WEBVTT - Why You Can't Switch Off (And What To Do About It) 0:00:06.170 --> 0:00:09.290 You're listening to a Muma Mia podcast. 0:00:13.770 --> 0:00:17.570 Hello and welcome to biz. Your work life sorted and 0:00:17.689 --> 0:00:20.489 welcome to the new era of BIZ. It is going 0:00:20.570 --> 0:00:22.409 to be like a tailor swift era. We're going to 0:00:22.490 --> 0:00:24.489 go through it all, but we are going to give 0:00:24.490 --> 0:00:27.290 you a whole bunch of new things to work through, 0:00:27.530 --> 0:00:29.650 like some more knowledge for you. It's also going to 0:00:29.690 --> 0:00:33.090 be really fun and exciting, because work and career can 0:00:33.210 --> 0:00:36.330 be fun and exciting. We also have a new co host, 0:00:36.490 --> 0:00:38.250 Lisa Welcome to Biz. 0:00:38.490 --> 0:00:39.650 Hey am, I'm Lisa Lee. 0:00:39.810 --> 0:00:42.530 I'm a former head of People in Culture and organizational 0:00:42.570 --> 0:00:45.090 coach and the founder of Learner, a micro learning app 0:00:45.090 --> 0:00:47.250 that helps you build the people skills to solve real 0:00:47.290 --> 0:00:48.490 work problems fast. 0:00:48.810 --> 0:00:51.810 I've been using Learner a lot. It's so good. I 0:00:51.850 --> 0:00:53.930 highly recommend everyone to jump on it. We'll put a 0:00:53.970 --> 0:00:55.610 link in our show notes so you can download it 0:00:55.690 --> 0:00:58.450 from the app store. I don't think I've probably introduced 0:00:58.490 --> 0:01:02.330 myself on this podcast either. I'm m Vernon, associate editor 0:01:02.490 --> 0:01:05.450 and host. Here at Mama Mia, we are very very 0:01:05.610 --> 0:01:09.010 excited to be stepping into the hosting chairs of BIZ 0:01:09.090 --> 0:01:12.169 for our Tuesday episodes. First and foremost, we have to 0:01:12.209 --> 0:01:15.769 thank Michelle Batisby and so Hurst, our brilliant career coaches 0:01:15.809 --> 0:01:20.209 from season one. They did an incredible job launching Biz 0:01:20.330 --> 0:01:23.610 Tuesday's episodes and they will be dearly missed. But we 0:01:23.729 --> 0:01:26.449 can't wait to keep bringing you all the practical advice 0:01:26.770 --> 0:01:29.569 inside of knowledge you've come to expect from us. So, 0:01:29.610 --> 0:01:32.169 whether you're a regular or you've just dropped in, welcome 0:01:32.369 --> 0:01:35.130 to the next chapter of BIZ. We are here for 0:01:35.250 --> 0:01:39.490 real and practical conversations about career growth, leadership, and how 0:01:39.530 --> 0:01:42.850 to make work actually work on your terms. 0:01:43.449 --> 0:01:46.050 Today we're diving into a topic that's definitely hit me 0:01:46.089 --> 0:01:47.490 hard at different points in my career. 0:01:47.970 --> 0:01:49.090 The workaholic trap. 0:01:50.010 --> 0:01:52.770 You know, it feeling like you should always be working, 0:01:53.370 --> 0:01:55.010 even when you're not sure it's getting you anywhere. 0:01:55.090 --> 0:01:58.610 Yeah, it's like that always on, right, Like you are 0:01:58.650 --> 0:02:01.610 constantly thinking about work, and when you're not thinking about work, 0:02:01.610 --> 0:02:03.529 it's because you're doing work and that's it. 0:02:03.930 --> 0:02:06.930 Yeah, they're always on feeling exactly, And I think a 0:02:06.970 --> 0:02:09.130 lot of us, especially if you came up on that 0:02:09.330 --> 0:02:14.050 girl boss hustle culture stage of life, have fallen into 0:02:14.050 --> 0:02:15.970 this trap at some point because it's what was expected 0:02:16.010 --> 0:02:18.410 of us and it's where we saw people achieving and 0:02:18.410 --> 0:02:21.970 so success. So today when I'm packing, why it happens, 0:02:22.170 --> 0:02:25.170 how to spot it in yourself, and most importantly, how 0:02:25.210 --> 0:02:29.410 to start breaking free from it? 0:02:32.690 --> 0:02:36.890 Okay Li. So we asked around about the workaholic tendencies 0:02:37.170 --> 0:02:40.770 and the confessions we got. Well, yes, some of them 0:02:40.810 --> 0:02:44.210 were very funny, also very concerning. Here's what we got. 0:02:44.730 --> 0:02:47.370 Hi, I'm Alicia and I'm a bit of a workaholic. 