1 00:00:11,445 --> 00:00:14,205 Speaker 1: You're listening to a Muma Mia podcast. 2 00:00:14,805 --> 00:00:18,285 Speaker 2: Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of the land and 3 00:00:18,325 --> 00:00:20,925 Speaker 2: waters that this podcast is recorded. 4 00:00:20,445 --> 00:00:31,285 Speaker 3: On Hello and welcome to our limited series Parenting Out Loud. 5 00:00:31,485 --> 00:00:34,965 Speaker 3: I am Jessie Stevens. I am joined by Amelia Lester 6 00:00:35,085 --> 00:00:39,485 Speaker 3: King Hello, and Mamma MIA's deputy editor, Stacy Hicks. 7 00:00:39,485 --> 00:00:39,765 Speaker 1: Hello. 8 00:00:40,045 --> 00:00:42,085 Speaker 3: We're here to talk about some of the stories that 9 00:00:42,125 --> 00:00:44,965 Speaker 3: dominated the week, because if parents are thinking about it, 10 00:00:45,125 --> 00:00:48,205 Speaker 3: we are talking about it. On today's show. Do you 11 00:00:48,285 --> 00:00:51,565 Speaker 3: have a DFK that stands for a deeply feeling kid? 12 00:00:51,845 --> 00:00:54,165 Speaker 3: And Doctor Becky knows how to spot one? But is 13 00:00:54,205 --> 00:00:56,965 Speaker 3: there really any such thing? And the stunning decline of 14 00:00:57,005 --> 00:00:59,845 Speaker 3: the preference to have boys? Apparently girls are very much 15 00:00:59,845 --> 00:01:03,925 Speaker 3: on trend. Why plus are you and trampoline denial? We 16 00:01:04,045 --> 00:01:06,925 Speaker 3: read the most shocking article about trampolines and are desperate 17 00:01:07,205 --> 00:01:07,925 Speaker 3: to debrief. 18 00:01:08,365 --> 00:01:10,685 Speaker 2: But first, in case you missed it, one of the 19 00:01:10,725 --> 00:01:12,884 Speaker 2: biggest stories on Mama Mia this week was about a 20 00:01:12,925 --> 00:01:15,325 Speaker 2: woman who abandoned her family to live on her own 21 00:01:15,645 --> 00:01:16,444 Speaker 2: and now we're all. 22 00:01:16,324 --> 00:01:17,285 Speaker 1: A little bit jealous. 23 00:01:17,884 --> 00:01:20,565 Speaker 2: In an interview with Katie Powers, author and mother of 24 00:01:20,565 --> 00:01:24,205 Speaker 2: two Monique Ben told her spoke very candidly about the 25 00:01:24,244 --> 00:01:26,685 Speaker 2: moment she was staying at her family's home in North 26 00:01:26,725 --> 00:01:29,925 Speaker 2: Queensland and just decided to never go back to her 27 00:01:29,964 --> 00:01:31,205 Speaker 2: life in New South Wales. 28 00:01:31,405 --> 00:01:33,845 Speaker 3: I feel like a very relevant detail here was the 29 00:01:33,884 --> 00:01:36,005 Speaker 3: age of her children. That's what I scrolled to be, 30 00:01:36,084 --> 00:01:38,365 Speaker 3: like how old are we're talking to? And four are 31 00:01:38,405 --> 00:01:39,005 Speaker 3: we talking? 32 00:01:39,405 --> 00:01:44,525 Speaker 2: When can I leave? She had two teenage sons. But 33 00:01:44,845 --> 00:01:47,285 Speaker 2: she said days turned into weeks and she just sent 34 00:01:47,365 --> 00:01:50,365 Speaker 2: her husband an email and said, that's it. I'm done 35 00:01:50,365 --> 00:01:52,565 Speaker 2: with carrying the mental load. I want to live on 36 00:01:52,565 --> 00:01:55,124 Speaker 2: my own. I'm not divorcing you. I just don't want 37 00:01:55,125 --> 00:01:56,764 Speaker 2: to live in the same house as you anymore. 38 00:01:57,605 --> 00:01:59,965 Speaker 4: See I thought when I first read this and it 39 00:02:00,045 --> 00:02:04,365 Speaker 4: described the suns as growing, I sort of thought, this 40 00:02:04,445 --> 00:02:08,965 Speaker 4: is a semantics exercise. If she's leaving home, specifically leaving 41 00:02:08,965 --> 00:02:11,405 Speaker 4: her husband and her children and are largely looking out 42 00:02:11,405 --> 00:02:14,285 Speaker 4: to themselves, it's up to her whether or not she 43 00:02:14,365 --> 00:02:16,805 Speaker 4: calls it divorce. But it feels a little bit like 44 00:02:16,885 --> 00:02:18,445 Speaker 4: she's separating from her husband. 45 00:02:18,605 --> 00:02:19,965 Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's what she said. 46 00:02:19,965 --> 00:02:22,925 Speaker 2: She said that he was initially surprised and kind of 47 00:02:22,925 --> 00:02:25,565 Speaker 2: making sure she hadn't gone mad and had a breakdown 48 00:02:25,645 --> 00:02:28,165 Speaker 2: or something more serious had happened, but that he actually 49 00:02:28,165 --> 00:02:30,205 Speaker 2: came around to it and supported her and was like, 50 00:02:30,245 --> 00:02:30,765 Speaker 2: that's okay. 51 00:02:30,845 --> 00:02:32,325 Speaker 1: Well they visit each. 52 00:02:32,125 --> 00:02:34,685 Speaker 2: Other now regularly, so a couple of times a year 53 00:02:34,725 --> 00:02:36,965 Speaker 2: they'll go and see the other one and they just 54 00:02:37,005 --> 00:02:39,645 Speaker 2: say the dynamic works. But she acknowledges, She said, I 55 00:02:39,685 --> 00:02:42,405 Speaker 2: know that this could not work for all people, mostly 56 00:02:42,445 --> 00:02:43,925 Speaker 2: because most people don't have two. 57 00:02:43,725 --> 00:02:47,605 Speaker 1: Houses to go between. We couldn't get very far. Which 58 00:02:47,645 --> 00:02:48,245 Speaker 1: chose to line you. 59 00:02:48,205 --> 00:02:49,125 Speaker 3: Didn't have another bedroom. 60 00:02:49,245 --> 00:02:53,205 Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, exactly, So she's doing this from a very 61 00:02:53,245 --> 00:02:56,525 Speaker 2: privileged position. But yeah, she said. People do say is 62 00:02:56,565 --> 00:02:58,764 Speaker 2: there adultery involved? Is there some reason? And she said, 63 00:02:58,805 --> 00:03:01,885 Speaker 2: I actually love him so much more now than when 64 00:03:01,925 --> 00:03:04,045 Speaker 2: we were living under the one roof, So that's why 65 00:03:04,085 --> 00:03:04,725 Speaker 2: they do it. 66 00:03:04,725 --> 00:03:08,885 Speaker 3: It's the most taboo thing a woman can do anytime. 67 00:03:09,005 --> 00:03:11,405 Speaker 3: I've read a few books recently have this as a theme, 68 00:03:11,525 --> 00:03:14,685 Speaker 3: and it's like, when you're confronted with that, readers get 69 00:03:14,765 --> 00:03:19,925 Speaker 3: really triggered and just like the thought. I mean, when 70 00:03:19,925 --> 00:03:22,085 Speaker 3: a man does it, we're horrified, But when a mother 71 00:03:22,885 --> 00:03:26,205 Speaker 3: leaves her children or her husband, that's scene as particularly 72 00:03:26,325 --> 00:03:29,645 Speaker 3: kind of I don't know, subverting the maternal nature of 73 00:03:30,485 --> 00:03:34,205 Speaker 3: her role. But I think the interesting question is like 74 00:03:34,685 --> 00:03:37,525 Speaker 3: what leads to that, and also the amount of people 75 00:03:37,525 --> 00:03:40,885 Speaker 3: that clicked on it is kind of going there's some 76 00:03:41,045 --> 00:03:45,005 Speaker 3: fascination with this decision. And clearly it was years upon 77 00:03:45,125 --> 00:03:47,565 Speaker 3: years of resentment of taking on the mental load to 78 00:03:47,605 --> 00:03:52,845 Speaker 3: such a point that it just overflows and you. 79 00:03:51,325 --> 00:03:53,205 Speaker 2: Just can't do it anymore. Yeah, she said, it just 80 00:03:53,205 --> 00:03:55,325 Speaker 2: got to the point where she couldn't not leave. She 81 00:03:55,365 --> 00:03:57,245 Speaker 2: said it felt like that was the only option and 82 00:03:57,285 --> 00:03:59,445 Speaker 2: that she had to be prepared for whatever his reaction 83 00:03:59,645 --> 00:04:02,525 Speaker 2: was to that. But luckily he was okay with it, 84 00:04:02,565 --> 00:04:04,405 Speaker 2: so maybe he was feeling the same way. 85 00:04:06,045 --> 00:04:09,605 Speaker 3: Do you have a deeply feeling kid? Are you a 86 00:04:09,645 --> 00:04:15,765 Speaker 3: deeply feeling I am doctor. Doctor Becky is a clinical 87 00:04:15,805 --> 00:04:19,045 Speaker 3: psychologist and an icon for millennial parents, and she published 88 00:04:19,045 --> 00:04:21,964 Speaker 3: a video to her three point three million followers recently 89 00:04:22,045 --> 00:04:23,085 Speaker 3: and here is what she said. 90 00:04:23,205 --> 00:04:24,844 Speaker 5: Right now, raise your hand. If you were told that 91 00:04:24,885 --> 00:04:27,405 Speaker 5: you were dramatic when you were a kid, raise your hand. 92 00:04:27,405 --> 00:04:28,885 Speaker 5: If you were told you're making a big deal out 93 00:04:28,885 --> 00:04:30,685 Speaker 5: of nothing, raise your hand. If you were told things 94 00:04:30,685 --> 00:04:32,685 Speaker 5: like you're ruining this for the family, I have news 95 00:04:32,685 --> 00:04:34,485 Speaker 5: for you. I have a feeling you are a deeply 96 00:04:34,485 --> 00:04:37,205 Speaker 5: feeling kid. I have a feeling you might have a 97 00:04:37,245 --> 00:04:40,645 Speaker 5: deeply feeling kid. Deeply feeling kids are more porous to 98 00:04:40,725 --> 00:04:44,685 Speaker 5: the world. They truly do feel things more intensely. More 99 00:04:44,805 --> 00:04:48,565 Speaker 5: comes in and more comes out, which yes, means very 100 00:04:48,605 --> 00:04:53,964 Speaker 5: intense tantrums and escalations. Deeply feeling kids sometimes experience their 101 00:04:53,965 --> 00:04:56,885 Speaker 5: feelings as threats. It's like they're being attacked. 102 00:04:56,965 --> 00:04:59,685 Speaker 3: I need initial reactions. What do you think? Do you 103 00:04:59,685 --> 00:05:01,525 Speaker 3: put much stock in the deeply feeling kid? 104 00:05:01,885 --> 00:05:04,045 Speaker 1: Am I allowed to say that I hate this? 105 00:05:04,645 --> 00:05:06,565 Speaker 3: Tell me why you hate it? 106 00:05:06,605 --> 00:05:10,325 Speaker 4: Isn't Doctor Becket just reminding us all of our subjectivity 107 00:05:10,445 --> 00:05:13,605 Speaker 4: as humans, that we all feel things, whether or not 108 00:05:13,645 --> 00:05:14,964 Speaker 4: we show it to the world or not. 109 00:05:15,605 --> 00:05:15,845 Speaker 1: Look. 110 00:05:15,885 --> 00:05:19,525 Speaker 4: I think doctor Becky's success boils down to the fact 111 00:05:19,565 --> 00:05:23,285 Speaker 4: that she has identified the fundamental truth that we need 112 00:05:23,325 --> 00:05:25,925 Speaker 4: to treat our kids like humans. And Okay, sometimes I 113 00:05:25,965 --> 00:05:26,965 Speaker 4: need a reminder of that. 114 00:05:26,965 --> 00:05:29,165 Speaker 3: Well, will co sign yes? 115 00:05:29,925 --> 00:05:33,085 Speaker 4: When I scream at my child, put your socks on, 116 00:05:33,165 --> 00:05:34,485 Speaker 4: go to the toilet and brush your teeth. 117 00:05:34,525 --> 00:05:37,645 Speaker 1: Would I say that to my partner? No? I probably wouldn't. 118 00:05:37,925 --> 00:05:40,005 Speaker 3: She will putty socks on a brush of taker. 119 00:05:41,405 --> 00:05:45,925 Speaker 4: That's true, but that's I think why she's so loved, 120 00:05:46,045 --> 00:05:48,005 Speaker 4: and look, I don't want to I don't want to 121 00:05:48,085 --> 00:05:50,925 Speaker 4: yuck anyone's yum. I know many people who say that 122 00:05:51,005 --> 00:05:54,565 Speaker 4: doctor Becky has really helped them break generational cycles of trauma. 123 00:05:55,245 --> 00:05:58,045 Speaker 4: And I really like how that she emphasizes you need 124 00:05:58,085 --> 00:06:00,724 Speaker 4: to handle your own feelings before dealing with your childs, 125 00:06:00,765 --> 00:06:03,325 Speaker 4: and that includes figuring out if you yourself are a DFK. 126 00:06:04,045 --> 00:06:07,724 Speaker 4: But ultimately, this clip just irritates me because she is 127 00:06:07,765 --> 00:06:11,605 Speaker 4: selling your product, and she is trying to come up 128 00:06:11,645 --> 00:06:14,964 Speaker 4: with a label that could conceivably be applied to just 129 00:06:15,165 --> 00:06:16,245 Speaker 4: about everyone. 130 00:06:16,805 --> 00:06:17,405 Speaker 1: Am I wrong? 131 00:06:17,485 --> 00:06:17,565 Speaker 4: That? 132 00:06:17,685 --> 00:06:21,045 Speaker 3: Okay, That's how I feel because when it's like highly 133 00:06:21,125 --> 00:06:24,165 Speaker 3: sensitive person or you'll often hear someone say I just 134 00:06:24,285 --> 00:06:27,245 Speaker 3: experience the world a little more deeply than I'm an 135 00:06:27,245 --> 00:06:29,885 Speaker 3: am you know what I am? I'm an overthinker. And 136 00:06:29,925 --> 00:06:33,925 Speaker 3: it's like the no, no. You just have closer proximity 137 00:06:33,925 --> 00:06:36,165 Speaker 3: to your thoughts and your feelings than anyone else's, so 138 00:06:36,245 --> 00:06:38,925 Speaker 3: we imagine that our own inner worlds are far more 139 00:06:38,965 --> 00:06:41,885 Speaker 3: complicated than anyone else's because I can't access yours. I'm 140 00:06:41,885 --> 00:06:44,045 Speaker 3: like Amelia. It's pretty simple. She's just here with a 141 00:06:44,085 --> 00:06:47,885 Speaker 3: smile on her face. Me very very complicated, Stacy, Do 142 00:06:47,925 --> 00:06:50,365 Speaker 3: you have any I agree. 143 00:06:50,525 --> 00:06:54,965 Speaker 2: I felt very seen and attacked in equal measure because 144 00:06:55,045 --> 00:06:57,925 Speaker 2: I am definitely a DFK. I am someone who will 145 00:06:57,925 --> 00:07:00,685 Speaker 2: cry when they see someone alone in a restaurant, despite 146 00:07:00,685 --> 00:07:03,205 Speaker 2: the fact that person is probably having a great time 147 00:07:03,325 --> 00:07:06,245 Speaker 2: alone in the restaurant. I project those feelings onto them. 148 00:07:06,285 --> 00:07:08,645 Speaker 2: I'm that person. But you have to say, pull yourself together. 149 00:07:08,685 --> 00:07:11,125 Speaker 2: I should not need to be upset by is. So 150 00:07:11,445 --> 00:07:14,285 Speaker 2: I do think that my emotions are probably a bit 151 00:07:14,325 --> 00:07:16,765 Speaker 2: closer to the surface, I would say, than other people's, 152 00:07:16,925 --> 00:07:19,885 Speaker 2: But that doesn't mean that I feel more deeply than 153 00:07:19,885 --> 00:07:23,525 Speaker 2: another person. But I do feel conflicted because I have 154 00:07:23,645 --> 00:07:26,565 Speaker 2: to admit when I saw doctor Becky's videos and I 155 00:07:26,645 --> 00:07:29,645 Speaker 2: heard this label, it did kind of give me some 156 00:07:29,805 --> 00:07:32,165 Speaker 2: level of comfort to put a name to something I 157 00:07:32,205 --> 00:07:35,405 Speaker 2: feel like i'm a little bit different to other people with, 158 00:07:35,845 --> 00:07:39,165 Speaker 2: and also a term for something that I think my 159 00:07:39,285 --> 00:07:42,205 Speaker 2: child experiences. On the other hand, I don't want to 160 00:07:42,245 --> 00:07:45,125 Speaker 2: pigeonhole her as this particular type of person, and I 161 00:07:45,125 --> 00:07:47,885 Speaker 2: think that's where the danger comes with all the labels. 162 00:07:48,005 --> 00:07:51,565 Speaker 3: If it lends itself to treating our child with like 163 00:07:51,845 --> 00:07:55,005 Speaker 3: more empathy. And I mean, I've got a two year old. 164 00:07:55,045 --> 00:07:58,765 Speaker 3: Where you go, I don't know many even tempered two 165 00:07:58,805 --> 00:08:00,725 Speaker 3: year olds who are really good with their feelings and 166 00:08:00,765 --> 00:08:03,885 Speaker 3: have really quite muted feelings about yogurt. She has quite 167 00:08:03,885 --> 00:08:07,285 Speaker 3: strong feelings about yogurt. But in saying that, what I 168 00:08:07,405 --> 00:08:10,565 Speaker 3: worry about is the labeling. And I'm not to talking 169 00:08:10,565 --> 00:08:14,925 Speaker 3: about diagnoses necessarily, but even I look at my daughter 170 00:08:15,485 --> 00:08:18,405 Speaker 3: and the moment I think she's shy, she does something 171 00:08:18,845 --> 00:08:21,845 Speaker 3: that suggests maybe she's not, Or the moment I think 172 00:08:21,845 --> 00:08:25,605 Speaker 3: she's really gentle, that's when she'll bite. You know, Like, kids, 173 00:08:25,805 --> 00:08:28,725 Speaker 3: by their nature, are in a process of evolution, and 174 00:08:28,765 --> 00:08:33,125 Speaker 3: I worry that by putting any kind of expectation or 175 00:08:33,204 --> 00:08:36,204 Speaker 3: label on them, it becomes self fulfilling. 