WEBVTT - The Coldplay Affair. And What The Internet Did Next. 0:00:10.622 --> 0:00:13.341 You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast. 0:00:13.822 --> 0:00:17.182 Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters 0:00:17.222 --> 0:00:18.982 that this podcast is recorded on. 0:00:20.942 --> 0:00:24.142 Hello and welcome to Momma Mia. Out loud What women 0:00:24.182 --> 0:00:27.502 are actually talking about? On Monday, the twenty first of July, 0:00:27.862 --> 0:00:32.141 excuse me, I went on holiday and our tagline appears 0:00:32.182 --> 0:00:33.142 to have changed again. 0:00:33.342 --> 0:00:33.942 What's going on? 0:00:34.982 --> 0:00:35.222 Well? 0:00:36.182 --> 0:00:38.821 I was bored of the old one. And also sometimes 0:00:38.862 --> 0:00:41.181 people got upset because if we talked about something that 0:00:41.182 --> 0:00:44.461 they weren't talking about, they tried to say that they 0:00:44.462 --> 0:00:46.982 weren't talking about it. So I tried to make for 0:00:47.062 --> 0:00:47.662 gender happen. 0:00:47.782 --> 0:00:48.902 Yeah, that was like fetch. 0:00:49.022 --> 0:00:50.662 I couldn't make it happen. You know, one like to 0:00:50.742 --> 0:00:51.222 axing me. 0:00:51.462 --> 0:00:53.982 What women are talking about is the truest to out loud. 0:00:54.062 --> 0:00:56.982 I was saying before. I feel like we came into 0:00:56.982 --> 0:00:59.982 work with a loud hat on. We tried to see 0:01:00.022 --> 0:01:02.182 if it suited us and if people gave us compliments. 0:01:02.422 --> 0:01:04.382 Neither of those things happened, and now we're coming back 0:01:04.382 --> 0:01:06.021 to work the next day without the hat and we're 0:01:06.021 --> 0:01:07.782 not saying anything We tried to say. 0:01:07.661 --> 0:01:10.342 Women come to debrief that that just sounded a bit defeated. 0:01:10.581 --> 0:01:14.862 It sounded passive, and we're nothing if not inconsistent. 0:01:15.022 --> 0:01:19.662 Yeah, well, look, I'm Holly Wainwright. I'm maist High Holidays, 0:01:19.742 --> 0:01:22.182 and I think we're thinking about ourselves a little too much. 0:01:22.342 --> 0:01:22.902 That's what I do. 0:01:23.062 --> 0:01:25.382 That'll be a thing true. I'm me A Friedman and 0:01:25.462 --> 0:01:26.542 I'm Jesse Stevens. 0:01:27.182 --> 0:01:30.782 And here is what is on our agenda for today. 0:01:31.182 --> 0:01:34.182 The moment that brought the Internet together we need to 0:01:34.262 --> 0:01:37.902 unpack in a revolting amount of detail, the Coldplay kiss 0:01:37.942 --> 0:01:38.702 Can discourse. 0:01:38.902 --> 0:01:39.622 I can't wait. 0:01:39.782 --> 0:01:43.142 Also, my imaginary friend Gwyneth Paltrow is the subject of 0:01:43.142 --> 0:01:46.142 a tea soaked new unauthorized biography or. 0:01:46.502 --> 0:01:50.582 Is she plus main character? Energy is ruining our public spaces. 0:01:51.182 --> 0:01:55.182 People are pooing in public pools and adams, yes, adults 0:01:55.462 --> 0:01:59.062 and newly returned europe correspondent has some stories to share. 0:01:59.062 --> 0:02:01.742 But first, I just wanted to thank me out louders 0:02:01.902 --> 0:02:05.502 for all their lovely messages. At the end of last week, 0:02:05.662 --> 0:02:08.902 after I shared a story about pregnancy loss, I was 0:02:09.621 --> 0:02:13.582 in undated with messages, all of them so kind like 0:02:13.702 --> 0:02:18.462 our out louder community is just remarkable. And I was 0:02:18.502 --> 0:02:21.782 listening to an episode of Ezracline recently and he was 0:02:21.782 --> 0:02:24.262 speaking to this person who's a Buddhist, and the Buddhist 0:02:24.342 --> 0:02:26.862 was saying that there's a story that they tell about 0:02:26.902 --> 0:02:30.862 a woman who's grieving, and the Buddha says, if you 0:02:30.942 --> 0:02:33.542 want to recover, you just have to go and find 