Speaker 1: You're listening to a Muma Mia podcast.
Speaker 2: Mama Me, I acknowledges the traditional owners of the land
Speaker 2: and waters that this podcast is recorded on.
Speaker 1: It's almost like I needed to shake off that energy.
Speaker 1: I needed that year of just feeling my emotions, feeling
Speaker 1: the anger of the frustration, and rebuilding because I was confident,
Speaker 1: you know, and so it really helped her rebuild myself.
Speaker 1: But then I thought, never again. I will rebuild my
Speaker 1: life to the point where I love it, to the
Speaker 1: point that if I never meet someone again, I genuinely
Speaker 1: know I'll be happy because I've created.
Speaker 2: This Hello and welcome to But are you Happy with Me?
Speaker 2: Claire Stevens. Our third season of the show ended a
Speaker 2: few weeks ago, and I'm excited to tell you that
Speaker 2: season four launches on the twelfth of September on Are
Speaker 2: You OK? Day with an absolute dream guest of mine.
Speaker 2: But I didn't want to wait that long to bring
Speaker 2: you a new conface, So I've got something very special today,
Speaker 2: a mid season episode with Alexis Fernandez Preakser, author and
Speaker 2: host of the podcast Do You Fucking Mind? Alexis describes
Speaker 2: her work as combining neuroscience, psychology, and tough love, and
Speaker 2: that's exactly what she does. If you've ever listened to
Speaker 2: her show or read her books, she gives mindset hacks
Speaker 2: and dissects friendship and boundaries and resentment and stress and
Speaker 2: rumination and willpower and all those components that go into
Speaker 2: building a happy life. It was because of that blend
Speaker 2: of science and warmth and common sense that I really
Speaker 2: wanted to speak to Alexis about happiness. I wanted to
Speaker 2: know her story, the person behind the helpful and informed advice,
Speaker 2: and I wanted her expertise. She talked to me about
Speaker 2: moving through heartbreak, reframing regret, make king friends as an adult,
Speaker 2: identifying and navigating narcissists, and the way optimism and pessimism
Speaker 2: entirely changed the way a person walks through the world.
Speaker 2: I got so much out of this conversation with Alexis,
Speaker 2: and I know you will too. Here's Alexis Fernandez preaks up.
Speaker 2: I want to start by asking, did you grow up
Speaker 2: in a happy family?
Speaker 1: Yes, yes I did. I grew up in and not
Speaker 1: even just my immediate family. I was really really lucky
Speaker 1: to have my cousins two blocks down. We were all
Speaker 1: so tight. Every single afternoon we were the four girls
Speaker 1: were either at our place or we were at my
Speaker 1: auntie and uncle's place, and so it was just such
Speaker 1: a tight The nine of us were so tight, so close.
Speaker 1: I had a really great, loving upbringing with this really
Speaker 1: tight family. So I was very, very, very very lucky
Speaker 1: in that sense, and to this day, like my cousins are,
Speaker 1: like my sisters.
Speaker 2: Do you think, looking back at your childhood, there was
Speaker 2: anything that was a challenge to happiness, like anything internal
Speaker 2: or external, or do you think generally you had a happy,
Speaker 2: positive disposition.
Speaker 1: I mean generally I had a happy, positive disposition, but
Speaker 1: I really struggled to make friends when I was little.
Speaker 1: I was very introverted as a kid, and one thing
Speaker 1: that I think maybe was a challenge, which in hindsight
Speaker 1: I look as a blessing. But my parents are immigrants,
Speaker 1: so my first language was Spanish, and I spoke Spanish
Speaker 1: as my first That was my mother tongue. Now English
Speaker 1: is more dominant because it's you know, but that was
Speaker 1: what we spoke at home, and so I learned English through,
Speaker 1: of course the TV being on and north that, so
Speaker 1: you know, kids pick it up in four to six weeks,
Speaker 1: but I really only started speaking English when I started
Speaker 1: school and I was very like, I was really really
Speaker 1: outgoing with my family. I was just so bold and
Speaker 1: I was always doing acting and you know, but when
Speaker 1: it came to school, especially in I was very I
Speaker 1: had one friend. It took me a while to even
Speaker 1: get that one friend. Then too, and then and then
Speaker 1: when we moved to Queensland, that was like another blow
Speaker 1: to that social side of me. But that almost was
Speaker 1: what I needed because it really forced me. It was
Speaker 1: like sink or swim. Now, it's like you've always struggled
Speaker 1: to make friends, Now you got to. So the first
Speaker 1: year was hard again I just had one friend.
Speaker 2: Again.
Speaker 1: I was repeating that same pattern of just But then
Speaker 1: in high school, I think that's where it really started
Speaker 1: to turn around, because you start to meet all these
Speaker 1: different people that come from different schools. When you get
Speaker 1: into high school, I started doing more acting, dancing, I
Speaker 1: was really putting myself out there and that really started
Speaker 1: to turn around for me. But yeah, I always struggled
Speaker 1: in that making friends as a kid.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's so that's probably surprising to people who listened
Speaker 2: to your podcast and who kind of know you was
Speaker 2: quite extroverted and bubbling and giving really good advice on
Speaker 2: a friendship. You are a podcast host and a best
Speaker 2: selling author and a personal trainer, and you have a
Speaker 2: master's a neuroscience.
Speaker 1: You're also a.
Speaker 2: Mindset coach and you have a new audiobook coming out
Speaker 2: called How to Chase Change Thirty Days to Master Your Mindset.
Speaker 2: What is a mindset coach and are there some bad ones?
Speaker 1: I think there's definitely bad mindset coaches. I mean, I
Speaker 1: can't think of any specific ones. I actually don't know
Speaker 1: that many personally. But you've got to look at your
Speaker 1: brain and your mind as very, very heavily intertwined. They're different,
Speaker 1: but they're very heavily LinkedIn you can't have one without
Speaker 1: the other. So I look at the brain as being
Speaker 1: it's the hardware of the computer, and the mind is
Speaker 1: the software of the computer. So with mindset, the beauty
Speaker 1: about the brain is that your thoughts can actually change
Speaker 1: how your brain is structured, how your brain is wired.
Speaker 1: Through behavior, you can change how dense your brain is
Speaker 1: as far as how much mass there is in your brain.
Speaker 1: You can actually stave off atrophy in the brain through
Speaker 1: actual exercises and also thoughts, and if you're learning more,
Speaker 1: if you're someone that's always trying new things, like I'm
Speaker 1: going to try the guitar, I'm going to try the
Speaker 1: Rubik's cube. I'm going to try You're actually growing your
Speaker 1: brain doing these things, which then staves off de generation.
Speaker 1: So you look at I can actually use my mind
Speaker 1: and my thoughts to steer my brain with the hardware
Speaker 1: in the direction that I want it to. And our
Speaker 1: brain is always, always, always evolving. We hear terms like neuroplasticity,
Speaker 1: But neuroplasticity I think we look at it as all good,
Speaker 1: but it's good or bad. You know, you can plastically
Speaker 1: change your brain into the negative by you know, if
Speaker 1: you have chronic stress, you're causing neuroplastic changes that are
Speaker 1: not helpful. But then you can do something called self
Speaker 1: directed neuroplasticity. And that's where mindset coach comes in because
Speaker 1: that is where you are directing your thoughts to actually
Speaker 1: change how your brain is wired. So I think that
Speaker 1: if you can understand the scientific basis of how the
Speaker 1: brain is wired and which areas of the brain communicate
Speaker 1: when you're thinking certain things or doing certain things, I
Speaker 1: think that's what makes a good mindset coach.
Speaker 2: And where do you think think manifestation sits within that.
Speaker 1: So I'm really big on manifestation, and I think that
Speaker 1: there's a lot of science to help back that. I
Speaker 1: think that you know when you hear the term, what
Speaker 1: you focus on expands in a more neuroscientific level. That
Speaker 1: is so true. I don't think we realize how biased
Speaker 1: our brains are. We are very selective with what we
Speaker 1: allow into our awareness subconsciously, so we think that we're
Speaker 1: not We think that we can look at something and
Speaker 1: not be biased, but we are so biased. So if
Speaker 1: you're somebody that is innately pessimistic, people are not friendly
Speaker 1: to you. Because you notice the unfriendly people, doors are
Speaker 1: not opening for you. Things are really difficult. It's me
Speaker 1: against the world. It's a fight. I'm fighting and fighting
Speaker 1: and fighting. It's a slog. It's a struggle. Don't trust anyone.
Speaker 1: And then because these are your ingrained beliefs, they are
Speaker 1: confirmed left, right and center, and you seek it out
Speaker 1: even if you don't want to. You do someone who's
Speaker 1: optimistic because says, oh my god, people are so friendly.
