1 00:00:11,280 --> 00:00:14,040 Speaker 1: You're listening to a Muma mea podcast. 2 00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:17,720 Speaker 2: Mamma May, I acknowledges the traditional owners of the land 3 00:00:17,800 --> 00:00:20,280 Speaker 2: and waters that this podcast is recorded on. 4 00:00:20,480 --> 00:00:22,479 Speaker 3: Feeling a little bit toxic today, So I'm going to 5 00:00:22,560 --> 00:00:24,880 Speaker 3: ask my husband some questions to see if we're going 6 00:00:24,920 --> 00:00:25,440 Speaker 3: to start a fight. 7 00:00:26,160 --> 00:00:30,319 Speaker 1: If I died, would you remarry? 8 00:00:31,240 --> 00:00:31,440 Speaker 4: Is it? 9 00:00:31,560 --> 00:00:33,760 Speaker 1: Why are you thinking that long? If I died, would 10 00:00:33,800 --> 00:00:34,320 Speaker 1: you remarried? 11 00:00:34,320 --> 00:00:36,040 Speaker 5: There should be what rapid fire? 12 00:00:36,479 --> 00:00:39,080 Speaker 4: Uh no? Not no? 13 00:00:40,280 --> 00:00:41,240 Speaker 5: You wouldn't die with me? 14 00:00:41,880 --> 00:00:42,159 Speaker 3: Oh it? 15 00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:45,120 Speaker 5: Thought of me dying? Wouldn't just kill your off? You 16 00:00:45,160 --> 00:00:46,159 Speaker 5: could live without me. 17 00:00:49,040 --> 00:00:49,800 Speaker 1: For Mamma Mia. 18 00:00:50,040 --> 00:00:53,640 Speaker 3: I'm your host, Ashani Dante. Welcome to But Are You Happy? 19 00:00:54,120 --> 00:00:57,280 Speaker 3: The podcast that's like your brutally honest friend who doesn't 20 00:00:57,320 --> 00:00:59,440 Speaker 3: sugarcoat anything but still loves you. 21 00:00:59,760 --> 00:01:04,039 Speaker 2: And I'm Doctor Anastasia Hernis, a clinical psychologist passionate about 22 00:01:04,039 --> 00:01:06,839 Speaker 2: happiness and mental health. Have you ever had a fight 23 00:01:06,920 --> 00:01:10,160 Speaker 2: with someone that starts off small but then suddenly turn 24 00:01:10,440 --> 00:01:14,880 Speaker 2: super personal like you're back in primary school, trading playground insults? 25 00:01:15,160 --> 00:01:16,520 Speaker 1: Oh? Absolutely so? 26 00:01:16,640 --> 00:01:18,880 Speaker 3: How do you even come back from that, especially when 27 00:01:18,880 --> 00:01:20,919 Speaker 3: you're right in the middle of it? How do you 28 00:01:20,959 --> 00:01:24,120 Speaker 3: stop things from getting too heated and too personal. 29 00:01:24,520 --> 00:01:27,160 Speaker 2: That's exactly what we're unpacking today. I'm going to share 30 00:01:27,360 --> 00:01:31,360 Speaker 2: how to have what I call a good fight, one 31 00:01:31,399 --> 00:01:35,160 Speaker 2: that's free from criticism, defensiveness, and all those traps we 32 00:01:35,240 --> 00:01:37,280 Speaker 2: fall into when emotions run high. 33 00:01:37,520 --> 00:01:39,800 Speaker 3: I already know I'm going to get so much from 34 00:01:39,839 --> 00:01:46,600 Speaker 3: this episode. Let's dive in, Okay, Anathasia. I feel like 35 00:01:46,839 --> 00:01:49,680 Speaker 3: no one teaches us how to have a healthy fight. 36 00:01:49,840 --> 00:01:53,200 Speaker 3: We either avoid conflict or we blow up, or it's 37 00:01:53,240 --> 00:01:56,040 Speaker 3: a combination of both. But you know, the reality is 38 00:01:56,080 --> 00:02:00,320 Speaker 3: conflict is inevitable, especially in the close relationships we have. 39 00:02:01,160 --> 00:02:02,840 Speaker 3: I guess the question I would love to start off 40 00:02:02,840 --> 00:02:05,360 Speaker 3: with is is fighting all that bad? 41 00:02:05,760 --> 00:02:08,079 Speaker 2: Before I jump into answering that, I want to say 42 00:02:08,120 --> 00:02:09,359 Speaker 2: that there are absolutely some. 43 00:02:09,520 --> 00:02:11,520 Speaker 5: Non negotiable when it comes to fighting. 44 00:02:11,600 --> 00:02:17,400 Speaker 2: Right, So, when it comes to violence, abuse, coercive control, 45 00:02:17,800 --> 00:02:21,720 Speaker 2: psychological abuse, emotional abuse, physical violence, all of those, they're 46 00:02:21,760 --> 00:02:23,840 Speaker 2: never okay when it comes to fighting or when it 47 00:02:23,840 --> 00:02:28,000 Speaker 2: comes to relationships. But there are some unhealthy patterns that 48 00:02:28,040 --> 00:02:32,000 Speaker 2: we can identify and work on. We have this idea 49 00:02:32,080 --> 00:02:35,360 Speaker 2: that if you have arguments and disagreements in a relationship, 50 00:02:35,440 --> 00:02:38,040 Speaker 2: that it's doomed or that there's something bad about it. 51 00:02:38,080 --> 00:02:40,320 Speaker 2: And we hear about the couples who never fight you 52 00:02:41,040 --> 00:02:43,560 Speaker 2: and as if they're to be idealized in some way, 53 00:02:43,600 --> 00:02:45,160 Speaker 2: and I think it's just not reality. 54 00:02:45,280 --> 00:02:45,440 Speaker 1: Right. 55 00:02:45,520 --> 00:02:50,480 Speaker 2: Conflict is inevitable where in relationships with people who are 56 00:02:50,480 --> 00:02:55,040 Speaker 2: fundamentally different to us, they have different views and beliefs 57 00:02:55,040 --> 00:02:57,880 Speaker 2: and values in the world, and that's okay, but it 58 00:02:57,920 --> 00:03:00,560 Speaker 2: does mean that we're going to come across points of 59 00:03:00,680 --> 00:03:02,880 Speaker 2: tension and conflict throughout our relationships. 60 00:03:03,480 --> 00:03:06,000 Speaker 3: And it's true because I think about, you know, not 61 00:03:06,040 --> 00:03:08,400 Speaker 3: that I'm going to blame Disney for this, but you know, 62 00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:11,960 Speaker 3: there's that happy ever after, and I know for me personally, 63 00:03:12,120 --> 00:03:14,840 Speaker 3: I've definitely been sold that narrative growing up, you know, 64 00:03:15,040 --> 00:03:17,600 Speaker 3: being like, oh, I shouldn't there shouldn't be any tension 65 00:03:17,680 --> 00:03:20,560 Speaker 3: because that means we shouldn't be together. Like my brain 66 00:03:20,640 --> 00:03:22,800 Speaker 3: used to go straight into the worst case scenario. 67 00:03:23,320 --> 00:03:24,000 Speaker 5: Absolutely. 68 00:03:24,120 --> 00:03:27,000 Speaker 2: And it's funny you bring up Disney and TV and things, 69 00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:31,240 Speaker 2: because when we are shown fights on TV or in movies, 70 00:03:31,520 --> 00:03:33,560 Speaker 2: we're often not shown resolution. 71 00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:36,080 Speaker 5: And that's a really important part. 72 00:03:36,200 --> 00:03:38,560 Speaker 2: It's everyone's going to fight at certain points in time, 73 00:03:38,600 --> 00:03:40,600 Speaker 2: but how do we get through that and resolve it. 74 00:03:40,640 --> 00:03:42,920 Speaker 5: That's what we need to be able to do effectively. 75 00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:44,080 Speaker 1: That's so true. 76 00:03:44,280 --> 00:03:47,280 Speaker 3: So what are some of the common destructive things that 77 00:03:47,320 --> 00:03:48,720 Speaker 3: you observe when people fight? 