Speaker 1: It's a cold July night in Melbourne in twenty thirteen,
Speaker 1: and an elderly couple here a woman screaming. It's nearing
Speaker 1: ten pm and the sounds are coming from the home
Speaker 1: next door. An older woman lives there. Her daughter moved
Speaker 1: in three years ago after an ugly divorce to an
Speaker 1: abusive man. She has two grown up sons. Quickly, Nina
Speaker 1: raises the alarm and police are called. When officers arrive,
Speaker 1: they find Teresa Mancuso in her parents' garage. She's been
Speaker 1: murdered in a crime they'll later describe to the public
Speaker 1: as vicious, cold blooded. As her sons are alerted and
Speaker 1: quickly rushed to the scene, there's no doubt in their
Speaker 1: mind who did it, but it'll be two excruciatingly long
Speaker 1: years before they see their dad arrested. I'm Jemma buff
Speaker 1: and you're listening to True Crime Conversations, a podcast exploring
Speaker 1: the world's most notorious crimes by speaking to the people
Speaker 1: who know the most about them. A warning to listeners,
Speaker 1: what happened to Teresa is horrific listening, but it's important
Speaker 1: to describe so you can understand the depravity of this crime.
Speaker 1: The violence, the rage. Theresa was stabbed at least sixteen
Speaker 1: times in the chest and abdomen, and suffered blunt force
Speaker 1: trauma to the head. She was fourty nine years old,
Speaker 1: her two boys were grown, and she'd been in the
Speaker 1: process of rebuilding her life after divorce. It was her
Speaker 1: chance to be happy after spending more than two decades
Speaker 1: in an abusive marriage, but her rex made that impossible.
Speaker 1: He openly threatened to kill her. He slut shamed her,
Speaker 1: he followed her and her boyfriend, abused her, frightened her,
Speaker 1: called her over and over again. Fernando Paulino made her
Speaker 1: life a living hell. When she died, the former couple
Speaker 1: were just weeks away from a court date to finalize
Speaker 1: the division of their assets, something he claimed he'd never
Speaker 1: let happen. While sentencing him to thirty years in prison,
Speaker 1: Justice Andrew Bell accused the fifty five year old of
Speaker 1: family violence of the most extreme kind. He described the
Speaker 1: murder he committed as a crime of jealousy, hatred, and
Speaker 1: rage by a man against a woman who just wanted
Speaker 1: to be equal, independent and free, or more simply just
Speaker 1: wanted to be It's a powerful sentencing document to read
Speaker 1: all these years later. In the current climate we still
Speaker 1: live in of extreme violence against women at the hands
Speaker 1: of current or former partners. Justice Bell is damning and
Speaker 1: angry and unforgiving. In his condemnation, he talks about Paulino
Speaker 1: depriving his own sons of a mother. Of the impressive
Speaker 1: young men he witnessed in court who have undergone a
Speaker 1: rite of passage far more difficult than most. Daniel, aged
Speaker 1: twenty seven and Luke aged twenty five at the time
Speaker 1: of the court proceedings, both gave evidence in the trial
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty six. They are strong advocates against men's
Speaker 1: violence against women. They speak openly and passionately about family
Speaker 1: violence prevention, and it's all thanks to their neighbor, well,
Speaker 1: their mum's neighbor, the woman who first raised the alarm,
Speaker 1: a Greek grandmother who adopted Daniel and Luke as her
Speaker 1: own after they moved into the house their mum died in,
Speaker 1: who fed them and loved them and showed them a
Speaker 1: kindness that has seen the boys create a social media
Speaker 1: movement turned business called Yaya next Door. Daniel joins us
Speaker 1: now to talk family violence, grief, the power of kindness,
Speaker 1: and his next venture, fatherhood. Daniel thank you for joining
Speaker 1: us on True Crime Conversation. I want to start with
Speaker 1: your mom. Can you tell us about her? Who was
Speaker 1: she and what was she passionate about in life?
Speaker 2: Well, she was just, simply to put it as that's
Speaker 2: the right word here, heartless soul where she always did
Speaker 2: everything for her kids. So she would literally do everything
Speaker 2: and anything for us, for Luke and I and her family.
Speaker 3: She would always, you know, if it was.
Speaker 2: A cold winter morning, I remember going to school, she
Speaker 2: would have our socks in front of the heat are
Speaker 2: so they're nice and warm for when we were to
Speaker 2: put it on our shoes and socks and ready to go.
Speaker 2: You know, she'd just supposedly we bought Cortalezi's with just
Speaker 2: snitzles in Italian and she ripped them up just for
Speaker 2: an after school snack. She would you pick us up
Speaker 2: at any time of the day or night if we
Speaker 2: were going out, she'd always want us to be getting
Speaker 2: home safe. But yeah, she was just a really beautiful
Speaker 2: soul who would do everything and anything for her friends
Speaker 2: and family. And I'm just lucky enough that I obviously
Speaker 2: got to experience quite a significant time with her, because
Speaker 2: I know other people in that circumstances might not get
Speaker 2: to have had experienced that much time, But I try
Speaker 2: and look at the positives and try and just think, well,
Speaker 2: I'm just blessed that I was able to have that
Speaker 2: time with her. And it is hard, I'm not going
Speaker 2: to lie, but especially now more than ever, when like
Speaker 2: I'm about to be a dad and achieving these other
Speaker 2: big milestones in my life. So having that and obviously
Speaker 2: getting married last year were quite really powerful times where
Speaker 2: I really wanted her to be there.
Speaker 3: But I know this should be there in spirit.
Speaker 1: I want listeners to understand a little bit about more
Speaker 1: behind the scenes, because from the outside, as a child,
Speaker 1: you had a nuclear looking family mum, dad, two kids,
Speaker 1: But what was happening behind the scenes that maybe the
Speaker 1: kids at school didn't know about.
Speaker 2: I just wish I had a bit more confidence and
Speaker 2: being open and honest with my friends. Like, don't get
Speaker 2: me wrong, there were probably the times where my friends
Speaker 2: knew some things or whether they heard my parents fighting
Speaker 2: just by yelling and stuff.
Speaker 3: But I just wish that.
Speaker 2: I kind of was a bit more open and honest
Speaker 2: with them, because I feel like you're also given that
Speaker 2: age you're kind of ashamed in retrospective where you feel
Speaker 2: like you want to be pictured as this perfect, loving family.
Speaker 2: So I wish I could just, you know, go back
Speaker 2: to my younger self and just tell him, you know,
Speaker 2: it's okay to speak up to friends and family and
Speaker 2: have that support, because for us, having that support around
Speaker 2: us meant everything.
Speaker 3: And I'd have my friends to today.
