WEBVTT - Looking Change Right In the Eye 0:00:10.327 --> 0:00:13.047 You're listening to a Mamma Mia podcast. 0:00:13.727 --> 0:00:16.767 Mamma Mere acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters 0:00:16.807 --> 0:00:18.407 that this podcast is recorded on. 0:00:22.927 --> 0:00:23.767 You've changed. 0:00:25.207 --> 0:00:28.007 It's an accusation, a spiky barb. 0:00:29.447 --> 0:00:30.527 How dare you? 0:00:31.367 --> 0:00:34.167 We all knew who you were, we'd got comfortable with 0:00:34.207 --> 0:00:36.927 the space and the shape you take up in our lives, 0:00:37.287 --> 0:00:43.167 and now you've gone and changed. You're spreading, moving, stretching, questioning, 0:00:43.647 --> 0:00:48.567 You're settling into yourself. You're accepting fewer excuses, you're offering 0:00:48.647 --> 0:00:52.127 fewer absolutions, you're giving fewer. 0:00:52.367 --> 0:00:56.807 You know the drill, don't change. Stay who you were. 0:00:56.847 --> 0:01:00.047 Please, all parts of you, your faith and your body, 0:01:00.087 --> 0:01:03.127 of course, will be strictly marked on how little or 0:01:03.207 --> 0:01:06.687 much they have altered over time. But also please keep 0:01:06.727 --> 0:01:10.567 a tight grip on actual you, on inside that matters. 0:01:11.087 --> 0:01:15.407 Please stay where you are and who you were, particularly 0:01:15.447 --> 0:01:18.927 if it suited us, nurtured us, made life easier for 0:01:19.047 --> 0:01:22.767 us at every turn, particularly if you being you and 0:01:22.807 --> 0:01:25.567 doing the things that you were doing allowed me to 0:01:25.607 --> 0:01:27.727 be me and do all the things that I wanted 0:01:27.767 --> 0:01:31.767 to do and just kept the world turning exactly as 0:01:31.807 --> 0:01:36.527 it was. Well, good luck with that, because they call 0:01:36.607 --> 0:01:40.127 it the change this time of life, and for many 0:01:40.167 --> 0:01:44.047 of us it can feel like something big is rolling 0:01:44.087 --> 0:01:50.927 in and stirring everything up. From this vantage point, when 0:01:50.927 --> 0:01:53.047 we have a minute to raise our heads and look back, 0:01:53.327 --> 0:01:57.367 we can see we've already transformed, many times already. We've 0:01:57.407 --> 0:02:00.287 bent ourselves to fit in. We've been pushed around by 0:02:00.327 --> 0:02:04.727 our hormones, our bodies. We've stifled ourselves for acceptance. We've 0:02:04.767 --> 0:02:09.247 opened ourselves for love. We've put ourselves back together after loss. 0:02:09.407 --> 0:02:12.927 Nothing was ever in exactly the same place again. We 0:02:12.967 --> 0:02:15.327 grew people inside us, or we fought with the bodies 0:02:15.327 --> 0:02:18.967 that could not. We've always been changing, it's been the 0:02:19.007 --> 0:02:22.647 only constant. We've just been pretending all this time to 0:02:22.687 --> 0:02:29.647 be static, smooth, reliable, steady. So yes, we've changed. We're 0:02:29.727 --> 0:02:32.487 changing still. We're learning how to be in this new 0:02:32.607 --> 0:02:36.047 version of ourselves, testing out our wobbly new grown up legs, 0:02:36.167 --> 0:02:39.767 realigning what matters, tapping into instincts we've pushed away for 0:02:39.847 --> 0:02:42.847 too long, the kind promised at the start of every year, 0:02:42.927 --> 0:02:45.127 free with a gym membership and a serve of shame. 0:02:45.327 --> 0:02:48.167 But the new you that understands that the time for 0:02:48.247 --> 0:02:51.687 standing still and playing nice is over. 0:02:53.127 --> 0:02:58.207 We've changed you. See. Hello, my name is. 0:02:58.167 --> 0:03:03.647 Holly Wainwright and I am Mid Midlife, mid Family, mid Change. 