1
00:00:10,327 --> 00:00:13,047
Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.

2
00:00:13,727 --> 00:00:16,767
Speaker 2: Mamma Mea acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters

3
00:00:16,807 --> 00:00:23,527
Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on Hello and welcome to

4
00:00:23,607 --> 00:00:26,207
Speaker 2: Mamma Mia out Loud. It's what women are actually talking about.

5
00:00:26,287 --> 00:00:29,687
Speaker 2: On Monday, the sixteenth of September, I'm Holly Wainwright, I'm

6
00:00:29,687 --> 00:00:30,767
Speaker 2: MEA Friedman.

7
00:00:30,407 --> 00:00:31,647
Speaker 3: And I'm Jesse Stevens.

8
00:00:31,847 --> 00:00:35,527
Speaker 2: And on the show today, unpicking the conspiracies from the

9
00:00:35,567 --> 00:00:38,807
Speaker 2: dog whistles on Planet Trump as he apparently survives another

10
00:00:38,887 --> 00:00:42,847
Speaker 2: attempt on his life. Also unpacking the Perfect Couple and

11
00:00:42,887 --> 00:00:45,647
Speaker 2: why Nicole Kidman is very much in her rich lady

12
00:00:45,647 --> 00:00:48,647
Speaker 2: who lives by the sea era and do you want

13
00:00:48,687 --> 00:00:51,127
Speaker 2: your partner to know where you are in your cycle?

14
00:00:51,647 --> 00:00:54,927
Speaker 2: The endless inventions to handle our hormones and whether they're

15
00:00:54,927 --> 00:00:57,247
Speaker 2: always helpful. But first, me a Freedman.

16
00:00:57,527 --> 00:01:00,247
Speaker 1: In case you missed it, Prince Harry celebrated his fortieth

17
00:01:00,287 --> 00:01:02,527
Speaker 1: birthday over the weekend, which will make you feel very old.

18
00:01:02,527 --> 00:01:05,767
Speaker 1: If you remember Kim being taken out of the hospital

19
00:01:05,807 --> 00:01:07,847
Speaker 1: in the arms of his mother, she had says Diana

20
00:01:07,887 --> 00:01:09,287
Speaker 1: in a little blankie.

21
00:01:09,367 --> 00:01:11,407
Speaker 2: Thought of that, but of course I'm under that.

22
00:01:11,527 --> 00:01:13,367
Speaker 1: Yeah, the big question in the lead up, of course,

23
00:01:13,527 --> 00:01:16,647
Speaker 1: was would King Charles and Prince William acknowledge it? Because

24
00:01:16,647 --> 00:01:20,527
Speaker 1: they haven't since twenty twenty one. I shouldn't laugh. I

25
00:01:20,527 --> 00:01:23,567
Speaker 1: think the word to use is estranged. But this year

26
00:01:23,687 --> 00:01:24,607
Speaker 1: they did acknowledge it.

27
00:01:24,647 --> 00:01:26,487
Speaker 2: You can't ignore the big ones, so you can ignore

28
00:01:26,567 --> 00:01:29,167
Speaker 2: thirty eight who cares whatever, but you can't ignore them.

29
00:01:29,447 --> 00:01:31,607
Speaker 1: Well, they sort of acknowledge it. So the Royal Family

30
00:01:31,647 --> 00:01:35,487
Speaker 1: official social media platform, which is like Buckingham Palace and

31
00:01:35,607 --> 00:01:39,527
Speaker 1: Charles and Camilla's people, they posted a photo to the

32
00:01:39,527 --> 00:01:42,767
Speaker 1: grid of a smiling Harry and the caption read wishing

33
00:01:42,807 --> 00:01:45,847
Speaker 1: the Duke of Sussex a very happy fortieth birthday today.

34
00:01:46,367 --> 00:01:48,647
Speaker 1: Exclamation mark emoji of a cake.

35
00:01:49,167 --> 00:01:49,927
Speaker 4: Oh, I love it.

36
00:01:50,007 --> 00:01:53,047
Speaker 3: I think the exclamation mark is very encouraging. I think

37
00:01:53,047 --> 00:01:54,407
Speaker 3: it seems very authentic.

38
00:01:54,727 --> 00:01:56,647
Speaker 1: The shade came a little bit later in the day

39
00:01:56,807 --> 00:01:59,927
Speaker 1: when William and Kate they have their own account called

40
00:02:00,047 --> 00:02:04,767
Speaker 1: the Princeton Princess of Wales, and they reposted the grid

41
00:02:05,127 --> 00:02:09,607
Speaker 1: from King Charles's page, but to their stories, and we

42
00:02:09,727 --> 00:02:12,327
Speaker 1: know if it goes on the stories. That's the first

43
00:02:12,327 --> 00:02:14,687
Speaker 1: piece of shade. The second piece of shade is that

44
00:02:14,727 --> 00:02:17,567
Speaker 1: they paraphrased the caption out of their own and said,

45
00:02:18,047 --> 00:02:21,807
Speaker 1: wishing a happy fortieth birthday to the Duke of Sussex.

46
00:02:22,047 --> 00:02:27,007
Speaker 1: No exclamation mark, no kke emoji, no very happy happy.

47
00:02:27,087 --> 00:02:30,247
Speaker 2: They took the emoji off to post it to the story.

48
00:02:30,287 --> 00:02:32,327
Speaker 1: Well, they did their own caption, but it's almost like

49
00:02:32,887 --> 00:02:35,207
Speaker 1: it is your birthday today.

50
00:02:35,847 --> 00:02:40,407
Speaker 3: And I heard reports that Charles is planning on giving

51
00:02:40,487 --> 00:02:43,687
Speaker 3: Harry little birthday phone call, and so is Kate. Allegend

52
00:02:44,847 --> 00:02:47,207
Speaker 3: this is Red and the tabloids.

53
00:02:46,767 --> 00:02:49,007
Speaker 1: Jesse after the things that he said about her in

54
00:02:49,167 --> 00:02:51,927
Speaker 1: Wah his memoir, There's no way.

55
00:02:52,087 --> 00:02:59,007
Speaker 3: She would exclusively told the post. So Kate is going

56
00:02:59,087 --> 00:03:01,647
Speaker 3: to phone to wish him well on his birthday, but

57
00:03:01,807 --> 00:03:03,487
Speaker 3: William will not be mad.

58
00:03:03,487 --> 00:03:05,087
Speaker 1: I know what I think that is when you ring

59
00:03:05,167 --> 00:03:07,447
Speaker 1: someone and you just hope that it goes straight to

60
00:03:07,527 --> 00:03:10,247
Speaker 1: voicemail and you're like, please pick up, please don't pick up,

61
00:03:10,287 --> 00:03:10,967
Speaker 1: please don't pick up.

62
00:03:11,807 --> 00:03:13,967
Speaker 2: A happy birthday, Sorry to have missed you.

63
00:03:14,687 --> 00:03:16,767
Speaker 3: And have you also heard that he's getting a cheek

64
00:03:16,767 --> 00:03:17,607
Speaker 3: a little inheritance.

65
00:03:17,727 --> 00:03:19,487
Speaker 2: How much money is he getting for his birthday?

66
00:03:19,487 --> 00:03:22,727
Speaker 3: Look reports very but I'm going with sixteen mil from

67
00:03:22,807 --> 00:03:24,847
Speaker 3: the Queen mother. She had a thing where when you

68
00:03:24,887 --> 00:03:27,607
Speaker 3: turn forty you get a pot of money. He's getting

69
00:03:27,607 --> 00:03:29,967
Speaker 3: another pot of money, another pot of money. So I

70
00:03:30,007 --> 00:03:31,527
Speaker 3: love little birthday present for Harry.

71
00:03:31,967 --> 00:03:33,927
Speaker 2: That is shade right if you just post it to

72
00:03:33,967 --> 00:03:35,327
Speaker 2: the stories, oh, because.

73
00:03:35,087 --> 00:03:38,407
Speaker 3: It's going to disappear. And also okay, it's me as

74
00:03:38,447 --> 00:03:42,487
Speaker 3: birthday right. Holly shares a happy birthday to mayor to

75
00:03:42,527 --> 00:03:47,607
Speaker 3: the grid, to the grid, I just reshare Holly's happy birthday.

76
00:03:47,207 --> 00:03:49,407
Speaker 2: Which isn't mine to share with the sad caption. With

77
00:03:49,487 --> 00:03:51,207
Speaker 2: a sad caption, you can share with it.

78
00:03:51,287 --> 00:03:51,887
Speaker 1: I can ever do.

79
00:03:52,647 --> 00:03:53,407
Speaker 4: I hate you.

80
00:03:53,607 --> 00:03:57,967
Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you for that translation.

81
00:03:58,807 --> 00:04:01,967
Speaker 5: Donald Trump says he's safe and well after reports of

82
00:04:02,047 --> 00:04:05,527
Speaker 5: gunshots described to have been fired in his vicinity.

83
00:04:05,687 --> 00:04:09,247
Speaker 2: There has been another assassination attempt on Donald Trump's life,

84
00:04:09,367 --> 00:04:11,927
Speaker 2: at least that's certainly how it seems as we're recording

85
00:04:11,967 --> 00:04:15,367
Speaker 2: this at Monday lunchtime. Here is what's being reported by

86
00:04:15,407 --> 00:04:19,127
Speaker 2: reputable sources. Trump was playing golf. I don't want to

87
00:04:19,127 --> 00:04:21,567
Speaker 2: be mean. I don't want to start with negativity.

88
00:04:23,087 --> 00:04:26,727
Speaker 1: Busy, no, no, no. He likes to play golf. It's

89
00:04:26,767 --> 00:04:30,327
Speaker 1: what he does, clearly a lot, barely. Apparently he's very

90
00:04:30,327 --> 00:04:30,807
Speaker 1: good at it.

91
00:04:30,887 --> 00:04:33,167
Speaker 2: I'm not running for president, and I would find it

92
00:04:33,207 --> 00:04:35,247
Speaker 2: hard to find time for how long does golf take?

93
00:04:36,287 --> 00:04:37,607
Speaker 1: A golf is for board people.

94
00:04:38,367 --> 00:04:41,767
Speaker 2: Anyway, let's put the shade aside, because this is quite serious.

95
00:04:42,047 --> 00:04:44,847
Speaker 2: He was playing golf in Florida at Palm Beach and

96
00:04:45,007 --> 00:04:48,487
Speaker 2: apparently a rifle poked through the fence of the golf course,

97
00:04:48,727 --> 00:04:51,087
Speaker 2: and it's not clear if they got any shots off,

98
00:04:51,087 --> 00:04:54,647
Speaker 2: but the Secret Service shot back. At least four shots

99
00:04:54,647 --> 00:04:57,287
Speaker 2: were fired, and the gunman ran away but then later

100
00:04:57,367 --> 00:05:00,727
Speaker 2: got caught. It turns out his preliminary identification is he's

101
00:05:00,767 --> 00:05:04,287
Speaker 2: a guy called Ryan Ruth and that he has been

102
00:05:04,487 --> 00:05:08,047
Speaker 2: very vocal on social media criticizing Trump, and he's very

103
00:05:08,167 --> 00:05:11,407
Speaker 2: pro Ukraine. So he's said in captions that he did

104
00:05:11,527 --> 00:05:13,967
Speaker 2: vote for Trump in twenty sixteen but has been deeply

105
00:05:14,007 --> 00:05:16,767
Speaker 2: disillusioned by him and he I mean, you don't want

106
00:05:16,807 --> 00:05:19,767
Speaker 2: to diagnose from social media captions, but the man appears

107
00:05:19,807 --> 00:05:21,127
Speaker 2: to be rather unwell.

108
00:05:21,247 --> 00:05:23,607
Speaker 1: He's fifty eight, and his sons come out and said

109
00:05:23,727 --> 00:05:27,847
Speaker 1: that he hopes that media reports are overblown. All he

110
00:05:27,887 --> 00:05:30,007
Speaker 1: can say is that his father is a hard working

111
00:05:30,207 --> 00:05:33,367
Speaker 1: and loving father. I think he's also from Hawaii.

