Speaker 1: This episode is brought to you by Prime Video's incredible
Speaker 1: new film Thirteen Lives, based on the gripping true story
Speaker 1: of the twenty eighteen Tai Cave rescue. If you've been
Speaker 1: listening for a while, you'll know of this story from
Speaker 1: my all time favorite episode with doctor Richard Harris in
Speaker 1: episode one h two, and now you can watch it
Speaker 1: unravel from August fifth.
Speaker 2: What I've come to realize is I'm really chosen. That's
Speaker 2: my theme in my life, like the fact that we
Speaker 2: were chosen from Australian parents, that it never met us before, yeah,
Speaker 2: and we had not done anything to earn It is
Speaker 2: the definition of grace. No one thinks about identity more
Speaker 2: than an adoptee. In my view, I think adoptees all
Speaker 2: think about identity all the time.
Speaker 1: Welcome to the C's thea podcast. Busy and happy are
Speaker 1: not the same thing. We too rarely question what makes
Speaker 1: the heart seeing. We work, then we rest, but rarely
Speaker 1: we play and often don't realize there's more than one way.
Speaker 1: So this is a platform to hear and explore the
Speaker 1: stories of those who found live say, adore the good,
Speaker 1: bad and ugly, the best and worst day will bear
Speaker 1: all the facets of seizing your yay. I'm Sarah Davidson,
Speaker 1: or a spoonful of Sarah, a lawyer turned unentrepreneur who
Speaker 1: swapped the suits and heels to co found matcha Maiden
Speaker 1: and matcha Milk Bar. Ses The YA is a series
Speaker 1: of conversations on finding a life you love and exploring
Speaker 1: the self doubt, challenge, joy and fulfillment along the way,
Speaker 1: beautiful yighborhood. You may have noticed that the Yavidsons are
Speaker 1: over in Italy at the moment for the extraordinary wedding
Speaker 1: of one of our past guests, Blair James, co founder
Speaker 1: of Iconic Oz, the Empire Bondai Sands, and his new wife,
Speaker 1: Melanie Adams or Melanie James. Should I say, if you've
Speaker 1: listened to his episode, you'll know about his humble beginnings
Speaker 1: in a tiny country town of Victoria and how incredible
Speaker 1: his path YA has been to Lake Como here today.
Speaker 1: And if you haven't already heard that story, go back
Speaker 1: and have a listen and a stalk of the wedding.
Speaker 1: Let the James begin. I've never seen anything so beautiful,
Speaker 1: but of course I made sure you have an episode
Speaker 1: in your ears and I'm so excited about today's it
Speaker 1: is a very special one to me on adoption. Following
Speaker 1: our anonymous Q and A a couple of weeks ago,
Speaker 1: some of you may remember that I was at an
Speaker 1: event recently and was partnered with a legend named Matt
Speaker 1: Purcell from Sydney, who I had never met before, and
Speaker 1: somehow we figured out we were not only both adopted
Speaker 1: and both adopted from South Korea, but adopted from the
Speaker 1: same orphanage around the very same time. I often talk
Speaker 1: about my adoption, but really with someone with the same
Speaker 1: unique cultural experience that we have, and this was so special.
Speaker 1: To realize things about how I felt that I didn't
Speaker 1: even know myself, and to hear Matt's perspective now that
Speaker 1: he has his own biological children just blew my mind.
Speaker 1: He's also got an amazing business and Korea pathiery as well,
Speaker 1: which you'll hear all about, but I'll let you hear
Speaker 1: it from the man himself. I hope you enjoy listening.
Speaker 1: And then we answered all of your questions from the
Speaker 1: anonymous Q and A, but please feel free to submit
Speaker 1: any more that you have. Introducing to the neighborhood, Matt
Speaker 1: Purcell Matt Purcell aka brother from another mother, which is
Speaker 1: actually possible. Welcome to Cca.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, Hello, sister from another mister or maybe
Speaker 2: the same mister.
Speaker 1: How bizarre, how bizarre?
Speaker 2: I know, I know it was a special day, and
Speaker 2: I do feel like we made a good news story together.
Speaker 3: We see a lot of people losing.
Speaker 2: Their houses of the economy or COVID, and then just
Speaker 2: meeting each other was a beautiful time. You're from Eastern welwearfairs,
Speaker 2: from welfare Eurasian, but your career and you're adopted now.
Speaker 1: So for those who don't know, although it seems like
Speaker 1: a lot of you did kind of catch wind of
Speaker 1: the story. Matt and I we don't live in the
Speaker 1: same state and we have a lot of like mutual friends,
Speaker 1: but we didn't know this at the time, and we
Speaker 1: both turned up at this activation for Zero, an incredible,
Speaker 1: incredible tool if anyone has a business. I don't even
Speaker 1: know how I would do business without it. But we
Speaker 1: both turned up and we were paired together having never
Speaker 1: met before, and the people at zero who organized it
Speaker 1: also not knowing any of this, and we figured out
Speaker 1: within like the first thirty seconds that we were both
Speaker 1: adopted from the same orphanage in career. What the actual fuck?
Speaker 1: I know, like, what do you mean?
Speaker 2: I know, I don't know what it's very I mean, yeah,
Speaker 2: I think that's what seven billion people on the planet.
Speaker 3: And then if you look at the population in Australia
Speaker 3: and we're.
Speaker 2: Luckily two of them out of twenty six million, it's
Speaker 2: like a zero zero zero zero zero zero zero zero
Speaker 2: is something to even be he let alone be adopted
Speaker 2: from that same place.
Speaker 3: And what year were you born? I mean you might
Speaker 3: not want to disclose that, but was it late? Was
Speaker 3: it late?
Speaker 1: I mean ninety seven? Can't you tell from my skin?
Speaker 3: Sixty eight actually? And you would still look good.
Speaker 2: The Agian vampire genes that you get, and then you
Speaker 2: hit sixty two and then you just.
Speaker 3: Something happens.
Speaker 1: Sultana. It's sultana.
Speaker 3: That's so right. Something happens.
Speaker 2: Skin gets tight for so many years and it's like
Speaker 2: I've had enough jab at the heart.
Speaker 1: It's crazy, isn't it. So this is something we definitely
Speaker 1: need to talk about, the fact that we have like
Speaker 1: so many benefits of Asian genetics without necessarily feeling Asian
Speaker 1: in our brains. So it's like this, like I've spoken
Speaker 1: about this before on the podcast, but never with someone
Speaker 1: else who comes from that same quirky, very unique situation.
Speaker 1: So even just for us to have met and be
Speaker 1: able to talk about it, we were trying to do
Speaker 1: our actual job and like experience the thing. But we
Speaker 1: were also like, oh my godd were you born And
Speaker 1: we were born like a year apart, so you were
Speaker 1: eighty eight, right and I'm eighty nine, so like our
Speaker 1: parents could have literally cross parts. It's like, it's so bizarre.
Speaker 2: It's crazy, and I've got to ask you a question,
Speaker 2: like when you look in the mirror. When I look
Speaker 2: in the mirror, I don't see an Asian dude, Like
Speaker 2: I don't go oh, I don't think about it.
Speaker 1: Me, I don't see an Asian dude either. No, no,
Speaker 1: I genuinely don't all the time. I forget, like all
Speaker 1: the time. And then sometimes I'll just catch myself in
Speaker 1: at an angle that looks like where I look more
Speaker 1: Asian than I usually do, if that's possible, and I'm like, oh, wait,
Speaker 1: that's me.
Speaker 3: That's what I am. So bizarre, that's me.
Speaker 2: I sometimes catch myself out going that's right, I'm Asian
Speaker 2: on the outside, I say, I've got Asian hardware on
Speaker 2: the the hardware is the.
Speaker 3: Strained software is there. So that's why I'm.
Speaker 1: Like, totally, it's so weird, And it's so weird that
Speaker 1: like nether of us look even remotely not fully Asian,
Speaker 1: Like we're not even three quarters Caucasian one quarter Asian,
Speaker 1: where you could genuinely forget that you look Asian. Like
Speaker 1: no one has ever been mistaken about me being Asian
Speaker 1: or not, is what I'm saying, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: So it's weird that we get surprised.