Speaker 2: I treat them like my own family, like I see
Speaker 2: them as my family, and I'm just grateful that I
Speaker 2: have such a great support network around me who.
Speaker 3: Have helped me through my hardest times.
Speaker 2: And you know, even when Mum passed away, like one
Speaker 2: of them would always be at the house every night
Speaker 2: or sleeping over just to make us feel more comfortable
Speaker 2: or try and distract us from obviously the hard times.
Speaker 3: At that point in time.
Speaker 1: It sounds like that kind of yelling and violence was
Speaker 1: a bit of an undercurrent throughout your whole childhood. In hindsight,
Speaker 1: witnessing that kind of stuff as a kid, what are
Speaker 1: the lasting impacts it had on how you grew into
Speaker 1: a man, how you kind of formed relationships when that's
Speaker 1: the relationship that you were watching.
Speaker 2: Yeah, look, it was quite hard for me at to start.
Speaker 2: I feel like to be in a relationship. I kind
Speaker 2: of was a bit scared because I wanted it to
Speaker 2: be a perfect relationship because I knew I'd seen my
Speaker 2: parents fighting. So for me growing up, I was always
Speaker 2: a bit scared in leading into a relationship or committing
Speaker 2: I should stay. But in saying that, I feel like
Speaker 2: I am again ending that negative into a positive where
Speaker 2: I've got the blueprint of a man that I don't
Speaker 2: want to be and what I want to be, especially
Speaker 2: being a father and having a family.
Speaker 3: Now I feel like it's.
Speaker 2: Again utilizing I guess what and what not to do
Speaker 2: is kind of what a how I'm approaching this now.
Speaker 1: Your parents separated in twenty ten, so by then you
Speaker 1: and your brother were late teens, early twenties, you'd kind
Speaker 1: of you know you were men. Did you welcome that separation?
Speaker 1: Was that something that you'd been hoping would happen?
Speaker 2: Well at the start, obviously being younger, we were obviously
Speaker 2: hoping that they didn't break up, But it wasn't into
Speaker 2: a bit more in our teenage years and where we
Speaker 2: accepted it and wanted it to happen because we were
Speaker 2: just sick and tired of them fighting, and at the
Speaker 2: end of the day, we actually just wanted them to
Speaker 2: both be happy, and we felt like, you know, they
Speaker 2: got to a point where they didn't seem that.
Speaker 3: So it wasn't until.
Speaker 2: Our later life where we wanted them to separate and
Speaker 2: we felt final relieved to some degree where they were
Speaker 2: broken up, but then obviously things continue to escalate behind
Speaker 2: the scenes, and yeah, it's just obviously sad that obviously
Speaker 2: it had to be the way it ended up. But yeah,
Speaker 2: it was one of those times where you you wanted
Speaker 2: it to happen because you just really got sick and
Speaker 2: tired of them arguing and living in a household where it.
Speaker 3: Felt like that.
Speaker 1: So you were hopeful that by leaving your mom would
Speaker 1: be able to move on and have a happy life.
Speaker 1: And that's just not what ended up happening.
Speaker 3: No, that's right.
Speaker 1: Your mom did everything right in terms of, you know,
Speaker 1: the protections offered to her by the police and everything
Speaker 1: she got an abo, she was telling the police what happened.
Speaker 1: When you look back, what else could she have done
Speaker 1: really to have helped herself. This feels like she did
Speaker 1: everything in the system that's there for her.
Speaker 3: Correct.
Speaker 2: She literally did everything that you kind of follow She
Speaker 2: was lodging when you know a certain stance would come,
Speaker 2: whether that's phone calls or confronting her face to face,
Speaker 2: going to the police station, filing reports and all that
Speaker 2: kind of stuff that goes with that. But obviously it
Speaker 2: wasn't It wasn't enough, and sadly obviously ended the way
Speaker 2: it did. So I just don't know how we as
Speaker 2: a society can change. I feel like, personally, there needs
Speaker 2: to be harsher penalties so people can really understand if
Speaker 2: they do these actions, this is the repercussions, because I
Speaker 2: feel like she did everything in her power to do
Speaker 2: the right thing, to move on with her life, to
Speaker 2: live a happier life and to start fresh with even
Speaker 2: like a new job and everything like that. But then
Speaker 2: obviously things obviously didn't turn that way.
Speaker 1: Did you ever think though that your mum's life would
Speaker 1: be in danger, that it would go that far?
Speaker 2: Look, to be honest, there were threats made during their relationship.
Speaker 2: I'm not going to lie about that, but I didn't
Speaker 2: think ever in my wildest dreams that this would result
Speaker 2: to the way it did, where she slowly passed away
Speaker 2: and now my father's in prison. So yeah, I never,
Speaker 2: in my wildest dreams figured that that would end up
Speaker 2: to be that way, but obviously, yeah, it's here we
Speaker 2: are today obviously talking about this matter.
Speaker 1: Well, it was three years after their separation that your
Speaker 1: mum lost her life. How do you remember finding out
Speaker 1: about that news and where were you?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I remember like it was yesterday.
Speaker 2: We had a dinner at mynna's house where we obviously
Speaker 2: were living with the next doors story, but we had
Speaker 2: a dinner there or sorry, we had a dinner at
Speaker 2: my aunt's house had got moved there, and then we
Speaker 2: were there, and then we came back home, and I
Speaker 2: found it quite strange because I got harrim and all
Speaker 2: the lights were on in the house, the tea was on,
Speaker 2: lasting loud, and I just thought, this is really strange
Speaker 2: because my dad would normally have you know, the lights on,
Speaker 2: sorry off, and have maybe some lights on to make
Speaker 2: it feel like someone's home, never have the TV on,
Speaker 2: especially blasting that loud.
Speaker 3: And then I just.
Speaker 2: Clicked in my mind where we quickly were very fast
Speaker 2: on it, where we were contacting my brother. My brother
Speaker 2: went out after that, because I just got home and
Speaker 2: went to have a shower and get ready for bed.
Speaker 2: But then I made the calls and then was a
Speaker 2: domino effect of my brother, but then call my mom,
Speaker 2: and then I would try and call my dad. Then
Speaker 2: we'd try and call, you know, both our aunties on
Speaker 2: my mom's side on my dad's side, and then obviously
Speaker 2: nothing was heard from either, and it was really strange
Speaker 2: that either of our parents weren't answering the phone. Normally,
Speaker 2: my mom would answer straight away, especially seeing us call
Speaker 2: and say with my dad he had his phone and
Speaker 2: clipped to his belt, even he was a tradee So
Speaker 2: it was just really unusual that another man's it all
Speaker 2: within a specific time frame not calling us back. And
Speaker 2: then it wasn't until our beautiful Naven next door ye
Speaker 2: heard yelling, which then she raised the awareness and called
Speaker 2: my auntie because she had her number, so she called
Speaker 2: her and then my uncle went to the house and
Speaker 2: that's when obviously they found her, and then everything I
Speaker 2: followed after that, and then I remember driving to the
Speaker 2: reservoir because I'm like, I'll just go and see if
Speaker 2: she's okay and see if she was there. And then
Speaker 2: as I was getting closer to the house, I got
Speaker 2: a phone call Saint Daniel, don't go to the house.
