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Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.

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Speaker 2: Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters

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Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on.

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Speaker 3: Hello and welcome to Mamma Mia out loud What women

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Speaker 3: are actually talking about on Friday, the twenty ninth of August.

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Speaker 3: I'm Holly Waynwright, I'm Jesse Stevens, and I'm m Vernon.

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Speaker 3: And on our agenda today, we've got what is the

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Speaker 3: snow globe effect and why it might put words around

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Speaker 3: something you're struggling to adjust to.

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Speaker 4: Plus, are you an extrovert, an introvert or an otrovert

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Speaker 4: the new term that might describe you?

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Speaker 2: And clear your weekend plans because we have four things

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Speaker 2: for you to watch and they're.

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Speaker 5: All very very good four things.

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Speaker 6: But first, and I don't know who started this hate

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Speaker 6: treen about millennials putting lol at the end of our

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Speaker 6: text messages and telling us that we need to stop

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Speaker 6: doing that.

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Speaker 5: You can't tell us what to do.

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Speaker 6: We invented text messages, Our generation invented text messages. If

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Speaker 6: you don't know the struggle of having to press a

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Speaker 6: nine three times just to get a Y and then

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Speaker 6: having to do that three more times, just to get

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Speaker 6: three wives at the end of your.

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Speaker 5: Hay, okay, tell us what to do. You don't even

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Speaker 5: know how to text.

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Speaker 6: You don't even know what text messages are. You know,

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Speaker 6: typing because you get a keyboard you have to press

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Speaker 6: one letter at a time.

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Speaker 3: Dear, so generational throw down there, Friday, that way.

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Speaker 5: Yes we are.

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Speaker 2: First it was the skinny jeans, then it was the

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Speaker 2: side fringes, and now it's the way they text. I

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Speaker 2: feel like millennials cannot.

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Speaker 5: Catch a break. So this I'm so.

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Speaker 3: Very finding out louders who don't know the ins and

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Speaker 3: outs of our dynamic.

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Speaker 5: At this table, we have gen Z.

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Speaker 2: I'm as millennial because every time I say gen Z,

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Speaker 2: the people younger than me get very old. And every

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Speaker 2: time I say I'm a millennial, people older me also

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Speaker 2: get very.

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Speaker 3: She's on the cuffs the gen z ish Yeah, and

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Speaker 3: Jesse is very millennials.

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Speaker 2: I'm proper millennials, and I'm propergenic, propergenics. Okay, So this

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Speaker 2: whole lool thing started from a tweet, which is like

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Speaker 2: where I feel like most generational disagreements start. This tweet

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Speaker 2: has over four million views and it says millennials use

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Speaker 2: lol like stop at the end of a telegram.

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Speaker 4: Loll Okay. I think we use loll like you know

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Speaker 4: when you're on a walkie talkie and you say over.

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Speaker 4: That's how I use lot.

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Speaker 5: Yes, that's like a full stop. Yes, I don't really

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Speaker 5: know what a telegram is. It's wrong with that.

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Speaker 2: So if you've ever watched an old movie, right, it's

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Speaker 2: like like black and white movie, a piece of paper

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Speaker 2: will come to the post office or whatever and it'll

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Speaker 2: be mum, very sick, stop must come now stop, like

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Speaker 2: it's the full stop.

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Speaker 5: Oh wow, Okay, So that's what.

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Speaker 4: You're doing, and what the loll is meant to infer

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Speaker 4: is millennials never want anyone to think they're being dramatic

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Speaker 4: or over the top. We don't want to worry. I

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Speaker 4: don't want you to worry.

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Speaker 5: About what I'm saying.

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Speaker 4: So it's like Luna's got hand foot in mouth. Low,

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Speaker 4: I'm not feeling very well lol. And then it's like

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Speaker 4: work was fucked today.

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Speaker 7: Lol.

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Speaker 4: It's like it just lightens everything a little bit and

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Speaker 4: it injects a millennial cynicism and kind of takes out

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Speaker 4: the earnestness like wet or being whiny, like yes, yes, exactly,

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Speaker 4: it's just like this dryness that gen Z doesn't understand

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Speaker 4: because they take themselves so seriously.

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Speaker 2: Okay, it's interesting how the loll made it through though,

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Speaker 2: because the reason loll started was when we didn't have

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Speaker 2: keyboards on our phones. We had all the numbers and

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Speaker 2: like three letters assigned to each number, and it.

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Speaker 5: Was easier to do an l OL than a ha

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Speaker 5: ha ha ha.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly right.

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Speaker 2: And yet l ol made it through the keyboard phase

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Speaker 2: of the Internet, whereas like a lot of other ones

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Speaker 2: like see let us see you letter you late eight.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, we just just abandoned. But there's something about loll

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Speaker 4: that just and it's it's ironic, like millennials are pretending

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Speaker 4: that it's but it's just your way of lightning the

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Speaker 4: mood when it comes to anything.

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Speaker 5: I rarely use it. I rarely use it.

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Speaker 2: I use it only if I want to say something

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Speaker 2: serious but don't want it to escalate beyond that, so

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Speaker 2: I'll be like, yeah, hey, I didn't really like how

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Speaker 2: you called me a stupid little bitch.

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Speaker 5: Lol, it's massively past.

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Speaker 8: Hang.

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Speaker 3: Can I ask a question just while on this topic, Yeah,

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Speaker 3: because I saw on my Instagram today, because that's where

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Speaker 3: gen xs live on Instagram a video of like a

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Speaker 3: young adult explained with doing a PowerPoint presentation to his

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Speaker 3: presumably late gen X parents, how they were using all

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Speaker 3: their emojis wrong, like we know that right generally, but

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Speaker 3: this one I hadn't heard before, and I need to

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Speaker 3: run it past you in particular, En, but maybe you also, Jesse.

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Speaker 3: The exclamation marks, you know, are the red ones? Yeah,

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Speaker 3: the red exclamation marks. The kid doing this presentation. The

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Speaker 3: example was he texted his mom saying I'm in a

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Speaker 3: bar with Alex Cooper. She is podcast royalty in the world,

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Speaker 3: and his mom had responded with the exclamation marks, like wow,

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Speaker 3: that's what she thought. She was saying wow ye, And

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Speaker 3: he said, no, you're saying, yes, I am also in

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Speaker 3: a bar with Alex keeper.

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Speaker 4: We're being trolled that. No, you don't just get to

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Speaker 4: reinvent grammar.

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Speaker 3: I was saying, exclamation emoji means I agree on me too.

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Speaker 5: Is that true? Have you heard that before?

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Speaker 2: I think it's both, Like it depends on the person,

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Speaker 2: but I think you can differentiate between someone going wow

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Speaker 2: exclamation Also, why wouldn't you just type wow, it's my parents?

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Speaker 2: I mean, exclamation could be like okay, cool, But I

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Speaker 2: use it as like saying, if you message me.

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Speaker 5: He was saying, He's saying it's same.

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Speaker 3: So it's like, Mum, you weren't in a bar with

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Speaker 3: Alex Cooper, so you shouldn't have gone with the exclamation.

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Speaker 4: See if m messages me and goes I won the lottery,

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Speaker 4: I've just become a millionaire. I reckon i'd go three

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Speaker 4: exclamation marks, like I'd be like.

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Speaker 3: I want to talk about my friendly Now. Regular Outlouders

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Speaker 3: will have heard about our friend Lucy. Actually she is

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Speaker 3: a friend to all of us because we've all worked

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Speaker 3: with Lucy. Lucy Ormonde is made of ours who has

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Speaker 3: an amazing substack called Year of Healing, and we talked

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Speaker 3: about it on the show once before because we talked

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Speaker 3: about Glimmers. But Lucy continues to produce excellent newsles.

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Speaker 5: Thank you Les.

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Speaker 3: We need to talk about her next one because I

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Speaker 3: think that what she raises in it is something that.

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Speaker 5: Will be really useful to lots of people.

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Speaker 3: So, our friend Lucy has just spent a year going

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Speaker 3: through some very intense treatment for breast cancer. Some Outlauders

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Speaker 3: know this because we've talked about it on the show.

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Speaker 3: Before she was diagnosed last year when we were on

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Speaker 3: tour together, actually in April, and she has recently completed

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Speaker 3: the most serious part of that treatment and it was

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Speaker 3: so far successful. She has ongoing treatment going on, but

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Speaker 3: she's kind of in this after period. And I hang

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Speaker 3: out with Lucy quite a bit, and what is clear

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Speaker 3: is that the neat narrative that we would all like,

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Speaker 3: which is that was terrible. Now things are fine. Let's

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Speaker 3: all get on with it and pretend that didn't happen,

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Speaker 3: or just isn't that a wonderful neat little ending.

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Speaker 5: It's just not how it rolls now.

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Speaker 3: I'm going to just read you a bit from Lucy's

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Speaker 3: substack letter about talking to her psychologist about why she

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Speaker 3: doesn't feel like she can just move on? Is I

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Speaker 3: guess the words that she would want the snow globe

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Speaker 3: effect that I'm about to read you this bit of

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Speaker 3: a letter from in this case was credited to doctor

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Speaker 3: Charlotte Totpman, who's an Australian psychologist who specializes in cancer

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Speaker 3: related distress. I know that it's a theory that floats

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Speaker 3: around in lots of places, but in this instance it

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Speaker 3: was Dr Topman who applied it to cancer. This is

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Speaker 3: a bit of Lucy's post. Have you heard about the

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Speaker 3: snow globe effect? My psychologist asks midway through our ladies session,

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Speaker 3: right about the time I was starting yet another spiral

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Speaker 3: about the complexity of my feelings on having cancer and

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Speaker 3: why I can't quite find my way in this new world.

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Speaker 3: She reaches off screen and pulls as small plastic snow

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Speaker 3: globe into focus. As a specialist in oncology, she must

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Speaker 3: use the snow globe analogy enough to know she always

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Speaker 3: needs one close. I want you to imagine this snow

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Speaker 3: globe is your life, she says, as she holds it

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Speaker 3: close to the screen. She gives me a few seconds

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Speaker 3: to take it in before she starts to shake it.

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Speaker 3: And then suddenly you're diagnosed with cancer. Shake shake, shake, shake, shake, shake.

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Speaker 5: And stop.

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Speaker 3: The cylinder stops in her hands, but the snowflakes continue

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Speaker 3: to fall. Now, she says, imagine all those little bits

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Speaker 3: of snowy your values and priorities. Cancer has thrown them

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Speaker 3: all up in the air, and now none of them

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Speaker 3: are settling where they were before. The flakes keep falling.

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Speaker 3: The things that used to matter don't matter anymore, and

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Speaker 3: some of the things that really didn't matter.

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Speaker 5: Now do.

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Speaker 3: Now what Lucy's talking about. There is something called the

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Speaker 3: snow globe effect. It's been widely talked about and credited

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Speaker 3: to different psychologists. Is that something that rings true with

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Speaker 3: you too about maybe other areas of life, or that

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Speaker 3: explains why things sometimes aren't in such a neat little package.

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Speaker 4: I love this analogy so much because when people talk

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Speaker 4: about values work, and you hear a lot of psychologists

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Speaker 4: talk about the importance of values, and maybe a lot

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Speaker 4: of people in the self help space, there's this idea

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Speaker 4: that your values, you can write them down in a journal,

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Speaker 4: you can point to them, and they are your north

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Speaker 4: star and they never ever change, and that makes us

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Speaker 4: feel very in control of things. And it is a

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Speaker 4: total oversimplification of how values work, because in fact, sometimes

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Speaker 4: you don't get to choose your values. Sometimes something so

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Speaker 4: catastrophic or transformative happens in your life that it is shaken.

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Speaker 4: And I think this will happen to every single person

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Speaker 4: at some point in their life, and maybe it won't

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Speaker 4: be as horrific as a cancer diagnosis, but I think

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Speaker 4: I think in some ways life is a snow globe

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Speaker 4: in that you know the second you feel like everything

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Speaker 4: is calm, it just all gets shaken. I've, you know,

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Speaker 4: noticed this with Lucier. I've noticed this with a lot

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Speaker 4: of friends, where sometimes they're like, but I don't want

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Speaker 4: those to be my values. I don't want those to

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Speaker 4: be my priorities. But you've got to let it all

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Speaker 4: sit and go. This is kind of how life looks

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Speaker 4: now and in the middle of the mess, it's impossible

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Speaker 4: to see where it's all gonna land. And if you

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Speaker 4: are a controlling I feel like I can be quite controlling.

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Speaker 4: We all are. We all would like to have more

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Speaker 4: control over our lives. We try and grab this piece

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Speaker 4: and then nail this piece to a wall and then

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Speaker 4: go and I'll just put this here and then fine,

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Speaker 4: it's all okay now now can we move on? But

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Speaker 4: it almost reminded me of something. I don't think I've

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Speaker 4: talked about it here. I've spoken about it somewhere else.

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Speaker 4: But Kate Langbrook. Before I had a baby, I was

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Speaker 4: speaking to Kate, who's got four kids, and she said,

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Speaker 4: parenting is like falling down the stairs drunk. You injure

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Speaker 4: yourself when you resist. You've got to go floppy. If

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Speaker 4: you go floppy, you'll be fine. And I've thought about

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Speaker 4: that so much because it's the resistance that causes the pain. Yes,

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Speaker 4: Like it's the resistance to kind of even in the

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Speaker 4: snow globe, you're kind of going around and like almost

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Speaker 4: in the middle of this hurricane, and the more you

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Speaker 4: try and resist, the more you get frustrated and irritated,

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Speaker 4: and you're going whether it's in parenting, there is so

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Speaker 4: little you can control, and like it is so much

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Speaker 4: more comfortable if you just go. I think the word

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Speaker 4: there is just surrender, like just surrender to it.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, it's so interesting.

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Speaker 2: I actually learned about the snow globe effect years ago

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Speaker 2: from my own therapist, and it was a situation where

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Speaker 2: I started going to therapy but there wasn't something that

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Speaker 2: happened to me where I needed to go to therapy for.

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Speaker 2: And I think it's that ongoing argument on if nothing's

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Speaker 2: happened to you, you don't need therapy, versus like you have

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Speaker 2: to wait for something.

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Speaker 5: To happen to you and then go to therapy.

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Speaker 4: I've read that people go during the snow globe storm

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Speaker 4: when maybe they should go before.

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Speaker 8: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so, and it's actually really hard because my first

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Speaker 2: few therapy sessions. I hated it because the whole idea

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Speaker 2: was my therapist, who's absolutely amazing. She was trying to

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Speaker 2: get me to talk about my values that I had

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Speaker 2: and question them and see if they were actually the

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Speaker 2: right values for me. And the movies taught me that

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Speaker 2: when you go to therapy, you leave therapy and like

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Speaker 2: the world's a better place. Was I was leaving therapy

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Speaker 2: and I was feeling worse. I was feeling like, oh

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Speaker 2: my god, this sucks, like this is the hardest.

