Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to MoMA Mia out loud.
Speaker 2: It's what women are actually talking about on Wednesday, the
Speaker 2: twelfth of August.
Speaker 1: I'm Holly Wayne Wright, I'm emm Vernon.
Speaker 3: I'm Amelia Lester.
Speaker 1: And here's what's on our agenda today. A famous politician
Speaker 1: is freezing her eggs and she's documenting her journey for
Speaker 1: us all to see.
Speaker 3: Plus the Brad Pitt profile which everyone is talking about
Speaker 3: and which we can't agree on.
Speaker 1: And another fucking woman. Am I right?
Speaker 2: That is the sentiment we are unpacking today from several
Speaker 2: troubling angles.
Speaker 1: But first, Amelia Lester.
Speaker 3: It's the census question getting every couple in Australia into
Speaker 3: a fight. Yes, yesterday it was Christmas for demographers. It
Speaker 3: was Census night in Australia and the government was stirring
Speaker 3: up shit with one question in particular, which asked, in
Speaker 3: the last week, did this person spend time doing unpaid
Speaker 3: domestic work for their household and if so, how much?
Speaker 3: How many couples do you think are doing the census
Speaker 3: together and getting into huge arguments about whether or not
Speaker 3: the other does more than five hours of household work
Speaker 3: in a week, said one TikTok This TikTok from Lucy Oco,
Speaker 3: I think captures the dynamic happening in many households across
Speaker 3: Australia perfectly.
Speaker 2: Now, this is the question that's getting everyone in Australia
Speaker 2: and it can end up in a fight, which I
Speaker 2: believe ours could.
Speaker 3: In the last week.
Speaker 1: Did Andrew spend time doing unpaid domestic work for their household?
Speaker 3: No? Yes, there's the options are no, yes, did listen?
Speaker 4: No?
Speaker 3: Yes?
Speaker 1: Less than five hours?
Speaker 4: Yes, five to fourteen, yes, fifteen to twenty nine and
Speaker 4: yes thirty hours. Five for it?
Speaker 1: Fuck off?
Speaker 3: Come on, be truth be truthful.
Speaker 1: Well what do you do?
Speaker 3: All right?
Speaker 1: I'm taking less than five.
Speaker 2: All the garden?
Speaker 1: Oh that's true, thank you. Okay, that's an off week.
Speaker 3: That's a rare week. Thanks be for real that she's
Speaker 3: the one filling it in.
Speaker 2: Well he just paces, just pacing around.
Speaker 3: Did this inspire any controversy in your house?
Speaker 2: Look? I saw it was funny because in my house
Speaker 2: I wasn't there right, So the census actually made me
Speaker 2: a bit sad because I'm a rule follower. Emma and
Speaker 2: I had this argument yesterday. I was like, you have
Speaker 2: to fill it in on Tuesday night, like it has
Speaker 2: to be about where you are on Tuesday night, right,
Speaker 2: which I was not at home with my family. I
Speaker 2: was alone in a cheap hotel room.
Speaker 3: The hotel do the sensors.
Speaker 2: So yes, the hotel handed everyone who checked in on
Speaker 2: Tuesday a census, and so I sat in my room.
Speaker 2: And this is by the Bible. I promise, I'm getting
Speaker 2: to your question. So yesterday I was saying to Am
Speaker 2: I feel a bit sad about that, and she was like, well,
Speaker 2: why didn't you just do it on the weekend.
Speaker 1: I'm like, you can't do that. You have to do
Speaker 1: it tonight, am I Right, Well, yeah, you you are right,
Speaker 1: because things could have changed between the weekend and Tuesday.
Speaker 1: I have a very, very like similar routine every single week.
Speaker 1: I knew I was going to be home on Tuesday,
Speaker 1: so I did my senses on the weekend in case
Speaker 1: I was out on Tuesday and I didn't want to
Speaker 1: come home and do the census. It doesn't matter anyway, Holly,
Speaker 1: because your senses is technically wrong because you're actually single
Speaker 1: according to this true, but that's another whole thing.
Speaker 2: It was wouldn't let me tick, de facto, It would
Speaker 2: only let me tick, never married.
Speaker 1: Was on the same page.
Speaker 3: Putting me in the end and never married did have
Speaker 3: a hint of judgment about it.
Speaker 1: Today it's never married loser.
Speaker 3: Which character.
Speaker 2: But back to your household, the housework questions, Amelia, which
Speaker 2: is what we're here to discuss. I think I know
Speaker 2: how many tense arguments that will have that will have
Speaker 2: kicked off. But today I messaged Brent and I said,
Speaker 2: what did you tick? And he said he ticked five hours?
Speaker 2: And I was like, you do way more than that.
Speaker 2: I must be with the only man in the.
Speaker 1: World who underestimates what he does.
Speaker 2: I'm like, you cook all the meals, you run around
Speaker 2: after those children. You're driving them here and doing them there,
Speaker 2: and cleaning up their mess and changing them Like.
Speaker 3: Brent will also probably tell you exactly how tall he is.
Speaker 1: True, so, but I can see this stirring up shit. Absolutely.
Speaker 1: He was probably also the only man in the household
Speaker 1: who was actually doing the sensors instead of just standing.
Speaker 3: Five to fourteen five to fourteen.
Speaker 1: I was like, you're doing the labor right now. US
Speaker 1: Congresswoman Alexandria Occasio Cortez, also known as AOC, has publicly
Speaker 1: revealed on social media that she's in the pro of
Speaker 1: phrasing her eggs, and she's also vlogging her journey and
Speaker 1: posting clips about it. Here's a little snippet.
Speaker 3: Hello, everyone, welcome to my cooking show today.
Speaker 5: Were making eggs.
Speaker 4: Pen the qcaps that occurs. So today is my first ultrasound.
Speaker 4: I don't want to say it's my first ultrasound overall. Basically,
Speaker 4: my first first ultrasound was my fertility check where they
Speaker 4: counted the number of follicles that I had. Now, when
Speaker 4: you go in to get your fertility.
Speaker 1: Checked, they do two things.
Speaker 4: They give you an ultrasound where they count the number
Speaker 4: of follicles that you have, and then they do blood
Speaker 4: work to test something known as your AMH level.
Speaker 1: So in the video, she's showing herself like taking injections.
Speaker 1: She's talking about the costing, and she's also referring to
Speaker 1: the broken US medical system. Later in an interview, she
Speaker 1: said that she she's doing this because she wanted to
Speaker 1: normalize conversations about fertility care, especially in the political environment
Speaker 1: right now. So she's also been doing these things like
Speaker 1: ask Me Anything. So she's doing a lot of content
Speaker 1: on this right She's doing these series on her Instagram stories,
Speaker 1: Ask me any things about the fertility freezing. And recently
Speaker 1: someone asked, overall are people behaving? And I want to
Speaker 1: play her response for you. This is what she said.
