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Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.

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Speaker 2: Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters

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Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on Hello, and welcome to

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Speaker 2: Momma Out Loud and to our Friday show, which is

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Speaker 2: a news free zone where we ignore all the chaos

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Speaker 2: of the headlines and just talk about what we want

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Speaker 2: to talk about. Today is Friday, the fifteenth of November,

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Speaker 2: and I'm Polly Waynwright, I'm.

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Speaker 3: Mea Friedman, and I'm Jesse Stevens and.

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Speaker 2: On the show today. Don't be a dickhead easy to

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Speaker 2: say to others, but what about ourselves? Welcome to the

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Speaker 2: dickhead list. Also, we've got recommendations for your weekend, including

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Speaker 2: a book, a TV show, and a podcast that we're

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Speaker 2: all consuming at pace and a new ral for reading.

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Speaker 2: MIA's Ladies, Grandma Angst and Jesse's Massive Fomo. They're our

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Speaker 2: best and worse of the week.

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Speaker 1: But first, would you pay six hundred dollars an hour

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Speaker 1: for an orgasm coach asking for a friend?

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Speaker 3: It depends on I die things got Yeah, I'm okay

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Speaker 3: for the moment, but I feel like if I was

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Speaker 3: in a particularly dry period, the.

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Speaker 2: Coaching my orgasm itself. Come on stronger, harder to find out.

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Speaker 1: Okay, there's an LA based person who used to be

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Speaker 1: a personal trainer. He's now called O Man. He is bearded,

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Speaker 1: he's in his thirties. I don't know why the beard

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Speaker 1: is relevant, but it's in my notes, and he's into BDSM.

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Speaker 3: Can I please tell you Oman's origin story, what happened,

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Speaker 3: because I'm obsessed with this. So basically what happened is

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Speaker 3: that he was dating this woman who said that she

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Speaker 3: had like sore hips, and he's a personal trainer, and

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Speaker 3: they also dabbled in some recreational BDSM, which is relevant,

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Speaker 3: and he said to her, I was like, I think

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Speaker 3: if I tie you to my ceiling and put you

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Speaker 3: in a kneeling chair and then use a vibrator, I

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Speaker 3: can release your back. And then I did that and

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Speaker 3: her hips didn't hurt, her back didn't hurt, and she

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Speaker 3: came twenty times.

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Speaker 1: She's never left my bedroom just till there hanging from

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Speaker 1: my ceiling.

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Speaker 2: That the most from physiopointment I can imagine.

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Speaker 3: Apparently, his theory is that the reason women are struggling

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Speaker 3: to orgasm it has nothing to do with psychological blockages.

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Speaker 3: It's got nothing to do with how we feel about

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Speaker 3: our own bodies. It is that we all sit too

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Speaker 3: much and the muscles around our pelvic floor are not

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Speaker 3: firing properly, and so we can't orgasm. So what he does.

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Speaker 3: This person who spoke to him for the times, she

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Speaker 3: actually got on a call with him, and he says

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Speaker 3: things like, put your right leg around your neck and

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Speaker 3: put your left leg here, and then use your vibrator

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Speaker 3: to massage out. Well, he watches to massage out and

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Speaker 3: not in your inner thigh, and by releasing all of

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Speaker 3: these muscles, apparently you have a mad orgasm.

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Speaker 1: He's helped five hundred women.

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Speaker 2: It's a very rich.

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Speaker 1: Madness his hobby. At first, he just helped friends and

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Speaker 1: friends of friends. I was going to say family, but

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Speaker 1: that's definitely not rebound. He used to do it in person,

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Speaker 1: but at COVID times he had to pivot from in

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Speaker 1: person sessions to develop his O system virtual classes. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: he's helped five hundred women virtually, and price to start

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Speaker 1: at twelve hundred dollars Australian an hour. I'm sorry. The

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Speaker 1: six hundred dollars is US dollars.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, no, I think it's pounds. Okay, six pounds.

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Speaker 1: So ninety five percent of the women that he treats

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Speaker 1: achieved multiple orgasms. Satisfied clients include New Jersey housewives. I

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Speaker 1: don't know if that's the reality stars or just women

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Speaker 1: who live in New Jersey, the ex wives of people

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Speaker 1: who've made the most influential People in the World list.

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Speaker 1: These sound experienced clients, unverifiable and even he says, somebody

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Speaker 1: on vacation here who was a British MP who pretended

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Speaker 1: she wasn't a British MP, let's trust to resume. She's retired.

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Speaker 1: Now part of the one hundred and twenty five billion

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Speaker 1: dollar org as an industry worldwide. The orgasm industry includes

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Speaker 1: we're in the wrong industry glass. This sounds like a

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Speaker 1: much more fun I want to go to those meetings

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Speaker 1: smart vibrators, libido gummies and mindful masturbation classes. There you go.

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Speaker 1: That sounds great. I'm into Oh man, I'm just saying,

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Speaker 1: why do you need to buy a vibrator and then

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Speaker 1: do a zoom call with a man? I mean, if

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Speaker 1: this turns you on, but to pay him to what

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Speaker 1: you use the vibrator. I'm sure that is a kink

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Speaker 1: that a lot of people would be into but I

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Speaker 1: don't understand.

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Speaker 2: So he specialized because trying it to the ceiling on

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Speaker 2: your chair.

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Speaker 3: He specializes in people who cannot orgasms. Oh so you're saying, hi, Oman.

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Speaker 1: Oh, he corrects my technique in real time.

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Speaker 3: Exactly and then he says, put it here, put it there.

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Speaker 3: Move your body, he says, support your glutes.

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Speaker 1: Wait, you're using it on your shoulder. You're putting it

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Speaker 1: in the wrong place to have an orgasm.

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Speaker 3: And apparently women in particular, it's a lot to do

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Speaker 3: with our posture and there are a few changes we

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Speaker 3: need to make. But in defense of Oman, I feel

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Speaker 3: like for men when they can't climax, it's considered a

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Speaker 3: legitimate health condition where you might even go to.

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Speaker 2: The GP right medication.

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Speaker 3: For women, it's like a nice to have.

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Speaker 1: But if you an optional extra.

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Speaker 3: An optional extra, you haven't had an orgasm in ten years,

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Speaker 3: you deserve some help. And I like that there's someone,

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Speaker 3: although he's a little bit, should.

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Speaker 1: Be tax deductible or a community service. There's a policy

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Speaker 1: for Dutton an Elbow to consider in their upcoming campaign.

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Speaker 2: Oh Man sessions he's like a stroke coach for swimming.

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Speaker 2: Just don't be a dickhead a great words to live by.

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Speaker 2: And also it's the name of a memoir of a

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Speaker 2: woman I interviewed on mid Lately. You might have heard

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Speaker 2: of her. She's called Casey Chambers. Have we all heard

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Speaker 2: of Casey Chambers?

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Speaker 3: Yes? Anyway, her book Not Pretty It wasn't that actually

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Speaker 3: a remake?

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Speaker 2: No? She wrote that song? Ah, she wrote that song.

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Speaker 2: She says now she's like, not pretty enough. Don't give

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Speaker 2: a fuck. That's because she's older and she's got no

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Speaker 2: fucks to give. Anyway.

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Speaker 1: The books like all these little life lessons.

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Speaker 2: Right from different moments in her life, from divorce to

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Speaker 2: a eating disorder to ignoring bad career advice and all

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Speaker 2: that stuff. But at the back of this book she

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Speaker 2: shares her Dickhead list, And the idea is is that

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Speaker 2: for every year we live, we gather a little bit

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Speaker 2: more intel and wisdom right about the things we've been through.

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Speaker 2: It teaches us really when we're wrong, like when we're

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Speaker 2: not listening to our lessons, the things we know are

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Speaker 2: ignoring our gut. And she calls these like her dickhead

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Speaker 2: teals because she says they're the little warning signs that

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Speaker 2: we should learn to listen to. But often we don't

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Speaker 2: because we're too busy feeling insecure about staff, people pleasing

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Speaker 2: whatever we're busy doing. These are what she would consider

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Speaker 2: her dickhead signs. Casey included when she wrote her list down,

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Speaker 2: things like I'm being a dickhead? When is how you

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Speaker 2: start all these sentences? When I convince myself it's not

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Speaker 2: okay to look my age? That was one of hers.

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Speaker 2: Think that being strong means being an asshole is one

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Speaker 2: of hers. Get my eyebrow peer in a dodgy backyard

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Speaker 2: place in western New South Wales and leave it in

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Speaker 2: until it goes all red and posse. That was another

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Speaker 2: one of hers. So you see, they can be existential

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Speaker 2: or they could be very practical, right, So I wrote one,

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Speaker 2: I'll share a few of mine, so we've got some

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Speaker 2: insp around the group used.

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Speaker 1: I need you to interpret it.

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Speaker 3: It's basically like the way I was thinking of it is,

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Speaker 3: when are you with dickhead? So? What I love about

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Speaker 3: this premise, I know it's hard for you to specify.

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Speaker 1: Would be a shorter list what I win I wasn't.

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Speaker 3: What I love is that you know how we talk

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Speaker 3: about red flags like we're so good? Yeah, pointing out

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Speaker 3: when other people are being.

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Speaker 1: These are red flags. Okay, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 2: And the thing is is in order to do that,

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Speaker 2: so it's a little bit kinder to yourself than rather

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Speaker 2: than like you just fucked because women, generally we do

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Speaker 2: have a long list of things that we know we

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Speaker 2: shouldn't be doing. But it's more to kind of remind you, like,

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Speaker 2: you know, not to do that. Right last time you

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Speaker 2: did that, you ended up in bed with that person.

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Speaker 2: And you know what I mean, that kind of stuff.

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Speaker 2: So I wrote my dickhead list. Some of them are silly,

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Speaker 2: some of them are not. So things like I know

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Speaker 2: I'm being a dickhead when I don't listen, I just

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Speaker 2: wait to talk. I think that's all of us.

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Speaker 1: Really, Yeah, that is your idea. You are a dickhead

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Speaker 1: when you do.

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Speaker 2: I definitely am open the clean dishrusher, take out a fork,

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Speaker 2: close the clean dish washer, classic dickhead mood. Often that

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Speaker 2: is a passive aggressive move. I'm usually trying to send

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Speaker 2: a signal to someone in my house or my office

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Speaker 2: maybe of like I was empty the fucking dish washer,

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Speaker 2: you should do it by making a dickhead move.

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Speaker 1: I didn't know there was another option.

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Speaker 2: Forget that my mood affects others. Forget to change my

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Speaker 2: HRT patch see above. Ye, forget my children aren't me.

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Speaker 2: That's an important one. I'm definitely always being a dickhead.

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Speaker 2: When I do that, you have to remember, like, oh,

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Speaker 2: that's right. They're their own people, They're not just me.

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Speaker 2: Refuse to look at my bank balance, start carrying salt

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Speaker 2: sashes in my purse, which I'd stopped doing. Yeah, now

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Speaker 2: I've started doing it.

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Speaker 3: No, Holly, that's just part of being Holly. Why have

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Speaker 3: you stopped carrying salt sashe because I was.

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Speaker 2: Being healthy in my body was a and I kept

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Speaker 2: it going for a whole year. And now, like an

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Speaker 2: addict who's fallen off the wagon, I find myself just

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Speaker 2: like involuntarily grabbing salt sachets when ever I'm at a

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Speaker 2: takeaway shop and just tucking them quietly in the back

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Speaker 2: pocket of my bag. Don't let the truth get in

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Speaker 2: the way of an easy opinion. That's the real dickheads,

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Speaker 2: you know, when you're like, I know what I think

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Speaker 2: about that, and then you do a bit of research

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Speaker 2: and you go, oh, I still.

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Speaker 1: Know what I think about that.

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Speaker 3: I will not use that fact that it is inconvenient.

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Speaker 3: Jesse Stevens, Okay, I found this task very easy, Yes,

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Speaker 3: very very easy.

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Speaker 2: Women in we're conditioned to do it.

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Speaker 1: We should have written them for each other. Honestly.

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Speaker 3: I know, Okay, I know I'm being a dickhead when

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Speaker 3: I find myself saying how much better I feel since

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Speaker 3: I started doing weight training, like right.