0:03:03.687 --> 0:03:07.167 This is season three of our show Mid for Generation 0:03:07.367 --> 0:03:10.007 X women who are anything but and look, it's not 0:03:10.087 --> 0:03:13.207 only for Generation X women, actually, but for anyone who 0:03:13.247 --> 0:03:15.247 wants to sit down with us and have the only 0:03:15.367 --> 0:03:18.887 kinds of conversations. We've got time for real ones, honest ones, 0:03:18.927 --> 0:03:20.447 funny ones, curious ones. 0:03:20.807 --> 0:03:21.967 No small talk here. 0:03:21.847 --> 0:03:25.647 Friends, and over the next eight episodes, the conversations we've 0:03:25.687 --> 0:03:27.207 got for you are so big it's going to be 0:03:27.207 --> 0:03:29.567 hard to keep them squeezed into that phone in your hand. 0:03:30.487 --> 0:03:34.327 We are talking about hormones, We're talking about divorce, We're 0:03:34.327 --> 0:03:37.807 talking about sexuality shifts. We're talking about invisible illness and 0:03:37.847 --> 0:03:42.687 dickheads and ambition. But today I am bringing you something 0:03:43.007 --> 0:03:46.647 that I have literally been biting my tongue and binding 0:03:46.687 --> 0:03:47.727 my fingers. 0:03:47.567 --> 0:03:50.607 Not to tell you about before. Now we are bringing you. 0:03:50.567 --> 0:03:53.927 A conversation about transformation and change and so much more. 0:03:54.247 --> 0:03:57.527 It's about bravery and being wild, and about trusting your gut, 0:03:57.767 --> 0:04:01.967 about facing reality with clear eyes, and about surviving the unsurvivable. 0:04:02.847 --> 0:04:04.167 It's about Gina Chick. 0:04:04.607 --> 0:04:08.407 What I found was that I could lit my instincts 0:04:08.887 --> 0:04:14.687 and teach me what I needed to know. I really 0:04:14.727 --> 0:04:17.287 wanted to show that there is a way of being 0:04:17.327 --> 0:04:18.407 at home in the wild. 0:04:20.567 --> 0:04:21.687 You know who Gina Chick is. 0:04:22.087 --> 0:04:24.447 She went into the Tasmanian wilderness for season one of 0:04:24.447 --> 0:04:29.247 the TVs shown alone Australia and almost immediately imprinted into 0:04:29.247 --> 0:04:32.407 the Australian psyche. It is And we talk about this 0:04:32.447 --> 0:04:35.327 today like we were just waiting for her, And in 0:04:35.367 --> 0:04:39.367 the flicker of firelight on an unforgiving beach, this incredible, 0:04:39.527 --> 0:04:43.127 capable older woman revealed herself to be as someone who 0:04:43.167 --> 0:04:47.887 had lived through so much and lost so much, but 0:04:48.087 --> 0:04:51.127 every bit of that experience had only made her grow stronger, 0:04:51.567 --> 0:04:56.087 love harder, live more. In this conversation inspired by her book, 0:04:56.127 --> 0:04:58.207 and it's a really good book. It's called We Are 0:04:58.247 --> 0:05:01.847 the Stars, we talk about all that loss, about all 0:05:01.847 --> 0:05:04.887 those different seasons of life she's lived through, from being 0:05:04.927 --> 0:05:07.647 a wild young girl with a baby bird in her pocket, 0:05:07.807 --> 0:05:11.487 mercilessly bullied at school, to being a starry eyed raver 0:05:11.767 --> 0:05:14.327 at the peak of Sydney's club scene. 0:05:14.087 --> 0:05:15.567 To being a survivalist who. 0:05:15.407 --> 0:05:18.007 Falls in love with a man from somewhere else gets 0:05:18.047 --> 0:05:20.847 diagnosed with cancer at the very moment she's about to 0:05:20.847 --> 0:05:24.087 become a mother and has three precious years with her 0:05:24.087 --> 0:05:28.247 baby girl before that sickness comes for her too, and 0:05:28.287 --> 0:05:31.687 the woman who chose, in the aftermath of unimaginable loss, 0:05:32.047 --> 0:05:40.647 to change again, to live and live big. This conversation 0:05:40.847 --> 0:05:43.607 literally changed me. In fact, quite a few of the 0:05:43.647 --> 0:05:46.367 conversations in this upcoming season have If I'm honest and 0:05:46.407 --> 0:05:48.887 I'm going to shut up about me now and introduce 0:05:48.967 --> 0:05:52.967 you to a truly extraordinary force of nature Gina Chick 0:05:53.367 --> 0:06:01.167 on transformation. Gina, this fucking book. This book is brilliant. 