0:02:33.622 --> 0:02:36.662 this mustard seed. But you have to find it, you 0:02:36.702 --> 0:02:39.181 have to go around and ask this whole village, find 0:02:39.222 --> 0:02:42.142 it from someone who has never experienced grief. And so 0:02:42.181 --> 0:02:43.942 she goes and tries to find this mustard seed, and 0:02:43.982 --> 0:02:46.102 of course every house that she enters, they too have 0:02:46.181 --> 0:02:50.022 their own story of grief. And why that story is 0:02:50.062 --> 0:02:55.061 so powerful is because it's in that connection and realizing 0:02:55.142 --> 0:02:59.422 that whatever pain you're in right now is being experienced 0:02:59.702 --> 0:03:02.382 by people all of the time. I think when we 0:03:02.422 --> 0:03:04.422 get stuck in pain, it's because we think no one 0:03:04.462 --> 0:03:06.942 else is feeling how we feel. Yeah, and I actually 0:03:07.022 --> 0:03:07.422 found it. 0:03:07.422 --> 0:03:08.422 It's the loneliness of it. 0:03:08.582 --> 0:03:10.982 Yeah, and I don't feel lonely. And there were people 0:03:11.022 --> 0:03:14.102 that I know who said to me, I had a 0:03:14.142 --> 0:03:18.022 miscarriage on the same day, like that's how common it is. 0:03:18.462 --> 0:03:22.342 But having people put words around it was just so 0:03:22.342 --> 0:03:24.742 so so comforting. So thank you to the out louders. 0:03:24.782 --> 0:03:26.662 And I also have a confession to add to that, 0:03:27.462 --> 0:03:31.582 which is, if you saw me with shopping bags over 0:03:31.622 --> 0:03:33.342 the weekend, it couldn't. 0:03:32.982 --> 0:03:34.182 Have been you because you're not buying. 0:03:34.222 --> 0:03:37.182 You're not. Twenty twenty five is don't buy anything year 0:03:37.222 --> 0:03:38.142 for Jesse friends. 0:03:38.182 --> 0:03:39.062 I was feeling pain. 0:03:39.742 --> 0:03:40.782 The year is thrift. 0:03:40.902 --> 0:03:42.182 I thought, what would Maya Friedman do? 0:03:42.742 --> 0:03:44.702 Should do? I should go and buy something. 0:03:44.702 --> 0:03:47.902 And the Maya it helped. I'm sorry, I'm sorry I've 0:03:47.902 --> 0:03:51.222 been thrifting, but trying to get secondhand jeans is too hard, 0:03:51.262 --> 0:03:54.182 and so I went, you know what, Jesse, be kind 0:03:54.182 --> 0:03:56.862 to yourself and go and buy some new things, and 0:03:56.902 --> 0:03:58.582 it did help. I'm not going to do it again, 0:03:58.902 --> 0:04:00.502 but I just have to confess because I'm sure out 0:04:00.542 --> 0:04:01.982 louders saw me, and I'm sure that they were going 0:04:02.062 --> 0:04:04.702 to write an unauthorized biography about the time Jesse broke 0:04:04.702 --> 0:04:05.102 her promise. 0:04:05.222 --> 0:04:08.062 I recommend it. Some people eat their feelings. I shop 0:04:08.182 --> 0:04:09.862 for my feelings. Help. 0:04:09.902 --> 0:04:13.262 It does help us, Ah, Jesse, I listened obviously to 0:04:13.302 --> 0:04:15.622 what you said, and like all those out louders who 0:04:15.662 --> 0:04:19.022 contacted you, I just thought it was brilliantly put and 0:04:19.062 --> 0:04:21.861 thank you for sharing it now they're making you feel 0:04:21.902 --> 0:04:22.981 the way you made them. 0:04:23.022 --> 0:04:26.541 Hmmm, we'd like to say hello to some of you 0:04:26.621 --> 0:04:36.101 in the crowd. How are we going to do that is, 0:04:36.101 --> 0:04:39.222 we're going to use our cameras and put some of 0:04:39.301 --> 0:04:43.581 the other big screen. So please, if you haven't done 0:04:43.582 --> 0:04:45.662 your makeup, do your makeup now. 0:04:46.342 --> 0:04:49.581 This time a week ago, very few people knew the 0:04:49.662 --> 0:04:53.741 name or were familiar with the face of CEO Andy Byron, 0:04:54.301 --> 0:04:57.421 a married man and father of two. Byron decided on 0:04:57.501 --> 0:05:01.541 Wednesday night to attend a Coldplay concert