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Speaker 1: I really didn't think, God, are we are business or anything?

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Speaker 1: So I just literally started it for fun. It was

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Speaker 1: kind of cathartic to share mine, and people enjoyed sharing it.

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Speaker 1: And if we can kind of use all of these

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Speaker 1: voices of the women that have come to me to

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Speaker 1: help get change for future women, then that would be

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Speaker 1: the dream. So we're working on that at the moment

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Speaker 1: as well.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to the sees the Yay Podcast. Busy and happy

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Speaker 2: are not the same thing. We too rarely question what

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Speaker 2: makes the heart seeing. We work, then we rest, but

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Speaker 2: rarely we play and often don't realize there's more than

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Speaker 2: one way. So this is the platform to hear and

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Speaker 2: explore the stories of those who found lives They adore,

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Speaker 2: the good, bad and ugly. The best and worst days

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Speaker 2: will bear all the facets of seizing your yay. I'm

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Speaker 2: Sarah Davidson or Spoonful of Sarah, a lawyer turned fu

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Speaker 2: entrepreneur whos wapped the suits and heels to co found

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Speaker 2: matcha Maiden and matcha Milk Bark cz The Ya is

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Speaker 2: a series of conversations on finding a life you love

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Speaker 2: and exploring the self doubt, challenge, joy and fulfillment. Along

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Speaker 2: the way. Hello, lovely neighborhood and heavy International Women's Day.

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Speaker 2: Of course, it should be International Women's Day every day,

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Speaker 2: but I do love that there is a week of

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Speaker 2: celebration set aside for women, supporting women and lifting each

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Speaker 2: other up. So I hope you guys are enjoying some

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Speaker 2: of the celebrations. I must apologize for missing last week's

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Speaker 2: scheduled Yeays of Our Lives episode you might have seen.

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Speaker 2: I ran into a little hiccup and had to squeeze

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Speaker 2: in a last minute surgery, which was a bit of

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Speaker 2: an eightya, So I've been taking it a little bit easier.

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Speaker 2: But the rap episode with and from our in real

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Speaker 2: life events is still coming to you soon, I promise.

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Speaker 2: In the meantime, I couldn't think of a better guest

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Speaker 2: to celebrate all that is wonderful and womanly than the

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Speaker 2: incredible Sophie Walker from Australian Birth Stories. I suspect that

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Speaker 2: many of you listeners are also among the literal millions

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Speaker 2: in the Australian Birth Stories community, But in case you aren't,

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Speaker 2: just yet. It is one of Australia's most successful shows,

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Speaker 2: sharing honors stories of women navigating the journey to motherhood,

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Speaker 2: a space where conversations, education, and a safe space to

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Speaker 2: share had long been missing. I always find it just

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Speaker 2: so alarming how little women often understand about their bodies

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Speaker 2: and cycles and how everything works. And Sophie herself was

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Speaker 2: originally inspired to create her community by her second birth experience,

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Speaker 2: during which she felt unable to make informed decisions and

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Speaker 2: left with significant physical and emotional trauma, which she didn't

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Speaker 2: end up experiencing by the time of her third birth,

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Speaker 2: and she has since shared over three hundred and fifty

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Speaker 2: diverse stories of pregnancy, birth, and postpartum, covering every scenario

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Speaker 2: you could think of, helping so many people feel more

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Speaker 2: informed and empowered to have a positive birth experience. Once

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Speaker 2: you dive into the wild world of childbirth, there is

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Speaker 2: just so much to uncover and learn. My mind has

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Speaker 2: been blown. It's so fascinating. It's almost like if we

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Speaker 2: kind of want to pretend it's not going to happen

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Speaker 2: until it's right on our doorstep. But being informed and

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Speaker 2: educated is how you can have a really positive birthing experience.

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Speaker 2: And there are three hundred and fifty episodes and counting

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Speaker 2: that you can tune into for more of those juicy details,

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Speaker 2: as well as Sophie's brand new book, The Complete Australian

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Speaker 2: Guide to Pregnancy and Birth, which you will also hear

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Speaker 2: about in the episode, and even at our early stage

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Speaker 2: of our journey, it's already been enormously helpful to me

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Speaker 2: in navigating how much information there is to get through here.

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Speaker 2: I wanted to focus more on who Sophie is and

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Speaker 2: the behind the scenes story that led her from master's

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Speaker 2: in public health with no background in media to one

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Speaker 2: of Australia's most successful podcasts. So we'll focus a bit

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Speaker 2: on the story, of course cover some of the scientific

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Speaker 2: and juicier details around childbirth, but I really do hope

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Speaker 2: you enjoy getting to know her a bit more as

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Speaker 2: much as I did. Sophie, Welcome to CZA.

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Speaker 1: Oh thanks so much for having me.

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Speaker 2: This is such an exciting moment. I have listened to

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Speaker 2: your podcast for so long. I've just received your beautiful

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Speaker 2: new book and have just followed what you do so closely,

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Speaker 2: and it's yeah, been wonderful. I'm fangirling right now having

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Speaker 2: you on the show.

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Speaker 1: The feeling's mutual. I've listened to your podcast quite a

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Speaker 1: lot and you've had some incredible guests Gary Vee and

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Speaker 1: a few yeah, through big names on there that I've enjoyed.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, I've been watching you from the sidelines too.

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Speaker 2: Oh the mutual fangirling. It's also funny. I feel like

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Speaker 2: in podcast land, you when you listen to someone so much,

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Speaker 2: you kind of feel that you know them and you

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Speaker 2: know their personality. And I don't feel like this is

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Speaker 2: the first time we've spoken, because I'm like, oh, I

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Speaker 2: hear so all the time.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I know. Yeah, it's an unusual intimacy.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, intimacy it's a good word. It's like they're there

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Speaker 2: for you, spilling your guts on your most vulnerable moments

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Speaker 2: and all your feelings and thoughts. And then yeah, it's

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Speaker 2: beautiful to finally actually sit down with you and chat.

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Speaker 2: And as your book has just come out, how exciting.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, it's been really big couple of years working hard,

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Speaker 1: but you and I were just sharing offline that it's

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Speaker 1: pretty incredible when you work so tirelessly on something and

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Speaker 1: then you see it out in the wild. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: so special in a wild week.

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Speaker 2: I can't even imagine. So I'm very very grateful for

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Speaker 2: you making time. As I know I'm sure your schedule

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Speaker 2: is absolutely jam packed at the moment. But I think

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Speaker 2: one of the reasons I'm so so excited to have

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Speaker 2: you is so many people in your incredible, massive audience

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Speaker 2: that you've grown and beautiful community, would know so much

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Speaker 2: about you, so much about your birth, so much about

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Speaker 2: the way that you interview other people. But I feel

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Speaker 2: like there's not a lot of material or information out

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Speaker 2: there about who you are outside of pregnancy and birth,

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Speaker 2: what you were doing before, all the stuff that I think.

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Speaker 2: I love that, you know, I love Cca because it

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Speaker 2: gives me a platform to remind people that if they

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Speaker 2: at you now, you've got a book, you've got a course,

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Speaker 2: you've got a huge podcast, it's easy to think you've

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Speaker 2: got it made. You always knew this is where you'd

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Speaker 2: end up. But I love reminding people, No, there was

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Speaker 2: a whole life before this. There was a you and

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Speaker 2: childhood who had different goals and dreams, and you know,

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Speaker 2: things go in all different directions. So can you take

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Speaker 2: us back to the very beginning, to very young Sophie,

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Speaker 2: even primary school kind of what were your first things

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Speaker 2: you loved doing, the first careers you thought you wanted,

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Speaker 2: and what you thought your future would look.

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Speaker 1: Like, yeah, it's interesting. I actually, from a really young age,

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Speaker 1: thought maybe I would be a midwife for a nurse.

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Speaker 1: So I wasn't interested in that space. But then I

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Speaker 1: never studied it. So it's an unusual kind of circle

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Speaker 1: of how I got here. But there was kind of

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Speaker 1: always an underlying interest. And ironically, I've always struggled with

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Speaker 1: my wags and things, so I've always been on the

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Speaker 1: bigger side. And in high school I wanted to do

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Speaker 1: pe is like BCE really yeah, but I wanted to

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Speaker 1: do it because I was interested in the anatomy and

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Speaker 1: the physiology side of things. I won't name drop my school,

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Speaker 1: but I said, oh, we don't think pees for you, like,

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Speaker 1: because I wasn't enrolled in any sports or anything. And

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Speaker 1: I feel like going back now, I should volunteer to

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Speaker 1: go back and go Yes, well I did. I wanted

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Speaker 1: to do it as like an underlying subject for university,

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Speaker 1: and it probably would have shown me that I was

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Speaker 1: really interested in this space and might have been different.

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Speaker 1: I hadn't really said that out laud before. But it's interesting.

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Speaker 1: I do think of that. I like, I wonder if

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Speaker 1: that would have changed the course of things. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: so I always interested in that medical space, but yeah,

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Speaker 1: I didn't really pursue it. I don't know why I

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Speaker 1: didn't try and enroll in that. When I finished school,

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Speaker 1: I more or less did an arts degree or a

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Speaker 1: teaching degree just because I wanted to go to Melbourne

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Speaker 1: UNI with all my friends. Not a good way of choosing.

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Speaker 2: A course or a great way of choosing your course. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: well socially it was good.

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Speaker 1: So I studied primary teaching and I did that out

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Speaker 1: of school, and then I was like a bit bored

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Speaker 1: with the course and I ended up doing adding on

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Speaker 1: anthropology and a few in Indonesian would I studied at school,

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Speaker 1: so I tried to kind of expand that. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: came to where I am in a very strange fashion.

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Speaker 1: Then I dropped out of UNIE, so I didn't finish

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Speaker 1: my teaching degree, and eventually went back and did a

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Speaker 1: Bachelor of Health Science and International Relations with the idea

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Speaker 1: of perhaps working for an NGO life ox FAM and

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Speaker 1: helping do kind of aid work overseas. That's where I

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Speaker 1: sort of came around to it eventually. And I never

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Speaker 1: really worked in that either.

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Speaker 2: See I find this part so fascinating. It seems to

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Speaker 2: be and of course, Like understandably it's the part that

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Speaker 2: gets the least airtime in people's stories. But I feel

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Speaker 2: like it's the part that people who haven't found their

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Speaker 2: thing or their yay, or their joy or their purpose

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Speaker 2: just yet. It's the thing that's the most reassuring to

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Speaker 2: be Like, no, No, there was a Sophie who was like,

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Speaker 2: I don't know what I'm doing. I'm going to choose

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Speaker 2: just because my friends are there, Like who am I?

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Speaker 2: I don't know where I want to be. And it's

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Speaker 2: interesting that now those dots kind of connect, like looking

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Speaker 2: back at that common theme of anatomy and health and

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Speaker 2: health sciences, but that it just doesn't always present itself

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Speaker 2: in the way you expect straight away. Yeah, on the

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Speaker 2: way forward, you have to trust that later looking backwards,

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Speaker 2: it will all make sense.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and all the experiences you can draw on from

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Speaker 1: all the different random jobs you've done. I went to

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Speaker 1: London and I thought, oh, maybe I can pick up

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Speaker 1: some kind of work working for water aid or something

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Speaker 1: and use my qualifications there. But that was really hard

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Speaker 1: and competitive to land. And I did do a bit

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Speaker 1: of volunteer work at MSF medicines.

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Speaker 2: And doctors of that borders amazing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I got my toe in the water there, but

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Speaker 1: then we ended up sort of just traveling and coming

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Speaker 1: back and I came back from out sort of two

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Speaker 1: and a half years in London thinking I think I

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Speaker 1: need to extend to my studies. So that's when I

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Speaker 1: did a master's in public health and really kind of

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Speaker 1: got right into women's health.

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Speaker 2: Right. So, between finishing school and then starting that master's,

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Speaker 2: did you have what you would have said at the time,

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Speaker 2: is your career path? Like, were you aiming for something

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Speaker 2: in particular or you were still just kind of trying

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Speaker 2: to work out what your skills could look like in

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Speaker 2: the workforce somehow, I think, still.

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Speaker 1: Just exploring things. I love studying, and then people saying

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Speaker 1: you should do a PhD now with all this kind

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Speaker 1: of birth work, and I was like, should I know,

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Speaker 1: I'm still playing off all these other random courses that

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Speaker 1: I've got and masters aren't cheap. Oh my god. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: But I just really enjoyed the learning and really just

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Speaker 1: expanding my mind and things. And even after my masters,

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Speaker 1: I wasn't certain, Okay, this is what I want to do,

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Speaker 1: and I applied for a real mixed variety of jobs

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Speaker 1: and ended up working in cancer research, so women's health

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Speaker 1: and cancer, and yeah, following longitudinal studies with breast cancer

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Speaker 1: and families with Braca one and Bracker two genes. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: so I kind of got more research experience than of

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Speaker 1: interviewing people, and all those skills I think have kind

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Speaker 1: of really helped in the podcast, which I never kind

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Speaker 1: of had visioned. Wasn't part of the manifestation.