0:02:47.570 --> 0:02:50.210 I haven't taken a proper holiday in three years because 0:02:50.250 --> 0:02:53.610 I'm afraid everything will fall apart without me. Three years 0:02:53.690 --> 0:02:55.130 is insane, I know. 0:02:56.330 --> 0:02:57.410 Let me just swish off. 0:02:58.090 --> 0:02:58.250 Hi. 0:02:58.330 --> 0:02:59.850 I'm Ella and I'm a workaholic. 0:03:00.050 --> 0:03:01.450 I have no boundaries. 0:03:01.490 --> 0:03:04.570 I've even replied to emails during my kids' school concerts. 0:03:04.770 --> 0:03:06.450 Email addictions real, it is real. 0:03:06.690 --> 0:03:08.810 I feel slightly better about mine. 0:03:09.050 --> 0:03:09.250 Hi. 0:03:09.370 --> 0:03:12.370 I'm Tina and I'm a bit of a workaholic. I 0:03:12.650 --> 0:03:16.090 never have my work notifications turned off. I'm always free 0:03:16.130 --> 0:03:18.410 to answer the phone no matter what time it is, 0:03:18.930 --> 0:03:22.570 Constantly getting back to emails day and night. I've got 0:03:22.610 --> 0:03:24.090 a bit of a problem. 0:03:24.530 --> 0:03:28.450 No, Tina, there's no good near switch off girl. 0:03:28.690 --> 0:03:30.690 Hi, I'm Zara and I'm a workaholic. 0:03:31.010 --> 0:03:33.010 I really love what I do, but I've worked through 0:03:33.090 --> 0:03:34.570 every public holiday this year. 0:03:34.730 --> 0:03:38.410 It's a tough one. I relate to that hard related holiday. 0:03:38.650 --> 0:03:40.050 Yeah, that's no good. 0:03:40.690 --> 0:03:43.250 I talk to so many people at the moment who 0:03:43.490 --> 0:03:46.770 are coming in and out of this workaholic trap too. Sorry, 0:03:46.930 --> 0:03:49.490 there's a lot of people feeling it. I think we 0:03:49.490 --> 0:03:53.290 should talk about where this trap actually starts, because it 0:03:53.370 --> 0:03:56.210 usually doesn't just come from nowhere. For me, it built 0:03:56.330 --> 0:03:58.650 up really early, and it built up from something really simple, 0:03:58.850 --> 0:03:59.810 like I work hard. 0:04:00.410 --> 0:04:02.450 You've picked that up already done a few things. 0:04:02.690 --> 0:04:04.850 I've always really enjoyed what I do, though, and so 0:04:04.890 --> 0:04:07.650 I've confused those things and I wanted to be someone 0:04:07.770 --> 0:04:10.690 that people could rely on. So I've always been rewarded 0:04:10.690 --> 0:04:13.090 for that as well, like promotions, you know, being the 0:04:13.130 --> 0:04:16.210 go to, always delivering, always pushing to do better and 0:04:16.250 --> 0:04:19.729 being known for it, and when something's working, you've really 0:04:20.050 --> 0:04:23.610 double down on it. So that kind of reinforcement became 0:04:23.810 --> 0:04:25.770 quite powerful for me. You know, the stories that you 0:04:25.770 --> 0:04:29.690 start to tell yourself if I work hard, then I'm rewarded, 0:04:30.330 --> 0:04:32.850 and it's really like what is your definition of working hard? 0:04:33.090 --> 0:04:36.490 Right? That behavior became part of how I. 0:04:36.450 --> 0:04:39.370 Operated all the time throughout my career, and you know 0:04:39.730 --> 0:04:42.010 as well as I do, that that is not sustainable. 0:04:42.890 --> 0:04:44.810 So the trap is that the more that you become 0:04:44.850 --> 0:04:46.850 that person, the harder it is to stop. Like people 0:04:46.890 --> 0:04:49.650 expect it, you expect it of yourself, and before you 0:04:49.690 --> 0:04:52.170 know it, working all the time just becomes the norm. 0:04:52.570 --> 0:04:54.330 And it can work for a while, and it did 0:04:54.410 --> 0:04:56.890 work for me for quite a while, but there's always 0:04:56.930 --> 0:04:57.970 a point where you hit a limit. 