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Speaker 1: No matter where we're at in life, no matter what

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Speaker 1: we're doing, we're all one question away from a completely

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Speaker 1: different path. Just noticing where you've come from and where

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Speaker 1: you're heading, and that gives you the pause and the

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Speaker 1: opportunity to course crack if you want, or write the

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Speaker 1: new chapter and give us the opportunity to pick a

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Speaker 1: different path, injecting those moments, those micro moments I should say,

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Speaker 1: of play and excitement. If it goes so.

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Speaker 2: Far, welcome to the seas.

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Speaker 3: The Yay Podcast.

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Speaker 2: Busy and happy are not the same thing. We too

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Speaker 2: rarely question what makes the heart seeing. We work, then

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Speaker 2: we rest, but rarely we play and often don't realize

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Speaker 2: there's more than one way. So this is a platform

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Speaker 2: to hear and explore the stories of those who found

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Speaker 2: lives they adore, the good.

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Speaker 3: Bad and ugly.

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Speaker 2: The best and worst day will bear all the facets

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Speaker 2: of seizing your yay. I'm Sarah Davidson or Spoonful of Sarah,

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Speaker 2: a lawyer turned fu entrepreneur whos wapped the suits and

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Speaker 2: heels to co found matcha Maidan and Match Milk Bark

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Speaker 2: CZA is a series of conversations on finding a life

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Speaker 2: you love and exploring the self doubt, challenge, joy and

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Speaker 2: fulfillment along the way. There are so many people without

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Speaker 2: whom this show would not have been possible, but this

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Speaker 2: guest in particular really pushed me forwards at the pivotal

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Speaker 2: moment where I could have backed out. We connected a

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Speaker 2: few years ago when I jumped on his own incredible

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Speaker 2: show Behind the Human for one of my very first

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Speaker 2: ever podcast interviews, and a few months later it was

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Speaker 2: Mark who I turned to when I wanted to start

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Speaker 2: my own show. Back then, he was about the only

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Speaker 2: person I even knew with their own podcast, and I

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Speaker 2: still can't believe how instantly and generously he shared the

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Speaker 2: details of his gear software, reaching out to guests, and

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Speaker 2: everything in between about bringing a podcast to life and

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Speaker 2: what an absolute privilege years later now to at least

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Speaker 2: begin to repay the favor by sharing the exciting news

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Speaker 2: about his brand new book, Personal Socrates. Although I don't

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Speaker 2: really know if I'm repaying him a favor, I think

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Speaker 2: he's doing me another one by sharing his incredible wisdom

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Speaker 2: on the show. Mark Champagne has one of those fascinating

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Speaker 2: stories that begins with a whole decade in an area

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Speaker 2: that now I can't even imagine him in doing corporate

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Speaker 2: sales and brand management for pharmaceutical and biotech companies. His

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Speaker 2: side passion for photography was the first inclination of a

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Speaker 2: possible career shift, building from self taught newbie to even

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Speaker 2: joining photographers without borders on a trip from his native

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Speaker 2: Canada to Senegal. But it was through his groundbreaking journaling

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Speaker 2: and mental fitness app Keio that I first met Mark,

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Speaker 2: which saw incredible success, building up to eighty six point

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Speaker 2: nine million impressions on Apple until the day he decided

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Speaker 2: to delete it. And now he's a brand new author

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Speaker 2: helping us ask bigger and better questions to upgrade our lives,

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Speaker 2: just at the perfect time for World Mental Health Month.

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Speaker 2: I'm sure if it's his Canadian background or not, but

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Speaker 2: you'll hear instantly what a genuine and kind soul Mark

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Speaker 2: is and his book is exactly the handbook to happiness

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Speaker 2: and mental fitness that we all need as we continue

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Speaker 2: to navigate so much uncertainty and change.

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Speaker 3: I hope you get.

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Speaker 2: As much out of him as I did. Mark Champagne,

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Speaker 2: Welcome to the show.

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Speaker 1: Thanks Sarah. It's an honor to be here.

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Speaker 2: I am so so excited about this, firstly because I

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Speaker 2: haven't seen you in so long, Secondly because I'm so

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Speaker 2: thrilled about your incredible new book. But thirdly because and

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Speaker 2: I saved this until we press record because we've been

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Speaker 2: talking for about twenty minutes, because that's how excited I

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Speaker 2: am to see you. But for anyone who doesn't already

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Speaker 2: know this, and I actually don't think i've shared this before.

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Speaker 2: Back when I've had the idea for CZA three years ago,

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Speaker 2: I think it was I had been on Mark's incredible podcast,

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Speaker 2: which we'll talk about, and it was one of the

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Speaker 2: very first podcast interviews I'd ever done, and I enjoyed

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Speaker 2: it so much. In a couple of months later, I

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Speaker 2: had the idea of, oh, you know, I've told this

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Speaker 2: story before. I wanted to have more conversations in a

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Speaker 2: longer kind of forum. But I didn't know anything about podcasts.

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Speaker 2: And I always say that in the moment of self doubt,

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Speaker 2: you have to go to the right person and someone

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Speaker 2: can either tip you away from that dream.

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Speaker 3: Or tip you towards it.

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Speaker 2: And I went back and looked in advance of this

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Speaker 2: conversation at the email that I sent you, being like

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Speaker 2: we've never met in person. I've only just you know,

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Speaker 2: we've had one conversation, but you're the nicest person and

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Speaker 2: I love your energy. But also, can I please ask

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Speaker 2: you a favor? Can you tell me every single thing

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Speaker 2: you know about podcasts? Because I want to start one

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Speaker 2: and fully expecting you to be like, oh, you know,

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Speaker 2: I don't know.

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Speaker 3: Go to Apple podcasts or google it.

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Speaker 2: Mark sent back the most detailed, thoughtful, kind explanation of

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Speaker 2: microphones and platforms and where it lives and how Apple

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Speaker 2: podcast goes, like all this stuff I'd never heard of,

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Speaker 2: and you are the reason this podcast exists. And I

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Speaker 2: will never be able to thank you for that.

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Speaker 1: Well, you're I mean, I'm almost teary eyed, thank you

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Speaker 1: so much for seeing that. I forgot about that email actually,

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Speaker 1: and I actually can't believe that that was one of

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Speaker 1: the My show was one of the first podcasts you've done,

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Speaker 1: because you're, I mean, you're so natural at it. So

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Speaker 1: I'm not surprised that you have your own show and

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Speaker 1: it's rocking because you've definitely found one of your callings

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Speaker 1: when it comes to interviews and whatnot. I know you're

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Speaker 1: doing a ton of different things, but I hope you're

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Speaker 1: enjoying it because it's so fun.

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Speaker 3: I love it. It is so much fun.

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Speaker 2: And I remember you saying that to me. You're like,

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Speaker 2: even if you know you get one or two listeners,

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Speaker 2: it doesn't even matter, Like, just start, you'll have the

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Speaker 2: best time ever. And now that's what I tell other

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Speaker 2: people who are like, I'm wondering if I should start

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Speaker 2: a podcast. But you were just so generous, even though

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Speaker 2: there was no reason for you to do that, I'd

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Speaker 2: already done your interview, Like, you were just so kind

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Speaker 2: and giving. And I always think, you know, in so

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Speaker 2: many times in your life, like you just mentioned finding

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Speaker 2: something that I, you know, love and I'm good at.

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Speaker 2: Without your push in the right direction, I couldn't have

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Speaker 2: found that because I wouldn't have known, because I wouldn't

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Speaker 2: have started interviewing people. And so I think in anyone's path, yay,

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Speaker 2: you know, we go through all the different twists and

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Speaker 2: turns and people and pivotal moments, and that email and

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Speaker 2: your response was one of them for me.

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Speaker 3: So thank you so so much.

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Speaker 1: Well received.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely so it's like a full circle on the show.

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Speaker 2: Now my book and your book, Oh my gosh, I

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Speaker 2: am so so thrilled, but as you know. The way

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Speaker 2: I've developed the whole structure of the show is that

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Speaker 2: because people often encounter you now knowing so much about

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Speaker 2: mental fitness and strategies to live your best life and

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Speaker 2: have now become a published author and have an incredibly

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Speaker 2: successful podcast, it's so easy to assume that you were

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Speaker 2: born enlightened and that you always knew you would end

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Speaker 2: up here, and that you know you've this was a

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Speaker 2: logical pathway for you. But I definitely want to dive

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Speaker 2: all the way deep into the book, and I still

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Speaker 2: I also can't believe that I'm in it. It blows

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Speaker 2: me away. I just want to cry, but which we

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Speaker 2: will get to sure. But I think what I love

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Speaker 2: most is tracing back from like childhood mark and filling

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Speaker 2: the gap of between you know, the first time you

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Speaker 2: ever thought about having a job and what that would

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Speaker 2: mean to the job you're in now. There's always so

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Speaker 2: much stuff in between that often doesn't make sense at

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Speaker 2: the time, and that it never follows a linear path.

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Speaker 2: But I love reminding everyone that if they haven't found

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Speaker 2: their pathway yet, you know, most people don't straight away

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Speaker 2: on their first or second or even third goes. And

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Speaker 2: I like You've done so many interesting but totally unrelated things,

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Speaker 2: so definitely want to cover that. But first ice breaker, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: what is the most down to earth thing about you?

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Speaker 1: Ooh, down to earth thing about me? I think just

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Speaker 1: I really try to be as present as possible, And

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Speaker 1: presence comes to mind right now because it's something that

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Speaker 1: I've been working so hard on, especially with everything going

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Speaker 1: on that you know, just you know, being here with

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Speaker 1: you and experiencing your energy and this conversation and the

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Speaker 1: questions and all of that. I mean, for me, if

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Speaker 1: I can offer that in all experiences, and obviously I'm

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Speaker 1: not perfect and I fail at this all the time,

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Speaker 1: but that's the thing I hope people leave with and think, wow,

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Speaker 1: that was you know, he was really present, and I

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Speaker 1: feel more energized after being you know, with him for example.

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Speaker 1: I mean, that's that's my ultimate goal. I don't care

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Speaker 1: what I'm doing. If I can leave someone more energized

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Speaker 1: than when they came in, then that puts a smile

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Speaker 1: on my face.

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Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, you absolutely doing it. Like for people

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Speaker 2: who can't see the video yet, which will come out eventually,

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Speaker 2: but Mark and I like are just out smiling each

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Speaker 2: other all the time, Like, you've never seen two more smiley,

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Speaker 2: excitable people and we're just bouncing off in this like

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Speaker 2: weird circle of joy.

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Speaker 3: It's so exciting for me.

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Speaker 1: Sick.

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Speaker 3: But also you're.

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Speaker 2: Canadian, so you're automatically like the kindest, most loveliest person ever.

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Speaker 1: I love it.

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Speaker 2: Also, did you say you had Thanksgiving last week? Do

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Speaker 2: Canadians have a different Thanksgiving?

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Speaker 1: We did? Well. I mean, I'm only aware because the

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Speaker 1: one that's always made such a big deal about is

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Speaker 1: the US Thanksgiving. But yeah, ours was this past weekend,

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Speaker 1: so I don't know for the only country in the

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Speaker 1: world that has it at this time, but it's always

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Speaker 1: been this date. Wow, you're probably thrown off, like what

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Speaker 1: is he? Is he mixed up with his holidays?

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Speaker 2: I actually wasn't at all because I have no concept

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Speaker 2: of time at the moment, so I was like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: I mean it's probably Thanksgiving time exactly. But then I

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Speaker 2: was like, wait, I thought Thanksgiving was in November.

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Speaker 3: But it's so funny.

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Speaker 2: That's so Canadian of you to be like, oh, no,

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Speaker 2: this is Thanksgiving, but there's there's a different one. But

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Speaker 2: that's not that's not think that's the US Thanksgiving. I'm

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Speaker 2: so sorry, I treated that one as a default.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely not.

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Speaker 2: Canadian Thanksgiving is the default Thanksgiving.

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Speaker 1: That's funny.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So you're way to tell us about young Mark.

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Speaker 2: What were you like as a kid, What were you know,

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Speaker 2: the things that really lead you up before any of

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Speaker 2: those societal conceptions of things started to kind of blind

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Speaker 2: your judgment. What did you think you wanted to be

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Speaker 2: and what was your childhood like?

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Speaker 1: Oh, it's funny. I mean I try to think about

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Speaker 1: my childhood. You know. I'm in a men's group, so

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Speaker 1: so our childhood comes up often enough in that work,

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Speaker 1: and you know, a lot of the guys in the

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Speaker 1: group there's you know, unfortunately, there's there's trauma and there's

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Speaker 1: things like that that they're working through and processing, and

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Speaker 1: I just I don't have that. So I feel really grateful. Obviously,

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Speaker 1: I was brought up in a really loving household and

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Speaker 1: support of parents and whatnot, but raised and born and

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Speaker 1: lived and went university as well in like a really

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Speaker 1: small town and it was just you know, hanging out outside,

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Speaker 1: playing doing things like basketball. I was big into skateboarding

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Speaker 1: in the before university and whatnot, and just you know,

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Speaker 1: I can't remember what age I was, but definitely before

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Speaker 1: university and whatnot, that I would I'd spend the summers

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Speaker 1: going to the city which for any Canadians or anyone

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Speaker 1: that's been the Canada that you'd probably recognize Toronto. That's

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Speaker 1: our biggest city in the country, which is about four

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Speaker 1: hours away from where I grew up. And I would

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Speaker 1: spend the summers there or at least a month there

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Speaker 1: with an aunt and uncle. And that was my exposure

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Speaker 1: to like the business world and traffic, right, yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 1: And I remember coming in and be like six or

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Speaker 1: seven lanes of traffic and just thinking, wow, like this

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Speaker 1: is where things are happening, and just being so excited

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Speaker 1: about congestion essentially, which just ridiculous, right, But it opened

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Speaker 1: me up to this this whole other world that I

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Speaker 1: just wasn't exposed to, and that's I think gave me

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Speaker 1: a little bit of the you know, the curiosity around

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Speaker 1: business life and marketing and things like that, which is

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Speaker 1: what I ultimately went to university for and then ended

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Speaker 1: up moving and I lived in Toronto for quite some

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Speaker 1: time with completely different opinions of traffic. Obviously at an older.

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Speaker 2: Age, congestion really weighs off, you know, exactly off.

