1 00:00:10,622 --> 00:00:13,342 Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast. 2 00:00:13,822 --> 00:00:17,182 Speaker 2: Mama Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters 3 00:00:17,222 --> 00:00:18,782 Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on. 4 00:00:20,741 --> 00:00:24,701 Speaker 1: When you're looking at mastering effective communication, there are three 5 00:00:25,142 --> 00:00:29,261 Speaker 1: different fundamental types of conversations that occur in every interaction, 6 00:00:29,422 --> 00:00:33,382 Speaker 1: right and the biggest chance of miscommunication is when one 7 00:00:33,382 --> 00:00:36,222 Speaker 1: person thinks they're having one type of conversation and someone 8 00:00:36,222 --> 00:00:38,622 Speaker 1: else thinks they're having another. As I was prepping for 9 00:00:38,781 --> 00:00:41,622 Speaker 1: the show and reading about this, I was having a 10 00:00:41,662 --> 00:00:44,942 Speaker 1: text argument with someone. It was a man, and he 11 00:00:44,982 --> 00:00:45,982 Speaker 1: thought we were having a. 12 00:00:46,062 --> 00:00:48,702 Speaker 3: Practical, practical conversation and emotional conversation. 13 00:00:48,822 --> 00:00:51,902 Speaker 1: And then I realized in the course of the conversation 14 00:00:51,982 --> 00:00:54,822 Speaker 1: that I was having an emotional conversation about how I feel. 15 00:01:00,062 --> 00:01:02,542 Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome to Mom and Mia out Loud and 16 00:01:02,582 --> 00:01:05,062 Speaker 2: to our Friday show, where you know, we don't do news. 17 00:01:05,182 --> 00:01:08,542 Speaker 2: We just do talking. Nothing from the outside is breaking 18 00:01:08,542 --> 00:01:12,862 Speaker 2: into our bubble. Today is also a public holiday, of course, 19 00:01:12,902 --> 00:01:14,862 Speaker 2: it's an Zac Day, but we thought we would do 20 00:01:14,902 --> 00:01:17,462 Speaker 2: an episode for you anyway, because you might have been 21 00:01:17,582 --> 00:01:19,462 Speaker 2: up since really early at the dawn service. You might 22 00:01:19,502 --> 00:01:21,822 Speaker 2: be baking anzac Vicki's. You might just be going to 23 00:01:21,862 --> 00:01:23,742 Speaker 2: the beach, but yeah, what you deserved them. 24 00:01:23,862 --> 00:01:26,262 Speaker 3: You might have the day off. There are some hard 25 00:01:26,302 --> 00:01:28,342 Speaker 3: working out ladders who are working today a lot. 26 00:01:29,182 --> 00:01:30,622 Speaker 2: But anyway, we digress. 27 00:01:30,662 --> 00:01:33,581 Speaker 3: I'm Holly wayIn right, I'm Mere Friedman, and I'm Jesse Stevens. 28 00:01:33,702 --> 00:01:36,902 Speaker 2: And on today's show, when was the last time you 29 00:01:37,022 --> 00:01:40,021 Speaker 2: cried in front of someone else? And would you tell 30 00:01:40,142 --> 00:01:43,702 Speaker 2: a complete stranger the answer to that question? Welcome to 31 00:01:43,742 --> 00:01:47,262 Speaker 2: the list of magic questions, which are shortcuts to connection, 32 00:01:47,662 --> 00:01:50,542 Speaker 2: plus one of the twenty five lip products in my handbag, 33 00:01:50,782 --> 00:01:53,542 Speaker 2: a book and an article about a cosmetic procedure you've 34 00:01:53,582 --> 00:01:57,662 Speaker 2: likely never heard of, its recommendations, and our best and worst, 35 00:01:57,662 --> 00:02:01,062 Speaker 2: which include camping, nicoles, a family sick fest, and Nana singing. 36 00:02:01,422 --> 00:02:03,222 Speaker 2: But first, Mere Friedman, in. 37 00:02:03,142 --> 00:02:06,262 Speaker 1: Case you missed it, being polite to your chat GPT 38 00:02:06,542 --> 00:02:10,221 Speaker 1: bot could be doing some damage to the world. This 39 00:02:10,302 --> 00:02:13,181 Speaker 1: is confusing news for everyone who uses phrases like please 40 00:02:13,742 --> 00:02:16,262 Speaker 1: and thank you when they talk to an AI tool 41 00:02:16,341 --> 00:02:19,462 Speaker 1: like chat GPT. I do I always say please. 42 00:02:19,302 --> 00:02:20,702 Speaker 2: Me too, I'm told to do it. 43 00:02:20,782 --> 00:02:23,782 Speaker 1: I don't really say thank you. But what it does 44 00:02:23,902 --> 00:02:26,942 Speaker 1: is that it increases the amount of energy required to 45 00:02:27,062 --> 00:02:31,182 Speaker 1: process whatever you've asked the chatbot to do. That's what 46 00:02:31,342 --> 00:02:34,142 Speaker 1: Sam Altman, who is the boss of Open Ai, has 47 00:02:34,181 --> 00:02:36,502 Speaker 1: said this week when someone asked him about the electricity 48 00:02:36,502 --> 00:02:40,062 Speaker 1: that powers AI and all the energy required, and he 49 00:02:40,181 --> 00:02:43,542 Speaker 1: said that politeness increases costs for his company by tens 50 00:02:43,542 --> 00:02:46,502 Speaker 1: of millions of dollars per year. Now, for those not 51 00:02:46,582 --> 00:02:48,742 Speaker 1: yet using AI, you can do all sorts of things 52 00:02:48,822 --> 00:02:51,302 Speaker 1: for free, so it doesn't cost you directly to say 53 00:02:51,342 --> 00:02:53,862 Speaker 1: please and thank you in case you're wondering, and it 54 00:02:53,902 --> 00:02:57,062 Speaker 1: doesn't change the accuracy or the quality of the results 55 00:02:57,102 --> 00:02:59,382 Speaker 1: that you get. It just means that the computer has 56 00:02:59,422 --> 00:03:01,822 Speaker 1: to think a bit harder before answering you. 57 00:03:02,222 --> 00:03:04,742 Speaker 2: So just about extra words or is it about those words? 58 00:03:04,782 --> 00:03:05,422 Speaker 2: In particular? 59 00:03:05,622 --> 00:03:09,501 Speaker 1: It's about extra words and phrases, and it has to 60 00:03:09,862 --> 00:03:11,982 Speaker 1: be polite back to you. Now, there are two reasons 61 00:03:11,982 --> 00:03:15,022 Speaker 1: why people tend to use thank you and please if 62 00:03:15,062 --> 00:03:18,822 Speaker 1: they do. The first is ethically because it's a robot, 63 00:03:18,902 --> 00:03:21,062 Speaker 1: but maybe we don't want to be mean to the robots. 64 00:03:21,342 --> 00:03:23,902 Speaker 1: And the second is just in case the robots take over, 65 00:03:24,622 --> 00:03:26,702 Speaker 1: we want to, you know, fitting good with them. 66 00:03:26,822 --> 00:03:30,462 Speaker 3: Reason I would say is that it is about setting 67 00:03:30,502 --> 00:03:33,781 Speaker 3: a precedent if you get into the habit of barking orders, 68 00:03:33,782 --> 00:03:37,022 Speaker 3: which I have found with my Siri, with my like 69 00:03:37,102 --> 00:03:38,782 Speaker 3: all of the things that I tell to do things. 70 00:03:39,142 --> 00:03:41,422 Speaker 3: And I think, firstly, I don't want my daughter just 71 00:03:41,462 --> 00:03:45,502 Speaker 3: hearing me yell orders at things all the time. And secondly, 72 00:03:45,982 --> 00:03:50,582 Speaker 3: if I speak to something that is serving me like that, yeah, 73 00:03:50,742 --> 00:03:53,502 Speaker 3: then how long until it bleeds into the workplace where 74 00:03:53,822 --> 00:03:57,062 Speaker 3: you know your boss is speaking to the assistant with 75 00:03:57,182 --> 00:03:58,382 Speaker 3: the same level of. 76 00:03:58,542 --> 00:04:00,702 Speaker 1: Oh, you talk to someone in the service industry. 77 00:04:00,382 --> 00:04:02,062 Speaker 3: Exactly, real human without a please and think. 78 00:04:02,142 --> 00:04:04,742 Speaker 2: But then I was also told, and maybe this isn't true, 79 00:04:04,782 --> 00:04:07,822 Speaker 2: but when we have had a training and things is 80 00:04:07,862 --> 00:04:10,342 Speaker 2: that if you're polite to it, it will be polite 81 00:04:10,382 --> 00:04:11,862 Speaker 2: to you, which is the same aunt in the world, 82 00:04:11,982 --> 00:04:13,942 Speaker 2: right karma. You put out what you want to get back, 83 00:04:14,382 --> 00:04:17,142 Speaker 2: and so I don't want my robot to shout at 84 00:04:17,181 --> 00:04:17,662 Speaker 2: me no. 85 00:04:17,702 --> 00:04:20,541 Speaker 1: But it takes more energy, so it uses up more 86 00:04:20,702 --> 00:04:24,061 Speaker 1: energy and the cost of energy. Obviously, the energy required 87 00:04:24,101 --> 00:04:29,342 Speaker 1: to process all of the AI queries is powered by electricity, which. 88 00:04:29,301 --> 00:04:31,662 Speaker 3: And Holly, you're onto something, because there actually was a 89 00:04:31,702 --> 00:04:34,942 Speaker 3: study that found they had people all across the world 90 00:04:34,981 --> 00:04:37,222 Speaker 3: because manners are very different in different countries, there are 91 00:04:37,222 --> 00:04:40,101 Speaker 3: different versions of please and thank you, and they found 92 00:04:40,181 --> 00:04:43,621 Speaker 3: that you got thirty percent worse results without manners. So 93 00:04:43,902 --> 00:04:48,062 Speaker 3: you're on chat GPT whatever it is. They will omit information. 94 00:04:48,662 --> 00:04:52,101 Speaker 3: Sometimes there are errors, like apparently you get better results 95 00:04:52,101 --> 00:04:52,581 Speaker 3: if you speak. 96 00:04:52,702 --> 00:04:56,301 Speaker 1: That's finally what chat GPT told me. I did some 97 00:04:56,381 --> 00:04:59,382 Speaker 1: research this morning and it said it will not affect 98 00:04:59,462 --> 00:05:02,181 Speaker 1: the quality. It does talk back to you. However, you 99 00:05:02,301 --> 00:05:06,261 Speaker 1: talk to it so like I've trained mine that it'll 100 00:05:06,301 --> 00:05:09,981 Speaker 1: just be I'll be like, thanks, that's an awesome answer. 