176 00:08:36,605 --> 00:08:38,925 Speaker 4: Yes, I worry about the impact on kids, and I 177 00:08:39,005 --> 00:08:42,125 Speaker 4: worry about the impact on parents as well. So, okay, 178 00:08:42,165 --> 00:08:45,165 Speaker 4: you've established that your kid is deeply feeling. How does 179 00:08:45,205 --> 00:08:47,525 Speaker 4: that flow into how you treat them? I think what 180 00:08:48,005 --> 00:08:50,485 Speaker 4: it leads to is this idea that you have to 181 00:08:50,525 --> 00:08:54,405 Speaker 4: prioritize their feelings above your own or even above your 182 00:08:54,405 --> 00:08:58,085 Speaker 4: own schedule. So I found this CBC article that nicely 183 00:08:58,125 --> 00:09:00,685 Speaker 4: summarized the back clash to doctor Becky and sort of 184 00:09:00,685 --> 00:09:03,365 Speaker 4: gets it where I'm at on this, which is gentle 185 00:09:03,405 --> 00:09:06,565 Speaker 4: parenting too rough on parents. Now, I should say that 186 00:09:06,605 --> 00:09:09,965 Speaker 4: doctor Becky is probably doesn't identify as a gentle parenting acolyte, 187 00:09:10,045 --> 00:09:14,085 Speaker 4: but she's definitely adjacent to it. And basically the idea 188 00:09:14,245 --> 00:09:18,325 Speaker 4: is that in in stressing the importance of acknowledging children's 189 00:09:18,365 --> 00:09:22,325 Speaker 4: feelings sometimes above all else, it makes it really hard 190 00:09:22,325 --> 00:09:25,565 Speaker 4: for parents. They constantly feel like they're falling behind. And 191 00:09:25,605 --> 00:09:27,925 Speaker 4: sometimes you do have to be the bad guy, and 192 00:09:27,965 --> 00:09:30,085 Speaker 4: sometimes you just don't have time with the feelings and 193 00:09:30,125 --> 00:09:31,605 Speaker 4: you just have to get out the door. And so 194 00:09:31,725 --> 00:09:34,365 Speaker 4: I worry about both the children's side of it and 195 00:09:34,445 --> 00:09:36,445 Speaker 4: the parents' side of it when we're labeling kids in 196 00:09:36,485 --> 00:09:39,045 Speaker 4: this way and giving your child the label of a 197 00:09:39,125 --> 00:09:43,204 Speaker 4: DFK doesn't stop that behavior from occurring. Like you can't 198 00:09:43,245 --> 00:09:45,205 Speaker 4: just be in the shops going just look away, she's 199 00:09:45,245 --> 00:09:47,485 Speaker 4: throwing products at you because she's a DFK. 200 00:09:48,005 --> 00:09:51,805 Speaker 2: It won't change what's going on. So having it is 201 00:09:51,845 --> 00:09:52,605 Speaker 2: not very useful. 202 00:09:52,725 --> 00:09:56,405 Speaker 4: Yeah, So what I wonder why do people respond to this? 203 00:09:56,485 --> 00:09:58,085 Speaker 1: Then? Why do you think this. 204 00:09:58,285 --> 00:10:02,045 Speaker 2: Videos thing too. Anytime on the site on Mamma Mia. 205 00:10:02,085 --> 00:10:04,485 Speaker 2: Anytime on Mamma Mia that we write about something that 206 00:10:04,605 --> 00:10:07,885 Speaker 2: is a term or a theory or gives a name 207 00:10:08,005 --> 00:10:11,645 Speaker 2: to something that's happening in the world, like people will 208 00:10:11,645 --> 00:10:13,804 Speaker 2: flock to that. And I think it's just about kind 209 00:10:13,885 --> 00:10:16,405 Speaker 2: of tying a neat little bow around something that they 210 00:10:16,525 --> 00:10:17,485 Speaker 2: may be grappling with. 211 00:10:17,845 --> 00:10:21,605 Speaker 3: Is it also confirming our sense that our child is unique, 212 00:10:21,765 --> 00:10:25,125 Speaker 3: which all our children are genuinely unique and are genuinely special, 213 00:10:25,605 --> 00:10:28,525 Speaker 3: But these titles suggest like there is something that you're 214 00:10:28,565 --> 00:10:33,245 Speaker 3: seeing in your kid that makes them different, because she's 215 00:10:33,245 --> 00:10:35,205 Speaker 3: not saying that all kids are DFK, she's saying that 216 00:10:35,245 --> 00:10:38,845 Speaker 3: only some are. And it also I think it then 217 00:10:38,965 --> 00:10:40,804 Speaker 3: makes us feel like, Okay, now that I have a 218 00:10:40,885 --> 00:10:43,885 Speaker 3: DFK doctor, Becky is going to teach me some strategies. 219 00:10:43,925 --> 00:10:45,285 Speaker 3: And I will give her a lot of credit in 220 00:10:45,325 --> 00:10:48,645 Speaker 3: this because she's really straightforward. And we've talked on this 221 00:10:48,685 --> 00:10:51,565 Speaker 3: show before about how for a lot of mums and dads, 222 00:10:51,605 --> 00:10:54,725 Speaker 3: they don't have a community that might teach them strategies, 223 00:10:54,925 --> 00:10:57,085 Speaker 3: Like I'm really close to my mum and she'll often 224 00:10:57,085 --> 00:10:59,205 Speaker 3: tell me something that will help with parenting, like I'm 225 00:10:59,205 --> 00:11:01,925 Speaker 3: doing this for the first time, and doctor Becky provides 226 00:11:01,965 --> 00:11:04,845 Speaker 3: that for people. She has something she talks about sturdy. 227 00:11:04,925 --> 00:11:05,525 Speaker 3: Have you heard this? 228 00:11:05,885 --> 00:11:06,325 Speaker 4: What that? 229 00:11:06,645 --> 00:11:08,805 Speaker 3: So she taught her big thing is like a parent 230 00:11:08,845 --> 00:11:14,245 Speaker 3: needs to be sturdy. I'm not super authoritarian, not entirely gentle, 231 00:11:14,725 --> 00:11:19,125 Speaker 3: but sturdy suggests you're something that a child can lean on. 232 00:11:19,165 --> 00:11:21,325 Speaker 3: You know your values, you know what the limitations are, 233 00:11:21,365 --> 00:11:24,365 Speaker 3: you know the rules, but you're also there's some flexibility 234 00:11:24,525 --> 00:11:26,645 Speaker 3: in that. And I quite like there are a lot 235 00:11:26,725 --> 00:11:28,564 Speaker 3: that pops up from doctor Becky and I'm like, yeah, 236 00:11:28,565 --> 00:11:30,925 Speaker 3: I like that, I'll use it. But at the same time, 237 00:11:31,805 --> 00:11:34,125 Speaker 3: you're right, she's selling a course, she's selling a book, 238 00:11:34,285 --> 00:11:35,484 Speaker 3: she's selling her expertise. 239 00:11:35,725 --> 00:11:39,805 Speaker 4: And I also think she's kind of pathologizing parenting itself. Like, 240 00:11:39,885 --> 00:11:43,885 Speaker 4: sometime around the point at which parenting became a verb, 241 00:11:44,645 --> 00:11:47,245 Speaker 4: we decided that to be a parent meant you had 242 00:11:47,285 --> 00:11:50,445 Speaker 4: to absorb all the evidence and all the latest studies 243 00:11:50,485 --> 00:11:52,724 Speaker 4: and all the greatest thinkers on parenting. 244 00:11:53,165 --> 00:11:54,965 Speaker 1: And I think part of that I have a theory. 