1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:00,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, 2 00:00:01,840 --> 00:00:05,620 Speaker 1: judge me on what I do. I don't label myself 3 00:00:05,630 --> 00:00:08,410 Speaker 1: a lot of things, but it doesn't mean that I'm 4 00:00:08,410 --> 00:00:10,990 Speaker 1: how unhappy or uncomfortable if other people say, Oh, Julie 5 00:00:10,990 --> 00:00:15,460 Speaker 1: is a feminist because she supports equal opportunity and gender equality. 6 00:00:15,470 --> 00:00:18,190 Speaker 1: What about? Look at what I do as opposed to 7 00:00:18,190 --> 00:00:20,160 Speaker 1: how I self describe 8 00:00:20,340 --> 00:00:23,209 Speaker 2: from Mamma Mia, I'm Mia Freedman and you're listening to 9 00:00:23,210 --> 00:00:23,959 Speaker 2: no filter 10 00:00:24,040 --> 00:00:26,159 Speaker 2: counted conversations that count. 11 00:00:27,040 --> 00:00:30,150 Speaker 2: Julie Bishop hasn't been a private citizen for 20 years, 12 00:00:30,180 --> 00:00:32,460 Speaker 2: but a few hours after this interview was recorded, 13 00:00:32,840 --> 00:00:35,450 Speaker 2: that changed because an election was called 14 00:00:36,040 --> 00:00:38,699 Speaker 2: as the member for curtain. She had been the deputy 15 00:00:38,700 --> 00:00:41,440 Speaker 2: leader of the Liberal Party for 11 years under three 16 00:00:41,440 --> 00:00:44,340 Speaker 2: different leaders, and for the past few years she'd been 17 00:00:44,340 --> 00:00:46,150 Speaker 2: the foreign minister of Australia. 18 00:00:46,540 --> 00:00:48,420 Speaker 2: She was the first woman to serve in either of 19 00:00:48,420 --> 00:00:51,519 Speaker 2: those roles, and people on all sides pretty much agree 20 00:00:51,530 --> 00:00:52,960 Speaker 2: that she did a kick ass job. 21 00:00:53,440 --> 00:00:57,720 Speaker 2: There was terrorist attacks, Bali executions, the shooting down of 22 00:00:57,720 --> 00:01:02,670 Speaker 2: Malaysian Airlines flight MH 17, an Ebola outbreak and, of course, 23 00:01:02,680 --> 00:01:06,690 Speaker 2: a few rounds of prime ministerial musical chairs. Isn't that 24 00:01:06,690 --> 00:01:07,450 Speaker 2: a fun game? 25 00:01:08,040 --> 00:01:10,300 Speaker 2: She is a woman who loves fashion as much as politics. 26 00:01:10,300 --> 00:01:13,160 Speaker 2: And she sees no problem when the two things collide. 27 00:01:13,640 --> 00:01:15,970 Speaker 2: Like that time, she wore a pair of tailored shorts 28 00:01:15,980 --> 00:01:18,759 Speaker 2: with a matching jacket to meet with the mayor of London. 29 00:01:19,340 --> 00:01:21,979 Speaker 2: Well, the killer Red Heels with sparkles she wore on 30 00:01:21,980 --> 00:01:23,950 Speaker 2: the day she announced she would be stepping down as 31 00:01:23,950 --> 00:01:26,560 Speaker 2: foreign minister and moving to the back bench, 32 00:01:27,340 --> 00:01:30,330 Speaker 2: you might remember that difficult decision came after a particularly 33 00:01:30,330 --> 00:01:33,740 Speaker 2: bruising episode of the Parliament House reality show, where the 34 00:01:33,740 --> 00:01:37,149 Speaker 2: Liberal Party decided to play Knife the leader yet again. 35 00:01:37,740 --> 00:01:40,330 Speaker 2: When Malcolm Turnbull stood down, Julie put up her hand 36 00:01:40,330 --> 00:01:44,160 Speaker 2: to run for PM along with Scott Morrison and Peter Dutton. 37 00:01:44,170 --> 00:01:47,179 Speaker 2: But she was knocked out fairly brutally in the first 38 00:01:47,180 --> 00:01:50,930 Speaker 2: round as a result of some pretty disappointing backroom deals 39 00:01:50,940 --> 00:01:53,570 Speaker 2: that we all learned about via a leaked group chat 40 00:01:53,580 --> 00:01:55,710 Speaker 2: between many of her fellow MPs. 41 00:01:56,240 --> 00:01:58,550 Speaker 2: It was messy and disloyal 42 00:01:58,940 --> 00:02:02,760 Speaker 2: and a deeply anti climactic end to a glittering career 43 00:02:02,760 --> 00:02:03,610 Speaker 2: in politics. 44 00:02:04,140 --> 00:02:06,560 Speaker 2: Not that Julie ever said that publicly. None of it. 45 00:02:06,940 --> 00:02:09,650 Speaker 2: She's worked through some of Australia's ugliest moments, both in 46 00:02:09,650 --> 00:02:13,579 Speaker 2: Canberra and around the world, with her signature class and style. 47 00:02:13,620 --> 00:02:17,160 Speaker 2: She's always always toed the party line, 48 00:02:17,639 --> 00:02:18,149 Speaker 2: but now 49 00:02:18,639 --> 00:02:19,560 Speaker 2: she doesn't have to. 50 00:02:19,940 --> 00:02:22,520 Speaker 2: Now she can say whatever she wants. However she wants 51 00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:24,049 Speaker 2: to hear is Julie Bishop 52 00:02:24,440 --> 00:02:27,190 Speaker 2: Julie. We're both sitting here in our white shirts. We're 53 00:02:27,190 --> 00:02:29,620 Speaker 2: all sitting here. Actually, everyone in the studio is wearing 54 00:02:29,620 --> 00:02:32,230 Speaker 2: a white shirt. What's the significance 55 00:02:32,240 --> 00:02:35,260 Speaker 1: today? We launched the 2019 56 00:02:35,740 --> 00:02:40,270 Speaker 1: white shirt campaign and which we donate 100% of the 57 00:02:40,270 --> 00:02:44,139 Speaker 1: gross proceeds of the sale of white shirts to ovarian 58 00:02:44,139 --> 00:02:47,350 Speaker 1: cancer Research and the foundation set up to 59 00:02:48,040 --> 00:02:52,460 Speaker 1: develop an early stage detection test because there isn't one 60 00:02:52,460 --> 00:02:57,160 Speaker 1: for ovarian cancer because there's no early symptoms, no warning. 61 00:02:57,639 --> 00:03:01,280 Speaker 1: Most women are diagnosed at advanced stages, and so the 62 00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:03,520 Speaker 1: death rate is high compared with other cancers. 63 00:03:03,530 --> 00:03:06,049 Speaker 2: Compared to, say, when you first came into Parliament in 64 00:03:06,050 --> 00:03:11,010 Speaker 2: 1998 how much more understanding and awareness around women's health 65 00:03:11,010 --> 00:03:13,310 Speaker 2: issues Do you think there is in Canberra 66 00:03:13,310 --> 00:03:17,100 Speaker 1: these days so much more? It's a dramatic difference, 67 00:03:17,440 --> 00:03:20,600 Speaker 1: and it's taken some rather tragic events, like the death 68 00:03:20,600 --> 00:03:23,650 Speaker 1: of Senator Jeannie Ferris. She died of ovarian cancer 69 00:03:24,040 --> 00:03:27,150 Speaker 1: to really focus people's attention on it. That's why it's 70 00:03:27,150 --> 00:03:29,950 Speaker 1: so important to have more women in Parliament, more women 71 00:03:29,950 --> 00:03:33,970 Speaker 1: in the decision making forums around the world because we 72 00:03:33,970 --> 00:03:37,400 Speaker 1: do have a different experience, a different perspective. And issues 73 00:03:37,400 --> 00:03:38,650 Speaker 1: like women's health 74 00:03:39,340 --> 00:03:42,450 Speaker 1: are raised by women. Men, of course, understand. But in 75 00:03:42,450 --> 00:03:43,750 Speaker 1: terms of a priority, 76 00:03:44,240 --> 00:03:47,410 Speaker 1: women's health has tended to be a secondary issue. Now 77 00:03:47,420 --> 00:03:50,010 Speaker 1: it's a primary issue. It's a priority, and I was 78 00:03:50,010 --> 00:03:52,940 Speaker 1: delighted to see the government provide more money. In fact, 79 00:03:52,950 --> 00:03:55,470 Speaker 1: I think since we came to office, about 33 million 80 00:03:55,480 --> 00:03:59,720 Speaker 1: had been dedicated to ovarian cancer research. And that's why 81 00:03:59,720 --> 00:04:02,390 Speaker 1: I'm so keen to do more. The government can't do 82 00:04:02,390 --> 00:04:02,860 Speaker 1: it all. 83 00:04:02,940 --> 00:04:04,760 Speaker 1: The community also has to 84 00:04:05,040 --> 00:04:08,310 Speaker 1: dig in and support women who have this cancer. 85 00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:11,060 Speaker 2: What's life like on the outside? Now 86 00:04:11,640 --> 00:04:13,050 Speaker 2: I noticed you said, Way 87 00:04:13,640 --> 00:04:16,550 Speaker 2: is that Is that going to take a while to change? 88 00:04:16,560 --> 00:04:18,570 Speaker 1: I guess it will. I've been in politics for 20 89 00:04:18,570 --> 00:04:20,839 Speaker 1: years now, so I've been saying we for a very 90 00:04:20,839 --> 00:04:23,260 Speaker 1: long time, sort of like the royal family we 91 00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:26,060 Speaker 1: But I had my last day in Parliament, 92 00:04:26,440 --> 00:04:32,560 Speaker 1: and it was a mix of emotions, sadness, pride, relief 93 00:04:33,040 --> 00:04:36,560 Speaker 1: and excitement about what may lie ahead. So I had 94 00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:39,419 Speaker 1: a 20 year legal career, a 20 year political career. 95 00:04:39,420 --> 00:04:42,460 Speaker 1: Now I'm looking for another 20 year career in a 96 00:04:42,470 --> 00:04:43,960 Speaker 1: whole range of different areas. 97 00:04:44,440 --> 00:04:46,470 Speaker 2: You mentioned a lot of emotions that you had on 98 00:04:46,470 --> 00:04:49,030 Speaker 2: that last day, and I watched your speech and I 99 00:04:49,029 --> 00:04:50,929 Speaker 2: watched it again today before you came in. 100 00:04:50,940 --> 00:04:53,460 Speaker 1: It has been an immense honor 101 00:04:53,839 --> 00:04:57,050 Speaker 1: to be the longest serving member for Curtain 102 00:04:57,839 --> 00:05:01,460 Speaker 1: and also to be the deputy leader of the Liberal Party, 103 00:05:01,839 --> 00:05:05,690 Speaker 1: the first female to hold the role for 11 years, 104 00:05:05,700 --> 00:05:08,650 Speaker 1: over half my entire political career. 105 00:05:09,640 --> 00:05:11,859 Speaker 1: And I'm also proud of the fact that I am 106 00:05:11,860 --> 00:05:15,740 Speaker 1: the first woman to contest the leadership ballot of the 107 00:05:15,740 --> 00:05:18,740 Speaker 1: Liberal Party in its 75 year history. 108 00:05:18,830 --> 00:05:19,260 Speaker 2: And 109 00:05:20,040 --> 00:05:21,060 Speaker 2: I felt better 110 00:05:22,240 --> 00:05:25,750 Speaker 2: when I watched you. You would never say that because 111 00:05:25,750 --> 00:05:29,080 Speaker 2: you're far too classy. But I watched that and I 112 00:05:29,080 --> 00:05:31,570 Speaker 2: felt angry, and I felt resentful. And I felt beat 113 00:05:31,570 --> 00:05:32,159 Speaker 2: up that 114 00:05:33,540 --> 00:05:38,080 Speaker 2: you are such an extraordinary woman, and you would have 115 00:05:38,080 --> 00:05:41,090 Speaker 2: made such an extraordinary prime minister and you never got 116 00:05:41,089 --> 00:05:41,849 Speaker 2: that chance. 117 00:05:42,740 --> 00:05:47,700 Speaker 1: My opportunity came in unexpected circumstances last year. I would 118 00:05:47,700 --> 00:05:51,760 Speaker 1: never have challenged a leader from the position as deputy 119 00:05:52,140 --> 00:05:55,410 Speaker 1: and so I served under a number of leaders. But 120 00:05:55,410 --> 00:05:55,860 Speaker 1: when 121 00:05:56,540 --> 00:06:00,180 Speaker 1: circumstances changed, to the extent that Malcolm Turnbull wasn't going 122 00:06:00,180 --> 00:06:00,950 Speaker 1: to run again 123 00:06:01,540 --> 00:06:04,810 Speaker 1: and there were two candidates in Peter Dutton and Scott Morrison, 124 00:06:04,820 --> 00:06:07,830 Speaker 1: I felt a real responsibility to put my name forward. 125 00:06:07,830 --> 00:06:11,320 Speaker 1: So the party room had other options, and I've been 126 00:06:11,320 --> 00:06:13,740 Speaker 1: the deputy for 11 years, and I've been foreign minister 127 00:06:13,740 --> 00:06:16,770 Speaker 1: for five years. I've been a Cabinet minister under John 128 00:06:16,770 --> 00:06:18,760 Speaker 1: Howard under Tony Abbott under 129 00:06:19,140 --> 00:06:22,030 Speaker 1: Malcolm Turnbull. So I thought I had the experience. And obviously, 130 00:06:22,029 --> 00:06:23,589 Speaker 1: you don't put your name forward if you think you're 131 00:06:23,589 --> 00:06:25,830 Speaker 1: going to lose. Nor do you put your name forward 132 00:06:25,830 --> 00:06:27,560 Speaker 1: if you think you'd lose the election. 133 00:06:27,940 --> 00:06:28,750 Speaker 1: So 134 00:06:29,339 --> 00:06:30,260 Speaker 1: I 135 00:06:30,940 --> 00:06:31,660 Speaker 1: put my hand up 136 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:36,659 Speaker 1: the party room obviously saw otherwise, and I respect that. 137 00:06:36,670 --> 00:06:38,779 Speaker 1: I've been a member of that party room for 20 years, 138 00:06:38,779 --> 00:06:42,260 Speaker 1: so you have to respect the views of your colleagues. 