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Speaker 1: You're listening to a Mother and Mia podcast.

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Speaker 2: Mama Maya acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters

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Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on Maya before we start

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Speaker 2: the show. Yeah, I was going to send you a

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Speaker 2: photo last night and then I chickened out. So what

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Speaker 2: happened is I went to like one of my op

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Speaker 2: shops and I bought this top. I wasn't sure, so

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Speaker 2: I went to get my phone from another room, which

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Speaker 2: meant I had to walk past local in the top

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Speaker 2: and he said, what are you wearing? And then he said,

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Speaker 2: when they make a comment, you know it's bad. And

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Speaker 2: he said, do you have a parrot to go with

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Speaker 2: that pirate top? That's a bit me. So I went

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Speaker 2: to take a photo to go, well, I'm sending a

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Speaker 2: photo to me because she'll tell me whether it's cool

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Speaker 2: and trendy or if I can't ever wear this outside.

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Speaker 1: The house my fashion opinion, yes.

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Speaker 2: And so I took a photo and then I looked

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Speaker 2: at the photo and went, I can't send.

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Speaker 1: This to show it to me now, So I thought

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Speaker 1: I'd show it to you now. Oh can I see?

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Speaker 1: So it's not the ruffles that's the problem. It's the

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Speaker 1: very high neck with your very big bosoms.

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Speaker 2: Yes, is I thought that much.

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Speaker 1: The three of us are women of a certain bus size.

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Speaker 2: It's just not right, and it's not the top's fault.

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Speaker 1: It's not the top's fault.

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Speaker 2: It would look great on someone.

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Speaker 1: So what the problem is because it's ruffled around the

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Speaker 1: neck and it then means that it sort of pleats

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Speaker 1: out to the boob line and it just makes you

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Speaker 1: look like you have a mono boob. You got to

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Speaker 1: show skin.

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Speaker 2: Do you think I look like a pirate?

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Speaker 1: No, not a pirate.

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Speaker 2: He also said that I looked like something out of

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Speaker 2: Annie the Musical, and then Luna started shouting Annie Annie,

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Speaker 2: and I was like, I'm just being bullied in this home,

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Speaker 2: and I can't be bullied by Maya too, not at an.

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Speaker 1: I know, I'm broadly supportive. I like that you tried.

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Speaker 1: Thank you, but I think you should free its future

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Speaker 1: maybe to be with someone else.

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Speaker 2: Okay, you know, yeah, yeah that one. No, I think

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Speaker 2: I think you're right. Okay, I'm glad. I asked, welcome

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Speaker 2: to Mamma out loud, what women are actually talking about?

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Speaker 2: On Friday, the nineteenth of September. I'm Jesse Stevens's.

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Speaker 1: Amelia Lester, and I'm mea Friedman, and here's what's on

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Speaker 1: our agenda for today.

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Speaker 2: The real reason why your skincare routine and all your

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Speaker 2: makeup is getting way more expensive.

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Speaker 3: Plus, I've got a dating rule which can actually apply

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Speaker 3: to all sorts of areas of life. But it's either

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Speaker 3: completely brilliant or downright cruel, and I can't tell, so

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Speaker 3: we need to talk about it.

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Speaker 1: People love your dating stories, oh good, a lot of them. Foolishly,

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Speaker 1: some people think that you only like to talk about

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Speaker 1: smart things, but it's not true. You love dating story. Also,

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Speaker 1: we've got some recommendations for your weekend, including an unhinged

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Speaker 1: celebrity doco, a book from Amelia about the love story

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Speaker 1: in an unlikely place, and a sheep and I'll get

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Speaker 1: to that later, but first, in case you missed it,

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Speaker 1: I'm going on holidays tomorrow. And that's not the part

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Speaker 1: that you might have missed, but I wanted to share

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Speaker 1: with you too, travel trends, because you know, I like

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Speaker 1: a trend in any aspect of my life. The first

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Speaker 1: is that soft reset holidays have become a thing, and

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Speaker 1: a soft reset holiday is like a peaceful, low key getaway.

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Speaker 1: So it's the opposite of like a raucous girl's trip. Oh, Like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's about nature, it's about rest. It's an emphasis on

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Speaker 1: mental health and just doing calm things, not being overscheduled.

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Speaker 3: It's girls gone mild, ah gone mild.

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Speaker 1: It's not cities with a packed itinery. It's the opposite

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Speaker 1: of that.

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Speaker 2: I've also had the term sleepcation, which is apparently very

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Speaker 2: big between twenty five to thirty five year olds, and

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Speaker 2: I'm like, look, I'm in that demo. I'm like, we

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Speaker 2: should have more energy than that, but apparently people just

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Speaker 2: going for like a good night's late for a week.

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Speaker 3: The way that is crystallized for me is the anecdote

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Speaker 3: in an article about it, which said that there was

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Speaker 3: a woman who was quoted in the article who went

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Speaker 3: to Paris and instead of hitting up the museums and

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Speaker 3: doing all the sites, she just did nothing but sitting

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Speaker 3: cafes all day. Oh, And I thought, yeah.

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Speaker 1: Okay, guys, you'll be shocked to hear that this is what.

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Speaker 2: My holiday is, sitting in cafes just watching people.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, because you know, I had this thing I want

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Speaker 1: to go to Copenhagen. I've just been like, I want

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Speaker 1: to go to Copenhagen. Not even sure quite where it is,

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Speaker 1: but I want to go there and I just want

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Speaker 1: to sit in cafes. I'll be doing that. I'm going

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Speaker 1: to Paris for a few days and then I'm going

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Speaker 1: to a wedding in Pulia. And I've got nothing planned.

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Speaker 1: Apart from the wedding, I've got nothing scheduled.

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Speaker 3: You don't strike me as someone who is intero scheduling

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Speaker 3: your holidays. Oh no, is this new for you. I

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Speaker 3: don't do tourist attractions. I feel claustrophobic. I just like

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Speaker 3: to go to a city spend a decent amount of

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Speaker 3: time there. I don't really like being in the country.

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Speaker 3: I don't like retreats or anything.

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Speaker 1: But I like to go into a city and I

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Speaker 1: like to pretend that I live there and just live

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Speaker 1: like a local and find a cafe that I like,

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Speaker 1: build a routine.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I have found this because the first time, Like,

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Speaker 2: I love travel, It's one of my favorite things. And

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Speaker 2: when I first go to a place, I have all

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Speaker 2: the lists, like I have to go. I'm ultimate tourist.

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Speaker 2: I've got my backpack. Really yeah, I've got my hat,

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Speaker 2: I've got my like I need to go to this

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Speaker 2: museum and this landmarkt Well, I go and I have

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Speaker 2: my first for example, Rome, go and just tick it

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Speaker 2: all off. I went to Rome for a second time

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Speaker 2: a few years ago, and that was so much better

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Speaker 2: because I ticked off all the great things and I

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Speaker 2: got to have my slowation thing where I just got

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Speaker 2: to walk around and just exist and enjoy Rome without

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Speaker 2: having to run from place to place.

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Speaker 1: It's a soft recess, it's a soft research.

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Speaker 2: What's your other trend.

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Speaker 1: Well, this one I'm really into as well. It's tattourism.

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Speaker 1: So it's people getting tattoos as mementos when they travel.

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Speaker 1: Instead of a fridge magnet or a snow globe or

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Speaker 1: maybe a T shirt, they're getting a little thing. So

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Speaker 1: for example, they might get a hibiscus if they go

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Speaker 1: to Hawaii, or they might get some columns.

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Speaker 2: If you're going to do that, because I obviously I

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Speaker 2: saw some tattooist in one of the articles say your

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Speaker 2: body is like your passport.

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Speaker 1: Get so it's using your the airport.

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Speaker 3: I just want to make that.

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Speaker 1: Might just get a bar code or a QR code

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Speaker 1: on my body.

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Speaker 3: Mia just profers up her forearm. You have a tattoo

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Speaker 3: on your forearm. I'm wondering, when you get a tout.

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Speaker 1: And I've got a tramp stamp, do you want to

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Speaker 1: say it?

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Speaker 3: No, it's okay. You could get someone with your bum

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Speaker 3: and appropriate. Oh yeah, nice.

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Speaker 2: It's definitely an offensive symbol that doesn't mean what you

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Speaker 2: think it means.

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Speaker 1: In another lane, where it was the most basic bitch

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Speaker 1: tattoo you could get, it was like when I turned thirty,

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Speaker 1: I'm like, I just want something a bit as tech

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Speaker 1: on my lower back.

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Speaker 3: So I've always wanted a tattoo. I actually have tattoo

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Speaker 3: regret in the other way. You know how some people

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Speaker 3: regret their tattoos. I regret never getting a tattoo too late.

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Speaker 1: My friend, I got this one on my forearm a

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Speaker 1: couple of years ago. Think when I turned fifty I

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Speaker 1: got it?

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Speaker 3: And do you like looking at it or does it

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Speaker 3: ever even?

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Speaker 1: Oh no, I forget that it's even there.

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Speaker 2: I read recently that tattoos are back because we're having

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Speaker 2: a backlash to this clean girl aesthetic that we've had

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Speaker 2: over the last few years, which is a center part

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Speaker 2: and the no makeup makeup, and yep, we're having.

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Speaker 1: Stamps are coming with.

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Speaker 2: It's been a mess with some messy I make up

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Speaker 2: a side part and one hundred tattoos.

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Speaker 1: And the way young people get tattoos the gen Z's

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Speaker 1: is that they just get little things here and there

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Speaker 1: like that have particular significance, almost like little doodles. Like

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Speaker 1: their body ends up looking like a little dool. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you don't want to go overboard, but once you've crossed

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Speaker 1: the rubicon and got your first, it is a bit addictive.

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Speaker 2: I have to say, I reckon, it's better than the landfill.

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Speaker 2: It's better than the landfill of just getting your fridge

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Speaker 2: magnets everywhere.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so let's see what I come back with. I

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Speaker 1: tried to collect fridge magnets once. My husband doesn't like clutter,

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Speaker 1: so I collected too, and he didn't realize that I

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Speaker 1: was starting a collection and he chucked them out. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: so tattoos it is.

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Speaker 2: Then, Has anyone else noticed that makeup, skincare, the beauty

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Speaker 2: industry in general seems to be getting more expensive. So

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Speaker 2: you walk in and you're just getting your Like, tell me,

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Speaker 2: won't you found out not getting cheaper? It's certainly not

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Speaker 2: getting cheaper. Well, I came across the most interesting insight

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Speaker 2: this week in Justine Cullen's newsletter. She is the format

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Speaker 2: are in chief of L magazine in Style, so she's

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Speaker 2: just she's very savvy and here's what she laid out.

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Speaker 2: So you might have noticed. I'm sure we've talked about

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Speaker 2: it here. The tweens have swarmed on Mecca and Sophora.

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Speaker 2: They have made it their own. You walk in now

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Speaker 2: and they're running around. They got their fingers and the

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Speaker 2: testers they're using their Drunk Elephant glow recipe Summer Friday's

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Speaker 2: all of those that used to be ours and they

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Speaker 2: love it. They have an eleven step routine and like,

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Speaker 2: Drunk Elephant is not an inexpensive brand, right, but something

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Speaker 2: about it very expensive, very expensive, and it's like the

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Speaker 2: aesthetic of it I think really appeals, like the packaging

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Speaker 2: and so.

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Speaker 1: If you're not familiar with Drunk Elephant. Lip balms in

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Speaker 1: Australia start at about thirty dollars and the skincare sort

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Speaker 1: of goes up to about two point fifty. The containers

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Speaker 1: are white and then the lids are bright colors like

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Speaker 1: fluoro pre amazing, yeah, like lollies yeah.

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Speaker 2: And it has like a great night cream and serum

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Speaker 2: and it's got all that kind of stuff, and they're

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Speaker 2: probably stoked because they've got this new market right, But

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Speaker 2: adult women do not want to be using the same

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Speaker 2: products as their twelve year old daughters or their eight

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Speaker 2: year old niece. So Collen's theory is that the tween

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Speaker 2: takeover of beauty is partly to blame for this wave

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Speaker 2: we're seeing in ultra expensive beauty products hitting the shells,

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Speaker 2: I mean ultra ultra So Louis Vuitton has launched a

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Speaker 2: beauty brand. They're one of the latest sort of luxury

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Speaker 2: brands to move into the beauty space, and they launched

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Speaker 2: a lipstick for two hundred and sixty five dollars, like

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Speaker 2: a Chanelle lipstick I think is like sixty.

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Speaker 3: We should add that they have this whole thing about

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Speaker 3: how you can refill it and it's leather. But it's

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Speaker 3: so undclear doing that.

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Speaker 2: And you know that I cannot pronounce this may or

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Speaker 2: maybe you can, Mason Francis Kirk, Well, you know the

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Speaker 2: perfume brand.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I do.

