1 00:00:06,415 --> 00:00:13,535 Speaker 1: You're listening to a Muma Mea podcast. Good morning, Welcome 2 00:00:13,535 --> 00:00:18,055 Speaker 1: to the Quickie. I'm Claire Murphy. The Kyle and Jackie 3 00:00:18,095 --> 00:00:20,854 Speaker 1: O radio show came to a sensational end last week 4 00:00:21,015 --> 00:00:24,695 Speaker 1: after a very public on air dressing down, some hurt feelings, 5 00:00:24,775 --> 00:00:28,735 Speaker 1: an unsafe workplace accusation, and the cancelation of a very 6 00:00:28,935 --> 00:00:32,615 Speaker 1: lucrative contract. But while the country remains on two very 7 00:00:32,615 --> 00:00:35,135 Speaker 1: distinct sides of the Kyle and Jackie O fence, those 8 00:00:35,135 --> 00:00:37,095 Speaker 1: who listen to and love the show and feel they've 9 00:00:37,135 --> 00:00:39,694 Speaker 1: lost a close friend to those who despise it for 10 00:00:39,775 --> 00:00:44,015 Speaker 1: the often vulgar sexist content, there remained an unanswered question 11 00:00:44,654 --> 00:00:48,455 Speaker 1: why now JACKIEO. Has been standing by Kyle Sandlin's side 12 00:00:48,495 --> 00:00:52,894 Speaker 1: for decades, enduring every storm and every roadblock together, but 13 00:00:52,974 --> 00:00:56,455 Speaker 1: not anymore. Today we speak to Craig Bruce, co host 14 00:00:56,455 --> 00:00:59,295 Speaker 1: of The Game Changers radio podcast, former radio exec and 15 00:00:59,375 --> 00:01:02,495 Speaker 1: someone who's known both hosts personally for many years to 16 00:01:02,535 --> 00:01:05,495 Speaker 1: find out exactly what's gone down and why this moment 17 00:01:05,655 --> 00:01:08,255 Speaker 1: in time became the straw that broke the duo's back. 18 00:01:08,815 --> 00:01:11,295 Speaker 1: But first, here's the latest from the Quickie Newsroom. Tuesday, 19 00:01:11,335 --> 00:01:14,855 Speaker 1: March tenth, US President Donald Trump has posted on social 20 00:01:14,895 --> 00:01:18,015 Speaker 1: media that Prime Minister Anthony Albernizi is taking care of 21 00:01:18,015 --> 00:01:21,775 Speaker 1: the Iranian women's soccer team, who are potentially facing persecution 22 00:01:21,975 --> 00:01:25,215 Speaker 1: if they return home after the Asian Cup. Five players 23 00:01:25,255 --> 00:01:27,735 Speaker 1: refused to sing the national anthem ahead of their first 24 00:01:27,735 --> 00:01:30,855 Speaker 1: match earlier this month, leading to them being called traitors 25 00:01:30,895 --> 00:01:34,495 Speaker 1: on Iranian state TV. In their next match against the Matilda's, 26 00:01:34,535 --> 00:01:38,095 Speaker 1: they not only sang the anthem but also saluted during it, 27 00:01:38,135 --> 00:01:40,575 Speaker 1: with some commenters saying they may have been forced to 28 00:01:40,615 --> 00:01:44,015 Speaker 1: do so under duress. Trump posted that Alberonizi had already 29 00:01:44,015 --> 00:01:46,975 Speaker 1: taken care of the five in question, with reports they'd 30 00:01:47,015 --> 00:01:49,695 Speaker 1: been able to leave training camp in Queensland and had 31 00:01:49,735 --> 00:01:52,935 Speaker 1: sought asylum. The exiled Prince of Iran posted that the 32 00:01:52,935 --> 00:01:55,695 Speaker 1: five are currently in a safe location and have announced 33 00:01:55,695 --> 00:01:59,015 Speaker 1: that they've joined Iran's National Line and Sun Revolution, but 34 00:01:59,055 --> 00:02:01,415 Speaker 1: there are still fears for the others, who are possibly 35 00:02:01,495 --> 00:02:04,575 Speaker 1: unable to leave their hotel without their handlers, and who 36 00:02:04,575 --> 00:02:07,415 Speaker 1: feel they must returned to Iran for fear their families 37 00:02:07,455 --> 00:02:10,695 Speaker 1: may be targeted instead. The New South Wales Anti Slavery 38 00:02:10,695 --> 00:02:13,135 Speaker 1: Commissioner is calling on police in the Federal government to 39 00:02:13,215 --> 00:02:16,655 Speaker 1: investigate the matter as modern slavery, saying they're being denied 40 00:02:16,695 --> 00:02:20,695 Speaker 1: freedom of speech and movement, while in Australia, protesters surrounded 41 00:02:20,695 --> 00:02:22,895 Speaker 1: their bus after their final loss on the Gold Coast 42 00:02:22,895 --> 00:02:26,415 Speaker 1: on the weekend, chanting let them go while they run. 43 00:02:26,455 --> 00:02:29,975 Speaker 1: Announced their new leader yesterday. The Israeli administration says he 44 00:02:30,055 --> 00:02:33,135 Speaker 1: will now be their next target. The Iranian regime named 45 00:02:33,175 --> 00:02:36,695 Speaker 1: the late Iatola's son, Mosha bar Hammony, as his father's successor. 46 00:02:36,975 --> 00:02:40,295 Speaker 1: At Channel seven, senior reporter Chris Reason, who's in Tel Aviv, 47 00:02:40,575 --> 00:02:43,535 Speaker 1: says the Israeli government is not sugar coating their next moves. 