Speaker 1: Said, you're listening to a mum and mea podcast.
Speaker 2: Mamma may I acknowledges the traditional owners of the land
Speaker 2: and waters that this podcast is recorded on.
Speaker 1: You know. In my podcast, I ask people, you know,
Speaker 1: what are your biggest regrets? And some people have some
Speaker 1: some people who don't have that many. But I think
Speaker 1: I would have done it all the same again, even
Speaker 1: the horrid stuff, even the pain that I've gone through,
Speaker 1: even the mistakes I've made, I think I would have
Speaker 1: done it all over again.
Speaker 2: Hello and welcome to But Are You Happy? The podcast
Speaker 2: that asks the questions you've always wanted to know from
Speaker 2: the people who appear to have it all. I'm Claire Stevens,
Speaker 2: and today's guest is tam And Sassock. She is an
Speaker 2: actor known for playing characters like Danny Sutherland on Home
Speaker 2: and Away, Danny, what are you doing?
Speaker 1: Show, mister Fisher what we think of his showmnist attitude.
Speaker 3: Colleen Carlton on The Young and the.
Speaker 1: Restless, Well, she isn't fond of the really.
Speaker 2: Hip and Jenna Marshall on Pretty Little Eyes, which I
Speaker 2: was obsessed with. She also owns her own production company
Speaker 2: with her husband called Charlie Baby Productions. She hosts a
Speaker 2: podcast called The Shit Show with Tamon Cursock and is
Speaker 2: a very very funny creator online.
Speaker 3: When I was.
Speaker 2: Growing up, Taman Cursock was everywhere in Australian media. She
Speaker 2: was on the cover of all the magazines. She was
Speaker 2: on TV, she was at the logis. She had music
Speaker 2: I listened to and film clips. I studied for fashion
Speaker 2: and styling tips. She had a great fringe. I was
Speaker 2: obsessed with her and if I could have chosen what
Speaker 2: I wanted to look like as a teenager, I would
Speaker 2: have just pointed to a photo of Taman Sursock. But
Speaker 2: behind the scenes things weren't so glamorous. She had experienced
Speaker 2: bullying in her early teenage years, which wreaked havoc on
Speaker 2: her self esteem, and then as her fame grew, she's
Speaker 2: spoken recently about how she developed an eating disorder. She
Speaker 2: moved to Hollywood, and she lived through all the frustrations
Speaker 2: that come with not having control over your work opportunities,
Speaker 2: and now she's grappling with the parts of making art
Speaker 2: that are really difficult, like the compromises you have to make,
Speaker 2: the relentlessness of it, and how things like envy still
Speaker 2: pop up Taman is so open and honest, and I
Speaker 2: started by asking her about her childhood.
Speaker 1: I actually think that the happiest part of my life
Speaker 1: was sort of before I became a teenager. We immigrated
Speaker 1: from South Africa when I was five years old, so
Speaker 1: I was actually born in Johannesburg. I've actually only spent
Speaker 1: about fifteen of years of my life in Sydney, Australia,
Speaker 1: but I'm still obviously Nausie and I have my Australian citizenship.
Speaker 1: But the first part of my life I was in Johannesburg,
Speaker 1: and we immigrated when I was five years old, and
Speaker 1: you know, we came at a time that was really
Speaker 1: a really difficult time in South Africa, and my parents
Speaker 1: chose a better life for us. And what had happened
Speaker 1: is that when we immigrated, you can't take any money
Speaker 1: out of the country. So my parents, you know, had
Speaker 1: like a nest egg that they had set up in
Speaker 1: South Africa, and when we immigrated, we had to completely
Speaker 1: start again. And I really credit my parents' tenacity and
Speaker 1: hustle and just keeping everything together and making it seem
Speaker 1: like this was fun that we had to start over,
Speaker 1: rather than it was like this hard burden that we
Speaker 1: had to carry, and I really didn't know in the
Speaker 1: beginning how difficult it was for my parents to start
Speaker 1: over because it was always it never felt like we
Speaker 1: were going without in any way. My dad was very
Speaker 1: adamant to put us into private schools and that was
Speaker 1: where he spent his money, and we did go from
Speaker 1: rental property to rental property like every couple of years.
Speaker 1: But I didn't know that that wasn't, you know, normal,
Speaker 1: and I loved it all. You know, I had a
Speaker 1: very good childhood, Like I don't remember anything that was
Speaker 1: really that negative.
Speaker 2: What do you think was your you know, you say
Speaker 2: that kind of before you became a teenager was a
Speaker 2: really really happy time. What do you think changed? That's
Speaker 2: often a period as especially women. I think as we
Speaker 2: enter our teenage years, something changes, maybe an awareness of
Speaker 2: the world being a bit harder. What was that experience
Speaker 2: like for you?
Speaker 1: My I got bullied, So I was very happy until
Speaker 1: I started to get to that point where there's like
Speaker 1: pre pubescent and I was quite overweight. I was about
Speaker 1: ninety killers and I was severely bullied as a kid
Speaker 1: by my classmates. So when you at an old girls school,
Speaker 1: that's why I don't normal if I'll ever put my
Speaker 1: kids in a just single sex school, because there is,
Speaker 1: especially in young girls, there is that sort of pack mentality.
Speaker 1: And I was bullied a lot, and especially because of
Speaker 1: my size, and because of it, even though I was
Speaker 1: really happy being that size, because of that, I decided
Speaker 1: to lose weight in a healthy manner and it worked.
