WEBVTT - Julie Goodwin Has Changed 0:00:10.287 --> 0:00:14.927 You're listening to Amma Mia podcast. Mamma Mere acknowledges the 0:00:14.927 --> 0:00:17.687 traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast is 0:00:17.727 --> 0:00:23.487 recorded on. I don't know about you, but I've changed. 0:00:24.047 --> 0:00:27.287 It's been eighteen months since we've been having these little talks, 0:00:27.767 --> 0:00:30.127 you know, the ones about the stuff we're not meant 0:00:30.127 --> 0:00:34.967 to discuss, about our messy insides and our unruly outsides, 0:00:35.407 --> 0:00:38.447 about how our bodies are changing as quickly as our minds, 0:00:38.807 --> 0:00:41.127 and about how so many things about us at this 0:00:41.247 --> 0:00:44.607 grown up point in our lives don't seem to fit anymore. 0:00:45.567 --> 0:00:48.767 Some things literally don't fit, because our body has been 0:00:48.807 --> 0:00:52.487 reallocating itself all over the place without our permission, and 0:00:52.567 --> 0:00:56.247 some of it doesn't fit figuratively because some stuff that 0:00:56.287 --> 0:00:59.287 we've always done and said and thought that we thought, 0:00:59.767 --> 0:01:02.247 and some of the people we've always loved and cared for, 0:01:02.647 --> 0:01:06.687 and some of the jobs and tasks and unasked for responsibilities, 0:01:07.127 --> 0:01:11.367 well we've reprioritized the lit that some of it's been promoted, 0:01:11.767 --> 0:01:14.207 some of it's been fired, and some of it's been 0:01:14.207 --> 0:01:16.727 reallocated to others to take care of for a while 0:01:16.807 --> 0:01:21.327 because it's just not the right fit anymore. Look, sometimes 0:01:21.367 --> 0:01:23.927 even our face doesn't seem to fit anymore, not with 0:01:24.007 --> 0:01:26.927 the version of ourselves we're so used to seeing reflected 0:01:27.007 --> 0:01:30.767 back at us, And despite all the slathering serums, we're 0:01:30.767 --> 0:01:34.127 not entirely sure who she is, that person looking back 0:01:34.167 --> 0:01:37.127 at us. And then even she doesn't seem to fit anymore, 0:01:37.167 --> 0:01:40.807 because the world is grappling with its very fixed idea 0:01:40.847 --> 0:01:44.607 about what midlife women look like, act like, dress like, 0:01:44.887 --> 0:01:49.367 talk like, care like, and we're not always it, and 0:01:49.407 --> 0:01:52.567 we haven't got time for a face consensus to be reached. 0:01:52.927 --> 0:01:55.967 We're too busy with the big stuff. The reason I 0:01:56.007 --> 0:01:58.807 wanted to start having these conversations in the first place 0:01:59.007 --> 0:02:01.767 was because I think, deep down we know the truth 0:02:01.847 --> 0:02:06.247 about that misfit, that itch, the tension in all this change. 0:02:06.687 --> 0:02:09.527 We know that despite the pitying tilted heads and the 0:02:10.007 --> 0:02:12.927 getting served last at the bar and the oh, you 0:02:12.967 --> 0:02:16.207 look good for your age, we're not only still us, 0:02:16.367 --> 0:02:20.367 but an evolved version, a wiser, street, smarter, stronger version. 0:02:20.647 --> 0:02:23.767 Because we've been through all kinds of nonsense, your nonsense, 0:02:23.927 --> 0:02:28.567 our own nonsense, and here we still are, refusing to disappear, 0:02:29.167 --> 0:02:33.847 refusing to apologize, refusing to play a bit part in 0:02:33.887 --> 0:02:37.167 our own lives. So yeah, we've changed me and you. 0:02:37.807 --> 0:02:41.007 We're grown up women sick of being handed the boring, sad, 0:02:41.087 --> 0:02:45.447 supporting roles, and every one of these conversations has helped 0:02:45.447 --> 0:02:49.127 me with that, and hopefully you too helped us to 0:02:49.167 --> 0:02:52.327 become a little bit more bullshit repellent and a bit 0:02:52.367 --> 0:02:59.447 more the shit. Hello. I am Holly Wainwright and I 0:02:59.647 --> 0:03:04.647 am mid midlife, mid family, mid metamorphois. Today is a 0:03:04.687 --> 0:03:08.767 big mid moment. I've invited our first ever guest back 0:03:08.767 --> 0:03:11.727 onto the show to help us wrap up our final 0:03:11.847 --> 0:03:13.327 season for twenty twenty five. 0:03:14.247 --> 0:03:15.047 A little over. 0:03:14.887 --> 0:03:18.127 Eighteen months ago, Julie Goodwin trusted me enough to sit 0:03:18.247 --> 0:03:22.967 down for the first major conversation about her extremely vulnerable memoir. 