WEBVTT - Daniel Mancuso's Father Killed His Mother. The Grief Feels Different This Year. 0:00:02.840 --> 0:00:05.840 It's a cold July night in Melbourne in twenty thirteen, 0:00:06.240 --> 0:00:09.959 and an elderly couple here a woman screaming. It's nearing 0:00:09.960 --> 0:00:12.520 ten pm and the sounds are coming from the home 0:00:12.600 --> 0:00:16.360 next door. An older woman lives there. Her daughter moved 0:00:16.360 --> 0:00:18.800 in three years ago after an ugly divorce to an 0:00:18.840 --> 0:00:24.440 abusive man. She has two grown up sons. Quickly, Nina 0:00:24.520 --> 0:00:27.880 raises the alarm and police are called. When officers arrive, 0:00:28.480 --> 0:00:32.479 they find Teresa Mancuso in her parents' garage. She's been 0:00:32.560 --> 0:00:35.640 murdered in a crime they'll later describe to the public 0:00:35.880 --> 0:00:40.440 as vicious, cold blooded. As her sons are alerted and 0:00:40.520 --> 0:00:43.199 quickly rushed to the scene, there's no doubt in their 0:00:43.280 --> 0:00:47.600 mind who did it, but it'll be two excruciatingly long 0:00:47.680 --> 0:00:57.560 years before they see their dad arrested. I'm Jemma buff 0:00:57.680 --> 0:01:01.480 and you're listening to True Crime Conversations, a podcast exploring 0:01:01.480 --> 0:01:04.919 the world's most notorious crimes by speaking to the people 0:01:04.920 --> 0:01:08.080 who know the most about them. A warning to listeners, 0:01:08.319 --> 0:01:12.479 what happened to Teresa is horrific listening, but it's important 0:01:12.480 --> 0:01:16.000 to describe so you can understand the depravity of this crime. 0:01:16.319 --> 0:01:21.559 The violence, the rage. Theresa was stabbed at least sixteen 0:01:21.680 --> 0:01:25.200 times in the chest and abdomen, and suffered blunt force 0:01:25.280 --> 0:01:28.759 trauma to the head. She was fourty nine years old, 0:01:29.360 --> 0:01:31.800 her two boys were grown, and she'd been in the 0:01:31.840 --> 0:01:35.720 process of rebuilding her life after divorce. It was her 0:01:35.800 --> 0:01:39.240 chance to be happy after spending more than two decades 0:01:39.280 --> 0:01:43.520 in an abusive marriage, but her rex made that impossible. 0:01:44.040 --> 0:01:47.400 He openly threatened to kill her. He slut shamed her, 0:01:47.840 --> 0:01:51.280 he followed her and her boyfriend, abused her, frightened her, 0:01:51.760 --> 0:01:56.440 called her over and over again. Fernando Paulino made her 0:01:56.480 --> 0:02:00.680 life a living hell. When she died, the former couple 0:02:00.720 --> 0:02:03.480 were just weeks away from a court date to finalize 0:02:03.520 --> 0:02:07.320 the division of their assets, something he claimed he'd never 0:02:07.400 --> 0:02:11.560 let happen. While sentencing him to thirty years in prison, 0:02:12.200 --> 0:02:14.760 Justice Andrew Bell accused the fifty five year old of 0:02:14.800 --> 0:02:19.400 family violence of the most extreme kind. He described the 0:02:19.480 --> 0:02:22.680 murder he committed as a crime of jealousy, hatred, and 0:02:22.840 --> 0:02:25.960 rage by a man against a woman who just wanted 0:02:26.000 --> 0:02:29.720 to be equal, independent and free, or more simply just 0:02:29.800 --> 0:02:33.560 wanted to be It's a powerful sentencing document to read 0:02:33.680 --> 0:02:36.600 all these years later. In the current climate we still 0:02:36.639 --> 0:02:39.840 live in of extreme violence against women at the hands 0:02:39.840 --> 0:02:44.360 of current or former partners. Justice Bell is damning and 0:02:44.560 --> 0:02:49.720 angry and unforgiving. In his condemnation, he talks about Paulino 0:02:49.960 --> 0:02:53.440 depriving his own sons of a mother. Of the impressive 0:02:53.520 --> 0:02:56.440 young men he witnessed in court who have undergone a 0:02:56.520 --> 0:03:01.919 rite of passage far more difficult than most. Daniel, aged 