1 00:00:11,064 --> 00:00:14,104 Speaker 1: So much you're listening to a Muma Mia podcast. 2 00:00:14,784 --> 00:00:18,664 Speaker 2: Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters 3 00:00:18,704 --> 00:00:22,064 Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on. Hello spillers, We're just 4 00:00:22,104 --> 00:00:24,384 Speaker 2: popping into your ears on a weekend to share an 5 00:00:24,424 --> 00:00:27,904 Speaker 2: interview with none other than Naomi Watts that was done 6 00:00:27,904 --> 00:00:31,904 Speaker 2: on another Mummia podcast, No Filter, with Mia Friedman. So 7 00:00:31,944 --> 00:00:34,904 Speaker 2: in this very special episode, actress Naomi Watts. I mean, 8 00:00:34,944 --> 00:00:36,864 Speaker 2: you would know all of her movie credits. She's an 9 00:00:36,864 --> 00:00:40,144 Speaker 2: Academy Award nominee. She's been on our screens for decades. 10 00:00:40,504 --> 00:00:42,544 Speaker 2: In this interview, she takes a bit of a personal 11 00:00:42,624 --> 00:00:45,024 Speaker 2: twist and telling her story and tells us about her 12 00:00:45,064 --> 00:00:48,584 Speaker 2: journey of going through early menopause how that affected her 13 00:00:48,664 --> 00:00:51,704 Speaker 2: life in the film industry. She also talks about her 14 00:00:51,744 --> 00:00:55,384 Speaker 2: relationships and she really gets into why she felt the 15 00:00:55,464 --> 00:00:57,584 Speaker 2: need to keep this a secret for so long, and 16 00:00:57,624 --> 00:00:59,784 Speaker 2: then why she decided to come out and break down 17 00:00:59,784 --> 00:01:02,344 Speaker 2: the stigma around something that so many women are going through. 18 00:01:02,664 --> 00:01:06,944 Speaker 3: Also, Laura Ronnick wrote a exclusive Mama Mia cover story 19 00:01:07,024 --> 00:01:09,264 Speaker 3: on this interview. It is so good. Some of the 20 00:01:09,344 --> 00:01:10,904 Speaker 3: quotes in there, I don't want to say spoiler, but some 21 00:01:10,904 --> 00:01:13,304 Speaker 3: of the quotes in there literally made me sit in 22 00:01:13,304 --> 00:01:16,064 Speaker 3: my seat and I went, like, that's the sound I 23 00:01:16,144 --> 00:01:20,424 Speaker 3: made exactly, even just like understanding Naomi's entire career and 24 00:01:20,424 --> 00:01:22,704 Speaker 3: she's been in the industry for so long, but that 25 00:01:22,744 --> 00:01:24,864 Speaker 3: cover story is so good. We're also going to be 26 00:01:24,904 --> 00:01:27,224 Speaker 3: linking that in our show notes to this episode. 27 00:01:27,584 --> 00:01:30,904 Speaker 2: So here is Naomi Watts. She's a fascinating woman. Enjoy 28 00:01:30,944 --> 00:01:31,624 Speaker 2: this conversation. 29 00:01:32,144 --> 00:01:32,944 Speaker 4: I think I just. 30 00:01:32,864 --> 00:01:35,664 Speaker 5: Got to the point where I was the burden was 31 00:01:35,704 --> 00:01:39,344 Speaker 5: too heavy. I was carrying around this secret I wanted 32 00:01:39,344 --> 00:01:43,184 Speaker 5: to feel my best self, and it just it wasn't. 33 00:01:43,424 --> 00:01:44,664 Speaker 4: It wasn't a great. 34 00:01:44,464 --> 00:01:48,944 Speaker 5: Feeling, and I think the time spent carrying that around, 35 00:01:49,384 --> 00:01:50,944 Speaker 5: you know. I think it wasn't until I was in 36 00:01:50,984 --> 00:01:53,024 Speaker 5: my late forties where I was like, I'm just going 37 00:01:53,064 --> 00:01:53,784 Speaker 5: to own this. 38 00:02:01,904 --> 00:02:05,064 Speaker 6: From Ammia. You're listening to no filter and I'm mea friedman. 39 00:02:06,104 --> 00:02:08,584 Speaker 6: Here's something that I've noticed about famous people in Hollywood, 40 00:02:08,624 --> 00:02:13,104 Speaker 6: particularly women. There's a difference between being a celebrity and 41 00:02:13,144 --> 00:02:18,304 Speaker 6: being an actor. Kate Blanchette actor, Jennifer Aniston celebrity, Emma 42 00:02:18,384 --> 00:02:25,224 Speaker 6: Stone actor, Angelina Jolie celebrity. Toni Collett actor Blake Lively, celebrity, 43 00:02:25,744 --> 00:02:28,624 Speaker 6: Meryl Street actor. It's quite a fun game to play, 44 00:02:29,224 --> 00:02:32,624 Speaker 6: and it's not about success or talent, because being a 45 00:02:32,664 --> 00:02:35,944 Speaker 6: celebrity is absolutely not a dice. That's certainly not the 46 00:02:36,024 --> 00:02:38,544 Speaker 6: lens through which I'm looking when I talk about this. 47 00:02:38,984 --> 00:02:41,264 Speaker 6: Celebrities can win Oscars too, and they do. 48 00:02:42,224 --> 00:02:43,624 Speaker 1: But I think there's a real. 49 00:02:43,464 --> 00:02:47,864 Speaker 6: Difference because with celebrities, we know a lot about their lives, 50 00:02:48,184 --> 00:02:52,064 Speaker 6: their relationships and their exes and their kids if they 51 00:02:52,064 --> 00:02:55,744 Speaker 6: have them, their bodies, or their style, or their coastars 52 00:02:55,904 --> 00:02:59,784 Speaker 6: or opinions, or maybe the causes they believe in, and 53 00:02:59,864 --> 00:03:03,064 Speaker 6: oftentimes we probably know more about all of those things 54 00:03:03,584 --> 00:03:07,224 Speaker 6: than we do about their work. But with actors, we 55 00:03:07,344 --> 00:03:09,664 Speaker 6: draw a bit of a blank about their personal lives 56 00:03:09,704 --> 00:03:12,704 Speaker 6: because they tell and to disappear into their work and 57 00:03:12,744 --> 00:03:14,944 Speaker 6: the characters that they play, and they don't give a 58 00:03:14,944 --> 00:03:19,104 Speaker 6: lot of themselves publicly, whether it's in interviews or on 59 00:03:19,224 --> 00:03:23,064 Speaker 6: social and that's not by accident. My guest today has 60 00:03:23,104 --> 00:03:27,104 Speaker 6: been an actor for most of her life, almost forty years, 61 00:03:27,264 --> 00:03:29,304 Speaker 6: since her late teens when she was on Home and 62 00:03:29,344 --> 00:03:33,024 Speaker 6: Away and Hey Dad, all the way through to more 63 00:03:33,064 --> 00:03:37,064 Speaker 6: recently when she has been nominated for one hundred Acting 64 00:03:37,104 --> 00:03:39,384 Speaker 6: awards and won forty six of them. She's one of 65 00:03:39,384 --> 00:03:42,904 Speaker 6: the most famous actors of her generation, but I wouldn't 66 00:03:42,904 --> 00:03:46,824 Speaker 6: call her a celebrity. Naomi Watts is fifty six now, 67 00:03:47,104 --> 00:03:49,744 Speaker 6: and the reason that I would put her in the 68 00:03:49,824 --> 00:03:53,624 Speaker 6: actor category is because even though she was actually with 69 00:03:53,904 --> 00:03:57,424 Speaker 6: another very famous actor, Liev Schreiber, and they have two 70 00:03:57,504 --> 00:04:01,144 Speaker 6: kids together, and the fact that one of her closest 71 00:04:01,184 --> 00:04:05,344 Speaker 6: friends is Nicole Kidman, Naomi has always been very private 72 00:04:05,464 --> 00:04:08,544 Speaker 6: about her off screen life. She's let her work very 73 00:04:08,664 --> 00:04:12,224 Speaker 6: much do the talking. You probably didn't even know that 74 00:04:12,264 --> 00:04:17,104 Speaker 6: she recently married actor Billy Crutter, and you probably didn't 75 00:04:17,144 --> 00:04:20,464 Speaker 6: even know even though they're both huge deals in Hollywood, again, 76 00:04:20,664 --> 00:04:24,264 Speaker 6: because she's more of an actor than she is a celebrity. Now. 77 00:04:24,264 --> 00:04:27,384 Speaker 6: A couple of years ago, something pretty interesting happened. I 78 00:04:27,464 --> 00:04:31,104 Speaker 6: follow Naomi on socials because I think she's an incredible actor, 79 00:04:31,144 --> 00:04:34,224 Speaker 6: and also we have some friends in common, and I 80 00:04:34,384 --> 00:04:37,424 Speaker 6: noticed that she was starting to venture more into the 81 00:04:37,464 --> 00:04:41,704 Speaker 6: public eye as herself. She was one of the first 82 00:04:41,904 --> 00:04:45,064 Speaker 6: famous women to talk openly on social media, no less 83 00:04:45,104 --> 00:04:48,744 Speaker 6: about menopause. She experienced it far earlier than most women 84 00:04:48,784 --> 00:04:52,504 Speaker 6: and it caused her a huge amount of shame, something 85 00:04:52,544 --> 00:04:56,264 Speaker 6: that she's only just recently decided to reject. 86 00:04:56,744 --> 00:04:59,424 Speaker 1: She's written a book. It's called Dare I Say It? 87 00:04:59,544 --> 00:05:02,824 Speaker 6: Everything I Wish I'd known about menopause, and it is 88 00:05:02,944 --> 00:05:06,104 Speaker 6: so good. It's partly a memoir because we learn a 89 00:05:06,144 --> 00:05:09,944 Speaker 6: lot about Naomi's own experiences and her life, but it's 90 00:05:09,984 --> 00:05:13,264 Speaker 6: also a field guide because it's packed with really useful 91 00:05:13,384 --> 00:05:16,704 Speaker 6: information from experts for any woman who is in this 92 00:05:16,784 --> 00:05:20,304 Speaker 6: life stage or about to hit this life stage. The 93 00:05:20,344 --> 00:05:23,104 Speaker 6: thing you're about to discover about Naomi and I promise 94 00:05:23,144 --> 00:05:24,504 Speaker 6: I'll get to the interview in a second. 