WEBVTT - Julie Bishop Can Say Whatever She Wants Now 0:00:00.040 --> 0:00:00.360 Yeah, 0:00:01.840 --> 0:00:05.620 judge me on what I do. I don't label myself 0:00:05.630 --> 0:00:08.410 a lot of things, but it doesn't mean that I'm 0:00:08.410 --> 0:00:10.990 how unhappy or uncomfortable if other people say, Oh, Julie 0:00:10.990 --> 0:00:15.460 is a feminist because she supports equal opportunity and gender equality. 0:00:15.470 --> 0:00:18.190 What about? Look at what I do as opposed to 0:00:18.190 --> 0:00:20.160 how I self describe 0:00:20.340 --> 0:00:23.209 from Mamma Mia, I'm Mia Freedman and you're listening to 0:00:23.210 --> 0:00:23.959 no filter 0:00:24.040 --> 0:00:26.159 counted conversations that count. 0:00:27.040 --> 0:00:30.150 Julie Bishop hasn't been a private citizen for 20 years, 0:00:30.180 --> 0:00:32.460 but a few hours after this interview was recorded, 0:00:32.840 --> 0:00:35.450 that changed because an election was called 0:00:36.040 --> 0:00:38.699 as the member for curtain. She had been the deputy 0:00:38.700 --> 0:00:41.440 leader of the Liberal Party for 11 years under three 0:00:41.440 --> 0:00:44.340 different leaders, and for the past few years she'd been 0:00:44.340 --> 0:00:46.150 the foreign minister of Australia. 0:00:46.540 --> 0:00:48.420 She was the first woman to serve in either of 0:00:48.420 --> 0:00:51.519 those roles, and people on all sides pretty much agree 0:00:51.530 --> 0:00:52.960 that she did a kick ass job. 0:00:53.440 --> 0:00:57.720 There was terrorist attacks, Bali executions, the shooting down of 0:00:57.720 --> 0:01:02.670 Malaysian Airlines flight MH 17, an Ebola outbreak and, of course, 0:01:02.680 --> 0:01:06.690 a few rounds of prime ministerial musical chairs. Isn't that 0:01:06.690 --> 0:01:07.450 a fun game? 0:01:08.040 --> 0:01:10.300 She is a woman who loves fashion as much as politics. 0:01:10.300 --> 0:01:13.160 And she sees no problem when the two things collide. 0:01:13.640 --> 0:01:15.970 Like that time, she wore a pair of tailored shorts 0:01:15.980 --> 0:01:18.759 with a matching jacket to meet with the mayor of London. 0:01:19.340 --> 0:01:21.979 Well, the killer Red Heels with sparkles she wore on 0:01:21.980 --> 0:01:23.950 the day she announced she would be stepping down as 0:01:23.950 --> 0:01:26.560 foreign minister and moving to the back bench, 0:01:27.340 --> 0:01:30.330 you might remember that difficult decision came after a particularly 0:01:30.330 --> 0:01:33.740 bruising episode of the Parliament House reality show, where the 0:01:33.740 --> 0:01:37.149 Liberal Party decided to play Knife the leader yet again. 0:01:37.740 --> 0:01:40.330 When Malcolm Turnbull stood down, Julie put up her hand 0:01:40.330 --> 0:01:44.160 to run for PM along with Scott Morrison and Peter Dutton. 0:01:44.170 --> 0:01:47.179 But she was knocked out fairly brutally in the first 0:01:47.180 --> 0:01:50.930 round as a result of some pretty disappointing backroom deals 0:01:50.940 --> 0:01:53.570 that we all learned about via a leaked group chat 0:01:53.580 --> 0:01:55.710 between many of her fellow MPs. 0:01:56.240 --> 0:01:58.550 It was messy and disloyal 0:01:58.940 --> 0:02:02.760 and a deeply anti climactic end to a glittering career 0:02:02.760 --> 0:02:03.610 in politics. 0:02:04.140 --> 0:02:06.560 Not that Julie ever said that publicly. None of it. 0:02:06.940 --> 0:02:09.650 She's worked through some of Australia's ugliest moments, both in 0:02:09.650 --> 0:02:13.579 Canberra and around the world, with her signature class and style. 0:02:13.620 --> 0:02:17.160 She's always always toed the party line, 0:02:17.639 --> 0:02:18.149 but now 0:02:18.639 --> 0:02:19.560 she doesn't have to. 0:02:19.940 --> 0:02:22.520 Now she can say whatever she wants. However she wants 0:02:22.520 --> 0:02:24.049 to hear is Julie Bishop 0:02:24.440 --> 0:02:27.190 Julie. We're both sitting here in our white shirts. We're 0:02:27.190 --> 0:02:29.620 all sitting here. Actually, everyone in the studio is wearing 0:02:29.620 --> 0:02:32.230 a white shirt. What's the significance 0:02:32.240 --> 0:02:35.260 today? We launched the 2019 0:02:35.740 --> 0:02:40.270 white shirt campaign and which we donate 100% of the 0:02:40.270 --> 0:02:44.139 gross proceeds of the sale of white shirts to ovarian 0:02:44.139 --> 0:02:47.350 cancer Research and the foundation set up to 0:02:48.040 --> 0:02:52.460 develop an early stage detection test because there isn't one 0:02:52.460 --> 0:02:57.160 for ovarian cancer because there's no early symptoms, no warning. 0:02:57.639 --> 0:03:01.280 Most women are diagnosed at advanced stages, and so the 0:03:01.280 --> 0:03:03.520 death rate is high compared with other cancers. 0:03:03.530 --> 0:03:06.049 Compared to, say, when you first came into Parliament in 0:03:06.050 --> 0:03:11.010 1998 how much more understanding and awareness around women's health 0:03:11.010 --> 0:03:13.310 issues Do you think there is in Canberra 0:03:13.310 --> 0:03:17.100 these days so much more? It's a dramatic difference, 0:03:17.440 --> 0:03:20.600 and it's taken some rather tragic events, like the death 0:03:20.600 --> 0:03:23.650 of Senator Jeannie Ferris. She died of ovarian cancer 0:03:24.040 --> 0:03:27.150 to really focus people's attention on it. That's why it's 0:03:27.150 --> 0:03:29.950 so important to have more women in Parliament, more women 0:03:29.950 --> 0:03:33.970 in the decision making forums around the world because we 0:03:33.970 --> 0:03:37.400 do have a different experience, a different perspective. And issues 0:03:37.400 --> 0:03:38.650 like women's health 0:03:39.340 --> 0:03:42.450 are raised by women. Men, of course, understand. But in 0:03:42.450 --> 0:03:43.750 terms of a priority, 0:03:44.240 --> 0:03:47.410 women's health has tended to be a secondary issue. Now 0:03:47.420 --> 0:03:50.010 it's a primary issue. It's a priority, and I was 0:03:50.010 --> 0:03:52.940 delighted to see the government provide more money. In fact, 0:03:52.950 --> 0:03:55.470 I think since we came to office, about 33 million 0:03:55.480 --> 0:03:59.720 had been dedicated to ovarian cancer research. And that's why 0:03:59.720 --> 0:04:02.390 I'm so keen to do more. The government can't do 0:04:02.390 --> 0:04:02.860 it all. 0:04:02.940 --> 0:04:04.760 The community also has to 0:04:05.040 --> 0:04:08.310 dig in and support women who have this cancer. 0:04:08.520 --> 0:04:11.060 What's life like on the outside? Now 0:04:11.640 --> 0:04:13.050 I noticed you said, Way 0:04:13.640 --> 0:04:16.550 is that Is that going to take a while to change? 0:04:16.560 --> 0:04:18.570 I guess it will. I've been in politics for 20 0:04:18.570 --> 0:04:20.839 years now, so I've been saying we for a very 0:04:20.839 --> 0:04:23.260 long time, sort of like the royal family we 0:04:23.640 --> 0:04:26.060 But I had my last day in Parliament, 0:04:26.440 --> 0:04:32.560 and it was a mix of emotions, sadness, pride, relief 0:04:33.040 --> 0:04:36.560 and excitement about what may lie ahead. So I had 0:04:36.560 --> 0:04:39.419 a 20 year legal career, a 20 year political career. 0:04:39.420 --> 0:04:42.460 Now I'm looking for another 20 year career in a 0:04:42.470 --> 0:04:43.960 whole range of different areas. 0:04:44.440 --> 0:04:46.470 You mentioned a lot of emotions that you had on 0:04:46.470 --> 0:04:49.030 that last day, and I watched your speech and I 0:04:49.029 --> 0:04:50.929 watched it again today before you came in. 0:04:50.940 --> 0:04:53.460 It has been an immense honor 0:04:53.839 --> 0:04:57.050 to be the longest serving member for Curtain 0:04:57.839 --> 0:05:01.460 and also to be the deputy leader of the Liberal Party, 0:05:01.839 --> 0:05:05.690 the first female to hold the role for 11 years, 0:05:05.700 --> 0:05:08.650 over half my entire political career. 0:05:09.640 --> 0:05:11.859 And I'm also proud of the fact that I am 0:05:11.860 --> 0:05:15.740 the first woman to contest the leadership ballot of the 0:05:15.740 --> 0:05:18.740 Liberal Party in its 75 year history. 0:05:18.830 --> 0:05:19.260 And 0:05:20.040 --> 0:05:21.060 I felt better 0:05:22.240 --> 0:05:25.750 when I watched you. You would never say that because 0:05:25.750 --> 0:05:29.080 you're far too classy. But I watched that and I 0:05:29.080 --> 0:05:31.570 felt angry, and I felt resentful. And I felt beat 0:05:31.570 --> 0:05:32.159 up that 0:05:33.540 --> 0:05:38.080 you are such an extraordinary woman, and you would have 0:05:38.080 --> 0:05:41.090 made such an extraordinary prime minister and you never got 0:05:41.089 --> 0:05:41.849 that chance. 0:05:42.740 --> 0:05:47.700 My opportunity came in unexpected circumstances last year. I would 0:05:47.700 --> 0:05:51.760 never have challenged a leader from the position as deputy 0:05:52.140 --> 0:05:55.410 and so I served under a number of leaders. But 0:05:55.410 --> 0:05:55.860 when 0:05:56.540 --> 0:06:00.180 circumstances changed, to the extent that Malcolm Turnbull wasn't going 0:06:00.180 --> 0:06:00.950 to run again 0:06:01.540 --> 0:06:04.810 and there were two candidates in Peter Dutton and Scott Morrison, 0:06:04.820 --> 0:06:07.830 I felt a real responsibility to put my name forward. 0:06:07.830 --> 0:06:11.320 So the party room had other options, and I've been 0:06:11.320 --> 0:06:13.740 the deputy for 11 years, and I've been foreign minister 0:06:13.740 --> 0:06:16.770 for five years. I've been a Cabinet minister under John 0:06:16.770 --> 0:06:18.760 Howard under Tony Abbott under 0:06:19.140 --> 0:06:22.030 Malcolm Turnbull. So I thought I had the experience. And obviously, 0:06:22.029 --> 0:06:23.589 you don't put your name forward if you think you're 0:06:23.589 --> 0:06:25.830 going to lose. Nor do you put your name forward 0:06:25.830 --> 0:06:27.560 if you think you'd lose the election. 