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Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.

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Speaker 2: Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters

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Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded.

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Speaker 3: On about half past eight, we noticed that her breathing

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Speaker 3: had changed and she started gasping for air. And that

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Speaker 3: for me was when I thought, crap, I really have

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Speaker 3: no idea what this is, because the hangover would never

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Speaker 3: lead to that.

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Speaker 4: Bethany Clark was three days into the trip of a

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Speaker 4: lifetime with her best friend Simone White when everything changed.

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Speaker 4: They were traveling through Lao, having the kind of adventure

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Speaker 4: you meant to have in your twenties, meeting people, seeing

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Speaker 4: the world, having fun. But one night they were given

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Speaker 4: vodka shots at the backpacker hostel they were staying at.

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Speaker 4: The drinks had been laced with methanol, a toxic chemical

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Speaker 4: that can be deadly. By the next day, both Bethany

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Speaker 4: and Simone were seriously unwell. The friends eventually admitted themselves

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Speaker 4: to hospital. Only one of them survived. This is a

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Speaker 4: story about survival, grief, and what it takes to speak

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Speaker 4: out when your best friend can't. It's also a warning

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Speaker 4: one Bethany is determined to share because it could save

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Speaker 4: someone's life. Bethany Clark, Welcome to No Filter.

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Speaker 1: Thank you.

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Speaker 4: Can I say first of all that I'm extraordinarily sorry

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Speaker 4: for the circumstances that have led to us meeting.

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Speaker 1: Appreciate that, thank you.

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Speaker 4: And the circumstances that I'm referring to occurred not even

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Speaker 4: a year ago, November twenty twenty four, last year, and

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Speaker 4: you were traveling with your best friend, Simone White. The

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Speaker 4: pair of you grew up in England together. We did

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Speaker 4: tell me a little bit about your upbringing together.

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Speaker 2: So we met.

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Speaker 3: I think I was four, she would have been five

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Speaker 3: in the first year of primary school.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, we've basically been friends ever since.

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Speaker 3: She was that person to just keep us connected the

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Speaker 3: entire time, so throughout various phases of our life. You know,

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Speaker 3: we went to different secondary schools, we went to completely

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Speaker 3: different unis, different parts of the country. She was always

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Speaker 3: the anchor and the person that would always arrange the plans.

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Speaker 3: We just did so many holidays together over the years.

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Speaker 3: We did a massive backpacking trip when we were twenty

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Speaker 3: and we did, you know, China, Vietnam, Thailand, Hong Kong,

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Speaker 3: and we had a great time and obviously we just

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Speaker 3: had no idea about what was to come, and we

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Speaker 3: booked to go to Lao and Cambodia as part of

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Speaker 3: a trip. So I was over in Australia doing my

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Speaker 3: working holiday and she was as a lawyer back in

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Speaker 3: London and Cambodia seemed to be the halfway point, so

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Speaker 3: that's where we met and then a few days later

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Speaker 3: we went to Lao and that's when it all went wrong.

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Speaker 4: What you're talking about, too, is a part of the

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Speaker 4: world that means a great deal to Australians. You would know,

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Speaker 4: having spent so much time here that a lot of

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Speaker 4: Australians start their traveling adventures by traveling through Southeast Asia.

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Speaker 4: And in fact I met my husband on a trip

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Speaker 4: to Lao twenty.

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Speaker 1: Five years ago.

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Speaker 4: Yes, So when the stories broke that you and Simone

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Speaker 4: were in hospital, that there were these British girls and

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Speaker 4: there were other backpackers as well who were in hospital

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Speaker 4: at that point being treated for methanol poisoning, the whole

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Speaker 4: nation kind of traveled that time period with you in Australia.

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Speaker 4: It was also November, just before people leaving school here

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Speaker 4: were about to go on schoolies, so it was really

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Speaker 4: kind of a reminder of what can happen in a

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Speaker 4: world that feels so open, welcoming fun, a celebration of youth.

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Speaker 4: Was that the mindset that you and Simone had when

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Speaker 4: you set off on your adventures.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it was just supposed to be a

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Speaker 1: fun holiday. Really.

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Speaker 3: Initially the plan wasn't actually to go to Lao at all.

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Speaker 3: It was just to be Cambodia, and Simone kind of

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Speaker 3: encouraged me to go with the plan of it also

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Speaker 3: being loud because we were only supposed to be there

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Speaker 3: for four days. And this happened on the i think

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Speaker 3: the third day, And it was really just because it's

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Speaker 3: in the same region as Cambodia, and we were planning

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Speaker 3: to do the islands like Co Wrong Co Wrong Center

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Speaker 3: m because it's that close. She was like, Oh, we

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Speaker 3: may as well do it too, because we're not going

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Speaker 3: to want to go back just to do Loo. We

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Speaker 3: weren't there long and this happened, and yeah, we were

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Speaker 3: just there to chill out. We weren't drinking particularly heavily either.

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Speaker 3: It was just wasn't much going on in that hostel. Really,

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Speaker 3: it was just that happy hour between eight and ten, and.

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Speaker 1: That's what did it.

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Speaker 4: You were in a town called rain Being, which is

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Speaker 4: has become a bit of a hot spot for tubing.

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Speaker 2: You can go tubing down the river.

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Speaker 1: That's what we did that day that it happened.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and so you'd had a kind of celebratory day

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Speaker 4: in the outdoors, you went back to your the backpacker's

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Speaker 4: hostel where you were staying, a place called Nana not

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Speaker 4: a backpacker.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So we finished the tubing, went back there, got ready,

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Speaker 3: and we knew about this happy hour starting at eight,

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Speaker 3: So we got there shortly after eight, and I think

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Speaker 3: we I suspect we had about five or six We

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Speaker 3: were doing rounds and we were sort of going up

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Speaker 3: to get the shots, which we would then to count

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Speaker 3: into plastic tumblers.

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Speaker 1: And then we also brought some sprite which we mixed

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Speaker 1: with it.

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Speaker 3: So I can't say that I ever tasted Neat vodka,

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Speaker 3: but I remember just putting a little bit of sprite

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Speaker 3: in testing it to see how strong it was, and

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Speaker 3: I thought, oh, maybe they've diluted it.

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Speaker 1: It's quite weak.

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Speaker 3: So at that point, obviously I didn't have any concerns

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Speaker 3: because if something just tastes weak, you think, oh, well,

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Speaker 3: there's probably not a lot of ethanol.

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Speaker 1: In this a lot of alcohol.

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Speaker 3: But obviously, when I look back to that time, I think, well,

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Speaker 3: maybe that's because it wasn't actually ethanol. It was methanol,

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Speaker 3: so it kin'd of been pure methanol. Obviously we know that.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, for for whatever reason, Simone must have had more.

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Speaker 3: I mean, she had exactly the same volume, but the

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Speaker 3: concentration of what she had must have been more.

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Speaker 4: What was the vibe at the backpackers that night, so

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Speaker 4: I imagine there were people were in pretty high spirits. People

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Speaker 4: are on holidays there from all around the world. Everybody's

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Speaker 4: genuinely young. How many people were they at the at

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Speaker 4: that happy hour?

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Speaker 3: It's tricky because we just sat at the table and

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Speaker 3: I think we were probably the first to arrive, and

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Speaker 3: we were sitting with two Swedish backpackers and a Dutch

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Speaker 3: backpacker that we've met already. And I don't recall seeing

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Speaker 3: loads and loads of people there. I know there would

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Speaker 3: have been a few, but you know, I don't think

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Speaker 3: it would have been any more than thirty. And we

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Speaker 3: actually felt that there wasn't that much going on, so

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Speaker 3: we were able to play a card game, which normally

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Speaker 3: if there's a lot going on, you wouldn't even be

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Speaker 3: able to hear. So we were playing Piccolo, which is

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Speaker 3: a game on your phone. Yeah, I don't recall it

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Speaker 3: being particularly loud, and I think that's also why at

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Speaker 3: ten o'clock, when the drinks finished, the happy hour drinks finished,

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Speaker 3: everybody just went somewhere else because there wasn't an amazing atmosphere.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, it's supposed to be a party hostel, but

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Speaker 3: I didn't get that particular vibe that night. So yeah,

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Speaker 3: at ten o'clock, I actually went to bed because it

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Speaker 3: was either that I had jet lag or it was

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Speaker 3: that the method I was already starting to kick in,

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Speaker 3: so I thought, okay, I'm going to go to bed,

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Speaker 3: and the other three went onto a bar that we've

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Speaker 3: been to a couple of nights before, so we knew

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Speaker 3: that that one was okay. So they had a couple

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Speaker 3: of drinks there and then came back. But yeah, later

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Speaker 3: on we deduced that it can't have been that other

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Speaker 3: bar because I didn't go there, and I still had

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Speaker 3: I still had a problem.

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Speaker 2: And we was simone at this point.

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Speaker 1: So I got to bed about ten.

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Speaker 3: She'd come back with our male friend at about just

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Speaker 3: after midnight, so there was the three of us staying

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Speaker 3: in a private room, and the male friend. I'm not

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Speaker 3: going to mention his name because I don't think he

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Speaker 3: really wants to be mentioned, but he is somebody that

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Speaker 3: we both known for about ten years, and he met

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Speaker 3: Simone at secondary school.

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Speaker 2: Did you wake up when they came back.

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Speaker 1: No, I think I was just truly out for the

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Speaker 1: can I just I just passed out.

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Speaker 4: So at what point did you realize that you were unwell?

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Speaker 4: You had activity these planned the next day, So.

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Speaker 3: We woke up the following morning, I think at about

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Speaker 3: eight am, and we had this tour sort of half

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Speaker 3: an hour later, so we were sort of trying to

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Speaker 3: get everything ready and leave. But I just remember kind

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Speaker 3: of coming down the steps from the hostel room and thinking, oh,

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Speaker 3: I don't feel very steady here, and just generally feeling

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Speaker 3: a bit confused and not really knowing what was going on.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely no hunger whatsoever, which is quite unusual.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, because normally, if it's a straightforward hangover, you're like,

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Speaker 4: get me something.

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Speaker 2: Very sy yeah. Yeah, and both of you were the same, Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Very similar. I mean our male friend was similar at

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Speaker 3: that point too. I think we all just agreed that

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Speaker 3: something wasn't right, but we had no idea what it was,

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Speaker 3: and because our cognitions didn't seem to be functioning either,

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Speaker 3: we would never have come to the conclusion at the

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Speaker 3: time that it was anything other than a hangover, because

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Speaker 3: that was the only thing that sort of fitted with

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Speaker 3: what we'd done, and we all wait diferent food. We

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Speaker 3: definitely couldn't have put it down to food poisoning, so

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Speaker 3: that was the only conclusion we came to at the time.

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Speaker 3: And then obviously when we went to this tour, nothing

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Speaker 3: really improved where it would have done. Really for a hangover,

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Speaker 3: after you've had something to drink, had something to eat,

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Speaker 3: you'd expect to feel that little bit better. But during

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Speaker 3: that Blue Lagoon experience, Simone and I just had to

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Speaker 3: sit down and we didn't want to swim, And again

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Speaker 3: that's quite unusual for us because we're quite energetic. Especially

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Speaker 3: when you're hungover. You just want to be in water,

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Speaker 3: don't you, But no, not interested. And also our male

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Speaker 3: friend at the time must have been feeling a little

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Speaker 3: bit better because he was able to swim at that point,

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Speaker 3: So that was all a little bit of a blur.

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Speaker 3: But we actually took some pictures whilst we were there,

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Speaker 3: because there were a couple of tourists that came up

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Speaker 3: to us and said, can we have a picture with you, which,

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Speaker 3: you know, we took a picture with them, and that

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Speaker 3: is the last picture I have of Simone, and then

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Speaker 3: we went on to do this kayaking experience shortly after that.

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Speaker 2: Was that still at the Blue Lagoon. No, it was

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Speaker 2: a different location.

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Speaker 3: It was exactly where we'd done the tubing the day before,

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Speaker 3: but because we felt that it might be nice just

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Speaker 3: to sort of go at our own pace kayaking, that's

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Speaker 3: what we chose to do.

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Speaker 1: Except when we got.

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Speaker 3: There, Simone and I couldn't actually sit up to do

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Speaker 3: the kayaking, So instead of being able to use your core,

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Speaker 3: sit up straight and paddle, we just had to lay

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Speaker 3: flat on the backs of the kayaks and let the

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Speaker 3: people that were so basically running the tour they had

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Speaker 3: to get on our kayaks and actually paddle for us.

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Speaker 3: So again, that should have been a big red flag.

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Speaker 3: And I think at the time I was thinking this

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Speaker 3: is this is quite odd, but again, because my brain

222
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Speaker 3: wasn't functioning, I just thought, oh, this is you know,

223
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Speaker 3: a really severe hangover. You know, I just didn't seem

224
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Speaker 3: to have the lateral thinking of oh, could this be

225
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Speaker 3: methanol poison?

226
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Speaker 1: Could this be something else?

227
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Speaker 3: It It just seemed to be an easy conclusion for

228
00:12:07,845 --> 00:12:10,445
Speaker 3: me to come to. And I've saw Simone sort of

229
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Speaker 3: being sick off of her kayak with our male friend

230
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Speaker 3: on it, and I'm thinking, oh, she doesn't really do

231
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Speaker 3: that unless it's motion sickness, and I'm thinking it's really

232
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Speaker 3: motion sickness because we're so slow on these things. But anyway,

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Speaker 3: that was the first time that she'd actually vomited. And

234
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Speaker 3: then that experience, I was literally just looking up at

235
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Speaker 3: the sky waiting for the whole thing to end because

236
00:12:35,125 --> 00:12:37,565
Speaker 3: it was just pointless, you know, we weren't enjoying it.

237
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Speaker 3: And we got back to the hostel after that when

238
00:12:40,885 --> 00:12:43,485
Speaker 3: it had finished, and we were literally just waiting around

239
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Speaker 3: to get on our bus to VNTI Anne, which was

240
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Speaker 3: the next place that we needed to be, and that's

241
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Speaker 3: where we were staying in our hostel the following well

242
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Speaker 3: that night, but obviously we didn't end up getting there.

243
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Speaker 3: But yeah, back at the hostel, Simone actually asked me,

244
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Speaker 3: can you order me some food? And I'm thinking, oh, wow,

245
00:13:00,685 --> 00:13:03,365
Speaker 3: you actually feel like eating, so again, I wasn't too

246
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Speaker 3: worried about her at that point, so I'm thinking, what's

247
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Speaker 3: good that you want to eat, because I've got no interest.

