1 00:00:08,234 --> 00:00:11,474 Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast. 2 00:00:18,674 --> 00:00:21,433 Speaker 2: From Mama Mia. Welcome to the Spill your daily pop 3 00:00:21,474 --> 00:00:24,754 Speaker 2: culture fix. I'm Laura Brodnek and I'm am Vernon And 4 00:00:24,954 --> 00:00:27,154 Speaker 2: coming up on the show today, is it okay to 5 00:00:27,234 --> 00:00:29,514 Speaker 2: like Benigan? That's the topic we've got to be tackling. 6 00:00:29,874 --> 00:00:32,114 Speaker 2: It is in the zeitgeist. It is affecting everyone in 7 00:00:32,114 --> 00:00:34,434 Speaker 2: the world and we need to break it down. Plus 8 00:00:34,554 --> 00:00:38,153 Speaker 2: the one place on the Internet that celebrities are not welcome, 9 00:00:38,193 --> 00:00:41,233 Speaker 2: We're going to delve into that. But first big night 10 00:00:41,273 --> 00:00:43,153 Speaker 2: in Australian music last night, Oh. 11 00:00:43,034 --> 00:00:44,873 Speaker 3: My god, I was so jealous of the girl so 12 00:00:44,873 --> 00:00:46,994 Speaker 3: I got to go to the ARIA Awards last night. 13 00:00:47,153 --> 00:00:49,394 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, because have you not been to Thery Awards before? 14 00:00:49,674 --> 00:00:49,874 Speaker 3: Never? 15 00:00:49,954 --> 00:00:51,434 Speaker 2: We need to get you on the listen next of 16 00:00:51,513 --> 00:00:51,994 Speaker 2: your life? 17 00:00:51,994 --> 00:00:52,673 Speaker 3: Have I ever been? 18 00:00:52,754 --> 00:00:54,074 Speaker 2: Okay, we need to get you a ticket. It's a 19 00:00:54,114 --> 00:00:56,394 Speaker 2: fun night because with the awards you also have all 20 00:00:56,434 --> 00:00:59,074 Speaker 2: these incredible people performing. So I knew you hadn't been 21 00:00:59,074 --> 00:01:00,594 Speaker 2: Sarrios before. I was just like in my head, I'm 22 00:01:00,794 --> 00:01:02,754 Speaker 2: making like a mental note to get you to go 23 00:01:02,834 --> 00:01:03,313 Speaker 2: next year. 24 00:01:03,394 --> 00:01:05,794 Speaker 3: I could have gone to a free Olivia Dean concert. 25 00:01:05,914 --> 00:01:09,234 Speaker 2: Oh my god, I know Dan being there. She is 26 00:01:09,274 --> 00:01:11,754 Speaker 2: incredible live. I went to an event like I think 27 00:01:11,754 --> 00:01:13,754 Speaker 2: it's the beginning of this year when she she was 28 00:01:13,754 --> 00:01:16,154 Speaker 2: blowing up, but she wasn't kind of where she was now. 29 00:01:16,314 --> 00:01:17,954 Speaker 2: She just came on stage to a few songs in 30 00:01:17,994 --> 00:01:18,754 Speaker 2: this tiny room. 31 00:01:18,834 --> 00:01:20,914 Speaker 3: Every video I've seen of her has just been top 32 00:01:20,954 --> 00:01:23,314 Speaker 3: of the world, like top tier, the best, Like she 33 00:01:23,554 --> 00:01:25,514 Speaker 3: seems like an amazing live performance. 34 00:01:25,714 --> 00:01:28,314 Speaker 2: Yes, she performed, she presented an award. She didn't do 35 00:01:28,354 --> 00:01:30,314 Speaker 2: a huge amount of interviews in the red carpet, but 36 00:01:30,474 --> 00:01:32,874 Speaker 2: she did swan down and that black gown with the 37 00:01:32,954 --> 00:01:35,514 Speaker 2: rose attached to the front so gorgeous. 38 00:01:35,194 --> 00:01:38,194 Speaker 3: Reminded me of when One Direction was here for the Arias. 39 00:01:38,234 --> 00:01:41,154 Speaker 2: That is the same thing. Actually, I think that was crazy, 40 00:01:41,194 --> 00:01:43,114 Speaker 2: Like didn't people break down the barriers and things. 41 00:01:43,114 --> 00:01:45,474 Speaker 3: It was wild. I feel like arias don't get as 42 00:01:45,594 --> 00:01:49,034 Speaker 3: much attention as our other local award shows do. So 43 00:01:49,074 --> 00:01:53,594 Speaker 3: whenever there is an international celebrity who's like in the 44 00:01:53,674 --> 00:01:56,434 Speaker 3: music industry, I feel like that's when they really shine. 45 00:01:56,714 --> 00:01:58,794 Speaker 2: I think it's just changed across the board, Like the 46 00:01:58,834 --> 00:02:02,034 Speaker 2: Logis and the Arias used to be these huge, all 47 00:02:02,154 --> 00:02:05,074 Speaker 2: encompassing things, only because the media we had to consume 48 00:02:05,274 --> 00:02:06,834 Speaker 2: was less, like you watch what was on the TV 49 00:02:06,954 --> 00:02:08,954 Speaker 2: that night. You know, you stayed up late to watch 50 00:02:08,994 --> 00:02:10,834 Speaker 2: the Law use you say late to watch the Arias. 51 00:02:11,194 --> 00:02:13,354 Speaker 2: And now I think most people just watch the clips 52 00:02:13,353 --> 00:02:15,154 Speaker 2: on their phones, but it's still a big thing. I'm 53 00:02:15,194 --> 00:02:17,474 Speaker 2: so glad I watched the Arias last night and I've 54 00:02:17,674 --> 00:02:19,594 Speaker 2: been reading it this a lot. It's harder than ever 55 00:02:19,674 --> 00:02:22,674 Speaker 2: to find new Australian music just because of the way 56 00:02:22,714 --> 00:02:24,274 Speaker 2: and this is what a lot of artists are saying, 57 00:02:24,394 --> 00:02:27,514 Speaker 2: just because of the way algorithms work on Spotify and 58 00:02:27,554 --> 00:02:30,514 Speaker 2: getting people to find their stuff and getting radio shows 59 00:02:30,514 --> 00:02:33,074 Speaker 2: to play it and the changes there. And it's so true. 60 00:02:33,114 --> 00:02:35,633 Speaker 2: I feel like now unless a song blows upon TikTok, yeah, 61 00:02:35,634 --> 00:02:36,914 Speaker 2: you have to go really hunt for it. 62 00:02:36,994 --> 00:02:41,514 Speaker 3: And I feel like the music industry in general understanding 63 00:02:41,594 --> 00:02:44,594 Speaker 3: that like Triple J like have stopped like international artists 64 00:02:44,634 --> 00:02:47,114 Speaker 3: from coming in the top ten, like they're focusing so 65 00:02:47,154 --> 00:02:49,874 Speaker 3: important local artists, which I am all for because we 66 00:02:49,914 --> 00:02:51,674 Speaker 3: have such good talent here. 67 00:02:52,074 --> 00:02:54,434 Speaker 2: So much good talent now were all the Arias last night. 68 00:02:54,794 --> 00:02:57,754 Speaker 2: So Nina Daratti was the most nominated artist of twenty 69 00:02:57,794 --> 00:03:01,434 Speaker 2: twenty five and she took home Best Solo Artist, the 70 00:03:01,514 --> 00:03:05,754 Speaker 2: Michael Gininski Breakthrough Artist Award, and Best Independent Released. Also 71 00:03:05,834 --> 00:03:08,394 Speaker 2: her album I Love My Computer, which I mean, I'm 72 00:03:08,394 --> 00:03:10,034 Speaker 2: a bit late to find the album, but I did 73 00:03:10,034 --> 00:03:11,794 Speaker 2: find it recently and I have been playing an in 74 00:03:11,954 --> 00:03:12,914 Speaker 2: between my show tunes. 75 00:03:13,034 --> 00:03:15,434 Speaker 3: Yeah, I feel like she's a contender for the Triple 76 00:03:15,514 --> 00:03:16,474 Speaker 3: J one hundred. 77 00:03:16,634 --> 00:03:18,914 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I definitely think she'll be up there. We 78 00:03:18,954 --> 00:03:21,194 Speaker 2: also had Ammon the Sniffers claim a lot of the 79 00:03:21,194 --> 00:03:23,114 Speaker 2: big awards for the night, so they had Album of 80 00:03:23,154 --> 00:03:26,714 Speaker 2: the Year, Best Group and Best Rock Album. And I 81 00:03:26,714 --> 00:03:28,994 Speaker 2: think their speech, their witnest speech was kind of the 82 00:03:29,034 --> 00:03:30,154 Speaker 2: big moment of the night. 83 00:03:30,514 --> 00:03:35,074 Speaker 1: As the new Prime Minister of Australia, I would like 84 00:03:35,154 --> 00:03:42,074 Speaker 1: to say all immigrants welcome. I'd like to say Land back, 85 00:03:44,554 --> 00:03:50,394 Speaker 1: the dolls going up and every pub gets a million dollars. 86 00:03:52,394 --> 00:03:52,474 Speaker 2: NA. 87 00:03:52,594 --> 00:03:53,074 Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you. 88 00:03:53,114 --> 00:03:55,954 Speaker 1: On a massive night, what a crazy time. This album's 89 00:03:55,994 --> 00:03:58,514 Speaker 1: really changed all of our lives. 90 00:03:58,194 --> 00:03:59,034 Speaker 2: Like, oh my god. 91 00:04:00,154 --> 00:04:02,234 Speaker 1: Yeah, probably won't have the work at Idea, I reckin. 92 00:04:03,274 --> 00:04:06,994 Speaker 3: That's the most Australian speech. It is what I love. 93 00:04:07,274 --> 00:04:09,074 Speaker 2: Good. I saw a few, I mean not very many, 94 00:04:09,114 --> 00:04:10,034 Speaker 2: and so I don't want to give them a lot 95 00:04:10,074 --> 00:04:12,034 Speaker 2: of space. But I saw a few comments being like, oh, 96 00:04:12,194 --> 00:04:14,274 Speaker 2: just talk about the music, like, don't make it political, 97 00:04:14,314 --> 00:04:14,554 Speaker 2: and I. 98 00:04:14,514 --> 00:04:17,474 Speaker 3: Was like, but it was like funny political because it true. 99 00:04:17,714 --> 00:04:20,433 Speaker 2: Is also always like it's a political act in a way. 100 00:04:20,834 --> 00:04:23,433 Speaker 2: Most like good music is about activism. It's about speaking 101 00:04:23,474 --> 00:04:25,393 Speaker 2: about what's happening in the moment. It's about speaking up 102 00:04:25,433 --> 00:04:27,473 Speaker 2: for different groups. So I think that was exactly the 103 00:04:27,513 --> 00:04:28,394 Speaker 2: right thing for them to say. 104 00:04:28,474 --> 00:04:30,713 Speaker 3: And I think like with local awards, like that's the 105 00:04:30,753 --> 00:04:32,993 Speaker 3: time where you can say that stuff, Like I feel 106 00:04:32,993 --> 00:04:35,433 Speaker 3: like you can't get away with saying that at the 107 00:04:35,433 --> 00:04:39,513 Speaker 3: Grammys or something. Isn't that just be blown up internationally everywhere, 108 00:04:39,674 --> 00:04:42,593 Speaker 3: like people having different takes, different opinions. And the best 109 00:04:42,633 --> 00:04:45,313 Speaker 3: thing about like the Logis and the Aris is that 110 00:04:45,354 --> 00:04:48,113 Speaker 3: our celebrities can just like actually enjoy themselves and loosen 111 00:04:48,193 --> 00:04:50,234 Speaker 3: up and say what they want to say and not 112 00:04:50,313 --> 00:04:51,354 Speaker 3: everything will become a thing. 