139 00:06:42,940 --> 00:06:44,050 Speaker 1: But I thought that 140 00:06:44,440 --> 00:06:47,940 Speaker 1: that then made me reassess how much longer I wanted 141 00:06:47,940 --> 00:06:48,920 Speaker 1: to be in politics. 142 00:06:49,339 --> 00:06:52,099 Speaker 1: And so I didn't cause a by election. I stayed. 143 00:06:52,100 --> 00:06:53,659 Speaker 1: I went on to the back bench and let the 144 00:06:53,660 --> 00:06:55,060 Speaker 1: new team get on with 145 00:06:55,540 --> 00:06:56,650 Speaker 1: being the new government. 146 00:06:57,240 --> 00:06:59,979 Speaker 1: And then over that period of time, I thought long 147 00:06:59,980 --> 00:07:01,659 Speaker 1: and hard about what I wanted to do. 148 00:07:02,240 --> 00:07:04,430 Speaker 1: And then I met a number of people who said 149 00:07:04,430 --> 00:07:06,320 Speaker 1: that if I were not standing at the next election, 150 00:07:06,320 --> 00:07:08,770 Speaker 1: they would run for the seat of curtain. And I thought, 151 00:07:08,779 --> 00:07:11,570 Speaker 1: Now is the time to leave. So it's a time 152 00:07:11,570 --> 00:07:13,550 Speaker 1: of my choosing on my terms, 153 00:07:13,940 --> 00:07:17,710 Speaker 1: and there's no point in feeling bitter. You just have 154 00:07:17,710 --> 00:07:20,210 Speaker 1: to be positive about the future. And so I don't 155 00:07:20,210 --> 00:07:23,340 Speaker 1: look back. I don't do regrets. I don't do recrimination. 156 00:07:23,350 --> 00:07:26,270 Speaker 1: I just say, Okay, now it's time for the next 157 00:07:26,270 --> 00:07:26,750 Speaker 1: chapter 158 00:07:27,240 --> 00:07:30,550 Speaker 2: you've been through. You've been in Parliament through I think 159 00:07:30,550 --> 00:07:34,540 Speaker 2: it's five leadership changes or changes of prime minister in 160 00:07:34,540 --> 00:07:37,190 Speaker 2: the system. Yes, there's so many. I've spoken to a 161 00:07:37,190 --> 00:07:40,280 Speaker 2: lot of journalists about what that time is like around 162 00:07:40,280 --> 00:07:45,370 Speaker 2: a leadership change and spills. What's it like when you're inside? 163 00:07:45,370 --> 00:07:47,430 Speaker 2: What's it like when it's happening to people who are 164 00:07:47,430 --> 00:07:50,160 Speaker 2: your colleagues and your friends and you're involved? 165 00:07:50,540 --> 00:07:50,740 Speaker 1: Yeah, 166 00:07:51,140 --> 00:07:55,690 Speaker 1: I witnessed it first on the Labour side when Kevin 167 00:07:56,340 --> 00:08:00,260 Speaker 1: was challenged by Julia Gillard, and it was 168 00:08:00,640 --> 00:08:05,050 Speaker 1: morbidly fascinating to watch a party tear itself apart. 169 00:08:05,440 --> 00:08:07,520 Speaker 1: I did never think it would happen to us because 170 00:08:07,520 --> 00:08:09,700 Speaker 1: I assume that I've done it again us, 171 00:08:10,940 --> 00:08:14,220 Speaker 1: because I assume that it took such a toll on 172 00:08:14,220 --> 00:08:15,160 Speaker 1: the Labour Party. 173 00:08:15,640 --> 00:08:18,880 Speaker 1: But then they changed again. They got rid of Julia 174 00:08:18,880 --> 00:08:22,700 Speaker 1: Gillard and installed Kevin, so it became the norm. It 175 00:08:22,700 --> 00:08:23,760 Speaker 1: set a benchmark 176 00:08:24,240 --> 00:08:27,920 Speaker 1: and very low benchmark indeed. And then 177 00:08:28,640 --> 00:08:31,810 Speaker 1: I served under Tony Abbott. He was our leader into 178 00:08:31,810 --> 00:08:33,350 Speaker 1: the 2000 and 13 179 00:08:33,740 --> 00:08:34,959 Speaker 1: election that we won. 180 00:08:35,740 --> 00:08:38,439 Speaker 1: And then over time I saw that he was losing 181 00:08:38,450 --> 00:08:40,150 Speaker 1: the support of the party room 182 00:08:40,640 --> 00:08:44,140 Speaker 1: and in our political system in the Liberal Party, the 183 00:08:44,140 --> 00:08:46,359 Speaker 1: leader is chosen by the party room, 184 00:08:46,740 --> 00:08:50,770 Speaker 1: and that can be frustrating for the wider public because 185 00:08:50,780 --> 00:08:52,050 Speaker 1: they say, Well, I voted 186 00:08:52,840 --> 00:08:55,479 Speaker 1: in the Liberal Party because I wanted to see X 187 00:08:55,480 --> 00:08:57,250 Speaker 1: y Z as the prime minister, 188 00:08:57,640 --> 00:08:59,370 Speaker 1: and then the party room says, Well, we don't want 189 00:08:59,370 --> 00:09:01,620 Speaker 1: to work with this person anymore and without going to 190 00:09:01,620 --> 00:09:03,360 Speaker 1: an election will change leaders 191 00:09:03,940 --> 00:09:08,820 Speaker 1: that does cause instability. Being on the inside. It's a 192 00:09:08,830 --> 00:09:10,959 Speaker 1: very emotional time 193 00:09:11,640 --> 00:09:16,280 Speaker 1: because people are pitted against each other. It's very adversarial. 194 00:09:16,280 --> 00:09:17,160 Speaker 1: Competitive 195 00:09:17,640 --> 00:09:19,900 Speaker 1: things are said. That shouldn't be said. Things are done 196 00:09:19,900 --> 00:09:23,579 Speaker 1: that shouldn't be done. So there's a lot of turmoil involved, 197 00:09:23,590 --> 00:09:27,700 Speaker 1: which is why I recommend that parties give up changing 198 00:09:27,700 --> 00:09:31,460 Speaker 1: leaders between elections. Unless there's a very valid, 199 00:09:32,440 --> 00:09:34,450 Speaker 1: cogent, coherent reason to do so. 200 00:09:35,660 --> 00:09:38,640 Speaker 2: Some very close relationships must be formed. You know, when 201 00:09:38,640 --> 00:09:40,150 Speaker 2: you're in a party for 20 years, 202 00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:45,809 Speaker 2: how do people process the betrayal that comes around? These 203 00:09:45,809 --> 00:09:48,860 Speaker 2: leadership changes and spills because it's like you got to 204 00:09:48,860 --> 00:09:50,550 Speaker 2: pick a side and it's like I thought you were 205 00:09:50,550 --> 00:09:52,630 Speaker 2: with me and maybe you said you were with me, 206 00:09:52,630 --> 00:09:53,949 Speaker 2: but then you weren't with me. 207 00:09:54,640 --> 00:09:56,880 Speaker 2: There was some text messages and WhatsApp Group that you 208 00:09:56,880 --> 00:09:59,970 Speaker 2: found out about afterwards that must have been absolutely devastating 209 00:09:59,980 --> 00:10:01,559 Speaker 2: on a bunch of levels. 210 00:10:01,940 --> 00:10:05,170 Speaker 2: Does it make you question who really, ever was your 211 00:10:05,170 --> 00:10:06,500 Speaker 2: friend or colleague? 212 00:10:06,510 --> 00:10:09,050 Speaker 1: Or sadly, Politics has a name for that, 213 00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:14,750 Speaker 1: for betrayal, for conflict between people who 214 00:10:15,840 --> 00:10:18,410 Speaker 1: others presumed with colleagues or, indeed, they may well have 215 00:10:18,410 --> 00:10:20,970 Speaker 1: presumed it. Was it Paul Keating. That said, If you 216 00:10:20,970 --> 00:10:24,380 Speaker 1: want a friend in politics by a dog, there's a 217 00:10:24,380 --> 00:10:26,589 Speaker 1: certain amount of truth in that, but I've also made 218 00:10:26,590 --> 00:10:29,250 Speaker 1: friends in politics that I suspect will be friends for life. 219 00:10:29,840 --> 00:10:31,250 Speaker 1: It's difficult 220 00:10:32,340 --> 00:10:36,990 Speaker 1: and it takes you some time to understand that this 221 00:10:36,990 --> 00:10:38,360 Speaker 1: is the way it's played. 222 00:10:39,040 --> 00:10:42,340 Speaker 1: But of course you can still be hurt and frustrated 223 00:10:42,340 --> 00:10:45,350 Speaker 1: and angry. But there's no point, because that's the way 224 00:10:45,350 --> 00:10:46,150 Speaker 1: it is. And 225 00:10:46,540 --> 00:10:47,459 Speaker 1: politics 226 00:10:47,840 --> 00:10:50,150 Speaker 1: in Australia has been a system 227 00:10:50,840 --> 00:10:51,260 Speaker 1: built 228 00:10:51,740 --> 00:10:56,960 Speaker 1: by men because for the last 100 years since federation, 229 00:10:57,940 --> 00:11:00,160 Speaker 1: the majority of parliamentarians have been 230 00:11:00,540 --> 00:11:04,679 Speaker 1: male and so it's very adversarial and it reflects the 231 00:11:04,679 --> 00:11:07,450 Speaker 1: way men see the world. It's only in more recent 232 00:11:07,450 --> 00:11:10,870 Speaker 1: years that women have become involved in politics, so the 233 00:11:10,870 --> 00:11:12,960 Speaker 1: culture is very male, 234 00:11:13,540 --> 00:11:15,060 Speaker 1: and I think that that has 235 00:11:15,540 --> 00:11:16,959 Speaker 1: a fair amount to do with it. 236 00:11:16,970 --> 00:11:19,929 Speaker 2: You said. You've been in cabinets where there are a 237 00:11:19,929 --> 00:11:22,280 Speaker 2: number of women and when you've been the only woman, 238 00:11:22,290 --> 00:11:24,660 Speaker 2: and you said that you've noticed that the behavior of 239 00:11:24,660 --> 00:11:25,950 Speaker 2: the Cabinet is very different. 240 00:11:26,540 --> 00:11:28,160 Speaker 2: Can you explain the differences 241 00:11:28,740 --> 00:11:30,570 Speaker 1: well, I think a number of women would relate to 242 00:11:30,570 --> 00:11:32,309 Speaker 1: this if they have been the only woman in a 243 00:11:32,309 --> 00:11:35,960 Speaker 1: boardroom or in a meeting, and I was in cabinet. 244 00:11:36,340 --> 00:11:39,110 Speaker 1: If you're the only female voice in a room of, say, 245 00:11:39,120 --> 00:11:40,750 Speaker 1: 2030 males. 246 00:11:41,140 --> 00:11:42,960 Speaker 1: They tend not to hear you. 247 00:11:43,440 --> 00:11:45,290 Speaker 1: I called it gender deafness, 248 00:11:45,940 --> 00:11:49,820 Speaker 1: and I don't know what it is, but you struggled 249 00:11:49,820 --> 00:11:52,819 Speaker 1: to be heard, even if what you're saying is original 250 00:11:52,830 --> 00:11:55,150 Speaker 1: or different or controversial, 251 00:11:55,540 --> 00:11:56,760 Speaker 1: outrageous. Even 252 00:11:57,340 --> 00:11:58,660 Speaker 1: there seems to be a 253 00:11:59,040 --> 00:12:01,329 Speaker 1: glossing over and they move on to the next opinion. 254 00:12:01,330 --> 00:12:03,829 Speaker 1: And then somebody can say precisely what you said 255 00:12:04,340 --> 00:12:06,720 Speaker 1: and the men were. So yeah, that's a good idea. 256 00:12:06,720 --> 00:12:09,260 Speaker 1: Let's go with X Y Z view. 257 00:12:10,140 --> 00:12:13,570 Speaker 1: And yet, when other women are around the room, women 258 00:12:13,570 --> 00:12:17,530 Speaker 1: tend to. Most women tend to support the other woman, saying, 259 00:12:17,540 --> 00:12:20,160 Speaker 1: Hang on, Did you just hear what she said 260 00:12:20,540 --> 00:12:21,950 Speaker 1: and bring attention to it? 261 00:12:22,440 --> 00:12:23,960 Speaker 1: I also think that 262 00:12:24,540 --> 00:12:26,660 Speaker 1: women's perspectives are so important 263 00:12:27,540 --> 00:12:30,260 Speaker 1: and you have to have more women around these 264 00:12:30,640 --> 00:12:33,660 Speaker 1: boardroom tables and cabinet tables and decision making forums. 265 00:12:34,040 --> 00:12:37,050 Speaker 1: They bring a different perspective, a different view, a different 266 00:12:37,050 --> 00:12:37,679 Speaker 1: experience 267 00:12:38,140 --> 00:12:43,970 Speaker 1: and without over generalizing. Women do have different leadership style 268 00:12:43,980 --> 00:12:46,260 Speaker 1: to men they do. We're much more 269 00:12:46,740 --> 00:12:50,740 Speaker 1: transformational were much more focused on the impact on the 270 00:12:50,740 --> 00:12:52,030 Speaker 1: individual we build. What do 271 00:12:52,030 --> 00:12:53,460 Speaker 2: you mean by transformational? 272 00:12:53,490 --> 00:12:58,559 Speaker 1: Well, we build teams by working with individuals whereas men 273 00:12:59,240 --> 00:13:03,130 Speaker 1: a much more transactional the teams put together. They hold 274 00:13:03,130 --> 00:13:04,160 Speaker 1: the team to account 275 00:13:04,640 --> 00:13:08,410 Speaker 1: the far less empathetic to the individual needs, whereas women 276 00:13:08,410 --> 00:13:09,650 Speaker 1: focused very much on 277 00:13:10,140 --> 00:13:12,990 Speaker 1: the empathy behind what's happening. 278 00:13:12,990 --> 00:13:14,260 Speaker 2: Emotional intelligence, 279 00:13:14,270 --> 00:13:16,580 Speaker 1: all of the situation. And I've seen it, not just 280 00:13:16,580 --> 00:13:19,349 Speaker 1: in politics. I've seen it in many scenarios. I was 281 00:13:19,840 --> 00:13:23,390 Speaker 1: partner in a major law firm for many years, and 282 00:13:23,400 --> 00:13:26,230 Speaker 1: at one point I was the only female in the 283 00:13:26,240 --> 00:13:27,250 Speaker 1: partnership meetings. 284 00:13:27,740 --> 00:13:31,030 Speaker 1: And women do bring a different perspective now. It's not 285 00:13:31,030 --> 00:13:33,650 Speaker 1: one or the other. You need both. They complement each other. 