Speaker 2: I know, it's really strange. I don't know what was
Speaker 2: it like growing up with that for you. I mean,
Speaker 2: I'll let you interfuse you. This is your share, but.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I have so many questions. Okay, let's go to
Speaker 1: the beginning. Okay, so the booke end questions that will
Speaker 1: kind of like surround us any kind of CZA interview,
Speaker 1: even though I'm so excited to fill most of the
Speaker 1: middle with adoption chat. The first question for you to
Speaker 1: break the ice is what is the most down to
Speaker 1: earth thing about you? And you can't say adopted because
Speaker 1: everyone already knows that fact about you. But I know
Speaker 1: you're a dad so I feel like maybe that'll break
Speaker 1: the ice. Like you get to work with some pretty
Speaker 1: incredible people, big names who we'll talk about that later
Speaker 1: as well. But it would be easy to meet you
Speaker 1: and think on the outside that what you do is
Speaker 1: really glossies. So what's something really normal about you?
Speaker 2: I snore sometimes, nah, and I am a dad. I
Speaker 2: married my high school sweetheart when I was We met
Speaker 2: when we're fourteen, so we married.
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, I've been married ten years. See my wife,
Speaker 3: she's got blunt hair, blue eyes, and we've got half
Speaker 3: halfy daughters, so oh my god.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know what's really crazy? And I think we
Speaker 2: can get there soon. Like we will chat about this
Speaker 2: probably today. Is that's my first blood relative I know of,
Speaker 2: Like my kids are like, that's that's it. So like
Speaker 2: for so many years I thought I can clearly see
Speaker 2: what's my Australian parents, the nurture part, but the nature part.
Speaker 2: I'm like everything that's a gap between them and my
Speaker 2: gifts and things, that's got to be genetics. And I'm
Speaker 2: seeing my kids, me and my kids, I'm like, this
Speaker 2: is the this is the weird I seeing they look
Speaker 2: like me. They crack jokes, like me. They have the
Speaker 2: same anger problems like me.
Speaker 3: Sometimes that's me.
Speaker 2: No, but.
Speaker 1: This is so interesting. We haven't had kids yet, so
Speaker 1: I haven't had that sort of conversion from never having
Speaker 1: anyone that looks like me to actually like that was
Speaker 1: the first question I asked you when I was like, dude, wait,
Speaker 1: you have kids. What is it like to have someone
Speaker 1: that looks like you?
Speaker 2: That's so good, it's so special, it's more profound. I
Speaker 2: have to keep it to myself because my wife gets it.
Speaker 2: She's like, she thinks I'm amazing because of where we've
Speaker 2: come from, and I guess been able to live a
Speaker 2: pretty straight life in a way, like a pretty good
Speaker 2: life despite so many challenges we've had. But having my
Speaker 2: own blood is something more profound. It's a level I
Speaker 2: never knew that I had, in a depth I never
Speaker 2: knew I had, And it makes me cry a lot
Speaker 2: because it's a beautiful. It's a connection to something that
Speaker 2: I never had before. So it's just I don't think
Speaker 2: a lot of people have that disconnect from blood sometimes.
Speaker 2: I mean other adoptees would, and foster care kids wouldn't
Speaker 2: have helped a lot of them, But that was very
Speaker 2: special you'll love it.
Speaker 3: You absolutely, Oh, just crush over the kids.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I'll be on the phone to you.
Speaker 1: I'm sure, like the first whole year, I'll be like,
Speaker 1: but like no one gets it. Stim yeah, literally, oh
Speaker 1: my god. So I feel like the best place to
Speaker 1: start before we kind of build up to you now
Speaker 1: having kids and going a bit more into that experience,
Speaker 1: is to go back to the very beginning, like your
Speaker 1: very early days. And we took some questions in the
Speaker 1: last twenty four hours on socials just to sort of
Speaker 1: see what people would be interested in. And I think
Speaker 1: more than any other guest, you know, we usually start
Speaker 1: at childhood and our memories, but in this situation, a
Speaker 1: lot of people wanted to know about our parents and
Speaker 1: particularly our mothers, and what their journey was to adoption,
Speaker 1: why they chose to adopt, and also how they chose
Speaker 1: Korea because it's, you know, it's natural to us, like
Speaker 1: that's such an obvious thing because it's not foreign, it's
Speaker 1: we've grown up around it. But for other people it's
Speaker 1: sort of like, oh, that's interesting, Like Australian couples chose
Speaker 1: Korea of all places, So what was your families?
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I've said this to you by the way
Speaker 2: for the edit. But he's a picture of my mum,
Speaker 2: so that's.
Speaker 3: Holding me as a bubble fat baby. And the story
Speaker 3: of my mother and my dad.
Speaker 2: They are both they're white people, so they're from Newcastle
Speaker 2: and it looks like.
Speaker 1: They're oh my god, they're no Vocas nor Vocastrians. Cute.
Speaker 2: I mean, I make it joke all the time of it.
Speaker 2: It sounds awful, but it's so true. Being an Ovocastrian
Speaker 2: and having two white parents. People can probably just think, hey,
Speaker 2: little boy, are you kidnapped?
Speaker 1: But it's like not even funny because it is an
Speaker 1: unusual thing to see, especially in the eighties, especially.
Speaker 3: In the eighties. Yeah, my mom and dad.
Speaker 2: My mother found out very early on that she couldn't
Speaker 2: have kids naturally, so but she just wanted to be
Speaker 2: a mom. Obviously, she wanted to be a mom, and
Speaker 2: they did everything they could to look into getting having
Speaker 2: children and to like there were even foster Pearans for
Speaker 2: a time, and that was really challenging for them because
Speaker 2: you get some foster children get they're already grown up,
Speaker 2: you know, they're already twelve or something, and they come
Speaker 2: into your house. They went applied for international adoption in
Speaker 2: Korea was one of the major agencies that were promoting
Speaker 2: around the time, so around your age. In my age,
Speaker 2: that was one of the main countries on the map.
Speaker 2: But what I didn't realize and I really appreciate now
Speaker 2: is they had to go through four years of waiting
Speaker 2: and they paid thousands of dollars for this, and they
Speaker 2: had to have owner house, they had to have background checks,
Speaker 2: they had to have of a solid income and go
Speaker 2: to these set seminar dates and things like that to
Speaker 2: be eligible. And then when our child became available, here's
Speaker 2: the kicker. You don't get to choose if they're healthy,
Speaker 2: what gender.
Speaker 3: They are, or what their parents' backgrounds were of the child.
Speaker 2: So they said, listen, we're going to try to talk
Speaker 2: you out of this. You could have a disabled child,
Speaker 2: and do you still want to.
Speaker 3: Go through with it? And they're like, yeah, we definitely
Speaker 3: want to be parents.
Speaker 2: So already from the outset, I mean growing up now
Speaker 2: and hearing that, I'm like, wow, if you can have
Speaker 2: kids naturally, that's fantastic gift. Sometimes it's like people find
Speaker 2: it easy to do that and you don't have to
Speaker 2: jump through any of those hoops. But when you're going
Speaker 2: through what our parents had to go through, and I'm
Speaker 2: sure it was the same for you, that's a huge.
Speaker 3: Risk on their end, and it showed that.
Speaker 2: That's what real love is, is that despite the risk
Speaker 2: of maybe not having a perfectly healthy child, still say yes.
Speaker 1: It's so beautiful because you know how much they have
Speaker 1: to have wanted you to make it happen. Like my
Speaker 1: mum always says, it wasn't a nine month pregnancy. It
Speaker 1: was like a nine year pregnancy, like the process of
Speaker 1: getting too even close to getting a child. Once she
Speaker 1: knew mum was similar, they worked out that they couldn't
Speaker 1: conceive naturally. Mum did IVF for a really long time,
Speaker 1: which was already extraordinarily expensive and so much on the body,
Speaker 1: and so counting that plus the four years of the
Speaker 1: social workers coming to live with you and your finance
Speaker 1: is getting vetted and sending money left, right and center.
