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Speaker 1: You're listening to a Muma Mia podcast. Mamma Mia acknowledges

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Speaker 1: the traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast

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Speaker 1: is recorded on Hi. I'm Claire Murphy. This is Mumma

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Speaker 1: MIA's twice daily news podcast, The Quickie. Since the premiere

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Speaker 1: of the new movie It Ends with Us, Blake Lively

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Speaker 1: has been on the press tour from Hell, criticized for

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Speaker 1: her responses to questions, scolded for choosing now to launch

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Speaker 1: a haircare line when the movie content is so serious.

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Speaker 1: Past interviews are being resurfaced to claim her a real

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Speaker 1: life mean girl. So why is this happening? Is the

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Speaker 1: criticism warranted? Or is she just experiencing what so many

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Speaker 1: other women in Hollywood have? The time she gets pulled

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Speaker 1: from her pedestal, we break down the Blake Lively Justin

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Speaker 1: Baldoni feud and try to get a better understanding of

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Speaker 1: where Hollywood power now lies. But first let's get the

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Speaker 1: latest from the Quickie newsroom. Wednesday, August twenty one, the

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Speaker 1: Israeli military has recovered the bodies of six hostages taken

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Speaker 1: in the October seven attack that started the current war

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Speaker 1: in Gaza. The bodies of eighty year old's Chaimperi and Euromedga.

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Speaker 1: Seventy nine year old Avraham Munda, seventy six year old

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Speaker 1: Alexander Dancy, fifty one year old Nado of Popolwell and

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Speaker 1: thirty five year old Jagev Bushdav were retrieved in an

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Speaker 1: overnight operation in southern Gaza, the IDF saying they were

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Speaker 1: killed during a time when troops were operating in carn Unis.

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Speaker 1: Hamas says some captives have been killed in Israeli air strikes,

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Speaker 1: but returning hostages have revealed the struggle to survive in

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Speaker 1: the difficult conditions in captivity, including a lack of food

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Speaker 1: and medical care. The recovery is a blow to Hamas,

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Speaker 1: who were hoping to exchange hostages for more Palestinian prisoners

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Speaker 1: and Israeli withdrawal and a long term ceasefire. There are

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Speaker 1: urgent calls to roll up a sleeve, with blood donors

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Speaker 1: canceling at the highest rates in five years due to

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Speaker 1: suffering cold and flu symptoms. The drop off, which has

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Speaker 1: left as many as one thousand donor chairs empty each

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Speaker 1: week during winter, has led to the Australian Red Cross

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Speaker 1: putting out a call for eighty five hundred people over

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Speaker 1: the next week to drop into their nearest donor center

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Speaker 1: and help replenish stock. Every week Australian needs thirty three

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Speaker 1: thousand donations to meet demand. Lifeblood will struggle to meet

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Speaker 1: patient needs if cancelations continue and appointments aren't filled after

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Speaker 1: this period where cold and flu rates peak. With only

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Speaker 1: three percent of adult Ozzie's donating blood and plasma regularly

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Speaker 1: but fifty seven percent eligible to do so, it's estimated

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Speaker 1: there's an extra ten million people out there who could

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Speaker 1: help right now. Ozzi's in regional areas are leading complaints

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Speaker 1: to telcos in recent years, with fifty two thousand reports

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Speaker 1: about phone and internet service issues made since July twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty one. The telecommunications industry Onbardsman has told her review

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Speaker 1: into regional telecommunications that they understand that number may only

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Speaker 1: be the tip of the iceberg, with an estimated forty

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Speaker 1: six percent of Australians who experience a telco challenge in

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Speaker 1: the past twelve months not lodging a complaint. The cases

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Speaker 1: include a man living in a remote indigenous community who

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Speaker 1: waited six months to have his broken, unrepaired phone returned

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Speaker 1: to him after having to travel a significant distance to

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Speaker 1: his Telco's closest store to drop it off, and another

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Speaker 1: man who spent six hours stuck in his crashed vehicle

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Speaker 1: waiting for help, unable to call emergency services. With her