0:03:23.367 --> 0:03:26.207 It was called Your Time Starts Now, still is called 0:03:26.287 --> 0:03:29.407 Your Time Starts Now, and to kick off this new podcast, 0:03:29.567 --> 0:03:32.167 Mid Conversations for gen X Women who are anything but 0:03:32.847 --> 0:03:36.927 I asked Julie to talk about it honestly. In that interview, 0:03:37.167 --> 0:03:39.767 she talked about the mental health crisis that almost ended 0:03:39.767 --> 0:03:43.127 her life, the changes she'd made since, and the people 0:03:43.127 --> 0:03:45.847 who got her through it all. The thing is that 0:03:45.887 --> 0:03:48.767 conversation about being the midlife woman who seems to have 0:03:48.807 --> 0:03:50.967 it all together, Who's keeping all the plates in the 0:03:51.007 --> 0:03:54.127 air and everyone's life running while inside everything is catching 0:03:54.207 --> 0:03:57.927 up with you in a big, crashing wave. Really resonated. 0:03:58.487 --> 0:04:00.767 It set the tone for the honest conversations we've been 0:04:00.767 --> 0:04:04.007 having here since, and it started something that's been happening 0:04:04.007 --> 0:04:06.647 to me more and more, which is people coming up 0:04:06.687 --> 0:04:09.007 to me and telling me how much mid makes them 0:04:09.047 --> 0:04:12.767 feel less alone, less crazy, and very much like Julie 0:04:12.807 --> 0:04:16.687 Goodwin in that first conversation. Now, Julie's back to help 0:04:16.767 --> 0:04:19.327 us wrap this season of Mido, and on the theme 0:04:19.487 --> 0:04:22.527 of change. A lot has changed for her in the 0:04:22.607 --> 0:04:25.247 last year and a half since we last spoke. She's 0:04:25.287 --> 0:04:28.647 made some massive decisions about her life, her work, her health, 0:04:29.087 --> 0:04:31.327 her family, and we talk about all of that in 0:04:31.327 --> 0:04:34.567 this conversation. And yes, we talk about how the changes 0:04:34.607 --> 0:04:38.407 we decide to make can sometimes destabilize the people around us, 0:04:39.007 --> 0:04:41.527 and perhaps as a woman in the public eye, that 0:04:41.687 --> 0:04:45.327 is never truer than if you dare to change your body. 0:04:46.007 --> 0:04:48.167 We talk about that too, and you're going to hear 0:04:48.207 --> 0:04:51.727 her passion for that subject in her voice. Please sit 0:04:51.807 --> 0:04:54.607 down with Julia and I for the last time in 0:04:54.767 --> 0:05:05.927 mid season seven and share this exceptionally honest conversation about change. Julie, 0:05:05.967 --> 0:05:08.367 I spoke to you for our first episode of Mid. 0:05:08.647 --> 0:05:10.807 Yeah, I know, I can't believe that. That's what. 0:05:11.687 --> 0:05:16.127 Yeah, it's eighteen months ago and this show has been 0:05:16.207 --> 0:05:20.727 such a delightful chapter for me and so many women 0:05:20.847 --> 0:05:25.047 love that episode. So I need to thank you for 0:05:25.127 --> 0:05:27.967 being our first episode because I think it just set 0:05:28.007 --> 0:05:33.327 the tone of honesty, vulnerability, learning, all that stuff that 0:05:33.487 --> 0:05:36.567 just I just really appreciate it. So thank you so much. 0:05:36.607 --> 0:05:41.687 Well, that's you know, that's where we're at, isn't it. 0:05:41.807 --> 0:05:42.967 Let's just talk about it. 0:05:43.047 --> 0:05:46.007 I want the last episode to be Julie, because I 0:05:46.047 --> 0:05:51.047 want to hear how everything's been and more lessons if anything. 