1 00:00:10,614 --> 00:00:15,294 Speaker 1: You're listening to a Muma Mea podcast. Mumma Mea acknowledges 2 00:00:15,334 --> 00:00:18,174 Speaker 1: the traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast 3 00:00:18,214 --> 00:00:18,934 Speaker 1: is recorded on. 4 00:00:22,934 --> 00:00:23,134 Speaker 2: Hi. 5 00:00:23,294 --> 00:00:26,694 Speaker 1: I'm Claire Murphy. This is Mumma MEA's twice daily news podcast, 6 00:00:26,734 --> 00:00:29,494 Speaker 1: The Quickie. Do you have someone in your life who 7 00:00:29,534 --> 00:00:33,814 Speaker 1: struggles with addiction, whether it's substance abuse or behavioral addictions 8 00:00:33,814 --> 00:00:37,494 Speaker 1: like gambling. Friends and family of an addict often take 9 00:00:37,574 --> 00:00:41,254 Speaker 1: that roller coaster journey alongside them, suffering through those highs 10 00:00:41,294 --> 00:00:45,374 Speaker 1: and lows and wondering why they just can't stop. Today, 11 00:00:45,414 --> 00:00:48,374 Speaker 1: we speak to James, who lost his brother to alcohol addiction, 12 00:00:48,854 --> 00:00:51,694 Speaker 1: and find out what it's really like to love an addict. 13 00:00:52,294 --> 00:00:54,614 Speaker 1: But first let's check in with a Quickie newsroom. Wednesday, 14 00:00:54,694 --> 00:00:58,454 Speaker 1: December eleven, Google has released what US Ossie searched for 15 00:00:58,574 --> 00:01:01,094 Speaker 1: this year, and it's no surprise that the US election 16 00:01:01,254 --> 00:01:04,334 Speaker 1: topped the list. The most searched phrase was who won 17 00:01:04,374 --> 00:01:07,734 Speaker 1: the US election, followed by the definition of demure, while 18 00:01:07,774 --> 00:01:10,694 Speaker 1: the most searched for Ozzie was John's Ingleton, who sadly 19 00:01:10,734 --> 00:01:13,734 Speaker 1: lost his daughter in the Bondi stabbing attack earlier this year. 20 00:01:14,174 --> 00:01:16,574 Speaker 1: We really loved our sports in twenty twenty four to two, 21 00:01:16,614 --> 00:01:19,094 Speaker 1: with the second most search topic being the Aussie Olympic 22 00:01:19,134 --> 00:01:22,694 Speaker 1: medal tally If you forgot, We came fourth behind the US, China, 23 00:01:22,774 --> 00:01:25,814 Speaker 1: and Japan, winning fifty three medals, eighteen of them gold. 24 00:01:26,134 --> 00:01:30,454 Speaker 1: Reagan Our Olympic Breakdowns, whose cringey performance rocketed her to stardom, 25 00:01:30,574 --> 00:01:33,734 Speaker 1: was the third most searched Australian. The celebs we searched 26 00:01:33,774 --> 00:01:37,254 Speaker 1: included Taylor Swift, of course, whose Eras Tour changed economies 27 00:01:37,294 --> 00:01:40,014 Speaker 1: and caused earthquakes as it toured around the globe. But 28 00:01:40,094 --> 00:01:43,134 Speaker 1: in fourth spot on our Google search list was Liam Payne, 29 00:01:43,174 --> 00:01:45,734 Speaker 1: the former One Direction star who sadly died earlier this 30 00:01:45,854 --> 00:01:48,614 Speaker 1: year after falling from the balcony of his hotel room 31 00:01:48,654 --> 00:01:52,014 Speaker 1: in Argentina. We also apparently ditched word all this year 32 00:01:52,054 --> 00:01:54,774 Speaker 1: for the New New York Times game connections. It was 33 00:01:54,814 --> 00:01:58,254 Speaker 1: the sixth most searched thing in twenty twenty four. The 34 00:01:58,334 --> 00:02:01,374 Speaker 1: man police belief shot and killed Health Insurance CEO Brian 35 00:02:01,414 --> 00:02:04,254 Speaker 1: Thompson in New York last week has been charged with murder. 36 00:02:04,614 --> 00:02:08,974 Speaker 1: Luigi Mangioni was arrested in Pennsylvania yesterday after being recognized 37 00:02:08,974 --> 00:02:11,614 Speaker 1: from CCTV images sent out in the wake of the 38 00:02:11,654 --> 00:02:14,174 Speaker 1: death of the fifty year old CEO, who was shot 39 00:02:14,214 --> 00:02:17,094 Speaker 1: in the head while entering the Hilton Hotel for a conference. 40 00:02:17,414 --> 00:02:20,574 Speaker 1: The FBI had offered a US fifty thousand dollar reward 41 00:02:20,614 --> 00:02:23,494 Speaker 1: for information leading to an arrest in conviction, on top 42 00:02:23,534 --> 00:02:26,374 Speaker 1: of a ten thousand dollars award offered by the NYPD. 43 00:02:26,934 --> 00:02:30,734 Speaker 1: He was initially charged with firearms and identification offenses after 44 00:02:30,774 --> 00:02:33,054 Speaker 1: he was found in possession of a gun and several 45 00:02:33,094 --> 00:02:36,494 Speaker 1: fake IDs. While he was being held, investigators from New 46 00:02:36,574 --> 00:02:39,414 Speaker 1: York flew into question the twenty six year old, charging 47 00:02:39,494 --> 00:02:42,774 Speaker 1: him with murder. Election promises are starting to roll in, 48 00:02:42,814 --> 00:02:46,014 Speaker 1: with Labor promising to scrap the activity test that dictates 49 00:02:46,054 --> 00:02:48,854 Speaker 1: how much he can access in childcare subsidies if they 50 00:02:48,934 --> 00:02:52,134 Speaker 1: win in twenty twenty five. Instead of the test, every 51 00:02:52,214 --> 00:02:54,854 Speaker 1: family earning less than five hundred and thirty thousand dollars 52 00:02:54,934 --> 00:02:57,774 Speaker 1: a year will be guaranteed to at least three days 53 00:02:57,774 --> 00:03:00,374 Speaker 1: of subsidized care a week, meaning you won't have to 54 00:03:00,414 --> 00:03:03,294 Speaker 1: adhere to the list of conditions currently in place, like 55 00:03:03,414 --> 00:03:07,174 Speaker 1: parents having to be working, volunteering, looking for work, on leave, 56 00:03:07,294 --> 00:03:10,214 Speaker 1: or studying. The move to abolish the activity test was 57 00:03:10,214 --> 00:03:13,894 Speaker 1: a recommendation from the Productivity Commission after the Government tasked 58 00:03:13,934 --> 00:03:17,054 Speaker 1: them with finding how to make childcare more affordable for Australians. 