WEBVTT - Signs You’re A Beta Mum & How To ‘Bounce Back’

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to Parenting out Loud, the podcast for parents who

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<v Speaker 1>don't always listen to parenting podcasts. Instead, we talk about

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<v Speaker 1>kind of the news and the trends and the culture

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<v Speaker 1>and what parents are thinking about. Amelia Lester, it's so

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<v Speaker 1>good to see you.

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<v Speaker 2>Hime On's I love your buttery yellow very.

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<v Speaker 1>Entrend joining us as well today our beautiful prego clestevens

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<v Speaker 1>she's ready.

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<v Speaker 3>Hello. I'm like, oh, no ah, we on YouTube. That's okay,

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<v Speaker 3>I'm used to it. I have to just block it out.

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<v Speaker 1>You do you do? This is your life now? You

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<v Speaker 1>flog your face for money? Yes, okay? Coming up today.

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<v Speaker 2>If you refuse to salt your kids socks or drive

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<v Speaker 2>them to one thousand and one extracurriculars, you might just

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<v Speaker 2>be a beta mum. Here's why parents are suddenly embracing

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<v Speaker 2>the label of underachiever.

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<v Speaker 1>How quick is too quick to return to work after

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<v Speaker 1>a baby? Well that all depends, I guess. But I

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<v Speaker 1>want to talk about an Ossie Netbauler, who's copped a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of flak this week for getting back on the

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<v Speaker 1>court after ten weeks.

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<v Speaker 3>And the low key genius parenting and grandparenting hacks we

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<v Speaker 3>didn't notice. As kids, we didn't realize what was happening.

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<v Speaker 2>But first one of the greatest artists of our time

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<v Speaker 2>is copying flak for being proud of her children. This

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<v Speaker 2>is the world we live in. Beyonce is a co

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<v Speaker 2>chair of this year's MET gala, and she bought along

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<v Speaker 2>to the gala her fourteen year old daughter with jay

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<v Speaker 2>Z Blue Ivy Carter. The MET rules say, incidentally, you

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<v Speaker 2>have to be eighteen to attend, but Beyonce wasn't the

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<v Speaker 2>only celebrity who got an exemption there. Nicole Kidman bought

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<v Speaker 2>her seventeen year old Sunday Rose Urban with her as well. Anyway,

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<v Speaker 2>Beyonce was asked a question related to the theme of

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<v Speaker 2>the gala, which was fashion is Art, and her answer

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<v Speaker 2>was very sweet, or so I thought, Is.

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<v Speaker 1>There one piece of art that has changed your life?

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<v Speaker 2>I would say my children?

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<v Speaker 3>Your children, yet more time my children. Oh yeah, the.

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<v Speaker 2>Greatest work of barthe So. Beyonce has said similar things before.

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<v Speaker 2>In twenty sixteen, she said that, out of everything I've accomplished,

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<v Speaker 2>my proudest moment, hands down, was when I gave birth

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<v Speaker 2>to my daughter Blue. So far, so good. Victoria Beckham's

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<v Speaker 2>made similar comments. Even Hillary Clinton makes a point of

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<v Speaker 2>describing herself on social media as a mother and a

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<v Speaker 2>grandmother first. So I'm kind of wondering whether this should

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<v Speaker 2>even be controversial because obviously successful.

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<v Speaker 1>What are people saying? How is this possibly controversial? Unless

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<v Speaker 1>you're a scientist, in which case I would see how

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<v Speaker 1>you would say, Actually, it's not art, it's science to

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<v Speaker 1>have a baby. What are people saying?

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<v Speaker 2>That's not what they're mad about? Bonds. People are mad

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<v Speaker 2>because they say Beyonce is an amazing musician and singer

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<v Speaker 2>and songwriter and performer, and she say that she's most

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<v Speaker 2>proud of her career. This is in the various dark

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<v Speaker 2>corners of the Internet where people lurk and share such opinions.

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<v Speaker 3>I think people are mad because when you watch the

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<v Speaker 3>grabs from that Red Carpet, so many celebrities were asked

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<v Speaker 3>for their favorite piece of art, and none of them

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<v Speaker 3>could name a piece of art that Gigi had did

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<v Speaker 3>one where she just goes round and round in circles,

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<v Speaker 3>being like, oh, just you know, like original.

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<v Speaker 2>I think it's giving Russell brand with a Bible.

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<v Speaker 3>Yes, yes, I think Beyonce could not think of a

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<v Speaker 3>piece of art. And I think quick bloody thinking being like, Oka,

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<v Speaker 3>my daughter good, that was was It was clutch.

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<v Speaker 2>Also, she probably wasn't like completely with it, because whenever

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<v Speaker 2>I take my children anywhere, I'm always like pretty distracted

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<v Speaker 2>and worrying that they're going to make some sort of scene. Now,

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<v Speaker 2>obviously Blue Ivy Carter is older than my children. It

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<v Speaker 2>would be a nightmare to take a six year old.

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<v Speaker 2>Had an eight year olds to the mcgarala.

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<v Speaker 3>Can be clear on that fourteen year old liability?

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<v Speaker 1>You know, Yeah, I'm pro. I'm pro what Beyonce said.

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<v Speaker 1>I think like anyone can pick up a guitar and

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<v Speaker 1>just go bittling them, but no one like not everyone

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<v Speaker 1>can grow a human out of like their own tissue.

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<v Speaker 3>I agree, agree, and I think most people would say

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<v Speaker 3>what she said in terms of I always find it

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<v Speaker 3>fascinating that, no matter what someone's achieved, you get to

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<v Speaker 3>the end of your life and you'll always say it

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<v Speaker 3>was the people.

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<v Speaker 4>I'll say this podcast, Oh wow, thanks Amelia Poet.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, A big part of this job, Claire, if you're

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<v Speaker 1>not sure, if you're not short, the remit is here

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<v Speaker 1>today is we bring often important cultural phrases from the

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<v Speaker 1>Internet and famously Stacy Hicks, who's not here today. She

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<v Speaker 1>brought six seven to this show month before it hit

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<v Speaker 1>the school yard.

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<v Speaker 2>I got to tell my children about six seven and

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<v Speaker 2>then regret it. Yep.

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<v Speaker 1>And then, infamously, a few weeks ago, Amerelya brought the

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<v Speaker 1>phrase low canuinely, which has not hit a single school

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<v Speaker 1>yard or anything so far. So we've got one hit,

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<v Speaker 1>we've got one fail. Now it's my turn to bring one,

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<v Speaker 1>if I may, I present to you both from the

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<v Speaker 1>comments in TikTok and from the comments in Instagram, you

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<v Speaker 1>the birthday? Yeah, okay, I seeing this?

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<v Speaker 2>Is this just a way of saying happy birthday?

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<v Speaker 1>No? No, oh, Claire, you know it. She knows it.

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<v Speaker 2>I know it.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm young and hip and cool and down with the kid.

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<v Speaker 2>I think Claire spends a lot of time on TikTok.

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<v Speaker 3>I spend way too much time on tik So.

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<v Speaker 2>What is it? Tell me?

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<v Speaker 1>Basically, you're the main character. Hooray for you. Everyone's so

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<v Speaker 1>happy that you're here because you're like the main event.

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<v Speaker 1>Is that, right, Claire?

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<v Speaker 2>Right?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah?

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<v Speaker 2>Okay? Good?

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<v Speaker 3>And so apparently it came It's come from a song

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<v Speaker 3>by Han x Ho. I don't know who that person is.

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<v Speaker 3>But it's a song called Birthday Girl, and the lyrics

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<v Speaker 3>are like she eat she the birthday, and then there's

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<v Speaker 3>a pause and he says girl. So it's like she

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<v Speaker 3>eats she the birthday, she's eating cake, or I think

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<v Speaker 3>like she eat in like a she slayed.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, And then apparently there are variations of this. It's

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<v Speaker 3>a whole language because it's like, you didn't get the joke.

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<v Speaker 3>You the after party, you behind you, the belated birthday,

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<v Speaker 3>You're a mess, You're the confetti. Oh okay, Yeah, you

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<v Speaker 3>should start talking to your kids like that, both of you. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>I'd appreciate it.

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<v Speaker 1>So when Stacy sent through her holiday picks to us,

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<v Speaker 1>we said, you look so happy and he looks so great.

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<v Speaker 1>We should have said you to birthday.

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<v Speaker 3>She would have loved that.

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<v Speaker 1>A little gear change. Now, there's a bounce back story

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<v Speaker 1>that came out this week that I wanted to talk

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<v Speaker 1>about with you both today because Paige Hadley she's, if

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<v Speaker 1>you don't know, an Australian netballer. She's former vice captain

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<v Speaker 1>of the Australian Diamonds. She plays for the Swifts and

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<v Speaker 1>she returned to the court last weekend fittingly on Mother's Day,

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<v Speaker 1>ten weeks after the birth of her first child, Tully No.