0:03:01.919 --> 0:03:04.839 twenty seven and Luke aged twenty five at the time 0:03:04.880 --> 0:03:08.160 of the court proceedings, both gave evidence in the trial 0:03:08.919 --> 0:03:12.760 in twenty twenty six. They are strong advocates against men's 0:03:12.840 --> 0:03:17.680 violence against women. They speak openly and passionately about family 0:03:17.760 --> 0:03:22.079 violence prevention, and it's all thanks to their neighbor, well, 0:03:22.720 --> 0:03:26.079 their mum's neighbor, the woman who first raised the alarm, 0:03:26.520 --> 0:03:29.680 a Greek grandmother who adopted Daniel and Luke as her 0:03:29.760 --> 0:03:32.560 own after they moved into the house their mum died in, 0:03:33.520 --> 0:03:36.480 who fed them and loved them and showed them a 0:03:36.600 --> 0:03:39.720 kindness that has seen the boys create a social media 0:03:39.800 --> 0:03:44.600 movement turned business called Yaya next Door. Daniel joins us 0:03:44.680 --> 0:03:49.080 now to talk family violence, grief, the power of kindness, 0:03:49.480 --> 0:03:58.320 and his next venture, fatherhood. Daniel thank you for joining 0:03:58.400 --> 0:04:01.000 us on True Crime Conversation. I want to start with 0:04:01.000 --> 0:04:03.600 your mom. Can you tell us about her? Who was 0:04:03.640 --> 0:04:06.200 she and what was she passionate about in life? 0:04:06.840 --> 0:04:11.480 Well, she was just, simply to put it as that's 0:04:11.520 --> 0:04:15.119 the right word here, heartless soul where she always did 0:04:15.120 --> 0:04:18.839 everything for her kids. So she would literally do everything 0:04:18.880 --> 0:04:22.000 and anything for us, for Luke and I and her family. 0:04:23.000 --> 0:04:24.840 She would always, you know, if it was. 0:04:24.800 --> 0:04:27.800 A cold winter morning, I remember going to school, she 0:04:27.800 --> 0:04:29.640 would have our socks in front of the heat are 0:04:29.760 --> 0:04:32.200 so they're nice and warm for when we were to 0:04:32.200 --> 0:04:34.240 put it on our shoes and socks and ready to go. 0:04:35.240 --> 0:04:39.080 You know, she'd just supposedly we bought Cortalezi's with just 0:04:39.120 --> 0:04:43.320 snitzles in Italian and she ripped them up just for 0:04:43.360 --> 0:04:46.440 an after school snack. She would you pick us up 0:04:46.560 --> 0:04:48.840 at any time of the day or night if we 0:04:48.839 --> 0:04:51.279 were going out, she'd always want us to be getting 0:04:51.320 --> 0:04:54.240 home safe. But yeah, she was just a really beautiful 0:04:54.279 --> 0:04:58.120 soul who would do everything and anything for her friends 0:04:58.120 --> 0:05:00.880 and family. And I'm just lucky enough that I obviously 0:05:00.920 --> 0:05:05.160 got to experience quite a significant time with her, because 0:05:05.160 --> 0:05:07.960 I know other people in that circumstances might not get 0:05:08.040 --> 0:05:11.800 to have had experienced that much time, But I try 0:05:11.839 --> 0:05:14.920 and look at the positives and try and just think, well, 0:05:15.080 --> 0:05:17.240 I'm just blessed that I was able to have that 0:05:17.320 --> 0:05:20.960 time with her. And it is hard, I'm not going 0:05:21.040 --> 0:05:23.200 to lie, but especially now more than ever, when like 0:05:23.200 --> 0:05:26.600 I'm about to be a dad and achieving these other 0:05:26.920 --> 0:05:30.200 big milestones in my life. So having that and obviously 0:05:30.480 --> 0:05:35.240 getting married last year were quite really powerful times where 0:05:35.279 --> 0:05:37.040 I really wanted her to be there. 0:05:37.160 --> 0:05:40.000 But I know this should be there in spirit. 0:05:40.480 --> 0:05:43.480 I want listeners to understand a little bit about more 0:05:43.520 --> 0:05:46.840 behind the scenes, because from the outside, as a child, 0:05:46.920 --> 0:05:50.279 you had a nuclear looking family mum, dad, two kids, 0:05:50.680 --> 0:05:52.800 But what was happening behind the scenes that maybe the 0:05:52.920 --> 0:05:54.159 kids at school didn't know about. 