1 00:00:10,614 --> 00:00:15,294 Speaker 1: You're listening to a Muma Mea podcast. Mumma Mea acknowledges 2 00:00:15,334 --> 00:00:18,174 Speaker 1: the traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast 3 00:00:18,214 --> 00:00:24,054 Speaker 1: is recorded on. Hi. I'm Claire Murphy. This is MMA 4 00:00:24,094 --> 00:00:28,094 Speaker 1: MIA's daily news podcast, The Quickie. On Friday morning, Australia 5 00:00:28,134 --> 00:00:31,294 Speaker 1: awoke to the news that Donald Trump is guilty. Donald 6 00:00:31,334 --> 00:00:34,654 Speaker 1: Trump is the first ever former US president to become 7 00:00:34,774 --> 00:00:36,814 Speaker 1: a convicted Criminal's an historic decision. 8 00:00:36,854 --> 00:00:38,494 Speaker 2: Here in New York jury is found in guilty of 9 00:00:38,534 --> 00:00:41,734 Speaker 2: falsifying business records to commit election fraud. 10 00:00:42,094 --> 00:00:44,814 Speaker 1: Today we find out what happens now and what riffle 11 00:00:44,814 --> 00:00:47,934 Speaker 1: effects this may have not just on a presidential race, 12 00:00:48,254 --> 00:00:50,814 Speaker 1: but on a nation who already followed their leader to 13 00:00:50,854 --> 00:00:53,734 Speaker 1: the Capitol Building. But first, here's the letters from the 14 00:00:53,774 --> 00:00:57,534 Speaker 1: Quickie newsroom for Monday, June Three. Emergency crews who were 15 00:00:57,574 --> 00:00:59,854 Speaker 1: clinging to the hope that a woman missing for nearly 16 00:00:59,934 --> 00:01:02,934 Speaker 1: two days after a unit explosion in western Sydney was 17 00:01:02,974 --> 00:01:06,294 Speaker 1: still alive have now found her body. The woman was 18 00:01:06,334 --> 00:01:09,214 Speaker 1: feared to have been buried alive after the explosion leveled 19 00:01:09,254 --> 00:01:11,894 Speaker 1: most of the two story property in Waylan just after 20 00:01:11,974 --> 00:01:15,334 Speaker 1: one pm on Saturday. Rescue teams removed pieces of the 21 00:01:15,374 --> 00:01:17,974 Speaker 1: building by hand to try and find her, while her 22 00:01:17,974 --> 00:01:21,574 Speaker 1: family waited nearby for news. There had been concerns about 23 00:01:21,614 --> 00:01:23,774 Speaker 1: a ghasleek in the area in the weeks leading up 24 00:01:23,814 --> 00:01:26,934 Speaker 1: to the explosion, but the cause has yet to be determined. 25 00:01:27,174 --> 00:01:30,054 Speaker 1: The woman's body found just before three point thirty this morning. 26 00:01:30,534 --> 00:01:33,014 Speaker 1: A sad end for a girl who made national headlines 27 00:01:33,054 --> 00:01:36,254 Speaker 1: as a teenager in the nineties. Natasha Ryan found dead 28 00:01:36,294 --> 00:01:39,374 Speaker 1: at a central Queensland golf club. Miss Ryan was at 29 00:01:39,414 --> 00:01:42,174 Speaker 1: the center of one of the country's most notorious missing 30 00:01:42,214 --> 00:01:46,374 Speaker 1: persons cases, the then teenager disappearing in nineteen ninety eight. 31 00:01:46,694 --> 00:01:49,054 Speaker 1: Police believed she may have been the victim of serial 32 00:01:49,134 --> 00:01:52,414 Speaker 1: killer John Fraser, who was charged with her murder, but 33 00:01:52,534 --> 00:01:55,454 Speaker 1: during his trial in two thousand and three, police received 34 00:01:55,454 --> 00:01:58,334 Speaker 1: a tip off that Natasha Ryan was still alive, and 35 00:01:58,414 --> 00:02:00,934 Speaker 1: after a search, she was found hiding in the cupboard 36 00:02:00,934 --> 00:02:04,494 Speaker 1: of her adult boyfriend's house. Police responded to a welfare 37 00:02:04,494 --> 00:02:07,574 Speaker 1: call at the Rockhampton golf club yesterday morning to find 38 00:02:07,574 --> 00:02:09,814 Speaker 1: the body of the forty year old, saying they don't 39 00:02:09,814 --> 00:02:13,974 Speaker 1: believe there to be any suspicious circumstances. Donald Trump, who 40 00:02:14,014 --> 00:02:16,334 Speaker 1: tried to ban the platform when he was in power. 41 00:02:16,494 --> 00:02:20,214 Speaker 1: This weekend, joined TikTok, gaining more than two million followers. 42 00:02:20,614 --> 00:02:23,374 Speaker 1: The decision to join the popular social media channel could 43 00:02:23,374 --> 00:02:25,894 Speaker 1: help the former president on his run for the presidency, 44 00:02:26,214 --> 00:02:29,574 Speaker 1: connecting him with younger voters. The race between him and 45 00:02:29,654 --> 00:02:32,854 Speaker 1: incumbent President Joe Biden proving to be a close one. 46 00:02:33,014 --> 00:02:35,294 Speaker 1: Trump posted for the first time a video of him 47 00:02:35,334 --> 00:02:39,054 Speaker 1: greeting fans at a UFC fight in New Jersey. Biden's 48 00:02:39,094 --> 00:02:41,974 Speaker 1: campaign has already been utilizing the platform, with the President 49 00:02:42,054 --> 00:02:45,054 Speaker 1: having three hundred and thirty six thousand followers, although he 50 00:02:45,094 --> 00:02:47,174 Speaker 1: has signed a bill that would ban the app if 51 00:02:47,174 --> 00:02:50,254 Speaker 1: its Chinese owner doesn't divest its interests in the company 52 00:02:50,814 --> 00:02:53,854 Speaker 1: medium Ogul. Rupert Murdoch has married for a fifth time 53 00:02:53,934 --> 00:02:57,934 Speaker 1: to retired molecular biologist to Lenazakova. The ninety three year 54 00:02:57,934 --> 00:03:00,454 Speaker 1: old tied the knot with Zukova, who emigrated to the 55 00:03:00,534 --> 00:03:04,174 Speaker 1: US from Russia in the nineteen nineties, at his Californian vineyard. 