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Speaker 1: You're listening to a mother and Mere podcast.

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Speaker 2: Guys, this is just a bit of a PSA.

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Speaker 3: I know it's busy. I know we're in this frantic

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Speaker 3: run to Christmas. Everyone's got a lot on.

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Speaker 2: You know, there's.

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Speaker 3: Concerts, their dance concerts.

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Speaker 2: There's a lot on.

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Speaker 3: You're running your elderly parents around her appointments. You've got

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Speaker 3: presents to buy, You've got Chris Kringles to participate.

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Speaker 2: There's a lot on.

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Speaker 3: All right, there's a lot on. But guys, you cannot

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Speaker 3: miss a recycling bin cycle in the lead up to Christmas.

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Speaker 3: All right, You've got to stay on top of that ship,

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Speaker 3: because if you miss a recycling bin cycle in these

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Speaker 3: weeks before Christmas, then you are You're fucked till May.

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Speaker 1: Who is that legend?

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Speaker 4: What a good PSA is Kate McClellan, the comedian, And

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Speaker 4: since seeing that, I've thought about it several times. Thank

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Speaker 4: you for the PSA. It's what we all need right now.

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Speaker 2: It really is.

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Speaker 4: Welcome to Parenting out Loud, the podcast for people who

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Speaker 4: don't always listen to parenting podcasts. We unpack the news,

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Speaker 4: the trends, the culture, and what parents are thinking about.

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Speaker 4: I'm gonna eat Bowlie.

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Speaker 1: I'm Amelia Laston and I'm Stacy Kidds.

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Speaker 5: And on the show today, there's a mum trend going

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Speaker 5: around that's about not really looking like a mum at all.

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Speaker 2: And remember when there was a toy of the year.

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Speaker 6: Now it feels like we've moved to know toys as

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Speaker 6: the ultimate status symbol.

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Speaker 2: We're going to unpack the new rules of gifting.

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Speaker 4: And how did gentle parenting go from trendy to becoming

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Speaker 4: now the worst way to raise your kids? But first, Stacy, Stacy, Stacy,

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Speaker 4: what did you click on this week?

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Speaker 6: Can I just say that I imagine Stacey's setting off

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Speaker 6: for the planes of the Internet on every Monday, like

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Speaker 6: with a Safari hat and a Safari suit on, and

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Speaker 6: she's just like picking up interesting things for us to

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Speaker 6: sort of pour over on parenting out loud.

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Speaker 5: That's exactly what I do looking through my window that

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Speaker 5: Internet explorer. I am. Well, this week, I've got a

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Speaker 5: little bit of sculess gossip, which you probably thought I

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Speaker 5: was above, but I am not. But I have hard

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Speaker 5: evidence for this gossip. So that's what makes it good

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Speaker 5: when you know that there's a little grain of truth

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Speaker 5: in there.

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Speaker 1: So Ashley Tisdale.

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Speaker 5: She played Sharpe Evans in high school musical like she

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Speaker 5: played the mean girl brilliantly.

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Speaker 1: She was awesome.

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Speaker 5: So she has written a blog post which is very retro.

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Speaker 5: I feel I feel like not enough of the celebrities

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Speaker 5: are doing blog posts anymore. They're all over on substack.

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Speaker 5: But she's got her own blog called by Ashley French,

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Speaker 5: which is her new last name, and it's called You're

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Speaker 5: Allowed to Leave your Mum Group or your Mom Group,

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Speaker 5: And she's written about how she joined a mum group

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Speaker 5: in twenty twenty to keep saying mom, Okay, it's.

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Speaker 1: Mom from now on.

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Speaker 5: She joined a mom group in twenty twenty one after

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Speaker 5: the birth of her first daughter, but says that it

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Speaker 5: quickly turned toxic as the kids started to grow. So

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Speaker 5: she says she started to notice that certain people would

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Speaker 5: get talked about when they weren't present and not in

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Speaker 5: a positive way. That there were group text change that

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Speaker 5: didn't include everyone, and she said, when I noticed the

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Speaker 5: third or fourth time of seeing social media photos of

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Speaker 5: everyone else at a hangout that I didn't get invited to,

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Speaker 5: it felt like I wasn't really part of the group

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Speaker 5: at all. So she made the decision to walk away,

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Speaker 5: and she's encouraging people to do the same, which is great.

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Speaker 5: But this sent people on a little bit of like

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Speaker 5: a man hunt or a mom hunt as it were,

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Speaker 5: to figure out which mom group this was because she

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Speaker 5: was in a very public mom group with Mandy Moore,

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Speaker 5: Hillary Duff, and Megan Trainer, so all like the la

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Speaker 5: the millennial Selarial moms are all in a group and

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Speaker 5: they used to all post about each other all the time.

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Speaker 5: But people noticed that January was the last time Ashley

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Speaker 5: posted about them. And I know you're going to say, Stacey,

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Speaker 5: you're a journalist, get a grip. You can just go

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Speaker 5: from January to December without posting your friends on social media.

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Speaker 1: It's okay.

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Speaker 5: But people notice that she deleted an Instagram post that

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Speaker 5: had all of the moms in it, where it said

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Speaker 5: I love being surrounded.

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Speaker 1: By these ladies.

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Speaker 5: What an amazing group of women to journey through this

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Speaker 5: momhood together with.

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Speaker 1: So grateful for this trip.

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Speaker 6: It is a law that you have to refer to

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Speaker 6: a group of women. The collective now for it on

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Speaker 6: social media is a group of ladies.

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Speaker 1: It is ladies.

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Speaker 5: And my final piece of evidence she now no longer

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Speaker 5: follows Mandy Moore on Instagram.

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Speaker 2: I hate this because Mandy seems so nicey.

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Speaker 6: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.

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Speaker 1: I know, I'm.

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Speaker 6: Yeah young you know, Younger is coming to Netflix and

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Speaker 6: it's the greatest TV show of all times.

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Speaker 5: It really is rewatches in order. But yeah, so something's

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Speaker 5: going down with the mom group. We don't know exactly what,

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Speaker 5: but it seems pretty legit.

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Speaker 6: What's it like to be in a mom group? Even

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Speaker 6: if Hillary Duff isn't in it.

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Speaker 1: It's weird.

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Speaker 4: There's no other example in life where you get put

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Speaker 4: together with a random group of people. So I got

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Speaker 4: put together in a mum's group from my council area.

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Speaker 4: It's like, imagine if you had a kavoodle and you

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Speaker 4: go to the vet and the vet goes, hey, twelve

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Speaker 4: other people have all had a kvoodle as well, and

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Speaker 4: now you're gonna meet every Thursday morning to talk about

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Speaker 4: your kvoodle. Like it's just it's weird.

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Speaker 2: It's weird.

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Speaker 4: It's actually even weird, and it's weirdly competitive. I found

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Speaker 4: it weirdly competitive and it wasn't my jam.

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Speaker 6: It's actually even weirder than the kavoodle example because at

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Speaker 6: least if you like chose to get a kavoodle, that's

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Speaker 6: probably saying something about you or as having a baby

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Speaker 6: is literally the most common thing that.

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Speaker 2: Is in the world.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's and that's the only thing bonding you.

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Speaker 5: People love them though, Like I know friends who are

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Speaker 5: still friends with their mum's group ten twenty years down

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Speaker 5: the track.

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Speaker 2: And they always have long lunches together.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, like I love that. But yeah I totally missed

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Speaker 1: that boat.

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Speaker 4: I think it's the exception. But that isping hot is it?

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Speaker 4: Thank you so much that Do you imagine how the

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Speaker 4: group chat was when they saw the blog.

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Speaker 2: They would have been like.

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Speaker 5: The group chat that would have been great and she

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Speaker 5: definitely would have been left out of that one without

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Speaker 5: Ashley in it. So remember how they used to be

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Speaker 5: a toy of the year every Christmas and it was

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Speaker 5: the one that all the parents needed to get their

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Speaker 5: hands on. That was the big status symbols.

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Speaker 1: Look a ferbie, Yeah, that's what I want.

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Speaker 2: To tickle me Elmo.

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Speaker 6: I think I wasn't playing attentionion because I didn't have

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Speaker 6: kids at the time, but that was my sense that

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Speaker 6: there was always this really important toy that the parents

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Speaker 6: who wanted to show they were going above and beyond

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Speaker 6: secured for their kids. Well, now, I think that there's

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Speaker 6: been a real cultural shift and there are now two

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Speaker 6: types of millennial parents. This was also discussed in a

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Speaker 6: recent Card article. There are the ones who shower their

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Speaker 6: children with presents and posted on richtop, and then there

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Speaker 6: are the parents who has perp cut and not gifting

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Speaker 6: at all. And they're not doing it because they can't

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Speaker 6: afford to. That's not what talking about here. These parents

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Speaker 6: cite environmental concerns, a desire to.

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Speaker 2: Shield their kids from materialism.

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Speaker 6: And they also admit that it is a little bit

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Speaker 6: of a flex to have this blank space below your

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Speaker 6: Christmas tree because it means that your kids don't need anything.

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Speaker 2: Mond's is this you?

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Speaker 4: I read this article in the cut. It's diabolically fascinating.

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Speaker 4: Is it not?

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Speaker 2: Like? So good?

