WEBVTT - What Supercommunicators Know That We Don't 0:00:10.622 --> 0:00:13.342 You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast. 0:00:13.822 --> 0:00:17.182 Mama Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters 0:00:17.222 --> 0:00:18.782 that this podcast is recorded on. 0:00:20.741 --> 0:00:24.701 When you're looking at mastering effective communication, there are three 0:00:25.142 --> 0:00:29.261 different fundamental types of conversations that occur in every interaction, 0:00:29.422 --> 0:00:33.382 right and the biggest chance of miscommunication is when one 0:00:33.382 --> 0:00:36.222 person thinks they're having one type of conversation and someone 0:00:36.222 --> 0:00:38.622 else thinks they're having another. As I was prepping for 0:00:38.781 --> 0:00:41.622 the show and reading about this, I was having a 0:00:41.662 --> 0:00:44.942 text argument with someone. It was a man, and he 0:00:44.982 --> 0:00:45.982 thought we were having a. 0:00:46.062 --> 0:00:48.702 Practical, practical conversation and emotional conversation. 0:00:48.822 --> 0:00:51.902 And then I realized in the course of the conversation 0:00:51.982 --> 0:00:54.822 that I was having an emotional conversation about how I feel. 0:01:00.062 --> 0:01:02.542 Hello, and welcome to Mom and Mia out Loud and 0:01:02.582 --> 0:01:05.062 to our Friday show, where you know, we don't do news. 0:01:05.182 --> 0:01:08.542 We just do talking. Nothing from the outside is breaking 0:01:08.542 --> 0:01:12.862 into our bubble. Today is also a public holiday, of course, 0:01:12.902 --> 0:01:14.862 it's an Zac Day, but we thought we would do 0:01:14.902 --> 0:01:17.462 an episode for you anyway, because you might have been 0:01:17.582 --> 0:01:19.462 up since really early at the dawn service. You might 0:01:19.502 --> 0:01:21.822 be baking anzac Vicki's. You might just be going to 0:01:21.862 --> 0:01:23.742 the beach, but yeah, what you deserved them. 0:01:23.862 --> 0:01:26.262 You might have the day off. There are some hard 0:01:26.302 --> 0:01:28.342 working out ladders who are working today a lot. 0:01:29.182 --> 0:01:30.622 But anyway, we digress. 0:01:30.662 --> 0:01:33.581 I'm Holly wayIn right, I'm Mere Friedman, and I'm Jesse Stevens. 0:01:33.702 --> 0:01:36.902 And on today's show, when was the last time you 0:01:37.022 --> 0:01:40.021 cried in front of someone else? And would you tell 0:01:40.142 --> 0:01:43.702 a complete stranger the answer to that question? Welcome to 0:01:43.742 --> 0:01:47.262 the list of magic questions, which are shortcuts to connection, 0:01:47.662 --> 0:01:50.542 plus one of the twenty five lip products in my handbag, 0:01:50.782 --> 0:01:53.542 a book and an article about a cosmetic procedure you've 0:01:53.582 --> 0:01:57.662 likely never heard of, its recommendations, and our best and worst, 0:01:57.662 --> 0:02:01.062 which include camping, nicoles, a family sick fest, and Nana singing. 0:02:01.422 --> 0:02:03.222 But first, Mere Friedman, in. 0:02:03.142 --> 0:02:06.262 Case you missed it, being polite to your chat GPT 0:02:06.542 --> 0:02:10.221 bot could be doing some damage to the world. This 0:02:10.302 --> 0:02:13.181 is confusing news for everyone who uses phrases like please 0:02:13.742 --> 0:02:16.262 and thank you when they talk to an AI tool 0:02:16.341 --> 0:02:19.462 like chat GPT. I do I always say please. 