WEBVTT - The Woman Who Wants To Bring Back Perving 0:00:10.327 --> 0:00:13.047 You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast. 0:00:13.727 --> 0:00:16.767 Mamma mea acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters 0:00:16.807 --> 0:00:23.407 that this podcast is recorded on Hello and welcome to 0:00:23.487 --> 0:00:25.927 Mamma Mia out Loud. It's what women are actually talking 0:00:25.927 --> 0:00:27.847 about on Wednesday, the twelfth of June. 0:00:27.927 --> 0:00:30.567 I'm Holly Waynwright, I'm MEA Friedman. 0:00:30.247 --> 0:00:32.647 And I'm m Vernam filling in for Jesse today. You 0:00:32.767 --> 0:00:35.327 might have heard me over on our daily entertainment podcast 0:00:35.327 --> 0:00:36.047 A spill. 0:00:35.927 --> 0:00:39.807 An on today's show. Because Jesse is away and you're here, am, 0:00:40.527 --> 0:00:43.167 I am taking the opportunity to talk about royals. 0:00:43.287 --> 0:00:44.127 You roll us over. 0:00:44.607 --> 0:00:47.727 Welcome to my roundup that includes a wedding, a nasty divorce, 0:00:47.807 --> 0:00:51.607 and a whole new kategait. Also the gray Rock theory 0:00:51.727 --> 0:00:54.327 that might just be the answer for getting through conversations 0:00:54.367 --> 0:00:58.887 with difficult people, and the return of the latsmag But first, 0:00:59.127 --> 0:00:59.807 Mia Friedman. 0:01:00.247 --> 0:01:03.047 In case you missed it, there's a really awful story 0:01:03.167 --> 0:01:07.927 around today about fifty female students from Bacchus Marsh Grammar, 0:01:08.007 --> 0:01:11.007 which is a high school norwest of Melbourne, have reported 0:01:11.207 --> 0:01:14.367 fake nude images of them circulating online that have been 0:01:14.407 --> 0:01:17.527 made with AI. So they're explicit images, but with the 0:01:17.567 --> 0:01:21.887 faces of girls from the school. A teenager has been arrested, 0:01:21.927 --> 0:01:26.087 a teenage boy and since released. After these images of girls, 0:01:26.127 --> 0:01:29.087 who were thought to be in years nine to twelve 0:01:29.967 --> 0:01:34.447 were circulated through the school and presumably outsided as well. 0:01:35.127 --> 0:01:38.407 The principle of the school, Andrew Neil, has released a statement. 0:01:38.567 --> 0:01:40.847 He has said it's appalling. It is something that strikes 0:01:40.887 --> 0:01:43.127 to the heart of students, particularly girls growing. 0:01:42.967 --> 0:01:43.847 Up at this age. 0:01:43.967 --> 0:01:45.487 They should be able to learn and go about their 0:01:45.487 --> 0:01:48.087 business without this kind of nonsense. These things are not funny, 0:01:48.087 --> 0:01:50.847 They are basically vicious and therefore they should be dealt 0:01:50.847 --> 0:01:53.647 with appropriately. It's behavior that needs to be dealt with 0:01:53.687 --> 0:01:55.447 in as firm a way as possible. 0:01:55.687 --> 0:01:55.847 Now. 0:01:55.887 --> 0:02:00.407 Victorian police are continuing to investigate this matter, but I 0:02:00.447 --> 0:02:03.047 think this is just really the start of what we're 0:02:03.047 --> 0:02:06.287 going to see because we've spoken before about celebrities like 0:02:06.327 --> 0:02:09.727 Taylor Swift who have had pornographic images made of her 0:02:10.087 --> 0:02:14.127 a fake using AI. Back in the olden days, I 0:02:14.167 --> 0:02:16.647 had someone when I was a magazine editor who cut 0:02:16.687 --> 0:02:20.087 out images of naked women and photos of my head 0:02:20.847 --> 0:02:23.087 and did it making a bit of a collage and 0:02:23.167 --> 0:02:24.687 sent it to me, which I had to go to 0:02:24.727 --> 0:02:27.567 the police. So I guess terrible people have been doing 0:02:27.567 --> 0:02:30.967 this since the beginning of time, but now it's just 0:02:31.127 --> 0:02:31.807 so easy. 0:02:32.447 --> 0:02:36.727 It's my biggest fear