WEBVTT - The Big Trump Conspiracy Theory

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<v Speaker 1>You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.

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<v Speaker 2>Mamma Mea acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters

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<v Speaker 2>that this podcast is recorded on Hello and welcome to

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<v Speaker 2>Mamma Mia out Loud. It's what women are actually talking about.

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<v Speaker 2>On Monday, the sixteenth of September, I'm Holly Wainwright, I'm

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<v Speaker 2>MEA Friedman.

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<v Speaker 3>And I'm Jesse Stevens.

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<v Speaker 2>And on the show today, unpicking the conspiracies from the

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<v Speaker 2>dog whistles on Planet Trump as he apparently survives another

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<v Speaker 2>attempt on his life. Also unpacking the Perfect Couple and

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<v Speaker 2>why Nicole Kidman is very much in her rich lady

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<v Speaker 2>who lives by the sea era and do you want

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<v Speaker 2>your partner to know where you are in your cycle?

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<v Speaker 2>The endless inventions to handle our hormones and whether they're

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<v Speaker 2>always helpful. But first, me a Freedman.

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<v Speaker 1>In case you missed it, Prince Harry celebrated his fortieth

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<v Speaker 1>birthday over the weekend, which will make you feel very old.

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<v Speaker 1>If you remember Kim being taken out of the hospital

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<v Speaker 1>in the arms of his mother, she had says Diana

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<v Speaker 1>in a little blankie.

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<v Speaker 2>Thought of that, but of course I'm under that.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, the big question in the lead up, of course,

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<v Speaker 1>was would King Charles and Prince William acknowledge it? Because

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<v Speaker 1>they haven't since twenty twenty one. I shouldn't laugh. I

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<v Speaker 1>think the word to use is estranged. But this year

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<v Speaker 1>they did acknowledge it.

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<v Speaker 2>You can't ignore the big ones, so you can ignore

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<v Speaker 2>thirty eight who cares whatever, but you can't ignore them.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, they sort of acknowledge it. So the Royal Family

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<v Speaker 1>official social media platform, which is like Buckingham Palace and

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<v Speaker 1>Charles and Camilla's people, they posted a photo to the

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<v Speaker 1>grid of a smiling Harry and the caption read wishing

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<v Speaker 1>the Duke of Sussex a very happy fortieth birthday today.

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<v Speaker 1>Exclamation mark emoji of a cake.

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<v Speaker 4>Oh, I love it.

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<v Speaker 3>I think the exclamation mark is very encouraging. I think

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<v Speaker 3>it seems very authentic.

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<v Speaker 1>The shade came a little bit later in the day

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<v Speaker 1>when William and Kate they have their own account called

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<v Speaker 1>the Princeton Princess of Wales, and they reposted the grid

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<v Speaker 1>from King Charles's page, but to their stories, and we

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<v Speaker 1>know if it goes on the stories. That's the first

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<v Speaker 1>piece of shade. The second piece of shade is that

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<v Speaker 1>they paraphrased the caption out of their own and said,

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<v Speaker 1>wishing a happy fortieth birthday to the Duke of Sussex.

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<v Speaker 1>No exclamation mark, no kke emoji, no very happy happy.

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<v Speaker 2>They took the emoji off to post it to the story.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, they did their own caption, but it's almost like

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<v Speaker 1>it is your birthday today.

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<v Speaker 3>And I heard reports that Charles is planning on giving

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<v Speaker 3>Harry little birthday phone call, and so is Kate. Allegend

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<v Speaker 3>this is Red and the tabloids.

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<v Speaker 1>Jesse after the things that he said about her in

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<v Speaker 1>Wah his memoir, There's no way.

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<v Speaker 3>She would exclusively told the post. So Kate is going

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<v Speaker 3>to phone to wish him well on his birthday, but

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<v Speaker 3>William will not be mad.

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<v Speaker 1>I know what I think that is when you ring

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<v Speaker 1>someone and you just hope that it goes straight to

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<v Speaker 1>voicemail and you're like, please pick up, please don't pick up,

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<v Speaker 1>please don't pick up.

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<v Speaker 2>A happy birthday, Sorry to have missed you.

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<v Speaker 3>And have you also heard that he's getting a cheek

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<v Speaker 3>a little inheritance.

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<v Speaker 2>How much money is he getting for his birthday?

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<v Speaker 3>Look reports very but I'm going with sixteen mil from

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<v Speaker 3>the Queen mother. She had a thing where when you

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<v Speaker 3>turn forty you get a pot of money. He's getting

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<v Speaker 3>another pot of money, another pot of money. So I

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<v Speaker 3>love little birthday present for Harry.

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<v Speaker 2>That is shade right if you just post it to

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<v Speaker 2>the stories, oh, because.

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<v Speaker 3>It's going to disappear. And also okay, it's me as

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<v Speaker 3>birthday right. Holly shares a happy birthday to mayor to

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<v Speaker 3>the grid, to the grid, I just reshare Holly's happy birthday.

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<v Speaker 2>Which isn't mine to share with the sad caption. With

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<v Speaker 2>a sad caption, you can share with it.

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<v Speaker 1>I can ever do.

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<v Speaker 4>I hate you.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, thank you for that translation.

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<v Speaker 5>Donald Trump says he's safe and well after reports of

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<v Speaker 5>gunshots described to have been fired in his vicinity.

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<v Speaker 2>There has been another assassination attempt on Donald Trump's life,

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<v Speaker 2>at least that's certainly how it seems as we're recording

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<v Speaker 2>this at Monday lunchtime. Here is what's being reported by

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<v Speaker 2>reputable sources. Trump was playing golf. I don't want to

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<v Speaker 2>be mean. I don't want to start with negativity.

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<v Speaker 1>Busy, no, no, no. He likes to play golf. It's

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<v Speaker 1>what he does, clearly a lot, barely. Apparently he's very

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<v Speaker 1>good at it.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm not running for president, and I would find it

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<v Speaker 2>hard to find time for how long does golf take?

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<v Speaker 1>A golf is for board people.

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<v Speaker 2>Anyway, let's put the shade aside, because this is quite serious.

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<v Speaker 2>He was playing golf in Florida at Palm Beach and

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<v Speaker 2>apparently a rifle poked through the fence of the golf course,

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<v Speaker 2>and it's not clear if they got any shots off,

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<v Speaker 2>but the Secret Service shot back. At least four shots

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<v Speaker 2>were fired, and the gunman ran away but then later

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<v Speaker 2>got caught. It turns out his preliminary identification is he's

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<v Speaker 2>a guy called Ryan Ruth and that he has been

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<v Speaker 2>very vocal on social media criticizing Trump, and he's very

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<v Speaker 2>pro Ukraine. So he's said in captions that he did

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<v Speaker 2>vote for Trump in twenty sixteen but has been deeply

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<v Speaker 2>disillusioned by him and he I mean, you don't want

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<v Speaker 2>to diagnose from social media captions, but the man appears

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<v Speaker 2>to be rather unwell.

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<v Speaker 1>He's fifty eight, and his sons come out and said

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<v Speaker 1>that he hopes that media reports are overblown. All he

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<v Speaker 1>can say is that his father is a hard working

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<v Speaker 1>and loving father. I think he's also from Hawaii.

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<v Speaker 2>So if you've heard about this, and Trump is fine,

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<v Speaker 2>though he was not hit or injured in this encounter,

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<v Speaker 2>and it's been roundly condemned of course, that there is

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<v Speaker 2>no place for this kind of violence in politics, from

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<v Speaker 2>everyone from Harris to Biden and so on. If you've

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<v Speaker 2>heard that story, you've probably also heard though some of

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<v Speaker 2>the skepticism around it. Now we're not endorsing any of that,

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<v Speaker 2>but some of the kind of points that are being

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<v Speaker 2>shared are, is Donald Trump going to get someone to

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<v Speaker 2>pretend to shoot him every time his ratings go down?

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<v Speaker 2>And so on and so on. It's getting harder and

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<v Speaker 2>harder to pick the conspiracies from the truths. So it's

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<v Speaker 2>hardly surprising that the first reaction to this and almost

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<v Speaker 2>any event, actually is did that actually happen? Is it

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<v Speaker 2>actually real? Trump's team are especially good at this.

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<v Speaker 1>I wanted to.

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<v Speaker 2>Talk a little bit about the Eating Dogs and Cats

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<v Speaker 2>debarcle of the past week as an example. The world

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<v Speaker 2>has been laughing at that since the debate last Wednesday.

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<v Speaker 2>We spoke about it obviously on the show on Wednesday

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<v Speaker 2>and on a special subscribers episode on Thursday.

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<v Speaker 1>And on the weekend, I shared this song to the

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<v Speaker 1>group chat thinking that it was funny. Have a listen to.

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<v Speaker 2>This in Springfield, they're eating the dogs, they're eating the cats.

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<v Speaker 6>They're eating the pets.

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<v Speaker 1>Of the people that live there.

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<v Speaker 7>They're eating the dogs.

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<v Speaker 1>That's a remix by DJ the Kidner's I'm sorry it

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<v Speaker 1>was quite catchy, but I do appreciate it's also quite serious.

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<v Speaker 2>Everybody's been laughing about that and making cool remixes of

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<v Speaker 2>it and using it broadly as an example of how

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<v Speaker 2>Donald Trump lost his mind and had some sort of

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<v Speaker 2>brain explosion in the debate. But actually that's not what

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<v Speaker 2>has happened, and there isn't that much to laugh about,

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<v Speaker 2>because what this eating dogs and cats thing that Trump

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<v Speaker 2>exploded with during the debate has actually done is send

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<v Speaker 2>the world's media to a small city in Midwestern America

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<v Speaker 2>that has recently had a large injection of Haitian immigrants. Now,

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<v Speaker 2>the real story about Springfield, Ohio could definitely be seen

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<v Speaker 2>as a good one. The town was really languishing, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>It's manufacturing had moved on, like the story in lots

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<v Speaker 2>of small towns across America and Australia. Indeed, and after

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<v Speaker 2>COVID and lots of incentives from the city authorities for

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<v Speaker 2>businesses to come and set up businesses, their factories, manufacturing

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<v Speaker 2>and so on. There was a labor shortage, so people

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<v Speaker 2>were encouraged to move there, take the jobs, and reinvigorate

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<v Speaker 2>the city. It's estimated that somewhere between twelve thousand and

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<v Speaker 2>twenty thousand Haitian immigrants from other parts of the US

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<v Speaker 2>and who have relatively recently arrived from Haiti because there's

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of unread in Haiti, have moved to Springfield

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<v Speaker 2>to take these jobs. Right now, any smallish town that

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<v Speaker 2>has a sudden population shift like this is going to

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<v Speaker 2>face issues. And indeed Springfield has infrastructure issues like around healthcare, housing, schools,

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<v Speaker 2>and roads. It is not necessarily caught up yet right

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<v Speaker 2>with this population injection, and there are some legitimate issues,

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<v Speaker 2>none of which have anything to do, of course, with

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<v Speaker 2>anybody eating cats or dogs. But what Trump and JD.

