1 00:00:10,614 --> 00:00:15,254 Speaker 1: You're listening to a Muma Mea podcast. Mumma Mea acknowledges 2 00:00:15,334 --> 00:00:18,134 Speaker 1: the traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast 3 00:00:18,214 --> 00:00:19,054 Speaker 1: is recorded on. 4 00:00:21,854 --> 00:00:25,094 Speaker 2: Hey, I'm Taylor Strano. This is Muma Mer's twice daily 5 00:00:25,134 --> 00:00:29,654 Speaker 2: news podcast, The Quickie. Yesterday, the United Nations warned fourteen 6 00:00:29,694 --> 00:00:32,414 Speaker 2: thousand babies in Gaza were at risk of death if 7 00:00:32,454 --> 00:00:35,854 Speaker 2: aid didn't reach them, as global pressure is mounting on 8 00:00:35,974 --> 00:00:39,454 Speaker 2: Israel to soften their attacks in the region. Plus, have 9 00:00:39,534 --> 00:00:42,014 Speaker 2: you ever heard of the flying monkey theory? It's the 10 00:00:42,094 --> 00:00:45,014 Speaker 2: term for the people narcissists used to do their dirty 11 00:00:45,054 --> 00:00:47,694 Speaker 2: work before we get there. Here is Claire Murphy with 12 00:00:47,734 --> 00:00:51,334 Speaker 2: the latest from the Quickie newsroom for Thursday May twenty two. 13 00:00:51,734 --> 00:00:52,414 Speaker 1: Thanks Taylor. 14 00:00:52,534 --> 00:00:52,694 Speaker 2: Well. 15 00:00:52,774 --> 00:00:55,174 Speaker 1: Some are saying the Liberal National Coalition will be back 16 00:00:55,214 --> 00:00:57,654 Speaker 1: together in a matter of weeks. An interview with the 17 00:00:57,694 --> 00:01:01,214 Speaker 1: ABC seven thirty report last night may just derail that. 18 00:01:01,734 --> 00:01:04,894 Speaker 1: National Senator Bridget mackenzie told the ABC that the reason 19 00:01:04,974 --> 00:01:07,534 Speaker 1: for the coalition split was purely to do with the 20 00:01:07,574 --> 00:01:10,774 Speaker 1: four key policies the Nationals had on the table being 21 00:01:10,854 --> 00:01:13,614 Speaker 1: rejected by the Liberals. When she was asked if the 22 00:01:13,694 --> 00:01:17,294 Speaker 1: issue with shadow cabinet's solidarity was also something they couldn't 23 00:01:17,294 --> 00:01:20,254 Speaker 1: agree on. After the Liberals revealed that the Nationals wanted 24 00:01:20,254 --> 00:01:22,814 Speaker 1: the freedom to cross the floor on certain issues, including 25 00:01:22,854 --> 00:01:27,294 Speaker 1: climate change, Mackenzie said no, it was purely those four policies. 26 00:01:27,654 --> 00:01:31,054 Speaker 1: Opposition leader Susan Lee's office responded saying Mackenzie had made 27 00:01:31,134 --> 00:01:34,654 Speaker 1: false claims, delivering a message to the seven thirty program 28 00:01:34,934 --> 00:01:38,494 Speaker 1: saying it's not correct to suggest shadow cabinet solidarity was 29 00:01:38,574 --> 00:01:40,654 Speaker 1: not a sticking point and that they had it in 30 00:01:40,694 --> 00:01:43,054 Speaker 1: writing and that it was a requirement from the National's 31 00:01:43,134 --> 00:01:46,494 Speaker 1: leader to theirs. Senator Mackenzie says she stands by her 32 00:01:46,534 --> 00:01:49,014 Speaker 1: comments and said that Susan Lee was not in the 33 00:01:49,014 --> 00:01:52,734 Speaker 1: party room discussion she was. The coalition broke down earlier 34 00:01:52,734 --> 00:01:55,334 Speaker 1: this week, with Nationals leader David little Prowd saying they 35 00:01:55,334 --> 00:01:57,974 Speaker 1: would split from the Liberals after they wouldn't agree with 36 00:01:58,054 --> 00:02:02,774 Speaker 1: their policies on nuclear energy, a regional Future Fund, supermarket divestiture, 37 00:02:02,854 --> 00:02:07,414 Speaker 1: and regional phone and internet delivery. Australian tennis legend Yolena 