Speaker 3: Don't go to the house.
Speaker 2: Come to come to my aunties and then I just
Speaker 2: saw all these cop cars at the front, and then
Speaker 2: I thought the worst. And then it wasn't until we
Speaker 2: walked in there and we heard the news and I.
Speaker 3: Just remember.
Speaker 2: Obviously just breaking down and kind of everything else after
Speaker 2: that was a bit of a blur.
Speaker 3: It didn't feel real. It was like a dream.
Speaker 2: And then throughout that whole night, I think it were
Speaker 2: there at the cops station till six am that whole night,
Speaker 2: having obviously discussions on our movements and not say we'll
Speaker 2: getting lectured like we were the people that did it,
Speaker 2: but they were just trying to obviously put together a story.
Speaker 2: So I was very tiring and long process. And then
Speaker 2: they had to take our clothes and they were wearing too,
Speaker 2: and yeah, then we just went back to my aunties
Speaker 2: and then I remember we had family and friends visit
Speaker 2: and I was just so out of it.
Speaker 3: I hadn't slept for.
Speaker 2: Like nearly two days, and it was just just a
Speaker 2: very emotional and training experience.
Speaker 1: Thank you for telling us that, Daniel. I know it's
Speaker 1: hard to relive that just logistics wise. You were living
Speaker 1: at your dad's house at the time, so did you
Speaker 1: And then you moved in into your mother living.
Speaker 2: With our father, Luke and I. For me, it was
Speaker 2: just more for work purposes. And then Luik, obviously we
Speaker 2: were both live in here and he was doing schooling
Speaker 2: or finishing school or uni, I can't remember now. It
Speaker 2: was like a lifetime ago and we were molso living here,
Speaker 2: not because we wanted to, It was more also to
Speaker 2: keep an eye on our dad. We felt like it
Speaker 2: was a bit safer to have that extra eye on him,
Speaker 2: whereas in an idea.
Speaker 3: Where we were moved in with our mom in a heartbeat.
Speaker 2: But we just felt like it was probably the wisest
Speaker 2: thing to do to keep an eye on him. And
Speaker 2: also I felt like if we had moved in with
Speaker 2: our mom, he probably would have got more upset and angry,
Speaker 2: which is sad to say, but we just tried to
Speaker 2: make it with what the best possible outcome is for
Speaker 2: all parties at the end of the day. So yeah,
Speaker 2: that's obviously how our living arrangements were at the time.
Speaker 2: And then obviously once my mom passed away, we were
Speaker 2: living with my auntie and they just had bought a house.
Speaker 2: That's so lucky the house was big enough to fit
Speaker 2: us in I mean, it wasn't ideal, like I had
Speaker 2: to share a room with my brother in our early twenties,
Speaker 2: which we'd never had shared a room in our life
Speaker 2: because we're lucky enough to have our own bedroom. By
Speaker 2: the Yeah, we're there for two years, and then we
Speaker 2: built the courage up to move back. Our mum sadly
Speaker 2: passed away, which was a really hard decision, but I'm
Speaker 2: kind of grateful we did because obviously then we wouldn't
Speaker 2: have this beautiful relationship with our neighbor, and obviously wouldn't
Speaker 2: be here today talking to you on this podcast.
Speaker 3: So it was very hard.
Speaker 2: But you know, we didn't move into the for a while,
Speaker 2: and we didn't even walk into the garage for six
Speaker 2: months when we were living there. At the time, it
Speaker 2: was just a band. We just left it there with
Speaker 2: all the boxes. But then again, lucky we had our
Speaker 2: friends that would come and constantly visit or stay over,
Speaker 2: and we had an annual tradition every Thursday we had
Speaker 2: friends coming over to play cards, to watch the footy,
Speaker 2: have some food or coffees, and playing table tennis and
Speaker 2: other games and basketball. So we kind of felt a
Speaker 2: bit safer because again it was hard for us to
Speaker 2: move in because our father wasn't arrested for quite a
Speaker 2: few years prior to that, so we're kind of living
Speaker 2: in constant fear if you come, come back. And then
Speaker 2: we had at times telling him to telling us to
Speaker 2: come and visit him, to come back to live with him,
Speaker 2: which was really hard because straight away when mum passed away,
Speaker 2: we knew who done it, but we had to respect
Speaker 2: what the police did and just say, look, keep an
Speaker 2: open mind. We know.
Speaker 3: What you think the.
Speaker 2: Case may be, but you kind of just got to
Speaker 2: to be like that way given that they've experienced this before.
Speaker 2: So we were just quite blunt with our responses and
Speaker 2: it was very he That was probably one of the
Speaker 2: hardest times too, during that time, where he was arrested
Speaker 2: and not knowing if we were next door, he would
Speaker 2: come to try and confront us. So yeah, it was
Speaker 2: really hard, but again we were just lucky that we
Speaker 2: had a beautiful neighbor next door and obviously our amazing friends.
Speaker 1: Around up next. Daniel shares how he and his brother
Speaker 1: endured the court case that followed their mum's murder and
Speaker 1: what it was like confronting their dad. It was an
Speaker 1: excruciating wait for you two years from until he was arrested.
Speaker 1: I'm assuming the police were just trying to gather evidence,
Speaker 1: but that doesn't make it any easier for you. And
Speaker 1: then you go through the court process and there isn't
Speaker 1: a sentencing until twenty seventeen, so that's another few years.
Speaker 1: How did you find that whole process of court and
Speaker 1: sentencing and you gave evidence once that was all finally over.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, it was definitely one of the hardest priets.
Speaker 2: Obviously here in the news about my mom passing away.
Speaker 2: It was probably the hardest thing I'm about to do
Speaker 2: in my life. I don't wish it upon anybody having
Speaker 2: to experience being in a court with your dad kind
Speaker 2: of confronting and being open and eyes in front of
Speaker 2: strangers and reporters, hearing our story and our family upbringing,
Speaker 2: and then obviously having him shouting out like his innocent
Speaker 2: and the stuff like that. So it was really really
Speaker 2: hard and challenging, and it just felt like it was
Speaker 2: a lifetime because it did go on for a very
Speaker 2: long time.
Speaker 3: It was one of the longer.
