Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.
Speaker 2: Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on Hello, and welcome to
Speaker 2: Momma Out Loud and to our Friday show, which is
Speaker 2: a news free zone where we ignore all the chaos
Speaker 2: of the headlines and just talk about what we want
Speaker 2: to talk about. Today is Friday, the fifteenth of November,
Speaker 2: and I'm Polly Waynwright, I'm.
Speaker 3: Mea Friedman, and I'm Jesse Stevens and.
Speaker 2: On the show today. Don't be a dickhead easy to
Speaker 2: say to others, but what about ourselves? Welcome to the
Speaker 2: dickhead list. Also, we've got recommendations for your weekend, including
Speaker 2: a book, a TV show, and a podcast that we're
Speaker 2: all consuming at pace and a new ral for reading.
Speaker 2: MIA's Ladies, Grandma Angst and Jesse's Massive Fomo. They're our
Speaker 2: best and worse of the week.
Speaker 1: But first, would you pay six hundred dollars an hour
Speaker 1: for an orgasm coach asking for a friend?
Speaker 3: It depends on I die things got Yeah, I'm okay
Speaker 3: for the moment, but I feel like if I was
Speaker 3: in a particularly dry period, the.
Speaker 2: Coaching my orgasm itself. Come on stronger, harder to find out.
Speaker 1: Okay, there's an LA based person who used to be
Speaker 1: a personal trainer. He's now called O Man. He is bearded,
Speaker 1: he's in his thirties. I don't know why the beard
Speaker 1: is relevant, but it's in my notes, and he's into BDSM.
Speaker 3: Can I please tell you Oman's origin story, what happened,
Speaker 3: because I'm obsessed with this. So basically what happened is
Speaker 3: that he was dating this woman who said that she
Speaker 3: had like sore hips, and he's a personal trainer, and
Speaker 3: they also dabbled in some recreational BDSM, which is relevant,
Speaker 3: and he said to her, I was like, I think
Speaker 3: if I tie you to my ceiling and put you
Speaker 3: in a kneeling chair and then use a vibrator, I
Speaker 3: can release your back. And then I did that and
Speaker 3: her hips didn't hurt, her back didn't hurt, and she
Speaker 3: came twenty times.
Speaker 1: She's never left my bedroom just till there hanging from
Speaker 1: my ceiling.
Speaker 2: That the most from physiopointment I can imagine.
Speaker 3: Apparently, his theory is that the reason women are struggling
Speaker 3: to orgasm it has nothing to do with psychological blockages.
Speaker 3: It's got nothing to do with how we feel about
Speaker 3: our own bodies. It is that we all sit too
Speaker 3: much and the muscles around our pelvic floor are not
Speaker 3: firing properly, and so we can't orgasm. So what he does.
Speaker 3: This person who spoke to him for the times, she
Speaker 3: actually got on a call with him, and he says
Speaker 3: things like, put your right leg around your neck and
Speaker 3: put your left leg here, and then use your vibrator
Speaker 3: to massage out. Well, he watches to massage out and
Speaker 3: not in your inner thigh, and by releasing all of
Speaker 3: these muscles, apparently you have a mad orgasm.
Speaker 1: He's helped five hundred women.
Speaker 2: It's a very rich.
Speaker 1: Madness his hobby. At first, he just helped friends and
Speaker 1: friends of friends. I was going to say family, but
Speaker 1: that's definitely not rebound. He used to do it in person,
Speaker 1: but at COVID times he had to pivot from in
Speaker 1: person sessions to develop his O system virtual classes. So yeah,
Speaker 1: he's helped five hundred women virtually, and price to start
Speaker 1: at twelve hundred dollars Australian an hour. I'm sorry. The
Speaker 1: six hundred dollars is US dollars.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, no, I think it's pounds. Okay, six pounds.
Speaker 1: So ninety five percent of the women that he treats
Speaker 1: achieved multiple orgasms. Satisfied clients include New Jersey housewives. I
Speaker 1: don't know if that's the reality stars or just women
Speaker 1: who live in New Jersey, the ex wives of people
Speaker 1: who've made the most influential People in the World list.
Speaker 1: These sound experienced clients, unverifiable and even he says, somebody
Speaker 1: on vacation here who was a British MP who pretended
Speaker 1: she wasn't a British MP, let's trust to resume. She's retired.
Speaker 1: Now part of the one hundred and twenty five billion
Speaker 1: dollar org as an industry worldwide. The orgasm industry includes
Speaker 1: we're in the wrong industry glass. This sounds like a
Speaker 1: much more fun I want to go to those meetings
Speaker 1: smart vibrators, libido gummies and mindful masturbation classes. There you go.
Speaker 1: That sounds great. I'm into Oh man, I'm just saying,
Speaker 1: why do you need to buy a vibrator and then
Speaker 1: do a zoom call with a man? I mean, if
Speaker 1: this turns you on, but to pay him to what
Speaker 1: you use the vibrator. I'm sure that is a kink
Speaker 1: that a lot of people would be into but I
Speaker 1: don't understand.
Speaker 2: So he specialized because trying it to the ceiling on
Speaker 2: your chair.
Speaker 3: He specializes in people who cannot orgasms. Oh so you're saying, hi, Oman.
Speaker 1: Oh, he corrects my technique in real time.
Speaker 3: Exactly and then he says, put it here, put it there.
Speaker 3: Move your body, he says, support your glutes.
Speaker 1: Wait, you're using it on your shoulder. You're putting it
Speaker 1: in the wrong place to have an orgasm.
Speaker 3: And apparently women in particular, it's a lot to do
Speaker 3: with our posture and there are a few changes we
Speaker 3: need to make. But in defense of Oman, I feel
Speaker 3: like for men when they can't climax, it's considered a
Speaker 3: legitimate health condition where you might even go to.
Speaker 2: The GP right medication.
Speaker 3: For women, it's like a nice to have.
Speaker 1: But if you an optional extra.
Speaker 3: An optional extra, you haven't had an orgasm in ten years,
Speaker 3: you deserve some help. And I like that there's someone,
Speaker 3: although he's a little bit, should.
Speaker 1: Be tax deductible or a community service. There's a policy
Speaker 1: for Dutton an Elbow to consider in their upcoming campaign.
Speaker 2: Oh Man sessions he's like a stroke coach for swimming.
Speaker 2: Just don't be a dickhead a great words to live by.
Speaker 2: And also it's the name of a memoir of a
Speaker 2: woman I interviewed on mid Lately. You might have heard
Speaker 2: of her. She's called Casey Chambers. Have we all heard
Speaker 2: of Casey Chambers?
Speaker 3: Yes? Anyway, her book Not Pretty It wasn't that actually
Speaker 3: a remake?
Speaker 2: No? She wrote that song? Ah, she wrote that song.
Speaker 2: She says now she's like, not pretty enough. Don't give
Speaker 2: a fuck. That's because she's older and she's got no
Speaker 2: fucks to give. Anyway.
Speaker 1: The books like all these little life lessons.
Speaker 2: Right from different moments in her life, from divorce to
Speaker 2: a eating disorder to ignoring bad career advice and all
Speaker 2: that stuff. But at the back of this book she
Speaker 2: shares her Dickhead list, And the idea is is that
Speaker 2: for every year we live, we gather a little bit
Speaker 2: more intel and wisdom right about the things we've been through.
