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Speaker 1: You're listening to Amma Mia podcast.

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Speaker 2: Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters

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Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on Hello and welcome to

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Speaker 2: Mamma Mia out loud. What women are actually talking about

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Speaker 2: on Wednesday, the thirtieth of July.

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Speaker 1: I'm Holly Wainwright, I'm mea Friedman.

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Speaker 3: And I'm Jesse Stevens.

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Speaker 2: And what's on our agenda today.

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Speaker 3: Well, the Australian government's big announcement to ban YouTube funder sixteens.

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Speaker 3: That's just happened this morning. Why is the call so

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Speaker 3: controversial and what do we make of it?

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Speaker 4: And the actress Sidney Sweeney has appeared in an ad

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Speaker 4: for American Eagle Jeenes this week and she has accidentally

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Speaker 4: found herself in the middle of a huge drama about

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Speaker 4: eugenics and Nazis.

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Speaker 1: And we're going to unpack what the hell is going

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Speaker 1: on there.

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Speaker 2: And there's a new slightly more punk rock take on

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Speaker 2: the lat them theory. Welcome to Faffo. But first, I've

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Speaker 2: got some scorellous gossip.

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Speaker 1: Okay, it's my favorite kind.

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Speaker 2: Now, I'm not ashamed of the fact that I like

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Speaker 2: to spread a little scirrelss gossip about celebrities. There are

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Speaker 2: two surprising couples that are all over the Internet today.

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Speaker 2: One of them been knocking around for a few days.

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Speaker 2: I want to see if you think it's the real

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Speaker 2: deal or not. Some corners of the Internet, including my

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Speaker 2: own corner of the Internet, are very excited at the

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Speaker 2: idea that Liam Neeson and pamr. Anderson are a thing.

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Speaker 3: I'm finding this exhausting. Really, yeah, I think it is

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Speaker 3: the classic. They've just worked together on a movie. They

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Speaker 3: are promoting the shit out of that movie, and now

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Speaker 3: the acting doesn't stop when they yell cut, Well, the

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Speaker 3: acting continues.

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Speaker 2: That is very likely true. So just for a little

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Speaker 2: bit of background Liam Neeson, I find his career so

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Speaker 2: interesting because once upon a time he was like Oscar nominated,

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Speaker 2: very serious actor, and his whole second actor has been

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Speaker 2: action movies where he he's taking revenge on someone who

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Speaker 2: killed his wife. That's generally the whole of his things.

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Speaker 3: But met him very charismatic. Oh, he's so charagmeatic.

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Speaker 4: So he's sort of picked up from Harrison Ford. Bruce

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Speaker 4: willis that kind of role.

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Speaker 2: And he's like seventy three years old now, right, really,

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Speaker 2: and the movie he's promoting with Pammy is a new

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Speaker 2: remake of the Naked Gun movies.

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Speaker 1: I don't if you remember, though, it's like.

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Speaker 2: From the nineties kind of time, and they're very silly,

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Speaker 2: like physical comedy, absolutely.

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Speaker 1: Ridiculous and also very clever. They're like satire.

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Speaker 2: Anna Nicole Smith was in the most like you know,

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Speaker 2: so there's always a sort of Boxamy blond and age

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Speaker 2: appropriate Boxaby Blonde FORI Liam Neeson in The Naked Gun.

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Speaker 2: New Naked Gun is Pama Anderson. So she's fifty eight,

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Speaker 2: he's seventy three. They have been doing the publicity circuit

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Speaker 2: and they've definitely been leaning into the rumors. Here's a

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Speaker 2: little grab of them on one of the talk shows

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Speaker 2: they were on.

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Speaker 4: We Met.

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Speaker 1: I had never met Palma before I heard We met on.

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Speaker 5: Said and we discovered we had a lovely budding chemistry,

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Speaker 5: a connection as two actors.

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Speaker 1: And I was like, oh, this is nice.

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Speaker 2: Let's not all this, Let's just let her breathe.

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Speaker 5: And that's what we did.

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Speaker 1: So that's what we're doing right now.

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Speaker 5: We're watching the beginning of the breathing of a relationship.

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Speaker 2: Okay, Miya, why do you think so many people really

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Speaker 2: want this to be true?

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Speaker 4: A couple of reasons, so they're both iconic for women

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Speaker 4: of a certain age. I mean, I'll never get over

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Speaker 4: the tragedy of Liam Neeson, whose wife Natasha Richardson, who

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Speaker 4: was a very famous actress. They were on a family

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Speaker 4: skiing holiday and she fell and it wasn't even a

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Speaker 4: particularly bad accident, but she hit her head. And so

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Speaker 4: that happened in I think two thousand and nine, and

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Speaker 4: she died a couple of days later. She fell into

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Speaker 4: a coma later that night and never again consciousness.

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Speaker 1: It was the saddest story. I've never stopped thinking about it.

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Speaker 4: He was a real wife guy, but before wife guy

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Speaker 4: was kind of like a cheesy thing, Like he seemed

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Speaker 4: like a lovely person and they seemed like they had

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Speaker 4: a lovely marriage. So that was I thinking about the

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Speaker 4: early two thousands. And he's never really been linked that

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Speaker 4: I can think of. I don't think he's remarried, and

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Speaker 4: he's never really been linked to anyone for any length

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Speaker 4: of time. And then of course Pamela Anderson was married

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Speaker 4: to Tommy Lee and then a bunch of other people

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Speaker 4: kid Rock and cycled through a few husbands. But she's

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Speaker 4: reinvented herself as the no makeup gardening gardening new phase

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Speaker 4: of life. There was that amazing documentary she was nominated,

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Speaker 4: I think, for Gone Globes, so she's now considered a

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Speaker 4: serious actress.

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Speaker 3: I just think it's like, you know too, But do

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Speaker 3: you think it's legit?

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Speaker 1: I think it could be. Why not?

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Speaker 4: They're both sam lovely, they're both actors. They made at work.

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Speaker 4: They clearly have chemistry.

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Speaker 3: I almost think if it was real, they would downplay

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Speaker 3: it more.

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Speaker 2: I agree, I want it to be real. Marian Keyes

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Speaker 2: posted about it saying like it's so lovely seeing these

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Speaker 2: two not young people falling in love and everything, and

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Speaker 2: I think that's why we're really into it. But on

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Speaker 2: the Today Show they were like filmed sort.

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Speaker 1: Of making out.

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Speaker 2: I'd like, I don't think you'd do that if you

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Speaker 2: were in a real relationship. Let's see what you think

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Speaker 2: about the next bit of my scoreless gossip. Astronaut Katie

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Speaker 2: Perry is officially single as we know yep, and possibly

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Speaker 2: auditioning for new boyfriends Step up one. Just Intrudeau, Now,

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Speaker 2: I was going to confuse with Justin throw.

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Speaker 3: Okay, so we talked about this this morning.

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Speaker 4: To be confused with Justin Timberlat who was still on.

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Speaker 3: His Morning One up until two minutes ago. I was like, Oh,

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Speaker 3: this is Louis Theroux's cousin, Justin, who used to be

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Speaker 3: with Jennifer Aniston. Why is anyone interested in this?

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Speaker 2: Like so he recently got married anyway of the bare arms,

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Speaker 2: he recently got married. No, we're talking about the former

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Speaker 2: Prime Minister of Canada in just this way. This is

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Speaker 2: exciting and I'd almost forgotten this. But he separated from

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Speaker 2: his wife in twenty twenty three. They'd been married for

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Speaker 2: eighteen years, they've got three kids, and he's kind of

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Speaker 2: been well as far as I know, quite low down

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Speaker 2: on the dating.

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Speaker 4: I thought they'd only just split him and his wife.

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Speaker 4: I had forgotten it was while he was still in office.

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Speaker 4: But then when I was reading some of the Scirreller's

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Speaker 4: Gossip today about astronaut and former pre minister, it said

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Speaker 4: that he'd broken up recently with his partner that he'd had.

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Speaker 1: After he was married.

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Speaker 4: So he's already cycled through a rebound. And I mean

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Speaker 4: they're both again age appropriate, both very good looking people. Single,

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Speaker 4: No coldplay cam cheating dramas here.

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Speaker 2: So the rumor, the rumor is The sneaky paparazzi pictures

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Speaker 2: are them having dinner together in Montreal. Apparently they had cocktails.

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Speaker 1: They enjoyed it cocktails. I know it wasn't a work meeting.

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Speaker 2: Do we think it was a date or do you

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Speaker 2: think it was day?

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Speaker 3: Yes? And I just love that, you know, the Orlando

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Speaker 3: thing fell through. She's had a rough year. She has

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Speaker 3: had a rough year. And I think she went on Raya,

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Speaker 3: the celebrity dating app for all the famous hot people

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Speaker 3: are beautiful people, and she matched with Justin and she went,

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Speaker 3: this is fine, this single life is fine.

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Speaker 1: He didn't send her a dick because Justine Trudeau is

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Speaker 1: on Raya.

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Speaker 3: Of course did they meet, Yes, they met on Raya.

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Speaker 3: They went and got a drink. I love it. Do

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Speaker 3: I think it'll last. I think it's the.

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Speaker 1: Very best to all four of them.

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Speaker 3: To be honest, they should double date greater. Today, the

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Speaker 3: Australian government announced that YouTube will be in in our

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Speaker 3: world first social media ban, set to take place from

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Speaker 3: December now to jog your memory, The Albanezy government is

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Speaker 3: enforcing an under sixteen's social media ban, with platforms facing

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Speaker 3: fines of up to fifty million dollars if they failed

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Speaker 3: to take reasonable steps to stop kids' opening accounts.

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Speaker 1: So which platforms remind me?

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Speaker 4: Because I remember that this happened, and then because I

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Speaker 4: don't have kids under sixteen anymore, I couldn't remember if

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Speaker 4: it had actually come into effect.

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Speaker 3: So happening in December, But what we know is that

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Speaker 3: it's definitely TikTok, Instagram, Snapchat, right, but YouTube and Facebook

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Speaker 3: and Facebook everyone under sixteen they're using Facebook. Facebook's like,

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Speaker 3: that's absolutely fine with that.

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Speaker 1: I definitely want to see what their grandparents are up to.