112
00:05:34,047 --> 00:05:36,087
Speaker 2: So if you've heard about this, and Trump is fine,

113
00:05:36,207 --> 00:05:38,927
Speaker 2: though he was not hit or injured in this encounter,

114
00:05:39,567 --> 00:05:42,047
Speaker 2: and it's been roundly condemned of course, that there is

115
00:05:42,087 --> 00:05:45,127
Speaker 2: no place for this kind of violence in politics, from

116
00:05:45,127 --> 00:05:47,967
Speaker 2: everyone from Harris to Biden and so on. If you've

117
00:05:48,007 --> 00:05:50,847
Speaker 2: heard that story, you've probably also heard though some of

118
00:05:50,887 --> 00:05:53,847
Speaker 2: the skepticism around it. Now we're not endorsing any of that,

119
00:05:53,927 --> 00:05:55,407
Speaker 2: but some of the kind of points that are being

120
00:05:55,487 --> 00:05:58,487
Speaker 2: shared are, is Donald Trump going to get someone to

121
00:05:58,487 --> 00:06:01,247
Speaker 2: pretend to shoot him every time his ratings go down?

122
00:06:01,487 --> 00:06:04,447
Speaker 2: And so on and so on. It's getting harder and

123
00:06:04,487 --> 00:06:07,487
Speaker 2: harder to pick the conspiracies from the truths. So it's

124
00:06:07,487 --> 00:06:11,207
Speaker 2: hardly surprising that the first reaction to this and almost

125
00:06:11,247 --> 00:06:14,887
Speaker 2: any event, actually is did that actually happen? Is it

126
00:06:14,967 --> 00:06:18,327
Speaker 2: actually real? Trump's team are especially good at this.

127
00:06:18,887 --> 00:06:19,447
Speaker 1: I wanted to.

128
00:06:19,407 --> 00:06:21,927
Speaker 2: Talk a little bit about the Eating Dogs and Cats

129
00:06:21,967 --> 00:06:25,087
Speaker 2: debarcle of the past week as an example. The world

130
00:06:25,087 --> 00:06:28,087
Speaker 2: has been laughing at that since the debate last Wednesday.

131
00:06:28,167 --> 00:06:30,927
Speaker 2: We spoke about it obviously on the show on Wednesday

132
00:06:30,967 --> 00:06:33,687
Speaker 2: and on a special subscribers episode on Thursday.

133
00:06:33,367 --> 00:06:36,887
Speaker 1: And on the weekend, I shared this song to the

134
00:06:36,887 --> 00:06:40,167
Speaker 1: group chat thinking that it was funny. Have a listen to.

135
00:06:40,127 --> 00:06:47,727
Speaker 2: This in Springfield, they're eating the dogs, they're eating the cats.

136
00:06:47,367 --> 00:06:49,967
Speaker 6: They're eating the pets.

137
00:06:49,167 --> 00:06:51,127
Speaker 1: Of the people that live there.

138
00:06:52,487 --> 00:06:53,887
Speaker 7: They're eating the dogs.

139
00:06:54,247 --> 00:06:57,807
Speaker 1: That's a remix by DJ the Kidner's I'm sorry it

140
00:06:57,927 --> 00:07:01,367
Speaker 1: was quite catchy, but I do appreciate it's also quite serious.

141
00:07:02,367 --> 00:07:05,327
Speaker 2: Everybody's been laughing about that and making cool remixes of

142
00:07:05,367 --> 00:07:08,127
Speaker 2: it and using it broadly as an example of how

143
00:07:08,167 --> 00:07:10,767
Speaker 2: Donald Trump lost his mind and had some sort of

144
00:07:10,847 --> 00:07:14,727
Speaker 2: brain explosion in the debate. But actually that's not what

145
00:07:14,807 --> 00:07:17,527
Speaker 2: has happened, and there isn't that much to laugh about,

146
00:07:17,527 --> 00:07:20,407
Speaker 2: because what this eating dogs and cats thing that Trump

147
00:07:20,447 --> 00:07:23,767
Speaker 2: exploded with during the debate has actually done is send

148
00:07:23,887 --> 00:07:27,287
Speaker 2: the world's media to a small city in Midwestern America

149
00:07:27,567 --> 00:07:32,087
Speaker 2: that has recently had a large injection of Haitian immigrants. Now,

150
00:07:32,087 --> 00:07:34,967
Speaker 2: the real story about Springfield, Ohio could definitely be seen

151
00:07:35,007 --> 00:07:37,687
Speaker 2: as a good one. The town was really languishing, you know,

152
00:07:37,727 --> 00:07:40,167
Speaker 2: It's manufacturing had moved on, like the story in lots

153
00:07:40,207 --> 00:07:44,007
Speaker 2: of small towns across America and Australia. Indeed, and after

154
00:07:44,247 --> 00:07:48,567
Speaker 2: COVID and lots of incentives from the city authorities for

155
00:07:48,607 --> 00:07:51,847
Speaker 2: businesses to come and set up businesses, their factories, manufacturing

156
00:07:51,847 --> 00:07:54,407
Speaker 2: and so on. There was a labor shortage, so people

157
00:07:54,487 --> 00:07:57,087
Speaker 2: were encouraged to move there, take the jobs, and reinvigorate

158
00:07:57,127 --> 00:08:01,487
Speaker 2: the city. It's estimated that somewhere between twelve thousand and

159
00:08:01,607 --> 00:08:05,087
Speaker 2: twenty thousand Haitian immigrants from other parts of the US

160
00:08:05,407 --> 00:08:08,687
Speaker 2: and who have relatively recently arrived from Haiti because there's

161
00:08:08,687 --> 00:08:11,447
Speaker 2: a lot of unread in Haiti, have moved to Springfield

162
00:08:11,487 --> 00:08:15,567
Speaker 2: to take these jobs. Right now, any smallish town that

163
00:08:15,687 --> 00:08:18,607
Speaker 2: has a sudden population shift like this is going to

164
00:08:18,687 --> 00:08:24,607
Speaker 2: face issues. And indeed Springfield has infrastructure issues like around healthcare, housing, schools,

165
00:08:24,607 --> 00:08:27,527
Speaker 2: and roads. It is not necessarily caught up yet right

166
00:08:27,567 --> 00:08:31,207
Speaker 2: with this population injection, and there are some legitimate issues,

167
00:08:31,527 --> 00:08:34,247
Speaker 2: none of which have anything to do, of course, with

168
00:08:34,367 --> 00:08:38,327
Speaker 2: anybody eating cats or dogs. But what Trump and JD.

169
00:08:38,487 --> 00:08:42,007
Speaker 2: Vance's literal dog whistle did while all of us lefties

170
00:08:42,007 --> 00:08:44,247
Speaker 2: were laughing, or all of us in our anti Trump

171
00:08:44,247 --> 00:08:47,047
Speaker 2: bubble were laughing, was exactly what it set out to do,

172
00:08:47,527 --> 00:08:50,087
Speaker 2: which was to highlight a place that has a few

173
00:08:50,207 --> 00:08:55,247
Speaker 2: legitimate issues with population growth and hand amc to resentment

174
00:08:55,287 --> 00:08:58,167
Speaker 2: and fear, this kind of hum of do you want

175
00:08:58,207 --> 00:09:02,247
Speaker 2: your town to be overrun with strangers, foreigners, people who

176
00:09:02,247 --> 00:09:04,927
Speaker 2: are different to you? And no one was talking about

177
00:09:05,007 --> 00:09:08,767
Speaker 2: Springfield before Tuesday, and now this deeply racist undertone has

178
00:09:08,807 --> 00:09:09,407
Speaker 2: been legit.

179
00:09:10,367 --> 00:09:12,327
Speaker 1: I hadn't thought about it like that, And it's.

180
00:09:12,367 --> 00:09:16,167
Speaker 2: What Trump wants. I want us to consider every time

181
00:09:16,207 --> 00:09:20,847
Speaker 2: we're like laughing about him and thinking like that guy's crazy,

182
00:09:20,927 --> 00:09:21,727
Speaker 2: what an idiot?

183
00:09:21,807 --> 00:09:21,887
Speaker 8: What?

184
00:09:22,647 --> 00:09:26,167
Speaker 2: His team and him probably are smarter than we give

185
00:09:26,167 --> 00:09:29,807
Speaker 2: them credit for, because that ridiculous comment in the debate

186
00:09:30,007 --> 00:09:33,687
Speaker 2: has played right into their hands using a conspiracy theory

187
00:09:33,767 --> 00:09:36,127
Speaker 2: like that. Jesse, do you think we need to better

188
00:09:36,247 --> 00:09:38,207
Speaker 2: understand conspiracy theories?

189
00:09:38,527 --> 00:09:40,807
Speaker 3: Yes? I mean it's hard, right because it's like, well,

190
00:09:40,807 --> 00:09:45,527
Speaker 3: how are you meant to react? Like to take it seriously?

191
00:09:46,167 --> 00:09:50,567
Speaker 3: Almost feels more offensive to immigrants, like and it was

192
00:09:50,647 --> 00:09:53,247
Speaker 3: fact checked at the time, and that is.

193
00:09:53,207 --> 00:09:55,647
Speaker 2: No evidence of anybody eating any dogs or cats.

194
00:09:55,807 --> 00:09:57,567
Speaker 3: Yeah, but what we need to do, I think is

195
00:09:57,567 --> 00:10:00,047
Speaker 3: follow up with the real world consequences. Because the mayor

196
00:10:00,087 --> 00:10:04,567
Speaker 3: of Springfield confirmed to reporters that elementary schools have been

197
00:10:04,607 --> 00:10:09,927
Speaker 3: evacuated because of threats directly to the community. If you

198
00:10:10,007 --> 00:10:13,527
Speaker 3: were someone an immigrant from Haiti and you were living

199
00:10:13,527 --> 00:10:16,687
Speaker 3: in Springfield right now, how genuinely scary would it be.

200
00:10:16,687 --> 00:10:18,727
Speaker 2: Like her to cancel community events?

201
00:10:18,927 --> 00:10:21,567
Speaker 3: I guess the question is also like who's the butt

202
00:10:21,607 --> 00:10:24,167
Speaker 3: of the joke here? Because to a lot of immigrants,

203
00:10:24,207 --> 00:10:26,567
Speaker 3: I think you would feel like the butt of the joke.

204
00:10:26,927 --> 00:10:31,087
Speaker 3: And jd Vance said as much he was speaking.

205
00:10:30,687 --> 00:10:33,527
Speaker 1: He's got to stop talking about cats. Yeah, what's wrong

206
00:10:33,567 --> 00:10:34,087
Speaker 1: with that man?

207
00:10:34,167 --> 00:10:34,807
Speaker 3: He's obsessed.

208
00:10:34,927 --> 00:10:37,567
Speaker 1: He's obsessed with who's got cats, who doesn't have children?

209
00:10:37,647 --> 00:10:38,327
Speaker 1: What they're doing with it?

210
00:10:38,447 --> 00:10:38,527
Speaker 7: What?

211
00:10:38,727 --> 00:10:39,127
Speaker 2: Just sure?

212
00:10:39,167 --> 00:10:41,767
Speaker 3: She's he was speaking, and he said that he is

213
00:10:41,847 --> 00:10:44,487
Speaker 3: willing to create stories, and he was pressed on it,

214
00:10:44,527 --> 00:10:47,767
Speaker 3: and he said, basically, the Republican Party at this point

215
00:10:47,807 --> 00:10:50,527
Speaker 3: is willing to create stories so that the media actually

216
00:10:50,527 --> 00:10:53,327
Speaker 3: pays attention to the suffering of the American people.

217
00:10:53,447 --> 00:10:55,727
Speaker 2: And that's exactly what has just he.

218
00:10:55,647 --> 00:10:58,887
Speaker 3: Knew this wasn't true. Trump knew this wasn't true. It

219
00:10:58,927 --> 00:11:01,207
Speaker 3: didn't matter if it was true, because it told a

220
00:11:01,287 --> 00:11:04,847
Speaker 3: story they wanted to tell about unrest caused by immigrants.

221
00:11:04,887 --> 00:11:07,767
Speaker 3: The damage has been done. No amount of fact checking

222
00:11:07,847 --> 00:11:10,087
Speaker 3: or whatever is going to make any difference. And the

223
00:11:10,167 --> 00:11:12,567
Speaker 3: other thing that they've done is the earpiece. Did you

224
00:11:12,567 --> 00:11:15,287
Speaker 3: guys see this over the weekend? I saw I was,

225
00:11:15,447 --> 00:11:19,127
Speaker 3: you know, just on social media and you can get

226
00:11:19,167 --> 00:11:20,687
Speaker 3: pulled into it really quickly.