0:06:01.527 --> 0:06:05.847 It's heartbreaking, it really is. It's powerful, it's honest. It 0:06:05.887 --> 0:06:08.487 feels like you, so I want to read you just 0:06:08.527 --> 0:06:09.567 one little thing going to do? 0:06:09.647 --> 0:06:12.087 Lads, look at all of your. 0:06:13.447 --> 0:06:16.487 This is so so many like folded over PAGESLFA. 0:06:17.127 --> 0:06:18.447 Did you rip any well. 0:06:18.287 --> 0:06:20.047 I've got it, as I was going to say to you, 0:06:20.407 --> 0:06:23.527 because in your book you tell the story about how 0:06:23.567 --> 0:06:25.087 when you're a kid you love book so much, when 0:06:25.127 --> 0:06:26.927 you love them, you tear the pages. 0:06:26.567 --> 0:06:28.327 Out and eat them. 0:06:28.607 --> 0:06:31.247 I could have nibbled on this book, Gina, I could 0:06:31.287 --> 0:06:33.607 have nibbled on this book. But I want to read 0:06:33.607 --> 0:06:35.927 you this tiny bit. The context of this is actually 0:06:36.407 --> 0:06:39.927 very difficult time in your life. When you're telling your 0:06:39.967 --> 0:06:45.927 friend Kim Farrant, film director friend, you have cancer and 0:06:45.967 --> 0:06:50.327 you're pregnant, and she says to you, ge, she laughs, 0:06:50.407 --> 0:06:53.887 which seems you know, that's what good friends do. I 0:06:53.927 --> 0:06:57.447 guess in that situation. Gee, she says, when you're waiting 0:06:57.487 --> 0:06:59.527 to come into this body, the Angel at the gate 0:06:59.607 --> 0:07:02.287 stopped you with his clipboard and asked what experience you 0:07:02.327 --> 0:07:05.687 wanted in this life, and you just said, tick every box. 0:07:07.647 --> 0:07:10.087 That's what this book feels like. It feels to me 0:07:10.207 --> 0:07:11.767 like if you're going to do something, you don't do 0:07:11.807 --> 0:07:13.967 it half asked. It's not like a tick the boxes 0:07:14.007 --> 0:07:16.247 I was on TV kind of book. No, it's nothing 0:07:16.327 --> 0:07:20.007 like that. Do you think that is who you are? 0:07:20.127 --> 0:07:22.767 Are you just all in? And have you always been that? 0:07:23.167 --> 0:07:26.607 It's a really good question and the answer I think 0:07:26.727 --> 0:07:29.967 is fairly obvious from my time on alone and also 0:07:30.127 --> 0:07:34.007 from this book. I am absolutely full throttle and have 0:07:34.127 --> 0:07:37.607 been ever since I can remember, so from the youngest age, 0:07:37.687 --> 0:07:41.127 I've always been Yeah, full on. I used to have 0:07:41.167 --> 0:07:43.567 a motto and I think I was in primary school 0:07:43.887 --> 0:07:45.727 and I wanted to have a T shirt that said this, 0:07:45.767 --> 0:07:48.127 which was grab life with both hands and stuff it 0:07:48.207 --> 0:07:50.927 in your mouth and on the back, don't choke. Maybe 0:07:50.967 --> 0:07:52.767 I was in high school, but I can remember like 0:07:52.807 --> 0:07:57.087 I've always whatever life has been offering, I've wanted it. 0:07:57.167 --> 0:08:00.167 I haven't wanted to miss any morsel of it. And 0:08:00.207 --> 0:08:03.727 I've never been afraid of life. And that's probably a 0:08:03.767 --> 0:08:06.167 lot to do with my parents, that lack of fear, 0:08:06.447 --> 0:08:09.887 but it means that whenever there's an opportunity, I'm much 0:08:09.927 --> 0:08:12.607 more likely to say yes than no. And if I 0:08:12.687 --> 0:08:14.847 am going to take that opportunity, I am going to 0:08:14.927 --> 0:08:16.407 do it to my last breath. 