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Speaker 1: You're listening to Amma Mia podcast. Mamma Mia acknowledges the

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Speaker 1: traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast is

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Speaker 1: recorded on. Hi. I'm Claire Murphy. This is Mumma MIA's

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Speaker 1: daily news podcast, The Quickie. Two years ago, we brought

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Speaker 1: you the story of Taylor Frankie Paul, a member of

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Speaker 1: the Mormon mom Talk group who were making millions on

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Speaker 1: the social media platform showing off their lives in the

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Speaker 1: home of the Church of Latter day Saints in Utah

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Speaker 1: before it all fell apart.

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Speaker 2: I got on a TikTok live fifty to sixty thousand people.

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Speaker 2: We would have parties and there was a group of

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Speaker 2: us that were intimate with each other. It was more

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Speaker 2: like orgies. The guys were like, whoa like, our wives

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Speaker 2: just did that. It happen several times. I've met up

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Speaker 2: with all of the husbands and that's where things just

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Speaker 2: kind of like blew up.

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Speaker 1: That story has led to the mom Talk members becoming

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Speaker 1: part of a new Hulu series that follows their lives

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Speaker 1: through social media stardom and the conflicts of their modern

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Speaker 1: lives in parallel with their conservative religion. Today, we look

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Speaker 1: at the balance of faith, fame, and fortune as the

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Speaker 1: secret lives of Mormon wives are not so secret anymore.

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Speaker 1: But before we head to Utah, here's the latest from

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Speaker 1: the Quickie newsroom, Wednesday, September twenty five. The Reserve Bank

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Speaker 1: left the cash rate on hold yesterday, but we're expected

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Speaker 1: to find out today where we're at with inflation and

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Speaker 1: if rate cuts are actually on the horizon. The ABS

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Speaker 1: will release its monthly consumer price index data for the

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Speaker 1: month of August today, with government electricity subsidies and falling

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Speaker 1: fuel prices expected to result in a drop in headline inflation.

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Speaker 1: After holding the cash rates steady at four point three

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Speaker 1: five percent, RBA boss Michelle Bullock yesterday predicted that inflation

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Speaker 1: will fall below three percent, the target they've been reaching

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Speaker 1: for since inflation began surging, but cautioned that the monthly

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Speaker 1: figure is more volatile and less influential to the board's

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Speaker 1: decision than the quarterly figure, which is due next month.

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Speaker 1: She advised that the board doesn't envisage any rate cuts

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Speaker 1: in the near future with underlying inflation at the level

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Speaker 1: it is, but some economists are predicting cuts early next year.

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Speaker 1: The Australian Competition and Consumer Commission is honing in on

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Speaker 1: the psychology of supermarket discounting as they take Coals and

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Speaker 1: Woolworths to court for allegedly breaking consumer law. The A

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Speaker 1: Triple C claims the two bigger supermarket chains in the

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Speaker 1: country briefly jack up the price of products by around

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Speaker 1: fifteen percent before dropping them to below the peak but

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Speaker 1: still above the initial price. Consumer behavior experts say the

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Speaker 1: illusion of the discount plays into the way in which

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Speaker 1: we make choices, making us think we don't have to

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Speaker 1: process detailed information about it because it's on sale, shifting

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Speaker 1: us from thinking rationally and carefully to emotionally with the

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Speaker 1: hint of fomo and guilt that if we don't buy now,

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Speaker 1: we'll miss out later. Coles is defending the action, while

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Speaker 1: Wolwords says their Prices Dropped program is giving their customers

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Speaker 1: great value every day. The A Triple C says the

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Speaker 1: revenue from misleading discounts is significant, giving they sold tens

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Speaker 1: of millions of the affected products. Swiss police have arrested

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Speaker 1: four people after an am American woman it used the

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Speaker 1: Sarco capsule, the brainchild of Australian physician Philip Niskei, to

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Speaker 1: end her life. The Sarco Capture was built by a

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Speaker 1: company called Last Resort and was deployed in the woods

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Speaker 1: on Monday to be used by the sixty four year

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Speaker 1: old who'd been living with a severely compromised immune system.