38 00:02:07,454 --> 00:02:10,454 Speaker 1: Dookyitch has revealed that her father, Demir, has passed away. 39 00:02:10,894 --> 00:02:13,694 Speaker 1: Docitch has been open about the issues with her father 40 00:02:13,814 --> 00:02:16,734 Speaker 1: she endured during her playing days. Writing in her book 41 00:02:16,774 --> 00:02:19,254 Speaker 1: about the abuse she suffered at his hands as he 42 00:02:19,294 --> 00:02:22,334 Speaker 1: pushed her on and off the court. She posted on 43 00:02:22,374 --> 00:02:25,094 Speaker 1: social media that his death had sparked lots of conflicting 44 00:02:25,214 --> 00:02:29,054 Speaker 1: and complex emotions and feelings, but wrote, despite everything, and 45 00:02:29,094 --> 00:02:32,094 Speaker 1: no matter how hard, difficult, and in the last ten years, 46 00:02:32,214 --> 00:02:36,094 Speaker 1: even nonexistent her relationship and communication was it is never 47 00:02:36,214 --> 00:02:39,054 Speaker 1: easy losing a parent and a father, even when you're 48 00:02:39,174 --> 00:02:42,134 Speaker 1: estranged from Dokitch posted a picture of her with her 49 00:02:42,174 --> 00:02:44,694 Speaker 1: dad when she was a toddler, his arm around her, 50 00:02:44,774 --> 00:02:47,414 Speaker 1: saying she's chosen to focus on a good memory like 51 00:02:47,454 --> 00:02:50,494 Speaker 1: this one. Tens of thousands of people are stranded and 52 00:02:50,574 --> 00:02:53,414 Speaker 1: hundreds have had to be rescued as heavy rainfall continues 53 00:02:53,454 --> 00:02:55,774 Speaker 1: to drench the New South Wales, Hunter and Mid North 54 00:02:55,774 --> 00:02:59,254 Speaker 1: coastal regions. The slow moving trough has dumped hundreds of 55 00:02:59,254 --> 00:03:01,974 Speaker 1: millimeters of rain across the area, with more than one 56 00:03:02,054 --> 00:03:04,974 Speaker 1: hundred warnings in place this morning, with people living in 57 00:03:05,014 --> 00:03:06,894 Speaker 1: the path of the flood water told to head to 58 00:03:06,974 --> 00:03:10,454 Speaker 1: hire ground and evacuate if they can. The Sees carried 59 00:03:10,454 --> 00:03:13,894 Speaker 1: out more than three hundred flood related rescues yesterday, having 60 00:03:13,934 --> 00:03:16,934 Speaker 1: to winch some to safety in helicopters when residents found 61 00:03:16,934 --> 00:03:20,894 Speaker 1: themselves stranded on their rooftops. Flooding has cut off some communities, 62 00:03:20,934 --> 00:03:24,734 Speaker 1: with forty eight thousand people now stranded. Local Facebook pages 63 00:03:24,774 --> 00:03:27,694 Speaker 1: are also working to reunite farmers with their cows that 64 00:03:27,774 --> 00:03:29,894 Speaker 1: have been washed down the river and are now wandering 65 00:03:29,934 --> 00:03:33,094 Speaker 1: in the streets of some towns. Evacuation centers have now 66 00:03:33,134 --> 00:03:37,894 Speaker 1: been set up at Dungog, Gloucester, Taree, Manning Point, wingham Balladila, 67 00:03:38,014 --> 00:03:42,294 Speaker 1: Tuncurry Beach, Kempsey and Port Macquarie. Seeinger Chris Brown has 68 00:03:42,334 --> 00:03:45,134 Speaker 1: been granted bail by UK court after he was reminded 69 00:03:45,134 --> 00:03:48,654 Speaker 1: in caustody over allegations of a serious assault. Brown has 70 00:03:48,694 --> 00:03:51,334 Speaker 1: been charged with grievous bodily harm over a twenty twenty 71 00:03:51,374 --> 00:03:55,614 Speaker 1: three unprovoked attack where the victim, music producer Abraham Dior, 72 00:03:55,734 --> 00:03:58,134 Speaker 1: alleges Brown hit him with a tequila bottle in a 73 00:03:58,174 --> 00:04:02,294 Speaker 1: London nightclub. The judge granted Brown bail after initially refusing 