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Speaker 1: Now, I've been saying that a lot lately.

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Speaker 3: You know, I nearly said it in the last segment

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Speaker 3: when we're talking about posture and orgasms. I was, like,

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Speaker 3: I actually said out loud last week, you know, my

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Speaker 3: posture's improved, it has I've been doing my weight training.

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Speaker 3: I'm being a dickhead, being an absolute dickhead. I don't

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Speaker 3: hate it, but it's annoying.

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Speaker 2: We could argue that that's one of those things you

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Speaker 2: needed to learn, so you're like reminding yourself of something.

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Speaker 3: Exactly all right. I've got one that I catch myself

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Speaker 3: right before I do it, but I'm going to call

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Speaker 3: it a dickhead instinct, and then I've got to suppress it.

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Speaker 3: My dickhead instinct is rearing its head. I'm in this

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Speaker 3: specific stage right now where my baby is napping, right,

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Speaker 3: She's quite a good napper. Anyone else in my circle

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Speaker 3: who says, oh, I'm having issues with napping, I feel it.

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Speaker 3: I feel the desire to give them advice, and then

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Speaker 3: I go, that's your dickhead instinct. Suppress it. You're lucky.

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Speaker 3: They're just in a different stage, and I've got to

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Speaker 3: shut it down. I know I'm being a dickhead when

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Speaker 3: I get a parking fine and I physically hide it

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Speaker 3: from Luca, like somewhere in the house. You know when

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Speaker 3: you're hiding something in your home that you're doing something wrong.

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Speaker 3: I know I being a dickhead when I am scrolling

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Speaker 3: through Instagram or TikTok and I'm actually muttering the word idiot.

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Speaker 1: Yes, that's such a good Oh my god, I do that,

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Speaker 1: I mutter. I don't know who you are. That's my tell.

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Speaker 1: I don't know who you are. Who are you?

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Speaker 3: Who are you?

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Speaker 1: Who are you?

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Speaker 3: Why are you talking to me?

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Speaker 1: I don't know who you are. I'm sorry to put

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Speaker 1: the phone.

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Speaker 2: Down, but these people are just invading my life with

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Speaker 2: their opinions.

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Speaker 3: Exactly. I know I'm being a dickhead when I'm not

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Speaker 3: listening to someone because I'm currently on my phone. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: So sometimes I'll even be on the phone to look up.

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Speaker 3: I'll put him on speaker and I'll check my emails,

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Speaker 3: and I know that I'm being a dickhead, and then

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Speaker 3: he'll say something and that I go, but what do

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Speaker 3: you think?

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Speaker 1: Jessee?

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Speaker 2: Definitely, And he's like, really, but it costs seven hundred.

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Speaker 1: Dollars, I'm not sure. What do you think?

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Speaker 4: Mayo?

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Speaker 3: What are your tells?

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Speaker 1: So many? For me giving unsolicited advice, It's a feeling

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Speaker 1: that I get in my body where I think I'm

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Speaker 1: giving someone advice, but I'm just really trying to tell

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Speaker 1: them what to do what I think. I mean, that's

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Speaker 1: what advice is, right, is telling someone what to do.

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Speaker 1: But I know that I'm too heavily invested in them

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Speaker 1: following my advice, and I know that if they don't,

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Speaker 1: I'll be pissed off.

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Speaker 2: You like to fix things. It's one of your more

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Speaker 2: traditionally male traits. I would say, you.

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Speaker 1: Know how they say that that's when I'm being a dictatd.

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Speaker 2: Because you're you do like to fix things, which is.

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Speaker 1: Good, but I don't like it when people do it

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Speaker 1: to You do it to me, like I just need

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Speaker 1: to vent and then JAS will go in to fixing mode,

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Speaker 1: or someone will go and fixing mode it and don't

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Speaker 1: like it, but I do it to other people. It's

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Speaker 1: really annoying performative kindness when I do something that I

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Speaker 1: pretend is just kind, but actually I want other people

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Speaker 1: to see me being kind. Like I was in a

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Speaker 1: meeting with someone who was pregnant and there was water,

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Speaker 1: and I was I concerned about her, maybe, but I

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Speaker 1: was like, usually I would just honestly pour a glass

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Speaker 1: water of myself, but I was like, you should be

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Speaker 1: drinking more, which is advice. She wants some water, and

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Speaker 1: I stopped the meeting so everybody could watch me helping

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Speaker 1: to hydrate the pregnant person. I know I'm being a

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Speaker 1: dickhead when I have the instinct that I love something

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Speaker 1: so much, like a piece of clothing or a pair

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Speaker 1: of shoes, that I want to buy it twice.

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Speaker 3: Oh yes, I have never felt that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I get so anxious the same thing twice, a

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Speaker 2: different color, the.

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Speaker 1: Exact same thing. Because I get so anxious. I love

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Speaker 1: it so much. I can't ever imagine not loving it,

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Speaker 1: And I'm thinking about what if I lose it, what

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Speaker 1: if it gets worn?

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Speaker 2: Out continue it days.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, like which they do with fashion. That's the whole

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Speaker 1: point that you keep buying it. And then of course

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Speaker 1: I've done this in the past and I never alone.

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Speaker 1: Then you just like, well, I've just got this other thing.

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Speaker 2: You've got to prove how much you love it by

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Speaker 2: just pressing.

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Speaker 1: I know, I just am like, no, don't just want

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Speaker 1: That's a dickhead thing to do. I know I'm being

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Speaker 1: a dickhead when I tell my kids' stories about myself

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Speaker 1: in the hope that it will help them understand something

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Speaker 1: they're going through, and I expect it to help, which

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Speaker 1: it never does.

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Speaker 2: Rerent does this all the time, just outing him as

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Speaker 2: a dickhead right now, but like all the time to

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Speaker 2: our teenagers who are being teenagers in twenty twenty four

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Speaker 2: and or say when I was at school, I'm like,

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Speaker 2: you were at school in the seventy kids, I.

305
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Speaker 1: Do not want to hear your stories. They don't. Young

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Speaker 1: people don't want to hear your stories. It's not relevant

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Speaker 1: to me.

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Speaker 3: No.

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Speaker 1: Similarly, when I know that I'm just waiting to interrupt

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Speaker 1: that snow globe thing where I'm just waiting for someone

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Speaker 1: to finish so that I can jump in and say,

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Speaker 1: look at my snow globe. Yeah, this similar thing happened

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Speaker 1: to me. Where again I kid myself that I'm trying

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Speaker 1: to make them feel seen, but actually I think I

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Speaker 1: just want to talk.

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Speaker 3: Sometimes I get in a mood where I'm very taken

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Speaker 3: by myself and like by my and experiences, and I

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Speaker 3: get so excited by myself and my experiences that I

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Speaker 3: think you've got carried away and you can get adrenaline.

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Speaker 3: I'm like, I am so interesting, And then it's just

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Speaker 3: it's such a dickhead move, and you can tell that

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Speaker 3: you've start you go. Actually, no one else's.

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Speaker 2: They have two glasses of wine, and I get on

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Speaker 2: my high horse and.

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Speaker 1: You make people cry if they're notes and me, you've

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Speaker 1: been out to dinner with girlfriends.

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Speaker 2: Oh my god, yes, and I've got confused about where

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Speaker 2: I am. And let me tell you what I think

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Speaker 2: about that thing in a very strident and detailed.

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Speaker 1: Fashion, Jesse, and I can handle it like what a dickhead.

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Speaker 3: Oh, I know I'm being a dickhead. When I don't

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Speaker 3: want to cry, I will resist crying, And in my

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Speaker 3: pursuit of resistant crying, I will yell like I will

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Speaker 3: get angry before I cry, and it's like, if you

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Speaker 3: just cried, you could have probably like saved yourself a

336
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Speaker 3: lot of drama.

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Speaker 1: See, I'll do it the other way around when I

338
00:16:08,527 --> 00:16:11,567
Speaker 1: should be angry, but I'll cry and it'll annoy me.

339
00:16:12,447 --> 00:16:15,127
Speaker 1: But I also know that I'm being a dickhead when

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Speaker 1: I get emotionally dysregulated, as you spoke about last week,

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Speaker 1: and I know a therapist. Numerous therapists have said when

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Speaker 1: you feel like that, when you feel like your reaction

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Speaker 1: to a certain thing is outsized and you have big feelings,

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Speaker 1: go for a walk, take a breath. And when I

345
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Speaker 1: think about that advice and I just go, no, this

346
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Speaker 1: time is different. I love that that.

347
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Speaker 2: Hey, I wanted to ask you because you weren't here

348
00:16:44,887 --> 00:16:50,287
Speaker 2: last Friday when we did emotional dysregulation. I wanted to

349
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Speaker 2: ask you if there's anything you think that you've learned

350
00:16:52,527 --> 00:16:54,767
Speaker 2: about how to emotionally regulate when you think the big

351
00:16:54,767 --> 00:16:57,647
Speaker 2: feelings are overwhelming. Because we talked on the show about

352
00:16:57,647 --> 00:17:01,247
Speaker 2: how it's a real thing, particularly for putting neurodiverse people,

353
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Speaker 2: like it's a real thing and it can be an actual,

354
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Speaker 2: real hindrance.

355
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Speaker 3: And strategies are really important.

356
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Speaker 2: I have seen you do that thing. When she just

357
00:17:08,967 --> 00:17:11,127
Speaker 2: talked about where, I'm like, are you sure you've you can?

358
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Speaker 3: You can set her eyes going yes, I've been told

359
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Speaker 3: that I need to take a walk. And then you

360
00:17:17,327 --> 00:17:19,047
Speaker 3: see her do a little like side to side and

361
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Speaker 3: she's like and then I'm like, nah, I'm not doing it.

362
00:17:21,287 --> 00:17:24,167
Speaker 1: This is a very legitimate feeling. This is not emotional dysregulation.

363
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Speaker 1: It's almost like when I used to get PMT and

364
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Speaker 1: I'd be shocked every time it would be like, no,

365
00:17:30,327 --> 00:17:34,367
Speaker 1: I don't have PMT. The world's just fucked and everyone's

366
00:17:34,407 --> 00:17:39,007
Speaker 1: incredibly irritating. It really always feels so genuine in that moment,

367
00:17:39,047 --> 00:17:41,087
Speaker 1: no matter how much there's a tiny voice that goes

368
00:17:41,887 --> 00:17:44,087
Speaker 1: these are big feelings. What's going on for you now?

369
00:17:44,127 --> 00:17:46,247
Speaker 1: Right now? Pet? And I should go for a walk.

370
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Speaker 1: And then I'm like no, And what I know that

371
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Speaker 1: I need in that moment, and what I look for

372
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Speaker 1: is for someone to match my feelings. That's the only

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Speaker 1: thing that can dissipate them other than time. And time

374
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Speaker 1: is really boring to just wait it out because I

375
00:18:02,887 --> 00:18:06,567
Speaker 1: know that they always do dissipate. But my dickhead move

376
00:18:07,167 --> 00:18:09,567
Speaker 1: and my destructive move is that I will go and

377
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Speaker 1: try to get someone to be as pissed off as me.

378
00:18:12,687 --> 00:18:14,487
Speaker 3: You need someone else to be equally as pissed off

379
00:18:14,527 --> 00:18:15,167
Speaker 3: about that thing.

380
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Speaker 1: To validate it. So I need to go, Jesse, can

381
00:18:18,407 --> 00:18:20,687
Speaker 1: you believe that blah blah blah happened? And you to go,

382
00:18:20,847 --> 00:18:24,287
Speaker 1: oh my god, that is just so bad. But no

383
00:18:24,327 --> 00:18:25,247
Speaker 1: one ever does that.

384
00:18:25,527 --> 00:18:28,327
Speaker 3: Yeh, because they're seeing your emotions here and they're going,

385
00:18:28,567 --> 00:18:30,207
Speaker 3: what's helpful is to bring her down.

386
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Speaker 1: And ironically what brings me down is someone meeting me there,

387
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Speaker 1: and then I just immediately fall down, someone going oh

388
00:18:37,847 --> 00:18:40,087
Speaker 1: my god, no, wonder you've pissed off about that, and I'll.