56 00:03:04,414 --> 00:03:07,254 Speaker 1: The nupshials coming just months after Murdock stepped down as 57 00:03:07,334 --> 00:03:09,454 Speaker 1: chairman of Fox News and News Corps and in the 58 00:03:09,614 --> 00:03:12,094 Speaker 1: reigns of the business over to his son Lachlan after 59 00:03:12,134 --> 00:03:15,014 Speaker 1: more than seventy years at the helm. Mister Murdoch is 60 00:03:15,054 --> 00:03:17,334 Speaker 1: believed to have met his now fifth wife through his 61 00:03:17,574 --> 00:03:21,334 Speaker 1: third wife, Wendy Deng. He divorced his fourth wife, actress 62 00:03:21,334 --> 00:03:24,094 Speaker 1: and model Jerry Hall, in twenty twenty two after six 63 00:03:24,174 --> 00:03:27,454 Speaker 1: years of marriage. That's what's happening around the world next. 64 00:03:27,574 --> 00:03:30,654 Speaker 1: With Trump being found guilty of falsifying business records in 65 00:03:30,734 --> 00:03:34,294 Speaker 1: paying off adult film star Stormy Daniels, America finds itself 66 00:03:34,374 --> 00:03:38,214 Speaker 1: in unmapped territory. How do you solve a problem like 67 00:03:38,294 --> 00:03:55,014 Speaker 1: a guilty potential president? Eleven checks, eleven invoices, and twelve 68 00:03:55,334 --> 00:04:00,334 Speaker 1: ledger entries, thirty four documents is what Trump's hush money 69 00:04:00,374 --> 00:04:04,414 Speaker 1: trial all boiled down to. While the headlines have circled 70 00:04:04,414 --> 00:04:07,894 Speaker 1: around Trump's solicit affair with adult film star Stormy Daniels, 71 00:04:08,174 --> 00:04:11,294 Speaker 1: his wife Millenia's respond to said affair, and the former 72 00:04:11,374 --> 00:04:15,494 Speaker 1: president's inability to stop talking publicly about those involved in 73 00:04:15,534 --> 00:04:18,934 Speaker 1: the trial, despite being warned many times by the judge 74 00:04:18,934 --> 00:04:21,014 Speaker 1: that he would be thrown in jail for contempt for 75 00:04:21,094 --> 00:04:24,734 Speaker 1: doing so, the criminal case against Donald Trump wasn't about 76 00:04:24,774 --> 00:04:31,454 Speaker 1: any of that. It was all about business. In twenty sixteen, 77 00:04:31,534 --> 00:04:34,294 Speaker 1: Donald Trump was hoping to become president for the first time. 78 00:04:34,854 --> 00:04:37,654 Speaker 1: What he couldn't afford to let happen back then was 79 00:04:37,694 --> 00:04:41,294 Speaker 1: stories about the conduct from his personal life going public 80 00:04:41,494 --> 00:04:43,894 Speaker 1: and threatening to ruin his chances of getting into the 81 00:04:43,894 --> 00:04:47,974 Speaker 1: Oval office. One of those stories involved adult film star 82 00:04:48,094 --> 00:04:51,094 Speaker 1: Stormy Daniels, who he met at a celebrity golf tournament 83 00:04:51,334 --> 00:04:54,654 Speaker 1: at Lake Tahoe, Nevada, in two thousand and six. He 84 00:04:54,694 --> 00:04:57,174 Speaker 1: invited her to a party in California and to his 85 00:04:57,254 --> 00:05:00,094 Speaker 1: office in New York. At the time, Trump was sixty 86 00:05:00,174 --> 00:05:02,894 Speaker 1: years old and his wife, Milania, had just given birth 87 00:05:02,934 --> 00:05:05,294 Speaker 1: to their son, Baron. He was the star of the 88 00:05:05,334 --> 00:05:09,014 Speaker 1: TV Show's Celebrity Apprentice, telling twenty seven year old Daniels 89 00:05:09,014 --> 00:05:10,894 Speaker 1: he could make hook her up and get her a 90 00:05:10,894 --> 00:05:14,174 Speaker 1: spot on the show. Daniels claims this was a start 91 00:05:14,254 --> 00:05:18,014 Speaker 1: of a sexual relationship. A year later, Trump asked Daniels 92 00:05:18,014 --> 00:05:20,014 Speaker 1: to meet him at the Beverly Hills Hotel in LA 93 00:05:20,174 --> 00:05:23,174 Speaker 1: to discuss the show. They spend four hours together and 94 00:05:23,214 --> 00:05:25,694 Speaker 1: Trump admits he's still working on getting her the gig, 95 00:05:26,134 --> 00:05:27,694 Speaker 1: but he calls her a month later and says he 96 00:05:27,734 --> 00:05:30,934 Speaker 1: can't do it. In twenty eleven, daniel sits down for 97 