78 00:03:49,080 --> 00:03:51,640 Speaker 2: So I'm going to tell you about the four horsemen 79 00:03:51,760 --> 00:03:55,880 Speaker 2: as a bit of a framework for unhealthy patterns that 80 00:03:56,080 --> 00:03:58,800 Speaker 2: can occur when people fight. And I'm going to refer 81 00:03:58,800 --> 00:04:01,560 Speaker 2: to couples because this comes from Gotman's therapy. 82 00:04:01,720 --> 00:04:03,000 Speaker 5: John and Julie Gotman. 83 00:04:02,760 --> 00:04:06,160 Speaker 2: Developed this type of therapy, which is a couple's therapy approach. 84 00:04:06,360 --> 00:04:08,320 Speaker 2: So I'm going to be referring mostly to couples, but 85 00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:10,600 Speaker 2: I do want to say that this applies to any 86 00:04:10,720 --> 00:04:13,840 Speaker 2: kind of fights with all sorts of you know, relationships, 87 00:04:13,880 --> 00:04:16,200 Speaker 2: whether that be in a romantic couple, whether it be 88 00:04:16,360 --> 00:04:19,200 Speaker 2: with a family member, or whether it be with a friend. 89 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:23,320 Speaker 2: So we've got the four horsemen, so four different types 90 00:04:23,360 --> 00:04:27,520 Speaker 2: of unhealthy destructive patterns. So the first one we'll talk 91 00:04:27,520 --> 00:04:32,520 Speaker 2: about is criticism. Okay, So this is when someone argues 92 00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:37,080 Speaker 2: in a way that is highly critical of the other person, 93 00:04:37,320 --> 00:04:41,000 Speaker 2: so they are attacking their character. So it's not just 94 00:04:41,080 --> 00:04:43,200 Speaker 2: bringing up a complaint and saying, hey, look I'm not 95 00:04:43,240 --> 00:04:45,200 Speaker 2: happy about this thing that happened or I'm not happy 96 00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:48,400 Speaker 2: about this thing that you said. It's actually attacking and 97 00:04:48,440 --> 00:04:51,640 Speaker 2: criticizing that person's character. So it might be referring to 98 00:04:51,680 --> 00:04:54,720 Speaker 2: them in ways where you're saying you are so selfish 99 00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:57,120 Speaker 2: how you didn't offer to pick me up from work 100 00:04:57,160 --> 00:04:59,400 Speaker 2: the other day, or you're so lazy because you just 101 00:04:59,440 --> 00:05:01,600 Speaker 2: left your dishes on the sink and you didn't, you know, 102 00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:04,480 Speaker 2: put them in the dishwasher. So it's actually attacking that 103 00:05:04,520 --> 00:05:08,159 Speaker 2: person's character in quite negative and mean ways. 104 00:05:08,520 --> 00:05:11,280 Speaker 3: Okay, so that's the first negative cammunication behavior. 105 00:05:11,520 --> 00:05:16,440 Speaker 2: What's the next one? Okay, next one is defensiveness. Now 106 00:05:16,600 --> 00:05:18,760 Speaker 2: this is probably a relatable one. We've either been there 107 00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:22,080 Speaker 2: ourselves or we know people who fall into this style 108 00:05:22,240 --> 00:05:24,640 Speaker 2: when they argue when they come up against conflict. So 109 00:05:24,720 --> 00:05:28,280 Speaker 2: this really is that sense of not wanting to take responsibility. 110 00:05:28,680 --> 00:05:31,200 Speaker 2: So it's when we come up with excuses for our 111 00:05:31,240 --> 00:05:34,800 Speaker 2: behavior or we deflect or we go, yeah, well I 112 00:05:34,880 --> 00:05:37,320 Speaker 2: didn't put the dishwashers in the dishwasher last night, but 113 00:05:37,360 --> 00:05:39,040 Speaker 2: you didn't do it last week, and we sort of 114 00:05:39,040 --> 00:05:41,000 Speaker 2: throw it back to the other person. And what we 115 00:05:41,120 --> 00:05:44,040 Speaker 2: find is that when we're met with defensiveness, this is 116 00:05:44,200 --> 00:05:48,320 Speaker 2: really where an argument can very quickly escalate, right, because 117 00:05:48,360 --> 00:05:53,159 Speaker 2: the person who's raising their complaint feels unheard and the 118 00:05:53,200 --> 00:05:55,719 Speaker 2: person who's being defensive kind of throws more fuel on 119 00:05:55,720 --> 00:05:58,040 Speaker 2: the fire, and things can really escalate quite quickly. 120 00:05:58,840 --> 00:06:01,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, when you're talking about defensiveness, I'm like, I don't 121 00:06:01,160 --> 00:06:03,080 Speaker 3: know what you're talking about. I've never been defensive, if 122 00:06:03,120 --> 00:06:06,440 Speaker 3: I'm sure you can attest to that, right, Yeah, And 123 00:06:06,520 --> 00:06:08,640 Speaker 3: it's true, And it's really hard because what I'm hearing 124 00:06:08,680 --> 00:06:12,520 Speaker 3: as well, there's even we're criticism and defensiveness, there's an 125 00:06:12,640 --> 00:06:17,320 Speaker 3: undertone of resentment that's piling up underneath as well. 126 00:06:17,520 --> 00:06:19,400 Speaker 1: So it can be really hard. 127 00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:22,159 Speaker 3: And it's interesting when you're talking about the examples of 128 00:06:22,200 --> 00:06:26,640 Speaker 3: criticism and defensiveness, you keep referencing you did this, you 129 00:06:26,720 --> 00:06:29,719 Speaker 3: did that, And I find and if anyone's tuned into 130 00:06:29,800 --> 00:06:33,840 Speaker 3: our previous episodes, I like the difference between you versus 131 00:06:33,880 --> 00:06:36,960 Speaker 3: I statement. You know, there's such a powerful difference in that. 132 00:06:37,160 --> 00:06:40,839 Speaker 3: So going from attacking energy to more of oh okay, 133 00:06:40,960 --> 00:06:42,200 Speaker 3: what's my experience? 134 00:06:42,280 --> 00:06:44,080 Speaker 5: So absolutely okay. 135 00:06:43,840 --> 00:06:45,240 Speaker 1: So that's defensiveness. 136 00:06:45,800 --> 00:06:48,400 Speaker 5: Okay, So the third one is contempt. 137 00:06:48,600 --> 00:06:51,200 Speaker 2: Now you use the word resentment before, and that was 138 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:54,440 Speaker 2: spot on Because resentment and contempt kind of two sides 139 00:06:54,480 --> 00:06:57,760 Speaker 2: of the same coin, they're very much related. I would 140 00:06:57,800 --> 00:07:03,960 Speaker 2: describe contempt as a nastier version of criticism. So contempt 141 00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:08,520 Speaker 2: is where we are attacking the other person, but we're 142 00:07:08,560 --> 00:07:12,680 Speaker 2: doing it with the sense of moral superiority, right. It's 143 00:07:12,680 --> 00:07:15,240 Speaker 2: this sense that I am better than you, I know 144 00:07:15,400 --> 00:07:18,400 Speaker 2: better than you, and I'm looking down on you. So 145 00:07:18,440 --> 00:07:23,080 Speaker 2: it's really quite a nasty fighting tactic and it's really 146 00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:25,240 Speaker 2: awful to be on the receiving end of as well. 147 00:07:25,360 --> 00:07:28,640 Speaker 3: As you're talking about contempt, something that I'm curious about 148 00:07:28,720 --> 00:07:31,440 Speaker 3: is where does banter come into all of that, because 149 00:07:31,560 --> 00:07:34,400 Speaker 3: is banter different to contempt because I find often and 150 00:07:35,120 --> 00:07:37,280 Speaker 3: I feel like it's in the Australian culture, you know, 151 00:07:37,440 --> 00:07:40,400 Speaker 3: talking about banter, and I've observed it in dynamics in 152 00:07:40,440 --> 00:07:44,240 Speaker 3: relationships where someone's using banter as a form of connection, 153 00:07:44,440 --> 00:07:47,480 Speaker 3: but the person on the receiving end it actually stings 154 00:07:47,720 --> 00:07:48,320 Speaker 3: as well. 155 00:07:48,800 --> 00:07:51,320 Speaker 1: So yeah, I don't know, is there a difference there. 