1 00:00:10,614 --> 00:00:15,294 Speaker 1: You're listening to a Mamma Mia podcast. Mamma Mea acknowledges 2 00:00:15,334 --> 00:00:18,174 Speaker 1: the traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast 3 00:00:18,214 --> 00:00:21,814 Speaker 1: is recorded on Hi. I'm Claire Murphy. This is Muma 4 00:00:21,894 --> 00:00:25,294 Speaker 1: MIA's twice daily news podcast, The Quickie. On the weekend, 5 00:00:25,534 --> 00:00:28,494 Speaker 1: another school was bombed by Israeli forces in Gaza. 6 00:00:28,774 --> 00:00:32,414 Speaker 2: Mass leaders claim the strike hit a school in Gaza 7 00:00:32,494 --> 00:00:35,134 Speaker 2: City that was being used as a makeshift shelter, though 8 00:00:35,174 --> 00:00:37,974 Speaker 2: Israel says it was targeting a Hamas command center. 9 00:00:38,094 --> 00:00:40,694 Speaker 1: Egypt and Katar are demanding an urgent investigation. 10 00:00:41,094 --> 00:00:44,214 Speaker 3: The US has said it is quote deeply concerned about 11 00:00:44,254 --> 00:00:44,694 Speaker 3: the strike. 12 00:00:45,094 --> 00:00:48,174 Speaker 1: Ten months into the war between Israel and Hamas, there 13 00:00:48,174 --> 00:00:50,894 Speaker 1: are still no signs of a ceasefire. There are still 14 00:00:50,934 --> 00:00:55,814 Speaker 1: Palestinian civilians dying every day, tensions are increasing with other countries, 15 00:00:56,014 --> 00:00:59,014 Speaker 1: and the US still sends Israel the munitions it needs 16 00:00:59,054 --> 00:01:01,414 Speaker 1: to keep its war efforts going. So what will be 17 00:01:01,454 --> 00:01:04,014 Speaker 1: the change before we find out where we stand in 18 00:01:04,014 --> 00:01:06,454 Speaker 1: this nearly year old war. Let's get the latest from 19 00:01:06,454 --> 00:01:10,614 Speaker 1: the Quikie newsroom. Tuesday, August thirteenth. ID system that's like 20 00:01:10,654 --> 00:01:13,254 Speaker 1: a digital thumbs up from the government, confirming who you 21 00:01:13,334 --> 00:01:17,534 Speaker 1: are is hoping to better protect Australian documents. Government Services 22 00:01:17,574 --> 00:01:20,254 Speaker 1: Minister Bill Shorten will tell the National Press Club today 23 00:01:20,294 --> 00:01:23,894 Speaker 1: about a world leading project called Trust Exchange, which would 24 00:01:23,974 --> 00:01:26,894 Speaker 1: eliminate the need for Australians to hand over multiple forms 25 00:01:26,934 --> 00:01:30,254 Speaker 1: of sensitive ID by instead allowing them to verify their 26 00:01:30,294 --> 00:01:33,334 Speaker 1: information held by the government. Mister Shorton saying it could 27 00:01:33,374 --> 00:01:35,654 Speaker 1: be used for things like applying for jobs or renting 28 00:01:35,694 --> 00:01:38,974 Speaker 1: a property. With Australians caught up in several major data 29 00:01:38,974 --> 00:01:42,094 Speaker 1: breaches in recent years, it may offer an alternative to 30 00:01:42,134 --> 00:01:46,174 Speaker 1: having your sensitive information stored on multiple companies servers, mister 31 00:01:46,214 --> 00:01:48,814 Speaker 1: Shorton saying all that has been exchanged is a digital 32 00:01:48,814 --> 00:01:51,374 Speaker 1: thumbs up from the Government confirming that you are who 33 00:01:51,414 --> 00:01:54,454 Speaker 1: you say you are. Former Prime Minister Scott Morrison is 34 00:01:54,454 --> 00:01:57,334 Speaker 1: said to give evidence of the defamation trial Liberal Senator 35 00:01:57,374 --> 00:02:00,974 Speaker 1: Linda Reynolds is currently bringing against former staff of Britney Higgins. 36 00:02:01,374 --> 00:02:04,574 Speaker 1: Senator Reynolds is suing Higgins over social media posts that 37 00:02:04,654 --> 00:02:08,694 Speaker 1: she claims impacted her reputation. Mister Morrison is expected to 38 00:02:08,734 --> 00:02:11,774 Speaker 1: take to the witness stand today to answer questions about 39 00:02:11,774 --> 00:02:14,214 Speaker 1: what he was told by the senator about the alleged 40 00:02:14,294 --> 00:02:18,214 Speaker 1: rape of Britney Higgins and when Senator Reynolds's partner, Robert Reid, 41 00:02:18,254 --> 00:02:21,374 Speaker 1: gave evidence yesterday, saying the whole saga has had an 42 00:02:21,414 --> 00:02:25,014 Speaker 1: immeasurable impact on both his partner and himself, saying his 43 00:02:25,174 --> 00:02:28,534 Speaker 1: daughter from his previous marriage initially didn't believe the Senator's 44 00:02:28,614 --> 00:02:31,694 Speaker 1: version of events, putting a strain on their relationship. He 45 00:02:31,774 --> 00:02:35,054 Speaker 1: also said that Senator Reynolds is now overlooked for opportunities 46 00:02:35,054 --> 00:02:39,134 Speaker 1: within the party, even to attend social occasions. The extreme 47 00:02:39,214 --> 00:02:42,174 Speaker 1: criticism of bail decisions made by the court in the 48 00:02:42,174 --> 00:02:45,654 Speaker 1: wake of Molly Ticehurst's murder could be why the remand 49 00:02:45,774 --> 00:02:49,374 Speaker 1: prisoner population is surging in New South Wales. More than 50 00:02:49,454 --> 00:02:52,454 Speaker 1: five thousand, seven hundred and sixty people are in prison 51 00:02:52,494 --> 00:02:55,494 Speaker 1: awaiting a hearing as of June twenty twenty four, up 52 00:02:55,534 --> 00:02:58,294 Speaker 1: from the previous peak of four thousand, seven hundred and 53 00:02:58,294 --> 00:03:00,894 Speaker 1: thirty one in June last year. The New South Wales 54 00:03:00,934 --> 00:03:03,734 Speaker 1: Bureau of Crime Statistics and Research claimed the rise is 55 00:03:03,814 --> 00:03:06,974 Speaker 1: due to an increase in accused domestic violence offenders being 56 00:03:07,054 --> 00:03:10,134 Speaker 1: denied bail. A record one thousand, eight eight hundred and 57 00:03:10,134 --> 00:03:13,654 Speaker 1: eleven DV accused now on remand. While new laws came 58 00:03:13,694 --> 00:03:15,974 Speaker 1: in on July one, when the onus was placed on 59 00:03:16,134 --> 00:03:19,414 Speaker 1: serious domestic violence offenders to show the magistrate why they 60 00:03:19,454 --> 00:03:22,054 Speaker 1: should be released, it's not this that has been the 61 00:03:22,054 --> 00:03:24,854 Speaker 1: sole reason for the increase in those on remand, with 62 00:03:24,974 --> 00:03:28,374 Speaker 1: the spike tracked back to April after Molly Tyshurst was 63 00:03:28,494 --> 00:03:31,254 Speaker 1: killed in the central West town of Forbes, allegedly at 64 00:03:31,254 --> 00:03:33,614 Speaker 1: the hands of her former partner, who had recently been 65 00:03:33,694 --> 00:03:37,614 Speaker 1: grunted bail. The estate of singer Isaac Hayes is suing 66 00:03:37,654 --> 00:03:40,934 Speaker 1: Donald Trump for copyright infringement over the use of the 67 00:03:40,974 --> 00:03:43,574 Speaker 1: late Soul and Funk Stars hit hold On I'm Coming 68 00:03:43,614 --> 00:03:46,734 Speaker 1: at his campaign rallies. The estate filed papers for one 69 00:03:46,814 --> 00:03:50,174 Speaker 1: hundred and thirty four counts of copyright infringement between twenty 70 00:03:50,214 --> 00:03:53,054 Speaker 1: twenty two and twenty twenty four, and is seeking three 71 00:03:53,134 --> 00:03:56,774 Speaker 1: million dollars US in licensing fees. Hayes's son releasing a 72 00:03:56,814 --> 00:03:59,934 Speaker 1: statement saying they're demanding Trump cease using the song and 73 00:04:00,014 --> 00:04:02,534 Speaker 1: remove it from all related videos, and that failure to 74 00:04:02,574 --> 00:04:05,734 Speaker 1: do so would result in further legal action. Trump has 75 00:04:05,814 --> 00:04:08,254 Speaker 1: upset a list of musicians in the past for using 76 00:04:08,294 --> 00:04:11,934 Speaker 1: their songs without permission, including the Rolling Stones and Neil Young. 77 00:04:12,254 --> 00:04:15,694 Speaker 1: Celine Dion recently condemning the former president for using her 78 00:04:15,734 --> 00:04:18,534 Speaker 1: song My Heart Will go On at a rally in Montana, 79 00:04:18,654 --> 00:04:21,214 Speaker 1: calling on his campaign to stop using the song and 80 00:04:21,294 --> 00:04:24,294 Speaker 1: her likeness. That's what's going on in the world today. Next, 81 00:04:24,374 --> 00:04:27,214 Speaker 1: we check in on what's happening in Gaza as more 82 00:04:27,254 --> 00:04:31,094 Speaker 1: schools are targeted as Hamas strongholds, tensions flairing the North 83 00:04:31,134 --> 00:04:34,454 Speaker 1: with Hezbollah, and the US's tuned towards Israel