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Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast. Mamma Maya acknowledges

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Speaker 1: the traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast

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Speaker 1: is recorded on.

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Speaker 2: I barely sat down by the time a nurse and

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Speaker 2: pulled my name to go into a room. And we

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Speaker 2: had to walk down quite a long corridor for us

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Speaker 2: to get to the room we were going to, and

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Speaker 2: she kept looking back at me, and you know, it's

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Speaker 2: that look where you're like, Oh, I know she's about

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Speaker 2: to tell me something bad. She knows it too, and

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Speaker 2: we're both just looking at each other, like Oh.

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Speaker 3: Ellie Harrison, like a lot of us, at twenty one,

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Speaker 3: was having fun. She was working in fashion, studying, going

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Speaker 3: out partying with her friends, and she had a boyfriend

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Speaker 3: who we can't name for reasons you'll hear soon. Ellie

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Speaker 3: had been with her boyfriend for about a year when

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Speaker 3: she decided to get a routine STI test to be

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Speaker 3: a responsible near adult. The results changed her life. Ellie

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Speaker 3: was diagnosed with HIV three letters that sent her into

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Speaker 3: a panic. What did this mean, would she survive? And

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Speaker 3: of course, how did she get it. Ellie's life is

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Speaker 3: divided between before HIV and after HIV. So we started

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Speaker 3: in the before times. Ellie Harrison, Welcome to No Filter.

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Speaker 3: Thanks for having me in thinking about you and the

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Speaker 3: story that you're about to share with us.

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Speaker 1: I think that.

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Speaker 3: Sometimes in life, when seismic and cataclysmic things happen, you

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Speaker 3: tend to see your life as like a before and

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Speaker 3: an after.

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Speaker 2: It before and after.

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Speaker 1: Right, what was your before?

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Speaker 3: Tell us where you were in twenty eighteen and what

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Speaker 3: itly looked like then.

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Speaker 2: So I was twenty one at the time. I was

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Speaker 2: still studying at university. So my university, the way it

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Speaker 2: worked is you do two year studying, you do one

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Speaker 2: year away and a placement year at work, and then

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Speaker 2: you come back for your final year. I had just

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Speaker 2: finished my placement year. I was working in London. It

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Speaker 2: was like really fun. I worked at a huge fashion company.

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Speaker 2: I was having like the time of my life, and

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Speaker 2: then this kind of all unraveled. Probably the best point

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Speaker 2: I've ever been in my life. It just kind of

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Speaker 2: fell apart from them.

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Speaker 1: What happened when it fell apart.

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Speaker 2: So I'd been in a relationship for just over a year.

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Speaker 2: Because I'd moved to London to study. I then moved

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Speaker 2: back to Birmingham to finish my university degree, and I'd

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Speaker 2: made the decision because it was a long distance relationship

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Speaker 2: that I wanted to get tested. I didn't think my

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Speaker 2: relationship can go the distance, and I thought it's safe

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Speaker 2: to get tested, and I just ordered a routine home

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Speaker 2: SDI test. Didn't for any reason. I'd no symptoms, didn't

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Speaker 2: imagine anything was going to happen. It was just a

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Speaker 2: precautionary measure. And then I was diagnosed as HIV.

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Speaker 1: Positive from your at home taste. Yeah, and what was

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Speaker 1: the at home taste?

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Speaker 3: Was it a leak taste or a saliva taste or

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Speaker 3: how do you do it?

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Speaker 2: So it tested for every single STI So there's two

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Speaker 2: swamps you do one for the throat, one for downstairs,

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Speaker 2: and then you aught to do a blood sample. So

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Speaker 2: I'd done all of these tests center off obviously expected

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Speaker 2: it to come back completely clear, and it didn't. This

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Speaker 2: was back in twenty eighteen, and I think maybe the

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Speaker 2: education in especially in the UK, for sexual health wasn't

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Speaker 2: as good as it should have been. I got a

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Speaker 2: text to say I needed to come back into the clinic.

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Speaker 2: I had gone back in and my immediate thought was

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Speaker 2: I've got chlamydia or I've got gonorrhea, some kind of

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Speaker 2: lesser SDI. It wasn't until I walked into the clinic

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Speaker 2: they explained that the test that had come back as

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Speaker 2: reactive was HIV. At that point, the nurse advised me

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Speaker 2: it was highly likely it was a false positive and

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Speaker 2: I had nothing to worry about. I'd been in a

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Speaker 2: long term relationship, I had tested negative literally a year

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Speaker 2: prior before I met my boyfriend, and I had nothing

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Speaker 2: to be concerned about. So I left that appointment kind

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Speaker 2: of thinking it's a clerical error, maybe the bloods were

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Speaker 2: mixed up or something went wrong. And I then about

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Speaker 2: a week after that, got a call to say could

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Speaker 2: you come in immediately? And I was like, well, how

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Speaker 2: soon as immediately? And they were like now right.

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Speaker 1: And in that moment, did you know.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I had only been retested for one thing. So

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Speaker 2: I'd been retested for HIV and nothing else. And at

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Speaker 2: the point they said come back in, it was pretty

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Speaker 2: clear cut to me that the only thing that was

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Speaker 2: going to be coming back was that as a positive.

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Speaker 2: I panicked and I cried, and I was like I

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Speaker 2: don't know what to do, Like I don't know where

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Speaker 2: to go, and I'm so fortunate. I have a fantastic

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Speaker 2: relationship with my mum and dad, so I rang my

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Speaker 2: my dad instantly to be like, I think this is

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Speaker 2: about to happen to me. Could you come and sit

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Speaker 2: with me?

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Speaker 1: Where were you in that moment? Were you still in

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Speaker 1: the clinic?

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Speaker 2: I was at work, So I'd actually took a summer

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Speaker 2: placement like a second internship, to basically work in Birmingham

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Speaker 2: before I went back to UNI, and I had, I

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Speaker 2: want to say about forty missed calls. I went on

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Speaker 2: my lunch break, I didn't have my phone with me,

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Speaker 2: and as soon as I got to my phone and

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Speaker 2: I was like, oh, something has happened.

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Speaker 3: Oh yes, and your first thought was to call your parents.

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Speaker 2: That was your first call immediately Mom and Dad?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and what did you say in that fine call?

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Speaker 2: So they were aware of the fact I'd had this

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Speaker 2: false positive, so bless the hearts. They were actually at

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Speaker 2: an eighties festival, so it's a Monday morning, they were

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Speaker 2: about to head back home from a big weekend of drinking,

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Speaker 2: and I'd called them and I was like, can you

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Speaker 2: can you come to me? I think in the next

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Speaker 2: hour or so I'm going to be told I'm HIV positive.

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Speaker 2: Could you could you get here? My mom and dad

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Speaker 2: are in choose live T shirts, violently hungover, and like,

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Speaker 2: we will do what we can. We will be there.

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Speaker 2: It's going to take us about four or five hours,

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Speaker 2: but we will get to you.

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Speaker 1: What did you do then?

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Speaker 2: So I went back to work crying my eyes out,

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Speaker 2: and I was like, look, I need to leave. I've

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Speaker 2: got this doctor's appointment. At the time, I didn't really

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Speaker 2: want to give away too much information, so I was like,

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Speaker 2: I've just been called by the hospital. They say I

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Speaker 2: need to come, and now got myself an uber. I

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Speaker 2: arrived probably twenty thirty minutes early for the appointment, so

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Speaker 2: I got a coffee and I just sat on a

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Speaker 2: church bench and wasted.

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Speaker 1: How were you mean to leading?

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Speaker 2: I explain it to everyone, and I think it continued

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Speaker 2: like this for months. But you know in Chicken Little

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Speaker 2: where he says the sky is falling, That's what it

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Speaker 2: felt like to me, that I was saying to everyone,

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Speaker 2: the sky is falling, but no one else could see it,

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Speaker 2: Like everyone's life was continuing normally, but to me, the

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Speaker 2: sky had fallen in and no one was hearing me.

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Speaker 2: Like desperately being like this is something bad is happening?

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Speaker 3: I do, And was your intention to wait for your

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Speaker 3: parents or did you after the church bench you went

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Speaker 3: to the clinic.

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Speaker 2: Went to the clinic on my own. I think in

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Speaker 2: my head I expected it that when I walked into

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Speaker 2: the clinic I'd be sat in this waiting room for

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Speaker 2: like twenty thirty minutes, and I was like, God, it's

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Speaker 2: going to be so daunting. It all actually happened quite quickly.

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Speaker 2: So I went in, said my name, got took into

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Speaker 2: a waiting room, and I barely sat down by the

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Speaker 2: time a nurse had called my name to go into

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Speaker 2: a room. And we had to walk down quite a

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Speaker 2: long court corridor for us to get to the room

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Speaker 2: we were going to, and she kept looking back at me,

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Speaker 2: and you know, it's that look where you're like, oh,

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Speaker 2: I know she's about to tell me something bad. She

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Speaker 2: knows it too, and we're both just looking at each

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Speaker 2: other like oh oh oh.

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Speaker 3: And it's like with every step, were you like, I

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Speaker 3: don't want to take the next step.

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Speaker 1: How did they deliver the news to you?

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Speaker 2: So for me it was one on one. She'd basically

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Speaker 2: walked me into the room and before we have time

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Speaker 2: to like shut the door behind us. I was like,

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Speaker 2: just say it now, Like, just just say it. I

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Speaker 2: was like, I just need you to say it. And

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Speaker 2: she was like, look, calm down, like we can do

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Speaker 2: this slowly, and I was like, no, I need this,

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Speaker 2: I need to process. I need to go through this quickly.

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Speaker 2: So she shut the door and went, I'm really sorry

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Speaker 2: your HIV positive. Yeah. I then had about six or

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Speaker 2: seven panic attacks, so they were quite concerned at that point.

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Speaker 2: They kept trying to get me to lie down, and

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Speaker 2: they were like, do you need us to call anyone?

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Speaker 2: And I was like, I don't have so my best

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Speaker 2: friend at the time, I had been wringing her constantly

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Speaker 2: to be like come, come here, come here, but she

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Speaker 2: worked nights, so she was fast to see. It was

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Speaker 2: like ten o'clock in the morning, fine off, and I'm

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Speaker 2: like desperately ringing me like, I was like, she will come.

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Speaker 2: My parents are on the way. I was like, I

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Speaker 2: just need someone to get me through like the next

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Speaker 2: thirty minutes for my friend to wake up, and then

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Speaker 2: we can like figure the rest of this out.

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Speaker 1: What happened? Did you lie down for the thirty minutes?

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Speaker 1: Were you?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? The nurse was wonderful. So she laid me down

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Speaker 2: and she basically started talking to me about like everything

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Speaker 2: that hid and I don't think at that point in

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Speaker 2: time nothing went in right. I was not listening to

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Speaker 2: anything they were saying, but she was going through everything

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Speaker 2: about this is the medication you can take, this is

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Speaker 2: the life you can live. Everything's going to be okay.

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Speaker 2: But all I'm doing is like fast tracking, being like

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Speaker 2: I don't know what's going on. Am I going to die?

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Speaker 2: What's going to happen? They asked me to wait at

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Speaker 2: the clinic until someone could meet me. I refused that

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Speaker 2: and I said, look, I just I need to get

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Speaker 2: out of here. I really need some space. So after

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Speaker 2: about forty five minutes of talking with her, they did

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Speaker 2: let me leave. I then walked towards where my friend lived.

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Speaker 2: She'd woken up in that time and she was like, look,

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Speaker 2: I just need to jump in the shower and get

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Speaker 2: some clothes on. I'll come meet you. And I sat

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Speaker 2: on a canal in Birmingham with a can of Stella

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Speaker 2: and twenty cigarettes and waited for someone to done up.

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Speaker 1: Oh do you normally smoke?

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Speaker 2: No? Oh?

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Speaker 1: Oh wow?

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Speaker 3: Well at that point you would have been like well,

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Speaker 3: what are these health warnings?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think my immediate con is I do not

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Speaker 2: ever recall having any knowledge of HIV, so I don't

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Speaker 2: remember being taught as well. I'm sure I probably was,

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Speaker 2: but I don't have that memory. So I kind of

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Speaker 2: had carried a lot of the eighties stigma through and

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Speaker 2: I was like, I think I might die? Is this

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Speaker 2: a death sentence? Am I going to live? So I

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Speaker 2: think for a lot of that first day I was

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Speaker 2: still in a lot of panic of I didn't know

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Speaker 2: what was going to happen to.

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Speaker 3: Me, and the irony really of your parents being at

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Speaker 3: an eighties festival because they would have been very cognizant

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Speaker 3: in the eighties of yascourge of AIDS and HIV at

224
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Speaker 3: the time, and what were they doing? So they're still

225
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Speaker 3: en route to you in they choose Life TA shirts.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, bless their heart. So one of the leading HIV

227
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Speaker 2: charities in the UK is called Terence Higgins Trust. My

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Speaker 2: parents remember Terence Higgins from back in kind of the eighties,

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Speaker 2: nineties and the noughties. And when they weren't on the

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Speaker 2: phone to me, they were on the phone to them

231
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Speaker 2: and they had called the support line to ask for

232
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Speaker 2: help to be like, what do we do Our daughter

233
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Speaker 2: has just been diagnosed, and they gave them powerful information

234
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Speaker 2: of oh, this is what Ellie needs to know, but

235
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Speaker 2: this is also what you need to say when you

236
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Speaker 2: get there, because she's currently doing one thousand miles an hour.

237
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Speaker 2: So don't turn up and list all of these fantastic

238
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Speaker 2: things because she's not ready. What you need to be

239
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Speaker 2: ready for is to like be her mum and dad

240
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Speaker 2: and just support and get her through the next few days,

241
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Speaker 2: and then you can give her all the information of

242
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Speaker 2: what's going to happen next.

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Speaker 3: In that period of time, Ellie, when you're waiting for

244
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Speaker 3: your friend and you're waiting for your parents and your

245
00:11:40,085 --> 00:11:44,005
Speaker 3: chicken little and your sky has fallen, well, you like,

246
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Speaker 3: how did I get this?

247
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Speaker 1: How did I get this?

248
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Speaker 2: I think I carried that not just from that day,

249
00:11:48,965 --> 00:11:52,405
Speaker 2: for like a good three years of not just how

250
00:11:52,445 --> 00:11:54,765
Speaker 2: did I get it? But why me? Like why did

251
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Speaker 2: this have to happen to me? I was in a relationship.