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<v Speaker 2>Ten weeks ten.

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<v Speaker 1>Wow. Yeah. So, first of all, congratulations to Paige Hadley,

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<v Speaker 1>Congratulations to the Swifts. Like when sporting teams have a baby,

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<v Speaker 1>the baby becomes part of the law. It's just a

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<v Speaker 1>lovely thing. But I think what makes this interesting is

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<v Speaker 1>that the range of reactions that we saw to a

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<v Speaker 1>bounce back story. A lot of people were saying, wow,

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<v Speaker 1>like that is amazing, congratulations that you're phenomenal. There was

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of.

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<v Speaker 2>Wow.

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<v Speaker 1>The pressure just never ends on women, like this is

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<v Speaker 1>a pressure cooker situation. She feels she has to go

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<v Speaker 1>back to work. You know, time is finite, especially when

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<v Speaker 1>you're a sports person, so imagine the pressure she's under

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<v Speaker 1>to get back on the court. And then there was

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of people who said, get off the court

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<v Speaker 1>and go and spend time with your baby. I just

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<v Speaker 1>wanted to bring it today and say, why what is

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<v Speaker 1>it about bounceback stories that make people feel so viscerally invested?

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<v Speaker 1>What is it about a woman going back to work

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<v Speaker 1>after ten weeks that gets people with big feelings?

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<v Speaker 3>We really do see it as a personal affront, like

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<v Speaker 3>that her going and playing netball says something about me

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<v Speaker 3>as a postpartum woman. And I'm really interested in this

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<v Speaker 3>because there's been commentary even in the last few months

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<v Speaker 3>about Margo Robbie and how she went and filmed Wuthering

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<v Speaker 3>Heights when she was postpartum and she doesn't really talk

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<v Speaker 3>about motherhood or she kind of is unmarked by having

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<v Speaker 3>become a mother in recent years, and some people find

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<v Speaker 3>that unfair and disingenuous and dishonest, and I just think

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<v Speaker 3>it's bizarre that we can't accept that pregnancy, birth postpartum

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<v Speaker 3>motherhood are going to be entirely different for different women,

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<v Speaker 3>depending on who you are.

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<v Speaker 2>But I think there is a kind of ideological battle

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<v Speaker 2>taking place as well. Obviously, yes, that's true, women should

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<v Speaker 2>do what's right for their bodies. But there's kind of

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<v Speaker 2>two schools of thought, I think, in terms of how

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<v Speaker 2>women return to both work and in these cases the

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<v Speaker 2>public eye. On the one hand, you have a Margo

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<v Speaker 2>Robbie who seems to have made a concerted decision not

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<v Speaker 2>to make motherhood part of her professional identity or brand,

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<v Speaker 2>and they're stealth mum, stealth mum, stealth mum. And then

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<v Speaker 2>you have Paige Hadley who returns to the court on

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<v Speaker 2>Mother's Day, it must have been aware that there's going

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<v Speaker 2>to be speculation and discussion around that, and in a way,

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<v Speaker 2>I think welcome to right. She was very matter of

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<v Speaker 2>fact and open about the fact that she was returning

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<v Speaker 2>after having a baby. I don't think you'd describe that

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<v Speaker 2>as stealth mumbing. In fact, I think a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>those women want to be able to talk about it

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<v Speaker 2>so that they can kind of normalize returning to work.

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<v Speaker 2>And I think both those camps can make an argument

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<v Speaker 2>that what they're doing is helping other women, because the

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<v Speaker 2>margat Robbies will say, well, what does having a baby

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<v Speaker 2>have to do with me making a movie? And the

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<v Speaker 2>page Hadley's will say, I want to normalize mothers being

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<v Speaker 2>out there in the world and engaging at the highest

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<v Speaker 2>levels in their professional capacity. So I think there is

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<v Speaker 2>an ideological strain to it, because you kind of unfortunately,

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<v Speaker 2>any woman who has a baby is going to have

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<v Speaker 2>to make is going to have to have to navigate

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<v Speaker 2>that and therefore make some kind of statement, whether she

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<v Speaker 2>wants to or not.

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<v Speaker 1>Right once, Yeah, you can't escape it, you can't. But

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<v Speaker 1>the double standard is really striking and that's what Paige

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<v Speaker 1>Hadley said. She said, no one says this to my partner,

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<v Speaker 1>so why should they say it to me? And we

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<v Speaker 1>certainly do treat mums that choose to go back to

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<v Speaker 1>work after a baby as a moral decision, and we

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<v Speaker 1>treat dads completely differently, like it's a financial, responsible, a

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<v Speaker 1>logistical thing for them. It's like we accept it on

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<v Speaker 1>one hand and not on another. And it's just really curious.

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<v Speaker 1>But I think the other point, the other interesting part

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<v Speaker 1>of this is kind of what you were saying, Claire,

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<v Speaker 1>about how it's almost never about Paige Hadley or the

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<v Speaker 1>person that's bouncing back. It's always about us, right, Because

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<v Speaker 1>what's curious is that even though like I read this

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<v Speaker 1>story and intellectually I got it, I was like, great,

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<v Speaker 1>she had a team of people around her, she was

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<v Speaker 1>doing physio, she has support structures, she has all of

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<v Speaker 1>this around her to enable her to return to work.

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<v Speaker 1>So it's a really structured, sensible decision. It's her decision

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<v Speaker 1>and all of that. There's this tiny part of me

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<v Speaker 1>that despite all of that, thought what was I doing

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<v Speaker 1>at ten weeks? And the answer to that is wearing

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<v Speaker 1>an adult nappy and crying on a park bench, and

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<v Speaker 1>I think that that's the essence of these stories. And

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<v Speaker 1>this is why these stories travel is because people just

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<v Speaker 1>see it as comparison. Like we live in this comparison culture.

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<v Speaker 1>I think women are assessed all the time, from the

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<v Speaker 1>time they're little on how they look.

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<v Speaker 2>Like.

0:12:28.080 --> 0:12:30.760
<v Speaker 1>Women are so used to being measured, right, We're measured

0:12:30.760 --> 0:12:33.320
<v Speaker 1>on our bodies or our ambition in our careers, the

0:12:33.400 --> 0:12:36.920
<v Speaker 1>choices we make in motherhood, and so when another woman

0:12:37.000 --> 0:12:40.959
<v Speaker 1>does something that's so extraordinary as this, we can't help

0:12:41.080 --> 0:12:44.680
<v Speaker 1>but compare ourselves to it. So I think that's why

0:12:44.720 --> 0:12:48.320
<v Speaker 1>these stories go crazy, is because it's never about the

0:12:48.360 --> 0:12:50.719
<v Speaker 1>actual person. It's just about the feelings that it kind

0:12:50.720 --> 0:12:51.680
<v Speaker 1>of evokes in us.

0:12:51.800 --> 0:12:54.520
<v Speaker 2>But there is also a visual element, like you mentioned

0:12:54.520 --> 0:12:57.040
<v Speaker 2>the double standard for men and women, and I guess

0:12:57.080 --> 0:13:00.200
<v Speaker 2>Paige Hadley mentioned that too, and that's absolutely fair. But

0:13:00.960 --> 0:13:04.360
<v Speaker 2>women are the ones whose bodies have been put through

0:13:04.400 --> 0:13:07.520
<v Speaker 2>this thing, and so part of what other women are

0:13:07.559 --> 0:13:12.160
<v Speaker 2>doing is sort of looking to see because there's visual

0:13:12.280 --> 0:13:15.160
<v Speaker 2>and physical reminders of what you've been through and you

0:13:15.240 --> 0:13:16.960
<v Speaker 2>want to check where the other women are going through

0:13:17.000 --> 0:13:19.880
<v Speaker 2>the same thing. I don't think that's so nefarious.

0:13:19.440 --> 0:13:24.800
<v Speaker 3>But I think our anger is misplaced. Like do women

0:13:25.160 --> 0:13:29.640
<v Speaker 3>Do a lot of women feel like they aren't given

0:13:29.720 --> 0:13:32.800
<v Speaker 3>the grace they wish they were given postpartum?

0:13:33.280 --> 0:13:33.559
<v Speaker 2>Yes.