59 00:03:17,294 --> 00:03:19,974 Speaker 1: Prime Minister Anthony Albernizi will outline the plan during a 60 00:03:20,054 --> 00:03:23,254 Speaker 1: visit to Brisbane today. If you're feeling a bit like 61 00:03:23,334 --> 00:03:26,814 Speaker 1: your significant others writing your nerves today, you're definitely not 62 00:03:26,934 --> 00:03:30,294 Speaker 1: alone Today. December eleven is the most common day for 63 00:03:30,374 --> 00:03:33,694 Speaker 1: breakups across the entire year. There are some theories as 64 00:03:33,694 --> 00:03:36,774 Speaker 1: to why this is the case. Researchers analyzing Facebook data 65 00:03:36,814 --> 00:03:38,974 Speaker 1: a few years ago found that this was the day 66 00:03:39,054 --> 00:03:41,934 Speaker 1: couples decided to go their separate ways, which may not 67 00:03:42,054 --> 00:03:44,854 Speaker 1: make that data as relevant in twenty twenty four. But 68 00:03:44,974 --> 00:03:48,214 Speaker 1: December is more broadly known as breakup season, with the 69 00:03:48,254 --> 00:03:50,854 Speaker 1: next two weeks possibly with the thought of spending time 70 00:03:50,894 --> 00:03:53,254 Speaker 1: with a person or the person's family for the holidays, 71 00:03:53,574 --> 00:03:55,814 Speaker 1: or kissing them under the missiletoe, or when the fireworks 72 00:03:55,854 --> 00:03:58,054 Speaker 1: go off on New Year's Eve, putting the final nail 73 00:03:58,094 --> 00:04:00,174 Speaker 1: in the coffin. If you happen to make it through 74 00:04:00,214 --> 00:04:02,774 Speaker 1: this rocky time, you are solid. Though the data showing 75 00:04:02,814 --> 00:04:05,894 Speaker 1: the least amount of breakups happen on Christmas Day. That's 76 00:04:05,894 --> 00:04:08,534 Speaker 1: your latest news headlines. Next, what's it like to be 77 00:04:08,574 --> 00:04:11,494 Speaker 1: close to someone with addiction? How do you navigate getting 78 00:04:11,534 --> 00:04:14,454 Speaker 1: them help? We find out from someone who's lived and 79 00:04:14,614 --> 00:04:29,014 Speaker 1: lost the addiction journey. Addiction is a complex brain disorder 80 00:04:29,454 --> 00:04:34,414 Speaker 1: characterized by compulsive engagement in rewarding behaviors or substance use, 81 00:04:34,814 --> 00:04:40,334 Speaker 1: despite the harmful consequences. It manifests into primary forms substance 82 00:04:40,414 --> 00:04:45,334 Speaker 1: use disorders and behavioral addictions. Substance abuse disorders can include 83 00:04:45,414 --> 00:04:50,694 Speaker 1: alcohol dependency, addiction to opioids, including prescription painkillers and illicit drugs, 84 00:04:51,094 --> 00:04:56,694 Speaker 1: stimulants like cocaine and amphetamines, marijuana, prescription medications, particularly pain 85 00:04:56,774 --> 00:05:01,934 Speaker 1: management drugs, and inhalance and other chemical substances. Behavioral addictions 86 00:05:01,974 --> 00:05:07,174 Speaker 1: include gambling, internet gaming, compulsive eating, shopping, and work related addictions. 87 00:05:08,174 --> 00:05:11,934 Speaker 1: The risk of developing in ad vary significantly from individual 88 00:05:11,934 --> 00:05:16,494 Speaker 1: to individual, with genetic and environmental factors each contributing almost 89 00:05:16,534 --> 00:05:20,614 Speaker 1: equally to addiction vulnerability. When it comes to genetics, the 90 00:05:20,734 --> 00:05:24,854 Speaker 1: D two dopamine receptor plays a crucial role in susceptibility, 91 00:05:25,614 --> 00:05:29,094 Speaker 1: and then there are the environmental influences like the availability 92 00:05:29,094 --> 00:05:34,534 Speaker 1: of drugs, your socioeconomic status, family relationships, and chronic stress exposure. 93 00:05:35,694 --> 00:05:38,534 Speaker 1: Those who are most at risk of beginning an addiction 94 00:05:38,894 --> 00:05:42,534 Speaker 1: are young adults aged eighteen to twenty four, the children 95 00:05:42,694 --> 00:05:45,334 Speaker 1: of parents with an addiction who were at a forty 96 00:05:45,454 --> 00:05:48,734 Speaker 1: five to seventy nine percent higher risk, and those with 97 00:05:48,814 --> 00:05:54,414 Speaker 1: mental health conditions like bipolar disorder, anxiety or ADHD. James 98 00:05:54,534 --> 00:05:57,254 Speaker 1: and Nick grew up in the UK together and shared 99 00:05:57,414 --> 00:05:58,894 Speaker 1: a pretty standard childhood. 100 00:05:59,454 --> 00:06:02,574 Speaker 3: I think we were similar to many young older brothers. 101 00:06:02,614 --> 00:06:06,134 Speaker 3: We were sick of seas at times, but also probably 102 00:06:06,134 --> 00:06:09,294 Speaker 3: squabbled and bickered and wound each other up, but overall 103 00:06:09,614 --> 00:06:12,174 Speaker 3: say a beautiful childhood. We spent a lot of time 104 00:06:12,294 --> 00:06:14,614 Speaker 3: played football was our main thing, and spend a lot 105 00:06:14,614 --> 00:06:17,054 Speaker 3: of time up at our great aunt and uncle's farm 106 00:06:17,094 --> 00:06:19,054 Speaker 3: up in the Lake district, and lots of really good 107 00:06:19,094 --> 00:06:19,974 Speaker 3: memories of growing up. 108 00:06:20,334 --> 00:06:22,774 Speaker 1: What about when you guys headed into the teenage years, 109 00:06:22,774 --> 00:06:25,094 Speaker 1: because they can really put a strain on a relationship 110 00:06:25,174 --> 00:06:26,774 Speaker 1: between siblings. What was that like? 111 00:06:27,054 --> 00:06:28,734 Speaker 2: We had a little bit of a crossover with friends. 