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Speaker 1: You're listening to a Mom and mea podcast.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to Parenting out Loud, the podcast for people who

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Speaker 2: don't always listen to parenting podcasts. We unpack the news,

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Speaker 2: the trends, the culture, and what parents are thinking about.

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Speaker 2: I'm on a gollie.

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Speaker 1: I'm Amelia Lester and I'm Stacy Hicks.

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Speaker 3: And I'm really glad that I'm back to being the

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Speaker 3: third one to introduce myself because it was very unsettling

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Speaker 3: doing it without.

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Speaker 1: Your last week, Amelia Luke Levine did his man spreading

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Speaker 1: on this. He did, he did. Look he did a

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Speaker 1: great job.

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Speaker 4: But I'm happy you're so much needed masculine energy to

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Speaker 4: this show.

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Speaker 1: But we're back to our bullshit now.

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Speaker 3: So coming up today, science has established the perfect age

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Speaker 3: gap for siblings and everyone is having a lot of

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Speaker 3: big feelings about it, including Monds.

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Speaker 1: There's something I need to.

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Speaker 4: Talk about with the Wicked Press tour that is hard

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Speaker 4: to talk about, but we're going to go there.

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Speaker 2: And why, oh why matching Christmas pajamas absolutely everywhere? Right now,

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Speaker 2: I've got a theory. But first, Stacey, what is trending

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Speaker 2: in parenting news?

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Speaker 3: So there was this story that went off on Mamma

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Speaker 3: Maya this week about this kind of quiet revolution that's

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Speaker 3: happening between the cohort of parents that all had COVID babies.

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Speaker 3: So this is everyone that had babies around that twenty

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Speaker 3: twenty mark that they're all starting to take kindie moons.

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Speaker 3: So Amy Malloy wrote this piece about this group of

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Speaker 3: parents and they're all kind of doing this. They're almost

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Speaker 3: feeling shameful about the fact that they're doing this, but

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Speaker 3: it's a really brilliant idea where they're starting to take

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Speaker 3: like a delayed version of a baby moon or a

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Speaker 3: holiday with their kids before they start kindling with their

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Speaker 3: kids with their kids, So it's all about spending more

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Speaker 3: time with the kids in kind of these last few

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Speaker 3: months before they're in school, and like they're off five

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Speaker 3: days a week at school, and it's mums like in

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Speaker 3: all sorts of workforces. Like initially I was like, oh,

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Speaker 3: that's very privileged to be able to, you know, be

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Speaker 3: dropping your hours or taking time, but Amy spoke to

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Speaker 3: people like there was a nurse who's taking off a

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Speaker 3: month of annual leave. There's a supermarket worker who's cutting

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Speaker 3: her shifts in half for the first quarter of the year.

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Speaker 3: And then Amy herself's taking two months off over summer

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Speaker 3: to kind of spend that real quality time. And they're

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Speaker 3: basically saying it's not necessarily about the kids and that

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Speaker 3: we need to be like wrapping them in cotton wool

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Speaker 3: because they're sensitive or anything like that. It's that as parents,

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Speaker 3: they went through a really shit time. At that time.

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Speaker 3: It was rough, and it was a different way to

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Speaker 3: come into motherhood and be raising kids, and so it's

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Speaker 3: going I'm just going to be present and be around

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Speaker 3: more for them.

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Speaker 1: Whether that's on a holiday or whether.

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Speaker 3: That's just being at home and being there for pickup,

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Speaker 3: just to kind of adjust to that time because we

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Speaker 3: kind of don't talk about what a big adjustment that

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Speaker 3: is going into school when they start.

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Speaker 4: That's really interesting because I have one of those COVID babies.

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Speaker 4: My second was a COVID baby, and at first when

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Speaker 4: I read about this, it seemed almost paradoxical to say

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Speaker 4: that they need to spend more time with their kids. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: the whole point of COVID in terms of the lockdowns,

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Speaker 4: was that we spent a lot of time with these

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Speaker 4: children too much. And that caused me to reflect on

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Speaker 4: the fact that maybe we intensely bonded with them in

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Speaker 4: a very particular way. And I guess what this baby

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Speaker 4: moon is offering is not just the prospect of more

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Speaker 4: one on one time.

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Speaker 1: But more freedom, because that is what we missed during

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Speaker 1: that time. The ability to take our kid to the.

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Speaker 4: Cafe for their first baby Chino wasn't even possible.

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Speaker 1: So I kind of love this idea.

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Speaker 2: Now I read this piece, I loved it too. I

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Speaker 2: thought what was interesting was how there's this undercurrent of

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Speaker 2: like shame about doing it. Not shame, shame is probably

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Speaker 2: the wrong word, but it's kind of like this secret

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Speaker 2: thing that people are doing and they're not really putting

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Speaker 2: a name on it. Why do you think that is?

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Speaker 3: Is it?

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Speaker 2: Because it's kind of flies in the face of like

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Speaker 2: get kids off to school and get back to work.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's what it is.

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Speaker 3: I think Amy even said in the piece that her

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Speaker 3: husband was guilty of saying it to her, despite the

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Speaker 3: fact he was very you know, involved with their children.

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Speaker 3: He was kind of like, oh, you'll have so much

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Speaker 3: more time once our youngest is at school, and the

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Speaker 3: implication of that is that you're going to go back

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Speaker 3: and do a lot more work, you know, you'll put

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Speaker 3: your foot on the accelerator. Now you've got them through

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Speaker 3: those little years, and now you're going to be working

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Speaker 3: so much harder. But that doesn't have to be what

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Speaker 3: you do. And really nine to three is not so

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Speaker 3: much time. I would argue, it's a pretty small window.

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Speaker 2: I love a kindimoon. It's like you never get this

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Speaker 2: time back. Yeah, and says that, but it's so so true.

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Speaker 1: Let's go on one. How are you taking one?

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Speaker 4: Right?

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Speaker 1: The POD's going off break. We're all taking a kindy moon.

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Speaker 2: Now, let's take one without the children. Yeah, a mummy boon. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: speaking mummy moons. Speaking of mums getting together, I saw

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Speaker 2: this great piece this week. There's this trend in China

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Speaker 2: where single mums are moving in together.

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Speaker 1: Oh cool.

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Speaker 2: They're not moving in together romantically, it's strategically they're teaming

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Speaker 2: up to survive life together because of divorce rates are

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Speaker 2: really high and cost of living is also quite insane.

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Speaker 2: So on that they have like a version of Instagram TikTok.

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Speaker 2: Mums are going on there and posting things like hey,

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Speaker 2: I'm drowning. Does anyone want to co live and co

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Speaker 2: parent together? Like bonus points if our kids are the

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Speaker 2: same age, so that they can entertain each other while

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Speaker 2: we can occasionally eat. There's no proper, proper like sociological

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Speaker 2: data on it, but apparently it's everywhere. Like there are

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Speaker 2: thirty million single mums in China, so the whole two mum,

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Speaker 2: one household thing just seems quite cool. I'm into it.

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Speaker 4: The reason why I loved this story was because it

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Speaker 4: prompted me to look into the phenomenon of single mums

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Speaker 4: in China and the stigma that they face. And it

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Speaker 4: turns out that until twenty sixteen, you basically couldn't have a.

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Speaker 1: Child on your own in China.

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Speaker 4: It wasn't like it was the law, but the problem

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Speaker 4: was you couldn't get a birth certificate for your child

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Speaker 4: unless the authorities cited a wedding certificate between you and

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Speaker 4: a man. And in twenty sixteen they kind of had

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Speaker 4: to stop doing that for one reason, which was that

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Speaker 4: people weren't having enough kids.

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Speaker 1: So if there were motivated.

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Speaker 4: Mums who wanted to have a baby on their own,

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Speaker 4: the government basically said, okay, fine, we'll let you do it.

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Speaker 1: We'll sort of cast a blind eye over it and

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Speaker 1: let you do it.

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Speaker 4: But there's still a lot of stigma around it. So

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Speaker 4: whether or not these mums are single mums because they

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Speaker 4: chose to do it from birth or because they got

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Speaker 4: a divorce. Apparently divorce rates are rising as the society

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Speaker 4: itself gets richer, single moms are exploding there as a

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Speaker 4: demographic and they're overcoming that stigma that is still just

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Speaker 4: very prevalent.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a great idea too, Like I'm seeing that

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Speaker 3: more and more in the culture.

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Speaker 1: Like they're referred to as mum munes.

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Speaker 3: So all these mums will move in together to raise

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Speaker 3: the kids, and don't you feel like you're kind of

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Speaker 3: seen them mum munes like mom mu okay, yeah, marm mune.

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Speaker 3: Sorry I should pronounce it with an American accents, mom munes. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: Where they're all moving in together, and it is kind

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Speaker 3: of that thing that you think, like if you go

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Speaker 3: out with friends and there's a million kids, Like it's

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Speaker 3: hectic as but it's almost easier sometimes, so they form

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Speaker 3: their own little environment.

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Speaker 4: Children become just sort of a rogue gangues run around

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Speaker 4: it somehow works.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I love it. What a great idea, I reckon

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Speaker 3: that's awesome.

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Speaker 1: I want to talk about something that's really hard to

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Speaker 1: talk about. But this podcast is.

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Speaker 4: Meant to be about what parents are thinking about, and

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Speaker 4: we want to put what you're thinking about in words.

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Speaker 4: And this is something that I happen to know that

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Speaker 4: many parents in my circle are thinking about right now.

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Speaker 1: So here goes an.

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Speaker 4: Article in the Free Press this last week really put

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Speaker 4: a shape around some feelings that I've been having of

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Speaker 4: discomfort to do with the press tour for the second

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Speaker 4: Wicked movie, which is called Wicked for Good. You've seen

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Speaker 4: this press tour, You've seen lots of images of it

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Speaker 4: and lots of stories about it. In fact, we talked

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Speaker 4: about it on Mama Mia out Loud this week. The

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Speaker 4: stars of that movie are, of course Ariana Grande and

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Speaker 4: Cynthia Arrivo, and they have been traveling the world promoting

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Speaker 4: what is the biggest movie in the world right now.