252
00:11:57,485 --> 00:11:59,925
Speaker 2: I had always been very good at testing. This was

253
00:11:59,965 --> 00:12:01,765
Speaker 2: not a test I did for symptoms. This is not

254
00:12:01,805 --> 00:12:04,765
Speaker 2: something I thought I'd contracted. So I was like, why

255
00:12:04,805 --> 00:12:08,405
Speaker 2: if I'm so safe at getting tested? Between partners, has

256
00:12:08,445 --> 00:12:09,525
Speaker 2: this had to occur.

257
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Speaker 1: And how did it occur?

258
00:12:11,805 --> 00:12:14,165
Speaker 2: I don't fully know the ins and the out of

259
00:12:14,445 --> 00:12:17,805
Speaker 2: what happened. In the UK, is a legal requirement when

260
00:12:17,805 --> 00:12:21,165
Speaker 2: you're diagnosed that you do partner tracing, So any person

261
00:12:21,325 --> 00:12:24,165
Speaker 2: six months prior to your last negative tests you contact,

262
00:12:24,565 --> 00:12:26,165
Speaker 2: you can do it yourself where you can get it

263
00:12:26,165 --> 00:12:28,085
Speaker 2: done anonymously and the clinic will do it for you.

264
00:12:28,965 --> 00:12:31,925
Speaker 2: I from my knowledge, there is only one person that

265
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Speaker 2: I know that I have had sexual contact with that

266
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Speaker 2: has HIV, so I can make deductions from that of

267
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Speaker 2: what I think occurred. Unfortunately, my yeah, my relationship broke

268
00:12:42,325 --> 00:12:47,245
Speaker 2: down very quickly after being diagnosed, and therefore there's a

269
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Speaker 2: lot of unanswered questions of how did it occur, how

270
00:12:50,205 --> 00:12:53,765
Speaker 2: did this happen, and where did this kind of stem from.

271
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Speaker 2: So I think that's also like something you carry because

272
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Speaker 2: you always want to know the ifs, the wise, the wares,

273
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Speaker 2: and it's something I've just had to learn to accept

274
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Speaker 2: that I'm not going to get.

275
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Speaker 1: That so you had to make how many fine calls?

276
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Speaker 2: So for me, there was three people that I had

277
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Speaker 2: contact with. One was basically currently my boyfriend, One was

278
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Speaker 2: a boyfriend I had before I met him. And another

279
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Speaker 2: one was someone that I had just had sex with

280
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Speaker 2: at university. My boyfriend I told before I got into

281
00:13:23,365 --> 00:13:25,325
Speaker 2: the clinics, when I sat on this church bench. I

282
00:13:25,365 --> 00:13:27,725
Speaker 2: had told him. He knew about the whole positive and

283
00:13:27,765 --> 00:13:31,365
Speaker 2: he was aware that this could happen. The boyfriend before that,

284
00:13:31,485 --> 00:13:35,205
Speaker 2: I told personally and said, look, get yourself tested. The

285
00:13:35,245 --> 00:13:38,925
Speaker 2: guy from university I did anonymously, So the clinic told

286
00:13:39,005 --> 00:13:43,045
Speaker 2: him on my behalf, because at that time I thought

287
00:13:43,085 --> 00:13:46,525
Speaker 2: if I told him, he would tell everyone at UNI,

288
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Speaker 2: which is not what I wanted when I was about

289
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Speaker 2: to go back to my final year.

290
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Speaker 3: Right, So if they tell him anonymously, did I tell

291
00:13:54,445 --> 00:13:57,285
Speaker 3: him who you are or just that's been in contact

292
00:13:57,285 --> 00:13:57,845
Speaker 3: with someone?

293
00:13:58,365 --> 00:13:59,405
Speaker 2: Just that he's been in contact.

294
00:14:00,365 --> 00:14:03,485
Speaker 3: And the other guy that you told personally, how did

295
00:14:03,525 --> 00:14:04,125
Speaker 3: he take that?

296
00:14:04,765 --> 00:14:08,325
Speaker 2: Incredibly well because he'd already had Bear in mind, I've

297
00:14:08,365 --> 00:14:11,085
Speaker 2: not been with this guy but almost like maybe like

298
00:14:11,165 --> 00:14:13,925
Speaker 2: sixteen months. At this point, he'd already been tested and

299
00:14:13,965 --> 00:14:17,325
Speaker 2: had had negative HIV results, and therefore the chances of

300
00:14:17,405 --> 00:14:20,725
Speaker 2: us passing it back and forth or whatever were very slim.

301
00:14:21,245 --> 00:14:26,765
Speaker 3: Right, and then the conversation with your current boyfriend.

302
00:14:26,325 --> 00:14:30,045
Speaker 2: I think I was very emotionally charged, and I was

303
00:14:30,045 --> 00:14:32,645
Speaker 2: of the opinion I was twenty one, and I thought,

304
00:14:32,805 --> 00:14:36,525
Speaker 2: if it was me and just I have it. And

305
00:14:36,565 --> 00:14:38,685
Speaker 2: I think statistically this is quite well known that it's

306
00:14:38,765 --> 00:14:40,605
Speaker 2: quite hard for a woman to pass it to a man.

307
00:14:40,965 --> 00:14:42,525
Speaker 2: So there was a chance that if I had had

308
00:14:42,525 --> 00:14:44,765
Speaker 2: it for our whole relationship, I may not have passed

309
00:14:44,765 --> 00:14:47,485
Speaker 2: it on to him. And I did say at the time,

310
00:14:47,765 --> 00:14:51,245
Speaker 2: if it's just me, let's break up immediately. Never speak

311
00:14:51,245 --> 00:14:52,885
Speaker 2: to me again. What's about to happen to me is

312
00:14:52,925 --> 00:14:55,005
Speaker 2: going to be horrible, and I don't want you to

313
00:14:55,085 --> 00:15:00,405
Speaker 2: witness this. He ended up also being positive, which then

314
00:15:00,445 --> 00:15:03,605
Speaker 2: poses a question of where did it come from. I

315
00:15:03,645 --> 00:15:09,005
Speaker 2: think the reaction to that from my side, I protected

316
00:15:09,045 --> 00:15:12,005
Speaker 2: him lot. So if my parents ever asked does he

317
00:15:12,085 --> 00:15:14,045
Speaker 2: have it? I was like, it's none of your business.

318
00:15:14,085 --> 00:15:16,125
Speaker 2: Like our only concern as a family should be making

319
00:15:16,165 --> 00:15:18,605
Speaker 2: me better, right, and that's what we focus on. So

320
00:15:18,645 --> 00:15:20,445
Speaker 2: it doesn't matter whether he has it or not. It's

321
00:15:20,445 --> 00:15:23,325
Speaker 2: not a conversation I need to have. He chose a

322
00:15:23,525 --> 00:15:28,045
Speaker 2: different approach and decided to tell people that I had

323
00:15:28,125 --> 00:15:31,205
Speaker 2: given him it, and I did it on purpose, and

324
00:15:31,245 --> 00:15:35,245
Speaker 2: that was kind of a breakdown of our relationship, sure,

325
00:15:35,285 --> 00:15:38,085
Speaker 2: because I was protecting him so much to try and

326
00:15:38,485 --> 00:15:41,565
Speaker 2: soften the blow, and I didn't feel like it's being reciprocated.

327
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Speaker 3: You were saying to your pearents that you were protecting

328
00:15:44,845 --> 00:15:45,205
Speaker 3: the guy.

329
00:15:46,085 --> 00:15:47,085
Speaker 1: Why were you doing that?

330
00:15:47,245 --> 00:15:51,685
Speaker 2: Do you think? I? And it's hard to differential. So

331
00:15:51,685 --> 00:15:53,085
Speaker 2: I'm twenty eight now and I was twenty one at

332
00:15:53,125 --> 00:15:57,245
Speaker 2: the time. I thought he was my soulmate. Right. I

333
00:15:57,845 --> 00:16:00,525
Speaker 2: was so bewilderingly in love with this man that like

334
00:16:00,805 --> 00:16:04,485
Speaker 2: nothing else mattered. So from my perspective, all I wanted

335
00:16:04,485 --> 00:16:06,565
Speaker 2: to do is make a place where if this was

336
00:16:06,605 --> 00:16:09,525
Speaker 2: going to have longevity and continue, I did not want

337
00:16:09,565 --> 00:16:11,085
Speaker 2: him to be in a position of coming to my

338
00:16:11,245 --> 00:16:14,485
Speaker 2: family home and being made to feel like he had

339
00:16:14,525 --> 00:16:18,565
Speaker 2: done something bad. Right, So my immediate reaction was I

340
00:16:18,565 --> 00:16:21,205
Speaker 2: want to shield that because it doesn't matter who did

341
00:16:21,245 --> 00:16:23,285
Speaker 2: what to who. We're in the situation we were in.

342
00:16:24,485 --> 00:16:27,845
Speaker 2: And I think my parents probably sensed that that was

343
00:16:27,885 --> 00:16:29,885
Speaker 2: the case. That I was trying to be very forward

344
00:16:29,925 --> 00:16:31,965
Speaker 2: thinking and being a lot more like, I don't want

345
00:16:32,165 --> 00:16:34,845
Speaker 2: emotional damage for anyone. Really, I want this to be

346
00:16:34,925 --> 00:16:36,605
Speaker 2: like a smooth ride. I wants to be as painless

347
00:16:36,645 --> 00:16:40,605
Speaker 2: as possible, and I just think maybe from his perspective,

348
00:16:41,485 --> 00:16:43,125
Speaker 2: it wasn't seen that way.

349
00:16:44,085 --> 00:16:46,965
Speaker 1: Do you think he knew about himself.

350
00:16:47,125 --> 00:16:49,405
Speaker 2: I don't think he knew he had it. I think

351
00:16:49,445 --> 00:16:54,125
Speaker 2: he may have had suspicions years prior to meeting me.

352
00:16:55,365 --> 00:16:57,525
Speaker 2: So I think from the information that I've had, and

353
00:16:57,605 --> 00:16:59,805
Speaker 2: you never know when you hear like gossip or hearsay,

354
00:17:00,285 --> 00:17:03,845
Speaker 2: I think that perhaps he had an inclination, or he

355
00:17:03,925 --> 00:17:06,325
Speaker 2: had been part of the trace, or something had occurred

356
00:17:06,405 --> 00:17:09,805
Speaker 2: to make him think it could be the case. Had

357
00:17:09,845 --> 00:17:12,845
Speaker 2: never got tested, had never thought this could happen to him,

358
00:17:13,005 --> 00:17:15,045
Speaker 2: and when it all unfolded, I think for him it

359
00:17:15,085 --> 00:17:18,685
Speaker 2: probably felt like everything was falling inwards because all the

360
00:17:18,725 --> 00:17:22,525
Speaker 2: worries he's had before were coming true. And I imagine

361
00:17:22,525 --> 00:17:24,525
Speaker 2: for him that was a lot like it was a

362
00:17:24,605 --> 00:17:27,285
Speaker 2: huge emotional roller coaster. To realize that all the things

363
00:17:27,325 --> 00:17:30,365
Speaker 2: you were saying weren't true are now happening. To then

364
00:17:30,365 --> 00:17:33,125
Speaker 2: have affected someone else that you care about probably was

365
00:17:33,205 --> 00:17:33,925
Speaker 2: quite hard.

366
00:17:34,925 --> 00:17:37,005
Speaker 3: I don't understand. I imagine I'm like a lot of

367
00:17:37,045 --> 00:17:42,325
Speaker 3: people in this regard. Yeah, so you've come back HIV positive.

368
00:17:43,805 --> 00:17:47,645
Speaker 3: What is the link with HIV positive an aids.

369
00:17:47,885 --> 00:17:51,565
Speaker 2: So they are two separate things. HIV itself is a virus,

370
00:17:51,725 --> 00:17:53,645
Speaker 2: so that is the virus you get, So that is

371
00:17:54,125 --> 00:17:56,925
Speaker 2: it basically affects your immune system and it will attack

372
00:17:57,045 --> 00:18:00,445
Speaker 2: directly your immune system selves and replicate. It replicates to

373
00:18:00,485 --> 00:18:02,765
Speaker 2: a point where your immune system will start to degrade

374
00:18:03,125 --> 00:18:05,765
Speaker 2: because your immunitist was being taken over by HIV cells

375
00:18:05,765 --> 00:18:08,925
Speaker 2: instead of replicating as immune system cells. So if you

376
00:18:09,005 --> 00:18:11,525
Speaker 2: imagine that your immune system themselves are like a little

377
00:18:11,565 --> 00:18:13,845
Speaker 2: factory and what they do every day is normally your

378
00:18:13,845 --> 00:18:16,325
Speaker 2: immune system will then just pop out. Now immune system

379
00:18:16,365 --> 00:18:19,805
Speaker 2: selves every day. HV is smart enough, it infects that

380
00:18:19,925 --> 00:18:23,885
Speaker 2: cell and instead of reproducing immune systems, it reproduces HIV,

381
00:18:24,845 --> 00:18:27,325
Speaker 2: which is what causes the virus to become very damaging

382
00:18:27,365 --> 00:18:29,765
Speaker 2: in a person's body because your immune system will drop

383
00:18:29,805 --> 00:18:33,125
Speaker 2: and the virus will increase. At the point that the

384
00:18:33,205 --> 00:18:36,405
Speaker 2: virus gets to a certain level, you reach a point

385
00:18:36,405 --> 00:18:39,245
Speaker 2: that you have no immune system to fight off any infection.

386
00:18:39,405 --> 00:18:42,845
Speaker 2: So whether that's tonsilitis thrush or even like the sarcoma's

387
00:18:42,885 --> 00:18:46,325
Speaker 2: we know from the eighties skin cancers, at that point

388
00:18:46,365 --> 00:18:49,725
Speaker 2: it's what you call acquired immuno deficiency. So your immune

389
00:18:49,725 --> 00:18:53,125
Speaker 2: system is now that compromised that you cannot fight off

390
00:18:53,565 --> 00:18:56,285
Speaker 2: and that is when you develop what they call AIDS.

391
00:18:57,005 --> 00:19:02,285
Speaker 3: But now there's medication that can prevent HIV becoming AIDS.