ever so 84 00:04:34,574 --> 00:04:42,294 Speaker 1: slightly changes. In the early hours of Saturday morning, Palestinians 85 00:04:42,334 --> 00:04:45,134 Speaker 1: who'd sought refuge in a school complex in Gaza City 86 00:04:45,534 --> 00:04:49,694 Speaker 1: awoke to destruction. An Israeli airstrike, which the IDF has 87 00:04:49,734 --> 00:04:53,254 Speaker 1: confirmed was THEIRS, hit the Darage neighborhood in the east 88 00:04:53,254 --> 00:04:56,654 Speaker 1: of Gaza City, where thousands of people who've been displaced 89 00:04:56,694 --> 00:04:59,574 Speaker 1: since the start of the retaliation against Hamas stemming from 90 00:04:59,614 --> 00:05:02,774 Speaker 1: the October seven attack, have been trying to find anywhere 91 00:05:02,814 --> 00:05:06,134 Speaker 1: that is safe for them. As those people were slowly 92 00:05:06,174 --> 00:05:08,974 Speaker 1: awakening from their fitful sleep, washing off the dirt and 93 00:05:09,054 --> 00:05:11,854 Speaker 1: dust of their ruined city, saying their morning prayers at 94 00:05:11,854 --> 00:05:15,854 Speaker 1: the adjoining mosque, three missiles tore through the buildings, killing 95 00:05:15,894 --> 00:05:19,374 Speaker 1: more than ninety people, including women and children, although that 96 00:05:19,494 --> 00:05:23,494 Speaker 1: number remains unconfirmed. The UN says this is the twenty 97 00:05:23,574 --> 00:05:27,014 Speaker 1: first time Israel has targeted schools since July, and that 98 00:05:27,094 --> 00:05:29,694 Speaker 1: of the five hundred and sixty four schools in Gaza, 99 00:05:30,094 --> 00:05:32,814 Speaker 1: four hundred and seventy seven of them have been damaged 100 00:05:32,974 --> 00:05:37,174 Speaker 1: or completely destroyed. The justification from Israel for hitting such 101 00:05:37,174 --> 00:05:40,654 Speaker 1: a vulnerable target is that Islamic militants are hiding out 102 00:05:40,654 --> 00:05:44,614 Speaker 1: amongst civilians, that many of these schools actually Hamas command centers, 103 00:05:44,934 --> 00:05:47,134 Speaker 1: and that amongst the more than ninety people who died, 104 00:05:47,654 --> 00:05:50,654 Speaker 1: nineteen of them were Hamas and Islamic g Had fighters. 105 00:05:51,694 --> 00:05:54,854 Speaker 1: Many people have called this genocide, but some would say 106 00:05:55,014 --> 00:05:58,254 Speaker 1: this is war. So how do we draw the line? 107 00:05:58,334 --> 00:06:01,494 Speaker 1: Doctor Jessica Genauer is a senior lecturer in International relations 108 00:06:01,494 --> 00:06:05,974 Speaker 1: at Flinders University Jessica, South Africa. Back in December went 109 00:06:06,014 --> 00:06:08,454 Speaker 1: to the International Court of Justice to put forward the 110 00:06:08,494 --> 00:06:11,974 Speaker 1: case that Israel was committing genocide in Gaza. Turkey has 111 00:06:12,134 --> 00:06:14,294 Speaker 1: just recently joined them in backing the push to have 112 00:06:14,334 --> 00:06:17,014 Speaker 1: this recognized. But how do we make the call on 113 00:06:17,094 --> 00:06:20,054 Speaker 1: genocide in war? And what is justified in warfare. 114 00:06:20,414 --> 00:06:24,654 Speaker 3: Yeah, So with international law and the rules of law, 115 00:06:24,774 --> 00:06:28,414 Speaker 3: it's often less satisfying than we would like in terms 116 00:06:28,494 --> 00:06:34,654 Speaker 3: of having very clear definitions that can be applied in 117 00:06:34,774 --> 00:06:39,494 Speaker 3: terms of what behavior is considered acceptable or proportional in 118 00:06:39,574 --> 00:06:42,494 Speaker 3: terms of use of force in a military conflict. So 119 00:06:43,094 --> 00:06:46,494 Speaker 3: there's always some room for argument either way and some 120 00:06:46,734 --> 00:06:50,494 Speaker 3: room for interpretations. So certainly when we're looking at big 121 00:06:50,534 --> 00:06:56,054 Speaker 3: concepts like genocide, where really cases need to be made 122 00:06:56,134 --> 00:06:58,334 Speaker 3: and different elements that need to be met in order 123 00:06:58,374 --> 00:07:01,054 Speaker 3: for that definition to be applied. But even when we're 124 00:07:01,094 --> 00:07:04,774 Speaker 3: just looking at something like justifiable use