Speaker 1: You're listening to Amma Mia podcast.
Speaker 2: Hello and welcome to Biz Inbox. I'm m Vernon and
Speaker 2: I'm Michelle Battersbee, and every week we answer your burning
Speaker 2: career questions in the simplest way possible because we're all
Speaker 2: busy over here. We don't give you any sugarcoating answers,
Speaker 2: just straight facts without the need of a corporate translator.
Speaker 1: That's right, m. This week we're getting into job hunting
Speaker 1: whilst pregnant, firing someone, and whether you should invite your
Speaker 1: colleagues to your wedding.
Speaker 2: Let's jump straight into it, mishe. We received this question
Speaker 2: from Isabelle via our Instagram DMS biz by Mamma Mia.
Speaker 2: If you're not following us already, and she said, I've
Speaker 2: been in my job for two years. Do I invite
Speaker 2: my boss my wedding? I actually think about like I'm
Speaker 2: nowhere close to getting married, but I think about this
Speaker 2: way too often. I feel like I should invite my
Speaker 2: boss to my wedding. And I really love my boss.
Speaker 2: I would anyway, But then I feel like, once you
Speaker 2: invite one boss, there's five other people you should also
Speaker 2: probably invite from your workplace, Like I feel like it's
Speaker 2: no balls until you're inviting your whole company to your wedding.
Speaker 1: Do you hang out with your current boss that you
Speaker 1: would invite to your wedding socially outside of work at
Speaker 1: the moment?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I do, Like I really like her.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think that is an indicator of if this
Speaker 1: is someone you should invite to your wedding, Like, do
Speaker 1: you actually have a relationship with them outside of work.
Speaker 1: I've been engaged for coming up to five years with
Speaker 1: no wedding planning inside.
Speaker 2: It's happening soon maybe.
Speaker 1: Maybe, But I heard someone put it amazingly one time
Speaker 1: when it comes to how you should craft your invite list,
Speaker 1: and you focus on three things past, present, future, and
Speaker 1: for someone to get an invite to your wedding, they
Speaker 1: should tick two of the boxes. So maybe they're like
Speaker 1: a really really old friend. So they're in your past,
Speaker 1: but you like haven't spoken to them in years because
Speaker 1: maybe you've moved countries or something, but you kind of
Speaker 1: know that they will be in your future in some way,
Speaker 1: like you're going to move back. You've got the foundations,
Speaker 1: still love them, like they can tick the box your boss,
Speaker 1: they're very present, Like do you see them as being
Speaker 1: someone who is going to be in your life when
Speaker 1: you leave the company, And I think if you're hanging
Speaker 1: out with them socially outside of work, that's an indication
Speaker 1: that you've got like a bigger friendship there. And so
Speaker 1: maybe they're a mentor maybe they're now a friend, so
Speaker 1: they can kind of tick the box. But there's a
Speaker 1: lot of people that you probably spend time with and
Speaker 1: it's like just circumstantial. You know, it's because you're working
Speaker 1: for the company right then you're like learning a new
Speaker 1: hobby or something. But the root of the friendship is
Speaker 1: in that deep. So maybe they won't be in your future.
Speaker 1: And I just always kind of liked that as a
Speaker 1: bit of a guiding principle. Obviously, like you're still making
Speaker 1: assumptions predicting that you'll be friends with someone in the future,
Speaker 1: but I think it's like a good lens to put
Speaker 1: over how strong is your current connection with them?
Speaker 2: That is so smart past, present and future. Can I
Speaker 2: ask you a question that has nothing to do with career? Yeah,
Speaker 2: at workplace? Yeah, but what if it's like your weird
Speaker 2: cousin's new girlfriend. Because she's not my past, she might
Speaker 2: not be my future, but she's also not really my presence.
Speaker 3: Do you have to invite her?
Speaker 1: I'd say no, Like, I also don't subscribe to just
Speaker 1: inviting people to your wedding simply because they're family. Well, yeah,
Speaker 1: is that controversial, But I want people at my wedding
Speaker 1: who make the vibe great. I will be honest with this.
Speaker 1: I've got a cousin who outright fucking hates me and
Speaker 1: my sisters, and one of my sisters is getting There's
Speaker 1: no way she'll listen to this because she absolutely hates us.
Speaker 1: But one of my sisters is getting married. You know,
Speaker 1: felt bad that she's not going to invite this cousin,
Speaker 1: And I'm like, I went through my sister under the
Speaker 1: bus and name her right now. But I'm like, she
Speaker 1: hates us, she hates you. She will make this wedding miserable. Like,
Speaker 1: this is not someone that you want in the room,
Speaker 1: and you don't want the anxiety of kind of dealing
Speaker 1: with someone who makes you feel uncomfortable just because they're family.