in Boston, which would, 0:05:01.741 --> 0:05:06.061 as it happens, blow up his entire life. So here's 0:05:06.061 --> 0:05:09.901 what actually happened. Coldplay was playing the Jumbo t So 0:05:10.541 --> 0:05:12.782 when a kiss cam landed on a man and a 0:05:12.821 --> 0:05:16.582 woman cuddling and they were watching the. 0:05:16.582 --> 0:05:19.101 Stage, is a kiss cam supposed to be? I know 0:05:19.181 --> 0:05:21.182 this is a really dumb question, but you know there 0:05:21.181 --> 0:05:23.981 are no dumb questions. When the camera lands on you. 0:05:23.981 --> 0:05:25.981 You're meant to like do a little performance for it, 0:05:25.981 --> 0:05:28.621 aren't you? Like do a kiss play to it? 0:05:28.741 --> 0:05:31.541 And this is a thing that happens at Coldplay concerts, right, 0:05:31.621 --> 0:05:34.702 and some football games. And yes, and they go and 0:05:34.981 --> 0:05:38.381 scout like the videographer who's there goes and scouts people 0:05:38.421 --> 0:05:40.941 and sort of says, okay, let's go to these these people. 0:05:40.981 --> 0:05:43.861 They look quite cuddly, and so went to this couple. 0:05:44.022 --> 0:05:47.222 But something really unusual happened, which was that they jumped 0:05:47.222 --> 0:05:51.222 apart and immediately attempted to hide their faces, and Chris Martin, 0:05:51.301 --> 0:05:53.541 who's the lead singer of Coldplay, said. 0:05:53.981 --> 0:05:58.222 Oh, what either having an affair or. 0:06:00.621 --> 0:06:04.941 I hope we didn't do something bad. Now we can 0:06:05.061 --> 0:06:08.101 argue about who might have done something bad, but something 0:06:08.222 --> 0:06:11.422 very bad did indeed happen. A twenty eight year old 0:06:11.501 --> 0:06:15.101 named Grace Springer filmed that moment and then she uploaded 0:06:15.142 --> 0:06:17.981 it to social media, and by the following day, the 0:06:18.061 --> 0:06:19.582 pair had been identified. 0:06:19.741 --> 0:06:22.421 Why did she do that? Out of interest? Like she 0:06:22.821 --> 0:06:26.301 actually interviews everybody involved made content. 0:06:26.702 --> 0:06:30.782 She says that she saw it and when all something 0:06:30.861 --> 0:06:32.941 tense has happened here, I'm not quite sure what it is. 0:06:33.061 --> 0:06:35.222 I'll upload it and let the internet figure it out. 0:06:35.262 --> 0:06:39.181 Because she thought if either of those partners are watching, 0:06:39.262 --> 0:06:40.181 like they have the right to know. 0:06:40.301 --> 0:06:42.061 So she thought she was doing God's work. 0:06:42.501 --> 0:06:44.901 She thought she was I think she showed it to 0:06:44.941 --> 0:06:47.621 her friends, and her friends all went, oh my god, 0:06:47.702 --> 0:06:49.861 you've got to upload about it, and it's. 0:06:49.741 --> 0:06:52.821 Going to go viral, viewed more than one hundred million times. 0:06:53.262 --> 0:06:55.782 I want to ask before we go any further, tell 0:06:55.821 --> 0:06:58.541 me what your initial reaction was when you saw this 0:06:58.621 --> 0:06:59.822 video at the end of last week. 0:07:00.022 --> 0:07:00.421 Ma'am. 0:07:01.981 --> 0:07:06.741 I thought this is incredible, Oh my god, and I 0:07:06.821 --> 0:07:10.261 sort of laughed a little bit. Yeah, but there, I 0:07:10.302 --> 0:07:13.862 guess because we work in the media and we're very 0:07:14.142 --> 0:07:19.221 familiar with, you know, public shaming and virality. I felt 0:07:19.222 --> 0:07:23.342 a bit sick from the beginning because I get very 0:07:23.381 --> 0:07:25.942 caught up in how people's lives can change in an instant. 