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Speaker 4: What they're saying is they are so privileged that they

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Speaker 4: are above buying their children things. It's the ultimate parenting

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Speaker 4: flex to buy nothing at all. That is so weird.

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Speaker 4: Can you help me understand this point?

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Speaker 2: Yes?

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Speaker 6: So, the article talks about how a lot of dual

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Speaker 6: income families fall into the show your kid with Gifts

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Speaker 6: camp because they're kind of seeking to compensate for their

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Speaker 6: lack of presence. I mean, this is just what the

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Speaker 6: experts say. It's certainly not what I do. And also

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Speaker 6: the ones who are not gifting tend to be those

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Speaker 6: who have made a lifestyle at a spending time with

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Speaker 6: their kids and documenting it on social media, like it's

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Speaker 6: kind of their job to spend time with their kids.

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Speaker 2: A lot of these parents, I was reminded of this.

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Speaker 6: I think this is a real thing because I don't

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Speaker 6: know if either of you caught The Duchess of Sussex's

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Speaker 6: Christmas special recently on Netflix. No.

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Speaker 1: I swiped right past that Amelia and watch Kpop demon.

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Speaker 6: Hunt Dying, And in that show, she makes a cloth

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Speaker 6: Advent calendar and she fills it with handwritten affirmations rather

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Speaker 6: than just, you know, one of those chocolate Advent calendars

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Speaker 6: you get from old.

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Speaker 4: Needs to have listened to this show where I talked

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Speaker 4: about that a few weeks ago, where I was like,

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Speaker 4: I tried to do that in year one of Christmas

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Speaker 4: and my kids were like, give it a.

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Speaker 6: Chocolate And then it got me thinking about maybe these

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Speaker 6: parents have a point though, because at first I recoiled,

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Speaker 6: but then it turns out that we're not even sure.

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Speaker 2: That gifts make kids happy.

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Speaker 6: Like that feels kind of intuitively true when you think

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Speaker 6: about it, Like kids are not happy when they open

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Speaker 6: their presents on Christmas. They're usually kind of stressed out.

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Speaker 6: What it's sort of sensory overload for kids to open

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Speaker 6: presents on Christmas, and sometimes they're not getting exactly what

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Speaker 6: they wanted, and it just feels like a stressful situation

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Speaker 6: rather than a like gratitude filled one.

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Speaker 4: We're not there yet, I can see how that would happen,

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Speaker 4: but we're very much in the happy years of it.

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Speaker 1: Of the gifts.

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Speaker 5: The bit that infuriated me in this article when we

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Speaker 5: were ready, it was the woman April Jackson, and she

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Speaker 5: was saying she's got four year old twins and she

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Speaker 5: was saying that they go without screens, sugar, and gifts,

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Speaker 5: which I take personal offense to because those are my

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Speaker 5: three favorite things in this world, first of all. But

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Speaker 5: it's just that she said, I want my children to

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Speaker 5: value people, not things, And that's the part that's so irritating,

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Speaker 5: Like they are using their privilege to be like, well,

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Speaker 5: my kids are above that. My kids would never demand

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Speaker 5: a certain gift like, do you think that's what it is?

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Speaker 2: Well, I'm going to have to drag in some science.

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Speaker 1: Here, please and drag away.

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Speaker 6: There's a paper called what makes for a Merry Christmas

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Speaker 6: Buy to psychology professors, and they found that adults whose

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Speaker 6: holidays revolve around gifts were more stressed and less happy

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Speaker 6: than those who focused on family or religion. Have you

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Speaker 6: ever thought about focusing on family or religion? Stacy Clatter

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Speaker 6: spikes mum's cortisol and toddler's play creatively with fewer toys.

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Speaker 6: There's a recent New Yorker cover that really summed this

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Speaker 6: up for me. There's a baby who's surrounded by all

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Speaker 6: these brand new toys, and the baby is playing with

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Speaker 6: the Amazon box that they came in, and that just

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Speaker 6: kind of like sums up that approach.

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Speaker 4: Can we also talk about good toys versus bad toys?

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Speaker 4: Because how you gift and what you gift can also

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Speaker 4: be this status symbol, and no one talks about this,

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Speaker 4: but once you start pulling on this thread, this is

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Speaker 4: really interesting because there is this unspoken belief that some

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Speaker 4: toys make you a better parent, and some toys make

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Speaker 4: you a bit kind of peg you as more of

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Speaker 4: a chaotic energy kind of parent. So a good toy

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Speaker 4: is usually seen as something wooden. It's very montessory coded

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Speaker 4: or open ended. And an open ended toy is a

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Speaker 4: toy that can be played in any number of ways.

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Speaker 4: So things like how a wooden block could be made

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Speaker 4: into a building, or it could be a racing car,

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Speaker 4: how lago sets can be pulled apart built into other things,

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Speaker 4: or those you know, those kinetics magnetic tiles that it

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Speaker 4: be a.

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Speaker 1: Million differd things.

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Speaker 4: Open ended toys, they can be a bit stem coded,

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Speaker 4: but they're about creativity and playing with them in a

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Speaker 4: lot of different ways. They're seen as a good toy

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Speaker 4: to have. The other thing about a good toy is

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Speaker 4: that I'm putting that in like little you know finger marks,

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Speaker 4: is they can be bloody expensive. And this high price

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Speaker 4: is another code for like o, Well, it must be good,

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Speaker 4: it must be valuable, it must be worth something. Bad toys,

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Speaker 4: on the other hand, are cheap, loud, plastic, key, cluttery,

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Speaker 4: They break, and they're often closed ended, so there's only

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Speaker 4: one way to play with them, so they read as

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Speaker 4: lesser even if kids adore them. So this is not

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Speaker 4: my idea. Where did this idea come from there was

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Speaker 4: a substack. I read on culture study this interview with

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Speaker 4: Alexander Lang, and she's like an art and she wrote

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Speaker 4: a book called The Design of Childhood, and she said,

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Speaker 4: this is a massive hangover from the nineteen fifties. Little

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Speaker 4: history lesson for you. So in the fifties, that was

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Speaker 4: when parenting books started telling mums that they should be

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Speaker 4: playing with their kids on the floor all day. But

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Speaker 4: obviously mums had to cook and clean and run a

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Speaker 4: house and whatever and work. So toy companies swooped in.

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Speaker 4: There was like a big consumer boom in the nineteen fifties.

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Speaker 4: It was postwar. Everyone was spending money again, and toy

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Speaker 4: companies said, hey, if you buy this toy, it'll teach

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Speaker 4: your child for you. So Parents magazine had a column

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Speaker 4: called Toys that Teach and Play School marketed itself as

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Speaker 4: toys that build kids, and so these good toys were

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Speaker 4: framed as like educational and character building and creativity enhancing.

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Speaker 4: She talks about how Lago had to work really hard

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Speaker 4: to prove that because they were a plastic toy, they

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Speaker 4: had to prove that they could still be good. They

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Speaker 4: had to really double down on the marketing messages of

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Speaker 4: like Danish design and craftsmanship and durability and on violence.

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Speaker 4: So when we talk about good gifts versus bad gifts,

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Speaker 4: we're kind of talking about the parent, it says we are.

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Speaker 4: Do you feel that as well?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, totally.

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Speaker 5: There's so much pressure on getting the right gifts, and

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Speaker 5: there's also don't you feel like there's almost like a

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Speaker 5: pressure now of the big gift?

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Speaker 1: Like I feel like I see that a.

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Speaker 5: Lot, as in like, oh, you get them a lot

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Speaker 5: of little things and a lot of useful things, but

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Speaker 5: what's the big gift like? And it almost feels like

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Speaker 5: that's performative, that's performative for social media to be like

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Speaker 5: I got them the trampoline or the motorized bike for

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Speaker 5: a three year old, Like it is getting ridiculous and

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Speaker 5: out of hand. So I kind of love have you

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Speaker 5: seen around now this trend to kind of I think

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Speaker 5: it's parents kind of clawing back into a middle ground

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Speaker 5: between this very privileged we're not giving them anything and

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Speaker 5: this over the top halls where they're doing like category

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Speaker 5: tags for the gifts. So there's like something you need,

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Speaker 5: something to read, something to wear, something to share, and

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Speaker 5: something to do. Stop and even that's hard work. It's

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Speaker 5: because so much you're categorizing, isn't it.

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Speaker 4: I like that. I think that's a really good framework

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Speaker 4: for gifting. And I use that every year something they want,

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Speaker 4: something they need, something to wear, something to read.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, so you can kind of limit yourself and stop

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Speaker 5: yourself from going out and buying a million things to

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Speaker 5: like fill that void of guilt.

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Speaker 6: I also think that this whole conversation tends to revolve

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Speaker 6: around parents and what gifts say about parents, rather.

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Speaker 2: Than thinking about what kids might want.

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Speaker 6: Yeah. And I was reading the comments on the cart article,

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Speaker 6: and there were a lot of comments from people with

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Speaker 6: older kids who said, A, you know who we don't

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Speaker 6: hear from in this article is kids from those gift households.

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Speaker 2: We're just hearing from the parents. And B As your

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Speaker 2: kid gets.

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Speaker 6: Older and they're comparing their whole with other kids, it's

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Speaker 6: going to become harder to sustain that no gift household.