245 00:11:55,045 --> 00:11:57,125 Speaker 4: I think part of the reason why doctor Becky and 246 00:11:57,165 --> 00:12:00,845 Speaker 4: others have such slavish devotion online is because it's a 247 00:12:00,845 --> 00:12:03,165 Speaker 4: bit of a pendulum swing response to the style of 248 00:12:03,205 --> 00:12:06,005 Speaker 4: parenting that a lot of millennials grew up with. So, 249 00:12:06,285 --> 00:12:09,645 Speaker 4: for instance, doctor Becky says you should never do chimeouts 250 00:12:09,685 --> 00:12:12,125 Speaker 4: because they shame the child, and this comes from her 251 00:12:12,205 --> 00:12:17,405 Speaker 4: grounding in modern psychotherapy. She's also a psychologist, so there's 252 00:12:17,445 --> 00:12:21,045 Speaker 4: clearly some evidence to back that. On the other hand, 253 00:12:21,205 --> 00:12:26,125 Speaker 4: pediatricians advocate for timeouts, some American pediatricians, according to the 254 00:12:26,125 --> 00:12:29,285 Speaker 4: American Academy of Pediatrics, because it has been shown to 255 00:12:29,325 --> 00:12:33,125 Speaker 4: be effective in rewiring kids' behavior. So different experts are 256 00:12:33,125 --> 00:12:35,765 Speaker 4: going to come up with different assessments for what the 257 00:12:35,805 --> 00:12:39,925 Speaker 4: best cognitive approaches are. It's clear why doctor Becky doesn't 258 00:12:39,965 --> 00:12:42,245 Speaker 4: like the timeouts. At the same time, it can be 259 00:12:42,285 --> 00:12:45,525 Speaker 4: a tool in the toolbox. And for millennial parents, I 260 00:12:45,565 --> 00:12:47,605 Speaker 4: think there's a sense of we want to do better 261 00:12:47,645 --> 00:12:50,805 Speaker 4: than our parents, We want to correct their perceived failings. 262 00:12:50,845 --> 00:12:53,684 Speaker 4: But the truth is no one can be a perfect parent. 263 00:12:55,205 --> 00:12:57,765 Speaker 2: Have you ever watched a gender reveal video where the 264 00:12:57,845 --> 00:13:01,165 Speaker 2: parents are clearly trying to hide their disappointment, Well, it 265 00:13:01,245 --> 00:13:03,205 Speaker 2: was probably because they found out they were having a 266 00:13:03,205 --> 00:13:06,005 Speaker 2: boy in a surprising turn of events. There is now 267 00:13:06,045 --> 00:13:08,965 Speaker 2: an increasing preference by parents to have little girls, when 268 00:13:09,005 --> 00:13:11,405 Speaker 2: it was once very much the opposite. An article in 269 00:13:11,445 --> 00:13:14,605 Speaker 2: The Economists this week showed this is a trend happening globally, 270 00:13:14,725 --> 00:13:17,925 Speaker 2: even in countries like China, where the now abolished one 271 00:13:18,005 --> 00:13:21,005 Speaker 2: child policy once meant that pregnancies resulting in girls were 272 00:13:21,085 --> 00:13:24,084 Speaker 2: routinely aborted in favor of boys who would carry on 273 00:13:24,125 --> 00:13:26,725 Speaker 2: the family line and look after parents in old age. 274 00:13:26,925 --> 00:13:30,084 Speaker 2: To put it into context, the article said, so globally, 275 00:13:30,285 --> 00:13:32,725 Speaker 2: among babies born in the year two thousand and one 276 00:13:32,805 --> 00:13:35,805 Speaker 2: point six million, girls were missing from the number you'd 277 00:13:35,845 --> 00:13:39,525 Speaker 2: expect given the natural sex ratio at birth. This year, 278 00:13:39,565 --> 00:13:42,205 Speaker 2: that number is likely to be only two hundred thousand, 279 00:13:42,245 --> 00:13:45,084 Speaker 2: which is still a lot, but it's falling. In America 280 00:13:45,125 --> 00:13:48,805 Speaker 2: and Scandinavia, families are now more likely to have another 281 00:13:48,885 --> 00:13:51,005 Speaker 2: child if their first child is a son in the 282 00:13:51,005 --> 00:13:53,685 Speaker 2: hopes of getting a girl, and seventy five percent of 283 00:13:53,765 --> 00:13:56,725 Speaker 2: Japanese couples who only want one child say they'd prefer 284 00:13:56,805 --> 00:13:59,925 Speaker 2: it be a daughter. They're also seeing it for adoptive parents. 285 00:13:59,925 --> 00:14:03,645 Speaker 2: Some agencies now charge higher fees for placing female children 286 00:14:03,685 --> 00:14:06,165 Speaker 2: as the demand is so much higher. I think there's 287 00:14:06,205 --> 00:14:09,045 Speaker 2: a few reasons for this gradual about turn. So I'd 288 00:14:09,085 --> 00:14:11,405 Speaker 2: love to know why you think there's a sudden surge 289 00:14:11,445 --> 00:14:12,165 Speaker 2: in girl power. 290 00:14:12,445 --> 00:14:16,285 Speaker 3: I reckon there's a few things right because historically boys 291 00:14:16,365 --> 00:14:21,365 Speaker 3: have offered families and economic advantage, right, and with gender 292 00:14:21,365 --> 00:14:23,725 Speaker 3: equality and getting women in the workplace, that's meant that 293 00:14:24,085 --> 00:14:26,925 Speaker 3: what boys offer in that way, girls can now offer. Right. 294 00:14:27,485 --> 00:14:30,645 Speaker 3: I think it's definitely an interesting point that the article 295 00:14:30,685 --> 00:14:34,805 Speaker 3: makes about people feeling as though a daughter will look 296 00:14:34,845 --> 00:14:38,645 Speaker 3: after them into old age. I've actually heard people say that, 297 00:14:39,605 --> 00:14:42,325 Speaker 3: But I'm gonna throw out a totally random theory that's 298 00:14:42,365 --> 00:14:45,165 Speaker 3: just mine. I wonder if there is more of a 299 00:14:45,205 --> 00:14:49,445 Speaker 3: focus on centering what the mother wants. 300 00:14:49,605 --> 00:14:49,845 Speaker 2: Right. 301 00:14:50,445 --> 00:14:53,485 Speaker 3: So we're talking about things like gender disappointment, which we've 302 00:14:53,485 --> 00:14:57,045 Speaker 3: never talked about before because of you know, just the 303 00:14:57,045 --> 00:14:59,005 Speaker 3: public conversation going on to TikTok and Instagram. 304 00:14:59,045 --> 00:15:01,885 Speaker 1: I do want to know anyone personally who's experienced Yes. 305 00:15:02,165 --> 00:15:06,805 Speaker 3: So, Kelly McCarran spoke really candidly about this after the 306 00:15:06,805 --> 00:15:08,925 Speaker 3: birth of her son, and I found it really refreshing. 307 00:15:08,925 --> 00:15:12,245 Speaker 3: I hadn't heard that term before. And you know, she 308 00:15:12,485 --> 00:15:14,325 Speaker 3: loves she's such a great mum. She loves her son 309 00:15:14,405 --> 00:15:17,325 Speaker 3: more than anything in the world. But her initial response was, Oh, 310 00:15:17,365 --> 00:15:19,805 Speaker 3: I didn't realize how much I wanted a girl, and 311 00:15:20,045 --> 00:15:23,085 Speaker 3: I think that by centering mother's voices, we're probably hearing 312 00:15:23,125 --> 00:15:26,205 Speaker 3: that more. The question is why would a mother want 313 00:15:26,765 --> 00:15:29,445 Speaker 3: a daughter, ever a son, And I wonder if it's 314 00:15:29,685 --> 00:15:31,325 Speaker 3: we feel like we know what we're doing because we 315 00:15:31,325 --> 00:15:35,445 Speaker 3: were a daughter, and also some deeply psychological sense of 316 00:15:36,085 --> 00:15:39,205 Speaker 3: wanting to reparent ourselves, like I have this thing I 317 00:15:39,285 --> 00:15:42,765 Speaker 3: wonder if I go, I want to re enter my 318 00:15:42,765 --> 00:15:44,765 Speaker 3: own childhood, and maybe I feel I can better do 319 00:15:44,845 --> 00:15:46,645 Speaker 3: that with a girl than a boy, which I don't 320 00:15:46,645 --> 00:15:49,485 Speaker 3: think is true, but it could just be what our 321 00:15:49,725 --> 00:15:52,245 Speaker 3: guts tell us. What do you think, Amelia Well? 322 00:15:52,245 --> 00:15:55,445 Speaker 4: Anecdotally, I will say that in the new South Welles 323 00:15:55,485 --> 00:15:59,965 Speaker 4: public school system which I currently am experiencing, girls are 324 00:16:00,085 --> 00:16:02,765 Speaker 4: very much the white whale. It seems there are just 325 00:16:02,805 --> 00:16:05,325 Speaker 4: not enough girls to go around to sprinkle the fairy 326 00:16:05,405 --> 00:16:09,365 Speaker 4: dust of good behavior across classes. In public primary schools, 327 00:16:10,045 --> 00:16:12,925 Speaker 4: they are better behaved. There are also fewer of them 328 00:16:12,925 --> 00:16:16,085 Speaker 4: than boys in public schools in my experience, and I 329 00:16:16,165 --> 00:16:18,885 Speaker 4: wonder if part of this is because I certainly know 330 00:16:19,005 --> 00:16:21,405 Speaker 4: women who have put their daughters in single sex education 331 00:16:21,565 --> 00:16:25,205 Speaker 4: from kindergarten, whereas I don't know anyone who's chosen to 332 00:16:25,245 --> 00:16:28,285 Speaker 4: do that with boys. Not to say it doesn't happen, 333 00:16:28,405 --> 00:16:31,165 