248
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Speaker 3: So I ordered the food for her. She ate probably

249
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Speaker 3: half of it, and then probably an hour later, we

250
00:13:14,485 --> 00:13:18,125
Speaker 3: were just chilling by this pool at Nana backpacker by

251
00:13:18,285 --> 00:13:20,325
Speaker 3: on these sun loungers, and then we needed to get

252
00:13:20,365 --> 00:13:23,405
Speaker 3: on this bus. So probably around two o'clock we got

253
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Speaker 3: on the bus. I just literally passed out right at

254
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Speaker 3: the back of the bus. So I was knackered, and yeah,

255
00:13:30,325 --> 00:13:32,485
Speaker 3: just so fatigued that I just couldn't stay away to

256
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Speaker 3: talk to them. So I just sat at the back

257
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Speaker 3: of the bus and they sat at the front. And

258
00:13:36,725 --> 00:13:39,445
Speaker 3: then around an hour through that journey, probably at three

259
00:13:39,525 --> 00:13:43,685
Speaker 3: half us three, my male friend called out to me, Biff,

260
00:13:43,725 --> 00:13:45,325
Speaker 3: which is what someone used to call me, can you

261
00:13:45,365 --> 00:13:46,045
Speaker 3: get off the bus.

262
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Speaker 1: Simon's being sick vomiting.

263
00:13:48,565 --> 00:13:51,965
Speaker 3: So I got off, checked on her, and then I fainted,

264
00:13:52,485 --> 00:13:56,805
Speaker 3: and again, you know, in my head, I'm thinking, oh,

265
00:13:56,805 --> 00:13:59,525
Speaker 3: that's a bit strange, but again I didn't seem to

266
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Speaker 3: be able to understand that was quite severe in addition

267
00:14:03,285 --> 00:14:07,645
Speaker 3: to the other symptoms, so you know, and I'm also thinking, oh,

268
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Speaker 3: that can't have been a seizure, because I'm known I

269
00:14:10,885 --> 00:14:14,125
Speaker 3: have epilepsy. So I was thinking, oh god, it's not that,

270
00:14:14,165 --> 00:14:16,045
Speaker 3: because that would have been horrific, you know, that would

271
00:14:16,045 --> 00:14:18,685
Speaker 3: have been trick ending. So the fact that I'd managed

272
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Speaker 3: to literally just jump up after this faint and think,

273
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Speaker 3: oh I kind of been a seizure because I'd still

274
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Speaker 3: be out of it. We just got back on the bus,

275
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Speaker 3: and no one around us on this bus seemed to

276
00:14:27,725 --> 00:14:30,685
Speaker 3: take really any interest. No one said, you, guys, okay,

277
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Speaker 3: I just saw you faint, You're okay. Nothing, So again,

278
00:14:34,285 --> 00:14:35,965
Speaker 3: I suppose I just thought, oh, well, it can't be that.

279
00:14:36,005 --> 00:14:39,925
Speaker 4: Bad, yes, because you're reading the cues from the people

280
00:14:40,005 --> 00:14:43,645
Speaker 4: around you, and the people around you probably just assumed

281
00:14:43,645 --> 00:14:47,085
Speaker 4: that you were two girls who had a large night. Yeah,

282
00:14:47,125 --> 00:14:50,245
Speaker 4: and you were suffering the effects of a hangover. Had

283
00:14:50,285 --> 00:14:53,205
Speaker 4: they pulled the bus over because Simone was so seek

284
00:14:53,245 --> 00:14:54,205
Speaker 4: at that time.

285
00:14:54,125 --> 00:14:56,125
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

286
00:14:56,165 --> 00:14:59,205
Speaker 3: And then our male friend said to the driver, I

287
00:14:59,205 --> 00:15:00,965
Speaker 3: think we're going to need to drop us to a hospital,

288
00:15:01,045 --> 00:15:04,445
Speaker 3: which they were prepared to do luckily, but unfortunately we

289
00:15:04,485 --> 00:15:08,445
Speaker 3: went to a public hospital in Vieni Anne, who they

290
00:15:08,445 --> 00:15:11,885
Speaker 3: were just pretty to be honest. So when we got there,

291
00:15:12,485 --> 00:15:15,845
Speaker 3: I ended up just waiting outside with Simone because again

292
00:15:16,005 --> 00:15:19,005
Speaker 3: we didn't understand severity of what was going on. So

293
00:15:19,085 --> 00:15:21,325
Speaker 3: our male friend went in and we just watched him

294
00:15:21,325 --> 00:15:24,685
Speaker 3: go in, and we waited outside just to sort of rest.

295
00:15:24,925 --> 00:15:27,245
Speaker 3: There was some I think there's some benches or something

296
00:15:27,285 --> 00:15:29,285
Speaker 3: that we could sit on, so we were just sitting there,

297
00:15:30,085 --> 00:15:31,725
Speaker 3: and then after about an hour of doing that, I

298
00:15:31,765 --> 00:15:34,245
Speaker 3: said to Simone, I think I'm going to have to

299
00:15:34,285 --> 00:15:36,725
Speaker 3: go in because I'm not really feeling any better and

300
00:15:36,765 --> 00:15:39,125
Speaker 3: I want to see what's happened with our other friend.

301
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Speaker 1: So I went in.

302
00:15:40,285 --> 00:15:41,085
Speaker 2: Had he gone in?

303
00:15:41,405 --> 00:15:44,285
Speaker 4: Was he he was going in sort of to advocate

304
00:15:44,325 --> 00:15:47,005
Speaker 4: for you, to say, I'm with these two girls who

305
00:15:47,005 --> 00:15:47,845
Speaker 4: are unwill.

306
00:15:47,565 --> 00:15:51,325
Speaker 3: And particularly he felt unwell and that's why he went in.

307
00:15:51,485 --> 00:15:53,965
Speaker 3: But for us, we I think if I'd thought there

308
00:15:54,005 --> 00:15:56,445
Speaker 3: was something seriously wrong, I would have gone in, But

309
00:15:56,525 --> 00:15:59,045
Speaker 3: because again I'm just thinking, oh, it's a hangover, and

310
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Speaker 3: I think this is the trouble. When we see these

311
00:16:00,645 --> 00:16:03,005
Speaker 3: other cases, people just rest it off and they think

312
00:16:03,005 --> 00:16:04,485
Speaker 3: that it's going to be fine and they're just laying

313
00:16:04,525 --> 00:16:06,965
Speaker 3: in bed and then it all just goes wrong and

314
00:16:07,005 --> 00:16:10,525
Speaker 3: they don't actually realize the severity what's going on. So,

315
00:16:10,645 --> 00:16:13,565
Speaker 3: you know, the two Danish girls that are being sick,

316
00:16:13,725 --> 00:16:16,005
Speaker 3: blood and the messaging, and I'm being sick, you know,

317
00:16:16,445 --> 00:16:19,245
Speaker 3: large coming up. Surely that would be a red flag

318
00:16:19,285 --> 00:16:23,165
Speaker 3: if you were feeling normal, But because you'd ingested this stuff,

319
00:16:23,285 --> 00:16:24,565
Speaker 3: your brain just doesn't work.

320
00:16:25,045 --> 00:16:26,285
Speaker 2: I didn't realize that.

321
00:16:27,165 --> 00:16:30,085
Speaker 4: One of the side effects of mythanol poisoning is that

322
00:16:30,165 --> 00:16:34,125
Speaker 4: it has this cognitive effect on you, so that you

323
00:16:34,685 --> 00:16:36,925
Speaker 4: don't think clearly. Yeah.

324
00:16:36,965 --> 00:16:39,645
Speaker 3: And this is why I've had to kind of give

325
00:16:39,685 --> 00:16:44,005
Speaker 3: myself a bit of a bit of slack because at

326
00:16:44,005 --> 00:16:47,765
Speaker 3: the time I was poisoned too, and I didn't pick

327
00:16:47,845 --> 00:16:51,845
Speaker 3: up on what was going on. And I think having

328
00:16:51,885 --> 00:16:54,405
Speaker 3: sort of spoken to my mum after the event as well,

329
00:16:54,445 --> 00:16:57,165
Speaker 3: you know, my apparently when I rang her after the event,

330
00:16:57,245 --> 00:17:00,125
Speaker 3: my eyes were moving properly and my speech was slow,

331
00:17:00,285 --> 00:17:03,805
Speaker 3: and clearly it wasn't just me, you know, other people

332
00:17:03,845 --> 00:17:06,965
Speaker 3: could see it. It wasn't just like you know, I

333
00:17:07,005 --> 00:17:09,765
Speaker 3: thought my brain wasn't working. She could see it wasn't working. So,

334
00:17:11,365 --> 00:17:13,765
Speaker 3: you know, at least I don't have to blame myself

335
00:17:13,765 --> 00:17:15,765
Speaker 3: in that, you know, my brain was working perfectly, and

336
00:17:15,805 --> 00:17:19,645
Speaker 3: my friends still died. You know, I think in this situation,

337
00:17:20,725 --> 00:17:24,565
Speaker 3: we were all screwed basically. And also with Simone, you know,

338
00:17:25,045 --> 00:17:27,405
Speaker 3: she chose not to go into that public hospital as well,

339
00:17:27,645 --> 00:17:29,965
Speaker 3: and I did try and encourage her in there, but

340
00:17:30,085 --> 00:17:31,645
Speaker 3: she just wasn't having it. And she was one of

341
00:17:31,725 --> 00:17:34,845
Speaker 3: those strong willed people who, you know, you couldn't tell

342
00:17:34,845 --> 00:17:37,565
Speaker 3: her to not do something or to do something. She

343
00:17:37,565 --> 00:17:40,725
Speaker 3: would have to make that decision herself. She's a very

344
00:17:40,725 --> 00:17:41,725
Speaker 3: strong willed person.

345
00:17:42,245 --> 00:17:48,325
Speaker 2: And also she was a lawyer, So just knowing generally.

346
00:17:47,925 --> 00:17:52,725
Speaker 4: The personality type that become lawyers, they do tend to

347
00:17:52,765 --> 00:17:55,205
Speaker 4: be people who are very certain of themselves.

348
00:17:56,045 --> 00:17:58,045
Speaker 3: Yes, and I think she wouldn't have thought that it

349
00:17:58,085 --> 00:18:01,645
Speaker 3: was anything bad going on because similarly to me, she

350
00:18:01,765 --> 00:18:03,885
Speaker 3: probably thought it was just a hangover, because I think

351
00:18:03,925 --> 00:18:06,525
Speaker 3: she said to her other friend, this is a really

352
00:18:06,565 --> 00:18:09,725
Speaker 3: severe hangover. This was earlier in the day, so she

353
00:18:09,765 --> 00:18:12,765
Speaker 3: obviously hadn't come to the conclusion it was anything worse,

354
00:18:12,885 --> 00:18:16,285
Speaker 3: and she had no idea about methanol poisoning either. So anyway,

355
00:18:16,645 --> 00:18:18,725
Speaker 3: we sat outside this hospital for a while.

356
00:18:18,805 --> 00:18:19,525
Speaker 1: I then went in.

357
00:18:20,325 --> 00:18:21,925
Speaker 3: As soon as I got in, I said to them,

358
00:18:22,005 --> 00:18:24,685
Speaker 3: look what is this, And they were like, well, we

359
00:18:24,725 --> 00:18:28,485
Speaker 3: think it's food poisoning. I said, too rather friendly, it

360
00:18:28,525 --> 00:18:30,845
Speaker 3: can't be that, because we all have different diets.

361
00:18:30,925 --> 00:18:32,205
Speaker 1: It can't possibly be that.

362
00:18:32,365 --> 00:18:35,645
Speaker 3: I wasn't vomiting, I hadn't had diarrhe I hadn't even

363
00:18:35,645 --> 00:18:38,565
Speaker 3: got stomach pain. So they just kept going on with

364
00:18:38,645 --> 00:18:41,805
Speaker 3: that diagnosis, really, and until somemone came in, that was

365
00:18:41,845 --> 00:18:45,525
Speaker 3: still their diagnosis, and they took me up to an

366
00:18:45,605 --> 00:18:48,205
Speaker 3: ivy drip, which I was very reluctant to do. I

367
00:18:48,205 --> 00:18:50,965
Speaker 3: didn't really want them sticking needles in my hand without

368
00:18:51,005 --> 00:18:53,205
Speaker 3: knowing what it was that was actually going on. But

369
00:18:53,685 --> 00:18:56,245
Speaker 3: because our male friend had had success with feeling better,

370
00:18:56,325 --> 00:18:58,045
Speaker 3: I thought, all right, well I'll just continue on the

371
00:18:58,045 --> 00:19:00,805
Speaker 3: same treatment plan that you've started on. I think they

372
00:19:00,845 --> 00:19:03,525
Speaker 3: also gave me some anti sickness stuff later as well,

373
00:19:03,565 --> 00:19:05,805
Speaker 3: but at that time I didn't feel that bad.

374
00:19:06,125 --> 00:19:09,805
Speaker 4: What was the situation at the hospital, what, what was

375
00:19:09,885 --> 00:19:12,365
Speaker 4: the makeup of it was? I imagine it was quite

376
00:19:12,365 --> 00:19:15,645
Speaker 4: a humble DIYer. Yeah it was, yeah.

377
00:19:15,485 --> 00:19:17,205
Speaker 1: Right world, Yeah so it was.

378
00:19:17,405 --> 00:19:20,045
Speaker 3: When you went in, it was one big ward, obviously

379
00:19:20,045 --> 00:19:23,045
Speaker 3: really overcrowded. There was just a separate room which was

380
00:19:23,125 --> 00:19:26,445
Speaker 3: used as their sort of version of ICU. Not many doctors,

381
00:19:27,085 --> 00:19:30,485
Speaker 3: very few nursing stuff sort of available, And I remember

382
00:19:30,485 --> 00:19:32,365
Speaker 3: actually going to the toilet in there at one point

383
00:19:32,565 --> 00:19:35,445
Speaker 3: and there was no pound wash, there was there was

384
00:19:35,485 --> 00:19:38,445
Speaker 3: no toilet paper. I actually ripped my canula out to

385
00:19:38,565 --> 00:19:40,685
Speaker 3: use the toilet. That was basically what we were, what

386
00:19:40,685 --> 00:19:43,845
Speaker 3: we're talking about. I imagine the care for other people

387
00:19:44,005 --> 00:19:46,205
Speaker 3: wasn't great. If we were told that we had food poisoning,

388
00:19:46,205 --> 00:19:48,525
Speaker 3: then I'm sure there were probably other misdiagnoses going on

389
00:19:48,565 --> 00:19:52,085
Speaker 3: there too, But anyway, I eventually got myself in there,

390
00:19:52,285 --> 00:19:54,405
Speaker 3: That's what they said, and then I waited probably another

391
00:19:54,445 --> 00:19:58,285
Speaker 3: hour before Simone eventually came in and she walked in.

392
00:19:58,405 --> 00:20:00,165
Speaker 1: She's still talking again.

393
00:20:00,205 --> 00:20:02,045
Speaker 3: I'm thinking, well, you're pretty much the same as me,

394
00:20:02,125 --> 00:20:04,365
Speaker 3: except that you've been vomiting, which is obviously a bit

395
00:20:04,405 --> 00:20:04,925
Speaker 3: more severe.