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Speaker 2: I've read it a thousand times. I can't say it.

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Speaker 1: They've released Francis, I've never it out loud.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, but like I recognize the spelling Anyway, They've

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Speaker 2: released a collector's edition of their cult fragrance, and it's

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Speaker 2: said to smell like sex and money, which is very

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Speaker 2: not twain right, but it retails at forty two thousand dollars.

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Speaker 2: Sorry what dollars? So I suppose the brand problem for

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Speaker 2: your Mecca and your Sephora and the brands at stocks

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Speaker 2: is how do we retain our adult customers while also

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Speaker 2: serving this new massive market of tweens. May you're a

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Speaker 2: business expert.

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Speaker 1: Well, do you think I'm in business?

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Speaker 2: You just spend a lot of time in Mechaste real.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, it's my happy place and Sophora. So in

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Speaker 1: the US, there's a store called Alta Beauty, which is, like,

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Speaker 1: put it in context, Amelia.

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Speaker 3: Alters a little bit down market of Sephora.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's the same kind of vibe. Right, So

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Speaker 1: they're offering tween parties there. Oh, you can go and

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Speaker 1: you can have your party, and the thing like McDonald's.

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Speaker 1: You're like McDonald's exactly. The big mistake that Drunk Elephant

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Speaker 1: made when the Twins discovered their brand was to pander

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Speaker 1: to that and say, oh, this is a whole earlier

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Speaker 1: entry to the pipeline of our customer. We're going to

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Speaker 1: lean hard into advertising on TikTok, We're going to use influences.

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Speaker 1: So even though they didn't specifically market to twins, they

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Speaker 1: went where twins were and their marketing was designed to

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Speaker 1: appeal to tweens. The problem with that among many is firstly,

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Speaker 1: their products aren't designed for twins, So the twins are

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Speaker 1: going to have some bad reactions to the products and

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Speaker 1: guess where they're going to share them on social media

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Speaker 1: because those kinds of products made for adult skin have

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Speaker 1: a lot of actives in them and twins don't need that.

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Speaker 1: The second thing is, i mean, apart from the cost,

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Speaker 1: the big mistake that people make, and this is what

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Speaker 1: drunk Elephant did, is that you don't pitch at the

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Speaker 1: customer you've got, you pitch a little bit above. Because

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Speaker 1: twins don't want something for tweens. That's why they like

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Speaker 1: drunk Elephant in the first place. Right, So what happened

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Speaker 1: was also, as you said, Jesse, you're in Sephora, you're

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Speaker 1: in Mecca, you're at the fancy place, and you're getting

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Speaker 1: jostled by literally a bunch of kids in school uniforms.

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Speaker 1: Suddenly you're like this isn't my brand.

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Speaker 2: This isn't a luxury experience.

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Speaker 1: I didn't belong here. And also just like this brand

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Speaker 1: doesn't embody me, because let's be honest, like beauty products,

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Speaker 1: they're all very similar, maybe with very similar ingredients. We're

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Speaker 1: buying into a brand which says something about us. And

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Speaker 1: the other thing about tweens is that they're incredibly fickle.

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Speaker 1: So they're into that and now they're not, so there

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Speaker 1: is no pipeline. It's not like they then become lifelong

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Speaker 1: customers of Drunk Elephant and so Drunk Elephants sales were

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Speaker 1: down twenty five percent in twenty twenty four and in

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Speaker 1: the first quarter of this year they were down sixty

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Speaker 1: five percent. So because they've lost all those older customers

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Speaker 1: and the twins have gone, they've screwed themselves.

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Speaker 2: So did you know that, I think it's jen Alpha

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Speaker 2: and it's six to twelve year olds. Girls are the

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Speaker 2: biggest consumers of beauty and makeup in the world.

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Speaker 3: I discovered this the other day because I went to

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Speaker 3: see a primary school musical put on by year five

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Speaker 3: and six kids and it was about an excursion that

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Speaker 3: they took to Canbra.

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Speaker 1: I thought, you can say to the Fort, and all.

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Speaker 3: Of the songs were referencing how the girls had to

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Speaker 3: do their skincare routines while they were on the road

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Speaker 3: and while they were on school camp. And I thought

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Speaker 3: back to when I went on school count to Canbra

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Speaker 3: and I definitely didn't even bring my Saint Ives peach

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Speaker 3: scrub with me, let alone, like worry about doing it toothbrush.

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Speaker 1: It was a good yeah.

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Speaker 3: So that's when I it kind of hit me that

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Speaker 3: this is a real thing. But I want to throw

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Speaker 3: another wild cut in here, because I think Justine Cullen's

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Speaker 3: point is really smart. But also where does K beauty

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Speaker 3: fit into this? Because W Beauty and other K beauty

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Speaker 3: emporiums are exploiting all across Australia and now increasingly in

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Speaker 3: the US too.

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Speaker 1: So they're all the Korean beauty. So they're bringing.

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Speaker 3: Korean beauty products to the West. And because there's so

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Speaker 3: much intense competition in Korea, the innovation is so furious.

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Speaker 3: The prices have been driven down because there's so much competition.

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Speaker 3: Skin care as kind of a national pastime in South Korea,

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Speaker 3: and as a result, I'm finding myself increasingly turned into

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Speaker 3: K beauty products because they're better priced, and yet they're

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Speaker 3: on the cutting edge. So I'm wondering how these Western

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Speaker 3: luxury beauty brands like a Lois Vouton see that dynamic

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Speaker 3: with K Beauty.

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Speaker 2: It's also I was reading that K Beauty, which is

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Speaker 2: so much on the rise, is about preventative and almost

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Speaker 2: more simplified ingredients, whereas a lot of other products are

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Speaker 2: about treating issues. I mean, now, adults seem very into

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Speaker 2: K Beauty, but it'll be a matter of time before

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Speaker 2: those shops too, are swarming, especially if they're at a

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Speaker 2: cheaper price point.

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Speaker 1: Well what's so funny about those shops? Do you ever

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Speaker 1: go into them? No? Yeah, so I've started, as suggested

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Speaker 1: by Lee Campbell. There's one near our new office, so

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Speaker 1: I've started to go. I know you've been doing it

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Speaker 1: for a while. I was quite late to it. What's

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Speaker 1: interesting is that like all the packaging and all the

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Speaker 1: marketing is all like for babies, Like it's very like.

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Speaker 3: Lectures are bouncy and yeah, mousy, and.

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Speaker 1: It's like stars and unicorns and fairy floss and sparkly

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Speaker 1: like almost fairies. So it almost looks like play makeup.

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Speaker 1: And that's where the adult women are going and the

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Speaker 1: young women or the young girls are going to supporth

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Speaker 1: buying the expensive products. The other funny thing that's happened

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Speaker 1: that's talked about a lot less is that when there

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Speaker 1: was this big move towards skincare for twins, and there

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Speaker 1: were all these think pieces written about what does it mean?

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Speaker 1: And isn't this terrible? Young boys, teenage boys were moving

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Speaker 1: to Fragrance. And this is something that I thought was

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Speaker 1: just random in my house because my younger son was

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Speaker 1: really into Fragrance for a couple good couple of years.

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Speaker 3: And we're not talking ex bodies pray, are we No.

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Speaker 1: We're not talking links. We're talking about like full on

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Speaker 1: like the Yeah, the best thing to ever do if

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Speaker 1: you don't know what to say to someone young is

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Speaker 1: to go, what's on your TikTok? What's on your for

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Speaker 1: you page? And because everybody's is different, and it's a

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Speaker 1: good way to open a conversation. And I remember asking

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Speaker 1: him at one point a few years ago and he said, Oh,

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Speaker 1: I'm on Fragrance TikTok. So they just sort of get

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Speaker 1: led down and discover these new things, and I thought, oh,

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Speaker 1: this is just really sort of maybe unique to him.

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Speaker 1: A lot of his mates. They would go to David

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Speaker 1: Jones after school and it would just be packed with

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Speaker 1: teenage boys in school uniform.

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Speaker 3: That's a great point about fragrance on TikTok because young

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Speaker 3: people really have embraced that idea of learning and exploring

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Speaker 3: about perfumes on TikTok Frankrance talk, which the fragrance companies

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Speaker 3: were all flabbergasted by. They thought that their business was

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Speaker 3: over when life moved online. But brands like Flour, which

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Speaker 3: I know has just come to Australia which has this

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Speaker 3: real cult fragrance called missing Person, that was kind of

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Speaker 3: the first of the TikTok perfumes to be embraced.

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Speaker 2: So this is my theory though, because I think back

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Speaker 2: to the products I used as a teen, so we

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Speaker 2: were begin to impulse the body Spray Skulls edition. Did

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Speaker 2: you get absolutely? Absolutely? And I can still smell the

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Speaker 2: you know, changing after pe class and you can smell

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Speaker 2: the impulse. Right, I am now revolted by products I

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Speaker 2: used as a team, like I could not pay.

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Speaker 3: There's a real stigma.

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Speaker 2: There's a stigma that it's like every life stage I

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Speaker 2: enter into, I go I need my brands to reflect

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Speaker 2: who I am. So this idea that there's a lifelong pipeline,

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Speaker 2: I think, as you say, Mia, I don't think it's

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Speaker 2: true because I think what we use at one stage

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Speaker 2: we actually certainly do not want to use later. And

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Speaker 2: the tween group, I find is not a real category.

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Speaker 2: It's an advertising category that's been made up to target

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Speaker 2: a new group of people that are actually children, like

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Speaker 2: eight year old the children, let's be real. And what

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Speaker 2: I worry about with the skincare thing is, I know

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Speaker 2: it's age twelve, but probably at about thirteen or fourteen,

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Speaker 2: my skin issue was acne, hormonal acne. Right, these products

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00:18:08,341 --> 00:18:10,861
Speaker 2: are not going to help you with acne. There was

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Speaker 2: nothing topical to put on my skin at fourteen that

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00:18:13,782 --> 00:18:15,821
Speaker 2: was going to make my skin look better. And going

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00:18:15,861 --> 00:18:19,141
Speaker 2: into those shops and seeing the pawless, you know, often

382
00:18:19,381 --> 00:18:23,181
Speaker 2: lots of cosmetic enhancements filtered, would have made me feel

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Speaker 2: so bad. And in fact, I just think.

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Speaker 1: What do you think they're scrolling on their phones constantly.

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Speaker 2: Exactly exactly right. And so I had mess knives Apricots scrub,

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Speaker 2: which probably did no good anyway, but I.

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Speaker 3: Think it was granules of sampos.

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Speaker 2: It was, but I don't think I really believed I

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Speaker 2: was a skincare routine away from having glass skin like

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Speaker 2: I never truly believed that. So I worry that, in fact,

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Speaker 2: a lot of these products are making the skin of

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Speaker 2: this demographic worse rather than better. Whereas where they are, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: whereas in attitude adati pigmentation of fine lines, you can

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Speaker 2: kind of use a few things that doesn't disappear, but

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Speaker 2: that kind of helps.

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Speaker 3: On the other hand, I mean, look, we knew nothing

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00:19:03,222 --> 00:19:05,621
Speaker 3: about how to take care of our skin, as discussed

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00:19:05,661 --> 00:19:08,302
Speaker 3: with the same knives, And if they're getting more serious

399
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Speaker 3: about some protection inarticular from an early age, if for

400
00:19:11,462 --> 00:19:13,982
Speaker 3: nothing else for vanity reasons, I don't think that's necessarily

401
00:19:14,061 --> 00:19:15,941
Speaker 3: bad thing. But I just want to return to your

402
00:19:15,942 --> 00:19:18,101
Speaker 3: idea of the stigma, because I find that so interesting

403
00:19:18,182 --> 00:19:21,381
Speaker 3: and true. I used to love glow Recipe, yeah, and

404
00:19:21,422 --> 00:19:24,022
Speaker 3: now I just feel like I cannot use it because

405
00:19:24,022 --> 00:19:26,781
Speaker 3: it's one of those tween brands and it reminds me

406
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Speaker 3: me of when you were editing women's magazines. Isn't that

407
00:19:29,141 --> 00:19:32,262
Speaker 3: that same principle of your kind of pretending that the

408
00:19:32,302 --> 00:19:34,622
Speaker 3: reader is a little bit older and more advanced than

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00:19:34,621 --> 00:19:35,382
Speaker 3: they are yeah.

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Speaker 1: So if the reader that you want to hit, your

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00:19:38,022 --> 00:19:41,061
Speaker 1: target customer is between eighteen and twenty four, as it

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Speaker 1: was on Cosmo, for example, our creative bullseye would be

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Speaker 1: twenty seven.

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Speaker 2: So here's my question, right, because the same thing happens

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Speaker 2: with clothes. I walk around and I go, I would

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Speaker 2: not enter that shop because that shop is me at fifteen.