00:05:30,974 --> 00:05:33,934 Speaker 1: an interview with the magazine in Touch, where she talks 98 00:05:33,974 --> 00:05:36,854 Speaker 1: about her encounters with Trump. They say they paid her 99 00:05:36,854 --> 00:05:41,054 Speaker 1: fifteen thousand dollars, but the interview would never run. Two 100 00:05:41,094 --> 00:05:44,734 Speaker 1: of the magazine's employees later telling CBS News that it 101 00:05:44,814 --> 00:05:49,094 Speaker 1: didn't get to print because Michael Cohen, Trump's attorney had 102 00:05:49,134 --> 00:05:53,494 Speaker 1: threatened to sue them. A few weeks later, Daniels claims 103 00:05:53,494 --> 00:05:55,534 Speaker 1: she was threatened by a man who approached her in 104 00:05:55,574 --> 00:05:58,334 Speaker 1: Las Vegas, telling her to leave Trump alone and to 105 00:05:58,414 --> 00:06:02,174 Speaker 1: forget the story. In twenty sixteen, as Trump is gearing 106 00:06:02,294 --> 00:06:05,974 Speaker 1: up for the presidential election, Karen McDougall, an actress and 107 00:06:06,054 --> 00:06:09,454 Speaker 1: former Playboy model, also tried to sell her Trump's story, 108 00:06:09,694 --> 00:06:12,094 Speaker 1: alleging they had an affair in two thousand and six. 109 00:06:12,134 --> 00:06:15,134 Speaker 1: In two thousand and seven, the story is sold to 110 00:06:15,174 --> 00:06:18,734 Speaker 1: the National Inquirer, but it too, never makes it to publication. 111 00:06:19,454 --> 00:06:21,934 Speaker 1: We would later find out that this tactic is called 112 00:06:22,054 --> 00:06:25,654 Speaker 1: catch and kill, where publications are paid by certain high 113 00:06:25,654 --> 00:06:29,214 Speaker 1: profile people to stop bad publicity stories from making it 114 00:06:29,214 --> 00:06:33,374 Speaker 1: to the public. Michael Cohen, Trump's lawyer, had drafted an 115 00:06:33,414 --> 00:06:36,734 Speaker 1: agreement with David Pecker, the chairman and CEO of the 116 00:06:36,854 --> 00:06:40,814 Speaker 1: National Inquirer's parent company, American Media, worth one hundred and 117 00:06:40,814 --> 00:06:44,414 Speaker 1: twenty five thousand dollars. In his testimony at the trial, 118 00:06:44,574 --> 00:06:47,174 Speaker 1: Pecker told the court that there was a conversation he 119 00:06:47,294 --> 00:06:50,454 Speaker 1: had in Trump Tower about his role in keeping these 120 00:06:50,494 --> 00:06:51,254 Speaker 1: stories at bay. 121 00:06:51,974 --> 00:06:54,614 Speaker 2: There was discussion about that I was going to be 122 00:06:54,694 --> 00:06:57,494 Speaker 2: the eyes in the ears of the campaign, and there 123 00:06:57,574 --> 00:07:00,654 Speaker 2: was a discussion that I would be notifying Michael Cohen 124 00:07:01,014 --> 00:07:03,574 Speaker 2: of any women that were in the process of or 125 00:07:03,694 --> 00:07:06,934 Speaker 2: going to be selling stories, and I would notify Cohen 126 00:07:06,974 --> 00:07:09,494 Speaker 2: that they would be available, and they would be willing 127 00:07:09,774 --> 00:07:12,294 Speaker 2: to have someone buy them, or have them taken off 128 00:07:12,294 --> 00:07:14,894 Speaker 2: the market, or kill them in some manner. 129 00:07:18,294 --> 00:07:21,654 Speaker 1: In October twenty sixteen, three months after Trump secured the 130 00:07:21,694 --> 00:07:25,934 Speaker 1: Republican Party's nomination for president, Stormy Daniels attempted to sell 131 00:07:25,974 --> 00:07:29,014 Speaker 1: her story to The National Inquirer too, and, true to 132 00:07:29,054 --> 00:07:34,134 Speaker 1: their agreement, Cohen Is immediately informed. Cohen then negotiated a 133 00:07:34,134 --> 00:07:36,694 Speaker 1: deal with Daniels to pay her one hundred and thirty 134 00:07:36,734 --> 00:07:39,734 Speaker 1: thousand dollars in exchange for the rights to her story, 135 00:07:39,974 --> 00:07:42,974 Speaker 1: as long as she also signs a non disclosure agreement. 136 00:07:43,694 --> 00:07:48,174 Speaker 1: Cohen then filed paperwork to incorporate a firm called Essential Consultants. 137 00:07:48,494 --> 00:07:51,094 Speaker 1: He opened a bank account for the firm and transferred 138 00:07:51,094 --> 00:07:53,774 Speaker 1: into it one hundred and thirty one thousand dollars that 139 00:07:53,894 --> 00:07:56,534 Speaker 1: he got by taking out a home equity line of credit. 140 00:07:57,014 --> 00:08:00,494 Speaker 1: He then transfers that money to Daniel's attorney, Keith Davidson. 141 00:08:01,374 --> 00:08:04,734 Speaker 1: A document is created between a Peggy Peterson, thought to 142 00:08:04,734 --> 00:08:08,254 Speaker 1: be a pseudonym for Daniels, and David Dennison, the identity 143 00:08:08,254 --> 00:08:10,934 Speaker 1: of whom is redacted in the court document, but who 144 00:08:11,014 --> 00:08:14,054 Speaker 1: is believed to be Trump. A call between Trump and 145 00:08:14,094 --> 00:08:17,294 Speaker 1: Cohen would be released by CNN in July twenty eighteen 146 00:08:17,534 --> 00:08:20,654 Speaker 1: of the pair discussing this very issue. This is what 147 00:08:20,694 --> 00:08:23,454 Speaker 1: the jury heard while in court this past seven weeks. 