0:04:58.290 --> 0:04:58.930 Something shifts. 0:04:58.930 --> 0:05:01.290 Maybe it's your energy, maybe it's your priority, it's something 0:05:01.290 --> 0:05:02.409 in your personal life change. 0:05:02.570 --> 0:05:02.690 Now. 0:05:03.410 --> 0:05:05.250 Yes, generally you. 0:05:05.290 --> 0:05:08.410 Can and workaholic yourself into burnout right, whatever it is. 0:05:09.050 --> 0:05:10.930 You realize then that this way of working is not 0:05:11.290 --> 0:05:13.490 working for me and it's not going to get me 0:05:13.530 --> 0:05:14.570 to where I want to go next. 0:05:14.810 --> 0:05:17.410 Yeah, do you relate with like being this workaholic? 0:05:17.770 --> 0:05:20.409 I think in the beginning of my career, I definitely 0:05:20.610 --> 0:05:24.250 was a workaholic, especially when I first started this job 0:05:24.370 --> 0:05:26.930 here at Muma Mea, because I started here when I 0:05:26.970 --> 0:05:28.690 was quite young. I've talked about this many times. I 0:05:28.690 --> 0:05:30.450 think I was like twenty one turning twenty two or 0:05:30.450 --> 0:05:32.610 something like that, and now I'm twenty nine and I 0:05:32.610 --> 0:05:35.450 remember when I started, the only person I knew who 0:05:35.530 --> 0:05:38.089 had like the big career that I wanted to achieve 0:05:38.210 --> 0:05:40.410 was my mom. Like she was just like big boss 0:05:40.530 --> 0:05:43.050 energy and she was a workaholic, and I was like, 0:05:43.090 --> 0:05:45.090 that's what I have to do. And I remember I 0:05:45.130 --> 0:05:47.210 was doing like I started here and everyone was like 0:05:47.290 --> 0:05:49.170 go home, go, Like it was crazy. I was so 0:05:49.290 --> 0:05:51.409 young and I would be here to like eight pm, 0:05:51.490 --> 0:05:54.010 doing like a meaningless task that I didn't really need 0:05:54.090 --> 0:05:55.490 to do, and I just wanted to do it and 0:05:55.530 --> 0:05:57.130 show that I could do it. And I feel like 0:05:57.170 --> 0:05:59.650 it's generational, right, Like I feel like a certain generation 0:05:59.770 --> 0:06:02.530 awarded that kind of work. And that's kind of shifting 0:06:02.570 --> 0:06:06.610 now now that like millennials and older gen zs becoming managers, 0:06:07.210 --> 0:06:10.089 it's more respectful to not have to rely on people 0:06:10.130 --> 0:06:13.450 to show that they're literally dying for the job. Yes, 0:06:13.650 --> 0:06:15.850 And I used to be so annoyed because I would 0:06:15.890 --> 0:06:19.050 see young girls come into work working hard, but not 0:06:19.170 --> 0:06:21.890 going above and beyond and pushing themselves as much as 0:06:21.890 --> 0:06:23.890 I did when I first this job, and I was like, 0:06:23.930 --> 0:06:26.890 why are they also achieving the same things I achieved? 0:06:27.130 --> 0:06:29.609 And then I realized it's not because they're not working hard, 0:06:29.690 --> 0:06:31.210 it's because I'm a workaholic. 0:06:31.490 --> 0:06:34.170 Yes, I think that's really interesting. The point you rise 0:06:34.170 --> 0:06:37.130 around the people around you. So when I was a workaholic, 0:06:37.970 --> 0:06:39.610 one of my fasors of being a workaholic, I was 0:06:39.610 --> 0:06:41.890 also a team leader, and there are a group of 0:06:41.930 --> 0:06:44.250 people around me. We were a really high performing team, 0:06:44.730 --> 0:06:48.170 and I often wondered to myself, like did I recruit 0:06:48.210 --> 0:06:52.089 workaholics or did I teach them to become workaholics. 