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Speaker 2: Plan a vision board, No, No, it wasn't on there.

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Speaker 2: But that's what I love as well, because I think

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Speaker 2: you often lament, you know, if you haven't found a

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Speaker 2: clear pathway by a certain age, we often sort of think, oh, well,

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Speaker 2: all that was a waste of time because it didn't

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Speaker 2: lead me to X, or it didn't I didn't become blah.

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Speaker 2: But I think actually, if you learn something, nothing's ever

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Speaker 2: a waste. It will always translate in a way, perhaps

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Speaker 2: not the way you thought, but it turns out that podcasting,

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Speaker 2: all of those skills have been relevant to you and

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Speaker 2: research and understanding women's health and having a background knowledge

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Speaker 2: in science. So when was it that you actually thought

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Speaker 2: I have absolutely an idea what podcasting is. I know,

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Speaker 2: back in twenty seventeen when you started, I think I

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Speaker 2: started maybe a year after you, and it was still

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Speaker 2: very primitive and a very different environment, Like it was

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Speaker 2: kind of like AM radio. We were all like what, Like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: what is that?

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Speaker 1: So?

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Speaker 2: How did that come into your mind? Is like a forum.

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Speaker 1: I was working at that stage at the Cancer Council

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Speaker 1: and I'd had my first so I've got three boys,

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Speaker 1: and i'd had two boys, and then I went back

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Speaker 1: to work part time and I was doing cancer research again,

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Speaker 1: and we were doing a lot of packing envelopes and things.

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Speaker 1: And I had a good girlfriend and we used to

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Speaker 1: chat about podcasts we were listening to. And she was Canadian,

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Speaker 1: so she listened to a lot of kind of Canadian

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Speaker 1: and American ones, and I was listening to a lot

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Speaker 1: of American ones. And she was like, you should make

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Speaker 1: your own one because you love listening to birth related ones.

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Speaker 1: Why don't you make your own? And we sort of

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Speaker 1: joke too. Imagine if one day people are sending you

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Speaker 1: prams and you'll be like one of those birth influences.

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Speaker 1: So now it gives half an hour message. I'm like, yes,

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Speaker 1: it's here. The pram literally came, but it has arrived.

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Speaker 1: I just followed, Yeah, as you said, there was like,

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Speaker 1: not much going on now. I feel like there's so

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Speaker 1: many courses on how to start a podcast, but I

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Speaker 1: just followed a YouTube video free one on like do this,

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Speaker 1: then do this, and I'm not techie. It's still not techie,

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Speaker 1: and I just followed the steps and set it up

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Speaker 1: and yeah, Mum listened, and my sister listened. She's the

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Speaker 1: second guest. And then I just badged friends to come on,

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Speaker 1: like quick share your birth story. I know it's important

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Speaker 1: to keep the momenttor, I can't like miss a week

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Speaker 1: even though no one was listening. That's like rule number

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Speaker 1: six in the steps.

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Speaker 2: So in my free video that I watched on YouTube,

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Speaker 2: that's step six.

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Speaker 1: And even then I thought, well, this is fun. I

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Speaker 1: really didn't think it'll be a business or anything. So

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Speaker 1: I just literally started it for fun. It was kind

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Speaker 1: of cathartic to share mine, and people enjoyed sharing it.

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Speaker 1: And then I thought, okay, I need to get a

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Speaker 1: little bit strategic to get more listeners. So then I

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Speaker 1: asked people that I followed on Instagram that were kind

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Speaker 1: of in the motherhood space and had a bit of

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Speaker 1: a bigger following, and when they all just said yes,

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Speaker 1: everyone was keen to share, and I was a nobody,

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Speaker 1: and they just obviously thought, oh, that's a nice idea,

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Speaker 1: I'll do that, and then they would share it on

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Speaker 1: their platforms and say, oh, they did my podcast. And

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Speaker 1: that's how I really grew quickly, because I'd sort of

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Speaker 1: gained all of their followers who were curious about the

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Speaker 1: backstory of their birth. Instagram was really easy to use

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Speaker 1: back there. If you had a follower, they saw what

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Speaker 1: you posted. There's no tricks algorithms.

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Speaker 2: Remember those Remember those days? Oh I missed those days

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Speaker 2: a suple of times.

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Speaker 1: Now you have to dance and point to get anyone's attention.

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Speaker 2: Oh the hoops you have to jump through these days.

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Speaker 2: But I also love that.

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Speaker 1: But that's how it grew so quickly.

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Speaker 2: Really, I heard you on I can't remember. I think

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Speaker 2: it was. I mean now, it's still an older episode

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Speaker 2: compared to how far you've come now, but it was

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Speaker 2: I think the episode where you talk about Attie's birth,

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Speaker 2: your third son, and it was you saying, oh, I'm

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Speaker 2: here to talk about Otti. I don't want to go

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Speaker 2: back and listen to episode one of me talking about

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Speaker 2: one of my other births because I would cringe too

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Speaker 2: much if I went back to listen to episode one.

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Speaker 2: But I always say, if you don't cringe it your

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Speaker 2: first product, then you're not doing it right. Like you're

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Speaker 2: meant to kind of grow so much that very quickly

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Speaker 2: you look back and go, ill, that's awful, But that's

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Speaker 2: kind of it means you've come a really long way.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you probably feel as well. People say I've listened

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Speaker 1: to every episode and I'm like, oh, not the early ones.

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Speaker 2: And I'm like the audio quality. But I also can't

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Speaker 2: bring myself to go back and fix them either, because

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Speaker 2: I'm like, I just don't want to know.

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Speaker 1: Really weird.

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Speaker 2: But I think what's quite similar in our journeys with

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Speaker 2: our podcast is that sometimes it's better that you don't

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Speaker 2: plan it to become a business or to become this

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Speaker 2: huge community, because then it's not as scary. Then you

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Speaker 2: just do things intuitively. You make decisions based on this

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Speaker 2: episode needs to be good, then episode two needs to

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Speaker 2: be good. It's not like what am I going to

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Speaker 2: do an episode two hundred. I need a studio, I

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Speaker 2: need all these things. I sometimes think it's often use

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Speaker 2: that quote you don't have to see the whole staircase.

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Speaker 2: In fact, you could never have predicted the staircase. You've

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Speaker 2: climbed and are at the top off now, but you

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Speaker 2: just have to do the first step. You just do

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Speaker 2: one episode, then two. Is that kind of how you

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Speaker 2: approached it mentally as well?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And then the time commitment at that stage two

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Speaker 1: was just like, Okay, it takes an hour to record.

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Speaker 1: Back then, it probably took me an hour to edit

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Speaker 1: and put together, and it was two hours out of

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Speaker 1: my week and then it was done and dusted, Which

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Speaker 1: is funny. Now I think about us think fondly back

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Speaker 1: those times because I work full time now and I'm like, oh,

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Speaker 1: remember when it used to just be a two hour commitment.

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Speaker 1: Now it's busy in a good way, but just very different. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: how things change and the pressures and the commitments. You've

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Speaker 1: got staff and then I've got sponsors and things like that.

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Speaker 1: So you can't just kind of casually take a week

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Speaker 1: off if you're not in the mood. Yeah, things have

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Speaker 1: to continue. People start adding you, like what happened? It's

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Speaker 1: still clock on Monday, and normally I've listened rude, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so rude.

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Speaker 2: So I'm so excited to get into more of the

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Speaker 2: actual content of the podcast, your births, the book that's

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Speaker 2: coming out, and how it all ties together, but just

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Speaker 2: quickly before we do that. A big thing we talk

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Speaker 2: about on CZA is that it's particularly at the beginning

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Speaker 2: of an idea, how much self doubt and comparison and

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Speaker 2: fear can stop you even starting, or once you start,

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Speaker 2: can really hamper or hinder your ability to push it

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Speaker 2: forward and allow your idea to blossom into what obviously

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Speaker 2: you've seen it to become. How did that play for

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Speaker 2: you at the beginning, Like you were putting yourself out

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Speaker 2: there in an industry where no one was really doing it.

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Speaker 2: People didn't really understand what podcasting was. It's also a

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Speaker 2: subject matter that's quite vulnerable and back then much more stigmatized.

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Speaker 2: It's even now hard to get those conversations going, which

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Speaker 2: is why you've done so well, because we're all so

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Speaker 2: desperate for information. But back then where you sort of

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Speaker 2: like people are going to judge me, like.

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Speaker 1: Ugh, yeah, I don't know. I just approached like the

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Speaker 1: first lot of brands, and when I reached out and

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Speaker 1: then they weren't familiar with podcasting, which is totally different

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Speaker 1: to nowadays. I feel like most brands are really like

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Speaker 1: use that as it's one of their pillars of their marketing.

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Speaker 1: But back then, I'm like, have to kind of break

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Speaker 1: it down. This is what a podcast is, and this

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Speaker 1: is how they listen, and what you need to do

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Speaker 1: is give me a code and I'll put the code

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Speaker 1: in the ad and then hopefully they'll use the code

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Speaker 1: to buy it. Like I felt like I was really

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Speaker 1: breaking it down. And it's funny because a lot of

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Speaker 1: those brands who initially I said, oh, just for eighty dollars,

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Speaker 1: do you want to have a sixty seven AD? Then

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Speaker 1: and now they'd paid a lot more and they're still

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Speaker 1: with me over sort of six years. So it proved

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Speaker 1: itself and I think I kept the price barrier really low,

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Speaker 1: so it was an experiment for us both. But I

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Speaker 1: think you hear about people kind of just having a

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Speaker 1: business idea and kind of dropping everything and jumping in.

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Speaker 1: There seems to be sort of two schools of people.

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Speaker 1: I feel like there's people that just go, I'm one

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Speaker 1: hundred percent invested, I'm going to take a leap of

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Speaker 1: faith and hopefully it works. Whereas I decided to wait

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Speaker 1: till the podcast was making the same revenue I was

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Speaker 1: making it My part time job, and I was sort

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Speaker 1: of doing podcast stuff in my lunch breaks because I

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Speaker 1: interviewed people for work. I was in soundproof rooms and

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Speaker 1: I was like, could I do an interview with my

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Speaker 1: lunch breaking like room three if I rent it out?

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Speaker 1: And then I thought, I think I'm too distracted.

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Speaker 2: It's just so clever.

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Speaker 1: I know, I still would like access to those rooms,

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Speaker 1: but yeah, No, I got to a point where I

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Speaker 1: thought it's less of a risk. And I also my

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Speaker 1: husband was working full time, so we relied mostly on

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Speaker 1: his income, so it wasn't kind of too stressful in

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Speaker 1: that sense. And I thought, worst case scenario, if it

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Speaker 1: doesn't work out or I don't enjoy it, then I'll

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Speaker 1: just pick up a part time job again. Yeah, so

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Speaker 1: it didn't feel too scary and overwhelming. But then because

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Speaker 1: I realized, oh, I've got more time to kind of

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Speaker 1: do online courses and invest and really think about how

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Speaker 1: to grow the business. Then having that extra time just

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Speaker 1: meant it kind of. Yeah, it really sort of snowballed

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Speaker 1: into something bigger quite quickly.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I love that dividing those two schools of thought

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Speaker 2: because I talk about that often, and I think I

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Speaker 2: started in the first school of like rip the band aid,

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Speaker 2: like you're never going to know if you don't try.

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Speaker 2: But then I realized in hindsight, I actually was in

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Speaker 2: the second camp, the same as you like, keep both

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Speaker 2: going as long as you can, because the more you're

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Speaker 2: making the jump smaller and smaller and managing the risk

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Speaker 2: more and more as time goes on. So it's much

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Speaker 2: easier to make a jump to something that's already proven

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Speaker 2: itself than it is to just go blindly, even though

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Speaker 2: both have their place in different scenarios, but a.

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Speaker 1: Valid yeah, yeah, yeah. It just depends on your personality

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Speaker 1: type and you whether you've got a mortgage I guess.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and what the other person's income is doing.