0:02:19.302 --> 0:02:20.702 Me too, I'm told to do it. 0:02:20.782 --> 0:02:23.782 I don't really say thank you. But what it does 0:02:23.902 --> 0:02:26.942 is that it increases the amount of energy required to 0:02:27.062 --> 0:02:31.182 process whatever you've asked the chatbot to do. That's what 0:02:31.342 --> 0:02:34.142 Sam Altman, who is the boss of Open Ai, has 0:02:34.181 --> 0:02:36.502 said this week when someone asked him about the electricity 0:02:36.502 --> 0:02:40.062 that powers AI and all the energy required, and he 0:02:40.181 --> 0:02:43.542 said that politeness increases costs for his company by tens 0:02:43.542 --> 0:02:46.502 of millions of dollars per year. Now, for those not 0:02:46.582 --> 0:02:48.742 yet using AI, you can do all sorts of things 0:02:48.822 --> 0:02:51.302 for free, so it doesn't cost you directly to say 0:02:51.342 --> 0:02:53.862 please and thank you in case you're wondering, and it 0:02:53.902 --> 0:02:57.062 doesn't change the accuracy or the quality of the results 0:02:57.102 --> 0:02:59.382 that you get. It just means that the computer has 0:02:59.422 --> 0:03:01.822 to think a bit harder before answering you. 0:03:02.222 --> 0:03:04.742 So just about extra words or is it about those words? 0:03:04.782 --> 0:03:05.422 In particular? 0:03:05.622 --> 0:03:09.501 It's about extra words and phrases, and it has to 0:03:09.862 --> 0:03:11.982 be polite back to you. Now, there are two reasons 0:03:11.982 --> 0:03:15.022 why people tend to use thank you and please if 0:03:15.062 --> 0:03:18.822 they do. The first is ethically because it's a robot, 0:03:18.902 --> 0:03:21.062 but maybe we don't want to be mean to the robots. 0:03:21.342 --> 0:03:23.902 And the second is just in case the robots take over, 0:03:24.622 --> 0:03:26.702 we want to, you know, fitting good with them. 0:03:26.822 --> 0:03:30.462 Reason I would say is that it is about setting 0:03:30.502 --> 0:03:33.781 a precedent if you get into the habit of barking orders, 0:03:33.782 --> 0:03:37.022 which I have found with my Siri, with my like 0:03:37.102 --> 0:03:38.782 all of the things that I tell to do things. 0:03:39.142 --> 0:03:41.422 And I think, firstly, I don't want my daughter just 0:03:41.462 --> 0:03:45.502 hearing me yell orders at things all the time. And secondly, 0:03:45.982 --> 0:03:50.582 if I speak to something that is serving me like that, yeah, 0:03:50.742 --> 0:03:53.502 then how long until it bleeds into the workplace where 0:03:53.822 --> 0:03:57.062 you know your boss is speaking to the assistant with 0:03:57.182 --> 0:03:58.382 the same level of. 0:03:58.542 --> 0:04:00.702 Oh, you talk to someone in the service industry. 0:04:00.382 --> 0:04:02.062 Exactly, real human without a please and think. 0:04:02.142 --> 0:04:04.742 But then I was also told, and maybe this isn't true, 0:04:04.782 --> 0:04:07.822 but when we have had a training and things is 0:04:07.862 --> 0:04:10.342 that if you're polite to it, it will be polite 0:04:10.382 --> 0:04:11.862 to you, which is the same aunt in the world, 0:04:11.982 --> 0:04:13.942 right karma. You put out what you want to get back, 0:04:14.382 --> 0:04:17.142 and so I don't want my robot to shout at 0:04:17.181 --> 0:04:17.662 me no. 0:04:17.702 --> 0:04:20.541 But it takes more energy, so it uses up more 0:04:20.702 --> 0:04:24.061 energy and the cost of energy. Obviously, the energy required 0:04:24.101 --> 0:04:29.342 to process all of the AI queries is powered by electricity, which. 0:04:29.301 --> 0:04:31.662 And Holly, you're onto something, because there actually was a 0:04:31.702 --> 0:04:34.942 study that found they had people all across the world 0:04:34.981 --> 0:04:37.222 because manners are very different in different countries, there are 0:04:37.222 --> 0:04:40.101 different versions of please and thank you, and they found 0:04:40.181 --> 0:04:43.621 that you got thirty percent worse results without manners. So 0:04:43.902 --> 0:04:48.062 you're on chat GPT whatever it is. They will omit information. 0:04:48.662 --> 0:04:52.101 Sometimes there are errors, like apparently you get better results 0:04:52.101 --> 0:04:52.581 if you speak. 0:04:52.702 --> 0:04:56.301 That's finally what chat GPT told me. I did some 0:04:56.381 --> 0:04:59.382 research this morning and it said it will not affect 0:04:59.462 --> 0:05:02.181 the quality. It does talk back to you. However, you 0:05:02.301 --> 0:05:06.261 talk to it so like I've trained mine that it'll 0:05:06.301 --> 0:05:09.981 just be I'll be like, thanks, that's an awesome answer. 