101 00:05:10,181 --> 00:05:12,621 Speaker 1: Could you try doing it with a little bit more 102 00:05:12,621 --> 00:05:16,181 Speaker 1: brevity or in bullet points, and then it'll go thanks 103 00:05:16,222 --> 00:05:19,981 Speaker 1: so much for your detailed feedback. That's amazing, And it's like, 104 00:05:20,142 --> 00:05:22,981 Speaker 1: are you feel cool? Like it's I think so much 105 00:05:23,022 --> 00:05:25,381 Speaker 1: of what people are scared about with AI is that 106 00:05:25,462 --> 00:05:29,062 Speaker 1: it's so dehumanized, and it is because you are actually 107 00:05:29,061 --> 00:05:32,301 Speaker 1: talking to people and things that don't exist. But by 108 00:05:32,342 --> 00:05:34,541 Speaker 1: making it as human as possible, I don't know. 109 00:05:34,861 --> 00:05:38,781 Speaker 2: So res Altman suggesting that we should stop saying please 110 00:05:38,821 --> 00:05:41,022 Speaker 2: and thank you, because he's like, if you're worried about 111 00:05:41,022 --> 00:05:43,662 Speaker 2: the environmental impacts of AI, then the way to deal 112 00:05:43,662 --> 00:05:45,501 Speaker 2: with it is short and to the point. 113 00:05:45,782 --> 00:05:48,782 Speaker 1: Not really, he was more tongue in cheek. It's costing 114 00:05:48,861 --> 00:05:52,061 Speaker 1: us a lot of money more, but it's worth it 115 00:05:52,101 --> 00:05:54,541 Speaker 1: if it means that the world is being populated by 116 00:05:54,902 --> 00:05:57,222 Speaker 1: better manners. I will bear that cost. 117 00:05:57,342 --> 00:05:59,541 Speaker 3: This is the most Silicon Valley, just telling us that 118 00:05:59,621 --> 00:06:03,301 Speaker 3: it's less efficient to be polite. That's where Silicon Valley 119 00:06:03,381 --> 00:06:03,862 Speaker 3: leads us. 120 00:06:03,941 --> 00:06:06,541 Speaker 2: I like MEA's theory that we're playing the long game 121 00:06:06,621 --> 00:06:08,782 Speaker 2: and we have to be nice to our future over lords. 122 00:06:08,861 --> 00:06:10,301 Speaker 1: Like they're keeping a list somewhere. 123 00:06:10,381 --> 00:06:11,781 Speaker 2: They'd be like me is the one who. 124 00:06:11,621 --> 00:06:15,181 Speaker 1: Always says that thanks, great job. She complimented my outfit. 125 00:06:16,381 --> 00:06:19,822 Speaker 3: How do I become a super communicator? You know those 126 00:06:19,861 --> 00:06:23,061 Speaker 3: people who can talk to just about anyone about anything, 127 00:06:23,181 --> 00:06:26,261 Speaker 3: and not just small talk. They find themselves in deep, 128 00:06:26,541 --> 00:06:31,461 Speaker 3: interesting conversations with strangers. Apparently there is a name for 129 00:06:31,541 --> 00:06:35,461 Speaker 3: these people, and they are super communicators, and any of 130 00:06:35,541 --> 00:06:39,181 Speaker 3: us can become one with the right training. A new 131 00:06:39,181 --> 00:06:43,902 Speaker 3: podcast by Charles Dowig called super Communicators explores the science 132 00:06:43,941 --> 00:06:47,101 Speaker 3: of connection and offers very practical advice on how to 133 00:06:47,142 --> 00:06:50,862 Speaker 3: have more interesting and fulfilling conversations. Here's a little bit 134 00:06:50,902 --> 00:06:51,702 Speaker 3: of that podcast. 135 00:06:52,022 --> 00:06:54,181 Speaker 4: The next time you're on an airplane or on a bus, 136 00:06:54,342 --> 00:06:56,701 Speaker 4: or you're at a party, or you're making small talk 137 00:06:56,741 --> 00:07:00,421 Speaker 4: with someone, turn to them and ask them a deep question. 138 00:07:01,262 --> 00:07:02,822 Speaker 4: And you might think to yourself, this is going to 139 00:07:02,861 --> 00:07:05,741 Speaker 4: be weird, it's going to be really awkward. But I 140 00:07:05,741 --> 00:07:08,101 Speaker 4: think what you'll find is that if you ask a 141 00:07:08,181 --> 00:07:12,021 Speaker 4: question with genuine curiosity, the other person is delighted to 142 00:07:12,062 --> 00:07:15,222 Speaker 4: answer it, and then you should ask another question and 143 00:07:15,262 --> 00:07:18,782 Speaker 4: share something about yourself and then eventually ask them, so, 144 00:07:18,902 --> 00:07:22,102 Speaker 4: just out of curiosity, when's the last time you cried 145 00:07:22,142 --> 00:07:23,302 Speaker 4: in front of another person. 146 00:07:24,142 --> 00:07:27,581 Speaker 3: Central to this is something called magical questions. They have 147 00:07:27,662 --> 00:07:32,102 Speaker 3: been studied and determined by psychologists to increase intimacy between 148 00:07:32,142 --> 00:07:35,462 Speaker 3: two people. And at the most basic level, it means 149 00:07:35,462 --> 00:07:37,222 Speaker 3: that you meet someone right and you just have a 150 00:07:37,262 --> 00:07:38,422 Speaker 3: chat and they go, I'm a teacher. 151 00:07:38,782 --> 00:07:38,942 Speaker 1: Now. 152 00:07:38,982 --> 00:07:41,062 Speaker 3: The logical next question for a lot of people would 153 00:07:41,062 --> 00:07:43,461 Speaker 3: be what school, what year, what long have you been 154 00:07:43,742 --> 00:07:45,502 Speaker 3: how long have you been a teacher? Exactly? And we 155 00:07:45,582 --> 00:07:48,781 Speaker 3: know that they're like more close questions, and the advice 156 00:07:48,862 --> 00:07:51,941 Speaker 3: here is that your next question should be why what 157 00:07:52,062 --> 00:07:53,062 Speaker 3: made you go into teaching? 158 00:07:53,381 --> 00:07:56,342 Speaker 2: I would feel like that was had some judgement, me too, 159 00:07:56,462 --> 00:07:57,302 Speaker 2: why a teacher? 160 00:07:57,462 --> 00:08:00,381 Speaker 3: Yes? Why would you ever? Because I wanted to be 161 00:08:00,502 --> 00:08:05,021 Speaker 3: What why questions prompt people to talk about their values, beliefs, 162 00:08:05,102 --> 00:08:08,461 Speaker 3: or experiences, which brings us to the thirty six questions 163 00:08:08,502 --> 00:08:11,342 Speaker 3: that lead to love? Do you to remember this essay? 164 00:08:11,422 --> 00:08:14,502 Speaker 3: It was published who just over ten years ago. It 165 00:08:14,582 --> 00:08:16,862 Speaker 3: was modern Love Essay originally, and then the New York 166 00:08:16,862 --> 00:08:19,782 Speaker 3: Times published all the questions And it came originally from 167 00:08:19,782 --> 00:08:23,102 Speaker 3: a study called the fast Friends Procedure, which doesn't sound 168 00:08:23,182 --> 00:08:26,862 Speaker 3: very sexy, but a woman named Mandy len Catron was 169 00:08:26,902 --> 00:08:28,821 Speaker 3: interested in this research and she found herself on a 170 00:08:28,902 --> 00:08:31,782 Speaker 3: date with a man that she was interested in, and 171 00:08:31,782 --> 00:08:33,222 Speaker 3: they were talking about whether you can fall in love 172 00:08:33,262 --> 00:08:36,342 Speaker 3: with anyone and relationships and connection, and she said, well, 173 00:08:36,342 --> 00:08:38,902 Speaker 3: there's this study. Let's go through these thirty six questions. 174 00:08:39,302 --> 00:08:41,182 Speaker 3: And she couldn't believe how she felt at the end 175 00:08:41,222 --> 00:08:43,302 Speaker 3: of it, so she pens this modern Love essay, which 176 00:08:43,302 --> 00:08:46,342 Speaker 3: then goes viral. Ten years have passed, they're still together, 177 00:08:46,422 --> 00:08:50,022 Speaker 3: they're getting married, she's interviewed on this podcast. The key 178 00:08:50,102 --> 00:08:53,342 Speaker 3: to those questions are that they're not about politics, they're 179 00:08:53,382 --> 00:08:55,942 Speaker 3: not about the TV show you're watching. They are about 180 00:08:56,062 --> 00:08:59,822 Speaker 3: mutual and progressive self disclosure. They're not about the facts 181 00:08:59,822 --> 00:09:02,342 Speaker 3: of our lives, but how we feel about them. So 182 00:09:02,382 --> 00:09:05,022 Speaker 3: there are questions like do you have a secret hunch 183 00:09:05,102 --> 00:09:07,502 Speaker 3: about how you will die? If you could wake up 184 00:09:07,542 --> 00:09:11,142 Speaker 3: tomorrow having gained any one quality or ability, what would 185 00:09:11,142 --> 00:09:14,381 Speaker 3: it be? Or how do you feel about your relationship 186 00:09:14,502 --> 00:09:18,462 Speaker 3: with your mother? Holly? In a way, this seems obvious, 187 00:09:18,542 --> 00:09:18,902 Speaker 3: right right? 188 00:09:18,982 --> 00:09:20,382 Speaker 2: Question on the plane? 189 00:09:21,222 --> 00:09:24,822 Speaker 3: Why questions? Open ended? Why are we so reluctant to 190 00:09:24,902 --> 00:09:26,022 Speaker 3: ask why questions? 191 00:09:26,222 --> 00:09:30,942 Speaker 2: Because they're no scense. It's so funny because I actually 192 00:09:30,942 --> 00:09:33,782 Speaker 2: I love this because small talk is exhausting, right, and 193 00:09:33,862 --> 00:09:36,022 Speaker 2: I hate it, and I'd much rather have a proper 194 00:09:36,062 --> 00:09:39,942 Speaker 2: conversation with somebody in a social situation. But if somebody 195 00:09:39,982 --> 00:09:42,742 Speaker 2: turned round to me on an airplane and said to me, 196 00:09:43,582 --> 00:09:46,062 Speaker 2: how do you really feel about your relationship with your mother? 