0:06:27.940 --> 0:06:28.750 So 0:06:29.339 --> 0:06:30.260 I 0:06:30.940 --> 0:06:31.660 put my hand up 0:06:32.240 --> 0:06:36.659 the party room obviously saw otherwise, and I respect that. 0:06:36.670 --> 0:06:38.779 I've been a member of that party room for 20 years, 0:06:38.779 --> 0:06:42.260 so you have to respect the views of your colleagues. 0:06:42.940 --> 0:06:44.050 But I thought that 0:06:44.440 --> 0:06:47.940 that then made me reassess how much longer I wanted 0:06:47.940 --> 0:06:48.920 to be in politics. 0:06:49.339 --> 0:06:52.099 And so I didn't cause a by election. I stayed. 0:06:52.100 --> 0:06:53.659 I went on to the back bench and let the 0:06:53.660 --> 0:06:55.060 new team get on with 0:06:55.540 --> 0:06:56.650 being the new government. 0:06:57.240 --> 0:06:59.979 And then over that period of time, I thought long 0:06:59.980 --> 0:07:01.659 and hard about what I wanted to do. 0:07:02.240 --> 0:07:04.430 And then I met a number of people who said 0:07:04.430 --> 0:07:06.320 that if I were not standing at the next election, 0:07:06.320 --> 0:07:08.770 they would run for the seat of curtain. And I thought, 0:07:08.779 --> 0:07:11.570 Now is the time to leave. So it's a time 0:07:11.570 --> 0:07:13.550 of my choosing on my terms, 0:07:13.940 --> 0:07:17.710 and there's no point in feeling bitter. You just have 0:07:17.710 --> 0:07:20.210 to be positive about the future. And so I don't 0:07:20.210 --> 0:07:23.340 look back. I don't do regrets. I don't do recrimination. 0:07:23.350 --> 0:07:26.270 I just say, Okay, now it's time for the next 0:07:26.270 --> 0:07:26.750 chapter 0:07:27.240 --> 0:07:30.550 you've been through. You've been in Parliament through I think 0:07:30.550 --> 0:07:34.540 it's five leadership changes or changes of prime minister in 0:07:34.540 --> 0:07:37.190 the system. Yes, there's so many. I've spoken to a 0:07:37.190 --> 0:07:40.280 lot of journalists about what that time is like around 0:07:40.280 --> 0:07:45.370 a leadership change and spills. What's it like when you're inside? 0:07:45.370 --> 0:07:47.430 What's it like when it's happening to people who are 0:07:47.430 --> 0:07:50.160 your colleagues and your friends and you're involved? 0:07:50.540 --> 0:07:50.740 Yeah, 0:07:51.140 --> 0:07:55.690 I witnessed it first on the Labour side when Kevin 0:07:56.340 --> 0:08:00.260 was challenged by Julia Gillard, and it was 0:08:00.640 --> 0:08:05.050 morbidly fascinating to watch a party tear itself apart. 0:08:05.440 --> 0:08:07.520 I did never think it would happen to us because 0:08:07.520 --> 0:08:09.700 I assume that I've done it again us, 0:08:10.940 --> 0:08:14.220 because I assume that it took such a toll on 0:08:14.220 --> 0:08:15.160 the Labour Party. 0:08:15.640 --> 0:08:18.880 But then they changed again. They got rid of Julia 0:08:18.880 --> 0:08:22.700 Gillard and installed Kevin, so it became the norm. It 0:08:22.700 --> 0:08:23.760 set a benchmark 0:08:24.240 --> 0:08:27.920 and very low benchmark indeed. And then 0:08:28.640 --> 0:08:31.810 I served under Tony Abbott. He was our leader into 0:08:31.810 --> 0:08:33.350 the 2000 and 13 0:08:33.740 --> 0:08:34.959 election that we won. 0:08:35.740 --> 0:08:38.439 And then over time I saw that he was losing 0:08:38.450 --> 0:08:40.150 the support of the party room 0:08:40.640 --> 0:08:44.140 and in our political system in the Liberal Party, the 0:08:44.140 --> 0:08:46.359 leader is chosen by the party room, 0:08:46.740 --> 0:08:50.770 and that can be frustrating for the wider public because 0:08:50.780 --> 0:08:52.050 they say, Well, I voted 0:08:52.840 --> 0:08:55.479 in the Liberal Party because I wanted to see X 0:08:55.480 --> 0:08:57.250 y Z as the prime minister, 0:08:57.640 --> 0:08:59.370 and then the party room says, Well, we don't want 0:08:59.370 --> 0:09:01.620 to work with this person anymore and without going to 0:09:01.620 --> 0:09:03.360 an election will change leaders 0:09:03.940 --> 0:09:08.820 that does cause instability. Being on the inside. It's a 0:09:08.830 --> 0:09:10.959 very emotional time 0:09:11.640 --> 0:09:16.280 because people are pitted against each other. It's very adversarial. 0:09:16.280 --> 0:09:17.160 Competitive 0:09:17.640 --> 0:09:19.900 things are said. That shouldn't be said. Things are done 0:09:19.900 --> 0:09:23.579 that shouldn't be done. So there's a lot of turmoil involved, 0:09:23.590 --> 0:09:27.700 which is why I recommend that parties give up changing 0:09:27.700 --> 0:09:31.460 leaders between elections. Unless there's a very valid, 0:09:32.440 --> 0:09:34.450 cogent, coherent reason to do so. 0:09:35.660 --> 0:09:38.640 Some very close relationships must be formed. You know, when 0:09:38.640 --> 0:09:40.150 you're in a party for 20 years, 0:09:40.840 --> 0:09:45.809 how do people process the betrayal that comes around? These 0:09:45.809 --> 0:09:48.860 leadership changes and spills because it's like you got to 0:09:48.860 --> 0:09:50.550 pick a side and it's like I thought you were 0:09:50.550 --> 0:09:52.630 with me and maybe you said you were with me, 0:09:52.630 --> 0:09:53.949 but then you weren't with me. 0:09:54.640 --> 0:09:56.880 There was some text messages and WhatsApp Group that you 0:09:56.880 --> 0:09:59.970 found out about afterwards that must have been absolutely devastating 0:09:59.980 --> 0:10:01.559 on a bunch of levels. 0:10:01.940 --> 0:10:05.170 Does it make you question who really, ever was your 0:10:05.170 --> 0:10:06.500 friend or colleague? 0:10:06.510 --> 0:10:09.050 Or sadly, Politics has a name for that, 0:10:09.440 --> 0:10:14.750 for betrayal, for conflict between people who 0:10:15.840 --> 0:10:18.410 others presumed with colleagues or, indeed, they may well have 0:10:18.410 --> 0:10:20.970 presumed it. Was it Paul Keating. That said, If you 0:10:20.970 --> 0:10:24.380 want a friend in politics by a dog, there's a 0:10:24.380 --> 0:10:26.589 certain amount of truth in that, but I've also made 0:10:26.590 --> 0:10:29.250 friends in politics that I suspect will be friends for life. 0:10:29.840 --> 0:10:31.250 It's difficult 0:10:32.340 --> 0:10:36.990 and it takes you some time to understand that this 0:10:36.990 --> 0:10:38.360 is the way it's played. 0:10:39.040 --> 0:10:42.340 But of course you can still be hurt and frustrated 0:10:42.340 --> 0:10:45.350 and angry. But there's no point, because that's the way 0:10:45.350 --> 0:10:46.150 it is. And 0:10:46.540 --> 0:10:47.459 politics 0:10:47.840 --> 0:10:50.150 in Australia has been a system 0:10:50.840 --> 0:10:51.260 built 0:10:51.740 --> 0:10:56.960 by men because for the last 100 years since federation, 0:10:57.940 --> 0:11:00.160 the majority of parliamentarians have been 0:11:00.540 --> 0:11:04.679 male and so it's very adversarial and it reflects the 0:11:04.679 --> 0:11:07.450 way men see the world. It's only in more recent 0:11:07.450 --> 0:11:10.870 years that women have become involved in politics, so the 0:11:10.870 --> 0:11:12.960 culture is very male, 0:11:13.540 --> 0:11:15.060 and I think that that has 0:11:15.540 --> 0:11:16.959 a fair amount to do with it. 0:11:16.970 --> 0:11:19.929 You said. You've been in cabinets where there are a 0:11:19.929 --> 0:11:22.280 number of women and when you've been the only woman, 0:11:22.290 --> 0:11:24.660 and you said that you've noticed that the behavior of 0:11:24.660 --> 0:11:25.950 the Cabinet is very different. 0:11:26.540 --> 0:11:28.160 Can you explain the differences 0:11:28.740 --> 0:11:30.570 well, I think a number of women would relate to 0:11:30.570 --> 0:11:32.309 this if they have been the only woman in a 0:11:32.309 --> 0:11:35.960 boardroom or in a meeting, and I was in cabinet. 0:11:36.340 --> 0:11:39.110 If you're the only female voice in a room of, say, 0:11:39.120 --> 0:11:40.750 2030 males. 0:11:41.140 --> 0:11:42.960 They tend not to hear you. 0:11:43.440 --> 0:11:45.290 I called it gender deafness, 0:11:45.940 --> 0:11:49.820 and I don't know what it is, but you struggled 0:11:49.820 --> 0:11:52.819 to be heard, even if what you're saying is original 0:11:52.830 --> 0:11:55.150 or different or controversial, 0:11:55.540 --> 0:11:56.760 outrageous. Even 0:11:57.340 --> 0:11:58.660 there seems to be a 0:11:59.040 --> 0:12:01.329 glossing over and they move on to the next opinion. 0:12:01.330 --> 0:12:03.829 And then somebody can say precisely what you said 0:12:04.340 --> 0:12:06.720 and the men were. So yeah, that's a good idea. 0:12:06.720 --> 0:12:09.260 Let's go with X Y Z view. 0:12:10.140 --> 0:12:13.570 And yet, when other women are around the room, women 0:12:13.570 --> 0:12:17.530 tend to. Most women tend to support the other woman, saying, 0:12:17.540 --> 0:12:20.160 Hang on, Did you just hear what she said 0:12:20.540 --> 0:12:21.950 and bring attention to it? 0:12:22.440 --> 0:12:23.960 I also think that 0:12:24.540 --> 0:12:26.660 women's perspectives are so important 0:12:27.540 --> 0:12:30.260 and you have to have more women around these 0:12:30.640 --> 0:12:33.660 boardroom tables and cabinet tables and decision making forums. 0:12:34.040 --> 0:12:37.050 They bring a different perspective, a different view, a different 0:12:37.050 --> 0:12:37.679 experience 0:12:38.140 --> 0:12:43.970 and without over generalizing. Women do have different leadership style 0:12:43.980 --> 0:12:46.260 to men they do. We're much more 0:12:46.740 --> 0:12:50.740 transformational were much more focused on the impact on the 0:12:50.740 --> 0:12:52.030 individual we build. What do 0:12:52.030 --> 0:12:53.460 you mean by transformational? 