389
00:18:39,967 --> 00:18:44,927
Speaker 2: Just go, this is very good, very nice for anyone

390
00:18:44,967 --> 00:18:47,087
Speaker 2: dealing with the big feelings people.

391
00:18:47,367 --> 00:18:50,087
Speaker 1: Yeah, you've got to match them, and otherwise you're like,

392
00:18:50,367 --> 00:18:52,967
Speaker 1: you become desperate because of course what people try to

393
00:18:53,007 --> 00:18:55,807
Speaker 1: do is talk you down and go it's not that bad.

394
00:18:56,007 --> 00:18:58,567
Speaker 1: Here's why. But it has the opposite effect because then

395
00:18:58,607 --> 00:19:01,207
Speaker 1: you feel like the word gaslit is of used, but

396
00:19:01,247 --> 00:19:03,287
Speaker 1: you feel like you're not being validated and you've got

397
00:19:03,327 --> 00:19:06,207
Speaker 1: to convince them. It's like you don't understand the sky's falling.

398
00:19:06,327 --> 00:19:08,047
Speaker 3: Well, this is what we're talking about last week in

399
00:19:08,127 --> 00:19:10,327
Speaker 3: terms of you feel like you're being told to calm down,

400
00:19:10,407 --> 00:19:10,807
Speaker 3: which is.

401
00:19:12,007 --> 00:19:15,367
Speaker 1: Has ever calmed down, so they don't need to like

402
00:19:16,007 --> 00:19:19,127
Speaker 1: be is agitated, but to just go, oh my god,

403
00:19:19,127 --> 00:19:19,727
Speaker 1: that's fucked.

404
00:19:19,927 --> 00:19:22,207
Speaker 2: Do we think it's useful to know what our dickhead tells?

405
00:19:22,207 --> 00:19:23,247
Speaker 1: Are? Yes?

406
00:19:23,287 --> 00:19:24,007
Speaker 3: Absolutely?

407
00:19:24,087 --> 00:19:25,927
Speaker 1: I found it self awareness, isn't it?

408
00:19:26,007 --> 00:19:30,247
Speaker 3: Yeah? And also to go dickheads aren't They're not another

409
00:19:30,327 --> 00:19:36,887
Speaker 3: species all of us? Are you? Last Shuesday? They walk

410
00:19:36,927 --> 00:19:40,847
Speaker 3: among us in that they are sitting behind three microphones.

411
00:19:40,807 --> 00:19:43,447
Speaker 1: They walk in our shoes because they are us. No,

412
00:19:43,607 --> 00:19:45,887
Speaker 1: I think that that's really crucial. Not that you won't

413
00:19:46,207 --> 00:19:50,127
Speaker 1: find other dickhead tells, but I think that that self awareness.

414
00:19:50,487 --> 00:19:53,087
Speaker 1: I think women have a lot more because we're programmed

415
00:19:53,847 --> 00:19:57,087
Speaker 1: for approval and to have other people like us. But

416
00:19:57,247 --> 00:20:00,247
Speaker 1: I think that it is a really good quality. And

417
00:20:00,287 --> 00:20:02,487
Speaker 1: I think that the only thing you've got to know

418
00:20:03,287 --> 00:20:07,247
Speaker 1: is that when you're aware of your dickhead signs, you

419
00:20:07,327 --> 00:20:10,367
Speaker 1: then go into shame. That's so you know when you've

420
00:20:10,367 --> 00:20:13,007
Speaker 1: had it, Like when we've done a record and I've

421
00:20:13,047 --> 00:20:16,247
Speaker 1: been very excited by the sound of my own voice,

422
00:20:16,967 --> 00:20:20,127
Speaker 1: and then I've driven home and just gone, I just

423
00:20:20,167 --> 00:20:24,927
Speaker 1: feel that yucky, you know, I just can't bear myself.

424
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Speaker 2: I think the ideal situation in which to use a

425
00:20:27,287 --> 00:20:29,287
Speaker 2: dickhead list is like, as you say, we're all going

426
00:20:29,367 --> 00:20:32,127
Speaker 2: to do that, yeah, is to try not to get

427
00:20:32,127 --> 00:20:34,407
Speaker 2: to the shame stage, right, but just go like next time,

428
00:20:35,367 --> 00:20:37,807
Speaker 2: next time.

429
00:20:36,847 --> 00:20:39,207
Speaker 3: When I catch myself. One that I've been thinking about

430
00:20:39,247 --> 00:20:41,887
Speaker 3: a lot this year is that I'm being a dickhead

431
00:20:42,087 --> 00:20:46,527
Speaker 3: when I assert my boundary through bitching, when that's the

432
00:20:46,567 --> 00:20:48,527
Speaker 3: only way that I can say what I want or

433
00:20:48,567 --> 00:20:51,687
Speaker 3: what I think is by venting, And so I catch

434
00:20:51,727 --> 00:20:55,607
Speaker 3: myself in that and then to go, ah, okay, you're

435
00:20:55,607 --> 00:20:58,327
Speaker 3: having issues with boundaries right now, Like that that actually

436
00:20:58,327 --> 00:20:59,087
Speaker 3: really helps.

437
00:20:59,087 --> 00:21:01,647
Speaker 1: I think I agree with that. I think hold back

438
00:21:01,687 --> 00:21:05,367
Speaker 1: to your shame thing. I actually think that a small

439
00:21:05,407 --> 00:21:10,007
Speaker 1: amount of shame is very corrective. Yeah, because if you

440
00:21:10,047 --> 00:21:11,727
Speaker 1: don't feel shame, you'll just do it again.

441
00:21:11,767 --> 00:21:14,247
Speaker 2: It's just how long you let yourself live there for. Yes,

442
00:21:14,367 --> 00:21:17,807
Speaker 2: the barnet, Yeah, the drive home is okay. Yeah, The

443
00:21:17,927 --> 00:21:19,407
Speaker 2: narrative in your head of like I should have said

444
00:21:19,447 --> 00:21:21,047
Speaker 2: or shouldn't have said it? Why didn't I let them say?

445
00:21:21,167 --> 00:21:21,247
Speaker 1: What?

446
00:21:22,007 --> 00:21:26,487
Speaker 2: Very quickly you pull into the driveway and you're like, oh,

447
00:21:26,527 --> 00:21:27,207
Speaker 2: forgotten about that?

448
00:21:27,207 --> 00:21:30,167
Speaker 1: Okay anymore.

449
00:21:30,807 --> 00:21:32,687
Speaker 2: It's a really good interview with Casey Chambers, if I

450
00:21:32,687 --> 00:21:35,447
Speaker 2: say so myself. On mid we talk about all kinds

451
00:21:35,447 --> 00:21:38,767
Speaker 2: of stuff divorce and re partnering and step parenting and

452
00:21:38,767 --> 00:21:40,927
Speaker 2: all that stuff. Anyway, we'll put a link in the

453
00:21:40,967 --> 00:21:42,727
Speaker 2: show notes and you'll find it in the midfeed out

454
00:21:42,767 --> 00:21:43,207
Speaker 2: loud as.

455
00:21:43,127 --> 00:21:45,207
Speaker 1: In a moment, something for you to read, listen to

456
00:21:45,687 --> 00:21:49,607
Speaker 1: and watch. It's recos for the weekend and beyond.

457
00:21:59,367 --> 00:22:01,407
Speaker 3: It's Friday, so we want to help set up your

458
00:22:01,447 --> 00:22:03,567
Speaker 3: weekend with our best recommendations.

459
00:22:04,047 --> 00:22:07,767
Speaker 1: Maya, you can go fir Okay, I'm watching a show.

460
00:22:08,127 --> 00:22:10,847
Speaker 1: This has been my bar through the last few weeks.

461
00:22:11,767 --> 00:22:14,127
Speaker 1: One of our favorite columnists is Marine Hyde, who's a

462
00:22:14,127 --> 00:22:18,327
Speaker 1: columnist for the UK Guardian, and she has been working

463
00:22:18,407 --> 00:22:22,407
Speaker 1: on a show called The Franchise. It's like a comedy

464
00:22:22,807 --> 00:22:25,887
Speaker 1: about behind the scenes on a superhero franchise, but not

465
00:22:25,927 --> 00:22:27,367
Speaker 1: one of the good ones, you know how there's like

466
00:22:27,407 --> 00:22:29,287
Speaker 1: the main one and then there's all.

467
00:22:29,167 --> 00:22:30,687
Speaker 3: These ant man yep.

468
00:22:30,727 --> 00:22:34,567
Speaker 1: I was about to say, right, okay, so the ant

469
00:22:34,647 --> 00:22:39,487
Speaker 1: Man and it's about this kind of beleaguered director who's

470
00:22:39,527 --> 00:22:42,527
Speaker 1: trying to make this piece of art. Marina is one

471
00:22:42,567 --> 00:22:44,727
Speaker 1: of the writers on the show and producers. It's by

472
00:22:44,767 --> 00:22:48,407
Speaker 1: the maker of Veep, Amando Ayinucci and a bunch of

473
00:22:48,487 --> 00:22:50,807
Speaker 1: other things, very very funny, So it's got that same

474
00:22:50,967 --> 00:22:56,367
Speaker 1: veep vibe, but it's more dry because it's British. I'm

475
00:22:56,527 --> 00:22:59,527
Speaker 1: first assistant director. There's my job to keep the actors

476
00:22:59,567 --> 00:23:02,327
Speaker 1: from killing themselves. I might be having a few side

477
00:23:02,367 --> 00:23:06,167
Speaker 1: effects from my human growth hormones. And I work with

478
00:23:06,207 --> 00:23:07,927
Speaker 1: the director assisting his vision.

479
00:23:08,247 --> 00:23:09,167
Speaker 4: I'd like to fare the sun.

480
00:23:09,407 --> 00:23:10,047
Speaker 3: How you can't do that?

481
00:23:10,207 --> 00:23:11,527
Speaker 1: This wearing the indoor scuff.

482
00:23:11,527 --> 00:23:13,527
Speaker 4: I thought only directors were the indoors scuff?

483
00:23:13,607 --> 00:23:16,887
Speaker 1: Is he mocking me? The way the show came about

484
00:23:17,167 --> 00:23:20,207
Speaker 1: is that Sam Mendez, who's a phenomenal director. I used

485
00:23:20,207 --> 00:23:23,007
Speaker 1: to be married to Kate Winslet, but he's like a

486
00:23:23,127 --> 00:23:24,647
Speaker 1: quite a fancy pants director.

487
00:23:24,887 --> 00:23:27,127
Speaker 2: MoMA Aret Loud. We identify men by who they've been

488
00:23:27,127 --> 00:23:27,527
Speaker 2: married to.

489
00:23:27,727 --> 00:23:30,367
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just the other way around. And he was

490
00:23:30,447 --> 00:23:35,487
Speaker 1: pitching some TV ideas to Amando Ainucci and they just

491
00:23:35,527 --> 00:23:39,167
Speaker 1: got talking about Sam Mende's experience. I think he was

492
00:23:39,207 --> 00:23:41,407
Speaker 1: doing one of the James Bond movies. He was just

493
00:23:41,447 --> 00:23:44,087
Speaker 1: telling some stories about what that was like. His other

494
00:23:44,127 --> 00:23:46,607
Speaker 1: ideas were shit, but Anucci was like, Oh no, I

495
00:23:46,607 --> 00:23:51,487
Speaker 1: think there's a show there. It's laugh out loud, funny.

496
00:23:50,087 --> 00:23:54,487
Speaker 1: Ooh are you watching it? It is on Binge and

497
00:23:54,807 --> 00:23:57,967
Speaker 1: I never do this with a show. I'm watching it twice.

498
00:23:58,527 --> 00:24:00,167
Speaker 1: So I watched it by myself and then I've gone

499
00:24:00,247 --> 00:24:04,047
Speaker 1: back and watched it with my teenage son. And there's

500
00:24:04,087 --> 00:24:06,007
Speaker 1: no one that wouldn't like this Because I don't watch

501
00:24:06,047 --> 00:24:09,367
Speaker 1: Marvel movies. I don't really know the canon, but WI

502
00:24:09,407 --> 00:24:10,287
Speaker 1: is hilarious.

503
00:24:10,607 --> 00:24:11,807
Speaker 3: Oh okay, I'm gonna I've.