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Speaker 3: But YouTube has always argued that it operates differently. It

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Speaker 3: says that they're not a social media app. They say

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Speaker 3: we're a video sharing platform. And this meant that they

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Speaker 3: had this exceptional carve out situation with the former Communications Minister,

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Speaker 3: Michelle Roland saying all right, you're exempt. We're actually going

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Speaker 3: to make you exempt from this along with Google, Classroom, Kids' Helplines,

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Speaker 3: my Circle, which are other types of social media apps

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Speaker 3: that are created to be educational and helpful, like they're

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Speaker 3: purpose driven, right, And so they went, YouTube, you're exempt.

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Speaker 3: But then the new Communications Minister, Annika Wells came along

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Speaker 3: and long story short, the e Safety Commissioner did this

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Speaker 3: survey and found that four and ten children had reported

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Speaker 3: exposure to harmful content on YouTube. And in this big

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Speaker 3: survey that they did where they asked a couple of

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Speaker 3: thousand kids about their experiences, YouTube was the most frequently

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Speaker 3: cited platform in the research in terms of harm. Here's

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Speaker 3: what the Prime Minister, Anthony Alberanezi said this morning.

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Speaker 5: Young people under the age of sixteen will not be

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Speaker 5: able to have accounts on YouTube. They will also not

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Speaker 5: be able to have accounts on Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, TikTok x,

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Speaker 5: amongst other platforms. We want astray and parents and families

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Speaker 5: to know that we've got you back. We know this

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Speaker 5: is not the only solution and there's more to do,

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Speaker 5: but it will make a difference. Parents want to get

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Speaker 5: their kids off their devices and onto the playing fields.

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Speaker 5: They want children to be able to enjoy their childhood

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Speaker 5: and that is what this is about.

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Speaker 3: Holly. Can you explain to me why the YouTube band

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Speaker 3: specifically is such a big deal and it's so controversial

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Speaker 3: because I feel like broadly a lot of people have

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Speaker 3: been on board and YouTube cross the line.

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Speaker 2: I know, just as an aside, if elbow sounds even

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Speaker 2: for him uncharacteristically like flat in that at the end

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Speaker 2: of that press conference, because I was watching it. So

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Speaker 2: he's bundled up in a coat, he's not looking great

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Speaker 2: and he's like at the end of it, he literally

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Speaker 2: says to all the reporters, can we just wrap this up?

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Speaker 2: Because me and everyone in Parliament House has a really

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Speaker 2: bad cold. Oh my god, it's like every workplace in

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Speaker 2: the world, because in Australia, I mean right here and

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Speaker 2: mom and me, we've had so many people out with flu. Apparently,

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Speaker 2: same thing's happening there. So Alba's like, I know this

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Speaker 2: is important, but you're really just like, hurry up.

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Speaker 4: I thought you were going to say, He's like, because

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Speaker 4: I really can't answer any questions about Snatcher and chiktok.

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Speaker 1: I don't understand it now the man has a cold.

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Speaker 2: But anyway, Jesse, You're right, this is big news because

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Speaker 2: I'm obviously, as a parent of a thirteen and a

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Speaker 2: fifteen year old, I'm right in the bull's eye of this,

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Speaker 2: and this has been a hot topic of conversation in

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Speaker 2: my house. My son, who is a precocious little bugger,

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Speaker 2: has been lobbying me in the kitchen about why YouTube

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Speaker 2: should not be included in this band for six months

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Speaker 2: once he's playing him today, but he's probably having a

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Speaker 2: very bad morning and.

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Speaker 3: Probably learned via YouTube about this probably incredible new legist like.

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Speaker 2: So, the interesting thing about this is is that YouTube Tube,

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Speaker 2: as we often say, is the new TV. Studies say

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Speaker 2: that nine out of ten American teenagers are on YouTube,

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Speaker 2: probably right now, but also every day, nine out of

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Speaker 2: ten teenagers are using YouTube, so it's enormously widespread. So

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Speaker 2: people are saying it's the new TV. But the thing

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Speaker 2: is that's true, but it's not only the new TV.

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Speaker 2: YouTube has YouTube shorts, which is exactly the same as TikTok,

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Speaker 2: exactly the same as Instagram reels, and that is something

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Speaker 2: that kids just watch compulsively. They also have one of

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Speaker 2: the most sophisticated algorithms, as we often talk about on

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Speaker 2: this show, that is geared towards extremism. So it will,

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Speaker 2: of all things. When I say extremism, I don't just

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Speaker 2: mean political extremism. I mean anything that you're into. It

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Speaker 2: will lead you further and further and further down that

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Speaker 2: rabbit hole. So it is genuinely a very very influential

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Speaker 2: force on young kids and there is no question. The

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Speaker 2: other thing that's worth noting about this for the people

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Speaker 2: who are really upset about it is they're not going

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Speaker 2: to ban YouTube kids. So, you know, parents all over

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Speaker 2: the country and the world, well the country, because it's

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Speaker 2: only Yourustralia at the moment. The proposing this are saying,

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Speaker 2: oh my god, but I put my kids in front

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Speaker 2: of YouTube all the time. That's where we watched the Wiggles,

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Speaker 2: That's where we watch you know, I used to play

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Speaker 2: the kids Twinkle Twinkle, Little Star whatever like all those

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Speaker 2: kind of You'll still be able to do all that.

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Speaker 1: That's fine, right, Rachel.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, YouTube kids will exist. It's going to ban kids

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Speaker 2: under sixteen from having their own YouTube account, so it's

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Speaker 2: not banning their eyeballs from ever seeing YouTube. They can

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Speaker 2: watch it with the family, they can watch it on

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Speaker 2: your account, but it stops you from having your account.

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Speaker 2: And the reason that's important is my son just turned thirteen,

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Speaker 2: and obviously he's been on quite a lot of different

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Speaker 2: platforms for a few years under my account or my

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Speaker 2: family account, but literally in the weeks before his thirteenth

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Speaker 2: birthday and then on his thirteenth birthday, I was bombarded

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Speaker 2: with emails saying Billy welcome, like, now you're an adult

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Speaker 2: for all intents and purposes, because the age limit was thirteen,

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Speaker 2: so they're only lifting it for three years. So with

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Speaker 2: a lot of people who are losing their minds about

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Speaker 2: it, it's like, think about it, really, Oh.

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Speaker 4: But there's a huge cognitive difference thirteen year old year old.

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Speaker 4: But I'd be interested also to nohole, did he have

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Speaker 4: any observations or did you see what changed in terms

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Speaker 4: of the content that was being suggested to him?

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Speaker 2: Well, I didn't do it. I didn't sign him up

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Speaker 2: as his own as his own platform anyway. But for

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Speaker 2: everyone from Facebook, because that's you know, the broader parent

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Speaker 2: company and everything, send you emails Google saying now you

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Speaker 2: can have your own account. And let's not pretend that

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Speaker 2: they don't have very specific reasons for wanting you to

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Speaker 2: do that. And that's all about advertising dollars.

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Speaker 4: So for people who don't know, Google own YouTube, and

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Speaker 4: Google Meta owned Facebook and Instagram and WhatsApp. TikTok is

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Speaker 4: owned by the Chinese government. A company called bitedowns doesn't.

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Speaker 4: Miranda Kerr owned Snapchat Snapchat. Miranda Kerr's husband owned Snapchat,

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Speaker 4: so that's kind of the universe. I find this all

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Speaker 4: so interesting, and I'm back in this world because of Luna.

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Speaker 4: So I'm back into kids TV and shows again, and

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Speaker 4: the place that I'm watching them is through YouTube. What's

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Speaker 4: really interesting is that I was watching YouTube with Lunar

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Speaker 4: this week Don't tell Mom. And there are so many

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Speaker 4: strict regulations around how you can advertise to children in

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Speaker 4: children's programming on television don't seem to exist on YouTube.

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Speaker 4: So we were being served ads while we were watching

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Speaker 4: for all kinds of things. I mean, the fact that

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Speaker 4: we're being served ads and she's too while we're watching.

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Speaker 4: Clearly something aimed at a two year old is revealing

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Speaker 4: in itself and concerning. But the thing that people need

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Speaker 4: to understand, and again I don't understand how snapchat works

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Speaker 4: are used to, but what Snapchat is used primarily for

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Speaker 4: among teenagers is messaging less than watching videos. But that's

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Speaker 4: like their communication channels.

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Speaker 2: They send each other relentless videos all day, every.

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Speaker 4: Day, all day, and that's where they organize parties, it's

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Speaker 4: where they talk to their friends, all of those kinds

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Speaker 4: of things in the same way similarly that we might use.

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Speaker 1: Group texts or WhatsApp groups.

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Speaker 4: But the other thing that people need to understand is

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Speaker 4: that you can watch things on TikTok. You can watch

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Speaker 4: things on YouTube without having an account, without having to

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Speaker 4: log in.

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Speaker 3: Actually, TikTok and Instagram, I believe that it's really really

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Speaker 3: hard to watch things if you do not have an account.

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Speaker 4: No, because until I waved the white flag and just

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Speaker 4: logged in because it was easier, I had a thing

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Speaker 4: where I would I'm in TikTok spuying on my phone,

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Speaker 4: but I was like, I'm not logging in. I'm not

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Speaker 4: going to give them my details. I'm just going to

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Speaker 4: use it. And you can literally go on there without

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Speaker 4: making an account and just I don't just mean watch

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Speaker 4: the odd thing. You can just get the full TikTok experience,

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Speaker 4: and the algorithm will learn you, and of course it'll

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Speaker 4: try to make you have an account because then it

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Speaker 4: can give you more information, and then you sign you

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Speaker 4: terms and conditions mean that they can basically look at

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Speaker 4: everything in your phone, which is terrific. But so this

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Speaker 4: idea of gatekeeping, I get it. The other thing that

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Speaker 4: people might say, well, on YouTube, for example, if you

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Speaker 4: use the family account, because back in the olden days,

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Speaker 4: people used to say, oh the Internet, if you just

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Speaker 4: have don't let kids have devices in their rooms. You

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Speaker 4: have one desktop computer in the family area so everybody

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Speaker 4: can see. So someone might say, okay, well kids can

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Speaker 4: use their parents' YouTube account and then at least the

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Speaker 4: parents can go and look at the history. Kids are

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Speaker 4: smarter than that. They're just do incognito. They just clear

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Speaker 4: their browsing history.

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Speaker 2: But I'm very frustrated by this argument that we shouldn't

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Speaker 2: try and implement these rules because kids will get around them.