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Speaker 1: Olympic notoriety still following her, there are reports Ossie breakdownser

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Speaker 1: Raygun might head into the jungle. New Idea magazine is

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Speaker 1: reporting that Raygun is being courted by the producers of

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Speaker 1: I'm a Celebrity, Get Me out of Here to join

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Speaker 1: other stars of TV, music, comedy and sport living in

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Speaker 1: the African wilderness, their every moment caught on camera. Raygun

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Speaker 1: failed to win a single round of her breaking debut

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Speaker 1: in Paris, pulling out moves like the Sprinkler and the Kangaroo,

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Speaker 1: which captured the world's attention. Adele speaking about her at

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Speaker 1: her concert, and Jimmy Fallon imitating her in a sketch.

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Speaker 1: A stint in the jungle would come after she made

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Speaker 1: a surprise appearance at the Logis That's What's happening in

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Speaker 1: the world today?

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Speaker 2: Next?

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Speaker 1: Is Blake Lively really the worst woman in Hollywood right now?

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Speaker 1: Or is she experiencing what happens when women gain too

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Speaker 1: much power? When Colleen Hoover's twenty sixteen novel It Ends

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Speaker 1: with Us, a story of how a woman experiences domestic

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Speaker 1: violence and manages to come out the other side, received

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Speaker 1: such high levels of critical acclaim it wasn't surprising to

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Speaker 1: find out that it would be made into a movie.

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Speaker 1: In twenty nineteen, director and actor Justin Baldoni secured the

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Speaker 1: rights to the book, saying he had massive respect for Hoover,

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Speaker 1: and then Hoover was excited for him to take on

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Speaker 1: the challenge of adapting it to the screen.

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Speaker 2: And you love something so much, and when you're touched

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Speaker 2: and moved by something like as deeply as I was

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Speaker 2: by this book, it just kind of comes naturally. Yes,

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Speaker 2: this is a movie about love and hope, but that

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Speaker 2: we don't shy away from the issue.

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Speaker 1: Baldoni would not only direct and produce the movie, but

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Speaker 1: would also star as the emotionally and physically abusive Rale Kinkaid,

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Speaker 1: alongside the main character of the book, Lily Bloom played

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Speaker 1: Blake Lively. Now, all seemed fine, but when the press

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Speaker 1: tour began, it was evident that something had gone down

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Speaker 1: on the set. Baldoni was not doing any joint cast

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Speaker 1: interviews and none of them followed him on social media

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Speaker 1: despite or following each other. He attended separate screenings to

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Speaker 1: the rest of the cast and sat on separate panels

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Speaker 1: discussing it if they were required to be at the

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Speaker 1: same event. He would arrive after the rest of the

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Speaker 1: cast had walked to the red carpet, and there's not

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Speaker 1: been a single photo of all of them together. What

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Speaker 1: had Baldoni done to alienate the entire cast and crew

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Speaker 1: of this movie. No one was saying anything on the record,

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Speaker 1: but rumors started to spread that Lively had taken control

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Speaker 1: of the movie from Baldoni during filming, multiple sources saying

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Speaker 1: there'd been competing cuts of the film, with Baldoni's edits

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Speaker 1: scoring higher with the audience. Despite this, rumor has it

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Speaker 1: that Lively took over Baldoni's edit and was able to

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Speaker 1: do so because of the power she currently holds in Hollywood.

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Speaker 1: Alongside her equally his powerful husband, Ryan Reynolds. There were

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Speaker 1: stories that Reynolds was asked to help rewrite some scenes

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Speaker 1: while the friendship between Lively, Reynolds, and Hoover grew, putting

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Speaker 1: Baldoni on the sidelines to the point that he is

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Speaker 1: no longer listed as a producer in the credits. With

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Speaker 1: all this information pointing to Justin Baldoni being frozen out

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Speaker 1: of the process, stories started to circulate that Lively was

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Speaker 1: a closet mean girl. Journalist Kirsty Flower reposted her twenty

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Speaker 1: sixteen interview with The Star where Lively seemingly takes offense

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Speaker 1: to being congratulated on her pregnancy, which she had just

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Speaker 1: recently publicly announced, pointing out the interview almost made her

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Speaker 1: quit her job, as Lively almost ignored her for the

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Speaker 1: duration of the chat first.