Speaker 4: but it's because of that conventional wisdom that girls have 334 00:16:31,285 --> 00:16:34,485 Speaker 4: contagiously good behavior and that that will translate to boys 335 00:16:34,525 --> 00:16:37,645 Speaker 4: as well. So there is this sense now where to 336 00:16:37,725 --> 00:16:40,525 Speaker 4: have girls in your child's class, and the more girls 337 00:16:40,525 --> 00:16:42,965 Speaker 4: you have in your child's class, the more valuable because 338 00:16:43,005 --> 00:16:45,685 Speaker 4: the class is likely to be better run, less disrupted, 339 00:16:46,125 --> 00:16:49,005 Speaker 4: less loud. It all makes me a bit sad, to 340 00:16:49,005 --> 00:16:51,965 Speaker 4: be honest. I have a boy and then a girl. 341 00:16:52,125 --> 00:16:55,085 Speaker 4: And when this happened, I have a friend who is 342 00:16:55,125 --> 00:16:58,005 Speaker 4: French who said to me, ah leschois duro. 343 00:16:58,485 --> 00:17:00,485 Speaker 1: I said, what is that and she said, it's. 344 00:17:00,325 --> 00:17:04,045 Speaker 4: The choice of kings, because going back historically in France 345 00:17:04,165 --> 00:17:07,364 Speaker 4: and in other monarchies around the world, kings wanted a 346 00:17:07,365 --> 00:17:10,845 Speaker 4: boy first to secure the lineage in that very sexist 347 00:17:10,965 --> 00:17:14,165 Speaker 4: way of monarchy's everywhere, and then a girl because girls, 348 00:17:14,405 --> 00:17:17,125 Speaker 4: you know, they dress more nicely and the people love 349 00:17:17,205 --> 00:17:20,685 Speaker 4: looking at their clothes, and that's what royal families wanted. 350 00:17:21,205 --> 00:17:25,085 Speaker 4: And I guess it's understandable that as women are delaying childbirth, 351 00:17:25,245 --> 00:17:29,565 Speaker 4: and as people are having fewer kids, particularly in rich countries, 352 00:17:29,965 --> 00:17:32,845 Speaker 4: it's not surprising that they want the choice that is 353 00:17:32,885 --> 00:17:36,805 Speaker 4: considered easier, because we do consider girls to be easier. 354 00:17:36,805 --> 00:17:40,045 Speaker 4: For all those reasons. It still makes me sad, though, 355 00:17:40,085 --> 00:17:43,445 Speaker 4: and I wonder if part of it is that we 356 00:17:43,525 --> 00:17:45,645 Speaker 4: can see that the boys are not okay. They are 357 00:17:45,685 --> 00:17:49,605 Speaker 4: behind in school, they are behind in life. We see 358 00:17:49,645 --> 00:17:53,325 Speaker 4: TV shows and movies about in cell culture, it's the 359 00:17:53,365 --> 00:17:56,205 Speaker 4: men are not okay. And I feel like we're making 360 00:17:56,285 --> 00:17:59,725 Speaker 4: choices based on what we think boys and girls are 361 00:18:00,165 --> 00:18:02,405 Speaker 4: rather than what they are capable of or what they 362 00:18:02,445 --> 00:18:05,045 Speaker 4: could be, which, after all, isn't that the point of parenting? 363 00:18:05,484 --> 00:18:07,605 Speaker 3: I know, I thought that after adolescence. I thought, I 364 00:18:07,645 --> 00:18:09,245 Speaker 3: don't think a lot of people are watching that show 365 00:18:09,325 --> 00:18:11,645 Speaker 3: going I can't wait, and a teenage boy like it 366 00:18:11,645 --> 00:18:14,685 Speaker 3: feels terrifying in a lot of ways. How about you, Stacy, 367 00:18:14,725 --> 00:18:15,725 Speaker 3: what do you thinks behind it? 368 00:18:15,885 --> 00:18:16,085 Speaker 1: Yeah? 369 00:18:16,125 --> 00:18:18,965 Speaker 2: I think there's an assumed closeness between a daughter and 370 00:18:19,005 --> 00:18:21,725 Speaker 2: their mother, which is not necessarily the case. It's a 371 00:18:21,805 --> 00:18:25,045 Speaker 2: sweeping generalization, but I think for women, when you are 372 00:18:25,085 --> 00:18:27,284 Speaker 2: thinking about the fact that, especially if you're having children, 373 00:18:27,365 --> 00:18:30,005 Speaker 2: later that you may only have one child, or you're 374 00:18:30,045 --> 00:18:32,885 Speaker 2: making that decision that you're definitely only having one child. 375 00:18:33,085 --> 00:18:35,245 Speaker 2: That you go, well, I'm familiar with that, like I 376 00:18:35,365 --> 00:18:38,004 Speaker 2: know what to do there. I'll be the mother's side 377 00:18:38,045 --> 00:18:40,965 Speaker 2: for when the grandchildren come. I'll be the mother's side 378 00:18:41,005 --> 00:18:41,725 Speaker 2: for the wedding. 379 00:18:42,005 --> 00:18:44,324 Speaker 4: Like I feel like a mother and a daughter being close. 380 00:18:44,405 --> 00:18:46,205 Speaker 4: Everyone goes, oh, isn't that sweet? 381 00:18:46,205 --> 00:18:47,885 Speaker 2: A mother and a son are close, and it's a 382 00:18:47,925 --> 00:18:49,045 Speaker 2: Mormon baits and psychlos. 383 00:18:49,125 --> 00:18:51,085 Speaker 1: That's so true. That's so true. 384 00:18:51,085 --> 00:18:53,565 Speaker 2: It's seen as toxic somehow if a mother is super 385 00:18:53,565 --> 00:18:56,125 Speaker 2: close with their son. So I think I think maybe 386 00:18:56,125 --> 00:18:59,965 Speaker 2: that's part of it. An article this week rocked my world, 387 00:19:00,165 --> 00:19:03,925 Speaker 2: turn me upside down, potentially cause some bones to break. 388 00:19:04,005 --> 00:19:08,085 Speaker 2: Let me explain. It was called are You in Trampoline Denial? 389 00:19:08,605 --> 00:19:12,564 Speaker 2: And it was from the cut the author, Katie Arnold Ratliffe. 390 00:19:12,605 --> 00:19:16,165 Speaker 2: I have long heard rumors that trampolines are in fact, 391 00:19:16,285 --> 00:19:18,885 Speaker 2: incredibly dangerous. I am rolling my eyes as I say this. 392 00:19:19,365 --> 00:19:20,845 Speaker 2: For many years now. 393 00:19:20,725 --> 00:19:23,925 Speaker 4: The American Academy of Pediatrics has said that no trampoline 394 00:19:23,965 --> 00:19:26,725 Speaker 4: is safe for children under six, and that no trampoline 395 00:19:26,765 --> 00:19:30,044 Speaker 4: outside a gymnastics program is safe for children over six. 396 00:19:30,484 --> 00:19:32,365 Speaker 4: But again I had rolled my eyes at this, I 397 00:19:32,445 --> 00:19:35,564 Speaker 4: had silently judged those pediatricians as kill joys. And I 398 00:19:35,645 --> 00:19:38,605 Speaker 4: held my child's fifth birthday party at a trampoline park. 399 00:19:38,725 --> 00:19:40,965 Speaker 3: Did everyone come or were there some who protested? 400 00:19:41,285 --> 00:19:44,645 Speaker 4: No, everyone came because they did a thing about trampoline 401 00:19:44,685 --> 00:19:46,165 Speaker 4: parks and five year old boys. 402 00:19:46,565 --> 00:19:47,844 Speaker 1: Say what you will about boys. 403 00:19:48,045 --> 00:19:51,484 Speaker 4: They need to burn up some energy, and that's what 404 00:19:51,565 --> 00:19:54,645 Speaker 4: trampoline parks are for. However, I can no longer dismiss 405 00:19:54,645 --> 00:19:59,285 Speaker 4: the rumors because this piece had some absolutely horrifying statistics 406 00:19:59,285 --> 00:20:02,245 Speaker 4: in them. I'm going to share three. First statistic, an 407 00:20:02,365 --> 00:20:05,925 Speaker 4: estimated three hundred thousand trampoline injuries a year occur in 408 00:20:05,925 --> 00:20:06,805 Speaker 4: the United States. 409 00:20:07,365 --> 00:20:07,965 Speaker 3: That's so many. 410 00:20:08,005 --> 00:20:08,525 Speaker 1: Statistic. 