Speaker 1: This episode is brought to you by BONDEI sans everyday skincare.
Speaker 2: I didn't seek it. I wasn't looking for a change.
Speaker 2: I really loved my service and I felt like I
Speaker 2: was doing good. The opportunity presented, and I think I
Speaker 2: would have regretted not trying, not taking it. And that diversity. Gosh,
Speaker 2: it was so nourishing and so enriching, and I grew
Speaker 2: massively as a human for having that experience outside of
Speaker 2: the military as well.
Speaker 3: Welcome to the Sees the Yay Podcast.
Speaker 1: Busy and happy are not the same thing. We too
Speaker 1: rarely question what makes the heart seeing. We work, then
Speaker 1: we rest, but rarely we play and often don't realize
Speaker 1: there's more than one way. So this is a platform
Speaker 1: to hear and explore the stories of those who found lives.
Speaker 3: They adore, the good, bad and ugly.
Speaker 1: The best and worst day will bear all the facets
Speaker 1: of seizing your yay. I'm Sarah Davidson or a spoonful
Speaker 1: of Sarah, a lawyer turned fu entrepreneur who swapped the
Speaker 1: suits and heels to co found matcha Maiden and matcha
Speaker 1: Milk Bark.
Speaker 3: Cca is a series of.
Speaker 1: Conversations on finding a life you love and exploring the
Speaker 1: self doubt, challenge, joy and.
Speaker 3: Fulfillment along the way.
Speaker 1: Well, you might have seen that the spicy cough finally
Speaker 1: caught up with me, But thank goodness I squeezed this
Speaker 1: one in earlier so I could.
Speaker 3: Get it to you before Easter.
Speaker 1: Today's guest epitomizes everything that gets me excited about life
Speaker 1: and it's many twists and turns, and is even more
Speaker 1: special because she was nominated by someone in the yeghborhood.
Speaker 1: So first off, a very big thank you to the
Speaker 1: lovely Emily de Wildris for listening to the show and
Speaker 1: taking the time out of your day to submit this
Speaker 1: beautiful story. I probably wouldn't have discovered our guest without you,
Speaker 1: So I love encouraging you all to whistle blow in
Speaker 1: the best way possible so that we can shine a
Speaker 1: light on yighborhood heroes like today's introducing Alison Gordon, who
Speaker 1: has one of the coolest collection of careers I've encountered
Speaker 1: and is a wonderful reminder of the unexpected way your
Speaker 1: dots can connect, from starting out in the army to
Speaker 1: becoming an Antarctic and Arctic expedition leader. A surprise connection
Speaker 1: between Antarctica and maggots then led her into eco friendly
Speaker 1: and sustainable dog food. Every moment of this conversation had
Speaker 1: me absolutely captivated. Allison is humble, funny, and infinitely clever,
Speaker 1: and it was a lovely change to know very little
Speaker 1: about her before our chat and get to learn everything
Speaker 1: for the first time along with you, guys. I really
Speaker 1: hope you enjoy this one and find it as interesting.
Speaker 3: As I did. Allison, welcome to Seize the A. Thank you.
Speaker 4: I'm so excited to be here, Sarah, thank you so
Speaker 4: much for having me.
Speaker 3: It is such a pleasure.
Speaker 1: And this is extra special because, as all of you
Speaker 1: listeners already know, I love to get people in the
Speaker 1: neighborhood to dob in people who are doing really cool things,
Speaker 1: and this came about because of a nomination from Emily
Speaker 1: de Wilgers. If it is Emily Deues or Emily just
Speaker 1: something else. M I'm so sorry for buttsuring the pronunciation
Speaker 1: of your surname, but thank you so much for recommending Allison.
Speaker 1: Big shout out to you and Alison. Thank you for
Speaker 1: saying yes to my cold call.
Speaker 4: I was really really humbled that Emily did that.
Speaker 2: She's such a such a remarkable, beautiful, beautiful person, and
Speaker 2: it's really confronting and humbling when someone says, no, you
Speaker 2: should go on a podcast and talk about yourself with me.
Speaker 4: No, no, what I shouldn't do that.
Speaker 2: She's a special person for thinking, you know, nice things
Speaker 2: about her friend. So thanks, thanks also, Am, and thanks Sarah.
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1: The extent of Allison's humility is literally such that we
Speaker 1: have just spent ten minutes before starting recording already going
Speaker 1: through the self doubt and the why am I here
Speaker 1: and the oh my god, I'm nervous, and as you
Speaker 1: will hear very quickly, Alison's story is absolutely extraordinary. I
Speaker 1: haven't even gotten to the meat of it yet, and
Speaker 1: I just think it's so inspiring and cool and diverse.
Speaker 1: So it's interesting that even people whose stories can make
Speaker 1: your jawge, I'm still, you know, worry about whether it's
Speaker 1: worthy to talk about it or you know, as you said, Allison,
Speaker 1: it's normalized in your mind. But that's why it's so
Speaker 1: cool to hear about it, because it is normalized in
Speaker 1: your mind.
Speaker 4: You know. Well, thanks for selling me out.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I just put that straight out there.
Speaker 4: Thank you. I appreciate it.
Speaker 1: So as you know, I can't believe you have listened
Speaker 1: to the backlog of episodes as well. That also makes
Speaker 1: me feel like, oh my gosh, she's actually listen.
Speaker 3: This is so cool.
Speaker 1: I love to start by asking everyone what the most
Speaker 1: down to earth thing is about them, and normally I
Speaker 1: call it an icebreaker, but that feels even more special
Speaker 1: given that you have worked in the Antarctic.
Speaker 3: So what is something really normal about you?
Speaker 4: Pun intended like, I honestly missed this question, so I'm
Speaker 4: I'm off the cup for this one. And I would.
Speaker 2: Say that it's really normal for me to have spoken
Speaker 2: to my dad this morning and told him I was
Speaker 2: really excited doing this podcast, and he said to me, Allison,
Speaker 2: just don't speak too quickly. Always speak too quickly when
Speaker 2: you get excited and nervous and you know, passionate. So
Speaker 2: I think I think it's pretty noral to just people
Speaker 2: get excited and speak too quickly.
Speaker 4: That's me to a tea.
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1: I get told that all the time, especially when it's
Speaker 1: someone's story that I'm like and that I have read about,
Speaker 1: you know, in the background, so I kind of think,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm familiar with parts of the story. So
Speaker 1: then I go really fast, and then people who are
Speaker 1: listening to it for the first time are like, dude,
Speaker 1: you're skipping over so many details.
Speaker 3: Just slow it down. I'm like, I'm excited. I'm excited.
Speaker 3: I want to tell your entire story.
Speaker 1: And speaking of now, we are actually going to dive
Speaker 1: into the juice of your beautiful storyly as you know,
Speaker 1: the first section is your wayta and tracing back through
Speaker 1: all the different chapters that took you to where you
Speaker 1: are today. And it was really interesting if I had
Speaker 1: walked into your life at this chapter, of which we
Speaker 1: will obviously build up to, but you know, founding an
Speaker 1: eco friendly, sustainable.
Speaker 3: Dog food business.
Speaker 1: All the other dots in your story don't necessarily connect,
Speaker 1: you know, in the most upfront, obvious way. But that's
Speaker 1: my favorite kind of story to get into. So can
Speaker 1: you take us all the way back to the very
Speaker 1: beginning from you know, your childhood, your youngest self, your
Speaker 1: earliest memories of what you were like, and you know
Speaker 1: what you wanted to be.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you're so right.
Speaker 2: The dots don't naturally connect, and I forget that when
Speaker 2: I make these leaps.
Speaker 4: But I think I just.
Speaker 2: Had such a privileged childhood, not in the sense of
Speaker 2: you know, extraordinary wealth or anything. I mean, I never
Speaker 2: wanted for clothes on my back or a meal on
Speaker 2: my plate.
Speaker 4: But I think what I mean.
Speaker 2: Is we were privileged in the sense that I was
Speaker 2: raised in a loving household with parents who valued education
Speaker 2: and you know, just put family first. And so that
Speaker 2: is my overriding starting point, is that I really value
Speaker 2: my family and they. I think I had a happy childhood.