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Speaker 2: And that made a lot of sense to Yeah.

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Speaker 6: But you know that conversation of like trying to minimize

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Speaker 6: the materialism of Christmas that has been increasing in intensity

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Speaker 6: in recent years.

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Speaker 2: And there was a recent New.

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Speaker 6: Yorker article that talked about the eighteen Letters project. And

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Speaker 6: this is whereby an orphan named Jene Darst talked about

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Speaker 6: how instead of giving her child a gift on her

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Speaker 6: child's birthday, she wrote him a letter every year on

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Speaker 6: his birthday for eighteen years, and then she presented it

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Speaker 6: to him as an eighteenth birthday present.

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Speaker 2: Now that's a lovely.

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Speaker 6: Idea, And you know, I teared up at various points

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Speaker 6: in the article and also felt guilty that I'm not

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Speaker 6: doing an eighteen letters project. But what was really telling

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Speaker 6: about this article is that when she finally gave him

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Speaker 6: the eighteen letters on his eighteenth birthday, it's very apparent

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Speaker 6: from this article that he felt a little bit awkward

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Speaker 6: about it and that he didn't quite know what to

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Speaker 6: do with it. I loved that she kept that in

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Speaker 6: as well, a sense that she wanted him to say,

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Speaker 6: oh my god, mom, this is the best thing anyone

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Speaker 6: could have given me, a set of reflections.

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Speaker 2: On parenting me through the eighteen years.

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Speaker 6: But he felt almost a little embarrassed, and by her

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Speaker 6: own telling, he kind of put it away, and she

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Speaker 6: wonders whether or not he's actually he actually wanted it.

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Speaker 2: And it wasn't sad.

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Speaker 6: It was more just about when you give a gift,

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Speaker 6: aren't you trying to think about what the person who

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Speaker 6: wants the gift actually wants rather than what you want

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Speaker 6: out of the interaction. And that's what made the article

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Speaker 6: so interesting.

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Speaker 5: I think that's why I get annoyed at these no

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Speaker 5: gift parents, because I'm like, you're doing that for you,

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Speaker 5: because that makes you look good to say like it

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Speaker 5: feels so tried. Wife coded almost to be like, if

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Speaker 5: you just spent all this quality time with your children,

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Speaker 5: then you could raise them to not be so greedy

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Speaker 5: and to just want to enjoy time. And when she

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Speaker 5: said that, I want them to enjoy people, not things,

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Speaker 5: It's like, that's very privileged to be able to do

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Speaker 5: that and to be able to say that, whereas for

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Speaker 5: a parent who doesn't have the means and is desperately

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Speaker 5: trying to scramble together enough gifts for their child at Christmas,

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Speaker 5: that is their literal nightmare to not be able to

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Speaker 5: give them those things. So, yeah, you're right, so much

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Speaker 5: of it is focused on what the parent wants and

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Speaker 5: not actually what that kid wants at all.

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Speaker 4: I noticed this year both of my kids came home

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Speaker 4: from school and their classmates had gifted them something so

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Speaker 4: they'd take it hole like it was tiny little plastic

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Speaker 4: things of bubbles or squishy toys or a wind up

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Speaker 4: father Christmas that walks along and I find that interesting,

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Speaker 4: like who's driving that? Our parents driving that? Like, let's

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Speaker 4: give everyone in your class something? And I don't know

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Speaker 4: how to feel about it. I think I'm trying not

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Speaker 4: to be like morally superior about it because I don't

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Speaker 4: want the clutter in my house. I wish no one

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Speaker 4: would do it, but I kind of wish the school

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Speaker 4: would come in and say, hey, instead of spending money

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Speaker 4: on these little things for your classmates, that's so lovely.

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Speaker 4: Instead we're going to do just cards, or we're just

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Speaker 4: going to write a beautiful message to our I don't know,

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Speaker 4: am I asking too much?

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Speaker 1: No, I'm noticing that two monds.

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Speaker 5: It definitely does feel like there almost needs to be

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Speaker 5: like an etiquette check in now, because I feel like

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Speaker 5: everyone's gone too far and not now giving each other.

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Speaker 5: I'm getting the same like every other day, a tiny

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Speaker 5: little bubble or a tiny little candy cane is coming home,

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Speaker 5: and then I'm now in a panic of do I

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Speaker 5: have to do that back? I guess I do, But

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Speaker 5: then I'm again doing that so that I look good

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Speaker 5: to the other parents. The kids don't care, you know,

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Speaker 5: it's discarded basically as soon as.

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Speaker 1: They get home.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: But you know how like in New.

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Speaker 5: South Wales, the teachers they have to declare if they

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Speaker 5: get a present over fifty bucks.

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Speaker 6: Seen.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, so they have to declare if they get a

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Speaker 5: gift that's worth more than fifty dollars, they can keep it.

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Speaker 5: They just have to declare if they get something that's

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Speaker 5: over that amount. And I feel like we almost need

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Speaker 5: that for everyone, Like it needs to be like, okay, work, colleague,

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Speaker 5: twenty bucks tops, that's it. Kids at school cards only,

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Speaker 5: mother in law's twenty bucks, like whatever it is. I

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Speaker 5: feel like we just need like a nationwide agreement on

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Speaker 5: the amounts and then that would keep everyone in check. Yeah.

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Speaker 6: The only thing I want to pause on there is

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Speaker 6: that I'm arranging a group present for one of my

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Speaker 6: kid's teachers. But in addition, my kids really fixated on

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Speaker 6: the stadea of giving a teachers a chocolate bar, like

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Speaker 6: a sort of one of those ones you get at

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Speaker 6: the markets. They really wanted to do it. So I

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Speaker 6: just wonder if kids sometimes they have less of a

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Speaker 6: vocabulary than us. They have less of a budget than us,

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Speaker 6: and they have less control over their time than us.

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Speaker 6: So maybe in some cases, a child giving a present,

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Speaker 6: whether it's a candy came to the class or chocolate

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Speaker 6: to the teacher, is them trying to express what that

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Speaker 6: person means to do.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe, Stacy.

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Speaker 4: I saw a trend on TikTok this week and I'm old.

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Speaker 4: I need you to explain it to me. I don't

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Speaker 4: get things. It's called alt moms. Yeah, alt mom, what's

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Speaker 4: an alt mom?

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Speaker 5: This is where I went out with my Dora Explorer

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Speaker 5: backpack into the Internet, as you spoke about earlier, to

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Speaker 5: get all the information, gather it and bring it back

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Speaker 5: to you both. So obviously, like society loves putting a tag, specifically,

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Speaker 5: TikTok loves putting a tag on people like crunchy mom.

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Speaker 5: It's like in overdrive. But there's this subset of mums

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Speaker 5: who are now at like claiming this title as their

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Speaker 5: own and I really love it. So they're kind of

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Speaker 5: embracing that. When you say old mums, it's like that punk,

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Speaker 5: grunge emo aesthetic alternative. He used to see a lot

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Speaker 5: of you know, goths growing up and where of all

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Speaker 5: the goths? Yeah, where have all the goth's gone? Kind

441
00:20:25,074 --> 00:20:27,714
Speaker 5: of like, yeah, they've gone and had kids. But I

442
00:20:27,754 --> 00:20:31,514
Speaker 5: think if you looked at it, you would think and

443
00:20:31,674 --> 00:20:34,513
Speaker 5: they obviously feel this pressure from what I'm seeing, that

444
00:20:34,954 --> 00:20:38,674
Speaker 5: they expect women who then become mothers to almost dilute

445
00:20:38,674 --> 00:20:41,794
Speaker 5: that down. Like when you think of a classic mum

446
00:20:41,794 --> 00:20:43,914
Speaker 5: in your head, that is probably not what you think

447
00:20:43,954 --> 00:20:46,754
Speaker 5: of someone dressed in black with the dyet hair and

448
00:20:46,794 --> 00:20:48,994
Speaker 5: the tattoos and a lot of piercings. That's probably not

449
00:20:49,034 --> 00:20:52,234
Speaker 5: what comes to your mind. And so there's a lot

450
00:20:52,234 --> 00:20:55,154
Speaker 5: of women now, particularly this one called at that old

451
00:20:55,274 --> 00:20:57,954
Speaker 5: mum who's sharing a lot of images of herself when

452
00:20:57,994 --> 00:21:00,834
Speaker 5: she felt pregnant, kind of saying like I tried to

453
00:21:00,874 --> 00:21:03,714
Speaker 5: completely dilute down who I was. I stopped dyeing my hair,

454
00:21:03,794 --> 00:21:06,513
Speaker 5: I started wearing neutrals. I didn't know what I was

455
00:21:06,514 --> 00:21:08,634
Speaker 5: supposed to be because I had this new identity as

456
00:21:08,634 --> 00:21:10,434
Speaker 5: a mum. And then when her daughter was a couple

457
00:21:10,474 --> 00:21:12,474
Speaker 5: of years old, she just leant right back into it

458
00:21:12,554 --> 00:21:15,034
Speaker 5: and was like, this is my expression of myself. This

459
00:21:15,074 --> 00:21:17,553
Speaker 5: is my expression of fashion and who I am, and

460
00:21:17,594 --> 00:21:20,634
Speaker 5: it's absolutely fine. To be dressing that way and be

461
00:21:20,674 --> 00:21:23,793
Speaker 5: a mother. The two things are not mutually exclusive. And

462
00:21:23,874 --> 00:21:26,793
Speaker 5: I love that because why isn't that what we see

463
00:21:26,834 --> 00:21:27,274
Speaker 5: as a mum.