0:13:33.960 --> 0:13:36.440
<v Speaker 3>Do a lot of women feel like there is judgment

0:13:36.720 --> 0:13:40.920
<v Speaker 3>on them physically post birth? Yes? Do we feel like

0:13:41.120 --> 0:13:45.319
<v Speaker 3>sometimes we're forced back into work before we're ready, or

0:13:46.760 --> 0:13:49.079
<v Speaker 3>we're meant to erase all the signs that we had

0:13:49.080 --> 0:13:51.520
<v Speaker 3>a baby. We feel all those things. None of those

0:13:51.520 --> 0:13:56.120
<v Speaker 3>things are Paige Hadley's fault. They are patriarchy. They are

0:13:57.559 --> 0:14:03.200
<v Speaker 3>a structures, an absolutely huge system that underpins the way

0:14:03.200 --> 0:14:08.120
<v Speaker 3>that we live that makes us feel those things. But

0:14:08.160 --> 0:14:13.480
<v Speaker 3>it is such a big reminder that everybody's experiences are

0:14:13.679 --> 0:14:18.080
<v Speaker 3>entirely different. I'm this time round with pregnancy. I'm trying

0:14:18.080 --> 0:14:21.000
<v Speaker 3>to work out professionally what to say yes and no

0:14:21.120 --> 0:14:27.080
<v Speaker 3>to in the weeks months after birth, and it's impossible

0:14:27.600 --> 0:14:30.360
<v Speaker 3>to know. And you do judge yourself because I will

0:14:30.360 --> 0:14:34.160
<v Speaker 3>look around and see friends who are doing live television

0:14:34.200 --> 0:14:36.680
<v Speaker 3>a few weeks after giving birth, and I think I

0:14:36.720 --> 0:14:40.720
<v Speaker 3>couldn't have done that. I wasn't articulate. I don't know

0:14:40.760 --> 0:14:44.160
<v Speaker 3>what I would have said. But I also think there's

0:14:44.200 --> 0:14:45.960
<v Speaker 3>another element, and I don't know if either of you

0:14:46.080 --> 0:14:50.960
<v Speaker 3>experienced this. But the criticism that Paige Hadley got, which

0:14:51.120 --> 0:14:55.080
<v Speaker 3>was one of the veins of criticism, was she should

0:14:55.080 --> 0:14:56.800
<v Speaker 3>want to be with her baby. Why she out on

0:14:56.800 --> 0:15:01.440
<v Speaker 3>the netpat Court, I think there's something about giving birth

0:15:02.240 --> 0:15:06.520
<v Speaker 3>that makes you more ambitious, especially in the very very

0:15:06.600 --> 0:15:10.720
<v Speaker 3>very short term, where it's like, hold on one, I'm amazing.

0:15:11.040 --> 0:15:13.040
<v Speaker 3>I am more incredible than I ever thought that I

0:15:13.200 --> 0:15:17.480
<v Speaker 3>was physically. And two, time is finite, and I don't

0:15:17.480 --> 0:15:19.080
<v Speaker 3>have all the time in the world to do all

0:15:19.080 --> 0:15:20.800
<v Speaker 3>the things I want to do, so I should go

0:15:20.800 --> 0:15:22.800
<v Speaker 3>out and do all of them. Yeah, And it's like

0:15:23.440 --> 0:15:26.360
<v Speaker 3>there's also that experience of motherhood that I don't think

0:15:26.400 --> 0:15:28.040
<v Speaker 3>we talk about enough.

0:15:28.280 --> 0:15:32.360
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I love that, Claire. I think this is probably

0:15:32.360 --> 0:15:35.600
<v Speaker 1>two in house. But like having played basketball at that

0:15:35.720 --> 0:15:39.240
<v Speaker 1>level and had I had racial spawn give birth in

0:15:39.280 --> 0:15:42.880
<v Speaker 1>the year that I played with her. And there's also

0:15:42.920 --> 0:15:45.760
<v Speaker 1>a transition. You know, they talk about this term matrescence,

0:15:45.920 --> 0:15:48.400
<v Speaker 1>which is when you become a mother and you become

0:15:48.440 --> 0:15:52.960
<v Speaker 1>a new person. And the athletes that I've watched transition

0:15:53.080 --> 0:15:58.120
<v Speaker 1>through matrescns have come back with a hunger and a

0:15:58.240 --> 0:16:01.880
<v Speaker 1>desire like I had never seen before. And like a poise.

0:16:01.920 --> 0:16:08.680
<v Speaker 1>There's something about it that is really incredible to watch. Anyway,

0:16:08.760 --> 0:16:09.800
<v Speaker 1>that's just a side note.

0:16:10.000 --> 0:16:14.160
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, but I think like that is something that is

0:16:15.280 --> 0:16:18.880
<v Speaker 3>also a part of motherhood, and instead we see it

0:16:18.920 --> 0:16:22.000
<v Speaker 3>as purely self sacrifice and there's not there's other there's

0:16:22.040 --> 0:16:24.800
<v Speaker 3>other elements to it.

0:16:24.200 --> 0:16:26.800
<v Speaker 1>It's that feeling of if I'm going to be away

0:16:26.840 --> 0:16:29.400
<v Speaker 1>from my baby, I want to make every second count.

0:16:30.160 --> 0:16:33.960
<v Speaker 1>And yeah, it's really real. It's a real thing, guys.

0:16:34.040 --> 0:16:38.200
<v Speaker 3>There is the best thread on Reddit called what's something

0:16:38.240 --> 0:16:41.920
<v Speaker 3>your parents or grandparents did that you now realize was

0:16:42.000 --> 0:16:46.000
<v Speaker 3>low key genius parents? Such a cue And it's such

0:16:46.040 --> 0:16:50.160
<v Speaker 3>a good question because you really, especially when you become

0:16:50.200 --> 0:16:54.640
<v Speaker 3>a parent, you're like, oh, I know what was up

0:16:55.080 --> 0:16:58.880
<v Speaker 3>that was not just that was not like under the

0:16:58.960 --> 0:17:01.880
<v Speaker 3>right like you would. You're a genius. So some of

0:17:01.920 --> 0:17:05.359
<v Speaker 3>the top comments were as a child, bedtime was eight,

0:17:05.640 --> 0:17:07.520
<v Speaker 3>but my mom would let you leave the light on

0:17:07.640 --> 0:17:11.320
<v Speaker 3>until eight thirty if and only if you were reading.

0:17:11.920 --> 0:17:14.359
<v Speaker 3>And I love it because it's like you feel a

0:17:14.359 --> 0:17:16.639
<v Speaker 3>little bit naughty like staying up till late thirty, but

0:17:16.680 --> 0:17:19.200
<v Speaker 3>it's like your reading, which is exactly what your parent

0:17:19.240 --> 0:17:21.760
<v Speaker 3>wants you to do. There was another one that said

0:17:22.280 --> 0:17:24.760
<v Speaker 3>I was a worrisome and often scared child, and my

0:17:24.880 --> 0:17:27.199
<v Speaker 3>mum would manage my fear of bugs by telling me

0:17:27.280 --> 0:17:29.399
<v Speaker 3>that any bug I pointed out to her was a

0:17:29.440 --> 0:17:33.560
<v Speaker 3>baby bug. Baby spiders in the basement, baby bees outside,

0:17:33.680 --> 0:17:36.879
<v Speaker 3>even baby worms in the ground. I immediately lost my

0:17:36.960 --> 0:17:38.760
<v Speaker 3>fear of them, as I thought they were just little

0:17:38.800 --> 0:17:40.480
<v Speaker 3>babies whose parents were gone.

0:17:40.640 --> 0:17:42.920
<v Speaker 2>Okay, but I don't think this person lives in Australia,

0:17:43.040 --> 0:17:45.280
<v Speaker 2>because if you pointed out a huntsman and said that

0:17:45.440 --> 0:17:47.760
<v Speaker 2>was a baby, I would be more scared.

0:17:47.920 --> 0:17:50.960
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, or a baby snake. Oh, it's a baby snake,

0:17:51.000 --> 0:17:57.560
<v Speaker 3>and you go. I think children are so obsessed with bugs.

0:17:57.840 --> 0:18:03.040
<v Speaker 3>They're so obsessed with bloody and that is very, very cute.

0:18:03.640 --> 0:18:06.119
<v Speaker 3>There's another one that says my mum instilled a desire

0:18:06.160 --> 0:18:08.200
<v Speaker 3>to learn as a very young child. I would ask

0:18:08.240 --> 0:18:11.119
<v Speaker 3>her questions like how do birds fly? Or why is

0:18:11.119 --> 0:18:14.200
<v Speaker 3>the sky blue? She would respond, I don't know. Let's

0:18:14.200 --> 0:18:17.439
<v Speaker 3>stop by the library. Such good parenting and grab a

0:18:17.440 --> 0:18:20.439
<v Speaker 3>book on the topic. And she would then ask me

0:18:20.600 --> 0:18:22.920
<v Speaker 3>over the next few days, so how do birds fly?

0:18:23.080 --> 0:18:25.480
<v Speaker 3>And I would go off the fifteen minutes on all

0:18:25.480 --> 0:18:29.320
<v Speaker 3>the new facts I learned about birds, even beyond the flying.

0:18:29.680 --> 0:18:36.080
<v Speaker 1>Oh no, go away a pre mobile phone.