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Speaker 2: There's so many factors, very personalized, yeah, exactly. So one

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Speaker 2: of the underlying things that I've heard you talk about,

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Speaker 2: particularly now with the release of the book, but also

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Speaker 2: in starting the podcast is the fact that you know,

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Speaker 2: here in Australia, a baby is born every minute and

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Speaker 2: forty five seconds, but one in three women come away

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Speaker 2: from their birth experience feeling traumatized, which is quite an

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Speaker 2: alarming statistic. And the common theme in your over three

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Speaker 2: hundred episodes now is always people saying in relation to

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Speaker 2: their first birth, no one tells you I didn't know this,

434
00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:35,359
Speaker 2: No one tells you this is going to happen. No

435
00:20:35,359 --> 00:20:37,560
Speaker 2: one's heard of a tens machine. No one knows about

436
00:20:38,080 --> 00:20:41,960
Speaker 2: like the shakes or these fundamentally basic things that any

437
00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:44,200
Speaker 2: other mother could pass on to you. There's never been

438
00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:47,200
Speaker 2: a hub to learn about that, and that is what

439
00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:51,640
Speaker 2: you've so beautifully created. So can you talk to us

440
00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:55,400
Speaker 2: about how your experience is being different with your three

441
00:20:55,440 --> 00:20:59,800
Speaker 2: berths and then now three hundred plus women sharing their experiences,

442
00:20:59,840 --> 00:21:02,800
Speaker 2: like how Australian Birth Stories has become this hub for

443
00:21:02,840 --> 00:21:04,800
Speaker 2: that and why you think it's so important.

444
00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:07,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I would definitely consider myself that one

445
00:21:07,760 --> 00:21:10,280
Speaker 1: in three in my first birth experience as well. So

446
00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:13,439
Speaker 1: that labor in a nutshell was sort of thirty six hours,

447
00:21:13,480 --> 00:21:17,760
Speaker 1: and at about thirty hours in, yeah, I was like, oh, well,

448
00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:19,680
Speaker 1: I've tried all the things that I'd planned to try,

449
00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:22,520
Speaker 1: and I went in really confident, like ready for the challenge.

450
00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:25,960
Speaker 1: And then I got stuck at five centimeters let's say,

451
00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:28,800
Speaker 1: stuck in adverted commas. But I didn't progress past five

452
00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:32,040
Speaker 1: centimeters after laboring for so long, I was like, oh, well,

453
00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:34,520
Speaker 1: I've done everything. I don't care anymore. I'm I'm not

454
00:21:34,600 --> 00:21:37,080
Speaker 1: interested in this. Somebody get this baby out.

455
00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:39,439
Speaker 2: I'm done. Basically, guys wrapped up.

456
00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:42,440
Speaker 1: Now I'll have the epi durol and then you guys

457
00:21:42,440 --> 00:21:44,679
Speaker 1: sort it out. That's kind of how I felt in

458
00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:45,320
Speaker 1: that moment.

459
00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:46,840
Speaker 2: Fair fair enough.

460
00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:50,000
Speaker 1: My lovely husband was like you sure, remember you said

461
00:21:50,040 --> 00:21:52,080
Speaker 1: like you don't really want to have the epidriol. It's like,

462
00:21:52,119 --> 00:21:57,639
Speaker 1: get mom, mum, I definitely want the epidriol. So so

463
00:21:57,800 --> 00:22:01,439
Speaker 1: after that experience, I kind of definitely wanted more children

464
00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:03,360
Speaker 1: and I wanted to do birth again. But I thought,

465
00:22:03,359 --> 00:22:06,280
Speaker 1: all right, something was missing or something went wrong for

466
00:22:06,359 --> 00:22:08,639
Speaker 1: me in that first berth, What can I do to

467
00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:11,880
Speaker 1: make things easier or to make myself feel more confident

468
00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:14,520
Speaker 1: going into this second one. And the big difference for

469
00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:16,840
Speaker 1: me is I did just binge and consume as many

470
00:22:16,840 --> 00:22:19,879
Speaker 1: birth stories as I could, and I really think that

471
00:22:19,960 --> 00:22:24,040
Speaker 1: I got an understanding of what Readempcy is lovely duller

472
00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:26,600
Speaker 1: and birth worker, and she's an author of several books.

473
00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:29,320
Speaker 1: She talks about it as a crisis of confidence that

474
00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:31,320
Speaker 1: you naturally get to a point in labor where you

475
00:22:31,359 --> 00:22:33,960
Speaker 1: think I cannot do this and it's usually kind of

476
00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:37,639
Speaker 1: around transition. So like most things in life, there's a

477
00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:41,040
Speaker 1: mental component. You have to have tools in your mental

478
00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:44,159
Speaker 1: kit ready to go for when that moment arises. And

479
00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:46,320
Speaker 1: I feel like I didn't have those In my first birth.

480
00:22:46,359 --> 00:22:47,960
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, well, I wanted a drug free

481
00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:50,280
Speaker 1: birth and it's not working out, so I haven't got

482
00:22:50,280 --> 00:22:53,840
Speaker 1: any other plan. Whereas I went into the second thinking, Okay,

483
00:22:54,119 --> 00:22:55,840
Speaker 1: if it gets to a point where I do feel

484
00:22:55,920 --> 00:22:57,760
Speaker 1: like I want an epidural, then I want to try

485
00:22:57,760 --> 00:22:59,479
Speaker 1: and use the pinup ball, and I want to try

486
00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:01,760
Speaker 1: and stay as mobile, and I want to have like

487
00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:03,800
Speaker 1: the lowest dose of the epidural. And I had a

488
00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:07,160
Speaker 1: better understanding of all the options so that I could

489
00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:11,120
Speaker 1: make a better informed choice going in. And thankfully that

490
00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:15,040
Speaker 1: baby Louis was a kilo smaller than my first. My

491
00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:17,600
Speaker 1: first was four point four kilos, so he was the unit,

492
00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:20,840
Speaker 1: so I think he was a smaller baby, and i'd

493
00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:24,480
Speaker 1: birth before, and I was also just really relaxed, and

494
00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:27,080
Speaker 1: I'd also learn a lot more about the physiology of birth,

495
00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:30,120
Speaker 1: and rather than resisting the contractions, I moved into them

496
00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:32,480
Speaker 1: and I kind of went with the birth process, which

497
00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:35,040
Speaker 1: I think was quite different to the first time, and

498
00:23:35,359 --> 00:23:38,240
Speaker 1: his labor was five hours and I didn't need any

499
00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:40,760
Speaker 1: assistance in that birth, and it was pretty dreamy. He

500
00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:43,280
Speaker 1: was my best birth. Yeah, so I felt really inspired

501
00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:45,720
Speaker 1: by that, and I really felt like education and listening

502
00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:49,879
Speaker 1: to stories was the main difference that really empowered me

503
00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:52,199
Speaker 1: for that experience. So I thought, if I can do

504
00:23:52,320 --> 00:23:55,040
Speaker 1: that just for one woman, then that would be amazing.

505
00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:58,600
Speaker 1: So that's kind of how it all came to be.

506
00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:00,800
Speaker 1: And I mean, yeah, those numbers haven't changed for a

507
00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:04,280
Speaker 1: long time. One in three, so there's over three hundred

508
00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:07,720
Speaker 1: thousand berths in Australia each year and I'm definitely not

509
00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:09,840
Speaker 1: reaching all of those women with the podcast, but that

510
00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:13,840
Speaker 1: would be the dreams. And I know, I know there's

511
00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:16,119
Speaker 1: people like yourself who said, I'm listening now and I

512
00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:18,600
Speaker 1: know you're not pregnant and you're just preparing yourself. And

513
00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:21,879
Speaker 1: the dream is that people will listen prior to conceiving

514
00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:25,280
Speaker 1: and really have a much greater understanding of the birth

515
00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:28,240
Speaker 1: process and then have hopefully have much better outcomes.

516
00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:31,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's she's going to kill me for saying this,

517
00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:34,080
Speaker 2: but a good friend of the podcast shout out to

518
00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:36,480
Speaker 2: Lauren Harny is one of our dear friends. Has been

519
00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:38,679
Speaker 2: listening to your show since I think she was a

520
00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:42,760
Speaker 2: teenager when she first started, and she's fascinated with birth stories.

521
00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:46,879
Speaker 2: She's always been obsessed with everything fertility, conception, childbirth. Like

522
00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:49,439
Speaker 2: she sent me when I first started listening, which was

523
00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:51,800
Speaker 2: ages ago, when we were first even thinking about coming

524
00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:54,920
Speaker 2: off the pill. She made me a playlist of your

525
00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:58,720
Speaker 2: show episodes to watch the top in order. Yeah, I'll

526
00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:00,639
Speaker 2: send them to you. And then I was with her

527
00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:02,760
Speaker 2: on the weekend and she grabbed the book off me

528
00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:04,280
Speaker 2: and was like, no, I want to read it. She's

529
00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:06,119
Speaker 2: off in a corner. So she's your biggest fan, and

530
00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:10,400
Speaker 2: she like a decade before she's even thought about conception

531
00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:14,000
Speaker 2: and fertility and children, she was already a massive, massive fan.

532
00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:16,240
Speaker 2: And I think a lot of the millions and millions

533
00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:18,920
Speaker 2: of downloads are probably all her from her IP address.

534
00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:24,160
Speaker 2: Just saying, but I'd be interested to know. What's beautiful

535
00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:26,320
Speaker 2: about the show is that you have covered you know,

536
00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:28,720
Speaker 2: you and your sister and people in your network. And

537
00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:30,400
Speaker 2: then on the other end of the spectrum, a lot

538
00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:32,840
Speaker 2: of really well known names who haven't had a forum

539
00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:35,640
Speaker 2: like I know Rosalie step Smith. They're friends of ours

540
00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:39,239
Speaker 2: and they've never had anywhere to put that information, all

541
00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:41,800
Speaker 2: those conversations, and we've never had anywhere to listen to them.

542
00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:45,960
Speaker 2: But you also cover the whole spectrum from home births

543
00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:49,600
Speaker 2: to hospital birth, to induction, to IVF to same sex couples,

544
00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:53,520
Speaker 2: Like you've covered so much for you, do you have

545
00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:56,320
Speaker 2: like a this is the gateway drug to Australian birth stories?

546
00:25:56,359 --> 00:25:59,840
Speaker 2: These are the first three or four or five episodes,

547
00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:02,040
Speaker 2: your favorites that you're most proud of. Are there any

548
00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:03,360
Speaker 2: that stand out to you a lot?

549
00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:06,320
Speaker 1: Yeah? I do. It's a bit like children, though you

550
00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:09,359
Speaker 1: can't kind of have your favorite, Like there's so many

551
00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:12,719
Speaker 1: great episodes. I do often recommend if people are just

552
00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:15,359
Speaker 1: choosing one to begin with, to listen to Jodie's which

553
00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:18,119
Speaker 1: is episode one oh five, And she is the co

554
00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:21,200
Speaker 1: author of the book, but she's she gives her her

555
00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:24,520
Speaker 1: four birth stories, and she's also her background. She's a

556
00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:28,000
Speaker 1: yoga teacher and she demonstrates kind of breathing and exercises

557
00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:31,119
Speaker 1: in how she used her body in her berths, and

558
00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:34,040
Speaker 1: I think people kind of come away feeling really inspired

559
00:26:34,119 --> 00:26:38,280
Speaker 1: and with tangible tools to use in their birth, so

560
00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:41,560
Speaker 1: I know that one gets a lot of playing. I mean,

561
00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:43,639
Speaker 1: I love people to listen to all the episodes, but

562
00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:45,760
Speaker 1: we did decide to make a blog just of like

563
00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:49,280
Speaker 1: five positive birth experiences to kind of get you to

564
00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:51,960
Speaker 1: start you off, and then I encourage everyone to listen

565
00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:54,119
Speaker 1: to all the different stories so they get like a

566
00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:57,160
Speaker 1: really good picture of all the different things that can unfold.

567
00:26:57,440 --> 00:26:59,439
Speaker 1: And I should also say, like, I don't think that

568
00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:02,280
Speaker 1: edge and listening to birth stories is the answer to

569
00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:05,119
Speaker 1: reducing birth trauma. I think it's a contributing factor, but

570
00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:07,480
Speaker 1: I mean there's a lot of systemic change that needs

571
00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:09,680
Speaker 1: to happen in like access to care and the way

572
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:12,480
Speaker 1: that the hospital's run. And so I'm not naive to think,

573
00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:14,480
Speaker 1: you know, just listen to these birth stories and we'll

574
00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:17,440
Speaker 1: all have a perfect birth. There's a lot of different components,

575
00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:19,880
Speaker 1: but I think it can have a really big difference.

576
00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:23,639
Speaker 2: Definitely, even just exposure to the terminology and options, I

577
00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:26,040
Speaker 2: think is that's a huge starting point that a lot

578
00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:27,919
Speaker 2: of people would go in blind, not even knowing what

579
00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:30,480
Speaker 2: to research, and also the different options that you have.