197 00:09:47,022 --> 00:09:48,862 Speaker 2: I would probably push them out of the door. 198 00:09:49,022 --> 00:09:51,782 Speaker 3: Well, that's why the way that it's designed, these thirty 199 00:09:51,822 --> 00:09:56,302 Speaker 3: six questions is progressive exactly. So it starts don't start back. 200 00:09:56,422 --> 00:09:59,262 Speaker 3: One of the early ones is dinner party, alive or dead? 201 00:09:59,302 --> 00:10:01,382 Speaker 3: Who comes like something? That's a bit of a game. 202 00:10:01,542 --> 00:10:04,062 Speaker 3: And then as it goes on you kind of. 203 00:10:04,222 --> 00:10:07,382 Speaker 2: Because once you start really telling the truth, because small 204 00:10:07,422 --> 00:10:09,462 Speaker 2: talk is basically like armor for us all to wear, 205 00:10:09,622 --> 00:10:11,462 Speaker 2: right where we can all rob up near each other 206 00:10:11,502 --> 00:10:14,502 Speaker 2: in social situations, but we're not giving any vulnerability and 207 00:10:14,542 --> 00:10:16,302 Speaker 2: no one has to give any back. We're just all 208 00:10:16,342 --> 00:10:20,062 Speaker 2: just there like smiling and like clinking eyeglasses whatever. And 209 00:10:20,142 --> 00:10:23,462 Speaker 2: as soon as you start actually telling the truth about things, 210 00:10:24,222 --> 00:10:26,222 Speaker 2: you feel very vulnerable because I don't know you, I 211 00:10:26,222 --> 00:10:28,662 Speaker 2: don't trust you, right, so you have to build a 212 00:10:28,742 --> 00:10:30,422 Speaker 2: level of trust for me to tell you that I 213 00:10:30,462 --> 00:10:33,422 Speaker 2: have been in work situations not at MoMA MIA, but 214 00:10:33,502 --> 00:10:35,862 Speaker 2: over the years of my working life where you know, 215 00:10:35,902 --> 00:10:38,182 Speaker 2: you'll go to like management training and the first thing 216 00:10:38,262 --> 00:10:40,582 Speaker 2: is we're going to play an ice breaker game and 217 00:10:40,622 --> 00:10:43,742 Speaker 2: they'll ask a question, a really personal question, tell us 218 00:10:43,742 --> 00:10:45,902 Speaker 2: a secret about something you did you're ashamed of, and 219 00:10:45,942 --> 00:10:48,662 Speaker 2: I'm like, I will be making up the answer to 220 00:10:48,702 --> 00:10:49,742 Speaker 2: that question. 221 00:10:49,502 --> 00:10:49,862 Speaker 1: Thank you. 222 00:10:50,462 --> 00:10:52,982 Speaker 2: Because you have to earn this y the right to 223 00:10:53,022 --> 00:10:55,982 Speaker 2: have somebody's vulnerability, And interviewers know this. Right when you're 224 00:10:56,022 --> 00:10:58,822 Speaker 2: interviewing someone, you have to get there quite quickly, but 225 00:10:58,822 --> 00:11:01,142 Speaker 2: at least you're already engaged in a contract, which is 226 00:11:01,182 --> 00:11:02,862 Speaker 2: like I'm going to ask you things that I wouldn't 227 00:11:02,862 --> 00:11:04,381 Speaker 2: ask you if I make you on a plane. M 228 00:11:04,662 --> 00:11:05,302 Speaker 2: You know what I mean. 229 00:11:05,382 --> 00:11:08,462 Speaker 3: I think as well, central to that is the mutual 230 00:11:08,502 --> 00:11:11,022 Speaker 3: self disclosure. So I think you would get a totally 231 00:11:11,022 --> 00:11:13,381 Speaker 3: different result if we sat down and I said, may Or, 232 00:11:13,382 --> 00:11:15,462 Speaker 3: I'm going to ask you thirty six questions in a row, 233 00:11:15,542 --> 00:11:19,062 Speaker 3: and then I went, it would be a totally interview. 234 00:11:19,222 --> 00:11:22,142 Speaker 3: Well that's an interview rather than having two people go 235 00:11:22,422 --> 00:11:25,062 Speaker 3: all right, we're entering into a contract where we're going 236 00:11:25,102 --> 00:11:26,782 Speaker 3: to maybe share things we would not ordinarily. 237 00:11:27,022 --> 00:11:28,902 Speaker 1: It's so funny when you sent me this podcast to 238 00:11:28,942 --> 00:11:33,102 Speaker 1: listen to, because Jason, my husband, has always described me 239 00:11:33,142 --> 00:11:36,902 Speaker 1: as a super communicator, and I'd never heard the expression 240 00:11:36,942 --> 00:11:40,102 Speaker 1: other than him using it to describe me. I mean, 241 00:11:40,142 --> 00:11:43,142 Speaker 1: I kind of understood what he meant. Obviously, he's someone 242 00:11:43,182 --> 00:11:45,662 Speaker 1: who doesn't like talking very much. He's deeply introverted, and 243 00:11:45,662 --> 00:11:48,782 Speaker 1: I wouldn't say that I'm extroverted. But this whole thing, 244 00:11:48,822 --> 00:11:51,942 Speaker 1: I kept waiting for the aha moment in it, but 245 00:11:52,022 --> 00:11:54,942 Speaker 1: it is all. It just describes me. And I don't 246 00:11:55,222 --> 00:11:58,662 Speaker 1: say that to big note myself because it's often makes 247 00:11:58,702 --> 00:12:02,062 Speaker 1: people uncomfortable, like I seem to have missed the part 248 00:12:02,182 --> 00:12:05,062 Speaker 1: where you learn how to do small talk. And that's 249 00:12:05,102 --> 00:12:08,502 Speaker 1: why No Filter suited me for so long as a podcast, 250 00:12:08,582 --> 00:12:13,462 Speaker 1: because it gave me permission to do this, which is 251 00:12:13,502 --> 00:12:16,982 Speaker 1: my natural default mechanism. So we were away on holidays 252 00:12:17,342 --> 00:12:20,222 Speaker 1: last week and I met someone in the bar. They 253 00:12:20,262 --> 00:12:23,702 Speaker 1: were sitting with a mutual friend, and I started talking 254 00:12:23,702 --> 00:12:26,062 Speaker 1: to her, and I won't disclose what we spoke about, 255 00:12:26,102 --> 00:12:30,142 Speaker 1: but within about two or three questions, we were just 256 00:12:31,062 --> 00:12:34,422 Speaker 1: talking about something in her life that was very, very deep. 257 00:12:35,262 --> 00:12:39,222 Speaker 1: And sometimes I just go, how did I get here? 258 00:12:39,502 --> 00:12:42,822 Speaker 1: Like I actually can't even deconstruct so the way I'm 259 00:12:42,862 --> 00:12:45,902 Speaker 1: able to do that, And I've never met anyone who 260 00:12:46,302 --> 00:12:49,862 Speaker 1: objects to it, like people are usually very disarmed by it. 261 00:12:50,222 --> 00:12:52,222 Speaker 3: I think that's what they're trying to say in this podcast, 262 00:12:52,302 --> 00:12:55,022 Speaker 3: but also that there are some people where this does 263 00:12:55,062 --> 00:12:57,382 Speaker 3: come naturally, and for those of us who maybe it 264 00:12:57,422 --> 00:13:00,342 Speaker 3: doesn't come as naturally and we're a little bit more 265 00:13:00,382 --> 00:13:04,342 Speaker 3: shy or reticent to open up a conversation, sometimes we 266 00:13:04,382 --> 00:13:06,982 Speaker 3: look at people like you and go, what are the 267 00:13:07,022 --> 00:13:08,902 Speaker 3: mechanics behind that? How do yousel? 268 00:13:09,582 --> 00:13:12,262 Speaker 1: Closure is important in the early reviews for No Filter, 269 00:13:12,742 --> 00:13:15,342 Speaker 1: people would always say, Oh, she talks too much about 270 00:13:15,342 --> 00:13:19,662 Speaker 1: herself about me, And that's very deliberate because the way 271 00:13:19,822 --> 00:13:22,142 Speaker 1: you get someone to trust you and the way you 272 00:13:22,222 --> 00:13:24,462 Speaker 1: make them feel like it's more of a conversation and 273 00:13:24,582 --> 00:13:28,702 Speaker 1: less of an interrogation is by being vulnerable first. And 274 00:13:28,782 --> 00:13:31,422 Speaker 1: so I would do that, and what we learned is 275 00:13:31,462 --> 00:13:34,582 Speaker 1: to actually just cut out my bits because no one 276 00:13:34,622 --> 00:13:38,302 Speaker 1: needs to hear my stories. But it works very well. 277 00:13:38,702 --> 00:13:40,862 Speaker 2: So it also can be a good deflection though, because 278 00:13:41,102 --> 00:13:43,022 Speaker 2: if I'm in a small talk situation and I was 279 00:13:43,062 --> 00:13:44,622 Speaker 2: just away on a trip where every day I had 280 00:13:44,662 --> 00:13:46,822 Speaker 2: to sit next to, like not even every day, every 281 00:13:46,862 --> 00:13:49,062 Speaker 2: meal time set next people I didn't know, I don't 282 00:13:49,062 --> 00:13:52,062 Speaker 2: really want to talk about myself in those situations. So 283 00:13:52,542 --> 00:13:55,102 Speaker 2: getting other people to talk about themselves is the key, 284 00:13:55,302 --> 00:13:58,462 Speaker 2: which is a little unfair and a little unbalanced, but 285 00:13:58,622 --> 00:14:01,662 Speaker 2: people love talking about themselves. Once you get them going 286 00:14:01,702 --> 00:14:02,582 Speaker 2: on something, they're passionate. 287 00:14:02,702 --> 00:14:04,782 Speaker 1: Yeah, for me, it's an energy conserving tool as well. 288 00:14:04,822 --> 00:14:07,502 Speaker 1: In a social situation, it's an energy conserving tool because 289 00:14:07,502 --> 00:14:09,942 Speaker 1: most people really do like talking about themselves. You're life hole, 290 00:14:10,302 --> 00:14:12,582 Speaker 1: and it means that I can deflect. I once went 291 00:14:12,622 --> 00:14:14,862 Speaker 1: to dinner with two women who are a couple, and 292 00:14:14,902 --> 00:14:18,182 Speaker 1: I was quite friends with them, and a little way 293 00:14:18,222 --> 00:14:22,342 Speaker 1: in they'd obviously been talking about me, because they went, no, 294 00:14:22,462 --> 00:14:24,622 Speaker 1: that's enough questions for us. We want to ask you 295 00:14:24,742 --> 00:14:25,822 Speaker 1: how you're going. 296 00:14:26,542 --> 00:14:27,262 Speaker 2: I always hate that. 297 00:14:27,942 --> 00:14:31,142 Speaker 1: Yeah, when I'm like, oh, okay, well, clearly I've gone 298 00:14:31,142 --> 00:14:34,462 Speaker 1: into interviewer mode, which I do when I'm tired or 299 00:14:34,942 --> 00:14:36,422 Speaker 1: you know, feeling like talking. 