0:05:54.400 --> 0:05:57.320 I just wish I had a bit more confidence and 0:05:58.040 --> 0:06:01.200 being open and honest with my friends. Like, don't get 0:06:01.200 --> 0:06:03.400 me wrong, there were probably the times where my friends 0:06:03.480 --> 0:06:07.160 knew some things or whether they heard my parents fighting 0:06:08.640 --> 0:06:09.880 just by yelling and stuff. 0:06:10.600 --> 0:06:11.800 But I just wish that. 0:06:11.800 --> 0:06:13.560 I kind of was a bit more open and honest 0:06:13.600 --> 0:06:17.320 with them, because I feel like you're also given that 0:06:17.400 --> 0:06:21.960 age you're kind of ashamed in retrospective where you feel 0:06:21.960 --> 0:06:25.440 like you want to be pictured as this perfect, loving family. 0:06:26.360 --> 0:06:28.320 So I wish I could just, you know, go back 0:06:28.360 --> 0:06:30.200 to my younger self and just tell him, you know, 0:06:30.240 --> 0:06:33.920 it's okay to speak up to friends and family and 0:06:34.400 --> 0:06:37.480 have that support, because for us, having that support around 0:06:37.600 --> 0:06:39.440 us meant everything. 0:06:40.920 --> 0:06:44.600 And I'd have my friends to today. 0:06:44.720 --> 0:06:47.480 I treat them like my own family, like I see 0:06:47.480 --> 0:06:50.159 them as my family, and I'm just grateful that I 0:06:50.200 --> 0:06:53.080 have such a great support network around me who. 0:06:53.040 --> 0:06:54.840 Have helped me through my hardest times. 0:06:55.839 --> 0:06:59.120 And you know, even when Mum passed away, like one 0:06:59.160 --> 0:07:01.680 of them would always be at the house every night 0:07:01.880 --> 0:07:05.440 or sleeping over just to make us feel more comfortable 0:07:06.240 --> 0:07:09.080 or try and distract us from obviously the hard times. 0:07:09.080 --> 0:07:10.400 At that point in time. 0:07:11.960 --> 0:07:15.960 It sounds like that kind of yelling and violence was 0:07:16.000 --> 0:07:21.480 a bit of an undercurrent throughout your whole childhood. In hindsight, 0:07:21.840 --> 0:07:26.040 witnessing that kind of stuff as a kid, what are 0:07:26.040 --> 0:07:29.560 the lasting impacts it had on how you grew into 0:07:29.600 --> 0:07:32.520 a man, how you kind of formed relationships when that's 0:07:32.560 --> 0:07:34.120 the relationship that you were watching. 0:07:35.040 --> 0:07:37.239 Yeah, look, it was quite hard for me at to start. 0:07:37.280 --> 0:07:40.800 I feel like to be in a relationship. I kind 0:07:40.800 --> 0:07:42.400 of was a bit scared because I wanted it to 0:07:42.440 --> 0:07:46.040 be a perfect relationship because I knew I'd seen my 0:07:46.120 --> 0:07:49.920 parents fighting. So for me growing up, I was always 0:07:50.000 --> 0:07:54.640 a bit scared in leading into a relationship or committing 0:07:54.800 --> 0:07:58.760 I should stay. But in saying that, I feel like 0:07:58.840 --> 0:08:02.080 I am again ending that negative into a positive where 0:08:02.120 --> 0:08:03.920 I've got the blueprint of a man that I don't 0:08:03.960 --> 0:08:06.440 want to be and what I want to be, especially 0:08:06.440 --> 0:08:08.080 being a father and having a family. 0:08:08.120 --> 0:08:10.440 Now I feel like it's. 0:08:10.320 --> 0:08:14.640 Again utilizing I guess what and what not to do 0:08:15.280 --> 0:08:17.600 is kind of what a how I'm approaching this now. 0:08:17.960 --> 0:08:21.040 Your parents separated in twenty ten, so by then you 0:08:21.080 --> 0:08:24.040 and your brother were late teens, early twenties, you'd kind 0:08:24.040 --> 0:08:28.400 of you know you were men. Did you welcome that separation? 0:08:28.560 --> 0:08:30.400 Was that something that you'd been hoping would happen? 