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Speaker 5: More confused. I'm more confused.

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Speaker 2: I just feel so sad, like everything's just so annoying.

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Speaker 2: I hate everyone. And then eventually it started getting lighter

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Speaker 2: and lighter. But it did make me realize that therapy

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Speaker 2: is like a muscle that I constantly had to keep training,

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Speaker 2: and I had to keep going to actually figure out

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Speaker 2: what my actual values are and I can't. When I

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Speaker 2: read Lucy's piece, I remember like it brought me back

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Speaker 2: to that snow globe theory, and I can't even imagine

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Speaker 2: what it would be like to go through all of

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Speaker 2: that when you're not in control of it, wh're already

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Speaker 2: happening to you instead of you looking at it before

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Speaker 2: it happens.

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Speaker 4: So what context did your therapist use the snow globe effect?

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Speaker 4: Can you remember what they were talking about.

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Speaker 2: So I had this bit of a crisis where I

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Speaker 2: was twenty three or something and I just felt so childlike.

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Speaker 2: And it was the same age that my dad was

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Speaker 2: when he moved to Australia from India and had to

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Speaker 2: literally start his life, find a job, work, get married,

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Speaker 2: have kids. And it just put me in this place

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Speaker 2: where I was like, how was my dad able to

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Speaker 2: do that in a brand new country, also facing like

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Speaker 2: so much like racism and stuff, and I can't even

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Speaker 2: like make my bed sometimes in the morning. And that's

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Speaker 2: what my therapists had to go through. I think it's

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Speaker 2: very common, especially with children of immigrants, not being able

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Speaker 2: to do what your parents did, because in the back

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Speaker 2: of your head, you're always like, they did this a mesona,

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Speaker 2: I have to do something with my life because they

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Speaker 2: literally gave.

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Speaker 5: Up their life for me.

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Speaker 2: There's like pressure, yeah, And it was around that where

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Speaker 2: she was like, I think you just need to enjoy

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Speaker 2: the life you're living right now, and I feel like

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Speaker 2: you're struggling to do that because you constantly have that

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Speaker 2: voice in the back of your head, and then she

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Speaker 2: was talking about is that actually happening or are you

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Speaker 2: telling yourself that that's happening?

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Speaker 5: Because my dad wasn't.

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Speaker 2: Telling me that, like he wasn't And it was one

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Speaker 2: of those things where I was like, that was my

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Speaker 2: whole life up until that point. I was like, there's

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Speaker 2: no way I can stop doing that, Like there's no

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Speaker 2: way I can stop thinking about that. And it took

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Speaker 2: years for me to get out of that mentality and have.

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Speaker 5: A perspective share.

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Speaker 7: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I think one of the things about the snow globe,

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Speaker 3: and this is what Lucy has said to me about

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Speaker 3: it too, is that she's sort of after a storm

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Speaker 3: in a way, right, Like it's not really over. She's

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Speaker 3: still on cancer treatment. There's still a lot of physical

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Speaker 3: and emotional and psychological stuff going on, and yet the

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Speaker 3: storm is over, the snowflakes have settled in theory, right,

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Speaker 3: and everything is in a different place than it was before.

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Speaker 3: And I think that this is also something that can

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Speaker 3: happen in grief, in loss, maybe after a massive life upheaval,

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Speaker 3: like a divorce that you didn't see coming, is suddenly

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Speaker 3: everything's different and you're changed. You're the same, but you're changed,

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Speaker 3: and that can also be really confusing for people around you.

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Speaker 3: I know people who've been through enormous loss, for example,

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Speaker 3: that has rearranged all their snowflakes, and everything's in a

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Speaker 3: different place, and everything tastes different and looks different, smells different,

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Speaker 3: and the people around you are going, but the storm

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Speaker 3: is over, Like, you know, you lost your person and

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Speaker 3: now it's been six months and you should be getting

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Speaker 3: over it. Or you had cancer. Now you've been told

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Speaker 3: that your cancer free for now, so it's over, so

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Speaker 3: come on, you know more, you know, the crisis has passed,

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Speaker 3: the storm is over. And the thing is is that

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Speaker 3: you can never pretend as if the storm didn't happen.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, it's not temporary.

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Speaker 3: Yeah whatever this massive thing that's happened to you, that

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Speaker 3: did tear the wallpaper off your walls, or whatever analogy

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Speaker 3: you want to torture with it, you can't just piece

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Speaker 3: it all back together and make it exactly the same.

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Speaker 3: So then you've got to be comfortable with the change.

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Speaker 3: And to your point Jesse, about we like to be

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Speaker 3: so certain about our values and we like to have

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Speaker 3: them nailed to the wall, and we like to be like,

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Speaker 3: this is who I am and often when we're going

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Speaker 3: through something really difficult, we just crave the normalcy of

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Speaker 3: knowing where all the furniture is. Again, it's like another

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Speaker 3: crisis in facing that the furniture is never going to

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Speaker 3: be in.

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Speaker 4: The same so we're not going back to where we

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Speaker 4: came from.

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Speaker 5: So I think it's really helpful.

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Speaker 3: One of the other things that Lucy said to me

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Speaker 3: about this analogy, though, is she said that in some

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Speaker 3: ways she feels like her snowflakes have settled in places

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Speaker 3: that are better than where they were before. Right now,

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Speaker 3: not everybody likes that kind of neat analogy that a

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Speaker 3: terrible experience like always has this big meaning that, oh,

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Speaker 3: suddenly I understand what life's about. You know, that's certainly

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Speaker 3: not true for everybody. There's so much anger and darkness

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Speaker 3: involved in all that too. But if your values are

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Speaker 3: drama rearranged and your priorities are dramatically rearranged after a

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Speaker 3: traumatic event for you, maybe they are going back in

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Speaker 3: places that are better for you.

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Speaker 4: And that's some post traumatic growth, right Like, That's what

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Speaker 4: Leigh Sales writes about in any ordinary day her book,

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Speaker 4: And you hear people who have been through the most

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Speaker 4: unimaginable tragedies who at the end go, I feel like

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Speaker 4: I've grown out of that, which again is in everyone's story,

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Speaker 4: but it's got to be a lesson in sort of

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Speaker 4: stopping the resisting and to sort of torture the analogy

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Speaker 4: for more. The thing about a snow globe is that

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Speaker 4: it's just happening to you, like it's not happening to

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Speaker 4: the whole world. You're kind of stuck in this thing,

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Speaker 4: and to everyone else things are still completely normal. And

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Speaker 4: as you say, they don't see the crisis anymore, but

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Speaker 4: they don't probably understand the aftermath of the storm to

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Speaker 4: the same extent, and so it must also be a

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Speaker 4: really lonely experience of trying to understand all of those changes.

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Speaker 3: If you know anyone who might benefit from reading Lucy's newsletter,

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Speaker 3: A Year of Heat, it is on Substacked, and we

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Speaker 3: will obviously put a link in the show notes. It's

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Speaker 3: a really beautiful, it really beautiful series.

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Speaker 4: Of letters out louders in a moment? Are you someone

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Speaker 4: who has never ever felt like you belong? Apparently there

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Speaker 4: are extroverts, introverts, and otroverts, and we have at least

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Speaker 4: one sitting at this table. Do you hate parties? Do

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Speaker 4: you despise team sports? Do you prefer working on your

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Speaker 4: own than with a group. Have you gone through life

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Speaker 4: feeling like a bit of an outsider? If so, you

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Speaker 4: might be something called an otrovert, and a man named

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Speaker 4: doctor Rami Kaminski has just published an entire book about you.

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Speaker 4: Kaminski is an award winning psychiatrist, and he says that

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Speaker 4: over the years he has had a very specific kind

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Speaker 4: of person come into his practice. While introverts face inwards

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Speaker 4: and extroverts face outwards, otroverts, that's a term here is coined,

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Speaker 4: are on a completely different continuum. They see themselves as

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Speaker 4: other and are facing somewhere else entirely. Otroverts have no

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Speaker 4: problem standing up for themselves. They gain energy from deep

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Speaker 4: conversations with close friends. They are often gregarious or outgoing,

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Speaker 4: but critically, they have no desire to join in. As

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Speaker 4: Kaminski puts it, they are soloists who cannot play in

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Speaker 4: an orchestra. Most people except the group that they're born into,

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Speaker 4: without question, whether that's religious, is cultural, it's political. Most

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Speaker 4: crave a sense of belonging. It feels so critical to

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Speaker 4: sort of your life that you belong to a group.

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Speaker 4: Otroverts do not feel this. They are observers more than participants,

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Speaker 4: and often they become leaders or artists or prominent thinkers

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Speaker 4: because of their defiance. So the likes of Freedo, Carlo,

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Speaker 4: Albert Einstein people they are outroverts. I can think of

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Speaker 4: so many people in my life who fit this definition.

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Speaker 4: It has been a real light bulb moment. Holly, does

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Speaker 4: this sound at all familiar?

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Speaker 3: Yes, So I hesitate like I don't want to pathologize myself,

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Speaker 3: and there are clearly lots of things in that list

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Speaker 3: that are not me.

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Speaker 5: I'm not at any parties with Albert. I'm starting the

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Speaker 5: color and.

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Speaker 4: I will say Yet, Kaminski says, this is not a pathology.

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Speaker 4: It is not something you need to see a therapist for.

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Speaker 4: It is not something that is a diagnosis. It is

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Speaker 4: simply a different way of being.

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Speaker 3: But whenever I look, you know, we will also love

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Speaker 3: the introvert extrovert thing. The past ten years, as we know,

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Speaker 3: it's just been introvert central and then extrovert's got a

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Speaker 3: bad name, and then you know, brat Summer and people

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Speaker 3: got a bit more extrovert.

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Speaker 5: Wh yeah, blah blah.

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Speaker 3: But whenever I think about that, I'm always like I'm

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Speaker 3: neither of those things. Because when I read this, I

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Speaker 3: was like, this is why I hide in the toilets

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Speaker 3: at parties, but I never want my small friend dinners

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Speaker 3: to end. Like I'm not an introvert in that I

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Speaker 3: don't like socializing. I love socializing, but I like socializing

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Speaker 3: with one person or two people. When I was reading

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Speaker 3: this list, I was like, obviously, not all these things

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Speaker 3: are true for me, right, but this is part of

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Speaker 3: the list. It says these are the people who always

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Speaker 3: prefer to have dinner with a friend one on one

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Speaker 3: rather than attend a dinner party tick. When they have

434
00:21:21,742 --> 00:21:24,421
Speaker 3: to attend large gatherings, they are the figure standing off

435
00:21:24,462 --> 00:21:27,022
Speaker 3: to the side, deep in conversation with another person rather

436
00:21:27,061 --> 00:21:31,101
Speaker 3: than working the room tick. They despise playing team sports

437
00:21:31,462 --> 00:21:36,662
Speaker 3: tick and find the shared traditions of rituals of communal

438
00:21:36,661 --> 00:21:40,821
Speaker 3: life like office parties, graduation ceremonies difficult and even baffling.

439
00:21:41,061 --> 00:21:42,782
Speaker 5: Right tick tick tick.

440
00:21:42,821 --> 00:21:45,341
Speaker 3: Like I love all the people I work with, but

441
00:21:45,462 --> 00:21:47,382
Speaker 3: I do not want to be at a party with them.

442
00:21:47,581 --> 00:21:51,102
Speaker 3: I don't like parties. I don't like big communal celebrations

443
00:21:51,302 --> 00:21:54,101
Speaker 3: things I didn't relate to when it says you would

444
00:21:54,182 --> 00:21:57,022
Speaker 3: rather do work assignments individually than in a group. Well,

445
00:21:57,101 --> 00:22:00,181
Speaker 3: I'm a writer, so obviously yes. But also I do this,

446
00:22:00,302 --> 00:22:02,742
Speaker 3: so obviously no. And I've worked in lots of teams,

447
00:22:02,742 --> 00:22:04,782
Speaker 3: and I've led teams, and I've really enjoyed that. That

448
00:22:04,861 --> 00:22:08,182
Speaker 3: bit doesn't strike such a chord with me. But when

449
00:22:08,222 --> 00:22:11,181
Speaker 3: he wrote, unlike introvers most of whom would be completely

450
00:22:11,262 --> 00:22:13,421
Speaker 3: drained from hours spent in a quiet corner of a

451
00:22:13,422 --> 00:22:16,982
Speaker 3: pub talking with their closest friend. Otroverts tend to gain

452
00:22:17,101 --> 00:22:19,861
Speaker 3: energy from these kinds of deep conversations. Sitting in a

453
00:22:19,901 --> 00:22:22,662
Speaker 3: quiet corner of a pub talking to my dearest friend

454
00:22:22,702 --> 00:22:25,101
Speaker 3: for hours is my idea of heaven.

455
00:22:25,542 --> 00:22:27,901
Speaker 5: I would do that for a week. I think that

456
00:22:27,942 --> 00:22:29,022
Speaker 5: sounds a little intense.

457
00:22:29,141 --> 00:22:31,782
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, So I did tick a lot of boxes,

458
00:22:31,821 --> 00:22:35,061
Speaker 3: did this in my head, and I also thought about

459
00:22:35,101 --> 00:22:38,502
Speaker 3: my kids and my partner, Like my daughter matured, she

460
00:22:38,581 --> 00:22:42,101
Speaker 3: loves team sports like she loves that environment so much.

461
00:22:42,141 --> 00:22:43,182
Speaker 5: It's a very big part.

462
00:22:43,182 --> 00:22:45,542
Speaker 3: And I this is what I always say that one

463
00:22:45,542 --> 00:22:47,221
Speaker 3: of the biggest lessons about parenting is how much your

464
00:22:47,262 --> 00:22:50,021
Speaker 3: kids aren't you. I look at it with bafflement and

465
00:22:50,101 --> 00:22:53,782
Speaker 3: wonder and I'm like, amazing. My son is much more

466
00:22:53,821 --> 00:22:57,022
Speaker 3: like me. Brent has never met a party. He doesn't

467
00:22:57,022 --> 00:22:59,302
Speaker 3: want to rip up like. He's always like can we go?

468
00:22:59,341 --> 00:23:01,302
Speaker 3: And I'm like, oh no, it'll be awful. He's like,

469
00:23:01,341 --> 00:23:01,741
Speaker 3: can we go?

470
00:23:01,821 --> 00:23:02,381
Speaker 5: I'm like, you go.

471
00:23:04,381 --> 00:23:07,181
Speaker 3: So I feel like, although the deep side of this,

472
00:23:07,341 --> 00:23:09,861
Speaker 3: I'm not necessarily sure that I can tick the with

473
00:23:09,901 --> 00:23:13,781
Speaker 3: the geniuses on a social front, because I always go, well,

474
00:23:13,782 --> 00:23:16,181
Speaker 3: I'm not really an introvert and I'm not ann.