300 00:14:36,702 --> 00:14:40,422 Speaker 3: The second episode had a bunch of stuff about nonverbal communication, 301 00:14:40,782 --> 00:14:42,662 Speaker 3: which you know we talked about a lot, but it 302 00:14:42,742 --> 00:14:46,422 Speaker 3: was it was really specific. So apparently like confidence can 303 00:14:46,462 --> 00:14:49,382 Speaker 3: be read by the distance between your ear lobes and 304 00:14:49,422 --> 00:14:51,302 Speaker 3: your shoulders. That was a big one. What do you 305 00:14:51,382 --> 00:14:56,302 Speaker 3: mean so posture? That's why posture is seen as really important, 306 00:14:56,502 --> 00:15:00,302 Speaker 3: Like when someone stands up straight like they can often 307 00:15:00,342 --> 00:15:02,182 Speaker 3: make you feel a lot more at ease, that sort 308 00:15:02,182 --> 00:15:06,022 Speaker 3: of thing. The second thing was hands on the table, 309 00:15:06,142 --> 00:15:08,102 Speaker 3: so they said that if you're in a business meeting, 310 00:15:08,342 --> 00:15:11,382 Speaker 3: or if you're in a word scenario, let's say you're 311 00:15:11,422 --> 00:15:13,782 Speaker 3: running a meeting, people might walk out and go, I 312 00:15:13,782 --> 00:15:15,462 Speaker 3: don't know, I just got a weird vibe. I just 313 00:15:15,542 --> 00:15:18,182 Speaker 3: wasn't feeling it, and it'll be some unconscious thing that 314 00:15:18,182 --> 00:15:20,062 Speaker 3: they can't even name. But if you had your hands 315 00:15:20,142 --> 00:15:23,502 Speaker 3: under the table, they don't have the same level of trust. 316 00:15:23,542 --> 00:15:25,822 Speaker 1: Bloody, language is really important, so you should never cross 317 00:15:25,862 --> 00:15:28,862 Speaker 1: your arms, always, never have your energy blocked. You will 318 00:15:28,862 --> 00:15:30,982 Speaker 1: instinctively do that as a way to sort of protect 319 00:15:31,022 --> 00:15:34,262 Speaker 1: yourself without even realizing it. The ideal thing is for 320 00:15:34,342 --> 00:15:37,022 Speaker 1: someone to show the inside of their wrists. If you 321 00:15:37,062 --> 00:15:39,302 Speaker 1: can find a way to show the inside of your 322 00:15:39,302 --> 00:15:42,862 Speaker 1: wrists and your palms, that's very disarmy. 323 00:15:42,542 --> 00:15:43,942 Speaker 2: Like dong rolling on their back. 324 00:15:44,022 --> 00:15:47,142 Speaker 1: Correct. And the other way to really show someone that 325 00:15:47,142 --> 00:15:50,862 Speaker 1: you're listening is to tilt your head a dog. Yeah, 326 00:15:50,942 --> 00:15:52,822 Speaker 1: like a dog. You just go like that and raise 327 00:15:52,862 --> 00:15:53,502 Speaker 1: your eyebrows. 328 00:15:53,542 --> 00:15:57,302 Speaker 3: The raising eyebrows it's called an eyebrow flash. You're not 329 00:15:57,342 --> 00:16:00,742 Speaker 3: meant to do it too often, but it says like 330 00:16:00,822 --> 00:16:03,142 Speaker 3: I'm interested in compelled by what you're saying. But I 331 00:16:03,182 --> 00:16:07,742 Speaker 3: was thinking about the impact of injectibles, and our face 332 00:16:07,822 --> 00:16:11,382 Speaker 3: is not moving like maybe they once if you can't 333 00:16:11,422 --> 00:16:14,542 Speaker 3: actually move your eyebrows or even like what do they 334 00:16:14,582 --> 00:16:17,262 Speaker 3: call it when you're like replicating or mirroring the expressions 335 00:16:17,262 --> 00:16:18,302 Speaker 3: of the person you're talking to. 336 00:16:18,422 --> 00:16:21,382 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, as part of this book Charles Doig 337 00:16:21,702 --> 00:16:24,662 Speaker 1: is really interesting, and he said, when you're looking at 338 00:16:24,742 --> 00:16:29,942 Speaker 1: mastering effective communication, there are three different fundamental types of 339 00:16:29,982 --> 00:16:34,582 Speaker 1: conversations that occur in every interaction, right, And the biggest 340 00:16:34,662 --> 00:16:37,502 Speaker 1: chance of miscommunication is when one person thinks they're having 341 00:16:37,542 --> 00:16:40,422 Speaker 1: one type of conversation and someone else thinks they're having another. 342 00:16:40,502 --> 00:16:43,862 Speaker 1: So the three types of practical conversations, which is, you know, 343 00:16:44,022 --> 00:16:47,862 Speaker 1: decision making or problem solving. The second one is emotional conversations, 344 00:16:48,262 --> 00:16:50,862 Speaker 1: how do we feel about feelings, empathy? And the third 345 00:16:50,862 --> 00:16:54,142 Speaker 1: one is social conversations, and that's exploring identity, relationships and 346 00:16:54,182 --> 00:16:57,062 Speaker 1: social roles. And it's so funny that as I was 347 00:16:57,102 --> 00:17:00,422 Speaker 1: prepping for the show and reading about this, I was 348 00:17:00,462 --> 00:17:05,661 Speaker 1: having a text argument with someone and they thought it 349 00:17:05,782 --> 00:17:08,022 Speaker 1: was a man could have been my husband, and he 350 00:17:08,101 --> 00:17:09,222 Speaker 1: thought we were having. 351 00:17:09,022 --> 00:17:12,422 Speaker 3: A practical, a practical conversation, an emotional conversation, and he was. 352 00:17:12,462 --> 00:17:16,581 Speaker 1: Very confused by the enormity of my responses to something 353 00:17:16,621 --> 00:17:20,621 Speaker 1: that seemed really practical. And then I realized in the 354 00:17:20,661 --> 00:17:22,742 Speaker 1: course of the conversation that I was having an emotional 355 00:17:22,742 --> 00:17:26,181 Speaker 1: conversation about how I feel. And I think that happens 356 00:17:26,222 --> 00:17:27,741 Speaker 1: a lot. I know it happens a lot with me. 357 00:17:28,182 --> 00:17:32,302 Speaker 1: When I'm talking to men, including my sons, I'm always 358 00:17:32,341 --> 00:17:35,902 Speaker 1: having an emotional conversation, but they, in most cases think 359 00:17:35,942 --> 00:17:37,502 Speaker 1: that they're having a practical conversation. 360 00:17:38,141 --> 00:17:40,462 Speaker 2: So when was the last time he cried in front 361 00:17:40,502 --> 00:17:41,902 Speaker 2: of someone else? Jesse Stevens. 362 00:17:42,182 --> 00:17:44,061 Speaker 3: The last time I cried in front of someone else 363 00:17:44,542 --> 00:17:47,942 Speaker 3: was in in public cry. I cried in public, which 364 00:17:47,942 --> 00:17:49,621 Speaker 3: is always the worst. You know, things the wheels are 365 00:17:49,621 --> 00:17:52,022 Speaker 3: falling off. Oh yeah, when I was at a medical 366 00:17:52,061 --> 00:17:55,381 Speaker 3: center because Luna had hurt herself and she would not 367 00:17:55,422 --> 00:17:59,742 Speaker 3: stop crying, and I just broke down and the woman 368 00:17:59,782 --> 00:18:02,622 Speaker 3: at reception was so so lovely. Luca walked in, he'd 369 00:18:02,661 --> 00:18:04,982 Speaker 3: been at work and came to get us. He went 370 00:18:05,022 --> 00:18:07,461 Speaker 3: to Luna, and then the woman at reception said, I 371 00:18:07,462 --> 00:18:08,821 Speaker 3: think your wife needs a cuddle. 372 00:18:09,141 --> 00:18:13,381 Speaker 5: Oh, And then that made me cry more, and I 373 00:18:13,422 --> 00:18:15,622 Speaker 5: just I got a mask because I went maybe if 374 00:18:15,621 --> 00:18:17,581 Speaker 5: I wear the mask high enough, no one will see 375 00:18:17,581 --> 00:18:19,421 Speaker 5: the tears under the mask. 376 00:18:19,581 --> 00:18:21,581 Speaker 3: But that was not my finest moment. When was the 377 00:18:21,621 --> 00:18:22,381 Speaker 3: last time you cried? 378 00:18:22,581 --> 00:18:22,741 Speaker 1: You know? 379 00:18:22,821 --> 00:18:25,182 Speaker 2: I have tried very hard to never cry in front 380 00:18:25,182 --> 00:18:27,661 Speaker 2: of other people, even Brent, I hate it. I like 381 00:18:27,702 --> 00:18:32,582 Speaker 2: to cry by myself. That's my preferred crying situation. But 382 00:18:32,782 --> 00:18:35,621 Speaker 2: I did cry, yeah, in front of Brent. He's probably 383 00:18:35,661 --> 00:18:37,341 Speaker 2: the only person who sees me cry very much. And 384 00:18:37,381 --> 00:18:40,782 Speaker 2: it was one of those frustrated It was about tax. 385 00:18:41,702 --> 00:18:45,861 Speaker 2: Of course, Tax makes me cry, just like I feel 386 00:18:45,901 --> 00:18:47,821 Speaker 2: so overwhelmed by all this and why aren't you helping 387 00:18:47,821 --> 00:18:49,222 Speaker 2: me with it? And he's like, I can't. It was 388 00:18:49,262 --> 00:18:53,702 Speaker 2: one of those conversations which was not Again, he probably 389 00:18:53,742 --> 00:18:57,221 Speaker 2: thought he was having a practical conversation. I thought we 390 00:18:57,222 --> 00:18:59,061 Speaker 2: were going to see the bookkeeper and I'm like. 391 00:18:58,982 --> 00:18:59,942 Speaker 6: But you don't understand. 392 00:18:59,982 --> 00:19:01,901 Speaker 2: I'm sorry overwhelmed and. 393 00:19:02,061 --> 00:19:03,381 Speaker 3: Tax is never not emotional. 394 00:19:03,542 --> 00:19:03,742 Speaker 2: Maya. 395 00:19:04,302 --> 00:19:06,942 Speaker 1: I went through a long period of crying a lot, 396 00:19:07,782 --> 00:19:11,901 Speaker 1: including at work when I was really overwhelmed, really frustrated, 397 00:19:11,901 --> 00:19:14,381 Speaker 1: which is there's just nothing worse than crying in a 398 00:19:14,422 --> 00:19:17,582 Speaker 1: work situation because women will often cry in those situations 399 00:19:18,141 --> 00:19:22,261 Speaker 1: because they're frustrated or they're frustrated with themselves or whatever 400 00:19:22,302 --> 00:19:24,222 Speaker 1: it is. And that was the case with me. I 401 00:19:24,262 --> 00:19:26,382 Speaker 1: was just annoyed at myself. But that was a long 402 00:19:26,422 --> 00:19:28,581 Speaker 1: time ago. I haven't cried at work for ages, not 403 00:19:28,982 --> 00:19:31,902 Speaker 1: for years, but it would have been with Jason he's 404 00:19:31,942 --> 00:19:35,341 Speaker 1: usually the only one that sees me cry. And again, 405 00:19:35,542 --> 00:19:38,381 Speaker 1: not as much like when I was going through perimenopause, 406 00:19:38,581 --> 00:19:41,341 Speaker 1: I reckon I cried every day. I was so easy 407 00:19:41,381 --> 00:19:44,381 Speaker 1: to cry, not always in front of people, often in 408 00:19:44,381 --> 00:19:47,101 Speaker 1: front of people, and to the point where I just 409 00:19:47,302 --> 00:19:49,862 Speaker 1: felt like I had no control. And there've been other 410 00:19:49,901 --> 00:19:52,621 Speaker 1: times when when I was taking you know, I still do, 411 00:19:52,702 --> 00:19:55,821 Speaker 1: but at the start of taking antimsa iity medication, I 412 00:19:55,901 --> 00:19:58,222 Speaker 1: sort of didn't cry for about five or six years 413 00:19:58,262 --> 00:20:02,341 Speaker 1: full stop. But there's something that's just so vulnerable in 414 00:20:02,381 --> 00:20:03,661 Speaker 1: crying in front of other people. 