0:08:30.720 --> 0:08:33.920 Well at the start, obviously being younger, we were obviously 0:08:34.160 --> 0:08:36.600 hoping that they didn't break up, But it wasn't into 0:08:36.880 --> 0:08:40.720 a bit more in our teenage years and where we 0:08:40.880 --> 0:08:43.120 accepted it and wanted it to happen because we were 0:08:43.160 --> 0:08:45.079 just sick and tired of them fighting, and at the 0:08:45.160 --> 0:08:47.000 end of the day, we actually just wanted them to 0:08:47.040 --> 0:08:50.480 both be happy, and we felt like, you know, they 0:08:50.800 --> 0:08:52.920 got to a point where they didn't seem that. 0:08:53.160 --> 0:08:54.880 So it wasn't until. 0:08:54.679 --> 0:08:59.200 Our later life where we wanted them to separate and 0:08:59.240 --> 0:09:02.400 we felt final relieved to some degree where they were 0:09:03.000 --> 0:09:07.720 broken up, but then obviously things continue to escalate behind 0:09:07.760 --> 0:09:12.400 the scenes, and yeah, it's just obviously sad that obviously 0:09:12.440 --> 0:09:15.680 it had to be the way it ended up. But yeah, 0:09:15.720 --> 0:09:18.400 it was one of those times where you you wanted 0:09:18.400 --> 0:09:20.880 it to happen because you just really got sick and 0:09:20.920 --> 0:09:23.280 tired of them arguing and living in a household where it. 0:09:23.200 --> 0:09:23.840 Felt like that. 0:09:24.120 --> 0:09:27.480 So you were hopeful that by leaving your mom would 0:09:27.480 --> 0:09:29.680 be able to move on and have a happy life. 0:09:30.240 --> 0:09:33.200 And that's just not what ended up happening. 0:09:33.720 --> 0:09:34.560 No, that's right. 0:09:34.960 --> 0:09:37.680 Your mom did everything right in terms of, you know, 0:09:37.720 --> 0:09:40.480 the protections offered to her by the police and everything 0:09:40.520 --> 0:09:44.240 she got an abo, she was telling the police what happened. 0:09:44.960 --> 0:09:47.640 When you look back, what else could she have done 0:09:47.920 --> 0:09:50.719 really to have helped herself. This feels like she did 0:09:50.760 --> 0:09:52.959 everything in the system that's there for her. 0:09:53.320 --> 0:09:53.720 Correct. 0:09:53.760 --> 0:09:56.679 She literally did everything that you kind of follow She 0:09:56.840 --> 0:10:00.520 was lodging when you know a certain stance would come, 0:10:00.559 --> 0:10:04.600 whether that's phone calls or confronting her face to face, 0:10:05.160 --> 0:10:11.240 going to the police station, filing reports and all that 0:10:11.320 --> 0:10:14.120 kind of stuff that goes with that. But obviously it 0:10:14.200 --> 0:10:18.120 wasn't It wasn't enough, and sadly obviously ended the way 0:10:18.160 --> 0:10:23.040 it did. So I just don't know how we as 0:10:23.080 --> 0:10:25.920 a society can change. I feel like, personally, there needs 0:10:25.960 --> 0:10:29.839 to be harsher penalties so people can really understand if 0:10:29.880 --> 0:10:34.320 they do these actions, this is the repercussions, because I 0:10:34.320 --> 0:10:36.760 feel like she did everything in her power to do 0:10:36.800 --> 0:10:39.240 the right thing, to move on with her life, to 0:10:39.280 --> 0:10:42.720 live a happier life and to start fresh with even 0:10:42.840 --> 0:10:44.719 like a new job and everything like that. But then 0:10:44.720 --> 0:10:47.840 obviously things obviously didn't turn that way. 0:10:48.080 --> 0:10:50.200 Did you ever think though that your mum's life would 0:10:50.200 --> 0:10:51.680 be in danger, that it would go that far? 0:10:52.679 --> 0:10:56.880 Look, to be honest, there were threats made during their relationship. 0:10:57.600 --> 0:11:00.760 I'm not going to lie about that, but I didn't 0:11:00.760 --> 0:11:03.760 think ever in my wildest dreams that this would result 0:11:03.920 --> 0:11:05.920 to the way it did, where she slowly passed away 0:11:05.960 --> 0:11:09.720 and now my father's in prison. So yeah, I never, 0:11:09.920 --> 0:11:12.880 in my wildest dreams figured that that would end up 0:11:12.960 --> 0:11:15.720 to be that way, but obviously, yeah, it's here we 0:11:15.720 --> 0:11:17.560 are today obviously talking about this matter. 