74 00:04:02,294 --> 00:04:05,174 Speaker 1: the request on Friday, allowing him to leave prison with 75 00:04:05,214 --> 00:04:08,414 Speaker 1: a five million pound security fee. He was also required 76 00:04:08,414 --> 00:04:11,294 Speaker 1: to surrender his past bought except for when he's traveling 77 00:04:11,334 --> 00:04:14,534 Speaker 1: for his tour. Brown's arrest, which occurred after the singer 78 00:04:14,574 --> 00:04:16,814 Speaker 1: returned to the country for the first time since the 79 00:04:16,854 --> 00:04:20,014 Speaker 1: alleged attack two years ago. Is threatening to derail his 80 00:04:20,134 --> 00:04:22,374 Speaker 1: plans to kick off his world tour in the Netherlands 81 00:04:22,374 --> 00:04:24,814 Speaker 1: on June eighth. Is due to appear in court in 82 00:04:24,854 --> 00:04:26,414 Speaker 1: the UK on June twenty. 83 00:04:26,854 --> 00:04:37,934 Speaker 2: Thanks Claire Next. The latest from Gaza. The humanitarian crisis 84 00:04:37,974 --> 00:04:41,254 Speaker 2: in Gaza has reached a critical point, with the leaders 85 00:04:41,294 --> 00:04:45,574 Speaker 2: of three major nations now threatening concrete actions if Israel 86 00:04:45,734 --> 00:04:50,454 Speaker 2: doesn't stop its military offensive and lift aid restrictions. In 87 00:04:50,494 --> 00:04:53,734 Speaker 2: a joint statement, the leaders of Britain, France and Canada 88 00:04:53,814 --> 00:04:59,054 Speaker 2: condemned Israel's expansion of military operations as wholly disproportionate, describing 89 00:04:59,054 --> 00:05:03,414 Speaker 2: the level of human suffering as intolerable. The UN's Humanitarian 90 00:05:03,494 --> 00:05:06,814 Speaker 2: chief is warning fourteen thousand babies are at risk without 91 00:05:06,814 --> 00:05:11,414 Speaker 2: immediate access to life saving food and supplement. While Israel 92 00:05:11,494 --> 00:05:15,054 Speaker 2: has partially lifted its eleven week blockade, allowing nine trucks 93 00:05:15,094 --> 00:05:18,214 Speaker 2: through the Coremshalom crossing, the UN says it's just a 94 00:05:18,334 --> 00:05:22,534 Speaker 2: drop in the ocean of what's actually needed. Earlier this month, 95 00:05:22,614 --> 00:05:26,534 Speaker 2: her Maas released Israeli hostage and US citizen in Alexander, 96 00:05:26,814 --> 00:05:29,334 Speaker 2: the first hostage to be freed from the militant group. 97 00:05:29,414 --> 00:05:33,734 Speaker 2: Since February, so far, one hundred and forty seven hostages 98 00:05:33,774 --> 00:05:37,174 Speaker 2: have returned to Israel alive. That's through a combination of 99 00:05:37,214 --> 00:05:42,014 Speaker 2: things like exchange deals, rescue operations, and one unilateral release 100 00:05:42,094 --> 00:05:46,014 Speaker 2: by Hermas. As of right now, though fifty eight hostages 101 00:05:46,054 --> 00:05:49,294 Speaker 2: are still being held by the group. Of those, twenty 102 00:05:49,294 --> 00:05:52,014 Speaker 2: one are believed to be alive. That's based on a 103 00:05:52,054 --> 00:05:56,054 Speaker 2: statement from Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanya, who confirming earlier 104 00:05:56,054 --> 00:06:00,334 Speaker 2: comments by US President Donald Trump. Netanna who has said 105 00:06:00,334 --> 00:06:03,494 Speaker 2: the aid Intergaza would be minimal, even as his government 106 00:06:03,654 --> 00:06:07,814 Speaker 2: faces increasing international pressure, including from Australia, who are part 107 00:06:07,854 --> 00:06:10,974 Speaker 2: of twenty three countries to sign up joint statement urging 108 00:06:11,054 --> 00:06:16,374 Speaker 2: Israel to resume full aid into Gaza. Doctor Jessica Ganawa 109 00:06:16,534 --> 00:06:20,174 Speaker 2: is a senior lecturer in international relations at Flinders University. 