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Speaker 2: Because the thing is the world is looking at Australia

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Speaker 2: over this. That is not an overstatement. I listened to

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Speaker 2: podcasts from America, from the UK, from all over the

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Speaker 2: world where they say everybody is looking at Australia to

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Speaker 2: see if we can pull this off, because it is

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Speaker 2: the first strike back in any way really and any

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Speaker 2: form really against you know, we would largely say the

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Speaker 2: big tech companies. We know that there is an overwhelming

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Speaker 2: amount of evidence that their proliferation over the past decade

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Speaker 2: has affected the mental and physical health of young people.

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Speaker 2: It has right, and so there is nothing wrong with

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Speaker 2: wanting to then tinker with those rules. It might not

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Speaker 2: be perfect you're not going to mean that no young

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Speaker 2: person will ever see a TikTok video ever again, or

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Speaker 2: you won't be able to get around it. But it's

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Speaker 2: the same thing as saying the legal drinking age is eighteen.

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Speaker 2: I know this has become a cliched argument, but that

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Speaker 2: doesn't mean that no fifteen year old ever drink beer

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Speaker 2: in the park. But it means that the community standard

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Speaker 2: is and the law is until you're eighteen, you're not

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Speaker 2: legally allowed to do it, and that sets a community

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Speaker 2: standard that generally. I think the government are right in

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Speaker 2: saying that parents want it because I think I know

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Speaker 2: this makes me sound pathetic, but it's easier for me

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Speaker 2: to be able to say to my son, this is

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Speaker 2: the law, like it's not about.

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Speaker 4: You and megetic I think that's incredibly helpful. Like you say,

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Speaker 4: put your seatbot on or the police will come and

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Speaker 4: arrest you. That's always a handy thing to tell you.

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Speaker 3: I have seen a lot of backlash to this and

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Speaker 3: I went deep on it and I could not support

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Speaker 3: this move more so, what it means if you do

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Speaker 3: not have your own YouTube account, you cannot comment and

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Speaker 3: you cannot post great like I think that if you

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Speaker 3: looked at a lot of the even the trolling or

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Speaker 3: all that kind of stuff. If you're a thirteen a

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Speaker 3: fourteen year old who doesn't understand consequences, your brain's not

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Speaker 3: fully developed. Like I don't think that's particularly helpful, especially

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Speaker 3: at a time when we're looking at child labor laws

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Speaker 3: and having children's faces all over the internet. So I

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Speaker 3: think that's a really positive thing. And for YouTube to

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Speaker 3: say that they are a video platform when they are

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Speaker 3: led by an algorithm. Interestingly, last month, the New York

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Speaker 3: Times did this big piece about how YouTube has basically

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Speaker 3: thrown out a lot of their moderation policies very similar

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Speaker 3: to Meta. You know how Meta had their fact checking.

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Speaker 3: Under a Trump government, they've kind of gone, you know what,

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Speaker 3: we are going to prioritize freedom of expression over harm.

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Speaker 1: In fact, Trump's demanded that they do. Yes.

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Speaker 3: So if I have a you know, whether they're five

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Speaker 3: or fifteen on YouTube, and that's what's being prioritized. I

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Speaker 3: also wanted to go deep on give me examples of

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Speaker 3: the harmful content. What are we talking? And what we're

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Speaker 3: talking is, let's say you have a child who really

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Speaker 3: likes sometimes I watch games really innocent endlessly. Yeah, then

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Speaker 3: it goes straight to weapons, like do you want to

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Speaker 3: watch someone shoot a gun? You've got gambling ads, gambling ads,

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Speaker 3: You've got stuff about weight loss, You've got stuff about

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Speaker 3: mental illness, You've got stuff about like skin bleaching, like

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Speaker 3: just all of these things that and I think that

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Speaker 3: the point that if it was on our television. Firstly,

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Speaker 3: there's an expectation of what is broadcast at seven pm

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Speaker 3: on network television.

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Speaker 4: And there are standards, and there are senses and government

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Speaker 4: regulations and advertising standards.

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Speaker 3: Yet generally it's happening in the living room where like

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Speaker 3: most of you might discuss it. But the idea that

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Speaker 3: your child could be privately what you think they're watching,

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Speaker 3: what they are watching, and not the same thing.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, what's important to understand for some listeners might not

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Speaker 4: really understand the way that the term social media platform

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Speaker 4: has changed. Because social media platform, as many people think

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Speaker 4: of it was you go on Facebook, you post some

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Speaker 4: photos of your holiday, you say what you're doing today,

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Speaker 4: you might share a link to something, you follow your friends,

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Speaker 4: they follow you. That's not what TikTok is, and it's

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Speaker 4: not what snapchat is really, it's certainly and not what

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Speaker 4: Instagram is anymore. It's not what YouTube is. So what

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Speaker 4: they have become is, as you say, television channels. And

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Speaker 4: I do agree with what they say about that. They

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Speaker 4: are entertainment channels, yes, but.

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Speaker 2: They're like to say they shouldn't be on the A,

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Speaker 2: so they're not only entertainment channels. That's what I think.

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Speaker 2: Algorithm that's there is some pushback and I definitely understand

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Speaker 2: it that says there's a lot of great stuff on YouTube.

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Speaker 2: There's a lot of great stuff on a TikTok. The's

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Speaker 2: a lot of great stuff for different communities, and that's

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Speaker 2: absolutely true, right. You know a lot of parents of

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Speaker 2: neurodiverse kids will talk about how their kids have sort

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Speaker 2: of found their tribes there, understood their conditions about it,

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Speaker 2: so many different things, and that's all true. But I

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Speaker 2: don't think this band takes that away.

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Speaker 4: I don't know.

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Speaker 2: My son who loves, for example, animation, he watches lots

430
00:21:13,341 --> 00:21:16,502
Speaker 2: of amazing animators on YouTube and it's very exciting, like

431
00:21:16,542 --> 00:21:19,102
Speaker 2: to see what they're doing and for him to get inspired.

432
00:21:19,422 --> 00:21:22,461
Speaker 2: He can still do that without having his own dedicated

433
00:21:22,542 --> 00:21:26,262
Speaker 2: account that he's using in private. Also, those people will

434
00:21:26,262 --> 00:21:29,261
Speaker 2: find different ways to surface their content if it's appropriate

435
00:21:29,302 --> 00:21:31,861
Speaker 2: for kids. Like I think we can catastrophize it a

436
00:21:31,861 --> 00:21:33,581
Speaker 2: bit and say, well, all the good things will get

437
00:21:33,621 --> 00:21:35,502
Speaker 2: thrown out. I don't think that's what's going to know.

438
00:21:35,861 --> 00:21:37,542
Speaker 3: There's been a lot of parents, as you say, of

439
00:21:37,742 --> 00:21:41,061
Speaker 3: kids who might have ADHD or autism and really heavily

440
00:21:41,061 --> 00:21:45,662
Speaker 3: rely on YouTube. But as you say, you can absolutely

441
00:21:46,061 --> 00:21:49,382
Speaker 3: still use it. I thought that Julie Inman Grant, who

442
00:21:49,422 --> 00:21:51,742
Speaker 3: is the EAT Safety Commissioner, she did this National Press

443
00:21:51,742 --> 00:21:55,862
Speaker 3: Club address last month. She had the best analogy about

444
00:21:56,022 --> 00:21:59,502
Speaker 3: water safety and she said that Australia are world leaders

445
00:21:59,782 --> 00:22:02,542
Speaker 3: and where on the global stage people are in awe

446
00:22:02,542 --> 00:22:04,901
Speaker 3: of what Australia did with water safety. And it started

447
00:22:04,901 --> 00:22:08,502
Speaker 3: with a mix of regulations, then education and community participation.

448
00:22:08,742 --> 00:22:11,702
Speaker 3: And she said, you're at the beach and parents keep

449
00:22:11,702 --> 00:22:14,581
Speaker 3: a watchful eye on your kids in the ocean, but

450
00:22:14,621 --> 00:22:17,061
Speaker 3: they're quietly confident in the knowledge that their kids will

451
00:22:17,061 --> 00:22:19,581
Speaker 3: be okay, not because the ocean is safe, but because

452
00:22:19,581 --> 00:22:21,861
Speaker 3: we've learned how to live beside it. And I thought

453
00:22:21,942 --> 00:22:24,061
Speaker 3: that was so true because even the pool fence, right,

454
00:22:24,101 --> 00:22:24,742
Speaker 3: you can go.

455
00:22:24,821 --> 00:22:25,861
Speaker 1: And flags at the beach.

456
00:22:25,942 --> 00:22:27,262
Speaker 3: Yeah, but like a pool fence, you go, well, they

457
00:22:27,302 --> 00:22:29,262
Speaker 3: could open the pool fans. My child loves the pool,

458
00:22:29,302 --> 00:22:30,061
Speaker 3: and it's like, yes.

459
00:22:29,942 --> 00:22:31,022
Speaker 1: So what's the point of pool fans?

460
00:22:31,101 --> 00:22:31,661
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly.

461
00:22:31,661 --> 00:22:32,542
Speaker 1: They could just bring a chair.

462
00:22:32,742 --> 00:22:32,982
Speaker 3: Yeah.

463
00:22:33,061 --> 00:22:36,022
Speaker 4: What I like is what you said wholly earlier about

464
00:22:36,542 --> 00:22:39,101
Speaker 4: this idea of because something's not perfect, we shouldn't do it,

465
00:22:39,222 --> 00:22:41,302
Speaker 4: or because there are ways around it, we shouldn't do it.

466
00:22:41,581 --> 00:22:44,982
Speaker 4: I think what it says, even if it's a mirage,

467
00:22:45,061 --> 00:22:49,302
Speaker 4: it says that we acknowledge in our society that there

468
00:22:49,381 --> 00:22:52,421
Speaker 4: is a level of potential harm and a level of

469
00:22:52,462 --> 00:22:58,102
Speaker 4: potential maturity required to deal with the unfiltered mass of

470
00:22:58,262 --> 00:23:01,861
Speaker 4: an algorithm and content, in the same way that yes,

471
00:23:01,901 --> 00:23:05,581
Speaker 4: alcohol can be consumed safely and it will be consumed illegally,

472
00:23:05,942 --> 00:23:09,341
Speaker 4: but we acknowledge that there's a certain age where you

473
00:23:09,341 --> 00:23:10,302
Speaker 4: can handle it.