156 00:07:51,760 --> 00:07:54,120 Speaker 2: There is a difference, but as you say, banter can 157 00:07:54,240 --> 00:07:57,160 Speaker 2: become contempt, right, So I guess it's all in. You know, 158 00:07:57,240 --> 00:07:59,840 Speaker 2: are both people kind of having fun and enjoying this 159 00:07:59,920 --> 00:08:02,280 Speaker 2: and having a laugh, or is one person feeling really 160 00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:05,640 Speaker 2: awful at the end of it. And contempt doesn't even 161 00:08:05,720 --> 00:08:08,440 Speaker 2: have to just be words, right, Contempt can also be 162 00:08:08,520 --> 00:08:12,080 Speaker 2: facial expressions. The eye roll is the biggest kind of 163 00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:15,760 Speaker 2: predictor and sign of a communication pattern that shows contempt. 164 00:08:16,120 --> 00:08:18,280 Speaker 2: So if someone's talking or bringing up a complaint and 165 00:08:18,320 --> 00:08:20,240 Speaker 2: your partner just sort of rolls their eyes at you, 166 00:08:20,720 --> 00:08:21,960 Speaker 2: that's a sign of contempt. 167 00:08:22,080 --> 00:08:24,600 Speaker 5: Or they're like, oh sighn and and you know, oh, 168 00:08:24,680 --> 00:08:26,960 Speaker 5: here we go again. You're always talking about this. 169 00:08:27,080 --> 00:08:28,880 Speaker 2: You think you have so many problems you should live 170 00:08:29,000 --> 00:08:30,440 Speaker 2: You should live a day in my shoes and see 171 00:08:30,480 --> 00:08:32,199 Speaker 2: what I have to deal with. It's that sense of 172 00:08:32,280 --> 00:08:34,960 Speaker 2: I'm better than you, your problems don't matter, and like 173 00:08:35,040 --> 00:08:35,960 Speaker 2: a crimea river. 174 00:08:37,079 --> 00:08:38,679 Speaker 5: The thing about contempt. 175 00:08:38,559 --> 00:08:41,920 Speaker 2: Is that the research shows it's actually the most destructive 176 00:08:42,480 --> 00:08:46,720 Speaker 2: of the unhealthy, unhelpful fighting styles of those four horsemen, 177 00:08:46,960 --> 00:08:50,280 Speaker 2: and it's the biggest predictor of divorce and relationship breakdown. 178 00:08:50,320 --> 00:08:52,120 Speaker 1: Really yeah wow, So. 179 00:08:52,080 --> 00:08:54,080 Speaker 5: We really want to catch that one and change it. 180 00:08:54,360 --> 00:08:57,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, So what about the fourth one? 181 00:08:57,440 --> 00:09:02,240 Speaker 2: Fourth one is what we refer to as stonewalling. Oh, Okay, 182 00:09:02,320 --> 00:09:07,040 Speaker 2: So this is where a person essentially shuts down in 183 00:09:07,080 --> 00:09:09,960 Speaker 2: the fight, and there's a reason for this, right you. 184 00:09:10,440 --> 00:09:12,840 Speaker 2: The person who is shutting down is maybe not necessarily 185 00:09:12,880 --> 00:09:15,280 Speaker 2: trying to be difficult in any way, but they're becoming 186 00:09:15,360 --> 00:09:18,800 Speaker 2: sort of overwhelmed and flooded. So this sort of becoming 187 00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:22,840 Speaker 2: flooded psychologically or emotionally flooded, and they don't feel like 188 00:09:22,840 --> 00:09:25,280 Speaker 2: they have the ability or the skills to regulate that, 189 00:09:25,680 --> 00:09:28,600 Speaker 2: so instead they shut down. And the feeling for the 190 00:09:28,600 --> 00:09:31,160 Speaker 2: person on the other end of that is they find 191 00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:34,559 Speaker 2: that person to be very detached, very cold. It kind 192 00:09:34,600 --> 00:09:37,040 Speaker 2: of comes across as if they don't care, because that 193 00:09:37,120 --> 00:09:39,240 Speaker 2: shut down could be like I'm not engaging with this 194 00:09:39,280 --> 00:09:42,079 Speaker 2: conversation anymore. I walk off, and then I go about 195 00:09:42,080 --> 00:09:44,680 Speaker 2: my day normally and naturally, as if nothing has happened. 196 00:09:44,960 --> 00:09:46,079 Speaker 5: Now, that's what it looks like. 197 00:09:46,200 --> 00:09:48,640 Speaker 2: That's not necessarily what it feels like for the person 198 00:09:48,680 --> 00:09:51,480 Speaker 2: who is doing the stone walling, but for the person 199 00:09:51,480 --> 00:09:54,440 Speaker 2: on the receiving end of that, it's like, don't they care, 200 00:09:54,560 --> 00:09:56,680 Speaker 2: Like we just had this disagreement or I just brought 201 00:09:56,680 --> 00:09:58,520 Speaker 2: something up with them, and they've shut it down and 202 00:09:58,520 --> 00:10:00,640 Speaker 2: they've walked off and they've gone about their days if 203 00:10:00,680 --> 00:10:03,760 Speaker 2: nothing's happened, So it can be really confusing for the 204 00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:05,840 Speaker 2: person on the receiving end of the stone walling. 205 00:10:07,040 --> 00:10:10,880 Speaker 3: Something I am curious about is crying, because you know, 206 00:10:11,000 --> 00:10:15,160 Speaker 3: crying is gonna happen in conflict. I'm definitely a crier 207 00:10:15,240 --> 00:10:15,680 Speaker 3: as well. 208 00:10:15,720 --> 00:10:15,960 Speaker 2: They do. 209 00:10:16,160 --> 00:10:19,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, we're all human, right, But I guess 210 00:10:19,280 --> 00:10:22,680 Speaker 3: something I'm curious about is can crime be ever used 211 00:10:22,720 --> 00:10:25,520 Speaker 3: as a form of manipulation in conflict? 212 00:10:27,440 --> 00:10:32,000 Speaker 2: Look, I think for most people, crying is very natural. 213 00:10:32,080 --> 00:10:34,800 Speaker 2: Like I can't cry on demands. I don't know about you, 214 00:10:35,080 --> 00:10:37,360 Speaker 2: but I can't. I can't sort of cry on cue. 215 00:10:37,640 --> 00:10:40,360 Speaker 5: Yeah, unless you're a really good actor. Maybe yes. 216 00:10:41,760 --> 00:10:45,280 Speaker 2: So I think for a lot of people, crying is genuine. 