0:11:19.160 --> 0:11:22.040 Well, it was three years after their separation that your 0:11:22.080 --> 0:11:28.320 mum lost her life. How do you remember finding out 0:11:28.320 --> 0:11:30.320 about that news and where were you? 0:11:31.240 --> 0:11:33.120 Yeah, I remember like it was yesterday. 0:11:34.360 --> 0:11:38.480 We had a dinner at mynna's house where we obviously 0:11:38.520 --> 0:11:43.920 were living with the next doors story, but we had 0:11:43.920 --> 0:11:46.560 a dinner there or sorry, we had a dinner at 0:11:46.559 --> 0:11:49.600 my aunt's house had got moved there, and then we 0:11:49.600 --> 0:11:53.720 were there, and then we came back home, and I 0:11:53.920 --> 0:11:57.559 found it quite strange because I got harrim and all 0:11:57.600 --> 0:12:00.560 the lights were on in the house, the tea was on, 0:12:01.080 --> 0:12:04.920 lasting loud, and I just thought, this is really strange 0:12:04.920 --> 0:12:07.480 because my dad would normally have you know, the lights on, 0:12:08.080 --> 0:12:10.920 sorry off, and have maybe some lights on to make 0:12:10.960 --> 0:12:13.760 it feel like someone's home, never have the TV on, 0:12:14.800 --> 0:12:16.480 especially blasting that loud. 0:12:16.679 --> 0:12:18.320 And then I just. 0:12:18.320 --> 0:12:21.600 Clicked in my mind where we quickly were very fast 0:12:21.640 --> 0:12:25.240 on it, where we were contacting my brother. My brother 0:12:25.280 --> 0:12:28.640 went out after that, because I just got home and 0:12:29.240 --> 0:12:31.200 went to have a shower and get ready for bed. 0:12:32.320 --> 0:12:34.360 But then I made the calls and then was a 0:12:34.360 --> 0:12:36.720 domino effect of my brother, but then call my mom, 0:12:36.760 --> 0:12:39.120 and then I would try and call my dad. Then 0:12:39.120 --> 0:12:41.640 we'd try and call, you know, both our aunties on 0:12:41.679 --> 0:12:44.400 my mom's side on my dad's side, and then obviously 0:12:44.440 --> 0:12:46.800 nothing was heard from either, and it was really strange 0:12:46.880 --> 0:12:50.360 that either of our parents weren't answering the phone. Normally, 0:12:50.520 --> 0:12:53.520 my mom would answer straight away, especially seeing us call 0:12:54.120 --> 0:12:56.400 and say with my dad he had his phone and 0:12:57.040 --> 0:12:59.840 clipped to his belt, even he was a tradee So 0:13:00.080 --> 0:13:03.920 it was just really unusual that another man's it all 0:13:03.920 --> 0:13:06.800 within a specific time frame not calling us back. And 0:13:06.840 --> 0:13:09.760 then it wasn't until our beautiful Naven next door ye 0:13:11.320 --> 0:13:14.960 heard yelling, which then she raised the awareness and called 0:13:14.960 --> 0:13:18.240 my auntie because she had her number, so she called 0:13:18.240 --> 0:13:22.439 her and then my uncle went to the house and 0:13:22.440 --> 0:13:26.520 that's when obviously they found her, and then everything I 0:13:26.720 --> 0:13:30.480 followed after that, and then I remember driving to the 0:13:30.600 --> 0:13:33.040 reservoir because I'm like, I'll just go and see if 0:13:33.080 --> 0:13:37.400 she's okay and see if she was there. And then 0:13:37.480 --> 0:13:39.560 as I was getting closer to the house, I got 0:13:39.559 --> 0:13:41.600 a phone call Saint Daniel, don't go to the house. 0:13:41.679 --> 0:13:42.559 Don't go to the house. 0:13:42.679 --> 0:13:45.480 Come to come to my aunties and then I just 0:13:45.520 --> 0:13:47.720 saw all these cop cars at the front, and then 0:13:47.800 --> 0:13:50.720 I thought the worst. And then it wasn't until we 0:13:50.800 --> 0:13:53.520 walked in there and we heard the news and I. 0:13:53.520 --> 0:13:54.400 Just remember. 