WEBVTT - UPDATE: Inside The ‘Dezi Freeman’ Inquest & The New Courtroom Revelations

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<v Speaker 1>Hi.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm Jemma Bath, host of True Crime Conversations, and I'm

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<v Speaker 2>dropping into ears with an update on the case we

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<v Speaker 2>covered just a week ago, the twenty twenty five murders

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<v Speaker 2>of Victorian police officers Verdim de vat Hatta and Neil

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<v Speaker 2>Thompson at the hands of Desmond Philby, who sent police

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<v Speaker 2>on a seven month manhunt. Philby was shot dead in

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<v Speaker 2>a standoff in March twenty twenty six after he was

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<v Speaker 2>found hiding out on a remote property in a shipping

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<v Speaker 2>container about one hundred kilometers from his place of residence

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<v Speaker 2>in Porpunker. It was there at his home that he

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<v Speaker 2>shot and killed the officers injuring a third while they

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<v Speaker 2>were trying to conduct a search warrant based on allegations

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<v Speaker 2>of child abuse against Philby. Now the court proceedings in

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<v Speaker 2>this case are getting underway. On May twenty fifth, in

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<v Speaker 2>the Victorian Coroner's Court, family, colleagues and media gathered for

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<v Speaker 2>the opening of two inquests seven newses. Rochelle Brown was there.

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<v Speaker 2>We asked her to walk us through what we learned. Rochelle,

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<v Speaker 2>thank you for joining us. Firstly, can you tell us

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<v Speaker 2>procedurally what happened in the Melbourne Coroners Court because they

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<v Speaker 2>actually opened two inquests, which is quite unusual really in

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<v Speaker 2>a crime, isn't it.

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<v Speaker 3>Thank you for having me, Jemma. It is very unusual.

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<v Speaker 1>But I mean, we've got this highly unusual situation where

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<v Speaker 1>we've had these two parallel, awful incidents. You know, we've

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<v Speaker 1>had the shootout involving the two police officers, those two

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<v Speaker 1>fall on police officers, and then you've also got you know,

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<v Speaker 1>the shootout where Desmond Philby has been killed. So you know,

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<v Speaker 1>we've had this very unusual instance where there's these two

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<v Speaker 1>ordeals and now we have to deal with them on

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<v Speaker 1>a coronial level because there's no one really to charge

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<v Speaker 1>in these instances, but they still need to investigate it.

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<v Speaker 3>So, I mean, for people that don't kind of know.

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<v Speaker 1>The process at home, a coronial is quite different to

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<v Speaker 1>a criminal process. But essentially it's to make reckons to

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<v Speaker 1>prevent similar deaths in the future, to figure out if

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<v Speaker 1>it could have ended differently. But you know, the coroner

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<v Speaker 1>kind of said in court it's not their role to

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<v Speaker 1>point the finger and lay blame like you would you

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<v Speaker 1>know in a criminal kind of procedure. It's very different

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<v Speaker 1>to a criminal case. In that way, but there's still,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, a lot of similar similarities. You've got evidence,

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<v Speaker 1>you've got witnesses that we'll hear from at a later date,

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<v Speaker 1>and a lot of investigations, so it's similar in that way, jam.

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<v Speaker 2>But this kind of opening, it's more of like what

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<v Speaker 2>they call a directions hearing, right, So it's kind of

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<v Speaker 2>just like working out dates and that kind of thing.

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<v Speaker 2>Why did we find out so much new information? What

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<v Speaker 2>actually happened? Who spoke?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so it's a directions hearing is like the very

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<v Speaker 1>kind of start of an inquest process.

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<v Speaker 3>But it is kind of typical.

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<v Speaker 1>To hear a summary of what's happened, So it's sort

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<v Speaker 1>of an agreed summary that the lawyers have all decided

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<v Speaker 1>to be able to read out in court.

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<v Speaker 3>So it's not unusual that we might kind of hear.

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<v Speaker 1>This level of detail. It is procedural as well, though

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<v Speaker 1>obviously normally you'd get a few dates. In this case,

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<v Speaker 1>we probably didn't get as many dates as you typically.

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<v Speaker 4>Get, and normally you might hear a little bit more.