112 00:06:28,814 --> 00:06:30,534 Speaker 3: Nick used to sing in a band and some of 113 00:06:30,574 --> 00:06:33,054 Speaker 3: the people around that scene were also friends of mine 114 00:06:33,054 --> 00:06:34,734 Speaker 3: as well, so we kind of moved in similar circles 115 00:06:34,734 --> 00:06:36,494 Speaker 3: every now and again. One thing I would say, and 116 00:06:36,534 --> 00:06:38,814 Speaker 3: this is looking back now with hindsight, that we probably 117 00:06:38,854 --> 00:06:41,094 Speaker 3: weren't as close in those years as we had been 118 00:06:41,134 --> 00:06:43,454 Speaker 3: when we were children and I moved away to Leeds 119 00:06:43,454 --> 00:06:45,294 Speaker 3: and he went we went up to Middlesbrough. We were 120 00:06:45,334 --> 00:06:47,174 Speaker 3: still very close kind of all when we came back 121 00:06:47,174 --> 00:06:49,454 Speaker 3: together and we had lots of fun times. 122 00:06:49,694 --> 00:06:51,854 Speaker 1: What kind of guy was he? He said he played 123 00:06:51,854 --> 00:06:53,694 Speaker 1: in a band. He sounds like he was pretty outgoing. 124 00:06:54,014 --> 00:06:56,014 Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely, he was a big personality. 125 00:06:56,414 --> 00:06:58,254 Speaker 3: One thing I found was there was a lot of 126 00:06:58,254 --> 00:07:00,574 Speaker 3: different sides to him the time. Maybe hadn't known as 127 00:07:00,574 --> 00:07:02,774 Speaker 3: well in the I guess the wake of his passing, 128 00:07:02,974 --> 00:07:04,854 Speaker 3: lots of people's stories that came out. But yeah, definitely 129 00:07:04,894 --> 00:07:07,374 Speaker 3: a big personality. He could be quite stubborn at times, 130 00:07:07,454 --> 00:07:10,134 Speaker 3: but yeah, big personality and lots of fun. 131 00:07:10,454 --> 00:07:14,454 Speaker 1: When do you remember him drinking? Was that something that 132 00:07:14,534 --> 00:07:17,134 Speaker 1: started early for him or was that in his twenties? 133 00:07:17,254 --> 00:07:18,494 Speaker 1: When do you remember that happening? 134 00:07:18,934 --> 00:07:22,054 Speaker 3: The UK it's different to Australia. It has many parallels, 135 00:07:22,094 --> 00:07:24,454 Speaker 3: but it's also different in some ways. People do start 136 00:07:24,494 --> 00:07:28,654 Speaker 3: to drink, probably earlier he was probably similar to many kids' 137 00:07:28,734 --> 00:07:30,294 Speaker 3: age sixteen seventeen. 138 00:07:30,174 --> 00:07:33,734 Speaker 1: When though, did you realize that maybe it was becoming 139 00:07:33,774 --> 00:07:34,494 Speaker 1: a problem. 140 00:07:34,894 --> 00:07:36,494 Speaker 3: The power of hindsight to look back at things and 141 00:07:36,534 --> 00:07:38,814 Speaker 3: you can say, look, there was probably always a problem there. 142 00:07:39,094 --> 00:07:41,334 Speaker 3: I think one of the things is and I'm sure 143 00:07:41,454 --> 00:07:43,614 Speaker 3: people may even level the same thing at me in 144 00:07:43,654 --> 00:07:46,614 Speaker 3: my earlier years, Nick wouldn't necessarily want the party to ended. 145 00:07:46,654 --> 00:07:49,414 Speaker 3: Always go pretty hard, and in hindsight then I would 146 00:07:49,454 --> 00:07:51,734 Speaker 3: say that there was probably issues earlier on when it 147 00:07:51,734 --> 00:07:54,094 Speaker 3: became apparent, But it was one of his ex partners 148 00:07:54,134 --> 00:07:56,134 Speaker 3: reached out to us just to say that she was 149 00:07:56,254 --> 00:07:58,454 Speaker 3: kind of struggling and Nick was struggling, and that was 150 00:07:58,534 --> 00:08:01,094 Speaker 3: kind of Nothing was really the same from that point on, 151 00:08:01,134 --> 00:08:03,614 Speaker 3: if that makes sense. Before that, nothing had ever spilled 152 00:08:03,614 --> 00:08:05,934 Speaker 3: over to where you could see, yeah, there's a problem here. 153 00:08:05,974 --> 00:08:08,014 Speaker 3: It was probably more, yeah, it's had a bit too 154 00:08:08,094 --> 00:08:10,414 Speaker 3: much to drink on that occasion. Of this occasion, it 155 00:08:10,494 --> 00:08:12,694 Speaker 3: was probably a good ten years ago, I would say, 156 00:08:12,734 --> 00:08:14,134 Speaker 3: maybe more that that came out. 157 00:08:14,614 --> 00:08:17,374 Speaker 1: It's interesting that a partner of Nicks is the one 158 00:08:17,414 --> 00:08:19,534 Speaker 1: to reach out. Do you think it's really quite difficult 159 00:08:19,574 --> 00:08:22,014 Speaker 1: for men to first identify that they have a drinking 160 00:08:22,054 --> 00:08:25,534 Speaker 1: problem because it's so ingrained in our culture in the 161 00:08:25,534 --> 00:08:28,094 Speaker 1: way that we socially interact, but that it took someone 162 00:08:28,174 --> 00:08:30,414 Speaker 1: a partner close to him and woman in his life 163 00:08:30,454 --> 00:08:32,414 Speaker 1: to maybe really point out that something wasn't right. 164 00:08:32,774 --> 00:08:36,214 Speaker 3: Yeah, look, I'd say so. I'd say many cases. Nick, 165 00:08:36,294 --> 00:08:39,494 Speaker 3: even once of us around h knew he had a problem, 166 00:08:39,614 --> 00:08:41,694 Speaker 3: he still very much struggled to open up. And I 167 00:08:41,734 --> 00:08:44,854 Speaker 3: think that's a major part of addiction and especially alcoholism. 168 00:08:45,094 --> 00:08:46,574 Speaker 2: He really struggled to acknowledge that. 169 00:08:46,734 --> 00:08:48,854 Speaker 3: I think there's a funny thing with I think drinking 170 00:08:48,894 --> 00:08:51,734 Speaker 3: culture or just our usual culture maybe in the UK 171 00:08:51,854 --> 00:08:53,734 Speaker 3: what have you where. If Nick would have kept it 172 00:08:53,814 --> 00:08:56,054 Speaker 3: under control to a certain extent, he would have struggled 173 00:08:56,054 --> 00:08:57,774 Speaker 3: to view it in the early days, maybe as having 174 00:08:57,814 --> 00:09:00,774 Speaker 3: a drinking problem. I think by the end he'd acknowledged it. 175 00:09:00,814 --> 00:09:02,854 Speaker 3: But at that point I think he would have definitely struggled, 176 00:09:02,974 --> 00:09:04,694 Speaker 3: and I think many people would have done the same. 177 00:09:05,214 --> 00:09:08,174 Speaker 1: Did he ever really admit it though, James. 