Speaker 2: It teaches us really when we're wrong, like when we're
Speaker 2: not listening to our lessons, the things we know are
Speaker 2: ignoring our gut. And she calls these like her dickhead
Speaker 2: teals because she says they're the little warning signs that
Speaker 2: we should learn to listen to. But often we don't
Speaker 2: because we're too busy feeling insecure about staff, people pleasing
Speaker 2: whatever we're busy doing. These are what she would consider
Speaker 2: her dickhead signs. Casey included when she wrote her list down,
Speaker 2: things like I'm being a dickhead? When is how you
Speaker 2: start all these sentences? When I convince myself it's not
Speaker 2: okay to look my age? That was one of hers.
Speaker 2: Think that being strong means being an asshole is one
Speaker 2: of hers. Get my eyebrow peer in a dodgy backyard
Speaker 2: place in western New South Wales and leave it in
Speaker 2: until it goes all red and posse. That was another
Speaker 2: one of hers. So you see, they can be existential
Speaker 2: or they could be very practical, right, So I wrote one,
Speaker 2: I'll share a few of mine, so we've got some
Speaker 2: insp around the group used.
Speaker 1: I need you to interpret it.
Speaker 3: It's basically like the way I was thinking of it is,
Speaker 3: when are you with dickhead? So? What I love about
Speaker 3: this premise, I know it's hard for you to specify.
Speaker 1: Would be a shorter list what I win I wasn't.
Speaker 3: What I love is that you know how we talk
Speaker 3: about red flags like we're so good? Yeah, pointing out
Speaker 3: when other people are being.
Speaker 1: These are red flags. Okay, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: And the thing is is in order to do that,
Speaker 2: so it's a little bit kinder to yourself than rather
Speaker 2: than like you just fucked because women, generally we do
Speaker 2: have a long list of things that we know we
Speaker 2: shouldn't be doing. But it's more to kind of remind you, like,
Speaker 2: you know, not to do that. Right last time you
Speaker 2: did that, you ended up in bed with that person.
Speaker 2: And you know what I mean, that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2: So I wrote my dickhead list. Some of them are silly,
Speaker 2: some of them are not. So things like I know
Speaker 2: I'm being a dickhead when I don't listen, I just
Speaker 2: wait to talk. I think that's all of us.
Speaker 1: Really, Yeah, that is your idea. You are a dickhead
Speaker 1: when you do.
Speaker 2: I definitely am open the clean dishrusher, take out a fork,
Speaker 2: close the clean dish washer, classic dickhead mood. Often that
Speaker 2: is a passive aggressive move. I'm usually trying to send
Speaker 2: a signal to someone in my house or my office
Speaker 2: maybe of like I was empty the fucking dish washer,
Speaker 2: you should do it by making a dickhead move.
Speaker 1: I didn't know there was another option.
Speaker 2: Forget that my mood affects others. Forget to change my
Speaker 2: HRT patch see above. Ye, forget my children aren't me.
Speaker 2: That's an important one. I'm definitely always being a dickhead.
Speaker 2: When I do that, you have to remember, like, oh,
Speaker 2: that's right. They're their own people, They're not just me.
Speaker 2: Refuse to look at my bank balance, start carrying salt
Speaker 2: sashes in my purse, which I'd stopped doing. Yeah, now
Speaker 2: I've started doing it.
Speaker 3: No, Holly, that's just part of being Holly. Why have
Speaker 3: you stopped carrying salt sashe because I was.
Speaker 2: Being healthy in my body was a and I kept
Speaker 2: it going for a whole year. And now, like an
Speaker 2: addict who's fallen off the wagon, I find myself just
Speaker 2: like involuntarily grabbing salt sachets when ever I'm at a
Speaker 2: takeaway shop and just tucking them quietly in the back
Speaker 2: pocket of my bag. Don't let the truth get in
Speaker 2: the way of an easy opinion. That's the real dickheads,
Speaker 2: you know, when you're like, I know what I think
Speaker 2: about that, and then you do a bit of research
Speaker 2: and you go, oh, I still.
Speaker 1: Know what I think about that.
Speaker 3: I will not use that fact that it is inconvenient.
Speaker 3: Jesse Stevens, Okay, I found this task very easy, Yes,
Speaker 3: very very easy.
Speaker 2: Women in we're conditioned to do it.
Speaker 1: We should have written them for each other. Honestly.
Speaker 3: I know, Okay, I know I'm being a dickhead when
Speaker 3: I find myself saying how much better I feel since
Speaker 3: I started doing weight training, like right.
Speaker 1: Now, I've been saying that a lot lately.
Speaker 3: You know, I nearly said it in the last segment
Speaker 3: when we're talking about posture and orgasms. I was, like,
Speaker 3: I actually said out loud last week, you know, my
Speaker 3: posture's improved, it has I've been doing my weight training.
Speaker 3: I'm being a dickhead, being an absolute dickhead. I don't
Speaker 3: hate it, but it's annoying.
Speaker 2: We could argue that that's one of those things you
Speaker 2: needed to learn, so you're like reminding yourself of something.
Speaker 3: Exactly all right. I've got one that I catch myself
Speaker 3: right before I do it, but I'm going to call
Speaker 3: it a dickhead instinct, and then I've got to suppress it.
Speaker 3: My dickhead instinct is rearing its head. I'm in this
Speaker 3: specific stage right now where my baby is napping, right,
Speaker 3: She's quite a good napper. Anyone else in my circle
Speaker 3: who says, oh, I'm having issues with napping, I feel it.
Speaker 3: I feel the desire to give them advice, and then
Speaker 3: I go, that's your dickhead instinct. Suppress it. You're lucky.
Speaker 3: They're just in a different stage, and I've got to
Speaker 3: shut it down. I know I'm being a dickhead when
Speaker 3: I get a parking fine and I physically hide it
Speaker 3: from Luca, like somewhere in the house. You know when
Speaker 3: you're hiding something in your home that you're doing something wrong.
Speaker 3: I know I being a dickhead when I am scrolling
Speaker 3: through Instagram or TikTok and I'm actually muttering the word idiot.
Speaker 1: Yes, that's such a good Oh my god, I do that,
Speaker 1: I mutter. I don't know who you are. That's my tell.
Speaker 1: I don't know who you are. Who are you?
Speaker 3: Who are you?
Speaker 1: Who are you?
Speaker 3: Why are you talking to me?
Speaker 1: I don't know who you are. I'm sorry to put
Speaker 1: the phone.
Speaker 2: Down, but these people are just invading my life with
Speaker 2: their opinions.
Speaker 3: Exactly. I know I'm being a dickhead when I'm not
Speaker 3: listening to someone because I'm currently on my phone. Yeah,
Speaker 3: So sometimes I'll even be on the phone to look up.
Speaker 3: I'll put him on speaker and I'll check my emails,
Speaker 3: and I know that I'm being a dickhead, and then
Speaker 3: he'll say something and that I go, but what do
Speaker 3: you think?
Speaker 1: Jessee?
Speaker 2: Definitely, And he's like, really, but it costs seven hundred.
Speaker 1: Dollars, I'm not sure. What do you think?
Speaker 4: Mayo?
Speaker 3: What are your tells?
Speaker 1: So many? For me giving unsolicited advice, It's a feeling
Speaker 1: that I get in my body where I think I'm
Speaker 1: giving someone advice, but I'm just really trying to tell
Speaker 1: them what to do what I think. I mean, that's
Speaker 1: what advice is, right, is telling someone what to do.
Speaker 1: But I know that I'm too heavily invested in them
Speaker 1: following my advice, and I know that if they don't,
Speaker 1: I'll be pissed off.
Speaker 2: You like to fix things. It's one of your more
Speaker 2: traditionally male traits. I would say, you.
Speaker 1: Know how they say that that's when I'm being a dictatd.
Speaker 2: Because you're you do like to fix things, which is.