0:08:17.287 --> 0:08:18.847 I was going to say. I think one of the 0:08:18.887 --> 0:08:21.087 things about getting to this point of our lives and 0:08:21.127 --> 0:08:23.287 looking back that obviously you have had to do to 0:08:23.327 --> 0:08:26.687 write this book. Often we've lived many lives. You have 0:08:26.767 --> 0:08:29.807 definitely lived many lives. There's the life that you lived 0:08:29.807 --> 0:08:33.047 obviously as a child in Javis Bay, a wild child 0:08:33.087 --> 0:08:36.087 in the literal sense of the word. There's the bully 0:08:36.247 --> 0:08:39.567 kid in your teenage years at school. Then you find 0:08:39.647 --> 0:08:42.847 your family almost in Sydney in the queer rave scene 0:08:42.847 --> 0:08:45.127 in the nineties. Oh my god, I love those chapters 0:08:45.127 --> 0:08:50.247 so much, and then we'll get to midlife. But I 0:08:50.287 --> 0:08:51.847 wonder if when we look back at that, we think, 0:08:51.847 --> 0:08:53.767 did all those things make me who I am? Or 0:08:53.847 --> 0:08:56.687 was I always this person? And you think you were 0:08:56.727 --> 0:08:57.127 always this? 0:08:57.527 --> 0:09:01.407 Yeah? I think we come into life, into our bodies 0:09:01.487 --> 0:09:05.087 with like a fingerprint of our personality. And I've been 0:09:05.207 --> 0:09:07.767 lucky enough and blessed enough to be able to explore 0:09:07.807 --> 0:09:10.247 those I've had a life of privilege in that I 0:09:10.287 --> 0:09:13.367 grew up loved and I grew up in a house 0:09:13.567 --> 0:09:17.407 where time was a commodity that was valued with family, 0:09:17.527 --> 0:09:19.487 so there was a lot of family time. I grew 0:09:19.527 --> 0:09:22.687 up in a house where my creativity was fed and fostered. 0:09:23.047 --> 0:09:25.127 And I grew up in Jervis Bay, I grew up 0:09:25.127 --> 0:09:28.367 in Paradise. So I had the privilege of being able 0:09:28.407 --> 0:09:32.807 to express these facets of my personality and have them fed. 0:09:33.287 --> 0:09:35.887 And you know, I've been able to follow a lot 0:09:35.927 --> 0:09:39.887 of them, and just even one of them is unusual, 0:09:39.927 --> 0:09:41.767 but I've managed to be able to. You know, I 0:09:41.847 --> 0:09:46.007 have so many that are actually quite weird and weave 0:09:46.047 --> 0:09:47.127 them into a life. 0:09:47.327 --> 0:09:51.407 It's interesting, though, So you've got these different lives. One 0:09:51.447 --> 0:09:53.607 of the places I would love to ask you about 0:09:53.687 --> 0:09:57.847 jumping into is a lot of the big adventures. As established, 0:09:57.847 --> 0:10:00.847 you've always been having adventures, but it's somewhere in your 0:10:00.927 --> 0:10:04.367 late thirties forty ish after you actually have quite a 0:10:04.607 --> 0:10:08.967 terrifying health episode that you decide that you are going 0:10:09.007 --> 0:10:12.287 to go to tracking school and you're going to really 0:10:12.367 --> 0:10:15.127 jump into this sort of survivalist world. And that changes 0:10:15.167 --> 0:10:17.047 the direction of your life in several ways because you 0:10:17.087 --> 0:10:18.847 travel over there and you meet Lee and then he 0:10:18.927 --> 0:10:21.207 ends up being your husband and the father of Blaze. 0:10:22.167 --> 0:10:25.487 What made you decide at that point in your life 0:10:26.127 --> 0:10:27.167 to make that jump? 0:10:27.607 --> 0:10:30.007 So one of the things that I talk about in 0:10:30.047 --> 0:10:32.847 the book, and I probably I think I don't actually 0:10:32.927 --> 0:10:37.927 mention this explicitly. I trust my gut. The sort of 0:10:37.927 --> 0:10:40.607 scary health episode that happened when I was I think 0:10:40.647 --> 0:10:45.767 at thirty was after like a whole bunch of experiences 0:10:45.807 --> 0:10:48.247 where I didn't trust my gut, and I think it 0:10:48.327 --> 0:10:51.087 nearly killed me not doing that. And in the aftermath 0:10:51.127 --> 0:10:53.887 of that, I got it, I learned it. And so 0:10:54.007 --> 0:10:57.727 then after that, whenever I would sort of have an 0:10:57.767 --> 0:11:02.127 opportunity or a crossroads come up, I wouldn't ask my 0:11:02.207 --> 0:11:04.487 head what the right decision was. I'd actually ask my 0:11:04.567 --> 0:11:08.767 belly or the wolf in my belly, and if the 0:11:08.767 --> 0:11:11.847 wolf in my bally said do this, then I would 0:11:11.847 --> 0:11:13.727 do it. And I wouldn't even ask any questions. And 0:11:13.767 --> 0:11:15.607 so when it came to going to track a school, 0:11:16.207 --> 0:11:18.927 at that point, I think I would hear the name 0:11:18.967 --> 0:11:20.847 of a school, or i'd hear the name of a teacher. 