0:05:52.247 --> 0:05:55.167 So although we do have to mention that you might 0:05:55.207 --> 0:05:57.447 be cursed because you were the first guest on the 0:05:57.487 --> 0:06:00.767 project which finished up, and you were the last guest. 0:06:03.047 --> 0:06:05.847 So sorry, I guess I'll wait for Mastershift to finish 0:06:05.887 --> 0:06:08.487 up and then I can be the curse of mastershif. 0:06:09.327 --> 0:06:12.567 Out lasting all the medium brands. Anyway, we were just 0:06:12.607 --> 0:06:15.127 talking off Mike, but when you sat down for that 0:06:15.247 --> 0:06:18.167 episode of mid you were just at the very beginning 0:06:18.367 --> 0:06:22.087 of the press tour. For your really excellent memoir Your 0:06:22.087 --> 0:06:25.167 time starts now. Yep. If you haven't listened to that episode, 0:06:25.207 --> 0:06:27.487 I encourage everybody to go and do it. It is great, 0:06:27.527 --> 0:06:29.567 and to read the book, of course. But I remember 0:06:29.607 --> 0:06:31.007 you saying, actually, I've got a note of what you 0:06:31.007 --> 0:06:33.967 were saying to me. You were saying that even as 0:06:34.007 --> 0:06:36.287 you were packing to start this press tour, because you 0:06:36.367 --> 0:06:38.607 knew it was going to be big. The subject matter 0:06:38.607 --> 0:06:40.847 of the book was very vulnerable. You said, I was 0:06:40.887 --> 0:06:43.327 getting ready to go, and I had anxiety in my guts. 0:06:43.327 --> 0:06:45.367 And part of it was because putting this out in 0:06:45.407 --> 0:06:48.767 the world is not an easy thing to do. How 0:06:48.807 --> 0:06:49.527 did it all go? 0:06:51.407 --> 0:06:55.007 Well, it was hard, and talking about some of that 0:06:55.087 --> 0:06:59.087 stuff was hard, and some of it remains very very hard, 0:06:59.487 --> 0:07:03.127 but it was on the whole, it was really beautifully received. 0:07:03.407 --> 0:07:07.847 You know, I feel like I'm glad I did it. 0:07:08.167 --> 0:07:11.487 I wondered if I would get through that process and 0:07:11.487 --> 0:07:13.887 then think, God, that was a terrible mistake, or I 0:07:13.927 --> 0:07:16.967 wish I hadn't done that, or I've exposed my family 0:07:17.047 --> 0:07:19.567 to something that I don't think I should have exposed 0:07:19.607 --> 0:07:22.327 them to, or I've exposed myself to something I shouldn't 0:07:22.327 --> 0:07:26.527 have done. But actually the feedback that I've had and 0:07:26.767 --> 0:07:29.807 the way it's resonated with certain people has meant that 0:07:29.927 --> 0:07:32.607 I can say it was a hard thing to do. 0:07:32.687 --> 0:07:34.887 But if this is the right way to phrase it, 0:07:34.927 --> 0:07:39.967 But is there something sort of freeing about having a 0:07:39.967 --> 0:07:42.207 lot of a lot of your story out there? In 0:07:42.247 --> 0:07:45.207 a way? Because in that book you spoke very honestly 0:07:45.567 --> 0:07:50.087 about mental health, about addiction, about trauma. You also talked 0:07:50.087 --> 0:07:54.087 about what had happened to your life in very good 0:07:54.527 --> 0:07:57.767 and stressful ways since the transformative moment of Master Chef. 0:07:58.647 --> 0:08:02.127 Is there something kind of freeing about that all being 0:08:02.167 --> 0:08:02.847 out there now? 0:08:03.087 --> 0:08:06.247 The absolutely is, you know, I feel like people. 0:08:06.047 --> 0:08:07.207 Know you better in a way. 0:08:07.887 --> 0:08:11.487 Yeah. But it also so it's kind of I mean, 0:08:11.527 --> 0:08:14.407 it's an old saying, isn't the truth will set you free. 0:08:14.767 --> 0:08:18.087 I've just what, I've laid everything out there, and so 0:08:18.207 --> 0:08:21.247 come at me. You've got no weapons against me anymore. 0:08:21.647 --> 0:08:25.447 I've laid down all my shields, so there's nothing. There's 0:08:25.487 --> 0:08:29.607 nothing you can attack me with that I haven't pre counterattacked. 