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Speaker 1: This episode is brought to you by Prime Videos incredible

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Speaker 1: new film Thirteen Lives, based on the gripping true story

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Speaker 1: of the twenty eighteen tai Cave rescue. If you've been

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Speaker 1: listening for a while, you'll know of this story from

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Speaker 1: my all time favorite episode with doctor Richard Harris in

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Speaker 1: episode one oh two, and now you can watch it

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Speaker 1: unravel from August fifth.

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Speaker 2: Be realistic, but also have your dreams and your aspirations,

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Speaker 2: and you know you also need to be able to

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Speaker 2: afford to look after yourself in this world. So it's

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Speaker 2: a balance between the two things. I think take some

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Speaker 2: things personally when it's right to do so, and other

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Speaker 2: times just accept that it wasn't your time and it's

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Speaker 2: not a reason to give up and to stop.

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Speaker 3: What is hard an.

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Speaker 2: Inverted commas for me is going to be very different

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Speaker 2: to what it's hard for someone. But it's all relative

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Speaker 2: and it's all hard, and I think in any situation

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Speaker 2: there's always light at the end of the tunnel.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to the cs the YA Podcast. Busy and happy

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Speaker 1: are not the same thing. We too rarely question what

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Speaker 1: makes the heart seeing. We work, then we rest, but

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Speaker 1: rarely we play and often don't realize there's more than

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Speaker 1: one way. So this is a platform to hear and

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Speaker 1: explore the stories of those who found lives They adore,

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Speaker 1: the good, bad and ugly, the best and worst day

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Speaker 1: will bear all the facets of seizing your Yeay. I'm

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Speaker 1: Sarah Davidson or a spoonful of Sarah, a lawyer turned

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Speaker 1: funentrepreneur who swapped the suits and heels to co found

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Speaker 1: matcha Maiden and matcha Milk Bark. Caesa is a series

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Speaker 1: of conversations on finding a life you love and exploring

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Speaker 1: the self doubt, challenge, joy.

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Speaker 3: And fulfillment along the way.

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Speaker 4: Hello, lovely aighborhood.

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Speaker 1: Today's guest is special for so many different reasons, not

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Speaker 1: least because we were born just three days apart and

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Speaker 1: have so much else in common. You'll hear me say,

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Speaker 1: I think we'd be dear friends if we lived in

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Speaker 1: the same city. And I've admired this amazing woman for

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Speaker 1: many years from Afar. Like many of our guests, you

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Speaker 1: may have heard about Aaron Holland in one context that

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Speaker 1: doesn't necessarily represent the entirety of who she is. You

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Speaker 1: might have first encountered her as Miss World Australia twenty thirteen.

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Speaker 1: But there is so much more depth than detailed to

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Speaker 1: her path yay that somehow flies under the radar. For example,

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Speaker 1: she not only has an incredible voice, she's actually a

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Speaker 1: classically trained soprano singer, graduated with a Bachelor of Classical

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Speaker 1: Voice from the Sydney Conservatorium of Music. Is also qualified

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Speaker 1: in clarinet music, theater, jazz and tap, and initially dreamt

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Speaker 1: of being on Broadway. Also, like many of our guests,

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Speaker 1: Aaron hasn't ended up exactly where she might have planned,

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Speaker 1: but is seizing all her yeay nonetheless in presenting TV work,

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Speaker 1: ambassadorships and the coolest role ever with the gigantic Pakistan

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Speaker 1: Sluper League as a cricket presenter. Her experience working with

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Speaker 1: the PSL in such a different culture deserves a whole

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Speaker 1: separate episode, which I actually think we'll try and do

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Speaker 1: next time she's over there. We spoke about it a

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Speaker 1: little bit offline, and if anyone is interested let us

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Speaker 1: know we can do a different chat about that. But

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Speaker 1: as promised in the anonymous Q and A episode, it's

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Speaker 1: Erin's journey with Fatilla and IVF that we're mainly here

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Speaker 1: to chat about today. This is one of the only

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Speaker 1: podcasts Aaron has done on the topic since first opening

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Speaker 1: up a little earlier this year about her challenges with

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Speaker 1: conceiving and the IVF process, and I'm so so honored

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Speaker 1: that she agreed to come on the show and shares

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Speaker 1: so openly and honestly about what it has involved physically, mentally,

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Speaker 1: and emotionally.

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Speaker 3: For her so far.

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Speaker 1: I'll let you hear the rest from Erin directly, but

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Speaker 1: I really hope you all learn as much as I did,

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Speaker 1: enjoy her beautiful energy as much as I did, and

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Speaker 1: particularly if anyone is going through anything similar, that this

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Speaker 1: might have helped you, even in some small way, feel

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Speaker 1: a little bit less alone. Lovely Eron, Welcome to CZA.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so happy to be here. Thanks for having me.

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Speaker 1: Oh, I'm so excited. I've said a couple of times

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Speaker 1: now this We've had a few false starts, but I

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Speaker 1: also said before we started recording that you're one of

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Speaker 1: those people who I haven't had the pleasure of spending

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Speaker 1: much time with in real life. But I just feel

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Speaker 1: like if we lived close to each other, I would

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Speaker 1: be in your pocket.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely. I think you should come here. I should get

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Speaker 3: down to Welburn way more often than I do. I think, yeah,

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Speaker 3: we'd definitely be great mates. But I'm so happy to

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Speaker 3: be chatting to you, and I feel like I know

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Speaker 3: you anyway. It's it's fine, I know me too, oh

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Speaker 3: my gosh.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, it's just been amazing to watch so many

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Speaker 1: different parts of your journey from a far You've been

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Speaker 1: such an inspiration and role model, and particularly in the

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Speaker 1: last couple of months and maybe year. I think we

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Speaker 1: got married around the same time, and then we didn't

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Speaker 1: get our honeymoons at the same time, and then we

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Speaker 1: had our replacement honeymoons at the same time.

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Speaker 2: That was weird, wasn't it, Like pretty much the exact

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Speaker 2: same time. Very different places we went to, but pretty

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Speaker 2: much the exact same time. I know, Oh my gosh,

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Speaker 2: I feel your pain. Girlfriend, We've really had the same

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Speaker 2: kind of journey. I can't but so happy that we

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Speaker 2: got it done. It's done, finally a year and a

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Speaker 2: half later, and honeymoon's done.

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Speaker 1: I'm so happy both of us did one anyway as well,

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Speaker 1: because I feel like you could have totally just left

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Speaker 1: that experience as like, oh we didn't get to do it.

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Speaker 1: Then we'll never do it. But it's like, you deserve

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Speaker 1: to have that beautiful little love bubble again, you.

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Speaker 2: Know, I think so, And there was something quite magic

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Speaker 2: about doing it later you kind of reconnect and find

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Speaker 2: that again. If you'd done straight after the wedding, well

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Speaker 2: of course you're in that love bubble, but to sort

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Speaker 2: of try and create another one all that time later

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Speaker 2: was actually really nice. I think moment an opportunity to

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Speaker 2: reconnect in a world that's been well, let's face it,

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Speaker 2: really had dick since we did get married. We thought

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Speaker 2: we were through the worst of it, and we really weren't.

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Speaker 2: Little did we know, Little did we know twenty twenty

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Speaker 2: one was no better than twenty twenty But really glad that, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: we got the weddings in there when we did, for sure.

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Speaker 1: Oh thank goodness. I just yeah, I didn't realize how

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Speaker 1: close it actually was until looking back, and I was like.

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Speaker 2: Wow, Yeah, I think the wedding gods were looking down

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Speaker 2: on us just for that tiny little window before or

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Speaker 2: help recluse for the second half of twenty twenty one

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Speaker 2: for sure.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well, as you may know, you may not know.

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Speaker 1: I love to kick off every episode with a little

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Speaker 1: icebreaker before we jump into your story, and particularly for

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Speaker 1: people like yourself who are not only incredibly stunning, hugely successful,

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Speaker 1: and who often people have walked into your life through

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Speaker 1: a chapter like Miss Universe or a big TV career,

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Speaker 1: It's easy to forget that you're just a human who

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Speaker 1: has many relatable, down to earth sides to you. So

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Speaker 1: what would you say, or what would Cutsy say is

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Speaker 1: the most normal relatable thing about you?

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Speaker 2: I mean, deep down, I'm just a little boging kid

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Speaker 2: that grew up in far North Queensland, Like I'm from

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Speaker 2: cans and I say that word Bogan with love, like

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Speaker 2: we're you know, so relaxed, so down to earth. Just

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Speaker 2: you know, my childhood was amazing growing up there, and

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Speaker 2: whilst it had none of the industry, none of the

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Speaker 2: life that I live these days, it had so many

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Speaker 2: wonderful things that I think have just made me a

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Speaker 2: more relatable person now that I'm doing what I'm doing

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Speaker 2: in Sydney, and Okay, I just think at the end

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Speaker 2: of the day, my brother always called me the Bogan Princess.

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Speaker 2: He's like, because you look like you know I put

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Speaker 2: together on the outside of deep down, we know you're

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Speaker 2: an absolute mess and I think that's so true. Like

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Speaker 2: it's you know, I'm being a performer. I'm used to

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Speaker 2: putting on a costume or putting on a face of

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Speaker 2: makeup and fronting up for whatever my job is that day.

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Speaker 2: But at the end of it, I'd really just rather

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Speaker 2: be in my truckie sitting on the couch, want be

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Speaker 2: eating a bag of all teasers, and yeah, just just

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Speaker 2: being really relaxed. And I think growing up in Cans

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Speaker 2: and growing up with the very very basic, very easy

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Speaker 2: going lifestyle that I had has set me in goodstead

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Speaker 2: for you know, what's been a really crazy Yeah, I

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Speaker 2: suppose eight nine years of living this career and this.

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Speaker 3: Life that I have.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, just a normal, normal, little bogan princess from Cans.

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Speaker 4: That's what my brother would call me.

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Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, I love that. So it's really interesting

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Speaker 1: that you mentioned your childhood as well, because I think,

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Speaker 1: as you know, the reason I spend so much of

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Speaker 1: this show on going right back to the beginning. The

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Speaker 1: Wayta is the first section where we trace back all

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Speaker 1: the chapters before the one that people often meet you in,

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Speaker 1: and it's because there's, you know, so much of your

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Speaker 1: life that people do know about, but there's so much

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Speaker 1: from before that that I don't think many people really

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Speaker 1: ever find out about because it's maybe not the sexy

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Speaker 1: part of your life or the famous part of your life.

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Speaker 1: But I loved reading that you know your musical flare.

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Speaker 1: Most people, I don't think even knew that you could

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Speaker 1: sing until you started doing more singing videos, and that

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Speaker 1: you started at three years old, and that your whole

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Speaker 1: first life was even studying at the conservatorium. Like, it's

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Speaker 1: just so cool. So can you take us back to

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Speaker 1: your younger self and what you were like as a child,

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Speaker 1: how you got into music then, and then figuring out

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Speaker 1: that that was what you love to do.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, music is the biggest part of my life, and

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Speaker 2: it still kind of weirds me out that people don't

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Speaker 2: know that I sing. But like you said, what I'm

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Speaker 2: sort of known for in the industry these days, it's

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Speaker 2: being a presenter and coming from a beauty queen background.

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Speaker 2: But I've been singing and playing music and reading music

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Speaker 2: since I was three years old. My dad would sit

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Speaker 2: down with me. He'd loved music himself. He couldn't afford

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Speaker 2: an instrument when he was a child, so he was

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Speaker 2: very gifted musically and had the air for it, but

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Speaker 2: he didn't have the means to pursue even just playing

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Speaker 2: in school. So it was something that it kind of went,

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Speaker 2: I'm going to throw it on my children as early

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Speaker 2: as I can. If it sticks, great, If it doesn't,

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Speaker 2: at least I've given them the opportunity. And being the firstborn,

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Speaker 2: you know, it was sitting down playing the recorder, tinkling

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Speaker 2: around listening to music I've got such a good education

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Speaker 2: of sort of like eighties, nineties noughties rock. Thanks Dad,

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Speaker 2: as he loved it, like, you know, to the point

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Speaker 2: wh I remember. I think I was around seven years

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Speaker 2: old and I wanted an Aqua turn Back time.

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Speaker 3: I think it was his second song after Barbie get Oh.

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Speaker 2: I really wanted that CD, and he was like, how

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Speaker 2: about Time after Time? I greened and I'm like, ah, oh,

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Speaker 2: like thanks Dad for this two AM Matchbox twenty CD.

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Speaker 4: Not what I wanted, but sure we'll give it a go.

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Speaker 4: And yeah, I just I just love it.

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Speaker 2: He just sort of pushed his taste of music of me,

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Speaker 2: and I absorbed so much of it, like even down

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Speaker 2: to apparently when I was a child, I was completely

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Speaker 2: nocturnal and I would sleep all day and then I'd

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Speaker 2: rage all night, so Dad would sit up and watch

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Speaker 2: Rage on TV for hours and hours in the early

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Speaker 2: hours of the morning with me, and I swear I've

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Speaker 2: just absorbed that.

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Speaker 3: And even to this day, I hear music from yeah, I.

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Speaker 2: Guess eighty nine and ninety when we'd been super young,

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Speaker 2: and I know the music and I know the words,

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Speaker 2: and I don't really know why, but I reckon it's

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Speaker 2: because I've just sat there like a little blob and

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Speaker 2: by osmosis have absorbed all of this music from such

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Speaker 2: a young age. But you know, I started playing the

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Speaker 2: clarinet when I was.

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Speaker 3: Eight years old. I was actually a very good clarinetist.

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Speaker 2: So I got all of my examinations up to an AMOS,

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Speaker 2: which if you're into music, you'll know that it's a

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Speaker 2: DO GRADEES one to eight, and then there's other qualifyss

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Speaker 2: after that, so music theory, vocal exams, clarinet exams.

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Speaker 3: I think I did music in grade twelve.

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Speaker 2: I didn't even sing for that, which I ended up

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Speaker 2: doing at the conservatorium, but I played clarinet and I

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Speaker 2: kind of total the idea of being a professional instrumentalist

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Speaker 2: post school at university, and I sort of figured out

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Speaker 2: when I was around fourteen years old, when I was

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Speaker 2: also dancing at the same time that I wanted to

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Speaker 2: be on the stage in the musical, not underneath it

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Speaker 2: in the orchestra.

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Speaker 3: I was too much of a chef pony. I wanted

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Speaker 3: to be right and center.

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Speaker 2: I was like, I want to be like sitting underneath

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Speaker 2: playing for the people on stage.

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Speaker 3: I want to be on stage. And Mom's like, of

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Speaker 3: course you do.

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Speaker 1: No surprises to us, Darling, no surprises to us.

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Speaker 2: And growing up in Cans, you know, playing music wasn't cool.

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Speaker 2: If you're a sporty that was cool. If you're you know,

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Speaker 2: someone who wores gate shoes and hang out with the

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Speaker 2: stoners in the backyard, that was cool. It certainly wasn't

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Speaker 2: cool to play the clarinet. But luckily I just I

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Speaker 2: always had this feeling of I get me wrong. I

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Speaker 2: hated not being cool. Everyone wants to be cool when

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Speaker 2: they're in school, and I really wasn't. I was so tall,

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Speaker 2: so awkward, played a clarinet, big buck teeth, just wanted

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Speaker 2: to be friends with everyone.

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Speaker 4: Really wasn't.

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Speaker 2: But I always knew, like, I'm good at this and

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Speaker 2: this is my place, and I found my people and

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Speaker 2: I never ever went straight away from not wanting to

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Speaker 2: do what I was doing with music and pushing myself

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Speaker 2: as much.

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Speaker 3: As I did because I knew I was good at it.

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Speaker 2: And I think for so many kids, you just want

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Speaker 2: to find something that you're good at and a place

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Speaker 2: where you belong, and for me.

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Speaker 3: That was music.

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Speaker 2: That was hanging out with my music friends, and you know,

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Speaker 2: we weren't cool, but we didn't care, and we were

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Speaker 2: so busy with everything that we did. So even though

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Speaker 2: I grew up in cans which is obviously, you know,

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Speaker 2: quite regional, very far away from our next major city,

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Speaker 2: which is Brisbane two hours and a plane away, we

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Speaker 2: still had a lot of amazing teachers and quality education

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Speaker 2: and competitions in that area. So I really did hone

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Speaker 2: a skill set which obviously I had ability for and

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Speaker 2: a talent for, but I did actually have access to

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Speaker 2: the teachers that helped me get to a level where

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Speaker 2: I am good enough to go to Sydney and study

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Speaker 2: singing at the Sydney Conservatorium. And I was the only

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Speaker 2: girl in my major stream of music voice performance in

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Speaker 2: the entirety of Australia myself and there were two guys so.

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Speaker 3: To be a little kid from Cans who was good enough.

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Speaker 2: And mind you like, you know, my parents were very supportive,

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Speaker 2: but they're also really realistic.

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Speaker 3: They're both school teachers.

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Speaker 2: I actually remember Mum flying me down to Sydney during schoolies.

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Speaker 2: There was no chance I was going to schoolies. Forget

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Speaker 2: about it, because the teachers they know what you're actually

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Speaker 2: doing when you say you go into a friend's house,

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Speaker 2: so there was none of that.

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Speaker 3: We flew down to Sydney and had a lesson with

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Speaker 3: the head of Voice at Sydney conn and.

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Speaker 2: She literally sat there and was like, is she any

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Speaker 2: good because we can't afford to do this if it's

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Speaker 2: not even a remote chance that she's ever going to

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Speaker 2: be good.

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Speaker 3: Enough one day.

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Speaker 2: And it's a lot to take on as a child,

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Speaker 2: but it was also really important, like be realist, stick

303
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Speaker 2: but also have your dreams and your aspirations and you

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Speaker 2: know we'll get behind you and support you one hundred

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Speaker 2: percent of the way. But you know you also need

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Speaker 2: to be able to afford to look after yourself.

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Speaker 3: In this world.

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Speaker 2: So it's a balance between the two things. I think

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Speaker 2: when you come from you know, these small towns where

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Speaker 2: there aren't a lot of opportunity. It's all well and

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Speaker 2: good to have these wonderful, you know, big dreams, and

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Speaker 2: I certainly had the biggest of dreams. But I also

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Speaker 2: came from a background where it was okay, but you know,

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Speaker 2: can you support yourself and you do well in school,

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Speaker 2: are you really sure this is what you want to do?

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Speaker 2: Because you can go on study medicine, you can go

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Speaker 2: and study law.

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Speaker 3: You're sure you really.

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Speaker 4: Want to sing?

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Speaker 3: And I was like, yeah, all I want to do

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Speaker 3: is be on stage beyond Broadway. And Mom's like, okay,

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Speaker 3: all right, your friend, no worries.

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Speaker 2: But you know, I think it's that growing up and

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Speaker 2: being supported in pursuing my passions, but having that realistic

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Speaker 2: background of you know, my parents always sort of keeping

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Speaker 2: it real with me as well. My mum was never

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Speaker 2: a show mum. If I killed off stage and it

328
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Speaker 2: wasn't a great performance, she'd tell me it wasn't and

329
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Speaker 2: I go, yeah, you're right, I'm going to go practice,

330
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Speaker 2: try harder, and come back next time. But I think

331
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Speaker 2: that was really good for me, and that's what's made

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Speaker 2: me quite resilient in surviving in this industry that you know,

333
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Speaker 2: you and I both a part of is I've been

334
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Speaker 2: competing and getting an adjudication on my performance since I

335
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Speaker 2: was seven eight years old when I did my first

336
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Speaker 2: step for Black and White.

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Speaker 3: This is how you went? Are you any good?

338
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Speaker 2: Are you not? So I'm kind of used to the

339
00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:33,720
Speaker 2: setbacks of what happens in this industry because I'm so

340
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Speaker 2: used to having a really honest representation on how I'm

341
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Speaker 2: going and where I'm at. And I do think that

342
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Speaker 2: that's what's helped me kind of stick it out for

343
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Speaker 2: I suppose as long as I have and this well,

344
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Speaker 2: because it is really hard and being your freelancer is

345
00:15:47,240 --> 00:15:49,360
Speaker 2: really hard. But you know, if it didn't work out

346
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Speaker 2: doing what I was doing, I would have been back

347
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Speaker 2: home in cans and doing something where I could.