Speaker 2: I feel like I did, and I was a pretty
Speaker 2: determined kid, you know. I'm sure that was frustrated at
Speaker 2: times my siblings and my parents, but just determined to
Speaker 2: look I'm sure I was determined to get what I wanted.
Speaker 2: But what I did appreciate is that my father was
Speaker 2: in the military, and so we moved around every two
Speaker 2: to three years, sometimes more frequently, and what was consistent
Speaker 2: for me was our family units. It did mean that
Speaker 2: every year or two in school, I was the new kid,
Speaker 2: and that, you know, I think it built a level
Speaker 2: of resilience, for sure, But it also meant that I
Speaker 2: was constantly just trying to fit in and not sort
Speaker 2: of stick out and be noticed.
Speaker 4: More than you already were being the new kid. So
Speaker 4: I think that sort of you know, that shaped me
Speaker 4: a lot as well.
Speaker 2: I don't rock the boat too much and don't do
Speaker 2: anything that is going to make you stand out because
Speaker 2: you're already are a new kid, So that's probably an
Speaker 2: interesting part as well. But otherwise, I feel like I
Speaker 2: had a really lucky, good, happy childhood.
Speaker 1: That's so interesting. I often think, and you've probably heard
Speaker 1: me say that, I get so fascinated by niche communities,
Speaker 1: niche areas of interest, but also niche experiences. And you know,
Speaker 1: for anyone who hasn't grown up in a military family,
Speaker 1: it's just an upbringing and like life experience that we
Speaker 1: can't you know, understand, but I'm sure like within your
Speaker 1: group of kids who grow up in military families, you
Speaker 1: all understand the ins and outs of what it's involved
Speaker 1: to move around so much, but just hearing it, you know,
Speaker 1: as an outsider. Of course, I've like, I watch NCAS.
Speaker 1: I'm obsessed with that show, and there's this ongoing theme
Speaker 1: of people who grow up on basis or moving, you know,
Speaker 1: once every year and it's a new school, and how
Speaker 1: unsettling that can be. Like that, from such an early
Speaker 1: stage in your life made you so much like you
Speaker 1: had a crash course in change, like constant change, and
Speaker 1: I can't imagine how challenging that was, but also how
Speaker 1: much it set you up for life being a constant
Speaker 1: barrage of change.
Speaker 4: Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2: And I think, you know, you can really see that
Speaker 2: not all humans are created equal because I felt like
Speaker 2: it was okay for me, you know, I found it challenging,
Speaker 2: but I found ways to make it work for me.
Speaker 4: But I also saw in the community that not everyone
Speaker 4: found it that easy.
Speaker 2: And I think having the compassion to see that just
Speaker 2: because it wasn't super hard for me, it doesn't mean
Speaker 2: it wasn't super hard for other people.
Speaker 4: That was an early lesson as well. For sure.
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, And I looked back to younger men. I
Speaker 1: didn't move house for my whole childhood and my whole schooling,
Speaker 1: and even with that kind of environmental stability, I found
Speaker 1: it incredibly difficult to kind of figure out who I
Speaker 1: was and what I wanted and what was interesting and
Speaker 1: what wasn't. And so I can't imagine like the added
Speaker 1: layer of change of environment as well as trying to
Speaker 1: work out, you know, who you wanted to be. But
Speaker 1: it is interesting that your earliest beginnings were in the army.
Speaker 1: But how did that come about? Was it because it
Speaker 1: was what you knew? I read that you studied history
Speaker 1: and it at UNI. What did you think that would
Speaker 1: lead to? Or was it always with the army in mind?
Speaker 2: That's such a good point, Like the whole I didn't
Speaker 2: I didn't quite know where I was going to fit in,
Speaker 2: and it didn't quite work out who I wanted to be.
Speaker 2: And I wish I had a much better answer for
Speaker 2: you than what I do, but that was my problem.
Speaker 2: I didn't quite know who I was, or what I
Speaker 2: went on to do, or where I wanted to be.
Speaker 2: And that's really what led me to the army. Again,
Speaker 2: I wish it was a much more sophisticated answer, but
Speaker 2: you know, I had exposure to it through my father,
Speaker 2: but that wasn't necessarily the experience that made me want
Speaker 2: to join it, because as far as I was concerned
Speaker 2: in my sort of you know, very insular teenage head,
Speaker 2: the army just forced you to move away from your
Speaker 2: friends every year or so.
Speaker 4: That wasn't necessarily a good thing. What did it?
Speaker 2: Was this girl who was twelve months ahead of me
Speaker 2: in my high school in that particular year, and she
Speaker 2: joined the army, and I just thought I looked up
Speaker 2: to her and thought she was the most.
Speaker 4: Together, balanced person.
Speaker 2: And you know, I suppose that was what I was craving,
Speaker 2: because I think, you know, I could equally looked up
Speaker 2: to someone who was creative, and you know, but that
Speaker 2: wasn't what I was craving. I was craving, you know, rationalization.
Speaker 2: And so I thought, right, she's got it going on.
Speaker 2: She joined the army and she went to military university.
Speaker 2: I thought, well, that's what I could do. I applied
Speaker 2: for other universities and I got in, but I didn't
Speaker 2: know that that's for sure what I wanted to do.
Speaker 2: So the Army was a really great way to get
Speaker 2: a great education and to set me up with some skills.
Speaker 2: And while I figured out what my calling was, I
Speaker 2: knew I could provide good service and do something good
Speaker 2: for the country. So that's how it ended up. It
Speaker 2: was really lack of direction.
Speaker 3: I love that.
Speaker 1: I think actually quite a lot of people, maybe even
Speaker 1: the majority of people, that is their first career choice,
Speaker 1: their first career choice is like process of elimination.
Speaker 3: Still don't know what they want to do.
Speaker 1: Just choose something to delay the decision, but give you
Speaker 1: like a purpose and a direction in the meantime, which
Speaker 1: is you know, it's more normal than you would expect,
Speaker 1: I think, But it's really cool that I think the military,
Speaker 1: as far as I've heard, I have lots of friends
Speaker 1: who are either still in the military or began their
Speaker 1: journey that way or have moved into it. And the
Speaker 1: structure and like the diversity of skills that you gain
Speaker 1: or not you want to end up. You know, with
Speaker 1: a lifelong military career. It does teach you a lot
Speaker 1: that helps army for the world. It does give you
Speaker 1: access to education, It does kind of give you discipline
Speaker 1: and networking and helps you figure out who you are
Speaker 1: in an amazing way. And I yeah, I would have
Speaker 1: Like in other circumstances, I think I could definitely have
Speaker 1: done the same and started my career off that way.
Speaker 1: What was it like as a woman when you started?
Speaker 2: Look, I think when I started, it was it was
Speaker 2: a long time ago. I'm showing my age for sure,
Speaker 2: but it was. You know, a lot has changed since then,
Speaker 2: and I think all lived experiences are very different, right,
Speaker 2: but mine was overall positive. The military will always reflect
Speaker 2: to a degree, will always reflect society so you know,
Speaker 2: can I say that, you know, it's an organization that
Speaker 2: has amazing people.
Speaker 4: Yes?
Speaker 2: Can I also say that it's an organization that has
Speaker 2: people that you know are progressive as others? Absolutely, and
Speaker 2: you see that because again it's the way society is
Speaker 2: so overall positive my lived experience, But what I think,
Speaker 2: you know, I really valued was a hugely diverse career
Speaker 2: working alongside some really remarkable people. And I saw, you know,
Speaker 2: great acts of sacrifice and humility and dedication and passion.
Speaker 2: It's really hard to sum up like a seventeen year career.
Speaker 4: In a few words, but what.
Speaker 2: Stands out, like the good things are the most things
Speaker 2: that stand out for me, which is which is a privilege.
Speaker 4: I recognize that.
Speaker 2: But funny things like I was I was overseas at
Speaker 2: one point, and I was working in an operational headquarters
Speaker 2: and I was the communications officers. I was sort of
Speaker 2: based in the headquarters, but we had teams that were
Speaker 2: going out and you know, on the front line doing
Speaker 2: really you know, really difficult things, and they would sometimes
Speaker 2: go out for three or four days at a time,
Speaker 2: and you know, you never knew when they were going
Speaker 2: to come back. We could sort of see what their
Speaker 2: experiences were, because we would be you know, tracking what
Speaker 2: they were doing and getting their reporting. But the guys
Speaker 2: that were actually out there trying to do some good
Speaker 2: and trying to support the local people were working really hard.