Speaker 1: She's like, it took nine years to get you. So
Speaker 1: if you ever questioned that I didn't want you, I
Speaker 1: have nine years of my life that I was effectively
Speaker 1: pregnant trying to have you. So it is. I think
Speaker 1: it's such a beautiful, selfless thing because also they know that,
Speaker 1: I mean, there's a risk of having all kinds of things,
Speaker 1: even if you have your child naturally and you don't
Speaker 1: love them any less and you know there's that connection.
Speaker 1: But with adopt you get the child when they're sort
Speaker 1: of five or six months old, like you don't have
Speaker 1: that innate like, oh I birthed them, this just random
Speaker 1: kid is just like Hi, I'm sort of you know,
Speaker 1: had six months of my life and this is me.
Speaker 1: You've got to take me with all I've got going on,
Speaker 1: Like it's such a weird situation.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's really weird now.
Speaker 2: And it goes to show that adoptees are chosen. And
Speaker 2: that's what I have as my theme of my life
Speaker 2: and that's what gives me value through all the changes
Speaker 2: and challenges I've had as a person that from the
Speaker 2: beginning I was chosen from my Australian parents who look
Speaker 2: like Bill Clinton and Hillary's amazing.
Speaker 1: So, how old were you at the time when you
Speaker 1: were adopted?
Speaker 3: I was four months how about you?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Five, so similar age, which I think means our experience.
Speaker 1: I think just a sort of not disclaimer, but just
Speaker 1: a note to anyone listening that the experience of people
Speaker 1: adopted as infants is infinitely different to anyone who was,
Speaker 1: you know, old enough to have memories of their family beforehand,
Speaker 1: or even as teenagers. Like it's a completely different situation. So,
Speaker 1: you know, we're speaking from a very infant level adoption.
Speaker 1: And I think to sort of wrap up that answer
Speaker 1: about why Korea at the time, you know, there are
Speaker 1: only certain countries who were open for adoption, and that
Speaker 1: changes every couple of years. So I think at least
Speaker 1: in my parents situation, they were just they just wanted
Speaker 1: to be parents, same as you were saying, Matt, and
Speaker 1: it was like, well, how can we do that? And
Speaker 1: the country that was open at the time was Korea,
Speaker 1: and I think they're actually closed at the moment, and
Speaker 1: that it rotates around the world and also depends on
Speaker 1: that country's relationship with Australia. So it wasn't sort of like,
Speaker 1: let's pick Korea out of all of the countries. It
Speaker 1: was let's try and be parents. What's available at this point,
Speaker 1: and it just happened to be Korea. And you know,
Speaker 1: I don't think that even been there before, which is
Speaker 1: even more like, wow, well you just were so sure
Speaker 1: you wanted to be parents that you had not you
Speaker 1: know what I mean. I just think it's much.
Speaker 3: It's beautiful. Yeah, it really is.
Speaker 1: So one of the other questions we got was did
Speaker 1: you have an instant connection with your adoptive family or
Speaker 1: did it take time? And then another person said a
Speaker 1: similar thing, but also because for them they often felt
Speaker 1: a disconnect or like they didn't sort of belong. And
Speaker 1: I think I have to remind everyone here that we
Speaker 1: were infants, so I didn't have a connection to anyone else.
Speaker 1: Even if I did have a connection to my birth mother,
Speaker 1: I wouldn't have remembered that at five months old. So
Speaker 1: it's sort of a hard question to answer in that sense.
Speaker 1: But as I grew up, like, what was your experience
Speaker 1: once you did kind of grow up?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 3: Same, I think it's the same thing. You just love
Speaker 3: your mom and dad.
Speaker 2: Mom and dad was the two white people that raised me,
Speaker 2: Like my mom and dad dare your mom and dad,
Speaker 2: and despite blood, and that didn't really bother me at
Speaker 2: all until they separated when I was six, so that's
Speaker 2: when it all changed for me. And then I started
Speaker 2: And my sister, she's from Taiwan, not a blood relative,
Speaker 2: but she was four years younger than me, and she's
Speaker 2: from Taiwan.
Speaker 3: This is awful. You can edit this out if you want.
Speaker 3: This is awful. But my sister, my dad goes your
Speaker 3: sister was more expensive. Yeah.
Speaker 1: My mom always says like she's the most politically correct
Speaker 1: person in the entire world, but like, you've got to
Speaker 1: make light of the weird uniqueness of your situation. She's
Speaker 1: always like, well, you know, lots of people say, oh,
Speaker 1: my kids are trouble olah blah blah blah, but you know,
Speaker 1: I just shopped around. I just shopped around until I
Speaker 1: found a good one. Like, Mom, No, we don't say
Speaker 1: those things out loud.
Speaker 3: This one was on special.
Speaker 1: That's my warranty run out. Like, can I send her
Speaker 1: back because she's just being a little shit Like when
Speaker 1: I was a teenager. She's like, you know what if
Speaker 1: there was a returns pola, I see right now, I'd
Speaker 1: be thinking about it. I was like, Mom, No.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, you know what's really interesting? I actually
Speaker 3: have you been back?
Speaker 1: Yes, so that's my next question. Sorry, yeah, but before
Speaker 1: we get to that.
Speaker 2: Sorry, Yeah, I didn't bother me. Util my parents separated
Speaker 2: and then my mom. I live with my mom and
Speaker 2: my mom struggled. I mean we struggled financially for years
Speaker 2: and then my dad eventually got a better job than
Speaker 2: he did well, So I was bounty between waiting, you know,
Speaker 2: like as a child going, oh, my friends all have
Speaker 2: this stuff and Mum's saying, you're going to have to
Speaker 2: wait two months to you go in a dad's house
Speaker 2: who wants to spoil you all the time. But we
Speaker 2: moved the house about fourteen times as kids with my mom.
Speaker 2: So so I wasn't born with a silver spoon. I
Speaker 2: wasn't adopted with a silver spoon in my mouth, and
Speaker 2: I was born with chopsticks nana ja all the I
Speaker 2: honestly think even meeting you and I'll be interested to meet.
Speaker 2: I've actually met a handful of adoptees from Korea, but
Speaker 2: from other backgrounds. I spoke around at a conference in
Speaker 2: New Zealand and they're all adopted there, and it's interesting.
Speaker 2: A lot of them are high achievers. And I think
Speaker 2: no one thinks about identity more than an adoptee. In
Speaker 2: my view, I think adoptees all think about identity all
Speaker 2: the time, absolutely once they hit a certain age. And
Speaker 2: I think we a lot of us go into achievement
Speaker 2: mode two and I think, yeah, yeah, I think that
Speaker 2: definitely looks like what you've done. You're a high achieve
Speaker 2: I'm a high achieved. I wasn't good at school, by
Speaker 2: the way, I was a bit of a drop kick
Speaker 2: at school. I got an asterix for my ata an asterix.
Speaker 2: That's the thing they give you when you get a
Speaker 2: mark so low. They just don't give him the number.
Speaker 1: I just give him a stop it. No, that's a
Speaker 1: stop I call that a star. You've got a special star.
Speaker 1: But it's interesting you said that. I totally agree that
Speaker 1: you grapple with concepts like identity earlier than anybody else,
Speaker 1: so you've had much more practice by the time you
Speaker 1: get to adolescence when it really hits sort of the
Speaker 1: average person, but a particularly cross cultural adoption. You really
Speaker 1: have to get comfortable with being different from very early.