392
00:19:02,605 --> 00:19:05,885
Speaker 2: Yeah, so, especially in the UK, and I think it's

393
00:19:05,885 --> 00:19:09,805
Speaker 2: the same in Australia. Now there's not really any level

394
00:19:10,085 --> 00:19:13,205
Speaker 2: of degradation to your immune system that you can't come

395
00:19:13,205 --> 00:19:15,805
Speaker 2: back from. The medication is that powerful that even if so,

396
00:19:15,885 --> 00:19:18,925
Speaker 2: a normal person like you will have about one thousand,

397
00:19:19,045 --> 00:19:23,125
Speaker 2: six hundred per mili liter immune system cells. Someone living

398
00:19:23,125 --> 00:19:25,925
Speaker 2: with HIV typically has between eight hundred to one thousand.

399
00:19:26,005 --> 00:19:28,125
Speaker 2: It can go higher, but that's normally where you float

400
00:19:28,685 --> 00:19:31,685
Speaker 2: if you get below two hundred. That's what the classes

401
00:19:31,885 --> 00:19:35,445
Speaker 2: AIDS back in the eighties. Even if you get below

402
00:19:35,485 --> 00:19:37,965
Speaker 2: two hundred, now you can come back up because the

403
00:19:38,005 --> 00:19:40,525
Speaker 2: medication is so fantastic it can still cure it and

404
00:19:40,525 --> 00:19:43,765
Speaker 2: get your immune system better. You could have long lasting

405
00:19:43,765 --> 00:19:46,925
Speaker 2: issues if you've had if you've developed like a lung cancer,

406
00:19:46,925 --> 00:19:49,565
Speaker 2: a skin cancer of course, is to have long lasting damage.

407
00:19:50,045 --> 00:19:53,605
Speaker 2: But in most developed countries AIDS doesn't typically happen anymore.

408
00:20:00,405 --> 00:20:03,685
Speaker 3: After this short break, we go back to the bench

409
00:20:03,885 --> 00:20:08,645
Speaker 3: that alla set on after she was diagnosed and find

410
00:20:08,645 --> 00:20:17,805
Speaker 3: out what happened next. We'll be right back. Let's go

411
00:20:17,925 --> 00:20:20,285
Speaker 3: back to that moment. You didn't know any of this thing.

412
00:20:20,805 --> 00:20:24,125
Speaker 3: You're waiting for your parents, the first moment that you

413
00:20:24,165 --> 00:20:25,365
Speaker 3: saw your parents.

414
00:20:25,845 --> 00:20:27,565
Speaker 1: Where were you and how is that moment?

415
00:20:28,365 --> 00:20:31,005
Speaker 2: So I had still been sat on this bench by

416
00:20:31,005 --> 00:20:33,485
Speaker 2: a canal. My best friend at this point had got

417
00:20:33,525 --> 00:20:37,085
Speaker 2: to me, and I had cried probably for about three hours,

418
00:20:37,605 --> 00:20:39,285
Speaker 2: to the point that every time I ran out of

419
00:20:39,285 --> 00:20:41,325
Speaker 2: beer or cigarettes, I kept sending her back to the

420
00:20:41,365 --> 00:20:42,405
Speaker 2: shop and I was like.

421
00:20:42,485 --> 00:20:44,725
Speaker 1: Just keep me going.

422
00:20:47,085 --> 00:20:50,325
Speaker 2: Yeah. When my mum and dad got there, I made

423
00:20:50,325 --> 00:20:52,645
Speaker 2: a decision that I didn't want them to see me

424
00:20:52,765 --> 00:20:58,085
Speaker 2: cry because I'd already had such kind of emotional conversations

425
00:20:58,125 --> 00:20:59,645
Speaker 2: with them while they were driving that I was like,

426
00:20:59,725 --> 00:21:02,525
Speaker 2: I don't want them to leave. So I lived in Birmingham,

427
00:21:02,565 --> 00:21:04,805
Speaker 2: they live in Lincoln shel which about another three hour

428
00:21:04,885 --> 00:21:06,645
Speaker 2: drive away, and I was like, they've got to go

429
00:21:06,725 --> 00:21:10,085
Speaker 2: home tonight, and I don't want them to leave worried.

430
00:21:10,325 --> 00:21:11,685
Speaker 2: So I was like, by the time they get here,

431
00:21:11,725 --> 00:21:13,725
Speaker 2: I just I don't want to shed a tear. I

432
00:21:13,765 --> 00:21:17,205
Speaker 2: just want to have a very adult conversation about what's happening.

433
00:21:18,005 --> 00:21:19,885
Speaker 2: So I kind of met them as if we were

434
00:21:19,965 --> 00:21:22,685
Speaker 2: just going for like a normal drink or dinner.

435
00:21:23,805 --> 00:21:26,645
Speaker 3: How are they had they also made the same resolve

436
00:21:26,765 --> 00:21:29,245
Speaker 3: or were they just picking up their cues from you?

437
00:21:29,845 --> 00:21:31,685
Speaker 2: I think a lot of it was picking up cues

438
00:21:31,725 --> 00:21:33,925
Speaker 2: for me. So immediately they took me to the pub,

439
00:21:34,725 --> 00:21:37,325
Speaker 2: which I think a lot of people it sounds like

440
00:21:37,365 --> 00:21:39,485
Speaker 2: they were trying to drown my stories. For us as

441
00:21:39,485 --> 00:21:41,245
Speaker 2: a family, it's a very normal place for us to

442
00:21:41,285 --> 00:21:43,325
Speaker 2: have gone anyway, like we would normally just go to

443
00:21:43,365 --> 00:21:45,885
Speaker 2: the pub. We went and sat in a beer garden.

444
00:21:46,445 --> 00:21:50,285
Speaker 2: They are anti smokers to the limit, so I apologize

445
00:21:50,325 --> 00:21:53,245
Speaker 2: to be like, I'm sorry I today, I just I

446
00:21:53,325 --> 00:21:58,165
Speaker 2: need to do this. We sat down and we were trying.

447
00:21:58,205 --> 00:22:00,285
Speaker 2: I think we were all avoiding the topic, so we

448
00:22:00,285 --> 00:22:03,525
Speaker 2: weren't talking about HIV at all, and my dad all

449
00:22:03,565 --> 00:22:06,245
Speaker 2: of a sudden it's like laughing, like really really laughing

450
00:22:06,285 --> 00:22:08,325
Speaker 2: to himself because I think every now and then I'm

451
00:22:08,365 --> 00:22:11,085
Speaker 2: like just like wiping a little tier, and my Dad's like, oh, like,

452
00:22:11,205 --> 00:22:14,685
Speaker 2: Elliott's really important if you'd stay positive. I was like,

453
00:22:16,005 --> 00:22:17,005
Speaker 2: not really that far?

454
00:22:18,165 --> 00:22:20,965
Speaker 1: Did he mean that he meant the joke.

455
00:22:23,885 --> 00:22:26,445
Speaker 3: And then was that like an icebreaker or do you

456
00:22:27,565 --> 00:22:32,765
Speaker 3: Then it opened the flatgates of your diagnosis and what

457
00:22:32,805 --> 00:22:34,805
Speaker 3: it meant and what happens next?

458
00:22:35,445 --> 00:22:36,685
Speaker 1: What does happen next?

459
00:22:37,445 --> 00:22:39,405
Speaker 2: So for me, I got diagnosed in just like a

460
00:22:39,405 --> 00:22:42,085
Speaker 2: normal sexual health clinic the next day, so we've got

461
00:22:42,125 --> 00:22:44,525
Speaker 2: diagnosed on Monday. The next day they sent me to

462
00:22:44,565 --> 00:22:47,645
Speaker 2: a HIV clinic. So I woke up at nine o'clock

463
00:22:47,685 --> 00:22:50,125
Speaker 2: in the morning, went to this HIV clinic. And as

464
00:22:50,125 --> 00:22:53,885
Speaker 2: I walked into this clinic, they told me that there

465
00:22:53,925 --> 00:22:55,725
Speaker 2: was like formalities we needed to do and they're like,

466
00:22:55,765 --> 00:22:57,725
Speaker 2: you need to do a prick test. So that's a

467
00:22:57,725 --> 00:23:00,165
Speaker 2: test where you prick your finger. It goes on kind

468
00:23:00,205 --> 00:23:01,965
Speaker 2: of like the COVID test where you know you used

469
00:23:02,005 --> 00:23:03,605
Speaker 2: to like drip on it and within like ten minutes

470
00:23:03,605 --> 00:23:06,405
Speaker 2: you'd have a result. There's a HIV test similar to that.

471
00:23:06,925 --> 00:23:08,725
Speaker 2: So they told me I needed to do this test.

472
00:23:08,925 --> 00:23:11,285
Speaker 2: And my head has gone if I need to do

473
00:23:11,325 --> 00:23:12,525
Speaker 2: a test, I might not have.

474
00:23:12,485 --> 00:23:15,085
Speaker 1: It right yes, And I was like.

475
00:23:15,645 --> 00:23:17,325
Speaker 2: The only reason the test to me is because they're

476
00:23:17,325 --> 00:23:22,285
Speaker 2: not sure which down. But I convinced myself that the

477
00:23:22,325 --> 00:23:24,485
Speaker 2: reason they were asking these questions is because like they

478
00:23:24,845 --> 00:23:26,685
Speaker 2: you know, they weren't sure either, and I was like,

479
00:23:26,685 --> 00:23:29,005
Speaker 2: oh great, like this is an error. This is what

480
00:23:29,045 --> 00:23:32,125
Speaker 2: I've been looking for for like the last twenty four hours. Fantastic. Obviously,

481
00:23:32,165 --> 00:23:35,205
Speaker 2: as soon as I pricked my finger, They've gone are positive.

482
00:23:36,245 --> 00:23:38,445
Speaker 2: And I was like, well, I just went let's do

483
00:23:38,445 --> 00:23:38,765
Speaker 2: it again?

484
00:23:39,565 --> 00:23:40,325
Speaker 1: What did they say?

485
00:23:40,445 --> 00:23:41,965
Speaker 2: I was so defiant. I was like, let's just do

486
00:23:42,005 --> 00:23:43,565
Speaker 2: it again, like I'm sure it's an.

487
00:23:43,565 --> 00:23:46,005
Speaker 1: Error, right. Did they do it again?

488
00:23:46,045 --> 00:23:48,845
Speaker 2: And then we did it about yeah three times?

489
00:23:49,045 --> 00:23:50,845
Speaker 1: Oh really yeah?

490
00:23:50,885 --> 00:23:53,565
Speaker 2: And then on the third time the nurse apologized. It

491
00:23:53,645 --> 00:23:56,205
Speaker 2: was like I'm really sorry. We can't. She was like

492
00:23:56,245 --> 00:23:58,565
Speaker 2: I can't let this keep going on, like we're going

493
00:23:58,645 --> 00:24:01,285
Speaker 2: to have to at one point accept it. And then

494
00:24:01,325 --> 00:24:04,005
Speaker 2: from that point on, they took blood from my arm,

495
00:24:04,405 --> 00:24:06,845
Speaker 2: spoke to me about the medication I could take, and

496
00:24:06,885 --> 00:24:09,125
Speaker 2: again I think I then got over excited because they

497
00:24:09,125 --> 00:24:11,605
Speaker 2: were like, what I'd call it is like a magic pill,

498
00:24:12,125 --> 00:24:13,685
Speaker 2: and they were like, there says tablet you can take

499
00:24:13,725 --> 00:24:15,805
Speaker 2: that will suppress the virus. It means you can't pass

500
00:24:15,805 --> 00:24:17,405
Speaker 2: it on. And I was like, give me it a

501
00:24:17,445 --> 00:24:19,245
Speaker 2: media na, like now I want it now.

502
00:24:19,405 --> 00:24:21,765
Speaker 1: Yeah, and there a ten dose.

503
00:24:22,805 --> 00:24:25,565
Speaker 2: Yeah. They were like, we can't give you it now

504
00:24:25,885 --> 00:24:29,005
Speaker 2: because you have to go through like genetic screening. We

505
00:24:29,045 --> 00:24:31,605
Speaker 2: need to test of your hb's resistance to anything, et cetera,

506
00:24:31,645 --> 00:24:34,845
Speaker 2: et cetera. And I was so defiant. I was like no.

507
00:24:34,925 --> 00:24:38,085
Speaker 2: I was like, I can't go two weeks waiting for

508
00:24:38,125 --> 00:24:40,285
Speaker 2: a doctor to look at results to have this pill,

509
00:24:40,325 --> 00:24:43,405
Speaker 2: like I need it. So I left on the Tuesday

510
00:24:43,485 --> 00:24:46,605
Speaker 2: without tablets and I was distraught. So the hospital is

511
00:24:46,605 --> 00:24:49,205
Speaker 2: about three miles from my house and I walked there

512
00:24:49,285 --> 00:24:52,005
Speaker 2: every day and back on the phone to my dad

513
00:24:52,085 --> 00:24:53,685
Speaker 2: crying being like I don't know why they're doing this

514
00:24:53,685 --> 00:24:56,245
Speaker 2: to me, Like I just want the tablet, and they

515
00:24:56,405 --> 00:24:58,365
Speaker 2: took pity on me. So by the Wednesday, I got

516
00:24:58,365 --> 00:24:59,525
Speaker 2: a call and they were like, if you want to

517
00:24:59,525 --> 00:25:01,325
Speaker 2: come in now, we're going to give you some meds.

518
00:25:01,445 --> 00:25:05,085
Speaker 2: And I was like, oh, Tony Grail Wow.

519
00:25:05,405 --> 00:25:09,565
Speaker 1: And in the meantime, are you because you did have

520
00:25:09,605 --> 00:25:10,685
Speaker 1: any symptoms at all?

521
00:25:11,325 --> 00:25:13,765
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you were in the.

522
00:25:13,725 --> 00:25:15,485
Speaker 1: Rudest of good health.

523
00:25:16,365 --> 00:25:19,285
Speaker 3: Were you doing this mental inventory of yourself all the time,

524
00:25:19,445 --> 00:25:20,885
Speaker 3: like is this seat?

525
00:25:21,205 --> 00:25:21,885
Speaker 2: Is that?

526
00:25:21,925 --> 00:25:23,925
Speaker 1: Have I got a cough? Have I?

527
00:25:24,285 --> 00:25:28,565
Speaker 3: Were you very internal at that point in your own body.

