1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:04,280 Speaker 1: Hello, four five six club. This is Holly Wainwright. I 2 00:00:04,320 --> 00:00:08,080 Speaker 1: am the host of MID and if you're discovering MID 3 00:00:08,240 --> 00:00:11,000 Speaker 1: Conversations for gen X women who are anything but for 4 00:00:11,080 --> 00:00:14,840 Speaker 1: the first time, you have a whole lot of episodes 5 00:00:14,880 --> 00:00:17,320 Speaker 1: that you can go back and listen to. And you're lucky, 6 00:00:17,480 --> 00:00:19,400 Speaker 1: if I say so myself, because some of them are 7 00:00:19,400 --> 00:00:22,400 Speaker 1: bloody great. In fact, all of them are bloody great. 8 00:00:23,320 --> 00:00:26,160 Speaker 1: While you might have stumbled across some MID episodes before, 9 00:00:26,840 --> 00:00:29,560 Speaker 1: the one I'm sharing with you today is the very 10 00:00:29,600 --> 00:00:34,159 Speaker 1: first one we ever recorded. It features the remarkable Julie 11 00:00:34,159 --> 00:00:37,080 Speaker 1: Goodwin you know of originally Master Chef fame, but many 12 00:00:37,120 --> 00:00:40,280 Speaker 1: other things since. And the episode is called don't call 13 00:00:40,320 --> 00:00:44,120 Speaker 1: it a Breakdown. It's a story that you probably haven't heard, 14 00:00:44,240 --> 00:00:47,760 Speaker 1: even if you've read a few headlines about it. It's extraordinary, 15 00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:51,720 Speaker 1: very relatable, and it's about how Julie, several years after 16 00:00:51,800 --> 00:00:54,320 Speaker 1: Master Chef and when she was apparently sort of living 17 00:00:54,360 --> 00:00:57,520 Speaker 1: the dream, running her own business, juggling a lot of 18 00:00:57,560 --> 00:01:02,000 Speaker 1: things at once, she had a full breakdown. How did 19 00:01:02,040 --> 00:01:04,880 Speaker 1: she recover, how did she rebuild? How did she discover 20 00:01:04,959 --> 00:01:07,679 Speaker 1: that she was taking care of everyone but herself? Does 21 00:01:07,720 --> 00:01:11,480 Speaker 1: that sound familiar. This is one of my favorite conversations. 22 00:01:11,560 --> 00:01:15,280 Speaker 1: Julie is warm and funny and very honest and vulnerable. 23 00:01:15,760 --> 00:01:18,160 Speaker 1: I absolutely loved it. People talk to me about it 24 00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:20,440 Speaker 1: all the time. So here it is where it all began. 25 00:01:20,920 --> 00:01:24,240 Speaker 1: Episode one of season one of Mid. Don't call it 26 00:01:24,280 --> 00:01:28,280 Speaker 1: a breakdown. You might know mid as an insult. 27 00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:30,840 Speaker 2: I guess there's no way to have a good mid 28 00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:34,440 Speaker 2: life crisis because it's gracious, an epidemic upon us of 29 00:01:34,600 --> 00:01:39,200 Speaker 2: men on the internet calling women mid means poor quality, 30 00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:41,960 Speaker 2: below average, not that attractive. 31 00:01:41,880 --> 00:01:44,680 Speaker 1: And for the longest time, that's how midlife women have 32 00:01:44,800 --> 00:01:47,000 Speaker 1: been seen and how we've been told to feel. 33 00:01:47,360 --> 00:01:49,600 Speaker 3: The thing is, though we are. 34 00:01:49,600 --> 00:01:54,240 Speaker 1: Anything, but my name is Holly Wainwright, and I am mid. 35 00:01:54,920 --> 00:01:57,960 Speaker 1: By the time you've unlocked this seriously grown up level, 36 00:01:58,240 --> 00:02:02,600 Speaker 1: you've seen some stuff, through some things, understand some stuff. 37 00:02:03,560 --> 00:02:07,840 Speaker 1: You are wise and powerful, complicated and courageous, and yet 38 00:02:07,840 --> 00:02:10,640 Speaker 1: the world is trying to trick you into believing that 39 00:02:10,720 --> 00:02:15,240 Speaker 1: you're sad and small, uninteresting and unfuckable. 40 00:02:15,960 --> 00:02:19,600 Speaker 3: Excuse me, but no, one hundred times no. 41 00:02:20,840 --> 00:02:21,480 Speaker 4: Mid is a. 42 00:02:21,480 --> 00:02:24,760 Speaker 1: Show for gen X women where we share thoughts from 43 00:02:24,760 --> 00:02:27,919 Speaker 1: midlife and have the conversations that actually matter to us. 44 00:02:28,720 --> 00:02:30,959 Speaker 3: Over the next eight episodes. 45 00:02:30,680 --> 00:02:33,200 Speaker 1: You're going to hear grown ups talking about big things 46 00:02:33,240 --> 00:02:36,480 Speaker 1: and little things and some serious, heavy shit, because there's 47 00:02:36,520 --> 00:02:39,560 Speaker 1: plenty of that in midlife, and some silly, stupid stuff too, 48 00:02:39,760 --> 00:02:43,200 Speaker 1: because we've worked out that sometimes that's exactly what we need. 49 00:02:43,919 --> 00:02:46,440 Speaker 1: We're going to be talking about our heads and our stomachs, 50 00:02:46,480 --> 00:02:48,919 Speaker 1: and our drinking, and our sex life, and our friends 51 00:02:48,919 --> 00:02:51,280 Speaker 1: and our job and our families and our divorces and 52 00:02:51,320 --> 00:02:54,480 Speaker 1: our dating and you get it, all. 53 00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:55,120 Speaker 3: The good stuff. 54 00:02:56,120 --> 00:03:00,000 Speaker 1: And today for episode one, we are talking about our heads. 55 00:03:00,880 --> 00:03:02,960 Speaker 1: One of the things about midlife is you're meant to 56 00:03:03,000 --> 00:03:05,720 Speaker 1: have all your fluffy ducks in pretty little rows. 57 00:03:06,040 --> 00:03:07,320 Speaker 3: But it's not always like that. 58 00:03:07,880 --> 00:03:11,280 Speaker 1: Sometimes because of hormones, because of perry, because of stress 59 00:03:11,320 --> 00:03:14,639 Speaker 1: and health and life, and because often we've shoved some 60 00:03:14,680 --> 00:03:17,720 Speaker 1: tricky things from our pass away in hard to reach drawers, 61 00:03:18,240 --> 00:03:21,239 Speaker 1: those ducks waddle out of line and start tumbling over 62 00:03:21,280 --> 00:03:24,919 Speaker 1: each other and running for the exits. Mental health can 63 00:03:24,960 --> 00:03:27,639 Speaker 1: sneak up on you when you're mid and that can 64 00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:30,560 Speaker 1: have serious ripple effects because often by now we've got 65 00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:32,760 Speaker 1: a lot of people depending on us. We're meant to 66 00:03:32,760 --> 00:03:35,920 Speaker 1: be that steady leaning post and suddenly we're wobbling. 67 00:03:36,840 --> 00:03:38,640 Speaker 3: And no one knows that better than the woman. 68 00:03:38,680 --> 00:03:42,560 Speaker 1: I'm having my first mid conversation with, Julie Goodwin. I 69 00:03:42,600 --> 00:03:45,360 Speaker 1: gave you a dish am. 70 00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:45,960 Speaker 2: Nine out of ten. 71 00:03:47,400 --> 00:03:49,560 Speaker 1: Well, Julie Goodwin's infectious. 72 00:03:51,240 --> 00:03:54,280 Speaker 2: Proving to be one very strong lady. Julie is now 73 00:03:54,320 --> 00:03:55,040 Speaker 2: back in the kitchen. 74 00:03:57,000 --> 00:03:58,560 Speaker 3: You know Julie, we all do. 75 00:03:58,840 --> 00:04:01,320 Speaker 1: She won the first ever seas of Australian Master Chef 76 00:04:01,600 --> 00:04:03,880 Speaker 1: aged thirty eight and became one of the most famous 77 00:04:03,880 --> 00:04:06,880 Speaker 1: people in the country. There have been cookbooks and more 78 00:04:06,920 --> 00:04:10,040 Speaker 1: TV shows and appearances all over the place. And now 79 00:04:10,160 --> 00:04:14,680 Speaker 1: there's Julie's extraordinarily good memoir. It's called Your Time Starts Now, 80 00:04:14,800 --> 00:04:17,560 Speaker 1: and in it she explains how her ducks got so 81 00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:20,680 Speaker 1: very far out of their rows that she found herself 82 00:04:20,800 --> 00:04:22,240 Speaker 1: not wanting to live anymore. 83 00:04:23,200 --> 00:04:25,160 Speaker 3: It's an extraordinary story. 84 00:04:24,920 --> 00:04:27,960 Speaker 1: But a familiar one too, because when Julie found herself 85 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:30,960 Speaker 1: doing what many of us are doing everything and falling 86 00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:33,359 Speaker 1: apart while she was doing it, she had to start 87 00:04:33,400 --> 00:04:37,160 Speaker 1: making some serious changes, which for her started with a 88 00:04:37,240 --> 00:04:41,280 Speaker 1: stint in the hospital. Please enjoy the very first mid 89 00:04:41,279 --> 00:04:45,240 Speaker 1: conversation with the brutally honest, occasionally sweary, completely wonderful. 90 00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:46,279 Speaker 3: Julie Goodwin. 91 00:04:48,279 --> 00:04:50,760 Speaker 1: Julie, I want to start by reading a few words 92 00:04:50,760 --> 00:04:54,000 Speaker 1: in your book that you actually wrote about your school friends, 93 00:04:54,279 --> 00:04:57,200 Speaker 1: because when I read it, I was like, these are 94 00:04:57,200 --> 00:04:59,880 Speaker 1: the women who are listening to mid she wrote. Now, 95 00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:02,400 Speaker 1: through the magic of social media, I catch glimpses of 96 00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:07,280 Speaker 1: their lives. We are doctors, professors, lawyers, town planners, CEOs. 97 00:05:07,640 --> 00:05:11,280 Speaker 1: We are mothers and grandmothers, daughters and lovers. We are 98 00:05:11,320 --> 00:05:15,760 Speaker 1: cancer survivors and entrepreneurs, artists and activists and travelers. We 99 00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:20,560 Speaker 1: have lost parents, partners, friends, and children. We've strived and achieved, 100 00:05:20,680 --> 00:05:24,239 Speaker 1: struggled and grieved, worked and played. We've faced the whole 101 00:05:24,279 --> 00:05:26,640 Speaker 1: spectrum of what life has to give and to take 102 00:05:26,680 --> 00:05:27,880 Speaker 1: away and prevailed. 103 00:05:28,360 --> 00:05:33,839 Speaker 3: We are fucking glorious. And I was like, that is 104 00:05:33,920 --> 00:05:36,400 Speaker 3: exactly who this show is for. 105 00:05:37,000 --> 00:05:41,960 Speaker 1: People who have seen some shit yeah and are still 106 00:05:41,960 --> 00:05:43,880 Speaker 1: here and are fucking glorious. And you are one of 107 00:05:43,880 --> 00:05:47,200 Speaker 1: those people. Julie Goodwin. So thank you, thank you so 108 00:05:47,279 --> 00:05:48,440 Speaker 1: much for writing this book. 109 00:05:48,800 --> 00:05:50,400 Speaker 4: Oh, thank you, thank you. 110 00:05:51,120 --> 00:05:51,400 Speaker 3: I was. 111 00:05:52,880 --> 00:05:54,280 Speaker 2: Hard. I bet it was. 112 00:05:54,279 --> 00:05:57,039 Speaker 1: Hard, because you've written cookbooks, right, lots of cookbooks. 113 00:05:57,120 --> 00:05:58,760 Speaker 4: Yeah, lots of cookbooks, and there are. 114 00:05:58,680 --> 00:05:59,400 Speaker 3: Recipes in here. 115 00:05:59,440 --> 00:06:01,560 Speaker 1: I want to make sure everybody knows that every chapter 116 00:06:01,640 --> 00:06:04,400 Speaker 1: has a slightly adjacent recipe. 117 00:06:04,920 --> 00:06:07,400 Speaker 2: I feel like you need a little breather being too. 118 00:06:07,440 --> 00:06:09,680 Speaker 2: Some of these chapters, it's just like, you know what, 119 00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:13,720 Speaker 2: let's talk about piplots for a minute, exactly. 