0:18:36.320 --> 0:18:39.880
<v Speaker 3>Yeah yeah, yeah, Now I'd be like ask chat JP

0:18:40.000 --> 0:18:41.399
<v Speaker 3>to a mate.

0:18:42.840 --> 0:18:45.200
<v Speaker 1>I tell my kids to ask Google all the time,

0:18:46.160 --> 0:18:49.359
<v Speaker 1>just ask the speaker. Yes, that's bad parenting.

0:18:49.480 --> 0:18:52.240
<v Speaker 3>Do you guys have any that your parents or grandparents

0:18:52.280 --> 0:18:53.960
<v Speaker 3>would do that you've just realized?

0:18:54.400 --> 0:18:58.119
<v Speaker 2>A genius one popped into my head, which is that

0:18:58.359 --> 0:19:02.480
<v Speaker 2>whenever I had trouble getting to my mom said, oh, look,

0:19:02.520 --> 0:19:05.560
<v Speaker 2>it doesn't matter, because just being in bed and being

0:19:05.640 --> 0:19:08.880
<v Speaker 2>still and resting your body is just as good as sleeping.

0:19:09.600 --> 0:19:12.280
<v Speaker 2>And now I realize how science back to that strategy

0:19:12.440 --> 0:19:16.240
<v Speaker 2>was because I was talking to a sleep expert recently

0:19:16.480 --> 0:19:19.800
<v Speaker 2>and she told me that the worst thing you can

0:19:19.840 --> 0:19:22.640
<v Speaker 2>do if you can't get to sleep is panic. Ah,

0:19:23.040 --> 0:19:25.159
<v Speaker 2>And she was like, look, I'd rather you just like

0:19:25.240 --> 0:19:28.040
<v Speaker 2>watch an episode of Friends and relax than like lying

0:19:28.040 --> 0:19:30.879
<v Speaker 2>in bed tossing and turning. And I feel like what

0:19:31.040 --> 0:19:33.119
<v Speaker 2>my mother was doing by saying that was just dialing

0:19:33.160 --> 0:19:35.480
<v Speaker 2>down the anxiety so that I could get to sleep.

0:19:35.720 --> 0:19:40.520
<v Speaker 3>Oh, they're so clever, the instincts that the parents have.

0:19:41.200 --> 0:19:45.880
<v Speaker 3>I remember growing up, my nan lived with us until

0:19:46.160 --> 0:19:50.720
<v Speaker 3>we were teenagers, and Mum would always say, I'll go

0:19:50.720 --> 0:19:53.040
<v Speaker 3>go check out. When we got home from school, she'd say,

0:19:53.040 --> 0:19:55.120
<v Speaker 3>go check on Nan, Go tell Nan about your day,

0:19:56.800 --> 0:19:59.800
<v Speaker 3>keep Nan company. It never occurred to me that Nan

0:20:00.880 --> 0:20:04.600
<v Speaker 3>was like caring for us, that she was babysitting.

0:20:04.040 --> 0:20:07.199
<v Speaker 2>Up framing that I'm going to steal. Is that like

0:20:07.320 --> 0:20:09.159
<v Speaker 2>because you felt important? Yeah?

0:20:09.240 --> 0:20:11.560
<v Speaker 3>I was like, I guess I'll just you know, be

0:20:11.680 --> 0:20:14.520
<v Speaker 3>a good person again. Go hang out with Nan, listen

0:20:14.560 --> 0:20:18.000
<v Speaker 3>to one of her crazy stories. And next minute I'm like, Oh,

0:20:18.040 --> 0:20:20.200
<v Speaker 3>that's how my mum got everything done when she had

0:20:20.240 --> 0:20:23.159
<v Speaker 3>four kids under two and a half, and she was

0:20:23.240 --> 0:20:26.720
<v Speaker 3>able to cook and clean and work and everything. It

0:20:26.840 --> 0:20:27.800
<v Speaker 3>was very very clever.

0:20:29.200 --> 0:20:33.919
<v Speaker 1>Mine's very basic but also genius is that when we

0:20:33.920 --> 0:20:40.000
<v Speaker 1>were kids, we would constantly try and find the Christmas presents,

0:20:40.200 --> 0:20:44.159
<v Speaker 1>Like we would go ransacking through the house trying to

0:20:44.160 --> 0:20:47.280
<v Speaker 1>find where they were hidden. And my mum hid them

0:20:47.560 --> 0:20:51.200
<v Speaker 1>in the box that the Christmas tree came in. Oh,

0:20:51.320 --> 0:20:53.320
<v Speaker 1>because no one's going to look like there's like a

0:20:53.480 --> 0:20:55.800
<v Speaker 1>giant box that it comes in. And they were all

0:20:55.840 --> 0:21:00.240
<v Speaker 1>in there, and I have stolen it for myself. Thank you.

0:21:00.240 --> 0:21:03.119
<v Speaker 3>You'd never look. You never look. Their most boring.

0:21:04.400 --> 0:21:08.320
<v Speaker 2>Yes, do you play fast and loose about your kids

0:21:08.320 --> 0:21:12.240
<v Speaker 2>safety on playground equipment? Maybe you chuck all the kid

0:21:12.320 --> 0:21:14.399
<v Speaker 2>socks into a basket and have them pick out two

0:21:14.480 --> 0:21:16.800
<v Speaker 2>each day, whether or not they match, just so you

0:21:16.800 --> 0:21:19.879
<v Speaker 2>don't have to sort them. Or when your kid complains

0:21:19.920 --> 0:21:24.000
<v Speaker 2>constantly about an extracurricular activity that you were dragging them to,

0:21:24.600 --> 0:21:27.920
<v Speaker 2>you just stop taking them, let them drop it. These

0:21:28.040 --> 0:21:30.720
<v Speaker 2>are all signs that you might be what the Wall

0:21:30.760 --> 0:21:34.119
<v Speaker 2>Street Journal this week called a beta mom. Can you

0:21:34.160 --> 0:21:36.640
<v Speaker 2>translate that for me, Claire into Australian parlance?

0:21:37.000 --> 0:21:39.160
<v Speaker 3>A beta mom, beta mom?

0:21:39.240 --> 0:21:42.800
<v Speaker 2>Thank you. The journal says that after decades where the

0:21:42.840 --> 0:21:46.040
<v Speaker 2>dominant expectation for high achieving parents was to kind of

0:21:46.080 --> 0:21:51.760
<v Speaker 2>intensively helicopter, a new generation of mums is saying enough already.

0:21:51.880 --> 0:21:55.080
<v Speaker 2>They are reclaiming date night, they are saying no to

0:21:55.160 --> 0:21:58.239
<v Speaker 2>schlepping to seventeen different after school activities, and they are

0:21:58.280 --> 0:22:01.320
<v Speaker 2>making peace with dirty dishes in the sink. And the

0:22:01.400 --> 0:22:04.760
<v Speaker 2>journal says that these little acts of giving up and

0:22:04.800 --> 0:22:09.240
<v Speaker 2>giving in are the beginnings of a low key feminist revolution,

0:22:09.480 --> 0:22:12.720
<v Speaker 2>which I'm here for mom's. I found this article kind

0:22:12.760 --> 0:22:15.639
<v Speaker 2>of confronting for reasons I want to unpack later. But

0:22:16.119 --> 0:22:18.400
<v Speaker 2>I immediately thought of you as what I think of as

0:22:18.440 --> 0:22:20.400
<v Speaker 2>a Taipei parent. I'm dying to know what you thought

0:22:20.400 --> 0:22:20.639
<v Speaker 2>of it.

0:22:21.040 --> 0:22:27.359
<v Speaker 1>Oh, I think beta mums or Beata mums is what

0:22:27.560 --> 0:22:32.800
<v Speaker 1>happens when millennial mums burn out, Like this is a normal,

0:22:33.160 --> 0:22:36.520
<v Speaker 1>natural correction to the parenting that we've been trying to do.

0:22:37.119 --> 0:22:39.800
<v Speaker 1>Because when I read this, I thought it made complete

0:22:39.800 --> 0:22:41.520
<v Speaker 1>sense to me. I wish I was a Beata mum.

0:22:42.040 --> 0:22:45.359
<v Speaker 1>We have a generation of kids who have been overparented,

0:22:45.440 --> 0:22:48.560
<v Speaker 1>and anxiety rates are through the roof. We have a

0:22:48.600 --> 0:22:51.840
<v Speaker 1>generation of parents who are all burnt out and who's

0:22:51.920 --> 0:22:55.119
<v Speaker 1>also anxiety rates are through the roof. No one is

0:22:55.160 --> 0:22:57.159
<v Speaker 1>having a good time in the way this is going.