227
00:11:20,767 --> 00:11:23,967
Speaker 1: They just what they tried to say is that, Okay,

228
00:11:23,967 --> 00:11:26,287
Speaker 1: what you've got to understand about Trump is I'm going

229
00:11:26,367 --> 00:11:28,887
Speaker 1: to challenge you on one thing, Holly, which is he

230
00:11:28,967 --> 00:11:32,407
Speaker 1: knew what he was doing. Trump never has a strategy, right,

231
00:11:32,687 --> 00:11:36,047
Speaker 1: He's pure id He's just pure. If you think of

232
00:11:36,087 --> 00:11:38,847
Speaker 1: him as a toddler. Toddlers don't have strategies, They just

233
00:11:38,927 --> 00:11:41,847
Speaker 1: react in real time. This was a strategy to the moment.

234
00:11:41,967 --> 00:11:42,367
Speaker 1: I think.

235
00:11:44,087 --> 00:11:44,527
Speaker 2: Strategy.

236
00:11:44,607 --> 00:11:47,007
Speaker 1: But what I was going to say is that the

237
00:11:47,087 --> 00:11:49,407
Speaker 1: people around him, this is why he's so dangerous as

238
00:11:49,447 --> 00:11:51,847
Speaker 1: a leader. And what Kamala Harris was trying to point out,

239
00:11:52,847 --> 00:11:56,647
Speaker 1: he's so easy to manipulate. So I'm not saying that

240
00:11:56,727 --> 00:11:59,327
Speaker 1: his people around him didn't know what to feed him.

241
00:11:59,607 --> 00:12:04,247
Speaker 1: But when there's a fact that he can't handle because

242
00:12:04,247 --> 00:12:07,447
Speaker 1: it doesn't align with his view of himself as a

243
00:12:07,447 --> 00:12:13,007
Speaker 1: tough man, a winner, or powerful almighty, he just makes

244
00:12:13,087 --> 00:12:15,967
Speaker 1: up something else because that's what he has to believe.

245
00:12:16,447 --> 00:12:19,287
Speaker 1: Because it was roundly agreed even by Fox News that

246
00:12:19,327 --> 00:12:21,487
Speaker 1: he lost the debate, and he can't really get away

247
00:12:21,487 --> 00:12:24,767
Speaker 1: from those headlines, just like when he lost the election.

248
00:12:25,527 --> 00:12:27,727
Speaker 1: He has to find a way to make that not true,

249
00:12:27,887 --> 00:12:31,687
Speaker 1: and it is questioning the moderators, and he has since

250
00:12:31,767 --> 00:12:35,287
Speaker 1: said that they should be criminally investigated, the moderators of

251
00:12:35,287 --> 00:12:39,087
Speaker 1: the debate. He's now saying that Kamala Harris had ear

252
00:12:39,127 --> 00:12:42,087
Speaker 1: pieces in her earrings and was being coached in real

253
00:12:42,127 --> 00:12:44,647
Speaker 1: time about what to say and fed the questions in

254
00:12:44,727 --> 00:12:47,487
Speaker 1: advance by the corrupt abe his news.

255
00:12:47,887 --> 00:12:50,487
Speaker 3: But the thing is he didn't start that rumor right

256
00:12:50,567 --> 00:12:54,407
Speaker 3: like it started on X oh yeah by someone else,

257
00:12:54,447 --> 00:12:56,687
Speaker 3: and then of course he does jump onto.

258
00:12:56,527 --> 00:13:00,727
Speaker 1: It, grab anything to soothe himself, and his supporters love

259
00:13:00,807 --> 00:13:03,967
Speaker 1: that because that's a much more interesting story than Kamala

260
00:13:04,007 --> 00:13:09,007
Speaker 1: Harris is just an accomplished smart woman who whipped his ass.

261
00:13:09,007 --> 00:13:11,327
Speaker 3: And the more you ever explain, the guiltier you sound.

262
00:13:11,487 --> 00:13:14,887
Speaker 3: There's every article and fact check out that's gone. She's

263
00:13:14,967 --> 00:13:17,207
Speaker 3: worn these earrings once a month for years.

264
00:13:17,207 --> 00:13:19,767
Speaker 1: And as soon as she then releases a statement ye

265
00:13:20,047 --> 00:13:23,167
Speaker 1: denying that it's like the sharing the tailor for Trump

266
00:13:23,527 --> 00:13:26,207
Speaker 1: deep fakes. As soon as you have to deny it.

267
00:13:26,327 --> 00:13:29,047
Speaker 1: You're dragged into the gutter and dragged into his news cycle,

268
00:13:29,087 --> 00:13:30,007
Speaker 1: and that's what he loves.

269
00:13:30,687 --> 00:13:33,847
Speaker 2: It's interesting, though, because you know the cats and dogs.

270
00:13:34,167 --> 00:13:38,807
Speaker 2: Trump's team are sharing all these very stylized AI cat

271
00:13:38,847 --> 00:13:42,327
Speaker 2: memes of him and JD. Vance on planes fuls of cats,

272
00:13:42,367 --> 00:13:46,407
Speaker 2: and it's very clever. It's very clever. It's got smart

273
00:13:46,407 --> 00:13:50,967
Speaker 2: people around terrifyingly dark because it's playing into it a

274
00:13:51,047 --> 00:13:56,247
Speaker 2: deliberately racist trope one hundred percent. It's putting actual, real

275
00:13:56,327 --> 00:14:00,727
Speaker 2: life humans in danger in Springfield and other places, and

276
00:14:00,767 --> 00:14:05,127
Speaker 2: it's giving everybody lots of fodder to extend this ridiculous conversation.

277
00:14:05,927 --> 00:14:07,567
Speaker 2: I don't know. I wish there was a way to

278
00:14:07,687 --> 00:14:10,047
Speaker 2: avoid being pulled into his version of that.

279
00:14:10,247 --> 00:14:12,887
Speaker 1: But he loves that for two reasons. Firstly, what he

280
00:14:12,967 --> 00:14:16,007
Speaker 1: understands better than anyone who's how to dominate the news cycle,

281
00:14:16,287 --> 00:14:19,927
Speaker 1: That's what I mean exactly. And also it's who's around him,

282
00:14:20,207 --> 00:14:23,327
Speaker 1: So he tends to surround himself by people who know

283
00:14:23,407 --> 00:14:27,607
Speaker 1: how to play him. And he loves conspiracies because you

284
00:14:27,647 --> 00:14:32,647
Speaker 1: can always invent a conspiracy to explain why something you

285
00:14:32,687 --> 00:14:35,767
Speaker 1: don't like isn't true. And so what's alarming, and we're

286
00:14:35,767 --> 00:14:37,527
Speaker 1: going to talk about it more later in the week

287
00:14:37,567 --> 00:14:40,607
Speaker 1: with Emelia Lester. There's a woman called Laura Luma who

288
00:14:40,967 --> 00:14:42,927
Speaker 1: is spending a lot of time with him now and

289
00:14:42,967 --> 00:14:47,487
Speaker 1: traveled to the debate with him. She's a very troubling person,

290
00:14:47,527 --> 00:14:51,727
Speaker 1: and even the most extreme MAGA people have disenfranchised her

291
00:14:51,767 --> 00:14:54,487
Speaker 1: and said she's too extreme for them. She went with

292
00:14:54,607 --> 00:14:57,007
Speaker 1: him to the nine to eleven memorial last week. She

293
00:14:57,607 --> 00:15:00,367
Speaker 1: has publicly said on many occasions that she believes nine

294
00:15:00,367 --> 00:15:02,367
Speaker 1: to eleven was an inside job and that it was

295
00:15:02,407 --> 00:15:05,247
Speaker 1: the American government. Like talk about a conspiracy. So she

296
00:15:05,367 --> 00:15:09,727
Speaker 1: peddles these conspiracy theories, and Trump will just regard agitate

297
00:15:09,967 --> 00:15:12,887
Speaker 1: what he's been told. And that's why he's so easy

298
00:15:12,887 --> 00:15:16,447
Speaker 1: to play any leader that pisss in his pocket, whether

299
00:15:16,487 --> 00:15:19,247
Speaker 1: it's Kim Jong U R. Putin, they know how to

300
00:15:19,247 --> 00:15:21,527
Speaker 1: play him. It doesn't mean that he's colluding with them.

301
00:15:21,807 --> 00:15:22,887
Speaker 1: They're just smarter than him.

302
00:15:23,047 --> 00:15:25,887
Speaker 2: I just worry that we're all being played by him,

303
00:15:25,927 --> 00:15:28,287
Speaker 2: that the left leaning media is being played by him.

304
00:15:28,327 --> 00:15:29,727
Speaker 2: I don't when I say we, I don't mean we

305
00:15:29,847 --> 00:15:32,927
Speaker 2: the left leaning media, but like when we're laughing about

306
00:15:32,927 --> 00:15:35,047
Speaker 2: the dogs and cats and going, this man's out of

307
00:15:35,047 --> 00:15:37,687
Speaker 2: his mind and that we are being played by him

308
00:15:37,887 --> 00:15:40,727
Speaker 2: like a violin. And I think that that's why it'll

309
00:15:40,767 --> 00:15:44,127
Speaker 2: be interesting now to see if there's any legs to

310
00:15:44,167 --> 00:15:47,887
Speaker 2: this idea of like maybe this assassination attempt was overblown,

311
00:15:47,927 --> 00:15:49,847
Speaker 2: maybe it wasn't real. Maybe he just wants a new cycle.

312
00:15:49,887 --> 00:15:52,087
Speaker 2: But that Trump's enemies also stop buying it.

313
00:15:52,167 --> 00:15:54,967
Speaker 1: But that's the left conspiracy. Yeah, yeah, but you even

314
00:15:54,967 --> 00:15:57,367
Speaker 1: saw in the debate he was trying to say, this

315
00:15:57,607 --> 00:16:01,367
Speaker 1: is the Democrats organized to try and have me killed.

316
00:16:01,407 --> 00:16:03,047
Speaker 1: I mean he's been saying that quite a lot. Jadie

317
00:16:03,087 --> 00:16:05,807
Speaker 1: Vance came out straight after that first assassination attempt and

318
00:16:05,847 --> 00:16:08,807
Speaker 1: said that, and many people say that's why he was chosen.

319
00:16:08,887 --> 00:16:11,927
Speaker 1: Apart from being best mates with John Jr. Trump really

320
00:16:12,047 --> 00:16:14,527
Speaker 1: liked that. He loves a conspiracy theory because he knows

321
00:16:14,527 --> 00:16:17,127
Speaker 1: that it plays well with his base, who love a story.

322
00:16:17,287 --> 00:16:20,127
Speaker 3: And to go back to that first assassination attempt, because

323
00:16:20,127 --> 00:16:22,567
Speaker 3: the news cycle moved so quickly that we never kind

324
00:16:22,607 --> 00:16:25,607
Speaker 3: of properly get to prosecute what happened. I remember us

325
00:16:25,647 --> 00:16:30,327
Speaker 3: having a conversation and talking about the contempt in political

326
00:16:30,327 --> 00:16:34,727
Speaker 3: discourse and was this a reflection of where we're at

327
00:16:34,767 --> 00:16:39,087
Speaker 3: at a culture and political divisiveness. Looking back, what actually

328
00:16:39,127 --> 00:16:41,527
Speaker 3: happened there. The way that history will interpret what happened

329
00:16:41,967 --> 00:16:44,887
Speaker 3: was that this gunman and two people died on that day,

330
00:16:45,087 --> 00:16:47,647
Speaker 3: and that was really sad. But what happened on that

331
00:16:47,767 --> 00:16:51,727
Speaker 3: day was he wanted a spectacle. I don't think that

332
00:16:51,727 --> 00:16:55,327
Speaker 3: that man was politically motivated to kill Trump. I think

333
00:16:55,407 --> 00:16:56,567
Speaker 3: he would have killed.

334
00:16:56,327 --> 00:16:58,767
Speaker 1: Popide in the locations of both candidates exactly.