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Speaker 2: Women don't want to be shopping at the same shop

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Speaker 2: as Dotty Daughter Rights exactly. They wouldn't. So if you're

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Speaker 2: Macrosophora or you're a beauty giant, what's your answer in

420
00:20:02,982 --> 00:20:08,061
Speaker 2: this climate? Are you making a store specifically for tweens

421
00:20:08,782 --> 00:20:12,821
Speaker 2: so that your other shop can exist as a luxury

422
00:20:12,901 --> 00:20:14,141
Speaker 2: quiet moment for an adult.

423
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Speaker 1: No, because they don't want to be in the kids store.

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Speaker 1: They want to be the big table. That's the whole point.

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00:20:18,502 --> 00:20:20,022
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that's the whole point.

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Speaker 2: Because there's all these products. Now, Like there was a

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00:20:22,101 --> 00:20:24,702
Speaker 2: beauty brand launch just in the US. I think last

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00:20:24,742 --> 00:20:28,021
Speaker 2: week eighty thousand tweens showed up because it was an

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Speaker 2: influencer that they kind of related with. But they're getting

430
00:20:31,542 --> 00:20:34,542
Speaker 2: behind brands like nothing else. So I just I'm really

431
00:20:34,621 --> 00:20:37,501
Speaker 2: interested in what happens in the next six to twelve months,

432
00:20:37,782 --> 00:20:41,341
Speaker 2: when increasingly women who have money to spend are getting

433
00:20:41,341 --> 00:20:44,822
Speaker 2: elbowed out of Sephora by twelve.

434
00:20:44,661 --> 00:20:46,901
Speaker 3: Year old and when they go to the K beauty store. Me,

435
00:20:47,101 --> 00:20:48,981
Speaker 3: I do want to ask you about this. As the

436
00:20:48,982 --> 00:20:51,782
Speaker 3: business brain at the table, I cannot even open Excel

437
00:20:51,821 --> 00:20:53,621
Speaker 3: without getting stressed out. So this is on you.

438
00:20:54,061 --> 00:20:55,341
Speaker 2: She can't either to be clean.

439
00:20:56,782 --> 00:20:59,742
Speaker 3: Given that cave beauty is taking over amongst adult women,

440
00:20:59,742 --> 00:21:02,342
Speaker 3: what do you think that pushed a really high end

441
00:21:02,861 --> 00:21:05,262
Speaker 3: differentiation from the western cosmon experience?

442
00:21:05,341 --> 00:21:05,661
Speaker 2: Is about?

443
00:21:05,821 --> 00:21:07,902
Speaker 3: Is it that they're saying, Look, this isn't about skin care.

444
00:21:07,942 --> 00:21:09,382
Speaker 3: You know, it's not about skin care. It's not about

445
00:21:09,381 --> 00:21:12,581
Speaker 3: the ingredients, it's not about the technology. It's about the status.

446
00:21:12,581 --> 00:21:15,462
Speaker 3: And it's essentially selling skincare like a handbag. Is that it?

447
00:21:15,742 --> 00:21:18,781
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's the same reason why the Row, which is

448
00:21:18,821 --> 00:21:23,302
Speaker 1: Mary Kate and Ashley Olsen's brand, is selling thongs for

449
00:21:23,821 --> 00:21:26,982
Speaker 1: eight hundred or nine hundred dollars and they're branding and

450
00:21:27,341 --> 00:21:29,742
Speaker 1: they're sold out, and they're not made of gold. They're

451
00:21:29,782 --> 00:21:33,501
Speaker 1: just thongs. They're just rubber thongs. The margins obviously are

452
00:21:33,581 --> 00:21:36,101
Speaker 1: much much higher when you have a higher price point

453
00:21:36,821 --> 00:21:39,421
Speaker 1: your audience is smaller, like your target market is smaller.

454
00:21:39,462 --> 00:21:42,782
Speaker 1: But there are certain people of brands that will use

455
00:21:42,942 --> 00:21:47,542
Speaker 1: a higher price point to better distinguish their audience. So

456
00:21:47,581 --> 00:21:52,182
Speaker 1: their audience is smaller, but it's more targeted, I guess.

457
00:21:51,942 --> 00:21:54,381
Speaker 3: And it's not the audience that's necessarily looking for the

458
00:21:54,381 --> 00:21:58,061
Speaker 3: most cutting edge formulation. They're an audience that wants to

459
00:21:58,101 --> 00:22:00,462
Speaker 3: show off the leather lipstick from Louis Vuitton.

460
00:22:00,942 --> 00:22:03,381
Speaker 1: I think the most squeezed part of the market is

461
00:22:03,422 --> 00:22:06,502
Speaker 1: going to be that middle market, because you've got the

462
00:22:07,141 --> 00:22:10,662
Speaker 1: you know, cheap brands, you've got the real prestige brands.

463
00:22:11,101 --> 00:22:13,822
Speaker 1: But that middle market can get a little bit murky

464
00:22:13,942 --> 00:22:16,462
Speaker 1: because is it kind of for everyone. Sometimes when you're

465
00:22:16,502 --> 00:22:18,982
Speaker 1: for everyone, you're for no one. So at the top

466
00:22:19,022 --> 00:22:22,581
Speaker 1: you've got you know, your fenties and the makeup artist

467
00:22:22,661 --> 00:22:25,782
Speaker 1: brands and your drunk elephants and stuff, and then there

468
00:22:25,782 --> 00:22:29,302
Speaker 1: are some fantastic lower end, But it's those sort of

469
00:22:29,302 --> 00:22:31,381
Speaker 1: middle ones that could be a little bit lost.

470
00:22:31,502 --> 00:22:34,821
Speaker 2: And apparently a big thing for tweens because there's this

471
00:22:34,861 --> 00:22:38,422
Speaker 2: culture of empties and there's this culture of obviously filming

472
00:22:38,502 --> 00:22:42,302
Speaker 2: your routine. It is so much about packaging, like they

473
00:22:42,341 --> 00:22:46,302
Speaker 2: are so much more drawn to packaging than older women

474
00:22:46,341 --> 00:22:49,182
Speaker 2: who are maybe more about the ingredients or more about

475
00:22:49,222 --> 00:22:50,222
Speaker 2: the effectiveness.

476
00:22:50,901 --> 00:22:52,901
Speaker 3: Out louders. In a moment, I want to introduce you

477
00:22:52,982 --> 00:22:56,101
Speaker 3: to the Lemon law, and we're going to decide whether

478
00:22:56,182 --> 00:22:58,262
Speaker 3: it's actually a fair way to treat other people.

479
00:22:58,422 --> 00:23:04,022
Speaker 2: After this, out.

480
00:23:03,861 --> 00:23:05,981
Speaker 1: Louders, we've got a listener dilemma and we need your

481
00:23:05,982 --> 00:23:09,621
Speaker 1: collective wisdom to help us and our partners UI to

482
00:23:09,621 --> 00:23:13,661
Speaker 1: solve it. Please, Okay, here's the problem from our listener.

483
00:23:13,782 --> 00:23:16,141
Speaker 1: I haven't read this yet, so wish me luck. My

484
00:23:16,262 --> 00:23:18,381
Speaker 1: husband and I have been planning a week long beach

485
00:23:18,381 --> 00:23:20,901
Speaker 1: holiday with our two young kids for months. We've saved up,

486
00:23:20,901 --> 00:23:23,581
Speaker 1: booked a lovely rental house, and I've been so looking

487
00:23:23,621 --> 00:23:26,382
Speaker 1: forward to some proper family time together, just the four

488
00:23:26,422 --> 00:23:30,621
Speaker 1: of us. Last week, my mother in law, Oh, I see, wealie.

489
00:23:30,381 --> 00:23:33,341
Speaker 2: I didn't write this nice. We throw the two kids

490
00:23:33,341 --> 00:23:34,981
Speaker 2: in need to cover that.

491
00:23:35,182 --> 00:23:36,102
Speaker 3: Yeah.

492
00:23:36,182 --> 00:23:38,742
Speaker 1: Last week my mother in law called and casually mentioned

493
00:23:38,782 --> 00:23:41,381
Speaker 1: she'd looked up a her accommodation online and thought it

494
00:23:41,422 --> 00:23:45,181
Speaker 1: looked divine. Then she announced she'd found it nearby B

495
00:23:45,302 --> 00:23:47,542
Speaker 1: and B and would pop over to join us for

496
00:23:47,581 --> 00:23:50,061
Speaker 1: the week. She didn't ask, she just told us like

497
00:23:50,101 --> 00:23:52,741
Speaker 1: it was already decided. This was supposed to be our

498
00:23:52,742 --> 00:23:55,662
Speaker 1: first proper family holiday in two years. And my mother

499
00:23:55,742 --> 00:23:58,901
Speaker 1: in law is lovely, but she has strong opinions about everything,

500
00:23:59,302 --> 00:24:01,461
Speaker 1: and last time she joined us for a weekend away,

501
00:24:01,782 --> 00:24:04,621
Speaker 1: I felt like I was hosting rather than relaxing. I

502
00:24:04,621 --> 00:24:07,462
Speaker 1: feel attacked. My husband thinks it's fine and says I'm

503
00:24:07,502 --> 00:24:09,982
Speaker 1: being selfish, but I desperately need this break. The last

504
00:24:10,022 --> 00:24:12,022
Speaker 1: time I tried to have a conversation with my mother

505
00:24:12,022 --> 00:24:14,821
Speaker 1: in law about boundaries, it added in tears and weeks

506
00:24:14,821 --> 00:24:17,461
Speaker 1: of frosty phone calls. She accused me of trying to

507
00:24:17,502 --> 00:24:19,702
Speaker 1: keep her away from her family, and my husband took

508
00:24:19,702 --> 00:24:22,621
Speaker 1: her side to keep the peace. So now I'm stuck.

509
00:24:22,702 --> 00:24:25,622
Speaker 1: Do I bite my tongue and accept our family holidays ruined?

510
00:24:25,982 --> 00:24:29,182
Speaker 1: Do I risk another confrontation or is this my husband's

511
00:24:29,182 --> 00:24:33,262
Speaker 1: responsibility since it's his mother. He keeps saying that I

512
00:24:33,302 --> 00:24:35,941
Speaker 1: should just let it go, like the song? Am I

513
00:24:35,982 --> 00:24:38,782
Speaker 1: being unreasonable? And how do I handle this without causing

514
00:24:38,821 --> 00:24:42,782
Speaker 1: family chaos? The question is, Jesse, what do you do next?

515
00:24:43,502 --> 00:24:46,181
Speaker 2: Look to be clear, it's Lucra and I trying to

516
00:24:46,182 --> 00:24:48,421
Speaker 2: get on your holidays most of the time, rather than

517
00:24:48,422 --> 00:24:51,061
Speaker 2: you're trying to get on ours. My first reaction to

518
00:24:51,101 --> 00:24:53,982
Speaker 2: this was free childcare. Like, it does sound like she's around.

519
00:24:54,422 --> 00:24:56,262
Speaker 2: You could go and get a cocktail with your husband,

520
00:24:56,302 --> 00:24:59,821
Speaker 2: which is nice. I don't know how you say no.

521
00:25:00,141 --> 00:25:02,861
Speaker 2: I don't know how once she's booked it and she's coming,

522
00:25:03,502 --> 00:25:06,222
Speaker 2: how you just create that conflict. I wouldn't know how

523
00:25:06,222 --> 00:25:06,782
Speaker 2: to deal with it.

524
00:25:07,422 --> 00:25:10,262
Speaker 1: I think you can't amere, can't. You can't.

525
00:25:10,302 --> 00:25:11,302
Speaker 2: It's done, she's coming.

526
00:25:11,381 --> 00:25:14,101
Speaker 1: And I also think maybe the family holiday is ruled.

527
00:25:14,101 --> 00:25:17,622
Speaker 1: I think it's ruined for the person. For the listener,

528
00:25:17,782 --> 00:25:20,502
Speaker 1: I understand that it's not the holiday that she wanted.

529
00:25:20,581 --> 00:25:21,782
Speaker 3: It's about her expectations.

530
00:25:21,942 --> 00:25:25,542
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I think it's a matter of resetting expectations

531
00:25:25,581 --> 00:25:29,061
Speaker 1: and finding ways to milk the hell out of the

532
00:25:29,061 --> 00:25:30,262
Speaker 1: mother in law being around.

533
00:25:30,341 --> 00:25:33,502
Speaker 3: And you're right, like, take a nice dinner out with

534
00:25:33,621 --> 00:25:35,621
Speaker 3: your husband. What she wouldn't have gotten to have if

535
00:25:35,661 --> 00:25:36,782
Speaker 3: she wasn't there, Or.

536
00:25:36,702 --> 00:25:38,421
Speaker 2: She sounds kind pissed off at her husband. So let

537
00:25:38,462 --> 00:25:40,502
Speaker 2: your mother in law, your husband, and the two kids

538
00:25:40,502 --> 00:25:42,061
Speaker 2: have a holiday and have your own holiday.