580
00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:33,160
Speaker 2: I think even in the first couple of episodes, I'd

581
00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:34,760
Speaker 2: listened to. I was like, oh wow, I kind of

582
00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:38,080
Speaker 2: understand the structure of birthing a little bit more. I've

583
00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:40,080
Speaker 2: read somewhere that you have like a waiting list of

584
00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:42,359
Speaker 2: like five thousand women or something like that.

585
00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:44,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's probably more than that.

586
00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:49,080
Speaker 2: Now, Yeah, that's insane. How do you choose? Is it

587
00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:52,040
Speaker 2: you know that there are birth scenarios you haven't covered

588
00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:55,080
Speaker 2: and you'd like to fill that gap. Is it because

589
00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:57,320
Speaker 2: you haven't done a same sex couple in a couple

590
00:27:57,359 --> 00:27:58,960
Speaker 2: of episodes and you want to, like, how do you

591
00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:02,359
Speaker 2: kind of balance out the coverage and also the coverage

592
00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:05,560
Speaker 2: between positive and challenging, because that's a hard part of

593
00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:06,520
Speaker 2: education as well.

594
00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:09,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's so many things when I'm drawing it out,

595
00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:12,440
Speaker 1: and yeah, as you say, there's no shortage of content.

596
00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:16,119
Speaker 1: So I all the applications go into a spreadsheet and

597
00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:18,479
Speaker 1: then I'm able to then break it down and like

598
00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:20,639
Speaker 1: I can literally think, okay, we need to do a

599
00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:24,480
Speaker 1: rural woman who's had a vback, who has an Asian background,

600
00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:27,119
Speaker 1: who you know, and then I can find that, like

601
00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:29,920
Speaker 1: I can categorize and find something relevant. And I used

602
00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:32,239
Speaker 1: to find that stuff hard initially because I was like, well,

603
00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:33,920
Speaker 1: I feel like all women are the same and we're

604
00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:36,520
Speaker 1: all birthing and things like that. But race has been

605
00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:38,960
Speaker 1: a new kind of component for me to look at,

606
00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:41,840
Speaker 1: and that's probably came around more so in like Black

607
00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:44,160
Speaker 1: Lives Matter and things like that. And I thought, what

608
00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:47,000
Speaker 1: am I doing in my business that could be seen

609
00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:50,959
Speaker 1: to be discriminating? And I wasn't even asking on those forms.

610
00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:54,280
Speaker 1: So I think about or two thirds of the people

611
00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:58,040
Speaker 1: in that list, I don't know their background, and I thought, well,

612
00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:00,680
Speaker 1: because it didn't feel relevant to me. But yeah, I mean,

613
00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:03,760
Speaker 1: my husband's Fijian and he's so he's dark, and my

614
00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:06,400
Speaker 1: kids are dark and things like that, and I kind

615
00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:08,880
Speaker 1: of think, well, how does that influence the birth space

616
00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:11,960
Speaker 1: and we all disbirthing women. But I've come to really

617
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:14,560
Speaker 1: acknowledge that that's not the case. And if you don't

618
00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:17,200
Speaker 1: see yourself in social media and in the stories and stuff,

619
00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:19,720
Speaker 1: then you don't feel a sense of belonging. And there's

620
00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:22,360
Speaker 1: also a lot of I mean, there's cultural differences and

621
00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:26,040
Speaker 1: practices we can all learn from, but there's also discrimination

622
00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:28,720
Speaker 1: and we need to kind of acknowledge that happens in

623
00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:30,640
Speaker 1: the birth space as well. So I've learned to kind

624
00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:34,000
Speaker 1: of then incorporate that as another element. So I feel

625
00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:35,920
Speaker 1: like there's about six things I look for when I'm

626
00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:39,719
Speaker 1: trying to balance out the stories. And Jodie reads all

627
00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:42,000
Speaker 1: the episodes and writes the show notes, and so she's

628
00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:43,960
Speaker 1: often like, you know what we haven't done for a while,

629
00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:45,680
Speaker 1: We need to do an IVF with her such and

630
00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:48,520
Speaker 1: such with such, just like a shopping list, and then

631
00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:51,600
Speaker 1: we try and find the most appropriate story. And then

632
00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:54,560
Speaker 1: I'm also just sent dms like all throughout the day,

633
00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:56,800
Speaker 1: and people tell me interesting stories and send me pictures

634
00:29:56,800 --> 00:29:58,520
Speaker 1: and I'm like, oh, I just want to know why.

635
00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:02,680
Speaker 1: Sometimes sometimes I'm like, what are you doing tomorrow? So

636
00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:04,280
Speaker 1: this is a little bit of that involved to you,

637
00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:06,200
Speaker 1: And now my dms are probably going to be full.

638
00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:08,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know, I'm like to if you want me

639
00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:09,800
Speaker 2: to cut that out, lady, you can totally tell me.

640
00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:14,200
Speaker 1: But I love it, so I don't get bored of it.

641
00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:16,560
Speaker 1: So I'm still hungry to hear all the stories.

642
00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:19,320
Speaker 2: It's so I mean, even in your own three birth stories,

643
00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:22,120
Speaker 2: you can see that there's just no common theme or

644
00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:25,200
Speaker 2: similar experience or ability to predict. So I can imagine

645
00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:27,640
Speaker 2: you'd never get bored because the stories would change so much.

646
00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:30,080
Speaker 2: I noticed there's also a really beautiful section on birthing

647
00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:33,280
Speaker 2: on Country, Like you've acknowledged the sort of different experiences

648
00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:37,160
Speaker 2: and different circumstances that people give birth in, which either

649
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:40,400
Speaker 2: because people get to see themselves reflected in your content,

650
00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:43,240
Speaker 2: that's beautiful, but also so people who aren't from those

651
00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:47,240
Speaker 2: minorities or groups can understand and learn more about the

652
00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:50,960
Speaker 2: way that different people birth, different trends and cultures and practices.

653
00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:55,000
Speaker 2: I think that's also really beautiful. Is there any dream

654
00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:57,840
Speaker 2: guest like in the universe that if you could have

655
00:30:57,920 --> 00:30:59,520
Speaker 2: them tell their birth story you'd want to know?

656
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:02,160
Speaker 1: I always thought it'd be fun to do Sinta ad

657
00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:06,440
Speaker 1: and then like worked and had her baby, But I

658
00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:08,920
Speaker 1: feel like she'd probably keep that private because her whole

659
00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:11,760
Speaker 1: life was under the spotlight. But I'm curious for that one.

660
00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:14,360
Speaker 1: And I also I'm now I'm not going to remember

661
00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:18,360
Speaker 1: her name. I think it's Jana the actress austraan actress

662
00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:22,440
Speaker 1: who's in The Handmaid's Tale. She was pregnant while filming,

663
00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:24,320
Speaker 1: and I thought, well, that would have been such a

664
00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:30,760
Speaker 1: mind trick to be. Yeah, so I was, But I

665
00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:32,440
Speaker 1: did used to always think I wouldn't it be great

666
00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:34,480
Speaker 1: to have Zoe Foster Blake and I have had the

667
00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:37,240
Speaker 1: privilege of Jane Zoe, so that was nice.

668
00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:39,800
Speaker 2: You're like, I've already kicked all my goals. What do

669
00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:40,280
Speaker 2: I do now?

670
00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:43,680
Speaker 1: Yeah? But then, and in all honesty, a lot of

671
00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:47,320
Speaker 1: the just everyday people with no following have these incredible tales,

672
00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:49,640
Speaker 1: and some people just have a real gift of telling

673
00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:52,280
Speaker 1: it as well. So sometimes I start an interview with

674
00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:54,120
Speaker 1: someone I know nothing about and I think, oh, this

675
00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:56,520
Speaker 1: is going to be a really good one. So that's

676
00:31:56,560 --> 00:31:57,160
Speaker 1: nice as well.

677
00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:00,000
Speaker 2: My personal request, if you can ever make it happen

678
00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:03,720
Speaker 2: is a royal because we'll never know. I'm sure they'll

679
00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:06,080
Speaker 2: never say yes because they're not allowed to. But I

680
00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:10,520
Speaker 2: would just love just to know the protocol around, like

681
00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:14,840
Speaker 2: who's allowed in there, Like just especially if they're in

682
00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:16,520
Speaker 2: line for the throw, Like I feel like all of

683
00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:19,480
Speaker 2: that stuff is not documented anywhere, and it would be

684
00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:24,640
Speaker 2: so interesting on the list. Yeah, just flicker a little

685
00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:27,440
Speaker 2: DM be like, Hey, I've got this amazing show.

686
00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:30,280
Speaker 1: My friend would really like to hear a.

687
00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:35,560
Speaker 2: Story spoonful of Sarah has personally requested this.

688
00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:39,800
Speaker 1: Ye, see what you can do? All right? I'll see what.

689
00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:44,360
Speaker 2: About the juice. What are some of the wildest trends

690
00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:50,040
Speaker 2: or devices or scenarios that you've had or learnings that

691
00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:54,000
Speaker 2: you've had that might surprise people who haven't given birth

692
00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:56,719
Speaker 2: or who have given birth, or like, I know you

693
00:32:56,760 --> 00:33:00,040
Speaker 2: did hypno birthing, Like there are trends home birth I

694
00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:02,000
Speaker 2: think I think is becoming a lot more common, Like

695
00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:04,560
Speaker 2: there are trends and fashions also, but a sort of

696
00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:05,800
Speaker 2: happening in the birth space.

697
00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:07,880
Speaker 1: I think there's things that come and go. And when

698
00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:10,200
Speaker 1: I started the podcast, I feel like duellers and things

699
00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:12,120
Speaker 1: were still very much on the fringe, and it was

700
00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:14,200
Speaker 1: kind of like, oh, if you're alternative and you're having

701
00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:15,600
Speaker 1: a home birth, you might have a duller.

702
00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:17,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, if you're a hippie, you'll have a doller.

703
00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:21,400
Speaker 1: Yeah. But now they're very much mainstream and there's a

704
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:24,400
Speaker 1: much stronger understanding of what they can offer, and a

705
00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:27,800
Speaker 1: lot of dollers attend hospital bits and it's definitely not

706
00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:31,480
Speaker 1: just kind of niche down and I think they're bridging

707
00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:33,920
Speaker 1: a huge gap as well in the continuity of care.

708
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:36,440
Speaker 1: If you can't get a known care provider throughout and

709
00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:39,480
Speaker 1: you would like one, then duellers can really bridge that gap,

710
00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:42,120
Speaker 1: and postpartum dollers as well has become a lot more

711
00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:46,160
Speaker 1: just commonplace. I think people are acknowledging that you do

712
00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:49,240
Speaker 1: need a lot of support physically and emotionally and with

713
00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:51,960
Speaker 1: cooking and things like that, and so it's nice to

714
00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:54,840
Speaker 1: see those things embraced. And I feel like the postpartum

715
00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:58,960
Speaker 1: dollar is really a nod to that confinement period and

716
00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:01,280
Speaker 1: that we've shared quite a bit on the show as well,

717
00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:04,320
Speaker 1: and it's kind of yeah, acknowledging how important, and yeah,

718
00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:07,200
Speaker 1: what a great practice that is. But I think things like,

719
00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:10,759
Speaker 1: initially my first birthday did placenter encapsulation, and I feel

720
00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:12,879
Speaker 1: like that kind of ebbs and flows people like right

721
00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:15,799
Speaker 1: into it or not doing it anymore, and yeah, so

722
00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:20,160
Speaker 1: and I had them encapsulated, but people have placenta smovies

723
00:34:20,239 --> 00:34:21,160
Speaker 1: and just consume.

724
00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:24,920
Speaker 2: Go, Wait, can you first explain to people? Because again,

725
00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:28,000
Speaker 2: I feel like I came out of year twelve thinking, A,

726
00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:29,760
Speaker 2: if I sat on a toilet seat that A boids

727
00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:31,680
Speaker 2: out and I could get pregnant anytime of the year,

728
00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:33,680
Speaker 2: three hundred and sixty five days of the year. B

729
00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:36,400
Speaker 2: didn't know that my cycle had four phases and C

730
00:34:36,640 --> 00:34:38,440
Speaker 2: had like thought the babies came out like they did

731
00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:40,680
Speaker 2: in the movies. Like, I just don't think we're taught

732
00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:44,200
Speaker 2: enough about who even knew you had to birth a

733
00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:46,399
Speaker 2: placenta separately? Like what does that even mean?

734
00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:49,200
Speaker 1: No? I feel you often forget that even when you

735
00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:50,960
Speaker 1: know in your birth and then you're like, oh, I

736
00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:54,280
Speaker 1: got to do the placenter now, which is usually much easier.

737
00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:57,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, so you have to birth it separately, right, Yeah?

