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Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.

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Speaker 2: Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters

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Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on. She says, what are

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Speaker 2: you doing on social media? Dress like that?

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Speaker 3: Oh ah, how are you dressed?

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Speaker 2: I was in my gardening. She I was like, in

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Speaker 2: a pair of shitty old leggings and birkenstocks and a

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Speaker 2: really ugly hat and an apron. But I was talking

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Speaker 2: about my gardening. And she was just like, no, this

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Speaker 2: isn't what we're doing on social media.

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Speaker 1: You say, Penny, I'm a relatable queen. I was like,

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Speaker 1: it's my brand relatable queen.

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Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome to Mamma Mia out loud and to

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Speaker 2: our Friday show where you won't hear anything about the

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Speaker 2: news cycle because yuck, it sucks.

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Speaker 1: It does.

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Speaker 2: Just noticed that Jesse and I are wearing the same shit.

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Speaker 2: We are. Yeah, we'd very interesting to you if you're

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Speaker 2: listening to this. Sorry, sorry, out louders. Today on track

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Speaker 2: is the twenty first of March, and I'm Hollywayen Right,

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Speaker 2: I'm mea Friedman.

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Speaker 3: And I'm Jesse Stevens.

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Speaker 2: And on today's show, Mindy Kaling has just said she

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Speaker 2: decided to become a solo mum because she didn't want

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Speaker 2: to have to compromise on money, on work, on parenting choices.

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Speaker 2: And she's just one of the high profile women publicly

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Speaker 2: reimagining marriage, family and fidelity. Also the only TV show

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Speaker 2: anyone's talking about this week, and it's not The White

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Speaker 2: Lotus jelly Beans Versus Brussels Sprouts and MEA's latest self

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Speaker 2: soothing video trend. Yes, it's our recommendations and our best

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Speaker 2: and worst of the week include Falls, Performance, Anxiety, and

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Speaker 2: a Friend's Tough Love. But first, Jesse Stevens, in case

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Speaker 2: you missed.

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Speaker 3: It, we would like to introduce you to some modern

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Speaker 3: day curses. If there's one thing the world needs more of,

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Speaker 3: it's some witchy style curses. But the best curses are

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Speaker 3: specific and they wish harm, although not irreparable harm, upon

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Speaker 3: one's enemy. My grand used to write people's names on

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Speaker 3: a piece of paper put it in the freezer.

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Speaker 2: I still do that, do you do not? Sometimes I

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Speaker 2: just get this very cold, creeping, cold sensation.

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Speaker 1: How do you do it? Often? I only it's in

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Speaker 1: my bag of tricks that I use when really necessary.

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Speaker 1: But it's quite psychologically good because usually when you're really

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Speaker 1: thinking about someone that you obsessively hate. It takes a

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Speaker 1: lot of energy from you. Yes, So I like the

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Speaker 1: symbolism of I want to freeze my feelings towards them.

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Speaker 1: I want to freeze the impact they have.

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Speaker 3: On you, go through your freezer. So, guys, I'm terrified

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Speaker 3: because our boss of out Loud has just been waving

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Speaker 3: her arm, going I do this the morning from hell,

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Speaker 3: and I think it's her fault. What have I done

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Speaker 3: across her?

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Speaker 2: It's true, she's hext.

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Speaker 3: She has hext me and my grand Once she put

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Speaker 3: someone's name in it and they got really sick, and

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Speaker 3: then she stopped doing it because she believed waving.

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Speaker 1: I just wish that they stop harming me. I don't

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Speaker 1: wish that they Actually, you don't wish Ill.

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Speaker 3: Not particularly, look sometimes you do wish Ill and Gemma Coral.

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Speaker 3: If you don't follow her on Instagram already you should.

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Speaker 3: She does hilarious comics about anxiety, highly relatable, and she

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Speaker 3: recently shared a series of modern day curses that she

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Speaker 3: put together a few years ago that are still very irrelevant.

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Speaker 3: Would you like to hear some desperately?

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Speaker 2: Yes?

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Speaker 1: All right?

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Speaker 3: May your videos buffer for ten thousand years? May your

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Speaker 3: coffee always be decaf. May there eternally be an unexpected

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Speaker 3: item in your bagging area. Yes, I've definitely been cur

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Speaker 3: May your epita so like your tombstone. May that font

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Speaker 3: be comic sands. Because your death will never be taken.

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Speaker 3: You'll always look a little bit.

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Speaker 2: Like honor in law who's choosing that for you? And

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Speaker 2: imagine that she always loved comics. It's joke.

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Speaker 1: May not nobody help you find a tampon when you

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Speaker 1: really really need one.

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Speaker 3: I've had this situation.

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Speaker 1: May you always be the one at the group dinner

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Speaker 1: who isn't drinking and has to pay an equal share

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Speaker 1: of the bill nonetheless.

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Speaker 3: On the tampon, I asked my I'm going to call her,

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Speaker 3: my sister in law. I said to her, can I

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Speaker 3: borrow a tampon recently? And she said, this is a

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Speaker 3: modern day curse. I've got one, but they may be

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Speaker 3: too small for you to day one of the sickest burns.

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Speaker 3: It might just fall fall out because of your vagina.

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Speaker 3: And I was like, I think I'll be fine. Thanks.

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Speaker 1: May your phone battery die right before you press send

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Speaker 1: on a very long and brilliant text message. Yeah love

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Speaker 1: it May you bleed through your clothes and onto the

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Speaker 1: chair in an important work meeting when you're wearing a

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Speaker 1: light colored skirt.

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Speaker 3: I've done that in this very chair you have.

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Speaker 1: Oh I've got another one. May you never be able

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Speaker 1: to find a pair of jeans that really suit you. Oh,

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Speaker 1: that's the perennial curse. And finally, May your vibrator run

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Speaker 1: out of charge right before you arrive.

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Speaker 2: Most annoying.

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Speaker 3: Okay, I have a few. May all your accounts be

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Speaker 3: linked to an email address you no longer have access to.

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Speaker 2: Oh my god, that has happened to me so many times.

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Speaker 2: I just make This is making me realize that I

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Speaker 2: have been.

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Speaker 3: I think I reckon that Ruth has you in the

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Speaker 3: in the freezer? Allegh does I'm looking at her? May

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Speaker 3: your passport photo be unspeakably upside Yeah, well I've already

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Speaker 3: got that. May your favorite influencer be radicalized by the deepha.

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Speaker 1: Oh that's so annoying when that happens.

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Speaker 3: May you be kicked out of the latest White Lotus

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Speaker 3: episode three quarters of the way through because too many

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Speaker 3: people are using this account. And may you also be

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Speaker 3: the person who pays for the account that has happened.

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Speaker 2: To you you know my story.

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Speaker 3: May your phone have very poor battery life, because that's

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Speaker 3: where I'm at three pm dead.

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Speaker 2: May your AirPods always be in your other.

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Speaker 3: Bag, yeah, and then when you find them dead.

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Speaker 2: May every supermarket trolley require a coin.

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Speaker 1: Oh, I can't tell you who has a coin? What

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Speaker 1: even is a coin? I know?

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Speaker 2: May you never have the right charger, yeah, always happens.

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Speaker 2: And may your keep cup always just be that tiny

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Speaker 2: bit dirty when you pull it out to hand it

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Speaker 2: to the barista. Tell us yours out loud, as we

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Speaker 2: know that you are mean and crawls. Your curses will

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Speaker 2: be way best.

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Speaker 1: For generations. The narrative went a bit like this girl

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Speaker 1: falls in love with boy, gets married, has children in

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Speaker 1: that order. But in twenty twenty five, people who want

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Speaker 1: kids are creating families on their own terms. Like Collie.

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Speaker 1: She's not married because nobody wants to put a ring

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Speaker 1: on it, and yet she has two children and a

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Speaker 1: long term boyfriend. For those who do want kids, reproductive

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Speaker 1: technology and the relaxation of social mores have turned having

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Speaker 1: a family into a bit but choose your own adventure.

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Speaker 1: I think we can all agree, but not everybody is

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Speaker 1: happy about that, which we will get to because these

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Speaker 1: days there are options. Women are using sperm banks to

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Speaker 1: become single mothers, same sex couples are using donors and

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Speaker 1: surrogates to have children, and there are thrupples raising kids

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Speaker 1: and polyamorous parents. Interviewed a few of those, And of

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Speaker 1: course this is on top of blended families. I grew

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Speaker 1: up in one of those when it was pretty rare,

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Speaker 1: but now it's very bog standard common. But the point

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Speaker 1: is that there's no longer a set way to be

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Speaker 1: a mother if you want to be. And this week

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Speaker 1: Mindy Kayling, who we last saw sitting under a balloon

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Speaker 1: arch with Megan Markle at the World's Saddest Children's party

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Speaker 1: without many children. She has spoken about the family that

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Speaker 1: she's made on the Daks Shepherd podcast. She is a writer,

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Speaker 1: producer and actor. Of course she's chosen to be a

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Speaker 1: single mom. She's got three little kids who are seven, four,

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Speaker 1: and one, and she's kept them totally out of the

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Speaker 1: public eye, even during her pregnan seats, which is pretty

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Speaker 1: unusual in Hollywood. We spoke earlier in the week about

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Speaker 1: secret pregnanc seats. She kind of did that. She just

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Speaker 1: sort of announced that she had the children, and she's

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Speaker 1: never said who their biological father is. Here's what she

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Speaker 1: said on Dax's podcast, where she spoke about why she

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Speaker 1: chose to have kids on her own.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, I felt when I was a kid,

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Speaker 4: I'm definitely getting married because I love romantic love and

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Speaker 4: I love men and romance, and I'm definitely going to

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Speaker 4: have children. And then when I got into my twenties

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Speaker 4: and I had a couple pretty unfulfilling relationships, and then

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Speaker 4: I was I was in my thirties, I was like,

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Speaker 4: I don't know. I knew that I wanted children, but

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Speaker 4: I was old enough at that point and had enough

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Speaker 4: sort of disposable income and had seen so many acrimonious divorces.

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Speaker 4: I hope this doesn't sound bad, and this is not

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Speaker 4: going to be relatable to a lot of listeners, But

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Speaker 4: a person would have built up their career and their

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Speaker 4: nest egg and then they have a divorce in half

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Speaker 4: of their money.

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Speaker 3: So I know that.

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Speaker 4: Should happen in most cases in California laws of reason

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Speaker 4: to protect families, and I get it, but I was like, damn,

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Speaker 4: I don't want that exactly, not that it's all about

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Speaker 4: the money and so this romantic part of me that

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Speaker 4: was like, you're gonna find your Darcy was like.

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Speaker 2: Well what if Darcy chicks all my body.

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Speaker 4: And then takes off my money? And then I have

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Speaker 4: these fantasies because I'm insane, where I'm like, it's going

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Speaker 4: to take half my money and his bitch wife they'll

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Speaker 4: get a fucking fifth Avenue apartment.

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Speaker 5: You didn't let yourself buy.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and then my office residuals from playing Kelly. They're

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Speaker 4: going to be sending their kids to Dalton in the

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Speaker 4: Upper West Side or whatever while I'm child But because

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Speaker 4: I have revenge fantasies, not healthy at all. I was like,

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Speaker 4: I don't want my money to go to this hypothetical

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Speaker 4: X and his new family. I also was like, I

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Speaker 4: want to have Christmas and Thanksgiving with my children every

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Speaker 4: year because I'm a writer and also insane, these fantasies

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Speaker 4: where I'm like, so I would be then alone where

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Speaker 4: my children were going to this other person's house.

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Speaker 2: She basically went on to say that she didn't want

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Speaker 2: to compromise, so there was the fear of divorce. But

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Speaker 2: then also she's saying I didn't really want to compromise.