Speaker 1: Not that person just smiled at me. Oh oh, And
Speaker 1: then everyone's smiling at you. But you probably don't realize
Speaker 1: that your energy is a lot open. You're probably a
Speaker 1: lot warmer to people because of that. Then more people
Speaker 1: start smiling at you, then people introduce you to other people.
Speaker 1: It's because you are seeking. You see open doors everywhere.
Speaker 1: Two people could have the exact same day. An optimistic
Speaker 1: person is walking through all these doors. They're seeing the openings,
Speaker 1: they're seeing the opportunities, and the pessimistic person is saying,
Speaker 1: that was such a horrible day. Everyone was glaring at me.
Speaker 1: I just don't know what I'm doing wrong. And that
Speaker 1: just is just a glimpse of this idea of manifestation,
Speaker 1: this attraction and this like attracts like, and we are
Speaker 1: biased to look for what we've trained our brain to
Speaker 1: look for, whether we meant it or not. So I
Speaker 1: think it's not about blaming yourself saying I've cause this,
Speaker 1: but it's about just being aware of where am I
Speaker 1: at right now in the scale of do I attract
Speaker 1: or am I someone that's constantly repelling? And I feel
Speaker 1: like it's just an uphill battle.
Speaker 2: Can be quite cynical and quite anti anything woo woo,
Speaker 2: And obviously you're not woo woo. You have a bad
Speaker 2: around in science, And so sometimes when I hear the
Speaker 2: manifestation stuff, my war goes up and I'm like, no, no, no.
Speaker 2: But I remember a few years ago I wrote kind
Speaker 2: of a note to myself being like, this is what
Speaker 2: I want to do in the next few years. I
Speaker 2: wrote it down on a piece of paper. I forgot
Speaker 2: about it. I went and found it recently, and it's spooky.
Speaker 2: It's really freaky that the things that you write down
Speaker 2: you don't even know. Unconsciously you are working towards them,
Speaker 2: and you've put something out there and just kind of
Speaker 2: articulated what it is you want and you don't realize
Speaker 2: that just by almost putting it into the universe, I
Speaker 2: sound so woo woo, but it kind of ends up happening.
Speaker 2: Do you have an example of manifestation in your own life?
Speaker 1: Massively massively? Well, this is a funny one. So my
Speaker 1: partner I definitely manifested him and it was really interesting
Speaker 1: because it's the same thing. So I went through this.
Speaker 1: I was probably single for three years before I met Tyrone,
Speaker 1: and I was for the first year and a half
Speaker 1: scorned single woman, hated relationships. I was bitter, bitter, bitter,
Speaker 1: I've just been burnt. But then after that I started
Speaker 1: to soften. I did a lot of healing, and I
Speaker 1: got myself to a really happy place to the extent
Speaker 1: that I was genuinely open to welcoming love into my life.
Speaker 1: I was in a good place, didn't need it, but
Speaker 1: I thought that it would be nice. But I was
Speaker 1: still in that phase of like, but I'm really enjoying
Speaker 1: being single, so I'm open, but maybe in a little bit,
Speaker 1: it's fine. And my best friend, she said, I think
Speaker 1: she read or listened to a podcast where they say
Speaker 1: you need to write a list and get really specific
Speaker 1: of what that partner has to look like. So we
Speaker 1: sat down at a cafe and she's like, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: write my listener and I thought, okay, I'll just do
Speaker 1: it for fun. So we had our laptops out and
Speaker 1: I just typed out this list, and I didn't think
Speaker 1: much of it. Very recently, I was going through my
Speaker 1: hard drive and I was like, oh my god, I
Speaker 1: found this list. I wonder how close it is to
Speaker 1: Tyrone and I'm talking I had about twenty things on
Speaker 1: this list. I got so specific and I never revisited
Speaker 1: that list ever again. It was the one time every
Speaker 1: single thing on that lie except one thing.
Speaker 2: He ticks and what sort of things were they?
Speaker 1: So they were things like, I want somebody who I'm
Speaker 1: really close with his family. I want him to adore
Speaker 1: my family. I want him to be able to hang
Speaker 1: out with my friends when I'm not there. I want
Speaker 1: him to celebrate my wins as hard as I celebrate his.
Speaker 1: I want humor. I want a secure man, like secure
Speaker 1: a man. And I specifically wrote I want to travel
Speaker 1: with or without him and it never be an issue.
Speaker 1: And I've gone to Europe twice without him. And there
Speaker 1: was all these really specific things that I had learned
Speaker 1: through realizing what I didn't want another relationships. It was
Speaker 1: really controlling or insecure relationships. So I just it was
Speaker 1: all based around a feeling. And then I said, I want,
Speaker 1: you know, dark features, because I always lashed like the
Speaker 1: brown eye, brown hair, you know. And so I spoke
Speaker 1: about physically, and I spoke about mainly personality and emotional
Speaker 1: and what we would have together. And the only thing
Speaker 1: that he didn't take off on that list was one
Speaker 1: that actually is so insane magnificant is must be older
Speaker 1: than me, and he's younger. And now I look back,
Speaker 1: I'm like, well, that's probably why the universe of whatever.
Speaker 1: Didn't factor that it's important because it's actually so insignificant
Speaker 1: because emotional intelligence is what matters obviously. And yeah, so
Speaker 1: there's a prime example of one.
Speaker 2: You mentioned traveling on your own. Is that something that's
Speaker 2: been important to you and what have you learnt from
Speaker 2: those travels?
Speaker 1: Oh, it's a lot, a lot, a lot, and it's
Speaker 1: taught me so much. One big trip that I did,
Speaker 1: I actually, on a whim bought a one way ticket
Speaker 1: to Paris. This is not the time that I was
Speaker 1: actually really sad is I had time in between. And
Speaker 1: this is advice from my mum. Actually, one day I'd
Speaker 1: gone through a breakup with an actual nice person and
Speaker 1: I was devastated and he was just the loveliest guy
Speaker 1: and he ended it just like I just don't love
Speaker 1: you anymore. And I just could not couldn't fathom it.
Speaker 1: So I said to my mom, I'm good, I'm going
Speaker 1: to Europe. She's like, a, let's just listen. I'm all
Speaker 1: for you traveling. But if you buy a ticket and
Speaker 1: go right now, in the depths of your heartbreak, you're
Speaker 1: going to be sitting in a hotel room on the
Speaker 1: other side of the world. Alone and sad, and I
Speaker 1: was like, oh my god, I don't want that. So
Speaker 1: then I waited, and about a year later I did
Speaker 1: it because I was still heartbroken, but I could manage
Speaker 1: my emotions and I bought this one way ticket and
Speaker 1: I went and it was the best thing I ever did,
Speaker 1: by far for myself, because I threw myself in the
Speaker 1: deep end. I started teaching politis in Paris. I was
Speaker 1: I It forced me. I had to find I made
Speaker 1: French friends, not Australian It's like French people. I was like,
Speaker 1: this is unreal. It really forced me to create something
Speaker 1: for myself from scratch. And when you can do that,
Speaker 1: and it doesn't have to be on the other side
Speaker 1: of the world, but if you can, I highly encourage
Speaker 1: you because it was amazing. But that trip to me,
Speaker 1: that time that I spent in France working and socializing,
Speaker 1: I carry that in my heart all the time. It
Speaker 1: is such a big part of who I am now.
Speaker 1: It taught me so much and there were challenges. I
Speaker 1: cried when I was there, but overall, it was the
Speaker 1: best thing I've ever done. And I think people think
Speaker 1: it's going to be all, you know, sunshine and rainbows
Speaker 1: and it's not. It's challenging, but overcoming the challenges is
Speaker 1: the reward. That's what's really cool. When you get there
Speaker 1: and then you get your first client, then you get
Speaker 1: ten clients, and then you're like, oh my god, I
Speaker 1: can actually make a living now. And then you know,
Speaker 1: you find your first friend and then they invite you out.
Speaker 1: So it's all these little wins along the way, and
Speaker 1: you think I did that. I did all of that
Speaker 1: on my own accord, you know, off my own back.
Speaker 1: So that teaches you so much about how much you
Speaker 1: can rely on yourself. I think traveling, doing things alone especially,
Speaker 1: it teaches you that you can rely on yourself, which
Speaker 1: then makes you more equipped to jump into the deep
Speaker 1: end more often in your life, because I think life
Speaker 1: should always be about it's not about everything has to
Speaker 1: go well for me. I don't look at relationships now
Speaker 1: as like this will never, like this is forever. This
Speaker 1: is forever, even with Tyrone, who I adore, were engaged
Speaker 1: with getting married, like I love him. I don't look
Speaker 1: at this relationship as I will die if it ends.
Speaker 1: I hope it doesn't end, be really sad if it did.