having my nudes leaked, and the 0:02:36.727 --> 0:02:39.567 fact that they can still be leaked even though they're 0:02:39.567 --> 0:02:42.847 not me but looks like me, because these day images 0:02:43.007 --> 0:02:46.567 look so real. That is just beyond And it's these 0:02:46.767 --> 0:02:49.007 young girls, like these are children that it's happening to. 0:02:49.487 --> 0:02:51.527 I think the e Safety Commissioner was talking about it 0:02:51.567 --> 0:02:54.567 today and saying, how this is obviously the beginning of 0:02:54.567 --> 0:02:56.607 this technology, as you've said me, so the law has 0:02:56.647 --> 0:02:59.087 to figure out how to handle it because they're not 0:02:59.567 --> 0:03:02.567 pictures that have been stolen of somebody. They've been entirely created, 0:03:02.607 --> 0:03:05.487 so they're fake. But as she was saying, she's saying, 0:03:05.487 --> 0:03:08.247 this is going to have tragic consequences one day, because 0:03:08.287 --> 0:03:10.927 it will happen to someone who's got such vulnerable mental 0:03:10.927 --> 0:03:12.367 health that it'll go the way that a lot of 0:03:12.367 --> 0:03:16.407 these awful online bullying campaigns go, and we'll lose people, 0:03:16.487 --> 0:03:18.927 and they've got to figure out how to handle it. 0:03:19.047 --> 0:03:21.287 I don't think you can, like, how do you stop 0:03:21.327 --> 0:03:22.607 people from being dickheads. 0:03:22.847 --> 0:03:24.727 One of the ways you can stop children from being 0:03:24.767 --> 0:03:28.647 dickheads is making sure that it is incredibly clear how 0:03:28.687 --> 0:03:32.167 serious it is and what serious consequences there will be, 0:03:32.167 --> 0:03:33.727 because I think if it's a bit of lolls and 0:03:33.807 --> 0:03:35.167 you might just get a slap on the wrist and 0:03:35.167 --> 0:03:37.847 are telling off, that's a completely different ballgame to if 0:03:37.887 --> 0:03:39.327 criminal charges might be brought. 0:03:40.767 --> 0:03:45.767 Tell you how, it's time for Holly's royal roundup now, As. 0:03:45.647 --> 0:03:49.567 I said, So, Jesse's off in Ireland or somewhere somewhere glamorous. Actually, 0:03:49.607 --> 0:03:51.647 I saw her at a castle, so maybe she's changing 0:03:51.687 --> 0:03:54.407 her mind a princess. Yes, maybe she's changing her mind 0:03:54.447 --> 0:03:56.487 about how she feels about royal stories. Anyway, So I 0:03:56.567 --> 0:03:59.047 bribed me or and em in our meeting to let 0:03:59.047 --> 0:04:02.287 me deliver a quick royal roundup. And when Jesse gets back, 0:04:02.327 --> 0:04:04.127 I'm just going to tell her it's a regular now. Yeah, 0:04:04.207 --> 0:04:05.127 that's just the way it rolls. 0:04:05.127 --> 0:04:05.607 I'll back here. 0:04:05.687 --> 0:04:08.527 So three things, are you ready? Yes? Number one? Four 0:04:08.607 --> 0:04:12.527 hundred people watched a very very posh man called Huey 0:04:12.607 --> 0:04:16.127 get married on Saturday. He's the Duke of Westminster and 0:04:16.167 --> 0:04:19.807 he's only thirty three. His calculated wealth is just under 0:04:19.927 --> 0:04:22.567 nine billion pounds, even though he doesn't have a job 0:04:23.047 --> 0:04:26.607 that interesting, isn't Britain great. I'm sure he has a 0:04:26.687 --> 0:04:29.007 job managing all his money, maybe just sitting in one 0:04:29.007 --> 0:04:31.127 of his castles, like piling it up into really neat 0:04:31.167 --> 0:04:34.167 little piles. But anyway, I digress. He married a woman 0:04:34.647 --> 0:04:37.287 called Olivia Henson who did used to have a job. 0:04:37.327 --> 0:04:40.567 She was an account manager and eco importer, but she 0:04:40.727 --> 0:04:42.887 just gave it up to focus on being the Duchess 0:04:42.927 --> 0:04:45.287 of Westminster. Yeah, it's a lot of work, it is, 0:04:45.447 --> 0:04:49.727 so the money doesn't just stack itself anyway. Huey is 0:04:49.887 --> 0:04:53.527 bestie's with both Prince William and Prince Harry. Now he's 0:04:53.607 --> 0:04:55.807 closer to Prince Harry's age, so he might be a 0:04:55.807 --> 0:04:57.847 bit tired of with him. But he is so in 0:04:57.887 --> 0:05:01.007 a circle that he's the godfather to both William's son 0:05:01.047 --> 0:05:04.727 George and Harry's son Archie, and so in a circle 0:05:04.767 --> 0:05:06.927 that Prince William, who is the heir to the throne, 0:05:07.087 --> 0:05:08.927 was just a lowly usher at the wedding. 