Speaker 1: Good, but I don't like it when people do it
Speaker 1: to You do it to me, like I just need
Speaker 1: to vent and then JAS will go in to fixing mode,
Speaker 1: or someone will go and fixing mode it and don't
Speaker 1: like it, but I do it to other people. It's
Speaker 1: really annoying performative kindness when I do something that I
Speaker 1: pretend is just kind, but actually I want other people
Speaker 1: to see me being kind. Like I was in a
Speaker 1: meeting with someone who was pregnant and there was water,
Speaker 1: and I was I concerned about her, maybe, but I
Speaker 1: was like, usually I would just honestly pour a glass
Speaker 1: water of myself, but I was like, you should be
Speaker 1: drinking more, which is advice. She wants some water, and
Speaker 1: I stopped the meeting so everybody could watch me helping
Speaker 1: to hydrate the pregnant person. I know I'm being a
Speaker 1: dickhead when I have the instinct that I love something
Speaker 1: so much, like a piece of clothing or a pair
Speaker 1: of shoes, that I want to buy it twice.
Speaker 3: Oh yes, I have never felt that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I get so anxious the same thing twice, a
Speaker 2: different color, the.
Speaker 1: Exact same thing. Because I get so anxious. I love
Speaker 1: it so much. I can't ever imagine not loving it,
Speaker 1: And I'm thinking about what if I lose it, what
Speaker 1: if it gets worn?
Speaker 2: Out continue it days.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like which they do with fashion. That's the whole
Speaker 1: point that you keep buying it. And then of course
Speaker 1: I've done this in the past and I never alone.
Speaker 1: Then you just like, well, I've just got this other thing.
Speaker 2: You've got to prove how much you love it by
Speaker 2: just pressing.
Speaker 1: I know, I just am like, no, don't just want
Speaker 1: That's a dickhead thing to do. I know I'm being
Speaker 1: a dickhead when I tell my kids' stories about myself
Speaker 1: in the hope that it will help them understand something
Speaker 1: they're going through, and I expect it to help, which
Speaker 1: it never does.
Speaker 2: Rerent does this all the time, just outing him as
Speaker 2: a dickhead right now, but like all the time to
Speaker 2: our teenagers who are being teenagers in twenty twenty four
Speaker 2: and or say when I was at school, I'm like,
Speaker 2: you were at school in the seventy kids, I.
Speaker 1: Do not want to hear your stories. They don't. Young
Speaker 1: people don't want to hear your stories. It's not relevant
Speaker 1: to me.
Speaker 3: No.
Speaker 1: Similarly, when I know that I'm just waiting to interrupt
Speaker 1: that snow globe thing where I'm just waiting for someone
Speaker 1: to finish so that I can jump in and say,
Speaker 1: look at my snow globe. Yeah, this similar thing happened
Speaker 1: to me. Where again I kid myself that I'm trying
Speaker 1: to make them feel seen, but actually I think I
Speaker 1: just want to talk.
Speaker 3: Sometimes I get in a mood where I'm very taken
Speaker 3: by myself and like by my and experiences, and I
Speaker 3: get so excited by myself and my experiences that I
Speaker 3: think you've got carried away and you can get adrenaline.
Speaker 3: I'm like, I am so interesting, And then it's just
Speaker 3: it's such a dickhead move, and you can tell that
Speaker 3: you've start you go. Actually, no one else's.
Speaker 2: They have two glasses of wine, and I get on
Speaker 2: my high horse and.
Speaker 1: You make people cry if they're notes and me, you've
Speaker 1: been out to dinner with girlfriends.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, yes, and I've got confused about where
Speaker 2: I am. And let me tell you what I think
Speaker 2: about that thing in a very strident and detailed.
Speaker 1: Fashion, Jesse, and I can handle it like what a dickhead.
Speaker 3: Oh, I know I'm being a dickhead. When I don't
Speaker 3: want to cry, I will resist crying, And in my
Speaker 3: pursuit of resistant crying, I will yell like I will
Speaker 3: get angry before I cry, and it's like, if you
Speaker 3: just cried, you could have probably like saved yourself a
Speaker 3: lot of drama.
Speaker 1: See, I'll do it the other way around when I
Speaker 1: should be angry, but I'll cry and it'll annoy me.
Speaker 1: But I also know that I'm being a dickhead when
Speaker 1: I get emotionally dysregulated, as you spoke about last week,
Speaker 1: and I know a therapist. Numerous therapists have said when
Speaker 1: you feel like that, when you feel like your reaction
Speaker 1: to a certain thing is outsized and you have big feelings,
Speaker 1: go for a walk, take a breath. And when I
Speaker 1: think about that advice and I just go, no, this
Speaker 1: time is different. I love that that.
Speaker 2: Hey, I wanted to ask you because you weren't here
Speaker 2: last Friday when we did emotional dysregulation. I wanted to
Speaker 2: ask you if there's anything you think that you've learned
Speaker 2: about how to emotionally regulate when you think the big
Speaker 2: feelings are overwhelming. Because we talked on the show about
Speaker 2: how it's a real thing, particularly for putting neurodiverse people,
Speaker 2: like it's a real thing and it can be an actual,
Speaker 2: real hindrance.
Speaker 3: And strategies are really important.
Speaker 2: I have seen you do that thing. When she just
Speaker 2: talked about where, I'm like, are you sure you've you can?
Speaker 3: You can set her eyes going yes, I've been told
Speaker 3: that I need to take a walk. And then you
Speaker 3: see her do a little like side to side and
Speaker 3: she's like and then I'm like, nah, I'm not doing it.
Speaker 1: This is a very legitimate feeling. This is not emotional dysregulation.
Speaker 1: It's almost like when I used to get PMT and
Speaker 1: I'd be shocked every time it would be like, no,
Speaker 1: I don't have PMT. The world's just fucked and everyone's
Speaker 1: incredibly irritating. It really always feels so genuine in that moment,
Speaker 1: no matter how much there's a tiny voice that goes
Speaker 1: these are big feelings. What's going on for you now?
Speaker 1: Right now? Pet? And I should go for a walk.
Speaker 1: And then I'm like no, And what I know that
Speaker 1: I need in that moment, and what I look for
Speaker 1: is for someone to match my feelings. That's the only
Speaker 1: thing that can dissipate them other than time. And time
Speaker 1: is really boring to just wait it out because I
Speaker 1: know that they always do dissipate. But my dickhead move
Speaker 1: and my destructive move is that I will go and
Speaker 1: try to get someone to be as pissed off as me.
Speaker 3: You need someone else to be equally as pissed off
Speaker 3: about that thing.
Speaker 1: To validate it. So I need to go, Jesse, can
Speaker 1: you believe that blah blah blah happened? And you to go,
Speaker 1: oh my god, that is just so bad. But no
Speaker 1: one ever does that.
Speaker 3: Yeh, because they're seeing your emotions here and they're going,
Speaker 3: what's helpful is to bring her down.
Speaker 1: And ironically what brings me down is someone meeting me there,
Speaker 1: and then I just immediately fall down, someone going oh
Speaker 1: my god, no, wonder you've pissed off about that, and I'll.
Speaker 2: Just go, this is very good, very nice for anyone
Speaker 2: dealing with the big feelings people.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you've got to match them, and otherwise you're like,
Speaker 1: you become desperate because of course what people try to
Speaker 1: do is talk you down and go it's not that bad.
Speaker 1: Here's why. But it has the opposite effect because then
Speaker 1: you feel like the word gaslit is of used, but
Speaker 1: you feel like you're not being validated and you've got
Speaker 1: to convince them. It's like you don't understand the sky's falling.