0:05:10.181 --> 0:05:12.621 Could you try doing it with a little bit more 0:05:12.621 --> 0:05:16.181 brevity or in bullet points, and then it'll go thanks 0:05:16.222 --> 0:05:19.981 so much for your detailed feedback. That's amazing, And it's like, 0:05:20.142 --> 0:05:22.981 are you feel cool? Like it's I think so much 0:05:23.022 --> 0:05:25.381 of what people are scared about with AI is that 0:05:25.462 --> 0:05:29.062 it's so dehumanized, and it is because you are actually 0:05:29.061 --> 0:05:32.301 talking to people and things that don't exist. But by 0:05:32.342 --> 0:05:34.541 making it as human as possible, I don't know. 0:05:34.861 --> 0:05:38.781 So res Altman suggesting that we should stop saying please 0:05:38.821 --> 0:05:41.022 and thank you, because he's like, if you're worried about 0:05:41.022 --> 0:05:43.662 the environmental impacts of AI, then the way to deal 0:05:43.662 --> 0:05:45.501 with it is short and to the point. 0:05:45.782 --> 0:05:48.782 Not really, he was more tongue in cheek. It's costing 0:05:48.861 --> 0:05:52.061 us a lot of money more, but it's worth it 0:05:52.101 --> 0:05:54.541 if it means that the world is being populated by 0:05:54.902 --> 0:05:57.222 better manners. I will bear that cost. 0:05:57.342 --> 0:05:59.541 This is the most Silicon Valley, just telling us that 0:05:59.621 --> 0:06:03.301 it's less efficient to be polite. That's where Silicon Valley 0:06:03.381 --> 0:06:03.862 leads us. 0:06:03.941 --> 0:06:06.541 I like MEA's theory that we're playing the long game 0:06:06.621 --> 0:06:08.782 and we have to be nice to our future over lords. 0:06:08.861 --> 0:06:10.301 Like they're keeping a list somewhere. 0:06:10.381 --> 0:06:11.781 They'd be like me is the one who. 0:06:11.621 --> 0:06:15.181 Always says that thanks, great job. She complimented my outfit. 0:06:16.381 --> 0:06:19.822 How do I become a super communicator? You know those 0:06:19.861 --> 0:06:23.061 people who can talk to just about anyone about anything, 0:06:23.181 --> 0:06:26.261 and not just small talk. They find themselves in deep, 0:06:26.541 --> 0:06:31.461 interesting conversations with strangers. Apparently there is a name for 0:06:31.541 --> 0:06:35.461 these people, and they are super communicators, and any of 0:06:35.541 --> 0:06:39.181 us can become one with the right training. A new 0:06:39.181 --> 0:06:43.902 podcast by Charles Dowig called super Communicators explores the science 0:06:43.941 --> 0:06:47.101 of connection and offers very practical advice on how to 0:06:47.142 --> 0:06:50.862 have more interesting and fulfilling conversations. Here's a little bit 0:06:50.902 --> 0:06:51.702 of that podcast. 0:06:52.022 --> 0:06:54.181 The next time you're on an airplane or on a bus, 0:06:54.342 --> 0:06:56.701 or you're at a party, or you're making small talk 0:06:56.741 --> 0:07:00.421 with someone, turn to them and ask them a deep question. 0:07:01.262 --> 0:07:02.822 And you might think to yourself, this is going to 0:07:02.861 --> 0:07:05.741 be weird, it's going to be really awkward. But I 0:07:05.741 --> 0:07:08.101 think what you'll find is that if you ask a 0:07:08.181 --> 0:07:12.021 question with genuine curiosity, the other person is delighted to 0:07:12.062 --> 0:07:15.222 answer it, and then you should ask another question and 0:07:15.262 --> 0:07:18.782 share something about yourself and then eventually ask them, so, 0:07:18.902 --> 0:07:22.102 just out of curiosity, when's the last time you cried 0:07:22.142 --> 0:07:23.302 in front of another person. 0:07:24.142 --> 0:07:27.581 Central to this is something called magical questions. They have 0:07:27.662 --> 0:07:32.102 been studied and determined by psychologists to increase intimacy between 0:07:32.142 --> 0:07:35.462 two people. And at the most basic level, it means 0:07:35.462 --> 0:07:37.222 that you meet someone right and you just have a 0:07:37.262 --> 0:07:38.422 chat and they go, I'm a teacher. 