110 00:06:20,694 --> 00:06:23,214 Speaker 2: Jess get us up to speed on what the last 111 00:06:23,254 --> 00:06:24,574 Speaker 2: few days in Gaza have been. 112 00:06:24,734 --> 00:06:24,814 Speaker 1: Like. 113 00:06:24,974 --> 00:06:28,814 Speaker 2: We know that there's been ground operations and concerns about 114 00:06:28,854 --> 00:06:30,614 Speaker 2: letting enough aid through. 115 00:06:30,974 --> 00:06:35,574 Speaker 3: Yeah, so we've basically had two things happening concurrently. So 116 00:06:35,614 --> 00:06:41,054 Speaker 3: we've had Israel launching what they've called now a new 117 00:06:41,654 --> 00:06:45,494 Speaker 3: military ground operation. I mean it's really a continuation of 118 00:06:45,534 --> 00:06:49,334 Speaker 3: the same, but it's sort of a new military push. 119 00:06:49,774 --> 00:06:55,054 Speaker 3: So we have Israel now we think, going into Gaza 120 00:06:55,134 --> 00:07:00,454 Speaker 3: wanting to actually take full military control over chunks of 121 00:07:00,534 --> 00:07:04,214 Speaker 3: territory within the Gaza Strip, with possibly the idea that 122 00:07:04,254 --> 00:07:07,854 Speaker 3: they would then not relinquish that control again at the 123 00:07:07,894 --> 00:07:12,134 Speaker 3: conclusion of this phase of war between Israel and Hamas. 124 00:07:12,494 --> 00:07:14,414 Speaker 3: And then at the same time, the second thing that's 125 00:07:14,454 --> 00:07:17,574 Speaker 3: been happening, there's been a lot of international pressure on 126 00:07:17,694 --> 00:07:22,974 Speaker 3: Israel to ensure that humanitarian aid, food, water, medical supplies 127 00:07:23,254 --> 00:07:26,174 Speaker 3: can get into the Gaza Strip, and we have seen 128 00:07:26,254 --> 00:07:30,174 Speaker 3: in recent days a very small amount of aid, what 129 00:07:30,534 --> 00:07:33,214 Speaker 3: aid organizations say is maybe about a fifth of what 130 00:07:33,294 --> 00:07:36,814 Speaker 3: Gazans would require as a daily amount, but we have 131 00:07:36,934 --> 00:07:38,414 Speaker 3: seen some a getting in. 132 00:07:38,814 --> 00:07:41,814 Speaker 2: We know that the World Health Organization have said that 133 00:07:41,854 --> 00:07:45,054 Speaker 2: Gaza is experiencing one of the world's worst hunger crises, 134 00:07:45,214 --> 00:07:47,214 Speaker 2: and the UN have also said, and it's what I'm 135 00:07:47,254 --> 00:07:50,934 Speaker 2: seeing everywhere is that they've warned fourteen thousand babies could 136 00:07:50,974 --> 00:07:54,614 Speaker 2: die from malnutrition. Does there come a point where other 137 00:07:54,734 --> 00:07:58,374 Speaker 2: nations and that global community can really step in and say, hey, 138 00:07:58,534 --> 00:08:02,334 Speaker 2: these two major organizations have flagged this, what do we 139 00:08:02,534 --> 00:08:03,174 Speaker 2: do about it? 140 00:08:03,414 --> 00:08:05,734 Speaker 3: That's right, and that's where we've also seen in recent 141 00:08:05,854 --> 00:08:09,934 Speaker 3: days that the European Union the UK I've said that 142 00:08:09,934 --> 00:08:15,414 Speaker 3: they're now starting to contemplate some kind of economic consequences 143 00:08:15,694 --> 00:08:18,414 Speaker 3: for Israel as a result of the fact that we 144 00:08:18,614 --> 00:08:22,014 Speaker 3: are seeing this massive humanitarian crisis in the Gaza Strip, 145 00:08:22,214 --> 00:08:25,854 Speaker 3: and Israel essentially could let in more humanitarian aid if 146 00:08:25,894 --> 00:08:29,174 Speaker 3: they chose to allow that. The UK said they're now 147 00:08:29,214 --> 