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Speaker 1: It's not ideal, but that's essentially that the path that

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Speaker 1: got me into that space. And then I spent about

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Speaker 1: a decade in the corporate world before jumping into what

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Speaker 1: I'm doing now, which none of this, I mean, I

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Speaker 1: never would have imagined being an advocate for mental fitness

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Speaker 1: or mental health, like I didn't even really know what

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Speaker 1: that stuff was. Frankly at that age, definitely never thought

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Speaker 1: I would have ever had a you know, any type

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Speaker 1: of podcast, or was interviewing people, or for sure writing

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Speaker 1: a book. The closest I've ever come to having excitement

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Speaker 1: about writing, I was young and I had my parents

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Speaker 1: had this all typewriter from I guess when they were kids,

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Speaker 1: and I remember finding it and pulling it out and

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Speaker 1: just slapping on the keys, and I was trying to

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Speaker 1: write some sort of you know, fictional story with ultimate failure.

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Speaker 1: Like it sucked, it was, but I remember thinking, I'm like, wow,

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Speaker 1: I love to write a book one day and it

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Speaker 1: kind of stopped there and here we are.

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Speaker 3: So wow, oh my gosh.

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Speaker 2: I think looking back at the different chapters and like

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Speaker 2: the times that you spent in each thing. It's so

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Speaker 2: interesting that that decade of corporate was so different. I mean,

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Speaker 2: I expected, coming into your life now that there would

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Speaker 2: have been a much earlier interest in health or sports science.

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Speaker 3: Or you know, anything kind of related.

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Speaker 2: But it was sales for biotech and pharmacy, and then

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Speaker 2: business analyst and then brand manager and marketing and like

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Speaker 2: such a different world. And I think sometimes people look

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Speaker 2: back at chapters that don't make sense and lament the

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Speaker 2: waste of time that that was. But I'm sure that

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Speaker 2: that ten years maybe doesn't connect now. But if you'd

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Speaker 2: tried to start what you're doing now ten years earlier,

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Speaker 2: you couldn't have.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, there is a small connection that had nothing to

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Speaker 1: do with the work I was doing, because when I

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Speaker 1: came out of university, and I think I had a

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Speaker 1: couple jobs in between, starting in the farmer world. But

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Speaker 1: as you mentioned, I was hired in sales, and I

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Speaker 1: remember that time they would hire people in like batches, essentially,

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Speaker 1: and then you would go to in this case, we

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Speaker 1: were flown out to Montreal and that's where the Canadian

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Speaker 1: head office was and you'd spend four weeks at the

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Speaker 1: head office doing all this training. Depending on your degree

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Speaker 1: and kind of what you needed. But it was at

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Speaker 1: that moment where I remember thinking, well, I'm in a

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Speaker 1: sales role. We're all being trained essentially in the same way, Like,

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Speaker 1: how possibly could I stand out if if we're going

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Speaker 1: to and I'm in a sales role, so like, I mean,

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Speaker 1: there's obviously motivation to that. They had like trips and

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Speaker 1: wards and things like that, like how could I stand out?

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Speaker 1: And that's that's what started the journey into mental fitness.

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Speaker 1: I didn't know that at that time, but I got

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Speaker 1: up earlier and I started reading positive things and then

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Speaker 1: all of a sudden that positive content, you know, at

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Speaker 1: that time, I was reading like Success magazine, and it

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Speaker 1: was exposed to people like Tony Robbins and Robin Sharma

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Speaker 1: and all these different people. And over the years started seeing, Wow,

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Speaker 1: it doesn't matter what kind of content I'm consuming in

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Speaker 1: this space, one hundred percent of the people have some

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Speaker 1: sort of reflective practice. And I was gravitating towards journaling.

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Speaker 1: So throughout the eight or nine years in that world,

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Speaker 1: you know, just navigating job changes and life disruptions and

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Speaker 1: all these different things, I would get up early, I'd

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Speaker 1: bring in that content for me. I was gravitating towards

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Speaker 1: the questions that all these people were reflecting on. I'd

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Speaker 1: write those down and then I would reflect on them

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Speaker 1: the next morning to my own practice in relation to

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Speaker 1: where I was at in my life. I did that

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Speaker 1: for you years, years, until getting frustrated with the tools.

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Speaker 1: And that's where we met. Was at that kind of

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Speaker 1: junction in my life when I left that world.

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Speaker 2: Oh, that's so fascinating and it's funny how like really,

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Speaker 2: when you look at things, the seeds get planted like

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Speaker 2: so far into the past that you don't realize at

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Speaker 2: the time. So exciting, but later when you connect the dots,

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Speaker 2: it's like, oh my god, it makes sense. That started

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Speaker 2: way before I thought it actually did. Yeah, and I

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Speaker 2: was reading it you also did. I mean, there's just

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Speaker 2: so many different cool things that you've done. You were

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Speaker 2: with photographers without Borders doing photography for a water charity

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Speaker 2: in Senegal, Like, how did that come about?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? Well so, and that's funny too, because that's I

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Speaker 1: would say photography, and I picked up for photography when

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Speaker 1: I was in university. That's probably the moment that introduced

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Speaker 1: me to mindfulness without even knowing that that was happening,

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Speaker 1: because I mean even now I take well, I mean

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Speaker 1: I take photos with my phone like every other human

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Speaker 1: on the planet. But you know, that was the first

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Speaker 1: moment where I started noticing the detail in you know,

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Speaker 1: the shadows or the light or the exposures and things

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Speaker 1: like that. And now, I mean, photographer has given me

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Speaker 1: the greatest gift I could ever ask for. I can't

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Speaker 1: go anywhere without seeing the photo or that composition, right,

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Speaker 1: which again just allows you to step into the present

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Speaker 1: moment and see the detail. So it you know, it

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Speaker 1: started in university and I just I kept you know,

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Speaker 1: it's kind of self taught. Ironically. I was following someone

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Speaker 1: by the name of Chase Jarvis, who's won a profile

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Speaker 1: in the book, and that's how I learned photography because

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Speaker 1: he was a globally renowned photographer and I was just

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Speaker 1: following all those online you know, courses and his teachings

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Speaker 1: and stuff like that. And then eventually I was I

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Speaker 1: was exposed to this Photographers without Borders, and it was

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Speaker 1: such an amazing opportunity. I got the company, the Time

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Speaker 1: of Artists that I was working for to help sponsor

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Speaker 1: me to go, and I took every I think it

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Speaker 1: was a three week trip and we went to Sinegal

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Speaker 1: and I went with a company called Water Charity, not

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Speaker 1: Charity Water. There's two of them, essentially water Charity that

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Speaker 1: have the same name, and they needed someone to essentially,

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Speaker 1: you know, document and capture all of the projects that

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Speaker 1: they had going on on the ground so that people

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Speaker 1: could see, you know, the effects and the villages. And

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Speaker 1: it was just such I mean, I'll never forget that experience.

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Speaker 1: I mean, just meeting the happiest people I've probably met

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Speaker 1: to this day that have just nothing right, nothing in

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Speaker 1: art sense of the sense of the world, but you know,

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Speaker 1: they they they're just so grateful for what they do

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Speaker 1: have and the sense of community and the smiles, you know,

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Speaker 1: capturing that through the lens was just I'll never forget that.

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Speaker 2: It's so funny that you say that because so many people,

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Speaker 2: I think during our trip to Rwanda, and I think

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Speaker 2: we spoke about this on your podcast, that was the

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Speaker 2: exact reflection I had. Was the I expected the reverse

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Speaker 2: reflection of, you know, being overwhelmed by how much we

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Speaker 2: have and how grateful I am for you know, comparing

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Speaker 2: to what little they had. But actually I saw like

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Speaker 2: a more pure happiness that I had never seen back home,

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Speaker 2: just joy with small things. And I think that's such

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Speaker 2: a common reflection for people traveling to countries like this

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Speaker 2: and expecting to feel like we have so much and

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Speaker 2: they have so little, but actually you get exposed to

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Speaker 2: such a deeper gratitude than you've probably ever thought about before.

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Speaker 1: For sure.

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Speaker 2: Interesting for separating happiness from stuff.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, well, and what I really liked about the

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Speaker 1: objective of the trip was that, you know, because we're

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Speaker 1: used to seeing kind of the world vision style photos,

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Speaker 1: you know, and usually at least back in the day,

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Speaker 1: at least when I was growing up, that you would

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Speaker 1: see a lot of the sad faces, and the strategy

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Speaker 1: was around and you know, the sadness and helping people

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Speaker 1: out of that, which is which is valid. But the

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Speaker 1: charity that I was going over with wanted to show

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Speaker 1: the happiness that was being brought because of you know,

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Speaker 1: a well that was doug or some sort of water

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Speaker 1: system that was set up. So it was just, you know,

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Speaker 1: kind of a combination of two really magical things. To

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Speaker 1: be able to capture that and feel that from these

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Speaker 1: villages and hopefully, I mean those those images still live

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Speaker 1: on and they're using them, hopefully you know, it motivates

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Speaker 1: others to step in and help and bring that you know,

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Speaker 1: that joy and that happiness and that health to so

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Speaker 1: many more people. So it's yeah, I often think about

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Speaker 1: that trip and it's something I'd love to do again

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Speaker 1: at any moment. Frankly, well once this world opens up.

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Speaker 2: It's also so interesting that you know those experiences, and

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Speaker 2: I think they're often the ones that aren't related to

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Speaker 2: a career you want to have forever. Like I'm sure

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Speaker 2: whether you wanted to be a photographer or thought that

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Speaker 2: was going to be your full time vocation. But sometimes

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Speaker 2: unless something directly aligns with our future goal, we dismiss

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Speaker 2: it as like, oh, well, what's that going to give me?

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Speaker 2: Like it's not towards the ultimate dream. But I think

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Speaker 2: those activities you do for breadth are actually indirectly more

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Speaker 2: valuable than anything that you could do that's just like

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Speaker 2: immediately clear what the benefit is going to be at

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Speaker 2: the time. How do you feel about that kind of

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Speaker 2: idea of making time for stuff that isn't necessarily productive

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Speaker 2: for your ultimate goal but kind of also is I'm

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Speaker 2: being so inarticulate, but do you know what I mean?

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Speaker 1: No, No, I know exactly what you mean. And I

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Speaker 1: actually experienced that because I remember, you know, I was

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Speaker 1: still in my regular job, which I was I was

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Speaker 1: quite happy with. I enjoyed the people and what we

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Speaker 1: were doing. But I had this little photography thing on

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Speaker 1: the side that every now and then I would shoot

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Speaker 1: like a wedding or like some family portraits or something like.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't you know, I think crazy in terms of income,

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Speaker 1: but mentally I was trying. It's like I want or

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Speaker 1: if I can get this going and then I can

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Speaker 1: go all in on on the photography, because it, you know,

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Speaker 1: really lights me up. But it came to a point

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Speaker 1: where I remember just feeling like even thinking like that.

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Speaker 1: Or it was probably weddings, because those are the most

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Speaker 1: stressful things to ever shoot with your photographer. I'll never

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Speaker 1: forget those experiences. It's probably the weddings, but it was

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Speaker 1: it came down to, you know what I'm kind of

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Speaker 1: I'm robbing myself of the joy of this hobby and

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Speaker 1: and this art or this practice that I don't want

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Speaker 1: to lose, you know, the sense of excitement and like

436
00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:40,879
Speaker 1: the wonder and everything that brings to me. So I

437
00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:45,320
Speaker 1: actually stopped, you know, focusing on essentially creating another revenue

438
00:22:45,359 --> 00:22:47,560
Speaker 1: stream for me and my family and just you know

439
00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:50,520
Speaker 1: what I'm gonna I'm gonna shoot casually. And then like

440
00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:54,280
Speaker 1: our phones really were upgraded, and I remember just thinking, no,

441
00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:57,320
Speaker 1: we always have a phone. But I'm also still not

442
00:22:57,440 --> 00:23:00,920
Speaker 1: going to give up the the practice of slowing down

443
00:23:01,359 --> 00:23:03,280
Speaker 1: and you know, not just taking a photo to take

444
00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:05,960
Speaker 1: a photo, but like actually framing something even though I'm

445
00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:09,000
Speaker 1: not using a canon or Sony or something like that,

446
00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:12,080
Speaker 1: I'm using my film, but be present and conscious with

447
00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:15,440
Speaker 1: the practice and keep that up. And that I still

448
00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:19,080
Speaker 1: do to this day, and it's something I'm super grateful for.

449
00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:21,840
Speaker 2: I love that you brought up the idea that sometimes

450
00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:25,760
Speaker 2: commercializing a passion kills the joy in it. And you know,

451
00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:28,439
Speaker 2: so often people kind of get wrapped up in this

452
00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:30,320
Speaker 2: idea of you have to love your job or you

453
00:23:30,359 --> 00:23:32,640
Speaker 2: have to do as a job the thing that you love.

454
00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:36,520
Speaker 2: But for many people that actually kills what they love

455
00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:39,000
Speaker 2: most about it, like adding a brief and a deadline

456
00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:42,760
Speaker 2: and financial expectations, and it's actually okay to seize your

457
00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:45,520
Speaker 2: yea in a way that is totally separate from income.

458
00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:49,479
Speaker 2: In fact, sometimes that kind of allows you to maintain

459
00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:52,560
Speaker 2: the joy. So anyone listening, you know, give yourself permission

460
00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:55,000
Speaker 2: to decide, I don't need to do it as a job.

461
00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:57,560
Speaker 2: It's okay if that's on the side true, And it's

462
00:23:57,560 --> 00:23:59,640
Speaker 2: okay if you don't get that same level of yay

463
00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:01,959
Speaker 2: in what is your income producing activity as long as

464
00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:03,600
Speaker 2: you're finding that joy sort of somewhere.

465
00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:05,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you nailed it.

466
00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:09,800
Speaker 2: So then we get to nearly a decade after you graduated,

467
00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:14,600
Speaker 2: ten years later that this gigantic pivot kind of happened.

468
00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:18,080
Speaker 2: Did it feel like that at the time? How did

469
00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:18,679
Speaker 2: it happen?

470
00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:19,359
Speaker 1: Like?

471
00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:21,280
Speaker 2: I think sometimes also you look back and go, wow,

472
00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:23,520
Speaker 2: that was a really pivotal like sliding doors moment. But

473
00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:26,320
Speaker 2: in the moment, maybe it happened and unraveled in tiny

474
00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:28,320
Speaker 2: steps like how did KO begin?

475
00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:32,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's I mean, that's an interest interesting way to

476
00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:35,000
Speaker 1: think about it, because it definitely now in retrospect looking back,

477
00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:38,879
Speaker 1: looks like it feels like a massive pivot. And it

478
00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:41,600
Speaker 1: was because I really do feel like, other than you know,

479
00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:44,320
Speaker 1: my core values and whatnot, I feel like a completely

480
00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:47,480
Speaker 1: different person than I was eight or ten years ago.