178 00:09:07,974 --> 00:09:10,734 Speaker 3: Yes, definitely in the late years, and I think with 179 00:09:10,774 --> 00:09:13,414 Speaker 3: Mum and Dad he was probably almost forced to buy 180 00:09:13,494 --> 00:09:15,774 Speaker 3: things that they either went through with him or helped 181 00:09:15,854 --> 00:09:18,014 Speaker 3: him with, and things like that I tried on one 182 00:09:18,014 --> 00:09:19,814 Speaker 3: occasion when I was back in the UK too, I 183 00:09:19,854 --> 00:09:22,854 Speaker 3: guess my own form of almost an intervention. I got 184 00:09:22,854 --> 00:09:25,614 Speaker 3: his football tickets to go down to London from Leeds, 185 00:09:25,774 --> 00:09:27,454 Speaker 3: which I knew was going to mean spending the full 186 00:09:27,534 --> 00:09:29,494 Speaker 3: day in the car with me driving down, and I 187 00:09:29,534 --> 00:09:32,494 Speaker 3: tried that in almost like a closed environment, to really 188 00:09:32,494 --> 00:09:34,654 Speaker 3: try and pick it up with him, but he just 189 00:09:34,694 --> 00:09:37,614 Speaker 3: shut down. He couldn't talk about it, and I really 190 00:09:37,654 --> 00:09:40,334 Speaker 3: struggled with that at the time, and after that for 191 00:09:40,374 --> 00:09:42,654 Speaker 3: a little while, I kind of said I have to 192 00:09:42,694 --> 00:09:45,694 Speaker 3: step back, But then I realized that I wasn't helping 193 00:09:45,694 --> 00:09:47,654 Speaker 3: at all, and I'd also lost my brother that we 194 00:09:47,694 --> 00:09:50,374 Speaker 3: just weren't in contact for a long period. I think 195 00:09:50,374 --> 00:09:52,254 Speaker 3: he definitely with mum and Dad, and in the latter 196 00:09:52,294 --> 00:09:54,654 Speaker 3: stages of his illness, there was a definitely one moment 197 00:09:54,654 --> 00:09:56,174 Speaker 3: where there was a realization with things. 198 00:09:56,654 --> 00:09:58,894 Speaker 1: How did your family try and get him help in 199 00:09:58,934 --> 00:10:01,294 Speaker 1: the beginning, Who did you reach out to and was 200 00:10:01,374 --> 00:10:03,374 Speaker 1: any of it helpful true? 201 00:10:03,734 --> 00:10:06,854 Speaker 3: I think initially they've supported Nick to get in touch 202 00:10:06,854 --> 00:10:11,134 Speaker 3: with alcoholics. Anonymous supported Nick to get in touch with 203 00:10:11,574 --> 00:10:14,094 Speaker 3: a kind of family friend who'd gone through similar things 204 00:10:14,294 --> 00:10:17,694 Speaker 3: that helped, I think as well. It's definitely worth anologym 205 00:10:17,734 --> 00:10:20,334 Speaker 3: And it was struggling with depression as well, And there's 206 00:10:20,374 --> 00:10:23,454 Speaker 3: probably a bit of a chicken and egg situation to say. 207 00:10:24,054 --> 00:10:27,054 Speaker 3: Was he struggling with depression because of the effects of 208 00:10:27,174 --> 00:10:30,454 Speaker 3: prolonged alcohol use or was the alcohol maybe as a 209 00:10:30,454 --> 00:10:32,654 Speaker 3: result of a depression, And it's probably difficult to say 210 00:10:32,654 --> 00:10:34,334 Speaker 3: with that one. So he reached out to a number 211 00:10:34,334 --> 00:10:36,974 Speaker 3: of times, but we talked about I guess many things, 212 00:10:37,294 --> 00:10:39,534 Speaker 3: different ways to try and help him. And yeah, I 213 00:10:39,534 --> 00:10:41,014 Speaker 3: don't think anything really ever stuck. 214 00:10:41,374 --> 00:10:44,534 Speaker 1: This must have been incredibly hard on your parents. How 215 00:10:44,574 --> 00:10:47,094 Speaker 1: are they handling it? It would have been something that 216 00:10:47,134 --> 00:10:49,214 Speaker 1: would have pushed them to the edge too, I imagine. 217 00:10:49,534 --> 00:10:50,174 Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely. 218 00:10:50,174 --> 00:10:51,774 Speaker 3: I think one of the biggest struggles with all of 219 00:10:51,774 --> 00:10:54,734 Speaker 3: this is that it's very difficult. I think Nick, even 220 00:10:54,774 --> 00:10:57,294 Speaker 3: if he wasn't open, he knew he had a problem 221 00:10:57,454 --> 00:10:59,574 Speaker 3: for a long time, and he was maybe open with 222 00:10:59,614 --> 00:11:02,134 Speaker 3: other people, he maybe just really struggled to be open 223 00:11:02,334 --> 00:11:04,454 Speaker 3: with me as his brother. I know that he was 224 00:11:04,574 --> 00:11:07,054 Speaker 3: very proud and he felt a lot of shame about it. 225 00:11:07,094 --> 00:11:09,094 Speaker 3: And one thing I think it's really important to talk 226 00:11:09,094 --> 00:11:11,134 Speaker 3: about is the fact that this wasn't his fault. 227 00:11:11,254 --> 00:11:14,454 Speaker 2: This was the addiction. It's an illness. It isn't something 228 00:11:14,454 --> 00:11:16,694 Speaker 2: that anyone chooses to do. You can say, well, he 229 00:11:16,734 --> 00:11:17,174 Speaker 2: should have. 230 00:11:17,494 --> 00:11:20,054 Speaker 3: Not picked up another beer art because he had periods 231 00:11:20,094 --> 00:11:22,214 Speaker 3: where I think he was better and then you would 232 00:11:22,334 --> 00:11:24,614 Speaker 3: unfortunately slip back. But it's addiction. But one of the 233 00:11:24,614 --> 00:11:26,974 Speaker 3: things I think is that he never reached rock bottom. 234 00:11:26,974 --> 00:11:29,254 Speaker 3: And one thing that we struggled with, both myself and 235 00:11:29,254 --> 00:11:32,694 Speaker 3: my parents was that to almost let him absolutely lose everything. 