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Speaker 2: I love my work. I loved my job. I've decided

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Speaker 2: I had space for work and children, and that was that.

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Speaker 2: And I don't want to waste my time picking out

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Speaker 2: a sweater for my imaginary sister in law, etc.

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Speaker 1: It was a pretty bleak view. And it's interesting because

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Speaker 1: she said her parents had a great marriage, but she

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Speaker 1: saw the idea of a co parent as being very

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Speaker 1: much liability.

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Speaker 2: I found it very refreshing because you don't hear women

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Speaker 2: talking like that. I was driving my car when I

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Speaker 2: heard her, when I was listening to that, and I

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Speaker 2: wanted to pull over and make a note because I've

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Speaker 2: got no memory, because I was like, hearing a woman

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Speaker 2: talk so honestly about money. Yeah, and not wanting to

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Speaker 2: compromise and not wanting to care for someone else is

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Speaker 2: just something that women don't say loud.

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Speaker 3: I have a few friends who have decided to have

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Speaker 3: babies on their own, and there are elements of that

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Speaker 3: I've heard, because if you're in your mid thirties, then

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Speaker 3: you've likely had a few relationships that haven't worked and

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Speaker 3: they've gone. None of those men were fit to raise

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Speaker 3: children with me. I'm so glad that I didn't have

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Speaker 3: children with those men. And I think sometimes they're looking

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Speaker 3: around at friends or circumstances. I know someone who recently

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Speaker 3: had a baby and it maybe six months. The husband

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Speaker 3: walked out and she ended up doing it on her own.

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Speaker 3: Single mothers raising children have always existed. Oh, it's just

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Speaker 3: that now it can be a choice.

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Speaker 2: But also what I hadn't heard before is the talking

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Speaker 2: about the financial component, right, because that is unrelatable. As

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Speaker 2: Mindy says herself, she's like she was in a position

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Speaker 2: where she's like, I've got a fortune. I want to

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Speaker 2: protect it. Now normally that's what you hear men say,

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Speaker 2: and she's like, I want to protect my fortune, but

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Speaker 2: also my fortune has afforded me choice.

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Speaker 1: I think exercise the fortune is the key here because

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Speaker 1: I think and I also know women who've chosen to

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Speaker 1: have children without a father involved via a sperm donation.

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Speaker 1: And it's tough. It's really tough when you are the

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Speaker 1: only parent, because not only do you miss out on

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Speaker 1: having a co parent, you miss out on having the

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Speaker 1: family of the co parent. Now that's not always a

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Speaker 1: good thing, but there is certainly some safety nets and

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Speaker 1: some more people involved in your child's life that you

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Speaker 1: become the single point of failure.

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Speaker 2: That's true, but that also assumes that those things are

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Speaker 2: always good, you know, as you just said, it's not

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Speaker 2: like so. I think that people do what they do

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Speaker 2: and money is a massive factor in this and choices.

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Speaker 2: But saying oh, but you don't get the support assumes

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Speaker 2: that everyone who's married or partnered or whatever has the

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Speaker 2: support of their life. Not always true, lives near them

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Speaker 2: there around.

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Speaker 3: There's a lot of married women who are raising children.

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Speaker 2: On their own.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I get that. My point is that sometimes you

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Speaker 1: might think, I don't want to have to compromise with

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Speaker 1: just a partner. There's a lot else that you don't have.

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Speaker 1: My own point is that it's many hands make light work.

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Speaker 3: Yes, yes, And I think criticizing I think what's interesting

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Speaker 3: and we're going to kind of get into this more

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Speaker 3: is romanticizing different visions of families, right, because there's imperfections

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Speaker 3: and constraints in really any way that you put together

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Speaker 3: a family. And Miranda July who wrote All Fours, which

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Speaker 3: we loved, one of our favorite books from last year.

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Speaker 3: It was a book about a woman who was I suppose,

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Speaker 3: trying to throw off some of the shackles of motherhood

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Speaker 3: and long term monogamy. And she has this newsletter and

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Speaker 3: has been sort of compiling examples of non traditional marriages

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Speaker 3: as she calls them, and she has people writing, yeah, because.

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Speaker 1: She left, what was her story again? Just remind me

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Speaker 1: because I know the book, but she it mirrored her

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Speaker 1: life a little bit because she was married to a man,

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Speaker 1: had a child.

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Speaker 3: I think they might have opened up their relationship.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. The plot in All Fours, if you haven't read it,

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Speaker 2: it's not a linear divorce plot, and nor is what

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Speaker 2: she's exploring it through her newsletter is it's this idea

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Speaker 2: of different models of family. So she didn't leave. She stayed,

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Speaker 2: but they opened up their relationship and she started exploring

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Speaker 2: relationships with women which she'd had in the past. And

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Speaker 2: he got a girlfriend, but they stayed a family unit

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Speaker 2: for a period of time and then that changed. And

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Speaker 2: what she does through her sub stack is she encourages

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Speaker 2: other people living in non traditional families to share their stories.

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Speaker 2: And they're really varied.

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Speaker 3: They're really really varied. So one example is ethical non monogamy.

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Speaker 3: For example, there's a woman who writes in and she's queer.

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Speaker 3: She's in a long term relationship with a man, but

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Speaker 3: she explores that other part of herself while still being married.

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Speaker 3: There's also something called polysolo, which I hadn't heard, and

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Speaker 3: that is when a few of the women write about

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Speaker 3: the man therewith having affairs and they don't mind. They're

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Speaker 3: not in a sexual era and they just go, I'm

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Speaker 3: happy to be on my own and you do what

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Speaker 3: you need to do. Spousal caregiver this was another one.

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Speaker 3: So there was one who wrote in about her husband's illness.

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Speaker 3: So this seems to be not entirely uncommon when you're

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Speaker 3: in a relationship and maybe that relationship is fractured or

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Speaker 3: you're thinking about ending it and life throws you a

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Speaker 3: really serious diagnosis. And the amount of women who stay

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Speaker 3: with them because they know that when you are nearing

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Speaker 3: the end of your life, you need people. There were

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Speaker 3: others that were in the midst of a breakup when

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Speaker 3: the la fires happened, and so that emergency meant that

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Speaker 3: there was almost like a trauma bond, like they had

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Speaker 3: to stay together. Another example was nesting or living a

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Speaker 3: part together. And this is also about finances and like

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Speaker 3: how couples do that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I knew of they not together, but they just

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Speaker 1: take it in turns.

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Speaker 3: Some stay living together, or they stay living couple. Yeah, right,

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Speaker 3: So in fact it was a childhood wrote in and said,

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Speaker 3: growing up, my parents were split, but they were amicable,

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Speaker 3: and they lived in the same house. One was upstairs,

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Speaker 3: one was downstairs. They even had other relationships. Someone would

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Speaker 3: come in, someone would leave, but they lived in the

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Speaker 3: same house. And what I found reading about I thought,

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Speaker 3: chances are that these sorts of arrangements have existed for

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Speaker 3: a lot longer one hundred percent. Then I think they've

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Speaker 3: always been around. But they've always been around. Now we

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Speaker 3: can give them cute little names. Yep.

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Speaker 2: And also now in some circles at least you can

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Speaker 2: talk about it, because I think you're one hundred percent right.

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Speaker 2: There have always been couples who can't afford to separate

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Speaker 2: but stay living together until the kids leave home. There

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Speaker 2: have always been couples who choose not to live together

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Speaker 2: but stay in a relationship. Because that's another thing. Here

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Speaker 2: is like long distance, or we're dating, but we have

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Speaker 2: separate houses, or we're committed, but we have separate houses.

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Speaker 2: There have always been women or men who will turn

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Speaker 2: the blind eye or actively engage in the idea that

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Speaker 2: their partner's having sex with someone else, because their familial

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Speaker 2: bond is the most important, and that they are entirely

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Speaker 2: bonded together through sickness and health and all of the

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Speaker 2: things that go along with having a family. But they're

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Speaker 2: not romantically in love anymore. All of that I think

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Speaker 2: has always existed, but now it feels like we're allowed

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Speaker 2: to maybe whisper it a little bit louder.

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Speaker 3: Unsurprisingly, this has given way to somewhat of a moral panic.

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Speaker 3: So it's there are some people looking at this going

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Speaker 3: are we presenting women with an unrealistic fantasy of novelty,

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Speaker 3: of life being about sort of multiple sexual partners, as

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Speaker 3: though that doesn't come with its own issues. Freddi de Boa,

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Speaker 3: who we've talked about on this show before, wrote a

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Speaker 3: newsletter about Miranda July and he basically argued that this

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Speaker 3: fantasy version that Miranda July is selling people doesn't actually

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Speaker 3: exist for anyone. And he said that in twenty twenty five,

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Speaker 3: what the media sells is permission, and that's what women

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Speaker 3: are looking for. Permission.

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Speaker 1: What does that mean and how does it not exist?

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Speaker 1: Because women are literally describing their families and they're unconventional.

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Speaker 3: But what his theory is is that the people subscribing

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Speaker 3: to this newsletter and reading it are in traditional marriages

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Speaker 3: looking for permission to leave, to change that, to evolve

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Speaker 3: that marriage. I would say, what's wrong with that? He's

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Speaker 3: basically suggesting this is contagious and if you think that

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Speaker 3: your life is going to be easier when you leave,

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Speaker 3: it's not. And you're chasing this fantasy that doesn't exist.

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Speaker 3: That's the thing about fancy.

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Speaker 1: That's very patronized.

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Speaker 2: I would argue that the fantasy is actually the other

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Speaker 2: way around. I think that I agree. What this is

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Speaker 2: is giving a whispered voice in some very small corners

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Speaker 2: that the fantasy that we've all been sold since the

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Speaker 2: day we first put a little bridal veil on or

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Speaker 2: a baby doll, that you will meet someone, you will

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Speaker 2: fall madly in love. We will follow this timeline. You

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Speaker 2: will stay together forever. You will always be obsessed with them,

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Speaker 2: you will always want to have lots of sex with them.

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Speaker 2: They will always treat you really well, and you will

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Speaker 2: always treat them really well, and you'll always feel fulfilled.

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Speaker 2: That is a fantasy we have had shoved down our

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Speaker 2: throats forever. Yeah, that's the fantasy because most, well not most,

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Speaker 2: but a lot of relationships not that neat, not to

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Speaker 2: say they're not good or they're not fulfilling, or they're

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Speaker 2: not exciting, or they're not but they're not that neat.

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Speaker 2: This is speaking more to the messy reality. But it

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Speaker 2: unnerves people because it's like, oh, so we're not pretending anymore,

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Speaker 2: we're not just going along with Like I know he

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Speaker 2: sleeps with other people, but no one could ever find

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Speaker 2: that out because it would be so humiliating for me.

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Speaker 2: This is more of women saying like, maybe that's what

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Speaker 2: we have to do to stay together, and maybe it's

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Speaker 2: not humiliating for me.

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Speaker 1: What's interesting to me is to explore whether, and of

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Speaker 1: course it's different for every person, whether people are doing

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Speaker 1: this for themselves or for their kids, or it's a

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Speaker 1: combination of both. By that, I mean whether they're finding

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Speaker 1: ways to give their children a sort of a family experience,

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Speaker 1: and maybe it is staying with the father or the

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Speaker 1: co parent of that child and that it's good for

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Speaker 1: the children, or whether it's I just need to live

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Speaker 1: my life beyond my identity is just a parent and

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Speaker 1: I'm not fulfilled and that's the most important thing. And

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Speaker 1: I'm sure it's a bit of both.

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Speaker 3: It is, and I think with Deboa, and I find

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Speaker 3: that he's writing interesting. I found this to suggest that

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Speaker 3: the contagion exists within women. Leaving is almost comical because

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Speaker 3: the contagion is staying, Like I think that that's where

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Speaker 3: people feel the pressure most of all. And happy women

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Speaker 3: are not leaving the marriages.