0:07:25.982 --> 0:07:29.142 You know Lee's sales book Any Ordinary Day, where she 0:07:29.182 --> 0:07:32.982 talks to people who've suffered tragedies, usually accidents or the 0:07:33.142 --> 0:07:36.742 loss of a loved one very suddenly. And I know 0:07:36.862 --> 0:07:39.422 this isn't that, but that sense of even when you 0:07:39.462 --> 0:07:41.622 were just saying that they woke up and they went 0:07:41.821 --> 0:07:44.142 let's and you know, it turns out they were having 0:07:44.182 --> 0:07:47.662 an affair, but they went, let's go to this Coldplay concert, 0:07:47.702 --> 0:07:50.581 and you think about them, every step they took and 0:07:50.622 --> 0:07:54.542 every single decision that got to that point, and then oblivion. 0:07:54.782 --> 0:07:56.702 Holly, how about you? How did you respond when you 0:07:56.742 --> 0:07:57.942 first saw it, Well, I. 0:07:57.982 --> 0:08:00.542 Just thought it was really juicy. I was immediately like, 0:08:00.582 --> 0:08:03.102 what an idiot? Those were my first thoughts. It's like, 0:08:03.902 --> 0:08:05.422 and I don't know why, but of course I thought 0:08:05.422 --> 0:08:07.582 he was an idiot rather than her. That's my own 0:08:07.662 --> 0:08:10.822 personal prejudice. I thought, what absolute idiot, and then I 0:08:10.862 --> 0:08:13.381 went ha ha ha. And then of course I didn't 0:08:13.381 --> 0:08:14.622 necessarily keep thinking that. 0:08:14.902 --> 0:08:18.422 I do agree that I thought it was very funny 0:08:18.462 --> 0:08:21.062 and immediately wanted to send it to people because I 0:08:21.222 --> 0:08:23.261 was like, I think as well, there was this moment 0:08:23.342 --> 0:08:27.742 of like, doesn't everyone know a CEO or a CEO 0:08:27.782 --> 0:08:31.182 coded person who has or is currently cheating on their 0:08:31.222 --> 0:08:34.382 wife and appears to experience no repercussions as a result. 0:08:34.502 --> 0:08:37.422 And also that in that I mean and we didn't 0:08:37.462 --> 0:08:39.102 know this when we very first saw it, but when 0:08:39.102 --> 0:08:41.302 it became apparent the story of who they were, a 0:08:41.342 --> 0:08:43.422 lot of people cheat with people at work like that 0:08:43.582 --> 0:08:45.942 is a place that happens a lot, and if those 0:08:45.942 --> 0:08:49.022 people are particularly senior, often a lot of people within 0:08:49.062 --> 0:08:51.062 the business will know that that's happening, but it's just 0:08:51.102 --> 0:08:53.462 all accepted that we just don't talk about it, and 0:08:53.502 --> 0:08:57.022 all those kind of things. Originally, I thought, oh, imagine 0:08:57.022 --> 0:08:59.182 if they were all, like the whole team was there. 0:08:59.302 --> 0:09:00.862 You know, that isn't what turned out to have happened. 0:09:00.902 --> 0:09:03.902 But I told myself many stories, and then I started 0:09:03.902 --> 0:09:06.302 to see all those like letters to this man's wife 0:09:06.342 --> 0:09:08.182 and everything on the internet, and I was like, oh, dear, 0:09:08.382 --> 0:09:08.942 I sound. 0:09:08.782 --> 0:09:10.662 A bit sactimonious when I say that, like what I 0:09:10.702 --> 0:09:13.662 said before, because it's not like I also didn't go, yeah, 0:09:13.702 --> 0:09:15.982 that was jucy. And I wanted to know cause I 0:09:16.022 --> 0:09:19.102 wanted to know more. Who's she, Who's he? How that? What? 0:09:19.582 --> 0:09:22.422 You know? I wanted. I was hungry to know the story. 0:09:22.582 --> 0:09:26.182 So the more came, as happens with the internet. Byron 0:09:26.382 --> 0:09:29.182 is fifty. He was the CEO of Astronomers, which is 0:09:29.182 --> 0:09:31.982 a tech firm, and the woman he was with was 0:09:32.102 --> 0:09:35.342 revealed to be Kristen Cabot. She is the chief people 0:09:35.382 --> 0:09:39.142 officer the same company, and there's ambiguity about whether she 0:09:39.462 --> 0:09:43.222 is still married or recently separated. Right, we know that 0:09:43.462 --> 0:09:47.702 Byron married two kids. By Friday, both Byron and Cabot 0:09:47.702 --> 0:09:50.422 had been put on leave by their company, and by Saturday, 0:09:50.542 --> 0:09:53.902 Byron had resigned as CEO. She also has two kids, right, 0:09:54.102 --> 0:09:55.222 I believe, So what's that? 0:09:55.542 --> 0:09:58.062 Do you think that the put them on leave and 0:09:58.102 --> 0:10:00.862 resignation was inevitable? Like, is that how it would play 0:10:00.902 --> 0:10:03.622 in a corporate sense? You think me are always well? 0:10:03.822 --> 0:10:07.702 Before that, there was the statement that he allegedly made, 0:10:07.742 --> 0:10:10.782 which everybody shared and of people reacted to. 0:10:11.182 --> 0:10:13.822 So what's interesting is that this was one of the 0:10:13.862 --> 0:10:18.102 first viral moments in the age of AI, and so 0:10:18.182 --> 0:10:21.262 what happened was an influx of things where everyone sat 0:10:21.262 --> 0:10:24.142 there going is this real? Even I think the kiscam footage, 0:10:24.142 --> 0:10:26.982 it was sort of like is this real? So there 0:10:27.262 --> 0:10:30.862 was fake stak it a bit, yeah, fake tweets and 0:10:30.902 --> 0:10:33.342 this isn't AI related. But I was on TikTok watching 0:10:33.342 --> 0:10:37.262 his daughter post these tiktoks that said reconnecting with life 0:10:37.262 --> 0:10:39.462 after your dad's affair makes national news. I went deep 0:10:39.502 --> 0:10:41.422 on her. It turns out that was not his daughter. 0:10:41.942 --> 0:10:42.742 He doesn't have a daughter. 0:10:42.782 --> 0:10:44.862 He didn't have a daughter. So there was a coldplay 0:10:44.862 --> 0:10:47.502 tweet that read, starting with our next show, We're introducing 0:10:47.542 --> 0:10:50.262 camera free audience sections for people in their side pieces. 0:10:50.462 --> 0:10:51.302 Fake funny. 0:10:51.462 --> 0:10:53.902 Then the statement from Andy Byron. I believe that there 0:10:53.902 --> 0:10:56.502 were multiple ones, but there was one you might have 0:10:56.542 --> 0:10:58.822 seen where he expressed how troubling it was that a 0:10:58.822 --> 0:11:00.942 private moment became public without his consent. 0:11:01.142 --> 0:11:03.302 And the reason that I thought that was interesting is 0:11:03.382 --> 0:11:07.142 because that spoke to you know, we often talk about 0:11:07.262 --> 0:11:09.942 the second idea or the third idea, which is everybody 0:11:10.022 --> 0:11:12.662 reacts in one way, but then what's the bigger issue? 0:11:12.702 --> 0:11:15.102 Right if you zoom out? And I think that the 0:11:15.182 --> 0:11:17.622 reason that so many people were fooled by that statement. 0:11:17.702 --> 0:11:19.342 The only time I got a bit sus is when 0:11:19.342 --> 0:11:20.462 he quoted a culture. 0:11:20.782 --> 0:11:21.342 How it ended. 0:11:21.502 --> 0:11:23.662 But before that I was on board because it followed 0:11:23.702 --> 0:11:27.902 the template of public statements, public apologies, because we know 0:11:28.022 --> 0:11:30.822 that in a vacuum people will make stuff up, right, 0:11:30.902 --> 0:11:32.662 so you've got to you know that the first rule 0:11:32.702 --> 0:11:34.422 of crisis pr is that you've got to try and 0:11:34.422 --> 0:11:38.262 take control of the situation, to try and corterize the wound. 0:11:39.222 --> 0:11:43.462 And what he said about a private situation became public 0:11:43.742 --> 0:11:47.742 that way and taking time to think and learn and reflect. 0:11:48.262 --> 0:11:50.982 All of that was like tick tick tick tick, but 0:11:51.022 --> 0:11:51.622 then it was fake. 0:11:51.902 --> 0:11:54.502 It also reminded us. I think of how if any 0:11:54.542 --> 0:11:58.222 of us were to go viral in an hour, what 0:11:58.342 --> 0:12:02.462 can be found from LinkedIn profiles from the dig online 0:12:02.622 --> 0:12:05.302 what they were able to find all of his family. 0:12:05.462 --> 0:12:09.182 His wife had to, you know, go super private in 0:12:09.262 --> 0:12:10.902 order to not have their detail shared. 