95 00:05:25,064 --> 00:05:30,664 Speaker 1: She is stupidly normal, like ridiculously normal. She doesn't seem 96 00:05:31,184 --> 00:05:33,584 Speaker 1: like a celebrity. So maybe she's. 97 00:05:33,504 --> 00:05:36,664 Speaker 6: Kind of inventing a new category because she's kicking these 98 00:05:36,784 --> 00:05:39,784 Speaker 6: huge career goals as an actor. Maybe you saw her 99 00:05:39,864 --> 00:05:43,824 Speaker 6: in Capodi Versus the Swans and the Watcher and a 100 00:05:43,824 --> 00:05:46,264 Speaker 6: whole lot of stuff. She's having this major resurgence in 101 00:05:46,304 --> 00:05:47,664 Speaker 6: her career. Everybody wants to. 102 00:05:47,584 --> 00:05:48,144 Speaker 1: Work with her. 103 00:05:48,664 --> 00:05:50,904 Speaker 6: The book is incredible while at the same time being 104 00:05:50,904 --> 00:05:54,504 Speaker 6: really candid. So she's this incredible actor who only seems 105 00:05:54,544 --> 00:05:57,904 Speaker 6: to be getting more and more accomplished and skilled at 106 00:05:57,904 --> 00:06:01,424 Speaker 6: her craft, while at the same time she started to 107 00:06:01,464 --> 00:06:05,024 Speaker 6: become really candid about her life publicly, and that is new. 108 00:06:05,944 --> 00:06:10,344 Speaker 6: I started this conversation with Naomi discussing what she called 109 00:06:10,784 --> 00:06:13,344 Speaker 6: the bookends of shame in her life, which I thought 110 00:06:13,384 --> 00:06:16,904 Speaker 6: was such an interesting way to talk about it, the 111 00:06:16,944 --> 00:06:20,064 Speaker 6: fact that she started her period really late and the 112 00:06:20,104 --> 00:06:25,224 Speaker 6: fact that she started perimenopause really early. Enjoy this delightful 113 00:06:25,264 --> 00:06:29,544 Speaker 6: conversation with Naomi Watts. Can you tell me what you 114 00:06:29,584 --> 00:06:32,224 Speaker 6: were ashamed of when you found out at thirty six 115 00:06:32,344 --> 00:06:35,064 Speaker 6: that you were going into early menopause? 116 00:06:36,824 --> 00:06:41,064 Speaker 5: Well, I was ashamed that I was, you know, thinking 117 00:06:41,104 --> 00:06:44,224 Speaker 5: this was the end of everything, and you know, not 118 00:06:44,304 --> 00:06:48,704 Speaker 5: just my fertility, my career, my use as a woman. 119 00:06:48,544 --> 00:06:51,544 Speaker 4: Which is absurd and I. 120 00:06:50,984 --> 00:06:53,744 Speaker 5: Dig into that in the book as well, but this 121 00:06:54,184 --> 00:06:58,864 Speaker 5: societal imprint of your worth is wrapped up in your fertility, 122 00:06:59,104 --> 00:07:03,944 Speaker 5: and when that reproductive system breaks down, you're I mean, 123 00:07:03,984 --> 00:07:07,224 Speaker 5: as doctor Gunter her quote is just so wonderful. 124 00:07:07,264 --> 00:07:11,264 Speaker 4: You're just chucked in the pile. You're done. 125 00:07:11,304 --> 00:07:12,424 Speaker 1: What's the point of view. 126 00:07:12,664 --> 00:07:14,944 Speaker 5: Yeah, My way of saying is, oh Am, I supposed 127 00:07:14,984 --> 00:07:16,944 Speaker 5: to go to the corner and pull out my knitting 128 00:07:17,144 --> 00:07:21,984 Speaker 5: needles and just rock on the chair. It really felt scary, 129 00:07:22,064 --> 00:07:25,864 Speaker 5: and that created a lot of shame knowing, and I 130 00:07:25,904 --> 00:07:28,424 Speaker 5: think this speaks to the beginning book end. 131 00:07:29,184 --> 00:07:31,024 Speaker 4: You just want to be like everyone else. 132 00:07:31,144 --> 00:07:33,584 Speaker 5: You just want to be on the same page at 133 00:07:33,584 --> 00:07:36,904 Speaker 5: the same time and not sort of go too far 134 00:07:36,984 --> 00:07:41,824 Speaker 5: from the crowd that you're moving within. And certainly that's 135 00:07:41,904 --> 00:07:45,904 Speaker 5: how it started with me, when everyone was, you know, having. 136 00:07:45,704 --> 00:07:49,864 Speaker 4: Their period in their thirteen fourteen year old. 137 00:07:49,704 --> 00:07:53,624 Speaker 5: Years and I was nowhere, and I went so far 138 00:07:53,904 --> 00:07:56,824 Speaker 5: as to make myself be a part of. 139 00:07:56,784 --> 00:07:59,664 Speaker 4: That group so I could keep up with the Joneses. 140 00:07:59,744 --> 00:08:05,024 Speaker 5: And literally faked having a period and stuffed to tampon 141 00:08:05,464 --> 00:08:11,904 Speaker 5: up there, my poor little badge, and just so my 142 00:08:12,464 --> 00:08:16,544 Speaker 5: boarding school friends would see a string and think that 143 00:08:16,624 --> 00:08:19,384 Speaker 5: I was grown up too. So the minute I hit 144 00:08:19,504 --> 00:08:23,824 Speaker 5: menup well or started feeling symptoms and sort of was 145 00:08:23,864 --> 00:08:26,664 Speaker 5: slowly testing the waters with some of my closest friends, 146 00:08:26,664 --> 00:08:28,464 Speaker 5: and it was all met with Oh, don't. 147 00:08:28,304 --> 00:08:31,424 Speaker 4: Be silly, there's no way, You're way too young. 148 00:08:31,584 --> 00:08:36,184 Speaker 5: That's just ridiculous, you know, which instantly told me, Oh, 149 00:08:37,024 --> 00:08:41,184 Speaker 5: this is not happening for anyone, And so you retreat, 150 00:08:41,784 --> 00:08:43,104 Speaker 5: and then the shame. 151 00:08:42,904 --> 00:08:45,344 Speaker 1: Begins so many of us. 152 00:08:45,424 --> 00:08:50,224 Speaker 6: Well, for me, my menopause and my pery symptoms and 153 00:08:50,264 --> 00:08:52,744 Speaker 6: all of the emotions and physical symptoms that came with 154 00:08:52,784 --> 00:08:56,424 Speaker 6: it happened when I was in a really good place 155 00:08:56,464 --> 00:08:59,264 Speaker 6: in my career. I'd achieved a lot, and I'd had 156 00:08:59,304 --> 00:09:03,704 Speaker 6: three children. For you, it came in a very different place, 157 00:09:03,824 --> 00:09:07,344 Speaker 6: and it happened early. For you. A lot of women 158 00:09:07,384 --> 00:09:10,984 Speaker 6: who have cancer treatment or medical issues will often be 159 00:09:11,064 --> 00:09:16,264 Speaker 6: thrust early into menopause and might grapple with similar things. 160 00:09:16,304 --> 00:09:20,064 Speaker 6: You hadn't had your children yet, and your career was 161 00:09:20,824 --> 00:09:23,504 Speaker 6: You weren't yet, Naomi Watts in quote marks. 162 00:09:23,904 --> 00:09:27,264 Speaker 1: We had you already done my hole and Drive? I had, 163 00:09:27,424 --> 00:09:31,104 Speaker 1: and I was, Naomi Watts in quote mark. 164 00:09:30,984 --> 00:09:34,264 Speaker 7: As ridiculous as it sounds when you were saying it yourself. 165 00:09:34,184 --> 00:09:36,984 Speaker 5: I had done not only my holand Drive, but King 166 00:09:37,104 --> 00:09:38,064 Speaker 5: Kong and The Ring. 167 00:09:38,584 --> 00:09:42,144 Speaker 6: Okay, so you were already, Naomi Watts. 168 00:09:42,864 --> 00:09:47,224 Speaker 5: I was playing an ngenoe in King Kong, and just 169 00:09:47,304 --> 00:09:49,984 Speaker 5: at the tail end of that I, in fact, I 170 00:09:49,984 --> 00:09:53,224 Speaker 5: think I went to New Zealand to do some pickup 171 00:09:53,264 --> 00:09:56,864 Speaker 5: three shoots, and I'd already met my partner who I 172 00:09:56,944 --> 00:10:00,304 Speaker 5: knew we were trying to start a family, but hadn't 173 00:10:00,384 --> 00:10:03,864 Speaker 5: succeeded at that point. And that's when an older friend 174 00:10:03,864 --> 00:10:05,544 Speaker 5: of mine said, well, you might want to go and 175 00:10:05,584 --> 00:10:06,744 Speaker 5: get your blood work taken. 176 00:10:06,784 --> 00:10:09,464 Speaker 4: I was like, really, why, and she said, just check 177 00:10:09,504 --> 00:10:10,024 Speaker 4: your numbers. 178 00:10:10,024 --> 00:10:13,784 Speaker 5: They could tell with hormones if that's having anything to 179 00:10:13,824 --> 00:10:17,624 Speaker 5: do with you not succeeding it getting pregnant. So I said, okay, fine, 180 00:10:18,624 --> 00:10:22,544 Speaker 5: went to my guynecologist and then he called me back 181 00:10:22,704 --> 00:10:26,064 Speaker 5: and he said, well, you know, what other symptoms have 182 00:10:26,104 --> 00:10:28,784 Speaker 5: you been having, because these numbers suggest that you're close 183 00:10:28,864 --> 00:10:29,584 Speaker 5: to menopause. 184 00:10:30,504 --> 00:10:33,984 Speaker 4: And the word, perry was not No, it was not 185 00:10:34,024 --> 00:10:36,024 Speaker 4: a thing. It wasn't a thing. 186 00:10:36,424 --> 00:10:39,144 Speaker 5: And I mean it might have been known within the 187 00:10:39,384 --> 00:10:41,944 Speaker 5: medical community, but it certainly wasn't a word I was 188 00:10:42,024 --> 00:10:46,544 Speaker 5: familiar with right up until I was well past it. 189 00:10:46,664 --> 00:10:49,264 Speaker 4: And that somehow feels like a much gentler word. 190 00:10:49,624 --> 00:10:50,304 Speaker 1: Yeah, it does. 191 00:10:50,704 --> 00:10:53,864 Speaker 6: It feels like a sort of a an off ramp. 192 00:10:54,544 --> 00:10:56,464 Speaker 4: Yes, yes, it was past. 193 00:10:57,904 --> 00:11:01,624 Speaker 5: Close to menopause did not sound like that sounded like 194 00:11:01,664 --> 00:11:05,984 Speaker 5: a dive into the deep end, and especially at the 195 00:11:06,024 --> 00:11:09,504 Speaker 5: prespice of wanting to start a family. So yeah, he 196 00:11:09,584 --> 00:11:11,824 Speaker 5: asked me to if I'd gone through any symptoms, and 197 00:11:11,864 --> 00:11:12,544 Speaker 5: I said. 198 00:11:12,464 --> 00:11:15,744 Speaker 7: Well, night sweats. And I've been ticking those. 199 00:11:15,544 --> 00:11:18,584 Speaker 5: Boxes when you have to do those like litany of 200 00:11:18,704 --> 00:11:23,304 Speaker 5: questions night sweats for years. And I had chalked it 201 00:11:23,384 --> 00:11:28,224 Speaker 5: up to our analogy to a certain food or maybe 202 00:11:28,224 --> 00:11:31,624 Speaker 5: that extra glass of wine or you know, something that 203 00:11:31,704 --> 00:11:36,824 Speaker 5: my body just wasn't tolerating. And then I talked about 204 00:11:36,824 --> 00:11:41,824 Speaker 5: my periods being a little closer together, much lighter, much shorter, 205 00:11:42,504 --> 00:11:45,944 Speaker 5: and he said, yeah, well, what about your mom? When 206 00:11:45,944 --> 00:11:47,304 Speaker 5: did she go into metopause? 