of force in 125 00:07:04,814 --> 00:07:10,414 Speaker 3: a military conflict, it's again something where there's no one metric, 126 00:07:10,934 --> 00:07:14,214 Speaker 3: or to put it in brutal terms, there's no one 127 00:07:14,974 --> 00:07:18,734 Speaker 3: understanding around to use, probably not a good term, what 128 00:07:18,814 --> 00:07:21,614 Speaker 3: is an acceptable loss of life of civilians in order 129 00:07:21,654 --> 00:07:25,494 Speaker 3: to hit a military target, And there are no kind 130 00:07:25,534 --> 00:07:29,694 Speaker 3: of military situations where it's expected that no civilians will 131 00:07:29,774 --> 00:07:35,414 Speaker 3: ever bear some costs of that military conflict. But the 132 00:07:35,454 --> 00:07:39,694 Speaker 3: intention of actors engaged in a military conflict is supposed 133 00:07:39,774 --> 00:07:44,294 Speaker 3: to be that they are trying to absolutely minimize any 134 00:07:44,374 --> 00:07:47,054 Speaker 3: risk to civilian life. So that's where we can start 135 00:07:47,094 --> 00:07:53,014 Speaker 3: to ask questions, are these actions sufficiently taking precautions to 136 00:07:53,174 --> 00:07:56,294 Speaker 3: minimize any cost to civilian life. 137 00:07:56,494 --> 00:07:59,014 Speaker 1: So from the outside, we look at these air strikes 138 00:07:59,014 --> 00:08:02,574 Speaker 1: and think that doesn't seem an acceptable loss of life. 139 00:08:02,574 --> 00:08:04,814 Speaker 1: But in the international court of law, it might be 140 00:08:04,934 --> 00:08:08,774 Speaker 1: that their justification that they killed nineteen militants in that 141 00:08:08,854 --> 00:08:11,374 Speaker 1: strike and their target of this war has been that 142 00:08:11,374 --> 00:08:14,494 Speaker 1: they want to wipe out Hamas, that that essentially could 143 00:08:14,494 --> 00:08:15,294 Speaker 1: be justifiable. 144 00:08:15,574 --> 00:08:18,414 Speaker 3: Well, that's a question that I guess needs to be 145 00:08:19,094 --> 00:08:21,734 Speaker 3: investigated by people who know much more about international law 146 00:08:21,774 --> 00:08:24,534 Speaker 3: than I do. But as I said, this whole domain 147 00:08:24,814 --> 00:08:28,134 Speaker 3: can be kind of unsatisfying in the sense that each 148 00:08:28,294 --> 00:08:34,974 Speaker 3: country essentially determines their own parameters around what they consider 149 00:08:35,094 --> 00:08:41,134 Speaker 3: to be acceptable to civilians in trying to go after 150 00:08:41,214 --> 00:08:46,054 Speaker 3: military targets or eliminate military targets, whether that's you know, humans, 151 00:08:46,094 --> 00:08:52,454 Speaker 3: or whether that's military infrastructure and capabilities. Usually those rules 152 00:08:52,494 --> 00:08:55,774 Speaker 3: that states will essentially set themselves or state militaries will 153 00:08:55,814 --> 00:09:01,494 Speaker 3: set are not made transparent. They're considered part of military confidentiality. 154 00:09:02,094 --> 00:09:05,814 Speaker 3: We don't know exactly was it a mistake, what exactly 155 00:09:05,894 --> 00:09:09,254 Speaker 3: are the parameters around what is considered acceptable in those 156 00:09:09,294 --> 00:09:14,294 Speaker 3: types of situations, or in fact, was this a use 157 00:09:14,334 --> 00:09:17,694 Speaker 3: of force that ended up causing costs to civilians in 158 00:09:17,734 --> 00:09:19,454 Speaker 3: a way that was not anticipated. 159 00:09:21,214 --> 00:09:23,854 Speaker 1: Moving to the north, and tensions are continuing to rise 160 00:09:23,894 --> 00:09:27,814 Speaker 1: between Lebanon based Hesbelah and Israel. Now, these two parties 161 00:09:27,854 --> 00:09:30,894 Speaker 1: have a long history of tensions. The creation of Hesbelah 162 00:09:30,894 --> 00:09:34,414 Speaker 1: came after Israel invaded Lebanon in an attempt to eliminate 163 00:09:34,454 --> 00:09:38,334 Speaker 1: the PLO or Palestine Liberation Organization in the nineteen eighties. 