Speaker 3: Well, this is what we're talking about last week in
Speaker 3: terms of you feel like you're being told to calm down,
Speaker 3: which is.
Speaker 1: Has ever calmed down, so they don't need to like
Speaker 1: be is agitated, but to just go, oh my god,
Speaker 1: that's fucked.
Speaker 2: Do we think it's useful to know what our dickhead tells?
Speaker 1: Are? Yes?
Speaker 3: Absolutely?
Speaker 1: I found it self awareness, isn't it?
Speaker 3: Yeah? And also to go dickheads aren't They're not another
Speaker 3: species all of us? Are you? Last Shuesday? They walk
Speaker 3: among us in that they are sitting behind three microphones.
Speaker 1: They walk in our shoes because they are us. No,
Speaker 1: I think that that's really crucial. Not that you won't
Speaker 1: find other dickhead tells, but I think that that self awareness.
Speaker 1: I think women have a lot more because we're programmed
Speaker 1: for approval and to have other people like us. But
Speaker 1: I think that it is a really good quality. And
Speaker 1: I think that the only thing you've got to know
Speaker 1: is that when you're aware of your dickhead signs, you
Speaker 1: then go into shame. That's so you know when you've
Speaker 1: had it, Like when we've done a record and I've
Speaker 1: been very excited by the sound of my own voice,
Speaker 1: and then I've driven home and just gone, I just
Speaker 1: feel that yucky, you know, I just can't bear myself.
Speaker 2: I think the ideal situation in which to use a
Speaker 2: dickhead list is like, as you say, we're all going
Speaker 2: to do that, yeah, is to try not to get
Speaker 2: to the shame stage, right, but just go like next time,
Speaker 2: next time.
Speaker 3: When I catch myself. One that I've been thinking about
Speaker 3: a lot this year is that I'm being a dickhead
Speaker 3: when I assert my boundary through bitching, when that's the
Speaker 3: only way that I can say what I want or
Speaker 3: what I think is by venting, And so I catch
Speaker 3: myself in that and then to go, ah, okay, you're
Speaker 3: having issues with boundaries right now, Like that that actually
Speaker 3: really helps.
Speaker 1: I think I agree with that. I think hold back
Speaker 1: to your shame thing. I actually think that a small
Speaker 1: amount of shame is very corrective. Yeah, because if you
Speaker 1: don't feel shame, you'll just do it again.
Speaker 2: It's just how long you let yourself live there for. Yes,
Speaker 2: the barnet, Yeah, the drive home is okay. Yeah, The
Speaker 2: narrative in your head of like I should have said
Speaker 2: or shouldn't have said it? Why didn't I let them say?
Speaker 1: What?
Speaker 2: Very quickly you pull into the driveway and you're like, oh,
Speaker 2: forgotten about that?
Speaker 1: Okay anymore.
Speaker 2: It's a really good interview with Casey Chambers, if I
Speaker 2: say so myself. On mid we talk about all kinds
Speaker 2: of stuff divorce and re partnering and step parenting and
Speaker 2: all that stuff. Anyway, we'll put a link in the
Speaker 2: show notes and you'll find it in the midfeed out
Speaker 2: loud as.
Speaker 1: In a moment, something for you to read, listen to
Speaker 1: and watch. It's recos for the weekend and beyond.
Speaker 3: It's Friday, so we want to help set up your
Speaker 3: weekend with our best recommendations.
Speaker 1: Maya, you can go fir Okay, I'm watching a show.
Speaker 1: This has been my bar through the last few weeks.
Speaker 1: One of our favorite columnists is Marine Hyde, who's a
Speaker 1: columnist for the UK Guardian, and she has been working
Speaker 1: on a show called The Franchise. It's like a comedy
Speaker 1: about behind the scenes on a superhero franchise, but not
Speaker 1: one of the good ones, you know how there's like
Speaker 1: the main one and then there's all.
Speaker 3: These ant man yep.
Speaker 1: I was about to say, right, okay, so the ant
Speaker 1: Man and it's about this kind of beleaguered director who's
Speaker 1: trying to make this piece of art. Marina is one
Speaker 1: of the writers on the show and producers. It's by
Speaker 1: the maker of Veep, Amando Ayinucci and a bunch of
Speaker 1: other things, very very funny, So it's got that same
Speaker 1: veep vibe, but it's more dry because it's British. I'm
Speaker 1: first assistant director. There's my job to keep the actors
Speaker 1: from killing themselves. I might be having a few side
Speaker 1: effects from my human growth hormones. And I work with
Speaker 1: the director assisting his vision.
Speaker 4: I'd like to fare the sun.
Speaker 3: How you can't do that?
Speaker 1: This wearing the indoor scuff.
Speaker 4: I thought only directors were the indoors scuff?
Speaker 1: Is he mocking me? The way the show came about
Speaker 1: is that Sam Mendez, who's a phenomenal director. I used
Speaker 1: to be married to Kate Winslet, but he's like a
Speaker 1: quite a fancy pants director.
Speaker 2: MoMA Aret Loud. We identify men by who they've been
Speaker 2: married to.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just the other way around. And he was
Speaker 1: pitching some TV ideas to Amando Ainucci and they just
Speaker 1: got talking about Sam Mende's experience. I think he was
Speaker 1: doing one of the James Bond movies. He was just
Speaker 1: telling some stories about what that was like. His other
Speaker 1: ideas were shit, but Anucci was like, Oh no, I
Speaker 1: think there's a show there. It's laugh out loud, funny.
Speaker 1: Ooh are you watching it? It is on Binge and
Speaker 1: I never do this with a show. I'm watching it twice.
Speaker 1: So I watched it by myself and then I've gone
Speaker 1: back and watched it with my teenage son. And there's
Speaker 1: no one that wouldn't like this Because I don't watch
Speaker 1: Marvel movies. I don't really know the canon, but WI
Speaker 1: is hilarious.
Speaker 3: Oh okay, I'm gonna I've.
Speaker 2: Been hearing so much about that. I'm dying to see
Speaker 2: it too. Am I going?
Speaker 3: Yes, your turn.
Speaker 2: I'm reading a book. I'm written a book that I
Speaker 2: would not expect myself to be reading. We talked about
Speaker 2: this when we talking about It Ends with us in
Speaker 2: Colleen Hoover and how there are some authors who are
Speaker 2: really big, but sometimes people aren't proud to say that
Speaker 2: they're reading them, right, because we all think that we're
Speaker 2: reading one we like Jillie Cooper. Yeah, like we don't necessarily,
Speaker 2: but people think you should always be reading the latest
Speaker 2: like very literary tone, you know, so commercial fiction commercial fiction,
Speaker 2: which is actually what I write anyway. This book is
Speaker 2: by Ellen Hildebrand. Now, if that name is familiar to you,
Speaker 2: you have either read all her books and she has
Speaker 2: written like thirty she is an incredibly prolific novelist, or
Speaker 2: you just watched The Perfect Couple on Netflix earlier this
Speaker 2: year and became obsessed with that because she wrote that,
Speaker 2: and obviously her back catalog's got a big boost from that.
Speaker 2: I have learned because I was looking into her that
Speaker 2: she has written so many books and they are nearly
Speaker 2: all set in the same place, which is Nantucket, which
Speaker 2: is where The Perfect Couple were set. So we all
Speaker 2: have a visual picture for that now, right because we
Speaker 2: watched it so posh island, you know, with fancy people
Speaker 2: living on it, beautiful like gray shingle roof beach houses,
Speaker 2: all that kind of thing. Money then the people who
Speaker 2: live there to work for the rich people, so not money,
Speaker 2: so lots of like gossip and intrigue and summer it's
Speaker 2: really busy. In winter.