Speaker 5: Overall, people have been tremendously positive and supportive, and I've
Speaker 5: received messages from women, you know, girls as young as
Speaker 5: fifteen and women in their late seventies talking about how
Speaker 5: wonderful it's been to see. Of course, there are some
Speaker 5: people who are going to say their thing. There was
Speaker 5: one today that was harping about how old I am
Speaker 5: and whatever.
Speaker 1: And I find it very interesting because a.
Speaker 5: Lot of these people who pressure women into having kids
Speaker 5: at a young age or trying to create hysteria around
Speaker 5: being too old, et cetera. What they're trying to do
Speaker 5: is rush you into having a relationship with a loser.
Speaker 1: A AOC. So if you look at her Instagram right now,
Speaker 1: all like her content that she's making out all of
Speaker 1: these blogs about the processes of freezing at eggs. Alongside
Speaker 1: that she's answering all of these questions, she's going through procedures,
Speaker 1: she's talking about costing, and she also says that she's
Speaker 1: doing this even though she understands there is a political
Speaker 1: risk to doing it. Yeah, because she actually hasn't ruled
Speaker 1: out running for president either.
Speaker 2: That's what I want to hear from you on Amelia right,
Speaker 2: because we're gearing up for.
Speaker 1: Who's it going to be?
Speaker 2: The Democratic candidate? Who's it going to be? And her
Speaker 2: name is always in the hat? Yeah, and she's thirty six.
Speaker 2: I think, so she's finally old in because she was
Speaker 2: only twenty nine when she got elected and she be Kate.
Speaker 2: She was a big deal because she was well, another
Speaker 2: fucking woman to be talking about that.
Speaker 1: She's quite young, because I hear you have to be
Speaker 1: seventy to run for president.
Speaker 2: Is it interesting that she's decided to do this from
Speaker 2: a political person?
Speaker 3: So interesting? I think her superpower is that she is
Speaker 3: a politician who is also a normal person. She was
Speaker 3: a bartender when she ran for the House of Representatives.
Speaker 3: She represents a very smaller liberal seat in New York City,
Speaker 3: and she has kept her humanity even as she has
Speaker 3: now been in Congress for years, seven years. I remember
Speaker 3: early on she was talking on Instagram about her skincare
Speaker 3: routine back when, back at the start of COVID, when
Speaker 3: everyone was obsessed with skin care. She hopped on to
Speaker 3: answer some questions she'd gotten about her skincare routine. I
Speaker 3: love that, which I love because look, she's got to
Speaker 3: get up there in front of the public eye every
Speaker 3: single day and talk, and women are scrutinized for their
Speaker 3: appearance much more than men. And she was honest about
Speaker 3: what she did in order to feel confident in front
Speaker 3: of the camera. And then later on she led the
Speaker 3: charge for the regulations around sunscreen in the US to
Speaker 3: be changed because basically, long story short, the US looks
Speaker 3: at Australia with envy at all of our wonderful sunscreens
Speaker 3: and they wanted more sunscreens like Australia's, but they hadn't
Speaker 3: updated their regulations. That's a topic that's very important to
Speaker 3: young women. And she got on social and said, here's
Speaker 3: why we need to change our sunscreen regulations. And now
Speaker 3: she's taking us on the journey as a thirty six
Speaker 3: year old woman freezing her eggs, which I think is
Speaker 3: it is still quite a brave thing to do. I
Speaker 3: looked into freezing my eggs when I was a few
Speaker 3: years younger than her, many years ago now at this point,
Speaker 3: and it felt really like a secret that I didn't
Speaker 3: want to tell people. About I remember when I went
Speaker 3: to the appointment to see a doctor and I only
Speaker 3: told very few people in my social circle about it.
Speaker 3: There was a sense of, like, it's come to this
Speaker 3: about the whole thing. But she's so matter of fact
Speaker 3: about it. She's so I'm getting on with it.
Speaker 2: What I love about that. The beauty example that you
Speaker 2: gave as well is that these are areas that a
Speaker 2: previous generation of female politicians, and there weren't very many
Speaker 2: of them, let's be honest, would never because you had
Speaker 2: to be like, I'm just like a man.
Speaker 3: Hillary Clinton would literally never tell you about her skin
Speaker 3: carre it.
Speaker 1: But like I'm like a man, yeap, I just look
Speaker 1: like this.
Speaker 2: I don't want you to think about the fact that
Speaker 2: I but that my fertility is a thing. I don't
Speaker 2: want you to think about the fact that I have
Speaker 2: to spend longer than you do getting ready every morning.
Speaker 2: That if I'm talking about lipstick, that makes me frivolous
Speaker 2: and therefore you'll dismiss me. If I'm talking about fertility,
Speaker 2: it means, oh my god, she might have a baby.
Speaker 2: That means she couldn't possibly be president. Those were kind
Speaker 2: of really accepted rules for females stepping into big public arenas.
Speaker 2: And I bet that's why there was a little bit
Speaker 2: of me when I saw this, because it's only this
Speaker 2: week and it's got her a lot of attention, which
Speaker 2: she's a very smart communicator. To your point, Amelia, we've
Speaker 2: been talking about this a lot about politicians who understand
Speaker 2: how to use social media. She is absolutely one of
Speaker 2: those people. A little bit of my programming kind of went, oh,
Speaker 2: but you're going to give people a stick to beat
Speaker 2: you with metaphorically obviously, like in terms of well, you
Speaker 2: can't be president at the timing of this might all
Speaker 2: be you know what I mean, Like this makes you
Speaker 2: start going that way in the same way that I
Speaker 2: think I've probably internalized a lot of stuff about not
Speaker 2: talking too much about hormones, not talking too much about
Speaker 2: what mood swings to do with.
Speaker 1: Your what you always say to.
Speaker 2: Me, em I'm in my face, and I'm always like, sure,
Speaker 2: she's you don't want the men to think you can't.
Speaker 2: And that's just so interesting that my programming makes me
Speaker 2: kind of go, oh, I worry a bit about this,
Speaker 2: whereas her view is like.
Speaker 1: That's so super I don't have to pretend that I'm
Speaker 1: a dude. Yeah, I also thought the same when I
Speaker 1: first saw these videos. I was like, I feel like
Speaker 1: this could be harmful for her campaign. But then the
Speaker 1: other side of me is like, isn't that what we
Speaker 1: want from our politicians, Like we're always so angry that
Speaker 1: our politicians don't understand us because arre in this completely
Speaker 1: different bracket. But here she is actually doing what so
Speaker 1: many women are so sick about, like explaining about how
Speaker 1: the US medical system is broken, and so many women
Speaker 1: are saying that, and now she's actually going through the
Speaker 1: process and outlining everything and doing that for women. Like
Speaker 1: I'm like, this is exactly what we wanted our politicians
Speaker 1: to be doing, to be able to relate to the
Speaker 1: same things that we're doing as well.