236 00:11:32,934 --> 00:11:35,014 Speaker 3: I would say that he was a high functioning alcoholic, 237 00:11:35,134 --> 00:11:37,614 Speaker 3: He held down a job. He never reached that point 238 00:11:37,654 --> 00:11:40,374 Speaker 3: of having almost lost everything, or at least being in 239 00:11:40,414 --> 00:11:42,774 Speaker 3: the throes of losing everything. And I know that one 240 00:11:42,774 --> 00:11:44,334 Speaker 3: thing that killed Mom and dad with it was that 241 00:11:44,374 --> 00:11:46,734 Speaker 3: they couldn't sit there and let him. 242 00:11:46,694 --> 00:11:50,014 Speaker 2: Absolutely lose everything. So they would try their best to 243 00:11:50,054 --> 00:11:50,494 Speaker 2: help him. 244 00:11:50,494 --> 00:11:52,894 Speaker 3: But there's always a question mark of whether you could 245 00:11:52,894 --> 00:11:55,054 Speaker 3: do more, but whether also whether you were accidentally enabling, 246 00:11:55,294 --> 00:11:57,574 Speaker 3: and I don't think they were. They would do their 247 00:11:57,614 --> 00:12:00,054 Speaker 3: best to help him, but on the same squad they 248 00:12:00,054 --> 00:12:02,574 Speaker 3: would never let him actually get to that point of 249 00:12:02,774 --> 00:12:04,854 Speaker 3: kind of losing his house. They would always do the 250 00:12:04,934 --> 00:12:06,054 Speaker 3: best to be positive and helping. 251 00:12:06,534 --> 00:12:08,294 Speaker 1: He said that for a while that you had to 252 00:12:08,294 --> 00:12:10,934 Speaker 1: step away from it. Yeah, but do you ever reach 253 00:12:10,974 --> 00:12:13,494 Speaker 1: a point with someone who is in the throes of 254 00:12:13,534 --> 00:12:16,454 Speaker 1: addiction where you do feel like you've gotten to the 255 00:12:16,494 --> 00:12:19,214 Speaker 1: point where you're not helping, that you can't do anything else. 256 00:12:19,534 --> 00:12:21,014 Speaker 1: And I don't want to say give up, because I 257 00:12:21,014 --> 00:12:22,654 Speaker 1: guess you're never going to give up on your brother, 258 00:12:22,694 --> 00:12:24,334 Speaker 1: But do you feel like you have to give up 259 00:12:24,334 --> 00:12:25,174 Speaker 1: at some stage? 260 00:12:25,454 --> 00:12:25,654 Speaker 2: Yeah? 261 00:12:25,694 --> 00:12:27,294 Speaker 3: Look, and I feel a lot of guilt about this 262 00:12:27,374 --> 00:12:30,534 Speaker 3: in retrospect, but especially the fact that I was further away. 263 00:12:30,854 --> 00:12:33,054 Speaker 2: I tried a number of times to have an effect. 264 00:12:33,094 --> 00:12:34,374 Speaker 2: I tried to really talk to him. 265 00:12:34,894 --> 00:12:37,734 Speaker 3: We talk and I tried to get into things with him, 266 00:12:37,774 --> 00:12:39,734 Speaker 3: but he just I can't force him to open up. 267 00:12:40,094 --> 00:12:42,654 Speaker 3: And at a certain point I kind of not went 268 00:12:42,694 --> 00:12:44,694 Speaker 3: down the no news is good news approach, because that's 269 00:12:44,734 --> 00:12:46,814 Speaker 3: not probably the right thing. But I kind of decided 270 00:12:46,854 --> 00:12:49,054 Speaker 3: to think that if I wasn't hearing too much either 271 00:12:49,094 --> 00:12:51,534 Speaker 3: through Mum and Dad are directly from Nick, that things 272 00:12:51,574 --> 00:12:53,054 Speaker 3: were good and that he was in a good period 273 00:12:53,054 --> 00:12:54,974 Speaker 3: and he was kind of holding it together because this 274 00:12:55,054 --> 00:12:58,214 Speaker 3: was the thing he always believed that he could manage 275 00:12:58,214 --> 00:13:00,174 Speaker 3: it without stopping drinking. He could just get it to 276 00:13:00,214 --> 00:13:02,454 Speaker 3: the point where it was controllable. For a long time 277 00:13:02,454 --> 00:13:04,494 Speaker 3: he did, but then there will be periods when he 278 00:13:04,534 --> 00:13:06,414 Speaker 3: didn't manage to kind of control it. 279 00:13:06,894 --> 00:13:09,774 Speaker 1: What was the tipping point, then, James, When did we 280 00:13:09,814 --> 00:13:12,934 Speaker 1: realized with Nick that there maybe wasn't any going. 281 00:13:12,734 --> 00:13:14,334 Speaker 2: Back in the latter times? 282 00:13:14,374 --> 00:13:15,974 Speaker 3: When I saw him, he'd gained a lot of weight, 283 00:13:16,014 --> 00:13:17,734 Speaker 3: and he had a hernia on his stomach, which at 284 00:13:17,774 --> 00:13:19,854 Speaker 3: the time I assumed was danty. He used to play 285 00:13:19,854 --> 00:13:21,454 Speaker 3: a lot of football, he used to be very active. 286 00:13:21,974 --> 00:13:24,134 Speaker 3: He'd always been of a bigger frame than me. But 287 00:13:24,214 --> 00:13:26,214 Speaker 3: he definitely gained a lot of weight and he aged 288 00:13:26,254 --> 00:13:30,054 Speaker 3: a lot. And at that point Mum became quite concerned 289 00:13:30,094 --> 00:13:32,774 Speaker 3: because he seemed to be His skin tone had taken 290 00:13:32,814 --> 00:13:35,174 Speaker 3: a slightly yellow hue, which, when we started to look 291 00:13:35,174 --> 00:13:38,334 Speaker 3: into that, obviously was connected to his liver and function. 292 00:13:38,814 --> 00:13:41,734 Speaker 3: She'd started to notice that he just wasn't quite there sometimes, 293 00:13:41,774 --> 00:13:43,614 Speaker 3: and he just wasn't all with it. He'd been awaiting 294 00:13:43,654 --> 00:13:45,494 Speaker 3: having his hernia done, so he'd been off work for 295 00:13:45,574 --> 00:13:48,734 Speaker 3: quite some time, and when push came to shove, he 296 00:13:48,854 --> 00:13:50,974 Speaker 3: was to go in for the hernia operation. He did 297 00:13:51,014 --> 00:13:52,974 Speaker 3: open up to the doctor, but he did struggle with alcohol. 