48 00:02:43,695 --> 00:02:46,095 Speaker 2: I spoke to the deputy Foreign Minister myself, and she 49 00:02:46,175 --> 00:02:48,175 Speaker 2: said to me, as soon as they announce that person, 50 00:02:48,415 --> 00:02:50,495 Speaker 2: we're going to kill them. We're going to assassinate them. 51 00:02:50,575 --> 00:02:53,135 Speaker 2: If it's the son of the Ayatollah, we are going 52 00:02:53,135 --> 00:02:56,215 Speaker 2: to assassinate him. It's quite confronting to actually have a politician, 53 00:02:56,255 --> 00:02:58,255 Speaker 2: a leaders say that to your face. I was quite 54 00:02:58,255 --> 00:03:01,055 Speaker 2: surprised when she said it so bluntly. But even Donald 55 00:03:01,055 --> 00:03:03,895 Speaker 2: Trump himself has said that he wants to have the 56 00:03:03,935 --> 00:03:07,975 Speaker 2: final say on who the next leader of Iran will be. 57 00:03:08,375 --> 00:03:11,535 Speaker 2: The Iranians say he's dreaming that they he will have 58 00:03:11,615 --> 00:03:14,775 Speaker 2: no involvement at all, that they will choose their own Ayatolla. 59 00:03:15,575 --> 00:03:21,215 Speaker 2: But it goes to show the existential problem that whoever 60 00:03:21,295 --> 00:03:25,775 Speaker 2: it is faces, he is in many regards dead man walking. 61 00:03:26,015 --> 00:03:29,175 Speaker 1: Princess Eugenie has stepped down as patron of Anti Slavery 62 00:03:29,255 --> 00:03:33,495 Speaker 1: International amid the ongoing scandal surrounding her father, Andrew Mountbatten Windsor. 63 00:03:33,895 --> 00:03:36,655 Speaker 1: The former prince was arrested at his Sandringham home in 64 00:03:36,735 --> 00:03:41,135 Speaker 1: February on suspicion of misconduct in public office following revelations 65 00:03:41,135 --> 00:03:44,375 Speaker 1: in the Epstein files. His younger daughter now stepping away 66 00:03:44,375 --> 00:03:47,895 Speaker 1: from the world's oldest human rights organization, which thanked the 67 00:03:47,935 --> 00:03:50,615 Speaker 1: princess for her time spent with them and hopes she'll 68 00:03:50,655 --> 00:03:53,495 Speaker 1: continue to work to end slavery for good. There's no 69 00:03:53,535 --> 00:03:56,215 Speaker 1: suggestion of any wrongdoing by the thirty five year old, 70 00:03:56,255 --> 00:03:59,295 Speaker 1: who's yet to comment on her father's arrest. Eugenie, who 71 00:03:59,375 --> 00:04:02,255 Speaker 1: has sons August who's five, and Ernest, who's two, with 72 00:04:02,335 --> 00:04:05,455 Speaker 1: her husband Jack brooks Bank, also works as a director 73 00:04:05,735 --> 00:04:08,695 Speaker 1: of the art gallery Hauser and Worth and co founded 74 00:04:08,775 --> 00:04:12,255 Speaker 1: another anti slavery collective, with her friend Julia de Bonville. 75 00:04:12,295 --> 00:04:16,175 Speaker 1: In twenty seventeen, following Andrew's arrest, it was claimed Usenie 76 00:04:16,175 --> 00:04:19,255 Speaker 1: and her sister, Princess Beatrice, who has Siena who's four 77 00:04:19,295 --> 00:04:23,135 Speaker 1: and thirteen month old Athena with husband Eduardo Mapelimozzi and 78 00:04:23,215 --> 00:04:25,775 Speaker 1: his stepmother to his nine year old son Wolfe, were 79 00:04:25,815 --> 00:04:29,695 Speaker 1: all focusing on protecting their own children. A study has 80 00:04:29,735 --> 00:04:32,495 Speaker 1: found that the transition from primary school to high school 81 00:04:32,615 --> 00:04:35,335 Speaker 1: is the most dangerous time for kids to develop mental 82 00:04:35,335 --> 00:04:38,695 Speaker 1: health issues linked to being online. The review of global 83 00:04:38,695 --> 00:04:41,735 Speaker 1: evidence from more than thirty six thousand young people found 84 00:04:41,815 --> 00:04:45,535 Speaker 1: high use of digital media in childhood was consistently linked 85 00:04:45,535 --> 00:04:49,615 Speaker 1: to depressive symptoms and behavioral problems in later life. Digital 86 00:04:49,615 --> 00:04:52,415 Speaker 1: media is defined as any platform on which users can 87 00:04:52,495 --> 00:04:56,495 Speaker 1: create and consume content, including social media, video games, and 88 00:04:56,535 --> 00:05:00,135 Speaker 1: messaging apps. With social media, the greatest area of concern 89 00:05:00,575 --> 00:05:04,255 Speaker 1: Early adolescence defined US between twelve and fourteen years of age, 90 00:05:04,575 --> 00:05:06,735 Speaker 1: was the age at which ch children were most vulnerable 91 00:05:06,735 --> 00:05:10,094 Speaker 1: to mental health issues brought on by social media. However, 92 00:05:10,215 --> 00:05:13,335 Speaker 1: the study also found not all interactions with digital media 93 00:05:13,375 --> 00:05:16,815 Speaker 1: in adolescents were negative, with some video games associated with 94 00:05:16,895 --> 00:05:21,175 Speaker 1: higher levels of Attention and Executive Function OSSI flagbearer Ben 95 00:05:21,215 --> 00:05:24,335 Speaker 1: Tudhope as scored Australia's first medal of the Winter Paralympics, 96 00:05:24,375 --> 00:05:27,375 Speaker 1: taking silver in the snowboard cross. The medal came not 97 00:05:27,495 --> 00:05:31,054 Speaker 1: long after Tudhope dislocated his shoulder after winning the quarter 98 00:05:31,095 --> 00:05:33,655 Speaker 1: final heat, saying it popped out as he pulled out 99 00:05:33,655 --> 00:05:36,534 Speaker 1: of the starting gate. He described going from one moment 100 00:05:36,615 --> 00:05:39,214 Speaker 1: knowing he's been injured to securing a Paralympic medal in 101 00:05:39,255 --> 00:05:42,895 Speaker 1: Milano Cortina as insane. The twenty six year old adds 102 00:05:42,935 --> 00:05:44,895 Speaker 1: this silver to the bronze medal he won at the 103 00:05:44,975 --> 00:05:49,135 Speaker 1: last Paralympics in Beijing. That's what's happening in the world today. Next, 104 00:05:49,335 --> 00:05:52,735 Speaker 1: Victim or accomplice. The narrative coming from the breakdown of 105 00:05:52,775 --> 00:05:59,654 Speaker 1: the Kyle and Jackie oh Show. Kyle Sandalans and Jackie 106 00:05:59,655 --> 00:06:02,735 Speaker 1: Henderson have been radio partners for nearly thirty years. They 107 00:06:02,735 --> 00:06:06,335 Speaker 1: originally hosted The Hot thirty Countdown Together, which was broadcast 108 00:06:06,375 --> 00:06:09,135 Speaker 1: across the country from mid two thousand. It was on 109 00:06:09,175 --> 00:06:12,575 Speaker 1: that show that they began building a reputation for celebrity gossip, 110 00:06:12,655 --> 00:06:16,055 Speaker 1: prank phone calls and late night risk content. They switched 111 00:06:16,055 --> 00:06:18,775 Speaker 1: to afternoon drive in two thousand and four and rebranded 112 00:06:18,815 --> 00:06:21,335 Speaker 1: as The Kyle and Jackie Oe Show, broadcasting into both 113 00:06:21,375 --> 00:06:24,695 Speaker 1: Sydney and Melbourne. A year later, they stepped into the 114 00:06:24,775 --> 00:06:28,815 Speaker 1: highly sought after market of Sydney Breakfast, quickly establishing themselves 115 00:06:28,895 --> 00:06:30,135 Speaker 1: as a ratings force. 116 00:06:31,015 --> 00:06:34,215 Speaker 3: Fresh This Week with Kyle and Jackie O Tuesday, they 117 00:06:34,255 --> 00:06:37,214 Speaker 3: talked to Cameron dis and Tony Colled Thursday at Snicky 118 00:06:37,295 --> 00:06:40,775 Speaker 3: Hilton and Kimberly Stewart and on Friday, Hoghousewives Coss from 119 00:06:40,855 --> 00:06:44,335 Speaker 3: nicolect Sheridan, Kyl and Jackie O Breakfast with the Stars 120 00:06:44,335 --> 00:06:45,135 Speaker 3: on Today f M. 121 00:06:45,495 --> 00:06:48,335 Speaker 1: But that risky content that worked so well on late 122 00:06:48,415 --> 00:06:52,575 Speaker 1: nights and afternoon shows, while increasingly popular with some, landed 123 00:06:52,575 --> 00:06:55,775 Speaker 1: the pair in hot water on many occasions. During a 124 00:06:55,815 --> 00:06:58,175 Speaker 1: live detective stunt in two thousand and nine, for example, 125 00:06:58,415 --> 00:07:00,615 Speaker 1: a fourteen year old girl revealed live on air that 126 00:07:00,655 --> 00:07:05,135 Speaker 1: she had been sexually assaulted. Sandalans and Henderson apologized, insisting 127 00:07:05,175 --> 00:07:07,015 Speaker 1: they did didn't know and that they didn't do it 128 00:07:07,055 --> 00:07:10,335 Speaker 1: for the shock and potential ratings. They were investigated by 129 00:07:10,375 --> 00:07:13,455 Speaker 1: the Australian Communications and Media Authority and found to have 130 00:07:13,495 --> 00:07:17,215 Speaker 1: breached the commercial radio code. From the late two thousands 131 00:07:17,255 --> 00:07:20,135 Speaker 1: and into the twenty tens, the pair attract an increasing 132 00:07:20,215 --> 00:07:24,455 Speaker 1: number of complaints over vulgar, explicit and offensive content, but 133 00:07:24,535 --> 00:07:27,655 Speaker 1: despite that, they remain one of the most listened to 134 00:07:27,735 --> 00:07:32,015 Speaker 1: shows in the country, attracting a huge volume of advertising revenue. 