113 00:04:51,714 --> 00:04:53,553 Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. And we had Oh my god, there's so 114 00:04:53,594 --> 00:04:55,474 Speaker 2: many nominees. I feel like now I'm stressing about who 115 00:04:55,474 --> 00:04:58,794 Speaker 2: to say. But Filma Plum won Best Pop Release. Oh yeah, 116 00:04:58,794 --> 00:05:01,954 Speaker 2: so that was incready, And then she also performed Nobody's baby. 117 00:05:02,113 --> 00:05:03,753 Speaker 2: So that was again if we were in the crowd, 118 00:05:03,914 --> 00:05:06,113 Speaker 2: oh something we could have seen. It is good to 119 00:05:06,113 --> 00:05:07,553 Speaker 2: watch it, like you we can go and I can 120 00:05:07,553 --> 00:05:09,433 Speaker 2: watch the full thing. I think it's on stand. You 121 00:05:09,474 --> 00:05:11,313 Speaker 2: can go back and watch the full show if you 122 00:05:11,354 --> 00:05:13,674 Speaker 2: missed it. Another big moment of the night that everyone 123 00:05:13,753 --> 00:05:16,474 Speaker 2: was excited for was Adam Hyde. So he's like one 124 00:05:16,513 --> 00:05:18,713 Speaker 2: half of Peaking Duck. But now he's got Kelly Holiday 125 00:05:18,714 --> 00:05:19,474 Speaker 2: his solo ad. 126 00:05:19,553 --> 00:05:21,674 Speaker 3: Yeah. His whole career is quite confusing. He's got a 127 00:05:21,674 --> 00:05:21,994 Speaker 3: lot of. 128 00:05:21,993 --> 00:05:24,633 Speaker 2: Names, yeah, a lot of names. 129 00:05:25,154 --> 00:05:27,273 Speaker 3: So Peaking Duck is like the duo, like the DJ 130 00:05:27,474 --> 00:05:29,434 Speaker 3: duo that they're together and they make music, and that's 131 00:05:29,474 --> 00:05:32,753 Speaker 3: where I feel like most people know him from, Like 132 00:05:33,193 --> 00:05:36,753 Speaker 3: Picking Duck is massive. Yeah, and now he's got this 133 00:05:36,873 --> 00:05:40,833 Speaker 3: alter ego, Keeley Holiday. Yes, and that's like his solo career. 134 00:05:40,914 --> 00:05:43,474 Speaker 3: That's his solo okay, and that's where he made Dancing 135 00:05:43,594 --> 00:05:44,194 Speaker 3: Dancing too. 136 00:05:44,274 --> 00:05:46,073 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, the song that's like a tribute to his 137 00:05:46,113 --> 00:05:49,113 Speaker 2: girlfriend Abby Chatfield. So they walk the carpet together. It 138 00:05:49,154 --> 00:05:51,194 Speaker 2: was quite cute. I've seen in a few different interviews 139 00:05:51,234 --> 00:05:53,873 Speaker 2: Abby saying that a few years ago she'd been at 140 00:05:53,914 --> 00:05:56,234 Speaker 2: an Aria's party, and she had a huge crush on 141 00:05:56,274 --> 00:05:58,433 Speaker 2: Adam and they'd been friends for years and he didn't 142 00:05:58,474 --> 00:06:00,274 Speaker 2: talk to her or they didn't meet or something, so 143 00:06:00,313 --> 00:06:02,753 Speaker 2: she just went home and cried herself to sleep. And 144 00:06:02,794 --> 00:06:04,713 Speaker 2: she was like, and now here I am walking the 145 00:06:04,714 --> 00:06:06,794 Speaker 2: Aria red carpet for a song that he's a dead 146 00:06:06,914 --> 00:06:09,113 Speaker 2: k to me. And I was like, that is the 147 00:06:09,154 --> 00:06:12,274 Speaker 2: power of manifestation. I know that I usually believe in manifestation, 148 00:06:12,433 --> 00:06:12,674 Speaker 2: but I. 149 00:06:12,834 --> 00:06:15,474 Speaker 3: Don't usually believe crying over a man. But yeah, I'm 150 00:06:15,474 --> 00:06:17,433 Speaker 3: into this. I mean, we've all done it. 151 00:06:17,513 --> 00:06:19,513 Speaker 2: So he got up on stage and thanked her for 152 00:06:19,553 --> 00:06:21,993 Speaker 2: being the inspiration for that song that was just blown 153 00:06:22,034 --> 00:06:24,234 Speaker 2: up on TikTok, but also just a fun song. It 154 00:06:24,354 --> 00:06:24,953 Speaker 2: is such fun. 155 00:06:24,993 --> 00:06:28,034 Speaker 3: It's good song, and it's like the minute you hear 156 00:06:28,313 --> 00:06:31,274 Speaker 3: the first two bars, it's in your head for the whole. Yeah, 157 00:06:31,274 --> 00:06:33,794 Speaker 3: it's just a joyful nailed it, so joyful, and they 158 00:06:33,794 --> 00:06:36,033 Speaker 3: were so cute. Her outfit on the red carpet. 159 00:06:36,154 --> 00:06:38,513 Speaker 2: Yeah, it was amazing, one of my favorites. So like 160 00:06:38,513 --> 00:06:40,273 Speaker 2: to when I looked at her TikTok afterwards and she 161 00:06:40,354 --> 00:06:42,873 Speaker 2: was like, Adam's gone to a after party, but she 162 00:06:42,953 --> 00:06:44,954 Speaker 2: was like I was really overstimulated. So I've gone home 163 00:06:44,953 --> 00:06:46,633 Speaker 2: and like sketched a picture of my dress. 164 00:06:46,953 --> 00:06:47,633 Speaker 3: That's so cute. 165 00:06:47,794 --> 00:06:50,234 Speaker 2: Just yeah, that the couple thing is really working for them. 166 00:06:50,274 --> 00:06:52,113 Speaker 3: And she was crying and now she's sketching. 167 00:06:52,393 --> 00:06:54,553 Speaker 2: I know. I don't know if he's got a song 168 00:06:54,633 --> 00:06:56,794 Speaker 2: also called More. I was reading an interview then the 169 00:06:56,834 --> 00:07:00,113 Speaker 2: other day where he recorded them, have you heard having sex? 170 00:07:00,714 --> 00:07:02,993 Speaker 2: Having sex? Did we talk about that? No? We didn't. 171 00:07:03,113 --> 00:07:05,553 Speaker 3: Oh my god. Yeah it was a voice memo of 172 00:07:05,594 --> 00:07:08,474 Speaker 3: like being recorded of them having sex, but like because 173 00:07:08,474 --> 00:07:10,474 Speaker 3: it was in the bed, you just hear like the sheets, 174 00:07:10,514 --> 00:07:12,874 Speaker 3: so that they have to redo it. Yeah, and then 175 00:07:12,874 --> 00:07:14,514 Speaker 3: they had to redo it like on a mic, like 176 00:07:14,514 --> 00:07:16,074 Speaker 3: actually not having sex with just making the. 177 00:07:16,194 --> 00:07:18,514 Speaker 2: Yeah, what do you think of being recorded during sex 178 00:07:18,554 --> 00:07:19,913 Speaker 2: and having that put through this book? 179 00:07:20,114 --> 00:07:21,314 Speaker 3: Smart is in right now? 180 00:07:21,474 --> 00:07:23,434 Speaker 2: Can I say I think it's so romantic? 181 00:07:24,034 --> 00:07:26,154 Speaker 3: Romantic? I wouldn't call it romantic. 182 00:07:26,554 --> 00:07:29,033 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's the next step up from him writing that 183 00:07:29,154 --> 00:07:31,714 Speaker 2: song for her, Like it's like sexy. 184 00:07:31,514 --> 00:07:34,473 Speaker 3: But what if they break up and then your orgasms 185 00:07:34,514 --> 00:07:37,594 Speaker 3: there forever? No, but you can't. That's what happens when 186 00:07:37,594 --> 00:07:38,393 Speaker 3: you date a musician. 187 00:07:38,674 --> 00:07:40,874 Speaker 2: I just think It's really cute because dancing too is 188 00:07:40,914 --> 00:07:42,954 Speaker 2: just kind of like him yearning for her, and this 189 00:07:43,114 --> 00:07:45,634 Speaker 2: celebrating falling in love with that's romantic. And then more 190 00:07:45,754 --> 00:07:47,594 Speaker 2: is like the next step up of them, like being 191 00:07:47,634 --> 00:07:50,274 Speaker 2: fully a couple and celebrating like the great sex they're having. 192 00:07:50,354 --> 00:07:52,594 Speaker 3: I don't have anything. There's nothing wrong with that. But 193 00:07:52,634 --> 00:07:54,994 Speaker 3: I wouldn't call it romantic. I call it smutty. I 194 00:07:55,114 --> 00:07:57,434 Speaker 3: call it smart trying to cut through. 195 00:07:57,794 --> 00:07:57,994 Speaker 1: Yeah. 196 00:07:58,154 --> 00:07:59,634 Speaker 2: Smart, I would definitely call lunch. 197 00:07:59,714 --> 00:08:03,154 Speaker 3: But it's not my favorite song. The song itself, Yeah, 198 00:08:03,314 --> 00:08:05,473 Speaker 3: not my favorite. And I think what makes it is 199 00:08:05,514 --> 00:08:08,434 Speaker 3: because of the shock value of having those sound sects 200 00:08:08,474 --> 00:08:08,674 Speaker 3: in it. 201 00:08:08,874 --> 00:08:10,594 Speaker 2: I don't know. I just think it was a bit romantic. 202 00:08:11,594 --> 00:08:13,114 Speaker 2: I just want someone to write a song about me. 203 00:08:13,274 --> 00:08:17,674 Speaker 2: That's all I want. So yesterday I awoke and before 204 00:08:17,674 --> 00:08:20,273 Speaker 2: I even properly opened my eyes and reached for my phone, 205 00:08:20,354 --> 00:08:22,913 Speaker 2: I could tell the world was buzzing with some news. 206 00:08:22,953 --> 00:08:23,953 Speaker 3: Can I tell you what I did? 207 00:08:24,034 --> 00:08:24,114 Speaker 1: What? 208 00:08:24,634 --> 00:08:27,074 Speaker 3: I woke up at six am and I was like 209 00:08:27,554 --> 00:08:28,914 Speaker 3: and I reached for my phone and I was like 210 00:08:28,994 --> 00:08:31,554 Speaker 3: this and I was like and I was like this, 211 00:08:31,914 --> 00:08:33,154 Speaker 3: if you're watching on you tube. 212 00:08:33,914 --> 00:08:35,314 Speaker 2: I was like, if you're just listening to the pot 213 00:08:35,314 --> 00:08:36,633 Speaker 2: and I described her glasses. 214 00:08:39,194 --> 00:08:41,634 Speaker 3: Let me see. Men stared at it for like at 215 00:08:41,714 --> 00:08:44,074 Speaker 3: least twenty minutes, and then I got late to work, 216 00:08:44,074 --> 00:08:44,994 Speaker 3: even though I'm so early. 217 00:08:45,594 --> 00:08:47,953 Speaker 2: It's so funny because like the way that people were 218 00:08:47,994 --> 00:08:50,114 Speaker 2: talking in our work chats is usually what we do 219 00:08:50,154 --> 00:08:51,674 Speaker 2: when it's like a breaking news. 220 00:08:51,394 --> 00:08:52,354 Speaker 3: Story they was reading. 