0:05:09.247 --> 0:05:11.167 There were two things about this wedding that caught my eye. 0:05:11.247 --> 0:05:14.247 One was the hideous shoes that the bride was wearing 0:05:14.687 --> 0:05:18.047 They were blue suede shoes, but they were really like clumpy, 0:05:18.807 --> 0:05:22.647 flatform platform, ugly blue shoes. And as she walked, she 0:05:22.687 --> 0:05:25.167 was wearing a beautiful dress and as she walked you 0:05:25.167 --> 0:05:27.007 could see the ugly shoes. Anyway, I did. 0:05:27.047 --> 0:05:28.567 It was an O to Elvis. You don't know. 0:05:28.967 --> 0:05:30.967 I thought she was trying to be cool. Wrong shoe theory. 0:05:31.207 --> 0:05:34.287 Well, it's the something blue, something borrowed, whatever. But wrong shoe. Oh, 0:05:34.367 --> 0:05:36.767 wrong shoe theory. Yeah, No, I think we need to 0:05:36.847 --> 0:05:39.527 draw a line when it comes to weddings. But I 0:05:39.567 --> 0:05:42.207 also loved this bit about Prince William being in usher. 0:05:42.407 --> 0:05:43.967 Does that when he had to show people to their 0:05:44.007 --> 0:05:45.167 seats and handout programs. 0:05:45.207 --> 0:05:47.007 Yeah, and I had to know who they were. He 0:05:47.127 --> 0:05:48.647 had to know who they were. He had a cheat 0:05:48.687 --> 0:05:49.767 sheet and he was like. 0:05:49.727 --> 0:05:52.407 Oh yes, Duke of so and so. I love that. 0:05:52.487 --> 0:05:55.327 Anyway, the reason everybody got excited about this wedding, apart 0:05:55.367 --> 0:05:57.087 from the fact that you know, richest man in Britain 0:05:57.087 --> 0:05:59.127 all the rest of it, an eligible bachelor blah blah 0:05:59.127 --> 0:06:04.567 blah and really hot really yeah ooh, it's because obviously 0:06:04.607 --> 0:06:07.487 Hughie had to pick between Harry and William his two 0:06:07.487 --> 0:06:10.967 besties about which one could and he chose William, which 0:06:11.007 --> 0:06:12.807 maybe you would because he's the heir to the throne 0:06:12.807 --> 0:06:15.767 and Harry has a deal with Netflix, But now you know. 0:06:15.767 --> 0:06:18.087 That he chose. Was Harry actually invited. 0:06:18.207 --> 0:06:22.167 Rumors on the Insiders Royal Insiders say that Harry and 0:06:22.207 --> 0:06:27.007 Meghan were invited but tactfully decided not to come because 0:06:27.087 --> 0:06:29.727 if you believe that side of the story, they didn't 0:06:29.767 --> 0:06:32.727 want to pull focus, particularly from Olivia and her shoes. 0:06:32.847 --> 0:06:36.767 Well, I also think that William had homeground advantage. I mean, 0:06:36.967 --> 0:06:38.767 he was there, and also he's going to be the king, 0:06:38.927 --> 0:06:41.407 so but I think it's important to note that they 0:06:41.447 --> 0:06:44.487 were both invited and that William was the one. 0:06:44.127 --> 0:06:48.327 Who won, because I think we're at the point where 0:06:48.367 --> 0:06:51.887 they cannot be not the same wedding together. They might 0:06:51.967 --> 0:06:54.607 drink too many champagnes, pull off their ties and wrestle 0:06:54.647 --> 0:06:56.127 on the floor, and it has happened before. 0:06:56.167 --> 0:06:59.647 And who's hold is that? It's only one of them 0:06:59.687 --> 0:07:02.727 wrote a book, that's true, exposing all the secrets of 0:07:02.767 --> 0:07:03.127 the other. 