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Speaker 1: In a statement released by Last Resort, they said her

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Speaker 1: passing was peaceful and dignified, and that she'd passed psychiatric

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Speaker 1: evaluations in the days leading up to her deciding to

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Speaker 1: utilize the capsule, which releases nitrogen gas, lowering oxygen levels.

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Speaker 1: The local Minister for Health says the capsule doesn't meet

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Speaker 1: the requirements of product safety law and that the use

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Speaker 1: of nitrogen in this way is not legally compliant. While

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Speaker 1: Sean Diddy Coombs remains behind bars awaiting trial on federal

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Speaker 1: sex crimes, a new lawsuit has been filed against him

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Speaker 1: and his bodyguard. The allegations referred to a two thousand

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Speaker 1: and one incident where a woman named Tarlia Graves claims

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Speaker 1: Combs and his head of security at the time raped

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Speaker 1: her at the office of Bad Boy Records in New York.

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Speaker 1: She says that since the assault, which she claimed was

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Speaker 1: recorded on video, she's been left with suicidal thoughts. Graves

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Speaker 1: appearing before reporters at a press conference in tears, saying

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Speaker 1: she feels worthless and isolated after the alleged attack. She

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Speaker 1: ended the press conference saying she's glad Coombsies locked up,

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Speaker 1: but that it was only a temporary feeling of relief.

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Speaker 1: Her lawyer is Gloria Alred, who's represented many high profile clients,

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Speaker 1: including the family of Nicole Simpson, OJ Simpson's murdered wife,

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Speaker 1: Spice Girl Melby, and Tiger Woods mistress Rachel Yucatel. That's

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Speaker 1: the latest news headlines. Next, we unravel the loopholes, lives

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Speaker 1: and loves of the Mormon Wives to ask the question

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Speaker 1: will mom Talks survive? This just a heads up before

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Speaker 1: we get started. Spoiler alerts ahead, so please proceed with caution.

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Speaker 1: The Secret Lives of Mormon Wives has taken the reality

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Speaker 1: TV world by storm, offering us us a glimpse into

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Speaker 1: the lives of a group of Mormon influencers who found

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Speaker 1: fame on social media. The Hulu series, which premiered on

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Speaker 1: September six and can be seen on Disney Plus in Australia,

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Speaker 1: follows a group of women from Utah who are part

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Speaker 1: of the popular mom talk community on TikTok now. Mom

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Speaker 1: Talk is a subset of TikTok content creators who are

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Speaker 1: mothers and Mormons and who all live in Utah, with

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Speaker 1: the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints is based.

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Speaker 1: They gained popularity by sharing snippets of their daily lives,

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Speaker 1: often featuring dance videos, lip syncing, family content, and later

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Speaker 1: brand deals.

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Speaker 3: After their followers grew rapidly, mom.

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Speaker 2: Talk flew up over a night again like sixty thousand

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Speaker 2: followers just in a week, like nine million views.

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Speaker 1: And I was like, whoa, WHOA, Like this is crazy.

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Speaker 4: I think I have about one point five million, probably

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Speaker 4: two million followers.

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Speaker 1: But their rise in popularity pushed boundaries within the LDS Church.

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Speaker 1: Mormon women are supposed to remain a virgin until marriage

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Speaker 1: to keep their body sacred, even from holding a boy's

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Speaker 1: hand until then. Somewhere garments a form of underwear that's

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Speaker 1: a reminder of their modesty and chastity. They don't drink alcohol,

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Speaker 1: don't do drugs, dedicate Sundays to the Lord, and avoid coffee, tea, gambling, divorce,

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Speaker 1: and birth control, which is why many viewers of the

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Speaker 1: Secret Lives of Mormon wives were surprised to see the

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Speaker 1: newly divorced Taylor. Frankie Paul, who'd blown up mom talk

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Speaker 1: with her soft swinging admission a couple of years ago,

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Speaker 1: was now seeing a new man and had fallen pregnant

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Speaker 1: out of wedlock.

