Speaker 1: You're listening to Amma Mea podcast.
Speaker 2: Mamma Mea acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on Hello, and welcome to
Speaker 2: Mama Mia out Loud. And to Friday, which is the
Speaker 2: show when we take a break from the news cycle
Speaker 2: an next day.
Speaker 1: Their little asmr oh stop.
Speaker 3: Actually I'm about to sneeze, and that's not gonna be
Speaker 3: for anyone.
Speaker 2: Today It's Friday, the thirtieth of August, and my name
Speaker 2: is Holly Wainwright, I'm Me Friedman, and I'm Jesse Stevens.
Speaker 2: And on the show today is savor the season you're in,
Speaker 2: the most infuriating advice you could give a person, and
Speaker 2: the book you should read this very weekend, a much
Speaker 2: talked about movie, and Jesse and I are piggybacking together
Speaker 2: on a recommendation of the one book you have to
Speaker 2: read this weekend. And me has seen a very talked
Speaker 2: about movie. That's our recommendations. Also sitting in the dark
Speaker 2: with strangers, the unstopped force of midlife female fury, and
Speaker 2: a fancy kitchen gadget.
Speaker 4: That's our best and worst.
Speaker 1: But first, in case you missed it, there's a new
Speaker 1: sexuality available. Well, it's not available. People have always had it,
Speaker 1: I assume, but now there's a new word for it,
Speaker 1: and it's called being abrosexual. And this means your sexuality
Speaker 1: changes over time, so you might be attracted to different
Speaker 1: genders at different times of your life or have varying
Speaker 1: levels of sexual attraction to those genders, so you might
Speaker 1: switch between being heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual, and asexual. And I
Speaker 1: guess the umbrella term for someone who dabbles or has
Speaker 1: different eras of their sexuality is being abrosexual. It's like
Speaker 1: a gender fluid equivalent of sexuality. Does that make sense? Ye?
Speaker 3: I have a question, which is, don't you think that
Speaker 3: we are beginning to find that most people are abrosexual,
Speaker 3: that sexuality is something that changes for a lifetime, Like
Speaker 3: we've seen women who get divorced and then the next
Speaker 3: relationship might be with a woman, or there might be
Speaker 3: periods of a decade where someone says I'm totally asexual. Like,
Speaker 3: I guess I appreciate that there's a word for it,
Speaker 3: but then I'm also like, is naming something that's fluid
Speaker 3: the opposite to fluid?
Speaker 5: You know what I mean?
Speaker 6: Oh?
Speaker 5: Yeah, Like if.
Speaker 3: There are paradox in trying to create new labels for
Speaker 3: things that can't be labeled, which is at sexuality.
Speaker 5: There's a fluidity to it.
Speaker 3: That is definitely new, Like I don't think that, well,
Speaker 3: it's probably not new, no, but the idea that we're
Speaker 3: acknowledging it is new.
Speaker 1: What I think is interesting because there'll be people listening
Speaker 1: right now whose eyes have rolled into the back of
Speaker 1: their head, and I hope they're not driving because that's dangerous,
Speaker 1: And then there'll be others that are probably thinking, oh, well,
Speaker 1: that's what I am.
Speaker 5: Why do you think people would roll their eyes at this?
Speaker 1: Oh, people do. I roll my eyes at it sometimes
Speaker 1: because I think if you feel like you have a
Speaker 1: name that makes sense for your sexuality, then you don't
Speaker 1: understand why everybody needs to be a special snowflake and
Speaker 1: have a specific word. And that's not just an attitude
Speaker 1: of older people, although it is more common probably in
Speaker 1: older people. I know young people who also roll their
Speaker 1: eyes very heavily at this idea of everybody gets their
Speaker 1: own type of sexuality, and not just straight young people.
Speaker 1: I know young people who have I wouldn't even call
Speaker 1: it different sexualities. It's just not relevant. To them, it's
Speaker 1: just why put a label on it? But then other
Speaker 1: people find labels really helpful. So it almost comes back
Speaker 1: to Holly's idea, which I disagree with about trigger warnings,
Speaker 1: which is what's the harm? Like, use a label if
Speaker 1: you want to. If you don't feel that it helps, you,
Speaker 1: don't use one, but don't police where the other people
Speaker 1: use the label.
Speaker 5: How how do you identify?
Speaker 1: Probably, well, it's really hard because there's who you actually
Speaker 1: have sex with, which is my husband, who's a man,
Speaker 1: and that's who I've had sex with for you know,
Speaker 1: thirty odd years. And then there's who I might have
Speaker 1: sex with if I wasn't married to him, and I
Speaker 1: don't know. I don't know. Would I have sex with women? Probably?
Speaker 1: Would I also have sex with men? Probably?
Speaker 2: Like what if?
Speaker 1: Is there a word for hypothetical? So I'm a hypothetic?
Speaker 2: Used to be like rip your clothes off, and now
Speaker 2: I'm like, I'd rather eat a box of hair? Is
Speaker 2: there is there a word for that?
Speaker 1: Do I get a label?
Speaker 4: I think label for me?
Speaker 3: I think you should make up your own word. I
Speaker 3: think the word is tired. All week, we've been busting
Speaker 3: to talk about a sub stack published for The Evil
Speaker 3: Witch's newsletter titled no amount of cherishing your kid now
Speaker 3: will let you skip feeling melancholy later. And if you
Speaker 3: don't have kids, this isn't really about kids. It's about
Speaker 3: periods of your life you're told to cherish and savor.
Speaker 3: So I remember hearing it a lot at university or
Speaker 3: my last years of school, and people would say they're
Speaker 3: the best years of your life.
Speaker 1: A lot of pressure when people tell you that, yeah,
Speaker 1: best day of your life, best time of your life.
Speaker 5: And older people do it to younger people.
Speaker 1: My daughter just finished school last year and she's felt
Speaker 1: so much pressure.
Speaker 3: We decided to speak to a few people in the
Speaker 3: Mummeya office about what they've been told to savor and
Speaker 3: how it made them feel.
Speaker 5: Here's what they said.
Speaker 7: It pisces me off, and people say save in the
Speaker 7: moment when your two year old is being a testing,
Speaker 7: little nightmare, and people just say, oh, they're only babies once, Like,
Speaker 7: I get it, but she's pissing me off.
Speaker 6: Everyone used to tell me to savor the moment when
Speaker 6: I was going to university, because once you get into
Speaker 6: the real world and you have to start working full time,
Speaker 6: you know, no one likes that, But I was going
Speaker 6: to university during COVID time, so I was literally sitting
Speaker 6: at home doing assignments in the dark, sad, and that's
Speaker 6: not really a moment I wanted to savor.
Speaker 8: When I moved overseas Australia, everybody was saying, oh God, enjoy,
Speaker 8: you don't want to get to see this one's whereas
Speaker 8: deep down inside I was an anxious mess about me
Speaker 8: have a halfway across the world where absolutely nothing.
Speaker 9: The last time I remember someone telling me to save
Speaker 9: the moment outside of parenthood was a colleague who told
Speaker 9: me exactly that, right before I got made redundant. It
Speaker 9: was a manager work environment was toxic as hell, and
Speaker 9: people had been made redundant and everyone was scared. And
Speaker 9: so he turned to me and said, just save at
Speaker 9: the moment. You've got a great paying job today.
Speaker 5: Thanks mate.
Speaker 3: When we've been talking about this newsletter all wake, our
Speaker 3: head of content, Eliza, had something really interesting to say
Speaker 3: about it. And for context, she has three very little kids.