415 00:20:04,302 --> 00:20:05,982 Speaker 3: You know. The thing that I love the most about 416 00:20:06,022 --> 00:20:09,382 Speaker 3: this is that with talk and the election and politics 417 00:20:09,422 --> 00:20:11,742 Speaker 3: and vision and all that kind of stuff, the idea 418 00:20:11,742 --> 00:20:13,902 Speaker 3: that there are so many other things to talk about, yeah, 419 00:20:13,901 --> 00:20:16,502 Speaker 3: and so many other things that are actually connective to 420 00:20:16,621 --> 00:20:20,381 Speaker 3: you that we ignore that we can find in other people, 421 00:20:20,542 --> 00:20:24,302 Speaker 3: and that there's a lot of whether it's surface or not, 422 00:20:24,621 --> 00:20:28,902 Speaker 3: but there are ways to have enriching and meaningful conversations 423 00:20:28,901 --> 00:20:30,942 Speaker 3: with literally anyone. 424 00:20:31,022 --> 00:20:31,182 Speaker 1: Yeah. 425 00:20:31,182 --> 00:20:33,141 Speaker 2: Can I ask you if our out loud as are 426 00:20:33,141 --> 00:20:36,022 Speaker 2: going to a long weeken barbecue, what do you reckon? 427 00:20:36,022 --> 00:20:38,782 Speaker 2: Are three of these magic questions that aren't necessarily like 428 00:20:38,861 --> 00:20:41,421 Speaker 2: the really deep show me all your insides, Yeah, but 429 00:20:41,502 --> 00:20:44,222 Speaker 2: are really good ones from the list for that kind 430 00:20:44,302 --> 00:20:45,022 Speaker 2: of situation. 431 00:20:45,222 --> 00:20:49,221 Speaker 3: This one, and I remember reading something about it. Someone 432 00:20:49,302 --> 00:20:52,702 Speaker 3: clever has said it before, which is some version of 433 00:20:52,782 --> 00:20:55,022 Speaker 3: what are you most passionate about? What are you passionate about? 434 00:20:55,022 --> 00:20:56,781 Speaker 3: What are you interested in at the moment? Something like that. 435 00:20:57,022 --> 00:20:59,381 Speaker 1: I know Elizabeth Gilbert, that's what she asked, because you 436 00:20:59,381 --> 00:21:03,702 Speaker 1: can imagine meeting someone like that, they're constantly people wanting 437 00:21:03,742 --> 00:21:05,022 Speaker 1: to talk to them. And it was a very good 438 00:21:05,061 --> 00:21:08,262 Speaker 1: deflecting conversation. She said, what are you excited about right now? 439 00:21:09,381 --> 00:21:12,142 Speaker 1: I thought that was great because in terms of passionate, 440 00:21:12,182 --> 00:21:15,982 Speaker 1: that can almost be a bit of pressure, like, oh god, I'm. 441 00:21:16,302 --> 00:21:17,061 Speaker 3: What are you excited about? 442 00:21:17,101 --> 00:21:19,461 Speaker 1: What are you excited about right now? And immediately I 443 00:21:19,462 --> 00:21:20,981 Speaker 1: could tell her. I told her about this book that 444 00:21:21,022 --> 00:21:22,661 Speaker 1: I was, you know, in the middle of writing, and 445 00:21:22,702 --> 00:21:25,381 Speaker 1: she ended up endorsing that book. It was such a 446 00:21:25,462 --> 00:21:29,061 Speaker 1: clever question because I could tell she didn't want to talk, 447 00:21:30,182 --> 00:21:32,981 Speaker 1: but it was a generous question, and you know, I 448 00:21:32,982 --> 00:21:34,621 Speaker 1: thought it was really it was a good one, what 449 00:21:34,661 --> 00:21:37,661 Speaker 1: are you excited about right now? Also, I just always 450 00:21:37,702 --> 00:21:39,262 Speaker 1: ask what should I watch next? 451 00:21:40,141 --> 00:21:41,542 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's good small talk if you're. 452 00:21:41,422 --> 00:21:43,262 Speaker 1: Reaching for something. I know that small talk. It's not 453 00:21:43,302 --> 00:21:46,661 Speaker 1: a particularly deep question, but it can. The key I 454 00:21:46,702 --> 00:21:49,222 Speaker 1: think is follow up questions. When you're talking to someone, 455 00:21:49,222 --> 00:21:51,022 Speaker 1: you've just got to listen to what they're saying and 456 00:21:51,661 --> 00:21:54,542 Speaker 1: look for the openings in what they're saying. That are 457 00:21:54,581 --> 00:21:56,621 Speaker 1: the tangents out loud. 458 00:21:56,422 --> 00:21:58,181 Speaker 2: As in a moment. It's stuff to read and stuff 459 00:21:58,182 --> 00:22:08,222 Speaker 2: to smear on your mouth. Come back for our recommendations, vibes, ideas, atmosphere, 460 00:22:08,542 --> 00:22:10,141 Speaker 2: something usual file. 461 00:22:10,661 --> 00:22:13,342 Speaker 1: This is my best recommendation. Good. 462 00:22:13,381 --> 00:22:15,662 Speaker 2: Look, it's Friday, so of course you want to help 463 00:22:15,702 --> 00:22:18,302 Speaker 2: me set up your weekend. Who wants to go first? 464 00:22:18,341 --> 00:22:20,182 Speaker 2: You two have been away, You've probably got someone. Yes. 465 00:22:20,141 --> 00:22:22,221 Speaker 3: I actually I've brilliant one. 466 00:22:22,262 --> 00:22:22,901 Speaker 2: I have such a good one. 467 00:22:22,982 --> 00:22:25,462 Speaker 3: I have a book and I had heard so many 468 00:22:25,462 --> 00:22:28,941 Speaker 3: people recommend this book. But it is historical fiction, and 469 00:22:28,982 --> 00:22:30,701 Speaker 3: I thought it sounded like hard work, and I was like, 470 00:22:30,942 --> 00:22:33,941 Speaker 3: I want to relax. It just delivered everything that I 471 00:22:33,982 --> 00:22:36,901 Speaker 3: possibly wanted, and every review is spot on. It is 472 00:22:36,982 --> 00:22:39,941 Speaker 3: a book called The Safe Keep by yah Elle vander Odin. 473 00:22:40,222 --> 00:22:42,341 Speaker 3: It was nominated, I think it was long listed for 474 00:22:42,341 --> 00:22:44,942 Speaker 3: the Booker Prize this year. Like it is very, very buzzy, 475 00:22:45,182 --> 00:22:48,181 Speaker 3: but it's about a woman named Isabelle who lives in 476 00:22:48,222 --> 00:22:50,581 Speaker 3: this house in the Netherlands post World War Two, so 477 00:22:50,621 --> 00:22:54,302 Speaker 3: it's nineteen sixty one. Her brother's girlfriend comes and stays 478 00:22:54,302 --> 00:22:57,022 Speaker 3: with her for a summer, and it's about the relationship 479 00:22:57,302 --> 00:23:01,821 Speaker 3: that evolves between the two of them. It's sexy, it's 480 00:23:01,821 --> 00:23:06,901 Speaker 3: a sexy book, but there's also a fascinating twist that 481 00:23:06,982 --> 00:23:09,821 Speaker 3: complicates the whole thing. It is stunningly written, and it's 482 00:23:09,821 --> 00:23:14,582 Speaker 3: like quite poetic, but also really insightful about what Europe 483 00:23:14,581 --> 00:23:19,341 Speaker 3: looked like in the decades after World War Two. I 484 00:23:19,341 --> 00:23:23,902 Speaker 3: imagined that, and I've studied World War Two. I didn't 485 00:23:24,022 --> 00:23:26,581 Speaker 3: realize that what country you went back to, whether you 486 00:23:26,661 --> 00:23:29,182 Speaker 3: went back to if you were a Jewish person who 487 00:23:29,742 --> 00:23:32,821 Speaker 3: ended up in the camps in World War Two, I 488 00:23:32,942 --> 00:23:36,902 Speaker 3: thought that countries looked after you, that Sweden or France 489 00:23:37,222 --> 00:23:40,421 Speaker 3: or the Netherlands looked after you very different depending on 490 00:23:40,462 --> 00:23:43,581 Speaker 3: where you went back to. And this is about what 491 00:23:43,901 --> 00:23:47,862 Speaker 3: was lost and what's yours and fascinating, fascinating. So it's 492 00:23:47,861 --> 00:23:50,262 Speaker 3: called The Safe Keep. You must read it. 493 00:23:50,302 --> 00:23:51,982 Speaker 2: I'm going to jump in because I've got a silly one, 494 00:23:51,982 --> 00:23:54,461 Speaker 2: whereas I think is a smart too, because it's just 495 00:23:54,502 --> 00:23:56,942 Speaker 2: a lipstick, you know how, maybe. 496 00:23:56,661 --> 00:23:59,581 Speaker 1: Not all from lipsticks are very important. 497 00:23:59,742 --> 00:24:02,782 Speaker 2: We were recently recording our Apple Show. Do you remember 498 00:24:03,182 --> 00:24:05,661 Speaker 2: we were before our Apple Show recently? Emilia Lester was 499 00:24:05,661 --> 00:24:07,421 Speaker 2: there and she just said to me, Holly showed me 500 00:24:07,462 --> 00:24:08,702 Speaker 2: all the lip products in your bag. 501 00:24:08,901 --> 00:24:12,542 Speaker 3: You know how much at open questions, Flia is such 502 00:24:12,702 --> 00:24:15,141 Speaker 3: she should write the thirty six questions for hollywaen I 503 00:24:15,302 --> 00:24:16,901 Speaker 3: fall in love with you and the first question is 504 00:24:17,621 --> 00:24:18,342 Speaker 3: I think that's. 505 00:24:18,141 --> 00:24:20,742 Speaker 1: Maybe why shee I fell in love so fast as friends. 