286 00:13:34,040 --> 00:13:37,760 Speaker 1: And that's why I'm speaking about encouraging more women to 287 00:13:37,760 --> 00:13:40,770 Speaker 1: come into Parliament. The processes will be different. The outcomes 288 00:13:40,770 --> 00:13:44,559 Speaker 1: will be better. Corporate. See this now? It's not just 289 00:13:45,040 --> 00:13:48,550 Speaker 1: the right thing to do. It's a smart thing to do. 290 00:13:48,940 --> 00:13:51,199 Speaker 1: Corporations can see that if you have more women in 291 00:13:51,210 --> 00:13:54,270 Speaker 1: decision making positions, your bottom line is going to be 292 00:13:54,270 --> 00:13:54,640 Speaker 1: better 293 00:13:54,650 --> 00:13:57,830 Speaker 2: because smart business isn't it, absolutely. And it can also 294 00:13:57,830 --> 00:14:01,080 Speaker 2: be transformational for society when it comes to government. You know, 295 00:14:01,080 --> 00:14:04,309 Speaker 2: we were just talking about $30 million going to endometriosis 296 00:14:04,309 --> 00:14:05,459 Speaker 2: and ovarian cancer. 297 00:14:06,140 --> 00:14:09,830 Speaker 2: You would ask I imagine 100 men and probably 90 298 00:14:09,830 --> 00:14:12,099 Speaker 2: of them wouldn't be able to even tell you anything 299 00:14:12,100 --> 00:14:15,170 Speaker 2: about those two. Things probably wouldn't even know it. Endometriosis 300 00:14:15,170 --> 00:14:15,760 Speaker 2: was 301 00:14:16,140 --> 00:14:20,710 Speaker 1: exactly. And so you do need women around the table 302 00:14:20,710 --> 00:14:24,060 Speaker 1: around the table to explain some of these issues and say, Well, actually, 303 00:14:24,060 --> 00:14:27,360 Speaker 1: this is an issue that women feel strongly about. 304 00:14:27,840 --> 00:14:31,960 Speaker 1: And unless a man has a very strong female in 305 00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:34,780 Speaker 1: his life, he may well not know about it. So 306 00:14:34,790 --> 00:14:39,360 Speaker 1: it's just common sense reflecting community concerns. And 50% of 307 00:14:39,360 --> 00:14:40,650 Speaker 1: our population is female. 308 00:14:41,640 --> 00:14:45,660 Speaker 2: 44% of Labour Party MPs are women, 309 00:14:46,140 --> 00:14:49,260 Speaker 2: 18% of Liberal Party MPs are women. 310 00:14:50,140 --> 00:14:52,340 Speaker 2: And yet quotas is a dirty word and all the 311 00:14:52,340 --> 00:14:54,490 Speaker 2: men are there by merit. Of course, we know that 312 00:14:54,500 --> 00:14:58,240 Speaker 2: you don't have to toe that line anymore. How do 313 00:14:58,240 --> 00:14:59,050 Speaker 2: you really feel about 314 00:14:59,050 --> 00:15:02,030 Speaker 1: that? I really feel that we do need targets that 315 00:15:02,030 --> 00:15:03,110 Speaker 1: are taken seriously. 316 00:15:03,120 --> 00:15:05,030 Speaker 2: What's the difference between target and quote? 317 00:15:05,030 --> 00:15:10,060 Speaker 1: Unquote? It's mandatory, and labour don't actually adhere to a quota. 318 00:15:10,340 --> 00:15:12,560 Speaker 1: They say they do, but they don't. I've seen 319 00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:15,790 Speaker 1: when it's a woman's turn to be pre selected for 320 00:15:15,790 --> 00:15:19,010 Speaker 1: a seat, but There is a former union boss who's 321 00:15:19,010 --> 00:15:22,680 Speaker 1: looking for that seat and they'll take it so it's 322 00:15:22,690 --> 00:15:24,000 Speaker 1: not actually 323 00:15:24,010 --> 00:15:25,950 Speaker 2: targets give you a bit more wriggle room. It's like 324 00:15:25,950 --> 00:15:27,190 Speaker 2: this is our intention. 325 00:15:27,200 --> 00:15:29,940 Speaker 1: Don't hold us to it. But no, but targets taken 326 00:15:29,940 --> 00:15:31,660 Speaker 1: seriously have a great 327 00:15:32,140 --> 00:15:35,560 Speaker 1: effect. I've seen it. We did it in the Turnbull 328 00:15:35,560 --> 00:15:39,610 Speaker 1: cabinet when we decided to make it a 50% target 329 00:15:39,620 --> 00:15:42,850 Speaker 1: for all government board positions. And there are thousands of 330 00:15:42,850 --> 00:15:43,750 Speaker 1: positions in 331 00:15:44,140 --> 00:15:47,680 Speaker 1: statutory bodies and agencies and government councils that the federal 332 00:15:47,680 --> 00:15:48,510 Speaker 1: government appoints. 333 00:15:48,940 --> 00:15:54,220 Speaker 1: And we were at about maybe 40% or something, and 334 00:15:54,230 --> 00:15:57,830 Speaker 1: we made a concerted effort. We set a target of 50% 335 00:15:57,840 --> 00:16:01,150 Speaker 1: and just after I left Cabinet, we hit 50%. 336 00:16:01,540 --> 00:16:04,190 Speaker 1: What it does is it makes people much more aware 337 00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:07,750 Speaker 1: of the responsibility to find more women. 338 00:16:08,140 --> 00:16:10,120 Speaker 1: And so if a Cabinet minister came in with four 339 00:16:10,120 --> 00:16:12,140 Speaker 1: names for a position, and none of them are, women 340 00:16:12,140 --> 00:16:14,670 Speaker 1: would say, Go away and find some women and it 341 00:16:14,680 --> 00:16:17,240 Speaker 1: means they have to work harder. The women are there. 342 00:16:17,250 --> 00:16:20,180 Speaker 1: It's not about competence or merit or qualifications. The women 343 00:16:20,190 --> 00:16:23,390 Speaker 1: are there, they're willing, but you have to dig a 344 00:16:23,390 --> 00:16:25,560 Speaker 1: little bit deeper and often ask, 345 00:16:25,740 --> 00:16:28,460 Speaker 1: because women are very reluctant to put themselves forward. 346 00:16:28,540 --> 00:16:31,100 Speaker 1: Very reluctant to say I'm up for this 347 00:16:31,540 --> 00:16:34,460 Speaker 1: and so often I found, you know, I had to 348 00:16:34,460 --> 00:16:36,060 Speaker 1: make a number of appointments. I would ring a woman 349 00:16:36,060 --> 00:16:37,250 Speaker 1: and say, I love you to go on X y 350 00:16:37,250 --> 00:16:39,650 Speaker 1: z board and they'd say, Oh, do you think I'm 351 00:16:39,650 --> 00:16:42,090 Speaker 1: right for it? A man would never ask you that 352 00:16:42,100 --> 00:16:44,620 Speaker 1: and say yes or no whether they want it or not. 353 00:16:44,630 --> 00:16:45,460 Speaker 1: But women say 354 00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:48,740 Speaker 1: a little bit concerned that they might not have the qualifications, 355 00:16:48,740 --> 00:16:51,619 Speaker 1: they might not be up to the mark. So that's 356 00:16:51,620 --> 00:16:54,290 Speaker 1: why it's important for other women to support women into 357 00:16:54,290 --> 00:16:58,060 Speaker 1: these roles. So targets work the Liberal Party as a 358 00:16:58,060 --> 00:17:01,130 Speaker 1: way to go. And I've been part of a new 359 00:17:01,130 --> 00:17:03,360 Speaker 1: group in Western Australia called Emergent Women, 360 00:17:03,440 --> 00:17:06,930 Speaker 1: where we have gone out and identify young women between 361 00:17:06,930 --> 00:17:08,859 Speaker 1: about the ages of 25 40 362 00:17:09,240 --> 00:17:13,980 Speaker 1: in business in community groups in the professions, and asked 363 00:17:13,980 --> 00:17:16,540 Speaker 1: them to come along to a few events. They don't 364 00:17:16,540 --> 00:17:18,149 Speaker 1: have to join the Liberal Party, just come along and 365 00:17:18,150 --> 00:17:18,859 Speaker 1: be part of 366 00:17:19,440 --> 00:17:22,949 Speaker 1: debates on policy issues on matters of concern to them. 367 00:17:23,440 --> 00:17:26,180 Speaker 1: And we are building a pool of women so that 368 00:17:26,180 --> 00:17:29,000 Speaker 1: when a pre selection comes up, you actually have a 369 00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:31,460 Speaker 1: pool to draw from a pipeline of women who would 370 00:17:31,460 --> 00:17:34,889 Speaker 1: be ready, mentored, hopefully into what it's like to be 371 00:17:34,890 --> 00:17:35,670 Speaker 1: a politician. 372 00:17:36,040 --> 00:17:38,919 Speaker 2: It must be a pretty hard ask, though, trying to 373 00:17:38,920 --> 00:17:41,990 Speaker 2: convince women to come along and be part of the 374 00:17:41,990 --> 00:17:46,119 Speaker 2: Liberal Party. Given the last year given we've seen Kelly 375 00:17:46,119 --> 00:17:49,430 Speaker 2: Dwyer leave with ST Julia Banks claim that she was 376 00:17:49,430 --> 00:17:52,820 Speaker 2: bullied and and a small is also that that she 377 00:17:52,830 --> 00:17:54,359 Speaker 2: was subject to bullying. 378 00:17:55,140 --> 00:17:56,850 Speaker 2: You were treated really shabbily, 379 00:17:57,340 --> 00:17:59,379 Speaker 2: I believe and left. 380 00:18:00,440 --> 00:18:01,360 Speaker 2: Why 381 00:18:01,940 --> 00:18:04,159 Speaker 2: would women want to join a party that seems to 382 00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:07,030 Speaker 2: have such, in some cases, open contempt for women? And 383 00:18:07,030 --> 00:18:09,330 Speaker 2: that's certainly even at best does not seem to be 384 00:18:09,340 --> 00:18:13,859 Speaker 2: a place where a woman could thrive in a political career. Well, 385 00:18:13,869 --> 00:18:17,050 Speaker 1: I don't accept your characterization. I was the deputy leader 386 00:18:17,050 --> 00:18:17,859 Speaker 1: of the party 387 00:18:18,040 --> 00:18:22,050 Speaker 1: for 11 years, reelected time and time again by my colleagues, 388 00:18:22,050 --> 00:18:24,060 Speaker 1: so they had faith in me as the deputy 389 00:18:24,340 --> 00:18:28,070 Speaker 1: and I was appointed to my dream job, which was 390 00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:30,950 Speaker 1: Minister for foreign affairs. I couldn't have been more honored 391 00:18:30,950 --> 00:18:31,659 Speaker 1: and privileged 392 00:18:32,040 --> 00:18:35,490 Speaker 1: in a role. And so from my point of view, 393 00:18:35,500 --> 00:18:38,360 Speaker 1: women have achieved some great things in the Liberal Party. 394 00:18:38,369 --> 00:18:41,409 Speaker 1: What we need to do is encourage young people to 395 00:18:41,410 --> 00:18:46,780 Speaker 1: be interested in public office generally that men and women, 396 00:18:46,790 --> 00:18:49,050 Speaker 1: because politicians tend to be, 397 00:18:49,540 --> 00:18:50,260 Speaker 1: um, 398 00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:55,070 Speaker 1: on the nose, condemned roundly for whatever they do, whether 399 00:18:55,070 --> 00:18:58,300 Speaker 1: they're doing good things or bad things. And as a class, though, 400 00:18:58,310 --> 00:19:00,460 Speaker 1: they are not highly regarded. And so 401 00:19:00,940 --> 00:19:03,629 Speaker 1: it is one of the most important jobs in the country. 402 00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:07,869 Speaker 1: You're a legislator. You're part of making the laws that 403 00:19:07,869 --> 00:19:12,110 Speaker 1: affect our lives. So we want high quality people, people 404 00:19:12,109 --> 00:19:16,169 Speaker 1: who represent the broad spectrum of the Australian community interested 405 00:19:16,170 --> 00:19:18,790 Speaker 1: in public life. So I see it as a responsibility 406 00:19:18,790 --> 00:19:20,560 Speaker 1: of all politicians to encourage 407 00:19:20,840 --> 00:19:21,770 Speaker 1: more people 408 00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:23,260 Speaker 1: to consider 409 00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:25,860 Speaker 1: public office as part of their career path. 410 00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:27,920 Speaker 2: I don't want to do the gotcha thing and ask 411 00:19:27,920 --> 00:19:30,129 Speaker 2: you the question about feminism, but I also kind of 412 00:19:30,130 --> 00:19:33,919 Speaker 2: do not in a gotcha way. But I'm just in 2016, 413 00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:35,900 Speaker 2: you were asked, Are you feminist and you kind of 414 00:19:35,900 --> 00:19:38,260 Speaker 2: it's become this thing are your feminist, are your feminist. 415 00:19:38,270 --> 00:19:39,860 Speaker 2: And you said at the time 416 00:19:40,440 --> 00:19:43,260 Speaker 2: I'm from Western Australia and the foreign minister. 417 00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:46,070 Speaker 2: I'm a liberal, but other than that, I'm not really 418 00:19:46,070 --> 00:19:48,990 Speaker 2: into labels. Other people can call me what they want. 419 00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:50,490 Speaker 2: Is that still your view? 420 00:19:50,500 --> 00:19:54,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't understand why people keep asking me with 421 00:19:54,320 --> 00:19:55,459 Speaker 1: the greatest respect. 