0:08:30.247 --> 0:08:33.247 It's all out there. So if anybody has anything to 0:08:33.327 --> 0:08:36.967 say to me that's hurtful or unpleasant, it's either the 0:08:37.007 --> 0:08:39.727 truth or it's not the truth. And if it's the truth, 0:08:39.727 --> 0:08:41.727 it's okay because I've already told the truth. And if 0:08:41.727 --> 0:08:43.247 it's not the truth, I don't have to worry about 0:08:43.247 --> 0:08:45.687 it because it's not the truth. So it's kind of 0:08:46.327 --> 0:08:50.047 in its ways, it is extremely liberating because it's just 0:08:50.447 --> 0:08:52.647 there are no secrets, there's nothing for anyone to find out. 0:08:52.807 --> 0:08:55.447 Because you were saying in that interview several times, one 0:08:55.487 --> 0:08:57.487 of the things you said to me is sometimes it's 0:08:57.527 --> 0:09:00.487 hard to just put the mask on, you know, like 0:09:00.567 --> 0:09:04.127 to be everything's fine when everything isn't fine. I know 0:09:04.247 --> 0:09:07.007 lots of women listening to this, various degrees putting that 0:09:07.047 --> 0:09:09.367 mask on every day. We all are in different way 0:09:09.727 --> 0:09:10.527 and sometimes. 0:09:10.247 --> 0:09:12.287 It's appropriate to do that. You know, sometimes you've got 0:09:12.287 --> 0:09:16.687 to power through stuff, and that's an ongoing process for 0:09:16.767 --> 0:09:18.807 me and I had and I know I spoke to you, 0:09:18.847 --> 0:09:21.647 and I've written about my beautiful therapist Heather, and she's 0:09:21.687 --> 0:09:26.367 helped me to understand again because you know, when you 0:09:27.007 --> 0:09:29.527 that vulnerable in your mental health, you really seek to 0:09:30.127 --> 0:09:32.727 lessen the amount of anxiety that you're going to experience, 0:09:32.767 --> 0:09:35.967 and so you try and avoid situations where you're going 0:09:35.967 --> 0:09:38.167 to experience it. But I've come to the realization that 0:09:38.247 --> 0:09:42.167 if I if I avoid every circumstance, it's going to 0:09:42.167 --> 0:09:45.207 give me anxiety. My life is going to become very small. 0:09:46.167 --> 0:09:49.407 So what I need to do is learn to anticipate 0:09:49.727 --> 0:09:52.807 that this is a situation that might be tricky, to 0:09:53.007 --> 0:09:55.847 shore myself up for it, and also to allow recovery 0:09:55.887 --> 0:09:59.407 from it. So she calls it like playing a rugby match. 0:09:59.567 --> 0:10:00.927 She said, if you know you're going to go onto 0:10:00.927 --> 0:10:02.807 the field, you get ready for that, you psych up 0:10:02.807 --> 0:10:04.447 for it, you go onto the field. You've got to 0:10:04.487 --> 0:10:06.447 push through the pain. You've got to push through your injuries, 0:10:06.487 --> 0:10:09.887 you've got to push through everything that's coming at your opponents. 0:10:10.287 --> 0:10:13.047 And then you finish that rugby match, and you go 0:10:13.367 --> 0:10:15.647 and have your ice bath and have your diverst and 0:10:15.767 --> 0:10:17.487 eat your protein and do all the things you need 0:10:17.567 --> 0:10:20.967 to do to recover. So she said, I'll accept that 0:10:21.007 --> 0:10:23.607 you keep putting yourself in these situations as long as 0:10:23.687 --> 0:10:26.367 you promise me you will keep giving yourself the recovery time. 0:10:26.847 --> 0:10:31.087 So that's been part of my sort of learning over 0:10:31.087 --> 0:10:34.167 the past eighteen months, is that you can't just avoid 0:10:34.327 --> 0:10:38.207 stress and anxiety, but also you can't just keep masking it. 0:10:38.527 --> 0:10:41.967 You've got to allow yourself to go headfirst into it. 0:10:42.007 --> 0:10:44.167 You've got to allow yourself to recover afterwards. 