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Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.

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Speaker 2: Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters

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Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on Hello and welcome to

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Speaker 2: Mamma Mia out Loud and to our Friday show. It's

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Speaker 2: the show where we step out of the news cycle

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Speaker 2: and talk about stuff that has nothing to do with

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Speaker 2: all that. Today it's Friday, the twenty fifth of October,

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Speaker 2: and I am Holly Wainwright.

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Speaker 3: I am Jesse Stephens, and I'm m Venam.

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Speaker 4: I normally co host our daily entertainment podcast, The Spill,

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Speaker 4: but today I have a record that I really wanted

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Speaker 4: to share with you, so I kicked me off.

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Speaker 2: Welcome EM on today's show. Do you have a friend

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Speaker 2: that you love but somehow they never ever make your

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Speaker 2: Instagram grid? Are you that friend? Yes, you know what

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Speaker 2: I'm talking about. Welcome to the new politics of social

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Speaker 2: media friendship. Also the most ridiculously wonderful TV show of

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Speaker 2: the year, an interview that made Jesse Stephens swoon, and

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Speaker 2: EM's twenty minute face re team It's recommendations and our

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Speaker 2: bests of worths of the week include revealing riding mistakes

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Speaker 2: and Stephens's accolade and sitting down. But first, Jesse Stevens

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Speaker 2: be my shean.

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Speaker 3: Came in today and so I'm going to do a hall.

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Speaker 3: It's like summer stuff, but literally came in four ds.

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Speaker 4: Very big shopping holl.

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Speaker 3: L had to do it, y'all.

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Speaker 4: I just got a new H and M order, so

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Speaker 4: let's open it and try it on together.

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Speaker 3: I don't even know where to start.

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Speaker 5: In case you missed it, the TikTok shopping hall has

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Speaker 5: turned young shoppers into what has been termed serial returners,

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Speaker 5: which is seriously affecting retail profitability. So this was in

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Speaker 5: a report from the Telegraph UK this week and it

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Speaker 5: was revealed that gen Z's are sending back almost seven

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Speaker 5: million pounds worth of items a year. Why are they

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Speaker 5: doing this? Because of the surgeon popularity in the clothing

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Speaker 5: hall whereby you buy a bunch of clothes. Some of

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Speaker 5: them are actually the same items, but they're in different colors, sizes,

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Speaker 5: and you try them on on TikTok, so you get

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Speaker 5: a big bag. I've seen this and like they tried on,

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Speaker 5: They're like should I keep this?

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Speaker 1: I not?

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Speaker 5: And then whatever you don't want you just send it

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Speaker 5: all back. So why is that a problem? Well, it's

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Speaker 5: putting an unprecedented strain on retailers. According to Richard Limb,

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Speaker 5: who's the chief executive of Retail Economics, someone has to

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Speaker 5: process all of these returns. ASOS said last year that

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Speaker 5: frequent returners were costing them six pounds per order. What's that, Holly,

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Speaker 5: twelve dollars. Twelve dollars pretty much with some of those

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Speaker 5: customers ordering two or three times a month and then

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Speaker 5: returning ninety percent of what they received. Ninety percent is

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Speaker 5: what they're returning. M Are you a serial returner? You're young,

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Speaker 5: You're cue.

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Speaker 4: I used to be a serial returner. When I was younger,

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Speaker 4: I would buy like I would usually be with pants

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Speaker 4: and jeans because I'm like a different size in every

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Speaker 4: gene and I love online shopping, so I'd buy like

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Speaker 4: jeans that were different sizes, like a size a same gene,

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Speaker 4: size eight ten, going there a shin No, that's a

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Speaker 4: whole other convention.

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Speaker 2: But I stopped.

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Speaker 4: I stopped doing this because a few years ago I

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Speaker 4: actually interviewed New South Wales Young Australian of the Year

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Speaker 4: Lotty dl. She was a sustainability educator and she taught

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Speaker 4: me about bracketing. Have you heard about this, Yeoh, So

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Speaker 4: racketing is labeled as fashions hidden returns problem, and it

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Speaker 4: shows that the chances of the clothes being returned very

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Speaker 4: rarely do they end up back on the shelves, and

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Speaker 4: I think it's because of this economic stuff. So firstly

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Speaker 4: with carbon, like you're creating carbon by getting the packages

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Speaker 4: sent to you creating carbon by delivering it back. But

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Speaker 4: it also with some brands, depending on the brand and

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Speaker 4: the value of the clothes, it sometimes costs them less

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Speaker 4: to send it to landfill rather than repackaging, washing, resealing,

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Speaker 4: putting it back on the website and selling it again.

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Speaker 5: Oh my god, I've heard that it is like less

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Speaker 5: than fifty percent get back on so it can take

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Speaker 5: a long time. So even it's kind of like maybe

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Speaker 5: they're not even selling it by the time you get

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Speaker 5: back with a lot of the really fast fashion ones.

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Speaker 5: And then even if they do resell it, it's like

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Speaker 5: they take the plastic away, they put it in new plastic,

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Speaker 5: and then yeah, once you put it in a truck

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Speaker 5: and a blar and a bla. They've gotten better at

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Speaker 5: the sustainability of sending it out, but they've not gotten

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Speaker 5: better at the sustainability of sending it back.

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Speaker 2: I have so many questions because sending anything back is

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Speaker 2: my worst night. There are things in my wardrobe that

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Speaker 2: I should have sent back, like shoes that don't quite fit.

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Speaker 2: But just the process, like the admin involved in like repackaging,

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Speaker 2: go to the post office, da da da da dah,

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Speaker 2: Like why don't they they wouldn't it be easier to

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Speaker 2: just go to a shop and walk into a chaine

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Speaker 2: room and try on three pairs of jeans.

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Speaker 4: No, because then sometimes when you've had LUNs, you can't

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Speaker 4: try jeans and you need to wait until you get

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Speaker 4: your package. You get your package and then you're like, okay,

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Speaker 4: now it's a good time to try these jeans on.

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Speaker 4: I also think it's because a lot of brands now

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Speaker 4: are doing free returns, so they made it quite well.

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Speaker 2: They know because they know that this is a thing.

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Speaker 5: And really and really long, like sometimes it's a month

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Speaker 5: or two months that you've got to re which is

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Speaker 5: really good.

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Speaker 4: So on the like TikTok's side, like you're saying that

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Speaker 4: we're costing you a lot, but then you're making it

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Speaker 4: really cheap for us to do it.

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Speaker 5: Which is do it clearly because it's such a pool

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Speaker 5: for the consumer. Like I won't buy something online if

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Speaker 5: that's not returns. Yeah, right, and especially I check for

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Speaker 5: free returns because that is like so appealing to me.

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Speaker 5: But I went into a post office recently to.

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Speaker 3: Pick up a package.

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Speaker 5: Don't even get me started on having to go to

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Speaker 5: a post office to pick something up. But I was

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Speaker 5: in there, all young women, all with bags. I just went,

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Speaker 5: this is so interesting because young people weren't in.

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Speaker 3: The post office ten years ago.

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Speaker 5: I swear Australia post was like, what are we going

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Speaker 5: to do now that email's here?

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Speaker 3: And then young women were like, We've got you, We

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Speaker 3: have got you.

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Speaker 2: Who appears the most on your Instagram feed or your

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Speaker 2: Facebook timeline? Even? Is it your buddies, your parents, your babies,

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Speaker 2: your pets? Is it you? In a date book of

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Speaker 2: birthday dinners, work promotions and assorted life lately updates? Do

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Speaker 2: you post more or less about the people you like

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Speaker 2: the most or about the people you'd like others to

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Speaker 2: think you like the most? I think the answer to

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Speaker 2: these questions varies depending on your age, your job, your

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Speaker 2: life stage. But what I'd never considered until this very morning,

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Speaker 2: when Emily Vernon brought it up to me, is that

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Speaker 2: there might be a person or people in my life

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Speaker 2: and yours who are offended that they're not on your

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Speaker 2: grid more or at all. M tell me about the

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Speaker 2: secret Mistress friend.

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Speaker 4: So I came across this TikTok by this user named Lucy,

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Speaker 4: and there was a piece to camera and she seemed

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Speaker 4: a bit upset. She said, that is anyone else the

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Speaker 4: secret Mistress friend?

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Speaker 6: I'm the one that will do all the emotional regulation

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Speaker 6: and do all of the therapy sessions and be there

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Speaker 6: twenty four fucking seven, but then not post about, not mentioned,

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Speaker 6: no fucking birthday.

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Speaker 4: Things, nothing, And it feels like that she's living in

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Speaker 4: like the secret compartment of their life, like she's a mistress.

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Speaker 2: Like secret sector. Remember that episode, you know the how everything.

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Speaker 2: Obviously I have to bring back to an episode of

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Speaker 2: Sex and the City, because because I do secret sex,

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Speaker 2: was this episode where it was people who you were

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Speaker 2: in a relationship with. I bet you would have some

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Speaker 2: stories about this to him, but you're not ready for

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Speaker 2: anyone to know that you are yet. So it's like

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Speaker 2: and sometimes it's you who's the secret sex and you

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Speaker 2: find that they're taking you to a restaurant that's like

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Speaker 2: really out of the way where they know they're not

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Speaker 2: going to see anyone they know. It's almost like the

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Speaker 2: modern day friendship equivalent of that. But here's what I

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Speaker 2: didn't understand, because one of the things that I thought

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Speaker 2: is that if I'm out for dinner with my girlfriends

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Speaker 2: and we're having a really nice night, I don't post

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Speaker 2: about that. That's not the kind of thing I post about.

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Speaker 4: So your friends are your secret mistress.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I assume that they all know that our friendship

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Speaker 2: does not need to be performed. But now I think,

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Speaker 2: did they think that I am keeping them secret?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 4: They one hundred percent do. Because you can't go to

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Speaker 4: dinner with your friend not post them, or even worse,

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Speaker 4: post the dinner but not tag them and not show them,

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Speaker 4: and then the next day go to dinner with me

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Speaker 4: and Jesse and then post us and tag.

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Speaker 5: Have you ever been to a dinner where some people

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Speaker 5: from the dinner go off and take photos and then

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Speaker 5: post it.

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Speaker 4: No one does that, I like in the bathroom it.

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Speaker 5: Yes, I've experienced it, and I've been like, oh, I

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Speaker 5: mind the table, We're taking the pictures to mark my dinner,

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Speaker 5: and I'm.

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Speaker 3: Like can I have a tag?

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Speaker 2: People really do that?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, because I think that they know they're the photo people.

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Speaker 5: They know I'm not the photo person that if they

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Speaker 5: asked me, I'd make it weird and I'd be awkward

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Speaker 5: and I don't know how to pose and I'd rather

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Speaker 5: just sit there and.

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Speaker 4: Are you okay with not being the photo person?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? I am.

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Speaker 5: It's funny because me, it's talked on this show before

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Speaker 5: about how she feels like social media at the moment

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Speaker 5: is leaking intimacy in certain experiences that we're having, whether

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Speaker 5: it's with our family or our friends or holidays or whatever.

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Speaker 5: There's this I don't know, it feels transgressive to go,

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Speaker 5: I'm not going to post like it feels countercultural. I

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Speaker 5: think especially for maybe Gen X and millennial women who

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Speaker 5: have come up with this big revolution in media. Like

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Speaker 5: I still remember the Facebook. We would go out clubbing

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Speaker 5: and I would have my.