475
00:23:16,661 --> 00:23:18,542
Speaker 4: Do you feel Have you gone through life feeling like

476
00:23:18,581 --> 00:23:20,422
Speaker 4: you don't belong often?

477
00:23:20,821 --> 00:23:21,101
Speaker 5: Yes?

478
00:23:21,302 --> 00:23:23,581
Speaker 3: Like this bit I related to too, not to a

479
00:23:23,621 --> 00:23:27,302
Speaker 3: tiny violin. But he quoted this kid who was getting

480
00:23:27,302 --> 00:23:30,422
Speaker 3: this diagnosis as saying, I feel weird in a group

481
00:23:30,502 --> 00:23:32,341
Speaker 3: situation you're talking about, like I'm not part of it,

482
00:23:32,422 --> 00:23:34,741
Speaker 3: which is odd because these are all my friends and

483
00:23:34,821 --> 00:23:36,502
Speaker 3: I know they like me and are happy I'm there,

484
00:23:36,782 --> 00:23:39,542
Speaker 3: but I still don't feel connected. I only feel lonely

485
00:23:39,661 --> 00:23:42,102
Speaker 3: or bored when I'm with many people, and not when

486
00:23:42,101 --> 00:23:44,141
Speaker 3: I'm with one or two close friends or when i'm alone.

487
00:23:44,182 --> 00:23:48,061
Speaker 3: And that's true, Like I always feel really weird in

488
00:23:48,141 --> 00:23:51,061
Speaker 3: big groups, and that's so funny and I don't know

489
00:23:51,101 --> 00:23:52,742
Speaker 3: why how about that maybe I do?

490
00:23:53,101 --> 00:23:54,821
Speaker 4: And do you relate to this at all?

491
00:23:54,901 --> 00:23:58,302
Speaker 5: I just okay, so you found out you're an otrovert?

492
00:23:58,381 --> 00:23:58,901
Speaker 5: Like now what?

493
00:23:59,182 --> 00:23:59,262
Speaker 1: Like?

494
00:23:59,381 --> 00:24:02,222
Speaker 2: Now what happens? Like I want to pull a Jemia

495
00:24:02,262 --> 00:24:04,902
Speaker 2: M kirkcard here. Yeah, because I was learning about otrovat

496
00:24:04,901 --> 00:24:06,782
Speaker 2: and I'm like, oh my god, I think I'm an otrovert,

497
00:24:06,821 --> 00:24:09,141
Speaker 2: but maybe I have extravert tendencies. But I've been feeling

498
00:24:09,141 --> 00:24:11,262
Speaker 2: a bit in about it lately. And then I was like,

499
00:24:11,742 --> 00:24:14,702
Speaker 2: ww j k D what would you mind?

500
00:24:14,861 --> 00:24:15,022
Speaker 1: Kid?

501
00:24:15,101 --> 00:24:17,102
Speaker 5: Do do you tell me I'm thinking about myself way

502
00:24:17,141 --> 00:24:19,542
Speaker 5: too much? And she'd be right. We all are what.

503
00:24:19,581 --> 00:24:23,141
Speaker 2: I don't like about when we create labels that aren't

504
00:24:23,182 --> 00:24:27,942
Speaker 2: diagnosis on people, it gives people the excuse to do

505
00:24:28,022 --> 00:24:30,821
Speaker 2: things their way. So now I know, hole, when I

506
00:24:30,861 --> 00:24:33,782
Speaker 2: have my big thirtieth birthday next year, you're going to

507
00:24:33,861 --> 00:24:36,782
Speaker 2: be like, hey, and remember how I'm an otrovert. Yeah,

508
00:24:36,821 --> 00:24:38,901
Speaker 2: you know I don't like big setting, so I can't

509
00:24:38,942 --> 00:24:41,022
Speaker 2: come to your party. Let me know when you want

510
00:24:41,022 --> 00:24:43,061
Speaker 2: to have a one on one dinner, say.

511
00:24:42,901 --> 00:24:45,222
Speaker 4: I I'm going to push back on you with that.

512
00:24:45,661 --> 00:24:50,421
Speaker 4: I had never had my belief that everyone should belong

513
00:24:50,661 --> 00:24:53,262
Speaker 4: and everyone should want to belong. I had never had

514
00:24:53,262 --> 00:24:56,502
Speaker 4: that belief challenge before, and this blew my mind. They

515
00:24:56,502 --> 00:24:59,181
Speaker 4: were talking about parenting a kid who doesn't want to

516
00:24:59,262 --> 00:25:01,982
Speaker 4: join in, and you go, no, but you've got to

517
00:25:02,061 --> 00:25:03,821
Speaker 4: join in. You've got to be part of a group

518
00:25:03,861 --> 00:25:07,502
Speaker 4: that's really really important, and it's like, not everyone is

519
00:25:07,581 --> 00:25:12,061
Speaker 4: the same, and we do so sometimes pathologize or fret

520
00:25:12,502 --> 00:25:15,462
Speaker 4: about some personality traits that are just on the spectrum

521
00:25:15,502 --> 00:25:15,941
Speaker 4: of normal.

522
00:25:16,101 --> 00:25:19,222
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's it's so fun, absolutely, and I think it's

523
00:25:19,262 --> 00:25:21,982
Speaker 3: not to pathologize it, but I think that it's very

524
00:25:23,101 --> 00:25:26,061
Speaker 3: helpful to just understand that you can be all of

525
00:25:26,101 --> 00:25:28,942
Speaker 3: these things and still be happy and fulfilled. Like when

526
00:25:28,982 --> 00:25:30,861
Speaker 3: I say that I feel weird in groups, it's not

527
00:25:30,942 --> 00:25:32,821
Speaker 3: like a sad thing like that I need someone to

528
00:25:32,861 --> 00:25:34,461
Speaker 3: come and put their arm around me and talk to

529
00:25:34,502 --> 00:25:37,382
Speaker 3: me deeply about something intense, Like it's not that it's

530
00:25:37,502 --> 00:25:41,702
Speaker 3: just even though I'm a very competent speaker, know how

531
00:25:41,742 --> 00:25:44,182
Speaker 3: to ask questions and like integrate myself into a group.

532
00:25:44,222 --> 00:25:46,022
Speaker 3: Obviously I've done it a million times in my job

533
00:25:46,061 --> 00:25:47,341
Speaker 3: and my life.

534
00:25:47,581 --> 00:25:49,102
Speaker 5: I always feel.

535
00:25:48,821 --> 00:25:51,302
Speaker 3: Other in those situations, like even with a group of

536
00:25:51,341 --> 00:25:53,502
Speaker 3: people I know, well, I always feel like I shouldn't

537
00:25:53,542 --> 00:25:57,782
Speaker 3: really be there, So this is helpful because it's just like, oh,

538
00:25:57,982 --> 00:25:59,901
Speaker 3: maybe I'm just And then I also think that maybe

539
00:25:59,982 --> 00:26:02,821
Speaker 3: my life choices, like moving across the other side of

540
00:26:02,821 --> 00:26:04,782
Speaker 3: the world when I was young, all of those kinds

541
00:26:04,742 --> 00:26:07,661
Speaker 3: of things have also probably made me a bit like

542
00:26:07,742 --> 00:26:09,462
Speaker 3: that too, you know what I mean, Like that you're

543
00:26:09,581 --> 00:26:13,341
Speaker 3: a singular une rather than the unit in a try.

544
00:26:13,581 --> 00:26:16,382
Speaker 4: Maybe you were also better equipped to make those decisions,

545
00:26:16,462 --> 00:26:19,542
Speaker 4: those decisions that would have been terrifying for people. If

546
00:26:19,542 --> 00:26:23,262
Speaker 4: you've always seen yourself as an individuals rather than part

547
00:26:23,302 --> 00:26:25,861
Speaker 4: of a group, or you never really identified with being

548
00:26:25,901 --> 00:26:28,061
Speaker 4: from Manchester, or you never really and you just see

549
00:26:28,061 --> 00:26:30,581
Speaker 4: people on their individual basis, then it makes sense that

550
00:26:30,661 --> 00:26:32,742
Speaker 4: you would be more brave in some ways.

551
00:26:32,821 --> 00:26:34,742
Speaker 3: Doesn't that also sound like you might be more self

552
00:26:34,742 --> 00:26:35,782
Speaker 3: interested in selfish?

553
00:26:35,782 --> 00:26:36,022
Speaker 7: I don't.

554
00:26:36,182 --> 00:26:40,462
Speaker 5: Yes, you're protecting your peace too much. It's not always

555
00:26:40,581 --> 00:26:41,701
Speaker 5: all about you.

556
00:26:42,302 --> 00:26:45,821
Speaker 2: Like I understand parents feeling like, oh so my kids fine,

557
00:26:45,821 --> 00:26:47,901
Speaker 2: and like they just don't actually want to go, but

558
00:26:47,942 --> 00:26:50,222
Speaker 2: also sometimes you have to force your kid to go,

559
00:26:50,502 --> 00:26:52,461
Speaker 2: Like they have to go, they have to join in.

560
00:26:52,502 --> 00:26:54,381
Speaker 4: Ye have to like it. I do think that, but

561
00:26:54,462 --> 00:26:56,462
Speaker 4: I was also I wrote something recently and I was

562
00:26:56,502 --> 00:26:59,501
Speaker 4: thinking about last year I went to Northern Ireland and

563
00:26:59,542 --> 00:27:02,022
Speaker 4: it was my mind was blown by my experience of

564
00:27:02,061 --> 00:27:04,661
Speaker 4: Northern Ireland. Never been anywhere like it, and to me

565
00:27:04,942 --> 00:27:08,701
Speaker 4: it crystallized so much about history. I felt like I

566
00:27:08,782 --> 00:27:11,942
Speaker 4: landed there and I was like, Wow, this just puts

567
00:27:11,982 --> 00:27:16,061
Speaker 4: a whole framework on like wars and disagreements and groupthink.

568
00:27:16,101 --> 00:27:18,702
Speaker 4: And I say that because in Northern Ireland you've got

569
00:27:18,782 --> 00:27:22,421
Speaker 4: these two very distinct groups. You've got the Protestants and

570
00:27:22,462 --> 00:27:26,061
Speaker 4: the Catholics and the Catholics. And if dry Girls taught

571
00:27:26,061 --> 00:27:29,701
Speaker 4: me one thing, Protestants and Catholics living virtually side by

572
00:27:29,742 --> 00:27:32,101
Speaker 4: side in neighborhoods, and they cannot even sit in the

573
00:27:32,101 --> 00:27:34,821
Speaker 4: same pub together, like they hate each other. And you

574
00:27:34,821 --> 00:27:37,182
Speaker 4: were brought up and we had a Protestant cab driver

575
00:27:37,422 --> 00:27:38,941
Speaker 4: and I asked him a bunch of questions and like

576
00:27:38,982 --> 00:27:41,981
Speaker 4: he'd never spoke to a Catholic, he would never like

577
00:27:42,022 --> 00:27:45,061
Speaker 4: they you don't go to school together. You subscribed to

578
00:27:45,262 --> 00:27:48,061
Speaker 4: completely different narratives. History is different for you. You are

579
00:27:48,061 --> 00:27:51,182
Speaker 4: taught different histories in class, right, And if you think

580
00:27:51,222 --> 00:27:54,742
Speaker 4: about some of the worst atrocities that have happened throughout

581
00:27:54,821 --> 00:27:58,142
Speaker 4: human history, group think is responsible for them. This psychiatrist

582
00:27:58,182 --> 00:28:01,341
Speaker 4: writes a lot about the hive mind, like the idea

583
00:28:01,422 --> 00:28:05,181
Speaker 4: that when you're part of a hive, it's not just

584
00:28:05,222 --> 00:28:07,341
Speaker 4: that you're all together and you're protective, but you've got

585
00:28:07,341 --> 00:28:11,302
Speaker 4: to subscribe to the same ideology and beliefs and thoughts

586
00:28:11,942 --> 00:28:15,181
Speaker 4: even when the logic stops making sense, right, and just

587
00:28:15,222 --> 00:28:17,382
Speaker 4: so you can stay in that case, Yeah, because that's

588
00:28:17,422 --> 00:28:21,182
Speaker 4: your primary desire. This is why ultroverts are so important.

589
00:28:21,262 --> 00:28:24,701
Speaker 4: I was just thinking about them and how necessary they

590
00:28:24,742 --> 00:28:28,262
Speaker 4: are to communities, Like oltroverts are the people that go

591
00:28:29,661 --> 00:28:31,861
Speaker 4: this is kind of weird, Like this isn't really making

592
00:28:31,901 --> 00:28:34,182
Speaker 4: sense to me. This is something I'm going to challenge.

593
00:28:34,302 --> 00:28:38,702
Speaker 4: They don't necessarily think the belonging is the most important thing.

594
00:28:38,902 --> 00:28:42,542
Speaker 3: I feel oppressed by that kind of yeah, like not

595
00:28:42,582 --> 00:28:45,022
Speaker 3: oppressed in the serious way. I'm not an oppressed person,

596
00:28:45,022 --> 00:28:47,421
Speaker 3: for God's sake, Like I'm you know, middle aged white lady.

597
00:28:47,661 --> 00:28:51,902
Speaker 3: But I find it oppressive. That's the I've always been

598
00:28:52,102 --> 00:28:55,822
Speaker 3: deeply uncomfortable with patriotism of any kind. And although I

599
00:28:55,902 --> 00:28:58,102
Speaker 3: love some kinds of belonging, like I love being at

600
00:28:58,102 --> 00:28:59,142
Speaker 3: a football match or whatever.

601
00:28:59,702 --> 00:29:02,982
Speaker 2: I just don't like being on the team or at

602
00:29:03,022 --> 00:29:05,982
Speaker 2: a concert where you all love the But then I

603
00:29:06,022 --> 00:29:09,142
Speaker 2: also stop pulling away from it because I'll be like, well,

604
00:29:09,182 --> 00:29:11,782
Speaker 2: I really my team to win, but now they're kind

605
00:29:11,782 --> 00:29:13,822
Speaker 2: of winning, and I feel really uncomfortable about that.

606
00:29:13,862 --> 00:29:15,622
Speaker 4: And then I'm like, I don't know, I know, part

607
00:29:15,622 --> 00:29:15,982
Speaker 4: of the group.

608
00:29:16,062 --> 00:29:17,542
Speaker 5: Yeah, I know. I can't be part of the group

609
00:29:17,542 --> 00:29:19,062
Speaker 5: who's all cheering for that thing. I don't know.

