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Speaker 1: You're listening to Amma Mia podcast, some very old ideas

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Speaker 1: about women are having a comeback.

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Speaker 2: I don't know, she brings like this dominance since the

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Speaker 2: relationship and I want to be the one.

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Speaker 3: Essentially, Corn the shots online.

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Speaker 1: The manisphere is booming, Louis Theroux's new documentary puts it

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Speaker 1: under the microscope, and reality TV shows like Married at

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Speaker 1: First Sight putting some of these attitudes right into prime time.

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Speaker 1: So where is this coming from and how do we

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Speaker 1: actually fix it? It's the Quickie for Wednesday, March eleven.

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Speaker 1: I'm Taylor Strano for a look at the latest news headlines.

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Speaker 1: Here is Clare Murphy.

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Speaker 4: Thanks Taylor. Radio host Kyle Sanderlins has issued his first

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Speaker 4: public statement since being suspended due to an on air

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Speaker 4: relationship breakdown with his co host Jackie Henderson. After accusing

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Speaker 4: Henderson of being unprofessional and off with the fairies due

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Speaker 4: to her obsession with astrology live on air, she walked

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Speaker 4: down on the show and took time off. The radio

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Speaker 4: station's parent company, ARN released a statement just days after,

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Speaker 4: saying Henderson now refused to work with Sandalan's and so

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Speaker 4: they were ending the pairs ten year, two hundred million

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Speaker 4: dollar contract, citing a breach by Sandalans. Sandalans released a

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Speaker 4: statement through his manager yesterday saying of the on air spat,

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Speaker 4: I wish I'd phrase things differently. He went on to

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Speaker 4: say the night of the incident, he sent Jackie a

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Speaker 4: message telling her that he loves and cares for her

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Speaker 4: and that he meant every word. He claimed the idea

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Speaker 4: that their partnership could end like this is devastating, and

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Speaker 4: that he had been told he was not allowed to

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Speaker 4: contact Henderson or speak to any of his radio station colleagues.

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Speaker 4: He said, the truth is that ARN terminated Jackie's contract

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Speaker 4: on the same date accused me of a breach. All

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Speaker 4: of this happened while I was being told to sit

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Speaker 4: quietly and say nothing. That is not a genuine process.

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Speaker 4: He called on Arn to do the right thing, saying

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Speaker 4: he's asking for him to be allowed to do what

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Speaker 4: he does best, entertaining the people who've supported the show

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Speaker 4: for more than two decades. The Nationals will hold a

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Speaker 4: leadership ballot following yesterday's snap resis ssignation of David Little Proud.

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Speaker 4: Mister little Proud will remain in Parliament representing his Queensland

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Speaker 4: seat of Marinoa. After announcing he was stepping down at

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Speaker 4: an emotional press conference alongside his wife Amelia.

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Speaker 5: I'm bargain I'll have enough to lead this great party.

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Speaker 5: Would be the wrong thing for me to do. I

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Speaker 5: love the National Party. I grew up in it. I'll

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Speaker 5: beled till the day I die Green and Gold. I

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Speaker 5: love it, and it'd be wrong for me to say

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Speaker 5: that I'm the right person to continue to lead. That's

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Speaker 5: tough for me to say. I think someone better can

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Speaker 5: do it because I don't have the energy.

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Speaker 4: Outspoken Queensland Senator Matt Canavan became the first to confirm

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Speaker 4: he was putting his hand up for the job. Deputy

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Speaker 4: Leader Kevin Hogan, the party's leader in the Senate, Bridget mackenzie,

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Speaker 4: and former leader Michael McCormack are other potential contenders. A

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Speaker 4: formal vote to elect the new leader will be held

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Speaker 4: this morning in Canberra. Residents in the central Queensland hub

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Speaker 4: of Bunderberg have been told to leave immediately as a

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Speaker 4: brace for major flooding. Locals scramble to leave before the

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Speaker 4: community's two major bridges were due to close yesterday afternoon,

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Speaker 4: amid fears homes might be isolated for days. Queensland Premier

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Speaker 4: David chris A Fully said more than four hundred homes