Speaker 1: It's quite kind of like the Hampton's, Yes, very very.
Speaker 2: Much on an island.
Speaker 3: It's on an island, and it's quite near Martha's vineyard
Speaker 3: where Lucra and I got engaged, and that's where the
Speaker 3: Obamas have a beach house. And it's also Jaws World.
Speaker 2: It is Jaws World. Jaws was set on a fictional
Speaker 2: version of Nantucket. Anyway, Ellen Hildebrand lives there in a big,
Speaker 2: fancy house, which tourists literally go and find because they're
Speaker 2: so obsessed with her books. You can go and do
Speaker 2: Ellen Hildebrand tours of Nantucket and stuff. Anyway, Well, I
Speaker 2: think she is part of her brand, right. But I
Speaker 2: have started reading her most recent book because everyone was
Speaker 2: talking to me about her. And it's called Swan Song.
Speaker 2: And in the same way that the franchise has maybe
Speaker 2: been a barm for you in the last few weeks,
Speaker 2: it has been just this glorious.
Speaker 1: Like a little bit silly, but not looking for a
Speaker 1: book like that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like I think it's actually the last in a series,
Speaker 2: but it doesn't matter because she's built a world, but
Speaker 2: the plot stone or you don't have to read them
Speaker 2: in order. And this is the most recent one and
Speaker 2: it basically is about that. It's the Swan Song because
Speaker 2: it's the Chief of Police. There's last summer at work,
Speaker 2: and of course there's a mysterious incident and it involves
Speaker 2: all the people on the island and there's a new
Speaker 2: family there and they're throwing these glamorous parties and everyone
Speaker 2: skinny and fornever, and it basically is told from these
Speaker 2: different perspectives on people on the island and it's just fun,
Speaker 2: perfect sexy, not sex sexy, but you know, like fun, lazy, sexy,
Speaker 2: like and pervy. And I'm just absolutely loving it. I
Speaker 2: can't stop. I want to go to bed read.
Speaker 1: Oh, I'm going to read that. I have a question
Speaker 1: for you about how much you loved have you read
Speaker 1: Jilly Cooper and has it made you want to read
Speaker 1: her other books?
Speaker 2: So I read Jilly Cooper back in the time, which
Speaker 2: was the eighties. Yes, the one I remember the most
Speaker 2: is Riders. That was the first one, and they made
Speaker 2: that into a thing and it was crapy, Yes I heard.
Speaker 2: I don't know if it's true, but maybe Marina Hyde
Speaker 2: told me not in real life. I wish that they're
Speaker 2: going to remake all of those books, those Rotsheer books,
Speaker 2: if they've got the funds to do so. It hasn't
Speaker 2: really made me want to go back and read them.
Speaker 2: I just feel and I know that anyone who loves
Speaker 2: books feels like this. There are so many books out there, like,
Speaker 2: it's hard to prioritize, and I am trying to get
Speaker 2: into some of the more current commercial fiction. Why I'm
Speaker 2: reading this So I don't know. Maybe yeah, but you
Speaker 2: know it's interesting because I love Love Love Riders. But
Speaker 2: it slowed down too much in the last couple, didn't it.
Speaker 2: Don't you think Rivals? Yeah, the TV show like it
Speaker 2: slowed down a tiny.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think everything is like that. Did you watch Disclaimer?
Speaker 3: But I'm enjoying it. Don't ruin it.
Speaker 1: That final episode dropped on Friday, and that is such
Speaker 1: an example of a show that should have been a movie.
Speaker 1: I felt that way with Fleischman was in trouble, like
Speaker 1: it's a taking too streamers, where of course it's more
Speaker 1: financially viable to stretch it out over six hours than
Speaker 1: to make a one and a half hour movie or
Speaker 1: a two hour movie. So what it means is that, yeah,
Speaker 1: TV shows, some of them end up feeling really bloated.
Speaker 3: Well, speaking of Flashman, my recommendation is a podcast episode
Speaker 3: Sentimental Garbage, which is a podcast we love with Caroline
Speaker 3: o'dono who, but it has been on a break for
Speaker 3: a while, and she released an episode which remarkably came
Speaker 3: out at the exact right moment with Taffy Brodessa Akner.
Speaker 3: It's Taffy Brodessa Akner is a Swiftocrat.
Speaker 2: And I think you recommended her lay this book a couple.
Speaker 1: Of weeks ago.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I compromise.
Speaker 1: Long Island Compromise, which I do.
Speaker 3: So I love Flashman and I really want to read
Speaker 3: Long Island Compromise. And the reason this is so fantastic
Speaker 3: is that it's two women. Caroline is a millennial and
Speaker 3: Taffy is a gen x at different life stages, and
Speaker 3: they're talking about Taylor Swift. And what I love about
Speaker 3: this show is the unashamed earnestness of it. Like that's
Speaker 3: the whole point.
Speaker 1: I think.
Speaker 4: The thing I thought the other day was that if
Speaker 4: you were a baby conceived on the first night of
Speaker 4: the Aras Tour, you are now a person in the
Speaker 4: world who can talk.
Speaker 1: That's nuts.
Speaker 4: You can walk and talk if you weren't even a thing.
Speaker 1: And she's not done.
Speaker 4: She's not done.
Speaker 1: This is her job.
Speaker 4: Her job is to be Her job is to be
Speaker 4: on the Aeros Tour, a concert that has gone on
Speaker 4: for so long that it now contains an additional segment
Speaker 4: about an album that was written during the Aeros tour
Speaker 4: and contains a song about how hard it is to
Speaker 4: be on the ara.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they're so earnest and analysis.
Speaker 1: I mean they also have a laugh, but they don't like.
Speaker 3: How much they genuinely love something.
Speaker 1: Treating it like literature or the great works of art.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I'm not a swifty I wouldn't call myself
Speaker 3: a swifty, but I loved how clever this conversation was
Speaker 3: and how they were able to dissect it to say
Speaker 3: things about feminism and heterosexuality and all the different things.
Speaker 3: It is just such a good listen to very very smart.
Speaker 1: Women and how they was interesting. The name of it
Speaker 1: being swifty versus a swiftercrat, Caroline explained it that she
Speaker 1: and her best friend made that distinction. So swifty is
Speaker 1: someone that knows everything about Taylor in her life, and
Speaker 1: a swift decrat is someone that kind of uses Taylor's art,
Speaker 1: her songs, and her lyrics to understand their own life
Speaker 1: and to interpret and make sense of their own life
Speaker 1: and process it.
Speaker 2: I'm obsessed with the war.
Speaker 1: So interesting.
Speaker 2: There's some good bits of gossip dropping it too, actually,
Speaker 2: because I also listened to this loved it sick, even
Speaker 2: though I'm not a massive, massive Swifty myself. Like the
Speaker 2: stuff about Tom Hidlson that Taffy drops about how she
Speaker 2: interviewed him just after the Taylor's.
Speaker 1: Situation, that was an iconic I know I knew it.
Speaker 2: But like, well, I mean, what the good bit of
Speaker 2: gossip was her just talking about how much she adored
Speaker 2: him and what a wonderful guy was, and how he
Speaker 2: called her kids and like all that kind of stuff,
Speaker 2: Like it's just a great chat. I love.
Speaker 3: I didn't get to tell you guys either that when
Speaker 3: I went and saw Dolly Alderton the other week, she
Speaker 3: had the best Taylor Swift theory I think I've ever heard,
Speaker 3: which was the reason why everyone is so obsessed with
Speaker 3: Taylor Swift, particularly teenage girls, is because fame, which really
Speaker 3: she's only written about fame for the last five ten years.