0:07:38.782 --> 0:07:38.942 Now. 0:07:38.982 --> 0:07:41.062 The logical next question for a lot of people would 0:07:41.062 --> 0:07:43.461 be what school, what year, what long have you been 0:07:43.742 --> 0:07:45.502 how long have you been a teacher? Exactly? And we 0:07:45.582 --> 0:07:48.781 know that they're like more close questions, and the advice 0:07:48.862 --> 0:07:51.941 here is that your next question should be why what 0:07:52.062 --> 0:07:53.062 made you go into teaching? 0:07:53.381 --> 0:07:56.342 I would feel like that was had some judgement, me too, 0:07:56.462 --> 0:07:57.302 why a teacher? 0:07:57.462 --> 0:08:00.381 Yes? Why would you ever? Because I wanted to be 0:08:00.502 --> 0:08:05.021 What why questions prompt people to talk about their values, beliefs, 0:08:05.102 --> 0:08:08.461 or experiences, which brings us to the thirty six questions 0:08:08.502 --> 0:08:11.342 that lead to love? Do you to remember this essay? 0:08:11.422 --> 0:08:14.502 It was published who just over ten years ago. It 0:08:14.582 --> 0:08:16.862 was modern Love Essay originally, and then the New York 0:08:16.862 --> 0:08:19.782 Times published all the questions And it came originally from 0:08:19.782 --> 0:08:23.102 a study called the fast Friends Procedure, which doesn't sound 0:08:23.182 --> 0:08:26.862 very sexy, but a woman named Mandy len Catron was 0:08:26.902 --> 0:08:28.821 interested in this research and she found herself on a 0:08:28.902 --> 0:08:31.782 date with a man that she was interested in, and 0:08:31.782 --> 0:08:33.222 they were talking about whether you can fall in love 0:08:33.262 --> 0:08:36.342 with anyone and relationships and connection, and she said, well, 0:08:36.342 --> 0:08:38.902 there's this study. Let's go through these thirty six questions. 0:08:39.302 --> 0:08:41.182 And she couldn't believe how she felt at the end 0:08:41.222 --> 0:08:43.302 of it, so she pens this modern Love essay, which 0:08:43.302 --> 0:08:46.342 then goes viral. Ten years have passed, they're still together, 0:08:46.422 --> 0:08:50.022 they're getting married, she's interviewed on this podcast. The key 0:08:50.102 --> 0:08:53.342 to those questions are that they're not about politics, they're 0:08:53.382 --> 0:08:55.942 not about the TV show you're watching. They are about 0:08:56.062 --> 0:08:59.822 mutual and progressive self disclosure. They're not about the facts 0:08:59.822 --> 0:09:02.342 of our lives, but how we feel about them. So 0:09:02.382 --> 0:09:05.022 there are questions like do you have a secret hunch 0:09:05.102 --> 0:09:07.502 about how you will die? If you could wake up 0:09:07.542 --> 0:09:11.142 tomorrow having gained any one quality or ability, what would 0:09:11.142 --> 0:09:14.381 it be? Or how do you feel about your relationship 0:09:14.502 --> 0:09:18.462 with your mother? Holly? In a way, this seems obvious, 0:09:18.542 --> 0:09:18.902 right right? 0:09:18.982 --> 0:09:20.382 Question on the plane? 0:09:21.222 --> 0:09:24.822 Why questions? Open ended? Why are we so reluctant to 0:09:24.902 --> 0:09:26.022 ask why questions? 0:09:26.222 --> 0:09:30.942 Because they're no scense. It's so funny because I actually 0:09:30.942 --> 0:09:33.782 I love this because small talk is exhausting, right, and 0:09:33.862 --> 0:09:36.022 I hate it, and I'd much rather have a proper 0:09:36.062 --> 0:09:39.942 conversation with somebody in a social situation. But if somebody 0:09:39.982 --> 0:09:42.742 turned round to me on an airplane and said to me, 0:09:43.582 --> 0:09:46.062 how do you really feel about your relationship with your mother? 