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<v Speaker 2>Vance's literal dog whistle did while all of us lefties

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<v Speaker 2>were laughing, or all of us in our anti Trump

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<v Speaker 2>bubble were laughing, was exactly what it set out to do,

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<v Speaker 2>which was to highlight a place that has a few

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<v Speaker 2>legitimate issues with population growth and hand amc to resentment

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<v Speaker 2>and fear, this kind of hum of do you want

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<v Speaker 2>your town to be overrun with strangers, foreigners, people who

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<v Speaker 2>are different to you? And no one was talking about

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<v Speaker 2>Springfield before Tuesday, and now this deeply racist undertone has

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<v Speaker 2>been legit.

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<v Speaker 1>I hadn't thought about it like that, And it's.

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<v Speaker 2>What Trump wants. I want us to consider every time

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<v Speaker 2>we're like laughing about him and thinking like that guy's crazy,

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<v Speaker 2>what an idiot?

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<v Speaker 8>What?

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<v Speaker 2>His team and him probably are smarter than we give

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<v Speaker 2>them credit for, because that ridiculous comment in the debate

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<v Speaker 2>has played right into their hands using a conspiracy theory

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<v Speaker 2>like that. Jesse, do you think we need to better

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<v Speaker 2>understand conspiracy theories?

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<v Speaker 3>Yes? I mean it's hard, right because it's like, well,

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<v Speaker 3>how are you meant to react? Like to take it seriously?

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<v Speaker 3>Almost feels more offensive to immigrants, like and it was

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<v Speaker 3>fact checked at the time, and that is.

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<v Speaker 2>No evidence of anybody eating any dogs or cats.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, but what we need to do, I think is

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<v Speaker 3>follow up with the real world consequences. Because the mayor

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<v Speaker 3>of Springfield confirmed to reporters that elementary schools have been

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<v Speaker 3>evacuated because of threats directly to the community. If you

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<v Speaker 3>were someone an immigrant from Haiti and you were living

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<v Speaker 3>in Springfield right now, how genuinely scary would it be.

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<v Speaker 2>Like her to cancel community events?

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<v Speaker 3>I guess the question is also like who's the butt

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<v Speaker 3>of the joke here? Because to a lot of immigrants,

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<v Speaker 3>I think you would feel like the butt of the joke.

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<v Speaker 3>And jd Vance said as much he was speaking.

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<v Speaker 1>He's got to stop talking about cats. Yeah, what's wrong

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<v Speaker 1>with that man?

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<v Speaker 3>He's obsessed.

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<v Speaker 1>He's obsessed with who's got cats, who doesn't have children?

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<v Speaker 1>What they're doing with it?

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<v Speaker 7>What?

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<v Speaker 2>Just sure?

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<v Speaker 3>She's he was speaking, and he said that he is

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<v Speaker 3>willing to create stories, and he was pressed on it,

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<v Speaker 3>and he said, basically, the Republican Party at this point

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<v Speaker 3>is willing to create stories so that the media actually

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<v Speaker 3>pays attention to the suffering of the American people.

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<v Speaker 2>And that's exactly what has just he.

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<v Speaker 3>Knew this wasn't true. Trump knew this wasn't true. It

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<v Speaker 3>didn't matter if it was true, because it told a

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<v Speaker 3>story they wanted to tell about unrest caused by immigrants.

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<v Speaker 3>The damage has been done. No amount of fact checking

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<v Speaker 3>or whatever is going to make any difference. And the

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<v Speaker 3>other thing that they've done is the earpiece. Did you

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<v Speaker 3>guys see this over the weekend? I saw I was,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, just on social media and you can get

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<v Speaker 3>pulled into it really quickly.

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<v Speaker 1>They just what they tried to say is that, Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>what you've got to understand about Trump is I'm going

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<v Speaker 1>to challenge you on one thing, Holly, which is he

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<v Speaker 1>knew what he was doing. Trump never has a strategy, right,

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<v Speaker 1>He's pure id He's just pure. If you think of

0:11:36.087 --> 0:11:38.847
<v Speaker 1>him as a toddler. Toddlers don't have strategies, They just

0:11:38.927 --> 0:11:41.847
<v Speaker 1>react in real time. This was a strategy to the moment.

0:11:41.967 --> 0:11:42.367
<v Speaker 1>I think.

0:11:44.087 --> 0:11:44.527
<v Speaker 2>Strategy.

0:11:44.607 --> 0:11:47.007
<v Speaker 1>But what I was going to say is that the

0:11:47.087 --> 0:11:49.407
<v Speaker 1>people around him, this is why he's so dangerous as

0:11:49.447 --> 0:11:51.847
<v Speaker 1>a leader. And what Kamala Harris was trying to point out,

0:11:52.847 --> 0:11:56.647
<v Speaker 1>he's so easy to manipulate. So I'm not saying that

0:11:56.727 --> 0:11:59.327
<v Speaker 1>his people around him didn't know what to feed him.

0:11:59.607 --> 0:12:04.247
<v Speaker 1>But when there's a fact that he can't handle because

0:12:04.247 --> 0:12:07.447
<v Speaker 1>it doesn't align with his view of himself as a

0:12:07.447 --> 0:12:13.007
<v Speaker 1>tough man, a winner, or powerful almighty, he just makes

0:12:13.087 --> 0:12:15.967
<v Speaker 1>up something else because that's what he has to believe.

0:12:16.447 --> 0:12:19.287
<v Speaker 1>Because it was roundly agreed even by Fox News that

0:12:19.327 --> 0:12:21.487
<v Speaker 1>he lost the debate, and he can't really get away

0:12:21.487 --> 0:12:24.767
<v Speaker 1>from those headlines, just like when he lost the election.

0:12:25.527 --> 0:12:27.727
<v Speaker 1>He has to find a way to make that not true,

0:12:27.887 --> 0:12:31.687
<v Speaker 1>and it is questioning the moderators, and he has since

0:12:31.767 --> 0:12:35.287
<v Speaker 1>said that they should be criminally investigated, the moderators of

0:12:35.287 --> 0:12:39.087
<v Speaker 1>the debate. He's now saying that Kamala Harris had ear

0:12:39.127 --> 0:12:42.087
<v Speaker 1>pieces in her earrings and was being coached in real

0:12:42.127 --> 0:12:44.647
<v Speaker 1>time about what to say and fed the questions in

0:12:44.727 --> 0:12:47.487
<v Speaker 1>advance by the corrupt abe his news.

0:12:47.887 --> 0:12:50.487
<v Speaker 3>But the thing is he didn't start that rumor right

0:12:50.567 --> 0:12:54.407
<v Speaker 3>like it started on X oh yeah by someone else,

0:12:54.447 --> 0:12:56.687
<v Speaker 3>and then of course he does jump onto.

0:12:56.527 --> 0:13:00.727
<v Speaker 1>It, grab anything to soothe himself, and his supporters love

0:13:00.807 --> 0:13:03.967
<v Speaker 1>that because that's a much more interesting story than Kamala

0:13:04.007 --> 0:13:09.007
<v Speaker 1>Harris is just an accomplished smart woman who whipped his ass.

0:13:09.007 --> 0:13:11.327
<v Speaker 3>And the more you ever explain, the guiltier you sound.

0:13:11.487 --> 0:13:14.887
<v Speaker 3>There's every article and fact check out that's gone. She's

0:13:14.967 --> 0:13:17.207
<v Speaker 3>worn these earrings once a month for years.

0:13:17.207 --> 0:13:19.767
<v Speaker 1>And as soon as she then releases a statement ye

0:13:20.047 --> 0:13:23.167
<v Speaker 1>denying that it's like the sharing the tailor for Trump

0:13:23.527 --> 0:13:26.207
<v Speaker 1>deep fakes. As soon as you have to deny it.

0:13:26.327 --> 0:13:29.047
<v Speaker 1>You're dragged into the gutter and dragged into his news cycle,

0:13:29.087 --> 0:13:30.007
<v Speaker 1>and that's what he loves.

0:13:30.687 --> 0:13:33.847
<v Speaker 2>It's interesting, though, because you know the cats and dogs.

0:13:34.167 --> 0:13:38.807
<v Speaker 2>Trump's team are sharing all these very stylized AI cat

0:13:38.847 --> 0:13:42.327
<v Speaker 2>memes of him and JD. Vance on planes fuls of cats,

0:13:42.367 --> 0:13:46.407
<v Speaker 2>and it's very clever. It's very clever. It's got smart

0:13:46.407 --> 0:13:50.967
<v Speaker 2>people around terrifyingly dark because it's playing into it a

0:13:51.047 --> 0:13:56.247
<v Speaker 2>deliberately racist trope one hundred percent. It's putting actual, real

0:13:56.327 --> 0:14:00.727
<v Speaker 2>life humans in danger in Springfield and other places, and

0:14:00.767 --> 0:14:05.127
<v Speaker 2>it's giving everybody lots of fodder to extend this ridiculous conversation.

0:14:05.927 --> 0:14:07.567
<v Speaker 2>I don't know. I wish there was a way to

0:14:07.687 --> 0:14:10.047
<v Speaker 2>avoid being pulled into his version of that.

0:14:10.247 --> 0:14:12.887
<v Speaker 1>But he loves that for two reasons. Firstly, what he

0:14:12.967 --> 0:14:16.007
<v Speaker 1>understands better than anyone who's how to dominate the news cycle,

0:14:16.287 --> 0:14:19.927
<v Speaker 1>That's what I mean exactly. And also it's who's around him,

0:14:20.207 --> 0:14:23.327
<v Speaker 1>So he tends to surround himself by people who know

0:14:23.407 --> 0:14:27.607
<v Speaker 1>how to play him. And he loves conspiracies because you

0:14:27.647 --> 0:14:32.647
<v Speaker 1>can always invent a conspiracy to explain why something you

0:14:32.687 --> 0:14:35.767
<v Speaker 1>don't like isn't true. And so what's alarming, and we're

0:14:35.767 --> 0:14:37.527
<v Speaker 1>going to talk about it more later in the week

0:14:37.567 --> 0:14:40.607
<v Speaker 1>with Emelia Lester. There's a woman called Laura Luma who

0:14:40.967 --> 0:14:42.927
<v Speaker 1>is spending a lot of time with him now and

0:14:42.967 --> 0:14:47.487
<v Speaker 1>traveled to the debate with him. She's a very troubling person,

0:14:47.527 --> 0:14:51.727
<v Speaker 1>and even the most extreme MAGA people have disenfranchised her

0:14:51.767 --> 0:14:54.487
<v Speaker 1>and said she's too extreme for them. She went with

0:14:54.607 --> 0:14:57.007
<v Speaker 1>him to the nine to eleven memorial last week. She

0:14:57.607 --> 0:15:00.367
<v Speaker 1>has publicly said on many occasions that she believes nine

0:15:00.367 --> 0:15:02.367
<v Speaker 1>to eleven was an inside job and that it was

0:15:02.407 --> 0:15:05.247
<v Speaker 1>the American government. Like talk about a conspiracy. So she

0:15:05.367 --> 0:15:09.727
<v Speaker 1>peddles these conspiracy theories, and Trump will just regard agitate

0:15:09.967 --> 0:15:12.887
<v Speaker 1>what he's been told. And that's why he's so easy

0:15:12.887 --> 0:15:16.447
<v Speaker 1>to play any leader that pisss in his pocket, whether

0:15:16.487 --> 0:15:19.247
<v Speaker 1>it's Kim Jong U R. Putin, they know how to

0:15:19.247 --> 0:15:21.527
<v Speaker 1>play him. It doesn't mean that he's colluding with them.