0:06:52.170 --> 0:06:54.410 That's actually such a good point because I do think, yeah, 0:06:54.450 --> 0:06:58.010 exactly what you said. It's STI your environment and even 0:06:58.090 --> 0:07:00.690 like I guess the people you keep in your lifestyle 0:07:00.850 --> 0:07:02.810 as well, because I feel like the one point in 0:07:02.850 --> 0:07:04.810 your life where you can switch off and not be 0:07:04.930 --> 0:07:08.010 workaholic is when you're not at work. But then all 0:07:08.130 --> 0:07:10.650 my friends and my closest friends are also in the 0:07:10.690 --> 0:07:12.930 same line and work at me. Like they're all journalists, 0:07:13.250 --> 0:07:16.050 all workaholic. So even when we're like out of drinks, 0:07:16.090 --> 0:07:17.850 out a dinner, it's like, what are you doing at work? 0:07:17.890 --> 0:07:20.010 What's going on the work? Everyone knows everyone. It's just 0:07:20.050 --> 0:07:23.290 one of those things where it can filter into your 0:07:23.330 --> 0:07:25.050 life without you even realizing it. 0:07:25.250 --> 0:07:28.050 Yes, exactly, and what you were saying earlier about your mum, right, 0:07:28.090 --> 0:07:30.170 and that was your image. I think it becomes the 0:07:30.210 --> 0:07:32.890 stories that we tell ourselves as well. One of my 0:07:32.930 --> 0:07:35.290 stories that I was telling myself was that you know, 0:07:35.330 --> 0:07:37.850 people can rely on me. Therefore I don't want to 0:07:37.930 --> 0:07:41.010 let people down, and so I'll keep working to make 0:07:41.050 --> 0:07:44.210 sure that I'm not letting anyone else down. I mentioned 0:07:44.250 --> 0:07:46.450 to you earlier there was this tipping point for me 0:07:46.530 --> 0:07:48.250 last year in this I think I've always been a 0:07:48.290 --> 0:07:50.010 bit of a work colic, like we always have really 0:07:50.010 --> 0:07:53.770 good work ethic, and it's varied into stages of being 0:07:54.050 --> 0:07:57.130 good work ethic into workaholic and back again. 0:07:57.610 --> 0:07:58.770 But last year was. 0:07:58.810 --> 0:08:01.570 Huge for me because I worked myself basically into burnout 0:08:01.730 --> 0:08:05.730 twice twice, Yes, twice in one year. It's quite a lot, right, So, 0:08:05.850 --> 0:08:09.250 as I was coming through the second point of realizing 0:08:09.290 --> 0:08:12.210 that I'd hit burnout, I was like, something has got 0:08:12.210 --> 0:08:12.810 to change. 0:08:12.890 --> 0:08:14.690 How did you realize that you hit burnout? 0:08:14.810 --> 0:08:16.170 There's a couple of signs, and I think you have 0:08:16.210 --> 0:08:17.650 a podcast and we'll link to it in the show 0:08:17.690 --> 0:08:20.450 notes around the actual signs of burnout. But there's this 0:08:20.530 --> 0:08:25.610 feeling of like absolute physical and mental exhaustion. Yeah, and 0:08:25.610 --> 0:08:26.970 to the point where you just like stare at the 0:08:26.970 --> 0:08:29.090 screen and not like get anything done. You're like, oh, 0:08:29.130 --> 0:08:30.450 I just don't even know where to start, so you 0:08:30.490 --> 0:08:33.730 almost like crippled by it. Yeah, the exhaustion was a big, 0:08:33.809 --> 0:08:35.890 big sign for me because I hadn't really felt that way. 0:08:35.929 --> 0:08:38.090 It's like almost for me, it was like having the 0:08:38.130 --> 0:08:43.090 flu that feeling. Yeah, physically seeing yeah, exactly, And so 0:08:43.130 --> 0:08:45.890 the physical part of them, like right, at some point 0:08:45.890 --> 0:08:47.610 you have to listen to your body and realize that 0:08:47.650 --> 0:08:49.850 it's trying to tell you something. And so for me 0:08:49.970 --> 0:08:52.010 last year, that was the point where I'm like, Okay, 0:08:52.050 --> 0:08:54.090 I need to find out more about this and I 0:08:54.170 --> 0:08:55.689 need to figure out a better way of. 0:08:55.650 --> 0:08:56.570 Working going forward. 