0:11:20.887 --> 0:11:22.687 I'd hear the name of something, and it'd ring me 0:11:22.767 --> 0:11:24.647 like a bell, and I would know, Oh, I have 0:11:24.727 --> 0:11:27.087 to do this. I don't know why. I'll find out later. 0:11:27.647 --> 0:11:30.407 The first time I heard about track of school like, oh, wow, 0:11:30.447 --> 0:11:31.807 I don't even know what that is, but I'm going 0:11:31.847 --> 0:11:33.887 to have to do it, but it's not yet. And 0:11:33.887 --> 0:11:35.967 then I heard it again a year later, and it 0:11:36.087 --> 0:11:40.007 rang me even deeper. And that was when I said, oh, 0:11:40.047 --> 0:11:42.007 I really need to research this now. And I looked 0:11:42.047 --> 0:11:44.287 it up online and went, oh, my god, this is amazing. 0:11:44.327 --> 0:11:46.487 There's this school where you can learn how to track 0:11:46.527 --> 0:11:48.367 and how to stalk, and how to make fire by 0:11:48.447 --> 0:11:52.087 rubbing sticks together, and how to survive in the wilderness 0:11:52.207 --> 0:11:55.647 with only your hands. Basically, it just sang to me. 0:11:55.847 --> 0:11:59.647 So for me it became choiceless in that moment, I 0:11:59.687 --> 0:12:01.567 actually didn't have a choice. Then it was just a 0:12:01.607 --> 0:12:03.407 matter of, well, how am I going to get myself there? 0:12:04.007 --> 0:12:07.047 Because I guess if people who aren't super familiar with 0:12:07.087 --> 0:12:10.327 your story and who met you on alone and saw 0:12:10.367 --> 0:12:12.847 how capable you are in the bush, we've talked about 0:12:12.847 --> 0:12:15.527 how you were always massively drawn to nature, like in 0:12:15.567 --> 0:12:17.807 the book you talk about as a little child, how 0:12:17.807 --> 0:12:20.567 obsessed you were with creatures and bringing the outside inside 0:12:20.607 --> 0:12:23.367 and having a snake in a mouse cage and a 0:12:23.407 --> 0:12:25.407 bird in the thing in your pocket at school and 0:12:25.447 --> 0:12:28.527 all those things. But you had spent a good decade 0:12:28.567 --> 0:12:31.527 living a very urban Sydney life, like in the middle 0:12:31.527 --> 0:12:35.127 of Sydney, living near Taylor Square, partying every night, building 0:12:35.207 --> 0:12:38.367 this sort of tribe of very interesting, great artistic friends. 0:12:38.367 --> 0:12:41.647 But you were a city person at that point. And 0:12:42.447 --> 0:12:45.247 I wonder if it's I've heard you say that you've 0:12:45.287 --> 0:12:48.447 always felt like a wild thing in a human's body, 0:12:48.847 --> 0:12:51.647 and I reckon lots of women feel a bit like that, 0:12:51.967 --> 0:12:56.607 but they've spent a lifetime taming that wild thing. Is 0:12:56.647 --> 0:12:59.207 it trite to say that these moments where you were 0:12:59.247 --> 0:13:00.927 like getting to the end of that time where you'd 0:13:01.327 --> 0:13:02.967 I mean, I don't want to spoil everything for the book, 0:13:02.967 --> 0:13:05.767 but you had a bad relationship, you'd had to dig 0:13:05.807 --> 0:13:09.007 yourself out of a financial hole by working your butt off. 0:13:09.327 --> 0:13:12.327 Obviously it was always very determined in that the wild 0:13:12.447 --> 0:13:15.887 was calling you again. Was it about getting back in 0:13:15.927 --> 0:13:18.807 touch with that wild person? And how can some of 0:13:18.807 --> 0:13:21.567 the women listening to this learn how to listen to that? 0:13:21.967 --> 0:13:24.887 Yeah, I love that you've asked me this. Anything I say, 0:13:24.927 --> 0:13:26.887 I'm not saying this is the way the world is. 0:13:26.967 --> 0:13:29.567 It's the way my world is. But for me, what 0:13:29.767 --> 0:13:33.767 is true is that we are stone age creatures in 0:13:33.807 --> 0:13:37.247 modern bodies. You know, the vast majority of