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Speaker 1: Spoken like a man who's worried that his wife's going.

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Speaker 3: To get Yeah, I did. Happy happy women are not

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Speaker 3: reading a newsletter and going all lots of sex and

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Speaker 3: leaving my children. That is not how women's minds work.

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Speaker 3: Like I think that if you've been in a marriage

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Speaker 3: for a lot of years and you're going, I'm not happy,

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Speaker 3: then exploring what other options look like can feel empowering.

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Speaker 3: And in one of mirandogialized emails, she kind of had

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Speaker 3: things to consider before blowing up your life because she says,

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Speaker 3: you can blow up your life or maybe you're not

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Speaker 3: ready to do that, like, maybe here are some things

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Speaker 3: to consider. And she has this line, which is keep

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Speaker 3: an eye on death and who you want to be

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Speaker 3: as you near it. And this suggested to me, is

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Speaker 3: there something about the kind of later in life shift

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Speaker 3: in marriages and in relationships where people looking around and going,

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Speaker 3: this isn't how I want.

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Speaker 2: To spend the last one hundred percent trough. I interviewed

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Speaker 2: a woman on mid for an episode we did called

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Speaker 2: who Cares Who You Sleep With? This woman had been married,

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Speaker 2: she was forty, she'd been married for a while, and

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Speaker 2: in her early forties she had a child. She came

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Speaker 2: out as bisexual, and the people around her were all like,

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Speaker 2: why would you do that? Like why would you tell people?

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Speaker 2: Why would you feel a need to come out as bisexual?

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Speaker 2: Like ick, like, who cares about you? What does it

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Speaker 2: matter what you want? Like just if you want to

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Speaker 2: do that, just do that, but don't like tell people.

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Speaker 2: And she was like, well, who cares? I care? You know,

432
00:22:00,302 --> 00:22:03,341
Speaker 2: She's like, don't I get to be me? Like when

433
00:22:03,381 --> 00:22:06,462
Speaker 2: I agreed to get married and have a child, did

434
00:22:06,502 --> 00:22:09,222
Speaker 2: I also agree? And some people would say absolutely yes.

435
00:22:09,621 --> 00:22:13,421
Speaker 2: Your point before about self expression that all my needs

436
00:22:13,462 --> 00:22:16,742
Speaker 2: and who I really am is then frozen in time

437
00:22:17,101 --> 00:22:20,582
Speaker 2: and also is a shameful secret or am I allowed

438
00:22:20,581 --> 00:22:23,861
Speaker 2: to evolve and change? And she said in the same

439
00:22:23,901 --> 00:22:27,862
Speaker 2: way that people might say to a teen who is

440
00:22:28,061 --> 00:22:31,022
Speaker 2: talking about their sexuality, Oh, it's a phase, she said.

441
00:22:31,061 --> 00:22:32,982
Speaker 2: Everyone said to her, it's a midlife crisis.

442
00:22:33,182 --> 00:22:33,422
Speaker 3: Ooh.

443
00:22:34,341 --> 00:22:38,341
Speaker 2: And it's really interesting ways that we dismiss people's feelings

444
00:22:38,381 --> 00:22:41,022
Speaker 2: and say you'll get over that. And she was like,

445
00:22:41,101 --> 00:22:43,141
Speaker 2: but I don't want to live the rest of my

446
00:22:43,222 --> 00:22:45,181
Speaker 2: life pretending to be someone.

447
00:22:44,901 --> 00:22:48,302
Speaker 1: I'm not true, because women have always been not just

448
00:22:48,502 --> 00:22:52,061
Speaker 1: encouraged but expected to subjugate our own identities and our

449
00:22:52,061 --> 00:22:54,741
Speaker 1: own desires and be mother first.

450
00:22:54,861 --> 00:22:56,662
Speaker 2: And there's a part of that that's a cential right.

451
00:22:56,942 --> 00:23:00,502
Speaker 1: But it's interesting. I interviewed Rowan Mangan on No Filter

452
00:23:00,821 --> 00:23:03,581
Speaker 1: a number of years ago, and she was part of

453
00:23:03,621 --> 00:23:08,142
Speaker 1: a throuple and she fell in love with these two

454
00:23:08,182 --> 00:23:10,381
Speaker 1: women who had been married for a really long time,

455
00:23:10,821 --> 00:23:16,581
Speaker 1: Martha Beck and her wife Karen, and they had adult children,

456
00:23:16,702 --> 00:23:20,702
Speaker 1: and Rowan was sort of a generation younger, and the

457
00:23:20,702 --> 00:23:24,821
Speaker 1: three of them entered into a committed relationship, and Rowan

458
00:23:24,861 --> 00:23:27,981
Speaker 1: wanted to have a baby, and she had this baby,

459
00:23:27,982 --> 00:23:31,422
Speaker 1: and she spoke a lot about we don't know how

460
00:23:31,462 --> 00:23:35,262
Speaker 1: anyone does it with less than three wives, Like we

461
00:23:35,302 --> 00:23:38,381
Speaker 1: often say to each other, God, it just I'm at

462
00:23:38,422 --> 00:23:41,302
Speaker 1: work and the child's sick at daycare, and one person

463
00:23:41,341 --> 00:23:43,262
Speaker 1: picks up the child and the other person's doing something

464
00:23:43,302 --> 00:23:46,621
Speaker 1: and she talks about this, it does sound pretty utopian,

465
00:23:46,821 --> 00:23:50,581
Speaker 1: to be honest, and I love this idea of you know,

466
00:23:50,821 --> 00:23:52,422
Speaker 1: you can't be what you can't see, and I love

467
00:23:52,502 --> 00:23:55,101
Speaker 1: that there are so many more models, But I also

468
00:23:55,262 --> 00:23:58,581
Speaker 1: think that just like you can't be what you can't see,

469
00:23:59,821 --> 00:24:02,302
Speaker 1: I think you don't know what parenting is going to

470
00:24:02,302 --> 00:24:04,421
Speaker 1: be like until you become one. And I think that

471
00:24:04,502 --> 00:24:07,181
Speaker 1: while on paper it can look great in terms of

472
00:24:07,182 --> 00:24:09,302
Speaker 1: I don't have to compromise, I don't share my money,

473
00:24:10,222 --> 00:24:12,422
Speaker 1: but it can be harder than it looks. And I'm

474
00:24:12,462 --> 00:24:15,542
Speaker 1: not saying that in any condescending way. I know that

475
00:24:15,581 --> 00:24:17,222
Speaker 1: from single mothers that say that.

476
00:24:17,381 --> 00:24:20,742
Speaker 3: To be wary of being too flippant about the single

477
00:24:21,141 --> 00:24:25,101
Speaker 3: mother transition, like Missy Higgins has spoken about, you know,

478
00:24:25,182 --> 00:24:28,101
Speaker 3: I'm no longer with my children's dad, and this is

479
00:24:28,141 --> 00:24:30,022
Speaker 3: not where I want to be. This is really really hard,

480
00:24:30,621 --> 00:24:32,981
Speaker 3: and I think that there would be a lot of

481
00:24:33,022 --> 00:24:36,262
Speaker 3: single mothers who maybe see some of these stories or

482
00:24:36,901 --> 00:24:40,101
Speaker 3: listen to some women who might have more resources than

483
00:24:40,141 --> 00:24:42,821
Speaker 3: they do and think this isn't a fantasy. This is

484
00:24:42,861 --> 00:24:45,302
Speaker 3: really really hard. I don't have support, I don't have.

485
00:24:45,341 --> 00:24:50,502
Speaker 2: Respite, renting family home on your own in anything close

486
00:24:50,542 --> 00:24:54,022
Speaker 2: to a city is almost impossible. But then, on the

487
00:24:54,061 --> 00:24:56,542
Speaker 2: other hand of that, it's always been the case that

488
00:24:56,621 --> 00:24:59,302
Speaker 2: finances play a large part in why couple stay together,

489
00:24:59,942 --> 00:25:03,261
Speaker 2: and so saying all of those things out loud is

490
00:25:03,302 --> 00:25:07,101
Speaker 2: interesting out loud. As in a moment, Jesse has shotgunned

491
00:25:07,101 --> 00:25:09,302
Speaker 2: what might be the best reco of the year so far.

492
00:25:09,861 --> 00:25:10,702
Speaker 2: We'll be back.

493
00:25:14,422 --> 00:25:16,341
Speaker 3: Out louders. We've got to listen to dilemma and we

494
00:25:16,422 --> 00:25:19,222
Speaker 3: need your collective wisdom to help us in our partners

495
00:25:19,422 --> 00:25:22,821
Speaker 3: UI solve it. Okay, So here's the problem. You send

496
00:25:22,861 --> 00:25:25,901
Speaker 3: a particularly spicy message meant for your partner to the

497
00:25:25,942 --> 00:25:29,262
Speaker 3: family WhatsApp group. This happens. The whole thing happens a lot,

498
00:25:29,341 --> 00:25:33,662
Speaker 3: doesn't it, which includes your in laws and teenage We've

499
00:25:33,702 --> 00:25:36,982
Speaker 3: all been there, have we have? We getting a little

500
00:25:36,982 --> 00:25:39,101
Speaker 3: bit into it, get a little bit sexy, and that

501
00:25:39,222 --> 00:25:46,222
Speaker 3: you I send my oh blimey to Maya.

502
00:25:46,061 --> 00:25:53,981
Speaker 1: Yes, I'm arriving, lu I'm arriving, post taste.

503
00:25:55,661 --> 00:25:59,101
Speaker 3: The question is what do you do next, Maya? Your

504
00:25:59,101 --> 00:26:00,102
Speaker 3: thoughts please.

505
00:26:00,182 --> 00:26:03,861
Speaker 1: Well, obviously you jump in and delay yes immediately, and

506
00:26:03,901 --> 00:26:06,742
Speaker 1: then there's no evidence that it happened, because probably people

507
00:26:06,782 --> 00:26:10,222
Speaker 1: won't screenshot it because they will be utterly horrified.

508
00:26:11,462 --> 00:26:11,901
Speaker 2: Can you just.

509
00:26:13,982 --> 00:26:16,181
Speaker 1: Group and then you have to just throw your phone

510
00:26:16,182 --> 00:26:18,982
Speaker 1: in the fire. Then you have to move to another country.

511
00:26:19,222 --> 00:26:20,302
Speaker 1: That's what I would.

512
00:26:20,022 --> 00:26:21,182
Speaker 3: Do, Holly, what do you think?

513
00:26:21,782 --> 00:26:24,621
Speaker 2: Well, the thing is is obviously jump straight in and deleted.

514
00:26:24,661 --> 00:26:28,221
Speaker 2: But there is nothing more tantalizing than this message was

515
00:26:28,222 --> 00:26:29,861
Speaker 2: deleted in a group right.

516
00:26:30,061 --> 00:26:30,901
Speaker 1: That is the.

517
00:26:30,742 --> 00:26:32,382
Speaker 2: Beginning of every good story.

518
00:26:32,901 --> 00:26:35,742
Speaker 1: And then question mark yeah exactly.

519
00:26:36,101 --> 00:26:38,061
Speaker 2: Then everyone in the group chat has to be contacted

520
00:26:38,341 --> 00:26:40,901
Speaker 2: did you see what that was? And then somebody, the

521
00:26:40,982 --> 00:26:45,222
Speaker 2: youngest child probably will be like I saw it. I

522
00:26:45,262 --> 00:26:49,302
Speaker 2: cannot speak of what I saw, but I saw it.

523
00:26:49,462 --> 00:26:52,462
Speaker 1: The next message is just to find a therapist.