Speaker 3: Fame has been the thing is exactly like being a
Speaker 3: teenage girl, and instead of it being like, you know,
Speaker 3: Stacy's bitching about me, it's like you can over relate
Speaker 3: as a teenage girl. You overrelate to being famous because
Speaker 3: exactly how it feels.
Speaker 1: You go from being kind of invisible to being very
Speaker 1: visible as the world. Yeah, it was interesting.
Speaker 2: It is a glorious hour and a bit of your
Speaker 2: life that show.
Speaker 3: After the break, Maya has a nuanced that she wants
Speaker 3: to share with the group. Is she being a dickhead?
Speaker 3: Only you can decide.
Speaker 1: Probably. Every Tuesday and Thursday, we drop new segments of
Speaker 1: Mom and Me are out Loud just for Mum and
Speaker 1: Me as subscribers. Follow the link in the show notes
Speaker 1: to get your daily dose of out Loud and a
Speaker 1: big thank you to everyone who has already subscribed. It's
Speaker 1: time for Best and Worst, which is the part of
Speaker 1: the show that explains itself. We share a little bit
Speaker 1: more from our personal lives. I'm going to go first
Speaker 1: my worst of the week. I've made peace with being
Speaker 1: called nanas so part of my big thing. When Jesse
Speaker 1: announced her pregnancy, Everyone's like, what are you going to
Speaker 1: be called? I was like, I don't know, and everyone
Speaker 1: has to make up funny names. I was going to
Speaker 1: be me Me and that didn't take. So then I
Speaker 1: was like, it's awkward giving yourself a nickname. I was like, okay,
Speaker 1: you know what, Nana, I'm fine with Nana. I loved
Speaker 1: my Nana. My kids call my mum Nana. You know.
Speaker 3: The other day I was in the park and this
Speaker 3: quite hot woman who might have been early forties hot,
Speaker 3: was in an active way walking towards us, and Luna
Speaker 3: got her finger out. She said, Nana. She thought that
Speaker 3: hot woman was Nana, and I said no, no, no, Nana's
Speaker 3: much older.
Speaker 1: Or did she? Because what I've recently learned is that
Speaker 1: Anne Stevens, Jesse's mum out Louder extraordinary mascot in the
Speaker 1: out Louder's.
Speaker 3: Facebook group, so she needs to be muted.
Speaker 1: Also called Nana.
Speaker 3: She has nanas and this has.
Speaker 1: Sent me into this existential despair because I was very
Speaker 1: anxious at first about my position on the leaderboard and
Speaker 1: where I would be, because I realized I would be
Speaker 1: quite far down beneath Jesse Claire. Oh sorry, Jesse Luca.
Speaker 1: I always said, Jesse Claire, that order, Jesse Luca Claire,
Speaker 1: Jesse's twin Ann, and then I'd be next. I felt, do.
Speaker 3: You still feel that there's a leader board does not
Speaker 3: have family?
Speaker 1: No, I don't know. I don't feel like there's a
Speaker 1: leaderboard anymore. However, my piece has been thrown into disrate
Speaker 1: nice sledge on Anne. Anne's amazing, But I'm going to
Speaker 1: petition that maybe she could be called Nan because I
Speaker 1: think it's confusing. Because I think it's confusing to have
Speaker 1: two people with the same name. What if I was
Speaker 1: called Mama.
Speaker 2: I think somebody's already called Yes.
Speaker 1: Funny that someone has already called that.
Speaker 3: How many babies though I.
Speaker 1: Don't want to share my name.
Speaker 3: Babies have two mums, Babies have two dads that don't
Speaker 3: get here, but they.
Speaker 1: Always call babies. I know babies with two moms or
Speaker 1: two dads, and they have different names. They're not both mama. Really,
Speaker 1: no one will be like Memu and one will be Mama,
Speaker 1: or one will be mummy and one will be Ma.
Speaker 1: So I want to know, if I want to know
Speaker 1: if this is a thing.
Speaker 2: So I need you gonna do this. This child for
Speaker 2: out louders who are intimately involved in our lives as
Speaker 2: we are this personal question. Here is one right, sixteen
Speaker 2: months old. Luna is one as the ship sailed, I think,
Speaker 2: so she knows Nana and Nana as far as I
Speaker 2: can see, loves them both, spends lots of time with them.
Speaker 1: Both. I'm not worried about my place. Life will make
Speaker 1: How are you going to make her child? I tell
Speaker 1: you so. One of the things I did for Luna
Speaker 1: when these guys were not way earlier in the years,
Speaker 1: I made these little albums with everyone's photos because I
Speaker 1: remember my kids loved them. And her favorite thing to
Speaker 1: do is to flick through the photos and name everybody.
Speaker 1: And now she's got quite a good strike rate. She
Speaker 1: points at your mom. This is how I learned, right,
Speaker 1: because I thought your mum was grandma. And she pointed
Speaker 1: at Anne. Her face lit up, which makes me so happy,
Speaker 1: and goes Nana, And I was like, so Nan, temperature
Speaker 1: in the room, plut. So now Anne.
Speaker 3: Stevens's face is got out of every photo in the photo.
Speaker 1: So now we go through the album together and I go, Nan,
Speaker 1: we yah Na, that's no. We love man. But she's
Speaker 1: called Nan. It's not taking at all, but I'm still working.
Speaker 1: It's what all we do when she comes to my house. Now,
Speaker 1: it's all we do. We just look at the photos
Speaker 1: and we learn that that lady it is called Nan.
Speaker 2: Oh my god.
Speaker 3: She's insane.
Speaker 2: She is insane. How did you react when this information
Speaker 2: came your way?
Speaker 3: Well, it only just came my name, didn't She's.
Speaker 1: Like locally your mum's Bankay, isn't it funny though? How
Speaker 1: I have like I've always got to find something to
Speaker 1: be insecure or anxious about it. We need to pick
Speaker 1: that up with my therapy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, I'm the best. Today we have read oh
Speaker 2: my best.
Speaker 1: Sorry I forgot about that. My bears this week was
Speaker 1: interviewing Jackie Oh who. I just bloody love her. She's
Speaker 1: just a really good chick to interview. She's just no bullshit.
Speaker 1: And she came in and I wanted to interview her
Speaker 1: about her addiction, which she's written about in her memoir,
Speaker 1: which is Another Wreck. I great read that book.
Speaker 3: Everyone who's read it. It's really good.
Speaker 1: It's really really good to she narrate the audio brilliant,
Speaker 1: and I invited her in with Gemma, her best friend,
Speaker 1: and they spoke about Jemma's experience of Jackie's addiction as well.
Speaker 1: But what's so interesting about her is that because everyone
Speaker 1: in here was pretty excited. You know, Jackie's a big
Speaker 1: deal and an incredibly successful woman in media. So afterwards
Speaker 1: we said, would you mind staying for another like half
Speaker 1: an hour and just doing a Q and A with
Speaker 1: the staff, and she was like, yeah, yeah, sure, no problem.
Speaker 1: She's just so easy. She comes in just with Gemma.
Speaker 1: And then afterwards it was a pretty heavy interview. There
Speaker 1: were tears. It was like an hour and a half,
Speaker 1: if not two hours probably, and she'd comes straight from
Speaker 1: doing four hours that morning, and I'm like, do you
Speaker 1: need like a drink? Most people come out of this studio,
Speaker 1: including me, after a no filter, like unable to speak,
Speaker 1: and she's like, oh no, I don't need to unwake.