481
00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:51,240
Speaker 1: And what essentially what transpired was again like that nearly

482
00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:56,040
Speaker 1: a decade of really having a consistent mental fitness practice

483
00:24:56,080 --> 00:24:59,480
Speaker 1: and seeing that be helpful for my own life, I

484
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:03,000
Speaker 1: started to grow really frustrated with the digital options that

485
00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:06,680
Speaker 1: were available for journaling because I was traveling a lot

486
00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:09,480
Speaker 1: and I typically would do my type of journaling a

487
00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:13,960
Speaker 1: reflection on a phone or on my iPad. And at

488
00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:16,560
Speaker 1: the time, some of the meditation apps were starting to

489
00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:19,560
Speaker 1: take off, like Calm and Headspace, and they were picking

490
00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:22,840
Speaker 1: up steam. So I remember thinking, Okay, it seems like

491
00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:27,000
Speaker 1: kind of the mainstream audience is starting to be okay

492
00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:31,240
Speaker 1: or open to being guided digitally, you know, in least

493
00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:33,919
Speaker 1: meditation in that space. But at that time, there was

494
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:39,160
Speaker 1: really nothing that existed for journaling to help start a practice.

495
00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:41,320
Speaker 1: And the way I was doing it was again like

496
00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:43,840
Speaker 1: I'd write a question down and then it started to

497
00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:46,919
Speaker 1: become so disconnected. I'd write a question down, I'd copy

498
00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:49,400
Speaker 1: it paste it into another app. I'm like, this is ridiculous.

499
00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:52,440
Speaker 1: There has to be a way more efficient way to

500
00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:55,920
Speaker 1: do this right, especially in that at that time, And

501
00:25:55,960 --> 00:26:00,360
Speaker 1: that's how the idea for Kio arose and I I'll

502
00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:02,280
Speaker 1: never forget the email. I wrote an email to my

503
00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:07,040
Speaker 1: brother in law, who you know, has been a lifelong entrepreneur,

504
00:26:07,119 --> 00:26:09,560
Speaker 1: so there was a bit of comfort there, I guess

505
00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:12,040
Speaker 1: you can say, or confidence there, you know, talking to

506
00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:15,680
Speaker 1: someone that's been in that space before. He also had

507
00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:18,560
Speaker 1: an IT company, which we laugh about to this day

508
00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:22,760
Speaker 1: that's nowhere near a developer kind of experience. So at

509
00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:24,960
Speaker 1: the time I was thinking, oh, yeah, he's got you know,

510
00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:28,679
Speaker 1: this IT company. He's doing websites and phone systems and

511
00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:31,520
Speaker 1: networks and stuff. I mean, surely he's got some experience

512
00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:34,680
Speaker 1: in this or can help. And anyway, I just sent

513
00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:37,200
Speaker 1: him an email with the frustrations and saying, Hey, would

514
00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:39,520
Speaker 1: you like to try building something to see if we

515
00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:42,159
Speaker 1: can you know, flirt with this idea and he said yes,

516
00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:44,600
Speaker 1: and so we started doing it and I started mind

517
00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:47,800
Speaker 1: mapping this app on the side kind of evenings and weekends,

518
00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:52,320
Speaker 1: until eventually, I remember we went to this conference in Montreal.

519
00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:55,600
Speaker 1: It was a conference called C two all on Creativity.

520
00:26:55,760 --> 00:27:00,159
Speaker 1: Super fun, really awesome experience. And while I was there

521
00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:02,320
Speaker 1: for the company, I was meeting with people but then

522
00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:05,880
Speaker 1: also pitching this concept for the app. And my brother

523
00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:07,439
Speaker 1: in law was there with me, so he was in

524
00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:09,359
Speaker 1: these meetings. So we were just trying to get a

525
00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:12,119
Speaker 1: pulse to see like what would people, you know, how

526
00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:14,600
Speaker 1: would they react to this? And he had a designer

527
00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:18,240
Speaker 1: on his team for his other work, so you know,

528
00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:20,399
Speaker 1: we didn't have a functional app. We essentially had a

529
00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:24,760
Speaker 1: mock up that was tappable, and as we would leave

530
00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:26,760
Speaker 1: these meetings, we say it'll be like, okay, Ken, we

531
00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:28,879
Speaker 1: got this feedback, can you shift this around. We're going

532
00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:31,040
Speaker 1: to try another one. And we were just essentially iterating

533
00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:34,760
Speaker 1: the app on the spot, and we got enough validation

534
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:39,919
Speaker 1: from those meetings to really cause a pause and think, Okay,

535
00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:42,320
Speaker 1: I mean, I think we've got something here. But I

536
00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:46,920
Speaker 1: knew enough in my own day job that to make

537
00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:50,359
Speaker 1: that successful, you know, there needed to be a pretty

538
00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:54,440
Speaker 1: big strategy or plan or some sort of marketing initiative

539
00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:56,920
Speaker 1: to really get this off the ground, because no one

540
00:27:57,040 --> 00:27:59,800
Speaker 1: was doing this in journaling at that time, and I

541
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:02,119
Speaker 1: know I couldn't do that and my day job at

542
00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:04,679
Speaker 1: the same time. So eventually it led to me leaving

543
00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:09,240
Speaker 1: that job in the pharmaceutical world and pursuing Kio full

544
00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:10,120
Speaker 1: time and.

545
00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:13,560
Speaker 2: Then growing it to I think like eighty six million

546
00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:19,400
Speaker 2: people being impacted. Wild idea, like what even is that

547
00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:23,720
Speaker 2: I don't know yet, Sarah, Oh, I feel like, yeah,

548
00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:25,760
Speaker 2: the dust probably still hasn't settled on that. But it's

549
00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:30,480
Speaker 2: so interesting that your background in business and brand management

550
00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:34,520
Speaker 2: is what really helped launch that with experience and with

551
00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:37,679
Speaker 2: skills and bringing so much to the table to to

552
00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:40,120
Speaker 2: Like I think at the time, you don't notice or

553
00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:42,920
Speaker 2: you don't realize necessarily how important those skills are, but

554
00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:45,240
Speaker 2: so much of what you learn in one context is

555
00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:48,040
Speaker 2: transferable to anything else that you do. So I'm sure

556
00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:50,560
Speaker 2: that a huge part of your success.

557
00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:54,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was. It definitely was because I mean I

558
00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:58,200
Speaker 1: was leaning on, you know, the skill set that you

559
00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:01,320
Speaker 1: felt comfortable with, or that I had developed obviously over

560
00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:04,680
Speaker 1: the years working on literally these hundred million dollar brands,

561
00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:09,480
Speaker 1: right and these products, And essentially what I brought over was, Okay,

562
00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:12,720
Speaker 1: well we're going to launch this app. You know, while

563
00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:16,440
Speaker 1: we're really frustrated with how long development's taking because that

564
00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:18,760
Speaker 1: we have zero experience and we're trying to figure this out.

565
00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:20,920
Speaker 1: We're going through all these dep teams. I mean, we're

566
00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:22,600
Speaker 1: not just going to sit back here and do nothing.

567
00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:26,600
Speaker 1: So I started working on building relationships and bringing in

568
00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:30,040
Speaker 1: you know, the right people with their content and obviously

569
00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:34,040
Speaker 1: you're a part of that, right and getting different perspectives

570
00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:38,400
Speaker 1: in this space, and so that when we launched the app,

571
00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:42,560
Speaker 1: we weren't launching an app to zero people. We already

572
00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:46,480
Speaker 1: had an audience, and we already had content that wasn't

573
00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:49,040
Speaker 1: necessarily coming from us, but we had content from all

574
00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:52,600
Speaker 1: these you know, studying humans that essentially we were linking

575
00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:55,800
Speaker 1: out to their work if people wanted to continue down

576
00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:58,320
Speaker 1: that path. So, you know, it seemed to make sense

577
00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:01,840
Speaker 1: as a as a collaboration strategy. And then I just

578
00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:05,680
Speaker 1: made sure from a brand perspective that you know, we

579
00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:09,880
Speaker 1: were really focus on the language of mental fitness. And

580
00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:12,680
Speaker 1: the reason for that was simple, people just you know,

581
00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:15,120
Speaker 1: there was so much talk around mental health, which is

582
00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:19,480
Speaker 1: unfortunately loaded full of stigma still, right, and mental fitness

583
00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:23,080
Speaker 1: was really you know that step in, well, I'm taking

584
00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:25,920
Speaker 1: action just like I do my physical fitness, right, And

585
00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:28,480
Speaker 1: so it was just like a more of a motivating term,

586
00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:31,640
Speaker 1: I guess you will, because for me, mental fitness, you know,

587
00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:36,080
Speaker 1: everything's under that mental health, mental resiliency, mental performance. So

588
00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:39,600
Speaker 1: it's not about ignoring any factors, but it just feels

589
00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:44,400
Speaker 1: more motivating and that you have more zest essentially to

590
00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:47,680
Speaker 1: you know, take that, take that step forward. So I

591
00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:50,200
Speaker 1: was just really focusing on that, and then the rest

592
00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:53,480
Speaker 1: of the team obviously we were doing everything possible to

593
00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:56,479
Speaker 1: make the app look beautiful and very apple Ish at

594
00:30:56,480 --> 00:30:58,520
Speaker 1: that time, and it started to get picked up by

595
00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:01,280
Speaker 1: Apple all around the world. That's what led to all

596
00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:02,640
Speaker 1: those app Store impressions.

597
00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:06,280
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, so incredible, Such a testament to just

598
00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:09,000
Speaker 2: your creativity and that you were really meant to be

599
00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:11,640
Speaker 2: on this pathway. And I love the idea that the

600
00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:16,440
Speaker 2: term mental fitness that's become so closely associated with everything

601
00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:20,600
Speaker 2: you do, elevates your mental health and like everything and

602
00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:23,840
Speaker 2: your mental processes to the same status as your physical fitness.

603
00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:25,600
Speaker 2: Like I think that's another thing that I like about

604
00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:29,160
Speaker 2: using fitness is that it's so associated with your body,

605
00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:33,000
Speaker 2: and we often don't treat our mind with the same

606
00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:35,719
Speaker 2: level of care. But I like that that word kind

607
00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:41,240
Speaker 2: of encompasses that whole concept so nicely well.

608
00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:43,520
Speaker 1: And I remember Sarah in one of our you know,

609
00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:45,720
Speaker 1: when we were trying to raise funding for the app,

610
00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:48,000
Speaker 1: one of the slides I had in the pitch deck

611
00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:52,640
Speaker 1: was linked to the physical fitness world and just showing

612
00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:57,320
Speaker 1: how mental fitness was was going to be parallel soon,

613
00:31:57,400 --> 00:32:00,760
Speaker 1: like we're getting to that point. And the the image

614
00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:03,360
Speaker 1: I had in the slide was of People magazine and

615
00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:07,040
Speaker 1: I think the seventies and it was what's the guy's name,

616
00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:09,880
Speaker 1: the guy from Baywatch and Jane Fonder or something, and

617
00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:13,200
Speaker 1: they were going jogging, and the caption was something like,

618
00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:16,600
Speaker 1: we're all going jogging. Everyone's doing it now, so like

619
00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:20,280
Speaker 1: at that time it was jogging and exercise outside is

620
00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:24,520
Speaker 1: essentially just taking off, right, So the point was we're

621
00:32:24,560 --> 00:32:28,040
Speaker 1: not you know, that's where mental fitness is right now,

622
00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:30,200
Speaker 1: and the super more than four years ago, but just

623
00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:32,960
Speaker 1: to try to show that, hey, now's the time to

624
00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:35,840
Speaker 1: get on board with this because and I really believe

625
00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:40,200
Speaker 1: this to this day. I mean, what motivates us and

626
00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:42,920
Speaker 1: tells us to go into the gym or run or

627
00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:46,800
Speaker 1: do the exercise are the decisions that our mind's making.

628
00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:50,080
Speaker 1: So for me, it all starts there. First.

629
00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:54,200
Speaker 2: You've really extended and expanded on that idea in the book,

630
00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:57,600
Speaker 2: which it's just such a valuable tool, particularly in this

631
00:32:58,120 --> 00:33:00,680
Speaker 2: climate where we're being our mental fitness is being challenged

632
00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:02,800
Speaker 2: more than it ever has. But I also want to

633
00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:05,000
Speaker 2: weave in a little bit of the next section is

634
00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:08,160
Speaker 2: your nati as all the challenges that kind of get

635
00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:09,560
Speaker 2: in the way of your joy along the way. And

636
00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:11,240
Speaker 2: it makes sense to kind of weave it in here

637
00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:13,720
Speaker 2: because I think you've moved from an industry where you

638
00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:16,200
Speaker 2: have so much experience. You studied for it, you have

639
00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:19,560
Speaker 2: a degree behind you, and like lots of different corporations

640
00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:23,000
Speaker 2: and businesses that you've worked with to back up. You know,

641
00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:25,880
Speaker 2: if you ever have feelings of doubt or lack of confidence,

642
00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:28,640
Speaker 2: you can talk yourself back around by I am experienced.

643
00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:32,080
Speaker 2: I deserve to be here moving into a totally new

644
00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:34,600
Speaker 2: industry with a brand new idea where not only have

645
00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:36,960
Speaker 2: you never done it before, but no one has really

646
00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:39,680
Speaker 2: done it before, but having to put yourself out there

647
00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:42,160
Speaker 2: with pictures and like investing a lot of money. I

648
00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:46,440
Speaker 2: think most you know, brand new business owners struggle more

649
00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:49,520
Speaker 2: with self doubt and the mental side of the challenge.

650
00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:52,120
Speaker 2: Then logistically you can physically figure out how to start

651
00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:52,520
Speaker 2: a business.

652
00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:53,880
Speaker 3: It's fitting your head around it.

653
00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:56,840
Speaker 2: How did you cope in those early days with like

654
00:33:56,920 --> 00:34:00,800
Speaker 2: the doubt or the fear, the risk and the massive

655
00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:03,320
Speaker 2: change from what you knew, Like the comfort zone, you know.

656
00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:07,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it was definitely terrifying in some respects.