504
00:24:11,647 --> 00:24:13,807
Speaker 2: Been hearing so much about that. I'm dying to see

505
00:24:13,807 --> 00:24:15,647
Speaker 2: it too. Am I going?

506
00:24:15,727 --> 00:24:16,327
Speaker 3: Yes, your turn.

507
00:24:16,567 --> 00:24:19,567
Speaker 2: I'm reading a book. I'm written a book that I

508
00:24:19,647 --> 00:24:22,407
Speaker 2: would not expect myself to be reading. We talked about

509
00:24:22,407 --> 00:24:23,727
Speaker 2: this when we talking about It Ends with us in

510
00:24:23,767 --> 00:24:27,367
Speaker 2: Colleen Hoover and how there are some authors who are

511
00:24:27,807 --> 00:24:30,767
Speaker 2: really big, but sometimes people aren't proud to say that

512
00:24:30,807 --> 00:24:32,967
Speaker 2: they're reading them, right, because we all think that we're

513
00:24:33,007 --> 00:24:36,047
Speaker 2: reading one we like Jillie Cooper. Yeah, like we don't necessarily,

514
00:24:36,047 --> 00:24:38,447
Speaker 2: but people think you should always be reading the latest

515
00:24:38,607 --> 00:24:43,727
Speaker 2: like very literary tone, you know, so commercial fiction commercial fiction,

516
00:24:43,767 --> 00:24:46,687
Speaker 2: which is actually what I write anyway. This book is

517
00:24:46,727 --> 00:24:49,487
Speaker 2: by Ellen Hildebrand. Now, if that name is familiar to you,

518
00:24:49,487 --> 00:24:51,767
Speaker 2: you have either read all her books and she has

519
00:24:51,807 --> 00:24:56,087
Speaker 2: written like thirty she is an incredibly prolific novelist, or

520
00:24:56,127 --> 00:24:58,327
Speaker 2: you just watched The Perfect Couple on Netflix earlier this

521
00:24:58,407 --> 00:25:01,207
Speaker 2: year and became obsessed with that because she wrote that,

522
00:25:01,487 --> 00:25:03,727
Speaker 2: and obviously her back catalog's got a big boost from that.

523
00:25:04,247 --> 00:25:08,127
Speaker 2: I have learned because I was looking into her that

524
00:25:08,167 --> 00:25:10,687
Speaker 2: she has written so many books and they are nearly

525
00:25:10,807 --> 00:25:13,647
Speaker 2: all set in the same place, which is Nantucket, which

526
00:25:13,647 --> 00:25:15,607
Speaker 2: is where The Perfect Couple were set. So we all

527
00:25:15,607 --> 00:25:17,447
Speaker 2: have a visual picture for that now, right because we

528
00:25:17,527 --> 00:25:21,767
Speaker 2: watched it so posh island, you know, with fancy people

529
00:25:21,807 --> 00:25:25,927
Speaker 2: living on it, beautiful like gray shingle roof beach houses,

530
00:25:26,527 --> 00:25:29,367
Speaker 2: all that kind of thing. Money then the people who

531
00:25:29,447 --> 00:25:31,887
Speaker 2: live there to work for the rich people, so not money,

532
00:25:31,967 --> 00:25:34,367
Speaker 2: so lots of like gossip and intrigue and summer it's

533
00:25:34,367 --> 00:25:35,167
Speaker 2: really busy. In winter.

534
00:25:35,207 --> 00:25:38,327
Speaker 1: It's quite kind of like the Hampton's, Yes, very very.

535
00:25:38,287 --> 00:25:39,767
Speaker 2: Much on an island.

536
00:25:39,927 --> 00:25:43,007
Speaker 3: It's on an island, and it's quite near Martha's vineyard

537
00:25:43,167 --> 00:25:46,647
Speaker 3: where Lucra and I got engaged, and that's where the

538
00:25:46,687 --> 00:25:49,927
Speaker 3: Obamas have a beach house. And it's also Jaws World.

539
00:25:50,087 --> 00:25:53,247
Speaker 2: It is Jaws World. Jaws was set on a fictional

540
00:25:53,367 --> 00:25:56,967
Speaker 2: version of Nantucket. Anyway, Ellen Hildebrand lives there in a big,

541
00:25:57,007 --> 00:26:00,487
Speaker 2: fancy house, which tourists literally go and find because they're

542
00:26:00,487 --> 00:26:02,247
Speaker 2: so obsessed with her books. You can go and do

543
00:26:02,327 --> 00:26:06,447
Speaker 2: Ellen Hildebrand tours of Nantucket and stuff. Anyway, Well, I

544
00:26:06,447 --> 00:26:09,327
Speaker 2: think she is part of her brand, right. But I

545
00:26:09,407 --> 00:26:12,407
Speaker 2: have started reading her most recent book because everyone was

546
00:26:12,447 --> 00:26:14,087
Speaker 2: talking to me about her. And it's called Swan Song.

547
00:26:14,567 --> 00:26:16,807
Speaker 2: And in the same way that the franchise has maybe

548
00:26:16,887 --> 00:26:18,327
Speaker 2: been a barm for you in the last few weeks,

549
00:26:18,327 --> 00:26:21,647
Speaker 2: it has been just this glorious.

550
00:26:21,167 --> 00:26:24,207
Speaker 1: Like a little bit silly, but not looking for a

551
00:26:24,207 --> 00:26:24,807
Speaker 1: book like that.

552
00:26:24,967 --> 00:26:27,607
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like I think it's actually the last in a series,

553
00:26:27,647 --> 00:26:29,767
Speaker 2: but it doesn't matter because she's built a world, but

554
00:26:29,807 --> 00:26:31,847
Speaker 2: the plot stone or you don't have to read them

555
00:26:31,847 --> 00:26:34,087
Speaker 2: in order. And this is the most recent one and

556
00:26:34,247 --> 00:26:36,847
Speaker 2: it basically is about that. It's the Swan Song because

557
00:26:36,847 --> 00:26:39,607
Speaker 2: it's the Chief of Police. There's last summer at work,

558
00:26:39,887 --> 00:26:42,967
Speaker 2: and of course there's a mysterious incident and it involves

559
00:26:43,007 --> 00:26:44,727
Speaker 2: all the people on the island and there's a new

560
00:26:44,767 --> 00:26:47,487
Speaker 2: family there and they're throwing these glamorous parties and everyone

561
00:26:47,527 --> 00:26:49,887
Speaker 2: skinny and fornever, and it basically is told from these

562
00:26:49,927 --> 00:26:53,487
Speaker 2: different perspectives on people on the island and it's just fun,

563
00:26:53,607 --> 00:26:59,007
Speaker 2: perfect sexy, not sex sexy, but you know, like fun, lazy, sexy,

564
00:26:59,407 --> 00:27:02,767
Speaker 2: like and pervy. And I'm just absolutely loving it. I

565
00:27:02,807 --> 00:27:04,407
Speaker 2: can't stop. I want to go to bed read.

566
00:27:04,767 --> 00:27:06,727
Speaker 1: Oh, I'm going to read that. I have a question

567
00:27:06,847 --> 00:27:11,047
Speaker 1: for you about how much you loved have you read

568
00:27:11,087 --> 00:27:13,007
Speaker 1: Jilly Cooper and has it made you want to read

569
00:27:13,047 --> 00:27:13,767
Speaker 1: her other books?

570
00:27:13,767 --> 00:27:17,287
Speaker 2: So I read Jilly Cooper back in the time, which

571
00:27:17,367 --> 00:27:19,687
Speaker 2: was the eighties. Yes, the one I remember the most

572
00:27:19,727 --> 00:27:22,167
Speaker 2: is Riders. That was the first one, and they made

573
00:27:22,247 --> 00:27:25,407
Speaker 2: that into a thing and it was crapy, Yes I heard.

574
00:27:25,407 --> 00:27:27,167
Speaker 2: I don't know if it's true, but maybe Marina Hyde

575
00:27:27,207 --> 00:27:29,767
Speaker 2: told me not in real life. I wish that they're

576
00:27:29,767 --> 00:27:32,407
Speaker 2: going to remake all of those books, those Rotsheer books,

577
00:27:32,487 --> 00:27:35,447
Speaker 2: if they've got the funds to do so. It hasn't

578
00:27:35,527 --> 00:27:37,567
Speaker 2: really made me want to go back and read them.

579
00:27:37,647 --> 00:27:39,727
Speaker 2: I just feel and I know that anyone who loves

580
00:27:39,727 --> 00:27:42,767
Speaker 2: books feels like this. There are so many books out there, like,

581
00:27:42,807 --> 00:27:45,847
Speaker 2: it's hard to prioritize, and I am trying to get

582
00:27:45,847 --> 00:27:48,807
Speaker 2: into some of the more current commercial fiction. Why I'm

583
00:27:48,847 --> 00:27:52,287
Speaker 2: reading this So I don't know. Maybe yeah, but you

584
00:27:52,327 --> 00:27:54,607
Speaker 2: know it's interesting because I love Love Love Riders. But

585
00:27:54,727 --> 00:27:57,207
Speaker 2: it slowed down too much in the last couple, didn't it.

586
00:27:57,247 --> 00:27:59,887
Speaker 2: Don't you think Rivals? Yeah, the TV show like it

587
00:27:59,967 --> 00:28:01,087
Speaker 2: slowed down a tiny.

588
00:28:01,127 --> 00:28:04,207
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think everything is like that. Did you watch Disclaimer?

589
00:28:05,807 --> 00:28:07,647
Speaker 3: But I'm enjoying it. Don't ruin it.

590
00:28:07,767 --> 00:28:13,247
Speaker 1: That final episode dropped on Friday, and that is such

591
00:28:13,287 --> 00:28:16,167
Speaker 1: an example of a show that should have been a movie.

592
00:28:16,407 --> 00:28:18,567
Speaker 1: I felt that way with Fleischman was in trouble, like

593
00:28:18,967 --> 00:28:22,527
Speaker 1: it's a taking too streamers, where of course it's more

594
00:28:22,687 --> 00:28:25,327
Speaker 1: financially viable to stretch it out over six hours than

595
00:28:25,367 --> 00:28:27,807
Speaker 1: to make a one and a half hour movie or

596
00:28:27,807 --> 00:28:30,887
Speaker 1: a two hour movie. So what it means is that, yeah,

597
00:28:31,047 --> 00:28:33,687
Speaker 1: TV shows, some of them end up feeling really bloated.

598
00:28:33,967 --> 00:28:39,447
Speaker 3: Well, speaking of Flashman, my recommendation is a podcast episode

599
00:28:39,647 --> 00:28:43,247
Speaker 3: Sentimental Garbage, which is a podcast we love with Caroline

600
00:28:43,247 --> 00:28:45,647
Speaker 3: o'dono who, but it has been on a break for

601
00:28:45,687 --> 00:28:50,247
Speaker 3: a while, and she released an episode which remarkably came

602
00:28:50,287 --> 00:28:54,647
Speaker 3: out at the exact right moment with Taffy Brodessa Akner.

603
00:28:55,407 --> 00:28:58,567
Speaker 3: It's Taffy Brodessa Akner is a Swiftocrat.

604
00:28:57,967 --> 00:29:01,007
Speaker 2: And I think you recommended her lay this book a couple.

605
00:29:00,847 --> 00:29:01,407
Speaker 1: Of weeks ago.

606
00:29:01,527 --> 00:29:03,207
Speaker 3: Yeah, I compromise.

607
00:29:02,927 --> 00:29:04,327
Speaker 1: Long Island Compromise, which I do.

608
00:29:05,447 --> 00:29:07,807
Speaker 3: So I love Flashman and I really want to read

609
00:29:07,887 --> 00:29:11,647
Speaker 3: Long Island Compromise. And the reason this is so fantastic

610
00:29:11,767 --> 00:29:14,567
Speaker 3: is that it's two women. Caroline is a millennial and

611
00:29:14,767 --> 00:29:18,447
Speaker 3: Taffy is a gen x at different life stages, and

612
00:29:18,647 --> 00:29:20,887
Speaker 3: they're talking about Taylor Swift. And what I love about

613
00:29:20,887 --> 00:29:24,207
Speaker 3: this show is the unashamed earnestness of it. Like that's

614
00:29:24,287 --> 00:29:25,007
Speaker 3: the whole point.