0:12:11.022 --> 0:12:14.862 She took down her surname from her profile. Then she 0:12:14.902 --> 0:12:18.142 deleted family photos. Because we've got our journalistic hats on. 0:12:18.222 --> 0:12:20.422 The first place, this is the biggest story in the world. 0:12:20.702 --> 0:12:23.782 The first place you go is what's on Instagram. Yeah, 0:12:23.822 --> 0:12:25.982 because that's publicly usable, right. 0:12:25.982 --> 0:12:29.742 But how ridiculous this is the biggest story in the world. Yeah, 0:12:29.862 --> 0:12:34.462 and we'll get to why that executives. Yeah, cheating at 0:12:34.462 --> 0:12:35.582 a Coldplay concert? 0:12:35.782 --> 0:12:38.742 Why do you think? Because as an example of that, Jesse, 0:12:39.102 --> 0:12:41.862 I was on Reddit yesterday and I was doing a 0:12:41.902 --> 0:12:44.142 search because you're right. By last night it became really 0:12:44.182 --> 0:12:46.742 confusing about what was real and what was real. And 0:12:46.982 --> 0:12:50.542 I follow lots of different threads on Reddit. And what 0:12:50.662 --> 0:12:52.662 was interesting about why this was such a huge story 0:12:52.822 --> 0:12:55.302 is that the tech threads were about it, the work 0:12:55.342 --> 0:12:57.782 threads were about it, the gossip threads were about it, 0:12:58.062 --> 0:13:01.702 the news threads were about it. Like the ven diagram 0:13:01.902 --> 0:13:03.302 of all the different places at time. 0:13:03.342 --> 0:13:07.782 The reason that happened, I reckon, is because the Internet 0:13:07.902 --> 0:13:10.622 is so divided and so contented, amptuous, and we are 0:13:11.182 --> 0:13:13.662 constantly at each other, probably in the last few years 0:13:13.662 --> 0:13:17.342 more than ever before. And for the last four days, 0:13:17.462 --> 0:13:20.142 the internet has had a common enemy. We have all 0:13:20.182 --> 0:13:23.062 been united and even the means I don't know find 0:13:23.062 --> 0:13:23.662 that's true. 0:13:23.702 --> 0:13:26.142 Do you think we have a common enemy? I don't see. 0:13:26.142 --> 0:13:28.622 Well, everyone almost looked at it. It was like everyone's 0:13:28.702 --> 0:13:31.462 laugh immediately was like sucked in, You're having an affair. 0:13:31.822 --> 0:13:33.862 And isn't that calma like. 0:13:33.822 --> 0:13:34.542 Real shaden for it? 0:13:35.142 --> 0:13:38.142 Yes, exactly for women whose husbands have cheated on them 0:13:38.182 --> 0:13:40.662 and they have found out but humiliated. There's no question 0:13:40.782 --> 0:13:45.901 that he in particular was an instant villain. But unfortunately 0:13:45.942 --> 0:13:48.342 what has happened, which is always what happens, is that then, 0:13:48.462 --> 0:13:51.222 as you've said, you know, his wife gets her privacy 0:13:51.222 --> 0:13:54.502 horrifically invaded. Her picture is all over the internet. Here 0:13:54.542 --> 0:13:57.142 are five things you didn't know about the CEO's wife, 0:13:57.222 --> 0:13:59.862 you know, and then the woman in question also obviously 0:14:00.022 --> 0:14:02.102 the twenty five things you didn't know about her, and 0:14:02.462 --> 0:14:05.902 before you know it, the shit really is smeared everywhere 0:14:06.102 --> 0:14:09.502 all over everybody involved. So if it started with an 0:14:09.662 --> 0:14:13.502 almost like oh, this is quite satisfying watching this powerful 0:14:13.862 --> 0:14:16.102 man being sort of humiliated. 0:14:16.182 --> 0:14:18.582 That isn't really what happened. 0:14:18.222 --> 0:14:22.662 And the dig then happened. We're recording this on you know, 0:14:22.822 --> 0:14:26.222 Monday morning. He has made no statement yet, but his 0:14:26.342 --> 0:14:29.062 salary has since been revealed as being in the ballpark 0:14:29.102 --> 0:14:31.662 of about a million Australian dollars a year, and a 0:14:31.742 --> 0:14:35.302 LinkedIn post that relevant. Well, I think that it adds 0:14:35.342 --> 0:14:38.262 to the idea that this is an entitled. 