207 00:11:47,344 --> 00:11:52,344 Speaker 4: And I said, oh shit, she went in at forty five. 208 00:11:52,664 --> 00:11:55,584 Speaker 4: That's all I know. I didn't know anything else. 209 00:11:55,744 --> 00:11:58,224 Speaker 5: I didn't know that she'd had a multitude of symptoms, 210 00:11:58,864 --> 00:12:02,864 Speaker 5: that she wasn't feeling great, and I didn't know that 211 00:12:02,984 --> 00:12:06,424 Speaker 5: this had, you know, taken place over a passage of time. 212 00:12:06,504 --> 00:12:09,864 Speaker 5: I just knew that she had stopped her periods at 213 00:12:09,904 --> 00:12:13,464 Speaker 5: forty five, and I was thirty six at the time, 214 00:12:13,784 --> 00:12:16,264 Speaker 5: so I still felt a long way away from that. 215 00:12:16,704 --> 00:12:19,344 Speaker 5: And yeah, and I think he said, your numbers to 216 00:12:19,624 --> 00:12:24,304 Speaker 5: get pregnant, you have to fall under sort of fifteen, 217 00:12:24,384 --> 00:12:27,664 Speaker 5: and I was already in the high teens. And my 218 00:12:27,824 --> 00:12:29,904 Speaker 5: blood tests after that were. 219 00:12:29,744 --> 00:12:30,704 Speaker 4: Just going up and up. 220 00:12:31,264 --> 00:12:34,824 Speaker 5: But yeah, there's no one specific test to say you 221 00:12:34,944 --> 00:12:38,104 Speaker 5: are in menopause as well as you know, the one 222 00:12:38,904 --> 00:12:42,664 Speaker 5: main signifier I suppose is that you haven't had a 223 00:12:42,704 --> 00:12:45,784 Speaker 5: menstruation for a full year, and then you get your 224 00:12:45,864 --> 00:12:52,944 Speaker 5: menopause birthday yepee, and then from there on your basically 225 00:12:52,984 --> 00:12:55,104 Speaker 5: postmenopausal or a menopausal. 226 00:12:56,264 --> 00:12:59,544 Speaker 6: You decided to call your book dare I say it? 227 00:12:59,624 --> 00:13:02,544 Speaker 6: And on the cover is a picture of you with 228 00:13:02,624 --> 00:13:06,024 Speaker 6: a megaphone and fires coming out of it. 229 00:13:07,144 --> 00:13:09,064 Speaker 1: That is not the kind of. 230 00:13:10,464 --> 00:13:17,784 Speaker 6: Soft focused memoir that we would expect from someone as 231 00:13:17,824 --> 00:13:21,664 Speaker 6: famous as you, or from a from a from any 232 00:13:21,744 --> 00:13:22,384 Speaker 6: kind of woman. 233 00:13:22,464 --> 00:13:24,264 Speaker 1: Really, and dare I say it? 234 00:13:24,304 --> 00:13:25,824 Speaker 6: I want to ask about that because that does that 235 00:13:25,864 --> 00:13:28,984 Speaker 6: speak to shame? Does it speak to anger? What's that about? 236 00:13:29,024 --> 00:13:30,144 Speaker 6: Tell me about that decision? 237 00:13:30,224 --> 00:13:30,424 Speaker 5: Yeah? 238 00:13:30,504 --> 00:13:30,704 Speaker 4: Lots. 239 00:13:30,944 --> 00:13:33,024 Speaker 5: Well, first of all, I want to say, I never 240 00:13:33,064 --> 00:13:35,824 Speaker 5: saw it as a memoir per se, But it's interesting 241 00:13:35,904 --> 00:13:37,064 Speaker 5: you say that. 242 00:13:37,264 --> 00:13:39,424 Speaker 4: So do you think that it as a memoir? 243 00:13:39,704 --> 00:13:42,464 Speaker 6: Yeah, because when someone asked me, when I learned what 244 00:13:42,544 --> 00:13:45,704 Speaker 6: a memoir was like, an autobiography is like your whole life. 245 00:13:45,864 --> 00:13:49,104 Speaker 6: A memoir might be a theme in your life or 246 00:13:49,144 --> 00:13:51,944 Speaker 6: a period of time in your life. And to me, 247 00:13:52,384 --> 00:13:54,064 Speaker 6: this is about a theme in your life. And it's 248 00:13:54,064 --> 00:13:56,584 Speaker 6: not just about your life. It's about your life through 249 00:13:56,584 --> 00:13:57,944 Speaker 6: the lens of menopause. 250 00:13:58,464 --> 00:14:02,184 Speaker 1: But it's it's it's. 251 00:14:01,464 --> 00:14:05,304 Speaker 6: Not just a like a textbook. There's a lot of 252 00:14:05,344 --> 00:14:08,464 Speaker 6: personal stuff. You brought a lot of yourself to this book. 253 00:14:09,504 --> 00:14:11,264 Speaker 4: I had to bring myself to it. 254 00:14:11,784 --> 00:14:14,264 Speaker 5: You can't do this in half measure, and otherwise I 255 00:14:14,344 --> 00:14:16,624 Speaker 5: really would have been to me, it would have been 256 00:14:16,664 --> 00:14:21,024 Speaker 5: strictly a memoir where I'm just telling endless stories about myself. 257 00:14:21,024 --> 00:14:22,264 Speaker 4: But it's shared. 258 00:14:22,344 --> 00:14:26,624 Speaker 5: The focus is shared with the expertise of doctors, with 259 00:14:26,904 --> 00:14:30,744 Speaker 5: other friends of mine, friends of friends, their stories. 260 00:14:30,824 --> 00:14:31,744 Speaker 1: It's very useful. 261 00:14:31,824 --> 00:14:33,944 Speaker 4: So all well, thank you. 262 00:14:34,144 --> 00:14:37,944 Speaker 5: Also, I mean, it's the book I wanted when I 263 00:14:38,024 --> 00:14:41,144 Speaker 5: was going through that because the Internet was not even 264 00:14:41,224 --> 00:14:42,584 Speaker 5: really active, I had. 265 00:14:42,424 --> 00:14:43,264 Speaker 4: No place to go. 266 00:14:43,464 --> 00:14:45,424 Speaker 5: And when I, as I told you, when I'd go 267 00:14:45,504 --> 00:14:47,904 Speaker 5: to friends and I felt the doors closed, I was 268 00:14:47,944 --> 00:14:52,184 Speaker 5: like internalizing everything and then thinking I was losing my 269 00:14:52,304 --> 00:14:55,184 Speaker 5: mind because I didn't have an outlet. So this is 270 00:14:55,264 --> 00:15:00,424 Speaker 5: supposed to be a cozy conversation on account with your girlfriend. 271 00:15:00,504 --> 00:15:03,624 Speaker 6: We talk about Mamma Maya, the three pillars of everything 272 00:15:03,664 --> 00:15:06,584 Speaker 6: we do are help, heart, and humana, and. 273 00:15:06,864 --> 00:15:08,704 Speaker 1: This book is all three of those things for me. 274 00:15:09,024 --> 00:15:12,984 Speaker 6: It's funny, it's incredibly helpful, and it has so much heart. 275 00:15:13,024 --> 00:15:15,624 Speaker 6: And it's the book I needed too because it made 276 00:15:15,704 --> 00:15:19,264 Speaker 6: me feel sort of seen, heard and understood, which is 277 00:15:19,304 --> 00:15:23,424 Speaker 6: another thing that we talk about when you're communicating with women. 278 00:15:23,904 --> 00:15:26,344 Speaker 1: But dare I say it? Tell me about that? 279 00:15:26,504 --> 00:15:27,384 Speaker 4: So I love? 280 00:15:27,584 --> 00:15:31,304 Speaker 5: I mean, as you know, choosing titles, names for anything 281 00:15:31,424 --> 00:15:32,784 Speaker 5: is virtually impossible. 282 00:15:32,824 --> 00:15:34,864 Speaker 4: Everything's taken, you know. 283 00:15:35,944 --> 00:15:40,184 Speaker 5: I've had it that kind of difficulty with my company 284 00:15:40,184 --> 00:15:43,664 Speaker 5: Stripes Beauty as well naming products, and it's just it 285 00:15:43,744 --> 00:15:46,344 Speaker 5: takes a lot of effort. I've always been into wordplace 286 00:15:46,504 --> 00:15:49,904 Speaker 5: and expressions, and to speak. 287 00:15:49,624 --> 00:15:52,184 Speaker 4: To your point about heart, humor and help. 288 00:15:52,664 --> 00:15:56,544 Speaker 5: I want all of those things incorporated into every bit 289 00:15:56,544 --> 00:15:58,344 Speaker 5: of messaging I'm trying to put across. 290 00:15:58,424 --> 00:16:03,104 Speaker 4: And yes, I wanted it to feel bold. I did. 291 00:16:03,224 --> 00:16:04,224 Speaker 4: Dare to say it? 292 00:16:04,304 --> 00:16:07,584 Speaker 5: Why because there was a need And I'm sick of 293 00:16:07,624 --> 00:16:09,304 Speaker 5: holding the secret and shame. 294 00:16:10,624 --> 00:16:13,224 Speaker 4: You know, I feel like shit. 295 00:16:13,504 --> 00:16:18,464 Speaker 5: And so the chances are every other woman who's lucky 296 00:16:18,584 --> 00:16:21,024 Speaker 5: enough to be able to go through menopause to live 297 00:16:21,064 --> 00:16:22,264 Speaker 5: that long is. 298 00:16:22,224 --> 00:16:24,024 Speaker 4: Going to feel some version of that. 299 00:16:24,104 --> 00:16:27,424 Speaker 5: Some might sail through and don't need to have one 300 00:16:27,464 --> 00:16:30,904 Speaker 5: single conversation, but it's just nice to know. 301 00:16:32,504 --> 00:16:34,184 Speaker 4: You know, hey, are you going through that? 302 00:16:34,784 --> 00:16:35,024 Speaker 7: Yeah? 303 00:16:35,104 --> 00:16:35,464 Speaker 4: Me too. 304 00:16:35,744 --> 00:16:39,504 Speaker 7: I see it's tough. How about we talk about it. 305 00:16:39,544 --> 00:16:44,264 Speaker 5: I wanted to create a conversation that helped women feel, 306 00:16:44,584 --> 00:16:48,944 Speaker 5: as you say, seen, and yes, the humor and the irreverence, 307 00:16:49,184 --> 00:16:52,584 Speaker 5: we're all part of it because it's so much more palatable. 308 00:16:52,984 --> 00:16:56,144 Speaker 5: It's not all doom and gloom, although there is plenty 309 00:16:56,224 --> 00:16:58,864 Speaker 5: of it, and I'm not going to shy away from it, 310 00:16:59,144 --> 00:17:03,064 Speaker 5: but we can approach it with some humor. You know, 311 00:17:03,184 --> 00:17:07,504 Speaker 5: tell these ridiculous, horrific stories and then you know, as 312 00:17:07,544 --> 00:17:10,504 Speaker 5: you remove yourself from them, they can be funny. And 313 00:17:10,544 --> 00:17:13,384 Speaker 5: you got through it, and through that you learned something, 314 00:17:13,464 --> 00:17:16,624 Speaker 5: you survived, and you can share it with your friend. 