474
00:23:10,222 --> 00:23:12,821
Speaker 1: And driving a car. And I think it's the same thing.

475
00:23:13,141 --> 00:23:15,821
Speaker 4: And you're right, the world is watching us, and that's

476
00:23:15,901 --> 00:23:18,821
Speaker 4: why the potential downside of this, or something to be

477
00:23:18,861 --> 00:23:20,781
Speaker 4: aware of, is that the tech platforms could make an

478
00:23:20,782 --> 00:23:23,461
Speaker 4: example of us, and they could I don't think this

479
00:23:23,542 --> 00:23:25,182
Speaker 4: is going to happen, but they could say, right, we're

480
00:23:25,182 --> 00:23:26,782
Speaker 4: out of Australia.

481
00:23:26,141 --> 00:23:28,421
Speaker 3: Because because they don't want to make that technology that

482
00:23:28,581 --> 00:23:30,742
Speaker 3: says you're right, how old, because.

483
00:23:30,502 --> 00:23:32,821
Speaker 4: The onus is on them to actually the government said

484
00:23:32,821 --> 00:23:34,101
Speaker 4: you need to work out how to do this, and

485
00:23:34,141 --> 00:23:35,461
Speaker 4: of course they know how to do this, they know

486
00:23:35,462 --> 00:23:38,302
Speaker 4: how to age gate, and there will be complaints about

487
00:23:38,341 --> 00:23:40,022
Speaker 4: the way they do it or whatever, but that doesn't

488
00:23:40,061 --> 00:23:40,861
Speaker 4: mean we don't try.

489
00:23:41,022 --> 00:23:43,302
Speaker 3: The stumping of the feet of the tech companies, I

490
00:23:43,341 --> 00:23:46,502
Speaker 3: think is probably indicative of how lucrative young people are

491
00:23:46,542 --> 00:23:49,661
Speaker 3: after that business model, which I am personally not comfortable with.

492
00:23:49,702 --> 00:23:51,141
Speaker 2: It makes me think it's a good idea.

493
00:23:51,942 --> 00:23:55,821
Speaker 4: After the break Sydney Sweeney Nazis and a big internet

494
00:23:55,861 --> 00:24:03,662
Speaker 4: drama about a jens ad, Sydney Sweeney is advertising eugenics.

495
00:24:03,982 --> 00:24:06,581
Speaker 4: That's probably not the headline that anyone was expecting when

496
00:24:06,581 --> 00:24:09,701
Speaker 4: a new campaign for American Eagle jeens was released this

497
00:24:09,742 --> 00:24:13,622
Speaker 4: week starring the very I was gonna say, buxome actress.

498
00:24:14,262 --> 00:24:15,741
Speaker 4: I sound a geriatric.

499
00:24:16,302 --> 00:24:20,581
Speaker 3: She's booby, she's very also a brilliant actress. Have some

500
00:24:20,621 --> 00:24:22,381
Speaker 3: respect she is she is.

501
00:24:22,462 --> 00:24:24,181
Speaker 4: I'm going to talk you through this because there's a

502
00:24:24,222 --> 00:24:27,142
Speaker 4: few steps picture this. I'm going to describe the ad right,

503
00:24:27,702 --> 00:24:31,141
Speaker 4: Sydney Sweeney is lying back on a lounge while also

504
00:24:31,262 --> 00:24:33,182
Speaker 4: inexplicably buttoning up her jeans.

505
00:24:33,341 --> 00:24:35,222
Speaker 3: Yeah, it sounds like every jeans out I've ever seen.

506
00:24:35,341 --> 00:24:38,222
Speaker 4: Yeah, she's wearing a tight denim jacket with nothing underneath,

507
00:24:38,262 --> 00:24:40,702
Speaker 4: and it's sort of falling off her shoulders, and she's

508
00:24:40,702 --> 00:24:43,581
Speaker 4: writhing a little bit in that way. I've lying on

509
00:24:43,621 --> 00:24:45,701
Speaker 4: a couch putting up her jeans, and as the camera

510
00:24:45,821 --> 00:24:48,181
Speaker 4: pans up her body, here is what she says.

511
00:24:48,502 --> 00:24:51,821
Speaker 5: Jeans are passed down from parents to a spring, often

512
00:24:51,861 --> 00:24:56,222
Speaker 5: determining treits like her color, personality, and even eye color.

513
00:24:57,182 --> 00:25:00,542
Speaker 5: My jeans are blue, Sydney's Twinny Hasbury Keynes.

514
00:25:00,901 --> 00:25:03,821
Speaker 4: Okay, so when she says my jean's blue, the camera

515
00:25:03,901 --> 00:25:05,821
Speaker 4: lands on her face, it's pounded up her body, and

516
00:25:05,861 --> 00:25:06,542
Speaker 4: her eyes.

517
00:25:06,341 --> 00:25:09,741
Speaker 1: Are blue as well as well as as well us

518
00:25:09,742 --> 00:25:10,261
Speaker 1: her genes.

519
00:25:11,022 --> 00:25:14,462
Speaker 4: The denim jens versus genetic genes is a pretty basic

520
00:25:14,542 --> 00:25:16,181
Speaker 4: dad joke pun right well.

521
00:25:16,542 --> 00:25:18,742
Speaker 1: Actually, also, no, not today.

522
00:25:18,502 --> 00:25:21,742
Speaker 4: Satan, because in a very bad day for everyone who

523
00:25:21,782 --> 00:25:25,221
Speaker 4: was involved in this ad, the reference to jeans and

524
00:25:25,262 --> 00:25:28,901
Speaker 4: the fact that Sydney Sweeney is blonde and blue eyed

525
00:25:29,022 --> 00:25:32,661
Speaker 4: and coded she's a bit coded maga, not because of

526
00:25:32,702 --> 00:25:35,182
Speaker 4: her own personal beliefs. But because she's written about having

527
00:25:35,302 --> 00:25:37,661
Speaker 4: family that are conservative, well.

528
00:25:37,542 --> 00:25:40,381
Speaker 3: What actually, So, there are two reasons she's coded MAGA.

529
00:25:40,422 --> 00:25:42,861
Speaker 3: The first is because she put pictures on Instagram once

530
00:25:42,942 --> 00:25:45,502
Speaker 3: and it appeared that people and family members in the

531
00:25:45,502 --> 00:25:48,381
Speaker 3: background wearing Maga hats were wearing Maga hats. And the

532
00:25:48,502 --> 00:25:51,421
Speaker 3: second reason, I think is because recently she was at

533
00:25:51,462 --> 00:25:54,941
Speaker 3: Jeff Bezos's wedding and Jeff Bezos donated the money to Trump.

534
00:25:55,101 --> 00:25:55,901
Speaker 3: I think that that's.

535
00:25:55,821 --> 00:25:57,822
Speaker 1: The court slightly long bee.

536
00:25:58,061 --> 00:25:59,782
Speaker 3: It is, but hello, welcome to the Internet.

537
00:25:59,901 --> 00:26:02,821
Speaker 1: Yes, I'm so shocked that it's leaping to conclusion.

538
00:26:03,821 --> 00:26:07,302
Speaker 4: So if you take that into account, you're going to

539
00:26:07,381 --> 00:26:10,461
Speaker 4: have to make a slightly large leap to the idea

540
00:26:10,621 --> 00:26:14,462
Speaker 4: that American Eagle and Sydney Sweeney are promoting eugenics, which

541
00:26:14,502 --> 00:26:18,341
Speaker 4: is the basis of Nazism. Yes, and you may or

542
00:26:18,381 --> 00:26:20,421
Speaker 4: hopefully have not seen a bunch of Tetoks that are

543
00:26:20,462 --> 00:26:24,542
Speaker 4: saying it's giving Nazi propaganda, which is an idea that's

544
00:26:24,542 --> 00:26:27,662
Speaker 4: sort of gaining steam. We're going to unpack this slowly, Jesse,

545
00:26:27,742 --> 00:26:29,262
Speaker 4: can you please explain eugenics.

546
00:26:29,542 --> 00:26:31,742
Speaker 3: You know, it's not a good day when American Eagle

547
00:26:31,782 --> 00:26:35,662
Speaker 3: are definitely on Google going eugenics definition, because they're going,

548
00:26:35,702 --> 00:26:37,581
Speaker 3: I think we did something bad. We just don't know why,

549
00:26:37,581 --> 00:26:40,861
Speaker 3: we're not sure what we did. So eugenics is essentially

550
00:26:41,101 --> 00:26:45,621
Speaker 3: about looking at humans through the prism of desirable traits

551
00:26:45,621 --> 00:26:49,022
Speaker 3: and undesirable traits and improving. That's not my word. It's

552
00:26:49,022 --> 00:26:53,101
Speaker 3: a word that's steeped in racism and ableism the quality

553
00:26:53,141 --> 00:26:56,981
Speaker 3: of the human population, and it's linked to Nazism because

554
00:26:56,982 --> 00:27:00,302
Speaker 3: it was central to Hitler's ideology, right and the race,

555
00:27:00,381 --> 00:27:03,221
Speaker 3: the Aryan race. They saw the Aryan population, which was

556
00:27:03,262 --> 00:27:07,742
Speaker 3: blue eyes, blonde hair, as superior skinned. And it started

557
00:27:07,782 --> 00:27:11,542
Speaker 3: in the thirties. Hundreds of thousands of people were forcibly sterilized,

558
00:27:11,661 --> 00:27:13,821
Speaker 3: and they might have been people who were mentally ill,

559
00:27:14,302 --> 00:27:18,181
Speaker 3: who were people of color, and eventually this led to

560
00:27:18,581 --> 00:27:21,622
Speaker 3: obviously a genocide which resulted in the death of six

561
00:27:21,661 --> 00:27:24,421
Speaker 3: million Jewish people, and then on top of that people

562
00:27:24,462 --> 00:27:28,821
Speaker 3: who had disabilities and all sorts of things and homosexuals. Yes,

563
00:27:29,141 --> 00:27:33,581
Speaker 3: what people might not know is that eugenics has also

564
00:27:33,621 --> 00:27:36,901
Speaker 3: a very important history in the US, and so in

565
00:27:36,942 --> 00:27:42,262
Speaker 3: the thirties and forties, the US forcibly sterilized sixty thousand people,

566
00:27:42,341 --> 00:27:45,342
Speaker 3: people of color, poor people, people with mental illnesses, all

567
00:27:45,341 --> 00:27:48,542
Speaker 3: that kind of stuff. And so there are elements of

568
00:27:48,621 --> 00:27:53,461
Speaker 3: I suppose what's happening now with Ice, with immigration, with

569
00:27:53,982 --> 00:27:57,741
Speaker 3: Trump's rhetoric that feels reminiscent of whether it be a

570
00:27:57,782 --> 00:28:00,542
Speaker 3: master race or something like fascism has been thrown around

571
00:28:00,581 --> 00:28:04,381
Speaker 3: a lot. So that's the context in which a white skinned,

572
00:28:04,422 --> 00:28:09,822
Speaker 3: blue eyed, blonde head Sidney Sweeney saying genes is perhaps

573
00:28:10,022 --> 00:28:13,941
Speaker 3: read a certain way. I think it would be such

574
00:28:13,942 --> 00:28:19,061
Speaker 3: a bad faith, dishonest reading to think that American Eagle

575
00:28:19,182 --> 00:28:21,941
Speaker 3: was trying to promote eugenics. Is that a fair thing

576
00:28:21,982 --> 00:28:22,341
Speaker 3: to say?