120 00:06:13,880 --> 00:06:16,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, And that's real life, right some one minute we're 121 00:06:16,560 --> 00:06:18,080 Speaker 1: laying it all out. In the next minute, we're like, oh, 122 00:06:18,200 --> 00:06:21,120 Speaker 1: got to cook dinner. But I wanted to say how 123 00:06:21,240 --> 00:06:23,080 Speaker 1: I think that for a lot of women reading this, 124 00:06:23,200 --> 00:06:26,719 Speaker 1: although the details might be different of what they're going 125 00:06:26,720 --> 00:06:28,760 Speaker 1: through in midlife and what you've been through over the 126 00:06:28,760 --> 00:06:31,599 Speaker 1: past six years or so, they might not have been 127 00:06:31,600 --> 00:06:34,480 Speaker 1: on reality TV and had this massive life change at 128 00:06:34,480 --> 00:06:36,800 Speaker 1: about thirty eight is when you went on Master Chef, right, 129 00:06:37,720 --> 00:06:41,200 Speaker 1: But a lot of this would be really familiar, being busy, busy, busy, 130 00:06:41,279 --> 00:06:44,680 Speaker 1: putting everybody's needs above your own, committing yourself to work 131 00:06:44,720 --> 00:06:46,400 Speaker 1: a lot that then takes you away from the family, 132 00:06:46,440 --> 00:06:47,640 Speaker 1: and running, running, running. 133 00:06:47,960 --> 00:06:49,200 Speaker 3: Can you tell us a little. 134 00:06:48,960 --> 00:06:52,159 Speaker 1: Bit about what your life was like about six years 135 00:06:52,200 --> 00:06:54,960 Speaker 1: ago when you were still trying to do it all 136 00:06:55,000 --> 00:06:56,000 Speaker 1: in inverted commons? 137 00:06:56,040 --> 00:06:56,360 Speaker 4: Sure? 138 00:06:56,560 --> 00:07:00,640 Speaker 2: I'd never been very good at setting boundaries, so you know, 139 00:07:01,000 --> 00:07:03,480 Speaker 2: and I know that's relatable. I know because a lot 140 00:07:03,520 --> 00:07:06,039 Speaker 2: of my friends are the same. Basically off the back 141 00:07:06,080 --> 00:07:09,320 Speaker 2: of Master Chef that's fifteen years ago. I just was 142 00:07:09,480 --> 00:07:12,120 Speaker 2: frightened that if I didn't take all the opportunities they 143 00:07:12,120 --> 00:07:14,680 Speaker 2: would sort of disappear and that, you know, And I 144 00:07:14,720 --> 00:07:18,360 Speaker 2: even had someone say to me as the second season 145 00:07:18,440 --> 00:07:20,960 Speaker 2: started to go to air, well done, You've had a 146 00:07:20,960 --> 00:07:25,119 Speaker 2: good run, sort of like the years up. Your crown 147 00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:27,000 Speaker 2: is going to be passed on to somebody else. And 148 00:07:27,280 --> 00:07:30,000 Speaker 2: so I had this anxiety that the opportunities that had 149 00:07:30,040 --> 00:07:32,480 Speaker 2: come my way were going to evaporate. So I had 150 00:07:32,480 --> 00:07:33,960 Speaker 2: to take everything that came along. 151 00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:38,120 Speaker 1: That first season of Master Chef was so huge. You know, 152 00:07:38,240 --> 00:07:40,520 Speaker 1: you were one of the most famous people in the 153 00:07:40,520 --> 00:07:43,800 Speaker 1: country for a period of time, no question. So that 154 00:07:43,840 --> 00:07:48,040 Speaker 1: completely changed your life. So then there was this pressure yeah. 155 00:07:48,080 --> 00:07:52,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, and lots of expectations and you know that good 156 00:07:52,000 --> 00:07:54,520 Speaker 2: old imposter syndrome and all of that. So I kind 157 00:07:54,560 --> 00:07:56,680 Speaker 2: of had to learn a lot of stuff as I 158 00:07:56,720 --> 00:07:57,600 Speaker 2: went along as well. 159 00:07:58,160 --> 00:08:00,840 Speaker 4: And about eight or nine. 160 00:08:00,760 --> 00:08:03,200 Speaker 2: Years ago, I just sort of thought, I've got to 161 00:08:03,240 --> 00:08:06,200 Speaker 2: get off this treadmill, and I was very much in 162 00:08:06,240 --> 00:08:09,440 Speaker 2: the wind, as in, if a food festival wanted me, 163 00:08:09,720 --> 00:08:11,840 Speaker 2: then I had a job. If they wanted somebody else, 164 00:08:11,880 --> 00:08:14,480 Speaker 2: I didn't have a job, you know. And so I 165 00:08:14,520 --> 00:08:16,920 Speaker 2: felt really at the mercy of the ebbs and flows 166 00:08:16,960 --> 00:08:20,400 Speaker 2: of the food industry and the exhibition industry and all 167 00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:22,440 Speaker 2: of that sort of stuff. So I thought I need 168 00:08:22,480 --> 00:08:25,400 Speaker 2: to take the rains a little bit, and so I 169 00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:26,920 Speaker 2: opened my cooking school. 170 00:08:26,920 --> 00:08:27,960 Speaker 4: So I opened my own business. 171 00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:32,000 Speaker 2: And I'd already run a business with my husband for years. 172 00:08:31,880 --> 00:08:34,240 Speaker 3: You know, business, Yeah, that's right, build it. 173 00:08:34,280 --> 00:08:36,320 Speaker 1: And it was at a point of quite you know, 174 00:08:36,400 --> 00:08:39,320 Speaker 1: solid success and everything when you went off to do masters. 175 00:08:39,360 --> 00:08:42,240 Speaker 2: Yet absolutely, so I thought I'll do something that I 176 00:08:42,280 --> 00:08:44,280 Speaker 2: love to do, and so I opened this cooking school. 177 00:08:44,320 --> 00:08:46,680 Speaker 2: And that was such a labor of love and it 178 00:08:46,720 --> 00:08:49,520 Speaker 2: was such a beautiful space and we had some amazing 179 00:08:49,559 --> 00:08:52,480 Speaker 2: times there. But it is a small business, and anyone 180 00:08:52,520 --> 00:08:55,840 Speaker 2: who's run a small business knows it becomes like a 181 00:08:55,880 --> 00:08:58,679 Speaker 2: toddler and it needs all your attention and it takes 182 00:08:58,679 --> 00:09:01,960 Speaker 2: all your energy and turn it back on it all 183 00:09:01,960 --> 00:09:06,120 Speaker 2: the time you do. And not long after that opened, 184 00:09:06,120 --> 00:09:08,000 Speaker 2: I was offered a job on the radio, and I 185 00:09:08,040 --> 00:09:10,000 Speaker 2: guess I must have still had that sort of fomo 186 00:09:10,120 --> 00:09:13,440 Speaker 2: going on because I just really loved the idea of 187 00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:15,680 Speaker 2: doing the radio, and I gee, I loved that job. 188 00:09:15,760 --> 00:09:20,640 Speaker 2: I loved it. But I guess the breakfast radio too. Yep, 189 00:09:20,679 --> 00:09:23,520 Speaker 2: four am, milarm, And then it doesn't end at nine. 190 00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:25,600 Speaker 2: When you go off, You've got to go meet clients, 191 00:09:25,640 --> 00:09:29,160 Speaker 2: you've got to film content's podcasting, There's all sorts of stuff. 192 00:09:29,559 --> 00:09:32,360 Speaker 2: This is how I calmed my life down by adding all. 193 00:09:32,280 --> 00:09:35,720 Speaker 4: This stuff into it. Yeah, well it did, it did. 194 00:09:35,760 --> 00:09:38,240 Speaker 2: I was still writing for the Weekly and doing a 195 00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:40,920 Speaker 2: whole lot of other things as well. So what ended 196 00:09:40,960 --> 00:09:43,560 Speaker 2: up happening was, instead of having more time for my 197 00:09:43,600 --> 00:09:47,320 Speaker 2: family and being more available to the people I love, 198 00:09:47,880 --> 00:09:49,040 Speaker 2: I just wasn't there at all. 199 00:09:49,280 --> 00:09:50,000 Speaker 4: I wasn't there at all. 200 00:09:50,280 --> 00:09:53,280 Speaker 2: I was less available to my family than when I 201 00:09:53,320 --> 00:09:56,319 Speaker 2: was traveling all over the place because I was getting 202 00:09:56,360 --> 00:09:58,280 Speaker 2: up at four in the morning, and when you get 203 00:09:58,320 --> 00:09:59,600 Speaker 2: up at four in the morning, you've got to go 204 00:09:59,640 --> 00:10:01,760 Speaker 2: to bed like eight o'clock at night. So not only 205 00:10:01,880 --> 00:10:04,560 Speaker 2: was I losing my mornings seeing my people, I was 206 00:10:04,559 --> 00:10:08,640 Speaker 2: losing that beautiful space after dinner where everyone collectively exhales. 207 00:10:09,160 --> 00:10:11,320 Speaker 2: I was losing that as well, because I had to 208 00:10:11,320 --> 00:10:13,400 Speaker 2: go to bed at night, and then on the weekends 209 00:10:13,559 --> 00:10:17,080 Speaker 2: I had cooking classes, so I was literally working seven 210 00:10:17,160 --> 00:10:19,560 Speaker 2: days a week and long days at that, and sometimes 211 00:10:19,600 --> 00:10:22,280 Speaker 2: there were weeknight classes at the kitchen, which then means. 212 00:10:22,040 --> 00:10:23,199 Speaker 4: I wasn't getting enough sleep. 213 00:10:23,240 --> 00:10:25,520 Speaker 2: And it was just a recipe for disaster, you know, 214 00:10:26,280 --> 00:10:28,720 Speaker 2: and then of course just a whole bunch of processed 215 00:10:29,040 --> 00:10:32,439 Speaker 2: stuff from the past and some you know, there's some 216 00:10:32,760 --> 00:10:35,520 Speaker 2: brain wiring I suppose it was already in existence that 217 00:10:36,040 --> 00:10:37,959 Speaker 2: made that all really treacherous. 218 00:10:38,200 --> 00:10:40,280 Speaker 1: You say in the book that you had this sort 219 00:10:40,280 --> 00:10:43,480 Speaker 1: of calendar mapped out after Master Chef, and then up 220 00:10:43,520 --> 00:10:45,240 Speaker 1: to this point, this calendar mapped out that was kind 221 00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:46,960 Speaker 1: of color coded of like this is work time, this 222 00:10:47,000 --> 00:10:48,800 Speaker 1: is family time, this is this, this is this, But 223 00:10:48,840 --> 00:10:50,720 Speaker 1: there was no time for you on that right, which 224 00:10:50,760 --> 00:10:52,520 Speaker 1: I think is something that a lot of women will 225 00:10:52,679 --> 00:10:56,280 Speaker 1: very much, very much recognize. And then you also say, 226 00:10:56,320 --> 00:10:59,199 Speaker 1: which is another very relatable point, at one point you realized, 227 00:10:59,840 --> 00:11:02,199 Speaker 1: I'm really wobbly. I know some of the things I've 228 00:11:02,200 --> 00:11:04,200 Speaker 1: got to do for my mental health, like exercise, so 229 00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:06,800 Speaker 1: I'm going to set my alarm for three am so 230 00:11:06,840 --> 00:11:08,439 Speaker 1: that I can get up and go to the gym 231 00:11:08,480 --> 00:11:09,439 Speaker 1: before work. 232 00:11:09,679 --> 00:11:14,520 Speaker 2: Yep, Like, yeah, it's like it is insane, right, that's insane, 233 00:11:14,520 --> 00:11:15,439 Speaker 2: But it's the. 234 00:11:15,360 --> 00:11:19,120 Speaker 1: Way we think because we we go it's my fault 235 00:11:19,120 --> 00:11:21,200 Speaker 1: that I'm not coping. I've got to do more things 236 00:11:21,240 --> 00:11:23,520 Speaker 1: to be coping. And you, right, you're running, running, running, 237 00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:26,200 Speaker 1: And then when you'd be alone, you just felt hollow. 238 00:11:26,920 --> 00:11:31,200 Speaker 2: Absolutely, there was nothing left, literally to the point where 239 00:11:31,400 --> 00:11:34,560 Speaker 2: I actually I couldn't make my face do what it 240 00:11:34,559 --> 00:11:36,960 Speaker 2: needed to do, you know, to even look normal. So 241 00:11:37,080 --> 00:11:40,960 Speaker 2: sometimes I would just go away and find somewhere to 242 00:11:40,960 --> 00:11:43,360 Speaker 2: be by myself because the muscles of my face are 243 00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:46,680 Speaker 2: exhausted from trying to hold just an interested look on 244 00:11:46,720 --> 00:11:49,400 Speaker 2: my face or a smile or a just a I'm 245 00:11:49,400 --> 00:11:50,800 Speaker 2: a person who's coping face. 246 00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:52,280 Speaker 4: Because I wasn't coping, you. 247 00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:53,160 Speaker 3: Felt like a husk. 248 00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:57,240 Speaker 1: So what happens then when you realize that this life 249 00:11:57,280 --> 00:12:01,439 Speaker 1: you've built is untenable and you are wobbling. What happens 250 00:12:01,880 --> 00:12:05,600 Speaker 1: if you really just need to fall apart. We're going 251 00:12:05,679 --> 00:12:21,240 Speaker 1: to talk about that after this break. All of the 252 00:12:21,280 --> 00:12:23,480 Speaker 1: stuff about your early life is fascinating too. You've had 253 00:12:23,480 --> 00:12:25,880 Speaker 1: a very interesting life, Julie, You've done a lot of 254 00:12:25,880 --> 00:12:26,640 Speaker 1: different jobs. 255 00:12:26,920 --> 00:12:29,280 Speaker 2: I have done a lot of different You're in there about. 