0:12:53.490 --> 0:12:58.559 Well, we build teams by working with individuals whereas men 0:12:59.240 --> 0:13:03.130 a much more transactional the teams put together. They hold 0:13:03.130 --> 0:13:04.160 the team to account 0:13:04.640 --> 0:13:08.410 the far less empathetic to the individual needs, whereas women 0:13:08.410 --> 0:13:09.650 focused very much on 0:13:10.140 --> 0:13:12.990 the empathy behind what's happening. 0:13:12.990 --> 0:13:14.260 Emotional intelligence, 0:13:14.270 --> 0:13:16.580 all of the situation. And I've seen it, not just 0:13:16.580 --> 0:13:19.349 in politics. I've seen it in many scenarios. I was 0:13:19.840 --> 0:13:23.390 partner in a major law firm for many years, and 0:13:23.400 --> 0:13:26.230 at one point I was the only female in the 0:13:26.240 --> 0:13:27.250 partnership meetings. 0:13:27.740 --> 0:13:31.030 And women do bring a different perspective now. It's not 0:13:31.030 --> 0:13:33.650 one or the other. You need both. They complement each other. 0:13:34.040 --> 0:13:37.760 And that's why I'm speaking about encouraging more women to 0:13:37.760 --> 0:13:40.770 come into Parliament. The processes will be different. The outcomes 0:13:40.770 --> 0:13:44.559 will be better. Corporate. See this now? It's not just 0:13:45.040 --> 0:13:48.550 the right thing to do. It's a smart thing to do. 0:13:48.940 --> 0:13:51.199 Corporations can see that if you have more women in 0:13:51.210 --> 0:13:54.270 decision making positions, your bottom line is going to be 0:13:54.270 --> 0:13:54.640 better 0:13:54.650 --> 0:13:57.830 because smart business isn't it, absolutely. And it can also 0:13:57.830 --> 0:14:01.080 be transformational for society when it comes to government. You know, 0:14:01.080 --> 0:14:04.309 we were just talking about $30 million going to endometriosis 0:14:04.309 --> 0:14:05.459 and ovarian cancer. 0:14:06.140 --> 0:14:09.830 You would ask I imagine 100 men and probably 90 0:14:09.830 --> 0:14:12.099 of them wouldn't be able to even tell you anything 0:14:12.100 --> 0:14:15.170 about those two. Things probably wouldn't even know it. Endometriosis 0:14:15.170 --> 0:14:15.760 was 0:14:16.140 --> 0:14:20.710 exactly. And so you do need women around the table 0:14:20.710 --> 0:14:24.060 around the table to explain some of these issues and say, Well, actually, 0:14:24.060 --> 0:14:27.360 this is an issue that women feel strongly about. 0:14:27.840 --> 0:14:31.960 And unless a man has a very strong female in 0:14:31.960 --> 0:14:34.780 his life, he may well not know about it. So 0:14:34.790 --> 0:14:39.360 it's just common sense reflecting community concerns. And 50% of 0:14:39.360 --> 0:14:40.650 our population is female. 0:14:41.640 --> 0:14:45.660 44% of Labour Party MPs are women, 0:14:46.140 --> 0:14:49.260 18% of Liberal Party MPs are women. 0:14:50.140 --> 0:14:52.340 And yet quotas is a dirty word and all the 0:14:52.340 --> 0:14:54.490 men are there by merit. Of course, we know that 0:14:54.500 --> 0:14:58.240 you don't have to toe that line anymore. How do 0:14:58.240 --> 0:14:59.050 you really feel about 0:14:59.050 --> 0:15:02.030 that? I really feel that we do need targets that 0:15:02.030 --> 0:15:03.110 are taken seriously. 0:15:03.120 --> 0:15:05.030 What's the difference between target and quote? 0:15:05.030 --> 0:15:10.060 Unquote? It's mandatory, and labour don't actually adhere to a quota. 0:15:10.340 --> 0:15:12.560 They say they do, but they don't. I've seen 0:15:12.640 --> 0:15:15.790 when it's a woman's turn to be pre selected for 0:15:15.790 --> 0:15:19.010 a seat, but There is a former union boss who's 0:15:19.010 --> 0:15:22.680 looking for that seat and they'll take it so it's 0:15:22.690 --> 0:15:24.000 not actually 0:15:24.010 --> 0:15:25.950 targets give you a bit more wriggle room. It's like 0:15:25.950 --> 0:15:27.190 this is our intention. 0:15:27.200 --> 0:15:29.940 Don't hold us to it. But no, but targets taken 0:15:29.940 --> 0:15:31.660 seriously have a great 0:15:32.140 --> 0:15:35.560 effect. I've seen it. We did it in the Turnbull 0:15:35.560 --> 0:15:39.610 cabinet when we decided to make it a 50% target 0:15:39.620 --> 0:15:42.850 for all government board positions. And there are thousands of 0:15:42.850 --> 0:15:43.750 positions in 0:15:44.140 --> 0:15:47.680 statutory bodies and agencies and government councils that the federal 0:15:47.680 --> 0:15:48.510 government appoints. 0:15:48.940 --> 0:15:54.220 And we were at about maybe 40% or something, and 0:15:54.230 --> 0:15:57.830 we made a concerted effort. We set a target of 50% 0:15:57.840 --> 0:16:01.150 and just after I left Cabinet, we hit 50%. 0:16:01.540 --> 0:16:04.190 What it does is it makes people much more aware 0:16:04.200 --> 0:16:07.750 of the responsibility to find more women. 0:16:08.140 --> 0:16:10.120 And so if a Cabinet minister came in with four 0:16:10.120 --> 0:16:12.140 names for a position, and none of them are, women 0:16:12.140 --> 0:16:14.670 would say, Go away and find some women and it 0:16:14.680 --> 0:16:17.240 means they have to work harder. The women are there. 0:16:17.250 --> 0:16:20.180 It's not about competence or merit or qualifications. The women 0:16:20.190 --> 0:16:23.390 are there, they're willing, but you have to dig a 0:16:23.390 --> 0:16:25.560 little bit deeper and often ask, 0:16:25.740 --> 0:16:28.460 because women are very reluctant to put themselves forward. 0:16:28.540 --> 0:16:31.100 Very reluctant to say I'm up for this 0:16:31.540 --> 0:16:34.460 and so often I found, you know, I had to 0:16:34.460 --> 0:16:36.060 make a number of appointments. I would ring a woman 0:16:36.060 --> 0:16:37.250 and say, I love you to go on X y 0:16:37.250 --> 0:16:39.650 z board and they'd say, Oh, do you think I'm 0:16:39.650 --> 0:16:42.090 right for it? A man would never ask you that 0:16:42.100 --> 0:16:44.620 and say yes or no whether they want it or not. 0:16:44.630 --> 0:16:45.460 But women say 0:16:46.240 --> 0:16:48.740 a little bit concerned that they might not have the qualifications, 0:16:48.740 --> 0:16:51.619 they might not be up to the mark. So that's 0:16:51.620 --> 0:16:54.290 why it's important for other women to support women into 0:16:54.290 --> 0:16:58.060 these roles. So targets work the Liberal Party as a 0:16:58.060 --> 0:17:01.130 way to go. And I've been part of a new 0:17:01.130 --> 0:17:03.360 group in Western Australia called Emergent Women, 0:17:03.440 --> 0:17:06.930 where we have gone out and identify young women between 0:17:06.930 --> 0:17:08.859 about the ages of 25 40 0:17:09.240 --> 0:17:13.980 in business in community groups in the professions, and asked 0:17:13.980 --> 0:17:16.540 them to come along to a few events. They don't 0:17:16.540 --> 0:17:18.149 have to join the Liberal Party, just come along and 0:17:18.150 --> 0:17:18.859 be part of 0:17:19.440 --> 0:17:22.949 debates on policy issues on matters of concern to them. 0:17:23.440 --> 0:17:26.180 And we are building a pool of women so that 0:17:26.180 --> 0:17:29.000 when a pre selection comes up, you actually have a 0:17:29.000 --> 0:17:31.460 pool to draw from a pipeline of women who would 0:17:31.460 --> 0:17:34.889 be ready, mentored, hopefully into what it's like to be 0:17:34.890 --> 0:17:35.670 a politician. 0:17:36.040 --> 0:17:38.919 It must be a pretty hard ask, though, trying to 0:17:38.920 --> 0:17:41.990 convince women to come along and be part of the 0:17:41.990 --> 0:17:46.119 Liberal Party. Given the last year given we've seen Kelly 0:17:46.119 --> 0:17:49.430 Dwyer leave with ST Julia Banks claim that she was 0:17:49.430 --> 0:17:52.820 bullied and and a small is also that that she 0:17:52.830 --> 0:17:54.359 was subject to bullying. 0:17:55.140 --> 0:17:56.850 You were treated really shabbily, 0:17:57.340 --> 0:17:59.379 I believe and left. 0:18:00.440 --> 0:18:01.360 Why 0:18:01.940 --> 0:18:04.159 would women want to join a party that seems to 0:18:04.160 --> 0:18:07.030 have such, in some cases, open contempt for women? And 0:18:07.030 --> 0:18:09.330 that's certainly even at best does not seem to be 0:18:09.340 --> 0:18:13.859 a place where a woman could thrive in a political career. Well, 0:18:13.869 --> 0:18:17.050 I don't accept your characterization. I was the deputy leader 0:18:17.050 --> 0:18:17.859 of the party 0:18:18.040 --> 0:18:22.050 for 11 years, reelected time and time again by my colleagues, 0:18:22.050 --> 0:18:24.060 so they had faith in me as the deputy 0:18:24.340 --> 0:18:28.070 and I was appointed to my dream job, which was 0:18:28.080 --> 0:18:30.950 Minister for foreign affairs. I couldn't have been more honored 0:18:30.950 --> 0:18:31.659 and privileged 0:18:32.040 --> 0:18:35.490 in a role. And so from my point of view, 0:18:35.500 --> 0:18:38.360 women have achieved some great things in the Liberal Party. 0:18:38.369 --> 0:18:41.409 What we need to do is encourage young people to 0:18:41.410 --> 0:18:46.780 be interested in public office generally that men and women, 0:18:46.790 --> 0:18:49.050 because politicians tend to be, 0:18:49.540 --> 0:18:50.260 um, 0:18:50.840 --> 0:18:55.070 on the nose, condemned roundly for whatever they do, whether 0:18:55.070 --> 0:18:58.300 they're doing good things or bad things. And as a class, though, 0:18:58.310 --> 0:19:00.460 they are not highly regarded. And so 0:19:00.940 --> 0:19:03.629 it is one of the most important jobs in the country. 