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Speaker 2: Yeah swinging, Yeah, of course, like I regretting that absolutely,

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Speaker 2: but it did get me where I am today, so it's.

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Speaker 1: Hard to say.

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Speaker 2: I also have like a beautiful beanie that I have

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Speaker 2: from a different map.

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Speaker 1: Okay, prepare yourself for a next season spoiler. Frankie Paul

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Speaker 1: has just revealed overnight that she and Dakota have broken up.

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Speaker 1: The admission to US Weekly comes after Netterson's spent days

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Speaker 1: comparing social posts from the pair and revealing that it

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Speaker 1: looked like they were living separately. Frankie Paul said they're

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Speaker 1: working on things, but she has no idea where they're

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Speaker 1: going from here. She did admit they're not fully together,

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Speaker 1: but are also not fully done either. I guess we'll

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Speaker 1: get the lowdown in season two.

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Speaker 3: But back to this.

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Speaker 1: Season, and viewers were also surprised to see some of

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Speaker 1: the women get laughing gas at botox appointments.

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Speaker 4: Like I would love you Maria laughing Gaster talks, but

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Speaker 4: I'll do it today just for funds.

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Speaker 3: Like I've never had left?

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Speaker 4: Ye, why not?

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Speaker 3: Like not gonna get hyper free? Like what are you

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Speaker 3: against the rule?

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Speaker 1: Some admitted to getting ketamine therapy, getting tattoos, and in

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Speaker 1: one episode, they attended Chippendale's performance in Vegas. It all

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Speaker 1: seems very unmormon like, especially to those of us who

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Speaker 1: are not in any way involved in the Mormon Church.

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Speaker 1: Frankie Paul is joined on the show by fellow cast

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Speaker 1: members Jesse Natakura, Layla Taylor Macy, Neely Michayla Matthews, Whitney Levitt,

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Speaker 1: Demi Engerman, and Jen Affleck. Yes, she's related to Ben

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Speaker 1: Well her husband Zach is.

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Speaker 2: When I first started doing Zach that was the first

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Speaker 2: thing that his family talking.

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Speaker 3: They're like, well, if you marry Ham, you get to.

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Speaker 4: Say you're related to Ben Affleck.

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Speaker 2: I'm like, yes, I'm related to Ben Affleck.

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Speaker 4: You are.

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Speaker 3: I was named after j Low, Like, I'm here to

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Speaker 3: take their plate. So he's a second cousin your husband

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Speaker 3: paid dad.

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Speaker 1: The women involved in this series say they are actively

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Speaker 1: working to modernize their faith and especially the roles of

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Speaker 1: women within it.

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Speaker 2: We are a new generation of Mormon women we have

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Speaker 2: a platform that the generation didn't have before us.

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Speaker 4: They're just powerful women trying to change the stigma of

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Speaker 4: gender roles on the Mormon culture.

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Speaker 1: For example, one episode features Whitney grappling with a twenty

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Speaker 1: thousand dollars promotional deal for sex toys, spucking important conversations

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Speaker 1: about sexuality within the Mormon community, topics that have long

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Speaker 1: been taboo. Whitney even asks her mum why she never

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Speaker 1: told her anything about sex before she says she experienced

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Speaker 1: her horror film version of a wedding Night. The series

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Speaker 1: also delves into the aftermath of Taylor's soft Swinging scandal,

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Speaker 1: showing just how it affected the wider mom talk community,

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Speaker 1: and many of the cast members deny any involvement in

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Speaker 1: the scandal, and the show never outs any of the

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Speaker 1: others as having been involved. The Secret Lives of Mormon

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Speaker 1: Wives has not been without its critics. Some argue the

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Speaker 1: show presents a sensationalized view of Mormon life, focusing on

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Speaker 1: the scandals rather than the day to day realities of faith.