0:10:44.527 --> 0:10:47.367 That's really interesting because one of the things I think 0:10:47.567 --> 0:10:50.567 we tell ourselves. And again, I know that your situation 0:10:50.767 --> 0:10:52.927 is very specific, so I don't want to make it 0:10:52.967 --> 0:10:54.887 sound like I'm trying to make it apply to everybody, 0:10:54.887 --> 0:10:57.287 but I think there are lessons in this For a 0:10:57.287 --> 0:11:00.407 lot of us. It's sometimes we're often going well when 0:11:00.527 --> 0:11:03.167 things are quiet, or you know, I'm going to make 0:11:03.207 --> 0:11:05.847 these changes to my life so that I don't have 0:11:06.087 --> 0:11:08.807 I'm not in a rush anymore, or there aren't all 0:11:08.807 --> 0:11:11.767 these people depending on me, or I'm not working so hard, 0:11:11.847 --> 0:11:14.767 or whatever it might be. But the reality for most 0:11:14.807 --> 0:11:17.887 of us is we've got to keep doing all the 0:11:17.887 --> 0:11:20.687 things we're doing to a point we can make changes. 0:11:20.767 --> 0:11:22.567 And I one of the things there are a few 0:11:22.567 --> 0:11:24.287 things you said to me in that interview that I 0:11:24.287 --> 0:11:26.647 still think about a lot, and one of them was 0:11:26.647 --> 0:11:30.367 that everything is a choice. So you know, the things 0:11:30.367 --> 0:11:32.727 that make us busier a choice. Some of them are 0:11:32.767 --> 0:11:36.247 just hard choices, but their choices. But what's really interesting 0:11:36.287 --> 0:11:38.847 about what you just said there is it's not about 0:11:39.367 --> 0:11:42.647 to protect your mental health, you have to withdraw from 0:11:42.687 --> 0:11:45.647 the things you either love or that feed your family 0:11:46.087 --> 0:11:49.767 or you know, it's just you have to approach them differently. 0:11:49.967 --> 0:11:52.727 Yeah, kind of plan for it. Yeah, it's been really 0:11:52.727 --> 0:11:57.167 helpful for me to recognize the physical symptoms of stress. 0:11:57.487 --> 0:12:00.967 And so now instead of getting into it out of 0:12:01.007 --> 0:12:03.687 control panic that you know, I'm at the beginning of 0:12:03.727 --> 0:12:05.687 the end again. I'm on that slippery slope again. I'm 0:12:05.727 --> 0:12:08.167 going to go downhill again. This is you know, this 0:12:08.207 --> 0:12:12.407 is a disaster. I can just go, oh, my hands 0:12:12.407 --> 0:12:15.287 are shaking, or I'm getting those little dots in my eyes, 0:12:15.407 --> 0:12:17.727 or I'm getting a lot of cold sails or mouth pussicers. 0:12:18.127 --> 0:12:21.847 And instead of going, oh, this is a disaster, I'm 0:12:21.847 --> 0:12:23.967 going to end up back in the hospital. I'm falling apart. 0:12:24.047 --> 0:12:26.847 My life is unmanageable. I just go a hello, hi, 0:12:26.967 --> 0:12:31.207 old friend, thank you for these warning signs and symptoms. 0:12:31.687 --> 0:12:33.327 I need to have a little look at the days 0:12:33.367 --> 0:12:36.127 ahead and see where I can fit some blocks of 0:12:36.607 --> 0:12:40.447 self care in there. And that's how I approach it, 0:12:40.487 --> 0:12:44.807 instead of catastrophizing and withdrawing from everything and you know, 0:12:44.847 --> 0:12:45.407 freaking out. 0:12:45.727 --> 0:12:48.967 I love that in the last chat. I'm I'm sorry, 0:12:48.967 --> 0:12:50.767 I'm starting se many sentences with that, but it was 0:12:51.047 --> 0:12:55.407 it lives very vividly in my head. You talked about 0:12:55.447 --> 0:12:57.687 that about there being a point in your life where 0:12:57.727 --> 0:12:59.567 you looked at your calendar and it was like color 0:12:59.607 --> 0:13:02.607 coded and there was work and there was family, and 0:13:02.647 --> 0:13:05.647 there was work, lots of work, and you were like, 0:13:05.687 --> 0:13:09.087 there's nothing in there for me. Obviously, this past year 0:13:09.127 --> 0:13:11.287 has also been very busy. I mean, you've been working 0:13:11.327 --> 0:13:12.927 a lot. We're I'm going to ask you soon about 0:13:12.927 --> 0:13:15.087 all the things you've been up to. Does that calendar 0:13:15.087 --> 0:13:17.447 look different now? Like talking about what you just were 0:13:17.687 --> 0:13:21.167 about when you know the warning signs might be. I mean, 0:13:21.207 --> 0:13:23.487 I don't know about you, but because similar to you, 0:13:23.527 --> 0:13:25.567 I live a couple of hours away from