0:19:03.640 --> 0:19:07.869 You're a legislator. You're part of making the laws that 0:19:07.869 --> 0:19:12.110 affect our lives. So we want high quality people, people 0:19:12.109 --> 0:19:16.169 who represent the broad spectrum of the Australian community interested 0:19:16.170 --> 0:19:18.790 in public life. So I see it as a responsibility 0:19:18.790 --> 0:19:20.560 of all politicians to encourage 0:19:20.840 --> 0:19:21.770 more people 0:19:22.240 --> 0:19:23.260 to consider 0:19:23.640 --> 0:19:25.860 public office as part of their career path. 0:19:26.240 --> 0:19:27.920 I don't want to do the gotcha thing and ask 0:19:27.920 --> 0:19:30.129 you the question about feminism, but I also kind of 0:19:30.130 --> 0:19:33.919 do not in a gotcha way. But I'm just in 2016, 0:19:33.920 --> 0:19:35.900 you were asked, Are you feminist and you kind of 0:19:35.900 --> 0:19:38.260 it's become this thing are your feminist, are your feminist. 0:19:38.270 --> 0:19:39.860 And you said at the time 0:19:40.440 --> 0:19:43.260 I'm from Western Australia and the foreign minister. 0:19:43.640 --> 0:19:46.070 I'm a liberal, but other than that, I'm not really 0:19:46.070 --> 0:19:48.990 into labels. Other people can call me what they want. 0:19:49.000 --> 0:19:50.490 Is that still your view? 0:19:50.500 --> 0:19:54.320 Yeah, I don't understand why people keep asking me with 0:19:54.320 --> 0:19:55.459 the greatest respect. 0:19:55.840 --> 0:19:59.620 Judge me on what I do. I don't label myself 0:19:59.630 --> 0:20:00.550 a lot of things, 0:20:01.040 --> 0:20:04.170 but it doesn't mean that I'm how unhappy or uncomfortable. 0:20:04.170 --> 0:20:06.570 If other people say, Oh, Julie is a feminist because 0:20:06.570 --> 0:20:11.110 she supports equal opportunity and gender equality. What about? Look 0:20:11.109 --> 0:20:13.689 at what I do and as opposed to how I 0:20:13.690 --> 0:20:14.660 self described. 0:20:15.140 --> 0:20:18.290 It's just not a label I've ever attached to myself. 0:20:18.290 --> 0:20:20.090 And if I started doing it now, I think it 0:20:20.090 --> 0:20:20.560 would be 0:20:20.940 --> 0:20:24.649 lacking in authenticity. So the media, it's kind of a 0:20:24.660 --> 0:20:26.899 game now. I'm not on my part, but the media say, 0:20:26.910 --> 0:20:29.850 Are you yet feminist? And I keep saying we'll have 0:20:29.850 --> 0:20:32.750 a look at what I do. I support women. I 0:20:32.760 --> 0:20:37.260 focus on gender equality. I put 0:20:37.340 --> 0:20:39.740 general quality at the heart of our foreign policy. I 0:20:39.740 --> 0:20:41.300 directed our aid budget 0:20:41.640 --> 0:20:44.510 to ensuring that it had a positive impact on women 0:20:44.510 --> 0:20:45.170 and girls. 0:20:45.540 --> 0:20:48.210 The empowerment of women and girls was a key theme 0:20:48.210 --> 0:20:50.619 of my foreign Ministry. So 0:20:50.630 --> 0:20:53.830 you have been and remain such a role model for 0:20:53.830 --> 0:20:55.350 so many years in and out of 0:20:55.350 --> 0:20:58.570 politics, not get hung up on labels. The reason I 0:20:58.570 --> 0:21:02.440 said I'm a liberal Lima with Australian as, um, somebody 0:21:02.440 --> 0:21:05.850 put to me, but we don't know. We don't know 0:21:06.140 --> 0:21:08.420 enough about you. If you don't call yourself a feminist, 0:21:08.420 --> 0:21:10.240 how do we know who you are? And I said, Well, 0:21:10.250 --> 0:21:12.290 I can tell you I'm a liberal, so that tells 0:21:12.290 --> 0:21:14.740 you my political views. I'm always Australian that tells you 0:21:14.740 --> 0:21:17.840 where I'm from. Um, I've been a lawyer, and now 0:21:17.840 --> 0:21:19.970 I'm a politician That tells you what I do. So 0:21:19.970 --> 0:21:23.129 I was basically saying, You don't need labels. Just have 0:21:23.130 --> 0:21:24.669 a look at what I do. 0:21:25.140 --> 0:21:28.369 What you do is beyond reproach in terms of equality. 0:21:28.380 --> 0:21:31.139 But when you say I'm a liberal and that's a 0:21:31.140 --> 0:21:36.609 word that describes my politics describes me. Isn't feminism also 0:21:36.609 --> 0:21:40.050 that I guess I call myself a feminist to say 0:21:40.940 --> 0:21:45.910 to describe the fact that equality, gender equality and is 0:21:45.910 --> 0:21:47.679 at the forefront of who I am and what I 0:21:47.680 --> 0:21:48.490 stand for. 0:21:48.500 --> 0:21:52.030 People can call themselves whatever they like. I'm perfectly relaxed. 0:21:52.030 --> 0:21:55.040 I don't demand that other people call themselves this, that 0:21:55.040 --> 0:21:56.470 or the other. And I don't see why people should 0:21:56.470 --> 0:21:59.450 demand of me that I self described in a way 0:21:59.840 --> 0:22:00.350 that 0:22:01.040 --> 0:22:05.070 doesn't reflect my thinking. My thinking is, as a liberal, 0:22:05.080 --> 0:22:06.170 I'm into 0:22:06.600 --> 0:22:10.770 individual freedom and choice, and that, to me, 0:22:11.140 --> 0:22:12.550 is about 0:22:13.640 --> 0:22:17.270 gender equality, the freedom to choose the freedom to be. 0:22:17.940 --> 0:22:21.169 And that's what I've sought to achieve in my time 0:22:21.170 --> 0:22:24.560 as a as a legislator, somebody who 0:22:25.040 --> 0:22:27.570 help make decisions on behalf of the Australian public. 0:22:27.609 --> 0:22:29.770 I guess the reason people say Has it changed? Has 0:22:29.770 --> 0:22:32.770 it changed? You know, I watched John Howard being interviewed 0:22:33.750 --> 0:22:35.420 at the end of last year and had again just 0:22:35.420 --> 0:22:37.500 saying its merit. We don't need quotas. We don't need anything. 0:22:37.500 --> 0:22:40.060 It should just be Merritt, Merritt, Merritt, Merritt Merritt And 0:22:40.740 --> 0:22:42.680 I don't know. I suppose the perception that you would 0:22:42.690 --> 0:22:46.119 maybe be frustrated with that argument and not necessarily agree 0:22:46.119 --> 0:22:46.450 with that, 0:22:46.450 --> 0:22:49.150 But that's why I've been talking about targets. I've seen quotas, 0:22:49.150 --> 0:22:52.880 not work. I've seen the perverse impact of quotas where 0:22:52.890 --> 0:22:56.510 people have been appointed because they had to because there's 0:22:56.510 --> 0:22:59.090 a quota. And that's not the right outcome either. Nobody 0:22:59.090 --> 0:23:02.030 wants to say I'm there because they needed to fill 0:23:02.030 --> 0:23:02.669 a quota. 0:23:02.840 --> 0:23:05.480 No, man, no woman wants to say that. I would 0:23:05.480 --> 0:23:06.670 have thought so. 0:23:07.640 --> 0:23:07.840 Yeah, 0:23:08.840 --> 0:23:09.030 yeah, 0:23:09.540 --> 0:23:10.040 Yeah. 0:23:13.740 --> 0:23:17.170 When you were foreign Minister, you spent 50% of your 0:23:17.170 --> 0:23:20.810 time overseas. 25% in Canberra in 25% in 0:23:21.150 --> 0:23:23.290 that right? I think it's about that. Yeah, that's right, 0:23:23.300 --> 0:23:24.139 I imagine. 0:23:24.140 --> 0:23:25.580 Or maybe it was a third. A third, a third? No, 0:23:25.580 --> 0:23:27.450 two thirds. One third 0:23:27.840 --> 0:23:30.950 between Canberra and the rest of the country. I imagine 0:23:30.950 --> 0:23:34.060 you probably spent about 30% of your time on a plane. 0:23:34.070 --> 0:23:36.880 I did a lot of time. Did sleep overnight many 0:23:36.880 --> 0:23:38.510 times on a plane. You must have become a 0:23:38.510 --> 0:23:40.480 very good flyer. What was your routine? 0:23:40.490 --> 0:23:43.720 Well, I just didn't have the luxury of jet lag. 0:23:43.720 --> 0:23:45.359 You just couldn't do it because 0:23:45.840 --> 0:23:49.530 I would fly when parliament wasn't sitting. And not many 0:23:49.530 --> 0:23:53.760 foreign ministers have had to be in a parliament where 0:23:54.540 --> 0:23:58.350 you had to be present. We didn't have a majority. 0:23:58.740 --> 0:24:00.700 And so you couldn't miss it. We had a we 0:24:00.700 --> 0:24:02.840 had a one seat majority at one point and then 0:24:03.060 --> 0:24:04.260 listen that 0:24:04.640 --> 0:24:07.490 and so I had to be there for votes. I 0:24:07.490 --> 0:24:09.730 was also the deputy leader, which meant I had to 0:24:09.740 --> 0:24:12.630 fill in for the prime minister and had a lot 0:24:12.630 --> 0:24:16.610 of demands across the country. And so when I went 0:24:16.609 --> 0:24:19.359 overseas we had to be as effective and as efficient 0:24:19.840 --> 0:24:21.060 as possible. So 0:24:21.440 --> 0:24:25.500 we often flew overnight from country to country, not sleeping 0:24:25.500 --> 0:24:28.160 in hotels and sleeping on the plane 0:24:28.640 --> 0:24:31.840 and then getting back and starting a full day. So 0:24:31.850 --> 0:24:34.610 you didn't have days off in between to recover. So 0:24:34.609 --> 0:24:36.510 I decided that I couldn't do. Jet lag would have 0:24:36.510 --> 0:24:41.080 to get rid of that, not an option. And I 0:24:41.090 --> 0:24:42.560 would always try and 0:24:43.040 --> 0:24:44.770 get some sleep on the plane. 0:24:45.240 --> 0:24:47.650 Always start the day with a run. Didn't matter what 0:24:47.650 --> 0:24:50.600 time I got in the night before or even early morning. 0:24:50.609 --> 0:24:53.580 I tricked my body into thinking it's 5:30 a.m. Time 0:24:53.580 --> 0:24:56.690 for run and I would run great for the endorphins 0:24:56.700 --> 0:24:58.750 and that's a really good way to start the day. 0:24:58.760 --> 0:25:01.170 But it also got you into the routine of the day, 0:25:01.170 --> 0:25:02.060 and that's important. 0:25:02.140 --> 0:25:02.960 How do you know? 0:25:02.970 --> 0:25:04.820 I don't think about what time it is back home. 0:25:04.820 --> 0:25:05.119 Where to 0:25:05.119 --> 0:25:08.850 run, like how does that work? I noticed two things. Firstly, 0:25:08.859 --> 0:25:11.940 you always seem to be running with purpose. Even if 0:25:11.950 --> 0:25:13.870 I imagine you'd wake up some days and not even 0:25:13.869 --> 0:25:16.730 know where you were, So does someone map out the 0:25:16.730 --> 0:25:18.619 route for you? And I also noticed that you don't 0:25:18.619 --> 0:25:21.359 tend to run with earbuds or earphones in. 0:25:21.369 --> 0:25:22.169 Well, 0:25:22.240 --> 0:25:25.629 if I were traveling overseas, the embassy and the Department 0:25:25.630 --> 0:25:27.550 of Foreign Affairs and Trade would put together my 0:25:27.740 --> 0:25:30.740 itinerary, my schedule for the day, and they would include 0:25:30.750 --> 0:25:32.740 at my request, they would include a morning run, 0:25:33.140 --> 0:25:35.869 and so my security detail would work that out in 0:25:35.869 --> 0:25:37.800 advance and they would check out the places to run 0:25:37.800 --> 0:25:40.840 and not run. I remember one day we were running 0:25:40.840 --> 0:25:44.679 through the traffic in Jakarta, and the federal police officer 0:25:44.680 --> 0:25:46.920 with me said this wasn't my idea. I didn't want 0:25:46.920 --> 0:25:49.100 you running through the traffic, so I didn't always take 0:25:49.100 --> 0:25:52.460 their advice, but they would work out a route. 