217 00:10:45,960 --> 00:10:49,000 Speaker 2: But it's not to say that there aren't people who 218 00:10:49,200 --> 00:10:52,160 Speaker 2: might sort of like lean into the crying and sort 219 00:10:52,160 --> 00:10:55,000 Speaker 2: of display it in a way that is maybe more 220 00:10:55,080 --> 00:10:58,680 Speaker 2: hysterical than what their true feelings are. Maybe someone is 221 00:10:58,760 --> 00:11:01,160 Speaker 2: sad and they do want to cry, and they have 222 00:11:01,280 --> 00:11:03,680 Speaker 2: tears that come out, but it's the kind of other 223 00:11:03,800 --> 00:11:06,800 Speaker 2: expressions that go along with that, you know, am I 224 00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:09,800 Speaker 2: like laying on the floor in a heap with my 225 00:11:09,920 --> 00:11:12,040 Speaker 2: head in my hands, sort of crying in a way 226 00:11:12,040 --> 00:11:14,720 Speaker 2: that's very dramatic. Now, that might actually be a true 227 00:11:14,800 --> 00:11:17,760 Speaker 2: representation of how someone feels, and if that's the case, 228 00:11:17,800 --> 00:11:19,120 Speaker 2: then that is what it is. 229 00:11:19,600 --> 00:11:21,360 Speaker 5: But sometimes we do want to be. 230 00:11:21,320 --> 00:11:24,760 Speaker 2: Careful about not sort of further exaggerating our emotions. And 231 00:11:25,480 --> 00:11:29,040 Speaker 2: if we feel the need to exaggerate our emotions to 232 00:11:29,080 --> 00:11:31,640 Speaker 2: be heard by our partner, then something is going wrong 233 00:11:31,680 --> 00:11:34,600 Speaker 2: in the relationship. It's a sign that we don't feel 234 00:11:34,640 --> 00:11:37,320 Speaker 2: like our message is getting across. We don't feel like 235 00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:41,400 Speaker 2: we've been understood by the person we're trying to communicate with. 236 00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:45,600 Speaker 3: With a lot of these communication behaviors can can you change? 237 00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:48,360 Speaker 3: Like are they quite fixed? I mean, is this where 238 00:11:48,440 --> 00:11:50,040 Speaker 3: couples therapy would come into it? 239 00:11:50,240 --> 00:11:50,880 Speaker 1: Yeah? 240 00:11:50,920 --> 00:11:55,520 Speaker 2: Absolutely absolutely these patterns can change. Look, people have their 241 00:11:55,600 --> 00:12:00,640 Speaker 2: natural temperaments, right, I'm greek, I'm a bit fiery. 242 00:12:00,640 --> 00:12:03,120 Speaker 5: Right, I love it. There's probably no amount. 243 00:12:02,840 --> 00:12:05,280 Speaker 2: Of couple's therapy that's going to change the fire and 244 00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:06,560 Speaker 2: passion inside my blood. 245 00:12:07,880 --> 00:12:09,080 Speaker 5: But we can. 246 00:12:08,880 --> 00:12:14,320 Speaker 2: Absolutely learn skills and ways to communicate in healthier and 247 00:12:14,360 --> 00:12:17,240 Speaker 2: more effective ways, ways to kind of notice when the 248 00:12:17,280 --> 00:12:19,720 Speaker 2: fire is building and be able to sort of regulate 249 00:12:19,760 --> 00:12:22,680 Speaker 2: that or if we're someone who's stone walls, notice when 250 00:12:22,760 --> 00:12:25,360 Speaker 2: that's happening and find ways to kind of ease ourselves 251 00:12:25,440 --> 00:12:26,479 Speaker 2: back into the conversation. 252 00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:29,720 Speaker 3: It's really interesting too, because as much as fighting cannot 253 00:12:30,040 --> 00:12:33,200 Speaker 3: it doesn't feel good when you're fighting, but also it's 254 00:12:33,240 --> 00:12:35,720 Speaker 3: going to teach us more about ourselves and also the 255 00:12:35,800 --> 00:12:38,800 Speaker 3: dynamics that are playing out in a relationship. And something 256 00:12:38,840 --> 00:12:41,240 Speaker 3: you did talk about in season one about well, we 257 00:12:41,280 --> 00:12:43,600 Speaker 3: need to be in relationship because how else are we 258 00:12:43,680 --> 00:12:46,240 Speaker 3: going to learn? And I feel like that's the same 259 00:12:46,280 --> 00:12:47,880 Speaker 3: case when it comes to conflict too. 260 00:12:48,160 --> 00:12:48,640 Speaker 5: Yeah. 261 00:12:48,680 --> 00:12:51,520 Speaker 2: Absolutely, it teaches us a lot about ourselves and the 262 00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:52,480 Speaker 2: relationship we're in. 263 00:12:52,880 --> 00:12:55,280 Speaker 1: So where do our fighting styles come from? 264 00:12:55,680 --> 00:12:58,480 Speaker 2: I'm going to answer this with a case example of 265 00:12:58,520 --> 00:13:00,440 Speaker 2: a particular couple that I've seen. 266 00:13:00,840 --> 00:13:02,720 Speaker 5: We'll call them John and Mary. 267 00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:08,840 Speaker 2: Okay, and John was a stone waller and Mary lent 268 00:13:08,920 --> 00:13:13,040 Speaker 2: into the criticism, right, and so we talked about attachment 269 00:13:13,080 --> 00:13:16,360 Speaker 2: styles in the last season. It really comes down a 270 00:13:16,360 --> 00:13:20,080 Speaker 2: lot to attachment style as well as our natural temperament. 271 00:13:20,360 --> 00:13:24,120 Speaker 2: But if we lean into attachment styles, Mary she liked 272 00:13:24,160 --> 00:13:28,640 Speaker 2: to or she started to criticize, and then John would stonewall. Right. 273 00:13:28,680 --> 00:13:32,520 Speaker 2: So John had the avoidant attachment style. He didn't like closeness, 274 00:13:32,560 --> 00:13:35,679 Speaker 2: he felt uncomfortable with emotions, he felt uncomfortable with conflict, 275 00:13:35,920 --> 00:13:39,080 Speaker 2: and so he would shut it down. Mary had the 276 00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:42,079 Speaker 2: more anxious attachment style. So when John would shut down, 277 00:13:42,560 --> 00:13:46,320 Speaker 2: she would get worried, she'd feel misunderstood, she would feel 278 00:13:46,360 --> 00:13:49,360 Speaker 2: unheard and show. She would get louder and louder her 279 00:13:49,400 --> 00:13:53,280 Speaker 2: criticisms and her commentary would become harsher and meaner and 280 00:13:53,360 --> 00:13:56,680 Speaker 2: more direct, and so she would escalate and he would 281 00:13:56,720 --> 00:13:59,280 Speaker 2: go the other way, and so the fights would become 282 00:13:59,440 --> 00:14:02,480 Speaker 2: really big. And it really was a difference rooted in 283 00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:08,480 Speaker 2: different attachment styles between the two of them. 284 00:14:08,640 --> 00:14:11,360 Speaker 3: After this shotbreak duck down. If is going to break 285 00:14:11,400 --> 00:14:17,800 Speaker 3: down what having a good fight looks like? Okay, Anastasia, 286 00:14:18,040 --> 00:14:20,600 Speaker 3: I think this is the moment we've all been waiting for. 287 00:14:21,080 --> 00:14:23,560 Speaker 1: How do we have a good fight? Can you break 288 00:14:23,560 --> 00:14:24,320 Speaker 1: this down for us? 289 00:14:24,520 --> 00:14:24,760 Speaker 5: Yes? 290 00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:29,440 Speaker 2: Okay, So for each of the four horsemen, those four 291 00:14:29,680 --> 00:14:32,240 Speaker 2: unhealthy fighting styles that we can fall into the trap 292 00:14:32,280 --> 00:14:35,160 Speaker 2: of the good news is there's an antidote for them. 293 00:14:35,200 --> 00:14:38,480 Speaker 1: Oh, thank goodness, there's hope. 294 00:14:38,800 --> 00:14:40,400 Speaker 2: So I'm going to talk us through the flour and 295 00:14:40,440 --> 00:14:42,680 Speaker 2: then the opposite of what we should be doing and 296 00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:45,080 Speaker 2: how we can lean into healthier communication patterns. 