Speaker 1: I lost gosh. I was went down to forty nine
Speaker 1: kilos really fast, and it felt all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: I started to get attention and all these you know,
Speaker 1: people came out of the woodwork and were really nice
Speaker 1: to me, and it felt really good. And then I
Speaker 1: auditioned for Home and Away three to five months after
Speaker 1: I'd lost the weight, and I got the job. So
Speaker 1: there begins my struggle with self loathing and self worth
Speaker 1: and you know, from a very young age, when my
Speaker 1: brain was at a fertile environment to like really take
Speaker 1: on all this change in negativity. And I then didn't
Speaker 1: know how to stay small without not eating. And I
Speaker 1: think that was the part of my life that was
Speaker 1: interestingly some of the best parts of my life, but
Speaker 1: also some of the hardest. And it took me a
Speaker 1: very long time to be able to talk about it.
Speaker 1: I had to be fully recovered. I think most of
Speaker 1: the things that I talk about is because I've been
Speaker 1: able to come out on the other end. I don't
Speaker 1: know if I'm like in something, I just can't really
Speaker 1: communicate it in a succinct manner. But I think that
Speaker 1: that was it. I don't think that my quote unquote
Speaker 1: unhappiness came from anything other than getting successful at an
Speaker 1: age where like, I didn't really like myself, but then
Speaker 1: I also had this dichotomy of the world really liking me,
Speaker 1: but I didn't really know who I was, and I'm
Speaker 1: still trying to figure that out, and like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: who the fuck am I?
Speaker 2: You were in that really rare position of well, I
Speaker 2: guess it's not completely rare. Where your body changed and
Speaker 2: something happened, which was getting the role on Home and
Speaker 2: Away that you've said that you kind of internalized the
Speaker 2: belief that being thin meant being accepted and loved and adored.
Speaker 2: Because that happened at the same time, how did that
Speaker 2: manifest for you? Like, when you're on Home and Away,
Speaker 2: you were on magazine covers, you were winning awards, you
Speaker 2: were getting all this industry recognition. What did you feel
Speaker 2: internally about yourself.
Speaker 1: Oh that my worth was completely linked to the size
Speaker 1: of my genes. I mean, how could it not have been? Right?
Speaker 1: So the hero was this young kid who was bullied
Speaker 1: because of their size. They lose the weight and again
Speaker 1: Home and Away doesn't know this, like they just saw
Speaker 1: Rola came in and did a good job, and they
Speaker 1: gave me the job. But I knew that the girl
Speaker 1: before wasn't accepted, and the girl who looked a different
Speaker 1: way now and presented herself in a different way to
Speaker 1: the world was now accepted. So my self worth was
Speaker 1: dependent on my size. And also I lived through the nineties.
Speaker 1: I can't. I don't even know a woman who's able
Speaker 1: to come out of the nineties unscathed without some kind
Speaker 1: of distorted eating. I mean, the magazine covers. Everything in
Speaker 1: the media was you would feel better, you will love
Speaker 1: yourself more, ten kilo's lighter. You know. Everything was about
Speaker 1: like the next diet that would make you feel happier.
Speaker 2: I remember with my adolescence, you were the most beautiful
Speaker 2: girl in the world, like like like I looked at
Speaker 2: magazine covers and I remember thinking, if I could draw
Speaker 2: how I wanted to look, it would be Tamansas, and
Speaker 2: so I think it's actually really insightful to know that
Speaker 2: the person that I was so admiring was suffering from
Speaker 2: what I was suffering from, which was feeling like I
Speaker 2: wasn't good enough. You have shared a story which I
Speaker 2: remember reading years ago and being really moved by. Wait,
Speaker 2: you talked about being a kid and a boy approaching
Speaker 2: me and making a Jenny Craig joke. Yeah, can you
Speaker 2: share that story and how you felt in that moment?
Speaker 1: And I was at the knock School dance actually, and I.
Speaker 3: Was I went to a knock school dance, I know.
Speaker 1: And I remember I felt so cute, and my mom
Speaker 1: was there supporting me, and she dropped me off and
Speaker 1: we like, you know, gotten their nails done and bought
Speaker 1: the formal dress. And my brother actually went to the
Speaker 1: same school, and there was a boy that I was
Speaker 1: just super crushing on and he made eyes at me,
Speaker 1: and I just remember like the whole world began to
Speaker 1: decolor and I just everything was like in slow motion,
Speaker 1: and I could see him walking towards and I thought,
Speaker 1: this is it, Like this is the moment where you
Speaker 1: know the guy that I've been feverishly anticipating will one
Speaker 1: day come up to me in my dreams.
Speaker 3: This was it.
Speaker 1: This was the moment, and he walked up to me
Speaker 1: and he said, you need to go to Jenny Craig.
Speaker 1: And I remember it so well because I don't even
Speaker 1: know if in that moment I thought I'm broken, but
Speaker 1: I almost want to. I don't even know who he
Speaker 1: is these days, who he is, but I'd almost like
Speaker 1: to thank him if he ever finds out about my
Speaker 1: story and this so he probably doesn't remember, but that
Speaker 1: comment changed the course of my life for the rest
Speaker 1: of my life. Now, were there peaks and valleys? Absolutely?
Speaker 1: Was my head in a toilet bowl for the better
Speaker 1: part of four years. Absolutely, But something in that moment
Speaker 1: made me want change. I thought it was healthy to
Speaker 1: start with, and it was, and then it diverted into
Speaker 1: not being healthy.
Speaker 2: When you got to Hollywood. Was the body image stuff exacerbated?
Speaker 2: Like is Hollywood just a completely different level in terms
Speaker 2: of the self criticism comparing yourself to other people?