Speaker 3: She is in the thick of it as much as
Speaker 3: one can be, and.
Speaker 1: She's just moved to Australia from other country.
Speaker 5: Yep. Here are some of her insights.
Speaker 10: I hate when people say, oh, it's just a season
Speaker 10: that you're in. It implies that you don't have any
Speaker 10: agency to change what's going on on. I understand when
Speaker 10: like I walk down the street and my kid does
Speaker 10: something funny and people go, oh, that's like, isn't this
Speaker 10: a great season? Love that sentiment, But I hate that
Speaker 10: sentiment where I'm having a shit time, they're not sleeping
Speaker 10: at night, my bills are stacking up because of childcare,
Speaker 10: and people go, oh, it's a season. That implies that
Speaker 10: I have no agency to create change in my life.
Speaker 10: It stops us talking about systemic issues, for example, in
Speaker 10: this season. Is it just normal that my childcare is
Speaker 10: meant to be more expensive than my mortgage? Is it
Speaker 10: normal that as a working mum, I don't get to
Speaker 10: see my friends and like my husband as much because
Speaker 10: I have to race around and workplace as well. They're
Speaker 10: being flexible, it's still really hard for working moms. Do
Speaker 10: I have to sit in this shit? So?
Speaker 3: What does it mean to save uh? And does it
Speaker 3: actually make us think more positively? The writer Claire Zulki
Speaker 3: says that on social media, when you have a wind
Speaker 3: or you complain, particularly at being in the trenches with parenting.
Speaker 3: The common retort is you'll miss this one day, she writes.
Speaker 3: It can sound like they're saying that cherishing each moment
Speaker 3: of young parenthood fully and with an open heart and
Speaker 3: zero negative feelings will inoculate you later against feelings of
Speaker 3: bittersweetness or just plain grief when your kids are older.
Speaker 3: No amount of keeping your mouth shut when they're at
Speaker 3: a hard phase will make you feel any less sad
Speaker 3: when they leave someday. This was her hunch, and so
Speaker 3: she interviewed a psychology professor named Fred Bryant about this
Speaker 3: idea of savoring, and he said that nostalgia is really
Speaker 3: important and brings a sense of meaning to our lives,
Speaker 3: and savoring is actually all about accepting loss, that all
Speaker 3: good things and all bad things must come.
Speaker 5: To an end.
Speaker 4: That person is very smart.
Speaker 3: Yes, well, they went to university like me. You two
Speaker 3: have kids that are not babies anymore. Do you feel
Speaker 3: a compulsion to yell at me to savor every moment?
Speaker 2: No, but I have a compulsion and to yell at
Speaker 2: all the people winging about being told to savor, because
Speaker 2: come on, is that really what it's like you say?
Speaker 5: Today?
Speaker 2: I had to clean up a lot of vomit and
Speaker 2: rush the kid to blah blah, and some idiot's just
Speaker 2: saying to you save. At this moment, I see a
Speaker 2: lot of parents complaining about things, and no one's saying
Speaker 2: that everybody's in it together, don't Oh aren't they do?
Speaker 2: These people just finding things to moan about about our people.
Speaker 3: Holly, you are on a different algorithm to me. I
Speaker 3: know what they're talking about, which is that there is
Speaker 3: this trending kind of motherhood content. I've actually found, controversially
Speaker 3: some of it really helpful.
Speaker 2: Yes, because you the thing that I found interesting about this.
Speaker 1: What's the trend? I don't understand.
Speaker 2: But when you had your baby, you said to me
Speaker 2: a million times. Everybody has only told me how shit
Speaker 2: it is. There isn't enough stuff out there telling me
Speaker 2: how good it is. And now what I'm hearing from
Speaker 2: everybody is stop telling me how.
Speaker 4: Good it is.
Speaker 2: I want to talk about how shit it is. And
Speaker 2: I'm just like, oh my god, can anyone say anything?
Speaker 3: So a lot of people say and I guess it's wisdom.
Speaker 3: And it's also people communicating about parenting from different stages,
Speaker 3: which I find annoying, which is you think.
Speaker 5: Newborns are hard, wait until they can too.
Speaker 3: And I'm like, Okay, that's actually not really helpful. But
Speaker 3: the savoring thing I always say I read this thing,
Speaker 3: but actually I just saw it on TikTok and it said,
Speaker 3: whenever you feel frustrated, or you feel irritated or whatever,
Speaker 3: all the multitude of emotions you feel with kids, look
Speaker 3: at the size of their hands, and it just helps
Speaker 3: to remind you that they're really.
Speaker 2: Little, and they'll never be this little, and they'll.
Speaker 3: Never be this little again. Which is a cliche and
Speaker 3: might sound frustrating. I actually find some of this savoring
Speaker 3: talk really helpful because it does put into perspective when
Speaker 3: it's a long day or when you've made sacrifices. There's
Speaker 3: something very Sisaphian about it. It feels like you get
Speaker 3: up and you can do the same thing and the
Speaker 3: same thing and the same thing. But when I consider
Speaker 3: that in ten twenty thirty years, I would do anything,
Speaker 3: and I truly believe this, that I would probably do
Speaker 3: anything to go back to this moment now when my
Speaker 3: baby is little, And then it does offer I think,
Speaker 3: an element of mindfulness where I can sit there and go, okay,
Speaker 3: try and love the good bits, and in fact, there
Speaker 3: was you know the assembly that you recommended Holly, just
Speaker 3: I know what you're doing.
Speaker 5: Yeah, there's a Hamish Blake quote which I can't stop
Speaker 5: thinking about.
Speaker 11: We had Richard Branson on the show and one of
Speaker 11: the guys on our radio show, Jack He basically said
Speaker 11: to Richard Bresley is like, you are a billionaire. Can
Speaker 11: we just go downstairs to the ATM just give me
Speaker 11: a thousand dollars? Like just give me, like nothing, it's
Speaker 11: nothing to you, and it's like, this would change my month.
Speaker 11: In the response to that, Richard Branson was like, I'll
Speaker 11: take you this something, I'll give you all my money for.
Speaker 11: And Zack's like really, He's like yeah, your age, And
Speaker 11: so I'm like that's interesting. And I remember hearing that
Speaker 11: and I'm like, Jack's twenty two, and we're like, what
Speaker 11: do you mean by that? He's like, I would happily
Speaker 11: be broke and twenty two than a billionaire in sixty
Speaker 11: eight or whatever it.
Speaker 1: Was at the time.
Speaker 3: At any moment, we would want to go back in
Speaker 3: time because time is the most finite resource. So acknowledging
Speaker 3: that whatever moment you're in is one you're going to
Speaker 3: feel nostalgic for later.
Speaker 5: It's probably a healthy thing to do.
Speaker 1: I just don't think that's true, because I don't think
Speaker 1: you do feel nostalgic for every moment you're in. I
Speaker 1: think we're kind of mixing up two different things. One
Speaker 1: is about the person who says that to you. It's
Speaker 1: not about you, it's about them, and it's about them
Speaker 1: feeling nostalgic. This is one thing I have with gratitude
Speaker 1: that can be challenging, because if we spent our whole
Speaker 1: lives aware that the clock is ticking, that we're going
Speaker 1: to die, that our kids will grow up and leave us,
Speaker 1: that our parents will die, that our friends will die,
Speaker 1: that life is fun, we'd be in a fetal position.