335
00:16:58,887 --> 00:17:02,207
Speaker 3: And so it wasn't anything against a Republican candidate. It

336
00:17:02,207 --> 00:17:04,447
Speaker 3: wasn't anything against Trump. It was about spectacle. It was

337
00:17:04,767 --> 00:17:06,287
Speaker 3: the same as we see in the US all the

338
00:17:06,327 --> 00:17:09,567
Speaker 3: time of people going and school shooting, for example. It's

339
00:17:09,607 --> 00:17:12,167
Speaker 3: got a lot to do with gun laws. This obviously

340
00:17:12,207 --> 00:17:15,967
Speaker 3: we don't know so much about anymore, but the way

341
00:17:16,047 --> 00:17:19,367
Speaker 3: that it was put into this very neat narrative. And

342
00:17:19,407 --> 00:17:22,447
Speaker 3: whether you think Trump's smart or an idiot or manipulated,

343
00:17:23,087 --> 00:17:25,207
Speaker 3: he tells a story, and he tells a good story

344
00:17:25,407 --> 00:17:27,807
Speaker 3: that does resonate with a lot of people and makes

345
00:17:27,807 --> 00:17:31,207
Speaker 3: them feel things. So the cats and dogs, and we

346
00:17:31,247 --> 00:17:33,767
Speaker 3: talked a little bit about this posted debate, but that

347
00:17:33,967 --> 00:17:38,447
Speaker 3: is a story about savages it's about the external savage

348
00:17:38,607 --> 00:17:43,367
Speaker 3: coming into a Western civilization and destroying the vulnerable things

349
00:17:43,367 --> 00:17:43,807
Speaker 3: they love.

350
00:17:43,887 --> 00:17:45,887
Speaker 1: But Jesse, it's also in the same realm as the

351
00:17:45,967 --> 00:17:50,247
Speaker 1: Democrats executing babies. They're executing the babies after they're born.

352
00:17:50,607 --> 00:17:54,247
Speaker 1: It's this idea that these evil people, you're right, are

353
00:17:54,247 --> 00:17:57,927
Speaker 1: threatening our way of life. When the moderators during the

354
00:17:57,927 --> 00:17:59,967
Speaker 1: debate were fact checking him, I mean we were laughing

355
00:17:59,967 --> 00:18:03,167
Speaker 1: because it's like it's satire. It's not something out of

356
00:18:03,167 --> 00:18:05,967
Speaker 1: Saturday Night. I've mister Trump, We've checked, and no, it

357
00:18:06,047 --> 00:18:07,207
Speaker 1: is not legal in anything.

358
00:18:07,327 --> 00:18:09,887
Speaker 3: You know why the facts a cutter baby didn't even

359
00:18:09,967 --> 00:18:13,047
Speaker 3: work because what he was speaking to was something that

360
00:18:13,247 --> 00:18:14,967
Speaker 3: some Americans.

361
00:18:14,447 --> 00:18:17,607
Speaker 1: Feel, and just yeah, it plays for him.

362
00:18:18,527 --> 00:18:21,087
Speaker 3: If you feel like someone's taken your job, or you

363
00:18:21,167 --> 00:18:23,247
Speaker 3: feel like your suburb looks different to how it looked

364
00:18:23,287 --> 00:18:25,407
Speaker 3: twenty years ago, then you actually don't give a shit

365
00:18:25,447 --> 00:18:27,487
Speaker 3: whether a real cat or a real dog was killed

366
00:18:27,527 --> 00:18:29,807
Speaker 3: or eaten. You're just like, yeah, that man knows how

367
00:18:29,807 --> 00:18:32,727
Speaker 3: I feel, which is even more kind of sinister.

368
00:18:46,247 --> 00:18:50,007
Speaker 8: Scary. I heard someone walking around, You're right. I was

369
00:18:50,087 --> 00:18:54,887
Speaker 8: just I was just thirsty, thirsty. Don't you have a

370
00:18:54,967 --> 00:19:00,087
Speaker 8: graph by your bed? I I forgot. Are you sure

371
00:19:00,127 --> 00:19:03,367
Speaker 8: there wasn't something else you were looking for? Because I

372
00:19:03,407 --> 00:19:06,167
Speaker 8: hate you to be sneaking around. I mean, if you

373
00:19:06,207 --> 00:19:07,767
Speaker 8: want something, just ask.

374
00:19:08,047 --> 00:19:11,327
Speaker 1: Like many of you. The weekend binge watching Nicole Kidman's

375
00:19:11,407 --> 00:19:15,087
Speaker 1: latest series, The Perfect Couple on Netflix, and what everybody's

376
00:19:15,127 --> 00:19:17,567
Speaker 1: talking about is how similar it is to so many

377
00:19:17,687 --> 00:19:21,327
Speaker 1: other Nicole Kidman TV series from the past few years,

378
00:19:22,087 --> 00:19:25,727
Speaker 1: because she seems to keep playing a rich, cold, murder adjacent,

379
00:19:25,767 --> 00:19:28,727
Speaker 1: ambitious mother who looks like she's thirty two while wearing

380
00:19:28,727 --> 00:19:31,767
Speaker 1: a series of quality wigs and living beside large bodies

381
00:19:31,807 --> 00:19:35,527
Speaker 1: of water. You may remember that vibe from Big Little Eyes,

382
00:19:36,047 --> 00:19:39,567
Speaker 1: Nine Perfect Strangers, The Undoing, a Family Affair, and now

383
00:19:39,767 --> 00:19:42,047
Speaker 1: The Perfect Couple, and I should say a Family Affair

384
00:19:42,087 --> 00:19:44,607
Speaker 1: didn't have a murder in it, but her character was

385
00:19:44,767 --> 00:19:47,607
Speaker 1: oddly spookily similar to the one she plays in The

386
00:19:47,607 --> 00:19:52,687
Speaker 1: Perfect Couple. They were both hugely successful authors grappling with

387
00:19:52,727 --> 00:19:55,527
Speaker 1: issues around sex and love and what it means to

388
00:19:55,647 --> 00:19:59,087
Speaker 1: parent your adult children and all the rest of those

389
00:19:59,087 --> 00:20:01,527
Speaker 1: shows like The Perfect Couple do hinge around a murder

390
00:20:01,567 --> 00:20:04,847
Speaker 1: that's revealed in the first episode. It's definitely giving white

391
00:20:04,887 --> 00:20:08,127
Speaker 1: lotus and lots of people have remarked on the similarity

392
00:20:08,127 --> 00:20:11,367
Speaker 1: between White lotus The Perfect Couple. We'll be doing a

393
00:20:11,367 --> 00:20:14,967
Speaker 1: full subscriber review of the whole series with all our

394
00:20:14,967 --> 00:20:16,647
Speaker 1: thoughts in the next few days, but today we want

395
00:20:16,687 --> 00:20:21,327
Speaker 1: to unpack this idea of Nicole's era and the idea

396
00:20:21,367 --> 00:20:25,007
Speaker 1: that it's a pretty interesting career decision to choose so

397
00:20:25,127 --> 00:20:28,287
Speaker 1: many roles that are the same whole What do you

398
00:20:28,287 --> 00:20:30,407
Speaker 1: think is going on with that? Is it a deliberate

399
00:20:30,447 --> 00:20:33,887
Speaker 1: strategy or she just likes playing those women? I don't know.

400
00:20:33,967 --> 00:20:35,527
Speaker 2: I mean, one of the things I think about the

401
00:20:35,527 --> 00:20:38,207
Speaker 2: fact that all these sort of TV ones have come

402
00:20:38,207 --> 00:20:40,647
Speaker 2: out at the same time, because she also has a

403
00:20:40,687 --> 00:20:43,087
Speaker 2: movie coming out, which is supposed to be very Venice

404
00:20:43,127 --> 00:20:47,047
Speaker 2: Film Festival, very arty, very award bab Baby Girl, Baby Girl.

405
00:20:47,487 --> 00:20:49,367
Speaker 2: Is Is it some kind of hangover from the strike,

406
00:20:49,407 --> 00:20:52,247
Speaker 2: because it's like, all of a sudden, just all these vehicles,

407
00:20:52,247 --> 00:20:54,687
Speaker 2: no one's working harder than Nicole. Kidman, it feels like

408
00:20:54,767 --> 00:20:55,687
Speaker 2: at the moment, doesn't it.

409
00:20:55,727 --> 00:20:55,847
Speaker 8: Well.

410
00:20:55,887 --> 00:20:58,447
Speaker 1: They did say that this series, The Perfect Couple was

411
00:20:58,487 --> 00:21:00,807
Speaker 1: meant to be filmed over six weeks, which is still

412
00:21:00,807 --> 00:21:03,687
Speaker 1: a pretty short shoot given it with six episodes. But

413
00:21:03,767 --> 00:21:05,687
Speaker 1: they had to condense it because of the writer's strike

414
00:21:05,727 --> 00:21:08,047
Speaker 1: to just three weeks. It was filmed in three weeks,

415
00:21:08,047 --> 00:21:10,367
Speaker 1: three ways wow, six hours of TV.

416
00:21:10,647 --> 00:21:12,287
Speaker 2: One of the things that I was thinking when I

417
00:21:12,327 --> 00:21:15,047
Speaker 2: was watching it is that, you know how people have

418
00:21:15,087 --> 00:21:17,087
Speaker 2: always said, what are the roles for women over a

419
00:21:17,127 --> 00:21:19,967
Speaker 2: certain age in Hollywood? There are now more roles for

420
00:21:20,007 --> 00:21:21,807
Speaker 2: women over a certain age in Hollywood, but they are

421
00:21:21,927 --> 00:21:22,967
Speaker 2: very specific ones.

422
00:21:23,727 --> 00:21:25,087
Speaker 1: How would you describe the thing that.

423
00:21:25,087 --> 00:21:30,007
Speaker 2: Kidman can't do anymore is she can't do ordinary person.

424
00:21:30,327 --> 00:21:34,607
Speaker 2: So if you think about, say, Kate Winslett playing Mayor

425
00:21:34,647 --> 00:21:37,047
Speaker 2: of Eastown, I can't remember what the character's actual name was,

426
00:21:37,167 --> 00:21:39,927
Speaker 2: Mayor the detective. It was detective. It was a few

427
00:21:40,007 --> 00:21:42,447
Speaker 2: years ago now, but it was an absolute and everybody

428
00:21:42,607 --> 00:21:45,487
Speaker 2: was like, she's so brave because she looks so normal

429
00:21:45,567 --> 00:21:48,687
Speaker 2: and so unlike a movie star and all that because

430
00:21:48,687 --> 00:21:51,247
Speaker 2: she was playing a small town cop who was deep

431
00:21:51,287 --> 00:21:53,487
Speaker 2: in grief and didn't have time to get her roots done.

432
00:21:54,007 --> 00:21:57,127
Speaker 2: Nicole Kidman can't play those roles anymore because of the

433
00:21:57,247 --> 00:21:59,887
Speaker 2: esthetic choices she's made about her face, which are entirely

434
00:21:59,887 --> 00:22:03,647
Speaker 2: her business, mean that she is now perfectly positioned to

435
00:22:03,727 --> 00:22:06,487
Speaker 2: play a certain type of rich, older woman who would

436
00:22:06,487 --> 00:22:07,807
Speaker 2: have also made those choices.

437
00:22:07,967 --> 00:22:11,527
Speaker 1: But you say that she didn't look that different back

438
00:22:11,527 --> 00:22:13,647
Speaker 1: in the day when she was in the hours, and

439
00:22:13,647 --> 00:22:17,487
Speaker 1: that's ironically, or maybe not ironically, what she married Mioska

440
00:22:17,527 --> 00:22:19,327
Speaker 1: for you think, I mean she wore a prosthetic nose

441
00:22:19,367 --> 00:22:20,807
Speaker 1: for that and as sort of a gray wig where

442
00:22:20,847 --> 00:22:23,807
Speaker 1: she played Virginia Wolf. You're right, she does look different now.

443
00:22:23,847 --> 00:22:27,527
Speaker 1: But what's interesting is when we've been involved with Strive,

444
00:22:28,607 --> 00:22:32,127
Speaker 1: you do think about, oh, this character and is it

445
00:22:32,167 --> 00:22:35,407
Speaker 1: too similar to other characters that they've played, and should

446
00:22:35,487 --> 00:22:38,567
Speaker 1: we cast this person because I mean, obviously not the

447
00:22:38,567 --> 00:22:40,847
Speaker 1: main character, but some of the characters have they played

448
00:22:40,887 --> 00:22:44,407
Speaker 1: something similar in something else that's coming out around that time.

449
00:22:44,847 --> 00:22:48,167
Speaker 3: When you are Nicole Kidman, you're the boss, I think

450
00:22:48,327 --> 00:22:50,207
Speaker 3: you get to decide what projects you do.

451
00:22:50,287 --> 00:22:51,367
Speaker 1: And she's produced a lot of that.

452
00:22:51,447 --> 00:22:53,527
Speaker 3: And she's produced a lot. What we don't see a

453
00:22:53,527 --> 00:22:56,767
Speaker 3: lot of is women or people who can work as

454
00:22:56,847 --> 00:22:59,087
Speaker 3: much as Nicole Kidman wanting to work as much as

455
00:22:59,167 --> 00:23:00,567
Speaker 3: Nicole Kidman, like she.