615
00:29:25,527 --> 00:29:25,767
Speaker 1: I think.

616
00:29:25,847 --> 00:29:28,447
Speaker 4: The thing I thought the other day was that if

617
00:29:28,487 --> 00:29:33,167
Speaker 4: you were a baby conceived on the first night of

618
00:29:33,207 --> 00:29:36,927
Speaker 4: the Aras Tour, you are now a person in the

619
00:29:36,967 --> 00:29:39,047
Speaker 4: world who can talk.

620
00:29:39,967 --> 00:29:40,727
Speaker 1: That's nuts.

621
00:29:40,887 --> 00:29:44,527
Speaker 4: You can walk and talk if you weren't even a thing.

622
00:29:45,087 --> 00:29:45,807
Speaker 1: And she's not done.

623
00:29:45,967 --> 00:29:46,807
Speaker 4: She's not done.

624
00:29:47,567 --> 00:29:48,487
Speaker 1: This is her job.

625
00:29:48,687 --> 00:29:50,767
Speaker 4: Her job is to be Her job is to be

626
00:29:50,807 --> 00:29:54,687
Speaker 4: on the Aeros Tour, a concert that has gone on

627
00:29:54,807 --> 00:29:59,487
Speaker 4: for so long that it now contains an additional segment

628
00:30:00,207 --> 00:30:03,847
Speaker 4: about an album that was written during the Aeros tour

629
00:30:04,287 --> 00:30:08,487
Speaker 4: and contains a song about how hard it is to

630
00:30:08,487 --> 00:30:09,127
Speaker 4: be on the ara.

631
00:30:09,927 --> 00:30:12,567
Speaker 3: Yeah, they're so earnest and analysis.

632
00:30:12,647 --> 00:30:16,207
Speaker 1: I mean they also have a laugh, but they don't like.

633
00:30:17,287 --> 00:30:19,527
Speaker 3: How much they genuinely love something.

634
00:30:19,407 --> 00:30:22,367
Speaker 1: Treating it like literature or the great works of art.

635
00:30:22,447 --> 00:30:25,007
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I'm not a swifty I wouldn't call myself

636
00:30:25,007 --> 00:30:29,487
Speaker 3: a swifty, but I loved how clever this conversation was

637
00:30:29,567 --> 00:30:31,647
Speaker 3: and how they were able to dissect it to say

638
00:30:31,687 --> 00:30:36,447
Speaker 3: things about feminism and heterosexuality and all the different things.

639
00:30:36,527 --> 00:30:39,567
Speaker 3: It is just such a good listen to very very smart.

640
00:30:39,287 --> 00:30:41,967
Speaker 1: Women and how they was interesting. The name of it

641
00:30:42,087 --> 00:30:46,767
Speaker 1: being swifty versus a swiftercrat, Caroline explained it that she

642
00:30:46,927 --> 00:30:51,087
Speaker 1: and her best friend made that distinction. So swifty is

643
00:30:51,127 --> 00:30:54,407
Speaker 1: someone that knows everything about Taylor in her life, and

644
00:30:54,487 --> 00:31:00,087
Speaker 1: a swift decrat is someone that kind of uses Taylor's art,

645
00:31:00,127 --> 00:31:04,447
Speaker 1: her songs, and her lyrics to understand their own life

646
00:31:04,727 --> 00:31:08,007
Speaker 1: and to interpret and make sense of their own life

647
00:31:08,207 --> 00:31:08,927
Speaker 1: and process it.

648
00:31:09,247 --> 00:31:10,047
Speaker 2: I'm obsessed with the war.

649
00:31:10,207 --> 00:31:10,847
Speaker 1: So interesting.

650
00:31:11,007 --> 00:31:13,447
Speaker 2: There's some good bits of gossip dropping it too, actually,

651
00:31:13,487 --> 00:31:15,487
Speaker 2: because I also listened to this loved it sick, even

652
00:31:15,487 --> 00:31:17,927
Speaker 2: though I'm not a massive, massive Swifty myself. Like the

653
00:31:17,967 --> 00:31:20,847
Speaker 2: stuff about Tom Hidlson that Taffy drops about how she

654
00:31:20,967 --> 00:31:23,167
Speaker 2: interviewed him just after the Taylor's.

655
00:31:22,767 --> 00:31:25,327
Speaker 1: Situation, that was an iconic I know I knew it.

656
00:31:25,407 --> 00:31:27,447
Speaker 2: But like, well, I mean, what the good bit of

657
00:31:27,447 --> 00:31:29,927
Speaker 2: gossip was her just talking about how much she adored

658
00:31:29,967 --> 00:31:31,847
Speaker 2: him and what a wonderful guy was, and how he

659
00:31:31,887 --> 00:31:34,207
Speaker 2: called her kids and like all that kind of stuff,

660
00:31:34,247 --> 00:31:36,767
Speaker 2: Like it's just a great chat. I love.

661
00:31:37,207 --> 00:31:39,367
Speaker 3: I didn't get to tell you guys either that when

662
00:31:39,367 --> 00:31:41,567
Speaker 3: I went and saw Dolly Alderton the other week, she

663
00:31:41,887 --> 00:31:44,287
Speaker 3: had the best Taylor Swift theory I think I've ever heard,

664
00:31:44,367 --> 00:31:49,287
Speaker 3: which was the reason why everyone is so obsessed with

665
00:31:49,527 --> 00:31:53,327
Speaker 3: Taylor Swift, particularly teenage girls, is because fame, which really

666
00:31:53,327 --> 00:31:56,607
Speaker 3: she's only written about fame for the last five ten years.

667
00:31:56,647 --> 00:31:59,167
Speaker 3: Fame has been the thing is exactly like being a

668
00:31:59,207 --> 00:32:02,367
Speaker 3: teenage girl, and instead of it being like, you know,

669
00:32:02,487 --> 00:32:06,327
Speaker 3: Stacy's bitching about me, it's like you can over relate

670
00:32:06,487 --> 00:32:09,087
Speaker 3: as a teenage girl. You overrelate to being famous because

671
00:32:09,287 --> 00:32:10,767
Speaker 3: exactly how it feels.

672
00:32:10,447 --> 00:32:12,967
Speaker 1: You go from being kind of invisible to being very

673
00:32:13,007 --> 00:32:16,247
Speaker 1: visible as the world. Yeah, it was interesting.

674
00:32:16,847 --> 00:32:19,087
Speaker 2: It is a glorious hour and a bit of your

675
00:32:19,127 --> 00:32:19,967
Speaker 2: life that show.

676
00:32:20,247 --> 00:32:23,127
Speaker 3: After the break, Maya has a nuanced that she wants

677
00:32:23,167 --> 00:32:24,847
Speaker 3: to share with the group. Is she being a dickhead?

678
00:32:25,087 --> 00:32:26,487
Speaker 3: Only you can decide.

679
00:32:26,527 --> 00:32:32,487
Speaker 1: Probably. Every Tuesday and Thursday, we drop new segments of

680
00:32:32,567 --> 00:32:34,447
Speaker 1: Mom and Me are out Loud just for Mum and

681
00:32:34,487 --> 00:32:37,087
Speaker 1: Me as subscribers. Follow the link in the show notes

682
00:32:37,127 --> 00:32:39,247
Speaker 1: to get your daily dose of out Loud and a

683
00:32:39,287 --> 00:32:55,607
Speaker 1: big thank you to everyone who has already subscribed. It's

684
00:32:55,647 --> 00:32:57,647
Speaker 1: time for Best and Worst, which is the part of

685
00:32:57,687 --> 00:33:00,727
Speaker 1: the show that explains itself. We share a little bit

686
00:33:00,767 --> 00:33:02,847
Speaker 1: more from our personal lives. I'm going to go first

687
00:33:03,447 --> 00:33:08,207
Speaker 1: my worst of the week. I've made peace with being

688
00:33:08,327 --> 00:33:10,967
Speaker 1: called nanas so part of my big thing. When Jesse

689
00:33:11,007 --> 00:33:12,927
Speaker 1: announced her pregnancy, Everyone's like, what are you going to

690
00:33:12,967 --> 00:33:15,047
Speaker 1: be called? I was like, I don't know, and everyone

691
00:33:15,127 --> 00:33:16,487
Speaker 1: has to make up funny names. I was going to

692
00:33:16,527 --> 00:33:18,167
Speaker 1: be me Me and that didn't take. So then I

693
00:33:18,247 --> 00:33:21,967
Speaker 1: was like, it's awkward giving yourself a nickname. I was like, okay,

694
00:33:22,007 --> 00:33:24,247
Speaker 1: you know what, Nana, I'm fine with Nana. I loved

695
00:33:24,287 --> 00:33:26,967
Speaker 1: my Nana. My kids call my mum Nana. You know.

696
00:33:27,167 --> 00:33:29,647
Speaker 3: The other day I was in the park and this

697
00:33:29,767 --> 00:33:33,887
Speaker 3: quite hot woman who might have been early forties hot,

698
00:33:34,447 --> 00:33:36,727
Speaker 3: was in an active way walking towards us, and Luna

699
00:33:36,727 --> 00:33:39,527
Speaker 3: got her finger out. She said, Nana. She thought that

700
00:33:39,567 --> 00:33:41,607
Speaker 3: hot woman was Nana, and I said no, no, no, Nana's

701
00:33:41,687 --> 00:33:42,247
Speaker 3: much older.

702
00:33:42,527 --> 00:33:49,167
Speaker 1: Or did she? Because what I've recently learned is that

703
00:33:49,247 --> 00:33:55,047
Speaker 1: Anne Stevens, Jesse's mum out Louder extraordinary mascot in the

704
00:33:55,087 --> 00:33:55,967
Speaker 1: out Louder's.

705
00:33:55,607 --> 00:33:58,127
Speaker 3: Facebook group, so she needs to be muted.

706
00:33:58,327 --> 00:34:00,007
Speaker 1: Also called Nana.

707
00:34:00,167 --> 00:34:01,527
Speaker 3: She has nanas and this has.

708
00:34:01,487 --> 00:34:04,647
Speaker 1: Sent me into this existential despair because I was very

709
00:34:04,687 --> 00:34:08,567
Speaker 1: anxious at first about my position on the leaderboard and

710
00:34:08,807 --> 00:34:11,167
Speaker 1: where I would be, because I realized I would be

711
00:34:11,207 --> 00:34:15,287
Speaker 1: quite far down beneath Jesse Claire. Oh sorry, Jesse Luca.

712
00:34:15,327 --> 00:34:19,407
Speaker 1: I always said, Jesse Claire, that order, Jesse Luca Claire,

713
00:34:19,607 --> 00:34:24,407
Speaker 1: Jesse's twin Ann, and then I'd be next. I felt, do.

714
00:34:24,407 --> 00:34:27,367
Speaker 3: You still feel that there's a leader board does not

715
00:34:27,407 --> 00:34:27,927
Speaker 3: have family?

716
00:34:28,007 --> 00:34:30,767
Speaker 1: No, I don't know. I don't feel like there's a

717
00:34:30,847 --> 00:34:35,127
Speaker 1: leaderboard anymore. However, my piece has been thrown into disrate

718
00:34:35,327 --> 00:34:38,287
Speaker 1: nice sledge on Anne. Anne's amazing, But I'm going to

719
00:34:38,327 --> 00:34:42,807
Speaker 1: petition that maybe she could be called Nan because I

720
00:34:42,927 --> 00:34:45,687
Speaker 1: think it's confusing. Because I think it's confusing to have

721
00:34:45,767 --> 00:34:48,287
Speaker 1: two people with the same name. What if I was

722
00:34:48,367 --> 00:34:51,687
Speaker 1: called Mama.

723
00:34:51,967 --> 00:34:54,287
Speaker 2: I think somebody's already called Yes.

724
00:34:54,647 --> 00:34:56,447
Speaker 1: Funny that someone has already called that.

725
00:34:56,447 --> 00:34:57,607
Speaker 3: How many babies though I.

726
00:34:57,567 --> 00:34:58,807
Speaker 1: Don't want to share my name.