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<v Speaker 1>About witnesses, like who's going to come before the court

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<v Speaker 1>and give evidence In the actual inquest, we didn't hear

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<v Speaker 1>much of that they pretty much said a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>that wasn't ready, but we did hear this summary, which

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<v Speaker 1>is typical in a directions hearing before an inquest to

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<v Speaker 1>hear that kind of level of detail.

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<v Speaker 3>I guess it's the first chance.

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<v Speaker 1>If you're not going through a criminal proceedings for family,

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<v Speaker 1>for those involved to hear a bit more in depth

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<v Speaker 1>about what happened that day.

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<v Speaker 2>You were there in court, what was it like? Who

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<v Speaker 2>was there? Because this was a huge story both in

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<v Speaker 2>August last year and then when Philby was killed this year.

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<v Speaker 2>I imagine there was a big media contingent. Who else was

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<v Speaker 2>in that room?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, there was a huge media contingent, But of course,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, it's the loved ones that is the.

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<v Speaker 3>Most interesting in these cases.

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<v Speaker 1>We saw the loved ones of Neil Thompson. They were

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<v Speaker 1>physically in court, so his sisters. There was a number

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<v Speaker 1>of other family members that were referenced, including William's family

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<v Speaker 1>that were on a link. So a lot of people

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<v Speaker 1>were kind of watching remotely and not physically in court,

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<v Speaker 1>which again is quite typical in this sort of process,

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<v Speaker 1>given how long that you know, things can drag out

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<v Speaker 1>and people are living elsewhere for them to tune in online.

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<v Speaker 1>Obviously those family members often people often ask me, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>what was the emotion, like, what was it kind of

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<v Speaker 1>like in court with these big stories for these sisters,

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<v Speaker 1>they sat calm, They sat composed despite hearing a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of disturbing new detail which must have been horrific, but

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<v Speaker 1>not unusual with these awful kind of instances that they

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<v Speaker 1>try and remain calm in court.

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<v Speaker 4>It's a long process that they've been through.

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<v Speaker 1>Obviously a lot of police officers too, so there were

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<v Speaker 1>several senior police officers, you know, you've had the likes

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<v Speaker 1>of the homicide Squad boss Dean Thomas and the head

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<v Speaker 1>of the Police Association, Wayne Gatt. He was also there,

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<v Speaker 1>all kind of there in a show of support, but

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<v Speaker 1>also they have obviously an interest in this case and

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<v Speaker 1>seeing what happened that day as well.

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<v Speaker 2>Let's talk about that summary you mentioned, because there was

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<v Speaker 2>quite a lot of new information that came out that

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<v Speaker 2>the public and the family wouldn't have known about. Let's

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<v Speaker 2>start with why the officers were there in the first place.

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<v Speaker 2>We were told it was a search warrant, but we

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<v Speaker 2>were given more information in court as to what the

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<v Speaker 2>actual search warrant was for Can you tell us about it?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, as you said, we knew a lot of rough daytail,

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<v Speaker 1>and we knew that there was some horrific child abuse allegations,

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<v Speaker 1>but this is the first time that we've really heard

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<v Speaker 1>specifics about that, so we learned about why police were

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<v Speaker 1>specifically there in the first place. So he was not

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<v Speaker 1>only accused of the sexual assault of a child under sixteen,

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<v Speaker 1>he was also accused of attempting to involve a child

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<v Speaker 1>in the production of child abuse material. So yeah, some

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<v Speaker 1>pretty horrific details there, especially for those families to hear

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<v Speaker 1>about that were sitting in court, and certainly I think

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<v Speaker 1>that we will hear a little bit more about.

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<v Speaker 3>That going forward, but we know that they were there.

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<v Speaker 1>To arrest him on those allegations.

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<v Speaker 3>They were there to seize his devices.

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<v Speaker 1>Obviously when they got there, they got a whole lot

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<v Speaker 1>more than they bargained for, but that's that was the purpose.

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<v Speaker 2>I think that probably was one of the most shocking

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<v Speaker 2>revelations because originally we kind of thought it was child

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<v Speaker 2>abuse material, and then to hear it was an actual

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<v Speaker 2>allegation of child abuse against Philby, like that is a

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<v Speaker 2>whole nother kind of level of allegation really.