657
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:11,239
Speaker 1: There's definitely many moments of fear even even now. But

658
00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:15,360
Speaker 1: the luxury of being in the space of mental fitness,

659
00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:19,239
Speaker 1: especially starting with the APP I mean I had, and

660
00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:22,320
Speaker 1: I'm so grateful for this, but I've had literally hundreds

661
00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:26,919
Speaker 1: of interviews with all of these incredible humans in all

662
00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:31,040
Speaker 1: of these different industries, in different spaces, providing the things

663
00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:33,600
Speaker 1: that they were doing to keep their mind healthy. So

664
00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:36,279
Speaker 1: for me, you know, when you're building the business in

665
00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:38,960
Speaker 1: that space, it's like that classic you have to practice

666
00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:41,320
Speaker 1: what you preach. And it was the same thing writing

667
00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:43,680
Speaker 1: the book, like I had to really rely on the

668
00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:47,799
Speaker 1: practices because like everyone listening, I'm human as well, and

669
00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:51,760
Speaker 1: you know, you fall into these comparison modes and in Okay,

670
00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:54,399
Speaker 1: well that app is ranking over here, they did this,

671
00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:57,200
Speaker 1: how come we can't get that funding? You know, like

672
00:34:57,280 --> 00:35:00,879
Speaker 1: it's easily to slip into those internal dialogue or those

673
00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:04,360
Speaker 1: looping thoughts. But again, just flipping back to these mental

674
00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:09,800
Speaker 1: fitness practices about Okay, if I know prioritize my health

675
00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:12,799
Speaker 1: mental and physical, if I meditate, if I bring in

676
00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:16,360
Speaker 1: some breath work, or I do some journaling and boost

677
00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:20,600
Speaker 1: myself awareness. Then I can catch these moments, pause a narrative,

678
00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:23,840
Speaker 1: release it, or rechannel it, and continue forward.

679
00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:28,080
Speaker 2: Essentially, I love the idea of pausing the narrative. It's

680
00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:31,000
Speaker 2: so valuable to remind yourself that the narrative is something

681
00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:34,120
Speaker 2: that you can actually you can control, like you can

682
00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:35,960
Speaker 2: observe it. I think I used to think I had

683
00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:38,439
Speaker 2: one level of thinking, but not that then I could

684
00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:41,319
Speaker 2: have thoughts and value judgments on those thoughts, and that

685
00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:44,839
Speaker 2: whole idea of metacognition, like what makes us different to

686
00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:47,520
Speaker 2: any other being in this universe is that humans can

687
00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:49,759
Speaker 2: think about their own thoughts, which also means that you

688
00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:52,480
Speaker 2: can stop the ones that are unproductive, which is just

689
00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:53,400
Speaker 2: like such a big.

690
00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:57,800
Speaker 1: Revelation for sure. Well, and then that you can zoom

691
00:35:57,800 --> 00:36:03,080
Speaker 1: out obviously and disastogotiate with maybe not disassociated that's the

692
00:36:03,080 --> 00:36:06,359
Speaker 1: wrong word, but just have enough of a separation that

693
00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:10,319
Speaker 1: you then start realizing that I am not just my

694
00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:13,880
Speaker 1: thoughts or I am not the anxiety. Here. There's something

695
00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:18,759
Speaker 1: I picked up from a meditation teacher, Jeff Warren. He

696
00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:22,400
Speaker 1: wrote he wrote a book called Meditation for Fidgety Skeptics,

697
00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:26,400
Speaker 1: which is the greatest title ever and he co authored

698
00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:29,279
Speaker 1: it with Dan Harris, who's the ABC News anchor in

699
00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:32,479
Speaker 1: the US. And I remember Jeff telling me about this,

700
00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:35,880
Speaker 1: this whole idea of you know, when people when you

701
00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:38,400
Speaker 1: have anxiety come up, or if you feel you know,

702
00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:41,759
Speaker 1: a depressive state coming up, or whatever, fear, uncertainty, whatever

703
00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:45,239
Speaker 1: those things are. You know, he provides labels to those

704
00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:47,840
Speaker 1: things or names, and it's like, welcome to the party.

705
00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:51,319
Speaker 1: So anxious Tom just walked into the room. You can

706
00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:54,000
Speaker 1: come in, we can talk a little bit, but then

707
00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:56,279
Speaker 1: you're going to have to leave type thing. And it's

708
00:36:56,360 --> 00:36:58,600
Speaker 1: just like, you know, even with the humor of that,

709
00:36:59,040 --> 00:37:02,960
Speaker 1: it just lightens the situation, right, And it's not anxious

710
00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:05,920
Speaker 1: Tom like taking over your life and that you're spinning

711
00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:10,000
Speaker 1: and looping for days on end, if not weeks or longer. Right,

712
00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:13,040
Speaker 1: And then that's when it becomes a problem. But when

713
00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:15,600
Speaker 1: you can acknowledge it and you're like, okay, thanks, I

714
00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:18,279
Speaker 1: get it. Obviously there's something here that I have to

715
00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:21,040
Speaker 1: deal with or process. But now you're gonna have to,

716
00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:23,320
Speaker 1: you know, grab a no derve and take off.

717
00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:27,600
Speaker 3: I loved that.

718
00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:30,000
Speaker 2: I actually highlighted that in the book that welcome to

719
00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:32,680
Speaker 2: the party kind of analogy, because it's such a good

720
00:37:32,719 --> 00:37:35,200
Speaker 2: way to visualize the idea that thoughts come and go

721
00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:38,680
Speaker 2: like they're not they don't consume your entire identity or

722
00:37:38,840 --> 00:37:40,920
Speaker 2: just come in the door, and then you can, you know,

723
00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:43,560
Speaker 2: politely show them the door and they can go all

724
00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:44,520
Speaker 2: the way back out.

725
00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:46,799
Speaker 1: Of the way. Absolutely everything is.

726
00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:51,960
Speaker 2: Impervan yes, totally. So then I think another really big

727
00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:54,480
Speaker 2: challenge for a lot of people along the way of

728
00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:57,840
Speaker 2: their journey is like steps that seem like steps backwards,

729
00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:00,719
Speaker 2: or times that things don't necessarily work out the way

730
00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:02,960
Speaker 2: that you want them to, and and coming to terms

731
00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:04,960
Speaker 2: with the idea that you know, I love quotes that

732
00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:07,680
Speaker 2: you know sometimes like things have to fall apart for

733
00:38:07,719 --> 00:38:10,000
Speaker 2: better things to come together, and like what seems like

734
00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:12,480
Speaker 2: a step backwards, there's always a learning that can propel

735
00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:14,799
Speaker 2: you forward, so that idea of like failing forwards. And

736
00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:18,680
Speaker 2: in the very early pages of Personal Socrates, in your intro,

737
00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:20,799
Speaker 2: you talk about the idea that Kio was like this

738
00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:23,560
Speaker 2: big jump and this big seizing of the a, and

739
00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:26,399
Speaker 2: you know, for three years it just kept growing exponentially

740
00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:29,400
Speaker 2: and felt like everything you were hitting all these goals

741
00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:33,680
Speaker 2: but then confronted this wall of what you felt what

742
00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:37,279
Speaker 2: felt like failure, but was actually just the seeds for

743
00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:40,560
Speaker 2: the next chapter. Because again, like your joy and your

744
00:38:40,680 --> 00:38:44,040
Speaker 2: ultimate you know, purpose in life is not static. Three

745
00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:46,880
Speaker 2: years later, you're a three years different person, so you

746
00:38:47,239 --> 00:38:49,839
Speaker 2: might have you know, things unravel in chapters. So talk

747
00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:53,719
Speaker 2: us through that whole idea of hitting these milestones, and.

748
00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:56,879
Speaker 1: Then I feel, I mean that was that was an

749
00:38:56,960 --> 00:38:59,799
Speaker 1: explosion of my world, I guess is how I could

750
00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:04,040
Speaker 1: just describe that because you know, just as we've been

751
00:39:04,040 --> 00:39:06,879
Speaker 1: talking about this massive number of eighty six point nine

752
00:39:06,920 --> 00:39:09,920
Speaker 1: million people, which is obviously a lot of App Store impressions,

753
00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:12,480
Speaker 1: and we had hundreds of thousands of downloads as well,

754
00:39:12,520 --> 00:39:14,640
Speaker 1: so we had a pretty big community in the app.

755
00:39:15,480 --> 00:39:19,279
Speaker 1: But just as we're as it sounds great right now,

756
00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:22,880
Speaker 1: which it was, we were also falling for that hype.

757
00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:25,320
Speaker 1: And you know, when we have these write ups in

758
00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:29,560
Speaker 1: these brand features and you know, collaborating with like Lego

759
00:39:29,680 --> 00:39:34,440
Speaker 1: and LinkedIn and Vaynermedia, there's this element of almost like

760
00:39:34,719 --> 00:39:39,320
Speaker 1: false sense of security that Okay, well, obviously if those

761
00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:41,880
Speaker 1: brands are behind us, or we're getting all these you know,

762
00:39:42,040 --> 00:39:43,879
Speaker 1: new apps we love or apps or of the day

763
00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:48,640
Speaker 1: that you know, we have to succeed here. But where

764
00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:51,440
Speaker 1: we weren't succeeding was the business model, you know, in

765
00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:55,279
Speaker 1: the financials. And I really I don't doubt that we

766
00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:59,480
Speaker 1: would have figured that out because we were on the

767
00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:02,960
Speaker 1: track to you know, iterate, continue to iterate the product

768
00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:06,920
Speaker 1: and whatnot. The difference though, and I think, you know

769
00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:10,520
Speaker 1: it's not I share that because if we would have

770
00:40:10,600 --> 00:40:13,120
Speaker 1: kept going, we probably would have turned it around. But

771
00:40:13,239 --> 00:40:17,520
Speaker 1: for whatever reason, at that time, personally, I had lost

772
00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:21,000
Speaker 1: the conviction to continue, you know, it was it was,

773
00:40:21,080 --> 00:40:23,680
Speaker 1: and that was the hardest thing to accept because somewhere

774
00:40:23,680 --> 00:40:27,800
Speaker 1: along the way, we had spent you know, a tremendous

775
00:40:27,840 --> 00:40:30,720
Speaker 1: amount of money and spent a tremendous amount of mental

776
00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:35,080
Speaker 1: capacity on this project or on this business, and I

777
00:40:35,239 --> 00:40:38,799
Speaker 1: lost the hope or desire to really push through kind

778
00:40:38,840 --> 00:40:41,520
Speaker 1: of that messy middle or push through to the other side.

779
00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:47,120
Speaker 1: And something just felt like, you know what, this chapter,

780
00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:51,239
Speaker 1: as you say, or this vehicle into mental fitness, which

781
00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:55,799
Speaker 1: was an app, doesn't feel right for me anymore. And

782
00:40:56,040 --> 00:40:59,080
Speaker 1: I knew that I was in the right space, so

783
00:40:59,160 --> 00:41:03,720
Speaker 1: that gave a slight amount of comfort, But because everything

784
00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:07,080
Speaker 1: else was exploding while that decision was being made. It

785
00:41:07,120 --> 00:41:09,600
Speaker 1: was enough to say, okay, you know what, like enough's

786
00:41:09,680 --> 00:41:11,480
Speaker 1: enough on this one. We're gonna we're gonna have to

787
00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:15,040
Speaker 1: shut this down, and I'll just I'll never forget, you know,

788
00:41:15,200 --> 00:41:17,720
Speaker 1: being I was in a coworking space in Toronto, Canada,

789
00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:20,239
Speaker 1: and I was looking at that number the Apple dashboard

790
00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:23,080
Speaker 1: with all the metrics and just thinking, can my next

791
00:41:23,120 --> 00:41:26,520
Speaker 1: step is going to is delete from app Store? And

792
00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:29,360
Speaker 1: then that's when all the wrong questions started to circulate,

793
00:41:29,480 --> 00:41:32,440
Speaker 1: like how could we fail at such a colossal level,

794
00:41:32,920 --> 00:41:36,080
Speaker 1: and like what would my ex colleagues think? Because I

795
00:41:36,160 --> 00:41:38,440
Speaker 1: left the job. That wasn't one of those snares where

796
00:41:38,440 --> 00:41:40,719
Speaker 1: I dreaded going into work. I mean, it was all

797
00:41:41,320 --> 00:41:43,080
Speaker 1: you know, more so I didn't I didn't want to

798
00:41:43,120 --> 00:41:46,440
Speaker 1: regret not trying this, and I just I remember the

799
00:41:46,480 --> 00:41:49,080
Speaker 1: fate their faces flashing in front of me, because I'll

800
00:41:49,160 --> 00:41:52,359
Speaker 1: never forget sitting at my desk telling people that you know,

801
00:41:52,719 --> 00:41:55,120
Speaker 1: I'm leaving in a month essentially, and there was just

802
00:41:55,200 --> 00:42:00,080
Speaker 1: such joy and excitement and like encouragement and almost the

803
00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:02,879
Speaker 1: sense of yeah, I have ideas like that too. I mean,

804
00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:05,480
Speaker 1: you're so courageous to go and do it, and then

805
00:42:05,520 --> 00:42:08,600
Speaker 1: now here I am. I'm deleting this business. And the

806
00:42:08,640 --> 00:42:13,600
Speaker 1: worst part was that my backup plan of returning back

807
00:42:13,640 --> 00:42:17,200
Speaker 1: to that industry also didn't feel right, because I what

808
00:42:17,400 --> 00:42:20,240
Speaker 1: felt one hundred percent right was this was this space

809
00:42:20,280 --> 00:42:23,400
Speaker 1: of mental fitness. But now I just deleted the vehicle

810
00:42:23,520 --> 00:42:25,600
Speaker 1: that was, you know, keeping me in there, and I

811
00:42:25,640 --> 00:42:29,400
Speaker 1: have no idea how I'm going to stay here and

812
00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:33,640
Speaker 1: what I'm going to do next. We're financially wrecked, We're

813
00:42:33,680 --> 00:42:36,920
Speaker 1: living in a place that was always supposed to be temporary,

814
00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:39,839
Speaker 1: so we don't even really like the area that we're

815
00:42:39,840 --> 00:42:41,759
Speaker 1: in in the house, and we had sold, you know,

816
00:42:41,760 --> 00:42:45,319
Speaker 1: with this beautiful condo Montreal and sold that, and so

817
00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:49,880
Speaker 1: everything just felt wrong and like it was exploding. And

818
00:42:49,920 --> 00:42:53,279
Speaker 1: there was just this fear in this this massive anxiety

819
00:42:53,280 --> 00:42:56,719
Speaker 1: that was causing me to feel sick, like physically sick

820
00:42:56,800 --> 00:43:00,839
Speaker 1: every morning during that period until I eventually could go

821
00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:05,320
Speaker 1: back to some of the practices and just the micro

822
00:43:05,520 --> 00:43:09,600
Speaker 1: moments of tapping into the present moment and deploying as

823
00:43:09,719 --> 00:43:13,560
Speaker 1: much gratitude as possible, even even something as simple as yeah,

824
00:43:13,560 --> 00:43:15,360
Speaker 1: I deleted the app, but I deleted the app on

825
00:43:15,360 --> 00:43:18,000
Speaker 1: the laptop that most people don't have access to or

826
00:43:18,040 --> 00:43:20,879
Speaker 1: don't have in the world. Like small things like that

827
00:43:21,480 --> 00:43:25,920
Speaker 1: just pause that narrative long enough to start asking questions again.