Speaker 1: Oh, the comparison I still struggle with on a daily basis,
Speaker 1: to the point where I don't suffer depression, but it
Speaker 1: can get me in a depressive state if I spend
Speaker 1: too much time looking through other people's social media. The
Speaker 1: funny thing is that by the time I got to
Speaker 1: Los Angeles, I had gotten through the worst of my
Speaker 1: eating disorder. And I actually met my husband Sean, who
Speaker 1: have been with for eighteen years now, six months after
Speaker 1: I got to America, and I had only I was
Speaker 1: kind of on the edge of my eating disorder. And
Speaker 1: I remember one time purging while we were together and
Speaker 1: the look of like sadness in his eyes. I'll never
Speaker 1: forget because he knew what I did and why I
Speaker 1: did it, and I guess the self loathing I had
Speaker 1: at that time, and I looked at him and I thought,
Speaker 1: I don't ever want to feel like this again, Like
Speaker 1: I don't ever want to feel sick again. I don't
Speaker 1: ever want to feel like someone feels I feel shame
Speaker 1: in front of but also feel sorry for me. And
Speaker 1: in that moment, I just was like, that was it,
Speaker 1: Like I never did it again. And that was the
Speaker 1: beginning of getting to Los Angeles. And I realized also
Speaker 1: about addiction is that you can try to help someone
Speaker 1: through addiction as much as you can, but unless that
Speaker 1: person hits their rock bottom and unless they fully want
Speaker 1: to change, or there's a light bulb moment or an
Speaker 1: epiphany that happens, nothing is going to change, And that
Speaker 1: was my moment. I was twenty twenty three and I
Speaker 1: never did it again. I didn't even get sick when
Speaker 1: I was pregnant, so God was like, you're done.
Speaker 3: You're done, No more sickness is for you, and enough
Speaker 3: of that?
Speaker 2: Did you find mind that the body image stuff came
Speaker 2: up again through pregnancy and both partum, Like when when
Speaker 2: you've been through that and you've had that experience in
Speaker 2: your younger years and you've come through it, was that
Speaker 2: a trigger for you going through that period.
Speaker 1: I actually really loved being pregnant. I think women hate that.
Speaker 1: I say this because I really loved. And I think
Speaker 1: it's because my mental health. I struggle with anxiety and
Speaker 1: generalized anxiety disorder, and I think that the hormones so
Speaker 1: much progesteron made me really chill, so like I was
Speaker 1: cruising through pregnancy like I never I was like, is
Speaker 1: this what people feel like on a daily basis? I
Speaker 1: felt very calm that being said, I yes, did I
Speaker 1: despise my body afterwards? Yes? Did it ever get back
Speaker 1: to It's like some people bounce back whatever the f
Speaker 1: that means I did not. I had two five kilo
Speaker 1: babies ten pound babies. They cut them out. I have
Speaker 1: stretch marks, I have loose skin. I might or mightn't
Speaker 1: fix it one day. I have a tear in my
Speaker 1: abdomen from my kids. I don't know. Maybe I will,
Speaker 1: maybe I won't. But I don't think I've ever truly
Speaker 1: loved my body. And I don't really know any woman
Speaker 1: that has. I don't know anyone of my friendship group
Speaker 1: that walks around loving their body. And I think it's
Speaker 1: really sad because I know what happens to men too.
Speaker 1: But the men in my life look in the mirror
Speaker 1: and think they're hot stuff, which is wonderful. But I
Speaker 1: don't think I love my body now. I don't think
Speaker 1: I love my body. Then, I don't think I love
Speaker 1: my body being pregnant, not being pregnant. So your question is,
Speaker 1: did it trigger anything. I don't think I've ever really
Speaker 1: been on the other side of loving my figure. I
Speaker 1: mean there are moments of it, right, there's like sparks
Speaker 1: and flex of like, oh, I think I look great today,
Speaker 1: But I will say that the shit that I give
Speaker 1: about my body is so meaningless now as I've gotten older,
Speaker 1: I really just don't care. Do I care about my health, yes?
Speaker 1: Do I care about being able to bend down to
Speaker 1: pick up my kids? Yes? Do I care about my body? Like,
Speaker 1: I just really don't care. I've worked so much internally
Speaker 1: that I just think there's so much more to focus
Speaker 1: on that I kind of find it now boring. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Like if I have a conversation with a friend who
Speaker 1: starts just talking about body image, I really check out.
Speaker 1: It just bores me.
Speaker 2: You After Home and Away, you pursued a music career,
Speaker 2: and I remember it so vividly. You had such bangers
Speaker 2: as perfect relationships.
Speaker 3: She placed all that time and whatever will be.
Speaker 1: Whatever will be will be, and then.
Speaker 3: The good, bad and.
Speaker 2: The whole Those film clips have on me, the fringe,
Speaker 2: the fashion, they were absolutely everything. Did you choose to
Speaker 2: move on from music or was it not giving you
Speaker 2: what you wanted it to?
Speaker 1: So I've been writing this last month, this part of
Speaker 1: the chapter of my book, which was about the music
Speaker 1: business and moving to London. I actually moved to London
Speaker 1: after Australia for LA to release music, and the week
Speaker 1: before my album was going to be released, I left
Speaker 1: on my own accord I was done. I guess I
Speaker 1: should just say you have to read it all in
Speaker 1: the book, because unfortunately, if I give little snippets of it,
Speaker 1: it can come out wrong. But it wasn't exactly what
Speaker 1: I thought it was going to be record labels, and
Speaker 1: I'm really I was really young. I'm not sure it
Speaker 1: was completely what I wanted if it was handled the
Speaker 1: way that I wanted it to be. There's just a
Speaker 1: lot that goes on in the music business, and I
Speaker 1: think it's different now, but I will share all of it,
Speaker 1: going to name names. It just didn't feel right, and
Speaker 1: I am proud of myself at twenty two that I
Speaker 1: knew I had to get out of it. It doesn't
Speaker 1: mean I don't love music, and it doesn't mean I
Speaker 1: haven't been writing music. It just means that I think
Speaker 1: I just wasn't ready for it, and I was not
Speaker 1: releasing the music that I really wanted to release. Although
Speaker 1: I loved the songs, I was really really at that
Speaker 1: time wanting to do more of a Dido, Natalie and
Speaker 1: Brulia thing, and I just wasn't seen in that light,
Speaker 1: which is okay. You have to also, you know, respect
Speaker 1: the people who know the business more than you do
Speaker 1: at twenty one. But music is still there. It's still
Speaker 1: in my soul. And I'm writing actually funnily enough in
Speaker 1: Nashville because it's the epicenter of music, and I think
Speaker 1: when the time is right, then I think music will
Speaker 1: come along. Sorry to be so not that's fascinating, really
Speaker 1: open about it, but yeah, I just it was an interesting, difficult, tough,
Speaker 1: exhilarating time.
