WEBVTT - No One's Having Sex in Bed Anymore. This Is Where It's Actually Happening 0:00:10.622 --> 0:00:13.341 You're listening to Amma Mia podcast. 0:00:13.822 --> 0:00:17.182 Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters 0:00:17.222 --> 0:00:18.982 that this podcast is recorded on. 0:00:21.102 --> 0:00:24.062 Hello and welcome to Mamma Mia out Loud. It's what 0:00:24.102 --> 0:00:27.301 women are actually talking about on Friday, the third of October. 0:00:27.342 --> 0:00:30.502 I'm Holly Wainwright, I'm Jesse Stephen, I'm m vern m 0:00:30.742 --> 0:00:34.101 And here's what's on our agenda for today. There's a 0:00:34.142 --> 0:00:37.982 new etiquette guide that is supposedly for modern gentlemen. But 0:00:38.142 --> 0:00:40.222 some of it is very useful, some of it is 0:00:40.262 --> 0:00:44.462 a bit annoying, and some of it borders on the problematic. 0:00:44.542 --> 0:00:45.222 We unpack. 0:00:45.502 --> 0:00:49.942 Plus gen z are having sex in public places and 0:00:49.982 --> 0:00:51.302 they're not having a good time with it. 0:00:51.862 --> 0:00:52.582 They're struggling. 0:00:53.262 --> 0:00:56.222 And today we've got for you some of our favorite 0:00:56.222 --> 0:01:00.142 recommendations of the year that we have waited little months 0:01:00.142 --> 0:01:01.062 to tell you all about. 0:01:01.262 --> 0:01:05.262 But first, do you need an invisible day? If you 0:01:08.301 --> 0:01:10.702 if you're feeling anxious. 0:01:09.982 --> 0:01:13.381 Or angry, or disconnected or quite overwhelmed by the news. 0:01:13.862 --> 0:01:18.381 A therapist named Jennifer Chaikin says, you need a day 0:01:18.502 --> 0:01:20.582 to totally disappear. 0:01:20.062 --> 0:01:22.982 From public life. So what are the rules of. 0:01:22.902 --> 0:01:25.022 An invisible day? Well, you've got to put it in 0:01:25.022 --> 0:01:27.742 your calendar. You've got to schedule your invisible day. So 0:01:28.022 --> 0:01:30.782 let's say we go Sunday, it's going to be my 0:01:30.822 --> 0:01:34.542 invisible day. You have to tell people that you're having one, 0:01:35.102 --> 0:01:37.222 because what you don't want is for the people you 0:01:37.262 --> 0:01:39.622 would ordinarily be in contact with to panic and call 0:01:39.662 --> 0:01:41.742 the police, and then the police ruin your invisible day. 0:01:41.902 --> 0:01:43.382 So you've got to say, I'm not gonna be answering 0:01:43.382 --> 0:01:44.622 my phone, hold on, hold on, holda. 0:01:45.182 --> 0:01:47.222 So the premise of this is that on a normal 0:01:47.342 --> 0:01:50.462 Sunday you would be in contact with loads of people. 0:01:50.902 --> 0:01:53.902 So therefore, if you decide to not be on your 0:01:53.942 --> 0:01:56.422 phone that day, a lot of people will notice. 0:01:56.382 --> 0:01:58.702 Yes, and imagine you are just like pulling out the 0:01:58.822 --> 0:02:00.342 metaphorical plug. 0:02:00.422 --> 0:02:01.262 And also you might. 0:02:01.182 --> 0:02:03.222 Need to say to your partner, maybe you've got children. 0:02:03.262 --> 0:02:05.342 It's very hard to be invisible when you have children around, 0:02:05.462 --> 0:02:07.902 so you might have to say, hey, I'm going invisible 0:02:07.942 --> 0:02:08.502 on Sunday. 0:02:08.621 --> 0:02:09.462 You sought the kids. 0:02:09.582 --> 0:02:13.382 Oh, so it's in real life invisible as well as 0:02:13.422 --> 0:02:14.941 like digitally invisible. 0:02:15.142 --> 0:02:16.782 Holly, So these see. 0:02:16.582 --> 0:02:18.662 I'm midlife, I'm quite good at being invisible already. 