Speaker 2: And sometimes they'd come back in at two or three
Speaker 2: in the morning, having been out there for four days.
Speaker 4: And it was always that balance.
Speaker 2: You know, they knew they were going to be out
Speaker 2: there for a few days, so they'd want to take
Speaker 2: enough food. But the more food you took, the more.
Speaker 4: You had to carry.
Speaker 2: So typically they'd come back hungry at two am, having
Speaker 2: you know, really really worked hard and suffered and you know,
Speaker 2: sacrificed in many cases, and they'd come back and they
Speaker 2: just walk into the barracks and go to bed, and
Speaker 2: I just it would make my heart so sad, because
Speaker 2: I thought, you guys have just been out there. You
Speaker 2: need someone to come and just give you a.
Speaker 4: Hearty thank you. In some cases, that's wildly inappropriate.
Speaker 2: So what I what I did appreciate, and this is
Speaker 2: again just sort of the acts of kindness and humility
Speaker 2: that I'd see.
Speaker 4: You'd get.
Speaker 2: The kitchens over there were supported by locals who were
Speaker 2: local contractors who were employed to come in and cook.
Speaker 2: But there would always be some military military chefs that
Speaker 2: were there that would run the kitchen. And these guys
Speaker 2: would always, without a doubt, get up at two am,
Speaker 2: and they were paid more for it, but they just
Speaker 2: put on party pies. So the guys came back, and
Speaker 2: the guys and girls and they had a bit of
Speaker 2: warm food and they had someone there, you know, just
Speaker 2: providing some kindness, and then those sorts of things that
Speaker 2: the funny things that you remember, like that there was
Speaker 2: happy times, sad times, fun times, not so fun times,
Speaker 2: but I like the caring times, I think, and I
Speaker 2: think the thing that I took away from it was,
Speaker 2: you know, you said, what was lack as a woman?
Speaker 2: I was a minority. I was a huge minority. Times
Speaker 2: have changed since, but back then, massive minority. It meant
Speaker 2: that I was very, very comfortable spending a lot of
Speaker 2: time with just men. But it meant that the few
Speaker 2: women I had around me I cherished. I absolutely cherished.
Speaker 2: And these women that I started my military days with
Speaker 2: are still some of my closest confidants and the most incredible, strong,
Speaker 2: resilient women I've ever ever known, and they will always
Speaker 2: be be sisters to me, and I can't be more
Speaker 2: grateful for them. And some of them were mind blowing,
Speaker 2: like they seemed to have it together. They seem to
Speaker 2: really know exactly what they wanted to do and exactly
Speaker 2: who they were, and I didn't, so I just looked
Speaker 2: up to them as well.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's funny what you said about, you know, the
Speaker 1: kindness and humanity being the thing that really stood out.
Speaker 1: And I think the you know, alongside sometimes the worst
Speaker 1: state of humanity that you ever see is often like
Speaker 1: the greatest kindness and selflessness that you will also ever see,
Speaker 1: Like it brings out the better side of humans as well,
Speaker 1: and so you do. I mean, it's probably so much
Speaker 1: to coat with kind of seeing both ends of the spectrum,
Speaker 1: but it is beautiful that the kindness is what you remember.
Speaker 1: And even just the fact that you said military chefs.
Speaker 1: I think when people think of the military, I think
Speaker 1: of you like already to go on the front line,
Speaker 1: you know, with all your battle gear, wall paint on.
Speaker 1: But of course it's easy to forget as a civilian
Speaker 1: that like, the army needs chefs, the army needs lawyers,
Speaker 1: the army needs like all the roles that normal society
Speaker 1: need the army also needs that involves not only actually
Speaker 1: going into battle. You know, there are so many things
Speaker 1: you can do in the army. So what were your
Speaker 1: roles and did they shift kind of obviously over seventeen years,
Speaker 1: what were the different things you did and how you
Speaker 1: moved between them and even going overseas, like where were
Speaker 1: you stationed and how long was that for? And you
Speaker 1: know what did that career allow you to do?
Speaker 2: So much diversity, Sarah, And that's one of the things
Speaker 2: I really loved so training roles. Was a trainee for
Speaker 2: a long time, but then I also would go back
Speaker 2: to those training institutions as an instructor, so in a training.
Speaker 4: Sort of teaching role.
Speaker 2: That was really good to sort of have the ability
Speaker 2: to shape and educate others. Liaison roles, so sort of
Speaker 2: working with outside of defense and working with other government departments,
Speaker 2: and that was really interesting because you could see sort
Speaker 2: of how the bigger system works and really how it
Speaker 2: all comes together to provide capability. And you know, effectively
Speaker 2: you're an arm of the government, so you're helping them
Speaker 2: operational role and that is you know, in units that
Speaker 2: were sort of there, they exist in order to provide
Speaker 2: that capability overseas should it be required, and that comes
Speaker 2: with you know, a lot of different skills. And if
Speaker 2: I sort of try and put it into terms that
Speaker 2: are less military, you know, there's governance, and there's you know,
Speaker 2: financial delegations, and there's training programs and resource management.
Speaker 4: All of those things exist, we just call them more
Speaker 4: military terms.
Speaker 2: But doing all of these, all of those things, that's
Speaker 2: all part of it.
Speaker 4: So yeah, just lots of really different jobs.
Speaker 2: I also spent a year studying at their Defense Force
Speaker 2: School of Languages, which was so privileged, so lots of
Speaker 2: good memories there.
Speaker 4: Yeah, really really diverse role, and.
Speaker 2: My specialty was communications, but I found myself working outside
Speaker 2: of that role as much as I was working in it. Wow.
Speaker 1: I don't know, if you know, A one of my
Speaker 1: big not passions, and I don't know if it's really
Speaker 1: a passion because I don't I'm not involved in the military,
Speaker 1: but I find the military so fascinating. It's one of
Speaker 1: the things I read up extensively on. I have my
Speaker 1: grandfather's have war journals like. I find that stuff so interesting.
Speaker 1: But languages are my great passion. I studied all languages
Speaker 1: in my arts degree at UNI, and So the opportunity
Speaker 1: to study languages inside the military, to me, that's like
Speaker 1: the coolest thing ever. What languages did you learn and
Speaker 1: did you get to use them in practice?
Speaker 3: They so cool?
Speaker 4: It was. It was a pretty amazing opportunity.
Speaker 2: And you know, languages ease up just one and I
Speaker 2: struggled with that still. So anyone who can speak multiple languages,
Speaker 2: I'm just in awe. I learned Mandarin and I just
Speaker 2: loved it, absolutely loved it. Loved the you know, the
Speaker 2: cultural side as well. And I saw learning a language
Speaker 2: as kind of finding a more broad way.
Speaker 4: To express yourself.
Speaker 2: So you know, you know, you know the word for
Speaker 2: heart in English, knowing it in two languages to me,
Speaker 2: just gives it more meaning. You know, there's more heart
Speaker 2: when you can say it in a couple of different ways.
Speaker 2: But I loved it, and it was going to be
Speaker 2: quite military specific language, so you know, I was hoping
Speaker 2: to be able to speak about bilateral relations and you know,
Speaker 2: those sorts of topics. But that it's such a perishable skill,
Speaker 2: that's all gone.
Speaker 3: I'm sure the muscle memory would be there, dormant.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So that's a lack of discipline on my behalf.
Speaker 2: But I did love it. I absolutely loved it, and
Speaker 2: it led to other things which we'll get into later.
Speaker 4: I think.
Speaker 3: Lovely neighborhood.
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Speaker 1: show notes for you to check it out. I mean,
Speaker 1: a seventeen year military career is like for a lot
Speaker 1: of people, you know, that's that's the big part, the
Speaker 1: big chunk of the way ta or the path ya.
