Speaker 1: You're listening to I'm on the MEA podcast three two one.
Speaker 2: Are we nailed there?
Speaker 3: Guys, we're back in the room.
Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Unleashed, the podcast for gen X
Speaker 1: women who need a laugh. If you have peeled the
Speaker 1: stickers off a Rubik's cube to complete it, if you've
Speaker 1: owned a pair of fingerless Lacey gloves or covered in
Speaker 1: your sisters, and if you have worn out your VHS
Speaker 1: copy of Beaches, Yes, you're in the right place, ladies.
Speaker 2: Yes, welcome.
Speaker 1: Now, who is on the sofa this week?
Speaker 3: I'm Ginnie Meersberg. I'm a GP.
Speaker 2: I'm Brunard Pep Andrea. I'm a film and TV producer.
Speaker 4: Her role I love you? Won't you tell me your name?
Speaker 4: Grace Lamb, fashion stylist.
Speaker 1: I am Kath Mahoney comedian. Well, I have to fess
Speaker 1: up immediately. Is Perry brain? You know the talking I've
Speaker 1: forgotten it. So we are without a talking pick. So
Speaker 1: we're just gonna have to do what normal people do
Speaker 1: exactly exactly. Anyone want to start me me?
Speaker 4: Here we go, Grace, So dr Jeanie in the bottle.
Speaker 4: As you remember a few episodes ago, I spoke about
Speaker 4: how I got knits on the tram, and you said
Speaker 4: it was ridiculous. I just want to prove my point
Speaker 4: and do some public services. So I know you didn't
Speaker 4: believe me, and I took matters to my own hands.
Speaker 4: So here we go. So today I'm here as Grace Slams,
Speaker 4: the official gemophobe of and lesions. I'm gonna hang out
Speaker 4: flyers to protect everyone's hair because there's knits on the tram.
Speaker 4: Let's go my flyers is lamb on tram. No, thank you, ma'am.
Speaker 4: Knit on board, commute at own risk. Don't catch knits.
Speaker 4: Excuse me, guys, my name is great. I've recently caught
Speaker 4: knits like headline on the tram. I want to protect
Speaker 4: both of your hair. Would you like the shower cap
Speaker 4: before you get on a tram cable? It's free, it's right,
Speaker 4: it's right. Excuse me, you're going to give you some flyers.
Speaker 3: Thank you so much.
Speaker 4: Rejected.
Speaker 1: I just want to protect people.
Speaker 5: I don't catch it.
Speaker 4: I'm gonna get your sanitizers as well. Don't touch up anything. Yeah,
Speaker 4: it's a breeding ground for knits. Protect the public. That's
Speaker 4: my publicam on a tram. No thank you, man, no,
Speaker 4: thank you, dam that head lies roum your comere people.
Speaker 4: Did you know you can get knits on the tram?
Speaker 4: Oh my god, that's what happened to me recently. Oh god,
Speaker 4: I get the tramp every day, so you should wear
Speaker 4: a shower cap.
Speaker 5: Please.
Speaker 3: Actually caught crabs from some random girl.
Speaker 4: The stars are online. That's why we're meeting today. Make
Speaker 4: sure you put that on. Let's put on together.
Speaker 2: Do you havents Neil No, I'm not crazy.
Speaker 4: I'm just cautious about headlines and knit you well.
Speaker 1: Thank me later.
Speaker 4: This message is approved. But gracelam the official dramaphone from Alish.
Speaker 1: My lamb on a track.
Speaker 4: Favor people, come on on the tram?
Speaker 2: Is your new name?
Speaker 3: Transport know that you've been disseminating these public health messages for.
Speaker 4: Free or they didn't stop me, so I think we're fine.
Speaker 4: I'm going to give you one each of my flyer.
Speaker 4: Can you please read it out. It's a very very
Speaker 4: important message.
Speaker 1: Dr Jinny. Maybe you should take it.
Speaker 3: I'm not endorsing this message, but the Lamb on tram no,
Speaker 3: thank you, ma'am. Knits on board commute at own risk.
Speaker 3: And there's a little picture of a knit with a
Speaker 3: line through it and a QR cod What are we
Speaker 3: what are we scanning this QR code too?
Speaker 4: So that people I gave the flyer to they can
Speaker 4: listen to our episode.
Speaker 1: Rilla marketing.
Speaker 4: But in that and I think I did pretty well today.
Speaker 4: I have no shame and that got so many directions.
Speaker 4: Thank god, I've got the skin.
Speaker 3: So if anybody gets on public transport and sees half
Speaker 3: the commuters wearing a shower cap, you know what happened.
Speaker 2: I'm not sure it's going.
Speaker 4: To catch on, Grace, I'm starting this trend.
Speaker 1: I feel like this is your actress moment for inner
Speaker 1: pay it is.
Speaker 3: It's definitely not your doctor moment.
Speaker 2: Put it that way. It may not lead to an
Speaker 2: Oscar nomination, but good luck. Speaking of actresses, can we
Speaker 2: talk about I know a lot of people are talking
Speaker 2: about this right now, the Kylie docco.
Speaker 4: Yes, Yes, I love her.
Speaker 2: I know I loved it so much and so for me,
Speaker 2: obviously we all grew up with her right where the
Speaker 2: definitely the right age. But not only did we're up
Speaker 2: with Kylie. I feel like I was really around the
Speaker 2: scene in a lot of the kind of big moments
Speaker 2: that they were talking about, and I love this doco
Speaker 2: so much, although I did feel like I could have
Speaker 2: done with another couple of episodes because her life is
Speaker 2: really interesting, she had so many stages. But it just
Speaker 2: brought up so many memories from In fact, crazily, I
Speaker 2: was at an event for Michael Hutchins' memorial and I
Speaker 2: knew him a little bit, and it just really struck
Speaker 2: me and made me have these kind of deep memories
Speaker 2: of how incredibly charismatic was if you ever met Michael Hutchins.