828
00:43:26,480 --> 00:43:28,520
Speaker 1: And then the question that arose was what do I

829
00:43:28,560 --> 00:43:31,359
Speaker 1: want from my life? And that sent me down a

830
00:43:31,400 --> 00:43:33,040
Speaker 1: new path essentially, Oh.

831
00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:35,439
Speaker 2: My gosh, there's so much to unpacking that I think

832
00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:39,560
Speaker 2: it's just so important firstly, to remember this kind of

833
00:43:39,680 --> 00:43:42,640
Speaker 2: process is such a beautiful example of the idea that

834
00:43:43,280 --> 00:43:47,240
Speaker 2: you know your why is unchanging. You found your why.

835
00:43:47,440 --> 00:43:49,720
Speaker 2: But I love that you use the word vehicle, because

836
00:43:49,719 --> 00:43:52,400
Speaker 2: I think we get too attached to the how, and

837
00:43:52,440 --> 00:43:54,279
Speaker 2: we think, oh, let go of the how. Then I've

838
00:43:54,360 --> 00:43:56,400
Speaker 2: let go of my why. But actually no, it's okay.

839
00:43:56,480 --> 00:43:59,960
Speaker 2: If like the method of delivering that purpose changes why,

840
00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:01,799
Speaker 2: I can be the same your whole life, but the

841
00:44:01,840 --> 00:44:04,640
Speaker 2: how has to change depending on what your life is doing.

842
00:44:04,680 --> 00:44:07,719
Speaker 2: And I also think that something that I need to

843
00:44:07,719 --> 00:44:09,880
Speaker 2: remind myself of always and I try to spend a

844
00:44:09,880 --> 00:44:12,360
Speaker 2: lot of time on in the show is the way

845
00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:14,759
Speaker 2: that success and failure is like two sides of the

846
00:44:14,800 --> 00:44:18,799
Speaker 2: same coin, is so inextrically related to perception. And so

847
00:44:19,080 --> 00:44:21,640
Speaker 2: the question I often ask people, is like, when you're

848
00:44:21,680 --> 00:44:24,320
Speaker 2: talking about success or failure, do you mean actual success

849
00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:26,400
Speaker 2: or failure or do you mean that people perceive you

850
00:44:26,440 --> 00:44:29,239
Speaker 2: to have succeeded or failed? And if you knew that

851
00:44:29,320 --> 00:44:31,680
Speaker 2: you could try something and fail and no one would

852
00:44:31,719 --> 00:44:33,560
Speaker 2: find out about it, It's like if a tree falls

853
00:44:33,560 --> 00:44:36,000
Speaker 2: in a wood and no one hears it didn't happen. No,

854
00:44:36,360 --> 00:44:38,960
Speaker 2: most people are not scared of failing. They don't think

855
00:44:39,000 --> 00:44:41,600
Speaker 2: that it would fundamentally change their self worth if they

856
00:44:41,640 --> 00:44:43,680
Speaker 2: knew no one would ever find out about it, So

857
00:44:43,760 --> 00:44:46,160
Speaker 2: no one's actually scared of failing. We're all scared of

858
00:44:46,200 --> 00:44:51,000
Speaker 2: people thinking that were a failure. And then then your

859
00:44:51,040 --> 00:44:54,160
Speaker 2: fundamental life values come into play. Of like you could

860
00:44:54,239 --> 00:44:58,440
Speaker 2: have pushed through and found objective success, But what would

861
00:44:58,440 --> 00:45:00,400
Speaker 2: that have cost you if it was making you so

862
00:45:00,520 --> 00:45:03,160
Speaker 2: unhappy every day? So that comes back to that quote

863
00:45:03,160 --> 00:45:05,080
Speaker 2: that I love of like if it cost to your peace,

864
00:45:05,560 --> 00:45:08,480
Speaker 2: it's too expensive, Like it doesn't matter how great the

865
00:45:08,520 --> 00:45:11,520
Speaker 2: successes and heights you could have taken KYO two if

866
00:45:11,560 --> 00:45:13,719
Speaker 2: you turned it around if you weren't in it every day,

867
00:45:13,760 --> 00:45:15,920
Speaker 2: Like what is the point of that exercise? And you

868
00:45:16,000 --> 00:45:20,440
Speaker 2: took control and like volunteered for a really shitty time

869
00:45:21,760 --> 00:45:23,560
Speaker 2: to kind of break something, to.

870
00:45:23,480 --> 00:45:24,800
Speaker 3: Put different pieces back together.

871
00:45:24,840 --> 00:45:28,960
Speaker 2: And I think that's the fundamental like practice that brings joys.

872
00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:30,879
Speaker 2: Being willing to go backwards a little bit.

873
00:45:30,840 --> 00:45:33,360
Speaker 1: Tough again, well, and it just there again, there's this

874
00:45:33,800 --> 00:45:37,240
Speaker 1: there was this sense of being on the right path

875
00:45:37,960 --> 00:45:40,960
Speaker 1: right and trusting I knew enough at that point again

876
00:45:41,040 --> 00:45:43,759
Speaker 1: because of all the practices and all the interviews to

877
00:45:44,239 --> 00:45:48,080
Speaker 1: really trust that the journey was going to play out

878
00:45:48,200 --> 00:45:51,000
Speaker 1: as it should and that I was on the right path.

879
00:45:52,320 --> 00:45:55,160
Speaker 1: But I needed to do everything possible to get back

880
00:45:55,200 --> 00:45:58,040
Speaker 1: to a healthy mind. And then then it just became

881
00:45:58,320 --> 00:46:01,640
Speaker 1: my full time job was was going to the gym

882
00:46:01,680 --> 00:46:06,560
Speaker 1: in the morning, meditating, journaling and getting my mind is

883
00:46:06,800 --> 00:46:10,640
Speaker 1: clear and as intentional as possible to then slowly start

884
00:46:10,640 --> 00:46:14,880
Speaker 1: taking the steps forward right. And that took time. I

885
00:46:14,880 --> 00:46:17,160
Speaker 1: mean that took It wasn't a matter of weeks. That

886
00:46:17,320 --> 00:46:19,640
Speaker 1: took months. And frankly, I mean I'm still on that

887
00:46:19,719 --> 00:46:26,439
Speaker 1: journey in many respects, but it feels so different, so different, right,

888
00:46:26,520 --> 00:46:29,000
Speaker 1: And I think what happens too when you go through

889
00:46:29,000 --> 00:46:32,920
Speaker 1: those wild moments or those big experiences in life and

890
00:46:32,960 --> 00:46:37,879
Speaker 1: your work and personally and professionally you can stack those

891
00:46:37,920 --> 00:46:40,560
Speaker 1: experiences on top of each other, right, and then now

892
00:46:40,600 --> 00:46:43,360
Speaker 1: it's okay, well I've been through that. I know I

893
00:46:43,400 --> 00:46:46,839
Speaker 1: can handle that. So now you have this new sense

894
00:46:46,880 --> 00:46:49,759
Speaker 1: of confidence that, Okay, well, sure I'll try this whole

895
00:46:49,760 --> 00:46:52,279
Speaker 1: book journey, or I'll try this, or I'll try that, right,

896
00:46:52,360 --> 00:46:56,560
Speaker 1: because I've proven to myself that I can get through it,

897
00:46:56,800 --> 00:47:00,880
Speaker 1: and most importantly, that I have the community of friends

898
00:47:00,920 --> 00:47:05,440
Speaker 1: and family and people like yourself that will will support right, Like,

899
00:47:05,480 --> 00:47:08,319
Speaker 1: we're not in this alone and other people have gone

900
00:47:08,360 --> 00:47:11,440
Speaker 1: through this and will continue to go through this. But

901
00:47:11,760 --> 00:47:13,520
Speaker 1: you know, as long as we keep trying right and

902
00:47:13,600 --> 00:47:17,000
Speaker 1: we're still curious and we're having fun along the way,

903
00:47:17,120 --> 00:47:20,880
Speaker 1: then I mean, it just mixed life so much more enjoyable.

904
00:47:20,480 --> 00:47:24,480
Speaker 2: So much, so much and talking about curiosity. That is

905
00:47:24,719 --> 00:47:28,200
Speaker 2: the basis of this beautiful new book. The concept is

906
00:47:28,239 --> 00:47:31,960
Speaker 2: just continually asking the right questions in life, which I

907
00:47:32,120 --> 00:47:35,160
Speaker 2: just loved reading it and I'm going to read it

908
00:47:35,239 --> 00:47:37,839
Speaker 2: many many times over. There's so much packed into it.

909
00:47:38,600 --> 00:47:42,160
Speaker 2: Talk to us about the process of writing personal Socrates,

910
00:47:42,239 --> 00:47:45,200
Speaker 2: and for anyone who doesn't already know, because it's not

911
00:47:45,239 --> 00:47:47,960
Speaker 2: an automatic assumption that people know who Socrates is and

912
00:47:48,000 --> 00:47:50,319
Speaker 2: the Socratic method. I only know about the Socratic method

913
00:47:50,360 --> 00:47:54,040
Speaker 2: because law school. You know, how did the ideas formulate?

914
00:47:54,080 --> 00:47:56,640
Speaker 2: And then how did you choose the questions. It's a

915
00:47:56,800 --> 00:48:00,960
Speaker 2: beautifully structured book, all around key fundamental, with a different

916
00:48:01,800 --> 00:48:05,600
Speaker 2: guest or case study or interviewee that encapsulates that idea

917
00:48:06,200 --> 00:48:09,160
Speaker 2: from your personal life to work to family and relationships,

918
00:48:09,160 --> 00:48:11,480
Speaker 2: all kind of different areas and everyone from like Jane

919
00:48:11,520 --> 00:48:14,759
Speaker 2: Austin to Picasso and then Samantha gash Or we all know,

920
00:48:14,880 --> 00:48:17,600
Speaker 2: Natalie Warner who we all know, Melissa Embrassini who we

921
00:48:17,640 --> 00:48:20,200
Speaker 2: all know big members of the neighborhood. And there's also

922
00:48:20,239 --> 00:48:24,240
Speaker 2: a chapter on yours, trul I just blows my mind.

923
00:48:24,360 --> 00:48:27,840
Speaker 2: But talk us through the method and the book.

924
00:48:28,120 --> 00:48:31,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I mean ironically it comes straight back to

925
00:48:31,880 --> 00:48:34,360
Speaker 1: the more I'm talking about it, the more it's becoming

926
00:48:34,400 --> 00:48:37,560
Speaker 1: a parent. It comes right back to how my practice

927
00:48:37,600 --> 00:48:41,200
Speaker 1: started eight or nine years ago, which was listening for

928
00:48:41,360 --> 00:48:45,560
Speaker 1: questions as I was consuming knowledge, whether that was books, podcast,

929
00:48:45,640 --> 00:48:49,719
Speaker 1: blogs and magazines, taking those questions and then using them

930
00:48:49,760 --> 00:48:54,319
Speaker 1: on my own reflection, which translated into kio obviously, and

931
00:48:54,520 --> 00:48:57,640
Speaker 1: it was the same idea was to share different perspectives

932
00:48:57,640 --> 00:49:01,040
Speaker 1: and stories to show people that this stuff is accessible

933
00:49:01,080 --> 00:49:04,920
Speaker 1: to anyone. It's not just you know, for a meditation

934
00:49:05,280 --> 00:49:09,040
Speaker 1: instructor or yoga coach or yoga instructor. I mean, anyone

935
00:49:09,080 --> 00:49:12,120
Speaker 1: can do this stuff. So you know, when the app

936
00:49:12,320 --> 00:49:14,640
Speaker 1: was shut down, like I said, I knew I was

937
00:49:14,640 --> 00:49:17,760
Speaker 1: in the right space, and I knew, especially in this case,

938
00:49:17,840 --> 00:49:22,839
Speaker 1: that if I was able to pause the scenario that

939
00:49:22,960 --> 00:49:26,279
Speaker 1: was literally driving me into a deep depression with one

940
00:49:26,440 --> 00:49:30,759
Speaker 1: question that I have to continue in some capacity to

941
00:49:30,840 --> 00:49:35,480
Speaker 1: expose the concept of using questions for mental fitness. Because

942
00:49:35,480 --> 00:49:38,680
Speaker 1: we're all asking questions all the time, right, It's just

943
00:49:38,719 --> 00:49:40,880
Speaker 1: a matter are we asking the right questions? Are they

944
00:49:40,960 --> 00:49:44,520
Speaker 1: quality questions? Are they well timed? Right? For me was

945
00:49:45,120 --> 00:49:47,120
Speaker 1: what do I want for my life? That was the

946
00:49:47,280 --> 00:49:49,640
Speaker 1: big question, and then that, you know, led to other

947
00:49:49,719 --> 00:49:52,399
Speaker 1: ones which were, okay, well, if that's what I want,

948
00:49:52,440 --> 00:49:55,560
Speaker 1: like what does an ideal day look like? Who can

949
00:49:55,640 --> 00:49:58,120
Speaker 1: help me with that? What projects would make sense? You know,

950
00:49:58,600 --> 00:50:02,400
Speaker 1: what does that look like? And you know, our questions

951
00:50:02,440 --> 00:50:04,520
Speaker 1: evolved because if I were to ask that same question

952
00:50:04,560 --> 00:50:06,759
Speaker 1: to myself right now, it would serve as a nice

953
00:50:06,880 --> 00:50:09,840
Speaker 1: check in. But it's not at the same kind of

954
00:50:09,960 --> 00:50:14,359
Speaker 1: intensity level as pausing a depression essentially or avoiding one.

955
00:50:14,920 --> 00:50:17,919
Speaker 1: So that's where you know, the realization was made that

956
00:50:18,320 --> 00:50:20,359
Speaker 1: no matter where we're at in life, no matter what

957
00:50:20,400 --> 00:50:23,400
Speaker 1: we're doing, we're all one question away from a completely

958
00:50:23,400 --> 00:50:28,480
Speaker 1: different path. Right at any point, including the micro moments

959
00:50:28,560 --> 00:50:31,000
Speaker 1: where you know, we might be triggered or stressed about

960
00:50:31,000 --> 00:50:34,200
Speaker 1: a conversation or an email that came in, one question

961
00:50:34,280 --> 00:50:38,719
Speaker 1: around gratitude can completely pause and reshift our mood instantly.

962
00:50:39,280 --> 00:50:43,200
Speaker 1: So you know, that was the premise behind the concept

963
00:50:43,200 --> 00:50:47,000
Speaker 1: of the book. And I, like probably most people listening

964
00:50:47,080 --> 00:50:50,239
Speaker 1: right now, you know who aren't you know, studying in

965
00:50:50,280 --> 00:50:54,040
Speaker 1: philosophy or don't have a graduate degree in philosophy, only

966
00:50:54,120 --> 00:50:56,560
Speaker 1: knew that, Okay, as Socrates, he's the guy that asked

967
00:50:56,640 --> 00:50:59,319
Speaker 1: questions like that was kind of the baseline of my knowledge.