610
00:29:19,102 --> 00:29:21,422
Speaker 3: It's it's weird to like, I sound like I'm beings

611
00:29:21,502 --> 00:29:24,221
Speaker 3: such a precious little snowflake. But it's like when I

612
00:29:24,302 --> 00:29:26,062
Speaker 3: read this, too, are related to a lot of it

613
00:29:26,142 --> 00:29:28,862
Speaker 3: in that way. Is that I think we do all

614
00:29:28,902 --> 00:29:30,981
Speaker 3: want to belong and I want to belong to the

615
00:29:31,022 --> 00:29:34,342
Speaker 3: people who I want to belong with, But I also feel,

616
00:29:34,462 --> 00:29:36,661
Speaker 3: you know, like a wolf with my leg in the

617
00:29:36,862 --> 00:29:40,182
Speaker 3: in the trap when I feel when the belonging is pushed.

618
00:29:39,902 --> 00:29:42,582
Speaker 5: On me too much. So do you experience fomo? Not much?

619
00:29:43,022 --> 00:29:45,822
Speaker 3: Right, not much at all? I mean, obviously about things

620
00:29:45,862 --> 00:29:48,221
Speaker 3: I really want to do, but I often will be

621
00:29:48,502 --> 00:29:51,022
Speaker 3: once it becomes a critical mass, I'm like, oh no,

622
00:29:51,102 --> 00:29:53,622
Speaker 3: I don't want it. I don't know anyway I sound.

623
00:29:53,942 --> 00:29:56,021
Speaker 3: Isn't it funny much too much?

624
00:29:56,062 --> 00:29:56,582
Speaker 5: As Jemia M.

625
00:29:56,661 --> 00:30:00,102
Speaker 4: Kirkwould say that you are semi resisting the label of Otrovit.

626
00:30:00,542 --> 00:30:03,022
Speaker 5: Wonder very interesting if critical.

627
00:30:02,622 --> 00:30:04,902
Speaker 4: To outroverts is them going, I'm not a perfect otrivit.

628
00:30:05,222 --> 00:30:07,022
Speaker 4: I'm not like all the other outroverts. I'm a very

629
00:30:07,022 --> 00:30:10,102
Speaker 4: specific kind of outrivat. It just reminded me though, that

630
00:30:10,142 --> 00:30:12,421
Speaker 4: it's like, you couldn't have a world full of otroverts

631
00:30:12,622 --> 00:30:15,902
Speaker 4: be chaos. It'd be anarchy. It'd be very independent and

632
00:30:16,062 --> 00:30:18,222
Speaker 4: like to be a lone birthday it'd be oh my god,

633
00:30:18,222 --> 00:30:20,422
Speaker 4: there would be no birthday parties, there would be no community.

634
00:30:20,822 --> 00:30:24,142
Speaker 4: But you need them in a society that has all

635
00:30:24,142 --> 00:30:26,582
Speaker 4: the other different types of people. And I quite liked that,

636
00:30:26,661 --> 00:30:29,342
Speaker 4: and it made me understand why some people in my

637
00:30:29,382 --> 00:30:34,582
Speaker 4: life might seem a little rebellious. There was a term

638
00:30:34,622 --> 00:30:37,702
Speaker 4: that he used, which was that they're sort of meek rebels,

639
00:30:38,022 --> 00:30:41,302
Speaker 4: like they don't try and do something wrong for the

640
00:30:41,342 --> 00:30:44,142
Speaker 4: sake of it. But it also explains why they can

641
00:30:44,182 --> 00:30:48,062
Speaker 4: feel very exhausted from pretending to be part of a

642
00:30:48,902 --> 00:30:51,542
Speaker 4: even like you know, workforces, we've become so obsessed with

643
00:30:51,582 --> 00:30:53,142
Speaker 4: the team a part of the team. If you're not

644
00:30:53,142 --> 00:30:55,702
Speaker 4: part of the team, then there's no there's no iron tea,

645
00:30:55,862 --> 00:30:59,261
Speaker 4: there's no And it's like that pretending can be very

646
00:30:59,302 --> 00:31:00,221
Speaker 4: exhausting for people.

647
00:31:00,302 --> 00:31:02,782
Speaker 3: So yeah, and I think that what it is is

648
00:31:02,782 --> 00:31:05,701
Speaker 3: that often when you do belong to a group, whatever

649
00:31:05,822 --> 00:31:08,542
Speaker 3: kind of group it is, the thing that feels suffocating

650
00:31:08,622 --> 00:31:11,021
Speaker 3: is that you're expecting to co sign on all of

651
00:31:11,062 --> 00:31:14,181
Speaker 3: these things and nearly always, whether it's you know, a

652
00:31:14,182 --> 00:31:16,262
Speaker 3: political position that I might hold that I would have

653
00:31:16,302 --> 00:31:18,342
Speaker 3: a million things in common with the other people who

654
00:31:18,382 --> 00:31:21,182
Speaker 3: hold that, but of course there will be five things

655
00:31:21,222 --> 00:31:22,662
Speaker 3: on that list that you don't.

656
00:31:22,542 --> 00:31:25,062
Speaker 4: Know and you're not willing to compromise on, and you're like.

657
00:31:25,062 --> 00:31:26,622
Speaker 3: I'm not here for that, you know. And so I

658
00:31:26,661 --> 00:31:28,902
Speaker 3: think that that's why it's tricky if you're an outrovert

659
00:31:28,942 --> 00:31:31,781
Speaker 3: to join anything. I also think, not to be too

660
00:31:31,822 --> 00:31:33,862
Speaker 3: wanky about it, but it's probably useful for a rider,

661
00:31:33,902 --> 00:31:36,622
Speaker 3: because the cliche about riders is you're an observer, right,

662
00:31:36,661 --> 00:31:38,661
Speaker 3: You're always a little bit on the outside looking, and

663
00:31:38,782 --> 00:31:41,102
Speaker 3: like I love looking at families because I'm not part

664
00:31:41,142 --> 00:31:43,262
Speaker 3: of a big family and all those things closure blind.

665
00:31:43,542 --> 00:31:44,622
Speaker 4: Yes, yes, they.

666
00:31:46,982 --> 00:31:47,902
Speaker 5: Like watching it.

667
00:31:49,062 --> 00:31:51,822
Speaker 3: I think that that is probably a bit otroverty of

668
00:31:51,902 --> 00:31:53,622
Speaker 3: me too. I hope this has made sense to some

669
00:31:53,702 --> 00:31:56,502
Speaker 3: out louders that you're like, oh yeah, now I know

670
00:31:56,542 --> 00:31:58,342
Speaker 3: what I am, and and I'll be like, who cares what.

671
00:31:59,982 --> 00:32:03,582
Speaker 5: She's right, it's coming to my birthday. I promise I'll

672
00:32:03,582 --> 00:32:06,422
Speaker 5: come to thank you so much. Yeah. Yeah, I'll just.

673
00:32:06,382 --> 00:32:10,782
Speaker 3: Find someone to talk to. I've got a little bit

674
00:32:10,782 --> 00:32:12,221
Speaker 3: of news to share with the group. You know how

675
00:32:12,222 --> 00:32:14,142
Speaker 3: sometimes we do this on Friday, and sometimes it's big,

676
00:32:14,222 --> 00:32:16,142
Speaker 3: Like it's big, like me is taking a break or whatever.

677
00:32:16,182 --> 00:32:19,662
Speaker 3: I've just got something very important to Last week, Brent

678
00:32:19,702 --> 00:32:23,062
Speaker 3: and I won pop trivia for the first time. So

679
00:32:23,262 --> 00:32:26,382
Speaker 3: Thursday nights it's our date night. Yeah, two little lotroverts

680
00:32:26,982 --> 00:32:28,262
Speaker 3: refusing to join a big team.

681
00:32:28,462 --> 00:32:30,342
Speaker 5: You guys are smallest. It's a team of two. Wow,

682
00:32:30,582 --> 00:32:31,182
Speaker 5: just me and him.

683
00:32:31,422 --> 00:32:34,182
Speaker 4: Oh no, Holly, Holly, no, no, no, this is this

684
00:32:34,222 --> 00:32:37,661
Speaker 4: is a competitive disadvanta. This is what I find interesting

685
00:32:37,661 --> 00:32:40,942
Speaker 4: about trivia, right, there's a threshold at which too many

686
00:32:40,982 --> 00:32:41,981
Speaker 4: becomes a disadvantage.

687
00:32:41,982 --> 00:32:43,582
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, because they can't agree.

688
00:32:43,382 --> 00:32:46,302
Speaker 4: Exactly, and you start going, you guys are distracting.

689
00:32:45,822 --> 00:32:47,342
Speaker 5: And then you forget to do the sheet and you're

690
00:32:47,382 --> 00:32:49,062
Speaker 5: just drinking and exactly.

691
00:32:48,661 --> 00:32:51,702
Speaker 4: And it's like you're very distracting. I think probably five

692
00:32:51,782 --> 00:32:53,262
Speaker 4: or six might be the idea.

693
00:32:53,502 --> 00:32:56,022
Speaker 3: It's our date night, right, because we're that exciting that

694
00:32:56,102 --> 00:32:58,062
Speaker 3: on Thursday nights we go around the corner to the

695
00:32:58,062 --> 00:32:59,222
Speaker 3: local pub and we play trivia.

696
00:32:59,222 --> 00:33:01,062
Speaker 4: Your knowledge is like, how long have we been doing this.

697
00:33:01,182 --> 00:33:03,262
Speaker 3: Since we moved to where we live and you've only

698
00:33:03,302 --> 00:33:04,582
Speaker 3: just only just one.

699
00:33:04,542 --> 00:33:05,542
Speaker 5: This is how exciting it is.

700
00:33:05,582 --> 00:33:06,902
Speaker 3: But the main thing I need to share with you

701
00:33:06,902 --> 00:33:08,302
Speaker 3: in the out loud is the two things that got

702
00:33:08,382 --> 00:33:09,022
Speaker 3: us over the line.

703
00:33:09,022 --> 00:33:09,982
Speaker 7: Oh.

704
00:33:10,182 --> 00:33:13,302
Speaker 3: Number one, this is very out louder coded. They had

705
00:33:13,302 --> 00:33:14,982
Speaker 3: one of those who are my around you know where

706
00:33:14,982 --> 00:33:16,702
Speaker 3: they read out like facts about.

707
00:33:18,942 --> 00:33:19,981
Speaker 4: That is my skill.

708
00:33:20,982 --> 00:33:24,822
Speaker 3: And the first two only took me to the first

709
00:33:24,862 --> 00:33:28,422
Speaker 3: two was I was born on February eleventh, nineteen sixty nine.

710
00:33:29,222 --> 00:33:32,742
Speaker 3: I was born in Sherman Oaks, California. And I leapt

711
00:33:32,782 --> 00:33:34,622
Speaker 3: from my seat and I said, Amber, that's the name

712
00:33:34,661 --> 00:33:38,702
Speaker 3: of our trivia master, Amber, I said, Amber, it's Jennifer Aniston.

713
00:33:40,102 --> 00:33:44,062
Speaker 5: And it was Jennifer, Oh my god. The other one

714
00:33:44,102 --> 00:33:46,262
Speaker 5: did everyone look at you like you're a goness? Well no,

715
00:33:46,342 --> 00:33:48,222
Speaker 5: they looked to me like there was something wrong with me.

716
00:33:48,262 --> 00:33:51,582
Speaker 3: Because who knows from only those two facts that it

717
00:33:51,622 --> 00:33:52,582
Speaker 3: was Jennifer Aniston.

718
00:33:52,582 --> 00:33:53,862
Speaker 5: Oh my god, you're going to be known as the

719
00:33:53,902 --> 00:33:56,582
Speaker 5: Jennifer Aniston woman Trivia.

720
00:33:56,382 --> 00:33:58,622
Speaker 3: And the other thing was a beout. Jesse knows this.

721
00:33:59,142 --> 00:34:01,302
Speaker 3: What is a sapio sexual attracted to?

722
00:34:01,462 --> 00:34:04,021
Speaker 5: Okay? Why did you not think? I know that? That

723
00:34:04,142 --> 00:34:10,622
Speaker 5: is insane? Gone? What does a sap sexual fund attractive? Okay?

724
00:34:10,702 --> 00:34:16,342
Speaker 5: So it's sapio and nature is what I'm thinking, which

725
00:34:16,382 --> 00:34:19,942
Speaker 5: means like sapio sounds like cpia.

726
00:34:21,181 --> 00:34:21,982
Speaker 4: Yeah, I love it.

727
00:34:22,062 --> 00:34:23,821
Speaker 5: Are you sexually attracted to?

728
00:34:24,062 --> 00:34:25,901
Speaker 4: This is why you want too many people on your team?

729
00:34:26,062 --> 00:34:31,062
Speaker 5: Olden day movies, it's quite close. That would be quite hot.

730
00:34:31,102 --> 00:34:34,421
Speaker 4: But Jesse, isn't it when you're attracted to someone's brain?

731
00:34:34,661 --> 00:34:35,102
Speaker 8: Yes?

732
00:34:36,181 --> 00:34:36,982
Speaker 2: Course you knew that.

733
00:34:38,382 --> 00:34:43,102
Speaker 3: It's intelligence and I was Trivia. Who knew that its

734
00:34:43,181 --> 00:34:44,462
Speaker 3: because why we were?

735
00:34:44,982 --> 00:34:45,181
Speaker 8: You know?

736
00:34:45,302 --> 00:34:47,902
Speaker 4: My other special skill is when they get the sheet

737
00:34:47,942 --> 00:34:51,781
Speaker 4: out of celebrities as children, Yes, and they're like, who's this?

738
00:34:52,022 --> 00:34:53,941
Speaker 4: And I'm like, give me the pen. This is one

739
00:34:53,942 --> 00:34:58,542
Speaker 4: that I got. What does Bob Prevost from Chicago have

740
00:34:58,661 --> 00:35:00,782
Speaker 4: in common with three billion people?

741
00:35:01,181 --> 00:35:01,381
Speaker 3: Oh?

742
00:35:02,622 --> 00:35:04,022
Speaker 5: He's a pope. He's the Pope.

743
00:35:04,062 --> 00:35:06,261
Speaker 4: Okay, the thing. We're all sitting there and we're going,

744
00:35:06,502 --> 00:35:10,102
Speaker 4: he's ahead of a tech company? Did he create national

745
00:35:10,181 --> 00:35:12,462
Speaker 4: broadband network? Like we're all doing it? And then I

746
00:35:12,502 --> 00:35:15,222
Speaker 4: had this moment. I was like, Bop from Chicago, why

747
00:35:15,342 --> 00:35:17,822
Speaker 4: is it ringing a bell? And I was like, who's

748
00:35:17,862 --> 00:35:20,942
Speaker 4: the fucking part? I was so excited. That's such a

749
00:35:20,942 --> 00:35:23,181
Speaker 4: good questions, such a good one because it doesn't sound

750
00:35:23,221 --> 00:35:24,142
Speaker 4: like the Pope doesn't.