Speaker 1: I just don't think that's right to me.
Speaker 2: Oh oh my god, Yeah, you are much braver than
Speaker 2: I am. But I like that analogy past, present of future.
Speaker 2: I feel like that could change a lot of people's lives,
Speaker 2: regardless if it's your boss or anyone.
Speaker 1: Question Number two, I'm stressed. I'm unemployed and I've just
Speaker 1: found out I'm pregnant. How do I get another job?
Speaker 1: And should I tell future employers?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 1: I really feel for this person, because that is just
Speaker 1: a lot on your plate at one time, and it
Speaker 1: is very normal when navigating pregnancy to wonder and worry
Speaker 1: about how it may affect your employment, because the scary
Speaker 1: thing is you just don't really know how people will
Speaker 1: respond to that and what an individual's perception judgment conditioning
Speaker 1: is like around this topic. And unfortunately, there is research
Speaker 1: that shows there is still discrimination that exists against pregnant
Speaker 1: and parent workers and that sucks, and we really do
Speaker 1: still have such a long way to go with this.
Speaker 1: But it's for that reason that I would recommend if
Speaker 1: you are pregnant and job hunting and you can hide it,
Speaker 1: definitely do your best to through the interview process. I mean,
Speaker 1: it is probably a good thing these days that so
Speaker 1: much is virtual in that regard, but I think it's
Speaker 1: best not to disclose your pregnant until you have the
Speaker 1: offer on the table. You don't owe it to the interviewer.
Speaker 1: To like let them know early in the process. I
Speaker 1: think it is right to let them know before you
Speaker 1: sign the contract, though, just shows that you're upfront. It's
Speaker 1: like a good demonstration of your integrity, I think, But
Speaker 1: it's also just a way to protect yourself in case
Speaker 1: there is any bias in the room until you've got
Speaker 1: a firm offer on the table, and then I would
Speaker 1: just be up front with them and let them know
Speaker 1: you know where you're at in the pregnancy, let them
Speaker 1: know that you're excited about the opportunity and you know,
Speaker 1: willing to work with them on what that period may
Speaker 1: look like once you get there.
Speaker 2: I can't believe that it's still like so discriminatory against
Speaker 2: pregnant women when it comes to find jobs and keeping jobs,
Speaker 2: even like letting people go. I think if you can
Speaker 2: hide it, that's great, but it also sucks that you
Speaker 2: have to.
Speaker 1: I know, it absolutely does, and I wish that wasn't
Speaker 1: the answer. But I just think there was a research
Speaker 1: study done in Australia like last year, and it was
Speaker 1: the first study in over a decade that looked into
Speaker 1: this topic, and it came out with stats that did
Speaker 1: prove that this kind of discrimination and bias did still exist.
Speaker 1: But I think that's also why you do definitely want
Speaker 1: to let them know once you've got the offer, but
Speaker 1: before you sign, because you do also want to get
Speaker 1: a read on what their response is, like how celebratory
Speaker 1: they are, how accommodating they are, if they have a
Speaker 1: family themselves, if there are examples of other parents within
Speaker 1: the workplace that they've supported through their first pregnancy, second pregnancy,
Speaker 1: whatever it is. I think those are then conversations you
Speaker 1: can have once it's out on the table, because I
Speaker 1: also would hate to see a pregnant woman then going
Speaker 1: into an environment that isn't going to treat her well,
Speaker 1: and I don't think, you know, anyone would really want that.
Speaker 1: So it's also an opportunity to identify like if culturally
Speaker 1: they're going to be a supportive and safe place for you,
Speaker 1: which you know, you'd really hope in twenty twenty five
Speaker 1: that that's what you're walking into. But unfortunately, and that's
Speaker 1: the part that makes it scary, you really just don't
Speaker 1: know how people will respond until you kind of start
Speaker 1: having those conversations.
Speaker 2: Oh well, I guess I won't get pregnant.
Speaker 1: Then no, I would say, you're in a very good
Speaker 1: environment to get pregnant.
Speaker 2: Our third and final question comes from Chanel and she
Speaker 2: wrote into the biz email, I want to write your
Speaker 2: questions into the bits email will put a link in
Speaker 2: our show notes. It's very easy for you. And she said,
Speaker 2: I run a small business and I have to fire someone.
Speaker 2: How do I do it? And how do I know
Speaker 2: if I should do it? Oh, I've never ever ever
Speaker 2: experienced this, but Mish, have you? Surely you have?