422 00:19:55,840 --> 00:19:59,620 Speaker 1: Judge me on what I do. I don't label myself 423 00:19:59,630 --> 00:20:00,550 Speaker 1: a lot of things, 424 00:20:01,040 --> 00:20:04,170 Speaker 1: but it doesn't mean that I'm how unhappy or uncomfortable. 425 00:20:04,170 --> 00:20:06,570 Speaker 1: If other people say, Oh, Julie is a feminist because 426 00:20:06,570 --> 00:20:11,110 Speaker 1: she supports equal opportunity and gender equality. What about? Look 427 00:20:11,109 --> 00:20:13,689 Speaker 1: at what I do and as opposed to how I 428 00:20:13,690 --> 00:20:14,660 Speaker 1: self described. 429 00:20:15,140 --> 00:20:18,290 Speaker 1: It's just not a label I've ever attached to myself. 430 00:20:18,290 --> 00:20:20,090 Speaker 1: And if I started doing it now, I think it 431 00:20:20,090 --> 00:20:20,560 Speaker 1: would be 432 00:20:20,940 --> 00:20:24,649 Speaker 1: lacking in authenticity. So the media, it's kind of a 433 00:20:24,660 --> 00:20:26,899 Speaker 1: game now. I'm not on my part, but the media say, 434 00:20:26,910 --> 00:20:29,850 Speaker 1: Are you yet feminist? And I keep saying we'll have 435 00:20:29,850 --> 00:20:32,750 Speaker 1: a look at what I do. I support women. I 436 00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:37,260 Speaker 1: focus on gender equality. I put 437 00:20:37,340 --> 00:20:39,740 Speaker 1: general quality at the heart of our foreign policy. I 438 00:20:39,740 --> 00:20:41,300 Speaker 1: directed our aid budget 439 00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:44,510 Speaker 1: to ensuring that it had a positive impact on women 440 00:20:44,510 --> 00:20:45,170 Speaker 1: and girls. 441 00:20:45,540 --> 00:20:48,210 Speaker 1: The empowerment of women and girls was a key theme 442 00:20:48,210 --> 00:20:50,619 Speaker 1: of my foreign Ministry. So 443 00:20:50,630 --> 00:20:53,830 Speaker 2: you have been and remain such a role model for 444 00:20:53,830 --> 00:20:55,350 Speaker 2: so many years in and out of 445 00:20:55,350 --> 00:20:58,570 Speaker 1: politics, not get hung up on labels. The reason I 446 00:20:58,570 --> 00:21:02,440 Speaker 1: said I'm a liberal Lima with Australian as, um, somebody 447 00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:05,850 Speaker 1: put to me, but we don't know. We don't know 448 00:21:06,140 --> 00:21:08,420 Speaker 1: enough about you. If you don't call yourself a feminist, 449 00:21:08,420 --> 00:21:10,240 Speaker 1: how do we know who you are? And I said, Well, 450 00:21:10,250 --> 00:21:12,290 Speaker 1: I can tell you I'm a liberal, so that tells 451 00:21:12,290 --> 00:21:14,740 Speaker 1: you my political views. I'm always Australian that tells you 452 00:21:14,740 --> 00:21:17,840 Speaker 1: where I'm from. Um, I've been a lawyer, and now 453 00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:19,970 Speaker 1: I'm a politician That tells you what I do. So 454 00:21:19,970 --> 00:21:23,129 Speaker 1: I was basically saying, You don't need labels. Just have 455 00:21:23,130 --> 00:21:24,669 Speaker 1: a look at what I do. 456 00:21:25,140 --> 00:21:28,369 Speaker 2: What you do is beyond reproach in terms of equality. 457 00:21:28,380 --> 00:21:31,139 Speaker 2: But when you say I'm a liberal and that's a 458 00:21:31,140 --> 00:21:36,609 Speaker 2: word that describes my politics describes me. Isn't feminism also 459 00:21:36,609 --> 00:21:40,050 Speaker 2: that I guess I call myself a feminist to say 460 00:21:40,940 --> 00:21:45,910 Speaker 2: to describe the fact that equality, gender equality and is 461 00:21:45,910 --> 00:21:47,679 Speaker 2: at the forefront of who I am and what I 462 00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:48,490 Speaker 2: stand for. 463 00:21:48,500 --> 00:21:52,030 Speaker 1: People can call themselves whatever they like. I'm perfectly relaxed. 464 00:21:52,030 --> 00:21:55,040 Speaker 1: I don't demand that other people call themselves this, that 465 00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:56,470 Speaker 1: or the other. And I don't see why people should 466 00:21:56,470 --> 00:21:59,450 Speaker 1: demand of me that I self described in a way 467 00:21:59,840 --> 00:22:00,350 Speaker 1: that 468 00:22:01,040 --> 00:22:05,070 Speaker 1: doesn't reflect my thinking. My thinking is, as a liberal, 469 00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:06,170 Speaker 1: I'm into 470 00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:10,770 Speaker 1: individual freedom and choice, and that, to me, 471 00:22:11,140 --> 00:22:12,550 Speaker 1: is about 472 00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:17,270 Speaker 1: gender equality, the freedom to choose the freedom to be. 473 00:22:17,940 --> 00:22:21,169 Speaker 1: And that's what I've sought to achieve in my time 474 00:22:21,170 --> 00:22:24,560 Speaker 1: as a as a legislator, somebody who 475 00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:27,570 Speaker 1: help make decisions on behalf of the Australian public. 476 00:22:27,609 --> 00:22:29,770 Speaker 2: I guess the reason people say Has it changed? Has 477 00:22:29,770 --> 00:22:32,770 Speaker 2: it changed? You know, I watched John Howard being interviewed 478 00:22:33,750 --> 00:22:35,420 Speaker 2: at the end of last year and had again just 479 00:22:35,420 --> 00:22:37,500 Speaker 2: saying its merit. We don't need quotas. We don't need anything. 480 00:22:37,500 --> 00:22:40,060 Speaker 2: It should just be Merritt, Merritt, Merritt, Merritt Merritt And 481 00:22:40,740 --> 00:22:42,680 Speaker 2: I don't know. I suppose the perception that you would 482 00:22:42,690 --> 00:22:46,119 Speaker 2: maybe be frustrated with that argument and not necessarily agree 483 00:22:46,119 --> 00:22:46,450 Speaker 2: with that, 484 00:22:46,450 --> 00:22:49,150 Speaker 1: But that's why I've been talking about targets. I've seen quotas, 485 00:22:49,150 --> 00:22:52,880 Speaker 1: not work. I've seen the perverse impact of quotas where 486 00:22:52,890 --> 00:22:56,510 Speaker 1: people have been appointed because they had to because there's 487 00:22:56,510 --> 00:22:59,090 Speaker 1: a quota. And that's not the right outcome either. Nobody 488 00:22:59,090 --> 00:23:02,030 Speaker 1: wants to say I'm there because they needed to fill 489 00:23:02,030 --> 00:23:02,669 Speaker 1: a quota. 490 00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:05,480 Speaker 1: No, man, no woman wants to say that. I would 491 00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:06,670 Speaker 1: have thought so. 492 00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:07,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, 493 00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:09,030 Speaker 1: yeah, 494 00:23:09,540 --> 00:23:10,040 Speaker 1: Yeah. 495 00:23:13,740 --> 00:23:17,170 Speaker 2: When you were foreign Minister, you spent 50% of your 496 00:23:17,170 --> 00:23:20,810 Speaker 2: time overseas. 25% in Canberra in 25% in 497 00:23:21,150 --> 00:23:23,290 Speaker 1: that right? I think it's about that. Yeah, that's right, 498 00:23:23,300 --> 00:23:24,139 Speaker 2: I imagine. 499 00:23:24,140 --> 00:23:25,580 Speaker 1: Or maybe it was a third. A third, a third? No, 500 00:23:25,580 --> 00:23:27,450 Speaker 1: two thirds. One third 501 00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:30,950 Speaker 1: between Canberra and the rest of the country. I imagine 502 00:23:30,950 --> 00:23:34,060 Speaker 2: you probably spent about 30% of your time on a plane. 503 00:23:34,070 --> 00:23:36,880 Speaker 1: I did a lot of time. Did sleep overnight many 504 00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:38,510 Speaker 1: times on a plane. You must have become a 505 00:23:38,510 --> 00:23:40,480 Speaker 2: very good flyer. What was your routine? 506 00:23:40,490 --> 00:23:43,720 Speaker 1: Well, I just didn't have the luxury of jet lag. 507 00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:45,359 Speaker 1: You just couldn't do it because 508 00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:49,530 Speaker 1: I would fly when parliament wasn't sitting. And not many 509 00:23:49,530 --> 00:23:53,760 Speaker 1: foreign ministers have had to be in a parliament where 510 00:23:54,540 --> 00:23:58,350 Speaker 1: you had to be present. We didn't have a majority. 511 00:23:58,740 --> 00:24:00,700 Speaker 1: And so you couldn't miss it. We had a we 512 00:24:00,700 --> 00:24:02,840 Speaker 1: had a one seat majority at one point and then 513 00:24:03,060 --> 00:24:04,260 Speaker 1: listen that 514 00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:07,490 Speaker 1: and so I had to be there for votes. I 515 00:24:07,490 --> 00:24:09,730 Speaker 1: was also the deputy leader, which meant I had to 516 00:24:09,740 --> 00:24:12,630 Speaker 1: fill in for the prime minister and had a lot 517 00:24:12,630 --> 00:24:16,610 Speaker 1: of demands across the country. And so when I went 518 00:24:16,609 --> 00:24:19,359 Speaker 1: overseas we had to be as effective and as efficient 519 00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:21,060 Speaker 1: as possible. So 520 00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:25,500 Speaker 1: we often flew overnight from country to country, not sleeping 521 00:24:25,500 --> 00:24:28,160 Speaker 1: in hotels and sleeping on the plane 522 00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:31,840 Speaker 1: and then getting back and starting a full day. So 523 00:24:31,850 --> 00:24:34,610 Speaker 1: you didn't have days off in between to recover. So 524 00:24:34,609 --> 00:24:36,510 Speaker 1: I decided that I couldn't do. Jet lag would have 525 00:24:36,510 --> 00:24:41,080 Speaker 1: to get rid of that, not an option. And I 526 00:24:41,090 --> 00:24:42,560 Speaker 1: would always try and 527 00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:44,770 Speaker 1: get some sleep on the plane. 528 00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:47,650 Speaker 1: Always start the day with a run. Didn't matter what 529 00:24:47,650 --> 00:24:50,600 Speaker 1: time I got in the night before or even early morning. 530 00:24:50,609 --> 00:24:53,580 Speaker 1: I tricked my body into thinking it's 5:30 a.m. Time 531 00:24:53,580 --> 00:24:56,690 Speaker 1: for run and I would run great for the endorphins 532 00:24:56,700 --> 00:24:58,750 Speaker 1: and that's a really good way to start the day. 533 00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:01,170 Speaker 1: But it also got you into the routine of the day, 534 00:25:01,170 --> 00:25:02,060 Speaker 1: and that's important. 535 00:25:02,140 --> 00:25:02,960 Speaker 2: How do you know? 536 00:25:02,970 --> 00:25:04,820 Speaker 1: I don't think about what time it is back home. 537 00:25:04,820 --> 00:25:05,119 Speaker 1: Where to 538 00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:08,850 Speaker 2: run, like how does that work? I noticed two things. Firstly, 539 00:25:08,859 --> 00:25:11,940 Speaker 2: you always seem to be running with purpose. Even if 540 00:25:11,950 --> 00:25:13,870 Speaker 2: I imagine you'd wake up some days and not even 541 00:25:13,869 --> 00:25:16,730 Speaker 2: know where you were, So does someone map out the 542 00:25:16,730 --> 00:25:18,619 Speaker 2: route for you? And I also noticed that you don't 543 00:25:18,619 --> 00:25:21,359 Speaker 2: tend to run with earbuds or earphones in. 544 00:25:21,369 --> 00:25:22,169 Speaker 1: Well, 545 00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:25,629 Speaker 1: if I were traveling overseas, the embassy and the Department 546 00:25:25,630 --> 00:25:27,550 Speaker 1: of Foreign Affairs and Trade would put together my 547 00:25:27,740 --> 00:25:30,740 Speaker 1: itinerary, my schedule for the day, and they would include 548 00:25:30,750 --> 00:25:32,740 Speaker 1: at my request, they would include a morning run, 549 00:25:33,140 --> 00:25:35,869 Speaker 1: and so my security detail would work that out in 550 00:25:35,869 --> 00:25:37,800 Speaker 1: advance and they would check out the places to run 551 00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:40,840 Speaker 1: and not run. I remember one day we were running 552 00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:44,679 Speaker 1: through the traffic in Jakarta, and the federal police officer 553 00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:46,920 Speaker 1: with me said this wasn't my idea. I didn't want 554 00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:49,100 Speaker 1: you running through the traffic, so I didn't always take 555 00:25:49,100 --> 00:25:52,460 Speaker 1: their advice, but they would work out a route. 