456
00:23:00,727 --> 00:23:02,687
Speaker 1: Must love work.

457
00:23:02,967 --> 00:23:06,727
Speaker 3: I was looking at her IMDb profile and she has

458
00:23:06,887 --> 00:23:09,087
Speaker 3: ninety seven credits to her name, and I kept going

459
00:23:09,087 --> 00:23:11,447
Speaker 3: back going. No, but there's been a recent explosion of

460
00:23:11,527 --> 00:23:16,287
Speaker 3: Nicole Kidman. No, there hasn't. That woman has consistently worked

461
00:23:16,927 --> 00:23:19,327
Speaker 3: for what twenty five thirty year is something like interesting.

462
00:23:19,407 --> 00:23:20,287
Speaker 2: Yeah, she clearly does.

463
00:23:20,207 --> 00:23:20,447
Speaker 8: Love that.

464
00:23:22,047 --> 00:23:25,007
Speaker 2: Because I'm fascinated by ambition. What happens to ambition as

465
00:23:25,007 --> 00:23:28,047
Speaker 2: you get older, too, because you know, a more traditional

466
00:23:28,087 --> 00:23:31,727
Speaker 2: trajectory is you go so hard to establish yourself and

467
00:23:31,767 --> 00:23:34,047
Speaker 2: then you get really picky. I'm now at a point

468
00:23:34,247 --> 00:23:37,127
Speaker 2: not me Nicole Kidman. I'm being Nicole Kidman in the enpoyment.

469
00:23:37,807 --> 00:23:39,847
Speaker 2: I can entirely pick and choose. I don't have to

470
00:23:39,847 --> 00:23:41,647
Speaker 2: do any job to pay the mortgage. I don't have

471
00:23:41,687 --> 00:23:44,487
Speaker 2: to do any job to keep myself in the spotlight.

472
00:23:44,567 --> 00:23:47,687
Speaker 2: Because she's Nicole Kidman, the drive in her to love

473
00:23:47,687 --> 00:23:49,887
Speaker 2: what she does is clearly not slowed down at all.

474
00:23:49,927 --> 00:23:52,447
Speaker 2: She could be on her ranch in Nashville, or at

475
00:23:52,447 --> 00:23:54,847
Speaker 2: her farm in the Southern Highlands here, or kicking back

476
00:23:54,887 --> 00:23:56,647
Speaker 2: on a beach in Hawaii for nine months of the

477
00:23:56,727 --> 00:23:59,127
Speaker 2: year and do one project. But she does not want to,

478
00:23:59,247 --> 00:24:00,647
Speaker 2: And I find that really interesting.

479
00:24:00,767 --> 00:24:03,527
Speaker 3: In twenty nineteen, she was ranked as the fourth highest

480
00:24:03,527 --> 00:24:05,847
Speaker 3: paid actress in the world, with an annual income of

481
00:24:05,887 --> 00:24:09,407
Speaker 3: thirty four million dollars, so she is very, very rich.

482
00:24:09,927 --> 00:24:12,247
Speaker 3: So in the last ten years she's done thirty projects,

483
00:24:12,287 --> 00:24:14,567
Speaker 3: and you think like you've got your big little lies,

484
00:24:14,607 --> 00:24:18,007
Speaker 3: you've got your nine perfect strangers. And that's actually on

485
00:24:18,247 --> 00:24:21,687
Speaker 3: part with two other women of her era. You've got

486
00:24:21,767 --> 00:24:24,327
Speaker 3: Kate Winslet, she's done about thirty, and you've got Kate Blanchett,

487
00:24:24,327 --> 00:24:28,367
Speaker 3: who's also done about thirty. The difference with Nicole Kidman

488
00:24:29,207 --> 00:24:31,847
Speaker 3: is there's this brilliant article written on Slate with the

489
00:24:31,887 --> 00:24:35,647
Speaker 3: headline Nicole Kidman's Beach reads Cinematic Universe, and they say

490
00:24:35,687 --> 00:24:38,647
Speaker 3: it's like the Marvel Universe, where like all the characters

491
00:24:38,767 --> 00:24:41,567
Speaker 3: could possibly be related slash the same characters.

492
00:24:41,607 --> 00:24:44,567
Speaker 1: They literally wear the same clothes. She wears the same wigs.

493
00:24:44,807 --> 00:24:47,767
Speaker 1: She always is sort of like looking wistfully out to see.

494
00:24:47,807 --> 00:24:50,127
Speaker 3: There's a lot of huffing. There's a lot of sighing,

495
00:24:51,167 --> 00:24:54,087
Speaker 3: which is a a state pawn exactly. They say, it's

496
00:24:54,207 --> 00:24:57,447
Speaker 3: kind of like the depressed wine Mum, but like that

497
00:24:57,647 --> 00:25:01,167
Speaker 3: artifice coming undone. So it's like the opening of this

498
00:25:01,207 --> 00:25:03,847
Speaker 3: Slate article is so good. It's like watching the Perfect Couple.

499
00:25:04,007 --> 00:25:06,327
Speaker 3: You kind of go. Wait, didn't we already watch this

500
00:25:06,607 --> 00:25:09,767
Speaker 3: in a scenic coastal location. No, that was big lit lies.

501
00:25:10,087 --> 00:25:12,607
Speaker 3: She's playing a wealthy New Yorker who's adulterous husband may

502
00:25:12,687 --> 00:25:14,567
Speaker 3: or may not have committed murder. Wait, No, that's the

503
00:25:14,647 --> 00:25:16,927
Speaker 3: undoing and it just goes through and there's like six

504
00:25:17,007 --> 00:25:19,847
Speaker 3: that you go, these are all the same thing. And

505
00:25:19,927 --> 00:25:22,487
Speaker 3: one theory is that maybe she's not trying to prove

506
00:25:22,527 --> 00:25:25,007
Speaker 3: herself anymore because she's always gone through eras in her

507
00:25:25,047 --> 00:25:28,527
Speaker 3: career where she's played like complicated mothers or like her

508
00:25:28,567 --> 00:25:30,647
Speaker 3: divorce film was More and Rouge, and they kind of

509
00:25:30,687 --> 00:25:34,167
Speaker 3: go through and see it. But if Nicole Kidman just

510
00:25:34,207 --> 00:25:37,327
Speaker 3: wants to work and she gets a druckload of money

511
00:25:37,727 --> 00:25:40,327
Speaker 3: to go and be a depressed wine mum in Nantucket

512
00:25:40,367 --> 00:25:43,727
Speaker 3: for three weeks, fuck take it. Like there's this theory

513
00:25:43,727 --> 00:25:45,607
Speaker 3: in Hollywood that it's like one for them, one for me,

514
00:25:45,927 --> 00:25:48,367
Speaker 3: Like is she just doing that paying the bills and

515
00:25:48,407 --> 00:25:50,847
Speaker 3: then going and doing some passion project like maybe the

516
00:25:50,887 --> 00:25:52,367
Speaker 3: one she won the baby Girl?

517
00:25:52,447 --> 00:25:54,727
Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe she loves it, because one thing you could

518
00:25:54,847 --> 00:25:56,727
Speaker 2: argue is that another thing that all those things have

519
00:25:56,807 --> 00:25:59,407
Speaker 2: in common is that massive hits, big, little lies, the

520
00:25:59,487 --> 00:26:03,807
Speaker 2: undoing this like everybody's talking about the perfect couple. I've

521
00:26:03,967 --> 00:26:06,487
Speaker 2: started watching it against my will because me have told

522
00:26:06,487 --> 00:26:11,287
Speaker 2: me I should. Yeah, and im in exactly nowhere there

523
00:26:11,327 --> 00:26:12,767
Speaker 2: as good as Big Little Eyes. I'm sorry.

524
00:26:12,927 --> 00:26:13,847
Speaker 1: People should stop.

525
00:26:13,687 --> 00:26:15,487
Speaker 2: Comparing it to that. There's nowhere near that good. But

526
00:26:15,527 --> 00:26:18,167
Speaker 2: it's really good. It's really fun. And so she obviously

527
00:26:18,247 --> 00:26:20,447
Speaker 2: knows what women want to watch, right, yeah, because we're

528
00:26:20,447 --> 00:26:21,167
Speaker 2: all watching it.

529
00:26:21,287 --> 00:26:23,407
Speaker 1: So I think that's a really interesting idea that it's

530
00:26:23,487 --> 00:26:27,247
Speaker 1: not a flaw, it's a feature. So it's not oh whoops,

531
00:26:27,367 --> 00:26:30,887
Speaker 1: the characters are all similar, it's she knows that this

532
00:26:31,047 --> 00:26:34,287
Speaker 1: is what people want to see her be in the

533
00:26:34,327 --> 00:26:37,407
Speaker 1: same way that you know, Tom Cruise just only does

534
00:26:37,447 --> 00:26:39,487
Speaker 1: films where he's jumping out of planes, Like he only

535
00:26:39,567 --> 00:26:42,127
Speaker 1: plays one character. Remember when he did Born of the

536
00:26:42,167 --> 00:26:44,487
Speaker 1: Fourth of July and he did Magnolia, and he was

537
00:26:44,487 --> 00:26:47,607
Speaker 1: making some interesting choices sort of twenty years ago, and

538
00:26:47,647 --> 00:26:50,007
Speaker 1: then it's almost like he decided, no, I'm going to

539
00:26:50,007 --> 00:26:52,087
Speaker 1: give the people what they want, which is me being

540
00:26:52,167 --> 00:26:54,927
Speaker 1: a stunt guy and jumping out of planes. And it's

541
00:26:54,927 --> 00:26:57,487
Speaker 1: almost like she's kind of done the same thing. Whereas

542
00:26:57,527 --> 00:27:01,007
Speaker 1: you look at Kate Winslet and Kate Blanchette, for example,

543
00:27:01,727 --> 00:27:04,607
Speaker 1: And I probably couldn't tell you those thirty projects that

544
00:27:04,607 --> 00:27:08,247
Speaker 1: they've each done because they've been so varied and they

545
00:27:08,287 --> 00:27:10,887
Speaker 1: haven't been as commercially successful as Nichole's.

546
00:27:11,087 --> 00:27:13,527
Speaker 2: Kitmun does do some risky things. I think Baby Girl

547
00:27:13,567 --> 00:27:15,367
Speaker 2: is meant to be risky, and she went through a

548
00:27:15,447 --> 00:27:19,207
Speaker 2: real art house phase. She really did, but it's almost

549
00:27:19,247 --> 00:27:20,287
Speaker 2: like she's left it behind.

550
00:27:20,367 --> 00:27:22,407
Speaker 1: She's meant to be amazing in Baby Girl, but when

551
00:27:22,407 --> 00:27:26,247
Speaker 1: you say risky, she's not putting on a prosthetic nose

552
00:27:26,527 --> 00:27:32,167
Speaker 1: and not plucking her eyebrows, and.

553
00:27:31,687 --> 00:27:33,287
Speaker 2: More to being risky than what you look like.

554
00:27:33,447 --> 00:27:33,687
Speaker 7: Right?

555
00:27:34,007 --> 00:27:37,287
Speaker 2: Is it risky material? Controversial? Material? Difficult?

556
00:27:37,767 --> 00:27:42,007
Speaker 1: I would argue, is it risky for a woman of

557
00:27:42,047 --> 00:27:44,247
Speaker 1: her age to look her age? Because of course, one

558
00:27:44,247 --> 00:27:46,287
Speaker 1: of the things that's kind of disconcerting in this is

559
00:27:46,327 --> 00:27:49,727
Speaker 1: that she's meant to be the matriarch with three adult children,

560
00:27:49,927 --> 00:27:53,247
Speaker 1: which would put her in her fifties, which is and

561
00:27:53,327 --> 00:27:56,527
Speaker 1: yet she looks younger, a lot younger than the young women.

562
00:27:56,687 --> 00:27:57,527
Speaker 1: I disagree.

563
00:27:57,727 --> 00:28:00,687
Speaker 2: I think that it's perfect casting. The character she's playing

564
00:28:00,687 --> 00:28:03,207
Speaker 2: would look like that. That's true, and so as to my

565
00:28:03,247 --> 00:28:06,607
Speaker 2: point before, she doesn't look like a small town cop

566
00:28:06,647 --> 00:28:10,367
Speaker 2: with no money, but she looks exactly like a very successful,

567
00:28:10,607 --> 00:28:13,807
Speaker 2: you know, waspy author with a munchin on Nantucket. That

568
00:28:13,967 --> 00:28:16,007
Speaker 2: is what she would look like. So I think that,

569
00:28:16,607 --> 00:28:19,607
Speaker 2: as I say, the choices she's made allow her to

570
00:28:19,647 --> 00:28:22,047
Speaker 2: play a very certain kind of older woman who does

571
00:28:22,127 --> 00:28:22,727
Speaker 2: look like that.