751
00:35:24,181 --> 00:35:26,741
Speaker 3: Nothing like pub trivia, I'm telling you, like the people

752
00:35:26,781 --> 00:35:29,862
Speaker 3: who played pub trivia. A small town, we all vaguely

753
00:35:29,902 --> 00:35:32,462
Speaker 3: know each other. So whenever the celebrity sheets come out, they're.

754
00:35:32,261 --> 00:35:34,821
Speaker 4: Like, Oh, here we go.

755
00:35:34,982 --> 00:35:37,301
Speaker 2: Are you win a metre one hundred dollars out to

756
00:35:37,542 --> 00:35:40,062
Speaker 2: spend in the pub? Oh my god, that's amazing.

757
00:35:40,221 --> 00:35:41,661
Speaker 4: That's amazing, big weekend.

758
00:35:42,062 --> 00:35:44,102
Speaker 5: That's actually quite exciting. So there go.

759
00:35:44,221 --> 00:35:45,942
Speaker 3: That was the important thing to share with the group. Now,

760
00:35:45,982 --> 00:35:47,542
Speaker 3: I'm sure we've got more important things.

761
00:35:47,342 --> 00:35:50,261
Speaker 2: To talk about out louders after the break, we have

762
00:35:50,302 --> 00:35:53,902
Speaker 2: some recommendations that you can watch all weekends.

763
00:35:54,022 --> 00:35:57,782
Speaker 3: One unlimited out loud access. We drop episodes every Tuesday

764
00:35:57,822 --> 00:36:01,901
Speaker 3: and Thursday exclusively for Mamma Mia subscribers follow the link

765
00:36:01,902 --> 00:36:03,662
Speaker 3: in the show notes to get us in your ears

766
00:36:03,942 --> 00:36:06,661
Speaker 3: five days a week, and a huge thank you to

767
00:36:06,862 --> 00:36:13,741
Speaker 3: all our current subscribers.

768
00:36:16,902 --> 00:36:20,782
Speaker 7: Vibes ideas atmosphere, something casual, something fun.

769
00:36:21,342 --> 00:36:22,861
Speaker 9: This is my best recommendation.

770
00:36:23,982 --> 00:36:26,181
Speaker 2: It is Friday, and we want to help set up

771
00:36:26,181 --> 00:36:28,421
Speaker 2: your weekend with our very best recommendation.

772
00:36:28,701 --> 00:36:29,901
Speaker 5: Holly, do you want to kick it off?

773
00:36:30,221 --> 00:36:30,661
Speaker 9: I do.

774
00:36:30,982 --> 00:36:33,741
Speaker 3: I have a recommendation for a TV show that's on

775
00:36:33,822 --> 00:36:35,462
Speaker 3: Binge and it's called Mixtape.

776
00:36:35,622 --> 00:36:39,261
Speaker 7: Right, you never forget the boy who makes you your

777
00:36:39,261 --> 00:36:45,661
Speaker 7: first mixtape.

778
00:36:45,822 --> 00:36:46,422
Speaker 8: One dance.

779
00:36:46,661 --> 00:36:48,941
Speaker 3: I'm gonna walk you on one dance, but you won't

780
00:36:48,942 --> 00:36:49,462
Speaker 3: be walking me on.

781
00:36:53,982 --> 00:36:54,181
Speaker 7: Kay.

782
00:36:55,302 --> 00:36:56,701
Speaker 1: I know when you're shutting me out.

783
00:36:57,701 --> 00:37:00,741
Speaker 5: Allie, soon it don't just up and leave home.

784
00:37:00,781 --> 00:37:01,542
Speaker 6: It's seventeen.

785
00:37:01,862 --> 00:37:02,741
Speaker 7: I will shit it bath.

786
00:37:06,221 --> 00:37:09,702
Speaker 3: She's not coming back. Theresa Palmer is like the busiest one.

787
00:37:09,781 --> 00:37:10,342
Speaker 5: She's everywhere.

788
00:37:10,862 --> 00:37:11,381
Speaker 8: Does she have.

789
00:37:11,902 --> 00:37:13,622
Speaker 5: Four fourteen children?

790
00:37:13,781 --> 00:37:16,381
Speaker 3: She has so many children and she's so amazing, but

791
00:37:16,422 --> 00:37:18,022
Speaker 3: she seems to be in everything at the moment.

792
00:37:18,102 --> 00:37:19,861
Speaker 5: Okay, I'm going to need you to step it up.

793
00:37:22,142 --> 00:37:24,502
Speaker 5: She's in this.

794
00:37:24,822 --> 00:37:27,942
Speaker 3: So Mixtape is a four part show. Now it's interesting

795
00:37:27,942 --> 00:37:31,821
Speaker 3: because it's a co production between Ireland, England and Australia,

796
00:37:32,261 --> 00:37:34,982
Speaker 3: and Theresa Palmer and Jim Sturgis who's a British actor

797
00:37:34,982 --> 00:37:37,341
Speaker 3: who he was in the movie version of One Day

798
00:37:37,382 --> 00:37:39,381
Speaker 3: with Anne Hathaway, you know, like back in the Oh.

799
00:37:39,542 --> 00:37:41,901
Speaker 3: I love that movie and he's back in the Day

800
00:37:42,462 --> 00:37:43,942
Speaker 3: last year and yes.

801
00:37:43,741 --> 00:37:46,062
Speaker 4: No, it wasn't that. That was the original one, and

802
00:37:46,102 --> 00:37:47,941
Speaker 4: there was one.

803
00:37:49,221 --> 00:37:53,102
Speaker 3: Yes, here is the original Leo Woodhall many Steps. But anyway,

804
00:37:53,701 --> 00:37:57,222
Speaker 3: it's called mixtape because it's about first love. So Theresa

805
00:37:57,221 --> 00:37:59,902
Speaker 3: Palmer and Jim sturg just play people who are supposedly

806
00:37:59,902 --> 00:38:01,862
Speaker 3: about my age and I tell you what, Theresa Palmer

807
00:38:02,022 --> 00:38:04,221
Speaker 3: not my age. But they put a few wrinkles on

808
00:38:04,261 --> 00:38:07,382
Speaker 3: her and here we go and they are dreaming of

809
00:38:07,422 --> 00:38:09,661
Speaker 3: reconnecting with their first love, who was each other. And

810
00:38:09,701 --> 00:38:11,062
Speaker 3: they fell in love at high school.

811
00:38:11,062 --> 00:38:12,222
Speaker 5: So it's a story that's told.

812
00:38:12,062 --> 00:38:15,661
Speaker 3: On two Front's reason it's called mixtape is because when

813
00:38:15,661 --> 00:38:18,382
Speaker 3: they met at a school party in Sheffield in the

814
00:38:18,422 --> 00:38:20,741
Speaker 3: north of England when they were young, they bonded over

815
00:38:20,822 --> 00:38:23,661
Speaker 3: music of the time and because it was dining in

816
00:38:23,701 --> 00:38:26,901
Speaker 3: eighty nine or whatever, the music is amazing, so there's

817
00:38:26,902 --> 00:38:30,702
Speaker 3: an amazing soundtrack. But anyway, fast forward thirty years or whatever,

818
00:38:30,741 --> 00:38:34,902
Speaker 3: twenty five years. They are now both married to other people.

819
00:38:35,062 --> 00:38:38,502
Speaker 3: She lives in Australia, he lives still in Sheffield, and

820
00:38:38,701 --> 00:38:40,861
Speaker 3: things happen that mean that they come back into each

821
00:38:40,862 --> 00:38:43,862
Speaker 3: other's mind and they reconnect by sending each other songs

822
00:38:43,862 --> 00:38:46,421
Speaker 3: on Spotify, which is they never talked. They're not friends

823
00:38:46,462 --> 00:38:49,021
Speaker 3: on Facebook or anything, which is something I've never thought

824
00:38:49,022 --> 00:38:51,542
Speaker 3: to do, but now I feel the need to do it. Yeah,

825
00:38:51,862 --> 00:38:56,142
Speaker 3: songs anyway, and then what happens is it explores, you know, why.

826
00:38:56,022 --> 00:38:57,102
Speaker 5: Did these people ever break up?

827
00:38:57,102 --> 00:38:58,901
Speaker 3: Blah blah blah blah blah. Are they going to get together?

828
00:38:58,942 --> 00:39:00,622
Speaker 3: He traveled to Australia, doesn't really work.

829
00:39:01,102 --> 00:39:04,342
Speaker 4: So it's like it's is it like a straight drama?

830
00:39:04,582 --> 00:39:05,382
Speaker 5: Like it's a drama.

831
00:39:05,542 --> 00:39:08,181
Speaker 3: It's got quite heavy themes because you find out from

832
00:39:08,261 --> 00:39:11,301
Speaker 3: the young versions of them, like the reasons why they

833
00:39:11,342 --> 00:39:13,862
Speaker 3: broke up. There's quite a lot of trauma in Allison,

834
00:39:13,862 --> 00:39:17,221
Speaker 3: who's Theresa Partner's character's background that he was never really

835
00:39:17,261 --> 00:39:19,462
Speaker 3: aware of because she would never open up her family

836
00:39:19,502 --> 00:39:22,022
Speaker 3: to him and stuff. So there's like it's really interesting.

837
00:39:22,022 --> 00:39:23,861
Speaker 3: It's one of those TV shows that I can't stop

838
00:39:23,902 --> 00:39:26,341
Speaker 3: thinking about because it's not like perfect.

839
00:39:26,462 --> 00:39:28,701
Speaker 5: There's a weird casting. It's always really hard.

840
00:39:28,502 --> 00:39:31,181
Speaker 3: To depict the partners of people who aren't the right partners,

841
00:39:31,221 --> 00:39:32,422
Speaker 3: do you know what I mean? So he's got a

842
00:39:32,462 --> 00:39:35,022
Speaker 3: wife and she's got a husband, and you're a little

843
00:39:35,062 --> 00:39:37,861
Speaker 3: bit like I'm not quite sure why you two would be.

844
00:39:38,062 --> 00:39:42,701
Speaker 3: But anyway, the whole question, of course, is are they gonna, yeah, reconnect.

845
00:39:42,741 --> 00:39:45,102
Speaker 3: They're clearly meant for each other on this deep level,

846
00:39:45,142 --> 00:39:48,462
Speaker 3: and are they going to reconnect? And it's just a

847
00:39:48,502 --> 00:39:55,782
Speaker 3: really lovely, slightly challenging TV show with an amazing.

848
00:39:55,142 --> 00:40:00,302
Speaker 4: Soundtrack, and it's called Mixtape and great em what's your record?

849
00:40:00,542 --> 00:40:04,261
Speaker 2: Okay, I'm recommending a fairly new TV show.

850
00:40:04,022 --> 00:40:06,502
Speaker 5: Out on Disney Plus. It's called Alien Earth.

851
00:40:09,661 --> 00:40:10,341
Speaker 1: How's our Girl?

852
00:40:11,221 --> 00:40:11,862
Speaker 5: She's ready.

853
00:40:14,862 --> 00:40:16,861
Speaker 7: You're going to be the first person to transition from

854
00:40:16,902 --> 00:40:19,782
Speaker 7: a human body.

855
00:40:18,781 --> 00:40:21,422
Speaker 5: To a synthetic because I'm special.

856
00:40:22,142 --> 00:40:24,822
Speaker 2: That's right, You're very.

857
00:40:26,582 --> 00:40:29,462
Speaker 7: Very special.

858
00:40:32,462 --> 00:40:33,301
Speaker 4: It's popped up for me.

859
00:40:33,422 --> 00:40:36,182
Speaker 2: Oh, it's part of the Alien franchise. I was really

860
00:40:36,302 --> 00:40:39,461
Speaker 2: interested in this because it went viral before the show

861
00:40:39,502 --> 00:40:42,302
Speaker 2: even came out, because it had over a two hundred

862
00:40:42,302 --> 00:40:45,421
Speaker 2: and fifty million dollar budget, which is very very rare

863
00:40:45,462 --> 00:40:47,901
Speaker 2: for TV shows, so they're really backing this show.

864
00:40:47,982 --> 00:40:49,342
Speaker 4: This is like that's a movie budget.

865
00:40:49,342 --> 00:40:52,582
Speaker 2: It's like a Game of Thrones budget, like massive, massive budget.

866
00:40:52,902 --> 00:40:55,462
Speaker 2: Watch the first episode if you're a fan of like

867
00:40:55,741 --> 00:40:59,022
Speaker 2: it's not like super super horror like the original Alien

868
00:40:59,102 --> 00:41:03,941
Speaker 2: movies with Sigourney Weaver. It's more like creepy dystopian. It's

869
00:41:03,942 --> 00:41:07,062
Speaker 2: still a bit bloody, what's it like? The special effects

870
00:41:07,102 --> 00:41:10,741
Speaker 2: are insane and like the prop so it's just so good.

871
00:41:10,781 --> 00:41:14,102
Speaker 2: So basically the premise of it is like our world

872
00:41:14,261 --> 00:41:17,261
Speaker 2: in the future, there's no more government. Instead, it's these

873
00:41:17,342 --> 00:41:22,221
Speaker 2: massive evil corporations that basically own countries country.

874
00:41:22,302 --> 00:41:25,542
Speaker 5: Is that about the future, It's like about right now.

875
00:41:25,982 --> 00:41:28,981
Speaker 2: So what's happening with these companies is that they all

876
00:41:29,062 --> 00:41:31,982
Speaker 2: are working on how to make everyone immortal, and there

877
00:41:31,982 --> 00:41:32,381
Speaker 2: are like.

878
00:41:32,542 --> 00:41:34,382
Speaker 5: Awsome like a documentary.

879
00:41:34,862 --> 00:41:38,941
Speaker 2: There are three contenders on immortality. There's the cyborgs, which

880
00:41:38,942 --> 00:41:41,942
Speaker 2: are humans but enhanced. There's the synths, which are just

881
00:41:42,062 --> 00:41:45,302
Speaker 2: artificial beings, and then the hybrids, which are artificial beings

882
00:41:45,342 --> 00:41:48,142
Speaker 2: with the human conscious. And these three are competing kind

883
00:41:48,142 --> 00:41:50,902
Speaker 2: of like how AI like Chatchy compet like Pupactica like

884
00:41:50,902 --> 00:41:53,022
Speaker 2: that that's one of them wants to be the best,

885
00:41:53,422 --> 00:41:56,022
Speaker 2: and then the alien comes and just sucks up everything.

886
00:41:56,062 --> 00:41:57,782
Speaker 3: And when you say it's part of the Alien Frontise,

887
00:41:57,781 --> 00:41:59,102
Speaker 3: you mean like Alien the movie.