0:22:57.520 --> 0:23:01.760
<v Speaker 1>Gentle parenting hasn't worked. Snowplow parenting hasn't worked. Helicopter parenting

0:23:01.960 --> 0:23:06.399
<v Speaker 1>has not worked. What's left just drop the bundle and

0:23:06.640 --> 0:23:11.040
<v Speaker 1>just opt out. And so when I read this, I sighed,

0:23:11.240 --> 0:23:13.879
<v Speaker 1>and I thought, yes, this is this is the natural

0:23:13.880 --> 0:23:17.000
<v Speaker 1>correction that we actually need. Because if you read the research,

0:23:17.119 --> 0:23:19.159
<v Speaker 1>and I know, don't don't snooze on me, But like

0:23:19.680 --> 0:23:22.280
<v Speaker 1>all these experts are saying this is what kids need,

0:23:22.320 --> 0:23:25.639
<v Speaker 1>they need less intensive parenting. They need to take more risks,

0:23:25.760 --> 0:23:28.640
<v Speaker 1>they need to build resilience in independence, and the way

0:23:28.680 --> 0:23:31.080
<v Speaker 1>to do it is like take your hands off the wheel,

0:23:31.160 --> 0:23:35.400
<v Speaker 1>parents take them off. And so I love that all

0:23:35.440 --> 0:23:38.200
<v Speaker 1>these mums are doing that, but I don't think it's

0:23:38.200 --> 0:23:42.600
<v Speaker 1>a feminist reclamation. I think it's that we're all burnt

0:23:42.600 --> 0:23:45.880
<v Speaker 1>out and it's like, we cannot keep this machine up anymore.

0:23:46.200 --> 0:23:51.320
<v Speaker 3>My reaction to this was, don't we all become beata mums?

0:23:51.960 --> 0:23:54.840
<v Speaker 3>I think we all start as outfit, being like I'm

0:23:54.840 --> 0:23:58.360
<v Speaker 3>going to be absolutely perfect earth mother, Like we all

0:23:58.400 --> 0:24:01.359
<v Speaker 3>have that for like about twenty five seconds and then

0:24:01.680 --> 0:24:05.359
<v Speaker 3>realize it's not possible. But I think this made me

0:24:05.359 --> 0:24:07.479
<v Speaker 3>feel good about myself because I was like, I have

0:24:07.520 --> 0:24:09.920
<v Speaker 3>a lot of I have a lot of issues with myself,

0:24:09.960 --> 0:24:12.359
<v Speaker 3>a lot of complaints I'd like to file, But I

0:24:12.400 --> 0:24:15.359
<v Speaker 3>think I'm a beata mum, and I do think it

0:24:15.440 --> 0:24:20.239
<v Speaker 3>is empowering my child. For example, at home, we have

0:24:21.080 --> 0:24:24.240
<v Speaker 3>the basket, and the basket is where all the toys

0:24:24.280 --> 0:24:28.000
<v Speaker 3>go in no order, and I refuse to organize them,

0:24:28.040 --> 0:24:29.959
<v Speaker 3>and I refuse it. There's all this stuff about like

0:24:30.200 --> 0:24:32.479
<v Speaker 3>you have to rotate toys and make sure that your

0:24:32.560 --> 0:24:35.480
<v Speaker 3>child gets expelled. I'm like, no. I read something once

0:24:35.520 --> 0:24:37.680
<v Speaker 3>that said the fewer the toys, the more they play.

0:24:37.800 --> 0:24:39.879
<v Speaker 3>I don't know if that's true, but I'm going by that.

0:24:40.680 --> 0:24:43.720
<v Speaker 3>But the fact that the basket is chaos means that

0:24:44.040 --> 0:24:46.560
<v Speaker 3>Matilda can pack away her own toys because there's no order.

0:24:46.720 --> 0:24:51.080
<v Speaker 3>I'm not upset she can. We no longer fold Matilda's clothes.

0:24:51.160 --> 0:24:53.639
<v Speaker 3>They get shoved into the drawer, and therefore she can

0:24:53.680 --> 0:24:55.800
<v Speaker 3>put her clothes away. She can get them in the morning.

0:24:56.000 --> 0:25:00.240
<v Speaker 3>I'm not bothered. And these things. I think sometimes we're

0:25:00.280 --> 0:25:04.639
<v Speaker 3>setting up household and we're setting up life in a

0:25:04.680 --> 0:25:09.520
<v Speaker 3>way that isn't child friendly, because we want like an

0:25:09.640 --> 0:25:12.399
<v Speaker 3>esthetic home. We want things to look nice. We want,

0:25:12.800 --> 0:25:16.399
<v Speaker 3>you know, on our child's birthday. I remember Matilda's first birthday.

0:25:16.440 --> 0:25:19.960
<v Speaker 3>I got her this gorgeous dress and within two seconds

0:25:20.000 --> 0:25:21.480
<v Speaker 3>there was kak all over it, and I was like,

0:25:21.520 --> 0:25:24.679
<v Speaker 3>this is the lesson I needed. We don't we don't try.

0:25:25.080 --> 0:25:28.120
<v Speaker 3>We set the bar on the floor. It's better for mum,

0:25:28.400 --> 0:25:31.000
<v Speaker 3>it's better for her. But I think it also depends

0:25:31.080 --> 0:25:36.400
<v Speaker 3>on your child, because I reckon there are children who

0:25:36.440 --> 0:25:40.239
<v Speaker 3>perhaps the children who are a lot better served with

0:25:40.320 --> 0:25:44.159
<v Speaker 3>like stricter routine and more predictability, and that sort of

0:25:44.160 --> 0:25:47.159
<v Speaker 3>thing that wouldn't respond well to the chaos of a

0:25:47.240 --> 0:25:49.280
<v Speaker 3>being a mum. But my child is just as chaotic

0:25:49.320 --> 0:25:50.879
<v Speaker 3>as I am, so we work really well together.

0:25:50.960 --> 0:25:53.880
<v Speaker 2>I think what's interesting is Mon's you mentioned that this

0:25:53.960 --> 0:25:57.439
<v Speaker 2>is sort of a pendulum response to, like a swing

0:25:57.520 --> 0:26:01.880
<v Speaker 2>back from helicopter parenting or intensive parenting. The journal article

0:26:02.240 --> 0:26:06.159
<v Speaker 2>has a theory as to why it's happening now, and

0:26:06.200 --> 0:26:10.720
<v Speaker 2>it's quite fascinating. It turns out that when women entered

0:26:10.760 --> 0:26:13.400
<v Speaker 2>the workforce in bigger numbers, and when women's labor force

0:26:13.440 --> 0:26:17.440
<v Speaker 2>participation rose, guess what happened at home? They started spending

0:26:17.640 --> 0:26:20.640
<v Speaker 2>more time with children, not less.

0:26:20.720 --> 0:26:22.560
<v Speaker 1>Oh right, because of the guilt factor.

0:26:22.720 --> 0:26:25.359
<v Speaker 2>Because of the guilt factor, and also because they were

0:26:25.440 --> 0:26:28.480
<v Speaker 2>high achieving they and they lived in a society where

0:26:28.520 --> 0:26:30.680
<v Speaker 2>they thought, well, I want my kids to be high

0:26:30.720 --> 0:26:32.840
<v Speaker 2>achieving and have good jobs too, so I'm going to

0:26:32.880 --> 0:26:34.960
<v Speaker 2>have to really make sure they do their homework and

0:26:35.000 --> 0:26:38.439
<v Speaker 2>go to their violin lessons and achieve in school. So

0:26:38.560 --> 0:26:41.440
<v Speaker 2>then what happened was a whole generation of women really

0:26:41.440 --> 0:26:43.520
<v Speaker 2>did burn out. Mons. I think you're right on that

0:26:43.680 --> 0:26:47.879
<v Speaker 2>and then what's happening now is the economy is volatile.

0:26:48.520 --> 0:26:51.520
<v Speaker 2>AI may or may not be coming for white collar jobs,

0:26:52.080 --> 0:26:54.840
<v Speaker 2>and these same high achieving women in the same high

0:26:54.880 --> 0:26:58.240
<v Speaker 2>achieving cohort are looking around going there are no guarantees anymore.

0:26:58.640 --> 0:27:01.760
<v Speaker 2>If my son or order goes to their violin lessons

0:27:01.840 --> 0:27:04.280
<v Speaker 2>every week, and if they get straight a's in school

0:27:04.520 --> 0:27:08.720
<v Speaker 2>and get into their top university choice, maybe that doesn't

0:27:08.760 --> 0:27:11.480
<v Speaker 2>even set them up for success because we don't know

0:27:11.560 --> 0:27:14.320
<v Speaker 2>what will be needed, what skills will be valued in

0:27:14.359 --> 0:27:17.879
<v Speaker 2>the new world that's emerging now. So that's the theory

0:27:17.960 --> 0:27:20.280
<v Speaker 2>as to why this is happening. Now.

0:27:20.880 --> 0:27:24.960
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's dystopian, but I had the same thought. I'm

0:27:24.960 --> 0:27:27.040
<v Speaker 1>playing Game of Life with my kids at the moment.