Speaker 1: But I also have taught myself that I can bounce
Speaker 1: back that if the worst case scenario happens, I will
Speaker 1: be okay. You want to teach yourself that if bad
Speaker 1: things happen, you can bounce back. Not I've got to
Speaker 1: sell myself up so nothing bad happens, because if you
Speaker 1: set yourself up in that way, I can't go and
Speaker 1: do that thing alone. What if I fail? What if
Speaker 1: I don't get the job. I'm not going to go
Speaker 1: for that promotion. I'm not going to quit my job
Speaker 1: and travel. I'm not not not because if it doesn't fail,
Speaker 1: screw that. Instead think I'm going to do this, but
Speaker 1: I'm going to be so well equipped emotionally that if
Speaker 1: it doesn't work out, I'm going to be okay. I'll
Speaker 1: be okay. It will suck initially, yeah, but I will
Speaker 1: climb back up.
Speaker 2: And I've been through hard things before exactly, and I've
Speaker 2: been okay.
Speaker 1: And that's what the traveling taught me. That's what a
Speaker 1: lot of things taught me. It teaches you your own resilience.
Speaker 1: When you're aware of your own resilience, you're so much
Speaker 1: more likely to do harder things.
Speaker 2: When you've been working really hard and you're kind of
Speaker 2: stuck in that productivity cycle, and then you travel. What
Speaker 2: do you find that travel does to your I.
Speaker 1: Think it's actually really good to do that, because, especially
Speaker 1: if you're doing things throughout the day, it's very different.
Speaker 1: I think if you're going on a trip where all
Speaker 1: you do is relax, like you might be going somewhere
Speaker 1: tropical and you're relaxing, you might be going round and
Speaker 1: around and around, being like I need to do something.
Speaker 1: I'm not productive. But if you're traveling in the sense
Speaker 1: where you're actively doing things every day, you're meeting people
Speaker 1: or whatever, I think it's it's one of the best
Speaker 1: resets you can do because it actually shifts your focus.
Speaker 1: And like I was speaking of before, what you focus
Speaker 1: on expands sometimes work and being busy, this idea of hustling,
Speaker 1: it takes up all your awareness and it's like a
Speaker 1: huge chunk of your awareness. And then you got to sleep.
Speaker 1: Then you wake up and that's true, and so then
Speaker 1: this idea, I think traveling really helps you kind of
Speaker 1: zoom out and you're able to be like, there's so
Speaker 1: much more to life, so much more to life, and
Speaker 1: this is not the be all, end all, And if
Speaker 1: this doesn't work out for me, I'm actually still me.
Speaker 1: I'm actually still a complete human being, and we lose
Speaker 1: touch of that so often when we're sombit in something.
Speaker 1: The same goes for heartbreak, the same goes for anything
Speaker 1: where you're so immersed in it you can't pull yourself out.
Speaker 1: The moment you have the opportunity to look at it
Speaker 1: from a different angle, you think, Wow, I'm acting like
Speaker 1: this is my whole life, but it's not. It's not.
Speaker 1: There's so much to enjoy, to be here for, to
Speaker 1: live for, and here I am acting like this is it.
Speaker 1: So I think if you're someone who's so embedded in
Speaker 1: your work, honestly find a way to, you know, snap
Speaker 1: out of it for a bit, or take yourself out
Speaker 1: of that zone.
Speaker 2: I think I have always found that the older you get,
Speaker 2: the faster time goes, because proportionally a week is a
Speaker 2: shorter period of time when you're older. Yeah, and so
Speaker 2: I have felt that time is in fast forward, And
Speaker 2: I think that happens when you're working really hard, even
Speaker 2: just in terms of your brain. When we're doing the
Speaker 2: same thing over and over again, time does speed up,
Speaker 2: whereas when you're overseas or you're in a new environment,
Speaker 2: it slows down, because if exactly what you say about
Speaker 2: awareness that if you're in a new city, a day
Speaker 2: in a different city feels like a month in your routine. Yes,
Speaker 2: and I just find it's such a reset when you
Speaker 2: come back. Do you find that in terms of creativity energy,
Speaker 2: that you're really recharged?
Speaker 1: Definitely? Definitely, And I think it's very true what you're
Speaker 1: saying from like a brain perspective. When you are almost
Speaker 1: kind of doing something not necessarily autopilot, but when you're
Speaker 1: sowing the zone and time flies, that's because we're not
Speaker 1: really really present in the moment. Especially with work, we're
Speaker 1: doing a thousand things, so time goes really fast. For example,
Speaker 1: when you are put on hold, you're thinking about how
Speaker 1: you're being put on hold, and time just does not pass,
Speaker 1: and you're like, this is the longest minutes of my life.
Speaker 1: Same as like when you're holding a planket's like when
Speaker 1: will this end? A microwave minute is the longest mode
Speaker 1: in the world. So it's because we're hyper aware of
Speaker 1: what's happening in that moment. When you travel, your awareness
Speaker 1: of what's happening, you're more likely to be present with
Speaker 1: new experience and not just traveling but new experiences or
Speaker 1: really fulfilling experiences. And Humanan actually talks about this about
Speaker 1: the frame rate of what you're taking in, and you
Speaker 1: actually take in more frames quote unquote when you're enjoying
Speaker 1: it or whatever, but you're aware, or when you're bored
Speaker 1: and you're aware, you're taking more from So it feels
Speaker 1: longer versus when you're kind of just doing something you know,
Speaker 1: like working and it's just you're on autopilot and getting
Speaker 1: it done, it feels shorter. So I think that it's
Speaker 1: really important with your day to day life, so life
Speaker 1: doesn't fly by. You want to be doing things where
Speaker 1: you're really present and really enjoying every single day. It's
Speaker 1: not saying don't work, but after work, what are you doing?
Speaker 1: What are you doing to be really present in the
Speaker 1: moment and have like this is my time where I'm
Speaker 1: speaking to my partner, I'm going for a walk with
Speaker 1: my best friend or whatever it is that you do.
Speaker 1: But you don't want to come home and then line
Speaker 1: on the couch and scroll for two hours and then
Speaker 1: go to bed.
Speaker 2: And so when you started the podcast, so many people
Speaker 2: want to start one. Yes, so many people have an
Speaker 2: idea and they really want to do it, and they
Speaker 2: don't know where to start, or they start one and
Speaker 2: find it's really difficult, and you know, it might grow
Speaker 2: slower than they want. What did it look like for
Speaker 2: you to start it, and what was your benchmark for success?
Speaker 1: So I didn't know that much about podcasting. The podcast
Speaker 1: that I was listening to at the time were True Crime.
Speaker 1: I was thinking I should do either a YouTube channel
Speaker 1: or a podcast talking about neuroscience and psychology because I
Speaker 1: was halfway through my Masters at the time, and so
Speaker 1: I thought, I'm desperate to share this knowledge. I'm obsessed
Speaker 1: with what I'm learning. So when I started it, the
Speaker 1: intention behind it was a to just have an outlet
Speaker 1: to talk about what I loved and b I knew
Speaker 1: that teaching helps you consolidate information, so while I was studying,
Speaker 1: I thought, this is a good way for me to
Speaker 1: teach what I'm learning and identify the gaps in my knowledge.
Speaker 1: And then I thought, this is just a fun little
Speaker 1: exercise to do. But it picked up really quickly and
Speaker 1: it was all word of mouth. And I think the
Speaker 1: reason this particular podcast, my podcast did so well is
Speaker 1: because we all have a brain. It's all very relatable.
Speaker 1: We all want to improve aspects of our mind and
Speaker 1: our brain and our life. I speak about the neuroscience
Speaker 1: of heartbreak, I speak about you know, self esteem, and
Speaker 1: then I speak about things like ketamine on the brain.
Speaker 1: Like I talk about all sorts of things. But I
Speaker 1: think what makes it really impactful is that people see
Speaker 1: themselves in the episode, and when you see yourself in something,
Speaker 1: you want to share it. So it grew through word
Speaker 1: of mouth because I think a lot of people are like,
Speaker 1: that's me, and then they share it being like, as listen,
Speaker 1: this is me. And so I think if your audience
Speaker 1: is sharing your work, that's just the best thing for you.
Speaker 2: You get a lot of messages from people, and you
Speaker 2: a lot of your episodes are sort of based on
Speaker 2: almost this symbiotic relationship with your audience where they'll ask
Speaker 2: for what they're interested in, or you'll put it out
Speaker 2: there that you want to do an episode on something,
Speaker 2: and you get a lot from your audience. Is there
Speaker 2: anything you're noticing about trends you keep getting questions about
Speaker 2: and that's sort of a common experience of people in
Speaker 2: terms of happiness.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, so I would say there's two. I mean,
Speaker 1: there's quite a few But the two main ones that
Speaker 1: especially lately is friendships as adults. A quality friendships. That's
Speaker 1: a huge one. There's a lot of people that stay
Speaker 1: friends with people from their past just because, and they
Speaker 1: talk about these friendships to me, they write in their
Speaker 1: stories and I look at it and I think, I
Speaker 1: would never keep that person in my life like ever.