298 00:13:53,054 --> 00:13:54,654 Speaker 3: The doctor said, look, you need to be sober for 299 00:13:54,694 --> 00:13:57,894 Speaker 3: a period before this. When Nick went back, he was 300 00:13:58,014 --> 00:14:00,014 Speaker 3: honest that he'd struggled with that, and the doctor said, look, 301 00:14:00,014 --> 00:14:01,494 Speaker 3: I want you to go and get some tests. And 302 00:14:01,534 --> 00:14:03,374 Speaker 3: I think the doctor at that point that he saw 303 00:14:03,734 --> 00:14:06,494 Speaker 3: although he was there for the hernia, the doctor saw 304 00:14:06,854 --> 00:14:10,054 Speaker 3: that there was something far larger at play. Nick to 305 00:14:10,094 --> 00:14:11,854 Speaker 3: get some tests that came back to say that easily 306 00:14:11,934 --> 00:14:14,694 Speaker 3: the count was and I can't remember the medical term, 307 00:14:14,694 --> 00:14:17,934 Speaker 3: but his count was far in excess, wildly in excess 308 00:14:17,934 --> 00:14:20,054 Speaker 3: of where it should be, and he basically had to 309 00:14:20,094 --> 00:14:23,934 Speaker 3: proceed straight to hospital. Unfortunately, he deteriorated very rapidly over 310 00:14:23,974 --> 00:14:26,654 Speaker 3: the next kind of four to six weeks. He deteriorated 311 00:14:26,694 --> 00:14:30,214 Speaker 3: almost immediately to need in almost constant care from the hospital. 312 00:14:30,254 --> 00:14:32,494 Speaker 3: The doctors kind of gave us an update that he 313 00:14:32,614 --> 00:14:34,814 Speaker 3: may pull back around, but that it was going to 314 00:14:34,854 --> 00:14:35,374 Speaker 3: be a. 315 00:14:35,334 --> 00:14:38,974 Speaker 2: Struggle, and unfortunately he continued to deteriorate in. 316 00:14:39,014 --> 00:14:42,774 Speaker 1: That period when he is really unwell. Did he actually 317 00:14:42,774 --> 00:14:43,814 Speaker 1: stop drinking during that. 318 00:14:43,814 --> 00:14:48,334 Speaker 3: Time In the latest stages when he was awakeness hernia 319 00:14:48,414 --> 00:14:51,454 Speaker 3: I think he was still probably drinking once he got 320 00:14:51,454 --> 00:14:53,494 Speaker 3: into hospital. Obviously there was no choice and he was 321 00:14:53,534 --> 00:14:55,814 Speaker 3: onto a drip, and part of I think why he 322 00:14:55,894 --> 00:14:57,174 Speaker 3: deteriorated at that point. 323 00:14:57,294 --> 00:14:59,334 Speaker 2: It'd probably be good to get a medical check on this. 324 00:14:59,334 --> 00:15:02,334 Speaker 3: But almost the withdrawal of not drinking anymore was one 325 00:15:02,334 --> 00:15:05,094 Speaker 3: of the things that I think he deteriorated so quickly. 326 00:15:06,334 --> 00:15:10,214 Speaker 1: As James mentioned, quitting alcoholic propertly can be extremely dangerous 327 00:15:10,254 --> 00:15:14,134 Speaker 1: and potentially fatal For severe alcoholics. Their body has become 328 00:15:14,214 --> 00:15:18,214 Speaker 1: physically and psychologically dependent on alcohol, which means when you 329 00:15:18,254 --> 00:15:21,294 Speaker 1: take that away, their body experiences a range of withdrawal 330 00:15:21,294 --> 00:15:26,334 Speaker 1: symptoms like tremors, anxieties, sweating, headaches, heart palpitations, and loss 331 00:15:26,334 --> 00:15:29,934 Speaker 1: of appetite. The seizure risk peaks in the first twenty 332 00:15:29,934 --> 00:15:31,974 Speaker 1: four to forty eight hours, and what is known as 333 00:15:32,014 --> 00:15:35,254 Speaker 1: the DTS, the delirium tremens is at its highest risk 334 00:15:35,334 --> 00:15:38,574 Speaker 1: between forty eight and seventy two hours. The DTS can 335 00:15:38,614 --> 00:15:42,254 Speaker 1: be life threatening with a high fever, hallucinations, severe confusion, 336 00:15:42,294 --> 00:15:45,694 Speaker 1: and seizures. A sudden stop of alcohol for a severely 337 00:15:45,734 --> 00:15:50,494 Speaker 1: dependent alcoholic can also lead to cardiac complications. Electrolyte imbalances, 338 00:15:50,534 --> 00:15:55,654 Speaker 1: severe dehydration, and neurological issues like confusion, optic nerve paralysis, 339 00:15:55,734 --> 00:15:59,574 Speaker 1: muscle coordination problems, and memory loss. Your risk of severe 340 00:15:59,614 --> 00:16:02,614 Speaker 1: complications are higher if you already have a history of 341 00:16:02,654 --> 00:16:05,894 Speaker 1: severe withdrawal, have been drinking heavily for more than ten years, 342 00:16:06,054 --> 00:16:11,094 Speaker 1: and have other underlying health conditions. How was it for 343 00:16:11,214 --> 00:16:14,414 Speaker 1: you and your family when it did get towards the 344 00:16:14,574 --> 00:16:17,574 Speaker 1: end when you knew that he was that unwell, when 345 00:16:17,614 --> 00:16:21,254 Speaker 1: you know that it's something that could have been avoided 346 00:16:21,254 --> 00:16:24,334 Speaker 1: had he been able to overcome that addiction. How does 347 00:16:24,374 --> 00:16:27,854 Speaker 1: it feel? Do you feel angry as well as sad 348 00:16:28,174 --> 00:16:31,614 Speaker 1: and all of the other emotions that involved in, you know, 349 00:16:31,654 --> 00:16:32,974 Speaker 1: potentially losing your brother. 350 00:16:33,654 --> 00:16:35,014 Speaker 2: That's a really interesting question. 351 00:16:35,614 --> 00:16:37,414 Speaker 3: I don't feel angry, I thought him maybe at a 352 00:16:37,454 --> 00:16:41,454 Speaker 3: situation I think anger and frustration at him, definitely. I 353 00:16:41,494 --> 00:16:43,814 Speaker 3: felt that a lot in the earlier periods of things, 354 00:16:43,814 --> 00:16:46,774 Speaker 3: when we had a couple of really challenging holidays where 355 00:16:46,854 --> 00:16:48,774 Speaker 3: our one specifically where he came over to visit and 356 00:16:48,814 --> 00:16:51,294 Speaker 3: he was really having a tough time in hindsight, to 357 00:16:51,334 --> 00:16:52,774 Speaker 3: the extent that I lost him for a couple of 358 00:16:52,854 --> 00:16:55,134 Speaker 3: days and located he was in his hotel. But those 359 00:16:55,174 --> 00:16:57,294 Speaker 3: times was when I felt anger and kind of frustration 360 00:16:57,934 --> 00:16:58,734 Speaker 3: on losing him. 361 00:16:58,774 --> 00:16:59,854 Speaker 2: It was no. 362 00:17:00,294 --> 00:17:03,934 Speaker 3: I just feel it takes an incredible amount of strength 363 00:17:04,014 --> 00:17:06,254 Speaker 3: to come back out of an addiction like that. 364 00:17:06,694 --> 00:17:08,854 Speaker 2: Our col addiction almost is like a weakness. 