0:15:21.807 --> 0:15:22.887
<v Speaker 1>They're just smarter than him.

0:15:23.047 --> 0:15:25.887
<v Speaker 2>I just worry that we're all being played by him,

0:15:25.927 --> 0:15:28.287
<v Speaker 2>that the left leaning media is being played by him.

0:15:28.327 --> 0:15:29.727
<v Speaker 2>I don't when I say we, I don't mean we

0:15:29.847 --> 0:15:32.927
<v Speaker 2>the left leaning media, but like when we're laughing about

0:15:32.927 --> 0:15:35.047
<v Speaker 2>the dogs and cats and going, this man's out of

0:15:35.047 --> 0:15:37.687
<v Speaker 2>his mind and that we are being played by him

0:15:37.887 --> 0:15:40.727
<v Speaker 2>like a violin. And I think that that's why it'll

0:15:40.767 --> 0:15:44.127
<v Speaker 2>be interesting now to see if there's any legs to

0:15:44.167 --> 0:15:47.887
<v Speaker 2>this idea of like maybe this assassination attempt was overblown,

0:15:47.927 --> 0:15:49.847
<v Speaker 2>maybe it wasn't real. Maybe he just wants a new cycle.

0:15:49.887 --> 0:15:52.087
<v Speaker 2>But that Trump's enemies also stop buying it.

0:15:52.167 --> 0:15:54.967
<v Speaker 1>But that's the left conspiracy. Yeah, yeah, but you even

0:15:54.967 --> 0:15:57.367
<v Speaker 1>saw in the debate he was trying to say, this

0:15:57.607 --> 0:16:01.367
<v Speaker 1>is the Democrats organized to try and have me killed.

0:16:01.407 --> 0:16:03.047
<v Speaker 1>I mean he's been saying that quite a lot. Jadie

0:16:03.087 --> 0:16:05.807
<v Speaker 1>Vance came out straight after that first assassination attempt and

0:16:05.847 --> 0:16:08.807
<v Speaker 1>said that, and many people say that's why he was chosen.

0:16:08.887 --> 0:16:11.927
<v Speaker 1>Apart from being best mates with John Jr. Trump really

0:16:12.047 --> 0:16:14.527
<v Speaker 1>liked that. He loves a conspiracy theory because he knows

0:16:14.527 --> 0:16:17.127
<v Speaker 1>that it plays well with his base, who love a story.

0:16:17.287 --> 0:16:20.127
<v Speaker 3>And to go back to that first assassination attempt, because

0:16:20.127 --> 0:16:22.567
<v Speaker 3>the news cycle moved so quickly that we never kind

0:16:22.607 --> 0:16:25.607
<v Speaker 3>of properly get to prosecute what happened. I remember us

0:16:25.647 --> 0:16:30.327
<v Speaker 3>having a conversation and talking about the contempt in political

0:16:30.327 --> 0:16:34.727
<v Speaker 3>discourse and was this a reflection of where we're at

0:16:34.767 --> 0:16:39.087
<v Speaker 3>at a culture and political divisiveness. Looking back, what actually

0:16:39.127 --> 0:16:41.527
<v Speaker 3>happened there. The way that history will interpret what happened

0:16:41.967 --> 0:16:44.887
<v Speaker 3>was that this gunman and two people died on that day,

0:16:45.087 --> 0:16:47.647
<v Speaker 3>and that was really sad. But what happened on that

0:16:47.767 --> 0:16:51.727
<v Speaker 3>day was he wanted a spectacle. I don't think that

0:16:51.727 --> 0:16:55.327
<v Speaker 3>that man was politically motivated to kill Trump. I think

0:16:55.407 --> 0:16:56.567
<v Speaker 3>he would have killed.

0:16:56.327 --> 0:16:58.767
<v Speaker 1>Popide in the locations of both candidates exactly.

0:16:58.887 --> 0:17:02.207
<v Speaker 3>And so it wasn't anything against a Republican candidate. It

0:17:02.207 --> 0:17:04.447
<v Speaker 3>wasn't anything against Trump. It was about spectacle. It was

0:17:04.767 --> 0:17:06.287
<v Speaker 3>the same as we see in the US all the

0:17:06.327 --> 0:17:09.567
<v Speaker 3>time of people going and school shooting, for example. It's

0:17:09.607 --> 0:17:12.167
<v Speaker 3>got a lot to do with gun laws. This obviously

0:17:12.207 --> 0:17:15.967
<v Speaker 3>we don't know so much about anymore, but the way

0:17:16.047 --> 0:17:19.367
<v Speaker 3>that it was put into this very neat narrative. And

0:17:19.407 --> 0:17:22.447
<v Speaker 3>whether you think Trump's smart or an idiot or manipulated,

0:17:23.087 --> 0:17:25.207
<v Speaker 3>he tells a story, and he tells a good story

0:17:25.407 --> 0:17:27.807
<v Speaker 3>that does resonate with a lot of people and makes

0:17:27.807 --> 0:17:31.207
<v Speaker 3>them feel things. So the cats and dogs, and we

0:17:31.247 --> 0:17:33.767
<v Speaker 3>talked a little bit about this posted debate, but that

0:17:33.967 --> 0:17:38.447
<v Speaker 3>is a story about savages it's about the external savage

0:17:38.607 --> 0:17:43.367
<v Speaker 3>coming into a Western civilization and destroying the vulnerable things

0:17:43.367 --> 0:17:43.807
<v Speaker 3>they love.

0:17:43.887 --> 0:17:45.887
<v Speaker 1>But Jesse, it's also in the same realm as the

0:17:45.967 --> 0:17:50.247
<v Speaker 1>Democrats executing babies. They're executing the babies after they're born.

0:17:50.607 --> 0:17:54.247
<v Speaker 1>It's this idea that these evil people, you're right, are

0:17:54.247 --> 0:17:57.927
<v Speaker 1>threatening our way of life. When the moderators during the

0:17:57.927 --> 0:17:59.967
<v Speaker 1>debate were fact checking him, I mean we were laughing

0:17:59.967 --> 0:18:03.167
<v Speaker 1>because it's like it's satire. It's not something out of

0:18:03.167 --> 0:18:05.967
<v Speaker 1>Saturday Night. I've mister Trump, We've checked, and no, it

0:18:06.047 --> 0:18:07.207
<v Speaker 1>is not legal in anything.

0:18:07.327 --> 0:18:09.887
<v Speaker 3>You know why the facts a cutter baby didn't even

0:18:09.967 --> 0:18:13.047
<v Speaker 3>work because what he was speaking to was something that

0:18:13.247 --> 0:18:14.967
<v Speaker 3>some Americans.

0:18:14.447 --> 0:18:17.607
<v Speaker 1>Feel, and just yeah, it plays for him.

0:18:18.527 --> 0:18:21.087
<v Speaker 3>If you feel like someone's taken your job, or you

0:18:21.167 --> 0:18:23.247
<v Speaker 3>feel like your suburb looks different to how it looked

0:18:23.287 --> 0:18:25.407
<v Speaker 3>twenty years ago, then you actually don't give a shit

0:18:25.447 --> 0:18:27.487
<v Speaker 3>whether a real cat or a real dog was killed

0:18:27.527 --> 0:18:29.807
<v Speaker 3>or eaten. You're just like, yeah, that man knows how

0:18:29.807 --> 0:18:32.727
<v Speaker 3>I feel, which is even more kind of sinister.

0:18:46.247 --> 0:18:50.007
<v Speaker 8>Scary. I heard someone walking around, You're right. I was

0:18:50.087 --> 0:18:54.887
<v Speaker 8>just I was just thirsty, thirsty. Don't you have a

0:18:54.967 --> 0:19:00.087
<v Speaker 8>graph by your bed? I I forgot. Are you sure

0:19:00.127 --> 0:19:03.367
<v Speaker 8>there wasn't something else you were looking for? Because I

0:19:03.407 --> 0:19:06.167
<v Speaker 8>hate you to be sneaking around. I mean, if you

0:19:06.207 --> 0:19:07.767
<v Speaker 8>want something, just ask.

0:19:08.047 --> 0:19:11.327
<v Speaker 1>Like many of you. The weekend binge watching Nicole Kidman's

0:19:11.407 --> 0:19:15.087
<v Speaker 1>latest series, The Perfect Couple on Netflix, and what everybody's

0:19:15.127 --> 0:19:17.567
<v Speaker 1>talking about is how similar it is to so many

0:19:17.687 --> 0:19:21.327
<v Speaker 1>other Nicole Kidman TV series from the past few years,

0:19:22.087 --> 0:19:25.727
<v Speaker 1>because she seems to keep playing a rich, cold, murder adjacent,

0:19:25.767 --> 0:19:28.727
<v Speaker 1>ambitious mother who looks like she's thirty two while wearing

0:19:28.727 --> 0:19:31.767
<v Speaker 1>a series of quality wigs and living beside large bodies

0:19:31.807 --> 0:19:35.527
<v Speaker 1>of water. You may remember that vibe from Big Little Eyes,

0:19:36.047 --> 0:19:39.567
<v Speaker 1>Nine Perfect Strangers, The Undoing, a Family Affair, and now

0:19:39.767 --> 0:19:42.047
<v Speaker 1>The Perfect Couple, and I should say a Family Affair

0:19:42.087 --> 0:19:44.607
<v Speaker 1>didn't have a murder in it, but her character was

0:19:44.767 --> 0:19:47.607
<v Speaker 1>oddly spookily similar to the one she plays in The

0:19:47.607 --> 0:19:52.687
<v Speaker 1>Perfect Couple. They were both hugely successful authors grappling with

0:19:52.727 --> 0:19:55.527
<v Speaker 1>issues around sex and love and what it means to

0:19:55.647 --> 0:19:59.087
<v Speaker 1>parent your adult children and all the rest of those

0:19:59.087 --> 0:20:01.527
<v Speaker 1>shows like The Perfect Couple do hinge around a murder

0:20:01.567 --> 0:20:04.847
<v Speaker 1>that's revealed in the first episode. It's definitely giving white

0:20:04.887 --> 0:20:08.127
<v Speaker 1>lotus and lots of people have remarked on the similarity

0:20:08.127 --> 0:20:11.367
<v Speaker 1>between White lotus The Perfect Couple. We'll be doing a

0:20:11.367 --> 0:20:14.967
<v Speaker 1>full subscriber review of the whole series with all our

0:20:14.967 --> 0:20:16.647
<v Speaker 1>thoughts in the next few days, but today we want

0:20:16.687 --> 0:20:21.327
<v Speaker 1>to unpack this idea of Nicole's era and the idea

0:20:21.367 --> 0:20:25.007
<v Speaker 1>that it's a pretty interesting career decision to choose so

0:20:25.127 --> 0:20:28.287
<v Speaker 1>many roles that are the same whole What do you

0:20:28.287 --> 0:20:30.407
<v Speaker 1>think is going on with that? Is it a deliberate

0:20:30.447 --> 0:20:33.887
<v Speaker 1>strategy or she just likes playing those women? I don't know.