0:02:18.822 --> 0:02:22.862 Well, you have to work out what would feel good 0:02:22.942 --> 0:02:24.422 for you. So this is part of your planning. What 0:02:24.422 --> 0:02:26.942 does your invisible day look like? Maybe you can go 0:02:27.102 --> 0:02:29.822 for a walk, you can eat whatever you want, you 0:02:29.862 --> 0:02:32.382 can do some painting, you can watch Netflix in bed. 0:02:32.462 --> 0:02:32.822 Whatever. 0:02:32.982 --> 0:02:35.662 You're invisible, so there's no judgment. You get to rest, 0:02:35.702 --> 0:02:38.542 you get to sleep. But you need to just not 0:02:38.662 --> 0:02:41.862 communicate with anyone. That means no phone, it means no email, 0:02:41.862 --> 0:02:44.822 it means no social media, and no checking the news. 0:02:45.102 --> 0:02:48.742 And it's about listening to no one's needs except your own. 0:02:49.022 --> 0:02:51.782 So like you are, just imagine you've got your Harry 0:02:51.782 --> 0:02:54.621 Potter invisibility cloak and you're just hiding. 0:02:54.742 --> 0:02:57.341 What do we think, m are you into an invisible day? 0:02:57.702 --> 0:03:00.582 I feel like, because I live alone, it's quite easy 0:03:00.622 --> 0:03:03.902 for me to have invisible days on weekends because I 0:03:03.942 --> 0:03:06.062 just stay inside and no one's there anyway. I think 0:03:06.102 --> 0:03:09.222 what will be really hard for me is the phone aspect, 0:03:09.782 --> 0:03:12.342 not having my phone on and having to tell like 0:03:12.382 --> 0:03:14.582 my parents and my family and friends, Hey, I'm going 0:03:14.662 --> 0:03:16.822 to have an invisible day. But I also be offended 0:03:17.062 --> 0:03:19.901 if I don't tell anyone and I turn my phone off, 0:03:19.902 --> 0:03:21.582 then turn my phone on the next day and I 0:03:21.622 --> 0:03:22.822 have no notifications. 0:03:23.222 --> 0:03:24.062 That's so true. 0:03:24.102 --> 0:03:26.742 Actually, I am that I have this feeling when I'm 0:03:26.782 --> 0:03:29.182 starting to feel very, very tired and probably a bit 0:03:29.222 --> 0:03:32.341 burnt out, where I fantasize about laying on my bedroom floor, 0:03:32.622 --> 0:03:35.662 head down, face first, just like maybe under my bed, 0:03:36.222 --> 0:03:38.582 and just disappearing a bit. And I think that what 0:03:38.702 --> 0:03:42.182 I am craving in that moment, it's like a visceral 0:03:42.302 --> 0:03:45.782 craving of an invisible day. And I think that the 0:03:45.822 --> 0:03:50.262 phone element is very telling that often when we try 0:03:50.262 --> 0:03:52.502 and unplug, we're still just like communicating. 0:03:52.582 --> 0:03:55.142 I know, I love being visible. I've talked about before 0:03:55.142 --> 0:03:57.102 how one of the reasons why I'm very resistant to 0:03:57.142 --> 0:03:59.142 the idea of being tracked, you know, like being on 0:03:59.182 --> 0:04:02.422 your partner's fine mine or whatever is there's something that 0:04:02.622 --> 0:04:05.182 sometimes I need to do where I am just invisible, 0:04:05.262 --> 0:04:08.702 like what I'm eating, where I'm going, where I'm spending 0:04:08.702 --> 0:04:11.582 my time, like I just it's nobody's business, and it's 0:04:11.582 --> 0:04:14.662 like for me, that's very recharging. And I do do 0:04:14.742 --> 0:04:17.262 that quite often. I mean obviously not with family and stuff, 0:04:17.301 --> 0:04:18.941 like my house is full of people, but if I 0:04:19.062 --> 0:04:21.742 do get a chance, let's say Brent's taking the kids 0:04:21.741 --> 0:04:24.702 away for a couple of days. Yeah, going invisible for 0:04:24.741 --> 0:04:26.821 a weekend is not hard for me, not hard for 0:04:26.861 --> 0:04:29.222 me at all, Like I would just be like, not 0:04:29.262 --> 0:04:30.741 really answering the group chats. 