411 00:20:08,565 --> 00:20:15,565 Speaker 4: Two of those involve head injuries, including concussions. Statistic three 412 00:20:15,805 --> 00:20:19,844 Speaker 4: eleven percent of injuries at trampoline parks are significant. And 413 00:20:19,885 --> 00:20:22,765 Speaker 4: you know when doctors use the term significant, they're actually 414 00:20:22,845 --> 00:20:25,244 Speaker 4: they actually mean significant, as opposed to when I use 415 00:20:25,285 --> 00:20:28,485 Speaker 4: the term significant when I can't decide what decision about 416 00:20:28,484 --> 00:20:31,125 Speaker 4: what to eat for lunch, So this is major. And 417 00:20:31,165 --> 00:20:33,365 Speaker 4: then also the waiver you sign, which I'm sure none 418 00:20:33,405 --> 00:20:35,365 Speaker 4: of us have read because it's a PDF, and it 419 00:20:35,405 --> 00:20:38,284 Speaker 4: goes on for many many pages. Turns out that waiver 420 00:20:38,365 --> 00:20:41,085 Speaker 4: basically signs the way your and your child's life should 421 00:20:41,125 --> 00:20:45,645 Speaker 4: anything terrible happen at the trampoline park. So where does 422 00:20:45,685 --> 00:20:47,685 Speaker 4: this leave this? And what am I meant to do 423 00:20:47,725 --> 00:20:50,645 Speaker 4: with my children on rainy winter days to stop them 424 00:20:50,685 --> 00:20:53,365 Speaker 4: from climbing all over my furniture? Are we all just 425 00:20:53,445 --> 00:20:54,004 Speaker 4: kill joys? 426 00:20:54,045 --> 00:20:54,205 Speaker 2: Now? 427 00:20:54,365 --> 00:20:56,205 Speaker 1: Give me a permission to believe this Jesse. 428 00:20:56,845 --> 00:21:01,325 Speaker 3: Look, I I think there's an element of kill joy 429 00:21:01,365 --> 00:21:04,205 Speaker 3: to it, because I went all right following this. Firstly, 430 00:21:04,245 --> 00:21:08,405 Speaker 3: this article was incredibly percusive. I read this and it 431 00:21:08,484 --> 00:21:13,125 Speaker 3: talked about the trampoline fracture, like the particular break double bounce, 432 00:21:13,285 --> 00:21:15,125 Speaker 3: the double bounce, and we. 433 00:21:15,085 --> 00:21:18,405 Speaker 2: Explain the double bounce, so the you goes no, you 434 00:21:18,445 --> 00:21:22,125 Speaker 2: expressed the double bounce is when someone's legs are already 435 00:21:22,165 --> 00:21:25,725 Speaker 2: coming down straight and then another person bounces and it 436 00:21:25,765 --> 00:21:28,565 Speaker 2: makes their legs compound and cause a fracture. 437 00:21:28,805 --> 00:21:31,244 Speaker 3: And the break is exactly the break I had, so 438 00:21:31,285 --> 00:21:32,764 Speaker 3: I know how bad it is. It's the break of 439 00:21:32,805 --> 00:21:35,484 Speaker 3: the tibia and you actually hear a pop is and 440 00:21:35,565 --> 00:21:37,445 Speaker 3: you need surgery and stuff like and for kids to 441 00:21:37,445 --> 00:21:39,524 Speaker 3: get the break is even worse than adults because of 442 00:21:39,605 --> 00:21:42,925 Speaker 3: something about growth plates and like growth plate, growth plates. 443 00:21:42,925 --> 00:21:44,085 Speaker 3: You don't want to hear growth plates. 444 00:21:44,125 --> 00:21:46,044 Speaker 1: You don't you don't want to hear growth plates. 445 00:21:46,125 --> 00:21:47,805 Speaker 3: I'm like, I thought it was just a cheeky little 446 00:21:47,805 --> 00:21:50,804 Speaker 3: broken wrist, but no, that one, no no fun. So 447 00:21:50,845 --> 00:21:53,045 Speaker 3: I read it and went, no, this is really bad. Okay, okay, 448 00:21:53,085 --> 00:21:55,485 Speaker 3: no trampoline. But then I thought, where do we drop 449 00:21:55,484 --> 00:21:59,885 Speaker 3: the line, because what are kids do outside trampolines? Scooters? Well, 450 00:22:00,484 --> 00:22:02,805 Speaker 3: my sister broke a wrist on a scooter, but there's 451 00:22:02,925 --> 00:22:06,205 Speaker 3: way more dangerous, sure surely, surely skateboarding. 452 00:22:06,325 --> 00:22:10,445 Speaker 4: Also, how do we balance this against what Jonathan yeah 453 00:22:10,645 --> 00:22:13,485 Speaker 4: telling us about how the online world is so much 454 00:22:13,525 --> 00:22:15,125 Speaker 4: more dangerous and the offline world. 455 00:22:15,405 --> 00:22:17,445 Speaker 1: Was he not talking about trampoline. 456 00:22:16,965 --> 00:22:19,845 Speaker 3: Parks, sir exactly? And this is the thing is, it's like, okay, 457 00:22:19,925 --> 00:22:22,325 Speaker 3: so we take them out of the skateboarding parks. They 458 00:22:22,365 --> 00:22:23,925 Speaker 3: know you should never go to the beach, don't go 459 00:22:24,085 --> 00:22:27,525 Speaker 3: near a body of water, no roller skating, jumping castles, 460 00:22:27,605 --> 00:22:30,125 Speaker 3: rock climb. I don't forget the screen, Oh any sport? 461 00:22:30,405 --> 00:22:32,285 Speaker 3: No screen is like, what are. 462 00:22:32,205 --> 00:22:34,605 Speaker 4: They meant to be doing with their time. Don't say 463 00:22:34,605 --> 00:22:35,205 Speaker 4: read a book. 464 00:22:35,965 --> 00:22:38,685 Speaker 3: They don't want to read a book. What do you do? 465 00:22:38,805 --> 00:22:42,245 Speaker 3: And to your point, Amelia, like the reason trampoline parks 466 00:22:42,245 --> 00:22:44,205 Speaker 3: are so popular is because what are we to do 467 00:22:44,245 --> 00:22:46,284 Speaker 3: on a rainy day? Tell me what we are to 468 00:22:46,325 --> 00:22:48,685 Speaker 3: do other than turn the television on. So I think 469 00:22:48,725 --> 00:22:51,445 Speaker 3: it's like that. There is an element of risk with 470 00:22:51,605 --> 00:22:55,645 Speaker 3: any physical play. But if we want children and adults 471 00:22:55,645 --> 00:22:57,925 Speaker 3: and human beings to be physically active and engage in 472 00:22:57,965 --> 00:23:00,764 Speaker 3: the world, then every now and then we're going to 473 00:23:00,765 --> 00:23:02,765 Speaker 3: break a bone. That's a very unpopular thing. 474 00:23:03,165 --> 00:23:05,205 Speaker 2: I would argue that this is more low risk than 475 00:23:05,285 --> 00:23:07,685 Speaker 2: them going down those burning hot slides in the middle 476 00:23:07,725 --> 00:23:10,284 Speaker 2: of summer, oh where they could end up with rashes 477 00:23:10,484 --> 00:23:11,125 Speaker 2: down their leg. 478 00:23:11,285 --> 00:23:15,525 Speaker 4: This is interesting, Stacy, You have just hit my third rail, 479 00:23:15,685 --> 00:23:19,165 Speaker 4: which is playgrounds. Yes, because we're in this funny limbo 480 00:23:19,245 --> 00:23:21,685 Speaker 4: land right now. Because risk taking is seen as desirable 481 00:23:21,765 --> 00:23:24,645 Speaker 4: for kids, we all want to raise risk takers, and 482 00:23:24,725 --> 00:23:27,645 Speaker 4: yet we don't actually want our children to take any risks. 483 00:23:27,765 --> 00:23:31,405 Speaker 4: And these contradictions played out in a very interesting situation 484 00:23:31,525 --> 00:23:34,925 Speaker 4: for me. Recently, I went to a playground in Bury 485 00:23:35,005 --> 00:23:38,165 Speaker 4: in New South Wales, which the Daily Mail has described 486 00:23:38,205 --> 00:23:40,085 Speaker 4: as Australia's most dangerous playground. 487 00:23:40,245 --> 00:23:42,605 Speaker 1: So naturally I read that and I had to go there. 488 00:23:42,765 --> 00:23:45,205 Speaker 3: Your son saw it and was like, take me there immediately. 489 00:23:45,525 --> 00:23:48,365 Speaker 1: He's a risk taker, On't I a good parent? Doctor Becky. 490 00:23:48,885 --> 00:23:52,484 Speaker 4: At least thirty parents have reported broken bones, fractures, burns 491 00:23:52,885 --> 00:23:55,804 Speaker 4: and other serious injuries to kids at that playground. I 492 00:23:55,845 --> 00:23:58,125 Speaker 4: don't quite understand the burns. I don't want to know. 493 00:23:58,565 --> 00:24:01,365 Speaker 4: But this playground is actually the vanguard of this new 494 00:24:01,445 --> 00:24:04,685 Speaker 4: style of playground which does experiment with risk taking. So 495 00:24:04,725 --> 00:24:07,244 Speaker 4: it's got a faster flying fox, it's got a higher 496 00:24:07,285 --> 00:24:10,085 Speaker 4: piece of climbing equipment. It's got a bizarre giant beer 497 00:24:10,125 --> 00:24:12,925 Speaker 4: boull that your children roll around in. There's no beer, 498 00:24:12,965 --> 00:24:16,004 Speaker 4: don't worry. But what I found interesting there were there 499 00:24:16,045 --> 00:24:18,685 Speaker 4: were these signs that said that you were not allowed 500 00:24:18,725 --> 00:24:20,845 Speaker 4: to help your children on the play equipment. It said 501 00:24:20,845 --> 00:24:23,405 Speaker 4: your children know their own limits and they will play 502 00:24:23,484 --> 00:24:26,045 Speaker 4: safely within them. The minute you were helping a child 503 00:24:26,045 --> 00:24:28,845 Speaker 4: climb up to the next level of a climbing structure, 504 00:24:29,285 --> 00:24:31,244 Speaker 4: you are putting them in danger. You're putting them in 505 00:24:31,285 --> 00:24:34,645 Speaker 4: a potentially unsafe situation because you're pushing them beyond their limits. 