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Speaker 4: and businesses were now under threat. The Burnett River threatened

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Speaker 4: to peak at seven point six meters, just slightly below

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Speaker 4: the seven point nine two meter levels of sixteen years ago,

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Speaker 4: when homes and businesses were inundated and hundreds of people

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Speaker 4: were forced to leave the city of more than seventy

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Speaker 4: thousand people. The flood prone town of Gimpi and surrounding

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Speaker 4: communities is also at risk, with a major warning current

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Speaker 4: for the Mery River as water moves downstream. Flooding has

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Speaker 4: also hit the Northern territory hard. The federal and anti

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Speaker 4: governments have announced further disaster assistance funding for Catherine, where

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Speaker 4: overnight rain boosted floodwaters that forced seven hundred people to

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Speaker 4: seek shelter. In Darwin, residents have been asked to reduce

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Speaker 4: water use and boiled drinking water as authorities repair at

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Speaker 4: Darwin River Dam pump station that was shut down by

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Speaker 4: the floods. There are reports that one or two more

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Speaker 4: members of the Iranian women's soccer team did not board

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Speaker 4: the plane from the Gold Coast to set Sidney yesterday

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Speaker 4: as they prepared to return home. There are grave fears

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Speaker 4: for the safety of the departing players after five of

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Speaker 4: their teammates were granted asylum in Australia. The five branded

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Speaker 4: wartime traders on Iranian state television for refusing to sing

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Speaker 4: the national anthem ahead of their first Asian Cup game.

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Speaker 4: The rest of the team departed Australia last night amid

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Speaker 4: fears for their safety, facing threats of their families being

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Speaker 4: taken into custody and their assets seized. They had earlier

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Speaker 4: left a Gold Coast hotel under police guard, with one

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Speaker 4: player appearing to be dragged by a teammate onto the bus.

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Speaker 4: Protesters had tried to block the bus from leaving for

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Speaker 4: the airport. Meanwhile, in Iran, the US has promised that

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Speaker 4: it will be the most intense day of strikes. As

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Speaker 4: the country's Revolutionary Guard threatens to block all oil shipments

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Speaker 4: from the Gulf, the Pentagon renewed threats to hit Iran

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Speaker 4: harder and less shipments can flow through the strait of

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Speaker 4: Humu's off Iran's coast. US Defense Secretary Pete Hegsith telling

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Speaker 4: a Pentagon briefing today will be yet again our most

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Speaker 4: intense day of strikes. Inside Era the most fighters, the

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Speaker 4: most bombers, the most strikes, intelligence, more refined, and better

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Speaker 4: than ever. The war has already effectively halted shipments through

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Speaker 4: the Strait, where a fifth of global oil and liquefied

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Speaker 4: natural gas normally passes. Middle East oil producers say they've

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Speaker 4: run out of storage and have now stopped pumping.

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Speaker 1: Thanks clerk Next. No longer a niche corner of the Internet,

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Speaker 1: the manusphere has widespread appeal. So what are we going

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Speaker 1: to do about it? Maybe you've felt it up close

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Speaker 1: a date who jokes about wanting an old school wife,

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Speaker 1: a male teenage relative who suddenly has strong views about

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Speaker 1: submissive women, or a classroom where girls are being told

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Speaker 1: they're too masculine for speaking up. It can feel like

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Speaker 1: these attitudes come out of nowhere. The manusphere is the

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Speaker 1: loose network of online spaces think podcasts, TikTok, reddit threads,

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Speaker 1: discord servers where men talk to other men about how

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Speaker 1: the world really works. Sometimes it's fitness and self help,

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Speaker 1: but a big chunk of it pushes a very specific

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Speaker 1: story that men are the real victims of modern feminism,

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Speaker 1: that women should be obedient and a real man is rich,

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Speaker 1: ripped and in charge. It's where Andrew Tatestyle talking points

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Speaker 1: get endlessly repackaged and served up by algorithms to boys

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Speaker 1: who are bored, lonely or angry. New research out of

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Speaker 1: the King's College, London has put numbers to what parents

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Speaker 1: and teachers are hearing. In a global survey of twenty

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Speaker 1: three thousand people, thirty one percent of gen z men

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Speaker 1: said a wife should always obey her husband, and a

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Speaker 1: third set a husband should have the final word on

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Speaker 1: important decisions at home. Now, if you're thinking you've heard

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Speaker 1: that obedient sentiment lately, well you'd be right. This season

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Speaker 1: of the uber popular reality tele show Maths has put

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Speaker 1: the concept front and center in contestant Tyson, do you.