539
00:25:42,101 --> 00:25:44,782
Speaker 1: Go have a spa day, Go do a soft dray set. Yeah,

540
00:25:44,901 --> 00:25:45,942
Speaker 1: get a travel tattoo.

541
00:25:46,022 --> 00:25:48,901
Speaker 2: I love it. Out loud is what would you do next?

542
00:25:49,022 --> 00:25:51,782
Speaker 2: Share your thoughts in the mummea out loud Facebook group

543
00:25:51,861 --> 00:25:54,302
Speaker 2: and if you have a dilemma, please send it to

544
00:25:54,381 --> 00:25:56,821
Speaker 2: us at out loud at mummea dot com dot au.

545
00:25:56,982 --> 00:25:58,141
Speaker 2: We would love to help you.

546
00:25:58,502 --> 00:26:00,742
Speaker 1: We know those mother in law questions are very popular,

547
00:26:00,942 --> 00:26:04,141
Speaker 1: so you know that's our special area of expertise, isn't it, Jesse.

548
00:26:04,141 --> 00:26:05,621
Speaker 2: Can we come to Copenhagen with you?

549
00:26:05,782 --> 00:26:10,622
Speaker 1: Yeah? No, go away? Okay.

550
00:26:10,702 --> 00:26:13,381
Speaker 3: I want to tell you about a thing called the

551
00:26:13,462 --> 00:26:16,901
Speaker 3: lemon lore, and it comes up originally in dating, but

552
00:26:17,061 --> 00:26:20,101
Speaker 3: I'm finding myself increasingly able to apply it to all

553
00:26:20,141 --> 00:26:22,821
Speaker 3: sorts of areas of my life. I think a good

554
00:26:22,861 --> 00:26:24,502
Speaker 3: way to illustrate it is by telling you a little

555
00:26:24,502 --> 00:26:26,582
Speaker 3: bit of a story. And it's a true story. It's

556
00:26:26,581 --> 00:26:32,821
Speaker 3: about a TikToker named Mac Mak. She she was really

557
00:26:32,821 --> 00:26:34,861
Speaker 3: excited to go on a date with a guy called Josh.

558
00:26:34,861 --> 00:26:37,022
Speaker 3: He was an electrician. I'm just throwing in that detail

559
00:26:37,101 --> 00:26:38,942
Speaker 3: so you can sort of picture Josh in your head.

560
00:26:39,022 --> 00:26:40,222
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it gives us some color.

561
00:26:40,341 --> 00:26:41,542
Speaker 3: Exactly what did Mac do?

562
00:26:41,702 --> 00:26:42,342
Speaker 2: He's handy.

563
00:26:42,581 --> 00:26:44,742
Speaker 3: Mac's a TikToker. I don't know if that's her profession

564
00:26:44,821 --> 00:26:47,421
Speaker 3: or what, but she was really excited to go on

565
00:26:47,422 --> 00:26:49,381
Speaker 3: the state. She even like did the thing where you

566
00:26:49,422 --> 00:26:52,141
Speaker 3: get out the diceon and you like straighten the hair,

567
00:26:52,581 --> 00:26:55,101
Speaker 3: she put on the makeup. Now, Josh had to drive

568
00:26:55,182 --> 00:26:57,542
Speaker 3: forty minutes to pick her up. Maybe he lives in

569
00:26:57,581 --> 00:27:00,661
Speaker 3: another town or something. He pulls into her driveway, she

570
00:27:00,702 --> 00:27:03,462
Speaker 3: grabs a purse, she runs down the stairs, she gets

571
00:27:03,462 --> 00:27:05,901
Speaker 3: in the car to drive to dinner, and five minutes

572
00:27:05,982 --> 00:27:09,222
Speaker 3: later they're pulling up into her driveway again and he's

573
00:27:09,262 --> 00:27:12,141
Speaker 3: dropped her off. The date has ended five minutes into it.

574
00:27:12,462 --> 00:27:15,262
Speaker 3: Mac was really devastated by this, and I totally understand

575
00:27:15,262 --> 00:27:18,022
Speaker 3: that she went on TikTok, and she told her followers,

576
00:27:18,182 --> 00:27:20,741
Speaker 3: I'm never attempting to put myself out there again. And

577
00:27:20,821 --> 00:27:23,341
Speaker 3: you know what, fair, Mac, Fair like that sounds like

578
00:27:23,381 --> 00:27:27,382
Speaker 3: a really upsetting experience. But what happened next is interesting

579
00:27:27,942 --> 00:27:31,382
Speaker 3: because rather than just everyone agreed this was unacceptable, there

580
00:27:31,381 --> 00:27:33,542
Speaker 3: started to be a schism in the comments and some

581
00:27:33,581 --> 00:27:36,421
Speaker 3: people were saying that this was in fact the Lemon

582
00:27:36,502 --> 00:27:39,942
Speaker 3: law in action. The Lemon law is something that comes

583
00:27:40,101 --> 00:27:41,982
Speaker 3: from How I Met your Mother. I mean, I didn't

584
00:27:42,022 --> 00:27:44,222
Speaker 3: think anything came from that TV show, but this comes

585
00:27:44,262 --> 00:27:46,982
Speaker 3: from that TV show. And the idea is that from

586
00:27:46,982 --> 00:27:50,021
Speaker 3: the moment a date begins, you have five minutes to

587
00:27:50,101 --> 00:27:52,542
Speaker 3: decide whether you're going to commit to it or not.

588
00:27:52,982 --> 00:27:54,462
Speaker 2: Wow, that's brutal.

589
00:27:54,621 --> 00:27:56,702
Speaker 1: Can we just go back to Mac in the car?

590
00:27:57,462 --> 00:27:59,581
Speaker 1: Do we know what happened in the car in those

591
00:27:59,621 --> 00:28:00,542
Speaker 1: first five minutes?

592
00:28:00,702 --> 00:28:04,381
Speaker 3: Unfortunately it's a TikTok. So I wasn't able to ask

593
00:28:04,422 --> 00:28:07,902
Speaker 3: any follow ups to Mac. But people in the comments

594
00:28:07,901 --> 00:28:10,101
Speaker 3: were like not surprised by this. There was not a

595
00:28:10,141 --> 00:28:12,221
Speaker 3: lot of sympathy for it. People like this is the

596
00:28:12,302 --> 00:28:14,861
Speaker 3: lemon law in action. You gotta deal with it. Like

597
00:28:15,061 --> 00:28:17,101
Speaker 3: why is it called the lemon law because in the

598
00:28:17,222 --> 00:28:20,302
Speaker 3: US there's some laws around being able to return used

599
00:28:20,341 --> 00:28:21,902
Speaker 3: cars when they're they're lemons.

600
00:28:22,101 --> 00:28:24,542
Speaker 1: Wow. I thought it was because the minute that you

601
00:28:24,742 --> 00:28:26,341
Speaker 1: put it in your mouth, you're like, oh.

602
00:28:26,302 --> 00:28:27,262
Speaker 3: Well that works too.

603
00:28:27,502 --> 00:28:30,302
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I think it's ruthless in dated you know?

604
00:28:30,422 --> 00:28:32,341
Speaker 3: Okay, So first of all I want to ask you both,

605
00:28:32,462 --> 00:28:34,702
Speaker 3: like is that okay in dating? And then I want

606
00:28:34,742 --> 00:28:36,902
Speaker 3: to like throw some other scenarios at you and get

607
00:28:36,982 --> 00:28:37,501
Speaker 3: your reaction.

608
00:28:37,621 --> 00:28:42,461
Speaker 2: I think it's completely inappropriate and mean and rude. I

609
00:28:42,542 --> 00:28:45,622
Speaker 2: disagree if you stick with someone for longer than five minutes, Like,

610
00:28:45,661 --> 00:28:47,382
Speaker 2: what's the worst it's going to do. It's different if

611
00:28:47,382 --> 00:28:51,181
Speaker 2: the person's racist or something, but if the person's just

612
00:28:51,502 --> 00:28:53,181
Speaker 2: not someone you think you're going to marry. Oh, you

613
00:28:53,262 --> 00:28:55,142
Speaker 2: might have a conversation with someone.

614
00:28:54,902 --> 00:28:58,982
Speaker 3: Both your times and I have how taliable. But when

615
00:28:59,422 --> 00:29:02,862
Speaker 3: when you meet someone you are lying if you say

616
00:29:02,862 --> 00:29:05,902
Speaker 3: that you don't basically immediately know whether you're going to

617
00:29:05,902 --> 00:29:08,422
Speaker 3: get along with them or not particularly romantically, because it's

618
00:29:08,422 --> 00:29:10,181
Speaker 3: all about the chemistry and the get along with them

619
00:29:10,262 --> 00:29:12,382
Speaker 3: or want to have sex cramones because they're different.

620
00:29:12,462 --> 00:29:15,022
Speaker 2: Yeah, and don't you reckon, Amelia. I think about myself

621
00:29:15,302 --> 00:29:17,702
Speaker 2: the first five minutes of a date, the worst version

622
00:29:17,742 --> 00:29:19,062
Speaker 2: of myself. Like, I'm not.

623
00:29:19,342 --> 00:29:22,542
Speaker 3: Sorry, Jessie, but dating is not a charity like lucky,

624
00:29:24,342 --> 00:29:25,862
Speaker 3: it's about finding compatibility.

625
00:29:25,982 --> 00:29:26,062
Speaker 1: Me.

626
00:29:26,302 --> 00:29:27,022
Speaker 3: Where are you on this?

627
00:29:27,942 --> 00:29:32,501
Speaker 1: Wow? I think it's really really interesting. All I can

628
00:29:32,502 --> 00:29:34,902
Speaker 1: say about Max is that it's lucky that she didn't

629
00:29:34,982 --> 00:29:39,662
Speaker 1: drive the forty minutes. That's true. I mean it's very brutal.

630
00:29:40,262 --> 00:29:44,822
Speaker 1: I can understand making the decision in your own head. Yeah,

631
00:29:44,942 --> 00:29:48,302
Speaker 1: but look, I also think Max's future is freed because

632
00:29:48,302 --> 00:29:51,182
Speaker 1: someone who would be that callous she would not want

633
00:29:51,222 --> 00:29:51,582
Speaker 1: to be with.

634
00:29:51,822 --> 00:29:54,302
Speaker 3: Okay, but I want to push back on this idea

635
00:29:54,342 --> 00:29:56,862
Speaker 3: that you're necessarily callous if you practice the Lemon law.

636
00:29:57,102 --> 00:29:59,142
Speaker 3: So when I was dating, the thing that I found

637
00:29:59,142 --> 00:30:02,022
Speaker 3: the most awful about it is that you go out

638
00:30:02,062 --> 00:30:04,701
Speaker 3: with someone and in an effort to move the conversation

639
00:30:04,862 --> 00:30:07,941
Speaker 3: along and get through two drinks together. Because that's what

640
00:30:08,102 --> 00:30:11,462
Speaker 3: usually the duration of a date. Two drinks, You've got

641
00:30:11,502 --> 00:30:14,462
Speaker 3: to volunteer a lot of stuff about yourself because that's

642
00:30:14,582 --> 00:30:17,382
Speaker 3: just how conversation works over the court, Like two drinks

643
00:30:17,422 --> 00:30:18,782
Speaker 3: is basically ninety minutes.

644
00:30:18,822 --> 00:30:20,782
Speaker 1: Let's say in the first five it depends on fast

645
00:30:20,782 --> 00:30:22,622
Speaker 1: you drink, but in the first five minutes you've got a.

646
00:30:22,742 --> 00:30:25,822
Speaker 3: But my point is that you go for those two drinks,

647
00:30:25,942 --> 00:30:28,222
Speaker 3: you kind of know from the get go that it's

648
00:30:28,222 --> 00:30:32,622
Speaker 3: not going to work. You end up going home drunk, tired,

649
00:30:33,102 --> 00:30:37,502
Speaker 3: and crucially like you've given too much of yourself. You've

650
00:30:37,702 --> 00:30:41,222
Speaker 3: disclosed too much in the name of just simple politeness.

651
00:30:41,342 --> 00:30:42,942
Speaker 1: So you're also emotionally vulnerable.

652
00:30:43,062 --> 00:30:46,502
Speaker 2: Yes, I appreciate that, but I would also say that

653
00:30:46,661 --> 00:30:49,701
Speaker 2: if I'd given my husband five minutes, I might have left,

654
00:30:50,062 --> 00:30:53,622
Speaker 2: like I might have left on really basic, superficial things

655
00:30:54,062 --> 00:30:56,742
Speaker 2: in the same way I would have swiped the wrong

656
00:30:56,902 --> 00:30:59,382
Speaker 2: way on him, like I don't believe in love at

657
00:30:59,382 --> 00:31:00,742
Speaker 2: first sight. For a lot of people, A lot of

658
00:31:00,782 --> 00:31:02,862
Speaker 2: people say it took a long time to warm up.