396
00:20:05,645 --> 00:20:07,845
Speaker 1: So they put her in a bed, which wasn't really

397
00:20:07,965 --> 00:20:08,725
Speaker 1: part of the ward.

398
00:20:08,845 --> 00:20:11,085
Speaker 3: It seemed like the hospital was so overcrowded that she'd

399
00:20:11,085 --> 00:20:14,165
Speaker 3: sort of gone on like a gurney type I don't know,

400
00:20:14,245 --> 00:20:17,685
Speaker 3: like a stretchery type thing, you know, those wheelie beds,

401
00:20:18,405 --> 00:20:20,885
Speaker 3: And I think she would have got in there maybe

402
00:20:21,005 --> 00:20:25,285
Speaker 3: past five six o'clock, and then they started her on

403
00:20:25,285 --> 00:20:27,605
Speaker 3: all the same course of treatment, and I also gave

404
00:20:27,645 --> 00:20:31,605
Speaker 3: her some electrolytes, which she vomited up immediately, and I

405
00:20:31,685 --> 00:20:34,405
Speaker 3: checked her heart rate actually with my watch, and it

406
00:20:34,445 --> 00:20:35,445
Speaker 3: was eighty two.

407
00:20:35,645 --> 00:20:37,245
Speaker 1: So I thought, oh, well, you know, it's a.

408
00:20:37,245 --> 00:20:41,205
Speaker 3: Bit high, but it's not overly overly concerning at this point,

409
00:20:41,925 --> 00:20:45,845
Speaker 3: and at about eight half past eight, we noticed that

410
00:20:45,885 --> 00:20:49,005
Speaker 3: her breathing had changed and she started gasping for air,

411
00:20:49,805 --> 00:20:53,525
Speaker 3: and that, for me was when I thought, crap. I

412
00:20:53,565 --> 00:20:56,565
Speaker 3: really have no idea what this is, because a hangover

413
00:20:56,605 --> 00:20:59,645
Speaker 3: would never lead to that, and I had no other

414
00:20:59,685 --> 00:21:02,725
Speaker 3: sort of differentials in my head. And they said to me,

415
00:21:03,245 --> 00:21:07,045
Speaker 3: we think that she's got she's had some drugs. So

416
00:21:07,205 --> 00:21:11,605
Speaker 3: is it amthetamines? Has she taken amfetamines? No, for God's sake,

417
00:21:11,765 --> 00:21:14,885
Speaker 3: just listen to what I'm saying. So they just kept

418
00:21:14,885 --> 00:21:17,645
Speaker 3: going on about drugs, and at this point she also

419
00:21:17,685 --> 00:21:19,885
Speaker 3: needed to be restrained because she was also ripping out

420
00:21:19,885 --> 00:21:25,165
Speaker 3: her canula. And yeah, we were obviously just confused because

421
00:21:25,205 --> 00:21:27,245
Speaker 3: we weren't like that. So we just thought, well, why

422
00:21:27,325 --> 00:21:30,405
Speaker 3: is it that she's doing that, you know, And they

423
00:21:30,445 --> 00:21:32,685
Speaker 3: moved her into this separate part of the hospital which

424
00:21:32,725 --> 00:21:34,645
Speaker 3: was just a three bed ICU room.

425
00:21:35,125 --> 00:21:37,245
Speaker 1: So I went in there with her, tried to talk

426
00:21:37,285 --> 00:21:39,125
Speaker 1: to her, and she just looked.

427
00:21:39,085 --> 00:21:41,605
Speaker 2: How was she at that point? Was she?

428
00:21:44,085 --> 00:21:47,005
Speaker 3: No, she had this oxygen in her nose, but she

429
00:21:47,005 --> 00:21:48,205
Speaker 3: she wasn't able to talk to me.

430
00:21:48,285 --> 00:21:50,125
Speaker 1: She wasn't even able to look at me at this point.

431
00:21:50,205 --> 00:21:53,325
Speaker 3: So I'm saying to her, look, try and calm down,

432
00:21:53,325 --> 00:21:54,925
Speaker 3: because they were saying to me, is she anxious?

433
00:21:54,925 --> 00:21:56,405
Speaker 1: And I'm like, no, she doesn't get anxious.

434
00:21:56,405 --> 00:21:58,205
Speaker 3: But I was trying to say to her, look trying

435
00:21:58,205 --> 00:22:02,325
Speaker 3: and concentrate on me, like but she just looked vacant.

436
00:22:02,365 --> 00:22:04,165
Speaker 1: She just looked ahead. She also looking at me.

437
00:22:04,565 --> 00:22:07,325
Speaker 3: So that's when I knew that something obviously wasn't right

438
00:22:07,365 --> 00:22:10,245
Speaker 3: with her brain. And luckily, our male friend was on

439
00:22:10,285 --> 00:22:12,565
Speaker 3: his phone and he had his phone connection all set

440
00:22:12,605 --> 00:22:14,765
Speaker 3: up so that he was using the internet where I didn't,

441
00:22:15,285 --> 00:22:18,045
Speaker 3: and he managed to find a private hospital which was

442
00:22:18,245 --> 00:22:21,205
Speaker 3: I think twenty minutes away, so he called them. I

443
00:22:21,205 --> 00:22:23,285
Speaker 3: think the first call was made at about nine pm

444
00:22:23,725 --> 00:22:26,525
Speaker 3: and they said to him, look, you need to have

445
00:22:26,565 --> 00:22:28,805
Speaker 3: insurance to come here, and we were obviously like what

446
00:22:28,885 --> 00:22:32,245
Speaker 3: we do but they said, oh, we need proof, and

447
00:22:32,645 --> 00:22:35,645
Speaker 3: basically wasn't getting anywhere and they weren't coming. So he

448
00:22:35,685 --> 00:22:38,565
Speaker 3: called them again at half past nine, same thing, we

449
00:22:38,605 --> 00:22:42,125
Speaker 3: need to see the insurance. So anyway, we rang them

450
00:22:42,125 --> 00:22:45,485
Speaker 3: a third time and I ended up saying to the doctor,

451
00:22:45,525 --> 00:22:47,525
Speaker 3: can you please speak to this hospital because we're not

452
00:22:47,565 --> 00:22:49,805
Speaker 3: getting anywhere here, like we need to be somewhere else.

453
00:22:50,685 --> 00:22:53,525
Speaker 1: And luckily she did and they did come and collect us.

454
00:22:53,605 --> 00:22:56,965
Speaker 3: But by the time that they came probably half past ten,

455
00:22:57,485 --> 00:22:59,845
Speaker 3: and that's probably quite a long delay for somebody who's

456
00:22:59,845 --> 00:23:00,725
Speaker 3: struggling to breathe.

457
00:23:01,485 --> 00:23:04,445
Speaker 1: So we got to this private hospital.

458
00:23:04,445 --> 00:23:06,325
Speaker 3: I know he got there at twenty past eleven, as

459
00:23:06,365 --> 00:23:09,325
Speaker 3: that's what it said on the report. But during that journey,

460
00:23:09,405 --> 00:23:11,885
Speaker 3: I've got absolutely no recollection. I remember sitting at the

461
00:23:11,885 --> 00:23:14,525
Speaker 3: front next to the driver and literally just falling asleep.

462
00:23:14,885 --> 00:23:19,405
Speaker 1: Don't remember the journey.

463
00:23:20,325 --> 00:23:21,285
Speaker 2: After the break.

464
00:23:21,565 --> 00:23:25,765
Speaker 4: Bethany shares what unfolded during those critical hours at the

465
00:23:25,805 --> 00:23:34,765
Speaker 4: private hospital. At this time while you're trying to advocate

466
00:23:35,205 --> 00:23:40,845
Speaker 4: for simone where you've realized is in different circumstances than

467
00:23:40,885 --> 00:23:43,685
Speaker 4: you were, but your own circumstances were terrible.

468
00:23:44,565 --> 00:23:45,645
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, it wasn't great.

469
00:23:45,725 --> 00:23:48,605
Speaker 3: I was just feeling so fatigued, most fatigued I've ever

470
00:23:48,605 --> 00:23:49,325
Speaker 3: felt in my life.

471
00:23:49,405 --> 00:23:50,365
Speaker 1: It was just awful.

472
00:23:51,005 --> 00:23:55,485
Speaker 3: And then when we arrived, I vaguely remember our male

473
00:23:55,525 --> 00:23:58,445
Speaker 3: friend saying to the paramedic, do you think this could

474
00:23:58,445 --> 00:24:00,565
Speaker 3: be methanol poisoning?

475
00:24:00,565 --> 00:24:02,245
Speaker 1: You'd actually done a bit of research on his.

476
00:24:02,245 --> 00:24:06,565
Speaker 3: Phone, and obviously I was like, what, you know, we've

477
00:24:06,605 --> 00:24:09,325
Speaker 3: been poisoned, and they said, well, yeah, actually it could be,

478
00:24:09,405 --> 00:24:12,405
Speaker 3: because we've seen four or five cases of this before,

479
00:24:12,525 --> 00:24:15,405
Speaker 3: so is every chance that it is that. But what's

480
00:24:15,445 --> 00:24:18,245
Speaker 3: frustrating is that in the media there's no reports of

481
00:24:18,285 --> 00:24:22,005
Speaker 3: methanol poisoning ever in Lao, So it's frustrating that it

482
00:24:22,045 --> 00:24:25,765
Speaker 3: has happened there before, but it's never been recorded. So

483
00:24:26,405 --> 00:24:28,445
Speaker 3: when we got in there, I've got a handover all

484
00:24:28,485 --> 00:24:31,765
Speaker 3: the passports, signing to sort of say we give our

485
00:24:31,765 --> 00:24:35,005
Speaker 3: consent for everything that's happening. They said to me, look,

486
00:24:35,005 --> 00:24:37,805
Speaker 3: we're going to take her off for hemodialysis, clean her blood,

487
00:24:38,325 --> 00:24:40,365
Speaker 3: and hopefully, you know, we're going to do our best

488
00:24:40,365 --> 00:24:43,885
Speaker 3: for her. So they put us into sort of a

489
00:24:43,925 --> 00:24:46,365
Speaker 3: triage area of the hospital. We were given a couple

490
00:24:46,405 --> 00:24:49,125
Speaker 3: of beds there while Simone was separate to us and

491
00:24:49,325 --> 00:24:52,485
Speaker 3: was taken off for that. And yeah, they said to me,

492
00:24:52,565 --> 00:24:54,085
Speaker 3: you know, we'll do the best we can to save

493
00:24:54,125 --> 00:24:56,165
Speaker 3: her life, but we think she's in here a bit late.

494
00:24:57,005 --> 00:24:58,845
Speaker 3: And I'm thinking, well, it's not possible. You know, we're

495
00:24:58,845 --> 00:25:00,885
Speaker 3: all the same, we've had the same stuff. You know,

496
00:25:01,045 --> 00:25:03,365
Speaker 3: there's no reason why she can't come back from this.

497
00:25:04,085 --> 00:25:06,765
Speaker 3: So I wasn't too concerned, and also in my state,

498
00:25:07,085 --> 00:25:08,925
Speaker 3: I wasn't in a position to be concerned. I was

499
00:25:08,965 --> 00:25:10,925
Speaker 3: just tied, so I was just falling. As soon as

500
00:25:10,925 --> 00:25:12,765
Speaker 3: they'd come over to get me to sign something, I'd

501
00:25:12,765 --> 00:25:16,285
Speaker 3: fall straight to sleep. So the only thing I remember

502
00:25:16,365 --> 00:25:20,125
Speaker 3: was sort of being moved to icee you and coming

503
00:25:20,165 --> 00:25:23,805
Speaker 3: round the following day waking up asking how she was,

504
00:25:23,925 --> 00:25:25,965
Speaker 3: and they said, well, actually we think she's a bit

505
00:25:26,005 --> 00:25:28,685
Speaker 3: better this morning because you know, I cleaned her blood.

506
00:25:29,125 --> 00:25:32,005
Speaker 1: All of her organs are you know, they should be clean.

507
00:25:32,045 --> 00:25:34,245
Speaker 3: Now. We're going to do some bloods on her check them.

508
00:25:34,285 --> 00:25:36,565
Speaker 3: And the next thing I heard, all of her organs

509
00:25:36,605 --> 00:25:39,445
Speaker 3: were fine. It was just you know, they've given us

510
00:25:39,445 --> 00:25:42,085
Speaker 3: some sedation because she was so agitated because of the

511
00:25:42,085 --> 00:25:45,565
Speaker 3: breathing thing, and she'd also had five seizures, but at

512
00:25:45,605 --> 00:25:48,485
Speaker 3: the time I was told it was one seizure, which

513
00:25:48,525 --> 00:25:50,325
Speaker 3: I thought, you know, one seizure or you can come

514
00:25:50,325 --> 00:25:52,725
Speaker 3: back from that. But because it was five, that's a

515
00:25:52,725 --> 00:25:54,805
Speaker 3: lot of seizures for somebody that doesn't have seizures.

516
00:25:55,005 --> 00:25:57,405
Speaker 2: Were you able to see her at that time.

517
00:25:57,405 --> 00:26:00,685
Speaker 3: No, No, So with the information that I had, I

518
00:26:00,885 --> 00:26:03,965
Speaker 3: made the decision to contact her mum and say, look,

519
00:26:04,005 --> 00:26:07,205
Speaker 3: apparently she's feeling better this morning. But I told her

520
00:26:07,245 --> 00:26:11,485
Speaker 3: what the diagnosis was, metabolic sidosis as a result of

521
00:26:11,525 --> 00:26:15,845
Speaker 3: being poisoned with methanol, which is where your blood is

522
00:26:15,885 --> 00:26:18,885
Speaker 3: really acidic as a result of the form of acid

523
00:26:18,925 --> 00:26:23,365
Speaker 3: and formaldehyde that is the byproducts of consuming methanol.

524
00:26:24,005 --> 00:26:27,245
Speaker 1: So yeah, that's kind of what we knew at the time.

525
00:26:27,445 --> 00:26:30,725
Speaker 3: I told her mum that over text message because I

526
00:26:30,885 --> 00:26:32,645
Speaker 3: wasn't really in a position to have a phone call

527
00:26:32,685 --> 00:26:37,485
Speaker 3: with somebody, and she came straight back saying, I hope

528
00:26:37,485 --> 00:26:40,885
Speaker 3: she gets better soon, and I was thinking, you know, yeah,

529
00:26:40,885 --> 00:26:43,005
Speaker 3: I hope so too. But I kind of I suppose,

530
00:26:43,005 --> 00:26:45,525
Speaker 3: I kind of thought maybe she'd want to speak to

531
00:26:45,565 --> 00:26:47,645
Speaker 3: me or kind of get a bit more clarification, but

532
00:26:47,805 --> 00:26:51,565
Speaker 3: her mum is very much always sort of thinks about

533
00:26:51,565 --> 00:26:54,605
Speaker 3: the best case scenario, whereas I'm always what is the

534
00:26:54,645 --> 00:26:55,605
Speaker 3: worst case scenario?