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Speaker 4: Want someone who is obedient? Yes, it's controlling and you

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Speaker 4: want a dog?

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Speaker 3: Okay, Well then there you go. Maybe that's what I want.

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Speaker 1: Comments like this have made it all the way to Canberra.

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Speaker 1: Social Services Minister Tania Plibersik has accused the show and

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Speaker 1: its network of normalizing coercive control by airing this kind

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Speaker 1: of language, saying it's supercharged by algorithms peddling misogyny for profit.

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Speaker 2: This is exactly the sort of controlling behavior that we're

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Speaker 2: trying to combat when we talk about getting rid of

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Speaker 2: coercive control. The fact that this is being mainstreamed and

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Speaker 2: a really popular show is really disappointing. I really do

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Speaker 2: think the makers of this show need to think twice

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Speaker 2: before platforming this sort of misogyny.

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Speaker 1: And now documentary filmmaker Luis Tharu is diving straight into

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Speaker 1: this world. His new Netflix film Inside the Mana Sphere

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Speaker 1: lands this week and follows him through Miami, New York,

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Speaker 1: and Mabella, sitting down with some of the biggest Red

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Speaker 1: Pill influencers to ask why their mix of traditional gender roles,

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Speaker 1: outright misogyny, and get rich content is so appealing to

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Speaker 1: teenage boys.

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Speaker 3: What would you say?

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Speaker 2: Is the message?

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Speaker 1: I coach boys?

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Speaker 3: How to make money? Oh, this is a nice spot.

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Speaker 5: How to be outside the system, how to be proper guys?

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Speaker 3: Would you see me?

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Speaker 5: Don't we?

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Speaker 3: Did you look at my arms? The statue is not

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Speaker 3: saying too much.

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Speaker 1: Through has called this project the ultimate challenge after decades

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Speaker 1: of documentary filmmaking, precisely because so much of it lives

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Speaker 1: in private group chats and algorithms that most of us

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Speaker 1: hopefully don't see. And he's right. The hard part is

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Speaker 1: that none of this is just out there online anymore.

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Speaker 1: Teachers say, boys are repeating these lines in class, girls

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Speaker 1: are finding themselves on dates with guys who talk about

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Speaker 1: submissive women, and parents are trying to compete with hours

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Speaker 1: of TikTok and YouTube a day. Experts point to a

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Speaker 1: gap between what most people personally believe, which is slowly

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Speaker 1: getting more equal, and what young men think everyone expects

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Speaker 1: of them. That gap is where the manner sphere moves in,

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Speaker 1: offering clear villains and easy answers to real feelings of confusion,

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Speaker 1: loneliness or loss of status. So how exactly do we

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Speaker 1: fix it, or at least stop it from getting worse?

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Speaker 1: Does the under sixteen social media ban help curb the

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Speaker 1: rise of this retric Australia's just added age verification on

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Speaker 1: sites like porn Hub.

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Speaker 3: Surely that'll go away.

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Speaker 1: To help too, right, But what else needs to happen

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Speaker 1: in classrooms, at home, in workplaces. Paige Campbell is the

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Speaker 1: co founder and CEO of tomorrow Man. She spends her

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Speaker 1: days in rooms with boys and men talking about healthier

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Speaker 1: versions of being a bloke page. I want to start

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Speaker 1: with getting your explanation, what does and doesn't fall into

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Speaker 1: the manusphere.

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Speaker 6: It's an umbrella term to describe a collection of platforms

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Speaker 6: that are promoting misogynistic and anti feminist belief I think

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Speaker 6: the scary thing about the manispee content is that there's

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Speaker 6: you know, what they call gateway manisphere content.

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Speaker 3: The outset.