506 00:24:35,245 --> 00:24:37,165 Speaker 2: What does this all add up to. How do we 507 00:24:37,205 --> 00:24:38,725 Speaker 2: figure out the right amount of risk. 508 00:24:39,005 --> 00:24:41,685 Speaker 3: That's fascinating because I think people do do that and 509 00:24:41,725 --> 00:24:45,284 Speaker 3: don't realize that the hovering and the not allowing the 510 00:24:45,325 --> 00:24:47,605 Speaker 3: confidence to grow and that kind of thing can actually 511 00:24:47,805 --> 00:24:51,365 Speaker 3: cause harm. And you point to as well the revolution 512 00:24:51,445 --> 00:24:54,085 Speaker 3: in kids playgrounds, which is I remember when I was 513 00:24:54,085 --> 00:24:56,085 Speaker 3: at school, a girl fell off the monkey bars and 514 00:24:56,405 --> 00:24:59,044 Speaker 3: there was a something was hanging out when she did it, 515 00:24:59,085 --> 00:25:03,165 Speaker 3: and like elbow through arm, like horrific break. Now you 516 00:25:03,205 --> 00:25:05,845 Speaker 3: looked at that equipment and went, that is actually avoidable. 517 00:25:06,045 --> 00:25:09,165 Speaker 3: Like there are such regulations, which is really really positive 518 00:25:09,205 --> 00:25:12,085 Speaker 3: from the floor being a little bit more bouncy and 519 00:25:12,445 --> 00:25:14,285 Speaker 3: not being so high and all that kind of stuff. 520 00:25:14,325 --> 00:25:18,284 Speaker 3: That's great, But I still think that we've got to 521 00:25:18,365 --> 00:25:21,645 Speaker 3: accept that our kids are gonna get hurt sometimes. And 522 00:25:22,085 --> 00:25:25,725 Speaker 3: with this too, I found the point pertinent that it 523 00:25:25,805 --> 00:25:28,405 Speaker 3: is far less risky to jump on a home trampoline 524 00:25:28,565 --> 00:25:30,524 Speaker 3: than in a trampoline park. So the issue in your 525 00:25:30,525 --> 00:25:33,925 Speaker 3: trampoline park is that it's often the little kids that 526 00:25:34,005 --> 00:25:36,125 Speaker 3: the smaller kids that get hurt by the bigger kids 527 00:25:36,165 --> 00:25:39,925 Speaker 3: who jabble, bounce, them or land on them, and there 528 00:25:39,925 --> 00:25:41,445 Speaker 3: are no springs, so you think it would be fine. 529 00:25:41,445 --> 00:25:44,605 Speaker 3: That's not what's hurting them. That's you know, spinal injuries 530 00:25:44,685 --> 00:25:47,805 Speaker 3: or the crap that you hear way safer on a trampoline. 531 00:25:47,805 --> 00:25:50,325 Speaker 4: All the springs at home, I have to add, are 532 00:25:50,445 --> 00:25:54,285 Speaker 4: hurting them. The nutritions wanted me to make that clear. 533 00:25:54,645 --> 00:25:56,885 Speaker 2: Mine at Hope is like a padded cell. I love 534 00:25:57,005 --> 00:25:58,285 Speaker 2: sending my daughter. 535 00:25:58,005 --> 00:26:00,045 Speaker 3: Out on the trail, have one with the big netting. 536 00:26:00,285 --> 00:26:01,405 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, big netting. 537 00:26:01,525 --> 00:26:03,925 Speaker 2: But I was actually hoping that this was going to 538 00:26:03,965 --> 00:26:06,605 Speaker 2: catch on because my pelvic floor is not what it 539 00:26:06,685 --> 00:26:08,325 Speaker 2: used to be, and my daughter wants me on the 540 00:26:08,365 --> 00:26:10,485 Speaker 2: trampoline with her a lot. So I was happy to 541 00:26:10,484 --> 00:26:13,524 Speaker 2: be discouraged from getting on there for safety reasons. 542 00:26:13,525 --> 00:26:14,844 Speaker 3: And so, of course what you have to tell your 543 00:26:14,925 --> 00:26:17,885 Speaker 3: daughter is I've read the safety research because I'm such 544 00:26:17,925 --> 00:26:20,445 Speaker 3: good mother, and you should only have one person at 545 00:26:20,484 --> 00:26:22,565 Speaker 3: a time. That's true, because that's when we get dangerous. 546 00:26:22,605 --> 00:26:24,805 Speaker 3: So mummy's gonna scroll on her phone. 547 00:26:24,805 --> 00:26:27,485 Speaker 1: Way. 548 00:26:28,484 --> 00:26:32,324 Speaker 3: It is time for our recommendations of the week, Stacey, 549 00:26:32,365 --> 00:26:33,085 Speaker 3: I want you to go first. 550 00:26:33,085 --> 00:26:34,804 Speaker 1: What have you got for okay? Mine? 551 00:26:34,965 --> 00:26:37,885 Speaker 2: This week is very random it's a recipe, except it 552 00:26:37,885 --> 00:26:42,524 Speaker 2: doesn't really exist. I'm a terrible cook, but making this 553 00:26:42,845 --> 00:26:45,084 Speaker 2: for dinner always makes me look like I'm great. And 554 00:26:45,125 --> 00:26:47,445 Speaker 2: I will bring it in here for leftovers at least 555 00:26:47,484 --> 00:26:49,885 Speaker 2: once a week, and everyone thinks I'm really fancy. Everyone 556 00:26:49,925 --> 00:26:52,005 Speaker 2: asks me to tell them what it is. And it's 557 00:26:52,005 --> 00:26:53,925 Speaker 2: so basic that I don't even need to write it 558 00:26:53,965 --> 00:26:55,764 Speaker 2: down for you or send you a link, because I 559 00:26:55,805 --> 00:26:58,365 Speaker 2: can just tell you in one sentence. So it's just 560 00:26:58,605 --> 00:27:02,485 Speaker 2: lamb mince instead of beef mince, and I just do cumin, 561 00:27:02,645 --> 00:27:06,245 Speaker 2: paprika and cinnamon and tomato paste. You don't need measurements. 562 00:27:06,285 --> 00:27:07,485 Speaker 3: That's in my cupboard right now. 563 00:27:07,605 --> 00:27:08,805 Speaker 1: They coat I could. 564 00:27:08,685 --> 00:27:10,885 Speaker 2: Do that, just go off vibes, just whack it all 565 00:27:10,885 --> 00:27:12,605 Speaker 2: in until it looks right to you. Salt and pepper 566 00:27:12,605 --> 00:27:14,965 Speaker 2: if you wish, don't go crazy. And then I just 567 00:27:15,005 --> 00:27:18,885 Speaker 2: cook zucchinis and potatoes in the air fryer and whack 568 00:27:18,925 --> 00:27:21,845 Speaker 2: it on top with how am I cooking the lamb itself? 569 00:27:22,045 --> 00:27:24,165 Speaker 1: Just in a fry pan? Okay, just chuck on one 570 00:27:24,165 --> 00:27:26,405 Speaker 1: of those who does need step. 571 00:27:30,725 --> 00:27:35,125 Speaker 2: Down, and I just put taziki on the top and 572 00:27:35,165 --> 00:27:38,885 Speaker 2: it's delicious, last for days and you look really talented 573 00:27:38,885 --> 00:27:39,324 Speaker 2: when you're not. 574 00:27:39,484 --> 00:27:40,205 Speaker 3: I would eat that. 575 00:27:40,525 --> 00:27:42,764 Speaker 2: It's very good, and my daughter actually does eat it, 576 00:27:42,845 --> 00:27:43,965 Speaker 2: and she can be a bit peach. 577 00:27:44,005 --> 00:27:45,765 Speaker 1: Pretty good eater, but she can be a bit peggy. 578 00:27:45,805 --> 00:27:48,445 Speaker 2: But it's kind of mild enough that most kids, I 579 00:27:48,445 --> 00:27:49,125 Speaker 2: think would eat it. 580 00:27:49,445 --> 00:27:51,365 Speaker 3: I have a confession, which is that my nearly two 581 00:27:51,405 --> 00:27:54,125 Speaker 3: year old has never eaten meat, not not for a preference. 582 00:27:54,245 --> 00:27:56,685 Speaker 3: She will not put meat in her mouth. And it 583 00:27:56,685 --> 00:28:00,965 Speaker 3: has been my goal to try and get something. 584 00:28:01,125 --> 00:28:03,445 Speaker 1: This is cinnamon makes it taste like dessert. 