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Speaker 4: Digital camera, digital camera.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I would make head.

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Speaker 4: I would make Friday Nights.

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Speaker 5: I would make multiple Facebook albums and it would be

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Speaker 5: of a shoe and it would be of a blur

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Speaker 5: and it was like there was no such thing as intimacy.

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Speaker 5: That now I'm just like, it's like a hangover. I

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Speaker 5: read someone refer to it as like an immune response

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Speaker 5: to that that the body is just kind of like

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Speaker 5: I need to keep you away, and the internet oscillates,

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Speaker 5: I think, very quickly between kind of like overexposure and

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Speaker 5: then pulling it all back. So there's this new trend

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Speaker 5: of the no grid, like people are taking away their

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Speaker 5: their grids or deleting their whole grids. And I've noticed

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Speaker 5: that with nearly every gen Z I follow, if I

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Speaker 5: go on to their account, they've got like six or

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Speaker 5: seven photos, like they don't have this sprawling grid which

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Speaker 5: I do of every thing I've ever posted. I didn't

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Speaker 5: realize you could take it away.

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Speaker 2: I didn't know that was an option. I thought that

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Speaker 2: the whole point was this is a record of my life,

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Speaker 2: and to delete anything from it would be to deny

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Speaker 2: a moment in time.

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Speaker 5: I thought, anytime I've seen someone, if Maya deleted her grid,

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Speaker 5: I would call her on the phone, which I never do,

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Speaker 5: and I would say, are you having an identity crisis?

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Speaker 5: I would think that she was in a moment of

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Speaker 5: profound crisis and she needed a welfare check if she

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Speaker 5: deleted it.

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Speaker 3: But the Genza heads are just like.

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Speaker 5: What even is identity? What is fixed? And I'm like,

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Speaker 5: what you can't just break the rule?

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Speaker 2: Okay, but there's a conflict here because you're saying it's

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Speaker 2: not cool to post a lot, but you're telling me

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Speaker 2: em that if you go out for a girl's dinner

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Speaker 2: and it is not posted, then that's somehow slight. I'm

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Speaker 2: not never posted. To me if I'm having dinner with

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Speaker 2: my girlfriend's on like a random if it's birthday or

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Speaker 2: something different, but like a random Thursday night pastor, it

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Speaker 2: wouldn't even occur to me that I should post that.

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Speaker 4: No, it's not like post it in general. It's more

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Speaker 4: like if there's a group of your friends that you

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Speaker 4: don't post o other people, so you're still posting, but

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Speaker 4: only certain people. And it's the friends that who don't

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Speaker 4: get posted, who are like what the hell? Like I

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Speaker 4: see you once a week, we have beautiful dinners, we

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Speaker 4: hang out all the time. I put makeup on, I

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Speaker 4: dress up for you, and not once have I appeared

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Speaker 4: on your grid. People don't even know we're friends.

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Speaker 2: Why do you want people to know your friends?

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Speaker 4: Because then people ask are you still friends with so

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Speaker 4: and so? I haven't seen them on your.

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Speaker 2: Instagram, so it is a document of your life, like

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Speaker 2: it is, what's like, what.

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Speaker 4: Will happen if, like, I still don't understand the leaking

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Speaker 4: of intimacy, because what will happen if you do post

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Speaker 4: those photos with your friends?

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Speaker 2: Well, I think the problem is is that people begin

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Speaker 2: to struggle with every social event and friendship moment being

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Speaker 2: for the grid. Right, So let's talk about Thursday night,

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Speaker 2: pasta dinner. Right, you know, we're all talking, we're just

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Speaker 2: having a good time, it's an ordinary night. At what

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Speaker 2: point are we all like photo time? And then we're

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Speaker 2: all who's approving this picture? Like do you like how

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Speaker 2: you look? And do you look like how you look?

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Speaker 2: And do we tag the restaurant? Not tag the restaurant?

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Speaker 4: And I always take the restaurant. I don't know where

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Speaker 4: you're going? And then we're.

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Speaker 2: Very like I feel like that changes the purpose and

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Speaker 2: the dynamic of the evening, right, And the and the

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Speaker 2: thing that people begin to panic about about intimacy leak

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Speaker 2: is are we performing going out for dinner with our

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Speaker 2: friends rather than just going out for dinner with our friends?

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Speaker 2: And I think because.

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Speaker 3: That takes you out of the moment.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's to me. It's like, say, it's my

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Speaker 2: friend's birthday and we go out for dinner and I

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Speaker 2: post about it and I'm like, happy birthday, Betty. You

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Speaker 2: know that's my act of like appreciation of Betty. But

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Speaker 2: hopefully she already knows that I appreciate her Like that

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Speaker 2: isn't my real life, do you know what I mean?

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Speaker 2: My grid and my feed is not my real life.

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Speaker 4: But it doesn't have to be like a pose photo,

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Speaker 4: like a curated photo. It can be like a blurry

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Speaker 4: photo of your pasta while you're eating it, and I

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Speaker 4: just want to see the list of your friends that

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Speaker 4: you're with in the tag, but just so I can

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Speaker 4: stalk them, especially if they're hot. If they're a hot friend,

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Speaker 4: I definitely need.

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Speaker 2: It's totally so, say my daughter, who growing up in

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Speaker 2: the world of snap maps, did they have snap maps

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Speaker 2: around when you were didn't have right, So it is

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Speaker 2: so normal for you for the idea of like who

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Speaker 2: are you with? Where are you? I need to know

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Speaker 2: all interesting that so and so wasn't there, like.

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Speaker 5: I just and they wanted to disappear, which is what

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Speaker 5: Snapchat realized really early on, which is why the grid

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Speaker 5: is gone. The grid is gone because younger people don't

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Speaker 5: want that footprint. They've seen it happen enough that it

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Speaker 5: comes back to bite you, like she wants to.

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Speaker 3: Know happy with my story.

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Speaker 4: It's happy with a story that's twenty four hours.

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Speaker 3: She's happy with the story impermanent. Yes.

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Speaker 5: And what I think you're also speaking to is the

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Speaker 5: photo dump, which is another trend which there was an

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Speaker 5: article recently in The New Yorker about this. What we

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Speaker 5: do online is completely shaped by the algorithm. It's not,

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Speaker 5: you know, just people deciding all of a sudden they'd

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Speaker 5: like to post twenty photos. But in August, I think

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Speaker 5: Instagram went from letting you post ten photos to letting

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Speaker 5: you post twenty. And you remember j Loo just after

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Speaker 5: Ben posted sixteen, and it is like all these oh

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Speaker 5: what a summer, and she posted all these random things.

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Speaker 5: And I think that what Instagram has become is less

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Speaker 5: like here's my friends at dinner, and more about here's

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Speaker 5: a vibe, like I'm gonna sprinkle these things and give

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Speaker 5: you a sense of my month, rather than like the

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Speaker 5: images that are like opposed the you know, twenty to

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Speaker 5: fifteen influencer posing in a bikini not getting any traction.

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Speaker 5: What is some chaotic, as a young person would say,

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Speaker 5: cooked carousel of like a dinner and a blurred this,

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Speaker 5: and there's a bonfire and there's half your friend's leg

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Speaker 5: and that's like yeah, and it's the end of month

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Speaker 5: dump situation.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, or end of week. Like I really respect the

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Speaker 4: photo dumb because I get like a weekly recap of

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Speaker 4: like everyone's big week, and it needs to be chaotic

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Speaker 4: and it needs to be from your POV and I

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Speaker 4: need to see the world through your eyes, so it

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Speaker 4: can't be curated, it can't be edited. What happened is

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Speaker 4: that the celebrities and the rich people got hold of

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Speaker 4: the photo dump and they tried to do it as well.

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Speaker 4: They tried to be like, yeah, look at me, casual, cool,

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Speaker 4: but in the corner you're like that's a chandelier. You're like,

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Speaker 4: that's a very expensive candle. And what they've done now

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Speaker 4: is that they've led us into this huge world that

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Speaker 4: we never had access before. So now we're just like

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Speaker 4: perving on all of these lives and they don't realize,

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Speaker 4: like you were saying before, how intimate these dumps actually are.

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Speaker 2: I love a further dump twenty photos thirty Furtosire give

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Speaker 2: me all of them. It's time efficient, so I only

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Speaker 2: have to look at your thing once rather than I

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Speaker 2: have to keep going. And I love that thing of

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Speaker 2: what do you choose? Because when I used to do

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Speaker 2: my best and worst of the week, I used to

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Speaker 2: do on a Saturday morning, I'd do ten and it

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Speaker 2: would always be like, actually that was because you could

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Speaker 2: only do ten. Like what you choose is really interesting,

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Speaker 2: because that's the whole point of curation, right. It's like,

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Speaker 2: there could be everything in the world, but what would

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Speaker 2: I choose to celebrate or highlight or whatever. And in

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Speaker 2: that instance, Thursday night dinner might make it in right,

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Speaker 2: like all Monday night movie club that I do with

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Speaker 2: Jesse and Meha. And I know I have this much

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Speaker 2: mocked like obsession with privacy, which is funny for someone

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Speaker 2: who lives a lot of their life publicly. But it's

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Speaker 2: that idea of if I thought that people were looking

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Speaker 2: to see who I was going out for dinner with

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Speaker 2: and wondering why Sally wasn't there on Wednesday, like that

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Speaker 2: would really stress me out a lot.

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Speaker 4: Why wasn't she there?

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Speaker 3: You find to hide?

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Speaker 2: You need to know.

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Speaker 4: I'm going to be in the comics at Sally if

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Speaker 4: we're here.

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Speaker 5: The other thing with the not posting the friends, right,

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Speaker 5: And I thought when I watched that TikTok video was

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Speaker 5: there's this evolution of Internet slash social media that I

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Speaker 5: was reading about, which is I guess the niche right,

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Speaker 5: So and TikTok has shaped this, but I think it's

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Speaker 5: sort of in every platform to varying degrees. Is that

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Speaker 5: when I turned up to Facebook, and when I turned

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Speaker 5: up to MySpace, and when I first turned up to Instagram,

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Speaker 5: I brought my whole self. I brought my parents, I

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Speaker 5: brought my friends, I brought my pets, and I brought

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Speaker 5: my job, and I brought everything. Now there's this thing

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Speaker 5: where it's like, what actually works best in terms of

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Speaker 5: content creation because a lot of this is being monetized

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Speaker 5: is Jesse does this on the Internet. So I'm gonna

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Speaker 5: show you what I do when Jesse does a podcast

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Speaker 5: and you don't get access to me on the weekend.

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Speaker 5: And that I think I'm seeing that increasingly, even with

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Speaker 5: like really public figures, they're going no, I'm not gonna

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Speaker 5: leak that, and I'm not gonna leak that. I'm gonna

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Speaker 5: have a certain part of myself that's for the public,

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Speaker 5: and then who I have dinner with on a Monday

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Speaker 5: is none of your business.

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Speaker 4: So do you use your Instagram more like a LinkedIn? Yes,

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Speaker 4: like a social LinkedIn?

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Speaker 3: Yes? Absolutely? Absolutely.

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Speaker 4: Do you have a private Instagram like a Finster?