0:07:03.367 --> 0:07:08.287 But it's elder boy privilege. The other four, like elder 0:07:08.287 --> 0:07:10.567 siblings always get privileged. 0:07:10.087 --> 0:07:11.687 Like my kids, whoever wasn't a dick. 0:07:12.087 --> 0:07:14.767 No, it's it's the elder sibling. Like at my cousin's wedding, 0:07:14.847 --> 0:07:17.887 she wanted a bridesmaid from each family, and because I'm 0:07:17.927 --> 0:07:20.527 older than my sister, I got chosen from my family. 0:07:20.687 --> 0:07:22.807 So second siblings syndrome. I just have to deal. 0:07:22.927 --> 0:07:24.807 That was at the end of the wedding story. 0:07:24.887 --> 0:07:25.647 That's the end of the wedding. 0:07:25.927 --> 0:07:27.087 She looks a lot like Kate. 0:07:27.167 --> 0:07:28.567 Oh, she looks exactly like Kate. 0:07:28.727 --> 0:07:30.207 I got to Kate's school. 0:07:30.407 --> 0:07:33.247 Everyone's saying she followed a Kate pass because in some 0:07:33.287 --> 0:07:35.087 ways it would be better to marry the Duke of 0:07:35.087 --> 0:07:38.167 Westminster than it would be to marry the Prince of Wales. 0:07:38.527 --> 0:07:42.007 Less scrutiny, you know, more money, all the rest of it. 0:07:42.127 --> 0:07:44.727 You know how the Kardashians are like a certain aesthetic 0:07:45.007 --> 0:07:48.687 among a certain group of women. Is there are the 0:07:48.807 --> 0:07:52.327 same aesthetic among posh English people? Because remember the woman 0:07:52.407 --> 0:07:54.807 that Prince William was rumored to be having an affair with, 0:07:55.047 --> 0:07:59.407 whose name I can't pronounce some things. Ye, she looked 0:07:59.407 --> 0:08:02.047 exactly like Kate too. So it's kind of like a 0:08:02.207 --> 0:08:09.647 very outdoorsy, long, glossy hair, wholesome wholesome. Yes, it's slim, wholesome, very. 0:08:09.527 --> 0:08:13.127 Skinny, very respectable. So yes, she followed the Kate playbooks. 0:08:13.167 --> 0:08:14.767 She went to the same school as Kate. She then 0:08:14.807 --> 0:08:16.967 went to a UNI that isn't like Oxford or Cambridge, 0:08:17.047 --> 0:08:20.207 like an intimidating UNI, but like a good, fancy UNI. 0:08:20.327 --> 0:08:22.687 She went to Trinity in Ireland, which is where Normal 0:08:22.727 --> 0:08:25.767 People was filmed, and everyone was like, who's going to 0:08:25.847 --> 0:08:27.687 marry him? Who's going to marry him? And apparently she 0:08:27.727 --> 0:08:31.167 came from nowhere, Tatler wrote, she flew like a night owl, 0:08:31.287 --> 0:08:34.287 silently into the most coveted bedroom in Britain. She cut 0:08:34.287 --> 0:08:37.007 off as well, she's pushed, but she's not titled. But 0:08:37.127 --> 0:08:38.007 she's from good stock. 0:08:38.087 --> 0:08:38.887 She's not a lady. 0:08:39.247 --> 0:08:42.447 I've certainly just got a serious upgrade, like in terms 0:08:42.447 --> 0:08:43.127 of lifestyle. 0:08:43.167 --> 0:08:45.367 It's like they all learned from Kate's mum, like how 0:08:45.367 --> 0:08:47.247 to be queen, and they're like, how to be Kate. 0:08:47.967 --> 0:08:50.767 So she's been Kate's perhaps better than Kate. Speaking of Kate, 0:08:50.887 --> 0:08:54.367 we have learned nothing. Pulling out my wagging finger. Several 0:08:54.407 --> 0:08:57.527 media organizations, including The Cut and now me, although I'm 0:08:57.527 --> 0:08:59.287 not a very organized organization for. 0:08:59.447 --> 0:09:04.207 Her own organization, wain Wright Organizations. 