524
00:26:52,782 --> 00:26:57,142
Speaker 2: The only solution is delete and deny, deny, deny, it

525
00:26:57,262 --> 00:26:59,702
Speaker 2: never happened. I don't know what you're talking about.

526
00:26:59,742 --> 00:27:02,101
Speaker 1: That's it. One thing you could say, in all seriousness

527
00:27:02,222 --> 00:27:05,302
Speaker 1: is that you can say sorry, like after you delete it. Sorry,

528
00:27:05,422 --> 00:27:09,222
Speaker 1: wrong chat. That was an in joke with my gol Oh, yeah,

529
00:27:09,222 --> 00:27:11,742
Speaker 1: you have to remember, we'll cover it.

530
00:27:11,901 --> 00:27:14,542
Speaker 2: Jesse put a cute picture of Luna at swithing lessons

531
00:27:14,581 --> 00:27:16,621
Speaker 2: in our group chat the other week, and I was like,

532
00:27:16,742 --> 00:27:19,542
Speaker 2: that's an unusual thing. To be in there. I feel

533
00:27:19,542 --> 00:27:21,701
Speaker 2: like it's in the wrong chat, but I have to

534
00:27:21,742 --> 00:27:26,502
Speaker 2: comment on it because Beutel and I was like, is

535
00:27:26,581 --> 00:27:27,101
Speaker 2: really cute?

536
00:27:27,182 --> 00:27:30,101
Speaker 1: That was like cute Luna because you could yeah, because

537
00:27:30,141 --> 00:27:33,621
Speaker 1: you couldn't say wrong chat. I'm disinterested in your child.

538
00:27:34,702 --> 00:27:35,982
Speaker 2: At least it was that one.

539
00:27:36,262 --> 00:27:38,661
Speaker 1: I'm not one of the ones for She's arriving.

540
00:27:40,661 --> 00:27:44,542
Speaker 5: Vibes, ideas atmosphere, something casual, something fun.

541
00:27:45,061 --> 00:27:46,581
Speaker 1: This is my best recommendation.

542
00:27:47,341 --> 00:27:49,461
Speaker 2: It's Friday and you need ship to watch and scroll

543
00:27:49,502 --> 00:27:51,942
Speaker 2: on the weekend. Jesse, go hard. You've got a really

544
00:27:51,942 --> 00:27:52,582
Speaker 2: good record.

545
00:27:52,982 --> 00:27:55,182
Speaker 3: It's the best thing ever made. It's best ever made

546
00:27:55,901 --> 00:27:58,741
Speaker 3: the time. No, no, I don't okay. You know the

547
00:27:58,742 --> 00:28:01,181
Speaker 3: Guardian only ever gives things one to two stars.

548
00:28:01,262 --> 00:28:01,422
Speaker 2: Right.

549
00:28:01,502 --> 00:28:04,381
Speaker 3: The Guardian has given this show five stars and said

550
00:28:04,462 --> 00:28:07,942
Speaker 3: it is as close to television perfection as you can get.

551
00:28:08,422 --> 00:28:12,221
Speaker 3: It is cool television perfection adolescence. It is on Netflix.

552
00:28:12,702 --> 00:28:16,302
Speaker 3: It is mind blowing. You're watching it going wow as

553
00:28:16,341 --> 00:28:21,101
Speaker 3: you're watching it, what are you looking for?

554
00:28:23,101 --> 00:28:24,901
Speaker 5: You're making a big mistake that.

555
00:28:26,661 --> 00:28:27,542
Speaker 3: I haven't done anything.

556
00:28:32,621 --> 00:28:34,941
Speaker 2: He's a good key there, Jamie.

557
00:28:35,182 --> 00:28:37,022
Speaker 4: I want you to listen carefully.

558
00:28:39,622 --> 00:28:42,461
Speaker 1: I'm going to start off with asking you do you

559
00:28:42,502 --> 00:28:46,941
Speaker 1: know a girl called Katie Leonard? Yeah, describe each other

560
00:28:46,982 --> 00:28:50,342
Speaker 1: as friends? Then has she dead?

561
00:28:50,382 --> 00:28:53,422
Speaker 4: Then why would you ask her?

562
00:28:54,182 --> 00:28:59,542
Speaker 3: Hm? It begins with police bursting into Is.

563
00:28:59,542 --> 00:29:01,662
Speaker 1: It a drama because it's come up on my Netflix

564
00:29:01,661 --> 00:29:03,062
Speaker 1: and I'm like, is that a documentary?

565
00:29:03,542 --> 00:29:06,742
Speaker 3: No, it's a drama, but it's unlike anything you've watched.

566
00:29:06,862 --> 00:29:09,062
Speaker 3: So it begins with police bursting into this sort of

567
00:29:09,142 --> 00:29:12,942
Speaker 3: normal suburban home in northern England where Holly's from and

568
00:29:13,222 --> 00:29:17,142
Speaker 3: arresting fourteen year old Jamie Miller on the suspicion of murder.

569
00:29:17,582 --> 00:29:19,342
Speaker 3: And I don't want to give too much away because

570
00:29:19,342 --> 00:29:21,582
Speaker 3: I've seen spoilers going and it's only four episodes, so

571
00:29:21,622 --> 00:29:24,342
Speaker 3: I feel like every plot point is important. But what

572
00:29:24,382 --> 00:29:28,262
Speaker 3: you'll notice pretty quickly is that each episode is shot

573
00:29:28,382 --> 00:29:31,662
Speaker 3: in a single take. So what that means is that

574
00:29:31,862 --> 00:29:34,782
Speaker 3: it unfolds like a play. There are no cuts. You

575
00:29:34,862 --> 00:29:37,382
Speaker 3: follow him to the police station, to the cell, to

576
00:29:37,462 --> 00:29:41,302
Speaker 3: the interrogation, to the evidence. And the second episode is

577
00:29:41,382 --> 00:29:44,622
Speaker 3: filmed in a school with hundreds of children. And I

578
00:29:44,742 --> 00:29:48,022
Speaker 3: just kept going in a single take at forty two minutes.

579
00:29:48,062 --> 00:29:50,102
Speaker 1: What if you stumbled they did this on an episode

580
00:29:50,102 --> 00:29:52,102
Speaker 1: of Succession, Remember the one on the boat where they

581
00:29:52,102 --> 00:29:54,782
Speaker 1: find out that Leans died, And I read so much

582
00:29:54,782 --> 00:29:56,862
Speaker 1: about the making of that episode and how they had

583
00:29:56,862 --> 00:29:59,342
Speaker 1: to run so hard, right, not.

584
00:29:59,502 --> 00:30:01,582
Speaker 3: Just like the cast. There are a few moments the

585
00:30:01,622 --> 00:30:03,542
Speaker 3: technical stuff where Lucra and I've been watching it and

586
00:30:03,542 --> 00:30:05,781
Speaker 3: I went, I reckon, she made a mistake there, and

587
00:30:05,822 --> 00:30:07,942
Speaker 3: she picked up like you're watching it like a play.

588
00:30:07,942 --> 00:30:10,782
Speaker 1: I had to do things like high had batteries in

589
00:30:10,982 --> 00:30:15,662
Speaker 1: certain props and scenery because the camera battery would run

590
00:30:15,661 --> 00:30:17,342
Speaker 1: out after a certain amount of time and they had

591
00:30:17,342 --> 00:30:19,902
Speaker 1: to secretly change it while it was.

592
00:30:20,222 --> 00:30:22,302
Speaker 3: There's a scene where someone's running and they're chasing and

593
00:30:22,342 --> 00:30:25,741
Speaker 3: you just it is remarkable. So Owen Cooper who is

594
00:30:25,782 --> 00:30:30,342
Speaker 3: the lead. He's fifteen years old. His performance is mind blowing.

595
00:30:30,622 --> 00:30:34,142
Speaker 3: And Stephen Graham, who if you watch British Police procedurals

596
00:30:34,142 --> 00:30:36,102
Speaker 3: you recognize he was in Line of Duty. I think

597
00:30:36,182 --> 00:30:38,542
Speaker 3: he's even been in like Pirates Caribbean. Very famous actor.

598
00:30:38,622 --> 00:30:39,382
Speaker 2: Who does he play?

599
00:30:39,502 --> 00:30:40,142
Speaker 3: He is the Dave.

600
00:30:40,222 --> 00:30:43,462
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, he's very familiar and.

601
00:30:41,582 --> 00:30:44,941
Speaker 3: He wrote it him and another guy wrote it together,

602
00:30:45,222 --> 00:30:48,181
Speaker 3: so he's just blow me away. But it is a

603
00:30:48,222 --> 00:30:52,342
Speaker 3: show about Andrew Tate and the alienation of young men

604
00:30:52,502 --> 00:30:56,862
Speaker 3: and misogyny and toxic masculinity. It's gonna be this year's

605
00:30:57,222 --> 00:31:00,342
Speaker 3: baby Rangeer. It's gonna win every upset.

606
00:31:00,862 --> 00:31:03,421
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, I've only watched one episode and it's one

607
00:31:03,502 --> 00:31:06,342
Speaker 2: hundred percent. I'm not watching it like I've only watched

608
00:31:06,382 --> 00:31:08,742
Speaker 2: one episodes, but it is amazing. It's every bit as

609
00:31:08,742 --> 00:31:13,062
Speaker 2: great as Jesse, but it's everybody. It is a grim

610
00:31:13,222 --> 00:31:17,502
Speaker 2: Northern English crime drama, but not of your typical kind.

611
00:31:17,902 --> 00:31:21,502
Speaker 1: I've got something that's a lovely palette cleanser after you've

612
00:31:21,542 --> 00:31:25,382
Speaker 1: watched that. It is so random. It is an account

613
00:31:25,422 --> 00:31:29,902
Speaker 1: on YouTube that I've found that shows at a I

614
00:31:29,942 --> 00:31:33,742
Speaker 1: don't even know what kind of game it is, baseball baseball,

615
00:31:34,302 --> 00:31:36,542
Speaker 1: they have this look alike cam. I'm not going to

616
00:31:36,582 --> 00:31:37,902
Speaker 1: explain it very well because it's very few.

617
00:31:37,982 --> 00:31:39,582
Speaker 3: No, this has popped up on my TikTok.

618
00:31:39,742 --> 00:31:42,102
Speaker 1: Has it Okay, So it's on TikTok. I found it

619
00:31:42,142 --> 00:31:45,542
Speaker 1: on YouTube shorts and it goes into the audience. It

620
00:31:45,542 --> 00:31:47,782
Speaker 1: will have like, I don't know, a picture of Bart Simpson,

621
00:31:47,862 --> 00:31:50,342
Speaker 1: and then it'll find someone in the massive crowd that

622
00:31:50,382 --> 00:31:52,741
Speaker 1: looks like Bart Simpson and they don't know they're going

623
00:31:52,782 --> 00:31:55,302
Speaker 1: to be on it. So everyone in this whole stadium

624
00:31:55,502 --> 00:31:58,221
Speaker 1: at the same time looks at the Bart Simpson and

625
00:31:58,262 --> 00:32:01,062
Speaker 1: then looks at this person, and everyone like cheers.

626
00:32:01,222 --> 00:32:02,862
Speaker 3: Do just a friend nominate them? I've always had a

627
00:32:02,862 --> 00:32:04,022
Speaker 3: theory that someone does.

628
00:32:03,942 --> 00:32:07,182
Speaker 1: A pot sometimes they do dominate them. Yeah, I know.

629
00:32:07,262 --> 00:32:10,182
Speaker 1: Now I'm obsessed with how it works, but it everybody

630
00:32:10,182 --> 00:32:15,862
Speaker 1: from cartoon characters to celebrities. Sometimes it's very funny, like

631
00:32:16,022 --> 00:32:16,782
Speaker 1: they'll be like.