0:09:47.022 --> 0:09:48.862 I would probably push them out of the door. 0:09:49.022 --> 0:09:51.782 Well, that's why the way that it's designed, these thirty 0:09:51.822 --> 0:09:56.302 six questions is progressive exactly. So it starts don't start back. 0:09:56.422 --> 0:09:59.262 One of the early ones is dinner party, alive or dead? 0:09:59.302 --> 0:10:01.382 Who comes like something? That's a bit of a game. 0:10:01.542 --> 0:10:04.062 And then as it goes on you kind of. 0:10:04.222 --> 0:10:07.382 Because once you start really telling the truth, because small 0:10:07.422 --> 0:10:09.462 talk is basically like armor for us all to wear, 0:10:09.622 --> 0:10:11.462 right where we can all rob up near each other 0:10:11.502 --> 0:10:14.502 in social situations, but we're not giving any vulnerability and 0:10:14.542 --> 0:10:16.302 no one has to give any back. We're just all 0:10:16.342 --> 0:10:20.062 just there like smiling and like clinking eyeglasses whatever. And 0:10:20.142 --> 0:10:23.462 as soon as you start actually telling the truth about things, 0:10:24.222 --> 0:10:26.222 you feel very vulnerable because I don't know you, I 0:10:26.222 --> 0:10:28.662 don't trust you, right, so you have to build a 0:10:28.742 --> 0:10:30.422 level of trust for me to tell you that I 0:10:30.462 --> 0:10:33.422 have been in work situations not at MoMA MIA, but 0:10:33.502 --> 0:10:35.862 over the years of my working life where you know, 0:10:35.902 --> 0:10:38.182 you'll go to like management training and the first thing 0:10:38.262 --> 0:10:40.582 is we're going to play an ice breaker game and 0:10:40.622 --> 0:10:43.742 they'll ask a question, a really personal question, tell us 0:10:43.742 --> 0:10:45.902 a secret about something you did you're ashamed of, and 0:10:45.942 --> 0:10:48.662 I'm like, I will be making up the answer to 0:10:48.702 --> 0:10:49.742 that question. 0:10:49.502 --> 0:10:49.862 Thank you. 0:10:50.462 --> 0:10:52.982 Because you have to earn this y the right to 0:10:53.022 --> 0:10:55.982 have somebody's vulnerability, And interviewers know this. Right when you're 0:10:56.022 --> 0:10:58.822 interviewing someone, you have to get there quite quickly, but 0:10:58.822 --> 0:11:01.142 at least you're already engaged in a contract, which is 0:11:01.182 --> 0:11:02.862 like I'm going to ask you things that I wouldn't 0:11:02.862 --> 0:11:04.381 ask you if I make you on a plane. M 0:11:04.662 --> 0:11:05.302 You know what I mean. 0:11:05.382 --> 0:11:08.462 I think as well, central to that is the mutual 0:11:08.502 --> 0:11:11.022 self disclosure. So I think you would get a totally 0:11:11.022 --> 0:11:13.381 different result if we sat down and I said, may Or, 0:11:13.382 --> 0:11:15.462 I'm going to ask you thirty six questions in a row, 0:11:15.542 --> 0:11:19.062 and then I went, it would be a totally interview. 0:11:19.222 --> 0:11:22.142 Well that's an interview rather than having two people go 0:11:22.422 --> 0:11:25.062 all right, we're entering into a contract where we're going 0:11:25.102 --> 0:11:26.782 to maybe share things we would not ordinarily. 0:11:27.022 --> 0:11:28.902 It's so funny when you sent me this podcast to 0:11:28.942 --> 0:11:33.102 listen to, because Jason, my husband, has always described me 0:11:33.142 --> 0:11:36.902 as a super communicator, and I'd never heard the expression 0:11:36.942 --> 0:11:40.102 other than him using it to describe me. I mean, 0:11:40.142 --> 0:11:43.142 I kind of understood what he meant. Obviously, he's someone 0:11:43.182 --> 0:11:45.662 who doesn't like talking very much. He's deeply introverted, and 0:11:45.662 --> 0:11:48.782 I wouldn't say that I'm extroverted. But this whole thing, 0:11:48.822 --> 0:11:51.942 I kept waiting for the aha moment in it, but 0:11:52.022 --> 0:11:54.942 it is all. It just describes me. And I don't 0:11:55.222 --> 0:11:58.662 say that to big note myself because it's often makes 0:11:58.702 --> 0:12:02.062 people uncomfortable, like I seem to have missed the part 0:12:02.182 --> 0:12:05.062 where you learn how to do small talk. And that's 0:12:05.102 --> 0:12:08.502 why No Filter suited me for so long as a podcast, 