Speaker 2: Processes of being in that court with that court case,
Speaker 2: so it did go on for a very long time,
Speaker 2: and it just sucks because it had to again enough
Speaker 2: evidence to kind of build up this case and obviously
Speaker 2: make it a strong case.
Speaker 3: So then hopefully he doesn't, you know, have a shorter sentence.
Speaker 2: Everyone knew it was him, but.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was. It's a very hard process.
Speaker 2: And I still remember to this day, I'm speaking to
Speaker 2: Tony Harwood, who was the detective with our case, and
Speaker 2: I needed to I needed a break and I needed
Speaker 2: to get away. So I went away in twenty fifteen
Speaker 2: to Europe with my friends, and I said at the time,
Speaker 2: I'm like, are you sure this is okay for me
Speaker 2: to go? Like, I know, I really need to go
Speaker 2: just for my mental clarity and health, but I'm more
Speaker 2: so mindful that could he be arrested or do I
Speaker 2: need to be here for all this kind of extra
Speaker 2: stuff that could arise.
Speaker 3: And he said, no, no, that's fine.
Speaker 2: You go, You'll be all fine, nothing, nothing should kind
Speaker 2: of happen while you're away. And then I still remember
Speaker 2: we were on their midst or end of our Kentigui
Speaker 2: trip in Greece and I get flooded with messages on
Speaker 2: my phone saying are you okay? And had all these
Speaker 2: calls and messages and digging, like shit, what's what's happened?
Speaker 2: Like as my lord the past away, I just thought
Speaker 2: of something completely off, off topic or off off the
Speaker 2: whole perspective.
Speaker 3: Of what was going on.
Speaker 2: And then it wasn't until I spoke to some family
Speaker 2: and then saw all the news articles and stuff where
Speaker 2: it to my dad had been arrested. So it was crazy.
Speaker 2: And then I'm like, well, would you like me to
Speaker 2: fly back home? And given everything that happened and I'm
Speaker 2: not really familiar with this whole process, and then they said, no,
Speaker 2: finish your trip off, enjoy your time off, and when
Speaker 2: you get back, will will work it all out.
Speaker 1: So could you enjoy the rest of your trip? After
Speaker 1: hearing something like that, knowing your brother was back home
Speaker 1: as well, it.
Speaker 2: Was very hard, but as bad as it sounds, it
Speaker 2: was a relief because I knew he was arrested, so
Speaker 2: like it was in some perspective at least a lead
Speaker 2: in the right direction, a step in the right direction,
Speaker 2: I should say.
Speaker 3: So it was hard, but I feel like too, it.
Speaker 2: Was amazing to hear because it was just like, Okay,
Speaker 2: we've finally gotten somewhere with everything, and now like he's arrested.
Speaker 2: I can come back comfortable knowing that he's not at home,
Speaker 2: come and see try and see me or speak to me.
Speaker 2: So it was hard, but also it was kind of
Speaker 2: like a bit of it. As bad as it sounds,
Speaker 2: we've kind of celebrated. I remember the night you heard,
Speaker 2: the boys bought a shot and just had a toast
Speaker 2: to my mom and to celebrate obviously what had happened.
Speaker 2: And then they're just again lucky I had them around
Speaker 2: to make it all worth my while and felt safe
Speaker 2: and better.
Speaker 1: It's so interesting hearing you say that story, because you know,
Speaker 1: your early twenties, you are on kntique doing shots. That's
Speaker 1: what you're supposed to be doing, and yet you're also
Speaker 1: dealing with something so incredibly heavy that no one should
Speaker 1: have to deal with. It's like that, how do you
Speaker 1: keep living your life? But then you know you're still
Speaker 1: having to go to court and give evidence and do
Speaker 1: all of this really really heavy stuff. Were you given
Speaker 1: any support during that process? Did the courts give you support,
Speaker 1: the police anything like that?
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I don't know the exact term now, but
Speaker 2: we did get some government funding for like counseling, for
Speaker 2: other mental health things.
Speaker 3: I think for like you know, a gym membership or.
Speaker 2: Other stuff that we could do that would help kind
Speaker 2: of alleviate that, which was great, Like it did help,
Speaker 2: but then nothing lasts forever. It did have a cutoff
Speaker 2: with with those like you had. I think it was
Speaker 2: I can't remember the tom iha, but like maybe I
Speaker 2: think from memory ten or twenty counseling things that you
Speaker 2: were allocated individually obviously, so there was obviously that, but
Speaker 2: I just feel like it's all good at the start,
Speaker 2: but you kind of now more than ever, this is
Speaker 2: when the time you really need it most personally, especially
Speaker 2: like said, getting married and having a family, like this
Speaker 2: is the time where you feel like.
Speaker 3: You're it doesn't hit you until now when you're really grieving.
Speaker 2: You're like, for me, like I wish my mum would
Speaker 2: be here to like, you know, even lend a hand.
Speaker 3: We're not.
Speaker 2: I'm going to need it now more than ever, or
Speaker 2: being able to see the birth of my child or
Speaker 2: seeing me getting married, because I know that should be
Speaker 2: so proud and be one of those annoying moms with
Speaker 2: their phone out showing baby photos or marriage photos on
Speaker 2: the wedding day.
Speaker 3: So just knowing that she's not physically here.
Speaker 2: It's really hard, and so I wish like this is
Speaker 2: where I feel like, now more than ever, this is
Speaker 2: where the funding should be allocate, or at least a
Speaker 2: creative process where we think maybe we allocate stuff at
Speaker 2: the start, middle, and end, or not the same end,
Speaker 2: but towards later in life, because I feel like this
Speaker 2: is more more needed now more than ever.
Speaker 1: Well, that makes sense because you're kind of entering that
Speaker 1: stage of life that your mum was more in where
Speaker 1: she was having kids and that became her kind of
Speaker 1: her focus in life. It makes sense that your grief
Speaker 1: would kind of come back up at this point. I
Speaker 1: want to bring Yaya in here because, as you mentioned,
Speaker 1: she was the neighbor of your mom where your mom
Speaker 1: was living. Can you tell us a bit about that,
Speaker 1: because she'd been the neighbor for years, she knew your mom,
Speaker 1: she knew you from when you were kids. She's kind
Speaker 1: of been a constant.
Speaker 2: So she's been a part of our well, I feel
Speaker 2: like people do know this if they really have paid attention,
Speaker 2: But she's been a part of our life the whole time.
Speaker 2: She's seen me and my brother grow up, my family
Speaker 2: grow up, because she lived next door to mine, Noma,
Speaker 2: who where they had all the kids, and their kids
Speaker 2: went to the same school, so they would walk together
Speaker 2: to school and they had a relationship with them. So
Speaker 2: throughout her whole life, she's always been a prisons in
Speaker 2: our life. And it wasn't until obviously, which is sad
Speaker 2: to say, but wasn't until obviously when Mom passed aways,
Speaker 2: when our friendship or I guess.