Speaker 1: And that's you know, most kids, they have a lot
Speaker 1: of their life blissfully ignorant of needing to fit in
Speaker 1: because they already do fit in. Whereas for us, I
Speaker 1: feel like you have a really hard time earlier, but
Speaker 1: that helps you build resilience later. And then in terms
Speaker 1: of the hard work thing, you also have this like
Speaker 1: overarching knowledge that things could have been different. That you know,
Speaker 1: everyone's lucky to grow up in Australia, but we're extra
Speaker 1: lucky because we didn't start here. We got a second
Speaker 1: chance to have this life. And so I feel like
Speaker 1: that drives a lot of that need to achieve and
Speaker 1: make the most of it, which is, you know, a
Speaker 1: blessing and a burden at least a lot of burnout,
Speaker 1: but also has a lot do a wonderful life. But
Speaker 1: before we do move on to that question that we're
Speaker 1: about to start before, one of the other questions was
Speaker 1: whether or not you ever wonder what your life would
Speaker 1: have been like if you weren't adopted.
Speaker 3: Oh, hell yeah, I had a different name.
Speaker 2: So when I went to visit a little bit before
Speaker 2: getting to it, when I went to visit the orphanage
Speaker 2: the Eastern Chile Welfare, they said my birth mother had
Speaker 2: named me already.
Speaker 3: And to me, that hit me hard because I'm like,
Speaker 3: this is like.
Speaker 2: A Hollywood story of a life of an identity that
Speaker 2: I actually had an identity, like my name would have
Speaker 2: had a certain reputation with the family, and the reason
Speaker 2: why my mother passed me on was because she was
Speaker 2: worried about that name because she's fearful that her father
Speaker 2: would kick her out. So I would have had She
Speaker 2: was a very uneducated woman, apparently like young woman, and
Speaker 2: I would have had a pretty tough time. I think
Speaker 2: we grew up in I was born in a country
Speaker 2: area and she went to the city dropped me off.
Speaker 2: So like I think my life it could have been
Speaker 2: like rejected by my birth granddad and struggle for a
Speaker 2: single mother.
Speaker 3: It would have been pretty tough.
Speaker 2: So her choice to say listen, I think someone else
Speaker 2: can raise you better. It's a sacrifice that I'm really
Speaker 2: grateful for. And I think often throughout my life I
Speaker 2: wish I could say to her, you did the right thing,
Speaker 2: like you made the right choice, thank you, because I
Speaker 2: think she would be you never forget your kids.
Speaker 3: You'd be looking at the stars while not going I
Speaker 3: hope your God. It's really emotional.
Speaker 2: Actually yeah, I think you look up the stars and
Speaker 2: be like, I hope you had it all right.
Speaker 1: Really it's really beautiful.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So I think that would have been a different life.
Speaker 3: So that makes me really grateful with the one I
Speaker 3: have now.
Speaker 1: Sorry, no, no, I think it's beautiful that there's a
Speaker 1: place where we can talk about stuff like this as
Speaker 1: well in a way that you don't often explore it
Speaker 1: that often because like this level depth reflection, there's not
Speaker 1: many people you can reflect with about it because it
Speaker 1: is such a unique scenario to think about this person
Speaker 1: out there who might be thinking of you still. And
Speaker 1: I don't actually know what my birth mother's situation was,
Speaker 1: but I mean, in most cases, the logic is that
Speaker 1: you were put up for adoption for a reason, and
Speaker 1: that's probably not going to be the most rainbow type story.
Speaker 1: And looking back at Korea in the eighties, you know,
Speaker 1: there were like really heavy stigmas around having children in
Speaker 1: certain situations and for girls as well, like young women
Speaker 1: of well, young girl children, children, girl children, is that
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, young girl children, young girls, you know,
Speaker 1: they were not like if you weren't from a good
Speaker 1: family or if you had raised in an orphanage there
Speaker 1: was no access to education or Korea was a third
Speaker 1: world country at the time. It's amazingly developed now, but
Speaker 1: in the eighties it was very different. And I often
Speaker 1: think like my grandmother, my adopted grandmother, used to cry,
Speaker 1: thinking that the sex trade existed at the time, that
Speaker 1: there was trafficking, like there was all kinds of things
Speaker 1: that in a parallel universe could have been our life,
Speaker 1: and it's just bizarre. And then to humanize that, to
Speaker 1: think there's an actual person out there who wanted us
Speaker 1: to have better and still might look at the stars
Speaker 1: and think about us, just oh god, it's so I
Speaker 1: don't even know how to describe that feeling.
Speaker 2: So you don't know much about your back Krean, I
Speaker 2: mean the reasons.
Speaker 3: Did you get any story or anything.
Speaker 1: No, So the next question was about like going back
Speaker 1: and finding your biological parents, And I guess the first
Speaker 1: question there is so you've obviously been back, But the
Speaker 1: first question is for a lot of Korean adoptees, you
Speaker 1: sort of have birth parents and then they put you
Speaker 1: up for adoption, and then your family here can pay
Speaker 1: for you to be fostered in the time in between,
Speaker 1: so that you live with a family rather than living
Speaker 1: just in like the sterility of an orphanage. Did you
Speaker 1: have a foster family as well?
Speaker 3: No, I just lived in the orphanage, did you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So, my my strained parents told me the first
Speaker 2: time they saw me, They're like this fat baby.
Speaker 3: Rolling on the ground.
Speaker 2: They're just laying on the grown so back to the ground,
Speaker 2: just like looking out and they're like, oh, that's that sad.
Speaker 2: And they picked me up and they turned my head
Speaker 2: area and my head's completely flat because they never.
Speaker 3: To it turned me. So I have a flat head.
Speaker 3: It's a grand but it's quite flat. And they never
Speaker 3: turned me the bard.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, you poor little Bubba, little baby.
Speaker 3: Dunlop, Marshmallow baby.
Speaker 1: Michelin baby. Oh you were so cute. By the way,
Speaker 1: those photos came through this morning. I was like, holy
Speaker 1: fucking shit, you are adorable.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean the flathead thing makes sense. They thought
Speaker 2: I was brain damaged. Yeah, they weren't sure then, yes,
Speaker 2: that's interesting.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. So one thing also, I will say,
Speaker 1: as we start to get into the biological parents thing,
Speaker 1: I don't know about you, but my default language is
Speaker 1: my parents. Here that other people sort of say you're
Speaker 1: adoptive parents or you're Australian parents. They're just my parents,
Speaker 1: and my brother is my brother, and my grandparents are
Speaker 1: my grandparents. The only reason I am saying adoptive in
Speaker 1: this episode is so that people don't get confused because
Speaker 1: we'll be talking about both. But normally like there's you know,
Speaker 1: someone asked earlier whether you ever feel like left out
Speaker 1: or disconnect. I never felt that way. I have always
Speaker 1: felt like they're the only parents I've ever known, the
Speaker 1: only family I've never known. I never I'm like, oh,
Speaker 1: meet my adoptive mom. I'm like, that's my mum. But
Speaker 1: I will call him my adopted mom today so that
Speaker 1: you guys know who I'm talking about. Are you what's
Speaker 1: your feelings about.
Speaker 2: That are totally the same. And I say mom, a's
Speaker 2: my mum And some people actually do ask me, oh,
Speaker 2: you're you real mom? Yeah, yes, that's my my real mom.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: So dad like Asian and like no, and they're like,
Speaker 3: oh my god, I'm so sorry.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you should be made. I don't make him feel
Speaker 2: too bad. It's always a funny thing. But they don't
Speaker 2: say real mom or real dad.
Speaker 1: Oh always, And I'm like, but they are my real parents.
Speaker 1: Your parents are like who brought you up and who
Speaker 1: you have all your memories with. That's yeah, it's weird
Speaker 1: when people like, have you met your real parents? I'm like, yeah,
Speaker 1: they're right over there. You want to go say hi? Yeah,
Speaker 1: Like those Caucasian people over.
Speaker 3: There, they're like are you serious.
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Speaker 1: not miss out. So when did you decide? As you
Speaker 1: guys can obviously tell, we both know that we were
Speaker 1: adopted from Eastern Child Welfare which is now called Eastern
Speaker 1: Social Welfare Services, which is still in Seoul, in the
Speaker 1: capitol in Korea, in South Korea, and that you can
Speaker 1: go back and you can still visit the babies, you
Speaker 1: can still see the orphanage. But you know a lot
Speaker 1: of people will go back in order to find their
Speaker 1: biological family. So when was the first time you went back,
Speaker 1: And was it for that reason?