Speaker 2: After the break, I asked Hammond whether comparing herself to
Speaker 2: others was amplified when she moved to Hollywood. You seem
Speaker 2: to have had a really strong sense of self awareness
Speaker 2: or sense of what you wanted from a very young age.
Speaker 2: Even you did Home and Away and then you pursued music,
Speaker 2: and then you went to Hollywood. You were very It
Speaker 2: seemed like you knew what you wanted and you weren't
Speaker 2: afraid to make what were probably a series of quite
Speaker 2: tough decisions. Like I can imagine you're on Home and Away,
Speaker 2: Australia is obsessed with you. It's a risk to then
Speaker 2: go and try something new. Was that intimidating? Was it scary?
Speaker 2: Did you after you weren't doing music anymore and you
Speaker 2: went to Hollywood, did you kind of dwell in the
Speaker 2: disappointment of it, or were you just excited for what
Speaker 2: was next.
Speaker 1: I think as I've gotten older, I don't really give
Speaker 1: myself props a lot, and that's what I'm working on
Speaker 1: in therapy, like actually complimenting myself because I always say
Speaker 1: the negative. But I think I have a really good
Speaker 1: sense of what is right for me, Like I don't
Speaker 1: have a plan B. This is it. There is no well,
Speaker 1: if acting doesn't work out, then I'll become a real
Speaker 1: estate agent. Like there is no plan B. There's nothing
Speaker 1: that I'm designed for. There's nothing I've studied more than acting.
Speaker 1: There's nothing that I love more than it. I think
Speaker 1: that I've been lucky enough that my content creation on
Speaker 1: my social media has actually been my side job for
Speaker 1: many years, and I'm so grateful to work with great brands.
Speaker 1: But at the end of the day, it's still acting, right,
Speaker 1: I'm still acting in these things for social media. So
Speaker 1: I guess my basis has always been entertaining people. And
Speaker 1: I think because there's no plan B, if it doesn't
Speaker 1: feel right in my gut, I'm there isn't really any dwelling.
Speaker 1: Because I always say to my therapist, I just sometimes
Speaker 1: I wafft between and She's like, but you always end
Speaker 1: up making the decision that feels right and you never
Speaker 1: regret it. You know. In my podcast, I ask people,
Speaker 1: you know, what are your biggest regrets? And some people
Speaker 1: have some and some people don't have that many. But
Speaker 1: I think I would have done it all the same again,
Speaker 1: even the hard stuff, even the pain that I've gone through,
Speaker 1: even the mistakes I've made, I think I would have
Speaker 1: done it all over again. I mean there's some times
Speaker 1: that I kick myself that I was so close to
Speaker 1: like me Megan Fox are another girl for Transformers, and
Speaker 1: me Kaylee Kuoko and two other girls for Big Bang Theory.
Speaker 1: I mean, those are the type of jobs that are
Speaker 1: so life changing for many reasons that I think if
Speaker 1: only I got those jobs, but then my children wouldn't exist. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, and my children are my family, is my
Speaker 1: whole world. So would I give up Transformers for them? Absolutely?
Speaker 1: I wouldn't even think about it. I kind of think
Speaker 1: it all was meant to be. And the funny thing,
Speaker 1: which is not your question, but they've come to terms
Speaker 1: with this too, is I don't think I've even begun
Speaker 1: I haven't even sorted. I haven't even scratched the surface
Speaker 1: of what I want to do, what I think I'm
Speaker 1: capable of doing.
Speaker 2: It's interesting, though, that you think that about yourself, whereas
Speaker 2: from the outside you are incredibly ambitious. You've taken big risks.
Speaker 2: You made it in Australia, and then we're clearly like,
Speaker 2: well that's not enough. I'm going to make it in America.
Speaker 2: And you went to Hollywood. You got roles on The
Speaker 2: Young and the Wrestlers, Hannah Montana and my personal favorite
Speaker 2: as Jenna on Pretty Little Liars. What were the differences
Speaker 2: that you noticed working in the industry in Australia and
Speaker 2: working in the industry in the US. Is it a
Speaker 2: different culture.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Australia will always have the you'll be right sort
Speaker 1: of attitude. The nothing's that much of a drama, which
Speaker 1: is great, you know, oh yeah, whatever you need. I
Speaker 1: felt like filming in places like austro Australia and even
Speaker 1: like the UK, it seemed more like a family dynamic.
Speaker 1: I mean again, I started when I was really young,
Speaker 1: so I still wanted to make sure that I was,
Speaker 1: you know, professional, and I didn't screw up. I had
Speaker 1: a bit of a perfectionist issue when I was younger too,
Speaker 1: and I didn't want to let anyone down. But going
Speaker 1: back to neighbors recently, I was like, oh my goodness,
Speaker 1: this is such an easier mentality than the States. And
Speaker 1: we were talking about this before we started the podcast.
Speaker 1: There's so many great things about Australia and so many
Speaker 1: great things about America too, and sometimes people can look
Speaker 1: at America and go, well, why do you live there?
Speaker 1: And for me, whether you like it or not, with
Speaker 1: three hundred million people, it is the land of opportunity.
Speaker 1: And the thing that I love about America, especially in
Speaker 1: the film business, is if someone makes it, everyone around
Speaker 1: them praises and gets excited for their success because it
Speaker 1: means that they ultimately have a chance at success too.