0:25:52.740 --> 0:25:54.960 And depending upon how much time I had, we would 0:25:55.140 --> 0:25:56.550 run half an hour an hour, 0:25:57.240 --> 0:25:59.659 and I find you 0:25:59.660 --> 0:26:02.100 very fit people to be your security detail. How did 0:26:02.100 --> 0:26:02.790 that work? 0:26:02.800 --> 0:26:07.119 They came to that conclusion after I left one of 0:26:07.119 --> 0:26:09.290 the federal police officers. I shouldn't say they should have 0:26:09.300 --> 0:26:14.320 a long way behind. And I had to run back 0:26:14.320 --> 0:26:16.070 and get him. And I thought, This is This isn't 0:26:16.070 --> 0:26:17.270 the way it's meant to work. Is it 0:26:17.540 --> 0:26:20.060 job for everybody having to. So they 0:26:20.210 --> 0:26:22.070 So they did get to a point where they would 0:26:22.070 --> 0:26:24.050 ask for volunteers. So I knew 0:26:24.140 --> 0:26:26.190 that whoever was coming running would be able to last 0:26:26.190 --> 0:26:26.940 the distance. How far 0:26:26.940 --> 0:26:27.920 would you run every morning, 0:26:28.230 --> 0:26:30.650 Somewhere between six and 10. Case. 0:26:31.540 --> 0:26:33.880 And do you have a rhythm with that? You don't 0:26:33.880 --> 0:26:34.340 listen to me. 0:26:34.340 --> 0:26:35.980 You know, I don't I don't. I like to be 0:26:35.980 --> 0:26:39.960 very aware of my surroundings. And particularly when I was 0:26:39.960 --> 0:26:43.800 running in exotic places overseas, I wanted to absorb the 0:26:43.800 --> 0:26:47.460 sounds and smells and and the visual, um, 0:26:48.340 --> 0:26:51.480 observations were so important to me. And because so often 0:26:51.480 --> 0:26:52.720 we were in a place 0:26:53.140 --> 0:26:56.240 that would mean come in from the airport. I'd say 0:26:56.240 --> 0:26:58.780 in a hotel I'd go to a conference. I get 0:26:58.780 --> 0:27:00.060 back in the car, go back to the 0:27:00.540 --> 0:27:04.149 airport. I wouldn't see the city. So the run in 0:27:04.150 --> 0:27:06.270 the morning was an opportunity for me to get the 0:27:06.270 --> 0:27:08.880 vibe of the place. And I tell you, there's nothing 0:27:08.880 --> 0:27:11.659 more exciting than running through the streets of New York 0:27:11.660 --> 0:27:14.300 at 5 30 AM, when the street cleaners are there 0:27:14.300 --> 0:27:17.300 and the people are just opening up their stores and 0:27:17.310 --> 0:27:19.050 whether it was whether it was 0:27:19.440 --> 0:27:24.180 in Suva or Port Moresby or Mumbai, I would always 0:27:24.180 --> 0:27:26.409 run around a part of the city to get the 0:27:26.410 --> 0:27:28.020 feeling of it. And it was fantastic. 0:27:28.119 --> 0:27:28.959 Treadmill girl? 0:27:28.970 --> 0:27:31.500 No, not at all. If I can run outside, I'll 0:27:31.500 --> 0:27:34.350 be outside a gym as a last option, 0:27:34.840 --> 0:27:36.920 with all the work you have to do as foreign 0:27:36.920 --> 0:27:39.139 minister and as a politician in general, but particularly the 0:27:39.140 --> 0:27:44.890 foreign minister. A lot of dinners, state dinners, banquets, 10 0:27:44.890 --> 0:27:46.960 course meals, plain food, 0:27:47.540 --> 0:27:48.750 I imagine hotel 0:27:48.750 --> 0:27:50.370 rooms. How 0:27:50.369 --> 0:27:52.980 did you plan that part of your life? Just the 0:27:52.990 --> 0:27:55.470 eating part and a lot of time. I imagine you 0:27:55.470 --> 0:27:57.820 wouldn't have control necessarily over what you ate. 0:27:57.830 --> 0:28:00.000 It's very interesting. I should write a book on the 0:28:00.000 --> 0:28:04.190 banquettes I've attended. Uh, it was a challenge because you 0:28:04.190 --> 0:28:05.770 don't want to offend your hosts. 0:28:06.140 --> 0:28:09.260 And I think the key to it is just eat 0:28:09.270 --> 0:28:11.770 small portions of all of it. Try a bit of 0:28:11.770 --> 0:28:12.260 everything 0:28:12.640 --> 0:28:16.320 and don't overdo the desert. But I say that it's 0:28:16.320 --> 0:28:19.800 just I'm just saying it. Don't overdo the desert. I've 0:28:19.800 --> 0:28:21.359 got the sweet tooth from 0:28:21.840 --> 0:28:23.960 hell. I really do. I love chocolate, 0:28:24.440 --> 0:28:26.639 but I would just try and be careful, and then 0:28:26.640 --> 0:28:29.590 sometimes I would fast on the plane. I wouldn't eat 0:28:29.590 --> 0:28:31.939 on a plane, and then I wouldn't feel so guilty 0:28:31.940 --> 0:28:32.360 about 0:28:32.740 --> 0:28:35.010 having to sit through a five course meal or more. 0:28:35.020 --> 0:28:37.670 Would you have routines in your hotel room in terms 0:28:37.670 --> 0:28:40.990 of what you do to make yourself or trying all 0:28:40.990 --> 0:28:42.810 these different places? Try not to eat them anyway. 0:28:42.810 --> 0:28:44.990 I try not to go near the mini bar. That's 0:28:44.990 --> 0:28:45.660 a start, because 0:28:45.660 --> 0:28:48.220 it's very unsettling. The idea of sleeping in different beds 0:28:48.220 --> 0:28:49.420 all the time and 0:28:49.430 --> 0:28:52.360 yes, well, when you're away for, say, what was 0:28:52.440 --> 0:28:55.310 about 110 nights overseas, 0:28:55.840 --> 0:28:57.960 there were times when I would wake up and then 0:28:57.970 --> 0:29:02.050 feel around me. Okay, where's my phone? Where's the light switch. 0:29:02.050 --> 0:29:05.350 Where am I? Where? Bathroom. That would happen. Wake up 0:29:05.360 --> 0:29:05.770 and think. 0:29:06.240 --> 0:29:08.830 Okay. Tuesday must be Belgium. 0:29:08.840 --> 0:29:11.390 What's my hotel room number? I've forgotten. 0:29:11.400 --> 0:29:14.760 I There have been occasions when I've been trying to remember. 0:29:14.760 --> 0:29:17.210 Somebody will say what was exquisite hotel like And I 0:29:17.220 --> 0:29:17.550 think 0:29:18.040 --> 0:29:20.800 I stayed there and I'll try and visualize what it 0:29:20.800 --> 0:29:24.190 looked like in my mind. And then I'll remember something like, Ah, 0:29:24.190 --> 0:29:27.700 the passageway. Remember the breakfast room yet? Something will come 0:29:27.700 --> 0:29:29.200 back to me. And I'll remember where you went for 0:29:29.200 --> 0:29:31.860 a run. Yeah, I remember my runs very well. 0:29:32.240 --> 0:29:33.170 How do you pack? 0:29:33.840 --> 0:29:39.120 With great difficulty. It's like a military operation rolling, folding, 0:29:39.130 --> 0:29:41.850 trying to work out day by day, what I'm going 0:29:41.850 --> 0:29:45.050 to need to wear. And this is something that guys 0:29:45.050 --> 0:29:45.860 just don't get 0:29:46.340 --> 0:29:50.360 because they can put in suits, shirts, ties, done. 0:29:50.740 --> 0:29:54.460 But for a woman, you're expected to 0:29:54.940 --> 0:29:58.050 take a cocktail, Frank, if there's an event or a 0:29:58.050 --> 0:30:01.500 suit or you're running here. And so if I were 0:30:01.500 --> 0:30:03.850 going away sometimes for 10 days at a time, 0:30:04.340 --> 0:30:08.240 I sit at home and go through day by day. Well, 0:30:08.240 --> 0:30:10.590 I wear that outfit that day, that one that one 0:30:10.600 --> 0:30:12.470 and go through it and then work out the weather. 0:30:12.470 --> 0:30:15.310 And it's going to be hot cold because often I 0:30:15.310 --> 0:30:17.860 remember my last overseas trip as foreign minister. 0:30:18.440 --> 0:30:23.500 We went from North Asia to Southeast Asia, to Samoa 0:30:23.510 --> 0:30:26.890 and back to Sydney, and so it was going Northern hemisphere, 0:30:26.890 --> 0:30:30.880 Southern hemisphere, formal, casual and everything in between. So you 0:30:30.880 --> 0:30:31.270 just 0:30:31.740 --> 0:30:35.550 over time you learn to pack for any and all occasions. 0:30:35.940 --> 0:30:37.580 Do you do your own hair and makeup? Because that's 0:30:37.580 --> 0:30:40.990 another tax on women in the public eye that men 0:30:40.990 --> 0:30:42.610 don't have to pay in terms of time 0:30:42.620 --> 0:30:45.440 unless I'm doing a TV interview and you know how 0:30:45.440 --> 0:30:48.170 they have. They have makeup rooms and they make you 0:30:48.170 --> 0:30:48.360 look 0:30:48.840 --> 0:30:51.970 younger and brighter and fresher. But otherwise, no, I do 0:30:51.970 --> 0:30:54.060 my own hair and makeup and I don't have a stylist. 0:30:54.060 --> 0:30:55.780 I do my own clothes shopping. 0:30:55.790 --> 0:31:00.260 I noticed you love fashion, which we all love about you. 0:31:00.270 --> 0:31:02.840 Well, I don't apologize for it. You know who I 0:31:02.840 --> 0:31:05.630 am and if you want authentic politicians, you've just got 0:31:05.630 --> 0:31:07.890 to accept the fact that I love fashion. I always have, 0:31:07.890 --> 0:31:08.670 and I always will. 0:31:08.740 --> 0:31:11.720 Your fashion style changed a few years ago, I noticed 0:31:11.720 --> 0:31:15.160 you used to wear brightly colored jackets and pearls. 0:31:15.240 --> 0:31:20.870 And then you started wearing a lot of Armani. More edgy, close, 0:31:20.880 --> 0:31:25.610 more dark colours. You became more, I would say, contemporary 0:31:25.610 --> 0:31:27.020 and more fashion. 0:31:27.030 --> 0:31:30.450 You know there's a story behind this. Please tell it. Amazing. 