632
00:32:16,902 --> 00:32:18,941
Speaker 3: Is It'll be Peter Griffin and I'm like, well.

633
00:32:18,822 --> 00:32:22,062
Speaker 1: Like Rock from the Minions, and you'll just go like

634
00:32:22,182 --> 00:32:25,461
Speaker 1: that is so true, and everyone's in the spirit of it.

635
00:32:25,542 --> 00:32:26,661
Speaker 1: So everyone like laughs.

636
00:32:26,862 --> 00:32:29,822
Speaker 2: Expressed to me the person, explain to me what you're

637
00:32:30,062 --> 00:32:32,822
Speaker 2: doing when you reach for this kind of content, Like

638
00:32:32,902 --> 00:32:35,182
Speaker 2: what role does it play in your day? So what I.

639
00:32:35,262 --> 00:32:38,502
Speaker 1: Found is because I watch YouTube when I'm on the treadmill,

640
00:32:38,982 --> 00:32:42,302
Speaker 1: and sometimes I just need things that have nothing to

641
00:32:42,342 --> 00:32:44,461
Speaker 1: do with work, that aren't like we should do this,

642
00:32:44,542 --> 00:32:46,382
Speaker 1: that aren't going to spark an idea or anything. Although

643
00:32:46,462 --> 00:32:50,102
Speaker 1: I'm recommending this now, but I just found myself going

644
00:32:50,342 --> 00:32:52,462
Speaker 1: down this rabbit hole of watching them again and again

645
00:32:52,502 --> 00:32:54,181
Speaker 1: and again, more and more of them. And just I

646
00:32:54,222 --> 00:32:56,422
Speaker 1: had this stupid smile on my face the whole time.

647
00:32:56,582 --> 00:32:58,942
Speaker 3: May And that is rare. This is what's going to happen, Holly.

648
00:32:59,022 --> 00:33:00,862
Speaker 3: Maya's going to go to the US. She's going to

649
00:33:00,942 --> 00:33:04,142
Speaker 3: nominate herself as looking like Rachel McAdams. That which time

650
00:33:05,102 --> 00:33:07,382
Speaker 3: they're going to be so disappointed by the comparison.

651
00:33:08,422 --> 00:33:12,622
Speaker 2: So true, just randomly relevant to nothing. We're driving the

652
00:33:12,622 --> 00:33:14,782
Speaker 2: other DA and he just went, God, me, it looks

653
00:33:14,782 --> 00:33:15,622
Speaker 2: like Matilda Brown.

654
00:33:16,502 --> 00:33:20,902
Speaker 1: That's the other one. I get like Brian Brown and

655
00:33:20,982 --> 00:33:22,502
Speaker 1: Rachel's daughter. I get that a lot.

656
00:33:23,742 --> 00:33:25,622
Speaker 3: Why are you thinking about that?

657
00:33:25,622 --> 00:33:29,582
Speaker 1: That and Rachel McAdams. Anyway, that's my record, Colly, what's

658
00:33:29,622 --> 00:33:30,062
Speaker 1: your record?

659
00:33:30,382 --> 00:33:33,182
Speaker 2: A reco that will make Mia be very like told

660
00:33:33,222 --> 00:33:35,822
Speaker 2: you so, which is always fun. It's for a particular video.

661
00:33:35,902 --> 00:33:38,542
Speaker 2: But there's a woman on Instagram who I really like

662
00:33:38,661 --> 00:33:41,782
Speaker 2: to watch for her parenting advice for teenagers. You know

663
00:33:41,822 --> 00:33:44,782
Speaker 2: how lots of parenting advice is for little kids, and

664
00:33:44,902 --> 00:33:47,102
Speaker 2: that's why we've created a show at Mama Mia called

665
00:33:47,142 --> 00:33:49,862
Speaker 2: Help I Have a Teenager. It's a very different face, right,

666
00:33:50,182 --> 00:33:54,462
Speaker 2: And the other thing about teenage parenting content is it's

667
00:33:54,582 --> 00:33:56,942
Speaker 2: often the end of the world you know what I mean,

668
00:33:57,022 --> 00:34:00,382
Speaker 2: it's like everything's awful and actually less takes. Let's not

669
00:34:00,502 --> 00:34:04,382
Speaker 2: talk about adolescents in the TV show in the context

670
00:34:04,382 --> 00:34:07,022
Speaker 2: of this. But they're awful, they're bitchy, they're this, they're that,

671
00:34:07,102 --> 00:34:09,982
Speaker 2: blah blah. There's a woman on Instagram called Lisa and

672
00:34:10,062 --> 00:34:13,262
Speaker 2: she is a psychologist, a child psychologist who specialize in teenagers.

673
00:34:13,262 --> 00:34:15,942
Speaker 2: She is American. She was a consultant on Inside Out

674
00:34:15,942 --> 00:34:20,022
Speaker 2: to She is also just the most glorious, beautiful talent

675
00:34:20,062 --> 00:34:21,781
Speaker 2: on this issue. She comes from a place of she

676
00:34:21,942 --> 00:34:25,102
Speaker 2: loves teenagers and she's still practicing, so she talks about

677
00:34:25,221 --> 00:34:29,261
Speaker 2: teenage she sees and also she always tells you, which

678
00:34:29,302 --> 00:34:31,142
Speaker 2: is the main thing that parents of teenagers worry about,

679
00:34:31,261 --> 00:34:33,742
Speaker 2: that if they are pulling away, that's what's meant to happen,

680
00:34:33,822 --> 00:34:36,062
Speaker 2: which is also to me, as we said to me. Anyway,

681
00:34:36,062 --> 00:34:38,461
Speaker 2: there is a particular video of hers that I came

682
00:34:38,502 --> 00:34:41,102
Speaker 2: across this week I really loved, and she talked about

683
00:34:41,142 --> 00:34:42,942
Speaker 2: how when you're a teenager, you go from being a

684
00:34:43,022 --> 00:34:46,381
Speaker 2: jelly bean parent to a Brussels sprout parent. And she's

685
00:34:46,502 --> 00:34:49,062
Speaker 2: explained that that's because like when your kids are little,

686
00:34:49,062 --> 00:34:51,421
Speaker 2: so like where Luna is with you right now. Jesse,

687
00:34:51,902 --> 00:34:55,462
Speaker 2: You're a jelly bean. You are a delight, like you're

688
00:34:55,462 --> 00:34:58,982
Speaker 2: a treat. Seeing you is their eyes lied up and

689
00:34:59,022 --> 00:35:01,342
Speaker 2: the smile and mummy, and you're a jelly bean and

690
00:35:01,382 --> 00:35:03,062
Speaker 2: they just want more of you and they want you

691
00:35:03,102 --> 00:35:06,102
Speaker 2: all the time. And when they're a teenager, you're a

692
00:35:06,142 --> 00:35:11,582
Speaker 2: Brussels sprouted. Because I don't like it. It's because because

693
00:35:11,622 --> 00:35:14,542
Speaker 2: they know that you're good for them and that you

694
00:35:14,661 --> 00:35:17,741
Speaker 2: have some utility, so you're like something they need in

695
00:35:17,781 --> 00:35:21,861
Speaker 2: their life and their diet. But you're kind of like, yeah,

696
00:35:21,902 --> 00:35:25,302
Speaker 2: but the kickers sprout, So how do I I actually

697
00:35:25,302 --> 00:35:29,462
Speaker 2: love that vegetable you hate? Analogy doesn't work for us.

698
00:35:29,462 --> 00:35:32,622
Speaker 2: We're all Brussels Sprouse fans. But the thing I particularly

699
00:35:32,661 --> 00:35:34,982
Speaker 2: love about this because you're like yes. And I remember

700
00:35:34,982 --> 00:35:37,022
Speaker 2: reading a column that me around one hundred years ago

701
00:35:37,022 --> 00:35:40,381
Speaker 2: about this and me going oh. She says that what

702
00:35:40,462 --> 00:35:43,741
Speaker 2: parents of teens need to actively do is seek out

703
00:35:43,822 --> 00:35:47,102
Speaker 2: other forms of joy in the world, because otherwise, during

704
00:35:47,142 --> 00:35:49,742
Speaker 2: this period their self esteem will plummet.

705
00:35:49,982 --> 00:35:52,022
Speaker 5: What I would say is that if you are raising

706
00:35:52,062 --> 00:35:56,341
Speaker 5: a teenager, you need all adults need another source of

707
00:35:56,382 --> 00:36:00,262
Speaker 5: feeling really good about themselves and feeling valuable in the world.

708
00:36:00,862 --> 00:36:03,821
Speaker 5: So have other people who love you, who you turn

709
00:36:03,942 --> 00:36:07,542
Speaker 5: to have a job or a hobby or work volunteer

710
00:36:07,622 --> 00:36:11,341
Speaker 5: or paid that you do is meaningful to you. It

711
00:36:11,422 --> 00:36:14,062
Speaker 5: is much much easier to be a Brussels Sprount to

712
00:36:14,181 --> 00:36:18,261
Speaker 5: raise teenagers when your sense of value and feeling liked

713
00:36:18,382 --> 00:36:20,701
Speaker 5: and loved in the world does not hinge on how

714
00:36:20,741 --> 00:36:22,701
Speaker 5: your teenager is acting that day.

715
00:36:23,062 --> 00:36:25,462
Speaker 2: You still are super important to that and you need

716
00:36:25,502 --> 00:36:27,622
Speaker 2: to be around, and you need to be helping and

717
00:36:27,661 --> 00:36:30,381
Speaker 2: doing all the things and being present. But you need

718
00:36:30,422 --> 00:36:32,261
Speaker 2: to find other things, other sources of.

719
00:36:32,181 --> 00:36:35,381
Speaker 3: How very well you started saying pretty mummy. I don't

720
00:36:35,382 --> 00:36:37,861
Speaker 3: think that fourteen year olds are going that Matilda's going

721
00:36:37,982 --> 00:36:41,022
Speaker 3: pretty mummy, so not try and make her?

722
00:36:41,661 --> 00:36:44,622
Speaker 2: Does mummy look pretty good? We'll put a link to

723
00:36:44,661 --> 00:36:45,982
Speaker 2: her stuff in the show notes.

724
00:36:45,862 --> 00:36:48,741
Speaker 3: And you can look alike cam after the break a

725
00:36:48,822 --> 00:36:52,462
Speaker 3: Megan moment performance, anxiety and bursting with pride. It is

726
00:36:52,582 --> 00:36:54,062
Speaker 3: our best and worst of the week.

727
00:36:54,622 --> 00:36:57,421
Speaker 1: Every Tuesday and Thursday we drop new segments of Mum

728
00:36:57,422 --> 00:36:59,221
Speaker 1: and Me are Out Loud just for Mum and Me

729
00:36:59,302 --> 00:37:01,821
Speaker 1: as subscribers follow the link in the show notes to

730
00:37:01,862 --> 00:37:04,142
Speaker 1: get your daily dose of out Loud and a big

731
00:37:04,181 --> 00:37:06,821
Speaker 1: thank you to everyone who is already subscribed.

732
00:37:16,302 --> 00:37:18,221
Speaker 3: It's time for best and Worse. This is a part

733
00:37:18,261 --> 00:37:20,181
Speaker 3: of the show where we share a little bit from

734
00:37:20,221 --> 00:37:23,982
Speaker 3: our personal lives. Maya, I want to know your worst first, please.

735
00:37:24,221 --> 00:37:25,381
Speaker 1: I fell out of my roof.

736
00:37:25,542 --> 00:37:26,862
Speaker 3: Why were you in your rope?