0:08:56.890 --> 0:08:59.410 So that's when I started paying attention to the signs, 0:08:59.410 --> 0:09:02.250 and honestly, they weren't really dramatic. Like I mentioned one 0:09:02.250 --> 0:09:05.010 before was like just feeling really physically tired. But it 0:09:05.010 --> 0:09:07.570 can also be small stuff that leads into this, like 0:09:07.970 --> 0:09:10.970 identifying that you're in workholic mode. So one you said 0:09:11.010 --> 0:09:13.170 before like must be on twenty four to seven. Yeah, 0:09:13.250 --> 0:09:15.610 another one was mine. I was very guilty of this, 0:09:16.330 --> 0:09:18.569 thinking about how you can free out more time to work. 0:09:19.250 --> 0:09:22.610 So, oh my god, I've done this. Ye. It's embarrassing. 0:09:22.730 --> 0:09:24.170 Yeah, And do you know what when you clock in 0:09:24.170 --> 0:09:26.530 your head you're like, ooh, I don't think that's quite right. 0:09:26.690 --> 0:09:30.370 Like I was calculating mentally, like if that happened, then 0:09:30.450 --> 0:09:32.210 I could actually squeeze in an hour here. 0:09:33.290 --> 0:09:33.970 Yeah, you've done that. 0:09:34.330 --> 0:09:38.290 I've done that. My big tell is when I wake 0:09:38.370 --> 0:09:40.730 up and the first thing I do is check my 0:09:40.770 --> 0:09:43.490 cycle or check my emails yep, because it usually is 0:09:43.570 --> 0:09:47.890 check Instagram, which is it as unhealthy? Yes, but it's 0:09:47.890 --> 0:09:51.209 a social app versus a work app. Exactly when when 0:09:51.250 --> 0:09:53.210 I wake up and I'm like, what happened on CYC 0:09:53.250 --> 0:09:55.370 when I was sleep? Like, nothing's happened. Everyone else was 0:09:55.370 --> 0:09:57.530 asleep as well. But it's just one of those things 0:09:57.570 --> 0:09:59.290 where I'm like, oh, I'm dipping in again. 0:09:59.530 --> 0:10:01.730 Yes, as one hundred percent of sign One of my 0:10:01.810 --> 0:10:04.410 signs as well was that thinking TV was a waste 0:10:04.410 --> 0:10:07.569 of time, wouldn't you be doing something productive with your time? 0:10:08.410 --> 0:10:11.290 Relaxing is a waste of time? Is something I actually 0:10:11.810 --> 0:10:12.569 set out loud. 0:10:12.770 --> 0:10:16.809 My god, my mom would love here, which. 0:10:16.610 --> 0:10:17.370 It's not right. 0:10:17.410 --> 0:10:19.929 And I've gone through this whole process of understanding that 0:10:20.650 --> 0:10:22.850 we are more like athletes than we realize at work, 0:10:23.050 --> 0:10:26.130 like we need athletes. Don't go around going I must 0:10:26.170 --> 0:10:29.570 play game day every single day. There's like rest and 0:10:29.570 --> 0:10:32.650 recovery and training and things like that built into it. 0:10:33.290 --> 0:10:35.690 That was a really good analogy for me to like go, Okay, 0:10:35.850 --> 0:10:46.850 something has to shift here. Yeah. I also think like 0:10:46.890 --> 0:10:49.690 it's worth touching on him that there are points in 0:10:49.690 --> 0:10:52.050 your career where you do want to or have to 0:10:52.250 --> 0:10:54.569 work hard and like you want to dig in, right. 0:10:54.610 --> 0:10:56.810 You know, there are times in my career where I 0:10:56.850 --> 0:10:59.689 was working on certain projects and really good opportunities and 0:10:59.730 --> 0:11:02.010 I'm sure you'd like resonate with this, and I did 0:11:02.050 --> 0:11:03.970 have to dig deep, but it wasn't twenty four to 0:11:03.970 --> 0:11:06.290 seven and it wasn't every day yeah week as well. 0:11:06.450 --> 0:11:08.450 And so that's not all we're talking about here. We're saying, yes, 0:11:08.490 --> 0:11:11.090 work hard at points, but don't make it a habit. 