577
00:28:22,901 --> 00:28:28,222
Speaker 2: I am not sure about that. I think I hate

578
00:28:28,262 --> 00:28:30,581
Speaker 2: this whole story so much. I hate this whole story

579
00:28:30,621 --> 00:28:34,621
Speaker 2: so much because, as we say, at least once a show,

580
00:28:34,702 --> 00:28:39,102
Speaker 2: we're in an attention economy. Yeah, And every single thing

581
00:28:39,582 --> 00:28:43,142
Speaker 2: that is positive in the culture, particularly American culture at

582
00:28:43,142 --> 00:28:44,822
Speaker 2: the minute, is read through a political lens. No matter

583
00:28:44,862 --> 00:28:47,742
Speaker 2: what it is, is this ad left or right, red

584
00:28:47,822 --> 00:28:50,782
Speaker 2: or blue? Is this ad red or blue right? And

585
00:28:51,222 --> 00:28:53,662
Speaker 2: they are playing with the idea that you know, as

586
00:28:53,661 --> 00:28:56,542
Speaker 2: you've already explained that for whatever reason, Sidney Sweeney is

587
00:28:56,542 --> 00:29:00,782
Speaker 2: maga coded. It is very unlikely that nobody ever thought

588
00:29:00,822 --> 00:29:03,542
Speaker 2: that mentioning jeans and gens wasn't going to upset people

589
00:29:03,582 --> 00:29:04,222
Speaker 2: with blue eyes.

590
00:29:04,302 --> 00:29:06,421
Speaker 3: I think what they were saying with blue eyes with

591
00:29:06,502 --> 00:29:08,302
Speaker 3: Sidney Sweeney has good genes. I think what they were

592
00:29:08,342 --> 00:29:09,302
Speaker 3: saying was she's hot and.

593
00:29:09,262 --> 00:29:11,942
Speaker 2: She's go yeah, I totally I agree with that. But

594
00:29:11,982 --> 00:29:16,022
Speaker 2: my point is, there is nothing bad for American eagle

595
00:29:16,582 --> 00:29:19,382
Speaker 2: right now about having the entire world saying American eagle,

596
00:29:19,382 --> 00:29:21,661
Speaker 2: American eagle, American eagle, over and over again.

597
00:29:21,822 --> 00:29:23,782
Speaker 3: Oh, I think there is something very bad. I don't

598
00:29:23,782 --> 00:29:25,461
Speaker 3: think you want to be related to EU Jenny, but.

599
00:29:25,462 --> 00:29:27,781
Speaker 2: I don't think that they think that they are. And

600
00:29:27,862 --> 00:29:29,542
Speaker 2: I think they think this is a storm and a

601
00:29:29,582 --> 00:29:32,222
Speaker 2: teacup that'll be gone in two days. And I think

602
00:29:32,222 --> 00:29:34,342
Speaker 2: that what you have to remember that because a lot

603
00:29:34,342 --> 00:29:37,342
Speaker 2: of the Internet that we consume is probably left leaning, progressive,

604
00:29:37,382 --> 00:29:40,502
Speaker 2: they're up in arms about this. Half of America did

605
00:29:40,582 --> 00:29:43,142
Speaker 2: vote for Donald Trump. Half of America is red. They

606
00:29:43,182 --> 00:29:45,262
Speaker 2: buy jeans like it's not.

607
00:29:45,661 --> 00:29:47,862
Speaker 1: It doesn't mean that you voted for Donald Trump. O

608
00:29:47,942 --> 00:29:49,661
Speaker 1: god believe I know.

609
00:29:49,742 --> 00:29:53,582
Speaker 2: What I mean is no, of course not is not negative.

610
00:29:53,942 --> 00:29:56,342
Speaker 2: But also what I mean is those people are more

611
00:29:56,422 --> 00:29:58,022
Speaker 2: likely to see this is ridiculous.

612
00:29:58,302 --> 00:29:59,022
Speaker 1: Yes, So I.

613
00:29:59,022 --> 00:30:02,542
Speaker 2: Don't mean that they will think, oh, yeah, eugenic's great. Yeah,

614
00:30:02,542 --> 00:30:04,822
Speaker 2: she's the superior being. I don't mean, oh, they're trying

615
00:30:04,822 --> 00:30:07,302
Speaker 2: to sell jeans to white supremacists. That's not what I'm saying.

616
00:30:07,302 --> 00:30:10,262
Speaker 2: What I'm saying is it plays immediately into the hands off.

617
00:30:10,302 --> 00:30:12,461
Speaker 2: They're a big kerfuffle or blow up, just like it

618
00:30:12,462 --> 00:30:14,422
Speaker 2: did about snow White the movie, just like it did

619
00:30:14,422 --> 00:30:17,582
Speaker 2: about whatever. A large sway of the population will be like,

620
00:30:17,622 --> 00:30:19,302
Speaker 2: this is ridiculous. You can't even look at a hot

621
00:30:19,342 --> 00:30:20,422
Speaker 2: woman in jeans anymore.

622
00:30:20,582 --> 00:30:21,902
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's good.

623
00:30:21,702 --> 00:30:24,942
Speaker 2: For American eagle. A small percentage of the population who

624
00:30:24,982 --> 00:30:27,181
Speaker 2: understand the history of eugenics, as you've just explained it

625
00:30:27,182 --> 00:30:29,542
Speaker 2: to us, Jesse, will be upset about this. It's good

626
00:30:29,582 --> 00:30:31,782
Speaker 2: for them. And the thing that is distasteful about that

627
00:30:31,822 --> 00:30:37,102
Speaker 2: whole thing is you're dragging something very serious and you know, deeply,

628
00:30:37,222 --> 00:30:41,462
Speaker 2: deeply awful. Isn't the word to use into a conversation

629
00:30:41,502 --> 00:30:44,782
Speaker 2: about Sidney Sweeney and her jeens. It's ridiculous, It's a distraction.

630
00:30:45,062 --> 00:30:46,062
Speaker 2: It's so unimportant.

631
00:30:46,142 --> 00:30:48,302
Speaker 3: There was a great article in the Atlantic that Mey

632
00:30:48,422 --> 00:30:51,302
Speaker 3: you sent around and it said, each of these statements,

633
00:30:51,342 --> 00:30:55,021
Speaker 3: because everyone's making a statement on TikTok or whatever, becomes

634
00:30:55,062 --> 00:30:57,902
Speaker 3: fodder for someone else's statement. People are not quite talking

635
00:30:58,022 --> 00:31:01,422
Speaker 3: past one another, but clearly nobody's listening to anyone else.

636
00:31:01,782 --> 00:31:04,661
Speaker 3: And the reason that's so true is because on the

637
00:31:04,702 --> 00:31:07,142
Speaker 3: back of these genes, which Sidney was involved in designing

638
00:31:07,182 --> 00:31:12,262
Speaker 3: as a butterfly, and that butterfly is representative of domestic

639
00:31:12,302 --> 00:31:15,981
Speaker 3: violence awareness, and one hundred percent of the purchase price

640
00:31:16,222 --> 00:31:19,742
Speaker 3: of these Sydney genes is being donated to Crisis text Line,

641
00:31:19,782 --> 00:31:21,782
Speaker 3: which is a not for profit twenty four to seven

642
00:31:21,942 --> 00:31:22,941
Speaker 3: mental health support.

643
00:31:22,782 --> 00:31:25,701
Speaker 2: Which was probably Sydney Sweeney's condition for doing this.

644
00:31:25,902 --> 00:31:26,741
Speaker 3: Yep, exactly right.

645
00:31:26,782 --> 00:31:29,622
Speaker 4: So all of this was before the controversy, not in

646
00:31:29,661 --> 00:31:30,342
Speaker 4: response to it.

647
00:31:30,462 --> 00:31:32,822
Speaker 3: So you've got to say, a woman who probably went

648
00:31:33,142 --> 00:31:35,181
Speaker 3: trying to do something good. Oh yeah, it looks exy,

649
00:31:35,222 --> 00:31:36,981
Speaker 3: but like all of this money is going to domestic

650
00:31:37,102 --> 00:31:42,342
Speaker 3: violence instead. We're over here, I think, completely diluting the

651
00:31:42,462 --> 00:31:46,982
Speaker 3: meaning of Nazi exactly, which is unhelpful. And while you've

652
00:31:46,982 --> 00:31:50,062
Speaker 3: got these tiny corners yelling, you do have a vast

653
00:31:50,182 --> 00:31:53,702
Speaker 3: majority of the population going this is wokism gone mad

654
00:31:53,902 --> 00:31:57,062
Speaker 3: who work next time Nazism is yelled.

655
00:31:56,782 --> 00:31:59,182
Speaker 2: Exactly, they might buy the genes, they might not buy

656
00:31:59,222 --> 00:32:02,941
Speaker 2: the genes, but it's sort of throwing blood in the water.

657
00:32:03,822 --> 00:32:05,542
Speaker 2: The only people it benefits of the people who make

658
00:32:05,542 --> 00:32:07,221
Speaker 2: the genes, in my opinion, So.

659
00:32:07,142 --> 00:32:08,461
Speaker 1: You think they did it deliberately.