0:09:04.567 --> 0:09:07.887 I noticed that Kate Watch has been somewhat reinstated since 0:09:07.927 --> 0:09:10.527 it's been three months that we found out that Kate 0:09:10.607 --> 0:09:13.567 was undergoing cancer treatment. And as we know, the internet 0:09:13.607 --> 0:09:16.567 resets its memory after three months and everything that went 0:09:16.647 --> 0:09:19.927 before is wiped and all is new again. She did 0:09:19.967 --> 0:09:21.847 not attend something she was meant to attend. She didn't 0:09:21.847 --> 0:09:23.967 go to the wedding for starters, which is not that surprising, 0:09:23.967 --> 0:09:26.247 and apparently William didn't really go to the party, but 0:09:26.367 --> 0:09:30.247 also something military. She is the honorary colonel of the 0:09:30.287 --> 0:09:31.967 Irish Guards, which is one of the cool things. 0:09:32.327 --> 0:09:34.247 Actual, How you say that word? I was reading it 0:09:34.247 --> 0:09:36.727 in the script and I couldn't figure it out. Colonel. 0:09:38.567 --> 0:09:39.887 You don't know how to say colonel? 0:09:39.927 --> 0:09:41.407 What I do just learn? 0:09:42.047 --> 0:09:44.687 I guess you wouldn't say it. A lot said you 0:09:44.727 --> 0:09:48.367 didn't have Colonel Sanders, who is the dude from Kentucky 0:09:48.367 --> 0:09:48.887 Fried Chicken. 0:09:49.087 --> 0:09:49.567 He's just the. 0:09:49.567 --> 0:09:52.287 Dude on Kentucky Fried Chicken. To me, Kate is a 0:09:52.367 --> 0:09:55.527 colonel of the Irish Guards, and she's like a corn colonel. 0:09:56.247 --> 0:09:58.767 She's meant to be part of a big MARCHI festival 0:09:58.767 --> 0:10:00.887 of soldiers in hats this week called the Trooping of 0:10:00.887 --> 0:10:03.727 the Collar. She'd usually be there inspecting them. She wasn't, 0:10:03.767 --> 0:10:05.527 of course, and she sent a letter saying she was 0:10:05.567 --> 0:10:07.607 really sorry she couldn't be there, and it sparked a 0:10:07.647 --> 0:10:10.327 whole new round of like, when's she going to come? 0:10:10.527 --> 0:10:12.367 When are we going to see her again? When she's 0:10:12.367 --> 0:10:14.447 coming back to work? And a story this week about 0:10:14.447 --> 0:10:18.087 how she's just promoted her stylist to be her new 0:10:18.167 --> 0:10:20.647 top assistant, and so everyone's like, oh, preparation for her 0:10:20.647 --> 0:10:23.087 coming back, And I'm like, people, have we learned nothing? 0:10:23.247 --> 0:10:25.287 No, No, I'm going to push back on you there, 0:10:25.687 --> 0:10:28.927 Harley dot com. Because when there's someone you know and 0:10:28.927 --> 0:10:30.687 we don't know her but we know of her, and 0:10:30.727 --> 0:10:34.687 someone who's a public figure and they're going through something tough. 0:10:34.567 --> 0:10:36.607 You want to check in. This one is really good 0:10:36.647 --> 0:10:40.767 at you bringing it home with some more really good 0:10:40.767 --> 0:10:44.607 information about really silly rich people. The Earl Spencer that 0:10:44.847 --> 0:10:48.647 is Princess Diana's brother, Charles. He has burnt into Generation 0:10:48.887 --> 0:10:50.807 x's memory as the guy who made the speech at 0:10:50.807 --> 0:10:52.847 her funeral where he ripped the royal family a new 0:10:52.847 --> 0:10:53.527 one right. 0:10:53.367 --> 0:10:55.487 But has since been revealed to be a bit of 0:10:55.487 --> 0:10:55.727 a dick. 0:10:55.807 --> 0:10:58.527 Oh he's a massive dick by the Crown Moss disappointing. 0:10:58.647 --> 0:11:01.967 He is getting his third divorce and he's hired the 0:11:02.007 --> 0:11:07.247 same divorce lawyer who represented Charles when he divorced Diana. 0:11:07.767 --> 0:11:11.087 She is known as a demon the She's widely regarded 0:11:11.127 --> 0:11:13.687 to be the reason why Anna lost her title. Her 0:11:13.887 --> 0:11:17.447 hr h Right she is and I love this so much. Right, 0:11:17.527 --> 0:11:19.527 you will love her. In fact, you'll love her so much. 0:11:19.527 --> 0:11:20.647 I'm going to show you a picture of her. I 0:11:20.687 --> 0:11:23.007 feel like this is a betrayal. This is it, right? 0:11:23.047 --> 0:11:24.807 I mean, can you imagine You're like, well, they she 0:11:24.847 --> 0:11:27.527 did a right number on my sister. This woman, I 0:11:27.567 --> 0:11:31.847 want her too. She is called Baroness Shackleton of Belgravier. 