221 00:08:52,394 --> 00:08:54,594 Speaker 2: It's like, everyone jump on, get it on social. Should 222 00:08:54,634 --> 00:08:56,474 Speaker 2: we do this? Should we do that? People being like, 223 00:08:56,474 --> 00:08:58,154 Speaker 2: oh my god, I can't believe what I'm seeing. People 224 00:08:58,154 --> 00:09:00,674 Speaker 2: having different thoughts, people saying like I need to take 225 00:09:00,674 --> 00:09:02,954 Speaker 2: a personal day. Maybe that was you. It was too 226 00:09:03,074 --> 00:09:05,514 Speaker 2: much to deal with. And what we're talking about is 227 00:09:05,554 --> 00:09:08,874 Speaker 2: the new Vanity Fair Hollywood issue cover that they do 228 00:09:08,994 --> 00:09:10,914 Speaker 2: every year. It's always a big year about who's going 229 00:09:10,954 --> 00:09:14,074 Speaker 2: to be on it. But this year it was very 230 00:09:14,074 --> 00:09:17,514 Speaker 2: interesting because it is all men this Hollywood cover, Oh men, 231 00:09:17,994 --> 00:09:20,354 Speaker 2: and it's meant to be spotlighting. This is the official 232 00:09:20,394 --> 00:09:25,034 Speaker 2: tagline the new generation of leading men, captivating audiences and 233 00:09:25,114 --> 00:09:30,394 Speaker 2: propelling cultural conversations at a moment of industry transformation. A 234 00:09:30,394 --> 00:09:32,474 Speaker 2: lot of buzzwords to say, we just wanted to put 235 00:09:32,474 --> 00:09:33,314 Speaker 2: some hot men on the cover. 236 00:09:33,834 --> 00:09:36,074 Speaker 3: We just sad to compete with People Sexiest Man. 237 00:09:36,314 --> 00:09:39,314 Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, Well speaking is on there. We have a 238 00:09:39,354 --> 00:09:43,554 Speaker 2: people Sexiest Man doubler because who Vanity Fair chose to 239 00:09:43,594 --> 00:09:48,234 Speaker 2: spotline on their Hollywood issue includes asap Rockie Fair. Ye, 240 00:09:48,474 --> 00:09:50,754 Speaker 2: Glenn Powell, you know, he was waiting by the phone. 241 00:09:51,074 --> 00:09:52,434 Speaker 2: He's like, call me, call me, call me. 242 00:09:52,594 --> 00:09:54,794 Speaker 3: It was Tom Cruise going, hey, Vanity Fair, how do 243 00:09:54,834 --> 00:09:55,874 Speaker 3: I get my boy? Glenn? 244 00:09:55,954 --> 00:09:57,114 Speaker 2: Yeah, he's like he's on the cover. 245 00:09:57,194 --> 00:09:58,474 Speaker 3: You know how to eat popcorn now. 246 00:09:58,794 --> 00:10:02,234 Speaker 2: Austin Butler looks just embarrassed to be there. Austin but 247 00:10:02,514 --> 00:10:05,514 Speaker 2: in his normal deep Elvis voice. That poor boy, that 248 00:10:05,674 --> 00:10:06,914 Speaker 2: rap movie ruined him. 249 00:10:07,234 --> 00:10:09,034 Speaker 3: He's trying so hard, trying. I think we need to 250 00:10:09,034 --> 00:10:12,114 Speaker 3: give him a break. Now, I'm done bullying. 251 00:10:13,474 --> 00:10:15,114 Speaker 2: I know it's too easy to I'll give you a break. 252 00:10:15,634 --> 00:10:18,754 Speaker 2: Jonathan Bailey again just doing his bit for Wicked, just 253 00:10:18,754 --> 00:10:21,594 Speaker 2: happy to get his hand swinging around on the roof. 254 00:10:21,594 --> 00:10:24,114 Speaker 2: He's doing the most. He's doing a pink Jeremy Allen 255 00:10:24,154 --> 00:10:27,794 Speaker 2: White looking miserable to be there. Michael B. Jordan just 256 00:10:27,834 --> 00:10:30,394 Speaker 2: looking hot. The other sexiest man, Oh yeah, always the 257 00:10:30,394 --> 00:10:32,434 Speaker 2: sexiest man of my heart. And also he's like I 258 00:10:32,434 --> 00:10:34,754 Speaker 2: had one of the biggest movies of the year, and 259 00:10:34,794 --> 00:10:36,314 Speaker 2: I played the two lead roles. 260 00:10:36,314 --> 00:10:39,994 Speaker 3: So he's two lead roles massive movie. Sexiest Man in 261 00:10:40,034 --> 00:10:41,514 Speaker 3: Live twenty nineteen, Yes, I have that. 262 00:10:42,234 --> 00:10:44,713 Speaker 2: Have you get that up in your apartment? Is that 263 00:10:44,754 --> 00:10:46,114 Speaker 2: what you see when you close your eyes at night? 264 00:10:46,234 --> 00:10:49,074 Speaker 2: That cover? Likely? Oh my god, give him an oscar 265 00:10:49,114 --> 00:10:50,874 Speaker 2: for that role though they oscars what they're. 266 00:10:50,714 --> 00:10:52,314 Speaker 3: Actually I think it was twenty twenty. I take him back, 267 00:10:52,354 --> 00:10:53,314 Speaker 3: I think, well still give. 268 00:10:55,354 --> 00:10:58,954 Speaker 2: Jeremy Allen White are looking sad and in his little singlet. 269 00:10:59,474 --> 00:11:03,594 Speaker 2: Andrew Garfield hmm, interesting again, just happy to be there. Well, 270 00:11:03,594 --> 00:11:05,714 Speaker 2: he's got some big movies coming out. Poor mess school. 271 00:11:05,714 --> 00:11:07,914 Speaker 2: All these boys are just like these little, shy little men, 272 00:11:07,954 --> 00:11:08,674 Speaker 2: which does lead. 273 00:11:08,634 --> 00:11:10,954 Speaker 3: Us also done with William Paul Mescal. 274 00:11:11,554 --> 00:11:13,114 Speaker 2: Well, you've gone off him since he said he doesn't 275 00:11:13,114 --> 00:11:17,874 Speaker 2: like lazy people. Goddamn once men speak. 276 00:11:17,874 --> 00:11:19,994 Speaker 3: It was the laziest looking one there out of all 277 00:11:20,034 --> 00:11:20,354 Speaker 3: of them. 278 00:11:20,394 --> 00:11:23,874 Speaker 2: In the Actually, yeah, he's doing the least, so I 279 00:11:23,874 --> 00:11:24,314 Speaker 2: think it was. 280 00:11:24,554 --> 00:11:26,954 Speaker 3: Apple was described as average boy. 281 00:11:28,514 --> 00:11:31,274 Speaker 2: In the interview. No again, that's a three line for 282 00:11:31,314 --> 00:11:34,274 Speaker 2: all these men that will come to Callum Turner, mister 283 00:11:34,354 --> 00:11:38,554 Speaker 2: Dower Bleeper himself. He's just the piece I know Harris Dickinson. 284 00:11:38,634 --> 00:11:40,954 Speaker 2: No one made any references to milk that I saw, 285 00:11:41,034 --> 00:11:41,674 Speaker 2: but he'll never. 286 00:11:42,314 --> 00:11:43,994 Speaker 3: Which he's really good at baking allegedly. 287 00:11:44,074 --> 00:11:46,274 Speaker 2: Oh that's fun. Well, we like a memph skill like 288 00:11:46,394 --> 00:11:48,354 Speaker 2: Keith Stanfield. That's heat. That's fine. 289 00:11:48,434 --> 00:11:52,034 Speaker 3: So hot, so hot, sometimes hot, Sometimes you just have 290 00:11:52,074 --> 00:11:52,434 Speaker 3: to be hot. 291 00:11:52,874 --> 00:11:54,794 Speaker 2: I'm deciding who's allowed to be there just from the 292 00:11:54,914 --> 00:11:58,714 Speaker 2: what their bodies look like. And Rizamed again happy to 293 00:11:58,714 --> 00:12:00,634 Speaker 2: be there is only. 294 00:12:00,474 --> 00:12:03,794 Speaker 3: One there that I'm like, full package. Yeah, Like I 295 00:12:03,834 --> 00:12:05,554 Speaker 3: feel like you're the guy you would take home to 296 00:12:05,594 --> 00:12:07,834 Speaker 3: meet your parents. Yeah, You're the you would want to 297 00:12:07,834 --> 00:12:10,074 Speaker 3: be seen ad in public with. You're the guy that 298 00:12:10,114 --> 00:12:14,674 Speaker 3: you'd want to be in close intimately. Like he's just 299 00:12:14,714 --> 00:12:16,834 Speaker 3: got it all and you know what I want more 300 00:12:16,874 --> 00:12:17,194 Speaker 3: of him? 301 00:12:17,314 --> 00:12:20,034 Speaker 2: Yeah, give him a solo cover. Yes, you cow. It's 302 00:12:20,074 --> 00:12:22,874 Speaker 2: what's interesting about this is, obviously the Hollywood issue is 303 00:12:22,914 --> 00:12:25,034 Speaker 2: the big one that people look for for Vanity Fair 304 00:12:25,114 --> 00:12:27,154 Speaker 2: each year because it's the one where you get this 305 00:12:27,314 --> 00:12:30,434 Speaker 2: mix of all these different stars together. Over the years, 306 00:12:30,434 --> 00:12:32,594 Speaker 2: there's been all this talk of like because not be 307 00:12:32,674 --> 00:12:34,754 Speaker 2: don't always shoot them together. I do think that that 308 00:12:34,914 --> 00:12:37,234 Speaker 2: some of this was shot, Like they've pulled single shots 309 00:12:37,234 --> 00:12:39,234 Speaker 2: in of the different men, and some of them were 310 00:12:39,234 --> 00:12:40,874 Speaker 2: shot to get well, you know, there's all the mysteries 311 00:12:40,874 --> 00:12:42,794 Speaker 2: of the magazines. But previous years. 312 00:12:42,594 --> 00:12:45,594 Speaker 3: I wanted to see a big Cosmo cover you the 313 00:12:46,194 --> 00:12:48,674 Speaker 3: American and Ashley and then Hillary Dark Yeah, and then 314 00:12:48,714 --> 00:12:52,154 Speaker 3: all the girls just together one of that. But clearly 315 00:12:52,274 --> 00:12:53,874 Speaker 3: men are very busy. 316 00:12:54,114 --> 00:12:56,914 Speaker 2: Well, what's interesting about this is the tradition of having 317 00:12:56,914 --> 00:13:00,194 Speaker 2: this Hollywood cover started in nineteen ninety five after the 318 00:13:00,274 --> 00:13:03,474 Speaker 2: success of Vanity Fair's first Oscar Party, which has now 319 00:13:03,514 --> 00:13:06,114 Speaker 2: become almost as big as the Oscars itself. So if 320 00:13:06,114 --> 00:13:08,114 Speaker 2: you don't go to the Oscars, you the Verity Fair Party, 321 00:13:08,154 --> 00:13:10,914 Speaker 2: and that's where all the big red carpet picks come from. Yeah, 322 00:13:11,114 --> 00:13:13,914 Speaker 2: that first issue that they did where they were just like, 323 00:13:13,914 --> 00:13:16,714 Speaker 2: we're going to celebrate the biggest people in Hollywood. We're 324 00:13:16,714 --> 00:13:19,194 Speaker 2: going to celebrate the only people we care about in Hollywood. 