WEBVTT - We Just Want This "Season" To Be Over 0:00:10.287 --> 0:00:13.047 You're listening to Amma Mea podcast. 0:00:13.727 --> 0:00:16.767 Mamma Mea acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters 0:00:16.807 --> 0:00:23.607 that this podcast is recorded on Hello, and welcome to 0:00:23.687 --> 0:00:26.567 Mama Mia out Loud. And to Friday, which is the 0:00:26.647 --> 0:00:28.807 show when we take a break from the news cycle 0:00:28.927 --> 0:00:29.687 an next day. 0:00:31.327 --> 0:00:34.087 Their little asmr oh stop. 0:00:34.247 --> 0:00:36.727 Actually I'm about to sneeze, and that's not gonna be 0:00:37.767 --> 0:00:38.527 for anyone. 0:00:38.887 --> 0:00:42.007 Today It's Friday, the thirtieth of August, and my name 0:00:42.127 --> 0:00:45.647 is Holly Wainwright, I'm Me Friedman, and I'm Jesse Stevens. 0:00:45.967 --> 0:00:49.247 And on the show today is savor the season you're in, 0:00:49.687 --> 0:00:53.167 the most infuriating advice you could give a person, and 0:00:53.607 --> 0:00:56.167 the book you should read this very weekend, a much 0:00:56.247 --> 0:00:59.767 talked about movie, and Jesse and I are piggybacking together 0:01:00.127 --> 0:01:02.127 on a recommendation of the one book you have to 0:01:02.167 --> 0:01:04.447 read this weekend. And me has seen a very talked 0:01:04.487 --> 0:01:07.887 about movie. That's our recommendations. Also sitting in the dark 0:01:07.927 --> 0:01:12.407 with strangers, the unstopped force of midlife female fury, and 0:01:12.487 --> 0:01:13.807 a fancy kitchen gadget. 0:01:13.887 --> 0:01:15.007 That's our best and worst. 0:01:15.087 --> 0:01:17.527 But first, in case you missed it, there's a new 0:01:17.567 --> 0:01:21.527 sexuality available. Well, it's not available. People have always had it, 0:01:21.567 --> 0:01:23.647 I assume, but now there's a new word for it, 0:01:24.247 --> 0:01:28.607 and it's called being abrosexual. And this means your sexuality 0:01:28.727 --> 0:01:32.127 changes over time, so you might be attracted to different 0:01:32.207 --> 0:01:36.087 genders at different times of your life or have varying 0:01:36.447 --> 0:01:39.487 levels of sexual attraction to those genders, so you might 0:01:39.647 --> 0:01:43.967 switch between being heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual, and asexual. And I 0:01:43.967 --> 0:01:47.767 guess the umbrella term for someone who dabbles or has 0:01:47.847 --> 0:01:52.687 different eras of their sexuality is being abrosexual. It's like 0:01:52.727 --> 0:01:56.287 a gender fluid equivalent of sexuality. Does that make sense? Ye? 0:01:56.767 --> 0:01:59.687 I have a question, which is, don't you think that 0:01:59.727 --> 0:02:04.127 we are beginning to find that most people are abrosexual, 0:02:04.567 --> 0:02:07.327 that sexuality is something that changes for a lifetime, Like 0:02:07.807 --> 0:02:11.167 we've seen women who get divorced and then the next 0:02:11.207 --> 0:02:13.767 relationship might be with a woman, or there might be 0:02:13.847 --> 0:02:19.087 periods of a decade where someone says I'm totally asexual. Like, 0:02:19.407 --> 0:02:21.807 I guess I appreciate that there's a word for it, 0:02:21.847 --> 0:02:26.567 but then I'm also like, is naming something that's fluid 0:02:26.887 --> 0:02:28.087 the opposite to fluid? 0:02:28.767 --> 0:02:29.447 You know what I mean? 0:02:29.647 --> 0:02:29.807 Oh? 0:02:29.927 --> 0:02:30.847 Yeah, Like if. 0:02:30.767 --> 0:02:35.647 There are paradox in trying to create new labels for 0:02:35.727 --> 0:02:37.927 things that can't be labeled, which is at sexuality. 