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Speaker 4: Wicked for Good has topped the Australian box office. It's

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Speaker 4: the second biggest opening this year after guess what the

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Speaker 4: other movie was, of course, the Minecraft movie, which I

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Speaker 4: know way too much about, And so they've been doing

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Speaker 4: a lot of press and this article points out that

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Speaker 4: Ariana Grande looks as fragile on screen as a porcelain doll.

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Speaker 4: She says, if my daughter sees this movie. Kara Kennedy

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Speaker 4: is the author of this piece in the Free Press.

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Speaker 4: It's called in Wicked, There's a very thin elephant in

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Speaker 4: the room. Kara Kennedy says, if my daughter sees this movie,

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Speaker 4: will this be the body she feels she has to

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Speaker 4: grow into? And that just stopped me in my tracks

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Speaker 4: because I had been feeling this discomfort and I didn't

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Speaker 4: quite know how to put it into words, but that

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Speaker 4: is exactly it.

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Speaker 1: Now.

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Speaker 4: I want to put up some guardrails around this conversation.

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Speaker 4: I am not going to concern troll here. I don't

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Speaker 4: know what's going on with Ariana Grande or Cynthia Arrivo,

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Speaker 4: and it is even less of my business what is

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Speaker 4: going on with those two women. But as a parent,

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Speaker 4: it would be disingenuous of me to say that I

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Speaker 4: am not concerned at the trend in Hollywood more generally

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Speaker 4: towards increasingly smaller bodies, particularly amongst women. And look, as parents,

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Speaker 4: we're constantly having to ask this question of what cultural

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Speaker 4: messages do I want my child to absorb?

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Speaker 1: Who do I want my child to look up to?

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Speaker 4: Who are the heroes and heroines in the culture that

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Speaker 4: I want them to really be thinking about and fixating on.

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Speaker 4: And I have to say that I am feeling as

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Speaker 4: a parent who grew up in the nineties and who

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Speaker 4: watched heroin Sheek happen, I'm seeing this trend and celebration

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Speaker 4: of thinness and smallness come back in a way that

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Speaker 4: it hasn't been here in the culture since then, and

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Speaker 4: it is concerning to me. So I guess I wanted

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Speaker 4: to kick off by saying, are you feeling this discomfort too?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, I definitely am.

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Speaker 3: And if I'm really honest with myself, thinking about when

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Speaker 3: I sat in that cinema and watched that movie, there

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Speaker 3: was a tiny voice in the back of my head

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Speaker 3: who's always been there, and I've been working very hard

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Speaker 3: to get rid of her.

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Speaker 1: Said, God, I wish I was that small.

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Speaker 3: You know, maybe not that small, but God, I wish

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Speaker 3: I was tinier. And that's coming from someone I'm mid size.

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Speaker 3: I'm six foot two. I take up a lot of

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Speaker 3: space physically, but it's something that we have grown up

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Speaker 3: with our entire lives. And I felt like we had

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Speaker 3: come so far, Like I felt like the dial on

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Speaker 3: this had finally shifted, Like we grew up with magazines.

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Speaker 3: I worked in magazines in a time when you know,

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Speaker 3: the covers were Jessica Simpson's you know, body as being

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Speaker 3: huge when she was a size ten, or you know,

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Speaker 3: the covers that always did the best were half their

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Speaker 3: size or plastic surgery. It's always been fixated on looks.

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Speaker 3: And I feel like we went so far in the

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Speaker 3: other direction, in a really good way. We were moving

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Speaker 3: towards bodies just being bodies and seeing a lot of

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Speaker 3: different bodies in the culture and that being great, and

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Speaker 3: it very much is feeling now like that is backsliding,

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Speaker 3: and so it's hard to grapple with. You know, millennials

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Speaker 3: have a really warped view. So we're trying to fix

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Speaker 3: it for ourself so that we can then fix it

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Speaker 3: for our children and make sure they don't grow up

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Speaker 3: with that voice. But how do you do that when

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Speaker 3: the people they're presented with in the culture all.

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Speaker 1: Look one way and that way is small?

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Speaker 3: And I think it's important in this conversation that we're

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Speaker 3: saying we're not talking about women who are naturally thin.

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Speaker 3: People are in all different sized bodies, and it's not

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Speaker 3: women who are in naturally smaller bodies where this conversation

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Speaker 3: has stemmed from as people who've lost a dramatic amount

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Speaker 3: of weight from their starting point, and that's where the

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Speaker 3: concern comes in.

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Speaker 4: Mon's you mentioned when we were talking about this that

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Speaker 4: Disney princesses have undergone a recalibration as part of this

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Speaker 4: move towards body positivity or body neutrality, but that seems

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Speaker 4: to have backslid as well.

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Speaker 2: What fries my brain about this is that it feels like,

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Speaker 2: not long ago, we had good, strong role models for girls,

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Speaker 2: and Disney gave us kind of Moana who could kick

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Speaker 2: down a door, and Raya who had biceps, and they

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Speaker 2: gave us Meritor from Brave, and they were these girls

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Speaker 2: who were strong and powerful and mustli.

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Speaker 3: And the women in in Canto as well, like being

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Speaker 3: able to lift houses.

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Speaker 1: Like it's so good, yes.

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Speaker 2: And now it does feel like suddenly Hollywood is like

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Speaker 2: hang on, Like what if we go back to extremely

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Speaker 2: thin and delicate and then you're told that you're not

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Speaker 2: allowed to comment on it. Everything is fine, there's no

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Speaker 2: beauty standards here, like move along, no one look at this.

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Speaker 2: It's fine, it's fine, but yeah, here was the problem,

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Speaker 2: Like there was this study. A while ago, I read

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Speaker 2: an article in The Guardian that talked about how Disney

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Speaker 2: characters are messing up body imaging girls like in Frozen,

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Speaker 2: Anna's eyes are wider than her wrists. So when we

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Speaker 2: are trying to teach girls to take up space to

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Speaker 2: be strong and powerful, my question is what's going on

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Speaker 2: more broader culturally, because are we losing the appetite for big,

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Speaker 2: big bodies, big personalities, big stories. And this is not

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Speaker 2: an wi could isolated thing. We are seeing this across

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Speaker 2: a lot of strands of culture where women, as you said, Amelia,

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Speaker 2: are getting smaller. And is it a Hollywood thing? Is

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Speaker 2: it a beauty standard thing? Tell me this is too

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Speaker 2: long of a boat to draw, But is it also

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Speaker 2: a treadwife thing. There's this reduction of women to being smaller,

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Speaker 2: to shrinking down, to getting back in the home, to

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Speaker 2: being more domesticated that just feels kind of like really

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Speaker 2: opposite to what we were talking about ten years ago.

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Speaker 4: I mean, part of what's going on, I think is

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Speaker 4: weight loss injections and the technology that has progressed to

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Speaker 4: the point where those are more widely available.

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Speaker 1: But I think that the deeper question is a really good.

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Speaker 4: One man's about why we are seemingly celebrating an ever

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Speaker 4: smaller female body, just after we had a decade celebrating

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Speaker 4: body positivity.

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Speaker 1: That feels like a fever dream. Now it feels really

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Speaker 1: far away.

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Speaker 4: I wanted to stress test whether or not this is

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Speaker 4: even the problem that we seem to think it is,

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Speaker 4: and look into whether maybe I'm projecting onto children or

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Speaker 4: my body neuroses when I say that I feel discomfort

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Speaker 4: about very small female celebrities. Maybe I'm bringing a lot

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Speaker 4: of nonsense into it that children aren't.

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Speaker 3: They Yeah, like, are they even perceiving it when they watch?

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Speaker 3: Are they even thinking that's exactly very skinny?

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Speaker 2: Okay, I've got a question for both of you. When

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Speaker 2: was the first time you realized or you thought my

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Speaker 2: body's not right?

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Speaker 4: I don't really remember, but what I can tell you

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Speaker 4: is that there was a comprehensive study done of this

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Speaker 4: in Australia quite recently, and the age which kids start

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Speaker 4: to become vulnerable to body image dissatisfaction is eight eight.

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Speaker 1: So I'm not projecting.

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Speaker 4: You're not projecting the feelings that you feel as a

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Speaker 4: grown woman watching these bodies and feeling bad about them

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Speaker 4: is something that children as young as eight are feeling.

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Speaker 4: And by the way, this will surprise no one, girls

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Speaker 4: tend to be more dissatisfied than boys with their bodies

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Speaker 4: starting at eight.

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Speaker 2: I remember vividly the moment I had that thought of, Oh,

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Speaker 2: my body's not the right body to have. And it

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Speaker 2: was the Sweet Valley High books.

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Speaker 1: Do you remember those?

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Speaker 2: I reckon. I would have been eight or nine reading those,

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Speaker 2: and it was Jessica and Elizabeth, the blonde, blue eyed, athletic,

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Speaker 2: tanned twins, and I was reading it, absorbing it and

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Speaker 2: thinking I'm not any of that, and so therefore I'm wrong,

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Speaker 2: and it is. It was that eight or nine year old,

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Speaker 2: and that has stayed with me. Those Sweet Valley High

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Speaker 2: twins have got a lot to ask once.

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Speaker 4: That's so interesting that you could develop those feelings when

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Speaker 4: you were reading a book. I think that really challenges

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Speaker 4: the idea that kids are only getting these messages visually,

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Speaker 4: like they're clearly getting them from all directions, from all

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Speaker 4: parts of the culture.

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Speaker 2: Arguably, it might be more powerful getting it from a book,

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Speaker 2: because with a book, you have to create a vision

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Speaker 2: in your mind's eye as you're reading, So maybe the

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Speaker 2: message is deeper I don't know, So.

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Speaker 4: The question becomes what to do about it, because you

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Speaker 4: know the knee joke response would be, well, I guess

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Speaker 4: I should never mention appearance to my children, particularly not

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Speaker 4: to my children if one of them is a girl,

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Speaker 4: and I guess I should never compliment on her appearance.

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Speaker 1: I should tell her that she looks strong, not pretty.

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Speaker 1: But that frustrates me because it's also.

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Speaker 4: Disingenuous to pretend like appearances don't play a role.