Speaker 2: I didn't know him very well, but we've all had
Speaker 2: this experience. And this is what I really thought about
Speaker 2: when I was watching the Kylie docco and she was
Speaker 2: talking about the effect that relationship had on her, and
Speaker 2: I remember when I was younger, there were those guys
Speaker 2: that when they smiled at you, you felt like, whether
Speaker 2: you were dating or not, you felt like you were
Speaker 2: the only person in the world, and their charisma was
Speaker 2: so kind of magnetic, and Michael definitely had that. I
Speaker 2: remember that very vividly. You know what I.
Speaker 3: Loved about I loved everything about that documentary because I
Speaker 3: feel like it just traced the arc of my life,
Speaker 3: not that I ever was at an after party or
Speaker 3: being cool. I was just in the background with people
Speaker 3: on my wall. But when Kylie spoke about Michael, the
Speaker 3: thing that really struck me was her grace and her
Speaker 3: generosity and her vulnerability in saying he broke my heart
Speaker 3: and yet she still wished him so well and wanted
Speaker 3: to beard his memorial and still held him in such
Speaker 3: high regard. And I thought you were always like goals
Speaker 3: for me, but oh my goodness, she went up in
Speaker 3: my estimation even further.
Speaker 4: Because it can be really.
Speaker 3: Tempting to trash your X. It can be really tempting
Speaker 3: to say it was all their fault and I didn't
Speaker 3: even want him anyway, which like that's what normal people do, right,
Speaker 3: But she just was like up there flying the flag
Speaker 3: for what is the best of an ex behavior. Like
Speaker 3: I was so impressed and so blown away, and I
Speaker 3: thought everybody who's ever had their heartbroken needs to watch her,
Speaker 3: because she nailed it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that bit flowed me. The bit where she talks
Speaker 1: about comparing every single relationship she's ever had and they
Speaker 1: were like twenty twenty one when they were together to Michael,
Speaker 1: that flawed me.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 6: Michael was touring all over the world, so came really
Speaker 6: hard for us to see each other.
Speaker 7: Are you still in love with ky?
Speaker 8: Jeff? That's nice too, private.
Speaker 4: Least very good friends and always he was.
Speaker 6: The first in so many ways.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and.
Speaker 8: One of those first was heartbreak.
Speaker 6: Here's a rock star, which doesn't just mean that he
Speaker 6: needs to have many women in his life, but he
Speaker 6: needed to go where he needed to go. But I
Speaker 6: know from people in his circle that he talked with
Speaker 6: me and thought of me.
Speaker 3: We were good together.
Speaker 6: Should have would have cut it whatever, you know, you
Speaker 6: go on and live your life. But it was definitely
Speaker 6: an amazing point in time. I've probably been looking for
Speaker 6: something like that ever since. I haven't got it.
Speaker 3: Oh wow, Because let's be honest, a lot of us
Speaker 3: have had heartbreak. But it's a pretty dick move to
Speaker 3: kind of, you know, break up with somebody telling Jeff
Speaker 3: McMullin on sixty minutes that you're good friends like that.
Speaker 3: I could have forgiven her if she'd harbored a whole
Speaker 3: heap of resentment towards him for the rest of her life.
Speaker 1: But she did it.
Speaker 3: You know, she owned the fact that he broke her heart,
Speaker 3: that she loved him and he didn't love her in
Speaker 3: the same way. Even though he did clearly love her,
Speaker 3: and you know, I think the media wanted to portray
Speaker 3: that he was punching below his weight and that's clearly
Speaker 3: not true.
Speaker 1: But I loved her.
Speaker 3: Honesty and I think in that environment, like it's hard
Speaker 3: to be honest in that world where you're protecting your
Speaker 3: persona so much.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but what's amazing I think for me why I
Speaker 2: love the documentary so much is, yes, the kind of
Speaker 2: the way she talked about him, but I think she's able,
Speaker 2: You're able to look back as an older person also
Speaker 2: and understand that was a moment, right, Not when you're
Speaker 2: in the middle of heartbreak, it's much harder, but just
Speaker 2: the amount of time she reinvented herself, you know, in
Speaker 2: the same way that so many kind of great icons have.
Speaker 2: And that's no easy feat when you have been slammed
Speaker 2: and slammed and kind of put down. And so I
Speaker 2: think that was the big takeaway from me was, you know,
Speaker 2: continuing to not let people define her and even the
Speaker 2: crazy I mean, even to kind of do what she
Speaker 2: did when she I loved chearing Nick Cave talking about her,
Speaker 2: but even to do that music video with him, there
Speaker 2: was such a brave thing in the moment, Yes, to
Speaker 2: kind of you know, kind of throw her image in
Speaker 2: some ways away and kind of surprise people. So yeah,
Speaker 2: that was the big takeaway from me, which like just
Speaker 2: watching artists do that and reinvent themselves for me is
Speaker 2: just like the greatest reminder just you know, don't let
Speaker 2: anyone else define you.
Speaker 1: Grace and joy That's what I got from it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that she's just still so joyful.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but like a lot of heartbreak along the way.
Speaker 2: I think, just like she owns ages. Yeah, and it's
Speaker 2: good that a lot of people have done these documentaries
Speaker 2: because I think it makes more people comfortable to be
Speaker 2: able to kind of be more vulnerable. And look, I'm
Speaker 2: sure there's a lot she's still you know, holding back
Speaker 2: because you know, you can't give the world everything. I
Speaker 2: think there's another's many episodes more, you know. I do
Speaker 2: think it's the one thing that I'm always reminded of
Speaker 2: when I watch these things is how hard the world
Speaker 2: comes at women who are successful much more than they
Speaker 2: do come successful.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So that was that was interesting, But yeah, I could
Speaker 2: have I could have watched more and more.