the information 0:13:37.287 --> 0:13:40.607 in our DNA comes from hunter gatherer ancestors. If we've 0:13:40.647 --> 0:13:44.247 been Homo sapiens for three hundred and fifty thousand years, 0:13:44.327 --> 0:13:46.767 the three hundred and forty thousand of those years we 0:13:46.767 --> 0:13:51.967 were hunter gatherers. Like that is this enormous like well 0:13:52.007 --> 0:13:57.807 of information that we contain within ourselves genetically. And now 0:13:57.847 --> 0:14:00.367 we're in this world where we live in boxes and 0:14:00.407 --> 0:14:03.207 we get our food in packets, and we can't hear 0:14:03.327 --> 0:14:06.207 the storms coming and we can't sense the information coming 0:14:06.367 --> 0:14:08.447 of the weather we're not hearing the birds telling us 0:14:08.487 --> 0:14:11.807 what's going on, but we're designed to connect in on 0:14:11.887 --> 0:14:15.407 that level. We are designed to connect infinitely with this 0:14:15.647 --> 0:14:19.167 web of life. So that is actually our birthright, and 0:14:19.207 --> 0:14:21.687 I think women can really understand that. I think that's 0:14:21.727 --> 0:14:24.407 why so many women garden. And it's not just women 0:14:24.407 --> 0:14:27.447 who garden. But the thing that I think happened when 0:14:27.447 --> 0:14:29.847 I was out on a loan and my journey resonated 0:14:29.887 --> 0:14:33.767 with so many women is because they could say, that's me, 0:14:34.247 --> 0:14:36.607 that's an extreme version, but I know I get that 0:14:36.647 --> 0:14:39.167 feeling when I'm out gardening, I get that feeling when 0:14:39.167 --> 0:14:41.567 I'm hanging out with my kids. It was more that 0:14:42.247 --> 0:14:47.167 there's this familiarity that we have with our wild essence, 0:14:47.447 --> 0:14:49.207 and we live in a world that tells us that 0:14:49.247 --> 0:14:53.407 it's suspect and dangerous. But women, deep down, we know 0:14:53.527 --> 0:14:56.487 that's who we are. We have that resonance. And the 0:14:56.567 --> 0:15:00.607 thing that I find really sad is that because we 0:15:00.887 --> 0:15:04.967 are on the tail end of this patriarchal culture that 0:15:05.487 --> 0:15:09.487 views women's wildness as suspect and other and dangerous. I 0:15:09.567 --> 0:15:11.887 like that you say we're at the tail end of it. Yeah, 0:15:11.927 --> 0:15:14.727 But because we are on that tail end. The messages 0:15:14.767 --> 0:15:18.127 that we have got as women are that our wildness, 0:15:18.127 --> 0:15:25.127 our uncontrollableness, our ferocity, our rage, our messiness, our creativity, 0:15:25.207 --> 0:15:29.887 our life force is terrifying. And so there are all 0:15:29.927 --> 0:15:33.127 of these structures in place to keep us small and 0:15:33.167 --> 0:15:35.487 obedient and behave and be good girls and behave, and 0:15:36.167 --> 0:15:41.407 you know, and so for me, what I see is 0:15:41.447 --> 0:15:44.087 that it doesn't take much for women to start to 0:15:44.127 --> 0:15:46.527 remember and for that wild creature that's in all of 0:15:46.567 --> 0:15:49.607 our bellies to wake up. It just needs to be 0:15:49.687 --> 0:15:52.447 whispered to and to have its ears scratched, and to 0:15:52.487 --> 0:15:54.847 be sort of like hab its nose pointed out to 0:15:54.887 --> 0:15:57.127 a full moon, and to be able to be let 0:15:57.167 --> 0:15:59.687 out on a wild beach at night, and to maybe 0:15:59.767 --> 0:16:01.607 go for a walk in the bush and maybe take 0:16:01.647 --> 0:16:04.407 its shoes off and get out in the garden. It 0:16:04.447 --> 0:16:08.087 doesn't take much, and we do start to like stretch 0:16:08.167 --> 0:16:11.527 out of our buy cages that we've been put into 0:16:12.127 --> 0:16:16.567 and to believe in that voice that we all have, 0:16:16.927 --> 0:16:20.127 because it's a bit like tinker Bell, you know, you 0:16:20.127 --> 0:16:23.087 know how tinker Bell. Everybody had to clap to wake 0:16:23.167 --> 0:16:27.767 