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<v Speaker 3>And it's horrific.

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<v Speaker 1>And I guess, you know, you can't even imagine these

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<v Speaker 1>police officers. They're just there to do their jobs, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>and they're thinking that they're walking into the situation. There's

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<v Speaker 1>some really serious allegations playing out here. They're hoping to

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<v Speaker 1>arrest him, and you know, his hostile from the very beginning,

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<v Speaker 1>and you know, they kind of presented him with these

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<v Speaker 1>allegations with a warrant, and straight away he was questioning

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<v Speaker 1>the validity of the warrant, he was questioning why they

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<v Speaker 1>were there. He was balling out the allegations, saying that

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<v Speaker 1>there was nothing to them.

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<v Speaker 3>So from the get go, this was hostile.

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<v Speaker 2>For seven eight months, we'd kind of heard very brief

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<v Speaker 2>details that Neil Thompson was shot first, then the dim

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<v Speaker 2>was shot, but we didn't really have details about how

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<v Speaker 2>that all played out. You heard in detail, didn't you, Yeah, there.

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<v Speaker 3>Was a lot of detail.

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<v Speaker 4>This is, as I said, the very first time that

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<v Speaker 4>we've been out of here, a lot of this.

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<v Speaker 3>So they negotiated with him for thirty four minutes out.

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<v Speaker 1>Any shots were fired, essentially, you know, going back and

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<v Speaker 1>forth over that warrant. At one point he's kind of said,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, I want to take this to the Supreme Court.

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<v Speaker 3>There's a dut to process for this. I want this.

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<v Speaker 4>Before just as he told them to go to hell.

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<v Speaker 3>You know, it was quite.

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<v Speaker 1>Intense, and he still refused to come out of this

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<v Speaker 1>sort of bus where he was living on that property.

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<v Speaker 1>At the end of that negotiation, Neil Thompson starts to

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<v Speaker 1>kind of lower himself into the bus through a window opening,

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<v Speaker 1>and that was the first time Desmond Philly shot him.

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<v Speaker 3>And then almost.

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<v Speaker 1>Immediately after he shoots Vidim and as the other officers flee,

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<v Speaker 1>they try and sick cover des he's kind of heard

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<v Speaker 1>saying over and over, I had no choice. I had

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<v Speaker 1>no choice. I had no choice. And then this is

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<v Speaker 1>kind of the horrific detail that really got to me.

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<v Speaker 1>He then he exits the bus, he approaches Vidim, he

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<v Speaker 1>takes his gun. He later returns to his body and

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<v Speaker 1>you know, he's swearing at him. He tells him to

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<v Speaker 1>die and how before then shooting Neil Thompson second time.

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<v Speaker 3>So you know that second time was what, you.

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<v Speaker 1>Know, a very sort of new detail that I don't

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<v Speaker 1>heard before.

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<v Speaker 4>It was, you know, this revelation that it was not

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<v Speaker 4>just a heated moment. This was cold blooded. This was

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<v Speaker 4>you know, an evil action that he's come back a

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<v Speaker 4>second time.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and then you know, he stands over both.

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<v Speaker 1>Bodies after that, and he makes various remarks, some of

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<v Speaker 1>them so awful that the lawyers would never read them

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<v Speaker 1>out in court. They just you know, set out of

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<v Speaker 1>respect to the families, we're not going to read those out,

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<v Speaker 1>which is pretty shocking. It's yeah, and you can imagine

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<v Speaker 1>kind of the mood in the courtroom as that, you know, unful.

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<v Speaker 2>It is really shocking because often in court all of

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<v Speaker 2>the details I've read out, you do hear all of

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<v Speaker 2>those shocking details. But how to make that decision I'm

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<v Speaker 2>not going to read out these remarks. You can only

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<v Speaker 2>imagine how horrible they were. It really does leave you

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<v Speaker 2>kind of thick thinking about.

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<v Speaker 1>It exactly exactly, and you can, you know, you can't

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<v Speaker 1>even imagine how those families would be feeling hearing that

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<v Speaker 1>level of detail. I don't know how much they would

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<v Speaker 1>have known before this, but it certainly was presented in

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<v Speaker 1>a way that sounded like the family had never heard

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<v Speaker 1>these details before. So you can imagine hearing that in

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<v Speaker 1>a room full of people as opposed to you know,

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<v Speaker 1>digesting that.