535
00:26:56,285 --> 00:26:57,605
Speaker 2: A catastrophized her?

536
00:26:57,845 --> 00:27:00,205
Speaker 3: I am, yeah, So I'd had that conversation with her,

537
00:27:00,205 --> 00:27:02,165
Speaker 3: and I thought, oh, well she thinks it's all right,

538
00:27:02,245 --> 00:27:06,245
Speaker 3: then yeah, hopefully it will be, and which.

539
00:27:06,085 --> 00:27:07,165
Speaker 1: I shouldn't think it was all right.

540
00:27:07,205 --> 00:27:10,565
Speaker 3: But you know the way that I that she sent back,

541
00:27:10,605 --> 00:27:13,245
Speaker 3: I wasn't worried that she was really worried, if you

542
00:27:13,245 --> 00:27:13,805
Speaker 3: see what I mean.

543
00:27:14,205 --> 00:27:16,285
Speaker 2: But then there was a bit she wasn't panicking.

544
00:27:16,445 --> 00:27:19,645
Speaker 1: She wasn't panicking. No way. My mom would have been like,

545
00:27:19,765 --> 00:27:20,845
Speaker 1: oh God, what's happened?

546
00:27:20,965 --> 00:27:23,365
Speaker 4: Had you called your mom? Had you messaged your mum

547
00:27:23,445 --> 00:27:24,085
Speaker 4: at this point?

548
00:27:24,165 --> 00:27:25,845
Speaker 2: Or were your nuts? Just with Simon?

549
00:27:26,125 --> 00:27:29,245
Speaker 3: I was waiting because I also didn't want to worry

550
00:27:29,685 --> 00:27:33,325
Speaker 3: my parents if there was going to be some kind

551
00:27:33,365 --> 00:27:36,725
Speaker 3: of disaster with myself. You know, I wanted to be

552
00:27:36,805 --> 00:27:38,485
Speaker 3: clued up, and I didn't want to have a phone

553
00:27:38,485 --> 00:27:39,805
Speaker 3: call and say, well, I don't know, I don't know.

554
00:27:40,005 --> 00:27:41,845
Speaker 3: I wanted to know what was going on a bit

555
00:27:41,885 --> 00:27:44,565
Speaker 3: more before I had sort of made calls. And also

556
00:27:44,605 --> 00:27:47,245
Speaker 3: I wasn't really with it enough to get through a

557
00:27:47,245 --> 00:27:50,245
Speaker 3: phone call either. So that all happened. I think the

558
00:27:51,165 --> 00:27:53,805
Speaker 3: either later on that day or followed the following day,

559
00:27:53,925 --> 00:27:56,045
Speaker 3: but the text message was kind of the first thing

560
00:27:56,045 --> 00:28:00,205
Speaker 3: that we we got done, because you know, I didn't

561
00:28:00,285 --> 00:28:03,685
Speaker 3: really want to be responsible for what was going on

562
00:28:03,765 --> 00:28:06,565
Speaker 3: with her because I have my own stuff to deal with,

563
00:28:06,805 --> 00:28:10,005
Speaker 3: and also I was thinking, well, yeah, maybe she will

564
00:28:10,045 --> 00:28:10,965
Speaker 3: need to come over at some point.

565
00:28:10,965 --> 00:28:11,885
Speaker 1: She needs to know now.

566
00:28:12,365 --> 00:28:16,205
Speaker 3: So anyway, we then kind of got moved later on

567
00:28:16,285 --> 00:28:18,445
Speaker 3: that day, so we've been in ICU I think for

568
00:28:18,445 --> 00:28:20,685
Speaker 3: about twenty four hours. We then got moved to a

569
00:28:20,725 --> 00:28:24,765
Speaker 3: separate part of that hospital to just basically recover because

570
00:28:24,765 --> 00:28:26,725
Speaker 3: we weren't kind of critical anymore.

571
00:28:27,005 --> 00:28:29,685
Speaker 1: They'd managed to give us some sodium by carbonate.

572
00:28:29,485 --> 00:28:31,805
Speaker 2: And Simone was we're still at this point.

573
00:28:31,685 --> 00:28:35,525
Speaker 3: Still in ICU, so she always was in ICU. We've

574
00:28:35,605 --> 00:28:38,085
Speaker 3: been given pretty much everything you can think of, you know,

575
00:28:38,205 --> 00:28:42,165
Speaker 3: sodium by carbonate, potassium, magnesium. The only symptom that I

576
00:28:42,245 --> 00:28:45,125
Speaker 3: really had that I can recall being particularly severe in

577
00:28:45,165 --> 00:28:50,565
Speaker 3: that hospital was really really severe burning in suphagus. So

578
00:28:50,605 --> 00:28:52,805
Speaker 3: they given me this potassium drink that I needed to

579
00:28:52,885 --> 00:28:55,565
Speaker 3: drink to get my potasium levels up, and I say, look,

580
00:28:55,605 --> 00:28:57,205
Speaker 3: can you give this to me in another form because

581
00:28:57,245 --> 00:28:58,925
Speaker 3: I literally can't get this down, and they were like, you.

582
00:28:58,925 --> 00:29:00,565
Speaker 1: Have to drink it. We've got no other way of

583
00:29:00,565 --> 00:29:01,165
Speaker 1: giving that to you.

584
00:29:02,165 --> 00:29:03,965
Speaker 3: So I had to force myself to drink it, but

585
00:29:04,045 --> 00:29:06,045
Speaker 3: every single sit it was burning, so I had to

586
00:29:06,045 --> 00:29:08,005
Speaker 3: have tiny bit of water to flush it down, but

587
00:29:08,045 --> 00:29:10,485
Speaker 3: even the water was burning. It was just obviously the

588
00:29:10,525 --> 00:29:13,605
Speaker 3: former CASSID had got in and that's the area that

589
00:29:13,685 --> 00:29:16,205
Speaker 3: it was kind of attacking, where I think for the

590
00:29:16,245 --> 00:29:19,085
Speaker 3: others they were getting more stomach pain and more stomach

591
00:29:19,205 --> 00:29:22,485
Speaker 3: related stuff. But actually, other than the nausea, I wasn't

592
00:29:22,485 --> 00:29:26,485
Speaker 3: getting too much stomach pain at that time, so for me,

593
00:29:26,565 --> 00:29:28,765
Speaker 3: I think that was the most severe part. But that

594
00:29:28,805 --> 00:29:31,805
Speaker 3: obviously had improved a bit, and they'd given me a

595
00:29:31,805 --> 00:29:35,965
Speaker 3: lot of gastro drugs, you know, about four different stomach

596
00:29:36,085 --> 00:29:40,205
Speaker 3: related drugs to take. So I was, yeah, just discharged

597
00:29:40,245 --> 00:29:42,845
Speaker 3: to this other part of the hospital to basically just

598
00:29:42,925 --> 00:29:45,965
Speaker 3: drink plenty of water and to just try and sleep,

599
00:29:46,045 --> 00:29:47,125
Speaker 3: but obviously, given what had.

600
00:29:47,045 --> 00:29:49,445
Speaker 1: Happened, there was no way that sleep was on the cards.

601
00:29:50,285 --> 00:29:52,605
Speaker 3: A male friend and I went off and we spent

602
00:29:52,645 --> 00:29:59,045
Speaker 3: another I think three nights on that separate ward just recovering,

603
00:29:59,965 --> 00:30:03,925
Speaker 3: and during that time her mum had managed to book

604
00:30:03,965 --> 00:30:06,885
Speaker 3: flights to come over because she was meant to have

605
00:30:06,885 --> 00:30:10,445
Speaker 3: come around from sedationan I think doing day or the

606
00:30:10,525 --> 00:30:12,885
Speaker 3: day after, and that she still hadn't. So he said

607
00:30:12,925 --> 00:30:15,605
Speaker 3: to Sue, you know, she was meant to have come

608
00:30:15,645 --> 00:30:18,685
Speaker 3: around from sedasia, but she hasn't. Basically, I think it'd

609
00:30:18,725 --> 00:30:20,965
Speaker 3: be good if you can get over here. So that's

610
00:30:20,965 --> 00:30:22,645
Speaker 3: when she booked her flights.

611
00:30:23,325 --> 00:30:29,125
Speaker 4: So simone, as you said, was under sedation, the expectation

612
00:30:29,205 --> 00:30:31,685
Speaker 4: would have been that she would have regained consciousness and

613
00:30:31,765 --> 00:30:36,805
Speaker 4: come to So who had been messaging her mum Sue

614
00:30:36,845 --> 00:30:40,565
Speaker 4: to tell her that her daughter had not me So again.

615
00:30:40,445 --> 00:30:44,405
Speaker 3: Contrically the lack of communication in that hospital because no

616
00:30:44,445 --> 00:30:47,605
Speaker 3: one really spoke good English. It was having to go

617
00:30:47,925 --> 00:30:51,325
Speaker 3: via me because they didn't seem to be able to

618
00:30:51,365 --> 00:30:54,045
Speaker 3: call her and tell her this, So I was having

619
00:30:54,085 --> 00:30:58,365
Speaker 3: to be the sort of interpreter. But yeah, I had

620
00:30:58,405 --> 00:31:02,885
Speaker 3: a conversation with the new resurgeon when she wasn't waking up.

621
00:31:02,965 --> 00:31:03,925
Speaker 1: I then spoke to him.

622
00:31:04,405 --> 00:31:07,245
Speaker 3: He said, look, what's happening is that the left side

623
00:31:07,285 --> 00:31:10,045
Speaker 3: of her brain is swollen and we need to do

624
00:31:10,165 --> 00:31:13,445
Speaker 3: a decompression craniotomy to release this swelling on her brain.

625
00:31:13,925 --> 00:31:15,845
Speaker 3: Otherwise it's just not going to get better and she

626
00:31:15,925 --> 00:31:17,765
Speaker 3: could be in a coma.

627
00:31:17,445 --> 00:31:21,365
Speaker 4: Which is a massive This is a massive operation. It was,

628
00:31:21,405 --> 00:31:22,805
Speaker 4: but obviously we had no other option.

629
00:31:22,845 --> 00:31:25,005
Speaker 3: And he said, look, it's about twenty percent chance it

630
00:31:25,045 --> 00:31:27,645
Speaker 3: will actually do what it needs to do, but there

631
00:31:27,685 --> 00:31:30,965
Speaker 3: will be other surgeries and other sort of risks as

632
00:31:30,965 --> 00:31:33,285
Speaker 3: well that could happen, so they could be bleeding, etc.

633
00:31:34,485 --> 00:31:36,045
Speaker 3: And even if it did work, we would then need

634
00:31:36,085 --> 00:31:37,165
Speaker 3: to do another surgery.

635
00:31:37,365 --> 00:31:40,245
Speaker 1: And I was like, this is just nuts.

636
00:31:40,285 --> 00:31:40,445
Speaker 4: It was.

637
00:31:40,605 --> 00:31:44,645
Speaker 3: It was so surreal. I didn't think it was even happening.

638
00:31:44,765 --> 00:31:48,525
Speaker 3: I was like, am I in some kind of alternate universe?

639
00:31:48,685 --> 00:31:51,485
Speaker 3: Like word just really didn't understand what was going on.

640
00:31:51,485 --> 00:31:52,205
Speaker 2: At this point.

641
00:31:52,245 --> 00:31:56,085
Speaker 4: Bethany, have you been able to lay eyes on somemone

642
00:31:56,325 --> 00:31:58,845
Speaker 4: or are you still in the two different parts of

643
00:31:58,885 --> 00:31:59,525
Speaker 4: the hospital.

644
00:31:59,645 --> 00:32:02,005
Speaker 3: I did see her, yeah, and as soon as I

645
00:32:02,045 --> 00:32:06,805
Speaker 3: saw her, she had a tube down her, So no,

646
00:32:06,925 --> 00:32:10,365
Speaker 3: it wasn't a nice sight. I just remember looking at

647
00:32:10,405 --> 00:32:12,845
Speaker 3: her and thinking like come on, like you need to

648
00:32:12,885 --> 00:32:15,285
Speaker 3: get out of this, this is ridiculous. Come on, But

649
00:32:15,365 --> 00:32:18,445
Speaker 3: she just she was too far gone. You know, she

650
00:32:18,485 --> 00:32:20,405
Speaker 3: would have already been brain damaged. I think in that

651
00:32:20,445 --> 00:32:23,485
Speaker 3: public hospital when I was trying to look at her

652
00:32:23,525 --> 00:32:25,885
Speaker 3: and she was looking beyond me. I think her brain

653
00:32:25,925 --> 00:32:28,485
Speaker 3: damage was done then, to be honest, but I didn't

654
00:32:28,525 --> 00:32:31,525
Speaker 3: know that at the time, and I was just I

655
00:32:31,565 --> 00:32:33,205
Speaker 3: was just thinking, oh, well, she's had the same as me,

656
00:32:33,245 --> 00:32:38,285
Speaker 3: she'd be fine, and yeah, she obviously wasn't fine. So yeah,

657
00:32:38,325 --> 00:32:42,245
Speaker 3: this conversation with the nearest surgeon, he said, well, can

658
00:32:42,285 --> 00:32:46,165
Speaker 3: you ring Simone's mum then and explain that? And that's

659
00:32:46,205 --> 00:32:47,645
Speaker 3: what I had to do. So I caught my dad

660
00:32:47,685 --> 00:32:50,885
Speaker 3: first and said, you know, the statistics of what was

661
00:32:50,965 --> 00:32:54,445
Speaker 3: likely to happen, and they said, oh god, okay, I'm

662
00:32:54,445 --> 00:32:56,885
Speaker 3: going to ring Sue. And we had a three way

663
00:32:56,885 --> 00:33:00,965
Speaker 3: conversation where basically I ended up telling Sue what the

664
00:33:01,045 --> 00:33:04,405
Speaker 3: deal was, and Sue was very practical and said, yes,

665
00:33:04,485 --> 00:33:05,925
Speaker 3: I'll get the forms back straight away.

666
00:33:06,005 --> 00:33:07,845
Speaker 1: Yes, we'll have to do it. You know, I think

667
00:33:07,885 --> 00:33:09,685
Speaker 1: she just got into that mindset.

668
00:33:09,205 --> 00:33:13,765
Speaker 4: Of because you two had grown up together. I imagine

669
00:33:13,765 --> 00:33:17,245
Speaker 4: that you'd seen quite a lot of Sue, yes, Simon's

670
00:33:17,325 --> 00:33:20,645
Speaker 4: mum as well, growing up, so she knew you very well,

671
00:33:21,485 --> 00:33:25,245
Speaker 4: and you her. Did your parents know each other as well?

672
00:33:26,245 --> 00:33:29,645
Speaker 3: Yeah, we used to spend Christmas Eve together, so we'd

673
00:33:29,765 --> 00:33:31,805
Speaker 3: go for a meal, and that's actually what we're going

674
00:33:31,845 --> 00:33:34,005
Speaker 3: to be doing this year as well, and we've done

675
00:33:34,045 --> 00:33:37,925
Speaker 3: it for the last few years quite religiously, so that

676
00:33:38,005 --> 00:33:38,925
Speaker 3: will continue.