660
00:32:08,702 --> 00:32:11,902
Speaker 2: I don't think that's did it deliberately, but I think

661
00:32:11,942 --> 00:32:15,422
Speaker 2: that it's very unlikely that nobody considered this mcme.

662
00:32:15,542 --> 00:32:18,822
Speaker 4: Wow, it's interesting because you know, Jean's ads are famous

663
00:32:18,822 --> 00:32:22,502
Speaker 4: for this, and the og was Brookshields, who was very young,

664
00:32:22,902 --> 00:32:24,982
Speaker 4: sitting on the floor in her jeans saying nothing comes

665
00:32:24,982 --> 00:32:26,981
Speaker 4: between me and my Calvin's with a sort of her

666
00:32:27,022 --> 00:32:27,582
Speaker 4: legs spread.

667
00:32:28,262 --> 00:32:29,062
Speaker 1: And so you're right.

668
00:32:29,222 --> 00:32:31,102
Speaker 4: I mean in the attention economy, we saw it with

669
00:32:31,182 --> 00:32:33,622
Speaker 4: Astronomer last week and the Coldplay CEO and their response

670
00:32:33,661 --> 00:32:37,221
Speaker 4: to it with the Gwyneth video. You make this ad

671
00:32:37,542 --> 00:32:39,382
Speaker 4: and then you let the internet do your work. You

672
00:32:39,422 --> 00:32:41,862
Speaker 4: don't have to spend five million dollars on a Super

673
00:32:41,862 --> 00:32:45,462
Speaker 4: Bowl slot or millions of dollars on a YouTube campaign

674
00:32:45,622 --> 00:32:49,062
Speaker 4: or mainstream media. You just let the Internet do its work.

675
00:32:49,102 --> 00:32:49,542
Speaker 1: And you're right.

676
00:32:49,622 --> 00:32:54,022
Speaker 4: It's exhausting when it feels like everything just becomes a

677
00:32:54,182 --> 00:32:58,421
Speaker 4: tool for everybody to beat their drum, and then it

678
00:32:58,422 --> 00:33:00,582
Speaker 4: becomes more content. And I know this sounds ironic because

679
00:33:00,582 --> 00:33:02,221
Speaker 4: we're now talking about it, but what we try to

680
00:33:02,222 --> 00:33:07,262
Speaker 4: do on this show is not just jump onto internet drums,

681
00:33:07,942 --> 00:33:11,782
Speaker 4: but to unpack what's going on, sort of the mechanics.

682
00:33:11,822 --> 00:33:13,661
Speaker 3: I don't approach it with a little bit of reason

683
00:33:13,661 --> 00:33:17,702
Speaker 3: because I think we can all agree Eugenic's very very bad. Yeah,

684
00:33:17,782 --> 00:33:21,421
Speaker 3: Domestic Violence Crisis Hotline. Good love that for Sydney supportive.

685
00:33:22,382 --> 00:33:25,542
Speaker 3: I have a question I've been meaning to ask you too,

686
00:33:25,902 --> 00:33:30,382
Speaker 3: my slightly ever so slightly older friends, Maya. We went

687
00:33:30,422 --> 00:33:34,502
Speaker 3: to Nicki Glazer recently and there was this whole bit

688
00:33:34,542 --> 00:33:39,222
Speaker 3: that she did she's currently in perimenopause and this whole yeah, yeah,

689
00:33:39,302 --> 00:33:41,142
Speaker 3: I think she might be like mid forties or something.

690
00:33:41,062 --> 00:33:42,102
Speaker 1: Yeah, like forty three.

691
00:33:42,262 --> 00:33:46,382
Speaker 3: She did this whole bit about how what she didn't expect,

692
00:33:46,422 --> 00:33:49,902
Speaker 3: what no one warned her, was that the discharge would

693
00:33:49,902 --> 00:33:53,181
Speaker 3: stop right and she said that every now and then

694
00:33:53,262 --> 00:33:56,702
Speaker 3: we might both just look at her. What she talks

695
00:33:56,742 --> 00:33:58,862
Speaker 3: about is that it's quite irregular now. So she'll be

696
00:33:58,862 --> 00:34:01,062
Speaker 3: out ordering a coffee and it's just like and she

697
00:34:01,102 --> 00:34:03,862
Speaker 3: gets like a little octopus who's inking like a little

698
00:34:04,302 --> 00:34:07,942
Speaker 3: spot discharge, and she almost wants to jar it, and she.

699
00:34:07,862 --> 00:34:10,701
Speaker 1: Feels affectionate because affection and chants to keep it like.

700
00:34:12,542 --> 00:34:14,302
Speaker 2: It's finite.

701
00:34:14,702 --> 00:34:19,462
Speaker 3: Ladies, is that discharge finite? Because I was not it is.

702
00:34:20,661 --> 00:34:22,982
Speaker 2: Ruth is literally looking like she's trying to stop herself

703
00:34:22,982 --> 00:34:23,462
Speaker 2: from throwing.

704
00:34:23,701 --> 00:34:25,861
Speaker 1: Do you know what, I haven't thought about that? But

705
00:34:26,142 --> 00:34:29,702
Speaker 1: in her line, things get dry and.

706
00:34:29,181 --> 00:34:33,542
Speaker 2: Irregular, and sometimes a lot, and sometimes she's right, I

707
00:34:33,582 --> 00:34:35,902
Speaker 2: hadn't thought about it either, But it's true, sometimes a

708
00:34:35,902 --> 00:34:37,102
Speaker 2: lot and sometimes not at all.

709
00:34:37,181 --> 00:34:39,381
Speaker 3: Do you feel like nostalgic?

710
00:34:39,622 --> 00:34:42,502
Speaker 4: Do you know when you have your most discharge actually

711
00:34:42,741 --> 00:34:46,741
Speaker 4: is when you are ovulating, yes, because that's when it

712
00:34:46,781 --> 00:34:49,221
Speaker 4: becomes that egg white. And there's a type of contraception

713
00:34:49,302 --> 00:34:51,341
Speaker 4: called the Billings method where you go like that. You've

714
00:34:51,342 --> 00:34:53,022
Speaker 4: got to put it between two fingers, and if it's

715
00:34:53,062 --> 00:34:54,982
Speaker 4: stretchy like egg white, then you're fertile.

716
00:34:55,062 --> 00:34:59,102
Speaker 3: Okay, stretch that's not referring to. That's referring to.

717
00:34:59,701 --> 00:35:02,261
Speaker 4: So literally, if you take it between two fingers and

718
00:35:02,302 --> 00:35:03,502
Speaker 4: go like this and it.

719
00:35:03,582 --> 00:35:06,142
Speaker 3: Stretches, then you're ovulating.

720
00:35:05,701 --> 00:35:06,902
Speaker 1: That like an egg white wood.

721
00:35:07,221 --> 00:35:10,022
Speaker 4: Then you're ovulating time if you want to a baby,

722
00:35:10,102 --> 00:35:11,502
Speaker 4: or it's not time if you don't want to make it.

723
00:35:11,661 --> 00:35:14,462
Speaker 2: Remember we talked about that in the subs episode we

724
00:35:14,542 --> 00:35:16,582
Speaker 2: did about fertility and how it was an old man

725
00:35:16,622 --> 00:35:17,901
Speaker 2: who explained that to me once.

726
00:35:18,062 --> 00:35:18,701
Speaker 3: And that's what a.

727
00:35:18,661 --> 00:35:21,781
Speaker 1: Lot of religious people are, people that can't That's the man.

728
00:35:22,422 --> 00:35:25,901
Speaker 4: The Billings methods. It's well known John Roger Billings bill

729
00:35:26,102 --> 00:35:26,901
Speaker 4: feel down the road.

730
00:35:27,181 --> 00:35:28,902
Speaker 3: Do you think that we should all just feel a

731
00:35:28,942 --> 00:35:34,382
Speaker 3: little bit more kind of warmth and like protection of

732
00:35:34,422 --> 00:35:36,382
Speaker 3: our discharge because we go You're not going to be

733
00:35:36,382 --> 00:35:37,341
Speaker 3: here one day and I'm going.

734
00:35:37,342 --> 00:35:38,982
Speaker 4: To when you've got You know, we talk about the

735
00:35:38,982 --> 00:35:41,421
Speaker 4: first and the lasts. You don't realize the last until

736
00:35:41,422 --> 00:35:44,542
Speaker 4: they're behind you. So you're washing your nickers and you're like, oh,

737
00:35:44,582 --> 00:35:45,381
Speaker 4: they're quite clean up.

738
00:35:45,542 --> 00:35:48,822
Speaker 2: Basically, you're leaking juice at all times.

739
00:35:49,181 --> 00:35:54,301
Speaker 1: Hold onto your juice. Juice you get older, joy enjoy

740
00:35:54,342 --> 00:35:55,022
Speaker 1: your juice.

741
00:35:55,862 --> 00:35:56,462
Speaker 3: Friends.

742
00:35:56,982 --> 00:36:00,142
Speaker 2: FAFFO is the new let them I'll tell you what

743
00:36:00,181 --> 00:36:01,062
Speaker 2: the hell that means.

744
00:36:01,181 --> 00:36:03,022
Speaker 1: After the break out loud As.

745
00:36:03,062 --> 00:36:04,781
Speaker 4: If you want to listen to us every day of

746
00:36:04,822 --> 00:36:07,582
Speaker 4: the week, you can get access to exclusive segments on

747
00:36:07,701 --> 00:36:12,062
Speaker 4: Tuesdays and Thursdays coming among me a subscriber, follow the

748
00:36:12,102 --> 00:36:14,622
Speaker 4: link in the show notes to subscribe and support us,

749
00:36:14,701 --> 00:36:17,341
Speaker 4: and a big thank you to all our current subscribers.

750
00:36:23,142 --> 00:36:25,622
Speaker 2: It was only a matter of time before let them

751
00:36:25,862 --> 00:36:29,262
Speaker 2: had a bit of a punk rock makeover. Meet FAFFO,

752
00:36:29,701 --> 00:36:33,741
Speaker 2: which stands for fuck around and find out, and it

753
00:36:33,862 --> 00:36:37,182
Speaker 2: is everywhere you look at the moment, particularly in parenting speak,

754
00:36:37,221 --> 00:36:40,862
Speaker 2: but not only which we'll get into maybe also once

755
00:36:40,942 --> 00:36:47,582
Speaker 2: known as play stupid games, win stupid prices. What FAFO

756
00:36:47,741 --> 00:36:52,221
Speaker 2: is all about is embracing the natural consequences of your actions.