464
00:21:27,594 --> 00:21:29,754
Speaker 4: Did you go through the linen stage you start wearing

465
00:21:29,794 --> 00:21:31,354
Speaker 4: linen when you became a mom?

466
00:21:31,954 --> 00:21:32,033
Speaker 5: No?

467
00:21:32,274 --> 00:21:34,514
Speaker 6: Yeah, I tried it, but I just it was very

468
00:21:34,514 --> 00:21:35,274
Speaker 6: home maintenance.

469
00:21:35,594 --> 00:21:37,874
Speaker 2: Did you do it so high hated? Yeah?

470
00:21:37,914 --> 00:21:41,194
Speaker 4: And also just no one ever looks good in sorry

471
00:21:41,234 --> 00:21:41,714
Speaker 4: they don't.

472
00:21:41,954 --> 00:21:44,674
Speaker 6: I once wore a short sleeved white linen shirt into

473
00:21:44,754 --> 00:21:47,754
Speaker 6: Mom and Mia and MEA Friedman just came up to

474
00:21:47,794 --> 00:21:49,834
Speaker 6: me and said, you got to get that off. Why

475
00:21:50,074 --> 00:21:52,793
Speaker 6: because she said that over forty you should not be

476
00:21:52,834 --> 00:21:54,714
Speaker 6: wearing a short sleeve linen shirt.

477
00:21:54,794 --> 00:21:56,514
Speaker 1: Oh the rules for me Friedman.

478
00:21:56,554 --> 00:21:59,554
Speaker 2: I love it because she was right.

479
00:21:59,634 --> 00:22:02,954
Speaker 4: Of course, when you're hot, though, it's very nice and airy.

480
00:22:03,314 --> 00:22:05,834
Speaker 5: But it only looks good for the first five seconds

481
00:22:05,874 --> 00:22:09,033
Speaker 5: of you leaving their Otherwise you just look like a

482
00:22:09,034 --> 00:22:10,194
Speaker 5: crumpled pillowcase.

483
00:22:10,554 --> 00:22:11,273
Speaker 1: So I hate it.

484
00:22:11,314 --> 00:22:14,234
Speaker 6: No, I love this. This would be easy to all

485
00:22:14,314 --> 00:22:16,714
Speaker 6: black and a little bit of a tangent. But I

486
00:22:16,794 --> 00:22:19,954
Speaker 6: noticed that you said that when she fell pregnant. And

487
00:22:20,034 --> 00:22:22,674
Speaker 6: I have an American friend who religiously listens to this

488
00:22:22,834 --> 00:22:26,074
Speaker 6: a dad. He pointed out to me that fell pregnant

489
00:22:26,114 --> 00:22:30,234
Speaker 6: is an australianism. Oh wow, because in the US it's

490
00:22:30,314 --> 00:22:34,074
Speaker 6: less euphimistic. It's like when she was pregnant or when okay,

491
00:22:34,354 --> 00:22:37,874
Speaker 6: she got pregnant, like whoops and yeah, he sort of

492
00:22:38,114 --> 00:22:40,234
Speaker 6: speculated on the use of fell pregnant.

493
00:22:40,274 --> 00:22:42,114
Speaker 2: It's sort of like it's like serendipity.

494
00:22:42,314 --> 00:22:45,234
Speaker 1: You just felt it just happened.

495
00:22:44,834 --> 00:22:46,554
Speaker 2: Happened. You see.

496
00:22:47,154 --> 00:22:49,793
Speaker 4: A single Instagram post caught my attention this week, and

497
00:22:49,874 --> 00:22:54,194
Speaker 4: I want to talk about it because there's nothing particularly

498
00:22:54,274 --> 00:22:58,554
Speaker 4: special or groundbreaking about it. It's just five seconds long.

499
00:22:59,034 --> 00:23:01,194
Speaker 4: It's a woman patting her dogs on the head in

500
00:23:01,194 --> 00:23:04,994
Speaker 4: her Larne room, who cares. The static text overlaid on

501
00:23:05,034 --> 00:23:09,314
Speaker 4: it says this, I can spot gentle parenting kids because

502
00:23:09,314 --> 00:23:12,794
Speaker 4: I raised two of them. Ten years later, I'm having

503
00:23:12,794 --> 00:23:18,514
Speaker 4: to undo it. This five second Instagram reel now has,

504
00:23:18,594 --> 00:23:21,234
Speaker 4: at the time of recording, nine point three million views,

505
00:23:21,394 --> 00:23:25,234
Speaker 4: and suddenly every junkie site on the Internet is writing

506
00:23:25,314 --> 00:23:28,514
Speaker 4: stories about it. I saw it on the Daily Mail, Upworthy,

507
00:23:28,594 --> 00:23:33,194
Speaker 4: the Daily Dot Times of India headlines like mum regrets

508
00:23:33,274 --> 00:23:37,194
Speaker 4: gentle parenting after ten years of gentle parenting. Mother of

509
00:23:37,234 --> 00:23:41,074
Speaker 4: two admits she got it all wrong. This mum used

510
00:23:41,114 --> 00:23:45,114
Speaker 4: gentle parenting for ten years. Now she's trying to undo it.

511
00:23:45,754 --> 00:23:47,554
Speaker 4: And I want to talk about this because I feel

512
00:23:47,594 --> 00:23:51,594
Speaker 4: like my algorithm is this tide that's moving really quickly

513
00:23:51,674 --> 00:23:54,114
Speaker 4: away from gentle parenting. And it felt like a few

514
00:23:54,194 --> 00:23:57,194
Speaker 4: years ago, gentle parenting was kind of like this new trend.

515
00:23:57,194 --> 00:24:00,354
Speaker 4: It's like very engaging, while very different way to raise

516
00:24:00,354 --> 00:24:03,234
Speaker 4: your children. It had a lot of positive attention around it.

517
00:24:03,274 --> 00:24:06,714
Speaker 4: But now it's being framed as the worst thing you

518
00:24:06,754 --> 00:24:09,234
Speaker 4: can do few kids. Here is some of what my

519
00:24:09,274 --> 00:24:10,394
Speaker 4: instagram is fading me.

520
00:24:10,754 --> 00:24:11,634
Speaker 2: Gentle parenting.

521
00:24:11,954 --> 00:24:15,434
Speaker 6: I really do believe it is setting your children up

522
00:24:15,514 --> 00:24:17,074
Speaker 6: for failure in life.

523
00:24:17,314 --> 00:24:19,194
Speaker 1: Gentle parenting does not work.

524
00:24:19,394 --> 00:24:23,073
Speaker 4: Gentle parented kids give themselves away immediately.

525
00:24:23,354 --> 00:24:28,034
Speaker 5: Gentle parenting is bringing divorce on our children's futures, destroying

526
00:24:28,114 --> 00:24:31,594
Speaker 5: future relationships because it's just not life.

527
00:24:31,634 --> 00:24:35,034
Speaker 4: If a child can't tolerate no, it's because they weren't

528
00:24:35,074 --> 00:24:37,754
Speaker 4: trained to respect boundaries at home.

529
00:24:38,074 --> 00:24:40,874
Speaker 6: When that child becomes an adult, their boss isn't going

530
00:24:40,914 --> 00:24:41,954
Speaker 6: to get down to their level.

531
00:24:42,034 --> 00:24:42,954
Speaker 4: It doesn't work that way.

532
00:24:43,434 --> 00:24:44,634
Speaker 2: It is not effective.

533
00:24:44,754 --> 00:24:49,273
Speaker 6: It is not working, These children are spoiled, entitled.

534
00:24:49,634 --> 00:24:50,714
Speaker 2: I am getting.

535
00:24:50,354 --> 00:24:54,114
Speaker 6: Sick and tired of watching these kids be ruined by

536
00:24:54,154 --> 00:24:55,634
Speaker 6: this gentle kind of parenting.

537
00:24:55,874 --> 00:24:59,674
Speaker 4: Does gentle parenting has a massive PR problem?

538
00:25:00,114 --> 00:25:00,434
Speaker 1: Yes?

539
00:25:01,114 --> 00:25:03,033
Speaker 6: What do you think she meant by I'm trying to

540
00:25:03,114 --> 00:25:05,994
Speaker 6: undo it? Did she give us any more clues about that?

541
00:25:06,594 --> 00:25:09,074
Speaker 4: She's running an online course of course about how to

542
00:25:09,234 --> 00:25:12,833
Speaker 4: you know, parent in a different way that's not so gentle.

543
00:25:13,674 --> 00:25:17,674
Speaker 4: But I wonder if we just need to unpack why

544
00:25:17,914 --> 00:25:20,114
Speaker 4: this tide is moving away from it really quickly. And

545
00:25:20,114 --> 00:25:21,714
Speaker 4: I've got some theories, but I do want to know

546
00:25:21,754 --> 00:25:24,154
Speaker 4: from you guys, like when you hear the term gentle parenting,

547
00:25:24,194 --> 00:25:24,794
Speaker 4: what do you think?