0:27:27.040 --> 0:27:30.600
<v Speaker 1>Have you heard of this game? They? Oh, my god, okay,

0:27:31.200 --> 0:27:33.600
<v Speaker 1>hard Pass. They found it in an op shop. I

0:27:33.640 --> 0:27:37.240
<v Speaker 1>was like, that sounds cool. It's this game where you

0:27:37.359 --> 0:27:40.680
<v Speaker 1>have to roll the dice and you play life, so

0:27:40.720 --> 0:27:43.199
<v Speaker 1>you have to get a college degree before you can

0:27:43.320 --> 0:27:46.879
<v Speaker 1>earn good money, and then you go around the track

0:27:46.920 --> 0:27:49.400
<v Speaker 1>and you get married and you have to have babies,

0:27:49.440 --> 0:27:52.959
<v Speaker 1>and then you save money and you retire, and every

0:27:53.000 --> 0:27:55.560
<v Speaker 1>time we play it, I just think, what, this is

0:27:55.640 --> 0:27:57.240
<v Speaker 1>not the model law of success anyway?

0:27:57.320 --> 0:27:59.000
<v Speaker 2>Is there negative gearing in this game?

0:27:59.560 --> 0:28:01.200
<v Speaker 1>I don't know. I never we never get that far

0:28:01.240 --> 0:28:03.800
<v Speaker 1>into it because you love it, and I'm just like,

0:28:03.880 --> 0:28:09.680
<v Speaker 1>but this is not how life is gonna work any anymore. Like, Yeah,

0:28:09.720 --> 0:28:13.440
<v Speaker 1>I think it's distopen but true. And it does seem

0:28:13.480 --> 0:28:14.240
<v Speaker 1>like a reaction to that.

0:28:14.760 --> 0:28:19.760
<v Speaker 3>I wonder if, like the the people who are mums

0:28:20.560 --> 0:28:25.240
<v Speaker 3>now have watched over the last decade or so, kind

0:28:25.240 --> 0:28:28.560
<v Speaker 3>of the generation above them who were mothers and have

0:28:28.840 --> 0:28:34.840
<v Speaker 3>watched how hard it's been and are sort of rebelling

0:28:34.920 --> 0:28:39.920
<v Speaker 3>against that. Like I know that, I've like I still

0:28:39.960 --> 0:28:41.840
<v Speaker 3>think about it. I think about it all the time.

0:28:41.880 --> 0:28:45.920
<v Speaker 3>I look at mums who work here and have three

0:28:46.000 --> 0:28:49.320
<v Speaker 3>kids and work really really demanding full time jobs, and

0:28:49.360 --> 0:28:52.680
<v Speaker 3>I think, I don't know how you die. I think

0:28:52.720 --> 0:28:54.960
<v Speaker 3>you are bloody incredible, and I don't know how your

0:28:55.040 --> 0:28:57.560
<v Speaker 3>pants are clean and your hair is washed.

0:28:57.440 --> 0:28:59.640
<v Speaker 2>Like, well, I think you should have clean pants? Can

0:28:59.680 --> 0:29:00.680
<v Speaker 2>we just I don't.

0:29:00.680 --> 0:29:04.400
<v Speaker 3>I've got I've got lunch on my parents today. But

0:29:05.200 --> 0:29:09.840
<v Speaker 3>I think we've seen that and we are rebelling against

0:29:09.880 --> 0:29:14.560
<v Speaker 3>that to some extent and realizing that the imperfection needs

0:29:14.640 --> 0:29:16.440
<v Speaker 3>to needs to be a part of it.

0:29:16.680 --> 0:29:19.480
<v Speaker 2>And that's in part because, as Mon's was getting to before,

0:29:19.560 --> 0:29:22.560
<v Speaker 2>that the research does back up the fact that intensive

0:29:22.680 --> 0:29:28.479
<v Speaker 2>parenting has contributed to the anxiety epidemic amongst young people.

0:29:29.240 --> 0:29:31.720
<v Speaker 2>There was a new research paper that came out in

0:29:31.760 --> 0:29:35.480
<v Speaker 2>Australia a couple of weeks ago which pointed to so

0:29:35.600 --> 0:29:39.680
<v Speaker 2>called cocooning of kids, which means that when kids have

0:29:39.960 --> 0:29:43.320
<v Speaker 2>a problem, parents tend to sort of wrap them up

0:29:43.320 --> 0:29:45.400
<v Speaker 2>in greze and sort of make sure that they don't

0:29:45.440 --> 0:29:47.560
<v Speaker 2>have to encounter the problem head on and that they

0:29:47.560 --> 0:29:49.760
<v Speaker 2>don't have to be hurt by the problem. And the

0:29:49.800 --> 0:29:53.680
<v Speaker 2>researchers were saying that that kind of cocooning does not

0:29:53.760 --> 0:29:57.120
<v Speaker 2>build resilience in kids. In fact, it does the exact opposite.

0:29:57.280 --> 0:29:59.200
<v Speaker 2>That said, I have some bad news because on the

0:29:59.240 --> 0:30:02.000
<v Speaker 2>one hand, you've got researchers on the other hand. The

0:30:02.040 --> 0:30:04.600
<v Speaker 2>top comment on the journal article is from a man

0:30:04.640 --> 0:30:08.280
<v Speaker 2>called Tommy oh No, and Tommy does not approve. He

0:30:08.360 --> 0:30:10.800
<v Speaker 2>does not approve. He says, you get one chance to

0:30:10.880 --> 0:30:13.920
<v Speaker 2>instill the right values and a work ethic in your children.

0:30:14.360 --> 0:30:16.720
<v Speaker 2>Teach them that nothing happens without hard work, and that

0:30:16.760 --> 0:30:18.000
<v Speaker 2>the world owes them nothing.

0:30:18.240 --> 0:30:20.560
<v Speaker 3>I say, Tommy, while you're on your phone, where are

0:30:20.560 --> 0:30:20.960
<v Speaker 3>your kids?

0:30:21.000 --> 0:30:22.680
<v Speaker 2>Mate? Where are your kids?

0:30:23.040 --> 0:30:24.200
<v Speaker 3>Get back to them.

0:30:24.560 --> 0:30:27.280
<v Speaker 1>That's not what. That's not the We're not saying beta

0:30:27.320 --> 0:30:30.280
<v Speaker 1>moms don't teach their kids' good values. We're saying they

0:30:30.280 --> 0:30:34.520
<v Speaker 1>don't optimize them. They don't put them in fourteen extracurricular

0:30:34.520 --> 0:30:37.880
<v Speaker 1>activities that they prioritize like rest.

0:30:37.960 --> 0:30:39.960
<v Speaker 2>It's a thing to prove slope from not folding a

0:30:40.040 --> 0:30:43.440
<v Speaker 2>laundry to just teaching the kids that murders. Okay, you

0:30:43.520 --> 0:30:46.040
<v Speaker 2>should know that monds. But for those who are not

0:30:46.120 --> 0:30:48.320
<v Speaker 2>interested in Tommy and what he has to say, which

0:30:48.400 --> 0:30:50.320
<v Speaker 2>I venture is probably most of the people listening to

0:30:50.360 --> 0:30:54.360
<v Speaker 2>this and you want to start embracing your beta mom self,

0:30:55.480 --> 0:30:59.719
<v Speaker 2>here's a fun little TikTok about some tips for how

0:30:59.760 --> 0:31:04.160
<v Speaker 2>to from the pov of you have a type ce mom. Okay,

0:31:04.200 --> 0:31:04.560
<v Speaker 2>so I know.

0:31:04.520 --> 0:31:06.440
<v Speaker 1>She's only three much, but I think for her first

0:31:06.440 --> 0:31:09.160
<v Speaker 1>birthday party it should be themed girls just want to

0:31:09.200 --> 0:31:09.680
<v Speaker 1>turn one?

0:31:09.920 --> 0:31:12.680
<v Speaker 4>You know, my bag, I haven't unpacked yet from spring break.

0:31:13.160 --> 0:31:15.280
<v Speaker 1>I think we have extra whites in there. What do

0:31:15.280 --> 0:31:17.040
<v Speaker 1>you feel is a nice way to say, do not

0:31:17.160 --> 0:31:18.560
<v Speaker 1>get us any more toys?

0:31:18.560 --> 0:31:20.240
<v Speaker 2>That make sounds or sing songs.

0:31:20.400 --> 0:31:22.760
<v Speaker 1>So I forgot a thought of the chicken? Could you

0:31:22.800 --> 0:31:23.560
<v Speaker 1>just pick some of them.

0:31:23.520 --> 0:31:24.240
<v Speaker 2>Up on your way home?