00:08:33,254 Speaker 3: sort of reconsidering ongoing negotiations around a free trade deal 148 00:08:33,334 --> 00:08:36,214 Speaker 3: with Israel. We've had the European Union saying they might 149 00:08:36,254 --> 00:08:38,934 Speaker 3: need to back out of some trade agreements with Israel, 150 00:08:39,254 --> 00:08:42,854 Speaker 3: and then we've also had ideas floated around possibly imposition 151 00:08:43,054 --> 00:08:46,894 Speaker 3: of economic sanctions. So there are countries now thinking about 152 00:08:47,174 --> 00:08:50,534 Speaker 3: are there some more cost based coercive measures that they 153 00:08:50,534 --> 00:08:55,774 Speaker 3: could put in place, economic mechanisms to try to pressure 154 00:08:55,894 --> 00:08:59,854 Speaker 3: Israel to address the fact that there is that humanitarian 155 00:08:59,894 --> 00:09:01,694 Speaker 3: crisis going on in the Gaza Strip. 156 00:09:02,054 --> 00:09:05,414 Speaker 2: What about that joint statement that Australia and twenty two 157 00:09:05,494 --> 00:09:07,654 Speaker 2: other nations signed, what was that calling for? 158 00:09:07,974 --> 00:09:11,094 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right. So that is essentially calling for an 159 00:09:11,214 --> 00:09:14,734 Speaker 3: end to the fighting and an inflow of humanitarian aid 160 00:09:14,854 --> 00:09:18,694 Speaker 3: to the Gaza Strip. So Australia's approach to the sort 161 00:09:18,694 --> 00:09:21,494 Speaker 3: of Israel Jamas war and what's been happening in Gaza 162 00:09:21,614 --> 00:09:24,414 Speaker 3: I think has been quite interesting that, you know, we 163 00:09:24,454 --> 00:09:27,854 Speaker 3: obviously have a labor government, a left of center government, 164 00:09:27,974 --> 00:09:33,094 Speaker 3: who certainly are condemning the humanitarian crisis going on in 165 00:09:33,134 --> 00:09:36,134 Speaker 3: the Gaza Strip, and they have signed up with certain 166 00:09:36,214 --> 00:09:39,734 Speaker 3: sort of international statements or they've made statements themselves at 167 00:09:39,774 --> 00:09:43,094 Speaker 3: certain points in time, but haven't gone out in a 168 00:09:43,254 --> 00:09:46,974 Speaker 3: very bold i would say, or the way that some 169 00:09:47,614 --> 00:09:51,454 Speaker 3: of their supporters would like them to in terms of 170 00:09:51,854 --> 00:09:55,894 Speaker 3: maybe taking actions as well as an Australian government towards 171 00:09:56,294 --> 00:09:59,134 Speaker 3: this humanitarian crisis that we're seeing unfolding. 172 00:09:59,454 --> 00:10:02,294 Speaker 2: Can we talk about the US President Donald Trump quickly? 173 00:10:02,374 --> 00:10:05,894 Speaker 2: He recently met with Israel's leader Benjamin Netanyahu and suggested 174 00:10:05,934 --> 00:10:09,294 Speaker 2: that maybe Palestinians could be more permanently moved to places 175 00:10:09,334 --> 00:10:12,454 Speaker 2: like Syria or Egypt. Does he have ground to make 176 00:10:12,494 --> 00:10:13,134 Speaker 2: that suggestion? 177 00:10:13,534 --> 00:10:16,174 Speaker 3: So I think that what we've seen from Donald Trump 178 00:10:16,374 --> 00:10:21,134 Speaker 3: in his second term as US president particularly is that 179 00:10:21,174 --> 00:10:24,654 Speaker 3: he really does place himself front and center of a 180 00:10:24,694 --> 00:10:28,094 Speaker 3: lot of global conflicts around the world where the US 181 00:10:28,174 --> 00:10:30,454 Speaker 3: is not a direct party to the conflict, even though 182 00:10:30,494 --> 00:10:33,734 Speaker 3: they might have leverage, even though they have still a 183 00:10:33,774 --> 00:10:38,174 Speaker 3: lot of military and economic might