0:20:33.967 --> 0:20:35.527
<v Speaker 2>I mean, one of the things I think about the

0:20:35.527 --> 0:20:38.207
<v Speaker 2>fact that all these sort of TV ones have come

0:20:38.207 --> 0:20:40.647
<v Speaker 2>out at the same time, because she also has a

0:20:40.687 --> 0:20:43.087
<v Speaker 2>movie coming out, which is supposed to be very Venice

0:20:43.127 --> 0:20:47.047
<v Speaker 2>Film Festival, very arty, very award bab Baby Girl, Baby Girl.

0:20:47.487 --> 0:20:49.367
<v Speaker 2>Is Is it some kind of hangover from the strike,

0:20:49.407 --> 0:20:52.247
<v Speaker 2>because it's like, all of a sudden, just all these vehicles,

0:20:52.247 --> 0:20:54.687
<v Speaker 2>no one's working harder than Nicole. Kidman, it feels like

0:20:54.767 --> 0:20:55.687
<v Speaker 2>at the moment, doesn't it.

0:20:55.727 --> 0:20:55.847
<v Speaker 8>Well.

0:20:55.887 --> 0:20:58.447
<v Speaker 1>They did say that this series, The Perfect Couple was

0:20:58.487 --> 0:21:00.807
<v Speaker 1>meant to be filmed over six weeks, which is still

0:21:00.807 --> 0:21:03.687
<v Speaker 1>a pretty short shoot given it with six episodes. But

0:21:03.767 --> 0:21:05.687
<v Speaker 1>they had to condense it because of the writer's strike

0:21:05.727 --> 0:21:08.047
<v Speaker 1>to just three weeks. It was filmed in three weeks,

0:21:08.047 --> 0:21:10.367
<v Speaker 1>three ways wow, six hours of TV.

0:21:10.647 --> 0:21:12.287
<v Speaker 2>One of the things that I was thinking when I

0:21:12.327 --> 0:21:15.047
<v Speaker 2>was watching it is that, you know how people have

0:21:15.087 --> 0:21:17.087
<v Speaker 2>always said, what are the roles for women over a

0:21:17.127 --> 0:21:19.967
<v Speaker 2>certain age in Hollywood? There are now more roles for

0:21:20.007 --> 0:21:21.807
<v Speaker 2>women over a certain age in Hollywood, but they are

0:21:21.927 --> 0:21:22.967
<v Speaker 2>very specific ones.

0:21:23.727 --> 0:21:25.087
<v Speaker 1>How would you describe the thing that.

0:21:25.087 --> 0:21:30.007
<v Speaker 2>Kidman can't do anymore is she can't do ordinary person.

0:21:30.327 --> 0:21:34.607
<v Speaker 2>So if you think about, say, Kate Winslett playing Mayor

0:21:34.647 --> 0:21:37.047
<v Speaker 2>of Eastown, I can't remember what the character's actual name was,

0:21:37.167 --> 0:21:39.927
<v Speaker 2>Mayor the detective. It was detective. It was a few

0:21:40.007 --> 0:21:42.447
<v Speaker 2>years ago now, but it was an absolute and everybody

0:21:42.607 --> 0:21:45.487
<v Speaker 2>was like, she's so brave because she looks so normal

0:21:45.567 --> 0:21:48.687
<v Speaker 2>and so unlike a movie star and all that because

0:21:48.687 --> 0:21:51.247
<v Speaker 2>she was playing a small town cop who was deep

0:21:51.287 --> 0:21:53.487
<v Speaker 2>in grief and didn't have time to get her roots done.

0:21:54.007 --> 0:21:57.127
<v Speaker 2>Nicole Kidman can't play those roles anymore because of the

0:21:57.247 --> 0:21:59.887
<v Speaker 2>esthetic choices she's made about her face, which are entirely

0:21:59.887 --> 0:22:03.647
<v Speaker 2>her business, mean that she is now perfectly positioned to

0:22:03.727 --> 0:22:06.487
<v Speaker 2>play a certain type of rich, older woman who would

0:22:06.487 --> 0:22:07.807
<v Speaker 2>have also made those choices.

0:22:07.967 --> 0:22:11.527
<v Speaker 1>But you say that she didn't look that different back

0:22:11.527 --> 0:22:13.647
<v Speaker 1>in the day when she was in the hours, and

0:22:13.647 --> 0:22:17.487
<v Speaker 1>that's ironically, or maybe not ironically, what she married Mioska

0:22:17.527 --> 0:22:19.327
<v Speaker 1>for you think, I mean she wore a prosthetic nose

0:22:19.367 --> 0:22:20.807
<v Speaker 1>for that and as sort of a gray wig where

0:22:20.847 --> 0:22:23.807
<v Speaker 1>she played Virginia Wolf. You're right, she does look different now.

0:22:23.847 --> 0:22:27.527
<v Speaker 1>But what's interesting is when we've been involved with Strive,

0:22:28.607 --> 0:22:32.127
<v Speaker 1>you do think about, oh, this character and is it

0:22:32.167 --> 0:22:35.407
<v Speaker 1>too similar to other characters that they've played, and should

0:22:35.487 --> 0:22:38.567
<v Speaker 1>we cast this person because I mean, obviously not the

0:22:38.567 --> 0:22:40.847
<v Speaker 1>main character, but some of the characters have they played

0:22:40.887 --> 0:22:44.407
<v Speaker 1>something similar in something else that's coming out around that time.

0:22:44.847 --> 0:22:48.167
<v Speaker 3>When you are Nicole Kidman, you're the boss, I think

0:22:48.327 --> 0:22:50.207
<v Speaker 3>you get to decide what projects you do.

0:22:50.287 --> 0:22:51.367
<v Speaker 1>And she's produced a lot of that.

0:22:51.447 --> 0:22:53.527
<v Speaker 3>And she's produced a lot. What we don't see a

0:22:53.527 --> 0:22:56.767
<v Speaker 3>lot of is women or people who can work as

0:22:56.847 --> 0:22:59.087
<v Speaker 3>much as Nicole Kidman wanting to work as much as

0:22:59.167 --> 0:23:00.567
<v Speaker 3>Nicole Kidman, like she.

0:23:00.727 --> 0:23:02.687
<v Speaker 1>Must love work.

0:23:02.967 --> 0:23:06.727
<v Speaker 3>I was looking at her IMDb profile and she has

0:23:06.887 --> 0:23:09.087
<v Speaker 3>ninety seven credits to her name, and I kept going

0:23:09.087 --> 0:23:11.447
<v Speaker 3>back going. No, but there's been a recent explosion of

0:23:11.527 --> 0:23:16.287
<v Speaker 3>Nicole Kidman. No, there hasn't. That woman has consistently worked

0:23:16.927 --> 0:23:19.327
<v Speaker 3>for what twenty five thirty year is something like interesting.

0:23:19.407 --> 0:23:20.287
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, she clearly does.

0:23:20.207 --> 0:23:20.447
<v Speaker 8>Love that.

0:23:22.047 --> 0:23:25.007
<v Speaker 2>Because I'm fascinated by ambition. What happens to ambition as

0:23:25.007 --> 0:23:28.047
<v Speaker 2>you get older, too, because you know, a more traditional

0:23:28.087 --> 0:23:31.727
<v Speaker 2>trajectory is you go so hard to establish yourself and

0:23:31.767 --> 0:23:34.047
<v Speaker 2>then you get really picky. I'm now at a point

0:23:34.247 --> 0:23:37.127
<v Speaker 2>not me Nicole Kidman. I'm being Nicole Kidman in the enpoyment.

0:23:37.807 --> 0:23:39.847
<v Speaker 2>I can entirely pick and choose. I don't have to

0:23:39.847 --> 0:23:41.647
<v Speaker 2>do any job to pay the mortgage. I don't have

0:23:41.687 --> 0:23:44.487
<v Speaker 2>to do any job to keep myself in the spotlight.

0:23:44.567 --> 0:23:47.687
<v Speaker 2>Because she's Nicole Kidman, the drive in her to love

0:23:47.687 --> 0:23:49.887
<v Speaker 2>what she does is clearly not slowed down at all.

0:23:49.927 --> 0:23:52.447
<v Speaker 2>She could be on her ranch in Nashville, or at

0:23:52.447 --> 0:23:54.847
<v Speaker 2>her farm in the Southern Highlands here, or kicking back

0:23:54.887 --> 0:23:56.647
<v Speaker 2>on a beach in Hawaii for nine months of the

0:23:56.727 --> 0:23:59.127
<v Speaker 2>year and do one project. But she does not want to,

0:23:59.247 --> 0:24:00.647
<v Speaker 2>And I find that really interesting.

0:24:00.767 --> 0:24:03.527
<v Speaker 3>In twenty nineteen, she was ranked as the fourth highest

0:24:03.527 --> 0:24:05.847
<v Speaker 3>paid actress in the world, with an annual income of

0:24:05.887 --> 0:24:09.407
<v Speaker 3>thirty four million dollars, so she is very, very rich.

0:24:09.927 --> 0:24:12.247
<v Speaker 3>So in the last ten years she's done thirty projects,

0:24:12.287 --> 0:24:14.567
<v Speaker 3>and you think like you've got your big little lies,

0:24:14.607 --> 0:24:18.007
<v Speaker 3>you've got your nine perfect strangers. And that's actually on

0:24:18.247 --> 0:24:21.687
<v Speaker 3>part with two other women of her era. You've got

0:24:21.767 --> 0:24:24.327
<v Speaker 3>Kate Winslet, she's done about thirty, and you've got Kate Blanchett,

0:24:24.327 --> 0:24:28.367
<v Speaker 3>who's also done about thirty. The difference with Nicole Kidman

0:24:29.207 --> 0:24:31.847
<v Speaker 3>is there's this brilliant article written on Slate with the

0:24:31.887 --> 0:24:35.647
<v Speaker 3>headline Nicole Kidman's Beach reads Cinematic Universe, and they say

0:24:35.687 --> 0:24:38.647
<v Speaker 3>it's like the Marvel Universe, where like all the characters

0:24:38.767 --> 0:24:41.567
<v Speaker 3>could possibly be related slash the same characters.

0:24:41.607 --> 0:24:44.567
<v Speaker 1>They literally wear the same clothes. She wears the same wigs.

0:24:44.807 --> 0:24:47.767
<v Speaker 1>She always is sort of like looking wistfully out to see.

0:24:47.807 --> 0:24:50.127
<v Speaker 3>There's a lot of huffing. There's a lot of sighing,

0:24:51.167 --> 0:24:54.087
<v Speaker 3>which is a a state pawn exactly. They say, it's

0:24:54.207 --> 0:24:57.447
<v Speaker 3>kind of like the depressed wine Mum, but like that

0:24:57.647 --> 0:25:01.167
<v Speaker 3>artifice coming undone. So it's like the opening of this

0:25:01.207 --> 0:25:03.847
<v Speaker 3>Slate article is so good. It's like watching the Perfect Couple.

0:25:04.007 --> 0:25:06.327
<v Speaker 3>You kind of go. Wait, didn't we already watch this

0:25:06.607 --> 0:25:09.767
<v Speaker 3>in a scenic coastal location. No, that was big lit lies.