727
00:34:59,047 --> 00:35:01,127
Speaker 3: Babies have two mums, Babies have two dads that don't

728
00:35:01,127 --> 00:35:01,847
Speaker 3: get here, but they.

729
00:35:01,727 --> 00:35:04,647
Speaker 1: Always call babies. I know babies with two moms or

730
00:35:04,647 --> 00:35:07,647
Speaker 1: two dads, and they have different names. They're not both mama. Really,

731
00:35:07,767 --> 00:35:12,567
Speaker 1: no one will be like Memu and one will be Mama,

732
00:35:12,887 --> 00:35:14,767
Speaker 1: or one will be mummy and one will be Ma.

733
00:35:16,207 --> 00:35:18,967
Speaker 1: So I want to know, if I want to know

734
00:35:19,007 --> 00:35:19,727
Speaker 1: if this is a thing.

735
00:35:19,807 --> 00:35:22,247
Speaker 2: So I need you gonna do this. This child for

736
00:35:22,327 --> 00:35:25,167
Speaker 2: out louders who are intimately involved in our lives as

737
00:35:25,287 --> 00:35:28,967
Speaker 2: we are this personal question. Here is one right, sixteen

738
00:35:29,007 --> 00:35:33,367
Speaker 2: months old. Luna is one as the ship sailed, I think,

739
00:35:33,407 --> 00:35:36,487
Speaker 2: so she knows Nana and Nana as far as I

740
00:35:36,527 --> 00:35:38,887
Speaker 2: can see, loves them both, spends lots of time with them.

741
00:35:38,927 --> 00:35:41,927
Speaker 1: Both. I'm not worried about my place. Life will make

742
00:35:42,327 --> 00:35:44,807
Speaker 1: How are you going to make her child? I tell

743
00:35:44,847 --> 00:35:47,287
Speaker 1: you so. One of the things I did for Luna

744
00:35:47,847 --> 00:35:49,967
Speaker 1: when these guys were not way earlier in the years,

745
00:35:49,967 --> 00:35:52,087
Speaker 1: I made these little albums with everyone's photos because I

746
00:35:52,087 --> 00:35:53,847
Speaker 1: remember my kids loved them. And her favorite thing to

747
00:35:53,887 --> 00:35:57,207
Speaker 1: do is to flick through the photos and name everybody.

748
00:35:57,247 --> 00:35:59,887
Speaker 1: And now she's got quite a good strike rate. She

749
00:36:00,247 --> 00:36:02,287
Speaker 1: points at your mom. This is how I learned, right,

750
00:36:02,407 --> 00:36:05,247
Speaker 1: because I thought your mum was grandma. And she pointed

751
00:36:05,727 --> 00:36:09,207
Speaker 1: at Anne. Her face lit up, which makes me so happy,

752
00:36:09,327 --> 00:36:13,087
Speaker 1: and goes Nana, And I was like, so Nan, temperature

753
00:36:13,127 --> 00:36:16,247
Speaker 1: in the room, plut. So now Anne.

754
00:36:16,047 --> 00:36:19,327
Speaker 3: Stevens's face is got out of every photo in the photo.

755
00:36:19,607 --> 00:36:22,727
Speaker 1: So now we go through the album together and I go, Nan,

756
00:36:25,607 --> 00:36:29,727
Speaker 1: we yah Na, that's no. We love man. But she's

757
00:36:29,767 --> 00:36:35,047
Speaker 1: called Nan. It's not taking at all, but I'm still working.

758
00:36:35,247 --> 00:36:37,567
Speaker 1: It's what all we do when she comes to my house. Now,

759
00:36:37,767 --> 00:36:40,647
Speaker 1: it's all we do. We just look at the photos

760
00:36:40,887 --> 00:36:44,047
Speaker 1: and we learn that that lady it is called Nan.

761
00:36:44,607 --> 00:36:46,527
Speaker 2: Oh my god.

762
00:36:46,527 --> 00:36:47,207
Speaker 3: She's insane.

763
00:36:47,407 --> 00:36:50,647
Speaker 2: She is insane. How did you react when this information

764
00:36:50,767 --> 00:36:51,367
Speaker 2: came your way?

765
00:36:51,567 --> 00:36:55,327
Speaker 3: Well, it only just came my name, didn't She's.

766
00:36:55,167 --> 00:36:58,927
Speaker 1: Like locally your mum's Bankay, isn't it funny though? How

767
00:36:58,967 --> 00:37:03,287
Speaker 1: I have like I've always got to find something to

768
00:37:03,487 --> 00:37:06,687
Speaker 1: be insecure or anxious about it. We need to pick

769
00:37:06,687 --> 00:37:07,527
Speaker 1: that up with my therapy.

770
00:37:07,687 --> 00:37:11,767
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, I'm the best. Today we have read oh

771
00:37:11,807 --> 00:37:12,167
Speaker 2: my best.

772
00:37:12,207 --> 00:37:15,087
Speaker 1: Sorry I forgot about that. My bears this week was

773
00:37:15,287 --> 00:37:19,327
Speaker 1: interviewing Jackie Oh who. I just bloody love her. She's

774
00:37:19,367 --> 00:37:22,127
Speaker 1: just a really good chick to interview. She's just no bullshit.

775
00:37:22,207 --> 00:37:24,847
Speaker 1: And she came in and I wanted to interview her

776
00:37:25,367 --> 00:37:27,967
Speaker 1: about her addiction, which she's written about in her memoir,

777
00:37:28,007 --> 00:37:30,207
Speaker 1: which is Another Wreck. I great read that book.

778
00:37:30,527 --> 00:37:32,447
Speaker 3: Everyone who's read it. It's really good.

779
00:37:33,207 --> 00:37:36,847
Speaker 1: It's really really good to she narrate the audio brilliant,

780
00:37:37,127 --> 00:37:39,127
Speaker 1: and I invited her in with Gemma, her best friend,

781
00:37:39,327 --> 00:37:42,367
Speaker 1: and they spoke about Jemma's experience of Jackie's addiction as well.

782
00:37:42,727 --> 00:37:45,567
Speaker 1: But what's so interesting about her is that because everyone

783
00:37:45,567 --> 00:37:47,887
Speaker 1: in here was pretty excited. You know, Jackie's a big

784
00:37:47,927 --> 00:37:52,767
Speaker 1: deal and an incredibly successful woman in media. So afterwards

785
00:37:52,807 --> 00:37:55,887
Speaker 1: we said, would you mind staying for another like half

786
00:37:55,887 --> 00:37:57,607
Speaker 1: an hour and just doing a Q and A with

787
00:37:57,687 --> 00:38:00,727
Speaker 1: the staff, and she was like, yeah, yeah, sure, no problem.

788
00:38:00,767 --> 00:38:03,007
Speaker 1: She's just so easy. She comes in just with Gemma.

789
00:38:03,087 --> 00:38:05,167
Speaker 1: And then afterwards it was a pretty heavy interview. There

790
00:38:05,207 --> 00:38:07,167
Speaker 1: were tears. It was like an hour and a half,

791
00:38:07,207 --> 00:38:10,247
Speaker 1: if not two hours probably, and she'd comes straight from

792
00:38:10,287 --> 00:38:12,047
Speaker 1: doing four hours that morning, and I'm like, do you

793
00:38:12,127 --> 00:38:14,327
Speaker 1: need like a drink? Most people come out of this studio,

794
00:38:14,407 --> 00:38:18,447
Speaker 1: including me, after a no filter, like unable to speak,

795
00:38:19,127 --> 00:38:22,447
Speaker 1: and she's like, oh no, I don't need to unwake.

796
00:38:22,487 --> 00:38:24,367
Speaker 1: You need a weed, you need a tea, We've got snacks.

797
00:38:24,407 --> 00:38:26,567
Speaker 1: She's like, no, no, let's just go. Let's go. It's fine,

798
00:38:26,607 --> 00:38:30,167
Speaker 1: no problem. And then she'd answered questions and was so

799
00:38:30,247 --> 00:38:32,887
Speaker 1: delightful for her another half an hour and then I

800
00:38:32,927 --> 00:38:34,287
Speaker 1: was like, oh, look, Jack probably has to go, and

801
00:38:34,287 --> 00:38:35,727
Speaker 1: she's like, no, no, there's more questions.

802
00:38:35,807 --> 00:38:37,887
Speaker 2: Can answer more questions. She did selfies, if everyone who

803
00:38:37,927 --> 00:38:41,847
Speaker 2: wanted selfies. Just a delightful person. Nicole her works and

804
00:38:42,127 --> 00:38:44,127
Speaker 2: people in Contububa nearly helped her.

805
00:38:45,807 --> 00:38:48,447
Speaker 1: When you're as famous as Jack, I've met a lot

806
00:38:48,487 --> 00:38:52,167
Speaker 1: of famous people and you don't always have to be

807
00:38:52,327 --> 00:38:55,207
Speaker 1: that generous, but she's one of those people that knows

808
00:38:56,087 --> 00:38:59,767
Speaker 1: she has the power to make or break someone's day, week, month,

809
00:38:59,887 --> 00:39:02,367
Speaker 1: year by just giving them a little bit of her.

810
00:39:02,967 --> 00:39:05,647
Speaker 1: And she was just so generous with her time. When

811
00:39:05,687 --> 00:39:08,407
Speaker 1: everyone wants a piece of you, that's a big ask anyway,

812
00:39:08,487 --> 00:39:09,887
Speaker 1: great book loved saying.

813
00:39:09,927 --> 00:39:12,487
Speaker 3: I'm excited about that, and I feelter My worst.

814
00:39:12,167 --> 00:39:12,887
Speaker 1: Of the week is.

815
00:39:13,047 --> 00:39:15,847
Speaker 2: The thing about having kids is that sometimes you don't

816
00:39:15,887 --> 00:39:18,527
Speaker 2: notice milestones exactly as they're happening, but a little bit

817
00:39:18,567 --> 00:39:20,087
Speaker 2: afterwards you go, oh, that's new.

818
00:39:20,287 --> 00:39:21,927
Speaker 3: That's new though that was the last time.

819
00:39:22,047 --> 00:39:22,887
Speaker 1: Yeah.

820
00:39:22,927 --> 00:39:25,487
Speaker 2: And what I've noticed is new in my house with

821
00:39:25,607 --> 00:39:29,367
Speaker 2: my twelve and fourteen nearly fifteen year old is closed

822
00:39:29,407 --> 00:39:33,167
Speaker 2: bedroom doors for ages when your kids are little. Maybe

823
00:39:33,207 --> 00:39:35,967
Speaker 2: everyone's house isn't like this, but their bedroom doors are open.

824
00:39:36,167 --> 00:39:38,287
Speaker 2: You're walking in and out. Everybody's walking in and out,

825
00:39:38,487 --> 00:39:41,007
Speaker 2: and they don't actually spend that much time in there anyway.

826
00:39:41,047 --> 00:39:43,127
Speaker 2: They'd probably rather be around you a little bit, or

827
00:39:43,167 --> 00:39:45,927
Speaker 2: out in the world or whatever. And I've just got

828
00:39:45,967 --> 00:39:48,447
Speaker 2: to that point with the kids where Billy only just

829
00:39:48,487 --> 00:39:52,007
Speaker 2: a little bit more, but Matilda very much. Where they

830
00:39:52,607 --> 00:39:54,607
Speaker 2: want to be in their rooms and the door is closed,

831
00:39:55,207 --> 00:39:57,607
Speaker 2: and I don't think they're doing anything nefarious in their

832
00:39:57,647 --> 00:40:00,767
Speaker 2: Oh no, they probably are. But what I remember is

833
00:40:00,887 --> 00:40:04,167
Speaker 2: I remember very intently being about the age that Matilda was,

834
00:40:04,167 --> 00:40:08,407
Speaker 2: and my bedroom was my world, right, like the posters

835
00:40:08,447 --> 00:40:13,487
Speaker 2: on the wall, you know, my music. Oh, she's always

836
00:40:13,567 --> 00:40:16,247
Speaker 2: printing out new pictures and putting them up. Your room

837
00:40:16,367 --> 00:40:18,607
Speaker 2: is your sanctuary, right, and it's your thing. And when

838
00:40:18,607 --> 00:40:22,127
Speaker 2: they're little, it's not like that you control, yes, And

839
00:40:22,127 --> 00:40:23,687
Speaker 2: when they're little, their room is just the place where

840
00:40:23,687 --> 00:40:26,967
Speaker 2: their toys are, you know. But now the door is closed,

841
00:40:26,967 --> 00:40:29,447
Speaker 2: and I was not before I go in, But I'm like, oh,

842
00:40:29,887 --> 00:40:32,887
Speaker 2: this is the new era and it's very normal and

843
00:40:32,927 --> 00:40:36,647
Speaker 2: it's exactly how it should be. She is literally closing

844
00:40:36,687 --> 00:40:38,327
Speaker 2: a door between me and her.