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Speaker 5: I don't, But I was reading about this because I

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Speaker 5: was thinking, Oh, all the gen Z's I know have

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Speaker 5: deleted their grid, and I was like, because I guarantee

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Speaker 5: they have some Finsta with their photo dumps and with

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Speaker 5: all their like I don't know, hot like posy photos

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Speaker 5: or whatever, I'm certainly not getting them. But that's apparently

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Speaker 5: what gen Z's are doing more and more is they're

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Speaker 5: going because the thing about Instagram that because it's got

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Speaker 5: the public private settings, it was also for everyone. Like

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Speaker 5: I've always been aware on Instagram that it's not just

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Speaker 5: people who know me. Anyone can come across you and

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Speaker 5: get a sense of you in a second, whereas that's

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Speaker 5: not what happens on your Facebook profile or whatever. What

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Speaker 5: gen Z's are doing now is they're going, I want

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Speaker 5: to have an Instagram account where twenty of my friends

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Speaker 5: follow and it's almost like a group chat with my friends,

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Speaker 5: and then they have that separately so they can be

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Speaker 5: themselves there, which that had never occurred to me. I

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Speaker 5: thought everyone who followed me on Instagram just needs to

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Speaker 5: know everything.

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Speaker 4: And they're so active on social as well, Like I

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Speaker 4: always forget that just because they're not posting doesn't mean

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Speaker 4: they're not active, Like they're always the first to reply

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00:18:49,207 --> 00:18:52,287
Speaker 4: to DM, to read your stories, to watch your stories.

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Speaker 3: Do you have a fin Star?

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Speaker 4: I do have a fin Star follow it, but I

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Speaker 4: don't post on it regularly.

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Speaker 3: Oh is it for stalking?

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Speaker 2: It's for start it's stalking. Okay, So we also need

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Speaker 2: to explain this to out louders who aren't necessarily across it.

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Speaker 2: You might have a Finster account that you might use

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Speaker 2: to do exactly what em just said. Go and look

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Speaker 2: at other people's stories without them seeing, because they can

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Speaker 2: see when you're looking at their story.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, and have it super private so that maybe only, yeah,

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Speaker 5: a few people see it. And maybe that's where you

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Speaker 5: put pictures of your baby because you don't want all

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Speaker 5: the other people looking. Yes.

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Speaker 4: After the break, we are setting up your weekend with

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Speaker 4: our best recommendations, including a new show that Holly is

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00:19:31,967 --> 00:19:35,567
Speaker 4: obsessed with it. She literally was screaming us this morning.

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Speaker 6: He loud.

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Speaker 4: It is Friday, which means we share our best recommendations

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Speaker 4: with you, and today I am going to go first.

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Speaker 4: You don't mind.

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00:19:49,367 --> 00:19:49,967
Speaker 2: I like it.

436
00:19:50,087 --> 00:19:54,127
Speaker 4: So I am recommending a cleanser. It's the Trinny London

437
00:19:54,287 --> 00:19:58,127
Speaker 4: Cleansing Bomb. It's called the Be Your Best Enzyme Bomb cleanser.

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00:19:58,927 --> 00:20:01,567
Speaker 4: So the cleanser is amazing. It's like this big yellow bottle.

439
00:20:01,607 --> 00:20:03,767
Speaker 4: You can also get a mini version for like if

440
00:20:03,767 --> 00:20:06,327
Speaker 4: you're traveling or stuff. But I'm actually not recommending the

441
00:20:06,367 --> 00:20:09,687
Speaker 4: specific cleanser, but more the cleansing act I do.

442
00:20:09,887 --> 00:20:11,767
Speaker 3: Can I ask a questions about the cleanser? Yes, just

443
00:20:11,887 --> 00:20:12,327
Speaker 3: go on dry.

444
00:20:12,327 --> 00:20:15,487
Speaker 4: Our wet skin goes on dry skin. So I'm recommending

445
00:20:15,527 --> 00:20:18,207
Speaker 4: like oil and balm cleansers in general to work on

446
00:20:18,287 --> 00:20:19,367
Speaker 4: a dry skin.

447
00:20:19,487 --> 00:20:19,647
Speaker 1: Yea.

448
00:20:20,167 --> 00:20:24,127
Speaker 4: So I visited my friend and facialist, Lauren over the weekend.

449
00:20:24,167 --> 00:20:26,967
Speaker 2: Excuse me, do you have a This is.

450
00:20:26,887 --> 00:20:30,567
Speaker 3: Why all they all have such a beautiful skin. I

451
00:20:30,607 --> 00:20:32,807
Speaker 3: think I need a facialist. I'm very spotty at the moment.

452
00:20:32,967 --> 00:20:36,407
Speaker 2: Is it facialist different from a dermatologist? Yes? So am

453
00:20:36,407 --> 00:20:38,287
Speaker 2: I meant to have like a dermatologist and.

454
00:20:39,007 --> 00:20:42,807
Speaker 4: I don't have a dermatology artist is when you have

455
00:20:43,167 --> 00:20:45,327
Speaker 4: a real problem, when you have your ex summer or something.

456
00:20:45,127 --> 00:20:46,247
Speaker 2: And then maybe an.

457
00:20:50,287 --> 00:20:53,407
Speaker 4: Interrupted sorry on my skin has changed. I used to

458
00:20:53,487 --> 00:20:55,727
Speaker 4: be very oily, and then I started getting older and

459
00:20:55,767 --> 00:20:57,887
Speaker 4: the weather changed, and now I'm very dry, and I

460
00:20:57,927 --> 00:21:00,087
Speaker 4: didn't know how to work with my skin. So she

461
00:21:00,447 --> 00:21:02,247
Speaker 4: told me that I need to start cleansing with an

462
00:21:02,287 --> 00:21:04,087
Speaker 4: oil cleanser. And I talked about this on the You

463
00:21:04,207 --> 00:21:08,807
Speaker 4: Beauty podcast on Wednesday. If you listened, did you? It's

464
00:21:08,847 --> 00:21:11,967
Speaker 4: on my left and she told me that she wanted

465
00:21:12,007 --> 00:21:15,327
Speaker 4: me once a week to cleanse in an oil or

466
00:21:15,327 --> 00:21:17,407
Speaker 4: balm cleanser for twenty minutes.

467
00:21:17,487 --> 00:21:18,407
Speaker 2: That's a long time.

468
00:21:18,447 --> 00:21:19,927
Speaker 3: Does she mean leave it on for twenty minutes?

469
00:21:19,927 --> 00:21:22,527
Speaker 4: I actually like rapplarge my face for twenty minutes, she said,

470
00:21:22,567 --> 00:21:24,127
Speaker 4: Put on the TV, sit in front of the TV,

471
00:21:24,207 --> 00:21:26,727
Speaker 4: watch a favorite episode or something, and just cleanse for

472
00:21:26,727 --> 00:21:27,847
Speaker 4: twenty minutes a week.

473
00:21:28,327 --> 00:21:30,847
Speaker 2: Because I love an oil cleanser do They're my favorite,

474
00:21:30,887 --> 00:21:32,967
Speaker 2: So they go on dry skin. So then just sit

475
00:21:33,047 --> 00:21:33,847
Speaker 2: there in front of the.

476
00:21:33,807 --> 00:21:37,807
Speaker 4: Telly, rubbing your face, neck, declotage all of it for

477
00:21:37,887 --> 00:21:40,847
Speaker 4: twenty minutes. I've done it for three weeks. I've done

478
00:21:40,847 --> 00:21:44,527
Speaker 4: it three times. My skin has completely transformed.

479
00:21:44,007 --> 00:21:45,927
Speaker 2: In what way it does like good babes.

480
00:21:45,967 --> 00:21:48,207
Speaker 4: Oh well, now I'm purging, so it's not not backgrade,

481
00:21:48,287 --> 00:21:51,927
Speaker 4: which you told me might happen. Brighter, more moist. Is

482
00:21:51,927 --> 00:21:54,887
Speaker 4: that the right word for skin? Like plumper? Also like

483
00:21:54,927 --> 00:21:57,327
Speaker 4: the amount of shit that came out of my skin

484
00:21:57,687 --> 00:22:01,127
Speaker 4: while doing this, like black heads, spacious feelings, yes, like

485
00:22:01,527 --> 00:22:02,087
Speaker 4: little hair.

486
00:22:02,287 --> 00:22:04,807
Speaker 2: So then after your twenty minutes, you get like a

487
00:22:04,807 --> 00:22:05,967
Speaker 2: little cloth and white.

488
00:22:06,087 --> 00:22:07,447
Speaker 4: Yeah, you get a cloth, and then you can do

489
00:22:07,487 --> 00:22:09,527
Speaker 4: your double clean so like a normal cleanser on top,

490
00:22:09,567 --> 00:22:11,607
Speaker 4: and then your normal like skin care routine and your

491
00:22:11,647 --> 00:22:13,287
Speaker 4: skin feels so good.

492
00:22:13,647 --> 00:22:15,647
Speaker 5: I'm going to do that tonight because I actually have that.

493
00:22:15,727 --> 00:22:18,567
Speaker 5: I've never been very good at using them because I rush.

494
00:22:18,847 --> 00:22:20,407
Speaker 4: You need to sink in and then it becomes oily

495
00:22:20,447 --> 00:22:23,087
Speaker 4: and feels better. Rush it and you don't get that

496
00:22:23,167 --> 00:22:24,887
Speaker 4: feeling of like gladness.

497
00:22:25,007 --> 00:22:26,847
Speaker 5: Yeah right right right, And I do get the sense

498
00:22:26,887 --> 00:22:28,087
Speaker 5: I'm not getting all my makeup off.

499
00:22:28,087 --> 00:22:30,567
Speaker 4: And when you see the stuff come out on your hands,

500
00:22:30,647 --> 00:22:31,367
Speaker 4: you get addicted.

501
00:22:31,607 --> 00:22:33,847
Speaker 3: I'm so excited.

502
00:22:33,887 --> 00:22:37,167
Speaker 2: God, this is the best recommendation ever until this one.

503
00:22:37,207 --> 00:22:38,567
Speaker 4: Oh gosh, here we go.

504
00:22:39,047 --> 00:22:41,247
Speaker 2: So I don't know I have a feeling that this

505
00:22:41,407 --> 00:22:44,247
Speaker 2: is a recommendation that will divide. People are either going

506
00:22:44,327 --> 00:22:46,367
Speaker 2: to fucking love this or you're going to be like

507
00:22:47,247 --> 00:22:51,927
Speaker 2: Holly you canceled because Disney Plus has a new show

508
00:22:51,927 --> 00:22:54,767
Speaker 2: on it called Rivals, right, and I need to explain

509
00:22:54,887 --> 00:22:57,767
Speaker 2: that it's based on one of many books by a

510
00:22:57,807 --> 00:23:01,007
Speaker 2: British author called Jilly Cooper. She's actually Dame Jilly Cooper

511
00:23:01,047 --> 00:23:03,567
Speaker 2: because she has been around for a very long time

512
00:23:04,127 --> 00:23:06,927
Speaker 2: and she wrote the books that were very popular in

513
00:23:06,967 --> 00:23:10,807
Speaker 2: the nineteen eighties. Is to be called bunk right in.

514
00:23:10,727 --> 00:23:11,527
Speaker 3: Like fifty Shades.

515
00:23:11,967 --> 00:23:14,727
Speaker 4: No, it is not allowed. I'd be allowed to say that.

516
00:23:14,887 --> 00:23:17,607
Speaker 2: Like Jackie Collins, Have you ever read any of those

517
00:23:17,687 --> 00:23:22,567
Speaker 2: kind of books? I like, sort of really rompy, lightweight,

518
00:23:23,167 --> 00:23:27,447
Speaker 2: sort of satirical loads of sex, usually set in like

519
00:23:27,487 --> 00:23:31,367
Speaker 2: a high society world. Bonkbusters used to call them, right.