0:31:30.920 --> 0:31:34.170 As a lawyer, I 0:31:35.140 --> 0:31:38.260 war suits, uh, a lot because that's kind of the 0:31:38.270 --> 0:31:42.250 professional uniform. And I bought my first Armani suit as 0:31:42.260 --> 0:31:45.370 a partner in a law firm, saved up enough and 0:31:45.370 --> 0:31:47.170 brought in the money suit. I thought Love it. 0:31:48.040 --> 0:31:51.850 When I was first appointed to the ministry, 0:31:52.840 --> 0:31:53.459 I 0:31:54.040 --> 0:31:57.160 was asked to be the minister for aged care for aging, 0:31:57.940 --> 0:31:58.660 and 0:31:59.340 --> 0:32:02.670 one of the prime minister's senior advisers rang me 0:32:03.240 --> 0:32:03.960 and said, 0:32:04.540 --> 0:32:08.180 Julie, take this the right way. But forget the Armani suits. 0:32:08.190 --> 0:32:09.550 Forget the corporate. Look, 0:32:10.340 --> 0:32:12.930 you're the minister for aging. You're going into age care homes. 0:32:12.930 --> 0:32:15.310 You've got to dress appropriately and I'm there. I don't know. 0:32:15.320 --> 0:32:17.740 This is a guy telling me, What do you mean? 0:32:17.740 --> 0:32:19.330 What do you want me to wear? Like I am 0:32:19.330 --> 0:32:20.360 who I am? I've been 0:32:20.840 --> 0:32:21.770 a professional 0:32:22.240 --> 0:32:25.090 career woman for quite some time now, and I have 0:32:25.090 --> 0:32:27.130 a dress and how to get dressed, he said. You know, 0:32:27.140 --> 0:32:29.890 like I said, What you mean like cardigans? And this 0:32:29.890 --> 0:32:33.490 is Before Michelle Obama turned cardigans into a fashion item. 0:32:33.500 --> 0:32:36.410 I said, Like cardigans. He goes, Yeah, more prints, more color, 0:32:36.410 --> 0:32:38.460 more down, up. 0:32:38.840 --> 0:32:39.950 Just not corporate. 0:32:40.440 --> 0:32:44.360 So you'll see me as minister for aging, looking 0:32:45.140 --> 0:32:45.670 like 0:32:46.140 --> 0:32:48.170 they expected me to look, that was, 0:32:48.640 --> 0:32:51.960 and then I thought, This is ridiculous. Don't let other 0:32:51.960 --> 0:32:55.680 people define who you are, what you wear be authentic. 0:32:55.690 --> 0:32:58.860 And so I just decided one day of 0:32:59.240 --> 0:33:00.700 had enough of that, I'm going to dress the way 0:33:00.700 --> 0:33:01.310 I want to dress. 0:33:01.940 --> 0:33:05.930 I love it. I was watching Amanda Vanstone on You 0:33:05.930 --> 0:33:09.910 Can't Ask That the ABC Show, and she strikes me 0:33:09.910 --> 0:33:13.080 as someone who also just really knows her style. She 0:33:13.080 --> 0:33:16.910 wears her bright prince short sleeve shirts with her skirts 0:33:16.910 --> 0:33:19.090 or slacks, and that's just her. 0:33:19.100 --> 0:33:21.170 Well, that's right. You wear what 0:33:21.340 --> 0:33:22.270 makes you feel 0:33:22.340 --> 0:33:25.340 comfortable, happy dress for yourself. Don't dress for others, and 0:33:25.340 --> 0:33:27.720 I made that mistake. So I now dress very much 0:33:27.720 --> 0:33:30.450 for myself and sure you get criticized for it. But 0:33:30.450 --> 0:33:33.350 if I feel comfortable, if I'm happy with what I'm wearing. 0:33:33.840 --> 0:33:34.460 That's enough, 0:33:35.540 --> 0:33:40.270 Julie. How do you date when you're a politician and 0:33:40.270 --> 0:33:42.990 you're the foreign Minister? I mean I mean, imagine there's 0:33:42.990 --> 0:33:45.210 no shortage of men around you all the time. But 0:33:45.220 --> 0:33:47.920 how do you actually have any kind of romantic or 0:33:47.920 --> 0:33:48.460 personal life? 0:33:48.470 --> 0:33:51.270 I have a lovely partner indeed. How did you guys 0:33:51.270 --> 0:33:55.170 meet through Bruce Baird? See, you can have friends in politics. 0:33:55.180 --> 0:33:56.770 Bruce was the first 0:33:57.240 --> 0:34:00.230 person that I met when I became a new member 0:34:00.230 --> 0:34:03.780 of Parliament back in 1998. He had the opposite opposite mine, 0:34:03.790 --> 0:34:06.660 and we just struck up a friendship. We became friends, 0:34:06.660 --> 0:34:07.950 and we're friends. To this day, 0:34:08.440 --> 0:34:09.780 he introduced us 0:34:10.440 --> 0:34:14.049 and you've been together, you and David for about five 0:34:14.050 --> 0:34:18.569 years or so now and used to travel a lot together. 0:34:18.580 --> 0:34:23.670 At one point, I think, um, Melania Trump confused you 0:34:23.670 --> 0:34:24.280 with one of the 0:34:24.280 --> 0:34:27.620 wives. She told me that story. Well, I get into 0:34:27.620 --> 0:34:29.360 trouble with the White House when I tell this story. 0:34:29.540 --> 0:34:34.390 But Melania anymore. No. Melania assumed that David was the 0:34:34.390 --> 0:34:36.049 foreign minister and that I was the 0:34:36.440 --> 0:34:40.250 the partner and she asked me to her 0:34:40.640 --> 0:34:43.120 lunch the partners lunch the next day and I said, Oh, no, 0:34:43.120 --> 0:34:46.310 David's going And she was very puzzled. Why would Australia's 0:34:46.310 --> 0:34:49.140 foreign minister turned up at my ladies' lunch? But she 0:34:49.140 --> 0:34:51.050 obviously worked it out the next day when David did 0:34:51.050 --> 0:34:52.250 turn up the lunch and 0:34:52.640 --> 0:34:56.330 he said he had a wonderful time, so he 0:34:56.330 --> 0:34:59.490 has to be pretty secure to be to be dating you. 0:34:59.489 --> 0:35:02.790 You're pretty formidable and accomplished and beautiful and all of 0:35:02.790 --> 0:35:03.009 those 0:35:03.010 --> 0:35:05.469 things. No, he's a very special person. 0:35:06.340 --> 0:35:09.359 Can I ask you about a few different people? Barack Obama? 0:35:09.840 --> 0:35:12.410 Yes, I met him on a number of occasions. He 0:35:12.410 --> 0:35:14.250 was a very cool, 0:35:14.940 --> 0:35:18.690 calm person. He had a delightful sense of humor, but 0:35:18.690 --> 0:35:21.089 it was very It was very laid back, a lot 0:35:21.090 --> 0:35:23.160 more informal than I had expected. 0:35:23.540 --> 0:35:26.469 And he was fun to be around. 0:35:26.940 --> 0:35:27.560 I 0:35:27.940 --> 0:35:32.230 met him here in Australia and in Washington and in 0:35:32.230 --> 0:35:32.760 New York, 0:35:33.239 --> 0:35:35.840 and on every occasion he would call you by your 0:35:35.840 --> 0:35:38.339 first name. There was a real informality about him that 0:35:38.350 --> 0:35:39.169 was quite charming. 0:35:39.540 --> 0:35:44.500 He seems to have worn his, um, role, I guess, 0:35:44.500 --> 0:35:47.620 quite lightly. Like heavily in terms of he took, he 0:35:47.620 --> 0:35:51.259 took it. It was very responsible, obviously, and an extraordinary leader, 0:35:51.640 --> 0:35:54.940 but he seemed to not take himself too seriously. He 0:35:54.940 --> 0:35:56.379 seemed like he would be quite fun to be 0:35:56.380 --> 0:35:59.680 around. He seemed to be quite relaxed in the role, 0:35:59.690 --> 0:36:04.860 and that was quite an attractive quality. Being around, you know, 0:36:04.860 --> 0:36:07.860 he was the leader of the free world, the world's 0:36:07.860 --> 0:36:10.660 only superpower. And you're the president. It's a 0:36:11.530 --> 0:36:14.250 a very substantial role. Let's face it. 0:36:14.730 --> 0:36:16.739 But he seemed to be very relaxed, 0:36:17.130 --> 0:36:18.850 remarkably relaxed in the role. 0:36:18.860 --> 0:36:21.260 Did you read Michelle Obama's becoming 0:36:21.270 --> 0:36:24.600 I started? I haven't finished it. I've got about eight books. 0:36:24.600 --> 0:36:26.799 I imagine you met her a number of times. Yes, 0:36:26.800 --> 0:36:33.450 I did. She's charming, delightful, likewise very accessible, very informal 0:36:33.830 --> 0:36:38.270 and very tall. She's beautiful. They're both very tall. I 0:36:38.270 --> 0:36:40.219 have my photograph taken with them a number of times, 0:36:40.219 --> 0:36:41.050 and I felt like 0:36:41.430 --> 0:36:46.070 tiny little person between these two glamour Zahn's. It was 0:36:46.080 --> 0:36:47.250 a bit intimidating. 0:36:47.930 --> 0:36:49.710 Uh, did you make Donald 0:36:49.710 --> 0:36:51.739 Trump? Yes, Donald and Melania. 0:36:52.330 --> 0:36:53.069 I know 0:36:53.070 --> 0:36:54.550 you have to be diplomatic. 0:36:54.560 --> 0:36:57.860 I met the president on a number of occasions. He 0:36:57.870 --> 0:37:02.740 is quite unorthodox. He's very confident, self confident 0:37:03.130 --> 0:37:08.570 and again because I was Australia's foreign minister. He was 0:37:08.580 --> 0:37:10.049 very warm and welcoming. 0:37:10.530 --> 0:37:13.950 I don't know that we appreciate how highly regarded Australia 0:37:13.960 --> 0:37:17.090 is on the world stage. And so it was such 0:37:17.090 --> 0:37:20.800 an honor to be Australia's foreign minister and turning up 0:37:20.800 --> 0:37:23.530 at these forums and meetings and conferences and the United 0:37:23.530 --> 0:37:27.649 Nations time and time again. And people seem genuinely pleased 0:37:27.650 --> 0:37:31.110 to see you and genuinely respectful of your view, because 0:37:31.110 --> 0:37:32.160 you were from Australia, 0:37:32.330 --> 0:37:34.440 a country that is very highly regarded. 