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Speaker 3: Afford to live. I've always had that, you know, You've

349
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Speaker 3: got to provide for yourself.

350
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Speaker 2: You've got to you've got to make this a real thing,

351
00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:03,440
Speaker 2: because there's no one there to pick up the pieces

352
00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:06,000
Speaker 2: if it doesn't work out in Sydney. My parents are

353
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Speaker 2: there for me back in cans for sure, but if

354
00:16:07,760 --> 00:16:10,240
Speaker 2: I wanted to stay here, I needed to really dig

355
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Speaker 2: deep and make something of it. So I'm so proud

356
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Speaker 2: that after I think this is my fifteenth year in Sydney.

357
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Speaker 3: I'm still here.

358
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Speaker 4: She's still here, She's surmised, and that.

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Speaker 1: I think is something that again, like people often would

360
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Speaker 1: meet you as a former Miss World and think, oh,

361
00:16:28,520 --> 00:16:30,360
Speaker 1: she just had, you know, had it all handed to

362
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Speaker 1: her on a silver platter because look she's beautiful and

363
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Speaker 1: she's a Sydney girl, and not know that you had

364
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Speaker 1: been through all this to actually get there. And I think,

365
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Speaker 1: what's so fascinating hearing you speak about that fine line

366
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Speaker 1: in you know, finding a joy or what I call

367
00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:46,360
Speaker 1: Caesarjolla that as a child, a lot of us start

368
00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:49,640
Speaker 1: in an artistic like a ballet or a music, but

369
00:16:49,880 --> 00:16:51,800
Speaker 1: so many people let go of it at the end

370
00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:53,760
Speaker 1: of high school or even the end of primary school

371
00:16:53,800 --> 00:16:57,720
Speaker 1: because of that realism, because it's an incredibly competitive industry,

372
00:16:57,840 --> 00:17:01,040
Speaker 1: because often your parents are worried about that. You know,

373
00:17:01,240 --> 00:17:03,200
Speaker 1: need to build a life and be able to pay

374
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Speaker 1: for yourself, and it's a really difficult thing. It's one

375
00:17:05,960 --> 00:17:07,680
Speaker 1: thing to say, find your joy and stick with it,

376
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Speaker 1: but then you've got to make a life out of it,

377
00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:13,560
Speaker 1: and parents let alone for the person themselves to balance

378
00:17:13,640 --> 00:17:16,000
Speaker 1: those two like, I want my passion, but am I

379
00:17:16,080 --> 00:17:17,800
Speaker 1: good enough for it. You want to follow your dreams,

380
00:17:17,840 --> 00:17:19,720
Speaker 1: but you don't want to have them crushed.

381
00:17:19,359 --> 00:17:21,760
Speaker 2: You know, And they just want what's best for you.

382
00:17:22,119 --> 00:17:24,040
Speaker 2: They want you to be able to support yourself into

383
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Speaker 2: able to function.

384
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Speaker 3: As a fully fledged adult.

385
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Speaker 2: And for me, I don't know if it was stubbornness

386
00:17:28,520 --> 00:17:31,280
Speaker 2: or stupidity, but I was such a one track.

387
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Speaker 3: Mind was it will work, it has to work. This

388
00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:36,440
Speaker 3: is all I want to do. And I've pivoted a

389
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Speaker 3: little bit.

390
00:17:37,119 --> 00:17:40,160
Speaker 2: I'm not performing on stage in musical theater, but presenting

391
00:17:40,280 --> 00:17:44,000
Speaker 2: and being on camera and being an MC and you know,

392
00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:45,560
Speaker 2: shooting in.

393
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Speaker 3: A campaign or whatever it is.

394
00:17:47,119 --> 00:17:50,200
Speaker 2: You are on stage, you have an audience, and I've

395
00:17:50,280 --> 00:17:52,280
Speaker 2: just sort of used the skills that I learned through

396
00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:56,680
Speaker 2: through music and through performing on stage and put it

397
00:17:56,800 --> 00:17:57,199
Speaker 2: into this.

398
00:17:57,320 --> 00:17:59,639
Speaker 3: World that I'm in now. So it was none of

399
00:17:59,680 --> 00:18:02,480
Speaker 3: it was And I still want to sing more.

400
00:18:02,520 --> 00:18:04,399
Speaker 2: I still need to get back to singing more because

401
00:18:05,359 --> 00:18:09,960
Speaker 2: it was my first love and I absolutely adore, adore it,

402
00:18:10,119 --> 00:18:12,240
Speaker 2: and I do I do miss having it as more

403
00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:14,920
Speaker 2: a part of my life. But I think doing what

404
00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:17,480
Speaker 2: I've done and trying to grow a brand and a

405
00:18:17,680 --> 00:18:21,040
Speaker 2: presence in this world does inevitably allow you to do

406
00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:23,440
Speaker 2: more of the things that you love to do as well.

407
00:18:23,560 --> 00:18:25,000
Speaker 2: Like in any job, you start at the bottom, you

408
00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:28,240
Speaker 2: work your way up, and the opportunities and things that

409
00:18:28,320 --> 00:18:31,880
Speaker 2: you become exposed to and sort of you know, get

410
00:18:32,440 --> 00:18:35,320
Speaker 2: become allowed to do in a way, it grows as

411
00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:38,600
Speaker 2: maybe you know you and your business grows. So I

412
00:18:38,680 --> 00:18:41,560
Speaker 2: am looking for opportunities to sing more and it is

413
00:18:41,640 --> 00:18:44,000
Speaker 2: something that does set me apart. I suppose when clients

414
00:18:44,040 --> 00:18:47,480
Speaker 2: are looking for an ambassador for that race day or

415
00:18:47,880 --> 00:18:50,560
Speaker 2: you know that airline always that I work with, it's

416
00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:53,440
Speaker 2: you know, you can offer a performance singing the national

417
00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:56,120
Speaker 2: anthem and performing a sess during that big event.

418
00:18:56,320 --> 00:18:57,439
Speaker 4: Singing charity events.

419
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Speaker 2: I love getting up and singing it to it a

420
00:18:59,440 --> 00:19:02,520
Speaker 2: cure for jeans or I'm putting my hand up for

421
00:19:02,560 --> 00:19:05,080
Speaker 2: everything that i can because it's such a gift, and

422
00:19:05,160 --> 00:19:06,879
Speaker 2: I wish I got to use a gift more than

423
00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:10,000
Speaker 2: I do. But I'm so happy that I've had the

424
00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:12,719
Speaker 2: path that I've had, and that's the way to survive

425
00:19:12,760 --> 00:19:15,240
Speaker 2: in this industry too. I think it's pivoting. It's that

426
00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:17,199
Speaker 2: lovely p word of being and.

427
00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:20,960
Speaker 3: Yeah and doing what needs to be done.

428
00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:24,440
Speaker 2: So yeah, I guess to survive in this world, and

429
00:19:25,040 --> 00:19:26,800
Speaker 2: you know, when you don't come from a big city,

430
00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:29,439
Speaker 2: and perhaps there isn't that backing to just keep at

431
00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:31,320
Speaker 2: it no matter what for years and years and years.

432
00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:34,840
Speaker 2: You sort of end up drawing on whatever you can

433
00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:36,960
Speaker 2: and being a kind of a jack of a few

434
00:19:37,040 --> 00:19:39,520
Speaker 2: trades has actually served me well and allowed me to

435
00:19:39,640 --> 00:19:42,040
Speaker 2: survive in this industry. Well.

436
00:19:42,080 --> 00:19:45,080
Speaker 1: I do think you are maybe our first graduate of

437
00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:49,560
Speaker 1: an actual music degree who did continue on and didn't

438
00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:51,040
Speaker 1: let go of it at high school and then did

439
00:19:51,119 --> 00:19:52,840
Speaker 1: go on to study. But you have, as you mentioned,

440
00:19:52,960 --> 00:19:54,840
Speaker 1: been able to pivot to use that in so many

441
00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:57,960
Speaker 1: different ways. You are working with incredible brands like Kataria,

442
00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:01,200
Speaker 1: ways you're working with the PSL like that is extraordinary.

443
00:20:01,280 --> 00:20:03,680
Speaker 1: You've got such a breadth that's not just singing, but

444
00:20:03,800 --> 00:20:07,840
Speaker 1: you've been able to build this brand that is so multifaceted.

445
00:20:07,880 --> 00:20:10,119
Speaker 1: And I know that you know the Misworld adventure and

446
00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:12,919
Speaker 1: all the steps sort of around that chapter of your

447
00:20:12,960 --> 00:20:15,240
Speaker 1: life have been covered a lot elsewhere, and I really

448
00:20:15,280 --> 00:20:17,760
Speaker 1: want to use most of this episode for a topic

449
00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:20,920
Speaker 1: that is more recent and perhaps a little bit less covered,

450
00:20:20,960 --> 00:20:24,160
Speaker 1: but just to quickly get us there for anyone else

451
00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:26,359
Speaker 1: who is has a musical background perhaps or just has

452
00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:30,639
Speaker 1: a specific background but wants to expand. How did you

453
00:20:30,760 --> 00:20:33,400
Speaker 1: make those pivots? How did you start to position yourself

454
00:20:34,280 --> 00:20:37,440
Speaker 1: so broadly to move from one thing to now using it?

455
00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:39,560
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously Miss World was part of it, but

456
00:20:39,960 --> 00:20:42,200
Speaker 1: not every Misworld competitor then turns out with the career

457
00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:42,880
Speaker 1: that you have now.

458
00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:46,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, at the time I'd finished the Conservatorium, I was

459
00:20:46,520 --> 00:20:49,360
Speaker 2: working a lot of primo work, like seven days a week,

460
00:20:49,520 --> 00:20:51,480
Speaker 2: two or three shifts a day, just to make ends

461
00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:54,159
Speaker 2: meet whilst awaited for my musical theater auditions. And I

462
00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:56,720
Speaker 2: got really close to some this is around the founta

463
00:20:56,760 --> 00:21:01,520
Speaker 2: of the Opera, hairsprayh We got close, but not close

464
00:21:01,640 --> 00:21:04,160
Speaker 2: enough in the end, and it was, you know, having

465
00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:07,239
Speaker 2: those knockbacks and even greater stage now. Even at one

466
00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:11,520
Speaker 2: point my stuff got sent to America for Glinda and

467
00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:16,879
Speaker 2: Wicked as an understudy, and I was getting close to

468
00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:19,840
Speaker 2: some and others out first round, and sometimes there was

469
00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:21,720
Speaker 2: never any rhyme or reason to it. Maybe they were

470
00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:25,080
Speaker 2: only replacing one ensemble character. You never really knew when

471
00:21:25,119 --> 00:21:27,920
Speaker 2: he went in for an audition what they were looking for.

472
00:21:28,200 --> 00:21:31,840
Speaker 2: And I know on my CV, sure it had graduated

473
00:21:32,040 --> 00:21:35,080
Speaker 2: the Sydney Conservatorium of Music, but there was nothing else

474
00:21:35,160 --> 00:21:39,000
Speaker 2: to show on that CV other than where I'd studied.

475
00:21:39,080 --> 00:21:42,920
Speaker 2: And it's a very competitive industry. We have as extraordinary

476
00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:45,280
Speaker 2: talent in this country and not enough shows to go around,

477
00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:47,520
Speaker 2: so it's really hard to break in.

478
00:21:47,760 --> 00:21:49,679
Speaker 3: And I sort of thought, well, what.

479
00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:52,680
Speaker 2: Can I get on this that is going to peak

480
00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:55,800
Speaker 2: some interest and maybe get myself an agent, because it's

481
00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:58,800
Speaker 2: really hard to kind of get.

482
00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:00,560
Speaker 3: Your way in there. At the time.

483
00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:05,360
Speaker 2: You saw your just Center Campbell's, now Franklin's, your Jen Hawkins,

484
00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:09,600
Speaker 2: your Rachel Fincher's, all Queensland girls too, Actually not not Jen,

485
00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:11,320
Speaker 2: but you know a lot of the girls have done well,

486
00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:15,879
Speaker 2: had come through the channel of a pageant. And it

487
00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:17,960
Speaker 2: wasn't that I ever was a model. I never thought

488
00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:21,240
Speaker 2: that I could be a model. I never identify for

489
00:22:21,359 --> 00:22:26,040
Speaker 2: being a model. But I saw the actually very vastly

490
00:22:26,080 --> 00:22:28,920
Speaker 2: different careers, but you know, the careers that these women

491
00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:31,720
Speaker 2: had had off the back of doing something like that,

492
00:22:31,800 --> 00:22:35,160
Speaker 2: and I thought, hey, like maybe it'll help. I'll give

493
00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:38,400
Speaker 2: it a go because as a singer, I thought, well,

494
00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:41,080
Speaker 2: I can sing for my talent which in Miss World

495
00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:43,720
Speaker 2: is basically Miss World is miscongeniality the movie.

496
00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:44,919
Speaker 3: It's about charity.

497
00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:48,119
Speaker 2: So well your peace, You've got your talent section with

498
00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:51,440
Speaker 2: the water glasses, except I say, you've got your interview

499
00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:52,960
Speaker 2: and you've got your fitness.

500
00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:56,439
Speaker 4: So I thought you've got your world peace tick, got

501
00:22:56,480 --> 00:22:57,080
Speaker 4: your on peace.

502
00:22:57,280 --> 00:23:01,200
Speaker 2: So and we you know, Miss World does an incredible

503
00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:03,560
Speaker 2: work with the charities that they partner with, and at

504
00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:07,560
Speaker 2: the time, we did this amazing Aboriginal Indigenous outreach program

505
00:23:07,760 --> 00:23:11,159
Speaker 2: in you know, Central Australia, the little community which is

506
00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:15,399
Speaker 2: hours past Kings Canyon, hours past Ularu, literally in the

507
00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:18,159
Speaker 2: middle of the middle of nowhere. It was an amazing

508
00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:21,000
Speaker 2: initiative and we did some amazing things. So the charity

509
00:23:21,119 --> 00:23:24,680
Speaker 2: component was incredibly important, which I loved it. And again

510
00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:26,960
Speaker 2: so sort of like try to recoec myself, like Eric,

511
00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:29,119
Speaker 2: why are you doing a pageant? Like what?

512
00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:31,240
Speaker 3: And people would say the same thing to me.

513
00:23:31,359 --> 00:23:34,520
Speaker 2: But you know, when you break it down, amazing charity

514
00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:37,720
Speaker 2: work that they're doing, which is incredibly important. There's the

515
00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:40,360
Speaker 2: talent facets, so I can show people that I can sing,

516
00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:44,560
Speaker 2: there's the interview, I can chat to people. I think

517
00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:47,160
Speaker 2: I can be eloquent enough to get through that sure,

518
00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:50,400
Speaker 2: and then you know, all all of these sort of things,

519
00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:51,880
Speaker 2: I thought, well, you know, I feel like I could

520
00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:54,280
Speaker 2: stand out from the crowd at least, because when you

521
00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:58,600
Speaker 2: go into these competitions, you're surrounded by the most lovely, intelligent,

522
00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:01,880
Speaker 2: beautiful women you can never imagine in won bring.

523
00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:04,160
Speaker 3: It's so easy to like go within yourself and think,

524
00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:07,360
Speaker 3: I don't belong here. What do you think you could

525
00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:08,960
Speaker 3: offer that these people can't?

526
00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:12,280
Speaker 2: But I think having that talent portion as something that

527
00:24:12,359 --> 00:24:15,080
Speaker 2: I thought I could championaly stand out from the crowd

528
00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:16,440
Speaker 2: with that would serve me well.

529
00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:17,760
Speaker 3: So in short, I.

530
00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:21,040
Speaker 2: Competed in twenty twelve in Miss World.

531
00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:23,200
Speaker 3: I came top ten. I had no idea what I

532
00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:23,640
Speaker 3: was doing.

533
00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:26,520
Speaker 2: So luck with most jobs, your resss you think, okay,

534
00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:27,479
Speaker 2: where can I improve?

535
00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:28,800
Speaker 3: What did I learn?

536
00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:31,399
Speaker 2: And I come back stronger The next year I did

537
00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:34,160
Speaker 2: Miss Universe and Miss World that year and I ended

538
00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:38,040
Speaker 2: up winning Miss World. So twenty thirteen it kind of

539
00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:41,240
Speaker 2: all changed and I met my manager who I still

540
00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:44,119
Speaker 2: have to this very day. Books amazing, we love you,

541
00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:48,200
Speaker 2: and yeah, we've been together for the last I think

542
00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:51,080
Speaker 2: it was eight years this year, which is really exciting,

543
00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:53,399
Speaker 2: and he took a chance on me and helped me

544
00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:56,240
Speaker 2: build a brand from the bottom up, which was amazing,

545
00:24:56,400 --> 00:24:59,720
Speaker 2: and i've you know, in turn, really we have a

546
00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:02,040
Speaker 2: really great relationship where I don't think of him as

547
00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:06,159
Speaker 2: my employee. I think we are business partners and we

548
00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:09,920
Speaker 2: both work together to build a brand, and he's just

549
00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:13,160
Speaker 2: been been wonderful for me. I feel like you always

550
00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:15,639
Speaker 2: need someone in your corner, and to have someone in

551
00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:17,480
Speaker 2: your corner for such a long time in this world

552
00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:21,360
Speaker 2: has really helped me. So the Miss Australia thing really

553
00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:24,399
Speaker 2: served a purpose and gave me, I feel like, the

554
00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:27,879
Speaker 2: leg up I needed to at least get invited to

555
00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:29,680
Speaker 2: the events and get in front of the right people.

556
00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:32,240
Speaker 2: And then, you know, like with most things in life,

557
00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:34,320
Speaker 2: you can have a door opened, but whether or not

558
00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:36,600
Speaker 2: you walk through it and continue to push open the

559
00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:40,280
Speaker 2: subsequent door, so well, that's what hopefully helps you survive

560
00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:43,879
Speaker 2: in this way. Yeah, so that was the idea and

561
00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:47,040
Speaker 2: how I sort of made peace with the idea of

562
00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:50,080
Speaker 2: doing a pageant which was so completely off brand to

563
00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:52,080
Speaker 2: what I thought I was going to do, which was

564
00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:57,600
Speaker 2: a star on Broadway. It's just it's very strange but

565
00:25:58,200 --> 00:25:59,800
Speaker 2: it worked, and I'm so glad it did.

566
00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:02,920
Speaker 1: And I think it's such an interesting point here that like,

567
00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:06,119
Speaker 1: you can go into something not necessarily thinking you're going

568
00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:08,280
Speaker 1: to do it forever or that it is on brand

569
00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:09,720
Speaker 1: for what you wear you want to end up, but

570
00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:12,680
Speaker 1: you can see things as a launch pad and not

571
00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:14,960
Speaker 1: a waste of time, even if you know you don't

572
00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:16,240
Speaker 1: stick with it and you don't want to be a

573
00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:18,880
Speaker 1: pageant person forever. That was my law degree. I didn't

574
00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:21,800
Speaker 1: necessarily want to be there forever and my law career,

575
00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:23,760
Speaker 1: but I don't regret a minute of it because it

576
00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:26,200
Speaker 1: was such a stepping stone and I think we rush

577
00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:28,520
Speaker 1: to need to get to where we want to be first,

578
00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:31,280
Speaker 1: and it's like, actually there's probably like eighty five steps

579
00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:33,159
Speaker 1: before you get there, and not all of them are

580
00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:35,600
Speaker 1: really on brand all the time. But if you go

581
00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:38,280
Speaker 1: into it with this mentality that it's going to open doors.