tinker Bell up, that wild animal creature wise part of 0:16:27.847 --> 0:16:31.127 us just needs us to believe in it and then 0:16:31.167 --> 0:16:33.327 it starts to plump into life. 0:16:33.447 --> 0:16:37.167 I think I've seen you say that. After alone, there 0:16:37.167 --> 0:16:39.847 were a lot of women of a certain age, probably 0:16:39.887 --> 0:16:42.887 the a who are listening to this, would come up 0:16:42.927 --> 0:16:46.447 to you and say thank you, because also you were 0:16:46.487 --> 0:16:51.007 a representation of a grown up woman, as I like 0:16:51.047 --> 0:16:53.527 to say, rather than saying we're middle aged or any 0:16:53.527 --> 0:16:57.167 of those awful words. Who is competent, who is brave, 0:16:57.847 --> 0:17:01.207 who is unabashed and all those things. And it's something 0:17:01.247 --> 0:17:03.367 that we all sort of need to see because we're 0:17:03.367 --> 0:17:05.967 all being sort of pitied a little bit and told we're. 0:17:05.847 --> 0:17:06.487 A bit useless. 0:17:06.607 --> 0:17:11.007 Oh my god, it drives me absolutely bomb because where 0:17:11.047 --> 0:17:14.407 do we get to see the real us on a billboard? 0:17:14.847 --> 0:17:18.167 Like we get told that Demi Moore looks amazing and 0:17:18.207 --> 0:17:20.567 she's had what seven hundred and fifty thousand, a million 0:17:20.607 --> 0:17:23.607 dollars worth of plastic surgery to look amazing. We get 0:17:23.647 --> 0:17:26.167 to see the news articles where someone of a woman 0:17:26.207 --> 0:17:28.647 of a certain age is like, Oh, she wows in 0:17:28.687 --> 0:17:31.647 her bikini body. That's how we get marketed as long 0:17:31.687 --> 0:17:34.327 as we can wow in a bikini body. For me, 0:17:35.007 --> 0:17:37.927 one of the most amazing things that happened from alone. 0:17:38.327 --> 0:17:41.527 Is I say this in the keynote speeches, that I'm 0:17:41.567 --> 0:17:43.487 in a lot. I feel like there was a jigsaw 0:17:43.527 --> 0:17:46.847 puzzle shaped piece in the zeitgeist and nobody knew it 0:17:46.927 --> 0:17:50.967 was there until I told my story and suddenly it 0:17:51.047 --> 0:17:54.167 was just suddenly like whoa. And because there was this 0:17:54.367 --> 0:17:58.207 jigsaw puzzle shaped piece in the zeitgeist, it meant that 0:17:58.447 --> 0:18:02.967 when alone happened, and it did happen, suddenly women got 0:18:03.007 --> 0:18:07.007 to see themselves. They got to see a postmenopausal woman 0:18:07.367 --> 0:18:11.447 who's got wobbly bits and wrinkles and silver feathers and 0:18:11.527 --> 0:18:14.847 swears and laughs and shows her rashy thighs and isn't 0:18:14.887 --> 0:18:18.847 interested in marketing and is barefoot and can connect with 0:18:18.967 --> 0:18:22.687 nature in the way they relate. But it's also vital 0:18:22.727 --> 0:18:26.967 and creative and sexy and articulate and beautiful in that 0:18:27.247 --> 0:18:30.287 raw way that an older woman is beautiful. And I 0:18:30.327 --> 0:18:32.407 say older and I own it. I'm not talking like, 0:18:32.567 --> 0:18:35.407 you know, let's all be like so glad. 0:18:35.207 --> 0:18:37.327 You brought that up, because I wanted to talk to 0:18:37.327 --> 0:18:40.607 you about this, Like change and transformation is part of nature, right, 0:18:40.647 --> 0:18:42.967 And it seems to me that you've always known that. 0:18:43.007 --> 0:18:45.207 We talked to the beginning like you are who you are, 0:18:45.367 --> 0:18:48.567 but you've also been through some extraordinary transformations and we'll 0:18:48.567 --> 0:18:50.727 get to some of them. But a lot of older 0:18:50.727 --> 0:18:53.607 women are told don't change, like your face shouldn't change, 0:18:53.607 --> 0:18:57.447 your body shouldn't change, your demeanor shouldn't change, don't be 0:18:57.527 --> 0:19:00.127 too scary, don't be too outspoken, don't be too experienced, 0:19:00.687 --> 0:19:06.327 all of those things. And I saw you saying I 0:19:06.367 --> 0:19:08.767 don't know where I saw you saying this, so excuse me, 0:19:09.327 --> 0:19:10.927 but that when you were younger, you were a bit 0:19:11.007 --> 0:19:13.487 glib about aging, and that you were like, it's going 0:19:13.527 --> 0:19:15.967 to be great. Who doesn't want to be wise? But 0:19:16.087 --> 0:19:20.127 it is confronting when you do see yourself changing, And 0:19:20.207 --> 0:19:23.207 you said something really great about that. You also have 0:19:23.327 --> 0:19:26.247 that voice that speaks to you unkindly sometimes but you've 0:19:26.247 --> 0:19:31.287 got to come back, So how have you reflection? 0:19:31.527 --> 0:19:36.007 So for me, that thing about the glib is so hilarious. 0:19:36.087 --> 0:19:38.487 And I get really annoyed because I'm around a lot 0:19:38.527 --> 0:19:41.447 of younger women all the time, and I say, oh, 0:19:41.687 --> 0:19:44.287 you know, aging is great and women should just age 0:19:44.367 --> 0:19:46.847 naturally and blah blah blah blah blah, and I, you know, 0:19:47.127 --> 0:19:50.567 I love the wrinkles, and I'm like, yeah, please don't 0:19:50.647 --> 0:19:54.247 tell me how to age until you've been here, and 0:19:54.327 --> 0:19:57.167 you know what it's like. I'm sorry, but your opinion 0:19:57.247 --> 0:20:00.607 actually doesn't mean squat saying how women should age or 0:20:00.607 --> 0:20:02.887 how we should feel about our aging bodies and our 0:20:02.927 --> 0:20:06.167 aging faces. You have no idea how confronic it is 0:20:06.247 --> 0:20:08.967 until the estrogen falls out of your body and with 0:20:09.087 --> 0:20:12.047 it collagen, and suddenly it's like time lapse photography of 0:20:12.127 --> 0:20:14.727 watching this, like this portrait is a portrait in the 0:20:14.727 --> 0:20:18.327 act attic and I'm it. And so I was that glib. 0:20:18.687 --> 0:20:22.487 Oh yes, because my face basically didn't change, It really didn't. 0:20:22.607 --> 0:20:26.327 I could have been generic something between twenty and fifty, 0:20:26.727 --> 0:20:29.007 you know, And so I was really glib. I was like, oh, yes, 0:20:29.047 --> 0:20:32.487 I'm fine with aging. And then menopause happened, and the 0:20:32.527 --> 0:20:38.887 time lapse of menopause changing things was super confronting. And 0:20:39.087 --> 0:20:43.527 I have an absolutely strong strand of vanity. 0:20:44.367 --> 0:20:48.567 Absolutely you have your adiva, which I, yes, I so 0:20:48.767 --> 0:20:50.927 do and I think many of us do. But that's 0:20:50.927 --> 0:20:52.487 something else I meant to be a bit ashamed of. 0:20:52.647 --> 0:20:55.047 But yeah, and again, so it can. 0:20:54.887 --> 0:20:56.247 Be hard to see yourself change. 0:20:56.247 --> 0:20:58.967 Oh my god, it is. And so then to have 0:20:59.047 --> 0:21:02.167 that voice, because then there's this whole narrative of like, 0:21:02.367 --> 0:21:04.847 I should be okay with it, man, that the messages 0:21:04.847 --> 0:21:07.727 that I'm getting from billboards and from society are that 0:21:07.767 --> 0:21:11.167 women are attractive as long as they are botoxed and 0:21:11.447 --> 0:21:14.207 as long as they look twenty five. And to be 0:21:14.247 --> 0:21:16.567 an older woman, as long as you still look thirty five, 0:21:16.647 --> 0:21:19.967 then you're valued, and you're valuable and you're attractive. That's 0:21:19.967 --> 0:21:22.167 what I'm being told. But I should also be told 0:21:22.167 --> 0:21:24.967 that I should age naturally and I should be graceful 0:21:25.007 --> 0:21:26.927 in that, and I should be able to embrace that. 0:21:27.007 --> 0:21:30.087 And so there's all of these messages what ends up happening, 0:21:30.167 --> 0:21:33.007 and what ended up happening for me was like, all 0:21:33.047 --> 0:21:37.047 of a sudden, my body looks different, my face looks different, 0:21:37.087 --> 0:21:40.087 and that unkind voice just starts going, oh my god, 0:21:40.127 --> 0:21:45.807