325 00:13:19,194 --> 00:13:23,754 Speaker 2: In that first issue was Nicole Kidman, Angela Bassett, Sarah 326 00:13:23,794 --> 00:13:26,953 Speaker 2: Jessica Parker, and Uma Thurman and a few others on them, 327 00:13:26,994 --> 00:13:29,874 Speaker 2: but they were all women. Wow, it's so interesting in 328 00:13:29,914 --> 00:13:32,194 Speaker 2: nineteen ninety five for like we only care about women, 329 00:13:32,634 --> 00:13:34,674 Speaker 2: and now in twenty twenty five, it's like, you know 330 00:13:34,754 --> 00:13:36,914 Speaker 2: what's novel and interesting is all men. 331 00:13:37,194 --> 00:13:40,714 Speaker 3: Yeah. It's like it feels very old school Hollywood to 332 00:13:40,754 --> 00:13:43,274 Speaker 3: say that. Yeah, But what I found really interesting about 333 00:13:43,314 --> 00:13:47,874 Speaker 3: this cover is that putting all men, predominantly of them 334 00:13:47,994 --> 00:13:51,674 Speaker 3: white men, being in one of these massive issues like 335 00:13:51,994 --> 00:13:55,674 Speaker 3: the Hollywood Issue is such a risk. And I feel 336 00:13:55,714 --> 00:13:58,314 Speaker 3: like this in society right now, in twenty twenty five, 337 00:13:58,354 --> 00:14:00,554 Speaker 3: this is like the safest moment in history where you 338 00:14:00,674 --> 00:14:03,594 Speaker 3: can put all men indy because, like, if you think 339 00:14:03,634 --> 00:14:05,874 Speaker 3: about it, when I woke up and I saw the cover, 340 00:14:05,954 --> 00:14:08,154 Speaker 3: I was all for it, like a to my Instagram. Sorry, 341 00:14:08,274 --> 00:14:10,194 Speaker 3: everyone at work was at all four. There was not 342 00:14:10,234 --> 00:14:12,794 Speaker 3: a single person going, oh my god, I can't believe 343 00:14:12,914 --> 00:14:15,154 Speaker 3: it's only men. Yeah, and this is meant to be 344 00:14:15,234 --> 00:14:18,314 Speaker 3: like exactly what you said, like the Hollywood Issue, And 345 00:14:18,394 --> 00:14:20,674 Speaker 3: we usually see Hollywood issues, and we talked about it 346 00:14:20,714 --> 00:14:23,114 Speaker 3: on the spill in the past. It's usually like there's 347 00:14:23,114 --> 00:14:24,834 Speaker 3: that are nominated for Oscar, so we're going to be 348 00:14:24,874 --> 00:14:27,754 Speaker 3: Oscar winnings like we would have like traditionally have seen 349 00:14:27,834 --> 00:14:31,274 Speaker 3: like Ariana Grande or Cynthia Riva, or on there, and 350 00:14:31,514 --> 00:14:33,794 Speaker 3: it's so interesting they took this turn and they were 351 00:14:33,834 --> 00:14:36,074 Speaker 3: able to get away with it because I think we've 352 00:14:36,114 --> 00:14:39,794 Speaker 3: now come to a place where we're kind of celebrating 353 00:14:39,874 --> 00:14:42,674 Speaker 3: men again. And for the longest time, it's like media 354 00:14:42,714 --> 00:14:45,034 Speaker 3: avoided it because it was just they were just going 355 00:14:45,114 --> 00:14:47,354 Speaker 3: through such a shit time with men, and we're still 356 00:14:47,354 --> 00:14:48,874 Speaker 3: going through such a shit time with men, but it 357 00:14:48,994 --> 00:14:50,914 Speaker 3: kind of feels like it's now in our back pocket. 358 00:14:51,434 --> 00:14:54,034 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's also interesting the men that they chose, and 359 00:14:54,114 --> 00:14:56,114 Speaker 2: I think so venityf has got a new editor. This 360 00:14:56,154 --> 00:14:58,234 Speaker 2: is his first cover and I was reading some of 361 00:14:58,274 --> 00:15:00,874 Speaker 2: his kind of thinking around why he chose it, and 362 00:15:00,914 --> 00:15:05,114 Speaker 2: he was saying that we're introducing a new breed of 363 00:15:05,514 --> 00:15:08,794 Speaker 2: the male Hollywood eye conn hero and what you were 364 00:15:08,794 --> 00:15:11,874 Speaker 2: saying before about they're attainable. The words you use were 365 00:15:11,874 --> 00:15:14,314 Speaker 2: they're the boy next door, They're the boy you bring 366 00:15:14,354 --> 00:15:17,234 Speaker 2: home to mom. They're like they're I think in the past, 367 00:15:17,274 --> 00:15:20,954 Speaker 2: if you had looked at like these big, other worldly, handsome, 368 00:15:21,154 --> 00:15:24,194 Speaker 2: kind of beefcake macho men that were the leading men 369 00:15:24,234 --> 00:15:26,874 Speaker 2: in Hollywood, that issue would have looked really confronting. 370 00:15:27,114 --> 00:15:31,234 Speaker 3: Yeah, but these men haven't been canceled yet yeah, like they're. 371 00:15:31,554 --> 00:15:33,074 Speaker 2: Calling them men. Is like I looked at that and 372 00:15:33,074 --> 00:15:36,514 Speaker 2: I'm like, even though something, these are boys, they're just 373 00:15:36,594 --> 00:15:37,234 Speaker 2: little boys. 374 00:15:37,514 --> 00:15:39,514 Speaker 3: But it just like reminds me of like it feels 375 00:15:39,514 --> 00:15:42,114 Speaker 3: like they're testing the waters with like doing an only 376 00:15:42,154 --> 00:15:43,914 Speaker 3: men's issue and it was a huge risk and they 377 00:15:43,914 --> 00:15:46,034 Speaker 3: were able to get away with it, which is what 378 00:15:46,074 --> 00:15:49,434 Speaker 3: I feel like People Magazine also did during the Me 379 00:15:49,594 --> 00:15:52,994 Speaker 3: Too movement and George Floyd during the Black Lives Matter movement. 380 00:15:53,314 --> 00:15:55,994 Speaker 3: We had like three consecutive years of black men. We 381 00:15:56,114 --> 00:15:59,394 Speaker 3: had Idris Elbert, John Legend, Michael B. Jordan, and then 382 00:15:59,994 --> 00:16:02,474 Speaker 3: after that and before that were all white men. Yeah, 383 00:16:02,514 --> 00:16:04,994 Speaker 3: and like even after Michael B. Jordan, it's only been 384 00:16:05,034 --> 00:16:09,794 Speaker 3: white men until like now. And it feels like Vanity 385 00:16:09,834 --> 00:16:12,474 Speaker 3: Fair are like the first media organization to be like, 386 00:16:12,554 --> 00:16:14,794 Speaker 3: let's test if we can do this again. And what 387 00:16:14,954 --> 00:16:17,434 Speaker 3: worries me is that it's going to be set the 388 00:16:17,474 --> 00:16:19,194 Speaker 3: norm and we're just going to go back to our 389 00:16:19,274 --> 00:16:22,034 Speaker 3: old ways where it's like still going to be like, oh, 390 00:16:22,074 --> 00:16:23,994 Speaker 3: but men are just so much easier to look at 391 00:16:24,034 --> 00:16:25,554 Speaker 3: and they're just so much and women want to talk 392 00:16:25,554 --> 00:16:27,994 Speaker 3: about them and women want to like them, and we do, 393 00:16:28,194 --> 00:16:29,954 Speaker 3: and we just don't want it to be the only 394 00:16:29,994 --> 00:16:32,554 Speaker 3: thing we want to indulge in. And at the same time, 395 00:16:32,714 --> 00:16:35,474 Speaker 3: we were talking about this morning, like the GQ Awards, 396 00:16:35,594 --> 00:16:39,234 Speaker 3: which is like four men, and yet so many women 397 00:16:39,314 --> 00:16:41,674 Speaker 3: celebrate it, but you don't see the same thing for 398 00:16:41,794 --> 00:16:44,314 Speaker 3: like the L's Women the Awards, Like I never hear 399 00:16:44,354 --> 00:16:46,474 Speaker 3: any men talking about it. And it just feels like 400 00:16:46,514 --> 00:16:50,394 Speaker 3: we're starting to get into this really scary period of 401 00:16:50,474 --> 00:16:53,114 Speaker 3: its switching back to old Hollywood ways. 402 00:16:53,274 --> 00:16:54,914 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, and you've seen that in every corner of 403 00:16:54,914 --> 00:16:56,314 Speaker 2: the inter That's the thing, because on one hand, you'll 404 00:16:56,314 --> 00:16:59,194 Speaker 2: get this cover and you're like, cute men. Also you're like, 405 00:16:59,234 --> 00:17:01,234 Speaker 2: let's just sexualize them men, like we do it to 406 00:17:01,234 --> 00:17:02,234 Speaker 2: women all the time. 407 00:17:02,034 --> 00:17:03,834 Speaker 3: And you know, I love doing that and we love. 408 00:17:03,714 --> 00:17:05,073 Speaker 2: Doing that, and we're not going to stop doing that. 409 00:17:05,114 --> 00:17:07,594 Speaker 2: And also, again we've talked about this before or even 410 00:17:07,634 --> 00:17:09,873 Speaker 2: like when we talked about Robert Irwin or like Michael B. 411 00:17:09,994 --> 00:17:13,114 Speaker 2: Jordan or something. The way that we talk about sexualizing 412 00:17:13,194 --> 00:17:15,434 Speaker 2: men is about like, oh, look at that cute boy, 413 00:17:15,594 --> 00:17:18,114 Speaker 2: Like isn't he cute? We love him, We hope, we 414 00:17:18,114 --> 00:17:19,994 Speaker 2: hope he wins an Oscar, we hope he does well. 415 00:17:20,354 --> 00:17:22,234 Speaker 2: We love seeing them take that, Like it's such an 416 00:17:22,274 --> 00:17:26,353 Speaker 2: innocent distinction between men being like I want to like 417 00:17:26,674 --> 00:17:29,154 Speaker 2: lock that woman up and have sex with her, or like, 418 00:17:29,794 --> 00:17:31,834 Speaker 2: if you delve into that side of the internet, the 419 00:17:31,874 --> 00:17:35,313 Speaker 2: way women talk about men online is quite sweet and 420 00:17:35,354 --> 00:17:38,994 Speaker 2: respectful a whole. Obviously there's exceptions to everything, and the 421 00:17:38,994 --> 00:17:41,634 Speaker 2: way men objectify women on covers or like you know, 422 00:17:41,674 --> 00:17:44,354 Speaker 2: when they like this is often much darker. So that's 423 00:17:44,394 --> 00:17:46,634 Speaker 2: the distinction. But yeah, I think that's the thing like 424 00:17:46,674 --> 00:17:50,554 Speaker 2: we're seeing across Hollywood like this return to the very 425 00:17:50,594 --> 00:17:52,874 Speaker 2: old ways in terms of like even if they had 426 00:17:52,914 --> 00:17:55,674 Speaker 2: women on that cover, there wouldn't have been a lot 427 00:17:55,714 --> 00:17:58,514 Speaker 2: of racial diversity just because of who we can kind 428 00:17:58,514 --> 00:18:00,434 Speaker 2: of see coming up in all the big movies and 429 00:18:00,474 --> 00:18:03,474 Speaker 2: who is being celebrated. There would have been no body diversity. 