659
00:31:03,342 --> 00:31:05,622
Speaker 2: Sometimes I reckon, you need more than five minutes. However,

660
00:31:05,742 --> 00:31:08,462
Speaker 2: what I do agree with you on is that that

661
00:31:08,542 --> 00:31:11,542
Speaker 2: first date needs to be either a single coffee or

662
00:31:11,582 --> 00:31:15,142
Speaker 2: a single drink. A single coffee, yeah, I just because

663
00:31:15,182 --> 00:31:17,262
Speaker 2: I think it's the meal. It's when you sit down

664
00:31:17,342 --> 00:31:20,502
Speaker 2: front and the person orders an entrede and you go,

665
00:31:20,702 --> 00:31:21,742
Speaker 2: this is a waste of time.

666
00:31:21,822 --> 00:31:25,542
Speaker 3: And even one drink or one coffee, you're gonna end

667
00:31:25,622 --> 00:31:29,102
Speaker 3: up talking about like your life to this perfect stranger

668
00:31:29,142 --> 00:31:31,062
Speaker 3: who you know you're never going to see again, and

669
00:31:31,102 --> 00:31:33,941
Speaker 3: at the end of it, you feel really exposed, and

670
00:31:34,062 --> 00:31:36,502
Speaker 3: you you end up feeling like you've given too much

671
00:31:36,502 --> 00:31:39,782
Speaker 3: of yourself to a perfect stranger who probably decided in

672
00:31:39,782 --> 00:31:41,382
Speaker 3: the first five minutes that he never wanted to see

673
00:31:41,422 --> 00:31:41,822
Speaker 3: me again.

674
00:31:41,982 --> 00:31:44,182
Speaker 1: Can I ask about what happens in the flip way,

675
00:31:44,302 --> 00:31:46,582
Speaker 1: because there are a lot of people that can put

676
00:31:46,622 --> 00:31:49,702
Speaker 1: on a good game for five minutes or nineteen minutes

677
00:31:50,142 --> 00:31:54,862
Speaker 1: or two weeks or even three months, and then you

678
00:31:54,942 --> 00:31:58,262
Speaker 1: see what they're really like. So the Lemon law certainly

679
00:31:58,342 --> 00:32:01,661
Speaker 1: doesn't help reward that. It rewards that.

680
00:32:01,822 --> 00:32:04,181
Speaker 2: It awards people who can turn on a quick little

681
00:32:04,182 --> 00:32:05,062
Speaker 2: stand up performance.

682
00:32:06,182 --> 00:32:09,262
Speaker 3: More rewards people who can turn on a quick performance.

683
00:32:09,262 --> 00:32:12,062
Speaker 1: For I wish what if you're a bit introverted, what

684
00:32:12,102 --> 00:32:14,302
Speaker 1: if you're a bit shy? Like I know a lot

685
00:32:14,302 --> 00:32:18,782
Speaker 1: of people who had bad first dates and things improved well.

686
00:32:18,782 --> 00:32:22,102
Speaker 3: I don't think no individuals necessarily expecting the person that

687
00:32:22,142 --> 00:32:24,421
Speaker 3: are on a date with to start tap dancing in

688
00:32:24,462 --> 00:32:26,461
Speaker 3: the first five minutes. But in the first five minutes.

689
00:32:26,542 --> 00:32:29,622
Speaker 3: It's not saying like, if you're shy, then by definition

690
00:32:29,702 --> 00:32:32,781
Speaker 3: someone's going to leave. I think it's about compatibility, and

691
00:32:32,822 --> 00:32:35,182
Speaker 3: that's something that you can kind of sense.

692
00:32:35,262 --> 00:32:36,222
Speaker 2: Did you ever do it?

693
00:32:36,422 --> 00:32:37,662
Speaker 1: Did you? I wish I.

694
00:32:37,661 --> 00:32:40,582
Speaker 3: Had, because that's what really I found the most emotionally

695
00:32:40,661 --> 00:32:43,382
Speaker 3: draining thing about putting myself out there again and again

696
00:32:43,502 --> 00:32:47,062
Speaker 3: was this feeling of like too many people know too

697
00:32:47,142 --> 00:32:49,741
Speaker 3: much stuff about me that they never needed to know.

698
00:32:50,742 --> 00:32:53,622
Speaker 1: You know, Malcolm Gladwell has this thing that he calls

699
00:32:53,661 --> 00:32:56,702
Speaker 1: thin slicing. It was in one of his books and

700
00:32:57,222 --> 00:32:59,502
Speaker 1: he says it's something that we all do all the time,

701
00:32:59,542 --> 00:33:02,102
Speaker 1: which is exactly sounds like this Lemon law. Right. It

702
00:33:02,222 --> 00:33:08,022
Speaker 1: is when you meet someone and you make very quick assumptions,

703
00:33:08,422 --> 00:33:11,102
Speaker 1: and the thin slicing, it's kind of like you take

704
00:33:11,142 --> 00:33:14,062
Speaker 1: a thin slice of I'm not good with I think

705
00:33:14,942 --> 00:33:17,422
Speaker 1: presumably yeah, I'm not big on deli meats, but like

706
00:33:17,622 --> 00:33:20,142
Speaker 1: a thin slice, you get the taste of it. Right,

707
00:33:20,222 --> 00:33:22,421
Speaker 1: So if you're sampling something, But what we do is

708
00:33:22,422 --> 00:33:23,422
Speaker 1: we do it automatically.

709
00:33:23,542 --> 00:33:24,622
Speaker 3: And is he saying that's good.

710
00:33:24,902 --> 00:33:26,502
Speaker 1: He's not saying it's good about it. That it's just

711
00:33:26,542 --> 00:33:29,622
Speaker 1: what we do. It's about making snap judgments. Now, sometimes

712
00:33:29,661 --> 00:33:32,662
Speaker 1: they're wrong, but usually they're when you thin slice without

713
00:33:32,702 --> 00:33:36,622
Speaker 1: even realizing it. Oftentimes will say I feel funny in

714
00:33:36,661 --> 00:33:39,582
Speaker 1: my gut, or I've got a good gut feeling. So

715
00:33:39,622 --> 00:33:41,302
Speaker 1: we all often talk about our gut, right, And what

716
00:33:41,742 --> 00:33:44,062
Speaker 1: a gut means is really just all your thoughts and

717
00:33:44,342 --> 00:33:48,822
Speaker 1: your experiences and knowledge up until that point in your

718
00:33:48,862 --> 00:33:53,382
Speaker 1: life enables us to make quick judgments because prehistorically, when

719
00:33:53,422 --> 00:33:56,862
Speaker 1: you were in the wilderness and whatever you couldn't just

720
00:33:56,902 --> 00:33:58,502
Speaker 1: go you know what, I'm just going to give this.

721
00:33:58,422 --> 00:34:01,181
Speaker 2: So that my theory about the Lemon law is that

722
00:34:01,262 --> 00:34:03,822
Speaker 2: it is perfect for people who trust their gut. You know,

723
00:34:03,862 --> 00:34:07,582
Speaker 2: people are a really strong gut feeling that they just know,

724
00:34:07,862 --> 00:34:11,462
Speaker 2: and they're quite impulsive, but they trust themselves. I don't

725
00:34:11,502 --> 00:34:13,661
Speaker 2: have that. I don't trust my gun at all, and

726
00:34:13,702 --> 00:34:14,982
Speaker 2: so I like to question it.

727
00:34:15,102 --> 00:34:17,341
Speaker 3: And that's why you're saying, if you and Luca had

728
00:34:17,422 --> 00:34:19,462
Speaker 3: met through like a dating app and you'd use the

729
00:34:19,502 --> 00:34:20,861
Speaker 3: Lemon law, you probably would have.

730
00:34:21,022 --> 00:34:25,381
Speaker 2: Exactly exactly, and same with lots of experiences, whether it's

731
00:34:25,382 --> 00:34:29,622
Speaker 2: a friendship or a job interview or a whatever. Like

732
00:34:30,302 --> 00:34:33,142
Speaker 2: I think I'd have made the wrong decision. But maybe

733
00:34:33,142 --> 00:34:35,301
Speaker 2: if you back yourself a bit more, then maybe the

734
00:34:35,342 --> 00:34:37,302
Speaker 2: type of person who could me you seem to trust

735
00:34:37,302 --> 00:34:37,661
Speaker 2: your gun.

736
00:34:37,781 --> 00:34:40,182
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's often and wrong. Yeah, you'self and wrong.

737
00:34:40,342 --> 00:34:42,582
Speaker 3: I want to broaden this out and ask about other

738
00:34:42,741 --> 00:34:45,861
Speaker 3: life scenarios and whether we think it's more or less acceptable.

739
00:34:45,902 --> 00:34:48,301
Speaker 3: And the first example that springs to mine is books.

740
00:34:48,701 --> 00:34:50,941
Speaker 3: Do you have to finish a book that you pick

741
00:34:51,022 --> 00:34:53,142
Speaker 3: up or can you read the first chapter and say

742
00:34:53,181 --> 00:34:53,861
Speaker 3: it aside.

743
00:34:53,542 --> 00:34:55,142
Speaker 2: My Lemon law books all the time.

744
00:34:55,302 --> 00:34:56,942
Speaker 1: I do not have time.

745
00:34:56,781 --> 00:34:59,181
Speaker 2: To and you know what, I'm probably am wrong sometimes

746
00:34:59,221 --> 00:35:01,902
Speaker 2: like where I just go, I'm not going to invest

747
00:35:01,942 --> 00:35:02,461
Speaker 2: any more time.

748
00:35:02,462 --> 00:35:04,342
Speaker 1: It's hard, though, isn't it? Because I hate the first

749
00:35:04,342 --> 00:35:06,821
Speaker 1: two chapters of every book I've ever read, because I

750
00:35:06,862 --> 00:35:11,142
Speaker 1: hate having to learn new characters world. I just want

751
00:35:11,142 --> 00:35:13,022
Speaker 1: to be in it. I want to have that flow.

752
00:35:13,741 --> 00:35:16,301
Speaker 1: But my kindle should actually just be called Lemon Law

753
00:35:16,342 --> 00:35:19,982
Speaker 1: because it is just full and I think sometimes.

754
00:35:19,542 --> 00:35:21,982
Speaker 2: I get one page in I go don't like the writing, well,

755
00:35:21,982 --> 00:35:22,902
Speaker 2: that character.

756
00:35:23,142 --> 00:35:26,701
Speaker 1: It's right because it's like scroll, scroll, not interested two seconds.

757
00:35:26,822 --> 00:35:28,821
Speaker 1: We know this from working in social media. You have

758
00:35:28,902 --> 00:35:32,181
Speaker 1: to grab people in the first paragraph. And that's why

759
00:35:32,502 --> 00:35:36,741
Speaker 1: writing online has really changed writing and reporting in journalism,

760
00:35:36,982 --> 00:35:38,821
Speaker 1: because it used to be that you could sidle up

761
00:35:38,862 --> 00:35:41,421
Speaker 1: to a point in a written article, and now you can't.

762
00:35:41,462 --> 00:35:42,781
Speaker 1: You've got to get it in the first.

763
00:35:42,741 --> 00:35:45,861
Speaker 2: I say to Luka with television shows, I'm like, we're

764
00:35:45,862 --> 00:35:47,462
Speaker 2: going to give it ten minutes. We're going to give

765
00:35:47,502 --> 00:35:49,622
Speaker 2: it exactly ten minutes. More to side, Amelia, do you

766
00:35:49,661 --> 00:35:50,301
Speaker 2: Lemon Law books?

767
00:35:50,342 --> 00:35:52,701
Speaker 3: Yeah, I've got a caveat on Lemon Louring books and

768
00:35:52,781 --> 00:35:55,421
Speaker 3: a bit of clickbait. Later on in this episode, I'm

769
00:35:55,462 --> 00:35:58,221
Speaker 3: going to recommend a book that I wanted to lemon

770
00:35:58,302 --> 00:36:01,582
Speaker 3: law and didn't, So I actually think with books there's

771
00:36:01,701 --> 00:36:04,261
Speaker 3: less of a strong argument that you should be able

772
00:36:04,302 --> 00:36:06,741
Speaker 3: to lemon law, because really writers should be given the

773
00:36:06,781 --> 00:36:09,542
Speaker 3: respect of trusting that, like, not everything's going to be

774
00:36:09,661 --> 00:36:13,382
Speaker 3: revealed in that first chapter, And particularly with nonfiction books,

775
00:36:13,422 --> 00:36:17,022
Speaker 3: one trap I see is that the first chapter is

776
00:36:17,062 --> 00:36:19,502
Speaker 3: often the chapter that they sold the book on, and

777
00:36:19,542 --> 00:36:21,982
Speaker 3: you can kind of tell because it sort of reads

778
00:36:22,022 --> 00:36:24,341
Speaker 3: like a little bit like a movie trailer. This is

779
00:36:24,382 --> 00:36:26,622
Speaker 3: going to be a book full of intrigue and suspense,

780
00:36:26,661 --> 00:36:29,461
Speaker 3: and it's like selling you on the book. And I'm

781
00:36:29,462 --> 00:36:31,661
Speaker 3: turned off by that, but I understand that that was

782
00:36:31,701 --> 00:36:33,382
Speaker 3: what they needed to sell the book, and I'm going

783
00:36:33,462 --> 00:36:35,421
Speaker 3: to get beyond that that's just a nonfiction thing.