0:02:37.927 --> 0:02:39.327 There's a fluidity to it. 0:02:39.247 --> 0:02:42.287 That is definitely new, Like I don't think that, well, 0:02:42.367 --> 0:02:44.887 it's probably not new, no, but the idea that we're 0:02:44.927 --> 0:02:46.367 acknowledging it is new. 0:02:46.447 --> 0:02:49.087 What I think is interesting because there'll be people listening 0:02:49.167 --> 0:02:51.047 right now whose eyes have rolled into the back of 0:02:51.087 --> 0:02:54.527 their head, and I hope they're not driving because that's dangerous, 0:02:55.327 --> 0:02:59.647 And then there'll be others that are probably thinking, oh, well, 0:02:59.847 --> 0:03:00.767 that's what I am. 0:03:01.247 --> 0:03:03.007 Why do you think people would roll their eyes at this? 0:03:03.167 --> 0:03:06.047 Oh, people do. I roll my eyes at it sometimes 0:03:06.087 --> 0:03:09.407 because I think if you feel like you have a 0:03:09.487 --> 0:03:15.607 name that makes sense for your sexuality, then you don't 0:03:15.727 --> 0:03:18.847 understand why everybody needs to be a special snowflake and 0:03:18.887 --> 0:03:21.847 have a specific word. And that's not just an attitude 0:03:21.847 --> 0:03:24.207 of older people, although it is more common probably in 0:03:24.287 --> 0:03:26.807 older people. I know young people who also roll their 0:03:26.807 --> 0:03:29.967 eyes very heavily at this idea of everybody gets their 0:03:29.967 --> 0:03:33.407 own type of sexuality, and not just straight young people. 0:03:34.767 --> 0:03:37.767 I know young people who have I wouldn't even call 0:03:37.807 --> 0:03:41.647 it different sexualities. It's just not relevant. To them, it's 0:03:41.727 --> 0:03:43.727 just why put a label on it? But then other 0:03:43.767 --> 0:03:46.767 people find labels really helpful. So it almost comes back 0:03:46.807 --> 0:03:50.167 to Holly's idea, which I disagree with about trigger warnings, 0:03:50.167 --> 0:03:53.447 which is what's the harm? Like, use a label if 0:03:53.487 --> 0:03:56.127 you want to. If you don't feel that it helps, you, 0:03:56.887 --> 0:04:00.327 don't use one, but don't police where the other people 0:04:00.447 --> 0:04:00.967 use the label. 0:04:01.087 --> 0:04:02.927 How how do you identify? 0:04:03.767 --> 0:04:08.167 Probably, well, it's really hard because there's who you actually 0:04:08.207 --> 0:04:11.407 have sex with, which is my husband, who's a man, 0:04:11.807 --> 0:04:13.887 and that's who I've had sex with for you know, 0:04:14.007 --> 0:04:17.127 thirty odd years. And then there's who I might have 0:04:17.207 --> 0:04:20.567 sex with if I wasn't married to him, and I 0:04:20.567 --> 0:04:23.767 don't know. I don't know. Would I have sex with women? Probably? 0:04:24.287 --> 0:04:26.087 Would I also have sex with men? Probably? 0:04:26.407 --> 0:04:27.567 Like what if? 0:04:27.727 --> 0:04:32.687 Is there a word for hypothetical? So I'm a hypothetic? 0:04:32.847 --> 0:04:35.847 Used to be like rip your clothes off, and now 0:04:35.887 --> 0:04:37.687 I'm like, I'd rather eat a box of hair? Is 0:04:37.727 --> 0:04:38.807 there is there a word for that? 0:04:38.927 --> 0:04:39.727 Do I get a label? 0:04:39.847 --> 0:04:41.207 I think label for me? 0:04:41.327 --> 0:04:43.207 I think you should make up your own word. I 0:04:43.247 --> 0:04:48.927 think the word is tired. All week, we've been busting 0:04:48.927 --> 0:04:51.887 to talk about a sub stack published for The Evil 0:04:51.927 --> 0:04:56.127 Witch's newsletter titled no amount of cherishing your kid now 0:04:56.287 --> 0:04:59.807 will let you skip feeling melancholy later. And if you 0:04:59.847 --> 0:05:02.687 don't have kids, this isn't really about kids. It's about 0:05:02.687 --> 0:05:06.007 periods of your life you're told to cherish and savor. 0:05:06.167 --> 0:05:09.047 So I remember hearing it a lot at university or 0:05:09.327 --> 0:05:11.767 my last years of school, and people would say they're 0:05:11.807 --> 0:05:12.927 the best years of your life. 0:05:12.927 --> 0:05:15.047 A lot of pressure when people tell you that, yeah, 0:05:15.167 --> 0:05:17.287 best day of your life, best time of your life. 0:05:17.567 --> 0:05:19.087 And older people do it to younger people. 