0:31:25.680 --> 0:31:28.200
<v Speaker 1>Oh, before you lea out, did you eat a laker

0:31:28.240 --> 0:31:29.160
<v Speaker 1>from the couchhown stairs?

0:31:29.200 --> 0:31:31.600
<v Speaker 2>I forgot to drive the new May What do we think?

0:31:31.760 --> 0:31:32.760
<v Speaker 1>It's so good?

0:31:33.080 --> 0:31:36.960
<v Speaker 2>It's so good? Mom's last question for you. You started

0:31:36.960 --> 0:31:39.680
<v Speaker 2>off by saying you loved this, but as a member

0:31:39.760 --> 0:31:43.000
<v Speaker 2>of the of the Christmas Moms of Australia facebook group,

0:31:43.040 --> 0:31:45.680
<v Speaker 2>I feel that we can we can typecast you as

0:31:45.680 --> 0:31:48.880
<v Speaker 2>perhaps not your average beta mom. Are you going to

0:31:48.920 --> 0:31:52.320
<v Speaker 2>start incorporating some of these more haphazard parenting techniques into

0:31:52.320 --> 0:31:53.520
<v Speaker 2>your everyday life.

0:31:54.000 --> 0:31:57.000
<v Speaker 1>Yes, And in my house we call it dropping the ball,

0:31:57.560 --> 0:32:00.840
<v Speaker 1>So Mom's dropped a bundle. I've dropped the But I

0:32:00.960 --> 0:32:03.720
<v Speaker 1>like the repackaging of it being beta mum and that

0:32:03.800 --> 0:32:05.640
<v Speaker 1>it's a trend, so I'll be using that from now on.

0:32:05.760 --> 0:32:08.000
<v Speaker 1>All Right, it's time for recommendations, where we bring you

0:32:08.040 --> 0:32:11.880
<v Speaker 1>the things we're watching, loving, buying, telling each other about Claire.

0:32:11.880 --> 0:32:15.720
<v Speaker 1>What have you got today? I have a very toddler

0:32:15.760 --> 0:32:19.920
<v Speaker 1>specific one. So I was sick of Matilda's clothes getting

0:32:20.200 --> 0:32:24.160
<v Speaker 1>ruined every time she ate, because asforementioned, I'm a beta mum,

0:32:24.560 --> 0:32:26.480
<v Speaker 1>so every time she ate, I was like, why is

0:32:26.520 --> 0:32:29.280
<v Speaker 1>this sauce all over that brand jumper? How does this

0:32:29.360 --> 0:32:29.960
<v Speaker 1>keep happening?

0:32:30.600 --> 0:32:34.800
<v Speaker 3>So in summer super easy, she just eats Tholly in

0:32:34.840 --> 0:32:40.840
<v Speaker 3>a nappy. However, winter not as easy. So I've rediscovered

0:32:40.880 --> 0:32:43.400
<v Speaker 3>these smocks that I had when she first started solids,

0:32:43.720 --> 0:32:45.240
<v Speaker 3>and they are so good for toddlers.

0:32:45.440 --> 0:32:47.320
<v Speaker 2>This is beta mumming so hard, sorry.

0:32:47.440 --> 0:32:52.560
<v Speaker 3>Little chomps, And so they are these smocks makes there's

0:32:52.600 --> 0:32:56.400
<v Speaker 3>this mister Burns meme from The Simpsons where he's like

0:32:56.520 --> 0:32:59.000
<v Speaker 3>in this gown anyway, it looks exactly like that. So

0:32:59.320 --> 0:33:04.040
<v Speaker 3>full bodies mark so cute, like really soft, not stiff,

0:33:04.520 --> 0:33:07.640
<v Speaker 3>and you can literally rinse it. The most important part

0:33:07.720 --> 0:33:12.080
<v Speaker 3>it doesn't have that fricking little pocket. Yeah, that's so

0:33:12.360 --> 0:33:15.000
<v Speaker 3>many bibs have where it's like I don't want the

0:33:15.040 --> 0:33:17.360
<v Speaker 3>squishy food in the pocket for me to clear out.

0:33:17.800 --> 0:33:23.240
<v Speaker 3>Bibs are also useless because surface area is a lot

0:33:23.280 --> 0:33:29.000
<v Speaker 3>bigger than just under my child's chin. So these these

0:33:29.080 --> 0:33:33.160
<v Speaker 3>marks amazing and also good for like craft. Not that

0:33:33.200 --> 0:33:36.240
<v Speaker 3>we have done craft, but if we were a craft family,

0:33:36.520 --> 0:33:39.240
<v Speaker 3>I'm sure it would be lovely for painting, et cetera.

0:33:40.240 --> 0:33:43.680
<v Speaker 3>But really, says Matilda's clothes. They're about thirty dollars and

0:33:44.440 --> 0:33:46.959
<v Speaker 3>you don't need ten of them. You need one and

0:33:47.000 --> 0:33:47.800
<v Speaker 3>then just prints it.

0:33:48.760 --> 0:33:49.640
<v Speaker 2>I'm putting it on.

0:33:50.280 --> 0:33:53.440
<v Speaker 3>No, not at all, because it's quite comfortable and quite loose.

0:33:53.480 --> 0:33:54.600
<v Speaker 2>Fish. That's like I need one.

0:33:54.600 --> 0:33:57.000
<v Speaker 1>I'm a very messy Can I give you my bea

0:33:57.080 --> 0:34:00.200
<v Speaker 1>mum alternative? Yeah, I actually did this. This is profire

0:34:00.200 --> 0:34:00.680
<v Speaker 1>beta mum.

0:34:00.760 --> 0:34:01.360
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Is.

0:34:01.440 --> 0:34:03.440
<v Speaker 1>I also got sick of clothes getting ruined, so I

0:34:03.480 --> 0:34:05.400
<v Speaker 1>just took a tee towel and just cut a hole

0:34:05.400 --> 0:34:09.080
<v Speaker 1>in it and just would plot a tea towel over them. Yeah,

0:34:09.520 --> 0:34:12.040
<v Speaker 1>I was afraid. I didn't sew it. I just it

0:34:12.080 --> 0:34:14.840
<v Speaker 1>was just literally scissors in a tea towel. Done. But

0:34:14.880 --> 0:34:17.440
<v Speaker 1>then you've got to wash it. You do you do that,

0:34:18.120 --> 0:34:19.560
<v Speaker 1>you might as well be washing the clothes.

0:34:20.719 --> 0:34:24.239
<v Speaker 2>Reminds me of like back in BuzzFeed days, like there

0:34:24.280 --> 0:34:27.560
<v Speaker 2>was this trend of like bread in cats. You'd like

0:34:27.640 --> 0:34:29.840
<v Speaker 2>take a bit of out of a slice of brand

0:34:29.840 --> 0:34:31.560
<v Speaker 2>and put it over your cat's hand.

0:34:32.360 --> 0:34:34.239
<v Speaker 1>It's a little bit like that was a fun time

0:34:34.280 --> 0:34:34.920
<v Speaker 1>on the internet.

0:34:35.160 --> 0:34:36.120
<v Speaker 3>I miss that.

0:34:37.360 --> 0:34:39.839
<v Speaker 2>About the show you're recommending, because I've heard mixed things

0:34:39.880 --> 0:34:40.359
<v Speaker 2>about it.

0:34:40.680 --> 0:34:43.560
<v Speaker 1>Oh no, okay. So if you like Fisk and if

0:34:43.560 --> 0:34:46.319
<v Speaker 1>you like Utopia, so if you like Australian comedy, I've

0:34:46.320 --> 0:34:48.920
<v Speaker 1>got a new show. It's called Bad Company. It's on

0:34:49.040 --> 0:34:51.640
<v Speaker 1>the ABC and the best part about it is short

0:34:51.680 --> 0:34:56.000
<v Speaker 1>episodes and totally hilarious. But Anne Edmonds, who wrote it

0:34:56.400 --> 0:34:58.560
<v Speaker 1>and I think may have directed it, is the star

0:34:58.640 --> 0:35:01.520
<v Speaker 1>of it. And she is just so hilarious. She's just

0:35:01.600 --> 0:35:04.800
<v Speaker 1>the best. It's a fun, really easy, smooth brain thing.

0:35:04.680 --> 0:35:06.520
<v Speaker 2>To watch and what happens in it.