Speaker 1: And I love that support when it comes to you
Speaker 1: could be anything here. You could be homeless one day
Speaker 1: and make you know, millions of dollars the next, and
Speaker 1: people actually really they praise that they like band together.
Speaker 1: So on set, I felt like when someone did a
Speaker 1: scene that was great, everyone sort of like cheered and
Speaker 1: whistled and a lot of congratulations. I did feel though
Speaker 1: that in some of the shows, and I'm not gonna say, specifically,
Speaker 1: you work with people who have been given a lot
Speaker 1: when you're in you know, the film business, a lot
Speaker 1: of yes people, and so there was definitely egos that
Speaker 1: I had to sort of maneuver around that wasn't present
Speaker 1: in Australia because everyone kind of is We're taught to like,
Speaker 1: not make a fuss, right and don't think you're too big,
Speaker 1: and don't speak too too loud, and in the States
Speaker 1: it's just not like that.
Speaker 2: Up next, Taman talks about the times in her life
Speaker 2: where her world appeared perfect and shiny, but beneath the surface,
Speaker 2: she was really struggling. I have a theory that the
Speaker 2: world lies to us a bit about happiness, and that
Speaker 2: often the moments where we expect to be the happiest
Speaker 2: or that look the shiniest from the outside, are actually not. Yeah,
Speaker 2: do you have any examples of when you looked like
Speaker 2: you were on top of the world, how to chase
Speaker 2: something incredible? It looked super glamorous, but under the surface
Speaker 2: it was very different.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm going to say a recent one that's
Speaker 1: probably more relatable, because yes, of course there are times
Speaker 1: at home and away that I was you know, when
Speaker 1: I went to the logis. I remember I'd eaten like
Speaker 1: half a packet of rice cakes that entire day, and
Speaker 1: I felt like I was gonna pass out like things
Speaker 1: like that. Of course magazine covers, Oh whatever will be
Speaker 1: the music video. I was really deep in my bulimia
Speaker 1: stage when we show that in Shanghai, and I remember,
Speaker 1: like even scenes, I can like tell that my eyes
Speaker 1: were bloodshot, and just lots of that sort of thing.
Speaker 1: But recently we went to Italy and it.
Speaker 3: Was awful wow.
Speaker 1: And I actually posted about how awful it was on
Speaker 1: my feed because I was like, I'm not going to
Speaker 1: see another freakin' feed of someone in Europe saying, oh
Speaker 1: my god, I'm there with my kids and it's so great.
Speaker 1: I'm like bull shit. Firstly, the reason it was so
Speaker 1: awful is I had just finished a movie. We were
Speaker 1: actually supposed to go in the early part of summer,
Speaker 1: so it wasn't gonna be as crowded, it wasn't gonna
Speaker 1: be as hot. But then, luckily enough, I booked a
Speaker 1: movie and I was shooting just near Boston in Mystic, Connecticut,
Speaker 1: and I was shooting for a month, and so we're like, well,
Speaker 1: I hadn't been to Italy for years and years and years.
Speaker 1: It's my favorite spot, one of my favorite spots. I
Speaker 1: got married in Italy and my eldest had been there
Speaker 1: when she was very young, didn't remember. My youngest who's five,
Speaker 1: hadn't been there, so it was a good travel. Ages
Speaker 1: ten and five, I was like, we're gonna go to Italy.
Speaker 1: We almost didn't have our passports because we had to
Speaker 1: renew the kids passports. But you can't actually renew them.
Speaker 1: You have to get a new one every time, like
Speaker 1: after every five years, you have to get a new one.
Speaker 1: So that was the whole thing.
Speaker 3: Becaus in the photo their bloody babies.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no one told me that. They go, oh, it's
Speaker 1: just a renewals. We're like, great, that'll take a week,
Speaker 1: but it's like six weeks. So we had to pay
Speaker 1: a ridiculous, disgusting amount of money to try to get
Speaker 1: them expedited by the government. Then they got lost in
Speaker 1: the post. Anyway, the day before we left, we got
Speaker 1: the passports and I remember going like, this is gonna
Speaker 1: be the best, This is gonna be the best trip.
Speaker 1: I've always wanted to go to Italy. The minute we landed,
Speaker 1: it was like forty three degrees Celsius. We had neck
Speaker 1: fans on, we had ice packs. Of course, I'm like,
Speaker 1: we have to see the call, see him. We have
Speaker 1: to go see the Duomo, we have to go see
Speaker 1: the Cistine Chapel. My family like hated me. My husband
Speaker 1: and I fought the entire time. I called our therapist
Speaker 1: and I was like, we need an emergency session. And
Speaker 1: I called her. I'm like, I can't stand him right now.
Speaker 1: I remember driving. We had to drive from Venice so
Speaker 1: like another place that was six hours awak. We fought
Speaker 1: the entire journey. I don't even know about what. It
Speaker 1: wasn't even about some bigger picture thing about our lives
Speaker 1: or how we raise our children or what we believe.
Speaker 1: It was none of that. It was something ridiculous about
Speaker 1: him being moody and me saying he ruined the trip,
Speaker 1: and he's like, but it's really hot, and I'm like,
Speaker 1: suck it up. Honestly, I remember this moment. I remember
Speaker 1: this for the rest of my life. When we got
Speaker 1: on that plane going from Italy back to America, I
Speaker 1: looked at him and it was the first time I
Speaker 1: saw him smile in two and a half weeks. He
Speaker 1: looked at me, and he had this grin, this grin
Speaker 1: that I was waiting to see every day for two
Speaker 1: weeks in Italy. I thought he was gonna like pick
Speaker 1: me up and it was gonna be this beautiful we
Speaker 1: experience of our wedding and he was gonna feed me
Speaker 1: pasta and gelato. No, he bitched the entire drip. I
Speaker 1: bached him for bitching. The kids bitched because we were bitching.