784
00:36:35,542 --> 00:36:37,782
Speaker 1: I just can't imagine looking at someone in the eye

785
00:36:38,342 --> 00:36:42,781
Speaker 1: in the vulnerability of a date and just going you

786
00:36:42,862 --> 00:36:45,102
Speaker 1: know what, Like I can kind of get.

787
00:36:44,781 --> 00:36:48,742
Speaker 3: The same day point that it's actually potentially a kind

788
00:36:48,741 --> 00:36:51,021
Speaker 3: of thing to do, because it means that this person

789
00:36:51,142 --> 00:36:54,542
Speaker 3: sitting opposite you isn't just disclosing all this information about

790
00:36:54,542 --> 00:36:56,862
Speaker 3: themselves and opening themselves up to you when you've already

791
00:36:56,862 --> 00:36:57,942
Speaker 3: decided you're not interested.

792
00:36:58,102 --> 00:37:01,462
Speaker 1: Yeah, but all that you can think is I must

793
00:37:01,502 --> 00:37:04,022
Speaker 1: look terrible because you know in five minutes.

794
00:37:04,062 --> 00:37:06,622
Speaker 3: That's why it's five minutes, not five seconds. Like I

795
00:37:06,701 --> 00:37:08,861
Speaker 3: have a friend who tells a horrible story about when

796
00:37:08,862 --> 00:37:11,102
Speaker 3: she went on a day and she was sitting at

797
00:37:11,142 --> 00:37:13,701
Speaker 3: a long bar and it had big windows out on

798
00:37:13,701 --> 00:37:16,062
Speaker 3: the street, and she was texting with the guy who

799
00:37:16,102 --> 00:37:18,821
Speaker 3: she had met on an app or something, and it

800
00:37:18,942 --> 00:37:21,302
Speaker 3: was clear that he showed up to the restaurant, saw

801
00:37:21,342 --> 00:37:23,781
Speaker 3: her and then said like he wasn't going to be

802
00:37:23,822 --> 00:37:26,301
Speaker 3: able to make it. That's not lemon law. That's not

803
00:37:26,422 --> 00:37:29,062
Speaker 3: lemon law. Five minutes is actually a lot of conversation.

804
00:37:29,142 --> 00:37:31,261
Speaker 2: So merely, here's my question. I've actually been in a

805
00:37:31,302 --> 00:37:35,222
Speaker 2: lot of workish situations where I've sat down with someone

806
00:37:35,302 --> 00:37:39,221
Speaker 2: in a professional capacity to talk about something, and I

807
00:37:39,302 --> 00:37:44,622
Speaker 2: have known within two minutes that I can tell interviews

808
00:37:44,862 --> 00:37:46,102
Speaker 2: where I've just gone.

809
00:37:46,302 --> 00:37:49,582
Speaker 3: Oh no, in the first five minutes.

810
00:37:51,942 --> 00:37:55,102
Speaker 2: So in that situation, I'm imagining, you know, I'm sitting

811
00:37:55,181 --> 00:37:57,701
Speaker 2: in a cafe or whatever, what am I meant to

812
00:37:57,822 --> 00:37:59,422
Speaker 2: say when the five minutes is up?

813
00:38:00,502 --> 00:38:01,142
Speaker 1: So that's why.

814
00:38:01,181 --> 00:38:03,301
Speaker 3: I think it's different for different scenarios. I think that

815
00:38:03,382 --> 00:38:05,861
Speaker 3: with job interviews there is less of a reason to

816
00:38:05,942 --> 00:38:08,982
Speaker 3: do it because the person sitting opposite you, Yes, they

817
00:38:09,062 --> 00:38:11,062
Speaker 3: put a suit on and they're spending half an hour

818
00:38:11,142 --> 00:38:14,822
Speaker 3: with you, but no one's disclosing personal information. No one's

819
00:38:14,902 --> 00:38:16,942
Speaker 3: opening up in a way that will make them feel

820
00:38:17,022 --> 00:38:19,181
Speaker 3: vulnerable and hurt afterwards. What do you think, ma'a?

821
00:38:19,261 --> 00:38:23,022
Speaker 1: I just want to always try and treat people with kindness.

822
00:38:22,661 --> 00:38:25,462
Speaker 3: And I think job interviews it's important to just sit

823
00:38:25,542 --> 00:38:25,861
Speaker 3: it out.

824
00:38:25,902 --> 00:38:27,542
Speaker 2: So how about the date though? How about if I

825
00:38:27,582 --> 00:38:29,142
Speaker 2: show up on the date and I go, Nah, this

826
00:38:29,261 --> 00:38:31,261
Speaker 2: isn't for me and I'm five minutes in. What am

827
00:38:31,302 --> 00:38:32,502
Speaker 2: I saying to get out?

828
00:38:32,701 --> 00:38:35,221
Speaker 3: I don't know because I've never I've never done it

829
00:38:35,382 --> 00:38:36,062
Speaker 3: like this is.

830
00:38:36,102 --> 00:38:39,462
Speaker 2: New Lennon lawing you or am I making an emergency?

831
00:38:39,542 --> 00:38:42,221
Speaker 3: And Mac was clearly very upset, And I don't want

832
00:38:42,261 --> 00:38:44,622
Speaker 3: to minimize that at all. Like maybe there isn't a

833
00:38:44,661 --> 00:38:46,382
Speaker 3: way to do it that's that's kind.

834
00:38:46,622 --> 00:38:47,821
Speaker 2: I would feel, Oh.

835
00:38:47,781 --> 00:38:50,982
Speaker 1: No, there isn't clear, there is no way to do

836
00:38:51,102 --> 00:38:54,502
Speaker 1: it in a way that's kind. It feels dismissive, it

837
00:38:54,542 --> 00:38:56,262
Speaker 1: feels clinically efficient.

838
00:38:56,342 --> 00:38:59,301
Speaker 3: Even if it's like ultimately better for you, it's still

839
00:38:59,342 --> 00:39:01,741
Speaker 3: going to hurt so much more in the moment, isn't it.

840
00:39:02,542 --> 00:39:04,861
Speaker 1: After the break, I need to tell you about a

841
00:39:04,942 --> 00:39:06,342
Speaker 1: sheep and his name is Kevin.

842
00:39:07,422 --> 00:39:10,742
Speaker 2: Every Tuesday and Thursday, we drop new segments of MUMMYA

843
00:39:10,781 --> 00:39:14,301
Speaker 2: Out Loud just for MUMMYA subscribers. Follow the link in

844
00:39:14,342 --> 00:39:16,662
Speaker 2: the show notes to get your daily doseph out Loud

845
00:39:16,902 --> 00:39:21,462
Speaker 2: and a big thank you to all our current subscribers.

846
00:39:26,902 --> 00:39:31,821
Speaker 1: Vibes ideas, atmosphere, something casual, something fun. This is my

847
00:39:31,902 --> 00:39:35,861
Speaker 1: best recommendation. It's Friday, so we're going to help set

848
00:39:35,942 --> 00:39:39,142
Speaker 1: up your weekend with our best recommendations. I'm going to

849
00:39:39,181 --> 00:39:41,142
Speaker 1: go first, and I've got two because I haven't been

850
00:39:41,181 --> 00:39:45,062
Speaker 1: here for a while. Okay, the first I discovered last night.

851
00:39:45,261 --> 00:39:49,261
Speaker 1: It is Kevin the sheep, and I will have it.

852
00:39:49,221 --> 00:39:51,022
Speaker 2: On the record before you go into this that you've

853
00:39:51,062 --> 00:39:53,022
Speaker 2: been calling him a goat all morning and you needed

854
00:39:53,062 --> 00:39:55,862
Speaker 2: to be fact checked. And someone said in the script

855
00:39:55,942 --> 00:39:57,582
Speaker 2: I just saw a note that was maya, this is

856
00:39:57,622 --> 00:39:58,022
Speaker 2: a sheep.

857
00:39:58,142 --> 00:40:01,821
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a furry, like an animal with anyway, it's

858
00:40:01,862 --> 00:40:04,542
Speaker 1: an animal on a farm. Apologies, we're all out louders.

859
00:40:05,741 --> 00:40:09,301
Speaker 1: Kevin the sheep is owned by a woman whose name

860
00:40:09,342 --> 00:40:11,182
Speaker 1: I no. She's a young woman. She's in New Zealand,

861
00:40:11,221 --> 00:40:14,181
Speaker 1: I assume by her accent. Her account is called Lunatic

862
00:40:14,261 --> 00:40:20,822
Speaker 1: Dot Asylum six and she rescues unwanted sheep and land.

863
00:40:21,142 --> 00:40:23,941
Speaker 1: She's got about five or six and she's got one

864
00:40:24,022 --> 00:40:27,501
Speaker 1: called Kevin, who she's had since he was little. And

865
00:40:27,701 --> 00:40:32,261
Speaker 1: Kevin is really cranky, and Kevin tries to head butt her,

866
00:40:32,622 --> 00:40:35,701
Speaker 1: but like all the time, Kevin is a really naughty sheep,

867
00:40:36,142 --> 00:40:38,622
Speaker 1: and it's just funny, Like she'll just be trying to

868
00:40:38,661 --> 00:40:42,422
Speaker 1: feed the sheep and Kevin, she'll just go have a listen.

869
00:40:43,422 --> 00:40:45,502
Speaker 1: I can tell he's in a violent mood this morning.

870
00:40:45,942 --> 00:40:50,542
Speaker 2: I may it.

871
00:40:55,462 --> 00:40:57,062
Speaker 1: Is so good, you can't. I mean, I know this

872
00:40:57,142 --> 00:40:59,502
Speaker 1: is not a visual meeting, but Kevin is like chasing

873
00:40:59,542 --> 00:41:01,701
Speaker 1: her around the paddock trying to ahead butt her. It

874
00:41:01,822 --> 00:41:03,861
Speaker 1: just made me laugh so much. I think we all

875
00:41:03,902 --> 00:41:05,862
Speaker 1: need a little bit of mindless distraction at the moment.

876
00:41:06,661 --> 00:41:10,942
Speaker 2: Remember our former producer Liza Ratlift, her family who weren't regional.

877
00:41:11,902 --> 00:41:15,582
Speaker 2: They adopted a cow who lost its mum and dad

878
00:41:16,221 --> 00:41:19,821
Speaker 2: named Joe. And remember Joe. We followed Joe's updates, and

879
00:41:19,982 --> 00:41:23,622
Speaker 2: Joe believed because Joe was looked after and fed, and

880
00:41:23,661 --> 00:41:26,622
Speaker 2: they looked after Joe, Joe thought he was a dog.

881
00:41:27,102 --> 00:41:30,062
Speaker 2: So Joe lived on the Verandah behaved like a dog.

882
00:41:30,622 --> 00:41:33,142
Speaker 2: And then when they tried to reunite Joe with other cows,

883
00:41:33,181 --> 00:41:35,301
Speaker 2: he was like, these are cows. Why would I hang

884
00:41:35,342 --> 00:41:36,982
Speaker 2: out with them when I am a dog? It was

885
00:41:37,022 --> 00:41:37,901
Speaker 2: just the lovely.

886
00:41:37,741 --> 00:41:39,941
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I got to attach to Joe, and you know,

887
00:41:40,062 --> 00:41:42,382
Speaker 1: if you live on a farm, you can't get too attached,

888
00:41:42,582 --> 00:41:47,221
Speaker 1: and a different way to the way most dogs do.

889
00:41:47,422 --> 00:41:50,301
Speaker 1: The other thing I wanted to recommend is, you know,

890
00:41:50,382 --> 00:41:52,861
Speaker 1: I've never found a place I can't buy a thing.

891
00:41:53,741 --> 00:41:57,381
Speaker 1: I want to recommend gold hoops from the chemist. Look

892
00:41:57,382 --> 00:42:00,462
Speaker 1: at the ones I'm wearing today. I don't even know

893
00:42:00,462 --> 00:42:02,821
Speaker 1: what the brand is, but you'll know every chemist has them.

894
00:42:02,942 --> 00:42:05,701
Speaker 1: They're like good for sensitive someone.

895
00:42:05,622 --> 00:42:11,462
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, you were just all told that from childhood.