572
00:28:22,807 --> 00:28:24,407
Speaker 1: So isn't the same as you know, how when an

573
00:28:24,447 --> 00:28:27,927
Speaker 1: author has a bestseller, all of their book covers look

574
00:28:27,967 --> 00:28:30,447
Speaker 1: a bit the same, like Lisa Jule for example, Oh

575
00:28:30,527 --> 00:28:33,967
Speaker 1: you've got to look and vibe for your novels. And

576
00:28:34,087 --> 00:28:37,367
Speaker 1: is that because it's like, oh, I like Nicole Kidman,

577
00:28:37,487 --> 00:28:39,087
Speaker 1: and it's like more of the same. It's if you

578
00:28:39,167 --> 00:28:41,687
Speaker 1: liked Big Little Lies, if you like Nine Perfect Strangers,

579
00:28:41,807 --> 00:28:42,847
Speaker 1: if you like the undoing.

580
00:28:43,567 --> 00:28:46,847
Speaker 3: This just feels like also we're seeing the boom of

581
00:28:47,167 --> 00:28:50,887
Speaker 3: female fiction, which is very new. And the thing about

582
00:28:50,967 --> 00:28:54,447
Speaker 3: contemporary women's fiction is that it also isn't about twenty

583
00:28:54,527 --> 00:28:56,807
Speaker 3: year olds anymore like Big Little Lies. Was a real

584
00:28:56,967 --> 00:28:59,687
Speaker 3: kind of shift in that, and Leanne Moriarty is almost

585
00:28:59,687 --> 00:29:03,407
Speaker 3: synonymous with Nicole Kidman at this point. They obviously did

586
00:29:03,567 --> 00:29:06,047
Speaker 3: Nine Perfect Strangers, and now they're doing what Alice forgot,

587
00:29:06,087 --> 00:29:07,887
Speaker 3: I think is the next one. And I think she's

588
00:29:07,887 --> 00:29:11,287
Speaker 3: attached herself to the those sorts of projects, and so

589
00:29:11,327 --> 00:29:15,287
Speaker 3: she's done the damsel in distress or like the Witch.

590
00:29:15,527 --> 00:29:18,807
Speaker 3: She's done romance. She's done a bunch of stuff. This

591
00:29:19,007 --> 00:29:21,487
Speaker 3: is a current cliche, and this is what the slight

592
00:29:21,607 --> 00:29:25,007
Speaker 3: article said that she's leaning into only to invert it.

593
00:29:25,247 --> 00:29:27,887
Speaker 3: Sometimes I'm not fully seeing the inversion of the cliche.

594
00:29:27,967 --> 00:29:30,047
Speaker 3: To be honest, there's a few two dimensional I really

595
00:29:30,087 --> 00:29:32,967
Speaker 3: struggled with that in A Family Affair where I went

596
00:29:33,807 --> 00:29:36,687
Speaker 3: what's difficult is when you know what Nicole Kidman is

597
00:29:36,727 --> 00:29:39,127
Speaker 3: capable of. She's one of the best actresses alive.

598
00:29:39,327 --> 00:29:42,247
Speaker 1: There were some real glimpses of it in this. Yeah,

599
00:29:42,407 --> 00:29:43,287
Speaker 1: I found even.

600
00:29:43,127 --> 00:29:45,047
Speaker 2: In the first episode. I think she's great in it.

601
00:29:45,167 --> 00:29:46,567
Speaker 3: I'm not understanding the accent.

602
00:29:47,047 --> 00:29:47,327
Speaker 4: This is.

603
00:29:47,567 --> 00:29:49,327
Speaker 1: This is something that's happened with a British accent.

604
00:29:49,367 --> 00:29:50,887
Speaker 2: I don't English accent.

605
00:29:50,967 --> 00:29:52,847
Speaker 3: In the last two shows she's done, she has a

606
00:29:52,887 --> 00:29:55,207
Speaker 3: completely different accent to the rest of her family, which

607
00:29:55,287 --> 00:29:55,967
Speaker 3: isn't offul well.

608
00:29:56,007 --> 00:29:59,607
Speaker 1: No, she's Australian in the last one in a Family Affair,

609
00:29:59,687 --> 00:30:01,047
Speaker 1: and she's a brit in this one.

610
00:30:01,167 --> 00:30:02,967
Speaker 3: Why isn't she just doing an American accent?

611
00:30:03,007 --> 00:30:03,687
Speaker 2: It's distracting.

612
00:30:05,487 --> 00:30:09,127
Speaker 1: I think great in the perfect contest nd a normal accent.

613
00:30:10,087 --> 00:30:12,447
Speaker 1: Now that as we will be talking about this, stay

614
00:30:12,447 --> 00:30:15,367
Speaker 1: tuned for an upcoming subscriber episode. You can watch this

615
00:30:15,407 --> 00:30:19,887
Speaker 1: on Netflix Really good, easily bingeable, six hours, go hard.

616
00:30:21,847 --> 00:30:25,847
Speaker 3: One, unlimited out loud access. We drop episodes every Tuesday

617
00:30:25,847 --> 00:30:30,087
Speaker 3: and Thursday exclusively from Mum and MEA subscribers follow the

618
00:30:30,127 --> 00:30:32,007
Speaker 3: link in the show notes to get us in your

619
00:30:32,007 --> 00:30:34,847
Speaker 3: ears five days a week, and a huge thank you

620
00:30:35,007 --> 00:30:44,687
Speaker 3: to all our current subscribers. Period tracking, cycle sinking, femtech

621
00:30:44,807 --> 00:30:48,767
Speaker 3: and meno washing. Has capitalism finally weaseled its way into

622
00:30:48,767 --> 00:30:52,127
Speaker 3: my ovaries. There's a few things going on here, and

623
00:30:52,167 --> 00:30:54,447
Speaker 3: I want to start with an experience I had last week.

624
00:30:54,967 --> 00:30:56,807
Speaker 3: My husband was out with a bunch of friends and

625
00:30:56,847 --> 00:30:59,127
Speaker 3: I got a message from him saying, my friend has

626
00:30:59,127 --> 00:31:02,207
Speaker 3: the flow app on his phone that tracks his girlfriend's cycle.

627
00:31:02,607 --> 00:31:05,887
Speaker 3: Maybe we should do this, and I promptly replied, fuck off.

628
00:31:07,247 --> 00:31:09,207
Speaker 3: To be clear, this isn't It's not about baby make

629
00:31:09,807 --> 00:31:12,967
Speaker 3: It's about working out. When I am pre menstrul do

630
00:31:13,167 --> 00:31:14,087
Speaker 3: I get perms?

631
00:31:14,607 --> 00:31:15,287
Speaker 1: Absolutely?

632
00:31:15,847 --> 00:31:18,967
Speaker 3: Is that information I would like to share with my partner. No,

633
00:31:19,487 --> 00:31:20,807
Speaker 3: I like to keep them Onney's toast.

634
00:31:21,007 --> 00:31:23,847
Speaker 1: Why I would like everybody if I still had a cycle,

635
00:31:23,847 --> 00:31:25,447
Speaker 1: I would like everybody to know what it was.

636
00:31:25,527 --> 00:31:30,127
Speaker 3: Now it's to mining. Oh my goodness, it's so onto mining.

637
00:31:30,167 --> 00:31:33,207
Speaker 3: And this isn't just about period tracking. It has some

638
00:31:33,367 --> 00:31:36,967
Speaker 3: incredible benefits. It can anticipate symptoms, it compiles health data,

639
00:31:37,007 --> 00:31:39,967
Speaker 3: and it can potentially assist with the diagnosis of things

640
00:31:39,967 --> 00:31:44,287
Speaker 3: like PCOS or endo. This about an industry because everywhere

641
00:31:44,327 --> 00:31:47,607
Speaker 3: I look, I am being sold something like cycle sinking

642
00:31:47,767 --> 00:31:50,967
Speaker 3: exercise regimes. Have you guys seen this? Yeah, no, okay,

643
00:31:51,007 --> 00:31:54,167
Speaker 3: big in my world. It's probably because you're perry, so

644
00:31:54,167 --> 00:31:57,007
Speaker 3: they're just like, she's a right off, I'm met her now, Yeah, exactly.

645
00:31:57,647 --> 00:31:59,807
Speaker 3: So your algorithms, No, you don't need it, but it's

646
00:31:59,847 --> 00:32:03,567
Speaker 3: where your exercise regime is based on where you are

647
00:32:03,567 --> 00:32:07,047
Speaker 3: in your cycle, so you know, when you're on new period,

648
00:32:07,087 --> 00:32:08,687
Speaker 3: you shouldn't do this, but you should do more of

649
00:32:08,687 --> 00:32:11,727
Speaker 3: this or whatever. Yeah, there's fertility courses, there are new

650
00:32:11,767 --> 00:32:14,527
Speaker 3: gadgets to assist with period pain. There's moon caups and

651
00:32:14,527 --> 00:32:17,327
Speaker 3: period undies. There's a new industry that a lot of

652
00:32:17,407 --> 00:32:20,727
Speaker 3: experts are now riding about and it's being referred to

653
00:32:20,727 --> 00:32:24,367
Speaker 3: as the absolute gold rush of menopause. So in the UK,

654
00:32:24,487 --> 00:32:29,327
Speaker 3: for example, Tesco has announced it's trialing menopause friendly aisles

655
00:32:29,367 --> 00:32:32,367
Speaker 3: in stores and it's got skincare and vitamins and special

656
00:32:32,367 --> 00:32:33,607
Speaker 3: pads for ladies.

657
00:32:33,607 --> 00:32:36,007
Speaker 2: They've worked out that the older ladies have the money.

658
00:32:36,127 --> 00:32:36,967
Speaker 3: Yeah exactly.

659
00:32:37,207 --> 00:32:39,607
Speaker 1: There also be no people in that aisle, so true,

660
00:32:39,727 --> 00:32:41,007
Speaker 1: people are bloody annoying.

661
00:32:41,447 --> 00:32:44,367
Speaker 3: I want to know, are we all being taken for

662
00:32:44,407 --> 00:32:48,367
Speaker 3: a ride or should we be excited that whole new

663
00:32:48,407 --> 00:32:51,847
Speaker 3: industries are being funded to cater to our needs?

664
00:32:52,007 --> 00:32:55,207
Speaker 1: Both okay, both yes and yes. And there are a

665
00:32:55,207 --> 00:32:58,727
Speaker 1: lot of people who are launching whole brands for menopause

666
00:32:58,727 --> 00:33:00,887
Speaker 1: and women like Naomi Watts has got a brand called

667
00:33:00,927 --> 00:33:06,007
Speaker 1: Stripes that does everything from lubricant for vaginal dryness to

668
00:33:07,047 --> 00:33:09,727
Speaker 1: shampoo and yeah fake so I can run.

669
00:33:09,847 --> 00:33:12,967
Speaker 3: I mean, that's genuinely something that is a symptom of

670
00:33:13,007 --> 00:33:14,927
Speaker 3: that period of your life. So that's solving a problem

671
00:33:14,927 --> 00:33:16,007
Speaker 3: that exists, right.

672
00:33:15,887 --> 00:33:18,367
Speaker 1: But what I think so lovely about it? And I

673
00:33:18,447 --> 00:33:21,687
Speaker 1: take your point, but like capitalism is always sold to women.

674
00:33:22,087 --> 00:33:25,607
Speaker 1: Thanks for including us and not ignoring us, because I

675
00:33:25,727 --> 00:33:28,487
Speaker 1: much prefer being sold to as a woman of my

676
00:33:28,607 --> 00:33:32,047
Speaker 1: age then products being sold to me by twenty year

677
00:33:32,087 --> 00:33:36,407
Speaker 1: olds who are advertising anti wrinkle creams, Like, thanks at

678
00:33:36,487 --> 00:33:39,687
Speaker 1: least for acknowledging that I exist. And there are certain

679
00:33:39,727 --> 00:33:43,287
Speaker 1: things that are specific about being this age.

680
00:33:43,327 --> 00:33:44,927
Speaker 3: How about a tea? Do you need a special tea?