556 00:25:52,740 --> 00:25:54,960 Speaker 1: And depending upon how much time I had, we would 557 00:25:55,140 --> 00:25:56,550 Speaker 1: run half an hour an hour, 558 00:25:57,240 --> 00:25:59,659 Speaker 1: and I find you 559 00:25:59,660 --> 00:26:02,100 Speaker 2: very fit people to be your security detail. How did 560 00:26:02,100 --> 00:26:02,790 Speaker 2: that work? 561 00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:07,119 Speaker 1: They came to that conclusion after I left one of 562 00:26:07,119 --> 00:26:09,290 Speaker 1: the federal police officers. I shouldn't say they should have 563 00:26:09,300 --> 00:26:14,320 Speaker 1: a long way behind. And I had to run back 564 00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:16,070 Speaker 1: and get him. And I thought, This is This isn't 565 00:26:16,070 --> 00:26:17,270 Speaker 1: the way it's meant to work. Is it 566 00:26:17,540 --> 00:26:20,060 Speaker 2: job for everybody having to. So they 567 00:26:20,210 --> 00:26:22,070 Speaker 1: So they did get to a point where they would 568 00:26:22,070 --> 00:26:24,050 Speaker 1: ask for volunteers. So I knew 569 00:26:24,140 --> 00:26:26,190 Speaker 1: that whoever was coming running would be able to last 570 00:26:26,190 --> 00:26:26,940 Speaker 1: the distance. How far 571 00:26:26,940 --> 00:26:27,920 Speaker 2: would you run every morning, 572 00:26:28,230 --> 00:26:30,650 Speaker 1: Somewhere between six and 10. Case. 573 00:26:31,540 --> 00:26:33,880 Speaker 2: And do you have a rhythm with that? You don't 574 00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:34,340 Speaker 2: listen to me. 575 00:26:34,340 --> 00:26:35,980 Speaker 1: You know, I don't I don't. I like to be 576 00:26:35,980 --> 00:26:39,960 Speaker 1: very aware of my surroundings. And particularly when I was 577 00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:43,800 Speaker 1: running in exotic places overseas, I wanted to absorb the 578 00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:47,460 Speaker 1: sounds and smells and and the visual, um, 579 00:26:48,340 --> 00:26:51,480 Speaker 1: observations were so important to me. And because so often 580 00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:52,720 Speaker 1: we were in a place 581 00:26:53,140 --> 00:26:56,240 Speaker 1: that would mean come in from the airport. I'd say 582 00:26:56,240 --> 00:26:58,780 Speaker 1: in a hotel I'd go to a conference. I get 583 00:26:58,780 --> 00:27:00,060 Speaker 1: back in the car, go back to the 584 00:27:00,540 --> 00:27:04,149 Speaker 1: airport. I wouldn't see the city. So the run in 585 00:27:04,150 --> 00:27:06,270 Speaker 1: the morning was an opportunity for me to get the 586 00:27:06,270 --> 00:27:08,880 Speaker 1: vibe of the place. And I tell you, there's nothing 587 00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:11,659 Speaker 1: more exciting than running through the streets of New York 588 00:27:11,660 --> 00:27:14,300 Speaker 1: at 5 30 AM, when the street cleaners are there 589 00:27:14,300 --> 00:27:17,300 Speaker 1: and the people are just opening up their stores and 590 00:27:17,310 --> 00:27:19,050 Speaker 1: whether it was whether it was 591 00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:24,180 Speaker 1: in Suva or Port Moresby or Mumbai, I would always 592 00:27:24,180 --> 00:27:26,409 Speaker 1: run around a part of the city to get the 593 00:27:26,410 --> 00:27:28,020 Speaker 1: feeling of it. And it was fantastic. 594 00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:28,959 Speaker 2: Treadmill girl? 595 00:27:28,970 --> 00:27:31,500 Speaker 1: No, not at all. If I can run outside, I'll 596 00:27:31,500 --> 00:27:34,350 Speaker 1: be outside a gym as a last option, 597 00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:36,920 Speaker 2: with all the work you have to do as foreign 598 00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:39,139 Speaker 2: minister and as a politician in general, but particularly the 599 00:27:39,140 --> 00:27:44,890 Speaker 2: foreign minister. A lot of dinners, state dinners, banquets, 10 600 00:27:44,890 --> 00:27:46,960 Speaker 2: course meals, plain food, 601 00:27:47,540 --> 00:27:48,750 Speaker 2: I imagine hotel 602 00:27:48,750 --> 00:27:50,370 Speaker 1: rooms. How 603 00:27:50,369 --> 00:27:52,980 Speaker 2: did you plan that part of your life? Just the 604 00:27:52,990 --> 00:27:55,470 Speaker 2: eating part and a lot of time. I imagine you 605 00:27:55,470 --> 00:27:57,820 Speaker 2: wouldn't have control necessarily over what you ate. 606 00:27:57,830 --> 00:28:00,000 Speaker 1: It's very interesting. I should write a book on the 607 00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:04,190 Speaker 1: banquettes I've attended. Uh, it was a challenge because you 608 00:28:04,190 --> 00:28:05,770 Speaker 1: don't want to offend your hosts. 609 00:28:06,140 --> 00:28:09,260 Speaker 1: And I think the key to it is just eat 610 00:28:09,270 --> 00:28:11,770 Speaker 1: small portions of all of it. Try a bit of 611 00:28:11,770 --> 00:28:12,260 Speaker 1: everything 612 00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:16,320 Speaker 1: and don't overdo the desert. But I say that it's 613 00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:19,800 Speaker 1: just I'm just saying it. Don't overdo the desert. I've 614 00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:21,359 Speaker 1: got the sweet tooth from 615 00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:23,960 Speaker 1: hell. I really do. I love chocolate, 616 00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:26,639 Speaker 1: but I would just try and be careful, and then 617 00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:29,590 Speaker 1: sometimes I would fast on the plane. I wouldn't eat 618 00:28:29,590 --> 00:28:31,939 Speaker 1: on a plane, and then I wouldn't feel so guilty 619 00:28:31,940 --> 00:28:32,360 Speaker 1: about 620 00:28:32,740 --> 00:28:35,010 Speaker 1: having to sit through a five course meal or more. 621 00:28:35,020 --> 00:28:37,670 Speaker 2: Would you have routines in your hotel room in terms 622 00:28:37,670 --> 00:28:40,990 Speaker 2: of what you do to make yourself or trying all 623 00:28:40,990 --> 00:28:42,810 Speaker 2: these different places? Try not to eat them anyway. 624 00:28:42,810 --> 00:28:44,990 Speaker 1: I try not to go near the mini bar. That's 625 00:28:44,990 --> 00:28:45,660 Speaker 1: a start, because 626 00:28:45,660 --> 00:28:48,220 Speaker 2: it's very unsettling. The idea of sleeping in different beds 627 00:28:48,220 --> 00:28:49,420 Speaker 2: all the time and 628 00:28:49,430 --> 00:28:52,360 Speaker 1: yes, well, when you're away for, say, what was 629 00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:55,310 Speaker 1: about 110 nights overseas, 630 00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:57,960 Speaker 1: there were times when I would wake up and then 631 00:28:57,970 --> 00:29:02,050 Speaker 1: feel around me. Okay, where's my phone? Where's the light switch. 632 00:29:02,050 --> 00:29:05,350 Speaker 1: Where am I? Where? Bathroom. That would happen. Wake up 633 00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:05,770 Speaker 1: and think. 634 00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:08,830 Speaker 1: Okay. Tuesday must be Belgium. 635 00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:11,390 Speaker 2: What's my hotel room number? I've forgotten. 636 00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:14,760 Speaker 1: I There have been occasions when I've been trying to remember. 637 00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:17,210 Speaker 1: Somebody will say what was exquisite hotel like And I 638 00:29:17,220 --> 00:29:17,550 Speaker 1: think 639 00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:20,800 Speaker 1: I stayed there and I'll try and visualize what it 640 00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:24,190 Speaker 1: looked like in my mind. And then I'll remember something like, Ah, 641 00:29:24,190 --> 00:29:27,700 Speaker 1: the passageway. Remember the breakfast room yet? Something will come 642 00:29:27,700 --> 00:29:29,200 Speaker 1: back to me. And I'll remember where you went for 643 00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:31,860 Speaker 1: a run. Yeah, I remember my runs very well. 644 00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:33,170 Speaker 2: How do you pack? 645 00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:39,120 Speaker 1: With great difficulty. It's like a military operation rolling, folding, 646 00:29:39,130 --> 00:29:41,850 Speaker 1: trying to work out day by day, what I'm going 647 00:29:41,850 --> 00:29:45,050 Speaker 1: to need to wear. And this is something that guys 648 00:29:45,050 --> 00:29:45,860 Speaker 1: just don't get 649 00:29:46,340 --> 00:29:50,360 Speaker 1: because they can put in suits, shirts, ties, done. 650 00:29:50,740 --> 00:29:54,460 Speaker 1: But for a woman, you're expected to 651 00:29:54,940 --> 00:29:58,050 Speaker 1: take a cocktail, Frank, if there's an event or a 652 00:29:58,050 --> 00:30:01,500 Speaker 1: suit or you're running here. And so if I were 653 00:30:01,500 --> 00:30:03,850 Speaker 1: going away sometimes for 10 days at a time, 654 00:30:04,340 --> 00:30:08,240 Speaker 1: I sit at home and go through day by day. Well, 655 00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:10,590 Speaker 1: I wear that outfit that day, that one that one 656 00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:12,470 Speaker 1: and go through it and then work out the weather. 657 00:30:12,470 --> 00:30:15,310 Speaker 1: And it's going to be hot cold because often I 658 00:30:15,310 --> 00:30:17,860 Speaker 1: remember my last overseas trip as foreign minister. 659 00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:23,500 Speaker 1: We went from North Asia to Southeast Asia, to Samoa 660 00:30:23,510 --> 00:30:26,890 Speaker 1: and back to Sydney, and so it was going Northern hemisphere, 661 00:30:26,890 --> 00:30:30,880 Speaker 1: Southern hemisphere, formal, casual and everything in between. So you 662 00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:31,270 Speaker 1: just 663 00:30:31,740 --> 00:30:35,550 Speaker 1: over time you learn to pack for any and all occasions. 664 00:30:35,940 --> 00:30:37,580 Speaker 2: Do you do your own hair and makeup? Because that's 665 00:30:37,580 --> 00:30:40,990 Speaker 2: another tax on women in the public eye that men 666 00:30:40,990 --> 00:30:42,610 Speaker 2: don't have to pay in terms of time 667 00:30:42,620 --> 00:30:45,440 Speaker 1: unless I'm doing a TV interview and you know how 668 00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:48,170 Speaker 1: they have. They have makeup rooms and they make you 669 00:30:48,170 --> 00:30:48,360 Speaker 1: look 670 00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:51,970 Speaker 1: younger and brighter and fresher. But otherwise, no, I do 671 00:30:51,970 --> 00:30:54,060 Speaker 1: my own hair and makeup and I don't have a stylist. 672 00:30:54,060 --> 00:30:55,780 Speaker 1: I do my own clothes shopping. 673 00:30:55,790 --> 00:31:00,260 Speaker 2: I noticed you love fashion, which we all love about you. 674 00:31:00,270 --> 00:31:02,840 Speaker 1: Well, I don't apologize for it. You know who I 675 00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:05,630 Speaker 1: am and if you want authentic politicians, you've just got 676 00:31:05,630 --> 00:31:07,890 Speaker 1: to accept the fact that I love fashion. I always have, 677 00:31:07,890 --> 00:31:08,670 Speaker 1: and I always will. 678 00:31:08,740 --> 00:31:11,720 Speaker 2: Your fashion style changed a few years ago, I noticed 679 00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:15,160 Speaker 2: you used to wear brightly colored jackets and pearls. 680 00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:20,870 Speaker 2: And then you started wearing a lot of Armani. More edgy, close, 681 00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:25,610 Speaker 2: more dark colours. You became more, I would say, contemporary 682 00:31:25,610 --> 00:31:27,020 Speaker 2: and more fashion. 683 00:31:27,030 --> 00:31:30,450 Speaker 1: You know there's a story behind this. Please tell it. Amazing. 