internationally, they're not a 184 00:10:38,254 --> 00:10:41,974 Speaker 3: key party to the conflict. So no, in principle, it's 185 00:10:42,014 --> 00:10:45,054 Speaker 3: not his decision to make. But what we are seeing 186 00:10:45,294 --> 00:10:49,534 Speaker 3: is that Donald Trump is certainly not afraid to make big, 187 00:10:49,574 --> 00:10:55,374 Speaker 3: bold suggestions about what should happen in certain conflicts. Now. Obviously, ultimately, 188 00:10:55,534 --> 00:10:59,574 Speaker 3: if the Palestinian people in Gaza don't agree, if Egypt 189 00:10:59,654 --> 00:11:03,174 Speaker 3: or Libya or other countries where he thinks that Palestinians 190 00:11:03,214 --> 00:11:06,974 Speaker 3: might potentially go do not agree, then no, this isn't 191 00:11:06,974 --> 00:11:08,894 Speaker 3: going to be something that is going to be able 192 00:11:08,934 --> 00:11:12,974 Speaker 3: to eventuate, because of course, the people involve need to 193 00:11:13,014 --> 00:11:17,094 Speaker 3: themselves have a voice and themselves agree to any decision 194 00:11:17,134 --> 00:11:18,814 Speaker 3: that's made about their future. 195 00:11:19,174 --> 00:11:21,374 Speaker 2: So where are we left now, then, Jess. We know 196 00:11:21,454 --> 00:11:24,654 Speaker 2: that there was a brief ceasefire that's obviously ended. We 197 00:11:24,734 --> 00:11:28,294 Speaker 2: know that Israel has let a small amount of aid 198 00:11:28,494 --> 00:11:32,454 Speaker 2: through to Gaza, to the Palestinian people, as the UN 199 00:11:32,454 --> 00:11:35,534 Speaker 2: and the World Health Organizations say, not enough to actually 200 00:11:36,014 --> 00:11:38,854 Speaker 2: cater to what is needed in the area, Trump saying 201 00:11:38,854 --> 00:11:42,014 Speaker 2: they should move to other countries. Twenty three countries have 202 00:11:42,094 --> 00:11:44,054 Speaker 2: now signed a thing and some are starting to look 203 00:11:44,094 --> 00:11:47,334 Speaker 2: at potential economic sanctions. Where are we at and where 204 00:11:47,334 --> 00:11:49,454 Speaker 2: do we go from here? Is there another ceasefire on 205 00:11:49,494 --> 00:11:50,054 Speaker 2: the horizon? 206 00:11:50,334 --> 00:11:55,134 Speaker 3: So there isn't, unfortunately any ceasefire directly on the horizon. 207 00:11:55,294 --> 00:11:57,734 Speaker 3: And I think where we go from here is that 208 00:11:57,774 --> 00:12:00,694 Speaker 3: it will take a lot of pressure on the Israeli 209 00:12:00,734 --> 00:12:06,334 Speaker 3: government to change the approach that has been pursued since 210 00:12:06,774 --> 00:12:09,694 Speaker 3: the October seven attacks, which is really going first and 211 00:12:09,734 --> 00:12:13,334 Speaker 3: foremost for what they would call a military outcome or 212 00:12:13,374 --> 00:12:17,534 Speaker 3: a military solution to the conflict. And I think what 213 00:12:17,614 --> 00:12:21,294 Speaker 3: we're seeing because Israel does have under Prime Minister Vinima Netna, 214 00:12:21,334 --> 00:12:26,214 Speaker 3: who they have a very right wing nationalist coalition and 215 00:12:26,374 --> 00:12:31,694 Speaker 3: also face a lot of domestic unrest and dissatisfaction at 216 00:12:31,734 --> 00:12:34,694 Speaker 3: home within the Israeli domestic context. So I think that 217 00:12:34,734 --> 00:12:37,454 Speaker 3: for Prime Minister Vinimin Netna, who his priority is to 218 00:12:37,494 --> 00:12:40,454 Speaker 3: actually keep up the military operation so that he can 219 00:12:40,654 --> 00:12:44,654 Speaker 3: focus domestic attention on that rather than on criticism towards 220 00:12:44,694 --> 00:12:48,254 Speaker 3: his own Prime ministership, so his preference would be to 221 00:12:48,734 --> 00:12:52,294 Speaker 3: keep going with that military operation, and I don't think 222 00:12:52,294 --> 00:12:56,974 Speaker 3: that he personally is necessarily too concerned with the current 223 00:12:57,054 --> 00:12:59,974 Speaker 3: humanitarian crisis in the Gaza strip. It's really a focus 224 00:13:00,094 --> 00:13:01,894 Speaker 3: just on that military operation. 