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Speaker 1: In our culture.

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Speaker 4: We reward people for putting an effort into their appearance.

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Speaker 4: You wouldn't show up to a job interview wearing you know,

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Speaker 4: your workout clothes from yesterday that you haven't washed. You

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Speaker 4: wouldn't show up not brushing your hair. It's not setting

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Speaker 4: your kids up for success to pretend like appearances are

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Speaker 4: not an important part of how they are received when

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Speaker 4: they go out into the wider world.

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Speaker 1: So I looked into what the experts are saying.

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Speaker 4: The Victorian government has a better Health website that lists

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Speaker 4: a number of ways in which we're meant to help

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Speaker 4: promote a positive body image with children, and the point

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Speaker 4: that made the most sense to me was you have

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Speaker 4: to help your children consume media in a more savvy

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Speaker 4: way ask them to and encourage them to develop a

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Speaker 4: critical mind about why it is that women at this

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Speaker 4: very point in history are being encouraged to take up

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Speaker 4: less space. Kind of interesting, right, given the broader political moves.

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Speaker 1: That are happening now.

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Speaker 4: I'm not suggesting you, tal an eight year old, the

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Speaker 4: rise of fascism worldwide is connected to the fact that

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Speaker 4: women are being asked to take up less space. But

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Speaker 4: I think you can start to plant the seeds pretty

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Speaker 4: early about that stuff.

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Speaker 2: They're only being asked to take a less space in

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Speaker 2: certain areas like put the Tillies on the TV with

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Speaker 2: their AFLW TV, and they are the role models of strong, fierce, muscular,

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Speaker 2: powerful women. Maybe it's that balance of yeah, wicked is

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Speaker 2: one thing, and pop culture and Hollywood is one thing,

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Speaker 2: but what else can we look at and consume that

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Speaker 2: is not that.

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Speaker 3: It feels like our focus on body positivity and that

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Speaker 3: messaging of not talking about women's bodies or not talking

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Speaker 3: about any body's bodies has been something that's been drilled

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Speaker 3: into us. Like I know, as you said, Amelia, you

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Speaker 3: kind of go you have to tell your children that

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Speaker 3: they're strong, not beautiful, and you have to talk about

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Speaker 3: their internal qualities, not their external qualities. But what that's

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Speaker 3: done is mean that this conversation is really difficult for

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Speaker 3: people to have and they feel really scared to say anything, because,

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Speaker 3: of course, we don't want to make someone feel bad

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Speaker 3: about their appearance at whatever size, whatever appearance they are,

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Speaker 3: of course we don't, but by not talking about it,

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Speaker 3: we are normalizing people being unhealthy. So we do need

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Speaker 3: to say something. But I think it's important that in

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Speaker 3: these conversations we're not blaming the player. We're blaming the game.

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Speaker 3: Because these celebrities, of course are making us feel bad

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Speaker 3: about ourselves, but they are also part of an industry

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Speaker 3: that they're desperately trying to keep up with. They're trying

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Speaker 3: to keep up with each other, so they're kind of

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Speaker 3: victims in the situation as well.

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Speaker 2: I was also thinking about why why particularly this Wicked

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Speaker 2: movie rankles everyone, because it does feel like this is

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Speaker 2: a conversation that's being had globally. And do you remember

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Speaker 2: in Tom Hanks the movie that he did cast Away,

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Speaker 2: where he had to lose an extreme amount of weight,

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Speaker 2: and the way that that was positioned is very different

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Speaker 2: to what this is being positioned as and I was

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Speaker 2: just like, that's an interesting difference between the way that

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Speaker 2: a man would lose an extreme amount of weight for

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Speaker 2: a role and then these women who also look very thin.

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Speaker 2: In my mind, I was like, Monique tom Hanks lost

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Speaker 2: the weight for a role that demanded it. The storyline

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Speaker 2: was a man abandoned, you know, on a island, and

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Speaker 2: this is the Princess myth. This is skinniness as a

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Speaker 2: fairy tale, and I think that's where the problem lies.

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Speaker 4: So, having discussed all of this, are you going to

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Speaker 4: take your kids to see this movie?

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Speaker 1: Would you feel comfortable taking them to see it? And

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Speaker 1: how would you talk to them about it afterwards?

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Speaker 4: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: I would feel comfortable taking them to see it. I

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Speaker 2: don't think I would mention it. I think I would

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Speaker 2: remain completely body neutral, because that's what we need to

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Speaker 2: aim for, don't we.

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Speaker 4: Body The problem is that that study shows that, Look,

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Speaker 4: if your kid is eight, we now know that they're

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Speaker 4: not potentially just being body neutral about what they're seeing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, do you think that they'll notice if they're thinking

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Speaker 2: about the storyline and following on the storyline is it?

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Speaker 2: Are they actually going to notice?

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Speaker 1: Well?

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Speaker 4: What I can say is that my kids watched the

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Speaker 4: first Wicked movie recently, and that movie has a very

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Speaker 4: interesting and relevant message to this conversation, because the reason

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Speaker 4: why Cynthia Rivo's character Alphaba is so mean is because

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Speaker 4: she was made to feel bad for being green, for

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Speaker 4: having green skins. And that message is so powerful and

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Speaker 4: simple that I checked with my five year old whether

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Speaker 4: she got that message. Yep, she got that message that

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Speaker 4: you should not tease someone or make someone feel.

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Speaker 1: Bad for looking different.

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Speaker 4: So it's kind of interesting that that is the message

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Speaker 4: of these movies, to look beyond the surface, to not

439
00:21:20,394 --> 00:21:23,794
Speaker 4: judge someone on their appearance. And I guess what we're

440
00:21:23,834 --> 00:21:26,514
Speaker 4: asking our kids to do is extend that to the

441
00:21:26,554 --> 00:21:28,514
Speaker 4: size of the people in the movie.

442
00:21:28,674 --> 00:21:29,914
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's all we can do.

443
00:21:30,474 --> 00:21:32,354
Speaker 3: And of course we've got links in the show notes

444
00:21:32,354 --> 00:21:34,474
Speaker 3: if any of the topics we've spoken about have raised

445
00:21:34,514 --> 00:21:35,194
Speaker 3: anything for you.

446
00:21:35,834 --> 00:21:41,194
Speaker 2: And anyone else. Noticed that matching family Christmas pajamas everywhere

447
00:21:41,194 --> 00:21:41,514
Speaker 2: this year.

448
00:21:41,634 --> 00:21:44,074
Speaker 1: I'm surprised you're not wearing yours or anyone.

449
00:21:43,994 --> 00:21:45,594
Speaker 2: To be honest, I just changed.

450
00:21:45,634 --> 00:21:46,954
Speaker 1: Come on, it's almost there.

451
00:21:48,234 --> 00:21:51,234
Speaker 2: So Target is in on it, I mean came out

452
00:21:51,354 --> 00:21:53,314
Speaker 2: in on it. Every year. Cotton On's in on it,

453
00:21:53,354 --> 00:21:56,794
Speaker 2: Audi is, but now Skims are as well, and it's

454
00:21:56,954 --> 00:21:59,794
Speaker 2: just kind of ubiquitous. And I read this great article

455
00:21:59,874 --> 00:22:02,474
Speaker 2: in a fashion industry magazine that said that in the

456
00:22:02,594 --> 00:22:04,954
Speaker 2: US it used to be the domain of really fancy brands.

457
00:22:04,954 --> 00:22:06,833
Speaker 2: It was kind of like a nice to have thin

458
00:22:07,234 --> 00:22:09,394
Speaker 2: a very few families did. But now that we live

459
00:22:09,434 --> 00:22:12,554
Speaker 2: our lives on social media, Matching Christmas jarmis is this

460
00:22:12,834 --> 00:22:16,954
Speaker 2: multi billion dollar industry and it's built on basically one thing.

461
00:22:17,154 --> 00:22:19,154
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know it's hit the zeitgeist.

462
00:22:19,274 --> 00:22:22,074
Speaker 3: Yeah, once Skims does it, right, Like, that's when you

463
00:22:22,154 --> 00:22:25,914
Speaker 3: know it has hit peak hysteria if Skims is doing it.

464
00:22:26,034 --> 00:22:28,354
Speaker 2: But it's all just basically for this one thing, and

465
00:22:28,394 --> 00:22:30,954
Speaker 2: that is parents wanting to look like a functional family

466
00:22:31,034 --> 00:22:34,514
Speaker 2: for one photo on Christmas morning. Basically, are we still

467
00:22:34,514 --> 00:22:37,033
Speaker 2: buying matching jarmis to try and buy the feeling of

468
00:22:37,074 --> 00:22:40,154
Speaker 2: togetherness and that we've got it together for social media?

469
00:22:40,394 --> 00:22:41,194
Speaker 1: One hundred percent?

470
00:22:41,394 --> 00:22:43,273
Speaker 3: I bought them the first year, and I was the

471
00:22:43,314 --> 00:22:45,394
Speaker 3: most cynical person before having a kid.

472
00:22:45,434 --> 00:22:47,394
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, cringe.

473
00:22:47,434 --> 00:22:49,474
Speaker 4: And then the first year I was like, look at us,

474
00:22:49,794 --> 00:22:52,434
Speaker 4: We're so together and cute and matching.

475
00:22:52,874 --> 00:22:56,034
Speaker 1: I thought it was great, so I have fallen for it.

476
00:22:56,074 --> 00:22:57,834
Speaker 1: What print do you have for this year?

477
00:22:57,914 --> 00:23:00,354
Speaker 3: I haven't done them this year. I'm tossing up whether

478
00:23:00,394 --> 00:23:03,513
Speaker 3: I'm going to subject my family to them again, because

479
00:23:03,554 --> 00:23:05,634
Speaker 3: I asked my daughter and she went, no, I don't

480
00:23:05,634 --> 00:23:06,434
Speaker 3: think so.

481
00:23:06,434 --> 00:23:09,074
Speaker 1: So that's the thing to kins like them?

482
00:23:09,234 --> 00:23:12,074
Speaker 4: Or is it really for adults to put onto Instagram?