582
00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:40,480
Speaker 1: And the other thing I love about you is that

583
00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:42,159
Speaker 1: you know it did open a lot of doors, but

584
00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:44,640
Speaker 1: you didn't get pulled through them. You had to choose

585
00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:46,439
Speaker 1: to walk through those and then use the next eight

586
00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:49,960
Speaker 1: years to actively walk through them, work hard to continue

587
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:51,399
Speaker 1: that you know a lot of people kind of win

588
00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:54,280
Speaker 1: those competitions and fade off into the distance, but you've

589
00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:57,719
Speaker 1: been able to turn it into this incredible career. Well,

590
00:26:57,760 --> 00:26:59,480
Speaker 1: one thing I want to ask in that area is

591
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:04,399
Speaker 1: mentioned before, the idea of rejection being given really blunt

592
00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:07,240
Speaker 1: feedback from a young age, that building that thicker skin

593
00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:10,560
Speaker 1: of resilience. And it's hard in an industry that is

594
00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:13,719
Speaker 1: really based on what you appeared to be, like your

595
00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:17,119
Speaker 1: physical appearance or your physical dancing or your physical skill.

596
00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:21,560
Speaker 1: It's quite confronting. And if self doubt and impost syndrome

597
00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:23,600
Speaker 1: is common to everyone, I think is really ramped up

598
00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:27,840
Speaker 1: in this kind of industry. As you were building that

599
00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:32,480
Speaker 1: brand for yourself, how has self doubt and rejection and

600
00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:36,879
Speaker 1: setbacks and imposter syndrome played out for you, and how

601
00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:39,240
Speaker 1: have you learned to manage that and maybe not expected

602
00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:42,200
Speaker 1: ever to go away, but learn how to put it

603
00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:43,520
Speaker 1: aside or cope with it.

604
00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:47,960
Speaker 2: I think it's important to note that it never goes away.

605
00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:49,119
Speaker 2: I always feel it.

606
00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:51,520
Speaker 3: I am actually a really emotional person.

607
00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:54,440
Speaker 2: Like and it does, like I still get really upset

608
00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:56,840
Speaker 2: when things don't go my way, but it's not allowing

609
00:27:56,920 --> 00:28:00,359
Speaker 2: it to overcome you and to derail you. It's compet

610
00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:03,280
Speaker 2: like for most things. Now I'm realizing accept it, feel

611
00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:07,520
Speaker 2: the feels, deal with it, and move on. And I

612
00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:09,960
Speaker 2: know that because it hurts me so much. I know

613
00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:12,720
Speaker 2: that it means that I really care and I really

614
00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:15,280
Speaker 2: want something enough, and I'm always really disappointed if I

615
00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:18,359
Speaker 2: don't give it amazing performance, because it's just like, you know, no,

616
00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:21,520
Speaker 2: you're better than that, and and you know it'll lead

617
00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:23,080
Speaker 2: you up for a day or whatever it is, and

618
00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:24,840
Speaker 2: then you move on. And I've also learned that you

619
00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:29,640
Speaker 2: know to try and compartmentalize a little bit and say, Okay,

620
00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:32,520
Speaker 2: well I wasn't right for that job, but it wasn't

621
00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:35,400
Speaker 2: because I suck or because of how I lolcore, because

622
00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:36,960
Speaker 2: of this and that and everything else. It was probably

623
00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:39,800
Speaker 2: just because of X y Z and they went another

624
00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:42,800
Speaker 2: way for that reason. To try not to take it

625
00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:45,320
Speaker 2: so personally, and it's hard to because when you are

626
00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:48,960
Speaker 2: you as your brand, it is personal. You take every

627
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:52,000
Speaker 2: step back as why don't you love me, what's reck me?

628
00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:52,840
Speaker 3: What am I doing?

629
00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:53,880
Speaker 4: Why did I fail?

630
00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:56,600
Speaker 3: And getting the right advice from the right people.

631
00:28:56,720 --> 00:28:58,720
Speaker 2: So if it is something that you're that you're maybe

632
00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:02,320
Speaker 2: doing wrongly, you can improve, then that's constructive criticism. But

633
00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:05,719
Speaker 2: if it's just there went another way because that person

634
00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:08,840
Speaker 2: is qualified in that area and they want a presenter,

635
00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:11,040
Speaker 2: that's more you know, down the line of that, rather

636
00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:12,800
Speaker 2: than you or hate you.

637
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:14,600
Speaker 3: Just this industry takes time.

638
00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:16,240
Speaker 2: You got to pay your dues great, Like, there's so

639
00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:20,040
Speaker 2: many reasons for why things don't work out, and I

640
00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:21,960
Speaker 2: think the worst thing you can do is let it

641
00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:25,440
Speaker 2: eat you up and destroy that self confidence. But but

642
00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:28,320
Speaker 2: I also think it's important to care, and caring is

643
00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:30,320
Speaker 2: what makes you want to strive to be better. So

644
00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:33,440
Speaker 2: for me personally, it's it's having a thick skin over

645
00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:38,280
Speaker 2: a really soft jelly coating that feels everything and hate

646
00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:39,920
Speaker 2: you to not be good enough, Like I'm such a

647
00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:43,520
Speaker 2: perfectionism and a people pleaser like I just because I've

648
00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:45,400
Speaker 2: grown up being on stage and being like, love me,

649
00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:46,360
Speaker 2: where's my applause?

650
00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:49,440
Speaker 4: The do a good job? Where's my god star?

651
00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:51,840
Speaker 2: I know? And I was like that I have to

652
00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:54,840
Speaker 2: have straight a's. I hated it if I wasn't if

653
00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:56,960
Speaker 2: I wasn't perfect, And there's so many parts of my

654
00:29:57,080 --> 00:29:59,680
Speaker 2: personality where you know, I wish I wasn't like that.

655
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:02,480
Speaker 2: Then I also like that for other parts, because it

656
00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:05,600
Speaker 2: means that I just won't give up like you.

657
00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:06,320
Speaker 4: Knock me over it.

658
00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:08,480
Speaker 2: I'll stay down, I'll cry for half a day and

659
00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:10,560
Speaker 2: that I'll get up and I'm back, you know, better

660
00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:10,920
Speaker 2: than ever.

661
00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:12,360
Speaker 3: And I think it's okay.

662
00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:14,440
Speaker 2: I think it's okay to be a people person and

663
00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:18,200
Speaker 2: to want to yeah, to want to impress and do

664
00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:20,640
Speaker 2: the right thing and do a good job. I think

665
00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:23,480
Speaker 2: there's no shame in that as well, and for me

666
00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:27,120
Speaker 2: personally anyway, that that helps me be a better version

667
00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:30,080
Speaker 2: of myself in this world. It's accepting the knock backs,

668
00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:32,960
Speaker 2: it's taking stuff on board, not everything on board, but

669
00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:35,760
Speaker 2: you know, taking advice from the people who you trust

670
00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:38,800
Speaker 2: and respect in this world as well, because because no

671
00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:41,640
Speaker 2: one is perfect, and you know, some jobs it will

672
00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:46,360
Speaker 2: be keep out the right personally well you know, you know, yeah,

673
00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:49,080
Speaker 2: I think I think that's the thing is it's this

674
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:51,520
Speaker 2: is awful advice because it changes. But you know, it

675
00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:54,120
Speaker 2: takes some things personally when it's right to do so,

676
00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:57,320
Speaker 2: and other times just accept that it wasn't your time

677
00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:01,040
Speaker 2: and it's not a reason to give up and to stop.

678
00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:04,160
Speaker 3: There's many reasons for why things don't work out, in

679
00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:04,720
Speaker 3: this world.

680
00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:09,080
Speaker 1: So people listening, well, no, this is like you almost

681
00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:11,840
Speaker 1: said exactly the whole theme of this show just now,

682
00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:14,280
Speaker 1: which is that self doubt is not meant to go away.

683
00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:16,120
Speaker 1: It's a great sign that you're stepping out of the

684
00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:18,960
Speaker 1: comfort zone and you're invested in doing a good job.

685
00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:20,920
Speaker 1: And I too, sometimes wish I wasn't like that, but

686
00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:22,600
Speaker 1: then I'm like, that's why I am who I am,

687
00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:25,760
Speaker 1: because I care enough to feel nerves and to feel

688
00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:28,680
Speaker 1: a little bit of imposter syndrome, but not so much

689
00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:31,280
Speaker 1: that it makes you not do the thing anyway. It's

690
00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:33,120
Speaker 1: just that you need to be able to acknowledge it

691
00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:35,200
Speaker 1: and push through and do it regardless.

692
00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:36,200
Speaker 3: And when you're nervous, so.

693
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:38,640
Speaker 2: I relate it to being on stage or being on camera,

694
00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:40,440
Speaker 2: and a lot of the camera work that I do

695
00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:43,240
Speaker 2: is live broadcast, so you don't get a chance to

696
00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:45,880
Speaker 2: cut and then start again if you stuff up, Like

697
00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:48,200
Speaker 2: if you forget a word on stage, mate, you better

698
00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:49,640
Speaker 2: think of another one really quick.

699
00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:52,480
Speaker 4: And I've done that plenty of times before and it

700
00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:54,360
Speaker 4: can't be fuck well.

701
00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:57,800
Speaker 2: I remember once actually, in a song recital in the conservatorium,

702
00:31:57,840 --> 00:32:00,440
Speaker 2: I had a set of French songs and point I

703
00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:02,520
Speaker 2: completely forgot all of the words and I was just

704
00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:07,800
Speaker 2: singing random vowels, like literally just like whatever came into

705
00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:09,760
Speaker 2: my head and it came off stage afterwards, and my

706
00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:14,440
Speaker 2: singing teacher was like, look, time was great, placement was great,

707
00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:17,560
Speaker 2: blah blah blah blah. Your French started like Swahili.

708
00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:23,160
Speaker 4: But I was happy overall, and I was okay, thank God.

709
00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:25,240
Speaker 4: But you can't stop in that situation.

710
00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:27,800
Speaker 2: And I think the point of you bringing that up

711
00:32:28,040 --> 00:32:33,280
Speaker 2: was is learning to harness nervousness for adrenaline in any facet,

712
00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:35,239
Speaker 2: whether or not it's standing up in front of your

713
00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:37,760
Speaker 2: work colleagues and speaking. If that's something that you find

714
00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:39,840
Speaker 2: nerve wracking. For me, it's being on stage or being

715
00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:43,200
Speaker 2: on camera. It's the nervousness shows that you care. And

716
00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:46,040
Speaker 2: learning how to harness that adrenaline for good rather than

717
00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:48,880
Speaker 2: learning it overcome you in the moment is definitely something

718
00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:52,200
Speaker 2: that my career has taught me. And again it's a

719
00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:54,840
Speaker 2: learning curve because every time you do put yourself out there,

720
00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:57,600
Speaker 2: it feels different. But that's what I love about this

721
00:32:57,720 --> 00:33:00,160
Speaker 2: job is no two days are the same and it's

722
00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:02,360
Speaker 2: done a great job yesterday, but I can still get

723
00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:05,160
Speaker 2: on stage or get on air and completely stuff it

724
00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:07,960
Speaker 2: up in front of everybody, And I love that thrill.

725
00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:10,640
Speaker 2: It doesn't scare me, it excites me. So I think

726
00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:12,880
Speaker 2: I'm in the right line of work for sure.

727
00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:15,440
Speaker 1: And such a healthy attitude towards it as well. I

728
00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:18,000
Speaker 1: think that's something I've learning to harness the self doubt

729
00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:21,200
Speaker 1: rather than be crippled by it is so incredibly important.

730
00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:23,480
Speaker 3: No one cares about you as you do.

731
00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:29,040
Speaker 1: Absolutely no one ever notices as much as you remember that,

732
00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:32,480
Speaker 1: and I think the other thing as well is harnessing

733
00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:35,960
Speaker 1: the perfectionism in a way that's useful rather than that

734
00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:38,960
Speaker 1: detracts from what you're doing. And I definitely think this

735
00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:41,080
Speaker 1: is relevant to the next topic. But one question I

736
00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:42,640
Speaker 1: want to ask you before we get into the meat

737
00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:47,600
Speaker 1: is about your decision to turn brunette, because I think

738
00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:51,239
Speaker 1: that also is something that shouldn't necessarily be as big

739
00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:53,520
Speaker 1: a thing as it sometimes is. But in an industry

740
00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:57,120
Speaker 1: where you're presenting your physically on camera and in photos

741
00:33:57,120 --> 00:34:00,840
Speaker 1: and stuff, was it a conscious decision? Is it something that,

742
00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:03,880
Speaker 1: like women in general, I think sometimes in a business

743
00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:08,040
Speaker 1: context feel not taken seriously if they present like in

744
00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:10,120
Speaker 1: a way that they care about their appearance, like I

745
00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:13,359
Speaker 1: found in business as a young woman, you often get underestimated.

746
00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:15,759
Speaker 1: Was there any of that as a factor or were

747
00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:18,520
Speaker 1: you just like I want to change, I'm naturally brunette.

748
00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:20,399
Speaker 1: It's less maintenance. Like where did that all come from?

749
00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:22,640
Speaker 1: And how did it did people change towards you?

750
00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:25,840
Speaker 2: You're gonna laugh because it was for a job. What

751
00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:29,840
Speaker 2: it was for a job, so typical erin will do

752
00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:32,040
Speaker 2: whatever it takes for the job. It was fashion week

753
00:34:32,080 --> 00:34:36,319
Speaker 2: in twenty eighteen and a color company approached me and said,

754
00:34:36,640 --> 00:34:37,799
Speaker 2: you want to dye your hair pink?

755
00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:38,200
Speaker 4: No way.

756
00:34:40,200 --> 00:34:42,680
Speaker 2: I don't know if I could make pink work, but

757
00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:45,120
Speaker 2: I'll go dark because I've been blowing my entire life.

758
00:34:45,160 --> 00:34:47,360
Speaker 2: So I'm naturally very very fair as well, Like this

759
00:34:47,560 --> 00:34:49,680
Speaker 2: is all every three weeks. I have to get my

760
00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:53,719
Speaker 2: roots done because I'm so naturally light. It's all manufactured,

761
00:34:54,200 --> 00:34:56,719
Speaker 2: the darkness. So I went dark for a job and

762
00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:00,960
Speaker 2: the response was, oh my god, gosh, I love you dark.

763
00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:03,759
Speaker 3: It brings out your eyes. I love this look on you.

764
00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:05,080
Speaker 3: Donnie and my style as he's like.

765
00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:07,200
Speaker 4: You're never going blond again, You're staying dark.

766
00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:10,400
Speaker 2: My hairdresser having ten God love you. He will not

767
00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:11,279
Speaker 2: tell me blond again.

768
00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:13,160
Speaker 3: He's like, no, no, I will do it.

769
00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:14,040
Speaker 2: I will not do it.

770
00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:14,879
Speaker 3: This is better.

771
00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:18,280
Speaker 2: And you know, I guess growing up as a performer,

772
00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:23,120
Speaker 2: I care about you know, again, this is a perfectionist

773
00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:23,320
Speaker 2: in me.

774
00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:26,720
Speaker 3: I like to, you know, be put together.

775
00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:29,760
Speaker 2: I like I feel like I've got my shit together

776
00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:32,799
Speaker 2: when I've got my face done, and you know, when

777
00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:33,640
Speaker 2: I get ready for work.

778
00:35:33,719 --> 00:35:35,600
Speaker 3: That was just part of, you know, being a performer.

779
00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:38,319
Speaker 2: You put your stage makeup on, you get your face ready,

780
00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:41,640
Speaker 2: and you get out into the world. And I guess

781
00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:45,080
Speaker 2: for that reason, I kind of don't I'm not really

782
00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:46,920
Speaker 2: attached to my look as such.

783
00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:50,120
Speaker 3: Like you know, long short hair, Like I don't care.

784
00:35:50,120 --> 00:35:51,880
Speaker 2: I could walk into the hairdresser tomorrow and he'll cut

785
00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:53,160
Speaker 2: it all off and it won't bother me.

786
00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:55,520
Speaker 3: I don't really have a connection to.

787
00:35:57,200 --> 00:35:59,480
Speaker 2: I suppose what you know, the color of my hair,

788
00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:02,560
Speaker 2: all the length of my hair or what I'm wearing or.

789
00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:03,160
Speaker 3: Whatever it is.

790
00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:05,840
Speaker 2: I sort of I trust the people who know what

791
00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:08,120
Speaker 2: they're doing. And I think that's been really useful for

792
00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:08,799
Speaker 2: me in this world.

793
00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:10,840
Speaker 3: Is you know, I have a manager and.

794
00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:13,800
Speaker 2: A publicist because that's what he's good at. It's not

795
00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:16,760
Speaker 2: what I'm good at. I have an amazing stylist on Igolola.

796
00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:19,000
Speaker 2: He tells me what to air all the time. He

797
00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:22,160
Speaker 2: is incredible, and I listened to him because he knows

798
00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:22,919
Speaker 2: what he's talking about.

799
00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:24,480
Speaker 4: And the same thing with my hairdresser.

800
00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:25,359
Speaker 3: I'm like great.

801
00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:29,040
Speaker 2: Like you know, I love surrounding myself with people who

802
00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:31,760
Speaker 2: know what they're talking about. And I know how to present,

803
00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:33,719
Speaker 2: and I know how to sing, and I know how

804
00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:36,360
Speaker 2: to do a good job. And I think staying in

805
00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:39,560
Speaker 2: my lane and then letting other people who have their lane,

806
00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:43,960
Speaker 2: I suppose influence my life has been really helpful for

807
00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:47,200
Speaker 2: me because I'm a really indecisive person. So I see

808
00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:52,359
Speaker 2: against myself so much and I think, yeah, I went

809
00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:55,920
Speaker 2: dark and I stayed dark because you know, the response

810
00:36:56,080 --> 00:36:58,080
Speaker 2: was great, and I ended up working in Asia a

811
00:36:58,120 --> 00:37:01,640
Speaker 2: lot more as a result. I think being blonde is

812
00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:05,719
Speaker 2: just too unattainable. I think being blonde and working in

813
00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:09,640
Speaker 2: India and Pakistan and Bangladesh and Nepal and the places

814
00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:13,359
Speaker 2: that I have worked, blonde hair is amazing, but it's

815
00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:18,040
Speaker 2: not relatable, whereas being white, but having dark hair in

816
00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:20,640
Speaker 2: an Asian country, you're still I think you're still that

817
00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:22,680
Speaker 2: little bit more relatable than if I was white with

818
00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:26,760
Speaker 2: blonde hair and working on their TV channels and absorbing

819
00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:30,080
Speaker 2: in their culture. And I do think that it's worked

820
00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:32,399
Speaker 2: better for working in some of the countries that I've

821
00:37:32,480 --> 00:37:36,640
Speaker 2: worked in, and I love absorbing myself in the culture.

822
00:37:36,680 --> 00:37:38,760
Speaker 2: And you know, when I work in India and Pakistan

823
00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:41,800
Speaker 2: and these places, I love wearing the local clothes, I

824
00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:43,239
Speaker 2: love eating the local food.

825
00:37:43,320 --> 00:37:46,920
Speaker 3: I love like I want to absorb the world around me.

826
00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:51,080
Speaker 5: And I think being the bright pageant blonde hair that

827
00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:54,680
Speaker 5: I was, without even really giving it too much thought,

828
00:37:54,760 --> 00:37:58,879
Speaker 5: I've just I've slid into life as a brunette, which is, yeah,

829
00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:01,480
Speaker 5: sort of worked for these these industries that I work

830
00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:03,399
Speaker 5: in and these countries that I work in a little

831
00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:03,719
Speaker 5: bit more.

832
00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:04,040
Speaker 3: I don't.

833
00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:08,000
Speaker 2: Sometimes my clients have told me that's the case as well. Yeah,

834
00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:09,759
Speaker 2: like I think blonde would have just been a little

835
00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:12,439
Speaker 2: bit too different. You know, we want people to warm

836
00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:15,120
Speaker 2: to you, and I think, yeah, working in some of

837
00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:17,359
Speaker 2: the places that I've worked, it's been, Yeah, it's been.

838
00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:20,480
Speaker 1: It's been a good thing, so fascinating, and I love

839
00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:24,480
Speaker 1: watching you doing presenting work in traditional local dress and

840
00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:28,440
Speaker 1: doing dancers with your fellow hosts. It's just it's amazing

841
00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:30,400
Speaker 1: to see. I think that's something amazed. There's so much

842
00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:31,719
Speaker 1: I want to talk to you about, and I'm like, god, like,

843
00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:34,400
Speaker 1: I know, get what could do for hours?

844
00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:36,359
Speaker 3: Sorry, that was really long winded, all of that stuff.