148 00:08:23,654 --> 00:08:27,774 Speaker 2: I need to open up a company for the transfer 149 00:08:27,814 --> 00:08:30,734 Speaker 2: of all of that in fo regarding our friend David 150 00:08:30,974 --> 00:08:32,214 Speaker 2: Nice talk to Allen about it. 151 00:08:32,254 --> 00:08:34,534 Speaker 3: When it comes time for the financing, which will. 152 00:08:34,414 --> 00:08:36,774 Speaker 4: Be lesson Well. 153 00:08:36,814 --> 00:08:40,214 Speaker 3: I have to pay us, no, no, no, noone. 154 00:08:40,854 --> 00:08:45,254 Speaker 1: The Peggy Peterson David Dennison NDA document is signed October 155 00:08:45,294 --> 00:08:49,214 Speaker 1: twenty eight although the Dennison signature spot is blank. Eleven 156 00:08:49,294 --> 00:08:56,254 Speaker 1: days later, Donald Trump was elected president. The only loose 157 00:08:56,334 --> 00:08:59,254 Speaker 1: end to tie up now is to pay Michael Cohen back, 158 00:08:59,814 --> 00:09:02,974 Speaker 1: so he sends invoices to Trump's company over the next 159 00:09:03,094 --> 00:09:06,854 Speaker 1: year at thirty five thousand dollars a month. Trump would 160 00:09:06,854 --> 00:09:09,774 Speaker 1: claim in a tweet on May three, twenty eighteen, that 161 00:09:09,814 --> 00:09:12,574 Speaker 1: the payments were a monthly retainer for Cohen, not from 162 00:09:12,654 --> 00:09:16,374 Speaker 1: his presidential campaign funds. But pressure was mounting on Cohen 163 00:09:16,414 --> 00:09:19,334 Speaker 1: to come clean, and in August twenty eighteen, he pled 164 00:09:19,334 --> 00:09:23,094 Speaker 1: guilty to eight federal charges of tax evasion, fraud, and 165 00:09:23,374 --> 00:09:27,614 Speaker 1: campaign finance violations related to the payments. He tells the 166 00:09:27,654 --> 00:09:31,214 Speaker 1: court Trump told him to do it. An investigation is 167 00:09:31,214 --> 00:09:33,334 Speaker 1: opened off the back of that allegation to see if 168 00:09:33,334 --> 00:09:37,454 Speaker 1: Trump falsified business records to cover up those reimbursement payments 169 00:09:37,454 --> 00:09:40,374 Speaker 1: to Cohen, and that is what has led us to 170 00:09:40,414 --> 00:09:44,014 Speaker 1: Trump being charged with thirty four counts of fraud involving 171 00:09:44,054 --> 00:09:48,894 Speaker 1: eleven checks, eleven invoices, and twelve ledger entries. It would 172 00:09:48,894 --> 00:09:51,654 Speaker 1: be the first time a former US president had faced 173 00:09:51,654 --> 00:09:55,374 Speaker 1: felony charges, and on Friday, he became the first US 174 00:09:55,414 --> 00:09:58,214 Speaker 1: former president to be convicted of a felony when the 175 00:09:58,294 --> 00:10:00,374 Speaker 1: jury came back with a unanimous decision. 176 00:10:00,974 --> 00:10:03,214 Speaker 4: They filed into the courtroom. None of them looked over 177 00:10:03,254 --> 00:10:05,814 Speaker 4: at Donald Trump. That is normal, they normally don't. But 178 00:10:05,934 --> 00:10:08,574 Speaker 4: they all walked toward their seats. So the foreman stood 179 00:10:08,654 --> 00:10:11,374 Speaker 4: up with a microphone and he was asked for each 180 00:10:11,454 --> 00:10:13,334 Speaker 4: count if they had reached a verdict and what it was, 181 00:10:13,574 --> 00:10:17,054 Speaker 4: and he went through all thirty four counts saying guilty. 182 00:10:17,534 --> 00:10:20,414 Speaker 4: Then after that the court security officer asked them if 183 00:10:20,454 --> 00:10:23,694 Speaker 4: this was a unanimous verdict by all the jurors. They 184 00:10:23,894 --> 00:10:26,574 Speaker 4: answer saying that yes, it was. At this point, Donald 185 00:10:26,614 --> 00:10:29,814 Speaker 4: Trump stands up. He looked upset and as he walked 186 00:10:30,014 --> 00:10:32,974 Speaker 4: toward the well that separates where he's sitting into the 187 00:10:32,974 --> 00:10:35,014 Speaker 4: common area of the galley where the rest of us are. 188 00:10:35,374 --> 00:10:37,574 Speaker 4: His son, Eric Trump was sitting in that first seat, 189 00:10:37,934 --> 00:10:40,494 Speaker 4: and so Donald Trump reached out to him shook his 190 00:10:40,574 --> 00:10:44,014 Speaker 4: hand vigorously. Eric Trump patted his father on the back 191 00:10:44,094 --> 00:10:46,534 Speaker 4: as Trump then walked down the center aisle of the 192 00:10:46,574 --> 00:10:49,814 Speaker 4: courtroom and out into the hallway, where then he spoke 193 00:10:49,854 --> 00:10:50,374 Speaker 4: to the camera. 