0:05:19.167 --> 0:05:22.927 My daughter just finished school last year and she's felt 0:05:22.927 --> 0:05:23.767 so much pressure. 0:05:24.047 --> 0:05:25.607 We decided to speak to a few people in the 0:05:25.647 --> 0:05:29.327 Mummeya office about what they've been told to savor and 0:05:29.367 --> 0:05:30.207 how it made them feel. 0:05:30.247 --> 0:05:31.007 Here's what they said. 0:05:32.287 --> 0:05:34.167 It pisces me off, and people say save in the 0:05:34.207 --> 0:05:37.207 moment when your two year old is being a testing, 0:05:37.287 --> 0:05:41.487 little nightmare, and people just say, oh, they're only babies once, Like, 0:05:42.047 --> 0:05:45.367 I get it, but she's pissing me off. 0:05:45.407 --> 0:05:48.407 Everyone used to tell me to savor the moment when 0:05:48.447 --> 0:05:51.327 I was going to university, because once you get into 0:05:51.407 --> 0:05:53.607 the real world and you have to start working full time, 0:05:53.647 --> 0:05:56.327 you know, no one likes that, But I was going 0:05:56.367 --> 0:06:00.207 to university during COVID time, so I was literally sitting 0:06:00.247 --> 0:06:04.207 at home doing assignments in the dark, sad, and that's 0:06:04.207 --> 0:06:05.807 not really a moment I wanted to savor. 0:06:06.367 --> 0:06:10.287 When I moved overseas Australia, everybody was saying, oh God, enjoy, 0:06:10.847 --> 0:06:13.247 you don't want to get to see this one's whereas 0:06:13.287 --> 0:06:15.567 deep down inside I was an anxious mess about me 0:06:15.607 --> 0:06:18.767 have a halfway across the world where absolutely nothing. 0:06:19.727 --> 0:06:21.807 The last time I remember someone telling me to save 0:06:21.927 --> 0:06:25.127 the moment outside of parenthood was a colleague who told 0:06:25.127 --> 0:06:28.127 me exactly that, right before I got made redundant. It 0:06:28.247 --> 0:06:31.367 was a manager work environment was toxic as hell, and 0:06:32.127 --> 0:06:35.447 people had been made redundant and everyone was scared. And 0:06:35.607 --> 0:06:37.807 so he turned to me and said, just save at 0:06:37.807 --> 0:06:40.127 the moment. You've got a great paying job today. 0:06:40.727 --> 0:06:41.407 Thanks mate. 0:06:41.967 --> 0:06:45.047 When we've been talking about this newsletter all wake, our 0:06:45.287 --> 0:06:48.247 head of content, Eliza, had something really interesting to say 0:06:48.247 --> 0:06:50.967 about it. And for context, she has three very little kids. 0:06:51.407 --> 0:06:54.047 She is in the thick of it as much as 0:06:54.087 --> 0:06:55.607 one can be, and. 0:06:55.527 --> 0:06:57.367 She's just moved to Australia from other country. 0:06:57.487 --> 0:07:00.167 Yep. Here are some of her insights. 0:07:00.447 --> 0:07:04.087 I hate when people say, oh, it's just a season 0:07:04.167 --> 0:07:06.887 that you're in. It implies that you don't have any 0:07:06.967 --> 0:07:11.567 agency to change what's going on on. I understand when 0:07:11.887 --> 0:07:14.247 like I walk down the street and my kid does 0:07:14.287 --> 0:07:16.847 something funny and people go, oh, that's like, isn't this 0:07:16.887 --> 0:07:20.127 a great season? Love that sentiment, But I hate that 0:07:20.207 --> 0:07:23.767 sentiment where I'm having a shit time, they're not sleeping 0:07:23.807 --> 0:07:27.207 at night, my bills are stacking up because of childcare, 0:07:27.287 --> 0:07:30.487 and people go, oh, it's a season. That implies that 0:07:30.567 --> 0:07:33.247 I have no agency to create change in my life. 0:07:33.687 --> 0:07:37.607 It stops us talking about systemic issues, for example, in 0:07:37.647 --> 0:07:40.007 this season. Is it just normal that my childcare is 0:07:40.047 --> 0:07:43.167 meant to be more expensive than my mortgage? Is it 0:07:43.447 --> 