684 00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:34,170 Speaker 1: As a lawyer, I 685 00:31:35,140 --> 00:31:38,260 Speaker 1: war suits, uh, a lot because that's kind of the 686 00:31:38,270 --> 00:31:42,250 Speaker 1: professional uniform. And I bought my first Armani suit as 687 00:31:42,260 --> 00:31:45,370 Speaker 1: a partner in a law firm, saved up enough and 688 00:31:45,370 --> 00:31:47,170 Speaker 1: brought in the money suit. I thought Love it. 689 00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:51,850 Speaker 1: When I was first appointed to the ministry, 690 00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:53,459 Speaker 1: I 691 00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:57,160 Speaker 1: was asked to be the minister for aged care for aging, 692 00:31:57,940 --> 00:31:58,660 Speaker 1: and 693 00:31:59,340 --> 00:32:02,670 Speaker 1: one of the prime minister's senior advisers rang me 694 00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:03,960 Speaker 1: and said, 695 00:32:04,540 --> 00:32:08,180 Speaker 1: Julie, take this the right way. But forget the Armani suits. 696 00:32:08,190 --> 00:32:09,550 Speaker 1: Forget the corporate. Look, 697 00:32:10,340 --> 00:32:12,930 Speaker 1: you're the minister for aging. You're going into age care homes. 698 00:32:12,930 --> 00:32:15,310 Speaker 1: You've got to dress appropriately and I'm there. I don't know. 699 00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:17,740 Speaker 1: This is a guy telling me, What do you mean? 700 00:32:17,740 --> 00:32:19,330 Speaker 1: What do you want me to wear? Like I am 701 00:32:19,330 --> 00:32:20,360 Speaker 1: who I am? I've been 702 00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:21,770 Speaker 1: a professional 703 00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:25,090 Speaker 1: career woman for quite some time now, and I have 704 00:32:25,090 --> 00:32:27,130 Speaker 1: a dress and how to get dressed, he said. You know, 705 00:32:27,140 --> 00:32:29,890 Speaker 1: like I said, What you mean like cardigans? And this 706 00:32:29,890 --> 00:32:33,490 Speaker 1: is Before Michelle Obama turned cardigans into a fashion item. 707 00:32:33,500 --> 00:32:36,410 Speaker 1: I said, Like cardigans. He goes, Yeah, more prints, more color, 708 00:32:36,410 --> 00:32:38,460 Speaker 1: more down, up. 709 00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:39,950 Speaker 1: Just not corporate. 710 00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:44,360 Speaker 1: So you'll see me as minister for aging, looking 711 00:32:45,140 --> 00:32:45,670 Speaker 1: like 712 00:32:46,140 --> 00:32:48,170 Speaker 1: they expected me to look, that was, 713 00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:51,960 Speaker 1: and then I thought, This is ridiculous. Don't let other 714 00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:55,680 Speaker 1: people define who you are, what you wear be authentic. 715 00:32:55,690 --> 00:32:58,860 Speaker 1: And so I just decided one day of 716 00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:00,700 Speaker 1: had enough of that, I'm going to dress the way 717 00:33:00,700 --> 00:33:01,310 Speaker 1: I want to dress. 718 00:33:01,940 --> 00:33:05,930 Speaker 2: I love it. I was watching Amanda Vanstone on You 719 00:33:05,930 --> 00:33:09,910 Speaker 2: Can't Ask That the ABC Show, and she strikes me 720 00:33:09,910 --> 00:33:13,080 Speaker 2: as someone who also just really knows her style. She 721 00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:16,910 Speaker 2: wears her bright prince short sleeve shirts with her skirts 722 00:33:16,910 --> 00:33:19,090 Speaker 2: or slacks, and that's just her. 723 00:33:19,100 --> 00:33:21,170 Speaker 1: Well, that's right. You wear what 724 00:33:21,340 --> 00:33:22,270 Speaker 1: makes you feel 725 00:33:22,340 --> 00:33:25,340 Speaker 1: comfortable, happy dress for yourself. Don't dress for others, and 726 00:33:25,340 --> 00:33:27,720 Speaker 1: I made that mistake. So I now dress very much 727 00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:30,450 Speaker 1: for myself and sure you get criticized for it. But 728 00:33:30,450 --> 00:33:33,350 Speaker 1: if I feel comfortable, if I'm happy with what I'm wearing. 729 00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:34,460 Speaker 1: That's enough, 730 00:33:35,540 --> 00:33:40,270 Speaker 2: Julie. How do you date when you're a politician and 731 00:33:40,270 --> 00:33:42,990 Speaker 2: you're the foreign Minister? I mean I mean, imagine there's 732 00:33:42,990 --> 00:33:45,210 Speaker 2: no shortage of men around you all the time. But 733 00:33:45,220 --> 00:33:47,920 Speaker 2: how do you actually have any kind of romantic or 734 00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:48,460 Speaker 2: personal life? 735 00:33:48,470 --> 00:33:51,270 Speaker 1: I have a lovely partner indeed. How did you guys 736 00:33:51,270 --> 00:33:55,170 Speaker 1: meet through Bruce Baird? See, you can have friends in politics. 737 00:33:55,180 --> 00:33:56,770 Speaker 1: Bruce was the first 738 00:33:57,240 --> 00:34:00,230 Speaker 1: person that I met when I became a new member 739 00:34:00,230 --> 00:34:03,780 Speaker 1: of Parliament back in 1998. He had the opposite opposite mine, 740 00:34:03,790 --> 00:34:06,660 Speaker 1: and we just struck up a friendship. We became friends, 741 00:34:06,660 --> 00:34:07,950 Speaker 1: and we're friends. To this day, 742 00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:09,780 Speaker 1: he introduced us 743 00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:14,049 Speaker 2: and you've been together, you and David for about five 744 00:34:14,050 --> 00:34:18,569 Speaker 2: years or so now and used to travel a lot together. 745 00:34:18,580 --> 00:34:23,670 Speaker 2: At one point, I think, um, Melania Trump confused you 746 00:34:23,670 --> 00:34:24,280 Speaker 2: with one of the 747 00:34:24,280 --> 00:34:27,620 Speaker 1: wives. She told me that story. Well, I get into 748 00:34:27,620 --> 00:34:29,360 Speaker 1: trouble with the White House when I tell this story. 749 00:34:29,540 --> 00:34:34,390 Speaker 1: But Melania anymore. No. Melania assumed that David was the 750 00:34:34,390 --> 00:34:36,049 Speaker 1: foreign minister and that I was the 751 00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:40,250 Speaker 1: the partner and she asked me to her 752 00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:43,120 Speaker 1: lunch the partners lunch the next day and I said, Oh, no, 753 00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:46,310 Speaker 1: David's going And she was very puzzled. Why would Australia's 754 00:34:46,310 --> 00:34:49,140 Speaker 1: foreign minister turned up at my ladies' lunch? But she 755 00:34:49,140 --> 00:34:51,050 Speaker 1: obviously worked it out the next day when David did 756 00:34:51,050 --> 00:34:52,250 Speaker 1: turn up the lunch and 757 00:34:52,640 --> 00:34:56,330 Speaker 1: he said he had a wonderful time, so he 758 00:34:56,330 --> 00:34:59,490 Speaker 2: has to be pretty secure to be to be dating you. 759 00:34:59,489 --> 00:35:02,790 Speaker 2: You're pretty formidable and accomplished and beautiful and all of 760 00:35:02,790 --> 00:35:03,009 Speaker 2: those 761 00:35:03,010 --> 00:35:05,469 Speaker 1: things. No, he's a very special person. 762 00:35:06,340 --> 00:35:09,359 Speaker 2: Can I ask you about a few different people? Barack Obama? 763 00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:12,410 Speaker 1: Yes, I met him on a number of occasions. He 764 00:35:12,410 --> 00:35:14,250 Speaker 1: was a very cool, 765 00:35:14,940 --> 00:35:18,690 Speaker 1: calm person. He had a delightful sense of humor, but 766 00:35:18,690 --> 00:35:21,089 Speaker 1: it was very It was very laid back, a lot 767 00:35:21,090 --> 00:35:23,160 Speaker 1: more informal than I had expected. 768 00:35:23,540 --> 00:35:26,469 Speaker 1: And he was fun to be around. 769 00:35:26,940 --> 00:35:27,560 Speaker 1: I 770 00:35:27,940 --> 00:35:32,230 Speaker 1: met him here in Australia and in Washington and in 771 00:35:32,230 --> 00:35:32,760 Speaker 1: New York, 772 00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:35,840 Speaker 1: and on every occasion he would call you by your 773 00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:38,339 Speaker 1: first name. There was a real informality about him that 774 00:35:38,350 --> 00:35:39,169 Speaker 1: was quite charming. 775 00:35:39,540 --> 00:35:44,500 Speaker 2: He seems to have worn his, um, role, I guess, 776 00:35:44,500 --> 00:35:47,620 Speaker 2: quite lightly. Like heavily in terms of he took, he 777 00:35:47,620 --> 00:35:51,259 Speaker 2: took it. It was very responsible, obviously, and an extraordinary leader, 778 00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:54,940 Speaker 2: but he seemed to not take himself too seriously. He 779 00:35:54,940 --> 00:35:56,379 Speaker 2: seemed like he would be quite fun to be 780 00:35:56,380 --> 00:35:59,680 Speaker 1: around. He seemed to be quite relaxed in the role, 781 00:35:59,690 --> 00:36:04,860 Speaker 1: and that was quite an attractive quality. Being around, you know, 782 00:36:04,860 --> 00:36:07,860 Speaker 1: he was the leader of the free world, the world's 783 00:36:07,860 --> 00:36:10,660 Speaker 1: only superpower. And you're the president. It's a 784 00:36:11,530 --> 00:36:14,250 Speaker 1: a very substantial role. Let's face it. 785 00:36:14,730 --> 00:36:16,739 Speaker 1: But he seemed to be very relaxed, 786 00:36:17,130 --> 00:36:18,850 Speaker 1: remarkably relaxed in the role. 787 00:36:18,860 --> 00:36:21,260 Speaker 2: Did you read Michelle Obama's becoming 788 00:36:21,270 --> 00:36:24,600 Speaker 1: I started? I haven't finished it. I've got about eight books. 789 00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:26,799 Speaker 1: I imagine you met her a number of times. Yes, 790 00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:33,450 Speaker 1: I did. She's charming, delightful, likewise very accessible, very informal 791 00:36:33,830 --> 00:36:38,270 Speaker 1: and very tall. She's beautiful. They're both very tall. I 792 00:36:38,270 --> 00:36:40,219 Speaker 1: have my photograph taken with them a number of times, 793 00:36:40,219 --> 00:36:41,050 Speaker 1: and I felt like 794 00:36:41,430 --> 00:36:46,070 Speaker 1: tiny little person between these two glamour Zahn's. It was 795 00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:47,250 Speaker 1: a bit intimidating. 796 00:36:47,930 --> 00:36:49,710 Speaker 2: Uh, did you make Donald 797 00:36:49,710 --> 00:36:51,739 Speaker 1: Trump? Yes, Donald and Melania. 798 00:36:52,330 --> 00:36:53,069 Speaker 1: I know 799 00:36:53,070 --> 00:36:54,550 Speaker 2: you have to be diplomatic. 800 00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:57,860 Speaker 1: I met the president on a number of occasions. He 801 00:36:57,870 --> 00:37:02,740 Speaker 1: is quite unorthodox. He's very confident, self confident 802 00:37:03,130 --> 00:37:08,570 Speaker 1: and again because I was Australia's foreign minister. He was 803 00:37:08,580 --> 00:37:10,049 Speaker 1: very warm and welcoming. 804 00:37:10,530 --> 00:37:13,950 Speaker 1: I don't know that we appreciate how highly regarded Australia 805 00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:17,090 Speaker 1: is on the world stage. And so it was such 806 00:37:17,090 --> 00:37:20,800 Speaker 1: an honor to be Australia's foreign minister and turning up 807 00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:23,530 Speaker 1: at these forums and meetings and conferences and the United 808 00:37:23,530 --> 00:37:27,649 Speaker 1: Nations time and time again. And people seem genuinely pleased 809 00:37:27,650 --> 00:37:31,110 Speaker 1: to see you and genuinely respectful of your view, because 810 00:37:31,110 --> 00:37:32,160 Speaker 1: you were from Australia, 811 00:37:32,330 --> 00:37:34,440 Speaker 1: a country that is very highly regarded. 