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was for that reason. I didn't know a
Speaker 2: bar of Korean. I don't know about you, but I
Speaker 2: didn't do well at learning Korean.
Speaker 1: No, maybe I learned like twink or twin cale and
Speaker 1: like that's about it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I learned on your haco in mushy mushi sayo,
Speaker 2: which is.
Speaker 3: Probably not the right thing.
Speaker 2: It's fully like a swear word, or it was meant
Speaker 2: to say delicious because I'd eat few of it would.
Speaker 1: Say oh that's so cut and probably with like a
Speaker 1: really bogan accent.
Speaker 2: Also, Yomo, I went over I was about I was
Speaker 2: about ten years ago now, and I went solo.
Speaker 3: And it was weird because I didn't know any of
Speaker 3: the language.
Speaker 2: So I teed up from Australia before I left to
Speaker 2: meet with some people in Korea which I knew through Compassion,
Speaker 2: the child sponsorship group, And I was like planning to
Speaker 2: meet up with someone and they're going to help me out,
Speaker 2: just get around town and translate for me, because I
Speaker 2: had no idea, and so I went to Eastern Child
Speaker 2: Welfare and I didn't know what to expect. I world
Speaker 2: up with a lot of emotion in the taxi, I remember,
Speaker 2: and I was like, this is where it all started.
Speaker 3: I'm heading to Yeah, here's about my identity.
Speaker 2: It's like I had an amnesia, Like there's a part
Speaker 2: of me that just doesn't remember. So I just sat
Speaker 2: in this room where these two really nice Korean Koreans
Speaker 2: got a folder out, a Manila.
Speaker 3: Folder of photos and a document. This is strange.
Speaker 2: So that fat baby photo I just showed before was
Speaker 2: one of the photos my mom had to send back
Speaker 2: to the orphanage because she needed to send progress reports
Speaker 2: every three months to show.
Speaker 3: That I was nourished and I was happy. I didn't
Speaker 3: know that.
Speaker 2: So that trip I learned a lot about what my
Speaker 2: parents had to do with the deal to be able
Speaker 2: to have adopted kids. And they told me the crazy
Speaker 2: story about my life. They said that your birth mother
Speaker 2: left a note and didn't leave a Social Security security
Speaker 2: and she told her story a little bit and I
Speaker 2: was like, going, oh my god, is here we go
Speaker 2: and the story goes she lived in a place called
Speaker 2: Chola book though which is a couple of hours out
Speaker 2: of Soul in a rural area. Her mother passed away
Speaker 2: when she was younger, so she grew up as the elders,
Speaker 2: looking after a dad and her two younger brothers. And
Speaker 2: my father was some delivery guy from the city and
Speaker 2: delivered goods to that farm all the time, and he
Speaker 2: slept over one night and it went on his way,
Speaker 2: and she had no idea she was pregnant. I had
Speaker 2: no idea she was pregnant because she wasn't educated and
Speaker 2: had no mom telling her. And her description was five
Speaker 2: foot two and fat. They said she was fat in.
Speaker 3: The description with a phat like a cool fat, not
Speaker 3: a curvy, not a beautiful It was fat. And I'm like,
Speaker 3: what is wrong with you? That's my mother, Yima.
Speaker 2: Don't talk about my mom like that.
Speaker 1: That's such an Asian thing, like you know how they
Speaker 1: just sometimes have no attact, like they're just like, oh, oh,
Speaker 1: very chubby, cute, chubby cheeks. I'm like, mate, come on,
Speaker 1: like you know, we want honesty, but not that much.
Speaker 2: And it actually makes sense because her sires hid pregnancy
Speaker 2: symptoms for her, like she didn't know what was going on.
Speaker 2: And it's not uncommon with uneducated Yeah, an education, low
Speaker 2: education to be like that has happened in Australia and
Speaker 2: stories have heard of people who have been pregnant and
Speaker 2: didn't know it.
Speaker 3: But she didn't know.
Speaker 2: I'm surprised because you feel the kicks. I've felt the
Speaker 2: kicks of my wife's belly. So I don't know what
Speaker 2: she's thinking. Maybe the chicken still alive from the night before.
Speaker 1: Its horror, that's horrible.
Speaker 3: What are you thinking? Anyway?
Speaker 2: She this is the crazy thing. I thought this was
Speaker 2: got to be a lie because it sounds like a movie.
Speaker 2: She actually hit labor.
Speaker 3: In the barn floor.
Speaker 2: Stop it in her But no, she hit labor on
Speaker 2: the barn floor and the next door neighbors freakishly heard
Speaker 2: her crying and delivered me on the barn floor.
Speaker 3: And I'm like, what the are you? I'm like, I'm
Speaker 3: is astonished, like you see it, like, yeah, how much
Speaker 3: can go wrong when you have a kid?
Speaker 1: Oh my god.
Speaker 3: How many people mothers and children have died at childbirth.
Speaker 3: So I was it was a miracle that I.
Speaker 2: Had been delivered and someone had hurt her cries and
Speaker 2: it wasn't her dad, And I say that I'm Asian
Speaker 2: Jesus in a lot of ways.
Speaker 3: Because I was born on a floor.
Speaker 1: In a lot of ways, like so many ways. I
Speaker 1: love that. Yeah, were you in Ald Like.
Speaker 3: I'm going to say I was. Let's let's just add
Speaker 3: a bit of Hollywood in there now.
Speaker 1: Absolutely. I mean you walked on water the first time.
Speaker 1: That's how you got to Australia. You walked here.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I swam. Some people have asked me what part
Speaker 3: of career from me from north or south? And we're like,
Speaker 3: oh god.
Speaker 1: I was actually going to ask you if that comes
Speaker 1: up all the time.
Speaker 3: From north or South? I'm like, are you an idiot?
Speaker 3: I always ask him bluntly, are you an idiot?
Speaker 2: Like I have to be the best swimmer in the
Speaker 2: planet across from there?
Speaker 1: I know it's wild. I'm like, I would not be
Speaker 1: here because people can't actually go in and out. But cute,
Speaker 1: cute wild. So this is fascinating because I have also
Speaker 1: been back. I went back when I was four to
Speaker 1: get my brother, who is also Korean, same orphanage, different
Speaker 1: biological families, same birthday.
Speaker 3: What I tell you that, yeah, oh my gosh. Wow.
Speaker 1: So you know how the Koreans believe that, like the
Speaker 1: child chooses the family, like not the other way around.
Speaker 3: Do you know that.
Speaker 2: Koreans don't count you're one day, you're year one when
Speaker 2: you're born. Yeah, so you're not You're not month you're one.
Speaker 2: So we're an older we're actually in Korea a year
Speaker 2: older that we are in Australia.
Speaker 1: Yeah, which I just choose to ignore because grest Yeah,
Speaker 1: me too. But so I went back on us four,
Speaker 1: don't I was too young to kind of really understand
Speaker 1: what that really meant. Then I went back when I
Speaker 1: was twelve for the Soccer World Cup when it was
Speaker 1: in Korea and Japan, and that was when I first
Speaker 1: kind of understood that I was a foreigner there, like
Speaker 1: straight away. I didn't like, no one thought I was
Speaker 1: from Korea, Like Australian kids are so like loud and
Speaker 1: crazy and all the Korean kids are like really neat
Speaker 1: and refined. But I met we both met our foster
Speaker 1: parents that that time, and I understood the significance of
Speaker 1: that because I knew that she'd had us for the
Speaker 1: five months that we were, you know, kind of between
Speaker 1: being born an adoption. But I don't think on either
Speaker 1: of our paperwork any notes or any details about our
Speaker 1: actual birth parents, so we don't have any of that information.