845
00:38:36,360 --> 00:38:38,120
Speaker 3: I don't know if that's that's relevant.

846
00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:40,040
Speaker 2: But yeah, I think I think in terms of dying

847
00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:41,960
Speaker 2: my hair, it was for a job and it's just

848
00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:44,960
Speaker 2: stayed that way because I've enjoyed playing another character for

849
00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:48,399
Speaker 2: a while, being a brunette and as a performer. Yeah,

850
00:38:48,480 --> 00:38:51,560
Speaker 2: you sort of used to putting on, putting on a

851
00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:53,520
Speaker 2: face for work or a week for work.

852
00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:56,480
Speaker 3: Or whatever it is, and I'm just brunette erin for

853
00:38:56,600 --> 00:38:59,000
Speaker 3: now and I'm loving that. I maybe I'll go.

854
00:38:59,040 --> 00:39:01,600
Speaker 2: Red one day, probably go about people knows, because the

855
00:39:01,680 --> 00:39:03,399
Speaker 2: maintenance is play too much.

856
00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:06,000
Speaker 3: Every three weeks I'm getting my rates done. I'm sorry.

857
00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:08,920
Speaker 1: You're like the opposite of most people. It's so interesting.

858
00:39:09,600 --> 00:39:12,000
Speaker 1: You're like a packet brunette. I didn't even know a word.

859
00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:14,479
Speaker 3: I'm so I'm so naturally fair.

860
00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:15,360
Speaker 4: It's crazy, but.

861
00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:19,720
Speaker 3: You know, I again, I'm a sucker for feedback.

862
00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:21,680
Speaker 2: People like the brunette hair, and I think people know

863
00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:24,279
Speaker 2: more than me about most things, so I'm going.

864
00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:29,440
Speaker 4: To be brute lovely neighborhood.

865
00:39:29,560 --> 00:39:32,040
Speaker 1: It isn't used to anyone that episode one or two

866
00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:35,320
Speaker 1: with Doctor Richard Harris is possibly my personal favorite episode

867
00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:39,080
Speaker 1: of all time. One of my ultimate messages here is

868
00:39:39,120 --> 00:39:42,080
Speaker 1: that it doesn't matter how unusual or unique your personal

869
00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:45,000
Speaker 1: combination of yay is. Someone out there is looking for

870
00:39:45,239 --> 00:39:48,839
Speaker 1: exactly that, and nobody could ever have known that an

871
00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:51,480
Speaker 1: anethetist cave diver was the key to one of the

872
00:39:51,640 --> 00:39:55,400
Speaker 1: hardest rescue missions of our time. They say you remember

873
00:39:55,640 --> 00:39:57,880
Speaker 1: exactly where you were the moment you heard about a

874
00:39:57,960 --> 00:40:00,719
Speaker 1: disaster like thirteen young boys getting stuck in a cave

875
00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:04,680
Speaker 1: almost impossible to reach for eighteen days. It may just

876
00:40:04,760 --> 00:40:06,719
Speaker 1: be me, but I feel like the details of just

877
00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:09,880
Speaker 1: how impossible the rescue was went over my head at

878
00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:12,600
Speaker 1: the time, and I never really grasped that they may

879
00:40:12,680 --> 00:40:15,800
Speaker 1: not survive. So what I do remember was the moment

880
00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:18,320
Speaker 1: two years later when I realized the dive just to

881
00:40:18,440 --> 00:40:20,440
Speaker 1: reach them was so hard it took the life of

882
00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:23,840
Speaker 1: a Navy seal and could take eleven hours return that

883
00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:26,600
Speaker 1: it was through coffee colored water in tunnels so narrow

884
00:40:26,719 --> 00:40:29,479
Speaker 1: it touched both their chest and back at the same time,

885
00:40:30,239 --> 00:40:32,680
Speaker 1: that the boys had to be sedated to prevent panic

886
00:40:32,760 --> 00:40:35,239
Speaker 1: in the multi hour dive, and restrained to stop their

887
00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:38,000
Speaker 1: limbs getting cut off by jagged rocks, and that even

888
00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:40,440
Speaker 1: the divers themselves weren't sure they'd come out at the

889
00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:43,880
Speaker 1: other end until hours later when they did. These and

890
00:40:44,120 --> 00:40:46,839
Speaker 1: so many other details of this impossible feat still give

891
00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:49,759
Speaker 1: me goosebumps. It's one of my favorite stories to hear

892
00:40:49,960 --> 00:40:53,160
Speaker 1: over and over again. And now you can watch the

893
00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:56,239
Speaker 1: mission unravel in the incredible new film based on the

894
00:40:56,280 --> 00:41:00,160
Speaker 1: true story, Thirteen Lives on Prime Video, directed by Ron

895
00:41:00,280 --> 00:41:03,440
Speaker 1: Howard and starring the likes of Joel Edgerton and Colin Farrell.

896
00:41:03,840 --> 00:41:07,880
Speaker 1: You'll get goosebumps, spine tingles, tiers of despair, and tiers

897
00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:11,120
Speaker 1: of hope. It is streaming from August fifth, so it's

898
00:41:11,200 --> 00:41:19,439
Speaker 1: out and no out. Do not miss out. Oh my gosh,

899
00:41:19,520 --> 00:41:22,040
Speaker 1: you have such a fascinating story. I would love to

900
00:41:22,120 --> 00:41:25,680
Speaker 1: talk more about working in Pakistan and India and long distance.

901
00:41:25,719 --> 00:41:27,440
Speaker 1: I feel like we need to do multi parts to

902
00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:32,640
Speaker 1: this episode, but like, well, but I think while I've

903
00:41:32,680 --> 00:41:36,000
Speaker 1: got you for this first episode. I think one thing

904
00:41:36,120 --> 00:41:39,560
Speaker 1: that has been quite recent for you that is current

905
00:41:39,680 --> 00:41:43,440
Speaker 1: for me as well, that is still not openly spoken

906
00:41:43,480 --> 00:41:46,960
Speaker 1: about enough, but that you have been incredibly, incredibly honest

907
00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:49,920
Speaker 1: and raw about in a way that I think has

908
00:41:49,960 --> 00:41:53,680
Speaker 1: given so many people comfort education, Like, I just still

909
00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:55,800
Speaker 1: can't believe how little I know about my own body.

910
00:41:56,400 --> 00:41:59,040
Speaker 1: So I would love to get into this section now

911
00:41:59,040 --> 00:42:01,000
Speaker 1: while I have you, and that's to just talk about

912
00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:04,560
Speaker 1: the fertility journey, which is something that as perfectionists, you

913
00:42:04,640 --> 00:42:07,280
Speaker 1: sort of say, like, this is my timeline, my body

914
00:42:07,320 --> 00:42:10,520
Speaker 1: will fit into how I want this to work, and

915
00:42:11,160 --> 00:42:14,800
Speaker 1: unfortunately and rudely, that is not how nature actually operates.

916
00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:18,360
Speaker 1: So can you tell us, as much as you are

917
00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:22,480
Speaker 1: comfortable with how it has unraveled for you, how you

918
00:42:22,840 --> 00:42:26,800
Speaker 1: started the process, what your timeline originally? Was The biggest

919
00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:29,400
Speaker 1: question I've had is what tests you actually did and

920
00:42:29,560 --> 00:42:32,160
Speaker 1: then you know what the journey's been.

921
00:42:32,200 --> 00:42:35,000
Speaker 2: Like, Yeah, I mean mine's only really just beginning, and

922
00:42:35,040 --> 00:42:37,720
Speaker 2: I could still talk to you for another hour about

923
00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:40,400
Speaker 2: how it's all sort of panned out for me so far.

924
00:42:40,600 --> 00:42:43,879
Speaker 2: But I did Essays Australia last year and as part

925
00:42:43,960 --> 00:42:45,719
Speaker 2: of the show, you do a lot of medicals.

926
00:42:46,040 --> 00:42:49,799
Speaker 3: You do psychological assessments, you do physical assessments.

927
00:42:49,280 --> 00:42:53,040
Speaker 2: And around the time of getting these tests done in

928
00:42:53,160 --> 00:42:55,319
Speaker 2: order to be allowed on the show, I was talking

929
00:42:55,320 --> 00:42:56,920
Speaker 2: to my friends. A lot of my friends now are

930
00:42:56,920 --> 00:43:00,640
Speaker 2: starting to have children, and of various degrees of success. Obviously,

931
00:43:00,840 --> 00:43:04,000
Speaker 2: now as I'm learning more and more, there is no

932
00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:08,319
Speaker 2: straight line to a successful pregnancy and a successful birth.

933
00:43:08,760 --> 00:43:11,879
Speaker 2: There is so much that can happen and so much

934
00:43:11,960 --> 00:43:14,880
Speaker 2: that takes for it to even to even get pregnant.

935
00:43:14,920 --> 00:43:18,440
Speaker 2: But being around so many of my friends going through it,

936
00:43:18,920 --> 00:43:22,200
Speaker 2: so many had said because I'm very career focused, I'm

937
00:43:22,320 --> 00:43:25,440
Speaker 2: very career orientated, I still think I'm twenty five in

938
00:43:25,719 --> 00:43:26,080
Speaker 2: the head.

939
00:43:26,120 --> 00:43:26,840
Speaker 3: I'm obviously not.

940
00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:29,280
Speaker 2: I'm thirty three years old now, but in my brain

941
00:43:29,920 --> 00:43:32,560
Speaker 2: I sort of I wasn't really there yet. My husband,

942
00:43:32,600 --> 00:43:34,880
Speaker 2: on the other hand, is so clucky. He's like, give me,

943
00:43:34,920 --> 00:43:37,400
Speaker 2: give me, give me babies. But for me, I just

944
00:43:37,960 --> 00:43:40,200
Speaker 2: wasn't really there yet. We have a long distance relationship

945
00:43:40,239 --> 00:43:42,880
Speaker 2: as well. He's based in Brisbane and oversee I'm in Sydney.

946
00:43:43,080 --> 00:43:45,359
Speaker 2: A lot of factors for why the time wasn't right

947
00:43:45,480 --> 00:43:49,359
Speaker 2: right now. But I came off the pill after doing

948
00:43:49,960 --> 00:43:53,640
Speaker 2: SAS Back in May last year, and before I got

949
00:43:53,680 --> 00:43:55,319
Speaker 2: on the show and was doing my medicals, I did

950
00:43:55,400 --> 00:43:58,080
Speaker 2: a simple AMH test. My friends had said, just get

951
00:43:58,120 --> 00:44:00,960
Speaker 2: the blood test, like it's really easy, and my doctor

952
00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:02,879
Speaker 2: at the time kind of fought me on it and said, yeah,

953
00:44:02,920 --> 00:44:05,160
Speaker 2: but it doesn't mean anything, and I don't want you

954
00:44:05,200 --> 00:44:07,399
Speaker 2: to freak out because it might come back a certain

955
00:44:07,440 --> 00:44:11,120
Speaker 2: way because quantity does not equal quality, which is something

956
00:44:11,160 --> 00:44:13,439
Speaker 2: that became very apparent for me later on down the track.

957
00:44:13,960 --> 00:44:15,799
Speaker 2: Don't read too much into it. I'll do it if

958
00:44:15,840 --> 00:44:19,120
Speaker 2: you want, but okay, it's like all right, fine, well

959
00:44:19,520 --> 00:44:22,120
Speaker 2: eighty bucks, I'll do it anyway. I did the test,

960
00:44:22,320 --> 00:44:25,120
Speaker 2: and my test came back at the very low end

961
00:44:25,239 --> 00:44:28,480
Speaker 2: of normal or high end of poor, as Ben Blacks

962
00:44:28,560 --> 00:44:28,920
Speaker 2: to tell me.

963
00:44:29,200 --> 00:44:32,400
Speaker 4: So he's like, you need to get on this asap.

964
00:44:32,600 --> 00:44:33,680
Speaker 4: It's the high end of poor.

965
00:44:33,719 --> 00:44:35,200
Speaker 3: I'm like, it's the low end of normal.

966
00:44:35,800 --> 00:44:40,640
Speaker 2: Yeass half empty. But I went okay, and the information

967
00:44:40,840 --> 00:44:42,879
Speaker 2: wasn't surprising to me. I've been on the pill since

968
00:44:42,880 --> 00:44:45,279
Speaker 2: I was sixteen years old. Not great at the whole

969
00:44:45,360 --> 00:44:48,600
Speaker 2: one per day thing. Absolute scatter brain. Never ever had

970
00:44:49,719 --> 00:44:52,800
Speaker 2: a remote whoopsie or a late period or because I

971
00:44:52,920 --> 00:44:54,279
Speaker 2: never had a period. I was on the pill for

972
00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:56,560
Speaker 2: such a long time, and I've been an emic off

973
00:44:56,600 --> 00:44:58,520
Speaker 2: and on when I was a bit younger. So my

974
00:44:58,640 --> 00:45:01,239
Speaker 2: doctor also said, don't even worry about having the withdraw bleed.

975
00:45:01,719 --> 00:45:04,239
Speaker 2: Just keep going on the active pills because it's not

976
00:45:04,320 --> 00:45:07,279
Speaker 2: an actual period anyway, you didn't ovulate, Okay, cool. So

977
00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:09,839
Speaker 2: I did that for sixteen years. I finally came off

978
00:45:09,920 --> 00:45:14,120
Speaker 2: the pill after says because I thought.

979
00:45:13,920 --> 00:45:17,880
Speaker 3: Well, you know, we're married now. If it happens, it happens.

980
00:45:19,160 --> 00:45:21,759
Speaker 2: Let's you know, let's just sort of see I've been

981
00:45:21,800 --> 00:45:23,200
Speaker 2: in the pill for a really long time. And so

982
00:45:23,320 --> 00:45:25,719
Speaker 2: many of my friends had also said it might take

983
00:45:26,000 --> 00:45:28,279
Speaker 2: a long time for you to get your cycle back,

984
00:45:28,320 --> 00:45:30,160
Speaker 2: which is something that everyone kind of says as well.

985
00:45:30,320 --> 00:45:33,080
Speaker 2: So I came off the pill and I just didn't

986
00:45:33,120 --> 00:45:37,160
Speaker 2: get a period for months, and I like, okay, and

987
00:45:37,239 --> 00:45:39,160
Speaker 2: everyone goes, oh, you know, just give it a bit longer.

988
00:45:39,239 --> 00:45:39,839
Speaker 3: It can take time.

989
00:45:39,920 --> 00:45:40,080
Speaker 2: Hard.

990
00:45:40,120 --> 00:45:40,759
Speaker 3: It took me a year.

991
00:45:40,840 --> 00:45:42,960
Speaker 2: Oh it took me two years. You know, all the

992
00:45:43,040 --> 00:45:45,960
Speaker 2: things that you hear from other friends and family when

993
00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:48,520
Speaker 2: you chat to them about it, and one thing about

994
00:45:48,560 --> 00:45:50,359
Speaker 2: me too, which I think has served me really well.

995
00:45:50,440 --> 00:45:52,719
Speaker 2: And why I decided to speak about this is I

996
00:45:52,840 --> 00:45:56,560
Speaker 2: am a really open person, and I came from a

997
00:45:56,640 --> 00:46:00,800
Speaker 2: family that were necessarily super open with their emotions and

998
00:46:01,200 --> 00:46:04,400
Speaker 2: what they were feeling. But for me, being open and

999
00:46:04,560 --> 00:46:08,319
Speaker 2: being very vocal has helped me cope. And and I'm

1000
00:46:08,320 --> 00:46:10,279
Speaker 2: also someone who if you look me in the eyes

1001
00:46:10,320 --> 00:46:13,400
Speaker 2: and say are you okay, I can't lie. So when

1002
00:46:13,440 --> 00:46:15,880
Speaker 2: I started going through everything that I'm about to touch on,

1003
00:46:16,440 --> 00:46:19,640
Speaker 2: for me, it actually was it's cathartic and it's therapeutic

1004
00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:21,720
Speaker 2: for me as well as the fact that it seems

1005
00:46:21,719 --> 00:46:24,080
Speaker 2: to be for other people. So so sharing is as

1006
00:46:24,160 --> 00:46:27,080
Speaker 2: much for me as it is for for everyone else

1007
00:46:27,120 --> 00:46:28,840
Speaker 2: that ed it does. It does really help me. But

1008
00:46:29,480 --> 00:46:31,880
Speaker 2: so I didn't get my period back. It got to

1009
00:46:32,200 --> 00:46:37,680
Speaker 2: November of last year and Ben, my husband again, he's like, right, okay,

1010
00:46:37,800 --> 00:46:40,640
Speaker 2: low end DePaul, we need to like go on, is like,

1011
00:46:41,120 --> 00:46:43,920
Speaker 2: and I'm like, babe, babe, Like I don't think I'm

1012
00:46:43,960 --> 00:46:46,160
Speaker 2: there yet, Like this is this would work? He goes, no, no, no,

1013
00:46:46,280 --> 00:46:48,040
Speaker 2: but like if you don't have a lot of eggs,

1014
00:46:48,080 --> 00:46:49,239
Speaker 2: like we've got to We've got to put him in

1015
00:46:49,239 --> 00:46:49,640
Speaker 2: the freezer.

1016
00:46:49,680 --> 00:46:51,040
Speaker 3: We've got to put him in the ice trail a lot.

1017
00:46:51,120 --> 00:46:53,319
Speaker 4: Let's get it ready to go, Like he makes a room.

1018
00:46:55,520 --> 00:46:58,560
Speaker 2: Literally, he's he's so, And he asked around all of

1019
00:46:58,600 --> 00:46:59,960
Speaker 2: our friends up in Brucebee.

1020
00:47:00,120 --> 00:47:02,920
Speaker 3: He found a doctor who came very highly recommended. He

1021
00:47:03,080 --> 00:47:05,160
Speaker 3: booked us in to go and have a consult. He

1022
00:47:05,280 --> 00:47:09,400
Speaker 3: did everything going, I'll get around to it. It's fine.

1023
00:47:09,680 --> 00:47:12,680
Speaker 2: So he's very proactive, is my darling husband. And we

1024
00:47:12,840 --> 00:47:15,680
Speaker 2: go in to see this fertility doctor together. I'm like, hey,

1025
00:47:16,760 --> 00:47:19,400
Speaker 2: x y zed, I have a low AMH. It was

1026
00:47:19,400 --> 00:47:22,360
Speaker 2: a six point four on this first reading, which is

1027
00:47:22,560 --> 00:47:23,200
Speaker 2: a low end.

1028
00:47:23,120 --> 00:47:24,680
Speaker 3: Of normal number.

1029
00:47:24,719 --> 00:47:28,520
Speaker 2: As I mentioned before, and basically, as we know, we

1030
00:47:28,640 --> 00:47:30,359
Speaker 2: start with a certain amount of X when we're born

1031
00:47:30,840 --> 00:47:31,480
Speaker 2: where we don't know.

1032
00:47:31,560 --> 00:47:34,680
Speaker 3: That's something that I'm learning is people's information.

1033
00:47:34,360 --> 00:47:35,680
Speaker 4: On this is fast.

1034
00:47:36,000 --> 00:47:38,919
Speaker 1: Don't assume most people don't know anything about their body.

1035
00:47:39,600 --> 00:47:42,520
Speaker 2: Born with a certain number of eggs and that decreases

1036
00:47:43,239 --> 00:47:46,800
Speaker 2: until we hit metopause. So on the scale, I was

1037
00:47:46,880 --> 00:47:49,640
Speaker 2: very much down towards the bottom. And so he's talking

1038
00:47:49,680 --> 00:47:51,359
Speaker 2: to us, the doctor's talking to us. He's like, great,

1039
00:47:51,440 --> 00:47:53,800
Speaker 2: Like we'll just do some tests. We'll do some genetic tests.

1040
00:47:53,880 --> 00:47:57,600
Speaker 2: We'll see you know, there's many, many things that you

1041
00:47:57,680 --> 00:48:01,239
Speaker 2: know come into play when it comes to fertility. Let's

1042
00:48:01,280 --> 00:48:03,600
Speaker 2: just do all the blood tests, and oh, let's do

1043
00:48:03,800 --> 00:48:06,120
Speaker 2: a pelvic ultrasound as well, because we'll just check that,

1044
00:48:06,640 --> 00:48:09,040
Speaker 2: you know, you've got all the right tubes and ovaries

1045
00:48:09,120 --> 00:48:11,440
Speaker 2: and what your uterus looks like, yadda yady. So it

1046
00:48:11,480 --> 00:48:13,279
Speaker 2: does the internal so fun.