Speaker 1: And in the same way, you can't spend every day going, God,
Speaker 1: I'm lucky to have this partner, this roof over my head,
Speaker 1: these arms and legs that work, these beautiful child one
Speaker 1: day like, we have to just pay our bills and
Speaker 1: go to work and get shit done, and this is why.
Speaker 1: So we can't. There are some things that you can
Speaker 1: only appreciate in hindsight.
Speaker 3: We've talked about seasons on this podcast before, right, which
Speaker 3: is the idea that you're in a season and that
Speaker 3: season will change. So for people who are currently deep
Speaker 3: in grief, or maybe you're in a period where you've
Speaker 3: leaned out of.
Speaker 5: Work and you're not actually loving yourself.
Speaker 1: It tells you to savor that though people tell you
Speaker 1: to savor the things that they miss, and people tell
Speaker 1: you it's just a season to help you cope with
Speaker 1: a really bad touch in your life.
Speaker 3: I'm also conscious and this is what I think. This
Speaker 3: is a reaction to. We can't live life through the
Speaker 3: prism of this too shall pass in every season because
Speaker 3: I see us doing this too. We go I'm pregnant,
Speaker 3: this will pass, I have little kids, this will pass, school,
Speaker 3: this will part, Like what are we waiting for?
Speaker 4: I agree with you.
Speaker 2: Like the thing that I found upsetting when Eliza said
Speaker 2: to us, I hate that this is a season thing
Speaker 2: because she said it makes me feel dismissed. And when
Speaker 2: I say that to somebody this is a season, that
Speaker 2: is the last thing I mean, I do not mean
Speaker 2: to dismiss them, Like, to be really honest, When I
Speaker 2: think back to that season that we're talking about, the
Speaker 2: early kid season, the having little kids and massive daycare bills,
Speaker 2: and rushing, rushing, rushing every day, and having no family
Speaker 2: support and all that stuff. I cannot believe we survived it, right,
Speaker 2: But that doesn't mean there weren't a few moments in
Speaker 2: there of glory, and that when I get hijacked by
Speaker 2: you know, Facebook memories or my phone memories of the
Speaker 2: little kids in that time, my heart doesn't tweak with like, oh,
Speaker 2: every moment is good and bad. But the thing about
Speaker 2: the advice about seasons is you can only see that
Speaker 2: from a distance, you know, like you can only see
Speaker 2: that that was just a time of life when you're
Speaker 2: past it. And the thing about aging and wisdom, and
Speaker 2: I found that really interesting too in the Hamish Blake
Speaker 2: Assembly thing that Richard Brampton advice. Because I don't think
Speaker 2: it's true for everybody. I don't know that I would
Speaker 2: give everything to go back to being twenty two. I
Speaker 2: don't think I would. I thought it's interesting that men
Speaker 2: think that more. However, there's no question that as I
Speaker 2: get older, if I allow myself to think about it,
Speaker 2: I get very panicky about time running out.
Speaker 4: But the thing is is.
Speaker 2: That the thing about aging is we do get more
Speaker 2: wisdom because I do know what it was like to be,
Speaker 2: you know, young and have a young family and all
Speaker 2: those things, but you don't know what it's like to
Speaker 2: be on the other side of that. So, you know,
Speaker 2: denying that people who've been through things have wisdom about
Speaker 2: it because it makes you feel bad is just silly.
Speaker 3: So do you think that savoring is something that you
Speaker 3: inevitably get better at as you get.
Speaker 4: I have got better at it as I go.
Speaker 2: I reckon that I now know how to savor, and
Speaker 2: I reckon I've only just really figured it out. So
Speaker 2: to me, what savoring is about? And you've said this
Speaker 2: to me before me and I think it's really true.
Speaker 2: You know how people say, but are you happy? You know,
Speaker 2: we have a podcast called that Happiness isn't a state,
Speaker 2: like a solid, constant state. What you get better at,
Speaker 2: in my experience as you get older is reckonizing the
Speaker 2: moments of it. So, like, you know, my life, like
Speaker 2: everybody listening to this, life is complicated and busy and difficult,
Speaker 2: and sometimes it's really stressful and sometimes it's not. What
Speaker 2: I'm better at now is on those rare occasions when
Speaker 2: I might be sitting around the table with my kids
Speaker 2: and nobody's fighting and everybody's eating and someone's getting along,
Speaker 2: and maybe someone's telling me a story about like almost
Speaker 2: screenshotting that moment in my mind, like savoring it while
Speaker 2: it's there, but not thinking, oh, this is how life
Speaker 2: is now, because that's not true. I'm better at savoring
Speaker 2: moments of happiness and going in this moment right now,
Speaker 2: this is fucking pretty perfect. In another hour, it'd probably
Speaker 2: all be different again, you know. And I think that
Speaker 2: to me, that's what savoring means, and it is the
Speaker 2: key to happiness in a way, because otherwise you're just
Speaker 2: constantly striving for something that's like a constant plane.
Speaker 3: Yeah, or you're living only in the past or the future.
Speaker 3: Right Because I'm a very nostalgic person, and I look
Speaker 3: back and think, I don't know, I miss things that
Speaker 3: I'm sentimental about, things that have passed, and I feel
Speaker 3: as though time is speeding up. But I was reading
Speaker 3: about micro joys and how it is like I have
Speaker 3: never enjoyed my morning coffee more.
Speaker 5: I feel as.
Speaker 3: Though even that moment I go, I love having a
Speaker 3: coffee at the night. I like how it tastes, I
Speaker 3: like the smell, I like the experience. Maybe that's the
Speaker 3: highest iile' have all day, and that doesn't make me sad. Maya,
Speaker 3: are you nostalgic? You don't strike me as very nostalgic.
Speaker 2: You wrote one of the most famous pieces that's ever
Speaker 2: been published on the internet about the nostalgia of watching
Speaker 2: your kids grow up.
Speaker 4: You did that beautiful piece.
Speaker 1: You're every time I talk about it, I feel like
Speaker 1: I get tiery.
Speaker 5: Maybe you are nostalgia he is.
Speaker 1: You know what I wrote. I think in that piece
Speaker 1: is that there's a lot of emphasis on first. When
Speaker 1: you've got little kids, you want to move forward. You're
Speaker 1: excited to get to that next stage, and also you
Speaker 1: want it to get easier. You know, first two, first night,
Speaker 1: sleeping in a big bed, first steps, first, all of
Speaker 1: those things. But what you don't see is the last.
Speaker 1: What you only see in the review mirror is the last.
Speaker 1: And I find that the experience of being a grandmother
Speaker 1: is incredibly beautiful but emotional because I see you guys
Speaker 1: experiencing all of those firsts, and to see your child
Speaker 1: experiencing those firsts really makes you remember what it was
Speaker 1: like when they used to faultless sleep in your arms,
Speaker 1: or you know, when they used to reach for your hand,
Speaker 1: in the playground. But the good part of it is
Speaker 1: that you can savor your grandchildren in a way that
Speaker 1: you can't save your children. And that's been the most
Speaker 1: beautiful surprise about it, because when people are saying save
Speaker 1: the moment, save the moment with your children, it's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: but I've got to return an email, and I've got
Speaker 1: to make a mammogram appointment, and I've got to buy
Speaker 1: new shoes for the thing and take the dog to
Speaker 1: the vet. And it's like, I know, my child's being
Speaker 1: really cute in this moment, but I can't really sit
Speaker 1: there and get all gushy. And also, because there's so
Speaker 1: many of those moments all day, every day, and if
Speaker 1: you just stood there and gazed at your child or
Speaker 1: your partner or your animal, you wouldn't get anything done.