365 00:17:09,094 --> 00:17:11,694 Speaker 3: It's all just waiting there for you, and the moment 366 00:17:11,694 --> 00:17:13,814 Speaker 3: that you give it a chink of light, can you 367 00:17:13,854 --> 00:17:14,854 Speaker 3: just have that one drink? 368 00:17:14,974 --> 00:17:15,374 Speaker 2: That's it. 369 00:17:15,494 --> 00:17:17,214 Speaker 3: From what I see from people who turn that around, 370 00:17:17,254 --> 00:17:20,014 Speaker 3: it feels like you need just an incredible amount of 371 00:17:20,014 --> 00:17:22,374 Speaker 3: strength to be able to almost every minute every day, 372 00:17:22,414 --> 00:17:24,374 Speaker 3: say now I don't want another drink. So much of 373 00:17:24,414 --> 00:17:26,494 Speaker 3: our society is based around having a drink and what 374 00:17:26,574 --> 00:17:29,174 Speaker 3: have you, and unfortunately for some it's something that isn't 375 00:17:29,174 --> 00:17:32,414 Speaker 3: compatible for them. It's really difficult to think, and I 376 00:17:32,414 --> 00:17:36,094 Speaker 3: think unfortunately Nick just feels sadness about this rather an anger. 377 00:17:36,094 --> 00:17:37,694 Speaker 3: I feel like in the end he just wasn't strong 378 00:17:37,814 --> 00:17:40,054 Speaker 3: enough to kick it. He just he was an immensely 379 00:17:40,054 --> 00:17:41,694 Speaker 3: strong person. In other parts of his life, he was 380 00:17:41,694 --> 00:17:43,374 Speaker 3: a very caring person. One of the thing that came 381 00:17:43,414 --> 00:17:46,094 Speaker 3: out after the funeral was just how many people kind 382 00:17:46,134 --> 00:17:48,214 Speaker 3: of stepped forward and told different stories about how he'd 383 00:17:48,214 --> 00:17:51,494 Speaker 3: looked after them, especially in high school and started UNI 384 00:17:51,574 --> 00:17:54,174 Speaker 3: when kind of new into friendship groups, and Nick almost 385 00:17:54,374 --> 00:17:56,214 Speaker 3: took the lead with things and took people under his arm. 386 00:17:56,254 --> 00:17:58,254 Speaker 3: But unfortunately, I feel like in that situation to do 387 00:17:58,294 --> 00:18:00,054 Speaker 3: with alcohol, he just wasn't strong enough to come out 388 00:18:00,054 --> 00:18:00,854 Speaker 3: of the other side of it. 389 00:18:01,134 --> 00:18:03,694 Speaker 1: Do you remember a last conversation with him, He. 390 00:18:03,694 --> 00:18:06,094 Speaker 3: Was barely conscious in the last weeks I was looking 391 00:18:06,094 --> 00:18:08,214 Speaker 3: at that I was able to drop everything and fly home, 392 00:18:08,414 --> 00:18:10,134 Speaker 3: and so I managed to get a week where I 393 00:18:10,174 --> 00:18:11,654 Speaker 3: was able to kind of be at the hospital every 394 00:18:11,734 --> 00:18:14,494 Speaker 3: day with him. You could tell sometimes he was there, 395 00:18:14,534 --> 00:18:16,774 Speaker 3: sometimes he wasn't. And there was at one point he 396 00:18:16,814 --> 00:18:18,934 Speaker 3: was kind of talking about my son, THEO, and THEO 397 00:18:19,054 --> 00:18:20,654 Speaker 3: was being very quiet in the corner, and he thought 398 00:18:20,654 --> 00:18:22,334 Speaker 3: Theo was a baby in the corner, and he was 399 00:18:22,414 --> 00:18:24,254 Speaker 3: kind of drifting in and out of consciousness and almost 400 00:18:24,334 --> 00:18:27,374 Speaker 3: drifting in and out of reality. We managed a big hug. 401 00:18:27,414 --> 00:18:30,534 Speaker 3: I don't know how there. He was the biggest thing 402 00:18:30,534 --> 00:18:32,694 Speaker 3: for me. I think at the end he was in 403 00:18:32,694 --> 00:18:35,294 Speaker 3: a state where he wasn't fully there. I think the 404 00:18:35,454 --> 00:18:37,254 Speaker 3: horrendous thing at that point would have been if you'd 405 00:18:37,254 --> 00:18:39,854 Speaker 3: have suddenly snapped back to reality and realized the situation 406 00:18:39,934 --> 00:18:41,774 Speaker 3: and how dire everything was. I don't know how I 407 00:18:41,814 --> 00:18:43,654 Speaker 3: would have coped with that. He'd already gone by that 408 00:18:43,694 --> 00:18:45,654 Speaker 3: point to a certain extent. He was there and he 409 00:18:45,894 --> 00:18:49,014 Speaker 3: flash back into the room, but realistically we'd lost him 410 00:18:49,054 --> 00:18:49,654 Speaker 3: a while ago. 411 00:18:51,654 --> 00:18:55,774 Speaker 1: Recent research reveals a significant need for addiction treatment services 412 00:18:55,774 --> 00:19:00,254 Speaker 1: across Australia, particularly amongst young people. Almost forty percent, or 413 00:19:00,294 --> 00:19:03,494 Speaker 1: seventy six thousand individuals seeking help for drug and alcohol 414 00:19:03,494 --> 00:19:07,094 Speaker 1: addiction annually are under the age of thirty. As far 415 00:19:07,134 --> 00:19:11,414 Speaker 1: as recovery from addiction goes, will demonstrate the strongest recovery 416 00:19:11,494 --> 00:19:15,814 Speaker 1: rates of any age group when provided appropriate support. However, 417 00:19:16,214 --> 00:19:20,214 Speaker 1: many face barriers to treatment, particularly in rural and regional areas, 418 00:19:20,374 --> 00:19:24,214 Speaker 1: where only six percent of treatment facilities located. If you 419 00:19:24,294 --> 00:19:27,694 Speaker 1: need immediate help, you can call the National Alcohol Another 420 00:19:27,734 --> 00:19:30,854 Speaker 1: Drug Hotline on one eight hundred two five zero zero 421 00:19:30,894 --> 00:19:34,534 Speaker 1: one five Alcoholics Anonymous or one three hundred triple two 422 00:19:34,574 --> 00:19:38,054 Speaker 1: Triple two Narcotics Anonymous and one three hundred sixty five 423 00:19:38,174 --> 00:19:41,094 Speaker 1: two eight two zero, The Kid's Helpline on one eight 424 00:19:41,214 --> 00:19:46,014 Speaker 1: hundred double five eighteen hundred or Lifeline on thirteen eleven fourteen. 