where I 0:13:25.607 --> 0:13:28.607 often work. So when I know I'm facing a big 0:13:28.687 --> 0:13:31.887 period of time away from home, I can get very 0:13:32.127 --> 0:13:35.487 in my head about it. The calendar stresses me out 0:13:35.487 --> 0:13:39.447 to what do you build in when you're feeling that 0:13:39.567 --> 0:13:42.727 shaky stuff coming, when you're feeling that anxiety rising. Instead 0:13:42.767 --> 0:13:45.287 of going as you just said, like everything is screwed, 0:13:45.367 --> 0:13:47.567 I've done it all over, what do you put in 0:13:47.607 --> 0:13:51.327 the calendar specifically like to build those buffers for yourself. 0:13:51.687 --> 0:13:54.407 Well, my mind's it's still color coded. Yeah, there's lots 0:13:54.487 --> 0:13:57.047 more colors that equal self care now, so. 0:13:57.487 --> 0:13:59.047 Happy rainbow co Yeah. 0:13:59.447 --> 0:14:03.487 All the sort of greeny bluey colors are like the 0:14:03.607 --> 0:14:07.247 me things, the calming sort of you know, whether it's 0:14:07.247 --> 0:14:11.247 exercise or art or you know, something like that bushwalk 0:14:11.327 --> 0:14:12.607 time in nature, that kind of thing. 0:14:12.887 --> 0:14:15.447 Yes, because you paid, I do. 0:14:16.327 --> 0:14:20.127 And then I've got bright yellow is family, because that's 0:14:20.167 --> 0:14:22.767 just joyful, and then out of time, and then I've 0:14:22.807 --> 0:14:25.847 got sort of the reddish and the brownie stuff is 0:14:25.927 --> 0:14:29.167 work work, and then I've got another sort of purply colors, 0:14:29.207 --> 0:14:32.967 which is charitable work. And so if things feel a 0:14:32.967 --> 0:14:35.807 bit off kilter, if I start to get those symptoms 0:14:35.807 --> 0:14:40.127 in my body, I can almost know what my calendar 0:14:40.167 --> 0:14:42.087 is going to be flooded with when I open it up. 0:14:42.447 --> 0:14:45.567 And so it's just very visual, it's very instant. And 0:14:45.727 --> 0:14:47.727 so what I've got to do is redress that balance. 0:14:47.887 --> 0:14:50.327 And sometimes it's well, I will have to sort of 0:14:50.647 --> 0:14:53.047 d pull back on some of the charity work I'm doing, 0:14:53.087 --> 0:14:55.247 and I might not say yes to a couple of 0:14:55.287 --> 0:14:58.527 those jobs that don't fill me up in more ways 0:14:58.607 --> 0:14:59.847 than one. 0:15:00.007 --> 0:15:05.807 Yes, yeah, and boundaries, right, are we getting better at boundaries? 0:15:06.607 --> 0:15:09.567 You're really working on boundaries. I think I am getting better. 0:15:09.927 --> 0:15:12.687 I think I'm just getting blunter. And I actually think 0:15:12.767 --> 0:15:15.767 that's part of the beauty of aging a little bit, 0:15:16.007 --> 0:15:20.487 is just that I no longer need everybody to like 0:15:20.647 --> 0:15:23.847 me quite so much as I used to, because what 0:15:23.927 --> 0:15:25.887 I found is that if everybody likes you, you end 0:15:25.967 --> 0:15:29.527 up being everybody's kind of doormat. So you know, if 0:15:29.567 --> 0:15:32.807 I'm a little bit prickly to approach about somethings, that's okay. Now. 0:15:33.407 --> 0:15:35.727 I still can't say no is a complete sentence like 0:15:35.847 --> 0:15:38.927 Jane Fonder tells me to. But what it is, and 0:15:38.927 --> 0:15:41.647 this is part of what's freeing about writing everything down 0:15:41.727 --> 0:15:44.567 and putting everything out there is I'll just say to people, 0:15:45.087 --> 0:15:47.447 I'm really invested in my mental health at the moment, 0:15:47.487 --> 0:15:49.327 so I'm going to build some stuff around this to 0:15:49.367 --> 0:15:52.487 make sure that that's protected, and that's my first priority. 0:15:52.687 --> 0:15:55.247 I'm really really capable of saying that because if that 0:15:55.327 --> 0:15:58.287 goes and what I know from my life experience that 0:15:58.367 --> 0:16:01.447 if that's no good, I can't be there for my granddaughter. 