1047
00:48:13,760 --> 00:48:15,880
Speaker 1: Just for everyone listening, if you have listened to the

1048
00:48:15,920 --> 00:48:17,719
Speaker 1: episode a couple of weeks ago, you'll know that this

1049
00:48:17,920 --> 00:48:20,440
Speaker 1: is the exact stage that I am at right now.

1050
00:48:20,560 --> 00:48:22,960
Speaker 1: So the AMH test is the blood test that measures

1051
00:48:23,000 --> 00:48:25,359
Speaker 1: how many eggs you have, and then if you get

1052
00:48:25,360 --> 00:48:28,800
Speaker 1: a certain remember not the quality, just the quantity. And

1053
00:48:28,880 --> 00:48:32,120
Speaker 1: then the pelvic ultrasound is kind of what completes that picture.

1054
00:48:32,200 --> 00:48:35,600
Speaker 1: So where parallel is happening at this point.

1055
00:48:36,680 --> 00:48:37,920
Speaker 4: So he gets up in there.

1056
00:48:38,040 --> 00:48:42,279
Speaker 2: They're so fun, so fun, love an internal ultrasound and

1057
00:48:42,440 --> 00:48:45,920
Speaker 2: he goes, h oh, it's not a good sign. What

1058
00:48:46,320 --> 00:48:49,360
Speaker 2: he goes, well, you've got a lot of eggs. And

1059
00:48:49,440 --> 00:48:51,359
Speaker 2: I was like, huh, I thought I had no eggs.

1060
00:48:51,400 --> 00:48:54,080
Speaker 2: And he goes, yeah, look and he, you know, moves

1061
00:48:54,160 --> 00:48:57,080
Speaker 2: the lovely contracture of the one side and it looks

1062
00:48:57,120 --> 00:48:57,839
Speaker 2: like honeycomb.

1063
00:48:58,120 --> 00:49:00,920
Speaker 4: Did you see all the little circles, The little circles, He.

1064
00:49:00,960 --> 00:49:05,280
Speaker 2: Goes this honeycomb, They're all follow calls and I'm like, okay,

1065
00:49:05,600 --> 00:49:08,239
Speaker 2: he goes, We'll go to the other side. So rap

1066
00:49:08,360 --> 00:49:10,520
Speaker 2: away to the other side. He goes, and that side

1067
00:49:10,600 --> 00:49:12,960
Speaker 2: has even more and I was like, what he goes,

1068
00:49:13,160 --> 00:49:17,040
Speaker 2: You've got thirty five plus the average woman has around

1069
00:49:17,080 --> 00:49:20,359
Speaker 2: six to ten. Apparently during a cycle, I had thirty five.

1070
00:49:20,760 --> 00:49:21,520
Speaker 3: He's like, this.

1071
00:49:21,600 --> 00:49:24,120
Speaker 2: Doesn't make sense to me based on your AMH.

1072
00:49:23,840 --> 00:49:24,719
Speaker 3: Which was very low.

1073
00:49:25,480 --> 00:49:28,640
Speaker 2: Let's repeat the test plus another whole bunch of tests

1074
00:49:28,680 --> 00:49:32,120
Speaker 2: which will tested for genetic disorders and other fun things.

1075
00:49:32,239 --> 00:49:34,440
Speaker 2: Will test bend, will test bend sperm, We'll see what

1076
00:49:34,560 --> 00:49:36,839
Speaker 2: he's like, and we'll reconvene.

1077
00:49:37,120 --> 00:49:38,400
Speaker 3: So they've done these tests.

1078
00:49:38,480 --> 00:49:40,479
Speaker 2: They did a blood test, that they did a sperm test,

1079
00:49:41,280 --> 00:49:44,080
Speaker 2: They did the AMAH again on me, and of course

1080
00:49:44,160 --> 00:49:45,080
Speaker 2: I ended up going.

1081
00:49:44,960 --> 00:49:48,640
Speaker 3: Overseas for work. So when we got these results, I

1082
00:49:48,960 --> 00:49:49,120
Speaker 3: was on.

1083
00:49:50,640 --> 00:49:52,880
Speaker 2: Wasn't even a zoom call because they're banned in the UAE,

1084
00:49:53,160 --> 00:49:55,520
Speaker 2: but it was Yeah, no video calls in the UAE,

1085
00:49:56,080 --> 00:49:56,799
Speaker 2: but I.

1086
00:49:56,880 --> 00:49:58,920
Speaker 4: Spent hundreds of dollars calling.

1087
00:49:59,080 --> 00:50:02,600
Speaker 2: Australia to get the results of these tests, and it

1088
00:50:02,680 --> 00:50:06,239
Speaker 2: came back that I actually had an incredibly high AMH

1089
00:50:06,440 --> 00:50:09,480
Speaker 2: of thirty four point four. I think it was at

1090
00:50:09,520 --> 00:50:12,480
Speaker 2: the time, completely other end of the spectrum, and I

1091
00:50:12,520 --> 00:50:16,239
Speaker 2: actually had something called PCO. It's not PCs, which is

1092
00:50:17,239 --> 00:50:21,520
Speaker 2: polycystic ovarian syndrome. I just have polycystic ovaries or multi

1093
00:50:21,560 --> 00:50:24,600
Speaker 2: systic ovaries as it's called. And basically, I have so

1094
00:50:24,880 --> 00:50:28,400
Speaker 2: many eggs during my cycle that my brain never ever

1095
00:50:28,520 --> 00:50:31,360
Speaker 2: gets the que to ovulate. And if you don't ovulate,

1096
00:50:31,840 --> 00:50:35,040
Speaker 2: then you don't have an egg released from your ovary,

1097
00:50:35,440 --> 00:50:38,640
Speaker 2: and the space that egg has left is what usually

1098
00:50:38,800 --> 00:50:41,839
Speaker 2: cues the brain to cue the uterus to shed its

1099
00:50:41,880 --> 00:50:45,759
Speaker 2: learning and have a period. So I just didn't ovulate ever.

1100
00:50:46,200 --> 00:50:48,279
Speaker 2: And he said, look, it's really hard to tell. I

1101
00:50:48,360 --> 00:50:51,240
Speaker 2: can't see any evidence of you having had a cycle.

1102
00:50:51,680 --> 00:50:53,520
Speaker 2: With the number of eggs you have, you might only

1103
00:50:53,600 --> 00:50:55,200
Speaker 2: have a period once or twice a year.

1104
00:50:57,160 --> 00:50:57,920
Speaker 3: For someone like you.

1105
00:50:58,200 --> 00:51:01,520
Speaker 2: I would suggest IVF because I can make you ovulate,

1106
00:51:01,640 --> 00:51:03,600
Speaker 2: but it's a lot of drugs and it's very hard

1107
00:51:03,640 --> 00:51:05,920
Speaker 2: on your body to only have a small percentage of

1108
00:51:06,000 --> 00:51:09,880
Speaker 2: a chance each cycle that a woman has when she

1109
00:51:10,560 --> 00:51:12,800
Speaker 2: is trying to fell pregnant, which as I've learned, is

1110
00:51:12,920 --> 00:51:17,400
Speaker 2: very low anyway, or if you're going to put yourself

1111
00:51:17,440 --> 00:51:20,600
Speaker 2: through your body through that amount of hormones, you've got

1112
00:51:20,600 --> 00:51:24,320
Speaker 2: a much better success rate of IBF. I think that

1113
00:51:24,560 --> 00:51:26,400
Speaker 2: is what is going to have to happen for you.

1114
00:51:27,080 --> 00:51:33,920
Speaker 2: And I remember just completely breaking down overseas, like I

1115
00:51:34,040 --> 00:51:35,920
Speaker 2: put the phone on mute and I just kind of

1116
00:51:36,080 --> 00:51:38,239
Speaker 2: bore my eyes out. And it shocked me because as

1117
00:51:38,280 --> 00:51:43,000
Speaker 2: someone who wasn't wanting to get pregnant tomorrow or really

1118
00:51:43,120 --> 00:51:45,520
Speaker 2: even getting the head around it was just going, yeah, okay, great,

1119
00:51:45,640 --> 00:51:49,600
Speaker 2: let's you know, bank some things in the freezer, ready

1120
00:51:49,640 --> 00:51:50,759
Speaker 2: to go when the time is right.

1121
00:51:50,840 --> 00:51:52,640
Speaker 3: It shocked me at the sense.

1122
00:51:52,440 --> 00:51:56,359
Speaker 2: Of devastation I felt at the lack of this ever

1123
00:51:56,520 --> 00:51:59,000
Speaker 2: being a normal process. Like all of a sudden, I

1124
00:51:59,080 --> 00:52:01,920
Speaker 2: was thineking, Wow, I'm never going to get excited and

1125
00:52:02,000 --> 00:52:05,480
Speaker 2: do a pregnancy test and you know, oh surprise, were pregnant.

1126
00:52:05,520 --> 00:52:10,080
Speaker 2: Like I'm it's always going to be clinical and organized

1127
00:52:10,160 --> 00:52:13,680
Speaker 2: and very very very expensive and very hard on my body.

1128
00:52:13,800 --> 00:52:17,640
Speaker 2: And it's just just the loss of any normality around

1129
00:52:17,640 --> 00:52:20,160
Speaker 2: the process really hit me really hard. And then it

1130
00:52:20,239 --> 00:52:22,399
Speaker 2: turned out that I had another couple of issues as well.

1131
00:52:22,480 --> 00:52:25,920
Speaker 2: I carry a couple of genetic little nasties, which I'm

1132
00:52:25,960 --> 00:52:27,160
Speaker 2: not at the end of the world, like some of

1133
00:52:27,239 --> 00:52:30,080
Speaker 2: them can be treated with folic acid. There's a few

1134
00:52:30,120 --> 00:52:34,839
Speaker 2: things that can be done. But luckily Ben was all

1135
00:52:34,920 --> 00:52:37,200
Speaker 2: good to go and great, so very thankful that it's

1136
00:52:37,239 --> 00:52:40,520
Speaker 2: only one of us that has infertility issues. I can't

1137
00:52:40,520 --> 00:52:43,400
Speaker 2: imagine for couples who have both sides have issues. It

1138
00:52:43,480 --> 00:52:47,960
Speaker 2: becomes obviously incredibly difficult to conceive the more issues you

1139
00:52:48,040 --> 00:52:48,759
Speaker 2: have to contend with.

1140
00:52:48,960 --> 00:52:52,120
Speaker 3: But I felt shit, I felt broken.

1141
00:52:52,320 --> 00:52:56,320
Speaker 2: I felt as a perfectionist, like when your body fails you,

1142
00:52:56,719 --> 00:52:57,880
Speaker 2: like physically fails you.

1143
00:52:58,000 --> 00:53:01,800
Speaker 3: It's so personal, like wow, the one thing you're supposed

1144
00:53:01,840 --> 00:53:02,600
Speaker 3: to be able to do.

1145
00:53:02,920 --> 00:53:04,919
Speaker 2: And don't get me wrong, like I don't think women

1146
00:53:04,960 --> 00:53:07,480
Speaker 2: will put on this earth to breed, like we are

1147
00:53:07,560 --> 00:53:09,560
Speaker 2: so much more than the fact that we reproduce. But

1148
00:53:10,160 --> 00:53:11,440
Speaker 2: that primal feeling of.

1149
00:53:11,520 --> 00:53:15,480
Speaker 3: Like, yeah, you can't even do this, like really, like

1150
00:53:16,320 --> 00:53:17,480
Speaker 3: what do you mean you can't do this?

1151
00:53:17,680 --> 00:53:20,840
Speaker 2: It was a lot, and I think the confusion of

1152
00:53:21,680 --> 00:53:23,879
Speaker 2: not feeling like I was even close to being ready,

1153
00:53:23,920 --> 00:53:26,600
Speaker 2: but then being so upset and so devastated about It

1154
00:53:26,840 --> 00:53:30,839
Speaker 2: was really hard to get my head around and sit

1155
00:53:30,960 --> 00:53:33,200
Speaker 2: in those feelings and not even understand why I was

1156
00:53:33,239 --> 00:53:36,359
Speaker 2: feeling the way I was feeling. And then I don't

1157
00:53:36,400 --> 00:53:38,520
Speaker 2: know about you, but I went down that path of like,

1158
00:53:39,000 --> 00:53:41,160
Speaker 2: is this the universe saying that you're not meant to

1159
00:53:41,200 --> 00:53:43,239
Speaker 2: be your mother? Like you?

1160
00:53:43,719 --> 00:53:44,760
Speaker 3: Is this even your path?

1161
00:53:44,840 --> 00:53:47,239
Speaker 2: But then you know, the rational side of my brain,

1162
00:53:47,320 --> 00:53:49,440
Speaker 2: we're kicking and I go no, Like, I know so

1163
00:53:49,600 --> 00:53:52,800
Speaker 2: many amazing women in my life who've had infertility issues

1164
00:53:52,840 --> 00:53:55,120
Speaker 2: and they are the best mothers in the world. They

1165
00:53:55,160 --> 00:53:57,480
Speaker 2: were meant to be mothers. But when it's yourself, you

1166
00:53:57,640 --> 00:54:01,600
Speaker 2: just can't get that perspective. It's it's just it's a lot.

1167
00:54:01,920 --> 00:54:04,000
Speaker 2: And I think it's been my tagline the entire way

1168
00:54:04,080 --> 00:54:06,879
Speaker 2: through it is like this whole process is a lot

1169
00:54:07,040 --> 00:54:09,920
Speaker 2: to get your head around. And from there, you know,

1170
00:54:10,080 --> 00:54:15,200
Speaker 2: we've now done two rounds of a collection and Embrewers

1171
00:54:16,040 --> 00:54:19,560
Speaker 2: first round ended up in nothing, and that really hit

1172
00:54:19,640 --> 00:54:22,680
Speaker 2: me for six again, like I felt like putting my

1173
00:54:22,760 --> 00:54:25,800
Speaker 2: body through all of that, the huge exorbitant cost of it,

1174
00:54:26,600 --> 00:54:29,399
Speaker 2: and even with a Medicare rebate, which I'm lucky enough

1175
00:54:29,440 --> 00:54:33,000
Speaker 2: to be, you know, have access to being in Australia

1176
00:54:33,200 --> 00:54:35,960
Speaker 2: and having someone who who has issues, I can get

1177
00:54:36,400 --> 00:54:39,720
Speaker 2: around half back on medicare. It's still you know, around

1178
00:54:39,800 --> 00:54:44,320
Speaker 2: six seven thousand dollars around after the rebate for the

1179
00:54:44,400 --> 00:54:47,160
Speaker 2: first one to end up and absolutely nothing. That truly

1180
00:54:47,239 --> 00:54:51,040
Speaker 2: felt like my safety net had broken, and I didn't

1181
00:54:51,080 --> 00:54:54,000
Speaker 2: know what to do because you know, you go, okay, well,

1182
00:54:54,400 --> 00:54:56,840
Speaker 2: you know, I'm not ready yet, but I'm going to

1183
00:54:57,040 --> 00:54:59,080
Speaker 2: put these little bad boys away and then when I'm ready,

1184
00:54:59,120 --> 00:55:00,480
Speaker 2: I'm going to get my head around that. And then

1185
00:55:00,760 --> 00:55:02,680
Speaker 2: when there was nothing to put away and to go

1186
00:55:02,840 --> 00:55:06,360
Speaker 2: through injections twice a day, and like I found the

1187
00:55:06,440 --> 00:55:11,240
Speaker 2: hormone swings really difficult. I know Ben has found the hormones,

1188
00:55:12,080 --> 00:55:12,520
Speaker 2: but I do.

1189
00:55:12,640 --> 00:55:15,239
Speaker 4: Not care because you have to deal with mate.

1190
00:55:17,000 --> 00:55:19,480
Speaker 2: The skin, Like I've always been very lucky to have

1191
00:55:19,600 --> 00:55:22,400
Speaker 2: good skin, and my skin has just said fuck you.

1192
00:55:24,560 --> 00:55:27,080
Speaker 2: It's just been a lot and for the first round

1193
00:55:27,160 --> 00:55:30,799
Speaker 2: to you know, result in absolutely nothing, because again there's

1194
00:55:30,840 --> 00:55:34,239
Speaker 2: no guarantees even with emberors, there's no guarantees that the

1195
00:55:34,320 --> 00:55:37,600
Speaker 2: embryos will take. And then I'm sort of not even

1196
00:55:37,600 --> 00:55:39,640
Speaker 2: at the stage where I'll be dealing with transfers and

1197
00:55:39,880 --> 00:55:41,960
Speaker 2: the scene that they call the two week weight, which

1198
00:55:42,040 --> 00:55:44,680
Speaker 2: is after the transfer, you have that two weeks to

1199
00:55:44,760 --> 00:55:47,000
Speaker 2: see if it's actually taken if you are pregnant, and

1200
00:55:47,160 --> 00:55:50,560
Speaker 2: then there's obviously still a chance of miscarrying at any

1201
00:55:50,600 --> 00:55:53,200
Speaker 2: point in your pregnancy, but IVF pregnancy is for whatever

1202
00:55:53,360 --> 00:55:56,319
Speaker 2: is and already even higher chance of miscarrying. So there's

1203
00:55:56,840 --> 00:55:59,640
Speaker 2: to look at the journey and it to have already

1204
00:55:59,680 --> 00:56:03,000
Speaker 2: felt like so much and to be like, but you're

1205
00:56:03,000 --> 00:56:06,120
Speaker 2: still down here and there's all of this to go

1206
00:56:06,440 --> 00:56:09,800
Speaker 2: has been a lot. So I'm about to start my

1207
00:56:09,920 --> 00:56:12,279
Speaker 2: third round of egg collection. My second round was a

1208
00:56:12,280 --> 00:56:15,759
Speaker 2: lot more successful. I ended up with three Embreys, which

1209
00:56:15,880 --> 00:56:19,360
Speaker 2: is great, and mindu, that's from twenty two follicles. So

1210
00:56:19,560 --> 00:56:22,319
Speaker 2: you go in with twenty two follicles thinking that you're

1211
00:56:22,320 --> 00:56:26,560
Speaker 2: going to have twenty two little chances, and it becomes

1212
00:56:26,640 --> 00:56:29,080
Speaker 2: like the hunger Games, like anyone who's pluns with IVF

1213
00:56:29,360 --> 00:56:32,480
Speaker 2: literally aside the egg hunger Games, and you start off

1214
00:56:32,520 --> 00:56:35,520
Speaker 2: with like a big number, hopefully if you're lucky. Some

1215
00:56:35,680 --> 00:56:38,719
Speaker 2: women go through all of this stim cycle and the

1216
00:56:38,920 --> 00:56:40,640
Speaker 2: end up with a few, but you have your number,

1217
00:56:41,120 --> 00:56:43,520
Speaker 2: and then each day it just they call you up

1218
00:56:43,560 --> 00:56:46,120
Speaker 2: and they go oh, there's this many left, and then

1219
00:56:46,120 --> 00:56:48,120
Speaker 2: there's this many left of this grade, and there's a

1220
00:56:48,160 --> 00:56:50,600
Speaker 2: few of this grade, and then you know, all of

1221
00:56:50,640 --> 00:56:53,680
Speaker 2: a sudden, you're left with zero, like my first round

1222
00:56:54,200 --> 00:56:58,839
Speaker 2: or three, which is actually considered pretty successful, three out

1223
00:56:58,880 --> 00:56:59,760
Speaker 2: of nineteen.

1224
00:57:00,760 --> 00:57:02,840
Speaker 3: Really they're pretty shitty odds.

1225
00:57:03,360 --> 00:57:07,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, for a typically a plus student, that's hard, hard

1226
00:57:07,320 --> 00:57:09,239
Speaker 1: percentage to get you around.

1227
00:57:09,280 --> 00:57:10,080
Speaker 4: Better than zero.