0:25:10.087 --> 0:25:12.607
<v Speaker 3>She's playing a wealthy New Yorker who's adulterous husband may

0:25:12.687 --> 0:25:14.567
<v Speaker 3>or may not have committed murder. Wait, No, that's the

0:25:14.647 --> 0:25:16.927
<v Speaker 3>undoing and it just goes through and there's like six

0:25:17.007 --> 0:25:19.847
<v Speaker 3>that you go, these are all the same thing. And

0:25:19.927 --> 0:25:22.487
<v Speaker 3>one theory is that maybe she's not trying to prove

0:25:22.527 --> 0:25:25.007
<v Speaker 3>herself anymore because she's always gone through eras in her

0:25:25.047 --> 0:25:28.527
<v Speaker 3>career where she's played like complicated mothers or like her

0:25:28.567 --> 0:25:30.647
<v Speaker 3>divorce film was More and Rouge, and they kind of

0:25:30.687 --> 0:25:34.167
<v Speaker 3>go through and see it. But if Nicole Kidman just

0:25:34.207 --> 0:25:37.327
<v Speaker 3>wants to work and she gets a druckload of money

0:25:37.727 --> 0:25:40.327
<v Speaker 3>to go and be a depressed wine mum in Nantucket

0:25:40.367 --> 0:25:43.727
<v Speaker 3>for three weeks, fuck take it. Like there's this theory

0:25:43.727 --> 0:25:45.607
<v Speaker 3>in Hollywood that it's like one for them, one for me,

0:25:45.927 --> 0:25:48.367
<v Speaker 3>Like is she just doing that paying the bills and

0:25:48.407 --> 0:25:50.847
<v Speaker 3>then going and doing some passion project like maybe the

0:25:50.887 --> 0:25:52.367
<v Speaker 3>one she won the baby Girl?

0:25:52.447 --> 0:25:54.727
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, maybe she loves it, because one thing you could

0:25:54.847 --> 0:25:56.727
<v Speaker 2>argue is that another thing that all those things have

0:25:56.807 --> 0:25:59.407
<v Speaker 2>in common is that massive hits, big, little lies, the

0:25:59.487 --> 0:26:03.807
<v Speaker 2>undoing this like everybody's talking about the perfect couple. I've

0:26:03.967 --> 0:26:06.487
<v Speaker 2>started watching it against my will because me have told

0:26:06.487 --> 0:26:11.287
<v Speaker 2>me I should. Yeah, and im in exactly nowhere there

0:26:11.327 --> 0:26:12.767
<v Speaker 2>as good as Big Little Eyes. I'm sorry.

0:26:12.927 --> 0:26:13.847
<v Speaker 1>People should stop.

0:26:13.687 --> 0:26:15.487
<v Speaker 2>Comparing it to that. There's nowhere near that good. But

0:26:15.527 --> 0:26:18.167
<v Speaker 2>it's really good. It's really fun. And so she obviously

0:26:18.247 --> 0:26:20.447
<v Speaker 2>knows what women want to watch, right, yeah, because we're

0:26:20.447 --> 0:26:21.167
<v Speaker 2>all watching it.

0:26:21.287 --> 0:26:23.407
<v Speaker 1>So I think that's a really interesting idea that it's

0:26:23.487 --> 0:26:27.247
<v Speaker 1>not a flaw, it's a feature. So it's not oh whoops,

0:26:27.367 --> 0:26:30.887
<v Speaker 1>the characters are all similar, it's she knows that this

0:26:31.047 --> 0:26:34.287
<v Speaker 1>is what people want to see her be in the

0:26:34.327 --> 0:26:37.407
<v Speaker 1>same way that you know, Tom Cruise just only does

0:26:37.447 --> 0:26:39.487
<v Speaker 1>films where he's jumping out of planes, Like he only

0:26:39.567 --> 0:26:42.127
<v Speaker 1>plays one character. Remember when he did Born of the

0:26:42.167 --> 0:26:44.487
<v Speaker 1>Fourth of July and he did Magnolia, and he was

0:26:44.487 --> 0:26:47.607
<v Speaker 1>making some interesting choices sort of twenty years ago, and

0:26:47.647 --> 0:26:50.007
<v Speaker 1>then it's almost like he decided, no, I'm going to

0:26:50.007 --> 0:26:52.087
<v Speaker 1>give the people what they want, which is me being

0:26:52.167 --> 0:26:54.927
<v Speaker 1>a stunt guy and jumping out of planes. And it's

0:26:54.927 --> 0:26:57.487
<v Speaker 1>almost like she's kind of done the same thing. Whereas

0:26:57.527 --> 0:27:01.007
<v Speaker 1>you look at Kate Winslet and Kate Blanchette, for example,

0:27:01.727 --> 0:27:04.607
<v Speaker 1>And I probably couldn't tell you those thirty projects that

0:27:04.607 --> 0:27:08.247
<v Speaker 1>they've each done because they've been so varied and they

0:27:08.287 --> 0:27:10.887
<v Speaker 1>haven't been as commercially successful as Nichole's.

0:27:11.087 --> 0:27:13.527
<v Speaker 2>Kitmun does do some risky things. I think Baby Girl

0:27:13.567 --> 0:27:15.367
<v Speaker 2>is meant to be risky, and she went through a

0:27:15.447 --> 0:27:19.207
<v Speaker 2>real art house phase. She really did, but it's almost

0:27:19.247 --> 0:27:20.287
<v Speaker 2>like she's left it behind.

0:27:20.367 --> 0:27:22.407
<v Speaker 1>She's meant to be amazing in Baby Girl, but when

0:27:22.407 --> 0:27:26.247
<v Speaker 1>you say risky, she's not putting on a prosthetic nose

0:27:26.527 --> 0:27:32.167
<v Speaker 1>and not plucking her eyebrows, and.

0:27:31.687 --> 0:27:33.287
<v Speaker 2>More to being risky than what you look like.

0:27:33.447 --> 0:27:33.687
<v Speaker 7>Right?

0:27:34.007 --> 0:27:37.287
<v Speaker 2>Is it risky material? Controversial? Material? Difficult?

0:27:37.767 --> 0:27:42.007
<v Speaker 1>I would argue, is it risky for a woman of

0:27:42.047 --> 0:27:44.247
<v Speaker 1>her age to look her age? Because of course, one

0:27:44.247 --> 0:27:46.287
<v Speaker 1>of the things that's kind of disconcerting in this is

0:27:46.327 --> 0:27:49.727
<v Speaker 1>that she's meant to be the matriarch with three adult children,

0:27:49.927 --> 0:27:53.247
<v Speaker 1>which would put her in her fifties, which is and

0:27:53.327 --> 0:27:56.527
<v Speaker 1>yet she looks younger, a lot younger than the young women.

0:27:56.687 --> 0:27:57.527
<v Speaker 1>I disagree.

0:27:57.727 --> 0:28:00.687
<v Speaker 2>I think that it's perfect casting. The character she's playing

0:28:00.687 --> 0:28:03.207
<v Speaker 2>would look like that. That's true, and so as to my

0:28:03.247 --> 0:28:06.607
<v Speaker 2>point before, she doesn't look like a small town cop

0:28:06.647 --> 0:28:10.367
<v Speaker 2>with no money, but she looks exactly like a very successful,

0:28:10.607 --> 0:28:13.807
<v Speaker 2>you know, waspy author with a munchin on Nantucket. That

0:28:13.967 --> 0:28:16.007
<v Speaker 2>is what she would look like. So I think that,

0:28:16.607 --> 0:28:19.607
<v Speaker 2>as I say, the choices she's made allow her to

0:28:19.647 --> 0:28:22.047
<v Speaker 2>play a very certain kind of older woman who does

0:28:22.127 --> 0:28:22.727
<v Speaker 2>look like that.

0:28:22.807 --> 0:28:24.407
<v Speaker 1>So isn't the same as you know, how when an

0:28:24.447 --> 0:28:27.927
<v Speaker 1>author has a bestseller, all of their book covers look

0:28:27.967 --> 0:28:30.447
<v Speaker 1>a bit the same, like Lisa Jule for example, Oh

0:28:30.527 --> 0:28:33.967
<v Speaker 1>you've got to look and vibe for your novels. And

0:28:34.087 --> 0:28:37.367
<v Speaker 1>is that because it's like, oh, I like Nicole Kidman,

0:28:37.487 --> 0:28:39.087
<v Speaker 1>and it's like more of the same. It's if you

0:28:39.167 --> 0:28:41.687
<v Speaker 1>liked Big Little Lies, if you like Nine Perfect Strangers,

0:28:41.807 --> 0:28:42.847
<v Speaker 1>if you like the undoing.

0:28:43.567 --> 0:28:46.847
<v Speaker 3>This just feels like also we're seeing the boom of

0:28:47.167 --> 0:28:50.887
<v Speaker 3>female fiction, which is very new. And the thing about

0:28:50.967 --> 0:28:54.447
<v Speaker 3>contemporary women's fiction is that it also isn't about twenty

0:28:54.527 --> 0:28:56.807
<v Speaker 3>year olds anymore like Big Little Lies. Was a real

0:28:56.967 --> 0:28:59.687
<v Speaker 3>kind of shift in that, and Leanne Moriarty is almost

0:28:59.687 --> 0:29:03.407
<v Speaker 3>synonymous with Nicole Kidman at this point. They obviously did

0:29:03.567 --> 0:29:06.047
<v Speaker 3>Nine Perfect Strangers, and now they're doing what Alice forgot,

0:29:06.087 --> 0:29:07.887
<v Speaker 3>I think is the next one. And I think she's

0:29:07.887 --> 0:29:11.287
<v Speaker 3>attached herself to the those sorts of projects, and so

0:29:11.327 --> 0:29:15.287
<v Speaker 3>she's done the damsel in distress or like the Witch.

0:29:15.527 --> 0:29:18.807
<v Speaker 3>She's done romance. She's done a bunch of stuff. This

0:29:19.007 --> 0:29:21.487
<v Speaker 3>is a current cliche, and this is what the slight

0:29:21.607 --> 0:29:25.007
<v Speaker 3>article said that she's leaning into only to invert it.

0:29:25.247 --> 0:29:27.887
<v Speaker 3>Sometimes I'm not fully seeing the inversion of the cliche.

0:29:27.967 --> 0:29:30.047
<v Speaker 3>To be honest, there's a few two dimensional I really

0:29:30.087 --> 0:29:32.967
<v Speaker 3>struggled with that in A Family Affair where I went

0:29:33.807 --> 0:29:36.687
<v Speaker 3>what's difficult is when you know what Nicole Kidman is

0:29:36.727 --> 0:29:39.127
<v Speaker 3>capable of. She's one of the best actresses alive.

0:29:39.327 --> 0:29:42.247
<v Speaker 1>There were some real glimpses of it in this. Yeah,

0:29:42.407 --> 0:29:43.287
<v Speaker 1>I found even.

0:29:43.127 --> 0:29:45.047
<v Speaker 2>In the first episode. I think she's great in it.

0:29:45.167 --> 0:29:46.567
<v Speaker 3>I'm not understanding the accent.

0:29:47.047 --> 0:29:47.327
<v Speaker 4>This is.

0:29:47.567 --> 0:29:49.327
<v Speaker 1>This is something that's happened with a British accent.