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<v Speaker 3>On your own.

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<v Speaker 1>You know that the awful Sometimes that core process can

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<v Speaker 1>be absolutely awful.

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<v Speaker 2>Victim's family very de traumatizing. Yeah, I understand that Philby

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<v Speaker 2>also sent a message we hadn't heard about that before

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<v Speaker 2>to his wife.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, that was very interesting detail. Sort of as he

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<v Speaker 3>was fleeing, he sends.

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<v Speaker 1>His wife at text I've got to hear it reads

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<v Speaker 1>beb get a mile away and keep going, see you

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<v Speaker 1>in heaven. Love. So quite as sort of chilling text

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<v Speaker 1>message read out, And that really was the start of

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<v Speaker 1>it all. That was the start of it. Seven months manhunt,

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<v Speaker 1>the biggest in Victoria's history, and you know where we

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<v Speaker 1>are today. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>The other detail that was talked about a bit was

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<v Speaker 2>the fact that Philby didn't have active firearms licenses. He didn't.

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<v Speaker 2>They didn't believe he had guns, right, That's quite an

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<v Speaker 2>important detail because they would have I'm assuming, and you

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<v Speaker 2>can expand on it, they would have kind of approached

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<v Speaker 2>that house differently, or that property differently if they'd known

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<v Speaker 2>or assumed there would be guns there.

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<v Speaker 3>You would think so.

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<v Speaker 1>But I mean they did come with a contingent of

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<v Speaker 1>ten officers. I think they were prepared, but nothing could

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<v Speaker 1>have prepared, you know, these officers for what did unfold.

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<v Speaker 3>He did have a gun.

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<v Speaker 1>Licenses at some point, but they had expired long before

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<v Speaker 1>or you know, had been suspended or expired long before

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<v Speaker 1>this all unfolded. So certainly they didn't have intelligence that

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<v Speaker 1>he had had active gun licenses or guns at this time.

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<v Speaker 1>Whether that would have changed anything if they had knowing that,

0:11:58.760 --> 0:12:02.360
<v Speaker 1>I get We can only speculator, I suppose, but certainly,

0:12:02.559 --> 0:12:05.360
<v Speaker 1>you know, they went in with lots of detectives ready

0:12:05.400 --> 0:12:08.199
<v Speaker 1>to I guess, arrest him at pounds and they always,

0:12:08.280 --> 0:12:10.160
<v Speaker 1>you know, take precautions going into that.

0:12:10.960 --> 0:12:13.760
<v Speaker 4>Whether it could have played out differently is anyone's guess.

0:12:13.480 --> 0:12:16.600
<v Speaker 1>And whether that will be explored in the inquest is

0:12:16.640 --> 0:12:17.719
<v Speaker 1>also a possibility.

0:12:17.760 --> 0:12:21.240
<v Speaker 2>To more of this conversation after the break, where we'll

0:12:21.280 --> 0:12:25.600
<v Speaker 2>hear more about Philby's final moments. So the murders of

0:12:25.800 --> 0:12:28.080
<v Speaker 2>Vidim and Neil, they were kind of discussed in that

0:12:28.200 --> 0:12:30.440
<v Speaker 2>first inquest opening in the morning, and then you came

0:12:30.480 --> 0:12:33.440
<v Speaker 2>back in the afternoon to hear about the shooting death

0:12:33.440 --> 0:12:38.080
<v Speaker 2>of Philby in the afternoon. What did you learn about

0:12:38.320 --> 0:12:42.400
<v Speaker 2>Philby's final moments and that final standoff that we hadn't

0:12:42.400 --> 0:12:43.079
<v Speaker 2>heard before.

0:12:43.760 --> 0:12:46.640
<v Speaker 1>So I guess what happened to Desmond Philby is you know,

0:12:47.000 --> 0:12:49.600
<v Speaker 1>long en sort of shrouded in mystery. We haven't heard

0:12:49.600 --> 0:12:52.000
<v Speaker 1>as many details as we had about you know, that

0:12:52.080 --> 0:12:55.800
<v Speaker 1>horrific first shooting in pull Punka, So this again was

0:12:55.920 --> 0:12:57.880
<v Speaker 1>sort of the first chance to get any kind of detail.