256 00:12:29,120 --> 00:12:32,320 Speaker 1: When you were basically almost like a prison guard in 257 00:12:32,400 --> 00:12:36,280 Speaker 1: a used attention center and dealing with these awful men. 258 00:12:36,600 --> 00:12:38,520 Speaker 3: Yea, not the children, but the other guard. 259 00:12:38,640 --> 00:12:41,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, not the inmates that my coworkers. 260 00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:41,400 Speaker 4: Yeah. 261 00:12:41,400 --> 00:12:43,480 Speaker 2: I was the only female there and that was an 262 00:12:43,520 --> 00:12:44,400 Speaker 2: extraordinary time. 263 00:12:44,600 --> 00:12:46,560 Speaker 1: You certainly have a strong work ethic, and I've done 264 00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:49,800 Speaker 1: a lot of things. But you write about there was 265 00:12:49,840 --> 00:12:51,960 Speaker 1: a time in your late teens when your mental health 266 00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:54,600 Speaker 1: is in trouble, but you put it in a box. Yep, 267 00:12:54,679 --> 00:12:57,160 Speaker 1: you wrote that that was most likely the result of 268 00:12:57,440 --> 00:12:59,880 Speaker 1: abuse that you've written about in here, just very top 269 00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:02,560 Speaker 1: we're not going into it, As you write very beautiful 270 00:13:02,559 --> 00:13:04,120 Speaker 1: in the book, You're like, this is what's happened, We're 271 00:13:04,120 --> 00:13:06,560 Speaker 1: not going into it. And then you put that away 272 00:13:06,559 --> 00:13:08,480 Speaker 1: in a box when you're like teens. And then when 273 00:13:08,559 --> 00:13:11,640 Speaker 1: you had your first baby, I think it was your 274 00:13:11,640 --> 00:13:14,160 Speaker 1: first baby, and you were struggling, and you went to 275 00:13:14,200 --> 00:13:17,560 Speaker 1: tresillian and which is a center that helps mothers who 276 00:13:17,559 --> 00:13:19,960 Speaker 1: a struggling with sleepless babies or collique babies. 277 00:13:20,160 --> 00:13:20,880 Speaker 3: They got you to. 278 00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:22,920 Speaker 1: Fill out one of those questionnaires, and I'm sure would 279 00:13:22,920 --> 00:13:25,640 Speaker 1: be very familiar to a lot of our listeners about whether. 280 00:13:25,520 --> 00:13:27,640 Speaker 3: Or not you might be struggling with postnatal depression. 281 00:13:27,800 --> 00:13:29,720 Speaker 1: Yes, and I just want to read out this bit 282 00:13:29,760 --> 00:13:31,520 Speaker 1: that you wrote because they got you to fill out 283 00:13:31,559 --> 00:13:32,280 Speaker 1: this questionnaire. 284 00:13:32,280 --> 00:13:33,360 Speaker 3: So this is all the way back there. 285 00:13:33,360 --> 00:13:34,920 Speaker 1: But I'm just kind of painting a picture of how 286 00:13:34,960 --> 00:13:38,400 Speaker 1: you're such a copra and pushing things down. They're like, 287 00:13:38,600 --> 00:13:40,800 Speaker 1: I think, make Maria, I have got personatal depression, and 288 00:13:40,840 --> 00:13:43,360 Speaker 1: you said, let me stop you there. I don't want 289 00:13:43,400 --> 00:13:45,319 Speaker 1: to hear the word depression. I don't have a thing 290 00:13:45,400 --> 00:13:47,840 Speaker 1: to be depressed about. I have a beautiful husband and 291 00:13:47,880 --> 00:13:50,120 Speaker 1: a healthy baby and a house to live in. It 292 00:13:50,160 --> 00:13:52,880 Speaker 1: would be ridiculous for me to be depressed. Give me 293 00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:53,959 Speaker 1: the questions a game. 294 00:13:57,000 --> 00:13:58,200 Speaker 3: I wanted to pass the test. 295 00:13:58,840 --> 00:14:02,199 Speaker 1: And this is echoed later too, when you do go 296 00:14:02,280 --> 00:14:05,080 Speaker 1: to another healthcare professional at one point, but you say, 297 00:14:05,720 --> 00:14:07,720 Speaker 1: don't diagnose any depression and I don't want to talk 298 00:14:07,720 --> 00:14:08,480 Speaker 1: about my childhood. 299 00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:09,719 Speaker 3: Where do you think? 300 00:14:09,760 --> 00:14:13,560 Speaker 1: Because I think that this sort of denial, or rather 301 00:14:13,640 --> 00:14:18,560 Speaker 1: this insistence on gratitude can actually be quite toxic for 302 00:14:18,600 --> 00:14:22,120 Speaker 1: women sometimes. Where did that come from and how have 303 00:14:22,200 --> 00:14:23,400 Speaker 1: you learned to understand that? 304 00:14:23,400 --> 00:14:25,520 Speaker 3: That kind of like, my life's great? What are you 305 00:14:25,560 --> 00:14:26,040 Speaker 3: talking about? 306 00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:30,120 Speaker 1: You know, especially I imagine postmaster chef when you've been 307 00:14:30,200 --> 00:14:31,440 Speaker 1: handed the keys to the city. 308 00:14:31,520 --> 00:14:35,320 Speaker 2: Kind of Yeah, it comes from everywhere, It comes from everywhere. 309 00:14:35,360 --> 00:14:38,400 Speaker 2: So it certainly came from family. 310 00:14:38,560 --> 00:14:40,960 Speaker 4: You know. My men grew up during the war. 311 00:14:41,440 --> 00:14:44,400 Speaker 2: My mum was raised by my men, and rightly so 312 00:14:45,320 --> 00:14:48,640 Speaker 2: we're taught to be grateful and to countter blessings and 313 00:14:49,160 --> 00:14:51,040 Speaker 2: to see how lucky we are compared to how other 314 00:14:51,080 --> 00:14:53,920 Speaker 2: people are. The problem is that if you take that 315 00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:57,160 Speaker 2: on board so much, like I know nothing by halves, 316 00:14:57,800 --> 00:15:00,680 Speaker 2: it can become really crippling when it comes time to 317 00:15:00,720 --> 00:15:04,280 Speaker 2: actually say I'm not coping because. 318 00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:08,040 Speaker 4: What right do I have? And I'll tell you what. 319 00:15:08,280 --> 00:15:11,520 Speaker 2: Society, the Internet, Facebook, they all join in on that. 320 00:15:11,520 --> 00:15:15,120 Speaker 4: That's all a pylon. If you say anything is. 321 00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:17,840 Speaker 2: Not right, people are like, oh, first world problems, and 322 00:15:17,920 --> 00:15:20,200 Speaker 2: how can you complain about that when this just happened 323 00:15:20,240 --> 00:15:23,280 Speaker 2: over here? And how can you complain about that when 324 00:15:23,320 --> 00:15:25,480 Speaker 2: you've got food on your table and you know you 325 00:15:25,480 --> 00:15:27,720 Speaker 2: can afford a phone to even be writing this on it, 326 00:15:27,920 --> 00:15:29,840 Speaker 2: you know what I mean? So there's that whole idea 327 00:15:29,840 --> 00:15:34,120 Speaker 2: that we should be grateful always and when you're not, 328 00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:37,360 Speaker 2: you should be shamed of yourself. Yeah, and you should 329 00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:39,440 Speaker 2: take a good hard look at yourself, and you should 330 00:15:39,520 --> 00:15:41,400 Speaker 2: have a cup of concrete, get up and keep going 331 00:15:41,440 --> 00:15:46,080 Speaker 2: because you live in this magnificent country and you are 332 00:15:46,120 --> 00:15:48,320 Speaker 2: lucky enough to have people around you, and you're lucky enough. 333 00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:48,720 Speaker 4: To have a listen. 334 00:15:48,840 --> 00:15:51,280 Speaker 2: And that is all true, and it's all valid, and 335 00:15:51,280 --> 00:15:53,920 Speaker 2: it's all important to acknowledge. But we have to take 336 00:15:53,920 --> 00:15:57,520 Speaker 2: the shame out of saying I can't do this. I'm 337 00:15:57,560 --> 00:16:00,200 Speaker 2: not coping. Please don't ask me to put I was 338 00:16:00,200 --> 00:16:03,560 Speaker 2: seeing on my plate right now. I'm too busy, I'm 339 00:16:03,640 --> 00:16:07,440 Speaker 2: feeling sad. I can't make my face into an appropriate 340 00:16:07,480 --> 00:16:11,120 Speaker 2: expression anymore. You know, I feel like I want to die. 341 00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:14,480 Speaker 2: We have to be allowed to say these things out 342 00:16:14,520 --> 00:16:17,120 Speaker 2: loud without being made to feel ashamed about it. 343 00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:20,600 Speaker 1: So there is the moment where you walk away from 344 00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:22,200 Speaker 1: a football game you're supposed to be going to with 345 00:16:22,280 --> 00:16:25,320 Speaker 1: me after this period of time where you're just feeling, 346 00:16:25,840 --> 00:16:28,400 Speaker 1: as you say, hollow inside. Every time you're alone, you cry, 347 00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:31,600 Speaker 1: but the rest of the time you're being mum, being 348 00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:35,560 Speaker 1: good employee, being wife, being friend, And I wanted to 349 00:16:35,640 --> 00:16:38,480 Speaker 1: ask you because you have spoken a bit about this, 350 00:16:38,560 --> 00:16:40,600 Speaker 1: so I don't want you to relive the moment entirely. 351 00:16:40,640 --> 00:16:44,840 Speaker 1: But you were seriously considering taking your life, and then 352 00:16:44,920 --> 00:16:47,960 Speaker 1: you met sitting by some water on the Central coast 353 00:16:47,960 --> 00:16:50,320 Speaker 1: where you live. You met Larissa, Derek and Bonnie yep, 354 00:16:50,680 --> 00:16:52,960 Speaker 1: who you thank in your book. Who are the strangers 355 00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:56,680 Speaker 1: who spoke to you and very likely saved you that day? Yes, 356 00:16:57,040 --> 00:16:59,720 Speaker 1: what I wanted to ask you, rather than about the 357 00:16:59,760 --> 00:17:02,440 Speaker 1: debt of that, was about how you found the hope 358 00:17:02,440 --> 00:17:06,320 Speaker 1: in that moment to go home to your It has 359 00:17:06,359 --> 00:17:09,000 Speaker 1: to be said, amazing husband. No, I don't say that. 360 00:17:09,040 --> 00:17:11,040 Speaker 1: It's like, oh, you look like you know you deserve 361 00:17:11,080 --> 00:17:14,240 Speaker 1: an amazing husband. But how did you find the hope 362 00:17:14,480 --> 00:17:17,720 Speaker 1: to go home and finally say to him I'm not coping. 363 00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:21,600 Speaker 2: It was an incredible couple of hours, you know, And 364 00:17:23,359 --> 00:17:27,000 Speaker 2: it wasn't a blinding flash. It was simply that these 365 00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:33,359 Speaker 2: strangers sat next to me and chatted about ordinary things. 366 00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:35,440 Speaker 3: A young couple and their dog, right. 367 00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:37,400 Speaker 2: Yep, young couple and their dog, and they just said, 368 00:17:37,480 --> 00:17:40,320 Speaker 2: you look like you needed company, So we decided to 369 00:17:40,359 --> 00:17:43,199 Speaker 2: come back and have a seat here, and we're just 370 00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:46,160 Speaker 2: going to hang here. They just chatted to me and 371 00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:48,640 Speaker 2: they told me about their kids and about their dog, 372 00:17:48,680 --> 00:17:51,359 Speaker 2: and I told them about my kids and about my dogs, 373 00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:59,439 Speaker 2: and just that ridiculously ordinary stuff. And I found in 374 00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:01,359 Speaker 2: the telling of a few of these things, and in 375 00:18:01,359 --> 00:18:03,359 Speaker 2: the hearing of a few of these things, I laughed 376 00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:06,639 Speaker 2: a couple of times, And at the end of that 377 00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:09,199 Speaker 2: couple of hours, it was like, I can laugh. 