757
00:36:52,342 --> 00:36:57,342
Speaker 2: So the parenting gurus who embraced it are saying helicoptering,

758
00:36:57,701 --> 00:37:02,942
Speaker 2: snow plowing, gentle parenting. Basically, the past couple of decades

759
00:37:02,982 --> 00:37:08,302
Speaker 2: of parenting trends towards remove any negative experience, makes smooth

760
00:37:08,342 --> 00:37:10,741
Speaker 2: the path for your kids. Try and make sure they

761
00:37:10,781 --> 00:37:16,421
Speaker 2: avoid any minor accident or inconvenience or disappointment. Has as

762
00:37:16,462 --> 00:37:18,982
Speaker 2: we've been reading about for a long time now screwed

763
00:37:18,982 --> 00:37:23,661
Speaker 2: everything up better FAFO. So in parenting world this would

764
00:37:23,661 --> 00:37:25,861
Speaker 2: look like, for example, kid doesn't want to wear a coat,

765
00:37:26,022 --> 00:37:29,142
Speaker 2: Kid gets cold, Kid doesn't like what's for dinner. Kids

766
00:37:29,181 --> 00:37:32,982
Speaker 2: get no dinner. Kid insists on climbing tree, Kid breaks.

767
00:37:32,781 --> 00:37:35,982
Speaker 3: Arm, which is all fun until you've got to take

768
00:37:36,022 --> 00:37:37,741
Speaker 3: them to the emergency room and no one wants to

769
00:37:37,781 --> 00:37:38,181
Speaker 3: be there.

770
00:37:38,502 --> 00:37:41,502
Speaker 2: So, although FAFO at the minute is very big in

771
00:37:41,582 --> 00:37:44,261
Speaker 2: parenting circle, it's been around a long time and has

772
00:37:44,302 --> 00:37:47,102
Speaker 2: a whole lot of applications. I can think of people

773
00:37:47,102 --> 00:37:50,102
Speaker 2: in my life who are definitely more FAFO than others.

774
00:37:50,342 --> 00:37:52,942
Speaker 1: So if you're FAFO, does it mean high risk?

775
00:37:52,982 --> 00:37:56,022
Speaker 2: A kind of like try me, you know what I mean?

776
00:37:56,661 --> 00:37:59,462
Speaker 2: So a friend of mine who isn't afraid of confrontation, right,

777
00:37:59,462 --> 00:38:01,822
Speaker 2: if you're afraid of confrontation, you're not going to be FAFO.

778
00:38:01,902 --> 00:38:03,582
Speaker 2: So actually, even though I've said I kind of like

779
00:38:03,622 --> 00:38:07,062
Speaker 2: it in theory, I hate confrontation because if you're FAFO,

780
00:38:07,142 --> 00:38:10,102
Speaker 2: you're kind of like try me, you know, you can

781
00:38:10,462 --> 00:38:13,022
Speaker 2: interest in that idea of like, I'm not going to

782
00:38:13,062 --> 00:38:16,542
Speaker 2: tell you you can't, but if you do, you'll.

783
00:38:16,261 --> 00:38:16,901
Speaker 3: Know about it.

784
00:38:17,221 --> 00:38:19,982
Speaker 2: We've all like no parents in that world who have

785
00:38:20,062 --> 00:38:22,422
Speaker 2: been like that, our own parents or people in our

786
00:38:22,422 --> 00:38:25,462
Speaker 2: world who are very much you wouldn't want to test them.

787
00:38:25,741 --> 00:38:27,821
Speaker 2: They would make you pay for it, you know, what

788
00:38:27,822 --> 00:38:30,062
Speaker 2: I mean, we all know people like that, right.

789
00:38:30,382 --> 00:38:32,341
Speaker 4: And the thing also about this is that I keep

790
00:38:32,382 --> 00:38:36,741
Speaker 4: thinking different people have different capacity to assess risk, so

791
00:38:36,781 --> 00:38:39,741
Speaker 4: that idea of fuck around and find out some people

792
00:38:39,822 --> 00:38:42,022
Speaker 4: might not even be aware that they're fucking around, Like

793
00:38:42,102 --> 00:38:43,022
Speaker 4: some people might.

794
00:38:42,902 --> 00:38:44,381
Speaker 1: Be like, yeah, no, this is not a risk.

795
00:38:44,422 --> 00:38:47,102
Speaker 4: I can do this, it's fine, and others might just

796
00:38:47,102 --> 00:38:48,862
Speaker 4: be all like they're quite risk averse.

797
00:38:49,102 --> 00:38:53,622
Speaker 3: It feels a little bit very individualistic and very antagonistic,

798
00:38:53,741 --> 00:38:56,221
Speaker 3: like everyone's kind of your enemy, like you're kind of

799
00:38:56,302 --> 00:38:58,381
Speaker 3: waiting for everyone to cross you.

800
00:38:58,502 --> 00:38:59,701
Speaker 1: It's not very coom by ours.

801
00:38:59,741 --> 00:39:02,622
Speaker 3: It's not very coombyer, and it's not very collective. I

802
00:39:02,862 --> 00:39:06,142
Speaker 3: liked the translation from a parent that was out feral.

803
00:39:06,261 --> 00:39:09,181
Speaker 3: They're feral, so when they become feral and do something.

804
00:39:09,181 --> 00:39:11,181
Speaker 3: There was example of a I think it was in

805
00:39:11,181 --> 00:39:14,622
Speaker 3: the Washington Post article where their child kept spraying them

806
00:39:14,622 --> 00:39:16,382
Speaker 3: with a water gun and they were going, don't spray me,

807
00:39:16,422 --> 00:39:17,942
Speaker 3: don't spray me, and they did it again and just

808
00:39:17,982 --> 00:39:20,381
Speaker 3: threw them in the pool just to be like, you've

809
00:39:20,382 --> 00:39:23,701
Speaker 3: annoyed me. So here's the consequence. And it's like you

810
00:39:23,741 --> 00:39:26,741
Speaker 3: haven't hurt the kid, but the kid knows of annoyed mum,

811
00:39:26,822 --> 00:39:29,821
Speaker 3: and now I'm all wet. There's an element of this

812
00:39:30,022 --> 00:39:35,341
Speaker 3: that starts veering a little bit into neglect. Neglect or

813
00:39:35,382 --> 00:39:38,941
Speaker 3: like having quite a physical response to discipline, which when

814
00:39:38,982 --> 00:39:42,142
Speaker 3: we edge back towards smacking, I start to get a

815
00:39:42,142 --> 00:39:43,221
Speaker 3: little bit nervous.

816
00:39:43,342 --> 00:39:47,542
Speaker 4: Oh no, I thought more it was the natural consequences.

817
00:39:47,582 --> 00:39:50,221
Speaker 4: Not enough, felt you if you do that, because I

818
00:39:50,261 --> 00:39:52,421
Speaker 4: agree it's not like I mean, I suppose it could

819
00:39:52,462 --> 00:39:54,982
Speaker 4: be the consequences of me intervening in a negative way,

820
00:39:55,582 --> 00:39:59,102
Speaker 4: but I'm more like the natural consequences. I'm not going

821
00:39:59,142 --> 00:40:01,381
Speaker 4: to intervene. And you see what happens when you don't

822
00:40:01,422 --> 00:40:02,022
Speaker 4: get a jacket.

823
00:40:02,062 --> 00:40:06,181
Speaker 2: Classic example for older kids would be you forget to

824
00:40:06,302 --> 00:40:11,542
Speaker 2: take your tubumpit. Yes, were we both went to lunches

825
00:40:12,622 --> 00:40:17,262
Speaker 2: whatever to school and you going to get in trouble,

826
00:40:18,302 --> 00:40:20,782
Speaker 2: Let them get in trouble, or do you get yourself

827
00:40:20,822 --> 00:40:23,382
Speaker 2: out of a work meeting, organize yourself to get to

828
00:40:23,422 --> 00:40:24,062
Speaker 2: where they're going?

829
00:40:24,142 --> 00:40:25,781
Speaker 4: Too funny you should say that. So I was in

830
00:40:25,822 --> 00:40:27,741
Speaker 4: a group chat one of my kids group chats at

831
00:40:27,741 --> 00:40:31,501
Speaker 4: one point, and every afternoon they're in primary school. Every

832
00:40:31,542 --> 00:40:37,582
Speaker 4: afternoon some parents would come in and say, Johnny forgot

833
00:40:37,622 --> 00:40:41,942
Speaker 4: his homework, What is the homework for this afternoon? Or

834
00:40:41,982 --> 00:40:44,622
Speaker 4: can someone tell me? Can someone copy the photograph the

835
00:40:44,661 --> 00:40:47,542
Speaker 4: page in the maths book? And it was just every

836
00:40:47,582 --> 00:40:49,941
Speaker 4: afternoon would happened. And these were not little kids, these

837
00:40:49,942 --> 00:40:52,662
Speaker 4: were not six year olds. These were like eleven year olds.

838
00:40:53,382 --> 00:40:54,942
Speaker 4: And it was different kids all the time. But at

839
00:40:54,942 --> 00:40:56,622
Speaker 4: one point I just lost it and I said in

840
00:40:56,622 --> 00:40:59,381
Speaker 4: the group chat, how about we let the kids deal

841
00:40:59,422 --> 00:41:02,382
Speaker 4: with the consequences if they don't remember their homework.

842
00:41:02,781 --> 00:41:04,821
Speaker 1: Silence. I think they made the class, made a different

843
00:41:04,862 --> 00:41:05,301
Speaker 1: group chat.

844
00:41:05,462 --> 00:41:06,341
Speaker 2: Somebody kicked me.

845
00:41:06,422 --> 00:41:09,862
Speaker 3: Out of the group chat. I wonder if parenting styles

846
00:41:09,701 --> 00:41:12,941
Speaker 3: are sometimes evolve in response to the world we live in, right,

847
00:41:12,982 --> 00:41:15,661
Speaker 3: Because there was the nineties and early two thousands there

848
00:41:15,741 --> 00:41:19,821
Speaker 3: was almost a real sense of safety. People are doing

849
00:41:19,902 --> 00:41:23,901
Speaker 3: well financially, kind of before the GFC, that kind of thing.