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Speaker 6: It can look quite positive, so it might be fitness

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Speaker 6: content or self development for men, and so when it's

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Speaker 6: just that, not manisphere content, but that content can quickly

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Speaker 6: start to turn into this kind of more misogynistic, anti

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Speaker 6: feminist belief content, and then that falls into the manisphere.

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Speaker 1: So you regularly run these workshops with men and boys,

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Speaker 1: what are you hearing from them? What draws them to

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Speaker 1: this kind of content?

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Speaker 6: Now more than ever, we would say that young men

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Speaker 6: are confused about what it means to be a man today.

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Speaker 6: Like with gender equality kind of growing over time, which

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Speaker 6: is a great thing, women really have a blueprint of

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Speaker 6: what that looks like, whereas the old school.

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Speaker 3: Gender stereotypes or traditional stereotypes just don't fit for men anymore.

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Speaker 6: And so young men really are searching, like what does

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Speaker 6: it mean to.

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Speaker 3: Be a man. They're nervous to get it wrong.

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Speaker 6: And confused, and so they're seeking belonging and understanding, and

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Speaker 6: unfortunately the Manisphere content kind of fills that void at

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Speaker 6: the moment and shows up quite charismatically for them.

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Speaker 1: I want to ask about some practical or useful tips

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Speaker 1: of how we help quash this in a moment. But

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Speaker 1: can you explain to us why we can't simply ignore

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Speaker 1: it or minimize it to this patch of crazy bros

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Speaker 1: on the internet? Why is that the wrong approach?

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Speaker 6: If we just shut it down, our young people are

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Speaker 6: going to stop talking to us about it, and that's

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Speaker 6: the last thing that we want. We're seeing now more

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Speaker 6: than ever that it's entered the mainstream. So there's a

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Speaker 6: man on maths at the moment that is literally using

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Speaker 6: Manosphere language. It's become very mainstream. The King's University study

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Speaker 6: is showing that as well, and so we need to

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Speaker 6: enter the conversation. We can't just quash it because it's there,

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Speaker 6: we can't avoid it.

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Speaker 3: It's growing rapidly.

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Speaker 6: As parents and educators, we need to be able to

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Speaker 6: engage in the conversation so that we can help our

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Speaker 6: young people critically think about what they're observing too.

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Speaker 1: So does it hurt them? We have shows I've married

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Speaker 1: at first sight beaming into No doubt, you know, hundreds

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Speaker 1: of thousands of televisions every single night, You've got Ossie

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Speaker 1: viewers there who are actively consuming that rhetoric as it's

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Speaker 1: playing out live from people like Tyson. Is that dangerous?

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Speaker 1: Does that just add feel to the fire?

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Speaker 3: I think so.

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Speaker 6: I think that that you know the fact that that's

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Speaker 6: mainstream and people are watching that, and you know they're

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Speaker 6: already kind of absorbing that content and maybe starting to

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Speaker 6: take on those beliefs, and then they're seeing someone represented

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Speaker 6: in mainstream media.

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Speaker 3: It's only promoting that misogyny.

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Speaker 6: It's disappointing that's on mainstream media. The only positive I

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Speaker 6: see in that is that the moments where people in

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Speaker 6: that show are challenging his thinking around that is really important.

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Speaker 6: But the fact that it's being promoted on mainstream is terrifying.

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Speaker 1: Really, are you hoping that maybe there's a world where

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Speaker 1: reality TV can still exist? We can still get, you know,

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Speaker 1: our kicks from watching a bunch of randoms marry each other,

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Speaker 1: but it doesn't have to lead down that particular vein.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely.

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Speaker 6: I think one of the things that we notice more

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Speaker 6: than ever is that young men are seeking these aspirational

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Speaker 6: role models of what it means to be a man.

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Speaker 6: And when you've got people like that that are like,

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Speaker 6: I'm successful, I'm ambitious, I'm driven, you can see.

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Speaker 3: Why young men might be pulled towards that.

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Speaker 6: Whereas if we can show them men that are aspirational,

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Speaker 6: that have real range and their masculinity, that you know,

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Speaker 6: arna scared to show vulnerability or their emotion and show

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Speaker 6: up in different ways, that's a great thing, and I'm

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Speaker 6: sure it can still come with some trauma.