968
00:50:59,719 --> 00:51:01,759
Speaker 1: And I remember I was having a conversation with the

969
00:51:01,840 --> 00:51:05,399
Speaker 1: now publisher and the founder of that company, Joey from

970
00:51:05,440 --> 00:51:09,400
Speaker 1: Baron fig explaining essentially what the you know, what my

971
00:51:09,520 --> 00:51:12,400
Speaker 1: work's always been over the years, and the concept of

972
00:51:12,440 --> 00:51:14,239
Speaker 1: the book and whatnot or what I was writing about,

973
00:51:14,239 --> 00:51:16,279
Speaker 1: and he's like, oh, yeah, the Socratic method like the

974
00:51:16,360 --> 00:51:20,840
Speaker 1: Socratic what Yeah, And of course he has a minor

975
00:51:20,880 --> 00:51:23,879
Speaker 1: in philosophy and a major in English, so he got it.

976
00:51:23,960 --> 00:51:28,080
Speaker 1: But as I started researching and really like digging past

977
00:51:28,120 --> 00:51:33,600
Speaker 1: the surface of who Socrates was, it became really apparent

978
00:51:33,920 --> 00:51:37,399
Speaker 1: that this is exactly what's happening, because you know, all

979
00:51:37,440 --> 00:51:40,360
Speaker 1: the questions that were being left on the podcast and

980
00:51:40,400 --> 00:51:44,120
Speaker 1: through the app, they're following that Socratic method of asking

981
00:51:44,120 --> 00:51:46,880
Speaker 1: a big question and then asking follow up clarity seeking

982
00:51:46,920 --> 00:51:51,200
Speaker 1: type questions and unpacking things. And the thing that struck

983
00:51:51,280 --> 00:51:54,239
Speaker 1: me was that here's a guy Socrates literally born in

984
00:51:54,360 --> 00:51:58,359
Speaker 1: four sixty nine BC, and a method that has I mean,

985
00:51:58,400 --> 00:52:02,520
Speaker 1: you're exposed to going to law school. I mean it's

986
00:52:02,640 --> 00:52:05,239
Speaker 1: literally stood the test of time and we're all using

987
00:52:05,280 --> 00:52:07,759
Speaker 1: in some capacity, but we don't even realize we're doing that.

988
00:52:08,400 --> 00:52:12,399
Speaker 1: And I remember coming across these these question types that

989
00:52:12,719 --> 00:52:15,080
Speaker 1: different scholars and whatnot had studied, and I'm like, well,

990
00:52:15,080 --> 00:52:17,319
Speaker 1: this is the reason we don't know we're doing this,

991
00:52:17,440 --> 00:52:21,200
Speaker 1: because who can remember these question types of that I'd

992
00:52:21,239 --> 00:52:23,640
Speaker 1: have to literally open the book to list all six

993
00:52:23,680 --> 00:52:25,920
Speaker 1: out for you. So I'm like, there's the problem. So

994
00:52:26,120 --> 00:52:28,879
Speaker 1: is there a way to take the method that's been

995
00:52:28,880 --> 00:52:32,080
Speaker 1: around that clearly works. Is there a way to modernize

996
00:52:32,120 --> 00:52:35,000
Speaker 1: that and make it so accessible to be, you know,

997
00:52:35,160 --> 00:52:38,759
Speaker 1: applied to our daily lives. And that's essentially what got

998
00:52:38,840 --> 00:52:42,480
Speaker 1: me all excited, like, yeah, we absolutely have to use

999
00:52:42,520 --> 00:52:45,200
Speaker 1: this as the backbone of the book and structure the

1000
00:52:45,200 --> 00:52:50,160
Speaker 1: book in a way of get clear first questions around clarity.

1001
00:52:50,680 --> 00:52:52,600
Speaker 1: Then when you're clear and know where you're heading, you

1002
00:52:52,640 --> 00:52:54,920
Speaker 1: know who you're trying to become or where you want

1003
00:52:54,960 --> 00:52:57,399
Speaker 1: to go, then you can act and think with more

1004
00:52:57,400 --> 00:53:00,640
Speaker 1: intention and provide questions that can help there. And if

1005
00:53:00,640 --> 00:53:03,640
Speaker 1: you're doing those those first two steps, the third one

1006
00:53:03,840 --> 00:53:06,800
Speaker 1: almost comes by default or you're really set up because

1007
00:53:06,800 --> 00:53:10,680
Speaker 1: then now you're expanding what's possible or opportunities are showing

1008
00:53:10,760 --> 00:53:13,719
Speaker 1: up because you can see right. It's no different than

1009
00:53:13,760 --> 00:53:16,640
Speaker 1: if you open up a door into a room and

1010
00:53:16,680 --> 00:53:19,560
Speaker 1: that the room is jammed floor to ceiling with boxes.

1011
00:53:20,040 --> 00:53:22,560
Speaker 1: You can't see the back of the room or you

1012
00:53:22,640 --> 00:53:25,240
Speaker 1: can't see if there's a window or another door until

1013
00:53:25,239 --> 00:53:28,120
Speaker 1: you start cleaning up the room. And unfortunate, our minds

1014
00:53:28,120 --> 00:53:32,720
Speaker 1: are like that right, with emotions and relationships and massive

1015
00:53:32,760 --> 00:53:34,879
Speaker 1: amount of decisions. So if we can clean that up

1016
00:53:35,239 --> 00:53:38,680
Speaker 1: which then we allow our minds to do you know,

1017
00:53:38,920 --> 00:53:42,360
Speaker 1: the magic and connect the dots because we have the answers, They're.

1018
00:53:42,200 --> 00:53:44,000
Speaker 3: All there totally.

1019
00:53:44,120 --> 00:53:46,560
Speaker 2: And I love even like the cover, the fact that

1020
00:53:47,000 --> 00:53:49,719
Speaker 2: there's a question mark but it's a key. It's like

1021
00:53:49,760 --> 00:53:51,480
Speaker 2: a question mark in the shape of a key, and

1022
00:53:51,520 --> 00:53:56,200
Speaker 2: the whole idea that these questions unlock, you know, aspects

1023
00:53:56,200 --> 00:53:58,400
Speaker 2: of yourself by like I think often we do we

1024
00:53:58,440 --> 00:54:01,160
Speaker 2: only search for answers, but it's like you're if you're

1025
00:54:01,160 --> 00:54:04,600
Speaker 2: only asking the wrong questions, the answers are irrelevant. You

1026
00:54:04,760 --> 00:54:07,920
Speaker 2: only you know, you'll only keep getting the same results.

1027
00:54:07,920 --> 00:54:11,640
Speaker 2: And I think that's the biggest kind of change in

1028
00:54:11,680 --> 00:54:15,920
Speaker 2: my life was asking things that didn't really matter to

1029
00:54:16,000 --> 00:54:18,040
Speaker 2: my ultimate joy and then wondering why I was never

1030
00:54:18,040 --> 00:54:19,759
Speaker 2: getting any further. And it's because I had to change

1031
00:54:19,800 --> 00:54:22,440
Speaker 2: the question, not change the answer. It's such a just

1032
00:54:22,480 --> 00:54:26,360
Speaker 2: a beautiful, simple way to actually change the way fundamentally

1033
00:54:26,400 --> 00:54:29,560
Speaker 2: that you think about things. Are there any like favorite

1034
00:54:29,680 --> 00:54:33,920
Speaker 2: chapters or big takeaway things that like So this is

1035
00:54:34,400 --> 00:54:38,600
Speaker 2: at the time of recording, it hasn't actually officially launched yet,

1036
00:54:38,640 --> 00:54:41,680
Speaker 2: which is so so exciting to get you at the

1037
00:54:41,680 --> 00:54:44,200
Speaker 2: time where you can give a little like reflection on

1038
00:54:44,239 --> 00:54:47,000
Speaker 2: the vulnerability hangover, like how are you feeling about it?

1039
00:54:47,040 --> 00:54:49,680
Speaker 2: But yeah, do you for anyone who's listening, and we

1040
00:54:49,760 --> 00:54:52,359
Speaker 2: will share links to where you can pre purchase it

1041
00:54:52,440 --> 00:54:55,319
Speaker 2: and purchase it. What are some of the you know,

1042
00:54:55,520 --> 00:54:58,960
Speaker 2: maybe the three biggest kind of aha moments for you

1043
00:54:59,000 --> 00:55:01,080
Speaker 2: in writing it that you think be helpful with other people?

1044
00:55:01,239 --> 00:55:06,240
Speaker 1: Yeah? Well, I love that question because what I realized

1045
00:55:06,239 --> 00:55:09,320
Speaker 1: in the process and the ultimate goal of anyone reading

1046
00:55:09,320 --> 00:55:14,680
Speaker 1: the book, is that my answer to that question should

1047
00:55:14,760 --> 00:55:18,600
Speaker 1: change as as time goes, as my life evolves, Like

1048
00:55:18,640 --> 00:55:22,480
Speaker 1: the question that resonates with me the most now should

1049
00:55:22,600 --> 00:55:26,480
Speaker 1: change because you know, circumstances change and other prompts will

1050
00:55:26,480 --> 00:55:29,240
Speaker 1: then resonate. So that's why there's so many different profiles

1051
00:55:29,239 --> 00:55:32,040
Speaker 1: and different prompts, so that no matter where you're at

1052
00:55:32,040 --> 00:55:35,160
Speaker 1: in life, something in there should at least peauk your

1053
00:55:35,160 --> 00:55:38,560
Speaker 1: curiosity and it's probably where you should start and the

1054
00:55:38,560 --> 00:55:41,800
Speaker 1: one that you know actually continue on the theme of

1055
00:55:42,080 --> 00:55:44,520
Speaker 1: what you were reflecting on. But like, am I asking

1056
00:55:44,560 --> 00:55:47,440
Speaker 1: the right questions? The one that sparks for me is

1057
00:55:47,560 --> 00:55:52,160
Speaker 1: James Clear's profile and really getting clear on the person

1058
00:55:52,320 --> 00:55:56,160
Speaker 1: you are trying to become or want to become right,

1059
00:55:56,200 --> 00:55:58,880
Speaker 1: And his opening prompt is something around who am I

1060
00:55:58,920 --> 00:56:02,920
Speaker 1: optimizing to become, which essentially, in other words, you know,

1061
00:56:03,280 --> 00:56:07,359
Speaker 1: translates to are you climbing the right mountain? So, you know,

1062
00:56:07,440 --> 00:56:09,560
Speaker 1: those are those are the type of questions that I've

1063
00:56:09,600 --> 00:56:12,919
Speaker 1: been thinking about as I'm you know, expanding out into

1064
00:56:13,040 --> 00:56:15,960
Speaker 1: this this mental fitness world. I'm still in the right path.

1065
00:56:16,600 --> 00:56:20,680
Speaker 1: I do believe that, but there's also all these different

1066
00:56:20,760 --> 00:56:24,760
Speaker 1: kind of you know, secondary offshoots off the core path,

1067
00:56:24,840 --> 00:56:27,279
Speaker 1: and I need to be so clear on is that

1068
00:56:27,360 --> 00:56:30,360
Speaker 1: a distraction or is that actually something that's helping me

1069
00:56:30,800 --> 00:56:33,920
Speaker 1: further down the path. So constantly checking in with a

1070
00:56:34,000 --> 00:56:38,040
Speaker 1: question like that helps quite a bit. And then there

1071
00:56:38,040 --> 00:56:41,120
Speaker 1: are other ones, like in the third part of the

1072
00:56:41,120 --> 00:56:46,359
Speaker 1: book that are around just possibility. Because often we talk

1073
00:56:46,440 --> 00:56:50,799
Speaker 1: about mental fitness, and rightfully so from the perspective of

1074
00:56:51,360 --> 00:56:55,840
Speaker 1: handling tough situations right and processing tough motions and releasing

1075
00:56:55,880 --> 00:56:58,840
Speaker 1: and rechanneling and things like that, But there's this whole

1076
00:56:59,000 --> 00:57:02,760
Speaker 1: other world, these practices that are around priming your mind

1077
00:57:03,360 --> 00:57:07,000
Speaker 1: to be more creative and to think and to use

1078
00:57:07,040 --> 00:57:11,080
Speaker 1: your imagination and to really like set you know, release

1079
00:57:11,160 --> 00:57:13,560
Speaker 1: any type of limiting beliefs. For example, So I'm thinking

1080
00:57:13,640 --> 00:57:17,720
Speaker 1: of a profile like like Navin Jane and using language

1081
00:57:17,760 --> 00:57:22,120
Speaker 1: around imagine if, right, imagine if and just going down

1082
00:57:22,480 --> 00:57:25,080
Speaker 1: whatever you're working on or whatever you want in your life,

1083
00:57:25,120 --> 00:57:29,320
Speaker 1: imagine if this happened and that happen, and forgetting all

1084
00:57:29,400 --> 00:57:33,040
Speaker 1: the rules. It brings us right back to when we're kids, right,

1085
00:57:33,160 --> 00:57:36,520
Speaker 1: and you just ask questions and you're not thinking about

1086
00:57:37,120 --> 00:57:40,160
Speaker 1: you know, the results of those actions. You're just you're

1087
00:57:40,320 --> 00:57:43,920
Speaker 1: letting your imagination run free. And as adults, you know,

1088
00:57:44,440 --> 00:57:47,800
Speaker 1: when we do that, it trains our minds to also

1089
00:57:48,760 --> 00:57:52,760
Speaker 1: activate that creativity, right and really just break down and

1090
00:57:52,800 --> 00:57:55,240
Speaker 1: allow for creative thinking and whatnot. So I've been doing

1091
00:57:55,240 --> 00:57:57,680
Speaker 1: a lot of that as well, and it's just such

1092
00:57:57,680 --> 00:58:00,920
Speaker 1: a fun practice, especially before you go to bed, because

1093
00:58:00,920 --> 00:58:03,320
Speaker 1: if you do that and your journal and let your

1094
00:58:03,320 --> 00:58:05,760
Speaker 1: mind run free, often to what happens is when you're

1095
00:58:05,760 --> 00:58:09,320
Speaker 1: going to sleep, your mind's in that primed, excited state

1096
00:58:09,400 --> 00:58:12,520
Speaker 1: and you go to sleep, you know, thinking or almost

1097
00:58:12,600 --> 00:58:15,520
Speaker 1: visualizing your goals in a way, right, and then you

1098
00:58:15,560 --> 00:58:17,760
Speaker 1: fall asleep and your mind still working on that and

1099
00:58:17,800 --> 00:58:21,720
Speaker 1: playing out that scene to your movie essentially, and you know,