0:37:34.450 --> 0:37:36.850 Haven't we lost a lot of skin in the last 0:37:36.850 --> 0:37:38.839 few years? The Italy of 0:37:39.730 --> 0:37:44.050 the Pacific and just with this ridiculous kangaroo style 0:37:44.430 --> 0:37:46.550 in and out of I was contacted 0:37:46.550 --> 0:37:50.660 by a number of counterparts overseas who were puzzled. They 0:37:50.660 --> 0:37:52.950 were perplexed because that's not the image they had of 0:37:52.950 --> 0:37:54.660 Australia were one of the 0:37:55.030 --> 0:38:01.549 longest standing democracies in modern times, and people always equated 0:38:01.550 --> 0:38:05.590 Australia to political stability, many other things as well open 0:38:05.590 --> 0:38:10.330 liberal democracy, freedom and the rule of law and open, 0:38:10.340 --> 0:38:13.830 export oriented market economy. There are things about Australia that 0:38:13.830 --> 0:38:14.950 stand the test of time, 0:38:15.219 --> 0:38:18.940 and this just went against their understanding of Australia 0:38:19.320 --> 0:38:22.510 and why were we changing prime ministers and then what 0:38:22.510 --> 0:38:24.290 was the reason for it? And they will be expecting 0:38:24.290 --> 0:38:30.300 some deep, substantial philosophical ideological divide, and it came down to, well, 0:38:30.300 --> 0:38:31.440 they don't like working with him. 0:38:32.020 --> 0:38:34.709 That's pretty much why Malcolm Turnbull went like, Can anyone 0:38:34.719 --> 0:38:37.450 still to this day explain what just happened? 0:38:37.820 --> 0:38:41.310 Well, I certainly wasn't the instigator of it, so I 0:38:41.320 --> 0:38:45.680 had no cause to want to see Malcolm leave, and 0:38:45.680 --> 0:38:48.140 I thought the polling was heading in the right direction, 0:38:48.140 --> 0:38:50.650 and I was confident that Malcolm would win the next election. 0:38:51.020 --> 0:38:53.190 But likewise, I'm confident that Scott Morrison will win the 0:38:53.190 --> 0:38:54.040 election so 0:38:54.520 --> 0:38:59.169 the policies do matter. And I think the Australian people 0:38:59.180 --> 0:39:02.700 trust the Coalition on Economic Management and National Security. Another 0:39:02.700 --> 0:39:05.190 two tenants, if you like, of a federal government. 0:39:05.200 --> 0:39:09.080 When you met a lot of foreign diplomats and leaders, 0:39:09.620 --> 0:39:12.220 what were their ideas about Australia, like, what did they 0:39:12.219 --> 0:39:14.640 want to talk to you about? Was it koalas? Was 0:39:14.640 --> 0:39:15.250 it about 0:39:15.420 --> 0:39:20.149 Kylie Minogue like what was their pop cultural understanding of 0:39:20.820 --> 0:39:23.430 where we see it in the world? Many of them 0:39:23.430 --> 0:39:25.950 had visited Australia, and there 0:39:26.520 --> 0:39:31.230 reference point was normally how clean and open and free 0:39:31.239 --> 0:39:33.150 we are as a society, 0:39:33.620 --> 0:39:37.540 and that's why when there was the Lindt Cafe 0:39:37.920 --> 0:39:40.370 attack, for example, people were shocked again. That's not what 0:39:40.370 --> 0:39:41.150 they expected 0:39:42.020 --> 0:39:43.340 to happen in Australia, 0:39:43.719 --> 0:39:45.450 and so were seen as a 0:39:45.820 --> 0:39:47.140 a country that 0:39:47.920 --> 0:39:50.600 is the envy of the world in so many ways 0:39:50.850 --> 0:39:55.750 were economically successful. We have a lifestyle, second, none, 0:39:56.120 --> 0:39:56.839 and 0:39:57.719 --> 0:39:58.950 the people are friendly. 0:39:59.320 --> 0:40:02.880 So that's the image people have of us overseas. Many 0:40:02.880 --> 0:40:05.230 foreign ministers, for example, had been to Australia. 0:40:05.710 --> 0:40:08.070 A number had not. Now, this is an interesting one. 0:40:08.080 --> 0:40:12.320 John Kerry was US secretary of state, long standing foreign 0:40:12.320 --> 0:40:14.020 policy expert, and 0:40:14.610 --> 0:40:19.320 he came to Australia in 2016 as part of what's 0:40:19.320 --> 0:40:22.819 called Osmond the Australia US Ministerial Dialogue. 0:40:23.410 --> 0:40:26.540 He had never been to Australia, and I was quite 0:40:26.540 --> 0:40:28.880 taken aback by that. How could that possibly be a 0:40:28.880 --> 0:40:29.640 senior 0:40:30.310 --> 0:40:33.129 public figure in the US who had been a senator 0:40:33.130 --> 0:40:35.960 for 30 years, had never found his way to Australia. Anyway, 0:40:35.969 --> 0:40:38.680 I remember the first press conference and he was saying 0:40:38.680 --> 0:40:40.630 to the media, I've never been to Australia before, and 0:40:40.630 --> 0:40:42.600 then I took him aside and said I wouldn't tell 0:40:42.600 --> 0:40:44.750 them that again. I wouldn't because they're just going to 0:40:44.750 --> 0:40:46.330 ask you why the hell not? 0:40:46.710 --> 0:40:50.940 But he was enchanted by the place. We had the 0:40:50.940 --> 0:40:56.520 meeting at Admiralty House, so in Sydney, and we took 0:40:56.530 --> 0:40:57.530 the 0:40:58.010 --> 0:41:01.920 Navy's barge from the opera house steps. The manual steps 0:41:01.930 --> 0:41:05.680 over to Admiralty House, and the governor general, Peter Cosgrove, 0:41:05.680 --> 0:41:06.320 measures there. 0:41:06.810 --> 0:41:10.170 And John Kerry looked out over Sydney Harbour and said, 0:41:10.180 --> 0:41:13.540 This is amazing. So I added, This is why you 0:41:13.540 --> 0:41:16.010 should have been here before just to get an understanding 0:41:16.010 --> 0:41:17.910 of what Australia's really love. You 0:41:17.910 --> 0:41:22.930 were the deputy of three different leaders. Brendan Nelson, Tony 0:41:22.930 --> 0:41:24.140 Abbott and Malcolm Turnbull. 0:41:24.910 --> 0:41:28.839 Well, Brendan Nelson, Malcolm Turnbull, Tony Abbott, Malcolm Turnbull went 0:41:28.840 --> 0:41:29.739 in that order. So 0:41:30.310 --> 0:41:30.950 Malcolm Turnbull, 0:41:31.460 --> 0:41:32.590 Malcolm, tell 0:41:32.590 --> 0:41:35.660 me about the relationship when you're a deputy to your 0:41:35.670 --> 0:41:36.830 to your party leader. 0:41:38.510 --> 0:41:41.180 The interesting point about the deputy of the Liberal Party 0:41:41.190 --> 0:41:44.830 is that you are elected directly by the party room. 0:41:45.210 --> 0:41:47.739 It's about the only position that is not appointed by 0:41:47.739 --> 0:41:48.370 the leader. 0:41:49.010 --> 0:41:49.830 And 0:41:50.600 --> 0:41:54.259 so he doesn't get to choose or she 0:41:54.590 --> 0:41:58.410 Menzies, our founder, did this deliberately. He set it up 0:41:58.410 --> 0:41:59.140 so that 0:41:59.510 --> 0:42:02.030 there were two positions elected by the party room, the 0:42:02.030 --> 0:42:04.830 leader and the deputy leader. And that meant the deputy 0:42:04.830 --> 0:42:08.779 leader was actually answerable to the party room, not to 0:42:08.780 --> 0:42:12.310 the leader. So the leader couldn't sack the deputy. And 0:42:12.310 --> 0:42:13.610 I was very conscious of that 0:42:14.400 --> 0:42:19.689 responsibility and the role of deputy. You are the conduit 0:42:19.700 --> 0:42:20.310 between 0:42:20.800 --> 0:42:22.419 the back bench 0:42:22.800 --> 0:42:26.960 and the leader. So while Cabinet ministers were appointed by 0:42:26.960 --> 0:42:27.510 the 0:42:28.500 --> 0:42:31.730 leader while chairs of committees were appointed by the leader, 0:42:31.730 --> 0:42:35.040 so he who gives can take away the deputy's position 0:42:35.040 --> 0:42:37.630 was elected by the whole party room. And so I 0:42:37.630 --> 0:42:40.410 was re elected a number of times by the party room. 0:42:40.420 --> 0:42:43.690 On the last occasion, I didn't stand for re elections. 0:42:43.690 --> 0:42:44.610 Why didn't you? 0:42:45.650 --> 0:42:45.710 You 0:42:46.400 --> 0:42:49.350 know what I was going to stand for? Leader, leader. 0:42:49.360 --> 0:42:53.430 And then when I didn't get through 0:42:53.880 --> 0:42:58.660 that test, I decided not to run for Deputy because 0:42:58.660 --> 0:43:00.219 I thought they need a new team. 0:43:00.800 --> 0:43:01.930 It would be 0:43:02.500 --> 0:43:04.969 wise for me to stand aside and let a new 0:43:04.969 --> 0:43:06.819 team start all over again. 0:43:07.200 --> 0:43:09.930 So that's what happened. So Josh Fredinburg stood and he 0:43:09.930 --> 0:43:12.800 was elected and I didn't stand. So I have an 0:43:12.810 --> 0:43:14.610 unblemished record as deputy. 0:43:15.000 --> 0:43:17.040 There were some leaders that you seem to get on 0:43:17.040 --> 0:43:19.520 with better than others that you were more probably like 0:43:19.520 --> 0:43:24.170 minded than others. You and Brendan Nelson remain close friends. 0:43:24.180 --> 0:43:28.009 You and Malcolm Turnbull seemed to be a really good team. 0:43:28.010 --> 0:43:31.960 I knew Malcolm from a long time ago. We met 0:43:31.969 --> 0:43:34.320 in the late eighties when he was 0:43:34.500 --> 0:43:36.660 a lawyer from Sydney and I was a lawyer in Perth, 0:43:36.660 --> 0:43:36.930 and 0:43:37.000 --> 0:43:38.920 our firm briefed Malcolm 0:43:39.300 --> 0:43:43.040 on some significant litigation. At the time. He had a 0:43:43.040 --> 0:43:45.660 long standing. So I know Malcolm. For a long time 0:43:45.660 --> 0:43:49.620 I've been to his birthday parties. I've got to know Lucy. Well, um, 0:43:50.000 --> 0:43:52.910 Malcolm's father in law, Tom Hughes, was a barrister that 0:43:52.910 --> 0:43:55.460 I briefed on many occasions. So I've known the Turnbull 0:43:55.460 --> 0:43:58.070 family Turnbull Hughes family for many years. So Malcolm and 0:43:58.070 --> 0:44:01.150 I were friends before he came into politics. In fact, 0:44:01.160 --> 0:44:04.730 we both went to the Constitutional Convention. Back in 1998 0:44:04.730 --> 0:44:07.609 he was heading up the Republican movement, and I was 0:44:07.989 --> 0:44:11.239 an appointed delegate from Western Australia as a female lawyer 0:44:11.239 --> 0:44:13.279 at the time. So I've known Malcolm for a long time, 0:44:13.280 --> 0:44:16.390 so we were friends before he came into politics, and 0:44:16.400 --> 0:44:17.710 we're friends to this day. 0:44:18.590 --> 0:44:19.810 What about Tony Abbott? 0:44:20.390 --> 0:44:25.820 Tony was my senior minister when I was the minister 0:44:25.820 --> 0:44:28.740 for aging. He was the minister for health, and so 0:44:28.739 --> 0:44:33.190 we worked closely together in professionally. We got along fine. 0:44:33.200 --> 0:44:37.010 We have different perspectives on a number of social issues, 0:44:38.140 --> 0:44:40.600 and so we're not as close, obviously. 