194 00:10:50,774 --> 00:10:53,574 Speaker 1: That's Car Scannel from CNN, who was in the courtroom 195 00:10:53,574 --> 00:10:57,814 Speaker 1: when the verdict was handed down. Outside the courtroom, Trump 196 00:10:57,814 --> 00:11:00,774 Speaker 1: supporters clashed with others who were joyous at the revelation 197 00:11:00,854 --> 00:11:11,814 Speaker 1: that Trump was guilty stop, while Trump himself addressed the 198 00:11:11,854 --> 00:11:14,934 Speaker 1: media with a line he's carried all through these proceedings 199 00:11:15,214 --> 00:11:17,894 Speaker 1: and with the other court cases. He's also facing that 200 00:11:18,014 --> 00:11:20,134 Speaker 1: this is all a political witch hunt. 201 00:11:20,534 --> 00:11:24,614 Speaker 2: This was a disgrace, This was a rigged trial by 202 00:11:24,654 --> 00:11:28,414 Speaker 2: a conflicted judge who was corrupted. It wouldn't give us 203 00:11:28,454 --> 00:11:33,294 Speaker 2: a venue change. We were at five percent or six percent. 204 00:11:34,294 --> 00:11:37,454 Speaker 1: The real verdict is going to be November fifth by 205 00:11:37,494 --> 00:11:40,454 Speaker 1: the people, and they know what happened here, and everybody 206 00:11:40,494 --> 00:11:41,534 Speaker 1: knows what happened here. 207 00:11:41,694 --> 00:11:43,174 Speaker 2: I'm a very innocent man. 208 00:11:47,054 --> 00:11:50,094 Speaker 1: John Baron is a journalist, broadcaster and co host of 209 00:11:50,134 --> 00:11:53,854 Speaker 1: the ABC's Planet America. John with how quickly this jury 210 00:11:53,894 --> 00:11:57,534 Speaker 1: came back after deliberating with guilty on all thirty four counts. 211 00:11:57,894 --> 00:11:59,494 Speaker 1: Does that lead us to believe that this was not 212 00:11:59,574 --> 00:12:01,134 Speaker 1: a difficult decision for them to make? 213 00:12:01,654 --> 00:12:05,894 Speaker 3: It certainly seems that way. The evidence was overwhelming on 214 00:12:05,934 --> 00:12:08,454 Speaker 3: the face of it. The thirty four counts related to 215 00:12:08,694 --> 00:12:11,974 Speaker 3: thirty four piece of paper in voices, vouchers, and checks 216 00:12:12,254 --> 00:12:15,614 Speaker 3: which had Donald Trump's signatures on them. It was pretty 217 00:12:15,694 --> 00:12:19,694 Speaker 3: easy to prove the business fraud side of this. What 218 00:12:19,854 --> 00:12:22,734 Speaker 3: was less likely to be proven, and most legal analysts 219 00:12:22,734 --> 00:12:25,694 Speaker 3: thought that was possibly going to be too difficult to prove, 220 00:12:26,374 --> 00:12:30,134 Speaker 3: was those accounting misdemeanors which would have just incurred a 221 00:12:30,174 --> 00:12:32,934 Speaker 3: fine in the tens of thousands of dollars, were a 222 00:12:32,974 --> 00:12:36,614 Speaker 3: part of a conspiracy to commit another crime. And it's 223 00:12:36,654 --> 00:12:39,694 Speaker 3: because they have been able to prove that this was 224 00:12:39,854 --> 00:12:42,374 Speaker 3: a misdemeanor to cover up a crime, that crime being 225 00:12:42,374 --> 00:12:46,534 Speaker 3: a conspiracy to influence and win the twenty sixteen presidential 226 00:12:46,574 --> 00:12:50,374 Speaker 3: election by covering up scandals about Trump. The crime to 227 00:12:50,414 --> 00:12:53,054 Speaker 3: cover up a crime made this into a much more 228 00:12:53,094 --> 00:12:55,894 Speaker 3: serious offense that was seen as a reach. They had 229 00:12:55,934 --> 00:12:59,054 Speaker 3: managed to do that to the satisfaction of the twelve jurors, 230 00:12:59,334 --> 00:13:02,734 Speaker 3: So this is to an extent a surprising result. They 231 00:13:02,734 --> 00:13:03,334 Speaker 3: didn't believe it. 232 00:13:03,414 --> 00:13:07,614 Speaker 1: Clearly, how important then, was David Pecker's testimony in all 233 00:13:07,654 --> 00:13:10,254 Speaker 1: of this. The jury did while they were deliberate, asked 234 00:13:10,294 --> 00:13:12,934 Speaker 1: to have that reread back to them. He of course, 235 00:13:12,974 --> 00:13:15,214 Speaker 1: working for the parent company of the National Inquirer, who 236 00:13:15,334 --> 00:13:18,654 Speaker 1: exposed to us this catch and kill idea that maybe 237 00:13:18,654 --> 00:13:21,134 Speaker 1: some of us weren't across before of killing off stories 238 00:13:21,174 --> 00:13:25,854 Speaker 1: before they make the press how pivotal was his testimony crucial? 