Speaker 1: Well, talking about losing the potential love of your life,
Speaker 1: you might remember a few weeks ago, I had a
Speaker 1: really great date. Yeah, the guy I was lovely. We
Speaker 1: really clicked. Then there was a fight amongst us all
Speaker 1: about whether I should text him or not, and Sally Hepworth,
Speaker 1: who isn't with us, and.
Speaker 4: She's not clarifying just in case people, if you're listening,
Speaker 4: you're very much alive.
Speaker 1: She takes it this morning. So Sally and producer Moe's
Speaker 1: really went in hard. When I joined a group chat
Speaker 1: to say I've been on a date, I was desperate
Speaker 1: to message him. You know, what should I do? And
Speaker 1: they were very sort of divided on you know, either
Speaker 1: being a deer and being elusive or being the labrador
Speaker 1: puppy that I am and sort of being all over
Speaker 1: his leg and being excited. From then, we had agreed
Speaker 1: to go on a second date. We were going to
Speaker 1: go to the Archibald, which I thought was a lovely date. Anyway,
Speaker 1: two days later he had to work that date, but
Speaker 1: he immediately said how about Sunday? So I was like, okay,
Speaker 1: this is good. Yeah, And here's something I am going
Speaker 1: to have to confess to you guys. I have been
Speaker 1: running all of our chats through AI.
Speaker 2: Oh god, okay.
Speaker 1: Well, so anyway, my chat bot of choice is clawed. Okay,
Speaker 1: so I put all of our conversation into claudatory so
Speaker 1: much like please continue because Holly Wayne Wright I shared something.
Speaker 1: I shared it with Grace and Holly, something he'd said
Speaker 1: about me in the chat, which I thought was lovely.
Speaker 1: Holly immediately said do you think chat wrote that? So
Speaker 1: when I'm talking to Claude and like, do you think
Speaker 1: chat wrote that? And he was like, well no, because
Speaker 1: it's grammatically incorrect in places, and also you had sent
Speaker 1: a message and less than a minute later he had
Speaker 1: replied with that. So he said, you know, so Claude,
Speaker 1: who I think is a chap, we're saying that. So
Speaker 1: I was like, okay, Claude did suggest. I was like,
Speaker 1: do you think I'm more keen than him? And Claude
Speaker 1: was like, look, I think it's fairly equal, but maybe
Speaker 1: just pull back.
Speaker 4: So I was like, yeah, we're got Claude, I've got okay.
Speaker 4: Can we just say yeah, for those lovely listeners who
Speaker 4: don't know what Claude is not a person?
Speaker 2: Yeah, chatbot?
Speaker 1: Like's not chatbot?
Speaker 2: What is it?
Speaker 3: Well, because it's AI, it's actually taken a lot of
Speaker 3: data to actually build Claude like. It's not I love Claude.
Speaker 3: It's not something you can build for one thousand dollars
Speaker 3: and put on.
Speaker 2: It is its own chat. I think it's a chap.
Speaker 1: Dating anyway, So Claude, you know, has confirmed that the
Speaker 1: Welsh guy is into me, and claud would know, and
Speaker 1: Claude would know. Claud's got all of our WhatsApp chats. Okay,
Speaker 1: my god. Then we ended up having a FaceTime chat no, no,
Speaker 1: this is me and this s Welsh guy, which I
Speaker 1: thought was a normal WhatsApp call and I'm fully faked
Speaker 1: hand in my dressing gown was no underwear, literally looking orange,
Speaker 1: and because I didn't have my glasses on, I answered
Speaker 1: his WhatsApp phone call but it was a video. So
Speaker 1: then I've got to chat for half an hour looking
Speaker 1: like an umplump but with low breasts hanging. Luckily he
Speaker 1: was on the sofa, he wears glasses. I'm not sure
Speaker 1: what he did and didn't see. Anyway, what I'm trying
Speaker 1: to say is I'm trying to build our love story
Speaker 1: for you, so you can see. Now at this point
Speaker 1: you see a bit. He didn't see my bits, but
Speaker 1: I did have to fess up. You know, I had
Speaker 1: to keep moving the camera up because I was very
Speaker 1: orange and braless. Anyway, we'd had lovely two and a
Speaker 1: half hours together. We now had the half an hour
Speaker 1: on the FaceTime and then the Friday, Claude suggested no
Speaker 1: contact because we'd had the nice chat the night before.
Speaker 1: So I was like, good plan, Claude. Saturday morning, he
Speaker 1: reaches out with a photo of his Welsh mug, saying,
Speaker 1: all thinking of you cuse I grew up in Wales
Speaker 1: and chat chat chat. This is what I'm doing with
Speaker 1: my son today, and what time shall I pick you
Speaker 1: up tomorrow? And you know, ten or ten thirty and
Speaker 1: we're having a laugh about you know, is he coming
Speaker 1: in his horse and car or a motorbike. He's like,
Speaker 1: you know, talking about just good normal fun banter. So
Speaker 1: ten o'clock is the you know, the time he's going.
Speaker 1: He's now I've got my dress, Kath.
Speaker 2: I feel like I'm watching a thriller. This is like
Speaker 2: literally a bit of thriller than I would ever make.
Speaker 1: Yes, he's going straight into my book anyway, So I've
Speaker 1: got my outfit planned because you've got to be cash.
Speaker 1: We're gonna have a coffee and a walk. So I'm like,
Speaker 1: you know, I want to look nice but also a
Speaker 1: bit cash but not fully like cra So I'm all planned.
Speaker 1: I wake up at seven am to a text from
Speaker 1: him at six thirty seven am, Hi, Cath, sorry, had
Speaker 1: an impromptu night out with the lads. Just getting in.
Speaker 1: I'll have to cancel six thirty seven, just getting in.