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Speaker 1: Well. On the counter to maths being in the mainstream,

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Speaker 1: Luis Thuru's got a new documentary out Inside the Manisphere,

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Speaker 1: and he's putting it sort of front and center, really

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Speaker 1: interrogating what that concept is and what harm it brings

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Speaker 1: potentially to young people across the globe as well. So

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Speaker 1: while you've got people maybe showing off the manisphere and

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Speaker 1: that kind of behavior in one light on reality television,

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Speaker 1: at least there's another sort of counterpoint to that doing

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Speaker 1: hopefully some help not harm.

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Speaker 6: It's a great thing I think now that the Manisphere

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Speaker 6: is entering the mainstream, and like I said, we're seeing

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Speaker 6: it more. You know, we're hearing manisphere language in our workshops.

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Speaker 6: It's definitely more in the ether. Having people like Luis

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Speaker 6: throw kind of show the opposite and show have some

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Speaker 6: critical thinking around it is really important.

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Speaker 1: And then what about for the rest of us page.

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Speaker 1: I mean, we can't possibly sit there and respond to

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Speaker 1: every single comment and call every single person out every

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Speaker 1: time we hear some language or a comment that's not

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Speaker 1: quite up to the pub test. So what do you suggest?

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Speaker 3: How do we.

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Speaker 1: And this is such a big question, how do we

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Speaker 1: fix the manisphere? How do we dismantle it? What do

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Speaker 1: we do?

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Speaker 6: I wish I had a simple just do this answer.

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Speaker 6: Unfortunately I don't. But we can't avoid young people being online.

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Speaker 6: We can't stop that. We can't dismantle the manisphere. It's

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Speaker 6: not going to happen overnight. It's going to take small

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Speaker 6: acts every day. And I think that some of the

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Speaker 6: things that we see is really important is just like

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Speaker 6: every small day acts of people challenging those really harmful

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Speaker 6: gender stereotypes, making sure that you've got equal responsibilities being

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Speaker 6: shown at home if you do hear a comment. I

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Speaker 6: know it's difficult, but being able to you know, girls

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Speaker 6: shouldn't do these, men should do this.

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Speaker 3: Just challenging thinking around that is really important.

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Speaker 6: Also giving young people an opportunity, like we do in

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Speaker 6: our workshops, to actually unpack this stuff, giving them a

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Speaker 6: chance to understand where did these stereotypes even come from

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Speaker 6: and why do we have to live up to those

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Speaker 6: And giving them real world opportunities to have human connection

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Speaker 6: and conversations, show vulnerability, show a different way to be

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Speaker 6: can have a huge impact so that when they go

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Speaker 6: back online, they know that there's another way. We can't

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Speaker 6: do this work in silos like going in and just

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Speaker 6: talking to the young men is not the solution. What

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Speaker 6: we noticed three years ago is that in every tomorrow

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Speaker 6: Man workshop women just simply didn't feature. And so we've

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Speaker 6: really been active in making sure the female lens is

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Speaker 6: always in that work now.

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Speaker 3: But also we can't just work with.

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Speaker 6: The young men like you have to work with the

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Speaker 6: young men, and we have to create space for young women,

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Speaker 6: the parents, teachers, the sporting clubs, like we all need

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Speaker 6: to have a universal understanding and kind of tools and

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Speaker 6: agency in this space.

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Speaker 3: And I just think that's really important.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for taking some time to feed your mind with

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Speaker 1: us today. Hey, before your head off, make sure you're

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Speaker 1: following the quickie in your favorite podcast app you've got

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Speaker 1: your notifications turned on so you don't miss further news updates,

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Speaker 1: and also come and hang out with us over on

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Speaker 1: Instagram and TikTok and Facebook and all those places we're

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Speaker 1: at the Quickie. This episode is produced by me Taylor Strano,

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Speaker 1: Georgie Page, and Claire Murphy, with audio production by lou Hill.

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Speaker 4: Momma Mere acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters

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Speaker 4: that this podcast is recorded on