585 00:28:04,125 --> 00:28:06,645 Speaker 3: Cinnamon's always That's what I do with the veggies. I 586 00:28:06,645 --> 00:28:08,605 Speaker 3: think that I could get some lamb into her that way. 587 00:28:08,605 --> 00:28:09,925 Speaker 3: I'm going to try it. How about you? 588 00:28:09,925 --> 00:28:11,324 Speaker 1: A Millia Okay? 589 00:28:11,484 --> 00:28:14,485 Speaker 4: Mine is an attempt to answer the question that has 590 00:28:14,525 --> 00:28:16,845 Speaker 4: been running through this show, which is if our children 591 00:28:16,885 --> 00:28:17,805 Speaker 4: are not allowed. 592 00:28:17,525 --> 00:28:19,365 Speaker 1: On the screens, and they're not allowed on the. 593 00:28:19,325 --> 00:28:24,004 Speaker 4: Trampolines and the dfks who need to keep their hands busy, 594 00:28:24,205 --> 00:28:27,845 Speaker 4: I have a potential answer for you. I was recently 595 00:28:27,885 --> 00:28:32,445 Speaker 4: in a children's museum in San Francisco, which I know 596 00:28:32,685 --> 00:28:36,525 Speaker 4: sounds very fancy, but as listeners will be aware, when 597 00:28:36,565 --> 00:28:39,445 Speaker 4: you travel with children, all you do when you go 598 00:28:39,485 --> 00:28:42,205 Speaker 4: to a new place. Is you type playgrounds or children's 599 00:28:42,285 --> 00:28:44,885 Speaker 4: museum into Google Maps and then you end up going 600 00:28:44,925 --> 00:28:47,805 Speaker 4: there every single day of your holiday, which is precisely. 601 00:28:47,365 --> 00:28:47,885 Speaker 1: What we did. 602 00:28:48,085 --> 00:28:49,965 Speaker 4: We went to the Children's Museum and they had a 603 00:28:50,005 --> 00:28:52,405 Speaker 4: brilliant thing there that took me immediately back. You know 604 00:28:52,445 --> 00:28:54,685 Speaker 4: when you see something that just immediately gives you a 605 00:28:54,765 --> 00:28:56,045 Speaker 4: flashback to your childhood. 606 00:28:56,085 --> 00:28:59,045 Speaker 1: I love that when that happens. It was a spirograph. 607 00:28:59,685 --> 00:29:02,925 Speaker 2: So this was the things that look like tongs swile around. 608 00:29:03,125 --> 00:29:05,245 Speaker 3: Yes, I need a visual of this. I'm going to 609 00:29:05,285 --> 00:29:07,125 Speaker 3: questa con jesse did I go to? 610 00:29:09,845 --> 00:29:12,245 Speaker 4: This is a device straight out of the eighties. It's 611 00:29:12,245 --> 00:29:15,365 Speaker 4: not even the nineties. I think this was nineteen eighties technology. 612 00:29:15,485 --> 00:29:18,885 Speaker 4: Like we're talking Alan Bond, We're talking Australia winning the 613 00:29:19,685 --> 00:29:22,925 Speaker 4: America's Cup. This is what we're talking about here. But 614 00:29:23,405 --> 00:29:26,325 Speaker 4: it was cutting edge at the time. And basically what 615 00:29:26,405 --> 00:29:29,445 Speaker 4: it was was two pieces of plastics in a circle shape, 616 00:29:29,525 --> 00:29:31,805 Speaker 4: and you put one circle inside the other and the 617 00:29:31,845 --> 00:29:34,925 Speaker 4: circles have rings with teeth, and then you use the 618 00:29:35,005 --> 00:29:40,045 Speaker 4: rings to create the most perfect geometric shapes. So basically 619 00:29:40,485 --> 00:29:46,525 Speaker 4: you can create these utterly mesmerizing almost trippy patterns with 620 00:29:46,805 --> 00:29:50,165 Speaker 4: the different spirographs, and I, of course leapt on this 621 00:29:50,245 --> 00:29:53,005 Speaker 4: at the Children's museum, and being a DFK, did not 622 00:29:53,085 --> 00:29:55,045 Speaker 4: want to leave when I was told by other members 623 00:29:55,085 --> 00:29:57,805 Speaker 4: of my party that we needed to go to another room. 624 00:29:58,245 --> 00:30:00,165 Speaker 4: And then I promptly bought a travel tin. 625 00:30:00,445 --> 00:30:00,965 Speaker 1: Very cute. 626 00:30:01,405 --> 00:30:03,844 Speaker 4: You can you can very easily travel with it, as 627 00:30:03,845 --> 00:30:05,845 Speaker 4: the name suggests, take it to a restaurant and it's 628 00:30:05,885 --> 00:30:08,245 Speaker 4: just a little tin with your spirographs in. It takes 629 00:30:08,245 --> 00:30:11,485 Speaker 4: some paper, just use a regular pen or a pencil, 630 00:30:12,165 --> 00:30:16,045 Speaker 4: and you will find it very soothing. I guarantee it's 631 00:30:16,045 --> 00:30:20,045 Speaker 4: almost meditative to create these geometric shapes and then hopefully 632 00:30:20,165 --> 00:30:23,325 Speaker 4: one day, fingers crossed, your children will find them soothing 633 00:30:23,445 --> 00:30:24,325 Speaker 4: as well. 634 00:30:24,485 --> 00:30:27,405 Speaker 3: I have gotten really into coloring and lately because I'm 635 00:30:27,485 --> 00:30:29,725 Speaker 3: doing it at the same time as as Larner, and 636 00:30:29,765 --> 00:30:30,885 Speaker 3: I'm like, this is quite. 637 00:30:30,805 --> 00:30:35,084 Speaker 2: Yeah, there's something in that we lost the art. 638 00:30:35,485 --> 00:30:37,605 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah. And I'm doing like my cross hatching and 639 00:30:37,645 --> 00:30:39,325 Speaker 3: like my shading, and then she comes and. 640 00:30:39,885 --> 00:30:43,085 Speaker 1: Up and I'm like, back off, kid, back off. 641 00:30:43,325 --> 00:30:47,165 Speaker 3: My recommendation is eat, sleep, repeat. Have either of you 642 00:30:47,245 --> 00:30:48,485 Speaker 3: listened to this podcast? 643 00:30:48,605 --> 00:30:49,285 Speaker 1: Great podcast. 644 00:30:49,405 --> 00:30:51,965 Speaker 3: I love it. So I was talking before about Kelly McCarran, 645 00:30:52,125 --> 00:30:54,885 Speaker 3: and she is on Your Beauty. She's been on a 646 00:30:54,885 --> 00:30:57,565 Speaker 3: bunch of Mummeya podcasts, and she has been making this 647 00:30:57,605 --> 00:30:59,925 Speaker 3: podcast with Key Researls, who also used to be on 648 00:30:59,925 --> 00:31:02,645 Speaker 3: The Spill, used to work at Mummy Out. And I 649 00:31:02,805 --> 00:31:05,965 Speaker 3: have loved this podcast since it first came out. And 650 00:31:06,005 --> 00:31:10,045 Speaker 3: it's really hard to explain why because I generally don't 651 00:31:10,125 --> 00:31:14,084 Speaker 3: listen to a lot of parenting podcasts, but this is 652 00:31:14,405 --> 00:31:17,685 Speaker 3: It feels really warm, it feels really friendly. There's no judgment. 653 00:31:18,285 --> 00:31:21,325 Speaker 3: They are very vulnerable about their own experiences, but then 654 00:31:21,365 --> 00:31:24,965 Speaker 3: it's very relatable. So for example, there have been episodes 655 00:31:25,125 --> 00:31:28,245 Speaker 3: about is my toddler a bully? One of my favorites 656 00:31:28,325 --> 00:31:30,285 Speaker 3: was be honest, how bad was it going from one 657 00:31:30,325 --> 00:31:34,645 Speaker 3: to two? Like the Transition. Kee recently shared her second 658 00:31:34,685 --> 00:31:36,525 Speaker 3: birth story. I could listen to birth stories all day, 659 00:31:36,525 --> 00:31:40,405 Speaker 3: every day. I just love that it can be really helpful. 660 00:31:40,565 --> 00:31:44,125 Speaker 3: Sometimes they speak to experts. They actually started off independently 661 00:31:44,165 --> 00:31:46,165 Speaker 3: and they've just come on to them. Maya Network. I've 662 00:31:46,165 --> 00:31:48,365 Speaker 3: been yellingked for years, get those girls on our network. 663 00:31:48,405 --> 00:31:51,405 Speaker 3: They are just so so good and so finally they are. 664 00:31:51,445 --> 00:31:54,245 Speaker 3: They've got you art. It's just brilliant. I love what 665 00:31:54,325 --> 00:31:56,805 Speaker 3: they do. Eat, sleep, repeat. There's a link now show notes. 666 00:31:57,205 --> 00:31:59,725 Speaker 3: That is all we have time for on Parenting out 667 00:31:59,725 --> 00:32:02,005 Speaker 3: Loud today. We will see you next Saturday. 668 00:32:02,125 --> 00:32:09,965 Speaker 4: See you at the Trampoline Part Bye.