737
00:37:26,942 --> 00:37:28,941
Speaker 1: I did in fall off my roof. I fell out

738
00:37:28,982 --> 00:37:32,502
Speaker 1: of my roof. So in my home office, which is

739
00:37:32,542 --> 00:37:35,661
Speaker 1: also my wardrobe, there is a ladder that goes up

740
00:37:35,661 --> 00:37:39,382
Speaker 1: to the attic and that's where you know, wist all things.

741
00:37:39,582 --> 00:37:42,022
Speaker 1: And I had a whole lot of clothes that were

742
00:37:42,062 --> 00:37:44,341
Speaker 1: in a basket that I was trying to carry up.

743
00:37:44,422 --> 00:37:47,102
Speaker 1: It's like not a vertical ladder, but it's like quite steep,

744
00:37:48,181 --> 00:37:51,461
Speaker 1: and I thought I could carry it up with one

745
00:37:51,542 --> 00:37:54,221
Speaker 1: hand while I held onto the well there was in

746
00:37:54,261 --> 00:37:57,142
Speaker 1: a banister. That was my problem. Anyway, I got halfway

747
00:37:57,221 --> 00:38:02,022
Speaker 1: up and the weight of it I tiptop pulled over backwards.

748
00:38:03,102 --> 00:38:05,542
Speaker 1: Tried to reach out to break my fall on one

749
00:38:05,582 --> 00:38:08,142
Speaker 1: of my clothes racks, which unfortunately was made of wood

750
00:38:08,302 --> 00:38:12,461
Speaker 1: and splintered and completely collapsed under me, and I ended

751
00:38:12,542 --> 00:38:15,502
Speaker 1: up on smashing through it.

752
00:38:15,542 --> 00:38:16,102
Speaker 2: Did you hurt.

753
00:38:16,142 --> 00:38:17,821
Speaker 1: I can't show you because it's under this shirt, but

754
00:38:17,862 --> 00:38:20,261
Speaker 1: I've got a big scratch and a bruise, and I

755
00:38:20,302 --> 00:38:22,102
Speaker 1: thought I really hurt my ankle. I thought I'd done

756
00:38:22,102 --> 00:38:23,661
Speaker 1: my ankle. But you know, when you're lying there for

757
00:38:23,701 --> 00:38:27,701
Speaker 1: a minute and you're just thinking, I wonder like you're

758
00:38:27,741 --> 00:38:31,182
Speaker 1: sort of doing a little scan. This is quite bad,

759
00:38:31,622 --> 00:38:33,502
Speaker 1: but it's not as bad as it could have been.

760
00:38:33,542 --> 00:38:34,462
Speaker 1: It could have been worse.

761
00:38:34,582 --> 00:38:36,381
Speaker 2: Can I ask it one related questions? I think we'll

762
00:38:36,382 --> 00:38:38,982
Speaker 2: be useful to the outlouders to know when you're storing

763
00:38:39,022 --> 00:38:42,022
Speaker 2: clothes in the attic, Yes, because you're really good at

764
00:38:42,062 --> 00:38:46,502
Speaker 2: like seasonal clothes clear out. Are they literally in a

765
00:38:46,542 --> 00:38:48,261
Speaker 2: big bag? Do you put them in one of those

766
00:38:49,142 --> 00:38:51,261
Speaker 2: suction things to keep them from going moldy? How do

767
00:38:51,302 --> 00:38:53,102
Speaker 2: you store your clothes? The outluders would want to know.

768
00:38:53,302 --> 00:38:55,982
Speaker 1: I used to. I've got some racks in the attic,

769
00:38:56,022 --> 00:38:58,102
Speaker 1: and I've got like a big plastic thing that goes

770
00:38:58,181 --> 00:39:01,661
Speaker 1: over the rats. But these particular clothes, I'm pulling some

771
00:39:01,661 --> 00:39:04,022
Speaker 1: stuff together for a I'm going to do a sale

772
00:39:04,022 --> 00:39:05,661
Speaker 1: of a whole lot of my clothes to raise money

773
00:39:05,661 --> 00:39:08,142
Speaker 1: for Rise Up. And so these were just in a

774
00:39:08,181 --> 00:39:10,502
Speaker 1: garbage bag. You know, I'm storing those ones before I

775
00:39:10,542 --> 00:39:13,181
Speaker 1: get them ready for sale. They're up in a garbage bag.

776
00:39:13,622 --> 00:39:15,301
Speaker 1: But then I was lying on the floor, and you

777
00:39:15,342 --> 00:39:17,102
Speaker 1: know when you're like, you want everyone to come and

778
00:39:17,102 --> 00:39:19,982
Speaker 1: see if you're okay, and I just know I wanted

779
00:39:20,142 --> 00:39:23,062
Speaker 1: and so someone downstairs because I screamed as I fell,

780
00:39:23,102 --> 00:39:25,701
Speaker 1: and then it was bang. And then my daughter was

781
00:39:25,701 --> 00:39:29,462
Speaker 1: downstairs and she called up, are you okay? And I

782
00:39:29,502 --> 00:39:32,821
Speaker 1: called back down, yes, I'm okay, because I didn't want

783
00:39:32,822 --> 00:39:34,861
Speaker 1: anyone to think that I could have been killed, which

784
00:39:34,862 --> 00:39:39,022
Speaker 1: actually could have been. Well did not really but maybe anyway,

785
00:39:39,062 --> 00:39:42,022
Speaker 1: then she didn't come, Well, you said you're okay, And

786
00:39:42,062 --> 00:39:44,301
Speaker 1: then afterwards I told my husband. Then I had to

787
00:39:44,302 --> 00:39:46,381
Speaker 1: go and tell every member of my family a lot

788
00:39:46,382 --> 00:39:47,102
Speaker 1: of yeah.

789
00:39:47,142 --> 00:39:49,062
Speaker 3: I got Luca saying mom fell out of a room,

790
00:39:49,102 --> 00:39:50,942
Speaker 3: so I imagine texted him saying I fell out of it.

791
00:39:51,102 --> 00:39:52,942
Speaker 1: I just went into all of the rooms of my

792
00:39:53,022 --> 00:39:55,942
Speaker 1: house and just told the people. And Remy was playing

793
00:39:56,102 --> 00:39:59,262
Speaker 1: Xbox with Luca and he told Luca on the headset

794
00:39:59,302 --> 00:40:02,181
Speaker 1: and they both laughed a lot. And so anyway, that

795
00:40:02,221 --> 00:40:02,742
Speaker 1: was my worst.

796
00:40:02,781 --> 00:40:04,421
Speaker 2: It's a sad little moment when you have to pick

797
00:40:04,462 --> 00:40:05,781
Speaker 2: yourself up off the floor, isn't it?

798
00:40:05,902 --> 00:40:09,181
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly is to help exactly, No one came. My

799
00:40:09,582 --> 00:40:12,982
Speaker 1: test was that I did not have to interview Anthony

800
00:40:12,982 --> 00:40:17,622
Speaker 1: Albanese and Peter Dutton last week. And it's not that

801
00:40:17,942 --> 00:40:19,982
Speaker 1: they're not lovely, and I you know, I met with

802
00:40:20,022 --> 00:40:23,462
Speaker 1: both of them, but doing those kinds of interviews are

803
00:40:23,701 --> 00:40:28,462
Speaker 1: so much pressure and so much work. And I really

804
00:40:29,062 --> 00:40:31,221
Speaker 1: loved that Kate did it. She did a better job

805
00:40:31,261 --> 00:40:33,742
Speaker 1: than I would have done. She was warm, she was funny,

806
00:40:33,741 --> 00:40:37,781
Speaker 1: she was irreverent, she was cheeky, she was smart, she

807
00:40:37,822 --> 00:40:40,982
Speaker 1: was unexpected. I just loved listening to it and that

808
00:40:41,062 --> 00:40:43,022
Speaker 1: we did it at Mamamea. But I didn't. I wasn't

809
00:40:43,022 --> 00:40:43,981
Speaker 1: the one that had to do it.

810
00:40:44,022 --> 00:40:46,542
Speaker 3: And I thought as well, because you've interviewed Anthony Alberanzi

811
00:40:46,582 --> 00:40:48,422
Speaker 3: and that would have been a hard thing to interview

812
00:40:48,502 --> 00:40:51,781
Speaker 3: him again. It would have just been you covered certain grounds. Yeah,

813
00:40:51,781 --> 00:40:54,022
Speaker 3: that's nice to have someone else pickure it is.

814
00:40:54,382 --> 00:40:58,142
Speaker 1: And I've interviewed a lot of prime ministers and it's

815
00:40:58,142 --> 00:41:00,301
Speaker 1: always a lot of pressure. Like they're always lovely, but

816
00:41:00,382 --> 00:41:03,421
Speaker 1: interviewing politicians is particularly hard because they're really good at it.

817
00:41:04,102 --> 00:41:07,181
Speaker 2: And when you sit down with the Prime Minister, like,

818
00:41:07,382 --> 00:41:09,542
Speaker 2: are they somebody that you'll intimidated by?

819
00:41:09,942 --> 00:41:13,302
Speaker 1: Not at all, not because I'm like so full of myself,

820
00:41:13,342 --> 00:41:16,542
Speaker 1: but because when you meet anyone in person, they're just

821
00:41:16,781 --> 00:41:19,982
Speaker 1: normal people. So I'm not intimidated by them at all.

822
00:41:20,062 --> 00:41:23,221
Speaker 1: But I'm intimidated by I've got to get something good

823
00:41:23,261 --> 00:41:25,181
Speaker 1: out of this interview, and I can't be walked all

824
00:41:25,181 --> 00:41:28,342
Speaker 1: over and I can't challenge them when they say blah blah.

825
00:41:28,382 --> 00:41:30,942
Speaker 1: I don't know because I'm not LEAs sales. So it

826
00:41:31,062 --> 00:41:33,901
Speaker 1: was just wonderful. There's such great interviews and I didn't

827
00:41:33,902 --> 00:41:34,662
Speaker 1: have to do them.

828
00:41:34,862 --> 00:41:36,302
Speaker 3: Holly, what was your worst?

829
00:41:36,661 --> 00:41:39,302
Speaker 2: My friend Panny, who does listen to this show? So Hi, Penny,

830
00:41:39,422 --> 00:41:43,142
Speaker 2: you're my worst of the week this week because Penny's

831
00:41:43,142 --> 00:41:45,262
Speaker 2: a caller. You know, we all have friends who are callers.

832
00:41:45,622 --> 00:41:48,062
Speaker 2: Driving the car. Hate that she calls me, I pick

833
00:41:48,102 --> 00:41:51,462
Speaker 2: up start. It doesn't say hello, she says, what are

834
00:41:51,462 --> 00:41:53,542
Speaker 2: you doing on social media? Dress like that?

835
00:41:54,422 --> 00:41:56,782
Speaker 3: Oh ah, how were you dressed?

836
00:41:57,942 --> 00:41:59,982
Speaker 2: I was in my gardening. She I was like in

837
00:42:00,022 --> 00:42:02,582
Speaker 2: a pair of shitty old leggings and birkenstocks and a

838
00:42:02,661 --> 00:42:05,502
Speaker 2: really ugly hat and an apron, but I was talking

839
00:42:05,542 --> 00:42:08,941
Speaker 2: about my gardening and she was just like, no, you're

840
00:42:08,942 --> 00:42:12,301
Speaker 2: not sucking. She said, Meghan Markle, stop it.

841
00:42:12,942 --> 00:42:15,941
Speaker 1: I obviously clearly you would Meghan market because Meghan Marka

842
00:42:16,022 --> 00:42:17,221
Speaker 1: would never wear clothes like that.

843
00:42:17,382 --> 00:42:20,462
Speaker 2: She clearly felt I was bringing shame to the friendship.