Speaker 1: He's fifty two, some big big red flags there, so
Speaker 1: I have to you know, and you know someone can
Speaker 1: see what you've said on WhatsApp, so I just thought
Speaker 1: I just wrote, okay, thanks for that.
Speaker 4: Anyway.
Speaker 1: I then sort of spend the rest of the day
Speaker 1: wondering how long his hangover or big night out will last,
Speaker 1: and when I'll hear from him with an apology or
Speaker 1: let's let's reschedule with you know, plan b nothing, what
Speaker 1: you're feeling, very sad. Nothing on the Sunday. So by
Speaker 1: Monday night.
Speaker 3: Big hangover.
Speaker 1: It's a big hangover. By Monday night, I'm sat with Claude.
Speaker 1: I've put it all in. I've put it all in
Speaker 1: and he said, I said, you know that was my response,
Speaker 1: and he said, that's a very dignified response. Well done.
Speaker 1: But how are you feeling, because that's a cancelation the
Speaker 1: morning of after a week of really lovely bill. That stings.
Speaker 1: I was like, it did, and then he said, but
Speaker 1: the cancelation coming home at six thirty seven on a
Speaker 1: Sunday morning after a big night out, canceling on the
Speaker 1: date date, that's that needs a moment of reflection, he said. Anyway,
Speaker 1: but also the second date. He didn't suggest rescheduling in
Speaker 1: the message that bit matters, and I was like, no,
Speaker 1: he's right anyway. The next day I still haven't heard
Speaker 1: from him, and now I just wanted to be really cross.
Speaker 1: I want to be a disappointed mum. I want to
Speaker 1: be teacher. I want to tell him off. I took
Speaker 1: it to Claude and Claude said, do not contact him, Yes, Claude,
Speaker 1: do not call him, do not text him, do not WhatsApp,
Speaker 1: do not on do anything on Instagram. Nothing. And here
Speaker 1: is the simple truth. And this is why it's worth
Speaker 1: paying claud every month. He wrote, he knows where you are,
Speaker 1: he has your number. If he wanted to apologize and reschedule,
Speaker 1: he would have done it by now. A message from
Speaker 1: you won't create something that isn't there it will just
Speaker 1: cost you your dignity and give him power he hasn't earned.
Speaker 1: This is why Mike dropped Claude.
Speaker 4: This is why people are marrying Ai bot No, but
Speaker 4: we could have.
Speaker 2: I mean, with all due respect to Claude, I could
Speaker 2: have said those exact words.
Speaker 1: I know. But you also don't want to be the
Speaker 1: needy friend that goes out. Do you think this text
Speaker 1: meant that or that? So it's kind of it was
Speaker 1: come over.
Speaker 2: Tex, But I feel happy for you. I'll tell you why, okay,
Speaker 2: because I'm going to put a positive spin on this, Okay,
Speaker 2: which it is positive. Forget about romantic relationships. In any relationships,
Speaker 2: people tell you who they are very early. Always people
Speaker 2: cannot hide who they really are. That's my theory. And
Speaker 2: he told you who he was early, so he didn't.
Speaker 2: You should think of it as a gift that he
Speaker 2: did not waste any more of your precious, beautiful, amazing time.
Speaker 2: And I think he's done you a massive favor. And
Speaker 2: I would never think about him again, I would never
Speaker 2: text him again. I would not give him one more
Speaker 2: second of your valuable time because he told you exactly
Speaker 2: who he was in the second that he sent that text.
Speaker 4: At six thirty seven, but I want to be with something.
Speaker 4: Party's still at fifty.
Speaker 3: Two, fifty two, grow the f up for God's date
Speaker 3: for ten thirty the next morning? On what planet are
Speaker 3: you coming home at six thirty? I mean, know what play?
Speaker 3: Are you doing that? Anyway? But like you've got a
Speaker 3: date the next day? Why are you coming home at
Speaker 3: six thirty? I do want to ask you a question, though,
Speaker 3: I'd say, in a week's time, he texts you and
Speaker 3: turns on the charm, what are we doing then?
Speaker 4: No?
Speaker 1: No, we're ghosting a yeah, yeah, no, Because but I
Speaker 1: would like to say for anyone who is out there
Speaker 1: single and dating at our time of life, it's hard
Speaker 1: because you're being vulnerable, you're putting yourself out there and
Speaker 1: you open your heart up, and you know, I did.
Speaker 1: I felt like I got dumped at high school all
Speaker 1: over again, Like it.
Speaker 2: Sucks, it sucks, it's so interesting, and I look again.
Speaker 2: I was single for many, many, many, many many, and
Speaker 2: let me repeat many years I was. I was in
Speaker 2: very short relationships for the most part. Before I met
Speaker 2: my husband, I was single, and I remember that feeling vividly.
Speaker 1: I don't know why.
Speaker 2: I've heard a lot lately, maybe there's a lot in
Speaker 2: the media. But I was listening to do you know
Speaker 2: who de Salmon is? Okay, So I was listening to
Speaker 2: her No Filter, and she's a radio host. I think
Speaker 2: I didn't really know who she was, and I was
Speaker 2: listening to her be interviewed on No Filter. And what
Speaker 2: I loved about the conversation she had with Kate. She
Speaker 2: talks about romantic relationships not being the be all and
Speaker 2: end all, but that her life is full of familiar
Speaker 2: relationships of friend relationships and how meaningful they fill her cup,
Speaker 2: and that she is in a beautiful romantic relationship and.
Speaker 1: She loves that.