Speaker 1: It was just awful. We spent so much money on
Speaker 1: it that I can't get back, and we should have
Speaker 1: just done it. We should have parked ourselves after the
Speaker 1: movie we were all exhausted. Yeah, parked ourselves in like
Speaker 1: a kid's all inclusive place for five days where we
Speaker 1: just got to lay down and the kids went to
Speaker 1: kids club. And that would have been a way better vacation.
Speaker 1: And to be honest, like, I'm really careful about waste,
Speaker 1: and we don't go on vacations a lot. We are
Speaker 1: normally working or saving for our future. We're not that
Speaker 1: couple that goes on a European vacation. So it was
Speaker 1: like really disappointing too, because my expectations, which is the
Speaker 1: only way to happiness, is to recalibrate your expectations and
Speaker 1: control your reactivity. But my expectations was everyone's gonna have
Speaker 1: a blast, and no one.
Speaker 2: I think travel is so one of those times where
Speaker 2: I think because it's also been flattened, like we absorb
Speaker 2: it through TikTok and Instagram and you see these perfect
Speaker 2: photos and you just imagine that it's going to be
Speaker 2: the perfect temperature, you're gonna look stunning every day, professional hair,
Speaker 2: professional makeup, and with kids, you think, oh, obviously kids
Speaker 2: are going to behave themselves and they're going to absolutely
Speaker 2: love it because they're in Europe. And then there's the
Speaker 2: compounding guilt of being somewhere spending I had a trip
Speaker 2: I went to Fiji and had the same experience.
Speaker 3: We were on an island.
Speaker 2: It was so expensive everything there and every day I
Speaker 2: just felt sick. And it really compounds the sadness of
Speaker 2: it because it's the idea that you should be feeling
Speaker 2: so so so happy. I reckon so many people have
Speaker 2: had that exact experience with a holiday.
Speaker 1: I really think it's ow judy, as just humans on
Speaker 1: this planet, to be honest on social media about the
Speaker 1: reality of what it's like. The reason I started becoming
Speaker 1: so honest was because I didn't see anyone else talking
Speaker 1: about the mental, physical, emotional load that parenting had on
Speaker 1: like a woman. And you know, obviously it has a
Speaker 1: own father too, but like really on a mother. And
Speaker 1: I also live in a country where there is no
Speaker 1: there is no paid medical We are the only first
Speaker 1: world country that has no paid materially nothing zero, yeah, nothing,
Speaker 1: And there's no programs, there's nothing. There's no help with breastfitting.
Speaker 1: They send you home with a blanket and they're like,
Speaker 1: good luck to you, and you don't know what you're doing.
Speaker 1: Like I thought, well, I have to now talk about
Speaker 1: this on my social media because I felt so alone
Speaker 1: in motherhood and so isolated that I thought, well, at
Speaker 1: least if I can help one person feel less alone
Speaker 1: in their journey, then I've like done something.
Speaker 2: Your social media content is incredible. It is so funny.
Speaker 2: I just honestly, I can scroll through for so long
Speaker 2: and just laugh out loud at your videos because I
Speaker 2: know that being a woman on social media, you've clearly
Speaker 2: found an audience who thinks it's absolutely hilarious and who
Speaker 2: really really relates to what you're sharing. Has your relationship
Speaker 2: with social media ever become toxic. Have you ever had
Speaker 2: issues with getting comments that upset you or getting feedback
Speaker 2: from people that feels really personal. Has it ever been
Speaker 2: something that actually really compromises your happiness.
Speaker 1: I've been really blessed that I do get a few comments,
Speaker 1: but I really don't until they go really viral. I've
Speaker 1: had a few that have gone to like fifty million,
Speaker 1: and when that happens, you don't know. It's like throwing
Speaker 1: a stone into I don't know what I'm going to get, Like,
Speaker 1: I don't know what's under that water, and all my goodness,
Speaker 1: when they go really viral, I don't even open them.
Speaker 1: I really don't. I don't spend a lot of time
Speaker 1: in my comment section. I do spend a lot of
Speaker 1: time on my dms because I like to have like
Speaker 1: a relationship with people who are on my feed and
Speaker 1: like they so many wonderful hips and advice and gosh,
Speaker 1: I've learnt so much from my followers too. I will
Speaker 1: say that what is taken away from my happiness is
Speaker 1: it's really hard when creativity has to also be what
Speaker 1: feeds you. And that is the biggest issue that I
Speaker 1: have with my creativity in general, whether it's social media, acting, podcasting,
Speaker 1: whatever is that. Mine and my husband's jobs are in
Speaker 1: the creative field and they are what pays for our house.
Speaker 1: I'll travel our kids' schools. And it's really hard sometimes
Speaker 1: to be creative when financial gain is attached to that,
Speaker 1: because sometimes you lose sight of like what really is
Speaker 1: your purpose and your soul of why you're doing something
Speaker 1: because you need the views, you need the people to
Speaker 1: watch your movie, you need people to listen to your podcast,
Speaker 1: because it becomes it's called the film business. It's not
Speaker 1: the film fun. It's a business when you go down
Speaker 1: the street as a billboard because it pays for the street.
Speaker 1: When you listen to a podcast, it's an ad because
Speaker 1: it peays for that podcast. So that's my biggest thing.
Speaker 1: When your question was has it taken away my happiness?
Speaker 1: It's taken away my happiness at times.
Speaker 2: Because it has to do well, we don't pay the mortgage, right, Yeah,
Speaker 2: So that's I think what's difficult about art? And do
Speaker 2: you find that on social media you compare like the
Speaker 2: way that you use it. Do you find yourself comparing
Speaker 2: yourself to other people? Do you find yourself jealous or envious?
Speaker 2: Every day and living in America and it being that
Speaker 2: three hundred million people, it's just a bigger world. It's
Speaker 2: a bigger pond and there are a really big fish.