239 00:13:26,134 --> 00:13:29,654 Speaker 3: Whereas Michael Cohen, as the former lawyer and fixer for 240 00:13:29,694 --> 00:13:33,334 Speaker 3: Donald Trump, went to jail for crimes he committed in 241 00:13:33,534 --> 00:13:37,214 Speaker 3: service of Donald Trump and now has a vendetta against 242 00:13:37,214 --> 00:13:39,374 Speaker 3: Donald Trump quite clearly and wants to see him in 243 00:13:39,454 --> 00:13:42,974 Speaker 3: jail as well. And Stormy Daniels of course, has admitted 244 00:13:43,054 --> 00:13:46,214 Speaker 3: she too hates Donald Trump and that she has been 245 00:13:46,214 --> 00:13:49,654 Speaker 3: defamed by him. They were key witnesses, but they both 246 00:13:49,694 --> 00:13:51,974 Speaker 3: clearly did not like Donald Trump. David Pecker, on the 247 00:13:51,974 --> 00:13:54,814 Speaker 3: other hand, still considers himself to be a friend of 248 00:13:54,854 --> 00:13:57,054 Speaker 3: Donald Trump. And the fact that David Pecker was the 249 00:13:57,094 --> 00:14:00,534 Speaker 3: third person, along with Donald Trump and Michael Cohen, involved 250 00:14:00,534 --> 00:14:04,694 Speaker 3: in meetings that hatched up this conspiracy, which included, as 251 00:14:04,694 --> 00:14:07,574 Speaker 3: he referred to, the catch and kills scheme. David Pecker 252 00:14:07,974 --> 00:14:10,854 Speaker 3: was crucial in all of this weather without him telling 253 00:14:10,894 --> 00:14:14,414 Speaker 3: the honest truth on that stand unwillingly at times, and 254 00:14:14,454 --> 00:14:17,614 Speaker 3: also the corroboration of other Trump friendly witnesses, including his 255 00:14:17,694 --> 00:14:20,574 Speaker 3: former assistant Hope Hicks, who talked about the fact that 256 00:14:20,654 --> 00:14:23,854 Speaker 3: Donald Trump never signs anything unless he knows exactly what 257 00:14:23,894 --> 00:14:26,054 Speaker 3: it is. There's no chance that he didn't know what 258 00:14:26,094 --> 00:14:28,094 Speaker 3: he was signing these checks for to Michael Cohen to 259 00:14:28,094 --> 00:14:30,614 Speaker 3: repay him for this hush money. They were the most 260 00:14:30,974 --> 00:14:32,854 Speaker 3: crucial witnesses of all. 261 00:14:33,054 --> 00:14:37,254 Speaker 1: Unsurprisingly, Trump used this verdict as a form of campaign 262 00:14:37,374 --> 00:14:40,574 Speaker 1: speech when he left the courtroom and headed out into 263 00:14:40,614 --> 00:14:42,654 Speaker 1: the street in front of the press. How do you 264 00:14:42,654 --> 00:14:45,014 Speaker 1: think he's going to leverage this decision. 265 00:14:45,534 --> 00:14:49,054 Speaker 3: It will be interesting to see how Donald Trump treats 266 00:14:49,094 --> 00:14:53,054 Speaker 3: this now, because it's one thing to say that there 267 00:14:53,254 --> 00:14:55,894 Speaker 3: is a witch hunt, and there is a rigged system, 268 00:14:55,934 --> 00:14:58,574 Speaker 3: and it is all very unfair, and I am very innocent, 269 00:14:58,814 --> 00:15:01,934 Speaker 3: is how he described himself on Friday. He is a 270 00:15:01,974 --> 00:15:04,494 Speaker 3: convicted criminal. There's no getting away from that fact. Whether 271 00:15:04,494 --> 00:15:07,334 Speaker 3: he is sent to jail or not in jail is unlikely. Now. 272 00:15:07,334 --> 00:15:09,574 Speaker 3: We've seen in recent weeks he has tried to to 273 00:15:09,934 --> 00:15:13,094 Speaker 3: modify his image so that him being a convicted criminal 274 00:15:13,254 --> 00:15:15,214 Speaker 3: is maybe seen as having a bit of street cred, 275 00:15:15,614 --> 00:15:18,774 Speaker 3: like gangster rappers. Last weekend, he was in the South 276 00:15:18,814 --> 00:15:22,894 Speaker 3: Bronx of New York inviting people accused of murder as 277 00:15:22,974 --> 00:15:26,214 Speaker 3: gangsters onto the stage in the way that you ordinarily 278 00:15:26,254 --> 00:15:29,094 Speaker 3: would somebody who was a local member of Congress or 279 00:15:29,174 --> 00:15:32,254 Speaker 3: the Senate. So he's clearly playing up to this sort 280 00:15:32,254 --> 00:15:35,574 Speaker 3: of outlaw image. But maybe a quarter or third of 281 00:15:35,574 --> 00:15:38,974 Speaker 3: the American population who indicated to polsters that a criminal 282 00:15:39,014 --> 00:15:42,814 Speaker 3: conviction could be the final straw. 283 00:15:42,014 --> 00:15:44,814 Speaker 1: You mentioned there, his chance of jail is looking pretty slim. 284 00:15:44,894 --> 00:15:47,374 Speaker 1: Michael Cohen did three years for his role in all 285 00:15:47,414 --> 00:15:50,094 Speaker 1: of this. Why is the chance of jail for Trump 286 00:15:50,094 --> 00:15:51,054 Speaker 1: looking less likely? 