164 00:09:39,174 --> 00:09:42,494 Speaker 1: Israel wouldn't withdraw from Lebanon for more than two decades, 165 00:09:42,814 --> 00:09:45,894 Speaker 1: and in that time Hesbelah grew in strength. The time 166 00:09:46,014 --> 00:09:50,374 Speaker 1: immediately after Israel's withdraw from Lebanon was relatively peaceful, marred 167 00:09:50,374 --> 00:09:53,974 Speaker 1: by the occasional isolated attack, but tensions fled again in 168 00:09:53,974 --> 00:09:58,534 Speaker 1: two thousand and six when two Israeli soldiers were kidnapped Hesbelah, 169 00:09:58,534 --> 00:10:01,174 Speaker 1: claiming they took them to use as bargaining chips to 170 00:10:01,214 --> 00:10:05,054 Speaker 1: have prisoners held in Israel released. The Israeli response would 171 00:10:05,094 --> 00:10:07,894 Speaker 1: see air strikes and a ground invasion which would claim 172 00:10:07,934 --> 00:10:11,414 Speaker 1: the lives of twelve hundred most civilian Lebanese people and 173 00:10:11,454 --> 00:10:14,934 Speaker 1: displacing more than one million others. One hundred and sixty 174 00:10:14,934 --> 00:10:17,974 Speaker 1: five Israelis were also killed, mainly from the military, and 175 00:10:18,054 --> 00:10:21,894 Speaker 1: five hundred thousand Israeli civilians were also displaced. In the 176 00:10:21,974 --> 00:10:24,774 Speaker 1: lead up to the October seven attack by Hamas in Israel, 177 00:10:25,054 --> 00:10:29,094 Speaker 1: the tensions between Hesbela and Israel had been continuing, mostly 178 00:10:29,134 --> 00:10:32,294 Speaker 1: in disputed areas along borders, including a piece of land 179 00:10:32,294 --> 00:10:35,454 Speaker 1: that is currently occupied by Israel after it was seized 180 00:10:35,494 --> 00:10:38,374 Speaker 1: in the closing stages of the nineteen sixty seven Six 181 00:10:38,454 --> 00:10:42,254 Speaker 1: Day War with Syria, the Golan Heights. It was in 182 00:10:42,294 --> 00:10:45,694 Speaker 1: this region on July twenty seven where twelve children playing 183 00:10:45,734 --> 00:10:48,654 Speaker 1: soccer were killed by an air strike. Now, no one 184 00:10:48,654 --> 00:10:51,974 Speaker 1: has taken responsibility for the attack, but it is widely 185 00:10:52,014 --> 00:10:55,974 Speaker 1: suspected to have been orchestrated by Hesbelah, increasing tensions with 186 00:10:56,134 --> 00:11:01,294 Speaker 1: Israel further Jessica, Why are Hesbela seemingly raising tensions at 187 00:11:01,334 --> 00:11:03,894 Speaker 1: this time? What do they stand to benefit from clashing 188 00:11:03,894 --> 00:11:04,814 Speaker 1: with Israel now? 189 00:11:05,414 --> 00:11:07,534 Speaker 3: Yeah, So there are a number of factors here, and 190 00:11:07,574 --> 00:11:11,614 Speaker 3: it's a pretty precarious situation right now, and we're seeing 191 00:11:12,294 --> 00:11:15,494 Speaker 3: quite a lot of what we could call brinkmanship on 192 00:11:15,574 --> 00:11:18,614 Speaker 3: behalf of Israel and it seems like also on behalf 193 00:11:18,654 --> 00:11:22,254 Speaker 3: of Hezbelah where they're really engaging in actions that could 194 00:11:22,374 --> 00:11:26,494 Speaker 3: end up precipitating an all out military confrontation, even if 195 00:11:26,894 --> 00:11:30,574 Speaker 3: that's not in Lebanon's interests, it's not in Israel's interests, 196 00:11:30,574 --> 00:11:34,494 Speaker 3: it's not in Hesbella's interests. I mean, Hezbollah never claimed 197 00:11:34,574 --> 00:11:39,654 Speaker 3: responsibility for that strike in the Golan, even though it's 198 00:11:39,974 --> 00:11:44,854 Speaker 3: widely assumed that it probably did come from Hesblah. After that, 199 00:11:45,134 --> 00:11:50,094 Speaker 3: as a response, we've seen a targeting of a Hezbula 200 00:11:50,294 --> 00:11:54,134 Speaker 3: senior commander in Beirut on behalf of Israel that was 201 00:11:54,214 --> 00:11:57,814 Speaker 3: claimed by Israel. They ended up killing that senior commander, 202 00:11:58,054 --> 00:12:02,094 Speaker 3: Ford Chucker. Then we've also seen relatedly but somewhat separate, 203 00:12:02,614 --> 00:12:07,654 Speaker 3: other assassinations, so of course the assassination of Ishmaelhanir in 204 00:12:07,734 --> 00:12:12,334 Speaker 3: Tehran who was a MUSS senior commander, and then also 205 00:12:12,614 --> 00:12:17,854 Speaker 3: another Hamask commander who's just been assassinated recently outside be Route. 