845
00:40:38,767 --> 00:40:40,927
Speaker 1: Do you have your bedroom door closed?

846
00:40:41,127 --> 00:40:43,687
Speaker 2: Not very often, which we should do more, just for

847
00:40:43,767 --> 00:40:47,087
Speaker 2: sexy times, but we don't like I'm a bit funny

848
00:40:47,087 --> 00:40:50,287
Speaker 2: with closed doors. I think I'm a bit claustrophobic. I

849
00:40:50,367 --> 00:40:53,087
Speaker 2: don't really like doors being closed either door, and so

850
00:40:53,127 --> 00:40:56,087
Speaker 2: I'm much happier to have doors open. I agree, And

851
00:40:56,287 --> 00:41:01,127
Speaker 2: I always, yeah, I always feel like I'm breaching my

852
00:41:01,207 --> 00:41:02,807
Speaker 2: parental responsibilities.

853
00:41:03,207 --> 00:41:05,007
Speaker 1: But it's not even a should. It's that when my

854
00:41:05,127 --> 00:41:08,607
Speaker 1: kids are in the house. Yeah, part claustrophobia and also

855
00:41:08,687 --> 00:41:10,607
Speaker 1: part I want them to be able to have access.

856
00:41:10,727 --> 00:41:13,127
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you can hear a little bit what's going on,

857
00:41:13,487 --> 00:41:15,367
Speaker 2: so it's very normal. But it made me. I was

858
00:41:15,407 --> 00:41:17,647
Speaker 2: thinking about it this week and just noticing how many

859
00:41:17,687 --> 00:41:19,927
Speaker 2: times I'm going up to the doors now, you know,

860
00:41:19,967 --> 00:41:23,407
Speaker 2: with like fricking washing or snacks or come and do this,

861
00:41:23,487 --> 00:41:26,287
Speaker 2: you lazy buggers or whatever it is, and the doors

862
00:41:26,287 --> 00:41:28,447
Speaker 2: are closed, and I'm like, oh, and it made me

863
00:41:28,527 --> 00:41:32,607
Speaker 2: realize this is one of those moments where they're just a.

864
00:41:32,527 --> 00:41:35,407
Speaker 1: Little bit further away. Yeah, so so interesting.

865
00:41:35,487 --> 00:41:37,087
Speaker 2: It's great, Like I mean, obviously there's a lot of

866
00:41:37,167 --> 00:41:38,647
Speaker 2: joy in watching them grow up, but it's also a

867
00:41:38,687 --> 00:41:41,847
Speaker 2: little bit My best is and I was talking before

868
00:41:41,847 --> 00:41:43,687
Speaker 2: about how I'm reading this very fun book and I've

869
00:41:43,687 --> 00:41:46,127
Speaker 2: been really really getting back into reading in a big

870
00:41:46,167 --> 00:41:47,847
Speaker 2: way lately, which is great because it's always been one

871
00:41:47,887 --> 00:41:49,447
Speaker 2: of the joys of my life. But when I'm really

872
00:41:49,447 --> 00:41:51,807
Speaker 2: stressed and busy, it's one of the things to go

873
00:41:52,007 --> 00:41:52,527
Speaker 2: and do.

874
00:41:52,527 --> 00:41:55,647
Speaker 1: You also stop reading when you're writing, Well I used.

875
00:41:55,447 --> 00:41:58,007
Speaker 2: To, but I'm actually trying not to do that. What

876
00:41:58,047 --> 00:42:00,167
Speaker 2: I've realized is ever since I was a kid. The

877
00:42:00,167 --> 00:42:01,567
Speaker 2: whole reason I want to be a writer and work

878
00:42:01,567 --> 00:42:04,487
Speaker 2: with words is because I've always loved books, right, But

879
00:42:04,607 --> 00:42:08,487
Speaker 2: then as you get older, books become a luxury, like, oh,

880
00:42:08,607 --> 00:42:11,527
Speaker 2: imagine having the time to sit around and read a book,

881
00:42:11,607 --> 00:42:14,887
Speaker 2: you know, and certainly in the very heavy busy years

882
00:42:14,887 --> 00:42:17,327
Speaker 2: of kids and working kids and work, like, the idea

883
00:42:17,367 --> 00:42:19,327
Speaker 2: that you might sit down for twenty minutes and read

884
00:42:19,327 --> 00:42:21,847
Speaker 2: a book just seems like you can't even imagine it.

885
00:42:22,607 --> 00:42:25,927
Speaker 2: But what I've realized lately and as I'm writing things too,

886
00:42:25,967 --> 00:42:29,167
Speaker 2: that it's the only thing that a makes you better

887
00:42:29,287 --> 00:42:33,007
Speaker 2: at writing is reading pushes you into new places with

888
00:42:33,047 --> 00:42:35,447
Speaker 2: what you're doing. And also it's a form of rest.

889
00:42:35,567 --> 00:42:35,767
Speaker 1: You know.

890
00:42:35,767 --> 00:42:38,687
Speaker 2: We've talked before about different forms of rest, Like people

891
00:42:38,727 --> 00:42:40,367
Speaker 2: say rest and you're like, well, I'm not a line

892
00:42:40,367 --> 00:42:43,407
Speaker 2: around doing nothing kind of person. But reading is rest

893
00:42:43,647 --> 00:42:44,567
Speaker 2: a certain kind of rest.

894
00:42:44,647 --> 00:42:46,887
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, and it can be creative rest.

895
00:42:46,967 --> 00:42:49,527
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's creative rest for sure. Anyway, the reason it's

896
00:42:49,567 --> 00:42:52,127
Speaker 2: my best is I've implemented a new routine. You like this,

897
00:42:52,287 --> 00:42:54,727
Speaker 2: just you like a routine. We'll see how long it lasts.

898
00:42:54,727 --> 00:42:56,567
Speaker 2: Probably a couple of days because it's been going for

899
00:42:56,567 --> 00:42:58,807
Speaker 2: a couple of weeks now when I'm working at home

900
00:42:58,967 --> 00:43:00,767
Speaker 2: or I've got days at home where I've got some

901
00:43:00,807 --> 00:43:02,607
Speaker 2: work to do. Some of the things I make lists.

902
00:43:02,647 --> 00:43:04,967
Speaker 2: That's what I do. I go right between ten and

903
00:43:04,967 --> 00:43:09,287
Speaker 2: eleven today we are answering emails. Between this time and

904
00:43:09,407 --> 00:43:12,047
Speaker 2: this time. We're writing a script for the mid intro.

905
00:43:12,487 --> 00:43:14,967
Speaker 2: Between this time, maybe we're doing some exercise.

906
00:43:15,407 --> 00:43:17,647
Speaker 1: Where do you write this on a piece of paper?

907
00:43:17,727 --> 00:43:20,687
Speaker 2: Usually literally so I can literally cross it off, but

908
00:43:20,847 --> 00:43:24,567
Speaker 2: the schedule helps me. Yeah, And what I've been doing

909
00:43:24,647 --> 00:43:27,807
Speaker 2: lately is I go and then between one and one

910
00:43:28,007 --> 00:43:29,407
Speaker 2: thirty we're reading a book.

911
00:43:29,567 --> 00:43:32,807
Speaker 1: Oh wow, So not just because I usually my reading

912
00:43:32,847 --> 00:43:34,607
Speaker 1: time is when I get into bed, but then I

913
00:43:34,647 --> 00:43:35,167
Speaker 1: just fall away.

914
00:43:35,207 --> 00:43:37,527
Speaker 2: The thing is I because that's always been my reading

915
00:43:37,567 --> 00:43:40,607
Speaker 2: time too, and sometimes it gets hijacked by our phone addictions, right,

916
00:43:40,607 --> 00:43:44,567
Speaker 2: which obviously we're trying whatever. And then also I often

917
00:43:44,647 --> 00:43:47,327
Speaker 2: just fall asleep. It's like either look to break up

918
00:43:47,407 --> 00:43:49,527
Speaker 2: or maybe five o'clock or half past five, or you know,

919
00:43:49,607 --> 00:43:52,087
Speaker 2: like some really random time of the day. And even

920
00:43:52,127 --> 00:43:53,847
Speaker 2: on weekends, if I'm like trying to get I'll go

921
00:43:54,247 --> 00:43:57,167
Speaker 2: this half hour here is reading a book time and

922
00:43:57,207 --> 00:43:59,447
Speaker 2: I sit on my chair and I read the book

923
00:43:59,527 --> 00:44:00,767
Speaker 2: and then I cross it off back.

924
00:44:00,767 --> 00:44:03,487
Speaker 3: And it's also like you've hacked it into feeling productive

925
00:44:03,487 --> 00:44:04,847
Speaker 3: because it's on the list what must be.

926
00:44:04,807 --> 00:44:05,327
Speaker 1: Done well I have.

927
00:44:05,407 --> 00:44:09,167
Speaker 2: But also actually reading is part of my job. I

928
00:44:09,287 --> 00:44:11,167
Speaker 2: mean not like now like sorry me, I we're not

929
00:44:11,167 --> 00:44:12,727
Speaker 2: recording a show, I'm going to go and read my

930
00:44:12,767 --> 00:44:13,567
Speaker 2: Allen Hilda.

931
00:44:13,407 --> 00:44:15,927
Speaker 1: Brown, I can expect it.

932
00:44:16,047 --> 00:44:18,607
Speaker 2: Not that, but like it is actually part of my

933
00:44:18,927 --> 00:44:20,407
Speaker 2: general job to be reading.

934
00:44:20,767 --> 00:44:23,447
Speaker 1: And so why have I liked the weird thing about.

935
00:44:23,287 --> 00:44:25,247
Speaker 2: Carving out time? And I know that obviously not everybody

936
00:44:25,247 --> 00:44:27,807
Speaker 2: can do it like that, but if it's like six

937
00:44:27,927 --> 00:44:30,127
Speaker 2: till six thirty or early in the morning or whatever,

938
00:44:30,127 --> 00:44:32,687
Speaker 2: you've got it, Like it's somehow writing it down and

939
00:44:32,687 --> 00:44:35,127
Speaker 2: putting it in your schedule gives you permission to do it.

940
00:44:35,167 --> 00:44:38,327
Speaker 2: And you shouldn't need permission to spend twenty minutes reading

941
00:44:38,327 --> 00:44:40,007
Speaker 2: a book, but somehow you do.

942
00:44:40,007 --> 00:44:41,447
Speaker 1: Do you know what I mean that instead of like

943
00:44:41,527 --> 00:44:43,527
Speaker 1: just cramming it in the spaces.

944
00:44:43,167 --> 00:44:46,327
Speaker 2: I'm like mindfully taking a moment to read a book.

945
00:44:46,567 --> 00:44:48,207
Speaker 2: And it's working for me and that has been my

946
00:44:48,247 --> 00:44:49,407
Speaker 2: best this week.

947
00:44:49,487 --> 00:44:52,527
Speaker 3: I love it. Jesse ste My worst is not going

948
00:44:52,567 --> 00:44:53,127
Speaker 3: to Coldplay.

949
00:44:53,207 --> 00:44:53,527
Speaker 2: I'm sick.

950
00:44:53,567 --> 00:44:56,407
Speaker 3: I'm not going Darling like every time I have them

951
00:44:56,407 --> 00:44:58,807
Speaker 3: With Taylor Swift too, everyone's like, I'm going to Coldplay,

952
00:44:58,807 --> 00:45:02,367
Speaker 3: and I'm like, excuse me. Firstly, when did we get tickets? Secondly,

953
00:45:02,407 --> 00:45:03,727
Speaker 3: when do we learn Coldplayer was here?