378 00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:12,680 Speaker 4: I didn't know. I didn't know that was still in there, 379 00:18:12,720 --> 00:18:12,919 Speaker 4: you know. 380 00:18:13,800 --> 00:18:16,919 Speaker 2: And so then I rang Mick and I had him 381 00:18:16,960 --> 00:18:19,359 Speaker 2: come and pick me up, and that's when I told 382 00:18:19,440 --> 00:18:23,919 Speaker 2: him where I'd been and what I've been doing, and 383 00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:25,960 Speaker 2: he drove me to the hospital. 384 00:18:26,800 --> 00:18:29,800 Speaker 1: I thought he said something really amazing, because a lot 385 00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:31,720 Speaker 1: of men, well not only a lot of men, but 386 00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:33,639 Speaker 1: a lot of people, would be like, we'll fix this, 387 00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:37,320 Speaker 1: but he kind of deeply understood that he couldn't fix this. 388 00:18:37,720 --> 00:18:41,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, it is a knee jerk reaction to be the 389 00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:43,760 Speaker 2: night in Shining Armor, but that's what he needed to 390 00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:45,840 Speaker 2: do to be my night in shining armor on that day, 391 00:18:46,640 --> 00:18:50,880 Speaker 2: not to say, you know, well, you're all right. 392 00:18:50,720 --> 00:18:52,679 Speaker 4: Now, let's go and have ice cream. 393 00:18:52,760 --> 00:18:55,880 Speaker 2: You know, it was I am not equipped to deal 394 00:18:55,960 --> 00:18:56,960 Speaker 2: with what you're going through. 395 00:18:57,000 --> 00:18:59,800 Speaker 4: I need to call in somebody who is. And I 396 00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:03,000 Speaker 4: didn't want to go to the hospital. Come on, I'm tired, 397 00:19:03,080 --> 00:19:05,119 Speaker 4: it's going to be day. Can we go home? But 398 00:19:05,240 --> 00:19:06,640 Speaker 4: he wouldn't. He wouldn't take me home. 399 00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:09,919 Speaker 2: So that and that's that was the start of, you know, 400 00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:11,520 Speaker 2: trying to sort it all out. 401 00:19:13,040 --> 00:19:16,600 Speaker 1: You publish excerpts from your journal of when you're in 402 00:19:16,600 --> 00:19:18,760 Speaker 1: that first hospital that you're in, because you end up 403 00:19:18,760 --> 00:19:19,840 Speaker 1: being there for about six weeks. 404 00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:21,480 Speaker 3: You're writing in your Jill. I just have to say, 405 00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:22,080 Speaker 3: as a point of. 406 00:19:22,119 --> 00:19:25,880 Speaker 1: Levity that what I particularly enjoyed about your journal entries, 407 00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:28,080 Speaker 1: which are heart wrenching in many ways, is you always 408 00:19:28,080 --> 00:19:29,040 Speaker 1: comment on what you're eating. 409 00:19:30,040 --> 00:19:32,920 Speaker 4: So we're always. 410 00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:37,919 Speaker 1: We're in a psychiatric hospital, but it's like cold toast 411 00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:40,359 Speaker 1: and beans, turkey. 412 00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:44,360 Speaker 2: And mash ye yep, feel like the recipes in the book. 413 00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:45,520 Speaker 4: You just got to punch right things. 414 00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:50,200 Speaker 3: And comes every day every day. 415 00:19:50,240 --> 00:19:52,720 Speaker 1: He comes every day and sits with you, which it 416 00:19:52,800 --> 00:19:55,439 Speaker 1: must have been confronting for him because I assume that 417 00:19:56,080 --> 00:19:57,800 Speaker 1: you hadn't been in a place like that before. 418 00:19:58,119 --> 00:20:03,200 Speaker 2: No, never, never, he he wasn't confronted. He's just so steady. 419 00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:06,080 Speaker 2: And I would say to him, please, don't come every day, 420 00:20:06,080 --> 00:20:08,480 Speaker 2: it's too much. And so he'd be getting home quite 421 00:20:08,560 --> 00:20:10,480 Speaker 2: late at night, having his dinner quite late at night. 422 00:20:10,520 --> 00:20:12,159 Speaker 2: But he just said, I'm not doing it for you, 423 00:20:12,200 --> 00:20:15,280 Speaker 2: I'm doing it for me, and he'd come. And by 424 00:20:15,320 --> 00:20:16,720 Speaker 2: the time I was ready to sort of go and 425 00:20:16,760 --> 00:20:18,600 Speaker 2: sit in the dining room with everybody else, he'd come 426 00:20:18,600 --> 00:20:20,520 Speaker 2: and sit in the dining room too, and you know, 427 00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:23,320 Speaker 2: just shoot the breeze with everybody. That's just who he is. 428 00:20:23,359 --> 00:20:25,240 Speaker 2: He's just a beautiful human being. 429 00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:29,040 Speaker 1: That definitely comes across one of the excerpts from These 430 00:20:29,119 --> 00:20:33,159 Speaker 1: Early Days, You did right. I want to be strong again, 431 00:20:33,240 --> 00:20:35,800 Speaker 1: and I'm here to achieve that. I'm taking this time 432 00:20:35,840 --> 00:20:37,719 Speaker 1: away from my work and life so that I can 433 00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:40,480 Speaker 1: see a bright and happy future. I'm looking for different 434 00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:42,440 Speaker 1: strategies for coping, and i want to be the best 435 00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:45,520 Speaker 1: version of myself to those who love me. What I 436 00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:48,760 Speaker 1: really like about this book is there's this period and 437 00:20:48,800 --> 00:20:50,760 Speaker 1: then you come out and you do other things, and 438 00:20:50,800 --> 00:20:53,159 Speaker 1: then there's another period where you go back in, and 439 00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:55,560 Speaker 1: then you go to a rehab facility for a while. 440 00:20:56,440 --> 00:20:57,280 Speaker 3: It's not linear. 441 00:20:58,080 --> 00:21:00,480 Speaker 1: But when you read those words, now, do you feel 442 00:21:00,520 --> 00:21:02,280 Speaker 1: like that is what you've got? 443 00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:06,880 Speaker 4: Yeah, like it's still not linear, the whole process. 444 00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:09,159 Speaker 2: And this is you know, this is why this book 445 00:21:09,320 --> 00:21:13,760 Speaker 2: goes It's just truthful. So there's no tying things up 446 00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:17,040 Speaker 2: with a bow. Still not still today. It goes up 447 00:21:17,040 --> 00:21:19,840 Speaker 2: and down, and it goes around around, and you go backwards, 448 00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:22,439 Speaker 2: and there's all sorts of stuff. What I am today 449 00:21:22,520 --> 00:21:25,439 Speaker 2: is so much, it's such a better place than I was, 450 00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:30,960 Speaker 2: but there's still still things come up. And I'm so fortunate. 451 00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:35,440 Speaker 2: And you know, if you've read about Heather, my beautiful therapist, 452 00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:39,760 Speaker 2: only last week, I saw her and I said to her, 453 00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:42,240 Speaker 2: I've had a couple of really sad days, and it's 454 00:21:42,359 --> 00:21:47,480 Speaker 2: pissing me off because I'm doing all the things. I'm exercising, 455 00:21:47,760 --> 00:21:50,640 Speaker 2: i haven't been this fit in a while. I'm eating right, 456 00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:53,880 Speaker 2: I don't drink it all anymore, I'm meditating, I'm doing 457 00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:56,640 Speaker 2: all the things. Why I've got the face thing going 458 00:21:56,680 --> 00:21:58,600 Speaker 2: on where I have to work to put the smile on, 459 00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:01,040 Speaker 2: and why do I feel sad and I feel like crying? 460 00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:03,920 Speaker 2: And she put it to me beautifully, she said, look, 461 00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:07,800 Speaker 2: sometimes it's appropriate to be sad, and sometimes it's appropriate 462 00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:10,639 Speaker 2: to be stressed and have anxiety, because that's your brain 463 00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:13,639 Speaker 2: responding to your environment. And you've got to look at 464 00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:16,360 Speaker 2: those things and say, is there a reason for it? 465 00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:18,480 Speaker 2: And sometimes it's not a reason for it, and that's 466 00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:22,280 Speaker 2: your chemistry. And she said, but what you need to 467 00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:25,880 Speaker 2: do is understand that these are hotels that you check 468 00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:28,720 Speaker 2: into for a little while and then you check. 469 00:22:28,520 --> 00:22:29,480 Speaker 4: Out and you go home. 470 00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:35,520 Speaker 2: So sometimes I'm allowed to check into the sad hotel, 471 00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:38,919 Speaker 2: but I know I'm just a visitor, and I get 472 00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:41,280 Speaker 2: to go home after that. I get to go home 473 00:22:41,359 --> 00:22:43,560 Speaker 2: to my family. I'll get to go home to the 474 00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:45,640 Speaker 2: things that bring me joy. I get to go home 475 00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:50,280 Speaker 2: to a life that is it's miraculous to me. 476 00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:53,400 Speaker 1: So you've put your hand up, You've said I'm not coping. 