844
00:42:20,701 --> 00:42:22,542
Speaker 3: I tell people I'm friends with you and you look

845
00:42:22,582 --> 00:42:23,781
Speaker 3: like you're not doing well.

846
00:42:23,542 --> 00:42:27,261
Speaker 2: Exactly like, this isn't what we're doing on social Do.

847
00:42:27,221 --> 00:42:30,941
Speaker 1: You say, Penny, I'm a relatable queen. I was like,

848
00:42:30,982 --> 00:42:32,982
Speaker 1: it's my brand, relatable quam.

849
00:42:33,741 --> 00:42:36,221
Speaker 2: I was like, okay, and then I think, did you

850
00:42:36,261 --> 00:42:38,502
Speaker 2: take it down? I left it up, and in fact,

851
00:42:38,822 --> 00:42:40,902
Speaker 2: what I did is I posted a still of it

852
00:42:40,982 --> 00:42:44,022
Speaker 2: later on my stories to promote my newsletter or an article.

853
00:42:44,422 --> 00:42:47,062
Speaker 2: And she was again, she messaged me, she did like

854
00:42:47,741 --> 00:42:48,822
Speaker 2: I thought we'd discussed.

855
00:42:50,822 --> 00:42:52,582
Speaker 1: I love those kinds of friends.

856
00:42:53,142 --> 00:42:56,582
Speaker 2: I also just love like it was my best worst really,

857
00:42:56,582 --> 00:42:58,902
Speaker 2: But it's also like I didn't think about that.

858
00:42:58,822 --> 00:42:59,421
Speaker 1: Do you know what I mean?

859
00:42:59,822 --> 00:43:02,301
Speaker 2: I didn't think about that that I looked.

860
00:43:02,022 --> 00:43:04,422
Speaker 3: Shit And you don't have to worry that Penny is

861
00:43:04,422 --> 00:43:08,182
Speaker 3: bitching behind your back. Penny's on the phone before thought that's.

862
00:43:08,342 --> 00:43:10,341
Speaker 2: Why she's called me because she those people are going

863
00:43:10,382 --> 00:43:15,182
Speaker 2: to say to her like she's doing my best?

864
00:43:15,221 --> 00:43:15,381
Speaker 3: Though?

865
00:43:15,462 --> 00:43:18,502
Speaker 2: Is Meghan related? To be honest, because on the weekend

866
00:43:18,701 --> 00:43:22,102
Speaker 2: I was inspired by Meghan. I made some of Megan's think.

867
00:43:22,022 --> 00:43:26,901
Speaker 3: What so a blue arch a rainbow? Actually, my mother

868
00:43:26,942 --> 00:43:27,822
Speaker 3: made the rainbow platter.

869
00:43:27,982 --> 00:43:30,182
Speaker 1: She did, she did, she did. Even she came.

870
00:43:30,062 --> 00:43:31,901
Speaker 3: Over to me as on Friday to see the girls

871
00:43:31,942 --> 00:43:33,062
Speaker 3: and she turned up with a rainbow.

872
00:43:35,542 --> 00:43:39,422
Speaker 2: So during COVID, Brent bought me a gift. He brought

873
00:43:39,502 --> 00:43:44,982
Speaker 2: me a citrus dehydrater, which is a thing that dehydrates citrus.

874
00:43:45,062 --> 00:43:45,862
Speaker 3: What would you need one for?

875
00:43:46,142 --> 00:43:48,582
Speaker 2: Well, so in COVID, and there'll be people relating to

876
00:43:48,622 --> 00:43:50,221
Speaker 2: this because we all bought a lot of weird shit

877
00:43:50,502 --> 00:43:53,062
Speaker 2: COVID at times, didn't we. Brent and I had this

878
00:43:53,142 --> 00:43:56,701
Speaker 2: Friday night cocktail routine. We got very into it, like

879
00:43:56,822 --> 00:43:59,181
Speaker 2: trying out different cocktails, and I got very strict about it.

880
00:43:59,221 --> 00:44:01,181
Speaker 2: I remember one time he suggested a Gin and Tonic

881
00:44:01,221 --> 00:44:02,582
Speaker 2: on a Thursday and I was like, Brent, have you

882
00:44:02,622 --> 00:44:04,941
Speaker 2: lost your mind? We can't just let everything go.

883
00:44:05,701 --> 00:44:09,701
Speaker 1: Like you have to wait animals brand exactly.

884
00:44:10,382 --> 00:44:13,582
Speaker 2: So it coincided with us first moving out of the city,

885
00:44:13,582 --> 00:44:15,742
Speaker 2: and when we moved there it was winter. And it's true.

886
00:44:15,741 --> 00:44:18,181
Speaker 2: What Meghan says is true. I know that it sounds ridiculous,

887
00:44:18,181 --> 00:44:19,062
Speaker 2: but there is a lot.

888
00:44:18,902 --> 00:44:22,022
Speaker 6: Of citrus in the country and they literally you'd be

889
00:44:22,062 --> 00:44:24,382
Speaker 6: walking down the street and this is covid again, remember,

890
00:44:24,741 --> 00:44:27,862
Speaker 6: and people would leave baskets outside their house, like free lemons,

891
00:44:27,942 --> 00:44:30,381
Speaker 6: free limes, free Manderin's like that's how they's wrong.

892
00:44:31,582 --> 00:44:34,181
Speaker 2: So I would dry them out in the oven to

893
00:44:34,221 --> 00:44:37,102
Speaker 2: put them in our cocktails because they make it look nice.

894
00:44:37,102 --> 00:44:39,102
Speaker 2: And they you know that do that in fancy bars, right,

895
00:44:39,102 --> 00:44:41,861
Speaker 2: And there were no fancy bars, So Brent as a

896
00:44:41,862 --> 00:44:44,861
Speaker 2: thoughtful gift, which is exactly what Meghan's mother did for

897
00:44:44,942 --> 00:44:47,942
Speaker 2: her she talks about in the show. Brought me a

898
00:44:48,022 --> 00:44:50,502
Speaker 2: citrus dehydrator, which is like a little mini oven, you know,

899
00:44:50,582 --> 00:44:53,022
Speaker 2: like a little square microwavy size.

900
00:44:53,102 --> 00:44:55,142
Speaker 1: How in actual oven.

901
00:44:55,261 --> 00:44:57,181
Speaker 2: Well, it's not except that you need to put that

902
00:44:57,221 --> 00:44:59,301
Speaker 2: on because the thing about dehydrating citrus it takes a

903
00:44:59,342 --> 00:45:01,622
Speaker 2: long time, like six hours, seven hours, eight hours. You

904
00:45:01,661 --> 00:45:04,102
Speaker 2: don't want you rovin on all that time. Anyway, I'd

905
00:45:04,102 --> 00:45:06,022
Speaker 2: forgotten all about it. It's Dusty at the back of

906
00:45:06,022 --> 00:45:08,662
Speaker 2: the garage, who even thinks about that. I watched Meghan.

907
00:45:08,781 --> 00:45:10,662
Speaker 2: I was like, oh god, I've got one of those.

908
00:45:10,741 --> 00:45:13,462
Speaker 2: And on the weekend, because we had some trus, I

909
00:45:13,622 --> 00:45:16,862
Speaker 2: went and found it, washed it got rid of the cobwebs,

910
00:45:16,902 --> 00:45:18,861
Speaker 2: and I used it. And what Megan did that I

911
00:45:18,902 --> 00:45:21,341
Speaker 2: did is she sprinkled shit on the citrus. So I've

912
00:45:21,342 --> 00:45:26,221
Speaker 2: did flowers. Well you're like this spicy margs chili flakes. Ah,

913
00:45:26,261 --> 00:45:28,782
Speaker 2: so you slice up a lime chili flakes and salt

914
00:45:28,822 --> 00:45:30,941
Speaker 2: okay in there. And then I had a marg. I'll

915
00:45:30,942 --> 00:45:33,182
Speaker 2: share a picture with the older I had a marg

916
00:45:33,261 --> 00:45:37,022
Speaker 2: on Saturday night with my own chili limes. Just call

917
00:45:37,102 --> 00:45:38,462
Speaker 2: me Megan Pennies.

918
00:45:38,142 --> 00:45:42,861
Speaker 3: Rare so classy. I've always said it, my worst is

919
00:45:43,302 --> 00:45:45,701
Speaker 3: losing things. So I don't know if you guys have

920
00:45:45,741 --> 00:45:47,341
Speaker 3: this where you just go through periods of your life.

921
00:45:47,382 --> 00:45:48,902
Speaker 3: I had a day on the weekend where I actually

922
00:45:48,902 --> 00:45:50,341
Speaker 3: just wrote down all the things in my life that

923
00:45:50,382 --> 00:45:53,622
Speaker 3: are missing. Where are my sunglasses? I bought a nice

924
00:45:53,622 --> 00:45:58,902
Speaker 3: sunscreen that's gone, Luna's hat, clothes, just everything is just

925
00:45:58,942 --> 00:46:01,502
Speaker 3: a mess and I can't find any any of it.

926
00:46:01,942 --> 00:46:04,662
Speaker 3: I think because growing up four kit like house is chaos.

927
00:46:04,661 --> 00:46:07,861
Speaker 3: I just lost a lot, and I hate you. Triggered, bag,

928
00:46:08,102 --> 00:46:10,022
Speaker 3: I'm triggered. I'm triggered by.

929
00:46:10,102 --> 00:46:12,062
Speaker 2: All the sheep were always taking your shit?

930
00:46:12,221 --> 00:46:15,181
Speaker 3: Yeah, and where does it go? Where are where are sunglasses?

931
00:46:15,302 --> 00:46:17,941
Speaker 3: And it's also wasteful and I'm not buying anything new

932
00:46:17,942 --> 00:46:20,661
Speaker 3: this year, so in the sunglasses disappear, I'm like, what

933
00:46:20,781 --> 00:46:25,062
Speaker 3: is one squinting? I'm squinting anyway, My life is chaos.

934
00:46:25,261 --> 00:46:28,221
Speaker 3: The best thing is I think I spoke a few

935
00:46:28,221 --> 00:46:31,862
Speaker 3: weeks ago about going to see a performance psychologist because

936
00:46:32,142 --> 00:46:34,981
Speaker 3: since I've had Luna, speaking in front of people has

937
00:46:35,062 --> 00:46:36,902
Speaker 3: made me anxious in a way it never has before,

938
00:46:37,022 --> 00:46:40,261
Speaker 3: and negative rumination and all that kind of stuff. I

939
00:46:40,302 --> 00:46:43,221
Speaker 3: would have instances where I would speak in front of

940
00:46:43,221 --> 00:46:47,142
Speaker 3: people and then it was like I had a two

941
00:46:47,221 --> 00:46:49,821
Speaker 3: day hangover, you know when you've been drinking and then

942
00:46:49,862 --> 00:46:52,142
Speaker 3: the next day you go into an anxiety spiral of

943
00:46:52,221 --> 00:46:56,181
Speaker 3: all the embarrassing anxiety. Yeah, it's that, and I don't

944
00:46:56,221 --> 00:46:57,942
Speaker 3: know how to get out of it. I don't know

945
00:46:57,982 --> 00:47:01,822
Speaker 3: the strategies to deal with it. And so I found this.

946
00:47:01,741 --> 00:47:05,741
Speaker 1: Performing has always been pretty natural. Yeah, you've never overthought it.

947
00:47:05,661 --> 00:47:08,181
Speaker 2: And you do it a lot. You're on TV. Yeah,

948
00:47:08,221 --> 00:47:10,301
Speaker 2: you know, you're obviously live as you do it every

949
00:47:10,382 --> 00:47:11,542
Speaker 2: day in this show.