Speaker 3: That's blown my mind.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I assumed that there may have been something left,
Speaker 2: but a silly of me, because you're right, like some
Speaker 2: people get left in firm boxes literally and found.
Speaker 3: My mom. Actually, this is the weird thing.
Speaker 2: My my mom told me that I was left in
Speaker 2: a phone box, and I believe that my whole life,
Speaker 2: that I was left in a firm box and found
Speaker 2: by the orphanage. Then I went to Korea and they
Speaker 2: I wasn't left in a phone box. I was delivered
Speaker 2: by my birth mom with a note and then she left.
Speaker 2: And I'm like, what the hell happened there?
Speaker 1: We miscommunication, dude.
Speaker 3: She's like, no, I swear that they told me that
Speaker 3: that's my life. Like I believe that my whole life.
Speaker 2: And they said I wasn't left in a firm box,
Speaker 2: in a shoe box or something like that.
Speaker 1: Anyway, cute story, like very Hollywood.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I've just lied to a whole bunch of people.
Speaker 3: I've shared that story too.
Speaker 1: Oh so, yeah, we don't sort of easily have access
Speaker 1: to that information. And often I was told the birth
Speaker 1: father because of the circumstances of your adoption is never
Speaker 1: listed on the paperwork at all, if they even knew
Speaker 1: who he was. So the question I often get asked
Speaker 1: is do you want to find your biological parents? The
Speaker 1: first answer is the information isn't readily there, so it
Speaker 1: would be extraordinarily difficult, given it was no digitization of records.
Speaker 1: The records at the time were terrible anyway, The details
Speaker 1: of the birth father probably aren't there. The details of
Speaker 1: the birth mother, it was again rural, she's probably moved
Speaker 1: to house a million times, might not have been a
Speaker 1: real name. Like, you've got to really want to find
Speaker 1: them and be able to deal with Korean bureaucracy from
Speaker 1: like thirty five years ago to do that. And I
Speaker 1: haven't had the desire. If you told me I could
Speaker 1: just go there and find out, I would go there
Speaker 1: and find out. But given it's like a twenty thirty
Speaker 1: year kind of life consuming task, I just haven't really
Speaker 1: felt the need to do that. But did you end
Speaker 1: up finding out, like being able to actually contact your
Speaker 1: birth mother?
Speaker 3: Nah? I couldn't.
Speaker 2: They didn't have enough information as well. And there's like
Speaker 2: eighty million people plus stare now, so it's just I
Speaker 2: just trying to find one person with the wrong name,
Speaker 2: and I mean they she left her first name and
Speaker 2: left my name there, like this is beyond Nongu, that's
Speaker 2: my name.
Speaker 1: Mine's Chess singer Chase Chess.
Speaker 3: Sunger jsunger Ah, that's nice. Does that mean criminal?
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, it does loose cannon in Korean. But
Speaker 1: you know what's even harder in Korea. I don't know
Speaker 1: if you guys listening know this, but there's really only
Speaker 1: like five surnames Park, Lee, Chair, which is actually choice
Speaker 1: spelled c Hi. That's my surname, Kim, and like a
Speaker 1: few others, but almost everyone is missus Kim or missus
Speaker 1: Lee or missus Park in Korea. So it's even harder
Speaker 1: because it's not like there's a million different surnames and
Speaker 1: it could be a really unusual one. There's just like
Speaker 1: one jillion of the same surname. So it just would
Speaker 1: be so difficult. So my answer is always like, yes,
Speaker 1: if they were in the next room, I'd love to
Speaker 1: meet them, ask them about, like see what they look like.
Speaker 1: But given that it's like so much effort, I'm not desperate.
Speaker 3: I'm at peace with not being able to meet them.
Speaker 2: I'm at peace because that trip actually created a lot
Speaker 2: of closure for me just to close that loop, like
Speaker 2: it's just too hard and I could just wish it.
Speaker 2: I can hope and I can pray and that's that's
Speaker 2: about it, and just be grateful for you just got
Speaker 2: to learn to be thankful for that you're chosen.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's so I'm at peace with it too.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's really nice. That's really nice. And I think
Speaker 1: it's like, as you just mentioned then, that the reverse
Speaker 1: of being at peace with it is that it does
Speaker 1: take most of your lifetime to this point to grapple
Speaker 1: with that identity. So i'd love to sort of ask
Speaker 1: you now about that identity piece, about you know, when
Speaker 1: you do go to Korea. I went back again Nike
Speaker 1: a couple of years ago, and it was the first
Speaker 1: time i'd been back since I was twelve, and again,
Speaker 1: it was so interesting to get to like the motherland
Speaker 1: and not feel any connection to it, Like I felt
Speaker 1: such a deep emotional connection. But I didn't look at
Speaker 1: people around me and go, these are my people, and
Speaker 1: they didn't look at me and go, she's Korean. Like
Speaker 1: I automatically look like a tourist. I'd look out of place,
Speaker 1: like i'd dress out of place. It's interesting to me
Speaker 1: that no one's ever been confused that I was a
Speaker 1: Korean from Korea, Like it's so obvious. And that identity
Speaker 1: piece is really interesting because you kind of grow up,
Speaker 1: like as you mentioned, literally as a Caucasian person in
Speaker 1: your brain with this full blown Asian exterior, and it's
Speaker 1: it's weird, like it's unusual.
Speaker 3: Yeah, amazed me. That made me go very deep.
Speaker 2: I was often my mum would get concerned with how
Speaker 2: deep I'd get, just we really, I would think.
Speaker 3: So I started thinking very early on.
Speaker 2: I was always attracted to older people because I just
Speaker 2: my own age people, just I just I just crave
Speaker 2: certainty and crave to be able to discuss deeper topics.
Speaker 3: And I think identity is it's a crazy topic at
Speaker 3: the moment because you have.
Speaker 2: A national identity, you have a peer identity, a professional identity,
Speaker 2: and you peel back all the layers of the onion
Speaker 2: and be like, what really is my identity when you
Speaker 2: know I'm a daughter, I'm a son, I'm a friend
Speaker 2: or my husband.
Speaker 3: And what I've come to realize is I'm really chosen.
Speaker 2: That's my theme in my life, like someone's chosen me
Speaker 2: and you could choose to go, oh, yeah, I'm earning
Speaker 2: my identity.
Speaker 3: That's that's an interesting concept.
Speaker 2: I earn it and I wear my identity, and he's
Speaker 2: I could show my identity, But really I am the
Speaker 2: fact that we were chosen from Australian parents that it
Speaker 2: never met us before. Yeah, and we had not done
Speaker 2: anything to earn it. Is the definition of grace. Grace
Speaker 2: is unmerited favor. So that's why grace is not a
Speaker 2: word thrown ayana anymore. But in Christian terms, grace is
Speaker 2: giving favor and showing love and sacrificing for someone who
Speaker 2: doesn't deserve it.
Speaker 3: And that's what our parents did for us. So I
Speaker 3: feel like that's part of my identity.
Speaker 2: That's like as core as I can get to. And
Speaker 2: I think the quote I live by is we're not
Speaker 2: born when is a losers we're born chooses. Oh, so
Speaker 2: we get to choose our identity. Who I am is
Speaker 2: whose I am in a way, it doesn't make sense
Speaker 2: sometimes when I say that, I get me.
Speaker 1: I get it. That's so interesting. You sound like you've
Speaker 1: had a quite similar experience to me in that it
Speaker 1: isn't you know, sometimes people get very much when you
Speaker 1: say you're adopted, they get like, oh, like, is that
Speaker 1: trauma for you? And I don't find it particularly traumatic
Speaker 1: because I don't remember being torn away from a situation,
Speaker 1: you know, if it's only ever represented a great life
Speaker 1: and the theoretical possibility that it could have been different.