Speaker 1: But that was just the start for you that then
Speaker 1: launched into being an antarctic and arctic expeditionally that which
Speaker 1: is not the most straightforward thing that comes after, and
Speaker 1: that's still not even the point where you know, we're
Speaker 1: at at this point in time now, So can you
Speaker 1: talk to us about what the next chapter was? But
Speaker 1: also how you know when you're ready for a new chapter,
Speaker 1: because I think people don't necessarily know when they're agitating
Speaker 1: for change and then how to execute that change. And
Speaker 1: it's easy to become not complacent, but to sit in
Speaker 1: one thing that you're familiar with for a really long time,
Speaker 1: and especially if there's lots of diversity and ladders to
Speaker 1: climb and directions to go, you know, it's I think
Speaker 1: some people don't ever walk away from the chapter they
Speaker 1: start in so how did you make that big shift
Speaker 1: into a whole new chapter.
Speaker 2: Yes, so right, like it is scary, I think is
Speaker 2: the term I would use to leave the security of
Speaker 2: a full time job that you know you can do
Speaker 2: and you know you can and find stability. And so
Speaker 2: I didn't seek it. I wasn't looking for a change.
Speaker 2: I really loved my service and I felt like I
Speaker 2: was doing good. But it presented and it came at
Speaker 2: a time where you know, they're serving in their military.
Speaker 2: For me, anyway, was very much it was a lifestyle choice.
Speaker 2: It wasn't just a job because you committed. I committed
Speaker 2: so much to it at the cost in many ways
Speaker 2: of time with my family, and my mum was unwell,
Speaker 2: and I really felt like I wanted to, you know,
Speaker 2: spend a bit more time with her. And you can,
Speaker 2: you can go into the military and choose jobs that
Speaker 2: are a little less demanding, but that wasn't what I
Speaker 2: loved about it. So it's sort of it came at
Speaker 2: a time where there were a few things making me,
Speaker 2: I suppose, just question whether I wanted to give at
Speaker 2: that same level. But really, I think I could sum
Speaker 2: it up just by saying the opportunity presented, and I
Speaker 2: think I would have regretted not trying and not taking it.
Speaker 3: Wow, And so how did it come about?
Speaker 1: I also love that reminder that you know, sometimes you
Speaker 1: go out seeking the next chapter. Sometimes you don't know
Speaker 1: you're already until it arrives on your lap. And who
Speaker 1: is it that says something about being where the lightning strikes,
Speaker 1: Like you know, sometimes you don't actually need to be
Speaker 1: actively seeking something else else, but you do need to
Speaker 1: be overminded when it does actually come your way. Was
Speaker 1: it literally met like were you already in Antarctica or
Speaker 1: in the Arctic?
Speaker 4: No? So it started because of my most amazing mother.
Speaker 2: So she decided to get my dad a birthday present
Speaker 2: for his sixtieth birthday, and I feel indulge me.
Speaker 4: For just a moment.
Speaker 2: My dad, who'd spent his time in the military, was
Speaker 2: always obsessed with the heroic age of Antarctic exploration.
Speaker 4: Think you know Ernest Shackleton.
Speaker 2: And so Robert Falcom Scott and all of these really
Speaker 2: you know, impressive pioneers of poul of travel. He was
Speaker 2: obsessed to the point where when he was five, he'd
Speaker 2: come up to me and say, Allison, who was in
Speaker 2: Scott's last push to get to the South Pole, and
Speaker 2: what did they die on the way home? And that's
Speaker 2: honestly a little morbid. But I thought that was standard
Speaker 2: questioning required a five year olds. I thought that's what
Speaker 2: everyone's dad's were. It turns out not. It turns out
Speaker 2: he was just a bit obsessed, and you know, he
Speaker 2: it was just his interest, his hobby. So for his
Speaker 2: sixtieth birthday, my mom gave him a trip to Antarctica.
Speaker 4: It was a big.
Speaker 2: Surprise, and she gave him my brother, my sister, and
Speaker 2: I and I suppose the most beautiful part is my
Speaker 2: mom was sick at the time with a chronic illness,
Speaker 2: and so she sent the four people she loved most
Speaker 2: in the world on the trip of a lifetime, knowing
Speaker 2: she could never go.
Speaker 4: I know, she's just beautiful.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, she did. Oh what a beautiful woman.
Speaker 4: She's amazing, and she's since passed.
Speaker 2: So it's her legacy that, like, I went to Antarctica
Speaker 2: and I just felt a little bit changed for it.
Speaker 2: I know Antarctica does that to a lot of people,
Speaker 2: lots of travel, lots of experiences do but you know,
Speaker 2: just provided this perspective and the perspective was I felt
Speaker 2: like I got down there and you feel the enormity
Speaker 2: of the place. It is so vast and so wild,
Speaker 2: and you are such a small small part of what
Speaker 2: feels like a beautiful, complex and massive ecosystem, and like
Speaker 2: I just I really felt changed for it. So I
Speaker 2: came back after that was a great family trip, thank
Speaker 2: you Mum, and came back and continue to serve and
Speaker 2: love it. But it was in my head, it was
Speaker 2: like there was this call to return that I had
Speaker 2: never really felt, you know, felt before, and I just
Speaker 2: I really wanted to get back there. And so the
Speaker 2: company that I went with on that fabulous trip was
Speaker 2: seeking to expand and they were looking for Mandarin linguists. No, yeah,
Speaker 2: and I knew I wasn't a good one. I knew
Speaker 2: I could speak about bilateral relations, but I could speak
Speaker 2: about England's.
Speaker 3: I couldn't speak practical.
Speaker 2: I couldn't speak about you know, glaciers and icebergs. So
Speaker 2: I knew I was going to be pretty subpar. But
Speaker 2: I was transparent about that upfront. But you know, they
Speaker 2: saw it as sort of a gesture. They know he's
Speaker 2: someone that can start out program and will just get better.
Speaker 4: And thankfully they did get a lot better than me.
Speaker 2: They now have very very impressive mansion linguists, and they've
Speaker 2: moved me on to other jobs because I was really
Speaker 2: quite rubbish at that. But that's what got me in
Speaker 2: the door, and I'm so so so grateful for that
Speaker 2: because now I get to go to the Antarctic and
Speaker 2: the Arctic as well. Then they're both so beautiful and
Speaker 2: so different, and I work with the most incredible people.
Speaker 2: They are outdoor nerds, and as far as I'm concerned,
Speaker 2: they're just the you know, the most fabulous, beautiful teams.
Speaker 4: And every time I go, I'm humbled by the place.
Speaker 4: It is.
Speaker 2: It is not to be trifled with. You can't you
Speaker 2: can't take any arrogance to those wild places, and it
Speaker 2: is it is just beauty upon beauty every time.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, I can't even fathom. But I have
Speaker 1: had experiences, not in Antarctica, but with vastness, like vastness
Speaker 1: to the point of almost agrophobia, where you just kind
Speaker 1: of like, do I exist? Like there is nothing you know,
Speaker 1: existential though, but you don't. There's too much noise and
Speaker 1: stuff normally in your life to ever get to that point.
Speaker 1: But like we were in the outback in the Flint's
Speaker 1: Rangers recently, and that vastness of like there is nothing
Speaker 1: for like kilometers and kilometers and kilometers and you can
Speaker 1: see the moon and like you do have like this
Speaker 1: weird existential moment of like am I alive?
Speaker 3: Like I'm so tiny? Like what is time? What is space?
Speaker 3: What is humanity?
Speaker 1: And like nothing measures up to those experiences. Once you've
Speaker 1: had one of being like it's vastness, I think that
Speaker 1: brings it on and like it's just I know what
Speaker 1: you mean, You're forever changed. And then you kind of
Speaker 1: come back into the city and you're like, oh, I
Speaker 1: can't I can't be the same as I.
Speaker 2: Was before that, you said, really really beautifully and amusingly.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's my brain was literally like ah. And we
Speaker 1: had this saying like Nick and I, you know, done
Speaker 1: the humalayas and like big just gigantic natural formations where
Speaker 1: human life is not as widespread as it is here.
Speaker 3: It just does something to you.
Speaker 1: And I think I'm not one hundred percent sure yet,
Speaker 1: but I think I get the chance to visit Antarctica
Speaker 1: at the end of this year, and I'm so so
Speaker 1: excited because I think like it's one of those complete
Speaker 1: perspective shifting, transformative experiences, and I can't imagine being an
Speaker 1: explanition leader there, Like that is so extraordinary.