0:16:01.447 --> 0:16:03.247 I can't be there for my family. I can't be 0:16:03.327 --> 0:16:05.527 there for my friends. I cannot perform my work, I 0:16:05.567 --> 0:16:09.567 can't function. So that's how blunt I am, and I 0:16:09.567 --> 0:16:14.207 would just say, just be blunt, and so boundaries just 0:16:14.247 --> 0:16:17.687 become really easy and nobody takes offense to that, you know. 0:16:17.767 --> 0:16:20.887 And I've entered into a couple of big projects lightly, 0:16:21.047 --> 0:16:23.967 I've said, well, before we even start planning this out, 0:16:24.007 --> 0:16:25.887 what I need you to know is that I'm going 0:16:25.927 --> 0:16:28.167 to build in rest time. I'm going to build in 0:16:28.527 --> 0:16:32.047 all these different things, and I won't be responsible for 0:16:32.127 --> 0:16:35.127 these things because I can't manage that. So if we 0:16:35.167 --> 0:16:39.487 can work with that, within that realm, then let's go. 0:16:40.047 --> 0:16:42.927 And more often than not, it's not a problem. It's 0:16:43.887 --> 0:16:47.207 what I'm asking would not have been an issue anyway. Yeah, 0:16:47.447 --> 0:16:48.687 it's quite unbelievable. 0:16:48.767 --> 0:16:51.807 I think that's so great is that I think, as 0:16:51.847 --> 0:16:54.647 you say, we're worried about being prickly, we're worried about 0:16:54.727 --> 0:17:00.087 seeming demanding and difficult. Yep, because we've all been groomed 0:17:00.167 --> 0:17:01.807 the wrong word, but maybe it's the right word from 0:17:01.807 --> 0:17:05.927 an early age to be agreeable and passive and polite. 0:17:06.127 --> 0:17:08.327 And then people go, oh, she's a bit grumpy, but 0:17:08.687 --> 0:17:11.447 it's not really grumpy. It's just firm. 0:17:11.487 --> 0:17:17.207 It's just real, it's just real. I am a giving 0:17:17.407 --> 0:17:20.127 human being and I will give, but I've learned that 0:17:20.247 --> 0:17:24.047 I cannot give from a vessel that is smashed into 0:17:24.047 --> 0:17:27.287 a million pieces on the floor. And I'm i am 0:17:27.407 --> 0:17:35.247 unwilling to be smashed, especially for external things for strangers. Essentially. 0:17:35.447 --> 0:17:38.447 I got some good advice about boundaries recently, because my 0:17:38.567 --> 0:17:40.847 word of the year this year was not like no, 0:17:42.007 --> 0:17:43.647 not a hard no, because I wanted it to still 0:17:43.647 --> 0:17:45.607 be a bit friendly. It was like, like, if it's 0:17:45.607 --> 0:17:48.407 not serving this, this, this, this, and to be honest, 0:17:48.407 --> 0:17:50.207 I've been a bit rubbish at it. I still have 0:17:50.327 --> 0:17:53.767 over committed at times. And Amantha and Burg, a woman 0:17:53.807 --> 0:17:55.447 i've been twoed a few times, is really great on 0:17:55.567 --> 0:17:59.127 sort of productivity and work stuff. She said, think about yes, 0:17:59.367 --> 0:18:02.047 but as an answer instead of it always being a no, 0:18:02.287 --> 0:18:05.127 is like well, and actually it's what you were just saying. 0:18:05.247 --> 0:18:07.167 It's kind of like, well, yes, I can do that, 0:18:07.327 --> 0:18:08.887 but I can only do it if we can do 0:18:08.927 --> 0:18:11.167 it at this state that works for me, at this time, 0:18:11.207 --> 0:18:13.047 that works for me. Da Da Dada's which is pretty 0:18:13.127 --> 0:18:15.767 much what you're saying, and she was saying, so think 0:18:16.127 --> 0:18:18.367 if no is still a little bit out of reach. 0:18:18.967 --> 0:18:22.247 She was like, yes, but is good because it gives 0:18:22.367 --> 0:18:25.927 It's like, yes, but boundary. Yeah, So that's what I 0:18:25.967 --> 0:18:27.767 think is it's quite helpful. 