Speaker 3: Love grew for each other even more.
Speaker 2: And you know who constantly always you know, touching base
Speaker 2: with her, seeing how she's doing, or visiting her or
Speaker 2: even you know, doing the chores with whether that's cutting
Speaker 2: grass or picking them up from the pokes, or dropping
Speaker 2: them off, or getting some groceries shops delivered, or some
Speaker 2: freebies that we might get that I know that they
Speaker 2: would love. I always look out for them, and I
Speaker 2: always will because there have been a big presence in
Speaker 2: my life ever since that day. And she always wants
Speaker 2: us to be known as her ear. She even calls
Speaker 2: my wife cookler, which is beautiful in Greek, and she
Speaker 2: treats her like her own daughter. And she's very proud
Speaker 2: that she's now a great year and she's so excited
Speaker 2: to see the baby So I'm just so happy that
Speaker 2: she's a part of my life, because sadly I've lost
Speaker 2: now both my grandparents just due to old age and
Speaker 2: whether that's health effects. But I'm just grateful that I
Speaker 2: still have Paple in my life and treat them like
Speaker 2: my own and be able to hopefully still have a
Speaker 2: long term with them or at least seeing my kids
Speaker 2: grow up with them in the picture.
Speaker 1: For those that haven't seen your Instagram and don't know
Speaker 1: what we're talking about, tell me how it started, How
Speaker 1: did how did she help you in the biggest grief
Speaker 1: moment of your life?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I still remember to this day.
Speaker 2: Actually it was I was just playing basketball in the backyard,
Speaker 2: so she would have heard me making some noise, and
Speaker 2: I just hear this little old lady's voice, Daniel, I've
Speaker 2: got something for you, and saccumb to the fence, which
Speaker 2: is the iconic passover that you see for most of
Speaker 2: our videos. And she just handed a big tim which
Speaker 2: her mum sorry gifted her when she traveled here overseas,
Speaker 2: and she cooked about I think it was nine drumsticks
Speaker 2: chicken jumpsticks, and under that was rice and the steam
Speaker 2: was still coming off on the top of it, and
Speaker 2: she just gifted and said this is for you and Luke,
Speaker 2: so you enjoy.
Speaker 3: And it wasn't.
Speaker 2: I was just filming these acts of a kindness on
Speaker 2: my personal Instagram account and then I got so many
Speaker 2: comments from just family and friends where they're like, oh
Speaker 2: my god, this is so.
Speaker 3: So cute, You're so lucky.
Speaker 2: And then I don't know, I just had the thought
Speaker 2: of creating my own account, just given again I'm been
Speaker 2: in the creative space, I'm like, it won't take me
Speaker 2: long to do that. So I just created an account,
Speaker 2: which is at the time titled the Girl next Door.
Speaker 2: Then I created the page and then I had it
Speaker 2: up for a little while and we only had a
Speaker 2: few hundred followers, and then it wasn't until Martha from
Speaker 2: Maths from the Age of Maths who at the time,
Speaker 2: which is about to say, but I didn't know of
Speaker 2: her because.
Speaker 3: I hadn't watched the show.
Speaker 2: But it wasn't until she reshared a story or really
Speaker 2: went about posts on her story, and then it just
Speaker 2: blew up overnight, and from a couple of hundred followers,
Speaker 2: we blew up to I think it was six thousand,
Speaker 2: and then over that time it just built more more
Speaker 2: traction where we had the Age article from Tom Cowe,
Speaker 2: which again was another big I guess milestone in our
Speaker 2: journey where that was one of the most read articles
Speaker 2: of the year from the Age, and also Tom won
Speaker 2: a Quill Award which was recognized as one of the
Speaker 2: best stories from that year. And then also our photo
Speaker 2: got recognized as one of the top fifty photos of
Speaker 2: the year. So and then from there it was then printed,
Speaker 2: then went into media where we had the project with
Speaker 2: Tommy Little and then it just blew up again. And
Speaker 2: then after that it just was a domino effect of
Speaker 2: other amazing collaborations or partnerships with media or having our
Speaker 2: Glove cookbook out.
Speaker 1: That's insane, Daniel, how that grew and blew up. I
Speaker 1: can definitely see like it kind of goes to that
Speaker 1: instinctual Australian quality of like the neighbor and the kindness,
Speaker 1: and I do think over recent years we've kind of
Speaker 1: lost that neighborly kindness value is do you think that's
Speaker 1: why it resonated so much as people.
Speaker 2: I just feel like everyone resonates, especially back when I
Speaker 2: was a little kid, that people would live in the
Speaker 2: street growing.
Speaker 3: Up, and I feel like it's a lost art.
Speaker 2: Now everyone's glued to technology, and I feel like people
Speaker 2: don't go outdoors anymore or outside. Maybe they do just
Speaker 2: for sporting clubs and functions, but you know, you don't
Speaker 2: really see kids playing in the court anymore or playing
Speaker 2: random games that they make up. They just see the
Speaker 2: playing on technology like PlayStation or on their iPads, watching
Speaker 2: movies or YouTube. So I feel like it's just a
Speaker 2: lost form and I feel like we've lost that sense
Speaker 2: of community around us, which is sad because I feel
Speaker 2: like now more than their bar as a society, we
Speaker 2: need it. And you know, I can almost guarantee you
Speaker 2: most of the people might not know one of their neighbors,
Speaker 2: either beside.
Speaker 3: Them or across the road.
Speaker 2: So I really want to try and challenge that and
Speaker 2: change that narrative where you know, you've got to get
Speaker 2: to know your neighbors, and as the slogan we use
Speaker 2: is love thy neighbor. So I really want people to
Speaker 2: try and bring that back because I feel like now
Speaker 2: more the neighbor. Like I said, it's it's really important
Speaker 2: that we need to know our neighbors because if anything
Speaker 2: were to go wrong, you know, they are the first
Speaker 2: people that could come to come to you in a
Speaker 2: time of crisis or neat like I know, for instance,
Speaker 2: when my mum or parents would fight, or even you know,
Speaker 2: she would flee to my neighbor's house across the street
Speaker 2: or the under road just to feel safe that for
Speaker 2: that brief moment until things hopefully calm down, or if
Speaker 2: we as kids growing up felt like uncomfortable, that we
Speaker 2: would go to our friend's house in the court and
Speaker 2: just get out of the house, or my mom would
Speaker 2: do the same and then we'd flee that. So for
Speaker 2: us growing up, our whole life, we always sense had
Speaker 2: that sense of community around us, which we're fortunate to have,
Speaker 2: and I hope to kind of bring that back with
Speaker 2: my with my family and kid growing up.