Speaker 2: Is jealousy something that you often contend with?
Speaker 1: So I learned this recently. Jealousy and envy are different.
Speaker 1: And jealousy is more when you want more to be them,
Speaker 1: like you're jealous of who they are, what they have,
Speaker 1: the person that they are. And I think envy is
Speaker 1: when you look on the outside and there's something about
Speaker 1: what they have that you would like in your own life.
Speaker 1: So I like my life and I would like more
Speaker 1: of this, please. That's envy, And jealousy is like what
Speaker 1: you really want who they are?
Speaker 3: Yeah right?
Speaker 1: And I don't ever look at people on social media
Speaker 1: and go, oh, I wish I had their life because
Speaker 1: I actually am, for the most part, happy with my life.
Speaker 1: There's some things I'd like to change, but I do
Speaker 1: get envious a lot. I get very envious because sometimes
Speaker 1: I don't feel like it's fair. I feel, you know,
Speaker 1: whether people know me like me or not. I have
Speaker 1: worked my ass off since I was fifteen years old.
Speaker 1: My husband I go to bed at one, we wake
Speaker 1: up at five point thirty. We go to bed at
Speaker 1: one because we're constantly creating or trying to create for
Speaker 1: our production company or podcast or coming up with content
Speaker 1: creation idea. Like, we don't stop. We've never stopped. We
Speaker 1: don't really have the luxury to just have time off.
Speaker 1: We don't have date nights. We're all in. And I
Speaker 1: get envious sometimes when I feel like someone has become
Speaker 1: really successful and it's seemingly which is probably not true,
Speaker 1: seemingly happened overnight. Yeah, again, is never true, right because
Speaker 1: you don't see all the hard work that goes underneath it.
Speaker 1: But I do get envious sometimes for sure. And I compare.
Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, I compare so much that I have
Speaker 1: to really check myself and know that that's something that
Speaker 1: I'm doing.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I can't imagine being an actor where your livelihood is
Speaker 2: so much determined by other people's decisions.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2: And I can completely see that there would be parts
Speaker 2: of that that would not be fair. There would be
Speaker 2: all thoughts of like certain connections that people have or
Speaker 2: personal relationships or you know, things totally beyond your control
Speaker 2: that would lead to getting or not getting opportunities. Is
Speaker 2: that something you've struggled with in the past, like when
Speaker 2: you talk about you know, Big Bang theory and saying
Speaker 2: Kaylee kloko, get that role. How do you wrestle with that?
Speaker 2: Does it feel like failure? Like what does it feel
Speaker 2: like to miss out on something like that?
Speaker 1: It just depends on the day and the time period
Speaker 1: of my life. I think the things that I'm good
Speaker 1: at is moving on fast. I've always been very good
Speaker 1: at moving through it very fast. I don't linger on anything.
Speaker 1: I mean, some hurt more than others, but I feel
Speaker 1: like a failure on a daily basis, but then also
Speaker 1: not a failure on a daily basis. So it's a
Speaker 1: hard question because it's like, what is the authentic me?
Speaker 1: The authentic me knows that I've just started and I
Speaker 1: am going to get where I want to get to
Speaker 1: because there's no other plan. B, there's no other choice.
Speaker 1: And the monkey brain and the catastrophized thinking and the
Speaker 1: black and white thinking holds on to that little girl
Speaker 1: who was tea who's like, yeah, you are a loser.
Speaker 1: So I beat myself up a lot, but then I
Speaker 1: also come out of it. So I do think that
Speaker 1: I have developed, like it or not, a resilience that
Speaker 1: might be stronger than the average resilience because I've probably
Speaker 1: been rejected thousands and thousands of times. I don't know
Speaker 1: someone who would go, Okay, let's go back into that again. Yeah,
Speaker 1: let's get rejected one more time. Yeah.
Speaker 3: And a lot of people, a lot of people can't
Speaker 3: do it. A lot of people give.
Speaker 1: Up to give up. And I do believe, and this
Speaker 1: isn't my husband, I say, I do believe that success
Speaker 1: in this business is about the last person standing. I
Speaker 1: really do. I think at some point it's whoever's willing
Speaker 1: to stay in the storm.
Speaker 2: And then that's about character, That is about kind of
Speaker 2: who you are intrinsically rather than any.
Speaker 3: Of the bullshit.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's who's determined enough to stand there and keep trying.
Speaker 2: When you think about growing up, looking back at your life,
Speaker 2: what is it that you think will have been what
Speaker 2: made you happy? Like when you really zoom out, what
Speaker 2: is it that you're going to focus on or that's
Speaker 2: going to be the thing on your deathbed that you're like,
Speaker 2: that is what gave me meaning and joy?
Speaker 1: Oh, it's not even a question. And I'm sure most
Speaker 1: people say this, so maybe they don't, But like my family,
Speaker 1: there's not even a question, like I'm not going to
Speaker 1: sit and say like, oh, I wish I won that Emmy.
Speaker 1: You know, although my work has given me such intense
Speaker 1: pleasure and incredible moments of finding out who I am
Speaker 1: through characters that I've played, Like, I love what I
Speaker 1: do and I find so much joy in it, and
Speaker 1: I think parenting is harder than me an actor. But
Speaker 1: there's something so undeniable about like the moments that you
Speaker 1: have with your children that are perfect that Again I say,
Speaker 1: I'm not that religious, but I'm like that, right, there
Speaker 1: is proof that there's a God. When I have that
Speaker 1: those moments, I'm like, oh, I'm not afraid of what
Speaker 1: happens next because I just witnessed something that was unexplainable.