896
00:42:11,502 --> 00:42:13,502
Speaker 1: I know I know that if I were often if

897
00:42:13,502 --> 00:42:15,661
Speaker 1: I wear eares, I've got so many piercings up my

898
00:42:15,741 --> 00:42:20,982
Speaker 1: ears really irritated. They'll get really So these are great standbys,

899
00:42:20,982 --> 00:42:22,982
Speaker 1: and they're just basically they're like twenty two. They come

900
00:42:22,982 --> 00:42:25,102
Speaker 1: in silver too different. They come in silver, they come

901
00:42:25,102 --> 00:42:27,261
Speaker 1: in different sizes, they come in little diamonds. But I

902
00:42:27,302 --> 00:42:31,062
Speaker 1: really like the hoops. They're very basic. I've stocked up

903
00:42:31,102 --> 00:42:33,502
Speaker 1: before I went because I don't want to take any

904
00:42:33,502 --> 00:42:36,221
Speaker 1: fancy jewlry away with me. Hoops from the chemist, Jesse,

905
00:42:36,261 --> 00:42:37,142
Speaker 1: what are you recommending?

906
00:42:37,342 --> 00:42:41,862
Speaker 2: I am recommending the Charlie Sheen documentary that is on Netflix.

907
00:42:41,902 --> 00:42:44,302
Speaker 3: Can you sell this to me? Because I'm not interested.

908
00:42:44,422 --> 00:42:47,142
Speaker 2: I'm so surprised you liked this because I watched it too, Amelia.

909
00:42:47,261 --> 00:42:50,102
Speaker 2: I was with you, and it was actually our producer

910
00:42:50,221 --> 00:42:51,821
Speaker 2: m who was like, I just have a feeling this

911
00:42:51,862 --> 00:42:54,701
Speaker 2: is going to be really good documentary. And I tried

912
00:42:54,741 --> 00:42:57,582
Speaker 2: to convince Luca, who just went, you could not make

913
00:42:57,622 --> 00:42:59,821
Speaker 2: me sit down and watch two hours about child.

914
00:42:59,942 --> 00:43:01,062
Speaker 3: Did you have your pirate.

915
00:43:02,701 --> 00:43:07,501
Speaker 2: I did. I'm already with him, and I went, look,

916
00:43:07,701 --> 00:43:10,542
Speaker 2: let's give it ten minutes. Lemon Lore. It's called aka

917
00:43:11,062 --> 00:43:15,181
Speaker 2: Charlie Sheen, and it's really well made. And in the

918
00:43:15,221 --> 00:43:18,102
Speaker 2: first ten minutes we learned about ten things about Charlie Sheen.

919
00:43:18,142 --> 00:43:18,622
Speaker 1: I didn't know.

920
00:43:18,741 --> 00:43:21,301
Speaker 2: I didn't know his father was Martin Sheen, like I

921
00:43:21,342 --> 00:43:22,261
Speaker 2: knew in the West.

922
00:43:22,502 --> 00:43:26,142
Speaker 3: Yes, I didn't know that about did he know.

923
00:43:26,142 --> 00:43:28,981
Speaker 1: His brother was Emilio Estevez from the Breakfast Club?

924
00:43:29,982 --> 00:43:32,782
Speaker 3: See, I didn't know this was all jen x Law exactly.

925
00:43:33,221 --> 00:43:35,902
Speaker 2: I didn't know any of that. They have John Cryer,

926
00:43:35,902 --> 00:43:37,462
Speaker 2: who's the other one from Two and a half Men,

927
00:43:37,502 --> 00:43:39,542
Speaker 2: which I've never sat down and watched an episode of

928
00:43:39,542 --> 00:43:43,622
Speaker 2: that show, but at the height of Charlie Sheen's addiction,

929
00:43:44,261 --> 00:43:47,462
Speaker 2: he was the highest paid remains the highest paid television

930
00:43:47,462 --> 00:43:49,542
Speaker 2: star of all time two million dollars an episode. Wow,

931
00:43:49,582 --> 00:43:52,381
Speaker 2: that's what they were paying him. John Cryer was being

932
00:43:52,382 --> 00:43:53,622
Speaker 2: paid maybe a third of that.

933
00:43:53,701 --> 00:43:55,661
Speaker 3: I don't even know what John Cryer looks like. And

934
00:43:55,661 --> 00:43:57,261
Speaker 3: he's one of the best paid actors of all time.

935
00:43:57,302 --> 00:44:00,062
Speaker 2: Can you picture Two and a half Men? Yeah, so

936
00:44:00,181 --> 00:44:02,822
Speaker 2: Charlie Sheen. Then there's the kind of straight guy who's

937
00:44:02,862 --> 00:44:04,862
Speaker 2: like a little bit more serious, the geeky looking the

938
00:44:04,862 --> 00:44:08,341
Speaker 2: geeky looking guy, but him talking. He's quite candid and

939
00:44:08,422 --> 00:44:11,221
Speaker 2: open about his experience of working with Sheen during that

940
00:44:11,462 --> 00:44:14,181
Speaker 2: and the tension with someone being paid so much more,

941
00:44:14,221 --> 00:44:17,142
Speaker 2: who was clearly, you know, falling off the track.

942
00:44:17,302 --> 00:44:20,542
Speaker 3: Is he likable Sheen? No?

943
00:44:20,741 --> 00:44:24,542
Speaker 2: I wouldn't say likable, but fascinating, fascinating.

944
00:44:24,622 --> 00:44:26,342
Speaker 1: My favorite. You know, they have all the people that

945
00:44:26,382 --> 00:44:30,181
Speaker 1: they're interviewing. They've got Denise Richards who is now on

946
00:44:30,502 --> 00:44:33,862
Speaker 1: Real Housewives or was, And my favorite one is Sean Penn,

947
00:44:34,261 --> 00:44:36,221
Speaker 1: who was a contemporary of Charlie Sheen, so it was

948
00:44:36,261 --> 00:44:38,421
Speaker 1: like they all grew up together. It was Sheen, Sean Penn,

949
00:44:38,902 --> 00:44:42,342
Speaker 1: Tom Cruise, it was that whole crew, right, And Sean

950
00:44:42,382 --> 00:44:46,582
Speaker 1: Penn just has the most incredible face. He's pretty stoning

951
00:44:46,622 --> 00:44:49,661
Speaker 1: through this whole interview and he's just got this craggy face.

952
00:44:49,701 --> 00:44:52,701
Speaker 1: He's got a cigarette in his hand in every quote

953
00:44:52,741 --> 00:44:54,582
Speaker 1: that they've taken, and it's like they probably did a

954
00:44:54,622 --> 00:44:57,622
Speaker 1: two hour in and he's never without a cigarette in

955
00:44:57,622 --> 00:45:00,741
Speaker 1: his hand, and the way he speaks sort of slowly,

956
00:45:00,982 --> 00:45:05,062
Speaker 1: and he's just so wry, and everyone is like they've

957
00:45:05,062 --> 00:45:07,542
Speaker 1: clearly got a lot of affection for Charlie and it's

958
00:45:07,622 --> 00:45:11,542
Speaker 1: ultimately about addiction, and they're all like he is his

959
00:45:11,661 --> 00:45:14,102
Speaker 1: worst enemy, like he gets in his own way, and

960
00:45:14,181 --> 00:45:16,901
Speaker 1: he was very humble about that too, So no one

961
00:45:17,022 --> 00:45:18,582
Speaker 1: was like doing any spin.

962
00:45:18,982 --> 00:45:21,582
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I think it's a story two of the

963
00:45:21,982 --> 00:45:24,982
Speaker 2: women and children that get left in the wake of

964
00:45:25,102 --> 00:45:28,421
Speaker 2: a man with this level of addiction, And basically it's

965
00:45:28,502 --> 00:45:31,422
Speaker 2: like what happened if you had drug, alcohol, all of

966
00:45:31,462 --> 00:45:34,781
Speaker 2: that addictions, but you were built in a way that

967
00:45:34,862 --> 00:45:37,261
Speaker 2: meant you never fell down, Like physically, he could just

968
00:45:37,382 --> 00:45:39,582
Speaker 2: keep going. Sean pen Is like, this is not what

969
00:45:39,661 --> 00:45:42,661
Speaker 2: drugs do to other people. And so all I knew

970
00:45:42,781 --> 00:45:45,502
Speaker 2: was the twenty eleven winning moment where he just kept

971
00:45:45,502 --> 00:45:47,181
Speaker 2: saying winning, and he kept being on.

972
00:45:47,181 --> 00:45:49,542
Speaker 1: Tiger Blood Yes, and he kept being interview. He had

973
00:45:49,542 --> 00:45:51,781
Speaker 1: a very public meltdown. I don't know if it was

974
00:45:51,942 --> 00:45:53,902
Speaker 1: it was just pre social media, but I remember it

975
00:45:53,902 --> 00:45:57,902
Speaker 1: was the first kind of online in real time. Clearly

976
00:45:58,261 --> 00:46:02,502
Speaker 1: he was having mental issues. He was horribly wasted on drugs,

977
00:46:02,902 --> 00:46:04,941
Speaker 1: and it was really car crashy to.

978
00:46:04,902 --> 00:46:07,142
Speaker 2: Watch and everyone and it was kind of the He

979
00:46:07,181 --> 00:46:10,221
Speaker 2: was the most followed person on Twitter. Everyone was throwing

980
00:46:10,261 --> 00:46:11,462
Speaker 2: a microphone in his face.

981
00:46:11,422 --> 00:46:12,181
Speaker 1: And money at him.

982
00:46:12,221 --> 00:46:14,821
Speaker 2: And he went on a world tour and people showed up.

983
00:46:14,862 --> 00:46:16,342
Speaker 3: What did he do on the tour?

984
00:46:16,542 --> 00:46:20,022
Speaker 2: He needed the money because he would do a show

985
00:46:20,062 --> 00:46:22,622
Speaker 2: where he'd talk about himself, but he was on so

986
00:46:22,942 --> 00:46:25,901
Speaker 2: many drugs that he was barely coherent and all these

987
00:46:25,942 --> 00:46:28,622
Speaker 2: people wanted stories of him and Nick Cage when they

988
00:46:28,661 --> 00:46:31,142
Speaker 2: were young and all the people he dated, and he

989
00:46:31,181 --> 00:46:33,781
Speaker 2: couldn't tell a story. He could barely stand up. So

990
00:46:34,462 --> 00:46:36,902
Speaker 2: there's a point at which he says like I needed

991
00:46:36,942 --> 00:46:40,582
Speaker 2: someone there to tell me to get off the stage,

992
00:46:41,102 --> 00:46:43,942
Speaker 2: which is something I'm usually sympathetic to, but at that

993
00:46:43,942 --> 00:46:46,062
Speaker 2: point in the story, I was like, you have such

994
00:46:46,102 --> 00:46:48,502
Speaker 2: a supportive family and so many supportive friends.

995
00:46:48,661 --> 00:46:49,702
Speaker 1: His father was amazing.

996
00:46:49,822 --> 00:46:52,142
Speaker 2: It was amazing that I was like, at some point,

997
00:46:52,781 --> 00:46:55,942
Speaker 2: this is on you, like you have been so supported

998
00:46:55,942 --> 00:46:58,821
Speaker 2: and like the rehab and everything, but just a fascinating

999
00:46:58,862 --> 00:47:03,382
Speaker 2: story about addiction, about testing positive for HIV, which I

1000
00:47:03,382 --> 00:47:06,981
Speaker 2: don't think any celebrities talked about before. Really well made

1001
00:47:07,462 --> 00:47:09,341
Speaker 2: two Part eight. You don't have to be interested in him,

1002
00:47:09,382 --> 00:47:12,861
Speaker 2: but just as a kind of snapshot of kind of.

1003
00:47:12,942 --> 00:47:15,741
Speaker 1: Yeah, if you're a gen X, so you'll particularly like it.

1004
00:47:15,862 --> 00:47:17,301
Speaker 2: Yeah, how about your Amelia.

1005
00:47:17,382 --> 00:47:19,382
Speaker 3: Well, I've got a book that I was about to

1006
00:47:19,462 --> 00:47:21,982
Speaker 3: lemon Law, and I've been keeping you updated on this

1007
00:47:22,261 --> 00:47:25,221
Speaker 3: because yeah, you lemon Law did and I was like,

1008
00:47:25,221 --> 00:47:27,181
Speaker 3: I'm going to lemon Law it too. But something made

1009
00:47:27,221 --> 00:47:29,582
Speaker 3: me keep going, and I'm so glad I did. It's

1010
00:47:29,622 --> 00:47:30,862
Speaker 3: called Atmosphere.

1011
00:47:31,022 --> 00:47:33,102
Speaker 1: I was at the Taylor Jenkins read this is.

1012
00:47:33,142 --> 00:47:35,942
Speaker 2: The new Taylor Jenkins because I'm excited.