1100
00:58:21,760 --> 00:58:24,720
Speaker 1: you're just getting closer and closer to you know, whatever

1101
00:58:24,760 --> 00:58:26,680
Speaker 1: you want. And it's different for all of us obviously,

1102
00:58:26,880 --> 00:58:31,320
Speaker 1: but there's almost no downside to doing something like that, right,

1103
00:58:31,760 --> 00:58:34,360
Speaker 1: So those are a couple that that spark. And then

1104
00:58:34,440 --> 00:58:36,760
Speaker 1: the profile is where I obviously didn't have the opportunity

1105
00:58:36,800 --> 00:58:39,880
Speaker 1: to interview you know, the subjects because they've they've passed

1106
00:58:39,960 --> 00:58:44,200
Speaker 1: or they've Picasso for example, Like that one was really

1107
00:58:44,240 --> 00:58:49,760
Speaker 1: fun because I was going through those practices almost live

1108
00:58:49,920 --> 00:58:52,600
Speaker 1: on the spot while writing it. Like I didn't go

1109
00:58:53,240 --> 00:58:56,280
Speaker 1: I didn't have this whole color practice laid out. And

1110
00:58:56,320 --> 00:58:58,800
Speaker 1: I'll explain with that is in a minute before writing

1111
00:58:58,840 --> 00:59:02,320
Speaker 1: his profile, it was due doing the research and seeing, wow,

1112
00:59:02,920 --> 00:59:07,080
Speaker 1: I've experienced Picasso's work, but I didn't realize that he

1113
00:59:07,200 --> 00:59:09,640
Speaker 1: had this blue phase to his work where all of

1114
00:59:09,680 --> 00:59:12,520
Speaker 1: his you know, his paintings and whatnot were essentially in

1115
00:59:12,520 --> 00:59:15,280
Speaker 1: that hue, which also linked up to a time in

1116
00:59:15,320 --> 00:59:19,120
Speaker 1: his life that he was depressed, his best friend had

1117
00:59:19,120 --> 00:59:22,280
Speaker 1: committed suicide, and then all of a sudden, his his

1118
00:59:22,400 --> 00:59:25,880
Speaker 1: work shifted into this rose colored era, which is when

1119
00:59:25,880 --> 00:59:29,720
Speaker 1: he met his wife and you know, like things changed.

1120
00:59:29,880 --> 00:59:32,880
Speaker 1: For example, so the reflection as I was going through

1121
00:59:32,920 --> 00:59:35,680
Speaker 1: that was wow. You know, here's someone that you know,

1122
00:59:35,960 --> 00:59:41,160
Speaker 1: everyone knows about the work and the idea that he's

1123
00:59:41,440 --> 00:59:44,640
Speaker 1: so well known for paintings in all different types of

1124
00:59:44,680 --> 00:59:47,920
Speaker 1: those phases. It wasn't just you know, the famous guitarist

1125
00:59:48,440 --> 00:59:50,680
Speaker 1: painting in the blue phase. There are all these other

1126
00:59:50,720 --> 00:59:54,320
Speaker 1: different pieces of work that everyone knows about, which means

1127
00:59:54,360 --> 00:59:57,320
Speaker 1: that you know, his his body of work is what's important.

1128
00:59:57,320 --> 01:00:00,080
Speaker 1: It's not just the one phase. So that's where the

1129
01:00:00,120 --> 01:00:02,880
Speaker 1: reflection was. Well, so our lives are the same way,

1130
01:00:03,080 --> 01:00:06,000
Speaker 1: you know, like if I thought back to those early

1131
01:00:06,080 --> 01:00:08,680
Speaker 1: days and sales, like what color would I associate my

1132
01:00:08,760 --> 01:00:11,160
Speaker 1: life with around that time? And I would say, you know,

1133
01:00:11,240 --> 01:00:13,920
Speaker 1: I was probably in like the reds because I was go,

1134
01:00:13,920 --> 01:00:17,080
Speaker 1: go go, and like aggressive and want to really you know,

1135
01:00:17,320 --> 01:00:20,600
Speaker 1: like you know, prove that I could do this for example,

1136
01:00:20,920 --> 01:00:23,760
Speaker 1: And you know, I just remember I actually went to

1137
01:00:23,880 --> 01:00:26,640
Speaker 1: Picasso Museum while on a on a trip in that

1138
01:00:26,760 --> 01:00:29,920
Speaker 1: industry in Barcelona, and the objective was just to get

1139
01:00:30,040 --> 01:00:34,960
Speaker 1: essentially get through the entire museum and see everything versus

1140
01:00:35,040 --> 01:00:37,000
Speaker 1: you know, two years from now, when I was writing

1141
01:00:37,120 --> 01:00:39,520
Speaker 1: essentially the first draft, I was able to do a

1142
01:00:39,600 --> 01:00:42,680
Speaker 1: virtual tour of that museum, and it was you know,

1143
01:00:42,800 --> 01:00:45,480
Speaker 1: let's take in one or two of his paintings and

1144
01:00:45,600 --> 01:00:49,000
Speaker 1: really be present with them and just noticing like the

1145
01:00:49,080 --> 01:00:51,680
Speaker 1: evolution of and there's no right or wrong answers, but

1146
01:00:51,800 --> 01:00:55,560
Speaker 1: just noticing where you've come from and where you're heading.

1147
01:00:56,040 --> 01:00:58,840
Speaker 1: And that gives you the pause and the opportunity to

1148
01:00:58,880 --> 01:01:01,440
Speaker 1: course correct if you want it, or write the new

1149
01:01:01,520 --> 01:01:05,000
Speaker 1: chapter which is, you know, something related to Jane Austen's profile.

1150
01:01:05,480 --> 01:01:08,040
Speaker 1: But it just gives us that opportunity to slow down,

1151
01:01:08,120 --> 01:01:12,200
Speaker 1: come off the autopilot, provide a different perspective from something

1152
01:01:12,240 --> 01:01:15,640
Speaker 1: completely different that we would we wouldn't normally be reading

1153
01:01:15,720 --> 01:01:19,240
Speaker 1: or reflecting on, and give us the opportunity to pick

1154
01:01:19,280 --> 01:01:21,280
Speaker 1: a different path. I said a lot there.

1155
01:01:21,440 --> 01:01:22,960
Speaker 3: I love the word course correct.

1156
01:01:23,160 --> 01:01:26,720
Speaker 2: No, it's so valuable, and I think course correction is

1157
01:01:26,800 --> 01:01:29,680
Speaker 2: such a concept that I think we should normalize a

1158
01:01:29,680 --> 01:01:33,240
Speaker 2: lot more because I think people, you know, feel like

1159
01:01:33,280 --> 01:01:35,320
Speaker 2: if they've invested a lot, like with Kio, if you've

1160
01:01:35,440 --> 01:01:37,560
Speaker 2: invested a lot of time and energy and money and

1161
01:01:37,600 --> 01:01:40,280
Speaker 2: reputation into something, you kind of feel wetted to it, like, oh, well,

1162
01:01:40,280 --> 01:01:41,640
Speaker 2: I've got to make I've got to see the story

1163
01:01:41,680 --> 01:01:45,440
Speaker 2: to the end, But why, like, why can't you just

1164
01:01:45,600 --> 01:01:48,680
Speaker 2: redirect at any time? And I think the best thing

1165
01:01:48,720 --> 01:01:50,600
Speaker 2: about the pandemic, and we would never wish it to

1166
01:01:50,640 --> 01:01:52,840
Speaker 2: have hap it that way, is that the breaking the

1167
01:01:53,000 --> 01:01:55,360
Speaker 2: circuit and getting off autopilot is automatic.

1168
01:01:55,560 --> 01:01:56,400
Speaker 3: It was forced.

1169
01:01:56,960 --> 01:01:59,040
Speaker 1: As for its reflection, yeah, I agree.

1170
01:01:59,360 --> 01:02:02,120
Speaker 2: Normally you have to volunteer yourself for that, which a

1171
01:02:02,120 --> 01:02:04,000
Speaker 2: lot of people aren't ready for or don't have time for.

1172
01:02:04,160 --> 01:02:06,000
Speaker 2: But this way we've kind of all been forced to

1173
01:02:06,040 --> 01:02:09,640
Speaker 2: do it. So personal Socrates is like the best guide

1174
01:02:09,680 --> 01:02:12,560
Speaker 2: to have in your pocket as you navigate this exciting

1175
01:02:12,600 --> 01:02:15,040
Speaker 2: time to know that the world has thrown all the

1176
01:02:15,080 --> 01:02:16,960
Speaker 2: pieces kind of out the window, but you get to

1177
01:02:17,040 --> 01:02:18,200
Speaker 2: choose the ones that you put back in.

1178
01:02:18,240 --> 01:02:19,120
Speaker 3: It's so exciting.

1179
01:02:19,640 --> 01:02:22,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree, And I promise I didn't create this

1180
01:02:22,240 --> 01:02:26,440
Speaker 1: pandemic for the launch of the book, and you're right,

1181
01:02:26,520 --> 01:02:30,120
Speaker 1: it's kind of well timed, and I do. I am

1182
01:02:30,200 --> 01:02:34,880
Speaker 1: hopeful because I'm hopeful that you know, people that would

1183
01:02:34,920 --> 01:02:39,200
Speaker 1: never have thought about these type of practices and because

1184
01:02:39,400 --> 01:02:43,040
Speaker 1: of this forced kind of reflection. I just hope that

1185
01:02:43,080 --> 01:02:46,800
Speaker 1: people continue down that path and see that Okay, yeah,

1186
01:02:46,840 --> 01:02:49,680
Speaker 1: because people have been answering some pretty big questions that

1187
01:02:49,720 --> 01:02:52,280
Speaker 1: they most likely never thought about, right, and like who

1188
01:02:52,320 --> 01:02:53,960
Speaker 1: am I? Or what do I want to? Again? Am

1189
01:02:53,960 --> 01:02:56,840
Speaker 1: I climbing the right mountain? Because they you know, they

1190
01:02:56,880 --> 01:03:01,280
Speaker 1: were forced into a pause, and some still like that's

1191
01:03:01,280 --> 01:03:03,520
Speaker 1: what it is, right. It's just like when you have

1192
01:03:03,880 --> 01:03:06,160
Speaker 1: ideas that come up in the shower or on a run.

1193
01:03:06,240 --> 01:03:08,960
Speaker 1: I mean, we're we're stilling our mind. So just the

1194
01:03:09,000 --> 01:03:11,480
Speaker 1: whole world has gone through that in some capacity. But

1195
01:03:11,960 --> 01:03:15,880
Speaker 1: we don't need to wait for another pandemic or situation

1196
01:03:16,120 --> 01:03:20,919
Speaker 1: like that to inject those moments of stillness. And now

1197
01:03:20,960 --> 01:03:24,520
Speaker 1: that people know that what's possible after you know, going

1198
01:03:24,520 --> 01:03:27,920
Speaker 1: through these practices in a moment like that, I just

1199
01:03:27,960 --> 01:03:29,840
Speaker 1: hope that you know, we stick with them.

1200
01:03:30,280 --> 01:03:33,520
Speaker 2: Well, I'm so excited for the book to officially launch

1201
01:03:33,520 --> 01:03:35,560
Speaker 2: out into the world. I think it is such a

1202
01:03:35,720 --> 01:03:39,400
Speaker 2: valuable handbook just to have to guide you through like

1203
01:03:39,440 --> 01:03:41,520
Speaker 2: this whole rebuilding and course correcting for.

1204
01:03:41,520 --> 01:03:44,040
Speaker 3: All of us. How you feeling?

1205
01:03:44,240 --> 01:03:47,200
Speaker 2: What do you do you have any expectations? Are you like,

1206
01:03:47,320 --> 01:03:49,040
Speaker 2: what do you hope it to do? Do you have

1207
01:03:49,080 --> 01:03:52,160
Speaker 2: any metrics of success? Or are you just putting it

1208
01:03:52,200 --> 01:03:54,560
Speaker 2: out there and wishing it the best? You know, like,

1209
01:03:54,600 --> 01:03:55,520
Speaker 2: how do you feel about it?

1210
01:03:56,160 --> 01:04:00,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean there's I mean, there's definitely metrics there.

1211
01:04:00,280 --> 01:04:04,480
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm setting objectives and I say this kind

1212
01:04:04,480 --> 01:04:08,560
Speaker 1: of tongue in cheek because there is a massive difference

1213
01:04:08,920 --> 01:04:13,280
Speaker 1: in the mentality with this project and the app, whereas

1214
01:04:13,320 --> 01:04:16,200
Speaker 1: the app was very much how many users can we

1215
01:04:16,240 --> 01:04:18,280
Speaker 1: get in, how do we retain them, how do we

1216
01:04:18,320 --> 01:04:21,160
Speaker 1: convert them? And all of that, and this is I mean,

1217
01:04:21,200 --> 01:04:23,360
Speaker 1: don't get me wrong. Obviously, I'd love for as many

1218
01:04:23,360 --> 01:04:26,200
Speaker 1: people to pick it up, because I really do believe

1219
01:04:26,200 --> 01:04:29,480
Speaker 1: in the work, and I've seen questions save lives and

1220
01:04:29,560 --> 01:04:33,040
Speaker 1: upgrade lives, so I mean that's the ultimate goal. But

1221
01:04:33,120 --> 01:04:36,760
Speaker 1: my personal goal is to go into this whole launch

1222
01:04:37,400 --> 01:04:41,120
Speaker 1: as clear as possible, because I'm already starting to see

1223
01:04:41,680 --> 01:04:45,560
Speaker 1: little opportunities here and there and kind of going full

1224
01:04:45,560 --> 01:04:48,720
Speaker 1: circle to what I had mentioned earlier. But I want

1225
01:04:48,760 --> 01:04:51,640
Speaker 1: to make sure that the right ones are the ones

1226
01:04:51,680 --> 01:04:54,280
Speaker 1: that I grab onto and that they can help fuel

1227
01:04:54,360 --> 01:04:56,600
Speaker 1: kind of my overall mission. And I can only do

1228
01:04:56,720 --> 01:05:01,440
Speaker 1: that if I'm not fogged by a million different you know,

1229
01:05:01,560 --> 01:05:06,040
Speaker 1: launch activities and you know, get stuck in checking Amazon,

1230
01:05:06,320 --> 01:05:09,840
Speaker 1: you know, listings and rankings and things like that, Like,

1231
01:05:09,880 --> 01:05:14,360
Speaker 1: that's interesting, it's exciting obviously, I mean, as we speak

1232
01:05:14,440 --> 01:05:16,560
Speaker 1: right now, the book is in a couple of the

1233
01:05:16,600 --> 01:05:18,880
Speaker 1: top one hundred lists, but I know from the Kyo

1234
01:05:19,000 --> 01:05:21,560
Speaker 1: days it doesn't matter. That's I don't want to fall

1235
01:05:21,680 --> 01:05:24,320
Speaker 1: through the hype. Now, I'll take that and we can

1236
01:05:24,400 --> 01:05:27,720
Speaker 1: leverage that, but that the core thing is doing things

1237
01:05:27,760 --> 01:05:30,400
Speaker 1: like this and like really connecting and hopefully that there's

1238
01:05:31,240 --> 01:05:34,640
Speaker 1: one question, one story, or one practice for someone on

1239
01:05:34,680 --> 01:05:38,280
Speaker 1: the other side listening to this that can completely change

1240
01:05:38,320 --> 01:05:40,040
Speaker 1: their life, Like that's the ultimate goal.