888
00:41:59,261 --> 00:42:00,062
Speaker 5: Yeah, like the movie.

889
00:42:00,261 --> 00:42:03,382
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean she's not in it, sadly, but

890
00:42:03,741 --> 00:42:07,102
Speaker 2: there's like, yeah, there's like some beautiful scenes that like

891
00:42:07,302 --> 00:42:10,341
Speaker 2: kind of replicate the original Alien when they're all sitting

892
00:42:10,382 --> 00:42:13,261
Speaker 2: at the dinner table laughing in the spaceship. What's really

893
00:42:13,302 --> 00:42:15,261
Speaker 2: different about this alien if you're a fan of the

894
00:42:15,302 --> 00:42:17,781
Speaker 2: Alien movie, is that all the alien movies take place

895
00:42:17,862 --> 00:42:20,822
Speaker 2: either in space or on the aircraft. This one takes

896
00:42:20,862 --> 00:42:23,181
Speaker 2: place on Earth, so the aircraft like lands on Earth,

897
00:42:23,221 --> 00:42:26,261
Speaker 2: so you actually see the aliens on Earth. And the

898
00:42:26,342 --> 00:42:31,902
Speaker 2: special effects are insane, Like it's so so well done,

899
00:42:32,062 --> 00:42:34,062
Speaker 2: but it is a bit scary, So if you have

900
00:42:34,102 --> 00:42:35,782
Speaker 2: little eyes around, it's great.

901
00:42:36,822 --> 00:42:41,662
Speaker 4: My recommendation is a three part Netflix documentary. Has anyone

902
00:42:41,661 --> 00:42:43,142
Speaker 4: watched Amy Bradley is missing?

903
00:42:43,422 --> 00:42:43,582
Speaker 7: No?

904
00:42:43,741 --> 00:42:45,941
Speaker 5: Seen it? Pop up? Yes? Come up? Seeing it? Ever

905
00:42:46,261 --> 00:42:47,501
Speaker 5: something to do with the cruise ship?

906
00:42:47,622 --> 00:42:47,861
Speaker 4: Yes?

907
00:42:48,862 --> 00:42:52,982
Speaker 5: Have you ever wanted to kill somebody?

908
00:42:53,382 --> 00:42:55,902
Speaker 8: Just take them on a cruise exactly?

909
00:42:55,982 --> 00:42:57,701
Speaker 1: What has happened to their daughter.

910
00:42:57,582 --> 00:43:00,342
Speaker 9: Is a mystery You'll Never Get.

911
00:43:00,181 --> 00:43:04,781
Speaker 6: Caught Welcomeboard the MS Rhapsody of the Seas.

912
00:43:04,781 --> 00:43:07,301
Speaker 9: Amy Bradley was twenty three and she was on her

913
00:43:07,342 --> 00:43:08,222
Speaker 9: family vacation.

914
00:43:09,942 --> 00:43:12,821
Speaker 3: Was crystal clear, her life was good, everything was great.

915
00:43:13,062 --> 00:43:15,021
Speaker 3: Thought of theory tomorrow and went to bed.

916
00:43:20,502 --> 00:43:22,942
Speaker 4: Around five thirty in the morning, I saw Amy on

917
00:43:22,982 --> 00:43:24,862
Speaker 4: the balcony six o'clock.

918
00:43:24,942 --> 00:43:25,662
Speaker 6: Woke up again.

919
00:43:26,542 --> 00:43:27,382
Speaker 2: She wasn't there.

920
00:43:27,582 --> 00:43:29,261
Speaker 4: Kept seeing it pop up, and I was like, I

921
00:43:29,302 --> 00:43:31,542
Speaker 4: don't know, Like, she goes missing on her cruise, Like

922
00:43:31,582 --> 00:43:35,301
Speaker 4: how how complicated can it be? Yeah, Anyway, we started watching.

923
00:43:35,302 --> 00:43:37,381
Speaker 4: It's about this twenty three year old woman who gets

924
00:43:37,382 --> 00:43:39,622
Speaker 4: on this cruise shit with her family in nineteen ninety eight,

925
00:43:40,221 --> 00:43:43,181
Speaker 4: and she's last seen at five am by her dad.

926
00:43:43,221 --> 00:43:45,342
Speaker 4: She's just out on the balcony. He thinks she's probably

927
00:43:45,382 --> 00:43:47,582
Speaker 4: asleep or something, can see her legs. And then at

928
00:43:47,622 --> 00:43:49,822
Speaker 4: six am he kind of wakes with a start because

929
00:43:49,902 --> 00:43:52,582
Speaker 4: he hears something and he notices that the door's open

930
00:43:53,181 --> 00:43:55,781
Speaker 4: to the room, looks like she's changed her shirt, and

931
00:43:55,822 --> 00:43:57,181
Speaker 4: he's like, oh, she must have gone up for a

932
00:43:57,181 --> 00:43:59,181
Speaker 4: coffee or whatever. So he goes up and tries to

933
00:43:59,181 --> 00:44:02,181
Speaker 4: find her, cannot find her. Hours pass and they're like,

934
00:44:02,302 --> 00:44:05,221
Speaker 4: where has she gone? And so they say to the

935
00:44:05,302 --> 00:44:07,381
Speaker 4: captain and you know, try and escalate it, and they say,

936
00:44:07,382 --> 00:44:09,301
Speaker 4: because the ship's about to dock, they go, before we

937
00:44:09,342 --> 00:44:11,342
Speaker 4: dock the ship, can we please find her because we

938
00:44:11,622 --> 00:44:14,102
Speaker 4: can't find her anywhere. And they're like no, like this

939
00:44:14,142 --> 00:44:15,701
Speaker 4: is part of the ship that they get to go

940
00:44:15,741 --> 00:44:18,102
Speaker 4: out to this new island and see things. And they're like,

941
00:44:18,502 --> 00:44:21,342
Speaker 4: please don't dock Anyway, they dock, they open the doors.

942
00:44:21,582 --> 00:44:23,781
Speaker 4: By this point, a lot of people are thinking she's

943
00:44:23,822 --> 00:44:26,502
Speaker 4: fallen overboard, like whether that's on purpose or whether it's

944
00:44:26,542 --> 00:44:30,942
Speaker 4: by accident. But the twists that come in the next

945
00:44:30,942 --> 00:44:35,622
Speaker 4: two episodes about sightings of her, about people who say

946
00:44:35,622 --> 00:44:39,102
Speaker 4: they've had interactions with her that are so compelling, like

947
00:44:39,181 --> 00:44:40,502
Speaker 4: seems so real.

948
00:44:40,342 --> 00:44:42,341
Speaker 3: Because I would have read about this case right, and

949
00:44:42,822 --> 00:44:45,582
Speaker 3: generally she went overboard, yeah, but nobody knows why.

950
00:44:45,661 --> 00:44:46,701
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, exactly.

951
00:44:46,741 --> 00:44:48,742
Speaker 5: But her family thinks she went overboard.

952
00:44:48,822 --> 00:44:51,022
Speaker 4: No, and the reason why is because they were actually

953
00:44:51,062 --> 00:44:53,742
Speaker 4: quite close to a coastline when she would have gone overboard,

954
00:44:53,781 --> 00:44:56,221
Speaker 4: and all the locals, the coast guard are going, we

955
00:44:56,302 --> 00:44:58,741
Speaker 4: know our waters. Someone goes overboard, they wash up. There

956
00:44:58,822 --> 00:45:00,701
Speaker 4: is no world in which she doesn't wash up, Like

957
00:45:00,741 --> 00:45:04,822
Speaker 4: that's really weird. And so all these bizarre things happen

958
00:45:04,902 --> 00:45:07,301
Speaker 4: and you just think, how does someone go missing on

959
00:45:07,302 --> 00:45:10,381
Speaker 4: a cruise ship? Like it's mind blowing. So that's really

960
00:45:10,382 --> 00:45:13,221
Speaker 4: good three part documentary on Netflix. But I want to

961
00:45:13,221 --> 00:45:15,861
Speaker 4: throw an extra one who here has seen the f

962
00:45:15,902 --> 00:45:16,462
Speaker 4: one movie?

963
00:45:16,502 --> 00:45:16,781
Speaker 5: You know?

964
00:45:16,902 --> 00:45:19,421
Speaker 2: I saw the opening weekend and I wrote many, many

965
00:45:19,462 --> 00:45:20,102
Speaker 2: things about it.

966
00:45:20,261 --> 00:45:22,781
Speaker 3: Okay, she has seen it. I saw it on the

967
00:45:22,781 --> 00:45:24,942
Speaker 3: weekend like you did, Jesse, in my living room. I

968
00:45:25,022 --> 00:45:27,102
Speaker 3: know it's meant for a big screen, but the biggest

969
00:45:27,102 --> 00:45:29,382
Speaker 3: screen I could get for it is in my living room.

970
00:45:29,221 --> 00:45:32,741
Speaker 4: Because on Apple TV, like I thoroughly enjoyed it. Is

971
00:45:32,741 --> 00:45:34,301
Speaker 4: it a good film? Would we say no?

972
00:45:34,741 --> 00:45:38,901
Speaker 5: I didn't think it was. Like I enjoyed it. I

973
00:45:38,942 --> 00:45:41,062
Speaker 5: didn't think it was a good film. I wanted to

974
00:45:41,062 --> 00:45:43,142
Speaker 5: talk about it too, okay, because.

975
00:45:42,781 --> 00:45:46,502
Speaker 4: I just I really enjoyed my Saturday night. It was

976
00:45:46,502 --> 00:45:50,422
Speaker 4: a real spectacle. Like the amount of people that were involved.

977
00:45:50,022 --> 00:45:51,542
Speaker 5: With you excited.

978
00:45:51,582 --> 00:45:53,382
Speaker 3: There were a lot of people from Drive to Survive

979
00:45:53,422 --> 00:45:55,661
Speaker 3: in that bave and I could tell and.

980
00:45:56,022 --> 00:45:59,062
Speaker 4: Was that movie made for us? Like as in people

981
00:45:59,062 --> 00:46:01,462
Speaker 4: who have Drive to Survive? Send me know the rules,

982
00:46:01,462 --> 00:46:04,462
Speaker 4: don't totally know the rules and therefore can defy logic

983
00:46:04,502 --> 00:46:06,982
Speaker 4: and just understand that Brad Pitt could return to F one.

984
00:46:06,862 --> 00:46:10,382
Speaker 3: As a sixty year old. But also so it was made.

985
00:46:10,462 --> 00:46:11,902
Speaker 3: The reason I was excited to see it in the

986
00:46:11,942 --> 00:46:13,662
Speaker 3: first place, because I'm not a big F one person

987
00:46:13,741 --> 00:46:16,022
Speaker 3: like you are, is that it's made by the people

988
00:46:16,062 --> 00:46:18,622
Speaker 3: who made Top Gun Maverick. Now, I went on and

989
00:46:18,661 --> 00:46:20,221
Speaker 3: on about Top Gun Maverick a couple of years ago

990
00:46:20,261 --> 00:46:22,142
Speaker 3: when it came out because I haven't had a better

991
00:46:22,142 --> 00:46:24,421
Speaker 3: time at the movies in years than I did when

992
00:46:24,582 --> 00:46:26,582
Speaker 3: I won't see that, And I know Tom Cruise is problematic,

993
00:46:26,622 --> 00:46:30,982
Speaker 3: and so's Brad Pitt, let's be honest, but just so great,

994
00:46:31,102 --> 00:46:33,982
Speaker 3: so much fun, couldn't get over it. Made by the

995
00:46:33,982 --> 00:46:37,622
Speaker 3: same people, budget the size of a small country, like

996
00:46:38,102 --> 00:46:40,062
Speaker 3: films everywhere in the world, and it's pretty much the

997
00:46:40,062 --> 00:46:43,542
Speaker 3: same premise, which is dude over hill, Yeah, comes back

998
00:46:43,582 --> 00:46:46,821
Speaker 3: to show those youngsters what he's made of what they've made.

999
00:46:47,062 --> 00:46:48,982
Speaker 3: So you're appealing there to a whole lot of people,

1000
00:46:49,102 --> 00:46:51,582
Speaker 3: the Gen x's who are like, I'm not over the hill,

1001
00:46:51,622 --> 00:46:54,062
Speaker 3: I've still got it, and the young people and all

1002
00:46:54,102 --> 00:46:56,261
Speaker 3: the new F one fans and people who are like

1003
00:46:56,302 --> 00:46:59,502
Speaker 3: Brad Pitt but very compelling. But I was like halfway

1004
00:46:59,502 --> 00:47:03,942
Speaker 3: through it and I thought, oh, Brad, I thought, even

1005
00:47:03,982 --> 00:47:06,701
Speaker 3: putting aside what we now know about what happened, and

1006
00:47:06,701 --> 00:47:07,582
Speaker 3: we've talked about this on the.

1007
00:47:07,542 --> 00:47:08,942
Speaker 4: Show before, which is very difficult.

1008
00:47:09,062 --> 00:47:11,261
Speaker 3: We didn't episode called what do we do with a

1009
00:47:11,261 --> 00:47:13,821
Speaker 3: problem like Brad Pitt? So even putting that aside, and

1010
00:47:13,902 --> 00:47:17,302
Speaker 3: just I can appreciate the beauty of that amazing Cuman.

1011
00:47:17,542 --> 00:47:20,341
Speaker 2: Yeah, but like he's better than that. He used to

1012
00:47:20,342 --> 00:47:23,062
Speaker 2: be better than that. Terrible dialogue, but don't you reckon?

1013
00:47:23,422 --> 00:47:26,742
Speaker 4: I just walked out of that. And when Brad Pitt,

1014
00:47:26,781 --> 00:47:27,462
Speaker 4: how old is he?

1015
00:47:27,462 --> 00:47:28,982
Speaker 5: He's sixty one years old.

1016
00:47:28,942 --> 00:47:31,421
Speaker 4: So he's accomplished so much. He's got all the money

1017
00:47:31,422 --> 00:47:33,702
Speaker 4: in the world. He's heading to sixty and he goes,

1018
00:47:33,982 --> 00:47:34,661
Speaker 4: what do you want to do?

1019
00:47:34,701 --> 00:47:35,022
Speaker 1: Brad?

1020
00:47:35,382 --> 00:47:36,582
Speaker 4: Right, he looks in the mirror, goes, what do you

1021
00:47:36,582 --> 00:47:38,102
Speaker 4: want to do? I'd like to drive an F one

1022
00:47:38,102 --> 00:47:39,022
Speaker 4: carve really fast.

1023
00:47:39,062 --> 00:47:41,181
Speaker 5: I just like he's like that Tom Cruise Fellow, feels

1024
00:47:41,221 --> 00:47:42,062
Speaker 5: like he's got to figure it out.