0:12:57.920 --> 0:13:00.040
<v Speaker 3>It was a lot shorter than the first in quest.

0:12:59.800 --> 0:13:02.640
<v Speaker 1>Though, given that detectives are only at a certain point

0:13:02.679 --> 0:13:05.760
<v Speaker 1>in investigations, they're still collecting all the information, etc.

0:13:06.040 --> 0:13:08.560
<v Speaker 3>It's a lot sort of fresher, so.

0:13:08.480 --> 0:13:10.400
<v Speaker 1>They did kind of acknowledge that there would be a

0:13:10.440 --> 0:13:12.680
<v Speaker 1>lot less detail, but we did learn a lot of

0:13:12.720 --> 0:13:16.040
<v Speaker 1>interesting things. So essentially, for those that don't know, and

0:13:16.120 --> 0:13:18.760
<v Speaker 1>it's obviously two hundred kilometers from Portpunker where it's all

0:13:18.840 --> 0:13:21.120
<v Speaker 1>unfolded in a shipping container, so quite far from that

0:13:21.200 --> 0:13:25.439
<v Speaker 1>initial kind of shoot out. They've received intelligence that he

0:13:25.520 --> 0:13:28.320
<v Speaker 1>was hiding out at that property about a week earlier.

0:13:28.360 --> 0:13:30.959
<v Speaker 1>They didn't go into a great deal of detail about

0:13:30.960 --> 0:13:33.040
<v Speaker 1>that intelligence, but again I'm sure we might hear a

0:13:33.080 --> 0:13:34.640
<v Speaker 1>little bit more about that later on.

0:13:35.400 --> 0:13:39.040
<v Speaker 3>So police arrived again. It was a period of negotiation.

0:13:39.880 --> 0:13:42.720
<v Speaker 1>Almost two hours actually that they negotiated with him in

0:13:42.760 --> 0:13:46.839
<v Speaker 1>this case, he tried to lure police in during those negotiations,

0:13:46.880 --> 0:13:49.319
<v Speaker 1>which is quite sort of an interesting element to this

0:13:49.400 --> 0:13:52.760
<v Speaker 1>whole incident. He even said at one point, come have

0:13:52.800 --> 0:13:55.360
<v Speaker 1>a beer with me. We'll talk about it, you know,

0:13:55.480 --> 0:13:57.880
<v Speaker 1>sort of trying to lure them inside.

0:13:57.920 --> 0:14:01.200
<v Speaker 3>I suppose in the midst of.

0:14:01.200 --> 0:14:04.080
<v Speaker 1>All that, he's also calling them thugs and bullies and

0:14:04.160 --> 0:14:07.240
<v Speaker 1>accusing them of all being corrupt. You know, He's trying

0:14:07.280 --> 0:14:10.160
<v Speaker 1>to tease them and at one point calling them cowards,

0:14:10.160 --> 0:14:12.440
<v Speaker 1>saying come and get me, Come and get me. That's

0:14:12.559 --> 0:14:16.960
<v Speaker 1>kind of when this all escalates. They eventually pump gas

0:14:17.120 --> 0:14:18.960
<v Speaker 1>into the shipping chainer. They put sort of a hole

0:14:19.000 --> 0:14:22.760
<v Speaker 1>and pumped gas in there, and that's.

0:14:22.560 --> 0:14:25.240
<v Speaker 3>When he sort of emerges. He emerges with a gun,

0:14:26.280 --> 0:14:29.320
<v Speaker 3>he shoots it at police. They return fire.

0:14:29.960 --> 0:14:33.480
<v Speaker 1>So it's at that point that Desmond is killed. He's

0:14:33.560 --> 0:14:37.920
<v Speaker 1>killed in a hail of gunfire after discharging actually the

0:14:38.000 --> 0:14:41.440
<v Speaker 1>same firearm that he had stolen in that initial shootout

0:14:41.440 --> 0:14:45.040
<v Speaker 1>at Putpunker, and we learned that there were eight members

0:14:45.080 --> 0:14:50.960
<v Speaker 1>firing multiple rounds at him, which, yeah, we certainly didn't

0:14:51.000 --> 0:14:54.479
<v Speaker 1>know the amount of police officers that had fired.