0:04:30.861 --> 0:04:33.582 But doesn't the idea of an invisible day for both 0:04:33.621 --> 0:04:36.622 of you, because both of your jobs are so reliant 0:04:36.662 --> 0:04:39.782 on being across the news cycle. If you go on 0:04:39.902 --> 0:04:42.181 visible for a day, doesn't that give you more work 0:04:42.301 --> 0:04:42.981 the next day? 0:04:43.301 --> 0:04:45.261 But what you do is, well, this is what I do. 0:04:45.541 --> 0:04:47.061 Jensey can tell us. What she does is say I 0:04:47.101 --> 0:04:48.981 want a Sunday where I basically do want to be 0:04:49.022 --> 0:04:51.342 offline as much as I can. I know that that 0:04:51.501 --> 0:04:54.022 night I'm going to need to go online and scour 0:04:54.142 --> 0:04:56.502 and check and put some ideas in and just make 0:04:56.501 --> 0:04:59.662 sure nothing terrible has happened. But I can be offline 0:04:59.741 --> 0:05:01.861 for a few hours like it's okay and it doesn't 0:05:01.902 --> 0:05:04.141 freak you out, not at all. Like if something really 0:05:04.181 --> 0:05:07.942 big happens, which often it doesn't, like it will find 0:05:07.981 --> 0:05:10.181 its way to you. I would not been able to 0:05:10.222 --> 0:05:11.941 do this job for as long as I've done it 0:05:12.022 --> 0:05:13.742 if I didn't feel like I could have a few 0:05:13.782 --> 0:05:15.342 hours away from it. Sometimes And I. 0:05:15.381 --> 0:05:17.662 Think, yeah, That's the thing is that they also say 0:05:18.022 --> 0:05:19.262 Sunday nights, I have to go weak. 0:05:19.342 --> 0:05:20.821 You can have an invisible half day. 0:05:21.061 --> 0:05:23.381 So if you feel exhausted at work and you're like, 0:05:23.501 --> 0:05:25.581 you know what, I just need five to eight to 0:05:25.782 --> 0:05:28.342 just disappear for a little while, you can also just 0:05:28.381 --> 0:05:31.301 do that. But in reading about this, I came across 0:05:31.342 --> 0:05:34.821 this concept called the window of tolerance, and it's the 0:05:34.902 --> 0:05:39.061 ideal range of emotional and physiological arousal when a person 0:05:39.061 --> 0:05:41.541 can think clearly. So we all have this window of tolerance, 0:05:41.582 --> 0:05:45.181 and it's used a lot in therapy and psychology around 0:05:45.301 --> 0:05:47.622 trauma because your window of tolerance can be very very 0:05:47.662 --> 0:05:50.981 small and you can become really like hyper aroused, really 0:05:51.022 --> 0:05:55.342 really quickly. Basically, these therapists were saying that the window 0:05:55.381 --> 0:05:57.462 of tolerance has been shrinking for a lot of us 0:05:57.582 --> 0:06:02.861 due to outside stresses, due to not properly resting, And 0:06:02.941 --> 0:06:05.222 it made me think about those periods in your life 0:06:05.262 --> 0:06:07.021 where you feel as though you just don't have a 0:06:07.022 --> 0:06:09.501 lot of bandwidth and you feel as though one time 0:06:09.662 --> 0:06:12.502 anything can set you off because your tolerance is an 0:06:12.582 --> 0:06:17.022 all time low, and how having a day to regulate, 0:06:17.061 --> 0:06:18.981 even a few hours to regulate just means that that 0:06:19.022 --> 0:06:21.541 window is wider so that you're a better used to 0:06:21.582 --> 0:06:22.301 people around you. 0:06:24.462 --> 0:06:26.101 We've been talking a lot lately on the show in 0:06:26.101 --> 0:06:29.421 different ways about how nobody knows how to behave anymore, 0:06:29.902 --> 0:06:32.181 and I feel like we've been telling We've been telling 0:06:32.222 --> 0:06:34.141 people how to behave. We've done a few subtepts about 0:06:34.142 --> 0:06:36.421 modern etiquette, and we've done them from the perspective of 0:06:36.501 --> 0:06:39.941 generations X Y Z, and people love on mom and 0:06:39.981 --> 0:06:43.261 MIA's site and on various people love an etiquette guide 0:06:43.381 --> 0:06:45.782 even now because it's like, can we just agree on 0:06:45.821 --> 0:06:49.021 