738
00:34:58,000 --> 00:34:59,839
Speaker 1: So you still So the baby comes out and then

739
00:34:59,880 --> 00:35:03,279
Speaker 1: you have more contractions ideally, and then the placenter is born.

740
00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:05,120
Speaker 1: And there's two ways of doing that. You can wait

741
00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:07,000
Speaker 1: for that to come out naturally and for your body

742
00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:09,680
Speaker 1: to so it's attached to the uterus and it kind

743
00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:12,680
Speaker 1: of comes away in the birth process, all things going well,

744
00:35:12,719 --> 00:35:15,040
Speaker 1: and then you birth that as well, and then that's

745
00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:17,360
Speaker 1: attached to the umbilical cord and then you cut the

746
00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:19,640
Speaker 1: cord or you do what you're going to do there. Oh,

747
00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:21,360
Speaker 1: which is another thing. There's a few different ways of

748
00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:23,479
Speaker 1: cutting the cord and how long you wait and whether

749
00:35:23,560 --> 00:35:26,680
Speaker 1: you but with the placenta basically your birth, the placenta

750
00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:30,359
Speaker 1: which has been filtering and giving the baby nutrients and

751
00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:34,120
Speaker 1: some people believe that if you consume that placenta as

752
00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:37,440
Speaker 1: the mother, then you're gaining those nutrients and iron and

753
00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:41,560
Speaker 1: different minerals because other animals eat their placenta. But it's

754
00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:44,279
Speaker 1: still not I'm not sure what the numbers would be,

755
00:35:44,280 --> 00:35:46,799
Speaker 1: but it's still not commonplace. But you can either have

756
00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:49,600
Speaker 1: it kind of dried by a professional who knows how

757
00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:51,360
Speaker 1: to keep it not contaminated.

758
00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:54,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not just your husband in the backyard like.

759
00:35:54,719 --> 00:35:59,240
Speaker 1: You got to keep up, you know. And the lasting

760
00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:01,759
Speaker 1: one is kind of blood poisoning when you're breastfeeding and

761
00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:04,040
Speaker 1: taking care of yourself. So it needs to be done

762
00:36:04,040 --> 00:36:06,759
Speaker 1: by a certified person who knows what they're doing, and

763
00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:09,080
Speaker 1: then they freeze, dry it and put it into capsules,

764
00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:12,399
Speaker 1: or some people elect to consume it, or if you've

765
00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:14,520
Speaker 1: had a home birth, you can just kind of consume

766
00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:16,320
Speaker 1: it raw in a smoothie. I've no idea what that

767
00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:18,279
Speaker 1: would taste like. Might haven't done it at all.

768
00:36:18,640 --> 00:36:22,520
Speaker 2: I think for Louis, you did the delayed where you

769
00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:23,799
Speaker 2: wait as long as you can.

770
00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:27,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, so it's delayed cord clamping, but it's actually now reframed,

771
00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:30,400
Speaker 1: like the terminology changes a lot. They call it optimal

772
00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:33,879
Speaker 1: cord clamping, and most hospitals just do that as commonplace now,

773
00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:36,560
Speaker 1: where you let the blood move from the placenta into

774
00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:38,719
Speaker 1: the baby, because if you cut it too soon, then

775
00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:41,160
Speaker 1: the blood's left behind in the placenter and and that

776
00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:43,960
Speaker 1: iron rich kind of important blood needs to go into

777
00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:46,799
Speaker 1: the baby. But there's other ways of cutting the cord too.

778
00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:48,760
Speaker 1: I cut my own cord, which I think is prickle.

779
00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:52,120
Speaker 2: I was like, I'm going to cut it myself, screw you,

780
00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:52,960
Speaker 2: it's mutched.

781
00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:57,319
Speaker 1: My husband didn't really care, so that was funny. But

782
00:36:57,400 --> 00:36:59,960
Speaker 1: some people also burn the cord in like, oh my,

783
00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:02,840
Speaker 1: in a ceremony and use because it's like there's no

784
00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:05,319
Speaker 1: nerve fibers or anything in it. So yeah, they burn

785
00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:07,960
Speaker 1: it to separate it from the placenta and the baby

786
00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:11,000
Speaker 1: with like candle and make a bit of a ritual

787
00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:12,560
Speaker 1: out of it. So there's a few different things you

788
00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:13,239
Speaker 1: can do there too.

789
00:37:13,560 --> 00:37:17,719
Speaker 2: Wow, oh my gosh, there's just so many different options

790
00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:20,720
Speaker 2: and it's so overwhelming, And I think what the most

791
00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:24,919
Speaker 2: beautiful thing is about the book is that it distills

792
00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:29,839
Speaker 2: everything that you could glean from the podcast into like

793
00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:35,360
Speaker 2: chronological order in a really concise, easy accessible way. Like,

794
00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:37,560
Speaker 2: obviously I love listening to the podcast, but you know,

795
00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:39,560
Speaker 2: a newcomer, I'd be like, can you please listen to

796
00:37:39,680 --> 00:37:42,600
Speaker 2: episode one, two, three hundred and fifty right now in order?

797
00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:45,480
Speaker 2: But if you are, you know, if you've just conceived

798
00:37:45,560 --> 00:37:48,160
Speaker 2: or you've just found out. I love that it's just

799
00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:51,600
Speaker 2: so well ordered. It's all of this information, all of

800
00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:54,120
Speaker 2: the options, all of the decisions you have to make,

801
00:37:54,239 --> 00:37:56,400
Speaker 2: Like very quickly, it's like, do you want to go

802
00:37:56,800 --> 00:37:58,600
Speaker 2: private or public? Do you want to have a dueler

803
00:37:58,680 --> 00:37:59,960
Speaker 2: or no b do you want to go to a

804
00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:02,040
Speaker 2: birthing center or a hospital? There's do you want to

805
00:38:02,080 --> 00:38:04,720
Speaker 2: both in a pool? Or like There's just so many

806
00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:09,040
Speaker 2: options and you walk everyone through those in such a

807
00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:13,560
Speaker 2: clear and less overwhelming way. So is that how the

808
00:38:13,640 --> 00:38:16,759
Speaker 2: book idea came up? That you were distilling so much

809
00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:19,960
Speaker 2: information and thought Everyone asked me what five episodes I

810
00:38:19,960 --> 00:38:21,759
Speaker 2: should just do? What if I just gave you like

811
00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:22,399
Speaker 2: a written for.

812
00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:25,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, well sort of and then sort of not in

813
00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:27,520
Speaker 1: the same way that my business is always a bit

814
00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:30,040
Speaker 1: backward and coming forward. I was approached by a book

815
00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:31,960
Speaker 1: publisher saying have you thought about doing a book? And

816
00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:33,520
Speaker 1: I was like, no, I have not thought about the

817
00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:36,560
Speaker 1: book that was during COVID. I was like, oh, the

818
00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:38,279
Speaker 1: last thing I need to add to the mix is

819
00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:40,960
Speaker 1: like within with the homeschooling and toilet training, is writing

820
00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:43,240
Speaker 1: a book. And so then a bit of time passed

821
00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:45,719
Speaker 1: and then Jodie, who I ended up co writing with,

822
00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:49,399
Speaker 1: wrote her own book on a totally different topic and

823
00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:52,080
Speaker 1: then said you should approach Murdock, which I know is

824
00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:54,319
Speaker 1: your publisher as well, and talk to them about it

825
00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:57,520
Speaker 1: because I really think we should do it. And then

826
00:38:57,560 --> 00:38:59,920
Speaker 1: we all had a few kind of conference calls and

827
00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:03,840
Speaker 1: talked about, you know, what is currently available, and people

828
00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:07,160
Speaker 1: were often asking me on the podcast and in DMS

829
00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:09,440
Speaker 1: and things like what book should I read? And there

830
00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:11,600
Speaker 1: are some good books out there, but it felt very

831
00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:14,200
Speaker 1: much they're skewed to one style of birthing, or they're

832
00:39:14,280 --> 00:39:17,000
Speaker 1: skewed to one particular So there's a lot of home

833
00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:18,719
Speaker 1: birth books, or there's a lot of books on being

834
00:39:18,719 --> 00:39:21,040
Speaker 1: really active in birth, but there's not a book, an

835
00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:24,520
Speaker 1: Australian book that kind of covers all of those things

836
00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:28,799
Speaker 1: and is welcoming to all types of births. As you say,

837
00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:31,600
Speaker 1: So we wanted someone who knows they want a cesarean

838
00:39:31,640 --> 00:39:33,160
Speaker 1: to be able to pick up the book and still

839
00:39:33,239 --> 00:39:36,360
Speaker 1: feel welcome and feel like that this book is also

840
00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:39,280
Speaker 1: for them, So we wanted it to be really complete

841
00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:42,080
Speaker 1: and holistic, and yeah, we were able to kind of

842
00:39:42,160 --> 00:39:44,640
Speaker 1: nut that out with the team at Murdoch and we

843
00:39:44,719 --> 00:39:48,680
Speaker 1: spent two years writing it. So they sort of initially said,

844
00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:50,880
Speaker 1: I don't know what the common kind of writing period

845
00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:52,520
Speaker 1: is for books, but they said, could you kind of

846
00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:54,319
Speaker 1: have it ready by such and such a date which

847
00:39:54,320 --> 00:39:56,680
Speaker 1: would have allowed us six months, and we said absolutely not,

848
00:39:56,880 --> 00:40:00,000
Speaker 1: Like this is a really big undertaking and we don't

849
00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:04,200
Speaker 1: tend to be medical professionals either. We were, you know, mothers,

850
00:40:04,320 --> 00:40:07,080
Speaker 1: but have worked in the healthcare space, and Jodie's taught

851
00:40:07,120 --> 00:40:09,400
Speaker 1: birth education, but we didn't want to pretend to be

852
00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:12,399
Speaker 1: obstetricians and midwives. So it was really important for us

853
00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:15,800
Speaker 1: to go out and speak to all these perinatal health

854
00:40:15,840 --> 00:40:18,719
Speaker 1: specialists and to add their insight into the book. And

855
00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:21,480
Speaker 1: then there was a five month editing process where we

856
00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:24,360
Speaker 1: took it to midwives and obstetricians to read as a

857
00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:27,640
Speaker 1: complete manuscript. Yeah, because we didn't want to be giving

858
00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:30,799
Speaker 1: kind of inappropriate advice. We really wanted it to be

859
00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:35,680
Speaker 1: medically endorsed. So and we've had two of our favorites Indorset,

860
00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:41,799
Speaker 1: both a beautiful midwife Hannah Dalen and obstrician doctor Lionel Steinberg,

861
00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:45,799
Speaker 1: who's affectionately known in Melbourne as vaginal Lionel.

862
00:40:50,320 --> 00:40:54,800
Speaker 2: Name. I know that should have been his nickname.

863
00:40:55,080 --> 00:40:57,960
Speaker 1: I know on the cover, well, people say because he's

864
00:40:58,000 --> 00:41:00,680
Speaker 1: really like pro vaginal birth. It's like, I don't know

865
00:41:00,680 --> 00:41:03,040
Speaker 1: if you can be pro vaginal birth, but he's an

866
00:41:03,040 --> 00:41:05,640
Speaker 1: obstecution who has perhaps less interventions.

867
00:41:06,040 --> 00:41:09,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, how did you decide to balance? Because I think

868
00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:12,640
Speaker 2: you're very good at like sharing your own birth stories

869
00:41:12,680 --> 00:41:15,560
Speaker 2: and what your preferences were, like less interventions if possible,

870
00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:18,839
Speaker 2: obviously subject to if things go wrong and it's necessary.

871
00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:22,880
Speaker 2: How do you balance covering topics that might be a

872
00:41:22,880 --> 00:41:25,200
Speaker 2: little bit more fringe or a little bit less common,

873
00:41:26,080 --> 00:41:28,560
Speaker 2: but if it's something that you're not necessarily against but

874
00:41:28,640 --> 00:41:32,000
Speaker 2: not particularly for, and choosing to put that on the

875
00:41:32,040 --> 00:41:33,480
Speaker 2: platform or not, is that hard?

876
00:41:34,080 --> 00:41:37,120
Speaker 1: Yeah? Well, I've chosen to not share free births, and

877
00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:40,880
Speaker 1: that's where somebody birth's without a care provider at all knowingly.

878
00:41:41,080 --> 00:41:42,799
Speaker 1: I think that's been around for a long time and

879
00:41:42,840 --> 00:41:45,680
Speaker 1: people will argue that's how people birth initially, but I

880
00:41:45,719 --> 00:41:48,360
Speaker 1: don't want to. With my public health background and a

881
00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:51,600
Speaker 1: sense of responsibility, I don't want to be encouraging anybody

882
00:41:51,880 --> 00:41:56,160
Speaker 1: to birth without a known care provider, because I mean

883
00:41:56,239 --> 00:41:58,920
Speaker 1: feel like nearly everywhere in Austray you've got access to

884
00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:01,799
Speaker 1: somebody through the public system as well. Maybe it's not

885
00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:04,000
Speaker 1: exactly what you had in mind, but I just think

886
00:42:04,040 --> 00:42:06,560
Speaker 1: it's an unnecessary risk. So I don't want to promote that.