Speaker 3: That's a great point. It also dovetails. It happens to
Speaker 3: dovetail with her political perspective, which is she is on
Speaker 3: the far left, the left to the far left of
Speaker 3: the US Democratic Party, which isn't especially far left by
Speaker 3: our standards, but which is standards, And one tenet of
Speaker 3: that part of the party is that they want public
Speaker 3: health care for everyone, which is obviously not something that
Speaker 3: exists in the US. So for her, to be freezing
Speaker 3: her eggs talking about how hard it is to navigate
Speaker 3: a healthcare system that is not freely accessible to everyone.
Speaker 3: It happens to dovetail with her political.
Speaker 2: Pup Anasinek would say, it doesn't happen to dovetail with
Speaker 2: her political platform. It's a very useful you know, we're
Speaker 2: living in an attention economy, right, it's a very useful
Speaker 2: spotlight to shine on that. The other thing that I
Speaker 2: think is interesting about this is there has also been
Speaker 2: a bit of pearl clutching about making egg freezing so
Speaker 2: such a mainstream idea in terms of that that kind
Speaker 2: of fertility treatment doesn't guarantee any success all of these things,
Speaker 2: and some people are very cynical that it just makes
Speaker 2: a lot of money for certain fertility organizations, fertility based organizations,
Speaker 2: well big fi yeah, what we might call big farma,
Speaker 2: And so is that Do you think there's a risk
Speaker 2: there too. Do you think that some people are going
Speaker 2: to be a bit mad with her about this from
Speaker 2: that perspective or do you think that's done?
Speaker 1: I think it's so done. Exactly what she says, like,
Speaker 1: she's not saying that she wants to have a baby
Speaker 1: right now, she just says that she wants to have
Speaker 1: that She's by freezing her egg She's saying she basically
Speaker 1: just wants to have that option if she wants to
Speaker 1: have kids.
Speaker 2: Is she opening a door for people to ask lots
Speaker 2: of questions about her private life? Because what I noticed
Speaker 2: was she was engaged and her fiance was quite like
Speaker 2: part of her campaigning and stuff, and one of the
Speaker 2: FoST Again, I'm admitting a lot of things I'm not
Speaker 2: proud of right now. One of the first things I
Speaker 2: thought when I saw this is I was like, Oh,
Speaker 2: I wonder if she's still with that guy. She's also
Speaker 2: accepting that people are going to talk about her private life,
Speaker 2: right and that so what.
Speaker 1: Well, I think she's getting ahead of it now by
Speaker 1: doing they ask me any things, and by having it
Speaker 1: on her own own social she's putting it out there
Speaker 1: without actually having to answer a questions she doesn't want to,
Speaker 1: basically saying that the reason people get so mad about
Speaker 1: women having children later in life, it's because they essentially
Speaker 1: want you to have kids with a loser. I love
Speaker 1: that life if we don't want to have kids with
Speaker 1: a loser. So if we freeze our eggs, now we
Speaker 1: could eventually have children on our own terms with whoever
Speaker 1: we want.
Speaker 3: There was actually Claudia Golden, who is this Nobel Prize
Speaker 3: winning economist, has recently published a paper that's really changing
Speaker 3: the conversation on this. She says that rather than put
Speaker 3: all the blame for the fertility crisis on women, men
Speaker 3: need to be better so that women want to have
Speaker 3: children with them. So that conversation is shifting, and as usual,
Speaker 3: AOC is riding the wave and is ahead of the
Speaker 3: pack in talking about it.
Speaker 2: When I interviewed Desindra Adun, we talked about that earlier
Speaker 2: this year.
Speaker 1: She and her memoir.
Speaker 2: She talked about how she found out she was pregnant
Speaker 2: with the same time she found out she was going
Speaker 2: to be Prime minister, and that those two things seemed
Speaker 2: like an enormous obvis were enormous life changing moments that
Speaker 2: were colliding. And there's an immediate argument of like, well,
Speaker 2: oh you can't, you can't do that, You can't do
Speaker 2: those two things at once.
Speaker 1: But she, I mean, I known New Zealand and America
Speaker 1: a very different places.
Speaker 2: But she proved that you can't very very with very
Speaker 2: different conversations about these things in different competing forces, the
Speaker 2: kind of working at it, but.
Speaker 1: She proved that you absolutely can.
Speaker 2: And whenever I think about that, I think that it's
Speaker 2: it was often seen as like, oh, you know, almost
Speaker 2: like a sad thing, but actually no man had ever
Speaker 2: achieved what she achieved. It makes her, in my mind,
Speaker 2: like a very impressive person that you could do those
Speaker 2: two things at once.
Speaker 1: Do you think if just Cinda r Dern did what
Speaker 1: AOC was doing and just said that before she was
Speaker 1: running for prime minister she was on a journey to
Speaker 1: appreciate actually was she was actually doing it? No, she didn't.
Speaker 1: If she announced it, do you think that would have
Speaker 1: impacted her?
Speaker 2: It's really interesting because she famously was put on the
Speaker 2: spot on a TV show about before she became having
Speaker 2: a about whether or not she was planning to have kids,
Speaker 2: and she was really furious about the question, and she
Speaker 2: was sort of not furious, but she made a point
Speaker 2: about that question being one that you wouldn't aim at
Speaker 2: a man. And that's the interesting truth is absolutely true,
Speaker 2: is that people don't ask men those questions, but also
Speaker 2: a bit of a willful like it is different because
Speaker 2: the men aren't going to be pregnant.
Speaker 3: I just hope that Barnaby Joyce is finding juggling true
Speaker 3: a young child and a political career. I hope he's
Speaker 3: doing okay and.
Speaker 1: A dog to talk allegedly.
Speaker 3: In a moment the celebrity profile, which we just can't
Speaker 3: agree on. I've got to be honest with you. So
Speaker 3: we have a slack channel at work where we post
Speaker 3: links of things that we might want to talk about
Speaker 3: on the show in and you're always you post some
Speaker 3: really good links in there. But you posted on on
Speaker 3: Monday that I just thought, I'm not going to read that,
Speaker 3: and I moved on with my day.
Speaker 1: I think next time you should literally comment not going
Speaker 1: to read.