Speaker 1: And people are so scared to let go of a
Speaker 1: toxic friendship because they'd rather a toxic friendship than be alone.
Speaker 1: People would rather suffer than be alone. And so my
Speaker 1: thing is I'm always trying to teach people how to
Speaker 1: create the bare minimum standard, and that's your relationship with yourself,
Speaker 1: because if I'm happy being alone, that's the minimum standard.
Speaker 1: And I'm not going to accept this trash of you know,
Speaker 1: how people are treating me and all of that. So
Speaker 1: that's kind of one of the big ones. Another really
Speaker 1: big topic is people feeling like they're either always working
Speaker 1: so hard but not doing enough, like I'm not doing enough,
Speaker 1: I feel like I need to be doing more, and
Speaker 1: just not feeling fulfilled. They have this sense of I'm hustling.
Speaker 1: I'm hustling. It's this let's glorify being busy, but I
Speaker 1: still feel like I'm not doing enough. And I think
Speaker 1: that comes down to you could work every hour of
Speaker 1: the day and you're not going to feel like you're enough.
Speaker 1: I think feeling like you're enough actually comes from slowing down.
Speaker 1: It's so hard to accept that, but when you're able
Speaker 1: to slow down, it's so cliche, but it's like stop
Speaker 1: and smell the roses. It's like, how can you appreciate
Speaker 1: the small things in life? Because even when you achieve
Speaker 1: the highest success that you thought you would achieve, that
Speaker 1: win is not what makes you happy. It's the tiny
Speaker 1: things every single day that makes somebody happy. You can
Speaker 1: feel a sense of accomplishment, you can feel pride, but
Speaker 1: happiness comes from the day to day. Yeah.
Speaker 2: And productivity culture, I think is something I've really observed,
Speaker 2: and the guilt people feel when they're not being productive,
Speaker 2: and you have a line. I think I've heard you
Speaker 2: say a couple of times about like working on yourself
Speaker 2: is productive. I've also listened to a lot of what
Speaker 2: you've said about friendship. What have you found about those
Speaker 2: conversations about friendship? Do you find that people are changing
Speaker 2: their behavior?
Speaker 1: I think slowly, but the ones that do it's always
Speaker 1: good it's always good. I think people are so scared,
Speaker 1: and I understand why, especially if you're not used to it.
Speaker 1: It's this nobody wants to be rejected, and especially when
Speaker 1: it comes to friendships, it's almost people are almost more
Speaker 1: afraid of being rejected by a potential friend than a
Speaker 1: potential lover. I think with a lover, you think ultimate.
Speaker 1: A lot of people think, oh, it's a numbers game,
Speaker 1: it's fine, But when it comes to friendships, people freeze up.
Speaker 1: They get awkward. Oh my god, what if this? Imagine
Speaker 1: if they just reject me as a friend, what does
Speaker 1: that mean? So they're really stand offish to make a
Speaker 1: new friend. But the moment people put themselves out there
Speaker 1: and try, the amount of people that then message me
Speaker 1: and say I did this and it worked. It actually
Speaker 1: wasn't that hard. I commented on someone's outfit at a
Speaker 1: bar and we ended up chatting for an hour and
Speaker 1: then we swapped numbers. But it's so true. It's people
Speaker 1: need to change their mentality. You're not flawed. The reason
Speaker 1: you've got less friends as an adult is because you
Speaker 1: used to be in an environment where you just had
Speaker 1: people around you by default that had to be there
Speaker 1: every single day, so you just gravitate to those people,
Speaker 1: and then it's not bad that you drift apart when
Speaker 1: you're out of that environment because you realize that you're
Speaker 1: actually very different in many other ways, and that's also fine.
Speaker 1: But then you have to change your mentality around making
Speaker 1: adult relationships. Just like you've got to put yourself out
Speaker 1: there in the dating scene, you have to put yourself
Speaker 1: out there, and the effort once you found that friend
Speaker 1: is again very different. In high school, you just rocked up.
Speaker 1: That was the effort. You couldn't not because you had
Speaker 1: to go. So here I have to put in my
Speaker 1: effort with my friends. Can I expect the same because
Speaker 1: we have a standard that we hold each other too,
Speaker 1: and that's what makes a good friend.
Speaker 2: More of my conversation with Alexis Fernandez preaksa after this
Speaker 2: short break, and you also talk a lot about boundaries
Speaker 2: and setting a bit of a fence around your house
Speaker 2: that doesn't demand anything from other people, but you're just
Speaker 2: saying this is what I will and won't accept. What
Speaker 2: has your journey been with boundaries through your life? Because
Speaker 2: is that something you learn from experience, from letting people
Speaker 2: cross boundaries that you then learn how to have one.
Speaker 1: Definitely that came from well, I had two really unhealthy relationships,
Speaker 1: but one I was quite young, and I think I
Speaker 1: just had no idea what was going on. In hindsight,
Speaker 1: it was narcissistic. It was very emotionally abusive, but at
Speaker 1: the time I just thought, oh, that was crazy because
Speaker 1: I was nineteen. I just didn't under stand. And the
Speaker 1: other one was the relationship before Tyrone, where I was
Speaker 1: like single for nearly three years after that because I
Speaker 1: was just so burnt by it. And that was again, like,
Speaker 1: that was really awful emotional abuse. Narcissist text book, And
Speaker 1: I know people throw the word around narcissists, but firstly,
Speaker 1: I think there's more narcissist than people realize because they're
Speaker 1: not out there getting diagnosed, So how do we know
Speaker 1: how many there are? And secondly, when you have an
Speaker 1: experience with a full blown narcissist, it's so clear. But
Speaker 1: that was just you're so controlled. Before you know it,
Speaker 1: you've changed who you are. You feel like you're walking
Speaker 1: on eggshells. You will say to them you are right,
Speaker 1: even though you know they're not, just so you don't
Speaker 1: have another screaming match. You notice yourself just give away
Speaker 1: everything that's you just to try and keep the peace
Speaker 1: and you then unfortunately, your respect for yourself and your
Speaker 1: love for yourself goes down. So even when you really
Speaker 1: identify this is just not healthy anymore, you hold them
Speaker 1: in such high esteem that you think I'll never get
Speaker 1: someone this good because I'm not good enough to get
Speaker 1: someone else. So I can't leave because they're this greater
Speaker 1: person than me. So then you feel stuck. It's just awful.
Speaker 1: And I mean, I would never say that I'm you know,
Speaker 1: it's not like, oh, I'm so happy that that happened
Speaker 1: to me. But in hindsight, it taught me so many,
Speaker 1: so many lessons about myself, and leaving that relationship was incredible.
Speaker 1: Like what I learned from the journey out of that
Speaker 1: relationship was really cool. It almost served for me to
Speaker 1: have that really jaded year after being like fuck this,
Speaker 1: fuck oh sorry, I'm sorry. Now you're allowed to sway.
Speaker 1: I was like this, and I was just so like oh,
Speaker 1: but it's almost like I needed to shake off that energy.
Speaker 1: I needed that year of feeling my emotions, feeling the
Speaker 1: anger of the frustration and rebuilding because I was confident,
Speaker 1: you know, and so It really helped her rebuild myself.
Speaker 1: But then I thought, never again. I will rebuild my
Speaker 1: life to the point where I love it, to the
Speaker 1: point that if I never meet someone again, I genuinely
Speaker 1: know I'll be happy because I've created this. It was
Speaker 1: awful and hard, and you see a lot of people
Speaker 1: in these relationships and they will justify staying. And when
Speaker 1: you look at it from the outside, especially when you've
Speaker 1: been there, you just think, oh, like, when when will
Speaker 1: you leave? You know you can only just be there
Speaker 1: to help.
Speaker 2: And when you're in a relationship like that, what kind
Speaker 2: of behaviors stuck out as narcissistic in hindsight? Because a
Speaker 2: lot of You're right, a lot of people just shove
Speaker 2: that label on anyone who's a bit mean to them
Speaker 2: that they don't get along with. But what do you
Speaker 2: think sticks out as a narcissistic behavior in a relationship?
Speaker 1: Yeah, so narcissistic definitely. Isn't they just love themselves? Someone
Speaker 1: who's upped themselves and loves themselves is not a narcissist
Speaker 1: if you actually love yourself. Narcissists don't love themselves. They
Speaker 1: love this false idea of who they want people to perceive.