430 00:18:03,474 --> 00:18:06,234 Speaker 2: That's gone out the window. So that's gone forever and 431 00:18:06,314 --> 00:18:08,354 Speaker 2: even you can see I mean nothing against any of 432 00:18:08,354 --> 00:18:11,114 Speaker 2: these people personally, but like the Sabrina Carpenters and stuff 433 00:18:11,114 --> 00:18:12,874 Speaker 2: coming up in the world, it's like that return to 434 00:18:12,914 --> 00:18:18,194 Speaker 2: that really over sexualized, tiny blonde pop star kind of ways. 435 00:18:17,794 --> 00:18:20,514 Speaker 3: And they're doing it in such like subtle, slow ways. 436 00:18:20,994 --> 00:18:23,994 Speaker 3: Even in this cover, it's very much like we're doing 437 00:18:24,034 --> 00:18:25,714 Speaker 3: this for you, for the women, like this is a 438 00:18:25,754 --> 00:18:27,314 Speaker 3: present for you, and we're like. 439 00:18:27,314 --> 00:18:29,514 Speaker 2: Thank you, and well, yeah, I mean look, we will 440 00:18:29,554 --> 00:18:32,114 Speaker 2: just take anything that's given our way. And also again 441 00:18:32,154 --> 00:18:35,474 Speaker 2: all the company behind the scene videos were also pushing 442 00:18:35,514 --> 00:18:38,754 Speaker 2: this like safe boy next Door, he's so shy, he's 443 00:18:38,794 --> 00:18:40,954 Speaker 2: so nice, kind of narrative like that's what we were 444 00:18:40,954 --> 00:18:43,194 Speaker 2: seeing from Paul mescal that's what we saw from Austin 445 00:18:43,234 --> 00:18:46,674 Speaker 2: Butler in his video. Jonathan Bailey is obviously different because 446 00:18:46,874 --> 00:18:49,914 Speaker 2: he's writing this really important moment of like being you know, 447 00:18:49,994 --> 00:18:52,194 Speaker 2: the first openly gay man to be the sexiest man 448 00:18:52,274 --> 00:18:54,954 Speaker 2: live and being one of the first openly gay men 449 00:18:54,994 --> 00:18:57,513 Speaker 2: to be starring in all these blockbusters, and so that 450 00:18:57,674 --> 00:19:00,394 Speaker 2: is a huge It's like nothing's ever as simple as 451 00:19:00,474 --> 00:19:04,314 Speaker 2: just it's regressive or it's not like there's progressive things 452 00:19:04,394 --> 00:19:08,553 Speaker 2: dotted in there, but in the whole it feel like 453 00:19:08,594 --> 00:19:10,074 Speaker 2: we're just teetering back there. 454 00:19:10,154 --> 00:19:12,154 Speaker 3: Yeah, and I'm like, oh, I wonder what's going to 455 00:19:12,194 --> 00:19:12,794 Speaker 3: happen next. 456 00:19:12,914 --> 00:19:15,394 Speaker 2: I know it's gonna suck us. At the same time, 457 00:19:15,514 --> 00:19:17,553 Speaker 2: we just did want to look at some cute boys. 458 00:19:17,674 --> 00:19:20,554 Speaker 2: We do want to look their best behavior. I think, 459 00:19:20,634 --> 00:19:22,513 Speaker 2: like a lot of them, that's how they handpicked a 460 00:19:22,514 --> 00:19:24,594 Speaker 2: lot of these men who are kind of going to 461 00:19:24,674 --> 00:19:27,594 Speaker 2: be having this kind of cultural moment. Is they're all 462 00:19:27,634 --> 00:19:30,634 Speaker 2: pretending that they don't want to be famous. They're all 463 00:19:30,674 --> 00:19:33,314 Speaker 2: pretending that they're just there about the work and that 464 00:19:33,714 --> 00:19:37,474 Speaker 2: they're all really shy. They all love their partners and 465 00:19:37,554 --> 00:19:39,234 Speaker 2: their mums, and they're just a boy. If you're poor, 466 00:19:39,274 --> 00:19:41,273 Speaker 2: best girl, I'm just a boy next door. All you 467 00:19:41,314 --> 00:19:42,994 Speaker 2: ever hear about Rizzamt is like what a good actor 468 00:19:43,114 --> 00:19:45,394 Speaker 2: he is, Like how lovely he is behind the scenes. 469 00:19:45,474 --> 00:19:48,274 Speaker 2: Like I think they're all towing this line. Yeah, does 470 00:19:48,274 --> 00:19:49,794 Speaker 2: that make it different? I don't know. 471 00:19:50,194 --> 00:19:52,714 Speaker 3: It's like I hadn't. Yeah, I think it makes it different, 472 00:19:52,754 --> 00:19:55,434 Speaker 3: But it also shows that like they're also like different 473 00:19:55,474 --> 00:19:57,474 Speaker 3: in their own way, Whereas I feel like if we 474 00:19:57,554 --> 00:20:01,234 Speaker 3: had women on the cover, we'd be like ranking them, 475 00:20:01,234 --> 00:20:02,874 Speaker 3: like which one was the best, like which one deserved it? 476 00:20:02,914 --> 00:20:05,794 Speaker 3: Which one? And all of these men are so different 477 00:20:05,874 --> 00:20:08,674 Speaker 3: but also so simil mala that you just kind of 478 00:20:08,674 --> 00:20:10,833 Speaker 3: see them as a whole, Like no one's going, oh, 479 00:20:11,034 --> 00:20:13,754 Speaker 3: poor Mescal was the best one on that cover. I mean, 480 00:20:13,754 --> 00:20:16,394 Speaker 3: Michael Jordan was the best one on No one's like 481 00:20:16,474 --> 00:20:18,994 Speaker 3: really like ranking them. And I feel like that's also 482 00:20:19,034 --> 00:20:21,714 Speaker 3: such a safe route to take when you's meant to 483 00:20:21,834 --> 00:20:22,874 Speaker 3: like do a cover like this. 484 00:20:23,074 --> 00:20:25,314 Speaker 2: Yeah wow, something that was just meant to be a 485 00:20:25,354 --> 00:20:26,874 Speaker 2: first trapper is really just. 486 00:20:28,914 --> 00:20:29,033 Speaker 1: That. 487 00:20:29,354 --> 00:20:31,634 Speaker 2: No, no, no, but it's important. As I said, this is 488 00:20:31,834 --> 00:20:33,594 Speaker 2: not just any cover. This is the cover that people 489 00:20:33,674 --> 00:20:37,354 Speaker 2: wait all year to see, and it does really my boys, 490 00:20:37,594 --> 00:20:39,234 Speaker 2: my boys are there. I know that was all of 491 00:20:39,314 --> 00:20:41,754 Speaker 2: our first reaction. That's because like we are at the 492 00:20:41,834 --> 00:20:44,234 Speaker 2: end of the day, like no one's looking for controversy 493 00:20:44,274 --> 00:20:46,514 Speaker 2: a lot of the time, no one's looking to be outraged. 494 00:20:46,514 --> 00:20:48,594 Speaker 2: Like I know, sometimes that's the sentiment of like everyone 495 00:20:48,594 --> 00:20:50,194 Speaker 2: wants to be our age, but wait not, We'd much 496 00:20:50,234 --> 00:20:52,594 Speaker 2: rather see something funny and silly to talk about. So 497 00:20:52,634 --> 00:20:54,554 Speaker 2: that was like that was our first thought. But then 498 00:20:54,594 --> 00:20:56,434 Speaker 2: you do have to look into the deeper meaning because 499 00:20:56,594 --> 00:21:00,994 Speaker 2: covers like that have the power to shape who gets 500 00:21:01,074 --> 00:21:03,914 Speaker 2: other movie roles, and who gets other placemen on red 501 00:21:03,914 --> 00:21:06,954 Speaker 2: carpets and magazine covers, and who we see on ours. 502 00:21:07,634 --> 00:21:09,674 Speaker 3: I got it. I think it actually has just made 503 00:21:09,714 --> 00:21:13,954 Speaker 3: me like more and more excited for the upcoming Oscars. 504 00:21:14,074 --> 00:21:15,394 Speaker 2: Yeah, it is going to be Look, there's going to 505 00:21:15,434 --> 00:21:17,234 Speaker 2: be some my candy. That's the most important. 506 00:21:17,434 --> 00:21:22,394 Speaker 3: Ye around a week ago, you might have seen a 507 00:21:22,434 --> 00:21:26,674 Speaker 3: post on famous singer Charlie XCX. You might have heard 508 00:21:26,714 --> 00:21:30,114 Speaker 3: of her on her Instagram. She posted a photo of 509 00:21:30,154 --> 00:21:34,714 Speaker 3: her laptop on her desk, and on her laptop was 510 00:21:35,114 --> 00:21:38,554 Speaker 3: an essay and in the caption of the photo she 511 00:21:38,794 --> 00:21:41,914 Speaker 3: wrote wrote something on substack with a link to her substack. 512 00:21:42,154 --> 00:21:43,674 Speaker 3: If you don't know what substack is, I feel like 513 00:21:43,674 --> 00:21:45,674 Speaker 3: everyone kind of knows what it is now, but if 514 00:21:45,674 --> 00:21:49,154 Speaker 3: you don't, it's basically an online platform that acts as 515 00:21:49,154 --> 00:21:52,194 Speaker 3: a newsletter, so you can have subscribers on there and 516 00:21:52,194 --> 00:21:55,354 Speaker 3: they send you your emails. A lot of companies use it, 517 00:21:55,394 --> 00:21:57,874 Speaker 3: and a lot of writers as and like authors use 518 00:21:57,914 --> 00:22:00,994 Speaker 3: it to data collect because you get a lot of emails. 519 00:22:00,994 --> 00:22:02,994 Speaker 3: So whenever you want to post something or promote something 520 00:22:03,034 --> 00:22:05,634 Speaker 3: and go straight into someone's inbox, it's one hundred percent reach. 521 00:22:05,954 --> 00:22:09,754 Speaker 3: It's like a real good marketing strategy. But now substack 522 00:22:09,754 --> 00:22:11,674 Speaker 3: has turned into a thing that I would kind of 523 00:22:11,754 --> 00:22:15,474 Speaker 3: relate it to tumbler almost where it's like a written 524 00:22:15,554 --> 00:22:17,834 Speaker 3: platform where not only is it a newsletter, but it 525 00:22:17,874 --> 00:22:19,914 Speaker 3: becomes like a post, like a blog post, and you 526 00:22:19,954 --> 00:22:22,033 Speaker 3: can have like your own website on it. And it 527 00:22:22,074 --> 00:22:26,074 Speaker 3: also has a Twitter adjacent feature that's called notes, where 528 00:22:26,074 --> 00:22:29,394 Speaker 3: people like use notes as in like statuses and posting photos. 529 00:22:29,594 --> 00:22:32,434 Speaker 3: So it's also starting to become a social media platform 530 00:22:32,514 --> 00:22:36,674 Speaker 3: in itself. Now. Subsac has been around for years. It 531 00:22:36,794 --> 00:22:39,514 Speaker 3: gained a lot of popularity during COVID, like a lot 532 00:22:39,514 --> 00:22:41,554 Speaker 3: of writers started to move there to want to write 533 00:22:41,594 --> 00:22:44,593 Speaker 3: like think pieces. A lot of emerging writers use it 534 00:22:44,674 --> 00:22:48,194 Speaker 3: to kind of like form a community and get followers. 535 00:22:48,874 --> 00:22:53,474 Speaker 3: Now we're seeing a surge of celebrities using it, and 536 00:22:53,514 --> 00:22:54,994 Speaker 3: this is actually really controversial. 