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Speaker 3: All congrats on your little bomb.

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Speaker 4: Congrats on your little bump.

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Speaker 1: More and more stories of Lively's bad behavior began to circulate,

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Speaker 1: people upset that she spent more time focused on her

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Speaker 1: floral themed outfits than talking about the heavy topics from

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Speaker 1: the movie. Her handling of direct questions about domestic violence

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Speaker 1: were criticized, especially when compared to Baldoni seemingly more thoughtful

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Speaker 1: of the victim survivors' responses.

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Speaker 5: If a Lily Bloom in real life consider in this

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Speaker 5: theater and maybe make a different choice for herself than

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Speaker 5: was made for her, Maybe she sees herself on that

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Speaker 5: screen and chooses something prefer herself That's why I made

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Speaker 5: the movie.

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Speaker 4: So if someone understands the themes of this movie comes

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Speaker 4: across you in public and they want to really talk

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Speaker 4: to you, what's the best way for them to be

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Speaker 4: able to talk to you about this? How would you

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Speaker 4: recommend they go about it?

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Speaker 5: Like asking for my address or my phone number, or

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Speaker 5: like my location share or I could just location share you

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Speaker 5: and then we could.

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Speaker 1: Uh. But is this a case of one star's ego

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Speaker 1: gone wild? Or is it more that a woman is

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Speaker 1: now in place of power once reserved for Hollywood men,

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Speaker 1: and some don't like it. Laura Brodnick is Mamma May's

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Speaker 1: head of entertainment and the co host of our daily

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Speaker 1: pop culture podcast, This Spill Laura. Back when the Me

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Speaker 1: Too movement happened, we realized how much of a stronghold

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Speaker 1: men like Harvey Weinstein, for example, held over the careers

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Speaker 1: of stars. Is that still the case? Are these producers

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Speaker 1: still the gods of Hollywood? Or are the stars more

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Speaker 1: powerful now?

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Speaker 3: I think nowadays, now that so many celebrities have their

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Speaker 3: own personal brands and their own personal social media empires

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Speaker 3: and their own production companies, they have a bit more

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Speaker 3: power than celebrities from the last few decades because back

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Speaker 3: in the day, especially in Hollywood, there was a real

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Speaker 3: monopoly of just you know, kind of four big studios.

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Speaker 3: If you were in with those studios, you got work.

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Speaker 3: If you were out, there was nowhere else to go.

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Speaker 3: Now we've seen that dynamic change and there are a

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Speaker 3: few big power players, like someone like a Margo Robbie

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Speaker 3: or a Ryan Reynolds who have a lot of power

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Speaker 3: behind the scenes and are also very bankable stars. I

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Speaker 3: think being bankable is always going to be the biggest

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Speaker 3: power play. But we haven't moved away completely yet from

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Speaker 3: that monopoly of studios. So the biggest power players in

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Speaker 3: Hollywood are still the people that head up these multi

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Speaker 3: billion dollar studios. So someone like Bob Eiger, who is

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Speaker 3: the head of the Walt Disney Company. They obviously own

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Speaker 3: everything from IP to studios to streaming. Someone like Kevin

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Speaker 3: Fagey who's the president of Marvel Studios, who has made

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Speaker 3: over thirty billion dollars, They're still going to have more

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Speaker 3: power and more clout than a celebrity. But we are

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Speaker 3: seeing a few of those celebrity brands come into power

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Speaker 3: a bit more.

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Speaker 1: Well, you mentioned Ryan Reynolds there, and Deadpool and Wolverine

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Speaker 1: essentially has come out at the same time as Blake

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Speaker 1: Lively's movie. It ends with Us, and she's had crossovers

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Speaker 1: in his movie as well, She's Lady Deadpool. Their kids

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Speaker 1: made cameos in that movie. How much of all of

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Speaker 1: this could potentially be a PR move, Like how much

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Speaker 1: are Blake Lively and Ryan Reynolds sort of coming into

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Speaker 1: this as power players in Hollywood as opposed to say,

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Speaker 1: wanting to pull off major PR stunts to get more

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Speaker 1: people to go and see their movies.