0:11:32.407 --> 0:11:33.807 I love that. 0:11:34.287 --> 0:11:38.207 And she does all the royal divorces. So she represented Charles, 0:11:38.247 --> 0:11:42.407 she represented Andrew. She's also represented Paul McCartney, Madonna and 0:11:42.447 --> 0:11:43.127 Liam Gallagha. 0:11:43.287 --> 0:11:44.367 She sounds like a Harry Potter. 0:11:44.527 --> 0:11:51.287 You will love her. She's wearing oh my god, she 0:11:51.367 --> 0:11:52.967 looks amazing MEA's jacket. 0:11:53.007 --> 0:11:56.807 She's wearing like a military jacks, scarves and a hat. 0:11:57.087 --> 0:11:58.847 She's also terrifying. 0:11:59.647 --> 0:12:01.447 She has a look on her face, that is like, 0:12:02.447 --> 0:12:03.047 fuck with me. 0:12:03.127 --> 0:12:05.567 Not when I hear the word baroness, that's exactly what 0:12:05.647 --> 0:12:06.087 I think of. 0:12:06.247 --> 0:12:09.527 And Belgravier, which is the poshest bit of London, can't 0:12:09.527 --> 0:12:12.287 even set foot in there unless you're worth a bajillion dollars. 0:12:12.567 --> 0:12:15.487 So she Charles has just hired her to get rid 0:12:15.527 --> 0:12:18.767 of his third wife. I agree. I think it's a betrayal, 0:12:19.407 --> 0:12:21.687 but fun anyway. Now you're up to date with a 0:12:21.687 --> 0:12:24.047 lot of the meaningless information about people who have too 0:12:24.127 --> 0:12:26.407 much money and yet live rent free. In my mind, 0:12:27.087 --> 0:12:29.047 are we betting this segment in? Are we? 0:12:29.567 --> 0:12:42.527 Is it coming back? I'm down down to as we've established. 0:12:46.647 --> 0:12:50.327 The notion that you have to forgive in order to 0:12:50.887 --> 0:12:54.447 move on in your life. That's outdated. Therapy, gray rocking 0:12:54.487 --> 0:12:57.367 and going no contact is literally the only way to 0:12:57.527 --> 0:13:01.087 avoid the manipulation all of it. 0:13:01.727 --> 0:13:03.927 Have you heard of the gray rock theory? 0:13:04.487 --> 0:13:04.647 No? 0:13:04.847 --> 0:13:05.367 Okay? 0:13:05.767 --> 0:13:08.487 Well? New York Times author Christina Karen wants you to 0:13:08.487 --> 0:13:11.487 know what it is. So imagine there's a small gray 0:13:11.567 --> 0:13:14.047 rock in your hand. It's a bit boring, a bit dull. 0:13:14.127 --> 0:13:16.727 It looks the same on all sides. Are you really 0:13:16.727 --> 0:13:17.407 bored right now? 0:13:17.567 --> 0:13:17.807 Yeah? 0:13:17.807 --> 0:13:20.127 That's the whole point. I've got you, I've got you. 0:13:20.967 --> 0:13:24.607 So there's a theory that if you adopt the qualities 0:13:24.647 --> 0:13:27.567 of a gray rock, then you will be able to 0:13:27.607 --> 0:13:32.247 repel the argumentative and antagonistic people in your life who 0:13:32.287 --> 0:13:33.407 thrive off conflict. 0:13:33.527 --> 0:13:36.007 Oh I do know this, So make it like a rock. 0:13:36.847 --> 0:13:37.367 Like a rock. 0:13:37.767 --> 0:13:40.087 So the idea of being a gray rock is to 0:13:40.167 --> 0:13:42.567 not kind of like push people away from you. You're 0:13:42.567 --> 0:13:45.567 still kind of engaging in a conversation, but you're not 0:13:45.687 --> 0:13:48.327 oversharing because when you overshare to the wrong people, they 0:13:48.407 --> 0:13:49.767 use that information against you. 0:13:50.047 --> 0:13:53.327 So if you ask Siri to show you the opposite 0:13:53.367 --> 0:13:57.487 of me in any conversation, they will show you a 0:13:57.687 --> 0:14:01.127 gray rock. And that's why I'm so captivated by this technique, 0:14:01.167 --> 0:14:04.567 because the gray rock technique is something that I really 0:14:04.567 --> 0:14:07.127 feel like I need to master, particularly in this age 0:14:07.127 --> 0:14:10.967 of social media, particularly currently, when