812 00:37:34,450 --> 00:37:36,850 Speaker 2: Haven't we lost a lot of skin in the last 813 00:37:36,850 --> 00:37:38,839 Speaker 2: few years? The Italy of 814 00:37:39,730 --> 00:37:44,050 Speaker 2: the Pacific and just with this ridiculous kangaroo style 815 00:37:44,430 --> 00:37:46,550 Speaker 2: in and out of I was contacted 816 00:37:46,550 --> 00:37:50,660 Speaker 1: by a number of counterparts overseas who were puzzled. They 817 00:37:50,660 --> 00:37:52,950 Speaker 1: were perplexed because that's not the image they had of 818 00:37:52,950 --> 00:37:54,660 Speaker 1: Australia were one of the 819 00:37:55,030 --> 00:38:01,549 Speaker 1: longest standing democracies in modern times, and people always equated 820 00:38:01,550 --> 00:38:05,590 Speaker 1: Australia to political stability, many other things as well open 821 00:38:05,590 --> 00:38:10,330 Speaker 1: liberal democracy, freedom and the rule of law and open, 822 00:38:10,340 --> 00:38:13,830 Speaker 1: export oriented market economy. There are things about Australia that 823 00:38:13,830 --> 00:38:14,950 Speaker 1: stand the test of time, 824 00:38:15,219 --> 00:38:18,940 Speaker 1: and this just went against their understanding of Australia 825 00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:22,510 Speaker 1: and why were we changing prime ministers and then what 826 00:38:22,510 --> 00:38:24,290 Speaker 1: was the reason for it? And they will be expecting 827 00:38:24,290 --> 00:38:30,300 Speaker 1: some deep, substantial philosophical ideological divide, and it came down to, well, 828 00:38:30,300 --> 00:38:31,440 Speaker 1: they don't like working with him. 829 00:38:32,020 --> 00:38:34,709 Speaker 2: That's pretty much why Malcolm Turnbull went like, Can anyone 830 00:38:34,719 --> 00:38:37,450 Speaker 2: still to this day explain what just happened? 831 00:38:37,820 --> 00:38:41,310 Speaker 1: Well, I certainly wasn't the instigator of it, so I 832 00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:45,680 Speaker 1: had no cause to want to see Malcolm leave, and 833 00:38:45,680 --> 00:38:48,140 Speaker 1: I thought the polling was heading in the right direction, 834 00:38:48,140 --> 00:38:50,650 Speaker 1: and I was confident that Malcolm would win the next election. 835 00:38:51,020 --> 00:38:53,190 Speaker 1: But likewise, I'm confident that Scott Morrison will win the 836 00:38:53,190 --> 00:38:54,040 Speaker 1: election so 837 00:38:54,520 --> 00:38:59,169 Speaker 1: the policies do matter. And I think the Australian people 838 00:38:59,180 --> 00:39:02,700 Speaker 1: trust the Coalition on Economic Management and National Security. Another 839 00:39:02,700 --> 00:39:05,190 Speaker 1: two tenants, if you like, of a federal government. 840 00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:09,080 Speaker 2: When you met a lot of foreign diplomats and leaders, 841 00:39:09,620 --> 00:39:12,220 Speaker 2: what were their ideas about Australia, like, what did they 842 00:39:12,219 --> 00:39:14,640 Speaker 2: want to talk to you about? Was it koalas? Was 843 00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:15,250 Speaker 2: it about 844 00:39:15,420 --> 00:39:20,149 Speaker 2: Kylie Minogue like what was their pop cultural understanding of 845 00:39:20,820 --> 00:39:23,430 Speaker 1: where we see it in the world? Many of them 846 00:39:23,430 --> 00:39:25,950 Speaker 1: had visited Australia, and there 847 00:39:26,520 --> 00:39:31,230 Speaker 1: reference point was normally how clean and open and free 848 00:39:31,239 --> 00:39:33,150 Speaker 1: we are as a society, 849 00:39:33,620 --> 00:39:37,540 Speaker 1: and that's why when there was the Lindt Cafe 850 00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:40,370 Speaker 1: attack, for example, people were shocked again. That's not what 851 00:39:40,370 --> 00:39:41,150 Speaker 1: they expected 852 00:39:42,020 --> 00:39:43,340 Speaker 1: to happen in Australia, 853 00:39:43,719 --> 00:39:45,450 Speaker 1: and so were seen as a 854 00:39:45,820 --> 00:39:47,140 Speaker 1: a country that 855 00:39:47,920 --> 00:39:50,600 Speaker 1: is the envy of the world in so many ways 856 00:39:50,850 --> 00:39:55,750 Speaker 1: were economically successful. We have a lifestyle, second, none, 857 00:39:56,120 --> 00:39:56,839 Speaker 1: and 858 00:39:57,719 --> 00:39:58,950 Speaker 1: the people are friendly. 859 00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:02,880 Speaker 1: So that's the image people have of us overseas. Many 860 00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:05,230 Speaker 1: foreign ministers, for example, had been to Australia. 861 00:40:05,710 --> 00:40:08,070 Speaker 1: A number had not. Now, this is an interesting one. 862 00:40:08,080 --> 00:40:12,320 Speaker 1: John Kerry was US secretary of state, long standing foreign 863 00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:14,020 Speaker 1: policy expert, and 864 00:40:14,610 --> 00:40:19,320 Speaker 1: he came to Australia in 2016 as part of what's 865 00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:22,819 Speaker 1: called Osmond the Australia US Ministerial Dialogue. 866 00:40:23,410 --> 00:40:26,540 Speaker 1: He had never been to Australia, and I was quite 867 00:40:26,540 --> 00:40:28,880 Speaker 1: taken aback by that. How could that possibly be a 868 00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:29,640 Speaker 1: senior 869 00:40:30,310 --> 00:40:33,129 Speaker 1: public figure in the US who had been a senator 870 00:40:33,130 --> 00:40:35,960 Speaker 1: for 30 years, had never found his way to Australia. Anyway, 871 00:40:35,969 --> 00:40:38,680 Speaker 1: I remember the first press conference and he was saying 872 00:40:38,680 --> 00:40:40,630 Speaker 1: to the media, I've never been to Australia before, and 873 00:40:40,630 --> 00:40:42,600 Speaker 1: then I took him aside and said I wouldn't tell 874 00:40:42,600 --> 00:40:44,750 Speaker 1: them that again. I wouldn't because they're just going to 875 00:40:44,750 --> 00:40:46,330 Speaker 1: ask you why the hell not? 876 00:40:46,710 --> 00:40:50,940 Speaker 1: But he was enchanted by the place. We had the 877 00:40:50,940 --> 00:40:56,520 Speaker 1: meeting at Admiralty House, so in Sydney, and we took 878 00:40:56,530 --> 00:40:57,530 Speaker 1: the 879 00:40:58,010 --> 00:41:01,920 Speaker 1: Navy's barge from the opera house steps. The manual steps 880 00:41:01,930 --> 00:41:05,680 Speaker 1: over to Admiralty House, and the governor general, Peter Cosgrove, 881 00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:06,320 Speaker 1: measures there. 882 00:41:06,810 --> 00:41:10,170 Speaker 1: And John Kerry looked out over Sydney Harbour and said, 883 00:41:10,180 --> 00:41:13,540 Speaker 1: This is amazing. So I added, This is why you 884 00:41:13,540 --> 00:41:16,010 Speaker 1: should have been here before just to get an understanding 885 00:41:16,010 --> 00:41:17,910 Speaker 1: of what Australia's really love. You 886 00:41:17,910 --> 00:41:22,930 Speaker 2: were the deputy of three different leaders. Brendan Nelson, Tony 887 00:41:22,930 --> 00:41:24,140 Speaker 2: Abbott and Malcolm Turnbull. 888 00:41:24,910 --> 00:41:28,839 Speaker 1: Well, Brendan Nelson, Malcolm Turnbull, Tony Abbott, Malcolm Turnbull went 889 00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:29,739 Speaker 1: in that order. So 890 00:41:30,310 --> 00:41:30,950 Speaker 2: Malcolm Turnbull, 891 00:41:31,460 --> 00:41:32,590 Speaker 1: Malcolm, tell 892 00:41:32,590 --> 00:41:35,660 Speaker 2: me about the relationship when you're a deputy to your 893 00:41:35,670 --> 00:41:36,830 Speaker 2: to your party leader. 894 00:41:38,510 --> 00:41:41,180 Speaker 1: The interesting point about the deputy of the Liberal Party 895 00:41:41,190 --> 00:41:44,830 Speaker 1: is that you are elected directly by the party room. 896 00:41:45,210 --> 00:41:47,739 Speaker 1: It's about the only position that is not appointed by 897 00:41:47,739 --> 00:41:48,370 Speaker 1: the leader. 898 00:41:49,010 --> 00:41:49,830 Speaker 1: And 899 00:41:50,600 --> 00:41:54,259 Speaker 2: so he doesn't get to choose or she 900 00:41:54,590 --> 00:41:58,410 Speaker 1: Menzies, our founder, did this deliberately. He set it up 901 00:41:58,410 --> 00:41:59,140 Speaker 1: so that 902 00:41:59,510 --> 00:42:02,030 Speaker 1: there were two positions elected by the party room, the 903 00:42:02,030 --> 00:42:04,830 Speaker 1: leader and the deputy leader. And that meant the deputy 904 00:42:04,830 --> 00:42:08,779 Speaker 1: leader was actually answerable to the party room, not to 905 00:42:08,780 --> 00:42:12,310 Speaker 1: the leader. So the leader couldn't sack the deputy. And 906 00:42:12,310 --> 00:42:13,610 Speaker 1: I was very conscious of that 907 00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:19,689 Speaker 1: responsibility and the role of deputy. You are the conduit 908 00:42:19,700 --> 00:42:20,310 Speaker 1: between 909 00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:22,419 Speaker 1: the back bench 910 00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:26,960 Speaker 1: and the leader. So while Cabinet ministers were appointed by 911 00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:27,510 Speaker 1: the 912 00:42:28,500 --> 00:42:31,730 Speaker 1: leader while chairs of committees were appointed by the leader, 913 00:42:31,730 --> 00:42:35,040 Speaker 1: so he who gives can take away the deputy's position 914 00:42:35,040 --> 00:42:37,630 Speaker 1: was elected by the whole party room. And so I 915 00:42:37,630 --> 00:42:40,410 Speaker 1: was re elected a number of times by the party room. 916 00:42:40,420 --> 00:42:43,690 Speaker 1: On the last occasion, I didn't stand for re elections. 917 00:42:43,690 --> 00:42:44,610 Speaker 2: Why didn't you? 918 00:42:45,650 --> 00:42:45,710 Speaker 2: You 919 00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:49,350 Speaker 1: know what I was going to stand for? Leader, leader. 920 00:42:49,360 --> 00:42:53,430 Speaker 1: And then when I didn't get through 921 00:42:53,880 --> 00:42:58,660 Speaker 1: that test, I decided not to run for Deputy because 922 00:42:58,660 --> 00:43:00,219 Speaker 1: I thought they need a new team. 923 00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:01,930 Speaker 1: It would be 924 00:43:02,500 --> 00:43:04,969 Speaker 1: wise for me to stand aside and let a new 925 00:43:04,969 --> 00:43:06,819 Speaker 1: team start all over again. 926 00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:09,930 Speaker 1: So that's what happened. So Josh Fredinburg stood and he 927 00:43:09,930 --> 00:43:12,800 Speaker 1: was elected and I didn't stand. So I have an 928 00:43:12,810 --> 00:43:14,610 Speaker 1: unblemished record as deputy. 929 00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:17,040 Speaker 2: There were some leaders that you seem to get on 930 00:43:17,040 --> 00:43:19,520 Speaker 2: with better than others that you were more probably like 931 00:43:19,520 --> 00:43:24,170 Speaker 2: minded than others. You and Brendan Nelson remain close friends. 932 00:43:24,180 --> 00:43:28,009 Speaker 2: You and Malcolm Turnbull seemed to be a really good team. 933 00:43:28,010 --> 00:43:31,960 Speaker 1: I knew Malcolm from a long time ago. We met 934 00:43:31,969 --> 00:43:34,320 Speaker 1: in the late eighties when he was 935 00:43:34,500 --> 00:43:36,660 Speaker 1: a lawyer from Sydney and I was a lawyer in Perth, 936 00:43:36,660 --> 00:43:36,930 Speaker 1: and 937 00:43:37,000 --> 00:43:38,920 Speaker 1: our firm briefed Malcolm 938 00:43:39,300 --> 00:43:43,040 Speaker 1: on some significant litigation. At the time. He had a 939 00:43:43,040 --> 00:43:45,660 Speaker 1: long standing. So I know Malcolm. For a long time 940 00:43:45,660 --> 00:43:49,620 Speaker 1: I've been to his birthday parties. I've got to know Lucy. Well, um, 941 00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:52,910 Speaker 1: Malcolm's father in law, Tom Hughes, was a barrister that 942 00:43:52,910 --> 00:43:55,460 Speaker 1: I briefed on many occasions. So I've known the Turnbull 943 00:43:55,460 --> 00:43:58,070 Speaker 1: family Turnbull Hughes family for many years. So Malcolm and 944 00:43:58,070 --> 00:44:01,150 Speaker 1: I were friends before he came into politics. In fact, 945 00:44:01,160 --> 00:44:04,730 Speaker 1: we both went to the Constitutional Convention. Back in 1998 946 00:44:04,730 --> 00:44:07,609 Speaker 1: he was heading up the Republican movement, and I was 947 00:44:07,989 --> 00:44:11,239 Speaker 1: an appointed delegate from Western Australia as a female lawyer 948 00:44:11,239 --> 00:44:13,279 Speaker 1: at the time. So I've known Malcolm for a long time, 949 00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:16,390 Speaker 1: so we were friends before he came into politics, and 950 00:44:16,400 --> 00:44:17,710 Speaker 1: we're friends to this day. 951 00:44:18,590 --> 00:44:19,810 Speaker 2: What about Tony Abbott? 