Speaker 1: But then when you're a grandparent, and I imagine it's
Speaker 1: also like this, being an aunt as well, or maybe
Speaker 1: a godmother is because you have such finite time with
Speaker 1: the child, you don't have to do all that stuff,
Speaker 1: so there's less mental load. It's very hard savoring things
Speaker 1: when you've got a mental load. And I think that's
Speaker 1: what was important about what Eliza said, because she says
Speaker 1: that when someone says to you it's just a season,
Speaker 1: when you're struggling with paying the rent, or juggling work
Speaker 1: with childcare, or trying to work out how you put
Speaker 1: four weeks of annually that you have into the twelve
Speaker 1: weeks of school holidays that your children have, or the
Speaker 1: fact that they finish at three clock and you finished
Speaker 1: work at five, and how does anyone in the world
Speaker 1: do this? And people go, it's just a season, and
Speaker 1: you're like, no, the system is boken one hundred percent.
Speaker 2: So I agree with what she said one hundred percent
Speaker 2: about this. It's just a season. Nonsense should not mean
Speaker 2: that we don't change anything. But I don't think it's
Speaker 2: meant to be dismissive. And I think the problem is
Speaker 2: I agree with you. I think I think it's meant
Speaker 2: to be helpful. It's meant to be Yeah, but and
Speaker 2: I know I totally recognize, you know, like I had
Speaker 2: years and years of one of my kids sleeping in
Speaker 2: the bed with me. Matilda still darts if she can,
Speaker 2: they like to be in the bed with me, And
Speaker 2: I remember bitching about that and getting that whole You know,
Speaker 2: one day, you know, there's your son isn't going to
Speaker 2: want to sleep with you, And you're like, yeah, Like
Speaker 2: I understand that. But at the same time, as you
Speaker 2: get older and you see the seasons passing, I find
Speaker 2: it helpful. Like I find it helpful right now. I
Speaker 2: recognize I spoke about this the other week on the show,
Speaker 2: but I recognize that I'm at the end of a
Speaker 2: particular season with my parents, Like I'm at the end
Speaker 2: of the season of them coming out to visit and
Speaker 2: us having adventures together and then being fit and healthy
Speaker 2: and me being able to do that. Like that season
Speaker 2: is petering out. It's like the end of summer. You know,
Speaker 2: fewer and fewer warm days, and that's sad, But there's
Speaker 2: also something profound about recognizing that that was the season
Speaker 2: that's closing. So I think we rail against wisdom sometimes,
Speaker 2: but it doesn't mean it's not true.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And your wisdom about talking about kids growing up,
Speaker 3: I've realized has enormously impacted how I parent, because a
Speaker 3: lot of people don't have conversations like that with other generations,
Speaker 3: right because we're all in And in fact, this article
Speaker 3: had a really good point, which was that when you're
Speaker 3: in whatever stage of parenting, also make sure you are
Speaker 3: speaking to parents with kids who are a bit older,
Speaker 3: because that gives you a little bit more perspective, and
Speaker 3: you're not all just going, oh, my goodness, that's sick
Speaker 3: all the time. The thing about the first and also
Speaker 3: that there will be lasts, and that I'm getting the sense, oh,
Speaker 3: pretty soon, I'm not going to hold this bottle anymore,
Speaker 3: which sounds like such a silly thing to get sentimental
Speaker 3: about that you try and savor it and go, this
Speaker 3: is the last, and this is what life is all about.
Speaker 5: It's all passing.
Speaker 2: But you're also right, man, we can't spend all our
Speaker 2: like savoring shouldn't be another job, like no, like giving
Speaker 2: you savoring to add to your list of to doos
Speaker 2: is like the least helpful.
Speaker 1: And I feel like women are so good at that
Speaker 1: we feel a way that's sad or upset or whatever,
Speaker 1: and then we feel bad that we don't feel the
Speaker 1: way that we feel like we should. So it's like
Speaker 1: we double down on feeling bad. Men don't do this
Speaker 1: to their credit. I wish we didn't do it, But
Speaker 1: that idea, that's somehow that I'm not doing life right.
Speaker 1: And there are a lot of things that I prefer
Speaker 1: I don't enjoy doing, but I love having done. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And like I don't love going on holidays, I do
Speaker 1: see it as making memories because I don't particularly love
Speaker 1: it in the moment, but I love looking back on
Speaker 1: it and the stories that you tell and the memories
Speaker 1: that you've made. But that doesn't mean that I savor
Speaker 1: it at the time, you know, Like I love thinking
Speaker 1: about the logis, but I really didn't enjoy it.
Speaker 4: But I like that you did it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I like that I did it.
Speaker 3: Out louders, let us know how you feel about seasons
Speaker 3: and savoring. Jump into the mummya out louders Facebook group.
Speaker 3: Can't wait to hear what you have to say.
Speaker 5: Mother mea out loud.
Speaker 4: It's recommendations time.
Speaker 1: And you know, this is a bit spooky because Jesse.
Speaker 2: And I are recommending a book that's kind of about
Speaker 2: what we were just talking about. And I actually interviewed
Speaker 2: the author of this for a show next week, and
Speaker 2: we've just talked about what we just talked about too.
Speaker 2: Obviously in the moment, it's in the air, it is, right.
Speaker 2: So my recommendation and Jesse's piggybacking on it is the
Speaker 2: New Leanne Moriarty novel.
Speaker 4: Is out now yesterday, right.
Speaker 2: I don't think I need to explain to Momma out
Speaker 2: loud as who Leanne Moriarty is.
Speaker 4: But she is one of Australia's most successful authors.
Speaker 2: She wrote Big Little Lies, she wrote Last Anniversary, The
Speaker 2: Husband's Secret, like a Million Things, and she literally sells
Speaker 2: millions of books, and so when a book of hers
Speaker 2: comes out, it's a big deal. This book is so
Speaker 2: freakin good. All three of us have read it because
Speaker 2: we're lucky.
Speaker 1: I am so bummed that I didn't get in and
Speaker 1: say I wanted to redeem this too, because we all.
Speaker 5: We fast to leave.
Speaker 3: And then Holly brought it up and I was like,
Speaker 3: when does it come out? Because we've all published books
Speaker 3: with Pamrick Millen who do lean And this is one
Speaker 3: of the advantages is that we get sent an early copy.
Speaker 5: Yes, and I book of the Job.
Speaker 3: I read the first chapter and so did my mum.
Speaker 3: We're on holidays together, and then we just fought over
Speaker 3: the book for the whole holiday.
Speaker 1: I had a really interesting experience. The book's called here
Speaker 1: One Moment, and it's about we're not going to give
Speaker 1: too much away, but the tagline is if you knew
Speaker 1: the future, would you try to fight fate? Well, you
Speaker 1: can tell it whole, because that's recommended.
Speaker 2: I'll do a little bit of the setup. As Mia says,
Speaker 2: we won't give too much away, but this is the
Speaker 2: beginning of it. And basically what happens is there's a
Speaker 2: mid life woman on a plane and the plane is delayed.
Speaker 2: We meet all the different people on the plane, and
Speaker 2: then she suddenly stands up and she tells each of
Speaker 2: them how and when they're going to die. That is
Speaker 2: how the first chapter of this book goes. It is
Speaker 2: so good, such a good premise. It read itself, this book.
Speaker 1: So what I found with this book is that I
Speaker 1: nearly put it down because I find that stuff confronting, Yeah, confronting.
Speaker 1: It makes me anxious thinking about death all those things.