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Speaker 3: Oh, everything about the way these two movies have been

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Speaker 3: released is very much looked at, not so much on

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Speaker 3: the artistic side of it, although there is that as well,

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Speaker 3: but they've more been released in a way that's very

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Speaker 3: centered on them as personal brands and their businesses away

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Speaker 3: from these movies, and how do they bring their businesses

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Speaker 3: into this to kind of capitalize on these two movies

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Speaker 3: coming out. So I don't think it's any coincidence that

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Speaker 3: they've been released in similar time frames. Also, the fact

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Speaker 3: that Deadpool came out first and that had a lot of,

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Speaker 3: you know, big celebrity cameos and a lot of goodwill,

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Speaker 3: a lot of fandom, and that was really kind of

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Speaker 3: setting the scene to lead into this Ends with US

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Speaker 3: press tour. We also saw crossovers like with Hugh Jackman,

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Speaker 3: who was in the new Deadpool movie, doing a big

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Speaker 3: Vogue cover and spread with Blake Lively, so it was

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Speaker 3: bringing these two movies together and trying to capture these

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Speaker 3: two audiences. We also saw Ryan Reynolds sort of promoting

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Speaker 3: a lot of his different businesses and his company and

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Speaker 3: his Gin company along the time he was doing the

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Speaker 3: Deadpool press and he and Blake doing a lot of

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Speaker 3: red carpets together, a lot of joint interviews. That was

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Speaker 3: really capitalizing on the love people have for them as

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Speaker 3: a couple. And then on top of that, you had

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Speaker 3: Blake Lively launching her new haircare brand, Blake Brown, at

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Speaker 3: the same time as this Ends with Us press tour

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Speaker 3: was kicking off, and that was done to kind of

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Speaker 3: capitalize on the fact that all eyes would be on

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Speaker 3: her to launch new business. So everything about this rollout

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Speaker 3: has been very centered around setting up their personal businesses

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Speaker 3: to have the same sort of fame as these movies

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Speaker 3: are going to have.

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Speaker 1: Some of the rumors that have been going around about

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Speaker 1: the fallout between Blake Lively and Justin Baldoni, is that

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Speaker 1: they sided with Blake Lively because she is holding the

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Speaker 1: power in this relationship. Now she's got backers who've come

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Speaker 1: in to help her make this movie work. She's taken

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Speaker 1: over essentially the final edit of this movie, and she's

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Speaker 1: been essentially named as potentially the director of any sequel

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Speaker 1: that comes from this. Do you think that Carlston Crue

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Speaker 1: had any choice but to back Lively in this situation,

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Speaker 1: because I mean, potentially it could mean work for them

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Speaker 1: down the track.

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Speaker 2: Oh.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely. I think in Hollywood especially, it's like any other

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Speaker 3: business where you really have to align yourself with the

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Speaker 3: person who you see is having the most power or

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Speaker 3: the safest bet and I think in this case it's

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Speaker 3: very much Blake Lively and Ryan Reynolds because they are,

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Speaker 3: you know, a power couple, and not only do they

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Speaker 3: have they're very well known for having a wide circle

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Speaker 3: of friends in Hollywood, but also they're very involved in

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Speaker 3: the production of their businesses. They have these huge kind

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Speaker 3: of companies behind them, a huge team. They also both

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Speaker 3: have a huge amount of social media presence and clout,

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Speaker 3: and so that's really going to overshadow someone like Justin Baldoni,

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Speaker 3: who I think before this a lot of people had

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Speaker 3: known him from his TV work. He's not a banner

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Speaker 3: director whose name you would put over the poster of

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Speaker 3: a movie and know that it's going to bring people in.