Speaker 4: I feel like I need to talk to you more
Speaker 4: about this, about this.
Speaker 2: Yeah, wow, I really hope you get to go.
Speaker 1: Oh, oh my gosh, I can't. Oh, so you did
Speaker 1: that for eight years before, like another big kind of
Speaker 1: quantum shift happened in your orbit In that chapter leaving
Speaker 1: the military, I can imagine like going into a civilian,
Speaker 1: structured life, but also not not exactly a conventional life.
Speaker 1: Let's be real, going back and forward from Antarctica, what
Speaker 1: was that chapter?
Speaker 3: Like? What was you know? I think we all often
Speaker 3: live like so far in the future of like is
Speaker 3: this forever? What is this going to mean?
Speaker 1: Were you just living in the moment and you know,
Speaker 1: were you like I'm going to move, I want to
Speaker 1: live here, Like what was your kind of head doing
Speaker 1: in terms of your pathway at that time?
Speaker 4: That's such a nice question.
Speaker 2: It was kind of reeling because I had taken this
Speaker 2: massive leap and I probably wouldn't have done it without
Speaker 2: seeing some at least having exposure to that through you know,
Speaker 2: some other really raven cool people that I'd met along
Speaker 2: the way, mostly skiing actually, you know, looking at people
Speaker 2: that work in those.
Speaker 4: Sorts of industries and yeah, that make it work.
Speaker 2: So you know, I think the transition wasn't as jarring
Speaker 2: as what it could have been because I felt like
Speaker 2: I was still working in small teams, which is which
Speaker 2: felt very very comfortable to me. We were still working
Speaker 2: in pretty extreme environments, which also felt very very natural
Speaker 2: and comfortable in Zahweh, Antarctica and never, you don't never
Speaker 2: want to be comfortable and complacent. But that part wasn't
Speaker 2: the hard part, And the thing I liked was coming
Speaker 2: in with with no I suppose baggage. You know, the
Speaker 2: military is a small place and you know, mostly people
Speaker 2: know you, and I suppose there is a rank structure.
Speaker 2: I mean that it's not terribly important or facets of it,
Speaker 2: but you know, you wear it on your uniform and
Speaker 2: so people see you and immediately associate what experiences you
Speaker 2: have and what responsibilities you might have based on that rank. Like,
Speaker 2: there's not a lot of judgment with it, That's not
Speaker 2: what I'm trying to say, but you know, there is
Speaker 2: an expectation, and so I came into an organization that
Speaker 2: you don't have that expectation. You know, it's just up
Speaker 2: to you to be who you are and for them
Speaker 2: to see you on merit without that initial perception of expectation.
Speaker 2: And I came here like right at the at the
Speaker 2: lowest level too, and you know, it was kind of
Speaker 2: cool to work your way back up through an organization
Speaker 2: and sort of learn and then gain that extra responsibility
Speaker 2: over time. So those things were kind of really refreshing.
Speaker 2: I quite like that about it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's really cool because I think sometimes in making
Speaker 1: such a big shift, particularly out of the military, I've found,
Speaker 1: like a couple of other guests who have had careers
Speaker 1: after their time in service have found unwrapping their identity
Speaker 1: from that structure and prestige but also recognition of rank
Speaker 1: and that kind of thing actually was a really hard
Speaker 1: part of their identity to let go of. But I
Speaker 1: love the perspective that it can also be very refreshing
Speaker 1: because suddenly you aren't defined in a certain box or
Speaker 1: in a certain way just on arrive, like on site,
Speaker 1: people already know something about you. That's really cool that
Speaker 1: it can also be liberating.
Speaker 2: But tell you what I did find though, like in
Speaker 2: the military as a sort of a military person. I
Speaker 2: think I would have described myself as quite sort of
Speaker 2: a nurturing and not always I didn't always get it right,
Speaker 2: but you know, more on the gentle sort of military sign.
Speaker 2: You know, there's some really strong people, and I never
Speaker 2: considered myself that. I was always kind of a bit
Speaker 2: more gently gently. So when I went to a civilian
Speaker 2: organization my baseline where I was in the military, you know,
Speaker 2: very very democratic and very very gentle. Transferring exactly the
Speaker 2: same personality to another organization, I was hard and I
Speaker 2: had to really tone it down because their baseline is
Speaker 2: just very different. And that was a huge learning for me.
Speaker 2: I thought, oh no, this is a different organization, and
Speaker 2: I thought, the military it represents our society, and it
Speaker 2: does in some ways.
Speaker 4: But you know, the diversity I.
Speaker 2: Found in working in a multinational team in the middle
Speaker 2: of international waters was so fabulous. I just I saw
Speaker 2: different styles of leadership that you know, it's not that
Speaker 2: the military wouldn't cope with them, it's just that these
Speaker 2: types of leaders probably would never be attracted to the military, right,
Speaker 2: you know, And that diversity, gosh, it was so nourishing
Speaker 2: and so enriching, and I really I grew massively as
Speaker 2: a human for having that experience outside of the military
Speaker 2: as well.
Speaker 3: That is so cool.
Speaker 1: And I'll also just point out to our audience that
Speaker 1: Allison is not extraordinarily high. That's her dog in the
Speaker 1: background and making the little noises. It sounded like it
Speaker 1: was a tummy grumble, but it was the dot no
Speaker 1: It's so beautiful. I feel like Paul at some point,
Speaker 1: would you'p in. People in our audiences are very familiar
Speaker 1: with dog noises on this show, so speaking of dog
Speaker 1: it's really really cool to me that again the next
Speaker 1: dot point so far and definitely not the last dot
Speaker 1: point I'm sure is again completely not the logical step
Speaker 1: that you would expect. So I don't think that the
Speaker 1: connection between antarctica and maggots seems especially straightforward, nor does
Speaker 1: maggots to dog food. But you have somehow tied all
Speaker 1: the dots together. What in your life, like the daily
Speaker 1: life of you know, doing expeditions in Antarctica led you
Speaker 1: to a sustainable dog food business. And also I did
Speaker 1: forget to ask in that role in Antarctica, like how
Speaker 1: long were you there and what was your day to
Speaker 1: day that like, you know, when you lead someone on expedition,
Speaker 1: how long is that?
Speaker 3: What are you doing?
Speaker 1: Sorry, that's eight hundred questions in one go. I'm obviously
Speaker 1: too fascinated by you. Whatever you like to answer, answer
Speaker 1: it in that order.
Speaker 2: So Antarctica and the Arctic both equally as beautiful and
Speaker 2: as amazing. And you know, our trips where we're ship based,
Speaker 2: it's tourism, and you know, we try and make it
Speaker 2: as responsible tourism as possible. It's ship based, and the
Speaker 2: trips can go anywhere from say nine days up to
Speaker 2: twenty two days in the Antarctic and sort of similar
Speaker 2: spans in the Arctic as well. And our aim is
Speaker 2: that the ships are beautiful, but our aim is to
Speaker 2: actually not be on the ships. Our aim is to
Speaker 2: get into the wild. And so what that normally looks
Speaker 2: like is getting off the ship if possible, twice a day,
Speaker 2: so after breakfast, between breakfast and lunch out doing something amazing,
Speaker 2: and then equally after lunch before dinner out doing something amazing,
Speaker 2: and then just really back on the ship eating. We
Speaker 2: also have a really an education program I'm really proud of.
Speaker 2: So we have all of these specialists, glaciologists, ornithologists, that's
Speaker 2: that's bird peoples, historians, photographers, all of these really technically
Speaker 2: specialist people, and they really shine when they get to
Speaker 2: provide context to everything that a fabulous guests is seeing,
Speaker 2: you know, they bring it to life by For instance,
Speaker 2: the first time I saw a blue whale, oh my god,
Speaker 2: it was amazing. I can't even tell you how incredible
Speaker 2: it was. But I had a marine biologist with me,
Speaker 2: and it was two am and we'd seen it, and
Speaker 2: it was my first blue whale. And she was just
Speaker 2: beside herself with excitement as well, because this is like
Speaker 2: a once in our lifetime viewing.
Speaker 4: It really is.
Speaker 2: You don't get to see these remarkable things very often.
Speaker 2: And she said, we have to wake up the ship.