some basically seems to be the vibe, right. There was 0:06:49.101 --> 0:06:52.301 one that came out last week that was specifically for 0:06:52.421 --> 0:06:56.821 men that I immediately became obsessiing it was from GQ. 0:06:56.981 --> 0:06:59.981 It was called The Gentleman's Guide to Etiquette. Do you 0:07:00.022 --> 0:07:01.861 need me to bring you up to speed quickly about 0:07:01.861 --> 0:07:03.462 what GQ is people, Yes. 0:07:03.662 --> 0:07:06.301 It's like a men's magazine, but not a pony one. No, 0:07:06.421 --> 0:07:09.782 so that GQ, but with less that we can read. 0:07:10.102 --> 0:07:14.901 Yeah, Gentlemen's Quarterly. It is nearly one hundred years Gentlemen's Quarterly. 0:07:15.702 --> 0:07:18.862 So it's called GQ, but it was originally called Gentlemen's 0:07:18.902 --> 0:07:21.422 Quarterly and are like, we haven't been doing our job. 0:07:21.662 --> 0:07:24.742 You men are all over the place. Yeah, and it 0:07:24.782 --> 0:07:27.581 has been around for nearly one hundred years. Well it's 0:07:27.662 --> 0:07:30.302 condo nast so it's like quite high status glossy mag 0:07:30.342 --> 0:07:31.941 back in the day. I mean, no magazines are that, 0:07:32.342 --> 0:07:34.542 you know, thick and glossy and fabulous anymore. But back 0:07:34.542 --> 0:07:36.782 in the day, GQ is a big deal. And being 0:07:36.821 --> 0:07:38.622 the editor of GQ is a big deal. There have 0:07:38.662 --> 0:07:41.182 been lots of famous editors of GQ. And that it's 0:07:41.222 --> 0:07:42.982 published in the UK, it's published in the US as 0:07:42.982 --> 0:07:46.422 an Australian version. The UK one is the coolest. Don't 0:07:46.422 --> 0:07:48.702 have me anyway. I think it's the American one that 0:07:48.821 --> 0:07:51.302 published this etiquette guide. And so if you went to 0:07:51.381 --> 0:07:53.581 GQ now, the kind of things you'd find in There 0:07:53.622 --> 0:07:56.982 would be lots of stuff about watches, you know, like 0:07:57.102 --> 0:08:01.062 cool watches, which celebrities are wearing, the really rare watches. 0:08:01.222 --> 0:08:03.021 How About what protein I should take? 0:08:03.142 --> 0:08:07.141 Definitely protein information, how to buy a hack sep. Yeah, 0:08:07.182 --> 0:08:09.982 And there would be like preppy sneaker guides, and there'd 0:08:10.022 --> 0:08:12.782 be interviews with male movie stars, and there'd be headlines 0:08:12.862 --> 0:08:17.182 like why leftists are suddenly lifting more weights, why you 0:08:17.222 --> 0:08:20.822 should consider a swag gap relationship, and other such things. Right, 0:08:20.862 --> 0:08:24.102 So it's a men's mac. Yeah. So the American one 0:08:24.222 --> 0:08:27.022 has published this big etiquette guide called one hundred and 0:08:27.062 --> 0:08:30.142 twenty five Rules for the Modern Gentleman, and it's like crowdsource. 0:08:30.182 --> 0:08:32.622 They've got a little panel of people, including a woman, 0:08:32.902 --> 0:08:36.102 Aviad Divinet is on there, and they have got their 0:08:36.182 --> 0:08:38.222 rules and manners in place. I want to share a 0:08:38.222 --> 0:08:39.742 few to see what you think, because I don't think 0:08:39.782 --> 0:08:41.182 these are just for men, to be honest, I think 0:08:41.222 --> 0:08:44.062 some of them are, like, yes, please adopt these men. 0:08:44.102 --> 0:08:47.182 But some of them we could all live by. Take 0:08:47.302 --> 0:08:50.542 out your AirPods when you're talking to someone, Muting does 0:08:50.582 --> 0:08:51.182 not count. 