952 00:44:20,390 --> 00:44:25,820 Speaker 1: Tony was my senior minister when I was the minister 953 00:44:25,820 --> 00:44:28,740 Speaker 1: for aging. He was the minister for health, and so 954 00:44:28,739 --> 00:44:33,190 Speaker 1: we worked closely together in professionally. We got along fine. 955 00:44:33,200 --> 00:44:37,010 Speaker 1: We have different perspectives on a number of social issues, 956 00:44:38,140 --> 00:44:40,600 Speaker 1: and so we're not as close, obviously. 957 00:44:40,989 --> 00:44:44,830 Speaker 1: And then when Tony lost the support of the party room, 958 00:44:44,840 --> 00:44:47,800 Speaker 1: he took it pretty hard 959 00:44:48,290 --> 00:44:51,640 Speaker 1: and blamed a lot of people, and I think I 960 00:44:51,640 --> 00:44:52,910 Speaker 1: was included in that group. 961 00:44:53,489 --> 00:44:54,509 Speaker 1: I 962 00:44:55,090 --> 00:44:58,540 Speaker 1: didn't ever undermine Tony. I never leaked against him. 963 00:44:58,989 --> 00:45:00,310 Speaker 1: I was 964 00:45:00,790 --> 00:45:04,810 Speaker 1: a deputy as competently and as effectively as I could be. 965 00:45:05,489 --> 00:45:09,529 Speaker 1: But politics can be a very tough, tough game, and 966 00:45:09,540 --> 00:45:12,209 Speaker 1: people get disappointed about a whole range of things 967 00:45:12,690 --> 00:45:15,790 Speaker 2: when you're the deputy to a leader who you aren't 968 00:45:15,800 --> 00:45:19,620 Speaker 2: aligned with, perhaps on things like same sex marriage, perhaps 969 00:45:19,620 --> 00:45:22,410 Speaker 2: their beliefs about women. How do you manage that? 970 00:45:22,790 --> 00:45:25,779 Speaker 1: You respect that. Your views are different. You respect their 971 00:45:25,780 --> 00:45:28,290 Speaker 1: views if they are honestly held and hope that they 972 00:45:28,300 --> 00:45:30,609 Speaker 1: respect your views that are honestly held. 973 00:45:31,690 --> 00:45:35,460 Speaker 1: But you can't expect to in the leadership team to 974 00:45:35,460 --> 00:45:37,569 Speaker 1: have the same view on the same issues. The Liberal 975 00:45:37,570 --> 00:45:41,219 Speaker 1: Party attracts people across a broad spectrum. John Howard always 976 00:45:41,219 --> 00:45:43,890 Speaker 1: called it a broad church, and people have different views, 977 00:45:43,890 --> 00:45:47,710 Speaker 1: different experiences, different perspectives and philosophies and values. 978 00:45:48,090 --> 00:45:49,610 Speaker 1: And so you 979 00:45:49,989 --> 00:45:52,720 Speaker 1: work with that. You don't 980 00:45:53,290 --> 00:45:54,150 Speaker 1: resent it. 981 00:45:54,590 --> 00:45:58,040 Speaker 1: If you think it's worth advocating a change in position, 982 00:45:58,050 --> 00:46:00,020 Speaker 1: you can give advice. But at the end of the day, 983 00:46:00,020 --> 00:46:01,600 Speaker 1: everybody's responsible for their own 984 00:46:02,380 --> 00:46:04,650 Speaker 1: position and own stance and 985 00:46:05,880 --> 00:46:09,290 Speaker 1: own views on things. So I didn't ever see it 986 00:46:09,290 --> 00:46:12,360 Speaker 1: as a problem that I had different views to the leader. 987 00:46:12,360 --> 00:46:14,399 Speaker 1: In fact, in some ways it was probably good because 988 00:46:14,400 --> 00:46:15,900 Speaker 1: it reflected the differences 989 00:46:16,680 --> 00:46:17,760 Speaker 1: across the Liberal Party. 990 00:46:17,770 --> 00:46:20,870 Speaker 2: Do you have to make those challenges or put forward 991 00:46:20,870 --> 00:46:24,009 Speaker 2: those counter arguments behind closed doors? 992 00:46:24,210 --> 00:46:27,489 Speaker 1: Well, generally, that's what leadership meetings and cabinet and party 993 00:46:27,489 --> 00:46:30,300 Speaker 1: room meetings are for. The party room is not as 994 00:46:30,300 --> 00:46:32,100 Speaker 1: confidential as one would like, but 995 00:46:32,280 --> 00:46:35,370 Speaker 1: most certainly leadership meetings in Cabinet meetings are an opportunity 996 00:46:35,370 --> 00:46:37,690 Speaker 1: to put different points of view, and that's important. You 997 00:46:37,690 --> 00:46:41,350 Speaker 1: have to have robust debates and challenge ideas and challenge 998 00:46:41,350 --> 00:46:44,400 Speaker 1: people's positions. So you get the best outcomes, and I 999 00:46:44,400 --> 00:46:47,410 Speaker 1: think that if you have a party full of yes, 1000 00:46:47,410 --> 00:46:49,550 Speaker 1: men or women, then you're not getting the best outcomes. 1001 00:46:49,550 --> 00:46:53,640 Speaker 1: You've got to have the debate about issues and values 1002 00:46:53,640 --> 00:46:54,320 Speaker 1: and ideas 1003 00:46:54,330 --> 00:46:57,000 Speaker 2: just to finish up your last day, 1004 00:46:57,080 --> 00:47:00,050 Speaker 2: you had quite a lot of time to think about 1005 00:47:00,050 --> 00:47:01,810 Speaker 2: what you're going to say, what you're going to wear. 1006 00:47:01,820 --> 00:47:04,029 Speaker 2: A lot of people said you were white to represent 1007 00:47:04,030 --> 00:47:05,000 Speaker 2: the suffragettes. 1008 00:47:06,280 --> 00:47:09,900 Speaker 1: There is symbolism in what you wear as a public 1009 00:47:09,900 --> 00:47:13,000 Speaker 1: figure without doubt, and I'm conscious of that. I don't 1010 00:47:13,380 --> 00:47:16,160 Speaker 1: get up in the morning and think Now, what statement 1011 00:47:16,160 --> 00:47:19,100 Speaker 1: shall I make today? Therefore I choose that. 1012 00:47:19,680 --> 00:47:21,410 Speaker 1: But I wanted him. 1013 00:47:22,180 --> 00:47:24,480 Speaker 1: I wanted to wear something that was fresh and bright 1014 00:47:24,480 --> 00:47:25,990 Speaker 1: and didn't meld into the 1015 00:47:26,380 --> 00:47:29,910 Speaker 1: green of the House of Representatives. Ugly, ugly green. 1016 00:47:30,280 --> 00:47:33,590 Speaker 1: Well, it's sort of a Tasmanian blue gum green, isn't it? 1017 00:47:33,600 --> 00:47:34,820 Speaker 1: How did you feel 1018 00:47:34,820 --> 00:47:36,280 Speaker 2: when you got up and spoke for about eight 1019 00:47:36,280 --> 00:47:36,950 Speaker 1: minutes? 1020 00:47:37,780 --> 00:47:41,629 Speaker 1: I had told the prime minister just prior to question 1021 00:47:41,630 --> 00:47:43,600 Speaker 1: time that I intended to 1022 00:47:43,980 --> 00:47:45,989 Speaker 1: announced that I wouldn't re contest the seat, 1023 00:47:46,380 --> 00:47:47,300 Speaker 1: I told the 1024 00:47:47,980 --> 00:47:50,270 Speaker 1: speaker of the House, and he said that he would 1025 00:47:50,270 --> 00:47:51,910 Speaker 1: give me time after question time. 1026 00:47:52,280 --> 00:47:53,830 Speaker 1: I thought the timing was right, 1027 00:47:54,280 --> 00:47:55,710 Speaker 1: and I 1028 00:47:56,380 --> 00:47:59,709 Speaker 1: simply made the announcement. It wasn't a valedictory. I didn't 1029 00:47:59,710 --> 00:48:00,489 Speaker 1: want to do the 1030 00:48:00,870 --> 00:48:05,719 Speaker 1: you know the legacy and and the perhaps somewhat self 1031 00:48:05,719 --> 00:48:10,470 Speaker 1: indulgent speech about what I'd achieved in my public life. 1032 00:48:10,469 --> 00:48:12,960 Speaker 1: I just wanted to say simply, thank you, that it 1033 00:48:12,960 --> 00:48:15,270 Speaker 1: had been an honor and a privilege, and I was 1034 00:48:15,280 --> 00:48:17,990 Speaker 1: a fortunate person to have been able to serve in 1035 00:48:17,989 --> 00:48:18,290 Speaker 1: the 1036 00:48:18,670 --> 00:48:21,490 Speaker 1: House of Representatives. Not many people get to do that 1037 00:48:21,969 --> 00:48:22,589 Speaker 1: in 1038 00:48:23,170 --> 00:48:26,200 Speaker 1: history. And so I was 1039 00:48:26,870 --> 00:48:30,090 Speaker 1: very. I felt very proud of what I've achieved and 1040 00:48:30,090 --> 00:48:31,400 Speaker 1: the fact that I 1041 00:48:31,770 --> 00:48:34,529 Speaker 1: fulfilled a dream, and that was to be Australia's foreign minister. 1042 00:48:34,560 --> 00:48:36,120 Speaker 2: You've got a standing ovation. 1043 00:48:37,360 --> 00:48:38,670 Speaker 1: I was very touched by that. 1044 00:48:38,730 --> 00:48:40,200 Speaker 2: But you didn't stick around 1045 00:48:40,670 --> 00:48:41,870 Speaker 2: well, it 1046 00:48:41,870 --> 00:48:45,439 Speaker 1: wasn't a valedictory, so I have made my announcement. And 1047 00:48:45,440 --> 00:48:48,350 Speaker 1: then I thought, It's time for me to go and 1048 00:48:48,360 --> 00:48:50,970 Speaker 1: I didn't appreciate that either the prime minister or the 1049 00:48:50,969 --> 00:48:52,760 Speaker 1: leader of the opposition was going to say, you know, 1050 00:48:52,760 --> 00:48:55,560 Speaker 1: we're going to stand and say something. Nobody told me 1051 00:48:55,560 --> 00:48:57,140 Speaker 1: that they were going to speak, so I was back 1052 00:48:57,140 --> 00:48:58,700 Speaker 1: in my office then. Whoops. 1053 00:48:58,969 --> 00:49:00,020 Speaker 1: They're all on TV. I 1054 00:49:00,020 --> 00:49:02,660 Speaker 2: mean, you said you felt relieved and all of those things. 1055 00:49:02,770 --> 00:49:04,290 Speaker 2: What's next? 1056 00:49:04,770 --> 00:49:06,589 Speaker 1: I will assist in 1057 00:49:06,969 --> 00:49:11,400 Speaker 1: campaigning in western Australia, and perhaps something in Victoria, 1058 00:49:11,940 --> 00:49:13,790 Speaker 1: and then I'll start 1059 00:49:14,370 --> 00:49:19,640 Speaker 1: considering options. People have been very generous with offers and proposals. 1060 00:49:19,650 --> 00:49:22,400 Speaker 1: I hope to do something in the private sector, maybe 1061 00:49:22,400 --> 00:49:25,680 Speaker 1: in academia, and most certainly will continue in philanthropic and 1062 00:49:25,690 --> 00:49:27,200 Speaker 1: charitable roles 1063 00:49:27,670 --> 00:49:31,700 Speaker 1: and a whole basket of things. And I want to 1064 00:49:31,700 --> 00:49:32,589 Speaker 1: keep very busy. 1065 00:49:33,170 --> 00:49:35,980 Speaker 1: I'm sure I will and do a whole range of 1066 00:49:35,980 --> 00:49:37,400 Speaker 1: things that have, 1067 00:49:38,070 --> 00:49:38,490 Speaker 1: um, 1068 00:49:38,870 --> 00:49:42,330 Speaker 1: the ability to drive my energy and passion. 1069 00:49:42,770 --> 00:49:44,350 Speaker 1: So I'm looking forward to it with a great deal 1070 00:49:44,350 --> 00:49:46,700 Speaker 1: of optimism and excitement, even 1071 00:49:48,370 --> 00:49:52,160 Speaker 2: thanks for listening to no filter. After we recorded that chat, 1072 00:49:52,170 --> 00:49:54,859 Speaker 2: Julie came straight out into the mom and their office 1073 00:49:54,860 --> 00:49:57,669 Speaker 2: and was an enormously good sport for all the selfies 1074 00:49:57,670 --> 00:50:01,050 Speaker 2: we wanted to take. In fact, she directed the selfies. 1075 00:50:01,050 --> 00:50:03,810 Speaker 2: She's very good at it. She gathered us all together 1076 00:50:03,810 --> 00:50:05,989 Speaker 2: in a group they were about, I don't know, 50 1077 00:50:05,989 --> 00:50:07,950 Speaker 2: of us that all wanted our photo taken 1078 00:50:08,260 --> 00:50:12,320 Speaker 2: and she was like, You move over here, you're getting 1079 00:50:12,320 --> 00:50:14,640 Speaker 2: closer over there. And she sat down on the floor 1080 00:50:14,640 --> 00:50:17,549 Speaker 2: in those incredibly beautiful high heels that she was wearing. 1081 00:50:17,560 --> 00:50:20,490 Speaker 2: And she's just an absolute delight, 1082 00:50:20,860 --> 00:50:24,489 Speaker 2: So it'll be really interesting to see what she does next. 1083 00:50:25,160 --> 00:50:28,380 Speaker 2: Next week, on No Filter, David Gillespie joins me to 1084 00:50:28,380 --> 00:50:31,489 Speaker 2: talk about the way in which screen addiction is rewiring 1085 00:50:31,489 --> 00:50:34,630 Speaker 2: the brains of a generation and what we can do 1086 00:50:34,630 --> 00:50:38,200 Speaker 2: about it. If you liked hearing that conversation with Julie 1087 00:50:38,200 --> 00:50:41,779 Speaker 2: and want more Australian politics and news and current affairs 1088 00:50:41,860 --> 00:50:45,200 Speaker 2: and really the stories behind all of those things, 1089 00:50:45,460 --> 00:50:49,400 Speaker 2: listen to our episode of our daily Show, the quickie 1090 00:50:49,410 --> 00:50:53,070 Speaker 2: about whether or not the Liberal Party have a woman problem. 1091 00:50:53,080 --> 00:50:57,359 Speaker 2: Spoiler alert. They do search the quickie liberal in your 1092 00:50:57,360 --> 00:51:00,420 Speaker 2: podcast app will follow the links in our show Notes. 1093 00:51:00,430 --> 00:51:04,569 Speaker 2: No filter is produced by Eliza Ratliff. I'm Mayor Friedman, 1094 00:51:04,660 --> 00:51:06,690 Speaker 2: and I'll see you on Mamma Mia. 1095 00:51:07,160 --> 00:51:07,379 Speaker 2: Yeah.