0:12:08.582 --> 0:12:13.462 because it gave me permission to do this, which is 0:12:13.502 --> 0:12:16.982 my natural default mechanism. So we were away on holidays 0:12:17.342 --> 0:12:20.222 last week and I met someone in the bar. They 0:12:20.262 --> 0:12:23.702 were sitting with a mutual friend, and I started talking 0:12:23.702 --> 0:12:26.062 to her, and I won't disclose what we spoke about, 0:12:26.102 --> 0:12:30.142 but within about two or three questions, we were just 0:12:31.062 --> 0:12:34.422 talking about something in her life that was very, very deep. 0:12:35.262 --> 0:12:39.222 And sometimes I just go, how did I get here? 0:12:39.502 --> 0:12:42.822 Like I actually can't even deconstruct so the way I'm 0:12:42.862 --> 0:12:45.902 able to do that, And I've never met anyone who 0:12:46.302 --> 0:12:49.862 objects to it, like people are usually very disarmed by it. 0:12:50.222 --> 0:12:52.222 I think that's what they're trying to say in this podcast, 0:12:52.302 --> 0:12:55.022 but also that there are some people where this does 0:12:55.062 --> 0:12:57.382 come naturally, and for those of us who maybe it 0:12:57.422 --> 0:13:00.342 doesn't come as naturally and we're a little bit more 0:13:00.382 --> 0:13:04.342 shy or reticent to open up a conversation, sometimes we 0:13:04.382 --> 0:13:06.982 look at people like you and go, what are the 0:13:07.022 --> 0:13:08.902 mechanics behind that? How do yousel? 0:13:09.582 --> 0:13:12.262 Closure is important in the early reviews for No Filter, 0:13:12.742 --> 0:13:15.342 people would always say, Oh, she talks too much about 0:13:15.342 --> 0:13:19.662 herself about me, And that's very deliberate because the way 0:13:19.822 --> 0:13:22.142 you get someone to trust you and the way you 0:13:22.222 --> 0:13:24.462 make them feel like it's more of a conversation and 0:13:24.582 --> 0:13:28.702 less of an interrogation is by being vulnerable first. And 0:13:28.782 --> 0:13:31.422 so I would do that, and what we learned is 0:13:31.462 --> 0:13:34.582 to actually just cut out my bits because no one 0:13:34.622 --> 0:13:38.302 needs to hear my stories. But it works very well. 0:13:38.702 --> 0:13:40.862 So it also can be a good deflection though, because 0:13:41.102 --> 0:13:43.022 if I'm in a small talk situation and I was 0:13:43.062 --> 0:13:44.622 just away on a trip where every day I had 0:13:44.662 --> 0:13:46.822 to sit next to, like not even every day, every 0:13:46.862 --> 0:13:49.062 meal time set next people I didn't know, I don't 0:13:49.062 --> 0:13:52.062 really want to talk about myself in those situations. So 0:13:52.542 --> 0:13:55.102 getting other people to talk about themselves is the key, 0:13:55.302 --> 0:13:58.462 which is a little unfair and a little unbalanced, but 0:13:58.622 --> 0:14:01.662 people love talking about themselves. Once you get them going 0:14:01.702 --> 0:14:02.582 on something, they're passionate. 0:14:02.702 --> 0:14:04.782 Yeah, for me, it's an energy conserving tool as well. 0:14:04.822 --> 0:14:07.502 In a social situation, it's an energy conserving tool because 0:14:07.502 --> 0:14:09.942 most people really do like talking about themselves. You're life hole, 0:14:10.302 --> 0:14:12.582 and it means that I can deflect. I once went 0:14:12.622 --> 0:14:14.862 to dinner with two women who are a couple, and 0:14:14.902 --> 0:14:18.182 I was quite friends with them, and a little way 0:14:18.222 --> 0:14:22.342 in they'd obviously been talking about me, because they went, no, 0:14:22.462 --> 0:14:24.622 that's enough questions for us. We want to ask you 0:14:24.742 --> 0:14:25.822 how you're going. 0:14:26.542 --> 0:14:27.262 I always hate that. 0:14:27.942 --> 0:14:31.142 Yeah, when I'm like, oh, okay, well, clearly I've gone 0:14:31.142 --> 0:14:34.462 into interviewer mode, which I do when I'm tired or 0:14:34.942 --> 0:14:36.422 you know, feeling like talking. 