0:13:55.559 --> 0:14:01.400 Obviously just breaking down and kind of everything else after 0:14:01.480 --> 0:14:02.520 that was a bit of a blur. 0:14:02.960 --> 0:14:05.240 It didn't feel real. It was like a dream. 0:14:05.320 --> 0:14:08.120 And then throughout that whole night, I think it were 0:14:08.200 --> 0:14:12.640 there at the cops station till six am that whole night, 0:14:13.559 --> 0:14:18.560 having obviously discussions on our movements and not say we'll 0:14:18.720 --> 0:14:21.720 getting lectured like we were the people that did it, 0:14:21.760 --> 0:14:24.640 but they were just trying to obviously put together a story. 0:14:25.720 --> 0:14:28.200 So I was very tiring and long process. And then 0:14:28.320 --> 0:14:31.120 they had to take our clothes and they were wearing too, 0:14:31.160 --> 0:14:34.760 and yeah, then we just went back to my aunties 0:14:34.800 --> 0:14:37.200 and then I remember we had family and friends visit 0:14:37.560 --> 0:14:39.040 and I was just so out of it. 0:14:39.080 --> 0:14:39.880 I hadn't slept for. 0:14:39.840 --> 0:14:42.880 Like nearly two days, and it was just just a 0:14:42.960 --> 0:14:44.680 very emotional and training experience. 0:14:45.600 --> 0:14:47.320 Thank you for telling us that, Daniel. I know it's 0:14:47.320 --> 0:14:52.080 hard to relive that just logistics wise. You were living 0:14:52.200 --> 0:14:54.120 at your dad's house at the time, so did you 0:14:54.600 --> 0:14:57.880 And then you moved in into your mother living. 0:14:58.320 --> 0:15:02.560 With our father, Luke and I. For me, it was 0:15:02.640 --> 0:15:07.160 just more for work purposes. And then Luik, obviously we 0:15:07.160 --> 0:15:10.480 were both live in here and he was doing schooling 0:15:10.560 --> 0:15:14.120 or finishing school or uni, I can't remember now. It 0:15:14.200 --> 0:15:18.680 was like a lifetime ago and we were molso living here, 0:15:19.240 --> 0:15:21.560 not because we wanted to, It was more also to 0:15:21.640 --> 0:15:23.760 keep an eye on our dad. We felt like it 0:15:23.800 --> 0:15:27.560 was a bit safer to have that extra eye on him, 0:15:27.640 --> 0:15:29.320 whereas in an idea. 0:15:29.000 --> 0:15:31.280 Where we were moved in with our mom in a heartbeat. 0:15:32.440 --> 0:15:34.760 But we just felt like it was probably the wisest 0:15:34.760 --> 0:15:37.320 thing to do to keep an eye on him. And 0:15:37.360 --> 0:15:39.840 also I felt like if we had moved in with 0:15:39.880 --> 0:15:42.600 our mom, he probably would have got more upset and angry, 0:15:43.640 --> 0:15:45.720 which is sad to say, but we just tried to 0:15:45.800 --> 0:15:48.560 make it with what the best possible outcome is for 0:15:48.640 --> 0:15:51.600 all parties at the end of the day. So yeah, 0:15:51.600 --> 0:15:54.880 that's obviously how our living arrangements were at the time. 0:15:54.920 --> 0:15:57.280 And then obviously once my mom passed away, we were 0:15:57.320 --> 0:15:59.760 living with my auntie and they just had bought a house. 0:15:59.760 --> 0:16:02.480 That's so lucky the house was big enough to fit 0:16:02.600 --> 0:16:05.800 us in I mean, it wasn't ideal, like I had 0:16:05.800 --> 0:16:08.320 to share a room with my brother in our early twenties, 0:16:08.360 --> 0:16:10.440 which we'd never had shared a room in our life 0:16:10.680 --> 0:16:14.320 because we're lucky enough to have our own bedroom. By 0:16:14.320 --> 0:16:15.880 the Yeah, we're there for two years, and then we 0:16:15.880 --> 0:16:19.120 built the courage up to move back. Our mum sadly 0:16:19.160 --> 0:16:23.600 passed away, which was a really hard decision, but I'm 0:16:23.680 --> 0:16:27.360 kind of grateful we did because obviously then we wouldn't 0:16:27.360 --> 0:16:33.640 have this beautiful relationship with our neighbor, and obviously wouldn't 0:16:33.680 --> 0:16:36.640 be here today talking to you on this podcast. 