1228
00:57:10,280 --> 00:57:14,440
Speaker 3: But it's just it's just it's a lot. And then

1229
00:57:14,719 --> 00:57:15,560
Speaker 3: they get frozen.

1230
00:57:15,680 --> 00:57:18,439
Speaker 2: And because of the way that my body works, they've

1231
00:57:18,440 --> 00:57:21,000
Speaker 2: already sort of said to me that a fresh transfer,

1232
00:57:21,080 --> 00:57:24,640
Speaker 2: which is where after you do your cycle, as it suggests,

1233
00:57:24,720 --> 00:57:27,600
Speaker 2: rather than freezing, they'll do a fresh a fresh transfer

1234
00:57:27,720 --> 00:57:30,840
Speaker 2: to hopefully, you know, get you pregnant. Probably isn't going

1235
00:57:30,920 --> 00:57:32,400
Speaker 2: to be how it's going to work for me anyway,

1236
00:57:32,480 --> 00:57:34,760
Speaker 2: because I don't really have a lining, I don't have

1237
00:57:34,880 --> 00:57:38,080
Speaker 2: the right hormone levels. I'll have to go on pgestion,

1238
00:57:39,120 --> 00:57:40,959
Speaker 2: vaginal suppositories and all.

1239
00:57:40,880 --> 00:57:45,000
Speaker 4: Sorts of the joys. The joys. You could write a

1240
00:57:45,120 --> 00:57:48,920
Speaker 4: musical about this. You should literally make an IVF musical.

1241
00:57:49,200 --> 00:57:51,280
Speaker 3: It would be r rated because there would be a

1242
00:57:51,520 --> 00:57:53,440
Speaker 3: lot of swearing and.

1243
00:57:53,520 --> 00:57:54,600
Speaker 1: So much vagina talk.

1244
00:57:54,720 --> 00:57:57,640
Speaker 4: I mean, then there'd be a whole monologue of fuck you,

1245
00:57:58,720 --> 00:57:59,440
Speaker 4: I hate you.

1246
00:58:01,160 --> 00:58:02,960
Speaker 3: No, it's a lot.

1247
00:58:03,240 --> 00:58:05,160
Speaker 2: And the one thing I would say as well is,

1248
00:58:05,680 --> 00:58:09,720
Speaker 2: you know, everyone's journey is completely different, and I never

1249
00:58:09,760 --> 00:58:12,160
Speaker 2: would want to give anyone advice and anything because the

1250
00:58:12,240 --> 00:58:14,520
Speaker 2: way that your body responds and what it responds to

1251
00:58:14,640 --> 00:58:18,160
Speaker 2: and how it works is so completely different. And there's

1252
00:58:18,200 --> 00:58:21,160
Speaker 2: so much that we still don't know about fertility and

1253
00:58:21,280 --> 00:58:24,920
Speaker 2: about our bodies. And I've got friends who have successfully

1254
00:58:25,000 --> 00:58:28,560
Speaker 2: had many children who I'm teaching them how they got

1255
00:58:28,640 --> 00:58:30,080
Speaker 2: pregnant because you don't know.

1256
00:58:30,360 --> 00:58:32,680
Speaker 4: They never had to know that. They never had to know,

1257
00:58:33,080 --> 00:58:34,280
Speaker 4: Like even.

1258
00:58:34,200 --> 00:58:37,480
Speaker 2: Me, I go, wow, okay, so if we got pretty naturally,

1259
00:58:38,040 --> 00:58:41,320
Speaker 2: the sperm actually swims up the Filippian tube and meets

1260
00:58:41,360 --> 00:58:43,200
Speaker 2: the egg, and then it descends into the uterus and

1261
00:58:43,280 --> 00:58:44,160
Speaker 2: then it implants on.

1262
00:58:44,200 --> 00:58:45,959
Speaker 3: The site like I thought they met in the middle

1263
00:58:46,000 --> 00:58:46,840
Speaker 3: and had a great time.

1264
00:58:47,200 --> 00:58:48,040
Speaker 4: No, they don't.

1265
00:58:49,280 --> 00:58:52,240
Speaker 2: Me and with IVF unless you do something called IXY,

1266
00:58:52,360 --> 00:58:55,400
Speaker 2: which is an extra charge. Again, they literally throw the

1267
00:58:55,440 --> 00:58:56,320
Speaker 2: egg in the sperm.

1268
00:58:56,120 --> 00:58:59,000
Speaker 4: In a dish and go happy days, good luck guys,

1269
00:59:00,080 --> 00:59:01,320
Speaker 4: unless you pay extra.

1270
00:59:01,160 --> 00:59:03,959
Speaker 2: Which Ben and I did to actually get a hand

1271
00:59:04,080 --> 00:59:08,680
Speaker 2: picked sperm of fantastic quality, and so one into each

1272
00:59:08,800 --> 00:59:11,720
Speaker 2: follicle for the best chance of fertilization. But again that's

1273
00:59:11,760 --> 00:59:15,280
Speaker 2: an extra cost, and then genetic testing is an extra cost.

1274
00:59:15,360 --> 00:59:17,360
Speaker 2: So you know, with us, just recently we had four

1275
00:59:17,440 --> 00:59:20,360
Speaker 2: embrewers that made it to day five, day six plasticists,

1276
00:59:20,760 --> 00:59:24,080
Speaker 2: which is what you call an embreer that successfully made

1277
00:59:24,080 --> 00:59:27,440
Speaker 2: it to that stage. One of them was chromosomally defunct,

1278
00:59:27,560 --> 00:59:30,280
Speaker 2: so that's not one that we can use. So it's

1279
00:59:31,080 --> 00:59:33,480
Speaker 2: it's just it's such a rollercoaster, and there's so many

1280
00:59:33,520 --> 00:59:35,600
Speaker 2: steps that go into it, and I'm just blown away

1281
00:59:35,760 --> 00:59:39,560
Speaker 2: by science and so grateful that I even have an

1282
00:59:39,560 --> 00:59:43,200
Speaker 2: opportunity to because my great Auntie I found out, also

1283
00:59:43,360 --> 00:59:45,880
Speaker 2: had polycystic ovaries and was never able to have children

1284
00:59:46,000 --> 00:59:49,120
Speaker 2: because she's ninety and this wasn't available to her back then.

1285
00:59:49,280 --> 00:59:53,200
Speaker 2: So incredibly grateful that it's even a chance for someone

1286
00:59:53,360 --> 00:59:58,120
Speaker 2: like me. But getting your head around the process and

1287
00:59:58,400 --> 01:00:01,160
Speaker 2: how much of a physical and a mental battle even

1288
01:00:01,240 --> 01:00:04,560
Speaker 2: this stage of IVF has been has been a real shock.

1289
01:00:04,840 --> 01:00:08,800
Speaker 2: And I think sharing the experience online as I mentioned

1290
01:00:08,840 --> 01:00:11,880
Speaker 2: a little earlier, and the has been incredibly cathartic for

1291
01:00:12,040 --> 01:00:15,520
Speaker 2: me and as someone who really does sort of wear

1292
01:00:15,520 --> 01:00:17,840
Speaker 2: their heart on their sleeve and is quite an emotional person.

1293
01:00:17,960 --> 01:00:21,160
Speaker 2: It does help me to be honest and to sort

1294
01:00:21,200 --> 01:00:23,240
Speaker 2: of share how I'm feeling. And the number of women

1295
01:00:23,720 --> 01:00:25,800
Speaker 2: that have reached out to me since, and people that

1296
01:00:25,880 --> 01:00:27,600
Speaker 2: you and I know in this industry as well, who

1297
01:00:27,680 --> 01:00:29,920
Speaker 2: I had no idea had gone through this. Since it's

1298
01:00:30,000 --> 01:00:31,840
Speaker 2: so much more common than you think, and there's so

1299
01:00:32,000 --> 01:00:34,200
Speaker 2: many of us who are going through this, I just

1300
01:00:34,320 --> 01:00:36,600
Speaker 2: hope those of us who are comfortable and willing to

1301
01:00:36,680 --> 01:00:40,040
Speaker 2: share do it because it is helping people to see

1302
01:00:41,320 --> 01:00:43,680
Speaker 2: other people going through the same thing. And I would

1303
01:00:43,720 --> 01:00:46,960
Speaker 2: never push anyone to share anything that they're not comfortable sharing.

1304
01:00:47,320 --> 01:00:51,640
Speaker 2: But luckily for me, I guess it is something that

1305
01:00:51,760 --> 01:00:54,640
Speaker 2: I'm able and willing to share, so I know, for

1306
01:00:54,760 --> 01:00:57,000
Speaker 2: me personally, when I started going through this in November

1307
01:00:57,080 --> 01:00:59,680
Speaker 2: last year, all I wanted was to find other people

1308
01:00:59,760 --> 01:01:02,600
Speaker 2: to relate to and to listen to, and maybe who

1309
01:01:02,680 --> 01:01:06,120
Speaker 2: hadn't necessarily finished their journey, whether or not it was

1310
01:01:06,200 --> 01:01:08,760
Speaker 2: positive or negative, but to find people to go along

1311
01:01:08,960 --> 01:01:13,160
Speaker 2: with it in real time was really nice. So that's

1312
01:01:13,480 --> 01:01:16,040
Speaker 2: kind of why I decided to put it out there

1313
01:01:16,120 --> 01:01:20,120
Speaker 2: and share and you know, see if anyone it would

1314
01:01:20,120 --> 01:01:22,480
Speaker 2: help anybody else, because it was certainly helping me.

1315
01:01:23,200 --> 01:01:26,400
Speaker 1: I mean it's helped me so much personally, being like

1316
01:01:26,520 --> 01:01:30,000
Speaker 1: that little bit behind you in time even to know

1317
01:01:30,240 --> 01:01:32,320
Speaker 1: what these tests are called, Like, I had never heard

1318
01:01:32,360 --> 01:01:34,960
Speaker 1: of an AMH test before. I had never understood that

1319
01:01:35,400 --> 01:01:39,320
Speaker 1: polycystic ovaries and polycystic ovary syndrome were different. So when

1320
01:01:39,880 --> 01:01:41,920
Speaker 1: I did the same, I had the AMH result being

1321
01:01:42,040 --> 01:01:44,480
Speaker 1: very high and thinking, oh, I'm super fertile, and then

1322
01:01:45,160 --> 01:01:47,240
Speaker 1: in the pelvic ultra sound being like you've got a lot,

1323
01:01:47,320 --> 01:01:49,880
Speaker 1: but I think it's polycystic, and then thinking it was

1324
01:01:49,960 --> 01:01:51,320
Speaker 1: peacos and being like, oh my god.

1325
01:01:51,400 --> 01:01:53,680
Speaker 2: And because then you google that and to all of

1326
01:01:53,760 --> 01:01:57,600
Speaker 2: our gals out there who have peacause, I really sympathized

1327
01:01:57,600 --> 01:02:00,560
Speaker 2: because I can't imagine having the issue is that just

1328
01:02:00,600 --> 01:02:02,520
Speaker 2: say you and I have, but then having the actual

1329
01:02:02,640 --> 01:02:05,760
Speaker 2: cysts and the fun things that come with the syndrome.

1330
01:02:05,840 --> 01:02:10,160
Speaker 2: It's you know, it's a really really difficult, you know

1331
01:02:10,600 --> 01:02:12,200
Speaker 2: thing to have, or you know the girls that have

1332
01:02:12,360 --> 01:02:16,560
Speaker 2: endometriosis that's incredibly painful and there's an extra surgery often

1333
01:02:17,200 --> 01:02:20,160
Speaker 2: of scraping away the end door before you can even

1334
01:02:20,200 --> 01:02:22,120
Speaker 2: get to doing you know, the part that I'm doing

1335
01:02:22,200 --> 01:02:22,720
Speaker 2: at the moment.

1336
01:02:22,920 --> 01:02:27,360
Speaker 3: So it's a really broad thing in fertility, and there's.

1337
01:02:27,280 --> 01:02:31,840
Speaker 2: So many things that can you know, go into having

1338
01:02:31,960 --> 01:02:34,480
Speaker 2: being diagnosed with having infertility, Like there's it's just such

1339
01:02:34,520 --> 01:02:40,080
Speaker 2: a broad spectrum of things. And yeah, I just it's

1340
01:02:40,120 --> 01:02:41,800
Speaker 2: a lot. It's a lot, and I often don't really

1341
01:02:41,880 --> 01:02:43,320
Speaker 2: know how I feel. And each day it can be

1342
01:02:43,440 --> 01:02:46,040
Speaker 2: completely different. Some days I'm really up and I'm positive.

1343
01:02:46,120 --> 01:02:48,400
Speaker 2: Other days I'm just like fuck this, Like I just

1344
01:02:49,440 --> 01:02:51,640
Speaker 2: you know, sitting in a car and rejecting yourself before

1345
01:02:51,680 --> 01:02:53,640
Speaker 2: you go into work that day, or in a public

1346
01:02:53,720 --> 01:02:56,480
Speaker 2: toilet or in an airport toilet or you know, it's

1347
01:02:57,280 --> 01:03:00,520
Speaker 2: bruising as well and bloating because when you've got PCO

1348
01:03:00,880 --> 01:03:04,720
Speaker 2: like I do and you do, Sarah, when you go

1349
01:03:04,880 --> 01:03:07,760
Speaker 2: through IVF, and essentially you're pumping yourself full of hormones

1350
01:03:07,800 --> 01:03:10,880
Speaker 2: to blow up these follicles all the same time for

1351
01:03:11,000 --> 01:03:12,000
Speaker 2: them to be harvested.

1352
01:03:12,440 --> 01:03:13,760
Speaker 3: Great word half.

1353
01:03:15,360 --> 01:03:17,240
Speaker 2: They usually call it egg collection these days, but it

1354
01:03:17,320 --> 01:03:19,400
Speaker 2: was an egg harvest back in the day that they're

1355
01:03:19,720 --> 01:03:22,560
Speaker 2: taken out. If you've got twenty two follicles that all

1356
01:03:22,640 --> 01:03:25,720
Speaker 2: grow to be over twenty millimeters each. You've got over

1357
01:03:25,920 --> 01:03:29,280
Speaker 2: the size of grapefruits sitting inside of you. So you know,

1358
01:03:29,520 --> 01:03:31,040
Speaker 2: if you think of the size of a really nice,

1359
01:03:31,120 --> 01:03:34,080
Speaker 2: juicy grapefruit, having that kind of packing that heat for

1360
01:03:34,160 --> 01:03:34,880
Speaker 2: two weeks.

1361
01:03:34,720 --> 01:03:37,240
Speaker 4: In size, it's actually really uncomfortable.

1362
01:03:37,360 --> 01:03:41,320
Speaker 3: So God, yeah, so it's a lot, but it's a lot.

1363
01:03:41,800 --> 01:03:44,640
Speaker 1: I think the more the more people like you are open.

1364
01:03:44,960 --> 01:03:47,439
Speaker 1: And I had a similar thing of like, I don't

1365
01:03:47,440 --> 01:03:49,280
Speaker 1: want to announce this because then the pressure that it

1366
01:03:49,360 --> 01:03:52,640
Speaker 1: puts on you to do it quickly, because suddenly everyone

1367
01:03:52,760 --> 01:03:55,120
Speaker 1: knows that the temptation is to keep it so secret

1368
01:03:55,200 --> 01:03:57,880
Speaker 1: and to keep it behind closed doors. But for similar reasons,

1369
01:03:57,920 --> 01:04:00,720
Speaker 1: I thought, like Nick and I have this element of

1370
01:04:00,840 --> 01:04:02,919
Speaker 1: I'm adopted and his mum was adopted, so we don't

1371
01:04:02,920 --> 01:04:06,600
Speaker 1: even have like medical background to look at. My mum

1372
01:04:06,760 --> 01:04:10,480
Speaker 1: went through IVF in Monash ivf's first ever round of IVF,

1373
01:04:10,560 --> 01:04:12,880
Speaker 1: and even I didn't know what IVF involved because I've

1374
01:04:12,920 --> 01:04:16,760
Speaker 1: just never asked her, Like there's so little information out there,

1375
01:04:17,000 --> 01:04:19,840
Speaker 1: and even hearing you explain sort of that it involves

1376
01:04:19,920 --> 01:04:22,560
Speaker 1: injecting yourself, I think people don't even know that. People

1377
01:04:23,040 --> 01:04:25,720
Speaker 1: don't even know it's an option or how you would

1378
01:04:25,720 --> 01:04:27,560
Speaker 1: even get there. And I think you have been so

1379
01:04:27,720 --> 01:04:30,960
Speaker 1: incredibly brave in sharing that journey in real time, because

1380
01:04:30,960 --> 01:04:33,120
Speaker 1: it is so different to hearing once you have a

1381
01:04:33,240 --> 01:04:35,000
Speaker 1: child going back and going, oh it was really hard

1382
01:04:35,040 --> 01:04:38,800
Speaker 1: at the time, hearing how you're feeling when it fails,

1383
01:04:38,920 --> 01:04:40,760
Speaker 1: how that does mess with your mind and something that

1384
01:04:40,800 --> 01:04:42,840
Speaker 1: resonated so much, and I think a lot of women

1385
01:04:42,920 --> 01:04:46,680
Speaker 1: in their thirties in this generation will be really feeling

1386
01:04:47,040 --> 01:04:50,440
Speaker 1: the sort of feels about is you saying it's one

1387
01:04:50,520 --> 01:04:52,800
Speaker 1: thing to desperately want this to work and to feel

1388
01:04:52,840 --> 01:04:55,160
Speaker 1: like a failure when it doesn't, but it's even more

1389
01:04:55,200 --> 01:04:58,520
Speaker 1: when you don't actually even you're not desperately wanting the

1390
01:04:58,640 --> 01:05:02,920
Speaker 1: child tomorrow. Yeah, we've had COVID, so we've come out

1391
01:05:02,960 --> 01:05:07,200
Speaker 1: of this three years, three years biologically older, but three

1392
01:05:07,280 --> 01:05:10,640
Speaker 1: years less of experience in life, Like we haven't been

1393
01:05:10,680 --> 01:05:11,560
Speaker 1: able to do anything.

1394
01:05:11,800 --> 01:05:13,600
Speaker 3: You feel like you've been robbed of that time.

1395
01:05:14,320 --> 01:05:17,200
Speaker 2: And I think the most frustrating thing, as well as

1396
01:05:18,040 --> 01:05:21,520
Speaker 2: what it means to be a woman has changed so much,

1397
01:05:22,440 --> 01:05:27,240
Speaker 2: and it's like biology hasn't caught up with our progression

1398
01:05:27,360 --> 01:05:30,480
Speaker 2: in society, and these years where we are killing it

1399
01:05:30,560 --> 01:05:32,640
Speaker 2: in our careers and we've been working our way up

1400
01:05:32,680 --> 01:05:35,479
Speaker 2: to this point. Is that's the time that you really

1401
01:05:35,480 --> 01:05:38,480
Speaker 2: at the last legs of fertility for many ways, and

1402
01:05:38,600 --> 01:05:39,000
Speaker 2: you kind of.

1403
01:05:39,000 --> 01:05:41,360
Speaker 3: Feel like, I don't want to choose. Why do I

1404
01:05:41,520 --> 01:05:43,320
Speaker 3: have to choose between the two? Why I kind of

1405
01:05:43,400 --> 01:05:43,800
Speaker 3: have both?

1406
01:05:43,880 --> 01:05:47,520
Speaker 2: But realistically, there will be a step that is taken

1407
01:05:47,640 --> 01:05:49,960
Speaker 2: back when you fell pregnant and when you first have

1408
01:05:50,040 --> 01:05:52,480
Speaker 2: a child, at least for a little while, it's inevitable,

1409
01:05:52,520 --> 01:05:55,520
Speaker 2: and it's so frustrating when you're like, why, body, Like

1410
01:05:56,160 --> 01:05:58,320
Speaker 2: why do you want to have kids when you're a

1411
01:05:58,480 --> 01:05:59,560
Speaker 2: teenager or two?

1412
01:06:00,560 --> 01:06:03,800
Speaker 4: I know you forty, Like, it's.

1413
01:06:03,720 --> 01:06:06,360
Speaker 3: Just so frustrating that, you know, we've had this amazing

1414
01:06:06,440 --> 01:06:11,280
Speaker 3: evolution of yeah, of what it means to be a

1415
01:06:11,320 --> 01:06:11,800
Speaker 3: woman in this.