0:14:36.702 --> 0:14:40.422 The second episode had a bunch of stuff about nonverbal communication, 0:14:40.782 --> 0:14:42.662 which you know we talked about a lot, but it 0:14:42.742 --> 0:14:46.422 was it was really specific. So apparently like confidence can 0:14:46.462 --> 0:14:49.382 be read by the distance between your ear lobes and 0:14:49.422 --> 0:14:51.302 your shoulders. That was a big one. What do you 0:14:51.382 --> 0:14:56.302 mean so posture? That's why posture is seen as really important, 0:14:56.502 --> 0:15:00.302 Like when someone stands up straight like they can often 0:15:00.342 --> 0:15:02.182 make you feel a lot more at ease, that sort 0:15:02.182 --> 0:15:06.022 of thing. The second thing was hands on the table, 0:15:06.142 --> 0:15:08.102 so they said that if you're in a business meeting, 0:15:08.342 --> 0:15:11.382 or if you're in a word scenario, let's say you're 0:15:11.422 --> 0:15:13.782 running a meeting, people might walk out and go, I 0:15:13.782 --> 0:15:15.462 don't know, I just got a weird vibe. I just 0:15:15.542 --> 0:15:18.182 wasn't feeling it, and it'll be some unconscious thing that 0:15:18.182 --> 0:15:20.062 they can't even name. But if you had your hands 0:15:20.142 --> 0:15:23.502 under the table, they don't have the same level of trust. 0:15:23.542 --> 0:15:25.822 Bloody, language is really important, so you should never cross 0:15:25.862 --> 0:15:28.862 your arms, always, never have your energy blocked. You will 0:15:28.862 --> 0:15:30.982 instinctively do that as a way to sort of protect 0:15:31.022 --> 0:15:34.262 yourself without even realizing it. The ideal thing is for 0:15:34.342 --> 0:15:37.022 someone to show the inside of their wrists. If you 0:15:37.062 --> 0:15:39.302 can find a way to show the inside of your 0:15:39.302 --> 0:15:42.862 wrists and your palms, that's very disarmy. 0:15:42.542 --> 0:15:43.942 Like dong rolling on their back. 0:15:44.022 --> 0:15:47.142 Correct. And the other way to really show someone that 0:15:47.142 --> 0:15:50.862 you're listening is to tilt your head a dog. Yeah, 0:15:50.942 --> 0:15:52.822 like a dog. You just go like that and raise 0:15:52.862 --> 0:15:53.502 your eyebrows. 0:15:53.542 --> 0:15:57.302 The raising eyebrows it's called an eyebrow flash. You're not 0:15:57.342 --> 0:16:00.742 meant to do it too often, but it says like 0:16:00.822 --> 0:16:03.142 I'm interested in compelled by what you're saying. But I 0:16:03.182 --> 0:16:07.742 was thinking about the impact of injectibles, and our face 0:16:07.822 --> 0:16:11.382 is not moving like maybe they once if you can't 0:16:11.422 --> 0:16:14.542 actually move your eyebrows or even like what do they 0:16:14.582 --> 0:16:17.262 call it when you're like replicating or mirroring the expressions 0:16:17.262 --> 0:16:18.302 of the person you're talking to. 0:16:18.422 --> 0:16:21.382 Yeah, you know, as part of this book Charles Doig 0:16:21.702 --> 0:16:24.662 is really interesting, and he said, when you're looking at 0:16:24.742 --> 0:16:29.942 mastering effective communication, there are three different fundamental types of 0:16:29.982 --> 0:16:34.582 conversations that occur in every interaction, right, And the biggest 0:16:34.662 --> 0:16:37.502 chance of miscommunication is when one person thinks they're having 0:16:37.542 --> 0:16:40.422 one type of conversation and someone else thinks they're having another. 0:16:40.502 --> 0:16:43.862 So the three types of practical conversations, which is, you know, 0:16:44.022 --> 0:16:47.862 decision making or problem solving. The second one is emotional conversations, 0:16:48.262 --> 0:16:50.862 how do we feel about feelings, empathy? And the third 0:16:50.862 --> 0:16:54.142 one is social conversations, and that's exploring identity, relationships and 0:16:54.182 --> 0:16:57.062 social roles. And it's so funny that as I was 0:16:57.102 --> 0:17:00.422 prepping for the show and reading about this, I was 0:17:00.462 --> 0:17:05.661 having a text argument with someone and they thought it 0:17:05.782 --> 0:17:08.022 was a man could have been my husband, and he 0:17:08.101 --> 0:17:09.222 thought we were having. 