887
00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:09,680
Speaker 1: So I've chosen to do that, and I have chosen

888
00:42:09,719 --> 00:42:13,960
Speaker 1: throughout COVID too. I'm fully vaccinated, and I kept promoting information,

889
00:42:14,160 --> 00:42:17,840
Speaker 1: not promoting that people vaccinate, but promoting the sources where

890
00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:20,480
Speaker 1: this is where you should go to hear the experts

891
00:42:20,520 --> 00:42:23,000
Speaker 1: discuss it so you can make an informed decision. And

892
00:42:23,040 --> 00:42:24,960
Speaker 1: I feel like that is like the crux of all

893
00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:27,160
Speaker 1: my work. If you know all the things, then you

894
00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:29,239
Speaker 1: can make an informed choice. I'm not going to tell

895
00:42:29,280 --> 00:42:31,040
Speaker 1: you you should have a home birth or you should

896
00:42:31,080 --> 00:42:33,480
Speaker 1: go and get vaccinated, but I am happy to say

897
00:42:33,520 --> 00:42:37,640
Speaker 1: here's all the kind of vetted experts that have really

898
00:42:37,719 --> 00:42:39,680
Speaker 1: done the research, and you should hear it from them

899
00:42:40,040 --> 00:42:42,960
Speaker 1: and then make your own decision. So I guess that's

900
00:42:43,000 --> 00:42:45,360
Speaker 1: the main thing. There's been a couple of episodes where

901
00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:49,160
Speaker 1: I have there's two episodes that I've removed for various reasons,

902
00:42:49,200 --> 00:42:52,839
Speaker 1: and one was a midwife who was de registered and

903
00:42:53,160 --> 00:42:56,239
Speaker 1: I recorded the episode. Nothing kind of contentious happened in

904
00:42:56,280 --> 00:42:59,480
Speaker 1: her particular episode, but other people reached out to me

905
00:42:59,520 --> 00:43:02,480
Speaker 1: because I've big community of student midwives and midwives that

906
00:43:02,560 --> 00:43:05,840
Speaker 1: listen to kind of gain more experience, and they said,

907
00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:08,360
Speaker 1: you know, we don't think it's safe that that woman

908
00:43:08,520 --> 00:43:11,319
Speaker 1: is mentioned by name and her services are promoted because

909
00:43:11,360 --> 00:43:14,480
Speaker 1: she was deregistered for a variety of reasons, and so

910
00:43:15,120 --> 00:43:17,839
Speaker 1: I decided to pull that episode down to so I've

911
00:43:17,880 --> 00:43:20,400
Speaker 1: got a real sense of duty of care to everybody

912
00:43:20,440 --> 00:43:23,640
Speaker 1: who's listening as well. So that's another kind of contributing factor.

913
00:43:23,640 --> 00:43:27,279
Speaker 1: When I'm collating all the stories.

914
00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:29,560
Speaker 2: I think that really shines through. But I also often

915
00:43:29,560 --> 00:43:32,800
Speaker 2: am like, wow, I don't envy the decision making process

916
00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:36,920
Speaker 2: for you of going for maximum information sharing of all

917
00:43:36,960 --> 00:43:41,759
Speaker 2: the options, but also the responsibility on you to kind

918
00:43:41,800 --> 00:43:45,120
Speaker 2: of be a gatekeeper of that information in a particular way.

919
00:43:45,360 --> 00:43:47,719
Speaker 1: And I guess the really difficult stories I have a

920
00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:51,520
Speaker 1: trigger warning although I find that the term people have

921
00:43:51,640 --> 00:43:54,759
Speaker 1: thoughts on the term trigger too, it kind of devalues

922
00:43:54,840 --> 00:43:58,160
Speaker 1: those experiences for other people. But I definitely say upfront,

923
00:43:58,200 --> 00:44:01,480
Speaker 1: this episode talks about baby loss. This episode we really

924
00:44:01,480 --> 00:44:04,280
Speaker 1: discuss miscarriage. So if you don't feel ready to listen

925
00:44:04,280 --> 00:44:06,839
Speaker 1: to that, then perhaps stop listening now. So I don't

926
00:44:06,840 --> 00:44:09,719
Speaker 1: want people to kind of for it to bring up

927
00:44:09,760 --> 00:44:12,600
Speaker 1: their previous trauma if they haven't kind of consciously made

928
00:44:12,600 --> 00:44:13,480
Speaker 1: the choice to listen.

929
00:44:13,840 --> 00:44:16,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you can't control when an episode is

930
00:44:16,520 --> 00:44:18,880
Speaker 2: going to find someone either or what stage it finds

931
00:44:18,880 --> 00:44:20,480
Speaker 2: them in. So I think, I know it's so hard

932
00:44:20,520 --> 00:44:21,759
Speaker 2: to if you don't want to use the word, but

933
00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:24,120
Speaker 2: I think that does give them a choice at least

934
00:44:24,120 --> 00:44:27,400
Speaker 2: to doubt before they're thrown into a conversation they're not

935
00:44:27,480 --> 00:44:30,520
Speaker 2: ready for. In writing the book, was that? I mean,

936
00:44:30,560 --> 00:44:34,280
Speaker 2: you've obviously learned so much from so many different stories

937
00:44:34,320 --> 00:44:36,080
Speaker 2: in so many different areas. Is there anything in the

938
00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:40,600
Speaker 2: book statistics or facts or things that still fascinate you

939
00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:45,800
Speaker 2: about birth and pregnancy in motherhood that to the total

940
00:44:45,960 --> 00:44:48,960
Speaker 2: newbie to the area. If you wanted to just impress

941
00:44:49,040 --> 00:44:52,439
Speaker 2: upon them like some cool stuff, what would they be

942
00:44:53,520 --> 00:44:56,480
Speaker 2: that's such a hard question, I know, but if there

943
00:44:56,480 --> 00:44:58,680
Speaker 2: were like some clickbaiting things that you're just like, this

944
00:44:58,880 --> 00:45:00,120
Speaker 2: is interesting, because.

945
00:45:00,520 --> 00:45:02,880
Speaker 1: There's some really interesting things that I should have like

946
00:45:02,920 --> 00:45:05,080
Speaker 1: perhaps done a bit of research on this, but I'm

947
00:45:05,120 --> 00:45:07,560
Speaker 1: not going to remember it exactly. But there's a thing

948
00:45:07,600 --> 00:45:10,600
Speaker 1: when you have a cesarean birth, the cells from the

949
00:45:10,640 --> 00:45:14,920
Speaker 1: baby become intertwined in the scar tissue. So I'm not

950
00:45:15,480 --> 00:45:18,680
Speaker 1: articulate that very well, but it's like they're always physically

951
00:45:18,800 --> 00:45:21,319
Speaker 1: I mean, every birth is physically always with you, but

952
00:45:21,360 --> 00:45:25,200
Speaker 1: that actually components of that baby stay within the scar,

953
00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:29,360
Speaker 1: and if you've had a loss, you'll always carry components

954
00:45:29,360 --> 00:45:31,359
Speaker 1: of the DNA of that baby as well. So it's

955
00:45:31,520 --> 00:45:35,880
Speaker 1: like it's lovely. There's I should have found the quote,

956
00:45:35,880 --> 00:45:38,080
Speaker 1: but there's a succinct t way of saying that.

957
00:45:39,600 --> 00:45:41,040
Speaker 2: No, that's fascinating.

958
00:45:41,360 --> 00:45:44,399
Speaker 1: See I've got experts critique it in the book. But yeah,

959
00:45:44,440 --> 00:45:47,560
Speaker 1: there's elements of like even if you have lost a baby,

960
00:45:47,680 --> 00:45:51,040
Speaker 1: they'll always physically be within you. But there's also components

961
00:45:51,040 --> 00:45:53,160
Speaker 1: of when the baby is born through a cesarean, there's

962
00:45:53,160 --> 00:45:55,919
Speaker 1: like elements of them that help the scar to heal. Like, yeah,

963
00:45:55,960 --> 00:45:58,560
Speaker 1: it's pretty amazing, very kind of primal.

964
00:45:58,800 --> 00:46:03,520
Speaker 2: Even labor itself. It's just outrageous. How there's like vaginal

965
00:46:03,600 --> 00:46:07,640
Speaker 2: breach birth, vaginal normal births is Ariot, Like, oh my god,

966
00:46:08,680 --> 00:46:12,560
Speaker 2: just the steps, like women just whall so much information

967
00:46:12,640 --> 00:46:15,200
Speaker 2: and you've really distilled it in such an easy to

968
00:46:15,280 --> 00:46:18,680
Speaker 2: digest way, even like you know, breastfeeding and formula. Oh,

969
00:46:18,719 --> 00:46:21,160
Speaker 2: there's just so much information. Is there anything else that

970
00:46:21,280 --> 00:46:26,439
Speaker 2: you still get astounded by or surprised by? Or maybe

971
00:46:26,440 --> 00:46:27,960
Speaker 2: the better way to approach it is, are they the

972
00:46:28,040 --> 00:46:31,160
Speaker 2: questions that you get asked the most about childbirth?

973
00:46:31,360 --> 00:46:34,759
Speaker 1: Yeah? I get asked of so many questions. People often

974
00:46:34,800 --> 00:46:37,440
Speaker 1: ask me as well, which I find is unusual. It

975
00:46:37,480 --> 00:46:39,640
Speaker 1: feels unusual to me being a mother of three, But

976
00:46:39,760 --> 00:46:41,600
Speaker 1: they say, you know, how do you know when you're ready?

977
00:46:41,680 --> 00:46:44,920
Speaker 1: And my gut response to that is if you're asking

978
00:46:44,960 --> 00:46:49,680
Speaker 1: me that, then you're not ready. Yeah, it's so consuming

979
00:46:50,120 --> 00:46:52,799
Speaker 1: in every way for the rest of your life. I

980
00:46:52,800 --> 00:46:55,239
Speaker 1: feel like you really need to be ready and know

981
00:46:55,280 --> 00:46:58,440
Speaker 1: that you're ready to have those conversations with yourself if

982
00:46:58,440 --> 00:47:00,960
Speaker 1: you're doing it solo or your partner. And I think

983
00:47:00,960 --> 00:47:03,040
Speaker 1: another question people often ask me too, is how do

984
00:47:03,040 --> 00:47:05,400
Speaker 1: you know when you're done. And I thought, oh, I mean,

985
00:47:05,480 --> 00:47:08,359
Speaker 1: like you don't want any more children by choice? And

986
00:47:08,440 --> 00:47:10,879
Speaker 1: I thought, oh, I think I'll never feel done because

987
00:47:10,920 --> 00:47:13,279
Speaker 1: I just love babies and births so much. But then

988
00:47:13,400 --> 00:47:16,160
Speaker 1: I think, like when Ottie hit like eighteen months or two,

989
00:47:16,200 --> 00:47:18,400
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, one hundredcent done, So maybe it

990
00:47:18,400 --> 00:47:22,479
Speaker 1: does happen. There's no there's absolutely no way I would

991
00:47:22,480 --> 00:47:24,720
Speaker 1: have another child. And my father in law was visiting

992
00:47:24,760 --> 00:47:26,319
Speaker 1: the other day and he said, wouldn't it be nice

993
00:47:26,320 --> 00:47:28,320
Speaker 1: to have a girl, And I said, no, not happening.

994
00:47:28,440 --> 00:47:32,759
Speaker 1: I'm Clossness exactly, and I'm forty two now, so I

995
00:47:32,840 --> 00:47:35,840
Speaker 1: just feel like, oh, it feels too much for my body.

996
00:47:36,120 --> 00:47:38,000
Speaker 1: I know people will still birth at this age, but

997
00:47:38,080 --> 00:47:40,719
Speaker 1: I just feel like, no, for me, I'm finished. Yeah,

998
00:47:40,719 --> 00:47:42,799
Speaker 1: but I get to ask questions like that all the time,

999
00:47:42,920 --> 00:47:46,200
Speaker 1: sort of and again, really intimate questions. And my publicist

1000
00:47:46,200 --> 00:47:49,839
Speaker 1: has been working in my LinkedIn account lately, and she said, oh,

1001
00:47:49,920 --> 00:47:52,080
Speaker 1: I can't believe like people just kind of say hi,

1002
00:47:52,120 --> 00:47:53,920
Speaker 1: Sophie and then tell you their whole birth story and

1003
00:47:54,480 --> 00:47:57,480
Speaker 1: we'll suddenly talk about their prolapse or She's like, they're

1004
00:47:57,520 --> 00:47:59,839
Speaker 1: just right in there. There's no like'sn a lovely day

1005
00:47:59,880 --> 00:48:02,560
Speaker 1: to I said, yeah, that's how my work is. People

1006
00:48:02,640 --> 00:48:06,160
Speaker 1: are just like very, very open, So yeah, it's an

1007
00:48:06,200 --> 00:48:07,600
Speaker 1: interesting space to work in.