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Speaker 3: Others, though, are.

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Speaker 1: Praising it for starting important conversations about modernizing attitudes within

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Speaker 1: the church. Tina Burke is Muma MIA's entertainment editor Tina.

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Speaker 1: While I was binge watching this show, my husband claimed

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Speaker 1: to not be watching, despite lurking in the background for

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Speaker 1: the majority of it, and he kept commenting saying, these

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Speaker 1: women can't be Mormon. Is that something I think people

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Speaker 1: are a bit shocked by watching this show that we're

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Speaker 1: kind of used to the keep sweet, pray and obey

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Speaker 1: Netflix Mormons rather than these very modern Mormons.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. I think that's kind of why the interest in

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Speaker 4: them first sprung up when they were on TikTok is

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Speaker 4: because they were so different. You know, some of them

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Speaker 4: will drink, they'll party, they talk about kind of these

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Speaker 4: crazy lives that they're living, and that's sort of where

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Speaker 4: the interest definitely started with these women.

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Speaker 1: We can we talk about some of these women in particular,

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Speaker 1: because I think the first real story that came out

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Speaker 1: of this show when it hit earlier this month, was

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Speaker 1: that Mikayla, one of the girls, had had a baby

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Speaker 1: when she was sixteen. And this is something I guess

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Speaker 1: that we didn't really consider in the Mormon Church, is

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Speaker 1: that these girls and Jen I think it's just twenty

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Speaker 1: and has two kids already, is that they really do

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Speaker 1: start young in these relationships.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. Absolutely, And you know, Mikayla's not the only one.

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Speaker 4: I think the ages of the women is definitely concerning

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Speaker 4: to a lot of viewers and a lot of people

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Speaker 4: who knew them from TikTok, In particular Michayla. She kind

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Speaker 4: of slowly revealed this age gap over time on TikTok,

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Speaker 4: and it was only when people started doing the math

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Speaker 4: and putting it together that he had been twenty one

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Speaker 4: she had been sixteen that people started to question the relationship.

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Speaker 4: And it kind of gets brushed over on Secret Lives

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Speaker 4: with Mormon Wives, which I think is part of the

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Speaker 4: concern for people, to be honest, a lot of the

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Speaker 4: husbands are part of the concern for people, especially when

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Speaker 4: you're watching these scenes where the age gaps or you know,

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Speaker 4: the age gap for Demi. They've brushed over these really

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Speaker 4: interesting topic which is a bit worrying for some viewers.

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Speaker 1: One though, that they do get into is the Jen

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Speaker 1: and Zach relationship because they talk about him being narcissistic

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Speaker 1: and being controlling and that it's a very patriarchal view

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Speaker 1: of a husband and wife relationship. Obviously involved in the

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Speaker 1: episode where they go see a Chippendale show, and he

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Speaker 1: basically threatens to divorce her.

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Speaker 3: But I did see something.

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Speaker 1: Really interesting posted on threads from a Mormon woman who said,

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Speaker 1: the transition from controlling religious upbringing to a controlling husband

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Speaker 1: is actually quite easy for these women to fall into

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Speaker 1: that trap. Do you think that was a really important

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Speaker 1: discussion to have around this real faith based struggle that

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Speaker 1: these women have trying to still uphold their religious beliefs

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Speaker 1: but at the same time realizing that real patriarchal view

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Speaker 1: is holding them back absolutely.