537 00:22:55,314 --> 00:22:58,274 Speaker 2: Yeah, so I feel so bad. 538 00:22:58,634 --> 00:23:02,553 Speaker 3: But substack has also a ranking system, so kind of 539 00:23:02,554 --> 00:23:05,674 Speaker 3: like Twitter when you go into like what's trending and 540 00:23:05,714 --> 00:23:07,394 Speaker 3: you see like the top tweets of the day and 541 00:23:07,434 --> 00:23:10,274 Speaker 3: the top people who follow today. Subsac has the same thing. 542 00:23:10,274 --> 00:23:12,914 Speaker 3: They have like a best seller's list, meaning like which 543 00:23:12,914 --> 00:23:15,634 Speaker 3: substacks are getting the most traction depending on like how 544 00:23:15,634 --> 00:23:18,314 Speaker 3: many subscribers are getting, how many reads they're getting, how 545 00:23:18,314 --> 00:23:22,234 Speaker 3: many likes interactions they're getting. And what writers have been 546 00:23:22,234 --> 00:23:24,394 Speaker 3: doing is that they've been going on substack trying to 547 00:23:24,394 --> 00:23:26,434 Speaker 3: make a following, and their aim is to get on 548 00:23:26,474 --> 00:23:28,674 Speaker 3: that list because when you get on that best sellers list, 549 00:23:28,714 --> 00:23:31,674 Speaker 3: that means you get more visibility on your work, more 550 00:23:31,714 --> 00:23:34,234 Speaker 3: people follow you, more people like your work, and as 551 00:23:34,234 --> 00:23:37,754 Speaker 3: a writer, that is really really important. And as writers, 552 00:23:37,794 --> 00:23:40,434 Speaker 3: you know that it's really hard to grow an email list, 553 00:23:40,754 --> 00:23:43,634 Speaker 3: Like even getting like one hundred people to read your 554 00:23:43,674 --> 00:23:46,394 Speaker 3: work is a huge, huge deal, especially as an emerging writer. 555 00:23:46,874 --> 00:23:50,914 Speaker 3: So now we're getting these celebrities come onto subsack, promote 556 00:23:50,914 --> 00:23:55,114 Speaker 3: their substack through their social media and immediately start with 557 00:23:55,634 --> 00:24:00,514 Speaker 3: like ten thousand subscribers, yes, which is huge. And what's 558 00:24:00,554 --> 00:24:03,074 Speaker 3: been happening is that substack users who've been on the 559 00:24:03,074 --> 00:24:06,394 Speaker 3: platform for a really long time are not happy. So 560 00:24:06,514 --> 00:24:10,114 Speaker 3: the first kind of bit of controversy we saw was 561 00:24:10,154 --> 00:24:15,074 Speaker 3: with famous writers themselves. Glennon Doyle came on substack literally 562 00:24:15,074 --> 00:24:16,354 Speaker 3: got bullied off of it in a day. 563 00:24:16,554 --> 00:24:17,914 Speaker 2: Remember that it was wow. 564 00:24:18,034 --> 00:24:20,834 Speaker 3: So she came on substack. She's a famous, famous author, 565 00:24:20,914 --> 00:24:24,314 Speaker 3: has so many followers on socials, came on subsack, made 566 00:24:24,354 --> 00:24:27,114 Speaker 3: a subscription account, so she had to pay to her writing. 567 00:24:27,794 --> 00:24:31,594 Speaker 3: There were so many substacks about her starting substacks, so 568 00:24:31,594 --> 00:24:33,914 Speaker 3: so many people doing things pieces like should Glenn and 569 00:24:33,954 --> 00:24:37,434 Speaker 3: Doyle have a subsack, And the general consensus from the 570 00:24:37,474 --> 00:24:40,553 Speaker 3: wider public on subseack was no, Yeah, Like substack is 571 00:24:40,554 --> 00:24:43,074 Speaker 3: for writers who want to find the following, and she 572 00:24:43,234 --> 00:24:44,994 Speaker 3: was taking and the minute she came on, she immediately 573 00:24:45,034 --> 00:24:46,954 Speaker 3: went on their best sellers list. Exactly, we start even 574 00:24:46,954 --> 00:24:49,273 Speaker 3: writing any other people down here. And I totally understand 575 00:24:49,314 --> 00:24:51,474 Speaker 3: that from those writers, because the reason a lot of 576 00:24:51,474 --> 00:24:54,514 Speaker 3: people have moved to substack isn't this right? Because they 577 00:24:54,794 --> 00:24:57,714 Speaker 3: were trying to get followings through social media platforms. 578 00:24:57,914 --> 00:25:01,234 Speaker 2: But that's not just about organic discovery anymore. It's about 579 00:25:01,274 --> 00:25:04,274 Speaker 2: paying for placement. It's about being able to cheat the algorithm. 580 00:25:04,394 --> 00:25:06,273 Speaker 2: It's about how much should have been good looking at 581 00:25:06,314 --> 00:25:08,994 Speaker 2: you got Exactly. It's about being a writer now has 582 00:25:09,034 --> 00:25:11,314 Speaker 2: become and also being a podcaster to be fair across 583 00:25:11,354 --> 00:25:13,314 Speaker 2: a lot of platforms has become about how you look. 584 00:25:13,394 --> 00:25:16,114 Speaker 2: So it has knocked all these other creators out of 585 00:25:16,154 --> 00:25:18,674 Speaker 2: the way, and it's so much harder to find an 586 00:25:18,674 --> 00:25:21,273 Speaker 2: audience there. You also don't own that audience, and so 587 00:25:22,354 --> 00:25:26,234 Speaker 2: substack became the place where people could go and go 588 00:25:26,314 --> 00:25:29,313 Speaker 2: back to those days of organic discovery, and when an 589 00:25:29,394 --> 00:25:32,274 Speaker 2: established name comes in, whether you're right, whether they're a writer, 590 00:25:32,394 --> 00:25:35,114 Speaker 2: a podcast or an actor, it just knocks the whole 591 00:25:35,154 --> 00:25:36,033 Speaker 2: algorithm out and. 592 00:25:36,074 --> 00:25:38,394 Speaker 3: Knocks the whole algorithm out. And even as a subsach 593 00:25:38,474 --> 00:25:40,234 Speaker 3: years of myself and I've been on there for years 594 00:25:40,234 --> 00:25:42,114 Speaker 3: and I don't have a substac I'm just there as 595 00:25:42,194 --> 00:25:45,314 Speaker 3: like a user. Yeah, I've noticed a changing. I've noticed 596 00:25:45,354 --> 00:25:48,154 Speaker 3: the algorithm changing. I've noticed I've been fed more and 597 00:25:48,234 --> 00:25:51,553 Speaker 3: more celebrity content. The number one celebrity I always get 598 00:25:51,594 --> 00:25:54,074 Speaker 3: fed as Jamala Jamil and she kind of like, I 599 00:25:54,114 --> 00:25:56,034 Speaker 3: feel like a lot of people have accepted her on substack. 600 00:25:56,154 --> 00:25:59,434 Speaker 3: She has I think just over fifteen k subscribers. But 601 00:25:59,554 --> 00:26:02,634 Speaker 3: she did a big piece on how like the Instagram 602 00:26:02,674 --> 00:26:05,714 Speaker 3: algorithm is she's an activist and the Instagram algorithm is 603 00:26:05,714 --> 00:26:08,474 Speaker 3: stopping all of her activism work on Instagram to be 604 00:26:08,554 --> 00:26:11,114 Speaker 3: seen because it just like shuts that down. And she 605 00:26:11,154 --> 00:26:14,234 Speaker 3: even does these posts on Instagram with like lipstick and 606 00:26:14,274 --> 00:26:15,754 Speaker 3: like her tits ound and she's like, this is the 607 00:26:15,754 --> 00:26:17,554 Speaker 3: only way you're going to see my posts if I 608 00:26:17,634 --> 00:26:18,554 Speaker 3: look like this, And it's so. 609 00:26:18,514 --> 00:26:23,314 Speaker 2: True because yeah, all of her content feminism, abortion, eating disorders, politea. 610 00:26:23,394 --> 00:26:24,874 Speaker 3: It never makes my feet that stuff. 611 00:26:25,034 --> 00:26:26,954 Speaker 2: Well, yeah, even if you go to her stories and 612 00:26:26,954 --> 00:26:29,714 Speaker 2: look for it, and it's often. I know, the platform say 613 00:26:29,754 --> 00:26:31,434 Speaker 2: shadow banning is not a real thing, but it does 614 00:26:31,434 --> 00:26:32,394 Speaker 2: get a hidden from view. 615 00:26:32,914 --> 00:26:35,553 Speaker 3: And so I only ever saw her selfies on my Instagram, 616 00:26:35,594 --> 00:26:37,514 Speaker 3: which is what she was trying to prove. So she's 617 00:26:37,554 --> 00:26:39,434 Speaker 3: moved over to sub sac I mean, she still posts 618 00:26:39,474 --> 00:26:42,354 Speaker 3: on Instagram, but she posts like essays on subsack and 619 00:26:42,434 --> 00:26:44,634 Speaker 3: the algorithm does not affect her because if you are 620 00:26:44,634 --> 00:26:46,874 Speaker 3: following her and if you subscribe to her, you will 621 00:26:47,034 --> 00:26:50,714 Speaker 3: get her work regardless. What we are seeing though, is 622 00:26:50,754 --> 00:26:53,834 Speaker 3: more and more celebrities, kind of like how celebrities a 623 00:26:53,834 --> 00:26:56,474 Speaker 3: few years ago or went into podcasting. 624 00:26:56,274 --> 00:26:58,313 Speaker 2: Yes, or maybe that's exactly what I was thinking of. 625 00:26:58,354 --> 00:26:59,513 Speaker 2: This happened, Well, we they're. 626 00:26:59,354 --> 00:27:02,674 Speaker 3: Coming for our other job, for her first job, and 627 00:27:02,674 --> 00:27:03,794 Speaker 3: now they're coming to our secondary. 628 00:27:03,794 --> 00:27:05,513 Speaker 2: I know, I was like we were writing and then 629 00:27:05,554 --> 00:27:07,474 Speaker 2: they were. Now they've all gone on substance. Now we 630 00:27:07,474 --> 00:27:09,513 Speaker 2: went into podcasting, they've gone into podcasting. This so I 631 00:27:09,554 --> 00:27:11,954 Speaker 2: always say, goo, do your actual job. So many people 632 00:27:11,954 --> 00:27:14,234 Speaker 2: want to be actors and there's so few jobs in 633 00:27:14,274 --> 00:27:16,354 Speaker 2: that area, or so many people want to be pop stars. 634 00:27:16,634 --> 00:27:19,234 Speaker 2: Like the other day, I was like, grateful what you have, 635 00:27:19,434 --> 00:27:23,394 Speaker 2: Just take do your own job, not us gate keeping 636 00:27:23,474 --> 00:27:23,834 Speaker 2: our jobs. 637 00:27:23,874 --> 00:27:25,634 Speaker 3: But it's not even us skate keeping our jobs for 638 00:27:25,794 --> 00:27:29,833 Speaker 3: me personally, it's firstly, there's the whole idea that everyone 639 00:27:29,834 --> 00:27:32,994 Speaker 3: wants to move off of Meta, which is fair yeap. 640 00:27:33,314 --> 00:27:35,914 Speaker 3: Meta is still working for the people who are wanting 641 00:27:35,954 --> 00:27:39,434 Speaker 3: to move off it, And it's more just about writing 642 00:27:39,474 --> 00:27:42,234 Speaker 3: as a normy job. Yeah, it's so in coming from 643 00:27:42,274 --> 00:27:43,034 Speaker 3: our normy jobs. 644 00:27:43,034 --> 00:27:46,114 Speaker 2: What is the allure of writing an essay or a podcast? 