0:07:45.647 normal that as a working mum, I don't get to 0:07:45.687 --> 0:07:49.047 see my friends and like my husband as much because 0:07:49.487 --> 0:07:52.767 I have to race around and workplace as well. They're 0:07:52.767 --> 0:07:56.527 being flexible, it's still really hard for working moms. Do 0:07:56.647 --> 0:07:58.647 I have to sit in this shit? So? 0:07:58.727 --> 0:08:00.687 What does it mean to save uh? And does it 0:08:00.767 --> 0:08:04.567 actually make us think more positively? The writer Claire Zulki 0:08:04.927 --> 0:08:07.367 says that on social media, when you have a wind 0:08:07.487 --> 0:08:11.327 or you complain, particularly at being in the trenches with parenting. 0:08:11.767 --> 0:08:15.167 The common retort is you'll miss this one day, she writes. 0:08:15.727 --> 0:08:18.447 It can sound like they're saying that cherishing each moment 0:08:18.527 --> 0:08:20.767 of young parenthood fully and with an open heart and 0:08:20.887 --> 0:08:24.647 zero negative feelings will inoculate you later against feelings of 0:08:24.687 --> 0:08:28.087 bittersweetness or just plain grief when your kids are older. 0:08:28.687 --> 0:08:31.007 No amount of keeping your mouth shut when they're at 0:08:31.007 --> 0:08:33.647 a hard phase will make you feel any less sad 0:08:33.767 --> 0:08:36.927 when they leave someday. This was her hunch, and so 0:08:36.967 --> 0:08:40.847 she interviewed a psychology professor named Fred Bryant about this 0:08:40.967 --> 0:08:44.287 idea of savoring, and he said that nostalgia is really 0:08:44.327 --> 0:08:47.087 important and brings a sense of meaning to our lives, 0:08:47.647 --> 0:08:51.527 and savoring is actually all about accepting loss, that all 0:08:51.567 --> 0:08:54.047 good things and all bad things must come. 0:08:53.967 --> 0:08:54.847 To an end. 0:08:54.927 --> 0:08:56.287 That person is very smart. 0:08:56.447 --> 0:09:00.087 Yes, well, they went to university like me. You two 0:09:00.207 --> 0:09:03.887 have kids that are not babies anymore. Do you feel 0:09:03.887 --> 0:09:07.087 a compulsion to yell at me to savor every moment? 0:09:07.567 --> 0:09:09.927 No, but I have a compulsion and to yell at 0:09:09.967 --> 0:09:12.727 all the people winging about being told to savor, because 0:09:12.807 --> 0:09:15.567 come on, is that really what it's like you say? 0:09:15.847 --> 0:09:16.167 Today? 0:09:16.167 --> 0:09:17.647 I had to clean up a lot of vomit and 0:09:17.727 --> 0:09:19.727 rush the kid to blah blah, and some idiot's just 0:09:19.767 --> 0:09:22.367 saying to you save. At this moment, I see a 0:09:22.407 --> 0:09:24.527 lot of parents complaining about things, and no one's saying 0:09:24.527 --> 0:09:28.087 that everybody's in it together, don't Oh aren't they do? 0:09:28.207 --> 0:09:30.967 These people just finding things to moan about about our people. 0:09:31.047 --> 0:09:34.487 Holly, you are on a different algorithm to me. I 0:09:34.687 --> 0:09:36.607 know what they're talking about, which is that there is 0:09:36.607 --> 0:09:42.647 this trending kind of motherhood content. I've actually found, controversially 0:09:42.687 --> 0:09:43.927 some of it really helpful. 0:09:44.007 --> 0:09:46.767 Yes, because you the thing that I found interesting about this. 0:09:46.927 --> 0:09:48.247 What's the trend? I don't understand. 0:09:48.367 --> 0:09:51.327 But when you had your baby, you said to me 0:09:51.407 --> 0:09:53.887 a million times. Everybody has only told me how shit 0:09:53.927 --> 0:09:56.247 it is. There isn't enough stuff out there telling me 0:09:56.287 --> 0:09:58.247 how good it is. And now what I'm hearing from 0:09:58.287 --> 0:09:59.727 everybody is stop telling me how. 0:09:59.647 --> 0:10:00.087 Good it is. 0:10:00.127 --> 0:10:01.567 I want to talk about how shit it is. And 0:10:01.607 --> 0:10:03.767 I'm just like, oh my god, can anyone say anything? 