Speaker 4: We have to tell everyone.
Speaker 2: So we did, and she gets on, she gets on
Speaker 2: the public addressed system, she has everyone get out here.
Speaker 2: There is a blue whale. You have to come and
Speaker 2: see it. And then she just keeps telling about it.
Speaker 2: She's right, everyone, this blue whale. These guys are the
Speaker 2: size of a seven four seven is the size of
Speaker 2: a small a child can swim through at say Orta Like,
Speaker 2: she just provides all of these beautiful little things that
Speaker 2: make you realize that this this creature will not functionally
Speaker 2: exist on land. It is so so big that it
Speaker 2: will just be completely impractical. And you know they get
Speaker 2: I just work with these people that get really passionate
Speaker 2: about what they're doing and how they how they deliver
Speaker 2: this education.
Speaker 4: So it really it really brings a place to life.
Speaker 4: And it's oh my.
Speaker 3: Gosh, that just makes me so excited.
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, my passion is listening to other
Speaker 1: people talk about what they're passionate about, but particularly in
Speaker 1: areas of passion that are not super common or that
Speaker 1: aren't you know, you don't graduate school thinking I'm going
Speaker 1: to be a glaciologist, like who even knows that they exist?
Speaker 1: But that is so cool, Oh my gosh, pretty amazing.
Speaker 1: And so how did then the idea for a dog
Speaker 1: food business come about? I know that it was like
Speaker 1: linked in with the impact of climate change, which is
Speaker 1: alarmingly more visible in a landscape as vast and perhaps
Speaker 1: and not as blocked by kind of noise and business
Speaker 1: in the city life.
Speaker 3: But how does that translate into dog food?
Speaker 4: Can you hear my dog in the background going.
Speaker 3: Well, I can tell you the story.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the link makes sense in yeah, it's a tenuous one,
Speaker 2: but it was logical to me because I was seeing
Speaker 2: the effects of the way I was living my life
Speaker 2: at home in Australia, and I was seeing the effects
Speaker 2: of that in these beautiful places that I'd completely fallen
Speaker 2: in love with. And what I was finding is that
Speaker 2: every fifteen to twenty days we would take a whole
Speaker 2: bunch of you know, fantastic new people down and they
Speaker 2: would fall in love with it as well. So I thought, well,
Speaker 2: here we have a captive audience. Antarctica is an incredible place,
Speaker 2: but it has no technical borders, it has no elected government,
Speaker 2: it has no currency, it has no native population. So
Speaker 2: you know, it's got some great treaties around it that
Speaker 2: protect it, but it doesn't have a voice in the
Speaker 2: same way that you know, Australia has a voice. So
Speaker 2: what I hoped to do was have, you know, give
Speaker 2: people this experience as an expedition leader. I hope that
Speaker 2: I could make them love it as much as I did,
Speaker 2: so that they would go away and think that is
Speaker 2: worth conserving, That is worth worth you know, making a
Speaker 2: small change or you know, advocating for in my future
Speaker 2: when I return home. And so you know, the people
Speaker 2: that go to Antactic. Honestly, I wish every person on
Speaker 2: the planet could go there, but they're not cheap trips
Speaker 2: to really save up to go on them. So the
Speaker 2: people that were going were often educated. And I don't
Speaker 2: want to I don't want to generalize too much, but
Speaker 2: you know, the main demographic is someone who's educated, is
Speaker 2: either save for a long time and done really well
Speaker 2: to tick off this massive, massive trip, or you know,
Speaker 2: actually comes from a fairly wealthy background. And if that's
Speaker 2: the case, then they're in a really privileged position where
Speaker 2: they they might be able to speak with their money
Speaker 2: and they might be able to shop their values.
Speaker 4: So my aim was to I can fall in love
Speaker 4: with it. Falling in love with it, which honestly.
Speaker 2: Is nothing to do with me the places by themselves,
Speaker 2: but at least provide the opportunity for them to do that,
Speaker 2: and hope that they might go and do this, and
Speaker 2: I advocate for it. So I did this by then
Speaker 2: putting together a bit of a presentation about, you know,
Speaker 2: the state of the world and as it is in
Speaker 2: terms of our climates, and also by showcasing not in
Speaker 2: a super grim depressing way, but by showcasing what people
Speaker 2: are doing out there that could inspire them to do
Speaker 2: just that, to shop their.
Speaker 4: Values or to be part of the change.
Speaker 2: And so I'd come across these companies they were doing
Speaker 2: amazing things, and I'd talk about them and highlight them,
Speaker 2: and in doing so, I came across a couple of
Speaker 2: companies that were trying.
Speaker 4: To fix two problems. Firstly, a waste problem.
Speaker 2: That is to say, a lot of organic matter is
Speaker 2: sent to landfill where it decomposes and produces greenhouse gases
Speaker 2: and you know, often methane, which is particularly potent greenhouse gas.
Speaker 2: So there's a big waste problem, and there still is
Speaker 2: a big waste problem. So there was companies that were
Speaker 2: solving both a waste problem and a protein problem. The
Speaker 2: protein problem is that the animal agriculture industry, and we've
Speaker 2: got some really great innovations in Australia improving it, but
Speaker 2: the animal agriculture industry typically has quite a high carbon footprint,
Speaker 2: and so these companies were using insects to solve a
Speaker 2: waste problem and to provide sustainable protein. So I started
Speaker 2: talking about these just as you know, random things that
Speaker 2: people were doing. And then I'd come back to Australia,
Speaker 2: and I think, you know, here I am taking people
Speaker 2: to Antarctica and the Arctic and then talking about how
Speaker 2: we can all make choices that will hopefully help help
Speaker 2: these places. I really have to start practicing what I preach,
Speaker 2: so I thought, well, maybe I can. I can make
Speaker 2: some sustainable protein too, And that's how it started.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, I get just so excited hearing how
Speaker 1: like small tiny foundations or people you meet, or conversations
Speaker 1: you have all start to add up to, Like you
Speaker 1: can see the momentum building, Like the snowball starts, tiny snowball.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, in Antarctica, the snowball starts, but it
Speaker 1: starts to roll as you get more momentum and excitement
Speaker 1: and start, you know, working with like how what products
Speaker 1: would it be like filling the gaps and the jigsaw
Speaker 1: puzzle piece starts to come together.
Speaker 3: It just makes me so excited hearing about it.
Speaker 1: But also it's particularly I feel like sometimes almost always
Speaker 1: actually things come into your orbit for a reason, and
Speaker 1: often all at the same time. And I spent last
Speaker 1: night at the banks Heer Sustainability Awards with Lorel, who
Speaker 1: I've been working with and have just been speaking about
Speaker 1: like plastic eating enzymes and oh, it's just like, oh,
Speaker 1: we were meant to have this conversation today. It's just
Speaker 1: I'm getting so passionate and excited about other people who
Speaker 1: are passionate and excited about bringing our awareness to the
Speaker 1: statistics about climate change and the environment that we're not
Speaker 1: talking about enough, but making it and packaging up it
Speaker 1: in ways that engage people to realize, you know, we
Speaker 1: need to do something, but also it can be cool
Speaker 1: and exciting to do it, like that food. Yeah, So
Speaker 1: how did that next step of okay, sustainable proteins then
Speaker 1: convert into a business Because you know, a lot of
Speaker 1: people have great ideas and they see gaps that need
Speaker 1: to be filled, but actually doing that and getting a
Speaker 1: whole product off the ground. It's hard enough when the
Speaker 1: product exists, but when it doesn't and no one's really
Speaker 1: done it before and it's new technology, and like, I know,
Speaker 1: you know, you've got a zero waste business model that
Speaker 1: in itself is enormously difficult. How did you get feed
Speaker 1: for thought, coolest name, by the way off the ground?
Speaker 2: Much like you've just highlighted, it wasn't necessarily a linear,
Speaker 2: a linear or natural process so I knew I wanted
Speaker 2: to work with these phenomenal insects because they are just
Speaker 2: their environmental warriors. So I decided to start an insect
Speaker 2: farm and start really learning about these insects. And you know,
Speaker 2: it is every girl's dream to be a maggot farmer.
Speaker 3: So absolutely I'm living.
Speaker 4: What do you do? I'm a maggot farmer.