645 00:27:46,154 --> 00:27:48,794 Speaker 2: Like I understand it, but is the allure there when 646 00:27:48,834 --> 00:27:51,594 Speaker 2: you're a songwriter who can do that through song Like 647 00:27:51,674 --> 00:27:54,313 Speaker 2: Charlie XCX is not only a songwriter and performer, but 648 00:27:54,394 --> 00:27:57,154 Speaker 2: now she's moving into being a full time actress. She's 649 00:27:57,194 --> 00:27:58,954 Speaker 2: got so many acting roles lined up. She's all this 650 00:27:59,034 --> 00:28:01,714 Speaker 2: kind of creativity and I find it so interesting when 651 00:28:01,754 --> 00:28:05,474 Speaker 2: people like her or Jua Lipa, who is telling our stadiums. 652 00:28:05,714 --> 00:28:09,154 Speaker 2: She has our publication, her own publication that she writes 653 00:28:09,154 --> 00:28:11,674 Speaker 2: for and to write for. She's a podcast like why 654 00:28:11,714 --> 00:28:15,114 Speaker 2: am I watching Dua Liipa interview Helen Ghana. I'm not 655 00:28:15,114 --> 00:28:16,834 Speaker 2: saying she can't do it, but it's just a week. 656 00:28:16,914 --> 00:28:19,074 Speaker 3: Why aren't we interviewing a Limpcama. 657 00:28:19,514 --> 00:28:21,474 Speaker 2: It's just I watched those clips and I went and 658 00:28:21,514 --> 00:28:23,114 Speaker 2: listened to the full podcast because I have listened to 659 00:28:23,154 --> 00:28:26,154 Speaker 2: Dua Lipa's podcast before and it's just so interesting of 660 00:28:26,194 --> 00:28:30,114 Speaker 2: like this being the most that pop culture and cultural 661 00:28:30,314 --> 00:28:34,154 Speaker 2: commentary through writing and podcasting has become the one place 662 00:28:34,154 --> 00:28:36,914 Speaker 2: in the world where everyone wants to go, regardless of 663 00:28:36,914 --> 00:28:39,514 Speaker 2: the fact that they were already in what was seen 664 00:28:39,634 --> 00:28:42,394 Speaker 2: as the hardest industry to get, the most coveted industry 665 00:28:42,394 --> 00:28:42,954 Speaker 2: to get into. 666 00:28:43,234 --> 00:28:45,994 Speaker 3: I think it's more to do with, like, you're a 667 00:28:46,034 --> 00:28:48,194 Speaker 3: type of person who has like the utmost fame, Like 668 00:28:48,234 --> 00:28:52,954 Speaker 3: you have millions of followers across Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, You're 669 00:28:52,954 --> 00:28:55,874 Speaker 3: getting like millions of Spotify listens. Everyone's watching your movies, 670 00:28:56,274 --> 00:28:58,714 Speaker 3: So like, why wouldn't you try to hone that on 671 00:28:58,834 --> 00:29:01,234 Speaker 3: every other platform you caain? Which is why I do 672 00:29:01,274 --> 00:29:04,234 Speaker 3: see the appeal of celebrities moving to subseac because we're 673 00:29:04,314 --> 00:29:07,074 Speaker 3: all moving to substac So why wouldn't you go where 674 00:29:07,194 --> 00:29:09,034 Speaker 3: your audience is going so you can get them there 675 00:29:09,114 --> 00:29:12,834 Speaker 3: as well? Honestly wouldn't be surprised if, like Pinterest starts 676 00:29:12,834 --> 00:29:15,114 Speaker 3: becoming a thing. Yeah, and you're the celebrity's like, oh 677 00:29:15,154 --> 00:29:17,674 Speaker 3: my god, my fans pin things. Yeah, I'm going to 678 00:29:17,714 --> 00:29:18,594 Speaker 3: be on Pinterest too. 679 00:29:18,754 --> 00:29:20,954 Speaker 2: Next time I'm going to be reading Kim Kardashian substack. 680 00:29:20,994 --> 00:29:25,874 Speaker 3: I'm like, I'm not even joking. I give it a 681 00:29:25,954 --> 00:29:29,114 Speaker 3: year to get skims or Kim on subsack. 682 00:29:29,554 --> 00:29:31,554 Speaker 2: She's probably already there now, We've probably just missed it. 683 00:29:31,714 --> 00:29:33,554 Speaker 2: You know. What I think is also interesting about this 684 00:29:33,954 --> 00:29:37,794 Speaker 2: is that it's kind of undone, this idea that celebrities, 685 00:29:37,914 --> 00:29:42,794 Speaker 2: the really big celebrities, don't need traditional media or a 686 00:29:42,834 --> 00:29:45,594 Speaker 2: third party to reach their audiences. Yeah, that became a 687 00:29:45,634 --> 00:29:47,794 Speaker 2: thing after a while because they were like, no, celebrities 688 00:29:47,834 --> 00:29:50,834 Speaker 2: all had their own platforms. Now they don't need to 689 00:29:51,154 --> 00:29:53,914 Speaker 2: rely on anyone else. They don't need to do press cycles, 690 00:29:53,914 --> 00:29:55,674 Speaker 2: they don't need to do magazine covers, that don't need 691 00:29:55,754 --> 00:29:58,914 Speaker 2: to like come on other people's podcasts because they now 692 00:29:58,954 --> 00:30:01,434 Speaker 2: have a direct line to audiences and they hold all 693 00:30:01,474 --> 00:30:04,994 Speaker 2: the power. And now I'm thinking, is that power balance 694 00:30:05,034 --> 00:30:08,474 Speaker 2: starting to shift because now they need they also all 695 00:30:08,514 --> 00:30:11,314 Speaker 2: now need this huge secondary outlet, Yeah, to get their 696 00:30:11,354 --> 00:30:14,194 Speaker 2: products out there, and instead of going to traditional media, 697 00:30:14,354 --> 00:30:17,474 Speaker 2: they're trying to just almost start their own media companies. 698 00:30:17,674 --> 00:30:17,914 Speaker 3: Yeah. 699 00:30:17,954 --> 00:30:19,674 Speaker 2: And it's like the only way you can be truly 700 00:30:19,714 --> 00:30:22,034 Speaker 2: famous right now as a celebrity is not to have 701 00:30:22,274 --> 00:30:24,354 Speaker 2: the number one movie in the world, the number one 702 00:30:24,394 --> 00:30:26,874 Speaker 2: album or anything like that, or the number one TV show. 703 00:30:27,154 --> 00:30:29,794 Speaker 2: It's to have the number one media company that you 704 00:30:29,874 --> 00:30:33,514 Speaker 2: self run and self finance to get your message out there. 705 00:30:33,754 --> 00:30:33,954 Speaker 3: Yeah. 706 00:30:33,994 --> 00:30:35,394 Speaker 2: That's kind of terrifying thought. 707 00:30:35,514 --> 00:30:37,914 Speaker 3: It's terrifying because like they'll all be competitors and then 708 00:30:37,954 --> 00:30:39,674 Speaker 3: we'll have to go figure out which ones we want 709 00:30:39,674 --> 00:30:39,834 Speaker 3: to work. 710 00:30:39,874 --> 00:30:41,794 Speaker 2: It's still even that I mean that is I mean, look, 711 00:30:41,794 --> 00:30:43,794 Speaker 2: I'll go work for Julie, but apparently she pays her 712 00:30:44,234 --> 00:30:47,314 Speaker 2: freelances really well. I'd go and serve twenty five, hit 713 00:30:47,394 --> 00:30:51,474 Speaker 2: me up my resume, lands in box, I'll interview here 714 00:30:51,674 --> 00:30:53,874 Speaker 2: Helen Gana for you. I'll just do the research. I 715 00:30:53,874 --> 00:30:54,674 Speaker 2: don't have to be on that. 716 00:30:54,834 --> 00:30:57,994 Speaker 3: It's also like really annoying, Like there are like celebrity 717 00:30:58,034 --> 00:31:01,034 Speaker 3: podcasts where like, for example, Amy Polo is Good Hang 718 00:31:01,114 --> 00:31:02,714 Speaker 3: which I listen, which I listen, And I. 719 00:31:02,754 --> 00:31:05,754 Speaker 2: Know we're such backtrackers because we're just like, don't make 720 00:31:05,794 --> 00:31:08,554 Speaker 2: podcasts if you're a celebrity. It's a celebrity we like does. 721 00:31:08,434 --> 00:31:10,394 Speaker 3: It and it's like I watched that on my TV, 722 00:31:10,554 --> 00:31:12,514 Speaker 3: like I'm that into it. It's like I played on 723 00:31:12,554 --> 00:31:14,954 Speaker 3: my TV like it's a movie. And it's one of 724 00:31:14,994 --> 00:31:17,914 Speaker 3: those things where like it's so nice to watch, but 725 00:31:17,954 --> 00:31:20,434 Speaker 3: it's also one of those things where like, oh, a 726 00:31:20,514 --> 00:31:23,674 Speaker 3: normal podcaster like who've started it like us, Yeah, will 727 00:31:23,714 --> 00:31:26,274 Speaker 3: never get to that level because it's just the celebrities 728 00:31:26,314 --> 00:31:28,594 Speaker 3: interviewing their friends and they will always get the interviews 729 00:31:28,594 --> 00:31:29,474 Speaker 3: and they'll always get it. 730 00:31:29,834 --> 00:31:31,874 Speaker 2: This is so my gripe is not just about our 731 00:31:31,914 --> 00:31:35,194 Speaker 2: future employments. My gripe is just about media and arts 732 00:31:35,194 --> 00:31:37,074 Speaker 2: in general. Like really like some of it's about me, 733 00:31:37,394 --> 00:31:39,874 Speaker 2: but some of it is also about just the industry 734 00:31:39,914 --> 00:31:42,754 Speaker 2: in general, because I do think that you lose that 735 00:31:42,874 --> 00:31:46,354 Speaker 2: proper journalism and that third party and like all the 736 00:31:46,394 --> 00:31:49,354 Speaker 2: magic that comes from a really good interior trained journalist 737 00:31:49,834 --> 00:31:52,834 Speaker 2: asking someone who they have respect for and they're being respectful, 738 00:31:52,874 --> 00:31:56,314 Speaker 2: but asking someone who they don't have a relationship with questions, 739 00:31:56,434 --> 00:31:59,714 Speaker 2: and that's how often we get those big moments celebrity friends. 