135 00:07:32,055 --> 00:07:34,735 Speaker 1: In twenty fourteen, they jumped ship from two DAYFM to 136 00:07:34,855 --> 00:07:37,375 Speaker 1: Kiss in Sydney and immediately go to number one with 137 00:07:37,415 --> 00:07:41,375 Speaker 1: their new radio station, But the complaints continue, with critics 138 00:07:41,415 --> 00:07:44,935 Speaker 1: labeling the content misogynistic and vulgar. But no matter the 139 00:07:44,975 --> 00:07:48,255 Speaker 1: sensationalist musings of her co host Jackie O remained a 140 00:07:48,255 --> 00:07:52,815 Speaker 1: supportive partner in crime. From the mid twenty tens to recently, 141 00:07:53,335 --> 00:07:56,735 Speaker 1: activist groups had started to target advertisers of the Kyle 142 00:07:56,775 --> 00:08:00,095 Speaker 1: and Jackie O Show, creating revenue headaches in an industry 143 00:08:00,135 --> 00:08:03,335 Speaker 1: that's already struggling under the weight of podcasts and streaming 144 00:08:03,375 --> 00:08:07,015 Speaker 1: services taking a slice of the money pie. By this 145 00:08:07,055 --> 00:08:09,455 Speaker 1: stage in their more than twenty year partnership, they've racked 146 00:08:09,495 --> 00:08:12,615 Speaker 1: up nearly forty awards and are the highest paid radio 147 00:08:12,695 --> 00:08:16,135 Speaker 1: duo in Australia, signing a contract in November twenty twenty 148 00:08:16,175 --> 00:08:19,895 Speaker 1: three worth two hundred million dollars, the biggest radio talent 149 00:08:19,975 --> 00:08:23,775 Speaker 1: deal in history. They expanded to Melbourne in twenty twenty four, 150 00:08:23,975 --> 00:08:27,815 Speaker 1: but the move proves unsuccessful, with disappointing ratings and reports. 151 00:08:27,815 --> 00:08:30,455 Speaker 1: The Kyle and Jackie O Show now accounts for nearly 152 00:08:30,575 --> 00:08:34,295 Speaker 1: half of all decency complaints made to Australian radio. Then, 153 00:08:34,735 --> 00:08:37,975 Speaker 1: on February twenty Kyle attacks Jackie live on air over 154 00:08:38,015 --> 00:08:40,255 Speaker 1: her work ethic and obsession with astrology. 155 00:08:40,775 --> 00:08:44,934 Speaker 3: Your fixation on this has made Jue it almost unworkable. 156 00:08:45,535 --> 00:08:48,655 Speaker 2: Oh it's not that bad. 157 00:08:48,695 --> 00:08:49,535 Speaker 3: You're not talking. 158 00:08:49,655 --> 00:08:51,655 Speaker 1: I'm talking to that like that's not fair. 159 00:08:51,935 --> 00:08:53,855 Speaker 2: You're off with the fairies with you'll me. 160 00:08:53,895 --> 00:08:56,095 Speaker 1: Whare no, no, no, tell me where I've been off 161 00:08:56,095 --> 00:08:57,135 Speaker 1: with the fairies during the show. 162 00:08:57,135 --> 00:08:58,015 Speaker 3: I don't have to have. 163 00:08:58,375 --> 00:09:02,855 Speaker 1: Jackie left the building and take some time off. Online 164 00:09:02,895 --> 00:09:06,375 Speaker 1: conversations vary from hoping Jackie O's okay to calling her 165 00:09:06,415 --> 00:09:09,335 Speaker 1: out for becoming herself the victim of the behavior she 166 00:09:09,415 --> 00:09:13,415 Speaker 1: had enabled for decades. A few days later, AARN, the 167 00:09:13,455 --> 00:09:17,615 Speaker 1: company that owns Kiss, releases a statement saying AARN Media 168 00:09:17,655 --> 00:09:20,855 Speaker 1: Limited announces that Miss Jaqueline Henderson has given notice that 169 00:09:20,935 --> 00:09:24,575 Speaker 1: she cannot continue to work with mister Kyl Sandalan's. They 170 00:09:24,655 --> 00:09:26,935 Speaker 1: say she's leaving the show and that they'd offered her 171 00:09:26,935 --> 00:09:28,975 Speaker 1: a new one should she want to make the change. 172 00:09:29,135 --> 00:09:31,895 Speaker 1: They go on to say AARN has also provided written 173 00:09:31,935 --> 00:09:34,935 Speaker 1: notice to mister Kyl Sandalin's stating that it considers that 174 00:09:34,935 --> 00:09:37,855 Speaker 1: mister Sandalan's behavior during the show on twenty February twenty 175 00:09:37,855 --> 00:09:40,855 Speaker 1: twenty six is an act of serious misconduct which is 176 00:09:40,855 --> 00:09:44,095 Speaker 1: in breach of Aarn's services agreement. They tell him to 177 00:09:44,135 --> 00:09:45,934 Speaker 1: remedy the breach as they announce he'll be off the 178 00:09:46,015 --> 00:09:48,295 Speaker 1: air for at least fourteen days that the Breakfast Show 179 00:09:48,335 --> 00:09:51,934 Speaker 1: is off air effective immediately. The show's listeners are shocked. 180 00:09:52,375 --> 00:09:54,135 Speaker 1: Is this the end of the show that's been keeping 181 00:09:54,175 --> 00:09:57,415 Speaker 1: them company for every commute since they can remember? But 182 00:09:57,535 --> 00:10:01,295 Speaker 1: Jackie Henderson disputes arn's version of events, saying she didn't 183 00:10:01,375 --> 00:10:03,855 Speaker 1: quit or resign and that the announcement had taken her 184 00:10:03,895 --> 00:10:08,694 Speaker 1: by surprise. So could this relationship have been saved or 185 00:10:08,735 --> 00:10:10,655 Speaker 1: was this fight one in a long line of on 186 00:10:10,735 --> 00:10:13,495 Speaker 1: air spats? A pair of injured together in the loophole 187 00:10:13,535 --> 00:10:16,215 Speaker 1: a company was waiting for to use to tear up 188 00:10:16,255 --> 00:10:19,935 Speaker 1: a very expensive contract. Craig Bruce is the co host 189 00:10:19,975 --> 00:10:22,334 Speaker 1: of The Game Changes Radio podcast, I show that breaks 190 00:10:22,335 --> 00:10:25,255 Speaker 1: down the biggest moments of the radio industry. Craig, I 191 00:10:25,295 --> 00:10:27,135 Speaker 1: think the first question we need to ask, and one 192 00:10:27,135 --> 00:10:29,535 Speaker 1: that our audience has speculated on a fair bit, is 193 00:10:29,655 --> 00:10:33,775 Speaker 1: this all orchestrated? Are we being pranked right now? Yeah? 194 00:10:33,935 --> 00:10:36,895 Speaker 4: Zero chance. For those that know the show, they don't 195 00:10:36,975 --> 00:10:39,695 Speaker 4: prep anything. Everything is on the fly. That's one of 196 00:10:39,695 --> 00:10:41,895 Speaker 4: the reasons why the show is so unique is because 197 00:10:41,935 --> 00:10:45,295 Speaker 4: they're just in the moment. So Kyle certainly doesn't have 198 00:10:45,335 --> 00:10:49,975 Speaker 4: the energy or the inclination to do this kind of thing. 199 00:10:50,375 --> 00:10:52,735 Speaker 4: I started working with them in two thousand and four 200 00:10:52,895 --> 00:10:54,975 Speaker 4: or five when they were at today fem and put 201 00:10:55,015 --> 00:10:56,495 Speaker 4: them into Breakfast and one of the first things that 202 00:10:56,535 --> 00:10:58,655 Speaker 4: they did that they got noticed for was Kyle brought 203 00:10:58,655 --> 00:11:01,295 Speaker 4: in a prostitute into the studio, someone that he had 204 00:11:01,295 --> 00:11:05,215 Speaker 4: met that morning and they're talking about prostitution or whatever. 205 00:11:05,335 --> 00:11:07,015 Speaker 4: And what they asked me to do, I was their 206 00:11:07,054 --> 00:11:09,655 Speaker 4: content director was to come in halfway through and pull 207 00:11:09,695 --> 00:11:11,815 Speaker 4: the prostitute off the air, and then there was going 208 00:11:11,855 --> 00:11:14,015 Speaker 4: to be this back and forth and whatever, and so 209 00:11:14,135 --> 00:11:17,934 Speaker 4: that was orchestrated, but this is not This is an 210 00:11:18,054 --> 00:11:21,655 Speaker 4: argument or a discussion that should have happened off the air. 211 00:11:22,495 --> 00:11:26,574 Speaker 4: And I spoke to Kyle after it had happened a 212 00:11:26,575 --> 00:11:28,454 Speaker 4: few days after, and he just said it was one 213 00:11:28,495 --> 00:11:31,175 Speaker 4: of those things where the mics are on, we're just 214 00:11:31,175 --> 00:11:34,495 Speaker 4: getting ourselves into this really difficult situation. And I just 215 00:11:34,575 --> 00:11:38,255 Speaker 4: kept digging Kyle's natural state, I think, when it's fight 216 00:11:38,375 --> 00:11:40,575 Speaker 4: or flight, as always to fight, and he just kept 217 00:11:40,615 --> 00:11:43,455 Speaker 4: digging and made it worse. And Jackie, I think, was 218 00:11:43,535 --> 00:11:45,495 Speaker 4: at a point in her life where she doesn't want 219 00:11:45,535 --> 00:11:48,895 Speaker 4: the drama anymore. So, no, this is not a stunt. 220 00:11:49,415 --> 00:11:51,895 Speaker 1: I've also seen this described as like death by a 221 00:11:51,975 --> 00:11:55,375 Speaker 1: thousand cuts for Jackie because there's a lot of narrative 222 00:11:55,415 --> 00:11:57,975 Speaker 1: about he said worse to her before, like why is 223 00:11:58,015 --> 00:12:01,215 Speaker 1: this the thing that has broken the camel's back. She's 224 00:12:01,375 --> 00:12:05,455 Speaker 1: been standing by Kyle sandal In's side for nearly three 225 00:12:05,495 --> 00:12:09,575 Speaker 1: thirty years now, and so for her, has this become 226 00:12:09,615 --> 00:12:13,695 Speaker 1: a culmination of just enough is enough? Or as you said, 227 00:12:13,895 --> 00:12:16,375 Speaker 1: she's in a different space now than she has been 228 00:12:16,375 --> 00:12:19,495 Speaker 1: in previous decades. Is this a launch of new Jackie 229 00:12:19,895 --> 00:12:22,135 Speaker 1: in her new era away from Kyle. 230 00:12:22,415 --> 00:12:24,655 Speaker 4: Yeah, it's all speculation, isn't it, Because I mean, I 231 00:12:24,655 --> 00:12:27,135 Speaker 4: haven't spoken to her, so I don't know what's in 232 00:12:27,175 --> 00:12:30,375 Speaker 4: her mind, but I feel like, and again from my 233 00:12:30,415 --> 00:12:33,815 Speaker 4: own experience working with them in the OG moments of 234 00:12:34,175 --> 00:12:37,695 Speaker 4: five through to twenty thirteen, they were so tight. There 235 00:12:37,775 --> 00:12:40,175 Speaker 4: was not even daylight between the two of them in 236 00:12:40,255 --> 00:12:42,655 Speaker 4: terms of how they talked about radio, how they thought 237 00:12:42,695 --> 00:12:45,815 Speaker 4: about the show, the sorts of content that they wanted 238 00:12:45,895 --> 00:12:48,934 Speaker 4: to do, the way they cared for each other. Most 239 00:12:48,975 --> 00:12:51,495 Speaker 4: of their planning meetings would happen at each other's homes. 