225 00:13:07,174 --> 00:13:08,974 Speaker 2: Have you ever heard of the flying monkey theory? 226 00:13:09,894 --> 00:13:11,494 Speaker 1: My pretties same. 227 00:13:13,934 --> 00:13:16,414 Speaker 2: No, No, it's got nothing to do with the Wizard 228 00:13:16,454 --> 00:13:19,814 Speaker 2: of Oz sort of. If you ever felt like you're 229 00:13:19,854 --> 00:13:23,814 Speaker 2: being made to feel guilty, isolated, or just downright crazy, 230 00:13:24,174 --> 00:13:27,454 Speaker 2: but it's not coming directly from the person responsible, aka 231 00:13:27,614 --> 00:13:30,894 Speaker 2: the narcissist, then you might be dealing with what psychologists 232 00:13:30,934 --> 00:13:34,574 Speaker 2: call flying monkeys. Look, yes, the term does come from 233 00:13:34,574 --> 00:13:36,614 Speaker 2: the Wizard of Oz, where the Wicked Witch had an 234 00:13:36,694 --> 00:13:39,454 Speaker 2: army of flying monkeys to do her bidding. But in 235 00:13:39,494 --> 00:13:42,334 Speaker 2: real life, these are the people narcissists used to do 236 00:13:42,494 --> 00:13:46,214 Speaker 2: their dirty work. Mamma MIA's newswriter, Eilish Delaney has been 237 00:13:46,254 --> 00:13:49,534 Speaker 2: looking into the flying monkey theory. Elish, you've been speaking 238 00:13:49,574 --> 00:13:53,934 Speaker 2: with a psychologist about this. Why do people use this strategy? 239 00:13:54,294 --> 00:13:57,134 Speaker 4: Narcissists use others to do their dirty work, like gas 240 00:13:57,254 --> 00:14:00,574 Speaker 4: lighting or guilty people on their behalf because it helps 241 00:14:00,574 --> 00:14:03,734 Speaker 4: them preserve their image as a good person while still 242 00:14:03,854 --> 00:14:07,734 Speaker 4: enabling that toxic behavior. And the psychologist I spoke to, 243 00:14:07,894 --> 00:14:11,294 Speaker 4: Rachel Harker, she explained that narcissists are all about keeping 244 00:14:11,374 --> 00:14:14,094 Speaker 4: up that charming facade, so they want people to think 245 00:14:14,094 --> 00:14:16,734 Speaker 4: they're charismatic and they want to be liked by others. 246 00:14:16,974 --> 00:14:19,294 Speaker 2: There's an interesting part about this though, right in that 247 00:14:19,534 --> 00:14:21,614 Speaker 2: the people who are the flying monkeys who are doing 248 00:14:21,654 --> 00:14:24,334 Speaker 2: that dirty work, they don't even necessarily know that they're 249 00:14:24,334 --> 00:14:26,414 Speaker 2: being manipulated. Is that right? 250 00:14:27,014 --> 00:14:29,894 Speaker 4: Yeah, that's right. So in many cases, it'll be friends 251 00:14:30,014 --> 00:14:33,094 Speaker 4: or family members or even mutuals who think that they're 252 00:14:33,134 --> 00:14:36,174 Speaker 4: staying neutral in this situation or that they're trying to help. 253 00:14:36,214 --> 00:14:38,054 Speaker 4: And a lot of the time it is those well 254 00:14:38,094 --> 00:14:40,974 Speaker 4: meaning people who think that they're helping keep the peace, 255 00:14:41,134 --> 00:14:42,174 Speaker 4: but they're not actually. 