0:08:51.582 --> 0:08:53.022 I actually think that's very true. 0:08:53.142 --> 0:08:55.102 I like this one and I sent it to a 0:08:55.102 --> 0:08:57.262 few men in our office because there've been times where've 0:08:57.262 --> 0:08:59.462 approached them and not only have they not taken them out, 0:08:59.462 --> 0:09:00.422 but they've actually put them in. 0:09:02.462 --> 0:09:06.142 That's me, that's me. We should not be able to 0:09:06.222 --> 0:09:10.022 smell you unless we are embracing you. That's about fragrance, 0:09:10.102 --> 0:09:12.302 not body odor, Like how much fragrance you're wearing. 0:09:12.662 --> 0:09:14.582 That's of thumb. 0:09:14.622 --> 0:09:17.022 For all of it. For women, because when you walk 0:09:17.062 --> 0:09:19.142 past someone and you get that blast in your please, 0:09:19.142 --> 0:09:20.742 I like it, though, I go, oh, that's lovely. 0:09:20.822 --> 0:09:24.862 Sometimes it's my dad over does the colony. We'll be 0:09:24.902 --> 0:09:26.822 in like family, like in the car as a family, 0:09:26.822 --> 0:09:27.822 and I'd be like, Dad, i have to put the 0:09:27.822 --> 0:09:29.622 windows down there too much, and he'd be like, that's 0:09:29.662 --> 0:09:31.942 so mean. You always say this about Michael. 0:09:32.702 --> 0:09:35.182 So the rule is if I'm hugging you, I can 0:09:35.222 --> 0:09:35.542 smell it. 0:09:35.582 --> 0:09:39.262 Otherwise, and it has to be like a nice like ooh. 0:09:38.462 --> 0:09:41.542 Yeah, yeah, this is a good one, I think for everybody. 0:09:42.302 --> 0:09:45.182 Never say I've already seen this. When someone sends you 0:09:45.182 --> 0:09:46.262 a funny post. 0:09:47.062 --> 0:09:49.102 Yeah, I do think I'm guilty of that. 0:09:49.222 --> 0:09:50.062 Yes, I'm guilty. 0:09:50.102 --> 0:09:52.702 Also, I want to add something to that because I've 0:09:52.742 --> 0:09:56.302 noticed when I like sharing funny posts with people. I've 0:09:56.342 --> 0:10:00.182 noticed my girlfriends, when they share something with me, it's 0:10:00.222 --> 0:10:02.422 they share it because they think I will find it funny. 0:10:02.782 --> 0:10:05.102 When men share something with me, they share it because 0:10:05.142 --> 0:10:06.302 they find it funny. 0:10:06.422 --> 0:10:08.382 Oh, that's so true. 0:10:08.542 --> 0:10:10.022 You have to cater to the person, and you're sending 0:10:10.062 --> 0:10:12.582 it to interesting. I like this particularly for men, but 0:10:12.622 --> 0:10:15.062 maybe for all of us. Never raise your voice at 0:10:15.102 --> 0:10:18.302 someone unless there's an emergency. I like that. I like 0:10:18.342 --> 0:10:20.862 that a lot. Yeah, no shouting, We're not shouting. I 0:10:20.902 --> 0:10:22.422 want to ask you about some of the dating stuff, 0:10:22.502 --> 0:10:23.902 m but I also want to get to the one 0:10:23.902 --> 0:10:28.542 that I saw some controversial headlines about. They said this, 0:10:29.302 --> 0:10:31.982 greet people, you know, with the single kiss on the 0:10:32.062 --> 0:10:35.302 left cheek, unless you're in a business setting or meeting 0:10:35.342 --> 0:10:37.261 someone for the first time, in which case stick with 0:10:37.302 --> 0:10:40.102 a handshake. If you sent someone going in for a hug, 0:10:40.382 --> 0:10:44.022 embrace it. Now. I saw some people grabbing that and going, 0:10:44.142 --> 0:10:47.502 oh my god. GQ just told all the men to 0:10:47.582 --> 0:10:50.302 kiss all the women, and we don't want you coming 0:10:50.342 --> 0:10:52.662 at us with your kisses. Okay, can I well, how 0:10:52.662 --> 0:10:56.182 do we feel broadly speaking about the single kiss on 0:10:56.222 --> 0:10:56.822 the left cheek? 0:10:56.942 --> 0:10:58.462 Okay? On Friday? 0:10:58.782 --> 0:11:00.342 Last Friday, I had a little bit of work I 0:11:00.382 --> 0:11:02.062 had to do, so I went to a cafe on 0:11:02.062 --> 0:11:03.302 my own to get this work done. 0:11:03.422 --> 0:11:03.902 Glorious. 