Speaker 1: And I don't have that with acting. I have a
Speaker 1: sense of flow, which is this beautiful thing that comes
Speaker 1: over me. And I had it with writing today. And
Speaker 1: I was writing my book and actually didn't know what
Speaker 1: I wrote. I wrote five pages and I was like,
Speaker 1: I had no clue what I wrote. I blacked out
Speaker 1: and I reread it and that's really cool because you
Speaker 1: feel like time completely stops. But I never am in
Speaker 1: my work and I go, oh, this is the closest
Speaker 1: to God I'm ever going to get.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that comes from people, and yeah.
Speaker 1: Kids And also I think children like are the closest
Speaker 1: to something that we are still trying to find as
Speaker 1: we get older. There's like such beauty and just like
Speaker 1: witnessing them.
Speaker 2: We all always end this podcast by asking, right now,
Speaker 2: with your life as it is, are you happy?
Speaker 1: I'm pretty happy. I think that there are some things,
Speaker 1: circumstantial things in our lives right now that don't make
Speaker 1: me the happiest that I'm not sure can be fixed
Speaker 1: right this second, but I would say, in this moment,
Speaker 1: I am pretty happy.
Speaker 2: Are they things to do with work and kind of
Speaker 2: the architecture of life, that nitty gritty kind of part
Speaker 2: of it.
Speaker 1: I think it's family. I think it's trying to figure out,
Speaker 1: you know, my parents are getting older. It's trying to
Speaker 1: figure out how to split time in both places we
Speaker 1: also live. The kids got accepted into schools before we
Speaker 1: moved to buy this house, and so we drive forty
Speaker 1: five minutes each way, which does take up much time.
Speaker 1: And then also it sounds so silly, but because to
Speaker 1: get up at six am, they're exhausted, and it's kind
Speaker 1: of a it's a trickle down effect because they're exhausted,
Speaker 1: We're rushing them when they get home, we're rushing them
Speaker 1: into bed. They feel overwhelmed. So there's dad I'd like
Speaker 1: to figure out. And then I think I'm not fully
Speaker 1: flying in the capabilities of my career. I don't know
Speaker 1: how much of this is true, but it could be
Speaker 1: because I'm stuck in my own sort of dogma of
Speaker 1: my belief system of what I truly am allowed to
Speaker 1: do or I'm capable to do in my career. So
Speaker 1: I'm kind of limiting myself with like limiting belief system.
Speaker 1: And I'm also bogged down on things that I'm doing
Speaker 1: that help out family out, like financially, that's probably not
Speaker 1: really where my heart is. So trying to figure out
Speaker 1: how to really do the things that I love and
Speaker 1: to fly in that way.
Speaker 2: I think that's a tension for a lot of people,
Speaker 2: is doing what is best for your family but doesn't
Speaker 2: necessarily serve you. And it's one of those tensions that
Speaker 2: I think as a parent is pretty enduring and can
Speaker 2: be really.
Speaker 1: Hard because people ask me a lot, They say, why
Speaker 1: don't you live in Australia full time? And I keep saying, well, unfortunately,
Speaker 1: the film business and the television business as we stand
Speaker 1: right now, we're a tenth of the United States, so
Speaker 1: it's a tenth of the opportunity, and I cannot provide
Speaker 1: from my family the way I can provide for them
Speaker 1: in the States. And I'm really hoping at some point
Speaker 1: that changes, because yeah, like, why wouldn't we want to
Speaker 1: be there at twenty four.
Speaker 2: Sevens, that's all we've got time for. On today's episode
Speaker 2: of But Are You Happy? Tamon Sasock really is one
Speaker 2: of those people whose life looks exceptionally shiny from the outside.
Speaker 2: But I hope this conversation was a firm reminder of
Speaker 2: the way we all grapple with a very similar set
Speaker 2: of struggles. She's play by comparing herself to other people.
Speaker 2: She has missed out on things that she really wanted
Speaker 2: at the time. She has that desire to support herself
Speaker 2: and her family, and then the struggle of balancing doing
Speaker 2: what she loves while also making a living. And even
Speaker 2: if somebody who is not a Hollywood actor, was not
Speaker 2: a famous teenager who doesn't have my own production company
Speaker 2: or a whole lot of people following me online, I
Speaker 2: got a lot out of this conversation with Tamment. I
Speaker 2: think the way she shares the gritty, imperfect parts of
Speaker 2: her life is a gift, and I really want to
Speaker 2: thank her for her openness in chatting to me. This
Speaker 2: is also our last episode for the season, and I
Speaker 2: feel like in this season we got a new level
Speaker 2: of depth. We got some really diverse stories and a
Speaker 2: variety of conversations, and I would absolutely love to know
Speaker 2: from you what you got out of season.
Speaker 3: You can share it with me.
Speaker 2: You can slide into my DMS or we've got an
Speaker 2: Instagram account, but are you happy account? You can slide
Speaker 2: in there. We might put a question box up. We
Speaker 2: want to know which episodes resonated the most with you,
Speaker 2: what stories stuck with you, and who else you would
Speaker 2: love to hear from. Please get in touch. There were
Speaker 2: several themes throughout this season that might have brought things up,
Speaker 2: so we've got some resources for support in the show notes.
Speaker 2: We've also got a few surprises coming in the feed,
Speaker 2: so keep an eye out. There's a very exciting interview
Speaker 2: that will be dropping soon, and there will also be
Speaker 2: other things dropping when you are least expecting to hear
Speaker 2: from us.
Speaker 3: You can also leave a review.
Speaker 2: It really helps people to find us and to listen
Speaker 2: to these conversations. You can share the show with a
Speaker 2: friend and and we'll see you next season. The executive
Speaker 2: producer of that Are You Happy? His name A Brown.
Speaker 2: The producer is Charlie Blackman. Audio by Tom Lyon. And
Speaker 2: I'm your host Chleas Stevens and I've loved hanging out
Speaker 2: with you for the last several weeks. We'll chat to
Speaker 2: you again soon.
Speaker 3: Thanks.