528
00:25:29,285 --> 00:25:34,445
Speaker 2: Yeah, and no, I think that in hindsight, I didn't

529
00:25:34,445 --> 00:25:36,485
Speaker 2: have symptoms at the time. In hindsight, now I know

530
00:25:36,645 --> 00:25:40,725
Speaker 2: HIV well enough. I did present with symptoms that I

531
00:25:40,885 --> 00:25:45,165
Speaker 2: just wasn't aware of. So I had I'm six foot

532
00:25:45,165 --> 00:25:50,125
Speaker 2: tall and I had dropped to about fifty kilos in weight, which.

533
00:25:49,885 --> 00:25:54,205
Speaker 1: Is oh stick thin, right, Yes.

534
00:25:54,165 --> 00:25:56,365
Speaker 2: And I just kind of boiled it down to I

535
00:25:56,405 --> 00:25:58,605
Speaker 2: was working at a fashion company, I was drinking a lot,

536
00:25:58,645 --> 00:26:00,925
Speaker 2: I was skipping dinner, and I was like, look, that's

537
00:26:00,965 --> 00:26:03,685
Speaker 2: just what it was. And obviously, in hindsight it is

538
00:26:03,845 --> 00:26:07,445
Speaker 2: one of the symptoms of HIV is wasting and I

539
00:26:07,485 --> 00:26:12,085
Speaker 2: have really wasted away. And so my CD four, which

540
00:26:12,125 --> 00:26:14,005
Speaker 2: is your immune system at the time when I got tested,

541
00:26:14,125 --> 00:26:17,725
Speaker 2: was about eighty So I was below the threshold of

542
00:26:17,725 --> 00:26:21,165
Speaker 2: what they were in the eighties classes aids right, And

543
00:26:21,245 --> 00:26:24,205
Speaker 2: I was probably weeks off being deathly sick. And I

544
00:26:24,245 --> 00:26:25,085
Speaker 2: had no idea.

545
00:26:26,125 --> 00:26:27,925
Speaker 3: And when you say you had no ideas, so your

546
00:26:27,925 --> 00:26:31,125
Speaker 3: life was you were living your life normally because you

547
00:26:31,125 --> 00:26:33,565
Speaker 3: said the time of your life and going out and

548
00:26:33,605 --> 00:26:39,405
Speaker 3: having this great job and big circle of friends, I was.

549
00:26:39,485 --> 00:26:41,965
Speaker 2: I think it was just like I was blindsided, Like

550
00:26:42,525 --> 00:26:44,405
Speaker 2: I also never thought and I think a lot of

551
00:26:44,405 --> 00:26:46,845
Speaker 2: women think this. I didn't think it could ever happen

552
00:26:46,925 --> 00:26:50,165
Speaker 2: to me, Like I didn't know that HIV affected straight

553
00:26:50,205 --> 00:26:53,765
Speaker 2: people because I was so incorrectly of the assumption that

554
00:26:53,885 --> 00:26:56,405
Speaker 2: was like a gay disease that I had never even

555
00:26:56,485 --> 00:26:57,925
Speaker 2: put any of it together.

556
00:26:58,885 --> 00:27:01,965
Speaker 3: But so at this point, so they've started giving you

557
00:27:02,005 --> 00:27:06,525
Speaker 3: the meds. Yeah, and what does that mean? How often

558
00:27:06,565 --> 00:27:08,005
Speaker 3: are you taking them?

559
00:27:08,405 --> 00:27:10,445
Speaker 1: Is it daily? Is it once?

560
00:27:11,445 --> 00:27:13,885
Speaker 3: What happens? What's your regimen with it?

561
00:27:14,325 --> 00:27:16,525
Speaker 2: When I first got diagnosed, the tablets that gave me

562
00:27:16,565 --> 00:27:20,925
Speaker 2: immediately was two pills once a day. I then after

563
00:27:20,965 --> 00:27:22,965
Speaker 2: two weeks when I spoke to a doctor, swapped to

564
00:27:23,165 --> 00:27:26,605
Speaker 2: one pill once a day. I've recently swapped back to

565
00:27:26,645 --> 00:27:29,645
Speaker 2: two pills once a day. But other than that, that's

566
00:27:29,765 --> 00:27:32,445
Speaker 2: it in terms of treatment regime, Like that's all you do.

567
00:27:32,605 --> 00:27:34,965
Speaker 2: It's just two pills a day.

568
00:27:35,085 --> 00:27:40,405
Speaker 1: So you going magic pill is kind of right? Yeah?

569
00:27:40,445 --> 00:27:45,725
Speaker 3: And then how long before you started to feel more

570
00:27:45,845 --> 00:27:46,605
Speaker 3: like yourself?

571
00:27:46,845 --> 00:27:49,165
Speaker 2: The big target for people living with HIV is something

572
00:27:49,165 --> 00:27:52,685
Speaker 2: that we call undetectable. So undetectable is when so your

573
00:27:52,805 --> 00:27:54,965
Speaker 2: viral loads, So you get two tests when you get

574
00:27:55,005 --> 00:27:57,525
Speaker 2: diners HV your CD four, which is your immune system

575
00:27:57,565 --> 00:28:00,525
Speaker 2: that we've talked about, and your viral load. Your CD

576
00:28:00,605 --> 00:28:03,045
Speaker 2: four often will drop low when you have HIV, and

577
00:28:03,085 --> 00:28:05,285
Speaker 2: then you can build that back up. Your viral load

578
00:28:05,365 --> 00:28:07,565
Speaker 2: is the level of potency of the virus in your blood.

579
00:28:08,365 --> 00:28:10,365
Speaker 2: What you want to do is drop that viral load

580
00:28:10,445 --> 00:28:14,725
Speaker 2: below fifty counts per million. Once you drop below fifty,

581
00:28:15,165 --> 00:28:18,165
Speaker 2: you are classed as undetectable. What that means is, in

582
00:28:18,245 --> 00:28:20,805
Speaker 2: normal blood tests, you cannot detect the HIV virus in

583
00:28:20,805 --> 00:28:23,885
Speaker 2: your blood anymore. It also means you are unable to

584
00:28:23,925 --> 00:28:27,525
Speaker 2: pass the virus on through sexual contact, through breastfeeding, through

585
00:28:27,565 --> 00:28:30,925
Speaker 2: having children, and that's the target you weigh for when

586
00:28:30,925 --> 00:28:34,965
Speaker 2: you're first diagnosed. So I was diagnosed on the twentieth

587
00:28:35,005 --> 00:28:39,565
Speaker 2: of August. I first got told I was undetectable mid September.

588
00:28:40,205 --> 00:28:43,445
Speaker 1: Oh so that quickly, yeah? And is that a usual

589
00:28:43,685 --> 00:28:46,525
Speaker 1: progression or was that particularly good?

590
00:28:46,725 --> 00:28:49,845
Speaker 2: It's pretty common. What they normally say is before you

591
00:28:49,925 --> 00:28:53,045
Speaker 2: ever have any encounter of unprotected sex, you should wait

592
00:28:53,125 --> 00:28:55,565
Speaker 2: six months from being told you're undetectable, just to make

593
00:28:55,605 --> 00:28:57,925
Speaker 2: sure that level holds where it needs to be. And

594
00:28:57,965 --> 00:29:01,245
Speaker 2: then you're one hundred percent safe. But typically these tablets

595
00:29:01,285 --> 00:29:05,485
Speaker 2: are impressive, like they are as magic as we talk about,

596
00:29:05,525 --> 00:29:07,885
Speaker 2: and they can just car crash you to the floor.

597
00:29:09,325 --> 00:29:13,325
Speaker 3: Okay, So at this point, so mid siptimber, where are

598
00:29:13,365 --> 00:29:16,005
Speaker 3: you in your life? Was he still your boyfriend then?

599
00:29:16,125 --> 00:29:18,205
Speaker 3: Or was your breakup pretty immediate?

600
00:29:18,685 --> 00:29:21,965
Speaker 2: We just broken up, so I think it was about

601
00:29:21,965 --> 00:29:25,325
Speaker 2: a week before that we fully cut ties, no contact

602
00:29:25,365 --> 00:29:29,365
Speaker 2: at all, and I had just moved back into university

603
00:29:29,405 --> 00:29:31,325
Speaker 2: halls ready to start my final year.

604
00:29:32,245 --> 00:29:33,525
Speaker 1: Wow, how was that?

605
00:29:33,925 --> 00:29:37,445
Speaker 2: I didn't want anyone to know, so I wanted it

606
00:29:37,445 --> 00:29:39,565
Speaker 2: to be a secret. So other than my best friend

607
00:29:39,605 --> 00:29:41,405
Speaker 2: didn't go to university. I met her because we worked

608
00:29:41,445 --> 00:29:43,685
Speaker 2: for the same bar and my mum and dad. No

609
00:29:43,685 --> 00:29:47,405
Speaker 2: one else knew, and I'd kept it a secret during

610
00:29:47,645 --> 00:29:50,245
Speaker 2: fresh As Week. So although fresher week I was supposed

611
00:29:50,245 --> 00:29:51,925
Speaker 2: to be for first years, obviously, every year goes out

612
00:29:51,925 --> 00:29:55,565
Speaker 2: with parties. I'd gone to a party in fresh As

613
00:29:55,605 --> 00:29:59,845
Speaker 2: Week and a boy had tried to kiss me and

614
00:29:59,885 --> 00:30:02,685
Speaker 2: take me to his room, and I had panicked because

615
00:30:02,685 --> 00:30:04,925
Speaker 2: it was like my first male contacts and at that

616
00:30:04,925 --> 00:30:09,125
Speaker 2: point I felt so dirty and so like shameful that

617
00:30:09,205 --> 00:30:12,005
Speaker 2: I I freaked out and I told him I had HIV.

618
00:30:12,645 --> 00:30:15,085
Speaker 2: It's like he'd walked me up to his room, and

619
00:30:15,165 --> 00:30:17,525
Speaker 2: I kind of thought it was just like a let's

620
00:30:17,525 --> 00:30:19,485
Speaker 2: have a private chat. Obviously we've known each other for

621
00:30:19,485 --> 00:30:20,885
Speaker 2: like three years, and I thought it was just like

622
00:30:20,925 --> 00:30:22,445
Speaker 2: catching up. And as soon as it got to a

623
00:30:22,485 --> 00:30:26,085
Speaker 2: stage of being like anything sexual, I freaked and I

624
00:30:26,085 --> 00:30:27,565
Speaker 2: was like, I'm really sorry. I've just been told I'm

625
00:30:27,645 --> 00:30:32,485
Speaker 2: HIV positive. I've then gone into full panic and have

626
00:30:32,805 --> 00:30:34,925
Speaker 2: ran immediately home to find one of my friends that

627
00:30:35,005 --> 00:30:36,565
Speaker 2: you need to be like, I'm really sorry, but I'm

628
00:30:36,605 --> 00:30:41,285
Speaker 2: also HIV positive, Thank the Lord. Her dad basically works

629
00:30:41,325 --> 00:30:45,725
Speaker 2: in pharmacy, so she knew all about HIV meds and

630
00:30:45,765 --> 00:30:47,485
Speaker 2: she was like, you're gonna be fine, And I was like,

631
00:30:47,685 --> 00:30:49,165
Speaker 2: this is really refreshing.

632
00:30:53,565 --> 00:30:55,485
Speaker 1: Wow. Yeah, that is a blassing, isn't it.

633
00:30:55,605 --> 00:30:58,845
Speaker 2: Yeah, because she took it so well, I think over

634
00:30:58,845 --> 00:31:02,205
Speaker 2: the next eight months, I told maybe ten people and

635
00:31:02,245 --> 00:31:04,045
Speaker 2: I'd had this conversation. I was like, just please don't

636
00:31:04,045 --> 00:31:06,045
Speaker 2: tell anyone, like, let's just keep it with us, like

637
00:31:06,085 --> 00:31:08,485
Speaker 2: I'm all right. Like a lot of them had cried

638
00:31:08,525 --> 00:31:11,765
Speaker 2: when I told them. It was quite like traumatic. We

639
00:31:11,805 --> 00:31:14,085
Speaker 2: then end up in a pub one Sunday as you

640
00:31:14,245 --> 00:31:16,245
Speaker 2: was like Uni students, everyone's just like random me in

641
00:31:16,245 --> 00:31:19,245
Speaker 2: a pub on a Sunday and one of his friends

642
00:31:19,365 --> 00:31:21,845
Speaker 2: came over to me and was like, are you okay?

643
00:31:22,125 --> 00:31:23,885
Speaker 2: And I was like, yeah, I'm fine, and he was like, oh,

644
00:31:23,925 --> 00:31:25,605
Speaker 2: we know you're going through a lot, Like are you

645
00:31:25,605 --> 00:31:28,605
Speaker 2: sure you're all right? And it was like a light

646
00:31:28,645 --> 00:31:31,605
Speaker 2: bulb moment or I'm like you all know?

647
00:31:33,125 --> 00:31:33,965
Speaker 1: Oh, everybody?

648
00:31:33,965 --> 00:31:39,405
Speaker 2: And it turns out that he had told everyone and

649
00:31:39,685 --> 00:31:41,645
Speaker 2: everyone at university. What it felt like to me is

650
00:31:41,685 --> 00:31:44,165
Speaker 2: like everyone in the city of Birmingham knew I had

651
00:31:44,325 --> 00:31:46,125
Speaker 2: HIV at that point because I felt like I couldn't

652
00:31:46,165 --> 00:31:49,045
Speaker 2: walk anywhere that people staring at me, and they weren't

653
00:31:49,085 --> 00:31:51,245
Speaker 2: saying that like Ellie can't pass it on this, that

654
00:31:51,285 --> 00:31:52,925
Speaker 2: and the other. She's doing so well. It's been like

655
00:31:52,965 --> 00:31:55,165
Speaker 2: eight months. They were saying, like, Ellie's got an sci

656
00:31:55,245 --> 00:31:56,525
Speaker 2: Ellie's got aids.

657
00:31:57,245 --> 00:32:02,085
Speaker 3: Be careful in the retrospect of knowing that they'd all known,

658
00:32:04,165 --> 00:32:07,485
Speaker 3: had they treated you differently than they had previously.