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Speaker 3: He's not at that stage yet. So if you're looking

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Speaker 3: for someone to side with, you would go with the

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Speaker 3: big power couple, who are kind of known for bringing

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Speaker 3: their friends into their projects and taking their friends on

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Speaker 3: red carpets with them and promoting their own projects. And

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Speaker 3: it has been said that some of the people people

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Speaker 3: who have worked on the movie have switched over to

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Speaker 3: the management team that will run things for Blake and

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Speaker 3: Ryan because they've had an introduction. They've kind of brought

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Speaker 3: them into the fold. And so I think if you're

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Speaker 3: going to side with someone, it doesn't make sense that

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Speaker 3: you would side with the power couple.

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Speaker 1: What role do you think misogyny is playing in the

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Speaker 1: treatment of Blake Lively during this press tour, because I

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Speaker 1: was wondering what impact it would have if we found

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Speaker 1: out that a male movie star, let's I don't know,

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Speaker 1: for example, say George Clooney was known to have taken

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Speaker 1: over the running of a movie in the background and

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Speaker 1: put his skills to work and did his final letter,

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Speaker 1: which is the one that finally gets up. Would we

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Speaker 1: be as upset with George Clooney as we are with

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Speaker 1: Blake Lively? And would we have painted George Clooney as

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Speaker 1: a mean boy as we've now painted Blake Lively as

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Speaker 1: a mean girl? No.

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Speaker 3: I think misogyny definitely plays a role here because why

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Speaker 3: this has taken off in such an extreme fashion and

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Speaker 3: why it's domaining algorithms and my old interviews being pulled

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Speaker 3: up and it's kind of been dressed up in a

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Speaker 3: very specific way, is that there's nothing that media outlets

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Speaker 3: and social media uses. There's nothing that brings on clicks

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Speaker 3: and traffic to websites and conversations more than someone who

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Speaker 3: is seen as a conventionally attractive, successful woman being kind

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Speaker 3: of having this downfall and kind of being seen to

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Speaker 3: have been tricking people or to being seen as something

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Speaker 3: that they're not. That always is going to bring across

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Speaker 3: the most kind of media coverage. And that's why I

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Speaker 3: think this has taken on a life of its own,

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Speaker 3: and it's something that we've seen time and time again,

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Speaker 3: probably more recently with the Amber Heard and Johnny Depp trial,

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Speaker 3: where you saw that algorithms and tweets and different stories

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Speaker 3: can influence the way people think because it's what they're

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Speaker 3: seeing their social media feeds flooded with. And so we're

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Speaker 3: seeing that so much now with Blake Lively, just because

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Speaker 3: it's what the algorithm favors. It's what people are clicking on,

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Speaker 3: what they're sharing, what they're using to kind of promote

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Speaker 3: their own platforms, and we don't see that quite as

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Speaker 3: much with male celebrities. We know that we can give

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Speaker 3: them a bit more of a pass because we're also

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Speaker 3: not critiquing kind of what they're wearing, how they're interacting

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Speaker 3: with their friends, what they've said in the past, and

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Speaker 3: having that emotional connection to characters. So all of these

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Speaker 3: things have really set her up to not come out

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Speaker 3: of this being as successful as she was going in.

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Speaker 1: Until Baldoni or Lively or both of them sit down

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Speaker 1: and hash this out publicly, we may never know exactly

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Speaker 1: what went down behind the scenes of it ends with us,

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Speaker 1: but what we do know is if they do make

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Speaker 1: a sequel, Baldoni probably won't be there.

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Speaker 5: I think there are better people for that one. I

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Speaker 5: think there are better people for that one. I think

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Speaker 5: Blake Live is ready to direct. That's what I think.

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Speaker 1: So thanks for tuning in today taking some time to

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Speaker 1: feed your mind. You can hear Laura's full Logi's Red

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Speaker 1: Carpet behind the scenes expose on the Spill this week.

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Speaker 1: Just check it out wherever you get your podcasts. The

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Speaker 1: Quickie is produced by me Claire Murphy and our senior

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Speaker 1: producer Taylor Strano, with production support from Telyissa Perzads. Audio

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Speaker 1: production by Jacob Brown.