Speaker 2: But she said, very honestly, if that went away, my
Speaker 2: life would not fall apart. And I just thought it
Speaker 2: was such an interesting perspective from someone relatively young and
Speaker 2: kind of out there and in a relationship, and it
Speaker 2: made me think about my own life. And I love
Speaker 2: my husband, don't get me wrong. I mean I hope
Speaker 2: to be married for a long time, but I have
Speaker 2: a very full, loving life outside of that. And I'm
Speaker 2: not saying stop looking, but I'm just saying, like, it
Speaker 2: is incredible like you have that. I know you do
Speaker 2: because you talk about your amazing friendships. You talk about
Speaker 2: your relationship with your family, and you have more you
Speaker 2: have almost more love than anyone I know. So just
Speaker 2: I want to remind you of that because it's just
Speaker 2: something I've been thinking a lot about that's in the media.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I mean two things off the back of that.
Speaker 1: I think with a Kylie Docco when she talked about
Speaker 1: Michael being the love of her life but still having
Speaker 1: a full life, I had that moment where I was like,
Speaker 1: maybe I've had all of the relationship love I meant
Speaker 1: to have, you know, in this lifetime. And then I did.
Speaker 1: I looked around. I was like, yeah, I have so
Speaker 1: much love in my life. And Sally Hepworth she sort
Speaker 1: of checked in when she knew the date to you
Speaker 1: know what had happened, and it was great talk to
Speaker 1: her and you know, be vulnerable, and she just said
Speaker 1: I think this. I think the piece here for you
Speaker 1: is self love. Yes, you know, is to just is
Speaker 1: to just do exactly what you said, fill your own cup.
Speaker 8: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Okay, guys, I've got something that I need to talk about.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 3: So I have a lot of kids.
Speaker 2: How many kids?
Speaker 3: So there's three and three? So three that came from
Speaker 3: my employance, and three that I got for a week,
Speaker 3: no Alis, but what has happened, So I've got too.
Speaker 3: My two eldest did UNI exchange in America and have
Speaker 3: ended up living there, right, so they both have met
Speaker 3: American girls, married American girls. I now have American grandchildren.
Speaker 3: And I never left home or did anything, and I
Speaker 3: was I've never lived anywhere else other than Sydney, really,
Speaker 3: and so I was kind of really excited for them
Speaker 3: to go and spread their wings, you know, move out,
Speaker 3: you know, have amazing opportunities overseas, and I've always been
Speaker 3: so happy for them that they've been able to spread
Speaker 3: their wings, something I never got to do. But we
Speaker 3: tend to FaceTime in the mornings, my mornings, and I
Speaker 3: often get the girls in the bar or the girl
Speaker 3: feeding dinner. And one day it just like hit me.
Speaker 3: My kids are now American, my granddaughters are American. I'm
Speaker 3: never going to live in the same country as them
Speaker 3: for the rest of my life, and any future grandchildren
Speaker 3: I have from my two sons are going to be
Speaker 3: American grandchildren. And I want to be really positive and
Speaker 3: optimistic and really happy for them, and I am, but
Speaker 3: it's hard on me, right, It's really hard that I
Speaker 3: can't cuddle them whenever I want. I can't hug them
Speaker 3: whenever I want, I can't call them whenever I want,
Speaker 3: because you know, the timing is all wrong. And so.
Speaker 1: You guys have all.
Speaker 3: Your all parents, you have all lived overseas and had
Speaker 3: to leave your parents, and you've all got kids coming
Speaker 3: into this age group where they're going to start thinking
Speaker 3: about maybe.
Speaker 1: UNI overseas, careers overseas.
Speaker 3: And I wanted to know, have you ever thought about
Speaker 3: how you would handle your kids coming to you and going,
Speaker 3: Mam I moving to London or Mum I moving to
Speaker 3: New York? How would you deal with that?
Speaker 2: How do you feel?
Speaker 5: I feel?
Speaker 3: I guess what I want to say is that I'm
Speaker 3: full of love and excitement and admiration and I just say, fly,
Speaker 3: little birds, be free, And that's fantasy me. But in
Speaker 3: my darker moments, I feel sorry for myself because I
Speaker 3: am missing these extraordinary moments. And I don't think we
Speaker 3: think too much about being grandparents when we're younger, but
Speaker 3: you just assume you're going to be able to cuddle
Speaker 3: your grandchildren all the time, and they're going to be
Speaker 3: there on demand and they're not.
Speaker 1: So I've got four girls that are.
Speaker 3: Just gonna have to like I'm like, come oniktok, let's move,
Speaker 3: let's move this situation. I need some grandchildren in Australia.
Speaker 3: But I do want to know whether I'm being reasonable
Speaker 3: and kind of bounce it off the tribe and just
Speaker 3: kind of get your sense sense check this.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I mean I'm close to it. You know,
Speaker 1: loose seventeen and a half. He plays plays rugby. You
Speaker 1: know he could Yeah, he could play in the country
Speaker 1: or could play overseas. I don't know. I thought, because
Speaker 1: Andrew and I, that's my husband, separated when lou was
Speaker 1: only five. I've spent the last eleven years losing him
Speaker 1: every half of the week, and so I thought, you know,
Speaker 1: I kind of got over my grief and my sadness
Speaker 1: and feeling lost early on, and I thought, hey, empty nesting,
Speaker 1: I won't feel that, smug bitch. And it's so weird
Speaker 1: now that he's about to get to that age. It's
Speaker 1: a whole new sense of grief that's coming across and loneliness,
Speaker 1: maybe because he's at that age where you get nothing
Speaker 1: from a teenage boy. So they are there eating all
Speaker 1: of the food or needing the lift, but there's no
Speaker 1: you get the moments when they want to chat, you know,
Speaker 1: so I feel I don't know. And then on the
Speaker 1: flip side, I left, you know, my home when I
Speaker 1: was in my twenties two and have been the other
Speaker 1: side of the world for longer than I lived in
Speaker 1: the UK, and I miss my sister and her kids.
Speaker 1: You know, suddenly I get to see them every Christmas,
Speaker 1: you know, if I'm lucky, and that it's hard. So
Speaker 1: I think when you as soon as you have more
Speaker 1: than one home or bets are off, aren't they you
Speaker 1: do sort of feel there's joy, and there's there's one.