0:10:04.087 --> 0:10:07.567 So a lot of people say and I guess it's wisdom. 0:10:07.847 --> 0:10:11.727 And it's also people communicating about parenting from different stages, 0:10:11.767 --> 0:10:13.847 which I find annoying, which is you think. 0:10:13.767 --> 0:10:15.727 Newborns are hard, wait until they can too. 0:10:15.767 --> 0:10:18.607 And I'm like, Okay, that's actually not really helpful. But 0:10:18.687 --> 0:10:20.847 the savoring thing I always say I read this thing, 0:10:20.887 --> 0:10:22.887 but actually I just saw it on TikTok and it said, 0:10:24.007 --> 0:10:27.047 whenever you feel frustrated, or you feel irritated or whatever, 0:10:27.087 --> 0:10:29.967 all the multitude of emotions you feel with kids, look 0:10:30.007 --> 0:10:32.527 at the size of their hands, and it just helps 0:10:32.607 --> 0:10:34.207 to remind you that they're really. 0:10:34.007 --> 0:10:36.527 Little, and they'll never be this little, and they'll. 0:10:36.287 --> 0:10:38.527 Never be this little again. Which is a cliche and 0:10:38.647 --> 0:10:41.807 might sound frustrating. I actually find some of this savoring 0:10:41.887 --> 0:10:46.367 talk really helpful because it does put into perspective when 0:10:46.367 --> 0:10:50.127 it's a long day or when you've made sacrifices. There's 0:10:50.167 --> 0:10:52.687 something very Sisaphian about it. It feels like you get 0:10:52.767 --> 0:10:54.127 up and you can do the same thing and the 0:10:54.167 --> 0:10:57.847 same thing and the same thing. But when I consider 0:10:58.567 --> 0:11:03.247 that in ten twenty thirty years, I would do anything, 0:11:03.527 --> 0:11:05.167 and I truly believe this, that I would probably do 0:11:05.207 --> 0:11:07.487 anything to go back to this moment now when my 0:11:07.727 --> 0:11:11.767 baby is little, And then it does offer I think, 0:11:11.807 --> 0:11:15.407 an element of mindfulness where I can sit there and go, okay, 0:11:15.567 --> 0:11:18.207 try and love the good bits, and in fact, there 0:11:18.287 --> 0:11:20.607 was you know the assembly that you recommended Holly, just 0:11:20.727 --> 0:11:21.407 I know what you're doing. 0:11:21.447 --> 0:11:24.167 Yeah, there's a Hamish Blake quote which I can't stop 0:11:24.167 --> 0:11:24.767 thinking about. 0:11:25.007 --> 0:11:28.607 We had Richard Branson on the show and one of 0:11:28.607 --> 0:11:30.807 the guys on our radio show, Jack He basically said 0:11:30.807 --> 0:11:33.367 to Richard Bresley is like, you are a billionaire. Can 0:11:33.407 --> 0:11:36.087 we just go downstairs to the ATM just give me 0:11:36.127 --> 0:11:39.767 a thousand dollars? Like just give me, like nothing, it's 0:11:39.807 --> 0:11:42.167 nothing to you, and it's like, this would change my month. 0:11:42.407 --> 0:11:44.847 In the response to that, Richard Branson was like, I'll 0:11:44.887 --> 0:11:46.767 take you this something, I'll give you all my money for. 0:11:47.687 --> 0:11:51.087 And Zack's like really, He's like yeah, your age, And 0:11:51.167 --> 0:11:53.447 so I'm like that's interesting. And I remember hearing that 0:11:53.447 --> 0:11:56.447 and I'm like, Jack's twenty two, and we're like, what 0:11:56.447 --> 0:11:59.047 do you mean by that? He's like, I would happily 0:11:59.287 --> 0:12:02.607 be broke and twenty two than a billionaire in sixty 0:12:02.687 --> 0:12:03.567 eight or whatever it. 0:12:03.487 --> 0:12:03.967 Was at the time. 0:12:04.047 --> 0:12:06.327 At any moment, we would want to go back in 0:12:06.367 --> 0:12:10.287 time because time is the most finite resource. So acknowledging 0:12:10.327 --> 0:12:11.847 that whatever moment you're in is one you're going to 0:12:11.887 --> 0:12:13.047 feel nostalgic for later. 