Speaker 1: You need a weed, you need a tea, We've got snacks.
Speaker 1: She's like, no, no, let's just go. Let's go. It's fine,
Speaker 1: no problem. And then she'd answered questions and was so
Speaker 1: delightful for her another half an hour and then I
Speaker 1: was like, oh, look, Jack probably has to go, and
Speaker 1: she's like, no, no, there's more questions.
Speaker 2: Can answer more questions. She did selfies, if everyone who
Speaker 2: wanted selfies. Just a delightful person. Nicole her works and
Speaker 2: people in Contububa nearly helped her.
Speaker 1: When you're as famous as Jack, I've met a lot
Speaker 1: of famous people and you don't always have to be
Speaker 1: that generous, but she's one of those people that knows
Speaker 1: she has the power to make or break someone's day, week, month,
Speaker 1: year by just giving them a little bit of her.
Speaker 1: And she was just so generous with her time. When
Speaker 1: everyone wants a piece of you, that's a big ask anyway,
Speaker 1: great book loved saying.
Speaker 3: I'm excited about that, and I feelter My worst.
Speaker 1: Of the week is.
Speaker 2: The thing about having kids is that sometimes you don't
Speaker 2: notice milestones exactly as they're happening, but a little bit
Speaker 2: afterwards you go, oh, that's new.
Speaker 3: That's new though that was the last time.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And what I've noticed is new in my house with
Speaker 2: my twelve and fourteen nearly fifteen year old is closed
Speaker 2: bedroom doors for ages when your kids are little. Maybe
Speaker 2: everyone's house isn't like this, but their bedroom doors are open.
Speaker 2: You're walking in and out. Everybody's walking in and out,
Speaker 2: and they don't actually spend that much time in there anyway.
Speaker 2: They'd probably rather be around you a little bit, or
Speaker 2: out in the world or whatever. And I've just got
Speaker 2: to that point with the kids where Billy only just
Speaker 2: a little bit more, but Matilda very much. Where they
Speaker 2: want to be in their rooms and the door is closed,
Speaker 2: and I don't think they're doing anything nefarious in their
Speaker 2: Oh no, they probably are. But what I remember is
Speaker 2: I remember very intently being about the age that Matilda was,
Speaker 2: and my bedroom was my world, right, like the posters
Speaker 2: on the wall, you know, my music. Oh, she's always
Speaker 2: printing out new pictures and putting them up. Your room
Speaker 2: is your sanctuary, right, and it's your thing. And when
Speaker 2: they're little, it's not like that you control, yes, And
Speaker 2: when they're little, their room is just the place where
Speaker 2: their toys are, you know. But now the door is closed,
Speaker 2: and I was not before I go in, But I'm like, oh,
Speaker 2: this is the new era and it's very normal and
Speaker 2: it's exactly how it should be. She is literally closing
Speaker 2: a door between me and her.
Speaker 1: Do you have your bedroom door closed?
Speaker 2: Not very often, which we should do more, just for
Speaker 2: sexy times, but we don't like I'm a bit funny
Speaker 2: with closed doors. I think I'm a bit claustrophobic. I
Speaker 2: don't really like doors being closed either door, and so
Speaker 2: I'm much happier to have doors open. I agree, And
Speaker 2: I always, yeah, I always feel like I'm breaching my
Speaker 2: parental responsibilities.
Speaker 1: But it's not even a should. It's that when my
Speaker 1: kids are in the house. Yeah, part claustrophobia and also
Speaker 1: part I want them to be able to have access.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you can hear a little bit what's going on,
Speaker 2: so it's very normal. But it made me. I was
Speaker 2: thinking about it this week and just noticing how many
Speaker 2: times I'm going up to the doors now, you know,
Speaker 2: with like fricking washing or snacks or come and do this,
Speaker 2: you lazy buggers or whatever it is, and the doors
Speaker 2: are closed, and I'm like, oh, and it made me
Speaker 2: realize this is one of those moments where they're just a.
Speaker 1: Little bit further away. Yeah, so so interesting.
Speaker 2: It's great, Like I mean, obviously there's a lot of
Speaker 2: joy in watching them grow up, but it's also a
Speaker 2: little bit My best is and I was talking before
Speaker 2: about how I'm reading this very fun book and I've
Speaker 2: been really really getting back into reading in a big
Speaker 2: way lately, which is great because it's always been one
Speaker 2: of the joys of my life. But when I'm really
Speaker 2: stressed and busy, it's one of the things to go
Speaker 2: and do.
Speaker 1: You also stop reading when you're writing, Well I used.
Speaker 2: To, but I'm actually trying not to do that. What
Speaker 2: I've realized is ever since I was a kid. The
Speaker 2: whole reason I want to be a writer and work
Speaker 2: with words is because I've always loved books, right, But
Speaker 2: then as you get older, books become a luxury, like, oh,
Speaker 2: imagine having the time to sit around and read a book,
Speaker 2: you know, and certainly in the very heavy busy years
Speaker 2: of kids and working kids and work, like, the idea
Speaker 2: that you might sit down for twenty minutes and read
Speaker 2: a book just seems like you can't even imagine it.
Speaker 2: But what I've realized lately and as I'm writing things too,
Speaker 2: that it's the only thing that a makes you better
Speaker 2: at writing is reading pushes you into new places with
Speaker 2: what you're doing. And also it's a form of rest.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: We've talked before about different forms of rest, Like people
Speaker 2: say rest and you're like, well, I'm not a line
Speaker 2: around doing nothing kind of person. But reading is rest
Speaker 2: a certain kind of rest.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, and it can be creative rest.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's creative rest for sure. Anyway, the reason it's
Speaker 2: my best is I've implemented a new routine. You like this,
Speaker 2: just you like a routine. We'll see how long it lasts.
Speaker 2: Probably a couple of days because it's been going for
Speaker 2: a couple of weeks now when I'm working at home
Speaker 2: or I've got days at home where I've got some
Speaker 2: work to do. Some of the things I make lists.
Speaker 2: That's what I do. I go right between ten and
Speaker 2: eleven today we are answering emails. Between this time and
Speaker 2: this time. We're writing a script for the mid intro.
Speaker 2: Between this time, maybe we're doing some exercise.
Speaker 1: Where do you write this on a piece of paper?
Speaker 2: Usually literally so I can literally cross it off, but
Speaker 2: the schedule helps me. Yeah, And what I've been doing
Speaker 2: lately is I go and then between one and one
Speaker 2: thirty we're reading a book.
Speaker 1: Oh wow, So not just because I usually my reading
Speaker 1: time is when I get into bed, but then I
Speaker 1: just fall away.
Speaker 2: The thing is I because that's always been my reading
Speaker 2: time too, and sometimes it gets hijacked by our phone addictions, right,
Speaker 2: which obviously we're trying whatever. And then also I often
Speaker 2: just fall asleep. It's like either look to break up
Speaker 2: or maybe five o'clock or half past five, or you know,
Speaker 2: like some really random time of the day. And even
Speaker 2: on weekends, if I'm like trying to get I'll go
Speaker 2: this half hour here is reading a book time and
Speaker 2: I sit on my chair and I read the book
Speaker 2: and then I cross it off back.
Speaker 3: And it's also like you've hacked it into feeling productive
Speaker 3: because it's on the list what must be.
Speaker 1: Done well I have.
Speaker 2: But also actually reading is part of my job. I
Speaker 2: mean not like now like sorry me, I we're not
Speaker 2: recording a show, I'm going to go and read my
Speaker 2: Allen Hilda.