677
00:33:39,525 --> 00:33:42,925
Speaker 4: So soon knew the makeup of you and knew that

678
00:33:43,165 --> 00:33:48,045
Speaker 4: you how grave the situation was for you to be

679
00:33:48,125 --> 00:33:51,165
Speaker 4: calling her and saying this is the operation of said

680
00:33:51,245 --> 00:33:52,245
Speaker 4: needs to be done.

681
00:33:52,485 --> 00:33:54,485
Speaker 3: I think she would have known from the brain surgery

682
00:33:54,565 --> 00:33:57,445
Speaker 3: being mentioned that really the chances were very slim, but

683
00:33:57,605 --> 00:33:59,605
Speaker 3: she just had no other option but to kind of

684
00:33:59,845 --> 00:34:02,645
Speaker 3: come over because not only for Simone, but for us,

685
00:34:02,725 --> 00:34:05,645
Speaker 3: because we were just in a state of like, how

686
00:34:05,685 --> 00:34:08,005
Speaker 3: can we deal with this on our own? Like you know,

687
00:34:08,285 --> 00:34:11,525
Speaker 3: it was just torrific being in that hospital and the

688
00:34:11,605 --> 00:34:14,685
Speaker 3: lack of communication as well, you know, and it was

689
00:34:14,725 --> 00:34:17,725
Speaker 3: good to have an adult there who it could sort

690
00:34:17,725 --> 00:34:18,925
Speaker 3: of take responsibility for.

691
00:34:18,965 --> 00:34:20,645
Speaker 1: What was going on as well.

692
00:34:21,565 --> 00:34:23,805
Speaker 3: Yes, because yeah, it was a lot for me to

693
00:34:23,845 --> 00:34:29,085
Speaker 3: sort of mentally deal with everything, the trauma and everything else.

694
00:34:30,325 --> 00:34:33,365
Speaker 4: At this point, how are you feeling mentally? Have you

695
00:34:33,485 --> 00:34:38,325
Speaker 4: emerged from that sort of the vacancy of the methanol poisoning.

696
00:34:38,645 --> 00:34:41,205
Speaker 2: You're not one hundred percent obviously, Oh.

697
00:34:41,085 --> 00:34:42,765
Speaker 3: No, I wouldn't have been one hundred percent, But I

698
00:34:42,765 --> 00:34:46,885
Speaker 3: think I could have a conversation without it sounding odd, right.

699
00:34:47,205 --> 00:34:50,045
Speaker 3: I was just really really tired but couldn't sleep because

700
00:34:50,085 --> 00:34:52,365
Speaker 3: of the situation. I was just wired, I think would

701
00:34:52,365 --> 00:34:55,165
Speaker 3: probably be the right way of describing it. At one point,

702
00:34:55,325 --> 00:34:59,565
Speaker 3: the doctors did give us some sort of sleeping pills

703
00:34:59,765 --> 00:35:01,765
Speaker 3: so that we could get to sleep, but even that

704
00:35:01,765 --> 00:35:04,445
Speaker 3: didn't cut it for me. Yeah, it was just a

705
00:35:04,445 --> 00:35:07,805
Speaker 3: really really bad time. And I remember going online to

706
00:35:07,885 --> 00:35:10,485
Speaker 3: try and get a neurology consult that you pay like

707
00:35:10,565 --> 00:35:13,885
Speaker 3: five pounds for and you'd sort of type in all

708
00:35:13,885 --> 00:35:15,965
Speaker 3: of the details and then they'd come back to you

709
00:35:16,045 --> 00:35:18,565
Speaker 3: and say this is what you should do. And I'd

710
00:35:18,685 --> 00:35:21,445
Speaker 3: got pictures of her scans of her brain, you know,

711
00:35:22,005 --> 00:35:24,405
Speaker 3: her brain basically where she was unconscious, and I was

712
00:35:24,445 --> 00:35:29,525
Speaker 3: sending this off to this neurologist on this website and

713
00:35:29,645 --> 00:35:31,765
Speaker 3: he would he was just sort of coming back and saying, well,

714
00:35:31,765 --> 00:35:34,325
Speaker 3: you have to trust the doctors there basically because they

715
00:35:34,365 --> 00:35:37,885
Speaker 3: can deal with her in real time. I was just like, yeah,

716
00:35:37,885 --> 00:35:41,165
Speaker 3: but this is a different country, different roles, Like obviously

717
00:35:41,165 --> 00:35:44,325
Speaker 3: everything was going through her insurer, but I suppose I

718
00:35:44,405 --> 00:35:47,605
Speaker 3: just didn't fully trust that what was going on there

719
00:35:47,605 --> 00:35:49,445
Speaker 3: would have been what was going on in the UK,

720
00:35:49,725 --> 00:35:54,565
Speaker 3: or in Australia or in a developed country. But we

721
00:35:54,565 --> 00:35:58,245
Speaker 3: were assured by the insurers that basically this brain surgery

722
00:35:58,565 --> 00:36:00,965
Speaker 3: would be the right thing to do. But actually we

723
00:36:01,005 --> 00:36:05,565
Speaker 3: found out later from a professor who specializes in methanol

724
00:36:05,645 --> 00:36:08,365
Speaker 3: poisoning that you would never do brain surgery because it

725
00:36:08,365 --> 00:36:10,485
Speaker 3: would never work and it would just be basically be.

726
00:36:10,485 --> 00:36:15,205
Speaker 1: A complete waste of time. And it was obviously causing more.

727
00:36:15,085 --> 00:36:16,965
Speaker 3: Stress as well, because she had to have her hair

728
00:36:17,285 --> 00:36:21,285
Speaker 3: shaved off, you know, we had to she had to

729
00:36:21,325 --> 00:36:24,005
Speaker 3: have several blood transfusions to get her platelets high enough

730
00:36:24,005 --> 00:36:26,005
Speaker 3: to actually do the surgery in the first place.

731
00:36:26,885 --> 00:36:29,205
Speaker 1: And obviously there was the additional sort of worry.

732
00:36:28,965 --> 00:36:32,805
Speaker 3: For her mum about her going through a procedure like that, So.

733
00:36:34,445 --> 00:36:36,485
Speaker 2: Yeah, where's her mum? Where's her mum?

734
00:36:36,525 --> 00:36:39,485
Speaker 3: At this point, by the time that she actually had

735
00:36:39,525 --> 00:36:43,525
Speaker 3: the brain surgery, Sue had actually seen her just before

736
00:36:43,645 --> 00:36:45,805
Speaker 3: she went in, so it was it was actually quite

737
00:36:45,845 --> 00:36:50,125
Speaker 3: good timing with the delays with the transfusions that she

738
00:36:50,165 --> 00:36:50,765
Speaker 3: needed to have.

739
00:36:51,965 --> 00:36:53,765
Speaker 1: Sue got there just in the nick of time to

740
00:36:53,805 --> 00:36:54,285
Speaker 1: see her.

741
00:36:55,045 --> 00:36:58,325
Speaker 3: Obviously her hair was shaved and everything, but yeah, it

742
00:36:58,405 --> 00:37:00,885
Speaker 3: was nice for her to see her beforehand, I think.

743
00:37:02,125 --> 00:37:04,925
Speaker 3: And yeah, and then the next thing, we were told,

744
00:37:04,965 --> 00:37:08,005
Speaker 3: probably four or five hours later, that she'd come out

745
00:37:08,085 --> 00:37:11,445
Speaker 3: the brain surgery work, but it caused a bleed on

746
00:37:11,925 --> 00:37:14,325
Speaker 3: that side, and we had a little bit of hope

747
00:37:14,405 --> 00:37:17,205
Speaker 3: for probably a few hours, and then they said, actually,

748
00:37:17,245 --> 00:37:19,405
Speaker 3: now the other side of her brain is swollen to

749
00:37:19,845 --> 00:37:23,645
Speaker 3: so basically that's it. There's nothing else that we can

750
00:37:23,845 --> 00:37:25,885
Speaker 3: do for her. The way that they've phrased it was

751
00:37:25,925 --> 00:37:30,325
Speaker 3: particularly odd, I remember, because they were tied doctors and nurses,

752
00:37:30,365 --> 00:37:32,925
Speaker 3: a lot of them, and I think this particular doctor

753
00:37:32,925 --> 00:37:36,125
Speaker 3: had said something like, we do surgery but she being coma,

754
00:37:36,325 --> 00:37:39,365
Speaker 3: and I was like, what do you mean, Like, obviously

755
00:37:39,405 --> 00:37:41,525
Speaker 3: we're not going to do another surgery then. So it

756
00:37:41,565 --> 00:37:44,045
Speaker 3: was just it was just really difficult to actually communicate

757
00:37:44,125 --> 00:37:49,245
Speaker 3: with people. And yeah, it was you had to sort

758
00:37:49,245 --> 00:37:53,165
Speaker 3: of rephrase things several times to get them to basically

759
00:37:53,165 --> 00:37:55,165
Speaker 3: give you the answer that you needed. They wouldn't be

760
00:37:55,205 --> 00:37:57,005
Speaker 3: able to just say, right, we're not going to do

761
00:37:57,045 --> 00:38:02,125
Speaker 3: any surgery. They'd be saying roundabout ways of describing it.

762
00:38:05,245 --> 00:38:08,765
Speaker 4: What happened next is something Bith and he will carry forever.

763
00:38:10,085 --> 00:38:17,685
Speaker 4: After the break, she shares that moment. Where are you

764
00:38:17,805 --> 00:38:20,925
Speaker 4: at this point? Are you still a patient or you're

765
00:38:21,005 --> 00:38:23,005
Speaker 4: sort of just there waiting bedside?

766
00:38:24,085 --> 00:38:27,805
Speaker 3: We were still patient, but we were well enough to

767
00:38:27,885 --> 00:38:31,885
Speaker 3: actually go downstairs and see her because I think we

768
00:38:31,885 --> 00:38:34,965
Speaker 3: were sort of carrying around drips of various things. So

769
00:38:35,645 --> 00:38:40,845
Speaker 3: we were around definitely. But yeah, we were then discharged.

770
00:38:40,845 --> 00:38:44,685
Speaker 3: I think might have been the Sunday, Saturday or Sunday,

771
00:38:45,325 --> 00:38:50,285
Speaker 3: and we've got in there on the Wednesday. Yeah, that's

772
00:38:50,325 --> 00:38:53,245
Speaker 3: about right, so four or five five days. Yeah, all

773
00:38:53,245 --> 00:38:55,405
Speaker 3: of the surgery stuff had been done. You know by

774
00:38:55,445 --> 00:38:57,605
Speaker 3: the time that we left, they basically said, look, we're

775
00:38:57,605 --> 00:39:02,565
Speaker 3: going to have to wait for her to die naturally, And.

776
00:39:02,525 --> 00:39:04,685
Speaker 1: Obviously we're thinking, well how long is that going to take?

777
00:39:04,925 --> 00:39:07,165
Speaker 3: Like, you know, we can't be in a country indefinitely

778
00:39:07,405 --> 00:39:08,445
Speaker 3: waiting for her to go.

779
00:39:09,045 --> 00:39:11,445
Speaker 4: Was that the first time that they had talked about

780
00:39:12,245 --> 00:39:14,605
Speaker 4: death in those terms.

781
00:39:16,525 --> 00:39:18,965
Speaker 3: Well, obviously, given that we knew she was undergoing brain

782
00:39:19,005 --> 00:39:22,245
Speaker 3: surgery with very limited chance of it working, that had

783
00:39:22,245 --> 00:39:24,965
Speaker 3: obviously come into my head before, but yeah, it was

784
00:39:25,005 --> 00:39:26,885
Speaker 3: the first time that they really sort of focused in

785
00:39:26,925 --> 00:39:28,725
Speaker 3: on the fact that we were going to need to

786
00:39:28,765 --> 00:39:33,085
Speaker 3: wait for her to go. But with that, obviously her

787
00:39:33,125 --> 00:39:36,485
Speaker 3: heart was functioning. So you know, we were waiting for

788
00:39:36,565 --> 00:39:40,925
Speaker 3: about four days and her stats hadn't changed, and sometimes,

789
00:39:40,965 --> 00:39:42,645
Speaker 3: you know, we'd wake up in the morning her blood

790
00:39:42,645 --> 00:39:43,885
Speaker 3: pressure would be even higher.

791
00:39:44,045 --> 00:39:46,685
Speaker 1: We'd be thinking, well, how long are we going to

792
00:39:46,725 --> 00:39:46,965
Speaker 1: be here?

793
00:39:47,005 --> 00:39:49,325
Speaker 3: So in the end, our male friend had book flights

794
00:39:49,365 --> 00:39:50,925
Speaker 3: and then I said to Sue, look, I'm going to

795
00:39:51,005 --> 00:39:52,045
Speaker 3: have to go because I can't.

796
00:39:52,085 --> 00:39:53,245
Speaker 1: I can't be here anymore.

797
00:39:53,765 --> 00:39:56,965
Speaker 3: So we'd book the flights for the twenty first of November,

798
00:39:57,005 --> 00:39:59,325
Speaker 3: which is which ended up actually being the day that

799
00:39:59,365 --> 00:40:03,285
Speaker 3: Simone died, so Sue we wanted to get on those

800
00:40:03,325 --> 00:40:08,165
Speaker 3: same flights. Really that morning, Sue had said to the consulate,

801
00:40:08,565 --> 00:40:10,965
Speaker 3: is there anything you can do? Because we're now just

802
00:40:11,005 --> 00:40:15,285
Speaker 3: waiting for someone to die and we can't really, we

803
00:40:15,365 --> 00:40:18,005
Speaker 3: can't be here much longer, you know, we need to

804
00:40:18,045 --> 00:40:22,565
Speaker 3: speed this up somehow. What's the point of that. It's

805
00:40:22,645 --> 00:40:25,525
Speaker 3: just harming us, it's not harming her anymore. So prolonging

806
00:40:25,645 --> 00:40:29,885
Speaker 3: the agony belonging something that's not gonna Yeah. So what

807
00:40:29,925 --> 00:40:31,765
Speaker 3: was actually quite frustrating is that we had a group

808
00:40:31,845 --> 00:40:34,325
Speaker 3: chat with somebody who was acting as an interpreter, although

809
00:40:34,365 --> 00:40:37,645
Speaker 3: not particularly good English, to be honest, and she was

810
00:40:37,645 --> 00:40:38,165
Speaker 3: sending us.

811
00:40:38,125 --> 00:40:38,685
Speaker 1: Through the stats.

812
00:40:38,725 --> 00:40:41,805
Speaker 3: But we could see that she was being given glucose

813
00:40:42,485 --> 00:40:43,925
Speaker 3: whilst we were waiting for her to die. She was

814
00:40:43,925 --> 00:40:47,765
Speaker 3: being given gluecose and she was also being given additional oxygen.