506 00:24:21,381 --> 00:24:23,861 Speaker 2: Because I do always have twenty five lip products in 507 00:24:23,901 --> 00:24:27,061 Speaker 2: my bag at any one time. And today or yesterday, 508 00:24:27,101 --> 00:24:29,821 Speaker 2: I was clearing out my bag and I realized the 509 00:24:29,942 --> 00:24:32,302 Speaker 2: most used because it's the one I have to replace 510 00:24:32,341 --> 00:24:34,941 Speaker 2: the most often. And I was like, I should just 511 00:24:35,022 --> 00:24:38,021 Speaker 2: recommend that it's a bit basic, but hey, and it is. 512 00:24:38,901 --> 00:24:42,302 Speaker 2: Nas it's like a lip bar, it's a bag, it's 513 00:24:42,302 --> 00:24:44,302 Speaker 2: a barm so it's like shiny shear. 514 00:24:44,581 --> 00:24:46,861 Speaker 3: Okay, it's sheer, but it's pigmented. 515 00:24:46,982 --> 00:24:49,141 Speaker 2: It's pigmented, but just a little bit. But the good 516 00:24:49,141 --> 00:24:51,262 Speaker 2: thing about it is because it's called afterglow Right. The 517 00:24:51,302 --> 00:24:53,742 Speaker 2: shade I was called Dolceavida and it's forty six dollars, 518 00:24:53,742 --> 00:24:55,381 Speaker 2: which is a lot of money. But the thing that 519 00:24:55,502 --> 00:24:57,941 Speaker 2: is great about it and I have used many times, 520 00:24:58,381 --> 00:25:01,902 Speaker 2: is because it's so popular at Dubecity. Soh m COD 521 00:25:01,982 --> 00:25:04,822 Speaker 2: do a version very similar, even in the same square 522 00:25:04,821 --> 00:25:06,421 Speaker 2: thing because the thing I love about the square thing 523 00:25:06,462 --> 00:25:08,061 Speaker 2: it's easy to find in my bag with all the 524 00:25:08,101 --> 00:25:09,022 Speaker 2: other lip products. 525 00:25:09,061 --> 00:25:11,342 Speaker 1: And also don't pull out a tampon misteak, you. 526 00:25:11,341 --> 00:25:14,141 Speaker 2: Just reach for the square one. Mco Dupe one is 527 00:25:14,182 --> 00:25:17,542 Speaker 2: eleven bucks and they've got the same shade, what's very 528 00:25:17,542 --> 00:25:18,622 Speaker 2: similar shade. 529 00:25:18,422 --> 00:25:21,782 Speaker 3: I've used that dole. They're brilliant and they're really good 530 00:25:22,141 --> 00:25:23,542 Speaker 3: if you don't want to look like you've got a 531 00:25:23,542 --> 00:25:25,382 Speaker 3: full on lipy, like if you want something to. 532 00:25:25,381 --> 00:25:28,622 Speaker 2: Like it, it's a little bit done but not color yeap. 533 00:25:28,661 --> 00:25:30,141 Speaker 2: And the other thing is if you don't have like 534 00:25:30,182 --> 00:25:31,701 Speaker 2: just a lip balm and your lips are feeling dry, 535 00:25:31,742 --> 00:25:33,542 Speaker 2: it's like that in between and then in between the 536 00:25:33,702 --> 00:25:36,302 Speaker 2: MC and the nas Mecha Dooo one too. It's about 537 00:25:36,302 --> 00:25:39,661 Speaker 2: thirty bucks, and so they're like a lip balm with 538 00:25:39,742 --> 00:25:42,821 Speaker 2: a bit of tint that I realize I use down 539 00:25:42,901 --> 00:25:45,262 Speaker 2: to the absolute stop all the. 540 00:25:45,782 --> 00:25:47,261 Speaker 3: You know what, I'm just going to throw in an 541 00:25:47,262 --> 00:25:49,061 Speaker 3: extra one. This is a product that I use every 542 00:25:49,061 --> 00:25:50,981 Speaker 3: single day that I just every now and then go, 543 00:25:51,022 --> 00:25:54,901 Speaker 3: this is a great products. Lana Lips Lips with a 544 00:25:54,901 --> 00:25:58,741 Speaker 3: little bit of pigment. Single day I put that on 545 00:25:58,782 --> 00:26:01,462 Speaker 3: my lip and it just I never get chapped and 546 00:26:01,502 --> 00:26:02,902 Speaker 3: it's just so good love. 547 00:26:03,182 --> 00:26:04,462 Speaker 2: Okay, maya take this away. 548 00:26:04,742 --> 00:26:07,661 Speaker 1: I always get really excited about recommending a book or 549 00:26:07,661 --> 00:26:09,502 Speaker 1: a TV show, and then I realized that my record 550 00:26:09,782 --> 00:26:11,941 Speaker 1: are just whatever you guys have recommended. But like a 551 00:26:11,942 --> 00:26:14,982 Speaker 1: month later, so I've had to dig deep and I 552 00:26:14,982 --> 00:26:17,302 Speaker 1: actually I'm going to recommend an article I read on 553 00:26:17,422 --> 00:26:21,782 Speaker 1: Muma Mia about leg lengthening surgery. This is a bit 554 00:26:21,821 --> 00:26:24,422 Speaker 1: of a personal obsession of mine, not because I want 555 00:26:24,422 --> 00:26:26,462 Speaker 1: to have it done, but just because I've always been 556 00:26:26,621 --> 00:26:29,061 Speaker 1: fascinated by it and I didn't know that it was 557 00:26:29,061 --> 00:26:31,542 Speaker 1: happening in Australia and I didn't know that women were 558 00:26:31,581 --> 00:26:31,981 Speaker 1: getting it. 559 00:26:32,101 --> 00:26:36,181 Speaker 3: Wait, so it's an elective. Women in Australia can choose 560 00:26:36,222 --> 00:26:38,861 Speaker 3: to get their legs lengthened taller. 561 00:26:39,141 --> 00:26:43,262 Speaker 1: So it's a surgery that was originally I guess created 562 00:26:43,341 --> 00:26:47,061 Speaker 1: or pioneered for people who had defects in their legs 563 00:26:47,141 --> 00:26:49,861 Speaker 1: or needed to be taller for you know, I guess 564 00:26:49,942 --> 00:26:51,181 Speaker 1: health reasons, or had made like. 565 00:26:51,182 --> 00:26:53,221 Speaker 3: A discrepancy and they're left in their right because that 566 00:26:53,222 --> 00:26:53,982 Speaker 3: can cause heaps. 567 00:26:53,821 --> 00:26:56,462 Speaker 1: Of issues, exactly right. And so now in the same 568 00:26:56,502 --> 00:26:58,422 Speaker 1: way that a lot of things that are now used 569 00:26:58,502 --> 00:27:03,941 Speaker 1: esthetically were originally used for medical reasons, so it is 570 00:27:03,942 --> 00:27:07,101 Speaker 1: with leg lengthening surgery. So what happens is they basically 571 00:27:07,141 --> 00:27:10,022 Speaker 1: break your legs. They break both of your legs, They 572 00:27:10,101 --> 00:27:13,621 Speaker 1: put them in cages, and then there are like magnets 573 00:27:13,661 --> 00:27:16,501 Speaker 1: in the bone and they keep stretching them like by 574 00:27:16,462 --> 00:27:17,701 Speaker 1: a millimeter. 575 00:27:17,381 --> 00:27:23,421 Speaker 3: Every stay because you would need something the bone. 576 00:27:23,581 --> 00:27:25,862 Speaker 1: So what it does is that it's like your bone 577 00:27:25,982 --> 00:27:28,742 Speaker 1: thinks I learned this in the article. Your bone thinks 578 00:27:28,742 --> 00:27:31,381 Speaker 1: it's been fractured, so it rushes to repair it, and 579 00:27:31,381 --> 00:27:35,661 Speaker 1: it like builds new bone around so it's taller. You 580 00:27:35,702 --> 00:27:40,382 Speaker 1: can get a few centimeters. It's really disturbing just where 581 00:27:41,182 --> 00:27:43,181 Speaker 1: so in America a lot of men are doing it. 582 00:27:43,262 --> 00:27:45,821 Speaker 1: You know, short kings. Not everybody can marry a cock edman. 583 00:27:45,982 --> 00:27:49,462 Speaker 1: Some short kings just want to be taller, and so 584 00:27:49,861 --> 00:27:51,381 Speaker 1: a lot of men used to get it. I read 585 00:27:51,422 --> 00:27:53,942 Speaker 1: a really long piece in GQ about it many years ago, 586 00:27:54,302 --> 00:27:57,821 Speaker 1: but now it's not a common procedure. It's very controversial 587 00:27:57,821 --> 00:28:02,582 Speaker 1: among orthopedic surgeons because it's correct purely elective. I mean, 588 00:28:02,581 --> 00:28:05,061 Speaker 1: the recovery and the pain and all of those things 589 00:28:05,341 --> 00:28:09,022 Speaker 1: is immense. It's very expensive. You don't get anything back 590 00:28:09,022 --> 00:28:11,582 Speaker 1: on Medicare, which is actually good to know because if 591 00:28:11,581 --> 00:28:13,542 Speaker 1: that's where our Medicare dollars were going, it would be 592 00:28:13,542 --> 00:28:17,902 Speaker 1: a problem. But it's just a fascinating article. We'll put 593 00:28:17,901 --> 00:28:20,661 Speaker 1: a link to it in the show notes after the 594 00:28:20,702 --> 00:28:24,222 Speaker 1: break the camping, Nicole family, holiday sickness, and some feedback 595 00:28:24,222 --> 00:28:26,981 Speaker 1: for Nana. It is our best and Worst of the week. 596 00:28:27,661 --> 00:28:31,622 Speaker 3: Want unlimited out loud access. We drop episodes every Tuesday 597 00:28:31,661 --> 00:28:35,861 Speaker 3: and Thursday exclusively for Mum and MEA subscribers. Follow the 598 00:28:35,942 --> 00:28:37,782 Speaker 3: link in the show notes to get us in your 599 00:28:37,821 --> 00:28:40,661 Speaker 3: ears five days a week. And a huge thank you 600 00:28:40,782 --> 00:28:47,181 Speaker 3: to all our current subscribers. 601 00:28:52,661 --> 00:28:55,501 Speaker 1: It's time for best and Worst, the peaks the troughs 602 00:28:55,542 --> 00:28:58,981 Speaker 1: of our lives. Holly, you go first, what's your worst 603 00:28:59,062 --> 00:28:59,741 Speaker 1: of the week? 604 00:29:00,022 --> 00:29:03,502 Speaker 2: So regular outlouders well know, and as you certainly do 605 00:29:03,742 --> 00:29:06,662 Speaker 2: that every Easter I go camping with my original Mothers group, 606 00:29:06,742 --> 00:29:08,981 Speaker 2: so much so that I have written a book inspired by. 607 00:29:08,862 --> 00:29:11,582 Speaker 3: That weekend I went. It's good weather for Hollies camp. 608 00:29:11,822 --> 00:29:13,382 Speaker 3: It was because sometimes it's miserable. 