0:14:56.080 --> 0:14:59.520
<v Speaker 4>You know what had really unfolded in those final moments.

0:15:00.000 --> 0:15:03.400
<v Speaker 2>And something that was discussed I believe was body warm

0:15:03.520 --> 0:15:07.040
<v Speaker 2>cameras because there weren't any, and they kind of explained why.

0:15:08.640 --> 0:15:13.080
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Interestingly, they didn't go into too much detail about that,

0:15:13.200 --> 0:15:15.120
<v Speaker 1>only to say that there is no body warm camera

0:15:15.120 --> 0:15:20.400
<v Speaker 1>footage the police that attendant weren't wearing them in saying

0:15:20.440 --> 0:15:23.440
<v Speaker 1>that there is other evidence that they're going to rely on,

0:15:23.520 --> 0:15:27.320
<v Speaker 1>which there's footage from up above, so aerial footage.

0:15:28.360 --> 0:15:29.480
<v Speaker 3>And then there's also.

0:15:29.480 --> 0:15:34.920
<v Speaker 1>Interestingly a twenty three minute recording that Desmond made on

0:15:35.040 --> 0:15:38.720
<v Speaker 1>his own phone of the entire kind of back and

0:15:38.760 --> 0:15:42.160
<v Speaker 1>forth and the actual shooting itself that they're going to

0:15:42.200 --> 0:15:45.880
<v Speaker 1>rely on throughout this inquest process as part of the

0:15:45.880 --> 0:15:46.560
<v Speaker 1>evidence too.

0:15:47.160 --> 0:15:49.160
<v Speaker 2>So what are the next steps from here? We obviously

0:15:49.160 --> 0:15:52.520
<v Speaker 2>heard these opening remarks, and now do police get to

0:15:52.520 --> 0:15:54.920
<v Speaker 2>go away and kind of prepare their evidence a bit more?

0:15:55.360 --> 0:15:58.320
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so they put together what's called I guess a

0:15:58.440 --> 0:16:01.600
<v Speaker 1>brief I think they call it a corona brief of evidence.

0:16:01.600 --> 0:16:04.440
<v Speaker 1>In these kind of cases, they have some time to

0:16:04.480 --> 0:16:08.960
<v Speaker 1>pull all that together. Once that's done, they can kind

0:16:08.960 --> 0:16:11.440
<v Speaker 1>of come back to court and set an inquest date

0:16:11.520 --> 0:16:16.360
<v Speaker 1>so there was a one date set for the initial

0:16:16.400 --> 0:16:21.040
<v Speaker 1>Poorpunker shooting for the death of those two officers, which

0:16:21.080 --> 0:16:22.760
<v Speaker 1>is not until twenty twenty seven.

0:16:22.840 --> 0:16:25.520
<v Speaker 4>So we're looking at March twenty twenty seven, and they even.

0:16:25.480 --> 0:16:27.800
<v Speaker 1>Kind of acknowledged in court that that was just an

0:16:27.880 --> 0:16:30.880
<v Speaker 1>estimation at this point that could be pushed back, that

0:16:30.920 --> 0:16:34.160
<v Speaker 1>could change. So we are looking at, you know, kind

0:16:34.200 --> 0:16:38.960
<v Speaker 1>of months even a year before. We're really exploring a

0:16:39.000 --> 0:16:42.600
<v Speaker 1>lot more of what happened and getting into that, I guess,

0:16:42.640 --> 0:16:45.160
<v Speaker 1>more in depth peronial process.