815
00:40:47,885 --> 00:40:50,485
Speaker 3: So I thought she was breathing air, but actually she

816
00:40:50,565 --> 00:40:52,725
Speaker 3: was breathing more oxygenated air.

817
00:40:53,365 --> 00:40:56,805
Speaker 1: So I'm saying, sorry, what's going on?

818
00:40:57,245 --> 00:40:59,925
Speaker 3: Why is she being given something more than what the

819
00:40:59,965 --> 00:41:03,445
Speaker 3: average person would be. You know, we're not trying to

820
00:41:03,445 --> 00:41:07,485
Speaker 3: prolong her life here, we're trying to end it. And

821
00:41:06,965 --> 00:41:09,325
Speaker 3: they said, oh, we've got to do these things gradually,

822
00:41:09,525 --> 00:41:10,405
Speaker 3: blah blah blah.

823
00:41:10,445 --> 00:41:11,365
Speaker 1: What they were actually.

824
00:41:11,125 --> 00:41:13,365
Speaker 3: Trying to do is earn more money for their hospital

825
00:41:13,485 --> 00:41:15,765
Speaker 3: because some moment at that point, someone was the only

826
00:41:15,805 --> 00:41:18,485
Speaker 3: person in their ICU, so she was the one that

827
00:41:18,605 --> 00:41:19,405
Speaker 3: was funding everything.

828
00:41:20,125 --> 00:41:21,925
Speaker 2: So that's and she had insurance.

829
00:41:22,725 --> 00:41:25,325
Speaker 3: She had insurance, which obviously was I think it was

830
00:41:25,365 --> 00:41:26,885
Speaker 3: a very very hefty insurance bill.

831
00:41:26,925 --> 00:41:30,605
Speaker 1: In the end, it was thirty pounds or something.

832
00:41:31,205 --> 00:41:35,365
Speaker 3: But anyway, yeah, they were doing all this stuff and

833
00:41:35,645 --> 00:41:38,205
Speaker 3: we were saying to them, can you stop because this

834
00:41:38,325 --> 00:41:38,965
Speaker 3: isn't helping.

835
00:41:39,645 --> 00:41:41,885
Speaker 1: So they did stop it, but it was very gradual.

836
00:41:42,565 --> 00:41:44,685
Speaker 3: They put the gluecose, turned it off, and then the

837
00:41:45,045 --> 00:41:47,645
Speaker 3: air they brought the oxygen level down to what air

838
00:41:47,685 --> 00:41:51,045
Speaker 3: would be, but still that didn't actually help sort of

839
00:41:51,045 --> 00:41:54,165
Speaker 3: bring things to a close. So yeah, Sue had to

840
00:41:54,165 --> 00:41:56,885
Speaker 3: have this chat with the consulate and he must have

841
00:41:56,965 --> 00:42:00,045
Speaker 3: spoken to the hospital and she was then allowed to

842
00:42:00,165 --> 00:42:02,325
Speaker 3: switch it off herself, which is what she had to

843
00:42:02,365 --> 00:42:04,645
Speaker 3: do in order for us to leave the country.

844
00:42:05,205 --> 00:42:08,405
Speaker 4: So SA mine's mum who had to turn off, was

845
00:42:08,405 --> 00:42:10,285
Speaker 4: that it was effective life support.

846
00:42:10,765 --> 00:42:14,125
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, and I think it took three gos to

847
00:42:14,165 --> 00:42:16,285
Speaker 3: actually fully do it because no one's willing to be

848
00:42:16,285 --> 00:42:17,045
Speaker 3: in the room with her.

849
00:42:17,485 --> 00:42:18,245
Speaker 1: I'd said, do you.

850
00:42:18,285 --> 00:42:21,085
Speaker 3: Want me in there, but she wanted it to be

851
00:42:21,125 --> 00:42:23,765
Speaker 3: a private moment with her and her husband and her son,

852
00:42:24,205 --> 00:42:25,685
Speaker 3: so she had them on the end of the phone

853
00:42:26,005 --> 00:42:28,405
Speaker 3: and she did it, tried to do it herself, and

854
00:42:29,205 --> 00:42:31,245
Speaker 3: I think the first thing that happened was the backup

855
00:42:31,365 --> 00:42:34,165
Speaker 3: ventilator came on, so obviously she'd had to come out,

856
00:42:34,445 --> 00:42:36,485
Speaker 3: talk to them, ask them how to get that.

857
00:42:36,845 --> 00:42:38,765
Speaker 1: Well, then they told her how to do that.

858
00:42:39,205 --> 00:42:41,245
Speaker 3: Then she didn't realize she had to take the tube out,

859
00:42:41,365 --> 00:42:42,645
Speaker 3: so she had to take the tube out.

860
00:42:42,725 --> 00:42:45,405
Speaker 1: Oh, so basically the whole thing was long and drawn out.

861
00:42:45,485 --> 00:42:48,005
Speaker 3: I was looking at these machines on the outside, hoping

862
00:42:48,005 --> 00:42:50,085
Speaker 3: that it would be quick, but actually ended up being

863
00:42:50,085 --> 00:42:52,725
Speaker 3: a lot longer than we anticipated. But from the time

864
00:42:52,765 --> 00:42:54,885
Speaker 3: that she actually turned it off to the time that

865
00:42:55,045 --> 00:42:59,205
Speaker 3: Simone officially died, it was about half an hour.

866
00:42:59,525 --> 00:43:03,205
Speaker 2: So yeah, and how was her mum? Then?

867
00:43:05,125 --> 00:43:08,805
Speaker 3: I think relieved actually to some extent, because we were

868
00:43:08,845 --> 00:43:10,645
Speaker 3: just waiting and we didn't know when that end date

869
00:43:10,725 --> 00:43:12,205
Speaker 3: was going to be, and I didn't want to leave

870
00:43:12,245 --> 00:43:14,845
Speaker 3: her in Low so I think there was a little

871
00:43:14,885 --> 00:43:16,885
Speaker 3: bit of relief when we were actually able to.

872
00:43:18,725 --> 00:43:21,325
Speaker 1: Finally, you know, say goodbye.

873
00:43:21,685 --> 00:43:25,165
Speaker 3: Obviously she was devastated and we were crying and it

874
00:43:25,285 --> 00:43:28,085
Speaker 3: was all it was all horrible, but it meant that

875
00:43:28,125 --> 00:43:31,205
Speaker 3: she could get that flight with us, which gave us

876
00:43:31,245 --> 00:43:35,205
Speaker 3: the safety that we needed and also probably helped her

877
00:43:35,245 --> 00:43:38,965
Speaker 3: out a little bit too. So that evening we flew

878
00:43:39,005 --> 00:43:40,725
Speaker 3: out of Loud back to the UK.

879
00:43:41,965 --> 00:43:46,885
Speaker 4: You must have been actually exhausted. But how was the flight?

880
00:43:47,885 --> 00:43:52,005
Speaker 3: Yeah, well I ended up paying for business class just

881
00:43:52,045 --> 00:43:54,845
Speaker 3: so that I could sleep, because I hadn't slept that

882
00:43:55,085 --> 00:43:59,965
Speaker 3: entire time waiting wait for the inevitable. Really, but I

883
00:44:00,005 --> 00:44:01,725
Speaker 3: think that was probably the best sleep that I had

884
00:44:01,805 --> 00:44:05,885
Speaker 3: had for the last sort of week because it was done,

885
00:44:06,125 --> 00:44:10,965
Speaker 3: there was no more waiting. And Yeah, unfortunately, Simone's mum

886
00:44:11,165 --> 00:44:14,365
Speaker 3: had a particularly bad experience on the flight because, you know,

887
00:44:14,445 --> 00:44:18,365
Speaker 3: we tried to say to the airline staff, you know,

888
00:44:18,405 --> 00:44:19,965
Speaker 3: is there any chance that she could be given a

889
00:44:19,965 --> 00:44:22,285
Speaker 3: seat in business class because of what's happened? And you know,

890
00:44:22,365 --> 00:44:25,085
Speaker 3: I was showing them the headlines. They were like, no, sorry,

891
00:44:25,325 --> 00:44:27,245
Speaker 3: if we said yes to her, we'd say yes to it.

892
00:44:27,365 --> 00:44:29,245
Speaker 3: We'd have to say yes to other people. And I

893
00:44:29,285 --> 00:44:31,565
Speaker 3: was like, who are the other people though, and they

894
00:44:31,565 --> 00:44:34,685
Speaker 3: were like, oh, someone broke their leg. It's like, well, sorry,

895
00:44:34,725 --> 00:44:38,285
Speaker 3: this is a completely different it's a completely different situation.

896
00:44:38,965 --> 00:44:43,205
Speaker 4: So there had been no consular you know, wording up

897
00:44:43,245 --> 00:44:47,165
Speaker 4: of the airline anything like that. Their assistants didn't extend

898
00:44:47,205 --> 00:44:51,005
Speaker 4: to that, to there being compassionate grounds for trading, no,

899
00:44:51,325 --> 00:44:54,285
Speaker 4: you know, Simone's mum, No, probably would have.

900
00:44:54,245 --> 00:44:56,365
Speaker 3: Been sensible but I think because it was a flight

901
00:44:56,405 --> 00:44:58,645
Speaker 3: that was booked so last minute, like she literally booked

902
00:44:58,685 --> 00:45:00,805
Speaker 3: it that morning. And the concert was good in that

903
00:45:00,845 --> 00:45:03,805
Speaker 3: he got us through the Lao airport because we were

904
00:45:03,845 --> 00:45:06,045
Speaker 3: actually quite panicked that we were going to be arrested

905
00:45:06,085 --> 00:45:08,045
Speaker 3: for slander because of the things that were going on

906
00:45:08,045 --> 00:45:10,925
Speaker 3: on Facebook. You know, I'd put something out of Facebook

907
00:45:10,965 --> 00:45:11,965
Speaker 3: saying this is what's going on?

908
00:45:12,005 --> 00:45:13,365
Speaker 1: Has anyone else been poisoned?

909
00:45:13,885 --> 00:45:16,445
Speaker 3: So I was then worried that my name was out

910
00:45:16,485 --> 00:45:19,085
Speaker 3: there and that somehow low officials were going to be

911
00:45:19,165 --> 00:45:21,085
Speaker 3: in the airport sort of talking to us.

912
00:45:21,485 --> 00:45:22,765
Speaker 1: But anyway, it was fine.

913
00:45:22,845 --> 00:45:24,885
Speaker 3: He insisted it would be fine, and it was fine,

914
00:45:24,925 --> 00:45:28,965
Speaker 3: and he got us through the airport okay, And yeah,

915
00:45:28,965 --> 00:45:32,245
Speaker 3: that was kind of where his duties sort of ended,

916
00:45:32,365 --> 00:45:32,765
Speaker 3: I think.

917
00:45:32,845 --> 00:45:35,525
Speaker 1: But no, the concert was pretty good.

918
00:45:35,925 --> 00:45:40,325
Speaker 3: He did quite well to sort of keep us quite calm,

919
00:45:40,405 --> 00:45:44,525
Speaker 3: and yeah, we obviously weren't in a position to be calm,

920
00:45:44,605 --> 00:45:47,645
Speaker 3: so he was our grounding really whilst we were there.

921
00:45:47,965 --> 00:45:50,365
Speaker 3: But yeah, I think we were just really glad to

922
00:45:50,405 --> 00:45:50,885
Speaker 3: be home.

923
00:45:51,605 --> 00:45:55,565
Speaker 4: Was that a time when you know, you were returning

924
00:45:55,565 --> 00:46:00,485
Speaker 4: to familiar surrounds, but they were I imagine unfamiliar because

925
00:46:00,565 --> 00:46:01,965
Speaker 4: your friend was not there.

926
00:46:03,525 --> 00:46:05,605
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think I was definitely in a state of

927
00:46:05,605 --> 00:46:07,325
Speaker 3: shock when I got back, because I just kind of

928
00:46:07,325 --> 00:46:09,285
Speaker 3: had to keep it all going when we were there,

929
00:46:09,445 --> 00:46:12,085
Speaker 3: but when I got back, it was at a state

930
00:46:12,125 --> 00:46:16,005
Speaker 3: of yeah, you have to try and still function, but

931
00:46:16,405 --> 00:46:17,965
Speaker 3: I was in a state of shock, so I would

932
00:46:18,045 --> 00:46:20,085
Speaker 3: sort of get up and then feel dizzy and need

933
00:46:20,085 --> 00:46:22,765
Speaker 3: to sit down and just things like that. Really, and

934
00:46:22,805 --> 00:46:26,125
Speaker 3: I think that lasted for about two weeks, and obviously

935
00:46:26,325 --> 00:46:30,605
Speaker 3: when we were at Christmas really and then obviously over Christmas,

936
00:46:30,645 --> 00:46:32,765
Speaker 3: there was a lot of kind of reminders of what

937
00:46:32,805 --> 00:46:36,125
Speaker 3: we'd normally be doing, and we actually had events planned

938
00:46:36,365 --> 00:46:39,805
Speaker 3: which was supposed to be coming up, but obviously, given

939
00:46:39,845 --> 00:46:42,285
Speaker 3: that she was no longer with us, those days we'd

940
00:46:42,285 --> 00:46:44,045
Speaker 3: come up and I'd just delete them out of the

941
00:46:44,045 --> 00:46:48,645
Speaker 3: calendar because, yeah, it was a horrible time because we

942
00:46:48,685 --> 00:46:50,325
Speaker 3: had so many plans which.

943
00:46:52,565 --> 00:46:56,725
Speaker 4: And instead was there a memorial for her or a funeral?

944
00:46:56,885 --> 00:46:59,365
Speaker 2: What did her family do in that event?

945
00:46:59,565 --> 00:47:03,325
Speaker 1: So we didn't. I think Sue didn't want to rush

946
00:47:03,365 --> 00:47:03,845
Speaker 1: the funerals.

947
00:47:03,845 --> 00:47:06,525
Speaker 3: So the funeral actually happened in January, so a bit

948
00:47:06,605 --> 00:47:09,725
Speaker 3: after Christmas, And I think the reason being that she

949
00:47:09,765 --> 00:47:12,685
Speaker 3: didn't want to rush the planning of it, so you

950
00:47:12,725 --> 00:47:16,605
Speaker 3: know what kind of music and getting all the photographs together,

951
00:47:16,725 --> 00:47:18,165
Speaker 3: and she had a lot of other things to deal

952
00:47:18,205 --> 00:47:20,165
Speaker 3: with at the same time, you know, even just the

953
00:47:20,325 --> 00:47:24,285
Speaker 3: repatriation process, and you know, other things that needs to

954
00:47:24,285 --> 00:47:26,765
Speaker 3: go on, like post mortem, and you know, she had

955
00:47:26,765 --> 00:47:28,925
Speaker 3: a house and only just bought a flat, so she

956
00:47:28,965 --> 00:47:30,925
Speaker 3: needed to sort things out with that too. So there

957
00:47:30,965 --> 00:47:33,125
Speaker 3: was just a lot for Sue to deal with, and

958
00:47:33,165 --> 00:47:35,285
Speaker 3: I think she felt it was best to leave it

959
00:47:35,365 --> 00:47:38,645
Speaker 3: until January, which was the right decision because I wasn't

960
00:47:38,725 --> 00:47:41,445
Speaker 3: in a fit state to attend a funeral the way

961
00:47:41,485 --> 00:47:45,325
Speaker 3: that I was, and with that little gap that we had,

962
00:47:45,525 --> 00:47:47,165
Speaker 3: I was able to get a little bit of rest

963
00:47:47,365 --> 00:47:49,845
Speaker 3: so that I could successfully do a bit of a

964
00:47:49,885 --> 00:47:53,325
Speaker 3: tribute for Simone on the day of her funeral.