477 00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:56,920 Speaker 1: You might have got help. But what happens next? Because 478 00:22:56,960 --> 00:22:59,800 Speaker 1: the world just doesn't stop turning right. You still need 479 00:22:59,840 --> 00:23:02,400 Speaker 1: to money, we all still need to do all those things, 480 00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:06,680 Speaker 1: keep everything on the tracks. So can you really take 481 00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:08,760 Speaker 1: a step back from your life and what happens if 482 00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:09,000 Speaker 1: you do? 483 00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:11,000 Speaker 3: That's coming up next. 484 00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:28,080 Speaker 1: It's amazing that you've just talked about the things that 485 00:23:28,119 --> 00:23:30,000 Speaker 1: you do, because I wonder if a lot of women 486 00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:32,960 Speaker 1: who are listening to this, who are maybe not as 487 00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:35,719 Speaker 1: far down this path as you, but a feeling really 488 00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:39,800 Speaker 1: like there's something wrong if they're thinking about life. 489 00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:40,920 Speaker 3: On the other side. 490 00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:43,960 Speaker 1: And as you say, it's not really another side, but 491 00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:46,359 Speaker 1: it's like a suite of things that you that you 492 00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:47,560 Speaker 1: know you can pull on. 493 00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:52,480 Speaker 2: Right one hundred percent. And it can sound overwhelming when 494 00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:54,400 Speaker 2: you list it all like that, But what I would 495 00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:57,320 Speaker 2: say to anyone who's struggling is the number one thing 496 00:23:57,520 --> 00:24:01,320 Speaker 2: is to speak. Okay, just say it, And the number 497 00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:05,320 Speaker 2: two thing is to get enough sleep and do whatever 498 00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:09,040 Speaker 2: you need to do to say the words I need 499 00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:11,719 Speaker 2: a hand or I'm not managing, and do whatever you 500 00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:13,480 Speaker 2: need to do to get out out of sleep at night, 501 00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:18,399 Speaker 2: because once you've spoken, and once you're getting enough sleep, 502 00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:21,600 Speaker 2: everything else seems slightly more possible. And I don't mean 503 00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:22,600 Speaker 2: that to sound flippant. 504 00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:24,760 Speaker 4: It is important. It's important. 505 00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:29,360 Speaker 2: It's when you're tired, when you're exhausted, there is no 506 00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:32,360 Speaker 2: resource within you to deal with anything else at all. 507 00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:34,520 Speaker 4: So that's just got to be sorted out. 508 00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:37,400 Speaker 2: And there's a bunch of things that you can look 509 00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:39,199 Speaker 2: up on how to you know, for people well I 510 00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:41,399 Speaker 2: just don't sleep well. There's a bunch of things to 511 00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:43,240 Speaker 2: help you to sleep well. There's a bunch of things 512 00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:44,840 Speaker 2: you have to do, and some of them are hard. 513 00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:45,439 Speaker 3: You know. 514 00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:48,320 Speaker 2: Set a bedtime, make sure you clock an in eight 515 00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:50,919 Speaker 2: hours every night, have a routine, have a ritual. 516 00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:52,840 Speaker 4: I love my bedtime ritual now. You know. 517 00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:55,840 Speaker 2: It used to be drink wine till your brain stops 518 00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:58,120 Speaker 2: working and then pass out in. 519 00:24:58,080 --> 00:24:58,720 Speaker 4: The bed, you know. 520 00:24:59,119 --> 00:25:02,320 Speaker 2: But now I put on a little steamy, smelly thing 521 00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:04,760 Speaker 2: and I take my pills that I have to take, 522 00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:08,280 Speaker 2: and I you know, I put on cream and we're 523 00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:10,120 Speaker 2: pulling the sheets up to my chin at night. It's 524 00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:11,919 Speaker 2: just such a moment of bliss for me. And I 525 00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:13,160 Speaker 2: get to do it every day. 526 00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:13,879 Speaker 4: It's great. 527 00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:17,000 Speaker 2: So yeah, I would just say, don't look at this 528 00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:19,439 Speaker 2: laundry list, and it's all stuff we know anyway. We 529 00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:22,080 Speaker 2: all know about nutrition, we all know about exercise. But 530 00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:24,880 Speaker 2: it's actually and it's really annoying because you don't want 531 00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:26,720 Speaker 2: to do those things and it's hard to do them 532 00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:28,159 Speaker 2: all the time. But I'll tell you what else is 533 00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:31,879 Speaker 2: hard is losing the will to live. It's you know, 534 00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:32,800 Speaker 2: choose your heart. 535 00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:36,639 Speaker 1: So when you look at the Jewelie who was running like, 536 00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:39,440 Speaker 1: as you say, running on empty, do it. Because again 537 00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:41,080 Speaker 1: I think there a lot of women listening to this, 538 00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:43,399 Speaker 1: you think I need to drop some things too. But 539 00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:45,760 Speaker 1: I can't drop them because I've got all these responsibilities. 540 00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:48,000 Speaker 1: The family need me, and the perfect dinners need to 541 00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:50,200 Speaker 1: be cooked in and I've got, you know, I've got 542 00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:52,040 Speaker 1: to have this job and that job. And one of 543 00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:55,639 Speaker 1: the things I really love about your story is because 544 00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:58,600 Speaker 1: it was audacious, really to be thirty eight and living 545 00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:01,120 Speaker 1: on the Central Coast and have built this amazing life 546 00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:03,920 Speaker 1: and go, you know what, I want to go and chase. 547 00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:06,160 Speaker 3: And chase a dream is such a cheesy phrase. 548 00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:09,000 Speaker 2: That it's true, right literally what you did? 549 00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:13,240 Speaker 1: You know, you went and chased a dream and then 550 00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:16,560 Speaker 1: you had all this excite, all these exciting opportunities. And 551 00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:19,720 Speaker 1: the story here isn't like that was a bad thing 552 00:26:20,119 --> 00:26:23,840 Speaker 1: to do that. But what sometimes we get ourselves in 553 00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:25,960 Speaker 1: a position where then we're like, well, I can't what 554 00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:29,600 Speaker 1: could I drop? You've had to simplify and what you 555 00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:33,639 Speaker 1: talk about from that terrible time, that terrible summer, which 556 00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:35,960 Speaker 1: was you also write so beautifully about how it was 557 00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:38,320 Speaker 1: that particular terrible summer on the East coast of Australia 558 00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:40,600 Speaker 1: when the skies were black and the fires were burning, 559 00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:42,840 Speaker 1: and the wood it felt at the end of the world. Anyway, 560 00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:46,119 Speaker 1: Yes it did, and then you were dealing with all that. Yes, 561 00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:48,440 Speaker 1: but people listening are looking at their list and going, 562 00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:50,800 Speaker 1: how can I reclaim myself? 563 00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:53,159 Speaker 3: Do we have to make those hard calls? 564 00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:56,160 Speaker 4: One hundred percent, it's. 565 00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:01,840 Speaker 2: You're empowered by the realize that everything is a choice. 566 00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:06,119 Speaker 2: They're not all easy choices, but they are choices. So 567 00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:08,560 Speaker 2: I had to choose between the radio and the cooking 568 00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:11,720 Speaker 2: school at one point, And how do you give up 569 00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:13,400 Speaker 2: a radio show that's called the Rabbit. 570 00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:14,120 Speaker 4: And Julie Goodwin Show. 571 00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:16,480 Speaker 2: Who's going to do the Rabbit and Julie Goodwin Show 572 00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:17,440 Speaker 2: if it's not Julie good One? 573 00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:18,280 Speaker 3: And you loved it? 574 00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:20,000 Speaker 4: I loved it. I loved it. 575 00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:22,680 Speaker 2: And then my cooking school, well, I's got my name 576 00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:25,159 Speaker 2: on the door as well. You know who else is 577 00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:28,040 Speaker 2: going to do it? And I did have a beautiful 578 00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:30,920 Speaker 2: coworker who ran it for a lot of the time. 579 00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:32,399 Speaker 4: That I was unwell, and I was aware on. 580 00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:34,399 Speaker 2: Master Chef and all that sort of stuff that at 581 00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:36,199 Speaker 2: the end of the day, you know, she went and 582 00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:36,720 Speaker 2: had a baby. 583 00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:38,280 Speaker 4: She had her life to live. 584 00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:40,720 Speaker 2: She couldn't live my dro she couldn't live my life, 585 00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:45,439 Speaker 2: and rightly so. And I was really struggling with that 586 00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:47,879 Speaker 2: decision to let go of that because I'd already let 587 00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:49,359 Speaker 2: go of the radio. I'm surely if I've let go 588 00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:50,760 Speaker 2: of one thing, I shouldn't have to let go of 589 00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:53,520 Speaker 2: the other thing as well, because that's not fair. But 590 00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:56,639 Speaker 2: I couldn't start it. I call it long COVID. Our 591 00:27:56,680 --> 00:27:59,280 Speaker 2: business had long covid. We survived the immediacy of it 592 00:27:59,359 --> 00:27:59,919 Speaker 2: that we couldn't. 593 00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:02,439 Speaker 4: We couldn't. We just couldn't operate if. 594 00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:07,280 Speaker 1: You didn't take her meals and delivery packs for bloody 595 00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:11,080 Speaker 1: heart pivoted like netball players, we did. And again I 596 00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:16,040 Speaker 1: was saying to my beautiful therapist, I can't, I can't. 597 00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:17,679 Speaker 1: I can't close the business. 