1025
00:47:42,181 --> 00:47:44,221
Speaker 4: Yes, And I think he went I'd like to be

1026
00:47:44,261 --> 00:47:45,262
Speaker 4: friends with Lewis Hamilton.

1027
00:47:45,422 --> 00:47:46,542
Speaker 5: Yeah, I'd like, which is fair?

1028
00:47:46,622 --> 00:47:49,622
Speaker 4: I mean I wouldam And so he's like, what would

1029
00:47:49,661 --> 00:47:51,941
Speaker 4: be fun to do? I'd like to join F one?

1030
00:47:52,221 --> 00:47:55,701
Speaker 4: And I feel as though the whole project was sort

1031
00:47:55,741 --> 00:47:57,821
Speaker 4: of a vanity project for Brad Pitt to be like,

1032
00:47:58,181 --> 00:48:02,462
Speaker 4: this is every sixty year old man's dream. Did you

1033
00:48:02,582 --> 00:48:05,582
Speaker 4: know that this is the highest grossing Brad Pitt movie

1034
00:48:05,582 --> 00:48:06,022
Speaker 4: of all time?

1035
00:48:06,462 --> 00:48:08,982
Speaker 5: Is it? Indeed? It is so one thing? I don't know.

1036
00:48:09,022 --> 00:48:09,502
Speaker 5: You can tell me.

1037
00:48:09,741 --> 00:48:11,701
Speaker 3: Has it been deemed the success that it needed to

1038
00:48:11,741 --> 00:48:13,421
Speaker 3: be to pay for that small nation?

1039
00:48:13,542 --> 00:48:16,622
Speaker 4: And they're talking about a sequel? It has made so

1040
00:48:16,701 --> 00:48:18,582
Speaker 4: much money and a lot of people like the reviews

1041
00:48:18,582 --> 00:48:20,702
Speaker 4: are bad, the reviews actually on that mad The reason

1042
00:48:20,862 --> 00:48:22,781
Speaker 4: not like the average person was.

1043
00:48:22,822 --> 00:48:25,382
Speaker 3: The script that upset me And okay, that's not what

1044
00:48:25,422 --> 00:48:28,702
Speaker 3: you're there for, but like, come on, some of the lines,

1045
00:48:28,701 --> 00:48:30,422
Speaker 3: brad Pitt's got it coming out of his mouth. I'm like,

1046
00:48:30,422 --> 00:48:32,421
Speaker 3: I bet he went home and counted after that.

1047
00:48:32,942 --> 00:48:33,902
Speaker 5: I could tell, could.

1048
00:48:33,741 --> 00:48:35,862
Speaker 2: You tell, because I know we talked about how Simone

1049
00:48:35,862 --> 00:48:38,661
Speaker 2: Ashley was completely cut from the movie. Yeah, I could

1050
00:48:38,661 --> 00:48:41,462
Speaker 2: tell exactly how perfectly she would have slotted in what.

1051
00:48:42,102 --> 00:48:44,142
Speaker 4: Was going to be the love interest of the younger.

1052
00:48:44,661 --> 00:48:47,021
Speaker 2: Interests of the younger F one driver, which made more

1053
00:48:47,062 --> 00:48:50,542
Speaker 2: sense than Brad Pitt having a love interest. Simone Ashley

1054
00:48:50,982 --> 00:48:54,181
Speaker 2: is an actress. She's a Tamil actress from Britain and

1055
00:48:54,221 --> 00:48:56,821
Speaker 2: she was in season two Bridgeton. Everyone knows her from that.

1056
00:48:56,902 --> 00:48:59,901
Speaker 2: She's absolutely brilliant. She was also in sex Education. So

1057
00:48:59,942 --> 00:49:02,382
Speaker 2: the whole thing about her is that she was actually

1058
00:49:02,462 --> 00:49:04,821
Speaker 2: in the F one movie. She did the press for it,

1059
00:49:04,982 --> 00:49:08,461
Speaker 2: she was doing an interview with Sport. They completely cut

1060
00:49:08,502 --> 00:49:12,342
Speaker 2: her role out completely, like there's no sign effects.

1061
00:49:12,382 --> 00:49:13,782
Speaker 5: I f for like one photo or something.

1062
00:49:13,902 --> 00:49:16,102
Speaker 3: It tells us a lot about the moment we're in

1063
00:49:16,542 --> 00:49:18,861
Speaker 3: where you can pull in Brad Pitt, who's got a

1064
00:49:18,862 --> 00:49:20,222
Speaker 3: few issues in the closet.

1065
00:49:20,302 --> 00:49:21,181
Speaker 5: Let's just put it that way.

1066
00:49:21,221 --> 00:49:24,902
Speaker 3: You can cut the entire role of a talented young

1067
00:49:24,942 --> 00:49:28,382
Speaker 3: woman of color actress, and yet it's still the biggest

1068
00:49:28,422 --> 00:49:31,742
Speaker 3: closing movie of the last fucking damn it. The problem

1069
00:49:31,781 --> 00:49:33,942
Speaker 3: with the most beautiful people in the world, and he

1070
00:49:34,582 --> 00:49:37,221
Speaker 3: is one even with all his issues, and there are

1071
00:49:37,221 --> 00:49:39,701
Speaker 3: lots of other actors and actresses who fit this mold too.

1072
00:49:39,781 --> 00:49:41,502
Speaker 3: Is the problem with them being in any movie?

1073
00:49:41,582 --> 00:49:43,261
Speaker 5: Is you just any room.

1074
00:49:43,302 --> 00:49:47,301
Speaker 3: They walked into the entire dynamic of everything that could

1075
00:49:47,342 --> 00:49:50,661
Speaker 3: ever happen in that because you're just like a god.

1076
00:49:50,781 --> 00:49:53,502
Speaker 5: Just came down from like Brad Pitt just being.

1077
00:49:53,302 --> 00:49:56,142
Speaker 2: Like this schlubby walking under the pit lane with his

1078
00:49:56,261 --> 00:49:58,422
Speaker 2: jeans on, and we're all watching him walk for like

1079
00:49:58,781 --> 00:50:00,661
Speaker 2: that whole five minutes of watching him walk could have

1080
00:50:00,661 --> 00:50:02,421
Speaker 2: been Simone Ashley's not That.

1081
00:50:02,462 --> 00:50:03,542
Speaker 5: Was my favorite part.

1082
00:50:03,942 --> 00:50:06,542
Speaker 4: Oh my god, did you enjoy it? Would you recommend it?

1083
00:50:06,982 --> 00:50:11,342
Speaker 2: What I found really funny about it was the opening weekend,

1084
00:50:11,382 --> 00:50:13,622
Speaker 2: which was like its biggest weekend. Everyone went to watch

1085
00:50:13,622 --> 00:50:16,102
Speaker 2: it the first weekend and came out. The actual F

1086
00:50:16,181 --> 00:50:18,622
Speaker 2: one race that happened the weekend after, I think it

1087
00:50:18,661 --> 00:50:21,862
Speaker 2: was in silver Stone was the funniest race to watch.

1088
00:50:21,982 --> 00:50:24,261
Speaker 2: If that movie got you into F one, it was

1089
00:50:24,382 --> 00:50:26,022
Speaker 2: one of the only races where I think there was

1090
00:50:26,022 --> 00:50:29,261
Speaker 2: like a million penalties. Everyone was spinning out like people

1091
00:50:29,261 --> 00:50:31,222
Speaker 2: who started at eighteen came first.

1092
00:50:31,261 --> 00:50:32,781
Speaker 5: It was just a really funny race.

1093
00:50:32,902 --> 00:50:34,582
Speaker 4: Yes, which is kind of what that movie is about.

1094
00:50:35,302 --> 00:50:37,821
Speaker 4: Is about F one is.

1095
00:50:37,781 --> 00:50:40,861
Speaker 5: Like Brad Pitt out louders before we go.

1096
00:50:41,382 --> 00:50:42,942
Speaker 3: I'm still getting my head around the fact that's the

1097
00:50:42,942 --> 00:50:45,341
Speaker 3: biggest ever Brad Pitt grossing movie. What about Fight Club?

1098
00:50:45,622 --> 00:50:50,022
Speaker 3: What about Benjamin I'm not surprised. What about World War Z?

1099
00:50:50,261 --> 00:50:51,102
Speaker 4: That was Second.

1100
00:50:51,342 --> 00:50:53,782
Speaker 5: That's when I got Second.

1101
00:50:53,862 --> 00:50:55,542
Speaker 3: That's when I got to be in the room with him.

1102
00:50:55,582 --> 00:50:56,781
Speaker 3: I went to the premiere of that.

1103
00:50:56,902 --> 00:51:01,781
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, Jennifer Andison's birthday exactly.

1104
00:51:02,181 --> 00:51:04,981
Speaker 3: I also know Angelina Jolies, but like there's so many

1105
00:51:04,982 --> 00:51:07,741
Speaker 3: degrees about he doesn't I bet you don't remember their birthdays.

1106
00:51:07,942 --> 00:51:09,941
Speaker 5: Anyway, that's a conversation for an the time.

1107
00:51:10,542 --> 00:51:13,742
Speaker 3: Anyway, out Louders, Before we go, we have some very

1108
00:51:13,822 --> 00:51:17,502
Speaker 3: exciting news for any of you who loved Parenting Out Loud.

1109
00:51:18,022 --> 00:51:22,181
Speaker 4: Our sister podcast is coming back, and we wanted to

1110
00:51:22,181 --> 00:51:25,622
Speaker 4: give you a little bit of a clue about who

1111
00:51:25,822 --> 00:51:28,622
Speaker 4: one of the new hosts is because it might be familiar.

1112
00:51:28,661 --> 00:51:30,701
Speaker 4: If you're a long time out Louder, you might go, well,

1113
00:51:30,741 --> 00:51:32,301
Speaker 4: I think I recognize that voice.

1114
00:51:32,502 --> 00:51:37,422
Speaker 5: Ah, I would recognize that.

1115
00:51:37,862 --> 00:51:40,701
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, some original out Louders are going to be

1116
00:51:40,781 --> 00:51:43,942
Speaker 4: jumping up and down because that is the voice of

1117
00:51:44,022 --> 00:51:49,221
Speaker 4: the original Mama meare out Loud host Monique Bowlie. Right,

1118
00:51:49,462 --> 00:51:51,982
Speaker 4: we love Monique Bolyi. She's part of the DNA of

1119
00:51:52,102 --> 00:51:52,501
Speaker 4: this show.

1120
00:51:52,741 --> 00:51:54,942
Speaker 5: Of the law, still a good friend of all of ours.

1121
00:51:55,142 --> 00:51:57,582
Speaker 4: And here is a message from Mons.

1122
00:51:58,022 --> 00:52:02,221
Speaker 9: Hello out louders, It's Mons. Remember me. I went away

1123
00:52:02,302 --> 00:52:04,502
Speaker 9: for a long time. Now I'm back again, like a

1124
00:52:04,582 --> 00:52:08,102
Speaker 9: cockroach that you can't get rid of. I'm so excited

1125
00:52:08,102 --> 00:52:10,221
Speaker 9: because I'm going to be back in your ears tomorrow.

1126
00:52:10,502 --> 00:52:14,221
Speaker 9: On Parenting out Loud. It's all the things you love

1127
00:52:14,342 --> 00:52:17,741
Speaker 9: about out loud, culture, trends, explainers, a little bit of

1128
00:52:17,781 --> 00:52:21,542
Speaker 9: shit talking just about the biggest, most intense job in

1129
00:52:21,582 --> 00:52:24,502
Speaker 9: the world, parenting so exciting.

1130
00:52:24,582 --> 00:52:26,742
Speaker 3: Mon's is going to be doing it with Amelia.

1131
00:52:26,822 --> 00:52:29,302
Speaker 4: I feel like we are casting back to light seven

1132
00:52:29,382 --> 00:52:31,661
Speaker 4: years ago when it was a simpler time. But I

1133
00:52:31,701 --> 00:52:34,261
Speaker 4: feel like it's just I have not heard Mons's voice

1134
00:52:34,302 --> 00:52:36,941
Speaker 4: like that in such a long time. It is going

1135
00:52:36,982 --> 00:52:40,661
Speaker 4: to be the most fun Parenting out Loud hosted by

1136
00:52:40,741 --> 00:52:43,982
Speaker 4: Monique Bowley, Amelia Lester, and Stacy Hicks. Can I tell

1137
00:52:43,982 --> 00:52:45,982
Speaker 4: you something funny about Stacy? But I haven't told Stacy yet?

1138
00:52:46,022 --> 00:52:48,302
Speaker 2: Oh yes, please, because she was my old manager.

1139
00:52:48,422 --> 00:52:48,622
Speaker 9: Sir.

1140
00:52:48,822 --> 00:52:52,181
Speaker 4: Well, I'm watching my Amy Bradley is Missing documentary and

1141
00:52:52,221 --> 00:52:54,782
Speaker 4: they pop up an article from news dot com written

1142
00:52:54,822 --> 00:52:59,781
Speaker 4: by one Stacy Hick on the net Flix sty I

1143
00:52:59,822 --> 00:53:02,742
Speaker 4: haven't even told he yet, but yes, very exciting. Anyway,

1144
00:53:02,781 --> 00:53:06,022
Speaker 4: that Stacy Hicks is on Parenting out Loud, make sure

1145
00:53:06,062 --> 00:53:08,102
Speaker 4: you head to the Parenting out Loud podcast feed. You

1146
00:53:08,142 --> 00:53:09,901
Speaker 4: have to go there, you have to follow it. There

1147
00:53:09,942 --> 00:53:12,221
Speaker 4: will be a link in our show notes and subscribe

1148
00:53:12,221 --> 00:53:14,221
Speaker 4: and follow so you never miss an episode.

1149
00:53:14,342 --> 00:53:16,821
Speaker 3: But if you keep listening, you are about to hear

1150
00:53:16,902 --> 00:53:19,022
Speaker 3: a sneak peek. We are putting a little bit of

1151
00:53:19,102 --> 00:53:21,822
Speaker 3: the first episode of the new look Parenting out Loud

1152
00:53:21,862 --> 00:53:25,142
Speaker 3: at the end of this episode, so don't press stop.

1153
00:53:25,582 --> 00:53:27,542
Speaker 3: That is all we have time for today, though, friends.

1154
00:53:27,582 --> 00:53:29,502
Speaker 3: A massive thank you to all of you out louders

1155
00:53:29,542 --> 00:53:30,142
Speaker 3: for being.

1156
00:53:29,942 --> 00:53:30,701
Speaker 5: With us all week.

1157
00:53:30,741 --> 00:53:32,502
Speaker 3: We're going to be back in your ears on Monday.