Speaker 3: Just the emoji of the cross. It was a profile
Speaker 3: of Brad Pitt in the men's magazine Esquiet. Now, I'm
Speaker 3: sure a lot of listeners now are also thinking the
Speaker 3: exact same thing that I thought, which is, nope, not
Speaker 3: interested in moving on with my life. But then, as usual,
Speaker 3: am You've got your finger on the pulse, because then
Speaker 3: I kept hearing people talking about that profile, and even
Speaker 3: though I'm not at all interested in Brad Pitt and
Speaker 3: I am perhaps even repelled by him. Sorry, Holly, Once
Speaker 3: I read it, I actually couldn't stop thinking about it.
Speaker 3: I joined the crowd of people thinking and talking about
Speaker 3: this profile. It's called a Monday with Brad Pitt. And
Speaker 3: what's interesting about it is that it takes you on
Speaker 3: a bit of a journey, because at first you think
Speaker 3: it's just going to be another puff piece, another step
Speaker 3: in his image rehabilitation tour, because Angie and the kids
Speaker 3: don't talk to him anymore. It begins the sixty two
Speaker 3: year old has lived a singular life. He resides in
Speaker 3: the top one percent of the top one percent of
Speaker 3: all movie stars, not only today but ever, as measured
Speaker 3: by any metric you like, including intrigue. What does he
Speaker 3: have to say about it all? And you just read
Speaker 3: that and you think, I don't care what he has
Speaker 3: to say about it all?
Speaker 1: But you do care.
Speaker 3: I do care. And then you start reading and then
Speaker 3: you realize that this piece is the takedown that we've
Speaker 3: all been waiting for. Well, I think it's the takedown
Speaker 3: of Brad Pitt that we've all been waiting for. Holly
Speaker 3: is sitting here with her head in her hand, shaking
Speaker 3: her head.
Speaker 1: I don't think it is. Oh, what made you think
Speaker 1: it was? So?
Speaker 3: The big Newsworthy thing to come out of it is
Speaker 3: that he says that after seven years of being sober,
Speaker 3: he is now back on the wagon.
Speaker 1: It's not good.
Speaker 3: Which is not good That happened to commincide with a
Speaker 3: rather shocking revelation I think in page six this week
Speaker 3: that at Taylor Swift and Travis Kelsey's wedding he was
Speaker 3: seen drinking. So it does you're true.
Speaker 2: The reason that that is shocking, just for context, is
Speaker 2: that and he will get in a lot of trouble
Speaker 2: for that, I think because I've listened to his interview,
Speaker 2: for example, with Dax Shepherd, where they talk a lot
Speaker 2: about being in AA together. Yep, like he was quite
Speaker 2: seriously sober and identifying that way and part of that community,
Speaker 2: and now he's kind of like, oh, I just drink.
Speaker 2: Sometimes there will be parts of that community who are
Speaker 2: pretty pissed off about that situation.
Speaker 3: Here are some other points that made him, I think,
Speaker 3: look less than flattering. He spent several minutes in the
Speaker 3: profile looking for a pen.
Speaker 1: That part, for me was so sad because I can
Speaker 1: just imagine that because the reason why he was looking
Speaker 1: for a pen was because he wanted to get the
Speaker 1: journalist's email addresses, and then as he's looking for it,
Speaker 1: he's like, oh, I have something else to say, And
Speaker 1: then I can just imagine the journalist going Brad pittneily
Speaker 1: had my other dress. Know he's moved on.
Speaker 2: You were really upset by the vision of him cutting
Speaker 2: up cheese for their cheese.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, He's just so alone and lonely. And
Speaker 1: this is also why I think it didn't really feel
Speaker 1: like a takedown to me, although I am absolutely repulsed
Speaker 1: by him from this piece. I went into reading this
Speaker 1: profile and we're linking in the show notes if you
Speaker 1: want to read it hating Brad Pitt. Like I've just
Speaker 1: always never liked Brad Pitt never never have you seen
Speaker 1: Thomer and Louise? Yeah, But like I watched it when
Speaker 1: I was like twenty.
Speaker 3: Okay, wait is that gold or Yard.
Speaker 1: Ten years ago? I think I was like a bit
Speaker 1: old for it when I watched it for the first
Speaker 1: When I watched it for the first time, like I
Speaker 1: already understood what was going to happen. Everyone knows because
Speaker 1: people talk about telling me all the time. So it
Speaker 1: wasn't actually like spoiler alone. Yeah, I've changed it, Yeah,
Speaker 1: ride or Die. I was like, oh, I know, you know,
Speaker 1: I know what's going to happen. Okay, spoilers, I don't
Speaker 1: want to say it. They die. Okay. Also, you already
Speaker 1: knew what happened to Brad Pitt.
Speaker 2: Ala knew if you watched that movie in situ, as in,
Speaker 2: when it came out, the world all just went who
Speaker 2: is that? Like one big intake breath. And that's not
Speaker 2: the context.
Speaker 1: I learned about him literally from my mum about talking
Speaker 1: about the the Jennifer Aniston thing, and then I was like,
Speaker 1: I love friends, so I love Jennifer Aniston, so I
Speaker 1: hate Brad Pitt. So that's always been my thing. I
Speaker 1: hate Brad Pitt.
Speaker 3: Is this like a bedtime story being told to jen
Speaker 3: It's like gun around. He was a princess of Hollywood
Speaker 3: called Jennifer.
Speaker 1: And everyone hates him. So I went into reading this
Speaker 1: piece hating Brad Pitt, and I came out from reading
Speaker 1: it feeling sorry for Brad Pitt.
Speaker 2: That's the strategy. So this is why this is not
Speaker 2: a takedown. This is the sad Brad strategy.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 2: He's so sad, Holly, Brad Pitt is living as he says.
Speaker 2: The Journal says in the beginning of this the most
Speaker 2: extraordinary life. He is richer than God. His career has
Speaker 2: never been better. He gets to do whatever he wants.
Speaker 2: He's dating a gorgeous young woman. But there is a problem,
Speaker 2: and that is that he's been revealed to be at
Speaker 2: best a bad husband to two of the most famous
Speaker 2: women in the world, at worst an abuser of one
Speaker 2: of those women, and at best a bad father and
Speaker 2: at worst an abusive father. And that none of his
Speaker 2: children talk to him. Now, that's a problem you've got
Speaker 2: to address, right. But there is a massive market out
Speaker 2: there of middle aged, disaffected, middle aged men who are
Speaker 2: mad with their ex wives. Marina Hyde talks about them
Speaker 2: a lot, actually, on the rest of Entertainment. She calls
Speaker 2: them the middle aged men crying in cars on their
Speaker 2: way home from work, and she says that's why Matt
Speaker 2: Damon got cast in the Odyssey, not that he personally
Speaker 2: is one of them, but he speaks to them. There's
Speaker 2: a certain kind of like mainstream middle aged dude who
Speaker 2: speaks to them. Pauline Hanson is talking to them when
Speaker 2: she bangs on about family Court, like there's all.
Speaker 3: Like Kent Thoma and Louise.