315 00:17:17,224 --> 00:17:20,944 Speaker 5: So it's a little less echy for them. And so 316 00:17:21,024 --> 00:17:22,744 Speaker 5: that was sort of the point of the book. And 317 00:17:22,784 --> 00:17:25,424 Speaker 5: the dare I say it was just it's an expression 318 00:17:25,504 --> 00:17:29,504 Speaker 5: that my grandmother used all the time, and as you 319 00:17:29,784 --> 00:17:32,864 Speaker 5: may know, she's the matriarch of my family and has 320 00:17:32,984 --> 00:17:37,624 Speaker 5: left me with all of her values, and yeah, it 321 00:17:37,744 --> 00:17:42,344 Speaker 5: just felt like it was bold, cheeky and fun. Yeah, 322 00:17:42,744 --> 00:17:46,704 Speaker 5: I'm daring. I hope it doesn't feel too uncomfortable for you. 323 00:17:47,264 --> 00:17:49,744 Speaker 5: It certainly was for me, and I'm guessing all of 324 00:17:49,784 --> 00:17:52,144 Speaker 5: these other women that had to carry around the same 325 00:17:52,384 --> 00:17:57,064 Speaker 5: kind of secrets. But let's help you tolerate it more. 326 00:18:00,944 --> 00:18:04,064 Speaker 6: After this shortbreak, Naomi and I discuss what it's like 327 00:18:04,264 --> 00:18:07,224 Speaker 6: to be a woman in her fifties in Hollywood, and 328 00:18:07,224 --> 00:18:09,864 Speaker 6: also how she met her husband, Billy craut Up. 329 00:18:09,944 --> 00:18:10,264 Speaker 4: Stay with. 330 00:18:15,984 --> 00:18:20,344 Speaker 6: Your experience is I mean, there are so many universal 331 00:18:20,384 --> 00:18:26,104 Speaker 6: things about going through menopause, and some people might think, oh, well, 332 00:18:26,104 --> 00:18:29,264 Speaker 6: she's a Hollywood star, she's one of the most famous 333 00:18:29,264 --> 00:18:32,424 Speaker 6: women in the world. It would be different for her. 334 00:18:32,784 --> 00:18:36,744 Speaker 6: And what was so funny about your book is that 335 00:18:37,224 --> 00:18:39,224 Speaker 6: some of the examples and some of the ways it 336 00:18:39,264 --> 00:18:42,664 Speaker 6: manifested for you were not like a regular person, like 337 00:18:42,744 --> 00:18:46,544 Speaker 6: the forgetfulness and the story you tell about you were 338 00:18:46,544 --> 00:18:48,664 Speaker 6: going to the Golden Globes and you were texting with 339 00:18:48,704 --> 00:18:51,784 Speaker 6: a friend and you were just you missed the boarding call, 340 00:18:52,264 --> 00:18:54,504 Speaker 6: so you missed your flight. You had to get on 341 00:18:54,544 --> 00:18:57,464 Speaker 6: another flight, and you had to go the whole way. 342 00:18:57,544 --> 00:19:00,504 Speaker 6: It was packed with your golden globes dress on your lap. 343 00:19:01,024 --> 00:19:04,184 Speaker 6: Now that's probably not an anecdote that would happen to 344 00:19:04,464 --> 00:19:08,544 Speaker 6: many other women, but we've all had that same sort 345 00:19:08,544 --> 00:19:09,264 Speaker 6: of experience. 346 00:19:09,344 --> 00:19:12,464 Speaker 1: It's like celebrity, they're just like us, right, But. 347 00:19:12,584 --> 00:19:17,184 Speaker 6: You live in this microcosm of you know, like our 348 00:19:17,224 --> 00:19:19,704 Speaker 6: culture on steroids in terms of Hollywood and the way 349 00:19:19,744 --> 00:19:22,504 Speaker 6: it judges women for getting older, and it would seem 350 00:19:22,504 --> 00:19:24,144 Speaker 6: from the outside that the worst thing you can do 351 00:19:24,184 --> 00:19:27,864 Speaker 6: in Hollywood is get older. How did it play out 352 00:19:27,904 --> 00:19:31,824 Speaker 6: for you? I mean there's the private, the secret of it, 353 00:19:31,864 --> 00:19:33,624 Speaker 6: and the shame of it when you were going through it. 354 00:19:33,904 --> 00:19:37,264 Speaker 6: But when you decided to speak out about it and 355 00:19:37,304 --> 00:19:40,424 Speaker 6: be public about it and start a company and write 356 00:19:40,424 --> 00:19:45,584 Speaker 6: this book, what were the considerations that you had to 357 00:19:45,624 --> 00:19:48,104 Speaker 6: take into account and the people around. 358 00:19:47,744 --> 00:19:49,344 Speaker 1: You in terms of what impact it would have on 359 00:19:49,384 --> 00:19:49,864 Speaker 1: your career. 360 00:19:51,144 --> 00:19:55,144 Speaker 5: So in the I started late, as many of your 361 00:19:55,184 --> 00:19:59,024 Speaker 5: listeners may know, not by choice. It just didn't turn 362 00:19:59,064 --> 00:20:01,864 Speaker 5: out that I got going in my early twenties, Like 363 00:20:01,904 --> 00:20:07,984 Speaker 5: lots of actors I tried, didn't go so well. And 364 00:20:08,024 --> 00:20:13,664 Speaker 5: not until David Lynch cast me and muholland Drive was I. 365 00:20:12,744 --> 00:20:14,064 Speaker 4: Known within the industry. 366 00:20:14,104 --> 00:20:17,384 Speaker 5: And then things kicked off pretty quickly after that, and 367 00:20:17,784 --> 00:20:20,704 Speaker 5: I remember at the time an agent saying, well, it 368 00:20:20,784 --> 00:20:22,824 Speaker 5: is all it's all going to dry up at forty 369 00:20:23,504 --> 00:20:30,984 Speaker 5: quite naturally. Yeah, but so you better put the pedal 370 00:20:31,024 --> 00:20:34,664 Speaker 5: to the metal and just go like gangbusters working. 371 00:20:35,024 --> 00:20:37,984 Speaker 4: So I was like, oh my god, and why is 372 00:20:38,024 --> 00:20:39,144 Speaker 4: it all over? What do you mean? 373 00:20:39,184 --> 00:20:43,144 Speaker 5: And they said, well, you know kind of what happens 374 00:20:43,224 --> 00:20:47,664 Speaker 5: is you work until you're you know, unfuckable. 375 00:20:48,424 --> 00:20:49,744 Speaker 4: And sorry, I don't know if. 376 00:20:50,104 --> 00:20:52,624 Speaker 1: You can swear. I heard that a lot. I've heard 377 00:20:52,664 --> 00:20:53,064 Speaker 1: that a lot. 378 00:20:53,664 --> 00:20:56,304 Speaker 6: And that's part of menopause, right, it's like your official 379 00:20:56,304 --> 00:20:57,864 Speaker 6: time when you're not fuckable anymore? 380 00:20:58,184 --> 00:21:01,384 Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly, Like and what does that mean? 381 00:21:01,784 --> 00:21:05,944 Speaker 5: Oh okay, right, when you're not producing babies. 382 00:21:06,784 --> 00:21:09,424 Speaker 4: You're not fuckable. They don't want to fuck you. 383 00:21:11,104 --> 00:21:15,984 Speaker 5: Doesn't sound right or fair, you know, like, but it 384 00:21:16,104 --> 00:21:19,744 Speaker 5: sat with me and I did work like crazy for 385 00:21:19,784 --> 00:21:23,144 Speaker 5: that ten years, and I felt the looming and then 386 00:21:23,224 --> 00:21:26,464 Speaker 5: you know, as you know, I was then told I 387 00:21:26,504 --> 00:21:29,264 Speaker 5: was going into early menopause, and so I was definitely 388 00:21:29,264 --> 00:21:30,504 Speaker 5: not going to share that secret. 389 00:21:30,744 --> 00:21:31,864 Speaker 4: I definitely wish. 390 00:21:31,744 --> 00:21:34,904 Speaker 5: I had a source, a resource of some kind for 391 00:21:34,984 --> 00:21:38,744 Speaker 5: me to feel less alone, like a book, like the Internet, 392 00:21:39,024 --> 00:21:40,904 Speaker 5: like friends, doctors. 393 00:21:40,464 --> 00:21:42,024 Speaker 4: Even to talk to. 394 00:21:42,264 --> 00:21:45,824 Speaker 5: There was no one, and I think I just got 395 00:21:45,864 --> 00:21:49,144 Speaker 5: to the point where I was the burden was too heavy. 396 00:21:49,304 --> 00:21:52,544 Speaker 5: I was carrying around this secret I wanted to feel 397 00:21:52,704 --> 00:21:56,624 Speaker 5: my best self, and it just it wasn't. It wasn't 398 00:21:56,624 --> 00:22:01,104 Speaker 5: a great feeling. And I think the time spent carrying 399 00:22:01,144 --> 00:22:03,424 Speaker 5: that around, you know. I think it wasn't until I 400 00:22:03,464 --> 00:22:05,504 Speaker 5: was in my late forties where I was like, I'm 401 00:22:05,504 --> 00:22:08,144 Speaker 5: just going to own this. And it was really a 402 00:22:08,144 --> 00:22:11,304 Speaker 5: lot to do with meeting my husband and he's now 403 00:22:11,384 --> 00:22:15,144 Speaker 5: my husband, and being able to be brave enough with him. 404 00:22:15,584 --> 00:22:18,504 Speaker 4: It was really then from then on, and. 405 00:22:18,984 --> 00:22:22,664 Speaker 5: He wasn't like, oh ick, that's not He didn't have 406 00:22:22,704 --> 00:22:24,224 Speaker 5: any squeamishness around it. 407 00:22:24,304 --> 00:22:26,384 Speaker 4: He was just like, oh great, okay, what should we do. 408 00:22:27,104 --> 00:22:31,424 Speaker 5: The minute I felt safe sharing it with my partner, 409 00:22:31,664 --> 00:22:36,464 Speaker 5: I just kind of went surround sound and just and 410 00:22:36,504 --> 00:22:39,624 Speaker 5: told everyone. And I'd already been in the beauty space 411 00:22:40,264 --> 00:22:44,144 Speaker 5: before with Honder Beauty and learned a lot about skincare 412 00:22:44,224 --> 00:22:47,344 Speaker 5: and stuff, and the skincare piece of it that was 413 00:22:47,384 --> 00:22:51,784 Speaker 5: a massive issue this symptom for me, and I had 414 00:22:51,864 --> 00:22:52,864 Speaker 5: no idea. 415 00:22:52,504 --> 00:22:54,304 Speaker 4: That that was related to menopause. 