0:12:13.527 --> 0:12:15.087 It's probably a healthy thing to do. 0:12:15.207 --> 0:12:18.167 I just don't think that's true, because I don't think 0:12:18.207 --> 0:12:20.167 you do feel nostalgic for every moment you're in. I 0:12:20.167 --> 0:12:24.327 think we're kind of mixing up two different things. One 0:12:24.367 --> 0:12:27.287 is about the person who says that to you. It's 0:12:27.287 --> 0:12:30.327 not about you, it's about them, and it's about them 0:12:30.367 --> 0:12:33.887 feeling nostalgic. This is one thing I have with gratitude 0:12:34.007 --> 0:12:37.567 that can be challenging, because if we spent our whole 0:12:37.687 --> 0:12:41.607 lives aware that the clock is ticking, that we're going 0:12:41.647 --> 0:12:43.847 to die, that our kids will grow up and leave us, 0:12:44.207 --> 0:12:47.247 that our parents will die, that our friends will die, 0:12:47.447 --> 0:12:50.207 that life is fun, we'd be in a fetal position. 0:12:51.007 --> 0:12:54.687 And in the same way, you can't spend every day going, God, 0:12:54.727 --> 0:12:58.207 I'm lucky to have this partner, this roof over my head, 0:12:58.567 --> 0:13:02.407 these arms and legs that work, these beautiful child one 0:13:02.487 --> 0:13:05.727 day like, we have to just pay our bills and 0:13:05.767 --> 0:13:08.367 go to work and get shit done, and this is why. 0:13:08.407 --> 0:13:10.727 So we can't. There are some things that you can 0:13:10.887 --> 0:13:14.847 only appreciate in hindsight. 0:13:14.927 --> 0:13:17.407 We've talked about seasons on this podcast before, right, which 0:13:17.447 --> 0:13:19.887 is the idea that you're in a season and that 0:13:20.047 --> 0:13:23.007 season will change. So for people who are currently deep 0:13:23.127 --> 0:13:25.567 in grief, or maybe you're in a period where you've 0:13:25.647 --> 0:13:26.327 leaned out of. 0:13:26.287 --> 0:13:28.407 Work and you're not actually loving yourself. 0:13:28.167 --> 0:13:30.727 It tells you to savor that though people tell you 0:13:30.767 --> 0:13:34.887 to savor the things that they miss, and people tell 0:13:34.927 --> 0:13:39.167 you it's just a season to help you cope with 0:13:39.247 --> 0:13:41.447 a really bad touch in your life. 0:13:41.447 --> 0:13:43.607 I'm also conscious and this is what I think. This 0:13:43.647 --> 0:13:46.367 is a reaction to. We can't live life through the 0:13:46.407 --> 0:13:49.647 prism of this too shall pass in every season because 0:13:49.647 --> 0:13:52.607 I see us doing this too. We go I'm pregnant, 0:13:53.127 --> 0:13:56.447 this will pass, I have little kids, this will pass, school, 0:13:56.807 --> 0:13:58.847 this will part, Like what are we waiting for? 0:13:58.967 --> 0:13:59.727 I agree with you. 0:13:59.807 --> 0:14:02.647 Like the thing that I found upsetting when Eliza said 0:14:02.687 --> 0:14:05.687 to us, I hate that this is a season thing 0:14:06.407 --> 0:14:10.127 because she said it makes me feel dismissed. And when 0:14:10.167 --> 0:14:12.367 I say that to somebody this is a season, that 0:14:12.487 --> 0:14:14.647 is the last thing I mean, I do not mean 0:14:14.647 --> 0:14:17.407 to dismiss them, Like, to be really honest, When I 0:14:17.487 --> 0:14:20.207 think back to that season that we're talking about, the 0:14:20.247 --> 0:14:25.407 early kid season, the having little kids and massive daycare bills, 0:14:25.447 --> 0:14:27.927 and rushing, rushing, rushing every day, and having no family 0:14:27.967 --> 0:14:32.407 support and all that stuff. I cannot believe we survived it, right, 0:14:33.447 --> 0:14:35.967 But that doesn't mean there weren't a few moments in 0:14:36.007 --> 0:14:38.927 there of glory, and that when I get hijacked by 0:14:39.127 --> 0:14:41.487 you know, Facebook memories or my phone memories of the 0:14:41.487 --> 0:14:45.327 little kids in that time, my heart doesn't tweak with like, oh, 0:14:45.447 --> 0:14:48.607 every moment is good and bad. But the thing about 0:14:48.607 --> 0:14:51.927 the advice about