1416
01:06:11,880 --> 01:06:14,400
Speaker 2: Day and age, but our bodies have caught up with

1417
01:06:14,440 --> 01:06:18,880
Speaker 2: the program, Like you know why why that elongated as well?

1418
01:06:19,080 --> 01:06:22,720
Speaker 2: Like it's it's very frustrating, and you know, I know

1419
01:06:23,120 --> 01:06:25,080
Speaker 2: future Eron definitely doesn't want to miss out on this

1420
01:06:25,160 --> 01:06:27,600
Speaker 2: part of life. Just current erin getting her head around

1421
01:06:27,680 --> 01:06:30,520
Speaker 2: how it fits in and how it works, and when

1422
01:06:30,560 --> 01:06:32,960
Speaker 2: you when you're married to an athlete who spends six

1423
01:06:33,080 --> 01:06:35,720
Speaker 2: months plus of the year overseas. I don't want to

1424
01:06:35,800 --> 01:06:38,160
Speaker 2: do it on my own. I don't, but I don't

1425
01:06:38,200 --> 01:06:41,960
Speaker 2: want my body to, you know, not allow me to

1426
01:06:42,120 --> 01:06:44,680
Speaker 2: do it when I'm ready and do will I ever

1427
01:06:44,760 --> 01:06:45,280
Speaker 2: feel ready?

1428
01:06:45,400 --> 01:06:46,880
Speaker 3: Because I don't think many women do.

1429
01:06:47,120 --> 01:06:49,480
Speaker 2: And for someone like me, it's a real shame that

1430
01:06:49,520 --> 01:06:51,920
Speaker 2: it couldn't have happened naturally, because then the decision might

1431
01:06:51,960 --> 01:06:53,160
Speaker 2: have been taken that out of my hands and I

1432
01:06:53,200 --> 01:06:56,920
Speaker 2: wouldn't have obsessed over the timing so much. It's you know,

1433
01:06:57,040 --> 01:06:59,160
Speaker 2: it's happened, and it was meant to be this way

1434
01:06:59,200 --> 01:07:00,960
Speaker 2: and great, but for me, it's always going to be

1435
01:07:02,040 --> 01:07:06,520
Speaker 2: clinical and calculated, and I'm sad that it won't be

1436
01:07:08,120 --> 01:07:11,400
Speaker 2: as much of a you know, a surprise and a joy.

1437
01:07:11,480 --> 01:07:13,680
Speaker 2: It's going to be a relief or a disappointment.

1438
01:07:14,240 --> 01:07:15,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, I wish. I wish it could be.

1439
01:07:16,320 --> 01:07:17,919
Speaker 2: I do still agree with the fact that it will

1440
01:07:17,920 --> 01:07:20,640
Speaker 2: ever be quote unquote normal. But the more I learn,

1441
01:07:20,680 --> 01:07:22,880
Speaker 2: the more I realize that no one ever really has

1442
01:07:23,080 --> 01:07:27,120
Speaker 2: a normal sea anyway. So it is what it isn't

1443
01:07:27,200 --> 01:07:32,480
Speaker 2: And you know, for however I'm feeling, whatever I'm going through,

1444
01:07:32,560 --> 01:07:35,120
Speaker 2: there's definitely plenty of other women going through the same thing,

1445
01:07:35,240 --> 01:07:38,080
Speaker 2: and you know where a little underground army, as I say,

1446
01:07:38,160 --> 01:07:40,440
Speaker 2: And there's so many of us, so many of us

1447
01:07:40,480 --> 01:07:42,840
Speaker 2: who go through it. So you know, to everyone who's

1448
01:07:42,880 --> 01:07:45,120
Speaker 2: reached out to me, thank you and have shared some

1449
01:07:45,320 --> 01:07:48,960
Speaker 2: really really personal stories with me, Like I read everything,

1450
01:07:49,040 --> 01:07:52,200
Speaker 2: I respond to everything, and I so appreciate it. And

1451
01:07:53,000 --> 01:07:55,920
Speaker 2: you know, I'm rooting for everyone whatever whatever your journey

1452
01:07:56,040 --> 01:07:59,600
Speaker 2: is with this, whatever you choose, like, I really hope

1453
01:07:59,600 --> 01:08:00,480
Speaker 2: it works out for them.

1454
01:08:00,920 --> 01:08:04,360
Speaker 1: Oh, Aaron, that's just so beautiful. I know you don't

1455
01:08:04,400 --> 01:08:06,880
Speaker 1: want to sort of give anyone advice because the journeys

1456
01:08:06,880 --> 01:08:10,200
Speaker 1: are so different, but perhaps a couple of questions that

1457
01:08:10,360 --> 01:08:13,640
Speaker 1: might be sort of instructive, just anecdotally. One of the

1458
01:08:13,720 --> 01:08:16,240
Speaker 1: questions I got asked was, how do you be really

1459
01:08:16,400 --> 01:08:19,280
Speaker 1: happy for friends who do feel pregnant naturally or who

1460
01:08:19,360 --> 01:08:21,599
Speaker 1: do seem to have a bit of an easier journey

1461
01:08:21,640 --> 01:08:24,639
Speaker 1: and those at our age the announcements are all the time.

1462
01:08:25,800 --> 01:08:30,759
Speaker 1: How do you celebrate, like sort of detach your experience

1463
01:08:30,840 --> 01:08:33,800
Speaker 1: from happiness for them. But grieving is the word to use.

1464
01:08:33,840 --> 01:08:35,800
Speaker 1: I think it is grieving for the loss of that

1465
01:08:36,040 --> 01:08:40,320
Speaker 1: natural surprise journey. How do you still celebrate for people

1466
01:08:40,360 --> 01:08:40,680
Speaker 1: you love?

1467
01:08:41,360 --> 01:08:45,080
Speaker 2: See, because I'm at a stage where I'm not trying

1468
01:08:45,120 --> 01:08:47,519
Speaker 2: to get I'm not going through transfers at the moment.

1469
01:08:47,600 --> 01:08:50,599
Speaker 2: I think that this may change later on down the track.

1470
01:08:50,680 --> 01:08:54,120
Speaker 2: At the moment, I feel something when people tell me

1471
01:08:54,600 --> 01:08:57,360
Speaker 2: they're amazing news, I'm not really sure how to put

1472
01:08:57,400 --> 01:09:00,439
Speaker 2: it into words. I'm still so excited it and so

1473
01:09:00,640 --> 01:09:02,360
Speaker 2: over the moon for my friends, and I think I

1474
01:09:02,400 --> 01:09:06,000
Speaker 2: will always be that way. But that little pang in

1475
01:09:06,080 --> 01:09:09,479
Speaker 2: the heart is it might be getting ever so slightly stronger,

1476
01:09:09,560 --> 01:09:11,679
Speaker 2: but it's not really at that point because I haven't

1477
01:09:11,840 --> 01:09:15,960
Speaker 2: gone through transfers and failed transfers yet, like unfortunately so

1478
01:09:16,040 --> 01:09:17,840
Speaker 2: many women do when they get to that point.

1479
01:09:18,600 --> 01:09:19,599
Speaker 3: Because I'm not there yet.

1480
01:09:19,680 --> 01:09:23,360
Speaker 2: I think I'm still quite okay with that part of it.

1481
01:09:23,479 --> 01:09:26,280
Speaker 2: And I'm a really empathetic person, and I think I

1482
01:09:26,360 --> 01:09:29,360
Speaker 2: will always be just so excited for anybody who's excited

1483
01:09:29,360 --> 01:09:31,640
Speaker 2: about something that they're telling me, and you know.

1484
01:09:31,760 --> 01:09:33,679
Speaker 4: How great, like I would never want.

1485
01:09:34,000 --> 01:09:36,719
Speaker 2: And it's already happening with some friends who have felt

1486
01:09:37,320 --> 01:09:39,880
Speaker 2: scared to tell me, and I'm like, no, I'm so

1487
01:09:40,280 --> 01:09:42,719
Speaker 2: happy for you, Like I don't want this for anybody.

1488
01:09:42,760 --> 01:09:45,240
Speaker 2: I'm so glad that you know it's worked out this

1489
01:09:45,360 --> 01:09:47,800
Speaker 2: way for you, and it may not always be that way.

1490
01:09:47,800 --> 01:09:49,800
Speaker 2: I might wake up tomorrow and feel differently, but at

1491
01:09:49,840 --> 01:09:52,400
Speaker 2: this point it's, you know, I guess because I'm not

1492
01:09:52,520 --> 01:09:56,920
Speaker 2: actually at that that live transfer, you know, two week

1493
01:09:57,000 --> 01:10:00,360
Speaker 2: wait time after time period. Yet I'm not kind of

1494
01:10:00,439 --> 01:10:04,519
Speaker 2: feeling those feelings. So I'm still I'm very very happy

1495
01:10:04,560 --> 01:10:08,360
Speaker 2: and very very thankful that, you know, people in my

1496
01:10:08,479 --> 01:10:10,200
Speaker 2: life are not having to go through this, because I

1497
01:10:10,200 --> 01:10:13,160
Speaker 2: wouldn't wish it on anybody. It's so much harder physically

1498
01:10:13,200 --> 01:10:15,120
Speaker 2: and mentally than I ever would have thought possible. And

1499
01:10:15,760 --> 01:10:18,479
Speaker 2: as I keep reiterating, I am still very much at

1500
01:10:18,479 --> 01:10:21,639
Speaker 2: the beginning of this journey and very aware, I think

1501
01:10:21,720 --> 01:10:25,960
Speaker 2: because I like to educate myself too on the possibilities,

1502
01:10:26,040 --> 01:10:28,760
Speaker 2: and you know what my body will be put through

1503
01:10:28,760 --> 01:10:30,920
Speaker 2: in the future is it may be very hard, and

1504
01:10:31,040 --> 01:10:34,679
Speaker 2: it may also take time for any of these embryos

1505
01:10:34,680 --> 01:10:36,400
Speaker 2: that we managed to get to take. So I think

1506
01:10:36,479 --> 01:10:39,040
Speaker 2: I'm I'm trying to keep it real because on one hand,

1507
01:10:39,120 --> 01:10:42,559
Speaker 2: I've got my husband, to bless him, he was glass

1508
01:10:42,560 --> 01:10:44,080
Speaker 2: half empty when it came to my acut.

1509
01:10:44,120 --> 01:10:46,080
Speaker 3: But he's glass half full with everything else.

1510
01:10:46,200 --> 01:10:49,479
Speaker 4: He's like, yay, we've got three babies. We've beanies on

1511
01:10:49,600 --> 01:10:52,360
Speaker 4: at a test tube and I was with a great

1512
01:10:52,439 --> 01:10:53,200
Speaker 4: hard in their hand.

1513
01:10:54,000 --> 01:10:54,599
Speaker 3: I said.

1514
01:10:54,600 --> 01:10:56,320
Speaker 2: I was like, well, God help them if they're not athletic.

1515
01:10:56,600 --> 01:11:00,560
Speaker 2: But you know, I need to manage he's expectations a

1516
01:11:00,600 --> 01:11:03,400
Speaker 2: little bit. And I think that's something that you know,

1517
01:11:03,560 --> 01:11:05,720
Speaker 2: women who are going through this with male partners will

1518
01:11:05,760 --> 01:11:08,080
Speaker 2: probably struggle with because there's just so much they don't

1519
01:11:08,160 --> 01:11:11,560
Speaker 2: understand about women and what we go through anyway, and

1520
01:11:12,120 --> 01:11:14,800
Speaker 2: managing his expectations on how this is all going to work,

1521
01:11:14,960 --> 01:11:17,400
Speaker 2: Like you know, when we first found out we had IVF,

1522
01:11:17,439 --> 01:11:18,320
Speaker 2: he's like, that's okay.

1523
01:11:18,160 --> 01:11:20,400
Speaker 3: It means we can plan. When I'm like, no, no, no, no,

1524
01:11:21,080 --> 01:11:22,360
Speaker 3: this is just this is.

1525
01:11:22,360 --> 01:11:25,760
Speaker 2: A chance to get pregnant. This is not a guarantee thing.

1526
01:11:25,840 --> 01:11:28,559
Speaker 2: And I don't want to be pessimistic, but I also.

1527
01:11:28,640 --> 01:11:29,640
Speaker 3: Want to be realistic.

1528
01:11:30,280 --> 01:11:32,920
Speaker 2: And I think it's good that he is positive because

1529
01:11:32,920 --> 01:11:35,439
Speaker 2: if he was negative, like I can be about it,

1530
01:11:35,680 --> 01:11:36,160
Speaker 2: it would be.

1531
01:11:37,040 --> 01:11:38,280
Speaker 3: So much soul story.

1532
01:11:38,439 --> 01:11:43,320
Speaker 2: But yeah, it's managing your partner's expectations too as well,

1533
01:11:43,479 --> 01:11:47,000
Speaker 2: which I found really difficult and me just leaving random

1534
01:11:47,080 --> 01:11:52,080
Speaker 2: podcast episodes for him to listen to things just I

1535
01:11:52,200 --> 01:11:53,960
Speaker 2: just think you should listen to this or you know,

1536
01:11:54,040 --> 01:11:57,000
Speaker 2: from a male's perspective of what it is to go through.

1537
01:11:57,080 --> 01:11:59,040
Speaker 2: And another thing as well is the number of men

1538
01:11:59,120 --> 01:12:02,719
Speaker 2: that have reached out with malfactor and fertility has been.

1539
01:12:03,120 --> 01:12:06,000
Speaker 3: Really eye opening and that's fascinating.

1540
01:12:06,320 --> 01:12:08,439
Speaker 2: And the sense of guilt that sometimes they say they

1541
01:12:08,520 --> 01:12:11,240
Speaker 2: feel because the woman still has to go through IVF

1542
01:12:11,320 --> 01:12:14,080
Speaker 2: even if she has no issues. If there's malefactor and fertility,

1543
01:12:14,400 --> 01:12:16,599
Speaker 2: that's just the way it works. So there's almost another

1544
01:12:16,680 --> 01:12:19,679
Speaker 2: layer of their part is so small in so many

1545
01:12:19,760 --> 01:12:24,360
Speaker 2: ways of physically and emotionally what they go through, but

1546
01:12:25,360 --> 01:12:27,560
Speaker 2: it's so emotional still as well, because.

1547
01:12:27,360 --> 01:12:29,880
Speaker 3: You know, it's your partner and it's your child.

1548
01:12:30,000 --> 01:12:32,720
Speaker 2: And yeah, I think that was really interesting as well

1549
01:12:32,840 --> 01:12:36,400
Speaker 2: to hear them sort of speak out and talk to

1550
01:12:36,479 --> 01:12:39,400
Speaker 2: me about how they were feeling and watching their partner

1551
01:12:39,439 --> 01:12:41,680
Speaker 2: go through that when they go well it's because of me, Well,

1552
01:12:41,760 --> 01:12:45,160
Speaker 2: you know what, it's you guys together and this is

1553
01:12:45,200 --> 01:12:49,120
Speaker 2: your journey and just you know, be there for one another.

1554
01:12:49,160 --> 01:12:51,960
Speaker 2: I think that's just so important. Just try and support

1555
01:12:52,000 --> 01:12:53,360
Speaker 2: each other as much as you can. Through it because

1556
01:12:53,360 --> 01:12:55,280
Speaker 2: it's not easy for anyone. And I know I'm guilty

1557
01:12:55,360 --> 01:12:58,120
Speaker 2: of forgetting how Ben feels sometimes because I'm like, you.

1558
01:12:58,400 --> 01:13:04,320
Speaker 4: Don't know, say no words, and you'd be like, what

1559
01:13:04,720 --> 01:13:07,559
Speaker 4: am I getting to share? But I don't know. There

1560
01:13:07,640 --> 01:13:09,639
Speaker 4: are many lines answer my question.

1561
01:13:11,760 --> 01:13:14,360
Speaker 2: He's luckily for me, he's a very calm, very level

1562
01:13:14,400 --> 01:13:18,479
Speaker 2: headed person and I'm the emotional crazy before anyway in

1563
01:13:18,560 --> 01:13:21,200
Speaker 2: the relationship, let alone when I'm stimmed to the eyeballs

1564
01:13:21,240 --> 01:13:21,720
Speaker 2: full of what.

1565
01:13:23,280 --> 01:13:27,479
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, so you've done a collection and then there's obviously,

1566
01:13:27,880 --> 01:13:31,080
Speaker 1: you know, procedurally different phases of IVF from what you'll

1567
01:13:31,120 --> 01:13:31,599
Speaker 1: be going through.

1568
01:13:31,720 --> 01:13:33,320
Speaker 3: So what is next?

1569
01:13:33,439 --> 01:13:34,880
Speaker 1: What are the next steps? And even if you don't

1570
01:13:34,880 --> 01:13:36,920
Speaker 1: want to give anyone else advice, maybe what would you

1571
01:13:37,000 --> 01:13:41,320
Speaker 1: give future erran as advice for navigating the next chapters?

1572
01:13:41,720 --> 01:13:42,639
Speaker 3: So next steps?

1573
01:13:42,640 --> 01:13:45,800
Speaker 2: To me, I've got three embrros on ice, but in

1574
01:13:45,880 --> 01:13:48,280
Speaker 2: an ideal world, should we get to choose Ben?

1575
01:13:48,320 --> 01:13:49,839
Speaker 3: And I would like two children.

1576
01:13:50,120 --> 01:13:54,519
Speaker 2: So the chances of a transfer taking for someone of

1577
01:13:54,600 --> 01:13:59,040
Speaker 2: my age is around thirty percent, So probability maths tells

1578
01:13:59,080 --> 01:14:01,640
Speaker 2: me I need at least seven mbrro So I need

1579
01:14:01,720 --> 01:14:04,200
Speaker 2: to keep going with my egg collections until I managed

1580
01:14:04,240 --> 01:14:07,160
Speaker 2: to get at least seven embryos, is what my doctor

1581
01:14:07,160 --> 01:14:11,360
Speaker 2: has advised me. So I'm about to undertake my third round.

1582
01:14:11,680 --> 01:14:14,080
Speaker 2: I'm going to see the doctor in a couple of days.

1583
01:14:14,240 --> 01:14:17,040
Speaker 2: And because I don't get a cycle, they put me

1584
01:14:17,120 --> 01:14:18,800
Speaker 2: on the pill and then take me off it each

1585
01:14:18,920 --> 01:14:21,200
Speaker 2: time to create some sort of a yeah, there's a

1586
01:14:21,240 --> 01:14:22,439
Speaker 2: lot of hormones.

1587
01:14:22,240 --> 01:14:25,480
Speaker 1: A lot of hormones going on, so you're doing life.

1588
01:14:26,920 --> 01:14:31,439
Speaker 3: Again, I do, I don't know. I yeah.

1589
01:14:31,560 --> 01:14:33,559
Speaker 2: So I get put on the pill and then taken

1590
01:14:33,640 --> 01:14:35,360
Speaker 2: off each time as well. So it takes me a

1591
01:14:35,400 --> 01:14:38,439
Speaker 2: little longer between cycles because I don't have one.

1592
01:14:39,880 --> 01:14:40,479
Speaker 3: Which is great.

1593
01:14:40,680 --> 01:14:43,200
Speaker 2: So I'm on the pillar again at the moment I'll

1594
01:14:43,200 --> 01:14:45,679
Speaker 2: go and see the doctor. He'll do another internal ultra sound.

1595
01:14:45,720 --> 01:14:48,200
Speaker 2: He'll check that I've held up okay from the last

1596
01:14:48,360 --> 01:14:51,280
Speaker 2: egg collection. Having a lot of follicles also means a

1597
01:14:51,320 --> 01:14:54,679
Speaker 2: lot of needles, So in IBF, basically a needle isn't

1598
01:14:54,720 --> 01:14:58,160
Speaker 2: certain into each follicle and the follicles drained and hopefully

1599
01:14:58,240 --> 01:15:02,400
Speaker 2: within that there's an egg. Sometimes there isn't, but because

1600
01:15:02,439 --> 01:15:06,080
Speaker 2: it's twenty two, usually for me needles each time. They

1601
01:15:06,160 --> 01:15:09,559
Speaker 2: just need to make sure that everyone's healing up. Okay, Yeah,

1602
01:15:09,600 --> 01:15:12,240
Speaker 2: so I'll go back and see the doctor and then

1603
01:15:12,320 --> 01:15:14,360
Speaker 2: Bet and I've kind of got an idea in mind

1604
01:15:14,560 --> 01:15:16,960
Speaker 2: next year as to when we'd like to start trying

1605
01:15:17,040 --> 01:15:17,799
Speaker 2: to transfer.