965
00:47:53,405 --> 00:47:55,285
Speaker 1: So it was for the best.

966
00:47:55,325 --> 00:48:01,005
Speaker 4: Really, what has the process of grief looked like for

967
00:48:01,165 --> 00:48:02,565
Speaker 4: you since then?

968
00:48:03,765 --> 00:48:05,485
Speaker 1: It's a very slow process.

969
00:48:05,645 --> 00:48:07,605
Speaker 3: I think for me it was kind of dealing with

970
00:48:07,645 --> 00:48:12,165
Speaker 3: the trauma first, because the trauma seems to even now

971
00:48:12,285 --> 00:48:12,605
Speaker 3: be too.

972
00:48:13,045 --> 00:48:16,125
Speaker 1: It's two separate things. So the trauma's here and the.

973
00:48:16,085 --> 00:48:20,245
Speaker 3: Grief is here, and I'm now I think trying to

974
00:48:20,285 --> 00:48:21,125
Speaker 3: deal with the grief.

975
00:48:21,325 --> 00:48:24,885
Speaker 1: But I've kind of kind of got there with the trauma.

976
00:48:24,925 --> 00:48:28,045
Speaker 3: I think I don't really have flashbacks or anything or

977
00:48:28,045 --> 00:48:31,925
Speaker 3: like nightmares, but obviously I do get reminders of things,

978
00:48:32,045 --> 00:48:37,605
Speaker 3: but nothing is of debilitating or really really severe. So yeah,

979
00:48:37,685 --> 00:48:40,885
Speaker 3: for me, it's just trying to process what's happened, and

980
00:48:40,925 --> 00:48:44,245
Speaker 3: you know, the death of her really and the loss,

981
00:48:44,285 --> 00:48:48,365
Speaker 3: the personal loss I have from not having my friend anymore.

982
00:48:49,285 --> 00:48:52,605
Speaker 3: You know her daily and we'd send voice notes daily,

983
00:48:52,685 --> 00:48:55,845
Speaker 3: and you to not have that anymore. She was my

984
00:48:55,965 --> 00:48:58,965
Speaker 3: guiding light in a way, like if I had a problems,

985
00:48:59,005 --> 00:49:01,165
Speaker 3: she'd be the first person I would contact. So I'm

986
00:49:01,165 --> 00:49:02,885
Speaker 3: now having to do a lot of internal work to

987
00:49:02,885 --> 00:49:07,965
Speaker 3: try and work these problems out for myself. So yeah,

988
00:49:07,245 --> 00:49:14,245
Speaker 3: it's a slow pro aggress and I think, yeah, I've

989
00:49:14,285 --> 00:49:14,965
Speaker 3: come a long way.

990
00:49:15,205 --> 00:49:16,965
Speaker 1: Basically, I've come a long way.

991
00:49:17,085 --> 00:49:19,605
Speaker 3: And I think doing this campaign as well has kind

992
00:49:19,605 --> 00:49:22,965
Speaker 3: of had this distraction. It's been a bit of distraction,

993
00:49:23,085 --> 00:49:25,445
Speaker 3: I think for the grief, but it's also been a

994
00:49:25,485 --> 00:49:28,205
Speaker 3: really good way of kind of using my time to

995
00:49:28,645 --> 00:49:33,165
Speaker 3: commemorate and remember and do something good in her memory,

996
00:49:33,245 --> 00:49:35,125
Speaker 3: because I think that she would have achieved so much

997
00:49:35,165 --> 00:49:36,885
Speaker 3: in her life, so that if I can do this

998
00:49:37,085 --> 00:49:39,125
Speaker 3: so that other people don't have to go through it,

999
00:49:39,485 --> 00:49:41,165
Speaker 3: then I think that can only be a good thing.

1000
00:49:41,725 --> 00:49:42,045
Speaker 1: You have.

1001
00:49:42,245 --> 00:49:50,085
Speaker 4: You've channeled your pain into advocacy and into this area

1002
00:49:50,205 --> 00:49:53,645
Speaker 4: which I did not realize was so prevalent, which is

1003
00:49:53,685 --> 00:50:01,365
Speaker 4: the use of methanol that when to basically make drinks stronger,

1004
00:50:02,125 --> 00:50:03,925
Speaker 4: stretch it out and underregulated.

1005
00:50:04,925 --> 00:50:08,245
Speaker 1: Yeah, it just makes it a little bit cheaper for them.

1006
00:50:09,325 --> 00:50:12,525
Speaker 3: Obviously, you can kind of make alcohol badly as well,

1007
00:50:12,565 --> 00:50:14,685
Speaker 3: and that can come up too, But I think in

1008
00:50:14,725 --> 00:50:16,845
Speaker 3: this situation it definitely all seem to be a case

1009
00:50:16,845 --> 00:50:19,165
Speaker 3: of organized crime, because Vang Vieg did have a bit

1010
00:50:19,205 --> 00:50:21,485
Speaker 3: of an association with organized crime anyway.

1011
00:50:22,205 --> 00:50:25,725
Speaker 4: So yes, yeah, I kind of see there's a ced

1012
00:50:26,125 --> 00:50:28,285
Speaker 4: underbilly in that town.

1013
00:50:28,805 --> 00:50:32,245
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it was a Vietnamese own hostel and the

1014
00:50:32,285 --> 00:50:35,125
Speaker 3: two people that were probably involved and fled to Vietnam,

1015
00:50:35,325 --> 00:50:38,405
Speaker 3: so I think they kind of knew what was going

1016
00:50:38,405 --> 00:50:39,525
Speaker 3: on and have moved on.

1017
00:50:40,205 --> 00:50:43,565
Speaker 4: And then, so as far as I understand the backpacker,

1018
00:50:43,725 --> 00:50:48,885
Speaker 4: the hostel Nana closed down for a period and then

1019
00:50:48,925 --> 00:50:50,565
Speaker 4: they've reopened.

1020
00:50:50,525 --> 00:50:53,605
Speaker 3: Well, they were trying to, and I've done my best

1021
00:50:53,605 --> 00:50:55,445
Speaker 3: efforts to try and sabotage that.

1022
00:50:55,645 --> 00:50:58,685
Speaker 1: So they were trying to open up in August.

1023
00:50:59,165 --> 00:51:03,045
Speaker 3: So I then obviously spoke to the BBC and various

1024
00:51:03,925 --> 00:51:07,525
Speaker 3: news outlets to make sure that they won't be doing that. Yeah,

1025
00:51:07,805 --> 00:51:11,765
Speaker 3: I think, I hope, hope that they're not going to open.

1026
00:51:11,525 --> 00:51:16,805
Speaker 4: Now, right, and at government level, what had been the

1027
00:51:16,925 --> 00:51:22,365
Speaker 4: ramifications in that area anything, Is it followed up? Has

1028
00:51:22,405 --> 00:51:23,565
Speaker 4: anyone been charged?

1029
00:51:24,205 --> 00:51:24,605
Speaker 3: Well?

1030
00:51:24,805 --> 00:51:28,085
Speaker 4: Is anyone going to be held to account for Samone's death?

1031
00:51:29,005 --> 00:51:32,725
Speaker 3: Thirteen people were detained at the time, and then we

1032
00:51:32,845 --> 00:51:36,605
Speaker 3: found out through I think the Danish or Australian families

1033
00:51:36,685 --> 00:51:39,685
Speaker 3: that they were all released, and that was just before

1034
00:51:39,725 --> 00:51:44,405
Speaker 3: we went on This Morning, which is a British morning show,

1035
00:51:45,045 --> 00:51:48,645
Speaker 3: that was in February. So since then we found out

1036
00:51:48,645 --> 00:51:51,245
Speaker 3: that these thirteen people are going to be charged with

1037
00:51:51,365 --> 00:51:55,725
Speaker 3: various offenses, so things like elimination of evidence, which I

1038
00:51:55,765 --> 00:52:00,085
Speaker 3: can understand because I sent the police a picture of

1039
00:52:00,365 --> 00:52:03,765
Speaker 3: a load of bottles being discarded outside the hostel, literally

1040
00:52:03,805 --> 00:52:05,885
Speaker 3: like two hundred bottles, and somebody had sent me that

1041
00:52:05,965 --> 00:52:07,685
Speaker 3: and said, look, I picked up one of these bottles.

1042
00:52:07,725 --> 00:52:09,765
Speaker 1: It's clearly been washed out with washing up liquid.

1043
00:52:10,525 --> 00:52:13,365
Speaker 3: So they've obviously discarded of the evidence that they had,

1044
00:52:13,885 --> 00:52:16,845
Speaker 3: so they may not have found any methanol in the bottles.

1045
00:52:16,885 --> 00:52:18,845
Speaker 3: I don't know because we don't speak to the law

1046
00:52:18,925 --> 00:52:20,325
Speaker 3: authorities about stuff like that.

1047
00:52:20,405 --> 00:52:26,565
Speaker 4: But six people died m Yeah, and the six people

1048
00:52:26,645 --> 00:52:30,085
Speaker 4: who died had were they all involved, they'd all been

1049
00:52:30,165 --> 00:52:32,045
Speaker 4: staying at the backpackers or they'd all been to the

1050
00:52:32,085 --> 00:52:33,965
Speaker 4: happy hour at Nana's.

1051
00:52:34,245 --> 00:52:35,525
Speaker 1: Yeah, everyone stayed there.

1052
00:52:35,645 --> 00:52:38,005
Speaker 3: I think the difference with the man who died was

1053
00:52:38,005 --> 00:52:40,085
Speaker 3: that he was found in his room and I don't

1054
00:52:40,325 --> 00:52:42,805
Speaker 3: know that he went to the happy hour, and we're

1055
00:52:42,845 --> 00:52:45,925
Speaker 3: not sure the circumstances of his death, but everybody else

1056
00:52:46,645 --> 00:52:49,325
Speaker 3: definitely methanol poisoning related.

1057
00:52:49,445 --> 00:52:49,925
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1058
00:52:50,205 --> 00:52:54,125
Speaker 3: Then the Danish girls had a very very awful sort

1059
00:52:54,205 --> 00:52:56,205
Speaker 3: state of affairs going on with that because they were,

1060
00:52:56,965 --> 00:53:00,205
Speaker 3: you know, vomiting blood and it all just Yeah, and

1061
00:53:00,245 --> 00:53:02,845
Speaker 3: their parents didn't even get the right death certificate. I

1062
00:53:02,845 --> 00:53:05,365
Speaker 3: think the death certificate said heart failure. It was all

1063
00:53:05,405 --> 00:53:09,405
Speaker 3: just completely wrong, and they had to agree to that

1064
00:53:09,525 --> 00:53:12,165
Speaker 3: death certificate because otherwise they wouldn't have got their children's

1065
00:53:12,165 --> 00:53:12,685
Speaker 3: bodies back.

1066
00:53:12,805 --> 00:53:13,405
Speaker 1: So it's just.

1067
00:53:15,685 --> 00:53:17,485
Speaker 3: It's on another scale to what we had to deal with,

1068
00:53:17,565 --> 00:53:19,845
Speaker 3: really but I mean they didn't even find out that

1069
00:53:19,925 --> 00:53:23,885
Speaker 3: they died until a way later, I think the Saturday.

1070
00:53:24,045 --> 00:53:30,605
Speaker 3: So yeah, it's horrific. But yeah, these charges. Food and

1071
00:53:30,725 --> 00:53:35,085
Speaker 3: beverage safety was one of them, which it's not really

1072
00:53:35,525 --> 00:53:38,725
Speaker 3: it's not really the right thing. And working without a

1073
00:53:38,765 --> 00:53:40,325
Speaker 3: work permit was another one.

1074
00:53:41,205 --> 00:53:43,045
Speaker 1: I'm not really sure what that's about.

1075
00:53:43,405 --> 00:53:47,565
Speaker 4: Not charges specifically pertaining to the loss of life.

1076
00:53:47,965 --> 00:53:50,565
Speaker 3: No, and we were told it would be six years,

1077
00:53:50,605 --> 00:53:52,205
Speaker 3: we were told, or six or seven years for a

1078
00:53:52,285 --> 00:53:56,325
Speaker 3: mass poisoning. But it's proving that it was a mass poisoning,

1079
00:53:56,365 --> 00:53:59,205
Speaker 3: which shouldn't be difficult to do if for six people

1080
00:53:59,245 --> 00:54:02,365
Speaker 3: have died in place, But for some reason it's not

1081
00:54:02,445 --> 00:54:06,125
Speaker 3: enough evidence. So they obviously needed to have the methanol

1082
00:54:06,885 --> 00:54:09,365
Speaker 3: sort of in situ to be tested, but of s

1083
00:54:09,485 --> 00:54:11,485
Speaker 3: if it was all chucked away, then they haven't got

1084
00:54:11,525 --> 00:54:15,405
Speaker 3: that evidence. Yeah, it's infuriating because we can say for

1085
00:54:15,405 --> 00:54:17,445
Speaker 3: sure that is definitely where we drank. And they sent

1086
00:54:17,485 --> 00:54:20,205
Speaker 3: me a load of c's TV the hostel through a

1087
00:54:20,245 --> 00:54:23,005
Speaker 3: Facebook messenger. They sent me all the CSTV of us

1088
00:54:23,045 --> 00:54:27,365
Speaker 3: sitting there drinking in the hostel. Yet we're being told

1089
00:54:27,725 --> 00:54:30,325
Speaker 3: they're not going to be charged for that offense.

1090
00:54:30,405 --> 00:54:33,165
Speaker 4: It's just how was it when you saw that footage?

1091
00:54:33,605 --> 00:54:36,645
Speaker 1: Yeah, I really didn't like watching it back initially.

1092
00:54:37,405 --> 00:54:40,805
Speaker 3: It proves we were there, so it's good that they

1093
00:54:40,805 --> 00:54:41,285
Speaker 3: sent me it.

1094
00:54:41,765 --> 00:54:45,925
Speaker 4: What do you think Simone would say about what you're

1095
00:54:45,965 --> 00:54:51,765
Speaker 4: doing now, which is basically encouraging young travelers to drink

1096
00:54:51,845 --> 00:54:53,085
Speaker 4: safely overseas.