Speaker 3: Just that's why we're trying to promote that.
Speaker 2: And the beauty I guess with the extor in our
Speaker 2: story behind her is too.
Speaker 3: I feel like.
Speaker 2: The love of the fact that we don't show her
Speaker 2: identity so it can showcase that any anyone could be
Speaker 2: this beautiful lady. Whether it's young and old, male, female,
Speaker 2: Greek or Italian, doesn't really matter.
Speaker 3: Anyone could be this selfless soul.
Speaker 2: So it's kind of been a blessing that we've respected
Speaker 2: her wish is not to show her identity, to showcase that,
Speaker 2: you know, anyone could take.
Speaker 1: That on story aside, when it comes back to just
Speaker 1: this gesture from your neighbor in a time of need,
Speaker 1: what did that mean for you and your brother? How
Speaker 1: did it how did it help you during that time?
Speaker 3: For us, it just we just felt somewhat more safe
Speaker 3: and having like a mother figure or grandma the figure
Speaker 3: next though to us. So for us it was everything,
Speaker 3: I guess.
Speaker 2: Because we just felt like we had someone eyes and
Speaker 2: ears next door looking after us. So if things were
Speaker 2: to go wrong, or if the time or crisis were
Speaker 2: to her eyes for good or bad, that we had
Speaker 2: her were knowing that we had her next door to
Speaker 2: help and vice versa with her, especially being in her
Speaker 2: older age, that if she needed us she could we
Speaker 2: could return the favor in our way.
Speaker 1: You also hear time and time again when something tragic
Speaker 1: happens in someone's life, often they lose friends because people
Speaker 1: just don't know how to show up for them anymore.
Speaker 1: Whereas this is showing the polar opposite, where your neighbor
Speaker 1: really stepped up, she became everything. So it's kind of
Speaker 1: promoting that you know, Bae are not everyone else that
Speaker 1: kind of disappears. Did you find that in your world
Speaker 1: that some people kind of drifted apart and drifted away
Speaker 1: to some degree?
Speaker 3: Yes, whether that is some people, I feel like some
Speaker 3: like I don't know.
Speaker 2: As too you get older, you probably your network it's
Speaker 2: a lot smaller, not in a bad way, but you
Speaker 2: just you live in a constant, busy life and you
Speaker 2: know your network it's closer and smaller, and you kind
Speaker 2: of try and make more time for those that really
Speaker 2: mean a lot to you or that have been there
Speaker 2: through the highs and the lowers of your life.
Speaker 3: So yeah, I feel like is always going to be
Speaker 3: a special part of my life, and my wife's life
Speaker 3: and my kid's life.
Speaker 2: So I'm just blessed that I get to have an
Speaker 2: extra grandparent in my life because obviously we don't talk
Speaker 2: to our dad's side. We didn't really have a great
Speaker 2: relationship with our grandparents on his side, So in that retrospect,
Speaker 2: we kind of had that second grandparents that we never really.
Speaker 3: Got to have properly.
Speaker 1: More of my conversation with Daniel after the break you
Speaker 1: turned next Door into a cookbook. How did that come about.
Speaker 1: Was that just from people wanting recipes or how did
Speaker 1: it go from a social media page to a cookbook?
Speaker 2: Yeah, so it was during the seawork, the COVID era,
Speaker 2: So it was kind of hard because we were promised
Speaker 2: this deal and then obviously things to the world turned
Speaker 2: crazy or pear shaped with everything going on with the unknowing,
Speaker 2: and then it wasn't. I feel like, in my perspective,
Speaker 2: it was faith that it wasn't meant to be. And
Speaker 2: then we're just lucky enough that the legends at Pam
Speaker 2: McMillan sent me around a message on Instagram wanting us,
Speaker 2: wanting to send us some stuff that was relatable to
Speaker 2: what we're doing. And then it wasn't until I just thought,
Speaker 2: you know stuff, and I'm just going to shoot for
Speaker 2: the stars here and see what could come about of this.
Speaker 2: And we just thought, why not try and propose a
Speaker 2: Greek cookbook or cookbook at that time where we could
Speaker 2: hopefully bring these recipes to life so people can, you know,
Speaker 2: experience their family recipes or your yards recipes, because I
Speaker 2: feel like it's a lost art where your grandparents don't
Speaker 2: write them down, it's all backed up in the memory
Speaker 2: bank and then sadly enough it then it gets to
Speaker 2: a point where it's too late to get those ingredients
Speaker 2: or recipes down because sadly they'll forget or have dementia,
Speaker 2: and then you miss out on that opportunity and you're
Speaker 2: kind of just thinking, well, this is this might go
Speaker 2: with that.
Speaker 3: So and I'm in the same boat.
Speaker 2: I wish I obviously got some of mine on Theo's
Speaker 2: recipes and my mum's recipes.
Speaker 3: But.
Speaker 2: I just feel like it was a beautiful way to
Speaker 2: tribute to all amazing your yards out there to be
Speaker 2: able to have that recipe with their loved ones and
Speaker 2: bringing back that nostalgic feel. And we wanted to obviously
Speaker 2: give back to the community, so for us, we wanted
Speaker 2: to do a community call out where it wasn't just
Speaker 2: the yards recipes, it was actually every other recipe from
Speaker 2: there to put forward in the book so everyone felt
Speaker 2: a part of it across Australia. I just wanted to
Speaker 2: thank our community for their love and supporter over the journey,
Speaker 2: and also thank ya Ya and her family for allowing
Speaker 2: us to capture these beautiful moments and now they're so
Speaker 2: fortunate enough that they can have your yards recipes for
Speaker 2: life in their property.
Speaker 1: Can you tell us about some of your favorite ar
Speaker 1: recipes that she put over the fence to you during
Speaker 1: that time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, as I was saying earlier, definitely one of
Speaker 2: the highlights, and it's just a very simple dish, but
Speaker 2: it just brings me back to our I guess journey.
Speaker 3: So the chicken and rice was the one that will.
Speaker 2: Always stay close to my heart, just purely for the
Speaker 2: fact that it was the first recipe she handed over to us.
Speaker 2: I also love you can't go past a good spanakoptas,
Speaker 2: so I love that. And then I'm going to be
Speaker 2: biased here and paytribute to one of my mum's recipes.
Speaker 3: But it was a rack a land with jam.
Speaker 2: So it was actually one of the last dishes that
Speaker 2: my mom unfortunately cooked for me before she passed away.