Speaker 1: Them to be. They create this image and they're in
Speaker 1: love with the image, but they don't like themselves. But
Speaker 1: one main way feature is the initial love bombing at
Speaker 1: the start. That is a hallmark thing. And it's not
Speaker 1: to say that if someone's really, really, really nice it's
Speaker 1: a red flag, but this is what they do at
Speaker 1: the start. They will do things for you that almost
Speaker 1: you can't repay them for They want you to be
Speaker 1: in debt to them, so they want to do like
Speaker 1: favors that you just couldn't repay, or they're really financially
Speaker 1: generous to you, or they always pick you up and
Speaker 1: drop you off and do everything for you. They'll get
Speaker 1: you to move in you don't need to pay rent,
Speaker 1: So then eventually you start accepting all these acts of
Speaker 1: quote unquote generosity, and then they get you to a
Speaker 1: point where you need them and then bang, they turn
Speaker 1: around in a very short amount of time. So you'll
Speaker 1: see people moving in really quickly and just leaning on
Speaker 1: them really quickly, and then they'll turn around and they've
Speaker 1: got leverage. Then they'll test you, so everything will be perfect.
Speaker 1: Then they'll do something to shock you. They'll say something
Speaker 1: quite mean, or they'll do something quite mean, or they'll
Speaker 1: react in a way that's not normal based on the
Speaker 1: last three months of them being really nice, and so
Speaker 1: because it's been so incredible, your guard is down and
Speaker 1: you don't defend yourself as you normally would. You think,
Speaker 1: oh my god, like this is the perfect relationship. They
Speaker 1: might and instantly you think they must have had a
Speaker 1: really hard day. I'll just let it go. Oh my god,
Speaker 1: oh my god.
Speaker 2: No.
Speaker 1: Then it gets worse and worse, and you're scrambling to
Speaker 1: bring it back to that honeymoon three months where it
Speaker 1: was so perfect. But what you don't realize is that
Speaker 1: that was the trap. It will never go back to that.
Speaker 1: And then they start manipulating, manipulating. Then they give you
Speaker 1: glimpses of the good times, a glimpse here, because they
Speaker 1: want it to be this rollercoaster of reliance on them emotionally.
Speaker 1: And then they do things like well they are blatantly
Speaker 1: gased like you. You're having a conversation and they will
Speaker 1: just outright say you lie. You never said that, and
Speaker 1: you're so sure that you did. But because they do
Speaker 1: it so often, you start to doubt yourself. And then
Speaker 1: when you start to question yourself, it is game over
Speaker 1: because that's when they're in your head. And you can
Speaker 1: never reason with a narcissist ever, ever. Ever, they're not
Speaker 1: there to understand you. They never seek to understand you.
Speaker 1: They seek to control. All they want is power. So
Speaker 1: if you look at it from that perspective, the only
Speaker 1: solution is to step away. Walk away.
Speaker 2: That's such a good way of framing it, and I've
Speaker 2: heard that from a lot of experts in the field.
Speaker 2: I asked this question to all my guests, and I'm
Speaker 2: particularly interested to hear your answer. As a neuroscientist, and
Speaker 2: in the context of relationships, is there a time the
Speaker 2: world told you you'd be happy but you weren't.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think so. Well, Firstly, I think a lot
Speaker 1: of people think that a relationship is going to make
Speaker 1: them happy. I think that's the biggest mistake you can
Speaker 1: make telling yourself that. I think that in a healthy relationship,
Speaker 1: you contribute to each other's happy life. But a person
Speaker 1: can't make you happy. And then when you enter a
Speaker 1: relationship and they on paper tick all the boxes, and
Speaker 1: then this is the bad thing. You know, you then
Speaker 1: make other people think that you're happy because you don't
Speaker 1: want them to see the cracks in the relationship, and
Speaker 1: so often I remember when in these relationships, I would
Speaker 1: put on more of a facade that I was happy
Speaker 1: and want to believe it myself because I didn't want
Speaker 1: people worried about me. I thought, oh, no, I can
Speaker 1: deal with it. But my parents wouldn't be able to
Speaker 1: deal with it if they knew how horrible he was
Speaker 1: to be behind closed doors, they'd be devastated because I've
Speaker 1: got such a good relationship with my family, and so
Speaker 1: I would then even be and I'd try and you know,
Speaker 1: or you know, soon after the breakup, I went overseas,
Speaker 1: and again I was really lonely and sad. And everyone
Speaker 1: wants to go overseas, everyone wants to travel, and again
Speaker 1: I was just pretending I was just so happy, but
Speaker 1: I was crying every night, you know, so so many
Speaker 1: times where I thought, well, this is what everyone says
Speaker 1: will make you happy, the relationship or doing this big
Speaker 1: trip overseas. I've since done great trips and sash I'm
Speaker 1: genuinely was happy, but like you know, sometimes where it's
Speaker 1: so fresh and you're in so much pain, but you
Speaker 1: just don't want other people to know that you're suffering,
Speaker 1: so you to protect them. You pretend that you're happy.
Speaker 2: And I think that can be a little bit of
Speaker 2: shame in being in a situation like that, and you
Speaker 2: start to blame yourself and then think people are gonna
Speaker 2: judge me if they know that I'm still in this relationship,
Speaker 2: and they're going to think there's something wrong with me,
Speaker 2: and it isolates you even further. On your podcast, you've
Speaker 2: talked about the neuroscience of breakups, and you've talked about
Speaker 2: breakups quite a bit your book about Self Love, there
Speaker 2: are parts of that that are about breakups and how
Speaker 2: to kind of rebuild yourself. When you had the bad
Speaker 2: breakup and were then single for three years, what did
Speaker 2: that kind of heartbreak look like afterwards?
Speaker 1: Well, there was the initial you know, like devastation. It
Speaker 1: was over. It was you know, that shock, and I
Speaker 1: remember being so sad. And this is another really good
Speaker 1: thing for me. I was so sad. My parents live
Speaker 1: in Brisbane and they flew down. I went and stayed
Speaker 1: at my auntie and uncles. It was myself, my cousins,
Speaker 1: my auntie and un call, my parents and for like
Speaker 1: three days, everyone just kind of rallied around me. We
Speaker 1: cooked meals, we watched movies. The whole family was together,
Speaker 1: and I feel like that was a really healing time
Speaker 1: because what I loved about my family is that I
Speaker 1: then came to realize that a lot of them did
Speaker 1: see a lot of issues. But you can't really tell
Speaker 1: someone when they're in that relationship. You know, you just
Speaker 1: they try, but really you're not there to listen when
Speaker 1: you're in that And no one ever ever ever said oh,
Speaker 1: we knew and I told you so, never you know,
Speaker 1: so it was always just we're here for you, We're
Speaker 1: here to support you. And I think that if ever
Speaker 1: they're supporting someone who's going through something, you don't need
Speaker 1: to be the hero at the moment and say oh
Speaker 1: I knew that they would talk. Well, that achieves nothing.
Speaker 1: You just make the person feel stupid. So I think
Speaker 1: it was really cool to have this three days, not
Speaker 1: on social media and nothing. So I think you need
Speaker 1: when you go through that heartbreak, you need your healing grieving.
Speaker 1: It's really important to feel your feelings. I think a
Speaker 1: lot of people think, oh, well, if I just think
Speaker 1: happy thoughts and no, but you have to process. You
Speaker 1: have to and you're not designed to be happy all
Speaker 1: the time, but to live a happy life. You have
Speaker 1: to go through the peaks and troughs. You have to
Speaker 1: feel all your feelings, and that makes you ultimately happy
Speaker 1: because you can adjust how you deal with situations. I
Speaker 1: think if you avoid the troughs, you're never really going
Speaker 1: to be happy. So that was one thing, and then
Speaker 1: after that then I thought, Okay, I'm still sad obviously,
Speaker 1: so I need to find something that is bigger than
Speaker 1: me that's going to pull me out of this, or
Speaker 1: something that gives me a reason to get up every day.
Speaker 1: And that's when I started The Masters, and I just
Speaker 1: loved it so much, and it was really nice that
Speaker 1: even through the heartbreak, I had something that I was
Speaker 1: working towards that I loved it. So something that I
Speaker 1: would recommend if you're going through a really, really tough
Speaker 1: time is try and to introduce something new into your
Speaker 1: life that's got nothing to do with your Exit's almost
Speaker 1: like a new chapter that means so much to you
Speaker 1: and you do it just for you. I think that's
Speaker 1: the first step of really showing yourself love again.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think sometimes it can almost be about
Speaker 2: like crafting a new arm of your identity, like I'm
Speaker 2: actually I'm still me this is who I am, and
Speaker 2: you're discovering more about yourself when you're doing that new
Speaker 2: thing and kind of leaning into the things that you're
Speaker 2: most passionate about. Yeah, I think that's something that people
Speaker 2: find in the wake of a breakup makes such a difference, massively, massively.