483
00:23:12,114 --> 00:23:14,513
Speaker 3: I totally think it's for us to feel like we're

484
00:23:14,674 --> 00:23:19,394
Speaker 3: you know, wonderful, We're in control, you know, united family.

485
00:23:19,114 --> 00:23:23,033
Speaker 4: Right, missus Claus over here? Yeah, what pajamas do you

486
00:23:23,114 --> 00:23:24,034
Speaker 4: have for your family?

487
00:23:24,754 --> 00:23:28,354
Speaker 2: I ordered my Christmas pajamas on the September the twelfth.

488
00:23:28,914 --> 00:23:32,074
Speaker 2: I had them, and then I I am nothing.

489
00:23:31,834 --> 00:23:36,434
Speaker 4: Less and once I want to know, I went the

490
00:23:36,514 --> 00:23:37,394
Speaker 4: Target Bluis.

491
00:23:38,274 --> 00:23:40,194
Speaker 2: The reason why I got in early was because last

492
00:23:40,274 --> 00:23:41,834
Speaker 2: year I decided I was going to be a Christmas

493
00:23:41,874 --> 00:23:43,674
Speaker 2: Jarmy's family. I left my run too late and I

494
00:23:43,674 --> 00:23:45,914
Speaker 2: couldn't get the sizes that I wanted. So this year

495
00:23:45,994 --> 00:23:47,513
Speaker 2: I was like, right, I'm going to be first in,

496
00:23:47,714 --> 00:23:50,114
Speaker 2: so I get the nice matching ones and the sizes

497
00:23:50,154 --> 00:23:50,434
Speaker 2: I want.

498
00:23:50,514 --> 00:23:53,514
Speaker 3: The bit I hate is that you've ironed No, that's

499
00:23:53,554 --> 00:23:55,594
Speaker 3: the bit nonsense.

500
00:23:55,834 --> 00:23:56,954
Speaker 2: Oh my god, come on.

501
00:23:56,954 --> 00:23:58,954
Speaker 1: So, Emelia, you weren't here last night.

502
00:23:58,994 --> 00:24:01,594
Speaker 4: But I look, I was throwing things at my phone

503
00:24:01,834 --> 00:24:03,994
Speaker 4: when Mon's told us how much she loves Iron I.

504
00:24:03,954 --> 00:24:06,114
Speaker 3: Know, which is so weird and Mon's I need to

505
00:24:06,154 --> 00:24:07,834
Speaker 3: tell you I got a message from one of our

506
00:24:07,914 --> 00:24:11,593
Speaker 3: lovely listeners saying she stands with me on the hanging

507
00:24:11,634 --> 00:24:13,273
Speaker 3: hack and that you need to get on board.

508
00:24:13,394 --> 00:24:16,074
Speaker 1: So there you go. You're hearing it from our own audience.

509
00:24:16,194 --> 00:24:18,674
Speaker 1: Just put them on a hanger, shake it out.

510
00:24:18,754 --> 00:24:20,674
Speaker 2: It's fine, Anti, don't mind.

511
00:24:20,754 --> 00:24:21,914
Speaker 1: I saved yourself from John.

512
00:24:21,994 --> 00:24:24,554
Speaker 2: It just makes everything so crisp and nice like. It's

513
00:24:24,634 --> 00:24:27,354
Speaker 2: just takes your close to another level, doesn't it.

514
00:24:27,714 --> 00:24:30,513
Speaker 1: Sorry, you're about to sleep in the mons, get a grip.

515
00:24:30,594 --> 00:24:32,274
Speaker 1: You don't tie them. It's fine.

516
00:24:32,514 --> 00:24:34,874
Speaker 3: Actually, no, for the Instagram photo, you do need to

517
00:24:34,874 --> 00:24:37,954
Speaker 3: iron them. That's fair, Amelia. Are you a Christmas jarmy family?

518
00:24:38,314 --> 00:24:41,194
Speaker 4: Oh, I'll give you one guess. Of course, I'm not.

519
00:24:41,634 --> 00:24:44,034
Speaker 4: All I see when I see them is land Phil.

520
00:24:44,194 --> 00:24:46,154
Speaker 4: I need to take the place of our supreme leader,

521
00:24:46,234 --> 00:24:50,114
Speaker 4: Luke Levine under Consumption King and tell you that Christmas

522
00:24:50,114 --> 00:24:53,354
Speaker 4: pajamas discussed me. You're gonna wear them for what a

523
00:24:53,434 --> 00:24:55,634
Speaker 4: month and then the kids are going to outgrow them

524
00:24:55,714 --> 00:24:56,234
Speaker 4: next year.

525
00:24:56,474 --> 00:24:58,553
Speaker 1: I can't get on board with that. My husband's been

526
00:24:58,554 --> 00:25:00,794
Speaker 1: wearing his now for four years straight, so I beg

527
00:25:00,834 --> 00:25:01,234
Speaker 1: to differ.

528
00:25:02,674 --> 00:25:05,754
Speaker 2: So commuch on Amelia. He loves the part with them,

529
00:25:05,794 --> 00:25:08,274
Speaker 2: But Amelia, they need new armies at that time of year,

530
00:25:08,354 --> 00:25:10,313
Speaker 2: like the season changes, and they do need a new

531
00:25:10,354 --> 00:25:12,194
Speaker 2: pairt So why not just get a pair with Father

532
00:25:12,234 --> 00:25:12,793
Speaker 2: Christmas on it?

533
00:25:13,034 --> 00:25:16,954
Speaker 4: Because I think there's something very sort of sad about

534
00:25:16,954 --> 00:25:20,313
Speaker 4: wearing Christmas pajamas in February, Like it just feels like

535
00:25:20,394 --> 00:25:22,714
Speaker 4: leaving a Christmas tree up for too long. Are you

536
00:25:22,794 --> 00:25:25,314
Speaker 4: going to allow your children to wear their Christmas pajamas

537
00:25:25,394 --> 00:25:26,234
Speaker 4: after Christmas?

538
00:25:26,394 --> 00:25:28,114
Speaker 2: Keep that spirit going all year round.

539
00:25:28,394 --> 00:25:30,794
Speaker 1: I mean they've been wearing them since centers, so they've

540
00:25:30,794 --> 00:25:32,074
Speaker 1: gotten them wear out of them.

541
00:25:33,154 --> 00:25:35,073
Speaker 3: One of the things I didn't realize would come up

542
00:25:35,114 --> 00:25:38,073
Speaker 3: as much as it has since having a child is

543
00:25:38,474 --> 00:25:41,634
Speaker 3: talking about the age gap, and not like of the couple,

544
00:25:41,714 --> 00:25:44,114
Speaker 3: like the age gap of the kids in the family.

545
00:25:44,234 --> 00:25:46,154
Speaker 1: So you know, you get a lot of the yeah,

546
00:25:46,154 --> 00:25:46,514
Speaker 1: I had.

547
00:25:46,434 --> 00:25:48,914
Speaker 3: Two under two, or they've got a three point five

548
00:25:49,114 --> 00:25:51,033
Speaker 3: year age gap, and it's wonderful for us.

549
00:25:51,114 --> 00:25:53,714
Speaker 2: Oh, Yeah, it's this real, like Marker, isn't it.

550
00:25:53,714 --> 00:25:54,314
Speaker 1: It's a thing.

551
00:25:54,674 --> 00:25:56,794
Speaker 4: It's people who have a three and a half year

552
00:25:56,834 --> 00:25:59,074
Speaker 4: age gap. I feel like do had that tone of voice.

553
00:25:59,154 --> 00:26:02,794
Speaker 3: Yeah, they think they got the perfect the perfect gap.

554
00:26:02,834 --> 00:26:03,914
Speaker 1: Well I've got news for them.

555
00:26:04,194 --> 00:26:07,594
Speaker 3: There was a post circulating this week claim that the

556
00:26:07,634 --> 00:26:11,154
Speaker 3: five to six year age gap is actually better and

557
00:26:11,274 --> 00:26:13,394
Speaker 3: healthier for mothers and happier.

558
00:26:13,074 --> 00:26:15,674
Speaker 4: Childress made me feel really bad when you sent it

559
00:26:15,714 --> 00:26:16,154
Speaker 4: to me, I.

560
00:26:16,114 --> 00:26:17,474
Speaker 1: Went, well, there goes my children.

561
00:26:17,594 --> 00:26:20,874
Speaker 3: No, no, don't feel bad because I've looked into it all.

562
00:26:20,914 --> 00:26:22,954
Speaker 3: But it just it made me realize how passionate people

563
00:26:23,114 --> 00:26:24,794
Speaker 3: are about this topic. Because there are a lot of

564
00:26:24,834 --> 00:26:27,474
Speaker 3: people in the comments who will make you feel better, Amelia,

565
00:26:27,514 --> 00:26:30,594
Speaker 3: because some people were saying that they loved that big gap,

566
00:26:30,634 --> 00:26:32,554
Speaker 3: because they'd say, you know, I felt like I had

567
00:26:32,594 --> 00:26:34,154
Speaker 3: an extra person to look after me.

568
00:26:34,554 --> 00:26:35,114
Speaker 1: But then there are.

569
00:26:35,034 --> 00:26:37,834
Speaker 3: Also a lot of them saying we were such different ages,

570
00:26:37,874 --> 00:26:40,553
Speaker 3: like we never were bonded in the way that closer

571
00:26:40,634 --> 00:26:43,474
Speaker 3: siblings are and what you get from being really close

572
00:26:43,514 --> 00:26:44,834
Speaker 3: in age to your brother or sister.

573
00:26:45,434 --> 00:26:47,754
Speaker 1: So I had to look into.

574
00:26:47,474 --> 00:26:50,194
Speaker 3: This to see like, what is the research around this,

575
00:26:50,354 --> 00:26:52,594
Speaker 3: what is meant to be, because don't you feel like

576
00:26:52,874 --> 00:26:55,114
Speaker 3: people who had and I feel like you two are

577
00:26:55,154 --> 00:26:58,274
Speaker 3: both in this category three under three or two under two,

578
00:26:58,354 --> 00:27:00,674
Speaker 3: or even Irish twins, like you wear it as a

579
00:27:00,674 --> 00:27:02,914
Speaker 3: badge of honor because you've been in the trenches, Like

580
00:27:02,994 --> 00:27:05,033
Speaker 3: that's hard, you've been through it.