0:44:40.989 --> 0:44:44.830 And then when Tony lost the support of the party room, 0:44:44.840 --> 0:44:47.800 he took it pretty hard 0:44:48.290 --> 0:44:51.640 and blamed a lot of people, and I think I 0:44:51.640 --> 0:44:52.910 was included in that group. 0:44:53.489 --> 0:44:54.509 I 0:44:55.090 --> 0:44:58.540 didn't ever undermine Tony. I never leaked against him. 0:44:58.989 --> 0:45:00.310 I was 0:45:00.790 --> 0:45:04.810 a deputy as competently and as effectively as I could be. 0:45:05.489 --> 0:45:09.529 But politics can be a very tough, tough game, and 0:45:09.540 --> 0:45:12.209 people get disappointed about a whole range of things 0:45:12.690 --> 0:45:15.790 when you're the deputy to a leader who you aren't 0:45:15.800 --> 0:45:19.620 aligned with, perhaps on things like same sex marriage, perhaps 0:45:19.620 --> 0:45:22.410 their beliefs about women. How do you manage that? 0:45:22.790 --> 0:45:25.779 You respect that. Your views are different. You respect their 0:45:25.780 --> 0:45:28.290 views if they are honestly held and hope that they 0:45:28.300 --> 0:45:30.609 respect your views that are honestly held. 0:45:31.690 --> 0:45:35.460 But you can't expect to in the leadership team to 0:45:35.460 --> 0:45:37.569 have the same view on the same issues. The Liberal 0:45:37.570 --> 0:45:41.219 Party attracts people across a broad spectrum. John Howard always 0:45:41.219 --> 0:45:43.890 called it a broad church, and people have different views, 0:45:43.890 --> 0:45:47.710 different experiences, different perspectives and philosophies and values. 0:45:48.090 --> 0:45:49.610 And so you 0:45:49.989 --> 0:45:52.720 work with that. You don't 0:45:53.290 --> 0:45:54.150 resent it. 0:45:54.590 --> 0:45:58.040 If you think it's worth advocating a change in position, 0:45:58.050 --> 0:46:00.020 you can give advice. But at the end of the day, 0:46:00.020 --> 0:46:01.600 everybody's responsible for their own 0:46:02.380 --> 0:46:04.650 position and own stance and 0:46:05.880 --> 0:46:09.290 own views on things. So I didn't ever see it 0:46:09.290 --> 0:46:12.360 as a problem that I had different views to the leader. 0:46:12.360 --> 0:46:14.399 In fact, in some ways it was probably good because 0:46:14.400 --> 0:46:15.900 it reflected the differences 0:46:16.680 --> 0:46:17.760 across the Liberal Party. 0:46:17.770 --> 0:46:20.870 Do you have to make those challenges or put forward 0:46:20.870 --> 0:46:24.009 those counter arguments behind closed doors? 0:46:24.210 --> 0:46:27.489 Well, generally, that's what leadership meetings and cabinet and party 0:46:27.489 --> 0:46:30.300 room meetings are for. The party room is not as 0:46:30.300 --> 0:46:32.100 confidential as one would like, but 0:46:32.280 --> 0:46:35.370 most certainly leadership meetings in Cabinet meetings are an opportunity 0:46:35.370 --> 0:46:37.690 to put different points of view, and that's important. You 0:46:37.690 --> 0:46:41.350 have to have robust debates and challenge ideas and challenge 0:46:41.350 --> 0:46:44.400 people's positions. So you get the best outcomes, and I 0:46:44.400 --> 0:46:47.410 think that if you have a party full of yes, 0:46:47.410 --> 0:46:49.550 men or women, then you're not getting the best outcomes. 0:46:49.550 --> 0:46:53.640 You've got to have the debate about issues and values 0:46:53.640 --> 0:46:54.320 and ideas 0:46:54.330 --> 0:46:57.000 just to finish up your last day, 0:46:57.080 --> 0:47:00.050 you had quite a lot of time to think about 0:47:00.050 --> 0:47:01.810 what you're going to say, what you're going to wear. 0:47:01.820 --> 0:47:04.029 A lot of people said you were white to represent 0:47:04.030 --> 0:47:05.000 the suffragettes. 0:47:06.280 --> 0:47:09.900 There is symbolism in what you wear as a public 0:47:09.900 --> 0:47:13.000 figure without doubt, and I'm conscious of that. I don't 0:47:13.380 --> 0:47:16.160 get up in the morning and think Now, what statement 0:47:16.160 --> 0:47:19.100 shall I make today? Therefore I choose that. 0:47:19.680 --> 0:47:21.410 But I wanted him. 0:47:22.180 --> 0:47:24.480 I wanted to wear something that was fresh and bright 0:47:24.480 --> 0:47:25.990 and didn't meld into the 0:47:26.380 --> 0:47:29.910 green of the House of Representatives. Ugly, ugly green. 0:47:30.280 --> 0:47:33.590 Well, it's sort of a Tasmanian blue gum green, isn't it? 0:47:33.600 --> 0:47:34.820 How did you feel 0:47:34.820 --> 0:47:36.280 when you got up and spoke for about eight 0:47:36.280 --> 0:47:36.950 minutes? 0:47:37.780 --> 0:47:41.629 I had told the prime minister just prior to question 0:47:41.630 --> 0:47:43.600 time that I intended to 0:47:43.980 --> 0:47:45.989 announced that I wouldn't re contest the seat, 0:47:46.380 --> 0:47:47.300 I told the 0:47:47.980 --> 0:47:50.270 speaker of the House, and he said that he would 0:47:50.270 --> 0:47:51.910 give me time after question time. 0:47:52.280 --> 0:47:53.830 I thought the timing was right, 0:47:54.280 --> 0:47:55.710 and I 0:47:56.380 --> 0:47:59.709 simply made the announcement. It wasn't a valedictory. I didn't 0:47:59.710 --> 0:48:00.489 want to do the 0:48:00.870 --> 0:48:05.719 you know the legacy and and the perhaps somewhat self 0:48:05.719 --> 0:48:10.470 indulgent speech about what I'd achieved in my public life. 0:48:10.469 --> 0:48:12.960 I just wanted to say simply, thank you, that it 0:48:12.960 --> 0:48:15.270 had been an honor and a privilege, and I was 0:48:15.280 --> 0:48:17.990 a fortunate person to have been able to serve in 0:48:17.989 --> 0:48:18.290 the 0:48:18.670 --> 0:48:21.490 House of Representatives. Not many people get to do that 0:48:21.969 --> 0:48:22.589 in 0:48:23.170 --> 0:48:26.200 history. And so I was 0:48:26.870 --> 0:48:30.090 very. I felt very proud of what I've achieved and 0:48:30.090 --> 0:48:31.400 the fact that I 0:48:31.770 --> 0:48:34.529 fulfilled a dream, and that was to be Australia's foreign minister. 0:48:34.560 --> 0:48:36.120 You've got a standing ovation. 0:48:37.360 --> 0:48:38.670 I was very touched by that. 0:48:38.730 --> 0:48:40.200 But you didn't stick around 0:48:40.670 --> 0:48:41.870 well, it 0:48:41.870 --> 0:48:45.439 wasn't a valedictory, so I have made my announcement. And 0:48:45.440 --> 0:48:48.350 then I thought, It's time for me to go and 0:48:48.360 --> 0:48:50.970 I didn't appreciate that either the prime minister or the 0:48:50.969 --> 0:48:52.760 leader of the opposition was going to say, you know, 0:48:52.760 --> 0:48:55.560 we're going to stand and say something. Nobody told me 0:48:55.560 --> 0:48:57.140 that they were going to speak, so I was back 0:48:57.140 --> 0:48:58.700 in my office then. Whoops. 0:48:58.969 --> 0:49:00.020 They're all on TV. I 0:49:00.020 --> 0:49:02.660 mean, you said you felt relieved and all of those things. 0:49:02.770 --> 0:49:04.290 What's next? 0:49:04.770 --> 0:49:06.589 I will assist in 0:49:06.969 --> 0:49:11.400 campaigning in western Australia, and perhaps something in Victoria, 0:49:11.940 --> 0:49:13.790 and then I'll start 0:49:14.370 --> 0:49:19.640 considering options. People have been very generous with offers and proposals. 0:49:19.650 --> 0:49:22.400 I hope to do something in the private sector, maybe 0:49:22.400 --> 0:49:25.680 in academia, and most certainly will continue in philanthropic and 0:49:25.690 --> 0:49:27.200 charitable roles 0:49:27.670 --> 0:49:31.700 and a whole basket of things. And I want to 0:49:31.700 --> 0:49:32.589 keep very busy. 0:49:33.170 --> 0:49:35.980 I'm sure I will and do a whole range of 0:49:35.980 --> 0:49:37.400 things that have, 0:49:38.070 --> 0:49:38.490 um, 0:49:38.870 --> 0:49:42.330 the ability to drive my energy and passion. 0:49:42.770 --> 0:49:44.350 So I'm looking forward to it with a great deal 0:49:44.350 --> 0:49:46.700 of optimism and excitement, even 0:49:48.370 --> 0:49:52.160 thanks for listening to no filter. After we recorded that chat, 0:49:52.170 --> 0:49:54.859 Julie came straight out into the mom and their office 0:49:54.860 --> 0:49:57.669 and was an enormously good sport for all the selfies 0:49:57.670 --> 0:50:01.050 we wanted to take. In fact, she directed the selfies. 0:50:01.050 --> 0:50:03.810 She's very good at it. She gathered us all together 0:50:03.810 --> 0:50:05.989 in a group they were about, I don't know, 50 0:50:05.989 --> 0:50:07.950 of us that all wanted our photo taken 0:50:08.260 --> 0:50:12.320 and she was like, You move over here, you're getting 0:50:12.320 --> 0:50:14.640 closer over there. And she sat down on the floor 0:50:14.640 --> 0:50:17.549 in those incredibly beautiful high heels that she was wearing. 0:50:17.560 --> 0:50:20.490 And she's just an absolute delight, 0:50:20.860 --> 0:50:24.489 So it'll be really interesting to see what she does next. 0:50:25.160 --> 0:50:28.380 Next week, on No Filter, David Gillespie joins me to 0:50:28.380 --> 0:50:31.489 talk about the way in which screen addiction is rewiring 0:50:31.489 --> 0:50:34.630 the brains of a generation and what we can do 0:50:34.630 --> 0:50:38.200 about it. If you liked hearing that conversation with Julie 0:50:38.200 --> 0:50:41.779 and want more Australian politics and news and current affairs 0:50:41.860 --> 0:50:45.200 and really the stories behind all of those things, 0:50:45.460 --> 0:50:49.400 listen to our episode of our daily Show, the quickie 0:50:49.410 --> 0:50:53.070 about whether or not the Liberal Party have a woman problem. 0:50:53.080 --> 0:50:57.359 Spoiler alert. They do search the quickie liberal in your 0:50:57.360 --> 0:51:00.420 podcast app will follow the links in our show Notes. 0:51:00.430 --> 0:51:04.569 No filter is produced by Eliza Ratliff. I'm Mayor Friedman, 0:51:04.660 --> 0:51:06.690 and I'll see you on Mamma Mia. 0:51:07.160 --> 0:51:07.379 Yeah.