0:11:11.610 --> 0:11:14.130 Yeah. I have a running joke here at Mama Mia 0:11:14.250 --> 0:11:18.410 and I've told founder Maya and my manager Eliza, who's 0:11:18.450 --> 0:11:20.689 head of content, and I've said I probably give about 0:11:20.730 --> 0:11:24.570 eighty percent on myself at work, and they were like, what, like, 0:11:24.570 --> 0:11:26.850 should you be telling me this yes, and I was like, 0:11:26.850 --> 0:11:29.970 I actually think it's quite true because one hundred percent 0:11:30.010 --> 0:11:33.530 for me, like the way I work is workaholic level. Yeah, 0:11:33.530 --> 0:11:35.250 Like if you want me at one hundred percent, just 0:11:35.290 --> 0:11:37.210 know I'm going to be burnt out in two months, 0:11:37.490 --> 0:11:40.610 Whereas like eighty percent is my sweet spot. Like I 0:11:40.690 --> 0:11:43.490 know when to clock off, I know when to relax, 0:11:43.530 --> 0:11:45.170 I know when to take my break. I know if 0:11:45.210 --> 0:11:47.090 I need to start a bit later, if I finish 0:11:47.130 --> 0:11:49.410 a bit earlier. Because I'm confident that I am a 0:11:49.410 --> 0:11:52.330 good worker and I'm confident that I work hard and 0:11:52.370 --> 0:11:54.130 I have to do these little things. And in my 0:11:54.250 --> 0:11:57.850 head when I say eighty percent, it helps me bring 0:11:57.850 --> 0:12:00.650 it back. Yes, And I don't mean like if you 0:12:01.250 --> 0:12:02.930 aren't working hard, don't do that. 0:12:03.330 --> 0:12:05.449 Yes, please work a little bit hard. 0:12:05.530 --> 0:12:07.570 Aplays work a little bit hard, like you need to 0:12:07.810 --> 0:12:11.290 know exactly where your libbit is. And because I'm a 0:12:11.370 --> 0:12:13.449 numbers girl, so when I put a number to that, 0:12:13.930 --> 0:12:16.410 I'm like, Okay, if I feel myself going to ninety 0:12:16.450 --> 0:12:17.970 and be like, you can do ninety for a little bit, 0:12:18.290 --> 0:12:20.450 but just know if you keep going, it's gonna like 0:12:20.650 --> 0:12:21.290 fizzle out. 0:12:21.490 --> 0:12:23.210 Yes, you obviously had to learn that though, because you 0:12:23.210 --> 0:12:25.170 were telling me before that you went through a period 0:12:25.210 --> 0:12:28.330 of being like full work zone. Was there a moment 0:12:28.370 --> 0:12:30.170 where you realize that you could take that shift. 0:12:30.290 --> 0:12:32.050 I think it was a moment when I realized that 0:12:32.130 --> 0:12:36.010 people who aren't workaholics were achieving the exact same things 0:12:36.010 --> 0:12:40.530 I were. So I think my workaholicism came from what 0:12:40.730 --> 0:12:42.810 I was getting out of my job. Yeah, And when 0:12:42.850 --> 0:12:44.730 I realized I could still get the same things out 0:12:44.770 --> 0:12:47.450 of my job by like relaxing a little bit, I 0:12:47.490 --> 0:12:49.890 was like, oh, this is great. I don't need to 0:12:49.930 --> 0:12:52.770 do that. Like, I think I go into waves as well. Yes, 0:12:52.810 --> 0:12:54.930 exactly what you said, Like, there will be times in 0:12:54.970 --> 0:12:56.810 my career, which is right now, because I've got like 0:12:56.850 --> 0:13:00.050 a new job and I want to be the best 0:13:00.050 --> 0:13:01.770 of the best at it. So there will be times 0:13:01.810 --> 0:13:05.410 like now where I will probably tap into that workaholicism. 0:13:05.690 --> 0:13:06.650 Yeah, but there will. 0:13:06.490 --> 0:13:07.890 Be times where I know I have to pull it 0:13:07.930 --> 0:13:09.610 back because I don't want to burn out. So I 0:13:09.650 --> 0:13:11.770 do think you will go through waves in your career 0:13:11.810 --> 0:13:14.650 where you will have to work a bit harder. Then 0:13:14.890 --> 0:13:17.530 sometimes you can just like take a back seat, still 0:13:17.570 --> 0:13:19.770 work up, take a bit of a backseat and just 0:13:19.770 --> 0:13:21.770 be aware of that. Like, I think, once you're actually 0:13:21.810 --> 0:13:24.170 aware of your pattern, then it makes it so much 0:13:24.210 --> 0:13:25.010 easier to control. 