581
00:27:05,154 --> 00:27:07,914
Speaker 1: So do you feel like there is a old standard

582
00:27:08,154 --> 00:27:11,074
Speaker 1: age gap? First? Before I get into what they say

583
00:27:11,674 --> 00:27:13,194
Speaker 1: about it, Look.

584
00:27:13,034 --> 00:27:15,314
Speaker 4: I think I didn't have a choice in the matter.

585
00:27:15,434 --> 00:27:19,554
Speaker 4: I got married fairly late in the game, comparatively late,

586
00:27:19,674 --> 00:27:23,394
Speaker 4: and then had kids quickly because I felt like that

587
00:27:23,594 --> 00:27:26,154
Speaker 4: was the message I got, have kids as young as

588
00:27:26,194 --> 00:27:29,714
Speaker 4: you feasibly can. But it kind of makes sense that

589
00:27:29,754 --> 00:27:32,834
Speaker 4: with a bigger age gap you can invest more attention

590
00:27:32,954 --> 00:27:35,834
Speaker 4: and emotional resources in each child, and that they're probably

591
00:27:35,834 --> 00:27:37,353
Speaker 4: going to be less competitive with each other.

592
00:27:37,434 --> 00:27:37,914
Speaker 1: Yeah.

593
00:27:37,994 --> 00:27:40,274
Speaker 4: Yeah, I've had my drothers. I probably would have gone

594
00:27:40,274 --> 00:27:42,553
Speaker 4: for a five or six year age gap. Unfortunately it

595
00:27:42,554 --> 00:27:43,434
Speaker 4: wasn't on the cards.

596
00:27:43,514 --> 00:27:43,874
Speaker 1: Mons.

597
00:27:44,434 --> 00:27:46,674
Speaker 2: I just feel like researchers need to get something else

598
00:27:46,714 --> 00:27:48,354
Speaker 2: to research, because I just don't see the point of

599
00:27:48,394 --> 00:27:53,234
Speaker 2: any of this, like because you can't control it. Fertility

600
00:27:53,354 --> 00:27:55,834
Speaker 2: is such a difficult thing for so many people and

601
00:27:55,834 --> 00:27:57,553
Speaker 2: then to have researchers come along and say, oh, but

602
00:27:57,634 --> 00:27:59,874
Speaker 2: here's the perfect way to do it. Shut up, like,

603
00:27:59,954 --> 00:28:02,474
Speaker 2: we will do it when it happens. You just can't

604
00:28:02,514 --> 00:28:06,474
Speaker 2: control everything, like just stop, go study something else exactly.

605
00:28:06,514 --> 00:28:09,634
Speaker 3: And that's the with people talking about planning age gaps.

606
00:28:09,674 --> 00:28:13,274
Speaker 3: But I find really interesting you can't control it, like

607
00:28:13,594 --> 00:28:16,194
Speaker 3: you really got. I mean, some people can, good for them,

608
00:28:16,234 --> 00:28:19,513
Speaker 3: but most people cannot control it like you. So many

609
00:28:19,554 --> 00:28:22,914
Speaker 3: factors come into that. As you said, age infertility.

610
00:28:23,674 --> 00:28:26,554
Speaker 4: Funny, it reminds me of the discourse about when it's

611
00:28:26,594 --> 00:28:29,394
Speaker 4: the perfect age for a woman to have a child. Yeah,

612
00:28:29,434 --> 00:28:32,994
Speaker 4: And I remember when I was younger and was not

613
00:28:33,074 --> 00:28:35,674
Speaker 4: in a position to have a child, feeling like I

614
00:28:35,754 --> 00:28:37,874
Speaker 4: was being hammered over the head with this idea that

615
00:28:37,954 --> 00:28:40,074
Speaker 4: I should have had a child younger. I should have

616
00:28:40,114 --> 00:28:42,074
Speaker 4: had a child before I turned thirty, I should have

617
00:28:42,074 --> 00:28:43,394
Speaker 4: had a child before I turned thirty two.

618
00:28:43,514 --> 00:28:45,634
Speaker 1: I'm like, I don't have any choice in this.

619
00:28:45,954 --> 00:28:48,114
Speaker 4: I can't do this right now, So why are you

620
00:28:48,154 --> 00:28:49,154
Speaker 4: making me feel bad?

621
00:28:49,194 --> 00:28:51,074
Speaker 1: It kind of reminds me of that exactly. Well, that's

622
00:28:51,114 --> 00:28:53,034
Speaker 1: why I'm going to make you feel better about this month.

623
00:28:53,154 --> 00:28:56,754
Speaker 2: I'm gonna make passionate mad stacy because when you sent

624
00:28:56,794 --> 00:28:59,714
Speaker 2: me this article and I felt my feelings, I was like,

625
00:28:59,754 --> 00:29:02,874
Speaker 2: I'm going to look up this research. Guess what. I

626
00:29:02,914 --> 00:29:06,274
Speaker 2: couldn't find it. So I saw this clip on social media.

627
00:29:06,274 --> 00:29:08,154
Speaker 2: I saw heaps of US radio station talking about it.

628
00:29:08,154 --> 00:29:10,634
Speaker 2: I saw someone else talking about it. You know, it's everywhere,

629
00:29:10,794 --> 00:29:12,194
Speaker 2: and I was like, oh, that's interesting. I'm going to

630
00:29:12,234 --> 00:29:17,194
Speaker 2: fat check this this Scandinavian study. I could not find

631
00:29:17,234 --> 00:29:20,394
Speaker 2: this Scandinavian study. I'm like, is this whole thing made up?

632
00:29:20,514 --> 00:29:23,274
Speaker 2: Like is it just engagement farming on social media to

633
00:29:23,354 --> 00:29:28,074
Speaker 2: say hey, we saw this study and then comment comment, comment, comment, you're.

634
00:29:28,034 --> 00:29:30,194
Speaker 3: Right, that is exactly what it did and made people

635
00:29:30,234 --> 00:29:33,714
Speaker 3: go into this frenzy trying to justify what they had

636
00:29:33,834 --> 00:29:35,954
Speaker 3: in their situation or what they grew up with with

637
00:29:36,034 --> 00:29:38,514
Speaker 3: their siblings. So I wanted to actually look at like

638
00:29:38,994 --> 00:29:41,314
Speaker 3: what is it? Is this actually anything at all? And

639
00:29:41,434 --> 00:29:43,794
Speaker 3: doctor Kara Goodwin wrote this really good substack where she

640
00:29:43,834 --> 00:29:46,674
Speaker 3: went through all the research. There are things that are

641
00:29:46,714 --> 00:29:49,154
Speaker 3: super obvious ones like you're going to go yeah, of course,

642
00:29:49,274 --> 00:29:52,154
Speaker 3: like research on children that are closer in age, the

643
00:29:52,234 --> 00:29:54,554
Speaker 3: parents are more likely to be stressed and they're more

644
00:29:54,674 --> 00:29:55,674
Speaker 3: likely to get divorced.

645
00:29:55,994 --> 00:29:57,914
Speaker 1: Wow's glad someone got a PhD.

646
00:29:58,154 --> 00:30:00,154
Speaker 3: Yeah, Like, I think we could have figured that one

647
00:30:00,194 --> 00:30:03,194
Speaker 3: out ourselves. And then there's ones about how children with

648
00:30:03,274 --> 00:30:06,034
Speaker 3: a bigger age gap in their relationship with their sibling

649
00:30:06,114 --> 00:30:08,914
Speaker 3: they tend to have more ada and like a caring

650
00:30:09,074 --> 00:30:11,354
Speaker 3: factor for those kids, but ones that are in the

651
00:30:11,394 --> 00:30:14,474
Speaker 3: closer group that are like two years or less, they're

652
00:30:14,514 --> 00:30:18,274
Speaker 3: closer overall in life generally, like because they've grown up

653
00:30:18,314 --> 00:30:21,394
Speaker 3: at that similar milestone, they're doing things together at the

654
00:30:21,434 --> 00:30:25,274
Speaker 3: same time. And then there's also other ones about developmental outcomes.

655
00:30:25,314 --> 00:30:27,554
Speaker 3: So yes, it does say generally, if you've got kids

656
00:30:27,594 --> 00:30:31,154
Speaker 3: further apart, they probably will have better developmental outcomes because

657
00:30:31,154 --> 00:30:34,194
Speaker 3: the parents they weren't so depleted, they had more time

658
00:30:34,274 --> 00:30:38,114
Speaker 3: to give to focus on multiple children. But none of

659
00:30:38,114 --> 00:30:41,274
Speaker 3: that research considers what is best for your family overall.

660
00:30:41,634 --> 00:30:43,794
Speaker 3: And even the doctor herself he went through all of

661
00:30:43,794 --> 00:30:47,914
Speaker 3: this research, said, despite loving research, she did not factor

662
00:30:47,914 --> 00:30:50,154
Speaker 3: any of it into her own decision making. You just

663
00:30:50,234 --> 00:30:52,234
Speaker 3: have to do what works and when it happens.

664
00:30:52,274 --> 00:30:55,314
Speaker 4: Well, a question of like best age gap for whom,

665
00:30:55,394 --> 00:30:59,794
Speaker 4: because you've largely focused here on best age gap in

666
00:30:59,874 --> 00:31:03,634
Speaker 4: terms of children's outcomes. Yeah, but for instance, in terms

667
00:31:03,674 --> 00:31:06,874
Speaker 4: of maternal health outcomes, it turns out there is kind

668
00:31:06,874 --> 00:31:09,914
Speaker 4: of an established gold standard which is twenty seven to

669
00:31:09,914 --> 00:31:12,914
Speaker 4: thirty two months, because that's how long it takes a

670
00:31:12,954 --> 00:31:16,834
Speaker 4: woman's body to fully recover from childbirth and breastfeeding. Yeah,

671
00:31:16,954 --> 00:31:21,314
Speaker 4: but that's a very different question to best developmental.