0:11:04.542 --> 0:11:07.542 To make it even better, there was a date happening 0:11:07.582 --> 0:11:09.102 next to me right and there was a man sitting 0:11:09.142 --> 0:11:11.102 their way to and then the woman showed up and 0:11:11.142 --> 0:11:14.102 he stood and he was clearly nervous. It was delightful. 0:11:14.622 --> 0:11:17.502 He stood up and then he kissed her on one cheek. 0:11:17.902 --> 0:11:20.142 She went to pull away, he went kissed her on 0:11:20.182 --> 0:11:23.502 the other cheek and then he no, but it was awkward, 0:11:23.502 --> 0:11:26.102 and she went oh, and he said it's a bit European. 0:11:26.262 --> 0:11:28.582 And she said are you European? And he said no? 0:11:29.262 --> 0:11:36.142 And who die? This man needed to kiss her once 0:11:36.182 --> 0:11:37.942 on the left cheek, and I thought, this is why 0:11:37.982 --> 0:11:40.502 we write these guides, because we just need a clear rule. 0:11:40.622 --> 0:11:43.662 But what about man, you do know her right like? 0:11:43.702 --> 0:11:45.502 Because this one of the things that greet people you 0:11:45.702 --> 0:11:48.022 know with a single cheek? Should you greet people you 0:11:48.142 --> 0:11:48.622 don't know? 0:11:50.662 --> 0:11:54.182 I think that there is something about shaking the hand 0:11:54.222 --> 0:11:57.422 of a grown man in a situation that isn't professional 0:11:57.422 --> 0:11:59.462 that makes me feel uncomfortable, like what are you meant 0:11:59.462 --> 0:12:02.022 to do? Part of me thinks that actually going in 0:12:02.142 --> 0:12:04.622 for like a hugger and embrace is more intimate. 0:12:04.862 --> 0:12:07.382 No, I think I like the kiss on the especially 0:12:07.902 --> 0:12:10.542 meeting friends and the introduce to people. I think always 0:12:10.622 --> 0:12:13.102 kiss on the cheek. I just want all men to 0:12:13.222 --> 0:12:16.822 do this because I have seen so many men who 0:12:17.062 --> 0:12:19.102 get up to greet a woman and you can see 0:12:19.102 --> 0:12:19.982 the dread in their eyes. 0:12:20.062 --> 0:12:21.742 Yes, they don't know what they don't know what to do. 0:12:21.862 --> 0:12:22.502 They freak out. 0:12:22.622 --> 0:12:25.262 I've had a guy who had his hand crushed between 0:12:25.302 --> 0:12:29.862 a stomach and his stomach. I've like hugged a guy 0:12:29.942 --> 0:12:32.822 and I just had my all my foundation on his shirt. 0:12:33.262 --> 0:12:35.222 I don't want to be doing that. Meet me at 0:12:35.222 --> 0:12:38.422 my level, peck me on the cheek. I need clarity. Right, 0:12:38.742 --> 0:12:41.342 you're meeting someone for the first time. So you're on 0:12:41.382 --> 0:12:44.262 a date, like the people in Jesse's cafe. If you're 0:12:44.302 --> 0:12:46.262 waiting for your date to turn up, and when he 0:12:46.302 --> 0:12:48.342 turns up, are you expecting that he will greet you 0:12:48.382 --> 0:12:50.182 with a kiss on the cheek. Yes, so not just 0:12:50.222 --> 0:12:51.862 say hi, I would find a full snog. 0:12:53.062 --> 0:12:55.382 It's a kiss on the chake. It is absolutely a kiss. 0:12:55.182 --> 0:12:55.942 On the chack. Okayu. 0:12:56.142 --> 0:12:58.062 He would have been talking for about like a week 0:12:58.142 --> 0:13:00.622 or two weeks, and they're like big, Like, I'm chatting 0:13:00.662 --> 0:13:02.862 to a guy right now. We're sending like five messages 0:13:02.942 --> 0:13:04.782 per convo, so. 0:13:04.902 --> 0:13:05.502 We're all growing. 