Speaker 1: And yet I couldn't put it down, and I pushed
Speaker 1: through it. And I think I read it in one
Speaker 1: day because I just I was really pulled through it.
Speaker 1: And at the end, the way she lands the plane,
Speaker 1: not literally, but the way she wraps it all up
Speaker 1: is so skillful. Like you know, you guys are novelists,
Speaker 1: you get this. The skill with which she does it is.
Speaker 3: Extraordinary payoff is perfect And Holly, when you told me
Speaker 3: that you were interviewing Leanne Moriarty, you actually told me
Speaker 3: an interesting detail about her life and this might be
Speaker 3: particularly relevant to her.
Speaker 2: Yes, and so she if you're wondering what we're talking about,
Speaker 2: she is next Tuesday's guest on mid which is another
Speaker 2: podcast I do, and she's fantastic. And then it she
Speaker 2: talks about why this was so front of mine for her.
Speaker 2: She had recently lost her father and both she and
Speaker 2: her sister have been diagnosed with breast cancer and gone
Speaker 2: through treatment for breast cancer, which she talks about on mid.
Speaker 2: But she said she knew mortality was very front of
Speaker 2: mind for her, but she didn't realize quite how much
Speaker 2: until she was on a plane and something happened and
Speaker 2: it inspired this. The book is great, and I know,
Speaker 2: I'm sure they're alloud us going, oh yeah, well, what
Speaker 2: a surprise. You'd recommend this Leanne Moriarty book. She is
Speaker 2: one of the most favorite.
Speaker 1: It is just so good.
Speaker 5: It's so good.
Speaker 1: I loved all her books, but I love this one.
Speaker 1: I think it's the best one she's written. In News
Speaker 1: like Bloody love it.
Speaker 2: It's called here One moment, and it is in all
Speaker 2: good bookshops and wherever you get your books now.
Speaker 5: So that was a little bit of a popular recommendation.
Speaker 3: May you're really good at bringing in sort of the indie,
Speaker 3: the kind of undercover the left of center.
Speaker 5: Go what are you recommending?
Speaker 1: Holly is the basic bitch in the original?
Speaker 8: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I went to see a little movie with Blake Lively
Speaker 1: that it called Hims.
Speaker 12: With us, we all have an idea of what love
Speaker 12: can be.
Speaker 8: I want to see you again.
Speaker 4: Now you see me.
Speaker 12: You know what I mean, that special connection you feel,
Speaker 12: that first kiss. But fifteen seconds, that's all it takes
Speaker 12: to completely change everything. I'm so sorry.
Speaker 1: I loved it.
Speaker 5: I think i'd like it.
Speaker 1: I loved the movie. I think Blake Lively should be
Speaker 1: nominated for an Oscar.
Speaker 4: I don't think.
Speaker 1: I think all the backlash has been so mean, and
Speaker 1: I don't understand it because she is so good. The
Speaker 1: movie is so good. I think I understand what happened
Speaker 1: between her and just In Baldoni because there's two tracks
Speaker 1: to this. There's all the drama around the movie, and
Speaker 1: she and Justin Baldoni, who's the director and also her
Speaker 1: co star, they play a couple. They don't talk, and
Speaker 1: the author of the book, Colin, who doesn't talk, and
Speaker 1: none of the cast talk to him, and what happened?
Speaker 1: What happened? And he's got crisis pr and she's been
Speaker 1: dragged and canceled through media and on social media. But
Speaker 1: at the heart of it, I just loved the movie.
Speaker 1: And I know that everyone said, oh, I didn't like
Speaker 1: the book and I didn't like this. I didn't go
Speaker 1: to the movies much, and I just loved it. I
Speaker 1: thought it was so well done. I thought it was
Speaker 1: so interesting.
Speaker 2: Could I take Matilda? It's just fourteen?
Speaker 9: Is that?
Speaker 10: Like?
Speaker 2: I mean, I know it's got serious themes, but like.
Speaker 4: Would she enjoy it?
Speaker 2: Of course, I'm not allowed to go to the movies
Speaker 2: by myself, have to take a child.
Speaker 1: I think it's I really liked it. I really liked it.
Speaker 1: I'm not saying sorry.
Speaker 3: And if you're not going to watch the movie, just
Speaker 3: a little plug here. This week's episode of Canceled is
Speaker 3: all about it ends with us about the other story,
Speaker 3: the drama.
Speaker 1: Okay, the drama. Yeah. I went with my daughter and
Speaker 1: she didn't know about the drama. We spoke about this
Speaker 1: on a subscriber episode. But we had a big fight
Speaker 1: about trigger warnings afterwards, because she thought that there should
Speaker 1: have been one. I think there was at the beginning.
Speaker 1: There was like not a trigger warning, but just like
Speaker 1: the usual content warning that you get at the beginning
Speaker 1: of a film, what it's rated or yeah, whatever, But
Speaker 1: you know, in terms of actual violence, I can't say.
Speaker 1: And this is the thing. It's so subjective, like some
Speaker 1: people might say, oh, Marvel movie, Oh it's but it's
Speaker 1: all make believe I've.
Speaker 2: Seen about to talk about that army with your worst
Speaker 2: of the week, much worse.
Speaker 1: But trigger warnings and what makes you upset what doesn't
Speaker 1: make you upset? There were times I just looked away,
Speaker 1: like what I do in movies. If I know something
Speaker 1: bad is going to happen or something I don't want
Speaker 1: to see, I literally just look down at my hand
Speaker 1: for a while until it's over. Anyway, That's what I do.
Speaker 2: If you want all our recommendations, if you sometimes, like
Speaker 2: as people do in the out Louders group, they say,
Speaker 2: what was.
Speaker 4: That TV show?
Speaker 2: That brilliant, witty TV sho show that wholly recommend it?
Speaker 2: All our recommendations are always in the newsletter, So there's
Speaker 2: a link in the show notes for where you can
Speaker 2: subscribe to that and never miss recommendation again.
Speaker 3: Want unlimited out loud access, We drop episodes every Tuesday
Speaker 3: and Thursday exclusively for Mum and Maya subscribers. Follow the
Speaker 3: link in the show notes to get us in your
Speaker 3: ears five days a week. And a huge thank you
Speaker 3: to all our current subscribers.
Speaker 1: It's time for Best and Worst of the Week, the
Speaker 1: part of the show where we share a little more
Speaker 1: from our personal lives. They can be big things, they
Speaker 1: can be small things. It's important that this is a
Speaker 1: safe space without judgment or trigger warnings. Holly, what was your.
Speaker 4: The phrase trigger warning?
Speaker 1: I'd like to use it to poke at you. What's
Speaker 1: your worst of the week?
Speaker 2: So my worst of the week is mid related And
Speaker 2: I didn't mean for this to mention Mede a couple
Speaker 2: of times, what your podcast?
Speaker 4: I'm allowed?
Speaker 1: Thank you me, thank you for giving me this one
Speaker 1: and that one.
Speaker 2: Thank you anyway, my worst of the week is related
Speaker 2: to mid which is the other show I do conversation
Speaker 2: with GenEx women, and this week we did an episode
Speaker 2: about rage, which is very pertinent to midlife women. It's
Speaker 2: a great episode and I love it. That's not my worst.
Speaker 2: But my worst is the messages that I have got
Speaker 2: from so many midlife women for whom rage and anger
Speaker 2: and anxiety, but particularly raised and anger in midlife around
Speaker 2: hormones and other things, are making their lives really hard.