Speaker 1: You know, there's connectivity around the world, but there is
Speaker 1: also you're always missing something. I think when you've when
Speaker 1: that happens, or your kids move somewhere else.
Speaker 2: I think about it all the time because number one,
Speaker 2: I have twins, so I think about it in the
Speaker 2: context of they're going to leave at the same time.
Speaker 2: So I'm just going it's gonna be like my heart
Speaker 2: being ripped open because they're both gonna abandon me at
Speaker 2: the same time. And even though they're only thirteen now.
Speaker 2: My perspective on living overseas is very different because I
Speaker 2: essentially did what your sons did, right. And I make
Speaker 2: jokes that you never know what's coming because I've made
Speaker 2: my way back to Australia. I went Sydney, London, London,
Speaker 2: New York, New York, La, LA, back to Sydney, so
Speaker 2: you never know where you're gonna live. But my daughter,
Speaker 2: who is so American, literally says to me all the time,
Speaker 2: I just need you to know, like I'm obviously not
Speaker 2: going to go to college in Australia. I'm thinking New York,
Speaker 2: London or Paris, but like, just know, prepare yourself and
Speaker 2: my son. I don't know what's going to happen. But
Speaker 2: my perspective is and I think you're really lucky because
Speaker 2: you do travel. You have this amazing business, so it
Speaker 2: takes you to America all the time. So I think
Speaker 2: if I was you, I would reframe it because what
Speaker 2: I think about and I make jokes and I'm going
Speaker 2: to go live wherever my daughter is. She's like, yeah,
Speaker 2: you're not doing that. I was like, I might be
Speaker 2: filming there, you don't know. But my perspective is thinking
Speaker 2: about it as an adventure for ourselves in the future,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, Like in some ways it
Speaker 2: liberates you. Right, we film all over the world, so
Speaker 2: my perspective is like I'm going to have a base
Speaker 2: in Sydney and then just basically go wherever they are.
Speaker 1: When they leave home, which.
Speaker 2: Might be considered stalking. No, No, I think about it
Speaker 2: all the time. I think it's a really real thing
Speaker 2: for a lot of our listeners. I imagine it's.
Speaker 4: A really big thing for people. I mean, I loved
Speaker 4: home my son. My son's age like twelve thirteen to
Speaker 4: UK boarding school, so I didn't know that grace.
Speaker 8: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so we left quite young. And so that's why
Speaker 4: I'm very independent and I don't do guilt trips my parents.
Speaker 4: I don't do any of that, maybe because I was
Speaker 4: trained that way and my son is everything to me.
Speaker 4: And of course I think about when he leaves, I'm
Speaker 4: gonna be like basket case one hundred percent because I
Speaker 4: worried about him so much and it's not gonna be pretty,
Speaker 4: and I feel sorry for my husband, Jason. But at
Speaker 4: the same time, because I've lived in so many cities
Speaker 4: and worked in so many cities, like from New York,
Speaker 4: I mean I left to go to Paris on my own,
Speaker 4: I couldn't speak French and I lived in Paris for
Speaker 4: nine months and didn't know anybody. And when I moved
Speaker 4: to per for Shanghai or you know, Beijing, didn't know anyone.
Speaker 4: So that is not something that I think I'm scared of.
Speaker 4: At the same time, I've only got one son, so
Speaker 4: he is my everything, but not to put pressure on
Speaker 4: him as well. I think sometimes when we paint a
Speaker 4: picture of how family should be, it doesn't always work
Speaker 4: out that way. It doesn't always paint as hunky dory.
Speaker 4: So this is some reality that a lot of people
Speaker 4: don't think about. And even if you live in the
Speaker 4: same country, it doesn't mean that it's going to be harmony. True.
Speaker 2: That's so true. And I think the world's getting smaller
Speaker 2: and my mom's probably listening. I see her less now
Speaker 2: that she lives in Melbourne and I'm an hour away
Speaker 2: than when I lived in Los Angeles. She would come
Speaker 2: for like eight weeks at a time. She would say this,
Speaker 2: and she's right, and it's not good and going I
Speaker 2: need to change that. But it's so funny. When you're close,
Speaker 2: sometimes you don't see each other as much because you're
Speaker 2: just in your life. But yeah, I just think you
Speaker 2: make of it what you will. That will be direct
Speaker 2: flights and everyone, yeah, everyone talking about our children.
Speaker 4: My son has become my teacher, so you know how
Speaker 4: we're parents were always thinking that we're teaching our kids,
Speaker 4: but actually I realized that after having my child, he
Speaker 4: is my ultimate master, seaful teacher, coach everything because he
Speaker 4: is a great mix of me and Jason, my husband.
Speaker 4: And something happened recently that I regretted because I was
Speaker 4: having a very overwhelming day and I spoke to my mom.
Speaker 4: She said something very inconsiderate, so I was already fired up,
Speaker 4: so the whole day was kind of ruined. Then I
Speaker 4: said to my husband, Jason, sometimes I wish I'm single,
Speaker 4: meaning and I did say to my husband, I said,
Speaker 4: it doesn't mean that I regret marrying you, not having children,
Speaker 4: not having my child something. You might not be aware
Speaker 4: that I'm a very direct person. Oh no, I know
Speaker 4: you didn't know that. I'm just telling you now.
Speaker 2: I called you a grace bam bam.
Speaker 4: Yeah exactly. So sometimes my directness doesn't quite agree with
Speaker 4: majority of people because they've got like fucking baby.
Speaker 1: Ears or and or feeling well yeah.
Speaker 4: That is why I train my son quite hard in
Speaker 4: that sense, because I don't want him to be too
Speaker 4: sensitive when people say things that are not even related
Speaker 4: attacking him. So he is really good in studying how
Speaker 4: I speak to him, and it doesn't face him, you know.