950
00:47:11,422 --> 00:47:16,622
Speaker 3: And when you start to wig out about something conspiral

951
00:47:16,781 --> 00:47:19,582
Speaker 3: and I could feel it going, and I've seen this

952
00:47:19,622 --> 00:47:21,382
Speaker 3: with people in my family, kind of get attached and

953
00:47:21,422 --> 00:47:23,462
Speaker 3: a bit obsessed with the thought. Then you go, don't

954
00:47:23,462 --> 00:47:24,622
Speaker 3: think about that, don't think about that.

955
00:47:24,902 --> 00:47:29,181
Speaker 1: Is it parenting related? You know how sometimes anxiety that

956
00:47:29,261 --> 00:47:32,582
Speaker 1: you get after having a child will just attach itself

957
00:47:32,622 --> 00:47:34,301
Speaker 1: to something. I think that's it because of me it

958
00:47:34,342 --> 00:47:34,742
Speaker 1: was flying.

959
00:47:34,862 --> 00:47:37,302
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's not. When I am with Luna, I don't

960
00:47:37,502 --> 00:47:40,102
Speaker 3: feel any answer. I don't think I'm more anxious about

961
00:47:40,142 --> 00:47:42,742
Speaker 3: her than would be normal, but it's just attached itself

962
00:47:42,781 --> 00:47:44,941
Speaker 3: to this weird part of my life that I've never

963
00:47:44,942 --> 00:47:48,982
Speaker 3: felt before. So anyway, I've been seeing this psychologist and

964
00:47:49,022 --> 00:47:51,861
Speaker 3: she is just so good, and she said a few

965
00:47:51,862 --> 00:47:53,901
Speaker 3: things that have really really helped. I'm going to share

966
00:47:53,902 --> 00:47:57,062
Speaker 3: two of them, right because of course they it's not

967
00:47:57,142 --> 00:47:58,901
Speaker 3: just about the performance, is it. And she hasn't gone

968
00:47:58,902 --> 00:48:01,341
Speaker 3: into childhood. We haven't done that necessarily, but it's just

969
00:48:01,462 --> 00:48:05,821
Speaker 3: like it's about broader issues. So one thing that she

970
00:48:05,862 --> 00:48:08,701
Speaker 3: tells me to always say is we are striving for excellence,

971
00:48:08,781 --> 00:48:13,261
Speaker 3: not perfection, and excellence has room for mistakes. So I

972
00:48:13,302 --> 00:48:15,422
Speaker 3: would get into a thing where like if I was

973
00:48:15,422 --> 00:48:17,701
Speaker 3: on stage and let's say, I'd trip over my words

974
00:48:17,781 --> 00:48:19,342
Speaker 3: or I'd say the wrong thing. Oh, that's not exactly

975
00:48:19,422 --> 00:48:21,982
Speaker 3: how I wanted that sentence to come off, because I

976
00:48:21,982 --> 00:48:23,941
Speaker 3: can be very black and white. The performance is either

977
00:48:23,982 --> 00:48:25,781
Speaker 3: a piece of shit or brilliant, and I've never done

978
00:48:25,781 --> 00:48:27,582
Speaker 3: a brilliant performance, so it's always a piece of shit.

979
00:48:27,622 --> 00:48:27,861
Speaker 4: Wow.

980
00:48:28,062 --> 00:48:29,821
Speaker 3: And she said, you know, if you go and see

981
00:48:30,022 --> 00:48:32,861
Speaker 3: a singer or someone playing the violin, whatever, just because

982
00:48:32,862 --> 00:48:34,422
Speaker 3: they made an error or they're a bit slow to

983
00:48:34,462 --> 00:48:37,261
Speaker 3: that note or their voice cracked because they were feeling emotional,

984
00:48:37,781 --> 00:48:39,781
Speaker 3: doesn't mean the performance was piece of shit. So I

985
00:48:39,781 --> 00:48:42,301
Speaker 3: really like that. And the second one was that she

986
00:48:42,342 --> 00:48:45,381
Speaker 3: told me about this experiment of they told one group

987
00:48:45,422 --> 00:48:47,381
Speaker 3: of golfers to try for a hole in one and

988
00:48:47,422 --> 00:48:49,582
Speaker 3: another group of golfers to try and get within five

989
00:48:49,622 --> 00:48:51,622
Speaker 3: meters of the whole, and the ones who were told

990
00:48:51,622 --> 00:48:54,261
Speaker 3: to get within five meters had a better accuracy rate.

991
00:48:55,062 --> 00:48:59,582
Speaker 3: So it's about basically lower the standards a little bit.

992
00:49:00,142 --> 00:49:02,222
Speaker 1: See, neither of those things have ever been my problem,

993
00:49:03,022 --> 00:49:05,502
Speaker 1: Like in all honesty. It's never occurred to me to

994
00:49:05,502 --> 00:49:09,502
Speaker 1: aim for perfection, and my standards are always quite low,

995
00:49:09,942 --> 00:49:12,741
Speaker 1: to the point where I sort of pleasantly surprise myself

996
00:49:13,582 --> 00:49:15,021
Speaker 1: by falling over them.

997
00:49:15,181 --> 00:49:17,821
Speaker 3: That's a healthier way to live. I think that when

998
00:49:17,822 --> 00:49:21,822
Speaker 3: you're like obsessed with not getting, you're aiming for that whole.

999
00:49:21,942 --> 00:49:24,661
Speaker 3: Everything that's not that hole is an absolute failure, and

1000
00:49:24,701 --> 00:49:27,181
Speaker 3: it's a hack because in fact, it will be a

1001
00:49:27,181 --> 00:49:30,182
Speaker 3: better performance. So if you're just I've always been obsessed

1002
00:49:30,181 --> 00:49:32,341
Speaker 3: with this thing, like you know, even you watch like

1003
00:49:32,342 --> 00:49:34,701
Speaker 3: a Simone Biles or you watch I don't know, people

1004
00:49:34,822 --> 00:49:37,062
Speaker 3: under high pressure. I think it in theater all the time,

1005
00:49:37,102 --> 00:49:40,181
Speaker 3: and I'm like, how do you deal with that pressure?

1006
00:49:40,582 --> 00:49:43,701
Speaker 3: And to be given these strategies at this stage, like

1007
00:49:43,781 --> 00:49:47,102
Speaker 3: I feel as though I might actually get better at this.

1008
00:49:47,302 --> 00:49:49,102
Speaker 1: I love this because it's about I mean, all therapy

1009
00:49:49,221 --> 00:49:52,142
Speaker 1: is about thought traps, right about Yeah, you think this,

1010
00:49:52,302 --> 00:49:55,461
Speaker 1: but it's not necessarily true. Maybe reframe how you think

1011
00:49:55,462 --> 00:49:55,861
Speaker 1: about this.

1012
00:49:55,982 --> 00:49:56,302
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1013
00:49:56,382 --> 00:49:57,941
Speaker 3: She also said that when you're on stage, or when

1014
00:49:57,982 --> 00:50:00,062
Speaker 3: you do anything performance.

1015
00:50:00,022 --> 00:50:03,622
Speaker 1: Well you're giving a speech to the wedding or a presentation.

1016
00:50:03,342 --> 00:50:05,462
Speaker 3: That what happens to your nervous system is in order

1017
00:50:05,542 --> 00:50:07,462
Speaker 3: to do that, you have to go up, you must

1018
00:50:07,502 --> 00:50:09,382
Speaker 3: go down. And she said, there is not a single

1019
00:50:09,622 --> 00:50:12,821
Speaker 3: former I have ever spoken to who doesn't go down,

1020
00:50:13,422 --> 00:50:17,062
Speaker 3: who does like your Taylor Swift in her hotel room

1021
00:50:17,102 --> 00:50:19,981
Speaker 3: the next day, isn't on a high, she's going, oh

1022
00:50:19,982 --> 00:50:21,181
Speaker 3: my god. I've used my resource.

1023
00:50:21,221 --> 00:50:24,181
Speaker 1: A lot of boy band members or people who are

1024
00:50:24,181 --> 00:50:27,261
Speaker 1: in bands talk about that crushing low after the high.

1025
00:50:27,261 --> 00:50:30,382
Speaker 1: That's why I'm always obsessed with performers what their after

1026
00:50:30,422 --> 00:50:33,062
Speaker 1: show routines are before show routines, but more their after

1027
00:50:33,102 --> 00:50:35,661
Speaker 1: show routines. Taylor Swift used to say that she would

1028
00:50:35,982 --> 00:50:37,781
Speaker 1: after she'd do a series of shows like she do

1029
00:50:37,902 --> 00:50:40,222
Speaker 1: tour three in a row, and then she would actually

1030
00:50:40,221 --> 00:50:42,342
Speaker 1: just take to her bed for two days. She couldn't speak,

1031
00:50:42,582 --> 00:50:43,622
Speaker 1: she would barely get up.

1032
00:50:44,661 --> 00:50:46,381
Speaker 3: And that's when you're not You're not to get stuck

1033
00:50:46,382 --> 00:50:48,261
Speaker 3: in your negative thoughts because your negative thoughts are lying

1034
00:50:48,302 --> 00:50:50,821
Speaker 3: to you, because you're actually just chemically a mess. It's

1035
00:50:50,822 --> 00:50:51,422
Speaker 3: so helpful.

1036
00:50:51,982 --> 00:50:54,622
Speaker 2: That's it. Out louders for the show and for the week.

1037
00:50:54,942 --> 00:50:57,261
Speaker 2: As always, a massive thank you for being here with

1038
00:50:57,382 --> 00:51:00,062
Speaker 2: us all week long. Mia Jesse. What do we have

1039
00:51:00,102 --> 00:51:00,861
Speaker 2: to tell them before we.

1040
00:51:00,862 --> 00:51:03,102
Speaker 3: Go a big thank you to our team. Our group

1041
00:51:03,142 --> 00:51:06,342
Speaker 3: executive producer who has our names in the freezer, Ruth Devine,

1042
00:51:06,661 --> 00:51:09,462
Speaker 3: executive producer Emmeline Gazillis, who probably does two but it's

1043
00:51:09,542 --> 00:51:12,821
Speaker 3: too nice to admitute. Our audio producer Leah Porgies, our

1044
00:51:12,902 --> 00:51:15,821
Speaker 3: video producer Josh Green, both who now have ideas, and

1045
00:51:15,822 --> 00:51:19,781
Speaker 3: our junior content producers are Coco and Tessa.

1046
00:51:19,181 --> 00:51:20,821
Speaker 1: And that loud As. If you want to hear more

1047
00:51:20,862 --> 00:51:24,142
Speaker 1: of us before we go or after we've left. If

1048
00:51:24,142 --> 00:51:27,221
Speaker 1: you've heard everybody talking about the latest episode of White Lotus,

1049
00:51:27,582 --> 00:51:29,781
Speaker 1: we really needed to unpack it. We all came into

1050
00:51:29,781 --> 00:51:33,502
Speaker 1: work and just went, oh, there's the trio friendships, as

1051
00:51:33,502 --> 00:51:35,622
Speaker 1: some people have called the fancies. They're big night out

1052
00:51:35,781 --> 00:51:39,462
Speaker 1: and people are drunk, people are horny, people are topless,

1053
00:51:39,502 --> 00:51:42,301
Speaker 1: and something unbelievable happens. We will pop a link in

1054
00:51:42,342 --> 00:51:44,302
Speaker 1: the show notes. Bye bye.

1055
00:51:45,342 --> 00:51:48,261
Speaker 3: Shout out to any Mum and MEA subscribers listening. If

1056
00:51:48,302 --> 00:51:50,261
Speaker 3: you love the show and you want to support us,

1057
00:51:50,502 --> 00:51:53,422
Speaker 3: subscribing to MoMA Mia is the very best way to

1058
00:51:53,462 --> 00:51:55,902
Speaker 3: do so. There's a link in the episode description