520
00:23:31,487 --> 00:23:34,327
Speaker 2: Jilly Cooper was the best at writing those, and she

521
00:23:34,447 --> 00:23:37,167
Speaker 2: herself is poshing, comes from posh part of England, and

522
00:23:37,207 --> 00:23:42,407
Speaker 2: they're all set in these Cotswolds, very fancy sort of

523
00:23:42,487 --> 00:23:45,167
Speaker 2: societies and a lot about class and a lot about

524
00:23:45,247 --> 00:23:49,487
Speaker 2: outsiders insiders stuff, but mostly about sex. Anyway, Jilly Cooper's

525
00:23:49,487 --> 00:23:52,247
Speaker 2: books have all been bought and are being adapted for

526
00:23:52,367 --> 00:23:57,287
Speaker 2: TV in the most perfect way that could ever happen.

527
00:23:58,527 --> 00:24:00,407
Speaker 4: It's nineteen eighty six.

528
00:24:02,567 --> 00:24:04,247
Speaker 3: You can have whatever you want.

529
00:24:05,647 --> 00:24:07,567
Speaker 6: Come to the cotswart.

530
00:24:09,327 --> 00:24:10,527
Speaker 2: Is it going to happen to us in the place

531
00:24:10,567 --> 00:24:10,807
Speaker 2: like this?

532
00:24:15,927 --> 00:24:18,247
Speaker 3: If you don't start spending some of that fortune making

533
00:24:18,287 --> 00:24:21,087
Speaker 3: a decent television, you're going to lose your business.

534
00:24:21,167 --> 00:24:23,847
Speaker 4: Rupert Campbell Black championshow Jump Up put out the past year?

535
00:24:23,967 --> 00:24:25,407
Speaker 7: It's an arrogant Black.

536
00:24:29,767 --> 00:24:32,367
Speaker 2: Rivals. Doesn't really matter what it's about, but it's a

537
00:24:32,407 --> 00:24:36,007
Speaker 2: story of a guy who buys a TV station and

538
00:24:36,007 --> 00:24:38,407
Speaker 2: he's trying to take on like the BBC in the eighties,

539
00:24:38,447 --> 00:24:41,247
Speaker 2: and it's all this right. That guy is played by

540
00:24:41,327 --> 00:24:45,447
Speaker 2: David Tennant, who you know from Oh Church, Doctor Who,

541
00:24:45,687 --> 00:24:48,807
Speaker 2: et cetera, et cetera. The cast is amazing, like lots

542
00:24:48,807 --> 00:24:50,647
Speaker 2: of people whose names you wouldn't necessarily know. What you've

543
00:24:50,647 --> 00:24:52,807
Speaker 2: seen in every good English thing you've ever seen. Right,

544
00:24:53,647 --> 00:24:57,007
Speaker 2: it is so fun. I've heard Marina Hyde talk about

545
00:24:57,007 --> 00:24:58,527
Speaker 2: this on one of my favorite progrests and she said

546
00:24:58,527 --> 00:25:03,207
Speaker 2: this show is TV perfection because it's what we need

547
00:25:03,287 --> 00:25:05,727
Speaker 2: at this moment. Right. It's said in the eighties, So

548
00:25:05,767 --> 00:25:10,167
Speaker 2: it's complete retro pawn of that time, which was very,

549
00:25:10,367 --> 00:25:13,487
Speaker 2: as we call it now, politically incorrect, but not enough

550
00:25:13,687 --> 00:25:15,687
Speaker 2: like a hort well sometimes in a horrible way, but

551
00:25:15,807 --> 00:25:18,647
Speaker 2: it doesn't shy away from that, hasn't like sanitized it

552
00:25:18,727 --> 00:25:21,287
Speaker 2: and kind of done that thing that sometimes adaptations do

553
00:25:21,287 --> 00:25:23,607
Speaker 2: where they go, let's just pretend that all the moors

554
00:25:23,647 --> 00:25:26,247
Speaker 2: of now are the mores of them, Like no, right,

555
00:25:26,327 --> 00:25:30,367
Speaker 2: So the problematic characters are problematic. There's so much sex.

556
00:25:30,407 --> 00:25:33,647
Speaker 2: There's nudity. Penis first episode bangs right full frontal in

557
00:25:33,727 --> 00:25:33,967
Speaker 2: you Are.

558
00:25:34,047 --> 00:25:35,127
Speaker 3: I love a bit of that.

559
00:25:35,567 --> 00:25:36,647
Speaker 2: The soundtrack is.

560
00:25:36,607 --> 00:25:37,327
Speaker 4: It like sexy?

561
00:25:37,607 --> 00:25:40,767
Speaker 2: It's not sexy in a way that would make you excited, Okay,

562
00:25:40,847 --> 00:25:43,247
Speaker 2: not really. It's more just like funny thing all like

563
00:25:43,367 --> 00:25:46,047
Speaker 2: funny sex, which is what that was about that Bom

564
00:25:46,047 --> 00:25:48,687
Speaker 2: plus time. Anyway, I can't tell you. I watched two

565
00:25:48,767 --> 00:25:51,927
Speaker 2: episodes last night and all I want to do is

566
00:25:51,927 --> 00:25:54,727
Speaker 2: stop talking to you and gon't watch it. You've sold

567
00:25:54,767 --> 00:25:57,247
Speaker 2: me that's fun. And what I heard Marina Heidze, which

568
00:25:57,247 --> 00:25:58,407
Speaker 2: is so funny. She was like, I don't know how

569
00:25:58,407 --> 00:25:59,927
Speaker 2: the Americans are going to feel about this because it's

570
00:25:59,927 --> 00:26:03,527
Speaker 2: prestige TV as in The production values are unbelievable, the

571
00:26:03,567 --> 00:26:06,727
Speaker 2: cast is unbelievable. But it has no message. It has

572
00:26:06,807 --> 00:26:08,887
Speaker 2: no like Higher Arc, it's just.

573
00:26:09,847 --> 00:26:13,247
Speaker 3: No speech, deliver morality.

574
00:26:13,647 --> 00:26:16,207
Speaker 2: Watch and shut up and enjoy and please it's my

575
00:26:16,327 --> 00:26:19,247
Speaker 2: gift to you. Watch Rivals. Apparently all her books are

576
00:26:19,247 --> 00:26:23,327
Speaker 2: going to be adapted in the same way, and Riders

577
00:26:23,367 --> 00:26:25,127
Speaker 2: is the one that I remember mostly, which is about

578
00:26:25,207 --> 00:26:27,967
Speaker 2: high jumpers and show jumpers. Like it's just so good.

579
00:26:28,367 --> 00:26:32,287
Speaker 5: Speaking of has you started watching my recommendation from last week?

580
00:26:32,327 --> 00:26:32,847
Speaker 3: Disclaimer?

581
00:26:33,047 --> 00:26:34,647
Speaker 2: Not yet, but I promise I will.

582
00:26:34,647 --> 00:26:36,847
Speaker 4: What do you think so good? It took me a

583
00:26:36,847 --> 00:26:37,847
Speaker 4: while to understand it's.

584
00:26:37,807 --> 00:26:42,127
Speaker 5: Quite Yeah, it's a bit weird, but I've free watched

585
00:26:42,207 --> 00:26:44,967
Speaker 5: the new second one and like the new ones and

586
00:26:45,007 --> 00:26:48,567
Speaker 5: that look. Luckily I have a high brow recommend that

587
00:26:48,687 --> 00:26:51,727
Speaker 5: is lucky to bring to the table. Because have you

588
00:26:51,887 --> 00:26:55,407
Speaker 5: seen the clips of Andrew Garfield breaking down on Modern.

589
00:26:55,207 --> 00:26:56,447
Speaker 4: Love no podcast.

590
00:26:56,727 --> 00:26:59,407
Speaker 2: I've been watching him on as discussed on Monday's episode

591
00:26:59,487 --> 00:27:00,287
Speaker 2: Chicken Shop Days.

592
00:27:00,167 --> 00:27:01,167
Speaker 4: And I watched him with Elmo.

593
00:27:01,607 --> 00:27:02,607
Speaker 2: Yeah, I love him.

594
00:27:03,327 --> 00:27:05,447
Speaker 5: You're gonna love him all because he went on the

595
00:27:05,447 --> 00:27:08,407
Speaker 5: Modern Love podcast and what they do is a quick

596
00:27:08,407 --> 00:27:11,127
Speaker 5: little interview and then they read an essay which sounds

597
00:27:11,127 --> 00:27:15,047
Speaker 5: like a bad format in my opinion, and it's brilliant.

598
00:27:15,087 --> 00:27:18,607
Speaker 5: It's a brilliant format, but basically the essay that he chooses.

599
00:27:18,647 --> 00:27:19,927
Speaker 5: So they gave him a few to choose from, and

600
00:27:19,927 --> 00:27:22,647
Speaker 5: he chose an essay called Learning to Measure Time in

601
00:27:22,687 --> 00:27:27,047
Speaker 5: Love and Loss, and it's about the grief of time passing.

602
00:27:27,487 --> 00:27:30,007
Speaker 5: And he speaks about this concept of honism.

603
00:27:29,807 --> 00:27:33,607
Speaker 7: The sense and of knowing and the sorrow of knowing

604
00:27:33,727 --> 00:27:38,367
Speaker 7: that you will only be able to live your own life.

605
00:27:38,487 --> 00:27:41,327
Speaker 7: You won't be able to have all of the experiences

606
00:27:41,327 --> 00:27:42,767
Speaker 7: you want. That I won't be able to read all

607
00:27:42,767 --> 00:27:44,567
Speaker 7: the books in the library, see all the films in

608
00:27:44,647 --> 00:27:48,487
Speaker 7: the in the cinema, to know all the people on earth,

609
00:27:48,767 --> 00:27:51,607
Speaker 7: visit all the countries, all of history, all of time.

610
00:27:52,247 --> 00:27:55,007
Speaker 7: Is an imprisonment in the life that you have, realizing

611
00:27:55,047 --> 00:27:57,807
Speaker 7: that you're trapped to a certain amount of experience as

612
00:27:57,807 --> 00:27:58,287
Speaker 7: you're alive.

613
00:27:58,647 --> 00:28:02,407
Speaker 5: And there's a sense of profound grief in that that

614
00:28:02,847 --> 00:28:06,407
Speaker 5: life is about letting go and realizing all the things

615
00:28:06,447 --> 00:28:08,887
Speaker 5: he's never going to have. And he talks about how

616
00:28:09,287 --> 00:28:12,207
Speaker 5: the people he knows who have died still had books

617
00:28:12,247 --> 00:28:14,287
Speaker 5: I wanted to read, had things they wanted to do.

618
00:28:14,367 --> 00:28:17,087
Speaker 3: He just articulated it so beautifully. But this essay.

619
00:28:17,167 --> 00:28:19,087
Speaker 5: He reads this essay and he gets halfway through, and

620
00:28:19,127 --> 00:28:21,327
Speaker 5: this has never happened in a Modern Love episode before,

621
00:28:21,367 --> 00:28:23,487
Speaker 5: where he just broke down and just started crying because

622
00:28:23,487 --> 00:28:23,847
Speaker 5: he was so.