Speaker 2: In your podcast, so you've talked about breakups and friendships
Speaker 2: and emotional vampires, and you've talked about a lot of
Speaker 2: these themes that are really relevant to your audience. Have
Speaker 2: you ever spoken about something and regretted it, or spoken
Speaker 2: about something and had feedback from people where you thought, oh,
Speaker 2: that's actually not how I meant for that to land.
Speaker 1: Luckily not Actually no, And I think the reason for
Speaker 1: that is that most of the things that I speak about,
Speaker 1: I will always look at it from a lens of
Speaker 1: especially when it comes to some So this is the
Speaker 1: beauty of what I started. We had to really learn
Speaker 1: how to analyze studies and pull things apart, and so
Speaker 1: your lens, even when you're not talking about a scientific paper,
Speaker 1: your lens when you discuss a topic is very much
Speaker 1: like how could it be viewed from the other side.
Speaker 1: I speak about it from the position of how you're
Speaker 1: dealing with someone else. But I always make people flip
Speaker 1: the lens and say are you this to someone else?
Speaker 1: Because it's very easy to say this is a toxic
Speaker 1: relationship and for you to listen to the ten things
Speaker 1: I've listed and say, yep, that's my partner toxic, toxic, toxic,
Speaker 1: without realizing that you do five of those things, you know.
Speaker 1: So a lot of the podcast is how often can
Speaker 1: you flip the lens and can you look at what
Speaker 1: I'm talking about here and apply it to yourself. It's
Speaker 1: easy to identify what's annoying in your parents, but do
Speaker 1: you do the same to them? You know? So a
Speaker 1: lot of it comes to do with just asking yourself
Speaker 1: a question. Rarely I talk about black and white, and
Speaker 1: science is rarely black and white. It takes a long
Speaker 1: time for something to become a law.
Speaker 2: How do the people around you respond to your city sucess?
Speaker 2: So you've got friends that you will have had for
Speaker 2: a long long time. Do you feel like people ever
Speaker 2: lean in when things are really positive and shiny from
Speaker 2: the outside, And do you think people get competitive with you? Like,
Speaker 2: how do you kind of find that your personal relationships
Speaker 2: go with you having a public profile and having something
Speaker 2: really successful that you're known for.
Speaker 1: Honestly, and I'm very, very very lucky to say this,
Speaker 1: but the friends that I have, they are just the
Speaker 1: biggest cheerleaders for each other's success. Like we're the kind
Speaker 1: of friends that will speak so highly off each other
Speaker 1: when they're not there. And my friends have done so
Speaker 1: much in you know, mentioning my name in a room
Speaker 1: full of opportunities, even when I'm succeeding and they're like,
Speaker 1: you should get you should speak to you know, So
Speaker 1: I feel like that harbors more of the same and
Speaker 1: we do more for each other. Obviously, my family's so
Speaker 1: like excited and proud and they love it. But even
Speaker 1: with friends there, I've just been very fortunate. And of
Speaker 1: course you've got to be selective with your friends as well.
Speaker 1: But the friends that I have now in my life,
Speaker 1: I couldn't be happier. I couldn't be happier with them.
Speaker 1: I've never felt just not even a scaic of competition
Speaker 1: from them, which is amazing.
Speaker 2: You talk about kind of boundaries with friendships and how
Speaker 2: you teach people how to treat you, What kind of
Speaker 2: boundaries do you have with friends? So how you said
Speaker 2: you know, you've got to kind of pick your friends.
Speaker 2: Well too, what kind of boundaries do you have where
Speaker 2: if somebody did something, you'd think, Okay, that cross the boundary.
Speaker 1: This isn't what I need in my life. Yeah, totally.
Speaker 1: So a lot of the things that people talk about,
Speaker 1: you know, with their issues with their friends, I always say, okay, first, okay,
Speaker 1: number one, you have to identify what is a good friend?
Speaker 1: What would I And often it's a lot of the
Speaker 1: time it's kind of you want to see what you
Speaker 1: do for them reciprocated for most people. So you've got
Speaker 1: to identify what does that look like. And obviously I
Speaker 1: don't have any issues with my friends now, but in
Speaker 1: the past with other people that I've been friends with,
Speaker 1: certain things. For example, if I found out that my
Speaker 1: best friend was talking behind my back, I'd get upset,
Speaker 1: but I wouldn't instantly cut them out. What I would
Speaker 1: say is, what were you talking about behind my back?
Speaker 1: Because let's say that I was acting like the fool
Speaker 1: and she was debriefing with someone else, being like, yeah,
Speaker 1: alexis really did that was like inappropriate her behavior? I did?
Speaker 1: I would have to eat that because I don't think
Speaker 1: my friends have to agree with me on everything. I
Speaker 1: don't believe that your friends have to have your back
Speaker 1: even when you're being inappropriate. I do not agree with that.
Speaker 1: I think you can have a really good friendship where
Speaker 1: you can pull each other up. That is actually what
Speaker 1: makes a good friendship, where you can say I actually
Speaker 1: don't agree with what you did there. Love you, but
Speaker 1: I'm not going to have your back there because that
Speaker 1: was not okay. Ye. But if I found out that
Speaker 1: my friend was saying, oh my god, I can't believe
Speaker 1: she's wearing that, and she you know, if she was
Speaker 1: attacking my character, then I would have a problem with that.
Speaker 1: So I think, trust me, I'm not going to love
Speaker 1: any one talking about me behind my back. But there's
Speaker 1: times where I'm like, okay, I have to eat that.
Speaker 1: I have to accept that. And then there's times where
Speaker 1: you can say, okay, this is not really a friend.
Speaker 1: That's not something a friend does. Why are they trying
Speaker 1: to bring me down unnecessarily with other people? And see
Speaker 1: if they agree that's what I think is inappropriate. When
Speaker 1: they try and pit others against you, that's something that
Speaker 1: I would not stand for at all, And I wouldn't
Speaker 1: even need to do much about it. I would just
Speaker 1: distance myself from that person. It doesn't need to be
Speaker 1: this big song and dance. You can just say, Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm aware of this person's character. I don't need to
Speaker 1: be a part of that. You don't have to end
Speaker 1: the relationship. You just think you've uninvited yourself from being
Speaker 1: in my inner circle. And that's okay.
Speaker 2: And I think that comes from a baseline level of
Speaker 2: self esteem and self worth where you think, actually, no,
Speaker 2: I'm worth doing that and keeping myself in a happy
Speaker 2: place where I'm not affected. That's right other people's behavior.
Speaker 2: How do you deal with failure? And I say failure
Speaker 2: in inverted commas because I don't mean that it's actually
Speaker 2: failing at something. I mean those experiences where something doesn't
Speaker 2: go right and you learn from it. Do you have
Speaker 2: any examples of that and how you have overcome it?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean there's a few, Like career wise, for sure. Look,
Speaker 1: one of the best things to help you deal with
Speaker 1: something when you know you make a mistake career wise,
Speaker 1: there was a fork in the road and there was
Speaker 1: two options to take, and you thought, okay, well this
Speaker 1: is going to be the better one. And then you
Speaker 1: look back and you think, well, that was a big mistake.
Speaker 1: I should have gone the other way. That's happened to
Speaker 1: me a couple of times, and some of them were
Speaker 1: big mistakes, and I look back, especially financially, and you think,
Speaker 1: oh my god, I don't want to think about what
Speaker 1: it could have looked like if I'd gone the other way.
Speaker 1: But one of the key things that I always bring
Speaker 1: it back to is you have to remind yourself that
Speaker 1: with what I knew at the time, I was confident
Speaker 1: in that decision at the time. Hindsight's all well and good,
Speaker 1: but I think the ut this idea of failure. I
Speaker 1: kind of link failure to do I regret it, because
Speaker 1: if I regret it, then that's good. Something can be
Speaker 1: learnt from that. Regret last for not that long in
Speaker 1: my mind, because if you just regret and you live
Speaker 1: with regret, that's quite unhealthy and it erodes at you.
Speaker 1: But when you can identify regret, you say, why do
Speaker 1: I regret it? It's because I had power over the
Speaker 1: situation and I did something that was against what my
Speaker 1: instincts were at the time. Because you can't really regret
Speaker 1: something that you thought was the right thing in the moment.
Speaker 1: I can't say I regret dating that horrible person, because
Speaker 1: I obviously entered that relationship thinking it was good. I
Speaker 1: can't regret really that decision unless at the time I
Speaker 1: went against my instincts and I went the other way.