Speaker 1: It's really glam yeah.
Speaker 2: So and I can't even say that anymore. I'm no
Speaker 2: longer growing my own insects. But what I spent a.
Speaker 4: Year and a half learning how to do that.
Speaker 2: And you know, seeing that whatever you feed the insects
Speaker 2: when they're growing, when they're in lava form, you know
Speaker 2: that will result in a different nutrition makeup and at
Speaker 2: the other end, so you know, really understanding that process.
Speaker 2: And I thought I was going to do something with
Speaker 2: that insect farm. When I started, I thought, yep, I'm
Speaker 2: going to grow sustainable protein and sell sustainable protein.
Speaker 4: But you've got to kind of work out what you're going.
Speaker 2: To sell sustainable protein too, And I thought, well, what
Speaker 2: I would do is showcase what you could turn it into,
Speaker 2: so that will get investors to come in and help
Speaker 2: me scale up insect farm, because it's huge technology and
Speaker 2: huge investment to take it from a really mandrolic process
Speaker 2: into a technologically advanced, scalable system. So I thought, I know,
Speaker 2: I will show what it can be used for. And
Speaker 2: at that point I'd sort of had been researching what
Speaker 2: it can be used for.
Speaker 4: And there was some.
Speaker 2: Really great companies in the UK and in Europe and
Speaker 2: in eating Canada that we're using this particular insect in
Speaker 2: dog food because it serendipitously has some really great fatty
Speaker 2: acids and some really great vitamins and minerals that are
Speaker 2: are conducive to a dog's diet. So I got a
Speaker 2: vet on board. I knew this wonderful, wonderful, incredibly talented,
Speaker 2: astute and intelligent vet, and I said, is this a thing?
Speaker 2: Can we try this? And she did a bunch of
Speaker 2: research and we eventually realized that we could. We could
Speaker 2: make dog food out of this protein.
Speaker 4: So we did.
Speaker 2: We came up with a recipe, and then I realized
Speaker 2: that I was an idiot because you can't, well, I
Speaker 2: couldn't do all of this scaling of the insect farm
Speaker 2: and then grow a dog food business, which I was
Speaker 2: really laughing, and my dog was loving, so use one
Speaker 2: or the other. So I thought, I know, there's some
Speaker 2: other really great fly farmers in Australia, but there's no
Speaker 2: one turning it into dog food. I can use their
Speaker 2: insects and make it into my dog food. And so
Speaker 2: that's what we did, and that's what we sort of
Speaker 2: spent the next year or so formulating and testing and
Speaker 2: coming out with a product.
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, that's so extraordinary. I just love seeing
Speaker 3: how it all like.
Speaker 1: It didn't even start as dog food. You know, I
Speaker 1: think people really have this misconception that you have to
Speaker 1: start out with like a five year plan and know
Speaker 1: exactly where you're going. And you know, you can just
Speaker 1: start with an idea that then evolves very quickly into
Speaker 1: a totally different idea, but you just have to start.
Speaker 1: And then once you start, everything all else kind of
Speaker 1: falls into place.
Speaker 2: And sure it's not ideal, like ideally I would have
Speaker 2: had a really robust and workable business plan that knew
Speaker 2: exactly what I was going to do and exactly how
Speaker 2: it's going to sell.
Speaker 4: But it's just not what happened. And I'm okay with
Speaker 4: that now.
Speaker 3: Absolutely extraordinary. So how long ago was that? And you
Speaker 3: know where are you at with the business now?
Speaker 4: So that was.
Speaker 2: Twenty nineteen when I started that, and I launched a
Speaker 2: a commercial product in September last year, so.
Speaker 4: I've been a goose for a few months with the
Speaker 4: dog freed.
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, it's brand new.
Speaker 1: Well, I'll have to include some links in the show
Speaker 1: notes so that we can all get feed for thought
Speaker 1: for our little fur babies. But also, I mean, you're
Speaker 1: literally doing such a huge amount of work on combating
Speaker 1: I was reading the twenty two percent of greenhouse gas
Speaker 1: emissions are caused by organic waste in landfill and animal agriculture,
Speaker 1: which just blows my mind. So, I mean, how exciting
Speaker 1: that this is what it's all culminated. And I'm so
Speaker 1: excited for you. Congratulations, Ah, thank you.
Speaker 2: I feel so privileged and you're right, like it's really
Speaker 2: just it's showcasing the value of the circular economy.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 2: I get to take unused food, feed it to an insect.
Speaker 2: That insect grows into a protein, so they take food,
Speaker 2: they turn themselves into food, and then I put that
Speaker 2: into more food and it just works so well.
Speaker 3: It is so cool. I love that we were talking
Speaker 3: at the Bank Zery World.
Speaker 1: Last night there was a lot of you know, discussions
Speaker 1: about circular farming and circular fashion and circular everything, and
Speaker 1: one of the guys has is doing a really sustainable
Speaker 1: way of producing train lines and it kept saying circular
Speaker 1: train line and I just had this image of like
Speaker 1: a train going around.
Speaker 4: It's so.
Speaker 3: It's not very efficient, but it's incredible.
Speaker 1: The way that businesses are really changing the way that
Speaker 1: they use their power and making it possible to still
Speaker 1: have everything that we have in this life, but in
Speaker 1: a way that has a much more conscious and smaller
Speaker 1: footprint for the planet. It doesn't have to be done
Speaker 1: the way that we've always done it. And you know,
Speaker 1: huge props to you doing this, and especially given how
Speaker 1: randomly you kind of fell into it.
Speaker 3: But it's so cool, thank.
Speaker 2: You, and that that is the ultimate aim, just to
Speaker 2: you know, each of the kilo bags represents forty kilos
Speaker 2: of upcycled food, and I just I get so excited
Speaker 2: when I come across a product that you know, that
Speaker 2: I can use which is not any more inconvenient to
Speaker 2: me but just does some good. And you know, kip cups,
Speaker 2: free range eggs, zero co cleaning products or who gives
Speaker 2: a crap dog food. They are all just good examples
Speaker 2: of products that you know, can you can choose that
Speaker 2: just make you feel good. And that's that's what I want.
Speaker 2: I want you to just people to be able to feel
Speaker 2: good about what they're choosing.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Absolutely.
Speaker 1: I literally just had a box of zero co cleaning
Speaker 1: products delivered, like a whole box of stuff because I
Speaker 1: didn't know that existed until just recently. And I'm like,
Speaker 1: there's like, as a consumer making those swaps, it's not difficult,
Speaker 1: like it No, it can sometimes be a little bit
Speaker 1: more expensive, but if you're as passionate as you know,
Speaker 1: once you hear the difference it makes, then most of
Speaker 1: the time I find like, in your mind that extra
Speaker 1: money it makes no difference when you know that the
Speaker 1: huge difference in impact to the you you're making with
Speaker 1: that choice. It's just but in terms of inconvenience, it's
Speaker 1: no more inconvenient. You just buy it from somewhere else.
Speaker 1: And it's amazing how many options they are out there now.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah exactly, and that I really get excited about that.
Speaker 1: Well, neighborhood, please get around feed for thought, because I
Speaker 1: think you know all our fur babies could benefit so
Speaker 1: much from it, but also the planet and get behind Allison,
Speaker 1: because I mean, what an amazing story. And I've been
Speaker 1: so enamored with your story that I have used the
Speaker 1: entire episode on the story instead of anything else. But that,
Speaker 1: to me is absolutely okay, because it's been such an
Speaker 1: incredible story. But I'd love to just finish by asking
Speaker 1: you about you know, who you are outside of work,
Speaker 1: which is traditionally what I you know, try and talk
Speaker 1: about more because I know the measure of our identity
Speaker 1: is and our productivity. But you've just been so interesting.
Speaker 1: I'm so sorry I've spent so long on what you do,
Speaker 1: not who you are. But how do you play outside
Speaker 1: of all these extraordinary things? What do you do that's
Speaker 1: just for fun?
Speaker 2: I think I get so much enrichment from from my
Speaker 2: family and some really fabulous, phenomenal girlfriends. I think that's
Speaker 2: probably what feels my cup of tea my teak up
Speaker 2: the most. But also I have a dog, and he's amazing,
Speaker 2: and the good thing about him is that he's active.