598 00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:20,320 Speaker 2: I can't afford to for a start, because there was 599 00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:22,720 Speaker 2: all this money that I would have to find to 600 00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:25,400 Speaker 2: pay back all the people who hold tickets and giftouchers 601 00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:27,920 Speaker 2: and you know, all the bills, and it's not paid off, 602 00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:34,000 Speaker 2: you know. And she said to me, and how much it. 603 00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:38,840 Speaker 4: Is a funeral. Oh wow, yeah, yeah, that gave me pause. 604 00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:40,640 Speaker 2: And then a few weeks later she said, yeah, I 605 00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:45,280 Speaker 2: don't normally I'm not normally that prescriptive, but yeah, and 606 00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:47,400 Speaker 2: she said to me, and I said, all the people 607 00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:49,480 Speaker 2: are let down. And as I write in the book, 608 00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:52,400 Speaker 2: she very pragmatically said, well, it's not brain surgery, Julie, 609 00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:53,400 Speaker 2: it's cooking classes. 610 00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:56,800 Speaker 4: They're not going to die, Like, oh. 611 00:28:56,640 --> 00:28:59,080 Speaker 2: My god, I do you think I'm more important than 612 00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:02,560 Speaker 2: I really am? And can I tell you that that 613 00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:05,920 Speaker 2: is a huge lesson And this is something I'd love 614 00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:10,440 Speaker 2: for any woman to hear, because I think it's important. 615 00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:10,720 Speaker 3: Right. 616 00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:14,800 Speaker 2: You think that if you stop doing something, it's not 617 00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:16,400 Speaker 2: going to get done, or it's not going to get 618 00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:18,360 Speaker 2: done right, or it's not going to get done this year, 619 00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:21,280 Speaker 2: you know. But what happens because I had to stop, 620 00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:25,520 Speaker 2: I stopped everything suddenly because I went into a psychled 621 00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:30,480 Speaker 2: so ideally, prior to that point when I stopped, my 622 00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:35,920 Speaker 2: sons didn't starve, my husband managed, my family was fine. 623 00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:38,520 Speaker 2: My radio show was taken on by somebody else, my 624 00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:40,720 Speaker 2: cooking school was taken on by somebody else. And what 625 00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:44,280 Speaker 2: happened was all these people in my life just stepped 626 00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:48,520 Speaker 2: into the breach, and what it allowed was for them 627 00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:52,560 Speaker 2: to bring their creativity and their love and their resources 628 00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:55,960 Speaker 2: and shine themselves. And I just thought, my god, I've 629 00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:59,800 Speaker 2: been trying so hard to make sure everything's perfect and 630 00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:01,480 Speaker 2: all all these plates are spinning in the air, and 631 00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:02,680 Speaker 2: actually I. 632 00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:04,360 Speaker 4: Didn't need to. I didn't need to. 633 00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:08,040 Speaker 2: So my learning from that is I'm not as important 634 00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:09,680 Speaker 2: as I think I him. 635 00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:12,560 Speaker 4: But I'm way more loved than I realized. 636 00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:17,560 Speaker 1: Your love for your family comes through so strongly through 637 00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:19,760 Speaker 1: every page of this book, and I have to say 638 00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:22,320 Speaker 1: there was a bit that absolutely broke me a bit, 639 00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:24,400 Speaker 1: which was, I know, a very hard chapter for you 640 00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:28,040 Speaker 1: to write, which was the night that you were stopped 641 00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:30,960 Speaker 1: do Ui. Yeah, Now this story has been in the 642 00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:34,000 Speaker 1: public and you know it's not a secret, but you 643 00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:38,440 Speaker 1: I could feel in the words on the page how 644 00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:42,800 Speaker 1: much shame you had in that moment that night you 645 00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:46,040 Speaker 1: were arrested. Yes, you had to go home and you 646 00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:48,040 Speaker 1: told your husband and well you had to tell your 647 00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:48,880 Speaker 1: husband's it came together. 648 00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:50,080 Speaker 3: You told your kids. 649 00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:53,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, I must have also felt like a moment where 650 00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:56,920 Speaker 1: I'm going to lose their love and respect. And yet 651 00:30:57,000 --> 00:30:59,400 Speaker 1: it strikes me that your family, through all the things 652 00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:03,640 Speaker 1: you've been through, is still a very strong one. 653 00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:04,840 Speaker 4: Their extraordinary. 654 00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:09,480 Speaker 2: You know, it would be so easy for kids, you know, 655 00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:12,520 Speaker 2: in their early twenties at that time, that seven years 656 00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:15,600 Speaker 2: ago now and it still burns my god, would be 657 00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:18,120 Speaker 2: very easy for them to throw that my face. I've 658 00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:21,720 Speaker 2: been lecturing them their whole lives, you know, especially as 659 00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:24,680 Speaker 2: they become teenagers, about safety and about doing the right thing, 660 00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:27,280 Speaker 2: and about you know, being a good citizen and all 661 00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:29,959 Speaker 2: of that. And you know, in that moment, I became 662 00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:36,560 Speaker 2: a hypocrite, criminal, like all the things I've been trying 663 00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:40,320 Speaker 2: to teach my kids not to be. And yeah that 664 00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:45,360 Speaker 2: they were able. They gathered around me and just held 665 00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:47,280 Speaker 2: me tight. They knew how painful that was, and they 666 00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:50,320 Speaker 2: knew how far away from myself I had gotten in 667 00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:54,080 Speaker 2: that moment, how far away from who I believed myself 668 00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:57,000 Speaker 2: to be and what my values were and everything that 669 00:31:57,080 --> 00:32:00,520 Speaker 2: was important to me. It was just gone that night. 670 00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:03,880 Speaker 2: Gone because alcohol is part of your story. It's not 671 00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:06,640 Speaker 2: and you also express this very well in the book. 672 00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:09,040 Speaker 2: It's it's part of the story, and it was something 673 00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:11,520 Speaker 2: you knew you needed to address. Again, It wasn't in 674 00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:15,600 Speaker 2: a bow you didn't stop drinking after the Dui, but 675 00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:18,960 Speaker 2: you have now been sober for several years. That's also 676 00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:21,280 Speaker 2: a very common issue for midlife women that the wine 677 00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:22,920 Speaker 2: at the end of the day is their. 678 00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:26,120 Speaker 1: Treat, it's their reward. And you say this, I worked hard, 679 00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:28,960 Speaker 1: I deserved it. And when your mind is racing and 680 00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:32,640 Speaker 1: you need to relax, it feels like the thing you 681 00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:36,320 Speaker 1: need is sober life fun. 682 00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:40,960 Speaker 4: That midlife women need to know. Can it be fun 683 00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:44,400 Speaker 4: without wine? Do you know what? It's more fun? 684 00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:47,000 Speaker 2: And I know that's such a boring. 685 00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:48,640 Speaker 4: Thing to say, but it's just the truth. 686 00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:52,760 Speaker 2: You know. I was in the grip of I say 687 00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:54,800 Speaker 2: it a bit. You know, I could stop if I wanted. 