Speaker 1: But when you have that failure and it doesn't work
Speaker 1: out and you have these feelings of regret, I like
Speaker 1: to think, Okay, this is good. This is a lesson.
Speaker 1: How do I make sure that this feeling doesn't arise again.
Speaker 1: I'm going to put this to good use, because if
Speaker 1: I can't make regret my teacher, then it's a waste.
Speaker 1: But if I can look at it and say, okay,
Speaker 1: I know how it feels like, So next time I'm
Speaker 1: at a crossroads, how am I going to use this
Speaker 1: as a lesson? So you can always turn something into
Speaker 1: a lesson, and it's okay to think, wow, I really
Speaker 1: messed up there. That was a joke, Like I'm so annoyed,
Speaker 1: have the feeling, feel the frustration, but then think, Okay,
Speaker 1: what has this taught me? How will this make me
Speaker 1: wiser in the future. How can I be a better
Speaker 1: business person or a better partner. Let's say you cheated
Speaker 1: on your partner and they were the best thing that
Speaker 1: ever happened to you, you got to say, well, there's
Speaker 1: a reason I cheated. You know something was off. But
Speaker 1: maybe what can I learn from this? I can learn
Speaker 1: to be a better partner. I can learn to put
Speaker 1: my pride on the side and genuinely apologize. I can
Speaker 1: learn to be the person who's in the wrong. I
Speaker 1: can learn what it feels like to not be forgiven
Speaker 1: and have to forgive myself through being a better person.
Speaker 1: So there's many, many, many things that you can learn
Speaker 1: through regret, even when you stuff up massively.
Speaker 2: More of my conversation with Alexis Fernandez preaksa after this
Speaker 2: short break, you have, even from childhood, had this positive mindset,
Speaker 2: and you have all the logic and all the scientific
Speaker 2: backing of how to live a happy life. Even with
Speaker 2: all the resources you have, what would you say is
Speaker 2: your current biggest challenge to happiness in your life.
Speaker 1: One thing that really always I have to keep at
Speaker 1: bay is feeling like I'm not doing enough and then
Speaker 1: feeling like, oh was that day a waste? Because and
Speaker 1: this is what I teach as well, and it's something
Speaker 1: that I feel, and you've just got to be consciously
Speaker 1: aware of it and think Okay, put the deals into
Speaker 1: practice and then it helps. But one thing is that
Speaker 1: I will often feel like I'm behind the eight ball
Speaker 1: with my work and with what I'm doing. And I
Speaker 1: look at if I look at a short period of time,
Speaker 1: it's really easy to say I haven't been as productive
Speaker 1: as I could have been. I could have done that,
Speaker 1: I could have done this. But then if I look
Speaker 1: at the last four years, I'm really proud of myself.
Speaker 1: I think just the last because like in the last
Speaker 1: four or five years, you've done a lot, and I
Speaker 1: think we are so unrealistic. And this is something Tony
Speaker 1: Robins says. Actually, he says, you overestimate what you can
Speaker 1: do in a year, but you underestimate what you can
Speaker 1: do in ten. The timelines we put on ourselves are
Speaker 1: sometimes so unnecessary. We are so hard on ourselves. But
Speaker 1: if you zoom out, stretch it out, you think you've
Speaker 1: come a really long way, You've done a lot. And
Speaker 1: that's one for me, one of the best ways to
Speaker 1: kind of counteract that thought'd be a bit kinder to myself,
Speaker 1: a bit more gentle. And then, of course, when you're
Speaker 1: feeling that way, I also remind myself, okay, what are
Speaker 1: my values, because work is only just one of them.
Speaker 1: You also had a really great time with your cousins today.
Speaker 1: That's so important to your happiness. You also had such
Speaker 1: a great morning with your dog. You also meditated, and
Speaker 1: then you feel okay, actually I have ticked off all
Speaker 1: these things that make me me, and then you feel better.
Speaker 2: I think that's that idea of the productivity and not
Speaker 2: feeling like you're doing enough. I think also, I had
Speaker 2: this conversation recently that sometimes you feel the most like
Speaker 2: that when you're actually in the midst of something. So
Speaker 2: when you're actually working on the project, you beat yourself up,
Speaker 2: I'm not doing anything. What should I be doing? What
Speaker 2: should I be doing? And then you're like, hold on,
Speaker 2: it's just because the fruits of my labor haven't bloomed yet.
Speaker 1: Like I've got to.
Speaker 2: Actually be patient and do the best I can in
Speaker 2: the moment, and I'll be surprised by what it looks like.
Speaker 1: That's right. And people who are trying to start a
Speaker 1: business and whatever, they'll put in so many hours and
Speaker 1: still feel like they're not doing enough because they might
Speaker 1: not have launched, they might not be making the money
Speaker 1: that they thought they'd be making at that point. So
Speaker 1: it's got nothing to do with productivity. It's just this
Speaker 1: idea that we have that external success is correlated with effort,
Speaker 1: and it's not the case because you could put all
Speaker 1: the effort in the world and it just doesn't succeed.
Speaker 1: And then that can't be the marker of are you
Speaker 1: good enough or not.
Speaker 2: When you look at your future and picture yourself as
Speaker 2: an old woman looking back at your life, what do
Speaker 2: you think you would wanted to have happened in order
Speaker 2: to have lived a happy life.
Speaker 1: I would love to carry on kind of this. Firstly personally,
Speaker 1: this like really close family legacy that my family's always had.
Speaker 1: I think of all like my four grandparents they've all
Speaker 1: passed away now, but oh, like it was just like
Speaker 1: so nice when the whole family would get together. And
Speaker 1: when I'm old, I want that we were all just
Speaker 1: so happy together and it's just like I can still remember,
Speaker 1: like what the sounds of my grandparents laughed when we're
Speaker 1: all together. That is like family wise, I want that legacy,
Speaker 1: So that personally is huge. And then as far as
Speaker 1: professionally for me, I mean the fact that I can
Speaker 1: help change someone's life by helping them change the relationship
Speaker 1: with themselves. If I can have the opportunity to continue
Speaker 1: doing what I'm doing, more books, more of the podcast,
Speaker 1: and then it could translate in other ways that I'm
Speaker 1: not even aware of yet what that could look like
Speaker 1: in ten twenty years time. But if I could still
Speaker 1: be doing that kind of work well into my seventies,
Speaker 1: I'd be so happy. I'd be so happy.
Speaker 2: Would the people in your life think that you're happy
Speaker 2: right now, like the people the people who.
Speaker 1: Know your best? Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 2: And are you happy?
Speaker 1: Yeah, Oh my god, very happy, very happy? And it
Speaker 1: is I think it's just you know, when you finally
Speaker 1: get to a point where you can look at all
Speaker 1: the relationships in your life and think, I'm so confident
Speaker 1: that every single person here has my best interest at
Speaker 1: heart and I have theirs as well, that already just
Speaker 1: puts you so at ease. You feel comfortable, you feel safe,
Speaker 1: you feel confident to be able to go out and
Speaker 1: do things that you want to do. Connection is huge,
Speaker 1: It's a huge part of your happiness. And if you've
Speaker 1: got bad people in your life, you're better off starting
Speaker 1: from scratch, starting off alone, then staying with those bad people.
Speaker 1: Like there's no question about that. So I think that
Speaker 1: now more than ever, you know, my family can just
Speaker 1: look at me and say, you are the happiest you've
Speaker 1: ever been.
Speaker 2: Do you think from your relationship with your audience that
Speaker 2: there is almost like a loneliness epidemic or there is
Speaker 2: like this failure of connection in a way that you
Speaker 2: talk about growing up and that really close family environment.
Speaker 2: There are a lot of people who don't have that.
Speaker 1: You don't have that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, do you feel like we're getting further away.
Speaker 1: From Yes, I do. I do, And I think that
Speaker 1: at the same time that we're getting further away from it,
Speaker 1: you're seeing pockets of where it really works and why
Speaker 1: it does so well. So I talk about, for example, CrossFit.
Speaker 1: Why I think CrossFit is so successful, I personally don't
Speaker 1: do it, but why I think it's so successful is because,
Speaker 1: on top of the fact that it's a worker that
Speaker 1: people enjoy, it is very community centered. And I think
Speaker 1: that is the base of the success of CrossFit. When
Speaker 1: people go to a CrossFit gym, they find a family
Speaker 1: and people want community more than anything else, And people
Speaker 1: say we're more connected than never. No, we're not. It's
Speaker 1: a different kind of connection just because we've got email,
Speaker 1: we're not connected. I can just email you instead of
Speaker 1: sending you a letter. That's not the same. So we've
Speaker 1: got to look at it as if you look at
Speaker 1: legitimate communities where people are happy. So one thing we
Speaker 1: did at UNI was these longevity studies. Well I personally
Speaker 1: didn't do it, but my lecturer was very heavily involved
Speaker 1: in doing, you know, studying centenarians, especially within Australia, people
Speaker 1: that are older than a hundred And what made the
Speaker 1: really healthy old people so happy is they all had
Speaker 1: a community. They all had you know, they would all
Speaker 1: play cards every day together, or they still worked and
Speaker 1: then they would go and play that weird botchy ball thing.