Speaker 2: He gets me outdoors twice a day every day, and
Speaker 2: even on the days where I don't feel like necessarily
Speaker 2: going out in the rain, I just I do love
Speaker 2: being in the outdoors. I love skiing, I love going
Speaker 2: to Paula Regions. You know, the outdoors is a really
Speaker 2: special place. But you know, I feel a little bit
Speaker 2: inferior when people are like, oh, I have to be
Speaker 2: in the outdoors. Sometimes I actually don't want to. Sometimes
Speaker 2: I want to stay warm if I even if I
Speaker 2: when I go outside, I'm always I always feel better
Speaker 2: for it afterwards. So you know, the outdoors and family
Speaker 2: and friends are really and I love baking too.
Speaker 1: Oh isn't it funny that often, like you know, sometimes
Speaker 1: there'll be a really elaborate answer to this question where
Speaker 1: it's you know, a specific type of pottery or something
Speaker 1: you know, really, but often it's just really simple things
Speaker 1: like just going outside or being with my friends or
Speaker 1: reading a book. Like it's funny how much our lives
Speaker 1: are you know, have strayed so far from the basics,
Speaker 1: but you know we can get a lot of joy
Speaker 1: and pleasure from making time for them somewhere in amongst
Speaker 1: the antarctica and the circular farming and all the incredible.
Speaker 3: Work you're doing.
Speaker 1: Second last question, what are three interesting things about you
Speaker 1: that don't normally come up in conversation.
Speaker 4: HM.
Speaker 2: Again, this goes back to I'm not sure if anyone
Speaker 2: will find these things interesting, but I don't normally talk
Speaker 2: about the fact that I have really immature taste once.
Speaker 3: And that yourself is so immature.
Speaker 2: So I want to like spicy food, but also manifest
Speaker 2: in other ways, like I'm not particularly fond of alcohol
Speaker 2: and drink, and I don't talk about that much because
Speaker 2: I get I got dumped once.
Speaker 4: Oh my god. I'm always really worried that people are
Speaker 4: going to go, oh, you social pariah.
Speaker 1: You were ahead of your time. You know the non
Speaker 1: alcoholic alcohol movement. There's about to be a whole Dan Murphy's.
Speaker 1: That's just non alcoholic alcohol, a whole Dan murphy Store.
Speaker 2: Well, those people that mocked me can jump. I don't
Speaker 2: often lead with that because yeah, I think would be like,
Speaker 2: oh maybe I can't trust you.
Speaker 4: I'm so much fun.
Speaker 3: I'm fun naturally. So there.
Speaker 4: Number two.
Speaker 2: I love Christmas carols, and I love Christmass so much
Speaker 2: that I don't like to wait until December because you
Speaker 2: get so much story for something, why not just play
Speaker 2: them all year?
Speaker 4: So my loty habit is I will often work out
Speaker 4: to Christmas.
Speaker 3: Carols, shut up. That's so cool.
Speaker 1: I love that so much. But I must say, are
Speaker 1: you sure that's not why you were dumped? That you
Speaker 1: were singing Christmas carols in.
Speaker 2: Like you know, may or something.
Speaker 1: I love that You're like, you know what, screw the judgment.
Speaker 1: I will not be put in a box. I will
Speaker 1: not only sing in December.
Speaker 3: It's my happy song, you know, whatever gets you popped up.
Speaker 2: And the last thing, in fact, it's not even about me,
Speaker 2: but I think I have I'm really humble to be
Speaker 2: the human to an incredible dog, my dog Max.
Speaker 4: But the interesting thing.
Speaker 2: About him is that he has he has a face
Speaker 2: full of PTSD post traumatic stress disorder.
Speaker 4: He's a re homed military dog.
Speaker 3: I was gonna say, oh my god, so he's.
Speaker 2: Got PTSD because he didn't quite cut it in that career.
Speaker 2: He was supposed to be an attack dog, but he
Speaker 2: was scared of everything. I think Ducks was the last raw.
Speaker 2: When he went away right away from Ducks, that were like, oh,
Speaker 2: you're just not not the right temperament. So then they
Speaker 2: used him as a training aid and in a training role,
Speaker 2: and they would teach humans to jump out of planes
Speaker 2: with dogs with the training dog, and so he's done.
Speaker 2: He's done about one hundred para jumps.
Speaker 3: And oh my god.
Speaker 4: But he's just he pretty much.
Speaker 2: Assumes that every new person he meets he's going to
Speaker 2: throw him out of a plane.
Speaker 4: So it's just a bit nervous.
Speaker 3: But I don't blame you.
Speaker 1: I'm actually really glad you didn't tell me that before,
Speaker 1: because the entire episode would have been about Max's career.
Speaker 1: And like he's way to ya, because I'm obsessed with dogs.
Speaker 1: I'm obsessed with the military. I'm obsessed with military dogs.
Speaker 3: There's a movie.
Speaker 1: Called Meghan Reed I think it is, which is like
Speaker 1: based on a true story about Meghan and her military dog.
Speaker 3: And one of our listeners.
Speaker 1: Actually recommended to Kate Ryder, who's been on the show
Speaker 1: and he's part of the neighborhood, sent me the DVD
Speaker 1: because she knew I liked dogs and war and like,
Speaker 1: I cried so much, and I just think dogs that
Speaker 1: have jobs are the coolest things in the entire world.
Speaker 1: And Max is like a hero and like a you know,
Speaker 1: global treasure govern ran a little Oh what a beautiful boy.
Speaker 4: He's the sweetest thing.
Speaker 1: Oh and like you know how they have the Harness's
Speaker 1: and they jump in the little hartness.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, it's so cute.
Speaker 2: Any YouTube dogs, they put cameras on the back of dogs,
Speaker 2: and some of them when they jump down and they're released,
Speaker 2: the cameras on and they just go berserk, and so
Speaker 2: the footage is really funny.
Speaker 3: Oh my god.
Speaker 1: Well that's just made my day. That's what I'm going
Speaker 1: to spend the rest of the afternoon doing. Final question,
Speaker 1: Since I love quotes so much, what is your favorite quote?
Speaker 2: Okay, look, my go to is Margaret Mead because she
Speaker 2: says that you know, never doubt that a small group
Speaker 2: of citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only
Speaker 2: thing they ever has. So I do like that one.
Speaker 2: But I think of late, you know, I think everyone
Speaker 2: just needs to certainly for me, you know, you need
Speaker 2: we've come out of a rough couple of years and
Speaker 2: the world can seem like a bit of a grim place.
Speaker 2: And so I really love this one from Tim Minchin,
Speaker 2: which is, don't seek happiness if you think of it
Speaker 2: too much, it goes away. Keep busy and aim to
Speaker 2: make someone else happy, and you might find you get
Speaker 2: some as a side effect.
Speaker 4: And I really really love that.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, that is absolutely beautiful and the perfect
Speaker 1: way to end. Allison, thank you so much. You've been
Speaker 1: absolutely extraordinary. Thank you Emily for the recommendation. It's just
Speaker 1: been a joy, and I hope one day we can
Speaker 1: catch up in person and be best friends forever.
Speaker 4: Thank you, I can. I'm true.
Speaker 2: Ah.
Speaker 1: What an amazing woman Allison is. I feel like after
Speaker 1: every coore guest we have on, I want to become
Speaker 1: them or do what they do and go to the
Speaker 1: Arctic or Antarctic and make a business that's all zero
Speaker 1: carbon and eco friendly and sustainable.
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1: It's kind of like when you go to a new
Speaker 1: city and decide that you want to live there forever.
Speaker 3: But I kind feel like I do that everywhere I go,
Speaker 3: So I really just need to come my farm.
Speaker 1: I'll pop links to Feed for Thought in the show
Speaker 1: notes so you can check out Allison's beautiful business. I
Speaker 1: hope you all have an amazing Easter break, and we'll
Speaker 1: be back with the very related birthday Q and a
Speaker 1: installment of Yay's of our Lives next week. If you
Speaker 1: have any questions at all for A or I or
Speaker 1: both of us, please shoot us a DM or an
Speaker 1: email and we'll include as many as we can. In
Speaker 1: the meantime, I hope you're seizing your yea