0:29:49.367 --> 0:29:50.887
<v Speaker 2>I don't English accent.

0:29:50.967 --> 0:29:52.847
<v Speaker 3>In the last two shows she's done, she has a

0:29:52.887 --> 0:29:55.207
<v Speaker 3>completely different accent to the rest of her family, which

0:29:55.287 --> 0:29:55.967
<v Speaker 3>isn't offul well.

0:29:56.007 --> 0:29:59.607
<v Speaker 1>No, she's Australian in the last one in a Family Affair,

0:29:59.687 --> 0:30:01.047
<v Speaker 1>and she's a brit in this one.

0:30:01.167 --> 0:30:02.967
<v Speaker 3>Why isn't she just doing an American accent?

0:30:03.007 --> 0:30:03.687
<v Speaker 2>It's distracting.

0:30:05.487 --> 0:30:09.127
<v Speaker 1>I think great in the perfect contest nd a normal accent.

0:30:10.087 --> 0:30:12.447
<v Speaker 1>Now that as we will be talking about this, stay

0:30:12.447 --> 0:30:15.367
<v Speaker 1>tuned for an upcoming subscriber episode. You can watch this

0:30:15.407 --> 0:30:19.887
<v Speaker 1>on Netflix Really good, easily bingeable, six hours, go hard.

0:30:21.847 --> 0:30:25.847
<v Speaker 3>One, unlimited out loud access. We drop episodes every Tuesday

0:30:25.847 --> 0:30:30.087
<v Speaker 3>and Thursday exclusively from Mum and MEA subscribers follow the

0:30:30.127 --> 0:30:32.007
<v Speaker 3>link in the show notes to get us in your

0:30:32.007 --> 0:30:34.847
<v Speaker 3>ears five days a week, and a huge thank you

0:30:35.007 --> 0:30:44.687
<v Speaker 3>to all our current subscribers. Period tracking, cycle sinking, femtech

0:30:44.807 --> 0:30:48.767
<v Speaker 3>and meno washing. Has capitalism finally weaseled its way into

0:30:48.767 --> 0:30:52.127
<v Speaker 3>my ovaries. There's a few things going on here, and

0:30:52.167 --> 0:30:54.447
<v Speaker 3>I want to start with an experience I had last week.

0:30:54.967 --> 0:30:56.807
<v Speaker 3>My husband was out with a bunch of friends and

0:30:56.847 --> 0:30:59.127
<v Speaker 3>I got a message from him saying, my friend has

0:30:59.127 --> 0:31:02.207
<v Speaker 3>the flow app on his phone that tracks his girlfriend's cycle.

0:31:02.607 --> 0:31:05.887
<v Speaker 3>Maybe we should do this, and I promptly replied, fuck off.

0:31:07.247 --> 0:31:09.207
<v Speaker 3>To be clear, this isn't It's not about baby make

0:31:09.807 --> 0:31:12.967
<v Speaker 3>It's about working out. When I am pre menstrul do

0:31:13.167 --> 0:31:14.087
<v Speaker 3>I get perms?

0:31:14.607 --> 0:31:15.287
<v Speaker 1>Absolutely?

0:31:15.847 --> 0:31:18.967
<v Speaker 3>Is that information I would like to share with my partner. No,

0:31:19.487 --> 0:31:20.807
<v Speaker 3>I like to keep them Onney's toast.

0:31:21.007 --> 0:31:23.847
<v Speaker 1>Why I would like everybody if I still had a cycle,

0:31:23.847 --> 0:31:25.447
<v Speaker 1>I would like everybody to know what it was.

0:31:25.527 --> 0:31:30.127
<v Speaker 3>Now it's to mining. Oh my goodness, it's so onto mining.

0:31:30.167 --> 0:31:33.207
<v Speaker 3>And this isn't just about period tracking. It has some

0:31:33.367 --> 0:31:36.967
<v Speaker 3>incredible benefits. It can anticipate symptoms, it compiles health data,

0:31:37.007 --> 0:31:39.967
<v Speaker 3>and it can potentially assist with the diagnosis of things

0:31:39.967 --> 0:31:44.287
<v Speaker 3>like PCOS or endo. This about an industry because everywhere

0:31:44.327 --> 0:31:47.607
<v Speaker 3>I look, I am being sold something like cycle sinking

0:31:47.767 --> 0:31:50.967
<v Speaker 3>exercise regimes. Have you guys seen this? Yeah, no, okay,

0:31:51.007 --> 0:31:54.167
<v Speaker 3>big in my world. It's probably because you're perry, so

0:31:54.167 --> 0:31:57.007
<v Speaker 3>they're just like, she's a right off, I'm met her now, Yeah, exactly.

0:31:57.647 --> 0:31:59.807
<v Speaker 3>So your algorithms, No, you don't need it, but it's

0:31:59.847 --> 0:32:03.567
<v Speaker 3>where your exercise regime is based on where you are

0:32:03.567 --> 0:32:07.047
<v Speaker 3>in your cycle, so you know, when you're on new period,

0:32:07.087 --> 0:32:08.687
<v Speaker 3>you shouldn't do this, but you should do more of

0:32:08.687 --> 0:32:11.727
<v Speaker 3>this or whatever. Yeah, there's fertility courses, there are new

0:32:11.767 --> 0:32:14.527
<v Speaker 3>gadgets to assist with period pain. There's moon caups and

0:32:14.527 --> 0:32:17.327
<v Speaker 3>period undies. There's a new industry that a lot of

0:32:17.407 --> 0:32:20.727
<v Speaker 3>experts are now riding about and it's being referred to

0:32:20.727 --> 0:32:24.367
<v Speaker 3>as the absolute gold rush of menopause. So in the UK,

0:32:24.487 --> 0:32:29.327
<v Speaker 3>for example, Tesco has announced it's trialing menopause friendly aisles

0:32:29.367 --> 0:32:32.367
<v Speaker 3>in stores and it's got skincare and vitamins and special

0:32:32.367 --> 0:32:33.607
<v Speaker 3>pads for ladies.

0:32:33.607 --> 0:32:36.007
<v Speaker 2>They've worked out that the older ladies have the money.

0:32:36.127 --> 0:32:36.967
<v Speaker 3>Yeah exactly.

0:32:37.207 --> 0:32:39.607
<v Speaker 1>There also be no people in that aisle, so true,

0:32:39.727 --> 0:32:41.007
<v Speaker 1>people are bloody annoying.

0:32:41.447 --> 0:32:44.367
<v Speaker 3>I want to know, are we all being taken for

0:32:44.407 --> 0:32:48.367
<v Speaker 3>a ride or should we be excited that whole new

0:32:48.407 --> 0:32:51.847
<v Speaker 3>industries are being funded to cater to our needs?

0:32:52.007 --> 0:32:55.207
<v Speaker 1>Both okay, both yes and yes. And there are a

0:32:55.207 --> 0:32:58.727
<v Speaker 1>lot of people who are launching whole brands for menopause

0:32:58.727 --> 0:33:00.887
<v Speaker 1>and women like Naomi Watts has got a brand called

0:33:00.927 --> 0:33:06.007
<v Speaker 1>Stripes that does everything from lubricant for vaginal dryness to

0:33:07.047 --> 0:33:09.727
<v Speaker 1>shampoo and yeah fake so I can run.

0:33:09.847 --> 0:33:12.967
<v Speaker 3>I mean, that's genuinely something that is a symptom of

0:33:13.007 --> 0:33:14.927
<v Speaker 3>that period of your life. So that's solving a problem

0:33:14.927 --> 0:33:16.007
<v Speaker 3>that exists, right.

0:33:15.887 --> 0:33:18.367
<v Speaker 1>But what I think so lovely about it? And I

0:33:18.447 --> 0:33:21.687
<v Speaker 1>take your point, but like capitalism is always sold to women.

0:33:22.087 --> 0:33:25.607
<v Speaker 1>Thanks for including us and not ignoring us, because I

0:33:25.727 --> 0:33:28.487
<v Speaker 1>much prefer being sold to as a woman of my

0:33:28.607 --> 0:33:32.047
<v Speaker 1>age then products being sold to me by twenty year

0:33:32.087 --> 0:33:36.407
<v Speaker 1>olds who are advertising anti wrinkle creams, Like, thanks at

0:33:36.487 --> 0:33:39.687
<v Speaker 1>least for acknowledging that I exist. And there are certain

0:33:39.727 --> 0:33:43.287
<v Speaker 1>things that are specific about being this age.

0:33:43.327 --> 0:33:44.927
<v Speaker 3>How about a tea? Do you need a special tea?

0:33:45.167 --> 0:33:47.967
<v Speaker 1>Well, no, I don't need a special tea, but if

0:33:48.007 --> 0:33:52.007
<v Speaker 1>someone finds that tea nice. What's the most important thing

0:33:52.047 --> 0:33:54.567
<v Speaker 1>for women is information, not products, to be honest, and

0:33:54.607 --> 0:33:56.807
<v Speaker 1>that's where we sit and that's why we had the

0:33:56.927 --> 0:33:59.527
<v Speaker 1>Very Pery Summit and why we'll be doing more around

0:33:59.527 --> 0:34:03.047
<v Speaker 1>that next year because women need information. Do they need

0:34:03.087 --> 0:34:05.167
<v Speaker 1>to buy products? I would argue that they need to

0:34:05.247 --> 0:34:09.407
<v Speaker 1>know whether or not they should use HIT and whether

0:34:09.567 --> 0:34:11.407
<v Speaker 1>or not there are certain things that they might just

0:34:11.447 --> 0:34:13.567
<v Speaker 1>think are just them. They might just think that their

0:34:13.647 --> 0:34:16.807
<v Speaker 1>vaginal dryness or their skin dryness, or their ezatia is

0:34:17.047 --> 0:34:20.567
<v Speaker 1>just them, or their weight game or their forgetfulness. They

0:34:20.727 --> 0:34:23.087
<v Speaker 1>might not understand what it is. And by telling them, hey,

0:34:23.167 --> 0:34:26.807
<v Speaker 1>all these random seeming symptoms they're all connected. They're all

0:34:26.847 --> 0:34:30.927
<v Speaker 1>because you're lacking estrogen and your body's going through reverth puberty.

0:34:31.327 --> 0:34:35.927
<v Speaker 1>It's like, Oh, it's very normalizing now. Whether you choose

0:34:36.167 --> 0:34:39.647
<v Speaker 1>to buy products to treat those things or not is

0:34:39.687 --> 0:34:42.167
<v Speaker 1>then up to you. But the most important thing is

0:34:42.167 --> 0:34:44.207
<v Speaker 1>the information. I agree with me or on this.

0:34:44.727 --> 0:34:46.687
<v Speaker 2>But I want to go back to the variot tracking

0:34:46.727 --> 0:34:49.047
<v Speaker 2>app and though whether or not your partners should.

0:34:48.807 --> 0:34:51.687
<v Speaker 1>Have oh to your worst nightmare whole that's terrible.

0:34:52.047 --> 0:34:53.687
<v Speaker 2>I can't believe that's terrible.

0:34:53.727 --> 0:34:55.567
<v Speaker 1>Can you guys explain to me why it's terrible?