Speaker 1: You know, they're just randomly involved in random activities with
Speaker 1: their friends and family is important, but you need a community.
Speaker 1: You need your friends because, especially when you're old, you
Speaker 1: don't want people visiting you because the grandkids should visit
Speaker 1: the You want people who you talk to about stuff
Speaker 1: that's relevant to you. I'm saying that you need to
Speaker 1: create a strong base of friends where you are a
Speaker 1: relevant player in the game. You know, where you're all relevant.
Speaker 1: So these old people that were still really sound of
Speaker 1: mind past the age of one hundred. They all had
Speaker 1: close friendships. They felt like they contributed to their community.
Speaker 1: They felt useful. And if you feel useful, if you
Speaker 1: feel that you are a part of something bigger than
Speaker 1: just you, that's where you feel connected and that's where
Speaker 1: you feel happy. So I think it's so important that
Speaker 1: we need to find our community in person in person,
Speaker 1: and you might not vibe of these people immediately, but
Speaker 1: you might meet an acquaintance you get along with, and
Speaker 1: then they meet and then eventually you're like, I actually
Speaker 1: have a really cool community here. But you have to
Speaker 1: put in the effort because the alternative is bleak. Feeling
Speaker 1: detached from connection is one of the hardest things to
Speaker 1: go through.
Speaker 2: Do you think some people misunderstand boundaries in a way
Speaker 2: that actually sets them up for living more isolated lives? Like,
Speaker 2: I think the way you talk about boundaries is very
Speaker 2: much being honest and upfront in a way that ultimately
Speaker 2: connects you with people. But I think sometimes people can
Speaker 2: look around and think, you know, that person's negative, that
Speaker 2: person irritates me. Sometimes I don't want any of them.
Speaker 2: Do you find that from people contacting you?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, I think some people think it's boundaries. I've
Speaker 1: created my list of boundaries, and then you know, I
Speaker 1: now have no friends. And the thing is, you've got
Speaker 1: to be really good at managing your expectations of people
Speaker 1: because we're all human. No one's perfect, and safe to
Speaker 1: say we ourselves are not perfect. For sure. We all
Speaker 1: come flawed and that's just part of the human experience.
Speaker 1: There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. But you've got
Speaker 1: to be aware that you know, when you interact with people,
Speaker 1: your friends, there's gonna have things that grind your gears.
Speaker 1: If you say, this person's.
Speaker 3: Always late, I'm so annoyed, or I've got a friend
Speaker 3: and she always cancels on me. Is this is it
Speaker 3: bad if I end the friendship? And I said, well,
Speaker 3: what does the friendship provide you? I've personally got a
Speaker 3: friend and she will cancel nine out of ten times.
Speaker 3: Of ten times, the one time that we hang out,
Speaker 3: out of those ten, we.
Speaker 1: Have the best time. Yeah, the best time. So then
Speaker 1: I one day I used to get so annoyed about it,
Speaker 1: but then I thought, I can't affought to lose her.
Speaker 1: She's such a good time. I really have so much
Speaker 1: fun with her. I mean tears of laughter every time
Speaker 1: I see her. So why don't I just manage my expectations?
Speaker 1: Because I could say my boundary is that no one's
Speaker 1: got and then cut her out. I could do that,
Speaker 1: but I'm like, what a loss that would be? So
Speaker 1: she's a flake. I've now managed my expectations. I understand
Speaker 1: she's a flake. I'm not going to rely on her
Speaker 1: like i'd rely on my best friend. I can make
Speaker 1: that clear because if I was to say, well, I'm
Speaker 1: relying on you, I'm setting myself up for disappointment because
Speaker 1: she's shown me through a pattern of behavior what she's like.
Speaker 1: It's my mistake to expect something else from her. So
Speaker 1: if I say, okay, she's probably going to flake. So
Speaker 1: I'll keep the window open, but I'll have an alternative
Speaker 1: plan that if she flakes, then it's not a waste,
Speaker 1: so I can do something in the area. I can whatever.
Speaker 1: And so that's what I do now, and then when
Speaker 1: we hang out, we have a ball and then when
Speaker 1: she flakes, I'm like, I saw that. It's fine. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And I've maintained a great friendship with her. She's not
Speaker 1: one of my best friends, but we have. It's awesome,
Speaker 1: and we've been friends for ten years. It's a case
Speaker 1: by case basis as well. You manage your expectations based
Speaker 1: on a pattern of behavior, based on their character and
Speaker 1: what they've shown you. And I think that when you
Speaker 1: do that, you can become so much happier. Things don't
Speaker 1: affect you as much. Don't try and control other people
Speaker 1: because you're never going to be able to anyway control
Speaker 1: how you react to certain things. Be a bit more
Speaker 1: carefree about it. It's not the end of the world.
Speaker 1: And then these little quirks end up being just quirks
Speaker 1: and not this is a deal breaker. And then you're
Speaker 1: cutting everyone out, left, right and center because they did
Speaker 1: one thing that you wouldn't do. But people aren't in
Speaker 1: your head. What offends you might not offend them. For them,
Speaker 1: maybe flaking is not a big deal, but for you
Speaker 1: it is. So you've got to always look at it like,
Speaker 1: there's very few things that are deal breakers where I'll
Speaker 1: cut someone out forever, very few things, you know, and
Speaker 1: you've got to understand what those non negotiables are for
Speaker 1: you individually. But apart from that, everything can be managed.
Speaker 2: I think I love that. I think it's really important
Speaker 2: given that we know that connection is probably the most
Speaker 2: important part of achieving happiness. Thank you so much for
Speaker 2: your time today. I really appreciate it. It was a
Speaker 2: great chat.
Speaker 1: Thank you. I loved that.
Speaker 2: Honestly, I got so much more from that conversation than
Speaker 2: I expected. I think you could hear at the beginning
Speaker 2: that anything that sounds slightly.
Speaker 1: Woo wo gets me nervous.
Speaker 2: But what Alexis says about manifestation and our mindset tangibly
Speaker 2: affecting the world we build for ourselves is very true.
Speaker 2: I thought a lot about that idea afterwards, because probably
Speaker 2: one of my biggest challenges is that I feel like
Speaker 2: I can be quite a negative person, and it undoubtedly
Speaker 2: changes the way I see everything in my life and
Speaker 2: probably becomes self fulfilling. I'm so glad Alexis shared so
Speaker 2: much about her own life and experiences. She's full of energy,
Speaker 2: and she's the kind of person who you know would
Speaker 2: be a really good friend and supportive person to have
Speaker 2: around you. I literally want to set her advice on
Speaker 2: boundaries as my alarm, so I listen to it at
Speaker 2: the beginning of every single day. I've also been thinking
Speaker 2: a lot about travel and what it does to our brains,
Speaker 2: and I'm so Glad Alexis confirmed it. There's something profoundly
Speaker 2: rejuvenating about travel, and I'm personally never happier than when
Speaker 2: I'm traveling. I think it's because it demands the eb
Speaker 2: present and probably also reminds us how small we are
Speaker 2: in the scheme of things, which is ultimately quite liberating.
Speaker 2: I love learning more about the science of happiness because
Speaker 2: every time I do it, it confirms something that I
Speaker 2: feel in my gut, which is that the world lies
Speaker 2: to us about happiness. Happiness isn't simple. It's a habit
Speaker 2: and a practice, and it's something we don't learn enough about.
Speaker 2: In just a few weeks, I'll be bringing you season
Speaker 2: four of But Are You Happy, and I cannot wait
Speaker 2: for you to hear these conversations. There is so much
Speaker 2: vulnerability in this next season, but also really profound lessons.
Speaker 2: Lessons in failure, lessons in coping, lessons in how to
Speaker 2: live a deeper, more fulfilling, and hopefully happier life. You're
Speaker 2: going to hear from people like Amy Shark, Missy Higgins,
Speaker 2: Steph Tisdall, Harry Garside, and so many more in the meantime.
Speaker 2: Off the back of this episode, I implore you to
Speaker 2: go break up with an arcsist and put yourself out
Speaker 2: there and make a new friend. Let me know how
Speaker 2: it goes. The executive producer of But Are You Happy
Speaker 2: is Niama Brown. Our producer is Tarlie Blackman. Our audio
Speaker 2: producer is Tom Lyon. I'm Clare Stevens and I'll be
Speaker 2: back in your ears again very soon