there's so many people 0:14:11.087 --> 0:14:15.527 screaming so many things. Arguing with them just never works, 0:14:15.887 --> 0:14:19.647 It just never works. And so I've taken this approach 0:14:19.647 --> 0:14:22.247 with trolls for a really long time. Be a gray rock. 0:14:22.407 --> 0:14:24.687 It's a little bit like Michelle Obama, when they go low. 0:14:24.927 --> 0:14:25.567 You go high. 0:14:26.047 --> 0:14:28.727 Yeah, go as high as a gray rock, except they 0:14:28.767 --> 0:14:31.607 sink to the bottom of the thing. I've actually got 0:14:31.607 --> 0:14:33.167 a friend she'd be listening to this. In fact, hell 0:14:33.207 --> 0:14:35.887 her a gray rock friend who is without knowing this 0:14:35.967 --> 0:14:39.167 was what it's called, is what she's employing in like, 0:14:39.247 --> 0:14:42.487 she's going through a really awful breakup, marriage breakup. Her 0:14:42.527 --> 0:14:46.687 whole strategy is do less, do not engage yes, because apparently, 0:14:46.807 --> 0:14:50.727 like psychopaths and narcissists are attracted to drama and they 0:14:50.767 --> 0:14:54.407 can't stand being bored. So if you refuse to feed 0:14:54.527 --> 0:14:58.287 them what they want, yes, like in terms of text messages, 0:14:58.367 --> 0:14:59.767 you know, if they want to get into a fight 0:14:59.887 --> 0:15:04.167 on text messages or something, then being very very calm 0:15:04.247 --> 0:15:07.967 and very boring and very straight and only engaging with 0:15:08.527 --> 0:15:12.887 like factual exchange and everything is a very effective strategy. 0:15:13.567 --> 0:15:15.247 And I would love to be more gray rock to 0:15:15.367 --> 0:15:17.567 me because one thing that I've realized, I think I'll 0:15:17.607 --> 0:15:19.567 can remember we talked about this on the show or Not. 0:15:20.087 --> 0:15:23.007 Soft power is about saying less, not more. I have 0:15:23.087 --> 0:15:24.967 always and I think women are, without wanting to just 0:15:25.007 --> 0:15:28.887 generalize enormously, we rush to feel silences. Yes, we justify ourselves. 0:15:29.127 --> 0:15:31.007 We say I'd like that but is this and this 0:15:31.087 --> 0:15:32.487 and this and this and this are all the reasons 0:15:32.487 --> 0:15:34.967 why I shouldn't get it, whereas being a gray rock 0:15:35.127 --> 0:15:37.327 is more like I'm just going to say what I 0:15:37.407 --> 0:15:39.527 need and then I'm going to curl up in a 0:15:39.527 --> 0:15:40.127 little gray ball. 0:15:40.527 --> 0:15:42.927 Well, what I like is that there isn't curling up 0:15:43.087 --> 0:15:44.207 in the gray rock. 0:15:44.247 --> 0:15:46.407 It's not being a gray feather, that's true, or be 0:15:46.567 --> 0:15:48.447 like a let yourself be kiy. 0:15:48.527 --> 0:15:50.447 The technique is not don't be a gray piece of paper, 0:15:50.447 --> 0:15:53.087 don't be a gray feather. Don't like just blow with 0:15:53.087 --> 0:15:54.967 the wind and let the other person blow you over 0:15:55.727 --> 0:16:00.807 stand your ground, but just be boring and take the 0:16:00.847 --> 0:16:03.287 wind out of their sails by being boring? 0:16:03.447 --> 0:16:05.367 Do you reckon that? This is the technique that you 0:16:05.447 --> 0:16:07.087 might use even by accept when you don't want to 0:16:07.087 --> 0:16:09.607 talk about something like how do you engage if someone 0:16:09.607 --> 0:16:11.727 wants to engage you in a conversation that you do 0:16:11.767 --> 0:16:12.687 not want to be engaged. 