297 00:14:45,120 --> 00:14:48,320 Speaker 5: Okay, So the first one was criticism. 298 00:14:48,440 --> 00:14:51,120 Speaker 2: So this is where we might attack our partner or 299 00:14:51,120 --> 00:14:53,920 Speaker 2: someone we're in a relationship with, and we do so 300 00:14:54,240 --> 00:14:57,400 Speaker 2: with insults, and we might use language that's kind of 301 00:14:57,480 --> 00:15:01,520 Speaker 2: mean and unkind. So this might sound something like you 302 00:15:01,560 --> 00:15:03,600 Speaker 2: always leave the dishes on the sink, you never put 303 00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:04,880 Speaker 2: them in the dish washer. 304 00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:06,360 Speaker 5: I'm always having to clean up after you. 305 00:15:06,560 --> 00:15:08,160 Speaker 2: Okay, So it's a bit of a criticism and an 306 00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:10,480 Speaker 2: attack doesn't feel nice to be on the receiving end of. 307 00:15:11,480 --> 00:15:15,560 Speaker 2: If you're listening and this sounds like you, then my 308 00:15:15,680 --> 00:15:21,400 Speaker 2: recommendation for you is a gentle, soft startup. So, as 309 00:15:21,400 --> 00:15:24,840 Speaker 2: you were saying before, Ashani, leaning into the eye statements. 310 00:15:25,080 --> 00:15:26,560 Speaker 5: So instead of starting. 311 00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:28,400 Speaker 2: With you, you do this, you don't do this, you 312 00:15:28,560 --> 00:15:30,960 Speaker 2: always do this, you never do this, right, we tend 313 00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:34,600 Speaker 2: to use these blanket statements when we're in that critical style. 314 00:15:35,240 --> 00:15:39,080 Speaker 2: Instead of doing that, use eye statements and communicate how 315 00:15:39,120 --> 00:15:42,800 Speaker 2: you feel. I feel sad because I feel like a 316 00:15:42,840 --> 00:15:45,840 Speaker 2: lot of the housework falls on me. I would really 317 00:15:45,880 --> 00:15:48,800 Speaker 2: appreciate it if you could put the dishes in the 318 00:15:48,840 --> 00:15:52,480 Speaker 2: dish washer tonight. So we're telling the person how we're feeling, 319 00:15:52,960 --> 00:15:57,680 Speaker 2: we're using eye statements, and we're making a positive. 320 00:15:57,240 --> 00:15:58,480 Speaker 5: Request from them. 321 00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:01,120 Speaker 2: So we're asking what we would like them to do 322 00:16:01,200 --> 00:16:04,000 Speaker 2: that would make us feel better as opposed to what 323 00:16:04,080 --> 00:16:05,720 Speaker 2: we want them to do less of or what they 324 00:16:05,720 --> 00:16:07,720 Speaker 2: should do less of. So it's that idea of a 325 00:16:07,760 --> 00:16:10,480 Speaker 2: positive request, a gentle startup, and a positive reques. 326 00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:14,000 Speaker 3: And it's really great you're giving those examples. First of all, dishwasher. 327 00:16:14,400 --> 00:16:17,800 Speaker 3: The dishwasher example is very relatable. I'm I'm so glad 328 00:16:17,800 --> 00:16:22,480 Speaker 3: to useta. But also I find that it's even just 329 00:16:22,520 --> 00:16:25,400 Speaker 3: noticing the difference between the examples of criticism. The way 330 00:16:25,440 --> 00:16:29,520 Speaker 3: you did the gentle startup, just the undertone was so different, 331 00:16:29,640 --> 00:16:33,160 Speaker 3: like you're going from attacking energy to hey, I want 332 00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:35,560 Speaker 3: to meet you in this conversation on equal ground. And 333 00:16:35,600 --> 00:16:37,920 Speaker 3: that's kind of what I was feeling in that as well. 334 00:16:38,120 --> 00:16:39,600 Speaker 5: Yeah, great, good. 335 00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:41,880 Speaker 3: Because I also find that it's very easy when you 336 00:16:41,920 --> 00:16:45,720 Speaker 3: get these tools right, to still be kind of in 337 00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:48,400 Speaker 3: the criticism because you can just be like I feel 338 00:16:48,600 --> 00:16:51,480 Speaker 3: that you're very selfish, you know what I mean, Like 339 00:16:51,520 --> 00:16:54,000 Speaker 3: that tone the undertone as well. So I think it's 340 00:16:54,040 --> 00:16:55,920 Speaker 3: one of those things where you kin't have to gather 341 00:16:56,000 --> 00:16:59,280 Speaker 3: yourself a little bit before entering that conversation. 342 00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:01,920 Speaker 1: Because it's vulnerable. It's vulnerable for both parties. 343 00:17:02,080 --> 00:17:03,760 Speaker 5: Absolutely, absolutely, Okay. 344 00:17:03,760 --> 00:17:06,320 Speaker 3: So that was for criticism, and then we've got gentle startup, 345 00:17:06,399 --> 00:17:07,800 Speaker 3: So that was the anecdote for that. 346 00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:08,400 Speaker 5: Okay. 347 00:17:08,600 --> 00:17:12,680 Speaker 2: So then defensiveness. Okay, So if you're someone who falls 348 00:17:12,840 --> 00:17:16,040 Speaker 2: into the trap of defensiveness, you don't like to take responsibility. 349 00:17:16,280 --> 00:17:18,960 Speaker 2: You like to bring up a past disagreement so that 350 00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:20,439 Speaker 2: you can sort of, you know, throw some of the 351 00:17:20,440 --> 00:17:23,520 Speaker 2: responsibility back on your partner as well. If this is you, 352 00:17:24,320 --> 00:17:27,240 Speaker 2: then I hate to break it to you. But the 353 00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:31,760 Speaker 2: antidote here is try to take some responsibility. 354 00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:32,440 Speaker 5: Okay. 355 00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:36,080 Speaker 2: So it doesn't mean you have to take full total responsibility, 356 00:17:36,480 --> 00:17:39,240 Speaker 2: but it might mean that you say, I can tell 357 00:17:39,280 --> 00:17:41,200 Speaker 2: why it feels that way for you. I can see 358 00:17:41,200 --> 00:17:43,879 Speaker 2: where you're coming from. I did leave my dishes on 359 00:17:43,920 --> 00:17:46,040 Speaker 2: the sink and I didn't put them in the dishwasher, right, 360 00:17:46,120 --> 00:17:48,800 Speaker 2: So I don't have to take responsibility for everything, but 361 00:17:48,840 --> 00:17:51,440 Speaker 2: I can take responsibility for the fact that, yes, today 362 00:17:51,520 --> 00:17:53,520 Speaker 2: I did leave my dishes on the sink and didn't 363 00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:54,480 Speaker 2: put them in the dishwasher. 