672
00:31:20,754 --> 00:31:23,354
Speaker 3: Outcome, and you might just go having to go back

673
00:31:23,394 --> 00:31:25,954
Speaker 3: to the start and do nappies and night feeds after

674
00:31:25,994 --> 00:31:28,514
Speaker 3: a five to six year gap where you've been out

675
00:31:28,514 --> 00:31:31,554
Speaker 3: of that phase mentally, to go back into that that

676
00:31:31,634 --> 00:31:35,754
Speaker 3: seems so I head off to those parents because that

677
00:31:35,834 --> 00:31:37,594
Speaker 3: seems like a real mind trip.

678
00:31:37,874 --> 00:31:38,354
Speaker 1: Yeah.

679
00:31:38,394 --> 00:31:42,554
Speaker 2: If the research says, if the legit research says that

680
00:31:42,714 --> 00:31:46,554
Speaker 2: bigger gaps mean happier mums and better developmental outcomes for kids,

681
00:31:46,594 --> 00:31:49,954
Speaker 2: then why does the culture reward parents you have three

682
00:31:50,074 --> 00:31:52,514
Speaker 2: under three or four and five? Like, why are we

683
00:31:52,594 --> 00:31:55,034
Speaker 2: all just like, oh, is it like a resilience thing?

684
00:31:55,114 --> 00:31:55,314
Speaker 3: Is it?

685
00:31:55,394 --> 00:31:55,474
Speaker 4: Like?

686
00:31:55,594 --> 00:31:58,234
Speaker 2: Wow? Is it this like knowingness? Like shouldn't we be

687
00:31:58,274 --> 00:32:02,434
Speaker 2: going that's terrible for the outcomes for your children? But

688
00:32:02,554 --> 00:32:04,834
Speaker 2: instead we clap, we applaud, we yeah.

689
00:32:04,674 --> 00:32:06,714
Speaker 3: Yeah, we do look at it and go wow, like

690
00:32:06,794 --> 00:32:09,834
Speaker 3: you have really gone through it, like you are doing

691
00:32:09,914 --> 00:32:11,834
Speaker 3: it the harder way, but they're also doing it the

692
00:32:11,874 --> 00:32:14,594
Speaker 3: smarter way because then you just got those trenches out

693
00:32:14,594 --> 00:32:17,554
Speaker 3: of the way simultaneously and you move on.

694
00:32:17,594 --> 00:32:21,914
Speaker 1: It's cheaper. Yeah, yeah, it would be a lot of

695
00:32:21,954 --> 00:32:24,114
Speaker 1: hard me downs. So who's who's smarter?

696
00:32:24,234 --> 00:32:24,434
Speaker 2: Now?

697
00:32:24,914 --> 00:32:26,114
Speaker 1: Do you know who's not smarter?

698
00:32:26,354 --> 00:32:29,034
Speaker 3: I used AI to tell me what thirty two months

699
00:32:29,354 --> 00:32:35,714
Speaker 3: was in years, because it's you know, like when parents say, oh, yeah,

700
00:32:35,714 --> 00:32:37,994
Speaker 3: this is my child, but twenty three months old and

701
00:32:38,034 --> 00:32:42,114
Speaker 3: you're like, what, just tell me their age. It's two

702
00:32:42,234 --> 00:32:45,634
Speaker 3: years and eight months. You go, I love you getting

703
00:32:45,634 --> 00:32:50,034
Speaker 3: fashionate once. Fuck the research, Fuck helping anyone.

704
00:32:50,754 --> 00:32:55,714
Speaker 2: This research, the fake research go to something else. So

705
00:32:55,874 --> 00:33:00,514
Speaker 2: from unhelpful research to helpful recommendations. This is the part

706
00:33:00,514 --> 00:33:02,114
Speaker 2: of the show where we bring you the things that

707
00:33:02,154 --> 00:33:04,634
Speaker 2: we've seen, we've read, we've watched, we've bought, we've loved,

708
00:33:04,714 --> 00:33:08,274
Speaker 2: and we tell you about it. It's not sponsored, it's

709
00:33:08,314 --> 00:33:12,994
Speaker 2: never sponsored. These are genuine things that we love today. Ladies,

710
00:33:13,754 --> 00:33:15,714
Speaker 2: you know I am missus Christmas.

711
00:33:16,194 --> 00:33:16,634
Speaker 1: Sure.

712
00:33:17,034 --> 00:33:19,554
Speaker 2: I'm bringing you a boomer relic that you may have

713
00:33:19,594 --> 00:33:21,674
Speaker 2: never heard of, but you need it in your life.

714
00:33:22,234 --> 00:33:24,634
Speaker 2: It's called the Lions Christmas Cake.

715
00:33:26,074 --> 00:33:28,274
Speaker 1: Were these are the ones in the Muslin? Are they

716
00:33:28,314 --> 00:33:28,914
Speaker 1: those ones?

717
00:33:29,234 --> 00:33:31,194
Speaker 2: No? No, no, they come in a cart.

718
00:33:31,594 --> 00:33:33,354
Speaker 1: Has There's got a lot of dried fruit, isn't it?

719
00:33:33,394 --> 00:33:35,714
Speaker 4: Because there's so I call bullshit, so much dried fruit,

720
00:33:35,754 --> 00:33:37,474
Speaker 4: that's so much strid fruit.

721
00:33:37,594 --> 00:33:41,874
Speaker 2: So the Lions Christmas Cake only appears once a year,

722
00:33:42,274 --> 00:33:45,634
Speaker 2: and it always appears in random places like banks and

723
00:33:45,794 --> 00:33:50,074
Speaker 2: post offices and sometimes a chemist. And they sell out

724
00:33:50,114 --> 00:33:53,394
Speaker 2: really quickly. So there's this scarcity element to these. I'm

725
00:33:53,394 --> 00:33:54,914
Speaker 2: telling you, if you see.

726
00:33:54,714 --> 00:33:55,994
Speaker 1: One, it's like limited a dish.

727
00:33:56,154 --> 00:34:00,954
Speaker 2: Buy it. They are so good. These fruitcakes are elite level.

728
00:34:01,434 --> 00:34:03,714
Speaker 2: My recommendation is to buy two of them. I'll tell

729
00:34:03,754 --> 00:34:06,674
Speaker 2: you why in a moment. But the money goes to Lions,

730
00:34:06,674 --> 00:34:10,913
Speaker 2: which is like this boomer community club and they support

731
00:34:10,994 --> 00:34:14,033
Speaker 2: community projects and let me tell you they're not gonna

732
00:34:14,034 --> 00:34:15,994
Speaker 2: be around for much longer. Right, These kind of like

733
00:34:16,074 --> 00:34:20,034
Speaker 2: wholesome community groups, Like who's joining that as a gen

734
00:34:20,114 --> 00:34:24,954
Speaker 2: z No, this is making me feel really yeah, support

735
00:34:25,034 --> 00:34:26,393
Speaker 2: them and keep the Lions going.

736
00:34:26,434 --> 00:34:27,434
Speaker 1: The Lions are great.

737
00:34:27,794 --> 00:34:30,354
Speaker 2: They are great. So that's my hot tip by yourself

738
00:34:30,434 --> 00:34:33,674
Speaker 2: to Lions Christmas Cakes because they won't be around like

739
00:34:33,754 --> 00:34:38,274
Speaker 2: in probably twenty years. I'm sorry if anyone.

740
00:34:37,314 --> 00:34:40,354
Speaker 4: Because the boomers are shuffling off their mortal coil.

741
00:34:40,514 --> 00:34:44,873
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, and like that's real. One's I know, I've

742
00:34:44,954 --> 00:34:46,634
Speaker 3: never eaten a fruit cake in my life.

743
00:34:46,834 --> 00:34:50,634
Speaker 2: You oh my god, Okay, you haven't lived good. They're

744
00:34:50,754 --> 00:34:51,674
Speaker 2: so good, Stacey.

745
00:34:52,274 --> 00:34:55,873
Speaker 1: Do you have it with some cream or something on it?

746
00:34:55,954 --> 00:34:58,834
Speaker 2: But you only have just small pieces because it's very sweet.

747
00:34:59,234 --> 00:35:01,913
Speaker 2: But here's my hot tip. This is such an old

748
00:35:01,954 --> 00:35:04,834
Speaker 2: person's recommendation, but by two, so that you've got one

749
00:35:04,834 --> 00:35:06,393
Speaker 2: to eat at home when people pop in or whatever.

750
00:35:06,474 --> 00:35:08,913
Speaker 2: But the second one is when you know when someone's.

751
00:35:08,594 --> 00:35:11,834
Speaker 1: Like, sorry, people are popping in on you. Are you're

752
00:35:11,874 --> 00:35:15,274
Speaker 1: a grandmother who was popping in on you? This is Christmas?

753
00:35:15,274 --> 00:35:18,514
Speaker 1: She probably has a full display, Amelia. Seriously, no one

754
00:35:18,594 --> 00:35:20,354
Speaker 1: has ever popped in before.

755
00:35:22,194 --> 00:35:25,794
Speaker 2: Get out this again. This is your Sydney life. This

756
00:35:25,874 --> 00:35:28,674
Speaker 2: is Adelaide's small country town vibes. Here we pop in.

757
00:35:29,234 --> 00:35:31,393
Speaker 2: So here's my hot tip. If you have to take

758
00:35:31,434 --> 00:35:33,754
Speaker 2: a plate somewhere, you know, Christmas, someone's having a thing,

759
00:35:33,794 --> 00:35:36,114
Speaker 2: You're like, shit, I got to take some food. You

760
00:35:36,154 --> 00:35:38,674
Speaker 2: just slice up the small pieces of your lines Christmas cake,

761
00:35:38,914 --> 00:35:41,194
Speaker 2: add some cherries fresh cherries, and then just like a

762
00:35:41,194 --> 00:35:45,873
Speaker 2: few chocolates, well crowd pleasers. It takes about four seconds,

763
00:35:45,954 --> 00:35:49,594
Speaker 2: zero thinking time to assemble. It relies on people liking fruitcake.

764
00:35:49,634 --> 00:35:52,114
Speaker 2: But I think as you become in your forties you

765
00:35:52,154 --> 00:35:53,953
Speaker 2: do start to like fruitcakes.