0:14:38.022 --> 0:14:38.702 One hundred percent. 0:14:38.902 --> 0:14:41.182 I think if he was a teacher and she was 0:14:41.222 --> 0:14:43.222 a nurse, this story is not as good. 0:14:43.422 --> 0:14:46.342 Yeah, no question, because then there's also this thing of like, 0:14:47.142 --> 0:14:49.902 if he's having an affair with someone at work, what 0:14:50.022 --> 0:14:53.662 are the power dynamics there? That's interesting. Then a post 0:14:53.702 --> 0:14:56.982 on LinkedIn by the editor in chief of Forbes Australia 0:14:57.382 --> 0:15:00.382 was about how there's barely any gender diversity. It looks 0:15:00.422 --> 0:15:02.262 like she might be the only one kind of in 0:15:02.302 --> 0:15:06.022 the higher in the leadership teams that's a female. 0:15:06.102 --> 0:15:08.622 Don't you think it's become I mean in the age 0:15:08.662 --> 0:15:11.262 of the hot take, where everybody needs to have a 0:15:11.302 --> 0:15:14.342 hot take to get engagement, to get traffic. I mean, look, 0:15:14.342 --> 0:15:18.502 we're talking about it today, right but everybody then projecting 0:15:18.942 --> 0:15:22.822 their lens onto it. So is it about diversity in 0:15:22.822 --> 0:15:25.822 the leadership team? Is it about the cheated wife? Is 0:15:25.822 --> 0:15:28.822 it about public spaces and what's private? Is it about AI? 0:15:28.982 --> 0:15:31.422 Now all the pieces are running out about AI and 0:15:31.462 --> 0:15:33.622 what's so hard? You know that thing about lives make 0:15:33.662 --> 0:15:35.582 their way around the world three times before the truth 0:15:35.622 --> 0:15:38.062 can do up at shoes. We were talking in our 0:15:38.102 --> 0:15:40.542 slack journal last night, and a lot of us were 0:15:40.582 --> 0:15:42.862 at very different parts of the story. Like some of 0:15:42.942 --> 0:15:45.262 us really believed that the other woman in the video 0:15:45.622 --> 0:15:48.582 was their head of HR and that she'd recently been promoted, 0:15:48.702 --> 0:15:51.222 and other people knew that wasn't true. And then some 0:15:51.262 --> 0:15:54.382 of us thought his daughter's on TikTok, and others knew 0:15:54.382 --> 0:15:57.782 that it wasn't true. So most people got little bits 0:15:57.822 --> 0:15:58.422 of the story. 0:15:58.542 --> 0:16:01.902 And I think most people are just at the memes, right, 0:16:02.022 --> 0:16:04.422 Like most people are just consuming this as a series 0:16:04.502 --> 0:16:09.022 of funny memes and they see as it is, here 0:16:09.102 --> 0:16:12.422 is this kind of ideologue that represents the Master of 0:16:12.462 --> 0:16:15.782 the universe, a particular type of man, as we said, 0:16:15.862 --> 0:16:18.222 which maybe he is that. 0:16:18.702 --> 0:16:20.542 But it also maybe he isn't. 0:16:20.462 --> 0:16:26.262 Yeah exactly, And facing the wrath of the potentially tens 0:16:26.262 --> 0:16:28.462 of millions of women who have either experienced this or 0:16:28.502 --> 0:16:31.902 seen it happen, who then have somewhere to project their 0:16:31.942 --> 0:16:35.582 fury and their anger at the dishonesty of some men. 0:16:36.022 --> 0:16:38.062 That irks me, like, I'm starting to feel a bit 0:16:38.102 --> 0:16:40.782 sick about this whole thing. And then I saw Grace Springer, 0:16:40.822 --> 0:16:43.062 the woman who shared the video, right, and she's been 0:16:43.062 --> 0:16:46.382 interviewed and everything. Her most recent or one of her 0:16:46.422 --> 0:16:50.542 most recent Instagram stories was, you're so welcome for today's entertainment. 