Speaker 4: But when I said that, I didn't know that he heard.
Speaker 4: And then he told me.
Speaker 2: After, oh he heard you, yes, okay, so then.
Speaker 4: I was I felt so bad because he's my only
Speaker 4: son and I loved him so much. When he told
Speaker 4: me that he heard me, I started crying. Oh, and then.
Speaker 2: No, no, I'm.
Speaker 4: Not going to cry because I've got really thick eyeliner.
Speaker 4: We've got tissues. Yes, I'm not going to ruin my makeup.
Speaker 4: But because he's so important to me, and I felt bad,
Speaker 4: and I had to explain to him that when I
Speaker 4: was single, I didn't have to worry about anyone. I
Speaker 4: didn't worry about me, and it was so liberating because
Speaker 4: now when you have a family, it's so much pressure.
Speaker 4: And it's because I care so much. I wish I'm
Speaker 4: one of those moms that are so carefree and don't
Speaker 4: care about anything and just let their children do whatever. Right,
Speaker 4: I'm just not like that. And I want him to
Speaker 4: protect himself in every way, and that's why it gets
Speaker 4: to me when things are overwhelming. And then it hung
Speaker 4: over my head for so many hours. But I don't
Speaker 4: let things faster, like when I'm mad at Jason or
Speaker 4: him or whatever. So it's only twenty four hours. That's
Speaker 4: my rule. The next day, I said to my son,
Speaker 4: will you please forgive me? Guess what he said? He said, Mama,
Speaker 4: that was ages ago.
Speaker 2: What are you talking about?
Speaker 1: I know you love me?
Speaker 4: And I was I couldn't believe he said that because
Speaker 4: he's only twelve, and I thought, wow, I think he'll
Speaker 4: be all right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I mean, and we've all done that.
Speaker 2: I make a lot of jokes with my kids, like
Speaker 2: for this is probably gonna sound bad. I only ever
Speaker 2: wanted boys because I was really scared of having teenage
Speaker 2: daughters because I'd seen so many of my friends have girls,
Speaker 2: and I was just scared. I just didn't think i'd
Speaker 2: be good at it. And so when my kids little,
Speaker 2: i'd always say, oh, yeah, I just wanted boys. My daughter,
Speaker 2: my daughter at one point was like, really, like, can
Speaker 2: you please stop saying that? And the most important thing,
Speaker 2: I actually think you can teach your kids is to
Speaker 2: have a sense of humor, yeah, and to kind of
Speaker 2: understand who you are and to kind of have that dynamic.
Speaker 2: And you and Jason clearly have that dynamic in the family.
Speaker 2: And then I think it not only it makes them resilient,
Speaker 2: but I do want to pick up on something you said.
Speaker 2: My husband always says this to us. We do cause
Speaker 2: a lot of our own suffering in terms of the
Speaker 2: amount of worry, and I think we all need to
Speaker 2: remember that, Like we can teach them I told you
Speaker 2: what someone said to me once. You can teach your
Speaker 2: kids to be upstanders or bystanders. You can teach them
Speaker 2: to be caretakers or takers, right, like you can teach
Speaker 2: them make basic good mind stuff. Right. But apart from that,
Speaker 2: in some ways, you know, the world is they have
Speaker 2: to be in the world on their own. So I
Speaker 2: do think what we all need to remind ourselves of
Speaker 2: is to let go a little bit. And I know
Speaker 2: it's so hard, but that's the same as what we
Speaker 2: were talking, so different what we were saying to kath Right,
Speaker 2: you just gotta not hold on so tight sometimes because
Speaker 2: I think ultimately that will make you feel happier.
Speaker 5: Yeah, all right.
Speaker 1: Well, speaking of letting go, it's that time in the
Speaker 1: show where we can let go of our problems, ladies,
Speaker 1: and we can tackle other people's problems.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 1: This is a part of the show where you send
Speaker 1: us your dilemmas, problems, anything you need to help with.
Speaker 1: We are totally unqualified, but we are very enthusiast.
Speaker 2: I stand up with.
Speaker 1: This week's problem comes from Emma.
Speaker 7: Hi Unleasha's I think I sabotaged my best friend and
Speaker 7: I'm losing sleep over it. Debbie, oh that's not her
Speaker 7: real name, is my best friend. She's now fifty six
Speaker 7: and last year she was made redundant. Her marriage also
Speaker 7: ended right just before that, so she's really not in
Speaker 7: a great headspace or financial position. She applied for a
Speaker 7: senior role at a company in my field and asked
Speaker 7: me to be a reference. I have a close contact
Speaker 7: on the hiring panel who called me. In the back
Speaker 7: of my head, I thought, I'm not sure if she's
Speaker 7: totally qualified for this job, but of course I gave
Speaker 7: her a great reference. I talked her up. I was glowing,
Speaker 7: and then my contact asked me, how does Debbie handle pressure?
Speaker 7: And I paused for about two point five seconds. I
Speaker 7: was thinking, God, what do I say? Because she is
Speaker 7: shit under pressure? So I said to them, yes, she
Speaker 7: has grown a lot in that area, which anyone in
Speaker 7: hiring knows is code for not very good. Debbie didn't
Speaker 7: get the job. She called me devastated. I didn't tell
Speaker 7: her I was a referee or what I said, But
Speaker 7: it's eating me alive. Do I come clean about what happened?
Speaker 7: Or do I just do better next time I'm caught?
Speaker 6: Help?
Speaker 4: No, you do not come clean. No, absolutely not, because
Speaker 4: not only you're going to destroy your friendship and you're
Speaker 4: going to tell your friend who's got so much going
Speaker 4: on that she is shit at working. No, you need
Speaker 4: to say to her you didn't get it, apply for
Speaker 4: a new one, and I'll help you to go through interviews.