240 00:12:51,895 --> 00:12:54,775 Speaker 4: He made her laugh, They finished each other sentence. Yes, 241 00:12:54,815 --> 00:12:57,055 Speaker 4: it sounds like a love story. And as a content director, 242 00:12:57,095 --> 00:13:00,735 Speaker 4: having seen so many dysfunctional shows up until that point, 243 00:13:00,935 --> 00:13:03,455 Speaker 4: the thing that I noticed most about Colin Jackie was 244 00:13:03,655 --> 00:13:07,895 Speaker 4: their relationship and how tested they were in each other, 245 00:13:08,175 --> 00:13:12,655 Speaker 4: and how they understood that they needed each other, and 246 00:13:12,695 --> 00:13:15,015 Speaker 4: so all of the rapport and the chemistry that we 247 00:13:15,054 --> 00:13:19,455 Speaker 4: would hear on the air that came from multiple conversations 248 00:13:19,495 --> 00:13:22,095 Speaker 4: and time spent together off the air, and one fed 249 00:13:22,135 --> 00:13:25,135 Speaker 4: the other. And I think what has happened is that 250 00:13:25,175 --> 00:13:29,095 Speaker 4: they have just drifted as they've gotten older and their 251 00:13:29,455 --> 00:13:32,535 Speaker 4: life circumstances have changed and the things that are interesting 252 00:13:32,615 --> 00:13:35,295 Speaker 4: for them have changed. And we had a message from 253 00:13:35,295 --> 00:13:37,855 Speaker 4: a listener a really good point the Best Things podcast 254 00:13:37,895 --> 00:13:40,695 Speaker 4: that Jackie did with Jemma, where she's talking about psychology 255 00:13:40,735 --> 00:13:43,455 Speaker 4: and relationships and astrology and these sorts of things. She 256 00:13:43,655 --> 00:13:46,255 Speaker 4: was doing that as an outlet because she couldn't talk 257 00:13:46,295 --> 00:13:48,935 Speaker 4: about those things on the show anymore because he wasn't 258 00:13:48,935 --> 00:13:51,975 Speaker 4: interested in them. So I don't think there's any question. 259 00:13:52,255 --> 00:13:54,935 Speaker 4: All of the feedback that I had from people that 260 00:13:54,935 --> 00:13:56,975 Speaker 4: have worked around the show over the last few years 261 00:13:57,095 --> 00:13:59,575 Speaker 4: is that they were two very different people. I heard 262 00:13:59,615 --> 00:14:02,895 Speaker 4: that often they don't talk as much during the songs. 263 00:14:03,415 --> 00:14:05,535 Speaker 4: So one of the things for radio is that you 264 00:14:05,575 --> 00:14:07,454 Speaker 4: would know clear you've been in a radio studio. It's 265 00:14:07,455 --> 00:14:10,055 Speaker 4: the rapport and the dynamic in and around the room 266 00:14:10,095 --> 00:14:12,775 Speaker 4: that often is the thing that audiences noticed, and that 267 00:14:12,895 --> 00:14:14,255 Speaker 4: was certainly true for Kyle and JACKIEO. 268 00:14:14,855 --> 00:14:17,895 Speaker 1: Can we address the contract. Kyle and JACKIEO assigned that 269 00:14:18,335 --> 00:14:21,295 Speaker 1: massive ten year deal. It's worth two hundred million dollars, 270 00:14:21,375 --> 00:14:23,815 Speaker 1: and at the same time, over the years after that, 271 00:14:24,055 --> 00:14:26,695 Speaker 1: people start getting laid off across radio, left, right and center. 272 00:14:27,015 --> 00:14:28,935 Speaker 1: Hundreds and hundreds of people have lost their jobs in 273 00:14:28,935 --> 00:14:31,455 Speaker 1: the industry in the last few years. It felt like 274 00:14:32,015 --> 00:14:35,615 Speaker 1: a gross end of two of the scale and the 275 00:14:35,655 --> 00:14:38,655 Speaker 1: weight unfolded with Jackie walking off and then ar in 276 00:14:38,735 --> 00:14:41,055 Speaker 1: the parent company of Kiss coming out and saying that 277 00:14:41,135 --> 00:14:43,255 Speaker 1: she has said she can't work with Kyle anymore, and 278 00:14:43,255 --> 00:14:46,535 Speaker 1: they're effectively ending this contract and ending their partnership, and 279 00:14:46,575 --> 00:14:48,575 Speaker 1: then Jackie coming back and saying, hang on a minute, 280 00:14:48,655 --> 00:14:51,335 Speaker 1: I didn't actually say that. I never said that I quit. 281 00:14:52,175 --> 00:14:54,135 Speaker 1: Is there more at play here? Is there a bigger 282 00:14:54,175 --> 00:14:57,135 Speaker 1: picture where it concerns money, Like are they earning their 283 00:14:57,175 --> 00:15:01,175 Speaker 1: salary right now with advertising revenue? Is there a bigger 284 00:15:01,215 --> 00:15:04,175 Speaker 1: picture to this than just Kyle and JACKIEO having a fight. 