Speaker 2: I wrote a piece about this for Mama. We'll put
Speaker 2: a link in the showance to that too. I as
Speaker 2: I say in that piece, I woke up one day
Speaker 2: and even my hair was irritated. I just hated everybody.
Speaker 2: And I'm generally a very even tempered person, and it
Speaker 2: was one of the symptoms, not the only one, but
Speaker 2: one of the symptoms for me about perry and menopause,
Speaker 2: along with sleeplessness and anxiety. That really made me go, oh,
Speaker 2: I'm not okay. I thought I was skating through, but
Speaker 2: I'm not. And a lot of rage women have this.
Speaker 2: And we can make jokes about it, and we can
Speaker 2: make jokes about Karen's and we can make jokes about like, oh,
Speaker 2: my mom was in such a bad mood such a
Speaker 2: long time, But for a lot of women it's really
Speaker 2: upsetting because they're like, what's happening to me? I'm normally
Speaker 2: a kind, you know, tolerant person, and suddenly I cannot
Speaker 2: control myself.
Speaker 1: So that feeling of you know, you're out of control. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and you see the look in someone's eye, maybe someone
Speaker 1: in your family who you might be shouting at, and
Speaker 1: the deep shame that you have, but you also can't stop.
Speaker 1: Like it's awful. I found the rage one of the
Speaker 1: most difficult, along with the crying, one of the most
Speaker 1: difficult emotional symptoms.
Speaker 3: The energy it takes to try and keep a handle
Speaker 3: on your rage as well is enormous. So if you're
Speaker 3: walking around going it's there. I've said this to a
Speaker 3: therapist before, like, I just sometimes I feel like I
Speaker 3: will explode. I think a lot of are like I'm one,
Speaker 3: with all.
Speaker 1: Due respect to your people, our people have an actual
Speaker 1: hormonal reason, which is that as your estrogen drops, your
Speaker 1: estrogen is your happy hormone that keeps you very accommodating
Speaker 1: and wants approval. As that drops, suddenly the beast is unleashed.
Speaker 2: It's true, but you know, I'm not a doctor. We're
Speaker 2: not like you know.
Speaker 5: For me.
Speaker 2: It's true that hormone therapy is definitely helped, but I'm
Speaker 2: not telling people what to do with their lives. But
Speaker 2: it's also interesting because to your point, Jesse, women are
Speaker 2: very good at pushing down anger, like we have all
Speaker 2: been conditioned to do it and to put up with
Speaker 2: a lot of stuff and go that's fine, it's fine.
Speaker 4: I'm fine.
Speaker 2: So when you can't do that anymore, like sometimes I'm like, well,
Speaker 2: how unreasonable is it? How much is this estrogen? And
Speaker 2: how much is this just me being like I fucking
Speaker 2: had it anyway? So my worst is just understanding how
Speaker 2: many women out there are feeling really sad about it.
Speaker 2: And if that's you, I'm very sorry. Go and talk
Speaker 2: to someone and listen to me.
Speaker 3: I don't know if I told you, guys that Gran
Speaker 3: when she was about sixty five, I remember, being a
Speaker 3: little kid, bought a punching.
Speaker 5: Bag her garage.
Speaker 3: Yeah, she had a lot going on, and she was
Speaker 3: at that age still looking after Simon, my cousin, with
Speaker 3: an intellectual disability, and she was overwhelmed, probably postmenopausal or
Speaker 3: whatever it was. And she had a punching bag and
Speaker 3: it was the funniest thing to me as a kid.
Speaker 5: And now I'm like, where did that go?
Speaker 1: I get it?
Speaker 5: I would like to give it to my friend Allie.
Speaker 1: I love it anyway.
Speaker 2: My best is out Louder related, because you're all a
Speaker 2: On Monday's show, we had a topic that was like
Speaker 2: choose three words for your wardrobe or like how you
Speaker 2: would like your style to be, and one of them
Speaker 2: was an aspirational word, like this is what I would
Speaker 2: like to be And I didn't know what mine was
Speaker 2: and Mia picked it for me and she was right,
Speaker 2: and it was French. This is kind of funny, but
Speaker 2: it's true, like that sort of effortlessly stylish, that tossled hair,
Speaker 2: you know, the navy blue or that.
Speaker 4: Anyway, I don't.
Speaker 1: Think it's a big stretch for you. I'm going to say.
Speaker 1: It's not like if Jesse said French, or if I
Speaker 1: said French, it would be like come on, but hold
Speaker 1: that is, you know, that's why it resonates.
Speaker 8: You were right.
Speaker 4: She's very helpful.
Speaker 2: Actually we give her a lot of shit, but between
Speaker 2: me and Lee Campbell, they tell me what to wear
Speaker 2: and what to put in my face.
Speaker 4: I appreciate anyway.
Speaker 2: Out louders have been messaging me with all this like
Speaker 2: shop here, here's a link, by this, by that, and
Speaker 2: now all I want to do is buy blue shirts
Speaker 2: and all these fancy shops which is not ideal, but
Speaker 2: I love you all for jumping in and telling me
Speaker 2: how to shop and to you. My best week has
Speaker 2: definitely been discovering That's French, a.
Speaker 1: Special video for you whole that we will put in
Speaker 1: the out Louders newsletter this week about how to drench
Speaker 1: dress French Drench press, bench press French dress. I'm going
Speaker 1: to go next my worst of the week. I'm very
Speaker 1: angry about this. It's a music video and it is
Speaker 1: the new music video that came out this week by
Speaker 1: Sabrina Carpenter, whose music I like. She supported Taylor Swift
Speaker 1: on the Ears Tour Big at the Times, A massive,
Speaker 1: Yeah Massive. Her album is called Short and Sweet. She's
Speaker 1: very short sweet, She's very sweet, but her music videos
Speaker 1: are not so. Her video Please Please Please, which was
Speaker 1: a great music video that she made to hard launch
Speaker 1: her relationship with Barrichie Ogan, who was the star of
Speaker 1: Saltpern Still following anyway, that was like the two of them,
Speaker 1: they were like criminals and they met at a police
Speaker 1: station and that was really cool.
Speaker 12: I like that.
Speaker 1: This video is called Taste. The song is called Taste,
Speaker 1: and the song's fine like the song video is with
Speaker 1: Jenna or Tager, who is the star of Wednesday and
Speaker 1: the new movie Beetle Juice. Beetlejuice, it is the most violent, shocking, disturbing,
Speaker 1: distressing graphic it needed. It had one, and I sort
Speaker 1: of roll my eye. But then I was like, why
Speaker 1: is this even allowed on YouTube? I think I'm going
Speaker 1: to report it, And thirty one million people have seen it.
Speaker 2: It's hyperviolence, so I watched it too. It's stylized, right,
Speaker 2: it's a styl.
Speaker 1: General or Taga. They like cut each other's arms off
Speaker 1: with machetes. They shoot each other with guns. And I
Speaker 1: think the reason that I found it so disturbing and
Speaker 1: in all seriousness at a time when Taylor Swift had
Speaker 1: to cancel her concert because men with machetes had planned
Speaker 1: to come and stab young women her fans coming to
Speaker 1: that concert, there were other stabbings at another concert in
Speaker 1: Europe over the weekend. We know gun violence is appalling.
Speaker 1: People are getting shot in schools. I just found the glorification,
Speaker 1: the popification, the cutification of all of this violence. I
Speaker 1: didn't know it had a name, hyper violence. I think
Speaker 1: it's gross. I think it is irresponsible.