Speaker 1: Brown, I can expect it.
Speaker 2: Not that, but like it is actually part of my
Speaker 2: general job to be reading.
Speaker 1: And so why have I liked the weird thing about.
Speaker 2: Carving out time? And I know that obviously not everybody
Speaker 2: can do it like that, but if it's like six
Speaker 2: till six thirty or early in the morning or whatever,
Speaker 2: you've got it, Like it's somehow writing it down and
Speaker 2: putting it in your schedule gives you permission to do it.
Speaker 2: And you shouldn't need permission to spend twenty minutes reading
Speaker 2: a book, but somehow you do.
Speaker 1: Do you know what I mean that instead of like
Speaker 1: just cramming it in the spaces.
Speaker 2: I'm like mindfully taking a moment to read a book.
Speaker 2: And it's working for me and that has been my
Speaker 2: best this week.
Speaker 3: I love it. Jesse ste My worst is not going
Speaker 3: to Coldplay.
Speaker 2: I'm sick.
Speaker 3: I'm not going Darling like every time I have them
Speaker 3: With Taylor Swift too, everyone's like, I'm going to Coldplay,
Speaker 3: and I'm like, excuse me. Firstly, when did we get tickets? Secondly,
Speaker 3: when do we learn Coldplayer was here?
Speaker 1: And I agree with you apart from Taylor or firstly,
Speaker 1: I don't like going to concerts a part of Taylor,
Speaker 1: but I don't understand how everyone knows that when people
Speaker 1: are here, if.
Speaker 3: People are just so on it. I've never gotten into
Speaker 3: a que anywhere.
Speaker 1: How are they on it? Like it was different with
Speaker 1: Taylor because it was just everywhere across media. Sorry, I
Speaker 1: just bang the camera. It was just everywhere. Everybody knew it.
Speaker 1: It was like a cultural event, certainly in our workplace.
Speaker 1: The world stopped. But how do people know?
Speaker 3: I vaguely remember the Coldplay thing popping up and my
Speaker 3: mum bought tickets.
Speaker 1: How long ago?
Speaker 3: I reckon it was like a year. Mum bought tickets,
Speaker 3: and I'm always like, well, where am I going to
Speaker 3: be in years? That's also true, you just don't know,
Speaker 3: and so didn't get them. And then I see everyone
Speaker 3: go wondering why or not at all exactly, and everyone
Speaker 3: has this spiritual experience, and I'm like, well, I'd have
Speaker 3: liked to go, but I am at home on my phone.
Speaker 1: Did you ask your mom how she knew they were touring?
Speaker 3: She had that thing where she got tickets and then
Speaker 3: she like told a bunch of friends and her daughters
Speaker 3: so that everyone would kind of fight for the tickets.
Speaker 3: And I don't know who took but didn't take me.
Speaker 3: I kind of assumed she would ask me last minute.
Speaker 3: Let's just say she didn't. I don't know who she.
Speaker 2: Just because you haven't given her own grandma now exactly.
Speaker 1: Everybody did say that it was a transcendent experience, that concept.
Speaker 1: I had great things.
Speaker 3: My best is Book Babies. So there's this thing at
Speaker 3: my local library. It's a nine thirty If I can,
Speaker 3: I try and go twice a week, but at the
Speaker 3: very least I go once. Yeah, just me and the babies.
Speaker 3: It is maybe a four minute walk from my house
Speaker 3: the library. We go up in our little pram and
Speaker 3: we go to Book Babies where we do our songs,
Speaker 3: a big story, like read the story. Someone like a
Speaker 3: volunteer from the library, and there's maybe fifteen or twenty
Speaker 3: other babies, and I just love it, like it is
Speaker 3: such a vibe. It is like watching Luna watch other
Speaker 3: things and just getting out of the house, because you know,
Speaker 3: it's one thing to sit there and read stories on it,
Speaker 3: but to have someone else do it. She's always in
Speaker 3: such a good mood once we do it. Then we
Speaker 3: go the toy library. It's part of our routine where
Speaker 3: we borrow and return our toys. Sometimes Cousin Matilda joins
Speaker 3: us and Auntie Claire. And it's just such a vibe.
Speaker 3: And so I've been really leaning into it lately, and
Speaker 3: I just love that there are free things like that. Yeah,
Speaker 3: the mast that's a great thing about.
Speaker 2: Library's absolutely nailed it.
Speaker 1: I think that what I've found hardest about being home
Speaker 1: with babies is being home with babies literally home. I
Speaker 1: found it very hard to get out of the house
Speaker 1: because it just seemed like too many steps, and I
Speaker 1: found it really hard to have to be anywhere at
Speaker 1: a certain time and all of those things. But the
Speaker 1: days are long, the days are really long, and doing
Speaker 1: something like that gives you short You just have to
Speaker 1: walk there it every day. Because I always found it
Speaker 1: hard to make arrangements with friends because I didn't know
Speaker 1: how that night would have gone on or how that day.
Speaker 1: So I never wanted the claustrophobia of anyone depending on me.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and this is literally twenty minutes and I turn
Speaker 3: up with the breakfast, not turn up date of me
Speaker 3: when I show up, and I'm like, who's going to
Speaker 3: judge me?
Speaker 1: Activity? You need activity in the morning and activity in
Speaker 1: the afternoon.
Speaker 2: It's funny how you rediscover libraries in a big way
Speaker 2: at different times in your life, and that's one of
Speaker 2: them when your kids are little and you remember, like,
Speaker 2: this is amazing, it's free and it's in my neighborhood.
Speaker 3: Does everyone know about libraries? Like libraries? You can get
Speaker 3: books there, They're super cheap.
Speaker 2: You can work there right there.
Speaker 3: You do it your borrow and then you give them.
Speaker 1: Back, then you get another one. Have you heard of that?
Speaker 2: Okay, lad As, I think we've gone a little a
Speaker 2: little cuckoo. That is all we have time for today.
Speaker 2: Big thank you to all of you for being here
Speaker 2: with us this week. Of course we're going to be
Speaker 2: back into His next week. Maya read us.
Speaker 1: Out A big thank you to our team. Executive producer
Speaker 1: Ruth Divine who owns being a dickhead when she machine
Speaker 1: guns instructions at her husband and sons and expects them
Speaker 1: to do it all now. Senior producer Emmeline Gazillas is
Speaker 1: a dickhead when she waits for the nicole of her
Speaker 1: friendship group to organize catch ups or maybe by coplay tickets,
Speaker 1: maybe even suggesting to the nicole, Hey, we should all
Speaker 1: come as a catch up soon, but never organize. Oh
Speaker 1: my god, I do that. That's so true. And of course,
Speaker 1: our audio producer is Leahpaordos. Her dickhead list includes when
Speaker 1: she forgets to eat and then wonders why she is
Speaker 1: angry and snippy with everyone. Our social media producer Isabel Dolphin,
Speaker 1: has a bit of a reputation amongst her friends for
Speaker 1: being a dickhead when it comes to packing for a
Speaker 1: girl's trip, always assuming they'll bring all the essentials, she forgets.
Speaker 3: The dickhead never packs toothpaste.
Speaker 1: Or a phone charger. And Josh Green, our video producer,
Speaker 1: his dickhead list includes getting too absorbed in his hobbies
Speaker 1: and forgetting to spend time with his wife.
Speaker 2: Oh byeity bye bye. Shout out to any Mamma Mia
Speaker 2: subscribers listening. If you love the show and you want
Speaker 2: to support us, subscribing to Mamma Mia is the very
Speaker 2: best way to do it. There's a link in the
Speaker 2: episode description