1097
00:54:53,565 --> 00:54:57,645
Speaker 1: I don't know, really. I think she'd be happy.

1098
00:54:57,725 --> 00:55:00,405
Speaker 3: I guess that I was taking my time to do this,

1099
00:55:01,205 --> 00:55:03,245
Speaker 3: but at the same time, I think she would have

1100
00:55:03,285 --> 00:55:07,525
Speaker 3: done it for me. So yeah, And I always kind

1101
00:55:07,565 --> 00:55:10,965
Speaker 3: of think, oh, bet she'd be doing more, but she'd

1102
00:55:11,005 --> 00:55:12,605
Speaker 3: be doing this, that or the other. So I always

1103
00:55:12,805 --> 00:55:16,565
Speaker 3: kind of worry that I'm not doing enough in some ways.

1104
00:55:16,565 --> 00:55:20,405
Speaker 3: But yeah, I've just tried to sort of take up

1105
00:55:20,405 --> 00:55:22,445
Speaker 3: all the interviews to do as much as I can

1106
00:55:22,565 --> 00:55:25,085
Speaker 3: really to try and get the message out there. But

1107
00:55:25,125 --> 00:55:27,925
Speaker 3: now it's really up to up to individual governments to

1108
00:55:28,325 --> 00:55:30,405
Speaker 3: make decisions, and that's why I set up a couple

1109
00:55:30,405 --> 00:55:33,725
Speaker 3: of different petitions. Got the petition in the UK trying

1110
00:55:33,725 --> 00:55:36,885
Speaker 3: to educate young people in schools, and I set up

1111
00:55:36,925 --> 00:55:40,685
Speaker 3: a separate petition just recently trying to get governments and

1112
00:55:40,765 --> 00:55:45,085
Speaker 3: airports to advertise, just like Australia do about the dangers

1113
00:55:45,085 --> 00:55:47,965
Speaker 3: of methanol poisoning. So I know you've got posters up

1114
00:55:48,005 --> 00:55:50,925
Speaker 3: on the back of toilet cubicle doors, and I think

1115
00:55:50,925 --> 00:55:53,205
Speaker 3: that's really what needs to be rolled out across the world.

1116
00:55:53,685 --> 00:55:55,485
Speaker 3: I can't see why it should be that hard to do,

1117
00:55:55,565 --> 00:55:56,845
Speaker 3: given that it's already happening.

1118
00:55:57,485 --> 00:56:01,365
Speaker 4: So Simone was the organizer, but you're the organizer now.

1119
00:56:02,605 --> 00:56:05,165
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've had to be yeah without her.

1120
00:56:06,205 --> 00:56:10,245
Speaker 4: Yeah, and how would you like her to be remembered?

1121
00:56:11,725 --> 00:56:12,805
Speaker 1: Oh?

1122
00:56:13,125 --> 00:56:15,325
Speaker 3: I just for some reason, I hate this question because

1123
00:56:15,325 --> 00:56:17,485
Speaker 3: I feel like I never do her justice with whatever

1124
00:56:17,525 --> 00:56:27,485
Speaker 3: I say. But she was just a really strong, independent, intelligent, active,

1125
00:56:28,285 --> 00:56:32,285
Speaker 3: friendly you know, pretty much any positive adjective, you know,

1126
00:56:32,445 --> 00:56:36,925
Speaker 3: she was it. She was just the best sort of

1127
00:56:37,165 --> 00:56:39,445
Speaker 3: friend that I could have asked for. She listened to me,

1128
00:56:39,645 --> 00:56:42,645
Speaker 3: you know, any sort of rubbish came out of my mouth,

1129
00:56:42,725 --> 00:56:46,325
Speaker 3: she would put up with it. And yeah, she'd always

1130
00:56:46,365 --> 00:56:49,725
Speaker 3: give me good, good advice. And yeah, I will never

1131
00:56:49,765 --> 00:56:50,925
Speaker 3: have a friend like her again.

1132
00:56:51,725 --> 00:56:52,725
Speaker 1: That's a huge loss.

1133
00:56:53,245 --> 00:56:56,005
Speaker 4: How do you feel the shape of her that's missing

1134
00:56:56,085 --> 00:56:56,805
Speaker 4: from your life?

1135
00:56:57,925 --> 00:56:59,845
Speaker 1: You can't, I think, is the answer to that.

1136
00:56:59,965 --> 00:57:02,685
Speaker 3: You just can't but the way that my grief counselor

1137
00:57:02,725 --> 00:57:04,525
Speaker 3: explained it is that you sort of build up your

1138
00:57:04,525 --> 00:57:07,565
Speaker 3: life around the grief. So the grief sort of stays

1139
00:57:07,565 --> 00:57:10,725
Speaker 3: the same, but you build up your life around. So

1140
00:57:11,045 --> 00:57:14,325
Speaker 3: I guess doing this kind of work, advocacy work, campaigning,

1141
00:57:14,645 --> 00:57:18,565
Speaker 3: it's building stretching what I would normally be doing. So

1142
00:57:19,165 --> 00:57:23,125
Speaker 3: it's just a way for me to help the situation

1143
00:57:23,205 --> 00:57:24,925
Speaker 3: but also to process what's gone on.

1144
00:57:25,405 --> 00:57:28,565
Speaker 4: It's interesting because I think in the face of extreme

1145
00:57:28,645 --> 00:57:32,165
Speaker 4: loss and grief you kind of have two options, and

1146
00:57:32,205 --> 00:57:35,605
Speaker 4: you can crawl away from it or you can run

1147
00:57:35,685 --> 00:57:40,805
Speaker 4: towards it. And I have to thank you on behalf

1148
00:57:40,845 --> 00:57:47,245
Speaker 4: of the for really young travelers who will be benefited,

1149
00:57:47,885 --> 00:57:51,125
Speaker 4: possibly saved by the work that you're doing in this space.

1150
00:57:52,925 --> 00:57:55,245
Speaker 3: Yeah, I just hope people sort of sit up and

1151
00:57:55,685 --> 00:57:59,925
Speaker 3: listen and think more about what they're putting inside the bodies. Really,

1152
00:58:00,165 --> 00:58:02,645
Speaker 3: you know, I'm sure people still think, oh, this cocktail

1153
00:58:02,725 --> 00:58:03,405
Speaker 3: will be fine.

1154
00:58:03,485 --> 00:58:06,365
Speaker 1: You know, I've been here before. You just don't know.

1155
00:58:06,485 --> 00:58:09,205
Speaker 3: It's happening in so many different countries around the world,

1156
00:58:09,405 --> 00:58:11,845
Speaker 3: and there was recently I found out that the Vietnam

1157
00:58:11,885 --> 00:58:15,085
Speaker 3: are putting their tax on alcohol from sixty five ninety

1158
00:58:15,125 --> 00:58:18,285
Speaker 3: percent on spirits, so it's only going to start happening.

1159
00:58:18,285 --> 00:58:25,005
Speaker 4: More so, is your concrete advice to travelers only drink

1160
00:58:25,285 --> 00:58:29,565
Speaker 4: from sealed bottles? What form does the advice take?

1161
00:58:30,125 --> 00:58:32,285
Speaker 3: I think seal bottles is difficult because I know of

1162
00:58:32,325 --> 00:58:36,685
Speaker 3: the case Chesney Emmons, she bought some gin from a

1163
00:58:36,765 --> 00:58:42,285
Speaker 3: shop in Sumatra and she died. So there's a lot

1164
00:58:42,325 --> 00:58:46,285
Speaker 3: of counterfeit alcohol out there, especially places like Ballei. I

1165
00:58:46,285 --> 00:58:48,085
Speaker 3: won't be going back to Bali, so I can say that,

1166
00:58:48,165 --> 00:58:50,605
Speaker 3: but yeah, not just there, it would be in a

1167
00:58:50,645 --> 00:58:53,285
Speaker 3: lot of different places too, but it's just sort of

1168
00:58:53,365 --> 00:58:56,845
Speaker 3: knowing where, and you don't know where. Unless we're getting

1169
00:58:57,045 --> 00:59:00,285
Speaker 3: investigative journalists to go out to these places and buy alcohol,

1170
00:59:00,605 --> 00:59:03,445
Speaker 3: we're never going to know beer. Beer is safe. Yeah,

1171
00:59:03,525 --> 00:59:07,165
Speaker 3: so especially out of the can, Yeah, absolutely, or like

1172
00:59:07,285 --> 00:59:08,925
Speaker 3: pre mixed drinks out of a can.

1173
00:59:09,005 --> 00:59:12,005
Speaker 1: You know you can sort of get like not smurn

1174
00:59:12,005 --> 00:59:12,365
Speaker 1: off eyes.

1175
00:59:12,405 --> 00:59:13,845
Speaker 3: I think that comes in a bottle, but you know

1176
00:59:13,925 --> 00:59:15,845
Speaker 3: that kind of thing where you can see it's like

1177
00:59:15,885 --> 00:59:19,085
Speaker 3: a smirn Off, but it's come out of a can.

1178
00:59:19,445 --> 00:59:23,045
Speaker 3: Siders out of a can, anything like that should be

1179
00:59:23,125 --> 00:59:26,485
Speaker 3: safe because no one can really get anything else in there,

1180
00:59:26,685 --> 00:59:28,405
Speaker 3: So that is.

1181
00:59:28,365 --> 00:59:30,605
Speaker 1: Just really open bottles of spirit.

1182
00:59:31,405 --> 00:59:35,005
Speaker 3: That's particularly dangerous because anything could have been put in there,

1183
00:59:35,125 --> 00:59:37,285
Speaker 3: It could have been topped up with something counterfeit.

1184
00:59:38,285 --> 00:59:39,005
Speaker 1: And even wine.

1185
00:59:39,005 --> 00:59:40,485
Speaker 3: I think there was an issue with wine in the

1186
00:59:40,565 --> 00:59:44,165
Speaker 3: nineteen eighties somewhere in Europe where a lot of people

1187
00:59:44,245 --> 00:59:48,845
Speaker 3: died from that. So nothing's one hundred percent safe, but

1188
00:59:48,965 --> 00:59:52,485
Speaker 3: I think we can say that cans are relatively safe.

1189
00:59:52,965 --> 00:59:54,445
Speaker 2: Where will your next trip be.

1190
00:59:56,485 --> 01:00:00,125
Speaker 3: Back to the UK for Christmas? I've spent so you're

1191
01:00:00,165 --> 01:00:03,885
Speaker 3: in Brisbane now? Yeah, yeah, and I'll go And how

1192
01:00:03,965 --> 01:00:04,645
Speaker 3: is it December?

1193
01:00:05,565 --> 01:00:06,725
Speaker 2: How is it? Being away?

1194
01:00:08,045 --> 01:00:10,725
Speaker 3: In some ways good because I think there was just

1195
01:00:10,765 --> 01:00:14,925
Speaker 3: so many memories back in Orpington, which is where we're from.

1196
01:00:15,325 --> 01:00:16,805
Speaker 1: In London in general.

1197
01:00:16,845 --> 01:00:19,165
Speaker 3: You know, we lived in we lived together at one

1198
01:00:19,245 --> 01:00:21,685
Speaker 3: point in the Isle of Dogs, which is kind of

1199
01:00:21,685 --> 01:00:25,045
Speaker 3: near Greenwich, and you know, she had a flat over

1200
01:00:25,085 --> 01:00:27,485
Speaker 3: in Greenwich. You know, there's just so many memories in

1201
01:00:28,085 --> 01:00:31,965
Speaker 3: that part of the world. And so for me being

1202
01:00:32,005 --> 01:00:34,365
Speaker 3: over here, I mean, she did come here once, but

1203
01:00:34,485 --> 01:00:38,285
Speaker 3: at least it's much less than at home, and I've

1204
01:00:38,365 --> 01:00:40,805
Speaker 3: got that bit of space to kind of think about

1205
01:00:41,165 --> 01:00:43,685
Speaker 3: other things as well. It's just not good for you

1206
01:00:43,805 --> 01:00:47,845
Speaker 3: to be thinking about memories all the time. So I

1207
01:00:47,885 --> 01:00:50,085
Speaker 3: can choose to dip back into that when I want.

1208
01:00:50,205 --> 01:00:52,325
Speaker 3: We're at home, i'd have constant reminders.

1209
01:00:53,045 --> 01:00:57,685
Speaker 4: Yes, well, Bethany Clark, thank you so much for joining

1210
01:00:57,725 --> 01:01:00,245
Speaker 4: us on No Filter. Thank you for having me, and

1211
01:01:01,365 --> 01:01:06,325
Speaker 4: thank you for introducing us to your beautiful friends and mine.

1212
01:01:06,645 --> 01:01:07,085
Speaker 1: Thank you.

1213
01:01:11,725 --> 01:01:15,085
Speaker 4: Last night I couldn't sleep, and it was partly because

1214
01:01:15,325 --> 01:01:17,485
Speaker 4: I had to get up very early to do this

1215
01:01:17,605 --> 01:01:20,885
Speaker 4: interview with Bethany Clark, but it was also because of

1216
01:01:20,925 --> 01:01:23,485
Speaker 4: who she was that I knew that I was going

1217
01:01:23,525 --> 01:01:26,165
Speaker 4: to meet someone who had lost their best friend, and

1218
01:01:26,205 --> 01:01:30,645
Speaker 4: who had lost their best friend in the most extraordinary

1219
01:01:30,765 --> 01:01:36,245
Speaker 4: of circumstances, which was celebrating the joy of life. The

1220
01:01:36,325 --> 01:01:39,565
Speaker 4: conversation that I had with Bethany will stay with me

1221
01:01:40,205 --> 01:01:43,765
Speaker 4: for a long time. She could have chosen to stay quiet,

1222
01:01:44,285 --> 01:01:49,165
Speaker 4: she could have chosen to grieve privately. Instead, Bethany Clark

1223
01:01:49,245 --> 01:01:54,085
Speaker 4: is telling her story not just for her, not just

1224
01:01:54,245 --> 01:01:59,685
Speaker 4: for Simone, her girlfriend that she lost, but for every traveler.

1225
01:01:59,405 --> 01:02:00,765
Speaker 2: Who deserves to come home.

1226
01:02:02,285 --> 01:02:04,725
Speaker 4: Like I said, this is a conversation I will never forget,

1227
01:02:04,765 --> 01:02:08,085
Speaker 4: and I don't think you will either. The executive producer

1228
01:02:08,125 --> 01:02:11,285
Speaker 4: of No Filter is Brown and the senior producer is

1229
01:02:11,365 --> 01:02:15,485
Speaker 4: Bree Player. Audio production is by Jacob Brown and I

1230
01:02:15,525 --> 01:02:17,485
Speaker 4: am your host, Kate Langbrook.

1231
01:02:17,965 --> 01:02:19,885
Speaker 2: Thank you for listening to No Filter.