416 00:22:54,624 --> 00:23:00,024 Speaker 5: I had raging, itchy, agitated red skin, and I was 417 00:23:00,024 --> 00:23:03,664 Speaker 5: on TV hours and hours of the day, and it 418 00:23:03,824 --> 00:23:08,424 Speaker 5: was just really uncomfortable, and nothing that a cortisone cream 419 00:23:08,464 --> 00:23:10,344 Speaker 5: would fix more than a day or two. 420 00:23:10,544 --> 00:23:12,184 Speaker 4: It was just I was in a loop. 421 00:23:13,024 --> 00:23:16,184 Speaker 5: And it wasn't until I did deep research that some 422 00:23:16,264 --> 00:23:18,904 Speaker 5: of these ingredients in these products I'd been using before 423 00:23:18,944 --> 00:23:21,424 Speaker 5: were just now not going to work for me any longer. 424 00:23:21,504 --> 00:23:25,064 Speaker 5: They were too harsh, too stripping, and so I wanted 425 00:23:25,104 --> 00:23:27,904 Speaker 5: to create a line. And that's when I came up 426 00:23:27,904 --> 00:23:31,704 Speaker 5: with the idea for Stripe's Beauty that was specifically targeting women, 427 00:23:32,504 --> 00:23:37,504 Speaker 5: were speaking to women with those same symptoms and targeting 428 00:23:37,544 --> 00:23:40,784 Speaker 5: their needs massive hydration loss. 429 00:23:40,824 --> 00:23:46,304 Speaker 6: Basically, when you decided to speak out, were the people 430 00:23:46,384 --> 00:23:50,464 Speaker 6: around you who manage your career nervous because would that 431 00:23:50,624 --> 00:23:52,624 Speaker 6: change how you were seen in your industry? 432 00:23:52,664 --> 00:23:55,224 Speaker 1: Would it change the parts that you were considered for. 433 00:23:56,344 --> 00:24:00,464 Speaker 5: I certainly thought about it myself over and over again. 434 00:24:00,504 --> 00:24:03,144 Speaker 5: It's this a good idea or a terrible idea. I 435 00:24:03,264 --> 00:24:06,384 Speaker 5: really oscillated back and forth. 436 00:24:06,344 --> 00:24:08,704 Speaker 4: And I took my time. 437 00:24:08,824 --> 00:24:13,184 Speaker 5: It took years to come to develop the nerve to 438 00:24:13,264 --> 00:24:16,864 Speaker 5: actually finally say it out loud, and like I said, 439 00:24:16,944 --> 00:24:20,384 Speaker 5: the exhaustion, I thought, you know, this is too much 440 00:24:20,424 --> 00:24:23,264 Speaker 5: to carry, and almost naming every problem that you have 441 00:24:23,424 --> 00:24:26,144 Speaker 5: before somebody else does is empowering. 442 00:24:26,504 --> 00:24:26,704 Speaker 6: Yeah. 443 00:24:26,944 --> 00:24:30,584 Speaker 5: Once I learned the statistics that all of these women 444 00:24:30,624 --> 00:24:34,264 Speaker 5: are going into menopause every single day, and that's fifty 445 00:24:34,304 --> 00:24:37,824 Speaker 5: percent of the population that will get there. Why is 446 00:24:37,864 --> 00:24:40,544 Speaker 5: it such a taboo thing? This just doesn't make any sense. 447 00:24:40,824 --> 00:24:43,584 Speaker 6: Have you noticed that it's changed the way you've been perceived? 448 00:24:43,864 --> 00:24:45,584 Speaker 6: Do you get sent different? Well? 449 00:24:45,624 --> 00:24:48,144 Speaker 5: Now, I mean, you know, I'm working on a show 450 00:24:48,264 --> 00:24:52,944 Speaker 5: with all women right now and menopause. There's lines in 451 00:24:52,984 --> 00:24:55,544 Speaker 5: it that's addressing menopause. 452 00:24:56,024 --> 00:24:58,184 Speaker 4: There was in Feud as well. 453 00:24:58,824 --> 00:25:00,664 Speaker 7: They know I'm not afraid to talk about it. 454 00:25:00,744 --> 00:25:01,224 Speaker 4: Obviously. 455 00:25:01,504 --> 00:25:05,144 Speaker 6: You said you've become like the Hollywood go to confessor 456 00:25:05,224 --> 00:25:11,184 Speaker 6: that women like famous women just text you, Hi, I'm there, 457 00:25:11,304 --> 00:25:12,064 Speaker 6: I've arrived. 458 00:25:12,144 --> 00:25:13,064 Speaker 1: What does that feel like? 459 00:25:14,064 --> 00:25:17,904 Speaker 5: Yeah, it's funny and I welcome them. I say, yeah, 460 00:25:17,944 --> 00:25:19,984 Speaker 5: bring it on. What do you need a doctor? Do 461 00:25:20,024 --> 00:25:22,584 Speaker 5: you need a shoulder? Do you need a love? 462 00:25:22,824 --> 00:25:23,024 Speaker 6: You know? 463 00:25:23,544 --> 00:25:26,504 Speaker 5: How can I help? And I really appreciate it. Yeah, 464 00:25:26,584 --> 00:25:29,464 Speaker 5: people want to confess. They don't want to carry it 465 00:25:29,544 --> 00:25:33,864 Speaker 5: on their own and knowing that I have done, you know, 466 00:25:33,944 --> 00:25:38,464 Speaker 5: a few years of researching it, experiencing it, I think 467 00:25:38,544 --> 00:25:42,344 Speaker 5: that puts them on a fast track of feeling, you know, 468 00:25:42,464 --> 00:25:46,744 Speaker 5: a little bit more comfortable in the beginning of that way. 469 00:25:46,944 --> 00:25:49,064 Speaker 1: For actors, just back to your career for a second. 470 00:25:49,104 --> 00:25:54,264 Speaker 6: For actors, it seems like from the outside there's two types. 471 00:25:54,384 --> 00:26:01,744 Speaker 6: There's celebrities and there's actors. And with actors, from my perspective, 472 00:26:02,744 --> 00:26:05,064 Speaker 6: it seems like they you don't know a lot about 473 00:26:05,104 --> 00:26:08,784 Speaker 6: their private life. They don't do necessarily a lot of press, 474 00:26:08,824 --> 00:26:12,584 Speaker 6: they don't post a lot on social It's about disappearing 475 00:26:12,584 --> 00:26:16,064 Speaker 6: into the work. And that does seem to be like 476 00:26:16,104 --> 00:26:18,584 Speaker 6: a choice. And again no judgment on either choice, but 477 00:26:18,624 --> 00:26:21,824 Speaker 6: they do seem to be different kind of paths. And 478 00:26:23,064 --> 00:26:25,424 Speaker 6: I was so interested to see a few years ago 479 00:26:25,704 --> 00:26:30,424 Speaker 6: when you started talking about menopause, it wasn't just coming 480 00:26:30,464 --> 00:26:33,304 Speaker 6: out as a menopause a woman, but it was also 481 00:26:33,504 --> 00:26:36,064 Speaker 6: making a different choice. I'm going to allow the public 482 00:26:36,464 --> 00:26:39,584 Speaker 6: to know me as Naomi more than just. 483 00:26:39,864 --> 00:26:41,144 Speaker 1: The character that I play. 484 00:26:42,024 --> 00:26:44,624 Speaker 6: I was so fascinated by that decision and why you 485 00:26:44,704 --> 00:26:46,344 Speaker 6: made it at that time in your life. 486 00:26:47,424 --> 00:26:48,384 Speaker 4: I think it didn't. 487 00:26:48,384 --> 00:26:51,784 Speaker 5: It happen with COVID, you know, where we were all 488 00:26:51,824 --> 00:26:54,784 Speaker 5: trying to connect with each other, whether that was on 489 00:26:54,824 --> 00:27:00,624 Speaker 5: Instagram and being foolish or putting some message across that 490 00:27:00,864 --> 00:27:07,504 Speaker 5: was hopefully connecting women with other women. I think, and 491 00:27:07,624 --> 00:27:12,344 Speaker 5: certainly the idea to launch stripes happened at the beginning 492 00:27:12,384 --> 00:27:15,384 Speaker 5: of COVID. It was something I'd been percolating, but like 493 00:27:15,424 --> 00:27:17,384 Speaker 5: I said, I didn't have the courage to go forward. 494 00:27:17,504 --> 00:27:21,544 Speaker 5: But when we were all stuck at home with nothing 495 00:27:21,544 --> 00:27:26,064 Speaker 5: but our ideas and our family and you know, dreams. Basically, 496 00:27:26,264 --> 00:27:29,024 Speaker 5: that's when I started to really formulate and just go, 497 00:27:30,064 --> 00:27:31,384 Speaker 5: you know, fuck this, why not? 498 00:27:31,664 --> 00:27:31,984 Speaker 2: Why not? 499 00:27:33,344 --> 00:27:35,064 Speaker 1: The story of how you and Billy met. 500 00:27:35,224 --> 00:27:39,224 Speaker 6: I had never asked you guys about your origin story before. 501 00:27:39,984 --> 00:27:42,504 Speaker 6: I love people's origin stories. But what I didn't realize 502 00:27:42,544 --> 00:27:47,064 Speaker 6: is that you had met on a job and that 503 00:27:47,104 --> 00:27:50,784 Speaker 6: you'd actually played lovers. 504 00:27:50,504 --> 00:27:55,024 Speaker 1: And that you'd had sex scenes together. Acting is so weird. 505 00:27:55,064 --> 00:27:55,664 Speaker 1: It's so weird. 506 00:27:55,704 --> 00:27:59,784 Speaker 7: It stretched jobs, wearing people loads, seeing other people. 507 00:27:59,624 --> 00:28:01,904 Speaker 1: So weird, and you were like we'd been dry humping. 508 00:28:01,944 --> 00:28:05,024 Speaker 6: But I just recently ended my long term relationship with 509 00:28:05,464 --> 00:28:07,784 Speaker 6: the father of my children, and I wasn't. 510 00:28:08,024 --> 00:28:11,104 Speaker 1: It didn't occur to me like can you, like, how 511 00:28:11,144 --> 00:28:11,464 Speaker 1: does it? 512 00:28:12,464 --> 00:28:16,784 Speaker 6: How does it change from oh, we're just dry humping, and. 513 00:28:17,024 --> 00:28:22,944 Speaker 5: Like how you get to know that person? It's the 514 00:28:22,984 --> 00:28:27,304 Speaker 5: in between moments. It's not the dry humping. Although there 515 00:28:27,384 --> 00:28:29,784 Speaker 5: was a moment after we'd got to know each. 516 00:28:29,624 --> 00:28:32,344 Speaker 7: Other, which was several months of sitting. 517 00:28:32,024 --> 00:28:36,624 Speaker 5: Around talking about you know, any list of things, whether 518 00:28:36,664 --> 00:28:43,224 Speaker 5: it was kids or acting or you know, business travel. 