681
00:33:45,167 --> 00:33:47,967
Speaker 1: Well, no, I don't need a special tea, but if

682
00:33:48,007 --> 00:33:52,007
Speaker 1: someone finds that tea nice. What's the most important thing

683
00:33:52,047 --> 00:33:54,567
Speaker 1: for women is information, not products, to be honest, and

684
00:33:54,607 --> 00:33:56,807
Speaker 1: that's where we sit and that's why we had the

685
00:33:56,927 --> 00:33:59,527
Speaker 1: Very Pery Summit and why we'll be doing more around

686
00:33:59,527 --> 00:34:03,047
Speaker 1: that next year because women need information. Do they need

687
00:34:03,087 --> 00:34:05,167
Speaker 1: to buy products? I would argue that they need to

688
00:34:05,247 --> 00:34:09,407
Speaker 1: know whether or not they should use HIT and whether

689
00:34:09,567 --> 00:34:11,407
Speaker 1: or not there are certain things that they might just

690
00:34:11,447 --> 00:34:13,567
Speaker 1: think are just them. They might just think that their

691
00:34:13,647 --> 00:34:16,807
Speaker 1: vaginal dryness or their skin dryness, or their ezatia is

692
00:34:17,047 --> 00:34:20,567
Speaker 1: just them, or their weight game or their forgetfulness. They

693
00:34:20,727 --> 00:34:23,087
Speaker 1: might not understand what it is. And by telling them, hey,

694
00:34:23,167 --> 00:34:26,807
Speaker 1: all these random seeming symptoms they're all connected. They're all

695
00:34:26,847 --> 00:34:30,927
Speaker 1: because you're lacking estrogen and your body's going through reverth puberty.

696
00:34:31,327 --> 00:34:35,927
Speaker 1: It's like, Oh, it's very normalizing now. Whether you choose

697
00:34:36,167 --> 00:34:39,647
Speaker 1: to buy products to treat those things or not is

698
00:34:39,687 --> 00:34:42,167
Speaker 1: then up to you. But the most important thing is

699
00:34:42,167 --> 00:34:44,207
Speaker 1: the information. I agree with me or on this.

700
00:34:44,727 --> 00:34:46,687
Speaker 2: But I want to go back to the variot tracking

701
00:34:46,727 --> 00:34:49,047
Speaker 2: app and though whether or not your partners should.

702
00:34:48,807 --> 00:34:51,687
Speaker 1: Have oh to your worst nightmare whole that's terrible.

703
00:34:52,047 --> 00:34:53,687
Speaker 2: I can't believe that's terrible.

704
00:34:53,727 --> 00:34:55,567
Speaker 1: Can you guys explain to me why it's terrible?

705
00:34:55,767 --> 00:34:57,527
Speaker 2: This is what I would think. I don't know. I

706
00:34:57,527 --> 00:35:00,287
Speaker 2: can't speak for Jess. She'll speak for herself. The problem

707
00:35:00,327 --> 00:35:03,127
Speaker 2: with your partner and the people around you, and your

708
00:35:03,167 --> 00:35:06,687
Speaker 2: colleagues and whoever. Knowing that, oh, she's pmassing as it means, Oh,

709
00:35:06,767 --> 00:35:10,047
Speaker 2: I get to disregard everything you say a day.

710
00:35:10,247 --> 00:35:11,727
Speaker 1: But that's it's not.

711
00:35:11,607 --> 00:35:14,247
Speaker 2: True that your hormones are so in charge of your

712
00:35:14,287 --> 00:35:16,327
Speaker 2: life that there's no truth to any of the things.

713
00:35:16,447 --> 00:35:19,087
Speaker 1: So's there's a lot of truth exactly.

714
00:35:19,207 --> 00:35:22,567
Speaker 2: It's like if I lose my ship because you keep

715
00:35:22,607 --> 00:35:25,807
Speaker 2: putting your cup on the edge of the dishwasher instead

716
00:35:25,807 --> 00:35:28,687
Speaker 2: of putting it in the dishwasher, and I'm more likely

717
00:35:28,727 --> 00:35:31,047
Speaker 2: to lose my ship the day before my period about that.

718
00:35:31,127 --> 00:35:33,167
Speaker 1: So why wouldn't you want it doesn't mean somebody to

719
00:35:33,247 --> 00:35:36,167
Speaker 1: know that, because he'll go, oh, she's just pay messing

720
00:35:36,207 --> 00:35:37,687
Speaker 1: and not think, oh, I should put my cup in

721
00:35:37,687 --> 00:35:40,727
Speaker 1: the dishwater. See, you've clearly got awful partners, because what

722
00:35:40,807 --> 00:35:45,447
Speaker 1: I would like to believe is that my partner would go, Okay,

723
00:35:45,527 --> 00:35:48,447
Speaker 1: that's not the time to bring this up or do that.

724
00:35:48,567 --> 00:35:53,007
Speaker 1: I'm gonna treat her with some special t LC because.

725
00:35:53,647 --> 00:35:56,327
Speaker 3: Sensitive little flowers are so so we then we just

726
00:35:56,407 --> 00:35:58,247
Speaker 3: tiptoe around the crazy home.

727
00:36:01,447 --> 00:36:06,927
Speaker 1: Before period. Frankly appreciated if everybody really took a little

728
00:36:06,927 --> 00:36:09,167
Speaker 1: bit of better care of me before I have.

729
00:36:09,847 --> 00:36:11,647
Speaker 2: This is the problem with this is if there is

730
00:36:11,687 --> 00:36:14,847
Speaker 2: a tension in this that we've discussed before about that idea.

731
00:36:14,967 --> 00:36:16,927
Speaker 2: You know, it used to be where women can't be

732
00:36:17,207 --> 00:36:20,007
Speaker 2: in powerful positions because they're too emotional X amount of

733
00:36:20,087 --> 00:36:21,967
Speaker 2: days of the year. You couldn't trust the decisions that

734
00:36:21,967 --> 00:36:24,407
Speaker 2: they'd make, You couldn't trust the calls they'd make. Shouldn't

735
00:36:24,447 --> 00:36:26,847
Speaker 2: let them hire anyone, fire anyone, make any important calls

736
00:36:26,847 --> 00:36:29,647
Speaker 2: about things. Of course, there's a lot of truth and

737
00:36:29,727 --> 00:36:32,127
Speaker 2: science to hormones, and it's great that we're all learning

738
00:36:32,127 --> 00:36:35,047
Speaker 2: more about it. But this is what worries me about

739
00:36:35,087 --> 00:36:39,327
Speaker 2: us leaning so heavily into the hormonal story of our life.

740
00:36:39,887 --> 00:36:43,887
Speaker 2: It can so easily be weaponized against us. And you're right,

741
00:36:43,927 --> 00:36:46,607
Speaker 2: Mia that lovely, well meaning people won't do that. But

742
00:36:46,647 --> 00:36:49,047
Speaker 2: the world isn't full of lovely, well meaning people. And

743
00:36:49,127 --> 00:36:52,967
Speaker 2: also even if they are, those tropes are so ingrained

744
00:36:52,967 --> 00:36:55,767
Speaker 2: in our culture. This idea of like, oh, she must

745
00:36:55,767 --> 00:36:58,367
Speaker 2: be p messing if she's angry about something, rather than

746
00:36:58,607 --> 00:37:00,967
Speaker 2: maybe she's got a really valid reason to be angry

747
00:37:00,967 --> 00:37:03,287
Speaker 2: about something. We don't want to hand more of that

748
00:37:03,367 --> 00:37:03,807
Speaker 2: to people.

749
00:37:03,927 --> 00:37:07,447
Speaker 1: Well, the sort of Handmaid's tale side of this is

750
00:37:07,487 --> 00:37:12,047
Speaker 1: in America, since rovers Way was overturned, a lot of

751
00:37:12,087 --> 00:37:14,367
Speaker 1: people have been saying, you should take those apps off

752
00:37:14,407 --> 00:37:17,887
Speaker 1: your phones because they can be co opted potentially by

753
00:37:18,007 --> 00:37:20,367
Speaker 1: legislation to track your periods. I mean, that's what Project

754
00:37:20,407 --> 00:37:23,807
Speaker 1: twenty twenty five, which is this blueprint for what conservatives

755
00:37:23,847 --> 00:37:26,327
Speaker 1: want to do if Trump wins the election. It includes

756
00:37:26,447 --> 00:37:29,847
Speaker 1: women's cycles being tracked. When this sounds like something out

757
00:37:29,887 --> 00:37:33,487
Speaker 1: of a horror film, it's very dystopian, but this idea

758
00:37:33,527 --> 00:37:35,287
Speaker 1: of we do want to track women so yes, it

759
00:37:35,287 --> 00:37:37,767
Speaker 1: can be used for nefarious purposes, and we must remember that.

760
00:37:38,247 --> 00:37:41,327
Speaker 1: But one of the things I always used to find

761
00:37:41,447 --> 00:37:45,487
Speaker 1: hardest about my PMS, and also about Perry, which is

762
00:37:45,607 --> 00:37:49,407
Speaker 1: very similar in mood swings of it, was that I

763
00:37:49,447 --> 00:37:52,167
Speaker 1: would never realize that's what was going on. I would

764
00:37:52,287 --> 00:37:54,887
Speaker 1: just think that everyone was awful. My relationship was awful,

765
00:37:54,887 --> 00:37:57,847
Speaker 1: I was awful, life was awful. And sometimes I like

766
00:37:57,967 --> 00:38:00,807
Speaker 1: a third party to just give me a little reality

767
00:38:00,887 --> 00:38:03,927
Speaker 1: check and just say, hey, could be because a bit.

768
00:38:03,887 --> 00:38:07,327
Speaker 3: I think though, Just firstly on the privacy thing, I

769
00:38:07,367 --> 00:38:10,447
Speaker 3: think that's an important point because the idea too is

770
00:38:10,487 --> 00:38:13,367
Speaker 3: that if it is illegal for you to have an abortion,

771
00:38:13,447 --> 00:38:15,687
Speaker 3: then that could lead to criminal proceedings.

772
00:38:15,207 --> 00:38:16,207
Speaker 1: And use contraception.

773
00:38:16,447 --> 00:38:19,407
Speaker 3: And as part of criminal proceedings, you can get data

774
00:38:19,447 --> 00:38:23,447
Speaker 3: off someone's phone and your abortion or your pregnancy would

775
00:38:23,527 --> 00:38:26,127
Speaker 3: be logged in your phone. So that's a problem. The

776
00:38:26,167 --> 00:38:29,687
Speaker 3: other problem is sharing that data with advertisers so that

777
00:38:29,767 --> 00:38:32,167
Speaker 3: they know, oh, at this point of a cycle, she

778
00:38:32,287 --> 00:38:34,247
Speaker 3: might be more likely to buy this kind of thing

779
00:38:34,247 --> 00:38:36,487
Speaker 3: and being manipulated, which I hate all that shit.

780
00:38:36,607 --> 00:38:38,527
Speaker 1: Read the fine print before you download those apps.

781
00:38:38,607 --> 00:38:41,007
Speaker 3: Yeah, But the other thing is if I'm in my

782
00:38:41,047 --> 00:38:46,127
Speaker 3: local supermarket, and there is menopause aisles right for like,

783
00:38:46,447 --> 00:38:48,607
Speaker 3: you know, you need your special pad, and you need

784
00:38:48,607 --> 00:38:51,487
Speaker 3: your specialty and your skin care and your vitamins. And

785
00:38:51,527 --> 00:38:54,127
Speaker 3: then I walk into work and I'm working with women

786
00:38:54,167 --> 00:38:58,487
Speaker 3: who are of menopausal age. Is it not reshaping how

787
00:38:58,527 --> 00:39:01,967
Speaker 3: we see women? Like we've wanted to divorce women a

788
00:39:01,967 --> 00:39:04,727
Speaker 3: little bit from their hormones, and at a moment where

789
00:39:05,367 --> 00:39:08,967
Speaker 3: women are becoming their reproductive capacities again in a very

790
00:39:09,047 --> 00:39:09,967
Speaker 3: very dangerous way.

791
00:39:10,047 --> 00:39:11,167
Speaker 1: I just worry that these.