Speaker 2: I think it's awful, But mea right I'm not saying
Speaker 2: I necessarily felt this way, but like it's meant to
Speaker 2: be a joke, Like she falls and gets impaled on
Speaker 2: a fence poster, and then she gets up and she
Speaker 2: gets that pulled out, and then like it's not real,
Speaker 2: but it looks real.
Speaker 1: It's very graphic. It's not a cartoon, no, but it's
Speaker 1: not road Runner. It's Sabrina Carpenter falling and getting impaled
Speaker 1: on a fence post general or Tager cutting her arm off,
Speaker 1: the two of them splattered with blood, machete's flying guns
Speaker 1: like shooting each other, and then you see the result
Speaker 1: of the gun shot. And again I did what I
Speaker 1: think everybody should do, is that I didn't like it.
Speaker 1: I switched it off. I'm angry that it's made, but
Speaker 1: that's different to being angry that I wasn't warned about it.
Speaker 1: Efficient but so and I'm sure.
Speaker 2: You want to this because you're very smart about marketing.
Speaker 2: But Sabrina Carpenter's whole stick right. She is short and sweet,
Speaker 2: she is very stereotypically white girl pretty. She's very like
Speaker 2: marketed as like fifties pin up kind of thing. But
Speaker 2: every d and lots of the lyrics is about giving
Speaker 2: her edge. Yeah, isn't it right? Otherwise it would feel
Speaker 2: very old fashioned and very retro. But because she's got
Speaker 2: some rude words in her songs, because in her videos
Speaker 2: she does edgy things, that is very much what this is, right,
Speaker 2: with a bit of a sapphic kind of twist to it.
Speaker 1: So I'm disturbed when violence made cool and sexy and fun.
Speaker 4: It's like pulp fiction, but more what's your best?
Speaker 1: My best was actually going to the movies?
Speaker 5: Did I treat I did?
Speaker 1: I got a choctaw I love a chock top, and
Speaker 1: I also got sushi that I took into the movies.
Speaker 1: I don't know if you allowed to do that, and
Speaker 1: then I stood on my sushi. Anyway, what I found
Speaker 1: was because I never go to the movies and only
Speaker 1: went because Cocone, her friend, had booked tickets, and I went,
Speaker 1: can I come? It was Saturday night and I had
Speaker 1: nothing to do, so I went with them. And I
Speaker 1: think this is why I love the film so much,
Speaker 1: because I just wait till everything comes on streaming. The
Speaker 1: difference when you sitting in your laund room, I would
Speaker 1: have picked up my phone. I would have wandered into
Speaker 1: the kitchen I wouldn't have been impacted by the film,
Speaker 1: so might not have even said it was a very
Speaker 1: good film. But the experience of seeing it on the
Speaker 1: big screen, I did not want to pick up my
Speaker 1: phone once, which I was worried even going into it
Speaker 1: that I would be bored. And also there's something that
Speaker 1: you can't replicate of being in a cinema with people.
Speaker 1: And I remember that Emerald Fanelle, who was the director
Speaker 1: of Saltburn, she talked about how she wrote those scenes,
Speaker 1: some of those quite confronting sex scenes, because she wanted
Speaker 1: people to be in a movie theater watching them together.
Speaker 1: The experience of watching something together is very different to
Speaker 1: watching something like with strangers in it, and the whole
Speaker 1: movie theater. It was funny because the girl sitting next
Speaker 1: to me, there are a whole bunch of teenage girls, lots
Speaker 1: of teenage girls there. The girl next to me, teenage
Speaker 1: girls can be quite scary. Everyone's going me and mea
Speaker 1: and I kept turning around going. But her name was
Speaker 1: Mia as well, so we bonded and I was like, Maya,
Speaker 1: what did you think of the movie? And she loved it.
Speaker 1: Everyone was crying.
Speaker 2: Together, like this is what Hollywood keeps trying to tell
Speaker 2: us right, like we can't kill cinemas. Cinemas are closing
Speaker 2: and only really big big movie these Marvel movies and
Speaker 2: stuff are getting cinematic.
Speaker 1: Reminded me it's true that.
Speaker 2: Movies are better when you see them in the Yes
Speaker 2: by all movies pretty much.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's just not.
Speaker 5: My favorite movies I all saw.
Speaker 1: At the Jesse what's your worst of the week?
Speaker 3: My worst is I realized that my relationship was in
Speaker 3: dire straits when I found myself ordering the fair Play
Speaker 3: car what.
Speaker 1: Are they lots of?
Speaker 10: Out?
Speaker 2: Louder spoke about these after you How to winch about
Speaker 2: Luca recently.
Speaker 3: Maya, don't buy them because it's not gonna work. It's
Speaker 3: not gonna end well for you. But I learned about
Speaker 3: them from an episode of The Imperfect and they referred
Speaker 3: to the fair Play deck by Eve Rodsky.
Speaker 1: And oh I know.
Speaker 3: First, I'm gonna explain to you why I made it
Speaker 3: them because the theme of this show this week seems
Speaker 3: to be the word creep. We're talking about availability creep
Speaker 3: with work and trigger warning creep. The creep in my
Speaker 3: life has been like the job creep of certain household
Speaker 3: tasks which I am not cut out to do, and frankly,
Speaker 3: I don't.
Speaker 1: Particularly enjoy like which ones.
Speaker 5: Big one has been around food.
Speaker 3: So you start off breastfeeding and then you stop breastfeeding,
Speaker 3: but then you're at home because you have more of
Speaker 3: the flexibility for that period, and then you know what
Speaker 3: they eat, and you've done the allergens and you've been
Speaker 3: to the doctor who gives you all the information about
Speaker 3: protein and fat and all that kind of stuff. So
Speaker 3: then you go, well, if I'm feeding her, I might
Speaker 3: as well do the groceries. And then if you're doing
Speaker 3: the groceries, you're also like, well, i'm here, I might
Speaker 3: as well buy the size up for the clothes. And
Speaker 3: I've just looked around. I've had a few moments in
Speaker 3: the last few weeks, compounded by Luca going away for
Speaker 3: a week where I've gone this is not what it
Speaker 3: was meant to be.
Speaker 4: This is what happens.
Speaker 5: This is what happens.
Speaker 2: Exactly, say, this is exactly what happens.
Speaker 5: This is exactly what happens.
Speaker 1: So what would you call it, like domestic.
Speaker 5: Creed, domestic creep? I'm not domestic.
Speaker 3: No, like the mental load used to be, Luca used
Speaker 3: to be the king of the mental load. And now
Speaker 3: the scales have tipped and I'm kind of going hang on.
Speaker 3: And I said to him the other night, I said,
Speaker 3: I hate food. I hate making it, thinking about it.
Speaker 3: This baby needs a lot of it, and I'm hating it.
Speaker 3: And he said, I hear you, I hear you, which
Speaker 3: is what he always says. What can I action?
Speaker 5: And I was like, food, your bucket, your bucket, all
Speaker 5: of it.
Speaker 1: He loves food. Yeah.
Speaker 5: I was like, your bucket, you doing the food And
Speaker 5: he said what might that look like?
Speaker 3: And I was like no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
Speaker 1: No look.
Speaker 5: Anyway.
Speaker 3: So I order these cards in the most path aggressive
Speaker 3: move of my entire life. And what they have is
Speaker 3: one hundred household tasks on them. So it's like bedtime
Speaker 3: routine with the baby, childcare, the bins, groceries, pets, got
Speaker 3: all of them, and you choose which ones are related
Speaker 3: to you, and then you sit opposite each other with
Speaker 3: the alcoholic drink perhaps.