206 00:12:18,014 --> 00:12:21,254 Speaker 3: So what we're seeing is a ramping up of the 207 00:12:21,294 --> 00:12:24,734 Speaker 3: tit for tat responses that have been going on since 208 00:12:25,294 --> 00:12:30,414 Speaker 3: the October seven attacks into Israel, but we're seeing currently 209 00:12:30,694 --> 00:12:35,774 Speaker 3: a really rising escalation of those tensions. It wouldn't be 210 00:12:36,414 --> 00:12:39,494 Speaker 3: in any side interests for this to turn into an 211 00:12:39,494 --> 00:12:43,414 Speaker 3: all out state to state military conflict that really engulfs 212 00:12:43,414 --> 00:12:48,494 Speaker 3: the whole region. However, there is certainly a risk that 213 00:12:48,494 --> 00:12:53,374 Speaker 3: that could occur as each side feels that they need 214 00:12:53,534 --> 00:12:56,894 Speaker 3: to respond to actions that the other side is taking. 215 00:12:57,374 --> 00:13:01,334 Speaker 1: With the death of those Hamas leaders via assassination, there's 216 00:13:01,374 --> 00:13:04,734 Speaker 1: been new people who've stepped into those roles, one of 217 00:13:04,774 --> 00:13:08,094 Speaker 1: which was I understand to have been involved in the 218 00:13:08,094 --> 00:13:12,814 Speaker 1: October seven attack. Personally, what happens when you cut the 219 00:13:12,854 --> 00:13:15,574 Speaker 1: head off the snake. Does it actually make a difference 220 00:13:15,614 --> 00:13:18,174 Speaker 1: if you target those leaders or are they literally just 221 00:13:18,934 --> 00:13:21,694 Speaker 1: many more waitings standing by to step into that place. 222 00:13:22,054 --> 00:13:25,134 Speaker 3: In many ways, so with the killing of Ishmaelhaniyah and 223 00:13:25,174 --> 00:13:30,654 Speaker 3: then the appointment of Yahya Sinhwa, who's actually the head 224 00:13:30,654 --> 00:13:34,254 Speaker 3: of Hamas now, who's actually located in the Gaza strip 225 00:13:34,374 --> 00:13:39,054 Speaker 3: and is really in any case the military commander of 226 00:13:39,334 --> 00:13:44,094 Speaker 3: the Hummas group, what we're seeing is we're probably getting 227 00:13:44,374 --> 00:13:48,614 Speaker 3: further away from any kind of enduring ceasefire deal whilst 228 00:13:48,734 --> 00:13:51,694 Speaker 3: Yahya Sinhwar is in place as the head of Hamas. 229 00:13:52,214 --> 00:13:55,414 Speaker 3: Because Israel has said very clearly that one of their 230 00:13:55,774 --> 00:14:00,494 Speaker 3: key objectives in their military operations into Gaza is to 231 00:14:00,654 --> 00:14:05,734 Speaker 3: essentially assassinate eliminate Yahya Sinha, given that he's so clearly 232 00:14:05,814 --> 00:14:09,734 Speaker 3: linked with being behind the October seven attacks. So I 233 00:14:09,774 --> 00:14:14,294 Speaker 3: can't see a situation even if ceasefire talks start up 234 00:14:14,334 --> 00:14:18,014 Speaker 3: again next week, as is broadly expected with pressure from 235 00:14:18,054 --> 00:14:22,814 Speaker 3: international actors, I can't see a situation where Israel would 236 00:14:22,854 --> 00:14:26,854 Speaker 3: make a permanent ceasefire deal with Yahya Sinoa himself. So 237 00:14:27,094 --> 00:14:29,614 Speaker 3: we might see it most a kind of a temporary 238 00:14:29,734 --> 00:14:34,414 Speaker 3: ceasefire in exchange for hostages, Israeli hostages being released from 239 00:14:34,414 --> 00:14:36,894 Speaker 3: the Gaza strip. But I actually think the appointment of 240 00:14:36,974 --> 00:14:40,934 Speaker 3: Yahya Sinowa takes us much further away from a realistic 241 00:14:40,974 --> 00:14:43,814 Speaker 3: situation where we're going to see some kind of permanent 242 00:14:43,894 --> 00:14:48,254 Speaker 3: ceasefire decided within coming weeks or months, or even whilst 243 00:14:48,254 --> 00:14:50,414 Speaker 3: he is still head of Hamas. 244 00:14:51,094 --> 00:14:53,614 Speaker 1: The US plays a vital role in this war, supplying 245 00:14:53,654 --> 00:14:57,214 Speaker 1: military support to Israel to continue the offensive in Gaza 246 00:14:57,294 --> 00:15:00,934 Speaker 1: and providing diplomatic support despite growing calls for Israel to 247 00:15:01,094 --> 00:15:04,534 Speaker 1: end the violence. President Joe Biden earlier this year did 248 00:15:04,574 --> 00:15:08,094 Speaker 1: reveal that they would stop sending some American weapons to Israel, 249 00:15:08,334 --> 00:15:11,494 Speaker 1: which he admitted to knowing were being used to kill civilians. 