792
00:39:11,007 --> 00:39:13,647
Speaker 2: Two things could be I agree, I sympathize with this

793
00:39:13,687 --> 00:39:16,527
Speaker 2: because I agree with me that I think it's great

794
00:39:16,567 --> 00:39:20,367
Speaker 2: that we are much more aware now of menopause and

795
00:39:20,407 --> 00:39:23,367
Speaker 2: all the things that come along with it. But we

796
00:39:23,407 --> 00:39:25,647
Speaker 2: did an episode of mid about rage, and in it

797
00:39:25,687 --> 00:39:29,127
Speaker 2: we were discussing myself and just interparsons how there is

798
00:39:29,167 --> 00:39:32,687
Speaker 2: an element of midlife rage which is directly related to

799
00:39:32,687 --> 00:39:35,967
Speaker 2: a plunge in estrogen right there, That's true. But there

800
00:39:36,007 --> 00:39:40,127
Speaker 2: is also an element of midlife rage that's about just

801
00:39:40,287 --> 00:39:45,047
Speaker 2: having had enough of spending years and years putting yourself

802
00:39:45,087 --> 00:39:46,567
Speaker 2: at the end of a list, putting up with a

803
00:39:46,607 --> 00:39:49,887
Speaker 2: whole lot of crap, caretaking all the time living in

804
00:39:49,927 --> 00:39:52,807
Speaker 2: a world where you're often told to shush and smile

805
00:39:52,927 --> 00:39:55,567
Speaker 2: and be nice. That when women get to that place

806
00:39:55,607 --> 00:40:01,127
Speaker 2: sometimes where things boil over and they go the cliches

807
00:40:01,167 --> 00:40:04,047
Speaker 2: about older women, no folks left to give all that stuff,

808
00:40:04,287 --> 00:40:07,447
Speaker 2: there's an element of truth in that that is really important.

809
00:40:07,487 --> 00:40:10,047
Speaker 2: And I think, while it's imp I want to understand

810
00:40:10,087 --> 00:40:13,887
Speaker 2: the science, it shouldn't all be dismissed as science. It's

811
00:40:13,887 --> 00:40:15,607
Speaker 2: the same I used to feel the same way when

812
00:40:15,647 --> 00:40:17,927
Speaker 2: I was pregnant. There was a sort of strain of

813
00:40:17,967 --> 00:40:21,247
Speaker 2: being easily dismissed when you're pregnant. Baby brain. Now there

814
00:40:21,287 --> 00:40:24,887
Speaker 2: is some scientific truth to that, right, But also pregnant

815
00:40:24,927 --> 00:40:27,567
Speaker 2: women can do amazing things. They can run countries, as

816
00:40:27,647 --> 00:40:30,567
Speaker 2: just Cindra ar Durn showed us. They can certainly run businesses,

817
00:40:30,767 --> 00:40:33,047
Speaker 2: They can do all kinds of incredible things. They don't

818
00:40:33,087 --> 00:40:38,447
Speaker 2: become lobotomized idiots because their hormones are doing things. So

819
00:40:39,047 --> 00:40:41,487
Speaker 2: I agree it's a fine line to walk. It's like,

820
00:40:42,367 --> 00:40:44,527
Speaker 2: we want to be understood, we want to be empowered.

821
00:40:44,567 --> 00:40:47,807
Speaker 2: And when I was really struggling with Perry symptoms in particular,

822
00:40:48,367 --> 00:40:52,767
Speaker 2: I tried every tea, every cream, every supplement, to try

823
00:40:52,807 --> 00:40:54,527
Speaker 2: and help me with some things, and some of them

824
00:40:54,567 --> 00:40:57,087
Speaker 2: really did and some of them really didn't, and you

825
00:40:57,087 --> 00:40:58,607
Speaker 2: know that was that, and I was glad they were there.

826
00:40:58,607 --> 00:41:00,327
Speaker 2: And a lot of those are businesses started by women

827
00:41:00,367 --> 00:41:04,007
Speaker 2: who can see a gap. But it's not everything. It's

828
00:41:04,087 --> 00:41:06,527
Speaker 2: exactly where you started mere, which is like, yes, and yes,

829
00:41:06,647 --> 00:41:08,967
Speaker 2: it's great that the science is improved. It's great we've

830
00:41:08,967 --> 00:41:12,487
Speaker 2: got more awareness, but also let's not dismiss women as

831
00:41:12,527 --> 00:41:14,047
Speaker 2: just walking balls of hormones.

832
00:41:14,087 --> 00:41:16,607
Speaker 3: And it's also at the moment it's a bit the

833
00:41:16,607 --> 00:41:20,527
Speaker 3: wild West because the science and the investment in the femtech.

834
00:41:20,687 --> 00:41:23,687
Speaker 3: Like I look at the incredible explosion of devices to

835
00:41:23,687 --> 00:41:26,367
Speaker 3: help with period pain and I'm like, that's amazing. I mean,

836
00:41:26,727 --> 00:41:30,087
Speaker 3: I've been spending money on medication ever since i got

837
00:41:30,087 --> 00:41:32,287
Speaker 3: my first period, and now that you would have people

838
00:41:32,327 --> 00:41:34,847
Speaker 3: are using tens machines or they're using these heat packs

839
00:41:34,847 --> 00:41:38,447
Speaker 3: and they're trialing them. I'm like fantastic, Or like invest

840
00:41:38,567 --> 00:41:41,847
Speaker 3: in endometriosis when they test for it and they're able

841
00:41:41,887 --> 00:41:44,527
Speaker 3: to find it. But what I worry about is then

842
00:41:44,727 --> 00:41:47,567
Speaker 3: all of this stuff popping up online that's unregulated, that

843
00:41:47,567 --> 00:41:49,967
Speaker 3: a products that don't work or courses that don't work

844
00:41:50,367 --> 00:41:54,367
Speaker 3: because you've got a I guess people who are desperate

845
00:41:54,567 --> 00:41:57,407
Speaker 3: who have been ignored by medical science for most of

846
00:41:57,447 --> 00:41:58,247
Speaker 3: his way, which.

847
00:41:58,007 --> 00:42:01,407
Speaker 1: Brings us back to l and why it's important to

848
00:42:01,447 --> 00:42:05,807
Speaker 1: have responsible information from responsible sources. And that's why with

849
00:42:05,927 --> 00:42:08,007
Speaker 1: the very Peri summit that we did and that we'll

850
00:42:08,007 --> 00:42:10,847
Speaker 1: be doing it again next year, it wasn't us just

851
00:42:10,887 --> 00:42:14,007
Speaker 1: saying and getting an influencer. We brought the leading experts

852
00:42:14,167 --> 00:42:16,327
Speaker 1: from around the world to give information and what we

853
00:42:16,487 --> 00:42:18,967
Speaker 1: decided to do with that information is then up to them.

854
00:42:19,607 --> 00:42:24,207
Speaker 1: But you're presenting reputable information and no one's trying to

855
00:42:24,247 --> 00:42:25,807
Speaker 1: sell you something out loud.

856
00:42:25,807 --> 00:42:28,447
Speaker 3: As I want to know if you would feel comfortable

857
00:42:28,487 --> 00:42:32,527
Speaker 3: with partner, friends, even colleagues perhaps tracking your period. We

858
00:42:32,807 --> 00:42:36,007
Speaker 3: asked the women in the Mummeya office how they feel

859
00:42:36,047 --> 00:42:38,087
Speaker 3: about it. Most of them have tracking apps on their

860
00:42:38,127 --> 00:42:39,727
Speaker 3: phone and here is what they said.

861
00:42:40,927 --> 00:42:44,967
Speaker 5: I used the period tracker app called Glow, and I

862
00:42:45,007 --> 00:42:47,967
Speaker 5: absolutely think it'd be great if my partner had access

863
00:42:48,007 --> 00:42:51,487
Speaker 5: to this so then he could prepare for how I'm

864
00:42:51,487 --> 00:42:54,327
Speaker 5: feeling throughout the month. Apparently every month is like the

865
00:42:54,367 --> 00:42:58,247
Speaker 5: four seasons, so like winter being PMS, so it'd be

866
00:42:58,327 --> 00:43:00,807
Speaker 5: great if he knew about this and could be extra

867
00:43:00,967 --> 00:43:02,727
Speaker 5: nice and buy me things.

868
00:43:03,647 --> 00:43:06,487
Speaker 6: Look, I use a period tracking app, but I just

869
00:43:06,527 --> 00:43:08,487
Speaker 6: don't see the need for my partner to be up

870
00:43:08,647 --> 00:43:11,327
Speaker 6: all in my business in that regard. If I need something,

871
00:43:11,487 --> 00:43:13,727
Speaker 6: or I need support, or I need to communicate to him,

872
00:43:13,767 --> 00:43:15,367
Speaker 6: I'll just tetle him myself.

873
00:43:15,807 --> 00:43:20,127
Speaker 7: I would actually love if my partner had access to

874
00:43:20,207 --> 00:43:22,687
Speaker 7: my flow app, because I don't think you'd use it

875
00:43:22,687 --> 00:43:25,047
Speaker 7: against me. I feel like he would just you know,

876
00:43:25,367 --> 00:43:27,927
Speaker 7: make me food or be nicer to me when he

877
00:43:28,007 --> 00:43:28,487
Speaker 7: needs to be.

878
00:43:28,847 --> 00:43:34,487
Speaker 9: I don't currently use a period tracker app. I don't

879
00:43:34,567 --> 00:43:39,327
Speaker 9: think my partner needs to see it personally. If he

880
00:43:39,447 --> 00:43:42,567
Speaker 9: needs to know, we can have a conversation about it.

881
00:43:42,727 --> 00:43:45,927
Speaker 1: But I can't really think of a reason why he

882
00:43:46,007 --> 00:43:47,007
Speaker 1: would need to know.

883
00:43:47,407 --> 00:43:51,047
Speaker 10: I use both flow and Natural Cycles, and I let

884
00:43:51,087 --> 00:43:54,287
Speaker 10: my partner or ex partner have access to it so

885
00:43:54,327 --> 00:43:56,287
Speaker 10: you can track my period in my fertility because I

886
00:43:56,327 --> 00:43:59,087
Speaker 10: feel like it shouldn't just be on me. It's like

887
00:43:59,087 --> 00:44:01,487
Speaker 10: a partnership. So yeah, I let him track so he

888
00:44:01,567 --> 00:44:02,887
Speaker 10: kne when I was my period was coming in, when

889
00:44:02,887 --> 00:44:03,687
Speaker 10: I was gonna be fertile.

890
00:44:04,407 --> 00:44:06,767
Speaker 4: Look from a fertility perspective. I totally get it. You're

891
00:44:06,807 --> 00:44:08,287
Speaker 4: both looking out for that window and you know you

892
00:44:08,327 --> 00:44:10,927
Speaker 4: want to jump on it. But any other time, no,

893
00:44:11,047 --> 00:44:14,127
Speaker 4: thank you. That's my business. I don't need you inside

894
00:44:14,127 --> 00:44:17,127
Speaker 4: my uterus as a man for any reason, whether you

895
00:44:17,207 --> 00:44:20,167
Speaker 4: are government trying to make legislation or my husband. That

896
00:44:20,327 --> 00:44:23,967
Speaker 4: is literally just my business. And you can reach out

897
00:44:24,007 --> 00:44:26,367
Speaker 4: and say I noticed you're feeling a little bit emotional

898
00:44:26,367 --> 00:44:26,647
Speaker 4: this week.

899
00:44:26,767 --> 00:44:27,127
Speaker 1: You okay?

900
00:44:27,167 --> 00:44:30,007
Speaker 4: Can I help you? You don't need an app to

901
00:44:30,087 --> 00:44:32,847
Speaker 4: track that and inform you when I have PMS. No,

902
00:44:32,967 --> 00:44:33,607
Speaker 4: thank you, sir.

903
00:44:34,407 --> 00:44:36,687
Speaker 2: That's all we've got time for this Monday. A massive

904
00:44:36,767 --> 00:44:39,007
Speaker 2: thank you to all of you out louders for listening

905
00:44:39,047 --> 00:44:41,527
Speaker 2: to today's show, and of course to our wonderful team

906
00:44:41,527 --> 00:44:43,807
Speaker 2: for putting this show together. We will be back in

907
00:44:43,807 --> 00:44:46,727
Speaker 2: your ears tomorrow with a rundown of what happened at

908
00:44:46,727 --> 00:44:50,247
Speaker 2: the Emmys today. Bye bye bye.

909
00:44:50,807 --> 00:44:53,967
Speaker 1: Shout out to any Mum and Maya subscribers listening. If

910
00:44:54,007 --> 00:44:56,567
Speaker 1: you love the show and want to support us as well,

911
00:44:56,767 --> 00:44:59,287
Speaker 1: subscribing to MoMA Mia is the very best way to

912
00:44:59,327 --> 00:45:01,727
Speaker 1: do so. There is a link in the episode description