0:13:05.542 --> 0:13:08.102 I know who you are right now. Okay. Because I 0:13:08.262 --> 0:13:11.302 have an unpopular opinion about this, I'm not prudish about it. 0:13:11.342 --> 0:13:13.702 I don't mind it at all, But sometimes like, you know, 0:13:13.742 --> 0:13:16.142 you'll go to a barbecue or something, right and all 0:13:16.222 --> 0:13:18.462 your friend's partners are there, and there's a lot of men, 0:13:18.502 --> 0:13:20.822 there's a lot of women. You can spend ten minutes 0:13:20.862 --> 0:13:23.822 on all the going around kissing everybody like hi, Hi, 0:13:23.942 --> 0:13:25.261 and then you might not talk to them again for 0:13:25.302 --> 0:13:26.982 the rest of the day. And I'm like, do we 0:13:27.022 --> 0:13:28.142 all have to No? 0:13:27.902 --> 0:13:30.582 No, no, I have to kiss but I can't I 0:13:30.742 --> 0:13:33.422 kiss like eighty percent in this was just one guy 0:13:34.342 --> 0:13:35.782 that's that you refuse to kid. 0:13:36.302 --> 0:13:39.302 I know him better, so I'll kiss him, Okay twice, 0:13:39.342 --> 0:13:40.142 I'm not kissing him. 0:13:40.182 --> 0:13:42.142 The image I'm getting is a hollyway and right high 0:13:42.142 --> 0:13:44.102 fiving people. I can't get out of my head is 0:13:44.102 --> 0:13:47.022 hollywalking into a barbecue and just going hi. 0:13:47.062 --> 0:13:47.982 Putting here boys. 0:13:48.862 --> 0:13:52.582 But I think that's about efficiency, and you can see 0:13:52.582 --> 0:13:53.982 sometimes a dread in people's lives. 0:13:54.102 --> 0:13:54.982 When someone walks in. 0:13:54.902 --> 0:13:57.381 They're like, I'm gonna do the kisses, and everybody's like 0:13:57.502 --> 0:13:59.422 getting a line and it's like everyone fucking. 0:13:59.262 --> 0:14:01.302 And they always enough stepping on their feet yep. 0:14:01.382 --> 0:14:03.342 And then you go, oh, now I'm going to go 0:14:03.382 --> 0:14:05.822 and everyone's like no, no, no, no no, and you're like kiss, 0:14:06.102 --> 0:14:07.542 and then you have to do it all again, Like 0:14:07.582 --> 0:14:09.502 that's not fun for anyone. I think you can do 0:14:10.422 --> 0:14:14.742 a great wave just like a Hi guys, Hi, Hi, 0:14:14.982 --> 0:14:15.742 nice to see you all. 0:14:15.902 --> 0:14:17.502 Don't need to do all the don't need to do 0:14:17.542 --> 0:14:18.542 all the individual kissing. 0:14:18.622 --> 0:14:21.622 I would think I've done something wrong. Are there any 0:14:21.622 --> 0:14:24.342 men who shouldn't kiss you? I mean once on the 0:14:24.422 --> 0:14:26.662 left chee? Are there any men like in your work, 0:14:26.862 --> 0:14:29.542 like the people who are upset about this information being 0:14:29.582 --> 0:14:32.302 out there and seeing it as invitations for men to 0:14:32.382 --> 0:14:33.622 just come and kissin. 0:14:33.422 --> 0:14:36.542 Any corporate setting. I think anything even walk into a 0:14:36.542 --> 0:14:41.022 boardroom meeting and any work setting, any situation like that. 0:14:41.462 --> 0:14:43.702 Absolutely not. I think that we've got to be as 0:14:43.782 --> 0:14:47.502 gender neutral in the office as possible. Shaking hands fabulous. 0:14:47.782 --> 0:14:50.542 I just think I think that's fine out in public. 0:14:50.622 --> 0:14:53.462 It's funny because if I see your husband Luca at 0:14:53.462 --> 0:14:56.062 work all the time, high Luca. If I come and 0:14:56.102 --> 0:14:58.702 see Luca in a social setting, kiss Luke on the cheek. 0:14:58.942 --> 0:14:59.422 There you go. 0:15:00.142 --> 0:15:00.782 So that's the rule. 0:15:00.862 --> 0:15:02.782 There was another one that I thought was because this 0:15:02.862 --> 0:15:05.422 comes down to chivalry, right, which I do think is 0:15:05.422 --> 0:15:07.982 an awkward social tension. 0:15:08.502 --> 0:15:11.182 Very at this unpopular. 