688 00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:56,960 Speaker 2: I could stop, but I don't want to. I could 689 00:32:56,960 --> 00:32:59,120 Speaker 2: stop if I want to, but I don't want to, 690 00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:03,240 Speaker 2: and what should too? Until it it got hold of 691 00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:05,200 Speaker 2: me a little bit tighter, a little bit tighter, And 692 00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:08,560 Speaker 2: then I got to a point where I wanted to 693 00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:13,160 Speaker 2: and I couldn't, and it had become the only way 694 00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:16,560 Speaker 2: to settle things down. It was not fun. It was 695 00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:23,320 Speaker 2: not fun. It was awful and waking up feeling and 696 00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:26,720 Speaker 2: it wasn't even the physical after effects. It was the shame, 697 00:33:27,520 --> 00:33:31,440 Speaker 2: just feeling like such a loser because I couldn't get 698 00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:35,080 Speaker 2: a handle on this thing. Now, like I say, my 699 00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:38,200 Speaker 2: bedtime routine. It sounds so daggy. I get it, I know, 700 00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:39,240 Speaker 2: but it's your joy. 701 00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:40,480 Speaker 4: It is my joy. 702 00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:43,560 Speaker 2: And I have a lot more fun doing other things 703 00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:46,680 Speaker 2: than drinking. And there's some things that I'm just like, 704 00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:49,200 Speaker 2: you know what, that actually sounds like hell to me 705 00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:52,760 Speaker 2: now because I know it's a free bar and everyone's 706 00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:54,680 Speaker 2: just turning up there with the intention of getting as 707 00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:56,200 Speaker 2: smashed as they can, as fast as they can. 708 00:33:56,240 --> 00:33:58,320 Speaker 4: And that would have been I would have been who, 709 00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:00,520 Speaker 4: let's go what you wearing? 710 00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:04,120 Speaker 2: And now I'm just like, I'll pop in and see 711 00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:05,800 Speaker 2: the people I need to see and say hello to 712 00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:08,200 Speaker 2: the people I need to say hello and have conversations 713 00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:10,919 Speaker 2: with people while I can make a real connection with. 714 00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:12,200 Speaker 4: Them, yeah, because they're lucid. 715 00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:15,480 Speaker 2: And then I will be the boring one to check out, 716 00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:17,799 Speaker 2: go home and put my armies on, grab a good 717 00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:19,799 Speaker 2: book and a cup of tea. 718 00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:20,480 Speaker 3: And get your creams on. 719 00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:20,879 Speaker 4: Yah. 720 00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:24,200 Speaker 2: And you know what if that's if that makes me 721 00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:28,440 Speaker 2: sound like an old nanny idea of fun, then well 722 00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:29,000 Speaker 2: I am a nan. 723 00:34:30,160 --> 00:34:31,520 Speaker 4: I am a grammar and I. 724 00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:34,840 Speaker 2: I have so much more joy in other areas of 725 00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:36,479 Speaker 2: my life now that I'll let go of that thing 726 00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:38,520 Speaker 2: that had me buy the balls. 727 00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:41,600 Speaker 1: So just to talk a little bit to finish off 728 00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:43,600 Speaker 1: about what your life's like. Now you've talked a little 729 00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:45,759 Speaker 1: bit about you know, the suite of things that you 730 00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:48,080 Speaker 1: do and like, as you say, it's not wrapped in 731 00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:50,360 Speaker 1: a boat. But when you're so you're busy at the moment. 732 00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:53,440 Speaker 1: Right you've been on Dancing with the Stars, you're promoting 733 00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:56,840 Speaker 1: this book, you'll be traveling, so it's not like you 734 00:34:56,960 --> 00:35:00,359 Speaker 1: pressed off on life and now you only do self 735 00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:00,879 Speaker 1: care things. 736 00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:01,760 Speaker 3: Twenty four to seven. 737 00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:02,080 Speaker 4: No. 738 00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:04,120 Speaker 2: As lovely as that sounds, I love it. 739 00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:05,480 Speaker 3: Right, So how do you? 740 00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:07,959 Speaker 1: Because I think people are often thinking about the practicalities 741 00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:10,919 Speaker 1: and they're like, but I will still have to work 742 00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:12,359 Speaker 1: and I will still have to do this in that 743 00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:14,040 Speaker 1: there's a bit in the book where you talk about 744 00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:16,960 Speaker 1: going back to Master Chef Yes, and how you said 745 00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:21,640 Speaker 1: when they did their Fans and Favorites Yes with Jock 746 00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:24,440 Speaker 1: and Melissa Andy, and you talk about how you had 747 00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:26,919 Speaker 1: to say to them, look, I'd love to come back, 748 00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:29,120 Speaker 1: but it's got to be different this time. Because can 749 00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:31,360 Speaker 1: you just talk a bit about the boundaries you have 750 00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:33,399 Speaker 1: put in place to be able to do the things 751 00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:36,120 Speaker 1: you do while looking after yourself. Well, you know, I've 752 00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:38,839 Speaker 1: never been great at it, but in that moment where 753 00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:41,359 Speaker 1: they rang and said we'd like you to come back. 754 00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:43,759 Speaker 1: So I was only three weeks out of hospital when 755 00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:45,719 Speaker 1: that phone call came, and it was a couple of 756 00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:49,880 Speaker 1: months before the season started, and I was so blase 757 00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:52,480 Speaker 1: about these boundaries because I didn't think they'd be able 758 00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:54,719 Speaker 1: to do it, and so it was just like, well, 759 00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:57,440 Speaker 1: this is what needs to happen. I need to be 760 00:35:57,440 --> 00:36:00,880 Speaker 1: able to swim, so I need my own space, contact 761 00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:02,800 Speaker 1: with my family, I need to see my therapist. 762 00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:05,120 Speaker 4: I need eight hours of sleep at night. You know. 763 00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:08,320 Speaker 2: I need all these things. I'm going to need probably 764 00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:10,600 Speaker 2: some social media support I'm going to need, you know. 765 00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:13,839 Speaker 2: And I just said that. I just blew it because 766 00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:16,040 Speaker 2: I just honestly thought the answer would be, well, it's 767 00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:18,040 Speaker 2: not really going to fit in with this massive production 768 00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:21,520 Speaker 2: to sort of fit all your needs in, and they 769 00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:24,839 Speaker 2: just said we can do all of that, And it 770 00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:28,160 Speaker 2: blew my mind because I thought I didn't even think 771 00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:29,920 Speaker 2: I was laying down boundaries. What I thought I was 772 00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:32,239 Speaker 2: doing was saying, no, you know, I can't do it 773 00:36:32,239 --> 00:36:33,680 Speaker 2: because of all these things, and they just said, we 774 00:36:33,719 --> 00:36:34,439 Speaker 2: can do all of that. 775 00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:36,480 Speaker 3: Do you think we were all afraid to ask what 776 00:36:36,560 --> 00:36:37,359 Speaker 3: we need. 777 00:36:37,239 --> 00:36:41,359 Speaker 4: One hundred percent? One hundred percent? And it's so like. 778 00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:45,439 Speaker 2: Even last weekend, you know, I was packing getting ready 779 00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:48,040 Speaker 2: to go on this book tour, and I had so 780 00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:50,440 Speaker 2: much anxiety in my guts. And part of it's because 781 00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:52,360 Speaker 2: putting this out in the world is not an easy 782 00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:54,799 Speaker 2: thing to do. So I was meant to go to 783 00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:57,239 Speaker 2: a football game, and I was meant to go to 784 00:36:57,280 --> 00:36:59,360 Speaker 2: a function prior to the football game, and I hadn't 785 00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:03,000 Speaker 2: finished packing, and I was just in a tis and 786 00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:05,040 Speaker 2: I was just kind of rushing. 787 00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:05,919 Speaker 4: I had to rush to the shop. 788 00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:07,560 Speaker 2: So I had to rush home to get ready for 789 00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:10,920 Speaker 2: this pre match function, which I knew was, you know, 790 00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:12,399 Speaker 2: going to be dream. 791 00:37:13,560 --> 00:37:17,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, you're beloved, My beautiful Mariners. 