623
00:28:23,847 --> 00:28:24,487
Speaker 3: Touched by it.

624
00:28:24,567 --> 00:28:26,607
Speaker 7: My wife hasn't worn a bikini for six years and

625
00:28:26,687 --> 00:28:29,607
Speaker 7: probably never will again. She says she's too old, which

626
00:28:29,647 --> 00:28:32,607
Speaker 7: makes me sad. She's a beautiful woman with gray and

627
00:28:32,687 --> 00:28:40,127
Speaker 7: her hair. My parents no longer drive at night. Sorry.

628
00:28:42,247 --> 00:28:45,927
Speaker 5: It's about a guy who worked in prison and what

629
00:28:46,007 --> 00:28:48,207
Speaker 5: the cell mats taught him about life.

630
00:28:48,407 --> 00:28:51,607
Speaker 3: And ah, so Andrew Garfield.

631
00:28:51,607 --> 00:28:53,927
Speaker 5: It's really affecting. I think a lot of people will

632
00:28:53,927 --> 00:28:57,767
Speaker 5: relate to it. So yeah, Modern Love with Andrew Garfield.

633
00:28:58,247 --> 00:29:00,927
Speaker 5: It is time for Best and Worst of the week.

634
00:29:00,967 --> 00:29:03,047
Speaker 5: While it is nearly time, join us after this short

635
00:29:03,047 --> 00:29:05,647
Speaker 5: break to hear why one of my favorite things in

636
00:29:05,687 --> 00:29:07,567
Speaker 5: the world is actually my worst.

637
00:29:07,567 --> 00:29:08,127
Speaker 4: This week.

638
00:29:09,887 --> 00:29:11,887
Speaker 2: Out louders, if you want to listen to us every

639
00:29:11,967 --> 00:29:14,167
Speaker 2: day of the week, and why wouldn't you, You can

640
00:29:14,207 --> 00:29:18,047
Speaker 2: get access to exclusive segments on Tuesdays and Thursdays by

641
00:29:18,087 --> 00:29:21,247
Speaker 2: becoming a Mum and Mere subscriber. Follow the link in

642
00:29:21,247 --> 00:29:24,047
Speaker 2: the show notes to subscribe, and a big thank you

643
00:29:24,207 --> 00:29:34,167
Speaker 2: to all our current subscribers.

644
00:29:35,927 --> 00:29:38,527
Speaker 5: Right out louders, it is time for us to spill

645
00:29:38,607 --> 00:29:42,807
Speaker 5: our best and worst of the last seven days. M

646
00:29:43,087 --> 00:29:43,887
Speaker 5: what is your worst?

647
00:29:44,607 --> 00:29:47,127
Speaker 4: My worst is my dad was in and out of

648
00:29:47,167 --> 00:29:50,247
Speaker 4: hospital this week with kidney stones.

649
00:29:50,567 --> 00:29:53,047
Speaker 2: Mate, I've had one of those. It hurts like hell.

650
00:29:53,367 --> 00:29:54,887
Speaker 4: Apparently he had many.

651
00:29:55,687 --> 00:29:57,727
Speaker 2: I can't even imagine. Oh, it was a lot.

652
00:29:57,807 --> 00:29:59,047
Speaker 3: Did they give him all the pain relief?

653
00:29:59,247 --> 00:30:01,087
Speaker 4: Yes, he got a lot of pain relief. So he

654
00:30:01,447 --> 00:30:03,927
Speaker 4: got kidney stones for the first time. When I was sixteen.

655
00:30:04,607 --> 00:30:06,127
Speaker 4: It was a big deal because it was the first

656
00:30:06,127 --> 00:30:08,167
Speaker 4: time I saw like a parent go into like surgery.

657
00:30:08,207 --> 00:30:09,967
Speaker 4: Even though it was like key hold, I was like,

658
00:30:09,967 --> 00:30:12,607
Speaker 4: I've never seen had a parent be in hospital. And

659
00:30:12,847 --> 00:30:14,687
Speaker 4: it was my birthday as well, and it was the

660
00:30:14,807 --> 00:30:16,847
Speaker 4: day after was my birthday party, and he had a

661
00:30:16,887 --> 00:30:19,487
Speaker 4: surgery and then was able to party straight away after,

662
00:30:19,527 --> 00:30:20,607
Speaker 4: and I was like, this is so cool. And the

663
00:30:20,647 --> 00:30:23,247
Speaker 4: doctor was like, you'll probably get them again in twelve years,

664
00:30:23,287 --> 00:30:26,487
Speaker 4: and like clockwork, exactly twelve years he's got them again.

665
00:30:26,607 --> 00:30:28,407
Speaker 3: How many years ago were yours, Holly? Maybe two?

666
00:30:28,727 --> 00:30:29,487
Speaker 2: Yeah?

667
00:30:29,287 --> 00:30:33,287
Speaker 4: Well, yeah, a while. Yeah, so he got them again

668
00:30:33,607 --> 00:30:36,367
Speaker 4: and he was fine for a bit and then he

669
00:30:36,447 --> 00:30:38,087
Speaker 4: had like a big one, but he was able to

670
00:30:38,127 --> 00:30:40,847
Speaker 4: pass it, and so they sent him back home from

671
00:30:40,887 --> 00:30:42,567
Speaker 4: the hospital. But then he was in so much pain

672
00:30:42,607 --> 00:30:44,847
Speaker 4: from all the little ones because you can't actually remove them.

673
00:30:44,887 --> 00:30:47,287
Speaker 4: You have to blast them and then pee them out,

674
00:30:48,167 --> 00:30:50,767
Speaker 4: and the recovery has taken quite a bit. Like he

675
00:30:50,807 --> 00:30:52,327
Speaker 4: was in a pain, and it was the first time

676
00:30:52,367 --> 00:30:55,687
Speaker 4: I've seen like my dad in pain. And I was like,

677
00:30:55,767 --> 00:30:57,727
Speaker 4: the last time he got them felt like yesterday, and

678
00:30:57,767 --> 00:31:00,647
Speaker 4: now it feels like he's so much older. It was

679
00:31:00,647 --> 00:31:03,567
Speaker 4: the first time I've seen my dad seem older, vulnerable.

680
00:31:03,687 --> 00:31:06,007
Speaker 4: And also because he's like a trade so I've always

681
00:31:06,087 --> 00:31:09,087
Speaker 4: like pictured him like on a ladder, like carrying a refrigerator,

682
00:31:09,327 --> 00:31:11,407
Speaker 4: fixing my air con, doing all that stuff. And it

683
00:31:11,527 --> 00:31:14,327
Speaker 4: just made me realize that in probably like five to

684
00:31:14,407 --> 00:31:16,887
Speaker 4: ten years, like he can't be that person anymore.

685
00:31:17,207 --> 00:31:19,047
Speaker 2: You're gonna have to get all of the jobs you

686
00:31:19,087 --> 00:31:19,527
Speaker 2: need doing.

687
00:31:20,327 --> 00:31:24,007
Speaker 4: Literally get back from the hospital, very got to move

688
00:31:24,047 --> 00:31:28,127
Speaker 4: my couch. Yeah, but yeah, he's okay. Now, Yeah he's fine.

689
00:31:28,127 --> 00:31:31,287
Speaker 4: Now he's at home. He's like cooking. It's like, oh,

690
00:31:31,327 --> 00:31:33,487
Speaker 4: I need to provide this family was back. But yeah,

691
00:31:33,487 --> 00:31:34,687
Speaker 4: it was just one of those moments I feel like

692
00:31:34,727 --> 00:31:36,407
Speaker 4: you've talked about it before where it's just one of

693
00:31:36,447 --> 00:31:38,807
Speaker 4: those moments where you're like, oh, my parents.

694
00:31:39,367 --> 00:31:44,047
Speaker 5: May I recommend to you? Andrew Garfield, That's exactly what

695
00:31:44,087 --> 00:31:44,527
Speaker 5: it's about.

696
00:31:45,927 --> 00:31:49,287
Speaker 4: My best though was relating to my age. I went

697
00:31:49,327 --> 00:31:51,367
Speaker 4: to a concert recently, Lime Cordial.

698
00:31:51,527 --> 00:31:51,927
Speaker 2: Have you heard it?

699
00:31:52,087 --> 00:31:52,887
Speaker 1: Yes? I have.

700
00:31:53,247 --> 00:31:54,487
Speaker 4: They were playing at the icy C.

701
00:31:55,007 --> 00:31:56,567
Speaker 2: I couldn't sing one of this song.

702
00:31:56,687 --> 00:32:00,927
Speaker 4: No, I couldn't either concert, but I've heard of them. Yeah,

703
00:32:00,927 --> 00:32:02,887
Speaker 4: it's very alt. I went with my cousin and the

704
00:32:02,927 --> 00:32:04,847
Speaker 4: only tickets we could get were the tickets like at

705
00:32:04,887 --> 00:32:06,807
Speaker 4: the back with the seats, so we were sitting. We

706
00:32:06,847 --> 00:32:10,287
Speaker 4: were the youngest people like in our row basically, and

707
00:32:10,367 --> 00:32:13,647
Speaker 4: it was so much fun sitting down at a concert

708
00:32:14,047 --> 00:32:16,567
Speaker 4: that you're meant to be dancing and jumping up and

709
00:32:16,607 --> 00:32:19,487
Speaker 4: down for. And then it was just so much fun

710
00:32:19,487 --> 00:32:20,927
Speaker 4: because we were sitting down for the songs we didn't

711
00:32:20,927 --> 00:32:22,927
Speaker 4: really know, like bobbing along, and then the songs we

712
00:32:22,967 --> 00:32:25,247
Speaker 4: did know. I think it's like consensus, like everyone knows

713
00:32:25,247 --> 00:32:26,967
Speaker 4: that even if you're sitting down, you can stand up

714
00:32:26,967 --> 00:32:28,767
Speaker 4: and have a bit of a boogie. So we did that.

715
00:32:29,007 --> 00:32:31,607
Speaker 4: Niece felt great after was able to walk home.

716
00:32:31,807 --> 00:32:34,567
Speaker 3: There is no luxury like sitting at a concert.

717
00:32:34,647 --> 00:32:37,287
Speaker 4: It is and it started at nine, and they came

718
00:32:37,287 --> 00:32:39,287
Speaker 4: on a bit earlier, so they came on at eight fifty.

719
00:32:39,447 --> 00:32:41,007
Speaker 4: So I was home by like eleven.

720
00:32:41,527 --> 00:32:44,687
Speaker 2: Oh okay, I'm depressed. How old are you again?

721
00:32:44,807 --> 00:32:45,287
Speaker 4: Twenty eight?

722
00:32:47,727 --> 00:32:50,007
Speaker 2: Dance at the concerts.

723
00:32:50,167 --> 00:32:51,847
Speaker 4: But I don't know if I want to anymore.

724
00:32:52,527 --> 00:32:55,887
Speaker 2: You've aged yourself up pretty significantly.

725
00:32:56,967 --> 00:32:58,167
Speaker 3: Holly, what's your worst?

726
00:32:58,807 --> 00:32:59,727
Speaker 2: Okay, my worst?

727
00:32:59,807 --> 00:33:00,727
Speaker 4: It's not really a worse.