548
00:25:25,274 --> 00:25:27,634
Speaker 5: I think it has a massive PR problem because I

549
00:25:27,674 --> 00:25:30,513
Speaker 5: think if you asked, like a gen X or a

550
00:25:30,514 --> 00:25:33,234
Speaker 5: boomer what they think gentle parenting is, they'd probably say

551
00:25:33,234 --> 00:25:35,754
Speaker 5: to you that you never smack and you never yell,

552
00:25:35,794 --> 00:25:37,834
Speaker 5: but you also just never tell them no, like they

553
00:25:37,874 --> 00:25:40,074
Speaker 5: would say, you just let your kids run wild and

554
00:25:40,154 --> 00:25:40,954
Speaker 5: do whatever they want.

555
00:25:41,354 --> 00:25:43,793
Speaker 1: But that's not meant to be what it is.

556
00:25:43,834 --> 00:25:46,474
Speaker 5: So I think the messaging's got lost somewhere along the

557
00:25:46,474 --> 00:25:48,714
Speaker 5: way that the lack of yelling should not be the

558
00:25:48,794 --> 00:25:51,954
Speaker 5: lack of discipline. Like all of the research says, and

559
00:25:51,994 --> 00:25:54,754
Speaker 5: all the people using this method are probably very researched

560
00:25:54,754 --> 00:25:57,674
Speaker 5: and you know, caring about what they're doing. Is that

561
00:25:57,874 --> 00:26:00,274
Speaker 5: kids need boundaries to feel safe. They need to butt

562
00:26:00,354 --> 00:26:02,994
Speaker 5: up against something and be told no and be pushed

563
00:26:03,034 --> 00:26:05,594
Speaker 5: back from that and get down off the chair if

564
00:26:05,634 --> 00:26:07,834
Speaker 5: you're going to hurt yourself. Those things. But what I

565
00:26:07,834 --> 00:26:10,474
Speaker 5: think has happened is that gentle parenting got co opted

566
00:26:10,594 --> 00:26:13,114
Speaker 5: by a lot of people who were either doing permissive

567
00:26:13,154 --> 00:26:17,514
Speaker 5: parenting or just not really parenting at all and being inattentive,

568
00:26:17,874 --> 00:26:20,474
Speaker 5: and so the definition of it has just gotten lost

569
00:26:20,714 --> 00:26:22,474
Speaker 5: to the point where I think people think that's what

570
00:26:22,514 --> 00:26:24,834
Speaker 5: it means, that you're just letting kids from the show.

571
00:26:24,594 --> 00:26:29,314
Speaker 4: To explain, there are sort of three generally recognized umbrellas

572
00:26:29,354 --> 00:26:34,114
Speaker 4: of parenting styles. There is permissive parenting, as you said, Stacy,

573
00:26:34,234 --> 00:26:37,554
Speaker 4: which is very loving and nurturing but no rules and

574
00:26:37,594 --> 00:26:41,474
Speaker 4: no boundaries. And at the other end of the spectrum,

575
00:26:41,474 --> 00:26:45,634
Speaker 4: we have authoritarian parenting. This is using fear and punishment

576
00:26:46,394 --> 00:26:49,714
Speaker 4: to get people to comply. But in the middle, this

577
00:26:49,754 --> 00:26:51,594
Speaker 4: is the sweet spot. This is what a lot of

578
00:26:51,674 --> 00:26:56,394
Speaker 4: experts says. The gold standard of parenting is authoritative, and

579
00:26:56,434 --> 00:26:58,634
Speaker 4: this is respectful parenting. So it takes a bit of

580
00:26:58,674 --> 00:27:01,394
Speaker 4: the respect from the permissive side, it takes a bit

581
00:27:01,434 --> 00:27:04,194
Speaker 4: of the boundaries from the authoritarian side, and it's this

582
00:27:04,354 --> 00:27:09,114
Speaker 4: middle path of authoritative so firm boundaries, but very loving

583
00:27:09,154 --> 00:27:12,714
Speaker 4: and kind. But I think where gentle parenting's going wrong,

584
00:27:13,154 --> 00:27:17,194
Speaker 4: Like it had good intentions, but it's very misunderstood and

585
00:27:17,314 --> 00:27:19,793
Speaker 4: it was supposed to fall under that broader umbrella of

586
00:27:19,834 --> 00:27:24,034
Speaker 4: authoritative parenting, But what's happening is it's just slipping into

587
00:27:24,114 --> 00:27:27,674
Speaker 4: permissive and I think that's where people are having a

588
00:27:27,714 --> 00:27:29,914
Speaker 4: major problem with it. But I wanted to ask you, Amelia,

589
00:27:29,954 --> 00:27:33,234
Speaker 4: because you're kind of like our geopolitical thermometer. A lot

590
00:27:33,274 --> 00:27:36,513
Speaker 4: of the pushback on gentle parenting is from, as you

591
00:27:36,554 --> 00:27:40,114
Speaker 4: heard in those clips, like Americans saying this is wo

592
00:27:40,274 --> 00:27:43,474
Speaker 4: this has left us, this is raising pussy children. Is

593
00:27:43,514 --> 00:27:45,874
Speaker 4: it an overreach to say that this is linked to

594
00:27:46,434 --> 00:27:48,634
Speaker 4: Trump and to politics at the moment.

595
00:27:48,674 --> 00:27:50,194
Speaker 2: I don't think it's an overreach at all.

596
00:27:50,274 --> 00:27:52,513
Speaker 6: I was struck by that too, that you're clearly just

597
00:27:52,554 --> 00:27:55,994
Speaker 6: getting served mostly American voices here saying that this is

598
00:27:56,074 --> 00:27:57,314
Speaker 6: out of step with the times.

599
00:27:57,674 --> 00:27:58,954
Speaker 2: There was a Wall Street Journal.

600
00:27:58,834 --> 00:28:02,754
Speaker 6: Article in July had the headline Goodbye gentle parenting, Hello,

601
00:28:02,874 --> 00:28:06,274
Speaker 6: fuck around and find out of FAFO. And the idea

602
00:28:06,314 --> 00:28:10,034
Speaker 6: of FAFO is that you elevate consequences because one rap

603
00:28:10,074 --> 00:28:13,594
Speaker 6: on gentle parenting is that children do not learn what

604
00:28:13,714 --> 00:28:16,754
Speaker 6: happens if they do break the rules. And with FAFO,

605
00:28:16,914 --> 00:28:18,914
Speaker 6: the idea is that you let them break the rules

606
00:28:18,954 --> 00:28:21,074
Speaker 6: and then deal with the consequences of that. So a

607
00:28:21,114 --> 00:28:23,714
Speaker 6: simple idea would be your kid doesn't want to wear

608
00:28:23,794 --> 00:28:26,354
Speaker 6: a jumper to school, so you say, okay, you don't

609
00:28:26,354 --> 00:28:27,793
Speaker 6: have to wear a jumper to school, and then they

610
00:28:27,794 --> 00:28:29,514
Speaker 6: go to school in their cold all day, so they

611
00:28:29,594 --> 00:28:31,914
Speaker 6: learn the next day to take the jumper to school.

612
00:28:32,394 --> 00:28:35,794
Speaker 6: The fa FA acolytes say that the reason why they've

613
00:28:35,834 --> 00:28:38,714
Speaker 6: switched over to it is because it is better preparing

614
00:28:38,834 --> 00:28:39,554
Speaker 6: kids for this.

615
00:28:39,594 --> 00:28:41,234
Speaker 2: Very harsh world that we live in.

616
00:28:41,274 --> 00:28:44,874
Speaker 6: Now, that's where I think that political element comes into it,

617
00:28:44,954 --> 00:28:48,914
Speaker 6: because we are living in a world where the whole

618
00:28:49,234 --> 00:28:54,274
Speaker 6: fuck your feelings right wing politics in the US prioritizes

619
00:28:54,634 --> 00:28:58,434
Speaker 6: a more authoritarian style. I think your spot on it's

620
00:28:58,474 --> 00:29:01,194
Speaker 6: a political thing. Parenting is political, and I think we're

621
00:29:01,234 --> 00:29:05,754
Speaker 6: seeing a trickle down now from politics into how people

622
00:29:05,754 --> 00:29:09,074
Speaker 6: want a parent under whether like another reason that it's

623
00:29:09,194 --> 00:29:12,474
Speaker 6: people are pulling back from it is just genuine exhaustion

624
00:29:12,834 --> 00:29:18,954
Speaker 6: as well, like two income households, nerves afraid, everyone's exhausted, and.

625
00:29:18,954 --> 00:29:21,314
Speaker 2: It's COVID too, yeah, post COVID two.

626
00:29:21,954 --> 00:29:23,194
Speaker 1: Like gentle parenting.

627
00:29:23,314 --> 00:29:25,914
Speaker 5: Sure, you know they're like, you know, let them have

628
00:29:25,994 --> 00:29:28,354
Speaker 5: the tantrum and then talk about the feelings afterwards.

629
00:29:28,594 --> 00:29:30,354
Speaker 1: You can't do that. If you need to get.