250 00:15:11,854 --> 00:15:16,654 Speaker 1: But his government also recently hosted Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, 251 00:15:16,974 --> 00:15:20,374 Speaker 1: who addressed Congress in a fiery speech where he pledged 252 00:15:20,414 --> 00:15:24,814 Speaker 1: again to achieve total victory against Hamas, denouncing American opponents 253 00:15:24,854 --> 00:15:26,294 Speaker 1: to the war as idiots. 254 00:15:26,574 --> 00:15:31,094 Speaker 2: Together, we shall defend our common civilization. Together, we shall 255 00:15:31,134 --> 00:15:36,254 Speaker 2: secure a brilliant future for both our nations. May God 256 00:15:36,294 --> 00:15:40,214 Speaker 2: bless Israel, May God bless America, and may God bless 257 00:15:40,254 --> 00:15:44,094 Speaker 2: the great alliance between Israel and America forever. 258 00:15:45,294 --> 00:15:47,774 Speaker 1: His speech was met with a standing ovation from some 259 00:15:47,934 --> 00:15:52,014 Speaker 1: members of Congress. The Vice President and now Democratic presidential 260 00:15:52,054 --> 00:15:55,414 Speaker 1: hopeful Kamala Harris, who spoke to Netnyahu during this visit, 261 00:15:55,734 --> 00:15:59,054 Speaker 1: said that she'd raised concerns about food and security and 262 00:15:59,214 --> 00:16:02,494 Speaker 1: Palestinian civilian debts in Gaza, with him, saying she will 263 00:16:02,534 --> 00:16:03,334 Speaker 1: not be silent. 264 00:16:03,614 --> 00:16:06,614 Speaker 4: We cannot look away in the face of these tragedies. 265 00:16:07,054 --> 00:16:10,934 Speaker 4: We cannot allow ourselves to become numb to the suffering, 266 00:16:11,214 --> 00:16:12,894 Speaker 4: and I will not be silent. 267 00:16:14,974 --> 00:16:17,254 Speaker 1: But in the hours after the weekend air strike on 268 00:16:17,294 --> 00:16:20,494 Speaker 1: that school, she again delivered the line the Biden administration 269 00:16:20,614 --> 00:16:22,534 Speaker 1: has been saying since the beginning of this. 270 00:16:22,574 --> 00:16:26,094 Speaker 4: War, riattick and far too many civilians who have been killed. 271 00:16:26,334 --> 00:16:29,014 Speaker 4: I mean, Israel has a right to go after the 272 00:16:29,134 --> 00:16:32,494 Speaker 4: terriffs that are Harmas, but as I have said many 273 00:16:32,494 --> 00:16:36,854 Speaker 4: many times, they also have I believe, an important responsibility 274 00:16:36,894 --> 00:16:38,734 Speaker 4: to avoid civilian casualties. 275 00:16:38,894 --> 00:16:42,934 Speaker 1: Jessica, could Kamala Harris potentially winning the presidential election in 276 00:16:42,974 --> 00:16:45,534 Speaker 1: November have an impact on the war in Gaza could 277 00:16:45,694 --> 00:16:47,254 Speaker 1: go some way to resolving it? 278 00:16:47,414 --> 00:16:49,974 Speaker 3: Yeah, it very possibly could. And there is going to 279 00:16:50,014 --> 00:16:53,174 Speaker 3: be a real decision point or fork in the road 280 00:16:53,494 --> 00:16:57,054 Speaker 3: just after the US presidential elections later this year, when 281 00:16:57,094 --> 00:17:00,334 Speaker 3: we see whether Trump is re elected as president or 282 00:17:00,334 --> 00:17:03,174 Speaker 3: whether Kamala Harris is elected as president. And I see 283 00:17:03,214 --> 00:17:08,134 Speaker 3: both of those options having quite different implications for the 284 00:17:08,294 --> 00:17:12,854 Speaker 3: course of the Israel Hamas conflict if we haven't seen 285 00:17:13,214 --> 00:17:17,734 Speaker 3: some kind of political resolution before then. But I do 286 00:17:17,774 --> 00:17:21,334 Speaker 3: think that you're right that Kamala Harris would take a 287 00:17:21,454 --> 00:17:26,334 Speaker 3: slightly different approach to Joe Biden in terms of her 288 00:17:26,894 --> 00:17:31,974 Speaker 3: rhetoric and probably her personal stance. However, in terms of 289 00:17:32,014 --> 00:17:38,774 Speaker 3: the broader US military and administrative and governance structures and 290 00:17:38,814 --> 00:17:43,374 Speaker 3: the way that they're