seasons is you can only see that 0:14:52.047 --> 0:14:54.567 from a distance, you know, like you can only see 0:14:54.567 --> 0:14:56.367 that that was just a time of life when you're 0:14:56.407 --> 0:14:58.607 past it. And the thing about aging and wisdom, and 0:14:59.087 --> 0:15:01.287 I found that really interesting too in the Hamish Blake 0:15:01.287 --> 0:15:03.567 Assembly thing that Richard Brampton advice. Because I don't think 0:15:03.567 --> 0:15:05.527 it's true for everybody. I don't know that I would 0:15:05.607 --> 0:15:07.487 give everything to go back to being twenty two. I 0:15:07.487 --> 0:15:09.927 don't think I would. I thought it's interesting that men 0:15:10.007 --> 0:15:13.407 think that more. However, there's no question that as I 0:15:13.447 --> 0:15:15.807 get older, if I allow myself to think about it, 0:15:15.847 --> 0:15:17.727 I get very panicky about time running out. 0:15:18.287 --> 0:15:19.447 But the thing is is. 0:15:19.367 --> 0:15:22.407 That the thing about aging is we do get more 0:15:22.447 --> 0:15:25.687 wisdom because I do know what it was like to be, 0:15:26.367 --> 0:15:28.287 you know, young and have a young family and all 0:15:28.327 --> 0:15:31.327 those things, but you don't know what it's like to 0:15:31.447 --> 0:15:33.727 be on the other side of that. So, you know, 0:15:33.847 --> 0:15:36.447 denying that people who've been through things have wisdom about 0:15:36.447 --> 0:15:39.287 it because it makes you feel bad is just silly. 0:15:39.407 --> 0:15:41.967 So do you think that savoring is something that you 0:15:42.087 --> 0:15:44.407 inevitably get better at as you get. 0:15:44.527 --> 0:15:45.927 I have got better at it as I go. 0:15:46.167 --> 0:15:48.887 I reckon that I now know how to savor, and 0:15:48.927 --> 0:15:51.727 I reckon I've only just really figured it out. So 0:15:52.287 --> 0:15:54.207 to me, what savoring is about? And you've said this 0:15:54.207 --> 0:15:56.567 to me before me and I think it's really true. 0:15:56.727 --> 0:15:58.807 You know how people say, but are you happy? You know, 0:15:58.847 --> 0:16:02.367 we have a podcast called that Happiness isn't a state, 0:16:02.607 --> 0:16:06.607 like a solid, constant state. What you get better at, 0:16:06.767 --> 0:16:09.887 in my experience as you get older is reckonizing the 0:16:10.007 --> 0:16:12.407 moments of it. So, like, you know, my life, like 0:16:12.447 --> 0:16:15.447 everybody listening to this, life is complicated and busy and difficult, 0:16:15.447 --> 0:16:17.687 and sometimes it's really stressful and sometimes it's not. What 0:16:17.807 --> 0:16:20.807 I'm better at now is on those rare occasions when 0:16:20.807 --> 0:16:22.447 I might be sitting around the table with my kids 0:16:22.487 --> 0:16:25.207 and nobody's fighting and everybody's eating and someone's getting along, 0:16:25.247 --> 0:16:28.247 and maybe someone's telling me a story about like almost 0:16:28.327 --> 0:16:32.447 screenshotting that moment in my mind, like savoring it while 0:16:32.447 --> 0:16:34.847 it's there, but not thinking, oh, this is how life 0:16:34.887 --> 0:16:38.447 is now, because that's not true. I'm better at savoring 0:16:39.127 --> 0:16:41.847 moments of happiness and going in this moment right now, 0:16:42.167 --> 0:16:46.087 this is fucking pretty perfect. In another hour, it'd probably 0:16:46.247 --> 0:16:48.247 all be different again, you know. And I think that 0:16:48.607 --> 0:16:51.447 to me, that's what savoring means, and it is the 0:16:51.527 --> 0:16:53.927 key to happiness in a way, because otherwise you're just 0:16:54.007 --> 0:16:58.807 constantly striving for something that's like a constant plane. 0:16:58.647 --> 0:17:01.647 Yeah, or you're living only in the past or the future. 