0:35:07.239 --> 0:35:10.719
<v Speaker 1>So it's a it's an artistic company that she's the

0:35:10.840 --> 0:35:14.120
<v Speaker 1>artistic director of. So she runs this small theater and

0:35:14.440 --> 0:35:17.560
<v Speaker 1>it's in total financial ruin because she keeps putting on

0:35:17.600 --> 0:35:24.759
<v Speaker 1>these like elaborate French kind of like long artistic visionary

0:35:24.880 --> 0:35:31.080
<v Speaker 1>plays and the people on the board are like, Margie,

0:35:30.680 --> 0:35:33.440
<v Speaker 1>you know your theater's like bankrupt. You've got to actually

0:35:33.560 --> 0:35:37.040
<v Speaker 1>put on like Grease with Sonya Kruger. And then they

0:35:37.120 --> 0:35:40.359
<v Speaker 1>send they second Kitty Flanagan as this kind of like

0:35:40.480 --> 0:35:43.840
<v Speaker 1>straight laced financial person to come in as the CEO

0:35:43.920 --> 0:35:46.799
<v Speaker 1>and like get her ship shape. So it's the classic

0:35:47.120 --> 0:35:52.920
<v Speaker 1>like artistry versus finance. It's very funny. Oh what have

0:35:52.960 --> 0:35:53.880
<v Speaker 1>you heard bad things?

0:35:53.920 --> 0:35:54.120
<v Speaker 3>Well?

0:35:54.160 --> 0:35:56.880
<v Speaker 2>I love fisks, so I've been asking everyone about it

0:35:56.920 --> 0:35:58.759
<v Speaker 2>because it's almost like I don't want to watch it

0:35:58.800 --> 0:36:02.040
<v Speaker 2>if it's bad, because again, I just love fisks so much.

0:36:02.160 --> 0:36:04.520
<v Speaker 2>And yeah, one holy rain right, I'm gonna out her.

0:36:04.600 --> 0:36:07.719
<v Speaker 2>She's she didn't like it. Oh, but I'm gonna give it.

0:36:07.760 --> 0:36:10.440
<v Speaker 2>I'm going to give it a shot. The reason I'm

0:36:10.440 --> 0:36:12.200
<v Speaker 2>going to give it a shot and report back here.

0:36:12.520 --> 0:36:16.279
<v Speaker 3>Kitty Flunnagan can do absolutely no wrong. Is so good,

0:36:16.640 --> 0:36:19.160
<v Speaker 3>is my opinion. Holly, we all.

0:36:19.000 --> 0:36:20.400
<v Speaker 1>Know she's a little bit cuckoo.

0:36:20.640 --> 0:36:22.439
<v Speaker 3>We don't want to say it outside of this room,

0:36:22.800 --> 0:36:23.879
<v Speaker 3>but I don't trust it.

0:36:24.360 --> 0:36:27.560
<v Speaker 2>There's a lot of tension between them moms. Actually there's

0:36:27.560 --> 0:36:30.680
<v Speaker 2>some out loud gossip. That was a joke. Everyone, Okay,

0:36:30.719 --> 0:36:34.600
<v Speaker 2>this is the most beta mom thing. I think I

0:36:34.600 --> 0:36:37.799
<v Speaker 2>could recommend. Ce lest Barber has a beauty range, and

0:36:37.840 --> 0:36:41.320
<v Speaker 2>I feel like Celess Barber's whole kind of vibe vibe

0:36:41.560 --> 0:36:44.600
<v Speaker 2>is beta mum, and the beauty range is called Booie

0:36:44.640 --> 0:36:45.960
<v Speaker 2>b o o i E.

0:36:46.080 --> 0:36:50.560
<v Speaker 4>It's available at Woolies. I love a sneaky beauty Hall

0:36:50.680 --> 0:36:52.960
<v Speaker 4>at Woolies. Yeah, because you can do it while you're

0:36:52.960 --> 0:36:55.640
<v Speaker 4>picking up objectively boring things, but then feel like you're

0:36:55.640 --> 0:36:56.840
<v Speaker 4>giving yourself a little treat.

0:36:56.920 --> 0:36:57.760
<v Speaker 3>It's really fun.

0:36:58.239 --> 0:37:01.760
<v Speaker 2>And she has a thing called Slient BB Cream remember

0:37:01.840 --> 0:37:04.080
<v Speaker 2>BB creams what everywhere cream?

0:37:04.080 --> 0:37:04.840
<v Speaker 3>I forget that.

0:37:05.000 --> 0:37:07.480
<v Speaker 2>It was originally a K beauty thing, and the idea

0:37:07.560 --> 0:37:09.399
<v Speaker 2>was that it was meant to do everything at once,

0:37:09.480 --> 0:37:11.759
<v Speaker 2>like it was your foundation, it was your moisturizer, it

0:37:11.760 --> 0:37:14.800
<v Speaker 2>was your hydrator, your illuminator, and they kind of went away,

0:37:15.360 --> 0:37:18.080
<v Speaker 2>and I think that Celeste has done a good thing

0:37:18.160 --> 0:37:21.799
<v Speaker 2>by bringing them back, because what this product is for

0:37:22.680 --> 0:37:27.160
<v Speaker 2>is on Saturday morning, just hypothetically speaking, you do have

0:37:27.239 --> 0:37:32.920
<v Speaker 2>to go to a children's sporting activity. Mons knows more

0:37:32.920 --> 0:37:35.040
<v Speaker 2>about sports or the PA, but you have to go

0:37:35.040 --> 0:37:37.040
<v Speaker 2>to all the park, you know that kind of thing.

0:37:37.120 --> 0:37:39.080
<v Speaker 2>And it's a little bit earlier than you'd want to

0:37:39.080 --> 0:37:42.000
<v Speaker 2>be out and about on a Saturday. You don't quite know.

0:37:42.280 --> 0:37:44.200
<v Speaker 2>Can you get away with the tracky decks, You need

0:37:44.239 --> 0:37:46.840
<v Speaker 2>to put on jeans. It's that kind of vibe. But

0:37:47.000 --> 0:37:50.040
<v Speaker 2>you just want to look like a little bit more

0:37:50.480 --> 0:37:51.279
<v Speaker 2>happy to be there.

0:37:51.680 --> 0:37:53.880
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, you don't want to look deal because it it

0:37:54.040 --> 0:37:54.840
<v Speaker 3>upsets people.

0:37:55.080 --> 0:37:57.279
<v Speaker 2>Well, yeah, and you see them recoiling from you, and

0:37:57.320 --> 0:37:59.960
<v Speaker 2>you just don't want that anymore. So you put this

0:38:00.120 --> 0:38:03.000
<v Speaker 2>some bb cream on and you can seriously do it

0:38:03.320 --> 0:38:06.600
<v Speaker 2>with one hand without a mirror as you are running

0:38:06.600 --> 0:38:09.040
<v Speaker 2>out the door shouting at your child to put his

0:38:09.120 --> 0:38:12.120
<v Speaker 2>sneakers on, just because I mean, I obviously wouldn't shout

0:38:12.120 --> 0:38:13.680
<v Speaker 2>at a child and tell them to what they sneakers

0:38:13.680 --> 0:38:16.320
<v Speaker 2>And you're meant to walk up to them gently place

0:38:16.360 --> 0:38:18.880
<v Speaker 2>a hand on their shoulder and say, have you considered

0:38:18.920 --> 0:38:21.480
<v Speaker 2>putting on footwear? But you know, if you were doing that,

0:38:21.640 --> 0:38:23.760
<v Speaker 2>it's a good beauty product for that kind of vibe.

0:38:23.960 --> 0:38:25.280
<v Speaker 1>And is it tinted?

0:38:25.600 --> 0:38:28.040
<v Speaker 2>It's yeah, it's tinted. It comes in a few different shades.

0:38:28.520 --> 0:38:30.080
<v Speaker 1>It hasn't got sunscreen in it.

0:38:30.200 --> 0:38:32.120
<v Speaker 2>Yeah it does. But you know, I think we all

0:38:32.239 --> 0:38:33.320
<v Speaker 2>know that you're not meant to use it.

0:38:33.440 --> 0:38:35.160
<v Speaker 1>Oh yes, okay, not rely on it.

0:38:35.360 --> 0:38:38.240
<v Speaker 3>But it's nice, a little bit of spire exactly.

0:38:38.360 --> 0:38:41.040
<v Speaker 2>It does be your in collagen and I've been saying

0:38:41.080 --> 0:38:42.880
<v Speaker 2>for a long time that I need to incorporate more

0:38:42.960 --> 0:38:45.759
<v Speaker 2>marine collagen into my every day and just checks that box.

0:38:45.920 --> 0:38:49.360
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, lovely, Well that's all we have time for today

0:38:49.360 --> 0:38:51.160
<v Speaker 1>on Parenting Out Loud, thank you for spending your time

0:38:51.200 --> 0:38:54.200
<v Speaker 1>with us. If you're watching on Apple Podcasts, thank you

0:38:54.360 --> 0:38:57.480
<v Speaker 1>for watching, and have a great week. Thank you very much.

0:38:57.560 --> 0:39:04.520
<v Speaker 1>Clear Stevens, Thanks Thanks. Momma acknowledges the traditional owners of

0:39:04.600 --> 0:39:06.680
<v Speaker 1>the land on which we have recorded this podcast.

0:39:10.640 --> 0:39:10.680
<v Speaker 3>H