0:13:25.090 --> 0:13:27.050 I love that you've already told your managers about this 0:13:27.050 --> 0:13:28.650 as well, so they're not going like I. 0:13:28.610 --> 0:13:30.130 Told them as a joke. And then I was like, actually, 0:13:30.170 --> 0:13:31.330 I think I'm quite serious about that. 0:13:31.450 --> 0:13:33.770 Yes, absolutely, because then they're not going like, what is 0:13:33.810 --> 0:13:35.930 this whiplash? Like one day em is like working on 0:13:35.930 --> 0:13:37.650 this level, and now she's working on this level. They're 0:13:37.690 --> 0:13:40.650 aware that you're managing your own energy, which is awesome. 0:13:41.050 --> 0:13:43.010 One of the things I've grappled with is up until recently, 0:13:43.050 --> 0:13:45.570 there hasn't really been a way to differentiate. 0:13:45.010 --> 0:13:48.130 A hard worker from a workaholic. Yes, but we found something. 0:13:48.610 --> 0:13:51.330 Yes we did. When you showed me this, I was like, 0:13:51.650 --> 0:13:55.410 I am going to show everyone this. So the Department 0:13:55.570 --> 0:13:59.850 of Psychosocial Science at the University of Bergen in Norway 0:14:00.450 --> 0:14:04.650 developed a work addiction scale based on specific symptoms that 0:14:04.810 --> 0:14:08.530 characterize a workaholic, and they came up with seven signs 0:14:08.650 --> 0:14:11.970 and they said that if you answer often or always 0:14:12.010 --> 0:14:15.330 to any of these signs, you may have workaholic tendencies 0:14:15.570 --> 0:14:18.530 and brace yourselves because they are quite like simple things 0:14:18.570 --> 0:14:20.850 that I didn't even realize were signs of a workaholic. 0:14:21.290 --> 0:14:24.010 So number one, you think of how you can free 0:14:24.090 --> 0:14:26.410 up more time to work, which is exactly what we did. 0:14:26.490 --> 0:14:26.810 Yes. 0:14:27.170 --> 0:14:32.050 Number two, you spend much more time working than initially intended. 0:14:31.610 --> 0:14:33.730 Which I find this one so hard because I really 0:14:33.850 --> 0:14:36.130 enjoy what I do, and so sometimes I need to 0:14:36.170 --> 0:14:37.650 go Okay, enough. 0:14:37.490 --> 0:14:41.290 Now, enough, now please do Number three you work in 0:14:41.410 --> 0:14:45.850 order to reduce feelings of guilt, anxiety, helplessness, and slash 0:14:45.970 --> 0:14:46.570 or depression. 0:14:47.290 --> 0:14:49.490 Well, I just told you about the guilt factor. Let 0:14:49.490 --> 0:14:50.290 anyone down. 0:14:50.450 --> 0:14:52.610 Yes, And I think this also comes in with the 0:14:52.650 --> 0:14:56.610 generational thing, like what certain generations expect. Like I have 0:14:56.690 --> 0:15:01.210 a friend whose boss is always like so they manage 0:15:01.210 --> 0:15:03.850 a team, and then their boss overseas like three teams, okay, 0:15:04.170 --> 0:15:06.410 And with my friend's team, a lot of them work 0:15:06.450 --> 0:15:09.970 from home. Her boss comes in and she's like everyone's 0:15:10.010 --> 0:15:12.130 working from home again, what the hell? And she's like, 0:15:12.490 --> 0:15:14.690 I'm the most successful team. Like you've seen the numbers, 0:15:14.690 --> 0:15:17.250 You've seen how hard we work. And then he realized 0:15:17.250 --> 0:15:19.130 he was like, oh my god, yeah, I don't have 0:15:19.130 --> 0:15:21.770 to see them to know that they're working. Yes, correct, 0:15:22.330 --> 0:15:27.050 that's a really good example. I hope he's listening. Number four, 0:15:27.210 --> 0:15:29.530 you have been told by others to cut down on 0:15:29.610 --> 0:15:33.650 work without listening to them. Oh, that's a bit of 0:15:33.690 --> 0:15:34.450 a red fight to me. 0:15:34.730 --> 0:15:36.490 Last year, I flew to Sydney for the Tailor Swift 0:15:36.530 --> 0:15:39.130 concert and I took my work laptop with me, not 0:15:39.170 --> 0:15:40.930 to the concert on the plane. 