609 00:29:13,422 --> 00:29:16,421 Speaker 2: Oh Easter weekend was glorious. So it's my best and 610 00:29:16,462 --> 00:29:18,542 Speaker 2: my worst. But the worst was the fact that it's 611 00:29:18,542 --> 00:29:20,622 Speaker 2: making an appearance of my worst is actually sparked by 612 00:29:20,782 --> 00:29:23,501 Speaker 2: an out louder's post this week, which made me realize 613 00:29:23,502 --> 00:29:26,702 Speaker 2: a cold hard truth about myself. Right, so, an out 614 00:29:26,742 --> 00:29:30,181 Speaker 2: louder called Rose May Foster posted in the out Louder's 615 00:29:30,182 --> 00:29:33,622 Speaker 2: Facebook gred, this was so good that she is in 616 00:29:33,702 --> 00:29:36,342 Speaker 2: the coal and she is going camping for the first 617 00:29:36,342 --> 00:29:38,862 Speaker 2: time with a group of families, just like I do. 618 00:29:38,902 --> 00:29:40,981 Speaker 2: Just so any out louders who aren't familiar with our 619 00:29:41,022 --> 00:29:44,062 Speaker 2: law no nicoles. It was a term coined by the 620 00:29:44,102 --> 00:29:47,181 Speaker 2: great Australian comedian Geraldine Hickey, but it's the name for 621 00:29:47,342 --> 00:29:50,981 Speaker 2: a woman in a friendship group who always does the organizing. 622 00:29:51,342 --> 00:29:53,782 Speaker 2: She's the one who books the table and knows sends 623 00:29:53,782 --> 00:29:56,582 Speaker 2: around the menu and all that. In the Easter context, 624 00:29:56,782 --> 00:30:00,062 Speaker 2: our out louder is in a coal and so she said. 625 00:30:00,142 --> 00:30:02,582 Speaker 2: The weeks before, she was sending messages to the group 626 00:30:02,661 --> 00:30:05,462 Speaker 2: being like, should we group by this? Should we group 627 00:30:05,502 --> 00:30:07,302 Speaker 2: by that? And everyone was like, don't worry about it, 628 00:30:07,342 --> 00:30:08,781 Speaker 2: We're chill, don't worry about it. 629 00:30:09,302 --> 00:30:09,701 Speaker 1: She right. 630 00:30:09,862 --> 00:30:11,542 Speaker 2: Then it comes to have we got enough eggs? She 631 00:30:11,582 --> 00:30:14,622 Speaker 2: means Easter eggs? Yes, is the collective reply. But a 632 00:30:14,702 --> 00:30:18,702 Speaker 2: nicole knows to dig deeper, says Rose. Person one has 633 00:30:18,702 --> 00:30:21,382 Speaker 2: big eggs, Person two has small eggs. Person three has 634 00:30:21,661 --> 00:30:24,582 Speaker 2: little kinder bunnies. Yes, there's enough chocolate to feed all 635 00:30:24,582 --> 00:30:26,142 Speaker 2: the kids, but do they all have the same or 636 00:30:26,182 --> 00:30:28,102 Speaker 2: will there be tears? Am I the only one who 637 00:30:28,142 --> 00:30:29,862 Speaker 2: thinks that the kids will crack it if the bunny 638 00:30:29,902 --> 00:30:32,622 Speaker 2: brings visibly different things for different kids. Don't even get 639 00:30:32,661 --> 00:30:34,822 Speaker 2: me started on the baskets and the ears. And one 640 00:30:34,822 --> 00:30:36,822 Speaker 2: of the girls is like, oh, that's awesome. We should 641 00:30:36,822 --> 00:30:38,342 Speaker 2: have just let you organize it, and she's. 642 00:30:38,222 --> 00:30:39,622 Speaker 3: Like, I'm losing my mind. 643 00:30:40,422 --> 00:30:42,302 Speaker 2: She was on your trip. She has could have been 644 00:30:42,942 --> 00:30:43,421 Speaker 2: my friend. 645 00:30:43,542 --> 00:30:43,902 Speaker 3: Yeah. 646 00:30:43,942 --> 00:30:46,582 Speaker 1: I haven't had to buy Easter eggs for children for 647 00:30:46,702 --> 00:30:49,542 Speaker 1: some time now, and I've been alarmed to see these 648 00:30:49,661 --> 00:30:53,501 Speaker 1: new trend of Easter baskets all over social media, and 649 00:30:53,582 --> 00:30:57,142 Speaker 1: people making Easter baskets almost like a Christmas stocking filled 650 00:30:57,142 --> 00:30:57,902 Speaker 1: with presents. 651 00:30:58,062 --> 00:31:01,221 Speaker 2: Yeah, sometimes we don't do any of that. But what 652 00:31:01,382 --> 00:31:04,542 Speaker 2: this post made me realize is I am always the 653 00:31:04,542 --> 00:31:06,822 Speaker 2: person who goes, don't worry about it, right, I'm always 654 00:31:06,862 --> 00:31:09,262 Speaker 2: the person We've got loads of chocolate, don't even worry 655 00:31:09,262 --> 00:31:10,902 Speaker 2: about it. I haven't even thought about it. And then 656 00:31:10,902 --> 00:31:14,022 Speaker 2: I get there and go, oh, that's right. This nicole 657 00:31:14,702 --> 00:31:18,942 Speaker 2: hates me, like, not me personally, but all I represent 658 00:31:19,142 --> 00:31:21,742 Speaker 2: in the world, which is like she'll be long had 659 00:31:21,782 --> 00:31:23,981 Speaker 2: looking them whole of mirrors. I have friends like this 660 00:31:24,022 --> 00:31:25,782 Speaker 2: who will be the one who when your child is 661 00:31:25,782 --> 00:31:28,062 Speaker 2: melting down because indeed, you only got them a shitty 662 00:31:28,102 --> 00:31:30,782 Speaker 2: little kinder surprise and someone else got a giant six 663 00:31:30,822 --> 00:31:33,462 Speaker 2: foot bunny has thought of that and has brought a spare. 664 00:31:33,702 --> 00:31:37,502 Speaker 1: Also, you could use it as an opportunity to teach resilience. 665 00:31:37,102 --> 00:31:38,862 Speaker 2: Well you could, And that's the way I look at it. 666 00:31:38,862 --> 00:31:39,902 Speaker 1: Me capitalism. 667 00:31:40,102 --> 00:31:42,942 Speaker 2: If my kid doesn't get the Easter egg of their dreams, 668 00:31:43,182 --> 00:31:46,382 Speaker 2: deal with its sister anyway. So my worst realization that 669 00:31:46,462 --> 00:31:49,222 Speaker 2: I am indeed a terrible friend in and the bane 670 00:31:49,262 --> 00:31:52,462 Speaker 2: of all nicholes everywhere. But my best was the Easter 671 00:31:52,542 --> 00:31:55,382 Speaker 2: camping because although I always moan about it, and we 672 00:31:55,422 --> 00:31:58,822 Speaker 2: did indeed end up, I moan about the labor involved. 673 00:32:00,142 --> 00:32:02,102 Speaker 2: We did end up sleeping on the floor because the 674 00:32:02,142 --> 00:32:05,302 Speaker 2: blow up mattress collapsed. And the kids who are teenagers 675 00:32:05,342 --> 00:32:08,221 Speaker 2: definitely are getting naughtier as they like in a different 676 00:32:08,222 --> 00:32:09,902 Speaker 2: way than they were when they were little, and so 677 00:32:09,982 --> 00:32:14,422 Speaker 2: there's more vigilance required in that regard, and sometimes there's 678 00:32:14,462 --> 00:32:16,502 Speaker 2: where they were shoes and all that. It is actually 679 00:32:16,742 --> 00:32:19,102 Speaker 2: definitely one of my favorite times of the year because 680 00:32:19,262 --> 00:32:21,102 Speaker 2: these women that I go on this trip with and 681 00:32:21,142 --> 00:32:25,142 Speaker 2: their partners, they are funny and we have known each 682 00:32:25,182 --> 00:32:27,342 Speaker 2: other a long time, and watching the way the kids 683 00:32:27,342 --> 00:32:29,142 Speaker 2: interact with each other is so entertained. 684 00:32:29,142 --> 00:32:30,182 Speaker 1: How many kids are they now? 685 00:32:30,342 --> 00:32:34,062 Speaker 2: There would be like fifteen kids, oh wow, maybe more. 686 00:32:34,222 --> 00:32:36,382 Speaker 2: And the thing is is, you know that girls grow first, 687 00:32:36,702 --> 00:32:38,582 Speaker 2: So the last few years the girls have been quite 688 00:32:38,582 --> 00:32:40,422 Speaker 2: grown up and the boys haven't. And then this year 689 00:32:40,502 --> 00:32:42,622 Speaker 2: all the boys are like six foot and they've. 690 00:32:42,502 --> 00:32:46,902 Speaker 6: All got shoulders, like, oh wow, we're actually camping. We 691 00:32:47,022 --> 00:32:48,941 Speaker 6: just a whole lot of people, but we still had 692 00:32:48,982 --> 00:32:50,382 Speaker 6: to do an egg hunt, they still had to be 693 00:32:50,742 --> 00:32:52,542 Speaker 6: even though they were like, we didn't need ag hunt. 694 00:32:52,582 --> 00:32:53,981 Speaker 2: Then on Easter Sunder, they were all. 695 00:32:53,822 --> 00:32:55,382 Speaker 1: Like, where where's the egg hut? 696 00:32:55,982 --> 00:32:58,181 Speaker 2: And because Brent had gone off camping first without me 697 00:32:58,182 --> 00:32:59,902 Speaker 2: because I was doing something else, and I met him there, 698 00:33:00,022 --> 00:33:02,902 Speaker 2: obviously he hadn't remembered any of the eggs, so I 699 00:33:02,942 --> 00:33:05,941 Speaker 2: had to do an early morning supermarket Easter bunny swoop 700 00:33:06,022 --> 00:33:08,582 Speaker 2: on Sunday. Anyway, it was the best of times, the 701 00:33:08,622 --> 00:33:10,181 Speaker 2: worst of times, and I loved it, and that was 702 00:33:10,222 --> 00:33:10,862 Speaker 2: my used to camp. 703 00:33:11,622 --> 00:33:15,941 Speaker 3: My worst was we went on holiday last week with 704 00:33:16,062 --> 00:33:17,461 Speaker 3: the in laws with. 705 00:33:19,022 --> 00:33:20,782 Speaker 2: Two together ye. 706 00:33:22,142 --> 00:33:25,822 Speaker 3: Generations, that's what we were. It was delightful. But the 707 00:33:25,942 --> 00:33:29,222 Speaker 3: day that we actually got there, Luna got sick, right, 708 00:33:29,302 --> 00:33:30,902 Speaker 3: so she was sick, and then I think she managed 709 00:33:30,902 --> 00:33:34,062 Speaker 3: to make everyone sick. There was tonsladis going around And 710 00:33:34,142 --> 00:33:36,502 Speaker 3: I said, nearly every day, I said, I've actually never 711 00:33:36,542 --> 00:33:37,222 Speaker 3: felt so well. 712 00:33:38,582 --> 00:33:40,302 Speaker 2: You said that, I know, well. 713 00:33:40,622 --> 00:33:43,142 Speaker 1: I wanted to touch wood, I wanted to go spit 714 00:33:43,262 --> 00:33:43,782 Speaker 1: on the ground. 715 00:33:43,982 --> 00:33:45,981 Speaker 3: YEP, I said, I am feeling because you know, you 716 00:33:46,022 --> 00:33:48,502 Speaker 3: keep checking in, you go nap. Never felt better. I'm 717 00:33:48,542 --> 00:33:52,022 Speaker 3: feeling really healthy. My throat is top notch. 