0:15:10.582 --> 0:15:14.742 Word and an unpopular word, but there is something about 0:15:15.502 --> 0:15:19.382 rules and guidelines and responsibilities that do make people feel safe. 0:15:19.542 --> 0:15:23.742 And how do you explain to young men that, you know, 0:15:23.822 --> 0:15:26.862 if you've got sons one day, they're probably going to 0:15:26.902 --> 0:15:28.742 be stronger than their mum. So how do you explain 0:15:28.782 --> 0:15:32.222 to them that helping the woman next to you on 0:15:32.262 --> 0:15:33.982 the plane to put their carry on up is a 0:15:34.062 --> 0:15:35.142 kind thing to do? 0:15:35.342 --> 0:15:35.502 Right? 0:15:35.702 --> 0:15:37.542 Or That was one of the rules which I thought 0:15:37.542 --> 0:15:39.942 was really good. And the other one was was the rule. 0:15:39.702 --> 0:15:42.182 To always help with the carry out that I really 0:15:42.222 --> 0:15:44.782 like that. I think I fall in love with every 0:15:44.822 --> 0:15:45.742 man who I see do that. 0:15:45.822 --> 0:15:48.142 It's so nice because it's like you're taller and you're 0:15:48.182 --> 0:15:49.422 stronger generally. 0:15:49.102 --> 0:15:50.342 And the shirt lifts up a little bit. 0:15:50.542 --> 0:15:52.582 Yeah, and they go, I've got it, and I'm like. 0:15:52.542 --> 0:15:54.582 Thank you, can you see that? Biceps pitrude? 0:15:54.662 --> 0:15:56.742 The other one, oh, men who help you with the pram? 0:15:56.942 --> 0:16:00.022 Oh my gosh, like I'm with stairs or whatever, And 0:16:00.062 --> 0:16:02.382 a man will often he'll just go, can I give. 0:16:02.302 --> 0:16:03.502 Your hand with that? And just gets it. 0:16:03.622 --> 0:16:04.782 You go, thank you so much. 0:16:05.182 --> 0:16:08.182 But the one that they said which was interesting was 0:16:08.382 --> 0:16:13.222 about holding the door, and it was again gender neutral man, woman, 0:16:13.462 --> 0:16:16.142 as long as it's a reasonable time hold the door 0:16:16.182 --> 0:16:18.062 open for someone. And I was like, interesting, what's a 0:16:18.102 --> 0:16:18.702 reasonable time? 0:16:18.742 --> 0:16:20.902 Though? I think we've discussed this on them Etiquette Gough. 0:16:20.902 --> 0:16:23.142 I think we discussed it in a subscriber episode, and 0:16:23.182 --> 0:16:27.822 I think somewhere between five and ten seconds, Okay, I think. 0:16:27.622 --> 0:16:30.902 I think the reason why chivalry has become tricky is 0:16:30.902 --> 0:16:33.662 because people love to weaponize chivalry. Right, Like you will 0:16:33.702 --> 0:16:36.582 hear men say things like, oh, you can't even hold 0:16:36.582 --> 0:16:38.822 a door open for a woman anymore, And I'm like, 0:16:39.822 --> 0:16:42.582 I have never complained about having a door held open 0:16:42.582 --> 0:16:45.262 for me, But I have complained, or at least certainly 0:16:45.262 --> 0:16:48.622 internally complained about sexist comments, the way that you looked 0:16:48.622 --> 0:16:50.342 at my boobs instead of my face, all of those 0:16:50.382 --> 0:16:53.982 kind of things. Like women understand, we intrinsically understand when 0:16:53.982 --> 0:16:55.862 people are treating you with respect or when people are 0:16:55.902 --> 0:16:59.022 treating you with disdain. And very few women that I 0:16:59.062 --> 0:17:01.582 have ever met would complain about anyone holding a door 0:17:01.622 --> 0:17:02.062 open for that. 0:17:02.222 --> 0:17:04.341 I've complained about going out to dinner with a man 0:17:04.382 --> 0:17:07.821 who insists on paying, but then subtly uses that later 0:17:08.422 --> 0:17:11.142 to trick you into having them Yeah, it's like I 0:17:11.142 --> 0:17:14.741 can see that transaction being used, but you're not allowed 0:17:14.742 --> 0:17:16.421 to insist on paying for my dinner and then expect 0:17:16.422 --> 0:17:17.101 anything in return. 0:17:17.182 --> 0:17:18.941 That's exactly right. That's the other thing is that who 0:17:19.381 --> 0:17:21.341 men should we have to pay for dinner? So you 0:17:21.462 --> 0:17:23.101