364 00:17:54,800 --> 00:17:55,440 Speaker 5: Yeah. 365 00:17:55,520 --> 00:17:58,240 Speaker 2: So if you do fall into the trap of defensiveness, 366 00:17:58,359 --> 00:18:01,440 Speaker 2: lean into small bites of taking responsibility. 367 00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:04,880 Speaker 3: I really like that you're saying small bites of responsibility 368 00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:07,600 Speaker 3: as well, because I can imagine it being quite triggering 369 00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:09,719 Speaker 3: when you're in a state of defensiveness, being like, what 370 00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:12,879 Speaker 3: do you mean I need to take responsibility? And a 371 00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:15,679 Speaker 3: reframe that's helped me a lot is around how the 372 00:18:15,720 --> 00:18:19,520 Speaker 3: word responsibility it's actually our ability to respond, you know, 373 00:18:19,640 --> 00:18:21,960 Speaker 3: I like that, isn't that great? I remember momental told 374 00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:24,040 Speaker 3: me that. I'm like, wow, that just fully changed my 375 00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:26,320 Speaker 3: world of the word responsibility. 376 00:18:26,600 --> 00:18:26,840 Speaker 2: Yeah. 377 00:18:26,880 --> 00:18:27,359 Speaker 5: I like that. 378 00:18:27,560 --> 00:18:30,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's great. There you go, listeners, You're welcome. 379 00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:33,680 Speaker 5: So then the next one contempt. 380 00:18:34,040 --> 00:18:38,280 Speaker 2: If you're someone who falls into this pattern of displaying 381 00:18:38,320 --> 00:18:41,959 Speaker 2: contempt to your partner or to those around you, then 382 00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:44,040 Speaker 2: my recommendation for you is. 383 00:18:44,160 --> 00:18:46,720 Speaker 5: Build a culture of appreciation. 384 00:18:47,720 --> 00:18:51,720 Speaker 2: Okay, so when you feel like you're really irritated with 385 00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:53,280 Speaker 2: your partner or you want to sort of put them 386 00:18:53,320 --> 00:18:58,280 Speaker 2: down or they're frustrating you, instead of making those mean comments, 387 00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:01,840 Speaker 2: think about the positive qualities that you like about your partner. 388 00:19:01,920 --> 00:19:04,639 Speaker 2: Think about the reason you started a relationship with them 389 00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:07,160 Speaker 2: in the first place, think about the things they do 390 00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:10,879 Speaker 2: in your relationship that you're really grateful for. Into that 391 00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:14,720 Speaker 2: culture of appreciation for the relationship you have and for 392 00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:17,480 Speaker 2: your partner, and this will help you respond in a 393 00:19:17,520 --> 00:19:19,960 Speaker 2: way that feels calmer and kinder. 394 00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:23,760 Speaker 3: And I can imagine in that appreciation piece it kind 395 00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:26,200 Speaker 3: of gives you perspective on everything as well, because it's 396 00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:28,760 Speaker 3: so easy to kind of go into tunnel vision when 397 00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:31,080 Speaker 3: you're focusing on an issue. So I can imagine it 398 00:19:31,160 --> 00:19:33,240 Speaker 3: just kind of allowing you to take a step back, 399 00:19:33,280 --> 00:19:35,600 Speaker 3: be like, Okay, let's just let's just look at everything 400 00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:36,520 Speaker 3: for a moment. 401 00:19:36,440 --> 00:19:38,680 Speaker 2: Exactly, not just this one thing that right now I'm 402 00:19:38,680 --> 00:19:41,119 Speaker 2: annoyed about, but actually, what's all the good in the 403 00:19:41,120 --> 00:19:42,040 Speaker 2: relationship as well? 404 00:19:42,120 --> 00:19:42,600 Speaker 5: I love that? 405 00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:47,440 Speaker 1: So what's the antidote for stonewalling? So stonewalling, so this is. 406 00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:51,080 Speaker 2: Where we shut down, we detach, we walk away from 407 00:19:51,120 --> 00:19:53,000 Speaker 2: our partner, We go I'm not having this conversation with you. 408 00:19:53,040 --> 00:19:55,600 Speaker 2: We're done talking about it, and then they leave and 409 00:19:55,640 --> 00:19:56,360 Speaker 2: go about their day. 410 00:19:56,560 --> 00:19:56,879 Speaker 5: Okay. 411 00:19:56,920 --> 00:19:59,960 Speaker 2: So, if you're someone who falls into the trap of stonewalling, 412 00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:04,520 Speaker 2: this usually happens because you feel overwhelmed or flooded by 413 00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:07,280 Speaker 2: emotions or psychologically, you just feel flooded. 414 00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:07,480 Speaker 5: In that moment. 415 00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:11,920 Speaker 2: So what we want to help someone do is self soothe, right, 416 00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:15,840 Speaker 2: Calm the nervous system, Regulate the nervous system. If you 417 00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:19,560 Speaker 2: feel overwhelmed, take the pause, take the time away, Tell 418 00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:22,639 Speaker 2: your partner I'm going to step away for ten minutes, 419 00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:25,040 Speaker 2: twenty minutes, but then I'm going to come back to 420 00:20:25,080 --> 00:20:28,600 Speaker 2: this conversation and use those ten or twenty minutes to 421 00:20:28,800 --> 00:20:32,600 Speaker 2: regulate yourself. We've talked about self soothing before, but thinking 422 00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:35,679 Speaker 2: about those sensory strategies that you can lean into to 423 00:20:35,840 --> 00:20:39,240 Speaker 2: calm yourself down and bring yourself to a point where 424 00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:42,280 Speaker 2: you can talk about feelings, because at the core of 425 00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:46,040 Speaker 2: a lot of disagreements and arguments are feelings really, So 426 00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:49,280 Speaker 2: you know, have a cup of tea, have some quiet time, 427 00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:52,880 Speaker 2: put on some gentle music, regulate yourself in a way 428 00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:54,920 Speaker 2: that feels right for you so that you can come 429 00:20:54,960 --> 00:20:57,119 Speaker 2: back and have a healthy conversation with your partner. 