1241
01:05:40,440 --> 01:05:42,439
Speaker 2: Well, I feel like you've probably already done that without

1242
01:05:42,480 --> 01:05:45,040
Speaker 2: I've been realizing. But many, many more people will be

1243
01:05:45,080 --> 01:05:47,240
Speaker 2: able to benefit from this book. I'm so so thrilled.

1244
01:05:47,320 --> 01:05:49,800
Speaker 2: And all the links for everyone listening will be in

1245
01:05:49,840 --> 01:05:54,520
Speaker 2: the show notes. Last couple of questions, and it's extremely difficult.

1246
01:05:54,800 --> 01:05:57,560
Speaker 2: This section is your playta, which is where we obviously

1247
01:05:57,600 --> 01:05:59,120
Speaker 2: have run us very short of time for it. But

1248
01:05:59,240 --> 01:06:03,880
Speaker 2: just one quick question about separating your work identity from

1249
01:06:03,960 --> 01:06:06,360
Speaker 2: the things that bring you joy outside of work. Just

1250
01:06:06,400 --> 01:06:10,520
Speaker 2: getting that complete distance that you need to keep creative

1251
01:06:10,640 --> 01:06:14,440
Speaker 2: energy and get fresh ideas. I think it's so difficult

1252
01:06:14,440 --> 01:06:17,440
Speaker 2: when your job is something that is related to everyday

1253
01:06:17,480 --> 01:06:20,320
Speaker 2: life because there's no clear barrier between like being a

1254
01:06:20,360 --> 01:06:22,200
Speaker 2: doctor and then going home and not being a doctor.

1255
01:06:22,240 --> 01:06:24,360
Speaker 2: You know, it's like mental fitness applies to everything, so

1256
01:06:24,440 --> 01:06:27,560
Speaker 2: the ideas and stimulation anywhere that you are. It's hard

1257
01:06:27,560 --> 01:06:29,480
Speaker 2: to kind of quarantine yourself. It's such a bad choice

1258
01:06:29,520 --> 01:06:32,600
Speaker 2: of word this year, but quarantining your life into little sections.

1259
01:06:34,160 --> 01:06:35,160
Speaker 1: But what do you do?

1260
01:06:36,920 --> 01:06:38,760
Speaker 2: I kind of think of it as like it's play

1261
01:06:38,800 --> 01:06:40,959
Speaker 2: because you know, it's a bit of a juvenile word,

1262
01:06:41,000 --> 01:06:43,040
Speaker 2: but it's what lets you're in a child back out?

1263
01:06:43,080 --> 01:06:44,920
Speaker 2: What are the things you do? And I know you

1264
01:06:44,960 --> 01:06:47,560
Speaker 2: have a one year old Caleb, So is it just

1265
01:06:47,640 --> 01:06:50,360
Speaker 2: playing with him or you know, emulating his ways of

1266
01:06:50,440 --> 01:06:53,800
Speaker 2: playing that aren't attached to success or winning or improving

1267
01:06:53,880 --> 01:06:54,440
Speaker 2: or learning?

1268
01:06:54,600 --> 01:06:55,520
Speaker 3: What do you do for fun?

1269
01:06:55,800 --> 01:06:59,120
Speaker 1: Totally well, because you're too humble to ever bring this up,

1270
01:06:59,120 --> 01:07:01,240
Speaker 1: but I'm going to plug some practices out of your

1271
01:07:01,280 --> 01:07:05,920
Speaker 1: profile because I'm using I'm no, I'm using. I'm using

1272
01:07:05,920 --> 01:07:08,840
Speaker 1: one of your concepts around just work hygiene, which you

1273
01:07:08,880 --> 01:07:13,680
Speaker 1: know translates into just personal hygiene, and uh, I should

1274
01:07:13,680 --> 01:07:17,000
Speaker 1: call it wellness hygiene for example, that that helps me

1275
01:07:17,080 --> 01:07:20,000
Speaker 1: through all this and is just identifying the things in

1276
01:07:20,040 --> 01:07:21,640
Speaker 1: my life that I know will put a smile on

1277
01:07:21,640 --> 01:07:26,280
Speaker 1: my face and making sure that those activities, those conversations

1278
01:07:26,400 --> 01:07:30,000
Speaker 1: are injected into the week so it's not just a

1279
01:07:30,040 --> 01:07:33,000
Speaker 1: weekend thing, or it's not just you know, a vacation

1280
01:07:33,120 --> 01:07:35,880
Speaker 1: at the end of the month type thing. So perfect example.

1281
01:07:35,960 --> 01:07:39,120
Speaker 1: So my little guy Caleb, now he's he's actually five now,

1282
01:07:39,560 --> 01:07:44,160
Speaker 1: so it's great. Yeah, so year old, Oh my god.

1283
01:07:44,480 --> 01:07:47,000
Speaker 1: In the intro, he was one one and a half

1284
01:07:47,040 --> 01:07:50,000
Speaker 1: when all of the essentially the app stuff had started,

1285
01:07:50,040 --> 01:07:52,640
Speaker 1: so you're you're not mistaken on that. So he's been

1286
01:07:52,680 --> 01:07:56,200
Speaker 1: through this journey as well. So I mean a perfect

1287
01:07:56,200 --> 01:08:00,160
Speaker 1: example is, like we're recording this. We started essentially at

1288
01:08:00,200 --> 01:08:02,720
Speaker 1: six pm my time, so kind of it's been a

1289
01:08:02,720 --> 01:08:05,840
Speaker 1: full day first and just to you know, be able

1290
01:08:05,840 --> 01:08:07,480
Speaker 1: to show up with energy and make sure that I'm

1291
01:08:07,480 --> 01:08:10,880
Speaker 1: present for you, I took thirty minutes before and we

1292
01:08:10,960 --> 01:08:15,520
Speaker 1: played Lego down downstairs. You know, we just built together

1293
01:08:15,600 --> 01:08:17,840
Speaker 1: and had fun and stuff like that, which just gave

1294
01:08:17,880 --> 01:08:22,559
Speaker 1: me a whole new you know, zest and round of

1295
01:08:22,720 --> 01:08:25,800
Speaker 1: energy to come and have this discussion. So like just

1296
01:08:25,880 --> 01:08:28,960
Speaker 1: doing things like that, and it's different for everyone, So

1297
01:08:29,080 --> 01:08:31,240
Speaker 1: just figuring out what works. Maybe it's taking a walk

1298
01:08:31,320 --> 01:08:33,439
Speaker 1: or playing with your dog or whatever it is, but

1299
01:08:34,080 --> 01:08:38,040
Speaker 1: injecting those moments in your in your those micro moments

1300
01:08:38,240 --> 01:08:42,360
Speaker 1: I should say, of play and excitement. It goes so far,

1301
01:08:42,840 --> 01:08:45,840
Speaker 1: so far, This stuff doesn't have to be complicated, Sarah, Like,

1302
01:08:45,840 --> 01:08:48,920
Speaker 1: we don't need to wait for a seven day silent

1303
01:08:48,960 --> 01:08:53,240
Speaker 1: retreat to like completely reset. You know, those are great.

1304
01:08:53,360 --> 01:08:56,280
Speaker 1: We could do those things for sure, and I encourage them,

1305
01:08:56,320 --> 01:08:59,920
Speaker 1: But there's also the daily you know, the daily practices

1306
01:09:00,240 --> 01:09:02,840
Speaker 1: and whatnot to really help.

1307
01:09:03,200 --> 01:09:05,679
Speaker 2: I also think it's so important that like what makes

1308
01:09:05,720 --> 01:09:09,559
Speaker 2: you smile and happy can be weird, like I'm so

1309
01:09:09,760 --> 01:09:13,519
Speaker 2: yay focused and it's serial killer movies, Like why don't

1310
01:09:14,040 --> 01:09:15,240
Speaker 2: don't question it?

1311
01:09:15,600 --> 01:09:16,400
Speaker 3: Do you know what I mean?

1312
01:09:16,479 --> 01:09:16,679
Speaker 1: Though?

1313
01:09:16,840 --> 01:09:20,080
Speaker 2: Like I used to literally suppress them and stop myself

1314
01:09:20,120 --> 01:09:22,360
Speaker 2: reading true crime books because I was like, this is

1315
01:09:22,400 --> 01:09:24,519
Speaker 2: not good for it, Like I worried that I was

1316
01:09:25,280 --> 01:09:29,320
Speaker 2: like pouring negativity into my mental health cup. But then

1317
01:09:29,360 --> 01:09:33,120
Speaker 2: by not doing an activity that I had already identified

1318
01:09:33,360 --> 01:09:37,040
Speaker 2: really helps me with the separation between work and switching off.

1319
01:09:37,880 --> 01:09:40,719
Speaker 2: I was depriving myself, Like don't double think it, don't

1320
01:09:40,800 --> 01:09:43,719
Speaker 2: like question it too much. If you if you find

1321
01:09:43,720 --> 01:09:45,160
Speaker 2: something you like doing, just do it.

1322
01:09:45,520 --> 01:09:48,160
Speaker 1: Just do it totally, totally.

1323
01:09:49,640 --> 01:09:52,160
Speaker 2: And very last question, what's your favorite quote?

1324
01:09:52,560 --> 01:09:55,920
Speaker 1: Oh, what's my favorite quote? I should have known this

1325
01:09:55,960 --> 01:10:00,519
Speaker 1: because you are the quote queen. I do know, i'd say.

1326
01:10:00,600 --> 01:10:03,400
Speaker 1: I mean this is actually a final thought in the book,

1327
01:10:03,439 --> 01:10:06,080
Speaker 1: but it just sticks with me. It comes up every day.

1328
01:10:06,120 --> 01:10:09,479
Speaker 1: Almost the most curious person in the room is also

1329
01:10:09,520 --> 01:10:14,200
Speaker 1: the most present. Ah, yes, and that you know, that's

1330
01:10:14,200 --> 01:10:17,040
Speaker 1: in Chip Conley's profile. But it's something that for me

1331
01:10:18,600 --> 01:10:21,719
Speaker 1: it just doesn't disappoint because you really can't go wrong

1332
01:10:21,800 --> 01:10:25,960
Speaker 1: with being present. And when you're present and curious, I

1333
01:10:25,960 --> 01:10:29,280
Speaker 1: mean everyone feels that you know and you you feel it,

1334
01:10:29,680 --> 01:10:33,960
Speaker 1: you learn, you know, you expand what's possible. It fires

1335
01:10:34,040 --> 01:10:37,000
Speaker 1: up your imagination and the people on the other side

1336
01:10:37,040 --> 01:10:40,600
Speaker 1: can can also feel that. So yeah, that's something that

1337
01:10:41,160 --> 01:10:42,519
Speaker 1: comes up all the time for me.

1338
01:10:42,680 --> 01:10:43,720
Speaker 3: Oh that's beautiful.

1339
01:10:43,800 --> 01:10:46,240
Speaker 2: And also given that your book is, you know, based

1340
01:10:46,280 --> 01:10:49,280
Speaker 2: on lots of different questions and always asking you and

1341
01:10:49,320 --> 01:10:51,640
Speaker 2: better questions, I think that curiosity quote is such a

1342
01:10:51,640 --> 01:10:54,360
Speaker 2: good one to finish on. Thank you so much for joining,

1343
01:10:54,960 --> 01:10:58,360
Speaker 2: huge congratulations on the book. Thank you for everything that

1344
01:10:58,400 --> 01:11:01,080
Speaker 2: you've done to literally make this show a thing when

1345
01:11:01,080 --> 01:11:04,000
Speaker 2: it otherwise wouldn't have been. And it's just been so

1346
01:11:04,160 --> 01:11:05,080
Speaker 2: nice to reconnect.

1347
01:11:05,680 --> 01:11:08,639
Speaker 1: Oh my heart is full, so thank you for making

1348
01:11:08,680 --> 01:11:09,160
Speaker 1: the time.

1349
01:11:09,560 --> 01:11:10,719
Speaker 3: It's been such a pleasure.

1350
01:11:11,280 --> 01:11:14,200
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, what a lovely human being. Mark is

1351
01:11:14,200 --> 01:11:16,080
Speaker 2: one of those people I haven't even met in person,

1352
01:11:16,120 --> 01:11:18,160
Speaker 2: but would pretty much cross the world to support.

1353
01:11:18,240 --> 01:11:19,960
Speaker 3: I hope you guys enjoyed.

1354
01:11:19,960 --> 01:11:22,040
Speaker 2: And if you did, or you took away something from

1355
01:11:22,040 --> 01:11:24,920
Speaker 2: his endless wisdom, please show him some love sharing the

1356
01:11:24,960 --> 01:11:28,800
Speaker 2: episode and tagging at m Champagne to help keep us

1357
01:11:28,840 --> 01:11:32,040
Speaker 2: growing the neighborhood far and wide. As I mentioned, there

1358
01:11:32,080 --> 01:11:34,200
Speaker 2: are links to purchase his book or to listen to

1359
01:11:34,240 --> 01:11:37,080
Speaker 2: his podcast in the show notes. I can't recommend both

1360
01:11:37,280 --> 01:11:41,080
Speaker 2: more highly. And don't forget our third birthday or third

1361
01:11:41,080 --> 01:11:43,920
Speaker 2: anniversary episode is coming up, and I'd love to make

1362
01:11:43,960 --> 01:11:47,120
Speaker 2: sure I'm actually answering questions you have about the podcast,

1363
01:11:47,160 --> 01:11:51,000
Speaker 2: career changes, marriage, adoption, or anything in between. So just

1364
01:11:51,080 --> 01:11:54,280
Speaker 2: DM or email me your questions over the next week

1365
01:11:54,360 --> 01:11:56,680
Speaker 2: and I will get ange to ask me them in

1366
01:11:56,840 --> 01:11:59,400
Speaker 2: the episode which is coming your way. I hope you're

1367
01:11:59,439 --> 01:12:06,040
Speaker 2: all pleasing your ya