0:34:55.767 --> 0:34:57.527
<v Speaker 2>This is what I would think. I don't know. I

0:34:57.527 --> 0:35:00.287
<v Speaker 2>can't speak for Jess. She'll speak for herself. The problem

0:35:00.327 --> 0:35:03.127
<v Speaker 2>with your partner and the people around you, and your

0:35:03.167 --> 0:35:06.687
<v Speaker 2>colleagues and whoever. Knowing that, oh, she's pmassing as it means, Oh,

0:35:06.767 --> 0:35:10.047
<v Speaker 2>I get to disregard everything you say a day.

0:35:10.247 --> 0:35:11.727
<v Speaker 1>But that's it's not.

0:35:11.607 --> 0:35:14.247
<v Speaker 2>True that your hormones are so in charge of your

0:35:14.287 --> 0:35:16.327
<v Speaker 2>life that there's no truth to any of the things.

0:35:16.447 --> 0:35:19.087
<v Speaker 1>So's there's a lot of truth exactly.

0:35:19.207 --> 0:35:22.567
<v Speaker 2>It's like if I lose my ship because you keep

0:35:22.607 --> 0:35:25.807
<v Speaker 2>putting your cup on the edge of the dishwasher instead

0:35:25.807 --> 0:35:28.687
<v Speaker 2>of putting it in the dishwasher, and I'm more likely

0:35:28.727 --> 0:35:31.047
<v Speaker 2>to lose my ship the day before my period about that.

0:35:31.127 --> 0:35:33.167
<v Speaker 1>So why wouldn't you want it doesn't mean somebody to

0:35:33.247 --> 0:35:36.167
<v Speaker 1>know that, because he'll go, oh, she's just pay messing

0:35:36.207 --> 0:35:37.687
<v Speaker 1>and not think, oh, I should put my cup in

0:35:37.687 --> 0:35:40.727
<v Speaker 1>the dishwater. See, you've clearly got awful partners, because what

0:35:40.807 --> 0:35:45.447
<v Speaker 1>I would like to believe is that my partner would go, Okay,

0:35:45.527 --> 0:35:48.447
<v Speaker 1>that's not the time to bring this up or do that.

0:35:48.567 --> 0:35:53.007
<v Speaker 1>I'm gonna treat her with some special t LC because.

0:35:53.647 --> 0:35:56.327
<v Speaker 3>Sensitive little flowers are so so we then we just

0:35:56.407 --> 0:35:58.247
<v Speaker 3>tiptoe around the crazy home.

0:36:01.447 --> 0:36:06.927
<v Speaker 1>Before period. Frankly appreciated if everybody really took a little

0:36:06.927 --> 0:36:09.167
<v Speaker 1>bit of better care of me before I have.

0:36:09.847 --> 0:36:11.647
<v Speaker 2>This is the problem with this is if there is

0:36:11.687 --> 0:36:14.847
<v Speaker 2>a tension in this that we've discussed before about that idea.

0:36:14.967 --> 0:36:16.927
<v Speaker 2>You know, it used to be where women can't be

0:36:17.207 --> 0:36:20.007
<v Speaker 2>in powerful positions because they're too emotional X amount of

0:36:20.087 --> 0:36:21.967
<v Speaker 2>days of the year. You couldn't trust the decisions that

0:36:21.967 --> 0:36:24.407
<v Speaker 2>they'd make, You couldn't trust the calls they'd make. Shouldn't

0:36:24.447 --> 0:36:26.847
<v Speaker 2>let them hire anyone, fire anyone, make any important calls

0:36:26.847 --> 0:36:29.647
<v Speaker 2>about things. Of course, there's a lot of truth and

0:36:29.727 --> 0:36:32.127
<v Speaker 2>science to hormones, and it's great that we're all learning

0:36:32.127 --> 0:36:35.047
<v Speaker 2>more about it. But this is what worries me about

0:36:35.087 --> 0:36:39.327
<v Speaker 2>us leaning so heavily into the hormonal story of our life.

0:36:39.887 --> 0:36:43.887
<v Speaker 2>It can so easily be weaponized against us. And you're right,

0:36:43.927 --> 0:36:46.607
<v Speaker 2>Mia that lovely, well meaning people won't do that. But

0:36:46.647 --> 0:36:49.047
<v Speaker 2>the world isn't full of lovely, well meaning people. And

0:36:49.127 --> 0:36:52.967
<v Speaker 2>also even if they are, those tropes are so ingrained

0:36:52.967 --> 0:36:55.767
<v Speaker 2>in our culture. This idea of like, oh, she must

0:36:55.767 --> 0:36:58.367
<v Speaker 2>be p messing if she's angry about something, rather than

0:36:58.607 --> 0:37:00.967
<v Speaker 2>maybe she's got a really valid reason to be angry

0:37:00.967 --> 0:37:03.287
<v Speaker 2>about something. We don't want to hand more of that

0:37:03.367 --> 0:37:03.807
<v Speaker 2>to people.

0:37:03.927 --> 0:37:07.447
<v Speaker 1>Well, the sort of Handmaid's tale side of this is

0:37:07.487 --> 0:37:12.047
<v Speaker 1>in America, since rovers Way was overturned, a lot of

0:37:12.087 --> 0:37:14.367
<v Speaker 1>people have been saying, you should take those apps off

0:37:14.407 --> 0:37:17.887
<v Speaker 1>your phones because they can be co opted potentially by

0:37:18.007 --> 0:37:20.367
<v Speaker 1>legislation to track your periods. I mean, that's what Project

0:37:20.407 --> 0:37:23.807
<v Speaker 1>twenty twenty five, which is this blueprint for what conservatives

0:37:23.847 --> 0:37:26.327
<v Speaker 1>want to do if Trump wins the election. It includes

0:37:26.447 --> 0:37:29.847
<v Speaker 1>women's cycles being tracked. When this sounds like something out

0:37:29.887 --> 0:37:33.487
<v Speaker 1>of a horror film, it's very dystopian, but this idea

0:37:33.527 --> 0:37:35.287
<v Speaker 1>of we do want to track women so yes, it

0:37:35.287 --> 0:37:37.767
<v Speaker 1>can be used for nefarious purposes, and we must remember that.

0:37:38.247 --> 0:37:41.327
<v Speaker 1>But one of the things I always used to find

0:37:41.447 --> 0:37:45.487
<v Speaker 1>hardest about my PMS, and also about Perry, which is

0:37:45.607 --> 0:37:49.407
<v Speaker 1>very similar in mood swings of it, was that I

0:37:49.447 --> 0:37:52.167
<v Speaker 1>would never realize that's what was going on. I would

0:37:52.287 --> 0:37:54.887
<v Speaker 1>just think that everyone was awful. My relationship was awful,

0:37:54.887 --> 0:37:57.847
<v Speaker 1>I was awful, life was awful. And sometimes I like

0:37:57.967 --> 0:38:00.807
<v Speaker 1>a third party to just give me a little reality

0:38:00.887 --> 0:38:03.927
<v Speaker 1>check and just say, hey, could be because a bit.

0:38:03.887 --> 0:38:07.327
<v Speaker 3>I think though, Just firstly on the privacy thing, I

0:38:07.367 --> 0:38:10.447
<v Speaker 3>think that's an important point because the idea too is

0:38:10.487 --> 0:38:13.367
<v Speaker 3>that if it is illegal for you to have an abortion,

0:38:13.447 --> 0:38:15.687
<v Speaker 3>then that could lead to criminal proceedings.

0:38:15.207 --> 0:38:16.207
<v Speaker 1>And use contraception.

0:38:16.447 --> 0:38:19.407
<v Speaker 3>And as part of criminal proceedings, you can get data

0:38:19.447 --> 0:38:23.447
<v Speaker 3>off someone's phone and your abortion or your pregnancy would

0:38:23.527 --> 0:38:26.127
<v Speaker 3>be logged in your phone. So that's a problem. The

0:38:26.167 --> 0:38:29.687
<v Speaker 3>other problem is sharing that data with advertisers so that

0:38:29.767 --> 0:38:32.167
<v Speaker 3>they know, oh, at this point of a cycle, she

0:38:32.287 --> 0:38:34.247
<v Speaker 3>might be more likely to buy this kind of thing

0:38:34.247 --> 0:38:36.487
<v Speaker 3>and being manipulated, which I hate all that shit.

0:38:36.607 --> 0:38:38.527
<v Speaker 1>Read the fine print before you download those apps.

0:38:38.607 --> 0:38:41.007
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, But the other thing is if I'm in my

0:38:41.047 --> 0:38:46.127
<v Speaker 3>local supermarket, and there is menopause aisles right for like,

0:38:46.447 --> 0:38:48.607
<v Speaker 3>you know, you need your special pad, and you need

0:38:48.607 --> 0:38:51.487
<v Speaker 3>your specialty and your skin care and your vitamins. And

0:38:51.527 --> 0:38:54.127
<v Speaker 3>then I walk into work and I'm working with women

0:38:54.167 --> 0:38:58.487
<v Speaker 3>who are of menopausal age. Is it not reshaping how

0:38:58.527 --> 0:39:01.967
<v Speaker 3>we see women? Like we've wanted to divorce women a

0:39:01.967 --> 0:39:04.727
<v Speaker 3>little bit from their hormones, and at a moment where

0:39:05.367 --> 0:39:08.967
<v Speaker 3>women are becoming their reproductive capacities again in a very

0:39:09.047 --> 0:39:09.967
<v Speaker 3>very dangerous way.

0:39:10.047 --> 0:39:11.167
<v Speaker 1>I just worry that these.

0:39:11.007 --> 0:39:13.647
<v Speaker 2>Two things could be I agree, I sympathize with this

0:39:13.687 --> 0:39:16.527
<v Speaker 2>because I agree with me that I think it's great

0:39:16.567 --> 0:39:20.367
<v Speaker 2>that we are much more aware now of menopause and

0:39:20.407 --> 0:39:23.367
<v Speaker 2>all the things that come along with it. But we

0:39:23.407 --> 0:39:25.647
<v Speaker 2>did an episode of mid about rage, and in it

0:39:25.687 --> 0:39:29.127
<v Speaker 2>we were discussing myself and just interparsons how there is

0:39:29.167 --> 0:39:32.687
<v Speaker 2>an element of midlife rage which is directly related to

0:39:32.687 --> 0:39:35.967
<v Speaker 2>a plunge in estrogen right there, That's true. But there

0:39:36.007 --> 0:39:40.127
<v Speaker 2>is also an element of midlife rage that's about just

0:39:40.287 --> 0:39:45.047
<v Speaker 2>having had enough of spending years and years putting yourself

0:39:45.087 --> 0:39:46.567
<v Speaker 2>at the end of a list, putting up with a

0:39:46.607 --> 0:39:49.887
<v Speaker 2>whole lot of crap, caretaking all the time living in

0:39:49.927 --> 0:39:52.807
<v Speaker 2>a world where you're often told to shush and smile

0:39:52.927 --> 0:39:55.567
<v Speaker 2>and be nice. That when women get to that place

0:39:55.607 --> 0:40:01.127
<v Speaker 2>sometimes where things boil over and they go the cliches

0:40:01.167 --> 0:40:04.047
<v Speaker 2>about older women, no folks left to give all that stuff,

0:40:04.287 --> 0:40:07.447
<v Speaker 2>there's an element of truth in that that is really important.