728
00:33:00,807 --> 00:33:04,327
Speaker 2: In many ways, it's my best because I finally sent

729
00:33:04,407 --> 00:33:06,727
Speaker 2: the final pages off for my next book. It's been

730
00:33:06,767 --> 00:33:13,047
Speaker 2: a juice well second to last five, but you know,

731
00:33:13,767 --> 00:33:16,447
Speaker 2: last opportunity to make a lot of changes. And this

732
00:33:16,487 --> 00:33:18,487
Speaker 2: book has any out Louder would know, has been what

733
00:33:18,527 --> 00:33:22,247
Speaker 2: we would call a journey. And anyway, what happens with books,

734
00:33:22,247 --> 00:33:23,887
Speaker 2: if you don't know, is that you write your book,

735
00:33:23,927 --> 00:33:26,527
Speaker 2: you send it off, your editor comes back and says,

736
00:33:26,927 --> 00:33:29,607
Speaker 2: this isn't working, This isn't working. Change this do that?

737
00:33:29,647 --> 00:33:31,327
Speaker 2: I mean, I assume that's what happens to everyone. Maybe

738
00:33:31,327 --> 00:33:31,687
Speaker 2: it doesn't.

739
00:33:31,767 --> 00:33:42,847
Speaker 5: Jesse some people like me just get a big ticks.

740
00:33:39,367 --> 00:33:42,167
Speaker 2: And so there are like stages of editing, so you

741
00:33:42,287 --> 00:33:44,167
Speaker 2: do quite a big rewrite and then you send it

742
00:33:44,207 --> 00:33:47,847
Speaker 2: back and then the structural structural, right, so structural is

743
00:33:47,887 --> 00:33:50,087
Speaker 2: like big things, and then it's line edits, which are

744
00:33:50,087 --> 00:33:51,647
Speaker 2: small things, but it's hard.

745
00:33:51,807 --> 00:33:52,567
Speaker 3: It's really hard.

746
00:33:52,567 --> 00:33:54,287
Speaker 4: I want to tell a story, it's really hard.

747
00:33:54,727 --> 00:33:56,927
Speaker 2: And then after the line edits, then it comes back

748
00:33:56,927 --> 00:33:58,607
Speaker 2: with like these are the page proofs. So you're just

749
00:33:58,647 --> 00:34:01,847
Speaker 2: literally like proofing for mistakes. It's quite vulnerable, like all

750
00:34:01,887 --> 00:34:06,087
Speaker 2: these people, Oh my god, so vulnerable. And so by

751
00:34:06,127 --> 00:34:08,447
Speaker 2: the time you get to nearly the pointy end, which

752
00:34:08,487 --> 00:34:10,687
Speaker 2: is kind of where I am now, most of the

753
00:34:10,687 --> 00:34:13,287
Speaker 2: big things have been solved. But you get your document

754
00:34:13,367 --> 00:34:16,127
Speaker 2: back and it has lots of little notes in the margins,

755
00:34:16,327 --> 00:34:19,047
Speaker 2: sometimes maybe a list as well. And the thing is

756
00:34:19,047 --> 00:34:21,647
Speaker 2: is that sometimes the mistakes you've made just are very

757
00:34:21,687 --> 00:34:27,047
Speaker 2: revealing about you your life, like because proofreaders are amazing people, right,

758
00:34:27,047 --> 00:34:29,127
Speaker 2: they make it writers look good. You know, we're very

759
00:34:29,127 --> 00:34:30,967
Speaker 2: good at grammar and we know all the words. But

760
00:34:31,327 --> 00:34:34,847
Speaker 2: they also are very particularly pedantic, like they have to

761
00:34:34,887 --> 00:34:37,127
Speaker 2: be right in their job. So for example, this is

762
00:34:37,127 --> 00:34:39,327
Speaker 2: why It was my worst because, for example, one of

763
00:34:39,367 --> 00:34:42,327
Speaker 2: the edits in this most recent edit was I think

764
00:34:42,367 --> 00:34:45,967
Speaker 2: I had the character who's this very sort of cold

765
00:34:46,367 --> 00:34:48,767
Speaker 2: guy who lives in this very perfect apartment, and I

766
00:34:48,847 --> 00:34:51,087
Speaker 2: referred to the towels that the woman found there as

767
00:34:51,127 --> 00:34:54,807
Speaker 2: box fresh, and the proofreader wrote in the margin, towels

768
00:34:54,847 --> 00:34:57,167
Speaker 2: can't be box fresh because you have to wash towels

769
00:34:57,167 --> 00:34:58,487
Speaker 2: before you use them. Always.

770
00:34:59,007 --> 00:35:00,887
Speaker 5: Is that why when I use new towels, I get

771
00:35:00,927 --> 00:35:05,927
Speaker 5: fluff on me, fluff they stick to me. I think

772
00:35:05,967 --> 00:35:08,407
Speaker 5: I was meant to wash them, and I had our

773
00:35:08,407 --> 00:35:10,887
Speaker 5: group text to wash thee.

774
00:35:12,607 --> 00:35:14,647
Speaker 2: Like I didn't know that. I thought one of the

775
00:35:14,727 --> 00:35:17,247
Speaker 2: joys of music, and you tell is how fluffy it was,

776
00:35:17,767 --> 00:35:18,967
Speaker 2: and b I'm like, you.

777
00:35:18,967 --> 00:35:19,807
Speaker 4: Know what I mean?

778
00:35:20,047 --> 00:35:20,567
Speaker 7: You know what I mean.

779
00:35:21,047 --> 00:35:23,767
Speaker 2: This is what really proofreading and writers are always about.

780
00:35:23,807 --> 00:35:25,807
Speaker 2: It's the writers they're going but you know what I mean,

781
00:35:25,927 --> 00:35:27,727
Speaker 2: And they proof it is like, no, I don't know

782
00:35:27,767 --> 00:35:29,047
Speaker 2: what you said. That's not what you said.

783
00:35:29,127 --> 00:35:30,487
Speaker 4: Can you go back to them and be like, I

784
00:35:30,527 --> 00:35:32,647
Speaker 4: know you're meant to do that, but the character did it.

785
00:35:32,727 --> 00:35:35,407
Speaker 2: Of course you can't. Like the proofreader isn't like the

786
00:35:35,567 --> 00:35:38,687
Speaker 2: teacher who gets to you decide what you're taking on

787
00:35:38,807 --> 00:35:40,927
Speaker 2: what you're not and let me be clear, ninety nine

788
00:35:40,927 --> 00:35:42,647
Speaker 2: point nine percent of what they tell you to do,

789
00:35:42,727 --> 00:35:44,887
Speaker 2: you're like sex. Fuck they picked that up. But then

790
00:35:44,927 --> 00:35:47,807
Speaker 2: there's their point one where you're just like nah, keeping it. Sorry.

791
00:35:47,927 --> 00:35:50,607
Speaker 5: I fought for In my last book, I referred to

792
00:35:50,647 --> 00:35:52,887
Speaker 5: someone as wearing Nike tea and a specific shoe that

793
00:35:52,927 --> 00:35:55,007
Speaker 5: looks like they're about to kick you something like that,

794
00:35:55,247 --> 00:35:57,287
Speaker 5: and they were like question mark, and I was like.

795
00:35:57,527 --> 00:36:00,207
Speaker 4: Trust me, trust me, everyone knows.

796
00:36:00,447 --> 00:36:02,607
Speaker 5: And I swear every second reader is like what and

797
00:36:02,607 --> 00:36:06,127
Speaker 5: then every other reader's like, yeah, exactly, those shoes are

798
00:36:06,247 --> 00:36:11,007
Speaker 5: kicking yeah, sometimes specificity specific see.

799
00:36:10,847 --> 00:36:14,047
Speaker 2: The proof of it would know. Anyway, that was my

800
00:36:14,127 --> 00:36:16,007
Speaker 2: worst of the week was realizing just what a heat

801
00:36:16,047 --> 00:36:17,647
Speaker 2: and I am, but also thank god we're at that

802
00:36:17,687 --> 00:36:20,207
Speaker 2: stage now. My best is that I literally found my

803
00:36:20,247 --> 00:36:24,167
Speaker 2: life purpose last weekend, like all of the search before

804
00:36:24,367 --> 00:36:27,007
Speaker 2: in the world now all of the searching that I've

805
00:36:27,007 --> 00:36:29,527
Speaker 2: been doing for my entire life. Last weekend had a

806
00:36:29,567 --> 00:36:31,807
Speaker 2: really busy weekend because Brent was away in New Zealand

807
00:36:31,887 --> 00:36:33,527
Speaker 2: visiting his dad. As I spoke about last week, the

808
00:36:33,607 --> 00:36:35,007
Speaker 2: kids had a lot on it. I'm trying to sign

809
00:36:35,047 --> 00:36:37,967
Speaker 2: off my fucking book pages. But I did take half

810
00:36:38,007 --> 00:36:40,447
Speaker 2: an hour to go and visit a garden here where

811
00:36:40,447 --> 00:36:42,167
Speaker 2: I live, right, I know, right, you know you're gonna

812
00:36:42,207 --> 00:36:43,647
Speaker 2: roll your eyes, but you've got to stick with me

813
00:36:43,687 --> 00:36:43,847
Speaker 2: on it.

814
00:36:44,207 --> 00:36:46,327
Speaker 4: So you post a garden on your Instagram story.

815
00:36:46,407 --> 00:36:46,647
Speaker 2: I do.

816
00:36:46,767 --> 00:36:49,367
Speaker 4: I can't get a tag. I had to.

817
00:36:49,447 --> 00:36:54,447
Speaker 2: Tag my tomatoes anyway, Berry, which is a town near me,

818
00:36:54,487 --> 00:36:56,047
Speaker 2: not quite where I live, but near me, was having

819
00:36:56,127 --> 00:36:58,527
Speaker 2: garden festival and I was like, that sounds like fun,

820
00:36:58,567 --> 00:37:01,127
Speaker 2: but actually I'm going to be honest, they're not that

821
00:37:01,207 --> 00:37:03,407
Speaker 2: fun because basically, I mean, this is good in itself.

822
00:37:03,407 --> 00:37:05,007
Speaker 2: You get to go and look at some really fancy

823
00:37:05,007 --> 00:37:06,407
Speaker 2: person's really fancy garden.

824
00:37:06,527 --> 00:37:06,687
Speaker 1: Right.

825
00:37:06,807 --> 00:37:08,927
Speaker 4: That actually appeals to me too, So it's for people

826
00:37:08,967 --> 00:37:10,567
Speaker 4: who actually appreciate gardens.

827
00:37:10,647 --> 00:37:12,727
Speaker 2: Yeah, and also, if you want to go on pervert,

828
00:37:12,767 --> 00:37:15,167
Speaker 2: fancy houses and fancy gardens is ideal. But it wasn't

829
00:37:15,207 --> 00:37:17,047
Speaker 2: really what I was looking for. I was like, help

830
00:37:17,087 --> 00:37:23,847
Speaker 2: me with my tomato problems, Like, anyway.

831
00:37:21,927 --> 00:37:24,287
Speaker 4: Google can help you with that, I'm sure, Like you're

832
00:37:24,327 --> 00:37:25,847
Speaker 4: here for the wrong thing.

833
00:37:26,807 --> 00:37:29,367
Speaker 2: They were like, here, we have a lake full of

834
00:37:29,487 --> 00:37:33,047
Speaker 2: very expensive carp and fourteen different sculptures and hedges in

835
00:37:33,047 --> 00:37:37,167
Speaker 2: this I'm like, no, no, where you're leafy greens. Talk

836
00:37:37,247 --> 00:37:42,327
Speaker 2: to me of your brassacres. Anyway, I found that garden, right,

837
00:37:42,367 --> 00:37:44,687
Speaker 2: I went and spent twenty very happy minutes.