718 00:33:51,942 --> 00:33:54,461 Speaker 1: And she needed to say this a lot because in 719 00:33:54,502 --> 00:33:58,461 Speaker 1: the past she's been patient zero that has infected the 720 00:33:58,502 --> 00:33:59,382 Speaker 1: wide effect. 721 00:33:59,102 --> 00:34:02,102 Speaker 3: And I needed everyone to know that I wasn't patient zero. 722 00:34:02,542 --> 00:34:05,542 Speaker 3: Luna was taken up with her anyway. I keep going 723 00:34:05,982 --> 00:34:10,622 Speaker 3: feeling great, looking great, just like I'm active lively. She said, 724 00:34:10,782 --> 00:34:13,942 Speaker 3: never ever better, You ever felt better. And then on 725 00:34:14,222 --> 00:34:17,382 Speaker 3: the Monday night, I went to bed, slept like a 726 00:34:17,422 --> 00:34:20,062 Speaker 3: dream because I was feeling so well, and then at 727 00:34:20,382 --> 00:34:23,741 Speaker 3: one am woke up and went, oh, And that's when 728 00:34:23,741 --> 00:34:28,301 Speaker 3: the vomiting started. And for about nine hours I think 729 00:34:28,502 --> 00:34:31,341 Speaker 3: on the hour, got up through up, oh, and it 730 00:34:31,422 --> 00:34:33,462 Speaker 3: was like the first one, I went, maybe this is 731 00:34:33,502 --> 00:34:36,062 Speaker 3: a one off. And then when the second one happened, 732 00:34:36,062 --> 00:34:38,102 Speaker 3: I went, this is not a one off. And it 733 00:34:38,221 --> 00:34:40,542 Speaker 3: just kept going. And what I forgot about food poisoning 734 00:34:40,822 --> 00:34:42,862 Speaker 3: and I don't know what I ate, which is so annoying, 735 00:34:43,181 --> 00:34:44,902 Speaker 3: and no one else got sick, so no idea what 736 00:34:44,942 --> 00:34:48,742 Speaker 3: it was. But once the throwing up stopped, I felt 737 00:34:49,142 --> 00:34:53,542 Speaker 3: like shit for days, like the dehydration and your whole 738 00:34:53,542 --> 00:34:58,422 Speaker 3: body sore and you're tired, appetite wasn't great. Ended up 739 00:34:58,422 --> 00:34:59,661 Speaker 3: having to go to the doctor because I was like, 740 00:34:59,701 --> 00:35:03,382 Speaker 3: I still feel terrible, and she said, You've got to 741 00:35:03,422 --> 00:35:05,902 Speaker 3: be careful with dairy and sugar, and I was like, 742 00:35:05,982 --> 00:35:09,422 Speaker 3: Eastree is my favorite. So what I had to do 743 00:35:09,701 --> 00:35:11,342 Speaker 3: was gone by a whole lot of eggs on sale, 744 00:35:11,542 --> 00:35:14,542 Speaker 3: put them aside, and go. Your Easter is coming. Your 745 00:35:14,582 --> 00:35:17,542 Speaker 3: Easter will come anyway. My best was that it was 746 00:35:17,582 --> 00:35:20,942 Speaker 3: actually it was lovely to be away, and I just 747 00:35:21,181 --> 00:35:22,342 Speaker 3: got so much sleep. 748 00:35:22,542 --> 00:35:23,702 Speaker 1: I got so much. 749 00:35:23,542 --> 00:35:27,182 Speaker 3: Sleep, Like Luna would get up early, hang out with Nana. 750 00:35:27,462 --> 00:35:31,582 Speaker 3: Nana loves the morning with Luna, make her some wheat bits, 751 00:35:32,221 --> 00:35:35,102 Speaker 3: and it was just delightful to spend time with everyone. 752 00:35:35,102 --> 00:35:36,502 Speaker 3: So it was very restorative. 753 00:35:37,261 --> 00:35:43,381 Speaker 1: My worst is that I like to sing you did 754 00:35:43,382 --> 00:35:47,942 Speaker 1: it for your hsc apparently who told you that? And anyway, 755 00:35:48,181 --> 00:35:50,982 Speaker 1: the other day, Luna was in the bath and she 756 00:35:51,022 --> 00:35:54,381 Speaker 1: was grizzling about something and I just started to sing 757 00:35:54,701 --> 00:35:56,942 Speaker 1: because I thought that'll calm her down. In the past, 758 00:35:56,982 --> 00:36:00,861 Speaker 1: when she was little, I can't remember, there's a particular 759 00:36:01,542 --> 00:36:03,862 Speaker 1: sort of hymn that I used to sing her, or 760 00:36:04,062 --> 00:36:06,102 Speaker 1: like a folk song, I don't even know what you'd. 761 00:36:06,022 --> 00:36:08,821 Speaker 3: Call it, but she quite liked that when she was when. 762 00:36:08,781 --> 00:36:10,142 Speaker 1: She was a tiny baby, well. 763 00:36:09,982 --> 00:36:11,221 Speaker 3: Actually we don't know if she liked it. 764 00:36:11,261 --> 00:36:14,862 Speaker 1: Before she could speak, she didn't protest anyway. I started 765 00:36:14,902 --> 00:36:17,542 Speaker 1: singing and she just looked at me and said, Nana 766 00:36:17,661 --> 00:36:23,781 Speaker 1: sing all done? And I thought someone's been getting in 767 00:36:23,862 --> 00:36:30,341 Speaker 1: your ear. They someone has polluted the pure waters of 768 00:36:30,462 --> 00:36:31,261 Speaker 1: my granddaughter. 769 00:36:31,902 --> 00:36:32,661 Speaker 3: Did you all done? 770 00:36:32,781 --> 00:36:35,261 Speaker 2: Or did you persist? She gave another crack. 771 00:36:37,382 --> 00:36:41,782 Speaker 1: I tried my best. Obviously, being away with the family, 772 00:36:41,942 --> 00:36:44,021 Speaker 1: it was great touch what I did not get sick. 773 00:36:44,582 --> 00:36:50,102 Speaker 1: But I have started seriously weight training, so you know 774 00:36:50,221 --> 00:36:55,261 Speaker 1: my hyperfixations. I have just realized because I was I 775 00:36:55,302 --> 00:36:57,542 Speaker 1: think I've said before, I was got my weighted vest 776 00:36:57,661 --> 00:37:01,062 Speaker 1: I've been lifting. Then I realized I've been lifting weights 777 00:37:01,102 --> 00:37:03,822 Speaker 1: that are way too light. I need to really level 778 00:37:03,942 --> 00:37:08,941 Speaker 1: up a lot. And so now I have and tell 779 00:37:08,982 --> 00:37:09,582 Speaker 1: you more about it. 780 00:37:09,661 --> 00:37:11,502 Speaker 2: Full of bar bells and kettle bells and stuff. 781 00:37:11,502 --> 00:37:14,501 Speaker 1: Now, yes, well, because I've got there's men in my house, 782 00:37:14,542 --> 00:37:16,902 Speaker 1: so you know, they get used by a lot of people. 783 00:37:17,542 --> 00:37:19,902 Speaker 3: And how much are we lifting so much? 784 00:37:20,741 --> 00:37:22,301 Speaker 1: I don't want to disclose it because I don't want 785 00:37:22,302 --> 00:37:25,942 Speaker 1: to intimidate anybody who's listening. No, I'm still pretty pathetic, 786 00:37:26,261 --> 00:37:29,301 Speaker 1: But what I'm really enjoying is because I've just sort 787 00:37:29,302 --> 00:37:31,702 Speaker 1: of done the same form of exercise for so many years. 788 00:37:31,781 --> 00:37:33,341 Speaker 1: I like to sort of set and forget the same 789 00:37:33,342 --> 00:37:36,381 Speaker 1: way I do with my lunches or my breakfasts. I 790 00:37:36,422 --> 00:37:38,902 Speaker 1: never feel anything from it. I don't get very tired. 791 00:37:39,022 --> 00:37:41,781 Speaker 1: I never feel any muscle anything because I never ever 792 00:37:41,862 --> 00:37:46,422 Speaker 1: challenged my muscles like I can feel some things happening. Yeah, 793 00:37:46,422 --> 00:37:49,262 Speaker 1: And it's a real shift away also for gene x women. 794 00:37:49,902 --> 00:37:51,582 Speaker 1: We grew up in this diet culture and it was 795 00:37:51,582 --> 00:37:54,422 Speaker 1: always about cardio and about burning and about looking a 796 00:37:54,422 --> 00:37:56,382 Speaker 1: certain weight and all of those things. And this is 797 00:37:56,462 --> 00:38:00,422 Speaker 1: just very different. This is about lifting for longevity and 798 00:38:00,502 --> 00:38:03,421 Speaker 1: brain health and bone density and all of that kind 799 00:38:03,422 --> 00:38:06,221 Speaker 1: of stuff. Yeah. I listened to the podcast interview that 800 00:38:06,342 --> 00:38:08,741 Speaker 1: mel Robins did with Stacy Simms that everyone's talking about. 801 00:38:08,781 --> 00:38:09,942 Speaker 1: I think you're interviewing. 802 00:38:11,221 --> 00:38:14,301 Speaker 3: I recently that weight training is better for your brain. 803 00:38:14,342 --> 00:38:17,741 Speaker 2: THANKU. And I was like, that's good. I don't like doku. Yeah, 804 00:38:18,382 --> 00:38:19,542 Speaker 2: got to get me else. 805 00:38:19,661 --> 00:38:20,142 Speaker 1: I love it. 806 00:38:20,181 --> 00:38:21,062 Speaker 3: Came up, do it. 807 00:38:21,462 --> 00:38:23,861 Speaker 2: That's all We've got time for friends. Thank you for 808 00:38:23,902 --> 00:38:26,142 Speaker 2: being with us here on this short week. A massive 809 00:38:26,181 --> 00:38:28,261 Speaker 2: thank you for all of you who are listening to 810 00:38:28,261 --> 00:38:32,382 Speaker 2: today's show, Jesse and Mia, please thank how Marvel's team. 811 00:38:32,261 --> 00:38:35,102 Speaker 3: I think, thank you to our team group executive producer 812 00:38:35,261 --> 00:38:40,261 Speaker 3: Ruth Divine, executive producer Emmeline Gazillis, our audio producer Leah 813 00:38:40,261 --> 00:38:41,062 Speaker 3: Poor Jess. 814 00:38:40,942 --> 00:38:44,301 Speaker 1: Our video producer Josh Green, and our junior content producers 815 00:38:44,342 --> 00:38:47,022 Speaker 1: Coco and Tessa. We will see you all in your 816 00:38:47,022 --> 00:38:50,822 Speaker 1: ears will We'll be back in your ears on Monday. 817 00:38:51,022 --> 00:38:56,822 Speaker 1: Well well, Hi. Shout out to any Muma Miya subscribers listening. 818 00:38:56,982 --> 00:38:59,221 Speaker 1: If you love the show and want to support us 819 00:38:59,302 --> 00:39:01,821 Speaker 1: as well, subscribing to mom and Miya is the very 820 00:39:01,862 --> 00:39:03,821 Speaker 1: best way to do so. There is a link in 821 00:39:03,862 --> 00:39:10,422 Speaker 1: the episode descriptions