659
00:32:08,165 --> 00:32:12,885
Speaker 2: I think people had actively avoided me. You're right, chose

660
00:32:12,925 --> 00:32:15,005
Speaker 2: to not to share drinks or sit next to me,

661
00:32:15,325 --> 00:32:19,685
Speaker 2: or kept me at a distance. Some people had obviously

662
00:32:19,845 --> 00:32:21,805
Speaker 2: tooken pity and gone like the opposite way and have

663
00:32:21,845 --> 00:32:25,205
Speaker 2: been tried to be like overly caring. But from that

664
00:32:25,245 --> 00:32:28,365
Speaker 2: point I basically made the decision. I was sat there

665
00:32:28,405 --> 00:32:30,045
Speaker 2: one day and I was like, I feel like HIV

666
00:32:30,245 --> 00:32:32,645
Speaker 2: is tattooed on my forehead, Like I cannot walk around

667
00:32:32,725 --> 00:32:35,845
Speaker 2: campus without feeling anyone is talking about it. So I

668
00:32:35,885 --> 00:32:38,125
Speaker 2: got a positive symbol tattooed on my middle finger.

669
00:32:39,525 --> 00:32:40,125
Speaker 1: Ah.

670
00:32:40,445 --> 00:32:42,525
Speaker 2: Yeah, because I was just a union I was like,

671
00:32:42,525 --> 00:32:43,965
Speaker 2: can you'll just leave me alone?

672
00:32:44,805 --> 00:32:48,725
Speaker 3: Ye're right, your dad would like the positive the positive symbol.

673
00:32:52,845 --> 00:32:56,205
Speaker 3: There's still so much more to Ellie's story. In just

674
00:32:56,205 --> 00:32:59,285
Speaker 3: a minute, we'll talk about her decision to reveal her

675
00:32:59,365 --> 00:33:07,245
Speaker 3: diagnosis on live TV. Where you are now, I find

676
00:33:07,565 --> 00:33:14,325
Speaker 3: so remarkable, thank you, because this is a thing about secrecy,

677
00:33:15,085 --> 00:33:19,245
Speaker 3: and as you alluded to before earlier, this you feel dirty,

678
00:33:19,445 --> 00:33:24,365
Speaker 3: you feel ashamed, and our tendencies to keep that to ourselves.

679
00:33:24,685 --> 00:33:28,085
Speaker 3: But at some point, and maybe it was the point

680
00:33:28,125 --> 00:33:32,245
Speaker 3: of the tattoo and what that represented, you decided that

681
00:33:32,325 --> 00:33:36,765
Speaker 3: you were going to step into the truth of your situation.

682
00:33:37,165 --> 00:33:39,805
Speaker 2: Yeah. I got diagnosed in twenty eighteen. I got this

683
00:33:39,925 --> 00:33:43,765
Speaker 2: tattoo in twenty nineteen. I did not publicly speak about

684
00:33:43,925 --> 00:33:47,445
Speaker 2: HIV in two until twenty twenty one. I'd graduated UNI,

685
00:33:47,605 --> 00:33:50,485
Speaker 2: I'd gone into work, and it felt like this big

686
00:33:50,605 --> 00:33:55,285
Speaker 2: secret came back. So although having my like HIV diagnosis

687
00:33:55,285 --> 00:33:58,045
Speaker 2: and exposed at university was awful, well, it actually was

688
00:33:58,205 --> 00:34:02,565
Speaker 2: quite freeing because I could talk about it because I

689
00:34:02,685 --> 00:34:04,445
Speaker 2: evere already knew, so like I didn't have to keep

690
00:34:04,445 --> 00:34:07,605
Speaker 2: it a secret anymore. When I went into work. It

691
00:34:07,725 --> 00:34:10,885
Speaker 2: became this thing of I was constantly keeping up with

692
00:34:10,925 --> 00:34:13,165
Speaker 2: a lie of like what excuse have I made for this?

693
00:34:13,325 --> 00:34:15,325
Speaker 2: What have I lied about this tablet being so I

694
00:34:15,365 --> 00:34:17,925
Speaker 2: take my tablet at lunch time and people would always

695
00:34:17,925 --> 00:34:19,525
Speaker 2: be like, oh, what's that alarm for? And I'm like,

696
00:34:19,525 --> 00:34:22,245
Speaker 2: oh god, I've got this like immune thing. And it

697
00:34:22,245 --> 00:34:26,125
Speaker 2: became such a hard task to maintain the secret that

698
00:34:26,205 --> 00:34:30,045
Speaker 2: it felt so heavy and so like weighty. And I'd

699
00:34:30,125 --> 00:34:32,845
Speaker 2: always admired people that spoke about HREV. I was always like,

700
00:34:32,845 --> 00:34:34,725
Speaker 2: oh my god, I would when I'm strong enough. And

701
00:34:35,045 --> 00:34:37,205
Speaker 2: the first day got diagnosed, my dad said he was like,

702
00:34:37,245 --> 00:34:39,645
Speaker 2: one day she will scream this from the rooftops. He

703
00:34:39,725 --> 00:34:41,325
Speaker 2: was like, she will do it well, just let her

704
00:34:41,405 --> 00:34:44,405
Speaker 2: really let her get there. So for World Age's Day

705
00:34:44,405 --> 00:34:46,765
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty one, I made the decision to put

706
00:34:46,765 --> 00:34:50,285
Speaker 2: a video on YouTube. Originally it was just I went

707
00:34:50,325 --> 00:34:53,045
Speaker 2: on my personal Facebook and it was just it's a

708
00:34:53,125 --> 00:34:54,925
Speaker 2: very It doesn't talk about where I got it from

709
00:34:55,005 --> 00:34:57,085
Speaker 2: or anything like that. It just talks about me living

710
00:34:57,085 --> 00:35:00,725
Speaker 2: with HIV, what HIV is. And the response was so

711
00:35:00,765 --> 00:35:03,765
Speaker 2: overwhelming I moved it to YouTube, which now has like

712
00:35:03,765 --> 00:35:07,045
Speaker 2: two hundred thousand views or something crazy. From that, I

713
00:35:07,165 --> 00:35:10,285
Speaker 2: then found HIV charities or they found me, and I

714
00:35:10,325 --> 00:35:13,805
Speaker 2: started getting into activism and it's now become such like

715
00:35:13,885 --> 00:35:16,885
Speaker 2: a force of life, Like it's like my pub I

716
00:35:16,885 --> 00:35:18,725
Speaker 2: think it's like my purpose in life now that like

717
00:35:18,765 --> 00:35:21,125
Speaker 2: I just it put such a fire in my belly.

718
00:35:22,125 --> 00:35:25,085
Speaker 3: Had you tipped off anyone at work? So you you're

719
00:35:25,085 --> 00:35:27,685
Speaker 3: at that point kind of keeping this secret and then you.

720
00:35:27,685 --> 00:35:29,925
Speaker 1: Do you do the vlog?

721
00:35:30,605 --> 00:35:30,885
Speaker 2: Yeah?

722
00:35:31,125 --> 00:35:34,765
Speaker 3: About had were people at work prepared for that?

723
00:35:34,925 --> 00:35:36,405
Speaker 1: Did you think that would say it?

724
00:35:37,685 --> 00:35:39,805
Speaker 2: Yes? And no? So like my friends at work knew.

725
00:35:40,605 --> 00:35:42,125
Speaker 2: So I think that was two girls at the time

726
00:35:42,205 --> 00:35:44,725
Speaker 2: that I worked with that knew. The bigger thing is,

727
00:35:44,725 --> 00:35:47,245
Speaker 2: so I did the video in twenty twenty one. That

728
00:35:47,365 --> 00:35:49,925
Speaker 2: was then kind of like what I call silent activism.

729
00:35:49,965 --> 00:35:52,925
Speaker 2: It was just like me doing my thing. A year later,

730
00:35:53,085 --> 00:35:55,845
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty two, the first time I publicly spoke

731
00:35:55,845 --> 00:35:59,085
Speaker 2: about having HIV I went on live National TV in

732
00:35:59,085 --> 00:36:02,325
Speaker 2: the UK and people always like, that's insane. The first

733
00:36:02,325 --> 00:36:06,725
Speaker 2: time you did, like a good talk on live TV. Yeah,

734
00:36:06,845 --> 00:36:08,445
Speaker 2: but I got invited for World Day's Day to go

735
00:36:08,485 --> 00:36:10,365
Speaker 2: on a Channel four program and I was like, look,

736
00:36:10,365 --> 00:36:13,885
Speaker 2: I'll do it. At that point, I just changed jobs,

737
00:36:13,925 --> 00:36:15,925
Speaker 2: so I'd moved to Manchester. I didn't no one at

738
00:36:15,925 --> 00:36:18,045
Speaker 2: work no I had HIV and I had to book

739
00:36:18,085 --> 00:36:21,845
Speaker 2: the day off because I work in operations. The biggest

740
00:36:21,925 --> 00:36:24,205
Speaker 2: day of the year is Black Friday, Well Day's Day

741
00:36:24,245 --> 00:36:28,205
Speaker 2: and Black Friday next to each other, right, So I'd

742
00:36:28,285 --> 00:36:30,325
Speaker 2: like beg and plead to be like please can I

743
00:36:30,325 --> 00:36:32,085
Speaker 2: have this day off? And people like why and I'm like,

744
00:36:32,245 --> 00:36:33,885
Speaker 2: I've been a bte to go on TV like it's

745
00:36:33,885 --> 00:36:36,045
Speaker 2: a big deal. And they were all like, oh, we'll

746
00:36:36,045 --> 00:36:37,965
Speaker 2: put it on in the office and I was like.

747
00:36:38,085 --> 00:36:43,965
Speaker 3: Oh, oh, so people had you had seen at.

748
00:36:43,845 --> 00:36:45,845
Speaker 1: People I've got to go on TV?

749
00:36:46,125 --> 00:36:49,165
Speaker 2: Yeah? Did they not go what for yeah, but I

750
00:36:49,245 --> 00:36:51,085
Speaker 2: kept being like, oh, it's charity work. It's just a

751
00:36:51,245 --> 00:36:52,005
Speaker 2: charity work.

752
00:36:52,365 --> 00:36:55,765
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, wow. And did they put it on in

753
00:36:55,805 --> 00:36:56,445
Speaker 1: the office.

754
00:36:56,605 --> 00:36:58,845
Speaker 2: No, thank god, but they all watched it and then

755
00:36:58,845 --> 00:37:01,285
Speaker 2: the next day, so I felt so awkward. I've then,

756
00:37:01,325 --> 00:37:03,165
Speaker 2: I think it was on a Thursday, and we're all

757
00:37:03,165 --> 00:37:04,845
Speaker 2: in the office on the Friday. I've gone in on

758
00:37:04,885 --> 00:37:08,525
Speaker 2: the Friday and everyone's like, you're insane and I'm like,

759
00:37:08,565 --> 00:37:11,205
Speaker 2: oh no, like it's find and like no, we love

760
00:37:11,245 --> 00:37:12,805
Speaker 2: what you do, and I'm like, can we just in

761
00:37:12,845 --> 00:37:13,685
Speaker 2: the office.

762
00:37:13,365 --> 00:37:18,125
Speaker 3: Maybe, Yeah, concentrate on work, have something to do.

763
00:37:19,685 --> 00:37:22,845
Speaker 1: The start of the truth and telling the truth.

764
00:37:23,005 --> 00:37:28,325
Speaker 3: Yeah, and no longer hiding had a kind of snowball.

765
00:37:27,645 --> 00:37:28,925
Speaker 1: Effect for you.

766
00:37:29,405 --> 00:37:33,165
Speaker 2: In twenty twenty two when I went on TV, I

767
00:37:33,165 --> 00:37:36,285
Speaker 2: don't think i'd fully dealt with the demons I had

768
00:37:36,325 --> 00:37:38,485
Speaker 2: and kind of the issues that I mentally was coping

769
00:37:38,485 --> 00:37:42,485
Speaker 2: with living with HIV. After that, it thrust me into

770
00:37:42,525 --> 00:37:45,645
Speaker 2: this world where I was having the conversation almost daily,

771
00:37:46,605 --> 00:37:49,365
Speaker 2: and having that conversation was almost like cathartic because I

772
00:37:49,445 --> 00:37:51,445
Speaker 2: was able to say things I've never said before or

773
00:37:51,485 --> 00:37:53,845
Speaker 2: discuss aspects of HIV that I hadn't had the opportunity

774
00:37:53,885 --> 00:37:56,525
Speaker 2: to speak about what.

775
00:37:56,405 --> 00:37:58,845
Speaker 1: Were those things? Can you remember any of them?

776
00:37:59,085 --> 00:38:02,725
Speaker 2: I think a lot of it was so if I

777
00:38:02,805 --> 00:38:05,005
Speaker 2: got diynos at twenty one, I'm twenty eight now and

778
00:38:05,045 --> 00:38:07,885
Speaker 2: I'm still single, and I say to people, like dating

779
00:38:07,925 --> 00:38:11,365
Speaker 2: with HIV was something I used to struggle to talk

780
00:38:11,405 --> 00:38:14,205
Speaker 2: about because dating in your twenties, and we all know

781
00:38:14,245 --> 00:38:18,565
Speaker 2: this with like hinge, Tinder, etcetera, is horrific. It's awful, regardless,

782
00:38:19,365 --> 00:38:23,845
Speaker 2: to put this on top of it was like awful.

783
00:38:23,885 --> 00:38:25,405
Speaker 2: And the way that men have treated me and the

784
00:38:25,445 --> 00:38:29,685
Speaker 2: responses that I've had, I used to be embarrassed talking

785
00:38:29,725 --> 00:38:33,685
Speaker 2: about the way people would treat me because I think

786
00:38:33,725 --> 00:38:36,005
Speaker 2: I've felt at that point sometimes like I deserved it

787
00:38:36,085 --> 00:38:38,525
Speaker 2: and like what they were saying might be true. And

788
00:38:38,565 --> 00:38:41,245
Speaker 2: I think being given a platform to speak gave me

789
00:38:41,285 --> 00:38:45,685
Speaker 2: the realization of this isn't okay, and I'm strong enough

790
00:38:45,685 --> 00:38:47,285
Speaker 2: to talk and I want to be a voice to

791
00:38:47,325 --> 00:38:49,165
Speaker 2: people to go if you were ever treated like that,

792
00:38:49,165 --> 00:38:51,965
Speaker 2: that is not acceptable and we do not stand for

793
00:38:52,005 --> 00:38:54,805
Speaker 2: that as a community. And if someone does that, run immediately,

794
00:38:54,965 --> 00:38:56,605
Speaker 2: use it as a litmus test and run.

795
00:38:57,805 --> 00:39:03,405
Speaker 3: But at what point would you disclose to a potential date.

796
00:39:03,885 --> 00:39:06,925
Speaker 2: In the early years, I used to wait like until

797
00:39:06,925 --> 00:39:09,525
Speaker 2: like the second or third date, and then I'd say something.