630
00:29:30,194 --> 00:29:32,074
Speaker 5: Out the door by a certain time, you can't have

631
00:29:32,114 --> 00:29:33,114
Speaker 5: that conversation at that time.

632
00:29:33,194 --> 00:29:34,034
Speaker 1: You've got to go.

633
00:29:34,474 --> 00:29:38,354
Speaker 5: So it feels like it's almost like a backlash of

634
00:29:38,474 --> 00:29:41,874
Speaker 5: just absolute exhaustion of Parentsh've tried this method for years

635
00:29:41,914 --> 00:29:44,714
Speaker 5: and gone, this is not working for me. It's like

636
00:29:44,754 --> 00:29:47,114
Speaker 5: they've suddenly looked around at this job they've been out

637
00:29:47,154 --> 00:29:49,554
Speaker 5: for years and gone, why did I stay here so long?

638
00:29:49,634 --> 00:29:50,554
Speaker 1: This didn't work for me?

639
00:29:50,794 --> 00:29:54,194
Speaker 5: Like I need to walk away, And so they're going, right,

640
00:29:54,234 --> 00:29:56,714
Speaker 5: I need to be fafo, I need to I need

641
00:29:56,754 --> 00:29:58,674
Speaker 5: to change something and make this work.

642
00:29:58,874 --> 00:30:01,154
Speaker 6: I agree with that, but I do think Mom's is

643
00:30:01,234 --> 00:30:03,634
Speaker 6: right that there's a bit of a sinister edge to it.

644
00:30:03,674 --> 00:30:07,514
Speaker 6: There's definitely a sense that we've swung the pendula from

645
00:30:07,554 --> 00:30:11,354
Speaker 6: a place where children were seen as figures deserving of

646
00:30:11,434 --> 00:30:15,994
Speaker 6: respect and autonomy to a point where they're seen more

647
00:30:16,194 --> 00:30:19,274
Speaker 6: as a less person for a person to control.

648
00:30:19,354 --> 00:30:21,034
Speaker 2: Now, I'm not saying that everyone who.

649
00:30:20,874 --> 00:30:28,074
Speaker 6: Practices fa FA or authoritarian parenting necessarily is maga, but

650
00:30:28,194 --> 00:30:31,234
Speaker 6: I am saying, as Mom said, there's a correlation there

651
00:30:31,274 --> 00:30:31,794
Speaker 6: for sure.

652
00:30:32,034 --> 00:30:32,354
Speaker 2: Yeah.

653
00:30:32,514 --> 00:30:37,154
Speaker 4: I think like Trump is all about strength and authoritarian

654
00:30:37,274 --> 00:30:42,314
Speaker 4: leadership and nostalgia as well, terms like make America great again.

655
00:30:42,954 --> 00:30:46,194
Speaker 4: Things were better back in the day, and so the

656
00:30:46,314 --> 00:30:51,834
Speaker 4: term gentle being seen as like soft and emotionally nuanced

657
00:30:51,914 --> 00:30:54,794
Speaker 4: is kind of It does feel like there's a pushback

658
00:30:54,834 --> 00:30:57,954
Speaker 4: against that, Like, is it just the term gentle that

659
00:30:57,994 --> 00:30:59,914
Speaker 4: people are pushing back against, Like I wonder if it

660
00:30:59,954 --> 00:31:03,354
Speaker 4: had been called boundary parenting, which is what it should be,

661
00:31:03,874 --> 00:31:05,714
Speaker 4: whether we would feel differently or.

662
00:31:05,754 --> 00:31:09,354
Speaker 6: All parenting because Trump loves walls, war parenting.

663
00:31:09,594 --> 00:31:12,674
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, war parenting. I acknowledged the feelery Brown, I

664
00:31:12,794 --> 00:31:14,234
Speaker 4: see you, here's the boundary.

665
00:31:14,274 --> 00:31:14,834
Speaker 1: Here's the wall.

666
00:31:15,154 --> 00:31:17,954
Speaker 4: This shows power of social media because I'm ingesting all

667
00:31:17,954 --> 00:31:21,274
Speaker 4: these messages and thinking, shit, I'm way too permissive in

668
00:31:21,274 --> 00:31:22,874
Speaker 4: the way that I parents. So it's kind of working

669
00:31:22,914 --> 00:31:25,434
Speaker 4: in a way. I'm like really examining. Do I need

670
00:31:25,474 --> 00:31:27,754
Speaker 4: to move into much more of that sweet spot, that

671
00:31:27,754 --> 00:31:30,194
Speaker 4: middle ground. I don't know, just interesting.

672
00:31:30,394 --> 00:31:34,194
Speaker 5: Maybe gentle parenting and faphone need to have a parenting baby,

673
00:31:34,274 --> 00:31:35,234
Speaker 5: and then that can be the.

674
00:31:35,154 --> 00:31:36,914
Speaker 2: Way that we all me to fall pregnant.

675
00:31:37,074 --> 00:31:38,394
Speaker 1: Yes, fall pregnant.

676
00:31:38,634 --> 00:31:42,914
Speaker 4: Please, all right, it's time to get helpful. This is Recommendations,

677
00:31:42,914 --> 00:31:44,394
Speaker 4: the part of the show where we bring you the

678
00:31:44,434 --> 00:31:46,994
Speaker 4: things that we're loving, sick and texting each other about.

679
00:31:47,674 --> 00:31:54,194
Speaker 4: Last week, Stacy's cake made of fruit was shared like crazy.

680
00:31:54,234 --> 00:31:56,834
Speaker 4: It was texted around like a newborn in a little

681
00:31:56,874 --> 00:31:59,314
Speaker 4: needed beanie, Like everyone just went crazy over it. So

682
00:31:59,434 --> 00:32:00,594
Speaker 4: what's it going to be this week?

683
00:32:00,954 --> 00:32:04,234
Speaker 5: Look, it's not as wonderful as that, but it is

684
00:32:04,274 --> 00:32:06,154
Speaker 5: easier to achieve than the fruitcake.

685
00:32:06,394 --> 00:32:09,874
Speaker 1: So hear me out on this. I'm gonna recommend.

686
00:32:09,434 --> 00:32:12,834
Speaker 5: You jump up and down fifty times. And that sounds

687
00:32:12,874 --> 00:32:14,794
Speaker 5: mean at this time of year. I know that we're

688
00:32:14,794 --> 00:32:18,234
Speaker 5: all very, very tired. But I saw this floating around

689
00:32:18,234 --> 00:32:19,914
Speaker 5: on my TikTok, and the first time I saw it,

690
00:32:19,954 --> 00:32:21,914
Speaker 5: I was like, how ridiculous? And the second time I

691
00:32:21,914 --> 00:32:23,994
Speaker 5: saw it, I was like, hmm, I wonder if it works.

692
00:32:24,474 --> 00:32:27,714
Speaker 5: There's this woman she's called just TV roomy. She doesn't

693
00:32:27,714 --> 00:32:30,194
Speaker 5: even have a name on there, and she documented herself

694
00:32:30,234 --> 00:32:32,794
Speaker 5: jumping up and down fifty times in the morning for

695
00:32:32,914 --> 00:32:35,034
Speaker 5: sixty days. Initially she said she was going to do

696
00:32:35,074 --> 00:32:38,354
Speaker 5: it for thirty. Now she's at sixty. She is like,

697
00:32:38,594 --> 00:32:40,674
Speaker 5: it has changed my life. I did this as a

698
00:32:40,674 --> 00:32:42,954
Speaker 5: piss take, and it has changed my life. You just

699
00:32:42,994 --> 00:32:45,914
Speaker 5: did little jumps, Like I'm not talking like scary box

700
00:32:45,954 --> 00:32:46,954
Speaker 5: jumps or anything like that.

701
00:32:47,034 --> 00:32:48,834
Speaker 1: Just little jumps. If you can do them.

702
00:32:49,114 --> 00:32:52,594
Speaker 5: It's meant to like drain your lymphatic system, improve your focus.

703
00:32:52,594 --> 00:32:54,474
Speaker 5: But she was saying all these other things happened she

704
00:32:54,514 --> 00:32:57,794
Speaker 5: didn't expect like that. She noticed her skin looked better

705
00:32:57,954 --> 00:33:00,794
Speaker 5: and that she was in a better mood generally, And so.

706
00:33:00,794 --> 00:33:01,754
Speaker 1: I started doing it.

707
00:33:01,874 --> 00:33:05,274
Speaker 5: I'm only four days in, so not a real test yet,

708
00:33:05,674 --> 00:33:07,954
Speaker 5: but I did feel better. Yeah, Like when I did it,

709
00:33:08,074 --> 00:33:09,834
Speaker 5: especially when you first get up in the morning, like

710
00:33:09,914 --> 00:33:12,874
Speaker 5: watch the pelvic floor because that's a bit tricky with that,

711
00:33:13,274 --> 00:33:15,314
Speaker 5: but just do little jumps and then I felt so

712
00:33:15,394 --> 00:33:15,834
Speaker 5: much better.

713
00:33:15,914 --> 00:33:16,594
Speaker 1: Like it's just a.