519 00:28:43,424 --> 00:28:47,344 Speaker 5: You know, we covered everything in these sometimes hour long 520 00:28:47,624 --> 00:28:51,864 Speaker 5: lighting setups, and we just got along. And you notice 521 00:28:51,904 --> 00:28:56,344 Speaker 5: how someone works with other people, not just your connectivity, 522 00:28:56,384 --> 00:29:00,984 Speaker 5: but how they treat other people, how people respond to them. 523 00:29:01,224 --> 00:29:03,304 Speaker 5: You know, you learn a lot about each other through 524 00:29:03,944 --> 00:29:05,784 Speaker 5: you know, twelve fourteen hour days. 525 00:29:05,824 --> 00:29:09,264 Speaker 6: Sometimes does it start off as like because of the 526 00:29:09,304 --> 00:29:15,904 Speaker 6: physical intimacy? Is it sometimes like any other connection, It's 527 00:29:15,944 --> 00:29:18,544 Speaker 6: like sometimes small talk and then sometimes you really get 528 00:29:18,544 --> 00:29:20,704 Speaker 6: to know someone and it goes deeper or do you 529 00:29:20,744 --> 00:29:23,224 Speaker 6: just go straight to the deeper because you're already kind 530 00:29:23,224 --> 00:29:25,424 Speaker 6: of dry humping, so it's a bit of a shortcut. 531 00:29:27,224 --> 00:29:33,304 Speaker 4: Oh gosh, Mia, we're both consummate professionals. 532 00:29:33,544 --> 00:29:39,024 Speaker 5: I mean, Billy, really, seriously, is there for the work 533 00:29:39,264 --> 00:29:44,264 Speaker 5: and then I think, yes, some gentle, nice, friendly conversations 534 00:29:44,344 --> 00:29:50,344 Speaker 5: developed over time, and then when later when we saw 535 00:29:50,384 --> 00:29:52,864 Speaker 5: each other, and by the way, we did meet here 536 00:29:52,904 --> 00:29:56,144 Speaker 5: and there throughout New York, but that was when we 537 00:29:56,184 --> 00:29:58,584 Speaker 5: came to know each other properly on the set of Gypsy. 538 00:29:59,304 --> 00:30:03,664 Speaker 5: Later outside of work, we had friends who were scheming, 539 00:30:03,944 --> 00:30:05,624 Speaker 5: who were trying to put us together. 540 00:30:05,864 --> 00:30:09,824 Speaker 4: And that's when you learn even more. 541 00:30:09,624 --> 00:30:12,784 Speaker 5: About each other, not just who they are in the workplace, 542 00:30:13,024 --> 00:30:17,264 Speaker 5: how they interact. But that's when I think the door, 543 00:30:17,384 --> 00:30:20,104 Speaker 5: the crack of the door opened and the boundaries sort 544 00:30:20,104 --> 00:30:20,664 Speaker 5: of slightly. 545 00:30:21,304 --> 00:30:22,584 Speaker 1: She's looking for it. 546 00:30:23,424 --> 00:30:24,864 Speaker 4: I was not looking for it. 547 00:30:24,944 --> 00:30:29,344 Speaker 5: And you know, though we'd been separated for a good year, 548 00:30:29,704 --> 00:30:32,664 Speaker 5: we'd only just officially announced it and told the kids. 549 00:30:32,664 --> 00:30:37,784 Speaker 5: So I certainly wasn't in any you know, by any 550 00:30:37,824 --> 00:30:41,584 Speaker 5: means looking to partner up with anyone. And it was 551 00:30:41,624 --> 00:30:45,064 Speaker 5: a very very slow start. 552 00:30:45,104 --> 00:30:45,984 Speaker 1: For a lot of us. 553 00:30:46,144 --> 00:30:48,744 Speaker 6: We go through for those people who are in long 554 00:30:48,824 --> 00:30:52,424 Speaker 6: term relationships. A lot of women go through menopause with 555 00:30:52,584 --> 00:30:56,944 Speaker 6: the person who knew them before. So it's kind of 556 00:30:57,344 --> 00:30:59,784 Speaker 6: which is it provides its own challenges, But there's a 557 00:30:59,824 --> 00:31:04,584 Speaker 6: certain I don't know, safety in not having to come 558 00:31:04,624 --> 00:31:07,584 Speaker 6: out to sort of have it happen to someone who's 559 00:31:07,664 --> 00:31:08,944 Speaker 6: known you for a long time. 560 00:31:10,824 --> 00:31:13,944 Speaker 1: On the other side of it, and you're dating someone. 561 00:31:14,624 --> 00:31:17,184 Speaker 6: Can you talk about that that first night when you 562 00:31:17,224 --> 00:31:21,304 Speaker 6: came home and with the patches? Yeah, and what went 563 00:31:21,344 --> 00:31:22,064 Speaker 6: through your mind? 564 00:31:22,704 --> 00:31:24,384 Speaker 4: It was mortifying And. 565 00:31:26,144 --> 00:31:30,504 Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm always going to go very carefully. So I 566 00:31:30,544 --> 00:31:34,984 Speaker 5: already had carried the shame in private for quite some time. 567 00:31:35,584 --> 00:31:40,904 Speaker 5: So to begin, you know, exchanging touchy feely moments with 568 00:31:41,824 --> 00:31:46,144 Speaker 5: somebody was quite scary. I didn't know how my body 569 00:31:46,664 --> 00:31:53,024 Speaker 5: was working so much anymore. And I, yeah, this patch. 570 00:31:53,824 --> 00:31:57,264 Speaker 5: There's many different ways to take hormone replacement therapy. 571 00:31:57,264 --> 00:31:57,664 Speaker 4: As you know. 572 00:31:58,264 --> 00:32:00,464 Speaker 5: At this point in time, I was on the patch, 573 00:32:00,584 --> 00:32:03,664 Speaker 5: and if anyone's taken the patch before you know, it 574 00:32:03,784 --> 00:32:05,664 Speaker 5: leaves a nasty spear yeap. 575 00:32:06,424 --> 00:32:09,544 Speaker 1: Yeah like that you have to like scrub off. I 576 00:32:09,544 --> 00:32:11,384 Speaker 1: can't give a dog told you to take it off 577 00:32:11,384 --> 00:32:12,304 Speaker 1: with car oil. 578 00:32:12,944 --> 00:32:14,784 Speaker 4: Yeah, he was like, it's the only thing that works. 579 00:32:15,064 --> 00:32:18,144 Speaker 5: So I, yeah, I got caught up in the moment 580 00:32:18,504 --> 00:32:22,064 Speaker 5: and had to excuse myself. And again, this is in 581 00:32:22,104 --> 00:32:24,184 Speaker 5: the book, which is why I feel like I'm okay 582 00:32:24,224 --> 00:32:29,384 Speaker 5: telling it. Billy has signed off on it. But yeah, 583 00:32:30,344 --> 00:32:33,904 Speaker 5: I couldn't get not just I took off the patch, 584 00:32:33,944 --> 00:32:36,024 Speaker 5: but the mark. And I was just in there for 585 00:32:36,144 --> 00:32:40,304 Speaker 5: ages trying to, you know, get rid of any trace, 586 00:32:40,424 --> 00:32:42,904 Speaker 5: like he would think this would what was wrong with you? 587 00:32:42,984 --> 00:32:44,384 Speaker 5: What's that all over your body? 588 00:32:44,464 --> 00:32:46,064 Speaker 6: You know? How did you feel you had to take 589 00:32:46,104 --> 00:32:48,544 Speaker 6: off the patch because because if someone. 590 00:32:48,384 --> 00:32:49,864 Speaker 1: He was going to see you naked? 591 00:32:50,944 --> 00:32:52,824 Speaker 4: Yeah, this is the end. 592 00:32:52,984 --> 00:32:57,464 Speaker 5: I'm only here, you know, like as an aging woman, 593 00:32:57,784 --> 00:32:59,624 Speaker 5: I'm not going to be able to I mean, we 594 00:32:59,664 --> 00:33:02,184 Speaker 5: hadn't even had those kind of discussions about, you know, 595 00:33:03,024 --> 00:33:05,584 Speaker 5: would he want to extend his family or anything. 596 00:33:05,624 --> 00:33:08,424 Speaker 6: So ready in your forties though, So this is so 597 00:33:08,464 --> 00:33:10,184 Speaker 6: interesting about the shame that you carried. 598 00:33:10,424 --> 00:33:13,304 Speaker 1: It's not like it would have been a shock. 599 00:33:14,264 --> 00:33:17,824 Speaker 4: No, I know, but it's just it's how you felt. 600 00:33:18,264 --> 00:33:23,224 Speaker 5: Yeah, it's a shame yourself, and it's my fault. I 601 00:33:23,264 --> 00:33:26,344 Speaker 5: did this to myself. I brought myself onto menopause early 602 00:33:26,464 --> 00:33:29,064 Speaker 5: because I did X Y Z you know. 603 00:33:29,064 --> 00:33:32,584 Speaker 6: And you needed to literally scrub away the signs that 604 00:33:32,664 --> 00:33:34,624 Speaker 6: you were not no longer fertile. 605 00:33:35,384 --> 00:33:37,944 Speaker 4: Yes, yes, can you imagine? 606 00:33:38,384 --> 00:33:40,864 Speaker 1: And I literally am, I actually can. 607 00:33:40,864 --> 00:33:43,704 Speaker 5: Came out after being in there for far too long 608 00:33:43,864 --> 00:33:47,104 Speaker 5: without seeming completely weird on the other side of the door, 609 00:33:47,904 --> 00:33:50,064 Speaker 5: and it was like, is everything okay? 610 00:33:50,464 --> 00:33:52,064 Speaker 4: And and I. 611 00:33:52,184 --> 00:33:59,624 Speaker 5: Just was like yes, well no, but yes, And I 612 00:33:59,664 --> 00:34:03,264 Speaker 5: was just in there. Look, I'm in menopause. Should I 613 00:34:03,384 --> 00:34:06,664 Speaker 5: just leave? I'm sure this is going to be Oh. 614 00:34:06,784 --> 00:34:07,384 Speaker 1: What you got? 615 00:34:08,504 --> 00:34:12,504 Speaker 7: And and he was like, right, because like we're just 616 00:34:12,504 --> 00:34:13,104 Speaker 7: getting started. 617 00:34:13,224 --> 00:34:14,144 Speaker 5: Why end? 618 00:34:14,384 --> 00:34:17,344 Speaker 6: Well, you know, And then he says something lovely to 619 00:34:17,384 --> 00:34:19,544 Speaker 6: you which we're not going to talk about, but that's 620 00:34:19,584 --> 00:34:22,864 Speaker 6: in the book that made you feel in that moment 621 00:34:23,504 --> 00:34:26,624 Speaker 6: so safe and clearly it's like it. 622 00:34:26,704 --> 00:34:28,024 Speaker 1: Unlocked something in you. 623 00:34:29,704 --> 00:34:33,184 Speaker 6: That just gave you the confidence to not just be 624 00:34:33,304 --> 00:34:35,544 Speaker 6: comfortable with him, but be comfortable with the world. 625 00:34:35,584 --> 00:34:36,904 Speaker 1: I mean, that's an incredible gift. 626 00:34:37,944 --> 00:34:38,304 Speaker 4: It is. 627 00:34:39,784 --> 00:34:44,384 Speaker 5: It was a level of safety that not only did 628 00:34:44,424 --> 00:34:47,664 Speaker 5: I want, I really really needed. 