Speaker 3: But how do you deal with your own guilt? Because
Speaker 3: now there's this lie that is sitting between you and
Speaker 3: your very best friend in the whole world, and you're
Speaker 3: hiding something from her. Don't you think, like, how do
Speaker 3: you get that out of your head? When you see
Speaker 3: her we sit across the table from her.
Speaker 1: See I think I get the guilt, But then is
Speaker 1: by releasing her guilt?
Speaker 3: You know?
Speaker 1: She's kind of dumping that on Debbie's plate, isn't she
Speaker 1: You know that she might feel better for that millisecond
Speaker 1: before her friendship then blows up and everyone's left feeling
Speaker 1: a bit shitty because.
Speaker 4: At the end of a day, you can't recommend someone
Speaker 4: who's not good at their job because it's going to
Speaker 4: reflect on you. At the same time, she is not
Speaker 4: up for it, period.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's more even more complicated from what
Speaker 2: she was saying. She probably does think she's pretty good
Speaker 2: at the job, but she was asked a very specific
Speaker 2: question about maybe her shortcomings and she had to be honest,
Speaker 2: which there's I feel adamant there is no positive to
Speaker 2: telling Debbie that you did that. I've often been in
Speaker 2: this position because I do work with a lot of
Speaker 2: friends and a different project. Our business is very transient,
Speaker 2: right project to project. I get a lot of calls
Speaker 2: about people. If I ever have something more complex or
Speaker 2: nuance to say, feedback wise, I never put it in writing. Ever,
Speaker 2: I say call me, and you kind of also have
Speaker 2: to trust the other person you're talking to, But then
Speaker 2: you can have a more nuanced conversation say look this,
Speaker 2: here's the this person is great at ab CD, but
Speaker 2: here's maybe some things that are some blind spots or
Speaker 2: from shortcomings, and you kind of have to do that.
Speaker 2: I realize so much on references for people in my business,
Speaker 2: and when I've been steered wrong, which happens and you
Speaker 2: end up with someone who's not as good in the job,
Speaker 2: it's really damaging. So I believe in kind of full transparency.
Speaker 2: So I think she did the right thing regardless of friendship.
Speaker 2: And you know, I think there are other things you
Speaker 2: can do. You can keep a look out, you can
Speaker 2: help her find another path. You know clearly your friend's
Speaker 2: really good at a lot of things as well. So
Speaker 2: I think as a friend, be that support person and
Speaker 2: find another way to help her and also help.
Speaker 4: Her to deal with pressure. I think that's really important.
Speaker 4: That's a life skill.
Speaker 2: Yes, totally great, it's exactly well.
Speaker 3: The question is should she tell her? I mean, I
Speaker 3: think we're on in violent agreement that she did the
Speaker 3: right thing by being very obtuse, but giving a well
Speaker 3: known obtuse answer. The question is should she now tell
Speaker 3: her now? So my question is, when you have somebody
Speaker 3: in that situation, how does she know that her making
Speaker 3: an obtuse comment was the reason that Debbie did not
Speaker 3: keep the job. There might have been eight amazingly qualified people.
Speaker 3: Her reference might have been the good thing, And in fact,
Speaker 3: Debbie did not do well in the interview. So my
Speaker 3: concern about fessing up and saying I'm the reason you
Speaker 3: didn't get the job might be completely false. And now
Speaker 3: you've blown up the relationship for actually false reasons. It
Speaker 3: actually might not have been yours.
Speaker 4: So I think the way to deal with.
Speaker 3: Not telling her is to admit that you don't know
Speaker 3: why Debbie didn't get the job. It might have been
Speaker 3: your obtuse comment. I suspect not. I think I suspect
Speaker 3: there were probably other things, and there.
Speaker 4: Were lots of Really it's a really tough.
Speaker 3: Job environment out there, and so you don't have to
Speaker 3: be guilty about lying to her. Very possibly was not
Speaker 3: a lie. Possibly had nothing to do with you, And
Speaker 3: your role is now to be a really good friend,
Speaker 3: not as you were saying, Kath, to just unload your
Speaker 3: own guilt on your poor unsuspecting friend.
Speaker 4: Yeah, we all agree.
Speaker 2: No, No, someone did tell me. Fun fact, because someone
Speaker 2: said this recently, I said, what do you do if
Speaker 2: someone's worked for you? And because in America. It's really tricky.
Speaker 2: It's so litigious, so like, and you don't want to
Speaker 2: give them a good reference. But you have to give
Speaker 2: some reference. And so this is apparently what you do.
Speaker 2: I don't know if you guys know this. You say,
Speaker 2: I can confirm that that person worked for me from
Speaker 2: January twenty twenty one to February twenty twenty two. And
Speaker 2: that's basically code for I'm not giving them a good reference.
Speaker 4: Fun fact.
Speaker 2: Fun fact, I'd give you guys a good reference.
Speaker 5: I don't know.
Speaker 1: All right, that is all we have time for sweet ladies,
Speaker 1: but our lovely, lovely listeners. If you have a reference
Speaker 1: for us, please talk up. Yes, go to the Apple
Speaker 1: to not be honest. Good reference. I love the five stars?
Speaker 1: What about you love it six? Then we can do five.
Speaker 1: We'll do five stars and a lovely reference. And if
Speaker 1: you know someone like Debbie who is having a tough time,
Speaker 1: share our episode with her favor give her a loll
Speaker 1: And if you want to d ms at anytime, you
Speaker 1: can go to unleash Dot show on Instagram. We literally
Speaker 1: read everything, don't we read?
Speaker 2: Please love a DM?
Speaker 1: Now what do we like to say? Ladies? See Tuesday
Speaker 1: until next time, stay unfiltered, stay unreasonable, Stay un bye.
Speaker 1: Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
Speaker 1: that this podcast is recorded on