714
00:33:16,514 --> 00:33:19,354
Speaker 5: Bit of like silly joy and kind of if you're

715
00:33:19,394 --> 00:33:21,874
Speaker 5: able bodied, it's kind of just a reminder of what

716
00:33:21,874 --> 00:33:23,914
Speaker 5: your body can do. You do it while you're waiting

717
00:33:23,914 --> 00:33:25,714
Speaker 5: for the kettle to boil, do it with your kids,

718
00:33:25,754 --> 00:33:28,514
Speaker 5: like something like that. But it really does feel like, Okay,

719
00:33:28,554 --> 00:33:30,194
Speaker 5: I don't have time for any other movement.

720
00:33:30,834 --> 00:33:33,834
Speaker 1: This I can do. This is easy, takes ten seconds.

721
00:33:33,914 --> 00:33:37,514
Speaker 6: I'm going to adopt this because I'm feeling as I

722
00:33:37,554 --> 00:33:40,074
Speaker 6: age that when I wake up in the morning, I

723
00:33:40,114 --> 00:33:43,794
Speaker 6: can feel the quartersole all of a sudden, Yeah, just

724
00:33:43,834 --> 00:33:48,114
Speaker 6: flowing through my body, coursing through my veins. And it's

725
00:33:48,154 --> 00:33:50,314
Speaker 6: been a thing that started happening in my forties and

726
00:33:50,354 --> 00:33:51,714
Speaker 6: I need a way to counteract it.

727
00:33:51,914 --> 00:33:53,194
Speaker 2: And I feel like this could be it.

728
00:33:53,194 --> 00:33:54,794
Speaker 5: It really does it, And I felt kind of like

729
00:33:55,114 --> 00:33:57,274
Speaker 5: buzzy afterwards when I was sitting on the train on

730
00:33:57,314 --> 00:33:58,674
Speaker 5: the way to work, like I was like, I want

731
00:33:58,674 --> 00:34:00,754
Speaker 5: to keep moving, like I wanted to stand up again.

732
00:34:00,754 --> 00:34:03,714
Speaker 5: And that is not my regular feeling at all at

733
00:34:03,714 --> 00:34:07,434
Speaker 5: the moment. So, yeah, do some jumps if you can. Yeah,

734
00:34:07,674 --> 00:34:09,393
Speaker 5: I'm just going to do ten just right now. So

735
00:34:09,393 --> 00:34:11,553
Speaker 5: you reckon fifty in a row, fifteen a row. It's

736
00:34:11,634 --> 00:34:15,113
Speaker 5: so quick you could do it in like thirty seconds really.

737
00:34:14,873 --> 00:34:16,354
Speaker 2: And they are small little ones.

738
00:34:16,474 --> 00:34:18,514
Speaker 6: Yeah, because at first I was worried when we did

739
00:34:18,554 --> 00:34:20,354
Speaker 6: it before about my breasts.

740
00:34:20,714 --> 00:34:23,954
Speaker 5: Yes, yes, look, if you've been blessed with the bigger bosoms,

741
00:34:23,994 --> 00:34:25,114
Speaker 5: you might have to hold them.

742
00:34:25,434 --> 00:34:28,354
Speaker 1: But that's okay. It's over before you know it's over.

743
00:34:28,434 --> 00:34:29,194
Speaker 2: Before you know it.

744
00:34:29,434 --> 00:34:33,634
Speaker 5: Your knees will crack, your ankles will crack. It's fine, okay.

745
00:34:33,394 --> 00:34:35,953
Speaker 4: Mom, fifty in that time that you had that tiny

746
00:34:35,994 --> 00:34:36,674
Speaker 4: little chat.

747
00:34:36,594 --> 00:34:40,314
Speaker 5: Yeah, see it's good, right. What's yours? Amelia?

748
00:34:40,394 --> 00:34:42,594
Speaker 6: So mine has a little bit of a story. My

749
00:34:42,714 --> 00:34:47,354
Speaker 6: kids have been begging me to go camping, and I

750
00:34:47,434 --> 00:34:50,674
Speaker 6: think if you have listened to this show even once,

751
00:34:50,954 --> 00:34:53,993
Speaker 6: you probably know that that's not my sweet spot. Yeah,

752
00:34:54,074 --> 00:34:57,234
Speaker 6: it's not my comfort zone. But they were begging me

753
00:34:57,314 --> 00:35:00,314
Speaker 6: to do it. So we borrowed a tent from friends,

754
00:35:00,474 --> 00:35:04,594
Speaker 6: and Sydney's Centennial Park has this amazing program called Camping

755
00:35:04,634 --> 00:35:07,033
Speaker 6: one oh one where you can go and just try

756
00:35:07,274 --> 00:35:10,954
Speaker 6: camping overnight and they Incentennial pore and they cook you

757
00:35:10,994 --> 00:35:13,913
Speaker 6: a barbecue dinner and then there's a continental breakfast so

758
00:35:13,954 --> 00:35:16,354
Speaker 6: you don't have to worry about the food situation. And

759
00:35:16,434 --> 00:35:20,154
Speaker 6: I don't worry about the tent. But the Continental breakfast

760
00:35:20,194 --> 00:35:21,954
Speaker 6: is what I want to talk about today. Because the

761
00:35:22,034 --> 00:35:24,554
Speaker 6: camping itself, I will say I did not get a

762
00:35:24,554 --> 00:35:25,074
Speaker 6: great sleep.

763
00:35:25,114 --> 00:35:27,314
Speaker 2: It turns out birds make sounds all through the night.

764
00:35:27,434 --> 00:35:29,594
Speaker 6: I was led to believe that they made sounds close

765
00:35:29,634 --> 00:35:31,714
Speaker 6: to dawn, and it turns out that they're having little

766
00:35:31,794 --> 00:35:34,154
Speaker 6: chats in the middle of the night on each other, which,

767
00:35:34,274 --> 00:35:36,073
Speaker 6: you know, nature just keep it down.

768
00:35:37,274 --> 00:35:38,634
Speaker 2: Was white noise machine.

769
00:35:38,634 --> 00:35:42,714
Speaker 6: But woke up and eagerly set off for the Continental breakfast.

770
00:35:43,034 --> 00:35:47,993
Speaker 6: And the big hit of the Continental breakfast was Cordial. Now,

771
00:35:48,074 --> 00:35:51,954
Speaker 6: I am such a terrible parent that basically solo, like

772
00:35:51,994 --> 00:35:54,433
Speaker 6: a can of solo that's not a million miles from

773
00:35:54,594 --> 00:35:57,794
Speaker 6: what my children sometimes consume. Like we do love a

774
00:35:57,874 --> 00:36:01,674
Speaker 6: soft drink at times. But I realized that this staple

775
00:36:01,714 --> 00:36:03,994
Speaker 6: of my childhood has kind of gone away a little

776
00:36:03,994 --> 00:36:06,913
Speaker 6: bit because every kid at this Continental breakfast was like,

777
00:36:07,154 --> 00:36:08,794
Speaker 6: what is this alixture of the gods?

778
00:36:08,834 --> 00:36:10,594
Speaker 2: And We're like, it's cordial.

779
00:36:11,194 --> 00:36:14,194
Speaker 6: So now I've decided that I'm going to incorporate Cordial

780
00:36:14,194 --> 00:36:17,834
Speaker 6: into our everyday life. It's a spot of like retro fun.

781
00:36:18,154 --> 00:36:18,473
Speaker 2: You know.

782
00:36:18,714 --> 00:36:22,354
Speaker 5: I rediscovered Cordial about a year ago. With this weird

783
00:36:22,434 --> 00:36:24,954
Speaker 5: flavor which doesn't sound like it should work, but he's delicious.

784
00:36:24,954 --> 00:36:27,234
Speaker 1: Cloudy apple flavor cordial.

785
00:36:27,874 --> 00:36:30,274
Speaker 5: It's so good and you don't feel as bad as

786
00:36:30,314 --> 00:36:33,073
Speaker 5: if it's juice. Like there's water, it's so much water.

787
00:36:33,154 --> 00:36:36,354
Speaker 5: I put the water in water and it's fine. Solo, yeah,

788
00:36:36,554 --> 00:36:37,514
Speaker 5: no offense, solo.

789
00:36:37,674 --> 00:36:37,913
Speaker 6: Yeah.

790
00:36:37,954 --> 00:36:39,554
Speaker 1: I love this for you, definitely.

791
00:36:40,194 --> 00:36:42,393
Speaker 4: We're a big cordial fan, here are you?

792
00:36:42,834 --> 00:36:43,033
Speaker 1: Yeah?

793
00:36:43,034 --> 00:36:44,794
Speaker 4: And I have a cordial theory, I reckon I can

794
00:36:44,794 --> 00:36:47,354
Speaker 4: tell what kind of person you are based on the

795
00:36:47,354 --> 00:36:49,434
Speaker 4: flavor of cordial in your pantry or the type of

796
00:36:49,514 --> 00:36:50,194
Speaker 4: cordial you buy.

797
00:36:50,274 --> 00:36:51,314
Speaker 2: Well, what's cloudy apple?

798
00:36:51,434 --> 00:36:51,634
Speaker 6: Yeah?

799
00:36:51,834 --> 00:36:54,913
Speaker 1: What does cloudy apple say about me? It's a bit ni.