1008
00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:10,160
Speaker 2: One thing that always comes to mind with me is, like,

1009
00:48:10,239 --> 00:48:13,200
Speaker 2: I think you said it in your episode with Attie

1010
00:48:13,239 --> 00:48:15,560
Speaker 2: maybe just how you sort of spend a lot of

1011
00:48:15,600 --> 00:48:18,840
Speaker 2: the pregnancy. Actually it was in Rosalia's episode where you

1012
00:48:18,880 --> 00:48:20,319
Speaker 2: spend a lot of time being like, oh my god,

1013
00:48:20,360 --> 00:48:23,000
Speaker 2: I'm pregnant. This is so beautiful. And then you know,

1014
00:48:23,080 --> 00:48:26,040
Speaker 2: in the second trimester, a lot of the symptoms calm down,

1015
00:48:26,080 --> 00:48:27,759
Speaker 2: so then you really enjoy it. And then in the

1016
00:48:27,760 --> 00:48:29,600
Speaker 2: third trimester, people are just like, shit, I have to

1017
00:48:29,600 --> 00:48:32,239
Speaker 2: get this baby out, Like I like, you know, but

1018
00:48:32,280 --> 00:48:34,680
Speaker 2: you don't actually think about it until the third trimester.

1019
00:48:34,920 --> 00:48:38,440
Speaker 2: It has to come out somehow, and that's one of

1020
00:48:38,480 --> 00:48:41,319
Speaker 2: the scariest things, thinking about, Oh my god, like I

1021
00:48:41,360 --> 00:48:42,879
Speaker 2: actually have to do the most painful thing I've ever

1022
00:48:42,880 --> 00:48:45,080
Speaker 2: done in my life. But women keep going back. So

1023
00:48:46,040 --> 00:48:49,120
Speaker 2: I heard that there's like a something in your brain

1024
00:48:49,200 --> 00:48:51,560
Speaker 2: that makes you forget the trauma so that you can

1025
00:48:51,600 --> 00:48:54,120
Speaker 2: do it again. Like, is it as bad? Because even

1026
00:48:54,160 --> 00:48:55,920
Speaker 2: in your sister's episode, she's like, it's the worst pain

1027
00:48:55,960 --> 00:48:57,759
Speaker 2: I've ever felt in my life, like the worst, and

1028
00:48:57,800 --> 00:48:59,120
Speaker 2: I was like, oh my god, but how did you

1029
00:48:59,120 --> 00:48:59,600
Speaker 2: do it again?

1030
00:48:59,600 --> 00:49:03,239
Speaker 1: Then? I don't think you forget if you've had a

1031
00:49:03,280 --> 00:49:05,480
Speaker 1: traumatic birth. I think that stays with you. But there

1032
00:49:05,520 --> 00:49:08,759
Speaker 1: is something I think personally I would say, and I

1033
00:49:08,760 --> 00:49:10,959
Speaker 1: think it is to help you go back and have more.

1034
00:49:11,080 --> 00:49:13,200
Speaker 1: There is something to do with the pain threshold of

1035
00:49:13,280 --> 00:49:15,640
Speaker 1: forgetting that pain. But I think when you have the

1036
00:49:15,680 --> 00:49:18,200
Speaker 1: first contraction of the subsequent birth, you're like, oh god,

1037
00:49:18,239 --> 00:49:19,240
Speaker 1: I remember.

1038
00:49:19,320 --> 00:49:20,640
Speaker 2: Oh no, oh no.

1039
00:49:21,719 --> 00:49:24,279
Speaker 1: I mean I can't have had painless births. But like

1040
00:49:24,400 --> 00:49:27,200
Speaker 1: Louis birth really felt like I think it was a

1041
00:49:27,239 --> 00:49:29,719
Speaker 1: reframing of the pain as well. And I know, like

1042
00:49:30,040 --> 00:49:32,279
Speaker 1: a lot of courses don't like to use the word pain.

1043
00:49:32,360 --> 00:49:34,440
Speaker 1: And it's like a surge and it is like a

1044
00:49:34,480 --> 00:49:37,080
Speaker 1: true contraction, feels like a wave moving up your body

1045
00:49:37,120 --> 00:49:38,839
Speaker 1: and you feel it come up and here to peek

1046
00:49:38,880 --> 00:49:42,960
Speaker 1: and then come down. And I felt like I had

1047
00:49:43,000 --> 00:49:45,920
Speaker 1: a better perhaps not so much in my third birth, ironically,

1048
00:49:46,000 --> 00:49:48,200
Speaker 1: but in my second birth, I really thought about that

1049
00:49:48,280 --> 00:49:52,000
Speaker 1: and I thought, Okay, this is what's happening physiologically in

1050
00:49:52,000 --> 00:49:54,400
Speaker 1: my body to bring the baby down and it's not

1051
00:49:54,520 --> 00:49:58,719
Speaker 1: a negative pain, it's a productive pain that's opening up things,

1052
00:49:58,760 --> 00:50:01,240
Speaker 1: that's stretching the tissue and things. And then you don't

1053
00:50:01,400 --> 00:50:04,280
Speaker 1: tend to kind of clench against it. You kind of go, Okay,

1054
00:50:04,320 --> 00:50:08,000
Speaker 1: I'm opening up and it feels really intense the opening,

1055
00:50:08,480 --> 00:50:09,960
Speaker 1: and then I think that really helps.

1056
00:50:10,200 --> 00:50:12,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you mentioned that yoga for both you and

1057
00:50:12,520 --> 00:50:14,600
Speaker 2: your sister really helped, and there's a lot of actual

1058
00:50:14,640 --> 00:50:19,080
Speaker 2: statistics around preparing your body through prenat or yoga in

1059
00:50:19,120 --> 00:50:22,520
Speaker 2: the third trimester. I think it was changing the way

1060
00:50:22,560 --> 00:50:23,840
Speaker 2: that the birth can happen.

1061
00:50:24,320 --> 00:50:26,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think it just really stretches, helps you

1062
00:50:26,640 --> 00:50:29,720
Speaker 1: stretch all those ligaments. But I think mindset is also

1063
00:50:29,760 --> 00:50:32,840
Speaker 1: so important, and a lot of beautiful pregnancy yoga classes

1064
00:50:32,880 --> 00:50:36,600
Speaker 1: and regular yoga classes use kind of meditation and connecting

1065
00:50:36,640 --> 00:50:39,920
Speaker 1: with your body, and you really need to form that

1066
00:50:40,000 --> 00:50:42,400
Speaker 1: connection with your body and pregnancy and birth so that

1067
00:50:42,480 --> 00:50:45,520
Speaker 1: you can kind of read each other. I mean, yeah,

1068
00:50:45,760 --> 00:50:47,440
Speaker 1: that sounds a bit weird when you say it like that,

1069
00:50:47,480 --> 00:50:50,280
Speaker 1: but you have, yeah, having an understanding, and I think,

1070
00:50:50,719 --> 00:50:53,080
Speaker 1: particularly in subsequent births, it's really nice to go to

1071
00:50:53,120 --> 00:50:55,359
Speaker 1: prenat or yoga and just connect with that baby if

1072
00:50:55,400 --> 00:50:57,200
Speaker 1: you've got a lot of hustle and bustle at home,

1073
00:50:57,320 --> 00:50:59,359
Speaker 1: or even if it's your first kind of coming out

1074
00:50:59,400 --> 00:51:02,720
Speaker 1: of your work and going in and really centering yourself

1075
00:51:02,719 --> 00:51:05,160
Speaker 1: on your body and thinking about where the baby is

1076
00:51:05,239 --> 00:51:08,120
Speaker 1: and what's to come. And I think all of that

1077
00:51:08,160 --> 00:51:11,800
Speaker 1: page really well for your birth preparation, so I highly

1078
00:51:11,840 --> 00:51:15,360
Speaker 1: recommend it and pilates I did a lot of plates.

1079
00:51:14,760 --> 00:51:19,960
Speaker 2: Oh oll in terms of the nittigritty of actually preparing

1080
00:51:20,000 --> 00:51:22,279
Speaker 2: for birth and then the process and the many many

1081
00:51:22,280 --> 00:51:25,759
Speaker 2: different options. The book is just such an invaluable and

1082
00:51:25,880 --> 00:51:29,520
Speaker 2: thorough and easy to read guide, So I highly recommend

1083
00:51:29,520 --> 00:51:32,080
Speaker 2: everyone have a read. And I'll include of course all

1084
00:51:32,080 --> 00:51:33,680
Speaker 2: the links in the show notes, but even just have

1085
00:51:33,719 --> 00:51:36,680
Speaker 2: a listen to the episodes. It opens your mind so much.

1086
00:51:37,200 --> 00:51:39,279
Speaker 2: And now having spoken to you a bit more about

1087
00:51:39,280 --> 00:51:41,000
Speaker 2: how the podcast developed, I don't know if you'll be

1088
00:51:41,040 --> 00:51:44,920
Speaker 2: able to answer this question, but now you've got a guide,

1089
00:51:45,280 --> 00:51:48,960
Speaker 2: the show a book. Do you have a vision for

1090
00:51:49,719 --> 00:51:52,680
Speaker 2: the Australian Birth Stories community in like a couple of

1091
00:51:52,719 --> 00:51:55,640
Speaker 2: years time. Do you have a big dream or are

1092
00:51:55,640 --> 00:51:59,040
Speaker 2: you just kind of similar to now, just see how

1093
00:51:59,080 --> 00:51:59,719
Speaker 2: it goes.

1094
00:51:59,560 --> 00:52:02,319
Speaker 1: Go with the no, we're a bit more planned out.

1095
00:52:02,440 --> 00:52:06,040
Speaker 1: I think I we're currently working on doing b CORP

1096
00:52:06,120 --> 00:52:09,960
Speaker 1: certification this year to kind of really that's a predict

1097
00:52:11,000 --> 00:52:14,399
Speaker 1: And then we're also working because I've got such rich,

1098
00:52:14,480 --> 00:52:17,600
Speaker 1: beautiful data and stories from all these women, I really

1099
00:52:17,640 --> 00:52:19,640
Speaker 1: want to try and use that for greater good. So

1100
00:52:19,680 --> 00:52:22,719
Speaker 1: we're trying to well in the process of organizing an

1101
00:52:22,760 --> 00:52:26,840
Speaker 1: annual study where people answer a questionnaire so that we

1102
00:52:26,920 --> 00:52:30,640
Speaker 1: can get the kind of again we're coming back full

1103
00:52:30,640 --> 00:52:33,719
Speaker 1: circle around to my degree and getting kind of good

1104
00:52:33,840 --> 00:52:37,240
Speaker 1: quality statistics to help advocate for better kind of funding

1105
00:52:37,239 --> 00:52:41,960
Speaker 1: and better resources and to get what we know women need,

1106
00:52:42,000 --> 00:52:44,960
Speaker 1: which is continuity of care and having options and choices

1107
00:52:45,000 --> 00:52:48,440
Speaker 1: in childbirth and in their pre and postpartum care. And

1108
00:52:48,560 --> 00:52:51,200
Speaker 1: if we can kind of use all of these voices

1109
00:52:51,239 --> 00:52:53,440
Speaker 1: of the women that have come to me to help

1110
00:52:53,520 --> 00:52:56,080
Speaker 1: get change for future women, then that would be the dream.

1111
00:52:56,239 --> 00:52:58,479
Speaker 1: So we're working on that at the moment as well.

1112
00:52:58,760 --> 00:53:02,480
Speaker 2: Oh how incredible, which also then makes the second question

1113
00:53:02,560 --> 00:53:04,400
Speaker 2: that I have you now like also a bit of

1114
00:53:04,400 --> 00:53:06,360
Speaker 2: a hard one to answer. But I think one of

1115
00:53:06,400 --> 00:53:09,279
Speaker 2: the things that I try and remember in my life

1116
00:53:09,280 --> 00:53:11,520
Speaker 2: and on the show is that even if you love

1117
00:53:11,520 --> 00:53:13,920
Speaker 2: what you do, and particularly if you're seeing an impact

1118
00:53:13,920 --> 00:53:17,000
Speaker 2: outside of your world for other people that's incredibly positive.