838
00:37:44,767 --> 00:37:46,647
Speaker 4: Were they part of the thing or did you just

839
00:37:46,687 --> 00:37:47,967
Speaker 4: go to a Brandon's garden?

840
00:37:48,047 --> 00:37:52,007
Speaker 2: Because that's what this woman's garden was on the list,

841
00:37:52,047 --> 00:37:53,767
Speaker 2: And I know her a little bit, like this woman

842
00:37:53,807 --> 00:37:55,687
Speaker 2: called Jody name check to Jody, I think she's an

843
00:37:55,687 --> 00:37:57,207
Speaker 2: o louder. I think she listens to us while she

844
00:37:57,287 --> 00:38:03,047
Speaker 2: sorts a compost. Anyway, Jody's garden is unbelievable, and she

845
00:38:03,607 --> 00:38:05,807
Speaker 2: loves it. She spends half a life in there. I'm

846
00:38:05,807 --> 00:38:07,927
Speaker 2: sure she's got these veggie beds that I just can't

847
00:38:07,967 --> 00:38:10,007
Speaker 2: even She's got these old bed head that she's attached

848
00:38:10,007 --> 00:38:13,087
Speaker 2: to them to dangling. It looks straight out of the

849
00:38:13,127 --> 00:38:17,047
Speaker 2: pages of a magazine. But also just everything's just overflowed.

850
00:38:17,087 --> 00:38:20,007
Speaker 2: And I was like, this is exactly what I'm going

851
00:38:20,087 --> 00:38:22,007
Speaker 2: to do with my time when I am no longer

852
00:38:22,047 --> 00:38:24,207
Speaker 2: working and my kids are grown. I am writing and

853
00:38:24,247 --> 00:38:26,247
Speaker 2: I am gardening, and that is it. I'm writing gardening

854
00:38:26,367 --> 00:38:28,007
Speaker 2: right and gardening. I was like that's it.

855
00:38:28,527 --> 00:38:29,487
Speaker 3: I found my goal.

856
00:38:30,087 --> 00:38:32,087
Speaker 2: I want to be in that garden. I want to

857
00:38:32,087 --> 00:38:34,687
Speaker 2: be storting my compost. I want to be And I

858
00:38:34,727 --> 00:38:36,087
Speaker 2: came home and I told the kids that, and they

859
00:38:36,087 --> 00:38:37,367
Speaker 2: looked at me like I was and I was like,

860
00:38:37,727 --> 00:38:40,927
Speaker 2: you don't understand. Two years ago, I didn't even know

861
00:38:40,967 --> 00:38:44,847
Speaker 2: what a garden was, and now I've discovered that. It's

862
00:38:44,927 --> 00:38:47,007
Speaker 2: all I want to do. All I wanted to.

863
00:38:47,047 --> 00:38:48,367
Speaker 4: Kind of get that beautiful.

864
00:38:48,527 --> 00:38:49,767
Speaker 3: Yeah, I like that a lot.

865
00:38:49,967 --> 00:38:50,607
Speaker 2: You can change.

866
00:38:50,967 --> 00:38:56,007
Speaker 5: My worst is also sort of a recommendation for a

867
00:38:56,047 --> 00:38:57,247
Speaker 5: true crime documentary.

868
00:38:57,327 --> 00:38:57,727
Speaker 3: I watched that.

869
00:38:57,767 --> 00:39:02,127
Speaker 5: I'm not allowed to recommend anymore, but do you remember

870
00:39:02,487 --> 00:39:05,927
Speaker 5: the case. It was a few years ago of Gracemulane

871
00:39:06,487 --> 00:39:09,327
Speaker 5: and she was a young girl from the UK, I

872
00:39:09,327 --> 00:39:11,607
Speaker 5: think she was twenty two, and she was traveling around

873
00:39:11,607 --> 00:39:13,047
Speaker 5: the world on like a gap year, and she ended

874
00:39:13,087 --> 00:39:15,127
Speaker 5: up in New Zealand. She went on a tinder date

875
00:39:15,167 --> 00:39:18,207
Speaker 5: with a guy there. She ended up going missing, and

876
00:39:18,247 --> 00:39:22,607
Speaker 5: then they eventually established that that man had murdered her. Anyway,

877
00:39:22,687 --> 00:39:24,967
Speaker 5: I started watching that the other night. I've heard really

878
00:39:25,007 --> 00:39:27,287
Speaker 5: good things about it, and it is an outstanding documentary.

879
00:39:27,847 --> 00:39:30,527
Speaker 5: The reason it is my worst is because there are

880
00:39:30,527 --> 00:39:32,807
Speaker 5: a few things I remembered from this case, and it

881
00:39:32,807 --> 00:39:36,087
Speaker 5: made me think about how quickly the news cycle moves on,

882
00:39:36,167 --> 00:39:38,807
Speaker 5: and how we never actually prosecute what happened because we

883
00:39:38,887 --> 00:39:41,447
Speaker 5: just get thrown all these conflicting narratives. So do you

884
00:39:41,487 --> 00:39:44,447
Speaker 5: remember about that case that one of the things that

885
00:39:44,567 --> 00:39:47,527
Speaker 5: made headlines was that what the defense had to argue

886
00:39:47,887 --> 00:39:51,287
Speaker 5: was that in that hotel room, he choked her because

887
00:39:51,287 --> 00:39:51,847
Speaker 5: she wanted it.

888
00:39:52,127 --> 00:39:55,247
Speaker 2: I do remember such a distinct, so.

889
00:39:55,367 --> 00:39:58,167
Speaker 5: Distressing, right, And I remember that being one of the things,

890
00:39:58,207 --> 00:40:00,727
Speaker 5: and it became this big conversation about choking.

891
00:40:00,807 --> 00:40:03,367
Speaker 2: I remember just Sindra Dan spoke about it, Yes, she did.

892
00:40:03,407 --> 00:40:07,207
Speaker 5: They show that clip, and this documentary shows the interviews,

893
00:40:07,207 --> 00:40:09,767
Speaker 5: that shows CCTV footage, It shows inside the room like

894
00:40:09,767 --> 00:40:12,887
Speaker 5: it's really hearing what the defense had to argue. I

895
00:40:12,887 --> 00:40:14,847
Speaker 5: almost felt sorry for that lawyer because I just went

896
00:40:14,967 --> 00:40:18,727
Speaker 5: what he had to argue. What we never went back

897
00:40:18,767 --> 00:40:22,007
Speaker 5: and looked at was the truth of what happened that night.

898
00:40:22,047 --> 00:40:24,407
Speaker 5: Because the thing is that once they established guilty or

899
00:40:24,407 --> 00:40:27,247
Speaker 5: innocence and sentencing, the world's moved on. Yeah, and all

900
00:40:27,287 --> 00:40:29,967
Speaker 5: you got with the headlines about the choking that man,

901
00:40:30,047 --> 00:40:31,687
Speaker 5: I won't go into it too much, because I think

902
00:40:31,727 --> 00:40:35,327
Speaker 5: you should watch it. But that man, who was an

903
00:40:35,447 --> 00:40:38,127
Speaker 5: ordinary young man, like and you get that sense from

904
00:40:38,127 --> 00:40:41,887
Speaker 5: the CCTV he came across so ordinary, took out on

905
00:40:41,927 --> 00:40:44,887
Speaker 5: a date. What they know they were able to establish

906
00:40:44,927 --> 00:40:47,807
Speaker 5: is that after she died in the hotel room, he

907
00:40:48,047 --> 00:40:51,327
Speaker 5: took photos of her naked body and he watched pornography.

908
00:40:51,807 --> 00:40:53,447
Speaker 5: They are just two of the details. There are a

909
00:40:53,487 --> 00:40:56,247
Speaker 5: hundred other details about what he did, but you go,

910
00:40:56,727 --> 00:40:59,687
Speaker 5: it was in the media. It was like positioned as

911
00:40:59,767 --> 00:41:04,007
Speaker 5: this accident and that in order to defend.

912
00:41:03,767 --> 00:41:07,647
Speaker 2: Almost even like almost her fault. So I felt like

913
00:41:08,087 --> 00:41:10,647
Speaker 2: young women wanting today dangerous sex acts.

914
00:41:10,767 --> 00:41:13,487
Speaker 5: I mean, poor man's life is ruined because of what

915
00:41:13,527 --> 00:41:17,047
Speaker 5: she wanted. That in order to defend someone who's accused

916
00:41:17,087 --> 00:41:19,847
Speaker 5: of murder, you have to defame a dead woman, Like

917
00:41:19,927 --> 00:41:21,727
Speaker 5: that's so fucked up.

918
00:41:21,607 --> 00:41:22,727
Speaker 3: And I just, oh my god.

919
00:41:22,887 --> 00:41:24,647
Speaker 5: I think it's really important to go back and look

920
00:41:24,687 --> 00:41:26,567
Speaker 5: at the details of these cases because it gets so

921
00:41:26,727 --> 00:41:29,727
Speaker 5: vague and so confused that we never really think about it.

922
00:41:29,807 --> 00:41:32,887
Speaker 4: I remember this case because I was obviously like single

923
00:41:32,927 --> 00:41:35,487
Speaker 4: and dating at the time, and I think every woman

924
00:41:35,527 --> 00:41:37,887
Speaker 4: who was dating at that time remembers this so specifically

925
00:41:37,927 --> 00:41:40,327
Speaker 4: because I remember I didn't even hear it on the news.

926
00:41:40,367 --> 00:41:42,367
Speaker 4: I heard it like almost like a rumor because like,

927
00:41:42,407 --> 00:41:44,567
Speaker 4: that's what you did. You talked about like all the

928
00:41:44,607 --> 00:41:47,287
Speaker 4: most dangerous situations you could potentially be on in a date.

929
00:41:47,567 --> 00:41:49,887
Speaker 4: And I do remember the photos because that's what I

930
00:41:49,927 --> 00:41:51,847
Speaker 4: heard through my friend, but I never saw it on

931
00:41:51,887 --> 00:41:52,287
Speaker 4: the news.

932
00:41:52,447 --> 00:41:54,207
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's like what we're talking about recently with the

933
00:41:54,207 --> 00:41:57,327
Speaker 5: French case, where you just go, these are not monsters

934
00:41:57,367 --> 00:41:59,367
Speaker 5: that are like serial killers that are out to it.

935
00:41:59,407 --> 00:42:01,527
Speaker 5: This is just, yeah, what looks like an ordinary person.

936
00:42:02,367 --> 00:42:06,527
Speaker 5: My best of the week is my mum, who has

937
00:42:06,887 --> 00:42:10,327
Speaker 5: now retired, gotten a wood on Friday night. Oh, she

938
00:42:10,367 --> 00:42:12,767
Speaker 5: had a little awards night and yeah, the whole family went.

939
00:42:12,847 --> 00:42:15,887
Speaker 2: When did add retire? Regular outlouders will know this. Jesse

940
00:42:16,047 --> 00:42:18,287
Speaker 2: Klasma and very regular in the out Louders group.