0:17:01.767 --> 0:17:04.727 Right Because I'm a very nostalgic person, and I look 0:17:04.807 --> 0:17:08.327 back and think, I don't know, I miss things that 0:17:08.407 --> 0:17:10.967 I'm sentimental about, things that have passed, and I feel 0:17:10.967 --> 0:17:15.327 as though time is speeding up. But I was reading 0:17:15.367 --> 0:17:18.807 about micro joys and how it is like I have 0:17:19.007 --> 0:17:22.367 never enjoyed my morning coffee more. 0:17:22.727 --> 0:17:23.407 I feel as. 0:17:23.247 --> 0:17:26.407 Though even that moment I go, I love having a 0:17:26.447 --> 0:17:28.367 coffee at the night. I like how it tastes, I 0:17:28.447 --> 0:17:31.807 like the smell, I like the experience. Maybe that's the 0:17:31.927 --> 0:17:35.487 highest iile' have all day, and that doesn't make me sad. Maya, 0:17:35.567 --> 0:17:38.727 are you nostalgic? You don't strike me as very nostalgic. 0:17:39.687 --> 0:17:42.087 You wrote one of the most famous pieces that's ever 0:17:42.127 --> 0:17:45.127 been published on the internet about the nostalgia of watching 0:17:45.207 --> 0:17:46.047 your kids grow up. 0:17:46.247 --> 0:17:47.687 You did that beautiful piece. 0:17:47.727 --> 0:17:49.927 You're every time I talk about it, I feel like 0:17:50.007 --> 0:17:50.647 I get tiery. 0:17:50.847 --> 0:17:52.207 Maybe you are nostalgia he is. 0:17:53.687 --> 0:17:55.807 You know what I wrote. I think in that piece 0:17:56.367 --> 0:17:58.247 is that there's a lot of emphasis on first. When 0:17:58.247 --> 0:18:00.847 you've got little kids, you want to move forward. You're 0:18:00.887 --> 0:18:03.647 excited to get to that next stage, and also you 0:18:03.687 --> 0:18:07.167 want it to get easier. You know, first two, first night, 0:18:07.207 --> 0:18:09.567 sleeping in a big bed, first steps, first, all of 0:18:09.567 --> 0:18:13.207 those things. But what you don't see is the last. 0:18:13.807 --> 0:18:17.087 What you only see in the review mirror is the last. 0:18:17.847 --> 0:18:21.487 And I find that the experience of being a grandmother 0:18:21.727 --> 0:18:29.567 is incredibly beautiful but emotional because I see you guys 0:18:29.647 --> 0:18:33.087 experiencing all of those firsts, and to see your child 0:18:33.207 --> 0:18:39.367 experiencing those firsts really makes you remember what it was 0:18:39.487 --> 0:18:43.367 like when they used to faultless sleep in your arms, 0:18:43.567 --> 0:18:45.927 or you know, when they used to reach for your hand, 0:18:46.647 --> 0:18:49.687 in the playground. But the good part of it is 0:18:49.727 --> 0:18:52.727 that you can savor your grandchildren in a way that 0:18:52.767 --> 0:18:55.447 you can't save your children. And that's been the most 0:18:55.487 --> 0:19:00.247 beautiful surprise about it, because when people are saying save 0:19:00.367 --> 0:19:03.367 the moment, save the moment with your children, it's like, yeah, 0:19:03.407 --> 0:19:05.527 but I've got to return an email, and I've got 0:19:05.527 --> 0:19:08.367 to make a mammogram appointment, and I've got to buy 0:19:08.407 --> 0:19:10.327 new shoes for the thing and take the dog to 0:19:10.367 --> 0:19:12.607 the vet. And it's like, I know, my child's being 0:19:12.647 --> 0:19:15.007 really cute in this moment, but I can't really sit 0:19:15.047 --> 0:19:18.287 there and get all gushy. And also, because there's so 0:19:18.367 --> 0:19:20.247 many of those moments all day, every day, and if 0:19:20.287 --> 0:19:22.927 you just stood there and gazed at your child or 0:19:22.967 --> 0:19:26.567 your partner or your animal, you wouldn't get anything done. 0:19:26.607 --> 0:19:30.127 But then when you're a grandparent, and I imagine it's 0:19:30.127 --> 0:19:33.887 also like this, being an aunt as well, or maybe 0:19:33.927 --> 0:19:37.407 a godmother is because you have such finite time with 0:19:37.447 --> 0:19:40.167 the child, you don't have to do all that stuff, 0:19:40.607 --> 0:19:43.287