256 00:14:42,574 --> 00:14:45,814 Speaker 2: What's an example of this, because I mean, in my mind, 257 00:14:45,894 --> 00:14:49,054 Speaker 2: I go to the worst case scenario, which is terrible, 258 00:14:49,094 --> 00:14:51,654 Speaker 2: but they're probably more milder examples of it. 259 00:14:52,254 --> 00:14:54,414 Speaker 4: So a milder example could be if you have a 260 00:14:54,494 --> 00:14:57,334 Speaker 4: narcissist for a parent, say, and they're using your sibling 261 00:14:57,414 --> 00:14:59,454 Speaker 4: to get to you saying why are you responding to 262 00:14:59,534 --> 00:15:02,854 Speaker 4: Mum's text messages or why are you ignoring her xyz? 263 00:15:03,214 --> 00:15:05,294 Speaker 2: What are they looking for? Like what makes the perfect 264 00:15:05,334 --> 00:15:06,014 Speaker 2: flying monkey? 265 00:15:06,294 --> 00:15:09,414 Speaker 4: Yeah, so narcissists are highly skilled at spotting people who 266 00:15:09,414 --> 00:15:12,654 Speaker 4: are vulnerable and then latching onto that and exploiting it. 267 00:15:12,694 --> 00:15:15,454 Speaker 4: So they're able to pick someone who's craving belonging or 268 00:15:15,494 --> 00:15:18,814 Speaker 4: approval and then manipulate that into doing what they want. 269 00:15:18,854 --> 00:15:21,614 Speaker 2: Basically, what's a warning sign? Like how am I supposed 270 00:15:21,654 --> 00:15:24,494 Speaker 2: to be? Like? Oh, I am being manipulated right now? 271 00:15:24,854 --> 00:15:27,414 Speaker 4: Yeah, so it's kind of hard to notice because the 272 00:15:27,774 --> 00:15:31,134 Speaker 4: flying monkey will be playing the peacemaker but in a 273 00:15:31,174 --> 00:15:33,854 Speaker 4: really slight way. So you might start to feel like 274 00:15:33,934 --> 00:15:37,334 Speaker 4: you're constantly second guessing yourself, being guilt tripped or really 275 00:15:37,334 --> 00:15:40,454 Speaker 4: subtly undermined. And Rachel said that you'll start to feel 276 00:15:40,454 --> 00:15:42,174 Speaker 4: like the bad guy in every situation. 277 00:15:42,534 --> 00:15:44,934 Speaker 2: And what about for people who are maybe listening and going, 278 00:15:44,974 --> 00:15:48,014 Speaker 2: oh am I being a flying monkey? Like what are 279 00:15:48,014 --> 00:15:48,854 Speaker 2: they supposed to do? 280 00:15:49,414 --> 00:15:52,374 Speaker 4: So if you realize that you've been acting as a 281 00:15:52,374 --> 00:15:54,894 Speaker 4: flying monkey, the advice is kind of to take a 282 00:15:54,894 --> 00:15:57,894 Speaker 4: step back and assess the situation and then set some 283 00:15:57,974 --> 00:16:01,414 Speaker 4: boundaries with the narcissists. The hardest thing to do is 284 00:16:01,454 --> 00:16:04,374 Speaker 4: to cut them off. But setting those clear boundaries is 285 00:16:04,414 --> 00:16:07,134 Speaker 4: what's recommended. And then if you're the one that's kind 286 00:16:07,134 --> 00:16:09,694 Speaker 4: of on the other end of that and you're being 287 00:16:09,694 --> 00:16:13,054 Speaker 4: targeted by the flying monkeys, the advice is still quite similar. 288 00:16:13,134 --> 00:16:15,974 Speaker 4: It's limit or contact with the narcissist and their flying 289 00:16:16,014 --> 00:16:19,214 Speaker 4: monkeys and really focus on surrounding yourself with safe and 290 00:16:19,374 --> 00:16:22,294 Speaker 4: trusted people. And a good point that Rachel made was 291 00:16:22,334 --> 00:16:26,214 Speaker 4: to document incidents because especially in work or family settings, 292 00:16:26,254 --> 00:16:28,534 Speaker 4: it can help you know that you're not actually going crazy. 293 00:16:30,534 --> 00:16:32,694 Speaker 2: Thanks for taking some time to feed your mind with 294 00:16:32,774 --> 00:16:35,774 Speaker 2: us today. The quickie is produced by me Taylorstrano, and 295 00:16:35,894 --> 00:16:38,774 Speaker 2: Claire Murphy, with audio production by Lou Hill.