766
00:35:53,954 --> 00:35:56,514
Speaker 4: The fiber, isn't it got a lot of fiber. That

767
00:35:56,674 --> 00:35:59,873
Speaker 4: reminds me of another limited edition Christmas sweet that I

768
00:35:59,994 --> 00:36:01,794
Speaker 4: used to love, which you can't get anymore.

769
00:36:02,074 --> 00:36:02,873
Speaker 1: Have either of you.

770
00:36:02,794 --> 00:36:07,114
Speaker 4: Ever eaten the Darryl Lee Christmas Puddings Little New Guy

771
00:36:07,354 --> 00:36:10,594
Speaker 4: Puddings genuinely the most delicious thing I've ever eaten. I

772
00:36:10,674 --> 00:36:12,794
Speaker 4: used to get one every Christmas under the Christmas Tree

773
00:36:12,834 --> 00:36:15,234
Speaker 4: little box from dary Lee, But now that Daryl is

774
00:36:15,274 --> 00:36:18,474
Speaker 4: basically gone, you can't get them anymore.

775
00:36:18,674 --> 00:36:20,913
Speaker 1: No, you can get the Rocky Road. That's great.

776
00:36:22,034 --> 00:36:24,913
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, Well you better have your Christmas cake ready.

777
00:36:24,954 --> 00:36:26,993
Speaker 3: I'm going to pop round me, don't pop over.

778
00:36:28,274 --> 00:36:30,594
Speaker 2: I got it from the chemist this year. In fact,

779
00:36:30,674 --> 00:36:32,034
Speaker 2: I went to the chemist and I said are you

780
00:36:32,074 --> 00:36:33,834
Speaker 2: getting them this year? And then I made the woman

781
00:36:33,914 --> 00:36:35,074
Speaker 2: text to you when they came in.

782
00:36:36,234 --> 00:36:39,554
Speaker 4: Wow, something to try something delicious when you buy that

783
00:36:39,674 --> 00:36:40,194
Speaker 4: the chemist.

784
00:36:40,314 --> 00:36:45,114
Speaker 2: Yea, yeah, Amelia, what are you recommending?

785
00:36:45,514 --> 00:36:50,714
Speaker 4: As you know, I'm a celebrated and renowned artiste, I'm

786
00:36:50,754 --> 00:36:53,234
Speaker 4: no one for my rock art and you know I'm

787
00:36:53,234 --> 00:36:54,194
Speaker 4: just very artistic.

788
00:36:54,354 --> 00:36:58,913
Speaker 1: So I went to a kid's workshop. I tracked my

789
00:36:59,074 --> 00:37:01,834
Speaker 1: kid to a kids you wanted to go to.

790
00:37:03,674 --> 00:37:05,674
Speaker 4: It was meant to be for the kids, but I

791
00:37:05,674 --> 00:37:07,714
Speaker 4: was like, can I just sit next to the kid

792
00:37:07,794 --> 00:37:10,114
Speaker 4: to supervise the kid? And then of course I ended

793
00:37:10,194 --> 00:37:13,194
Speaker 4: up doing the workshop. It was a pop up book

794
00:37:13,234 --> 00:37:16,354
Speaker 4: workshop and it was with the Australian illustrator Freeda Chew,

795
00:37:16,514 --> 00:37:19,554
Speaker 4: who's amazing. Her work is so joyful and exuberant.

796
00:37:19,634 --> 00:37:21,674
Speaker 1: She wrote this book, A Trip to the Hospital, a

797
00:37:21,674 --> 00:37:22,394
Speaker 1: picture book.

798
00:37:22,194 --> 00:37:24,834
Speaker 4: If anyone's come across it, and she was teaching the

799
00:37:24,914 --> 00:37:28,114
Speaker 4: kids how to make their own little like pop up scenes.

800
00:37:27,954 --> 00:37:32,873
Speaker 1: The kids tea. I was just run there.

801
00:37:33,394 --> 00:37:36,314
Speaker 4: But I learned about these things from her called Posca

802
00:37:36,474 --> 00:37:37,394
Speaker 4: paint markers.

803
00:37:37,914 --> 00:37:39,194
Speaker 1: Have you ever heard of it? Yes?

804
00:37:39,914 --> 00:37:42,794
Speaker 2: No, they're the best, but they're expensive.

805
00:37:42,834 --> 00:37:44,674
Speaker 1: On the best, they're not that expense.

806
00:37:44,674 --> 00:37:46,473
Speaker 4: You can get a set of eight for thirty five

807
00:37:46,514 --> 00:37:48,994
Speaker 4: dollars from office works, which of course I did the

808
00:37:49,034 --> 00:37:51,154
Speaker 4: best way I can describe these is that they kind

809
00:37:51,154 --> 00:37:54,194
Speaker 4: of like paint in a pen, so they really go

810
00:37:54,274 --> 00:37:57,074
Speaker 4: on to the page like paint, but there isn't the

811
00:37:57,114 --> 00:38:00,714
Speaker 4: messive page. And miraculously that they don't have any kind

812
00:38:00,714 --> 00:38:02,834
Speaker 4: of weird smell. I feel like so many texters have

813
00:38:02,874 --> 00:38:05,634
Speaker 4: a weird smell that makes you think it has microplastics

814
00:38:05,634 --> 00:38:07,913
Speaker 4: in it. These do not have a weird smell. They

815
00:38:07,914 --> 00:38:11,474
Speaker 4: were invented in Japan in the nineteen eighties, and apparently

816
00:38:11,474 --> 00:38:14,513
Speaker 4: they're very popular with graffiti artists because they can draw

817
00:38:14,514 --> 00:38:16,473
Speaker 4: on any surface. So I guess that's a little bit

818
00:38:16,474 --> 00:38:19,234
Speaker 4: of a warning to people. They really can draw on

819
00:38:19,314 --> 00:38:22,433
Speaker 4: any surface, but they work wonderfully on paper and I

820
00:38:22,554 --> 00:38:26,754
Speaker 4: just love drawing with them, and sometimes I even persuade

821
00:38:26,754 --> 00:38:29,953
Speaker 4: my children to draw Amelia.

822
00:38:30,034 --> 00:38:31,953
Speaker 2: Are you getting the fine tipped ones or are they

823
00:38:31,994 --> 00:38:32,674
Speaker 2: like a fat tea?

824
00:38:32,794 --> 00:38:32,993
Speaker 4: No?

825
00:38:33,234 --> 00:38:36,913
Speaker 1: I love a fat texture, a really fat text, A

826
00:38:36,994 --> 00:38:39,913
Speaker 1: juicy fruitcake and a fat texture. That's what this show

827
00:38:39,994 --> 00:38:40,554
Speaker 1: offers you.

828
00:38:40,634 --> 00:38:42,594
Speaker 2: And is it satisfying doing because you have to shake

829
00:38:42,634 --> 00:38:43,553
Speaker 2: them and they metal.

830
00:38:44,514 --> 00:38:45,714
Speaker 1: I love when they make that.

831
00:38:46,154 --> 00:38:49,954
Speaker 4: I'm so saturated the color. They're really fun.

832
00:38:50,354 --> 00:38:53,754
Speaker 1: Can I come over and do No, you can't come over, Stacey,

833
00:38:53,994 --> 00:38:56,114
Speaker 1: I get over. I mean I'm getting a cup of

834
00:38:56,154 --> 00:38:57,234
Speaker 1: teas some fruitcake.

835
00:38:57,394 --> 00:39:01,074
Speaker 2: Oh, bring a plate, It's fine popping for a posca

836
00:39:01,114 --> 00:39:03,234
Speaker 2: and a piece of cake. I'm sad they don't have

837
00:39:03,274 --> 00:39:05,114
Speaker 2: the toxic smell. I love to sniff a text.

838
00:39:06,114 --> 00:39:10,034
Speaker 4: Yeah, everyone's got their vices. Your ironing and snipping texters.

839
00:39:10,074 --> 00:39:11,554
Speaker 4: That's pretty good, actually.

840
00:39:11,354 --> 00:39:13,073
Speaker 2: The Stacey, what have you got this week?

841
00:39:13,434 --> 00:39:15,954
Speaker 3: Okay, I've got a show that has brought me so

842
00:39:16,114 --> 00:39:18,834
Speaker 3: much joy. I find it hard to watch a full

843
00:39:18,834 --> 00:39:20,873
Speaker 3: episode of TV without falling asleep.

844
00:39:20,594 --> 00:39:22,714
Speaker 1: At night by the time I actually get to watch

845
00:39:22,954 --> 00:39:25,554
Speaker 1: your partner get really mad at you. Yeah, mine's always

846
00:39:25,634 --> 00:39:26,514
Speaker 1: like you've betrayed.

847
00:39:27,954 --> 00:39:30,154
Speaker 3: But that's why I found my own little show and

848
00:39:30,234 --> 00:39:32,074
Speaker 3: let him go off and watch his shows while I

849
00:39:32,154 --> 00:39:34,913
Speaker 3: watched this show. Because I love it, and so many

850
00:39:34,914 --> 00:39:36,794
Speaker 3: people have started talking about it. I don't know how

851
00:39:36,834 --> 00:39:39,354
Speaker 3: it's gotten this ground swell. I don't think it even

852
00:39:39,394 --> 00:39:42,034
Speaker 3: aired here. It's on ten play, so it's all free, Like,

853
00:39:42,074 --> 00:39:43,194
Speaker 3: you can watch it on ten play.

854
00:39:43,274 --> 00:39:46,473
Speaker 1: Ten plays also got South Park, which sod.

855
00:39:47,434 --> 00:39:51,514
Speaker 3: So the show is Celebrity Traders UK. So The Traders

856
00:39:51,594 --> 00:39:52,714
Speaker 3: is a show that's been on TV.

857
00:39:52,754 --> 00:39:56,154
Speaker 4: Okay, I have to admit something. I keep hearing traders, Traders,

858
00:39:56,194 --> 00:39:57,354
Speaker 4: What is this is.

859
00:39:57,554 --> 00:40:00,114
Speaker 1: Like a drama? What? No? So it's kind of like

860
00:40:00,154 --> 00:40:02,433
Speaker 1: The Mole. Did you ever watch it The Mole? Probably not.