798
00:39:10,005 --> 00:39:12,285
Speaker 2: Now and it's just the world we live in now,

799
00:39:12,405 --> 00:39:15,165
Speaker 2: like modern technology where you're on hinge and immediately someone's like,

800
00:39:15,205 --> 00:39:16,285
Speaker 2: can I have your Instagram?

801
00:39:16,405 --> 00:39:19,165
Speaker 1: And I'm like, yeah, so I can say everything star.

802
00:39:20,325 --> 00:39:23,085
Speaker 2: I was like give and I was like why, and

803
00:39:23,125 --> 00:39:24,805
Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, I do this all charity work. It's

804
00:39:24,845 --> 00:39:27,045
Speaker 2: like all if my Instagram's a bit controversial, were like,

805
00:39:27,045 --> 00:39:30,165
Speaker 2: what is it? And I'm like, oh, go into it.

806
00:39:31,125 --> 00:39:34,565
Speaker 3: That only makes them, by the way, more intrigued and

807
00:39:34,685 --> 00:39:35,765
Speaker 3: more likely to suit you.

808
00:39:35,805 --> 00:39:37,685
Speaker 2: Well, why can't I have it? And I'm like, oh,

809
00:39:37,725 --> 00:39:39,925
Speaker 2: but the worst thing I realized recently is like you

810
00:39:39,925 --> 00:39:42,765
Speaker 2: can google my name and find it. So I was like,

811
00:39:42,805 --> 00:39:45,845
Speaker 2: if you know my full name, you can also find it.

812
00:39:46,605 --> 00:39:48,965
Speaker 2: So I have to be like, it's not delicate. I

813
00:39:49,005 --> 00:39:52,685
Speaker 2: think the education for HV is awful, especially like the

814
00:39:52,725 --> 00:39:55,645
Speaker 2: straight community, for like heterosexual men and women, the education

815
00:39:55,765 --> 00:39:58,085
Speaker 2: is so poor and across the group it's so poor.

816
00:39:58,925 --> 00:40:01,125
Speaker 2: And because of that, if you find out that I

817
00:40:01,125 --> 00:40:04,725
Speaker 2: have hov too early on to knowing me, you don't

818
00:40:04,765 --> 00:40:07,165
Speaker 2: have the grace of knowing Ellie, like, you've not seen

819
00:40:07,205 --> 00:40:09,805
Speaker 2: my personality and seen why I'm as a person, and

820
00:40:09,845 --> 00:40:12,045
Speaker 2: you go straight off that judgment of well, I don't

821
00:40:12,045 --> 00:40:14,885
Speaker 2: want to date someone with HIV. I lose the opportunity

822
00:40:14,925 --> 00:40:16,365
Speaker 2: to get on my soapbox and be like, this is

823
00:40:16,405 --> 00:40:19,125
Speaker 2: what HIV is like, this is great. But also they

824
00:40:19,205 --> 00:40:22,525
Speaker 2: lose the education, which I feel a bit like downtrodden by.

825
00:40:23,165 --> 00:40:26,645
Speaker 2: So I try and hold it back now to a

826
00:40:26,685 --> 00:40:29,365
Speaker 2: point where someone has kind of had a good conversation

827
00:40:29,445 --> 00:40:31,165
Speaker 2: with me, knows me very well, knows my rapport and

828
00:40:31,165 --> 00:40:33,005
Speaker 2: how I work, and then I'll say, look, let's have

829
00:40:33,005 --> 00:40:34,965
Speaker 2: a conversation. How do you feel about this.

830
00:40:35,445 --> 00:40:37,965
Speaker 3: And what sort of responses have you had You said

831
00:40:38,405 --> 00:40:41,685
Speaker 3: that they'd been you know, you'd had terrible things said

832
00:40:41,685 --> 00:40:41,925
Speaker 3: to you.

833
00:40:42,165 --> 00:40:42,565
Speaker 1: Yeah.

834
00:40:42,805 --> 00:40:45,125
Speaker 2: The thing I find difficult now is you have the

835
00:40:45,165 --> 00:40:48,685
Speaker 2: immediate reaction to finding out someone has HIV, and those

836
00:40:48,765 --> 00:40:53,565
Speaker 2: responses I've had from people are there's incorrect assumptions that

837
00:40:53,725 --> 00:40:55,965
Speaker 2: in order for me to have got HIV at twenty one,

838
00:40:56,045 --> 00:40:58,725
Speaker 2: I have had sex with every man on the planet, right,

839
00:40:58,765 --> 00:41:01,725
Speaker 2: And that's the immediate assumption that most people make isn't true.

840
00:41:01,805 --> 00:41:05,445
Speaker 2: I would love it to be true. Not true, but

841
00:41:05,645 --> 00:41:08,165
Speaker 2: that's the immediate response is like she has done something

842
00:41:08,205 --> 00:41:12,005
Speaker 2: to deserve this or whatever. I then now also get

843
00:41:12,325 --> 00:41:15,645
Speaker 2: a different side of things where I speak about HIV

844
00:41:15,805 --> 00:41:19,005
Speaker 2: very publicly, and I speak about the damage that HIV

845
00:41:19,125 --> 00:41:21,885
Speaker 2: has done to my mental health. Physically, HREV has never

846
00:41:22,125 --> 00:41:24,085
Speaker 2: touched me as a person right, Physically, it has no

847
00:41:24,125 --> 00:41:26,365
Speaker 2: effect on my health. I can't pass it on. It's

848
00:41:26,405 --> 00:41:30,365
Speaker 2: never made me unhealthy. I'm completely fine and well mentally.

849
00:41:30,405 --> 00:41:32,525
Speaker 2: The toll that has taken on me over these years

850
00:41:32,845 --> 00:41:37,165
Speaker 2: isn't pleasant, and I've now had people that find that

851
00:41:37,805 --> 00:41:41,245
Speaker 2: mental issue a lot more dangerous because people are like, oh, well,

852
00:41:41,405 --> 00:41:43,525
Speaker 2: I'm worried about how you cope with this, And I'm like,

853
00:41:43,605 --> 00:41:46,525
Speaker 2: I don't see where that comes from, because I've coped

854
00:41:46,565 --> 00:41:49,005
Speaker 2: with so much and I've come so far from it

855
00:41:49,565 --> 00:41:52,325
Speaker 2: that it almost feels insulting that you think that I

856
00:41:52,405 --> 00:41:54,245
Speaker 2: am weak because I have this?

857
00:41:55,285 --> 00:42:00,685
Speaker 3: Do you think that sometimes people say that as a excuse, yeah,

858
00:42:00,725 --> 00:42:02,805
Speaker 3: for not wanting to pursue things further.

859
00:42:03,285 --> 00:42:07,085
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think there's so much fear, and it's so understandable, right.

860
00:42:07,085 --> 00:42:08,645
Speaker 2: The fear is that, like people don't want to get

861
00:42:08,685 --> 00:42:12,085
Speaker 2: it and I say to everyone else, I would never

862
00:42:12,485 --> 00:42:14,525
Speaker 2: in my life ever want to pass this on to

863
00:42:14,565 --> 00:42:17,325
Speaker 2: someone This was a very horrific, traumatic thing that happened

864
00:42:17,325 --> 00:42:19,165
Speaker 2: to me. Yes, I've taken it in my stride and

865
00:42:19,165 --> 00:42:21,925
Speaker 2: I've become so powerful from it. I would never want

866
00:42:21,965 --> 00:42:23,325
Speaker 2: to pass it on to someone else. I would never

867
00:42:23,325 --> 00:42:25,005
Speaker 2: want someone else to endure the things that I've had

868
00:42:25,005 --> 00:42:29,485
Speaker 2: to endure. What people don't realize is having sex with

869
00:42:29,525 --> 00:42:32,125
Speaker 2: someone that is HATREV positive or medication is one of

870
00:42:32,125 --> 00:42:34,765
Speaker 2: the safest people to have sex with because you know

871
00:42:34,845 --> 00:42:36,765
Speaker 2: you have HREV and therefore you're on leads and you

872
00:42:36,805 --> 00:42:39,525
Speaker 2: can't pass it on. There's so many people in the

873
00:42:39,565 --> 00:42:42,605
Speaker 2: community that don't know when the last test was, may

874
00:42:42,645 --> 00:42:45,085
Speaker 2: have never been tested with phrov let alone any other SI.

875
00:42:45,805 --> 00:42:47,965
Speaker 2: But you would happily have sex with them on a

876
00:42:48,085 --> 00:42:50,605
Speaker 2: night out as a one night stands, but you would

877
00:42:50,605 --> 00:42:52,645
Speaker 2: not end the relationship. Yeah.

878
00:42:52,645 --> 00:42:56,405
Speaker 3: It's so interesting, particularly among a lot of straight people,

879
00:42:56,485 --> 00:42:58,565
Speaker 3: because I think, and maybe that is a hangover from

880
00:42:58,565 --> 00:43:01,805
Speaker 3: the eighties that they think that the community's kind of

881
00:43:02,045 --> 00:43:04,925
Speaker 3: protected from it. Yeah, but that's no longer the case.

882
00:43:05,005 --> 00:43:06,445
Speaker 3: In fact, it's the opposite now.

883
00:43:06,765 --> 00:43:09,845
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I think for the first time ever, in

884
00:43:10,005 --> 00:43:15,325
Speaker 2: twenty twenty three, heterosexual transmissions of HIV overtook homosexual transmissions.

885
00:43:15,605 --> 00:43:18,165
Speaker 2: So typically it's also known with a gay disease. It's

886
00:43:18,165 --> 00:43:21,525
Speaker 2: because the transmission of HIV, depending on the type of

887
00:43:21,525 --> 00:43:24,445
Speaker 2: sex you have, is more prevalent. So like anal sex,

888
00:43:24,565 --> 00:43:27,405
Speaker 2: HATREV is a blood borne virus, So anal sex there

889
00:43:27,485 --> 00:43:31,085
Speaker 2: is naturally more blood, microtares, etc. And therefore the transmission

890
00:43:31,125 --> 00:43:33,965
Speaker 2: is higher, which is why it's more prevalent in gay men.

891
00:43:34,685 --> 00:43:38,605
Speaker 2: If heterosexuals are having anal and vaginal sex, the risk

892
00:43:38,685 --> 00:43:40,765
Speaker 2: is the same. And I think that's where it's been

893
00:43:40,845 --> 00:43:44,005
Speaker 2: incorrectly skewed, is it's just become this stigma of it

894
00:43:44,045 --> 00:43:46,805
Speaker 2: happens to gay people and you don't take the science off. No,

895
00:43:46,965 --> 00:43:48,965
Speaker 2: this is actually where it forms from, and this is

896
00:43:49,045 --> 00:43:50,245
Speaker 2: why that's a bigger risk.

897
00:43:51,445 --> 00:43:55,445
Speaker 3: Okay, So what bloke has allowed himself to mate? Ili

898
00:43:56,285 --> 00:43:59,525
Speaker 3: be struck by the beauty of Illy and gone out

899
00:43:59,525 --> 00:43:59,925
Speaker 3: with Illy.

900
00:44:00,525 --> 00:44:03,765
Speaker 2: I've been single pretty much since the day I was diagnosed.

901
00:44:04,885 --> 00:44:09,285
Speaker 2: I've dated, so I very recently had what I thought

902
00:44:09,605 --> 00:44:11,245
Speaker 2: was the love of my life. Right, So I was

903
00:44:11,245 --> 00:44:13,645
Speaker 2: in like a three month relationship. I was spun away

904
00:44:13,725 --> 00:44:17,685
Speaker 2: by the magic of love and fantasticness. And I think

905
00:44:17,725 --> 00:44:23,125
Speaker 2: it's I can be emotionally weak because I've come from

906
00:44:23,125 --> 00:44:26,845
Speaker 2: a place of being ghosted and ignored that that level

907
00:44:26,845 --> 00:44:31,365
Speaker 2: of intense kind of affection is empowering to me. And

908
00:44:31,405 --> 00:44:32,925
Speaker 2: I'm like, oh my god, this is it, like this

909
00:44:32,965 --> 00:44:33,885
Speaker 2: is my prince Ahmi.

910
00:44:35,045 --> 00:44:38,525
Speaker 1: It's nourishing, it's like water to apart song.

911
00:44:38,605 --> 00:44:42,645
Speaker 2: Of course, so my last relationship, ironically, he dumped me

912
00:44:42,685 --> 00:44:45,365
Speaker 2: on World AG's Day this year. Not very nice?

913
00:44:47,805 --> 00:44:48,605
Speaker 1: Oh did he not?

914
00:44:49,125 --> 00:44:51,045
Speaker 2: I was about to talk in front of three hundred

915
00:44:51,085 --> 00:44:52,965
Speaker 2: people and he rang me to dump me, so I

916
00:44:53,005 --> 00:44:53,805
Speaker 2: had to cancel.

917
00:44:56,245 --> 00:44:57,205
Speaker 1: What did he say?

918
00:44:57,445 --> 00:45:01,965
Speaker 2: He basically said, it's not you, it's me. And I

919
00:45:02,005 --> 00:45:03,605
Speaker 2: was like, I feel like there's a lot more to

920
00:45:03,685 --> 00:45:06,045
Speaker 2: im back in and you're not willing to talk. And

921
00:45:06,085 --> 00:45:07,725
Speaker 2: then I asked for a conversation. He was like, oh,

922
00:45:07,765 --> 00:45:09,285
Speaker 2: I'm just going to go for a run with my friend.

923
00:45:09,645 --> 00:45:13,685
Speaker 2: So by I hope you have a nice life. And

924
00:45:13,685 --> 00:45:15,805
Speaker 2: that was the yeah.

925
00:45:15,845 --> 00:45:18,485
Speaker 3: And so, of course, because you live in this in

926
00:45:18,525 --> 00:45:22,965
Speaker 3: this world now, the territory where you don't know. I mean,

927
00:45:23,045 --> 00:45:26,845
Speaker 3: as you said, dating is complicated enough anyway, but you

928
00:45:26,885 --> 00:45:31,925
Speaker 3: don't know really how much of a role your HIV

929
00:45:32,045 --> 00:45:36,845
Speaker 3: positive status plays in the decisions and the reactions that

930
00:45:36,885 --> 00:45:38,525
Speaker 3: you get from men that you're dating.