Speaker 1: Yes, I've fired many many people in my time. This
Speaker 1: is tough. And as a small business owner or as
Speaker 1: like a founder maybe early in your journey, I think
Speaker 1: it's one of the toughest lessons that you learn. And
Speaker 1: I always had this saying in the back of my mind,
Speaker 1: but I kind of learned it the hard way, and
Speaker 1: it is higher, slow, fire, fast, and that is really
Speaker 1: how you need to operate in business. And I think
Speaker 1: even if you're at the point where you're asking the
Speaker 1: question like how do I know if I should do it,
Speaker 1: you already know. You know. It's kind of like if
Speaker 1: you're wondering if you'd like your boyfriend and or love
Speaker 1: your boyfriend. If you're kind of asking that question, then
Speaker 1: you probably know that they're not the one. It can
Speaker 1: be really hard to let people go, and often, as
Speaker 1: like a founder or as a manager, if you've hired
Speaker 1: the person, you feel responsible, like you want them to thrive,
Speaker 1: you want them to shine, and you can often feel
Speaker 1: like it's your fault almost that they haven't been able
Speaker 1: to get there, And so that can lead to you
Speaker 1: like giving people multiple choices and kind of making excuses
Speaker 1: for poor performance, which at the end of the day
Speaker 1: just ends up making it so much more painful and
Speaker 1: so much more excruciating then it needs to be. And
Speaker 1: so my advice is definitely to act as fast as
Speaker 1: possible once you get a sense that someone's not the
Speaker 1: right person for the role. But I do operate under
Speaker 1: the policy of no surprises. So if you are going
Speaker 1: to let someone go ethically and morally, I always feel
Speaker 1: like it should not come as a surprise to that
Speaker 1: person that they are being let go. If it comes
Speaker 1: as a surprise, then I don't feel like I've done
Speaker 1: my job well enough, Like I haven't communicated with them
Speaker 1: transparently enough, I haven't given them clear feedback on their performance.
Speaker 1: I haven't maybe put them on a performance improvement plan.
Speaker 1: I mean, I do operate a business in California where
Speaker 1: it's at will employment. So in California we can just
Speaker 1: fire people whenever we like, it's actually crazy. But even
Speaker 1: with that in mind, like would always make sure have
Speaker 1: been really clear with a person that they're underperforming, created
Speaker 1: paper trails, set KPIs for them to meet with deadlines,
Speaker 1: and then if those aren't met they are released. You
Speaker 1: know you're setting them free. That's also another way to
Speaker 1: think about it. But yeah, just making sure that there
Speaker 1: is a valid business reason for the employment no longer
Speaker 1: existing moments is a challenging one because it can often
Speaker 1: feel a little bit more emotional, which is why it's
Speaker 1: good to have everything documented and just stick to the facts.
Speaker 1: But if the business is changing, that's usually an easier
Speaker 1: thing to convey to someone and it's like less personal
Speaker 1: or if you're downsizing, that also makes it easier to
Speaker 1: let people go because it's not so tied to their
Speaker 1: individual performance. That's all my advice on that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I also feel like as an employee, I remember
Speaker 2: when I first started, I think that probationary period, like
Speaker 2: if you're going to let someone go, do it during
Speaker 2: them because for me, like I never really felt like
Speaker 2: I was in the job until I passed that, so
Speaker 2: I feel like if something would have happened in between
Speaker 2: that period, it wouldn't have felt so drastic.
Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely with probation periods like those are there for
Speaker 1: a reason, especially in Australia, where it actually is really
Speaker 1: hard to fire people, to be honest, like the law
Speaker 1: is much more in favor of employees in austral as
Speaker 1: opposed to employers like it is in the States. But yeah,
Speaker 1: it never feels good letting people go. If it doesn't
Speaker 1: hurt you a bit, then you've lost you know, compassion
Speaker 1: or empathys as a human. So it is definitely normal
Speaker 1: that it feels hard and it's tough. But I think
Speaker 1: if you're acting under the guise of that no surprises policy,
Speaker 1: then it just makes the conversations easier and you know
Speaker 1: that you've given them a fair chance and a shot
Speaker 1: to prove themselves and it just hasn't worked out. And
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, employment is a transaction
Speaker 1: and it happens and both parties move on. Thanks for
Speaker 1: helping us clear the busy inbox. If you've got a
Speaker 1: work question, send it our way. You'll find a link
Speaker 1: to submit your questions in the show.
Speaker 2: Notes, and if you missed any of our other episodes,
Speaker 2: just scroll back up into your feed. We recently did
Speaker 2: an episode on owning your redundancy. It's relevant to anyone
Speaker 2: feeling like they're starting all over again, and we'll also
Speaker 2: put a link to that in our show notes and
Speaker 2: we'll be back here in your biz in box next week.
Speaker 3: Bye bye, Mamma.
Speaker 2: Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters that
Speaker 2: this podcast is recorded on