1013
00:47:35,982 --> 00:47:37,901
Speaker 1: I I was so excited that she had no new

1014
00:47:37,902 --> 00:47:39,782
Speaker 1: book out, and then when I heard it was about space,

1015
00:47:39,822 --> 00:47:41,222
Speaker 1: I'm like, all I, I'm.

1016
00:47:41,102 --> 00:47:44,221
Speaker 3: Here to tell you that I felt exactly the same way.

1017
00:47:45,022 --> 00:47:46,781
Speaker 3: But something about the title drew me in.

1018
00:47:46,862 --> 00:47:48,342
Speaker 1: I think it's a really good title.

1019
00:47:48,422 --> 00:47:50,782
Speaker 3: I don't like space either, but I liked the title

1020
00:47:50,902 --> 00:47:53,062
Speaker 3: and I like some of her books, not all of

1021
00:47:53,062 --> 00:47:55,421
Speaker 3: her books by any means, but I decided to give

1022
00:47:55,422 --> 00:47:55,781
Speaker 3: it a go.

1023
00:47:56,181 --> 00:47:59,861
Speaker 1: And I'm the one you like the most. Evelyn Hugo, Yeah,

1024
00:47:59,902 --> 00:48:00,982
Speaker 1: the Seven Lives of Evelyn Here.

1025
00:48:01,221 --> 00:48:02,542
Speaker 3: I like the one about the rock star.

1026
00:48:02,822 --> 00:48:05,422
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, the one that's an interview. It's like playboo

1027
00:48:05,502 --> 00:48:06,502
Speaker 2: Matt dating six.

1028
00:48:06,741 --> 00:48:09,421
Speaker 3: Yes, thank you. This is about a nineteen eighty fourth

1029
00:48:09,542 --> 00:48:12,342
Speaker 3: Space Shuttle mission from NASA, but it's interspersed with a

1030
00:48:12,422 --> 00:48:16,982
Speaker 3: love story that's between two astronauts. There's a bookish astrophysicist

1031
00:48:17,102 --> 00:48:21,182
Speaker 3: called Joan Goodwin and an aeronautical engineer called Vanessa Ford.

1032
00:48:21,221 --> 00:48:23,182
Speaker 3: So yes, it is a love of her between two women,

1033
00:48:23,181 --> 00:48:24,661
Speaker 3: and as far as I know, I think that's the

1034
00:48:24,661 --> 00:48:26,821
Speaker 3: first time that Teller Jenkins read.

1035
00:48:26,942 --> 00:48:29,342
Speaker 2: Has she experimented with it in one.

1036
00:48:29,221 --> 00:48:32,502
Speaker 1: Of her books. We won't say which one. Yeah, okay, okay,

1037
00:48:32,542 --> 00:48:34,022
Speaker 1: I was going to say that seems to be a

1038
00:48:34,062 --> 00:48:34,622
Speaker 1: bit of a theme.

1039
00:48:34,822 --> 00:48:38,462
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, well it's I just loved that it intersperses

1040
00:48:39,102 --> 00:48:41,942
Speaker 3: these two plots. There's the space shuttle mission, which is

1041
00:48:42,062 --> 00:48:46,102
Speaker 3: very suspenseful, and then there's the love story. She's such

1042
00:48:46,142 --> 00:48:49,022
Speaker 3: a good like a masterful writer, because every time you

1043
00:48:49,062 --> 00:48:52,142
Speaker 3: get a little bit bored with one of those two plots,

1044
00:48:52,502 --> 00:48:55,142
Speaker 3: chapter ends, next chapter you're back and the other plot

1045
00:48:55,142 --> 00:48:57,382
Speaker 3: that you're more into. And I admire that kind of

1046
00:48:57,462 --> 00:48:59,582
Speaker 3: ability to keep me turning the pages.

1047
00:49:00,022 --> 00:49:01,821
Speaker 2: I think there's something wrong with me, Amelia. I need

1048
00:49:01,862 --> 00:49:04,062
Speaker 2: to pick it back up, because I have only heard

1049
00:49:04,062 --> 00:49:05,661
Speaker 2: great things about this book, and I feel a lot

1050
00:49:05,661 --> 00:49:06,461
Speaker 2: of shame that I didn't.

1051
00:49:06,502 --> 00:49:08,742
Speaker 1: How far did you get? And why did you I got.

1052
00:49:08,582 --> 00:49:11,622
Speaker 3: Literally half a I just try and finish the chapter

1053
00:49:11,701 --> 00:49:13,782
Speaker 3: you're in because it will take you to the plot

1054
00:49:13,822 --> 00:49:15,901
Speaker 3: that you like more. And then at the end they

1055
00:49:15,942 --> 00:49:18,822
Speaker 3: come together beautifully. And she really does stick the landing.

1056
00:49:19,142 --> 00:49:20,942
Speaker 3: And there's nothing I like better than a book that

1057
00:49:20,982 --> 00:49:21,862
Speaker 3: sticks to the land.

1058
00:49:21,661 --> 00:49:23,941
Speaker 2: Okay, everyone says that, so I think you're right.

1059
00:49:23,982 --> 00:49:25,582
Speaker 1: I need there are a lot of space in it,

1060
00:49:25,822 --> 00:49:28,901
Speaker 1: no belly any Oh, Okay, see I'd read orbit All

1061
00:49:28,942 --> 00:49:31,022
Speaker 1: by Samantha Harvey, which was the world in the book

1062
00:49:31,181 --> 00:49:32,341
Speaker 1: that seems hard to.

1063
00:49:32,342 --> 00:49:34,062
Speaker 2: Read, and that was the best.

1064
00:49:35,102 --> 00:49:35,701
Speaker 1: You loved that.

1065
00:49:36,462 --> 00:49:38,542
Speaker 2: I loved it. It was twenty four hours in space,

1066
00:49:38,862 --> 00:49:40,902
Speaker 2: and I feel like I shouldn't have read that before this.

1067
00:49:41,382 --> 00:49:43,622
Speaker 3: No, I think it's not fair to compare them. My

1068
00:49:43,741 --> 00:49:46,502
Speaker 3: understanding of that book is that it's doing very different things.

1069
00:49:46,582 --> 00:49:48,502
Speaker 2: It is it is, and so this I just think

1070
00:49:48,582 --> 00:49:50,982
Speaker 2: didn't quite compare. And then I got turned off. But

1071
00:49:51,062 --> 00:49:52,022
Speaker 2: I should pick it back up.

1072
00:49:52,102 --> 00:49:52,582
Speaker 1: Good idea.

1073
00:49:53,382 --> 00:49:55,301
Speaker 2: A big thank you to all of you the out

1074
00:49:55,342 --> 00:49:58,062
Speaker 2: louders for listening to today's show, and of course our

1075
00:49:58,062 --> 00:50:01,862
Speaker 2: fabulous team for putting this show together every week. Friends,

1076
00:50:01,942 --> 00:50:04,982
Speaker 2: don't forget you can also watch us on YouTube.

1077
00:50:04,982 --> 00:50:07,182
Speaker 3: Can I just shout out? Because we started the show

1078
00:50:07,261 --> 00:50:10,221
Speaker 3: talking about your shirt in somewhat drog it terms, but

1079
00:50:10,701 --> 00:50:13,622
Speaker 3: I want to mention that today I love the nineties

1080
00:50:13,741 --> 00:50:17,062
Speaker 3: vibe of what you're wearing. It's very Jennifer Aniston, and

1081
00:50:17,142 --> 00:50:21,262
Speaker 3: only our YouTube audience will get to see it. Interesting.

1082
00:50:21,302 --> 00:50:23,622
Speaker 2: Do you think because I've had a few comments lu

1083
00:50:23,661 --> 00:50:25,982
Speaker 2: cragans it sounds like Luke who criticizes me a lot,

1084
00:50:25,982 --> 00:50:26,901
Speaker 2: which maybe he does.

1085
00:50:26,942 --> 00:50:29,222
Speaker 1: You're wearing a white T shirt with a black shift

1086
00:50:29,261 --> 00:50:31,301
Speaker 1: dress over there. It's a a bit school girl, yeah,

1087
00:50:31,342 --> 00:50:32,341
Speaker 1: but in a sexy way.

1088
00:50:32,382 --> 00:50:34,422
Speaker 2: Okay, Okay, I took it as a compliment. All right,

1089
00:50:34,502 --> 00:50:37,422
Speaker 2: love it? Yeah, maya Amelia, please read the credits.

1090
00:50:37,781 --> 00:50:40,982
Speaker 1: Our team needs a lot of big claps. Group executive

1091
00:50:41,022 --> 00:50:46,542
Speaker 1: producer Roost Divine executive producers are Emmeline Gazillis and Sashatanic,

1092
00:50:46,741 --> 00:50:49,781
Speaker 1: and our senior audio producer is Lee Porges. And now

1093
00:50:49,822 --> 00:50:52,022
Speaker 1: I'm reading your bit to Amelia, I'm sorry.

1094
00:50:52,342 --> 00:50:55,381
Speaker 3: Our video producer big claps for Josh Green and our

1095
00:50:55,462 --> 00:50:58,422
Speaker 3: junior content producers are Cocoa and Tessa, who gave me

1096
00:50:58,462 --> 00:50:59,302
Speaker 3: a mint thank.

1097
00:50:59,181 --> 00:51:01,502
Speaker 1: You before we go out loud as. If you're not

1098
00:51:01,542 --> 00:51:04,022
Speaker 1: ready to say that was to be me, well, I know,

1099
00:51:04,102 --> 00:51:05,901
Speaker 1: I thought, because you spoke at the end, then I'll

1100
00:51:05,942 --> 00:51:08,142
Speaker 1: just pick it up keep going. I've forgotten how to

1101
00:51:08,142 --> 00:51:09,941
Speaker 1: do this shit the screen.

1102
00:51:10,062 --> 00:51:12,102
Speaker 2: Listen to our Tarot Card episode.

1103
00:51:12,261 --> 00:51:13,301
Speaker 1: I haven't been listening to the.

1104
00:51:13,302 --> 00:51:16,462
Speaker 2: Show, Okay, last Fridays and I'm going to do a

1105
00:51:16,462 --> 00:51:19,261
Speaker 2: little tease right now. Okay, there is something that that

1106
00:51:19,741 --> 00:51:22,622
Speaker 2: Tarot card reader says in last Friday's episode. If you

1107
00:51:22,622 --> 00:51:25,582
Speaker 2: haven't listened, you just simply must. There is something that

1108
00:51:25,622 --> 00:51:28,862
Speaker 2: she said that is about to happen. And I didn't

1109
00:51:28,902 --> 00:51:31,982
Speaker 2: realize that it was about to happen until I saw a

1110
00:51:32,022 --> 00:51:34,142
Speaker 2: comment in the out Louders and I was like, Oh,

1111
00:51:34,462 --> 00:51:37,702
Speaker 2: I didn't realize. So she's just so spot on about

1112
00:51:37,741 --> 00:51:41,302
Speaker 2: so many different things. We've had so much feedback. Also,

1113
00:51:41,342 --> 00:51:43,462
Speaker 2: go to the out Louders group and they're all sharing

1114
00:51:43,462 --> 00:51:44,702
Speaker 2: their Tarot card reader story.

1115
00:51:44,741 --> 00:51:47,102
Speaker 1: Really give you goosebumps. I saw her, I thought she

1116
00:51:47,221 --> 00:51:47,942
Speaker 1: was fantastic.

1117
00:51:48,102 --> 00:51:50,341
Speaker 2: She is, and we asked her about you and so

1118
00:51:50,422 --> 00:51:52,501
Speaker 2: if you want some just a free Tarot card reading

1119
00:51:52,542 --> 00:51:55,982
Speaker 2: just too. Last Friday's app we also left the MIC's

1120
00:51:56,062 --> 00:51:59,222
Speaker 2: rolling and did some personal one on ones with Evelyn.

1121
00:51:59,342 --> 00:52:00,062
Speaker 1: Are we going to hear that?

1122
00:52:00,382 --> 00:52:03,582
Speaker 2: They are subscriber episodes this week? So that was Tuesday's

1123
00:52:03,622 --> 00:52:06,781
Speaker 2: subscriber episode. It's very personal, it's very private. It is

1124
00:52:06,822 --> 00:52:09,301
Speaker 2: only for our subscribers. We will pop a link in

1125
00:52:09,302 --> 00:52:11,261
Speaker 2: the sho show notes to both of those episodes.

1126
00:52:12,181 --> 00:52:17,502
Speaker 1: Bye Bye, Shout out to any Muma Maya subscribers listening.

1127
00:52:17,701 --> 00:52:19,982
Speaker 1: If you love the show and want to support us

1128
00:52:20,022 --> 00:52:22,862
Speaker 1: as well, subscribing to MoMA Maya is the very best

1129
00:52:22,862 --> 00:52:24,661
Speaker 1: way to do so. There is a link in the

1130
00:52:24,701 --> 00:52:25,622
Speaker 1: episode description