Speaker 2: She would have been so bad, But like there's a
Speaker 2: this is a legitimate market you're playing to and painting
Speaker 2: Brad Pitt, as this article does, as a slightly lonely
Speaker 2: that he talks about mental health like he's got a
Speaker 2: problem in that he has to appear vulnerable but still
Speaker 2: keep all his masculinity because that's his appeal, right, So.
Speaker 1: He's like, I'm a little bit sad.
Speaker 2: I did think about some very dark time, went through
Speaker 2: some very dark times because of family issues. Everybody knows
Speaker 2: what he's talking to. Just imagine a woman in his
Speaker 2: position and the journal going over to eat cheese with
Speaker 2: him and being like, none of your six children talk
Speaker 2: to you cool like that, it's not a thing that
Speaker 2: would happen. So I think that portraying him as a
Speaker 2: little bit of a lonely sad like the world's been
Speaker 2: mean to me, dude, is a deliberate play.
Speaker 3: There is form for that for sad Brad because I
Speaker 3: know you remember, Holly, I'll have to explain this thing,
Speaker 3: you am. But in twenty seventeen, Sad Brad made his
Speaker 3: first appearance. This was just after the news had broken
Speaker 3: about he and Angelina splitting up, and he did a
Speaker 3: photo shoot for GQ Style, where he went to various
Speaker 3: American national parks in expensive nitwear, and he looked gaunt
Speaker 3: and kind of upset. And in the article he talked
Speaker 3: about sculpture. One of the quotes that I love from
Speaker 3: this to this day, I'm working with clay plaster, would
Speaker 3: just trying to learn the materials. You know, I surprise myself.
Speaker 3: So he has history of trying to sort of get
Speaker 3: sympathy by looking sad in men's magazines. That is true, Holly,
Speaker 3: But I think we're not buying what he's selling anymore.
Speaker 1: Well we're not, but we're not the audience.
Speaker 3: But I don't know if the journalist is like, I'm
Speaker 3: just going to give you another example. His girlfriend of
Speaker 3: several years that I know that we've talked about before,
Speaker 3: Inez de Ramone, who is thirty three. She gets mentioned
Speaker 3: precisely once in this whole article, and it's inner parenthetical
Speaker 3: about how she is good at packing luggage.
Speaker 1: Maybe she's really good at it.
Speaker 2: But again, David, it wouldn't be good for Brad's image
Speaker 2: to be like, I'm deliri happy with this gorgeous young woman.
Speaker 1: He wants.
Speaker 2: He wants to play that down like it's the whole
Speaker 2: thing is like that. He's kind of playing to my
Speaker 2: ex wife. He can't say it out loud, but he's like,
Speaker 2: I am a victim here. She's been bad mouthing me
Speaker 2: to the kids. I'm now disconnected from my family, Like
Speaker 2: he kind of he can't say that, but he kind
Speaker 2: of nods to it.
Speaker 1: I think it's part of a play. I do the
Speaker 1: whole thing to me. I was just like from the
Speaker 1: cutting the cheese by himself a secuitary board and then
Speaker 1: bringing out a bowl of grapes that he had only
Speaker 1: just washed and was like plucking them.
Speaker 3: What about the Pits line?
Speaker 1: The pits line where the journalist was like, oh, I'm
Speaker 1: getting the royal treatment, and Brad was like, just another
Speaker 1: day at the pits.
Speaker 2: It's just you.
Speaker 1: In the pits, am, You're the tiebreaker here, outfits so
Speaker 1: bad and the journalist thinks it's cool.
Speaker 3: I'm sorry, So you think the journalist thinks this is
Speaker 3: all because my argument is that as a society we
Speaker 3: can now see through sad.
Speaker 1: Brad like, that's my argument. I don't think we can
Speaker 1: see through it. I think I just felt really sad
Speaker 1: for him, and I felt like he got that journalist
Speaker 1: to fall in love with him, and the whole thing
Speaker 1: read as like he's so sad we should feel so
Speaker 1: for him. Look at him in this big, beautiful mansion.
Speaker 1: The only thing on his mind is what he's going
Speaker 1: to order before he goes to bed.
Speaker 3: Like the end of the story is like he asks, Brad,
Speaker 3: you know top one percent of one percent of movies
Speaker 3: stars ever, So what are you up to tonight? And
Speaker 3: Brad says, think I might order some food, but I don't.
Speaker 3: But that's what.
Speaker 1: And he just had like the World Cup playing in
Speaker 1: the background, and he's like, look at that guy's fake acting.
Speaker 1: That's why I can't watch porn.
Speaker 2: That was acting so bad that it was a great line.
Speaker 2: That's why I can't watch porn because I don't like
Speaker 2: bad acting. Again, he's like, play with masculinity. I love football,
Speaker 2: I don't like porn. I'm a little bit sad.
Speaker 1: But don't get me wrong. I like cheese.
Speaker 3: I drink that, I eat cheese.
Speaker 1: Yeah exactly.
Speaker 2: We're all just playing and we're all just extras in
Speaker 2: Brad Pitt's world at this point.
Speaker 1: After the break, another fucking woman, If you have a
Speaker 1: baby and you also want to go to an Olivia
Speaker 1: Dean concert. I want to go to an OLIVI I
Speaker 1: have some news for you. Your baby better have a job.
Speaker 1: Bethany Williams bought a ticket to an Olivia Dean concert
Speaker 1: and here in Sydney. Here in Sydney, and at the
Speaker 1: time she was pregnant with her son. When the concert
Speaker 1: rolled around, she had then given birth to said son.
Speaker 1: It hasn't rolled around yet. It's coming up.
Speaker 3: Oh it hasn't.
Speaker 2: No, No, it's I can still get tickets. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 2: just release some. It's in like I want to say,
Speaker 2: it's in October November. Okay, I have to put that
Speaker 2: on mind to do. But yeah, she's going.
Speaker 1: Okay, she's going. She's going. But she's organized. So she's organized, right,
Speaker 1: So you should have taken the second for logistical reasons.
Speaker 1: She emailed the venue and told them that she'll have
Speaker 1: a baby with her and she wanted to know if
Speaker 1: the prayer and nappy bag will make it through security. Okay.
Speaker 1: The Venus response, thank you for your inquiry. For the
Speaker 1: Olivia Dean event, all patrons must hold a valid ticket
Speaker 1: for entry, regardless of age. William's right, I hadn't even
Speaker 1: thought to ask if my baby would be allowed in
Speaker 1: because well, he's a baby. He'll be less than five
Speaker 1: months old on the day of the concert. Our tickets
Speaker 1: are seated, and he'll be strapped to my body the
Speaker 1: whole time because he can't sit because he's a baby.