287 00:15:51,814 --> 00:15:55,814 Speaker 3: In Trump's case, what he's been convicted of is the 288 00:15:55,854 --> 00:16:00,414 Speaker 3: accounting irregularity, the white collar crime. He hasn't been convicted 289 00:16:00,654 --> 00:16:04,214 Speaker 3: of the conspiracy to rig the twenty sixteen election, but 290 00:16:04,534 --> 00:16:07,694 Speaker 3: to the satisfaction of the jurors, the accounting fraud was 291 00:16:07,814 --> 00:16:10,814 Speaker 3: to the furtherance of that conspiracy. As a result, he 292 00:16:10,854 --> 00:16:14,654 Speaker 3: really is a fairly low level white collar criminal. A 293 00:16:14,734 --> 00:16:17,454 Speaker 3: cynic would say, well, rich white men don't go to 294 00:16:17,534 --> 00:16:20,534 Speaker 3: jail in the United States, and that is generally true. 295 00:16:20,734 --> 00:16:23,294 Speaker 3: Very very few rich white men end up in jail. 296 00:16:23,454 --> 00:16:25,534 Speaker 3: That being said, this is now up to the judge 297 00:16:25,934 --> 00:16:30,254 Speaker 3: who Trump has been berating and really daring to send 298 00:16:30,374 --> 00:16:32,814 Speaker 3: him to jail throughout the seven weeks of this trial. 299 00:16:33,054 --> 00:16:36,214 Speaker 3: Trump has been found in contempt of a gag order 300 00:16:36,334 --> 00:16:38,574 Speaker 3: to stop him talking about the case in a negative 301 00:16:38,614 --> 00:16:41,614 Speaker 3: fashion publicly. Trump has continued to breach that gag order 302 00:16:41,654 --> 00:16:44,814 Speaker 3: to make these claims about the judge, the judge's family, 303 00:16:45,174 --> 00:16:49,014 Speaker 3: the jurors, the district attorney who pursued the case against him. 304 00:16:49,574 --> 00:16:52,094 Speaker 3: Trump may come to regret all of that, because it 305 00:16:52,174 --> 00:16:53,854 Speaker 3: is now up to that judge. It's going to be 306 00:16:53,894 --> 00:16:57,574 Speaker 3: fascinating to see whether he considers any form of custodial sentence. 307 00:16:57,854 --> 00:16:59,894 Speaker 3: One argument in favor of that is to say that 308 00:16:59,974 --> 00:17:03,654 Speaker 3: Donald Trump, even though he exaggerates his wealth, is a billionaire. 309 00:17:03,894 --> 00:17:07,014 Speaker 3: A fine is not likely to have much of an 310 00:17:07,054 --> 00:17:10,094 Speaker 3: impact on Donald Trump. He's already paying off half a 311 00:17:10,094 --> 00:17:13,214 Speaker 3: billion dollars worth of fines and damages in other cases. 312 00:17:13,694 --> 00:17:16,854 Speaker 3: Does he give Donald Trump a suspended sentence? That is 313 00:17:16,974 --> 00:17:20,694 Speaker 3: also possible, and that will be a fascinating deliberation which 314 00:17:20,734 --> 00:17:21,854 Speaker 3: will be coming up in July. 315 00:17:22,494 --> 00:17:26,054 Speaker 1: Well, the US now finds itself in some very uncharted territory, 316 00:17:26,094 --> 00:17:28,374 Speaker 1: and we have talked about this before. There is no 317 00:17:28,494 --> 00:17:31,654 Speaker 1: precedent in all of their laws to have a former 318 00:17:31,654 --> 00:17:34,694 Speaker 1: president who is now a convicted felon, let alone a 319 00:17:34,694 --> 00:17:37,294 Speaker 1: former president who is a convicted felon who is running 320 00:17:37,294 --> 00:17:41,414 Speaker 1: for the president's role again, and it does differ state 321 00:17:41,454 --> 00:17:44,294 Speaker 1: by state on whether even a convicted felon can vote 322 00:17:44,494 --> 00:17:46,654 Speaker 1: in an election. He lives in Florida, but this is 323 00:17:46,654 --> 00:17:50,174 Speaker 1: in New York conviction. There's lots of layers to all 324 00:17:50,214 --> 00:17:53,374 Speaker 1: of this. How do you see the actual legality of 325 00:17:53,414 --> 00:17:56,654 Speaker 1: a former president who is now a felon running for 326 00:17:56,694 --> 00:18:00,334 Speaker 1: president again, who may be restricted from actually voting in 327 00:18:00,374 --> 00:18:00,814 Speaker 1: an election. 328 00:18:01,654 --> 00:18:05,014 Speaker 3: It seems as though even though Florida has very strict 329 00:18:05,094 --> 00:18:09,294 Speaker 3: laws about felons and even former felons vosing, it remains 330 00:18:09,334 --> 00:18:11,414 Speaker 3: the that if you've ever been convicted of a crime 331 00:18:11,654 --> 00:18:15,414 Speaker 3: in Florida, you cannot vote in Florida in most cases 332 00:18:15,694 --> 00:18:18,614 Speaker 3: for the rest of your life. That's disenfranchised literally hundreds 333 00:18:18,614 --> 00:18:22,134 Speaker 3: of thousands of mostly African Americans from voting in the 334 00:18:22,134 --> 00:18:25,334 Speaker 3: state of Florida. Trump is unlikely to be excluded because 335 00:18:25,334 --> 00:18:29,134 Speaker 3: this is a New York case. The Florida electoral role 336 00:18:29,254 --> 00:18:31,534 Speaker 3: will allow him to register to vote in Florida even 337 00:18:31,574 --> 00:18:34,894 Speaker 3: if he has a criminal conviction in New York. As 338 00:18:34,934 --> 00:18:37,254 Speaker 3: for how it could otherwise play out, there is nothing 339 00:18:37,254 --> 00:18:39,694 Speaker 3: in the US Constitution to stop Donald Trump, even if 340 00:18:39,694 --> 00:18:41,574 Speaker 3: he were to be sent to jail for three years. 