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Speaker 4: And I think Jen and Zaka the perfect example of that,

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Speaker 4: because the group kind of divide themselves into the sinners

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Speaker 4: and the saints throughout the series, so you know, the

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Speaker 4: women who are more conservative, more traditional, and then the

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Speaker 4: woman who are not, And when they say they're not,

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Speaker 4: it's that they might, yeah, go to Chippendale's or they

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Speaker 4: might occasionally have a drink. They all still, for the

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Speaker 4: most part, these women are all practicing, they're all religious still,

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Speaker 4: but some of them sort of take the traditional conservative

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Speaker 4: elements of it more seriously. And with Jen and Zach,

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Speaker 4: that's really clear throughout the series that she kind of

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Speaker 4: has just fallen into this relationship where she's willing to

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Speaker 4: accept something that maybe the other women are not. And

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Speaker 4: yet with Zach it's kind of evident in the fact

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Speaker 4: that he doesn't particularly care about her interests. He's willing to,

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Speaker 4: you know, study and he wants to go to medical school,

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Speaker 4: and he's happy for her to pay the bills with

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Speaker 4: this influencer life that she has created, but he does

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Speaker 4: look down on the job that she has and on

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Speaker 4: the friendships that she has as a result, which does

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Speaker 4: all come back to this kind of conservative view that

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Speaker 4: men should be the breadwinners and that men in the

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Speaker 4: Mormon Church should be able to have a nice wife

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Speaker 4: who stays at home, who raises their kids, and so

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Speaker 4: the things that they're doing on mom Talk are kind

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Speaker 4: of in contrast to this image that they're all trying

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Speaker 4: to show, which, yeah, Zach is definitely the one that

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Speaker 4: viewers have had a really big problem with.

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Speaker 1: You mentioned some things there which are considered loopholes in

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Speaker 1: the Mormon religion. You mentioned like Jesse, for example, will

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Speaker 1: drink alcohol even though they're not supposed to. But they

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Speaker 1: exposed quite a few loopholes in this whole idea that

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Speaker 1: women are supposed to and men are supposed to uphold

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Speaker 1: this sort of certain set of rules like no drugs,

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Speaker 1: no coffee, no alcohol, and yet they're doing laughing gas

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Speaker 1: when they're getting botox, they're doing ketamine therapy to help

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Speaker 1: with their mental health, like they're even getting tattoos, which

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Speaker 1: is really not acceptable in the Mormon Church. And I

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Speaker 1: know that we wrote a story on side about other

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Speaker 1: loopholes that include really strange terminology like soaking and dirping,

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Speaker 1: which seem awful, But there seems to be ways to

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Speaker 1: get around your religious beliefs if you kind of juggle

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Speaker 1: the message.

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Speaker 4: Absolutely, and Okay, this is so weird, but I do

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Speaker 4: think one of the biggest examples is their obsession with soda.

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Speaker 4: So if you've seen the show, you'll know that they

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Speaker 4: buy what is essentially like four cans of soft drink.

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Speaker 4: They get it in this big, big sippy cup, and

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Speaker 4: they drink this soda because they can't have tea and coffee.

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Speaker 4: So the point is that in their scripture it says

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Speaker 4: that they shouldn't be drinking tea and coffee, but yet

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Speaker 4: it doesn't mention soda, probably because soda wasn't so much

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Speaker 4: a thing. But the loophole around that is cool. We

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Speaker 4: can have caffeine so long as it's in this big

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Speaker 4: sugary drink that we create ourselves. And so at parties

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Speaker 4: they won't have alcohol, but they'll have soda stations. And

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Speaker 4: when it comes to things like Zach and Jen in Vegas,

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Speaker 4: for example, yes, she was at chippen Nails, and he

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Speaker 4: sees that as going against their religion, but he was

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Speaker 4: also gambling, which is also against their religion. So they

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Speaker 4: kind of have these really interesting and loose way that

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Speaker 4: they view their morals in relation to the Mormon Church.

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Speaker 4: Then the rules for some things and not for others,

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Speaker 4: which is I think why this show is so fascinating

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Speaker 4: to people, because it does seem at the end of

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Speaker 4: the day, like the women are kind of the main

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Speaker 4: ones who a judged for bending those rules. And when

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Speaker 4: it comes to yeah, they're botox, they can have laughing

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Speaker 4: gas and they can have botox. Botox isn't mentioned in

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Speaker 4: the scripture, so therefore it's allowed. There's a really interesting

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Speaker 4: view of like what they can and can't do.