Speaker 1: Do we think this baby should be paying for his
Speaker 1: own way into Olivia Dean's concert.
Speaker 3: I think if you can't sit, you probably don't need
Speaker 3: to buy a ticket. How about that.
Speaker 2: I think that a ticket is for a seat. Baby
Speaker 2: doesn't need a seat, so you know, I don't think
Speaker 2: the baby should have to pay. But I read the
Speaker 2: comments section.
Speaker 1: Can I ask the question that I feel like I'll
Speaker 1: get in trouble?
Speaker 2: Yeh, yeah, no do Why would you bring a baby
Speaker 2: to a concert? So that's what the comment section said, right.
Speaker 2: This is interesting because I think, you know, the writer
Speaker 2: of this piece was making one point, which is like,
Speaker 2: this is ridiculous to charge my baby to get into
Speaker 2: a concert, and the comment section was just all like,
Speaker 2: why are you taking her baby to a cart?
Speaker 3: And look her answer she preempts this in the article.
Speaker 3: This is what her answer is, which is that she's
Speaker 3: breastfeeding and she lives on the Central Coast and so
Speaker 3: to come down to the concert and then back again.
Speaker 3: It's going to be a seven and a half hour odyssey,
Speaker 3: so to speak, and so she can't stay away from
Speaker 3: the baby for that long. But then your follow up
Speaker 3: is probably like does she need to go to the
Speaker 3: Olivia Dean concert? And you know, I think it's a
Speaker 3: fair question.
Speaker 2: I think she definitely needs to go to the Olivia
Speaker 2: Dean concert. Like when is the Olivia Dean concert coming
Speaker 2: around again? When is Olivia having this moment? When does
Speaker 2: she have the energy to come to Australia. She's very
Speaker 2: famous now.
Speaker 1: I guess I just feel again.
Speaker 3: You know, as someone who did breastfeed. So I'm not
Speaker 3: hating on breastfeeding, of course I'm not. But it's a
Speaker 3: tricky time. It's hard to go to the shops when
Speaker 3: you're breastfeeding. It's making life difficult. I'm just gonna say,
Speaker 3: her call. It is her call.
Speaker 1: And like lots of people are saying, what about the
Speaker 1: baby's ears?
Speaker 2: And she can get those headphones. We've all seen famous
Speaker 2: people's babies next to the text to the stage at
Speaker 2: concerts with headphones. This is just people being like, you're
Speaker 2: a mum now, And a lot of the comments actually
Speaker 2: say this, Your pleasure is not important, and I'm like,
Speaker 2: but who.
Speaker 1: Doesn't want to see man?
Speaker 2: I need?
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's life.
Speaker 3: I guess what I was sort of saying is I'm
Speaker 3: not sure I would want to go to the concert
Speaker 3: while breastfeeding. But you're right, that's that's her prerogative to go.
Speaker 1: But I think that the charging for a ticket is bullshit.
Speaker 1: You're just gonna SAT's fair. I just don't think the
Speaker 1: baby would really appreciate Olivia Dean.
Speaker 3: She's got a great pace.
Speaker 1: Will he know all the lyrics?
Speaker 2: I'm not sure, But imagine when he's older and she's like,
Speaker 2: your first concert was Olivia Dean. When you're pretty five
Speaker 2: months old, that is pretty cool. And Olivia Dean by
Speaker 2: then I'll be doing the Bond theme song. In fact,
Speaker 2: she probably already is.
Speaker 3: And he'll be like, I've seen her and after a
Speaker 3: lot of people wearing nappies at concerts these days, anyway,
Speaker 3: So we're good.
Speaker 2: Really, you've nailed it. All the people in the front
Speaker 2: row wearing nappies. If they're allowed to earn nappies, baby's
Speaker 2: allowed to wear nappies.
Speaker 3: It's fine, you know. The big message from this is
Speaker 3: ask forgiveness, not seek for mission. Yes, just show up.
Speaker 1: Imagine if they're there and they're just like, sorry, baby,
Speaker 1: she has to stay out here.
Speaker 2: I want to test an idea that I read in
Speaker 2: a substack that I subscribe to, and I find it
Speaker 2: simultaneously awful and also fundamentally true. So I need to
Speaker 2: run it past you my moral compasses, right. Polly Vernon
Speaker 2: is a British writer. She's a journo. She's got loads
Speaker 2: of experience. She's very funny, very smart. She is a columnist.
Speaker 2: She's been a columnist for years, but now these days
Speaker 2: she's a substacker.
Speaker 1: Of course she is.
Speaker 2: And she writes a lot about femininity, body image, beauty stuff.
Speaker 1: She loves to poke the bear. She writes a lot
Speaker 1: of comments.
Speaker 2: She writes a lot of stories about you know, cosmetic
Speaker 2: procedures and diet and things that she doesn't shy away from.
Speaker 2: An unpopular opinion. She loves an unpopular opinion. And this
Speaker 2: one is very interesting. I think this newsletter was called
Speaker 2: are you a victim of the fourth Prettiest Girl in
Speaker 2: the Playground syndrome? I know you're already a bit irritated
Speaker 2: by that title. Nd yeah, everybody is bear with me.
Speaker 2: She writes about how often it's women rounding on, like
Speaker 2: a new woman who enters any arena. Now, obstensibly here
Speaker 2: she's writing about the public arena, so like a new
Speaker 2: woman who comes into the public consciousness. But also think
Speaker 2: about this in terms of your workplace, your friend group,
Speaker 2: your gym, the school yard.
Speaker 1: Your favorite podcast, your favorite podcast.
Speaker 2: The example she was using specifically, I'm not going to
Speaker 2: go too far into because it's weedy, but it was
Speaker 2: about the reaction to the British Prime Minister, the new
Speaker 2: British Prime Minister, Andy Burnham. His wife has always been
Speaker 2: like in the background, no one really knew much about it.
Speaker 2: But obviously now he's Prime Minister, she's sort of stepped
Speaker 2: into the spotlight a bit. She's called Mary France heel.
Speaker 2: No one had really seen her, but suddenly everyone had
Speaker 2: an opinion about her first appearance, about her dress.
Speaker 3: It wasn't it like a lovely Victoria Beckham.
Speaker 2: She wore a lilac Victoria Beckham dress. But plenty of
Speaker 2: annoying people were like, oh, it.
Speaker 1: Doesn't know favors. Oh she's got a stump, like all
Speaker 1: that kind of nonsense.
Speaker 2: Right, suddenly it's lots of thoughts about her body, her face,
Speaker 2: her expression, etc. Vernon writes, I believe this is It's
Speaker 2: the thing that happens every time a brand new woman
Speaker 2: is suddenly dramatically introduced to proceedings of whom we haven't
Speaker 2: previously been aware, When they just kind of land on us,
Speaker 2: as if from out of space.