0:16:36.680 --> 0:16:38.120 So it was very hard. 0:16:38.200 --> 0:16:41.400 But you know, we didn't move into the for a while, 0:16:41.440 --> 0:16:44.760 and we didn't even walk into the garage for six 0:16:44.800 --> 0:16:47.840 months when we were living there. At the time, it 0:16:47.880 --> 0:16:50.200 was just a band. We just left it there with 0:16:50.240 --> 0:16:54.680 all the boxes. But then again, lucky we had our 0:16:54.720 --> 0:16:57.760 friends that would come and constantly visit or stay over, 0:16:58.560 --> 0:17:01.000 and we had an annual tradition every Thursday we had 0:17:01.000 --> 0:17:04.800 friends coming over to play cards, to watch the footy, 0:17:05.920 --> 0:17:09.399 have some food or coffees, and playing table tennis and 0:17:09.440 --> 0:17:13.800 other games and basketball. So we kind of felt a 0:17:13.840 --> 0:17:16.359 bit safer because again it was hard for us to 0:17:16.440 --> 0:17:19.480 move in because our father wasn't arrested for quite a 0:17:19.520 --> 0:17:22.600 few years prior to that, so we're kind of living 0:17:22.640 --> 0:17:27.280 in constant fear if you come, come back. And then 0:17:27.320 --> 0:17:31.000 we had at times telling him to telling us to 0:17:31.040 --> 0:17:34.880 come and visit him, to come back to live with him, 0:17:34.920 --> 0:17:38.160 which was really hard because straight away when mum passed away, 0:17:38.160 --> 0:17:42.679 we knew who done it, but we had to respect 0:17:42.760 --> 0:17:44.680 what the police did and just say, look, keep an 0:17:44.680 --> 0:17:45.640 open mind. We know. 0:17:47.080 --> 0:17:48.439 What you think the. 0:17:48.280 --> 0:17:51.200 Case may be, but you kind of just got to 0:17:51.200 --> 0:17:54.840 to be like that way given that they've experienced this before. 0:17:55.000 --> 0:17:59.320 So we were just quite blunt with our responses and 0:17:59.520 --> 0:18:01.280 it was very he That was probably one of the 0:18:01.320 --> 0:18:04.520 hardest times too, during that time, where he was arrested 0:18:05.560 --> 0:18:07.760 and not knowing if we were next door, he would 0:18:07.760 --> 0:18:11.119 come to try and confront us. So yeah, it was 0:18:11.160 --> 0:18:13.520 really hard, but again we were just lucky that we 0:18:13.600 --> 0:18:17.800 had a beautiful neighbor next door and obviously our amazing friends. 0:18:17.480 --> 0:18:21.760 Around up next. Daniel shares how he and his brother 0:18:22.080 --> 0:18:25.199 endured the court case that followed their mum's murder and 0:18:25.240 --> 0:18:29.040 what it was like confronting their dad. It was an 0:18:29.080 --> 0:18:33.240 excruciating wait for you two years from until he was arrested. 0:18:33.280 --> 0:18:35.680 I'm assuming the police were just trying to gather evidence, 0:18:35.680 --> 0:18:38.000 but that doesn't make it any easier for you. And 0:18:38.040 --> 0:18:41.040 then you go through the court process and there isn't 0:18:41.040 --> 0:18:44.320 a sentencing until twenty seventeen, so that's another few years. 0:18:44.640 --> 0:18:47.960 How did you find that whole process of court and 0:18:48.480 --> 0:18:52.480 sentencing and you gave evidence once that was all finally over. 0:18:53.000 --> 0:18:56.800 Yeah, well, it was definitely one of the hardest priets. 0:18:56.840 --> 0:18:58.960 Obviously here in the news about my mom passing away. 0:18:58.960 --> 0:19:00.680 It was probably the hardest thing I'm about to do 0:19:00.720 --> 0:19:05.000 in my life. I don't wish it upon anybody having 0:19:05.040 --> 0:19:08.360 to experience being in a court with your dad kind 0:19:08.400 --> 0:19:11.800 of confronting and being open and eyes in front of 0:19:12.040 --> 0:19:17.760 strangers and reporters, hearing our story and our family upbringing, 0:19:19.240 --> 0:19:21.920 and then obviously having him shouting out like his innocent 0:19:22.040 --> 0:19:24.200 and the stuff like that. So it was really really 0:19:24.240 --> 0:19:27.720 hard and challenging, and it just felt like it was 0:19:27.760 --> 0:19:31.280 a lifetime because it did go on for a very 0:19:31.280 --> 0:19:31.800 long time. 0:19:31.880 --> 0:19:33.680 It was one of the longer. 