740 00:31:59,994 --> 00:32:02,394 Speaker 2: Interviewing celebrity friends, Yes, you get some things that they 741 00:32:02,434 --> 00:32:05,234 Speaker 2: would never say in the press cycle, but it becomes 742 00:32:05,234 --> 00:32:10,234 Speaker 2: a very diluted in conversation of fame on fame asking 743 00:32:10,594 --> 00:32:12,634 Speaker 2: and also can I just say a personal hate that 744 00:32:12,714 --> 00:32:15,674 Speaker 2: I have? And I realized this affects mostly me as 745 00:32:15,714 --> 00:32:17,474 Speaker 2: the interviewer, but I think it affects our listeners and 746 00:32:17,474 --> 00:32:20,234 Speaker 2: our audience because they're the ones consuming the content. Is 747 00:32:20,234 --> 00:32:21,954 Speaker 2: that now that all the celebrities just want to be 748 00:32:21,994 --> 00:32:25,434 Speaker 2: interviewed by their friends, they come on normal press tours 749 00:32:25,474 --> 00:32:27,354 Speaker 2: and they can be a lot more difficult. They don't 750 00:32:27,354 --> 00:32:30,154 Speaker 2: want to answer questions. And my biggest peeve is when 751 00:32:30,314 --> 00:32:33,274 Speaker 2: someone will come to Australia do the press rounds and 752 00:32:33,314 --> 00:32:35,034 Speaker 2: you can see that journalists have really put in the 753 00:32:35,074 --> 00:32:37,674 Speaker 2: time to ask some interesting questions their fans of their work, 754 00:32:38,114 --> 00:32:41,714 Speaker 2: and they give these really kind of lukewarm answers that 755 00:32:41,834 --> 00:32:43,954 Speaker 2: don't really go anywhere, and they're pleasant enough, but you 756 00:32:43,994 --> 00:32:46,154 Speaker 2: can just tell that they're just phoning it in. Then 757 00:32:46,154 --> 00:32:48,394 Speaker 2: they head on back on their private jets to La 758 00:32:48,754 --> 00:32:50,634 Speaker 2: Go and sit in their mansions with their friends on 759 00:32:50,674 --> 00:32:53,434 Speaker 2: their podcast and talk about how annoying it was to 760 00:32:53,474 --> 00:32:56,314 Speaker 2: do the press run and then their celebrity friends asking 761 00:32:56,434 --> 00:32:58,634 Speaker 2: the same questions, would you like about this role? How 762 00:32:58,714 --> 00:33:00,834 Speaker 2: is it like working with thiss director? And they're just like, oh, man, 763 00:33:00,914 --> 00:33:02,674 Speaker 2: thanks for asking me and giving me the time to 764 00:33:02,714 --> 00:33:06,154 Speaker 2: talk and then give them the full answer. But what 765 00:33:07,234 --> 00:33:09,714 Speaker 2: for bitches? I am just gonna say amount of times 766 00:33:09,754 --> 00:33:11,954 Speaker 2: I have interviewed someone and some of them not that great? 767 00:33:11,954 --> 00:33:14,274 Speaker 2: Can I just say? And then they've gone over to armchairs. 768 00:33:14,274 --> 00:33:17,114 Speaker 3: No, I'm like, what the. 769 00:33:17,074 --> 00:33:19,514 Speaker 2: Hell are like? Oh yeah, just in Australia and everyone 770 00:33:19,514 --> 00:33:22,674 Speaker 2: asked me this stupid question. It's like you're publicist anyway. 771 00:33:22,914 --> 00:33:26,954 Speaker 2: That not to be too inside baseball, but I'm just saying. 772 00:33:26,234 --> 00:33:29,514 Speaker 3: Because like, our careers and our future is reliant on 773 00:33:29,594 --> 00:33:32,954 Speaker 3: that interview, and they're giving us what five minutes of 774 00:33:32,994 --> 00:33:34,074 Speaker 3: their time max? 775 00:33:34,474 --> 00:33:36,794 Speaker 2: Yeah, and they're going and apparently it was the. 776 00:33:36,714 --> 00:33:38,634 Speaker 3: Worst part of your day. Worry. 777 00:33:38,834 --> 00:33:40,354 Speaker 2: They're like, oh, this person asked me what I liked 778 00:33:40,354 --> 00:33:42,074 Speaker 2: about making my movie? How dare they? And I got 779 00:33:42,074 --> 00:33:43,834 Speaker 2: paid a million dollars to sit in that chair for 780 00:33:43,874 --> 00:33:46,114 Speaker 2: five minutes? And then they go back to their friend's 781 00:33:46,194 --> 00:33:51,314 Speaker 2: mansion and have a boring conversation but a longer conversation 782 00:33:51,434 --> 00:33:53,634 Speaker 2: so you get more out of it. And again, it's 783 00:33:53,714 --> 00:33:56,474 Speaker 2: not just about me. It's also about the audience because 784 00:33:56,714 --> 00:33:59,394 Speaker 2: part of the interest of art is discussion around and 785 00:33:59,434 --> 00:34:01,594 Speaker 2: interview the people who make the art, and if that 786 00:34:01,594 --> 00:34:04,554 Speaker 2: becomes diluted, I'm just saying, yeah. 787 00:34:04,794 --> 00:34:08,754 Speaker 3: I also think it's like the celebrity interviews also run 788 00:34:08,834 --> 00:34:11,594 Speaker 3: the risk when they started interviewer first, Like I started 789 00:34:11,594 --> 00:34:14,873 Speaker 3: thinking about this with Amelia de Moldenberg who does Chickenshot Date, 790 00:34:14,953 --> 00:34:17,554 Speaker 3: and Sean Evans who does Hot Ones. Yeah, they're like 791 00:34:17,674 --> 00:34:21,194 Speaker 3: such such good interviewers and have like such different gimmicky interviews, 792 00:34:21,234 --> 00:34:23,114 Speaker 3: but still gets so much out of the celebrities. But 793 00:34:23,234 --> 00:34:25,994 Speaker 3: now they're starting to like go to the same parties 794 00:34:26,234 --> 00:34:29,234 Speaker 3: and like attend the same events and becoming the celebrities. Yeah, 795 00:34:29,274 --> 00:34:31,994 Speaker 3: and I'm like, you have. It's like with celebrity interviews, 796 00:34:32,034 --> 00:34:34,794 Speaker 3: the best ones I've done with journalists who stay journalists 797 00:34:35,034 --> 00:34:36,994 Speaker 3: who are in the celebrity realm, but state Like I 798 00:34:36,994 --> 00:34:39,874 Speaker 3: always think about Louis Threw when he interviewed Armie Hammer. Yeah, 799 00:34:40,034 --> 00:34:42,593 Speaker 3: I'm like, if he if Louis Throw was more into 800 00:34:42,594 --> 00:34:44,953 Speaker 3: Hollywood than he already is, that interview could have gone 801 00:34:44,954 --> 00:34:45,634 Speaker 3: such a different roy. 802 00:34:45,754 --> 00:34:48,114 Speaker 2: Absolutely. Just think about the ones we've got with like 803 00:34:48,154 --> 00:34:51,513 Speaker 2: Bradley Cooper falling asleep, or you know, like Rihanna sending 804 00:34:51,554 --> 00:34:53,314 Speaker 2: the journalists the car to pick up the journalist at 805 00:34:53,354 --> 00:34:55,393 Speaker 2: two am and him writing about what that was like, and. 806 00:34:55,714 --> 00:34:58,514 Speaker 3: Like these Russel crowst dude, yes, oh my god, the 807 00:34:58,554 --> 00:34:59,194 Speaker 3: best into my. 808 00:34:59,274 --> 00:35:01,074 Speaker 2: Tyler, Yes, or even the guy who wanted to go 809 00:35:01,074 --> 00:35:02,634 Speaker 2: on with Paltrow's House of the Day and it was like, 810 00:35:03,354 --> 00:35:05,194 Speaker 2: I'm the biggest saying can we talk some shit? And 811 00:35:05,234 --> 00:35:07,514 Speaker 2: she was like, yeah, let's do it. Like where are 812 00:35:07,514 --> 00:35:08,594 Speaker 2: those moments going to go? 813 00:35:08,954 --> 00:35:09,474 Speaker 3: Exactly? 814 00:35:09,634 --> 00:35:10,914 Speaker 2: So no celebs on substances. 815 00:35:10,994 --> 00:35:13,154 Speaker 3: These are the subsects I want to see from those journalists. 816 00:35:13,234 --> 00:35:15,874 Speaker 2: Yes, that's all I want to see. So where we've landed. 817 00:35:15,874 --> 00:35:19,194 Speaker 2: No celebrity podcasts, no more, No celebs on substances. 818 00:35:19,234 --> 00:35:20,834 Speaker 3: I just want to do a pair. Say to celebrities, 819 00:35:20,834 --> 00:35:24,513 Speaker 3: just relax. I don't make a podcast. It's so much work, guys. Yeah, 820 00:35:24,514 --> 00:35:28,074 Speaker 3: it's so hot. Stated, everyone's really mean to you. 821 00:35:28,554 --> 00:35:31,634 Speaker 2: It's not fun, the headphone's hurt, it's a whole situation. 822 00:35:31,674 --> 00:35:32,114 Speaker 2: Don't do it. 823 00:35:33,394 --> 00:35:36,114 Speaker 3: Thank you so much for listening to the Spill today. 824 00:35:36,154 --> 00:35:39,954 Speaker 3: Also Happy Wicked Day. Wicked is officially out in cinema 825 00:35:40,034 --> 00:35:42,794 Speaker 3: is today, so many people in the office are going tonight. 826 00:35:42,834 --> 00:35:45,834 Speaker 3: They're all wearing green and pink, which is very, very lovely. 827 00:35:46,154 --> 00:35:48,433 Speaker 3: We can't wait for you to watch it because if 828 00:35:48,474 --> 00:35:50,993 Speaker 3: you watched it now other podcasts you might know about 829 00:35:50,994 --> 00:35:54,834 Speaker 3: it. It's called Watch Party. They're doing a huge, huge take 830 00:35:54,914 --> 00:35:57,754 Speaker 3: on Wicked that gets released on Saturday morning. We will 831 00:35:57,794 --> 00:36:00,154 Speaker 3: put a link to that in our show notes and 832 00:36:00,354 --> 00:36:03,553 Speaker 3: we're giving you a week to watch Wicked because next week, 833 00:36:03,754 --> 00:36:06,073 Speaker 3: next Friday, not this one coming up tomorrow, the next 834 00:36:06,074 --> 00:36:09,834 Speaker 3: one we will be doing doing our brutally honest review, 835 00:36:10,314 --> 00:36:12,754 Speaker 3: and I think this one's a really really good one. 836 00:36:12,834 --> 00:36:14,953 Speaker 3: If you haven't listened to our first bally honest review 837 00:36:14,954 --> 00:36:17,514 Speaker 3: on our first Wicked movie, listen to that as well. 838 00:36:17,514 --> 00:36:19,154 Speaker 3: Do it back to back, a movie back to back 839 00:36:19,154 --> 00:36:21,433 Speaker 3: and then a podcast back to back. We will see 840 00:36:21,474 --> 00:36:23,954 Speaker 3: you then. The Spill is produced by Monetias Whi and 841 00:36:23,994 --> 00:36:25,594 Speaker 3: resound production by Scott's Tronk. 842 00:36:25,794 --> 00:36:38,874 Speaker 2: Bye Bye, Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of the land. 843 00:36:38,914 --> 00:36:41,873 Speaker 2: We have recorded this podcast on the Gatigol people of 844 00:36:41,914 --> 00:36:45,314 Speaker 2: the eorination. We pay our respects to their elders past 845 00:36:45,394 --> 00:36:48,274 Speaker 2: and present, and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and 846 00:36:48,314 --> 00:36:49,754 Speaker 2: Torres Strait Islander cultures.