Speaker 1: It's as if we all go.
Speaker 2: Fucking great, just what we need, another fucking woman, As
Speaker 2: if we haven't got enough on.
Speaker 1: Our plates already trying to feel okay about all the
Speaker 1: ones we already knew about.
Speaker 2: I think of it, Polly writes, as but I'm the
Speaker 2: fourth prettiest girl in the playground syndrome. Sudden consciousness to
Speaker 2: another fucking woman necessitates a shake up in the existing
Speaker 2: great hierarchy of women, the one that obviously doesn't really
Speaker 2: exist anywhere but in the darkest, least admirable, least feminist
Speaker 2: reaches of our collective imaginations, but which is all the same,
Speaker 2: unfortunately undeniably definitely there another fucking woman. As she calls it,
Speaker 2: can be terribly confronting, can't she She can send us
Speaker 2: into a frantic questioning of our own really shakable sense
Speaker 2: of status aka our prettiness in the playground rating, Because
Speaker 2: has she, by dint of just you know, arriving, displaced us.
Speaker 2: Has she knocked us down to the fifth prettiest woman
Speaker 2: in the playground? She says, we go straight into attack mode,
Speaker 2: attempt to dismantle the threat she poses to our deepest
Speaker 2: sense of ourselves. Oh my god, she's sow this. She's
Speaker 2: so that she really fancies herself even though she definitely shouldn't.
Speaker 2: What's she wearing? Why does she laugh like that? A
Speaker 2: bit of botox wouldn't go a mislove? Oh my god,
Speaker 2: have you seen how much work she's got done? Now
Speaker 2: we could all agree that this is ugly, ugly sentiment,
Speaker 2: the absolute opposite of the women supporting women trope. It's
Speaker 2: the scarcity mindset. There's not enough cake matt to go
Speaker 2: around and all that. But also it's true if you
Speaker 2: look in the comments section of our friend, we are
Speaker 2: just talking about who wants to take a baby to
Speaker 2: a concert? Or let's say Anne Hathaway this week is
Speaker 2: a good example. Steps she's not new, but her body
Speaker 2: is new in this context, steps out with her baby bump, flaunted.
Speaker 3: Flaunty step out and flaunt, stepping out where are her
Speaker 3: pins in all this?
Speaker 1: Exactly?
Speaker 2: The comments roundly critical comments are overwhelmingly from women.
Speaker 1: This is the truth.
Speaker 2: We don't or from Russian bots that have pretending to
Speaker 2: be women. That's that's a fair point, Amelia, that's a
Speaker 2: fair point. So does this theory, the fourth prettiest girl
Speaker 2: in the playground theory explain why that?
Speaker 1: Vitriol? Emily Vernon. When I read this story, I got
Speaker 1: this distinct men, Mari immediately from a time that I've
Speaker 1: like completely forgot about. I didn't know I had this
Speaker 1: memory inside me. And it was year eight. My year
Speaker 1: eight cohort was broken up into different classes and we
Speaker 1: all did like the same glasses together in this like
Speaker 1: smaller group. And in my group it was like majority boys,
Speaker 1: and I think there was only five of us who
Speaker 1: were girls. So we did the whole of year seven
Speaker 1: like that, the half of year eight like that. And
Speaker 1: then we got a new student and it was a girl,
Speaker 1: and I immediately hated her. And I don't know why
Speaker 1: I hated her.
Speaker 2: I just hated her.
Speaker 1: Throughout all of high school. And another fucking woman, another
Speaker 1: fucking woman, and I wish I could say. And then
Speaker 1: I grew up and was like, actually, she's a really
Speaker 1: nice person, but I still hate her. And I don't
Speaker 1: know why. I don't know why. I don't know who
Speaker 1: she is. I can't even remember her name. I just
Speaker 1: know I have this distace for her and coming into
Speaker 1: my classroom.
Speaker 3: There's a great Australian classic children's book about precisely this phenomenon,
Speaker 3: called Hating Alison Alshell. Yes, my God, Delta, goodroom. Yes,
Speaker 3: the movie is Delta. The book is written by Robin Klein,
Speaker 3: and it just so perfectly encapsulates that hierarchy that Pollie
Speaker 3: is talking about that only seems to exist in the
Speaker 3: heads of girls and women. Why is that, holly.
Speaker 2: Well, the generous read is, it's scarcity mindset.
Speaker 1: It's the patriarchy.
Speaker 2: You know, who are kind of going, well, we will
Speaker 2: let some of the women have some of the things,
Speaker 2: but only the prettiest, smartest, most pleasing, loveliest, nicest of
Speaker 2: you this very small pool. We demand a certain amount
Speaker 2: of behave a certain kind of behavior from you. We
Speaker 2: want you to look a certain way, behave a certain way.
Speaker 1: So there's the.
Speaker 2: Doors are closed and open just a crack, and some
Speaker 2: of us might squeeze through it. Right, That is one explanation,
Speaker 2: so that women are always feeling in a constant state
Speaker 2: of competition with each other for to be able to
Speaker 2: get through that crack in the door. And that might
Speaker 2: be professional, but it also might be romantic. It might
Speaker 2: be all kinds of different, you know, different things. So
Speaker 2: that's a generous read. I also think that because one
Speaker 2: of the things that I often think about this is
Speaker 2: why is this apparently seemed to be getting worse rather
Speaker 2: than better in terms of the public discourse we have
Speaker 2: around women, because I would love we know that women
Speaker 2: in the public eye get an enormous amount of toxic
Speaker 2: trolling from men. We know that's true, and it's often
Speaker 2: violent and very disturbing, but it is undeniably true that
Speaker 2: women are incredibly harsh on each other in comments section.
Speaker 3: And you think that's getting worse.
Speaker 2: I think it's getting worse because I think that social
Speaker 2: media and even when I say that, I want to
Speaker 2: kind of hit myself in the face, because saying social
Speaker 2: media now is like saying phones or whatever. It's just
Speaker 2: the culture that we live in is more hyper vigilant.
Speaker 2: We have more constant comparison. I saw a TikTok this
Speaker 2: week from an Australian trad wife who I follow because
Speaker 2: you know, I love my trad wife, and she was
Speaker 2: saying that she.
Speaker 3: Envies her wouldn't have been any sense as conflict in
Speaker 3: a child wife house.
Speaker 2: I just realized that they would have been able to
Speaker 2: go non one hundred percent. She was saying that she
Speaker 2: envied her mother's generation of parents because they had no
Speaker 2: visibility on what everybody else was doing, so you didn't
Speaker 2: feel so shitty about what you were doing.
Speaker 1: All the time.