Speaker 2: So I was fortunate enough that I was able to
Speaker 2: remember and asking family friends who were really quite good
Speaker 2: in the kitchen to kind of try and think of
Speaker 2: the ingredients that were use in her dish. So they're
Speaker 2: just some that I really loved and for me, like
Speaker 2: I'm the master chef, I'm very basic in the kitchen.
Speaker 2: I'm quite quick and easy and healthy. So to think
Speaker 2: that I have my own cookbook that blows my mind still.
Speaker 2: It just goes to show how much the power of
Speaker 2: community has supported us. And we're here today obviously sharing
Speaker 2: these beautiful meals with everybody now. And I'm just fortunate
Speaker 2: that I was able to have that opportunity because it
Speaker 2: could have gone either way, especially during that COVID era.
Speaker 1: It's so powerful hearing stories like yours and having this
Speaker 1: beautiful kind of cookbook to talk about, and all the
Speaker 1: good you and your brother have done. Obviously, there's the
Speaker 1: horrible story at the center of it. Has that taken
Speaker 1: a toll on you? Having to retell this story and
Speaker 1: live in this space for the past eight years while
Speaker 1: building you next door.
Speaker 2: Yeah, look, I've been a life I said, it wasn't.
Speaker 2: I mean, it does take toll a ptolemy, it takes
Speaker 2: a totle of me. You have your waves and moments
Speaker 2: when that is the case, But in a positive way.
Speaker 2: I just try and see it as like it's my
Speaker 2: way of having a therapeutic session with a counsel without
Speaker 2: having to pay I guess, but I just wanted to
Speaker 2: raise awareness and support women who have sadly lost their
Speaker 2: life or going through domestic violence and families too. Most importantly,
Speaker 2: to try and hopefully be a voice, especially as a
Speaker 2: young man, which is not common, especially in this space.
Speaker 2: And I just want hopefully whether the younger generation are
Speaker 2: looking back and seeing me speak up hopefully helps them
Speaker 2: to do the same if they're in that same situation.
Speaker 3: So I see it in a good and bad way.
Speaker 2: But yeah, it does. I'd be lying if it didn't.
Speaker 2: I didn't say it didn't take a toll on me.
Speaker 2: But like I said, I have my good days and
Speaker 2: my bad days, just like anyone, whether that's with work
Speaker 2: or life in general.
Speaker 1: So you and your brother are now advocates in the
Speaker 1: domestic violence prevention space. Can you tell us a bit
Speaker 1: about the organizations you've chosen to affiliate yourselves with.
Speaker 3: Yes, So we've.
Speaker 2: Tried to work with like minded organizations that we feel like,
Speaker 2: really that we really admire because they're doing amazing work.
Speaker 2: And we're no professionals in this space. We're just live,
Speaker 2: going through lived experiences and kind of learning on the fly,
Speaker 2: because like I said, I'm a graphic designer, not in
Speaker 2: you know, psychology or domestic violence and all that stuff.
Speaker 3: But I just want to continue to work.
Speaker 2: With like mind organizations like our Watch Safe Steps, and
Speaker 2: I'm probably forgetting so many more, but we've collaborated with
Speaker 2: all these amazing brands and organizations in order to try
Speaker 2: and continue to drive that message across and try and
Speaker 2: do it in a creative way, whether that's through food
Speaker 2: collaborations like Messina or our cookbook, where we've you know,
Speaker 2: pro precentive Jara proceeds are going to charities in that space.
Speaker 2: I just want to continue doing that and then just
Speaker 2: making an impact in any way I can.
Speaker 1: What do you want kids that are living in situations
Speaker 1: like you were to know from hearing about your story?
Speaker 1: What do you wish you knew? What do you wish
Speaker 1: they know?
Speaker 2: I just want them to know that you're not alone,
Speaker 2: like You've got support network around you all the time.
Speaker 2: You just need to be confident, open and honest with
Speaker 2: your emotions and how you're feeling. So I wish I
Speaker 2: could go back to my younger self and say, you know,
Speaker 2: speak up or speak up to your friends or your
Speaker 2: parents at the time, because I always questioned if I
Speaker 2: had maybe spoken earlier in their early years, that maybe
Speaker 2: we wouldn't be here today. So I just want the
Speaker 2: younger generation to know, like you know, no one's perfect,
Speaker 2: whether that's through you know, mental health or wellbeing, or
Speaker 2: parents fighting, through domestic violence, everyone's going through something, or
Speaker 2: even health problems in general. So I just want people
Speaker 2: to know that life is sadly not perfect, but it's
Speaker 2: how you persevere and continue to try and be the
Speaker 2: best person you can be and treat others how you
Speaker 2: like to be treated.
Speaker 1: A lot of the stories that we hear about violent
Speaker 1: men is that they had violence in their childhoods or personally,
Speaker 1: a lot of the people I've interviewed have told me
Speaker 1: that that there was violence in their childhoods. You and
Speaker 1: your brother have broken that pattern. Are there any tangible
Speaker 1: things that you can advise to young boys to men
Speaker 1: to help break that cycle more often?
Speaker 2: If you can just show up and be the best
Speaker 2: version of yourself, and like I'm just saying, just before,
Speaker 2: treating others how you want to be treated, I feel
Speaker 2: like the world would be a lot better place. And
Speaker 2: you know, if you if you see something like whether
Speaker 2: call it out or at least pull someone aside and
Speaker 2: just say, look, I don't think that's right, or speak
Speaker 2: up and help them. Because people are often scared to
Speaker 2: speak up or pull someone aside to tell them, hey,
Speaker 2: that's all right, and you know, pull your socks up
Speaker 2: and and do some do some good in the world,
Speaker 2: because unfortunately the world's a crazy place and it only
Speaker 2: seems to be getting more and more crazier. So for
Speaker 2: me personally, I just feel like they need to just
Speaker 2: realize simply just you want to live in a world
Speaker 2: where you want to treat others how you want to
Speaker 2: be treated, and and think about like roles were reversed,
Speaker 2: how would you feel. Or if you had a daughter
Speaker 2: or a son or that's your mum, how would that
Speaker 2: make you feel? So I feel like people just need
Speaker 2: to stop and think before they speak and before their actions.
Speaker 1: You said yourself that there aren't a lot of male
Speaker 1: voices in this space. Have you felt the power of
Speaker 1: being a male role model in this area?
Speaker 3: I do.
Speaker 2: I do feel like there is, which is great to see.
Speaker 2: It's getting more and more better in this space. I'm
Speaker 2: wearing a Carlton Respects hat who I've worked with for
Speaker 2: a number of years now. We've just recently celebrated ten
Speaker 2: years of Carlton Respects. So knowing that as a football club,
Speaker 2: especially the AFL team, they've really taken it upon themselves
Speaker 2: to really I guess shine right in that space where
Speaker 2: they really wanted to turn into something very powerful. So
Speaker 2: they dedicate every year around to that game where they're
Speaker 2: really highlighting the importance and the work that they're doing,
Speaker 2: and also going to kids' schools and educating the younger
Speaker 2: gener to promote not what to do and to showcase
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 3: How to live in a better society and culturally too.