0:16:12.727 --> 0:16:15.127 I'm a big yapper like I cannot ever be a 0:16:15.167 --> 0:16:17.607 gray rock. I want to be, but I actually get 0:16:17.647 --> 0:16:22.367 offended when someone's gray rocking me because I'm not there 0:16:22.407 --> 0:16:24.687 to argue with them, which I think that article was 0:16:24.687 --> 0:16:26.767 speculating that people just want to argue. I just love 0:16:26.767 --> 0:16:29.167 a gossip, sesshon. I just want all the information. And 0:16:29.207 --> 0:16:31.447 I've been gray rocked by a friend, which I feel 0:16:31.887 --> 0:16:35.687 is so annoying in a way where I would like 0:16:35.887 --> 0:16:38.567 ask about her life, like how's your partner? And then 0:16:38.567 --> 0:16:40.327 she doesn't want to give me too much information. And 0:16:40.367 --> 0:16:42.687 I don't see her as like gray rocking, as in 0:16:42.767 --> 0:16:44.767 like she's being dull and boring. I see that as 0:16:44.967 --> 0:16:48.247 she doesn't trust me enough to talk more about her life. 0:16:48.487 --> 0:16:50.807 She probably doesn't, so it's a full of disengagement. 0:16:51.367 --> 0:16:53.407 I do this like if there's something I really don't 0:16:53.407 --> 0:16:55.447 want to talk about, Like, for example, at the moment 0:16:55.527 --> 0:16:58.687 in my life, my least favorite question in the entire 0:16:58.727 --> 0:17:02.047 world is how's the book going? Right? If somebody asked 0:17:02.087 --> 0:17:05.447 me that fucking question just because it's difficult, I mean, rewrites, 0:17:05.487 --> 0:17:08.407 it's hard, Like I just I don't want to talk 0:17:08.407 --> 0:17:08.767 about it. 0:17:09.527 --> 0:17:12.247 I asked her that in the kitchen at work, and 0:17:12.287 --> 0:17:13.007 she gray robed me. 0:17:13.127 --> 0:17:15.087 I did, And I do it with my friends and 0:17:15.127 --> 0:17:17.527 sometimes they get upset. They'll be like, how's the book going? 0:17:17.887 --> 0:17:18.687 That's just an example. 0:17:18.727 --> 0:17:22.727 That's my curse with all of your books, and pretty 0:17:22.807 --> 0:17:25.687 much most of the authors I know, they gray rock 0:17:26.327 --> 0:17:30.287 that question, how's the book? And I don't know why. 0:17:30.247 --> 0:17:32.367 It's because this is how it goes. If I don't 0:17:32.367 --> 0:17:33.967 write so and I do this, I don't just do 0:17:34.047 --> 0:17:35.847 this with you me or I do it with everything 0:17:35.967 --> 0:17:38.687 and not always, but when you're at these tricky periods 0:17:38.727 --> 0:17:40.687 that you're at, sometimes I'll just say I don't want 0:17:40.727 --> 0:17:42.687 to talk about it, right. But the thing is is 0:17:42.687 --> 0:17:44.247 if you say I don't want to talk about it, 0:17:44.247 --> 0:17:47.007 it sounds like there's a big story. So then your 0:17:47.007 --> 0:17:49.527 friend wants to open that door. Oh, why what's going on? 0:17:49.807 --> 0:17:52.727 And they keep pushing because like the example that you 0:17:52.847 --> 0:17:56.047 just gave, they probably think I'm being either rude or withholding. 0:17:56.087 --> 0:17:58.727 There's really good gossip there, but I just don't want 0:17:58.767 --> 0:18:01.407 to talk about it because I'm figuring it out because 0:18:01.887 --> 0:18:03.247 I just don't want to talk about it, and I 0:18:03.247 --> 0:18:05.287 don't have to. But there's no law that says I 0:18:05.327 --> 0:18:06.087 have to talk about things. 0:18:06.127 --> 0:18:08.767 I remember, I don't know you are paid to be 0:18:08.807 --> 0:18:09.247 in a podcast. 0:18:10.087 --> 0:18:12.167 Call you in a particularly bad time where I asked, 0:18:12.207 --> 0:18:14.687 how's your book and you just said nope, And I. 0:18:14.567 --> 0:18:16.407 Was like, I got it. Shut down. 0:18:16.607 --> 0:18:19.127 Shut down that was like hardcore, that was a cold 0:18:19.127 --> 0:18:22.007 that wasn't just a gray rock? So is that rude? 0:18:22.247 --> 0:18:24.687 Is there a way to shut down a conversation you 0:18:24.687 --> 0:18:26.887 don't want to have that isn't rude? Is gray rocking 0:18:26.887 --> 0:18:27.647 always rude? 0:18:27.727 --> 0:18:30.087 I think you saying I don't want to talk about 0:18:30.127 --> 0:18:33.767