931
00:45:38,805 --> 00:45:42,245
Speaker 2: I also think it, and I think anyone that's had

932
00:45:42,285 --> 00:45:45,885
Speaker 2: like a big life changing event happened to them, the

933
00:45:45,925 --> 00:45:49,045
Speaker 2: person you are after that is different, right, And I

934
00:45:49,045 --> 00:45:51,325
Speaker 2: would say HREV is like this huge pivotal moment of

935
00:45:51,365 --> 00:45:54,805
Speaker 2: my life where everything shifted. I became more present, more confident,

936
00:45:55,245 --> 00:45:57,045
Speaker 2: and then when I became an activist, that became like

937
00:45:57,045 --> 00:46:00,805
Speaker 2: this purpose I have in life. Men don't always like

938
00:46:01,045 --> 00:46:05,405
Speaker 2: really strong women. Yes, And I think because I am

939
00:46:05,765 --> 00:46:08,565
Speaker 2: career wise, I'm very successful. So like if you take

940
00:46:08,765 --> 00:46:11,325
Speaker 2: HREV entire out of the picture, I've done wonders for

941
00:46:11,365 --> 00:46:14,085
Speaker 2: myself my career, and I continue to achieve and achieve

942
00:46:14,685 --> 00:46:17,965
Speaker 2: outside of that. I basically run like this mini own

943
00:46:18,085 --> 00:46:20,925
Speaker 2: business of activism where I speak and I talk and

944
00:46:20,965 --> 00:46:22,925
Speaker 2: I go everywhere I can to do what I need

945
00:46:22,965 --> 00:46:25,725
Speaker 2: to do to get this voice out there that I

946
00:46:25,765 --> 00:46:29,365
Speaker 2: think it is daunting for someone to look at that

947
00:46:29,445 --> 00:46:30,645
Speaker 2: and go, well, how do you do all this? And

948
00:46:30,645 --> 00:46:33,805
Speaker 2: I'm like, it's just me. That's just who I am,

949
00:46:33,845 --> 00:46:35,485
Speaker 2: Like that's what I want to do with my life.

950
00:46:36,365 --> 00:46:39,845
Speaker 2: That I also have expectations of maybe what I want

951
00:46:40,685 --> 00:46:41,565
Speaker 2: that I find.

952
00:46:41,405 --> 00:46:45,485
Speaker 1: Hard to find, and what do you want?

953
00:46:46,045 --> 00:46:50,085
Speaker 2: HIV gave me presents that I never knew existed. I

954
00:46:50,125 --> 00:46:53,405
Speaker 2: do not remember before having HIV, remembering like a conversation

955
00:46:53,485 --> 00:46:56,605
Speaker 2: or a moment, and I make such a point now

956
00:46:56,725 --> 00:46:59,565
Speaker 2: to live today, like if I'm going out for a

957
00:46:59,605 --> 00:47:01,165
Speaker 2: drink with you or going out for dinner, I want

958
00:47:01,205 --> 00:47:02,445
Speaker 2: it to be the best inn we've ever had in

959
00:47:02,445 --> 00:47:06,165
Speaker 2: our lives, because tomorrow wasn't promised, and I think I

960
00:47:06,205 --> 00:47:08,885
Speaker 2: want someone that can get in that moment with me,

961
00:47:09,365 --> 00:47:11,085
Speaker 2: and not someone that turns up and goes, oh, I've

962
00:47:11,085 --> 00:47:13,725
Speaker 2: had a horrible do at work this yeah, the early yard,

963
00:47:13,805 --> 00:47:15,845
Speaker 2: I fell awful. I want someone to go, let's just

964
00:47:16,005 --> 00:47:20,085
Speaker 2: put it down and have fun and embrace today because

965
00:47:20,085 --> 00:47:22,245
Speaker 2: tomorrow is not doing. I mean, tomorrow is a gift,

966
00:47:22,325 --> 00:47:24,085
Speaker 2: not a promise, and I want someone that can be

967
00:47:24,165 --> 00:47:25,405
Speaker 2: in that presence with me.

968
00:47:27,365 --> 00:47:33,925
Speaker 3: Your optimism and your exuberance.

969
00:47:34,725 --> 00:47:40,285
Speaker 1: Must make you attractive to me. I'd hope so, yes,

970
00:47:40,685 --> 00:47:44,645
Speaker 1: but you don't. You don't have the evidence that that's

971
00:47:44,725 --> 00:47:45,245
Speaker 1: the case.

972
00:47:45,685 --> 00:47:48,445
Speaker 2: I don't think I've found someone yet that is on

973
00:47:48,765 --> 00:47:52,365
Speaker 2: the energy that I am looking for. So I don't

974
00:47:52,365 --> 00:47:53,925
Speaker 2: want to sit here and say like, yes I have

975
00:47:54,205 --> 00:47:56,725
Speaker 2: male suitors. I have people that i've I mean, if

976
00:47:56,725 --> 00:47:57,885
Speaker 2: I wanted to go on a debt, I could go

977
00:47:57,885 --> 00:48:00,325
Speaker 2: on a date. And I think what I've decided for

978
00:48:00,365 --> 00:48:02,365
Speaker 2: twenty twenty five. I want to live like my Carrie

979
00:48:02,405 --> 00:48:05,125
Speaker 2: Bradshaw life, like this is my Sex and the City.

980
00:48:05,445 --> 00:48:09,125
Speaker 2: I'm twenty eight.

981
00:48:08,365 --> 00:48:13,645
Speaker 3: Which series sweeted series because You've got to be very careful.

982
00:48:14,565 --> 00:48:15,805
Speaker 1: I've got to be very careful.

983
00:48:16,245 --> 00:48:18,405
Speaker 3: I don't want you to move moving to Paris with

984
00:48:18,445 --> 00:48:21,725
Speaker 3: a ballet dancer who's monumentally wrong, or hooking up with

985
00:48:21,805 --> 00:48:22,765
Speaker 3: big who's a rotter.

986
00:48:23,085 --> 00:48:27,325
Speaker 2: No, I think I'm like the start of season five exclusively,

987
00:48:28,725 --> 00:48:32,845
Speaker 2: well you know when she starts, she's just like a

988
00:48:32,885 --> 00:48:35,645
Speaker 2: man hater and she's a bit like ready to love.

989
00:48:35,725 --> 00:48:37,605
Speaker 2: I think I've started twenty to five like that, Like

990
00:48:37,645 --> 00:48:40,125
Speaker 2: I've come out of a breakup and I'm like hate men, right,

991
00:48:40,205 --> 00:48:43,365
Speaker 2: and I think it's about to turn. I'm about to

992
00:48:43,405 --> 00:48:44,805
Speaker 2: be like, let's.

993
00:48:46,765 --> 00:48:48,685
Speaker 3: You know what, if there's one thing I know about men,

994
00:48:48,725 --> 00:48:54,365
Speaker 3: they're very attractive to women that hate that. That's really that's.

995
00:48:54,205 --> 00:48:58,085
Speaker 1: Going to be your primo, your primo entree to their world.

996
00:48:58,165 --> 00:49:00,485
Speaker 2: Yeah, well maybe we have a Samantha. Yeah, do you

997
00:49:00,525 --> 00:49:01,005
Speaker 2: know what I mean?

998
00:49:01,125 --> 00:49:08,405
Speaker 3: Like, yeah, right, yeah, Samantha, Samantha. And in many ways,

999
00:49:08,485 --> 00:49:12,165
Speaker 3: you know, it's like spring arrived. Yeah, like with the

1000
00:49:12,205 --> 00:49:18,685
Speaker 3: awkward blooming. Yeah, you're so lovely, thank you.

1001
00:49:18,725 --> 00:49:20,485
Speaker 1: No, You're just so lovely.

1002
00:49:20,765 --> 00:49:23,085
Speaker 3: And I mean that in the sense of when I

1003
00:49:23,125 --> 00:49:25,405
Speaker 3: was saying earlier, you know, men must be attracted to

1004
00:49:25,445 --> 00:49:28,885
Speaker 3: your your beauty and your the essence of you, but

1005
00:49:28,965 --> 00:49:32,485
Speaker 3: women also must be in the course of your life.

1006
00:49:32,485 --> 00:49:37,845
Speaker 3: In the last eight years, have people dropped off as friends?

1007
00:49:38,245 --> 00:49:41,925
Speaker 2: Yeah? So, and it's really sad. So Like I think

1008
00:49:41,965 --> 00:49:44,845
Speaker 2: I spoke about this earlier. My best friend who came

1009
00:49:44,885 --> 00:49:46,925
Speaker 2: to sit with me when I was first diagnosed. We've

1010
00:49:46,965 --> 00:49:49,885
Speaker 2: got two matching tattoos together. She was Australia and we

1011
00:49:49,885 --> 00:49:55,765
Speaker 2: were like sisters. We are no longer friends, which is

1012
00:49:56,285 --> 00:49:58,885
Speaker 2: painful to me because I loved her so much. I

1013
00:49:58,925 --> 00:50:03,085
Speaker 2: think it was a natural progression of when we were

1014
00:50:03,245 --> 00:50:08,325
Speaker 2: really good friends. I wasn't okay, and I think that

1015
00:50:08,405 --> 00:50:11,525
Speaker 2: maybe took toll on friendship. But also she was ready

1016
00:50:11,565 --> 00:50:14,085
Speaker 2: to go and live a life that I wasn't ready for.

1017
00:50:14,605 --> 00:50:16,485
Speaker 2: She wanted to have a boyfriend and have like this

1018
00:50:16,725 --> 00:50:19,485
Speaker 2: fantastic life, and I was still in a place of

1019
00:50:19,565 --> 00:50:23,805
Speaker 2: like I need to be a bit reckless, and I

1020
00:50:23,845 --> 00:50:27,725
Speaker 2: think it deteriorated the friendship to the point that we

1021
00:50:28,005 --> 00:50:31,005
Speaker 2: don't talk anyone, which is so sad because I still

1022
00:50:31,045 --> 00:50:32,925
Speaker 2: have no bad word to say about I love her

1023
00:50:32,925 --> 00:50:36,365
Speaker 2: to pieces, but it just couldn't weather the storm.

1024
00:50:37,485 --> 00:50:41,085
Speaker 3: And sometimes I think some friendships can't be the brunt

1025
00:50:41,245 --> 00:50:45,005
Speaker 3: of that searing intimacya You know, it's like if you've

1026
00:50:45,045 --> 00:50:47,645
Speaker 3: had a friend who's broken up with her boyfriend and

1027
00:50:47,645 --> 00:50:49,725
Speaker 3: then she gets back together with him, and in that

1028
00:50:50,045 --> 00:50:54,005
Speaker 3: you just can't kind of get back on track. But

1029
00:50:54,085 --> 00:50:56,125
Speaker 3: the loss of a friend is painful.

1030
00:50:56,405 --> 00:50:59,165
Speaker 2: Oh, it's a worthbreak I've ever been through in my life.

1031
00:50:59,365 --> 00:51:05,845
Speaker 3: You've had periods of such growth, Yeah, painful growth a

1032
00:51:05,845 --> 00:51:08,765
Speaker 3: lot of us. Yeah, And not everyone in your situation

1033
00:51:08,805 --> 00:51:11,525
Speaker 3: would have been capable of that growth or wanted that growth.

1034
00:51:13,245 --> 00:51:16,125
Speaker 3: Do you find sometimes that the rest of the world

1035
00:51:16,325 --> 00:51:18,605
Speaker 3: has not reason to make you?

1036
00:51:20,325 --> 00:51:22,645
Speaker 2: Yeah, I say this to my dad all the time.

1037
00:51:23,765 --> 00:51:27,325
Speaker 2: I never understood the word wisdom until about the last

1038
00:51:27,365 --> 00:51:30,125
Speaker 2: two years of my life, and I was like, I

1039
00:51:30,125 --> 00:51:32,405
Speaker 2: don't know, I not wise meant. But like I look

1040
00:51:32,525 --> 00:51:35,645
Speaker 2: back at the versions of Elli, and I go, God,

1041
00:51:35,725 --> 00:51:40,165
Speaker 2: I'm so much wiser, Like I have so much more

1042
00:51:40,245 --> 00:51:42,725
Speaker 2: growth and experience and wisdom than what I had before.

1043
00:51:43,485 --> 00:51:48,085
Speaker 2: And unfortunately that wisdom comes from pain, and it comes

1044
00:51:48,085 --> 00:51:50,525
Speaker 2: from a place where I was treated poorly or I

1045
00:51:50,525 --> 00:51:52,645
Speaker 2: got diagnosed with HIV and I had to kind of

1046
00:51:52,685 --> 00:51:56,285
Speaker 2: grow and evolve and change and that's where I developed

1047
00:51:56,285 --> 00:51:59,085
Speaker 2: my wisdom. And there's a lot of people in life

1048
00:51:59,085 --> 00:52:02,005
Speaker 2: that I think, and God bless them, are so fortunate

1049
00:52:02,045 --> 00:52:06,325
Speaker 2: that they've never had an encounter of that scale and

1050
00:52:06,365 --> 00:52:07,765
Speaker 2: the worst thing that ever happens to them is like

1051
00:52:07,805 --> 00:52:10,485
Speaker 2: what they burned their chicken nuggets for dinner, and like,

1052
00:52:10,845 --> 00:52:13,085
Speaker 2: God bless them, Like I'm glad that that is your

1053
00:52:13,485 --> 00:52:15,765
Speaker 2: that's your epitome of the worst thing's ever happened to you.

1054
00:52:16,645 --> 00:52:19,445
Speaker 2: But I don't think you can ever resonate with someone

1055
00:52:19,525 --> 00:52:23,045
Speaker 2: that doesn't have the comparison that you have, because they

1056
00:52:23,125 --> 00:52:25,525
Speaker 2: see you grow and they're like why, and you're like, well.

1057
00:52:25,325 --> 00:52:27,885
Speaker 1: I have to, yes.

1058
00:52:28,005 --> 00:52:31,885
Speaker 3: But even some people, many people who are exposed to

1059
00:52:32,085 --> 00:52:34,525
Speaker 3: like you, know, as my mum always says, if you.

1060
00:52:34,525 --> 00:52:37,085
Speaker 1: Live long enough, terrible things are going to happen.

1061
00:52:36,925 --> 00:52:41,165
Speaker 3: Right, It's really she says it in a very kind

1062
00:52:41,205 --> 00:52:43,645
Speaker 3: of optimistic way, the most pessimistic.

1063
00:52:43,165 --> 00:52:45,085
Speaker 1: Thing you've ever said. But it's true.