Speaker 1: But it does take some grappling with but you get
Speaker 1: to a place where you can feel grateful for it
Speaker 1: and live this beautiful life. But I do find that
Speaker 1: one of the harder things when I was younger was
Speaker 1: dealing with things like racism or bullying without actually feeling
Speaker 1: like I matched that person, Like my identity was as
Speaker 1: this Asian Australian, like now we would say a person
Speaker 1: of color, and even now when there's you know, much
Speaker 1: better social discourse around diversity and you know, not discriminating
Speaker 1: against people based on being a person of color. Sometimes
Speaker 1: I feel like I'm speaking about my experience, but I
Speaker 1: feel like a fraud because I'm like, but I'm not
Speaker 1: a real Asian, so yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't feel
Speaker 1: like I can speak on behalf of all Asian women
Speaker 1: because like I didn't grow up having that experience of
Speaker 1: having weird food at lunchtime or but I did get
Speaker 1: bullied for being Asian, you know what I mean? Like,
Speaker 1: did you have that when you were younger where you
Speaker 1: were kind of like teased but you were like, wait,
Speaker 1: I'm white, Like you don't get it.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think in primary school a lot I was
Speaker 2: picked on and even physically bullied by some kids and
Speaker 2: stuff like that. On that And it's interesting you say that,
Speaker 2: like it's because we don't have the culture of Asian
Speaker 2: culture in US, like that's the culture is a big
Speaker 2: part of it.
Speaker 3: And so yeah, I was picked on for being especially in.
Speaker 2: Newcastle where there wasn't a lot of it's surround You
Speaker 2: go visit Sydney and I swear that was the first
Speaker 2: time my mum lost me because it's like everywhere you're
Speaker 2: surrounded by the invasion of the Asians, Like wow, it
Speaker 2: was such an eye opening finger in a Chinatown as
Speaker 2: a young kid going.
Speaker 3: Wow, wow, what is this?
Speaker 1: Yeah, especially from Newcastle, you'd have been like, dude, oh
Speaker 1: my god.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I always found that weird to sort of have parts
Speaker 1: of an Asian identity ascribed to me but internally not
Speaker 1: really resonating with a lot of them, and like reconciling
Speaker 1: that somehow, Like I remember being at Pains when I
Speaker 1: was younger to not be friends only with Asian people,
Speaker 1: so people didn't assume that I was your typical Asian kid.
Speaker 1: I don't know why I cared about that, but like
Speaker 1: I was like, no, I'm like a Wasian, Like I
Speaker 1: really wasn't to prove that I was for some reason.
Speaker 1: I don't know why.
Speaker 2: Yeah, in people's minds here and when I grew up,
Speaker 2: it was I think now reflecting back, maybe everyone generalizes
Speaker 2: in stereotypes and they have a certain attitude toward people
Speaker 2: who look a certain way based on what they've been
Speaker 2: given and to believe through their society and upbringing. So
Speaker 2: I definitely think they're confused too, as much as anyone.
Speaker 2: But as a young kid, you're just vulnerable because you're
Speaker 2: not taught how to defend yourself or what to say
Speaker 2: and what the rules engagement are. But now I do,
Speaker 2: and I wish I could go back and jackie chan
Speaker 2: them all on the head.
Speaker 1: That's it. The thing we were talking about. I can't
Speaker 1: remember who were recording or not yet, maybe we were
Speaker 1: was that, like the weird thing is that you get
Speaker 1: a lot of the like the benefits of having an
Speaker 1: Asian heritage without really feeling like you had to earn them,
Speaker 1: Like my skin, I don't have botox yet, and I'm like,
Speaker 1: I'm thirty three. I'm pretty happy with that, right.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we look good.
Speaker 1: We good like we have no like hardly any body hair.
Speaker 1: We're like, are you good at maths?
Speaker 3: I'm pretty good at maths?
Speaker 1: Like, pretty good at maths.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 1: There's all these things that like do come with a
Speaker 1: coup from your like ethnic heritage that I'm like, I've
Speaker 1: got good hair, got good nails, pretty good skin Like,
Speaker 1: I'm pretty happy with that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and your work ethic, do you think that's a
Speaker 2: innate or nature nurture with your work ethic?
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a really good question. I have always been
Speaker 1: fascinated by what's nature and what's nurture. I never had
Speaker 1: I don't know if you did. But my parents are
Speaker 1: so not tiger parents. They were so not like making
Speaker 1: me do tutoring or making me choose particular subjects, Like
Speaker 1: I just never had pressure to be anyone other than
Speaker 1: who I was just developing into. And they were so
Speaker 1: supportive of the arts. I was a ballerina when I
Speaker 1: was younger, and I think they show me a very
Speaker 1: good work ethic, so I think they contributed to it.
Speaker 1: But I also think I was kind of born like crazy,
Speaker 1: like I need to do eight hundred things at a time.
Speaker 1: So I don't know. I think maybe it's both. It's weird.
Speaker 1: It's weird that we have to ask ourselves that all
Speaker 1: the time. So now that you've got to the stage
Speaker 1: of having your own biological children, as we started with,
Speaker 1: it's this fascinating experience of having a blood relative for
Speaker 1: the first time. What has that been like, and especially
Speaker 1: not having any medical information about fertility or you know that.
Speaker 1: I think the medical information is like a big gap
Speaker 1: where maybe I would like to sort of have a
Speaker 1: little bit more information.
Speaker 2: I'm so glad you raise that, because I could be
Speaker 2: a walking time bomb. I mean, I don't know about you,
Speaker 2: but I haven't I've been a typical Aussie bloke, I
Speaker 2: think in the sense I haven't checked myself for a
Speaker 2: lot of my of any signs of because I'm not
Speaker 2: sick on the outside at all.
Speaker 3: I don't have any.
Speaker 2: Symptoms, but I don't know if I've got yeah A
Speaker 2: three background problems and things like that. So that's a
Speaker 2: big part of the mystery of Matt And probably a
Speaker 2: big mystery of being Sarah is we get delt a
Speaker 2: hand of cards. Biologically, I don't know if.
Speaker 3: They're good or not.
Speaker 2: But my kids, yeah, it's it's interesting. Yeah, my sticky
Speaker 2: back for my daughters. There's really small observations. But I'm
Speaker 2: a really easy I wake up early in the morning
Speaker 2: very easily, and I could just talk talk talk, and
Speaker 2: at night I can go to bed really late. And
Speaker 2: I've always been like that as a person. And my
Speaker 2: my leg always moves like I'm always moving something.
Speaker 3: And my mum always used.
Speaker 2: To get really annoyed at me, saying you've got a
Speaker 2: d D or something something like you need to go
Speaker 2: to the bathroom, like what you're talking about.
Speaker 3: And there's legs is moving, and my.
Speaker 2: One of my daughters has that, and it's I can see,
Speaker 2: I can just see these weird things come.
Speaker 3: Through like that.
Speaker 1: That is so magical.
Speaker 2: My wife can't wake up early to save herself, really
Speaker 2: like she's so so so struggles not a morning person.
Speaker 3: And one of my daughters is like that.
Speaker 2: So it's very small, small, small observation that I'm seeing
Speaker 2: little things come through as I get older, which freaked me.
Speaker 1: Out do they ask about the Korean side, like, do
Speaker 1: they ever get curious about Korean culture and heritage in
Speaker 1: a way that you're like, I got no answers, dude.
Speaker 3: I know not at the moment. My oldest is six
Speaker 3: and my youngest is three.
Speaker 2: My six year old does know about me being adopted
Speaker 2: because their grandparents are white.
Speaker 3: So they're like, yeah, she's already smart enough to be like,
Speaker 3: it's a.
Speaker 1: Math, it doesn't make the equation, it doesn't make sense.
Speaker 3: She gets sad about it. She's like, oh, I said,
Speaker 3: your birth mom passed you over as a baby to
Speaker 3: your mom and dad. Oh, your little baby. And she's
Speaker 3: sympathetic and empathetic already.
Speaker 2: Toward that, which makes her love her daddy even more,
Speaker 2: which show definitely will have that my sleep as a
Speaker 2: card one day.
Speaker 3: Just remember your daddy.