operating in terms of providing military 291 00:17:43,414 --> 00:17:47,094 Speaker 3: and other types of capability and aid to Israel and 292 00:17:47,134 --> 00:17:50,174 Speaker 3: sort of staying strong in some ways as a security 293 00:17:50,214 --> 00:17:55,054 Speaker 3: ally of Israel. I don't see that fundamentally shifting in 294 00:17:55,174 --> 00:17:57,734 Speaker 3: terms of the US position, even though I do think 295 00:17:57,774 --> 00:18:00,734 Speaker 3: there would certainly be a shift in the tone or 296 00:18:00,774 --> 00:18:03,054 Speaker 3: the rhetoric that we would see coming from the president 297 00:18:03,254 --> 00:18:05,414 Speaker 3: if Kamala Harris were to be elected. 298 00:18:06,694 --> 00:18:09,774 Speaker 1: After the weekend's attack, Kamala Harris has again called a 299 00:18:09,774 --> 00:18:11,654 Speaker 1: ceasefire in Gaza. 300 00:18:11,134 --> 00:18:13,214 Speaker 4: First and foremost, and the President I have been working 301 00:18:13,214 --> 00:18:15,494 Speaker 4: around this around the clock. We need to get the 302 00:18:15,534 --> 00:18:17,534 Speaker 4: hostages it out. We need a hostage deal, and we 303 00:18:17,534 --> 00:18:21,734 Speaker 4: need a ceasfire. I can't stress that strongly enough. It 304 00:18:21,814 --> 00:18:23,654 Speaker 4: needs to get done. The deal needs to get done, 305 00:18:23,694 --> 00:18:24,654 Speaker 4: and it needs to get done now. 306 00:18:25,134 --> 00:18:28,374 Speaker 1: But Jessica doesn't think that will be happening anytime soon. 307 00:18:29,214 --> 00:18:33,334 Speaker 3: Unfortunately, what we're likely to see is this probably dragging 308 00:18:33,414 --> 00:18:37,294 Speaker 3: on longer. I think we might see some sort of 309 00:18:37,454 --> 00:18:40,974 Speaker 3: temporary cease fire in exchange for the release of hostages. 310 00:18:41,574 --> 00:18:45,454 Speaker 3: But what will need to happen, like with most conflicts, 311 00:18:45,574 --> 00:18:49,774 Speaker 3: is that the key actors, which is essentially Hamas and 312 00:18:50,254 --> 00:18:54,054 Speaker 3: Israel need to get to a point where they would 313 00:18:54,214 --> 00:18:58,574 Speaker 3: like to see a cessation of hostilities above all other options. 314 00:18:58,894 --> 00:19:02,294 Speaker 3: Until we get to that point, pressure from the international 315 00:19:02,294 --> 00:19:06,854 Speaker 3: community can only go so far. In terms of trying 316 00:19:06,894 --> 00:19:11,134 Speaker 3: to create a more permanent ceasefire, I don't really see 317 00:19:11,174 --> 00:19:14,254 Speaker 3: that happening. A permanent cease fire on paper, in terms 318 00:19:14,254 --> 00:19:17,334 Speaker 3: of an official agreement, I don't see happening while Yahoa 319 00:19:17,374 --> 00:19:20,654 Speaker 3: Sinoar is head of HUMAS. But even a sort of 320 00:19:21,494 --> 00:19:25,014 Speaker 3: de facto ceasefire where essentially the fighting stops because both 321 00:19:25,054 --> 00:19:29,134 Speaker 3: sides prefer that to other options, is only going to happen. 322 00:19:29,174 --> 00:19:31,814 Speaker 3: I think once both sides get to a point where 323 00:19:31,854 --> 00:19:34,374 Speaker 3: that is really the preferable option to them, I don't 324 00:19:34,374 --> 00:19:38,894 Speaker 3: think it's going to happen purely from external international pressure. 325 00:19:40,174 --> 00:19:42,774 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening today, friends. If you have some feedback 326 00:19:42,814 --> 00:19:44,494 Speaker 1: on the show, we'd love to hear it, the good, 327 00:19:44,534 --> 00:19:47,214 Speaker 1: the bad, and the constructive. If you could rate and 328 00:19:47,254 --> 00:19:49,614 Speaker 1: review us in your podcast app it not only helps 329 00:19:49,694 --> 00:19:52,254 Speaker 1: us grow that it helps get us into more people's ears. 330 00:19:52,254 --> 00:19:54,814 Speaker 1: To a huge thank you to those who've done so recently. 331 00:19:54,934 --> 00:19:58,374 Speaker 1: You are Ace the Quickie is produced by me Claire 332 00:19:58,454 --> 00:20:01,694 Speaker 1: Murphy and our senior producer Taylor Strato, with audio production 333 00:20:01,854 --> 00:20:09,414 Speaker 1: by Lou Hill.