0:15:41.010 --> 0:15:43.450 On the plane and my girlfriend's like, do you need 0:15:43.490 --> 0:15:44.090 to do that right now? 0:15:44.090 --> 0:15:46.570 I'm like, I'm just gonna quickly catch up because you know, 0:15:46.730 --> 0:15:48.050 like idle time, and. 0:15:47.930 --> 0:15:49.570 What did you get done during that time? 0:15:49.850 --> 0:15:52.610 Edited some content? It was good, But did it really 0:15:52.650 --> 0:15:53.490 need to have that? 0:15:55.370 --> 0:15:57.090 She'd have been editing as you had the Tailor Swift 0:15:57.130 --> 0:15:57.570 cons out. 0:15:57.610 --> 0:16:01.090 Yeah, exactly, exactly. I still really enjoyed the concert though, Okay, 0:16:01.090 --> 0:16:01.690 good good, good guy. 0:16:01.690 --> 0:16:03.850 I didn't get tickets, so I'm pretty stressed out about that. 0:16:04.450 --> 0:16:04.730 Five. 0:16:04.890 --> 0:16:08.170 Speaking about stress, you become stressed if you are prohibited 0:16:08.250 --> 0:16:11.530 from working. This one rings so true to me, does it. 0:16:11.730 --> 0:16:12.330 Yeah. 0:16:12.490 --> 0:16:15.370 If I go on a holiday, I make it a 0:16:15.410 --> 0:16:19.530 point to delete my cyc An email and I give 0:16:19.530 --> 0:16:21.970 my numbers to the people who need my number in 0:16:21.930 --> 0:16:25.770 a case that's an emergency. I'm a journalist. I'm a podcaster. 0:16:26.170 --> 0:16:30.130 What kind of emergency I know I think they need 0:16:30.490 --> 0:16:30.810 from me. 0:16:31.050 --> 0:16:32.770 This is what someone said to me last year when 0:16:32.770 --> 0:16:34.810 I was saying, I get up and I check my 0:16:34.850 --> 0:16:38.090 emails and it's five am, and they're like, you don't 0:16:38.130 --> 0:16:40.250 have a global team, Like are you the CEO of 0:16:40.290 --> 0:16:42.450 a fourteen five thousand business or whatever? 0:16:42.490 --> 0:16:44.730 It is so like, no. 0:16:44.690 --> 0:16:47.490 If you're a surgeon, different story. Yeah, but not all 0:16:47.530 --> 0:16:52.570 of us are saving lives. No, okay, number six, you 0:16:52.650 --> 0:16:57.610 deprioritize hobbies, leisure activities, and or exercise because of your work. 0:16:57.770 --> 0:16:59.090 Oh i' mean this right now? 0:16:59.090 --> 0:17:00.370 Actually are you? Yeah? 0:17:00.370 --> 0:17:02.690 And I'm paying every week. I haven't gone to a 0:17:02.690 --> 0:17:03.810 polarates class in a month. 0:17:04.090 --> 0:17:06.649 Oh see, I've come out of the other side because 0:17:06.930 --> 0:17:09.129 last year I would work really hard and then I 0:17:09.169 --> 0:17:11.570 would thrash myself really hard at like some like body 0:17:11.570 --> 0:17:14.770 fit kind of situation. So either yeah, yeah, even this 0:17:14.850 --> 0:17:19.370 year on like full pilates zen must must be part 0:17:19.410 --> 0:17:21.810 of my day kind of situation to. 0:17:21.690 --> 0:17:25.770 Bring it back. Yeah, it's hard though, especially the hobby stuff. Yeah, 0:17:25.810 --> 0:17:28.129 Like it's kind of like literally what you said, like, 0:17:28.170 --> 0:17:29.810 why would you waste your time watching TV? 0:17:30.090 --> 0:17:30.770 Yeah? 0:17:30.810 --> 0:17:32.570 But like why would we waste the time doing stuff 0:17:32.609 --> 0:17:33.649 that's not work. 0:17:33.650 --> 0:17:36.530 Because it fills our cup and we're not here just 0:17:36.570 --> 0:17:37.010 to work. 0:17:37.250 --> 0:17:40.889 Yeah yeah, okay. Number seven, you work so much that 0:17:40.930 --> 0:17:44.850 it has negatively influenced your health. This is a big one. 0:17:45.010 --> 0:17:47.209