941
00:42:18,407 --> 00:42:20,847
Speaker 5: Wonderful woman pretty much, I would say at the end

942
00:42:20,887 --> 00:42:22,807
Speaker 5: of last year, because she's a teacher, she kind of

943
00:42:23,127 --> 00:42:26,007
Speaker 5: scaled it back to a few days and then I

944
00:42:26,047 --> 00:42:28,647
Speaker 5: think she's officially retired now, but kind of was like

945
00:42:28,647 --> 00:42:30,327
Speaker 5: I might do some casual teaching.

946
00:42:30,007 --> 00:42:31,727
Speaker 2: And see how I love being retired.

947
00:42:32,007 --> 00:42:33,887
Speaker 5: She is loving it because and this is what they

948
00:42:33,927 --> 00:42:36,367
Speaker 5: were all saying was when you retire, you got to

949
00:42:36,407 --> 00:42:39,487
Speaker 5: retire to something, your garden. You've got to retire to

950
00:42:39,647 --> 00:42:42,247
Speaker 5: your garden or to ye books whatever. And my mum,

951
00:42:42,527 --> 00:42:44,687
Speaker 5: and I know this is not every woman, but she's like,

952
00:42:44,767 --> 00:42:47,527
Speaker 5: I'm retiring to my granddaughters. Like she is living her

953
00:42:47,607 --> 00:42:50,927
Speaker 5: best fucking life. It was so lovely to go there

954
00:42:50,967 --> 00:42:53,367
Speaker 5: and like a bunch of her friends were there and

955
00:42:53,447 --> 00:42:56,287
Speaker 5: like work colleagues, and she got recognized because she's been

956
00:42:56,327 --> 00:42:59,287
Speaker 5: a teacher for more than thirty years and got this

957
00:42:59,327 --> 00:43:02,527
Speaker 5: special award. And I thought, we've been at awards nights

958
00:43:02,647 --> 00:43:06,207
Speaker 5: or graduations or work things for me and my brothers

959
00:43:06,247 --> 00:43:11,207
Speaker 5: and moms are always there clap, but how often are

960
00:43:11,247 --> 00:43:15,207
Speaker 5: you actually there to celebrate your own mum. So anyway,

961
00:43:15,247 --> 00:43:17,327
Speaker 5: it was a great night. And then my other mini

962
00:43:17,367 --> 00:43:19,727
Speaker 5: best was at the day before because she looks after

963
00:43:20,127 --> 00:43:22,607
Speaker 5: Luna Matilda at different times, but every now and then

964
00:43:22,647 --> 00:43:24,247
Speaker 5: there's like a half hour period where she has both

965
00:43:24,247 --> 00:43:26,167
Speaker 5: the girls and that can be really hard when neither

966
00:43:26,207 --> 00:43:29,047
Speaker 5: of them walk yet. Anyway, she went and bought a

967
00:43:29,167 --> 00:43:32,487
Speaker 5: double pram off Facebook marketplace, and the picture of the

968
00:43:32,487 --> 00:43:34,807
Speaker 5: girls on the double pram is the cutest. They hit

969
00:43:34,847 --> 00:43:37,687
Speaker 5: each other and then they cried. But Mum, she's most

970
00:43:37,687 --> 00:43:39,447
Speaker 5: comfortable with a double cram. She's like, I didn't know

971
00:43:39,487 --> 00:43:40,207
Speaker 5: single prans.

972
00:43:40,407 --> 00:43:43,327
Speaker 2: Yes, because she's the mom of twos of twins, so

973
00:43:43,927 --> 00:43:44,207
Speaker 2: I was like.

974
00:43:44,167 --> 00:43:45,647
Speaker 3: I wouldn't even know how to you. How do you

975
00:43:45,687 --> 00:43:49,927
Speaker 3: get through a door with a double pram? Anyway, my nanna.

976
00:43:49,727 --> 00:43:51,687
Speaker 4: Did the same thing because I have two cousins also

977
00:43:51,767 --> 00:43:53,647
Speaker 4: born in ninety ninety six, so we were all babies

978
00:43:53,687 --> 00:43:57,247
Speaker 4: together and she bought a triple pram just for photos.

979
00:43:57,287 --> 00:43:59,207
Speaker 4: Did we have so many?

980
00:43:59,247 --> 00:44:01,007
Speaker 3: It's so cute.

981
00:44:01,007 --> 00:44:03,167
Speaker 2: I'm so glad there was a ticket tape parade friends

982
00:44:03,167 --> 00:44:07,247
Speaker 2: Steven because also for all bloody teachers teaching for thirty years,

983
00:44:07,287 --> 00:44:10,127
Speaker 2: imagine how many lives she's changed, how much differ she's made, Like,

984
00:44:10,687 --> 00:44:13,087
Speaker 2: I just absolutely applaud her.

985
00:44:13,127 --> 00:44:16,167
Speaker 3: They do not every teacher get enough attention. Mum loved it.

986
00:44:16,407 --> 00:44:17,927
Speaker 5: My brothers were like, oh, don't feel kind of weird

987
00:44:17,887 --> 00:44:18,967
Speaker 5: when you're get getting an award.

988
00:44:19,007 --> 00:44:20,847
Speaker 2: Mom's like, naps, give it to me.

989
00:44:21,327 --> 00:44:23,727
Speaker 3: But no problem, we've center of attention.

990
00:44:23,687 --> 00:44:27,967
Speaker 2: Or congratulations and that is all we've got time for today.

991
00:44:28,087 --> 00:44:30,647
Speaker 2: A massive thank you to all of you out Louders

992
00:44:30,647 --> 00:44:33,007
Speaker 2: for being with us all week. In our show notes,

993
00:44:33,007 --> 00:44:35,287
Speaker 2: you're going to find links to everything that we've talked

994
00:44:35,287 --> 00:44:38,447
Speaker 2: about today. You'll also find us on Instagram and TikTok,

995
00:44:38,487 --> 00:44:41,007
Speaker 2: of course, or in the out Louders Facebook group, and

996
00:44:41,087 --> 00:44:43,407
Speaker 2: don't forget, we've got a newsletter. There are lots of

997
00:44:43,447 --> 00:44:45,967
Speaker 2: different places that you can jump in and connect with us,

998
00:44:46,087 --> 00:44:48,167
Speaker 2: no matter what your social media jam is.

999
00:44:48,407 --> 00:44:50,807
Speaker 4: Read us out a big thank you to our team.

1000
00:44:51,127 --> 00:44:54,247
Speaker 4: Executive producer is Ruth Divine, who last added to her

1001
00:44:54,287 --> 00:44:58,247
Speaker 4: grid on ninth of December twenty twenty three, but loves

1002
00:44:58,247 --> 00:45:01,527
Speaker 4: in Instagram story It's so cool. That is a cool girl.

1003
00:45:01,567 --> 00:45:05,967
Speaker 4: Think that's what you should be doing. Our senior producer

1004
00:45:06,047 --> 00:45:09,167
Speaker 4: is Emmeline Gazillis, who has posted only three times this year.

1005
00:45:09,527 --> 00:45:11,887
Speaker 4: In case you're wondering, the Mama Mia out loud Live

1006
00:45:11,927 --> 00:45:13,447
Speaker 4: show did indeed make it to.

1007
00:45:13,447 --> 00:45:16,047
Speaker 3: The grid got a priority of She's smart girl.

1008
00:45:16,327 --> 00:45:19,287
Speaker 4: Our audio producer is Leah Porges, who much prefers posting

1009
00:45:19,287 --> 00:45:22,567
Speaker 4: an Instagram story over putting something on the grid can relate,

1010
00:45:23,047 --> 00:45:26,247
Speaker 4: and our social media producer is Isabelle Dolphin. She's obviously

1011
00:45:26,247 --> 00:45:28,367
Speaker 4: an expert in the field, and her hot tip is

1012
00:45:28,407 --> 00:45:31,047
Speaker 4: to just have fun, don't overthink it, and post the

1013
00:45:31,167 --> 00:45:32,007
Speaker 4: damn selfie.

1014
00:45:32,127 --> 00:45:33,807
Speaker 3: Yeah, dolls, I think dolphs are big.

1015
00:45:34,007 --> 00:45:35,927
Speaker 4: I feel like Dolphin might look like you. I definitely

1016
00:45:35,927 --> 00:45:36,607
Speaker 4: be a posting.

1017
00:45:38,087 --> 00:45:38,807
Speaker 2: Sushnaw.

1018
00:45:40,607 --> 00:45:43,447
Speaker 3: But hay out louders.

1019
00:45:43,527 --> 00:45:45,807
Speaker 5: I know you're not ready to say goodbye just yet,

1020
00:45:45,847 --> 00:45:47,487
Speaker 5: so we are going to leave you with a little

1021
00:45:47,567 --> 00:45:51,767
Speaker 5: treat a taste of yesterday's Subscribe episode, where Holly and

1022
00:45:51,847 --> 00:45:56,167
Speaker 5: I found out from Amelia Lester exactly why Donald Trump

1023
00:45:56,247 --> 00:45:58,967
Speaker 5: did that shift of McDonald's if you've seen those images

1024
00:45:59,007 --> 00:46:01,407
Speaker 5: of him serving people takeaway machas.

1025
00:46:01,567 --> 00:46:03,927
Speaker 3: Yet look, Amelia did some explaining.

1026
00:46:04,047 --> 00:46:07,207
Speaker 1: So it was essentially him trolling her. Elon Musker has

1027
00:46:07,207 --> 00:46:09,327
Speaker 1: obviously been whispering in his ear because we all know

1028
00:46:09,487 --> 00:46:12,247
Speaker 1: that Elon Musk Clove's control. He didn't actually work an

1029
00:46:12,247 --> 00:46:15,207
Speaker 1: actual shift at the restaurant. It was, of course in Pennsylvania.

1030
00:46:15,247 --> 00:46:18,127
Speaker 1: We always talk about how important Pennsylvania is on this podcast,

1031
00:46:18,527 --> 00:46:21,367
Speaker 1: and he was kind of cosplaying as a minimum wage worker.

1032
00:46:21,407 --> 00:46:24,287
Speaker 1: The franchise was closed, all the customers passing through the

1033
00:46:24,327 --> 00:46:27,167
Speaker 1: drive through had been pre screened. There was a blonde

1034
00:46:27,167 --> 00:46:29,687
Speaker 1: woman who he got kind of creepy about as he

1035
00:46:29,767 --> 00:46:32,327
Speaker 1: was handing her fries, telling her how beautiful she was

1036
00:46:32,367 --> 00:46:35,527
Speaker 1: and how perfect she was. And now on his campaign

1037
00:46:35,527 --> 00:46:38,887
Speaker 1: store website there's a t shirt that says, I am

1038
00:46:38,927 --> 00:46:41,767
Speaker 1: the first and only twenty twenty four presidential nominee to

1039
00:46:41,807 --> 00:46:43,087
Speaker 1: work with ridnald.

1040
00:46:42,727 --> 00:46:45,087
Speaker 3: Oh He's so.

1041
00:46:46,647 --> 00:46:48,727
Speaker 5: As ever, you'll find a link to that episode in

1042
00:46:48,767 --> 00:46:51,047
Speaker 5: the show notes. Shout out to any Mum and Maya

1043
00:46:51,127 --> 00:46:53,967
Speaker 5: subscribers listening. If you love the show and you want

1044
00:46:53,967 --> 00:46:57,007
Speaker 5: to support us, subscribing to MMA MAA is the very

1045
00:46:57,047 --> 00:46:59,367
Speaker 5: best way to do so. There's a link in the

1046
00:46:59,407 --> 00:47:00,247
Speaker 5: episode description