792 00:37:17,640 --> 00:37:20,520 Speaker 2: Love them, the men and the women love them. Mixer 793 00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:24,879 Speaker 2: have said you, what's up. You're feeling feeling anxious? I said, 794 00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:27,319 Speaker 2: there's just too many things to do today and I'm 795 00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:28,319 Speaker 2: not going to get them all done. 796 00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:32,960 Speaker 4: And he said, so what's your priorities? And I said, 797 00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:34,719 Speaker 4: I've got a pack. I've got to you know, x 798 00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:35,239 Speaker 4: y z it. 799 00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:38,040 Speaker 2: And he said, what, why are you coming to the 800 00:37:38,040 --> 00:37:41,080 Speaker 2: function then, and I said, oh, because I said I 801 00:37:41,120 --> 00:37:44,040 Speaker 2: was going to be there, and he goes, Julie, just 802 00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:47,080 Speaker 2: don't go. I said, okay, I said I might still 803 00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:49,480 Speaker 2: come with the game though I really like the games. 804 00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:52,480 Speaker 2: And he said, all right, well that that freeze up 805 00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:54,040 Speaker 2: two and a half hours in the middle of the day, 806 00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:55,719 Speaker 2: how does that make you feel? And I just said, 807 00:37:56,160 --> 00:37:58,640 Speaker 2: like a boulder just came off my shoulders. And I said, 808 00:37:58,640 --> 00:38:01,399 Speaker 2: why didn't I think of that for myself? And it's 809 00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:03,879 Speaker 2: just because don't want to let people down. I've said 810 00:38:03,920 --> 00:38:06,920 Speaker 2: I will of it. So A stop saying you will 811 00:38:07,560 --> 00:38:11,399 Speaker 2: to everything, and b if you then realize you can't, 812 00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:13,359 Speaker 2: you need to be able to say that too. So 813 00:38:13,880 --> 00:38:18,120 Speaker 2: putting those boundaries in places is crucial. And like you say, 814 00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:19,920 Speaker 2: you know, still got to make a living, so I've 815 00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:23,640 Speaker 2: still got to do things that require effort. Sometimes are hard, 816 00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:27,719 Speaker 2: sometimes are unpleasant, you know, sometimes are more physical than 817 00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:31,160 Speaker 2: you want to do. But it's still all choices, you know, 818 00:38:31,239 --> 00:38:35,120 Speaker 2: and sometimes those choices are hard. If your job makes 819 00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:38,520 Speaker 2: you horribly unhappy. For eight hours of every day, five 820 00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:41,919 Speaker 2: days a week, make some choices around that. They might 821 00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:44,840 Speaker 2: be hard choices. They might involve a drop in income, 822 00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:48,040 Speaker 2: they might involve having to commute further, they might involve 823 00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:51,920 Speaker 2: but it's still your choice, you know. And I'm well 824 00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:54,360 Speaker 2: aware that there's people that don't have those kinds of choices, 825 00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:58,359 Speaker 2: so acknowledging that. But for where I'm coming from is 826 00:38:59,040 --> 00:39:02,520 Speaker 2: I now choose to create space in my life for 827 00:39:02,600 --> 00:39:05,000 Speaker 2: things that bring me joy. It's my choice when I 828 00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:06,480 Speaker 2: wake up in the morning, if I'm going to have 829 00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:08,919 Speaker 2: a day ahead of me that I go, oh, I'm 830 00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:11,760 Speaker 2: excited for today, or oh, my god, I can't believe 831 00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:12,760 Speaker 2: what I've got to do today. 832 00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:13,080 Speaker 3: Yeah. 833 00:39:13,719 --> 00:39:17,160 Speaker 2: And obviously you can't have every day be a fist 834 00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:17,840 Speaker 2: pump day. 835 00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:19,600 Speaker 4: You can't. It's life. 836 00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:22,799 Speaker 2: But if you find that day after day after day 837 00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:25,640 Speaker 2: after day there's no fist pumping, there's no joy, there's 838 00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:28,400 Speaker 2: no looking forward to anything, that's when you go okay. 839 00:39:29,239 --> 00:39:31,279 Speaker 4: And this is my whole goal in writing. 840 00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:33,760 Speaker 2: This book is that people come to this realization before 841 00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:36,959 Speaker 2: they find themselves at the edge of Brisbane water. 842 00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:42,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, talking to strangers. Yeah, although thank god you did, 843 00:39:42,440 --> 00:39:44,680 Speaker 3: thank God. What does bring your joy. 844 00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:45,840 Speaker 4: My granddaughter. 845 00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:47,920 Speaker 3: You've got a granddaughter. 846 00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:48,960 Speaker 4: She is divine. 847 00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:50,200 Speaker 3: Are also grown up. 848 00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:54,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, they're all grown up. They are extraordinary, beautiful young men. 849 00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:56,520 Speaker 2: I'm very proud of them. They bring me joy. I 850 00:39:56,560 --> 00:39:59,080 Speaker 2: love to paint. That's new. 851 00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:02,040 Speaker 4: I've always loved that. I love drawing and. 852 00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:04,680 Speaker 2: Stuff that I'm. 853 00:40:03,560 --> 00:40:06,320 Speaker 4: Painting now and I love it. And I love music. 854 00:40:06,680 --> 00:40:10,040 Speaker 2: I love going to a footy match on an autumn afternoon. 855 00:40:10,560 --> 00:40:12,279 Speaker 3: You know, I still cook a lot. I do. 856 00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:12,680 Speaker 1: I do. 857 00:40:12,719 --> 00:40:14,200 Speaker 4: I'm still the main cook in the house. 858 00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:16,319 Speaker 2: And you know, when I'm not too learn off doing 859 00:40:16,360 --> 00:40:20,680 Speaker 2: things like book tour, I cook most nights. But when 860 00:40:20,719 --> 00:40:22,520 Speaker 2: I don't, my boys step in and do. I still 861 00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:25,279 Speaker 2: got two of them at home and lost I lost 862 00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:29,000 Speaker 2: that joy. I lost all the joy. But I lost cooking. 863 00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:33,200 Speaker 2: I lost everything. And yeah, just being with my people, 864 00:40:33,640 --> 00:40:35,799 Speaker 2: being near the ocean, those are the things that bring 865 00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:39,239 Speaker 2: me joy. And I'm allowed for that to be priorities in. 866 00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:39,799 Speaker 4: My life now. 867 00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:44,720 Speaker 2: That's I permit myself to make those priorities in my life. 868 00:40:44,800 --> 00:40:47,920 Speaker 2: And my life is you know, it's not perfect, and 869 00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:50,400 Speaker 2: there are ups and downs, and there's no doubt going 870 00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:52,680 Speaker 2: to be challenges ahead and grief ahead. As you know, 871 00:40:53,440 --> 00:40:57,600 Speaker 2: my parents' age and my things happen that are unexpected, 872 00:40:58,080 --> 00:41:00,680 Speaker 2: but I'm much better equipped now, I believe to deal 873 00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:01,399 Speaker 2: with those things. 874 00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:01,800 Speaker 4: Yeah. 875 00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:03,600 Speaker 1: Well, thank you so much, Thank you so much for 876 00:41:03,640 --> 00:41:06,680 Speaker 1: writing this book, because it is a lot of I 877 00:41:06,719 --> 00:41:09,239 Speaker 1: think so much in there for so many people, because 878 00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:11,560 Speaker 1: it is a lot of little pressures too that build 879 00:41:11,640 --> 00:41:15,640 Speaker 1: up ordinary things like your children getting poorly or your parents' aging, 880 00:41:15,719 --> 00:41:18,359 Speaker 1: money worries, all those things that we're all dealing with, 881 00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:23,200 Speaker 1: but when they compound and compound and pound, Yeah, it's 882 00:41:23,320 --> 00:41:24,680 Speaker 1: really relatable, and I want to. 883 00:41:24,640 --> 00:41:27,160 Speaker 2: Thank you so much, thank you, thank you very much for. 884 00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:33,840 Speaker 1: Oh I've been telling people about that conversation ever since 885 00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:36,480 Speaker 1: I sat down with Julie. So much of it has 886 00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:39,520 Speaker 1: stuck with me, and I find myself saying to people. 887 00:41:39,680 --> 00:41:41,359 Speaker 3: You just have to ask for what you need. You'll 888 00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:45,160 Speaker 3: be surprised at how little they care. Or everything's a choice. 889 00:41:45,160 --> 00:41:46,560 Speaker 3: Some of the choices are just hard. 890 00:41:47,080 --> 00:41:49,760 Speaker 1: And I've been thinking a lot about her point about 891 00:41:49,760 --> 00:41:53,160 Speaker 1: toxic gratitude and how if the bones of our lives 892 00:41:53,160 --> 00:41:56,520 Speaker 1: are okay, we're not allowed to complain about the bruised, 893 00:41:56,560 --> 00:42:00,680 Speaker 1: fleshy bits, not even for a moment I've been thinking 894 00:42:01,160 --> 00:42:04,000 Speaker 1: about the fact that her story, like mine and yours, 895 00:42:04,080 --> 00:42:04,800 Speaker 1: is not finished. 896 00:42:05,239 --> 00:42:06,640 Speaker 3: It's not tied up in a little bow. 897 00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:09,440 Speaker 1: It's not like, oh, well, that happened, but that she 898 00:42:09,640 --> 00:42:12,320 Speaker 1: and you and we are all still bound to wobble sometimes, 899 00:42:12,320 --> 00:42:17,239 Speaker 1: and that's okay anyway. Please share this episode of Mid 900 00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:20,520 Speaker 1: with anyone who needs to hear it. Mid is a 901 00:42:20,560 --> 00:42:23,080 Speaker 1: new show, so every bit of word of mouth will 902 00:42:23,120 --> 00:42:25,759 Speaker 1: help us, and I believe in it so deeply. I 903 00:42:25,800 --> 00:42:28,600 Speaker 1: want every woman who's ever sat around giving herself a 904 00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:30,319 Speaker 1: hard time to listen to this