285 00:15:04,495 --> 00:15:07,175 Speaker 4: Oh, to be honest, clear, this is all about money, 286 00:15:07,375 --> 00:15:10,575 Speaker 4: and the business model of Kylin JACKIEO has been broken 287 00:15:10,735 --> 00:15:14,055 Speaker 4: for two years for many reasons. The amount of money 288 00:15:14,255 --> 00:15:16,935 Speaker 4: they're earning and the amount of money they're returning to 289 00:15:17,015 --> 00:15:20,335 Speaker 4: the business in revenue just doesn't add up anymore. They're 290 00:15:20,335 --> 00:15:23,975 Speaker 4: spending around forty percent of their operating costs on one 291 00:15:24,055 --> 00:15:27,495 Speaker 4: single show. That's not sustainable. And you and I both 292 00:15:27,575 --> 00:15:30,735 Speaker 4: know how media is evolving and moving so quickly they 293 00:15:30,815 --> 00:15:34,695 Speaker 4: might be able to afford them now, just there is 294 00:15:34,695 --> 00:15:38,095 Speaker 4: no world where a radio show will be worth twenty 295 00:15:38,095 --> 00:15:40,455 Speaker 4: million dollars for the hosts in ten years from now, 296 00:15:40,535 --> 00:15:42,655 Speaker 4: that's not going to be a thing. That's not to 297 00:15:42,695 --> 00:15:44,855 Speaker 4: say that radio won't exists, but the idea that there 298 00:15:44,895 --> 00:15:48,495 Speaker 4: will be that much revenue sloshing around to pay for 299 00:15:48,895 --> 00:15:52,615 Speaker 4: two people two people is madness. I understand how it 300 00:15:52,655 --> 00:15:56,935 Speaker 4: happened because the company that compete with Kylin JACKIEO, Southern 301 00:15:56,975 --> 00:16:00,975 Speaker 4: Cross Ostereo, they had nothing to lose. So what happened Essentially, 302 00:16:00,975 --> 00:16:02,855 Speaker 4: it's a house that was being bid on by two 303 00:16:02,855 --> 00:16:05,855 Speaker 4: different people, right, and that's where the price gets up. 304 00:16:06,095 --> 00:16:08,015 Speaker 4: And SAA have looked at it and thought, okay, well 305 00:16:08,015 --> 00:16:09,935 Speaker 4: we've had years without Kyle and Jackie O and it's 306 00:16:10,055 --> 00:16:13,695 Speaker 4: darkness and despair. So we will pay any money to 307 00:16:13,735 --> 00:16:17,255 Speaker 4: get them back. And if the worst case scenario is 308 00:16:17,295 --> 00:16:20,095 Speaker 4: that we make ARN pay too much money, job done. 309 00:16:20,255 --> 00:16:21,615 Speaker 4: The way I look at it now is that that 310 00:16:21,655 --> 00:16:24,815 Speaker 4: two hundred million dollars I think in the minds of 311 00:16:24,935 --> 00:16:28,255 Speaker 4: Kyle and Jackie that was for services rendered, not for 312 00:16:28,375 --> 00:16:32,335 Speaker 4: services expected from them. They did not have the energy 313 00:16:33,055 --> 00:16:38,055 Speaker 4: or the enthusiasm or the excitement or the determination to 314 00:16:38,175 --> 00:16:41,015 Speaker 4: take that money and make the show better. They just 315 00:16:41,055 --> 00:16:43,735 Speaker 4: weren't in that headspace. I mean, the evidence is in 316 00:16:43,895 --> 00:16:46,575 Speaker 4: the on air output. It just wasn't the show that 317 00:16:46,615 --> 00:16:47,415 Speaker 4: it once was. 318 00:16:47,975 --> 00:16:50,855 Speaker 1: Can they be successful without each other? Craig, I mean, 319 00:16:50,895 --> 00:16:54,975 Speaker 1: we've seen aarn offer Jackie a potential show of her own, 320 00:16:55,095 --> 00:16:58,615 Speaker 1: and maybe the success of her podcasting aside with Jemma 321 00:16:59,135 --> 00:17:01,695 Speaker 1: might play into that where they can explore those things 322 00:17:01,775 --> 00:17:04,415 Speaker 1: that she's interested in now. But can she be successful 323 00:17:04,455 --> 00:17:06,695 Speaker 1: that Kyle? Can Kyle be successful without Jackie? 324 00:17:06,935 --> 00:17:09,575 Speaker 4: It depends on how you define success. Can Jackie get 325 00:17:09,574 --> 00:17:12,654 Speaker 4: a really good deal with a media business at some 326 00:17:12,655 --> 00:17:15,254 Speaker 4: point down the track, whether it's podcasting or radio and 327 00:17:15,334 --> 00:17:17,774 Speaker 4: earn lots of money. If that is success for Jackie, 328 00:17:17,774 --> 00:17:20,134 Speaker 4: then that will happen for her. They will never have 329 00:17:20,574 --> 00:17:23,895 Speaker 4: the audience that they have now given up on their own. 330 00:17:24,054 --> 00:17:25,695 Speaker 4: Because this is the thing that I found talking to 331 00:17:25,774 --> 00:17:28,494 Speaker 4: Kylin jack listeners. There's a real divide, and it's agenda divide, 332 00:17:28,574 --> 00:17:31,494 Speaker 4: unfortunately clear. It's the sort of the story as old 333 00:17:31,534 --> 00:17:34,855 Speaker 4: as time itself. The guys think that Jackie has been 334 00:17:34,895 --> 00:17:37,494 Speaker 4: writing on his coattails for years. Just go and find 335 00:17:37,534 --> 00:17:40,374 Speaker 4: another female co host, can't be that hard, and women 336 00:17:40,494 --> 00:17:44,094 Speaker 4: are feeling hurt that Jackie has been put through this 337 00:17:44,135 --> 00:17:46,655 Speaker 4: situation over such a long period of time. So the audience, 338 00:17:46,655 --> 00:17:50,534 Speaker 4: the Kylin Jackie O audience will fracture into one thousand 339 00:17:50,574 --> 00:17:53,935 Speaker 4: tiny shards of glass and I don't know where they're 340 00:17:53,935 --> 00:17:56,734 Speaker 4: going to land. But if Jackie comes back to the radio, 341 00:17:56,814 --> 00:17:59,254 Speaker 4: and if Kyle does, they won't have the audiences that 342 00:17:59,294 --> 00:18:01,294 Speaker 4: the Kyl and Jackie O brand had. 343 00:18:01,415 --> 00:18:05,774 Speaker 1: Speaking of the narrative around Jackie, she's been like with 344 00:18:05,774 --> 00:18:08,055 Speaker 1: this one that she's either the victim or the collaborator, 345 00:18:08,334 --> 00:18:11,494 Speaker 1: and that there's so many think pieces now about being 346 00:18:11,534 --> 00:18:14,014 Speaker 1: happy for her for finally kind of saying enough is enough, 347 00:18:14,014 --> 00:18:16,614 Speaker 1: with another saying she's been the accomplice in this for 348 00:18:16,655 --> 00:18:18,254 Speaker 1: so many years it was only a matter of time 349 00:18:18,294 --> 00:18:21,534 Speaker 1: before she too becomes the victim. What's the narrative around 350 00:18:21,614 --> 00:18:24,615 Speaker 1: Kyle right now? Because he's known for saying shitty things 351 00:18:24,614 --> 00:18:28,814 Speaker 1: to people in his time, he's apologized, which he's done 352 00:18:28,854 --> 00:18:32,054 Speaker 1: before and then kind of moved on. But why is 353 00:18:32,054 --> 00:18:35,934 Speaker 1: the narrative around her so much nastier than it is 354 00:18:35,975 --> 00:18:37,014 Speaker 1: around him right now? 355 00:18:37,455 --> 00:18:40,575 Speaker 4: I don't feel like I'm really qualified to answer that 356 00:18:40,814 --> 00:18:43,935 Speaker 4: there's a gender factor that needs to be I haven't 357 00:18:43,975 --> 00:18:47,375 Speaker 4: lived in her situation. I've got close to the show obviously, 358 00:18:47,494 --> 00:18:49,854 Speaker 4: And if I could answer you a question about the 359 00:18:49,935 --> 00:18:54,774 Speaker 4: idea of collaborating and sitting idly by, I mean I 360 00:18:54,935 --> 00:18:56,854 Speaker 4: was the content director for a year with him in 361 00:18:56,895 --> 00:18:59,734 Speaker 4: their first year, and then was in network and heads 362 00:18:59,734 --> 00:19:02,294 Speaker 4: of content roles over the next seven or eight years. 363 00:19:02,294 --> 00:19:05,094 Speaker 4: So I collaborated with kylein Jackie O. Was I proud 364 00:19:05,094 --> 00:19:07,054 Speaker 4: of that every day of my working life? 365 00:19:07,135 --> 00:19:07,254 Speaker 1: Now? 366 00:19:07,574 --> 00:19:10,254 Speaker 4: Were there days where I was shameful to be associated 367 00:19:10,294 --> 00:19:10,695 Speaker 4: with the show? 368 00:19:10,734 --> 00:19:11,254 Speaker 2: Absolutely? 369 00:19:11,854 --> 00:19:15,294 Speaker 4: How much responsibility should I have taken through that process? 370 00:19:15,695 --> 00:19:18,455 Speaker 4: I've reflected on it. But the end of the day, 371 00:19:18,494 --> 00:19:21,334 Speaker 4: the microphone goes on, and what comes out of Kyle 372 00:19:21,494 --> 00:19:25,455 Speaker 4: and Jackie's mouths for them to decide. And I think 373 00:19:25,574 --> 00:19:28,975 Speaker 4: for Jackie twenty six years in a small room with 374 00:19:29,054 --> 00:19:31,774 Speaker 4: someone like Carl sand Lance, for all of his good 375 00:19:31,814 --> 00:19:34,615 Speaker 4: and bad qualities, maybe she just run out. 376 00:19:34,534 --> 00:19:38,975 Speaker 1: Of steam overnight. The Daily Telegraph has reported that sources 377 00:19:38,975 --> 00:19:41,734 Speaker 1: have informed them that Kyle and Jackie O are back 378 00:19:41,814 --> 00:19:44,334 Speaker 1: talking to each other and want to do radio again. 379 00:19:44,814 --> 00:19:47,775 Speaker 1: Whether that can actually happen in the show's current format 380 00:19:47,935 --> 00:19:51,334 Speaker 1: on their current radio station remains to be seen watch 381 00:19:51,375 --> 00:19:53,654 Speaker 1: this space. Thanks for taking the time to feed your 382 00:19:53,655 --> 00:19:55,654 Speaker 1: mind with us today. The Quickie is produced by me 383 00:19:55,774 --> 00:19:58,814 Speaker 1: Claire Murphy and Taylor Strano. Our Group executive producer is 384 00:19:58,854 --> 00:20:04,935 Speaker 1: Georgie Page, with audio production by Lou Hill MoMA MEA 385 00:20:04,975 --> 00:20:07,054 Speaker 1: acknowledge you. It is the traditional owners of land and 386 00:20:07,135 --> 00:20:09,254 Speaker 1: waters that this podcast is recorded on.