425 00:19:46,134 --> 00:19:48,094 Speaker 1: Now we will pop all of these into the show 426 00:19:48,094 --> 00:19:49,934 Speaker 1: notes in case he didn't get a pen and scribble 427 00:19:50,014 --> 00:19:53,494 Speaker 1: that all down. The journey to recovery often requires a 428 00:19:53,494 --> 00:19:57,654 Speaker 1: combination of professional help, peer support, and ongoing maintenance. With 429 00:19:57,774 --> 00:20:01,974 Speaker 1: proper support and treatment, many people achieve successful recovery outcomes, 430 00:20:01,974 --> 00:20:06,214 Speaker 1: particularly when intervention occurs early. The key, it seems, is 431 00:20:06,334 --> 00:20:09,054 Speaker 1: recognizing the need for help in the first place, not 432 00:20:09,054 --> 00:20:10,774 Speaker 1: always an thing to do when you live in a 433 00:20:10,814 --> 00:20:16,214 Speaker 1: culture that celebrates drinking two extremes. Is there anything about 434 00:20:16,614 --> 00:20:18,894 Speaker 1: this journey with you and your family and with Nick 435 00:20:18,974 --> 00:20:21,254 Speaker 1: that I mean other than him never picking up an 436 00:20:21,254 --> 00:20:24,574 Speaker 1: alcoholic drink? Is there anything that you would change about 437 00:20:24,694 --> 00:20:26,934 Speaker 1: this in a way that you hoped would have been 438 00:20:26,934 --> 00:20:27,574 Speaker 1: more positive. 439 00:20:27,614 --> 00:20:31,014 Speaker 3: Maybe I'd wish that I could have somehow given him 440 00:20:31,014 --> 00:20:33,214 Speaker 3: balance in his life. I think that's the biggest thing, 441 00:20:33,254 --> 00:20:35,774 Speaker 3: was that you just didn't know how to do things 442 00:20:35,774 --> 00:20:38,854 Speaker 3: by halves, almost and that I think sometimes it's almost 443 00:20:39,174 --> 00:20:41,934 Speaker 3: an addictive personality, and sometimes I see that in myself, 444 00:20:41,934 --> 00:20:43,934 Speaker 3: which cares me a little bit. I would wish that 445 00:20:43,974 --> 00:20:45,454 Speaker 3: you could have had balance in his life around a 446 00:20:45,534 --> 00:20:48,134 Speaker 3: number of things, and especially around his relationship with alcohol. 447 00:20:48,254 --> 00:20:50,814 Speaker 3: Do I wish anything different? I wish I guess an 448 00:20:50,854 --> 00:20:53,814 Speaker 3: intervention could have got in there. I don't know, maybe 449 00:20:53,814 --> 00:20:55,614 Speaker 3: that thing to anchor him, to pull him back to 450 00:20:55,654 --> 00:20:58,214 Speaker 3: reality to go. You have to change for this, But 451 00:20:58,614 --> 00:21:00,254 Speaker 3: I also understand that if he had have had a 452 00:21:00,254 --> 00:21:01,854 Speaker 3: young family, for instance, there's nothing to say that it 453 00:21:01,894 --> 00:21:04,414 Speaker 3: would have ended differently, but it would have been horrendous 454 00:21:04,414 --> 00:21:05,814 Speaker 3: for a young family to go through. 455 00:21:06,254 --> 00:21:09,054 Speaker 1: Do you have a message for families who might be 456 00:21:09,054 --> 00:21:12,094 Speaker 1: supporting an addict right now and hearing this, Is there 457 00:21:12,134 --> 00:21:14,894 Speaker 1: anything you feel like you could say that would make 458 00:21:14,934 --> 00:21:16,134 Speaker 1: it any easier for them. 459 00:21:16,574 --> 00:21:19,374 Speaker 2: It's not the person's fault. They haven't chosen it. 460 00:21:19,374 --> 00:21:21,854 Speaker 3: It may appear that they'd made bad choices along the way, 461 00:21:21,854 --> 00:21:23,774 Speaker 3: but they wouldn't have always been done with some mind. 462 00:21:23,814 --> 00:21:26,454 Speaker 3: I would say again, it complained to a bigger issue 463 00:21:26,494 --> 00:21:28,734 Speaker 3: around mental health. Reach out to them and try and 464 00:21:28,734 --> 00:21:31,774 Speaker 3: support them, but also be kind to yourself and understand 465 00:21:31,854 --> 00:21:34,214 Speaker 3: that you're doing as much as you can. You can't 466 00:21:34,814 --> 00:21:37,694 Speaker 3: change that person. They are the only one that can 467 00:21:37,774 --> 00:21:40,534 Speaker 3: change them. I don't know how to say to let 468 00:21:40,574 --> 00:21:42,614 Speaker 3: someone reach block bottom because we never managed it. I 469 00:21:42,654 --> 00:21:45,094 Speaker 3: never managed it, even after Saint to Nick that I 470 00:21:45,094 --> 00:21:46,774 Speaker 3: couldn't be in contact or it was difficult to be 471 00:21:46,854 --> 00:21:49,414 Speaker 3: in contact if he was still drinking. I relented on 472 00:21:49,454 --> 00:21:51,374 Speaker 3: that and went back because I just couldn't. I don't 473 00:21:51,414 --> 00:21:53,054 Speaker 3: think I was strong enough to lose my brother through 474 00:21:53,054 --> 00:21:56,134 Speaker 3: a choice I made. Almost Support the person as best 475 00:21:56,134 --> 00:21:57,974 Speaker 3: you can, but also don't be afraid to reach out 476 00:21:58,054 --> 00:22:00,614 Speaker 3: to help yourself. I encourage Mum and Dad a lot 477 00:22:00,654 --> 00:22:02,934 Speaker 3: to get in touch with a mental health professional art 478 00:22:03,054 --> 00:22:05,214 Speaker 3: just to talk to someone around the things, the impacts 479 00:22:05,214 --> 00:22:07,414 Speaker 3: that when things were at the most stressful, that it 480 00:22:07,494 --> 00:22:09,054 Speaker 3: was on them, And that's something I'd. 481 00:22:08,854 --> 00:22:13,814 Speaker 2: Recommend everyone to do. Is if you struggling to reach out, thanks. 482 00:22:13,614 --> 00:22:15,574 Speaker 1: For taking the time to feed your mind with us today. 483 00:22:15,614 --> 00:22:18,374 Speaker 1: The Quikie is produced by me Claire Murphy and our 484 00:22:18,414 --> 00:22:22,294 Speaker 1: executive producer, Taylor Strano, with audio production by Teagan Sadler.