341 00:18:41,854 --> 00:18:44,454 Speaker 3: He could still stand in the election in November. If 342 00:18:44,454 --> 00:18:46,654 Speaker 3: he wins that election, he could be sworn into office. 343 00:18:46,694 --> 00:18:49,974 Speaker 3: He could serve his first three years of his presidential 344 00:18:50,054 --> 00:18:53,734 Speaker 3: term in prison. There's nothing in the constitution to stop that. So, yeah, 345 00:18:53,774 --> 00:18:56,574 Speaker 3: you're right, this is all unprecedented. And it's where we 346 00:18:56,614 --> 00:18:58,334 Speaker 3: go back to the founders of the United States and 347 00:18:58,374 --> 00:19:01,694 Speaker 3: the authors of constitution. Nobody imagined that the American voters 348 00:19:01,694 --> 00:19:05,094 Speaker 3: would consider voting for a convicted criminal. They didn't put 349 00:19:05,094 --> 00:19:07,094 Speaker 3: it into the constitution. You just have to be thirty 350 00:19:07,134 --> 00:19:09,494 Speaker 3: five years old and born in America to run for president. 351 00:19:09,734 --> 00:19:11,494 Speaker 3: So Donald Trump can run again. 352 00:19:12,294 --> 00:19:14,494 Speaker 1: Well, you kind of touch on that. Polling does suggest 353 00:19:14,534 --> 00:19:17,974 Speaker 1: that this conviction may change some voters' minds who were 354 00:19:18,054 --> 00:19:20,694 Speaker 1: thinking of voting for Trump and possibly now will not. 355 00:19:21,454 --> 00:19:23,454 Speaker 1: But if there's one thing we know about Trump's really 356 00:19:23,494 --> 00:19:27,854 Speaker 1: hardcore supporters is they can sometimes take news like losing 357 00:19:27,894 --> 00:19:30,974 Speaker 1: an election or being convicted of a felony pretty hard. 358 00:19:31,094 --> 00:19:33,654 Speaker 1: We saw what happened in the January sixth Capital riot. 359 00:19:34,054 --> 00:19:37,054 Speaker 1: Do we need to be concerned about Trump's really hardcore 360 00:19:37,134 --> 00:19:39,334 Speaker 1: following reacting poorly to this news. 361 00:19:39,694 --> 00:19:42,854 Speaker 3: It's a very important question. And a very good question. 362 00:19:43,054 --> 00:19:45,574 Speaker 3: We do need to be concerned. We know that when 363 00:19:45,614 --> 00:19:48,494 Speaker 3: Trump has lost in the past, he has denied he 364 00:19:48,574 --> 00:19:51,734 Speaker 3: lost and his supporters got angry and violent, and in 365 00:19:51,734 --> 00:19:54,854 Speaker 3: the case of two thousand and twenty one, with that 366 00:19:55,054 --> 00:19:58,974 Speaker 3: riot on January the sixth. That being said, there has 367 00:19:59,054 --> 00:20:02,894 Speaker 3: not been a significant presence of Trump's supporters outside the 368 00:20:02,894 --> 00:20:06,574 Speaker 3: court in New York. There haven't been scenes of civil 369 00:20:06,734 --> 00:20:09,334 Speaker 3: unrest which some people feared could happen during the trial. 370 00:20:09,534 --> 00:20:12,134 Speaker 3: But now we do have that hard date looming July 371 00:20:12,254 --> 00:20:16,214 Speaker 3: the eleventh, when Donald Trump will be sentenced. Hypothetically, on 372 00:20:16,294 --> 00:20:19,014 Speaker 3: that day, Donald Trump could be taken down to the 373 00:20:19,054 --> 00:20:22,534 Speaker 3: cells to begin a prison sentence. That could be the 374 00:20:22,614 --> 00:20:25,854 Speaker 3: spark that ignites a powder keg under the United States. 375 00:20:26,294 --> 00:20:28,734 Speaker 3: It is unlikely that he goes to jail. Therefore, it 376 00:20:28,774 --> 00:20:31,174 Speaker 3: is unlikely that it will be such a trigger. But 377 00:20:31,414 --> 00:20:34,174 Speaker 3: in the weeks ahead we could well see a lot 378 00:20:34,214 --> 00:20:39,454 Speaker 3: of pro Trump demonstrations breaking out. If there aren't massive demonstrations, 379 00:20:39,774 --> 00:20:42,494 Speaker 3: then that will also tell us something about where his 380 00:20:42,574 --> 00:20:45,654 Speaker 3: supporters are at right now. And of course, in the 381 00:20:45,694 --> 00:20:48,654 Speaker 3: next couple of weeks we have the bizarre situation where 382 00:20:48,654 --> 00:20:51,334 Speaker 3: we have the first presidential debate at the end of 383 00:20:51,414 --> 00:20:56,414 Speaker 3: June between President Joe Biden and convicted criminal Donald J. Trump. 384 00:20:56,694 --> 00:21:00,174 Speaker 3: That is going to be something to see. 385 00:21:02,614 --> 00:21:05,214 Speaker 1: We will keep you updated on July eleven when this 386 00:21:05,294 --> 00:21:08,494 Speaker 1: sentence is handed down. Thank you for listening today, friends, 387 00:21:08,534 --> 00:21:11,174 Speaker 1: taking some time to fear need your mind. The quickie 388 00:21:11,214 --> 00:21:14,134 Speaker 1: is produced by me Claire Murphy and our executive producer 389 00:21:14,214 --> 00:21:16,854 Speaker 1: Callie Rintle, with audio production by Tom Lyon.