1064
00:52:45,725 --> 00:52:49,005
Speaker 3: Even when some people are exposed to the most brutal

1065
00:52:49,045 --> 00:52:52,565
Speaker 3: of pains, it doesn't seem to unlocking them.

1066
00:52:52,965 --> 00:52:54,685
Speaker 1: As you refer to it, the wisdom.

1067
00:52:54,885 --> 00:53:02,005
Speaker 3: Yeah, some people like retreat into themselves or or the

1068
00:53:02,045 --> 00:53:06,325
Speaker 3: sky's falling head down, hiding from the truth of themselves

1069
00:53:06,405 --> 00:53:07,685
Speaker 3: or the situation or whatever.

1070
00:53:08,085 --> 00:53:11,725
Speaker 1: You're very unique in the way that you have.

1071
00:53:11,765 --> 00:53:15,765
Speaker 3: Stepped into it and you've looked outwards and you've opened

1072
00:53:15,765 --> 00:53:16,925
Speaker 3: your arms to the world.

1073
00:53:17,205 --> 00:53:20,605
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think. And it's weird because I say so

1074
00:53:20,605 --> 00:53:24,125
Speaker 2: everyone like my The only way I saw a way

1075
00:53:24,165 --> 00:53:28,845
Speaker 2: forward was thrusting my life open. And the only way

1076
00:53:28,885 --> 00:53:31,805
Speaker 2: I could see personal growth and getting through this was

1077
00:53:31,885 --> 00:53:34,645
Speaker 2: to stop lying, stop keeping a secret, and just going

1078
00:53:34,765 --> 00:53:37,725
Speaker 2: this is me, this is it. I'm an open book.

1079
00:53:37,965 --> 00:53:40,125
Speaker 2: Let's go like, whatever you want to know, I'll tell you.

1080
00:53:40,925 --> 00:53:43,325
Speaker 2: And it was the most freeing and cathartic thing I did.

1081
00:53:43,365 --> 00:53:44,885
Speaker 2: Because the more I do it, the more I'm like,

1082
00:53:44,885 --> 00:53:47,285
Speaker 2: oh God, I love this, Like I want to speak more,

1083
00:53:47,365 --> 00:53:49,045
Speaker 2: get me on a stage, like I will do it

1084
00:53:49,925 --> 00:53:53,885
Speaker 2: and it's not for everyone, but for me. The response

1085
00:53:53,925 --> 00:53:56,125
Speaker 2: I also get, especially from like other young women that

1086
00:53:56,245 --> 00:53:58,205
Speaker 2: like message me or contact me on Instagram, it like

1087
00:53:58,285 --> 00:54:01,205
Speaker 2: it's so nice that they're like, I could never do that,

1088
00:54:01,285 --> 00:54:03,805
Speaker 2: but seeing you do it makes me feel better.

1089
00:54:04,805 --> 00:54:11,645
Speaker 3: M because nothing is more isolating then feeling that you

1090
00:54:11,725 --> 00:54:16,965
Speaker 3: have to keep something about yourself a sacred Yeah.

1091
00:54:17,005 --> 00:54:18,885
Speaker 2: And I think the biggest thing I said to everyone.

1092
00:54:18,925 --> 00:54:22,845
Speaker 2: There are countless times in my life, even recently, where

1093
00:54:22,885 --> 00:54:27,205
Speaker 2: like I experienced loneliness awfully and I feel so alone.

1094
00:54:27,365 --> 00:54:29,325
Speaker 2: And I was like, the one thing that stops you

1095
00:54:29,405 --> 00:54:33,085
Speaker 2: feeling alone is being given the opportunity to speak. I

1096
00:54:33,125 --> 00:54:34,925
Speaker 2: was like, because when I can go on my Instagram

1097
00:54:35,005 --> 00:54:37,085
Speaker 2: story or post a YouTube video or do like an

1098
00:54:37,165 --> 00:54:40,925
Speaker 2: interview and talk, I don't feel alone anymore because all

1099
00:54:40,965 --> 00:54:42,765
Speaker 2: the things that I would have drunkenly said to my

1100
00:54:42,805 --> 00:54:45,485
Speaker 2: friend over a pint, I've been able to say and

1101
00:54:45,525 --> 00:54:47,765
Speaker 2: get off of my chest. So at least if it's

1102
00:54:47,765 --> 00:54:50,245
Speaker 2: not helped anyone, like it's helped me feel better.

1103
00:54:51,645 --> 00:54:56,205
Speaker 3: When you think of your future past your carry season

1104
00:54:56,285 --> 00:55:00,365
Speaker 3: or your cementth season, whatever, twenty twenty five holes, do

1105
00:55:00,445 --> 00:55:04,605
Speaker 3: you have like a mental vision board that has a

1106
00:55:04,645 --> 00:55:08,605
Speaker 3: boyfriend on a family marriage, like, how do you see

1107
00:55:08,645 --> 00:55:09,285
Speaker 3: your future?

1108
00:55:09,365 --> 00:55:14,565
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's weird. I think my understanding of HIV when

1109
00:55:14,605 --> 00:55:16,765
Speaker 2: I was first diagnosed was that I couldn't have children,

1110
00:55:17,645 --> 00:55:19,405
Speaker 2: And although that I was always told that is not

1111
00:55:19,405 --> 00:55:21,365
Speaker 2: true and you can have children without passing it on.

1112
00:55:22,365 --> 00:55:29,485
Speaker 2: My kind of issues with having children is, although you'll

1113
00:55:29,525 --> 00:55:31,685
Speaker 2: tell me there's a zero point zero one percent chance

1114
00:55:31,685 --> 00:55:34,645
Speaker 2: of this happening, my risk of contracting HIV at twenty

1115
00:55:34,685 --> 00:55:36,165
Speaker 2: one was a similar risk right as a one in

1116
00:55:36,165 --> 00:55:38,885
Speaker 2: a million, Like how did this happen? And I always

1117
00:55:38,925 --> 00:55:40,405
Speaker 2: have this thought on the back of my head that's

1118
00:55:40,485 --> 00:55:43,045
Speaker 2: like I could do it again. So it's not that

1119
00:55:43,085 --> 00:55:45,285
Speaker 2: I don't want kids, it's that I would love to

1120
00:55:45,845 --> 00:55:48,685
Speaker 2: adopt one hundred percent would love to adopt. To adopt

1121
00:55:48,725 --> 00:55:50,645
Speaker 2: a child with HIV to me feels like insect, like

1122
00:55:50,685 --> 00:55:52,285
Speaker 2: I would love to offer a life to someone. To

1123
00:55:52,285 --> 00:55:56,045
Speaker 2: be like, this is insanity. So I think there's the

1124
00:55:56,125 --> 00:55:59,205
Speaker 2: little girl in Ellie who says, of course, I would

1125
00:55:59,245 --> 00:56:01,045
Speaker 2: love to skip off in the sunset with a man,

1126
00:56:01,285 --> 00:56:03,285
Speaker 2: like I would love my Prince Charming, I'd love my

1127
00:56:03,285 --> 00:56:08,285
Speaker 2: Cinderella story. There is the defiant Ellie who has grown

1128
00:56:08,325 --> 00:56:11,365
Speaker 2: over the last six years gone. I don't not that

1129
00:56:11,405 --> 00:56:13,965
Speaker 2: I don't need a man, but like I want one,

1130
00:56:14,005 --> 00:56:16,165
Speaker 2: but I don't need it. And I could do anything.

1131
00:56:16,365 --> 00:56:18,045
Speaker 2: I could conquer the world on my own if I

1132
00:56:18,085 --> 00:56:21,325
Speaker 2: wanted to, And that version of me is like a

1133
00:56:21,445 --> 00:56:25,685
Speaker 2: whole I would have a whole dumping ground of kids

1134
00:56:25,725 --> 00:56:27,365
Speaker 2: and have a foster home and be like you can

1135
00:56:27,365 --> 00:56:29,365
Speaker 2: all come live with me, like I'm here for the

1136
00:56:29,365 --> 00:56:32,565
Speaker 2: broken hearted. And it's something in that where I get

1137
00:56:32,605 --> 00:56:35,325
Speaker 2: the both same like energy, Like the thought of getting

1138
00:56:35,325 --> 00:56:37,645
Speaker 2: married and the thought of having a foster home with

1139
00:56:37,685 --> 00:56:41,205
Speaker 2: thirty children gives me the same energy. So I don't

1140
00:56:41,285 --> 00:56:43,685
Speaker 2: know what path I'm going to go on, but I

1141
00:56:43,765 --> 00:56:46,805
Speaker 2: know that there are options either way.

1142
00:56:46,965 --> 00:56:49,685
Speaker 3: Yes, I know that too for you, and I actually

1143
00:56:50,085 --> 00:56:54,365
Speaker 3: believe that whatever you say you're going to do, you're

1144
00:56:54,405 --> 00:56:55,085
Speaker 3: going to do.

1145
00:56:55,565 --> 00:56:57,845
Speaker 2: Yeah, because I think the biggest thing I'd love to

1146
00:56:57,925 --> 00:57:00,605
Speaker 2: achieve so in the UK we want to end transmissions

1147
00:57:00,605 --> 00:57:03,605
Speaker 2: of HIV by twenty thirty. I would love to be

1148
00:57:03,725 --> 00:57:06,885
Speaker 2: one of the names quoted as achieving that, Like that

1149
00:57:06,965 --> 00:57:08,485
Speaker 2: to me is insanity. If I can be one of

1150
00:57:08,525 --> 00:57:11,965
Speaker 2: the people who has done enough work to be she

1151
00:57:12,005 --> 00:57:14,205
Speaker 2: helped make this happen insane.

1152
00:57:14,365 --> 00:57:16,045
Speaker 1: Amazing in five years time.

1153
00:57:16,165 --> 00:57:19,125
Speaker 2: Yeah, and if I can then spread that across the pond,

1154
00:57:19,205 --> 00:57:21,685
Speaker 2: so like I'd love to do humanitarian work in Africa,

1155
00:57:21,725 --> 00:57:23,725
Speaker 2: Like I would love to go and really in a

1156
00:57:23,805 --> 00:57:25,925
Speaker 2: less developed country so they don't have access to medication.

1157
00:57:25,965 --> 00:57:27,805
Speaker 2: I would love to help. Yeah, and I would love

1158
00:57:27,845 --> 00:57:31,085
Speaker 2: to have that culture shock of And I think it

1159
00:57:31,125 --> 00:57:33,845
Speaker 2: would be because I would be sat there with medication

1160
00:57:33,965 --> 00:57:36,605
Speaker 2: in my back pocket that could save people that are

1161
00:57:36,645 --> 00:57:40,285
Speaker 2: currently dying. I would like to spread my activism further

1162
00:57:40,565 --> 00:57:42,725
Speaker 2: and not just stop in like the UK or wherever

1163
00:57:42,765 --> 00:57:45,125
Speaker 2: I'm going, but really go far afield and see where

1164
00:57:45,165 --> 00:57:46,125
Speaker 2: I can get the impact.

1165
00:57:47,005 --> 00:57:52,085
Speaker 1: Oh, ellie, the world wait, the world to oyster. Yeah,

1166
00:57:52,165 --> 00:57:55,245
Speaker 1: the world two oyster. And if you don't like oysters,

1167
00:57:55,765 --> 00:57:58,125
Speaker 1: the worldier chicken nugget.

1168
00:57:59,605 --> 00:58:01,765
Speaker 3: I mean, the sky has to fall for the chickens

1169
00:58:01,805 --> 00:58:04,845
Speaker 3: in order for us to enjoy the chicken exactly. It's

1170
00:58:04,965 --> 00:58:08,485
Speaker 3: just we have to accept that you are an at

1171
00:58:08,485 --> 00:58:14,125
Speaker 3: a delight. Thank you, such a force for good, such

1172
00:58:14,125 --> 00:58:17,925
Speaker 3: a piece of God. Emotional and thank you for joining us.

1173
00:58:18,005 --> 00:58:21,845
Speaker 3: Well I'm a little bit emotional myself. Thank you for

1174
00:58:21,965 --> 00:58:25,685
Speaker 3: joining us on No Filter. And I wish you health

1175
00:58:25,765 --> 00:58:26,925
Speaker 3: and wealth.

1176
00:58:28,085 --> 00:58:29,285
Speaker 1: In all of its forms.

1177
00:58:29,485 --> 00:58:30,525
Speaker 2: Thank you so much.

1178
00:58:30,725 --> 00:58:37,685
Speaker 3: Yeah, as someone who vaguely remembers the eighties and the

1179
00:58:37,725 --> 00:58:43,045
Speaker 3: panic and shame and misinformation and the bowling ball campaign,

1180
00:58:44,125 --> 00:58:47,325
Speaker 3: I kind of thought I knew about HIV and AIDS,

1181
00:58:47,365 --> 00:58:51,365
Speaker 3: but there was so much that I didn't know. Ellie

1182
00:58:51,405 --> 00:58:56,565
Speaker 3: feels wise beyond her years, and she is, and I

1183
00:58:56,645 --> 00:58:58,925
Speaker 3: know that you will have felt the emotion at the

1184
00:58:59,085 --> 00:59:02,325
Speaker 3: end of that interview. I truly believe that Ellie is

1185
00:59:02,365 --> 00:59:04,605
Speaker 3: going to make a huge difference in this world. Well,

1186
00:59:04,845 --> 00:59:08,525
Speaker 3: she already has, but using her voice to be an

1187
00:59:08,565 --> 00:59:11,125
Speaker 3: advocate and break the stigma.

1188
00:59:11,485 --> 00:59:12,965
Speaker 1: Is a gift to the world.

1189
00:59:14,205 --> 00:59:16,325
Speaker 3: I hope to check in with Ellie again and see

1190
00:59:16,325 --> 00:59:21,405
Speaker 3: how her year of Carrie or maybe Samantha, how that

1191
00:59:21,525 --> 00:59:22,085
Speaker 3: went down.

1192
00:59:22,845 --> 00:59:27,365
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for listening. The executive producer.

1193
00:59:26,925 --> 00:59:30,125
Speaker 3: Of No Filter is Naima Brown and the senior producer

1194
00:59:30,365 --> 00:59:34,765
Speaker 3: is Grace Ruvre. Audio production is by Jacob Brown and

1195
00:59:34,885 --> 00:59:36,725
Speaker 3: I'm your host, Kate Lane Brook.

1196
00:59:37,365 --> 00:59:39,445
Speaker 1: I'll be back in your ears next week.