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Speaker 3: So, you know, why are we so obsessed with these women?

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Speaker 4: I think it's just a fascinating look into a life

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Speaker 4: that we don't understand. I think that's why Mumtalk blew up. Originally,

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Speaker 4: there was this real confusion around the religious element and

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Speaker 4: then the cultural elements of the two clashing ideas that

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Speaker 4: they all have. And then when you see a play

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Speaker 4: out on screen, it's so fascinating because in one scene

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Speaker 4: they'll be talking about, you know, who's the most Mormon,

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Speaker 4: like who has the most conservative views? And then in

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Speaker 4: another video they're yeah at botox parties doing their laughing gas.

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Speaker 4: In another scene, they'll all be saying, to be honest,

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Speaker 4: it's kind of the most hateful possible things about each other,

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Speaker 4: while then talking about who's the most about It's this

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Speaker 4: really interesting car crash reality TV that you just can't

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Speaker 4: look away from.

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Speaker 1: I think you forget to when they're talking and you're like, oh,

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Speaker 1: oh my gosh, this is so immature. But they really

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Speaker 1: are just in their twenties.

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Speaker 4: They're so young. Yeah, the oldest woman on that show

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Speaker 4: is thirty one, and she calls herself the grandma of

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Speaker 4: the group. They are so incredibly young, and there's even

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Speaker 4: a joke in one part where one of them is

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Speaker 4: talking about how they got married before their frontal lobes

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Speaker 4: had developed. And so there are definitely scenes where you're

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Speaker 4: watching it and you're like, this feels like high school,

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Speaker 4: but you're also then going, okay, well, some of them

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Speaker 4: did get into relationships at incredibly young age, They got

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Speaker 4: married at young ages, they had kids at young ages,

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Speaker 4: So maybe they are just kind of immature in some ways,

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Speaker 4: and it is a little bit understandable.

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Speaker 1: As the series wrapped up with Taylor Frankie Paul giving

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Speaker 1: birth to her out of wedlock baby boy, and the

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Speaker 1: rest of Mom Talk shunning Whitney as she attempted to

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Speaker 1: be a better friend, viewers.

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Speaker 3: Were left wondering about the future of mom Talk.

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Speaker 1: Tina, if there's one phrase we heard a million times

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Speaker 1: over the course of this show, will mom Talk survive this?

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Speaker 4: It's a big question. Honestly, can mom Talk even survive this?

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Speaker 4: Trying to use that in my everyday life, just to

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Speaker 4: think of like anything that happens to me, Like will

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Speaker 4: mum talk survive me doing my groceries? But you know,

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Speaker 4: will mum Talk survived this? I think it will. The

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Speaker 4: show has definitely introduced us to some of the people

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Speaker 4: that we didn't know so well beforehand, Like a lot

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Speaker 4: of these influencers weren't really in the initial group and

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Speaker 4: now they have even bigger following, so like four hundred

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Speaker 4: thousand on Instagram and TikTok, and that's a big following.

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Speaker 4: And to be honest, I think there's a lot of

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Speaker 4: interest in what happens next as interest for Taylor. I

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Speaker 4: do think that them ousting Whitney a little bit could

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Speaker 4: be a problem in Mum Talk surviving. As much as

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Speaker 4: she was made to be the villain, I think they're

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Speaker 4: going to need her for Mum Talk to survive, if

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Speaker 4: I'm being honest.

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Speaker 1: Before we go, I just wanted to shout out that

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Speaker 1: this is episode two thousand for the Quickie. For anyone

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Speaker 1: who's ever contributed as a guest sent in their story, ideas,

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Speaker 1: suggested topics. To all the QUICKI crew past and present,

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Speaker 1: and to you for spending time with us each and

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Speaker 1: every day. Take the time to feed your mind. Thanks Legends.

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Speaker 1: The Quickie is produced by me Claire Murphy and I'll

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Speaker 1: senior producer Taylor Strano, with audio production by Tom Lyon.