629 00:34:48,344 --> 00:34:51,744 Speaker 4: And it was, like, you say, a powerful gift. 630 00:34:54,504 --> 00:34:57,744 Speaker 6: The rest of my conversation with Naomi, we talk about 631 00:34:57,784 --> 00:35:01,744 Speaker 6: beauty and botox and the surgery she will and won't 632 00:35:01,744 --> 00:35:04,264 Speaker 6: have lots more after this short break. 633 00:35:10,384 --> 00:35:11,184 Speaker 1: We talk about. 634 00:35:10,984 --> 00:35:14,744 Speaker 6: Aging as well, and it's something that we all I mean, 635 00:35:14,784 --> 00:35:18,744 Speaker 6: aging is exhausting, Naomi, like it's even for someone whose 636 00:35:19,024 --> 00:35:23,144 Speaker 6: faces are not connected without work at all. It just 637 00:35:23,184 --> 00:35:25,344 Speaker 6: feels like there are so many choices to make. Do 638 00:35:25,424 --> 00:35:26,104 Speaker 6: I get botox? 639 00:35:26,144 --> 00:35:26,464 Speaker 1: Do I not? 640 00:35:26,544 --> 00:35:28,304 Speaker 6: How much do I get? How often do I get it? 641 00:35:28,344 --> 00:35:29,224 Speaker 6: Do I get a bit of filler? 642 00:35:29,264 --> 00:35:29,704 Speaker 1: Do I do this? 643 00:35:29,784 --> 00:35:31,584 Speaker 6: Do it? And all these different treatments and all these 644 00:35:31,584 --> 00:35:33,944 Speaker 6: things you can try, and all the money, and then 645 00:35:33,984 --> 00:35:37,704 Speaker 6: do I go on a zempic? Like it does feel 646 00:35:37,744 --> 00:35:41,544 Speaker 6: completely exhausting? How do you personally navigate all of those 647 00:35:41,624 --> 00:35:44,544 Speaker 6: choices when you are so under scrutiny. 648 00:35:45,344 --> 00:35:51,384 Speaker 5: I like, I'm obsessed with knowing everything, researching it, taking consultations, 649 00:35:51,464 --> 00:35:53,184 Speaker 5: even talking to friends. 650 00:35:53,584 --> 00:35:56,304 Speaker 4: What if wait you did this? You did what? Okay? 651 00:35:56,344 --> 00:35:58,344 Speaker 4: And what was the recovery? How was it? You know? 652 00:35:59,064 --> 00:36:03,344 Speaker 5: And I've certainly experimented with little bits and pieces were 653 00:36:03,424 --> 00:36:03,904 Speaker 5: in there. 654 00:36:04,744 --> 00:36:06,024 Speaker 4: I say this in the book. 655 00:36:06,704 --> 00:36:11,184 Speaker 5: For now, I'm going to just tolerate my jowls, and 656 00:36:11,224 --> 00:36:14,104 Speaker 5: hopefully you will too for now, you know? Yeah, yeah, 657 00:36:14,384 --> 00:36:19,344 Speaker 5: now on camera and hope to you know, for Jesus 658 00:36:19,424 --> 00:36:23,584 Speaker 5: that the DP has enough talent that he can light me. 659 00:36:23,584 --> 00:36:25,264 Speaker 1: Well the director of photography? 660 00:36:25,824 --> 00:36:29,224 Speaker 6: Yeah, do you feel vulnerable when you go onto a set? 661 00:36:29,384 --> 00:36:32,104 Speaker 6: Or I don't know how these things happen like cast, 662 00:36:32,464 --> 00:36:34,664 Speaker 6: not that you'd have to audition for anything anymore, but 663 00:36:35,424 --> 00:36:37,704 Speaker 6: it must feel vulnerable, like in the makeup chair with 664 00:36:37,824 --> 00:36:40,704 Speaker 6: the director or the director of photography. 665 00:36:41,744 --> 00:36:42,984 Speaker 4: Yeah, for sure. 666 00:36:43,544 --> 00:36:46,544 Speaker 5: And I always, you know, I try to just get 667 00:36:46,584 --> 00:36:49,064 Speaker 5: ahead of it, like you know, in the best way. 668 00:36:49,104 --> 00:36:52,784 Speaker 5: I just often go over to the DPDP in Australia 669 00:36:53,464 --> 00:36:56,064 Speaker 5: and say, hey, these are not my friend and they're 670 00:36:56,064 --> 00:36:57,544 Speaker 5: not going to be your friend either. 671 00:36:57,824 --> 00:37:00,664 Speaker 4: So these little gowjowls. 672 00:37:00,064 --> 00:37:02,904 Speaker 5: Here, they create pockets and if you can help me out. 673 00:37:03,504 --> 00:37:06,304 Speaker 5: And it's not always you know, bounce that I need. 674 00:37:06,344 --> 00:37:08,864 Speaker 5: I need a negative light. You know, I've learned, you know, 675 00:37:08,944 --> 00:37:11,944 Speaker 5: I know, I know the tricks and you know, it's 676 00:37:11,984 --> 00:37:14,064 Speaker 5: see there was a time where I would think, oh, 677 00:37:14,424 --> 00:37:17,144 Speaker 5: I can't believe that actress spoke to the DP or 678 00:37:17,144 --> 00:37:18,144 Speaker 5: the director like that. 679 00:37:18,144 --> 00:37:21,144 Speaker 4: That's but you know, we we have to do that. 680 00:37:21,144 --> 00:37:23,864 Speaker 5: To look after ourselves, and especially when you're working on 681 00:37:23,984 --> 00:37:25,784 Speaker 5: a low budget movie. 682 00:37:25,704 --> 00:37:26,944 Speaker 7: Yeah, and you. 683 00:37:26,824 --> 00:37:32,184 Speaker 5: Know everyone's fighting time and so you know, or things 684 00:37:32,224 --> 00:37:33,424 Speaker 5: get fixed later on. 685 00:37:33,584 --> 00:37:35,784 Speaker 4: Amazing things that can happen in post. 686 00:37:36,264 --> 00:37:39,664 Speaker 5: But I want to try and put as much as 687 00:37:39,704 --> 00:37:44,424 Speaker 5: I can the message forward that it's okay, it's okay 688 00:37:44,504 --> 00:37:48,664 Speaker 5: to age. It's it's it's a privilege, and you know 689 00:37:48,864 --> 00:37:51,544 Speaker 5: it is uncomfortable. It's not for the faint of heart. 690 00:37:52,144 --> 00:37:55,504 Speaker 5: But it's okay to do nothing, and it's okay to 691 00:37:55,584 --> 00:37:59,264 Speaker 5: do lots of things if you want to, whatever suits 692 00:37:59,264 --> 00:37:59,864 Speaker 5: your fancy. 693 00:38:00,424 --> 00:38:02,064 Speaker 4: And I'm not swearing off it. 694 00:38:02,144 --> 00:38:04,824 Speaker 5: By the way, there may be a where I say 695 00:38:05,904 --> 00:38:08,784 Speaker 5: never say never. And I say this in the book 696 00:38:08,864 --> 00:38:11,984 Speaker 5: Marie Condy, who was like everything had to be exactly 697 00:38:11,984 --> 00:38:14,344 Speaker 5: in place until she had three kids, and then she 698 00:38:14,544 --> 00:38:18,144 Speaker 5: changed her whole narrative because who can have everything ant 699 00:38:18,304 --> 00:38:22,624 Speaker 5: exact precision when you've got kids flying around the place. Well, 700 00:38:22,664 --> 00:38:27,744 Speaker 5: the same goes for me. I'd like to promote healthy aging, 701 00:38:28,304 --> 00:38:30,304 Speaker 5: but at the same time, if they come up with 702 00:38:30,344 --> 00:38:34,984 Speaker 5: something that makes me feel so much better than I 703 00:38:35,104 --> 00:38:35,904 Speaker 5: might just do it. 704 00:38:36,664 --> 00:38:38,704 Speaker 6: I want to ask you two more questions. The first 705 00:38:38,864 --> 00:38:42,184 Speaker 6: is about grief, because that's something that takes. 706 00:38:41,944 --> 00:38:43,224 Speaker 1: A lot of us by surprise. 707 00:38:43,584 --> 00:38:49,464 Speaker 6: I was going through perimenopause and menopause also through COVID. 708 00:38:49,144 --> 00:38:51,264 Speaker 1: And I would go for these walks and I would 709 00:38:51,344 --> 00:38:54,584 Speaker 1: just cry. Every day. I would cry and I couldn't. 710 00:38:54,624 --> 00:38:58,544 Speaker 6: My son had moved out of home and I couldn't 711 00:38:58,584 --> 00:39:00,424 Speaker 6: really work out why I was crying. I thought it 712 00:39:00,504 --> 00:39:03,584 Speaker 6: was about that, and now looking back, I realized that 713 00:39:03,664 --> 00:39:06,624 Speaker 6: I was grieving. I was in this transition process between 714 00:39:07,664 --> 00:39:11,184 Speaker 6: you know, menopause and perimenopause is a transition, right reverse puberty, 715 00:39:11,584 --> 00:39:12,104 Speaker 6: and I was. 716 00:39:12,144 --> 00:39:13,704 Speaker 1: Grieving for. 717 00:39:15,024 --> 00:39:19,064 Speaker 6: What I was leaving behind. What was your experience of grief? 718 00:39:20,624 --> 00:39:24,144 Speaker 5: Yeah, and you know, there's the physiological side of things 719 00:39:24,224 --> 00:39:29,344 Speaker 5: and then there's the emotional side. And I remember actually 720 00:39:29,944 --> 00:39:35,344 Speaker 5: when I had my first baby, that drop in hormones 721 00:39:35,824 --> 00:39:38,664 Speaker 5: and when you start, you leave the hospital and you're 722 00:39:38,744 --> 00:39:41,744 Speaker 5: just sobbing and you have no idea why you've got 723 00:39:41,784 --> 00:39:46,384 Speaker 5: this beautiful baby, and you're like, I don't understand what's happening, 724 00:39:46,944 --> 00:39:50,944 Speaker 5: Like anything could make me cry. So there's that when 725 00:39:51,304 --> 00:39:55,424 Speaker 5: when you're through peri metopause, this like the hormones just 726 00:39:55,464 --> 00:39:59,384 Speaker 5: suddenly flood out of your body. As well as yes, 727 00:39:59,544 --> 00:40:04,184 Speaker 5: you're grieving this change, this transition. You're a different you 728 00:40:04,904 --> 00:40:06,664 Speaker 5: and you're not young anymore. 729 00:40:07,264 --> 00:40:09,664 Speaker 4: How do you how do you walk through. 