Speaker 1: That is so special. I can't even imagine the next
Speaker 1: generation of like them not actually being adopted, so not
Speaker 1: having that oh wow, like innate understanding, but then still
Speaker 1: having to explain to them very young what it means
Speaker 1: and why yeah, their parents looks different to their grandparent,
Speaker 1: Like it's so interesting.
Speaker 2: Oh my god. Yeah, the family generation line, the timeline tree,
Speaker 2: it changes that it was all white for the Pursels,
Speaker 2: and then these Asians came in, like these adopted Korea,
Speaker 2: and then Taiwanese people came in, and then all of
Speaker 2: a sudden, the Percell family tree started looking half Asian
Speaker 2: and Corduasian. And there's Asian genetics coming through the Percel
Speaker 2: line now, and say.
Speaker 1: For you cool, Oh my gosh, that's so fascinating. I
Speaker 1: could literally talk to you about this all day. I
Speaker 1: feel like we need to have a catch up, if
Speaker 1: not volume one, two and three of this episode. But
Speaker 1: I'm aware I've already taken an hour of your time,
Speaker 1: So before we wrap up, can you just quickly tell us?
Speaker 1: And thank you so much for sharing so openly, but
Speaker 1: can you just quickly tell us what you've gone on
Speaker 1: to do? I mean, I'm sure like a million things,
Speaker 1: but I want to hear all about the amazing like
Speaker 1: where we can follow you now? You do these amazing,
Speaker 1: amazing talks. You've worked with some fascinating people. You do
Speaker 1: a bit of everything. So what is Matt now?
Speaker 3: Matt's just a dad?
Speaker 2: Who is I've never you know Matt now? Is he
Speaker 2: used to be like too many things, to too many
Speaker 2: industries and now he's I've always been an entrepreneur by spirit,
Speaker 2: and I mean that by a share quick story. When
Speaker 2: I was in year eight, my school said we've got
Speaker 2: to get a boy's care. It's going to cost one
Speaker 2: hundred and twenty bucks. I'm like, great, I'm excited. We
Speaker 2: got to pitch tents, we're going to learn how to
Speaker 2: make a fire, We're going to roll the teachers down
Speaker 2: the hilly.
Speaker 3: So I took the note to my mom said, listen,
Speaker 3: hundred twenty bucks, we're going in two weeks. He's like,
Speaker 3: I can't afford it. I'm like, a under twenty buck,
Speaker 3: you series pay it. So I don't have any money,
Speaker 3: and I've got to borrow it from your dad. I'm
Speaker 3: not going to borrow it from your uncle. I'm like,
Speaker 3: oh no, whatever, Lord, I don't have any money to
Speaker 3: pay you. So I'm like thinking, how the hell can
Speaker 3: I make this happen? So I went to the school
Speaker 3: principal and asked the receptionist, can I meet with the principal?
Speaker 3: What for? What did you do this time? I just
Speaker 3: want to talk about this camp. And I asked for
Speaker 3: a payment plan for my principal stop yeah, and then
Speaker 3: she and then he called my mom.
Speaker 2: He said, let's have a meeting. He said, Matt's raised
Speaker 2: an interesting point. If you can't afford to go to camp,
Speaker 2: if Matt washes the science blocks windows for the week,
Speaker 2: we'll send him to camp. I said, do you give
Speaker 2: me the backing and sponge and I'll do it. So
Speaker 2: I worked my way to the year eight camp. But
Speaker 2: I made it freaking happen.
Speaker 3: So I've always been like that, if I want something,
Speaker 3: tell me costs too much, or find a way.
Speaker 2: And so that's led me to music and help kids
Speaker 2: around Australia for twelve years speaking about my story and
Speaker 2: now and then I'd marketed that whole time since the
Speaker 2: Dawn on MySpace and.
Speaker 3: Og that shows ah.
Speaker 2: And I think my superpower is is I've been able
Speaker 2: to transfer whatever I've learned from anything I've got good
Speaker 2: at into everything I can.
Speaker 3: So many people they learn a skill, say like guitar
Speaker 3: or something, and they just go, that's it. That's just
Speaker 3: for guitar. But I'm able to go.
Speaker 2: Na practicing or the pattern recognition from that can apply
Speaker 2: to making videos or campaigns and standing out.
Speaker 3: So I had to really hustle my whole life to
Speaker 3: get a good gig.
Speaker 2: And now I'm working with some really cool people, like
Speaker 2: some brands and people that I had seen on TV
Speaker 2: or had had on my wall. Even go oh man,
Speaker 2: one day, I'd love to meet that person. And it's
Speaker 2: incredible to be a whisperer in the ease of kings
Speaker 2: and queens. That's my type of thing. Now. I just
Speaker 2: advise a lot of key people and brands where they
Speaker 2: should go and how to position themselves so they can
Speaker 2: be the best they can. And that's what I'm doing
Speaker 2: now do my creative agency and a whole bunch of
Speaker 2: companies that I'm involved with. So I'd never thought I'd
Speaker 2: be a business person. I thought I just was a
Speaker 2: creative person. But you can't just be an artist. And
Speaker 2: it's really hard to be an artist without making it
Speaker 2: into a living and living from being an artist. So
Speaker 2: I had to apply that year eight Matt to the
Speaker 2: art and be like, yes, and that's got me a
Speaker 2: really great life.
Speaker 1: Oh that's amazing. Where can we find out more? If
Speaker 1: people want to follow you and learn about your business,
Speaker 1: well you.
Speaker 3: Can hit to I want you to spree now.
Speaker 2: Just follow me on Instagram Matt Percel Official. I call
Speaker 2: it official because someone stole Matt percell. They had my
Speaker 2: account one time, and I'm like, had to make it
Speaker 2: official something different. So Matt personl official and Matpurso dot
Speaker 2: com and my creative agencies mentored Media.
Speaker 3: So that's the creative agencies that we help people with.
Speaker 1: Amazing and very last question for you. You've already shared
Speaker 1: an incredible one, so you're allowed to use it again.
Speaker 1: What's your favorite quote?
Speaker 3: I think the two quotes, I'll say one is from
Speaker 3: one thing used ten thousand times. So from one thing,
Speaker 3: use ten thousand times.
Speaker 2: So if you've learned one skill, find how you can
Speaker 2: use that and transfer that too ten thousand other uses usages.
Speaker 2: Another quote is whether if you're fourteen or ninety years old,
Speaker 2: you'll never be this young again.
Speaker 1: I love that one. That's so true. Oh thank you
Speaker 1: so much for this chat. This was so interesting and enjoyable,
Speaker 1: and we have to smash some plates again in real
Speaker 1: life soon.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Maybe we can just go to my kitchen or
Speaker 3: your kitchen or.
Speaker 1: My kitchen either. Either works amazing. Bring your kids they
Speaker 1: can help.
Speaker 3: I definitely love it.
Speaker 2: Was that was so I thought so wrongdoing it, but
Speaker 2: so do you know, I'm a psycho though what are
Speaker 2: we doing.
Speaker 1: That's why we get along so well. I mean psychost tonight.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Matt, Thanks Sierah. Oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: this was just so special. I really reflect to this
Speaker 1: level and being adopted. But when you're chatting with someone
Speaker 1: in the same position, you can just explore so much
Speaker 1: more about the experience. I hope you guys enjoyed it
Speaker 1: and found it interesting, and as I said, if you
Speaker 1: have any other questions, I'm super open about it, so
Speaker 1: please feel free to ask. Just send a DM or
Speaker 1: an email as usual as I always ask of you,
Speaker 1: beautiful neighborhood. I would love you to shower him out
Speaker 1: with love and thank him for his time and openness,
Speaker 1: tagging at Matt Purcell Official and the show so we
Speaker 1: can keep growing the neighborhood as far and wide as possible.
Speaker 1: And of course I never ask often enough. I always forget,
Speaker 1: and I forget to do it for other shows. But
Speaker 1: if you have been listening and enjoy what you hear,
Speaker 1: pretty please leave us a rating and a review wherever
Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. I hope you're having an amazing
Speaker 1: week and are seizing your yay