0:19:33.480 --> 0:19:37.560 Processes of being in that court with that court case, 0:19:38.720 --> 0:19:40.640 so it did go on for a very long time, 0:19:40.720 --> 0:19:45.120 and it just sucks because it had to again enough 0:19:45.160 --> 0:19:48.760 evidence to kind of build up this case and obviously 0:19:48.840 --> 0:19:49.919 make it a strong case. 0:19:50.119 --> 0:19:52.960 So then hopefully he doesn't, you know, have a shorter sentence. 0:19:54.240 --> 0:19:57.920 Everyone knew it was him, but. 0:19:57.920 --> 0:19:59.720 Yeah, it was. It's a very hard process. 0:19:59.760 --> 0:20:03.480 And I still remember to this day, I'm speaking to 0:20:03.480 --> 0:20:07.080 Tony Harwood, who was the detective with our case, and 0:20:08.080 --> 0:20:10.160 I needed to I needed a break and I needed 0:20:10.200 --> 0:20:13.679 to get away. So I went away in twenty fifteen 0:20:13.760 --> 0:20:17.080 to Europe with my friends, and I said at the time, 0:20:17.080 --> 0:20:18.800 I'm like, are you sure this is okay for me 0:20:18.880 --> 0:20:21.639 to go? Like, I know, I really need to go 0:20:21.840 --> 0:20:26.000 just for my mental clarity and health, but I'm more 0:20:26.040 --> 0:20:29.000 so mindful that could he be arrested or do I 0:20:29.040 --> 0:20:31.359 need to be here for all this kind of extra 0:20:31.440 --> 0:20:32.800 stuff that could arise. 0:20:33.800 --> 0:20:35.200 And he said, no, no, that's fine. 0:20:35.280 --> 0:20:38.840 You go, You'll be all fine, nothing, nothing should kind 0:20:38.880 --> 0:20:41.240 of happen while you're away. And then I still remember 0:20:41.440 --> 0:20:44.240 we were on their midst or end of our Kentigui 0:20:44.359 --> 0:20:49.679 trip in Greece and I get flooded with messages on 0:20:49.720 --> 0:20:53.360 my phone saying are you okay? And had all these 0:20:53.400 --> 0:20:57.280 calls and messages and digging, like shit, what's what's happened? 0:20:57.320 --> 0:20:59.880 Like as my lord the past away, I just thought 0:20:59.920 --> 0:21:03.879 of something completely off, off topic or off off the 0:21:03.920 --> 0:21:05.679 whole perspective. 0:21:05.080 --> 0:21:05.959 Of what was going on. 0:21:06.040 --> 0:21:08.879 And then it wasn't until I spoke to some family 0:21:08.880 --> 0:21:11.800 and then saw all the news articles and stuff where 0:21:11.800 --> 0:21:16.120 it to my dad had been arrested. So it was crazy. 0:21:17.119 --> 0:21:18.800 And then I'm like, well, would you like me to 0:21:18.840 --> 0:21:22.520 fly back home? And given everything that happened and I'm 0:21:22.560 --> 0:21:25.480 not really familiar with this whole process, and then they said, no, 0:21:25.680 --> 0:21:28.840 finish your trip off, enjoy your time off, and when 0:21:28.840 --> 0:21:31.040 you get back, will will work it all out. 0:21:31.160 --> 0:21:33.720 So could you enjoy the rest of your trip? After 0:21:33.760 --> 0:21:35.920 hearing something like that, knowing your brother was back home 0:21:35.960 --> 0:21:36.679 as well, it. 0:21:36.920 --> 0:21:40.240 Was very hard, but as bad as it sounds, it 0:21:40.280 --> 0:21:42.600 was a relief because I knew he was arrested, so 0:21:43.280 --> 0:21:47.960 like it was in some perspective at least a lead 0:21:48.000 --> 0:21:50.040 in the right direction, a step in the right direction, 0:21:50.119 --> 0:21:50.680 I should say. 0:21:52.240 --> 0:21:55.639 So it was hard, but I feel like too, it. 0:21:57.440 --> 0:21:59.879 Was amazing to hear because it was just like, Okay, 0:22:00.040 --> 0:22:04.640