0:16:50.622 --> 0:16:53.262 Want to show your gratitude? Help me who is just 0:16:53.302 --> 0:16:55.982 a girl payoff eighty thousand dollars in student lines? And 0:16:56.022 --> 0:16:57.422 now she's got a link and you can go and 0:16:57.422 --> 0:17:00.062 help her pay off their student lins. So everyone who 0:17:00.182 --> 0:17:03.222 can is capitalizing off this viral moment. 0:17:03.662 --> 0:17:05.662 It's just a desperate need for distraction. 0:17:05.982 --> 0:17:06.182 Right. 0:17:07.182 --> 0:17:08.542 The world is a scary place. 0:17:08.581 --> 0:17:11.621 We could spend forty eight hours obsessing over this story 0:17:11.662 --> 0:17:13.861 and making celebrities out of all of the people in 0:17:13.942 --> 0:17:16.821 it for five minutes, and no one will remember this 0:17:17.302 --> 0:17:20.262 in twenty four hours, and those people's lives are ruined. 0:17:20.341 --> 0:17:22.061 Is it their fault or not? Is a bit of 0:17:22.101 --> 0:17:25.741 a matter of opinion. But there's interesting. 0:17:25.542 --> 0:17:28.342 On that for one second, because I'm interested in the 0:17:28.381 --> 0:17:31.821 idea of the punishment in the crime, right, So I 0:17:31.861 --> 0:17:34.821 think we can all agree that what they did was 0:17:34.861 --> 0:17:35.302 not good. 0:17:36.302 --> 0:17:37.341 It doesn't appear to be good. 0:17:38.262 --> 0:17:40.862 He and his wife were separated and have been operated 0:17:40.901 --> 0:17:43.662 for a long time. She has not spoken on the record, dography, 0:17:43.742 --> 0:17:45.821 We have no idea, so a lot of assumptions are 0:17:45.861 --> 0:17:46.262 being made. 0:17:46.381 --> 0:17:49.462 Right, So if we all agree cheating is not good, 0:17:49.621 --> 0:17:53.381 if that's in fact what happened, but what should the 0:17:53.422 --> 0:17:56.222 punishment for that be? Should it be that you your 0:17:56.262 --> 0:17:59.302 reputation is forever destroyed, that the entire world is united 0:17:59.302 --> 0:18:01.782 in laughing at you, that you lose your career, that 0:18:01.821 --> 0:18:06.221 you lose your means to feed your family, that you're utterly, utterly, 0:18:06.302 --> 0:18:07.621 abjectly humiliated. 0:18:08.581 --> 0:18:12.661 Is that totally like that's disproportionate. Yeah, because the affair, 0:18:13.101 --> 0:18:16.262 whether the affair goes against company policy is even a question, 0:18:16.581 --> 0:18:18.861 right because it's like, if that had just been discovered, 0:18:19.581 --> 0:18:21.661 would that have been an issue or a conflict of interest? 0:18:21.982 --> 0:18:24.862 But the kiss cam element, what I like to think 0:18:24.901 --> 0:18:28.261 about is what if they just kissed, and they just kissed, 0:18:28.702 --> 0:18:29.542 and this would never. 0:18:29.422 --> 0:18:31.141 Have gone viral. That's true, it wouldn't have got anything. 0:18:31.182 --> 0:18:33.942 It was the reaction, which I completely understand why they 0:18:33.942 --> 0:18:36.421 reacted like that, but it was that that kind of 0:18:36.422 --> 0:18:39.022 suggested some guilt. I understand why Chris Martin kind of went. 0:18:38.942 --> 0:18:41.462 Oh, if he hadn't have said what he said, it 0:18:41.502 --> 0:18:43.421 probably which is I'm not saying we should be blaming 0:18:43.502 --> 0:18:45.382 Chris Martin. Yeah, but like if he hadn't have said 0:18:45.381 --> 0:18:47.461 what he said about either you're cheating or you're just 0:18:47.542 --> 0:18:51.341 very shy, then Grace the young woman posted this probably 0:18:51.341 --> 0:18:52.542 wouldn't have thought twice about it. 0:18:52.621 --> 0:18:53.941 No one would have thought twice about it. 0:18:53.982 --> 0:18:58.061 You're right, their guilty reaction to it started the story 0:18:58.661 --> 0:19:01.022 in point about what they deserve for that. Me, you're 0:19:01.061 --> 0:19:04.462 so right to be honest. I mean, again, this is assumption, 0:19:04.581 --> 0:19:06.501 just as much as it's an assumption to pretend we 0:19:06.502 --> 0:19:08.381