1119
00:53:17,800 --> 00:53:20,839
Speaker 2: It's so important to have something that's separate to that

1120
00:53:20,920 --> 00:53:23,160
Speaker 2: subject matter so that your brain can ress, so that

1121
00:53:23,200 --> 00:53:25,560
Speaker 2: you can stay creative and stay fresh and also just

1122
00:53:25,560 --> 00:53:29,640
Speaker 2: have some downtime. Do you do anything for fun or

1123
00:53:29,680 --> 00:53:33,799
Speaker 2: for play that's not birth stories related, that's not like

1124
00:53:34,040 --> 00:53:37,120
Speaker 2: motherhood and child children and like, is there any guilty

1125
00:53:37,160 --> 00:53:40,040
Speaker 2: pleasures that you have that's just for joy? Oh?

1126
00:53:40,120 --> 00:53:41,400
Speaker 1: I watch a lot of Netflix.

1127
00:53:41,560 --> 00:53:43,200
Speaker 2: Oh yes, yes, I love that.

1128
00:53:44,600 --> 00:53:46,920
Speaker 1: I think I have actually have I say Netflix, but

1129
00:53:46,960 --> 00:53:48,360
Speaker 1: I've got every streaming service.

1130
00:53:48,840 --> 00:53:52,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know I can catch all what do you watch?

1131
00:53:52,640 --> 00:53:54,319
Speaker 2: Don't tell me call them Midwife, even though I love

1132
00:53:54,360 --> 00:53:54,760
Speaker 2: that show.

1133
00:53:54,960 --> 00:53:56,840
Speaker 1: No, I don't watch birth related ones.

1134
00:53:57,040 --> 00:53:57,560
Speaker 2: Yeah good.

1135
00:53:57,960 --> 00:54:01,040
Speaker 1: Oh I love light white Loaders and all of those

1136
00:54:01,120 --> 00:54:03,960
Speaker 1: kind of ones and like the mysterious ones. Yeah, but

1137
00:54:04,120 --> 00:54:06,480
Speaker 1: such a mixed bag and some embarrassing ones like all

1138
00:54:06,520 --> 00:54:07,680
Speaker 1: American and stuff.

1139
00:54:07,840 --> 00:54:08,600
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, nice.

1140
00:54:08,760 --> 00:54:11,080
Speaker 1: I like just want to watch stuff to just totally

1141
00:54:11,120 --> 00:54:16,360
Speaker 1: switch off. But I'm not into late reality television, but

1142
00:54:16,480 --> 00:54:19,000
Speaker 1: just like pretty much everything else. But I also do

1143
00:54:18,800 --> 00:54:21,360
Speaker 1: I really enjoy doing pilates, even though that's kind of

1144
00:54:21,360 --> 00:54:23,719
Speaker 1: part of my rehab from my first birth. But I

1145
00:54:23,760 --> 00:54:25,840
Speaker 1: do really enjoy that, and I enjoy getting to the

1146
00:54:25,880 --> 00:54:28,160
Speaker 1: studio and doing it. I've hired one, but it's not

1147
00:54:28,239 --> 00:54:30,640
Speaker 1: quite the same as doing it at home, So I

1148
00:54:30,719 --> 00:54:33,239
Speaker 1: enjoy being in that environment with other women and doing

1149
00:54:33,280 --> 00:54:36,160
Speaker 1: the classes. But it's definitely something I need to work

1150
00:54:36,200 --> 00:54:38,400
Speaker 1: on for this year because I've definitely not that there

1151
00:54:38,480 --> 00:54:41,080
Speaker 1: is a balance in work life. But I feel like

1152
00:54:41,160 --> 00:54:44,320
Speaker 1: I've really turned the scales a bit doing the book

1153
00:54:44,360 --> 00:54:46,200
Speaker 1: and doing all the book promo and stuff, and so

1154
00:54:46,200 --> 00:54:48,160
Speaker 1: I look forward to kind of incorporating a bit more

1155
00:54:48,160 --> 00:54:49,000
Speaker 1: fun in this year.

1156
00:54:49,400 --> 00:54:54,040
Speaker 2: Oh good, that's wonderful to you. Second last question, particularly

1157
00:54:54,080 --> 00:54:56,040
Speaker 2: because I'm sure a lot of the questions you cover

1158
00:54:56,120 --> 00:54:59,320
Speaker 2: in most interviews are about birth. What are three interesting

1159
00:54:59,360 --> 00:55:02,520
Speaker 2: things about you unrelated to any of that that don't

1160
00:55:02,560 --> 00:55:03,800
Speaker 2: normally come up in conversation.

1161
00:55:04,360 --> 00:55:09,840
Speaker 1: Oh, I should have thought about these. I can sing.

1162
00:55:10,200 --> 00:55:11,960
Speaker 1: People probably don't know that, and I've going to hold

1163
00:55:11,960 --> 00:55:14,160
Speaker 1: it at the moment, but I can sing. Yeah, I

1164
00:55:14,160 --> 00:55:14,920
Speaker 1: was in the choir and.

1165
00:55:16,760 --> 00:55:19,800
Speaker 2: See I'm like, this is the Sophie Walker behind the show.

1166
00:55:21,480 --> 00:55:23,239
Speaker 1: And it's a great joke in my family that I

1167
00:55:23,320 --> 00:55:25,400
Speaker 1: used to learn the flute, so I can play the flute,

1168
00:55:25,440 --> 00:55:26,560
Speaker 1: which has taken.

1169
00:55:26,239 --> 00:55:27,320
Speaker 2: Me nowhere in life.

1170
00:55:27,520 --> 00:55:31,600
Speaker 1: But there, you guys, I don't think I'll be incorporating

1171
00:55:31,680 --> 00:55:32,680
Speaker 1: that into the business.

1172
00:55:33,120 --> 00:55:35,719
Speaker 2: You could play your own jingle if you ever choose

1173
00:55:35,719 --> 00:55:40,400
Speaker 2: a new jabel one day. They're great.

1174
00:55:40,760 --> 00:55:43,719
Speaker 1: Oh the third one. I feel like people assume that

1175
00:55:43,760 --> 00:55:45,840
Speaker 1: I'm a big book reader, and I'm not. I don't

1176
00:55:45,920 --> 00:55:48,160
Speaker 1: read books. I'm all about the audio, so I do

1177
00:55:48,280 --> 00:55:50,560
Speaker 1: listen to audiobooks, but I never like pick up a book.

1178
00:55:50,800 --> 00:55:53,719
Speaker 1: So people often ask me doing book clubs and I'm like,

1179
00:55:53,760 --> 00:55:54,560
Speaker 1: I'm not a reader.

1180
00:55:55,440 --> 00:55:58,919
Speaker 2: Wow. There that s arises me too. I think it's

1181
00:55:59,200 --> 00:56:01,839
Speaker 2: it's because you see, like the way that we would

1182
00:56:01,840 --> 00:56:05,760
Speaker 2: describe it is well read, because you are so well listened,

1183
00:56:05,800 --> 00:56:08,680
Speaker 2: maybe like you have so much knowledge. They assume it's

1184
00:56:08,680 --> 00:56:10,800
Speaker 2: from picking up a book that's so interesting.

1185
00:56:11,000 --> 00:56:13,040
Speaker 1: Well, I read the paper every day, so I guess

1186
00:56:13,040 --> 00:56:14,960
Speaker 1: it depends how you interpret that. But I don't like

1187
00:56:15,000 --> 00:56:16,719
Speaker 1: pick up a book and read. I'm not up to

1188
00:56:16,800 --> 00:56:20,640
Speaker 1: date with like all the latest novels. Well, I do

1189
00:56:20,800 --> 00:56:22,840
Speaker 1: read the paper every day, so I'm across the news,

1190
00:56:22,880 --> 00:56:25,560
Speaker 1: but not not other things. I don't know, I feel

1191
00:56:25,560 --> 00:56:27,759
Speaker 1: like that's like I'm missing out on life by not

1192
00:56:27,840 --> 00:56:29,760
Speaker 1: doing that. So I feel like maybe that's a skill

1193
00:56:29,760 --> 00:56:31,879
Speaker 1: I should work on. But yeah, I don't know. I'm

1194
00:56:31,880 --> 00:56:34,080
Speaker 1: in my forties now. Maybe it's just I thing.

1195
00:56:34,280 --> 00:56:36,200
Speaker 2: Never too late, never too late to find a new

1196
00:56:36,239 --> 00:56:40,920
Speaker 2: platya And very last question, what's your favorite quote if

1197
00:56:40,920 --> 00:56:41,480
Speaker 2: you have one?

1198
00:56:42,080 --> 00:56:44,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love one that kind of can be used

1199
00:56:44,239 --> 00:56:46,400
Speaker 1: across the board. But I first learned it when I

1200
00:56:46,440 --> 00:56:48,799
Speaker 1: was doing birth prep, and it's don't push the river.

1201
00:56:49,000 --> 00:56:54,040
Speaker 1: It flows by itself. And I think that's just nice

1202
00:56:54,040 --> 00:56:55,680
Speaker 1: in a lot of ways. For a lot of things.

1203
00:56:56,120 --> 00:56:58,719
Speaker 2: That's so and we do. I think in our generation

1204
00:56:59,360 --> 00:57:01,960
Speaker 2: and this day and age push all the time. We're

1205
00:57:02,000 --> 00:57:06,480
Speaker 2: always pushing, and sometimes it is just like just just kill.

1206
00:57:06,680 --> 00:57:06,839
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1207
00:57:08,560 --> 00:57:11,759
Speaker 2: Oh, Sophie, thank you so much. This was absolutely wonderful.

1208
00:57:12,239 --> 00:57:15,480
Speaker 2: I love following everything you do. The book is just glorious.

1209
00:57:15,560 --> 00:57:17,880
Speaker 2: I mean, look at this it has gold foiling. That's

1210
00:57:17,960 --> 00:57:18,600
Speaker 2: very fancy.

1211
00:57:18,800 --> 00:57:21,919
Speaker 1: Yeah, so fancy.

1212
00:57:21,960 --> 00:57:25,000
Speaker 2: Congratulations, Thanks so much for having me.

1213
00:57:25,280 --> 00:57:26,160
Speaker 1: Oh was so nice.

1214
00:57:26,280 --> 00:57:29,440
Speaker 2: Took Oh my gosh, I could have spoken to Sophie forever.

1215
00:57:29,600 --> 00:57:32,560
Speaker 2: She's just such a fountain of knowledge and there is

1216
00:57:32,640 --> 00:57:36,240
Speaker 2: so much to learn and understand. My goodness, women are amazing.

1217
00:57:36,440 --> 00:57:39,600
Speaker 2: What a perfect guest for International Women's Day. As I

1218
00:57:39,640 --> 00:57:42,000
Speaker 2: mentioned even this early in our own journey, I've gained

1219
00:57:42,040 --> 00:57:45,120
Speaker 2: so much from reading the Complete Australian Guide to Pregnancy

1220
00:57:45,160 --> 00:57:48,440
Speaker 2: and Birth. It just demystifies so many of the choices

1221
00:57:48,480 --> 00:57:51,840
Speaker 2: and options and just things I didn't even know what options.

1222
00:57:51,920 --> 00:57:55,280
Speaker 2: So I highly recommend any woman hoping to have a family,

1223
00:57:55,640 --> 00:57:57,760
Speaker 2: or any person who's hoping to have a family to

1224
00:57:57,800 --> 00:58:00,000
Speaker 2: grab a copy and pour over it. As I am.

1225
00:58:00,560 --> 00:58:02,200
Speaker 2: I'll pop the link in the show notes to the

1226
00:58:02,200 --> 00:58:04,560
Speaker 2: book and the podcast, and if you're a fangirl of

1227
00:58:04,680 --> 00:58:08,240
Speaker 2: Sophie as I am, please do share the episode and

1228
00:58:08,520 --> 00:58:11,960
Speaker 2: tag her at Australian Birth Stories to show your support.

1229
00:58:12,640 --> 00:58:14,600
Speaker 2: I know we should celebrate all that is womanly and

1230
00:58:14,640 --> 00:58:16,840
Speaker 2: wonderful every day, but I really do love this week

1231
00:58:16,920 --> 00:58:20,320
Speaker 2: of International Women's Day for reminding us to rally together

1232
00:58:20,520 --> 00:58:23,040
Speaker 2: and support one another, and I've already had some of

1233
00:58:23,040 --> 00:58:25,560
Speaker 2: the most special conversations. I hope you guys are all

1234
00:58:25,600 --> 00:58:28,880
Speaker 2: finding ways to acknowledge and celebrate the week and each

1235
00:58:28,880 --> 00:58:46,040
Speaker 2: other as well, and are seizing your yay