861
00:40:02,554 --> 00:40:04,473
Speaker 1: You were probably in the US when the Mole was out.

862
00:40:04,514 --> 00:40:05,794
Speaker 1: Do you remember the Mole? Mons?

863
00:40:05,994 --> 00:40:06,794
Speaker 2: I never watched it.

864
00:40:07,114 --> 00:40:08,034
Speaker 1: A cast of people.

865
00:40:08,074 --> 00:40:10,314
Speaker 3: It's like a reality show, like a Survivor Vibe where

866
00:40:10,314 --> 00:40:13,594
Speaker 3: someone gets voted out every day he gets plotting.

867
00:40:14,194 --> 00:40:15,794
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a game. It's a game.

868
00:40:15,914 --> 00:40:16,594
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a game.

869
00:40:16,634 --> 00:40:19,274
Speaker 3: But they all go in not knowing who the traders

870
00:40:19,274 --> 00:40:21,554
Speaker 3: are and they will get tapped on the shoulder in

871
00:40:21,594 --> 00:40:24,034
Speaker 3: one of the first dinner parties and told you're the trader.

872
00:40:24,154 --> 00:40:27,274
Speaker 3: So it's like a murder mystery party. Okay, so there's

873
00:40:27,354 --> 00:40:30,354
Speaker 3: three traders. The rest of them are called faithful.

874
00:40:30,434 --> 00:40:32,993
Speaker 1: But what are they doing during the day apart from

875
00:40:33,034 --> 00:40:33,514
Speaker 1: being traded?

876
00:40:33,554 --> 00:40:36,994
Speaker 3: They do challenges and then the traders call challenges physical

877
00:40:37,074 --> 00:40:39,634
Speaker 3: challenges or like puzzles or things where they've got to

878
00:40:39,674 --> 00:40:42,074
Speaker 3: work together to a time and it takes money in

879
00:40:42,154 --> 00:40:44,634
Speaker 3: and out of the prize pool. So they're like invested

880
00:40:44,674 --> 00:40:48,074
Speaker 3: in getting this money. So on the celebrity version doesn't

881
00:40:48,114 --> 00:40:49,754
Speaker 3: matter if you don't know any of these celebrities, like

882
00:40:49,754 --> 00:40:52,154
Speaker 3: it actually doesn't matter, but there are ones you'll know.

883
00:40:52,234 --> 00:40:55,754
Speaker 3: So there's like Stephen Fry, Alan Carr, Jonathan Ross is

884
00:40:55,794 --> 00:40:58,674
Speaker 3: in it, Celia Imri who was in like she's been

885
00:40:58,674 --> 00:41:01,953
Speaker 3: in Mama Mia and The Best Exotic Marigold. They tell, yeah,

886
00:41:01,994 --> 00:41:06,434
Speaker 3: like you'll know the movie. So there's all these cast

887
00:41:06,514 --> 00:41:08,953
Speaker 3: members in this one, and they're playing for charity in this.

888
00:41:09,194 --> 00:41:11,913
Speaker 3: So apparently the normal version is a lot more cutthroat

889
00:41:12,074 --> 00:41:14,834
Speaker 3: because they're playing celebrity.

890
00:41:15,074 --> 00:41:16,754
Speaker 1: It is so funny.

891
00:41:16,834 --> 00:41:18,954
Speaker 3: I won't give away who gets picked as the traders,

892
00:41:18,994 --> 00:41:21,074
Speaker 3: but the people who get picked as the traders, You're like,

893
00:41:21,354 --> 00:41:22,994
Speaker 3: how are you going to get away with this?

894
00:41:23,154 --> 00:41:25,194
Speaker 1: Like, how are you not going to admit it? You're

895
00:41:25,234 --> 00:41:29,114
Speaker 1: fearing into spoiler and you've almost sold me. It's brilliant

896
00:41:29,234 --> 00:41:29,514
Speaker 1: watch it.

897
00:41:29,514 --> 00:41:31,794
Speaker 3: It's only nine episodes, so it's not a big commitment.

898
00:41:31,954 --> 00:41:34,154
Speaker 3: You can cut the episodes in half like I often

899
00:41:34,194 --> 00:41:36,594
Speaker 3: do when I fall asleep and come back to it.

900
00:41:36,594 --> 00:41:38,554
Speaker 3: It's just lovely, wholesome TV.

901
00:41:39,034 --> 00:41:41,154
Speaker 2: Because I'm a sheep and I do everything you tell me.

902
00:41:42,394 --> 00:41:45,634
Speaker 2: I watched this on your recommendation, and I there's two

903
00:41:45,634 --> 00:41:47,474
Speaker 2: things that I love about it. Number one is that

904
00:41:47,514 --> 00:41:50,194
Speaker 2: it was free to watch. I was like, oh god,

905
00:41:50,194 --> 00:41:51,714
Speaker 2: what streaming service is this going to be on that

906
00:41:51,754 --> 00:41:55,594
Speaker 2: I don't have? Oh no, it's on Tenplay great. Secondly,

907
00:41:55,674 --> 00:41:58,954
Speaker 2: it is so entertaining, like I was laughing out loud,

908
00:41:59,314 --> 00:42:02,474
Speaker 2: so and just watching people unravel in real time is

909
00:42:02,554 --> 00:42:05,274
Speaker 2: so so entertaining. So thank you. It's exactly what I

910
00:42:05,274 --> 00:42:06,194
Speaker 2: need at this time of year.

911
00:42:06,354 --> 00:42:10,794
Speaker 3: The host, Gardia Winkleman, is so dramatic. Claudia Winkman, Claudia, sorry,

912
00:42:10,834 --> 00:42:14,154
Speaker 3: Claudia Winkleman. She is so dramatic, but in the funniest way.

913
00:42:14,234 --> 00:42:16,634
Speaker 3: So she'll come in every morning and go, well, that

914
00:42:16,754 --> 00:42:20,314
Speaker 3: person's been murdered, like obviously they've not been murdered. It's

915
00:42:20,354 --> 00:42:22,554
Speaker 3: so ridiculous how they do it. But it's great.

916
00:42:22,674 --> 00:42:26,514
Speaker 2: And her hair and her fit and her eyelin. I'm obsessed.

917
00:42:26,594 --> 00:42:29,394
Speaker 1: She's so I can't take you fabulous.

918
00:42:29,554 --> 00:42:32,154
Speaker 4: I just got it bone to pick with you. You said

919
00:42:32,154 --> 00:42:35,194
Speaker 4: you do everything Stacey recommends.

920
00:42:35,754 --> 00:42:36,794
Speaker 3: Yeah, you don't.

921
00:42:36,874 --> 00:42:39,114
Speaker 2: And you except for the rock painting, I haven't done that.

922
00:42:39,194 --> 00:42:43,314
Speaker 4: I was about to ask, no rock painting yet, none whatsoever.

923
00:42:43,554 --> 00:42:46,274
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I saw a rock painting kit in the

924
00:42:46,274 --> 00:42:48,194
Speaker 2: reject Shop because you go in there all the time.

925
00:42:48,234 --> 00:42:54,873
Speaker 3: So I went and yeah, still painting a bit more

926
00:42:54,874 --> 00:42:58,473
Speaker 3: time with your beloved reject shop. But I had that

927
00:42:58,514 --> 00:43:00,474
Speaker 3: thing where I saw the rock painting kit and I

928
00:43:00,514 --> 00:43:02,474
Speaker 3: was like, I can just get rocks out of the

929
00:43:02,514 --> 00:43:03,594
Speaker 3: garden and use my post.

930
00:43:03,874 --> 00:43:06,154
Speaker 2: Why would I do this? All right, that is all

931
00:43:06,154 --> 00:43:08,234
Speaker 2: we have time for this week on Parenting out Loud.

932
00:43:08,794 --> 00:43:11,954
Speaker 2: Hey a quick heads up for Black Friday, Mum and

933
00:43:11,994 --> 00:43:14,433
Speaker 2: MEA has dropped their biggest discount of the year on

934
00:43:14,514 --> 00:43:17,513
Speaker 2: a subscription, So right now you can get twenty one

935
00:43:17,554 --> 00:43:20,994
Speaker 2: bucks off of a yearly subscription. That brings it down

936
00:43:21,154 --> 00:43:24,393
Speaker 2: to just forty eight bucks for a whole year. And like,

937
00:43:24,434 --> 00:43:26,754
Speaker 2: what do you get? You get every podcast, you get

938
00:43:26,794 --> 00:43:31,114
Speaker 2: every story, the giveaways, the move fitness app, and finally

939
00:43:31,234 --> 00:43:33,274
Speaker 2: you can be one of those people who hears the

940
00:43:33,394 --> 00:43:37,834
Speaker 2: juicy out Loud subscriber episodes all year. But you have

941
00:43:37,914 --> 00:43:40,033
Speaker 2: to be quick, like, if you want in on this,

942
00:43:40,514 --> 00:43:42,514
Speaker 2: hit the link in our show notes and grab it

943
00:43:42,554 --> 00:43:46,393
Speaker 2: before it disappears. The offer ends at eleven fifty nine

944
00:43:46,514 --> 00:43:48,794
Speaker 2: pm on the first of December, so if you blink,

945
00:43:48,794 --> 00:43:50,554
Speaker 2: you're going to miss it. So jump on board A

946
00:43:50,554 --> 00:43:53,474
Speaker 2: big thanks to our team, Junior content producer Tessa Kotovic,

947
00:43:53,554 --> 00:43:57,834
Speaker 2: our senior producer Leah Porges and Executive producer Sashatanic and

948
00:43:57,874 --> 00:44:01,074
Speaker 2: the group ep is Ruth de Vine. Have a great week.

949
00:44:01,194 --> 00:44:07,754
Speaker 2: We'll be back in this feed next Saturday morning. Bye bye,

950
00:44:08,754 --> 00:44:11,634
Speaker 2: Mamma Mere acknowledges the traditional owners of the land on

951
00:44:11,674 --> 00:44:13,274
Speaker 2: which we have recorded this podcast.