0:18:27.927 --> 0:18:30.087 Yeah, Or even switch it up a little bit and 0:18:30.127 --> 0:18:33.687 go here are some boundaries. Do you still want me? Yes? 0:18:33.807 --> 0:18:39.487 So it's almost it's not, but it's let's just back 0:18:39.527 --> 0:18:42.647 the truck up a little and explore before I interview 0:18:42.767 --> 0:18:43.007 you this. 0:18:43.247 --> 0:18:48.247 Yeah. After the break, Julie and I talk about what's 0:18:48.327 --> 0:18:50.847 changed for her since I interviewed her on our first 0:18:50.887 --> 0:18:57.687 episode of mid almost eighteen months ago. How are you 0:18:57.767 --> 0:19:02.247 feeling generally since we last spokes? Has a lot changed? 0:19:02.647 --> 0:19:06.727 Yeah, Look, I'm getting stronger as the days go by, 0:19:07.047 --> 0:19:11.287 as the months go by, I feel more, are comfortable 0:19:11.327 --> 0:19:14.247 and confident that I'm on a good path and that 0:19:14.287 --> 0:19:17.767 I've found a good formula. I'm still working on the formula, 0:19:17.927 --> 0:19:19.767 like all that laundry list of things I've got to 0:19:19.767 --> 0:19:23.807 do to stay well. As life changes and evolves, and 0:19:23.847 --> 0:19:27.807 circumstances change and evolve, I've got to shift all the 0:19:27.847 --> 0:19:31.567 time to sort of accommodate the ebbs and flows of life. 0:19:31.687 --> 0:19:35.007 But I'm better at it now. Doesn't mean to say 0:19:35.007 --> 0:19:39.767 I don't have days that are catastrophic, but I'm much 0:19:39.807 --> 0:19:42.247 better at managing them now. I'm doing it from a 0:19:42.327 --> 0:19:46.207 much more integrated sort of place than I was, and 0:19:46.247 --> 0:19:49.007 that's even in the past eighteen months, and so I'm 0:19:49.047 --> 0:19:52.967 kind of excited for the future. My hobby and I've 0:19:53.007 --> 0:19:56.847 made some really big decisions in the past few months 0:19:56.847 --> 0:20:01.807 and we are downsizing our home. I am shedding all 0:20:01.847 --> 0:20:04.847 of my stuff and we're moving into a smaller house. 0:20:05.007 --> 0:20:06.847 I saw that you were selling some of the things 0:20:06.887 --> 0:20:08.047 from your business. 0:20:07.687 --> 0:20:11.327 Too, and I'm actually releasing those premises three and a 0:20:11.367 --> 0:20:14.847 half years after I closed my business, and I am 0:20:15.207 --> 0:20:19.887 only just able to say it is time to let 0:20:19.927 --> 0:20:20.127 it go. 0:20:20.727 --> 0:20:25.247 And is that that you're only just mentally prepared to 0:20:25.287 --> 0:20:27.927 do that because you spoke about closing your business when 0:20:27.927 --> 0:20:29.927 we talk. When we spoke last time, you said that 0:20:30.687 --> 0:20:32.367 you'd got to this point. And actually this was a 0:20:32.367 --> 0:20:34.967 clip that we put on social that really resonated with people, 0:20:35.007 --> 0:20:37.247 where you were saying to your therapist, I think, Heather, 0:20:37.887 --> 0:20:40.167 but I've got the business, but I've got the radio show, 0:20:40.207 --> 0:20:42.327 but I can't do it and it's going to cost 0:20:42.367 --> 0:20:44.727 all these things, and she was like, at what costs? 0:20:44.767 --> 0:20:48.207 She basically said, so you were encouraging people to realize 0:20:48.207 --> 0:20:51.327 that the world will keep turning if you need to 0:20:51.367 --> 0:20:52.047 step back. 0:20:52.287 --> 0:20:52.607 Yep. 0:20:52.847 --> 0:20:54.927 So you did step back, and you did close the business. 0:20:54.927 --> 0:20:57.167 But now you feel like it's taken you this long 0:20:57.207 --> 0:20:59.847 to be like, Okay, that really is done. 0:21:00.007 --> 0:21:05.807 Yeah. Absolutely, And I'm very, very lucky that my life 0:21:05.927 --> 0:21:10.567 partner is he never once said to pack it up, 0:21:11.567 --> 0:21:15.167 you know, maybe get out of the space and maybe 0:21:15.207 --> 0:21:18.087 let someone else have that space, or he never ever 0:21:18.167 --> 0:21:20.847 once did that. He let me come to that myself, 0:21:20.847 --> 0:21:21.887 and it took them plain. 0:21:23.687 --> 0:21:25.567 Is not because you thought you might go back or 0:21:25.567 --> 0:21:27.407 do you think it's just you were quite ready to 0:21:27.487 --> 0:21:29.327 admit that you'd really let go of it. 0:21:29.647 --> 0:21:32.527