0:16:46.280 --> 0:16:50.680
<v Speaker 2>It's interesting because we're not often on our podcast looking

0:16:50.720 --> 0:16:53.440
<v Speaker 2>at crimes that are happening right now, and so often

0:16:53.480 --> 0:16:57.080
<v Speaker 2>I'm looking in retrospect at how these processes really affect

0:16:57.080 --> 0:17:01.200
<v Speaker 2>families and victims loved ones because they wait for so long,

0:17:01.400 --> 0:17:04.919
<v Speaker 2>They live in this kind of in the crime for

0:17:04.960 --> 0:17:07.200
<v Speaker 2>so long because they don't have that like end date,

0:17:07.240 --> 0:17:08.919
<v Speaker 2>and you can kind of see exactly how that's going

0:17:09.000 --> 0:17:11.640
<v Speaker 2>to happen. Those families are grieving, they're trying to work

0:17:11.680 --> 0:17:13.439
<v Speaker 2>through their emotions, and now they're going to have to

0:17:13.480 --> 0:17:16.359
<v Speaker 2>wait a year and then hear all these new details

0:17:16.359 --> 0:17:19.320
<v Speaker 2>again and go through the processes again. It's like, I know,

0:17:19.400 --> 0:17:21.879
<v Speaker 2>it's not anyone's fault. This is just how court works

0:17:22.000 --> 0:17:24.919
<v Speaker 2>kind of we need the time to get the police

0:17:24.960 --> 0:17:27.720
<v Speaker 2>brief all together to then go to the coroner. But

0:17:27.880 --> 0:17:29.760
<v Speaker 2>you can't help but think of the families and how

0:17:30.119 --> 0:17:31.280
<v Speaker 2>what that weight is going to.

0:17:31.200 --> 0:17:33.440
<v Speaker 3>Be, Like, yeah, it's an incredible wait.

0:17:33.600 --> 0:17:36.600
<v Speaker 1>You know, often in cases that I've said on when

0:17:36.680 --> 0:17:38.359
<v Speaker 1>they come to an end, you know, you ask people

0:17:38.359 --> 0:17:41.520
<v Speaker 1>how they're feeling naturally when you know there's a result,

0:17:41.680 --> 0:17:44.720
<v Speaker 1>and they talk often not about the result itself, but

0:17:44.760 --> 0:17:47.720
<v Speaker 1>the fact that they're so relieved that this process is over.

0:17:47.800 --> 0:17:51.560
<v Speaker 1>It's almost like they can't fully grieve until the court

0:17:51.600 --> 0:17:53.600
<v Speaker 1>process is over, which is awful. I mean a case

0:17:53.600 --> 0:17:55.560
<v Speaker 1>they said on the other day that family had waited

0:17:55.640 --> 0:17:56.360
<v Speaker 1>nine years.

0:17:56.400 --> 0:17:59.320
<v Speaker 2>Wow, ye nine years, that's terrific.

0:18:00.640 --> 0:18:02.600
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, So, I mean in this case, it's kind of

0:18:02.600 --> 0:18:04.640
<v Speaker 1>a normal sort of you know, at the time frames

0:18:04.640 --> 0:18:07.320
<v Speaker 1>are pretty normal at this point, but obviously there are

0:18:07.400 --> 0:18:09.080
<v Speaker 1>things that do happen that there.

0:18:08.960 --> 0:18:12.359
<v Speaker 3>Is someone's fault in there and it blows out. I

0:18:12.400 --> 0:18:13.000
<v Speaker 3>do think in.

0:18:12.920 --> 0:18:15.760
<v Speaker 4>This case that they will get you know, it will

0:18:15.800 --> 0:18:16.640
<v Speaker 4>be quite succinct.

0:18:16.720 --> 0:18:18.680
<v Speaker 1>I think once we get to that in quest process,

0:18:19.920 --> 0:18:22.439
<v Speaker 1>hopefully next year, it will kind of play out, and

0:18:22.480 --> 0:18:25.840
<v Speaker 1>hopefully those families can yeah, I guess continue to grieve

0:18:26.119 --> 0:18:29.480
<v Speaker 1>and reach their next chapter and hopefully feel some kind

0:18:29.480 --> 0:18:33.080
<v Speaker 1>of finality from knowing exactly what happened.

0:18:33.320 --> 0:18:35.919
<v Speaker 2>Michelle, thank you so much for joining us, and well,

0:18:36.000 --> 0:18:38.320
<v Speaker 2>I guess we'll wait until next year to see what happens.

0:18:38.600 --> 0:18:39.800
<v Speaker 4>That's right, Thank you for having me