430 00:20:57,400 --> 00:20:58,920 Speaker 1: Okay, so what's the goal here? 431 00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:01,720 Speaker 2: I guess the goal is we want healthier relationships, right, 432 00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:04,480 Speaker 2: and one of the ways we can think about that 433 00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:08,600 Speaker 2: is through a ratio of positive to negative interactions that 434 00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:12,960 Speaker 2: we have with our partner. So in our general relationship, 435 00:21:13,160 --> 00:21:16,960 Speaker 2: we want the ratio to be at least twenty to one, 436 00:21:17,359 --> 00:21:21,080 Speaker 2: twenty positive interactions to one negative interaction with them. This 437 00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:23,120 Speaker 2: is just day to day out of conflict, when we're 438 00:21:23,120 --> 00:21:26,280 Speaker 2: going about life, right, twenty to one ratio. When we're 439 00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:31,880 Speaker 2: in conflict, we want a minimum five to one ratio, 440 00:21:32,040 --> 00:21:36,280 Speaker 2: So this is five positive interactions to one negative. Now, 441 00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:39,080 Speaker 2: if you actually think about that in the context of conflict. 442 00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:41,360 Speaker 5: That's not always easy to do. When we're in. 443 00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:45,920 Speaker 2: The depths of contempt or stonewalling, or criticism or defensiveness, 444 00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:48,520 Speaker 2: it's really easy to lead into those negative sort of 445 00:21:48,600 --> 00:21:51,120 Speaker 2: actions or comments we might make. But if we think 446 00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:55,280 Speaker 2: about what positive interactions in conflict might look like, it's 447 00:21:55,320 --> 00:21:58,440 Speaker 2: anything that connects us with our partner, right, we really 448 00:21:58,440 --> 00:22:01,600 Speaker 2: want it to be us versus the problem, not you 449 00:22:01,720 --> 00:22:05,360 Speaker 2: against me. So if my partner's telling me something that's 450 00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:07,600 Speaker 2: concerning them, it might be as simple as me nodding 451 00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:08,000 Speaker 2: my head. 452 00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:12,000 Speaker 5: That's one. It might be just like you did hmm, okay, 453 00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:12,640 Speaker 5: so it's shit. 454 00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:16,320 Speaker 2: It's showing the sign that I'm listening, that I'm attending, 455 00:22:16,359 --> 00:22:18,800 Speaker 2: that I'm I'm taking in what you're saying, I'm making 456 00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:23,040 Speaker 2: eye contact with you right. All these nonverbal cues are 457 00:22:23,359 --> 00:22:27,159 Speaker 2: positive interactions that we can have during conflict, and so 458 00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:29,159 Speaker 2: we want to be aiming for that ratio of at 459 00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:32,080 Speaker 2: least five to one for healthy fights. So if we 460 00:22:32,120 --> 00:22:35,280 Speaker 2: can really tune into these elements, then what we'll find 461 00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:38,280 Speaker 2: is that our fighting will become healthier and more meaningful 462 00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:39,160 Speaker 2: for the relationship. 463 00:22:42,359 --> 00:22:44,840 Speaker 3: After this shortbreak, we hear from a listener who was 464 00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:48,000 Speaker 3: frustrated that their parent can't handle confrontation at all. 465 00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:52,639 Speaker 1: Stay with us, baby, hearb. 466 00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:57,760 Speaker 2: Hearby I'm having a serious christis VRB having a crisis. 467 00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:01,439 Speaker 3: We've reached that time in our episode where we answer 468 00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:03,439 Speaker 3: a question or dilemma from one of you. 469 00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:05,480 Speaker 1: This dilemma comes from Jake. 470 00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:08,840 Speaker 4: My dad and I aren't really seeing eida eye right now, 471 00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:12,040 Speaker 4: and it's been tough. Most of my family knows what's 472 00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:14,280 Speaker 4: going on, and honestly, a lot of them are on 473 00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:17,200 Speaker 4: my side. I want to talk to my dad because 474 00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:19,560 Speaker 4: this conflict clearly needs to be worked through, and I'm 475 00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:22,080 Speaker 4: ready to listen and try and find some kind of resolution. 476 00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:25,880 Speaker 4: But the problem is he's been avoiding me. He won't 477 00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:29,159 Speaker 4: answer my calls or texts. It's frustrating because how am 478 00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:31,280 Speaker 4: I supposed to fix things with someone who just doesn't 479 00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:33,639 Speaker 4: want to even talk about it. I don't want to 480 00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:35,840 Speaker 4: give up on this, but it feels like I'm stuck 481 00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:38,520 Speaker 4: with no way forward when he won't engage. How do 482 00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:40,879 Speaker 4: I solve conflict with someone who isn't willing to come 483 00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:41,520 Speaker 4: to the table. 484 00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:45,879 Speaker 1: That's so hard, Jake, That's a tough situation. 485 00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:47,440 Speaker 5: Absolutely. 