Speaker 2: And that's true and undeniable. And we're talking about this
Speaker 2: in terms of mental healthy young girls and all these
Speaker 2: things that the constant comparison and windows into everyone else's
Speaker 2: world is actually making us more anxious and competitive than not.
Speaker 2: So I do believe this is one of those areas
Speaker 2: that it's getting worse, not better, And the problem is
Speaker 2: is the pushback to it. And I genuinely try and
Speaker 2: practice this is to switch your that programming, like when
Speaker 2: you do see another fucking woman, when you see Mary
Speaker 2: Franz stepping out, is to not be like Tommy in
Speaker 2: that dress or like you know, any woman on the
Speaker 2: TV will tell you that all the feedback she gets
Speaker 2: ninety five percent the feedback she'll get will be about
Speaker 2: her appearance, and a lot of that is from other
Speaker 2: women too, but it's all about do are you good enough?
Speaker 1: Are you better than me? I think it's getting worse,
Speaker 1: not better.
Speaker 3: I think that's such an interesting observation, that it's getting worse,
Speaker 3: and it makes me wonder if it's also tied to
Speaker 3: how we feel a sense of economic precarity in this moment.
Speaker 3: I've been thinking a lot lately about how we know
Speaker 3: that when times get tough economically, women's bodies in the
Speaker 3: public eye shrink, and we don't know why that is.
Speaker 3: And it's not that individual women look at the stock
Speaker 3: market and decide that they're going to get smaller, but
Speaker 3: it's just a phenomenon that when times are tough economically,
Speaker 3: women in the public eye are smaller. And I wonder
Speaker 3: if there's also a sense that the competition between women
Speaker 3: gets amped up when we're worried about getting our slice
Speaker 3: of the pie and when we're worried about making sure
Speaker 3: that we can set up our retirements and that we
Speaker 3: have enough money in the bank, and we're feeling that
Speaker 3: sense of anxiety economically, and now.
Speaker 1: The really pretty perfect AI robot women are coming.
Speaker 2: For our slices of the pie too, So you're right,
Speaker 2: is it feels like a ramping up of competition at
Speaker 2: all times? How do we fix fourth prettiest girl in
Speaker 2: the playground syndrome? Because I think that the reason that
Speaker 2: this idea rankles is because it's awful.
Speaker 1: I don't want to admit it.
Speaker 2: I hate the tropes that women are all competitive, that
Speaker 2: they can't work together, and lots of experiences in my life,
Speaker 2: certainly my professional life, prove that not to be true
Speaker 2: all the time. But the reason it's an interesting syndrome
Speaker 2: is because it does have a kernel of truth in it.
Speaker 1: How do we undo it? How do you unpick that attitude?
Speaker 1: I think first we all agree we hate Brad Pitt,
Speaker 1: and then I like to be a bit more optimistic.
Speaker 1: I don't necessarily think it is getting worse. I don't
Speaker 1: know if it's getting better, but I think we always
Speaker 1: roll our eyes at our eyes at the girl Boss
Speaker 1: and the women supporting women. But I think we have
Speaker 1: those things because inherently we have to be very overt
Speaker 1: in telling ourselves. I'm a woman, I know how hard
Speaker 1: it was for me to get here. I need to
Speaker 1: do this for other women because we don't subconsciously do it.
Speaker 1: And I think back to your discussion with just into
Speaker 1: our Durnhole, especially about the workplace, and we say, if
Speaker 1: there's like a male dominated space, a woman can come
Speaker 1: in and elbow her way in and get in. But
Speaker 1: if it's a male dominated space with another woman and
Speaker 1: that woman has closed the door behind her and is
Speaker 1: not letting other women in, then you're just not getting in.
Speaker 1: That makes it very very hard. So I think actually
Speaker 1: having these overused generic terms of support other women smash
Speaker 1: the glass ceiling, like be that person for other women
Speaker 1: to look up to, be a role model, be a
Speaker 1: girl boss. I think it actually makes us believe that
Speaker 1: we are what we say, and it actually puts that
Speaker 1: in front of our mind instead of a subconscious churning
Speaker 1: of it.
Speaker 2: Do you think we also have to And this is
Speaker 2: very basic therapy speak, but it's like, you've got to
Speaker 2: recognize your problem before you can fix your problem. Right,
Speaker 2: So when you do, when another fucking woman does enter
Speaker 2: your world in whatever world that is the gym, the workplace,
Speaker 2: your phone, like talking yourself out of that, you know
Speaker 2: what I mean, like literally talking You're questioning why your
Speaker 2: first reaction is hackles up backplazed, like making being that change.
Speaker 3: When your partner's friend introduces his new girlfriend. Yes, I
Speaker 3: approach it with an open mind and curiosity.
Speaker 1: Is that possible?
Speaker 3: I think it's hard, but I think that naming it
Speaker 3: does help. I was just thinking that. In another workplace
Speaker 3: in which I've worked, I heard some young, younger women
Speaker 3: in the office talking about whether they thought Italy's prime
Speaker 3: minister was attractive. She's a woman's she's the first woman
Speaker 3: prime minister visually, and I did have to say to them,
Speaker 3: I don't think that you should say that at work.
Speaker 3: I deally never, but please don't say it at work
Speaker 3: in front of the men. They might get the wrong idea.
Speaker 3: So I think it's all the more important that we
Speaker 3: police ourselves in mixed environments too, because we've got to
Speaker 3: be the change we want. We want men to see too.
Speaker 2: Another no whatever, says another fucking man, and let's face it,
Speaker 2: there are lots of them.
Speaker 1: Except there was a lot of opinions on Obama's tan suit.
Speaker 1: We do remember that. Note.
Speaker 3: Well, it wasn't his season, it wasn't easy to get
Speaker 3: his colors done.
Speaker 1: Okay, this has been fun. I'm tired.
Speaker 3: Holy that was cathartic. It was kind of fucking woman
Speaker 3: is a real It's a real wake up call.
Speaker 1: I think so. I think it's like I'm going to
Speaker 1: test myself on that. I just know that because now
Speaker 1: we sit next to each other at the death every
Speaker 1: time I'm talking about a woman, You're going to.
Speaker 2: Be like, let's unpack that will And I'll also be like,
Speaker 2: is that just another fucking woman?
Speaker 1: Then I think we should just going to be the
Speaker 1: rest of my life.
Speaker 3: Don't cross the room.
Speaker 1: What did you say?
Speaker 3: Some law.
Speaker 1: Love you out louders.
Speaker 2: We will be back in your ears tomorrow. Until then,
Speaker 2: thanks to our amazing teams. Thank you to you two.
Speaker 1: Oh goodbye, Oh someone just to buy picture a little screenshot.
Speaker 2: Bye bye.
Speaker 1: Mamma.
Speaker 2: Maya acknowledges the traditional owners of the land on which
Speaker 2: we've recorded this podcast.