954
00:45:03,727 --> 00:45:06,287
Speaker 1: And I agree with you apart from Taylor or firstly,

955
00:45:06,367 --> 00:45:07,927
Speaker 1: I don't like going to concerts a part of Taylor,

956
00:45:07,967 --> 00:45:11,167
Speaker 1: but I don't understand how everyone knows that when people

957
00:45:11,167 --> 00:45:11,887
Speaker 1: are here, if.

958
00:45:11,767 --> 00:45:14,087
Speaker 3: People are just so on it. I've never gotten into

959
00:45:14,127 --> 00:45:14,927
Speaker 3: a que anywhere.

960
00:45:15,287 --> 00:45:16,887
Speaker 1: How are they on it? Like it was different with

961
00:45:16,927 --> 00:45:21,327
Speaker 1: Taylor because it was just everywhere across media. Sorry, I

962
00:45:21,407 --> 00:45:24,207
Speaker 1: just bang the camera. It was just everywhere. Everybody knew it.

963
00:45:24,207 --> 00:45:26,447
Speaker 1: It was like a cultural event, certainly in our workplace.

964
00:45:26,527 --> 00:45:29,047
Speaker 1: The world stopped. But how do people know?

965
00:45:29,127 --> 00:45:31,727
Speaker 3: I vaguely remember the Coldplay thing popping up and my

966
00:45:31,887 --> 00:45:32,807
Speaker 3: mum bought tickets.

967
00:45:32,807 --> 00:45:33,407
Speaker 1: How long ago?

968
00:45:33,727 --> 00:45:36,447
Speaker 3: I reckon it was like a year. Mum bought tickets,

969
00:45:36,487 --> 00:45:38,087
Speaker 3: and I'm always like, well, where am I going to

970
00:45:38,087 --> 00:45:40,207
Speaker 3: be in years? That's also true, you just don't know,

971
00:45:40,447 --> 00:45:42,087
Speaker 3: and so didn't get them. And then I see everyone

972
00:45:42,167 --> 00:45:44,847
Speaker 3: go wondering why or not at all exactly, and everyone

973
00:45:44,887 --> 00:45:46,887
Speaker 3: has this spiritual experience, and I'm like, well, I'd have

974
00:45:47,087 --> 00:45:49,927
Speaker 3: liked to go, but I am at home on my phone.

975
00:45:49,967 --> 00:45:52,207
Speaker 1: Did you ask your mom how she knew they were touring?

976
00:45:52,487 --> 00:45:54,447
Speaker 3: She had that thing where she got tickets and then

977
00:45:54,487 --> 00:45:56,727
Speaker 3: she like told a bunch of friends and her daughters

978
00:45:57,007 --> 00:45:59,007
Speaker 3: so that everyone would kind of fight for the tickets.

979
00:45:59,167 --> 00:46:00,647
Speaker 3: And I don't know who took but didn't take me.

980
00:46:00,687 --> 00:46:02,727
Speaker 3: I kind of assumed she would ask me last minute.

981
00:46:02,887 --> 00:46:04,487
Speaker 3: Let's just say she didn't. I don't know who she.

982
00:46:04,647 --> 00:46:07,327
Speaker 2: Just because you haven't given her own grandma now exactly.

983
00:46:07,647 --> 00:46:12,767
Speaker 1: Everybody did say that it was a transcendent experience, that concept.

984
00:46:12,847 --> 00:46:13,767
Speaker 1: I had great things.

985
00:46:14,407 --> 00:46:18,687
Speaker 3: My best is Book Babies. So there's this thing at

986
00:46:18,727 --> 00:46:21,287
Speaker 3: my local library. It's a nine thirty If I can,

987
00:46:21,447 --> 00:46:23,367
Speaker 3: I try and go twice a week, but at the

988
00:46:23,407 --> 00:46:27,527
Speaker 3: very least I go once. Yeah, just me and the babies.

989
00:46:27,567 --> 00:46:29,727
Speaker 3: It is maybe a four minute walk from my house

990
00:46:29,807 --> 00:46:33,047
Speaker 3: the library. We go up in our little pram and

991
00:46:33,087 --> 00:46:35,047
Speaker 3: we go to Book Babies where we do our songs,

992
00:46:35,127 --> 00:46:38,207
Speaker 3: a big story, like read the story. Someone like a

993
00:46:38,287 --> 00:46:41,167
Speaker 3: volunteer from the library, and there's maybe fifteen or twenty

994
00:46:41,207 --> 00:46:45,367
Speaker 3: other babies, and I just love it, like it is

995
00:46:45,527 --> 00:46:49,007
Speaker 3: such a vibe. It is like watching Luna watch other

996
00:46:49,047 --> 00:46:50,927
Speaker 3: things and just getting out of the house, because you know,

997
00:46:50,967 --> 00:46:53,007
Speaker 3: it's one thing to sit there and read stories on it,

998
00:46:53,087 --> 00:46:54,967
Speaker 3: but to have someone else do it. She's always in

999
00:46:55,007 --> 00:46:56,607
Speaker 3: such a good mood once we do it. Then we

1000
00:46:56,687 --> 00:46:59,207
Speaker 3: go the toy library. It's part of our routine where

1001
00:46:59,247 --> 00:47:03,407
Speaker 3: we borrow and return our toys. Sometimes Cousin Matilda joins

1002
00:47:03,487 --> 00:47:07,087
Speaker 3: us and Auntie Claire. And it's just such a vibe.

1003
00:47:07,127 --> 00:47:09,687
Speaker 3: And so I've been really leaning into it lately, and

1004
00:47:10,127 --> 00:47:12,687
Speaker 3: I just love that there are free things like that. Yeah,

1005
00:47:12,887 --> 00:47:14,607
Speaker 3: the mast that's a great thing about.

1006
00:47:14,727 --> 00:47:16,647
Speaker 2: Library's absolutely nailed it.

1007
00:47:16,727 --> 00:47:19,927
Speaker 1: I think that what I've found hardest about being home

1008
00:47:20,047 --> 00:47:23,687
Speaker 1: with babies is being home with babies literally home. I

1009
00:47:23,767 --> 00:47:25,847
Speaker 1: found it very hard to get out of the house

1010
00:47:26,487 --> 00:47:28,887
Speaker 1: because it just seemed like too many steps, and I

1011
00:47:29,007 --> 00:47:31,247
Speaker 1: found it really hard to have to be anywhere at

1012
00:47:31,287 --> 00:47:33,607
Speaker 1: a certain time and all of those things. But the

1013
00:47:33,687 --> 00:47:37,287
Speaker 1: days are long, the days are really long, and doing

1014
00:47:37,327 --> 00:47:40,527
Speaker 1: something like that gives you short You just have to

1015
00:47:40,567 --> 00:47:43,967
Speaker 1: walk there it every day. Because I always found it

1016
00:47:43,967 --> 00:47:47,687
Speaker 1: hard to make arrangements with friends because I didn't know

1017
00:47:47,767 --> 00:47:49,607
Speaker 1: how that night would have gone on or how that day.

1018
00:47:49,647 --> 00:47:52,607
Speaker 1: So I never wanted the claustrophobia of anyone depending on me.

1019
00:47:53,047 --> 00:47:55,127
Speaker 3: Yeah, and this is literally twenty minutes and I turn

1020
00:47:55,207 --> 00:47:57,927
Speaker 3: up with the breakfast, not turn up date of me

1021
00:47:57,967 --> 00:47:59,607
Speaker 3: when I show up, and I'm like, who's going to

1022
00:47:59,687 --> 00:48:00,007
Speaker 3: judge me?

1023
00:48:00,167 --> 00:48:02,527
Speaker 1: Activity? You need activity in the morning and activity in

1024
00:48:02,527 --> 00:48:03,087
Speaker 1: the afternoon.

1025
00:48:03,167 --> 00:48:05,647
Speaker 2: It's funny how you rediscover libraries in a big way

1026
00:48:05,647 --> 00:48:07,407
Speaker 2: at different times in your life, and that's one of

1027
00:48:07,407 --> 00:48:09,007
Speaker 2: them when your kids are little and you remember, like,

1028
00:48:09,327 --> 00:48:11,847
Speaker 2: this is amazing, it's free and it's in my neighborhood.

1029
00:48:12,487 --> 00:48:15,367
Speaker 3: Does everyone know about libraries? Like libraries? You can get

1030
00:48:15,367 --> 00:48:17,767
Speaker 3: books there, They're super cheap.

1031
00:48:17,807 --> 00:48:18,927
Speaker 2: You can work there right there.

1032
00:48:19,127 --> 00:48:20,727
Speaker 3: You do it your borrow and then you give them.

1033
00:48:20,607 --> 00:48:24,047
Speaker 1: Back, then you get another one. Have you heard of that?

1034
00:48:24,727 --> 00:48:27,407
Speaker 2: Okay, lad As, I think we've gone a little a

1035
00:48:27,407 --> 00:48:30,567
Speaker 2: little cuckoo. That is all we have time for today.

1036
00:48:30,927 --> 00:48:32,567
Speaker 2: Big thank you to all of you for being here

1037
00:48:32,567 --> 00:48:34,007
Speaker 2: with us this week. Of course we're going to be

1038
00:48:34,007 --> 00:48:36,047
Speaker 2: back into His next week. Maya read us.

1039
00:48:35,927 --> 00:48:38,567
Speaker 1: Out A big thank you to our team. Executive producer

1040
00:48:38,647 --> 00:48:41,607
Speaker 1: Ruth Divine who owns being a dickhead when she machine

1041
00:48:41,647 --> 00:48:44,967
Speaker 1: guns instructions at her husband and sons and expects them

1042
00:48:45,007 --> 00:48:49,287
Speaker 1: to do it all now. Senior producer Emmeline Gazillas is

1043
00:48:49,287 --> 00:48:51,607
Speaker 1: a dickhead when she waits for the nicole of her

1044
00:48:51,647 --> 00:48:55,767
Speaker 1: friendship group to organize catch ups or maybe by coplay tickets,

1045
00:48:56,167 --> 00:48:59,207
Speaker 1: maybe even suggesting to the nicole, Hey, we should all

1046
00:48:59,367 --> 00:49:01,847
Speaker 1: come as a catch up soon, but never organize. Oh

1047
00:49:01,927 --> 00:49:05,447
Speaker 1: my god, I do that. That's so true. And of course,

1048
00:49:05,447 --> 00:49:08,727
Speaker 1: our audio producer is Leahpaordos. Her dickhead list includes when

1049
00:49:08,727 --> 00:49:11,167
Speaker 1: she forgets to eat and then wonders why she is

1050
00:49:11,367 --> 00:49:15,807
Speaker 1: angry and snippy with everyone. Our social media producer Isabel Dolphin,

1051
00:49:15,847 --> 00:49:17,607
Speaker 1: has a bit of a reputation amongst her friends for

1052
00:49:17,687 --> 00:49:19,407
Speaker 1: being a dickhead when it comes to packing for a

1053
00:49:19,407 --> 00:49:23,287
Speaker 1: girl's trip, always assuming they'll bring all the essentials, she forgets.

1054
00:49:23,407 --> 00:49:26,287
Speaker 3: The dickhead never packs toothpaste.

1055
00:49:25,847 --> 00:49:29,247
Speaker 1: Or a phone charger. And Josh Green, our video producer,

1056
00:49:29,287 --> 00:49:31,887
Speaker 1: his dickhead list includes getting too absorbed in his hobbies

1057
00:49:31,887 --> 00:49:33,567
Speaker 1: and forgetting to spend time with his wife.

1058
00:49:33,647 --> 00:49:40,487
Speaker 2: Oh byeity bye bye. Shout out to any Mamma Mia

1059
00:49:40,527 --> 00:49:43,367
Speaker 2: subscribers listening. If you love the show and you want

1060
00:49:43,407 --> 00:49:46,407
Speaker 2: to support us, subscribing to Mamma Mia is the very

1061
00:49:46,447 --> 00:49:48,407
Speaker 2: best way to do it. There's a link in the

1062
00:49:48,527 --> 00:49:49,447
Speaker 2: episode description