Speaker 5: And you put in your pile.
Speaker 3: And what I love about this job it's not about
Speaker 3: even because some jobs like putting the bins out is
Speaker 3: nothing like bedtime routine. No, not even what it's about
Speaker 3: is making the invisible things visible because I just think
Speaker 3: I don't think he realizes very clever, it's the best invention.
Speaker 3: And so yes, you sit there. I actually haven't told
Speaker 3: Lukey yet that I have the cards because we've been
Speaker 3: really busy, so the out louders know before Luca and I.
Speaker 3: So you haven't done it yet. I'm so true and
Speaker 3: chosen the car.
Speaker 1: Can there be a live stream of for subscribers see.
Speaker 5: I don't think you and Jason should do it because
Speaker 5: Jackson will be like mine.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't want him to know. I mean he
Speaker 1: does know how much he does.
Speaker 5: But he doesn't need.
Speaker 1: But it's true what you say, because everybody's tasks are
Speaker 1: invisible to the other person. It might be although maybe
Speaker 1: they aren't a lot of things that he I don't see, Yeah,
Speaker 1: that he does that you don't see.
Speaker 5: I agree.
Speaker 1: I like to think there are a lot of things
Speaker 1: that I do that Jason doesn't see, but they're just done.
Speaker 1: A lot of things that I do I just don't
Speaker 1: think you like, except things that aren't wouldn't be on
Speaker 1: a card, like emotional support.
Speaker 5: It's on the card.
Speaker 2: I am cheering you on because, as I've said, many
Speaker 2: times in the show. This is how all the domestic
Speaker 2: inequality starts. You start off going like we're equal, We're
Speaker 2: so equal, and then.
Speaker 4: Now you're not. Now you're not, and then you go
Speaker 4: home with a baby.
Speaker 3: You feel rage, you feel exhaustion, you feel irritable, and
Speaker 3: then you kind of go, am I being reasonable right now?
Speaker 5: Is this something I should bring up? So anyway, I've
Speaker 5: got my cards.
Speaker 1: I can't wait.
Speaker 4: I can't wait.
Speaker 5: I'll tell you all about it. Don't tell Locra I
Speaker 5: wants to bring it on him.
Speaker 3: My best is going to contradict everything I just said,
Speaker 3: which is that I got a Thermo mix.
Speaker 2: Yeah you did, and fout Laud has also told you
Speaker 2: to do that. It's a good job they exist. They
Speaker 2: are making our lives better in many ways.
Speaker 3: Full transparency. I'm doing some work with them. So I
Speaker 3: had this lady come to my house and show me
Speaker 3: how to use a Thermo mix. But this isn't sponsored
Speaker 3: or paid or anything. Do you even know what a
Speaker 3: Thermo mix?
Speaker 1: No? You know. I have a kitchen aid, which I
Speaker 1: really like because I know I'm a baker, which I
Speaker 1: think I could do in a Therma mix. But would
Speaker 1: it tell me? Because I made it a big cake
Speaker 1: because someone you started here this weekend, Zara, our new
Speaker 1: cheek content officer. And I was going to make a
Speaker 1: really big chocolate cake and I bought Smarties. I was
Speaker 1: going to put a big z Fizara and I was
Speaker 1: going to bring it in and I made the whole
Speaker 1: cake and then I realized the butter was rancid. Oh, anyway,
Speaker 1: that's a tangent.
Speaker 3: The Thermo mix would carry your life. I'm actually becoming
Speaker 3: very evangelical. So the thermoment, what does it do that
Speaker 3: I got? Is I just it just makes everything.
Speaker 1: Well, it cooked dinner if I just look at it.
Speaker 3: Yes, Yes, all you have to do is just communicate
Speaker 3: with your mind what you need.
Speaker 1: People with Thermo mixes are verydellical.
Speaker 2: Yes, so tell me just because here's my question. Are
Speaker 2: they simple?
Speaker 5: Yes?
Speaker 2: Because I think this is a very common thing that happens,
Speaker 2: is that when we were being very domestic once in lockdown,
Speaker 2: I went out and spent lots of money on a
Speaker 2: food processor. It's very complicated. I've never got it out
Speaker 2: of the cupboard because it's like twenty five different like fittings, things, things,
Speaker 2: And I was like, I just wanted to chop some
Speaker 2: carrots for me.
Speaker 3: This is as simple as a kid's book in terms
Speaker 3: of instruction. So I will type in. So the other
Speaker 3: day I had a lot of eggs and I went,
Speaker 3: and there's a thing Jesse hate'es waste, And I went,
Speaker 3: I don't want to waste my eggs. So I type
Speaker 3: into my Thermo Mix eggs and it gives me every
Speaker 3: recipe I could possibly make with eggs. And then I go, yeah,
Speaker 3: I'll make those egg and cheese muffins for Luna. And
Speaker 3: then it measures it out like it tells you. It
Speaker 3: has scales in it, so it's like put this in.
Speaker 3: Put six eggs that would be good for bacon. It's
Speaker 3: perfect for baking. And then it gives you every single
Speaker 3: step of the thing. You never have to chop again,
Speaker 3: which is just for me, Like make it.
Speaker 5: A bolid as.
Speaker 1: It's not like one bowl.
Speaker 5: It's one bowl, so no cleaning up.
Speaker 3: You never have to use your stovetop right because it's
Speaker 3: like good, everything just happens in here. Yeah, I made
Speaker 3: a pasta, I've made those muffins.
Speaker 1: It is that's clever.
Speaker 5: You can make cocktails.
Speaker 1: Is that a big?
Speaker 4: One Friday night?
Speaker 3: I make all my smoothies in It changed my life.
Speaker 3: But what I really need to do is get Luca
Speaker 3: excited about.
Speaker 5: The Thermo mix. That's my job this weekend to make
Speaker 5: it Luca's exciting new toy.
Speaker 4: To make it his. It's a present for him.
Speaker 5: Yeah, exactly, Out loud as.
Speaker 1: If you've ever wondered how Jesse and I navigate the
Speaker 1: threesome that is our relationship on and off this podcast,
Speaker 1: we have a little treat for you in a subscriber
Speaker 1: episode where we almost had a little therapy session with
Speaker 1: the three of ourselves. With the three of us, it
Speaker 1: was great. It was so exciting, I can't speak anymore.
Speaker 1: We also helping out Louder, who is in a bit
Speaker 1: of a threesome situation, using our own experience to solve
Speaker 1: her problems. You can listen by the link in our
Speaker 1: show notes. That is all we.
Speaker 2: Have time for this week. Wonderful out louders. Thank you
Speaker 2: to all of you you've heard throughout the show the
Speaker 2: many ways you make our lives better. You tell us
Speaker 2: how to divvy up with the household tasks, what to wear,
Speaker 2: how to cook?
Speaker 1: We love it.
Speaker 2: Thank you all for listening.
Speaker 4: To today's show.
Speaker 2: We're going to be back in your ears next week,
Speaker 2: and a massive thanks to our team, our executive producer
Speaker 2: Bruce Deby, our producer Emmeline Gazillis, and we've had additional
Speaker 2: audio production by Leo paute Is and we'll be back
Speaker 2: in your ears next week.
Speaker 1: Bye bye bye. Shout out to any Mumma Miya subscribers listening.
Speaker 1: If you love the show and want to support us
Speaker 1: as well, subscribing to Mamma mia is the very best
Speaker 1: way to do so. There is a link in the
Speaker 1: episode description.