486 00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:49,600 Speaker 2: It is really hard when you're the one putting in 487 00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:53,280 Speaker 2: the effort trying to have a conversation, trying to resolve things, 488 00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:55,400 Speaker 2: and the other person is just kind of not meeting 489 00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:59,400 Speaker 2: you where you're at. My recommendation for you would be 490 00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:02,879 Speaker 2: Dad's obviously not at a point where he's willing to 491 00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:06,960 Speaker 2: or able to resolve the conflict and have those conversations 492 00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:10,560 Speaker 2: that need to be had. So instead of trying trying 493 00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:16,200 Speaker 2: to solve the problem rebuild the relationship, I would say 494 00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:18,399 Speaker 2: you could reach out with some sort of message or 495 00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:21,720 Speaker 2: call that says, look, I know we've got this disagreement 496 00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:23,360 Speaker 2: going on between the two of us that we haven't 497 00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:27,560 Speaker 2: been able to resolve, but I really value our relationship. 498 00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:30,240 Speaker 2: I value you as a dad, I love you, and 499 00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:33,000 Speaker 2: I want to have the connection and the relationship with you. 500 00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:37,160 Speaker 2: So can we temporarily put that to the side and 501 00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:41,680 Speaker 2: keep connecting right And it's through the foundation of connection 502 00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:44,919 Speaker 2: that you're going to eventually be able to resolve whatever 503 00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:49,679 Speaker 2: the conflict is. Connection, emotional connection with someone is such 504 00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:53,399 Speaker 2: a great tool to platform from to be able to 505 00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:56,800 Speaker 2: have hard conversations. And what feels like is missing right 506 00:24:56,840 --> 00:24:59,080 Speaker 2: now for the two of you is just that pure 507 00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:02,640 Speaker 2: bond that you can really lean into to be able 508 00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:04,160 Speaker 2: to have then harder conversations. 509 00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:05,080 Speaker 5: Laiter down the track. 510 00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:11,600 Speaker 1: Good luck, Jake, Anastasia. 511 00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:14,280 Speaker 3: I feel like this episode has helped get us to 512 00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:16,840 Speaker 3: really think about why we fight and how to do 513 00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:19,840 Speaker 3: it in an effective way with good intentions. Can you 514 00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:22,440 Speaker 3: reiterate the main takeaways from today's episode. 515 00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:28,000 Speaker 2: First of all, there are four unhealthy ways of fighting criticism, defensiveness, contempt, 516 00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:32,560 Speaker 2: and stonewalling. Second, if you want to fight fair, consider 517 00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:36,720 Speaker 2: the opposites and antidotes to these unhealthy patterns. Third, make 518 00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:40,800 Speaker 2: sure you have more positive to negative interactions during fights 519 00:25:41,120 --> 00:25:44,280 Speaker 2: as well as during your relationship. And last, attack the 520 00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:47,359 Speaker 2: problem not each other work together as a team to 521 00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:48,280 Speaker 2: solve the issue. 522 00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:50,119 Speaker 3: If you have a burning question for us, there are 523 00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:52,000 Speaker 3: a few ways to get in touch. Links are in 524 00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:52,719 Speaker 3: the show notes. 525 00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:56,360 Speaker 2: And remember, while I am a psychologist, this podcast isn't 526 00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:59,520 Speaker 2: a diagnostic tool, and the advice and ideas we present 527 00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:03,320 Speaker 2: here should always take into account your personal medical history. 528 00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:07,160 Speaker 2: The executive producer of But Are You Happy? Is Naima Brown. 529 00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:09,440 Speaker 1: Our senior producer is Charlie Blackman. 530 00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:12,080 Speaker 2: Sounders and editing by Jacob Brown. 531 00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:14,360 Speaker 1: I'm a Shani Dante and. 532 00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:18,240 Speaker 2: I'm doctor Anastasia Hernus. The names and stories of clients 533 00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:22,400 Speaker 2: discussed have been changed for the purpose of maintaining anonymity. 534 00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:25,440 Speaker 2: If this conversation brought up any difficult feelings for you, 535 00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:28,160 Speaker 2: we have links for more resources in the show notes 536 00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:31,400 Speaker 2: around the topics we discussed today. You can also reach 537 00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:34,840 Speaker 2: out to organizations like Beyond Blue or Lifeline if you're 538 00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:36,600 Speaker 2: wanting more immediate support. 539 00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:40,000 Speaker 3: Tune in next week as we unpack parentification and how 540 00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:42,480 Speaker 3: to recover when your parents have made you the mediator 541 00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:45,359 Speaker 3: between them or put you in charge of holding onto 542 00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:49,120 Speaker 3: their emotional baggage. Mamma MIAs studios are styled with furniture 543 00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:52,800 Speaker 3: from Fenton and Benton. Visit Fenton Andfenton dot com dot au. 544 00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:55,400 Speaker 3: Thanks for listening and see you next time.