1606
01:15:18,000 --> 01:15:20,439
Speaker 3: In a perfect world, We'll see how I feel.

1607
01:15:20,720 --> 01:15:23,000
Speaker 2: I'm trying to put any pressure of myself in terms

1608
01:15:23,040 --> 01:15:25,360
Speaker 2: of that, and I'll be guided by my doctor as

1609
01:15:25,400 --> 01:15:28,639
Speaker 2: to when the time is right for me physically as well.

1610
01:15:29,760 --> 01:15:32,320
Speaker 2: They also suggest seeing a counselor when you go through IVF.

1611
01:15:32,479 --> 01:15:35,200
Speaker 2: It's not something that I've done personally yet, but I

1612
01:15:35,280 --> 01:15:37,840
Speaker 2: think it's really I think it's really important, particularly if

1613
01:15:37,840 --> 01:15:40,879
Speaker 2: you're not someone who likes to talk to everyone around.

1614
01:15:40,680 --> 01:15:41,840
Speaker 3: Them about what they're going through.

1615
01:15:41,920 --> 01:15:46,200
Speaker 2: I would absolutely recommend, you know, getting those feelings and

1616
01:15:46,240 --> 01:15:49,519
Speaker 2: those thoughts out with professional And then in terms of

1617
01:15:49,600 --> 01:15:54,160
Speaker 2: what I would say to future Erran is you know, Eve,

1618
01:15:54,439 --> 01:15:57,719
Speaker 2: I think knowledge is power, and if it's as simple

1619
01:15:57,760 --> 01:16:01,240
Speaker 2: as getting an AMH test the starting point going and

1620
01:16:01,320 --> 01:16:04,600
Speaker 2: chatting to a fertility doctor if children is something that

1621
01:16:04,640 --> 01:16:07,200
Speaker 2: you think you might like in the future, even if

1622
01:16:07,240 --> 01:16:09,800
Speaker 2: it's not now, I think knowledge is power, And you know,

1623
01:16:09,840 --> 01:16:13,680
Speaker 2: if I'd known I had PCO years ago, maybe it

1624
01:16:13,680 --> 01:16:15,439
Speaker 2: wouldn't made a difference as to when I started this.

1625
01:16:15,560 --> 01:16:15,920
Speaker 3: I don't know.

1626
01:16:16,040 --> 01:16:19,240
Speaker 2: I can't go back in time, but I think fertility

1627
01:16:19,320 --> 01:16:20,960
Speaker 2: is one thing that sticking yourhead in the sand and

1628
01:16:21,040 --> 01:16:23,840
Speaker 2: hoping everything works out for the best doesn't kind of

1629
01:16:23,960 --> 01:16:28,160
Speaker 2: really work that way. So yeah, I would say I

1630
01:16:28,200 --> 01:16:31,080
Speaker 2: would say sooner rather than later. If children is something

1631
01:16:31,120 --> 01:16:33,519
Speaker 2: that you see in your future, just ask the questions,

1632
01:16:33,960 --> 01:16:36,760
Speaker 2: Just book an appointment, ask the questions. Find out your

1633
01:16:36,800 --> 01:16:39,920
Speaker 2: own personal situation. You know the blood tests that Ben

1634
01:16:40,000 --> 01:16:42,320
Speaker 2: and I did in terms of finding out about our

1635
01:16:42,400 --> 01:16:46,760
Speaker 2: genetic situations. You know Ben and his side of things.

1636
01:16:47,000 --> 01:16:49,000
Speaker 2: It's just it's good information to have. And then once

1637
01:16:49,040 --> 01:16:51,320
Speaker 2: you've got the information, you can figure out what it

1638
01:16:51,439 --> 01:16:53,360
Speaker 2: is that you want to do together. And for my

1639
01:16:53,479 --> 01:16:56,040
Speaker 2: friends out there who are you know, single and haven't

1640
01:16:56,040 --> 01:16:58,320
Speaker 2: found a person yet that they want to settle down with,

1641
01:16:59,120 --> 01:17:01,600
Speaker 2: I'd say, yeah, a conversation of you know, where do

1642
01:17:01,720 --> 01:17:04,960
Speaker 2: I sit in that range of eggs and how many

1643
01:17:05,000 --> 01:17:06,720
Speaker 2: I have? How much you know, how much time do

1644
01:17:06,840 --> 01:17:08,640
Speaker 2: I have in a perfect world. I think it's just

1645
01:17:09,000 --> 01:17:11,320
Speaker 2: it's just good information to have for you. And if

1646
01:17:11,520 --> 01:17:12,920
Speaker 2: it is on the lower side and you want to

1647
01:17:12,960 --> 01:17:14,760
Speaker 2: freeze eggs as a as a safety net.

1648
01:17:15,280 --> 01:17:17,519
Speaker 3: Great, do it. I don't think you'll ever regret that

1649
01:17:17,600 --> 01:17:20,040
Speaker 3: decision later on down the track.

1650
01:17:20,200 --> 01:17:23,680
Speaker 2: So yeah, I think not knowledge is power, and just

1651
01:17:23,880 --> 01:17:27,080
Speaker 2: biting the bullet and going and asking the right questions.

1652
01:17:27,120 --> 01:17:30,960
Speaker 3: I think, yeah, it's great, and you know, knowing what

1653
01:17:31,120 --> 01:17:34,880
Speaker 3: I know now, I wish I had twenty seven year

1654
01:17:34,920 --> 01:17:38,040
Speaker 3: old eggs, but I don't. I have thirty three years.

1655
01:17:38,760 --> 01:17:40,439
Speaker 4: We're just going to have to come to terms with that.

1656
01:17:40,720 --> 01:17:44,040
Speaker 2: So yeah, I think I think that's probably the one

1657
01:17:44,040 --> 01:17:46,040
Speaker 2: advice that I would say is, I know it's really scary,

1658
01:17:46,120 --> 01:17:48,320
Speaker 2: and the answer is that maybe we don't write, we

1659
01:17:48,360 --> 01:17:49,760
Speaker 2: don't feel like we're ready for right.

1660
01:17:49,680 --> 01:17:54,800
Speaker 3: Now, but you can't avoid mortality. Yeah, and biology. So

1661
01:17:55,479 --> 01:17:56,599
Speaker 3: I think that's what I would say.

1662
01:17:57,160 --> 01:18:00,040
Speaker 1: I admire you so much and I'm so grateful that

1663
01:18:00,080 --> 01:18:02,720
Speaker 1: you've shared so openly today. I feel like many many

1664
01:18:02,800 --> 01:18:07,880
Speaker 1: listeners will be really really either reassured or feel heard

1665
01:18:08,200 --> 01:18:10,160
Speaker 1: or understand a little bit more about what they perhaps

1666
01:18:10,200 --> 01:18:10,720
Speaker 1: could be doing.

1667
01:18:10,840 --> 01:18:11,000
Speaker 2: Now.

1668
01:18:11,320 --> 01:18:13,479
Speaker 1: There's just so many parts of this story, and I've

1669
01:18:13,520 --> 01:18:16,040
Speaker 1: already kept you for so long, but I'm so grateful.

1670
01:18:16,120 --> 01:18:19,200
Speaker 1: I have so much, so much love and admiration for you.

1671
01:18:20,040 --> 01:18:22,479
Speaker 1: I do have one last question. There's usually a lot

1672
01:18:22,520 --> 01:18:26,160
Speaker 1: of finishes, but I think this one's just probably the

1673
01:18:26,240 --> 01:18:29,280
Speaker 1: most relevant. Given that so much of your day and

1674
01:18:29,479 --> 01:18:32,040
Speaker 1: year is taken up with something that is so challenging

1675
01:18:32,120 --> 01:18:35,560
Speaker 1: and so emotionally consuming, that there has to be some

1676
01:18:35,680 --> 01:18:38,000
Speaker 1: way for you to still find little moments of joy

1677
01:18:38,160 --> 01:18:40,800
Speaker 1: and to be able to still see the light even

1678
01:18:40,880 --> 01:18:42,640
Speaker 1: on days where there is so much darkness. And I

1679
01:18:42,680 --> 01:18:46,040
Speaker 1: think that's something overall that anyone going through anything needs

1680
01:18:46,120 --> 01:18:49,519
Speaker 1: to be able to do for themselves. So how do you,

1681
01:18:49,640 --> 01:18:52,800
Speaker 1: amongst all of this still find the yay? What are

1682
01:18:52,840 --> 01:18:55,599
Speaker 1: the small things in life that remind you to smile

1683
01:18:55,840 --> 01:18:57,200
Speaker 1: even on those really hard days.

1684
01:18:57,880 --> 01:19:01,320
Speaker 2: I'm a people person and surround myself with the people

1685
01:19:01,400 --> 01:19:03,200
Speaker 2: that I love, like that's what pulls me out of

1686
01:19:03,320 --> 01:19:07,360
Speaker 2: any funk. Like I I live alone when I'm in Sydney,

1687
01:19:07,560 --> 01:19:09,640
Speaker 2: and so when I'm away from Ben it gets a

1688
01:19:09,680 --> 01:19:12,400
Speaker 2: little bit harder. But you know, it's catching up with friends,

1689
01:19:12,520 --> 01:19:15,280
Speaker 2: it's going for a coastal walk here and couldie. It's

1690
01:19:15,920 --> 01:19:18,920
Speaker 2: it's physically getting myself out of my funk, whether it's

1691
01:19:18,960 --> 01:19:20,400
Speaker 2: to get up and go and see your friend or

1692
01:19:20,479 --> 01:19:23,840
Speaker 2: to get outside and go to the beach and feel

1693
01:19:23,840 --> 01:19:26,200
Speaker 2: the fresh air and just yeah, I think I think

1694
01:19:26,240 --> 01:19:28,920
Speaker 2: it's it's physically removing myself from the rut that I mean,

1695
01:19:29,080 --> 01:19:32,760
Speaker 2: because I you know, like anybody, we can get get

1696
01:19:32,840 --> 01:19:37,280
Speaker 2: so down and so overwhelmed and you know, overrun by life.

1697
01:19:37,400 --> 01:19:39,800
Speaker 2: And this has been a big, a big one for us,

1698
01:19:40,200 --> 01:19:42,320
Speaker 2: you know, this this year really when we've been going

1699
01:19:42,360 --> 01:19:44,760
Speaker 2: through this. But it's it's you know, spending time with

1700
01:19:44,920 --> 01:19:47,200
Speaker 2: the people that you love, and it's physically getting out

1701
01:19:47,280 --> 01:19:50,600
Speaker 2: and you know, breathing in that beautiful fresh air and

1702
01:19:51,560 --> 01:19:56,320
Speaker 2: and just reminding yourself that life is is incredible and

1703
01:19:56,479 --> 01:19:59,400
Speaker 2: it's got its ups and its downs, and this is

1704
01:19:59,560 --> 01:20:02,599
Speaker 2: just one of the you know, things sent to challenge

1705
01:20:02,640 --> 01:20:05,720
Speaker 2: me in mine but you know, we roll on and

1706
01:20:05,880 --> 01:20:08,880
Speaker 2: we get through it. And I think sharing for me

1707
01:20:09,000 --> 01:20:12,640
Speaker 2: has also been really important for my mental health. So

1708
01:20:13,200 --> 01:20:17,240
Speaker 2: thank you to everyone who has reached out and converse

1709
01:20:17,320 --> 01:20:20,479
Speaker 2: with me about this, because it's, yeah, it's it's a lot,

1710
01:20:20,920 --> 01:20:23,840
Speaker 2: and yeah, it's okay to sit in those feelings too,

1711
01:20:23,880 --> 01:20:26,479
Speaker 2: as much as we try to move through them and

1712
01:20:26,600 --> 01:20:28,920
Speaker 2: run away from them. I think I think sitting in

1713
01:20:29,000 --> 01:20:30,840
Speaker 2: them is and processing.

1714
01:20:30,439 --> 01:20:31,479
Speaker 3: Is just as important.

1715
01:20:31,680 --> 01:20:37,280
Speaker 4: So yeah, and chocolate. Love chocolate fed me chocolate when

1716
01:20:37,280 --> 01:20:37,639
Speaker 4: I when.

1717
01:20:37,560 --> 01:20:39,720
Speaker 2: I'm on these cycles, I can't you know, I'm not

1718
01:20:39,840 --> 01:20:42,479
Speaker 2: drinking or anything like that as well, So I'm like chocolate.

1719
01:20:42,560 --> 01:20:42,840
Speaker 2: It is.

1720
01:20:44,479 --> 01:20:47,080
Speaker 1: One of my favorite quotes is you were assigned this

1721
01:20:47,240 --> 01:20:50,080
Speaker 1: mountain to show others can be moved. It was sent

1722
01:20:50,160 --> 01:20:52,240
Speaker 1: your way because you're strong enough to deal with it.

1723
01:20:52,600 --> 01:20:54,560
Speaker 1: Do you have any favorite quotes to leave us with?

1724
01:20:55,479 --> 01:20:57,400
Speaker 3: Oh, gosh, that's a He's find that on me.

1725
01:20:57,880 --> 01:21:01,280
Speaker 4: That's a big question. I know favorite. I should have

1726
01:21:01,360 --> 01:21:02,960
Speaker 4: said it to you before it's the finisher.

1727
01:21:04,280 --> 01:21:05,519
Speaker 3: I'm just trying to think. I actually have like a

1728
01:21:05,600 --> 01:21:06,120
Speaker 3: little note.

1729
01:21:06,479 --> 01:21:08,479
Speaker 2: I actually do have one, and very fittingly, it came

1730
01:21:08,600 --> 01:21:12,680
Speaker 2: from a music talent show, but it came from America's

1731
01:21:12,720 --> 01:21:15,800
Speaker 2: Got Talent, and there was a singer called Nightbird and

1732
01:21:15,920 --> 01:21:18,719
Speaker 2: she said, you can't wait until life isn't hard anymore

1733
01:21:19,040 --> 01:21:20,320
Speaker 2: before you decide to be happy.

1734
01:21:21,000 --> 01:21:24,799
Speaker 4: Oh oh erin.

1735
01:21:28,120 --> 01:21:32,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, I just think it's yeah, And you know, for.

1736
01:21:32,680 --> 01:21:36,240
Speaker 2: Her personally, her story was absolutely incredible and and she

1737
01:21:36,560 --> 01:21:38,799
Speaker 2: she isn't with us and he wore this particular performer

1738
01:21:38,840 --> 01:21:40,880
Speaker 2: because she she had cancer, but it.

1739
01:21:42,000 --> 01:21:45,920
Speaker 3: Resonated with me. So much, and yeah, I think that's

1740
01:21:47,720 --> 01:21:48,519
Speaker 3: you know, whatever it is.

1741
01:21:48,600 --> 01:21:51,719
Speaker 2: Everyone's life has a different path and a different journey,

1742
01:21:51,800 --> 01:21:55,760
Speaker 2: and what is hard an inverted commas for me is

1743
01:21:55,800 --> 01:21:57,559
Speaker 2: going to be very different to it's hard for someone.

1744
01:21:57,680 --> 01:22:01,479
Speaker 2: But it's all relative and it's all hard, And yeah,

1745
01:22:01,760 --> 01:22:05,040
Speaker 2: I think there's in any situation, there's always lie at

1746
01:22:05,040 --> 01:22:05,799
Speaker 2: the end of the tunnel.

1747
01:22:06,479 --> 01:22:08,920
Speaker 1: That is the most beautiful way to feel.

1748
01:22:09,080 --> 01:22:11,400
Speaker 4: I got through the whole thing without crying. I was

1749
01:22:11,439 --> 01:22:13,360
Speaker 4: actually going to say, you made it so far, and

1750
01:22:13,439 --> 01:22:17,600
Speaker 4: then I ruined it all that's fun, it's fine, we

1751
01:22:17,720 --> 01:22:18,080
Speaker 4: did well.

1752
01:22:18,640 --> 01:22:19,160
Speaker 3: It's a lot.

1753
01:22:19,600 --> 01:22:21,759
Speaker 1: That's the tagline, and I know, I know I should

1754
01:22:21,760 --> 01:22:24,360
Speaker 1: put that underneath. It's like your little caption erin thank

1755
01:22:24,400 --> 01:22:27,320
Speaker 1: you so much. You are just an incredible, incredible human

1756
01:22:27,400 --> 01:22:31,080
Speaker 1: being and I am so so grateful for you today

1757
01:22:31,320 --> 01:22:32,000
Speaker 1: and every day.

1758
01:22:32,400 --> 01:22:32,760
Speaker 3: Thank you.

1759
01:22:33,880 --> 01:22:36,720
Speaker 1: Oh it never goes past me. What a privilege it

1760
01:22:36,880 --> 01:22:39,680
Speaker 1: is that people trust this beautiful neighborhood so much with

1761
01:22:39,800 --> 01:22:43,040
Speaker 1: their stories in such vulnerable moments of their lives. As

1762
01:22:43,080 --> 01:22:45,479
Speaker 1: I've mentioned before, ours are just two among a million

1763
01:22:45,560 --> 01:22:47,760
Speaker 1: different experiences, and I'm sure there's a lot we didn't

1764
01:22:47,760 --> 01:22:50,560
Speaker 1: cover in the spaces between what we've been through or

1765
01:22:50,720 --> 01:22:53,560
Speaker 1: going through. But there is just so much to the

1766
01:22:53,600 --> 01:22:56,519
Speaker 1: conversation about fertility and conception, and I think we're taught

1767
01:22:56,720 --> 01:22:59,920
Speaker 1: so little at a time that gives us enough notice

1768
01:23:00,040 --> 01:23:03,360
Speaker 1: to actually do something with So I so appreciate people

1769
01:23:03,360 --> 01:23:05,639
Speaker 1: as well known as Aaron being so raw and generous

1770
01:23:05,680 --> 01:23:08,519
Speaker 1: with their stories to help encourage more conversation and awareness

1771
01:23:08,560 --> 01:23:11,960
Speaker 1: around what's involved. And I would love you, Yeaghborhood, to

1772
01:23:12,000 --> 01:23:15,160
Speaker 1: show your gratitude by helping share the episode and tag

1773
01:23:15,280 --> 01:23:17,479
Speaker 1: at eron v Holland and ask with your insights or

1774
01:23:17,520 --> 01:23:20,240
Speaker 1: takeaways so that we can keep the conversation going but

1775
01:23:20,360 --> 01:23:23,479
Speaker 1: also show erin our love for everything that she shared.

1776
01:23:24,000 --> 01:23:26,160
Speaker 1: If anyone is interested in any further episodes on the

1777
01:23:26,200 --> 01:23:28,519
Speaker 1: topic or expert Q and as you know, we're always

1778
01:23:28,520 --> 01:23:31,439
Speaker 1: open to suggestions and requests, so please just send us

1779
01:23:31,439 --> 01:23:34,760
Speaker 1: an email or a DM. On a very different note,

1780
01:23:34,920 --> 01:23:37,519
Speaker 1: but it's sort of connected, I guess, to the fertility conversation.

1781
01:23:37,640 --> 01:23:40,719
Speaker 1: The adoption episode is also coming up, which is another

1782
01:23:40,880 --> 01:23:43,760
Speaker 1: beautiful conversation and I can't wait to share that to

1783
01:23:44,000 --> 01:23:47,040
Speaker 1: our listeners on their own journeys however that may be unfolding.

1784
01:23:47,120 --> 01:23:49,640
Speaker 1: I'm sending you all the love in the world and

1785
01:23:49,720 --> 01:23:51,639
Speaker 1: in the meantime, I hope everyone is having a great

1786
01:23:51,680 --> 01:23:53,639
Speaker 1: week and seizing their yeay