800
00:36:55,474 --> 00:37:01,913
Speaker 4: Yeah, of course, Stacy. I would have pegged you as

801
00:37:01,914 --> 00:37:02,834
Speaker 4: a fruit cup girl.

802
00:37:03,074 --> 00:37:04,114
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I would.

803
00:37:04,234 --> 00:37:05,954
Speaker 5: I would one hundred percent if you asked me to

804
00:37:05,954 --> 00:37:07,074
Speaker 5: pick one of the basics.

805
00:37:07,194 --> 00:37:08,913
Speaker 2: Okay, here's mine, lemon lime.

806
00:37:09,314 --> 00:37:11,314
Speaker 4: Okay. I wouldn't have paid you as lemon lime. I

807
00:37:11,314 --> 00:37:12,554
Speaker 4: would have paid you as red cordial.

808
00:37:13,314 --> 00:37:15,634
Speaker 2: That's actually offensive.

809
00:37:16,034 --> 00:37:16,954
Speaker 1: Red cordial.

810
00:37:17,314 --> 00:37:19,594
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think isn't that band in some states?

811
00:37:20,354 --> 00:37:22,794
Speaker 4: So here here's what I think. So fruit cup is

812
00:37:22,954 --> 00:37:26,874
Speaker 4: very eldest daughter energy, very type a You're a people pleaser.

813
00:37:27,314 --> 00:37:31,754
Speaker 4: You are reliable, You're very dependable, You're predictable. It's just

814
00:37:31,954 --> 00:37:35,234
Speaker 4: the real people pleaser of cordials. I think red cordial

815
00:37:35,474 --> 00:37:38,473
Speaker 4: is chaos merchant. You're the fun mum.

816
00:37:38,554 --> 00:37:40,514
Speaker 2: You're the kind of mum that's like I didn't.

817
00:37:40,674 --> 00:37:43,794
Speaker 4: Memories are important, don't worry about the mess. Let's make

818
00:37:43,834 --> 00:37:45,473
Speaker 4: a memory that feels.

819
00:37:45,194 --> 00:37:49,514
Speaker 6: Like Wow, I am so glad I'm conveying that to people,

820
00:37:50,194 --> 00:37:51,473
Speaker 6: because is that not the drew?

821
00:37:51,794 --> 00:37:52,834
Speaker 2: That is not the truth?

822
00:37:52,874 --> 00:37:54,994
Speaker 1: What about green? What's green cordial?

823
00:37:55,074 --> 00:37:59,194
Speaker 4: Okay, green cordial is you didn't choose cooler. You bought

824
00:37:59,194 --> 00:38:01,114
Speaker 4: it for your husband and he's the only one that

825
00:38:01,194 --> 00:38:02,913
Speaker 4: drinks it, and he drinks it at about an eighty

826
00:38:02,954 --> 00:38:07,433
Speaker 4: percent concentration level. So I don't know a single woman

827
00:38:07,434 --> 00:38:10,594
Speaker 4: that drinks cooler, do you No, it's.

828
00:38:10,114 --> 00:38:11,434
Speaker 1: Something off about the color.

829
00:38:14,034 --> 00:38:15,034
Speaker 2: What are you minds?

830
00:38:15,154 --> 00:38:18,473
Speaker 4: I'm lemon and freak cup. So lemon is you're a traditionalist.

831
00:38:18,794 --> 00:38:23,114
Speaker 4: You are, You're pretty practical. You enjoy the simple thing lawn.

832
00:38:23,634 --> 00:38:25,434
Speaker 4: You know your lawn, and you have a nice cold

833
00:38:25,514 --> 00:38:26,874
Speaker 4: lemon cordio afterwards.

834
00:38:27,154 --> 00:38:29,954
Speaker 5: And can I just say eighty percent concentration is the

835
00:38:29,994 --> 00:38:31,154
Speaker 5: correct concentration.

836
00:38:31,754 --> 00:38:33,914
Speaker 1: I know, if I'm really honest with myself.

837
00:38:34,594 --> 00:38:36,873
Speaker 4: What's your rack ones, Okay, I've got the book that

838
00:38:36,914 --> 00:38:39,033
Speaker 4: you need to read this summer. I'm so excited about

839
00:38:39,074 --> 00:38:44,194
Speaker 4: this hit me. It's called The Air Apparent by Rebecca Armitage.

840
00:38:44,274 --> 00:38:44,913
Speaker 1: Have you heard of this?

841
00:38:45,314 --> 00:38:49,114
Speaker 2: Oh my god? Is this Reese's Book Club pick for December?

842
00:38:49,434 --> 00:38:49,914
Speaker 6: Yes?

843
00:38:50,234 --> 00:38:51,514
Speaker 2: Yes, tell me?

844
00:38:52,794 --> 00:38:55,554
Speaker 4: Okay, So first thing to say, is it Rebecca Hormitage

845
00:38:55,634 --> 00:39:00,114
Speaker 4: is my friend. It is a book about a twenty

846
00:39:00,194 --> 00:39:04,194
Speaker 4: nine year old english woman who goes to Hobart and

847
00:39:04,354 --> 00:39:07,473
Speaker 4: is doing her medical residency and she falls in love.

848
00:39:08,354 --> 00:39:13,074
Speaker 4: Plot twist, she's actually a royal. Oh and what happens next?

849
00:39:13,114 --> 00:39:15,034
Speaker 4: And I just feel like this is the book that

850
00:39:15,074 --> 00:39:18,074
Speaker 4: has ignited reading again for me. I haven't been reading

851
00:39:18,114 --> 00:39:20,074
Speaker 4: for a long time. I'm like, I need a good

852
00:39:20,074 --> 00:39:23,234
Speaker 4: summer read. I can't put it down. It's been picked

853
00:39:23,274 --> 00:39:26,194
Speaker 4: up by Reese's Book Club. It's amazing an Australian author,

854
00:39:26,274 --> 00:39:27,513
Speaker 4: and love it great.

855
00:39:27,874 --> 00:39:29,274
Speaker 2: The air Pets sounds so good.

856
00:39:29,394 --> 00:39:32,234
Speaker 1: Is it sexy? Like? Is this smutty or is this

857
00:39:32,354 --> 00:39:33,114
Speaker 1: just romantic?

858
00:39:33,474 --> 00:39:37,314
Speaker 4: It's not smut It's a love story. Oh, it's very

859
00:39:37,594 --> 00:39:41,033
Speaker 4: beautifully written, very rich, very richly written. But no, it's

860
00:39:41,034 --> 00:39:43,314
Speaker 4: not kind of fantasy smut. Okay, is that what you

861
00:39:43,354 --> 00:39:44,514
Speaker 4: want from your summer reading?

862
00:39:44,514 --> 00:39:45,393
Speaker 5: No, not at all.

863
00:39:45,514 --> 00:39:46,514
Speaker 1: That's why I was asking.

864
00:39:46,594 --> 00:39:48,834
Speaker 5: I just wanted to know how sexy it's going to

865
00:39:48,914 --> 00:39:51,073
Speaker 5: be when she falls in love. But it sounds great.

866
00:39:51,114 --> 00:39:53,034
Speaker 5: I need a good book to get me out of

867
00:39:53,034 --> 00:39:56,953
Speaker 5: the slump I finished. Yeah, Sally Hepworth's Mad Mabel, and

868
00:39:56,994 --> 00:39:59,354
Speaker 5: now I've had like weeks of nothing because I loved

869
00:39:59,394 --> 00:40:02,194
Speaker 5: that book so much. You're a I know, I can't

870
00:40:02,234 --> 00:40:03,914
Speaker 5: find like I'm trying to find something that's going to

871
00:40:03,994 --> 00:40:05,433
Speaker 5: hit the same as that hit.

872
00:40:05,594 --> 00:40:06,554
Speaker 1: So this sounds great.

873
00:40:06,834 --> 00:40:09,314
Speaker 4: Yes, it's the Air Apparent Rebecca Amatage. And it's also

874
00:40:09,434 --> 00:40:11,873
Speaker 4: just at Big w for like eighteen race, which is

875
00:40:12,074 --> 00:40:14,634
Speaker 4: always just perfect icing on top, isn't it. You don't

876
00:40:14,634 --> 00:40:16,954
Speaker 4: have to go to special bookshop, not sponsored.

877
00:40:18,914 --> 00:40:19,274
Speaker 1: Okay.

878
00:40:19,394 --> 00:40:22,354
Speaker 4: Well, hey, thank you to the team that makes this happen.

879
00:40:22,874 --> 00:40:27,354
Speaker 4: You are the true gift of this show. Tessakotovic, Leoporgius,

880
00:40:27,474 --> 00:40:31,114
Speaker 4: Sashatannic and the group ep Ruth Divine. You are our

881
00:40:31,194 --> 00:40:34,314
Speaker 4: magnetic tiles and every week you make a beautiful, beautiful

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00:40:34,354 --> 00:40:37,074
Speaker 4: thing for everyone. So have a great week. We will

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00:40:37,114 --> 00:40:39,634
Speaker 4: be back in this speed next Saturday morning.

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00:40:40,074 --> 00:40:41,354
Speaker 2: Bye bye bye.

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00:40:44,234 --> 00:40:46,873
Speaker 4: MoMA Mea acknowledges the traditional owners of the land on

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Speaker 4: which we have recorded this podcast.