1158
00:53:32,862 --> 00:53:34,142
Speaker 3: Jesse and them read us out.

1159
00:53:34,502 --> 00:53:37,422
Speaker 4: A big thank you to our team group executive producer

1160
00:53:37,622 --> 00:53:41,422
Speaker 4: Ruth Devine, executive producers Emmeline Gazillas and Sasha Tanic.

1161
00:53:41,661 --> 00:53:44,742
Speaker 2: Our senior auto producer is Leah Porge's, our video producer

1162
00:53:44,781 --> 00:53:47,502
Speaker 2: is Josh Green, and our junior content producers are Tessa

1163
00:53:47,582 --> 00:53:48,102
Speaker 2: and Coco.

1164
00:53:48,542 --> 00:53:50,542
Speaker 4: Bye Bye.

1165
00:53:51,902 --> 00:53:54,582
Speaker 8: I'm really curious if you think that this idea that

1166
00:53:54,701 --> 00:53:57,542
Speaker 8: the over therapization and that is a word I just

1167
00:53:57,622 --> 00:54:00,901
Speaker 8: made up. The over therapization of our culture is in

1168
00:54:00,982 --> 00:54:03,742
Speaker 8: part leading to this reluctance to have kids.

1169
00:54:03,741 --> 00:54:06,582
Speaker 9: Interesting theory. It's not the only thing. I mean, there's

1170
00:54:06,622 --> 00:54:11,062
Speaker 9: cost of living, there's work life balance, theres access to childcare,

1171
00:54:11,102 --> 00:54:14,582
Speaker 9: there's all of these other factors, mainly crushing cost of

1172
00:54:14,622 --> 00:54:17,661
Speaker 9: living and housing and job in security. But what an

1173
00:54:17,701 --> 00:54:21,502
Speaker 9: interesting theory that takes it beyond that into actually therapy culture.

1174
00:54:22,062 --> 00:54:25,062
Speaker 9: I think therapy culture has has a lot to answer for.

1175
00:54:25,102 --> 00:54:28,542
Speaker 9: It has been great in so many ways. Opening up

1176
00:54:28,582 --> 00:54:30,821
Speaker 9: discussions about mental health is always going to be a

1177
00:54:30,862 --> 00:54:34,422
Speaker 9: good thing, but it's not without its downsides, and I

1178
00:54:34,502 --> 00:54:36,301
Speaker 9: want to talk about I just want to put on

1179
00:54:36,382 --> 00:54:40,582
Speaker 9: the table the idea about friction in relationships for a minute.

1180
00:54:40,701 --> 00:54:44,181
Speaker 9: So I follow this culture analyst, I guess, and he

1181
00:54:44,342 --> 00:54:47,741
Speaker 9: was talking recently about how life is very frictionless for

1182
00:54:47,822 --> 00:54:50,102
Speaker 9: us now that tech companies have made all these apps

1183
00:54:50,142 --> 00:54:53,942
Speaker 9: so that we don't have to experience much discomfort anymore,

1184
00:54:54,382 --> 00:54:57,181
Speaker 9: so that when we do experience it, it feels very

1185
00:54:57,302 --> 00:55:00,622
Speaker 9: jarring to us and we're not resilient enough to handle it.

1186
00:55:00,781 --> 00:55:04,341
Speaker 9: So there is this stress response I guess where people

1187
00:55:04,382 --> 00:55:08,542
Speaker 9: will just flee an uncomfortable situation. Now, that is to say,

1188
00:55:08,982 --> 00:55:12,701
Speaker 9: a strang is obviously important for so many, like there

1189
00:55:12,701 --> 00:55:16,142
Speaker 9: would be abuse and toxic relationships and that's fine, But

1190
00:55:16,261 --> 00:55:18,662
Speaker 9: what you're talking about now merely is like this middle

1191
00:55:18,701 --> 00:55:21,821
Speaker 9: ground where people just feel uncomfortable about a relationship and

1192
00:55:21,862 --> 00:55:25,261
Speaker 9: so will estrange themselves from their parents. And I think

1193
00:55:26,181 --> 00:55:29,982
Speaker 9: we're very quick to remove friction now from our lives

1194
00:55:30,062 --> 00:55:32,382
Speaker 9: or not be able to sit with it. So is

1195
00:55:32,542 --> 00:55:36,542
Speaker 9: therapy culture making all of our relationships feel impossible to

1196
00:55:36,622 --> 00:55:38,622
Speaker 9: maintain because I think also.

1197
00:55:38,542 --> 00:55:41,262
Speaker 8: When you because it's holding us two impossible standards.

1198
00:55:40,822 --> 00:55:44,422
Speaker 9: Completely and it's bleeding into friendships. So once upon a

1199
00:55:44,462 --> 00:55:45,741
Speaker 9: time you might have had a friend that was a

1200
00:55:45,741 --> 00:55:48,382
Speaker 9: bit flaky and you'd roll your eyes and you'd be like, oh,

1201
00:55:48,422 --> 00:55:50,502
Speaker 9: come on, get it together. But now you say, no,

1202
00:55:50,902 --> 00:55:52,942
Speaker 9: these are my boundaries and you're toxic and I'm cutting

1203
00:55:52,982 --> 00:55:55,461
Speaker 9: you out of my life. And like in work culture too,

1204
00:55:55,582 --> 00:55:58,341
Speaker 9: I was a manager before I sat behind this microphone,

1205
00:55:58,502 --> 00:56:01,542
Speaker 9: and there's certainly as a manager now you have to

1206
00:56:01,622 --> 00:56:05,022
Speaker 9: have such a responsibility to be emotionally literate, Like there's

1207
00:56:05,102 --> 00:56:08,781
Speaker 9: lots of healing and affirming and trauma proofing that you

1208
00:56:08,822 --> 00:56:12,062
Speaker 9: have to do in the work, so is therapy culture.

1209
00:56:12,261 --> 00:56:16,262
Speaker 9: As you said Emelily, I'm making our relationships hard to maintain.

1210
00:56:16,382 --> 00:56:20,422
Speaker 8: And also just making it feel like parenting is an

1211
00:56:20,502 --> 00:56:24,221
Speaker 8: impossible task, like making people feel like, well, I could

1212
00:56:24,221 --> 00:56:27,582
Speaker 8: never have children because I can never be the perfect

1213
00:56:27,622 --> 00:56:28,661
Speaker 8: parent that i'd want to be.

1214
00:56:28,781 --> 00:56:31,221
Speaker 1: But I think that's just the volume of information there

1215
00:56:31,302 --> 00:56:33,261
Speaker 1: is now. Like I know, when I had my daughter

1216
00:56:33,302 --> 00:56:35,142
Speaker 1: and was struggling in the newborn days, I had this

1217
00:56:35,181 --> 00:56:37,981
Speaker 1: conversation with my mum where she was like, well, it's

1218
00:56:38,022 --> 00:56:39,861
Speaker 1: just that you've got too many answers. Now, you've got

1219
00:56:39,862 --> 00:56:41,582
Speaker 1: too many options. She was like, when I did it,

1220
00:56:41,862 --> 00:56:43,382
Speaker 1: I just had to figure it out. And that was

1221
00:56:43,462 --> 00:56:45,741
Speaker 1: kind of just her kind way of being like, can

1222
00:56:45,781 --> 00:56:47,901
Speaker 1: you stop reading about wake windows and just put your

1223
00:56:47,902 --> 00:56:49,861
Speaker 1: baby to sleep when they seem tired? Like you are

1224
00:56:49,942 --> 00:56:53,741
Speaker 1: making this so hard for yourself. And I think I

1225
00:56:53,741 --> 00:56:56,221
Speaker 1: had never even really thought about how I was parented

1226
00:56:56,701 --> 00:56:59,221
Speaker 1: until I became a parent and started getting all these

1227
00:56:59,261 --> 00:57:01,542
Speaker 1: TikTok videos that you speak of, Like I get them

1228
00:57:01,542 --> 00:57:04,381
Speaker 1: come up in my algorithm all the time, saying are

1229
00:57:04,422 --> 00:57:07,181
Speaker 1: you a chronic people pleaser who can sense the you know,

1230
00:57:07,221 --> 00:57:10,102
Speaker 1: the atmosphere change when people's moods change room, and I

1231
00:57:10,142 --> 00:57:12,181
Speaker 1: was like, yeah, I can, but I don't think that's

1232
00:57:12,221 --> 00:57:14,941
Speaker 1: my parent's fault. I think that's just my personality type.

1233
00:57:15,062 --> 00:57:17,742
Speaker 1: Like I think I'm just conscious of wanting everyone to

1234
00:57:17,742 --> 00:57:19,782
Speaker 1: be having a nice time. That's not something that they

1235
00:57:19,902 --> 00:57:20,982
Speaker 1: necessarily did wrong.

1236
00:57:21,182 --> 00:57:22,782
Speaker 9: Stacy, have you had therapy before?

1237
00:57:23,022 --> 00:57:26,182
Speaker 1: I only did after having my daughter, so very short

1238
00:57:26,262 --> 00:57:27,782
Speaker 1: amount of sessions after having.

1239
00:57:27,582 --> 00:57:29,822
Speaker 9: Do you remember, like what one of the first questions

1240
00:57:29,822 --> 00:57:30,582
Speaker 9: I asked you was?

1241
00:57:31,022 --> 00:57:33,342
Speaker 1: It was about my parents. It was all about the

1242
00:57:33,422 --> 00:57:36,822
Speaker 1: dynamic of my parents. And almost withholding from me, Ah,

1243
00:57:36,862 --> 00:57:39,022
Speaker 1: I've sussed this and we're going to get to why

1244
00:57:39,222 --> 00:57:40,582
Speaker 1: you're struggling with this now.

1245
00:57:40,862 --> 00:57:42,862
Speaker 9: Yeah, I hear that. Like one of the first questions

1246
00:57:42,862 --> 00:57:44,901
Speaker 9: you'll get asked in therapy if you can afford it

1247
00:57:44,942 --> 00:57:48,822
Speaker 9: to go and have it, is tell me about your childhood. Yeah,

1248
00:57:48,822 --> 00:57:52,622
Speaker 9: tell me about how you were parented. And so I

1249
00:57:52,702 --> 00:57:55,382
Speaker 9: don't think this is new. We are not the first

1250
00:57:55,422 --> 00:57:59,742
Speaker 9: generation to agonize about having kids or to blame parents

1251
00:57:59,902 --> 00:58:03,222
Speaker 9: for any psychological wobble like I think our parents were. Also,

1252
00:58:03,262 --> 00:58:05,342
Speaker 9: they probably didn't have the language or the words around it,

1253
00:58:05,462 --> 00:58:07,022
Speaker 9: but parents have them too.

1254
00:58:07,342 --> 00:58:09,421
Speaker 4: So fertility rates are at an all time low.

1255
00:58:09,782 --> 00:58:13,102
Speaker 8: So millennials are on track to be the generation with

1256
00:58:13,382 --> 00:58:17,342
Speaker 8: the least children in recorded history. And one point that's

1257
00:58:17,382 --> 00:58:19,822
Speaker 8: made in this article is that when you have children,

1258
00:58:20,262 --> 00:58:23,382
Speaker 8: you suddenly forgive your parents for all their perceived shortcomings.

1259
00:58:23,382 --> 00:58:25,822
Speaker 8: So you're like, oh, yeah, this is really hard. Yeah

1260
00:58:25,862 --> 00:58:28,381
Speaker 8: that's true, and I'm just struggling to do. I find

1261
00:58:28,382 --> 00:58:30,982
Speaker 8: myself saying to my children a line that I heard

1262
00:58:31,022 --> 00:58:33,822
Speaker 8: throughte my childhood, which is, I'm doing the very best

1263
00:58:33,862 --> 00:58:35,901
Speaker 8: I can, and why don't you appreciate the work I'm

1264
00:58:35,942 --> 00:58:37,982
Speaker 8: doing for you? And all of these lines are coming

1265
00:58:38,022 --> 00:58:40,142
Speaker 8: out of me because now I see that they're in

1266
00:58:40,182 --> 00:58:43,381
Speaker 8: fact true. I'm doing the best I can. Why can't

1267
00:58:43,422 --> 00:58:46,062
Speaker 8: you appreciate all the work I'm doing for you? When

1268
00:58:46,102 --> 00:58:49,022
Speaker 8: you have children, you realize that that's true. But if

1269
00:58:49,102 --> 00:58:51,662
Speaker 8: you don't have children, you don't realize that's true. And

1270
00:58:51,742 --> 00:58:53,982
Speaker 8: I wonder if there's a chicken and egg element here,

1271
00:58:54,062 --> 00:58:56,702
Speaker 8: is that what's contributing to these really high rates of

1272
00:58:56,782 --> 00:59:00,542
Speaker 8: family estrangement too, because people are not having that experience

1273
00:59:00,582 --> 00:59:03,182
Speaker 8: of oh wait, my parents are just human just like

1274
00:59:03,262 --> 00:59:03,901
Speaker 8: everyone else.

1275
00:59:03,982 --> 00:59:06,942
Speaker 1: Another reason I think that therapy could be contributing to

1276
00:59:06,982 --> 00:59:09,262
Speaker 1: more people choosing to be child free is that there

1277
00:59:09,302 --> 00:59:12,622
Speaker 1: is much more language now around our partners and the

1278
00:59:12,622 --> 00:59:15,062
Speaker 1: bad behaviors they might have. So you might be able

1279
00:59:15,062 --> 00:59:17,462
Speaker 1: to now recognize when someone is a narcissist, or when

1280
00:59:17,502 --> 00:59:19,862
Speaker 1: someone is gaslighting you, or when someone's just a bit

1281
00:59:19,862 --> 00:59:22,222
Speaker 1: of a douche, and you might choose not to procreate

1282
00:59:22,262 --> 00:59:23,262
Speaker 1: with them for that reason.

1283
00:59:23,582 --> 00:59:25,901
Speaker 9: I don't think you necessarily need to have had a child, though,

1284
00:59:25,942 --> 00:59:29,302
Speaker 9: to come to that understanding. So I've had seven years

1285
00:59:29,342 --> 00:59:31,942
Speaker 9: of therapy. I've spent fortune on it. Or save you

1286
00:59:31,982 --> 00:59:33,022
Speaker 9: the time and the money and.

1287
00:59:34,782 --> 00:59:35,142
Speaker 5: Therapy.

1288
00:59:35,382 --> 00:59:37,901
Speaker 9: One of the best things that my therapist ever said

1289
00:59:37,902 --> 00:59:41,582
Speaker 9: to me was what if they were just doing the

1290
00:59:41,622 --> 00:59:45,342
Speaker 9: best they could with the tools they had. Parenting out

1291
00:59:45,382 --> 00:59:48,102
Speaker 9: loud listen weekly wherever you get your podcasts.