850
00:41:24,462 --> 00:41:26,261
Speaker 3: There was this kind of even now we look back

851
00:41:26,302 --> 00:41:29,862
Speaker 3: at a bit of a utopia, right, and now, broadly speaking,

852
00:41:30,302 --> 00:41:34,142
Speaker 3: the world feels really unsafe, from climate change to conflict,

853
00:41:34,462 --> 00:41:39,261
Speaker 3: to post COVID to politics and algorithms. I wonder if

854
00:41:39,302 --> 00:41:42,822
Speaker 3: it's like to prepare your child for the world today.

855
00:41:43,382 --> 00:41:45,142
Speaker 3: We've got to let them fuck around and find out.

856
00:41:45,342 --> 00:41:48,301
Speaker 4: So in workplaces, for example, you know, people talk about

857
00:41:48,342 --> 00:41:51,542
Speaker 4: the nanny state and what you are and aren't allowed

858
00:41:51,582 --> 00:41:54,462
Speaker 4: to post, what you are and aren't allowed to do

859
00:41:54,741 --> 00:41:57,221
Speaker 4: in a workplace. And for example, if you talk to

860
00:41:57,221 --> 00:42:00,261
Speaker 4: anyone who works in HR, they say that the emphasis

861
00:42:00,261 --> 00:42:04,741
Speaker 4: of HR now is not as much on physical safety,

862
00:42:04,862 --> 00:42:06,982
Speaker 4: like you know, making sure everyone's got a chair that's

863
00:42:07,022 --> 00:42:09,421
Speaker 4: okay for their back and doesn't trip over a core,

864
00:42:10,142 --> 00:42:14,022
Speaker 4: and it's more on mental safety. So that's an example

865
00:42:14,062 --> 00:42:18,661
Speaker 4: of how sort of legislation and our society is kind

866
00:42:18,701 --> 00:42:20,341
Speaker 4: of stepping in.

867
00:42:20,741 --> 00:42:23,102
Speaker 3: And I suppose the born out of the helicopter parenting

868
00:42:23,181 --> 00:42:25,941
Speaker 3: thing is that we don't believe that there have been

869
00:42:26,622 --> 00:42:30,341
Speaker 3: apt consequences for bad behavior. So Elon Musk, who I

870
00:42:30,422 --> 00:42:32,142
Speaker 3: just feel like I don't know, is at the center

871
00:42:32,181 --> 00:42:35,982
Speaker 3: of every story, popularized this term quite recently. So if

872
00:42:36,022 --> 00:42:39,222
Speaker 3: you remember a few years ago, Kanye West was on Twitter,

873
00:42:39,342 --> 00:42:43,582
Speaker 3: he posted something probably anti Semitic, something that aligned him

874
00:42:43,582 --> 00:42:47,221
Speaker 3: with Nazism and sort of dared Elon Musk to take

875
00:42:47,261 --> 00:42:49,901
Speaker 3: him off right, and when Elon Musk ultimately I think

876
00:42:49,942 --> 00:42:52,221
Speaker 3: it was actually an ugly photo of Elon Musk that

877
00:42:52,342 --> 00:42:54,741
Speaker 3: made Elon take him off, but when he did, he said,

878
00:42:54,781 --> 00:42:56,942
Speaker 3: fuck around and find out. Like his whole thing was

879
00:42:56,982 --> 00:42:59,261
Speaker 3: just like, do what you want, but you're gonna find out.

880
00:42:59,342 --> 00:43:00,902
Speaker 3: Push me, Yeah, don't push me.

881
00:43:01,062 --> 00:43:03,942
Speaker 2: It says do what you want, but there will be consequences.

882
00:43:04,062 --> 00:43:06,181
Speaker 2: And the thing is is I think that's like fuck

883
00:43:06,221 --> 00:43:08,781
Speaker 2: around and find out is literally in relationships, like you

884
00:43:08,822 --> 00:43:14,261
Speaker 2: can around, but you find out pretty quickly or not.

885
00:43:14,701 --> 00:43:17,102
Speaker 2: Your partner is going to put up with that. You

886
00:43:17,142 --> 00:43:19,342
Speaker 2: can be late for work, but your boss will probably

887
00:43:19,382 --> 00:43:22,182
Speaker 2: be mad with you. You can eat shit every day,

888
00:43:22,221 --> 00:43:24,422
Speaker 2: but you might feel terrible, Like it's that thing of

889
00:43:24,862 --> 00:43:28,301
Speaker 2: you to do whatever you want, but there will be consequences.

890
00:43:28,342 --> 00:43:31,421
Speaker 2: I like it because you know how I am about

891
00:43:31,462 --> 00:43:33,661
Speaker 2: I don't like fences, but I'm a people pleaser, so

892
00:43:33,701 --> 00:43:35,742
Speaker 2: it's like if you tell me I have to do something,

893
00:43:35,741 --> 00:43:38,022
Speaker 2: it gets my backup. But if I know that, well,

894
00:43:38,062 --> 00:43:41,022
Speaker 2: I'm free to do whatever I want. But as an

895
00:43:41,102 --> 00:43:44,301
Speaker 2: adult human being with agency, I have to accept that

896
00:43:44,342 --> 00:43:47,302
Speaker 2: the things I do will have reactions, will have consequences.

897
00:43:47,422 --> 00:43:50,421
Speaker 2: It's not rules imposed on me, it's me saying, well,

898
00:43:50,462 --> 00:43:52,222
Speaker 2: I could do that, but then this will happen.

899
00:43:52,422 --> 00:43:55,422
Speaker 3: Urban Dictionary put it as cause and effect but spicier,

900
00:43:55,582 --> 00:43:58,341
Speaker 3: and I feel like that's very true. It's like fuck

901
00:43:58,382 --> 00:44:01,222
Speaker 3: around and find out because question mark, because you actually

902
00:44:01,261 --> 00:44:04,782
Speaker 3: don't fully know what the consequences will be the world.

903
00:44:04,701 --> 00:44:08,781
Speaker 4: In this internet age, where the consequences can be so

904
00:44:08,942 --> 00:44:14,542
Speaker 4: outside of doing something or making a mistake. You know

905
00:44:14,701 --> 00:44:17,261
Speaker 4: what about that, Like are the consequences always are they

906
00:44:17,261 --> 00:44:18,381
Speaker 4: always justified? Well?

907
00:44:18,462 --> 00:44:20,062
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that that's actually at the core of

908
00:44:20,062 --> 00:44:22,661
Speaker 3: it is that ultimately this is a threat. This is

909
00:44:23,181 --> 00:44:26,022
Speaker 3: a threat that we all have to have to live

910
00:44:26,062 --> 00:44:27,142
Speaker 3: with all the time.

911
00:44:27,422 --> 00:44:29,661
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's true, and that is right. It's like people say,

912
00:44:29,701 --> 00:44:31,741
Speaker 2: you can't say anything anymore what you can, but you

913
00:44:31,781 --> 00:44:33,622
Speaker 2: know what will happen if you do. Yeah, So it

914
00:44:33,701 --> 00:44:35,662
Speaker 2: is a threat that's used to keep people in line

915
00:44:35,701 --> 00:44:37,982
Speaker 2: in some ways, like it's sort of a bit of

916
00:44:38,022 --> 00:44:41,861
Speaker 2: a tilt and authoritarian tilt. But it's also and I

917
00:44:41,902 --> 00:44:44,181
Speaker 2: think that's also why the libertarians kind of like it,

918
00:44:44,422 --> 00:44:47,462
Speaker 2: because they're sort of like I was just saying, like

919
00:44:47,542 --> 00:44:49,582
Speaker 2: I'm free to do what I want, but there will

920
00:44:49,582 --> 00:44:52,781
Speaker 2: be consequences. It can be used in all those different forms, right, Yes,

921
00:44:52,822 --> 00:44:55,302
Speaker 2: you can say whatever you want, but don't be surprised

922
00:44:55,342 --> 00:44:56,582
Speaker 2: if a lot of people don't like it.

923
00:44:56,701 --> 00:44:59,102
Speaker 3: There's an inherent brutality to it. I just think that

924
00:44:59,102 --> 00:45:02,702
Speaker 3: that's reflective of the moment we find ourselves in the mood,

925
00:45:02,942 --> 00:45:06,221
Speaker 3: which is just kind of like no more warm and fuzzies,

926
00:45:06,542 --> 00:45:08,782
Speaker 3: Like the world is a hard place and you should

927
00:45:08,902 --> 00:45:10,502
Speaker 3: know and learn that every single day.

928
00:45:11,142 --> 00:45:13,542
Speaker 2: How loud is That's all we've got time for today.

929
00:45:13,741 --> 00:45:16,181
Speaker 2: A massive thank you to all of you as always,

930
00:45:16,221 --> 00:45:18,622
Speaker 2: and to our very talented team for putting it together.

931
00:45:18,942 --> 00:45:21,622
Speaker 4: We'll be back in news tomorrow, but on Friday's show,

932
00:45:22,062 --> 00:45:23,062
Speaker 4: I've got some news.

933
00:45:23,302 --> 00:45:25,261
Speaker 1: I am going back to university.

934
00:45:26,261 --> 00:45:28,181
Speaker 3: You can't say back if you never went that first day,

935
00:45:28,422 --> 00:45:29,301
Speaker 3: you went for two days.

936
00:45:29,342 --> 00:45:31,422
Speaker 2: I don't know why I'm laughing, because maybe she is.

937
00:45:31,661 --> 00:45:33,742
Speaker 4: Okay, I know, I love that your response is laughing.

938
00:45:34,261 --> 00:45:36,422
Speaker 4: Am I going back to university? Out louders or is

939
00:45:36,422 --> 00:45:37,701
Speaker 4: there something else to tell? You?

940
00:45:37,862 --> 00:45:39,582
Speaker 1: Find it out on Friday's show.

941
00:45:40,582 --> 00:45:41,862
Speaker 5: Bye bye.

942
00:45:42,902 --> 00:45:45,422
Speaker 3: Shout out to any mum and me a subscribers listening.

943
00:45:45,701 --> 00:45:47,821
Speaker 3: If you love the show and you want to support us,

944
00:45:48,102 --> 00:45:50,982
Speaker 3: subscribing to MoMA Mia is the very best way to

945
00:45:51,062 --> 00:45:53,502
Speaker 3: do so. There's a link in the episode description