0:40:07.487 --> 0:40:10.047
<v Speaker 2>And I think, while it's imp I want to understand

0:40:10.087 --> 0:40:13.887
<v Speaker 2>the science, it shouldn't all be dismissed as science. It's

0:40:13.887 --> 0:40:15.607
<v Speaker 2>the same I used to feel the same way when

0:40:15.647 --> 0:40:17.927
<v Speaker 2>I was pregnant. There was a sort of strain of

0:40:17.967 --> 0:40:21.247
<v Speaker 2>being easily dismissed when you're pregnant. Baby brain. Now there

0:40:21.287 --> 0:40:24.887
<v Speaker 2>is some scientific truth to that, right, But also pregnant

0:40:24.927 --> 0:40:27.567
<v Speaker 2>women can do amazing things. They can run countries, as

0:40:27.647 --> 0:40:30.567
<v Speaker 2>just Cindra ar Durn showed us. They can certainly run businesses,

0:40:30.767 --> 0:40:33.047
<v Speaker 2>They can do all kinds of incredible things. They don't

0:40:33.087 --> 0:40:38.447
<v Speaker 2>become lobotomized idiots because their hormones are doing things. So

0:40:39.047 --> 0:40:41.487
<v Speaker 2>I agree it's a fine line to walk. It's like,

0:40:42.367 --> 0:40:44.527
<v Speaker 2>we want to be understood, we want to be empowered.

0:40:44.567 --> 0:40:47.807
<v Speaker 2>And when I was really struggling with Perry symptoms in particular,

0:40:48.367 --> 0:40:52.767
<v Speaker 2>I tried every tea, every cream, every supplement, to try

0:40:52.807 --> 0:40:54.527
<v Speaker 2>and help me with some things, and some of them

0:40:54.567 --> 0:40:57.087
<v Speaker 2>really did and some of them really didn't, and you

0:40:57.087 --> 0:40:58.607
<v Speaker 2>know that was that, and I was glad they were there.

0:40:58.607 --> 0:41:00.327
<v Speaker 2>And a lot of those are businesses started by women

0:41:00.367 --> 0:41:04.007
<v Speaker 2>who can see a gap. But it's not everything. It's

0:41:04.087 --> 0:41:06.527
<v Speaker 2>exactly where you started mere, which is like, yes, and yes,

0:41:06.647 --> 0:41:08.967
<v Speaker 2>it's great that the science is improved. It's great we've

0:41:08.967 --> 0:41:12.487
<v Speaker 2>got more awareness, but also let's not dismiss women as

0:41:12.527 --> 0:41:14.047
<v Speaker 2>just walking balls of hormones.

0:41:14.087 --> 0:41:16.607
<v Speaker 3>And it's also at the moment it's a bit the

0:41:16.607 --> 0:41:20.527
<v Speaker 3>wild West because the science and the investment in the femtech.

0:41:20.687 --> 0:41:23.687
<v Speaker 3>Like I look at the incredible explosion of devices to

0:41:23.687 --> 0:41:26.367
<v Speaker 3>help with period pain and I'm like, that's amazing. I mean,

0:41:26.727 --> 0:41:30.087
<v Speaker 3>I've been spending money on medication ever since i got

0:41:30.087 --> 0:41:32.287
<v Speaker 3>my first period, and now that you would have people

0:41:32.327 --> 0:41:34.847
<v Speaker 3>are using tens machines or they're using these heat packs

0:41:34.847 --> 0:41:38.447
<v Speaker 3>and they're trialing them. I'm like fantastic, Or like invest

0:41:38.567 --> 0:41:41.847
<v Speaker 3>in endometriosis when they test for it and they're able

0:41:41.887 --> 0:41:44.527
<v Speaker 3>to find it. But what I worry about is then

0:41:44.727 --> 0:41:47.567
<v Speaker 3>all of this stuff popping up online that's unregulated, that

0:41:47.567 --> 0:41:49.967
<v Speaker 3>a products that don't work or courses that don't work

0:41:50.367 --> 0:41:54.367
<v Speaker 3>because you've got a I guess people who are desperate

0:41:54.567 --> 0:41:57.407
<v Speaker 3>who have been ignored by medical science for most of

0:41:57.447 --> 0:41:58.247
<v Speaker 3>his way, which.

0:41:58.007 --> 0:42:01.407
<v Speaker 1>Brings us back to l and why it's important to

0:42:01.447 --> 0:42:05.807
<v Speaker 1>have responsible information from responsible sources. And that's why with

0:42:05.927 --> 0:42:08.007
<v Speaker 1>the very Peri summit that we did and that we'll

0:42:08.007 --> 0:42:10.847
<v Speaker 1>be doing it again next year, it wasn't us just

0:42:10.887 --> 0:42:14.007
<v Speaker 1>saying and getting an influencer. We brought the leading experts

0:42:14.167 --> 0:42:16.327
<v Speaker 1>from around the world to give information and what we

0:42:16.487 --> 0:42:18.967
<v Speaker 1>decided to do with that information is then up to them.

0:42:19.607 --> 0:42:24.207
<v Speaker 1>But you're presenting reputable information and no one's trying to

0:42:24.247 --> 0:42:25.807
<v Speaker 1>sell you something out loud.

0:42:25.807 --> 0:42:28.447
<v Speaker 3>As I want to know if you would feel comfortable

0:42:28.487 --> 0:42:32.527
<v Speaker 3>with partner, friends, even colleagues perhaps tracking your period. We

0:42:32.807 --> 0:42:36.007
<v Speaker 3>asked the women in the Mummeya office how they feel

0:42:36.047 --> 0:42:38.087
<v Speaker 3>about it. Most of them have tracking apps on their

0:42:38.127 --> 0:42:39.727
<v Speaker 3>phone and here is what they said.

0:42:40.927 --> 0:42:44.967
<v Speaker 5>I used the period tracker app called Glow, and I

0:42:45.007 --> 0:42:47.967
<v Speaker 5>absolutely think it'd be great if my partner had access

0:42:48.007 --> 0:42:51.487
<v Speaker 5>to this so then he could prepare for how I'm

0:42:51.487 --> 0:42:54.327
<v Speaker 5>feeling throughout the month. Apparently every month is like the

0:42:54.367 --> 0:42:58.247
<v Speaker 5>four seasons, so like winter being PMS, so it'd be

0:42:58.327 --> 0:43:00.807
<v Speaker 5>great if he knew about this and could be extra

0:43:00.967 --> 0:43:02.727
<v Speaker 5>nice and buy me things.

0:43:03.647 --> 0:43:06.487
<v Speaker 6>Look, I use a period tracking app, but I just

0:43:06.527 --> 0:43:08.487
<v Speaker 6>don't see the need for my partner to be up

0:43:08.647 --> 0:43:11.327
<v Speaker 6>all in my business in that regard. If I need something,

0:43:11.487 --> 0:43:13.727
<v Speaker 6>or I need support, or I need to communicate to him,

0:43:13.767 --> 0:43:15.367
<v Speaker 6>I'll just tetle him myself.

0:43:15.807 --> 0:43:20.127
<v Speaker 7>I would actually love if my partner had access to

0:43:20.207 --> 0:43:22.687
<v Speaker 7>my flow app, because I don't think you'd use it

0:43:22.687 --> 0:43:25.047
<v Speaker 7>against me. I feel like he would just you know,

0:43:25.367 --> 0:43:27.927
<v Speaker 7>make me food or be nicer to me when he

0:43:28.007 --> 0:43:28.487
<v Speaker 7>needs to be.

0:43:28.847 --> 0:43:34.487
<v Speaker 9>I don't currently use a period tracker app. I don't

0:43:34.567 --> 0:43:39.327
<v Speaker 9>think my partner needs to see it personally. If he

0:43:39.447 --> 0:43:42.567
<v Speaker 9>needs to know, we can have a conversation about it.

0:43:42.727 --> 0:43:45.927
<v Speaker 1>But I can't really think of a reason why he

0:43:46.007 --> 0:43:47.007
<v Speaker 1>would need to know.

0:43:47.407 --> 0:43:51.047
<v Speaker 10>I use both flow and Natural Cycles, and I let

0:43:51.087 --> 0:43:54.287
<v Speaker 10>my partner or ex partner have access to it so

0:43:54.327 --> 0:43:56.287
<v Speaker 10>you can track my period in my fertility because I

0:43:56.327 --> 0:43:59.087
<v Speaker 10>feel like it shouldn't just be on me. It's like

0:43:59.087 --> 0:44:01.487
<v Speaker 10>a partnership. So yeah, I let him track so he

0:44:01.567 --> 0:44:02.887
<v Speaker 10>kne when I was my period was coming in, when

0:44:02.887 --> 0:44:03.687
<v Speaker 10>I was gonna be fertile.

0:44:04.407 --> 0:44:06.767
<v Speaker 4>Look from a fertility perspective. I totally get it. You're

0:44:06.807 --> 0:44:08.287
<v Speaker 4>both looking out for that window and you know you

0:44:08.327 --> 0:44:10.927
<v Speaker 4>want to jump on it. But any other time, no,

0:44:11.047 --> 0:44:14.127
<v Speaker 4>thank you. That's my business. I don't need you inside

0:44:14.127 --> 0:44:17.127
<v Speaker 4>my uterus as a man for any reason, whether you

0:44:17.207 --> 0:44:20.167
<v Speaker 4>are government trying to make legislation or my husband. That

0:44:20.327 --> 0:44:23.967
<v Speaker 4>is literally just my business. And you can reach out

0:44:24.007 --> 0:44:26.367
<v Speaker 4>and say I noticed you're feeling a little bit emotional

0:44:26.367 --> 0:44:26.647
<v Speaker 4>this week.

0:44:26.767 --> 0:44:27.127
<v Speaker 1>You okay?

0:44:27.167 --> 0:44:30.007
<v Speaker 4>Can I help you? You don't need an app to

0:44:30.087 --> 0:44:32.847
<v Speaker 4>track that and inform you when I have PMS. No,

0:44:32.967 --> 0:44:33.607
<v Speaker 4>thank you, sir.

0:44:34.407 --> 0:44:36.687
<v Speaker 2>That's all we've got time for this Monday. A massive

0:44:36.767 --> 0:44:39.007
<v Speaker 2>thank you to all of you out louders for listening

0:44:39.047 --> 0:44:41.527
<v Speaker 2>to today's show, and of course to our wonderful team

0:44:41.527 --> 0:44:43.807
<v Speaker 2>for putting this show together. We will be back in

0:44:43.807 --> 0:44:46.727
<v Speaker 2>your ears tomorrow with a rundown of what happened at

0:44:46.727 --> 0:44:50.247
<v Speaker 2>the Emmys today. Bye bye bye.

0:44:50.807 --> 0:44:53.967
<v Speaker 1>Shout out to any Mum and Maya subscribers listening. If

0:44:54.007 --> 0:44:56.567
<v Speaker 1>you love the show and want to support us as well,

0:44:56.767 --> 0:44:59.287
<v Speaker 1>subscribing to MoMA Mia is the very best way to

0:44:59.327 --> 0:45:01.727
<v Speaker 1>do so. There is a link in the episode description