730 00:40:09,464 --> 00:40:15,184 Speaker 5: This next period your life as this new you? And 731 00:40:15,224 --> 00:40:20,584 Speaker 5: it's it can be scary. And the saving grace for 732 00:40:20,744 --> 00:40:25,264 Speaker 5: me has been through connecting with other women and sharing 733 00:40:25,744 --> 00:40:30,784 Speaker 5: my deepest, darkest secrets, my truth and knowing that we're 734 00:40:30,824 --> 00:40:34,824 Speaker 5: not alone and and we grieve all the time every 735 00:40:34,904 --> 00:40:38,064 Speaker 5: day is there is a little version of grief from 736 00:40:38,104 --> 00:40:41,544 Speaker 5: beginning to the end of our lives. And it doesn't 737 00:40:41,624 --> 00:40:45,664 Speaker 5: have to look like a death in the family or 738 00:40:45,944 --> 00:40:51,104 Speaker 5: a friend, or it's it's losing a job, or it's 739 00:40:51,624 --> 00:40:55,104 Speaker 5: saying goodbye to your parents because you're leaving the country, 740 00:40:55,224 --> 00:40:58,984 Speaker 5: or you know, any big or small way there is 741 00:40:59,064 --> 00:41:04,384 Speaker 5: grief involved. And crying we talk about this in the 742 00:41:04,424 --> 00:41:06,664 Speaker 5: book is so cathartic. 743 00:41:06,944 --> 00:41:08,024 Speaker 4: It's free therapy. 744 00:41:08,904 --> 00:41:13,424 Speaker 6: I love how you said that crying is free therapy. 745 00:41:13,464 --> 00:41:15,864 Speaker 6: I'd never thought about it like that. And you know, 746 00:41:15,984 --> 00:41:19,744 Speaker 6: you also talk about the non free therapy, that the 747 00:41:19,824 --> 00:41:21,944 Speaker 6: paid kind of therapy, which is also really I know. 748 00:41:22,264 --> 00:41:24,824 Speaker 7: I'm not a big crier, Like yeah, it's interesting. 749 00:41:25,384 --> 00:41:27,624 Speaker 5: You know, people see my movies and think, oh, wow, 750 00:41:27,704 --> 00:41:32,624 Speaker 5: she must be an emotional wreck, but I'm pretty stoic. 751 00:41:32,424 --> 00:41:35,504 Speaker 1: And playful, which is something that as. 752 00:41:35,544 --> 00:41:38,424 Speaker 7: Yes, it's another way of getting away from the grief. 753 00:41:38,624 --> 00:41:41,784 Speaker 4: So yeah, but it is another version of that. 754 00:41:41,904 --> 00:41:45,904 Speaker 5: It is like sharing something that you're afraid to feel. 755 00:41:47,464 --> 00:41:51,664 Speaker 5: But I think you know the book the Company strikes, 756 00:41:51,704 --> 00:41:53,984 Speaker 5: beauty and my movie career. 757 00:41:54,064 --> 00:41:56,024 Speaker 4: They're all kind of a meshed. 758 00:41:56,144 --> 00:42:01,984 Speaker 5: They're all about hopefully giving people permission to feel something. 759 00:42:02,864 --> 00:42:04,504 Speaker 1: It's very generous what you've done. 760 00:42:05,304 --> 00:42:05,744 Speaker 4: Thank you. 761 00:42:06,544 --> 00:42:09,784 Speaker 1: It is, no, it is very generous. My last question 762 00:42:10,064 --> 00:42:12,464 Speaker 1: is about what are the good bits. 763 00:42:13,144 --> 00:42:17,304 Speaker 5: I would say, you know, the women finding those women 764 00:42:17,624 --> 00:42:20,264 Speaker 5: and they're they're the ones that you've known for a 765 00:42:20,304 --> 00:42:23,584 Speaker 5: long time, that you've brought through decades. 766 00:42:24,184 --> 00:42:26,224 Speaker 4: That just gets deeper and deeper, and. 767 00:42:26,184 --> 00:42:29,744 Speaker 5: Then there's actually room for new ones, which is I 768 00:42:29,784 --> 00:42:32,704 Speaker 5: never would have thought that I could create friendships after 769 00:42:33,504 --> 00:42:36,584 Speaker 5: my forties, with my life as full as it is, 770 00:42:36,664 --> 00:42:40,864 Speaker 5: but I still have room. I'm still making great connections 771 00:42:40,864 --> 00:42:46,464 Speaker 5: with women who have similar stories. So I would say, yeah, 772 00:42:46,504 --> 00:42:50,024 Speaker 5: they're my teachers. None of the women around me are that. 773 00:42:50,184 --> 00:42:55,784 Speaker 5: They're not suffering fools. They're smart, they're funny, they're adventurous. 774 00:42:56,544 --> 00:43:00,504 Speaker 5: So I'm really proud of those. And yeah, getting honest 775 00:43:00,584 --> 00:43:06,184 Speaker 5: in your relationship communication is everything. It's the gateway too 776 00:43:06,544 --> 00:43:10,224 Speaker 5: far less suffering and not just in your relationship at work, 777 00:43:10,864 --> 00:43:13,784 Speaker 5: you know. And I'm so glad that all of this 778 00:43:13,824 --> 00:43:17,584 Speaker 5: has led to, you know, more ease with the conversation 779 00:43:17,744 --> 00:43:22,224 Speaker 5: surrounding menopause, you know. And I've had experiences where I'm 780 00:43:22,264 --> 00:43:24,584 Speaker 5: stopped on the streets now me and this is one 781 00:43:24,624 --> 00:43:27,464 Speaker 5: of the good bits where I think, oh god, I 782 00:43:27,504 --> 00:43:29,824 Speaker 5: haven't got my lippyon. They're going to want a selfie, 783 00:43:30,904 --> 00:43:33,464 Speaker 5: you know, because of a movie in me or something, 784 00:43:33,504 --> 00:43:36,144 Speaker 5: and they say, I just want you to know. I 785 00:43:36,304 --> 00:43:39,104 Speaker 5: had a conversation with my husband and I never thought 786 00:43:39,104 --> 00:43:40,464 Speaker 5: I'd be able to talk about it. 787 00:43:40,504 --> 00:43:41,624 Speaker 4: And it's all because of you. 788 00:43:42,104 --> 00:43:44,864 Speaker 5: Thank you, thank you for creating the dialogue. 789 00:43:44,904 --> 00:43:47,664 Speaker 4: And that is so meaningful to me. 790 00:43:47,824 --> 00:43:50,904 Speaker 5: That is, you know, just for one person, and that 791 00:43:51,024 --> 00:43:54,304 Speaker 5: one person might tell another person that is I feel 792 00:43:54,344 --> 00:43:58,104 Speaker 5: like my job has is done, and you know, I 793 00:43:58,104 --> 00:44:03,304 Speaker 5: feel proud of having taken the risk to sh all 794 00:44:03,344 --> 00:44:03,624 Speaker 5: of it. 795 00:44:03,904 --> 00:44:05,584 Speaker 1: So how are you so normal? 796 00:44:07,304 --> 00:44:07,544 Speaker 5: Am I? 797 00:44:07,584 --> 00:44:07,864 Speaker 4: Normal? 798 00:44:08,064 --> 00:44:14,824 Speaker 6: Howcome that stupidly normal? And it's like I've met a 799 00:44:14,824 --> 00:44:18,784 Speaker 6: lot of famous people, but it's like you're not famous. 800 00:44:18,864 --> 00:44:22,784 Speaker 6: They're different to you. And I've never seen anyone wear 801 00:44:22,784 --> 00:44:26,384 Speaker 6: their fame as lightly as you wear yours. And I've 802 00:44:26,384 --> 00:44:30,784 Speaker 6: been thinking a lot about that. And is it because 803 00:44:31,184 --> 00:44:34,704 Speaker 6: do you think you weren't famous when you were really 804 00:44:34,704 --> 00:44:37,864 Speaker 6: young and so you became you were a fully formed person. 805 00:44:38,184 --> 00:44:42,144 Speaker 6: People say you freeze at the age, right, Yeah, yeah. 806 00:44:41,984 --> 00:44:47,664 Speaker 5: I think I Nothing happened until thirty thirty one, so 807 00:44:47,784 --> 00:44:51,144 Speaker 5: I was fully formed. I've spent most of my life 808 00:44:51,304 --> 00:44:53,664 Speaker 5: not famous, although now it's getting. 809 00:44:53,384 --> 00:44:54,584 Speaker 1: It, it's getting half half. 810 00:44:55,224 --> 00:44:57,464 Speaker 7: Yeah. 811 00:44:57,704 --> 00:45:00,424 Speaker 5: The only time I would say I exploit my fame 812 00:45:00,624 --> 00:45:02,424 Speaker 5: is to get a restaurant at. 813 00:45:02,264 --> 00:45:04,864 Speaker 4: Table, you know, at a restaurant. That's when I might 814 00:45:05,104 --> 00:45:05,944 Speaker 4: call ahead and. 815 00:45:06,024 --> 00:45:10,544 Speaker 5: Hope, hope that that name might shift someone from no 816 00:45:10,704 --> 00:45:11,224 Speaker 5: to a yes. 817 00:45:12,144 --> 00:45:14,304 Speaker 1: Well, you are a gift. Your book is a gift. 818 00:45:14,344 --> 00:45:15,264 Speaker 1: Your work is a gift. 819 00:45:15,304 --> 00:45:17,504 Speaker 6: We haven't really spoken about your work, but I mean, 820 00:45:17,584 --> 00:45:20,704 Speaker 6: obviously watching this renaissance that you're having. 821 00:45:21,144 --> 00:45:22,824 Speaker 1: You've always worked steadily, but it. 822 00:45:22,824 --> 00:45:26,744 Speaker 6: Seems like, you know, you've become amused for Ryan Murphy 823 00:45:26,864 --> 00:45:29,424 Speaker 6: and people have been looking at you in a different way, 824 00:45:29,584 --> 00:45:33,264 Speaker 6: and you're getting to do the most extraordinary work, and 825 00:45:33,304 --> 00:45:35,424 Speaker 6: you just keep getting better and better on screen and 826 00:45:35,464 --> 00:45:39,504 Speaker 6: off it. So you know, I just thank you, thank 827 00:45:39,544 --> 00:45:41,584 Speaker 6: you for writing this book and being in the world. 828 00:45:42,584 --> 00:45:45,664 Speaker 4: Oh thanks Mia, thank you so much for having me. 829 00:45:48,104 --> 00:45:49,704 Speaker 1: See I told. 830 00:45:49,464 --> 00:45:52,944 Speaker 6: You that she was stupidly normal, isn't she delightful? She 831 00:45:53,024 --> 00:45:58,504 Speaker 6: just buzzes out of frequency that is very normal, like 832 00:45:58,584 --> 00:46:01,744 Speaker 6: the girlfriend that you've had for a really long time. 833 00:46:02,424 --> 00:46:04,904 Speaker 6: There are so many elements to Naomi's story that are 834 00:46:04,904 --> 00:46:07,624 Speaker 6: best left in her own words as she's written them, 835 00:46:07,744 --> 00:46:10,944 Speaker 6: Like she has this experience with sex to which made 836 00:46:10,984 --> 00:46:13,384 Speaker 6: me laugh so much that she wrote about So we've 837 00:46:13,384 --> 00:46:15,504 Speaker 6: popped the link to her book Dare I say it 838 00:46:15,784 --> 00:46:19,264 Speaker 6: in the show notes now the executive producer of No Filter. 839 00:46:19,384 --> 00:46:22,344 Speaker 6: His Nama Brown audio production is by Jacob Brown. And 840 00:46:22,384 --> 00:46:25,144 Speaker 6: I'm your host, Mia Friedman. Thanks for having me in 841 00:46:25,184 --> 00:46:25,704 Speaker 6: your ears.