0:17:09.022 --> 0:17:12.422 A practical, a practical conversation, an emotional conversation, and he was. 0:17:12.462 --> 0:17:16.581 Very confused by the enormity of my responses to something 0:17:16.621 --> 0:17:20.621 that seemed really practical. And then I realized in the 0:17:20.661 --> 0:17:22.742 course of the conversation that I was having an emotional 0:17:22.742 --> 0:17:26.181 conversation about how I feel. And I think that happens 0:17:26.222 --> 0:17:27.741 a lot. I know it happens a lot with me. 0:17:28.182 --> 0:17:32.302 When I'm talking to men, including my sons, I'm always 0:17:32.341 --> 0:17:35.902 having an emotional conversation, but they, in most cases think 0:17:35.942 --> 0:17:37.502 that they're having a practical conversation. 0:17:38.141 --> 0:17:40.462 So when was the last time he cried in front 0:17:40.502 --> 0:17:41.902 of someone else? Jesse Stevens. 0:17:42.182 --> 0:17:44.061 The last time I cried in front of someone else 0:17:44.542 --> 0:17:47.942 was in in public cry. I cried in public, which 0:17:47.942 --> 0:17:49.621 is always the worst. You know, things the wheels are 0:17:49.621 --> 0:17:52.022 falling off. Oh yeah, when I was at a medical 0:17:52.061 --> 0:17:55.381 center because Luna had hurt herself and she would not 0:17:55.422 --> 0:17:59.742 stop crying, and I just broke down and the woman 0:17:59.782 --> 0:18:02.622 at reception was so so lovely. Luca walked in, he'd 0:18:02.661 --> 0:18:04.982 been at work and came to get us. He went 0:18:05.022 --> 0:18:07.461 to Luna, and then the woman at reception said, I 0:18:07.462 --> 0:18:08.821 think your wife needs a cuddle. 0:18:09.141 --> 0:18:13.381 Oh, And then that made me cry more, and I 0:18:13.422 --> 0:18:15.622 just I got a mask because I went maybe if 0:18:15.621 --> 0:18:17.581 I wear the mask high enough, no one will see 0:18:17.581 --> 0:18:19.421 the tears under the mask. 0:18:19.581 --> 0:18:21.581 But that was not my finest moment. When was the 0:18:21.621 --> 0:18:22.381 last time you cried? 0:18:22.581 --> 0:18:22.741 You know? 0:18:22.821 --> 0:18:25.182 I have tried very hard to never cry in front 0:18:25.182 --> 0:18:27.661 of other people, even Brent, I hate it. I like 0:18:27.702 --> 0:18:32.582 to cry by myself. That's my preferred crying situation. But 0:18:32.782 --> 0:18:35.621 I did cry, yeah, in front of Brent. He's probably 0:18:35.661 --> 0:18:37.341 the only person who sees me cry very much. And 0:18:37.381 --> 0:18:40.782 it was one of those frustrated It was about tax. 0:18:41.702 --> 0:18:45.861 Of course, Tax makes me cry, just like I feel 0:18:45.901 --> 0:18:47.821 so overwhelmed by all this and why aren't you helping 0:18:47.821 --> 0:18:49.222 me with it? And he's like, I can't. It was 0:18:49.262 --> 0:18:53.702 one of those conversations which was not Again, he probably 0:18:53.742 --> 0:18:57.221 thought he was having a practical conversation. I thought we 0:18:57.222 --> 0:18:59.061 were going to see the bookkeeper and I'm like. 0:18:58.982 --> 0:18:59.942 But you don't understand. 0:18:59.982 --> 0:19:01.901 I'm sorry overwhelmed and. 0:19:02.061 --> 0:19:03.381 Tax is never not emotional. 0:19:03.542 --> 0:19:03.742 Maya. 0:19:04.302 --> 0:19:06.942 I went through a long period of crying a lot, 0:19:07.782 --> 0:19:11.901 including at work when I was really overwhelmed, really frustrated, 0:19:11.901 --> 0:19:14.381 which is there's just nothing worse than crying in a 0:19:14.422 --> 0:19:17.582 work situation because women will often cry in those situations 0:19:18.141 --> 0:19:22.261 because they're frustrated or they're frustrated with themselves or whatever 0:19:22.302 --> 0:19:24.222 it is. And that was the case with me. I 0:19:24.262 --> 0:19:26.382