Speaker 2: So I just feel like it's great to see that
Speaker 2: there are more men out there like Hiventeranng, who I
Speaker 2: consider a brother from another mother, who sadly lost his
Speaker 2: sister Nikki to domestic violence. But I do feel like
Speaker 2: it's getting more and more common where men are speaking up.
Speaker 2: I just wish, obviously more men would take the courage
Speaker 2: to speak up and not feel like they're perceived as
Speaker 2: a specific persona of painting this picture on them. So
Speaker 2: I just want to continue to hopefully be I guess
Speaker 2: a voice in this space and trying to help others
Speaker 2: be inspired in that.
Speaker 1: For me, it was even incredible to see you speaking
Speaker 1: about domestic violence prevention and awareness on a football podcast
Speaker 1: like that is incredible progress in my eyes, because I
Speaker 1: don't think we would have seen something like that ten
Speaker 1: years ago. A football podcast with a predominantly male audio
Speaker 1: talking about violence against women and children. Like that alone,
Speaker 1: I think should be celebrated.
Speaker 3: Thank you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what I mean by the power like people
Speaker 2: don't really I think people do realize. But sports are
Speaker 2: very powerful, powerful thing in life, so that trying to
Speaker 2: use it for good and I think it's a really
Speaker 2: smart way of educating people, especially given the larger audience.
Speaker 2: Are men well not in the sane now because I
Speaker 2: feel like there's a lot more women's sports, which is
Speaker 2: amazing to see, but you know, it was predominantly a
Speaker 2: men's sport.
Speaker 3: So for speaking on that.
Speaker 2: I think it's really important and it just goes to
Speaker 2: show how we've changed over the last ten years as
Speaker 2: a society and hopefully continue to grow that moving forward.
Speaker 1: You mentioned a few times that you're about to become
Speaker 1: a father. That's definitely a new adventure, a new chapter
Speaker 1: you're about to step into. What kind of father are
Speaker 1: you hoping to be?
Speaker 3: I know it sounds cliche.
Speaker 2: I'm just trying to be the best best father I
Speaker 2: can be, as in the best humor in person too,
Speaker 2: So I just want I guess I'm emulating my mum
Speaker 2: in that by wanting my son and then hopefully with
Speaker 2: the second that whatever that may be, well, whenever that
Speaker 2: may be, I should say, just to treat them as
Speaker 2: a friend. I want them to feel comfortable to come
Speaker 2: to me through the good times and the bad, and
Speaker 2: not feel scared to come and talk to me in
Speaker 2: the time of need. So I just want to have
Speaker 2: that open, honest relationship with my son and kids, and
Speaker 2: I want them to feel safe and loved and know
Speaker 2: that we're always here for them no matter what.
Speaker 1: Is Pregnancy and preparing to become a dad. Is it
Speaker 1: making you reflect on everything you've been through and your
Speaker 1: childhood and your mom in a different light.
Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 2: I feel like it has shaped me, I guess to
Speaker 2: try and be the best person in show up.
Speaker 3: Every day for my wife and my family.
Speaker 2: But in saying that too, just give gives me the
Speaker 2: blueprint of how I want to, I guess, go with
Speaker 2: life with my family and to make them feel safe
Speaker 2: and comfortable. I'll be lying if I would say I'm
Speaker 2: not stressed and scared, because I am. But I feel
Speaker 2: like that's normal, but I'm really excited for the next
Speaker 2: chapter and excited to see what life will holds moving forward.
Speaker 2: I know it's going to be a bit of a
Speaker 2: rollercoaster and it's not going to be easy, but I'd
Speaker 2: like said life's not easy or perfect. But I'm just
Speaker 2: just going to write it and enjoy the enjoy the moment.
Speaker 1: And what's next for your next door? Are you going
Speaker 1: to have a bit of paternity leave there or what's
Speaker 1: what's your plans for the movement.
Speaker 3: I definitely need to take some time off.
Speaker 2: I think I think i'd also get in trouble from
Speaker 2: the wife if I don't. Look, I do want to
Speaker 2: take some time off because I do want to be present,
Speaker 2: especially during that early stage. I think it's going to
Speaker 2: probably be the most important time of needs, especially not
Speaker 2: just looking after my kid, but obviously helping my wife too,
Speaker 2: given that you know, she won't be able to probably
Speaker 2: move around as frequently after giving giving birth, So just
Speaker 2: trying to help her as much as I can and
Speaker 2: just enjoying the little moments I'm really looking forward to.
Speaker 2: So I definitely, yeah, will be taking some time off.
Speaker 2: In saying that, I know I'm fortunately I needed to
Speaker 2: still pay the bills because she'll be taking off some time,
Speaker 2: and because I work for myself, Unfortunately, I don't get
Speaker 2: the leave, so if I don't work, i won't get paid,
Speaker 2: but i'll definitely yeah be taking a few weeks off
Speaker 2: to enjoy that moment with them.
Speaker 1: Lastly, Daniel, what do you think your mum would think
Speaker 1: of everything you and your brother have built in her legacy.
Speaker 3: I feel like she'd be very very proud, and I
Speaker 3: don't know.
Speaker 2: I just feel like there are moments throughout specific occasions
Speaker 2: where I feel like her presence is right there, whether
Speaker 2: that's I even get some of the times away when
Speaker 2: we're taking photos at these occasions or events, I can
Speaker 2: see these lights that I shouldn't be there, and I
Speaker 2: feel like that's her being there, very happy and proud
Speaker 2: and showcasing to all her friends above, look at my son,
Speaker 2: look what he's doing, and kind of really being one
Speaker 2: of those mums that which you take for granted, where
Speaker 2: you're like, mums, stop stop embarrassing me. So I feel
Speaker 2: like she'd be very very proud, smiling from you to
Speaker 2: ear and obviously celebrating with.
Speaker 3: All my other loved ones above through all the milestones
Speaker 3: that we've achieved thus far and continue to do so.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Daniel for sharing your mum with
Speaker 1: us and sharing you with us. Thanks for joining.
Speaker 3: Us, no worries, Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1: Thank you to Daniel for joining us on this episode.
Speaker 1: You can find links to Yaya Nextdoor in our show notes.
Speaker 1: If you're experiencing family and domestic violence, Safe Steps provides
Speaker 1: immediate and confidential assistance. Thanks so much for listening. I'll
Speaker 1: be back next week with another true crime conversation